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Monday, September 22, 2008
Streamlining Blessings
The problem with Blessings is that each class-spec has a different priority order for Blessings. Retribution paladins want Might, while Holy paladins want Wisdom. So class-based buffing only works if you have enough paladins to cast every Blessing. And if you have enough paladins to cast every Blessing, you could just as easily buff entire groups instead of classes.
Blessings would be easier to handle if the blessings were deliberately unbalanced. I.e. Blessing One is more powerful than Blessing Two which is more powerful than Blessing Three. Then assigning Blessings in an optimum fashion would be trivial. The first paladin casts Blessing One on the raid. The second paladin casts Blessing Two, etc. In all honesty, balancing the Blessings against each other--while appealing to our sense of symmetry--just makes life harder in raiding.
My suggestion for streamlining Blessings would be to combine Might and Wisdom into a single Blessing: Blessing of Faith. For the most part, Might and Wisdom are mutually exclusive. The priests being able to hit mobs harder with their staves doesn't really matter. The only classes that would benefit are Retribution and Protection paladins, Enhancement shamans, and Hunters. Even then, Wisdom is generally low priority for those classes.
Blessing of Faith would make it much easier to cover entire classes. You hit the Druids with Faith, and the Ferals rejoice over the Attack Power, while the Trees and Boomkins revel in MP5. No need to hand out individual Blessings. As well, Faith comes very close to being the best Blessing overall. The first paladin hands out Faith, the second hands out Kings, and the third hands out Sanctuary.
Next I would clean up the talent trees as follows:
1. Combine Improved Blessing of Might and Improved Blessing of Wisdom into Improved Blessing of Faith (improves Blessing of Faith by 10/20%) in the Holy tree in the same spot as current Imp Wisdom.
2. Make Blessing of Kings baseline at 6%. Add Improved Blessing of Kings (improves Kings by additional 2/4%) to the Retribution tree in the same spot as current Imp Might.
3. Add some other random Tier 1 Protection talent that Holy might like to dip into.
So essentially we have three blessings: Faith, Kings, and Sanctuary. Each tree specializes in one, so you can count on a Holy Paladin to have Imp Faith and a Ret Paladin to have Imp Kings.
Then streamline a bit further by having Greater Blessings buff the group instead of the class. That should make raid buffing on par with all the other classes.
There's still a little awkwardness around the fact that tanks probably have a different priority than the rest of the raid. But I think this system would be better than the current system, while not being too different.
16 comments:
I still say Blessing of Power is a cooler name. Faith is girly. :)ReplyDelete
Power is a terrible name. Totally un-paladin-like. I'm not thrilled with the word Faith, but Faith is better than Power.ReplyDelete
Blessing of Pwn? :P Seriously, how about Blessing of the Crusader? We no longer have Seal of the Crusader once the patch hits, so there would be no confusion. Although, Blessing of Faith sounds just fine, and I don't really find it girly. If your worried about girly, our class color is pink.....ReplyDelete
I also like the idea of having BoK made baseline. I do think that resuffling the Improved Blessings would be a pain though.
Maybe just leave everything where its at, but have the Holy tree increase mana regen, the Prot tree would have Improved BoK, and the Ret tree would increase AP.
Just throwing it out there :P
Psh, next thing you know you'll be trying to get Holy Power's name changed to Holy Faith. Ewwwwwwwwwwwww.ReplyDelete
Faith has nothing to do with attack power. I could see Faith working for the Mp5 portion (meditation-esque thing going on there) but it just flat out sucks for the offensive minded AP portion.
Crusader isn't bad. Perseverance maybe.
"Then streamline a bit further by having Greater Blessings buff the group instead of the class. That should make raid buffing on par with all the other classes."ReplyDelete
Actually, I believe that all of the group buffs are raid-wide now; Arcane Brilliance, Prayer of Fortitude, etc etc.
Maybe just leave everything where its at, but have the Holy tree increase mana regen...and the Ret tree would increase AP.ReplyDelete
This is not a good idea. You'll end up wanting the Ret paladin to cast Faith on the melee dps, and the Holy paladin casting Faith on the mana users, and we're back to where we started.
If there is to be an increase, there should only be one talent that deals with it. That way, one paladin is optimum person to cast the Blessing on the entire raid.
While I like this idea, somehow, I think because I'm used to the strange way Blizzard thinks, we'll just end up with PallyPower in the base UI and blessings will remain as awkward as ever.ReplyDelete
@ Rohan, good point. Maybe no Improvement to the Blessing itself? How about add an AP buff to Ret aura on a percentage, and an MP5 buff to Conc aura on a percentage? Improved Blessing of Might becomes Strength of Retribution. Improved Blessing of Wisdom becomes Holy Wisdom? It would achieve the same effect to a group as the Blessing would, but just through a different means. Auras are going raid wide now right?ReplyDelete
I don't really agree. The biggest problem with maintaining blessings is actually radically different specs within the same class, and the most common problem is pallies themselves.ReplyDelete
The most common (give that if you are talking blessings, you have at least one pally already) is a group with a pally tank and healer, who want completely different blessings (say, Light and Sanctuary on the tank, Wisdom and Salv on the Healer). The only saving grace is no one really minds Kinds. The proposed Blessing of Faith wouldn't help much here at all.
That's a really cool suggestion, can you post it to the Beta forums?ReplyDelete
Though I would argue that there IS a Hierarchy of Blesings. Blessing of Kings of the most powerful Blessing we have right now, followed by Salvation, then Wisdom/Might.
As usual, Rohan, you put it much more eloquently than I ever could.ReplyDelete
Go go blessing of the crusader:ReplyDelete
Wisdom + Might = Faith = Holy
King = Prot
Crusader = Ret
(Sanctuary becomes a self buff rolled into Righteous Fury please)
Blessing of the crusader: decreases the global cooldown by 0.25s and increases haste by x
Improved blessing of the crusader: decreases the global cooldown by a further 0.125, 0.25s and haste by y/2y.
Go go blessings¬!
Sounds like a good idea to me.ReplyDelete
has Blizz changed the duration of said Blessings? I am not one of the lucky ones who have a Beta key so i wasnt sure. 10 min is really too short a duration and with Symbol of Kings taking up valuable bag space. especially for those of us who carry 1-2 extra sets of gear for blessing of swiss army knife.ReplyDelete
Paladin buffing is a pain in the neck both because of the mechanics and also because the paladin isn't the one who chooses how to buff, he is expected to accommodate every individual player's demands. So I came up with a terrible idea that is still convoluted, is bad for inventory space, and may be difficult to implement. But it makes the game and the raid do the work instead of we paladins, while not actually changing any blessings.ReplyDelete
What I've thought about is the idea of having a paladin create an altar, similar to a mage table or warlock healthstone thingamajig, which dispenses tokens representing each blessing that paladin in question can cast. Every raid member can take one token from each paladin's altar. Then the paladins just cast "raid blessing" and the game automatically applies blessings based on what tokens are in everyone's inventory.
Nifen, i like it. they could call it "knight's round table" or "table of chivalry" where the individual classes could have access to their own choice of buff. The paladin could then cast one raid wide buff that would effect all toons depending on their spec and play style. Then i wouldnt have to listen to the mages asking for "salvation" when we are in Alterac Valley"ReplyDelete


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California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players by TAMU Eagle
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Anne Hathaway dons cute gloves while arriving for her appearance on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart at The Daily Show studios on Monday (January 7) in New York City.
The 30-year-old actress was seen taking time to sign some autographs for fans who had waited outside the studio.
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All artists aatoth franyo CZIGÁNY Ákos feLUGOSSY, László Françoise GILOT GYŐRFFY, László Martin C. HERBST HERMAN, Levente JOVANOVICS Tamás KAZI Roland El KAZOVSZKIJ KESERÜ Károly KORNISS, Péter MISETICS, Mátyás MULASICS, László NEMES Anna RÁCMOLNÁR, Sándor ROZSDA, Endre SZIRTES, János SZOTYORY, László UJHÁZI, Péter VÁRADY, Róbert Sebastian WEISSENBACHER
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Guided Tour led by Péter Szabó Pettendi photographer at the Péter Korniss exhibitionGuided Tour led by Csaba Tóth art collector at the Péter Korniss exhibitionGuided Tour led by Gergely Dubóczky conductor at the Péter Korniss exhibitionGuided Tour with Anna Nemes2016
Guided Tours - GILOT | SZANYIFrançoise Gilot - Exclusive Guided Tour With Jane & Lance HattattVárfok 25 Jubilee Exhibition - Exclusive Guided Tour With Jane & Lance Hattatt2015
Book Launch: R25Guided tour: UJHÁZI 75 | MARCELL NÉMETHGuided tour through László Mulasics's exhibition2014
Guided tour through János Szirtes' exhibition titled MidnightGuided tour through the group exhibition entitled Angles and Borbála Szanyi's exhibitionGuided tour: Jovanovics & Keserü | BakonyiGuided tour at the Mátyás Misetics and Flavia PItiş exhibitionsGuided tour through the exhibitions of Nádler and Hollós
Guided tour through István Nádler's exhibitionGuided Tour at the Diving Lines ExhibitionGuided Tour at the Flower Power Exhibiton of Tóth Szilvi2012
Guided Tour at the Autoportraits Exhibition of Herman LeventeGuided Tour at the Exhibiton of Kékesi Donát 2012.09.29.Kékesi Donát Project Room OpeningMemento Portal 2012Hollós Ádám 2012 OpeningfeLugossy - Szirtes 2012 OpeningGuided Tour at the aatoth franyo ExhibitionGuided Tour at the Exhibition of Misetics Mátyás 2012. 03. 24.Guided Tour at the Continuiting exhibition of Peter Korniss 18. 02Guided Tour at the exhibition of Peter Korniss 11. 02. 2012Guided Tour at the exhibition of Peter Korniss 04. 02. 2012Christiane Peschek Szakasz Opening 2012Guided Tour with Csiszér Zsuzsi at the exhibition of Gilot2011
Metamorphosis - Changes at Várfok GalleryGuided Tour at the exhibition of Françoise GilotGuided Tour at István Nádler: SpiralGuided Tours at the exhibition of Lucid DreamGuided Tour at Mathias Schauwecker's exhibitionGuided Tour at the exhibition of "In the Blink of an Eye" 11. 06. 2011Guided Tour at the exhibition of "In the Blink of an Eye" 04. 06. 2011Guided Tour at Zsuzsi Csiszér's exhibition entitled DiaryGuided Tour at the László Mulasics exhibition II.Guided Tour at the László Mulasics exhibition2010
A Selection from Várfok Gallery's BestiaryGuided Tour with László GyőrffyGuided tour at the On Paper and aatoth exhibitions - 201020092007
Emerging talents, fresh tendenciesArtists
Read more about the activity of Várfok 14 Studio Gallery Foundationread more


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Our Best Fall Comfort Foods
Flash-Braised Pork Chops with Apples and Cream [1]
Braising sounds slow, but it can be weeknight-fast. After a skillet sear, pork rib chops and apples simmer in cider for 10 minutes. A swirl of cream and Dijon makes a luscious pan gravy at the end.
Bacon-Pear Macaroni and Cheese [5]
Crispy bacon, extra-creamy cheese sauce, pears sauteed in brown sugar and butter. It took our Test Kitchen three tries to get all the pieces right for this fall comfort food. Oh man, was it worth it.
Spiced Wine-Braised Short Ribs [9]
Short ribs are a splurge, but the payoff is enormous—meltingly tender meat and big beef flavor in the mulled-wine-esque sauce. Serve with mashed potatoes or creamy polenta. If time allows, make this dish ahead; it's easier to skim the fat after it has chilled, and the flavor only gets better.
Barbecue-Sauced Meat Loaf [13]
This easy, saucy meat loaf makes a quick weeknight dinner—and a great sandwich the next day! We love it between slices of whole wheat bread with banana peppers, lettuce, onion and extra barbecue sauce.
Spiced Apple Tarte Tatin [17]
This easy, French-style upside-down apple tart relies on frozen puff pastry. The spice flavor comes from Chinese five-spice powder, a widely available blend with flavors of clove, black pepper and star anise.
Roasted Broccoli with Pecorino and Lemon [21]
Roasting broccoli is a wonderful change from steaming or stir-frying, bringing out a sweetness and complexity you might not have known was there. A simple finish of bright lemon and salty cheese adds a burst of freshness and flavor.
Cinnamon Pretzels [25]
Sugary cinnamon meets salty pretzels in this super-easy, giftworthy snack mix.
Cinnamon Pretzels [26]
Blueberry Thunder Muffins [29]
A sprinkle of cinnamon-sugar gives a sweet crust to these berry-packed muffins.
Short Ribs over Cheesy Polenta [33]
Cooked this way, short ribs give you a delicious, dressed-up dish with hardly any work. A hint of licorice from fennel accents the recipe.
Colossal Chili [37]
Long, slow simmering melds flavors in this recipe from the Spice House in Evanston, Illinois.
Colossal Chili [38]
Coffee Cake Ring [41]
Veggie Cheese Chowder [45]
This easy soup combines colorful veggies—corn, chopped green or red sweet pepper and sliced celery—with cream and three types of cheese products for a pretty, flavorful dish.
Cinnamon Carrots with Maple Thyme Butter [49]
These sweet oven-roasted carrots are a perfect complement to a holiday menu, but they're easy enough to be a weeknight side. This comfort food recipe comes from Big Cedar Lodge in Ridgedale, Missouri.
Peanut Butter Buckeye Brownie Cheesecake [53]
Dawn Moore of Warren, Pennsylvania, grew up sampling buckeye candy from neighboring Ohio. It was the muse for this outrageously rich and creamy dessert she created.
Peanut Butter Buckeye Brownie Cheesecake [54]
Stuffed Italian Meatballs [57]
Spiced Italian sausage encases melty mozzarella cheese for meatballs perfect dipped in marinara sauce, stuffed into a calzone or plopped on top of spaghetti.
True Butterscotch Pie [61]
The trick to the filling in this Iowa State Fair prizewinning recipe? Stirring and stirring while it cooks. The recipe comes from Louise Piper of Garner.
Cinnamon-Spiced Beef Stroganoff [65]
A few pinches of pantry spices jazz up the traditional sour-cream gravy. This cozy weeknight dish dances on the line between comfort food and curry.
Chinese Five-Spice Marinated Pork Satay [69]
Although it sounds like it would be burn-your-mouth-hot, the five-spice powder in this fall comfort food is actually a mild blend that commonly consists of star anise, anise seed, cloves, cinnamon and ginger.
Potato Chips Meet Fish [73]
How do you get your family to eat fish? By serving them tilapia coated with potato chips, herbs and honey-mustard dressing.
Pumpkin Chili [77]
This recipe, submitted by Melanie Madore of Ashland, Missouri, was a finalist in our recipe contest. Unlike many pumpkin chilis, what sets this one apart is using cubed pumpkin (or butternut squash) rather than canned.
Pumpkin Chili [78]
Valencia Delights [81]
Orange and chocolate: a cookie match that tempts everyone to take seconds. This recipe comes from Jill Drury in Milwaukee, who loved to bake cookies with her grandmother. "For the longest time I couldn't decide which cookie I liked best, until one day Grandma had me mix my favorite flavors: chocolate and orange," she says.
Valencia Delights [82]
Farmers Market Brownies [85]
Patrick Groth, owner-chef of Incredibly Delicious, says these ingredients should be mixed and placed in the oven as quickly as possible for best flavor. "We sell these at the local farmers market. They are really good with fresh whipped cream and berries," Patrick says.
Starker's Bacon and Cheese Curd Burger [89]
Sugared bacon and melting cheese curds or string cheese make a mouthwatering filling for these behemoth burgers. The recipe comes from chef/owner John McClure of Starker's Restaurant at Country Club Plaza in Kansas City.
Pumpkin Bread [93]
The innkeepers at Burchell's White Hill Farmhouse Inn in Minden, Nebraska, make this moist spiced bread using homegrown heirloom pumpkins, but this version of their recipe uses canned puree.
Pumpkin Bread [94]
Cranberry Sausage-Stuffed Pork Chops with Pumpkin Gravy [97]
This recipe from Linda Kay Drysdale of Riverview, Michigan, won the $10,000 top prize in one of our Best of the Midwest recipe contests. Linda's recipe calls for chops cooked in a pressure cooker, which reduces cooking time to a fifth of the oven version. Watching calories? Half a chop satisfies most people.
Cranberry Sausage-Stuffed Pork Chops with Pumpkin Gravy [98]
Grilled Sirloin Kabobs with Zesty Top City Sauce [101]
Joann Gough-Stallbaumer of Topeka uses Kansas top sirloin steak and a horseradish-mayo dipping sauce in her prizewinning recipe.
War Eagle Mill Buttermilk Biscuits [105]
"My recipes are like my children. I'd hate to single one out as a favorite," says Zoe Caywood, who worked for many years as a miller at War Eagle Mill just east of Rogers, Arkansas. These biscuits are from one of Zoe's cookbooks. The recipe blends wheat and all-purpose flours for a fuller flavor than traditional biscuits.
Rise and Shine Cranberry-Apple Crisp [109]
Spiced coconut streusel adds crunch to healthy apples and berries.
Ozark Blackberry Cobbler [113]
A sugared crispy pastry covers sweet juicy berries in this traditional dessert from the Monte Ne Inn near Rogers, Arkansas.
Ozark Blackberry Cobbler [114]
Italian Rice Salad [117]
Italian Rice Salad includes fragrant, nutty-tasting brown basmati rice, bell peppers in a variety of colors, red onions and plenty of garlic. "It's kind of soft, kind of crunchy, a little sweet and a little tangy," says Ohio cooking school expert Bev Schaffer, who gave us the recipe.
Italian Rice Salad [118]
Cranberry-Sauced Meatballs Appetizer [121]
Shape and bake the chicken meatballs ahead of time, then pop them in your slow cooker with cranberry and barbecue sauces.
Chicago-Style Deep-Dish Pizza [125]
Before we published this recipe, getting deep dish usually meant heading to Chicago. We helped bring the yeasty crust, spicy sausage and tomato topping home. Originally published: June 1987.
Spiced Pumpkin Bisque [129]
The Inn at Irish Hollow in Galena, Illinois, serves this creamy, curried soup throughout the fall and winter. You can make your own crème fraîche for the garnish, or use purchased crème fraiche or sour cream.
Spiced Pumpkin Bisque [130]
Hash Brown Casserole [133]
Here's a somewhat lightened version of a popular potato casserole recipe that's great for brunch, dinner or a potluck.
Hash Brown Casserole [134]
Download our FREE printable collection of 10 top casserole recipes [135]
Porketta Roast [138]
Beef and Bulgur Soup with Chickpeas [142]
Several spices flavor this low-cal soup, including cumin, ginger and garam masala.
Spiced Pecan Sweet Potato Cake [146]
Deborah Biggs of Omaha completes this amazingly moist dessert with Maple Whipped Cream.
Smoked Barbecue Ribs [150]
Minneapolis amateur barbecue competitor David Fries shares his recipe for succulent smoked ribs.
Smoked Barbecue Ribs [151]
Sassy Baked Beans [154]
Mix and match different kinds of beans and meat to suit your preferences. Our smoky-sweet baked beans will beat canned beans every time!
Sassy Baked Beans [155]
Caramel Heavenlies [158]
Graham crackers form the base for this bar cookie with layers of marshmallows, brown sugar, almonds and coconut. "I've made these cookies since 1984," says Georgine Simmonds of Genesee, Michigan. "They're one of my family's favorites."
Caramel Heavenlies [159]
Cloverleaf Rolls [162]
These rich rolls with easy-to-handle dough won Best Bread of Show twice for state fair entrant Denise Turnbull of Monmouth, Illinois.
Cloverleaf Rolls [163]
Chicken and Corn Hash Brown Bake [166]
This comfort food hotdish offers a new twist on the usual hash brown casserole. Try it for everyday meals as well as potlucks!
Oven-Roasted Tomatoes [170]
The sweet tomatoes blend with tangy-mellow balsamic vinegar and basil. Serve with some crusty bread to soak up the liquid.
Oven-Roasted Tomatoes [171]
French Toast Sticks with Maple-Apple-Nut Topping [174]
Choose from several varieties of bread, including challah, whole wheat and cinnamon-raisin, for these easy French toast sticks. The Maple-Apple-Nut Topping makes this a standout dish. The recipe was inspired by RAGBRAI vendor Breakfast Delights.


text: Looks like on Jan 10th Big Red is set to start releasing OS 7.1 updates for the Bold 9930 and Torch 9850 BlackBerry devices. If you don't want to wait for the release, you can download the Sprint version of 7.1 in our site Downloads Center. Nice to see Verizon making an effort to update, but somehow I'm left wondering if it's just to milk $20/month off subscribers for the new mobile hotspot feature.


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CHICAGO – Andrew Shaw wore a swollen right eye.
"[Blues forward Steve] Ott finishing his hit," Shaw said with a shrug. "That's all."
Patrick Sharp wore a slash mark across the bottom of his handsome face.
"Right in the chin," Sharp said.
Duncan Keith wore a dark red scar across the inside of his right leg.
"I've got a few cuts and scrapes," Keith said. "That's playoff hockey."
As for Blackhawks captain Jonathan Toews, well, no obvious wounds were visible. But they certainly existed Sunday after the Hawks knocked out the St. Louis Blues with a 5-1 win in Game 6 of the Western Conference quarterfinals.
Spill the beans, captain.
What was your best souvenir from the series? Any cuts, bruises, scrapes to show off?
"No," Toews said with a sly grin. "None that I want to talk about."
Got it. The Hawks' captain has zero bumps and bruises, everybody. (Wink, wink.)
What a game. What a series. What a sport.
The Hawks erased a 2-0 series deficit to win four consecutive games against the Blues, who now will chase birdies and eagles while their division rivals continue to chase another Stanley Cup championship. Next up for the Hawks will be whichever team wins the series between the Colorado Avalanche and Minnesota Wild.
"[We're going to] get some couch time and relax," Hawks forward Bryan Bickell said, "and watch the games and see who we play."
The Hawks have earned some couch time. For that matter, I think all of us have.
Hawks coach Joel Quenneville gave his players Monday and Tuesday off as a reward for closing out the series and avoiding a winner-take-all Game 7 melee in St. Louis. The Hawks will return to practice Wednesday to prepare for their next opponent.
"It's a long battle in this series," said Quenneville, whose sleeves were rolled up as if he had just finished chopping wood in the backyard. "But I think the intensity and emotion, getting through this first round, was healthy for our team."
Here's to a healthy outcome.
Both of the Hawks' possible semifinal opponents are talented, especially the Avalanche. But none will match the big muscles and bare-knuckles aggression of the Blues, who stapled the Hawks to the boards whenever they had an opportunity.
Take Game 6, for example. At various points of the game, Ott slammed into Toews' left shoulder and crunched the captain against the sideboards, pounced on top of Toews in front of the Blues' net and hip-checked Toews moments after his goal.
"It doesn't get any more difficult than that, with the physicality of the series, the things that happened the first couple games," Toews said. "I think there's maybe some hatred between those two teams. I think you always see those storylines develop throughout a series, but probably especially in this one."
Give credit to the Hawks, then, for keeping their composure in all except for Game 2. Rather than turn the series into a tough guy convention, the Hawks played between the whistles and focused on beating the Blues with speed and skill.
The strategy worked.
After the final horn sounded and the Blues lined up to shake hands, it looked as if the Hawks had socked them right in the gut.
"This was six games, and it felt like nine games for both teams," Blues coach Ken Hitchcock said. "I'm sure Joel feels the same way. It was a long, hard-fought series, and both teams poured a lot into it."
But only one team could win the series, and it was the same team that is aiming for its third Stanley Cup championship in five seasons.
Get ready for more cuts, scrapes and bruises.
"I love this," Shaw said with a big smile beneath that swollen right eye. "I look forward to this all year. If we could just play playoffs all year, I'd love that."
• Shaw Media sports columnist Tom Musick can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.com and on Twitter @tcmusick.


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Priceless Lamborghini burns to the ground
Car enthusiasts might cry at this scene.
An original Lamborghini Miura P400 SV caught fire on the streets of London, burning to the ground. A video of the incident has been seen by more than 300,000 people since being posted to YouTube on April 6th.
According to Yahoo, the car was owned by a wealthy London property investor.
The Lamborghini Miura P400 is one of the first high-performance sports cars ever built, and it's a rarity to the see one on the road. The Italian car maker produced fewer than 800 Miura models between 1966 and 1972.
The Miura SV is even rarer. Top Speed reported fewer than 150 units were ever produced by the luxury car maker.
A Miura SV can fetch millions at auction. A prototype was auctioned off for $1.7 million in 2011, according to Top Speed.
Sadly, as Yahoo notes, a $20 fire extinguisher could have saved this automotive gem.


text:
Welcome to the second part of Countdown to the End of Time, an attempt to review the grand finale of Doctor Who's 'Davies Era' before having seen it by discussing everything else in human culture and constantly harking back to one quote in which Davies may, or may not, "sound like a buffoon."
Here's the first part.
And here's tonight's. In which we'll be moving from here...
"I don't think a beginning-middle-and-an-end ever goes out, but I might be wrong. Because I would say that, because I'm clinging to that hope desperately. And maybe the fact that a video game, or a Second Life or a Sims situation never ends...maybe that's the shape." - Davies.
...to discuss British television's tenth season of Big Brother and DC Comics' Final Crisis. Mister Internet has already had plenty to say about both, but I think the connections between these two problematic summer events remain criminally under-explored.
What about The Sims though, eh? What's happening there?
Well, nothing. Nobody comes, nobody goes, it is terrible. I'm talking here about the first two games, as I've not yet played the third, but the really striking thing about them is the way that nothing actually happens in the game, but an awful lot seems to happen in your head when you play it.
The Sims, the most popular computer game franchise of all eternity, involves directing little pretend people to use the toilet and feed themselves as you immerse yourself in what you'll often hear described as "a virtual sitcom" or "a virtual soap." Except...none of the things that routinely happen in sitcoms or soaps can ever possibly happen in the game. No Sim will ever comically misunderstand something another Sim has said, leading to a wacky series of hijinks and social embarassment. No Sim will ever unexpectedly reveal herself to be another Sim's long lost sister. The game will track who's friends and enemies with who, and will stage little set pieces, but no stories can ever really happen within the game. You might get turned into a vampire or social services may take your kids away, but none of those 'plots' are going to develop. The best you'll get is "SimA is cheating on SimB with SimC. SimB discovers and is cross with SimsA&C" over and over again.
But...but...but...as anyone who's ever lost hours to a Sims game know, the above is a load of bobbins. All sorts of stories happen when you play it!
Here's a site where people have uploaded lots of the lovely little Sims they've made. And here's some of the things they've been saying about them...
Mia grew up in a strict christian family and was a very easy and kind child who loved playing the piano and dreamt about being a human rights attorney. It wasn't until she went to University and got new free spirited friends that she gave herself a total makeover, inside and out. She did study law for one semester but dropped out because she thought the level of education provided did not meet her needs. She then moved in with her boyfriend Leon who lived in the not-so-glamorous part of the city.
That's the story that Mia's creator experienced while playing The Sims. The exciting thing though, is that the computer she was playing it on had no idea. When Sonic the Hedgehog collects a magic ring or Pac-Man noms up a ghost then flags are flipped and variables altered so that the game 'knows' this has happened. But the game never knew that Mia wanted to be a human rights attorney or that her parents were Christians. The game doesn't even know what human rights attorneys or Christians are.
The Sims is so popular among people who don't play computer games because you don't play The Sims on a computer. You play The Sims in your imagination, where Mia has her dreams and her regrets, while staring blankly at a rather banal computer game in which Mia is making a sandwich. At least one acclaimed novelist, Fay Weldon, is a Sims addict and it's easy to imagine her sat there, projecting inner lives onto her Sims as real as those of Ruth Patchett or Praxis, or...okay, I've only ever read two Weldon novels. It's like your mind furnishing a mirage just to break the monotony of a desert. It's like Dickens, looking into his fire. And what different ideas he and Weldon would have about how to end Mia's story.
Now, on outing yourself as a Big Brother viewer, one of the first things that people who don't 'get' the show will say is, "I don't know you can watch a load of people sitting there doing nothing."
You can probably see where I'm going with this. So before we go there, lets take a moment to see what all this has to do with Final Crisis and Doctor Who season finales.
From the perspective of Grant Morrison, the writer of Final Crisis, then his work is adjacent to the Who finales. As he said of Season Four's finale (Journey's End), "what intrigues me most are the numerous, absolutely coincidental, similarities to my comic FINAL CRISIS [..]which leads me to believe that creative people, particularly those writing or recording with a mass or populist audience in mind, have all begun to tell a very similar [...] story."
But from Davies' perspective, Big Brother is (or rather was) adjacent, being just the sort of event television to which his Who finales aspire, as we discussed in the last part.
I love reality TV. I get pissed off when actors complain there's no drama on television. Big Brother is drama; it is crafted, it's a story well told.
Not that they make such strange companions. Final Crisis and Big Brother 10 have a couple of very important things in common. Firstly there're both successful failures...BB10 took the crafting of stories within reality TV to new heights, but managed to get the entire show sentanced to a lingering execution. Final Crisis managed to pull off the trick of providing a fitting conclusion to three incongruent epics, all of which have run for between twenty and forty years, while dramatising withing a superhero fight-book a shift from a Hegalian to a Derridian dialectic and possibly inventing an entirely new category of fiction... but it failed to bring its audience with it. They carried on buying it, unlike BB's audience who just switched off, but my god did they bitch.
The more interesting thing though is that they both began after they finished.
The tag-line for Final Crisis' advertising was 'The Day Evil Won'...but when in the story did this victory take place? Well, 'evil winning' here means the victory of Darkseid, a GOD OF EEEEVIL, who it turns out has defeated the GODS OF QUITE NICE in a final battle. After that nasty turn of events then the story is over and there's nothing left for the comic to show us except the superheroes coming to realise that the story is over, and then finding a way to jumpstart it.
Steven Grant once wrote that "Story in Final Crisis isn't story, as traditionally understood in western literature" and (although I couldn't disagree more with his 'apotheosis of mad ideas' reasoning for having said that) I think this is spot on. We're not reading a story in Final Crisis, we're seeing a dramatisation of what might happen to a fictional universe and its inhabitants after there isn't any story left.
In 2008, Deepak Chopra, did a panel at San Deigo with Morrison and came out with this...
"If you had only creativity and evolution, you would have no universe," he said. "If you had only destructive forces, the universe would dissipate into a black hole." Chopra clarified, "you need the tension between the two forces."
He said the message of the superhero is "keep winning, but don't win."
This is literally what Final Crisis depicts, right down to the black hole. Evil has won, the story has ended and the fictional universe in which it played out is now collapsing into a fictional black hole.
But again...when did Evil win? In the first issue? No. If it had actually happened there the series would have contained trace elements of story. More than trace elements really - having 'The Day Evil Won' anywhere in Final Crisis would have been like having a veal escalope anywhere in a vegan carrot cake. So Morrison had it happen in his 2005-6 Seven Soldiers series. And even there had it happen off-screen.
The story ended about three years before Final Crisis began. Evil won...but since a conclusive win for either good or evil leaves a fictional universe with nothing to do, then the victory was unsustainable. Darkseid, the GOD OF EVIL, began a slow fall down into a black hole, dragging the whole of Superheroland down after him.
The moral here is that if you live inside a story, it might not be a good idea to end that story.
So, if Final Crisis was over before it really began, what actually happens in its seven issues? Well, Superman saves us all, naturally. He couldn't do anything else. But this time he can't operate within the story - flying in to save the day - this time he has to rebuild it. Bolting together scraps of meaning and bleeding chunks of narative.
We'll come back to how he goes about this later on. Because now we've returned to "these fragments I have shored against my ruins" territory then it's time to enter the Big Brother house.
Big Brother is the purest form of reality TV. Grab a load of people, lock 'em in a house with Not Much to do, and let the public successively reject them. As Final Crisis argues that the figure of Superman can 'contain' all other superheroes, Big Brother can contain all other reality TV. But before its tenth UK season started, it had already finished.
Big Brother considered as 'cultural event' concluded with the Shilpa Shetty incident and the Passion of the Jade, that grizzly chain of events discussed in the previous article. At the height of that controversy, Davina opened a BB episode with the words, "Good evening. This is the news." and she was right. But this proved to have been the telos of the Big Brother phenomena, and Jade's death three month's before the start of the tenth season capped off the era in which Big Brother mattered.
Also broadcast before BB10 was the conclusion of Big Brother considered as 'drama' or 'story'. This took the form of Dead Set, a five part horror thriller that played out the ever-popular Zombie Apocalypse scenario from the perspective of those making a season of Big Brother and those locked in the house. With all the tropes of the show in place, and continuity with previous seasons established by cameos from previous housemates, then to all intents and purposes, Dead Set was the tenth season of Big Brother. And it came with a proper end - the logic of rejection and the power we attach to shouty ignorance (Big Brother's major themes) GET US ALL KILLED BY ZOMBIES. In its closing shots, Dead Set reached a conclusion that turned the nine previous seasons of Big Brother into a narative. "Here's what this show has said about people. Here's why, if we can't escape that, WE'LL ALL GET KILLED BY ZOMBIES." Viewed as one text, Big Brother and Dead Set make a very similar case to Cloud Atlas.
So, with Big Brother's narative concluded, the producers of BB10 were in the same situation as the heroes of Final Crisis - having to build a story out of scraps. But of course, that's what they do every year, innit? Film a load of people, give them a few paltry party games, edit it into a drama. That's the skill of making reality televison, the skill Davies applauds when talking about BGT's Susan Boyle moment...
And BB10's producers rose to that challenge, turning incident into story like never before. This year the episodes weren't just themed around particular characters, with a clear trajectory across the hour...this year we had ongoing story-arcs. I'll never know how they managed this considering that they were transmitting these episodes only a day behind the events in the house, but they got thier stories to progress and develop.
And even, somehow, they managed to get in plot twists. We watched first creepy stalker Sree and then creepy stalker Marcus hound poor Noirin into the ground...until circumstances with Siavash pulled the rug out from under us and revealed how in control Noirin really had been all along. Filming a bunch of events, editing them to get out the next night and repeating this process every day for three months ought to result in the 'Sims or Second Life' scenario, in pages from the infinite book. But in Big Brother 10 it sustained a classical, beginning-middle-and-end structure for the whole summer.
Didn't help much though. Everybody stopped watching and Channel 4 chose not to bother renewing thier contract for the show. They've one more season they're obligated to make next year, then that's it.
So, why? Why did a "crafted drama, a well-told story" fail so badly?
I suspect it's because its viewers were happier playing The Sims - looking into the fire and seeing the Pickwick Papers, watching an animated lady make a sandwich and seeing a thwarted human rights attorney. The nightly Big Brother 'highlight shows' had always been directive and selective, but in previous years they'd existed as part of a Big Brother that was also made up of podcasts, psychology shows, all sorts of other nonsense and, most importantly, a live feed of footage from the house - a true chance to watch people sitting around doing nothing and imagine what might be the story there.
The live feed was, being unspeakably boring, the closest thing to playing The Sims or Dickens' fireplace, but even if you never watched it, just knowing it was there was a guarantee of the fact that other interpretations of what was going on in the house were not only possible but were part of the game of watching Big Brother. In the show's heyday it wasn't unlike Joss Whedon's idea of Firefly being, "a show about nine people looking into the blackness of space and seeing nine different things" except it was a show about Dermot O'Leary looking into a house and seeing gentle absurdism, Davina McCall looking into a house and seeing romantic comedy and Russell Brand looking into a house and seeing...well, this sort of thing...
Rosebud the Horse: Rosebud the Horse is a very polite and well-spoken character who allegedly lives with Brand in his home, in which he works as his slave and is often mistreated and forced to carry out perverted misdemeanours by members of the "Womanising Circuit" including Beppe di Marco, Dean Gaffney amd David Walliams. He dresses in the style of a country gent, with tweed jacket, smart shirt and tie. He is often treated badly by Brand; in one episode he slapped him in the face.
That's taken from a Wikipedia list of characters who appeared on different Big Brother shows. I hope it makes my point that much of the draw of the British Big Brother was how spacious it was. How much room it offered for interpretation, nonsense and making stuff up.
But by BB10 then it'd all folded up and closed down. Davina McCall now presented the show, did all the interviews and editorialised about it all on Big Brother's Big Mouth. Her opinions were the only ones you got to hear at any length, and her opinions were far from impartial; one memorable interview saw her explaining to an evicted housemate that she'd 'understand' what a horrible person she was when she got a chance to watch the tapes. No one %$%$ with the Judge of all Evil.
But what died in Final Crisis?
The people putting together the hardback collection reckon it was Batman, and so they put a big sad ol' World's Finest Pieta on the cover. It's totally at odds with the roaring fury of the equivalent scene in the book, but makes a lot of sense if you're looking to shift some copies of the thing. "Here's the book in which Batman dies!" is a more obvious hook than anything I'm talking about tonight.
Though (spoilers!) Batman doesn't die at all. He's last seen alive and well, acompanied by a caption saying, "But the fire burns forever." Him being alive and well tends to go against the idea of him having died, and "But the fire burns forever" tends to go against the whole idea of 'dying'.
Because that's what really dies in Final Crisis. Endings.
The title's a joke, setting us up to think it's principally the end of DC's long-running sequence of 'Crisis' events, whereas in fact it's the Crisis of Finality. The death of finitude. The death of confinement.
We learn that story's really ending not so much because of the triumph of the GOD OF EEEVIL - no, that's just a symptom - but because the Monitors, those who stand outside of story and work to keep it neatly within its borders, have themselves been infected with story.
And since stories have ends...that means they're ending. And so is everything else.
Superman's solution is to find a happy ending. But there is only one.
Glen David Gold's novel Sunnyside sees Charlie Chaplin dealing with the same problem...
'How's the war?'
'It should be over by Christmas, they say.'
'Is that a fact?' Chaplin poured himself a glass of water from a pitcher he kept on the floor behind the desk. 'I was thinking. Comedies end with a marriage. What about tragedies?'
'Death?' Syd wished they weren't discussing tragedies. Tragedies made no money. He suspected his brother had no mind for them.
'No,' Chaplin said, 'Every story ends in death, if only you follow it long enough.'
'Every story is a tragedy, then. Can we just start rolling on the next picture? What's the setup?'
'No setup.' Chaplin was feeling a new vein of energy. 'No story ends happily. The happy ending is only about knowing where to end on a smile, at the very moment where fortune is still on the ascent. The open road. The wedding.'
'I guarantee you, when the war is over, we'll all be happy.'
'Something with come along to replace it.'
'There will be dancing in the street.'
'Until there isn't.'
Syd tugged at his nose, a habit he had developed in the last year or two of these conversations. 'Then something good will happen again. Eventually'.
For Moore then Superhero stories' lack of fixity in time robs them of the chance of having a proper meaning, but for Morrison then that lack constitutes their meaning. Davies talks breathlesly of this with regard to Doctor Who, "Isn't that the best thing an idea can do, go anywhere, be anything, for anyone? [...] I think that's Doctor Who's greatest legacy - an imagination that goes way beyond the screen, and all the way into your head, where it's yours forever."
It's very much the same with Superman. Seagle's It's a Bird asks the question, "Can a fictional character save a real life in the real world?" and Morrison's All-Star Superman answers it definitively; the internet is lightly speckled with exchanges like this one...
jedidotflow : This is gonna sound a bit weird, but All-Star Superman #10 prevented me from committing suicide.
edosan: Not weird at all. Good to have you here.
Brian St. Claire : That isn't the least bit weird.
- There was an infinite and undifferentiated substance - the monad, the absolute, the monitor, the empty page.
- Then something appeared within that substance - the multiverse, the ink, the story.
- The empty page began to mimic its contents and adopt the condition of narative...it turned from an undifferentiated and impersonal 'entity' into a pantheon of Gods.
- These 'Monitors' work to limit, control and contain story, while all the time enacting thier own - a plot that ends with the return of Mandraak, the Monitor who hates that there is now something instead of nothing, and wants it all gone.
- The end of the Monitors' hyper-story causes the stories they contained to conclude also. In Superheroland this means the victory (then death) of Evil, Earth falling into a black hole and Superman left alone as the world and the story fall apart.
- Mandraak turns up to eat the universe.
And how does Superman defeat him? Well, it's not really with a fight, but with a show and tell session. Supes fends off finality by demonstrating that his story is infinite. With a "Look up in the sky" he calls forth an army of characters who've been inspired by or ripped off from Superman, or even inspired by or ripped off from characters who've been inspired by or ripped off from Superman. Proof that he can do the best thing an idea can do... go anywhere, be anything.
This signal is receieved and understood...if the Superman concept is that free of fixity then it can even effect and change the Monitors' hyper-story. One of the Monitors has become a superhero, and is retrofitted into having been Mandraak's son. Together he and Superman pull iteration after iteration of the superhero myth out of thier A-SS; Superhero bunny rabbits, Superhero angels, Superhero poodles.
"There is no limit to what I can do," says the freshly-minted storytelling superhero god, and Mandraak dies complaining that this can't be happening - he'd read to the end of the infinite book and so knew that evil was supposed to win. What he obviously didn't know though was what a stupid notion 'read to the end of the infinite book' is.
Superhero-Monitor returns to his pantheon of meta-godly editors/game keepers/plot-police and tells them its time for them to stop pretending that they are the story. It's time for them to to become undifferentiated again and return to being the empty page. An empty page across which, without them limiting it, story can now spread out as far as it likes...in whatever direction it likes...in whatever shape it likes. Narative is left free not just of the finality of having to have a conclusion but of the finite boundaries of traditional structures. All Superman wanted was a happy ending, and we know by now what that means. The fire burns forever. To Be Continued. What's the set-up for the next picture, Charlie?
So, on one hand we've got Big Brother 10, which dealt with coming after its conclusion by clinging to the finite, and on the other we've got Final Crisis which actively rejected the finite and prised wide the infinite book.
And then, this December, we'll have The End of Time.
If Davies equates his finales with those of Pop Idol, and is modelling his drama on the SENSATIONAL MEDIA EVENT then something interesting's just happened...
Who's our winner? Will Young? Gareth Gates? Leona Lewis? Stacey Solomon?
It's Matt Smith.
The little Confidential special that they put out revealing him as the Eleventh Doctor was, in a very low-key way, more like the end of a series of Pop Idol/X-Factor than the actual drama can be. Considered as a media event then 'Matt Smith becomes our new Doctor/Pop Idol' is the end of the story, but considered as a media event then that's already happened.
The End of Time is going out after its conclusion.
And if it's going to satisfy, it'll have to find a crowd-pleasing way of doing what Final Crisis attempted. It will have to end time.
To Be Continued...


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Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350
Is the new Pontiac G8, going to steal sales from the more traditional ELLPS sedans with it's big V8 power and luxurious interior for a fraction of the price ?
I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product.
I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product.
lokki Posts: 1,200Prince Charming (or the the G8) always looks good in the publicity photos.
Many's the pretender who has claimed the title before, only to eventually go back to his job in the rental car trade.
We'll have to wait till we get a chance to dance with this one a little before we start dumping our current heros.
Oh, and regarding:
I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product
You might want to ask some of the executives at Volkswagen about that. They have some recent experience on that point.0
Prince Charming (or the the G8) always looks good in the publicity photos.
It won't in person. This car is essentially the Holden Commodore which was "World Car of the Year" I think.
Many's the pretender who has claimed the title before, only to eventually go back to his job in the rental car trade.
The G8, will not be a rental special because GM, is only going to import by demand for them.
We'll have to wait till we get a chance to dance with this one a little before we start dumping our current heros.
That is fair enough. I think you will respect it a lot. Your getting one hell of a lot of car for your dollar.
You might want to ask some of the executives at Volkswagen about that. They have some recent experience on that point.
Well VW, made a mistake by not giving the Passat more power. The "W" engine was a great one but VW made the mistake of not giving it more power via turbo charger. If the Passat would of made 320 hp. had a manual option, and perhaps a tighter sports suspension it would be more widely respected. I do think the current VW Passat is a respectable ELLPS car but it's sure not class leading. It's kinda like the Acura TL, it does nothing exceptionally well but does enough well to be desired. The one thing the Passat does very well is protecting it's occupants in crashes and that my friend you can't put a price tag on.
rhmass Posts: 263Somehow I don't think the poster meant VW Passat, but rather the Touareg to make his point.0
Well if he meant the Touareg, that was pretty sarcastic of him.
he meant the Phaeton.
People care about the badge.
Nobody wanted a 70k Volkswagen. And it was a good one.
At that price point, why have the A8.0
he meant the Phaeton.
That was an Audi A8. Has Audi always bee prestigious ? I remember in the 80's they weren't all that special to own because they had lots of eletrical problems but I guess because they are German they will be forgiven easier. :confuse:
People care about the badge.
I respectfully disagree. People that have money in the bank don't near as much as someone who has every dime spent come pay day so he/she can say "look at me".
Nobody wanted a 70k Volkswagen. And it was a good one.
Well Volkswagen, customer service was ranked dead last a few years ago. It also was a rebadged Audi 8 and they did nothing really to distinguish them.
At that price point, why have the A8.
The Audi, had better customer service records and the A8 was arguable the better lookin' one of the two. Well in my eyes it was.
However this is suppose to be a G8 vs Lexus IS 350 & BMW 335i. The bottom line is this if someone is shopping for the best car in the $30K range they will buy the as loaded $32-33K G8. The base models of both the Lexus IS 350 and BMW 335i costs more dough. The base Lexus IS 350 is $3K more than a loaded G8. The BMW 335i cost's $38K but just like the Lexus, how many base models is either company going to produce because most folks will want at least some features.
allargon Posts: 75Not a chance... The Pontiac G8 competes with the Avalon, the Lucerne, the Impala, the Ford 50..err..Taurus and the Nissan Maxima.
The Passat is a midsized car. The Pontiac is NOT an ELLPS--period. It's a full-sized sedan. It may even be a full-sized performance sedan. However, Pontiac is not nor has it ever been a luxury brand.0
holdenguy Posts: 145Guys, the G8 is a LARGE car, not puny like a 3 series Bimmer.
Wheels magazine here in Aus put it up against a 5 series Bimmer.
As I have said elsewhere here, It out handled, out grunted, out valued the Bimmer by a long way.
It was a v8 Bimmer, not a 6, against a v8 Calais.
The SS Commodore are selling like crazy here atm, I hope there are some left for you guys next year0
Well noted. When I saw the G8 at the Chicago auto show I too wondered about it's size comparison. It's kind of hard to gauge it when you can't sit in it . Any sites with specs and dimensions of the Commodore that compare it to the 5 (and others it competes with down under)? Something like the Compare tool here on Edmunds.
Not a chance... The Pontiac G8 competes with the Avalon, the Lucerne, the Impala, the Ford 50..err..Taurus and the Nissan Maxima.
What ??????
You are comparing apples to oranges. Again allargon, is a badge more important to you than the product ? I know many ELLPS buyers are more worried about the emblem on their cars than what the car has in terms of quality, reliability, performance, etc. The Pontiac G8, clearly has a interior that is as good if not better than the Mercedes C class when it comes to design and touch. The BMW 335i's interior isn't much more luxurious than the G8's which should tell you something's wrong with this picture. Maybe the Bimmer and Merc are living to much off of past success ???? The G8 is a high performance RWD performance sedan that has enough luxury to be a ELLPS car but because it wears a Pontiac badge instead of a Lexus or BMW it won't get the credit it deserves. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be considred by cross shoppers looking for the best product for their dollar.
Now don't get me a wrong I do find the new BMW M3 to be quite attractive but by gosh how much is it going to cost ? Would I like to own a 08' BMW M3 ? Ya betchya !!! The last generation M3 didn't give the customer value like the mid to late 90's E36?
The Passat is a midsized car.
And ? The CTS, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 are more midsize so what's your point ?
The Pontiac is NOT an ELLPS--period.
I agree all because the badge is preventing it. The greatness of the product as I explained above says otherwise. It has as much if not more technology, quality, fit & finish, than some of the ELLPS cars I described above.
It may even be a full-sized performance sedan.
What ? This car is like 6 or 7 inches shorter than a current Grand Prix. That might be fullsize to BMW owners but not in the rest of the automotive world.
However, Pontiac is not nor has it ever been a luxury brand.
I agree. That isn't what I'm arguing. You are making this a brand war. I'm simpily comparing product not badges. If you step back for a momment and take off the badges then perhaps you could then do a fair comparo.
I personally am confident enough in myself that I don't need to wear other peoples names on my [non-permissible content removed] or have a certain badge on my car in order to make a fair judgement about it. I guess some people need the badge more than the product? The G8, perhaps offers the best overall value in this comparo of performance, luxury, reliability, fit and finish, a long with by far best in class value which you can take that to the bank.
I had 2 Pontiac Grand Prix in my life. Nice cars. Now I can afford a BMW. Hope to get to the Ferrari/Bentley level real soon.
Why would I now buy a G8?????
Eye of the Tiger, Rock. Eye of the beholder!
I don't care about "Stinking Badges!" either. Get in the car and drive. Feel the difference. When I shop, I will always try US in the future to see how they are doing. Cadillac doesn't do it for me so last time, I left the edgy brand out.
What ? This car is like 6 or 7 inches shorter than a current Grand Prix
Check out http://www.velocityjournal.com/journal/2008/pontiac/16827sp.html for G8 specs. The wheelbase is actually a good 2+" larger on the G8 than the current GXP. Length is about 6" shorter than the current GXP. Both width and height are a smidge more on the G8. Interior room is very similar as well.
For comparing to the 5 series, check out this http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=100761595&styl- eid=100814243&styleid=100703682&styleid=100793075&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=- specs
The 5 series is actually shorter in length than the current GXP, but the wheelbase is a bit longer in the 5. Threw in the 3 series for reference and the Charger since it will likely be competing with the G8 as well.
Okay so it's a couple of inches shorter. I saw another site a edmunds.com member posted that showed their was a 6 or 7 inch difference. :confuse:
I've driven BMW's in the past and yes they are nice cars. Obviously your cash flow is much better than mine so yeah if you can afford Ferrari's and Bentley's you have reached the top. Congrats.....
My point in this comparo is to show us poor folks the G8 is a great ELLPS alternative without the badge but with a lot of goods. The Bimmer, is yes faster and probably handles better but it also costs thousands more just like the Lexus IS 350. The G8 is a drivers car with a great interior, lots of performance, for your buck. The Cadillac CTS, is all that and more. It has the badge and even more luxury. I'd love to own cars like your talkin' about like Ferrari's Aston Martins, Bentley's but even if I was that wealthy I'd never spend that kind of money on a car. The Cadillac XLR, Viper, Vette SS, would be as expensive as I'd go except I'd probably buy a mint Red 1994' Ferrari 512 TR my dream car. :shades:
Rock, you have good taste! I also want you to know that I really respect all of your viewpoints.
I am heartbroken that the US can not get out of it's own way in the automotive industry and spends way more cash developing bunker buster bombs that cost more than 10 years of all of Bently, Ferrari and Astin Martin Sales combined for a week of destruction in Iraq back in Dessert Storm.
Is the Lexus IS 350 ever going to get a hybrid motor ? I know a couple of years ago that was a rumor and was curious if this is in the pipeline or has Lexus decided their is no market for a high performance hybrid ?
riku Posts: 10highly unlikely since the IS-F is coming out with a 5.0L V8.0
Yeah you are correct but that doesn't mean their isn't a market for hybrid 3.5 IS350's as it would instantly got the being 2nd best to king of the ELLPS segment without it being considered a Factory Tuner Sedan
My post oviously got taken dowm. Well I will only say this pal and that is I also really respect your opinin
pat Posts: 10,421Your post was waaay off-topic... as are many of these recent ones.
Let's get back on track, okay?0
from_fl Posts: 113I have owned several GM, Ford cars. All had major problem. I will not buy them again.0
How do you know what the G8's interior feel's like, or if it's great at all?0
This is EXACTLY how to alienate customers just like FORD did with the 500. Most customers can't keep track of the numbers game and just peg to a familiar name.
Good-bye Grand Prix. Slow sales for the G8 predicted. GTO gone. Just blend Pontiac and Buick and get it over with.
Real good stuff. Marketing genius. G6 now G8...meaningless. GM will merge with Chrysler to keep this thing going. General Chrysler... must be Custer's last brother!
Prices for this rear drive Grand Prix replacement should start just under $25,000 for a base V-6 model, about $27,000 for a bare-bones GT, and into the mid-$30,000 region for a loaded GT.
Because I have read many reviews on the Holden Commodore.
andy82471 Posts: 120HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL :P . In your dreams Rocky. Pontiac is a damaged brand. Wagoner must be smoking something if he is dumb enough to compare Pontiac with BMW and Lexus.0
Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac. It is a Holden, with a pontiac emblem. Obviously some research might help instead of making knee-jerk assumptions about products found under a brand that might not have a favorable recent past.
I went for a test drive of the G8 so I could see how well the G8 stacks up against the competition. The test drive was a bomb as you might expect, none in stock.
Pretty easy to look at specs on paper and say Pontiac will own the world. The problem with GM products is they all look great on paper until you own and drive them.0
Absolute truth. I owned 2 and they fall apart quick. Perhaps that is why GTO and GP will be no more. Kind of tells me Pontiac will meet Olds fate shortly.
Just put all G cars under Buick and get it over with.
P.S. For the sake of the G8, we should hold off comment until actual experiences are known but I would NOT be too optimistic.0
I agree but let's look at this.
1. Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value.
Is this a fact or an opinion?
2. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P
Meaning what?
3. The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac.
Fact or opinion? I guess that is like saying the 2010 M5 isn't just another BMW. :confuse0
laurasdada Posts: 3,436Y'all just gotta appreciate ol' Rockylee's fervent belief that next year's (insert GM model here) will be the world beater that the current model was supposed to be. But isn't...
Just needlin'ya a bit there Rock. You really should wait until the next great GM thing hits the streets before claiming a new world order, though...
'13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.0
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Katy Perry Is Single Again
Katy Perry is back to being unattached. The 'Wide Awake' singer reportedly split with her PDA-loving boyfriend, Robert Ackroyd of Florence + the Machine.
Us Weekly reports that the extremely short-lived relationship came to an amicable end recently and that their hectic schedules are to blame. "It wasn't that serious," a source tells Us Weekly of Perry's relationship with Ackroyd. "It's not a nasty thing and they are still talking, but Katy told him to do his thing and they'll talk soon." Another source assured, "No hard feelings. She's really busy and so is he."
The couple first went public at Coachella — very public, as they were all over one another!
"Backstage at the Artist Lounge at Coachella last weekend, Katy kept saying her boyfriend was the guitar player for Florence + the Machine," a source said last month. "She and a bunch of friends were supposed to go see Dr. Dre together, but Katy said she was waiting to watch her boyfriend perform!"
It sounds like there's still an open door on this relaysh, so we'll see what happens when Perry takes that "f—ing vacation" she's been dying to have.


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Non-invasive intraoperative optical coherence tomography of the resection cavity during surgery of intrinsic brain tumors
Intraoperative optische Kohärenz-Tomographie zur Detektion von Resttumorgewebe während der Resektion intrinsischer Hirntumore
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|May 8, 2006
Objective: Spectral domain optical coherence tomography (SOCT) is a non-invasive imaging technique with a micrometer resolution. Optical coherence tomography can operate with no tissue contact, and similar to ultrasound B-mode imaging, can generate images in 2, 3, and 4 dimensional data arrays based on the reflection of infrared laser light using the inherent optical tissue contrast. We have developed this technology for intraoperative use and the detection of residual tumor during brain tumor surgery.
Methods: We have used a near infrared 830nm laser to analyse brain tumor tissue and areas of the resection cavity during resection of gliomas. The site of analysis was registered using a neuronavigation system and a biopsy was taken and submitted to routine histology. We have used post image acquisition processing to compensate for movements of the brain and to realign A-scan images for calculation of a light attenuation factor.
Results: OCT imaging of normal cortex and white matter showed a typical light attenuation profile. Tumor tissue depending on the cellularity of the specimen showed a loss of the normal light attenuation profile resulting in altered light attenuation coefficients compared to normal brain. Based on this parameter and the microstructure of the tumor tissue, which was entirely absent in normal tissue, OCT analysis allowed the discrimination between normal brain tissue, invaded brain, solid tumor tissue and necrosis. Following macroscopically complete resections, OCT analysis of the resection cavity displayed the typical microstructure and light attenuation profile of tumor tissue in some specimens, which in routine histology contained residual tumor tissue.
Conclusions: Spectral domain optical coherence tomography allows non-contact / non-invasive analysis of central nervous system tissues with a penetration depth of 2-3 mm, reaching a spatial resolution of approximately 4-10 µm. We have demonstrated that this technology may be applied to the intraoperative detection of residual tumor in situ.


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Prior to the invention of photography in the mid-19th century, the silhouette was considered an effective and inexpensive way to record a person's likeness or capture a scene. Although the practice can be traced back to the early 17th century, the term 'silhouette' derives from the harsh policies of the French finance minister Étienne de Silhouette.
The silhouette reduces an object to its most basic form. Its historical uses in art can be seen in the paper cuts of Hans Christian Andersen and the artwork of Kara Walker. In photographic terms, the silhouette is created in situations where the subject is back-lit. It can be used to hide a person's identity or highlight their distinctive features, and its graphic form is often used artistically to photograph sport and dance. It heightens drama, adds atmosphere and turns banal scenes into graphic wonders.
More than 200 years ago, the silhouette was the foremost way to document one's appearance, but it's still widely used in photographic frames today.
LightBox takes a look at the use of silhouettes on the wires over the past 12 months and presents a silhouette a day — 366 in all — for 2012.