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Wednesday, May 9, 2018 from 8:55 AM to 2:45 PM EDT
Check-in begins at 8:00 AM.
Continuing Professional Development Hours
OSPE programs are designed to meet the requirements for Ohio's continuing professional development (CPD) law and State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers and Surveyors (Board of Registration) rules. For Ohio licensees, the Board of Registration determines the acceptance of individual courses for CPD credit. The Board of Registration does not preapprove any courses nor course providers. However, OSPE programs are designed to comply with the law in OH, KY, NC and WV. Be sure to consult those states' licensing authorities. The Ohio Engineers Legislative Day also meets continuing professional development (CPD) requirements in many other states. There are 5 CPD hours associated with this program. Professionals should only claim credit commensurate with the extent of their participation in the activity. Be sure to sign your attendance card so that your attendance may be verified in case you are audited by the State.
Sheraton Columbus at Capitol Square
75 East State Street
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 365-4500 1-800-325-3535
Driving Directions
Suggested Parking: The Sheraton is across from the Ohio Statehouse. There is valet parking at the hotel. Options include: parking in the Statehouse underground garage, at the Huntington Center Parking Garage entering from Capital Street (off of Front Street) or Columbus Commons Parking Garage off 3rd or Rich Streets. Additional parking options may be found by clicking HERE. Bring payment for parking.
Pam McClure
Ohio Society of Professional Engineers
Following our program, you are encouraged to make legislative visits. We encourage you to schedule in advance an appointment to meet with your State Representative or State Senator. You may want to introduce yourself and/or discuss policy issues relevant to the engineering profession.
Click here to locate your legislator. You will need to mark "Zip Code" and then type in your home zip code with its 4-digit extension.
8:00 am Registration
Coffee & light breakfast provided
8:55 am Welcome
Owen March, PE, FNSPE, President, OSPE
Joe Warino, PE, PS, FNSPE, VP of OSPE Legislative & Government Affairs
9:00 am Autonomous Vehicles – Leading From the Edge
Randy Cole, Executive Director, Ohio Turnpike and Infrastructure Commission
Peter Voderberg, Managing Director, ODOT Regulations & Policy for DriveOhio
10:00 am Pipeline Safety and Regulations
Ed Gortner, Assistant Environment Administrator, Ohio EPA Office of Environmental Response
Hoby Griset, PE, President, Utility Technologies International
11:00 am 10 Minute Break
11:10 am State Board of Registration Update
John Greenhalge, Executive Director, Ohio State Board of Registration for PEs and PSs
11:55 am 5 Minute Break
12:00 pm Lunch & Speaker
Can Congress Tackle the Nation's Infrastructure Crisis
Brian Pallasch, CAE, Lobbyist, American Society of Civil Engineers, Ohio Council
1:30 pm Legislative Update - Movement on Bills
Rep. Louis Blessing, III, PE, District 29
2:00 pm Upgrading Our Nation's Electric Grid
Kamran Ali, PE, Director, Transmission Planning, American Electric Power
2:45 pm Legislative Visits
Autonomous Vehicles - Leading From the Edge
Participants will learn:
Randy Cole, Executive Director, Ohio Turnpike and Infrastructure Commission
Randy Cole serves as Executive Director of the Ohio Turnpike. He previously served as Controlling Board president and Policy Advisor to the Office of Budget and Management (OBM) in the administration of Gov. John Kasich. He currently serves on the Advisory Board of DriveOhio, a multi-agency partnership, which is focused on bringing connected and autonomous vehicle transportation technologies to Ohio. His commitment to using technology to transform government operations led Government Technology magazine to name Randy as one of the nation's Top 25 Doers, Dreamers & Drivers of 2013. He also serves on the Board of Directors of the International Bridge, Tunnel and Turnpike Association (IBTTA). You can follow him on Twitter @OHTurnpikeGuy.
Peter Voderbert, Managing Director, ODOT Regulations & Policy for DriveOhio
Peter Voderberg is the Managing Director for Regulations and Policy for DriveOhio, a statewide center for all things smart mobility established by Governor John Kasich in January 2018. DriveOhio is bringing together those responsible for building infrastructure and regulating transportation in Ohio with those who are developing advanced mobility technologies. He provides leadership and insight on complex questions of how policies at all levels of government are and will be affected by the development of these technologies. Prior to his appointment with DriveOhio, Peter served as an Assistant Policy Director and Associate Counsel in the Office of Governor Kasich. Peter earned his J.D. from the University of Dayton School of Law in 2012 and has a bachelor's degree in English from The Ohio State University.
Pipeline Safety and Regulations
Participants will learn:
Ed Gortner, Assistant Environment Administrator, Ohio Environmental Protection AgencyEd holds a BS in Natural Resources Development and has been with Ohio EPA since 1994 holding numerous staff level and management positions throughout his tenure at the Agency. Ed has extensive experience with investigation and clean up of CERCLA facilities and enforcement of landfill facilities. In 2015, Ed was promoted to his current role to administer Ohio EPA's ER program who provide 24 hour response support to first responders when chemicals are released involving truck wrecks, train derailments, sunken barges, fixed facility malfunctions, fires & explosions, well pads, pipeline construction, and others.
Hoby Griset, PE, President, Utility Technologies International
Mr. Griset is a 1978 Cum Laude graduate of the University of Utah with a Bachelor of Science degree in Mining Engineering. He is a registered Professional Engineer in Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia, and has over 37 years of experience in the natural gas industry. Mr. Griset was a long-time board member of the Ohio Gas Association, serving as president in 1998-1999, and holds a seat on the board of directors of Kentucky Energy Development.
State Board of Registration Update
Participants will learn:visions of the Ohio transportation budget signed by Governor John Kasich
John Greenhalge, Executive Director, Ohio State Board of Rgeistration for PEs and PSs
In April 2006, the Board appointed John Greenhalge as Executive Director. John has been with the Board since 1998 previously serving as the enforcement officer and as the assistant executive director. Prior to joining the Board, John worked for the Franklin County Prosecuting Attorney''s office and Sears Roebuck & Co. John has a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration and a Masters of Business Administration degree from Ashland University.
Can Congress Tackle the Nation's Infrastructure Crisis
(Lunch Speaker)
Participants will learn:
Brian Pallasch, CAE, Managing Director, Government Relations & Infrastructure Initiatives, American Society of Civil Engineers, Washington, DCSince 1999, Brian Pallasch has been responsible for managing ASCE's government relations department including federal and state legislative affairs, regulatory affairs, grassroots and policy development. Mr. Pallasch is currently responsible for managing ASCE's strategic initiatives regarding infrastructure including development of the Report for America's Infrastructure. Additionally, he serves as the co-chair of the Water Resources Coalition. Mr. Pallasch holds a Master of Arts degree in international affairs from the American University, and a Bachelor of Arts degree in journalism and international affairs from the University of Southern California.
Legislative Update - Movement on Bills
Participants will learn:
Louis Blessing, III, PE, State Representative, House District 29
State Representative Louis W. Blessing, III is serving his second term in the Ohio House of Representatives. He represents the 29th Ohio House District, which includes portions of western Hamilton County. Representative Blessing has an extensive background in electrical engineering. He currently works as an engineer at Super Systems, Inc. in Cincinnati and previously worked at Duke Energy and Nova Engineering. He earned his Bachelor of Arts in mathematics and Bachelor of Science in electrical engineering at the University of Cincinnati. The Representative is a licensed professional engineer and is a member of the Ohio Society of Professional Engineers.
Upgrading Our Nation's Electric Grid
Participants will learn:
Kamran Ali, PE, Director, Transmission Planning, American Electric Power
Kamran Ali is Director of the East Transmission Planning Department at AEP. Kamran oversees transmission planning efforts for AEP's easter states of Ohio, Kentucky, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Indiana, and Michigan. He also managees the team supporting competitive transmission development in PJM and MISO RTOs. Kamran holds a BS in Electrical Engineering from Universith of Alabama, an MS in Electrical Engineering from Kansas State University, and an MBA from Ohio University.
Click here to locate your legislator. You will need to mark "Zip Code" and then type in your home zip code with its 4-digit extension.


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At present the College does not have English language courses. If necessary, we recommend students enrol into and successfully complete the 'English for Theology Level 1' course provided by Australia Onsung International College prior to commencing studies with Hillsong College.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Basket: 0 Items - £0.00(View)
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Dragons Breath has over twenty years technical experience within renewable technologies and is now in a position to share the expertise gained with those persons and organisations seeking to provide cost effective and sustainable power generation systems and battery storage for the future.
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Our overall goal is to help as many people as possible understand the importance of energy, and the need to safeguard the future combined with the resources required to produce this ever increasing commodity. The increased eradication of many of our most valuable fossil fuels with the subsequent rising costs in energy production has made many second generation antipollution activists steer governments around the world in the direction of conservation and in turn renewable energy.
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1. Your friendships
You relationships with your girlfriends will change — especially if you're first in your crew to get married.
2. Your privacy expectations
You may have to ask some friends to give you back their copies of your keys and tell your besties not to flop on your bed or dig through your drawers, even if they've been doing it for 15 years.
3. Holiday season
Holiday plans are no longer assumed and may become more of a negotiation. You'll probably find yourself hosting more of them at your house in order to include everyone and keep the peace. For many couples, the first Thanksgiving and Christmas are political quagmires.
4. Your spending habits
No more shopping on a whim for expensive items, you'll have to coordinate all of your financial matters as a couple. There will have to be a budget (hopefully a somewhat flexible one) and you have to be completely honest about your spending with each other.
5. Your bank accounts
You're not financially "independent" anymore — you're half of a couple. You need to create a joint checking account and put each other on all of each other's accounts, not forgetting to change beneficiaries on existing paperwork at your office and financial institutions. You have to establish a savings plan and financial goals.
6. Your schedule
Hopefully, the two of you are sharing household chores and responsibilities, but whether it's work or play, you'll be spending more time together. And you have two families you're obligated to spend time with and professional obligations you must attend as a couple. Even if you've been together awhile, how much time these things consume will double.
source: modernghana.com


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MIRAMAR, Calif. — A brush fire blackened about four acres on the east side of Marine Corps Air Station Miramar before being brought under control this afternoon.
Units from the San Diego Fire-Rescue Department were dispatched to help the Miramar Fire Department gain control of the blaze, which was reported about 12:30 p.m. off Miramar Way near Kearny Villa Road, according to city fire officials.
No visibility restrictions or evacuation orders were issued, according to Miramar spokesman 1st Lt. Chad Hill.


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I've recently encountered the following error message:
mount: mounting /dev/disk/by-uuid/3f7f5cd9d-6ea3-4da7-b5ec-**** on /root
failed: Invalid argument
mount: mounting /sys on /root/sys failed: No such file or directory
mount: mounting /dev on /root/dev failed: No such file or directory
mount: mounting /sys on /root/sys failed: No such file or directory
mount: mounting /proc on /root/proc failed: No such file or directory
Target file system doesn't have /sbin/init.
No init found. Try passing init= bootarg.
Busybox v1.18.5 (Ubuntu 1:1.18.5-1ubuntu4) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.
(initramfs) _
I run
sudo fsck /dev/sda2 which is the Ubuntu ext4 root partition via LiveCD. It checked and fixed the file system. The next time I boot, Ubuntu started to load with the Ubuntu logo and the dots underneath for several hours (with the mouse pointer active on the screen), I even let the computer on overnight but still it did not successfully boot or got to the login screen in the morning.
I booted again with the LiveCD and checked the NTFS partitions with
ntfsfix and again the NTFS partitions was checked and fixed successfully. I also edited my
fstab and commented out the lines that auto-mounts the NTFS partitions. The next time I boot, it took almost 20 minutes for Ubuntu to get to the login screen, after typing the password it took an additional 10 minutes for Ubuntu to get to the desktop. On the desktop, it take several minutes to open any program, displaying the Dash alone takes 5 minutes!
Is there a fix for this without having to reinstall Ubuntu? I don't see or get any errors, Ubuntu is just taking too long to boot and to run programs. Please help!


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From Spain to Syria: a tale of two civil wars
Australia no longer tolerates its nationals going abroad to fight another country's war - especially a war as devoid of ideological merit as the one in Syria, writes Rodger Shanahan.
In Canberra's Yarralumla, the same suburb that hosts the Governor-General's residence, sits a monument to 70 Australians who fought in Spain's civil war more than 75 years ago.
Australia was officially neutral in the conflict, although at the time it resonated with many in the country and posed difficult questions for both the Australian Labor Party and the Catholic Church. Now, more than seven decades later, significantly more Australians are involved in another foreign civil war.
Attitudes to the conflict in Syria though are different. To most Australians, it is remote, savage and alien, and has failed to gain popular attention at either an individual or institutional level. There are many reasons for this; the sectarian nature of the conflict is alien to a secular country, the background of those Australians killed fails to resonate with the average Australian, and the proliferation of Islamist groups in the opposition makes most Australians view participants as posing a security threat on their return.
The Spanish civil war was seen by many of those who participated as a war against the totalitarian forces of fascism, an attempt to forestall the victory of forces who were bent on further expansion.
Over 50,000 foreigners fought against Franco's Nationalist forces. Many of them were socialists or communists and were organised into international brigades. Of the Australians who participated, nearly all were communists or trade unionists, although their individual motivations for going varied from an ideological commitment to stop the expansion of fascism to a simple desire for adventure.
The existence of 'Spanish Relief Committees' in Australia that sought funding and volunteers made the passage somewhat easier. Spain's Catholic Church sided with Franco's forces against what it saw as the Godless communists, and at least one Australian Catholic joined Franco's forces as a consequence.
Perhaps what stands out from that civil war, though, is the inspiration for literary and artistic works that have had a significant effect on Western thought about totalitarianism and war. Pablo Picasso's legendary anti-war painting Guernica, named after the town bombed by German and Italian aircraft in 1937, stands as a symbol to the cost of war on civilian populations. George Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984 were inspired in part by his own experience of watching Stalinist purges of Trotskyites in the Spanish Republican forces on whose side he was fighting, some of which was included in his Homage to Catalonia that catalogued his own experience of the war.
Ernest Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls is another work based in part on Hemingway's own experiences that uses the Spanish civil war's foreign fighters as a vehicle for explaining the futility of war. The future West German chancellor and Nobel peace prize winner Willy Brandt covered the Spanish Civil War as a journalist, and as a dedicated socialist, his experience of the way in which the Soviets dealt with those they saw as their ideological enemies on their own side gave him a lifelong aversion to communism in general and Stalinism in particular.
While the Syrian civil war is as brutal and vicious as Spain's, it is unlikely that the participants in the Syrian civil war will throw up any works of lasting cultural value to mankind, or produce any towering political or literary figures of the future. All civil wars are brutish and nasty by definition, but this one seems to be devoid of any ideological merit entirely. A repressive autocratic government is facing a collection of opposition groups who long ago turned, or allowed the war to be turned, into one with religious overtones. It says something about the way in which the conflict has been hijacked by regional interests with little or no understanding of the second-order effects of their actions that the West now considers elements of the opposition to be their main security threat rather then the Assad regime.
In 1936, well before the 1978 Foreign Incursions and Recruitment Act was passed and September 11 and the Bali bombings brought home the reality of contemporary globalised violence in the name of religion, the then minister for health Billy Hughes in response to a parliamentary question regarding the participation of four Sydney nurses who had volunteered to work for the Spanish government claimed that:
While I should be prepared to exercise my powers of persuasion over them, and, if necessary offer them inducements to remain in Australia, officially I have no authority over them.
Six Australians who returned from the Spanish civil war were greeted by a welcoming crowd of 3,000 in Sydney. And, while the connections of the volunteers with the communists always remained with them, the onset of the war in Europe forced the government to look towards more pressing matters. While their individual politics may still be looked on in a poor light, with the benefit of hindsight a case can be made for the fact that their stance against fascism was the right one.
Nowadays both the Australian Government and the population is much less tolerant of its nationals going abroad to fight someone else's war. Citizens have been detained at airports and charged with trying to join, or facilitating the recruitment of fighters for opposition groups in Syria. Many more have had their passports confiscated on suspicion that they may join these groups. Australians scoff at the stories offered up by spokespeople that some of its nationals have been killed while providing 'humanitarian assistance' to opposition forces. And they are rightly repulsed at the thought that one of its own citizens would make a martyrdom video invoking God before detonating a truck bomb with him inside.
In contrast to the Spanish civil war, the Syrian conflict doesn't resonate with Australia's major political institutions or with Australians individually. Its brutality may even surpass that of Spain, even if its relevance doesn't. It is a small war, in part now a proxy war sponsored by regional autocratic governments of varying hues and fought by groups with whom most in the West have no ideological affinity.
How the post-civil war Syria will turn out is yet to be determined, but it is fair to say that in 75 years' time there won't be any monuments to Australians who participated in the Syrian civil war.
Dr Rodger Shanahan is a non-resident fellow at the Lowy Institute of International Policy. View his full profile here.
Topics: unrest-conflict-and-war, world-politics
First posted
Comments (81)
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the yank:
06 Jun 2014 7:26:12am
Interesting article, thanks.
The fear of Islam bringing its conflict back here is stronger then the fear of communism back in the 1930's. As it turned out communism was as destructive as Islam seems to be at present but that wasn't really know until after WWII.
06 Jun 2014 8:04:56am
people enthusiastic for an ideology or cause to the exclusion of all else will always be a problem, regardless of what it actually is
06 Jun 2014 8:25:24am
The Islamic extremists are a manufactures threat. Most terrorism is blamed on these groups to pivk fights i.e start invasions.
Look at who created Islam in the beginning, look at the creation stories and there similarity to the Catholic Church. Why would the Roman Catholics invent Islam? Did the Catholics want to take Jerusalem off the Jews but where now a church as opposed to an army so needed someone else to do the killing for them?
Who created Al Qaeda? Was it the CIA who created them to fight the Soviets?
Who are the real villains?
As for Syria, whats the difference between Australian fighting there as opposed to going to blow up Iraq and Afghanistan with the US? The difference is if the government tells you to blow up foreign countries without UN sanctions ts not considered murder.
06 Jun 2014 9:09:13am
"Look at who created Islam in the beginning, look at the creation stories and there similarity to the Catholic Church."
You will find that many religions share similarities in their mythology. There are a few reasons for this--broadly you can say they're similar because they're all creations of human beings who view the world in similar ways. Specifically you can say they're similar because they all originate/are influenced by from ancient mythology, such as Greek beliefs.
"Why would the Roman Catholics invent Islam? Did the Catholics want to take Jerusalem off the Jews but where now a church as opposed to an army so needed someone else to do the killing for them?"
Heh, the Catholic Church didn't have all that much trouble raising armies against... anyone.
Also, why is it that conspiracy theorists can never string a coherent sentence together? Come on, mate, at least try.
"Who created Al Qaeda? Was it the CIA who created them to fight the Soviets?"
You're on slightly firmer ground, but not by much. It's true that the CIA funded, trained and perhaps armed extremist factions back in the Cold War days, however it's a stretch to say these groups were created by the CIA. They seem to spring up as a result of poverty, lack of education, lack of access to resources... the breeding ground of extremism is human suffering.
"Who are the real villains?"
I know it's comforting to believe that there's a shadowy organisation or some greater purpose at work with this stuff... partly because it takes away a sense of personal responsibility, partly because it brings an order to the chaos around us.
However, human greed, hatred and bigotry can't really be blamed on anyone but, well, us. The truth is that we don't have a great and powerful enemy like the Catholic Church or the CIA that's plotting all these terrible things. It's just people. Average people who in other circumstances would help old ladies cross the street, buy you a round in the pub or break bread with you... but instead these people who are probably very nice to their grey-haired mum are killing in the name of whatever they were brought up to believe, because they see no other choice.
It's awful to contemplate that the real enemy is the enemy within. That's what's so scary about terrorism. They aren't jack-booted Nazis in brown shirts, they're just people backed into a corner, literally or through their own perception.
I don't know what the answer may be, but it isn't to blame an organisation like the CIA which, let's be honest, can't find their socks when they're wearing them.
06 Jun 2014 10:53:48am
Nein, thanks for your comments,
To set the record straight, it helps to look at the timelines involved. After the Roman Empire put down their spears and picked up the bible, it was not a good look for the church to be the army. The Romans Empire transferred this responsibility on to other nations, such as the Spanish (Inquisition), Portuguese, Arabs etc.
The Romans wanted the Jews gone, because they could see through there false religion they created to control the world. The Jews have been around a long time and know that the Romans where just doing this to maintain there empire as it was falling apart under its own corruption. The Catholics didn't have problem raising armies, they just couldn't fight as part of the church. They could hide under there moral supremacy as justification fro there barbarous acts but not under the direct command of the pope. Hitler was a catholic as well.
The Catholics invented Islam to fight the jews out of Jerusalem. This was a precursor to the crusades. Uniting the arabs under Islam worked to a degree then backfired on the Romans as they now had an army and decided not to give back jerusalum, Thats when the crusades started by the Romans, to get the Arabs out of Jerusalem. WW1 was the completion of the crusades and WW2 and Israel were the end goal of the Crusades.
With regards to the CIA creating, arming, training Al Qaeda that is only the start of what they done. The arabs where united once more by capitalist to fight the soviets. It was a rather convenient way to fight the soviets fro the CIA, they would buy opium off them to finance the gorilla war and sell the drugs back in the US. This had the added benefit of stopping the Viet cong and US servicemen smuggling there drugs into the US, which was financing the opposition to the Vietnam War. Thats why there was so much prosecution of non sanctioned drugs in the US and why there jails are full of victimless criminals. The CIA made more money for foreign capitalist interventions by beefing up competition in the drug market. It was in the US governments interests to kill off as many blacks and lower class with drugs.
So who are the real villains? Who pays our politicians to act against the public interest? Who pay our politicians to borrow massive amounts of money off the NWO to stop Australias prosperity?
"but it isn't to blame an organisation like the CIA which, let's be honest, can't find their socks when they're wearing them."
its like Bin laden, they reckon they found him when they were ready to pull out. The truth is a man on kidney Dialysis and nearly dead could not have lived in the hills for 10 years+. He died long ago. It was just a convenient excuse to make more money for the US Military industrial finance complex. Worked for the US, we just spend $12 billion dollars on US war birds.
We are told what to believe. We are easily manipulated. We will go to war
06 Jun 2014 11:16:58am
but jerusalem was a byzantianian city, when it wasn't held temporarily by the persians.
06 Jun 2014 11:40:32am
Neither Mohammed nor his Companions nor any of the earliest chroniclers were Catholics, ex-Catholic or had a Catholic education. You can mount a case that Islam drew heavily from the Judeo-Christian traditions and melded them with Arabic ones, but that's a far cry from claiming the that the Church in Rome somehow had a hand in the rise of Islam. "The Jews" as you put it, hadn't been in control of Jerusalem for centuries. They weren't in control. No Arabs were required to take, retake or fight them out.
06 Jun 2014 12:24:10pm
An exponentially better post!
"To set the record straight, it helps to look at the timelines involved....."
I don't disagree, but to say the armies involved in the Crusades etc. were anything but overtly the armies of the Church is a stretch. But I'm not contesting what you said here...
"Hitler was a catholic as well."
Ha, well. Yes he never 'left' the Church, but he was as much of a Catholic as I am. He didn't pick a fight with the Catholic Church out of politics, but from what others have said he didn't have much to do with the Church. To mention that here (Godwin's Law strikes again) is meaningless.
"The Catholics invented Islam to fight the jews out of Jerusalem....."
And this is where it all falls apart. I'm not sure how to respond to this, because there's no historical basis for it.
Are you able to provide any independent, hopefully peer-reviewed studies or archaeological evidence for these theories? It'd be a start.
"With regards to the CIA creating, arming, training Al Qaeda that is only the start of what they done....."
This is a marvelous mix of actual fact and baseless connections. Just to cherry-pick, it is on record that the US Government targeted African American populations in their war on drugs.
However, the drug financing thing is murky at best--I think the CIA utilised drugs for various operations, but to start claiming that drugs financed anything on the scale you're talking about... the CIA wouldn't need to do that, especially during the Cold War.
"So who are the real villains?......."
The New World Order, eh? Look, the problem with all this is that it's a complex theory (based on conjecture) on something that's actually quite simple.
Why is Australia not doing well economically? It's simple: the world is running out of resources and the global population is increasing, which results in economic unrest and war. It's kinda obvious, isn't it? More people + less stuff = no more good times.
"its like Bin laden, they reckon they found him when they were ready to pull out....."
He wasn't living in the hills for ten years. He was moving around Pakistan, and ended up in a fancy big compound with the tacit cooperation/knowledge of the Pakistani intelligence services (well, either that or they were REALLY inept, which is a strong possibility).
Look... I'm not saying there aren't conspiracies out there. Of course there are. I'm fairly sure that the US knew there was no evidence of WMDs in Iraq before launching the invasion. But we all KNEW that, too. The bigger the actual conspiracy, the more transparent it is.
I firmly believe your conspiracy theories aren't true because I don't for a moment believe any institution is capable of that level of organisation. The causes of terr
06 Jun 2014 3:54:29pm
rabbithole claimed: "The Romans wanted the Jews gone, because they could see through there false religion they created to control the world. ..."
And there we have the answer.
Our correspondent rabbithole subscribes to the old Tsarist OGPU propaganda story which created The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the classic anti-Semitic document which has fuelled every racist pogrom since the 19thC.
It's been identified and discredited since the 1920s. Anybody who STILL subscribes to its racism is similarly discredited.
It's tinfoil hat time!
06 Jun 2014 7:03:05pm
Good points you make Mio. Recommended reading for Rabbit might be Michael Goldfarb's "Emancipation". Reading it helped me understand what drove zionism in the first place. No wonder the Jews wanted a land of their own.
The holocaust just the last straw!
Have a good one.
06 Jun 2014 11:15:31am
wasn't it a belief of mohammad that christiantiy was gods message that had been corrupted by men, and that he was given instructions to bring it back and forward.
hence why jesus and abraham are koran characters too
06 Jun 2014 3:48:47pm
Hence the term 'Abrahamic religions'. Most modern belief systems tend to be alike.
06 Jun 2014 9:19:15am
Are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church somehow created Islam in a peninsula east of the Orthodox Roman (Byzantine) empire?
06 Jun 2014 9:20:51am
"Look at who created Islam in the beginning" .. umm, wasn't it the prophet Mohamed.
And the Roman Catholics didn't invent islam. That's like saying the Jews invented the RCs. It was more like an offshoot that took on a life of its own.
"The difference is if the government tells you to blow up foreign countries without UN sanctions ts not considered murder" You do know that soldiers in Iraqi and Afghanistan have been charged with murder don't you
Closet Romantic:
06 Jun 2014 11:13:36am
Of course Islam and Christianity have similar creation myths they are both developed from Judaism.
This is what is so weird all three religions worship the same god hold Abraham as the original prophet it's all just variations on various themes and different reforming prophets.
It's all about tolerating different ideas
06 Jun 2014 12:41:36pm
I don't really think it's the Islam religion or the Communism belief that should be blamed. The belief itself should be respected as they are not spread anything against human rights or a stable society. However, there can be people using a incorrect interpretation to cause conflicts which can sometimes be deliberate.
06 Jun 2014 7:47:43am
"While the Syrian civil war is as brutal and vicious as Spain's, it is unlikely that the participants in the Syrian civil war will throw up any works of lasting cultural value to mankind, or produce any towering political or literary figures of the future."
Perhaps not in the English language, so few in the west will obtain the benefit in years to come. The comment, unfortunately, comes across as racist or at best, elitist, despite the fact that the author may not have intended it.
06 Jun 2014 7:55:13am
"How the post-civil war Syria will turn out is yet to be determined, but it is fair to say that in 75 years' time there won't be any monuments to Australians who participated in the Syrian civil war."
Bet you're wrong on that Doc. You'll only have to look in the homes, mosques and meeting places of families of the deceased participants. Their photos will be everywhere. No, they won't have the traditional "war memorial on the village green", but monuments there will be. Each side - Sunni or Shia - will have their own. It will not cease until the west stops backing one side or the other and the two are left to sort out their differences - which is unlikely on both counts.
06 Jun 2014 10:00:01am
"Each side - Sunni or Shia - will have their own. It will not cease until the west stops backing one side or the other and the two are left to sort out their differences "
Cough.... each side had hundreds and hundreds of years to sort out their differences... they didn't want to, and have no interest in doing so.
The USA and Russia (and china/france etc) most certainly use whatever groups they can manipulate to achieve their geopolitical goals, and continue to do so, however their manipulation is limited by the amount that the group in question is prepared to agree to, ie. the manipulation isn't manipulation as such more of an agreed and mutually beneficial goal. For example Iran is happy to receive Russian support and be its proxy and act in the geopolitcal interests of Russia whilst achieving its own political goals.
06 Jun 2014 10:35:25am
Further to your point about geopolitics. It is my opinion that Syria is an offshoot of Iraq. Al Quaeda's goal was to create a unified Islamic Caliphate which could challenge the US regionally. By destroying Baghdad as a power base and allowing Tehran to threaten the Hejaz, the US set off a chain reaction which has culminated in Syria, Egypt and Libya all being rendered impotent. the Gulf States are utterly reliant on the US to protect them from Tehran and are just as hostile to al Quaeda.
In short, the US has won. Al Quaeda has lost. The Islamic world is in turmoil from which it will take decades to recover. By that time, Gulf oil will be all but irrelevant and Turkey, never a particularly Islamic state, will be the dominant power in the region.
Whatever you may think about Iraq and Afghanistan, the US has accomplished its goals cheaply (unless you're an Afghan or Iraqi) and has put potential enemies on notice that challenging the US anywhere in the world is a dangerous game.
06 Jun 2014 10:59:26am
Quite so Veganpuncher.
I particularly agree with your comment "The Islamic world is in turmoil from which it will take decades to recover. By that time, Gulf oil will be all but irrelevant ...."
06 Jun 2014 11:42:44am
Make sure you don't confuse the Islamic world with the Arabic or Middle Eastern world there, Joe!
06 Jun 2014 12:05:11pm
Hi Dove,
A fair point, Islam is in the Pacific and in Africa too.
Though... to be fair... they are also in turmoil. Be it the endless cycle of violence in Africa or the endemic corruption and barbarity associated with Sharia law in the Pacific.
06 Jun 2014 1:28:13pm
Joe B - you're quite correct of course. The Syrian civil war is a war by proxy. Russia backs Iran which backs Syria on the one hand and on the other, the Saudis and Qatar supply the military hardware, with NATO/CIA assistance in "non-military" goods - e.g. the gas masks provided by the UK - coincidentally, just before a gas attack, plus training and other non-lethal goods. But essentially, it's still a war between Sunni and Shia (weren't they a famous male/female duo in the '60's?).
Naturally, the US, being the chief protagonist behind the scenes, is jumping with joy at all this middle-eastern disarray. In doing so, they make more enemies each day and it won't be many more years before old animosities are temporarily put aside and Muslims at large take on the USA and its allies. Which is why Australia needs to get rid of the troublemakers before it's too late.
06 Jun 2014 2:39:34pm
You are completely wrong, Fitz. The US is an empire, of course it makes enemies - it must to preserve its power. The mistake you make is assuming that old enemies will unite to face them. The game is called Divide and Conquer, and every empire, ever, has played it. The difference is that, with modern communications technology, the US has the ability to snip any collaborative efforts in the bud with a short spoiling effort - as it did in Iraq. Look at the chaos it caused. Can you really imagine the Arabs being united again? They can't even get together to cast out the Jews living in a vulnerable enclave on the edge of the Mediterranean. No, we are much safer siding with the big boys.
06 Jun 2014 7:59:48am
Why doesn't he?
What man does to man in religion's name
is beyond belief and much to our shame.
Sects appeal to the young and naive
who give lives to God as parents grieve.
The trouble is the lives that they give
are those of others who'd much rather to live.
We see in Syria, where it's Shia vs Sunni,
Uncivil war fuelled by foreign money.
Oil rich kingdoms fund terrorists to kill
civilians, their non-halal butcher's bill.
"Unconscionable" the UN terms such actions,
so the West only arms certain rebel factions.
Hundreds of thousands of Syrians dead.
Millions more homeless or living in dread.
Obama could end it tomorrow with a word,
end the slaughter of Shia, Sunni, Kurd,
Alawite, Christian, whatever the label.
One word to cut through infinite Babel.
06 Jun 2014 10:36:15am
It is in the US interest for the Arab countries to fight among themselves rather than unite. That's why.
06 Jun 2014 8:01:17am
It is not a civil war. The rebels are funded and supported by Saudi arabia and Qatar with plenty of assistance coming from America and other western governments. The majority of Syrians hate the fundamentalist parasites and want the war to end. You might want to mention the chemical weapons attacks that were conducted in Syria were eventually shown by the journalist Seymour Hersh to be a product of the rebels not the Syrian government.
06 Jun 2014 9:41:35am
I agree. Just by a narrow margin we avoided being sucked into a war that is primarily a 'religious' war fueled by Islamist extremists - when Barrack Obama visited Saudi Arabia I applauded him not being 'bullied' 'co-coerced' into pouring arms into Syria to support these extremists - despite being urged to do so by tired old war-dogs in the USA. Remarks by both the Secretary of State USA and England's Foreign Affairs in so called support of the liberation of Syria are based on ignorance and stupidity - if Syria is a nightmare now - wait and watch when the Assad regime is overthrown - if it is.
And 'yes' Australia must take a rigid stand - to the extent of removing the right of residence and even granted citizenship to those who have participated in this war - or we will eventually reap a harvest from the seeds sown in those who did go and fight.
06 Jun 2014 10:18:38am
Ok Where to start.
Yes the rebels are funded from outside, but not by America, and recent comments by a very senior American official, which embarrassed the White House should be testament to that fact. That Assad is similarly propped up by Iran and Russia is uncontroversial.
Seymour Hersh proved nothing, only suggested that another group may have access to chemical weapons. the idea that they were responsible is seen by most as a very long bow
All civil wars are supported by outsiders. if we are to look at the Spanish Civil War, the Italians and Germans offered entire fighting squadrons, Naval and air units. That foreigners were fighting in the war was also well known, but the Fascists were helped by the fact that there was an arms embargo on the war, and since they were the the army fighting civil forces, this fact helped one side over the other. one should never think that outsiders do not affect civil wars or are active players. It doesn't mean it isn't a civil war.
06 Jun 2014 8:03:27am
It was Syria's secular and religiously tolerant opposition that first demonstrated against the Assad regime, got shot at by government snipers and took to arms.
The West's collective failure to support them opened the way to the jihadist internationale who have been generously supplied by Arab states opposing the Assad regime. From there it was the case of the two uglies fighting each other.
06 Jun 2014 9:12:56am
And that's what's wrong with the left: you don't know what you want. Read David S.'s comment below about us not getting involved.
Make up your minds. The thing is, getting involved involves sometimes messy consequences. Giving money and arms sometimes means that money and those arms end up in the wrong hands. Not getting involved means things drag on forever and, when it comes to Islam, the whack job Jihadis get involved and start chopping heads off.
Oh, and getting involved means America. You know, that country that gets all the blame for all the bad in world. Irony?
06 Jun 2014 10:40:45am
I'm curious Peter. What about Morrgo's post led you to conclude that he was "the left"? From where I'm reading, he could equally be "the right". Or, just somebody expressing an opinion with no firm alliance to either side.
06 Jun 2014 1:05:22pm
Lucky guess? You may be right, but when I see the stuff about how it's "the West's collective failure" I tend to think lefty. It's the West's fault for everything. Since forever.
You know, my bad for invading Iraq (that place was Disneyland before the USA got involved); my bad for invading Afghanistan (Paradise on earth where no girl ever went to school in fear and ne'er a refugee was to be heard or a stoning to be seen).
Now I tend to read and hear things about how "we" are failing to help the poor, peace loving Syrian rebels. The "we" and only "we" will be every lefty's favourite villain, the USA. Can you see China or Europe getting involved? With the UN's "blessing?"
David S.:
06 Jun 2014 8:16:39am
The claim that we're less tolerant of other people's wars nowadays would seem undermined by our continuing enthusiasm for becoming involved in any war America (and before them Britain) sets its heart on. Australia is a nation that has almost exclusively become involved *only* in other people's wars, and each time we manage to convince ourselves (or be convinced by our government) that they are of vital national interest to us, when in fact they are not.
If America had become involved in the Syrian bloodbath in a more overt manner you can bet your bottom dollar we'd have troops there now and our leaders would be making speeches about how vital to our security it was that we help bring freedom and democracy to the Syrian people and defeat the terrorists hiding there.
Does anyone doubt for one minute that if the neocon hawks get their way and the US starts a war against Iran we won't be sending troops into that conflict?
06 Jun 2014 9:05:06am
If an Australian wanted to fight in Syria they would be arrested as terrorists but if they wanted to go and fight in Iran, the government would probably buy them the plane ticket and a gun. Thats the difference, it depends who the government want to win the conflict.
We have an attack force not a defense force. We go and blow up whoever the US tell us to, thats why they donate so much money to the ALPLNPGr's. Is that a sovereign nation? Is that a real democracy when foreigners and multinationals can buy the ALPLNPGr's monopoly?
Thats capitalism, every commodity has a price and political commodities are the most profitable corporations on earth as they can divert tax payer money to fight other peoples wars for the sake of a bit of propaganda money come election time
06 Jun 2014 9:50:23am
Unfortunately have to agree with David S and Rabbithole, eg look at inconsistency of treatment to Australian citizens caught as enemy combatants in Afghanistan versus those who served with IDF during invasion of Lebanon.
06 Jun 2014 10:38:37am
ex-IDF members don't come back to Australia wanting to turn us into a Jewish fundamentalist state. They do their service and come back and be lawyers. there's the difference. It's not rocket science.
06 Jun 2014 11:03:11am
That may not be rocket science but it certainly is conjecture. Surely we don't want anyone who goes overseas for recreational war- we'd much prefer they fight them only when necessary and only for Australia. The reality is that the people fighting in Syria represent a wide range of motivations and interests, none of which would be ideal citizens on their return- a yardstick we should apply without prejudice.
06 Jun 2014 11:52:50am
What is the difference between sending Australians to fight unsanctioned UN invasions and them going and fighting there own unsanctioned invasions. Its a very slippery slope.
Besides the Australian government has no legal jurisdiction at all once a citizen leaves the country. The government can claim they do as much as they like, but there admiralty laws stop at the border.
06 Jun 2014 12:28:31pm
"What is the difference between sending Australians to fight unsanctioned UN invasions and them going and fighting there own unsanctioned invasions."
One is based on national interest. The other might not be. So as far as Australia is concerned, there can be a clear difference depending on where the person is going and why.
"the Australian government has no legal jurisdiction at all once a citizen leaves the country"
A nation has as much jurisdiction as it permits itself and can physically enforce. Even if we can't enforce our laws on a person while they're in another country, we can enforce those laws the moment they come into our reach.
"but there admiralty laws stop at the border."
Actually, I believe admiralty law starts at the border and ends at the beach. And it mainly deals with boats - unless you're referring to some pseudolegal term you've invented.
06 Jun 2014 2:50:18pm
that's b/c the Taliban were evil and the IDF responded to a real threat from Hizbullah - may disagree with their tactics but they had every right to stop Hizbullah firing rockets into Southern Israel.
Lawrence of Bavaria :
06 Jun 2014 10:15:43am
I agree, David. We're like the nerdy kid at school who so desperately wanted to be popular he did everything the "cool" kids asked him to.
Only our armed forces paid with their lives every time they stood "shoulder to shoulder" with the Brits and later the Americans. To be a good friend means not to blindly go along with everything stupid your mate comes up with. If you see eye to eye with a friend then you tell him exactly what you think, to get lost, to drop it or where he can shove his great idea. And if he's the great friend he makes you belive he is he will respect that - and you for it.
A friendship based on doing everything your "friend" wants and ignoring everything you believe is right is worth nothing.
And a few lopsided trade deals, the occasional pat on the back from the Leader of the Free World and a seat at the table of the UN Security Council is not worth an Australian soldier's life. Not one.
We have to speak up more.
06 Jun 2014 10:40:14am
It's nothing to do with mateship. Australia is reliant on the US to protect our trade routes. In order to pay for this protection, we send our military off to serve in their wars. It's a cheap price unless you happen to be the Digger who doesn't come back.
06 Jun 2014 9:08:32am
"Nowadays both the Australian Government and the population is much less tolerant of its nationals going abroad to fight someone else's war."
Says who? Who was polled? Certainly the government is less tolerant of lots of things. Non-Sectarian people may be less tolerant.
I think all those from either side who feel they need to be involved in this conflict SHOULD go if their loyalty to their religion or Syria is greater than that to Australia. However once they have left these shores their passports should be revoked.
I am sure my Basque great grandfather living in Sydney during the Spanish civil war would have been an opponent of Franco- even if he didn't go to fight.
Why should Australia become so fanatic in the War on Terror that we now associate anyone who wants to defend their former homelands with terrorism.
06 Jun 2014 10:03:54am
"Why should Australia become so fanatic in the War on Terror that we now associate anyone who wants to defend their former homelands with terrorism"
Most likely because the Basque's would be satisfied with a free and independent nation broken away from Spain and leave it at that.
Unlike the religiously inspired islamic fighters who have been brainwashed into supporting the idea of the islamification of the entire planet (which of course includes Australia).
ie. once they finish in Syria the concern is they will want to carry the fight on here down under. Which is not in our best interests at all.
06 Jun 2014 6:19:35pm
The majority Sunni Syrians are fighting to be free of the Shia (Alawite) Syrians that have ruled for years. The middle east is full of regimes where minorities dominate majorities- usually of the other faith.
The Basques are a minority who feel they should be separate and have via ETA been trying to do it. No different from the Croatians and Bosnians breaking away from Yugoslavia. The native russians in the Crimea breaking away from Ukraine, the Biafrans breaking away from Nigeria, the southern Sudanese breaking away from the northern Sudanese
Multiculturalism might be stable in Australia but many people in many countries would prefer NOT to be bound by lines on maps created by the colonial powers centuries ago.
Remember Czechoslavakia? Gone peacefully when the Czechs and the Slovaks VOTED to separate. I think the concept of indivisible nation states needs to become one of DIVISIBLE states that can vote to go their own ways.
Of course West Australia might just want to do that- they have before. In the USA the Confederacy might rise again.
Peter of Melbourne:
06 Jun 2014 11:02:53am
I am in 100% agreement Martin
Those whose loyalty lies elsewhere than this nation should be allowed to engage offshore in unsanctioned armed conflict as they want and never be allowed to set foot upon our shores ever again.
We elect Governments to make decisions such as when and where our armed forces will engage in combat and if people really feel the need to engage in such activities then join the military... in this day and age the chances of seeing combat in some far shore are almost certain.
06 Jun 2014 9:14:16am
Given the reference to Homage to Catalonia, it might be worth reflecting on Orwell's becoming disillusioned with the conflict, and the way the Republican's fought each other and repressed alternative ideas as well. They are very different conflicts. But perhaps not quite as different as suggested here.
Ditto to Filz above - it's presumptuous and arrogant to assume that nothing of lasting cultural value will come out of the Syrian conflict. Maybe it won't, but predicting that is ridiculous.
06 Jun 2014 10:16:17am
I don't know.. there could be some art in the form of post modern surrealism depicting barrel bombs flattening suburbs of Syria that some art lover will go all gooey over in years to come and pay millions for.
There will also be 'epic' photojournalistic pictures of some starving children in refugee camps that folks in art galleries will discuss using pretentious 'weasel words' in order to make themselves seem more important to themselves. Thats 'culture' you know.
Much like the cultural value ascribed to Salvador Dali's work The Hunch of the Spanish Civil War, or Pieter Brueghel the Elder's work the Massacre of the Innocents (depicting the christian civil war between the Catholics and Protestants).
06 Jun 2014 2:32:44pm
Giant murals (mosaics would be fitting) of wedding parties blown to bits in Afghanistan by Hellfire missiles fired from Predator drones could be the 'Christian' equivalent.
The possibilities are endless.
06 Jun 2014 9:33:20am
While-ever we have nation states we will have all the paraphenalia which goes with them and that includes national boundaries, legal systems, governments, police, gaols, militaries etc etc.
Soldiers were all right for people with arrested childhoods to play with before we had nuclear weapons, but not since. Police and gaols make a lot of sense as long as you know very little about human inheritance and brain function.
National boundaries, especially protecting the fool things, astonishingly makes sense to some people, but you've got to wonder just where they were when it was all being given out.
It really is time we had a sensible thought about just what is a suitable society - and hence political structure - for this animal Homo sapiens about which we have learnt ( and relearnt) quite a lot, painfully, slowly, and at horrendous expense.
06 Jun 2014 10:21:56am
I'm pretty sure we haven't yet worked out what is a suitable society and political structure for Homo sapiens as yet.
We have come pretty close with secular representative democracy, but it still has a few flaws relating to the consolidation and abuse of power in the hands of the wealthy and elites who can fund and control political campaigns.
Perhaps 'Collective Individualism' will be an answer?
06 Jun 2014 9:49:05am
"Australia no longer tolerates its nationals going abroad to fight another country's war" - Not so.
As demonstrated by the Ben Zygier (Prisoner X) scandal, members of the Australian Jewish community have been joining the Israel Defence Force (IDF) for decades.
These people who hold Australian passports have chosen to participate in the armed forces of a foreign nation and the Australian government does nothing about it.
There is legitimate argument that Australians returning from the Syrian conflict could pose a threat to our society due to possible radicalisation.
The same can be said of ex members of the IDF given the documented abuses conducted daily against Palestinians. Do they bring indoctrinated hatreds back home?
Our government needs to answer why Australian passport holders are permitted to participate in Israels armed forces and the ongoing subjugation of the Palestinian people.
06 Jun 2014 11:33:48am
Your argument equating Australians who serve in the IDF with Islamic fanatics only makes sense on a superficial level. Israel is full of progressive and democratic bodies comprising ex-IDF soldiers, (notably ex-Officers) who oppose Government policy and work actively through legal and welfare/medical channels to help the Palestinian people.
I am aware that there are many individuals on the Palestinian side who also want to seek a peaceful compromise with Israel. Unfortunately, when they speak or act, they often end up with their throats cut.
That's the difference......
06 Jun 2014 2:29:34pm
David, ArtC quoted the general statement:
"Australia no longer tolerates its nationals going abroad to fight another country's war."
As such, the fact that Australia tolerates this when it involves Australian citizens fighting in the IDF shows that this statement has exceptions. We need indeed to think about the nature of any exception including this particular one and whether it is justified, although we cannot do so until the matter has been raised, which ArtC has done well to do. We should also think about whether the Syrian civil war is simply about religion, and/or "Islamic fanatics". I bet it isn't and history will show this. So many armchair experts with so much understanding - where do they get it from?
Like Martin (above) I have also been wondering when the Australia "people" ever voted or were even polled on the question of Australians fighting in wars overseas, and given the example of 1930s Spain, I at any rate have pondered when and why it became so wicked. But it seems these days we are, think, etc whatever the government of the day says we do.
06 Jun 2014 4:02:12pm
Hi CM,
I can appreciate the point you are making so far as it regards Australian's serving in the IDF. I confess to not being completely across the legalities of this issue, but my understanding is that there is some difference (currently) in Australians serving in the standing armed forces of allied, or at least closely aligned (for want of better term) Western nations then an irregular extra-state group. I know Australians who have served with the IDF and the French Foreign Legion who then went on to serve in Australia's regular security forces. I think the attitude there, was that these forces have trained together and have a certain trust that would not exist for someone who had been a volunteer in the Taliban or a Balkan militia.
You gave the example of Spain in the Civil War. Australians volunteered to fight for an elected Government. However international alignments were different then than today. As several other writers to this column have noted, many of the volunteers served in Communist formations effectively under Soviet control, and the Communist themselves were undermining the Republic for ends just as much as the Fascists - to the point of murdering their erstwhile allies. The volunteers legacy was also confused by the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939, that for all intents and purposes saw Communist Russia as Nazi Germany's ally for the first two years of the Second World War
06 Jun 2014 1:47:47pm
You need to go back and look at the intent of the 1978 law. It was introduced in response to a number of Australians going overseas to serve as mercenaries. The law does not prohibit people from serving in foreign defence forces - such as the IDF or the British Defence Forces or the US defence forces or the NZ defence forces.
06 Jun 2014 9:51:54am
Dr Shanahan suggests that "The Spanish civil war was seen by many of those who participated as a war against the totalitarian forces of fascism, an attempt to forestall the victory of forces who were bent on further expansion"
It is perhaps worth pointing out however that most people saw it for what it really was, a war between two competing totalitarian forces (national socialists and communists).
The sad thing was it was the innocents who suffered the most as the Russian and German sponsors sort to create their puppet state in Spain.
The same situation has once again occured in Syria, whereby two competing totalitarian groups (the Syrian hereditary dictatorship v the islamic religious dictatorship) are competing over the Syrian land and population. With Russia and the Islamic states being the sponsors this time.
Again the sad thing is that what began as a demand by the Syrian population to live in a free true democratic society was swamped by the totalitarian forces by each side.
Again it is the innocents that suffer.....
and rightly the government of Australia is attempting to stop Australians from harming the innnocents.
06 Jun 2014 10:43:54am
Actually, the Syrian conflict is a result of Qatar trying to block an Iranian gas pipeline that was to be built through Syria. Qatar and Iran share a gas field. The Qataris don't want the Iranians to be able to pump that gas to Europe until they have their own line, through Israel, set up. Participants may see an ideological bent, but it's really just about two states which share a resource competing to see who can sell it to Europe.
06 Jun 2014 11:02:07am
Well noted Veganpuncher.
Isn't all war over the ability to control access to key and strategic resources?
Note too Russia is enjoying its ability to hold Europe to ransom by dominating the supply of gas to Europe .....
06 Jun 2014 2:33:13pm
Which is why France, not the USA, was barracking for aid to the Syrian rebels. They want that gas! The Russians have used their gas power to coerce Germany into acquiescence. The French, on the other hand, have nothing to offer the Russians, but still need hydrocarbons.
Joe Hill:
06 Jun 2014 10:04:46am
"... it is fair to say that in 75 years' time there won't be any monuments to Australians who participated in the Syrian civil war."
Not if were still as WASP/ WASC as WASP/WASC can be in our heads and hearts but that is a big if.
06 Jun 2014 10:10:48am
Am I the only one who finds it disconcerting to see these persons referred to as "Australians"?
I know that technically that is correct as they hold Australian citizenship, but it always strikes me as incongruous. These people reject everything about Australia and its ways, and often express hatred about the country they use as a safe haven.
It is not just Australia: it can be seen with "Swedes" who have made no attempt to join Swedish society but retain the language and culture of their (or their parents') homeland. England has many "citizens" who have no commitment to the country, as do many other European countries.
I don't have a solution: while such persons retain citizenship there is no other correct way to describe them.
But it does make me wonder if we give away citizenship too easily, to people who say the words but don't mean them. Is that sufficient grounds for removing citizenship.
And is this just "collateral damage" in the search for a happy multicultural society? I am beginning to see the advantages of assimilation, where all work and live together with similar aims and standards.
06 Jun 2014 10:35:03am
If your point is valid, and I'm not saying that it's not, then should we not apply this to "Australians" who have fought with British, US, Israeli, French and even Estonian armed forces? Some of which have had trigger jobs. Or do recognised governments get an exemption? And if so, what is these "Australians" were fighting for the Syrian government? I got no solutions either.
06 Jun 2014 2:03:12pm
The question of fighting for other countries' armies is a vexed one, particularly as many Australians hold dual citizenship. Many of those are subject to conscription as citizens of that other country.
I can see arguments for the abolition of dual citizenship, and for retaining it.
But my point is not specifically about those who fight in the service of other countries. It is those who volunteer to fight against the armed forces of other countries.
Specifically those who show no allegiance to Australia but in fact waste no opportunity to display their contempt for its people and its culture. Should we refer to those people as "Australians"? I doubt very much that they call themselves that, other than when applying for a passport or social benefits.
Lawrence of Bavaria :
06 Jun 2014 10:36:04am
I always wonder about the credibility of those self-appointed (freedom) fighters. They chose to leave their respective countries, fleeing from persecution, oppressive regimes, civil wars, etc., left the fight to their fellow countrymen that stayed on and got a new and safe home in Australia.
Then, here in Australia, they not only get into some biff with other refugees from their country who fled for the same reasons but belong to "the other side", but they also return to their former homeland to fight the war.
Which is not only illegal under Australian law but morally bankrupt, because they know they can return anytime they like to have another cuddle under the safe and warm blanket that Australia provided for them when they came here in the first place.
Other Australians with dual citizenship don't even live here but there. But when the sh*t hits the fan they drape themselves in the Aussie flag again and return, often fanning the flames from abroad.
After WW 2 heaps of immigrants came from war-torn places with scars on their souls and only the clothes on their backs to have a new start here. They got on with their lives and not tried to become ideological guerilla fighters who cowardly attack from the safety of their refuge.
By dragging all of us into their personal fight they show not only disrespect but a total lack of understanding what our concept of a peaceful society actually means.
06 Jun 2014 12:28:25pm
I also have problems with "Australians" going overseas to fight wars. We already have one person in jail fighting his extradition to Croatia for war crimes during the Balkans war. I know of one Australian born young man who went to Croatia to "fight" the good fight all because his parents had filled his head with rubbish about the "old country".
I moved to a remote country town that had an excellent Yugoslav club where everyone went until the Balkans wars broke out and now it stands empty.
The parents and religious are the ones fanning this trouble and they should be deported for bringing the troubles they left behind into Australia.
06 Jun 2014 11:17:34am
'ideological merit'
Includes, NGO Militia industry as global growth model on the rise industry this last 20 years?
All wars are brutal, declared or otherwise.
R Supwood:
06 Jun 2014 11:22:17am
If only more Australians had gone to Spain back then, to join with others who perceived that right wing aggression and superstition was evil and intrusive and must be fought and defeated. If only some had gone on to execute that neurotic, schizophrenic psychopath, Hitler, then followed up with all the dicatators and lords of superstition and doctrine in Europe and elsewhere. Imagine a free and decent world, where the differences were limited to acceptable choices and discussions in shops, offices, staffrooms and pubs. The 20 C saw huge death tolls in despicable causes. Spain is still a historical warning of some relevance to us, but cannot guide us to solving the excruciatingly difficult messes typified by Syria. USA official dullness is no help.
06 Jun 2014 11:29:37am
As Australians and part of the present human race ,we have to realise that our true loyalty is to serve God or Allah, in essence, our Creator.
We all know that He represents Truth & Justice regardless of whatever anyone elses beliefs and idiosyncracies are.
Capitalism, communism, socialism, etc are man made ideologies and hence are definitely prone to have flaws and problems with them.
However the teaching of God is Truth & Justice and there is definitely no errors or problems with them if they are implemented properly by the human race.
Moses brought the ten Commandments and Jesus again upheld the Laws of Moses and Mohammad again upheld both the Laws and the final teachings in the Holy Koran. May God Blessings be upon all of them. Why then are we confused and divided about the one message and discriminating against those that support Truth & Justice, whether they fit into your views or not.
Those that fight against the wrong ways are heroes and they should be recognised regardless of their affiliation .
It is not for me or you to label them as rogues or taboo them out of ignorance or fear. They should be welcomed and supported so that they become at peace with the community .
We should free ourself from others influences, whoever they may be on a government level, intellectual level, or business level, and sell ourself and our mind to the All Mighty Creator in supporting Truth & Justice as was decreed and then and only then, Dr Shanahan, will we be really true & free and give each ones their deserved rights.
As to the previous article about the athiests criticism about the discrepancies of the characteristic of God or Allah's behaviour in the Old Testament, The new Testament & the Holy Quran .
The creator is not bound by a creation's wishes, He is forgiving for those who repent and amend and at the same time He is punishing for those who continue to transgress and rebel -- He is the exemplar of Justice and this requires both forms. The faithful and humble are his servants and the faithless and the arrogant are his opponents . Each will receive their rewards or punishments as is realistically expected in this life and the next. Tell the athiests to come to reality and stop playing with fairies for to every age is term of existence and each will see what he has prepared for themselves when their appointed time comes.
06 Jun 2014 11:47:09am
Exhibit A
06 Jun 2014 12:11:06pm
Hello Mahmoud,
As I regularly advise our Christian posters (your fellow Abrahamic religion worshippers) your god .... whose correct name is Yahweh, is just one of 60 or so demi god children of the gods El & Asherah.
Gods who were invented by the Canannites.
Yes the hebrews had a crack at rewritting the religion so that Yahweh was promoted to "the one true god" when they created monotheism.
But that doesn't alter the fact that Yahweh (or Allah if your prefer) is just a human invention and artifact of history.
I'll take representative secular democracy over religious doctrine based on thousands of years old Canaanite mythology thanks.
Kind regards.
06 Jun 2014 12:47:16pm
My first, true loyalty is to Australia, as a peaceful, tolerant, democratic and secular nation.
I have no loyalty to anyone's God..
You may have sworn your Citizenship as an oath, Mahmoud, calling on Allah to witness your words before all present, but mine was said on my own honour, and is no less binding in law
From this time forward
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect, and
whose laws I will uphold and obey.
The oath says nothing about Divine Truth and Justice, of obedience to Allah, Yaweh or any of the other thousands of Divinities held sacred by Australians. It speaks of democratic beliefs, rights, liberties and law, of Australia and its people
Your desire to worship your choice of Divinity is enshrined as a right, but so is your neighbours, and there is no wrong way, so there is no reason to kill another for their beliefs.
Respect cuts both ways
If you offer me your brand of salvation and I do not take it, it is upon me to face the Creator's wrath in the afterlife. But here we are expect to put our country first. Not our God or our Tribe.
If the Creator will punish transgressors forever in the afterlife, why does he need mere men to kill unbelievers in this life?
And why does any Creator need mere men to defend his servants/believers? In the Old Testament God was quite capable of his own smitings.
06 Jun 2014 1:32:15pm
For the sake of brevity (and for no other reason - although my thoughts on this subject aren't as easily categorised as this statement makes them appear) I will wave through your insistence that there is such a thing as God.
You, on the other hand, are human. As a young human (at a time when brains are malleable and thus easily shaped into certain directions - it's the reason infidels get somewhat uptight about advertising directed at children if you're looking for a contemporary, secular example of the phenomenon) you took on board the teachings of other, older humans and turned them from teachings into what you believe is truth. You will, I'm sure, continue to insist that you arrived at this position without human manipulation - and it's entirely your right to keep believing that for as long as you like. In a sense you are entirely logical to do so - once shaped mentally the way you were it was only natural today's manifestation would appear further down the track.
As a human who is imbued with this "truth" courtesy of where and when you were connected with it (I have no doubt should you have been born elsewhere in different circumstances it's equally as likely you'd be here today telling us that "God's will" can be, and is, found in a text like the Bhagavad Gita), your "truth" is a truth only insofar as you are concerned.
Personally, I query a God who conveys messages of intent through humans - particularly humans obsessed with words over deeds. You bring no authorisation to speak about what God does or doesn't want, what God does or doesn't believe, or any other aspects of what God's "plan" may be for me or anyone else other than simply yourself - at best.
If you choose to believe in God, all well and good - go for it with my blessing. You would do well, however, to accept that this belief applies only to you. As another human in the mix, I don't want or need someone like yourself becoming a self-appointed conduit for disseminating what God's will is. I have a slightly higher regard for the capacity of God to be impressed by that sort of approach. If God is interested enough in my progress I'm sure he will speak to me directly - not by hiring a sub-contractor. And if you think the line may be engaged and the call not getting through, leave a pamphlet in my letterbox and I'll read it later. If it's a pamphlet about the Koran you needn't bother - it may help you to know that out of interest in younger years that was one of several wildly disparate religious texts I forced myself to run my eye over to learn a bit about. I found it as unrewarding as the others to be quite honest.
Go well.
Rattus rattus:
06 Jun 2014 2:26:23pm
"Capitalism, communism, socialism, etc are man made ideologies"
Religion is also a man-made construct.
Original Aussie:
06 Jun 2014 11:41:31am
How the post-civil war Syria will turn out is yet to be determined, but it is fair to say that in 75 years' time there won't be any monuments to Australians who participated in the Syrian civil war.
Response: Thank God for that...
This *war* will go on for years...and all western countries should stay well away - otherwise we will be sucked into a civil war and our future taxpayers will be footing the bill for the rebuilding to this shattered country - and then there is no guarantee it won't all start again.
modus operandi:
06 Jun 2014 11:41:48am
Smashing nations has nothing to do with ideological merit.
NGO Militia is a growth industry in useful idiots. So many brands and so many different sizes on market to choose from. All plays well into war industry profits and related debt masters.
06 Jun 2014 6:23:50pm
There is a major hole in the authors belief that the modern Syrian conflict wont produce anything of 'lasting cultural value to mankind' or on the scale of the impact of the Spanish Civil War. That, if not prejudiced in a Euro-centric way, is quite na?ve.
Case in point: Lebanon. A 15 year long civil war happened to produce a lasting cultural effect in the Arab world, and what trickled to the West happened to be poems, stories and award winning films (Out of Life comes to mind). What happens to affect culture comes down to cultural locality - in the Spanish example: European culture was influenced by a European conflict. To assume that there are wars that contribute to a human story and ones that don't, because of press coverage in our culture or a few notable writers in the English language who witnessed it, falls flat.
Also, Homage to Catalonia wasn't widely published till quite a few years after the war. For Whom the Bell Tolls just after the war, and Guernica's showing at the Paris Exhibit was politically motivated. Who knows what stories will come out of the war in the end, and what artworks are now being painted, drawn or otherwise by Syrian exiles or concerned Westerners?
06 Jun 2014 6:30:51pm
Syria, is very similar to Iraq a,d Libya. A minority group managed to grab hold of power, and kept the majorities with dissenting opinions down via sheer cunning and brute force. An ideal situation? No way. But the world, the real world, is never ideal, unless you believe in what some religious nuts espoused. These nations under the firm grips of the dictators were, well, functioning.
Then we have the prophets of democracy, freedom and human rights agitated for a change of the systems. Somehow they believed that simply apply the template of the West over these nations, those poor oppressed people will be free and there will be songs and dance, rose petals lining the streets. Again, reality usually don't quite run according to the Hollywood plots.
Restless religious nuts saw a chance to redeem themselves for their past demons. By joining in on someone else wars, is a way to answer to God's calling. Besides, they will be richly rewarded if they are "martyred". Incredible, isn't it? Call me a coward. If I see the Grim Ripper within a 100 metres, I will go the other way! But that is what fanaticism is all about. Remember the Kamikaze pilots? I wonder if they are surrounded by an endless supply of virgins, or are they desperately attempting to communicate with the livings that all those promises are, wait for it... bullsh*t.
OK, some would argue they are there to fight for a "good cause". "Good Cause" for a Sunni or a Shiite? Now that is the point. What if the hatred did not stop even after the war in Syria ended, if it ever will? Neighbourhood disputes can turn into a big stink, even deaths.
If they find it necessary to express their loyalty to whatever God they professed to belong, stay there and don't come back, and fight to their heart content ! One never knows how many virgins are waiting breathlessly for their heroes to arrive.
06 Jun 2014 6:33:41pm
Good article. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see Arthur Koestler's "Darkness at Noon" mentioned. A moving and insightful book based partly upon his own experiences as a prisoner during the Spanish war. Unfortunately for all Syrians their country is mostly devastated and millions are now traumatised, destitute refugees. Assad may have the upper hand but there are really no winners.
Have a good one.
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|Roelof Mur
However, in the late 19th century, some barges were having engines installed to help skipper's maintain speed and reliability. Sailing barges would use both engine and sail power, but the Vereeniging, commissioned by Roelof Mur, was one of the first examples of a barge built solely for motor power. It was built in Alphen aan den Rijn under the name Loenen Amsterdam II at one of the two boat yards there, but sadly it is not known which one. I don't have the original meetbrief and things can get confused over time and with changes to documents, so it was either Boot or Pannevis, but I'll never really be sure.
|A copy of the original photo taken of a newly-built
Vereeniging in 1898
The first engine installed in my barge was a Van Renesse paraffin-fueled motor. This served the Mur family until 1921 when a semi-diesel single cylinder hot bulb engine from the Industrie works was installed in its place.
|Single Cylinder hot bulb engine (1921) from the
Motorfabriek Industrie
|A substantial berghout or rubbing rail
So that's about it - the story of my barge. It's not a very exciting history, but the fact that it's still floating in a very authentic state is, I think, pretty special. I still need to have a proper loading mast and derrick made, but that's an expensive undertaking, so it's had to wait. However, it is as original as I can practically keep it and has the honour of being a class A monument with the FONV, the Dutch Federation of old working barges. And finally, I have the honour of being its carer and custodian!


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2018 Generac GP2200i - Model #7117
Stock Image
The GP2200i inverter generator provides outdoor enthusiasts with a portable power solution designed for a variety of open-air festivities. From weekends in the woods to outdoor cookouts and get-togethers, these models provide the stable power you need without disturbing neighbors or surrounding wildlife.
Using TruePower™ Technology, the GP2200i produces the clean power required by a variety of sensitive electronics, tools and appliances. Compact and fully-enclosed, its lightweight design makes transportation easy, and its Economy mode feature also reduces fuel consumption rates and noise emissions to operate quietly for extended periods of time.
Whether you're tailgating for the big game or simply want to enhance your campsite experience without disrupting the environment around you, Generac's GP2200i inverter generator is right for you.
- An affordable solution for recreational applications, the GP2200i is the perfect size for tailgating,camping and power on the go.
- Quiet and Neighbor Friendly: Fully enclosed design dramatically reduces noise levels
- TruePower™ Technology: Provides clean, stable power ideal for sensitive electronics, tools and appliances
- Compact and Lightweight: Makes transportation easy with built-in handle
- Economy Mode: Automatically adjusts engine speeds to save fuel and reduce sound emissions
- Integrated Off/Run/Choke Knob: Simplifies startup procedures
- LED Indicators: Alert you when unit is low on oil, overloaded or ready-to-use
- USB Port: For charging mobile devices
- Parallel Ready: Allows you to connect two GP2200i inverter generators for twice the power
- Low-oil Level Shutdown: Automatically safeguards engine from incurring damage
- Covered Outlets: Provide added protection from the environment
- 50-State/CSA Model Number: 7117
- Running Watts: 1700
- Starting Watts: 2200
- Engine Displacement: 80cc
- Engine Type: OHV
- Starting Method: Manual
- Low Oil Shutdown: Yes
- Fuel Tank: 1.2 Gal.
- Run Time at 50% Load: 7.0 Hours
- Run Time at 25% Load: 10.75 Hours
- Outlets: (1) 120V 20A 5-20R Duplex (1) 12V DC (1) 1.5A USB
- Handle Style: Single, Molded Case
- Product Dimensions (L"xW"xH"): 19.7 x 11.4 x 17.9
- Product Weight (lbs.): 46.6
- Warranty - Residential: 2 Year Limited
- Warranty - Commercial: 1 Year Limited
- Engine Type
- Displacement
- 80cc
- Length
- 19.7 in.
- Width
- 11.4 in.
- Height
- 17.9 in.
- Weight
- 46.6 lb.
- AC Output
- Receptacles
- (1) 120V 20A 5-20R Duplex (1) 12V DC (1) 1.5A USB
- Fuel Tank Capacity
- 1.2 gal.
- Run Time
- At 50% Load: 7.0 Hours; At 25% Load: 10.75 Hours


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Cheryl L'Hirondelle's êkâya-pâhkaci (Don't Freeze Up)
Storytelling is a metaphorical expression that bridges language and cultural barriers. In her performanceêkâya-pâhkaci (don't freeze up), Cheryl L'Hirondelle develops a lexicon using her body, linguistic rhythm, and evocative visual imagery to transmit intrinsic understandings of hospitality, narrative and sexuality.
The performance began with an offering of bread and tea as an invitation for the audience to join L'Hirondelle on the woven blankets in front of her temporary residence, a large white tent located in the Epcor Centre. As spectators gathered on the blankets, she began to engage viewers in conversation but because L'Hirondelle was speaking in Cree, a language in which very few Calgarians are fluent, she was greeted with a wavering 'yes' or an unsure nod. So she began to teach us Cree by pointing at the bread then saying the word in Cree. After that, she went around the circle gesturing towards the Cree syllabics that were neatly written on her hands, wrists, and upper thighs , using them as a means to investigate similar marks on the spectators bodies. When someone would show her their tattoo, L'Hirondelle would write the Cree word for the image on their body with a make-up crayon. Then she entered her tent and stitched the opening shut.
The tent lit up and the raucous but vaguely melodic sound of a car horn bellowed through the PA system. As the shadows showed L'Hirondelle removing her clothing, recorded voices of Cree Elder storytellers were heard over the horns. L'Hirondelle began to chant to the tempo of the story. The silhouette of her gyrating hips danced across the illuminated tent in perfect cadence to the rhythmic chanting that resonated through the black speakers. At moments, the shadow would sharpen, revealing a belt of jingling keys or long tubular shapes that emitted a haunting whir when spun through the air. She looped the sound with an effects pedal, layering the Cree chanting with various sounds derived from instruments and plastic toys. Far from cacophony, the harmonious congregation of sound filled the circular balcony near The One Yellow Rabbit Theatre box office, attracting Motel theatre patrons as well as spectators in passing.
As the elaborate sound collage developed into a solid rhythmic repetition,L'Hirondelle began to push coils of ribbon through several slits that were cut into the front of the tent at head level. Starting from the viewers right side, the dark colored ribbon slipped through the slits then flowed to the ground. After all the ribbon had unfurled L'Hirondelle's voice belted out over the echoing chant in melodic undulation. The orange of her skin glowed against the surface as her palms pushed against the face of the tent, causing the surface to vibrate and pulse.
She opened the tent, unveiling a plethora of brightly colored plastic toys, wires, microphones, and other sound equipment. Dressed in a revealing nude colored leotard with protruding plastic red nipples and a little red leaf shape in the pubic area, L'Hirondelle poked her leg out of the tent and gave it a flirtatious twist. Microphone in hand, she engaged the audience with an interactive chant ("I say 'Shagga' you say 'Nappi'") followed with more flirtatious and sexually charged gestures towards members of the audience.
Cheryl L'Hirondelle's practice and lifestyle incorporates the Cree worldview (nêhiyawin). As a musician and an artist, her way of life is nomadic. Having explored the tent motif with performance in the 90s, L'Hirondelle is revisiting it with further travels and an increased knowledge. "Performance has always been a means to articulate something that does not have a language," said L'Hirondelle. Aesthetic and harmony became the elliptic metaphor that bridged the cultural and language barriers in new media story-telling.
Posted by Jasmine Valentina
Photo credit: Erica Brisson


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In the next instalment of our #FreshSOLE campaign, we caught up with pop punk band As It Is in their hometown of Brighton to chat about all things shoes. We filmed an exclusive acoustic performance with them and sat down with drummer Patrick and bassist Ally to get the lowdown on their journey so far.
ST: For the uninitiated out there, can you sum up As It Is in three words?
A: Happy music/sad lyrics. Wait, that's four words.
P: Nostalgic pop punk.
ST: What's your biggest achievement as a band been so far?
A: Getting through the Warped tour.
P: Finishing our first physical record as a group is probably the thing we're most proud of.
ST: How did the band first get together?
P: Andy and Patty met each other online when they worked on another project, then Ben and Patty met at university and I answered an ad online to join the group.
A: I didn't come along until later, I also got in touch with the guys online, but knew Andy from university too.
ST: Was it very natural, or did you have to work at it?
P: I don't think any of us expected the band to be such a long-term thing, so at the time, it was just five mates playing music together, it was very natural. It was easy.
ST: Do you find it easy writing together too?
P: Yeah definitely. We make an effort to do it together, it's the only way we write really.
A: It's much harder though now we're on the road to make the time to do it.
P: We have a policy within the band, that no song will be completed or finalised before all five of us give it the thumbs up.
ST: You released your debut album earlier this year, how has the reception been to that?
P: It's been amazing.
A: Yeah, we got a status update the other day and we'd sold something like 15-17 thousand copies. Every time we do a tour, the crowds get bigger and more enthusiastic, so that's great. It's all just snowballing at the minute.
ST: Did it feel very different to recording an EP?
P: Just recording the new album the way we did, we went over to America and recorded it properly with experienced producers, rather than in our mate's attic. The whole experience was great.
A: It was done on a much bigger scale. Your playing was also really under the microscope, so by the end of recording the album, we came out of it the other side as better musicians I think.
ST: Who would you say are your biggest musical influences?
A: We have quite a diverse taste of music as a band. I think my big musical influences growing up were Red Hot Chili Peppers and Rage Against The Machine. I really like hip hop and soul music too.
P: I think in terms of a band, a lot of the old drive through records influenced us a lot, people like The Starting Line,New Found Glory and Taking Back Sunday. The sort of stuff that was relevant when we were first discovering music.
ST: You mentioned that you just finished the Vans Warped tour, how was that?
P: It was amazingly tough. It was genuine hard work and was hard not to burn the candle at both ends. It's like musical summer camp!
A: It was some of the biggest crowds we've ever played to as well, which was great.
ST: What's been your favourite gig to play so far?
A: It's got to be Eindhoven – funnily enough, our first ever sold out show was there.
P: Every time we go back there, we're guaranteed such a good crowd. I couldn't tell you what it is about Holland, but it's just such a good atmosphere and the fans are great.
ST: How do you find touring the US? Has it been a big change to playing in the UK?
P: Yes, on so many different levels. Firstly, the distances are so much greater, there is so much more travelling involved. Food over there is different too.
A: Yeah, you can't cook anything, so logistically it's difficult. It's always just cheaper and easier to get Taco Bell. Also the kids in America seem to travel a lot further to see bands. Some of the guys we met on the Warped tour had been to two or three different dates and travelled around with their parents.
P: We've had great hospitality there too, people are so welcoming. We stayed in some amazing places, where people have been kind enough to open their houses to us, it certainly gives you perspective.
ST: What's the best and worst thing about being on tour?
A: The worst thing is probably not getting to see as much of our friends and family as we'd like. That's definitely hard.
P: There's a lack of stability, living out of a bag or suitcase. But in the same way, getting to travel is also one of the best things about it too. It's a catch 22.
A: It's always about the feeling you have on stage when you're playing too. That makes it all worthwhile.
ST: Do you have an all time favourite shoe?
P: This is a tough question! I'm a big fan of Nike Safaris.
A: I like a classic black Vans trainer. I also really like the Nike Skateboarding range. I like Janoskis and P-Rods at the moment. They were icons to me growing up.
P: I really like the Nike Rifts. I think they were for lads in Ibiza, but I really liked them! Reebok Classics too, I hear they're making a comeback!
ST: What about shoe brands?
P: Obviously Vans and Nike.
A: Etnies too. New Balance of course.
ST: Trainers with socks?
Both: With.
ST: Laces tied or tucked in?
Both: Tied.
ST: Crisp white or well worn?
Both: Well worn.
A: A bit of character.
ST: Summer flip flops or all-year-round trainers?
A: All year round trainers, or just bare feet.
P: No, I'll wear flip flops on holiday. I've got some Havaianas!
ST: Lace up or slip on?
Both: Lace up.
ST: Patterned or plain?
P: Patterned.
A: Plain, as a general rule.
ST: Shoes off in the house?
Both: Yes. It's been drilled into us!
P: Unless I'm not wearing socks. Then it's nicer for everyone for me to keep my trainers on!
Thanks to Ally and Patrick, and make sure you catch our As It Is videos and posts on our social channels for behind-the-scenes access and that exclusive acoustic video.