text:
And They Still Don't Get It
Clive Crook of the Atlantic professes not to understand why the "Restoring Honor" rally at the Washington Mall was so heavily attended. How could so many people want to listen to the doltish Glenn Beck? There must be something wrong with America.
Doubtless it marks me out as a member of the uncomprehending godless elite, but I find the popularity of Glenn Beck very hard to understand. … He strikes me as a huckster drunk on his own pitch, a true believer in his own cult, ready to hurtle off the rails at any moment — and all of this seems obvious.
But the cause of Crook's perplexity is equally obvious. He's starting off at the wrong end of the argument. While Glenn Beck may have genuine fans, the attendance at the "Restoring Honor" rally wasn't driven by people running to Beck so much as propelled by people running away from "the uncomprehending godless elite." If Brook wants to understand why so many, he should look in the mirror and ask, "why so few?"
The Washington elite sees everything through its particular prism. Nancy Pelosi, for example, called for an investigation into whoever was "ginning up" opposition to the Ground Zero mosque because in her universe, no grass grows unless it is astroturf. Similarly, Crook cannot imagine such crowds at the Mall as drawn by anything other than mass hysteria and ignorance. It may never occur to him to recall the words, "therefore send not know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."
The AP article by Philip Elliott is closer to the mark. He interprets the massive crowd as a sign of widespread voter dissatisfaction with Washington. Elliott is essentially correct. He understands that Beck is riding the wave, but Beck is not the wave. Yet that wave is real and the tsunami is headed straight for DC.
That's not to say that the rally organizers did not carefully craft their tactics to achieve the maximum destruction. Nile Gardiner of the Telegraph noted that the rally itself was calculated to show the weakness of the traditional media. "The large numbers who turned out defied an intensely hostile and negative media campaign that attacked the decision to hold the event on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King's 'I Have a Dream Speech' as a cynical political gimmick." It was hardly a gimmick. It was downright provocation; a dare and double dare. The press bet that if they ignored and pooh-poohed it, the "Restore Honor" rally would dry up and blow away. They bet wrong.
The "Restore Honor" rally was aimed at taking back the symbols of the left, who over the last decades have appropriated certain locations as their own. The Washington Post reported that "counter-protester Ben Thielen caused a stir with a sign that said, 'It's because of the 1st Amendment that Glenn Beck can spew his filth on the steps.'" Thielen, identified as a "District public-policy worker," is probably incensed that so many ignoramuses should befoul what he considers sacred political ground. But he should have realized he was watching the descent of people who paid Washington's salaries and underwrote the very paving of the road on which he stood. The stockholders had come to Washington to voice their grievances about that most doltish of things: money. That Thielsen considered the rally led by "filth" is the less literate version of Clive Crook's view, but essentially the same. It amounts to outrage at how these know-nothings should dare tell them what to do with their bucks. Crook pulls no punches.
As I say, I find Beck a tragi-comic figure. And as an atheist (I didn't deny being godless) I do not thrill when a speaker says, "America today begins to turn back to God" … Beck … praised King effusively as an American hero and sounded as though he meant it. Perhaps he was insincere; even so, an odd thing to say if you are addressing a quarter of a million bigots.
A quarter million bigots. Yes, make no mistake about it. Not everyone came to hear Beck or even Palin. Perhaps a few did. But most everybody came because they wanted to give people who — like one genius, atheist editor of the Atlantic — believe they have the Marx-given right to judge 250,000 people as bigots, a poke in the eye. What is truly astounding is that Crook doesn't get it. The real motto of the Hope and Change party should be: "we are the people they've been running from."
[I've re-read the piece yet again, and believe I've misread Crook's intent by a large margin. Taken as a whole it is half sympathetic to the Restore Honor Rally, a fact which I wholly and inexcusably missed. Thus, while the point that Beck is incidental to rally has not changed, my treatment of Mr. Crook's essay did correctly reflect, as a I now believe, his true intent. I really ought to read better.]
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167 Comments, 167 Threads
It's Clive Crook, not Brook.August 29, 2010 - 4:39 am Link to this Comment
2. wretchard
Yes thanks, I've corrected.August 29, 2010 - 4:45 am Link to this Comment
3. James
I'm still the optimist on this site – can't help it. But it seems to me that Obama is the best thing to happen to the country since Jimmy Carter.
The left was able to sell the notion that "We are reasonable decent people who just won't act real stupid like W".
Obama tells the truth of who they really are.
The right couldn't convince the public with $1 Billion in advertising who the left really is. Everyone is really pessimistic of the American people. But I still think the lesson of "who the left is and what they stand for" won't soon be forgotten.
You can thank Obama for that – assuming the Republic survives until 2012. I'm the optimist, so I think it will.August 29, 2010 - 5:20 am Link to this Comment
4. Don51
And as an atheist (I didn't deny being godless) I do not thrill when a speaker says, "America today begins to turn back to God"
Thou shall covet thy neighbors wealth
Thou shall steal thy neighbors wealth
Thou shall bear false witness
..do not seem to be a solid basis to build a society that is expected to last much more than one or two generations of rapacious exploitation. One may not believe in a personal god, but the words within the book have value and worth in and of themselves and have sustained a large and long civilization imperfect as it may be while governments and nations have risen and fallen.August 29, 2010 - 5:25 am Link to this Comment
5. geoffgo
Is that "dissent" or "descent"?August 29, 2010 - 5:32 am Link to this Comment
6. happyacres
I had a slightly different reading of Crook and heard a little humility that wasn't ironic.
Some comments at the Atlantic suggest the narrative is cracking.August 29, 2010 - 5:33 am Link to this Comment
7. wretchard
It is "descent" as in 'mass arrival'.August 29, 2010 - 5:36 am Link to this Comment
8. Thrasymachus
I was at a hotel in the Virginia suburbs of DC on Friday night, and as I waited for my taxi in the morning a big group, a few with "Restoring Honor" T-shirts was waiting to take the shuttle to the Metro station and go to the Beck rally. It didn't much register on me. A few years ago I might have gone to it; now I just don't care. This wave you speak of is now passing the point of energetic civic engagement; it rolls inevitably toward anger and disillusionment.
The MLK symbology is interesting. The left works by having a dual meaning to its message, one the insiders understand and what the masses are supposed to understand. The left can't say they didn't have their chance with these people- most probably went to public schools and had years of indoctrination in the message of the New Deal system, and accept it completely. These people fully accept MLK's outer message of "equal rights." But MLK's inner message, which the elite fully understands and implements, was for an America managed by progressives, with power taken away from the masses, with many special privileges for blacks as supporters of this regime.
The question about Crook is, does he really not understand, or is he pretending to not understand as a matter of leftist rhetoric? I suppose it's some of both. He really does live in an echo chamber, where conflicting ideas are dismissed out of hand and the rule of experts is a given. However he's perfectly capable of understanding the simple objections of the opposition, which are just that the stratospheric levels of spending are going to cause big problems shortly, and that the money is going to the connected. He could respond to this, but leftists just don't do that. They ignore or demonize their opponents, because debating takes up time in the conversation needed for the endless repetition of their message, which is how they control peoples' mental space.
I saw another group at the hotel as well, black people wearing bright red T-shirts that demanded "Free Dr. Malachi York!" My curiosity was piqued, so I googled him, and it turns out he is an Islamic cult leader doing 135 years for over a hundred counts of child molestation. I'm reminded of "Free Hat!" on "South Park". You can't make this stuff up hardly.
So which group is Clive Crook more sympathetic to? That's an easy guess.August 29, 2010 - 5:50 am Link to this Comment
9. maz2
Notice the play/deploy of the buzzword "narrative": "the hope narrative".
Progressive asks: Where is the agenda?
In Canada, not far from D.C.'s Mall:
"Progressive-minded Canadians are bewildered."
The Socialist/Communist Hope Narrative.
"progressives" return to the past.
Progressive/left-liberals are regressive.
Fear* and Hope*: A progressive, aka left-liberal call for an ideology of socialism/communism from the TORedStar.
"Progressive-minded Canadians are bewildered."
>>> "But no political party — left, right, centrist or green — is articulating the hope narrative and fleshing out the corresponding agenda to support it."
"Obama's political manifesto, The Audacity of Hope, released two years prior to his presidential run, defined his winning election narrative."
>>> Whittaker Chambers discovered: Hope = Communism.
>>> The Communist Party "had one ultimate appeal. In place of desperation, it set the word: hope. If it was the outrage, it was also the hope of the world. In the 20th century, it seemed impossible to have hope on any other terms." (Witness)
"The audacity of fear
From crime to refugees to foreign policy, Harper's Conservatives play on Canadians' fears"
""But no political party — left, right, centrist or green — is articulating the hope narrative and fleshing out the corresponding agenda to support it."
Hope* and Fear*:
Charles Lamb, aka Elia.
"Hope* is charming, lively, blue-eyed wench, & I am always glad of her company, but could dispense with the visitor she brings with her, her younger sister, fear*, a white liver'd-lilly-cheeked, bashful palpitating, awkward hussey that hangs like a green girl at her sister's apron strings & will go with her whithersoever she goes."
(Letters of Charles and Mary Anne Lamb)
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/014750.htmlAugust 29, 2010 - 5:52 am Link to this Comment
10. rickl
6. happyacres
Yes. Check out the last three paragraphs:
The truth is, it was an enormously friendly, good-natured event. There were families with children everywhere, all smiles. "The event had the feeling of a large church picnic," said the NYT. The most political statement was on the T-shirts that said, "I can see November from my house."
AP's report began:
Conservative commentator Glenn Beck and tea party champion Sarah Palin appealed Saturday to a vast, predominantly white crowd on the National Mall to help restore traditional American values and honor Martin Luther King's message.
This afternoon, walking back to my home in predominantly white North-West DC, I paused for a bite to eat in the predominantly white Dupont Circle area, in a cafe whose clientele was predominantly white. There, I did see something mean. A family wearing "Restoring Honor" T-shirts walked by outside, and a little girl tripped over and hurt herself. The couple at the next table laughed.August 29, 2010 - 5:54 am Link to this Comment
11. Gordon
To paraphrase Pauline Kael: "Why, I don't know anyone who went to that thing!"August 29, 2010 - 5:56 am Link to this Comment
12. Stephen
W the two quotes don't do justice to the Atlantic piece. It was thoughtful considering the source, and Crook showed unexpected humility.
13. Tony
I attended both the immense 9/12 Taxpayer's March on D.C. last year and yesterday's rally, and I can testify that these are regular Americans who have worked their whole lives, have never been "protesters" but who universally feel that we need to stand up for America.
Crooks argument (hysterical hissy fit) is the way the Left argues, by insult and revulsion, since they have no logical argument that would persuade people of common sense and truly classic Liberal values (personal liberty and personal responsibility). We saw this in the viral email before the election that stated "the ONLY reason not to vote for Obama is racism" and then the slur of "tea-bagger" (even Obama is quoted using it) to describe the massive, spontaneous Tea Party movement, and all the rest. Good people are not harmed or persuaded by insult, we know who we are.
I posted this last night on the other thread, after getting home from this beautifully uplifting communion with my fellow common man.
WRT controlling the narrative, a process the Old Gray Lady will be tolerably familiar with and Clive Crooks wished he could do, a vibrant example is yesterday's immense gathering around the Reflecting Pool at the foot of the Lincoln Memorial. MSMinimization of crowd size will be difficult, as there was a news chopper orbiting, Drudge already has the photo, it was a regular Sermon on the Mount / Woodstock magnitude crowd.
Beyond the mean liberal "thought leadership" pathetic flailing at the numbers, the former Controllers of the Narrative portray this spiritual, calm, dedicated gathering as full-bore nooses and cross-burnin' festival for the NASCAR retards.
Beck venerated each hero, temple by temple, Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Martin, and then World War II, Vietnam and Korea memorials. Palin came on as "the mother of a combat veteran" to introduce Marcus Luttrell and other combat wounded heroes. People recited the Pledge, sang the Anthem, bowed their heads in prayers, it was like being in church for three hours with the crowd silent, attentive, respectful.
There were kids with Moms and Dads, plenty of boomers – first guy I bumped into who was bringing his 7 year old son, agreed it was like seeing the Dead at Watkins Glen in '73 with 600K dear friends, and surprisingly lots of twenty-somethings of all styles. People were sweet to each other, I passed a group of leather-jacket vets, and from the other direction a Mom led her young son to them saying "Here they are, these are the Vietnam Vets" as she and her son following shook each of their hands, Mom saying "Thank you for your service."
We used to call it Peace, Love and Happiness. Today was old-school – Faith, Hope and Charity.
It was BEAUTIFUL, man!
Even though, just like at Watkins Glen, I had to watch the show from way out behind Don's Johns. Sound was good. The crowd's the main thing anyway, my fellow Americans.
As some might say to the Old Gray Lady and little Clive: "Control this!"
For the record, there was no mention of Tea Party, Democrats, Republicans, Obama, the upcoming elections. This was an old-fashioned three hour revival meeting.
14. wretchard
This wave you speak of is now passing the point of energetic civic engagement; it rolls inevitably toward anger and disillusionment.
I too have lost my enthusiasm — for permanent solutions and perfect Earths — but I have not yet lost the conviction that it is necessary to take out the trash and drag yourself out of bed each day to earn a buck. I think most people who came to the rally would rather be sailing or having a barbecue. What brought them there, reluctantly I'd wager in some cases, is that terrible realization that unless they did nobody else would.
Last Saturday I watched all those ex-Muslims rally near the Cenoptaph in Sydney. Some were young and idealistic; others were older and unused to the cynical ways of politics. And I realized that it was this very quality of hope; this willingness not to give up on taking out the trash, that keeps this world turning. It runs on those who haven't given up on it. And it shamed me to some extent, even though by rights I should "know better". There are some things we ought never to laugh at. And so I lent a hand.August 29, 2010 - 6:01 am Link to this Comment
15. wretchard
I reread the piece too and thought that if anything, I was going too easy on it. The closing paragraph of Crook's piece reads:
This afternoon, walking back to my home in predominantly white North-West DC, I paused for a bite to eat in the predominantly white Dupont Circle area, in a cafe whose clientele was predominantly white. There, I did see something mean. A family wearing "Restoring Honor" T-shirts walked by outside, and a little girl tripped over and hurt herself. The couple at the next table laughed.
Having said that, I'm willing to admit the possibility that it is tongue in cheek without my being aware of it. And one commenter actually wonders whether that closing paragraph wasn't a joke. But ambiguity is just that: ambiguous. Let's just say that if he did mean what on the surface he appears to say, then I suppose I should on the surface take umbrage at his superficial meaning.August 29, 2010 - 6:10 am Link to this Comment
16. Thrasymachus
Read the comments at Crook; you can see that most of the left is not very smart, just people regurgitating the leftist propaganda they swallowed in 16 or more years of school.August 29, 2010 - 6:15 am Link to this Comment
17. E Hines
The difference between the NLMSM and the Democrats in government is solely that one got elected and the other is self-appointed. They both see themselves as our Patricians and us as plebes to be led and instructed and controlled. They are oblivious (to Pelosi, we're just astro-turfers who carry swastikas and who gin up objections just for drill; to Reid, we're just slavers for objecting to the One True Way of health care deform; to Obama and his cabinet, we're threats to the government because we disagree; to various members of the Black Congressional Caucus, we're racists because we disagree with Obama), and so they ignore us, refusing even to acknowledge that we're their bosses, and pass health care deform over our objections, pass serial bailouts over our objections; and rule by fiat rather than democracy, implementing cap and trade and carbon controls through the EPA, granting amnesty to illegals through cabinet secretary edict, condone voter fraud and intimidation through Attorney General fiat. And if only us ignorant plebes just had all the facts, we'd agree with their august personages. But they know all the facts, so have no need of actual data, and feel free to tell us what to do and to ignore our instructions.
But for all their obliviousness of the reasons underlying our objections, they are not completely oblivious. They know exactly what they are doing, and they are doing it anyway. Their bet is that if they get their agenda rammed through while the getting is good, it'll stick. Yes, they'll take election hits–big ones, perhaps–for an election or two–but then they'll be back as political power ebbs and flows from one party to the other, and the outcomes of their agenda passings will still be in place when they return.
We have to, first, actually succeed in November, and not just have all of this be so much Obamatalk–idle chit-chat with no follow through–and then we have to sustain and continue to succeed in subsequent election cycles, so we can throw the rascals out with some permanence, undo the damage done by them these last few years, and set about restoring our nation to its erstwhile freedoms and greatness.
Eric HinesAugust 29, 2010 - 6:22 am Link to this Comment
18. bogie wheel
Tony @ 13 –
I may have passed you in the crowd yesterday. Or not. The attendance was so massive and the crowd so packed you couldn't just meander through the parts nearer the stage. (Which was pretty much anything from the Lincoln Memorial to the WWII Monument.)
I took a bus, one of 16 from my area, took the Metro to Foggy Bottom and then 23rd St. to the LM. I had just crossed into the park area around the LM when the National Anthem played (c. 10AM). Beck was introduced right after that. I kept making sorties into the crowd from the Constitutional Ave side in an attempt to find a good angle on both the stage and the crowd, but no dice. Too many people, too packed. I ended up walking all the way to the Washington Monument before there was open grass & a view of the LM.
Once I was at the Washington Monument I figured I might as well go to the top and get some photos and videos of the crowd from there, so that's what I did. Three words: massive, massive, and MASSIVE. I'm sure you've all seen the overhead AP photo (also looks like it was taken from the Washington Monument). The photo is pretty accurate but the framing does not go very far past 17th St, between the WWII Memorial and the lawn for the Washington Monument, and there were a lot of people in the latter area.
At the WWII Monument you could hear everything but unless you had a high vantage point you couldn't see. Audio levels by the WM lawn began to fall off, and by the time you were at the WM itself you could catch maybe every third or fourth word, although if you were familiar with the sound of someone's voice you could tell who was speaking. (Sarah Palin has an unmistakable voice. Kind of high-pitched and nasal with that flat middle-America dialect, which is to say, a voice not as purty as her face, but how she sounds is not nearly as important as what she says, and in the latter department she's egg-celent most of the time.)
The result was that I never got near the stage (although I was there until 1:30/2:00) and I missed about 90% of what was going on, onstage. No biggie. Like Tony said, the crowd was the main thing for me, and I was more interested in getting video and photos of them than the stage. I figured I could catch the stage events online later.
But I did get this flash of Monty Python's "Life of Brian." Remember the scene where a small group of people are standing wayyyyyy off to the edge of the crowd listening to the Sermon on the Mount … and they are so distant they are getting only a garbled version of what Jesus is saying? "Blessed are the cheesemakers."
THAT was about my distance from the stage yesterday.
BTW even though the weather was pretty moderate for D.C. in late August, the heat got pretty brutal pretty quickly. Several people had to be treated by on-scene paramedics for heat stroke, and I heard ambulances evaccing people at least 4 times. And the Metro was a zoo. Considering the crowds, the heat, the standing around & waiting, the inability to get close to see & hear things, and the general hassle of hiking long distances to get from A to B, there was remarkable good-naturedness and civility from everyone. I saw not ONE incident, not a single one, of somebody blowing their stack with another attendee, or with their own kid for that matter.
It was a beautiful demonstration of love for this country. A *LOT* of people care, and care very, very deeply, about the fate of this nation. Tons and tons of veterans of all ages there yesterday, BTW. Saw at least one guy in an Oathkeeper tee.
I suppose someone could make a good argument that the worst thing about America is Americans … but what I saw yesterday convinced me, yet again, that the opposite is most definitely true because I have seen it with my own eyes: the best thing about America is Americans.
Thank you, fellow patriots, who were there yesterday in person and in spirit.August 29, 2010 - 6:42 am Link to this Comment
19. cfbleachers
I'm afraid we will be handing down a shell of what we have been given. Once, the vast majority of citizens of this land would bust their vest buttons, swelling up with pride in the accomplishments of this land of ours, would stand shoulder to shoulder in building her, keeping her safe, and would defend her honor against all comers.
Today, the entirety of our mass communication empire is entrenched against her. They slander her at every turn. They tear at the flesh of her virtue. They espouse the propaganda of her sworn enemies. And, against our countrymen who try to stand shoulder to shoulder in her defense, they spout filthy lies, hurl invective and spray venom, call them racist, xenophobic, stupid, lacking in nuance, and dream of throwing them through a plate glass window.
Crook is a thief of our honor. How dare he call people he does not know…bigots? On what grounds?
These cretins have stolen our ability to obtain facts about virtually every key topic necessary to self-govern this land of ours. They say we cling bitterly to religion and the Constitution. They have created a distorted caricature of who we are as a people and what we are as a nation.
The fact that he is godless, does not mean that those whose lives are faith-based are somehow "less" than he…if so, in what way? He deigns to spew venom on folks who acted in a respectful manner, recited the pledge, sang the National Anthem…why? Because this is the "wrong" kind of patriotism?
Maybe, just maybe…the left has their panties in a bunch because we honored men and women in the military…and there is always that bubbling hatred and rage beneath the surface. Or was it the religious undertones, which also bubbles up the bile of any good venom spewing leftist? If you want to get them in full froth…COMBINE a little piety with a little thanks to the troops. Just don't stand near any plate glass windows…or stained glass windows for that matter.
What they have infused instead, is a self-loathing element into our national conscience, replacing healthy self-reflection with kneejerk blame and vacuous apology for our very existence.
They have crushed the voice of faith based folks, essentially silencing them out of existence within their communication empire and from that lofty tower…they question morals from the perch of High Hedonism in the morning, in the afternoon they issue smug and pedantic homilies about tolerance of repressive 4th Century belief systems that are antithetical to all they claim to stand for and against, and by evening they spit on the flag and grind their heels on the notion of truth and the American way, all the while trumpeting how they have no use for God,…He being beneath their self-congratulatory perfection. They are the Messiah THEY have been waiting for, after all.
Who are these people and why do they have such influence over our daily lives? Who let them choose the narrative of our nation and why have we adopted their lexicon?
They are not "mainstream", not representative of mainstream thought, morals, ethics, or of virtually anything American in nature or belief.
They are not "liberal", far from it. They are intolerant, abusive, narrow-minded and closed off from divergent points of view. They call people "bigots" with impunity…people they don't know. Does anyone else see the irony in that?
They are not "progressive". They are stuck in a decade, four or five decades removed and incapable of recognizing, much less adapting to…the changes in modern society.
And worse, they not only do not believe in American exceptionalism, they don't believe in American rugged individualism, they don't believe in American liberty, American freedoms, American patriotism, American pride, or the basic goodness of the American people.
Not only have they stolen our mass communication system and soiled our information stream, they plot to keep facts from us. And, they "install" through distortion and deception the candidates who adhere to their treachery and treason. Our own government, currently in place…calls those who advocate for small government…"teabaggers", a sexual slur befitting a delinquent adolescent mindset.
They call 70% of the nation "Islamophobes" because their instinct to stand shoulder to shoulder against a mosque that has all the earmarks of being a shrine to the mass murder of our countrymen, in a declared war against us. NOBODY is saying that any one religion may not worship in friendship and in peace in this land. Yet, the Ft. Hood massacre, the Christmas day bomber, the attempt at Times Square…these were not raging Presbyterians. The jihad is not being advanced by Methodists.
Is self-preservation bigotry? Since when? Is love of country, jingoism? Since when? Is belief in God, imbecility? Since when?
NO, they don't get it. They don't want to get it. They want you to lose it instead.August 29, 2010 - 6:45 am Link to this Comment
20. Martin Owens
Americans are not bigoted.
But the Anti-Americans damn sure are.August 29, 2010 - 6:51 am Link to this Comment
21. wws
I think you all are misreading the intent of the last paragraph completely, because to me it sheds a completely different light on Crook's entire article.
The people walking with the little girl were coming from the rally. The people inside the cafe, the one who laughed at the hurt little girl, were the local white DC residents who regarded the attendees of the rally with contempt.
Beck's people were happy, courteous, and respectful. The inside-the-beltway residents who despise Beck are casually mean and vicious, even to innocent children.
that's quite a comparison for Crook to make, and underlines what I think is an attempt by Crook to give a very sympathetic view to this rally. Being a liberal atheist, of course, he can only go so far, but I do believe he's trying.
I went to a Beck event a few months back, just to see what he was about. People who are church-goers shouldn't be surprised, he's basically just a long winded itinerant preacher, better than most. I've sat through an endless number of sermons that were far less entertaining than his are. (And yes, he doesn't give talks, he preaches sermons) This is probably much stronger in the American Protestant tradition than any other – think of the country church tradition examined by Robert Duvall in "The Apostle." (An excellent movie, btw, extremely true to life as I can say by having been to many of those places and known many of the people like that.)
I know enough history that I could catch a few things that Beck got wrong in his entertaining pseudo-history, but even those didn't bother me so much. It was like hearing a really enthusiastic high school sophomore who had just discovered history was fascinating and who wanted his enthusiasm to rub off on anyone – so what if a few of his ideas are cracked? His heart's in the right place, and I think that's what those going to listen to him feel.
My overall impression of Beck – and I want to make sure that no one thinks I am being pejorative here, because this is a term rooted deeply in American religious culture and history – Glenn Beck sees himself as an Apostle, just as Robert Duvall's character did, and that is very much in the American Tradition and in fact was extremely common throughout the 19th century. Whether consciously or unconsciously, he's a throwback type, and his delivery works because that has always been a time honored method of moving the public. (Amazing that we modern types seem to have forgotten how effective it has always been)
Billy Graham was another such Apostle, although his widespread acceptance came because he was careful to always stay in the mainstream and avoid political issues as much as possible. He came out of the Baptist movement, of course – Beck, coming out of the Mormon tradition has adopted the mannerisms of the more wild eyed, fire breathing folk preachers that we have had throughout our history. BUT – those guys always found an audience because they always had a point, and we may have ignored that message for so long that it's time for it to make a big comeback.
22. Papa Ray
Good Morning.
As W wrote" "A quarter million bigots. Yes, make no mistake about it. Not everyone came to hear Beck or even Palin. Perhaps a few did. But most everybody came because they wanted to give people who, like one genius, atheist editor of the Atlantic that believes he has the Marx-given right to judge 250,000 people as bigots, a poke in the eye."
Yes all that is true in a valid sense, but I believe the real reason thousands traveled to DC and attended the rally is because they are finally standing up for themselves, their families, their Republic. Finally standing up and getting on the line because they know in their hearts that America has strayed far from the path that our Founding Fathers and their ancestors designed and wanted for America.
They were standing up and speaking out to America's Warriors, all of them but particularly to the families of those who returned on their shields. Letting them know of our love for all of them, letting them know we will never forget and that we will extend our hand to help them.
They also were standing up and speaking out to and for their God. Reaffirming their beliefs and their commitment to him and his teachings. Knowing how America has been ravished and raped by the unbelieving, liberal left for way over a half century, slowly changed into something that America never was and would never want to be.
And that we will not allow her to be.
They are acknowledging [as I have] that the error and mistake has been ours as Americans. We have failed our forefathers and allowed our country to be taken away from us. We have lost sight of what makes us different and great. Our Faith not only in our Republic and ourselves, but in God and all of his greatness.
That most of us have not taught our children of all of this over the years will be to our everlasting shame.
We must fix that. We must restore honor and faith not only to our Republic but to our children and yes… ourselves.
I finally found the C Span video of "Restoring Honor" rally for those of you who would like to watch and listen.
Gotta go to Church, We are late late…
Take Care Take charge, get on the line
Papa Ray
23. Stephen
My take on the final paragraph is different. Crook was criticizing people from his own neighborhood. People like him. White folks. For laughing at the misfortune of a child from the departing Restoring Honor crowd.
Anybody else read it that way?August 29, 2010 - 7:11 am Link to this Comment
24. rickl
21. wws
23. Stephen
Yes, that's exactly how I read it.
25. Larry Sheldon
I'll have to come back and read the whole article before I can answer that. Which is to say: Maybe.
26. Larry Sheldon
I was dealing with a "Furosimide Moment" (interesting…..speel chooker suggests "Neurosis" for "Furosimide") when I wrote this, now I am able to focus on the article.
Which is, I understand is from The Atlantic, which (last I checked some months ago) still pays Andi Sullivan, which makes everything else published there high suspect.
But I committed to reading the article, so I will next pass (I've just started running my list of must-read-daily-blogs).August 29, 2010 - 7:26 am Link to this Comment
27. Charles
In the business of crowd counting and media reporting I recall mentioning to some one yesterday that back in the 60′s the pro viet nam war rallies were often bigger than than the anti viet nam war rallies. However, the pro viet nam war rallies got no media coverage at all except for brief notes in newspapers saying that they had occurred.
Whereas +-400,000 attended the restoring honor rally as few as a several hundred attended Al Sharpton's event…yet
Yesterday Fox, CNN and MSNBCMall led segments with the larger "Restoring Honor" rally, which took place at the Lincoln Memorial, and scrupulously followed up with shots from the overlapping "Reclaim the Dream" civil rights rally organized by the Rev. Al Sharpton's National Action Network.August 29, 2010 - 7:27 am Link to this Comment
28. Cetera
I couldn't be there yesterday, so I bribed my sister to go in my stead. She just lives across the river in Arlington, and this was definitely not the type of thing she enjoys, but she went. She took a bunch of pics for me, and I got a little bit of a "live-blogging" update from her from time to time:
The metro it we bad as I knew it would be…not even there yet…Oh it is…just so many people…
there are a ton of people here. Idk how many exactly but it us getting close to the washington memorial…prob a mil…managed to get decently close…don't think I'm going to try and get much closer…I'm in the shade and have a good angle on a screen. I'm close enough to have seen him walk out on stage. The atmosphere is exited…happy energetic…but considerate. Took some vid but ran out of room…
I've got pictures from her if anyone is interested. I can get them uploaded somewhere and share links. She was very impressed with Marcus Luttrel and his demeanor on-stage. She's a sucker for military guys.
From talking to her later, I got a different take on things than most people I've heard comment. The impression I got from her was that people were pretty mellow and kind. They were excited to be there, but didn't seem to think this was an end to anything, or that this would lead to a utopian turnaround. Rather, this was a statement of yes, we're here, this doesn't necessarily change anything, but we're never going to go away again. It wasn't a show of strength to D.C. from middle America, it was a show of solidarity with each other and a recognition of the long struggle ahead.
Of course, my sister would probably disagree with my take on her insights, but that's OK too.August 29, 2010 - 7:40 am Link to this Comment
29. awake
I think Palin has members of both parties scared after yesterday.
I know it was stated as not being a political rally, but it was definitely a political statement – and cannot be ignored as that – or at least should not be in such a way.
In my mind, there was no need to say anything – it simply was a show of force. and in some subtle way I think Palin holds the trigger.
30. Kinuachdrach
Thrasymachus @ 8: "A few years ago I might have gone to it; now I just don't care."
As classical composers knew, we can't maintain a continuous tempo through the whole performance. That "don't care" feeling will pass.
Remember these events are not happening in a closed Washington DC environment. There is a whole big world outside which will — absolutely & unequivocally — impinge upon these internal US debates.
When the outside world decides that paper US dollars are no longer worth taking in exchange for its manufactured goods; when the Iranians decide they have enough enriched uranium; when the Chinese decide that 'The time is Now!' — you will care again, T.
31. Larry Sheldon
"I know enough history that I could catch a few things that Beck got wrong in his entertaining pseudo-history,…"
Sounds like a cheap shot–one of the more polite examples of the genre, but a cheap shot none the less.
I am old enough tom have gone through the public school system when there were still vestiges of attempts at factual teaching, and I and a daughter have an avid interest in history, and it seems to me that he teaches what is written, or what was said. How does that earn the odd label "pseudo-history"? (I am not even sure that I know what that might mean–"pseudo-history" in the context of relating what some body has actually said.)August 29, 2010 - 7:49 am Link to this Comment
32. Tony
Bogie @ 18 – I hope you find a place to post your pics and video from the top of the monument, we would all love to see it.
We got there at 9, and the Reflecting Pool was totally packed all the way back to the WWII monument. We found a place in the shade under the trees off from the side of the pond, I could just see a tiny piece of the furthest jumbotron through the crowd and trees, but the sound was perfect.
I went back to the World War II memorial to take photos of the crowds lining the Pool, it wasn't until I saw the aerial photo that I noticed how huge the crowd was in the overflow field off to the left. From the back of WWII memorial, I took photos up toward the Monument, and the field was already filling and continuous streams of people were joining the growing flood of humanity. This was an hour before the start of the ceremony.
When I went back into the crowd, I noticed an inspirational young woman in her Naval Academy uniform passing by a group of elderly vets seated on lawn chairs by an over-crowded sidewalk (people who got there at 7am got those spots). As she passed them, the old gents reached out and shook her hand, thanking her, and thanking her beaming Dad walking behind her.
Marcus Luttrell, the SEAL hero of "Sole Survivor" received the biggest, longest applause of anyone introduced all day.
Just before the Pledge, a V of geese flew low and fast over the Pool, toward Lincoln, like the jets over the Super Bowl, eliciting a roar of loud applause from the crowd. Two old guys near me smiled to each other, one said "who arranged that?" and the other guy wordlessly answered, pointing to the sky.
God bless America.August 29, 2010 - 7:50 am Link to this Comment
33. Charles
Glenn Beck makes history: Washington rally shows power of conservatism in America
Although this was not a Tea Party rally, large numbers of Tea Party supporters took part, reflecting the rise of a rapidly growing movement spurred by widespread public disillusionment with the Big Government agenda of the Obama administration.
The large numbers who turned out defied an intensely hostile and negative media campaign that attacked the decision to hold the event on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream Speech" as a cynical political gimmick. They proved their critics spectacularly wrong.August 29, 2010 - 7:51 am Link to this Comment
34. Larry Sheldon
Nobody ever goes to a Beck program, they are always too crowded.August 29, 2010 - 7:52 am Link to this Comment
35. bogie wheel
The Washington elite sees everything through its particular prism.
It's not just the Washington elite, Wretchard, it's the entire Ruling Class.
And I'm becoming more & more convinced that the prism through which they see the country class (to use Codevilla's term) is their own broken & corrupted selves. We've remarked on this here on BC before but it bears repeating. Consistently, when the left accuses conservatives of something, it will be something which the left (A) has done in the past, (B) is currently doing, or (C) would do if they got the opportunity.
Everything from racism & bigotry … to astroturfing (BTW, has Robert Gibbs been seen or heard from since he made that inopportune remark about "the professional left"?) … to vanishing commisars and airbrushing history … to suppressing speech through speech codes … to street thuggery and tyrannical levels of power consolidation (as Instapundit puts it, "curious how their first instinct is always Stalinist").
This is a spiritual condition, at root. Like the junkie who tries to justify his addiction by convincing himself that "hell, man, *everyone* does drugs." IOW the attempt to mollify and suppress overwhelming feelings of self-guilt by scapegoating another human being. I will be frank. When you have no room in your soul for dealing with sin in a Biblical fashion, through and with God, this is what you will descend to sooner or later.
Which is why Beck is completely on target in saying that America's problems are primarily, at root, spiritual problems. And America's problems therefore require a spiritual solution, not an earthly political/social/economic one.
Which is also why materialists like Crook will never get it. He denies the premise. He will not even consider the argument of spiritual problems or solutions because "spiritual" anything does not exist in his frame of reference. So OF COURSE Beck's audience is, prima facie, bigots. What *else* could be their motivation?
The weird and outrageous thing is that for the left to claim MLK as "theirs" they have to divorce him from everything spiritual in his life and his message. Or, as Thrasymachus says, to treat him as an okie-doke, i.e. the "God thing" was just cover for a purely material & earthly political power message. Hence the battle over which stream today, the conservative or the progressive, is being fed by MLK's legacy. The two rallies yesterday, Beck's Restoring Honor and Sharpton's counter-protest, each had a descendant of MLK: Beck had Alveda King, MLK's niece, and Sharpton had MLKIII. Beck is claiming that we are fighting the next-gen fight but over the same principles as MLK fought for: God-given (and therefore unalienable) individual liberties. Sharpton claims that the core of MLK's message was the "social gospel," i.e. the uplift of the poor, righting injustice with justice, etc.
The basic problem with Sharpton's claim (besides Sharpton himself) is that it does exactly, as you might expect, what the left does with MLK: it treats God as an afterthought, or at best a tangent. The "social" in "social gospel" is all that really counts, i.e. what happens on the human level is pretty much the be-all and end-all. Which I personally believe is a gross perversion of what MLK was saying.
King's core civil rights message as I understand it, and which I think was a key to its deserved (again, in my book) success, was that he wasn't saying "Uplift the poor" so much as he was saying "When men can fully live their God-given liberties and realize their dignity as creatures made in God's image, THEN the poor will become uplifted." In other words, social improvement was a direct effect of the spiritual transformation, i.e. the acknowledgement of and submission to God's view of each person, regardless of skin color. In enjoining Americans to treat each other as fellow creations of God with all the rights and dignities of creations of God, King was aligning himself darn near perfectly with the Declaration of Independence. i.e. America, let's fulfill the the promise of the premise — that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
To treat King's message as if God is incidental to how human beings are to be viewed and treated by other human beings, is to gut King's message. If God is irrelevant, on what basis do we practice any concept of justice? charity? peace? dignity? By whose standard are these things define and measured?
Oh, sure, people can pick away at Glenn Beck the person. Just as people can pick away at Martin Luther King, Jr the person. I'm not saying the two are historical equivalents, but if you want to play the ad hominem game, let's do be consistent and play it both ways.
OR … how about let's set the text of their words side by side, and let's compare what Beck is saying about God, liberty, America, justice and prosperity, and what flows from what, with what MLK said about those same things.
The funny thing is that this has been sitting in open view the whole time: that maybe, just maybe, MLK really meant what he said, it's not about skin color, it's about character. If that is true, then by jove, sure, having black skin does not give you exclusive eternal claim to MLK's legacy or message any more than having white skin excludes you from MLK's legacy or message. The truly revolutionary thing would be if Americans consciously grasped that and acted on it.
And this is what terrifies the left. Because MLK can only be "theirs" if (1) he is For Blacks Only, and (2) God is not central to MLK's vision.
If one or both turn out not to be true, and when the majority of Americans figure that out ……..
It is the End of Times for lefty secular marxist race-driven politics in this country.August 29, 2010 - 8:01 am Link to this Comment
36. Charles
21. wws
Billy Graham was another such Apostle, although his widespread acceptance came because he was careful to always stay in the mainstream and avoid political issues as much as possible. He came out of the Baptist movement, of course – Beck, coming out of the Mormon tradition has adopted the mannerisms of the more wild eyed, fire breathing folk preachers that we have had throughout our history.
BUT – those guys always found an audience because they always had a point, and we may have ignored that message for so long that it's time for it to make a big comeback.
The big thing about Beck is not so much his Mormonism as the theological change he had to make in order to exit Mormonism. Mormon's founder, Joseph Smith in Upstate New York had drunk the same Arian cool aide that Herman Melville–writer of Moby Dick — did in downstate New York in the 1830′s (as did their elders — Jefferson and Adams a generation before).
(The arian heresy–which gave rise to the Nicean creed– holds that Jesus is fully man but not fully God. People who hold this low view of Jesus are pretty much in the same camp as the Moslems as to who Jesus is.)
The effect of awakening from the arian slumber is just riveting. This is something that I can testify to having grown up in the thickets of liberal Presbyterian double speak–that cloaked the same arian heresy. This awakening happened to me back in the 1990′s and it just reordered the entire way that I thought.
Beck is acting out this same transformation.August 29, 2010 - 8:07 am Link to this Comment
37. rickl
35. bogie wheel
Consistently, when the left accuses conservatives of something, it will be something which the left (A) has done in the past, (B) is currently doing, or (C) would do if they got the opportunity.
Don't forget "stolen elections".August 29, 2010 - 8:34 am Link to this Comment
38. Larry Sheldon
"Bogey wheel" at #35 (Is "bogey wheel" a reference to the little wheels that kept the huge steam engines on the track by leading into the curve to start the main part turning before the drivers got there? Seems appropriate here.) has said what I would say, only that is written a whole lot better than I would.
May I say "Amen"?August 29, 2010 - 8:40 am Link to this Comment
39. hdgreene
Actually, I think Clive Cook did a decent job of reporting on the event, mostly because of his admission of "religious ignorance." In a sense, it excuses his big miss: Glen Beck is a Mormon and twenty years ago I could not imagine a Mormon getting such a crowd of "Christians" together without controversy. I put "Christian" in quotes because you do not have to be Christian to want to attend this "nondenominational" event and one of the controversies of the past would have been: are Mormons even Christians?
If I were a secular humanist this peaceful reenactment of "Godspell" by the middling classes would worry me. All the barbarian tribes are becoming close allies aiming to sack the civilization center — while eating Jello fruit salad laced with mini-marshmallows.
In Cook's defense: I suppose if you are an atheist all religions look a like — as long as they refrain from, say, cooking up children and eating them in more than a metaphorical sense.
I see that Mr. Cook worked for The Economist for twenty years. I used read the Economist just about every week and credit it for turning me into a Reagan Democrat and then Reagan Republican. In the 1990′s it seemed to become a more verbose version of Time Magazine — saturated with pseudo socialism — and I stopped reading it. I think it even endorsed Senator Obama for the Presidency. The Economist had the "Free Enterprise, Free Market" brand almost to itself and they traded it in for "Tony Blair turd way-ism" and became part of the echo chamber. Is Mr. Cook part of the explanation for the change? Or, perhaps, a victim of it? In any case, I have this vision of sub-editors working for The Economist but actually reading The Guardian in order to keep up with the ever-changing truth.
Also, I used to read the Atlantic Monthly monthly but haven't seen much reason to reacquire the habit.August 29, 2010 - 8:42 am Link to this Comment
40. Josh
Thrasymachus @ 16: Read the comments at Crook; you can see that most of the left is not very smart, just people regurgitating the leftist propaganda they swallowed in 16 or more years of school.
But isn't that what most people do? Doctors go to med school and then "practice", and it is considered MALpractice if they actually experiment on their patients and try to figure out new truths.
Crook makes the same mistake that I make, that many on BC make, that even four year olds make: "If I know something, then everyone should know it." We know things, and take it as a perversion and error if others don't, too. Even when we're wrong.
It's disillusioning to look at your fellow man like this, but the number of people who don't simply "practice" in their daily lives, is vanishingly small. And many of those who fail to competently practice, are iconoclasts, tend to do everything wrong, rather than to start with a solid base and move forward – as they perhaps imagine they do.
Beck really is an odd duck. Just heard him interviewed by the irritating and incompetent Chris Wallace. Beck's strength is just that, he is one who questions and seeks, himself as well as others, and I suppose manages to move forward. It's a personal triumph, for him. I'm not incredibly impressed at where he's got to, just that he made the trip.
And, I guess that's why 500,000 people showed up. They, too, are on the trip, or at least respect it. The left – is not. The left is smug. It is in their dogma. They act out. They do not believe in their own capacity for error. They do not respect their neighbors who might not know, or might know differently.
Crook's aetheism is of the same note. Most on the right acknowledge, or seek, or respect, the idea of a higher power, along the lines of, "… or what's the journey for?" Even if you get there via aetheism, it would seem to impose a modesty that would keep you from bragging about it. I don't really understand, in my gut, why people would go to a Beck rally, but I've offered a cerebral analysis – that perhaps would not occur to someone like Crook, because he doesn't care to see such things. May his eyes, and heart, and mind be opened.August 29, 2010 - 8:46 am Link to this Comment
41. Josh
hdgreen @ 39: Just want to second your observations about both The Economist and Atlantic Monthly. On the later, I think some of that is just age, journals like AM are good for filling up young empty heads, but some is the age we live in, and the quality of most intellectual writing, that they look to serve, has deteriorated and become polemical to a degree so, so different today from what made the same journals in my youth, from the 1950s through the 1970s. Even when they sought to be polemical, back then, it seemed they did so mostly openly, aware of their own presumption, seeking to convince. Today, it's sanctimony and rant, and that has extended right into The Economist as well.August 29, 2010 - 8:51 am Link to this Comment
42. Gary Ogletree
At the Sharpton rally a student proclaimed her Dunbar, site of the event, "the first African American High School." And, I guess a memory free zone as well. So MLK's dream was to have more segregated schools?August 29, 2010 - 8:58 am Link to this Comment
43. Dr. Mabuse
#24 ricki: 21. wws
23. Stephen
Yes, that's exactly how I read it.
Same here. The guy was in Dupont Circle – and if you've been there, you know who lives in Dupont Circle: upscale, white, liberals. People who agree with the NYT, and would never dream of applying the MSM-coded slur "predominantly white" to themselves, even though it's literally true. Yet it was among these people that Crook found the hateful malice that the MSM rule insists can only be found among the "Restore Honor" people. I think that including the AP opening paragraph was meant to show that it's not enough anymore just to say a crowd is "predominantly white" and expect the readers to draw the appropriate (liberal) conclusions: i.e., racist, stupid, hostile, violent.
"Perhaps he was insincere; even so, an odd thing to say if you are addressing a quarter of a million bigots." I can see how this could be misread, but I think he's pointing out that even if you accept the arguments of the left about Beck, his praise of MLK is rather inexplicable – the guy is a success because he knows his audience. If they really are bigots, then they're the strangest bigots ever seen. I think Crook should have put the word "bigots" in scare quotes, and there wouldn't be this confusion. He doesn't sound sarcastic or condescending elsewhere in the piece, even when he admits he's an outsider to this movement, so I don't think he's suddenly introducing a charge of bigotry in this line; it just doesn't fit.August 29, 2010 - 9:09 am Link to this Comment
44. feeblemind
"We are the people they've been running from."
What a great line.August 29, 2010 - 9:12 am Link to this Comment
45. trangbang68
Forgive my quaint provincialism, but isn't Crook a Brit? (I never met any Clives in the rust belt or the deep South). The mall in Washington is not sacred ground for leftist elites but for the common man yearning to breathe free in this wonderfully blessed land where "God shed his grace". If you don't like it ,Clive, the door swings both ways. Go back to the UK and sneer at the Muslim God squad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCavKL2zdjMAugust 29, 2010 - 9:16 am Link to this Comment
46. Skip_this_post
"MLK's inner message, which the elite fully understands and implements, was for an America managed by progressives, with power taken away from the masses"
The problem with reading between the lines is that not everyone sees the same message.
Crook saw the Dupont Circle crowd (famous for being not the same as normal people. I lived there while attending GW) as being mean to the little girl that fell.
Why? Prat falls can be funny. Just ask Charles Spencer Chaplin, when you next see him. So maybe it was funny. Or maybe somebody at the table said something finny and the little girl happened to fall down. Maybe Crook was making it up.
I think you had to be there to know what was happening.
Rushing to judgment is not always a good idea. More often then not judgment isn't going anywhere and will wait for your arrival.August 29, 2010 - 9:19 am Link to this Comment
47. Elliot
Well, I will have to resign myself to permanent cheerleader position-once again, wow to the writing here and the ability to articulate just how we're feeling out here in flyover country.
This Belmont Club is pretty impressive. Thanks for doing this and cfbleachers,you have a gift imo.August 29, 2010 - 9:21 am Link to this Comment
48. whatdayameanitstoohot
While I can see where your conclusion about Crooks piece has validity, the placement of the Paragraph starting with "the truth is" runs counter to the message that was the headline written but never run. If you were addressing a quarter of a million bigots it would be an odd thing to praise Dr. King's message and call him a hero, within the same reverential context of an event thanking our warriors, within the mirror of ourselves at the pool, and our historical contexts the quotes from all of the surrounding monuments (that made up much of Becks message). So it must be concluded that the quarter of a million people who attended the rally are not bigots…(duh), but patriots and decent honest folks who are more in step with Dr. King than the self appointed defenders of his "legacy".
What does that say about the denizens of the District neighbourhoods? Who really, is out of step here? The decent people who visited DC to attend the rally or the residents who laugh a little girl's not pratt-fall but trip.
I think Crook gives food for thought to the readers of the magazine in a double speak deniable way that allows him to claim otherwise. It is not a courageous writing, but it is what it is.August 29, 2010 - 9:23 am Link to this Comment
49. Larry Shelson
I wrote that Bogey wheel "… has said what I would say, only that is written a whole lot better than I would"
I should have said "… has said what I would say if I was bright enough, knowledgeable enough, and skillful enough …"August 29, 2010 - 9:24 am Link to this Comment
50. bogie wheel
I don't really understand, in my gut, why people would go to a Beck rally,
For the record, Josh, and I don't mean this in any condescending or critical way, just to relate my own personal view as you have related yours … I went for a couple reasons:
1) I believe our country is in deep, deep, deep trouble. I think one of the factors in this trouble is that Americans who are traditional patriots and/or people of faith, have been made to feel like they are isolated dinosaurs.
Tea Parties and a rally like this act, on just a very basic level, as (1) a psychological (re)affirmation that you are not alone & irrelevant, and (2) a show of your support for your fellow Americans who think like you do.
And to add to what Papa Ray said: SHOWING UP is important. It takes time, effort, and money. No, it's not storming the beaches at Normandy, but, dang, if it's what you are able do for your country in the time & place that you are born into, then shame on you if you do not do it.
2) Glenn Beck the person, the Mormon, the entertainer, the rodeo clown, the whatever, is not important to me per se. I don't invest Beck with magical-mystical powers. It may be that he is a patriot. It may be he is a cynical political hack. It may be that God has put His finger on Beck for such a time as this. Or it may be that Beck is merely a showman riding a wave of popular sentiment. Whichever of these is true, it is also true that Beck is a fallible human being. Beck is not what I took Restoring Honor to be about. Which was why I was not all crushed when I didn't get within even half a dozen Mickey Mantle homers to the stage. I saw & experienced what I wanted to see and experience, which was my fellow Americans showing up for America.
My personal belief is that there is something of God at work through Beck but I don't exclude the possibility of other more mundane explanations. And I don't claim to know, even if there is providence afoot, what the master plan is. I can only say what I think the plan might kindasorta be and act accordingly. Do the best I can with the info I have, while remaining cognizent of the black swan thing and those weird little episodes of talking asses. (Numbers 22-24)
3) I believe our country is in deep, deep, deep trouble. The father who raised me was the kind of man who believed America to be so special a place that she was to be defended tooth and claw when she was under attack or infiltration. He did his part (which was tremendous) in his time. Having transmitted this belief in American exeptionalism to me, he would be sorely disappointed in me if I did not do my part in my time. And his disappointment would be my eternal shame. I cannot let him down. I just can't. Yesterday was important for me to do, because I know Dad would have gone had he still been here, and of an age and physical condition to make the trip. So I was there because I wanted to be, but I was also there for Dad, and for the buddies he lost on Okinawa: Ed Murray, Zeke Zehring, Lou Brown, and Art Turner.
It wasn't "Glenn Beck" that brought me to the event. If the guy selling insurance down the highway from my house had organized Restoring Honor on the same premise, I still would have gone. So I don't consider it a "Beck event" (though word-wise, it is convenient to refer to it that way, it is unfortunate in that it is misleading), more like an event about & for America, organized by Beck.
BTW, Beck's efforts helped raise $5.5 million for the Special Operations Warrior Fund. Not to be sneezed at.August 29, 2010 - 9:33 am Link to this Comment
51. bogie wheel
"We are the people they've been running from."
What a great line.
Agreed. As was Larry's comment @ 34:
Nobody ever goes to a Beck program, they are always too crowded.
Just like those Tea Parties. For events that nobody goes to, they sure do have a way of filling up a lot of space.
Count me as one of the 300,000? 500,000? "nobodies" who was there yesterday.August 29, 2010 - 9:37 am Link to this Comment
52. Thrasymachus
Wretchard #14-
>>(quote)This wave you speak of is now passing the point of energetic civic engagement; it rolls inevitably toward anger and disillusionment. (end quote)
I too have lost my enthusiasm — for permanent solutions and perfect Earths — but I have not yet lost the conviction that it is necessary to take out the trash and drag yourself out of bed each day to earn a buck. I think most people who came to the rally would rather be sailing or having a barbecue. What brought them there, reluctantly I'd wager in some cases, is that terrible realization that unless they did nobody else would.
Last Saturday I watched all those ex-Muslims rally near the Cenoptaph in Sydney. Some were young and idealistic; others were older and unused to the cynical ways of politics. And I realized that it was this very quality of hope; this willingness not to give up on taking out the trash, that keeps this world turning. It runs on those who haven't given up on it. And it shamed me to some extent, even though by rights I should "know better". There are some things we ought never to laugh at. And so I lent a hand.<<
Here's the thing, Wretchard- a rally by Muslims will probably lead quickly to the powerful doing something for the Muslims. A rally by the ex-Muslims will lead to absolutely no action by the powerful. The Glen Beck rally was huge and represents the sentiments of a large part of the population, its most dependable and productive part, but will have no practical effect either.
There is model that the system responds to pressure from significant groups, either because it regards this as desirable or because it feels it has to. I don't believe this to be the case. The system does what it wants to, and helps who it wants to. The Muslims don't rally to pressure the system into giving them what they want; the system is already going to do that, and the rally is to promote the idea that the Muslims are an oppressed, aggrieved minority who it is only right to help. The system couldn't care less about an actual oppressed, aggrieved minority, the ex-Muslims, so it just ignores them.August 29, 2010 - 9:41 am Link to this Comment
53. Unsk
Thrasynchus, "But MLK's inner message, which the elite fully understands and implements, was for an America managed by progressives, with power taken away from the masses, with many special privileges for blacks as supporters of this regime."
I dunno about that. What I remember most bout that time is that the black community's attitudes towards whites, completely pivoted towards self segregation/black power after King's death. MLK was the bulwark holding back black racism. In the last months of his life, it seemed he was one of lone voices preaching integration in the black community. Integration went from being cool to uncool in a matter of months after him. If King had "inner messages" pushing today's progressive agenda, they sure weren't getting heard very well over the radical racist black power appeals. The radical's were trying to push aside his message of accommodation, and they were succeeding.
W: i think your initial interpretation is correct. The first half of the piece drips with condensation, and superiority. One is not humble when one accuses a quarter of a million people of being racist of which you know so little about them except that they are patriotic. It's the same ol' ungovernable bitter clinger thing. Crook is just genuinely bewildered and surprised that so many people would believe what to his way of thinking is ridiculous.August 29, 2010 - 9:42 am Link to this Comment
The Left's coffin is being nailed shut, mostly by the actions of themselves, but not entirely, as witnessed Saturday.
The reality of the numbers won't be lost on the smarter of the left, and there is not a damn thing they can do about it, and they know it.August 29, 2010 - 9:44 am Link to this Comment
55. Cetera
They still don't get it… So what did happen yesterday that they don't get? We have some explanations as to why they don't get it, be it a fundamental difference in viewpoints, lack of ability to conceive of something totally different, Christian vs. Atheism, etc.
But what happened? I have a vision of it in my head, but I do not have the words to express it. My earlier attempt was everyone stood together for each other, not as a show of power to Washington D.C., but simply for each other. I think that is true as far as it goes, but there was something else that occurred yesterday that I can't quite get out.
In so far as it is impossible to go "Galt" in public, that is indeed what happened yesterday. Half-a-million-plus citizens got off the train, left the reservation, or what-have-you. The cliff is still there, and the train is still headed for it. It may be impossible to stop it or turn it in time. The train will be going over. Somehow a large number of people got off the train yesterday. They'll still be affected, and hurt, by the train going over the cliff, but they are no longer on it. They won't be carried over the edge. They have, in thought and spirit, gone Galt, done so in public, passively, and without words.
This may be a huge turning point, and I am not sure how it will all play out. But what happened yesterday I feel may be the most important event in the history of my life, and certainly the most dangerous thing to have ever happened to the left in possibly the lifetime of anyone currently still alive. I'm not yet sure exactly what it was, but it was profound, and it didn't have anything to do with Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, or any other individual. Something changed yesterday, something huge. I'm looking forward to witnessing its effects.August 29, 2010 - 9:52 am Link to this Comment
56. shoe
second attempt to post:
"24. rickl
21. wws
23. Stephen
Yes, that's exactly how I read it."
wretchard is (rightfully,imo) reluctant to extend Crook the benefit of the doubt.
So much of "prgressive" writing is of the "everything you know is wrong" variety…as is the "Progressive" love of Newspeak and twisting the language in their campaign to support the "everything you know is wrong" meme.
At most, Crook shows some mixed feelings about both the rally and the attendees…while still having Beck as a convenient target:
"He strikes me as a huckster drunk on his own pitch, a true believer in his own cult, ready to hurtle off the rails at any moment — and all of this seems obvious."
this,of course,doesn't bring any other recent political figures to mind for me.
how about you?
Have patience…Crook will be back to seeking the adoration of his fellow hipsters shortly.
Having been subtle and ambiguous(nuanced??)in his column,he won't need to bow and scrape too awfully much to get back in their good graces.August 29, 2010 - 9:53 am Link to this Comment
57. bogie wheel
Thrasymachus @ 52 wrote:
The Glen Beck rally was huge and represents the sentiments of a large part of the population, its most dependable and productive part, but will have no practical effect either.
Well, if one is speaking strictly in material, human terms, then yes, I would probably agree with you.
But I think that, like Crook, you are excluding a possibility. That possibility is a strong belief of most everyone who went to Restoring Honor yesterday. Which is "that there's a divinity that shapes our ends, rough hew them how we will."
If your premise is that humans and only humans operate and decide these things, then sure, "the system" will grind on as it has been designed to do by the political looter class and their scavenging followers, regardless of yesterday's event.
OTOH if your premise is that there is strong evidence of a divine role in the founding and continued existence of America, then the actions of earthly powers and princes are not going to be the ultimate determinant.
I would prefer to wait & see what happens before declaring the future already sealed & closed on most of this, including the repercussions of the rally, i.e. that it "will have no practical effect."August 29, 2010 - 10:00 am Link to this Comment
58. Moniker
Tony @ 13 – Thank you for your excellent report, and for your attendance.
I wanted to be there, largely for what W calls "taking out the trash." Glenn Beck deserves my support for the work he's been doing, which includes many revelations about the connections of the current administration, delivered to a wide audience, thanks to Fox. He's put his life on the line, not as surely as soldiers do, but pretty convincingly to this non-combatant.August 29, 2010 - 10:08 am Link to this Comment
59. Charles
What is truly astounding is that Crook doesn't get it. The real motto of Hope and Change party should be: "we are the people they've been running from."
If you change that to "we are the people we have been running from."…
Then you get a pretty fair approximation of Pogo's famous line from the 1971 earth day comic strip.
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Interestingly, Walt Kelly first used the line in connection with McCarthy in 1953.August 29, 2010 - 10:13 am Link to this Comment
60. Josh
bw @ 50: beautifully said!
fwiw, that's what I was trying to get at, that it wasn't for Beck as such, as the left seems to wonder at. perhaps (!) the left are themsevles more into hero worship, fetishism. no leader is that good, and that's exactly why we have modesty, not to mention democracy.August 29, 2010 - 10:46 am Link to this Comment
61. Thrasymachus
Josh #40 I remember from my math classes long ago something called an "identity", which is different from an equation in that it is always true. An identity just is. You can argue, derive, or discover many things but an identity just is.
Leftist rhetoric functions primarily by just asserting that things are true. This is intuitively offensive to the typical human being unless it is sugar-coated a great deal. The commenters at Crook mostly don't have the skill to do this, so they mostly just yell "Racist!" "Fascist!" "Religious nutcase!" in some combination.August 29, 2010 - 10:49 am Link to this Comment
62. Thrasymachus
bogie wheel #57 I don't know if there is a benevolent God shaping things to a good end, although I hope so. Even so in the Old Testament there are multiple instances of God figuring the Israelites are just going to have to learn things the hard way, and maybe that's what's happening now.August 29, 2010 - 10:55 am Link to this Comment
63. Uncle Jefe
"The real motto of Hope and Change party should be: "we are the people they've been running from."
Or "We are the useful idiots we've been waiting for."August 29, 2010 - 11:03 am Link to this Comment
64. Tom Perkins
"The Glen Beck rally was huge and represents the sentiments of a large part of the population, its most dependable and productive part, but will have no practical effect either."
Like a ship that takes miles to turn, the Tea Partiers are a rudder making a hole in the water, the wake boiling behind a ship that has yet to turn more than a few degrees from the icefield which otherwise means it's doom. A 180 is required. This wave will not crest in 2010, and it's full effect could not be possibly foreseen until 2014 or 2016. I cannot think why you despair.August 29, 2010 - 11:22 am Link to this Comment
65. Tom Perkins
But if you said I couldn't type I wouldn't quibble.
I am now making use of the wonderful, "click to edit" widget.August 29, 2010 - 11:29 am Link to this Comment
66. wws
For Larry Sheldon: I really wasn't trying to cheap shot Beck on his history, but I suppose I should explain the comment a little. First, I went to one of his rallies a few months back and I enjoyed myself, I really did, and I understood his message. But he'll get going good and about every 20 minutes or so, he'll pop in a mistake so cringe-worthy that you want to put your face in your hands. But then he'll get back on track. I hope he can continue to improve, because these little glitches are things that his enemies could use to attack him – but of course, they would have to listen to him carefully, as I did, to even notice them. I'm deliberately not going to be any more specific than this, because that would be to degrade Beck the Movement by attacking the small errors of Beck the man.
Beck the man is not as important to me as Beck the Movement. He's fulfilling a useful role in our ongoing Passion Play at this point in time, and he's made himself a focal point for a lot of the building energy that's out there. As long as he doesn't take himself too seriously, and doesn't start to think it's about him (and so far he's steered clear of that, to his great credit) then he'll continue to do well.
I'm not going to say anything more specific about my complaints because those are just things that can be used by the left to criticize him, and by extension, us. I had made some notes during the talk I went to, but I threw them away. The main reason I wish he would clean this stuff up is that it's an easy avenue of attack for his enemies. Luckily the left is too intellectually challenged to even notice any of this, and I'm not going to be the one to help them out.August 29, 2010 - 11:36 am Link to this Comment
67. bogie wheel
Thrasymachus @ 62 -
There's a distinction between chastening (or discipline) and destruction.
Israel was chastened, sometimes severely so, in the OT but never outright destroyed. The Messiah was going to come from Israel, so Israel had to continue to exist.
There's a passage in Hebrews 12 which starts out quoting Proverbs:
"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." (that's the Proverbs quote, from Prov. 3:11,12)
(Hebrews 12:7+) "Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."
I will leave it to the better theologians on this board to parse the ways in which Biblical counsel is to be differentiated between individuals and nations when it comes to passages describing repentance and redemption.
For myself, I do believe in God's role in the life of the United States, and I am in the company of many of our Founders and generations of American Christians when I say that. I believe the United States is in the early stages of what is, at the very least, a severe chastening. I cannot rule out destruction. It breaks my heart to have to say that this could quite possibly be so. But at the same time I have been praying, like I have never prayed before, for America to be spared destruction. (And by this I don't even necessarily mean smoldering wrecks of cities … tho in the age of a nuclear Iran and a world going whacko that cannot be ruled out either … but if the Constitution becomes a permanent dead letter and the light of liberty goes out in this country once and for all, then America will have been destroyed no matter what superficial appearance may remain. Liberty defines us. So long as liberty lives in America, then America lives. When liberty is dead, then America is dead.)
As I wrote once before, in direct response to whiskey back when he was on BC, God has not sent me the memo that He is through with America. And unless and until I do get the memo, I will continue to believe, pray, and act like America's continued existence as an emblem and laboratory of liberty is still in God's plans for our future. Translation: It ain't over till the fat lady sings. So don't bolt the theater prematurely.
Chastening I can accept, even if it's terrible, and even if I personally don't live to see the outcome. If we have, as Lincoln said in the Gettysburg Address, "a new birth of freedom" on the other end of the chastening, then we will have come out ahead IMO, because it will be an expression of God's mercy and continuing care for us as opposed to His turning His face on us altogether. And because chastening is better than the alternative.
For those to whom it matters, I have been praying Psalm 27 and the hymn "How Firm a Foundation" a lot lately. And I mean a lot.August 29, 2010 - 11:53 am Link to this Comment
68. Don Rodrigo
The local (DC) Fox affiliate refused to acknowledge the dramatic difference in the size of the competing rallies. They literally scripted their reportage to make it sound like the two gatherings were roughly equal. This was the late evenings news, mind you, well after varying crowd estimates had settled into the national news narrative. This was a FOX affiliate. Astounding. Disgraceful. Cowrdly.
I'm aware that a network affiliate doesn't have to cleave to Fox News Channel protocol, but it was disconcerting. The local ABC affiliate's on-sight reporter referred to the Honor rally as the "much larger of the two," and didn't even need to get into a numbers game because he stated reality in general terms. I wonder why the Fox affiliate folks were so wetting-their-pants frightened?August 29, 2010 - 11:54 am Link to this Comment
69. docbill
Yes I think it was a Galt moment. What we need now is a Galt moment in every big city in the country. NY, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Houston, Denver, Dallas, Atlanta: might we even dare hope, San Fran. and LA. Let everyone raise their hand and vote I'm out of here before Nov. I believe that sort of showing would reinforce the wave in Nov. and scare some of the not up for reelection pols. into paying attention; especially the country club Repubs. and the National committee.August 29, 2010 - 11:57 am Link to this Comment
70. PA Cat
Wretchard says: What is truly astounding is that Crook doesn't get it
Obama not only doesn't "get" it, he doesn't "get" the military, either. Even the NYT is admitting that he has no clue about being CiC. "A former adviser to the president, who like others insisted on anonymity in order to discuss the situation candidly, said that Mr. Obama's relationship with the military was 'troubled' and that he 'doesn't have a handle on it.' The relationship will be further tested by year's end when Mr. Obama evaluates his Afghanistan strategy in advance of his July deadline to begin pulling out. As one administration official put it, 'His commander in chief role is about to get tested again, and in a very dramatic way.'"
Read the whole thing: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/world/29commander.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hpAugust 29, 2010 - 11:58 am Link to this Comment
71. Dex Quire
"…a quarter of a million bigots."
That tag ending of Crook's makes my blood boil. Did he bother to talk to any of the atendees? Even to look at them is to look at the great swath of America that is pretty much 'live and let live' America. Is it impossible for a moderately aware writer like Crook to believe that some of them might read "The Atlantic" now and then? Why the gratuitous insult? The left is completely lost in an America that has moved on from the 1960s and early 70s. They need to keep reviving the beast that has been slain; they are pitiful.August 29, 2010 - 12:17 pm Link to this Comment
72. Larry Sheldon
66. wws
We have clarity and I agree with you. I do think my charges stand unchallenged for a lot of commentators, but I am convinced that you are innocent of them, if your explanations are from the heart (and I have no reservations about them).
In earlier lives I have done public speaking, a lot of it on very technical subjects before hundreds of people who know more about the subject than I did. I know how easy it is to screw up and get hammered for it (by me sometimes–horror is waking up in a hotel room with the realization of what it was that I said in contrast with both what I meant to say and conventional wisdom on the matter).
Beck, like anybody that talks a lot, says dumb stuff–most of which I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe. An example of that (that I have not successfully brought to his attention, as near as I can tell) occurred a couple of months back where he spent most of three hours on a rant in favor of what I believe to be a cornerstone of progressive doctrine. I'v not heard it again, and I suspect he got lost in old beliefs that have actually been replaced in his mind by the correct ideas.
There was one in the event Saturday that I expect will be found by somebody that will start a fusilade against the people as a body on that stage.
I heard it when it happened and though "Oh my Lord. That is going to hurt."
From an article that is generally hostile is what I believe to be an absolutely correct transcription of what C. L Jackson said: "We were brought together by what I call this servant of God, son of God, Glenn Beck."
The "s" is correctly rendered in the lower case–Jackson was not calling Beck "Jesus" (the Son of God for the theologically impaired). He meant a usage like "child of God", "man of God", a son (might have called Palin a daughter) of God.
Any body who is a powerful speaker is going to say things that are wrong, confusing, or what ever. It happens.
Most people worth caring about have the grace (of Grace, if you like) to listen to and hear the message, not pick at the mis-steps along the way.
I really do not believe that Beck is a progressive and I can think if several things that will account for the error without him hav9ing to be a closeted progressive.
Post posing edit:
"I'm not going to say anything more specific about my complaints because those are just things that can be used by the left to criticize him, and by extension, us. I had made some notes during the talk I went to, but I threw them away. The main reason I wish he would clean this stuff up is that it's an easy avenue of attack for his enemies. Luckily the left is too intellectually challenged to even notice any of this, and I'm not going to be the one to help them out."
That is a powerful statement and I agree. I hate it like I hate the Kevlar vest and all the black-suited folks with hearing problems, that is the world we live in.August 29, 2010 - 12:22 pm Link to this Comment
73. PA Cat
Wretchard #14: And I realized that it was this very quality of hope; this willingness not to give up on taking out the trash, that keeps this world turning. It runs on those who haven't given up on it. And it shamed me to some extent, even though by rights I should "know better". There are some things we ought never to laugh at. And so I lent a hand.
That metaphor seems to be resonating elsewhere: the guys at Hillbuzz went to the rally, and their first eyewitness report draws an extended contrast between the sea of debris left on the Mall after the Lightworker's inauguration and the insistence by yesterday's crowd on taking out the trash:
"My Favorite Thing I Saw at the Restoring Honor Rally":
"As I work on the larger essay on what it was like to be on the ground for the Restoring Honor rally, I keep coming back to what's the most awesome thing I saw yesterday: and it was the simple fact that scores of rally attendees brought GARBAGE BAGS with them, along with all their coolers and bags of goodies, so that they could not only make sure they took out all the trash they created that day, but also had EXTRA garbage bags to make sure that NO ONE AROUND THEM made a mess, either. . . . . I cheered out loud yesterday when I saw the first rally attendee (first of MANY) bring out her garbage bags, and shout to all who could hear that she had extra in case they had trash too. I went up to this woman, thanked her for doing this, and she told me there was 'no way in Hell I was going to allow a mess to be left behind, not like what Obama did to the mall after his Inauguration.' . . .
It was humbling, to me, that it didn't occur to me to bring garbage bags too. I intended to make no mess, take all my trash with me, and not contribute to any mess that was there…but I was not aware enough to realize I, too, should have been prepared to help clean up as well.
That's a life lesson, there. I, and you with me, need to be taking garbage bags to big events I attend. I need to not only enjoy the event, but do my part to clean up afterwards. I need to take that step, and take responsibility for what's happening around me…and urge my fellow citizens to do the same thing.
We ALL need to provide leadership like this.
Even if it's leadership as simply as providing garbage bags at moments that need it…times when you're part of what's standing between an Obama Inauguration-grade filth storm and keeping our public spaces as clean, pristine, and ordered as they deserve to be."
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/08/29/my-favorite-thing-i-saw-at-the-restoring-honor-rally-yesterday-people-brought-trash-bags-and-made-sure-the-garbage-was-taken-out-as-they-left-so-that-the-rally-area-was-clean-after-we-all-departed/#commentsAugust 29, 2010 - 12:26 pm Link to this Comment
74. hdgreene
One is not humble when one accuses a quarter of a million people of being racist of which you know so little about them except that they are patriotic. It's the same ol' ungovernable bitter clinger thing. Crook is just genuinely bewildered and surprised that so many people would believe what to his way of thinking is ridiculous.
I read it a little differently. I thought Mr. Cook was addressing those who thought it was a racist gathering (he knows his audience) when he said of Beck's praise for MLK: "Perhaps he was insincere; even so, an odd thing to say if you are addressing a quarter of a million bigots." In other words, he offered it as evidence that the crowd did not consist of bigots. And then he went on to say "The truth is, it was an enormously friendly, good-natured event."
What he said about Glen Beck is almost word for word what I said about Al Gore at the time of "An Inconvenient Truth," except I went further. I called Al Gore a carny barker huckster grifter out to pants the entire US economy. Of course Glen Beck does not want us to waste 45 trillion dollars and turn control of the entire world over to a small priestly caste — which is why he won't get the Nobel Peace Prize.
I've listend to Glen Beck occasionally for years. Much of the time he talked sports and entertainment and was often quite funny. But then he'd lapse into inspirational self improvement and I'd change the channel.
It was only after 9/11 that he thought seriously about politics. Still, that put him ahead of 200 million other Americans. And now we can all join Socialist Anonymous because there are times when we all want our neighbors to pick up the tab and it would be nice to have friends who talk us out of the urge. And then we can all have a drink together.August 29, 2010 - 12:35 pm Link to this Comment
75. Daniel K Day
The following is a comment by Pascal which he asked me to post, as he is not getting through.
Early on yesterday I was irked by the media's lame attempt to underplay the crowd size. I could see from TV coverage that their claim of under 100,000, and categorized as 10s of thousands, were simply ludicrous.
So I did some work and came up with a pretty good scaling device. Click on the link to see it. Hope you like it. You can use it today and on into the future.August 29, 2010 - 12:48 pm Link to this Comment
76. Larry Sheldon
73. PA Cat.
That is a major issue and concern for me too. (http://www.facebook.com/lfsheldon?v=wall&story_fbid=142833742420752&ref=mf if it will let you see it, is a thread on the subject last night.)
also important were a couple of incidents (reported by Beck or his people, so caution is advised) where he took a hundred tickets to the Friday event down to the Mall and encountered politeness (I picture him handing out tickets to people until they were gone and hearing "Aw, darn" and then on to something else to talk about.)
Other stories (there were several reports, I don't know how many incidents, of people in 40-strong prayer meetings or circles like you might see in established groups of believers. When the prayer was ended, the groups broke up, people going their separate ways, saying "So long. Nice to have met you!
One last thought–one that city folks might not be able to relate to. In the years when we lived in a city (or visit one now) it seems like there id always at least one siren blaring.
Even though we live near an intersection of USA 275 and US6, we can weeks and months without hearing a siren.
During to the Saturday event, I heard one siren (I have read that four people were transported for heat problems). One siren in 4 hours. Where my daughter lives in town, I think there are that many muggings, a shooting, and several traffic stops in that period.
I have to wonder if the SWAT team that was staged there felt needed.August 29, 2010 - 12:55 pm Link to this Comment
77. Sara (Pal2Pal)
So all those people who attended for the purpose of "restoring honor" to those who have served this country and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice of their life for this country equates to a quarter million bigots? Excuse me while I go throw up. Crook should look in the mirror to get a good idea what a real bigot looks like. +August 29, 2010 - 1:06 pm Link to this Comment
78. hdgreene
I now see that the name of the author is Clive Crook, not Cook — as I wrote above. I was trying to be fair to the guy and then misspelled his name. Such is life. I'll let him misspell mine in his next article — as long as he does not take an extreme position.August 29, 2010 - 1:24 pm Link to this Comment
79. Larry Sheldon
61. Thrasymachus
A is A
On another subject (crowd size and makeup) that was mentioned up there somewhere, I hope.
This is a pure question–I don't have any idea what the right answer is.
In the audience Saturday, how did the ratio of whites to not-whites relate to the general population nationwide? How about at Sharpton's little ….never mind, I wrote something rude an took it out.
And is it me, or has Bachmann's inappropriate plea for attention be pretty seriously ignored by everybody?August 29, 2010 - 1:44 pm Link to this Comment
80. blert
Don Rodrigo…
Fox has a hyper-active Arab shareholder. Ever since he joined the board, Fox has muted anything that could be construed as raising the alarm about islamism.
Saudi Billionaire Forces Fox To Alter French Muslim Riot Coverage
The Saudi billionaire, Al-waleed bin Talal, is a friend of News Corporation chairman Rupert Murdoch and controls an influential number of voting shares in the company.
What this all means is that there is NO uninfluenced national news platform free of taqiya or dis-information.
The Fox connection through Talal was the source of much merriment on Stuart's show this last week.
The fool should have been frightened instead.August 29, 2010 - 1:55 pm Link to this Comment
81. Doug
5. geoffgo…
The Dissent of Man.August 29, 2010 - 2:00 pm Link to this Comment
82. gadfly
Clive Crook wrote:
There he stands, with the answer to everything, gravely propounding his theories of life, the universe and everything that surrounds it. Wrapped up in his own psychodrama, his self-regard seems limitless.
He strikes me as a huckster drunk on his own pitch, a true believer in his own cult, ready to hurtle off the rails at any moment — and all of this seems obvious.
So … was our Atlantic editor describing the main speaker at the event held on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on August 28, 2010, or the event held 47 years earlier?
In the end, however, I conclude that Mr. Crook is a near-convert … not to God, but to an honest attempt by Glenn Beck to turn the country back to its roots.August 29, 2010 - 2:02 pm Link to this Comment
83. Hrunker Unnerby
Blert, thanks for the link. This makes FOX News failure to draw out who precisely is funding the Ground Zero Mosque deeply suspicious. Obviously someone at FOX must know, but they're unwilling to admit that they suckle from the same tainted tit!
I'd like to see a bit of a commentator's revolt at FOX News, one that can force the divestiture of this Saudi Moolah.August 29, 2010 - 2:03 pm Link to this Comment
84. Doug
At least when O'Reilly was gone, Laura Ingraham had the chance to address the Mosque of Triumph honestly.
Cold Comfort, indeed.August 29, 2010 - 2:08 pm Link to this Comment
85. veracious
Blert, I'm all about that gem. Many hundreds of billion dollars are buying a transformation of USA. I don't believe there is enough good money to undo what has already been transferred, from good to the bad.
It is now about the heart only. Always, was; USA prospered, was blessed and not cursed, by its voluntary obedience to Yahweh. The laws of the universe, if not followed, result in there being no earth, sky, sun, wind and ocean…chaos. They are the laws of how elements of the physical world _relate_ to each other. The simple laws of Yahweh, are about how man _relates_ to man and to his creator.
Teshevah! Repent, USA! Turn away from your deceptions. Return to true relationships.August 29, 2010 - 2:25 pm Link to this Comment
86. sirius
"…a quarter of a million bigots."
Seems ironical to me. And consistent with the closing paragraph.
IOW the rally attendees were neither bigots nor mean. (Which, at least to my reading, points the finger elsewhere.)August 29, 2010 - 2:40 pm Link to this Comment
87. Unsk
A. Crook admits he doesn't get the appeal of Beck
B. Crook admits he saw no racism and that it was a warm family friendly gathering.
C. Crook admits that Beck used the King "I have a dream" speech in a positive way.
D. Crook is genuinely perplexed that so many Americans would fall for such a obvious huckster as Beck selling such out-molded concepts like God and Country.
However, after all that is said, Crook's tone is still that those at the 'Respecting Honor' rally were bigots anyway. Why bring up " a quarter of million bigots" if not to imply it and plant that seed? The quick skim read of this article intentionally screams "These People are Bigots". It is as if, to use Thrasymchus "inner message" idea, Crook is saying that Beck's inner message was known to be pleasingly racist to the crowd despite the lack of overt racist language or content. It 's like saying the outward appearances of these tea partiers are harmless enough, but we of the hallowed elite all know that this rabble of ungovernable bitter clingers are scary dangerous racists deep down anyway, once you strip away the smiles and flags from those grandmothers and children.August 29, 2010 - 2:58 pm Link to this Comment
88. Larry Sheldon
I have another idjit question.
There is much ado about the all-white 87,000 at the Restoring Honor event.
I asked back up stream there a ways "In the audience Saturday, how did the ratio of whites to not-whites relate to the general population nationwide?"
It takes me a while to think things through and I don't know if I am through yet, but I did come to another question or four.
What is in "not-white"? There are peoples whose ancestors were here before the whites came (talk about regrets over inadequate border security and immigration control!). What was their representation Saturday as a function of their part of the whole population? (In case the connection is not clear–they two were denied full citizenship–some would argue, still are. If you have an excess of elation, meet me in Pine Ridge, or Rosebud, or St. Francis for a glass of water, or White Clay for a beer. You will leave with a clear understanding of what "depression" means.)
And another question came to mind. There was a long time when our women were not citizens (a digression: Why in the name of all that is holy do our women think Sharia law is such a good idea?) Anyway–how many women were there, as a function of the total population?
And why do these groups get no attention? (Not counting the women's right to kill her children.)August 29, 2010 - 2:59 pm Link to this Comment
89. wretchard
I've come around to the view, as some commenters have already pointed out, that Crook was saying that while he had no use for Beck himself, the rallyists were fundamentally decent people. I missed that that through my own stupdity. A lot of commentators in the media were making the accusation that I ascribed to Crook. But he himself, I now see, was not.August 29, 2010 - 3:38 pm Link to this Comment
90. cadams
66. wws
For Larry Sheldon: I really wasn't trying to cheap shot Beck on his history, but I suppose I should explain the comment a little.
Please tell us what you thought was goofy history, cringe-worthy. People here are pretty smart; we're not offended. I would like to know.August 29, 2010 - 4:01 pm Link to this Comment
91. Marty
wretchard @ 89 gets it right, imho, except I would not say he was stupid, more that he succumbed to the provocation of the multitude of witless and mean-spirited comments from the left, and didn't see at first that Crook's wasn't just more of the same.
What a sorry pass we have come to. As I kept trying to tell people in 2007-08, and ever since, this is what you get with a community organizer in the White House—anger and divisiveness, coming right from the top.
And I happen to think Alinsky did good work in the 1930s-40s-50s, and he has been largely mis-used since. Highly recommend Nicholas von Hoffman's new book, "Radical" for those who want to put Alinsky in context.August 29, 2010 - 4:02 pm Link to this Comment
92. MarkJ
Beck's event explains why the elites will be tearing their hair and rending their clothing this November:
"How could the Republicans have possibly taken back both the House and Senate? Nobody we knew voted for them."August 29, 2010 - 4:04 pm Link to this Comment
93. joe buzz
How about;
We are the clingers he warned you about….August 29, 2010 - 4:08 pm Link to this Comment
94. bogie wheel
I uploaded my video and photos taken from the top of the Washington Monument here:
This is just basic/basic (no audio, no motion graphics) since I didn't have time to do more. Plus, the photo quality ain't that great. The WM has old, thick window panes at the top, which don't do any favors for photographers trying to snap shots of the grounds.
But what I shot was about as comprehensive a view of the area from the west lawn of the WM looking toward the Lincoln Memorial as one could get. Please note that the stands of trees on either side of the Reflecting Pool had lots and lots of people under them, taking advantage of the shade.
I shot all this shortly after 11:30 AM, when there were still people arriving.August 29, 2010 - 4:37 pm Link to this Comment
95. Joe Hill
I arrived on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial at 1:30 PM as the event was winding down. Bicycled down from the norther suburbs and late start and an angry bee combined to slow the trip. Still the crowd was enormous. Hadn't been around that many honestly employed tax payers in quite some time. Most my neighbors are either government workers or government contractors or otherwise employed mining the wealth extorted from the rest of the country by the federal government. Throw in state and county employees and the general environment towards any sort of conservatism in my neck of the wood is usually shock and horror. As a consequence most conservatives around here are pretty low profile about expressing their views not just on the job but anywhere in public, even to the extent of putting a bumper sticker on their car. Such acts of public expression aren't done lightly. And that I think is why events such as this are actually important.
The left loves to demonize people who disagree with their policies but especially those who disagree with their vision of the perfect world and that is why politics is becoming such a blood sport and why everything is getting politicized. The bottom line is it is not just the specific policies the Left and the Right disagree on but actually the whorl we should be aiming for. It is not just a question of do Keynesian economic deficit spending policies work to revive an economy in recession (generally speaking they fail miserably) but a question of does government have any business nullifying contracts and deciding who the economic winners should be when investments fail. Should government decide who gets medical treatment? Who lives and for how long and who dies? Which car dealerships should close? Which banks should go bankrupt?
We have a profound disagreement in this country over what the proper role and scope of government should be and over whose assets if anyones should be seized to promote which policies. If one side is willing to push their view despite the expressed opinion of the majority and to demonize that majority particularly when the majority are those who actually pay the taxes and more importantly have the expertise and do the actual work that allows a civil society to function then where are we? Does anyone ever notice when the government shuts down? I think not. Our politicians and government employees threaten us with this alleged calamity periodically but when they actual follow through nobody notices. Life goes on because most of what government currently does is the unspeakably to the unconnected.
This rally was a shot across the bow. A warning to advance and be recognized. The tax paying public telling the tax collecting public that it is here and aware and does not want to go where we are being led. The politicians, media, and public intellectuals who chose to ignore it do so at great peril. Too much blood, too much treasure, too much sacrifice has been invested over the last 234 years by the people on that Mall, their ancestors and their children to allow an alien and wholly secular god to be installed in the temple that is the hearts of the American people. American exceptionalism has always been based not on the question is God on our side but on the question are we on His and that is a question as old as God's Covenant with Abraham.August 29, 2010 - 5:05 pm Link to this Comment
96. Panday
James (comment #3) said:
I'm still the optimist on this site – can't help it. But it seems to me that Obama is the best thing to happen to the country since Jimmy Carter.
I'm not quite so optimistic.
If history shows us anything, then it's apparent that we've just had irreparable damage done to the country via the Stimulus and Obamacare. Consider the following points:
-All federal entitlement programs always grow larger while always going bankrupt
-Federal entitlement programs never go away. Ever.
-Just three entitlement programs, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, account for nearly 60% of the federal budget already. Now Obamacare has entered the fold (see my first point about entitlements)
-If the Republicans take both the House and the Senate this November, they won't be able to overcome Obama's veto pen- a pen which I predict Obama will use out of spite, regardless of how much harm it might cause.
-For the Republicans to undo any of these entitlements, they would have to 1) control the White House, 2) have a majority in the House, 3) have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and 4) have members both conservative and gutsy enough to side with those who want to cut entitlements.
I'm reminded of Bulwiyf's battle with the Wendol Mother in "The 13th Warrior". The two combatants faced off in a cave- Buliwyf with his sword, and the Wendol Mother with a talon dipped in some kind of poison. Buliwyf cut off her head, but not before she gave him a scratch with the poison. By the end of the final battle, the poison had killed him.
Obama and the Democrats may be defeated in November, and even again in 2012. But they are the Wendol Mother to the Republican Buliwyf. The poison of Obamacare, and other federal entitlements, is just now hitting the United States. As with Buliwyf, America's demise will be fait accompli.
Get used to it, because it will result in some awful times in the coming years.August 29, 2010 - 5:54 pm Link to this Comment
97. ScenarioA
You were entirely correct in your initial analysis – your error at 89 was your failure to recognize a well executed dog whistle. Dog whistles work because decent folks tend to give the benefit of a doubt to awkward constructions, as you did in 89.
Unsk@87 cracked Crook's code:
"Crook is saying that Beck's inner message was known to be pleasingly racist to the crowd despite the lack of overt racist language or content. It 's like saying the outward appearances of these tea partiers are harmless enough, but we of the hallowed elite all know that this rabble of ungovernable bitter clingers are scary dangerous racists deep down anyway, once you strip away the smiles and flags from those grandmothers and children."August 29, 2010 - 5:56 pm Link to this Comment
98. Tony
Whoa! I seem to remember that McKiernan requested 40-60,000 troops from Bush in 2008, Bush sent 20,000, left the rest to his successor. SecDef Gates forgets 2008 in today's NYT – in the "news" section! In For Obama … War as a Distraction we read overruled Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and sent 21,000 more troops. "Both he and I frankly thought at that point we were done," Mr. Gates recalled. Within months, though, General McChrystal asked for 40,000 more troops. "I certainly was surprised when General McChrystal came in with the request," he said, "and I think the president was as well."
Hmm, does the Internet go back to 2008? Here's the HuffPo from way back then, perhaps they were the only ones who remembered that President Bush only partially fulfilled the troop increase in Afghanistan, leaving the final decision to his successor President. But to have SecDef Gates quoted in today's NYT ignoring stuff that even readers of HuffPo knew? Huh?
HuffPo Dec 2008 reports Afghanistan Could See 30,000 New US Troops Next Year, ADM Mullen in Dec. 2008: "….So some 20,000 to 30,000 is the window of overall increase from where we are right now," he told a news conference at a U.S. base in Kabul. "We certainly have enough forces to be successful in combat, but we haven't had enough forces to hold the territory that we clear."
Still, the amazing confirmation in today's NYT of the most horrifying view of Obama's respect for his role as Commander in Chief is truly startling: "Our Afghan policy was focused as much as anything on domestic politics," the adviser said. "He would not risk losing the moderate to centrist Democrats in the middle of health insurance reform and he viewed that legislation as the make-or-break legislation for his administration." … "There have only been a few moments when he's tried to focus the nation's attention on Afghanistan because, quite frankly, it's competing with the other priorities,"….
This is the NYT blithely describing the President of the United States during wartime. Stunning, eh?August 29, 2010 - 5:58 pm Link to this Comment
99. Tony
Bogie Wheel @ 94 – Thank you, sir! Whoo-hoo!August 29, 2010 - 6:22 pm Link to this Comment
100. TmjUtah
I think the primary reason the Restoring Honor event was a success is that a majority of average Americans see a critical struggle ahead and would like to see it dealt with without a war. But if it comes to it, they'll be there for that, too.
Just a my two cents.August 29, 2010 - 6:24 pm Link to this Comment
101. PA Cat
bogie wheel #94
Thank you from this corner too for posting the photos and video. Apropos of the crowd size— as they say in the Pennsylfawnisch Muttersproch, Oi gevalt! (Uff da! for you Minnesota types.) Wish I could have been there, but I'm under doctor's (and PT guy's) orders to avoid overstressing a bum ankle by walking huge distances. A video like yours is the next best thing. And no need to apologize for the lack of fancy photography or sound gimmicks– plain and simple is always good.August 29, 2010 - 6:43 pm Link to this Comment
102. Dymphna
Perhaps I was wearing my Wretchard hat for a change?
It made me look at the Glenn Beck event within the larger contezt of a long tradition in American history: the Great Awakenings.
Beck is now part of that. Martin Luther King, Jr. was also.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/08/history-lesson-on-americas-spiritual.htmlAugust 29, 2010 - 6:49 pm Link to this Comment
103. Guessed
Off topic or maybe not: Has anyone seen a picture posted of the Mall AFTER everyone from the rally had left? I wonder if it was another "leave no trace behind" crowd like the 9/12 rally, or whether it looked as bad as it did after the Obama inauguration?
Actually, I am kidding. I don't really wonder.August 29, 2010 - 7:22 pm Link to this Comment
104. Skip_this_post
My theory is that it's iconoclasm ( Meaning the smashing of Icon).
Art and Religion are heavily intertwined. Humans have always been religious animals. Thousands of years ago, Religion was invented to explain the inexplicable. There is always a certain percentage of humans that are incapable of conceptualizing. So those had to have pictures made so they could 'see' what they couldn't conceptualize. Art was invented.
As Humans became more sophisticated, so did their Religion, which meant their art had to become more advanced also. Stone age parallel processing.
Eventually religion progressed to the point where monotheism developed. Since there was now only one god, there was no need for depicting the various gods and therefore no need to help those non-conceptualizing humans tell them apart. Of the 3 surviving monotheisms, Islam forbids ALL representation of the human form, under the logic that if humans are created in the image of god, then showing an image of a human is the same as showing the image of god. Not sure about the Jews, but I think they have a similar prohibition. Christians never quite made up their minds. The heavy pagan influence on Christianity tended to create a LOT of art ( Icons) that was religious themed. At certain periods in the Christian history, these icons were destroyed in what can only be described as riotous moments.
Humanity is still a work in progress and Religion is slowly being replaced by politics as the major source of public involvement.
There are still a lot of people that have problems conceptualizing, only today there is no need for cave art. We have the MSM.
Which makes them the modern version of an Icon. So what Beck is doing is the 21st century version of iconoclasm. The public is in the process of breaking open the temples and smashing the Icons.
As evidence I offer Dan Rather.
Anyway, to paraphrase Mr. Marx; 'that's my theory and I'm sticking to it until another one comes along'.August 29, 2010 - 7:29 pm Link to this Comment
105. Kinuachdrach
Panday @ 96: "If history shows us anything, then it's apparent that we've just had irreparable damage done to the country via the Stimulus and Obamacare."
The damage was started long before Obama. See Wilson; see FDR. And the damage has been allowed to fester for many years. Nixon, God bless him, was the guy who gave us the EPA — which may have been the poisoned quill that ensured eventual economic failure. Obama is trying to do harm, for sure, but he looks threatening only because he stands on the shoulders of giants.
The good news is that the damage is real, but not irreparable. It won't be easy, but the damage will ultimately be overcome and the human race will move forward again. Maybe without the US. Certainly without the Democrats.August 29, 2010 - 7:54 pm Link to this Comment
106. Josh
Wilson and FDR? How about Rousseau and Marx?
How about Greenspan, Goldman Sachs, AIG, Citibank?
Obambus may be the biggest boob, but hey, that's his excuse, what's all of theirs?August 29, 2010 - 8:08 pm Link to this Comment
107. Ann
After reading twice, I think the rally had a bit of the same effect on Mr. Crook as it did the posters here who attended. If you read the piece from a "we must frame the narrative" mindset Mr. Crook may have strayed. Perhaps more important than what he wrote today will be what he writes in the coming weeks.August 29, 2010 - 8:12 pm Link to this Comment
108. Larry Sheldon
103. Guessed
I have a copy of the only one I have found at http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1817479203&v=wall&story_fbid=142833742420752&ref=mf
I have seen several text mentions including one of people passing out trash bags they had brought with them before it all started.August 29, 2010 - 8:26 pm Link to this Comment
109. Charles
36. Charles
The big thing about Beck is not so much his Mormonism as the theological change he had to make in order to exit Mormonism.
I've been doing some reading since I wrote this and I see no evidence that Beck has left the Mormon church. The only
evidence that I have that he has left the Mormon church is that he has said some things about Jesus — specifically — that Jesus is fully man and fully God– that are very unMorman.
However, just now I cannot find these kinds of quotes online.
So I'm going to have to back off on 36.August 29, 2010 - 8:29 pm Link to this Comment
110. Pascal
attempt 4 Finally!
I'm with those (from the very start had I been able to post) who think that Mr. Crook has now varied from the narrative.
Let us hope — no pray — that things have not yet gone so far that he may be forced to endure experiences similar to that of outer party member Winston Smith. Mr. Crook showed a hint of humanity toward that little girl and more than a touch of hostility towards well-healed party members. Sentimentality is not tolerated, unforgivable by the inner party.
Ann @107: It would not matter to Mr. Crook's fate were he to return to the narrative in the coming weeks. The inner party would not see his performance as Wretchard initially did — as an intentional ambiguity, and thus fitting in with "duckspeak." They will see it as we hope it was.
So Mr Crook has nothing to regain but his humanity at this point. Again, let us pray that he continues in this new view in the coming weeks.August 29, 2010 - 8:46 pm Link to this Comment
111. Chad
For good or ill, truth happens sooner or later. What matters is when and who. The facts never merit the time.
- ChadAugust 29, 2010 - 8:49 pm Link to this Comment
112. Larry Sheldon
109. Charles
Couple of things–and I don't know that I know how to fit them either.
I am not a Roman Catholic and I am not a Mormon.
I have been around both quite a lot.
I don't have any idea how he has resolved the issues, but I am pretty sure it is not any of my business.
What is my business to the extent that he has made it public is that he is a Mormon, was raised a (presumed Roman) Catholic).
If he didn't say the former yesterday he said it the day before. I don't remember where he said the latter–it has been a while.
And in his teaching he has said that the early founders were of a broad spectrum beliefs, some that did not claim to be Christians (Jews, agnostics, atheists, Deists (which apparently did not mean then what it means now–philosophy is one my weakest subjects), some that claimed to be Christians but were not accepted as such (like Mormons and other modern groups today).
Mormons are not the only ones guilty of the Arian heresy.
He says that with all of that there was agreement on things that came from the Judeo-Christian traditions (dating back to Mosaic Law) and the foundation is indeed Christian or Judeo-Christian.
What I am driving at is that he seems comfortable with all people of faith being qualified to govern (including, I think Muslims which are said I think to be "people of the Book" like the rest of us).
He seems quite comfortable with the notion that some people of faith do not agree on all of the details. It might be telling to listen to his speech at Liberty University where very early he said (quoting from memory, be gentle with errors) "I want you to understand that your invitation t me was not an endorsement of your faith, but I also want you to understand that my being here is an endorsement of yours."
I was baptized as a child in a Methodist church–I attended Lutheran, Baptist (I forget what all actually), but most of my life I was a Presbyterian–with whom I ad some serious differences of opinion, but on balance it was not worse that any of the other places I'd been.
In my 20′s there were several unfortunate events that ended up with me deciding there was not in the Plan for Salvation that required organized religion.
Which is a good thing because the Presbyterians have in my view have wandered hopelessly off of the Path.
I have for a lot of years been married to a cradle Episcopalian who is now an Episcopal Deacon. I have joined that church and have been a Vestryman, but I am getting increasingly uncomfortable with where they are going. At 71, I'm not sure it matters–my course is pretty well set.
The point–I can understand somebody saying "I am a —–" and believing it, but being able to allow slack for differences.August 29, 2010 - 9:13 pm Link to this Comment
113. Larry Sheldon
On another tangent….
I listened to and watched all of the Friday night program (I hope Rabbi Lapin can find a way to release a transcript of his words) and Saturdays–some of each several times.
I did not hear a single word that I would describe as hateful or angry.
I have listened to samples of the Sharpton program and every sample has sounded hateful and angry–including one passage that quoted the very same words as heard at the Mall meeting.
There is message in there someplace.August 29, 2010 - 9:20 pm Link to this Comment
114. batman
@96 Panday: Sadly, I agree with you. It will take more than a generation to reverse and repair the damage.
@98 Tony: I don't think we have ever had a President who was so careless and uncaring about our security or our military. In an article from Naked Capitalist, that argues that we cannot inflate our way out of crisis: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/03/guest-post-we-cant-inflate-our-way-out-of-the-debt-crisis-so-what-can-we-do.html
the article contains the following disturbing section:
"Why aren't our government "leaders" talking about slashing the military-industrial complex, which is ruining our economy with unnecessary imperial adventures?" and also the following:
"Stopping all wars which are not absolutely essential for the protection of the United States from massive and imminent attack is crucial."
This will be the mantra of the Dem's. They will starve the military using the justification of balancing the budget.
The plan is simple and clear, but most don't have the eyes to see it.
1. Centralize all aspects of the economy you can.
2. Create enormous deficits.
3. "Pay" for the deficits with increased taxes.
4. "Pay" for deficits by cutting the military.
5. Insult our traditional allies and kowtow to our traditional adversaries.
6. Redefine the Constitution or simply ignore it.
7. Weaken the dollar and lead to its ultimate destruction.
8. Subvert the Department of Justice.
9. Steal elections.
10.America becomes just another geographic location and loses its exceptionalism.
To reverse this will require a level of awareness and a willingness to persevere that is hard to locate in the era of MTV, ADD, and MSM. We would need a Churchill to articulate the challenge.
None of the foregoing overrules the kind of actions Papa Ray advocates or the wonderful advice W, Boogie, Blert, Skip_this_Post, and so many others give on this amazing site. It is just that I don't expect 2010 or even 2012 to be anything more than the prelude to the beginning of the overture to the first movement of what will be needed to restore what we are in the midst of losing.August 29, 2010 - 9:30 pm Link to this Comment
115. Alexis
Speaking of "dog whistles", the Cordoba House could be regarded as an architectural dog whistle aimed at an Islamist audience.
Moreover, some attorneys may see a constitutional objection to the Cordoba House mosque on the basis of Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire – the "fighting words" exception to the First Amendment.
The basic problem with megamosques is that they are less about providing a location for prayer than they are about advertising the power and importance of "Islam" to the neighborhood. They are about enforcing an architectural motif and a regular rhythm of a "call to prayer" that shows everybody that Muslims are in charge. These megamosques are about Saudi Arabia and Iran staking out territory as if they were two dogs marking territory.
Imagine if Nazi Germany had built thoroughly Nazified "Lutheran Churches" throughout America during the 1930's. Imagine if the Soviet Union had built a series of temples to Marxism in the United States on the basis of "religious liberty". Imagine antebellum Japan had built an archipelago of Shinto shrines throughout the United States that were centers of Japanese espionage, proselytizing, and nationalism.
Perhaps the United States should find means to block hostile states (and possibly even foreign states) from building religious structures. It is not religious freedom with tyrannical regimes use their money to fund temples to their own power; religious freedom becomes corrupted by money from any government. For that matter, all government funding of sectarian institutions should be shunned as a government intrusion into the workings of a church; the question is whether certain forms of secularism constitute sects.August 29, 2010 - 11:41 pm Link to this Comment
116. Ari Tai
Curious location for the comment. Dupont Circle isn't (just) mostly white while posturing itself as a classier "K street":
….The Dupont Circle neighborhood, which forms one of the primary centers of the Washington, DC, gay scene, is named….
Maybe Mr. Crook was making an inside joke.
Could it be those that demand tolerance are the least?August 30, 2010 - 12:14 am Link to this Comment
117. Karen Yvonne
bogie wheel #67: I will leave it to the better theologians on this board to parse the ways in which Biblical counsel is to be differentiated between individuals and nations when it comes to passages describing repentance and redemption.
I'm not one of those better theologians but your comment does put me in mind of one theology that declares: individuals are judged after their life in this world is over but, as nations cannot be judged in the hereafter, they are judged in this world.
I don't often get a chance to tune into either Beck's radio or TV show but I am of course aware that he has done a stupendous job of exposing what the MSM ignores and I agree with him when he says that our problem at its root is a spiritual one. Still, I confess I do wonder where his newfound religious fervor is going to lead and how that will play out. I'm no expert on Mormonism but one thing I do know… it's not orthodox Christianity.
If he has chosen to be a Mormon, far be it from me to criticize… still, I kinda wish he would have just kept things on the political plane, because – and maybe I'm wrong here – his message sort of sounds like: we've got to restore the nation, then God will be good to us again.August 30, 2010 - 1:05 am Link to this Comment
118. Dkross
Misquote of John Donne's poem — left out to Send not TO know….August 30, 2010 - 3:44 am Link to this Comment
119. Karen Yvonne
To add to my #117 -
IOW, much as I would love to see the country restored to its original founding as a constitutional republic ruled with the consent of the governed, it is not the purpose of Christianity to ensure the survival of America. I don't think that Christianity ought to be used that way and I hope that I'm misreading Glenn Beck. The purpose of Christianity is to save souls for eternity for God and Christ. The purpose of the Glenn Beck rally was to save the comfortable America that we thought we were living in until we woke up one day and suddenly discovered everything was upside-down. It wasn't sudden, not sudden at all, but one could be forgiven for assuming it was sudden due to the lateness of the hour when huge numbers at long last are galvanized into action. Where were they before? Busy living their lives, is the usual explanation. For decades, too busy with their own affairs to stop the gathering strength of the destroyers.
Our problem is that we already arrived at the point where we could elect an Obama and could install one-party leftists in both houses of Congress. If we were still a country of majority Bible-literate and Bible-believing Christians (albeit with some tolerated and unmolested non-believing minorities in our midst), we would have no problem at all defending against the Islamist. It would be easy. We would have no problem at all with securing our borders. That would be a no-brainer too. We would have no problem taking out the mad mullahs' nukes. And we certainly wouldn't have any kind of phenomenon like massive PC brainwashing to deal with. We'd never have fallen for the AGW hysteria. Gaia-worshipers would still be what they used to be – a lunatic fringe, not architects of public policy.
I'm not saying that repentence is useless, just that it's not likely to happen at a Restoring Honor Rally, no matter how well-attended.
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad people showed up in great numbers. Better late than never. I'm not saying the rally was in vain – maybe it's not too late. I just hope I'm wrong about Beck attempting to enlist the aid of Christianity for the really important goal of saving America – which, of course IS important but… I just wish he would've stuck to the political.August 30, 2010 - 3:46 am Link to this Comment
120. bogie wheel
still, I kinda wish he would have just kept things on the political plane, because – and maybe I'm wrong here – his message sort of sounds like: we've got to restore the nation, then God will be good to us again.
I don't think his message is quite that, Karen.
He makes a couple of distinctions. The first is, let's not try to get God on our side; let's be on God's side.
The second is, restoring honor starts at home, in your personal life, living out honor in front of your kids and your neighbors. There will be no national restoration of honor if it does not happen on the individual level.
The third is, he really does come back to God as the author or American liberty, again & again & again. Which is not so much that "if we get our act together, God will be good to us" so much as it is, submission to God is where it all *begins.* THEN you see what happens. But unless and until you submit to God, everything else if futile.
And the fourth is, "we've got nothing left." ie there are no human solutions, we have exhausted ourselves, and the problems are too great. Beck has said that he does not see any politician or any human on the horizon who can solve this. Please note the anti-messianic-figure nature of this POV. Don't go looking to people for relief; don't go looking to people to be great and perfect; look to God. At the same time, Beck is not anti-leadership. He believes that a George Washington or an Abraham Lincoln might still be in our future, but that such a person or people will ONLY be raised up by God AFTER we have returned to Him and submitted to Him. I get the impression that Beck sees this era and generation as similar (please God, let it be so, he would add) to that of the preacher George Whitefield, i.e. the spiritual ground for liberty, the spiritual training for liberty, is to be done now, and the George Washingtons will come from the next generation. A process, in other words. But a process that does not, and never has, come from humans, but from God.
I hope that's a fair and accurate summary of what Beck has been saying.August 30, 2010 - 3:57 am Link to this Comment
121. bogie wheel
Karen @ 119 -
I agree, Christianity should not be used as a means to an end of saving "America" if "America" equals "our comfortable way of life."
But what if "America" means "an instrument of God's purpose in the affairs of men" and what if you believe that purpose is intimately bound up with liberty? Christianity is not so much a means to *that* end, as much as it is part of the package … living a life submitted to God, for God's purpose, both as individuals and as a nation.
Is it not then incumbent upon us as Americans to preserve or, as it has come to, restore our individual lives and to place our nation before and under God so that it can continue to be that instrument of purpose?
Material goods & prosperity, even domestic tranquility, are not the goal. They may or may not be an incidental result of living a life submitted to God. ("In this world you WILL have tribulation ….") But one thing is certain, chasing material goods & prosperity will lead you away from, not towards, the one true God. And unless and until you orient yourself back to God, nothing else will ever be right.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who may catch "religious fervor" because they see their formerly affluent (certainly by world standards) individual lives, and the affluence of the country as a whole, slipping away. Some of these people may have been at Restoring Honor.
But it was not primarily a "God, please give us back our stuff" rally. And from what I have gathered, that is not what Beck's message boils down to. Although I will say that when he speaks to parents, he will say, "Do this, fight this, now, so your kids don't have to." Whether you read that as a restoration primarily of "stuff" or as a restoration of character is, I suppose, your own interpretation. But I don't think it's inherently misguided to address parents' hopes and fears for their children and grandchildren, and to recognize that, yeah, those concerns will involve whether their kids & grandkids will be materially impoverished. I think that's only human.
But it's not about the stuff, at least I don't think it is, for a lot of people. Mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, I get the feeling that many of us are preparing ourselves to fall on our swords so to speak. If I had to choose between McMansions & SUVs surviving and liberty surviving, gee ….? Or let's get even more radically stripped down than that. The lifestyle of America in 1900, while not something any of us would desire to live in or have our kids live in if it's a only choice between then and the last 20-30 years in America, BUT, America 1900 is infinitely preferable to the lifestyle of, say, Cuba or Venezuela or Zimbabwe 2010, or Soviet Union 1970.August 30, 2010 - 4:19 am Link to this Comment
122. Skip_this_post
"Our problem is that we already arrived at the point where we could elect an Obama and could install one-party leftists in both houses of Congress."
I see that as evidence not of failure on the part of American voters but proof of P.T. Barnum's adage that you can fool ALL the people some of the time. In 64 days we will find out if he was correct about not being able to fool all the people all the time. I already know you can fool some of the people all the time. It is called a reality show.August 30, 2010 - 4:54 am Link to this Comment
123. bogie wheel
Our problem is that we already arrived at the point where we could elect an Obama and could install one-party leftists in both houses of Congress. If we were still a country of majority Bible-literate and Bible-believing Christians (albeit with some tolerated and unmolested non-believing minorities in our midst), we would have no problem at all defending against the Islamist. It would be easy. We would have no problem at all with securing our borders. That would be a no-brainer too. We would have no problem taking out the mad mullahs' nukes. And we certainly wouldn't have any kind of phenomenon like massive PC brainwashing to deal with. We'd never have fallen for the AGW hysteria. Gaia-worshipers would still be what they used to be – a lunatic fringe, not architects of public policy.
I'm not saying that repentence is useless, just that it's not likely to happen at a Restoring Honor Rally, no matter how well-attended.
A couple things:
1) The lives of nations, like the lives of individuals, seem to have seasons. With some the trajectory is just one cycle: they start small, grow powerful, then crash & burn, at which point they are either consumed by their neighbors or continue small again, permanently. But with a few countries the trajectory can be multi-cycle. Look at Japan, in just the 20th century alone. There were at least two cycles of international dominance, in the 1930s/1940s and the 1970s/1980s. Japan 2010 isn't Japan 1985, and it has a serious demographic problem, so we'll have to see what comes next. But the point is, multi-cycle does occur.
The question is whether America is a monocycle or a multi-cycle nation. The power the United States wielded and sustained in the 20th century was astounding, and it may well be that that particular level of influence will never come again, regardless of whether we prove to be a monocycle or multi-cycle nation.
So when you say, "we already arrived at the point where we could elect an Obama …" it is an accurate statement up to a point, and that point is, it is not a guarantor of the future. We don't know what the future holds. So you can't use "spiritual condition of America 2010″ (exeedingly degraded, I will be the first to say) to predict with absolute certainty what the spiritual condition of America will be in 2015, 2020, 2030, or 2050. The only guide we have in this situation is, are national revivals possible? Is there evidence of them happening in the past, anywhere? The answer is yes. There have been at least three, some say four, Great Awakenings in America. If you say that "it can't happen again, we're too far gone" then you are binding not man but God. And binding God thus is not possible. "The Spirit blows where it will."
2) As for repentance not happening at a Restoring Honor rally, I think that's kind of a straw man argument. First off, there's the obvious … Beck is not a preacher and hasn't claimed to be. He didn't do an altar call. But the larger issue is, national revivals, and specifically the Great Awakenings in American history, have never been one-and-done things. They did not start and end in a single day at a single event.
I've already read at least a couple posts on other boards by the mockers, "Where were the miracles? Guess God skipped the rally!" Yada yada yada. As if anything but whirling lights in the sky or lack of brimstone on the Capitol consigns the event immediately to the Epic Fail dustbin of history. Whatever. There will always be mockers. And they are not worth trying to convince.
It's the people in the middle whom I do not want to get discouraged, when they don't see 20 million Americans giving up their cocaine habit, or Obama dumping Martha's Vineyard for Billy Graham's house, the day after Restoring Honor.
The truth is, even if there are signs, we will almost certainly not recognize them at the time. That's the pattern, isn't it? You can only identify these things via hindsight.
So I can't say for certain whether Restoring Honor was/is a spiritually significant event, a sign or catalyst or what have you of God moving the hearts of Americans.
I just know that I'm not going to dismiss it.
This is the country of religious nuts, after all. It's a grand American tradition to stare up at the sky and look for, nay, expect, that great fiery chariot, yes?August 30, 2010 - 5:13 am Link to this Comment
124. Orinocle
WHite folks in our nation resent uppity negroes and wild colored folks….The idea that 250,000 white bigots gathered is never a newsflash for Black folks an alert yes but never a surprise given our country's twisted racist legacy..August 30, 2010 - 5:28 am Link to this Comment
125. maz2
"Liberal Iggy, sources say, O's Harvard buddy has Coyned a new scandal:
Full coverage TBA on CBC."
"Is There Nothing That Obama Can't Do?"
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2010/08/we-are-in-really-deep-trouble.htmlAugust 30, 2010 - 5:41 am Link to this Comment
126. Doug
'7 Ways Liberals Plan to Ruin Your Life.'
Your book is subtitled '7 Ways Liberals Plan to Ruin Your Life.' Give me the topic heads of the 7 ways and do you think that liberals are intentionally seeking to ruin people's lives or doing so out of misguided ideology –and does the distinction even matter?
Liberals, I argue in the book, are seeking to increase the power of government over individuals to control 1) our movement, 2) our retirement income, 3) our health care, 4) our private property, 5) our speech, 6) whether we live or die, and 7) our consciences.
If there's a distinction, it makes no difference to the victim.
The city planners of New London may have thought they were constructing a better city by seizing and bull-dozing the homes of the Fort Trumbull neighborhood, but they were nonetheless willfully ruining at least a part of the lives of the families whose homes they targeted.
I have no doubt the government-protected abortionist knows he is ruining the life of the little girl he kills — even if he is the true-believing disciple of a political creed that holds that the world would be better if we killed more babies.
Glenn Beck streams live here now.
Says CBS cites 87 thousand participants!
I calculated 87,344August 30, 2010 - 5:59 am Link to this Comment
127. wws
a bit OT for this thread, but not for this blog:
Aussie election still up in the air. Just read an analysis saying that Abbot, head of the liberal coalition, may prefer to stay in the minority and watch Labour attempt to form a government. Reasoning – whoever forms a government is going to have to deal with the 3 (or 4) independants, who are apt to be fractious and demanding, and likely to drop out and cause the government to fail if they aren't catered to enough. Since their demands in many cases are in opposition to Labour's goals, it may be politically more advantageous to watch Labour tear itself to pieces for a year trying to accomodate them, which would discredit them completely and allow the Liberal Coalition to win a majority outright in the *next* election, which would probably be called early since a minority govm't will be so hard to hold together.
In a nutshell, the idea is that whoever ends up losing the current election is guaranteed to win the next one.August 30, 2010 - 6:24 am Link to this Comment
128. Doug
Dr. Alveda King – the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., – explains why she's speaking at the Glenn Beck 8/28 rally in Washington this Saturday.
White Bigot Alveda King Speaks
"I am attending this rally to help reclaim America," she told "Good Morning America's" Ron Claiborne today from Capitol Hill. "I'm joining Glenn to talk about faith, hope, charity, honor. Those are things that America needs to reclaim. Our children need to remember to love each other how to honor each other, their parents, God and their neighbors. I agree with Glenn on all of those principles. So that's why I'm here. For me it's principles over politics."
King, who served as a Democrat in the Georgia House of Representatives from 1979 to 1981, was a keynote speaker at today's non-partisan rally, which also featured speeches from Beck and Sarah Palin.
Throughout her career King has courted controversy as an advocate for the pro-life movement. After having two abortions herself, King began speaking publicly, often at college campuses, about abortion issues. In 1996 she publicly condemned her aunt Coretta Scott King's support of abortion rights.August 30, 2010 - 6:28 am Link to this Comment
129. Pascal
Dear Wretchard,
I've got to be away today, and I so I don't have the time to the develop this thought that woke me up from my sleep.
I now think that your initial instinctive wariness concerning the attitude of Mr. Crook may have been correct.
I've had second thoughts about what I posted yesterday wherein I agreed with the others and with your own reconsideration of Crook's comments at the end of his commentary on the Restoring Honor Rally. This is even though I wrote The Battle for a Human Soul at my blog that further explains my comment at number 110.
1) The Sound of Music scene in the garden, where the Von Troppes (sp?) have been discovered by the boy interest of his oldest daughter, now Hitler Youth, Rolf(?).
2) Rolf has not yet blown the whistle, confused by the mixed signals in his head.
3) Col Von Troppe (Christopher Plummer) is hoping that he can convince Rolf to look the other way.
4) At the point where the Col thinks is right, he tells Rolf "you're not one of them, you'll never be one of them."
5) That triggers something the NAZI indoctrinators anticipated, because it's there that Rolf blows the whistle.
The writers of the Sound of Music still had the NAZI era fresh in their brains. They knew the behavior of "the people Hitler had been waiting for. " Our contemporary world of conservatives does not remember that as well as you do Wretchard. Could be because of your grittier experiences that many of us here lack.
Mr. Crook could be like Rolf there. Or even worse, he may have been mocking the sensibilities behind "Restoring Honor" (an element in your initial skepticism?) by telling that tale of the cafe denizens acting mean toward the little girl.
Being mean fits the behavior of the now gloating and brazen Ruling Class.
Yes, I think the inner party may still treat him harshly for showing a momentary spark of human decency. It would serve them well to make an example of Mr. Crook.
We BCers may be making the same mistake we in the country class tend to make too often. Viz.: Projecting our own decency, our humanity, onto our adversaries.August 30, 2010 - 6:34 am Link to this Comment
130. Charles
112. Larry Sheldon
The presbyterians drank the same arian koolaid as the other mainline denominations by way of the European Higher Criticism School. The higher criticism school became dominant in the European seminaries in the 1850′s at about the same time the atheists became dominant in the philosophy departments. In part Nietzche was talking about the goings on in his preacher father's church. Higher Criticism jumped the atlantic to the USA seminaries in all the mainline denominatinons about 1890 and became dominant by about 1930-40. J. Gresham Machen has a good book called Christianity and Liberalism that discusses this in the Presbyterian church. Pretty much that same thing happened to the other liberal denominations as well. I found it to be eye opening as I was wending my way out of the PCUSA wilderness.
The odd thing about the liberal denominations is that they don't seem to understand that their hopeless theology is at the base of their demise. The European protestant never got it either. They drank it and just died. No questions asked.August 30, 2010 - 6:38 am Link to this Comment
131. exhelodrvr
bogie wheel,
"But what if "America" means "an instrument of God's purpose in the affairs of men" and what if you believe that purpose is intimately bound up with liberty?"
It's not just coincidence that that group of people were in the same place at the same time in the (approx) 1760-1820 time frame.August 30, 2010 - 6:40 am Link to this Comment
132. Doug
The last refuge of the liberal
By C. KRAUTHAMMER
NOW WE know why the country has become "ungovernable," last year's excuse for the Democrats' failure of governance: Who can possibly govern a nation of racist, nativist, homophobic Islamophobes? Note what connects these issues. In every one, liberals have lost the argument in the court of public opinion. Majorities – often lopsided majorities – oppose President Obama's social-democratic agenda (e.g., the stimulus, Obamacare), support the Arizona law, oppose gay marriage and reject a Ground Zero mosque.
What's a liberal to do? Pull out the bigotry charge, the trump that preempts debate and gives no credit to the seriousness and substance of the contrary argument. The most venerable of these trumps is, of course, the race card. When the tea party arose, a spontaneous, leaderless and perfectly natural (and traditionally American) reaction to the vast expansion of government intrinsic to the president's proudly proclaimed transformational agenda, the liberal commentariat cast it as a mob of angry white yahoos disguising their antipathy to a black president by cleverly speaking in economic terms.August 30, 2010 - 6:52 am Link to this Comment
133. RC Power
#96 Panday
Your point that having a veto-proof House and Senate will be required to over-ride an Obama veto is germane if trying to repeal legislation. However, you overlook one very important aspect. All funding legislation must originate in the House. The House could de-fund any exceutive activites they chose and the President can not over-ride the House. If he choses to ignore de-funding by spending on defunded activities he can be subject to impeachment.August 30, 2010 - 7:02 am Link to this Comment
134. Skip_this_post
"It's not just coincidence that that group of people were in the same place at the same time in the (approx) 1760-1820 time frame."
Evidence please!
Actually, once is happenstance, twice is coincidence. The third time it's planned. So until your non-existent "god" arranges for Two more American revolutions, I'll pass on your theory.
When you think about the people that left Europe for America and the distance between the colonies and the wanna be rulers America was inevitable. The failure of the America experiment would be more along the lines of Divine intervention.
The LAST thing any religion wants is freedom for it's worshipers, after all, freedom means the freedom to not worship. Look at Islam, which is Monotheism 4.0
As the latest upgrade, it is the most intolerant version of all. Sort of a trend, don't you think?
Thankfully, religion as a social disorder is declining. Another few centuries and all religions will be classified as a treatable mental disease. After all, nobody paints themselves blue and howls at the moon to ward off evil spirits anymore, do they?
No real difference between that and a 'modern' religion. Except a few minor details and a lot of body paint.August 30, 2010 - 7:18 am Link to this Comment
135. exhelodrvr
134) Skip_this_post,
Evidence? The proof is in the pudding.
The gift is obvious. What we do with it is another thing.August 30, 2010 - 7:45 am Link to this Comment
136. Dex Quire
Dex #71, Wretchard #89;
I see it now too, Wretchard; I'll take back my flame towards Crook who was using irony to describe the friendly, non-bigoted Beck crowd. I'll stand by my point, though, that the left in general will not move on from viewing America as sunk in 1960s prejudice and reaction.August 30, 2010 - 8:22 am Link to this Comment
137. Greg
Will take your advice and skip your posts from now on, Skip. Agreeing with Marx won't earn you much credibility.
As for the Rally, I think it's a mistake to speak/write of it in isolation. Beck has been a bit of a spearhead, but last year it was Levine, for a long time it's been Rush, and before him it was Reagan and even Goldwater. What Crook is missing is not just the significance of the rally but the pervasiveness of the movement.
He and others like him are unable to understand what they're seeing in the same way that someone who is color blind is unable to understand what's being described or said by someone who sees color. The added problem is that they insist on the narcissistic defense of denying the existence of color, congregate with one another to reinforce that ignorance, and are unfortunately in charge of a lot of stuff.
I was reading about Van Morrison the other day, and in describing his use of and attraction to American music, he called America an "emotional idea," one that transcends the U.S.A. itself. That works for me. I would guess the majority of Americans see us as much more than a place or a political arena or even a source of world organization.
And what seems to confuse a lot of people is that the underpinnings of that emotional idea are explicitly Christian. Obama can try to make it not be so, but a large majority of Americans see this as a Christian nation. And it's important to process the reality (for all but the materialists) that Christianity is really the New Israel. What this means is that, although few of us are consciously aware of it, we see ourselves as the Chosen People.
No wonder the secular humanists are having trouble getting it.August 30, 2010 - 8:57 am Link to this Comment
138. Bob
It is interesting that "progressives" see Rev. King only by the color of his skin — as a black man. But he was also a Christian, and of course, a Reverend. Would the Atlantic or Washington Post dismiss a rally of progressives at the King site as being "predominantly godless"? Or, heaven forbid, "disproportionately Jewish"? It seems to me Rev. King's message was universal. And that's what's being "Taken Back". "Civil rights", "judged by the content of your character" are American values. Not a political weapon to be used to smear your political opponents.August 30, 2010 - 9:12 am Link to this Comment
139. Larry Sheldon
Dr. King and most of the SCLC were Republicans.August 30, 2010 - 9:59 am Link to this Comment
140. Ann
When I was kid I wasn't a cool kid. But I could sew. I spent a lot of time analyzing the cool kids and I would sew an outfit that I knew they would love. Outfit finished I waited until there was a herd of cool kids in one place and I would casually walk by in my new outfit and notice sly glances. They would never ask me to be cool, but it wouldn't take long until one of them "happened" to talk privately with me. Over time I saw my style sense displayed in the crowd. I think that Mr. Crook accidentally stepped out of cool and saw something he liked, or felt.
Over the weekend I saw a cool acquaintance who should have a L or P tattoo on her forehead. Normally our encounters revolve around her telling me how many grants she has written to help the disabled. There has never been a disabled person in her fancy car or at one of her black tie fundraisers but she is saving the disabled. Currently, she is all about reducing the deficit. I could actually imagine her thinking about heading for a Tea Party. Her new found cause and Mr. Crook's writing together made me suspect that what is right for the country has a chance of prevailing. We may just have to be satisfied with silence and sly glances and count on the privacy of the voting booth.August 30, 2010 - 10:04 am Link to this Comment
141. Karen Yvonne
bogie wheel @120/121/123: I have a lot of thoughts on reading your posts but don't have time right now (and probably by the time I do, this thread will be done). For now just let me say that my unthinking first impulse was, "Gosh, if the rally can draw someone like bogie wheel, then it MUST be okay!" Don't want to get all slobbery gushy here, but I do admire you a great deal.
For now suffice it to say that I would feel better about the whole Tea Party movement and its potential for efficacy if the power of no had been used multiple times at any given point during the decades-long march through the institutions, instead of only now, NOW, when our prosperity is threatened (taxed enough already). I believe you addressed that point. More could be said but time is short.August 30, 2010 - 10:16 am Link to this Comment
142. Skip_this_post
"Agreeing with Marx won't earn you much credibility."
Thank you. I have enough trouble trying to prove to liberals that a straight line is the shortest distance between 2 points.
BTW, that was Groucho Marx. But you knew that didn't you?
As long as we are on the subject, how can the ideas that underpin America be Christian when they were around and in use centuries before Christ? 'splain me that Lucy.
/dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled[dih-mok-ruh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -cies.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.
1525–35; < MF démocratie < LL dēmocratia < Gk dēmokratía popular government, equiv. to dēmo- demo- + -kratia -cracy
Ever hear of Greece? How about the Golden Age of Greece? Look at the origins of the word Democracy and see where it comes from. Invented Centuries before Christ.August 30, 2010 - 10:34 am Link to this Comment
143. Skip_this_post
"Evidence? The proof is in the pudding."
Should I file that under "Everybody in my neighborhood knows that"? I'm not a fan of pudding. No substance. How about baking a pie? Or a cake? Cookies would be good too.
I will admit that 'The proof is in the Cookies' doesn't have quite the same tone.August 30, 2010 - 10:41 am Link to this Comment
144. Peter Warner
Bogie Wheel and Larry Sheldon (et all), thank you so much for your excellent insights.
By the way, there was indeed a Divine sign at the Restoring Honor Rally: a flyover of Canadian geese perfectly timed at 10:00 am, in precise formation, flew straight down the reflecting pool.
Watch them yourself:
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s message was a religious message of repentance, forgiveness and redemption. He had his faults, but G-d spoke through him. I cannot hear his voice without beginning to cry. Glenn Beck doesn't reach that level with me (yet) but neither does he claim to. The Dr. King of this age has yet to find his voice, but G-d will indeed raise him up when the foundation is fulfilled.
Best regards, Peter Warner.August 30, 2010 - 11:38 am Link to this Comment
145. Panday
133. RC Power
Your point that having a veto-proof House and Senate will be required to over-ride an Obama veto is germane if trying to repeal legislation. However, you overlook one very important aspect. All funding legislation must originate in the House. The House could de-fund any exceutive activites they chose and the President can not over-ride the House. If he choses to ignore de-funding by spending on defunded activities he can be subject to impeachment.
Defunding Obamacare would mean a less certain death- even a temporary coma, after which it could be revived quite easily.
Repeal would be a longer lasting and more certain death for that piece of legislation.August 30, 2010 - 11:49 am Link to this Comment
146. Greg
". . . how can the ideas that underpin America be Christian when they were around and in use centuries before Christ?"
For Christianity to be anything other than a fiction, and if America and Christianity are intertwined, then the ideas underpinning both would have to have been around since the beginning.
But that point only has meaning if one thinks of Christianity as something other than the opiate of the people, which is what I thought you had implied above. If that's not what you meant or you were kidding, then I apologize for calling your comment into question.August 30, 2010 - 11:56 am Link to this Comment
147. Robert Speirs
"the ideas that underpin America were around centuries before Christ…". So was God. Have you ever read Plato's Republic? Those are the ideas that underpin Soviet Russia, not America. And if America does not want to go the way of the Roman Republic, she had better learn that freedom is found only in God.August 30, 2010 - 12:04 pm Link to this Comment
148. Larry Sheldon
Thank you, Peter.
Divine sign indeed. Especially since "they" would not allow any Military participation, not even a Color Guard.
I have seen reports of a flight of three followed the same path–variously reported as "Faith", "Hope", and "Charity" or "Father", "Son" and "Holy Ghost". What ever–they were clearly leading the way.
I dream of a sequence where a bill undoing the damage done (including some provision for protecting people who relied on the damaging law) is presented to the President, he vetoes it, Congress meets in joint session that afternoon and over-rides the veto.
Yeah, the protection thing smacks of "hair of the dog", but something will have to be done. I have never been through a 12-step program, ut I know people who have. It ain't easy, and it ain't pretty, and it can kill.
If I say "Lone Wolf Colony" will anybody know what I am talking about? Never been there, but I ave supported it in earlier lives.August 30, 2010 - 12:18 pm Link to this Comment
149. Larry Sheldon
It still exists and is still in operation. I never realized how broad-spectrum it iwas and is.
The company would support an employee who wanted to go there and dry out.August 30, 2010 - 12:22 pm Link to this Comment
150. Larry Sheldon
There are those who teach (persuasively, in my opinion) that the underpinnings of our Constitutional Republic goes back 5,000 years (CBS probably says 87 years) to Mosaic law.August 30, 2010 - 12:28 pm Link to this Comment
151. Larry Sheldon
76. Larry Sheldon
Pat Gray said this morning that there were NO arrests. For anything. I think it is pretty hard to gather 87,000 people in space like that, all crowded together, without an arrest for _something_.August 30, 2010 - 12:41 pm Link to this Comment
152. Larry Sheldon
112. Larry Sheldon
I butchered the Liberty University quote worse that working from memory accounts for.
What he said (still working from memory–I'll go see if I can find a transcript in a bit) was "I want you to understand THAT I UNDERSTAND that your invitation to me to speak here today is not an endorsement of my faith, but I want you to understand that my being here is an endorsement of yours?
I left out the "I understand"–which I think is an important part of the quote.August 30, 2010 - 12:48 pm Link to this Comment
153. blert
If you're to play the odds, then expect that at some point the 'wise' guys will spend enough to collapse the currency.
At that point outside intervention will shut down entirely vast sectors of Federal spending as a condition for re-entry into the international currency markets.
The war-fighting colonies printed the Continental Dollar. Anyone accepting it for trade was making a contribution for the cause. They sure weren't going to get their value back.
Naturally, it promptly started hyperinflating. The fledgling government had no cash taxing power to back it.
There were wealthy merchants who volunteered their silver for the cause — and ended up penniless.
The various colonies also issued notes. While some of these notes were retired during the years of Confederation, it is also true that many defaulted and floated around for generations.
At the Constitutional Convention it was plain that the money question had to be cleaned up. The various states were forbidden the right to print and coin money. Further, the new government was explicitly put on the silver standard. Gold was also acceptable, under the Constitution, for payment of government debt and expenses.
And that is how American money gained acceptability in international trade. Of course, at day zero no such specie existed. The newly reborn polity used Spanish, Austrian and British specie. Only after the California gold strike (1848) did Congress legislate against the use of non-native specie. (1853)
Bypassing the Constitution, Congress jumped from the silver standard to the gold standard in 1873. The western silver strikes were just too rich. America went from a metal shortage to a glut. What had been a 16:1 value by weight ratio plunged to 32:1.
Since the British Empire started hitting gold everywhere — her dominions went to the gold standard. The effect was to drop the interest paid on Gilts. This in turn lowered interest costs for AAA credits in the City.( London's Securities Markets)
Ultimately, this caused European capital to go overseas to get better returns. American railroads were a favorite. To an astonishing degree, the City financed American expansion.
When President Cleveland got into a bind over trade flows in the 1890s J.P. Morgan had to syndicate Treasury notes with the unheard of rate of 6% — in peace time!
America had the largest economy in the world, but still held too much risk to get a AAA rating!
To recap: when the colonies fouled up their finances and trade flows a higher power intervened and completely reset the rule book. ( Constitutional Convention )
When the Confederate States blew up their economy and lost their campaign a higher power completely reset the rule book. ( Reconstruction & Constitutional Amendments )
When the USA blows up its economy and screws up trade flows planet wide a higher power completely resets the rule book. ( Con Con II or foreign occupation )
The institution that is sick is the devolved Federal Government.
It's all checks with zero balances.August 30, 2010 - 1:18 pm Link to this Comment
154. blert
Rather like First Century Rome, Washington has managed to hyperinflate the currency in peacetime — sustaining mere skirmish wars at the periphery.
The other weird parallel is the Christian attack against Rome, the city, a religious revenge attack if their ever was one. (64 AD)
While to my mind there is no comparing the evil of First Century Rome with any modern western government — to the islamists 2001 was a jihad upon the center of power of the ultimate corporeal power.
And just as the Romans, modern Americans have to spend large to compensate.
[ The Romans lost virtually the entire city in economic terms. They'd been 'nuked.' This is the primary reason her propagandists started changing the record WRT the execution of Jesus. It was the Romans who came up with the idea of blaming the Jews for his death.
The historical fact is that the Romans NEVER considered the religious sensibilities of the Jews or any other conquered people when exercising state power. They killed him because he was deemed a state threat. They did exactly the same thing all over their empire, all of the time. Charisma was made a lethal liability.
This mentality is in full bloom in Beijing. (c.f. Falun Gong)
You can map a one to one thought pattern from 21st Century Beijing to 1st Century Rome.]
The other odd parallel is that no external power dares to openly confront either Rome or Washington. So all of the turmoil morphs into politics. When armies don't work, foreign powers turn to corrupting vainglorious politicians.
And America features a ship load of such creatures. We have the best politicians money can buy.
The average voter still operates under the assumption that our politicians are ours.
As can be seen with recent major issues the exact opposite is normally the case.
The reason is that more and more foreign money is being allowed into campaign finance. The Resident being the supreme example.
The other factor is the King of Saudi Arabia. ALL mineral wealth belongs to him. EVERY 'wealthy' Saudi gets his money from the King. Such nobles are mere cut-outs for his whims. They have NO independent judgement. They have NO way of protecting any of their wealth if they displease the Monarch what so ever.
So when you read of so and so being a charming buddy of Rupert you should immediately think of such a relationship as a money seduction by a foreign agent scarcely different than a First Directorate payoff. The 'buddy' is a direct representative for the King IN EVERYTHING HE DOES.
The King has many such players. They are all selected based on blood, loyalty and charm. Obviously, they must be fluent in the target victim's language. Just as Adolf Eichmann was selected for his knowledge of Judaism and railroads, a King's agent is always extremely knowledgeable about those whom he seeks to destroy. Naturally, his attack is performed with guile, money, deceit, charm, paper and words.August 30, 2010 - 1:19 pm Link to this Comment
155. Larry Sheldon
I stll didn't get it quite right–you should listen for yourself at http://www.therightscoop.com/video-glenn-becks-liberty-university-commencement-address
In that speech he reconciles (in my opinion) his beliefs as a Mormon and the beliefs necessary in our governance.August 30, 2010 - 1:32 pm Link to this Comment
156. maz2
"Is the Tea Party Canada-bound?
Are Canadians getting fed up with government regulations, rules and taxes? The man behind an attempt to start a Tea Party movement in Canada hopes so.
This past weekend hundreds of thousands of Americans flocked to Washington for a rally about taking back their country. They came to hear speakers such as Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, and although not explicitly a Tea Party event, the crowd drew many from the movement that calls for government to get government off the backs of hard working people.
Andrew Lawton wants to bring that spirit to Canada.
Lawton, a conservative-leaning activist from London, Ont., is one of the organizers behind an online attempt to start a Tea Party movement in Canada.
Starting with a Facebook group, Lawton says there are plans for rallies this fall in Ottawa and Quebec City. Other cities may be added." (more)
http://www.bluelikeyou.com/2010/08/30/freedom-is-our-achilles-heel/#comment-88395August 30, 2010 - 1:38 pm Link to this Comment
157. maineman
"Naturally, his attack is performed with guile, money, deceit, charm, paper and words."
So would this apply to the Hamasque Imam?August 30, 2010 - 1:46 pm Link to this Comment
158. Josh
LS @ 150: There are those who teach (persuasively, in my opinion) that the underpinnings of our Constitutional Republic goes back 5,000 years (CBS probably says 87 years) to Mosaic law.
For starters, the idea that there might be a written document that was given priority, goes back to the people of the book. Or at least, it's my understanding of the Romans that they were so impressed.
Whether this was because of divine connections or the pragmatics of arranging government in that fashion, one might further debate.August 30, 2010 - 2:03 pm Link to this Comment
159. sirius
…the devolved Federal Government.
It's all checks with zero balances.
blert, that's inspired.August 30, 2010 - 4:20 pm Link to this Comment
160. Tony
Moniker @ 58, thank you for your kind words. I was just doing my job.
I've been hanging here in the Belmont Club since Wretchard's masterful analysis of First Fallujah. I just love the crowd here, they are so classically Liberal, in the archaic archetypal free man kind of way.
I rarely have something worthy of my august and funny audience here, I had to share the day.
It was BEAUTIFUL, man!August 30, 2010 - 7:15 pm Link to this Comment
161. gadfly
#32 Tony
Glen Beck commented on the flight of the geese as well, but i liked your
beautiful description of the geese in V-formation.
"Just before the Pledge, a V of geese flew low and fast over the Pool, toward Lincoln, like the jets over the Super Bowl, eliciting a roar of loud applause from the crowd. Two old guys near me smiled to each other, one said "who arranged that?" and the other guy wordlessly answered, pointing to the sky.
God bless America."
I came back to this Wretchard thread because I had visited Crazy Chucky over at LGF to see how off-the-wall he and his minions are about the rally. As you might guess, he has a Media Matters video ridiculing what Beck's said about this very skein of geese. Glenn called it "God's fly-over." I will not contaminate this site with a link to LGF but the leftist filth is there to look over if you are not squeamish and you cannot find the Beck video elsewhere.August 30, 2010 - 8:29 pm Link to this Comment
162. Larry Sheldon
I can imagine going after a noseeum on my nose with a double-bitted ax before I can imagine deliberately looking at LGF,Andi Sullivan or Levi Johnston (has anybody ever seen all three of them in the same room at the same time?).August 30, 2010 - 9:00 pm Link to this Comment
163. Pascal
I cleaned up what I posted at 129 early this morning before I rushed out the door.
And What If That Soul Is Really Lost?
Among the things I added was a snippet from CS Lewis that ought to rattle all of us. What if Mr Crook intended to mislead us to raise our hopes because he displayed that shred of common human decency? It could well be a ploy of our Conditioners, and as our wizened host's initial instincts saw, it really is a mocking — as in feigning all our good inclinations — to drive another cynical nail into our sensibilities. IOW, he may well be lost to his Conditioning. In which case, we must let him just go.
CS Lewis spoke in 1943 of Conditioners. "The process which, if not checked, will abolish Man goes on apace among Communists and Democrats no less than among Fascists." Destroying our sense of decency is an utmost in that goal.August 31, 2010 - 12:34 am Link to this Comment
164. SpeakEasy
40. Josh : Good doctors do not just regurgitate information, they make decisions based on their understanding of how the human body works. And they most definitely do create new processes and procedures based on that understanding and fresh thinking. I personally have not been bled lately for a fever. Progressives, likewise, are not good "students" (IMHO) because they are unable to make logical conclusions based on fact. They can only follow, not lead.
And with respect, I think you are being distracted by Glenn Beck the same way the progressives have been. The purpose of the rally was remembering and examining the words and wisdom of Dr. Martin Luther King J., not a "I love Glenn Beck" rally. If you asked enough people who attended, I would imagine that would be the self-described reason. That was the way it was advertised even by Beck.
46. Skip_this_post : Maybe Crook was making it up. I think you had to be there to know what was happening.
Uh, no. Crook included this observation to make a point. I don't think he did so as an exercise in existential thought. It sounds to me like a compare and contrast moment. Mileage may vary.
The problem we all seems to be having with Crook stems from the apparent loss of ability to WRITE PLAINLY. Modern journalists seem incapable of reporting facts clearly. Obfuscation seems to be the new journalistic style so, just like politicians, they can justify their words to mean whatever the wind tells them.August 31, 2010 - 11:09 am Link to this Comment
165. Mad Fiddler
Back in the ancient and remote 1960′s I heard some conservative on the TV declare that if the commies invaded they would have to murder a third of the US population to be able to impose their form of government.
I remember thinking as an 11-year-old kid, "Only a THIRD?"
Same deal for the progressives, and they just seem to be awakening to the cold reality that they don't have either the numbers or the passive sheep they used to take for granted.
p.s. to Subotai – you are missed. Hope things are clearing up and your family and loved ones are doing ok.August 31, 2010 - 1:23 pm Link to this Comment
166. Dr. Mabuse
163 Pascal: There's another quote by C.S. Lewis, though, that's also worth considering:
" Suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper. Then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not be quite true, or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one's first feeling, 'Thank God, even they aren't quite so bad as that,' or is it a feeling of disappointment, and even a determination to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies as bad as possible? If it is the second then it is, I am afraid, the first step in a process which, if followed to the end, will make us into devils. You see, one is beginning to wish that black was a little blacker. If we give that wish its head, later on we shall wish to see grey as black, and then to see white itself as black. Finally, we shall insist on seeing everything–God and our friends and ourselves included–as bad, and not be able to stop doing it: we shall be fixed for ever in a universe of pure hatred."August 31, 2010 - 3:39 pm Link to this Comment
167. Pascal
Dr. Mabuse. Interestingly, in my own way I addressed Mr. Lewis's concern in "And What If That Soul Is Really Lost?" where I speak of a need for balance.
But first, In Mr. Lewis' analogy, we had evidence that posed the question, and we had a choice of accepting that evidence or clinging to the original story.
In my case, I returned to Wretchard's initial cautionary opinion, having to admit that I may have been too Pollyanna in my own opinion towards Mr. Crook. I did that was even though I was surrounded by opinions that agreed with me.
We humans tend not to admit our errors in judgment, and that surely has something to do with what generates the hatred of which Lewis warned. If unthinking hatred is bad, surely hatred that stems from vanity is even worse. Here I went against my own vanity and thought of the danger's posed by not sharing with fellow BCers my second thoughts.
I switched my opinion because of my concern about the now openly scornful behavior of our Conditioners — something which Lewis was so concerned over, he not only published his three exhorting lectures as in one bound volume, he wrote a three-part novel to bring the threat alive.
We need to seek the rational precisely because our Conditioners have built a educational system designed to incline us toward the irrational.
Now here is what I wrote regarding our need for balance.
"What I'm talking about today is our need to think twice before will succumb to our earnest desire to project our decency on they who are not (do unto others as thou would have done to thee) so as to better balance that with our need to reward and withhold reward based on merit. For where we are too lax in maintaining the balance, we should not be surprised to find ourselves up to our eyeballs in a muck that is the consequences of demerit after demerit overlooked."August 31, 2010 - 4:58 pm Link to this Comment
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