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- Uri Katz
- Philadelphia, PA
- United States
This conversation is closed.
How do we make peace between Israel and Palestine?
Lets take it for granted that both sides are to blame in this conflict, and neither is going to disappear off the face of the earth any time soon.
Answers like "make love not war" would without a doubt work, but I am hoping for a little more substance.
If, like me, you think peace is only achievable in a distant future, but we have to begin working on it now, that is something I would like to hear, especially what we should be doing now.
If you know of a faster track to peace, all the better.
Closing Statement from Uri Katz
I would like to personally thank all the participants in this conversation.
I think we all recognized the immense difficulty this problem poses. At the same time, most people acknowledged that there is plenty that can be done, not all hope is lost.
Here are a few answers I collected. This is not a summary, only a list of the suggestions I think have the greatest potential to lead to peace. Each stands on it own, but together they have the most power. If we start implementing these ideas, sooner or later the reality in the region will change and a more direct path to peace will become apparent:
1. Instead of broadcasting yet another suicide bomber, give peace a chance by trumpeting every peaceful attempt by both sides.
2. Deflate the issue so that people see it not as cultural & religious issue, but as a localized dispute over resources and land. Then we can ask what a just division of these would be.
3. Recruit moderate religious leader.
4. Understand the other side as best as possible. How are they different? How we are they similar? Make sure your education is fact based and not propaganda.
5. Teach and practice forgiveness, which is key to all true conflict resolution
Also practice: Tolerance, Compassion, Acceptance, Appreciation
6. Remove all hate, and all us-them mentality, from school syllabuses.
7. Both side need to stop looking at themselves as victims. They are not victims of each other or of the larger world. They should take responsibility for their lives and actions.
8. The blame game does not help.
9. Historical arguments are usually used to advance one sided justification for violence and war, as such they are ineffective in the struggle toward peace.
10. Create joint projects such as competitive sporting events.
Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.
Feb 5 2013: How about the rule of law? In 1948 did the world decide to grant the Jews a homeland? Yes. Did the survey teams mark-out the borders of this new nation? Yes. Does anyone other than Israel have rightful claim to the marked-out real estate? No. Does Palestine have a complaint? Yes. Is Palestine's complaint Israel's responsibility? No. The same world that granted the Jews a nation of their own needs to evaluate Palestine's complaint and deal with it. Israel is protecting its land from being wrongfully taken. Every nation has the right to do that. Peace between Jews and Muslims is the real issue (which will NEVER be resolved), not just between Israel and Palestine.
Feb 5 2013: The borders demarcated in the 1948 UN resolution are not the borders of the current nation of Israel; which has expended its borders. Most debate today is about Israel returning to the borders it had before 1967, the 1948 borders are hardly mentioned.
You are right, though, that the Palestinians are not yet ready to accept a Jewish state at all, and this makes negotiations very difficult. Recent developments in Muhammad Abbas's strategy might indicate a shift in this respect, and are welcome. He seems to be devising a nonviolent protest in order to gain worldwide support for the recognition of Palestine as a state. He must realize that this can only lead to a two state solution, the world will not hand over the entire land to him.
Compromise must occur, for peace to have any chance. I personally do not think forced compromise is sustainable, though, it has to come from the people who are part of the conflict.
Feb 5 2013: Thank you for the information. How did Israel add land? This is one chapter in an entire book of conflicts between Israel and her Islamic neighbors. Solve this conflict and another is waiting. California is going to be for sale soon, perhaps Muhammad Abbas and Barack Hussein Obama can work something out? It is a serious problem and I should not joke but I am weak that way. Sorry.
Feb 6 2013: After the UN resolution the Arab coutries around Israel declaed war in an attempt to get back the land given to Israel. Israel won the war and ended up with twice as much land as they started with.
Uri KatzFeb 6 2013: The argument that land conquered in war is legitimately acquired may or may not be valid, I personally do not care. The past is the past, and today we have a problem that needs to be solved. We should apply our knowledge of history to coming up with solutions, but I do not think past events necessarily justify the present. The claim on the Palestinians side is also historical to a lare extent historical, and there too it is an obstacle to present harmony.
If we adopt the attitude of: "solve this conflict and another is waiting" we may end up in paralysis and with more of the same. That is not necessarily an unacceptable view, it definitely has good arguments and plenty of history to support it. I just believe we should give peace a chance, and do everything in our power to try and move forward.
Moving all the Israelis or Palestinians or both to California, now that is the sort of ingenious plan I was expecting from TED.
Feb 6 2013: You are correct sir, the past does not justify the present, but it explains it.
You must agree sir that we have given peace a chance. Every administration since JFK has had to deal with Peace in the Middle East and all have claimed to have achieved it, but none truly has.
I still support the rule of law. Israel owns the ground by UN grant and by spoils of war (a well-established process in human history). Palestine can try to get a UN land grant, or try again to take land by force. Isn't the real problem here the elephant in the room. . . Arabs hate Jews! It goes all the way back to Isaac and Ishmael, Sarah and Hagar, all the way to Abraham. I knew the California remark would come back to bite me.
Feb 7 2013: I am not at all sure Arabs hate Jews. See previous comments, by Ted Lover & Muhammad Aizat Zainal Alam, for 2 counterarguments.
As for respecting the rule of law. I can get behind that so long as we make the law super clear and we leave open legitimate avenues for challenging the law for those who think it is unjust. Personally, I would advocate nonviolent challenge, and not military conquest, it is has proven highly efficient time and time again, and involves less suffering.
One problem Israel might have with this approach is that there are those who claim it is in violation, or has violated, of all sorts of international laws. That is not for me to judge, but we can't expect the Palestinians will agree to accept the rule of law without having their complaints heard in a court of law.
Feb 7 2013: RE: "I am not not at all sure Arabs hate Jews."
1) While admirable, Mr. Alam's world view is rather Pollyanna.
2) Are you sure you want to recommend Mr. Lover's 3-point plan consisting of planned (assisted even) economic collapse, eradication of all religion except Atheism, and all-out warfare with the victor getting the spoils?
Feb 7 2013: 1) We can synthesis his view to: when people stop demonizing and start learning, the place of hate begins to shrink. Nobody says it will be easy to convince Hamas, Iran and Israel to teach facts rather than spew propaganda, the point is these facts have transformative powers, as is evidenced by their effect on the few individuals that encounter them.
2) No, I just referenced his point about 1,400 years (give or take a decade) of coexistence.
I can tell you from 1st hand experience that their is no shortage of Jews hating Arabs / Muslims. The point is not that this is not a problem, but that reality is much more nuanced, and that this problems can be solved.
Feb 7 2013: RE: "We can synthesis. . . "
Do you see Hamas, Iran, and Israel as the sole antagonists in this issue? This is not a localized problem perpetuated by a few combatants. This is a cultural/religious clash which will persist as long as Israel is a legal nation. If the Jews would abandon Israel and submit to another diaspora, or to genocide, then the enemies of the Jews could re-focus their priorities. By the way, how is Israel an antagonist? When has Israel ever exercised a non-defensive military action against another nation? Pre-emptive strikes do not constitute acts of hatred as does the bombing of bus loads of civilians; sneak (undeclared war) rocket attacks on major population centers; and targeting civilian locations for suicide bombings.
Feb 7 2013: I do not want to enter the blame game, I merely said there is hate on both sides.
I am not sure this is a cultural / religious issue at its core. I think it has become one over the years, because it has been used in the major East vs. West conflicts of the past 100 years (first the cold war and now the war against Al Qaeda and Iran). Maybe part of the solution is to deflate the issue and see it as a localized dispute over resources and land.
Perhaps the biggest problem is that once an issue is inflated with religious dogma it is very difficult to deflate. When each side is willing to die for what they think god wants... So another part of reaching a solution is to recruit moderate religious leader.
Feb 7 2013: RE: "I do not want to enter the blame game. . . "
Oops. Now we are too far afield from the OP and I am unqualified and unmotivated to add anything constructive. I still say the only way to appease the Arab world's resentment of the nation of Israel is to remove the nation of Israel from the middle East, or remove the Arabs. Of course neither will happen, ever. Thanks for the exchange Mr. Katz, it was invigorating. Be well sir!
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I am so glad Mark!! We love your products!!
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Davidoff Adventure Cologne
By Davidoff for Men
Davidoff Adventure Cologne by Davidoff, This is a woody fragrance composed by perfumer antoine lie for men who love to travel and was inspired by nature . Notes are mandarin, lemon, bergamot, black sesame, pimiento, maté leaves, chili black pepper, cedar wood, vetiver and white musk. All products are original, authentic name brands. We do not sell knockoffs or imitations. ... Read More
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i really love the smell, but it doesnt hold longer in hot conditions but great in cold temperatures, overall i love this Davidoff.
will also like to buy this product onlin...Read complete review
i really love the smell, but it doesnt hold longer in hot conditions but great in cold temperatures, overall i love this Davidoff.
will also like to buy this product online and you guys ship to Botswana, send as parcel, via post office, let me know if you can ship to Botswana if i buy.
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A mild adventure
I got a sample when buying another perfume. It was a great surprise. I tried other scents of Davidoff, but this one I liked. It has a sweet, dark, oriental scent. Gives...Read complete review
I got a sample when buying another perfume. It was a great surprise. I tried other scents of Davidoff, but this one I liked. It has a sweet, dark, oriental scent. Gives an adult smell, but not too old. I would recommend it for boys/men around the age of 30 - 40. With a office job you will make the blitzz!
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Comments about Davidoff Adventure Cologne:
The product advertised is Adventure COLOGNE, and the Fragrance X label said it was cologne - BUT - the Davidoff label on the box advertised the product as after shave. I returned them unopened and expect a refund shortly, but I am going to be very cautious about future purchases. Major credibility issue for me.
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Comments about Davidoff Adventure By Davidoff:
Bought this for our father. It is his favourite fragrance. We could not find it in any drug stores or department stores so we ordered online. The service from FragranceX was awesome- up to date emails, tracking service, even details about what happened at customs when the product crossed border and prompt delivery.
So happy! Will definitely order from this site again!
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I've been wearing this fragrance for a few years now. It has drawn so many compliments, that people actually come up and smell me....Even MEN ask me what I'm wearing.
This is discontinued almost everywhere tho :(
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I didn't like the smell.
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I would buy this product again and again
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Gen 6:2 The sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good, and they took wives for themselves from all those whom they chose.
Gen 6:3 And YHWH said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man; in their erring he is flesh. And his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 The giants* were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.
נפל / נפיל
nephîyl / nephil
From the root
BDB Definition:
1) to fall, lie, be cast down, fail
The word naphal is associated with miscarriages. Translated as untimely births.
Job_3:16, Psa_58:8, Ecc_6:3
There are different 'orders' of Nephilim.
Rephaim -raphah; a giant, dead, healers [Strong's ref. 7497, 7496]
Anakim – anaqiy; a desc. Of Anak, to choke, necklace [Strong's ref. 6062, '60,59]
Emim – eymiym; terrors, fright, horror, fear [Strong's ref. 367, '8]
Zuzim – zuziym; a wild beast [Strong's ref. 2104, '23]
Zamzumim – zamzom; intriguing, to plan, devise evil [Strong's ref. 2157,61]
Horim - choriy; cave dweller, troglodyte [Strong's ref. 2752]
Zophim - tsophiym; watchers, to observe, to wait for [Strong's ref. 6839, '22]
Caphtorim - kaphtoriy; to encircle, origin of the philistines [Strong's ref. 3732, '31,30]
Gammadim - gammad; a warrior, to grasp, [Strong's ref. 1575, '74]
Seirim - sayir;devil, satyr, he-goat, hairy [Strong's ref. 8163]
Shedim - shed; a devil, demon, insolence, waste [strong's ref. 7700, '36]
Nephillim - nephiyl; a giant, feller, cast down, be judged,fugitive, thrown down, fallen, an abortion [Strong's ref. 5303, '07]
Amorite -sayer, speak, word [Strong's ref. 567, 559]
The Amorites by intermarriage with the Rephaim were in "height like that of the cedars and strong as the oaks" (Amo_2:9).
Amo 2:9 Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.
"The wicked emperor Hadrian, who conquered Jerusalem, boasted, 'I have conquered
Jerusalem with great power.' Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai said to him, 'Do not boast.
Had it not been the will of Heaven, you would not have conquered it.' Rabbi Johanan
then took Hadrian into a cave and showed him the bodies of Amorites who were buried
there. One of them measured eighteen cubits [approximately 30 feet] in height. He
said, 'When we were deserving, such men were defeated by us, but now, because of our
sins, you have defeated us'" (quoted in Judaism, edited by Arthur Hertzberg, p.155-156, George Braziller, New York: 1962 & The Legends of the Jews- Louis Ginzberg pg 346 ).
Ancient Testimonies of Giants/Nephilim
"There were born the giants, famous of old, tall in stature, expert in war, God did not choose them or give them the way of knowledge. So they perished, because they had no understanding; they perished through their own folly" (Baruch 3:26-28).
Jdt 16:7 For the mighty one did not fall by the young men, neither did the sons of the Titans smite him, nor high giants set upon him: but Judith the daughter of Merari weakened him with the beauty of her countenance.
3 Maccabees 2:4 " You destroyed those who in the past committed injustice, among whom were even giants who trusted in their strength and boldness, who you destroyed by bringing on them a boundless flood."
Enoch [Chapter 7]
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
Sir 16:7 He was not pacified toward the old giants, who fell away in the strength of their foolishness.
Bar 3:26 There were the giants famous from the beginning, that were of so great stature, and so expert in war.
Bar 3:27 Those did not the Lord choose, neither gave he the way of knowledge unto them:
Bar 3:28 But they were destroyed, because they had no wisdom, and perished through their own foolishness.
3Maccabees Chapter 2
4: You destroyed those who in the past committed injustice, among whom were even giants who trusted in their strength and boldness, whom you destroyed by bringing upon them a boundless flood.
Jubilees 29:9 speaks of Gilead formerly being a land of the Rephaim whose height was from 7-10 cubits (up to 16+ ft tall)
Jubilees 29:9 speaks of the land of Gilead which was the sites of many Maccabee victories (1 Macc 5.26, 43-44; 2 Mac. 12:21,26) Edrei was Og's capital (Jos. 12:4; 13: 12, 31)
Enoch speaks of 3 types of "giants" 1 Enoch 86:4; 88:2; Jubilees 7:21-22…Giants, Naphil, Eljo
Jubilees 7
21 from fornication and uncleanness and all iniquity. For owing to these three things came the flood upon the earth, namely, owing to the fornication wherein the Watchers against the law of their ordinances went a whoring after the daughters of men, and took themselves wives of all which they
22 chose: and they made the beginning of uncleanness. And they begat sons the Naphidim, and they were all unlike, and they devoured one another: and the Giants slew the Naphil, and the
23 Naphil slew the Eljo, and the Eljo mankind, and one man another. And every one sold himself
24 to work iniquity and to shed much blood, and the earth was filled with iniquity. And after this they sinned against the beasts and birds, and all that moves and walks on the earth: and much blood was shed on the earth, and every imagination and desire of men imagined vanity and evil
25 continually. And the Lord destroyed everything from off the face of the earth; because of the wickedness of their deeds, and because of the blood which they had shed in the midst of the earth
26 He destroyed everything. 'And we were left, I and you, my sons, and everything that entered with us into the ark, and behold I see your works before me that ye do not walk in righteousness: for in the path of destruction ye have begun to walk, and ye are parting one from another, and are envious one of another, and (so it comes) that ye are not in harmony, my sons, each with his brother.
27 For I see, and behold the demons have begun (their) seductions against you and against your children and now I fear on your behalf, that after my death ye will shed the blood of men upon the earth,
28 and that ye, too, will be destroyed from the face of the earth. For whoso sheddeth man's blood, and whoso eateth the blood of any flesh, shall all be destroyed from the earth.
29 And there shall not be left any man that eateth blood,
or that sheddeth the blood of man on the earth,
Nor shall there be left to him any seed or descendants living under heaven;
For into Sheol shall they go, And into the place of condemnation shall they descend,
And into the darkness of the deep shall they all be removed by a violent death.
And after those days…
Gen 6:4 The giants* were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.
Giants in the days of Abraham
Gen 14:5 And in the fourteenth year Chedorlaomer and the kings that were with him came and struck the giants in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emim in Shaveh Kiriathaim,
In the days of Lot we see an allusion to mankind seeking sexual relations with angels.
Gen 19:5 And they called to Lot and said to him, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.
Nephilim were on the earth in the days of the Egyptian Exodus. This is important to know because it connects to the end of days. Messiah said the end of days will be like the days of Noah and Lot. The prophets speak of the end of days as being likened to the Egyptian Exodus.
Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim; and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.'
Deu 2:10 The Emim lived there in days gone by, a great and plentiful people, and tall as the Anakim;
Deu 2:11 they are reckoned to be giants (rephaim), they too, like the Anakim; but the Moabites call them Emim.
Deu 2:20 That also is accounted a land of Rephaim: Rephaim dwelt therein aforetime; but the Ammonites call them Zamzummim,
Deu 2:21 a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakim; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead;
Deu 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the Rephaim; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbah of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man. -
Deu 9:2 a people great and tall, the sons of the Anakim, whom you know, and of whom you have heard it said, Who can stand before the sons of Anak?
Jos 11:21 At that time Joshua came and cut off the Anakim from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anah, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel. Joshua completely destroyed them with their cities.
Jos 11:22 There were none of the Anakim left in the land of the sons of Israel; only some remained in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod.
Jos 12:4 and the border of Og king of Bashan, of the remnant of the Rephaim, who dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,
Jos 12:5 and ruled in mount Hermon, and in Salcah, and in all Bashan, unto the border of the Geshurites and the Maacathites, and half Gilead, even unto the border of Sihon king of Heshbon.
2Sa 21:16 And Ishbibenob, who was of the sons of Rapha the giant, the weight of his spear being three hundred bronze shekels in weight, and was girded with a new sword, even he said to strike David.
2Sa 21:18 And it happened after this that the battle was again in Gob of the Philistines. Then Sibbechai the Hushathite struck Saph, who was among the sons of Rapha.
2Sa 21:19 And again the battle was in Gob with the Philistines, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite struck one of Goliath the Gittite, and the wood of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
2Sa 21:20 And again the battle was in Gath, and there was a man of stature, and the fingers of his hands were six, and the fingers of his feet six, twenty four in number. And he also had been born to Rapha.
2Sa 21:21 And he cursed Israel; and Jonathan, the son of David's brother Shimeah, struck him.
2Sa 21:22 These four here born to Rapha the giant in Gath. And they fell by the hand of David, by the hand of his servants.
1Sa 17:4 And a champion (iysh habaniym…man between two camps referring to half man half angel descendancy) came out from the armies of the Philistines, Goliath was his name, from Gath; his height was six cubits and a span.
1Sa 17:5 And a bronze helmet was on his head, and he was clothed with scaled body armor; and the weight of the armor was five thousand shekels (156lbs) of bronze.
1Sa 17:6 And a covering of bronze was on his legs, and a javelin of bronze between his shoulders.
1Sa 17:7 And the wood of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and the blade of his spear weighed six hundred shekels of iron. And the shield bearer went before him.
His spear must be twenty six feet long, since Hector's in Homer (m) was eleven cubits, or sixteen feet and a half:
Jos 15:8 And the border went up to the valley of the son of Hinnom, to the side of the Jebusite on the south (it is Jerusalem) and the border went up to the top of the mountain which is before the valley of Hinnom westward at the far end of the Valley of the Giants northward.
Jos 18:16 And the border went down to the end of the mountain that is before the valley of the son of Hinnom, which is in the Valley of the Giants northward, and went down the valley of Hinnom to the side of the Jebusite on the south, and went down to En-rogel.
Gehenna = Gei-hinnom = Valley of Rephaim
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
gē̇-hen´a (γεέννα, geénna (see Grimm-Thayer, under the word)): Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew gē-hinnōm, "valley of Hinnom." This latter form, however, is rare in the Old Testament, the prevailing name being "the valley of the son of Hinnom."
Gehenna occurs in Mat_5:22, Mat_5:29, Mat_5:30; Mat_10:28; Mat_18:9; Mat_23:15, Mat_23:33; Mar_9:43, Mar_9:15, Mar_9:47; Luk_12:5; Jam_3:6.
In the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American) Gehenna is rendered by "hell"
That "the valley of Hinnom" became the technical designation for the place of final punishment was due to two causes. In the first place the valley had been the seat of the idolatrous worship of Molech, to whom children were immolated by fire (2Ch_28:3; 2Ch_33:6). Secondly, on account of these practices the place was defiled by King Josiah (2Ki_23:10), and became in consequence associated in prophecy with the judgment to be visited upon the people (Jer_7:32).
Hyksos and Anakim
Num 13:22 And they went up into the Negeb, and came to Hebron. And Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the sons of Anak, were there. And Hebron had been built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.
Albert Barnes commentary
Now Hebron … – This parenthesis explains that these two cities had a common founder, and were built, or perhaps, at least in the case of Zoan (Tanis, see Exo_1:8, note; Exo_2:5, note) rebuilt, by the Hyksos, to which nations, once the conquerors of Egypt, the Anakim perhaps belonged. The Hyksos fortified and garrisoned Zoan as a defense of their Eastern frontier.
If the Anakim belonged to the Hyksos, this would mean that the Hyksos had a fallen angel bloodline. This would mean that the Pharaohs at the time of Yoseph and perhaps even Moshe were descendants of the Nephilim. This is important to note because it is believed that today, most of the ruling elite descend from this same bloodline. Yah willing, I will be able to share more information on this in a future study but suffice it to say, the Nephilim topic is not antiquated information to tickle the ears. It is very relevant to today, and especially to the last generation that will see the coming of the Messiah.
Origin of Demons/evil spirits
1Enoch 15:8 Now the giants, who have been born of spirit and of flesh, shall be called upon earth evil spirits, and on earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy Watchers was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits shall they be upon earth, and the spirits of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born on earth. N24 (24) Note the many implications of vss. 3-8 regarding the progeny of evil spirits.
9 The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds, N25 which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, content, and bruise upon earth. (25) The Greek word for "clouds" here, nephelas, may disguise a more ancient reading, Napheleim (Nephilim).
10 They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall not N26 rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction. (26) Shall not. Nearly all manuscripts contain this negative, but Charles, Knibb, and others believe the "not" should be deleted so the phrase reads "shall rise up."
Enoc 16:1 And as to the death of the giants, wheresoever their spirits depart from their bodies, let their flesh, that which is perishable, be without judgment. N27 Thus shall they perish, until the day of the great consummation of the great world. A destruction shall take place of the Watchers and the impious. (27) Let their flesh…be without judgment. Or, "their flesh shall be destroyed before the judgment" (Knibb, p. 102).
Jubilee 10:1 And in the third week of this jubilee the unclean demons began to lead astray the children of
2 the sons of Noah, and to make to err and destroy them. And the sons of Noah came to Noah their father, and they told him concerning the demons which were leading astray and blinding and
3 slaying his sons' sons. And he prayed before the Lord his God, and said: 'God of the spirits of all flesh, who hast shown mercy unto me And hast saved me and my sons from the waters of the flood, And hast not caused me to perish as Thou didst the sons of perdition; For Thy grace has been great towards me, And great has been Thy mercy to my soul; Let Thy grace be lift up upon my sons, And let not wicked spirits rule over them Lest they should destroy them from the earth.
4 But do Thou bless me and my sons, that we may increase and Multiply and replenish the earth.
5 And Thou knowest how Thy Watchers, the fathers of these spirits, acted in my day: and as for these spirits which are living, imprison them and hold them fast in the place of condemnation, and let them not bring destruction on the sons of thy servant, my God; for these are malignant, and
6 created in order to destroy. And let them not rule over the spirits of the living; for Thou alone canst exercise dominion over them. And let them not have power over the sons of the righteous
7 ,8 from henceforth and for evermore.' And the Lord our God bade us to bind all. And the chief of the spirits, Mastema, came and said: 'Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them harken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.'
9 And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the
10 place of condemnation.' And one of us He commanded that we should teach Noah all their
11 medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness. And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemna-
12 tion and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth. And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he
13 might heal them with herbs of the earth. And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil spirits were precluded from
14 (hurting) the sons of Noah. And he gave all that he had written to Shem, his eldest son; for he
15 loved him exceedingly above all his sons. And Noah slept with his fathers, and was buried on
Origin of the Mystery Religions
Enoc 19:1 Then Uriel said, Here the angels, who cohabited with women, appointed their leaders;
2 And being numerous in appearance N30 made men profane, and caused them to err; so that they sacrificed to devils as to gods.
(30) Being numerous in appearance. Or, "assuming many forms" (Knibb, p. 106).
1Co 10:20 But the things the nations sacrifice, "they sacrifice to demons, and not to God." Deut. 32:17 But I do not want you to become sharers of demons;
1Co 10:21 you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and a cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord, and a table of demons.
Col 2:18 Let no one condemn you, delighting in humility and worship of the angels, pushing into things which he has not seen, being puffed up by the mind of his flesh without cause,
Deu 32:15 But Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked; you grew fat, thick and sated. And he abandoned God who made him, and fell away from the Rock of his salvation.
Deu 32:16 With strange gods they moved Him to jealousy; and with idols they provoked Him to anger.
Deu 32:17 They sacrificed to demons who were not God, to gods whom they did not know, new ones who came lately. Your fathers had not dreaded them.
Lev 17:7 And they shall not sacrifice their sacrifices any more to goats (devils), after which they have gone whoring. This is a perpetual statute to them throughout their generations.
2Ch 11:14 For the Levites had abandoned their pasture land and their property. And they came to Judah and to Jerusalem; for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them out from acting as priests to YHWH.
2Ch 11:15 And he made stand priests for himself for the high places, and for goats (devils), and for the calves that he made.
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, cleaving to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons,
Caused Israel to lose faith
Num 13:32 And they sent out an evil report of the land which they had spied out to the sons of Israel, saying, The land into which we passed, to spy it out, is a land eating up the ones living in it. And all the people we saw in its midst were men of stature.
Num 13:33 And we saw the giants there, the sons of Anak, of the giants. And we were in our own eyes as grasshoppers, and so we were in their eyes.
Tower of Babel
Sacred Books of the East Volume 1 Assyria & Babylon pg 26
The city of Babylon owes its foundation to those who were
saved from the catastrophe of the flood ; these were the giants,
and they built the tower which is noticed in history. But
the tower being overthrown by the interposition of God, the
giants were scattered over all the earth.
In Dante's Divine Comedy he portrays Nimrod as a giant. Was this the belief at that time, or merely Dante's imagination at work?
The INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA connects the constellation of Orion with Nimrod/Marduk
He who was to the Babylonians a deified hero, was to the Hebrews a rebel Titan, bound in chains among the stars that all might behold his punishment, and in this aspect the question, "Canst thou … loose the bands of Orion?" (Job_38:31) would be equivalent to asking "Canst thou bring down out of their places the stars that make up this figure and so, as it were, set the Titan free?"
In the very brief reference to Nimrod in Gen_10:8, Gen_10:9, he is three times overemphatically termed gibbōr, "a mighty (one)" and this has been the name of this constellation among Syrians, Arabs and Jews for many centuries.
Gibborim is what the giants were called in Genesis 6. However, many people have been called gibborim in the Scriptures that were not giants. History seems to suggest that Nimrod was a giant/nephilim but there is no concrete evidence for this. However, Nimrod is a picture of the antichrist who the Scriptures describe as being from the line of the Nephilim. This will be discussed in more detail in a future study, Yah willing.
In the book of Jasher, it is written that the people thought to build the tower in order to war against Adonai YHWH and ascend into heaven. 1/3 wanted to ascend and fight him, 1/3 wanted to ascend to heaven and place their own gods there and serve them, and 1/3 wanted to ascend to heaven and smite Him with bows and spears. This agrees with the battle of Armageddon in the end. The Scriptures seem to indicate that the battle of Armageddon is a rebellion against the Almighty. (See Zechariah 12:10-11; Judges 5:19-20; )
Abraham was alive during the days of Noah. According to Jasher 13:9 Abraham was 53 years old when Noah died. Abraham was 50 years old when he was first called to leave Babylon. The call to come out of Babylon is thematically connected to Abraham's call to come out of Mesopotamia and it occurred in the days of Noah.
In the book of Jasher, Abraham is put into a fiery furnace but is not killed, just as Hananiah, Mishael, Azariah. Therefore, according to ancient tradition…Nebuchadnezzar is thematically connected to Nimrod. The reason Nebuchadnezzar put the 3 Hebrew men into the fire is because they wouldn't bow down to an image, just as it is seen in Revelation 13. So too Abraham was put into the fire because he refused to worship idols. As it was in the days of Noah, so too in the days before the return of the Son of Man.
So too as in the days of the Exodus from Egypt. The Babylonians speak of the giants as the builders of the Tower of Babel. This connects to Devarim 1:28 where the Anakim built cities walled up to the heavens.
Deu 1:28 Where shall we go up? Our brothers have melted our hearts, saying, We have seen there a people greater and taller than we, cities great and walled up to the heavens, and also the sons of Anak.
Waters & the Abyss
In Genesis 36 verse 24 and odd addition of information is given about Anah. He is said to have found mules (yam) in the wilderness. The word for mules is yam which is translated in the Targum as terror. In the book of Jasher chapter 36 verse 29-35 it is told of 120 great and terrible animals that came out from the wilderness at the other side of the sea and came to the place where the mules were. These animals were in the shape of men from the middle down and in the shape of different beasts from the middle up. The animals attacked Anah so he fled to the city and related to his sons and brothers what happened to him.
Hab 3:8 Did YHWH burn against rivers? Or was Your anger against the rivers? Or Your fury against the sea? For You ride on horses; Your chariots of salvation.
In the JPS footnotes on this verse it is written "Neharim=floods & Yam=Sea were marine monsters vanquished by the LORD in hoary antiquity. On Yam see Ps 74:13; Job 7:12 Being called both Yam & Nahar figures in early Canaanite literature."
Psa 74:13 You broke the sea (yam) by Your strength; You burst the heads of sea-monsters (tanin) in the waters.
Psa 74:14 You cracked open the heads of leviathan; You gave him to be food for the people of the wilderness.
Job 7:12 Am I a sea (yam), or a sea-monster (tanin), that You set a watch over me?
Job 26:12 With His power He quiets the sea (yam), and by His understanding He shatters pride (rahab).
Rahab mystery
BDB Definition:
1) pride, blusterer
1a) storm, arrogance (but only as names)
1a1) mythical sea monster
1a2) emblematic name of Egypt
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
(רהב, rahabh, literally, "storm," "arrogance"): A mythical sea-monster, probably referred to in several passages where the word is translated as a common noun "pride" (Job_9:13), "the proud" (Job_26:12; compare Psa_89:10). It is used in parallelism with tannin, "the dragon" (Isa_51:9). It is most familiar as an emblem of Egypt, 'the boaster that sitteth still' (Isa_30:7; Psa_87:4; compare Psa_89:10). The Talmud in Bābhā' Bathrā' speaks of rahabh as sar ha-yām, "master of the sea."
Job 26:12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud (Rahab).
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Psa 87:4 I will mention Rahab and Babylon to those who know me; behold, Philistia and Tyre with Ethiopia; this man was born there.
Psa 89:10 You have broken Rahab in pieces, as one slain; You have scattered Your enemies with Your mighty arm.
Isa 51:9 Awake! Awake! Arm of YHWH, put on strength. Awake, as in days of old, everlasting generations. Was it not You cutting in pieces Rahab, and piercing the sea monster?
Isa 51:10 Was it not You drying up the sea, the waters of the great deep, who set the depths of the sea a way for the redeemed to pass?
Isa 51:11 Yea, the ransomed of YHWH shall return and come to Zion with singing, and everlasting joy shall be on their head; gladness and joy shall overtake them; sorrow and sighing shall flee.
Job 9:13 God will not withdraw His anger; the helpers of pride stoop under Him.
Isa 30:7 And Egypt; vainly and emptily they help. So I have called to this: Their strength is to sit still.
Do not rise in resurrection. The Scriptures state that the Rephaim do not rise in the resurrection yet it states that both the wicked and the righteous rise for judgment. It is clear that the Rephaim are something different then men.
Isa 26:14 Dead ones do not live; departed spirits (Rephaim) do not rise; because of this You visited and destroyed them, and caused all memory of them to perish.
Isa 26:19 Your dead ones shall live, my dead body, they shall rise up. Awake and sing, dust dwellers; for the dew of lights is your dew; and the earth shall cast out (Nafal) departed spirits (refaim).
Psa 88:10 For will You do wonders for those dying? Or shall the departed spirits rise and thank You? Selah.
Pro 9:18 But he does not know that the departed spirits are there; her guests are in the depths of hell.
Pro 21:16 The man who wanders out of the way of prudence shall rest in the congregation of departed spirits.
Yeshayahu speaks of the rephaim becoming stirred with the demons/seirim/he-goats at the coming of the lucifer.
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Connection with water
Job 26:5 Dead (rapha) things are formed (chul-writhe, twist) from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
Job 26:5 The departed spirits are made to writhe from beneath the waters, and their inhabitants.
Job 26:5 μὴ γίγαντες* μαιωθήσονται ὑποκάτωθεν ὕδατος καὶ τῶν γειτόνων αὐτοῦ;
The Targumist seems to have a notion of this, or at least refers unto it, paraphrasing the words thus,
"is it possible that the mighty men (or giants) should be created (that is, recreated or regenerated; that is, raised from the dead); seeing they are under the waters, and their armies?''
Iyov (Job) speaks of the Rephaim writing under the waters. This word for writhe is chul which can mean anxiously waiting. Waiting for the time when they will be unchained and loosed upon the earth as is spoken in Revelation 9? Interestingly the next verse chapter 26 speaks of Abaddon being uncovered. Abaddon, Apollyon in Greek is the leader of the 200 million army in Revelation 9. Apollyon comes from the Greek word apoliea which is where we get the word perdition as in son of perdition. The man of sin/antichrist/beast of Thessalonians 2 is spoken of as the son of perdition (apoleia). Coincidence?
H2342 חיל / חוּל chu^l / chi^yl
BDB Definition:
1) to twist, whirl, dance, writhe, fear, tremble, travail, be in anguish, be pained
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to dance
1a2) to twist, writhe
1a3) to whirl, whirl about
1b) (Polel)
1b1) to dance
1b2) to writhe (in travail with), bear, bring forth
1b3) to wait anxiously
1c) (Pulal)
1c1) to be made to writhe, be made to bear
1c2) to be brought forth
1d) (Hophal) to be born
1e) (Hithpolel)
1e1) whirling (participle)
1e2) writhing, suffering torture (participle)
1e3) to wait longingly
1f) (Hithpalpel) to be distressed
Rev 9:2 And he opened the pit of the abyss. And smoke went up out of the pit*, like smoke of a great furnace. And the sun was darkened, and the air, by the smoke of the pit*.
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, that is, (specifically), (infernal) "abyss": – deep, (bottomless) pit.
A variation of G899; depth, that is, (by implication) the sea: – deep.
The abyss is where the nephilim and fallen angels are enchained. This can be either under the earth or under the waters. Where do the beasts in Revelation 13 come from? They rise from the earth and the waters. In Revelation 12 the adversary and his angels are cast out of heaven and come to the earth and then the beast power rises from the sea and then from the earth.
Webster's 1828 dictionary
1.a legendary monster with a deadly glance, supposedly hatched by a serpent from the egg of a cock, and commonly represented with the head, legs, and wings of a cock and the body and tail of a serpent. compare basilisk (def. 1).
1.classical mythology. a creature, variously described as a serpent, lizard, or dragon, said to kill by its breath or look.
Notice that the cockatrice is a mixture of two animals which points back to the days of Noah and the mixture of animals as well as the mixture of mankind.
צפעני / צפע
tsepha' / tsiph'o^ni^y
BDB Definition:
1) poisonous serpent
1a) a viper snake or adder
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root meaning to extrude
Cockatrices sent during time of wormwood
Jer 8:14 Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.
Jer 8:15 We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!
Jer 8:16 The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones (abiyr-Psalm 78:25); for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein.
verse 16 is pointing to Revelation 9:7. The horses=the locusts. The neighing {מצהלה} is connected to locusts {צלצל} and his strong ones (abiyr) means angels as Psalm 78:25 states. Another indication of this connection is that they devour (akal-eat, consume) the land. This points to locust as well. Coming from Dan connects to Abaddon/Antichrist but that will need to be addressed in more detail in the future.
Jer 8:17 For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.
Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent (flying Seraph).
In the Egyptian Exodus the Targum equates the rod that was turned into a serpent as a basilisk.
And Mosheh and Aharon went in unto Pharoh, and did as the Lord had commanded. And Aharon threw down the rod before the sight of Pharoh, and before the sight of his servants, and it became a basilisk.
Webster's 1828
BAS'ILISK, n. s as z. [L. basiliscus.]
1. A fabulous serpent, called a cockatrice, and said to be produced from a cock's egg brooded by a serpent. The ancients alledged that its hissing would drive away all other serpents, and that its breath and even its look was fatal. Some writers suppose that a real serpent exists under this name.
The word for serpent in Exodus 7 is not the normal word for serpent, the word is tanniym which is usually translated as a dragon.
תּנּים / תּנּין
tanni^yn / tanni^ym
BDB Definition:
1) dragon, serpent, sea monster
Psa 74:13 You broke the sea by Your strength; You burst the heads of sea-monsters in the waters.
Eze 29:3 Speak and say, So says the Lord YHWH: Behold, I am against you, Pharaoh king of Egypt, great monster who lies in the midst of his rivers, who has said, My river is mine, and I, even I, have made it.
Eze 32:2 Son of man, lift up a lament over Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and say to him, You were like a young lion of the nations, and you were like the monster in the seas. And you burst forth in your rivers and stirred up the waters with your feet and fouled their rivers.
Eze 34:18 Is it a small thing to you to have fed on the good pasture, but you must trample the rest of your pastures with your feet? And have you drunk of the clear waters, but the rest you must foul with your feet?
Giants in history and myth
from wikipedia.org
Gog and Magog are usually considered to be giants, and are also found in the folklore of Britain.
In Hinduism, the giants are called Daityas. The Daityas (दैत्य) were the children of Diti and the sage Kashyapa who fought against the gods or Devas because they were jealous of their Deva half-brothers. Since Daityas were a power-seeking race, they sometimes allied with other races having similar ideology namely Danavas and Asuras. Daityas along with Danavas and Asuras are sometimes called Rakshasas, the generic term for a demon in Hindu mythology. Some known Daityas include Hiranyakashipu and Hiranyaksha. The main antagonist of the Hindu epic Ramayana, Ravana was a Brahmin from his father side and a Daitya from his mother side. His younger brother Kumbhakarna was said to be as tall as a mountain and was quite good natured.
Hercules faces the giant Antaios in this illustration on a calix krater, c. 515–510 BC.
Greek mythology
In Greek mythology the gigantes (γίγαντες) were (according to the poet Hesiod) the children of Uranos (Ουρανός) and Gaea (Γαία) (The Heaven and the Earth). They were involved in a conflict with the Olympian gods called the Gigantomachy (Γιγαντομαχία), which was eventually settled when the hero Heracles decided to help the Olympians. The Greeks believed some of them, like Enceladus, to lay buried from that time under the earth, and that their tormented quivers resulted in earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.
Herodotus in Book 1, Chapter 68, describes how the Spartans uncovered in Tegea the body of Orestes which was seven cubits long — around 10 feet. In his book The Comparison of Romulus with Theseus Plutarch describes how the Athenians uncovered the body of Theseus, which was of more than ordinary size. The kneecaps of Ajax were exactly the size of a discus for the boy's pentathlon, wrote Pausanias. A boy's discus was about twelve centimeters in diameter, while a normal adult patella is around five centimeters, suggesting Ajax may have been around 14 feet (~4.3 meters) tall.
Norse mythology
In Norse mythology, the giants (jötnar in Old Norse, a cognate with ettin) are often opposed to the gods. They come in different classes, such as frost giants (hrímþursar), fire giants (eldjötnar), and mountain giants (bergrisar). Jotun are different from other giants, that they usually aren't taller than most humans. The English, in lacking a proper word to describe such creatures, made use of the Greek derivative 'giants'; in a similar fashion, ogres are called trolls(pl. trolde) in Danish[citation needed].
The giants are the origin of most of various monsters in Norse mythology (e.g. the Fenrisulfr), and in the eventual battle of Ragnarök the giants will storm Asgard and defeat them in war. Even so, the gods themselves were related to the giants by many marriages, and there are giants such as Ægir, Loki, Mímir and Skaði, who bear little difference in status to them.
Norse mythology also holds that the entire world of men was once created from the flesh of Ymir, a giant of cosmic proportions, which name is considered by some to share a root with the name Yama of Indo-Iranian mythology.
A bergrisi appears as a supporter on the coat of arms of Iceland.
In folklore from all over Europe, giants were believed to have built the remains of previous civilizations. Saxo Grammaticus, for example, argues that giants had to exist, because nothing else would explain the large walls, stone monuments, and statues that we now know were the remains of Roman construction. Similarly, the Old English poem Seafarer speaks of the high stone walls that were the work of giants. Even natural geologic features such as the massive basalt columns of the Giant's Causeway on the coast of Northern Ireland were attributed to construction by giants. Giants provided the least complicated explanation for such artifacts.
In Basque mythology, giants appear as jentilak and mairuak (Moors), and were said to have raised the dolmens and menhirs. After Christianization, they were driven away, and the only remaining one is Olentzero, a coalmaker that brings gifts on Christmas Eve.
Medieval romances such as Amadis de Gaul feature giants as antagonists, or, rarely, as allies. This is parodied famously in Cervantes' Don Quixote, when the title character attacks a windmill, believing it to be a giant. This is the source of the phrase tilting at windmills.
Tales of combat with giants were a common feature in the folklore of Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Celtic giants also figure in Breton and Arthurian romances, and from this source they spread into the heroic tales of Torquato Tasso, Ludovico Ariosto, and their follower Edmund Spenser. In the small Scottish village of Kinloch Rannoch, a local myth to this effect concerns a local hill that apparently resembles the head, shoulders, and torso of a man, and has therefore been termed 'the sleeping giant'. Apparently the giant will awaken only if a specific musical instrument is played near the hill.
Many giants in British folklore were noted for their stupidity.[1] A giant who had quarreled with the Mayor of Shrewsbury went to bury the city with dirt; however, he met a shoemaker, carrying shoes to repair, and the shoemaker convinced the giant that he had worn out all the shoes coming from Shrewsbury, and so it was too far to travel.[2]
Other British stories told of how giants threw stones at each other. This was used to explain many great stones on the landscape.[3]
Giants figure in a great many fairy tales and folklore stories, such as Jack and the Beanstalk, The Giant Who Had No Heart in His Body, Nix Nought Nothing, Robin Hood and the Prince of Aragon, Young Ronald, and Paul Bunyan. Ogres and trolls are humanoid creatures, sometimes of gigantic stature, that occur in various sorts of European folklore. An example of another folklore giant is Rübezahl, a kind giant in German folklore who lived in the Giant Mountains (nowadays on the Czech-Polish border).
Giants in the West
Aside from mythology and folklore (see Tall tales), remains of giants have been claimed to have been found in America. Giants are usually classified as human-like remains that are 7′ 5″ (2.26 meters) or more in height. The book Forbidden Land by Robert Lyman (1971) recounts the following alleged finds:
* A decayed human skeleton claimed by eyewitnesses to measure around 3.28 metres (10 feet 9 inches tall), was unearthed by labourers while ploughing a vineyard in November 1856 in East Wheeling, now in West Virginia.
* A human skeleton measuring 3.6 metres (12 feet) tall was unearthed at Lompock Rancho, California, in 1833 by soldiers digging in a pit for a powder magazine. The specimen had a double row of teeth and was surrounded by numerous stone axes, carved shells and porphyry blocks with abstruse symbols associated with it.
* Several mummified remains of humans with reddish hair claimed to range from 2-2.5 metres (6.5 feet to over 8 feet) tall were dug up at Lovelock Cave, (70 miles) north-east of Reno, Nevada, by a guano mining operation. These bones supposedly substantiated claims for legends by the local Paiute Indians regarding giants which they called Si-Te-Cah. However, there appear to be no verified Paiute legends about giants or that call the Si-Te-Cah giants [4]. Some of these artifacts can also be found in the Nevada State Historical Society's museum at Reno. Adrienne Mayor states that these skeletons are normal sized.[5] She also points out that hair pigment does not stay stable after death, and that ancient very dark hair can turn rusty red or orange due to a variety of conditions such as soil condition, temperature, etc.
* A 9′ 11″ (3.02 meters) skeleton was unearthed in 1928 by a farmer digging a pit to bury trash in Tensas Parish, Louisiana near Waterproof. In 1931 a 10′ 2″ (3.1 meters) skeleton was unearthed by a boy burying his dog in 1933 in Nearby Madison Parish.
Aside from in Forbidden Land, we can find other unverified examples or legends about the remains of giants:
* A 9′ 8″ (2.95 meters) skeleton was excavated from a mound near Brewersville, Indiana in 1879 (Indianapolis News, November 10, 1975).
* In Clearwater, Minnesota, the skeletons of seven giants were found in mounds. These had receding foreheads and complete double dentition[citation needed]
* A mound near Toledo, Ohio, held 20 skeletons, seated and facing east with jaws and teeth "twice as large as those of present day people", and beside each was a large bowl with "curiously wrought hieroglyphic figures." (Chicago Record, October 24, 1895; cited by Ron G. Dobbins, NEARA Journal, v13, fall 1978).
* Near the city of Thunder Bay, Ontario there is a span of mountains five miles long that is in the shape of a man wearing a headdress lying down on his back. The span is called "The Sleeping Giant" from local Ojibway legend that identifies the giant as Nanabijou, the spirit of the Deep Sea Water, who was turned to stone when the secret location of a rich silver mine, now known as Silver Islet, was disclosed to white men. [6]
* Patagons of Patagonia in South America, are giants claimed to have been seen by Ferdinand Magellan and his crew.[7] Drake reported only finding people of 'mean stature'[8] although his Chaplain reported giants. However, even before Magellan, a Spanish romance called Primaleón of Greece was published in 1512 in which a dashing explorer discovers savages, one named Patagon, whose descriptions are very similar to those of Magellan.[9]
Names/Races of Giants
* Daitya (Sanskrit)
* Gigantes (Greek)
* Titans (Greek)
* Cyclopes/Cyclops (Greek)
* Upelleru (Middle Eastern)
* Azrail (Armenian)
* Anakim (Hebrew)
* Enim (Hebrew)
* Rephaim (Hebrew)
* Zamzummim (Hebrew)
* Nephilim (Hebrew)
* Gog (Hebrew/British)
* Magog (Hebrew/British)
* Jake (Bruns)
* Goliath of Gath (Hebrew)
* Og of Bashan (Hebrew)
* Fomorians (Celtic)
* Wrnach (Welsh)
* Bendigeidfran (Welsh)
* Jotuns (Norse/Teutonic)
* Frost Giants (Norse/Teutonic)
* Fire Giants (Norse/Teutonic)
* Earth Giants (Norse/Teutonic)
* Ice Giants (Finnish)
* Yak (Thai)
* Puntan (Micronesia)
* Albadan (Spanish)
* Famangomadan (Spanish)
* Dehotgohsgayeh (Iroquois)
* Gedegwsets (Coos)
* Inugpasugssuk (Netslik)
* Kiwahkw (Maliseet)
* Yeitso (Navajo)
* Nunhyunuwi (Cherokee)
* Si-Te-Cah (Paiute)
* Dzoo-Noo-Qua (Kwakiutl)
* Nahgane (Slavey)
* Chahnameed (Pequot)
* Paul Bunyan (USA)
* Hewiixi/hewietari (Huichol)
* Cawr (Welsh)
* Kaour (Breton)
* Dasa Maha Yodayo (Sri Lanka)
* Gotaimbara (Sri Lanka)
* Mahasena (Sri Lanka)
* Higante also Kapre (Talgalog) and Agta (Visayan) (Philippines)
* Kæmpe (Danish)
* Jättar (Swedish)
Steve Quayle's website is a great source of the history of giants
|Present day modern man which averages about 6-feet tall + or – several inches or more.
|15-foot human skeleton found in southeast Turkey in late 1950's in the Euphrates valley during road construction. Many tombs containing giants were uncovered here. This pertains to the picture of the giant human femur and myself above.
|Maximinus Thrax Ceaser of Rome 235-238 A.D. This was an 8′ 6″ skeleton.
|Goliath was about 9 feet + or – a few inches. I Samuel 17:4 late 11th century.
|King Og spoken of in Deuteronomy 3:11 whose iron bedstead was approximately 14-feet by 6-feet wide. King Og was at least 12-feet tall, yet some claim up to 18.
|A 19'6″ human skeleton found in 1577 A.D. under an overturned oak tree in the Canton of Lucerne.
|23-foot tall skeleton found in 1456 A.D. beside a river in Valence, France.
|A 25′ 6 " skeleton found in 1613 A.D. near the castle of Chaumont in France. This was claimed to be a nearly complete find.
|Almost beyond comprehension or believability was the find of the two separate 36-foot human remains uncovered by Carthaginians somewhere between 200-600 B.C.
Source for the above information:
Joe Taylor, Mt. Blanco Fossil Museum
124 West Main St., P.O. Box 550, Crosbyton, TX 79322
(805) 675-7777 (office) and (806) 675-2421 (fax)
Connection to the Mark of the Beast
John Gill commentary on Amos 5:26
the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves; or the star "your god" (q); meaning the same with Chiun or Saturn; perhaps the same with the star that fell from the air or sky, mentioned by Sanchoniatho (r); which Astarte, the wife of Chronus or Saturn, is said to take and consecrate in Tyre; this they made for themselves, and worshipped as a deity. The Targum is,
"ye have borne the tabernacle of your priests, Chiun your image, the star your God, which ye have made to yourselves."
It may be further observed, for the confirmation and illustration of what has been said concerning Chiun, that the Egyptian Anubis, which Plutarch (x) says is the same with Saturn, is called by him Kyon, which seems to be no other than this word Chiun: and whereas Stephen calls it Rephan, this is not a corruption of the word, reading Rephan or Revan for Chevan; nor has he respect to Rimmon, the god of the Syrians, but it is the Egyptian name for Saturn; which the Septuagint interpreters might choose to make use of, they interpreting for the king of Egypt: and Diodorus Siculus (y) makes mention of an Egyptian king called Remphis, whom Braunius (z) takes to be this very Chiun; see Act_7:43; but Rephas, or Rephan, was the same with Chronus, or Saturn, from whence came the Rephaimclick here
(a), who dwelt in Ashtaroth Karnaim, a town of Ham or Chronus; see Gen_14:5.
John Gill connects the Rephaim to Saturn. The 'star of David'/seal of Solomon' is the star of Saturn. This is very much connected to the mark of the beast spoken of by the Apostle Yochanan.click here
Notice the symbol above Saturn/Chronus' head.
This study and the previous fallen angel studyclick here are to set the foundation to establish that fallen angels did mix with women and bring forth nephilim. They played an integral part in mankind's history, especially in the days of Noahclick here and the exodus from Egypt. The Scriptures state that these are the two time periods to look at to understand the end times because they will be repeated. (Matthew 24:37; Micah 7:15 etc)
click here


text: Lansing Police continue their search for a light blue Chevy Cruze with front end damage that was likely involved in a hit and run that killed a bicyclist around 11:30 Monday night. The accident happened about 100 yards from Sparrow Hospital near the corner of Pennsylvania and Michigan Ave. The 69-year-old biker was riding in the road, police say. The man died an hour later at Sparrow.


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Building the Perfect 404 Error
January 17, 2004
Ian Lloyd's article on building the perfect 404 error is wonderful. Now, if only I had control over our web server, perhaps I could employ some of these suggetions… Alas, part of being a county library is that our site sits on the county server. I think it's the same pretty much everywhere. But, for those of you lucky ducks who do run your own server, this article will prove to be most helpful.


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Celebrities continue to react with a mix off shock and sadness Tuesday at the news that actor Robin Williams took his own life on Aug. 11. Here are a few of their statements:
Welcome to your discussion forum: Click the login link below to sign in with or to set up a Disqus account or to access your social networking account. When you do, your comment should be posted immediately, provided it meets the guidelines. (What are the guidelines?.) Report abuse by flagging a comment (mouse over the comment). Comments made here are the sole responsibility of the person posting them; these comments do not reflect the opinion of The Brattleboro Reformer. So keep it civil.
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Florida woman flies plane on 90th birthday
PALM COAST, Fla. (AP) — A central Florida woman celebrated her 90th birthday by flying a four-seat Cessna. Full Story
Getting animals to dazzle on screen is a wild job
LOS ANGELES (AP) — For animal trainers on film sets, the job can be wild. Getting snakes on a plane takes a bit of heat or light, but cajoling a bear to perform for the camera can require buckets of fried chicken. Full Story
(Jordan Strauss)
Eva Mendes and Ryan Gosling become parents
'The Place Beyond the Pines' co-stars have a little girl.


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5 Foreign Stocks That Could Pop This Summer
BALTIMORE ( Stockpickr) -- "Buy American" has been a good catchphrase for investors in 2012. Even though the S&P 500's performance hasn't exactly been awe-inspiring of late, it's been a whole lot better than its foreign equivalents. While S&P's up around 4.5% so far this year, the MSCI Emerging Markets Index is down 2% and change on the year.
Emerging markets aren't alone. The MSCI EAFE Index, a world index, is down more than 4% so far this year. From the eurozone debt crisis to softening economies in markets like China, there's reason to steer clear of foreign stocks right now. But that doesn't mean that they're good reasons.
>>5 Stocks Set to Soar on Bullish Earnings
And now, with investor aversion to the risks of foreign stocks reaching highs, a handful of big overseas names are poised to pop from a short squeeze. Here's everything you need to know to take advantage:In case you're not familiar with the term, a "short squeeze" is the buying frenzy that ensues when a heavily shorted stock starts to look attractive again to investors, causing share price to skyrocket. One of the best indicators of just how high a short-squeezed stock could go is the short interest ratio, which estimates the number of days it would take for short-sellers to cover their positions. The higher the short ratio, the higher the potential profits when the shorts get squeezed. >>ACTIVE STOCK TRADERS: Check out Stockpickr's special offer for Real Money, headlined by Jim Cramer, now! Naturally, these plays aren't without their blemishes -- there's a reason (economic or otherwise) that these stocks are being heavily shorted. But for investors looking for exposure to a speculative play with a beefier risk/reward tradeoff, these could be powerful upside plays for the coming year. Without further ado, here's a look at our list of foreign short squeeze opportunities.
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Petar Kodzas, guitar
Kinloch Nelson, guitar
Bob Sneider, guitar
This trio delivers a guitar players' smorgasbord of Latin, jazz, classical, blues, folk, Celtic and ragtime to strike one's fancy.
Event Info
- Ticket Information:
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Contact Information:
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Peak performance
It's certainly not all work and no play at Passford. As well as our on-site leisure facilities – not to mention a garden big enough to get lost in – we can arrange group team-building activities to help you let off steam.
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Sean Parnell
Associated Press
News about Sean Parnell, including commentary and archival articles published in The New York Times.
Alaska: National Guard Head Resigns
Gov. Sean Parnell said Thursday that he had requested and received the resignation of Thomas Katkus, the adjutant general of the Alaska National Guard.
September 5, 2014, Friday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Katkus, Thomas H , Parnell, Sean , Alaska , National Guard , Sex Crimes
Alaska Race Sees Democrat Quit Campaign for Governor
Byron Mallott said he would withdraw and run instead for lieutenant governor alongside an independent candidate, Bill Walker.
September 3, 2014, Wednesday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Alaska , Mallott, Byron I , Walker, Bill , Parnell, Sean , Midterm Elections (2014) , Elections, Governors , United States Politics and Government , Democratic Party , Republican Party
2 Alaskans Weigh Uniting in Race Against Governor
The two challengers to Gov. Sean Parnell are discussing merging their campaigns, with neither seen as being able to win a three-way race with the incumbent.
September 2, 2014, Tuesday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Alaska , Mallott, Byron I , Walker, Bill , Parnell, Sean , Midterm Elections (2014) , Democratic Party , Republican Party , Elections, Governors
Alaska Referendum Upholds Tax System for Oil Companies
A hard-fought ballot referendum that would have overturned Alaska's system of taxing oil industry profits has narrowly failed, with absentee ballots determining the outcome.
August 28, 2014, Thursday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Alaska , Corporate Taxes , Oil (Petroleum) and Gasoline , Referendums , Parnell, Sean
Oil Industry's Taxes Create Odd Wedge for Alaskan Voters
Former Gov. Sarah Palin and her successor, who served as her lieutenant, have become rivals over a ballot measure to be decided on Tuesday.
August 18, 2014, Monday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Oil (Petroleum) and Gasoline , Alaska , Referendums , Tax Credits, Deductions and Exemptions , Begich, Mark , Palin, Sarah , Parnell, Sean
Alaska Lawmakers Back Natural Gas Plans
Alaska's legislature on Monday approved Gov. Sean Parnell's plan to join four energy companies in moving ahead on plans to build infrastructure to transport and market 35 trillion cubic feet of North Slope gas to be shipped by an 800-mile...
April 22, 2014, Tuesday
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Alaska: Pension Plan Would Tap State Savings
Gov. Sean Parnell will urge in his fiscal 2015 budget plan that the state tap $3 billion in one of its savings accounts to pay down $11.9 billion unfunded liability in Alaska's two largest pension funds.
December 6, 2013, Friday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Illinois , Alaska , Quinn, Patrick J , Government Employees , Budgets and Budgeting , Parnell, Sean , Pensions and Retirement Plans
Alaska Democrats See a Palin Legacy They Can Like
Efforts to repeal a new, more lenient tax law on oil profits in Alaska are stirring up a strange political cocktail, in which Democrats find themselves backing Sarah Palin.
November 28, 2013, Thursday
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Alaska: Medicaid Expansion Rejected
Gov. Sean Parnell on Friday rejected calls to expand Medicaid in Alaska citing cost concerns.
November 16, 2013, Saturday
MORE ON SEAN PARNELL AND: Parnell, Sean , Medicaid , Health Insurance and Managed Care , Alaska
U.S. Declares a Disaster for Fishery in Northeast
The Commerce Department issued a formal disaster declaration that could pave the way for financial relief for the battered industry and the communities that depend on it.
September 14, 2012, Friday
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A number of short films provide an insight into the SDC's mission
(inculsive Statistics Brochure)
What are the new strategic orientations of Switzerland's international cooperation? Which principles guide and which instruments are applied in Switzerland's international cooperation?
Strategy 2013–2016
Multilateral cooperation
Multilateral cooperation is an important element of Swiss development cooperation. Thanks to their long years of experience and considerable resources, multilateral organisations – such as international financial institutions, UN agencies and development banks – make an important contribution to solving problems affecting developing countries worldwide. Some 37% of all Swiss development cooperation funds are disbursed to such organisations in the form of general financial assistance (known as core contributions). Bilateral cooperation accounts for 63%. One fifth of these bilateral funds are used for projects that are directly implemented by multilateral organisations on the ground.
Multilateral cooperation boosts Switzerland's image abroad and creates favourable conditions for strengthening cooperation with other countries and international networks.
Why does Switzerland support the work of international organisations?
Global challenges have a particularly strong impact on poor countries and demand global solutions. Multilateral organisations can meet these transnational challenges effectively.
How does Switzerland work with multilateral organisations?
In its work with multilateral organisations, Switzerland offers expertise, technical support and funding.
Which organisations does Switzerland work with?
Switzerland mainly works with 13 multilateral organisations and five multilateral humanitarian aid organisations.
In the spotlight
The multilateral Accent, March 2014
United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East
|Switzerland's support in Nepal
"The elections are an important step in the ongoing peace process in Nepal"
On 19 November 2013 elections will take place in Nepal for a new constituent assembly. In an interview, Ambassador Urs Herren explains how and why Switzerland is committed to a sustainable political system in Nepal.
30.10.2013: United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) State of World Population Report 2013
State of World Population Report
New York, 23–27.9.2013
The Multilateral Accent: September 2013 edition
The Multilateral Accent: September 2013 [fr]
Bern: 12.8.2013
Geneva: 1-26 July 2013
Geneva: 1 - 2 July 2013
|Activity in multilateral organisations
The benefits of Switzerland's presence
The number of Swiss employees in multilateral development organisations is increasing. This leads to extensive networks that can be used to exchange competences, to establish a greater international presence and to benefit from opportunities in the private sector. The June edition of " Multilaterale Akzente (Multilateral Accents)" illustrates the benefits of this increased presence for Switzerland. A series of short films describes the work of employees of UN organisations in Geneva.
Multilateral Accent, June 2013 [fr]
|What will happen until 2015 – and beyond?
Seeking new development and sustainability goalsOn 5 April 2013, the countdown for the Millennium Development Goals has begun, signalling 1000 days until the final deadline expires in 2015. What will happen after that? This question is already in the focus of Switzerland and the international community as a whole.
New Publication
Multilateral Humanitarian Aid Concept


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I now have a Pentax Kr camera and so far so good, i'm finding my way around it fine. However the software i got with the camera ( SilkyPix ) is not easy to use at all. Is it just me being dumb or is this software a pain in the butt. I have just gone back to using Windows Photo gallery because i find it easier to use and understand. Maybe i'm being alittle hasty but i was wandering if anyone else had been finding SilkyPix hard work ?
Last Modified By
cameracat at 14 Dec 2011 - 11:56 PM
Quote: Is it just me being dumb or is this software a pain in the butt.
LOL.... You Are Not Alone......
To be fair I have not looked at Silky Pix since it was just out of BETA testing, That said when I did check it out some years back, I thought at the time " Crikey This Software Is A Right Pain In The Nether Regions " , It was uninstalled from my computer, Never to darken my hard drives again......
Sounds like it has not changed that much.....
If your looking for a decent RAW handling software that is not to exepnsive, Check Out " Phase Ones " Capture One 6 Express......!!!
I think they are doing some reasonable deals price wise at the Mo..... You can download and try before you buy as well......
Windows Photo Gallery is not to bad for a freebie, It does have its limitations though......!!!
I had a copy with a Panasonic Lumix LX3, its their RAW software....hated it.....I use Elements 9....stuart
When I was looking to buy raw editing software I downloaded free trials of SilkyPix, Capture NX2 and LightRoom 3. SilkyPix was ok but I didn't feel it was very intuitive. Capture NX2 just crashed all the bleedin' time and LR3 just blew my socks off by how good it was. I then got a free version of Capture One 6 which I really didn't like - by this time I had LR3 and it was going to take a lot to get me to like anything more than it.
Curiously I now have another piece of raw editing software which I think is great - Faststone. I only downloaded it because I wanted a quick and easy picture viewer but then discovered just how good it was as a raw editor. It's not a patch on LR3 but given that it's free it really is brilliant. It is worth a try because it's good and it's free.
Quote: raw editing software which I think is great - Faststone.
I like that too.
Normally, I convert my RAWs using Lightroom but I sometimes use FastStone if I just want to do a quick job.
Aside from that, it's really useful for resizing, applying watermarks or logos etc. in batches.
I agree with others that Faststone is brilliant for what it is. There is no noise reduction facility when converting RAW files, but after conversion, another freebie is good for this,"Noiseware" by Imagenomic.Last Modified By rhol2 at 18 Dec 2011 - 9:24 PM
Another vote for "Noiseware."
I used it all the time before I got "Lightroom."
Be careful not to overdo it though because although it's very good at removing noise, it's also quite capable of removing a lot of detail.
Try a few variations in the settings on some copies of your images and you'll see what I mean.
Also, some of the pre-sets work quite well in a general sort of a way.
Bloggs, I think you might be confusing Silkypix with the softwarethat Pentax supplies with their cameras, it is based on the Silkypix Raw conversion engine, but the GUI is all Pentax. Pentax make brilliant cameras but their software is pathetic. On the other hand Silkypix Pro as written by the ISL company has always been one of my favourite Raw converters. Conversely I am always surprised at how many people love Lightroom. At 66years I am fairly set in my ways and don`t like software that tells me how I should import, categorise and edit MY photos on MY computer. Oh and it`s the least intuitive software I have ever used untill I tried PHOTIVO, which is free and if you ever get to suss it out it is one of the best.
Hi Simmo ... thanks for your comments, the "silkypix" i refered to was the one i got in the box with the camera. It's the only one i know of but it sounds like they have more versions . anyway i did get "Faststone" after being adviced it was FREE and a easy to use and i'm very very impressed with it up to now. I don't have LR yet but i may get it one day, but for now for my humble standard as a newbie to thius game "Faststone " seems fine. However i will try PHOTIVO seems it's a free kit and seee whats it's like. Thanks for your time Sam
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