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The Korean capital of SEOUL (서울) is an assault on the senses. Even small streets find themselves quite alive with frenzied activity by day and searing neon after sunset, while eardrums are set pounding by clamouring shop assistants and the nighttime thump of a thousand karaoke rooms. Restaurants serving Korea's delectably spicy national dishes lure you in with their amazing aromas and tastes while doing minimal damage to your figure (or wallet), and for tactile bliss, the hot pools and ice rooms of the ubiquitous jjimjilbang bathhouses have no equal. With over twenty million souls packed sardine-like into a metropolitan area smaller than Luxembourg, this is one of the most densely populated places on the planet, but for all its nonstop consumption, Seoul is also a place of considerable tradition and history. Joseon-dynasty palaces, displayed like medals in the centre of the city, proclaim its status as a seat of regal power from as far back as 1392; the tiled roofs of wooden hanok houses gently fish-scale their way towards the ash-coloured granite crags of Bukhansan, the world's most-visited national park; the ancient songs and dances of farmhands and court performers are still clashed out in a whirligig of sound and colour along the street of Insadonggil. A city with a hyper-efficient transport system, a negligible crime rate, locals eager to please foreign guests and an almost astonishing wealth of locally produced modern art: it's little wonder that so many visitors come away so impressed.
Top of most tourists' agendas are the half-a-dozen sumptuous palaces dating from the late fourteenth century that surround the city centre; these include Gyeongbokgung and Changdeokgung, together with the nearby ancestral shrine of Jongmyo. Situated in the middle is Insadong; by far the most popular part of the city with tourists, its warren of tight streets is littered with traditional restaurants, quaint tearooms, art galleries and trinket shops, and makes for a great wander. Samcheongdong and Bukchon Hanok Village are two areas offering similar delights, though with fewer tourists. The amount of art on display in all three areas can come as quite a surprise – contemporary Korean work receives a fraction of the international press devoted to art from Japan or China, but is just as creative. Also offering a modern-day fusion of Korea old and new are the colossal markets of Dongdaemun and Namdaemun, in whose sprawling reaches you'll find anything from pig intestines to clip-on ties. The more modern facets of the city can be seen in the shoppers' paradise of Myeongdong or achingly fashionable Apgujeong, while the number of American soldiers hanging out in cosmopolitan Itaewon hint at Seoul's proximity to North Korea – it's even possible to take a day-trip to the border.
To get a sense of what makes Seoul so unique, however, you'll need to do more than tick off the sights. To truly appreciate the subtle facets of this distinctive society, take a leap of faith into the local cuisine, follow the Korean lead on a wild night (and early morning) out, and spend a decent amount of time simply walking the streets.
Brief history
Contrary to the expectations of many a visitor, Seoul possesses a long and interesting past; after first rising to prominence at the beginning of the Three Kingdoms period, it was then ruled over by almost every major power in Korean history. In 18 AD, then named Wiryeseong, it became the first capital of the Baekje kingdom; the exact location is believed to be a site just east of present-day Seoul, but this was to change several times. The kings and clans were forced far south to Gongju in 475, having been squeezed out by the rival Goguryeo kingdom; less than a century later, the city completed a Three Kingdoms clean-sweep when King Jinheung expanded the domain of his Silla kingdom far to the north, absorbing Seoul – then known as Hanseong – on the way. By 668, Silla forces held control of the whole peninsula, but having chosen Gyeongju as their capital, Seoul faded into the background. In the tenth century, Silla was usurped by the nascent Goryeo kingdom – they chose Kaesong, in modern-day North Korea, as the seat of their power, though Seoul was close enough to become an important trading hub, and soon earned yet another name, Namgyeong, meaning "Southern Capital".
It was not until the end of the Goryeo dynasty that Seoul really came into its own. In 1392, the "Hermit Kingdom" of Joseon kicked off over five centuries of power; after running the rule over a few prospective candidates, King Taejo – the inaugurator of the dynasty – chose Seoul as his new capital, impressed by its auspicious location. He immediately set about reorganizing the city with a series of major projects. Exactly two hundred years after its birth, Joseon was invaded by Japanese forces from 1592 to 1598 under the control of warlord Hideyoshi; Seoul was pillaged in the course of the battles, and many of its most beautiful buildings lay in ruins. Though the country survived this particular struggle, mainly thanks to the heroic Admiral Yi, the Japanese proved more obdurate on their return in the late nineteenth century. After making tame inroads with a series of trade treaties, an escalating series of events – including the assassination of Queen Min in Gyeongbokgung – culminated in outright annexation of the peninsula in 1910, which lasted until the end of World War II, and closed the long chapters of Korean regal rule. During this time, Japan tried its best to erase any sense of Korean nationality; part of this was a drive to wipe out the Korean language, and earned Seoul yet another name – Keijo, which roughly translates as "Walled-off Capital". The city was to suffer greater indignity when its beloved palaces were modified in an attempt to make them "more Japanese"; a few of these alterations are still visible today. After the war, peninsular infighting and global shifts in power and ideology resulted in the Korean War (1950–53). Seoul's position in the centre of the peninsula, as well as its obvious importance as the long-time Korean capital, meant that it changed hands four times, coming under North Korean control twice before being wrested back. Seoul finally ended up under South Korean control, though most of the city lay in ruins, but despite – or perhaps, because of – all these setbacks, there has been no stopping it since then. The economic reforms inaugurated by president Park Chung-hee in the 1970s brought it global attention as a financial dynamo, and Seoul's population has ballooned to over ten million, more than double this if the whole metropolitan area is taken into account.Read More
Building a capital
Building a capital
Rarely can a capital have been built so quickly. On the inauguration of his Joseon kingdom in 1392, the ambitious King Taejo immediately set his minions to work on a truly incredible number of gigantic projects. Even more astonishing is the fact that many of them can still be seen today, albeit in reproduction form, since few original structures survived the Japanese occupation and Korean War.
Seoul's first palace completed in 1394.
the ancestral shrines, built in 1394.
Seoul's second palace, built in 1395.
the city's south gate; construction started in 1395.
City walls
built in stages from 1396.
the east gate, built in 1396.
A banging good time
A banging good time
University areas are a good place to get a grip on the "bang" culture that pervades modern Korean life. The term is a suffix meaning "room", and is attached to all sorts of places where locals – and occasional foreigners – like to have fun. Below are a few of the most popular:
Imagine a small room with wipe-clean sofas, tissue paper on hand and a large television for movies – if it sounds a little sleazy, you'd be absolutely right. Though people do occasionally come to appreciate plot, cinematography or Oscar-winning performances, these places are more often used by couples looking for a cheap bit of privacy – going in by yourself, or with a person of the same sex, would draw some baffled looks. Figure on around W11,000 per movie.
Popular with families, teenagers and the occasional budget-minded traveller, these steam rooms have sauna rooms, a range of hot and cold pools, and often services from massage treatments to internet booths. Though they might sound dodgy, the reality is somewhat tamer; most are open all night, making them an incredibly cheap way to get a night's sleep – prices tend to be around W6000. for more information see Staying at a jjimjilbang.
These "singing rooms", found all over the country, even outside national park entrances, are wildly popular with people of all ages; if you have Korean friends, they're bound to invite you, as noraebang are usually sam-cha in a Korean night out – the "third step" after a meal and drinks. You don't sing in front of a crowd, but in a small room with your friends, where you'll find sofas, a TV, books full of songs to choose from and a couple of maracas or tambourines to play. Foreigners are usually intimidated at first, but after a few drinks it can be tough to get the microphone out of people's hands. Figure on around W15,000 per hour between the group.
Even more ubiquitous in Korea are places to get online, which cost an almost uniform W1000 per hour. Despite the prevalence of such places, they're often packed full of gamers, and incredibly noisy – you're likely to be the only one sending emails.
A real Korean night out
A real Korean night out
The "proper" Korean night out has long followed the same format, one that entwines food, drink and entertainment. The venue for stage one (il-cha) is the restaurant, where a meal is chased down with copious shots of soju. This is followed by stage two (i-cha), a visit to a bar; here beers are followed with snacks (usually large dishes intended for groups). Those still able to walk then continue to stage three (sam-cha), the entertainment component of the night, which usually involves a trip to a noraebang room for a sing-along, and yet more drinks. Stages four, five and beyond certainly exist, but few participants have ever remembered them clearly.
Gay and lesbian Seoul
Gay and lesbian Seoul
Seoul's burgeoning queer nightlife scene has come on in leaps and bounds since 2000, when star actor Hong Seok-cheon came out of the closet – the first Korean celebrity to do so. He has since opened up a whole raft of gay-friendly bars and restaurants in Itaewon, which remains the best gay area for foreigners.
Seoul does have other gay zones; the area around Jongno 3-ga station has long been home to underground gay bars, and recent years have seen the scene becoming more and more open. Unfortunately, few venues are foreigner-friendly, though the Starmoon café attracts all sorts – it's in the ground floor of the tall Fraser Suites building. Additionally, the university district of Sinchon is popular with the local lesbian community, many of whom congregate of an evening in "Triangle Park", a patch of concrete near exit 1 of Sinchon subway station (take the first right).
Seoul festivals
Seoul festivals
APRIL International Women's Film Festival wwffis.or.kr
A week-long succession of films that "see the world through women's eyes" (even if they were created by men).
MAY Hi Seoul Festival whiseoulfest.org
With everything from choreographed firework displays and tea ceremonies to men walking across the Han River by tightrope, this ten-day-long celebration of the coming of summer also incorporates the Seoul World DJ festival.
Late MAY Seoul International Cartoon & Animation Festival whttp://www.sicaf.org
Koreans are cartoon addicts. While most of the national fix is sated by Japanese fare, there's still a lot of local talent – The Simpsons, Family Guy and Spongebob Squarepants are among the shows inked and lined here.
JUNE Korean Queer Culture Festival whttp://www.kqcf.org
Not exactly an event trumpeted by the local tourist authorities – in fact, not so long ago the police were still trying to ban it – this is a great way to see Korea crawling out of its Confucian shell.
JULY Jisan Valley http://www.valleyrockfestival.com & Pentaport Rock Festivals wpentaportrock.com
Two alcohol-fuelled European-style music festivals (think tents, mud and portaloos) which manage to rope in major international acts, though admittedly ones usually on the wane in their homelands.
AUGUST Seoul Fringe Festival whttp://www.seoulfringefestival.net
This fortnight-long platform for all things alternative is very popular with local students, and its semi-international nature means it appeals to overseas visitors too. Hongdae is usually the best place to be.
SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER Seoul Performing Arts Festival whttp://www.spaf.or.kr
This increasingly acclaimed event has seen performances from as far afield as Latvia and Israel, though its main aim is to showcase Korean talent. It takes place in various locations around Seoul over a three-week period.
OCTOBER Drum Festival whttp://www.seouldrum.go.kr & Fashion Week http://www.seoulfashionweek.org
The crashes and bangs of all things percussive ring out at the annual drum event, while Fashion Week has become Asia's largest fashion event since starting in 2000.
Seoul has by far the best range of accommodation in the country, with everything from five-star hotels to cheap hostels. Those seeking high-quality accommodation have a wealth of places to choose from, particularly around Myeongdong and City Hall on the north of the river, and Gangnam to the south. At the lower end of the price spectrum are Seoul's ballooning number of backpacker guesthouses. One interesting option, popular with foreign travellers, is to stay in traditional wooden guesthouses north of Anguk station in the palace district.
At around the same price, though different in character, motels form a cheap alternative to official tourist hotels, sometimes having rooms of comparable size and quality; note that two of the most popular nightlife areas – Itaewon and Hongdae – have a shockingly poor range of motel accommodation. It's hard to book motels in advance, except for those listed on the excellent Innostel website (winnostel.visitseoul.net), which also features an ever-growing number of cheap hotels.
Seoul is the only city in Korea to have a good range of backpacker accommodation. There are a couple of places in and around Insadong, and Daehangno has long had a few good cheapies, but these days most backpackers stay close to the hectic nightlife of the Hongdae area. All have private rooms available for around W35,000; motel rooms are larger and better value, but for some the chance to meet fellow travellers is adequate compensation.Book a hostel in Seoul
Food in Seoul is cheap by international standards and invariably excellent, while the number of restaurants is nothing short of astonishing – there's almost one on every corner, and many more in between. Korean food has a well-deserved reputation as one of the spiciest around; if you're looking for something a little blander you can stick to the ever-growing choice of restaurants serving global cuisine, or breakfast at one of the many bakeries strewn around the city (note, however, that Korean bread is rather sweet for many foreigners' tastes). Restaurants are usually open whenever you're likely to require food, and some are 24hr; if you do get stuck, head for one of Seoul's seemingly infinite number of convenience stores – large chains include 7-Eleven, Mini Stop and Buy the Way – which sell drinks and fast food. All have hot water for instant noodles and small tables outside for eating; partaking in this highly Korean activity will endear you to any passing locals. For something even more authentic, head to one of Seoul's many markets, those at Dongdaemun and Namdaemun being the most popular. Also note that the consumption of food and drink have long been entwined in Korea; many bars, including some of those listed from, serve meals every bit as good as you'd find in a restaurant.
Seoul's excellent choice of restaurants is growing more cosmopolitan with each passing year. They run the full gamut from super-polished establishments in five-star hotels to local snack bars where stomachs can be filled for just W1000; even in the cheapest places, you may be surprised by the quality of the food. With much of the national cuisine alien to most foreign guests, it may be easier to head for the food courts in department stores and shopping malls, where you can see plastic versions of the available dishes. Also popular are snack chains serving basic Korean staples.
Many parts of Seoul have their own particular culinary flavour. Most popular with tourists are the streets around Insadonggil, where restaurants almost exclusively serve traditional Korean food in an equally fitting atmosphere. Then there's cosmopolitan Itaewon, where local restaurants are outnumbered by those serving Indian, Japanese, Thai or Italian food, among others. Student areas such as Hongdae and Daehangno are filled with cheap places, while Gangnam is also popular with local youth, and trendy Apgujeong with the fashionistas.
Cafés and tearooms
There are a number of major café chains knocking around, including Pascucci, Starbucks and The Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf. In theory, all have wi-fi access, but you may need a Korean ID number to get online; with no such identity restrictions and power sockets aplenty, branches of Tom & Toms are best for the internet-hungry and open 24hr, though the coffee itself is poor. Far more interesting for the visitor are the thousands of privately run ventures, which reach heights of quirky individuality around Hongdae and Samcheongdong. Prices tend to be W3000–5000 per cup, though you can usually double this south of the river.
Nightlife and entertainment
Nightlife and entertainment
Koreans love going out, whether it's with family, colleagues, social acquaintances or old study friends, making Seoul a truly 24-hour city – day and night, it simply hums with life. Those wanting to drink or dance can choose from myriad bars and clubs, with each area of Seoul having its own particular flavour. The city also has a thriving theatre scene that's surprisingly accessible to foreign visitors.
Bars and clubs
Clubs pumping out techno, trance and hip-hop to wiggling masses; loungey subterranean lairs filled with hookah smoke and philosophical conversation; noisy joints serving up live jazz and rock; neon-tinged cocktail bars in the bowels of five-star hotels. After a lengthy gestation, Seoul's nightlife scene is finally wide open, and the drinkers themselves are becoming ever more liberal. It wasn't so long ago that drinking in Seoul was pretty much a male-only affair, taking place in restaurants or at a "hof", the ubiquitous faux-Western bars that are still winning the battle for street-space, but are increasingly being looked over in favour of more genuinely Western ideas imported from overseas. That said, there are some more local elements that can be factored into a night out: Korean friends are likely to drag you before long into a noraebang singing room to belt out your favourite songs amid a cacophony of castanets.
Most of the action is concentrated into just a few areas. Of these, Hongdae is by far the busiest, its streets lined with bars, clubs and restaurants, and full every day of the week from early evening on. Almost as busy at the weekend is Itaewon, which has some of the best bars, clubs and restaurants in the capital. Its traditional popularity with American soldiers from the nearby base has resulted in a mass of "sexy bars" (expensive venues where the bar-girls wear bikinis, hot-pants and the like, and the customers pay for their company) and brothels, many lining "Hooker Hill". The side street leading from this ("Homo Hill") has become the most popular gay area in the whole country, with some excellent bars.
Korean cinema has become the subject of growing worldwide attention and acclaim, but because almost no films are screened with English-language subtitles, it's probably best to hunt them down in your home country.
Wherever you find yourself in Seoul, you won't be too far from the nearest cinema. CVG and Megabox are the two major cinema chains; foreign films are shown in their original language with Korean subtitles. There are also a few arthouse establishments catering to foreigners.
Theatre and live music
Seoul's wide array of traditional performances and musicals are particularly popular with foreign travellers. Seoul has a few venues where you can hear more highbrow offerings such as jazz or classical music.
Sports and activities
Sports and activities
Seoul has a small but pleasing range of ways to keep sport nuts entertained, as well as simple exercise equipment on almost every mountainside, as well as in parks, and dotting the banks of the Hangang and other waterways.
Seoul has two main professional teams: LG Twins and the Doosan Bears, long-time rivals who both play in Jamsil Baseball Stadium. Games take place most days from April to October, and tickets can cost as little as W3000. Avid players can get some practice at a number of batting cages dotted around the city, particularly in student areas.
If you want to watch some K-League action, catch FC Seoul at the World Cup Stadium (whttp://www.fcseoul.com; weekends March–Oct); every now and then foreigners can buy special tickets that include a free beer. Seongnam and Suwon, the two most dominant Korean teams, also play near Seoul; the atmosphere at all grounds is fun but they can be on the empty side, unless you're lucky enough to be around for a major international game (whttp://www.fifa.com). Those who prefer to play rather than watch can try their luck with the highly competitive foreigners' football league (whttp://www.leaguelineup.com/kffl).
In winter you can skate outdoors at various points in the city: Seoul Plaza and Gwanghwamun Plaza turn into a gigantic ice-rinks for the season (usually mid-Dec to Feb; 10am–10pm). There's also a year-round rink in Lotte World (10am–9.30pm). The cheapest option is the Olympic-size rink at Korea National University (2–6pm); it's within walking distance of Korea University subway station.
Unless you're staying at a higher-end hotel or serviced apartment, you may find it tricky to get a swim in Seoul. There are municipal pools in most parts of the city; enquire at a tourist office for your nearest option. In summer, a number of outdoor pools open up around the Hangang; most convenient are those on Yeouido.
There are a number of ways in which foreign visitors can have a go at the Korean martial art of taekwondo. Training sessions have in the past taken place at Gyeonghuigung palace, but had been shelved at the time of writing. Tourist information offices are the best places to ask about taekwondo action, including longer programmes. There are also occasional performances and tournaments at the home of Korea's national sport, Kukkiwon (Mon–Fri 9am–5pm; free), a hall near Gangnam station.
Shopaholics will be quite at home in Seoul: the city has everything from trendy to traditional, markets to malls. High on the itinerary of many tourists are the colossal markets of Dongdaemun and Namdaemun.
There are department stores all over the city; the bustling streets of Myeongdong host department stores from the biggest nationwide chains – Migliore, Shinsaegae, Lotte and Galleria – and there are also luxury examples in Apgujeong. Perhaps more interesting are the city's boutiques; these are most numerous (and expensive) around Apgujeong, though there are cheaper versions of the same in Hongdae and Samcheongdong. Itaewon is also worth a mention for its excellent tailored suits, and last, but not least, are the colossal markets of Dongdaemun and Namdaemun, which feature an almost bewildering array of cheap and knock-off brand-name clothing.
Arts, crafts and antiques
The best place to head for anything vaguely arty is Insadonggil and its side streets, which have numerous craft shops selling paints, brushes, calligraphy ink and handmade paper. There are also a few shops selling antiques here, though there are more of the same in Itaewon; these sell cases, cupboards, medicinal racks and the like, many in a distinctively oriental style. Proprietors often speak English, and can arrange international shipping.
Books and music
Most of Seoul's larger bookstores have dedicated English-language sections stocked with novels, history books and language study guides for those studying Korean or teaching English. Three of these are directly accessible from subway stations – Youngpoong and Bandi & Luni from Jonggak, and Kyobo Bookstore from Gwanghwamun. These are also the best places in which to find mainstream music; fans of anything edgier should head to Purple Record in Hongdae.
Cameras and electronic equipment
Technophiles have two main choices – one is Yongsan Electronics Mart, a multilevel giant rising up alongside the train and subway station of the same name, and the other Techno Mart, near Gangbyeon subway station on line 2. At both, many staff speak a little English (particularly Yongsan, thanks to its proximity to Itaewon). Prices are generally about twenty percent less than elsewhere in the land; this can rise to fifty percent for imported goods.


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BreakPoint Blog
Our New Transgender Military
And I love it even more when I post in the right place.
My excuse is that I was giddy.
Cross-cultural communication
Rolley, I'm not sure Jason is fluent in Duck. If you had said "Little Gidding is where Charles I sought refuge after the Battle of Naseby," all would have been clear - for one of us, anyway.
That said, I love it when you gid us.
"I still don't agree"
That's OK, Ben; you're still young, and can still grow in wisdom. ;-)
"So, what about for children who grew up in a sheltered, Christian culture? Would you expect some of them to grow up homosexual, too?"
If I understand you correctly, then yes - I absolutely would. And not because they were "born that way", but rather because I don't believe there is any single thing that can be done in the past that will insulate a person from sin in the present. That is the essence of the doctrine of Original Sin: all of us are perpetually inclined toward various kinds of sin (as catalogued by Paul). It is only in taking up their cross daily, continuously, that anyone can hope to avoid a lifestyle that is deeply offensive to God. (And I'm quite well aware of the various doctrines of sanctification, including those of the Arminian-Wesleyan tradition. Even in that particular system it's possible to backslide from the most spiritually advanced position. "I'm very proud of my humility," etc.)
I've personally seen many parents follow some set of rules that were touted to guarantee to some extent that children would grow up to be strong Christians for life. I've rarely seen them succeed. I've even seen it in families that had very close relationships, in place of or even in addition to the rules. There is no silver bullet for sin. It's a struggle we all face, and will face, constantly.
The issue at hand here, as in Shane's post on incest, is how actively a society should act to 1) help individuals avoid sinning as much as possible; and 2) protect itself from those individuals who insist on sinning in spite of society's best efforts to get them to stop. It's a particular concern to PFM, since society's protection comes in the form of police and prisons. That reminds me that Oscar Wilde was notoriously tried on charges of homosexuality in an England that wanted to protect its boys from becoming male prostitutes. I commend to you Ravi Zacharias's book "Sense and Sensuality: Jesus Talks to Oscar Wilde on the Pursuit of Pleasure (Great Conversations)" for some excellent insights on Wilde in particular and this topic in general.
The problem that Anne was trying to address is the problem that a society with no barriers is a society that cannot defend itself from threats, either threats from without or threats from within. There are many examples of entire civilizations that became decadent and then were overrun, but alas, our historian has left the building, thank ya, thankYaVeryMuch. (I'd say his every performance is a classic, but that would seem too much like a pun.) We have no reason to think that our case will be any different.
In fact, I'm somewhat torn over whether it would be better for me to learn Mandarin Chinese (as you and I already discussed, I think), or Arabic. Certainly English is the universal language at the moment, as Greek once was, and Latin after that, but it's not obvious which one will be the replacement.
Ben, continual flaming is getting tiresome and one can see no end. It is really based on incompatible assumptions. Therefore, you can have the last word in a spirit of fair play and I intend to be off.
In the first place Ben, to bring up the argument that other military's do permit gays, may I remind you that they do not however allow unrestricted expression of identity. In the British army a man who enlists in the Gloucester's cannot wear a kilt on parade and if he wishes to do that he has to join the Black Watch. In the Israeli army you don't get to have non-kosher MREs simply because you have a pork fetish. In the German army you are not permitted to wear World War II era medals. And in the French Army you cannot wear a burqa. Why is this any different? DADT was perfectly fair given the circumstances.
In the second place, homosexuality like any sexual deviance is at best a "hobby" at worst, a vice. If someone chooses to tribalize a hobby, let alone a vice, by what right does he demand that others play along any more then they want to?
In the third place you are still not getting the point, that whatever theoretical non-effect of the changing of policy the fact is that this whole matter is about the use of the military as a social experimentation laboratory, for the presumed benefits of a pariochial group. Furthermore the "slippery-slope" is not "nonsense" as we have demonstrated. The fallacy of slippery slope can only apply to inevitability. Politics operates by inertia; a faction at rest tends to stay at rest and a faction in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted on by an equal or superior force. That has been the observed tendency of politics for thousands of years, so long that any appeal to a misapplication of the "no slippery-slope" argument, shows signs of denial. You sound rather like Mr Morden telling Lando that the Vorlons would not blow up Centauri Prime just because they had blown up all the other planets where The Shadows had landed.
In the fourth place if my daughter who wanted a later Saturday Night curfew was a sweet little girl who asked respectfully I might grant the request. If however she was a little brat who sulked whenever she wasn't given her desires, and insisted that her ambition was to be a Victoria's Secret model and that daddy was being mean to interfere with that ambition, then I might have second thoughts about extending the curfew.
Ack, that's just my bad communication, Jason. Yes, I support secularism; I think it's the only way for everyone to live together peacefully. But I'm not trying to brag that secularism is gaining ground, I'm just acknowledging the truth that it is, indeed, gaining ground. Because of this, I think anything in that group, "more secular", is probably subject to the slippery slope. Those issues have Constitutional support, as well as support from growing numbers of Americans (particularly libertarians, young Christians, and the non-religious).
This is the same trend that has already brought the legalization of contraception and interracial marriage (so not all bad results, even if you disagree with the reasoning). I expect that it means future legal acceptance for issues like DADT, gay marriage, and maybe eventually polygamy. Bestiality and sodomy are already legalized (part of the same trend), but incest is not, and it faces a larger barrier to legalization due to secular concerns about inbreeding. The secular cases against animal-human or child-adult marriages are even much stronger than that against incest, so they will probably make bad examples of the slippery slope argument.
For this current issue... Secularists are not arguing for the right of gays to overturn military policy, so that is a strawman position of their beliefs.
The slippery slope argument that follows is also nonsense; that gays will be able to demand and receive special treatment in bootcamp, or that they will be allowed to wear feminine clothing just because they prefer it. The obvious difference here: repealing DADT has no effect on military effectiveness, but allowing a minority group to wear dresses and order their commanders around would hurt our military capabilities.
An analogy: you have a teenage daughter who wants a later Saturday night curfew. You don't see how this will hurt her academic effectiveness, so you grant her the request. Does this mean that she has free reign over the home now? Obviously not. Will she be allowed to walk out the door in the morning wearing whatever she thinks is fashionable? Heh. Just let her try it.
LQ - an interesting take on Romans. I still don't agree, but it's something I hadn't heard before. So, what about for children who grew up in a sheltered, Christian culture? Would you expect some of them to grow up homosexual, too?
Ben, dear friend (and please note that for me the word "friend" is sincere and not merely an honorific, as it was for the Senator many years ago who rose in rebuttal and said "The honorable gentleman from Virginia is a scurvy cur."), please avoid the one-to-many fallacy. In Romans 1 Paul is talking about the vast sweep of humanity. It doesn't matter how many examples of homosexuals you trot out who are fine people (currently two of my best friends in all the world are gay - one co-worker and one personal association), nor how many homosexuals you know who claim Christ or serve in churches. Homosexuality exists, Paul tells us, because people want a "god" who is scientifically comprehensible and predictable. ("Just give him some fruit once in a while and he'll see to it that it rains" is the tagline of "Ba'al for Dummies".) The true and living God, in contrast, is larger than our finite brains can encompass, since infinity is greater than finitude, duh. When a computer has inadequate airflow, it overheats and becomes damaged. Similarly, when a society does not direct its *collective* passion toward an infinite object - an object capable of absorbing all that passion - then that society will direct its excess passion into sexual thoughts and actions. The result is a culture in which individuals find themselves immersed in lust, pornography, homosexuality, violence, and so on. In fact, it's a culture that can even consider legalizing incest (q.v. Shane's post).
But how, exactly, does this relate to some Robert who becomes a Roberta via surgery and lots of drugs, then wants the VA (actually, taxpayers) to pick up the tab for the remaining transformation? (And besides, aren't you in favor of a *smaller* military budget?)
"There's a slippery slope of rights and secularism, and I see that trend continuing. "
Ben have you ever considered that when you say that, you sound remarkably like "We are the secularists, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile?"
Ben, if that is the case then you are trying to have it both ways. You are first of all saying I am arguing against a strawman, then you are saying the strawman is really cool.
Lee, my friend: in two places in Romans 1, Paul draws a causal connection between idolatry and homosexuality (vs 24 and 26). I think it's fair to say that when Paul says "for this reason", it implies that this is indeed the reason these people were homosexual.
Likewise, he adds "God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;"
If you have met, as I have, homosexual Christians who grew up in the church, who serve God faithfully and exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit, these Christians being very clearly *not* full of covetousness, envy, and strife... how can you say that these people are the ones who Paul was condemning?
Does *anything* about the people described in Romans 1 seem Christian? Plainly no, correct? So how could a truly generous, loving and kind Christian homosexual be one of these people?
Jason: Often, slippery slope arguments *do* makes sense. In general, we've progressed towards more sexual freedom and equality: sodomy was legalized, then contraception, then abortion, then some states created civil unions, and now gay marriage is an issue. But this is a movement towards equality, not towards legally favoring homosexuality over heterosexuality, as you claim.
So it makes sense to say "gay marriage will become legal", because heterosexual marriage is legal. It does *not* make sense to say "gay PFCs will be able to determine military policy", unless you think that straight PFCs will have the same ability.
There's a slippery slope of rights and secularism, and I see that trend continuing.
Also, there are plenty of "slippery slope" predictions that have not come to pass. Gays shutting down homophobic free speech? Hmm, the Supreme Court just shot down that one, 8-1, upholding the "God Hates Fags" Westboro Baptist Church's right to protest at funerals. Pedophilia? No closer to legal acceptance now than ever. Incest and bestiality? Same. And women do not have all the power in the home now (despite the early predictions of anti-feminists), and Social Security did not lead to us becoming a communist country.
So why not construct actual arguments for your position, rather than just say "it's a slippery slope, and slippery slope predictions have come true in the past"? What sets your slippery slope apart from other ones? Why will *your* predictions come true?
Besides: forget about the future, I believe you're still wrong about the present. You think that it's homosexuals who are changing the current policy, not the President and Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The reason those positions are so Ben, is because it was not so long ago that people predicting them as results of gay rights were accused of building strawmen. But that is exactly what is happening now.
But honestly this argument is at an impasse. If you cannot accept what I say there is no reason to repeat it. I just wish you would remember sometimes that when you use words like "strawman" and "slippery slope" that you are already well toward the bottom of what was considered the slippery slope within living memory.
For those of you tuning in from home, a "strawman" is a false representation of an opponent's position. You can "attack the strawman", giving the illusion you're arguing against the other person's position, but without ever addressing their real views.
In this case, I claimed that Jason is setting up a strawman, since he says that homosexuals are trying to set military policy, and that this will carry over into their military service.
I claimed that this is a strawman, because:
(a) It is not just homosexuals who are pushing to change the policy, but also the public, President, and Joint Chiefs of Staff. Thus, it is incorrect to say that homosexuals are changing the policy, as it is favored by a far larger number of non-homosexual public citizens. Furthermore, the only ones who are actually changing policy are the government and military leaders.
(b) Future policy will still be set by the military leaders and government.
(c) These are two separate areas of policy: who is allowed to serve in the military, and how servicemen must behave *while* serving. Even if homosexuals could really force a change in the first area, there's no indication that they could also force changes in the other, particularly if it reduced military effectiveness.
In short, homosexuals are not currently setting military policy, nor will they be able to change military policy to suit themselves in the future, either.
Well.. ok.. if your argument about gays changing military policy is *not* a strawman, can you show me anyone in the chain of command who is advocating that gays be able to overrule policy while serving in the armed forces? Can you demonstrate that what you are worried about is a *real* problem?
I do a bit better when you show me evidence or explain why you think they're strawmen. For instance, I have difficulty seeing how someone arguing for the "right to incest" could be arguing against a strawman, since incest is illegal in nearly every state. Illegal certainly means there's no "right to incest", so these people certainly have a real, tangible legal issue to argue against.
And Ben, quit using the term "straw-man". The rights to gay marriage and infanticide are all ready straw men. As is the demand for the right to incest and polyamory. The fact is, your credibility when arguing against the existence of strawmen is worn thin.
Ben, I think the desire to fight for one's country but only on ones own terms, and more important the claiming of mistreatment when refused is selfish. It is akin to those types of military aristocrats who would turn out because it promised plunder and glory but wouldn't adhere to any structure that required them to actually cooperate.
Jason, I don't see that there's currently any legal right to serve in the military, myself. But both the public and the military leaders want the rules changed to allow for gays to serve, so it seems okay to me. The generals say they could really use the extra troops, while the public.. eh, who knows their reasons. Probably something about equality, as well as the lack of data indicating a loss of military effectiveness.
I think you're drawing a strawman with the idea that a gay person who joins the military gets to overrule policy. This policy is set by our government and military leaders, and will be changed (or not) by them. Citizens get some say through voting and lobbying, but nothing more. Don't think that just because DADT is repealed, suddenly homosexuals will get special treatment in boot camp.
And Jason, what's even more interesting about homosexuality and idolatry is that these people exhibited homosexual desires *before* they favored syncretism; it was the conflict about their homosexuality that caused them to look beyond their conservative beliefs. But it wouldn't really be syncretism anyway if you can show that the beliefs aren't contradictory.
PS - I don't really see how asking to fight for, or even *die* for your country could in any way be called "selfish". I mean, *seriously*?
"caused by idolatry", Ben? Naw, Romans 1 says it's the last link in a long causal chain, not one leading directly to the other. And I too have known Christians who became homosexuals, and homosexuals who became heterosexual Christians - shucks, I've even met Anne Heche's mother. (That last bit is mostly to frustrate those who insist people can't change their sexuality. Unlike Rolley, I can't seem to pass up these opportunities; I'm not nearly as, uh, "sangFreudian" as he.)
And maybe Anne's post has weaknesses and exaggerations - but I doubt she'll be willing to listen to your criticisms, based on your approach.
And since Mr. Haggard is here, how about a digression: can we speak of L and G without B and T? Or are all those people one community and must be accepted or rejected as such? And if what defines them is, say, "non-traditional sexual expression", then why the hue and cry over including incest and bestiality and other such "expressions"?
Closing the pages of "Pilgrim's Digress" for a moment, how would you and/or Brian or anyone else propose to deploy GLBT soldiers into a Muslim country like Iraq or Afghanistan (or even Saudi Arabia), where it's difficult enough simply putting hetero non-Muslims on their soil?
And as to fear-mongering, well, some of us were actually alive in the 1960s and 1970s, and we remember how GLBT activists behaved back then. For that matter, we saw what happened with Prop 8 in California.
Gotta go; I want to see if "Operation Petticoat" is on TV somewhere. Or maybe "Father Goose". Or, maybe a highly edited-for-TV version of "Cabaret", with the bulk of the naughty bits cut out or dubbed but the story line left intact.
Ben the idolatry card is an interesting one to play considering that those who favor homosexuality tend to be the ones that also favor syncretism.
Ben, what motive is there for demanding the "right" to serve? It seems to me that someone who makes such demands in this context is necessarily trying to be, not a soldier, but an agent provocateur of a faction in internal politics. What is the justification for flattering this desire? Will it make for a more efficient military? How precisely are they "vital" to the armed forces?
Someone who joins with a demand to be able to overrule policy for the sake of his personal pride, will be necessarily serving under those same conditions. And will therefore be a threat to discipline. You talk of whether soldiers have the right to disagree. That's as may be, though honestly it sounds rather odd. What soldiers do not have the right to be is selfish brats who think the armed forces are for their own benefit.
LeeQuod: Hmm, I could say the same back to you (about factchecking). According to Romans, isn't homosexuality caused by idolatry? Yet I've watched Christians that I grew up with become homosexuals, and there was never any idolatry involved.. It almost makes you wonder if Paul was talking about something else. How have *you* factchecked this, to make sure he's not?
But Brian's response re:homosexuals is quite reasonable - as he pointed out, transgender and transsexual people are still not allowed to serve in our military; the repeal of DADT has no effect on that. If Anne's post is only about transgender, it's currently a strawman.
When I read Anne's post, I can't see the arguments she uses, just the hostile attitude towards LGBT people. She doesn't try to *show* that accepting transgenders will reduce military effectiveness, nor does she have any trust that the military could work out the details for itself (like handling requests for separate shower facilities).
Instead, what I read in Anne's post is raw emotion: fear and anger. She feels oppressed by our culture's acceptance of LGBT, and she feels persecuted, even so much that she honestly thinks her life will be endangered for writing this. She strikes against the LGBT with belittling, nonsensical arguments (skirts and dresses?). She embellishes the conflict between the sides, pretending that those who promote LGBT equality do so out of hatred for "faithful Christians".
There's this meme amongst conservatives in America that homosexuals are out to get Christians, that they want to take away your free speech rights and lock up everyone who speaks against homosexuality... but it's not true. For the most part, LGBT people just want to be treated equally. Don't radicalize the debate.


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Unless the Democrats wake up to the importance of winning state legislative elections, they are likely to remain a largely impotent minority in the House of Representatives and equally feeble in the state legislatures. The momentous Supreme Court decisions on the Voting Rights Act, same-sex marriage and affirmative action make winning these races all the more vital, for all these rulings deal with state action. The huge Republican victory in the 2010 election could turn out to be a gift that keeps giving.
The GOP electoral sweep in 2010 was no accident. Republicans understand the importance of the state legislative races. After the 2008 election the GOP adopted a strategy called the REDistricting MAjority Project (REDMAP). As Karl Rove explained:
"[S]ome of the most important contests this fall will be way down the ballot in . . . state legislative races that will determine who redraws congressional district lines after this year's census, a process that could determine which party controls upwards of 20 seats and whether many other seats will be competitive."
Republicans focused on 107 state legislative seats in 16 states where GOP wins in four or five Democratic districts per state would enable the Republicans to re-shape about 190 congressional districts. Leading GOP strategist Ed Gillespie ran this operation. He took over the Republican State Leadership Committee, and the party poured more than $30 million into these contests. It also spent many millions on various gubernatorial contests.
REDMAP succeeded brilliantly. In 2010, the GOP netted some 700 state seats, increasing its share of state House and Senate seats by almost 10 percent, from approximately 3200 to over 3900. It took over both legislative chambers in 25 states and won total control of 21 states (legislature and governorship) — the greatest such victory since 1928. In 17 of these states, GOP legislatures controlled the congressional redistricting for 173 seats. The other five GOP states have only one congressional district or rely on an independent commission.


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MANCHESTER, NH (WTAQ) - House Budget chairman Paul Ryan of Janesville says he's keeping his options open about a possible run for the presidency in 2016.
But he won't start to survey the political landscape until Congress completes its business for this year.
For now, Ryan -- the 2012 vice-presidential nominee -- said he's focused on running the House Budget Committee, and he'll worry about the other things later.
Ryan made his comments in Manchester New Hampshire Tuesday night, where he spoke at a fundraiser for former House colleague Frank Guinta -- who's trying to win his job back after he lost in 2012.
Ryan also praised the Tea Party's influence on the GOP, and said interparty skirmishes were nothing more than "creative tension." He said the Republicans lost their footing before 2010 -- and Ryan said the Tea Party has, "done a great service to become a real fiscal conservative party."
(Story courtesy of Wheeler News Service)


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ARLINGTON, Texas – It was a game full of memorable moments, which makes Cowboys owner/general manager's praise even more impressive.
It wasn't
"From my standpoint, maybe in the top games that I've seen played because of what he did on special teams was No. 17, Harris. He was just outstanding," Jones said. "They couldn't seem to block him and he was in on not only the big play but he was in on the tackles early."
It's fitting praise for anyone who watched Harris put together an understated but impressive performance in the season opener. Harris was one of the first Cowboys defenders on the scene when Giants cornerback Trumaine McBride muffed a punt in the third quarter. That was a theme on the night, as Harris made three special teams tackles as one of the first players downfield on every kick.
"I would have to give him one of the top two or three players that we had tonight, just from looking at the game," Jones said.
It's hefty praise from the guy that signs his paycheck, but Harris was as understated after the game as his level of play during it.
"I just call it doing my job. My tackles were just a small piece of the puzzle," he said. "I'm an athlete. Whatever they need me to do -- I run out on kicks, I return punts. I cover punts, I'm on kickoff return, I do receiver, I do everything. I'm an athlete, whatever they need me to do, I go out and do it the best I can."
That's a pretty fair assessment. In addition to his play as a tackler, Harris returned two punts for 19 yards, and he caught two passes for 12 yards – including one that set up a
The timing couldn't have been better for Harris, who lost his job as No. 3 receiver to rookie
It seems early to say if Harris can earn himself more playing time with one nice night. But Jones certainly has a firm understanding of the value in keeping him around.
"If he had any criticism during training camp, it was that sometimes he was lackadaisical in his play, and sometimes he looked less than driven," Jones said. "People that really know him and have a lot of confidence in him were quick to point out his skill and his ability to always seem to be involved in a big play."
Jones said Harris looked plenty driven against the Giants. As far as votes of confidence go, it doesn't get much better than that.


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call him the Si-Monster, and for good reason. As one of the top riders on the
National Ultra-Endurance (NUE) series Michael Simonson rages through the peloton, like Godzilla in Tokyo, devouring hundreds of the
nation's top riders every weekend.
the week he's a mild-mannered engineer for the Department of Defense but on the
weekend the Si-Monster comes out leaving a trail of smoldering legs and bike
parts behind him.
took a minute to talk with us about how a former marching band member from Clarkston,
Michigan, becomes one of the top mountain bike racers in the country and what
makes the National Ultra Endurance series so exciting. Read his full interview
MTB Race News -What is your background, did you grow up mountain bike racing? Were you
involved in other sports in high school?
Mike Simonson -Back in the day, I got started racing BMX at Waterford Hills Michigan BMX
track. I was only 12 or 13 years old. My home boys and I built this crazy BMX
dirt jump track across the street from my house. Every year we'd add more and
more trails, and people would come from farther and farther places to ride them
and we'd have these big dirt jams. It was a blast. I still can't believe
whoever owned that property never kicked us out of there. I bought my first MTB
from a guy named Robert Linden at Kinetic Systems Bicycles. He used to take me
out to Pontiac Lake XC trails in the winter time to ride. I used to school him
on all the downhills but he'd catch me on the climbs. Robert started Tailwind,
a MTB race promotion business, and I got into MTB racing doing his Michigan
MTB Race News -You're a big dude, much bigger than the average mountain bike racer. Exactly
how tall are you and how much do you weigh? What advantages/disadvantages have
you encountered because of your size?...
Mike Simonson -I'm officially 6'-2" and my weight can go anywhere between 170 to 200 lbs
depending on the time of yr. I have huge weight fluctuations. I'm like the
Kirstie Alley of MTB racing. However, I have a big aerobic engine and strong
legs which I rely on too much sometimes. Some of the weight is upper body which
helps on the longer downhills. The NUE courses are pretty heavy on the
climbing, so to be lighter and more efficient can go a long way when you
multiply it over 7-8 hrs worth of hills. The first few hills go OK, but they'll
wear a big guy down eventually if you keep having to tap into an anaerobic
effort to keep up. I have podium'd at an NUE weighing 200 lbs, I carried a
little more muscle...and fat, but I can definitely tell a difference when I'm
lighter. I worked really hard on dropping weight this year, hopefully it
MTB Race News -Why focus on the NUE series and not something else like the Pro XCT?
Mike Simonson -Most of the Pro XCT races are a little out of driving range for me. Besides, if
I'm going to drop the coin on flying, I want to go to an event where I can
really take advantage of the area/terrain, and ride to my hearts content. An
NUE gives you an all day experience of miles and miles of trail the area has to
offer. The NUE seems like they got it together too. The series is defined,
simple, and straight forward. I'm not even sure what the Pro XCT series is
anymore in the US. It's too confusing. I really hope the NUE series keeps
growing. I'd love to see more of the top XC guys try it out. Last year we saw
JHK and Todd Wells giving Leadville a go and we saw Thomas Turner and few other
XC guys from the South giving Cohutta a try. Maybe we'll see a few more try it
this year. I'd love to see even more coverage of the series. Maybe even a live
update roll like they do with the major road races.
MTB Race News -Which NUE race is your favorite?
Mike Simonson -It used to be Shenandoah, but I'm starting to lean towards Wilderness now. I
have a serious axe to grind with that race. That course eats my bicycle every
year. This is the year I make it through without a mechanical damnit! Chris
Scott's events feel just like the way mountain biking should be, no more, no
MTB Race News -Before this season Jeff Schalk has been nearly untouchable, but now he is
getting challenged from riders like you and Christian Tanguy, what is different
this season?
Mike Simonson - I
think Schalk has made everyone up their game. I'm doing stuff in my training
that I wouldn't have dreamed of 5 yrs ago. I'm exhausted just sitting here
thinking about it. I wouldn't say I'm super physically gifted, but as they say
in poker, I'm good enough to sit at the table and take a pot every so often. I
have to work at it really hard though and it's taken a few years to hone the
100 miler in. I'm sure the others are more focused than ever as well. The
courses are incredibly hard. I give props to anyone who finishes. To go under
7hrs is like doing three XC races in a row.
MTB Race News -You have had some great races this year only to be undone by mechanicals. How
do you stay positive after such bad luck and do you think you'll break through
with a NUE win this year?
Mike Simonson - I
certainly think it's possible. The positive outlook is something I've had to
drill into my brain over the years. It's part of maturing as an athlete. I have
to keep telling myself not to cry over spilled milk, because it really doesn't
do any good, and it just makes you a buzz kill to be around after the race. The
post race vibe is the best part... sitting around chatting and hearing
everyone's war stories, then laughing about it. I've been doing the series for
a few years now and I've made a lot of close friends and I won't let a flat
tire ruin the time I have to enjoy their company after the race.
MTB Race News -Which of the remaining NUE races represents your best chance at coming home
with a win and why?
Mike Simonson - I
don't know. I think Mohican and Lumberjack suit me best. The climbs are
shorter, but that also means more time going anaerobic over and over, which can
be a killer for me. Wilderness might actually be a good one, as long as I can
get between aid 2 and 4 without mishap. The climbs are just the right length
and pitch.
MTB Race News -What keeps you motivated to race hard for 7-8 hours?
Mike Simonson -Untreated hypomania... no seriously, I guess I'm a fierce competitor at heart.
I love racing at the front with the best, interacting with the other guys,
attacking, covering attacks. The element of the race unfolding as we move along
keeps me engaged. It uncovers weaknesses and makes me proud to show my
strengths. I'm so grateful just to be able to be up there at the front. I
realize that I'm not going to be capable of racing like this forever, so I try
to give every second of it total focus and respect. You take time off work,
drag your ass 10hrs across the country, sacrifice time with your family and
train yourself to complete exhaustion... I better be giving it 110% the whole
f#@king 7-8 hrs. I owe that to myself, my family/friends, my sponsors, my
employer, and the people at work who have to deal with my smelly cycling
clothes hanging on the cube walls.
Mike Simonson -Untreated hypomania... no seriously, I guess I'm a fierce competitor at heart.
I love racing at the front with the best, interacting with the other guys,
attacking, covering attacks. The element of the race unfolding as we move along
keeps me engaged. It uncovers weaknesses and makes me proud to show my
strengths. I'm so grateful just to be able to be up there at the front. I
realize that I'm not going to be capable of racing like this forever, so I try
to give every second of it total focus and respect. You take time off work,
drag your ass 10hrs across the country, sacrifice time with your family and
train yourself to complete exhaustion... I better be giving it 110% the whole
f#@king 7-8 hrs. I owe that to myself, my family/friends, my sponsors, my
employer, and the people at work who have to deal with my smelly cycling
clothes hanging on the cube walls.
MTB Race News -Why is mountain bike racing so big in Michigan?
Mike Simonson -The roots of "the Michigan scene" are pretty deep. Guys you might not know like
Jason Lummis, Jeff Weinert, Scott Quiring, Don Cameron, Robert Linden just to
name a few, are mainstays and have been pushing and grinding out the sport of
MTB racing in Michigan for decades. I don't think I'll ever leave Michigan, or
ever completely stop racing MTB's, and I hope one day I'm thought of as part of
that Michigan root structure.
MTB Race News - What
is your favorite race in Michigan, why?
Mike Simonson -Iceman Cometh is a hard one to top. It was the race that made me fall in love
with racing. It seems to grow each year with more and more top national talent
showing up. It's the year end blowout. It's like a holiday for mountain bikers
in Michigan. It's total mayhem and I'm surprised they haven't kicked me out of
Traverse City yet. Ore to Shore is another great event. August in Marquette on
Lake Superior is something you have to experience. Lumberjack is always on the
list too. Rick Plight does a fabulous job with what he has to work with.
MTB Race News - Tell
us about your sponsors this year.
Mike Simonson - Trek
29 is still supporting, but I switched it up to add a few more additional
sponsors... Rochester Bike Shop in Rochester MI, and CPA Crossings. Must haves
were Notubes wheels, SRAM components, and ERGON grips, so they all jumped on
board too. It makes for one really sweet 29er.
MTB Race News -Favorite mountain bike racer John Tomac or Travis Brown? Why?
Mike Simonson -You gotta respect a dude who just says F it and moves to Montana to live on a
farm, plus he's a legend in the sport of MTB. But I think Travis Brown is more
the kind of dude you could hang out with at the bar, or be down for some crazy
road trip to a mud hole mountain bike race in BFE. I'd say Travis Brown.
MTB Race News -What is your favorite race of all time and Why? It doesn't have to be a race
you have done.
Mike Simonson -The Race Across America has always intrigued me. I've kind of thought it would
be cool to try one year. Maybe as the one last big who-rah before I go out.
It's sounds totally crazy and right on the edge of human capabilities. Sign me
up! We just have to convince my wife this is a good idea.
MTB Race News -Tell us something interesting about yourself that most people probably don't
Mike Simonson - I
didn't play sports in high school, rather I was in the marching band. That's
actually how my wife and I met. I played the drums and she played the clarinet.
I tried out for Drum Corps International one time, but didn't make the snare
drum line. My whole family's musicians, so I don't know where the obsession
with bike riding came from. Hmmmm..
was born and raised in Clarkston Michigan and currently live only about 12
miles from there in Oxford MI with my wife Michelle, our golden retriever
Buddy, and Mr. Fatty our cat.
to the sponsors, thanks to the fans and everyone who has given me support over
the years!


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Many people have been affected by Monday's shooting at Sparks Middle School as the community continues to show support during this tragic time.
A number of people began leaving flowers in front of the school's sign to pay respects to Mr Michael Landsberry.
Dozens attended a vigil at the Saint Paul's Episcopal church in Sparks, to remember the 8th grade math teacher and soccer coach.
"I was just here to support my friends and to come pay my condolences for him" said Marissa Marchut, one of Mr. Landsberry's former students.
People had a chance to talk to other about the shooting at Monday night's vigil.
"Tonight was an opportunity for people to come together and to see that they weren't alone in this and to be able to cry and to reach out to people." said Priest Kirk Woodliff.
Students say Mr. Landsberry made an impact on a lot of lives.
"He was honestly like a second dad to me when I went there." said Marchut sobbing, "He cared so much about the students."
"He said I would help you guys. I would do anything for you guys, and I guess that means taking a bullet. And he did." said Kasandra Kirk through her tears.
There will be another vigil Wednesday night in front of Sparks Middle School. That begins at 7 p.m. and will feature an honor guard with the Patriot Guard and different veteran groups.
The Sparks Nazarene Church will be holding a community prayer night. That is Thursday night, for anyone who would like to attend. That begins at 6:30 p.m. at 2200 El Rancho Drive.
KTVN-TVPhone: (775) 858-2222Fax: (775) 861-4298
Mailing Address:4925 Energy WayReno, NV 89502


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CEDAR COUNTY, IA (WTAQ) - The woman accused of kidnapping a baby near Beloit, and leaving him in the cold behind a gas station, is now facing both state and federal charges.
A county prosecutor in Iowa charged 31-year-old Kristen Smith Thursday with a state count of child endangerment.
Prosecutor Jeffrey Renander said she remains in jail after making an initial court appearance in Cedar County Iowa. He said Smith endangered young Kayden Powell in, "numerous ways."
Smith is jailed close to where she was arrested last week in West Branch Iowa.
Authorities said she took Powell from a home in the town of Beloit -- and she may have tried taking her to Colorado, where she lives. Police found the baby the next day, and returned him to his mother in Wisconsin.
Smith has been charged in federal court with kidnapping -- but U.S. Marshals are reportedly waiting to take her into custody until a federal grand jury in Madison reviews the case and hands down an indictment.
(Story courtesy of Wheeler News Service)


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The Mainly Mozart Festival packed the University of Miami's Gusman Concert Hall to capacity for the finale of its 20th season, with a large number of families joining regular patrons.
Sunday's concert marked the end of James Judd's tenure of as festival artistic director, with executive director Anna Klimata-Pietraszko literally handed the baton to his successor, Marina Radiushina, who was joined onstage by Miami Chamber Music Society president Mike Eidson. Together, they will set the direction of the festival, and if Sunday's concert is any indication, the future holds audience-friendly, outside-the-box programming, slick presentation values and cross-fertilization with other Miami arts organizations.
Read the review at SouthFloridaClassicalReview.com.


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Burma democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi is to be honoured in Washington and given the US Congress' highest award, in the latest milestone in her remarkable journey from political prisoner to globetrotting stateswoman.
The Nobel Peace laureate's 17-day US tour will include meetings at the State Department and probably the White House. She then goes to New York, the Midwest and California.
The trip comes as the Obama administration considers easing its remaining sanctions on Burma.
Since her release from house arrest in late 2010, Ms Suu Kyi has gone from dissident to parliamentarian as Burma has shifted from five decades of repressive military rule, gaining international acceptance for a former pariah regime.
After being confined to her homeland since 1989 because she was either under detention or afraid she would not be permitted to return, Ms Suu Kyi has in the past four months spread her wings. She has travelled to Thailand and five nations in Europe, where she was accorded honours usually reserved for heads of state.
Revered by Republicans and Democrats alike, Ms Suu Kyi will get star treatment too in the US, although her schedule is being carefully planned to avoid upstaging the itinerary of Burma president Thein Sein, who arrives in the US the following week to attend the United Nations General Assembly's annual gathering of world leaders in New York.
"The idea that she will be at the Rotunda of the US Capitol, to receive the highest award Congress can give, just a couple of years after she was under house arrest in her own country, is just remarkable," said Democratic Rep Joe Crowley, one of the politicians who sponsored her 2008 award of the Congressional Gold Medal.
For years, some of Washington's most powerful politicians have been among Ms Suu Kyi's strongest advocates and it has been a rare area of bi-partisan consensus. Both when sanctions against the Burma junta were imposed, and over the past year when they have been suspended, Democrats and Republicans have found common cause.
The Obama administration is now considering easing a ban on imports from Burma into the US, the main plank remaining in the tough economic sanctions that Washington has chipped away at this year to reward the progress towards democracy.
While Congress last month renewed the sanctions for another year, President Barack Obama could waive its provisions. He may however look for further concrete action by Burma to earn it - such as the release of hundreds of political prisoners who remain in detention despite the freeing of hundreds of other dissidents this year.


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If there is no revolutionary theory,
there is no revolutionary movement.
The national democratic movement is a study movement. Anakbayan's dynamic education work rooted in the masses is an important factor in living up to its basic task which is to arouse, organize and mobilize the masses.
As a comprehensive national democratic mass organization, Anakbayan takes the obligation of raising the political consciousness and understanding of its members and of the people regarding the national democratic struggle.
The Pambansa Demokratikong Paaralan (PADEPA) is the political school established for the ranks of the national democratic mass organizations like Anakbayan. The organization provides the machinery needed for the comprehensive implementation of the education work within the organization and with the broad masses. This machinery includes the education committees, the education or the PADEPA officers, and the pool of instructors, which not only supervise the education work but also promotes revolutionary and progressive culture.
It is the objective of the PADEPA to ensure the unity of the membership on the national democratic line and programs of the organization. This arms the members the knowledge and skill to actively and sharply crticize various social issues through PADEPA's comprehensive curriculum which features courses on social analysis as well as theoretical foundations.
Also, this aims to raise the political understanding of the members on the orientation of the organization and of the national democratic movement as a whole. Ultimately, this serves as a foundation for the continuous remolding of the members' viewpoints and perspectives in able to fully live and promote revolutionary culture.
PADEPA makes sure that the study movement is sustained and able to reach the broadest ranks of the people.


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Welcome to Enfield and Haringey Athletic Club
The Enfield and Haringey Athletic Club is actually an amalgamation of: Enfield AC founded 1920, Ponders End AC founded 1922 and Southgate Harriers founded 1933 which became Haringey AC in 1974.
The clubs merged at various times and in 1999 the merger of Borough of Enfield Harriers and Haringey AC produced a club that has rapidly risen to the top echelon of British athletics in all departments.
The clubs merged at various times and in 1999 the merger of Borough of Enfield Harriers and Haringey AC produced a club that has rapidly risen to the top echelon of British athletics in all departments.
Enfield & Haringeys Brilliant European Games TrioWhat a brilliant finish to the European Games for Enfield & Haringey's Champion women - First Desiree Henry – Anchored the 4 x 100m relay women to a Gold Medal at European Championships (still a Junior only 18yrs old) Followed by Margaret Adeoye – who Anchored the 4 x 400m relay women to a Bronze Medal (just missing out on a Gold and Silver as it was such a close finish) Then Bianca Williams EU – ran superbly finishing 4th just missing out on a Bronze Medal in women's 200m after a good run in the 100m Three very talented ladies who have done the club proud in intense International Competition... Read More..
MENS BRITISH LEAGUE 9th August 2014 REPORT ON FINAL MATCH AT MANCHESTER 9TH AUGUST 2014. This match will undoubtedly remain in the memories of all the athletes who took part and the officials and supporters who accompanied them. We achieved what was thought to be the impossible by fin.. Read More..
Geoff Harrold Memorial 10k + 5k racesPlease see bottom of 'Noticeboard' for further details and entry form.. Read More..
Youth Development League 19-07-2014 The build up to the last match at Tooting Bec on Saturday was a tough one. Leaving us with the task of finishing in The top two position's after a not so strong placing in the previous three matches. The team started really well and, at the half wa.. Read More..
Young Athletes Development League 27.06.2014The under 13/15's set off to Norman Park last Sunday with what we felt was a more in depth team than the previous two matches. However, despite this time making up the numbers in the under 13's,we had the misfortune of having one or two gaps in the u.. Read More..
Contributions WantedThis is a plea for RESULTS, Comments, Stories Controversial (within reason) or Not, for Track & Field. All I am getting is Race Walking results!! Come on lets have a lively, informative web site with up-to-date photos. there must be lots of you who c.. Read More..
National Senior Medal for WilkinsonSeventeen year old Callum Wilkinson took full advantage of his invitation to compete in the 5km walk at the British Games staged at Alexander Stadium, Birmingham on Sunday. In an extremely fast race which was won by guesting Australian Dane Bird-Smit.. Read More..
Youth Development League 1st June 2014A healthier result compared to last YDL but a mix up with officials points could potentially put us in 5th place, just 'half a point'! behind 4th place Tonbridge. Fingers crossed that this gets sorted. The most spectacular event of the day was the 4 .. Read More..
Young Athletes Development League - Southampton 04.05.2014The YA's (U15/13) had their first match in sunny Southampton on Saturday. The athletes performed their very best, displayed great team spirit and the support was awesome but.... it was not enough to challenge the strength and depth of Reading and Bla.. Read More..


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Morton's The Steakhouse - North Miami Beach
- Address:
17399 Biscayne Blvd.
North Miami Beach, FL 33160Neighborhood:
North Miami
- Cuisine:
SteakhousePrice: $50 and over
Morton's The Steakhouse - North Miami Beach
- Dining Style: Casual Dining
- Website: http://mortons.com/
- Phone: 3059453131
- Hours of Operation:
Dinner: Monday - Saturday: 5:30pm - 11:00pm, Sunday: 5:00pm - 10:00pm
- Payment Options: AMEX,Diners Club,MasterCard,Visa
- Cuisine: Steak, Seafood, Steakhouse
- Dress Code: Business Casual
- Accepts Walk-Ins: Yes
- Additional Details: Banquet/Private Rooms, Bar Dining, Bar/Lounge, Beer, Full Bar, Non-Smoking Area, Personal wines welcome, Personal wines welcome (corkage fee applies), Private Room, Smoking Area, Takeout, Wheelchair Access, Wine
- Catering: Private and group dining available. Contact our dedicated Sales and Marketing Manager to plan your next business or social event. Hosting a party at your home or office? Ask about Morton's Prime To Go and Prime Platters!
- Special Events: Morton's in North Miami Beach hosts a variety of special events featuring fine wine & spirits, the best steak and a great time! For more information, visit http://www.mortons.com/northmiami
A word from Morton's The Steakhouse - North Miami Beach
Morton's The Steakhouse, the nation's premier steakhouse group, specializes in classic, hearty fare, serving generous portions of USDA prime aged beef, as well as fresh fish, lobster and chicken entrees. The menu features a variety of favorite cuts, including a 24 ounce porterhouse, which is the house specialty; a 16 ounce New York Strip and a 12 ounce double cut filet.Continued
Foodspotting photosSee all photos
Morton's The Steakhouse - North Miami Beach reviews from OpenTable diners
72 reviews since June 3, 2014
- Food3.9Service3.8
- Ambiance3.5Noise LevelModerate
special occasion (36)notable wine list (21)fit for foodies (14)good for groups (13)romantic (10)neighborhood gem (8)vibrant bar scene (6)late-night find (6)hot spot (2)great for lunch (1)kid-friendly (1)scenic view (1)great for outdoor dining (1)Show More
- Morton's steakhousedjmello59Dined on 9/27/2014My party of four were seated in a timely manner but cocktails came out a bit slow but they were great the Cadillac Margerita was on point , crabcake greater salad , steak , salmon and shrimp all fantastic. I was only one to finish the cake . Great timeSpecial Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Aventura Morton's - Way Up There!EatingOutVIPDined on 9/25/2014We've eaten at many other Morton's across the country, this one was the best, by far. Incredible service and outstanding food, what more can you ask? It's on its way to becoming our "go to" steakhouse.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- A good time with great steakSnuznb411VIPDined on 9/19/2014Three of us ordered from the Miami Spice menu. The portions were generous and the filet mignon was just right. Ditto the creme brulee.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Excellent ExperiencelongtimefoodieDined on 9/17/2014My friends and I went to Morton's for an impromptu Miami Spice dinner on a weeknight. I had been to Morton's before and enjoyed it, but the prices are a little high for my budget. Miami Spice made it affordable, and the experience was the same as it had been before. Excellent service, great food, pleasant surroundings.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- JerryDined on 9/14/2014had a wonderful dinner on the Miami spice menu. We enjoyed the whole eveningSpecial Features:
- Excellent restaurantIsaGVIPDined on 9/12/2014I really love Morton's, we have been here several time for dinner with my husband and we love the service and of course the meat! Excellent wine list and good serviceSpecial Features:
- FloydDined on 9/12/2014Always a consistent great meal experience and serviceSpecial Features:
- I loved itWondeful4datenightDined on 9/1/2014I had wonderful service!! And the food was wonderful. My husband and I truly enjoyed it.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- SubparSurprisedDined on 8/30/2014We were there for Miami spice offerings were fine. Portion sizes acceptable. Service was excellent. Steaks did not offer great flavor surprisingly. I wouldn't recommend for the spice menu.
- Mortons North Miami BeachWongDined on 8/22/2014Started out great the hostess who answered was nice enough to offer to print "Happy Birthday" on the menus for the occasion. The temperature was uncomfortable, everyone was very hot. I must say the food was delicious. The service that was provided was very unprofessional and overall bad. Our waitress whose name I believe is Olivia seemed very annoyed and frustrated with us. She kept making public announcements interrupting the conversations. She had 2 other waiters helping and everything took forever. We were the last ones in the restaurants, and towards the end of our dinner the lights were turned on us. We felt like we were being kicked out of the restaurant. The manager Alfonso Aredondo did apologize.Special Features:
- Food is not badClutchDined on 8/22/2014The expierence and food is high priced compared to what is actually given. Steak was not bad, however was not worth the 80.00 price tag. We prefer dinning at other high end steak houses.Special Features:
- jeanDined on 8/22/2014Great dining. Went for lobster special. Delicious!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great Food, NO Air ConditioningBB13VIPDined on 8/22/2014Two pound lobster specials and other food were superb. Very good wine and service. Electrical failure for short period of time - no lights. No air conditioning - some in our party left early because of a warm room.Special Features:
- Beware! Not Morton's it used to be.Maedo11Dined on 8/22/2014Beware! This place just kept the name of the finest steakhouse it used to be. Loud, so-so service, and extremely pricey for meager portions of food. Not a great value at the prices Mortons gets. There are much better options in this area.
- Only for MiamiSpicegirlie527Dined on 8/19/2014I jumped on the deal at Morton's for a special menu on Miami Spice. I usually go to the bar for a drink and bar bites, but it was nice to sit down in the dining room. The service is over the top but the food was just ok.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Miami Spice?AlanVIPDined on 8/9/2014The food was very good and the service was mostly very good, once we got past having to wait twenty minutes for a bottle of wine, before being told that they were out of it (especially, since ten minutes before, we were told that the wine was coming). When a restaurant has that extensive a wine list, they really should know what they do and don't have in stock. Also, if the restaurant is participating in Miami Spice, it shouldn't hide the Miami Spice Menu - they should bring it with the regular menu.
- Poor serviceJM1977Dined on 8/8/2014Perfecty Martini the rest was average. I dine in quality Steakhouses quite often and was disappointed by the inattentive service during this visit. Service during other visits has also been average. I had to call busboy to get water at the table. Eventhough our reservation was not late in the evening they had run out of one of the desserts.
- great place , great steaks !LuluVIPDined on 8/4/2014Had a great time celebrating my brothers birthday here. The food was great and service even better ! The picture they took and framed as a keepsake was a nice touch . We will be back !Special Features:
- Inattentive service and bad foodHonestandHungryVIPDined on 8/2/2014Waiter was aloof and inattentive. food came 20 minutes after other dishes and was RAW CHICKEN!! Lamb chops ordered medium rare came well done. Manager had no clue what was happening. and when was alerted, he didn't even offer a simple apology. he stood there like a lump and listened without solution or process. I think 90% of the guests at this location come after seeing the lines at Houston's. the service stinks. the food is average. and the prices are high. Stick to the Palm!!!
- Amazing servicewinemavenDined on 8/2/2014What is great, is the consistency: the food is always perfectly preferred and tasty, the staff is welcoming and knowledgable. Special mention to Alfonso and Chad, who go the extra mile to make sure you have the best experience while at Morton's. By far, the number one restaurant in Aventura.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Terrible comidaMAGABOTADined on 8/1/2014Horrible el sabor de la Carne, espárragos, tacos ......todo fue muy desagradable hasta la papa al horno su manera de servir la sour cream y la mantequilla pésima experiencia, tal si fuera a servir comida a un perro con un gran cucharón y Platón .... Precio carísimo para la relación de los alimentos....recomiendo mil veces más Smith & wollenski tiene sabor delicioso, vista y buen servicio...
- OpenTable Diner Since 2009VIPDined on 7/27/2014Morton's hit a new low. This was our worst experience at Morton's bar none. The food was abominable. The crab cakes were undercooked; the order was mixed up--there were two orders one for my wife and one for me--one arrived. The server blamed the kitchen. White expensive wine arrived warm--a substitute wine was offered. Potato skins were undercooked. Any resemblance between the Morton's salad and what we were served was coincidence. This was a disgrace. The manager was aware of the wine issue and said there was no charge for the warm glass. this was a pittance.
- LuluVIPDined on 7/26/2014I understand this is a chain restaurant but the prices are premium. The shrimp cocktail was fair with the shrimp either overcooked or not fresh. The spinach salad had very little except spinach, no mushrooms, no eggs. Not worth the price. Steak and Salmon were fine. Basically, stick to the meat. Any deviation is not likely to be very satisfactory.
- Loud and DarkHardToPleaseDined on 7/22/2014At 9pm on a Tuesday night I expected a nice quiet evening, but that's not the case. There were multiple families with noisy kids, which was surprising. The service was minimal. Nothing was explained. Specials weren't presented. Server didn't tell us the the Caesar salad was enough for 2. I had the short rib which was good, not great. It's served with unwanted egg noodles and sour cream, like some sort of very expensive stroganoff. The prices here are outrageous; $9.25 for a Pellegrino. The menu doesn't even say that the steaks are Dry Aged or USDA prime, so who knows what it is? The place is so dark that you can't read the menu. Maybe they don't want you to see the prices?
- Always good. But LOUD!RobbVIPDined on 7/19/2014Mortons are fairly consistently a good choice for carnivores. They've expanded their menu too. Service excellent.This Mortons was extremely LOUD. really impacted the usual intimate, romantic setting. I'll choose a diff steak house next time for some of that quiet while you're shelling out those big bucks.Special Features:
- OKICU812VIPDined on 7/8/2014This is always my "go to" for business dinners. More often than not, they are able to put my party in a private room, away from the noise of the open dining room. This particular time, I needed access to a projector and they were able to accommodate me. I'm always very happy with the service and the food.
- not what we expectedourdatenightDined on 7/6/2014Upon arrival the hostess, was very nice. The waiter never told us about the Anniversary Special, Until we asked about it. When our steaks arrived the food server never waited too check to see if the steaks were done. We had to send my wife's steak back. My chair had a large tear in the seat. While eating dinner a bus boy took a chair from our table without asking us. After dinner my wife went to the restroom, there were no paper towels in the restroom.Special Features:
- Great AlwaysslimfoodieDined on 7/5/2014Restaurant always has good food and service. Great for steaks and seafood. The sides are huge and great for sharing.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Expected BetterRescoDined on 6/28/2014Great steak, but definitely not worth the $50 +!!!! Left expecting better satisfaction from Morton's, dissapointed.Special Features:
- SurprisedUnderdogDined on 6/21/2014The food was good but we had to wait almost two hours before someone even took our order. They kept switching our waiter and had to take our orders twice. And on top of that, the waiter asked us do we want any water and we said yes, but come to find out every bottle of water they brought to the table was $9.25 each. I didn't mind paying for it but it's the fact that nobody told us we had to pay for water which ended up being an extra $50 on the bill.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Lamb was undercookedCareyCason848Dined on 6/16/2014Great Serve :-) but the food was so so My lamb was undercooked The place is nice and the staff was great..... Just the food could be betterSpecial Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great steaks and seafoodBB13VIPDined on 6/7/2014The food has been consistently good. States and seafood were well prepared and tasted great.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- The following 502 reviews are from the Morton's The Steakhouse - North Miami Beach reviews archive.
- Constant Good FoodJoeschDined on 5/31/2014Food is always good especially the meat quality. Service is friendly. Everything came as ordered. The only negative is there is not enough time between courses. Great summer menu.Special Features:
- Outstanding ExperienceGlammaDined on 5/25/2014I usually do not order steak, but I did and it was cooked to perfection! Every course was wonderful, especially the DESSERT! I cannot wait to return to the restaurant.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Service and food were ok.JcgirlVIPDined on 5/24/2014I thought the menu items were a little over priced compared to other places, maybe because they were a la carte. Hostess had her back towards us on a call for 5 minutes before greeting us when we entered the restaurant. Filet mignon was good, but not better than the one at The Forge was better. Rib eye was ok, not better than the one I had at Michael Schwartz. Managers came around to see how we were doing, that was nice.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- excellent dinnerjeanDined on 5/23/2014Excellent food and service. Had a birthday celebration and everything was great.Special Features:
- One of the best restaurants!!Jasonmckay515Dined on 5/10/2014Great service, great food, romantic!!!! What more can you ask for ???Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Continued Great Meals & ServiceBB13VIPDined on 5/9/2014All at our table agreed about the food being excellent and great service.Special Features:
- Graduation FriendlyRosie25Dined on 5/4/2014I love Morton's! Always a pleasure whenever I dine. We came for my father's graduation. Our server, Carlos was very attentive and nice. The manager I'm presuming, Daniel helped us make the menus personalized for the event, and he even honored substitutions to their $59.99 three course prix fixe menu because my father is a pesscatarian. All in all great location! Will recommend this to all. Thank you!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great ambiance, delicious steakMeatloverDined on 5/3/2014Morton's is one of my favorite restaurants, wine suggestion was very goodSpecial Features:


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Great Ride by WhoDey on 02/10/2008. Trim: 2004 Buick Rainier CXL Plus 2WD, Owned 4 years.
Pros: traded in my 2 year old Cadillac STS for the Rainier, the Rainier has a much better ride, also don't compare with the sister models,my wife has the 2004 GMC Envoy, hers rides like a truck in comparison. The Rainier is a very quiet ride also, I turn my lease in next month, ( 65,000 mi)the only service other than routine was for the Navigation, the whole system hade to be upgraded to the newer touch screen version,this was covered under warranty
Cons: for a $40k sticker, the dash has too much plastic, only getting 16.8 mpg, On Star has a hard time with voice sensing, cancelled after the first year.
Overall review: My last five vehicles have been STS,BMW 328,STS, Cadillac Deville and the Rainier. I would pick the Rainier as my favorite
Review ID: #523250 Is this review offensive?