text: Editing Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation 0 You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reasons: The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Users, FANDOM Staff, FANDOM Helpers, Wiki Managers, Content Team Members. Please log in to edit this wiki.Joining Narutopedia is free, and it only takes a minute.We hope that you sign in, and become a member of the community!Click here to log in or create an account more + You can view and copy the source of this page: The Narutopedia reserves the right to remove any question that could be answered by reading the article. {{ArchiveList}} == Bleeding == Can a Edo bleed? Otherwise how can they summon creatures?[[Special:Contributions/188.8.131.52|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:18.104.22.168|talk]]) 12:50, July 20, 2012 (UTC) :Yes they can. Itachi's eyes still bled after all and the Second Mizukage was able to summon his clam.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 13:05, July 20, 2012 (UTC) It appears they bleed only from self-inflicted injuries, in a sense like usage of a technique that harms their (or better say the host's) body etc.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:56, July 20, 2012 (UTC) It's the same as the way they are able to remove their own clothing and such, but if somebody else does they just regenerate. Probably also related to the way Tobi was able to insert Sharingan and chakra receivers into the Six Paths without them regenerating.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 20:19, July 20, 2012 (UTC) What about when Kabuto placed a mind control tag into Torune blood came from his mouth and made a sound of pain there was blood but it was self inflicted by Torune and I thought people brought back to life by edo tensei couldn't feel pain? and when people brought back to life by edo tensei are injured you don't see the sacrafice underneath so when kabuto implants the tag in there head wouldn't it fall out because there is no brain?? --[[Special:Contributions/184.108.40.206|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:126.96.36.199|talk]]) 21:48, August 31, 2012 (UTC) :Torune was drooling not bleeding and that looked like Fū making the "sound of pain". As for the rest of your question, this isn't a forum.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 10:42, September 1, 2012 (UTC) So he was drooling blood?? --[[Special:Contributions/18.104.22.168|188.8.131.52]] ([[User talk:22.214.171.124|talk]]) 17:09, September 5, 2012 (UTC) :People tend to drool saliva. had it been blood, the colour would have been darker.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 10:45, September 6, 2012 (UTC) == Itachi's Eyes == Itachi got blind after fighting sasuke from both his sharingan,and was resurrected with both of them normal Nagato had his legs injured, and came back with them still injured any explanation ?--[[Special:Contributions/22.214.171.124|188.8.131.52]] ([[User talk:188.8.131.52|talk]]) 00:37, August 17, 2012 (UTC) :Itachi's eyes were pretty bad, but nothing indicates he went fully blind before death. If how his eye looked after he used Izanami is an indication at least. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:30, August 17, 2012 (UTC) ::Nagato on the other hand could have simply "forgot" how to use his legs due to not using them for so long. It's akin to someone getting in an accident and needing rehabilitation to learn to reuse to limb, only Nagato had none of that.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 10:06, August 17, 2012 (UTC) Nagato's legs were long healed, the problem was with his brain/nerve endings--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:01, August 17, 2012 (UTC) About the use of the word "reincarnation". While that may be the title of the name in english, the technique does not actually reincarnate anyone. It resurrects them. The two words are very different. As such, the words "reincarnation" and "reincarnate", etc., should be replaced with the appropriate variants of "resurrection". [[Special:Contributions/18.104.22.168|188.8.131.52]] ([[User talk:22.214.171.124|talk]]) 03:40, September 1, 2012 (UTC) :That's what the term "tensei" means, and as such, it's the term to be used through the wiki. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 04:16, September 1, 2012 (UTC) People are returned to "life" using other people's bodies as vessels. It is incorrect to say there's any type of resurrection here unless you're using layman's terms in which case everything is a resurrection.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 09:54, September 1, 2012 (UTC) == Resurrected in the exact state they died in? == If edo tensei resurrects the dead in the exact state they died in wouldn't that mean for example Itachi would be resurrected in the state when he fought Sasuke near blind and in bad physical condition? Or Sasori he was resurrected as a human, didn't he die a puppet? Unless all resurrected by Kabuto are special like madara, they were resurrected when they were at their best. --[[Special:Contributions/18.104.22.168|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:126.96.36.199|talk]]) 22:17, October 12, 2012 (UTC) :For all we know, Itachi was near blind when he was brought back. And he wasn't in a bad physical condition, he was sick. A puppet can die, Sasori was brought back as a human because he was a human. Only Madra was a special case. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:31, October 12, 2012 (UTC) Well when he was "near blind" his sharingan or mangekyō had no tomoe seal just a grey eye like Sasuke's after his battle with Danzo and wouldn't he be resurrected near blind? Because he died near blind. What I mean is maybe Kabuto can resurrect them at any point in their life like he could have resurrected Itachi in the state before his battle with Sasuke. --[[Special:Contributions/126.96.36.199|18.104.22.168]] ([[User talk:126.96.36.199|talk]]) 22:54, October 12, 2012 (UTC) It resurrects them in a state from the time the DNA has been collected, except in Madara's case, works... doesn't it?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:18, October 12, 2012 (UTC) Kabuto must have gathered Itachi's DNA after Sasuke killed him... so why wasn't he resurrected near blind with grey eyes and no tomeo on his sharingan or mangekyō sharingan? See where I'm coming from? --[[Special:Contributions/22.214.171.124|18.104.22.168]] ([[User talk:22.214.171.124|talk]]) 23:23, October 12, 2012 (UTC) Who told you that? He could have had a bunch of his hair from a hairbrush.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:29, October 12, 2012 (UTC) I'm pretty sure hair doesn't count.. are you listening to what you're saying? that wouldn't be it. I can't imagine Kabuto getting Itachi's DNA while Itachi was alive... who told you it resurrects them in a state from the time the DNA has been collected? If so, is it 100% true? --[[Special:Contributions/188.8.131.52|188.8.131.52]] ([[User talk:220.127.116.11|talk]]) 23:33, October 12, 2012 (UTC) It says "Kabuto can also modify his summoned fighters, as he did with Madara Uchiha. While the technique usually reincarnates the deceased at the exact state they were in at the time of their deaths" not they are resurrected in the state when their DNA is collected.. to support this Kabuto says he graverobs to get the DNA he can't resurrect living people.. so for example he got Pakura's DNA while she was alive and killed her and resurrected her? --[[Special:Contributions/188.8.131.52|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:220.127.116.11|talk]]) 23:40, October 12, 2012 (UTC) Any DNA is sufficient, doesn't have to be only corpses/remains as he used blood and didn't specify what kind. I don't see why a genetic source from young Hiruzen should revive him as an old man. It's logical and explains basically what this topic discuss. No one says that, of course a living person can't be resurrected. The user can prepare the "zombie body" anytime though, the example being Minato. His soul wasn't available, but a host turned into "Minato" has been prepared.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:46, October 12, 2012 (UTC) So how did Itachi get resurrected to a point when his sharingan weren't near blind when he died? I thought it resurrects them in the state of their death. and I understand what you mean, but young Hiruzen's DNA wouldn't revive Hiruzen when he was young. --[[Special:Contributions/18.104.22.168|188.8.131.52]] ([[User talk:18.104.22.168|talk]]) 23:51, October 12, 2012 (UTC) Elveonora, no one ever said that the person is brought back according to how they were at the time the DNA was collected. And anon, hair does have DNA, but only the root of the hair if I'm not mistaken. Remember that DNA isn't the only necessary thing, the soul of the person is brought back as well. That is what probably accounts for them coming back as they were prior to death. I still don't quite see the point of this topic. Madara is the only exception of this, and that is accounted for in the article. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:53, October 12, 2012 (UTC) Fair enough.. I guess :P --[[Special:Contributions/220.127.116.11|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:184.108.40.206|talk]]) 00:50, October 13, 2012 (UTC) I mean how was Itachi resurrected with non-near blind sharingan when he died with near blind sharingan because of his battle with Sasuke? I thought edo tensei resurrects the dead in the state in which they died, that means his sharingan. --[[Special:Contributions/126.96.36.199|126.96.36.199]] ([[User talk:126.96.36.199|talk]]) 23:58, October 12, 2012 (UTC) @Omni@others, can you provide a source for Edo Tensei reviving people prior to death? Unless I'm mistaken, it's just as big assumption/conclusion as the statement of mine (which is more logical imo)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:03, October 13, 2012 (UTC) I'm sure Kabuto mentions it... --[[Special:Contributions/220.127.116.11|220.127.116.11]] ([[User talk:18.104.22.168|talk]]) 00:04, October 13, 2012 (UTC) "Then dust and ash encase the sacrifice's body, giving them the same appearance that the reincarnated had at the time of their death. The process is apparently somewhat painful as seen when Fū was used to reincarnate Torune." If they are resurrected with the same appearance they had at their death would they be resurrected in the state of their death? --[[Special:Contributions/220.127.116.11|18.104.22.168]] ([[User talk:188.8.131.52|talk]]) 00:09, October 13, 2012 (UTC) # no one provided a source yet, since "I'm sure Kabuto mentions it" isn't enough # please, instead of double posting, just edit your previous post # stop asking more question like if this was a forum before we conclude if what's written in the article is false or correct--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:16, October 13, 2012 (UTC) I'm not asking more questions... I'm asking the first, and only question which you haven't answered yet. Have you got any evidence that "It resurrects them in a state from the time the DNA has been collected?" --[[Special:Contributions/18.104.22.168|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:18.104.22.168|talk]]) 00:20, October 13, 2012 (UTC) That's not your original question, there is no source for date of acquisition of DNA playing any role. What is known about the technique is in the article, and further discussion is pointless. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:43, October 13, 2012 (UTC) Again, it was never stated to revive people/turn victims into other people as they were at the time of their death, either there's a reference to that or isn't, currently it's the latter. It should be removed, for it only to say: "Then dust and ash encase the sacrifice's body, giving them the same appearance that the reincarnated had" as the rest is a conclusion based on an assumption due to a lack of information, unless you can put me wrong and provide a quote from a chapter/databook page. What I have stated above is a possibility how it may really work, and since it appears we don't know, either remove that or put up my version that makes more sense. Basically in short (not to confuse you) what is being discussed is: * How Edo Itachi is not blind. * I say simply because Kabuto had his genetic material before the Sasuke fight * There currently isn't a redirect for the "prior to death" part --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:16, October 13, 2012 (UTC) How they were at death probably comes from Nagato (who came back with the weakened look he had from using Samsara of Heavenly Reincarnation) and Torune (who was brought back in the exact same cloths he had just moments before). [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 04:44, October 13, 2012 (UTC) I doubt it's as cut and dry as the person being reincarnated as how they physically were in their lifetime/before their death. Someone mentioned a while back that it is probably how the person's soul perceived itself at the time of death, which is why Sasori didn't get reincarnated as his core of living flesh and why Nagato still couldn't walk properly though the legs of whomever's body he occupied were functional. I don't know where you got the information that Itachi ''wasn't'' "blind" since I don't remember him being blind at his time of death, just severely deteriorated vision. There are several possibilities that could explain that such as the host body wasn't blind (reincarnation vs. resurrection again), but I quite like the "you're as whole and young as your soul thinks you are" angle. The point is, we'll never be 100% on this until Kishimoto explains, so don't sweat the small stuff.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 11:53, October 13, 2012 (UTC) * Kabuto got Nagato's DNA after he revived the villagers? * That's self-explanatory. --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:58, October 13, 2012 (UTC) :So you're content to believe that people are reincarnated in the state their DNA which Kabuto gathers is in? There's a few flaws to that though: scientifically, DNA doesn't change like that, why aren't people like the Kage whose DNA obviously came from grave robbing not old and decrepit in appearance? Why didn't Sasori look older? From what Kabuto said, he brought Madara back beyond his prime. Though I don't know what that means exactly, but if he did that to everyone, what was the point in mentioning this? I also don't get the whole Kabuto got Itachi's DNA from a hairbrush but like I said we can only speculate on this matter until we're told otherwise.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 17:09, October 13, 2012 (UTC) * I don't know, Omni knows biology, I think... maybe he can tell. * They died as old as they had forms in which they were revived... * Sasori looked normal to me. * No one says he did that to everyone, also we know what "beyond his prime" means exactly. * That was an example. --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:14, October 13, 2012 (UTC) It could be they're resurrected at their best (prime). and Madara is special because he had was resurrected with his rinnegan even though at one point he gave it to someone (Nagato). And he had his memories, knowledge from his old self in his young body. --[[Special:Contributions/184.108.40.206|22.214.171.124]] ([[User talk:22.214.171.124|talk]]) 17:25, October 13, 2012 (UTC) No, Chiyo was revived as an old hag, the only one in his prime and beyond is Madara. This pretty much confirms that they are revived in a state from the point the DNA gets collected. The way I see it, Kabuto simply used blood from younger Madara (the Hashirama's sword he got pierced with for example could serve as a source) and added Hashirama's genes into the mix, reviving young Madara with already the latter's powers as his own.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:46, October 13, 2012 (UTC) Just because two things correlate (vary together), it doesn't mean they're actually related. There's a scientific paper which mocks this belief, showing that stork nests and births were positively correlated somewhere in Germany sometime last century. Nothing in the manga confirms, or even suggests that time of acquisition of DNA defines how they're brought back. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:59, October 13, 2012 (UTC) I don't think you understood me Elveonora: * DNA does '''not''' change based on what happens to you unless it's a genetic disease- which is very rare. So if you lose a limb for example your DNA does '''not''' reflect that. * Still make no sense to me. See previous point. * Sasori should have been revived as a much older man, instead he looked in his 20's or so (the last time Chiyo saw him). That's what I mean by perception of soul. * I thought I made that clear. * Still a faulty example. Kabuto's mentioned that he takes the DNA from corpses or more than likely their last battlefields. (cite Jiraiya) The point still remains that only Kishimoto can answer this, if he chooses to or not. Some things just have to be accepted as continuity. But as far as I can tell, people are reincarnated in the state that they were before they died. Accept it either as part of the plot or the fact that in Nagato or Itachi's case (assuming the latter was "blind") that their souls were reincarnated into fully functioning corpses, hence defects of their previous body would have no bearing on those bodies.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 18:01, October 13, 2012 (UTC) @Omni, that didn't answer my question though. Does DNA of a living being outside of it's body age in a sense, that if it was used to "clone" the said subject 5 decades later, would it result in x + 50 years old individual or just x ? @Cerez: * Never said it does. * You see point above, it doesn't matter if Sasori's DNA got collected before he turned himself into a doll, or from his doll physical part. There's no way he could age as a piece of wood, the preserved part was likely just one of his organs or just piece of flash, not his brain, so he couldn't appear older when revived by Edo Tensei * Just to let you know, I don't see the Itachi case as a problem at all, you think I don't get what I do and you don't get what I mean you don't get. Itachi's "blindness" was self-inflicted, if I blind myself by hitting my eye with a pen, it isn't reflected in my DNA whatsoever since it's not genetic--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:32, October 13, 2012 (UTC) No, it doesn't age. DNA is damaged and repaired at every moment, both by environmental elements and by the very nature of the duplication process. If it's out of a body and properly stored, it can be maintained in a stable form for a long while, though I'm not sure how long. DNA changes very little during life, it accumulates said damage. Considering Kabuto took it from graves, it's obvious it doesn't need to be in top shape. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 19:11, October 13, 2012 (UTC) So doesn't that just prove my point?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:50, October 13, 2012 (UTC) No. If decay to the DNA did anything to the reincarnated, grave-robbing would give very poor soldiers, because their DNA would have had more time to decay and be damaged. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:02, October 13, 2012 (UTC) Just throwing it in there, DNA does change over the course of your life, otherwise you wouldn't stop growing, or even age ( Wikipedia Page for Epigenetics:[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic]])...but considering this manga was not written by a biologist i suggest leaving the science at usual level --[[User:ThatUser|ThatUser]] ([[User talk:ThatUser|talk]]) 02:35, October 14, 2012 (UTC) Epigenetics is about how your genes are expressed. Basically, it regulates which genes are "on" (being transcribed into mRNA and subsequently translated into proteins) and which genes are "off" (having their expression suppressed by other factors). That's the reason why we have different cell types, despite all of them having the genes for all proteins in our body. A muscle cell and a liver cell both have the genes which are expressed in brain cell, but those are off, so they don't have brain cell characteristics, because they don't express the same set of proteins. The nucleotide sequence in all of them is the same. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 03:48, October 14, 2012 (UTC) == Obito's Six Paths of Pain Dōjutsu == Although the six shinobi are still deceased, the fact is that they were each transplanted a Sharingan and Rinnegan eye, the same as characters like Kakashi. I think we should add to their infoboxes that they have the said eyes. Steveo920, October 20, 21:51 If they are the Six Paths of Pain and if they face those chakra recivers in their chest, then that means Obito implated a chakra receiver into himself (note that their sharingan and rinnegan are in the same eye sockets as Tobi's).--[[User:Droidkaju|Droidkaju]] ([[User talk:Droidkaju|talk]]) 02:01, October 21, 2012 (UTC) * The eyes aren't transplants, just "reflections" * I'm pretty sure it was even hinted upon that Tobi has a rod as well in his body--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:14, October 21, 2012 (UTC) More likely than no, the Sharingan weren't reflections but the Rinnegan definitely were. It is also '''possible''' that Tobi didn't have a chakra receiver lodged in his body because of the fact that the jinchuriki were reincarnated and not corpses. He could simply have been using the Outer Path techniques to control them.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 14:52, October 21, 2012 (UTC) @Cerez, Outer Path's Six Paths of Pain/Rikudou no Jutsu is used with a Chakra Receiver, thus he has to have one in his body in order to "transmit" as well--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:38, October 21, 2012 (UTC) == How in the...? == I feel I have the right to ask this. I understand the person's body isn't needed for the reincarnation, the only requirement being the deceased person's soul and a living sacrifice as a vessel, right? Okay, so where in the hell does Kabuto keep finding these people's souls? O.o And don't tell me that every single reincarnation needs a DNA sample. IIRC, some of the reincarnated shinobi's bodies were destroyed in real life(therefore no DNA sample), and Kabuto claimed that while he couldn't reincarnate Jiraiya because he had sunken too deep into the water when he died, if he could get ahold of the Six Paths of Pain's chakra recievers he should be able to reincarnate him; despite the chakra recievers being attached to his dead body! It was such an absurd statement on his part, I'm beginning to become morbidly confused on just how this jutsu works. --[[Special:Contributions/188.8.131.52|22.214.171.124]] ([[User talk:22.214.171.124|talk]]) 17:08, October 26, 2012 (UTC) He said he could get the DNA off of the Path's weapons. If you recall, the Animal Path he sent back to Konoha pierced Jiraiya's shoulder and basically every blow that wasn't the final impalement could render DNA samples to recreate Jiraiya. As for bodies that were destroyed who is to say Kabuto didn't get the DNA before this time? He needs some piece of the Target's DNA in order to recreate their body. Having said that, about the Souls, it's not literally retrieving their Soul, it simply means that the person has to be dead and gone, not alive or sealed in order for the Soul to be called back to the body. He doesn't have to lay hands on a soul (How the hell would you even do that) Just be sure that the one he wants to revive is dead and that their Soul wasn't sealed before then. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 17:37, October 26, 2012 (UTC) Thanks. I think I understand better now. --[[Special:Contributions/184.108.40.206|126.96.36.199]] ([[User talk:220.127.116.11|talk]]) 17:43, October 26, 2012 (UTC) Everything you need to know is present in the article, reading comprehension and thinking are your best bet before asking. But to save you the effort, it's as follows: * a living sacrifice has to be prepared * any DNA samples that belong to the people a summoner wishes to bring back * also their souls must reside in "the other world" if you will # the summoner makes a sealing formula around the "about-to-be-sacrificed-person" # places the "to-be-revived-person's" genetic material on the seal # dust encases the victim, turning his/her body into an Edo zombie # Souls descend from heavens into the zombies, replacing the originally living Simply, a life for a life trade.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:47, October 26, 2012 (UTC) == Transplant == The article should mention the fact that the summoned shinobi retains the transplantations he has underwent in his life. Nagato and Hanzô are clear examples of that. --[[User:Bad77Wolf|Bad77Wolf]] ([[User talk:Bad77Wolf|talk]]) 01:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC) :Just to note, while there is no need to not say that transplants remain after resurrection, the article does clearly state that the revived are brought back in the state they were in at their death. So logically speaking, if they had a transplant at the time of death, they would keep it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| (talk)]] 02:18, October 29, 2012 (UTC) ::Maybe but I think that deserves a proper, more explicit statement, considering the importance of transplantations in the Narutoverse. --[[User:Bad77Wolf|Bad77Wolf]] ([[User talk:Bad77Wolf|talk]]) 18:12, October 29, 2012 (UTC) == A page of the talismans? == I don't know why there isn't. Some of the info on them can be transferred to a new page. --[[User:OmegaRasengan|OmegaRasengan]] ([[User talk:OmegaRasengan|talk]]) 00:16, November 25, 2012 (UTC) == Appearing Asleep == The article currently, and has for quite a while, claimed that those revived by this technique appear "asleep" until a talisman has been inserted, but that isn't really the case. When Torune was revived he was awake and could even move on his own, and the two Hokage revived by Orochimaru could speak and, at the very least, walk when they were summoned. The only time the "asleep" statement is true is in regard to Kabuto's revived Akatsuki members, but that was likely because he had inserted talismans to bind their personalities when they were first reincarnated, just like Torune. Not sure how to better phrase this in the article, but it seems rather incorrect to leave it as is.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 08:16, January 12, 2013 (UTC) :The article says when summoned. It is not with reference to what happens to them after the ritual had just been completed. Changed the word either way.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 08:30, January 12, 2013 (UTC) == Jinchūriki == Hello, there's something I'm a bit unsure about. Madara says that a reincarnated body cannot become a jinchūriki, right? Then how did Obito manage to reseal the tailed beasts in his six reincarnated jinchūriki?--[[Special:Contributions/126.96.36.199|184.108.40.206]] ([[User talk:220.127.116.11|talk]]) 11:01, January 29, 2013 (UTC) :Perhaps it was only for [[Ten-Tails]].'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|Ultimate]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|Supreme]]''' 11:22, January 29, 2013 (UTC) :I'll say what I think about it. The tailed beasts that Tobi controlled in the fight against Naruto & Killer B were still sealed inside the Demonic Statue: Tobi just used the chakra receivers in the jinchūriki bodies to link the tailed beasts' power to each body. As such, each Path had access to its tailed beast's power, but the latter wasn't actually ''sealed'' inside the former, just linked by the rod.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 12:32, January 29, 2013 (UTC) ::An explanation of this is in the other relevant articles. It is not here because it's not related to the technique.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 15:20, January 29, 2013 (UTC) is the "edo" kanji the same kanji used to form tokyo's previous name?? --[[User:Caseather|Caseather]] ([[User talk:Caseather|talk]]) 03:10, February 1, 2013 (UTC) :Nope. Impure world is "穢土." Edo (Tokyo) is "江戸." General Awesomo 03:39, May 5, 2013 (UTC) == Release == Shouldn't there be a Page for the Release Counterpart of this Technique? --[[User:Kieronrob|Kieronrob]] ([[User talk:Kieronrob|talk]]) 17:05, February 3, 2013 (UTC) :I see the logic behind it, but I would hold that one off for now. We had a scroll with the name on it for Dead Demon Consuming Seal. We didn't have that for this one. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:35, February 3, 2013 (UTC) Since we have xxx unnamed techniques, I don't see why this one should be an exception--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:21, February 3, 2013 (UTC) Bump, nothing then? It's obviously it's own technique, Tobirama doesn't seem to know about it--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:11, February 20, 2013 (UTC) How would Tobirama not know about it? He created the technique, Oro and Kabuto only made it better/stronger. Like I said, I'm not completely averse to the idea, but I think we should have more stuff behind it before making the page. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:50, February 20, 2013 (UTC) The release part appears to be a different technique, it doesn't appears Tobirama knows about it, if he knew, he would have released himself, nope?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:45, February 21, 2013 (UTC) : Maybe he didn't have the time to.--[[User:Yomiko-chan|Yomiko-chan]] ([[User talk:Yomiko-chan|talk]]) 01:53, February 21, 2013 (UTC) Madara had time with his soul being sucked away and attacking 5 Kage ._.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:47, February 21, 2013 (UTC) :>.< True.--[[Special:Contributions/126.96.36.199|18.104.22.168]] ([[User talk:184.108.40.206|talk]]) 17:51, February 21, 2013 (UTC) ::He did not. What Kabuto was forced to do was release the technique. What Madara did, was once he was completely unimpeded, he seized the control of the technique over himself. He's still bound to the physical world by the IWR, just by his own will rather than a third party's. If Madara wanted, in theory, he would need to perform the same hands seals Itachi had Kabuto perform to be released. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:05, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Yeah, and that's why his "self-control no jutsu" is a separate technique and should have an article imo, he even did a handseal if I remember well--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:41, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :They simply said he hijacked the technique. Still not seeing it as a separate technique. Madara could do that because he has knowledge on IWR itself. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC) == Control without talisman == Should be added in the paragraph about the control of the Edo Tensei, that it's possible exercise a form of it also without talismans inside the reincarnated ones? In the last chapter Orochimaru say that his bind with the Kage is '''reinforced''' by the Hashirama cells in his body, so thid should mean implicitly that a basic control on the summoned ones is always been present in the user of the jutsu also without particular tools. Or I'm misunderstanding something?--[[User:JK88|JK88]] ([[User talk:JK88|talk]]) 16:28, February 15, 2013 (UTC) : I think you are right...'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|Ultimate]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|Supreme]]''' 16:31, February 15, 2013 (UTC) The talismans never directly controlled them, just their personality and control over movements by setting them to automatic mode--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:36, February 15, 2013 (UTC) == Sound Four == Since the [[Sound Four]] will be revived in the next filler episodes, instead of having each member in a slot, why not just insert the team? --[[User:Questionaredude|Questionaredude]] ([[User talk:Questionaredude|talk]]) 15:55, February 28, 2013 (UTC) Sound Five you mean, Kimimaro is already there ;D--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:56, February 28, 2013 (UTC) True, but Kimimaro was temporary. --[[User:Questionaredude|Questionaredude]] ([[User talk:Questionaredude|talk]]) 16:10, February 28, 2013 (UTC) :Why would it be necessary to put only "Sound Four" when they all have names? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 16:23, February 28, 2013 (UTC) We put each member of the previous Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist individually, no reason to change that with another group. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:02, March 1, 2013 (UTC) Oh, I forgot about that. Thanks. --[[User:Questionaredude|Questionaredude]] ([[User talk:Questionaredude|talk]]) 03:15, March 1, 2013 (UTC) == Orochimaru's Arms == I think the statement about an intact soul is inaccurate to make. From the time he took a new host to just before he cut the four Hokages free, he never once used jutsu that required handsigns. It's more likely taking a new host only freed him of the pain of losing his arms, not actually restoring his ability to weave signs. [[User:VlenFlyheight|VlenFlyheight]] ([[User talk:VlenFlyheight|talk]]) 08:30, March 5, 2013 (UTC) :I believe you're talking about the trivia point, which I agree with you on. After Orochimaru transferred his soul to Gen'yūmaru, he was never seen using a technique that required hand seals/hand related things since. The only time that he even remotely came close was after he was revived and he absorbed his chakra from Kabuto, but that was about it. Other than that, the trivia point is something that can go unsaid.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 16:20, March 5, 2013 (UTC) ::Actually, he did preform a technique that required handseals, the Triple Rashomon gate, unless summoning doesn't count.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| (talk)]] 18:09, March 5, 2013 (UTC) He didn't wave a sign, remember, he has/had summoning tattoos all over his body. From what has been said, it appears that sealing of his arms took away all his techniques. I don't think what he did display afterwards counts as a ninjutsu, lots of his powers stem from experimentation like summoning snakes directly from his body, altering his body, transfer etc.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:02, March 5, 2013 (UTC) I referenced both the manga and anime. When he used triple Rashomon he bit his thumbs and slammed his hands straight down. Heck, anime wise they slow motion cut back and forth between the blast and him slamming his hands to show there were NO handsigns whatsoever. [[User:VlenFlyheight|VlenFlyheight]] ([[User talk:VlenFlyheight|talk]]) 16:21, March 7, 2013 (UTC) == Chakra: Unlimited or not == In the article, it states that the resurrected (within this jutsu) have unlimited chakra. However, when the [[Second Mizukage]] used [[Steaming Danger Tyranny]], he lost plenty of chakra. Or was it that he got tired?--[[User:Aeonophic|Aeonophic]] ([[User talk:Aeonophic|talk]]) 22:10, March 7, 2013 (UTC)Aeonophic It dehydrated him--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:28, March 7, 2013 (UTC) Dehydrated? Where ever did it say that? It was simply stated that it leaves him in a weakened state, which considering Naruto, could be just about anything.--[[User:Yomiko-chan|Yomiko-chan]] ([[User talk:Yomiko-chan|talk]]) 00:40, March 8, 2013 (UTC) Think like this: all shinobi have a max chakra capacity. If they spend chakra, it takes them time to regenerate that chakra. When they're reincarnated with this, they still have the same max chakra capacity, but their chakra regeneration gets amped way up, to the point the chakra they spend is practically regenerated on the spot. When Mū split, the chakra capacity was split between the two. When the Mizukage allocated chakra to his powerful clone technique, his chakra capacity was diminished as well. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:50, March 8, 2013 (UTC) == Gallery? == Would it be possible to get a gallery for the guys who were resurrected during the Chikara arc? I know they aren't important enough for individual articles, but images would be a grand help. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 01:30, April 6, 2013 (UTC) :Considering they're not likely to be seen anywhere else since there are no articles on them, I support this. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:50, April 6, 2013 (UTC) In that case, could I please make two requests? Could someone find the relevant pictures, as I can only obtain ones of utterly abysmal quality, and can someone tell me how you make a gallery? I don't mind doing the work, I just have no idea how. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 04:59, April 7, 2013 (UTC) :[[Help:Gallery]].'''~ [[User:UltimateSupreme|Ultimate]][[User talk:UltimateSupreme|Supreme]]''' 15:45, April 7, 2013 (UTC) Alright, two months later and I've finally made a start on this. I've only got a few at the minute, but I'll add more as I go get the pictures later. Sorry for the bad quality, like I said I can't get very good ones, but hey, it's a start. I'm still not happy with the size of the pictures either, could probably do to shrink it, but like I said, work in progress. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 20:15, June 4, 2013 (UTC) : Now i added a bunch of pictures, in a bit better quality than before. Do we also want from the newest episode? or is that a bit to much ;). If it is, we can always take those we got a good picture of--[[User:Kasan94|Kasan94]] ([[User talk:Kasan94|talk]]) 14:03, June 7, 2013 (UTC) What happened to the gallery? I thought it was agreed since they don't appear elsewhere on the wiki a gallery was fine? --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 12:29, September 23, 2013 (UTC) :Why do we need a gallery? References are more than enough for people to cross-reference the episodes themselves. The page is congested enough as it is.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 14:38, September 23, 2013 (UTC) == Infobox slideshow == So I was thinking: maybe it'd be a good idea to have the steps of the Edo Tensei (in their image form) shown as a slide show in the infobox. Thoughts ? --[[User:Speysider|Speysider]] [[User_talk:Speysider|Talk Page]] | [[User:Speysider/Images|My Image Uploads]] | [[User:Speysider/Tabber Code|Tabber Code]] | [http://youtube.com/LPSajuuk Channel] 19:03, April 11, 2013 (UTC) == 4th Kazekage == would it be safe to assume that, given that we now know that 1) With [[Minato Namikaze]] sealed and 2) the Coffin with "four" on it being an anime exclusive and 3) [[Orochimaru]] couldn't have gotten Minato's edo tensei to the coffin stage, but HAD killed the 4th Kazekage personally and had access to his remains: that the anime coffin with "four" from the battle with [[Hiruzen Sarutobi]] can be said, with this knowledge as a retcon, to have housed the [[Fourth Kazekage]]? We could at least put something to this effect in the trivia section, there is speculative trivia all over the site with less to go on than this proposal. [[User:VlenFlyheight|VlenFlyheight]] ([[User talk:VlenFlyheight|talk]]) 11:30, May 27, 2013 (UTC) :No. Kabuto confirmed in the manga that the fourth coffin was Minato Namikaze but failed because his soul did not reside in the Pure World. The only thing that was not canonical in that instance was the thought that Hiruzen stopped the coffin.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 12:01, May 27, 2013 (UTC) ::there shouldn't have been a coffin in the first place if it was Minato, by anime retcon it could only logically be the kazekage[[User:VlenFlyheight|VlenFlyheight]] ([[User talk:VlenFlyheight|talk]]) 12:11, May 27, 2013 (UTC) :::But It could not be the kazekage, as kabuto said that It was Intended for minato to be summoned, but that could not work because minato was obviously with the shinagami and so It wasn't him, and It also could not of been the kazekage as his bodfy was lying In a pit after the Invasion but I'm not sure if the whole body of someone is needed or only a little bit of DNA for them to be summoned anyway It was minato and It could of been the kazekage but If it was kabuto would of likely said so --[[User:ROOT 根|ROOT 根]][[File:ANBU_Symbol.svg|12px]]([[User talk:ROOT 根|talk]]) 12:15, May 27, 2013 (UTC) :::: he only needed a spec of DNA for it to have been the Kazekage, and the coffin never appeared in the manga. 21:18, May 27, 2013 (UTC) :::::It is not an anime retcon, that's how it happened in the manga as well. Manga noted that it was Minato in the coffin, so that's the end of it. The reason why or even how there was a coffin was never expounded upon, but we can't just assume Orochimaru didn't try something unconventional in Minato's case.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 12:23, May 27, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Let's say Orochimaru just prepared his body but was YET to insert the soul--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:48, May 27, 2013 (UTC) == Chikara Arc Shinobi == is it really necessary to show pictures of them here? If so, why don't we show all of them?[[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 11:05, June 5, 2013 (UTC) :Read the comments, I think we agreed to show pictures of '''noticable''' Edo Unnamed Shinobi:)--[[User:Omojuze|Omojuze]] ([[User talk:Omojuze|talk]]) 11:14, June 5, 2013 (UTC) == random trivia == is it worth noting that with the exception of kin and zaku, every ninja that has ever been used as living sacrifice for edo tensei has been from the leaf village ( in both the anime and the manga)? [[User:Iowndisciti|Iowndisciti]] ([[User talk:Iowndisciti|talk]]) 07:39, June 15, 2013 (UTC) :That's not true.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:37, June 15, 2013 (UTC) ::So far we've only seen Itachi's sacrifice being a Konoha-nin which if anything was just symbolic.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|(talk)]] 13:51, June 15, 2013 (UTC) Ok, I get the whole process in reanimation and stuff; it requires a living person and flesh or DNA of the dead. Now, if the person died because he was used as a reanimation sacrifice, can he/she be brought back with the same jutsu? {{unsigned|22.214.171.124}} I don't see why they wouldn't be able to, my big question is at what point is the sacrifice considered dead? I mean could Kabuto have summoned Fu while Fu's body was still being used as the basis of Torune's reincarnated form? --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 20:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC) :I think the sacrifice is considered dead either when the summoning of the deceased is complete (when the ash finishes forming the body of the deceased) or when the technique is released, because that's when we see the sacrifice among the ashes. Most likely, it's the first option. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:01, June 16, 2013 (UTC) == Pics of unknown Edo Tenseis == Someone should get pics of all the unnamed revived ninja from the new episode![[Special:Contributions/18.104.22.168|220.127.116.11]] ([[User talk:188.8.131.52|talk]]) 13:28, June 17, 2013 (UTC) Carignan == Without Scroll == Orochimaru was able to summon the four Hokage without the use of a special scroll so shouldn't the descriptionof the technique be changed to reflect this fact. [[User:Tasuxeda|Tasuxeda]] ([[User talk:Tasuxeda|talk]]) 20:06, August 23, 2013 (UTC) :Wha?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| (talk)]] 21:48, August 23, 2013 (UTC) ::What not; Orochimaru has sealing formulas all over his body. He is a walking fuuinjutsu/summoning tattoo--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:08, August 23, 2013 (UTC) == Cracks == Is it safe to say the cracks reappearing is due to usage of Chakra? Because Hashirama's body began cracking when Madara absorbed his Senjutsu Chakra.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 09:46, December 9, 2013 (UTC) ==PRESSURE POINTS!!!?== My question is as follows: What...What...and WHAT!!!? This is just another convenient weakness of Edo Tensei, isn't it?--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 14:57, January 15, 2014 (UTC) :It isn't exclusive to Edo Tensei, pressure points have living folks too, it's called tenketsu--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:04, January 15, 2014 (UTC) ::I knew that. But the fact that they're edo tensei.....--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 15:06, January 15, 2014 (UTC) :::Yes, it's weird that they even have them. Thought they are dust/dirt/ash/paper or whatever--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:10, January 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::Do you think the Edo's are only affected the way we saw them because of the Chakra Receivers? Based off what Hashi said, someone could do that with a normal weapon, right?--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 15:12, January 15, 2014 (UTC) :::::Same thing Hyuga folks do with Gentle Fist I guess, so blocking the holes with anything would do.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:14, January 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::::Understood. It just seems like Edo Tensei is getting less "perfect", than it used to be.--[[File: Senju_Symbol.svg|20px]]'''KotoSenju''' ''('''OldUser:'''JaZZBaND)''-[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|Contributions]] 15:23, January 15, 2014 (UTC) == skin color == Is it worth mentioning that unlike the anime, Edos appear .... with more dead-like skin color in the manga?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:51, April 23, 2014 (UTC) :: From what I've seen, the cover volumes depict them with pale death-like skin. Though in the chapters themselves, based from the colored version of chapter 638, the skin color is the same as they were in life, just with added cracks.--[[User:Narutofox94|Narutofox94]] ([[User talk:Narutofox94|talk]]) 14:59, April 23, 2014 (UTC) :::Interesting. An inconsistency then, or the covers depict them with pale skin for dramatic effect or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:03, April 23, 2014 (UTC) :::: From what I have to guess, it's to have as many different colors on the volume to attract more attention so they buy it and for artistic purposes to show that they're dead but were brought back with forbidden means. I think it would make a good trivia point since it's consistent.--[[User:Narutofox94|Narutofox94]] ([[User talk:Narutofox94|talk]]) 15:24, April 23, 2014 (UTC) In the anime they appear pale at first but after "revitalizing" they get their normal skin color back, if I recall correctly. --[[User:Kiadony|kiadony]] --[[User talk:Kiadony|talk to me]]-- 18:12, April 23, 2014 (UTC) == Madara's Enhancements == In reference to Madara's reincarnation being "special", the article currently states that it is possible to mix and match different points in a reincarnated person's life for the best result. Madara's statement about his chest-face in chapter 657, coupled with Kabuto's earlier comments, seem to imply that Kabuto simply reincarnated Madara and then implanted Hashirama's DNA (using an improved version of the Danzo method) in the hopes that he would awaken the Rinnegan, unaware that Madara had done the exact same thing in his lifetime. This of course doesn't explain why Madara wasn't revived as a one-eyed old man with Hashirama cells plugging his wound, but that may be where the "special" part comes in. Any objections to changing the section to reflect this?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 00:12, July 28, 2014 (UTC) :I'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere on the article that the Edo Tensei can revive people at an age chosen by the user, but I could be remembering false information. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 00:20, July 28, 2014 (UTC) ::That's the thing, it does say that, but the series never did. We were never told why Madara is his younger self when others appear as they died, just that he was somehow special and Kabuto improved him in some way (which according to 657, meant adding the Hashirama face).--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 00:29, July 28, 2014 (UTC) :::Oh right, I get it now. Well the series was generally very vague in regards to the actual work Kabuto put into Madara's revived form, all we know is he was revived younger and better than when he died, so there isn't much that we can say about it. --[[User:Atrix471|Atrix471]] ([[User talk:Atrix471|talk]]) 00:56, July 28, 2014 (UTC) Butting in: There are no rules as to what form a revived person is in. If the normal rule is "appeared as they died", then Sasori would be a chunk of flesh. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] [[User Talk:Seelentau|議]] 01:12, July 28, 2014 (UTC) ==Akatsuki Cloaks== I believe that Edo Tensei revive the shinobi with the clothes they wore at the time of their death, so none of the Akatsuki members revived had any cloak on them, as they all lost it in the battle prior to their death or, in Nagato's case, didn't wore one at all. So that must be the reason why the Akatsuki members were revived with these red cloaks on them. --[[User:LordofBraxis|LordofBraxis]] ([[User talk:LordofBraxis|talk]]) 12:33, September 8, 2014 (UTC) == Derived Jutsu == I don't think the derived Jutsu belongs there. Derived Jutsu means it comes directly from the parent technique and can't be performed without it. A living person can perform it, albeit at the cost of their life. The technique just takes advantage of Edo Tensei's regenerating abilities.[[User:Cloudtheavenger|Cloudtheavenger]] ([[User talk:Cloudtheavenger|talk]]) 03:17, December 15, 2014 (UTC) == Trivia unlimited chakra == I don't think the last point in trivia is correct. In chapter 591 last page, Madara claimed that there is a risk to this jutsu, Madara said if the person knows the seal they can release the edo summoning contract and in turn the person gets unlimited chakra, undying body so he stayed in this world, when the jutsu was released by Itachi the other summon returned to other world but Madara didn't he released the contract. The hokages didn't try to release the contract, so its obvious they and other edo tensei summons can also run out of chakra. I just want opinions before removing this trivia point and include these points in article.--[[User:Mecha Naruto|Mecha Naruto]] ([[User talk:Mecha Naruto|talk]]) 03:06, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :Madara is a different case, I'll just change it.--[[User:Mecha Naruto|Mecha Naruto]] ([[User talk:Mecha Naruto|talk]]) 03:18, April 13, 2015 (UTC) == Tobirama's and Orochimaru's versions == Only Tobirama's and Orochimaru's versions couldn't bring the reincarnated back at full power. As shown several times over the course of the manga, Kabuto's version was said to be the perfected version of Summoning: Impure World Incarnation. As such, he could summon and wield dozens of reincarnated simultaneously, while keeping them at full power. We know his reincarnated were at full power due to Onoki commenting that Mu's power was the same it was in life, back in 546, and we've seen other shinobi such as Itachi or Nagato be stronger than they were in life, either because they lack illness (like Itachi) or because they were able to restore themselves to the prime of their power (Nagato). Orochimaru had yet to perfect the technique, all he could do is bring Hashirama and Tobirama (the only two Edo Tensei explicitly said to be weaker) to a hair's shy width of their full power, most likely due to their extraordinary capabilities.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 20:00, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :Which is all conjecture that has no place in the article. You need direct evidence that Orochimaru's is inferior to Kabuto's, not a convoluted explanation that, among other things, assumes Madara is pretending to be weaker for unspecified reasons. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 23:54, April 13, 2015 (UTC) ::1) Please learn to shorten the titles of headings you put on talkpages. 2) Agreed with SnapperTwo, once again, seems like a conjecture you came up with that wasn't. stated. anywhere. {{User: WindStar7125/LongSig}} 23:57, April 13, 2015 (UTC) ::: Kabuto's version was said to bring back the Shinobi at full power. This was proven then Onoki said Mu's power was the same it was in life. Check chapter 546 to see that, and 521, Kabuto says something to the effect 'Created by Tobirama, completed by Orochimaru, its the greatest technique in the universe'! However, Orochimaru's, despite the knowledge he gained from Kabuto, was unable to bring back Hashirama and Tobirama at full power. In fact those are the only two Edo Tensei that were stated to be weaker in life. Tobirama himself said that Orochimaru hadn't perfected the technique, only upped the precision.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 00:45, April 14, 2015 (UTC) ::: And its not conjecture when the reincarnated by Kabuto were said to be just like they were in life by people who were trained by them or worked with them. Even if Madara is weakened, he's a special case like Tobirama and Hashirama, the exception, not the rule.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 00:56, April 14, 2015 (UTC) ::::Your entire argument hinges on Onoki's '''one''' offhand comment being 100% literal. Even if it is 100% literal, it in no way is satisfactory evidence for your claim that Orochimaru's IWR is weaker. Here are some counter-interpretations, both of which assume Orochimaru and Kabuto have the same IWR: ::::#Mu, contrary to Onoki's comment, is not 100% the same as when he was alive. For argument's sake, he's 90% of what he once was. That missing 10% is not actually perceptible because, in Mu's case, it's so small. Hashirama and Tobirama, being stronger than Mu, miss that 10% much more noticeably. ::::#Mu is indeed 100% the same as when he was alive. For argument's sake, he was reincarnated with his full 1000 HP. But the perfected IWR has a 1000 HP maximum, and Hashirama and Tobirama are ordinarily 1200 HP. Without that missing 200 HP they cannot be said to be fully what they were. ::::Now I don't actually care which, if any of these, is the case, so please don't debate them. My point is that there's more than one possible interpretation, and for that reason the wiki cannot assume any one is true. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 01:22, April 14, 2015 (UTC) : Alright. If that's what the wiki needs.--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 01:26, April 14, 2015 (UTC) == Fūinjutsu Counter == With the ability to remove the summoner's control over its summon,would the Contract Seal act as a means to counter Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation? --[[User:Minatoblitz|Minatoblitz]] ([[User talk:Minatoblitz|talk]]) 20:38, March 23, 2017 (UTC) == Sarutobi == Should it be mentioned that [[Hiruzen Sarutobi]] was the only one who was able to negate the Edo Tensei? When he fought Orochimaru, he stopped the 3rd coffin. --[[User:JuanPaBJ16|†_'''J'''uαи'''P'''α™_†]] ''[[User Talk:JuanPaBJ16|a message?]] [[File:Forum new.gif]]'' 21:27, May 1, 2018 (UTC) :Before posting, you should read the article, where the circumstances of Minato's reincarnation are specifically stated...--[[User:BerserkerPhantom|BerserkerPhantom]] ([[User talk:BerserkerPhantom|talk]]) 21:38, May 1, 2018 (UTC) ==Confusion== The article states: "[[Yin–Yang Release]], as manifested in [[Truth-Seeking Ball]]s, can negate the regenerative properties of reincarnated bodies, reducing their effectiveness and, if used to strike a vital spot, kill them for all intents and purposes." Now, I'm not sure if the passage is simply written in a confusing manner, or if I'm just forgetting something, but what's up with Hiruzen eventually regenerating his destroyed body? He had his body from the waist up destroyed, and he was ultimately able to restore himself. The passage above makes it seem as if a reincarnated shinobi will die for good if a vital spot is hit and that any non-vital area that receives damage will never regenerate. I know "intents and purposes" is there, but having "negate" without "for a time" adds to the confusion. I would've just altered the passage, but I'm curious if there was some other reason for Hiruzen's regeneration. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 18:11, March 24, 2019 (UTC) :Based on different topics on [[Talk:Truth-Seeking Ball]] and its archives, Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls hadn't yet been applied with Yin–Yang Release when he attacked Hiruzen. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 18:50, March 24, 2019 (UTC) ::Ah, I see. Thank you for checking around. [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 19:04, March 24, 2019 (UTC) :::I remember these. I was particularly nagging on this topic. The rationale that sold me on this was that because Obito was still berserk and not in control of himself, like Naruto used to be above four tails, he (or more accurately the Ten-Tails) didn't have enough control to flip the ninjutsu negation YYR on, so at that time it was "just" a more malleable Dust Release. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:05, March 25, 2019 (UTC) ==Fuinjutsu or Ninjutsu== The wiki classifies this as ninjutsu and kinjutsu. However the process as described is the use of seals. So which is it? Sounds to me from the process like this should be classified as a fuinjutsu instead of a ninjutsu. --[[User:MrTTAO|MrTTAO]] ([[User talk:MrTTAO|talk]]) 13:44, June 28, 2019 (UTC) :Please go read on what actual fuinjutsu do. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 15:19, June 28, 2019 (UTC) Templates used on the current version of this page: User:WindStar7125/LongSig (view source) Template:ArchiveList (view source) (semi-protected)Template:Extension DPL (view source) Template:Unsigned (view source) (semi-protected)Return to Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation. Retrieved from "https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:Summoning:_Impure_World_Reincarnation" Edit summary Preview Mobile Desktop Show changes


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The pinnacle of fraternal and professional societies, centered on the potential of each brother, the unquenchable thirst for personal development and the lifelong values of friendship, sound learning and rectitude.
Phi Delta Theta is always looking for young men who have great character and motivation. If you're looking to make the most of your college experience (and beyond), learn more about joining Phi Delta Theta.
There are countless ways to get involved with Phi Delta Theta and volunteer your time, from Province Presidents, Chapter Advisory Boards and House Corporations, to Alumni Clubs, Events, and much more.
The Phi Delta Theta Foundation exists to strengthen men for life by building on the tradition of our core values: friendship, sound learning and rectitude. It started with scholarships, and now today, a whole lot more.
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The first man to walk on the moon, six MLB hall-of- famers, eight Pulitzer Prize winners, President of the United States, and more, to name a few. Meet the many men of Phi Delta Theta who have gone on to do notable things in their fields. You could be next.
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subset: commoncrawl


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NASA Fuels U-Idaho Scientist's Research of Outer Space
Physicist Jason Barnes studies Titan, one of Saturn's moons
Jason Barnes, a University of Idaho physics professor, is looking to Saturn's largest moon for clues about life on other planets.
In his laboratory on the Moscow campus, he pores over data and photographs of Titan, one of Saturn's 61 icy moons. Titan is the only moon in the solar system with a thick atmosphere like Earth's. He tracks such things as movement of sand, patterns of tectonic activity and the composition of vapors leaving Titan's surface.
Barnes is one of an elite number of scientists examining mountains of data that since 2004 have been streaming from Titan back to earth since 2004, thanks to the Cassini-Huygens space probe. He was recently selected as a participating scientist on Cassini, an honor that carries with it a $315,000 NASA grant.
Understanding how Earth-like geology is created on Titan is central to understanding other worlds and their potential ability to sustain life, said the assistant professor in the College of Science.
"Titan is particularly interesting because it is the only place outside Earth that has rain that reaches its surface," said Barnes, also a principal investigator on three other NASA research projects.
Last month, he joined a panel of experts who summarized decades' worth of Titan research at the Geological Society of America conference.
He said Titan's 'rain' is made of methane, not water. Rivers of the liquefied methane empty into seas, creating geological formations similar to those on Earth.
Titan — often described as a planet-like moon -- is a great laboratory, he said, because its surface processes are more complex than those found thus far on any planet other than Earth.
Understanding such variables as Titan's sands, earthquakes, and rivers may help answer the age-old question of what a habitable planet might like look like, he said.
At the root of his research are mysteries people have pondered for centuries. "How improbable is our existence here? Is life common or rare in the universe?
"This is but the first step on what will probably be a quest that will take a few hundred years – establishing the existence, nature, and diversity of life beyond our planet," he said.


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Your safety is our priority. We're doing more than ever to help ensure your protection and well-being when you come see us for care. Learn more.
Get regional updates for Providence Oregon, including visitor restrictions.
R. Brad Cook, M.D.
Vascular surgeon, Providence Heart and Vascular Institute
Pacific Vascular Specialists
Published June 2013
Last year the American College of Chest Physicians published its latest guidelines for treating and preventing thrombosis, a body of work 20 years in the making and more than 800 pages long.
Fortunately, abbreviated references are available, and they're a valuable resource for patient care. They use the ACCP's grading system, which classifies treatment recommendations based on the balance of benefits and harm (1 = strong, 2 = weak) and the quality of evidence supporting each recommendation (A = high, B = moderate, C = low). A strong recommendation with high-quality evidence, for example, would be designated as 1A; a weak recommendation with low-quality evidence would be graded 2C.
Although the ACCP's guidelines address all aspects of managing deep vein thrombosis, this article highlights recommendations only for managing lower-extremity DVT in common clinical scenarios.
Treating proximal or iliofemoral DVT
For any patient diagnosed with an acute DVT involving the iliac or femoral veins, the guidelines recommend starting a vitamin K antagonist such as Coumadin at the same time as the parenteral anticoagulation. The patient should continue parenteral anticoagulation for at least five days until the international normalized ratio, or INR, is at the goal range of 2 to 3 or higher for at least 24 hours (grade 1B).
Low-molecular-weight heparin or fondaparinux is recommended over intravenous unfractionated heparin (grade 2C for all comparisons). Once-daily administration is preferred over twice daily.
Initial treatment may take place at home under certain conditions (grade 1B) – if the patient has well-maintained living conditions, strong support from family or friends, phone access and the ability to return to the hospital quickly if needed.
Early mobility is preferred over bed rest (grade 2C). Compression stockings of at least 20 to 30 mmHg will help lower the risk of post-thrombotic syndrome.
Treating distal (calf vein or tibial) DVT
The decision to proceed with anticoagulation versus serial imaging for patients with isolated distal (i.e. infrapopliteal) DVT always has been complex. The ACCP suggests basing the therapy on the severity of the patient's symptoms and risk factors for thrombus extension.
For patients who have an isolated distal DVT with no severe symptoms or risk factors for extension, the guidelines suggest serial imaging of the deep veins for two weeks before considering an anticoagulant (grade 2C).
Initial coagulation is recommended, however, for patients at risk for thrombus extension or who have severe symptoms attributed to the clot. Anticoagulation management should be the same as for patients with a proximal DVT.
If a patient is being followed by serial imaging, anticoagulation should be started if the follow-up ultrasound shows any thrombus extension, regardless of whether it remains confined to the distal veins (grade 2C) or if it propagates into the proximal veins (grade 1B).
How long to continue anticoagulant therapy?
For patients with a proximal DVT caused by surgery or a transient risk factor, three months of anticoagulation therapy is recommended over a longer (grade 1B) or shorter (grade 1B) period of time. Three months also is the suggested duration for treating an isolated distal DVT. After that, the benefit of extended therapy should be weighed against the bleeding risk.
For patients with a second or unprovoked DVT, however, anticoagulation treatment should last longer than three months. In those cases, the length of therapy depends on the risks of bleeding and recurrent thrombosis.
The role of catheter-directed thrombolysis
Evidence supporting the use of catheter-directed thrombolysis to treat extensive acute proximal DVT is growing, but published studies are not sufficient to offer a strong recommendation for or against the option.
The guidelines recommend anticoagulant therapy alone over catheter-directed thrombolysis (grade 2C). Patients most likely to benefit from these interventions have:
In these patients, studies have shown improved mortality and fewer incidents of post-thrombotic syndrome, recurrent DVT and pulmonary embolism. Research has shown an increase in nonfatal bleeding, however. More studies are needed to reach a definitive conclusion.


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Sold For $819,000 on Mar 13, 2020
The Hamakua Coast on the Big Island's windward side is a lush agricultural area where fertile lands stretch from Mauna Kea's upcountry slopes toward the vast and beautiful Pacific Ocean.
Renowned for its ongoing agricultural renaissance, this part of the Big Island is home to both small family farms and a number of private and commercial agricultural endeavors. Known for its commitment to the concept of sustainability, the community continually seeks to balance growth and progress with an appropriate respect for the heritage of the 'aina, the land.
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GMacGuffin's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
from the keep-calm-and-carreon dept
Could there have been a better week to get to write about my favorite Techdirt posts? (Still thinking ... er, No.) What with last week's public meltdown of well-known attorney Charles Carreon spilling over into Lunes (Loony Monday), Techdirt opened this week with a blurb that Carreon had indeed filed a Fresh & Loony lawsuit -- currently serving as a poster child for Wrath of the Spurned.
If you didn't know, we have Carreon suing cartoonist Inman/The Oatmeal because Inman didn't dig Carreon demanding $20k from him for alleged defamation of Funnyjunk. (This started off because Inman didn't appreciate Funnyjunk users posting Inman's comics there without attribution or linkback, and being rather in-your-face about it, Inman wrote an open letter of complaint, containing previously mentioned alleged defamation.) So rather than pay Funnyjunk, Inman instead starts a charity fundraiser -- including some pretty crude Funnyjunk mom-bashing -- which goes gangbusters, and then Carreon takes it all super personally (including the mom bashing [?]). Carreon tries to shut down the fundraiser, and goes kinda gonzo in the press; and so Papa Internet (and Mama Internet and all the little nets) go kinda gonzo on Carreon, and he blames Inman, and sues him ... and the charities ... kind of. It's a spectacular mess.
So later Monday morning we get: Carreon's Full Filing Reveals He Donated To Oatmeal Campaign Himself, Plus Other Assorted Nuttiness; and what a read!. Quick procedural problems include: Carreon donated to Inman's charity in an attempt to create standing for himself to bring the case re the charities (Red Flag!); he names the two charities in the header, but doesn't direct any of the claims toward them (Danger Will Robinson!); and he otherwise clearly demonstrates his lack of understanding of all things Internet. Well, you're stuck here now. (Open the pod bay door, Hal. / I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.)
There's a whole lotta other crazy in there as well that's totally worth reading. I will add that the charities' likely 12(b)(6) motion for failure to state a claim will be the first that I've ever seen where the failure to state a claim involves actual failure to make a claim against a party, at all.
Then we have Inman getting a (much less vitriolic than before) word in with an open letter addressed to Carreon, where he urges Carreon to calm down, and stop saying crazy shit to journalists. I gotta say, "Don't say crazy shit to journalists" is pretty much all-around good advice; this week's mantra.
But Wait ... There's More! Now it's off to subpoena the identity of the Twitter user who set up the Carreon parody account then stopped trying to parody when he couldn't top the real thing. And there's the amazing Tara Carreon, about which I have to defer to an AC comment from last Friday to describe: If it's a troll, it's like no trolling I've ever tasted."
The whole situation is freaking mind boggling, and so puerile it's irresistible. And while wildly entertaining, it's also terribly ugly and it's sad, and I truly wish Carreon had not taken this path. If he hasn't already, he's going to wind up jackin' it in San Diego, metaphorically speaking.
Let's Talk About Disruption (and the like): I'm an urban guy. Lived smack dab in the city for decades. When we can, we buy local. These are our merchants, our neighbors. If we support them, it benefits my urban community, and therefore me. More broadly, we try to buy direct when possible, and generally trying to ensure that the people who are actually doing the work (creating, cooking, whatever) get the highest percent of our cash as possible. So even at just-about-middle-age, when I should be averse to change, that philosophy leaves me absolutely loving watching the destruction of the old world for the new, from Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general, to all those other new, disruptive businesses that wreak so much havoc.
So along these themes we have a nice discussion of the chaos of disruptive innovation, and how the old guard just can't deal, man.
I'm currently funding, like, four Kickstarter projects, meaning, I'm giving somebody money to make something cool stuff for the world -- specifically, me. (Seriously: A baseball horror graphic novel. Monsters and baseball!) So this week I'll point to some more Kickstarter changeup stories -- showing how a platform can be harnessed in ways likely its own creators didn't imagine. First, there's the Fat Kid Rules The World film project, another film project... except you or I could set up a showing and keep some of the dough. Groovy. And there's this so-obvious-it's-brilliant idea of using crowdfunding for Empirical Market Research. Author Seth Godin and a publisher ran a campaign to gauge the interest in an upcoming book. Answer: If you write it, they will come.
[Happy Camper Joke Here] On a personal note, I want to mention David Lowery, of Camper Van Beethoven, who appears in these pages periodically saying ... well, I'm never sure. I think it has to do with the old days being better -- back in happy GatekeeperLand, or something. I'm pretty sure it's a bitch about how hard it is to make money now. Anyway, Mr. Lowery, I recently bought several Camper albums (on CD even!) to replace the cassettes wanting for tape deck. Which albums did I buy? The first three. The independent label albums, because the major label albums sucked in comparison. Have a nice day.
* * *
Finally, my wife loves your comments, folks. Have a good weekend. I'm watching baseball.


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City Events Calendar
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Toddler Time Stories @ Downtown Library
- Date: 11/05/2018 10:30 AM - 11:00 AM
- Location: Downtown Library
1044 Middlefield Road
Redwood City, California 94063
Ages 1-2Return to full list >>


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text:
Disenfranchising Those with Lung Cancer
Into Thin Air
Disenfranchising Those with Lung Cancer
More than 10,000 people a year die from asbestos disease, 5,000 of them from asbestos-caused lung cancer. It is precisely people like these, those most seriously harmed and dying from asbestos disease, that the Senate leadership has claimed to be helping with its series of asbestos trust fund bills. Few proposals have lived up to that claim, but the current proposal is perhaps the cruelest of all to date.
The Specter/Leahy asbestos bill delivers unusually harsh treatment to victims of asbestos-caused lung cancer. First, the bill establishes criteria that are not recognized by the American Lung Association or the American Thoracic Society requiring that all lung cancer victims also have advanced-stage non-cancer asbestos disease in order to qualify for any level of assistance. But the more insidious disenfranchisement of lung cancer victims becomes apparent only when the exposure criteria in the bill are applied to a sample applicant.
W.R. Grace Company Indicted
on Federal Criminal Charges
Read More
This analysis reveals that the Specter/Leahy bill denies any and all compensation to people with confirmed asbestos-caused lung cancer if they entered the workforce after 1978, just four years after the peak of asbestos use in the U.S. of 1.4 billion pounds annually. Like all asbestos victims seeking justice, they will have their cases thrown out of court. But lung cancer victims whose asbestos exposure started after 1978 will never receive a penny from the fund because it will have expired before they can accumulate enough asbestos exposure under the newly minted exposure criteria in the bill. This disenfranchisement would affect even those people with asbestos-caused lung cancer who worked every year from 1978 through the termination of the fund in 2035 in what is characterized euphemistically as a "moderate" exposure environment, defined as working:
"in areas immediate to where asbestos-containing products were being installed, repaired, or removed under circumstances that involved regular airborne emissions of asbestos fibers." (Section 121 (a) 16 (B))
For some lung cancer victims, compensation is even less likely. All individuals with a level VII claim, confirmed asbestos-caused lung cancer with bilateral pleural plaques, will have compensation denied if workplace exposure began after 1974. Lung cancer has a five-year mortality rate of 95 percent.
The reason that all of these lung cancer victims receive nothing is the convoluted exposure criteria in the bill. These criteria declare, without any medical substantiation to support them, that every year of continuous daily exposure to asbestos that occurred after 1976 counts as just one half year, and if that exposure occurred after 1986, it counts only as one tenth of a year, or 36.5 days (Section 121 (a) 16 (E)).
There is no medical or scientific rationale for devaluing a year of work exposure to "regular airborne emissions of asbestos" by 50 percent if that exposure was between 1976 and 1985 and by 90 percent if exposure took place after 1986. Asbestos use peaked in the U.S. in 1974, at 1.4 billion pounds; use in 1976 was clearly over 1 billion pounds, and workplace safety standards recommended by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) were not adopted by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) until 1994 (NIOSH 2002), a full 18 years after the bill begins to devalue a year's worth of work around asbestos.
Nor would full compliance with the OSHA standard mean that workers would not die at an excessively high rate from asbestos-caused lung cancer. The preamble to the OSHA standard itself estimates that one in every 300 workers will develop lung cancer from exposure at the legal limit (OSHA 1986). A more recent assessment concludes that one in every 200 workers will develop lung cancer if they are exposed to a career's worth of asbestos at the OSHA "safe" level.
Compliance with OSHA's permissive standard is spotty. In 1999, asbestos air levels exceeded the far weaker pre-1980 "permissible exposure limit" at 13 percent of construction and 5.6 percent of manufacturing sites monitored (NIOSH 2002). This pre-1980 limit, which was established by the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) and still applies to mining, is 20 times less protective than the 1994 OSHA standard (0.1f/cc vs. 2 f/cc). Between 19 and 91 percent of all mining sites sampled between 1982 and 1991 exceeded the 1994 OSHA standard. In 1991, 32.4 percent of mining sites sampled exceeded this level.
An example of the Specter/Leahy criteria
The unfairness of the Specter/Leahy criteria are best understood by applying them to a hypothetical applicant to the fund who has lung cancer. For lung cancer level VII (with bilateral pleural disease) a person filing a claim with the trust would need 12 years of weighted exposure (pg 82). If exposure started in 1971, it would take 34 years of continuous exposure to meet the 12-year exposure requirement in the bill. This person, and everyone beginning continuous exposure in 1971 or earlier, would qualify for compensation, assuming all other criteria are met.
For every year past 1971 that the person started working with asbestos under the "moderate exposure" criteria described above, it will take an extra 10 years of occupational exposure to meet the criteria for compensation in the bill. Thus, a person with asbestos-caused lung cancer and pleural plaques who began occupational exposure in 1974 would need 52 years of work exposure (through 2035, or "until" 2036) to meet the 12 year weighted exposure criteria in the bill. After that, the fund will have been terminated.
1974 - 1975 each year counts as a full year - total 2 years
1976 - 1985 each year counts as one half year - total 5 years
1986 - 2035 each year counts as one tenth year - total 5 years
Example 1
Patient has lung cancer with bilateral pleural disease
Example 2
Patient has lung cancer with 1/0 asbestosis
Example 3
Patient has lung cancer with 1/1 asbestosis
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) (2002). "Work-related lung disease surveillance report." Division of Respiratory Disease Studies.
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). (1986). "Final Rule: Asbestos." 51 FR 22612. Department of Labor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration. June 20, Federal Register.


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We asked users how their using QuickBooks saved them money. There seemed to be one common theme: I can do my books in-house. Here's what some of them said:
"Quickbooks saves me money because it is so easy (and support is good) that my wife was able to figure it out. Now I don't have the expense of an additional bookkeeper."
"Quickbooks is so easy to use that I do not have to hire an accountant to keep my firm's accounting and financial data."
"QuickBooks saves my business money by allowing me to do a lot of things that I would have had to pay a CPA for. I do all of our payroll and payroll taxes. This also saves us money by not requiring a payroll service that so many businesses use."
"As a tiny business, payroll is my one of my largest expenses. QuickBooks allows me do my own payroll and taxes to cut out the expensive middle man."
(Sometimes it's not a bad idea, though, to farm out just the payroll part and do the rest of books in-house. Depends on your experience and training.)
"I do not have to pay for a accountant to do my business paperwork each month"
(Yep, and you can run the reports — and change the reports — anytime you want.)
"I can actually do and manage my own accounting without depending on an outside accountant. This might not sound sweet to accountants but it is what it is as QB is easy, friendly to use."
(You can do the main data entry and reporting, and just use outside accountants for periodic reviews and adjustments as needed.)
"When used in conjunction with a quickbooks professional bookkeeper it means the high-end accountant cannot justify charging me for work that is already done."
(Right. Divide the labor for most cost-effective results.)
"When I need to get data to my tax accountant to prepare my income taxes, for corporate, franchise and personal, all I need to do is hand over a copy of my Quickbooks file. It saves me hours of filling out my accountants questionaires and it saves me fees for time charges my accountant would normally charge to get the answers to the information he needs. When providing an estimate of what it will cost to do my taxes, my accountant always asks, 'Will you have a Quickbooks file available?' It is a big savings!"
"Quickbooks is so easy to run I am not only Joe the contractor, electrician and yes the plumber but I can be my own Secretary and Accountant too. Amazing software. QuickBooks is the perfect name."
(Joe, you're a talented guy!)
RELATED: What Do People Love Best About QuickBooks?
Thank you, QuickBooks users, for sharing your thoughts with us.


text: In this thread, we will post up trax for anyone interested in getting off road in Northwest Arkansas. There may even be some stuff out of Eureka Springs for the Hillbilly run. So if you have anything to share, throw into the mix. I know Charlies and 10cup have trax north into MO and those would apply to the Hillbilly run, hopefully they will post em. Would like to ask that you post a discription of the trax and if it would be BIG BIKE firendly for those with big bikes of course..so lets get to it. Here is a "catalog" of what we have so far. These are in order both numerical and alphabetical. Distance is shown in 3 digits.. Ex. 050 is 50 miles, 085 is 85 miles, all one way, etc The Arkansas 500, AR ADV Camp and Single Track routes are at the bottom of this post. Let me know if you find a link that is not working. NOTE: All of these are off road! Most of these are "Big Bike" friendly..county dirt roads...Warloop and Pannell roads are NOT big bike friendly! 015-Mountainberg to Alma, back roads 045-Devils Den back to WR via different route from that listed below 046-White Rock to Devils Den State Park 050-White Rock to Natural Dam 055 FYV to Tahlequah Big bike friendly 058-White Rock to Historical Ft Smith, Judge Parkers Court and Museum-WESTERN ROUTE 064-White Rock to Historical Ft Smith, Judge Parkers Court and museum-EASTERN ROUTE 065-White Rock to Ozone Burger Barn, hwy 21 066-White Rock to the Confederate Cemetery in Fayetteville. Big bike friendly 066.5-Elvis rotue from White Rock to Natural Dam-Bonus, two routes in this download, another Rte to Partheon..rotue, not a track 067-White Rock to Praire Grove Civil War Battlefield 070-White Rock to historical Cabin..east of hwy 21 074-White Rock loop over the Bobby Hopper Tunnel on I-540 075-FYV to Buffalo River 080-White Rock to Eureka Springs/Wasburn MO, part 1 of 2 083-ROUTE-Olearys WR, Morgan Mtn to St Paul 083-TRACK-Olearys WR, Morgan Mtn St Paul 086-TAT-Western AR to OK state line 088-Oark to Low Gap (Buffalo River) 093-round trip FYV to Ntrl Dam 094 FYV to Jasper via dirt 096-White Rock to Eureka Springs/Wasburn MO, part 2 097-Shores Lake south to Bobby Hopper Tunnel 100-Siloam to Pannell & Ntrl Dam back to FYV This is a route 100-White Rock to Whoopteedo Rd. 106 Woody ride east from WR Medium size bike..unk if route or track 108-White Rock to Jasper AR 110-Siloam to Pannell & Ntrl Dam w/more dirt back to FYVThis is a route 121-FYV to Natural Dam via Bobby Hopper tunnel and Pannell Rd. WARNING- Pannell Rd NOT BIG BIKE FRIENDLY! 126-Wookazoid Trax, east of Oark 135-FYV to Pineville MO Big bike friendly 140 Caddo GapTRACK 141-White Rock thru Oark to the Ozark Ntl Forest east of hwy 21--trax from Zecatfish-part NOT big bike friendly 147-White Rock to Ima Jerk BBQ via Bobby Hopper Loop-ROUTE Very scenic Loop from WR to Ntl Dam and back 147-TRACK for the WR to Ima Jerk BBQ above 153 FYV to Ponca 155 - Track, Bull Shoals Dayride by O'Leary 156 FYV-Rudy Loop Very big bike friendly, can be run from Ft. Smith also. This is a ROUTE 181-Bobby Hopper Tunnel, Pannell Rd, Oark..route from JasonK94Z-not big bike friendly 195 Woody Ride west of WR Medium bike friendly--unk if route or tack 200 Withrow Springs to Oark-ROUTE 200 Withrow Springs to Oark-TRACK 209-ROUTE-Oleary's loop to Natural Dam for lunch then massive "Iron Butt" ride 209-TRACK-Olearys "Iron Butt' Loop 238-Haw Creek Loop thru the Ozarks-use the WR to Whoopteedo Rd to get to Haw Creek..this is a route from JasonK94Z 238-Haw Creek Loop MODIFIED by Zecatfish--some of these roads are not on any maps Chimney Rock Evlis's Ntl Dam Warloop and Pannell Rds loop..NOT BIG BIKE FRIENDLY! distance unk BYPASS-Lee Creek/Pannell Rd. 32 mile bypass to Natural Dam..this will keep you off Pannell Rd and out of Lee Creek BYPASS-Warloop road. This will keep you off Warloop Rd Frog Bayou--EXPERIENCED RIDERS ONLY! Rough Single track MAPS-Link to DualSportsmaps dot com MAPS-links to free topo maps to use in Mapsource Tutorial--How to add a 2nd route in Mapsource AR ADV Camp Trax 2013 140 Withrow Springs-route 140 Withrow Springs-track 155 Bull Shoals Dayride-route 155 Bull Shoals dayride-track 155 LongPool-route 155 LongPool-track 200 Withrow Springs-route 200 Withrow Springs-track 2014 140 Caddo Gap ROUTE-Wolf Pen-Clock Wise-big bike friendly 140 Caddo Gap ROUTE-Wolf Pen-Counter Clock Wise-big bike friendly 140 Caddo Gap Track Arkansas 500 2013 O'leary trax-day 2 2014 AR5002014-gpx All 3 days in one GPX file Day 1 170 mi, Turpcrk to Longpool Day 2 183 mi, Longpool to Buffalo Point Day 3 150 mi Buffalo Point to TurpCreek Byrds ADV Center Small bike trail by Newner SLAP 2017 There are 8 gpx here, unknown if they are ROUTES or TRAX. Also unknown if they are big bike friendly. There is a link to another thread probably with more info on these Hillbilly DS out of Eureka Springs Eureka Springs to Oark, or vice versa--071 miles Hillbilly DS out of the HUB 049 Compton thru Buffalo River to hwy 7 RAZORBACK RIDERS FALL RALLY Single Track Single Track at Frog Bayou O'Leary track Bryds ADV Ctr SLAP at Bryds 2014 Not big bike friendly! Mill Creek TIGHT WOODS SINGLE TRACk at Mill Creek EVEN TIGHTER WOODS SINGLE TRACK at Mill Creek SINGLE TRACK-White Rock to Frog Bayou SINGLE TRACK-From WR to Mill Creek SINGLE TRACK-Blue loop at Mill Creek


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LEWIS Industrial Single Width Scaffold Towers 3.2m Long (10'x2')
9.7m (31'9") Working Height | 7.7m (25'3") Platform Height
Product Information
- Certified to the very latest BSI Kitemark in respect to BSEN 1004 (Class 3) safety standard for your safety and reassurance. We Can Provide A copy Of Our certs Upon Request.
- Supper Increased rigidity
- Single Width Towers are 900mm Externally & Double Width Towers a 1500mm Externally
- Fully compatible with SGB BoSS Towers – If you have used these towers, or hired from larger hire companies, this is what our towers are compatible to.
- Integral ladders with comfortable D section for secure footing. Inferior Imports Have Oval Shaped Or Rectangular 30mm Diameter Bars.
- Aluminium Tube: 50.8mm Tube with a 1.8mm Wall thickness. Inferior Imports Have 30mm – 40mm Diameter 'Poles'
- Frame horizontals have 500mm spacing and ribbed tubing for increased grip
- Two Frame widths of 850mm & 1450mm
- 3 deck lengths: 1.8m, 2.5m and introducing our new 3.2m
- Self-closing trapdoors & Simple wind lock clips
- Safe working load of 275kg per platform level up to a maximum of 950kg per tower (including self-weight). Inferior Imports Vary From 125kg – 200kg, but Never To the Current Standard. Please be aware of this important difference
- Patented trigger operated locking claws
- Fluted Floating spigots for easy assembly & dismantling. Inferior Imports do not have this at all.
- 150mm Locking Castors, With a certified Weight Load of 925kg
- Unique deck Extruded profile protects edge of deck board
- Lifetime Support – We are a phone call away. We offer 100% satisfaction to our customers. Before, During and After You Have Purchased.
Robust components that make up our Industrial LEWIS Scaffold Towers
|Adjustable Legs/Wheels
|Locking Frame Clip
|Integral Ladder
|Platform Hook
|Stabiliser Foot
|Stabliser Clamp
|Brace Hook
|Platform Trap Deck
Technical Information
|Components with this LEWIS Scaffold Tower
|Dual Locking Castors - 150mm Locking Castors
|500mm Adjustable Leg
|2 Rung 1m Ladder Frame
|2 Rung 1m Span Frame
|3 Rung 1.5m Ladder Frame
|3 Rung 1.5m Span Frame
|4 Rung 2m Ladder Frame
|4 Rung 2m Span Frame
|Trap Door Platform
|Horizontal Brace (red trigger)
|Diagonal Brace (blue trigger)
|(New style) Complete Toe-board Set
|Standard Stabiliser
|Jumbo Stabiliser
|Instruction Manual & BSEN1004 certificate of conformity
|Tower Specification
|Working Height: 9.7m
|Platform Height: 7.7m
|Base Dimensions: 3.2m Long .850mm Wide (10ft x 2ft)
|Product Code: 32SW77
|Classification: BS EN1004
|Availability: Next Day
Retail Price: £1906.99
|Our Price: