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Money Myths and the Importance of Thinking for Yourself
Published on - April 27th, 2010 (Modified on - January 27th, 2014) (by J.D. Roth)
When I sat down to write Your Money: The Missing Manual, I knew I wanted to start with a chapter on happiness. (Well, to be fair, I was going to conclude the book with this chapter; my editor suggested moving it to the beginning, which was a stroke of genius.) In particular, I wanted to make the point that money doesn't buy happiness. Because we all know that's true, right?
Well, not so much, as it turns out.
Can Money Buy Happiness?
As I wrote the chapter, I found that I had trouble locating data to support my hypothesis. There were plenty of people (including me) who loudly proclaimed that money and happiness were unrelated, and their arguments were persuasive, but none of these folks ever offered numbers to support their case.
In fact, the more I read, the more I realized they were wrong. And so was I. The numbers actually show the opposite. Money does buy happiness; researchers have found a strong correlation between increased wealth and increased contentment. In their book Happiness, Ed Diener and Robert-Biswas Diener write: "Rich people and nations are happier than their poor counterparts; don't let anyone tell you differently."
But the authors don't just make the claim — Diener and his son had the numbers to back up their position. Though it's a widely-held belief, it's a myth that happiness and money are unrelated.
Sometimes, as in the case of this money/happiness stuff, money myths are just plain wrong. Other times they sprout from a grain of truth.
Do People Spend More When Using Credit?
Financial guru Dave Ramsey often cites a Dun and Bradstreet study that purportedly reveals people spend more with credit than with cash. I'd always accepted his claim as true, and hadn't bothered to double-check it. But when I was researching the credit chapter for my book, I had to do more than just take things on faith. I had to find actual sources.
Nobody I know has been able to track down this mythical Dun and Bradstreet study. Even Dun and Bradstreet themselves have been unable to locate it. GRS reader Nicole (with the assistance of her trusty librarian Wendi) contacted the company and received this response: "After doing some research with D&B, it turns out that someone made up the statement, and also made up the part where D&B actually said that."
In other words, the study doesn't exist.
So why do Dave Ramsey and a host of others cite it? Who knows? It's tough to trace the origin of urban legends, but that didn't stopped Nicole and Wendi from digging further. They kept searching for the source of the D&B myth. Eventually, they succeeded.
Turns out, this "fact" doesn't come from a study at all. Instead, it's from a short (739 word) article in the March/April 1993 issue (vol42, no2) of D&B Reports (which is no longer published). The article, written by Robert J. Klein, a founding editor of Money magazine, isn't available on the web, but I was recently able to read a copy.
It doesn't say what people (including Dave Ramsey) claim it says. Here's an excerpt:
Well-run businesses borrow money to finance plant, equipment and research. They do not borrow to pay operating expenses. Families should do the same. They should borrow to buy a house to live in, a washer and dryer to keep house more efficiently, a car for transportation to work, a college education for the kids. They should borrow to refinance existing debts at lower rates. They may even borrow to start or expand a family business. On principal, though, they should never borrow to pay for living expenses.
Sure, the article advocates against overuse of credit, but it doesn't say anything about people spending more with credit than without.
My point isn't that Dave Ramsey is wrong about this idea. My point is that he's citing a bogus study, and then hundreds (or thousands) of others are subsequently accepting what he says as gospel. My point is this: It always pays to question what you hear, and to do your own research. (You should even question me. I do my best to provide accurate information, but I'm only human.)
So What?
Why care about this stuff? Why bother to fact-check seemingly harmless claims about money? For some people, it may not matter. But as I try to build a unified financial philosophy, it's important to know that I'm basing my beliefs on reality, and not on a bunch of conventional wisdom. I'm learning to question assumptions that I've held for a long time. Not all of them are correct.
For example, like most Americans, I used to believe that real estate always increased in value. As we've seen over the past five years, however, that's just not the case. (In fact, over the long term, both gold and real estate are relatively poor investments, barely offering any return above inflation.)
I recently polled my followers on Twitter (at both the @jdroth and @getrichslowly accounts) for other examples of money myths that smart people ought to question. Here are some of the more notable responses:
- Several readers don't like the notion that "debt is a tool" or that "you need credit". You can live in a modern world without credit, even though plenty of folks will try to convince you it's impossible.
- @ericabiz said: "Worst one: When people think that being poor is somehow virtuous, and rich = evil or taking advantage of others. It's pervasive." @mile73 said something similar: "If someone has 'a lot' of money, it couldn't be because they worked hard to get it. It must be because they lucked into it." These myths are most succinctly stated by @budgetsaresexy, who wrote that he dislikes the idea that "Money is for greedy people." I agree. It's not wrong to be rich, folks. Money isn't a bad thing.
- On a related note, many readers complained about the oft-cited Biblical quote, "Money is the root of all evil." They pointed out that it's the love of money that's considered the root of all evil.
- @crunchysue thinks it's a myth that "You can plan on your salary increasing throughout your lifetime." This highlights how statistics can be deceiving. In general, salaries as a whole will probably increase over time. But that doesn't mean your salary will always increase. It's important to budget on what you actually earn, and not what you hope to earn in the future.
- @mile73 doesn't like when people say, "There's no point in saving. You could get sick and lose it all." This one bugs me, too. It's the whole "you can't take it with you" mentality. Just because you might get sick, and just because you can't take your wealth with you when you die, this doesn't mean you shouldn't save. Balance, people, balance!
- @extremejacob doesn't like the myth that frugal is the same as cheap. He also doesn't like that most people measure standard of living in terms of spending and consumption.
- A number of readers hate the popular belief that buying a home is always better than renting. As we saw recently, sometimes renting makes sense.
- @chicagoelevated wrote that she's fed up with the idea that if you do what you love, the money will follow. She's pursuing a career in something she's passionate about, but she's seen first hand that hard work isn't always profitable. (Still, I think it's also bad to put up with a job you hate just to get a fat paycheck.)
- @creditgoddess wrote: " I don't like: 'A bad credit rating stays with you for life.' Sure, if you don't change habits, but it will improve if you work at it."
- Several folks hate shopping "myths". @ambermae hates, "The more you buy, the more you save." @moneyhighway agrees, as does @weathershenker who notes that if a sign says "Save 15%", you are spending 85%: "Sales can be good, but if you truly want to save, don't spend!" Great advice.
A couple of other folks dropped me notes by e-mail. For example, Claire wrote:
When I was in college, I found out what a bunch of bull "You'll appreciate it more if you pay for it yourself" was. I was fortunate to not have to take out loans, but I saw close friends struggle with paying for tuition since they had no support. We all valued our education equally. I didn't screw around & party and waste my opportunity at college; neither did my friends.
Think For Yourself
This has been a long post to make a simple point: Don't just accept conventional wisdom, and don't blindly heed the advice of financial "experts". Listen to this stuff, sure, and consider it. But think for yourself. Do your own research. When you hear somebody make a claim — even if it's somebody you trust — seek independent verification before you make life decisions based on the information.
Do this for blogs (including this one), but also do it for books and magazines. The more you learn, the better you'll be able to spot errors and fallacies and situations that don't apply to you. You'll also find it easier to question sources that you once considered authoritative.
Remember: Nobody cares more about your money than you do. If you don't take the time to double-check the financial advice you receive (in person, in books, and in blogs), then there's a good chance you'll end up in financial trouble. Be smart, and look out for yourself.
What do you think of the money myths I've mentioned here? Are they myths? What myths bug you the most? Has a money myth ever led you into financial trouble? (I suspect that quite a few GRS readers have been hurt by the "your home will always increase in value" myth.) And, most of all, how do you learn to separate fact from fiction?
This article is about Choices, Gurus, Odds and Ends
The whole "real estate is an investment" thing gets me. I may buy a house/flat soon. But you know what? I'll be buying it for what is, when you come down to it, its primary purpose. Because, and I know this may sound radical, I plan to live in it.
This brings me on to the concept of "negative equity". Sure, it sucks that you may owe more than your house is worth *right now*. But unless you are actually planning to move or sell today, or you can't make your repayments, it's meaningless.
Houses are for living in. If, when it comes to selling time, you've made a profit, all well and good. But that is *not* the primary purpose of a home.
I really enjoyed this post. The Dave Ramsey one is kinda interesting to me since I've started going through parts of his Total Money Makeover. Actually, there are a few things that, while I see his point, I probably won't do at least not yet.
This concept really should be applied to everything you hear, especially regarding anything that is based on a statistic. Statistics, like money, are not inherently good or bad. But a study that is poorly set up or samples that are poorly chosen, can skew the data one way or the other, or (maybe more often) skew the data in the direction that favors the group who's paying for the study. (That's not being overly cynical is it?)
You will, likely, never get a purely unbiased, objective reporting of facts. But if you dig a little and ask the right questions, you can usually find something close to the truth.
Wow, you really did a lot of research, JD! I know sometimes when I spend money I feel happier. Nothing wrong with that, right?!
Yes, I have seen many times how a certain phrase or number is taken for truth when its source is clouded in mystery, and is, at best, an exaggerated estimate – it certainly applies to several social causes I am involved in. Can be really misleading and even damaging.
My family comes from the former Soviet Union and I have seen with my own eyes how much the convenience of Western appliances changes a lifestyle, freeing time and energy for other things. You certainly need money for that.
As for questioning the established truths:
To me, the idea of establishing an emergency fund before you paid down a high interest debt is ridiculous. Emergency is a possibility. The high interest on the debt is certainty. While you are building that fund for something that may not happen, your debt is increasing.
Of course, this thinking is only valid if you could borrow the expected amount at the same or lower rate should an emergency happen – if you can't, then I fully agree with the need to establish an emergency fund first.
JD, this post is an example of why I check out your blog every day. You really did your homework! I'm personally tired of the "money can't buy happiness" myth. In my own experience, money can buy all sorts of things that are conducive to happiness. With money, things like a busted hot water heater or a health emergency are mere inconveniences rather than disasters. It buys comfort, options, peace of mind, and experiences. I find it more pleasurable and satisfying to be frugal by choice instead of by necessity. I can't remember who said it, but I agree with the quote "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."
An established 'truth' I dislike is "experiences are worth more than products". I find that this is often untrue, and you can't control which experiences remain memorable. I can barely remember most of the vacations I've ever taken, including an expensive trip to Barbados with lots of planned excursions about 7 years ago. If a genie appeared right now and offered to exchange my memories for the money I paid to obtain them, I'd agree like a shot. On the other hand, I still remember some of the toys I had as a child, decades ago.
You said "They pointed out that it's the love of money that's considered the root of all evil."
It's even less definite than that! Most translations say something like "Love of money is the root of all *kinds* of evil."
I think we can all point to an example of evil that has nothing at all do with money, so it's nice to know the Bible doesn't contain such a blatant fallacy, huh?
Question everything Dave Ramsey says, he is in no way shape or form a creditable source. His only real financial background is the fact that he drove his finances into the ground before starting to make money off of people who knew less than he did on the subject.
The love of money quote may be actually even less definite than Cindy (#7) stated. It varies by translation, but I'm told that closest approximation to the original Greek is "For the love of money is *a* root of all kinds of evil."
The money myth I hate most, without question, is "There's no point in making more money because it will put you in a higher tax bracket and you will end up making less."
This is especially true since (to my understanding; you should verify for yourself!) the tax brackets are incremental. For a single filer in 2011, you pay 10% on the first $8500, 15% on the next $26k, and so on. So if you move up a tax bracket, you only pay the higher rate on the income in excess of the bracket floor.
Moneychimp.com has some great tax calculators, but again, these can have bugs so you should double check their information.
I believe money does buy happiness. I rarely find miserable people at the country club, but often see them at Wal-Mart. Money by itself won't make you happy, but it certainly affords you more opportunity and choice in life. It gives you the ability to do things that make you happy. Excellent article.
I totally agree with @chicagoelevated! I think it's a fallacy to assume that everyone can earn lots of money doing what they love — if they can figure out what it is in the first place. I'd wager that most people earn a decent living doing jobs they like, but aren't in love with.
Regarding whether you spend more with cash or credit, retail organizations certainly think you do. I worked for big box retail and they spent a lot of time and talent pushing credit cards. Their point of sale data showed that the average transaction with cash was about $10 and with the store credit card was more like $300. Having said that, I don't have specific number because it was proprietary data (it's also several years old) – however, retail is tracking this, and the pushing of credit bears out that THEY think you'll spend more with their card. Maybe the reason we can't get the specifics is that the best research for this would be internal numbers from retail and it's not in their best interest to share.
@Ingrid #4: I think you make an important point re: emergency fund vs. high interest debt and it makes sense from the financial standpoint. But an emergency fund has also a psychological effect — having as little as $500 set aside for "emergencies" can give you a peace of mind needed to focus on paying off the debt.
Great article.
I honestly don't know why people think of people like Ramsey/Kiyosaki etc as "gurus" – Ramsey has been bankrupt and just makes up stuff to support his argument (and make lots of $$).
As for money myths – I just don't believe anything I hear anymore.
@Ingrid – the reason you need at least some sort of emergency fund before you pay off debt is because if you have an emergency and you don't have an emergency fund, you will have to borrow MORE money to cover it, thus increasing your debt and continuing the vicious cycle.
I remember reading about research that said that once you hit a certain point where you can meet all your basic needs, adding more money has a diminishing return on your happiness. I can't find an official citation so maybe I am mistaken but it certainly makes sense. Going from under the poverty line to an average middle-class income – say hypothetically $25k to $50k – would probably mean a huge jump in happiness because you could stop worrying about having enough money for food and shelter and so on. Taking a middle-class income and adding another $25k to your salary would be nice but the average person would probably just buy a new car or more stuff and it may add to their happiness a little but not as much as the earlier jump did.
Many people here seem to misunderstand the Biblical idiom, "the love of money is the root of all evil." For one, please tell me how the U.S. economic system mirrors the Roman economic system in terms of wealth and money (newsflash: the hardest workers in Rome, the slaves, could never be wealthy). In the United States, the average millionaire works at least forty five to seventy hours a week – we're not talking the lazy rich like the Roman times (think of individuals like Catullus).
Or, I'll put it another way: find one passage in the Bible that denigrates hard work. Yet in the U.S. economic system we pay people usually in salaries (annual), hourly, or performance. All of these consume either time or effort – not a lazy rich system at all.
And there are just as many passages in the Bible that praise wealth (all throughout Proverbs) as a sign of hard work and self-discipline.
Therefore the love of money is only a root of evil if it is not well deserved. Otherwise, loving money in our system is loving your work (and I'd say respect of your work is more valuable anyway).
Of course I spend more with credit cards: if something is $5 I'll use the cash I have in my pocket, but if I am buying a $500 item, I don't want to carry $500 in cash with me, and I want the protection that credit cards have, and points/miles. That doesn't necessarily mean that I am overspending or "spending more" than if I didn't have the credit card, if this is a planned purchase that I am paying off that same month.
Agree that the Bible verse is about all "kinds" of evil, not all evil. Lots of evils are based in things other than loving money, and money itself is not evil.
I loved this post so much I had to comment. Fight the good fight, J.D.! Give that hearsay the old one-two.
I've been very put-off by a lot of "financial gurus" because they strike me as being more like cheerleaders than experts. Not to underplay their role – motivation is important, too. But you can't be self-sufficient without a critical eye.
Sheesh JD! So many things to want to comment on! Thanks for another awesome post!
I feel compelled to point out a fallacy in Claire's logic about why she feels that the homily "You'll value it more if you pay for it yourself" is false. Her logic is that bc she values her experience in equal value to her classmates, there is no truth to the statement. However, following the statement itself, the comparison isn't supposed to be made between her and her classmates, but rather internally within herself. Right now, because she's only experienced one side of the coin, she cannot tell for sure if she might have felt even stronger about her experience if she'd paid for it herself.
I can tell you that when I was a teenager, my parents paid for me to have braces. At the time, I would have told you that I appreciated it greatly, but a few months after the braces were removed, I allowed myself to slack off on wearing the retainer. Over time, my teeth slipped into worse alignment than they'd originally been in. As an adult, now paying for a second round of braces myself, I found that I was motivated to be a model patient. I did every single thing they recommended–I still wear the retainer nightly, four years after my braces were removed. I definitely took it a lot more seriously once I was paying for it, lol!
Many thoughts came through as I read this post.
#1 Happiness is relative. Even if it has been quantified in some way in scientific studies. Happiness in America is not the same as Happiness in Africa or anywhere else. It is very culturally based.
#2 JD is citing merely one of Dave Ramsey's teaching points as being not easily verified, however later in the post he verifies it is true with multiple references. I don't think he is trying to discredit him in anyway, because he has over and over again told us to read his books on this blog. (Also read some cynical comments, when basically anyone can find research to give credence to their point if they look hard enough. It's what research is about, explaining all sides).
#3 Doing the work to find out why we believe and act the way we do is a difficult process. It's human nature to believe those we trust, and read their books, and blogs, and take their advice.
#4 The basic premise of this post holds true. To truly know,understand, and do something yourself and for yourself is the only way to go. It's common sense. Blind beliefs are dangerous.
#5 I believe J.D. Roth and Dave Ramsey (of whom I have never met personally) both have the heart of a teacher. They are looking to educate their listeners/readers because they care.
If you believe your money is evil- I would be willing to take that burden from you. How about some on investing? One myth that really bus me: It is easy to pick superior stocks by "doing your homework". Mutual fund companies have huge research departments and the majority of them do NOT beat the market averages. If it was easy to beat the market with research the funds with the largest research departments would always beat the market!
-Rick Francis
I can totally support the idea that you spend more when you use credit. I DO IT!!! That's why I don't use credit cards anymore. Well, that and I hate debt. LOL
I'm very bad about saying, go ahead and pick this and that up since I'm "putting it on the card anyway." I'd guess that I double what I would have spent when I use the CC.
But yes, I agree, you shouldn't just take quotes and studies and statistics as 'word'.
But I must defend my man Dave Ramsey. He may not be the go-to for everything or everyone…but his books have changed my life!! He helped me change my mindset!!! I have more money saved that ever in my life!! I'm not worried about the unexpected emergency anymore, because I can actually take care of it (like when my car broke down a couple wks ago…I didn't panic about the cost, I knew I could cover it.) His words of wisdom have helped me push myself to save more than I use to think I could. I can look at my future and see retirement and financial contentment! I don't use all his methods, but he inspired to take control of my finances…and that makes me a huge fan of his.
OK, slightly off-topic, but a near-half century spent as a writer and editor forces me to jump on this sentence: 'On principal, though, they should never borrow to pay for living expenses.'
We know the writer meant 'principle.'
Otherwise, a great post, as always.
I work at a large department store. They have their own credit card. They quote studies that show people using a store card spend 30% more than people who don't. The solicitation you get at the checkout "May I put this on your *** account?" is for a reason!
Conventional wisdom says that carrying a mortgage is good so you can get the tax deduction and pay back with cheaper dollars through inflation. That has never made sense for me personally. A mortgage has led a lot of people into financial trouble. You spend so much more money on the interest than you get for a deduction. I'm not commenting to debate the pros and cons of having a mortgage, its just something that for myself, I've chosen to pay my mortgage off as quickly as possible so I don't have years of interest charges. It also will provide me with the financial security of not having a house payment in retirement.
"Families should do the same. They should borrow to buy a house to live in, a washer and dryer to keep house more efficiently, a car for transportation to work, a college education for the kids."
Doh. It's crazy that Ramsey cites this. Hopefully he sees this article and updates his thesis!
I think, if you don't already have a washer/dryer, car, or college education, it may make sense to finance them. But if you already have them, it doesn't really make sense to finance new ones (or more education.)
Richard and I were talking last night about college. He's 29; I'm 28, and we can't believe the number of people our age who are still in college. They're going back for second, third, fourth degrees. They're basically unemployable–overeducated with 0 work experience. Our society hasn't set up our generation well. We've been told to go to school and then a job will be bestowed upon us when we graduate. When that doesn't happen, we default to…more school! I don't think this does our overall society any good. By the time these folks get out of school, they have more than a house worth of debt. Stop the madness.
Great post…and I, too, take issue with Claire's statement. Her personal story is just that, her anectodal experience. (Right in the same ball park as "My grandfather smoked three packs a day and lived to be 103 without ever getting lung cancer.") Just as the latter doesn't change the FACT that MOST smokers WILL get lung disease, Claire's statement doesn't change the reality that MOST people who pay for for things themselves tend to value the service or product more.
And great reporting on the non-existant Dave Ramsey "report". I like the guy for the most part, and he helps a bunch of folks. He is not, however, the final authority on all things financial. As with most info I find, I have taken what "works" and set the rest to the side.
@uncertain algorithm #17: "For one, please tell me how the U.S. economic system mirrors the Roman economic system in terms of wealth and money (newsflash: the hardest workers in Rome, the slaves, could never be wealthy)."
Sticking with the theme here, that's actually completely untrue. There are lots of examples of ex-slaves becoming very wealthy, and you can read a satire on it in the story "Cena Trimalchionis."
@josh: From your comment you don't find Ramsey to be a credible source of information. Yet, you are reading a blog by someone who has a similar story. Not the multi-million real estate portfolio, but JD went through a similar process of getting into debt then working his way out. If you don't find Ramsey a credible source why would you find JD a credible source?
Also, for the record, on the whole I've enjoyed TMM and found a lot of what Ramsey says to be useful. I've just adapted his way to what works for me. (Not entirely sure why I feel I have to defend myself in this forum either but that's probably another psycological issue from which some other money principle/money myth could be derived.)
@uncertain algorithm – I respectfully disagree. "Loving money" isn't the same thing as having money (i.e. working hard for it and being prudent with it).
The U.S. economic system is a bad example. It was greed — the love of money — that was behind all those policies and deals that got us into a crisis. There are many companies that put their bottom line ahead of the safety of their customers, the welfare of their employees and the health of the planet to earn more profit.
In short, when people put their need for more money ahead of the needs and welfare of others (not to mention ahead of their morals), then yes, I do believe the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of some evil (though perhaps not all).
J.D., that reminds me… What bugs me is the saying that "It's not personal, it's just business". To me it always felt like an empty justification for hurting someone.
Great article, JD! I second @crunchysue's comment about how salaries don't always increase over time. Salaries get frozen. People need to take time off because of illness or family circumstances. Most people change jobs and careers several times in their lives and those transitions don't always come with a salary increases.
I've seen a lot of my friends buy condos and homes that are beyond their means, because they believe that way more money will be coming in within a few years. I'm much more comfortable renting what I can afford today.
I appreciate your persistence, JD. Yay for facts and research. There's more than enough truthiness out there.
JD: I'm impressed with your willingness to dig until you found the truth.
Bottom line for me: we each have to dig to find what's 'true' for ourselves. What's true for us may or may not be true for our neighbors.
You forgot the biggest myth of all – that going to college to get a degree with guarantee you a job and the American Dream^(TM).
Another pet peeve of mine is when people say they don't want to make more money because they'll be in a higher tax bracket – as if all their additional money, plus extra will be used to pay taxes. Scary.
JD for me one of the biggest myths is that a college education will lead to higher income. While the odds are in your favor if your looking for a regular 9-5 job, I know several people who never went to college that make far more money than I do. I think it's more about how you apply your knowledge to your specific occupation that determines your success, and you don't need a college education for that. In realistic terms, those that have specific knowledge in a field where the demand for the skill is higher than the supply of knowledge (workers) will make more money. That's why I think that if you plan on going into a very general field where the supply is high, you are best served by going the cheapest route it takes to get there. In most cases, a degree is a degree, unless you went to Harvard, Yate, etc., and if that's the case, you probably are not applying for the jobs the rest of us are. I just can't comprehend spending $50-$75K on a education to be in a field where the supply is high and my income potential is limited by that supply.
Great post. I don't think that money can "buy" happiness, but a lack of money sure can make one miserable. #5 Cara – I totally agree with your comment. #16 E – The book "Your Money Or Your Life" covers the concept of diminishing return on your happiness.
One of my pet peeves of financial statements is that you should never buy a new car, because "the second you drive it off the lot it depreciates several thousand dollars". Well, that would be an issue if you needed to sell it the second you drove it off the lot. I've never seen a car that's been driven 10 miles and had $5,000 knocked off the price. It just seems like a strange rationale.
The myth that in leveraging a sale "I saved X% or $X" – I would go a step further and say that a sale could a single justification to buy something you don't need. I hear "yeah, but I got it on sale" all the time from many different people. It's powerful.
As far as the Biblical reference, "the love of money is the root of all evil."…perhaps if it read "*blind* love of money *can* be *a* root of evil"…
Thanks. I loved this post.
I'd like to add a couple
1. Education is always a good investment.
2. Anyone can start their own business and be their own boss.
3. The only thing of value in a crisis is gold.
Many hold to generalizations because some simple rules like "earn more than you spend" always work. Not all of em do, evaluate your life's rules and fit them accordingly.
"If you don't find Ramsey a credible source why would you find JD a credible source?"
I can't speak for Josh, but personally, the difference is humility. JD openly admits when a topic is veering into an area of which he has little understanding, and readly concedes when his information might be incorrect or incomplete. I can't recall ever really catching JD stating things that are verifiably untrue, and ignoring corrections from his readers/listeners.
Dave Ramsey, on the other hand, frequently states things that are clearly incorrect, yet he repeats them over and over, maintaining a willful ignorance of the truth. Specifically, I'm talking about his investment advice. He frequently claims that you can expect to earn 12% on your money reliably and indefinitely. This myth has been systematically disproven by multiple credible industry experts like Peter Lynch, Warren Buffet, and many others. It also completely ignores the impact of fees and taxes on investment returns. Yet Dave keeps saying it.
That's enough to give JD more credit than Dave Ramsey, in my opinion.
Please do read the post over at Bad Money Advice about Money as Medicine: http://badmoneyadvice.com/2010/04/money-as-medicine.html
Apparently, just touching money made people feel better! How's that for backing up the "myth" that money makes you happy.
@CERB (#37) Thanks for pointing that out! I feel like a lot of people are still believing in car market "truths" that were true maybe up until the early 80s, but are not nearly as true today. My last car I purchased at the end of a model year, and it was $2000 cheaper than the 1-2 year old used cars of the same model. All that and I got to enjoy the full warranty as well! Perhaps I would have saved more on the used model if I could have found a private seller trying to sell the same car, but the reality is that the majority of cars reentering the market after only 1-2 years of use are coming off leases, so they tend to end up at dealers.
I would argue that these examples show why not to think for yourself. Those myths are easy to believe if you just think about them. The right thing to do is to trust the scientific method, and if you don't want to do the work (and who does) then you should find people who are using the scientific method to sustain/refute these claims. Science isn't just for molecules and planets, it's useful for finding truth in anything.
That being said, I am absolutely the worst at this. I come to conclusions in my head without ever testing them, because it's hard to know when you are wrong. I'm wrong a lot.
I remember that my husband and I both agreed that money could buy happiness on one of our dates when we first met and started laughing since we were the only 2 people we knew at the time who agreed on that.
Without money, you can't afford security (a home, food, etc). With money, you can afford the basics, to save for your future, and to do fun stuff in between.
It also seems to make sense that at some point, more money will not create that much more happiness. My husband and I would love to have a few million dollars right now so we could "retire" from the jobs we don't appreciate and pursue whatever we want off the interest of our money, but we are happy now as well.
We can afford the basics, the fun stuff, and early retirement on about $80k a year before taxes…we are content. Double the money would lead to more time, which is great, but unlikely to actually double our happiness.
Really good post JD! I always enjoy Nicole's great comments so I'm glad to hear she's being doing some work for you. (Jim from Free by 50 is similarly reality based in many comments threads).
Also, on your readers' myths – I didn't see your original tweets but the "do what you love and the money will follow" and the Claire's education one are really, really good examples and are all over money blogs.
I also LOVE Dave Ramsey. There are a lot more studies for him to cite now on the issue of credit card spending than there were back when he first wrote Financial Peace University.
http://server1.tepper.cmu.edu/Seminars/docs/CreditCardStudy%2009.10.01.pdf is especially interesting though… Looks like who spends more varies by type.
My other recent favorite for conceived wisdom is that it takes 21 days to make/break a habit. Apparently that one comes from a book on how long it takes for a new amputee to lose the phantom limb, on average. Actual habits take different amounts of time depending on the habit (which makes sense… it's easier to drink a glass of water every morning by habit than it is to do a perfect triple axle by habit).
Thanks for the compliment, guinness416.
Wow, great find on Dave Ramsey's "people spend more with credit". That should be a topic on bad money advice too…think I might send ole Frank C an email asking him to expose that in detail!
Its one of those things that sounds true and you believe it, but would be hard to do an actual study on it.
I'm quoting a friend of mine, from a conversation I was having on Facebook about people approaching 30 and still being in college. This is my friend:
"I'm bitter about the lack of degree requirement in a lot of jobs that I am skilled at. If my experience is the main focus for employment as it has seemed to be, I would have gladly dropped the $30k debt and just worked. In a way, my going to University felt like I was appeasing my parents a lot and their need to brag about having a kid in University."
I'm acquainted with another person who went to college, got a degree in Business Administration or some other super general field (I can't remember the exact degree title, but something like that) and found it so un-marketable that he resorted to selling marijuana to pay off his student loans, which is exactly what they tell you you're going to college to avoid (how many anecdotes have you heard about the little minority kid who grew up in the ghetto but somehow managed to go to college so he wouldn't end up selling drugs like his older brother?).
I think it's a myth that going to college is *always* a good idea regardless of the major you choose or the amount you spend on your degree.
Also, I'm glad you did the research to point out Dave Ramsey's error — I think it's fun when these sorts of things are pointed out. But, for the rest of us, who aren't doing research for a book we're writing, and are just trying to find time to *read* the original book in the first place, this is a huge burden. I could easily read a book that cites 25 references, it'd probably take me days just to track them all down, let alone find the relevant passages cited and authenticate them, and then they very well may just refer to different works.
As a consumer of information, I have no practical choice but to rely on the authors of that material to do a decent job, because I don't have the time or energy to verify that all the studies cited in everything I read were carried out in a scientifically rigorous manner.
What can you really expect someone to do here (besides discount Dave Ramsey entirely in the future as being unreliable)?
Finally, I find that the veracity of these myths becomes less relevant as you opt out of more and more optional things. Do people spend more when using credit cards? It's irrelevant if you don't use credit cards. If you're not testing the myths, it doesn't personally make a difference to you whether or not they're true. Simplicity gets you out of having to read as many studies to try and figure out what's going on.
Great post!
I deeply regret buying a house six years ago. Of course, at the time, it was a 'no-brainer' because real estate is such an AMAZING investment.
It caused some serious financial advantage, but at least I've learned to question these common financial myths and I should be better off in the future.


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Which do you want first, the good news or the bad news? Let's start with the good news. We're at the tail end of a wave of subprime resets that has lifted foreclosures to record highs this year. And as the surf goes out, it should help builders forced into an uneven fight with foreclosures, which for all their problems enjoy an unbeatable price advantage. The bad news, and this should come as no surprise to an industry that takes one blow after another, is that we have a second wave of approximately $200 billion in resets that could hit our shores within the next year. These are on Alt-A mortgages and Option ARMs, taken out by investors and homeowners to buy homes during the boom. Many will start to reset in 2009.This second wave is only about one third the size of the subprime surf that clobbered the industry during the last year. Still, some analysts are saying that the Alt-A and Option Arm mess, along with lingering problems from subprime mortgages, may be enough to keep foreclosures at current levels next year. On the optimistic side, Rick Sharga, vice president of marketing for RealtyTrac, speaking at a Zelman & Associates investment conference in Dallas today, believes foreclosures may decline next year, after an uptick in the first quarter of 09. "If we got a 20 percent reduction in 2009, that would be a good year," he told the conference.As we go into the fall and winter months, though, competition with foreclosed homes is likely to intensify. In August, one in every 464 households received a foreclosure filing. Filings increased 8 percent during the month, led by a big increase in bank repossessions, or REOs. RealtyTrac counts more than three quarters of a million properties in its active REO database. That equals 17 percent of the inventory of existing homes for sale reported by the National Association of Realtors in June.At current levels, there are more foreclosed homes than new homes sold in this country. RealtyTrac expects that this year 25 percent of all sales will be foreclosed home sales, and those homes are selling at a deeper discount to the market. RealtyTrac's data base also shows that foreclosed homes sell at a 31 percent discount to today's prices, compared to 23 percent the previous year.Builders speaking at the conference emphasized that there's only so much you can do about competing with REOs. It helps when buyers are working with builders to build their home from scratch rather than buying standing inventory. Jeff Mezger, the CEO of KB Home, emphasized the importance of letting customers select from among thousands of options in a design center and in effect build the home of their dreams.Without a doubt, "foreclosures are part of the downward pressure on pricing," said Ara Hovnanian, CEO of Hovnanian Enterprises. But Hovnanian pointed out that many foreclosed homes may have mold or other maintenance problems. They may not have warranty coverage. And you may have to wait to take occupancy.Richard Dugas, CEO of Pulte Homes, pointed out that the impact of foreclosures is very localized. Some states, such as California, Florida, Arizona, and Nevada, have been harder hit than others. But even within those markets, it comes down to individual neighborhoods that have more than others. But no matter where they are, Dugas concluded, "We can't afford to compete against foreclosures at 40 percent to 50 percent off."
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Photo Travel Tumbler
Personalized Photo Travel Tumbler
Made to Order - 1 business day processing+shipping
Your Price: $3.99 each
Minimum Order Quantity: 12
Tumbler sensation!This Photo Travel Tumbler measures 6 inches high and holds 14 oz. Our Photo Tumbler allows you to upload your favorite image and personalization to be inserted inside the tumbler. The template are is approximately 10 inches x 6 inches. This makes a great gift for any student or parent, or sell them at the big game as a fundraiser.
Please allow ample time for delivery. Our ship date for this product is noted in your shopping cart. Many items are shipped separately, so please allow extra time for these items to arrive. Shipping charges are based on the value of the merchandise and not the number of shipments. For additional shipping information, contact our Customer Service Department at (firstname.lastname@example.com or 1-800-314-8794).
Detailed shipping information
Detailed shipping information
Product Reviews
Reviewed by 2 customers
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- A huge hit
- Attractive Design
- Durable
- Unique
Best Uses
- Commercial
- Decorative
- Home
- Informal
- Perfect for parties
Was an excellent idea and glad they could come through with the exact product I had hoped for
- Good Value
- Quality Construction
Best Uses
- Celebration
- Party Favors and Activities
Needed 8th grade graduation gifts,wanted to do a collage of all the kids and couldn't find a tumbler that was priced rite and good quality,in stores and on line till I found these, Even had something written on them at no charge.This is a great product [...]
Questions & Answers
Do you have questions about this product?(earn points for answers!)
get answers from real customers and in-house experts with AnswerBox.
8 Questions | 8 Answers
Displaying questions 1-8
Q:Where is this cup made? USA or China or?Asked on 2/15/2013 by Norma from Greensboro, NC
1 answer
A:It is manufactured in China.Answered on 2/18/2013 by csr
Q:Does the picture get damaged in the handwashing process?Asked on 11/30/2012 by shannon
1 answer
A:No it will not.Answered on 12/3/2012 by CSR
Q:I am a photographer and would like to use this product to print my own photos. Can these tumblers come with blank photo paper inside? Also, will you be able to screen print my logo on the outside of the tumbler?Asked on 11/11/2012 by Liz from United States
1 answer
A:We do not print on the outside of the tumbler. You can order these tumblers without personalization.Answered on 11/12/2012 by csr
Q:I see this has a sale price, if I order 80 cups what is the price of each?Asked on 5/18/2012 by Anonymous from Texas
1 answer
A:You will need to add the quantity to your shopping cart to get your order total.Answered on 5/21/2012 by csr
Q:Is this tumbler reusable? What is it made of? Does the top have a closure to avoid spills?Asked on 3/28/2012 by Karen from Grandville, MI
1 answer
A:This is a plastic travel tumbler. It must be hand washed. There is a tap on the top that you can open and close.Answered on 3/29/2012 by csr
Q:Do you know the approx size of the photo that can be used? Does it include a template to make a collage photo?Asked on 11/19/2010 by Anonymous
1 answer
A:Our Photo Tumbler holds one of your favorite photos and a special imprint. The template are is approximately 10 inches x 6 inches. If you would like to create your own collage we can give you the template to work, but we do not do collage photos.Answered on 11/30/2010 by csr
Q:Do I still select a design when I'm putting my own picture inside?Asked on 11/6/2010 by Kara the newbie from Muncie, IN
1 answer
A:You can select a design if you wish to have one by your wording. It will not take up the entire side of the Travel Tumbler.Answered on 11/8/2010 by CSR
Q:Is the tumbler intented for hot or cold beverages?Asked on 10/21/2010 by Anonymous
1 answer
A:Yes, it can be used for either hot or cold drinks, however, it is not dishwasher safe.Answered on 10/22/2010 by csr
Displaying questions 1-8
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The Postal Service Poster Series by Jason Munn
I've long been a fan of Jason Munn's work. His posters don't have the layering and large type found in a lot of gig posters; he instead distills the band's identity down into a simple, compelling vector image and pairs it with small, tasteful type.
I will note that he has been doing this for years, not following the "flat design" trend that seems to have cropped up in recent months.


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Condo Spotlight: Ventana
- At August 19, 2012
- By Chad Elliott
- In Channelside, Lofts + Condos
- 0
Come experience all that Ventana has to offer its residents!
Cityside | Channelside | Waterside
Embraced by a soothing ambiance and the ultimate in refined amenities. Ventana is enhanced by striking floor plans, gracious verandahs and natural light cascading through expansive picture windows. With an intimate collection of only 84 unique residences ranging from 1,100 to more than 2,600 square feet, Ventana is a window to a world all your own.
Huge picture windows illuminate each residence with natural light and are the focal point of open floor plans that spill out onto large terraces and balconies overlooking downtown, Channelside and the waterfront.
Designed by renowned architect Walton H. Chancey, these uniquely gracious and sophisticated residences include concierge services, and exceptional features and finish not found in most urban residential offerings. More refined than lofts. More intimate than towers. This is Channelside's most livable take on downtown living. Walk to the Tampa Bay Times Forum, Channelside Bay Plaza, Channelside Movie Theater & IMAX, the Florida Aquarium, and Cruise Ports or catch a streetcar to downtown Tampa and Ybor City.
Flowing water features welcome residents onto the terrace club level, featuring a spacious sundeck, refreshing pool and spa. This elevated urban oasis features private nooks and social areas surrounded by lush landscaping and spectacular downtown views. A covered outdoor dining area and grill set the scene for nightly gatherings of residents and friends.
The sophisticated media and clubroom with stylish furnishings, artwork and lighting create a stimulating environment for relaxing with friends, entertaining and watching sports or movies.
A fully equipped fitness center and sauna round out a lifestyle of vibrant health and wellbeing – all overseen by the attentive services of a fulltime concierge.
Ventana also provides the privacy of enhanced security features, including private entry and a monitored, residents-only parking garage with two reserved parking spaces per residence.
Ventana is the urban home you've been waiting for!
For more information about Ventana Condos or to setup a showing contact an URBAN REALTOR® with SHELTER | Urban Real Estate at 813.951.0907 or by email at firstname.lastname@example.com.
SHELTER | Live Better.
Condo Spotlight: Victory Lofts + Model T Lofts
- At August 3, 2012
- By Chad Elliott
- In Channelside, Lofts + Condos
- 0
Victory Lofts
The upscale features you'll find in the Victory Lofts aren't just for show or limited to one or two items. Careful planning has gone into constructing a loft home with expertly crafted, aesthetically pleasing and extremely functional amenities that fit in perfectly with your lifestyle. Victory Lofts in Channelside offers one the best of Urban Living experiences in all of Tampa! Step into this open floor plan condo with twelve foot ceilings, polished concrete floors, and exposed duct work.
Watch cruise ships come and go through the floor to ceiling windows overlooking the port. The open and spacious kitchen offers granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, and a gas stove! Building amenities include controled building access and secured/covered parking, fitness center, roof-top terrace and deck with a projection theater.
Victory Lofts Amenities & Features:
- Soaring Ceilings
- Polished Concrete Floors
- Exposed Duct Work
- Open and Spacious Kitchen with Granite Countertops
- Stainless Steel Appliances
- Gas Stove
- Optional Balconies
- Spacious Closets
- High-speed wireless internet standard in each unit
- Secure Building Access with closed circuit monitoring
- Secured / Covered Parking
- Fitness Center
- Roof-top Terrace and Deck
- Projection Theater
- Online Concierge Service
Model T Lofts
Live in one of Tampa's only true loft buildings and enjoy urban living at its finest! This 1925 historic Model T Ford factory has been beautifully restored into Art-Deco style urban lofts with original columns, high ceilings, large open rooms, concrete floors, floor-to-ceiling windows, exposed ductwork, and 10′ ceilings. The spacious kitchen has granite tops, stainless appliances including a gas range for the gourmet cook, and a breakfast bar with pendant lighting.
Model T Lofts highlights include: upgraded closet system and built-in contemporary armoire; separate secured storage area; and secured parking. Reserve the top floor entertainment… room equipped with a theater style TV, full kitchen, and a spacious roof top terrace with gorgeous views of downtown. Other amenities include a fitness center, and the Victory Cafe located on the ground floor! Fees include basic cable TV, high speed internet, building insurance, water/sewer, trash pickup, and gas!
Just steps from bustling Channelside, the cruise terminals and downtown Tampa, you will find the unprecedented urban lifestyle of the Model T Lofts. With large open spaces, polished concrete floors, natural light and stainless steel appliances, a Model T Loft can be your canvas for creating a living environment that fully expresses yourself.
For more information about Victory Lofts and Model T Lofts contact an URBAN REALTOR® with SHELTER | Urban Real Estate at 813.951.0907 or by email at email@example.com.
SHELTER | Live Better.
Condo Spotlight: The Meridian
- At July 16, 2012
- By Chad Elliott
- In Channelside, Lofts + Condos, Tampa
- 0
The Meridian is an art deco style residential building in the Channelside district of Tampa. It is reminiscent of the vintage buildings in Miami's South Beach.
Built in 2005, the Meridian is a modern loft building in the Channelside neighborhood of Tampa, located at the intersection of 12th and Whiting. Featuring open layouts, functional floor plans and high-end amenities, the Meridian brings the contemporary culture of Manhattan and the chic style of South Beach to Tampa's Channel District.
The Meridian in Tampa will amaze any urban dweller. From the private terrace you can entertain in style with unobstructed views of the Port of Tampa and the hustle and bustle of 12th Street. This is the ideal down town Tampa location, walk to the Tampa Bay Times Forum or Channelside Bay Plaza and enjoy the finest in downtown urban living.
The Meridian Amenities & Features:
- Two Walls of Windows
- 10′ Ceilings
- Large Kitchens
- Center Island & Lots of counter space
- Stainless Appliances
- Split Bedrooms
- Rooftop Clubroom
- Rooftop Pool & Spa
- Spa & Cabanas
For more information about The Meridian contact an URBAN REALTOR® with SHELTER | Urban Real Estate at 813.951.0907 or by email at email@example.com.
SHELTER | Live Better.
Condo Spotlight: The Place at Channelside
- At July 8, 2012
- By Chad Elliott
- In Channelside, Lofts + Condos
- 0
The Place at Channelside offers contemporary, urban living in an incomparable waterside location in the Channelside district of Tampa, FL. This stunning collection of luxurious, urban apartment homes delivers innovative, spacious interiors with a variety of visual delights, posh finishes and cutting-edge technology that combine to create a five-star living experience.
Add resort-style amenities, downtown Tampa convenience, excellent security and unsurpassed waterfront entertainment options and it's a place you'll want to be. From front row views of Tampa's Garrison Seaport and Florida Aquarium to the Ybor City historic electric streetcar line, IMAX and a variety of eclectic shops and restaurants on the waterfront, it's all here at The Place at Channelside and just steps from your front door.
With its unique and stunning architecture, The Place is a residential retreat with a stepped design of two buildings rising to five and eight glorious stories, which flank a creatively designed inner courtyard oasis. Luxurious amenities such as a magnificent palm-studded lap pool area and an entertainment ready community lounge with sweeping outdoor terraces and stunning views make this progressive and unconventional urban living in downtown Tampa.
A Unique, Resort Lifestyle Building Featuring:
- An artistically landscaped courtyard with lap pool, meditation garden and patio area, whirlpool spa and a fitness center with sauna
- A community lounge with full kitchen opening to an expansive rooftop terrace
- Top security features and home technology, including remote garage entry, secure-access elevators, and integrated wiring
- 24/7 concierge and uniformed doorman
- Assigned covered parking plus bicycle racks
For more information about The Place at Channelside contact an URBAN REALTOR® with SHELTER | Urban Real Estate at 813.951.0907 or by email at email@example.com.
SHELTER | Live Better.
11th Annual 4th of July Celebration in Channelside
- At June 25, 2012
- By Chad Elliott
- In Channelside, Holiday, Local Events
- 0


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Flower Station specializes in delivery flowers for all occasions.
- wedding flowers
- event flowers
- weekly flowers for businesses
- flower delivery in London and UK.
This user has arrived from Qype, a European company acquired by Yelp in 2012. We have integrated the two sites to bring you one great local experience.


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A Taiwanese manufacturer of optoelectronic components has agreed to buy Power Innovations International Inc. in American Fork.
Lite-On Technology will buy Power Innovations in an all-cash deal. Other terms weren't disclosed.
Power Innovations was established in 1997. The company develops power quality and management products.
The company says its business has been growing at a 40 percent rate in recent years. It will remain in American Fork.
Customers include commercial, military, government, oil exploration and homeland security clients.
Lite-On was founded in 1975. It was the first company in Taiwan to produce light-emitting diodes, or LEDs. The company is publicly traded on the Taiwan Stock Exchange.


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Music Reviews
Rating: X(((((((
Ladies, imagine being a Vice writer. Just walking around everywhere with your entitlement and ennui and midlength penis all gently bouncing in step; wearing a male tank top or a waxed mustache or some shit. Imagine having an ironic, retro-sexist dudebro-voice and getting together with a couple of other white guys and some cocaine and making your not-at-all-different voices all sync up as tautly as your nihilistic senses of humor, then snuggling all up together (no homo!) in a big Bushwick loft of partially employed trust-fund kids while something noninformative is happening on the Internet. What a life. I guess there's the whole "everyone in the world thinks I'm an asshole" thing to deal with, too, but let's not split hairs here: Vice writers got it pretty fucking made.
I could add to this based on personal experience, but really, there's no need. Hit the nail on the head.
(Source: deviatesinc)
Technically Grover is a "monster," but this isn't what we originally had in mind.
(Source: ilovehorrormovies)
These distinctive webbed feet belong to a blue-footed booby of the Galápagos Islands. The bluer, the better: Courting males show off with a high-stepping strut—and those with brighter feet are more attractive to potential mates. Photo: Tim Laman
"Hardboiled Egg Hunt," Art Spiegelman, March 31, 1997On newyorker.com, a slide show of imaginative Easter covers from the past two decades: http://nyr.kr/Hkqe9l
(Source: teenagez0mbie)


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"Little Ones" Childcare Ministries
In Matthew 19:14, the Bible states, "Then Jesus said, 'Let the little ones come to me and do not hinder them for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.'" At Little Ones ChildCare, we teach the children that Jesus loves them!
Little Ones ChildCare is a licensed facility through the Department of Human Service to serve up to 99 children. We provide childcare for infants beginning at four weeks old through school age. LOCC provides Pre-Kindergarten classes based on the local school calendar (August – May) using the Abeka Curriculum. We provide four class periods Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. – 3:00p.m. Each class has 12 students maximum to maintain the "personal" touch. LOCC has a public school bus picking up the children before school, and bringing the children to our facility after school as well.
We provide a "safe" environment for the children whose parents must work early or stay late. LOCC provides a "Chapel" for the three and four year olds providing them a Bible lesson and teaching them songs about Jesus. We also provide a hot plate lunch for a minimal fee as well as morning and afternoon snacks.
Monthly menus are provided for parents to review and decide whether to utilize the meals. Each day the parents are provided with a daily report to keep up with the children's activity and progress.
Call us at (501)362-3443 or e-mail Alisha Lee email@example.com for more information on our exciting childcare ministry.
Children's Ministries
Children are special at Heber Springs Baptist Church. We believe the Bible when it says, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
That kind of training should first start at home, and our objective at HSBC is to assist the parent. We use an age graded system known as elevate to provide a Bible Study for all ages. We also have a Nursery Coordinator and AWANA for boys and girls on Wednesday nights.
Through-out the year, our children have special activities, and in the summer, HSBC provides the opportunity to go to a children's camp. We also have Children Choirs, where they learn about the Lord through music. In the summer, we have a one week graded Vacation Bible School, where children can have an exciting learning experience. Children are very important to the Lord and are important to HSBC.
Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 19:14, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." We believe these are words to obey and lead children to the truth of Jesus.
Student Ministries
Sunday Morning Live is our Youth Sunday School ministry. During this time our 7-12 graders will experience a 25 – 30 minute Bible lesson (teaching time) followed by about 20 minutes of discussion and small group (table time).
Jr and Sr. High Bible Study on Wednesdays at 5:30pm. It's purpose is two-fold. It is meant to be a "front door" ministry, welcoming and attracting the High School students of the Heber Springs area. It also includes a Bible teaching time, which focuses on both understanding and applying God's Word.
Worship Arts Ministries
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing, psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."
Colossians 3:16
The purpose of our Worship Arts Ministry here at HSBC is threefold. First we want to encourage all who attend with uplifting music and the fellowship of others. Second we want to facilitate an experience with God through the movement of the Holy Spirit. And third we strive to equip believers for a life of service.
During the course of a months time, you could experience any or all of the following elements…great choral music, an upbeat praise team, a southern gospel quartet, dramatic visual media presentations, instrumental praise, great Biblical preaching, quiet times of prayer, personal testimonies, and so on, but the one experience that you will always have is the uplifting praise to God.
Opportunities for service in this ministry vary widely from Worship Choir (rehearsal is Sunday Evenings at 5:00PM), to the Audio/Video Team, to instrumental worship, to Children's Choir leader. If you are interested in any of these please contact the church office (501) 362-2151.
Prayer Ministries
"Except the Lord Builds the House, they Labor in Vain who build it" (Psalm 127:1)
Heber Springs Baptist Church has been laid on a foundation of prayer from its
beginning. A group of believers continue to meet every week in the Education Building. They invite all members to join them as they lift up the needs of the church.
The prayer ministry and its warriors are the first defense for
emergencies and short term needs. It is made up of members who
are reached by phone and who pray first and then pass the prayer needs
on to the next person on the chain. There are day and night chains, so
that there is full prayer coverage and more opportunity for all to intercede
prayerfully before our Lord on behalf of others. It is activated by calling
the coordinators who then start the requests thru the chains.
Every prayer request is treated with complete confidentiality.
We are blessed to have a Prayer Room Ministry that fulfills long term
requests such as: salvation for the lost, missionaries, chronic illnesses
and many other indefinite needs. The Prayer Room is located in Room
308 of the Education Building and both the building and prayer room
are locked for security. The hours are 7AM to 7PM Monday thru Saturday;
on Sunday the Prayer Room is unlocked and open for all from 8AM
to 7PM. You may signup for an hour of prayer and will be given keys.
All members of the congregation are invited to pray with Brother Mike
and his staff at 8:45AM to 9:15AM each Sunday.
Small Group Ministries
Our weekly group studies provide our members with opportunities to fellowship, pray, and learn from God's Word with other committed Christians. Members can participate in:
Each of these small groups carries with it the mission to build up brothers and sisters in the Lord by close, accountable, and committed fellowship. Our studies serve as a profitable adjoining activity to the corporate fellowship of HSBC experienced on Sunday morning.


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Organize your porn! Create a collection today!
Use the "Add to Collection" icon in the top right corner of any video thumbnail when you're logged in (desktop version of site only) or directly from a video page with the "Add to Collection" button under each video.
- By: Cum Hogs
- Rating:
- (22 ratings)
- Duration:
- 11min36sec
- Views:
- 23,219
- Date:
- March 17, 2013
- All Comments (1)
xiphoguy March 17, 2013
- Hot teen slut Candi has some fun with a guy. She shows off her cute teen face before going down on the guy, sucking his cock before letting him fuck her brains out. It ends with him pulling out and spooging on her face.


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Solutions that Work for People and Wildlife
We're a non-profit partnership, building a future for large carnivores through co-operation with the people who live with them.
We work with ranchers, outfitters, rural residents, land managers, and scientists to keep grizzlies and wolves in the wild and out of trouble.
Recent News
What's on your mind about living with grizzlies? Come to our Summer 2014 community gathering in the Madison Valley and let us know!
July 31, 6PM -8:30PM - contact us for more details.
Featured Project
Our work with Livestock Guardian Dogs continues to grow. Be sure to watch our LGD video to learn more!


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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
I've noticed some really ugly changes on my server. For one thing, people no longer sell Primal Mights for gold. Why? Its not worth it. What they do instead is sell Primal Mights for... the 5 primals used to create it.
The thing is that the 5 primals collectively are worth more then the Primal Might is, so if you make and sell a Primal Might you're actually losing money. (Most Alchemists I know also don't even bother selling Transmutes now, since Earth to Water makes 3x more gold then you can get selling a Transmute.)
The other major problem is in Engineering and Blacksmithing, where the last 15 points are absurdly expensive in materials. What I see is people sitting in trade offering 20g to anyone who brings them the materials to craft something.
Thats right. You want a scope made? Let me make it, and I'll give you 20g for the privilege.
When we get to the point that crafters are paying other people in order to get to advance their skill, the system is completely broken.


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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
They would have to do a major revamp of the instance, or else I imagine it going something like this:
-You port in. The tank takes off at a sprint, determined to skip every boss possible, which is pretty much all of them, excepting Thermaplugg. This, despite your protestations that you really need some gear that drops off of that bot who resides in the ass-end of the instance. (If you are the tank, just swap this out for DPS who will bitch at you for not skipping straight to the end.)
-Rather than take the long way around, someone decides the best way to go would be to jump down off the platforms. So the group of you all drop carefully down, avoiding a splattery death, except for that one guy who can't figure out how to land properly. But you keep going, except now that guy can't hook back up with the group because he's died and re-zoned four more times while trying to nail that landing. (Alternatively, one person goes off the platform alone while the rest of the group takes the long way. Now he's sitting by himself because he expects everyone to join him.)
-You start pushing through those long tunnles filled with Dark Iron Spies and other assorted mobs. First you wipe because somebody keeps setting off the mines before they can be disabled or ran from. Then you wipe because some putz can't figure out to stop casting while the defense bots have spell-reflect up. Then you wipe again because somebody accidentally attacked a mob in another part of the tunnel, drawing about 20 mobs down on the group.
-You finally make it to Thermaplugg. Except since it's heroic, you now have to actually worry about the buttons and the adds. But since nobody ever paid any attention to those, you'll wipe several times while the group gets overwhelmed with adds or blown to bits by the bomb adds. He finally goes down, except one guy rolls Need on loot for four different specs and then runs off laughing back to his server.
Does that sound about right?
Jack Spicer said...
I don't know if its been 6 years since you ran Gnomeregan, but its not really that complicated a place. The worst thing about it was the massive amount of patrolling trash, but that's been cut down considerably over the years.
Drakkenfyre said...
Over the years they have nerfed it over and over. It's not as hard as it once was.
The days of going in, and the final boss being 10 levels above you, having to hug the walls to keep from aggro'ing everything around you, and alarm-bots summoning 30 adds seem to be gone.
As much as I hate Gnomer, I don't like the idea of it becoming a Heroic simply because that means they most likely would completely change everything in it. I still miss the old Deadmines. I would rather not see another instance get a "revamp", which completely changes it on both normal and Heroic.
The first time I ran Gnomeregan was with a group of guildies back in 2004. We assumed that it would be roughly the same length as Deadmines.
Six hours later, it was 2am and we all had to hearth out due to work in the morning. The repair bill was astronomical (for the time) and we barely made it into the area with the Iron Dwarf Spies. Finding out the next day that we were almost done was the icing on the cake.
Gnomeregan, I do so hate you, in a thoroughly loving way.
I wouldn't mind seeing Gnomer in heroic, but I doubt they'll be doing that. While making it for Alliance makes sense, I just don't get what would the Horde possibly go there for. The place isn't a threat to them, it's irradiated and should they manage to kill Thermaplugg the gnomes would get their homes and considerable workshops back, giving the Alliance even more siege engines and gyrochoppas and whatnot. Chances are the Horde wouldn't be able to use it to launch an attack on Ironforge either, considering it's already under siege.
I am with you Drakk. I am one of the few who likes Gnomer as is. I miss the old Deadmines too. The only thing I would do different on deadmines is be able to mount or put a port in for those who don't like to wander aimlessly. As many times as I have ran it I still get lost getting to the instance. I don't know how people think Gnomer is too long. Dire Maul. Now that's too long. Maraudon. Ditto. I will say they are both a little better since putting in the maps.
spikepoint said...
Arturis: LOL, you described my own first experience in Gnomer so well that for a second I thought you might have been one of my old guildies.
@Hal - The scenario I see (kinda combines a couple you mentioned)
That dps that wants to skip straight to the end jumps off the platform no problem. Another dps that doesn't know about that, but sees the parachutes will grab one and jump. He floats off course, pulling the mobs and dieing. The other dps sits there waiting for the rest, except the tank is going the long way.
Now the one dps is bitching and waiting for the others to join (which they don't) and the other has no idea where the entrance is. The other three make it to a boss with careful pulls.The reluctant dps either has dropped or teleported out/in and rejoined him. The lost dps finally found the entrance, but don't know how to get to the group.
The other four decide are trying to explain where they are while standing fairly close to the boss. The one pulls a group by accident but can stay ahead of them. As they rejoin and try to take out the stray pack, the boss pulls and they wipe.
As this is now a solid 30-45 mins in, try to imagine how the rest of the dungeon goes. Oh wait, it doesn't. The tank, healer, and one dps get back to the entrance, zone in, hearth and drop. Another dps rezzes at the graveyard, drops, hearths, and requeue since it will be over 10 mins til he gets anywhere anyways. Nobody is sure what that dps that got lost all the time did, but his spirit was well on the way to Ironforge asking for directions when that last person left group.
loop_not_defined said...
While I understand why people would miss losing the original instance (revamping in general, not just Gnomer), I think there is more to gain from keeping the lore consistent - especially if it advances the story - and updating a dungeon with current tech (mechanics, layout, possibly graphics).
For me, BRD and Scholomance were the two instances I ran most: first one for Hand of Justice, second one for Silent Fang. However, I would *love* to see these instances updated with current lore, design, and tech. After all, wouldn't the Dark Irons be in civil war with Moira and others seeking to rejoin their brethren and others wishing to remain loyal to Ragnaros? What if her desires are actually part of a deeper plot?
I don't think it's fair to ask new (and existing) players to wait until they are 70-85 to experience the relatively large advances made in dungeon design, with just SFK and DM to wet their palettes.
everyone has forgotten one common occurence- everyone jumps, everyone is fine, but even after you kill the mob that the dps aggroed because he fell on it, everyone is still in combat. "Why are we in combat," you ask with a growing sense of trepidation as you realize what must have happened. the healer jumped a little late, and before jumping, he got the attention of one of the non elite pats up above. so now that pat has taken the long way around, and 3 minutes later comes out of the tunnel with the entire first half of the instance in tow.
@Eirik I once spent 8 hours in there, the entire group turning over except for me, and we only got halfway.
Then I did it in a pug, expecting to not go far, and cleared it in 2 hours.
It was awesome.
I hope they don't "fix" BRD. The fact it takes forever is what made it so fun.


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Recently, Lindsay Lohan has been a woman full of controversy. She is one of the celebrities featured a lot in gossip blogs, magazines and talk shows in the recent past. Unfortunately, all the publicity she is getting is for the wrong reasons. It seems there is nothing good she has done. One of the things that made people focus their attention so much on Lindsay is the list of people she claims she had sex with. One of the people found on the list is James Franco.
Most people know James Franco as the guy who constantly posts controversial selfies on his Instagram account. In fact, that is what may have boosted his fame. His fame got a another boost when he was named in the famous Lindsay Lohan's sex list. Many people know him now thanks to the 'passionate night' he spent with Lindsay in a hotel room. This is all documented in a fictional essay he wrote.
According to the Mirror.uk, the 36 year old actor has written a piece to retaliate the claims about him spending a night with Lilo, 27. The fictional essay he wrote for Vice Magazine centered on a character named Lindsay Lohan. He writes that Lindsay visited him in his hotel room, Chateau Mermont in LA. The piece has been titled Bungalow 89. James writes that Lindsay knocked at the door and asked if she could sleep on his couch because she was lonely.
When he decided to let her in, they went to bed together. He says that they lay in bed together and that he had no intention to have sex with her. She put her head in James shoulders and she started talking. She talked for a very long time and he didn't stop her. James goes on to write that while she was laying on his chest, he ran his fingers through her head wondering what she was going to do. He hoped that she would get better because she is famous.
James Franco says a lot of things about Lindsay Lohan. He explains who she is and why she is famous. He explains that Lindsay is famous because she was a child actress who was very talented. But he claims that now she is only famous because of getting into trouble. He says that she is a woman who is so damaged today. He reveals that there was a time when she could not get work because she could not be insured. People were hesitant to give her work because they feared she can leave the sets to go a party. It appeared that this was the reason why she stayed jobless for a long time.
James Franco further explains how her career suffered and her arrests. He says Lindsay has been arrested for causing car accidents, DUI, stealing and for other reasons. However the arrests and all the bad publicity never caught her emotions because of all the attention she received. She felt that they gave her as much attention as she used to get when she was a famous child actress. Her two performances, one on real life and the other in film had finally melted into one.
By now, almost everyone knows how the real Lilo feels about the piece written by James Franco. Surprisingly, she has not complained about how her privacy was breached.
The list of 36 people that Lindsay said she was involved with sexually as published in January by US magazine In Touch. Apparently the list was left behind in a Beverly Hills hotel.
James Franco is not the only celebrity on the list. Other big celebrity names in the list include Justin Timberlake, Ashton Kutcher, Zac Efron and Adam Levine.
In April, James had admitted that he had kissed Lindsay but insisted that he has never had sex with her. He said that was a big lie and swore on his mother's life that he never slept with her when he was being interview by Howard Stern, one of Shock joc radio DJs. He said that he can swear on anything that he never had sex with Lindsay. He clarified that the only thing they did was sharing a lame kiss and that was it. He said she was delusional and was shocked to see his name put on that list. So it appears James Franco did not sleep with Lindsay Lohan.
You can read James Franco's full essay he wrote here: Bungalow 89


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