text:
Friday, January 25, 2008
WVU should've seen it coming, but was Rodriguez all about the money?
According to emails obtained by the Associated Press, before the 2007 season even started, Coach Rod and his agent were seeking a promised "culture change" at West Virginia and a shake-up at the highest levels of the Mountaineer athletic department.
The emails, obtained via a Freedom of Information request, revealed the relationship between the school and its coach got so bad that by mid-November, R2's agent, Mike Brown, was threatening to take his client somewhere else, mentioning possible openings at Texas A&M and Florida State (FSU? Really? Uh, did Bobby know about this?).
The AP story linked above states that, over a five month period as the relationship disintegrated, Brown was trying to get his client more more operational and marketing control over the football program and fighting over money Rodriguez helped raise through a booster organization he founded. But here's the real doozy: Brown also complained about interference in the program from West Virginia governor Joe Manchin!
Gee, you mean West Virginia's top elected official didn't have bigger issues to worry about? Yeah, hey, Gov, really, your state is in great shape. Focus on football. Good idea. Can you even imagine Jennifer Granholm getting involved with Michigan athletics? Answer: no.
So maybe WVU's little "We have no idea why Coach Rod suddenly left" whine to anybody who will listen isn't quite true.
On the flip side, judging from the emails, Rodriguez's agent seemed overly concerned with squeezing every last dollar of potential revenue out of WVU because, in his words, "We both agree there is millions in revenue not being realized. Those revenues over time will allow WVU to remain competitive for Rich's services."
Boy, never heard that shit coming out of Michigan when Carr was coach. And to threaten his school, his alma mater, like that - and make no mistake, that's a threat - the year after he just signed a big increase after the 'Bama dance he did the previous season, sounds sleazy. Like it's just about the coinage (and don't say "the agent did it, not Rich." Coach Rod knew. If not, he needs to fire his agent asap).
Furthermore, the AP story states, "Brown had been pressing WVU to act on new moneymaking ventures such as allowing advertising on the walls at Mountaineer Field and letting Rodriguez have his own paid-subscription Web site. The e-mails indicate WVU was proceeding slowly, researching legal and NCAA issues after learning of a controversy involving the Web site of Texas A&M coach Dennis Franchione."
Now, maybe it's just me, but I'd rather my head football coach stay focused on x's and o's and not becoming a fucking blogger. I want a guy trying to come up with a great defensive gameplan to shut down Ohio State rather than spending time trying to come up with funny Photoshopped pictures of Jim TresseLL in order to get a Deadspin link. For cryin' out loud, Rich, we'll give a weekly guest column here on the MZone if you're that hard up to have your own Beer Bong Friday post and be big time bloggers like Benny and me.
I dunno, folks. This story is starting to irritate me from all sides.
On the one hand, WVU hasn't been honest by acting like the surprised dude running around saying, "I have no idea why she broke up with me. I never saw it coming" after they'd been fighting forever. On the other hand, having your agent bitching to the administration that they haven't put Jiffy Lube ads up in the student endzone isn't the sort of coach most of us envisioned at Michigan.
Ed. Note: Is there anything people can't get about a college football coach under the Freedom of Information Act? Want to see all 6,000 text messages Houston Nutt sent to some hot reporter over three days? File a Freedom of Information Act request. Want to see how many times Rich Rodriguez checked his AOL account? Freedom of Information request.
I bet I could get a detailed listing of Lloyd Carr's bowl movements if I made an FOIA request.
I'm just thankful FOIA requests can't be made for our records here at the MZone. Although I swear all that time spent on RedTube.com was simply to search for other ASU cheerleaders who may have, uh...strayed.
UPDATE: Brian at MGoBlog has some other info on all this but closes his post by saying it's just a circus now and, unless something big breaks, he's not covering it. We might do the same here...unless of course we can think of a funny Photoshopped pic to go along with the news, then all bets are off.
65 comments:
- Crabapple Buck said...
The more that comes out, from either side, the less likely the chance of this ending well. UM will regret hiring this guy. He is only about himself. From the tOSU view, it is bad because without a decent UM, the rivalry suffers in the national perspective and makes the Big 10/11 weaker. One thing that has come of this is the appreciation you will have for Lloyd Carr. He may have to come back on an interim basis at some point if this gets too far out of hand.
- January 24, 2008 7:37 AM
- jblaze1 said...
Let's just fire RR now!
If you believe that statement for a second, you probably are 20+ years into retirement and want "the good old days" back.
College football is a business and if money does not come in from "non-traditional" sources, then either taxes must be raised, tuition must be raised, or the school does without. Booster money only goes so far in a program (and likely WVU doesn't have the same level as M or OSU).
Do discussing ads in the stadium mean that it will look like an pro stadium (with billboards, stadium names, branded everything) mean that RR is a greedy man? He did retain most of his assistants (and gave them a raise, over 40K more then average for Lloyd's guys). He installed a new weight room ASAP. From reports, he's traveling across country to get recruits. Isn't that to be admired?
Normally, I agree with you guys, but this time hanging RR from some emails and hearsay is just plain wrong!
Go Blue and Go RR!
- January 24, 2008 7:50 AM
- TitleIX said...
Don't need to FOIA all the shit we write here.
Privacy is merely an illusion.....
R2 wasn't the one who published all this laundry btw. Someone went digging for it. Behind the scenes conversations with one's employer doesn't necessarily make one a scoundrel.
Afterall, Tommy Amaker lost his job because he wasn't available to the media....
What's the difference between Jimmy Brandstatter's TV show Michigan Replay and a coach's content controlled website??
Only the medium, imho, as both are a venue for visibility, 'inside' looks, and fodder for the fans at the trough of 'transparency'.
oh--and for Yost---hurry and change the "bowl" vs. "bowEl" faux pas before sru gets ahold of it ;-)
- January 24, 2008 8:06 AM
- Frankly, Scarlett said...
Doesn't this back and forth all sound like something out of an 80's Molly Ringwald locker room scene? Can the drama stop now so the coaches can get on with coaching their respective teams?
- January 24, 2008 9:08 AM
- Z said...
All these e-mails make Mike Brown and RR look worse than WVU. If I was a University Administrator I wouldn't want a single client of Mike Brown on my staff. Who lets an agent dictate the culture of the athletic department of a university? RR had a chance to hammer these "issues" out with WVU when he signed his contract in December of 2006 (that was supposedly supposed to keep him at WVU until 2014). This is a case of someone wanting out and looking for every little excuse to leave and then threatening with the Texas A&M and FSU jobs in November? I understand the Michigan fans circling the wagons around Rich. He is your coach now and you feel that you have to stand behind him. I just ask that every UM fan just think for one moment if the situation was reversed. I have a feeling that most of you would feel the same way the WVU fans feel now.
- January 24, 2008 9:41 AM
- phillip said...
Mike Brown... just, wow.
In my current job, I often work with an agent who seems like a similar guy. Lots of one-line e-mails from the blackberry that amount to veiled threats, or statements of fact that I probably already know / don't need to hear again.
That type of stuff gets guys bad reputations. Thing is, the client sort of knows about it, but probably not fully, and perhaps if he did, wouldn't retain said agent. Wonder how much RR knew about MB's dealings.
- January 24, 2008 9:54 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Sorry, but I think you're off on this one.
First, it's easy to say "focus on x's & o's" when you already turn a profit/have more money than you know what to do w/. When you don't have that much money, it takes on a different perspective.
R2 passed on a couple million more when he turned down Bama. He was promised these side deals as a way to bridge the gap. Having been promised these opportunities, why wouldn't he want to follow up on them?
WVU promised him the sun & the moon to stay for millions less. Then they were slow delivering. When the next chance came along, he jumped on it.
WVU reneged on their deal (I didn't say that- their own alumni said that), R2 was pissed, and they knew it.
Everything since is just so much spin.
Anyone else notice how quick tosu fans are to predict "doom" @ every turn? They're scared. That says everything you need to know.
- January 24, 2008 10:41 AM
- Lane & Alicia's PhotoBlog said...
the only doom we're afraid of is UM becoming non-relevant on the national scene.
that's bad for everyone of us - believe that!
- January 24, 2008 11:07 AM
- Feelin' Blue said...
There was a great article before the 2007 season talking about how Michigan was a "program with a heart." I want the team to win, and I especially the recent team to win because I liked Lloyd Carr and the players. And it's a real shame that they never beat OSU. The point is that I don't believe in winning at all costs. Sure, Lloyd was hesitant to bench Manningham at certain crucial points and lost his passion for the game, but it was the team itself that you wanted to win rather than just your team, if that makes any sense. Win for the players and the coach, and not just the fans and the school. That's mainly why the bowl win over Florida was so great, especially since Lloyd and the Pope are such opposites.
- January 24, 2008 11:12 AM
- WingRG said...
a 3-4 record against WV main rival (Pitt), a program that's been down for years. Yeah, we're shaking in our little spaceboots. LOL
- January 24, 2008 11:16 AM
- Nathan said...
"First, it's easy to say "focus on x's & o's" when you already turn a profit/have more money than you know what to do w/."
Making over 2 million a year would seem to be enough to ensure that he would spend his time figuring out a way to get to the National Championship game rather than worrying about advertising and whether his wife gets her own box or whatever. Secondly, he just signed this contract last year, if I started demanding things the day after I was just given a raise I would be laughed out of the building. Third, there was basically one alumni (Kendrick) who said WVU reneged on the deal. Seeing these threats in these emails LESS THAN ONE YEAR AFTER HE SIGNED A NEW CONTRACT makes me think RR actually is a slimy piece of shit. Good riddance. Lastly, the Governor of WV needs to find something to do
- January 24, 2008 11:21 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Yeah- that's why tosu fans spend so much time saying how bad he'll be.
Tosu fans should leave R2's problems to us & concern themselves w/ who is paying for Pryor's vette.
Nothing will make YOU irrelevant than ending up like smu.
BTW- Brian has a nice pic of the vette the tosu booster bought him on mgoblog. Sweet ride.
- January 24, 2008 11:23 AM
- Feelin' Blue said...
While WVU is crazy and the school and the fans have slandered RR, RR is no Lloyd Carr. Still, I don't think that RR is as sleazy as Yost's post (rhymin'!) makes him out to be. For one thing, have you heard of his players at WVU getting into trouble at all? While it could all be Barwis, who was a father figure to Pacman Jones and got him to behave while at WVU, I think that RR has policies and demands for his players that keep them in line. The point is, he's miles apart from Barry Switzer or Dennis Erickson. (Or maybe even Les Miles!)
But I digress. 99% of coaches want funds readily available for facilities, equipment, staff--basically, anything that allows them to effectively do their jobs. From what I understand based on postings here and on mgoblog, the WVU AD was doing a bad job of raising and maintaining funds for the program, and this frustrated RR. In any business, a prominent employee who feels that he isn't being listened to will interview at other prominent jobs to show that he's wanted and appreciated elsewhere, and that his current employer better start listening. This explains the Alabama flirtation. When RR still didn't get what he wanted (and I am not talking about money) and Pastilong was still being an incompetent buffoon, he left.
I just think that RR wanted to raise more money for the program because the AD seemed incapable of doing so. I don't agree with the proposed methods, especially since the Big House has no advertising.
- January 24, 2008 11:32 AM
- WingRG said...
when Coop was here and you guys were beating us you didn't really care that you were beating a "bunch of cheaters". In fact, you took pride in the fact that OSU was ranked very high every year, and you could knock them off.
Now, you can manage one win in 7 years, and suddenly you're so concerned about "character issues in C-bus". Spare me.
Now, as far as RR: i have no idea if he'll turn out to be good for you guys or not (nobody really does). But if you think that just him running the "spread" will get you victories against OSU and MNC's every year i can't help but laugh.
The guy couldn't beat Pitt with superior talent, so "don't get out the annointing oils quite yet" (quote from Big Tuna).
- January 24, 2008 11:35 AM
- Feelin' Blue said...
...although he may have wanted money for himself for all I know. But what I wrote is a possible explanation for all this, based on my understanding of the situation. Another part of my reasoning is that coaches typically do not come to Michigan for more money or to go to the NFL. RR's increase in pay is large, but it doesn't seem so significant as to attract him away from a job that he likes. I could be wrong. Another thing is that he left a year after getting a raise and with a $4m buyout, although he is trying to get out of that, but could he really have expected to? Unless he has been planning this for a long time, then probably not.
- January 24, 2008 11:40 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
I think we tend to look @ the issue just in terms of $$ and miss some of the point from the human side.
R2 gets the $3 mill offer, turns it down to stay home, be the "loyal" guy, & gets promises about the future. A year passes, he's lost a million he'd have had if he'd had gone to Bama, & none of the promises have been kept. In fact, they're dipping into his football fund to pay other bills.
Who wouldn't feel like a sap? Hasn't anyone else given some a second chance & then felt used?
How long do you put up w/ that before you say- I'm done w/ this. This rift started long before Lloyd retired. All the dire predictions about R2 presume the same set of circumstances in the future. Not likely.
Oh, wngrg,
Fla, lsu, illinois,psu ('05),texs?
All versions of a none pro/motion-spread option.
Tighten up your sapaceboots.
- January 24, 2008 11:53 AM
- CrimeNotes said...
I've been trying not to get a bandwagon mentality about Rodriguez and to maintain some detached skepticism until he proves more for Michigan both on and off the field. Some previous stuff has made me uneasy and justifying them requires giving a lot of benefit of the doubt, but these e-mails seem to me to go a long way toward redeeming him.
Basically, they conclusively show that WVU athletics were run as some kind of backwater fiefdom full of Mayberry Machiavellis, utterly divided and disorganized, completely incompetent and ultimately shady. If the football coach is accountable to the governor, even if the governor is just a fan with a big job title, something has gone seriously wrong.
The business about the pay-only website, the in-stadium advertising and the tone of the agent's e-mails made me queasy, true. Even before this hire friends and I ragged on schools whose official football sites have names like mackbrownfootball.com and coachrod.com, and if RR tried something like that here I'd be disgusted. It's a far cry from "the team, the team, the team," and seems vaguely cult-like. Similarly, if Michigan Stadium were defaced with ads for Whole Foods the Vu and Fowlerville Farms, I'd visit the grave of Fielding Yost and pray for his ghost to smite everyone responsible.
That said, WVU had paltry resources. RR wanted to leverage what little the school had to offer. Michigan's resources are vast by comparison. It's well run and they squeeze out every dollar. In light of the Halo controversy and the outcry over the SBC sponsorship, I'd be surprised if these changes ever come into play at Michigan.
I think the message coming out of these e-mails was that RR played hardball with a pack of duplicitous incompetents. (Although it certainly puts the lie to his comment about coming to Michigan because there's something special about it, particularly if FSU was a prospect for him.) Certain developments in the last month still make me uneasy (I'm still skeptical that the shredding incident was innocent housecleaning) but these e-mails put his actions in more of a lie-down-with-dogs context. He took tough stances with people who lied to him and diverted cash from his recruiting fund. It's tough to criticize him for that.
- January 24, 2008 12:01 PM
- WingRG said...
i'm telling you: if the "spread" is all you're counting on, i'm not sure you won't be disappointed.
- January 24, 2008 12:04 PM
- Nathan said...
"In fact, they're dipping into his football fund to pay other bills."
That's a completely inaccurate statement. The 1100 fund was created to pay for private air travel for Rich Rod from boosters. Money was taken from the fund to pay for other football expenses but always replaced within a month. RR wanted sole control over the fund which is where the contention came from, and the AD should definitely have kept him more in the loop with how the money was handled.
On a side note, UM spokesman said "the answer is a resounding 'no'" when asked if RR would be allowed to have a similar fund at UM.
- January 24, 2008 12:26 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Your facts don't match what a lot of the papers say.
The world doesn't have time for your bitter imagination.
He left. He's not coming back. You didn't like him to begin w/, remember?
- January 24, 2008 12:36 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Of the 6 losses to tosu, 4 were by less than a td. I think we'll see more benefit from the new s&c program than the actual scheme.
- January 24, 2008 12:46 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
I was staying out of this as it's none of my business, but your dig concerning the spread caught my attention. Yes, tOSU has had problems defending it, but assuming that that isn't being worked on in C-bus...hmmm.
Tress and the boys have to realize the same thing and RR coming to AA ratchets up the need to change tactics. If tOSU coaches aren't looking at new defenses they deserve to lose and get a pink slip.
I don't think any Buckeye fans are worried about RR. Business as usual. Always expect the unexpected in the November dogfight.
Speaking of dogfights, please get an avatar with more bite than that coach pillow of a dog. I expect more from you.
- January 24, 2008 12:46 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Well put. Anytime the us senator & guv are both actively involved in any activity, you have to pause to consider the depth of the cronyism.
I don't like the idea of ads or gimmicks either. Remember a few years ago when there was a move to sell the naming rights of the tosu-m game? These revenue schemes pop up. Michigan has always walked a fine line on these issues (we caught a lot of flack for the first Nike deal). Hopefully, we'll avoid the most egregious ones in the future.
That said, I don't fault lesser wealthy schools for doing these things. It's easy for us to eschew additional revenues that others need.
Hopefully, R2 won't feel the need to run side businesses to augment his income.
- January 24, 2008 12:55 PM
- Jim said...
Yeesh. When's the Spring Game?
Is any of the agent's correspondence really that shocking? More money for RR means more for him. All agents talk a big game. I don't see anything else here. Basically none of the concerns facing a program like WVU are relevant in AA, so why wring our hands over coach blogs and stadium ads?
- January 24, 2008 12:59 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Well, given the '05-'07 seasons & the losses to spread type teams, I'd say they need a plan b on this issue.
Sorry wgrg, but kate likes the pup.
Chicks dig it, I do it
- January 24, 2008 1:01 PM
- WingRG said...
i have to agree with you: the strength and conditioning program will make a difference. I'm just not sure it will put you over the top.
as much as i hate to bring this up, you posted the same thing before the MNC game (re: Tressel and the boys working on better defending the spread). They worked on it. And it made a difference. We *only* lost by 14 instead of being blown out. Hopefully, better adjustments will be made.
NC games are no fun, if you're teams not really in them in the 4th quarter
- January 24, 2008 1:04 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
"but kate likes the pup.
Chicks dig it, I do it"
Manliness: where has it gone?
Dude, gird up your loins and act like a man!
- January 24, 2008 1:06 PM
- WingRG said...
that was whetstone, not me. To quote the great late Chris Moltisanti: "i'm a dog lover myself". In fact, we just got a new puppy about 5 weeks ago (which has contributed to my recent posting inactivity).
If any of you are Sopranos fanatics (like myself) and are wondering where the Chrissy quote comes from, it's from "Boca", a Season 1 episode where Meadow's soccer coach's dog is kidnapped.
- January 24, 2008 1:08 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
You make my point. The coaches saw the need and started working on it.
Now, I expect them to keep working on it until they do the best job in the country shutting the spread down.
- January 24, 2008 1:09 PM
- WingRG said...
Whet: i hope to G-d you're right. Although blaming the LSU loss on coaches and/or spread offense would be a cop out. Players needed to execute and stay under control. They didn't.
- January 24, 2008 1:15 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
Don't get me wrong, I too blame the loss on execution, etc. However, they seem to be on track in adjusting to the spread.
- January 24, 2008 1:18 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Sorry- no spring game- stadium rebuild.
However, the rest of the point is well taken.
I suppose arguing w/ wngrg & wtrk about the conflict between tre$$els "genius" & his inability to beat ron zook are just my way of passing the time until something happens.
- January 24, 2008 1:19 PM
- Out of Conference said...
You know, when a gov and state senator push for the Medal of Honor to be awarded to someone that was captured due to mistakes made by the drivers, risked the lives of commandos in rescuing her, even though the hospital she was in was not even guarded tarnishing the history of the MOA (much like recent winners of the Heisman have tarnished that award))- then you know RR giving them the finger on the way out the door is not going to be taken lightly.
- January 24, 2008 1:27 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
"I suppose arguing w/ wngrg & wtrk about the conflict between tre$$els "genius" & his inability to beat ron zook are just my way of passing the time until something happens."
C'mon. Everyone's got a nemesis. Ask Lloyd or dabraylon17.
- January 24, 2008 1:29 PM
- WingRG said...
SiC, funny, but not too accurate. Tressel is 1-1 against Zooker.
- January 24, 2008 1:44 PM
- Nathan said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- January 24, 2008 1:59 PM
- Nathan said...
Article on misuse of 1100 fund:
What did my comment have to do with whether I liked RR or not? I was just correcting your statement that money was taken from the football fund to pay bills, which was not the case. The AD has stated that money was always replaced (which may or may not be true). If you're going to trash our amateur hour athletic department at least get the facts straight.
- January 24, 2008 2:02 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Well, if have an article in which your racist, lying AD says so, it must be true.
How's that for straight facts?
- January 24, 2008 2:06 PM
- Joshua said...
/tOSU fans when as it pertains to UofM
"There's no sky! We do not know about this sky of which you speak! And if someone falls from the sky and just happens to have a Corvette or vehicle clearly outside of their means we have no knowledge of this!"
/tOSU fans when it pertains to tOSU recruiting
Personally I have no problem at all with R2 trying to get what he was promised. If you break this down into real life/normal people terms it's like this.
Rich sells widgets. Rich is really good at selling widgets. Possibly revolutionary in his style. He works his way up and gets good job with a fairly large company in his hometown, W. Virgina Widgets. He's successful there and helps that company grow. A few years go by.....
Then he gets courted by another company, Alabama Widgets. They have slightly better widgets and traditionally pay much more, a better break room, and better health coverage. Rich goes back to WV Widgets and says "Look, I'd really like to stay but I have this offer from Alabam Widgets, can we work something out?" They negotiate and Rich stays, gets a raise as well as promises of upgrades to his company car, a new receptionist, etc. Basically things to make it easier for him to compete with the bigger companies. He's already competing with them but with the same facilities thinks he can be the best in the business.
A year goes by and Rich sees little if any of the improvements. He starts dropping hints to co-workers about his frustration with being jerked around, basically letting it be known that he passed up a better opportunity and if it comes around again he might not.
A few months later Michigan Widgets calls and Rich bolts. Better opportunity, better health benefits, and a willingness to give him what he needs to succeed. Easier appointments because Mich Widgets is a recognized name. Sound familiar?
Nathan, demanding things you've been promised isn't slimy.
- January 24, 2008 2:08 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
OMG- the return of the infamous widget manufacturer business case!!!
Jolly good, josh. Jolly good.
- January 24, 2008 2:14 PM
- Nathan said...
"Well, if have an article in which your racist, lying AD says so, it must be true.
How's that for straight facts?"
Well put argument. I apologize greatly for challenging your inaccurate statement. The AD is absolutely racist b/c Calvin Magee said so. So racist in fact, that he decided to go ahead and coach the bowl game. Truth is he wasn't considered for the head coaching job b/c no one even knew we had an offensive coordinator until RR left. He had always called the plays.
I agree that if he was promised things within his first year that were not met then he absolutely has a right to be pissed and leave in that instance, but I haven't seen evidence of that yet. We might if this thing actually goes to court. I know some of the bigger demands are in the process of being met, such as facilities but we just dont have the resources to erect an entirely new athletic department in one year, and he knew that when he signed the deal. My point was that it is slimy to sign a new deal then immediately demand more. He should have put all of his demands in the original contract, which doesn't appear to be the case.
- January 24, 2008 2:17 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Aren't you the clarence darrow? My statement is inaccurate only if you believe your AD, who is a demonstrated liar. And he is now a demonstrated liar.
So, my statemnt is accurate given you lying source.
And obviously you don't believe magee, either?
Another liar, huh?
You should listen to your new coach. The national press has turned on you & you look more desperate w/ each new whine. Your 15 mins in the spotlight are over.
- January 24, 2008 2:32 PM
- Nathan said...
I don't see how I was whining at all. Please provide me with the evidence that our AD is a "proven" liar. I personally think our AD should be fired for other things long before this RR situation (going back to horribly screwing up the bball coaching search prior to Beilein) but it seems your only evidence that he is a proven liar is that you simply choose to believe RR.
As for the Magee situation, there's just not much evidence to back up his accusations. I was bashed on here a few days ago over the shredding incident b/c it was all based on an "unnamed source." Well Magee's entire accusation is based on one "unnamed source" within the AD. If you were told by your employer that you would never move up b/c of your skin color would you continue to work there, even for a day. It's not like he didn't have another job, he was already on his way to Michigan. Even you have to say that doesn't make much sense.
- January 24, 2008 2:41 PM
- Joshua said...
"if he was promised things within his first year that were not met then he absolutely has a right to be pissed and leave in that instance, but I haven't seen evidence of that yet."
"My point was that it is slimy to sign a new deal then immediately demand more. He should have put all of his demands in the original contract, which doesn't appear to be the case."
So you've haven't seen enough evidence to make a judgement, but "it appears not to be the case" based on....what? All the evidence you haven't seen?
And I'm hatching a plan to pay Pryor off in Widgets if he comes to A2, b/c everyone knows a good widget will get you more ass than a good Vette any day of the week.
- January 24, 2008 2:44 PM
- Nathan said...
His demands for complete control over the 1100 club and how certain funds were spent is not something that appears to be in the actual contract, by reading the actual contract.
- January 24, 2008 2:51 PM
- Nathan said...
Actually after rereading his contract, there is nothing in the contract relating to his demands for high school coaches, his wife's box, or many of the other demands made in the string of emails. Therefore additional demands were made after immediately signing a contract. Maybe these things were promised verbally, but if you're not smart enough to have things put in writing then that's on you. The contract can be found in the court filings, since I'm sure the only response on here will be "get over it" or "shut up crazy WVU fan" or "you're a liar":
- January 24, 2008 3:17 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Chicks dig widgets
- January 24, 2008 3:19 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
You have an old lady. Quit worrying about what chicks dig.
- January 24, 2008 3:26 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
Regarding what kind of offensive scheme is better or more effective, I'll paraphrase an old adage: it's not what you have; it's how you use it.
Coaching strategy and adapting to game situations are more important.
- January 24, 2008 3:35 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Dude- she's an MBA. She LOVES widgets!
- January 24, 2008 3:37 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
Isn't she an OSU grad?
According to this blog she should just deliver the pizza and not worry about widgets.
- January 24, 2008 3:42 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
While using the spread doesn't guarantee you victory (as I just posted), it's very difficult to defend. It's been around for a while. I doubt that coaches have been clueless and are just figuring out how to stop it (although that certainly may be the case!). You need smart, athletic guys on defense and a gameplan. I don't know exactly what Jim Leavitt did against WVU, but the Bulls were prepared and also had a few turnovers go their way.
There are some teams that you can beat by just running the same 3 spread option plays, but against teams like OSU with better defense, no doubt you need an offensive gameplan and the ability to adjust to game situations. I hope to God that RR can do that.
- January 24, 2008 3:48 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
How do you get the tosu mba off the porch?
Pay for the pizza?
Wngrg- she has a very good job actually. She makes about 20% of what I make, but she has a pretty good job.
BTW-since she works full time, we have a maid. The maid went tosu, too. No mba though.
- January 24, 2008 3:50 PM
- Joshua said...
Thanks for calling Columbus Papa John's. For your convenience you may pay by check, credit card, cash, or widget.
- January 24, 2008 3:59 PM
- beast in 'bama said...
Chris Moltisanti:
"i'm a dog lover myself"
Do you think that's why Chase had Cristepha "return" as a cat in the final episode - or was it just to creep out Paulie?
Guess who's the best/lifelong friend of the West Virginia governor? Wait for it...
Nick Saban.
(That's the current governor - might not be the one to whom you're referring.)
Bartender, a round of Widgets for everyone!
- January 24, 2008 4:04 PM
- TitleIX said...
nathan nathan nathan...
what does coach's wife's box have anything to do with this you prevert!?
I'm waiting for the sing-song version of 'liar, liar, pants on fire' from you boys. sheez....
and SiC: 'splain me how your wife with a very good job only makes 20%of what you do???? Given current stats she should be earning a whopping 70% of what you earn if you two had the same job....so what kind of "good" job wholesales things even lower????
yep. fair warning.
- January 24, 2008 4:04 PM
- Joshua said...
Thanks for the link, I'll have to check it out. I would think that some of those things would be verbal, and asking for everything in writing takes away a lot of good faith, not unlike asking your fiance to sign a pre-nup.
"My dear I love you dearly, and trust you implicitly, and will be with you forever and ever and ever. But just in case, could you sign here... and here... and here so I don't lose all my widgets when you turn out to be a lying cheating whore?"
Sometimes getting it in writing isn't an option.
- January 24, 2008 4:15 PM
- Joshua said...
OMG I was outdone on an obvious sex joke by T9. What fresh hell is this?
Quick T9- what's one box plus one box equal? Get this right and there may be hope for us yet. Provided you don't ask for a pre-nup.
- January 24, 2008 4:18 PM
- WingRG said...
you keep blaming me for whetstone's mischief, i'm well aware of the kinda job you can get with an OSU education.
BiB (you guys have a matching 'i' in the middle),
"That was a para-normal event". I think it was mainly just to fuck with Paulie who turns out to be very superstitious in the end (but he's also the only one alive, so who am i to judge him)
As far as Chrissy being a dog lover himself, maybe we should ask Ade and Cosette about that.
"i oughta suffocate you, you little prick!"
- January 24, 2008 4:47 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
Lose the dog. Get a fuck lion.
- January 24, 2008 7:08 PM
- Tom C said...
a good widget will get you more ass than a good Vette any day of the week.
............................................Uhhh Josh I'll take two please!;)
- January 24, 2008 8:55 PM
- Katie said...
Sorry, 61 comments, I don't have time to read, so if this has been said, forgive me.
1. I agree with the entire, this is getting VERY old, enough already crowd.
2. RR was at a school that did not have the same resources that we do at Michigan. It is possible that he was looking for ways to increase revenue at WVU so that he could create a better program. I don't see that he needs to do that here. Could there be some "ego" of his involved in it, probably, but ultimately he was trying to create a bigger and better program with less, so yeah.....sell some ads....do what you can to increase revenue, it has been said before, CFB is a business......can you blame him?
I do hope it all ends soon.........no matter how clean RR may be, he is getting dirty the longer this goes on.
- January 24, 2008 9:42 PM
- Mikoyan said...
Hmmm...Never thought I would see the advice from headhunters pan out in 3 million dollar jobs. They say to never take the counter offer.
- January 25, 2008 12:32 AM
- Nathan said...
I agree that some things would be discussed verbally and there should be a certain trust issue between employer and employee. However, nothing is official if its not in a contract, especially when you're talking about multimillion $ buyouts and salaries.
On a side note, RR is now claiming he was "forced" to sign the contract, which sounds like a high school kid telling his parents he was "forced" to smoke the wacky weed.
- January 25, 2008 9:50 AM
- Ryan said...
Yost, you can be downright hilarious at times, but your incessant whining about what is "right" in college football and fandom is tiresome. There are people that look for direction, and then there are people that make the decisions others are hesitant to make. I'm willing to guess that you're very obedient...
- January 25, 2008 10:37 PM


text:
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
And Terrelle Pryor is going to...
Pryor has claimed to have norrowed his list of Oregon, Penn State, Tosu and Michigan down to two, with most folks saying it's between Michigan and the Tosu. However, almost everybody expects him to pick the Bucks who have apparently been his favorite from the start.
Terrelle, if you're reading this (as I'm sure you are) while you mull over your final decision, do you really want to be on the wrong side of Benny's mad Photoshop skills your entire college football career? I'm just saying. Something to consider.
50 comments:
- Sgt. Wolverine said...
Unless he surprises a lot of people and actually picks Michigan, his announcement will be (in my eyes) overwhelmingly anticlimactic. On signing day, it was all WOOOOO TERRELLE PRYOR!!!, but now it's all WOOOOO MARCH MADNESS!!!, with the media flurry of signing day a distant memory and the awesomeness of football season way off in the distance (with a long, hot, torturous summer blocking the view). And if he makes the decision most people think he's going to make, it seems like a lot of people will just shrug and go back to their basketball brackets. Um, I mean, go back to work. Yeah. Work.
Anyway, it's too bad he's not likely to end up going to Oregon, because then I could say something like:
Terrelle Pryor: your bandwagon has died of dysentery.
- March 19, 2008 1:19 AM
- MGoBlue93 said...
Sgt, well said. Moreover, does anyone really give a fuck if TP comes to A2? And if TP does come to A2, what's the over/under on how long it takes before he's running Big House stairs every morning at 6 AM?
I'll wager TP honors daddy's wishes and goes to State Penn.
- March 19, 2008 2:05 AM
- Dezzi said...
I always seemed to die of dysentery....
I don't really care where TP goes. The hype that follows him will be too great!
I don't think he'll choose UM because of the way we've crucified previous QBs as a fan base. He probably does not want to deal with that pressure.
Needless to say... I'm going to spend more time "working" on my bracket than listening to what TP has to say.
- March 19, 2008 4:15 AM
- TitleIX said...
he's either with us er agin'st us
or some such thing
hell, maybe the General Studies major will be really attractive to him???
Or maybe the Family Resource major at tOSU is more appealing???
ps===the women play their NIT opener at Crisler on Monday
- March 19, 2008 7:05 AM
- Dean said...
I think I lost interest in TP right around the time he postponed his decision again. Too much has happened, he's lost the limelight. Hopefully he comes to UM, but I don't think I'll be too crushed when he doesn't.
- March 19, 2008 7:44 AM
- Out of Conference said...
Hey Terrelle, save the drama for your momma!
- March 19, 2008 7:49 AM
- Catie said...
Pryor who??? Meh. I lost interest in him a LONG time ago. Not sure if it was the media or the kid himself, but I don't care much for drama, so I close ranks quickly on stuff like that. I hope he made the right choice for himself, it sure seemed to be a difficult one for him, although by all reports he seems to have made his choice from the beginning and then played the media real well. Just sayin.
- March 19, 2008 8:13 AM
- DaBraylon17 said...
here is my thought. he was set to pick osu on signing day. if it's down to osu and Michigan, it's obvious he will pick osu. frankly, i can give two shits. i have been over this guy for two months now. it's a fuckin joke. i have moved on a while ago and have already convinced myself that RR will get his QB in his next class. bring on Threet.
- March 19, 2008 8:47 AM
- Jim said...
I also say: meh. He's one player and we're still Michigan. Despite some media hand-wringing our fate never will (and never should) rest on a single recruit.
- March 19, 2008 8:48 AM
- BARman said...
...I find the juxtiposition of "TP" and "dysentery" amusing. In my arrested-adolescent way...
- March 19, 2008 8:48 AM
- Joshua said...
According to my sources* TP will go to Ohio State.
(*sources are quite definitely the plants in my office.)
Hey Catie- how'd you give me the killer flu via the interweb? I'd like to pass it along.
My WV: OHWHBSCH
There's gotta be an OSU joke in there somewhere- I'll let you guys find it.
- March 19, 2008 8:59 AM
- Eric said...
I see a lot of preemptive sour grapes in these comments. Sure, my opinion of Pryor has fallen a bit since signing day with the rumors of his problems, but I'm not saying I don't want him on the team.
I think I'm going to be satisfied with whatever his decision is. I'm gonna cheer like hell for him if he picks the maize and blue. If he picks the bucks (as it looks like he will), regardless of off-field problems I'm not looking forward to the prospect of Michigan having to face him for the next 4 (3?) years.
- March 19, 2008 8:59 AM
- Corey said...
His ego fits right in with the rest of to$u family. Not to mention he'll get paid more at to$u what 18 year old wouldn't say no to corvette?
- March 19, 2008 9:13 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Had breakfast @ Bob Evans w/ clients. Every booth around me had a discussion counting the Heismans & MNC's tosu is going to win starting @ noon.
Reminds me of the Ron Powlus era @ ND.
The kid is talented & a great prospect, but there's one or two of these each year & the number that work out are few.
Drew Henson ring a bell?
Point is it would be great to have his skills on the roster, but that's no promise of "on field" success where ever he goes- Justin Zwick ring any bells, tosu fans?
Us Michigan fans should keep one thing in mind- Pryor never thought about A2 before the R2 hire. We've heard a lot of talk about how our recruiting will suffer w/ R2's offense. Well, Pryor's interest, even if he signs w/ tosu, shows how our recruiting will benefit w/ R2's offense, too.
- March 19, 2008 9:15 AM
- Bigasshammm said...
"My WV: OHWHBSCH"
Ohio, where helpful ball scratching cures herpes!
Seriously I'd much rather TP goes to TO$U. How great would it be for us MI fans to cheer on an O$U qb with the initials TP? The jokes that will be rampant makes it all worth it. Frankly I'd hate to be any Big Ten qb in the next few years playing against our new sack crazy defensive scheme. I see many concussions in the future.
- March 19, 2008 10:08 AM
- Orlando fireman said...
Been a lurker for a long time and not everyone who lives in Fl follows the lizzards (gators). I hope TP picks Mich but like has been stated before, if he doesnt, I'll go back about my business and await the season. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get my fishin gear ready for tomorrow because I have some grouper with my name on it
- March 19, 2008 10:26 AM
- Nate said...
Sack crazy defensive system?? Are we talking about the 3-3-5. Anyway, if TP does switch it up and go to Michigan it will be funny to see you all switch from "eh who cares" to "We got Terrel Pryor, now we have a true spread QB to lock up the National Championship"
- March 19, 2008 10:29 AM
- Bigasshammm said...
Sack crazy defensive system?? Are we talking about the 3-3-5. Anyway, if TP does switch it up and go to Michigan it will be funny to see you all switch from "eh who cares" to "We got Terrel Pryor, now we have a true spread QB to lock up the National Championship"
It's not the system it's the D coordinator. As explained over at Mgoblog several times. I still will not be sold on the kid wether he comes to MI or not until he does some amazing unselfish things on the field throughout the year.
- March 19, 2008 10:33 AM
- I'm blue, da ba dee said...
Well, I'll be the first one to say WOOHOO if he signs with us! Truth is, we don't have a single QB on our roster with any applicable experience, so we might as well go with the most talented one available, and that's TP. And I don't buy the whole "he's stringing the press along because of his huge ego" argument. I think he simply wanted to focus on basketball and fulfill his commitment to his team before making another to a different team. Call me crazy, but it just seems like the hoopla was just the media doing their thing to generate interest.
- March 19, 2008 11:29 AM
- Justin said...
"I see a lot of preemptive sour grapes in these comments. Sure, my opinion of Pryor has fallen a bit since signing day with the rumors of his problems, but I'm not saying I don't want him on the team."
I couldn't have said it better myself Eric. So why am I even saying anything. Well truth be told the whole TP hype has fizzled. I think we all are thinking that he is going to choose Tosu. But let's not count our chickens before they hatch.
- March 19, 2008 11:36 AM
- Feelin' Blue said...
How have we crucified previous QBs? The Patriots have a whole fanbase in the state of Michigan because of Tom Brady, and people were chanting Henne's name during the OSU game when Mallett was sent in. I guess we could have been nicer to John Navarre and people did boo during the Oregon game, but otherwise there's just a lot of pressure on QBs at UM as with any big school. Other places are worse.
I have reservations about TP, but I don't want him going to OSU. He will be tough to defend, but Shafer seems like a smart DC.
- March 19, 2008 11:53 AM
- zen wizard said...
Great topic!
Makes me totally forget how "15 Greatest Sports Movies of All Time" is hanging--like a crudely sliced electical wire--like an irritating, dangling, twisting-in-the-wind, Coleman-Francis-penned-script-device, unresolved loose end...
- March 19, 2008 11:57 AM
- Justin said...
Well he chose Tosu. I guess those chickens were already dead. So no need to count them.
- March 19, 2008 12:04 PM
- ohio_guy said...
Pryor to Benny: "bring it on"
- March 19, 2008 12:10 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
ESPN really needs to stop with the Goodbye, Columbus references.
- March 19, 2008 12:10 PM
- Eric said...
Eh, screw it. Commence with the sour grapes. Engage.
He's a cancer. Not up to Michigan standards. A primadonna. Overrated. Disciplinary nightmare.
And now I have a reason to dread grey Saturdays in November for another 3/4 years. *sigh*
- March 19, 2008 12:18 PM
- wolverine425 said...
fuck him...i hope we break his spirit first then his legs...GO BLUE!!!!
- March 19, 2008 12:19 PM
- Tom C said...
The ego has landed and we won. He is now a buck.
- March 19, 2008 12:20 PM
- Bigasshammm said...
... not shocked
- March 19, 2008 12:21 PM
- Lysa said...
he picked state, oh well
- March 19, 2008 1:01 PM
- Orlando fireman said...
keep hearin reference to Tim Tebow durring the press conference. Wasnt it only three months ago a decent Michigan team beat Tim Tebow?(oh yea...and the other 10 guys that make up his staff) Proved that one man does not make a team. Good luck TP and it should be interesting to hear the crowd when he comes to the Big House!
- March 19, 2008 1:14 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
give the kid credit for making the right choice- he's perfect for columbus. the is no larger city so completely fixated on CFB. the CBJ's are still w/ in striking distance of a playoff spot skating in Detroit tonight. tomorrow's front page/first page of the sports page? oh yeah- the Dispatch will have half the print dedicated to him- his record, impact on his coming, why him picking TOSU over LSU proves they really won the MNC last year, etc.
i promise there will be a line @ the Buckeye Corner (our version of the MDen) waiting to see what number he gets so people can buy his jersey.
the kid is talented and he loves the attention. there is no where else he could have gone that will shower w/ him w/ half as much attention as they will here in columbus. just like they did Robert Smith or Mo Clarett. he'll be touted as the 'savior" of tosu football, the missing part to the MNC, etc., etc.
what it will really mean? who remembers Scott Driesbach or Drew Henson? Griese & Brady ended up being the successful ones. Justin Zwick was ballyhooed as the second coming, but Troy Smith ended up the starter. Wasn't Xaivier Lee the next coming of Vince Young just a few years ago?
Ron Powlus trying to play in Lou Holtz's offense was always a bad idea. we'll see how Pryor fits into Sweatboy's.
- March 19, 2008 1:21 PM
- Ron said...
I'll need a reason, any reason, that I should've been nicer to John Navarre.
Need to clean my keyboard after just typing his name.
- March 19, 2008 1:27 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
i have put myself thru the same process. basically, looking back, i see three reasons i have taken back some of what i said:
1) it wasn't his fault, it was Loeffler's- he has an established track record of turning good prospects into mediocre prospects, Chad Henne the most recent example;
2) i can't blame the QB when the coach/OC call the same plays every game, in the same sequence, every season, for 13 seasons; and
3) despite all his mistakes, he played a great season in 2003 (none of the three losses were his fault- special teams lost the first two and reason #2 above lost the rose bowl) and he beat tosu.
not an overwelming argument, but i look at him and Henne, think about the completely different offense (and attitude) we saw in the Citrus Bowl, and have to wonder if the coaches had tried that approach starting in 2001, wouldn't they both have been a lot better?
- March 19, 2008 1:47 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
You guys are rough on your QBs. Ouch!
Do you think Pryor will continue as a QB or might they move him to another position because of his athleticism?
- March 19, 2008 1:48 PM
- horseshoe said...
UM gets TP if they beat Appalachian State.
- March 19, 2008 1:48 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
more likely they'll move antonio henton, though, he may not know that yet.
if we'd have beat App St., Lloyd probably wouldn't have retired so quickly after the end of the regular season, and Les Myles would be the coach. either way i don't see us getting Pryor.
on another note, EDSBS has its own funny SEC spin on him:
- March 19, 2008 1:59 PM
- Bigasshammm said...
They may move Pryor after they see his throwing ability.
I am excited to see this year's student T...
Who needs TP (picture of a roll) when you have Rich Rod? (On back is the Simpson's "In Rod We TrusT" picture with the schedule superimposed.
PS: Signs of the times to come? Word verification:
Point of view - "Glub" (that sound someone makes when drowning)
- March 19, 2008 2:15 PM
- WoodyHayes said...
Sour grapes from a bunch of jealous liars. You would all be singing a different tune if Pryor had chosen michigan. And to titleix: is the general studies program included in the "Academic Success Program" uncovered by the Ann Arbor News?? Your argument of superior academics has been laid to waste by your own newspaper, and former players in the know. At least you have women's basketball to look forward to. Enjoy.
- March 19, 2008 3:10 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
i thought woody hayes was dead. isn't he dead?
actually, i have to say it took a lot longer for a bottom feeding utosu troll to show up here than i thought it would.
- March 19, 2008 3:13 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
You're right, woodyhayes.
Jim Carty is also completely honest, and Terrelle Pryor is the only good athlete in the history of sports. Everyone else is worthless. John Beilein, RR, and everyone else affiliated with any athletic program at Michigan is garbage. Congratulations, you win.
If you look at mgoblog message boards from around the time that TP visited UM, you will notice that people were still saying negative stuff about TP, much of it unwarranted, but negative stuff nonetheless.
My attitude? Sure, he would be great to have, but not getting him won't be the end of the world. Besides, the hype surrounding him could be a distraction for everyone and undermine everyone's efforts, especially at a program such as Michigan that is still in flux. This gives the Michigan team more of a chance to improve as a team, although I do think that RR and Barwis would keep him in line.
- March 19, 2008 3:31 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
as once said about Powlus- Heisman after Heisman after Heisman.
- March 19, 2008 3:33 PM
- WoodyHayes said...
I don't recall calling Pryor the next coming of Joe Montana. The point is that all this negativity is hyprocritical in that you would all be rabid in chants of victory over Tressel and OSU. Spin it all you want. You know it is true.
surrounded in columbus' continued rants against Pryor are pathetic. mouth breather.
- March 19, 2008 3:58 PM
- wolverine425 said...
where do you go if you want to be an NFL quarterback? Why, The University of Ohio State of course! He might have a nice career at TUOS but he'll never make the pro's coming out of that cowtippin' town.
- March 19, 2008 4:08 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
"I don't recall calling Pryor the next coming of Joe Montana."
Are you talking about this? http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080124/SPORTS06/80124016/1048/sports
Wow. One journalist calls a QB who never played a snap in college the next Joe Montana, and he represents all of us? I don't think that the writer is dumb enough to believe that and I don't think that the title was completely serious either. Then again, the freep gave us Drew Sharp. Seriously, though, you are dumber than I thought.
Let's see here. You have never been to this website, as far as I can recall. We spend more time talking about boobies anyway. As I have explained, TP even had detractors in the Michigan camp when it seemed like Michigan was a real possibility. I said myself that having TP would be nice; my position has only been influenced by what I know about him. Plus, there were people who were thought that he was being too much of a media whore. And then there was the Corvette business. Of course, UM fans only brought that up after noon today. Yup, I would say that you know all UM fans down to a T.
"The point is that all this negativity is hyprocritical in that you would all be rabid in chants of victory over Tressel and OSU. Spin it all you want. You know it is true."
There are few things that I hate more than speculation. All I get out of this is that this is what you would do. The last two sentences are another way of saying, "There is nothing that you can do to contradict my argument that is based entirely on speculation and no facts whatsoever because that's the way it is, so there," followed by giving me the raspberry.
Just because a few people have done it, it doesn't mean the whole fan base does.
- March 19, 2008 4:43 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
Ok, here's the article. I am just learning how to write in html.
Terrelle Montana? Or Hannah?
- March 19, 2008 4:45 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
feeln blue,
two articles from the freep:
which basically says that the world does not turn on 1 player- never did.
a second: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080319/SPORTS06/80319038/1054
by ass clown in residence drew sharp (don't bother reading it) talking about how R2 is already "losing" to tuos because of one recruit.
wouldn't be such a stupid angle if it weren't for the spectacular job R2 did recruiting during the transistion. find ANY other new coach who brought in a top 10 recruiting class before his first season?
don't know why i read the papers some days.
- March 19, 2008 4:51 PM
- Joshua said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- March 19, 2008 5:52 PM
- Joshua said...
"1) it wasn't his fault, it was Loeffler's- he has an established track record of turning good prospects into mediocre prospects, Chad Henne the most recent example;"
I don't think this is a fair statement in the slightest. Navarre simply wasn't that good. He could throw, but choked WAY too often and lost us games instead of winning them for us. And all Henne ever did was lead us to a close to perfect season last year, then get injured for most of this one. You can't put that on Scott. As he became qb coach in '02 I think "established track record" is inaccurate at best, for craps sake the guy's only like 34.
- March 19, 2008 6:03 PM
- Feelin' Blue said...
You are right SiC. My post was a bit long and convoluted so I don't know if I said something to that effect, but you make an important point: there were a lot more rational people including a few in the media saying that our future didn't rely on TP. The transition would be a little easier, but he doesn't make or break Michigan football. And woodyhayes can say this all he wants, but not everyone did a total 180 on TP once it became clear that he was going to OSU...I mean, the University of Ohio State.
A side note: to his credit, TP was a bit apologetic, and he didn't have to be. It's his choice, no matter how much he may have strung Michigan along.
- March 19, 2008 7:01 PM

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Tuesday, October 30, 2007
Quiet! There's a football game going on!
I was at a forum hosted by President Coleman's Ethics in Public Life Initiative entitled "Sports Fans: The Good, the Bad, and the Downright Ugly." Among the forum guests were Max Pollock of the football team, Dr. Michael Stevenson, the Executive Associate Athletic Director, Daniel Bromwich from the Daily, and Bitsy Ritt, the Associate Athletic Director. I wouldn't point this out to you except that Dr. Stevenson said some things that really bothered me.
Dr. Stevenson said that noise level in stadiums should be kept low enough to make sure that the opposing team does not need to use hand signals on offense. He pointed out a Michigan-Ohio State game in which he was aghast that Ohio State incurred one false start after another on a drive because of fan noise. He thought this was horrible fan behavior. He even liked how schools can be fined if the noise level gets too high in some conferences. He said that Yost was a great place because of the "enthusiasm", but he didn't like the noise at Michigan Stadium because as he explained to me, noise doesn't effect the out come of the game in hockey like it can football. He thinks that stadiums should make sure that "the best team wins". I don't have him completely quoted, but his comments were a perfect explanation of how the administration continues to encourage quiet behavior in the Big House. He wants to end the "You Suck" cheer because it might hurt the opposing team's feelings, and that any specific insults at players should be strictly prohibited.
My god. I don't have a transcript or anything, but it might be something you could look into. The event was sparsely attended, but I know a few people who were there, and I am sure the Daily will have something on it...
Hey, maybe they can pass out tea and crumpets, too. And make it a 15 yard penalty if the coach yells at a player and damages his self-esteem. Better yet, since the grass is already there on the field, get rid of the pads, hand out clubs and call it golf!
The worst thing about this is the person saying this stuff is the associated with the athletic department! WTF!?! How old is this guy, 106? "You kids get off my lawn! And keep the noise down or I'm callin' the cops!"
In confirming the account above with someone else who was at the meeting, I was told Mr. Stevenson qualified his "Let's all be quiet" comments by saying, "I'm sure I'll be the only one who thinks this but..." Uh, only person in the general population at large who thinks that? I'll go no on that one. But only person WHO WORKS IN THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT OF A MAJOR UNIVERSITY WITH A TOP SPORTS PROGRAM WHO THINKS THAT? Yeah, yeah, I'm guessing you are the only one. And that's ridiculous! No wonder the university has the stupid "key play" sign up on the scoreboard.
How on earth did this person end up working in intercollegiate athletics when it sounds like he might better enjoy the atmosphere at the undergraduate library? And can you even imagine this guy working at an SEC school? Ha. Haha. HAHAHAHA!
Look, anybody who reads this site regularly knows I abhor aggressive or obscene treatment of opposing fans. There is no place in the great game of college football for that. But cheering one's damn head off and giving your team a "home field advantage" is as much a part of the game as first downs and touchdowns. If not, why play the games in front of a crowd at all? Why don't we all just stay home and watch it on the BTN instead?
I have to say, this is an instance in which we deserve to be mocked by our rivals (but quietly, lest somebody wake the baby). Have at it ,OSU. Get a good laugh, MSU. Because this is teed up and punchline ready.
P.S. In the history of football in Ann Arbor, what drive is he talking about in which Ohio State incurred one false start after another due to Michigan fan noise? Seriously. I mean, I've seen it happen like....uh...once. Also, what conference fines schools for fan noise? Is there some ultra quiet league I'm not familiar with? WB had to have misheard that because it sounds like something my grandmother would say she heard from one of her friends at Bingo.
UPDATE: The Michigan Daily's blog confirms and weighs in on the subject.
37 comments:
- Dezzi said...
Who is up for sending off emails/letters to the department to have this guy canned? I'm sorry, but a part of sports is dealing with the crowd noise! Not sure how he can say that noise doesn't affect a hockey outcome? Being on a club hockey team here... I tend to yell out to my teammates when someone is open or when passing/shooting the puck...
We need some young people who aren't so removed from the passion that is college sports running this program. I noticed that in the first half of the UM v. Minny game... the crowd on TV was quiet. Maybe this guy got to them? Only in the second half... when Minny was still in the game... a Minny team that has lost to not one, but TWO 1-AA teams this year... did the volume noticeably increase!
Please Yost, forward this to Florida, LSU fans... the entire SEC for that matter... Oregon and Washington fans... Make this fool receive not only disappointing mail from Michigan Alumni, but mocking letters from opposing fans.
(whispering) It's great... to be... a Michigan Wolverine (/whispering)
I'm going to put my keys away because I believe that my car is getting upset with the amount of noise that my apartment and mailbox key make together...
- October 29, 2007 4:36 AM
- j said...
Yost, I am sorry for pointing out some obvious flaws in your story BUT, Dr.Michael Stevenson is NOT the Executive Associate Athletic Director. He is the current Director of the Ministry of Silly Walks after serving previously as the Associate Director of Nonsensical Epitaphs. I hope this clarifies where his thoughts and concerns are coming from.
- October 29, 2007 7:38 AM
- Katie said...
Just to clarify , prior to the start of the game there is an "ad" that runs on the scoreboard that says MAKE NOISE, so they certainly are not supporting this idea at the games. Also the cheerleaders have signs that say "make noise". I do have to say though, I have this row of people in front of me that are the tea and crumpets crowd and they turn and look at me every time I yell (which is often, infact they may look back more than they look forward) I do believe that they are intentionally doing it, as if to say, "shut the F up" I totally ignore them and scream my bloody head off each game. I have said it before, as has Yost and others, the main problem are the old time season tickets holders, with their big diamonds and blue hair who probably will cut out the story that is written about this seminar and give me a copy at the next game. There is no changing this, all we can do it educate those who can be taught what it means to sit in the Big House and cheer the Maize and Blue. In time it can change as each of these old time season tickets holders kick the bucket.
- October 29, 2007 8:20 AM
- srudoff said...
actually i think this guy is working for the perfect school to match his viewpoint. he probably did a ton of research before signing on and went with the quietest home crowd he could find. i think the fans watching the trinity-millsaps game (all 100 of them) were louder than the Game I attended in Ann Arbor in '99.
- October 29, 2007 8:23 AM
- srudoff said...
forgot this ---> : )
- October 29, 2007 8:24 AM
- TitleIX said...
Remember the earlier post about HYPERBOLE???
Simmer and get the whole story.
I know Mike Stevenson. He is a stand-up guy and actually one of the sane ones in the AD.
get a 360 degree view, then see if you still want his head.
- October 29, 2007 8:38 AM
- Dex said...
some day i hope to lead a militia of booze soaked fans into the stadium carrying makeshit weapons. we will not leave until disemboweling these quiet fans and placing their heads on pikes at every gate. then we will hurl beer bottles at opposing buses, light the night with burning barrel grills before games, and unleash a cadre of starved wolverines on leashes onto the field.
- October 29, 2007 10:15 AM
- Aram said...
Stevenson was the guy who spearheaded the Athletic Department's efforts to lame-ify the Yost student section a few years back with the "elimination" of the CYA cheer. Came off as a total blowhard in the student forums they held.
The Athletic Department has also threatened the Marching Band with a request to stop playing Temptation after third down stops because the students' "You Suck" cheer is supposedly too unsportsmanlike and rude.
It's ridiculous how far the athletic department has gone to make Yost and other Michigan sports venues a less intimidating place to play.
- October 29, 2007 10:38 AM
- Dave said...
Why would you want to make us like Columbus?
- October 29, 2007 10:39 AM
- Out of Conference said...
I really hope this is a hoax story. If not, we're laughing from Dixie.
- October 29, 2007 10:47 AM
- whetstonebuck said...
"Why would you want to make us like Columbus?"
Something to do with passion. For all the external animosity the world knows you "really want to be like Mike."
- October 29, 2007 10:51 AM
- beast in 'bama said...
"some day i hope to lead a militia of booze soaked fans into the stadium carrying makeshit weapons."
That might be the funniest typo in the history of the MZone, Dex. If those weapons were pointed at me, I might just...
- October 29, 2007 11:05 AM
- Dezzi said...
Title IX
I'd really like the 360 degree story... all I can find on the web is how he's the same person that outlawed the vulgarity in the "See Ya" cheer in hockey.... while I might agree that cheer is over the top... that just reinforces my thoughts.
If you have anything that can give me more than the 180 degrees that I am seeing.... I'd greatly appreciate it.
- October 29, 2007 11:27 AM
- Dex said...
possibly because i enjoy having fun at football games.
and how does makeshit not garner a squiggly red line from my browser. damn technology.
- October 29, 2007 11:40 AM
- Christopher said...
The SEC has banned certain noisemakers - specifically cowbells - and can fine or penalize the home team. Maybe that's what he was referring to, but he sounds pretty uninformed, so who knows.
- October 29, 2007 11:54 AM
- CrimeNotes said...
He also tried to censor or shut down the Every Three Weekly a few years ago.
After the Every Three Weekly printed an issue that included three stories about student athletes — including one, headlined "Phelps To Major In Pussy," that skewered University student and Olympic gold medalist Michael Phelps — Executive Associate Athletic Director Michael Stevenson said he felt obligated to approach the newspaper and the UAC executive board, which controls the newspaper's funding.
"I think that that kind of satire is unbecoming to any student at the University," Stevenson said. "It adds nothing to our campus community to have that kind of discussion."
- October 29, 2007 12:31 PM
- i rub howard's rock said...
dan devine contacted the acc refs before the clemson/notre dame game thirty years ago. said he wanted a penalty called if his players couldn't hear montana call the plays because he heard that clemson had a "noise problem". dan ended up getting an unsportsmanlike conduct call for extending his middle finger in gesture to our fans who did not shut up for 4 quarters.
- October 29, 2007 1:08 PM
- Yost said...
I don't want anybody's head. But you have to admit that such a position regarding crowd noise is an odd one coming from someone in the athletic department.
- October 29, 2007 2:07 PM
- Matt said...
Michigan should fire his ass to send a message that this sort of silence will not be tolerated.
Seriously, he's a feel-good pussy. I bet he was watching horse-racing on Saturday and not the game. Oh wait, horse-racing is too masculine for this clown. It was probably the equestrian obstacle course or whatever you call it.
- October 29, 2007 2:28 PM
- TitleIX said...
My point is that the initial post was pure hyperbole based on hearsay and a de-contextualized description of events. And dezzi, you went right off to the races with the call for getting this guy canned? Are you kidding?
Apparently the football reporter from The Daily was there so maybe he can enlighten us? maybe I'm completely wrong.
And no, I'm not signing ANY contract regarding the veracity of leprechans....
Many on this blog ridicule and complain about the F*ck Michigan shirts that abound and how we are treated so poorly by other 'fans', but then you want to burn some administrator at the blog-stake for discussing appropriate fan behavior AT AN ETHICS FORUM?
Maybe I get today's wet blanket award.
Sorry Yost.
- October 29, 2007 2:30 PM
- Cedrick said...
HAHA! - from BTO (in East Lansing, not at work in Ann Arbor).
Of course, my glee will only last until next weekend.
- October 29, 2007 2:33 PM
- Yost said...
How do you equate the ridiculousness of keeping the crowd quiet with vulgar fan behavior? Seriously, you know as well as I do that the post wasn't advocating that. You know that b/c you know I abhor such behavior. Being loud doesn't mean one has to shout obscenities.
Oh, and because I was so stunned about a member of Michigan's athletic department allegely advocating such a strange POV, I did contact the Daily reporter for confirmation. Only then did I put up the post.
- October 29, 2007 2:49 PM
- Yost said...
PS And no wet blanket award, T9. Your opinion, even in disagreement, is always welcomed and valued here.
- October 29, 2007 3:20 PM
- Sundawg said...
Limit crowd noise, did I read that correctly? So when you defense is on the field and the players are waving their arms in the air, what they really want you to do is sit in your seat with your knees together, hands in your lap and FOCUS on your opponents. FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS! Does this guy wear bow ties?
Other than a good "Bullshit" when the officials screw up a call, there's really no place at the games for the vulgarity.
The SEC will withhold laughter until this policy is actually implemented (snicker).
- October 29, 2007 3:36 PM
- TitleIX said...
Thanks Yost for your support, even in disagreement. I love what you and Benny do here and would miss the opportunity FOR SURE!
My opinion about crowd noise did a 180 after my brief, but fun experience on the sidelines for the ND game.
The bowl DOES angle up and out and even at the kickoff I didn't have to yell to talk to the guy next to me.....it was totally weird.
I'm all for yelling, stomping, filling empty cider jugs with coins, cowbells, and the band. I'm just not so sure how much effect it has given the current configuration of the stadium. Seriously.
Look---no one allows airhorns at certain sporting events or even whistles for that matter because of the negative effect they can have on the competition or play of the game itself. Perhaps what Stevenson meant was that the noise shouldn't hurt the game in that same way? Perhaps there is a balance between supportive cheering and sonic interference????
Fan behavior is an interesting and curious thing. But, perhaps the moral of the ethics story hear is that sports should stay passionate and not cerebrational? (not a typo nor an ethnic slur...)
- October 29, 2007 3:41 PM
- Devil said...
"Why don't we all just stay home and watch it on the BTN instead?"
Ummmmm . . . because nobody actually GETS the Big Ten Network?
Take care,
- October 29, 2007 5:28 PM
- Bryan said...
"...it sounds like he might better enjoy the atmosphere at the undergraduate library?"
No way. The Ugli is way too loud for this guy. He sounds like he'd prefer the law library.
- October 29, 2007 5:50 PM
- Simon said...
Mentioned on the Daily's Sports Blog
- October 29, 2007 6:16 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
You are what is wrong w/ michigan football. Yost posts a perfectly good story based upon rumor and innuendo, fires up the faithful for a good old fashioned lynching, and what do you do? Advise calm, reason, and rationality. Dammit woman! What has any of that got to do w/ football or hangings?
If you can't demand the firing of an assistant AD over an email and half backed rumor, what's the sense of reading blogs or being a fan? We don't come to the internet for the truth. We come for the entertainment. And a good witch hunt is far more entertaining than sitting around investigating things. What's next? Forming a committee to look into the matter?
And here in lies the problem w/ the football team- too damned many rational people like you in the stands, cheering, making noise like crazy, watching other people sit on their hands. What good does watching and complaining do? None. It's not the people who don't cheer who are the problem. It's the people who do cheer but don't do anything to make the other people cheer that are the problem. Because the "sit down" crowd feels safe and secure, they stay staid and polite. The whole stadium stays proper. Hell, even our students yelling "you suck" is orchestrated and structured.
Do you think obnoxious tosu fans sit around debating the merits of making noise? Hell no. they get liquored up, go to the game, and if they see someone not making enough noise, they toss an empty beer bottle at 'em. Why waste time commenting on key jingling when you can just knock the snot of the first person you see doing it? The rest of the crowd can learn by example.
It's time for those of us who do cheer to take responsibility and do something (you know, a meaningless and futile gesture would be a good start). What Michigan football needs is far less rational and reflective thought and more impulsive, screw ball knee jerk violence and bad behavior.
And what better way to get the ball rolling than started than going after this poor schlock of an assistant AD? Screw the facts, let's fire up: www. Fire____Now.com, and go after him. It'll be good practice, entertain everyone, and if turns out we're wrong, we can always give him a good reference for his next job.
w/ tongue planted firmly in cheek,…
- October 29, 2007 7:18 PM
- CJGrape said...
I remember back in the 80s when Bo used to "play the crowd" in opposing stadiums perfectly--getting penalty after penalty assessed on the other team because Michigan "couldn't hear the signals."
Does anyone know if that rule is still in effect? I don't see it used any more. That could also have an impact on this discussion.
- October 29, 2007 8:08 PM
- MGoBlue93 said...
Jeez... could you imagine the noise in the big house of we could get it to sound like Yost???
Seems to me he lost credibility in his wishy washy attempt to say noise + hockey = okay; noise + football = bad.
Sounds like something which came out of James A. Boyle at College Parents of America.
- October 29, 2007 8:58 PM
- MJ4Ducks said...
Jeez, I wish it was a little quieter at Autzen this last week...visit http://blog.oregonlive.com/johncanzano/2007/10/colleen_bellotti_is_spitting_a.html
- October 29, 2007 10:41 PM
- Jessica said...
They threatened to make the band stop playing Temptation? I'm off to join the lynch mob - IF I can stick his head on a pole and parade it down State Street.
In no way do I advocate Michigan fans acting vulgar at football games. In my view, that's not only disrespectful to the other team, it's disrespectful to Michigan - if you're there, in Michigan colors, you're representing the university. But not wanting people to make noise in the stands? Did this guy stop to think about what that'd do to the morale of OUR team?
- October 30, 2007 12:28 AM
- TitleIX said...
love ya SiC!
- October 30, 2007 8:50 AM
- Mikoyan said...
A few years ago (okay more than a few years ago), I was a student at Eastern Michigan. We used to get a crowd to go to opposing stadiums. I went to one of the games at Western. Western was about to score so we started to get loud. We got loud enough to force them to false start twice. There was nothing the refs could do about it, since we weren't the home crowd.
I'm with the rest of the folks on this board. I don't have a problem with loud crowd noise. Cheering for your team should be a part of the game. Heck, even taunting the opposing team should be a part of the game. I draw the line when that behavior gets towards the lewd or vulgar.
Honestly, this guy sounds like one of the self-esteem folks that should not be in education. He sounds like one of the idiots that thinks that papers shouldn't be graded in red ink because it might hurt someone's self esteem. We need less of these folks.
- October 30, 2007 10:46 AM
- MGoBlue93 said...
cjgrape... yes, there used to be a crowd noise rule. I distinctly remembering Bo having the QB go to the ref a few times and the ref would come over the PA and announce that if the crowd didn't quiet down it would cost the home team a penalty.
Those days are long gone.
I also remember in the 80s, wasn't a student yet though, that Bo used to actually get pissed at the student section for being too rowdy.
By the time I got my first set of student tix, the damn close your mouth and wave your keys thing was in effect.
- October 30, 2007 8:41 PM
- Jafam said...
I think it is highly likely that the ideas apparently presented by Stevenson will be accepted as polite behavior before too long. After that, they could very well be made somewhat obligatory. It's how universities handle the possibility of something that could give offense. Here, there isn't even a "free speech" defense. If you don't like it, stick up for freedom of expression elsewhere.
- October 31, 2007 2:14 AM


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Census of Population and Housing, 1980 [United States]: Special Tabulations of Population 60 Years and Over (ICPSR 8533)
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These data, which correspond to tables provided in the documentation, summarize information on the United States population aged 60 years and over that was collected in the 1980 Census of Population and Housing. The tables were prepared by the Bureau of the Census at the request of the National Institute on Aging. Variables appearing in one or more of the tables are age (in single years or five-year intervals), sex, race (black/white), living arrangements (institutionalization status, household/group quarters, living in families/alone, relationship to householder, persons per room), income (source, personal level, family level, household level, poverty status), veteran status, educational attainment, urban/rural residence, marital status, nativity status, and Spanish origin. In some of the tables totals that exclude amounts allocated for missing data are provided for purposes of comparison. The variables for which non-allocated figures are included are age, race, institutionalization status, income, veterans status, educational attainment, marital status, and Spanish origin. The file contains a complete set of tables for the United States as a whole, for each of the four Census regions, and for each of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, and five territories.
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United States Department of Commerce. Bureau of the Census. Census of Population and Housing, 1980 [United States]: Special Tabulations of Population 60 Years and Over. ICPSR08533-v1. Ann Arbor, MI: Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research [distributor], 1987. https://doi.org/10.3886/ICPSR08533.v1
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No. If you already have a contract with a carrier, you can begin using a replacement phone immediately.
Once I receive my new phone, how do I get it working?
With a T-Mobile device, simply remove the SIM card from your old phone and transfer it to your new replacement phone. If you've lost your phone and need a new SIM card, you'll need to purchase one from a carrier store (cost is about $10). If you use Verizon Wireless or Sprint, call them and tell them that you would like to change devices. They will then transfer your phone number to your new phone (this usually only takes a couple of minutes) and you'll be ready to go.
Can I use these cell phones outside the United States?
T-Mobile devices generally will work outside the United States, but before you travel be sure to contact your carrier to ensure that your account is set up to make calls, send or receive text messages and/or use data services while you are abroad. Only certain "global" devices from Verizon Wireless and Sprint operate in most countries. If you are a Verizon Wireless or Sprint customer, consider buying an unlocked GSM phone and then purchasing prepaid cards from local carriers as you travel from country to country.
Do these phones come with a SIM card?
Can I use all of my carrier's data features with these devices?
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