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Ask the Readers: How to Talk About Money with Teenagers?
Published on - April 23rd, 2010 (by J.D. Roth)
Most readers here at Get Rich Slowly have their own tale of a financial turnaround. Many of us were just plain dumb with money when we were younger, and it took us years (or decades!) to realize the error of our ways. But what if somebody had cared enough to intervene before we got into serious trouble?
Corinne wrote yesterday looking for help. She'd like to help steer her younger sister in the right direction before she has financial trouble. But how should she do it? What's the best way to reach a teenager who doesn't even know they're financially irresponsible? Here's Corinne's question:
I come from a wonderful family, with parents who are great in many ways, but are also just terrible with money. Fortunately, I've managed to avoid following in my parents' footsteps — I'm 25, with a well-paying job, and have started really organizing my finances well and planning for my future.
My younger sister, however, may not be so lucky. She's 18, about to start college, and just couldn't care less about being smart with money. I want to guide her and inspire her to learn about personal finance sooner rather than later because I wish someone had done that for me. Do you know of any personal finance books that would appeal to a teenager? Any thoughts on how to frame my advice so that it's well-received?
This is a great question, especially for this time of year. And while I'd love to be able to say, "Go buy Your Money: The Missing Manual — that's the best choice!", I don't actually think my book is good for a kid out of high school. (My book is good for folks who are serious about their finances, who are motivated to succeed. It doesn't sound like Corinne's sister qualifies.)
So what books about money are good for teenagers and young adults? Here are a few top choices:
- I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi. My friend Ramit set out to write a money book for young people, and he succeeded admirably. Even if I had no idea who he was, this would be the first book I'd recommend for most students. Two drawbacks to note: Not everyone likes his tone and style, and the book doesn't really address the psychology of spending. (Here's my review.)
- Debt is Slavery by Michael Mihalik. I raved about this book a few years ago. Of all the personal finance books I've read, I think this would have been most useful for me when I was in college. It's not a comprehensive guide to IRAs and stocks and bonds; it's a short treatise on how to take control of your financial life.
- The Money Book for the Young, Fabulous, and Broke by Suze Orman. This is a pretty comprehensive introduction to personal finance aimed specifically at young adults. There's almost too much information.
- Reality Check: The Student's Guide to the Real World by Grant Baldwin. I haven't read this book; the publisher sent me a copy, and I've leafed through it. It gets great reviews at Amazon.
- Get a Financial Life: Personal Finance in Your Twenties and Thirties by Beth Kobliner. This book comes highly recommended, but I haven't read it.
The second part of Corinne's question is tricky. How can she give advice to her sister without angering her or making her turn away? I've found from my own experience (and from chatting with others) that it's difficult to get somebody to heed your advice until they're ready to hear it. They have to come to it on their own. In fact, it's possible to alienate the person you're trying to help if you come across as an evangelist. If you push personal-finance books on somebody, they may be offended.
Instead, I think it's best to lead by example. If Corinne thinks her sister should change, she should subtly show her what smart personal finance looks like, and then contrast that with how her parents are doing. Or maybe Corinne could pick up a copy of I Will Teach You to Be Rich, read it, and then offer to pass it on when she's finished.
Another smart technique is to think out loud in front of the person you're trying to help. Say Corinne is buying a car, for example. Even though she may know perfectly well what she wants to do — buy a late-model used car with cash — she might approach her sister and say, "I'm not sure what to do." If Corinne lays out her options and her thought process, asking her sister's help, she might be able to help her sister see how she arrives at her eventual decision. (Please note that the car thing is hypothetical; it could be any other sort of financial dilemma.)
The key in these situations is finesse. You want to get your message across, but you want to do it from a position of equality, not superiority. And, if possible, you want to do this so that the other person "owns" the action. That's how I'd approach it, anyhow.
Have you faced this situation in the past? How did you handle it? How do you think you'd handle it today? How would you try to talk about money with a teenager? What books would you recommend? How would you get them to even care?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Basics, Kids
To say that some people don't like Ramit's tone or style is an understatement. He comes off flat rude and condescending sometimes and mean at others. His advice is valuable, and it's unfortunate that a lot of people who may need it will never get past his tone. I can't see a teenager who knows nothing about money management taking his lessons very well.
I agree that at this late stage the best advice is being a role model. It is way better to catch them when they are younger. However, if she asks, go for it.
I like Motley Fool books for teens…
The Motley Fools Investment Guide for Teens; How to have more money than your parents ever dreamed of. This book is written for younger teens but explains basics in very clear english. It's not just about investing but about choices in personal finance.
They also have one about college which I have just started reading and You Have More Than You Think You Have: The Foolish Guide to Personal Finance.
A book may be a good gesture, but is not always appreciated (or even read).
Talking with your sister and sharing your experiences is much more personal and builds on your shared experiences. Also, talk about your parents… since you both have that in common. "What do you think mom and dad did well? What do you want to do differently than they did?" Since you have obviously thought about these questions, there should be opportunity for a good conversation.
I'm surprised this post didn't include blogs! A book might not be well received, but I think teenagers would respond well to blogs. I'd recommend GRS, but there are many blogs out there for younger people as well. You can always go the "I read an interesting post on such-and-such an issue, what do you think about it?" route.
Another way to go is financial make-over TV shows. I'm not sure what's available in the States, but shows like "Maxed Out" or those shows were brides go hideously over budget for their weddings can help start conversations about money.
Unasked for "advice" tends not to go down wonderfully with anyone, especially teenagers! However, I like the thinking-out-loud option. The other think to do is just talk to her. Find out what her goals in life are. Does she want to go to college? Get a car? Live in a place of her own? Then discuss how money can be used to fund these options, how said money can be obtained, and what the pros and cons of each option is.
The key thing here is to *discuss*, not dictate. Let her lead the conversation, and bring in your experiences (good and bad). It may also be worth splitting it over a period of time so that it doesn't get too heavy. Maybe you could organise a girly afternoon for the two of you and work it into that?
I just got out of my teenager phase only a few years ago. Thankfully, my financial situation is more like Connie's.
The sad thing is: If the sister hasn't been taught about financial responsibility while growing up, it will be harder to accept advice in her college years. This would be tough to do, but letting her learn from her own mistakes may be a good option here.
I will agree with your recommendation for Ramit Sethi's blog (not the book though – I don't know too many teens who would be willing to read a personal finance book in their spare time).
And I also agree with SF_UK that the discussions have to be geared towards goals. I remember as a teen and even in undergrad, I was very focussed on the NOW and short-term goals. I seldom gave too much thought to long term stuff except in very general ways.
Getting a teen and young adult to think about concrete longer term goals will also make them aware of some of the financial groundwork that will need to be in place to make those goals happen.
I agree with SF_UK.
Unsolicited advice doesn't sit well with anyone – especially teenagers.
The best way to drill a lesson home is to let teenagers make their own mistakes; mistakes will happen no matter how much advice you provide.
Your job as an older sibling or a parent is just to be there for damage control.
As a counselor I can tell you the best way to foster change in someone else is called "Motivational Interviewing." DO NOT tell them why they're wrong or what they should be doing. Instead, listen to their reasons ("I need a PS3 because…") and totally acknowledge the positives of why they think that. ("It's true, you do love video games, and I hear it's a great system.") and usually the person will then feel safe to comment negatively ("but then again I don't have the cash for it, I'm not sure it's smart") and then you can subtly suggest. Say, "Well, you could always save up for it, that's what I'd do, it will still be there," and then expect them not to take your advice. It takes a long time to learn things and you have to let people make mistakes without judging them. All along, live your life as an example and she'll probably get there.
I love giving unsolicited advice, but unfortunately this post is dead on:
If you're thinking of giving your sister a gift as a high school graduation/congrats on starting college present, maybe you could include a personal finance book. If you have a good relationship with your sister, maybe you can make her up a care package (a gift certificate for a coffee place, so she can get late-night caffeine fixes while writing papers, a phone card to call home, some lavender hand cream to help de-stress, etc etc). You could even include a letter telling her you're proud of her and hope she does well, and the reasons why you're including each gift that you give her. This will let you bring up finance stuff without coming on too strong, and will still allow you to communicate the care you want to show your sister.
You say that you wish you had started learning about personal finance earlier… why? Did you make mistakes you wish you hadn't? I find people are more likely to value what you have to say when you speak from a place of sharing your life experience, rather than 'giving advice.'
I totally agree with the blog post Four Pillars linked to!
This might be more for parents, and more for background, but as a parent, I enjoy reading the Wall Street Journal "Yoder and Son" column every Sunday (http://online.wsj.com/search/aggregate.html?article-doc-type={Yoder+%26+Son}). In it, a father and one of his teenage sons talk about how they look at money. Two sons tend to rotate — one still in high school, and one in college. They seem to hit a lot of typical, albeit high-middle-class issues about who buys what, how to save, when to spend, etc. I most enjoy the conversations they have about money.
Is there any way you can show her what you do and how you do it, perhaps by asking for some advice or her input, as others have suggested? Maybe she's good with clothes, so you can ask for help and go over your clothing budget and where that number comes from — you get the idea. Also, be willing to share some "I was so dumb!" stories — I think siblings like those, too.
As a college freshman myself, I agree that most college students or teenagers in general don't want to think about personal finance or any responsibility in general. I'd like to share how I got into personal finance as a teenager. The way I got into it is twofold:
First, I saw my brother and sister get themselves into a mess. They'd borrow in the hundreds of dollars from me when I had part time jobs to pay off a bill and would sometimes pay it back, other times not. I refused to do that to myself… i knew that since I had to be the rock for my older siblings, I felt a sense of responsibility to take care of my entire family, as best I could. And that meant not putting pressure on my parents to bail me out of my money issues by not having any issues.
The second way I started acting more responsibly was in part thanks to my parents. While they never truly taught me about personal finance specifically, they made me responsible for myself. When I wanted to get my license, I had to convince them why it was a good idea, find a way to pay for driver's ed, for the test, for the license itself. Even when I got my license, I couldn't drive much. I had to prove myself. I bought my first car from my sister, in cash. My parents were willing to pay insurance, and my dad did repairs himself, but did not pay for the car or the gas at all. They gave me a small gas allowance only my senior year of high school because I quit my job under their advice (I was stretching myself too thin) and I was driving myself to school (no buses to my house). My parents also refused to pay for anything that wasn't necessary. New shirt I liked from the store? I had to buy it. New winter coat because my old one is too small/worn out? A necessity, and therefore they were willing to buy me a fairly inexpensive one. Even with college– while I was impossible for me to get private loans without a cosigner, the loans are my responsibility. My parents don't contribute any large amount for my tuition.
All these factors pushed me to be independent. My advice is this: Find a way to (slowly) push your sister into having to take care of herself financially. And help her. But don't do it for her. If she needs student loans, tell her to find some loans to apply for online, and then go through why each is a good or bad option. If she wants a credit card, make sure she has to demonstrate her knowledge of them before even considering it– quiz her if you must, on what will happen if she gets into debt, facts about the particular card she wants, etc. And have your parents help– if they just give her a card without making sure she understands them, there will be trouble. Also, I try to gently nudge my family into better habits: if I find a scary personal finance story, I email it to everyone to warn them. If I find good advice, I email that too. That way, you aren't forcing it on them– you are simply saying, wow, I can't believe x happened to this person! And you are opening up a conversation. Then you can demonstrate your knowledge of personal finance. Say things like, did you know…? Or, offer to help her set everything up for college. Go through and decide on which savings or checking account to open, and tell her– wow! this one charges $15 a month! think how much that is!
After you build up her confidence in you as someone able and willing to help her with her financial problems, without making it seem like you are trying to intervene, she will come to you herself. It takes time. But after a while, even the least expected people will be willing to listen and ask for your advice. Even my parents come to me sometimes (and I haven't turned 19 yet).
I think the thinking outloud/asking for help approach probably has the best chance of success, but then again it doesn't sound like the sister is really interested in money at all.
I'd maybe consider asking her for advice on things that she's good at, and then taking her advice. Then later if she has problems, she may feel comfortable turning to you for advice in return. Asked-for advice is slightly more likely to be acted on.
Truthfully, there's really no way to make someone aware about finances unless they wish to become aware. It's almost like there are two perspectives about money, with GRS readers obviously being on the other side. Corinne's sister will have to make that step into the other side, and only then will she be apt to listening to Corinne's advice.
I have experienced this first hand, trying to help my girlfriend become aware in finances. However, her and her mother firmly believe that my girlfriend's circumstances are different than everyone else, and mine especially. Basically, they think I'm financially fit because I make more money than them. But in retrospect, I have accomplished many things with my salary, which most regular* people couldn't fathom doing with the same salary.
I tried to let her know that it's all about being a good steward with the money that comes into your life now. If you can't manage that well, why would God trust you with more? And although I like to refer to the spiritual context of that line, it can very easily be applied logically also.. Basically though, Corinne's sister needs to be humbled in the world of finances so she can realize she needs the advice.
*I want to emphasize that when I say regular people, I am referring to people outside of financial awareness. GRS readers aren't the norm
This is a tough question – I think everyone understands the difficulty – it is a lot more about capturing the sister's heart than about capturing her mind. I like the idea of addressing her as an equal,specifically
1) ASK her – What's your fantasy from a financial standpoint? Do you want to be a millionaire? Do you want to develop passive income? and ask – HOW will you do that? What's the first step you'll take? What's the next? How will you get to your end point? What are the potential obstacles that might come up? Assuming they can have an engaged conversation about the sister's own future, Corinne can share her own experiences with each stage and issue.
Another idea – have fun with it. Check out some financial calculators together and play with them, do the math. See how the numbers and outcomes change with each change in variable, e.g., what would happen if there were no social security? What about if inflation was 6% vs. 3%? What if I only earn 4% return? etc. There are so many online resources, maybe playing with these tools will appeal more to a know-it-all teen.
Finally – I just adore the Dominguez/Robin book Your Money Or Your Life, especially the part that challenges the reader to calculate the REAL value of each hour of work – and then evaluate every expenditure against the amount of their LIFE they have to exchange to purchase it. It's incredibly eye-opening.
I'm in the same situation with my brother, I'm 25 and learned the hard way – now i'm paying off student loans and other small debts (my car's been paid off for 2 years now, buying cash for the next, hopefully in 5+ years when mine dies).
My almost-20 year old brother reminds me of myself at his age, spending his money on material things and not saving at all. I did give him a finance book but he hasn't read it, and since I live in a different state it's hard to offer advice when he/I have questions. And I know I sure didn't listen to anyone when I was his age. I might try that blog suggestion, thanks!
As a parent I've found it's best to sneak information about finances in regular conversation. For example, a payday loan office opened on the same block as their highschool, which gave us an opportunity to discuss interest rates. Or I might mention a horror story I read on a blog about credit card debt. We are pretty open about some of our financial decisions too.
Hopefully we have given them some good examples to follow. My teens are pretty frugal shoppers, especially when it is their own money they are spending! They research major purchases carefully.
first, i love the idea of thinking out loud and getting her input so that you can then show her why paying cash for a used car is a better idea. secondly, as part of my job i go into local area high school and teach young adults about credit and how to use it responsibly. The response from the students and teachers alike has been overwhelming and it definitely seems like this is something schools should be doing more of to prepare kids for their financial futures.
We get it, JD. You wrote a book. I'm sure it's awesome, and I sincerely hope you sell lots of copies. But I'm sick of you plugging it. It's making me like GRS less.
I know as someone who is staring to work towards debt reduction and finanical freedom ( I am just a beginner and sharing my journey through my blog) I WISH someone talk to me and role modeled early on effective money management. But now that I see the light and want to share what I learn with others I do agree that people do not take unsolicited advice very well. Which is a shame because it could really help them.
My sister is the same way. So I try to talk to her about money. Falls on deaf ears. Never thought to get her a book but I personally love suzie orman and her books. I think I may look into that one.
This situation with the sister rings so true for me also. My husband and I had been working on becoming debt-free with Dave Ramsey for the past 11 months and I really wanted to share with my two younger sisters (23 and 21) what I had learned and how they could achieve financial success, too. They both have been notoriously bad with money, the younger one has always been very vocal about it and my middle sister, not so much. But I knew they were living paycheck to paycheck and were in major credit card debt. I felt it was my personal responsibility being the oldest (at 24) to help them, as my parents (although they are good with their money) never shared anything with us financially as we were growing up.
They both knew of our goal, and when we reached it and we were calling into Dave's radio show to do our DEBT-FREE scream, I emailed my entire family to let them know and to listen. Both of them did – and I know it was inspiring to other family members.
For Christmas, I bought them each a copy of 'The Total Money Makeover'. The youngest one (who is always eager to please), read it and started to apply some of the concepts to her life and tried paying down her credit card. The other (who is my-way-or-the-highway), promptly put it on her bookshelf and went out and bought a new car with $450/mo in car payments.
You win some, you lose some, but at least I can sleep at night knowing I've tried. I'll be here for them when they want to talk about it and I'll continue to lead by example.
I actually think that Suze Orman's Young Broke and Fabulous is a terrible choice.
Apparently it was the go-to book of my generation (I didn't get the memo) and now I have a ton of friends who are really regretting taking her advice to spend on that credit card early in their careers (especially during graduate school).
Going into low interest education debt for school is one thing. High interest credit card debt takes a lot longer to dig out of and traps you. She's far too permissive about when to carry a balance.
In fact, it really gives exactly the opposite advice of Your Money or Your Life. Sure, consumption smoothing is the economically rational thing to do. But, from a behavioral standpoint, it is much better to pay your dues while you're young so that you can enjoy an increasing quality of life as time goes on. A little sacrifice early on means a lot less sacrifice and a lot more freedom later. Financial independence in your 30s or 40s is actually possible, but not if you follow Suze's advice (unless you really luck out with a start-up).
How about the David Bach book for women?
Oh, I second The Motley Fools Investment Guide for Teens. They are awesome and explain things very clearly.
p.s. I've spent a lifetime giving my little sister unsolicited advice. She's used to it. And more often than not, she follows it when it is something she doesn't know anything about. When DH's little brother got his first job, we gave him advice on putting money away for retirement first and he took it. Little sibs sometimes do listen to their older siblings in a way they wouldn't listen to their parents.
Depending on the teenager, I think a short video would have more of an impact, or possible even a game. It would be nice if the video includes some pre-printed very simplified budget sheets too. And I mean really simplified!!!
I know when I read "Get a Financial Life: Personal Finance in Your Twenties and Thirties by Beth Kobliner", I only read a small part of the subject that interested me. A teenager would even read less (depending once again on the teenager…).
I agree 100% that a person will only be financial advice when they are ready to hear it. But if they were taught the foundations in school, they'd be more open to it…
I have heard Dave Ramsey mention this- it is what I would do- pick a book that you think would help her, then tell her you will pay her $100 to read it and give you a book report on it.
I've seen one of the best things I've done with my teens is play podcasts out loud while they are lounging around the house. Clark Howard is a good one as they get a kick out of his sound affects announcing ripoffs and he talks about all issues including the dollar menu at restaurants that grabs their attention. Over the years they have come to know Dave Ramsey, Clark Howard and Bruce Williams just because its on instead of TV! Also nextdoor to their favorite video game store is a cash rip off place. We have lots of conversation about THOSE places when I take them to browse at their store!
Expose your sister to the downsides of bad money management indirectly – maybe share stories of things that happened to people you know, or whatever, conversationally. This worked wonders for my little sister. She was a big spender when she was young, ripping through her allowance and borrowing money, etc. But later on she learned about other people's mistakes and it changed her: a part time job in college working for a forensic economist gave her the opportunity to look at other people's tax returns and hear about personal injury, wrongful death and fraud cases. She quickly realized that people get into debt through bad luck or bad decisions, and that it can quickly escalate into a horror story.
By her mid 20s she had goals (grad school, travel) and started to ask me and our parents questions…and she was able to make a decision to use short-term CDs to save intelligently for grad school, choose the best type of loan, and looks forward to the day when she has a good job (gotten thru the grad education.) She plans to quickly pay off her loan and eventually open a Roth IRA. Way to go little sis!
I don't think books are the best way to teach teenagers about money.
Instead I would suggest:
1. The parents to clean up their own act. As with alcohol, drugs, being on time, over eating, arguing/fighting with spouses etc… kids do what their parents *do*
2. A part time job. They control the money, being free to learn the lessons of managing the money well and being free to learn the lessons of not managing it well. Along the same lines one of those "deposit cash first" credit cards would be good for this. When the money runs out and stays run out, it will teach them plastic is "Real Money".
3. A allowance with a fixed amount. Same rationale as #2.
I was the "irresponsible" teenager and I hated the label. I knew my family thought I was a spendthrift and it hurt me to the point that when I did need help, I didn't feel comfortable going to ask them, because I didn't want to deal with their judgmental attitude.
What some people will see as bad financial sense, a teenager on the cusp of adulthood might see as differing priorities. I wasn't spending my money on ridiculous things. I spent it on school, helping a friend with utilities, taking people out to lunch who couldn't afford to otherwise. I lived my life like a non-profit, which I know was a bad idea, but once I needed help I didn't know who had my best interests at heart, and who just wanted to say "I told you so."
If someone had sat with me and asked me, "What are your priorities?" and after GENUINELY listening said, "Let's see how we can stretch your money to fulfill all those." I would've gladly sat down and learned more about how to improve my finances.
Sometimes when someone "couldn't care less about being smart with money" it's because they have other priorities and don't see how finances would help.
Take your sister out someplace you can actually talk and enjoy each other's company. Ask her what her real plans are with college; is there anything she's thought about experimenting with as a career, has she thought about study abroad, and then listen. At the end of a mutual conversation say, you know that it can be difficult financially to accomplish all your goals in college and you want to support her as much as you can to achieve her goals, so if she wants any financial information, you have a couple books she can read, and you'd be happy to show her how you manage your finances. You want a happy, worry free life for her and you are excited for her future.
Then you have to wait for her to come to you. It's the hardest part, but it will happen eventually. Hopefully if it happens "too late" you can still be calm, supportive, and non-judgemental. Because any time someone asks for help, it's not too late. And remember, as a sister, you can show concern, you can guide, but you CANNOT parent. Regardless of their financial conduct, she already has those.
@beforewisdom you wrote what I would recommend, except: handling money should NOT wait until a child is a teenager. Giving an allowance to a child will permit a child to learn about money when he or she can still fail without any major consequences.
It's important to give some basic rules around the allowance. One way is to split the allowance three ways – savings, spending, and charity.
@TosaJen – I follow the WSJ and "Yoder and sons". Very spirited discussions on teens spend their money.
32I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for their thoughtful comments! (I'm the Corinne in the post ) And thanks again to J.D. for sharing my question!
I love a lot of your ideas about how to approach this. I think the thinking-out-loud, what-do-you-think-about-this-financial-issue approach would work particularly well for my sister. She's very independent-minded and likes to be treated as an adult.
I also particularly like Lisa's idea of a college care package that includes a personal finance book, with an explanation of each item. I'm definitely going to do that for her.
Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas and experiences!
Adding onto the 'think out loud' idea: DH has gotten further with his sister by telling her stupid things he's done than telling her what should be done. He talks about how he wasn't ready mentally to buy a house, or about how much money he spent on this or that and later regretted it. She is really resistant and that seems to be the only stuff she listens to. So much depends on the relationship. If little sis looks up to Corinne then she can just give advice. If little sis resents Corinne then she will get further with DH's method.
Second, I would talk to the parents. Just because they don't manage money well doesn't have a bearing on how they will handle their daughter. Many parents, both good and bad with money, enable their kids to not learn from their money mistakes by bailing them out. If possible Corinne should talk to her parents now about likely mistakes her sister will make and how to approach it as a family. Part of the reason DH's sister never learns or takes his advice is because it is far easier to go to their mom to pay the rent she can't afford this month or whatever the current crisis is.
Most parents aren't cool with leaving young adults out to dry, and that's not what I'm saying, but there are ways of doing things to make it less comfortable. If she runs out of food money you could send cash, or you can buy a meal card to the cafeteria (if she's in college). She can still eat, but the freedom is severely restricted. Or send a grocery card. It might just buy TV dinners, but once again it will cramp her style while still making sure she has enough to eat.
Hands down – THE best finance book for anyone especially a teenager is The Richest Man in Babylon by George Clason.
It's timeless…
100% agree with 26/Tiffany. Buy her "I Will Teach You To Be Rich" and offer her $100 if she reads it and can carry on a conversation about it (or write a report on it).
If she doesn't read the book for $100, you're not going to be able to do much to help her. She doesn't value money yet. Life is going to have to teach her some lessons before you can help.
If she does read the book, then not only does she understand the value of easy money (yay!), she has just been given the knowledge to help her get more easy money.
fwiw, I thought "Debt is Slavery" was great and wish I had read it 30 years ago.
Disagree with those who advocate a completely hands-off, "damage control" approach. Personal finance involves skills that are learned, not inherent: these skills don't magically blossom after a financial misstep. If they did, would we see people making the same mistakes over and over again?
Believe it or not, most people really don't learn by making mistakes. They learn by having their mistakes corrected by someone who cares.
Looks like Corinne is already on board with the "talk and listen and be a good example" advice. Good luck! Being a good example is hard work!
@Karen #21, buzz off. It's J.D.'s blog and he is completely entitled to use it to promote his book. EVERY for-profit blog promotes the writer's product or service.
I chime with the "true horrible stories of people you know" approach. I would also focus on 1-2 of the most risky problems for her age, like using credit cards without paying them off each month.
Maybe start with a "you may already know this but I really wish I had known it at your age…" intro, and emphasize that good behavior allows for more independence (whereas loads of debt = slavery).
If a total failure, you can then tell her true horrible stories of herself and see if it soaks in…
You could use money as a carrot–Say that you'll give them $100 but they have to match it and keep it in a savings account until they … (some goal) finish high school, finish the year whatever, or save towards a vacation in NYC or something. Tell them if they can do the match you'll contribute again.
Because my biggest issue as a teen re saving money—I didn't have any so it didn't make any sense to save–so why not spend it instead? Perhaps if you give them concrete a reason to save and help them to do it, they will get the reward and start to realize the power of saving.
The Richest Man in Babylon…just do it!
Take her out to dinner, describe compound interest and compound debt, show her her potential in both situations with concrete examples (excel printouts would help).
Offer to go with her to set up a Roth IRA and direct deposit (if she will have income this year)
Books will not work until she is bought in.
I mentioned Roth IRA's to my 19 year old sister who's getting her first internship this summer. I also got her a copy of David Bach's Automatic Millionaire since it's one of the few financial books I actually enjoyed. She said thanks and wrote me an email a few weeks later asking questions, so yay!
My brother is 20 and is going through this "into the wild" phase (no work, no posessions,no ties to anything). He's got nearly 2000 dollars in debt, doesn't have a job, and has not made a payment in 2 years, the creditors call him everyday. He insists that theyl "forget" about him. I'm 22 and its hard to see him go down the same road I went down and had to bust ass to get out of. He just doesn't care about money or anything, he doesn't even have a phone. I don't know how to help him. He's very stubborn. Oh well I guess he'll grow up eventually.
Have a conversation about compound interest.
The way I got my teenaged daughter (18) to start caring is we sat down with an online RRSP calculator and plugged in some numbers. She estimated that this year she could save enough to put $800 in long term, retirement savings. She realized that if she never contributed another dime in her life that the original $800 would turn into $29,000 by the time she was 65. I could SEE the lightbulb go on over her head! She has been a savings machine ever since and has saved over $2000 in 5 months in long and short term savings from her part-time job. We have also had the same "compound interest" conversation regarding credit and carrying debt.
I'm hoping these little lessons turn into a lifetime of responsible money management for her. Especially because she still has a teenagers mind when it comes to life expectations and sometimes gets carried away dreaming about what her future career earnings will buy her. She figures that once she has her career established in four or five years, she'll be wearing Louis Vuitton and Chanel everyday. Keep dreaming, Sweetie!
Good question, I have a little sister that I've been thinking about talking to about personal finance. I tend to come off as lecturing though when we have these conversations, so this post is very relevant to me. Thanks for the ideas.
I have found that pointing out previous examples of the teens behaviour goes a long way. You might browse the items the teen has previously purchased and discuss how she feels about them now, and if she had the opportunity to do it over would she still have spent the money. This makes them reflect on thier own decisions. They assign thier own value to the recent purchase. It's like buying fireworks for the 4th of july… Yeah they were fun but what could I have bought that I would have enjoyed and still had something to show for it other than the warm fuzzy feeling of watching something explode.
Opportunity Cost
This is a fantastic way to get a teenager to understand purchase choices. If you only have X amount of dollars, what are you going to spend it on, and how does it affect all of the other areas your life, and what are you giving up by purchasing this particular item.
This obviously doesn't work if they know that someone is going to be there 2 weeks later to buy the 2nd, or 3rd choice item they wanted.
Sitting down and going through a budget with what they earn/make. Go through the fun items first and see how much is left, if anything for the real needs such as rent or food.
The majority of us failed at times while we were young… I can remember spending way too much at bars or on video games or buying weed.
Useless items that are emotionally fun but not worth the financial cost when you look back. Sorta like buying a sports car(made that mistake when I was old) we all relapse.
Procrastamom @ 42 — that was a great idea! I like how you engaged your daughter in that creative way. DO encourage her to work hard hard for things she wants (especually since you are already driving the importance of avoiding debt and savings to her now). You never know — she could do very well her first couple of years out of school and buy all of those Louis Vuitton and Chanel items she desires! People told me to keep dreaming. I dreamed all the way to six figures @ 24 years old (in a very cheap cost of living state). Keep dreaming girl!!!!!!
When I graduated from college and moved out on my own, my older brother helped me make a budget. I would suggest Corrine ask her sister if she has thought about making a budget and offer to help. It can be difficult to make a budget if you've never lived on your own before and have no idea what to expect to spend on things like utilities and groceries.
My little sister is graduating from college next month, and I've been thinking about buying her a personal finance book. The problem with many of the books directed towards young adults is that the titles seem condescending. I think it might offend her if I give her a book titled, "Reality Check."
I think I would invite her to dinner to congratulate a change in life phase – sort of like a rite of passage. And during the outing, mention that when you were making that transition, you did some really dumb things and hope that she can avoid them: using credit cards, buying too many clothes, depending on mom & dad, etc. You can stretch it to make a point!
I would also share some of the horror stories of college students comitting suicide because they got over their heads with credit card debt. Stress that nothing is so bad, and even if she makes mistakes that you are there for her. And even better if you can help her before the mistakes.
Just a sisters date, talking about what it's like to grow up.
Surprised that I haven't seen this yet, but when I was a teenager, I read "Learn to Earn" by Peter Lynch and John Rothchild. I thought it was a great book (so much so that I started investing in stocks when I was 15). So that's definitely a good choice, IMHO.
I'd also like to second 26/Tiffany's suggestion of the pay-for-a-book-report. This technique was actually used on me (quite successfully, I might add). Although for me, it was introduced by a friend's wealthy dad… he said: Read "Richest Man in Babylon" (which has been suggested also, and is a GREAT suggestion!) and "The Millionaire Next Store" (which hasn't been mentioned, but it still a great book) and in return, I was offered $1000… which I immediately put towards my college tuition.
Mind you, I'm sure $100 would be a great "carrot" to dangle in order to get her to read it. It's money well spent.
When I was in college, my father would drive the 4-hour round trip to pick me up from school and take me home for holidays (well until he started putting me on Amtrak…). During this time we had two hours together in the car and he would just talk about things – usually money. He would basically tell me stories about why he did the things he did. How he bought a house, how he decides when and to whom to donate money, what percentage of his salary he puts into savings and how and why it has changed over the years. I don't remember ever having anything to contribute to these conversations but I certainly remember them now that I've bought a house, donate to charity, and save a portion of my paychecks!


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This comes days after evidence of corruption within CONCACAF was brought to light at a recent congress meeting held in Panama. The findings were presented by the body's integrity committee, David Simmons, accusing former CONCACAF heads Jack Warner and Chuck Blazer of carrying out fraudulent activities during their time at the Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football.
Those following FIFA and Sepp Blatter's Twitter accounts would have seen a barrage of tweets commenting about a 'meeting' held to discuss the decision to host the 2022 FIFA World Cup games in Qatar.
They also went on to say that "Sepp Blatter has been investigated for multiple charges of bribery" and that "it was decided that the president Sepp Blatter is to step down due to corruption charges". For those who don't actively follow the accounts (like myself), I was actually shocked when I saw some of retweets that Sepp Blatter had decided to step down given the timing of the Jack Warner/Chuck Blazer issue.
After checking through their profile and Sepp Blatter's, I realized that both profiles were hacked by the Syrian Electronic Army. Their last tweet on both accounts linked to an article that discussed their hacks into major news agency accounts including the BBC, NPR, and various CBS affiliated programs including 60 Minutes.

subset: commoncrawl


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Surgery and Interventional Science
Implementing change into the Australian Healthcare System: Patient Blood Management - Dr Simon Towler, Chief Medical Officer, Western Australia
Starts: Sep 22, 2014 5:30:00 PM
Academic Surgical Meeting - October 2014
Starts: Oct 2, 2014 9:00:00 AM
Division awarded Athena SWAN Bronze Award
New MSc in Perioperative Medicine
MSc in Performing Arts Medicine
Dr Jennie Morton discusses the MSc in Performing Arts Medicine with the BMJ.
The Division offers world class training in a wide range of subjects which include a number of second and third year options for MBBS students, plus a number of iBSC and MSc programmes.
Three major themes define the Division's research interests: Tissue and Energy, Materials and Tissue, and Nanotechnology. All three integrate basic, translational and clinical research through collaborations both within and outside of UCL.
Actor Sylvester McCoy helps UCL teach patients about ankle arthritis.
Even a Time Lord suffers wear and tear over the years, just like the rest of us. After many years playing a huge variety of roles including Dr Who and a wizard in the recent worldwide hit film The Hobbit, actor Sylvester McCoy's past caught up with him: "As an actor I would tumble downstairs or fall out of windows for a laugh, not realising that years later I would suffer for it". However, he is not alone. In the UK more than 30,000 patients each year suffer from pain, stiffness and a reduced quality of life as a result of arthritis of the ankle. More...
Senior Promotions 2014
The Division is delighted to announce that four of its staff members have been successful in their applications for promotion in the 2014 Senior Promotions Process. More...
Clinical Research Workshop - Thursday 10th July 2014
Division held its first ever clinical research workshop,
aimed at existing or intended clinical academics who were seeking guidance on
the clinical fellowship application process.
MSc in Performing Arts Medicine - an interview with the BMJ
is Performing Arts Medicine?


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I didn't hear that, but just turned it on. Maine's not a bad compromise, in fact with our bullpen, all the starters should be on a short leash.
Just announced on ESPN radio he is gone for the first round!
ouch thats gotta hurt
I didn't hear that, but just turned it on. Maine's not a bad compromise, in fact with our bullpen, all the starters should be on a short leash.
I know the rook is good but can he hack it in the post season?
guys this is playoff baseball there are rest days all the time so our bullpend will get plenty of rest even if they have to pitch 4 innings a game.
Yep, it's so. Freaky luck for Orlando. We'll be alright with the rook.
you beat me to it
wow how fortunes turn for a guy like perez........the pirates minor league dog house to starting a playoff game.
You have to find out some time. If he's good he'll never have to ride another bus in the minors. He's already done more than anyone expected.Originally Posted by LI2OH
El duque is out for the division series can he come back on the roster and play in the NLCS
Is it confirmed that Perez is going to get to start a game ??Originally Posted by emslave
Not confirmed, but from the Mets site...Originally Posted by JetBidiI think we'll only see him in garbage time. JMO.Perez's presence on the roster and the Mets' shortage of starting pitchers makes a start by the erratic, 25-year-old former Pirates hurler a possibility. It is doubtful he will pitch in relief, because the club also opted to carry Royce Ring, a left-handed reliever
Thanks for the update Jumba...
Why are we carrying Ring ?? I don't know why, but just don't trust him.
The ticker on ESPN just said El Duque out for the postseason... (Although this series will be the entire postseason for the Mets)
Hopefully we won't get into any situations where we ask to much of him. Simply put, he's a reliever, Perez is not. He's used to warming up on short notice. If Royce scares you, you must have nightmares about Oliver.Originally Posted by JetBidi


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Puss in Boots Jumpstarts the Holiday Season
- Friday, October 28, 2011
Release Date: October 21, 2011 (3D/2D theaters and IMAX 3D)
Rating: PG (for some adventure action and mild rude humor)
Genre: Comedy, Animation, Family
Run Time: 90 min.
Director: Chris Miller
Actors: Voices of Antonio Banderas, Salma Hayek, Zach Galifianakis, Billy Bob Thornton, Amy Sedaris, Constance Marie, Guillermo del Toro
Quick: What was the best thing about the Shrek films? Maybe you liked the send-ups of classic fairy tales, or Mike Myers' voice as the title character. Maybe you loved Eddie Murphy's vocal performance as Donkey. Or maybe, if you're like me, you most enjoyed the way Antonio Banderas' voice brought zest to the character of Puss in Boots, a sword-wielding feline who could turn on a dime and evoke tender pity, dilating his pupils at will.
In Puss in Boots, the cat grabs the top spot in his own feature film, and the spinoff may be just the jumpstart that animated family films needed ahead of the holiday-movie season. Shrek Forever After, the previous Shrek film, and supposedly the last in that series, met with decent but far from overwhelming response in the summer of 2010, but earlier this year, Gnomeo & Juliet indicated that audiences still respond to familiar stories played with a fun twist. However, it was a subsequent 2011 release, Rango, that showed a way forward for animated family films, delivering a jolt of oddball storytelling mixed with dazzling visuals. Rango not only provided entertaining dialogue but referenced iconic scenery, camera angles and famous characters from classic films (Westerns in particular). Although the humor was too often well over the heads of youngsters, audiences of all ages responded to Rango, making it the choice of family filmgoers and cinephiles simultaneously. That's no easy feat.
With Puss in Boots, Dreamworks Animation serves notice that it, too, is hungry to bridge those two groups. In Puss, the fairy-tale fun is back and the 3D animation is a treat, filled with echoes of Spaghetti Westerns and Monument Valley-like vistas that are reminiscent of the great films of director John Ford.
Puss is living life as a misunderstood outlaw when he runs into his old pal Humpty Dumpty (Zach Galifianakis, The Hangover Part II), but there's bad blood between them from long ago. The two were, we learn, raised together in an orphanage, but they parted on bad terms.
Puss, beset by bitter feelings over a perceived betrayal by Humpty, spends his post-orphanage years working solo—until, that is, he meets Kitty Softpaws (Salma Hayek, Grown Ups), a clawless cat who insinuates herself into a Puss heist and helps to reunite Puss and Humpty. Kitty eggs Humpty and Puss on, encouraging them in a quest for golden eggs.
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text:
For decades, Russell and Nelda Wright have devoted six weeks out of the year to serve children at youth camp.
"Well, today we're having - looks like we're having ham sandwich," said Russell, 78, while putting vegetables in a slicer.
Forty years ago, Russell walked into the kitchen at White River Youth Camp for the very first time, and it didn't take long for his sweetheart to follow in his footsteps.
"She came back the next day and we've been back here ever since. We never stopped," he said.
But it wasn't always as easy as pie for him.
"I said, 'I don't know how to make sloppy joes! He said, 'I don't either. We're going to learn.' I said, 'Not me!' He said, 'Yeah, you are,'" Russell laughed.
But the pair says it's not just the good eats that keep them coming back.
"It's just part of our life. Every year, we come out here and look forward to it," said Nelda, 73.
Russell and Nelda feed about 600 campers each summer. That's about 24,000 hungry kids in their 40-year history. Although they may not remember every face that comes through the camp, the campers definitely remember theirs.
"The girl had a name tag on and I said, 'Jen-ni-fer.' And she said, 'Rus-sell Wright.' I ain't got a name tag on! She said, 'No but I pot washed with you at White River Youth Camp for five years,'" Russell said. "I didn't recognize her. She grew up on me. Yeah, they all grow up!"
Whether it's the hungry kids that keep them coming back, or the family-like atmosphere, Russell and Nelda are confident that White River Youth Camp is the Wright Place to be in summer.
"We just don't know life without White River," said Nelda.
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Hello guys x
I like to dress up as a peapod sometimes.
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The CatBat Princess
Posted Sun Aug 28th, 2011 11:14pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hello guys x
I like to dress up as a peapod sometimes.
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Posted Mon Sep 5th, 2011 6:31pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hello dear Peapod and everyone else. I wanted to come back after this little spell to tell you all I'm much better right now - not to gloat over those who are feeling terrible, but in the hope that they will believe things can change. I thought I would never be happy again and, furthermore, that I really didn't deserve to. It's been a very long road - or so it felt to me. The calendar tells me differently; the other day my care coordinator reminded me it was only six weeks ago that I felt frightened alone in my own flat.
I take my meds - 500mg of Depakote twice daily, and now have a little team of people to help and guide me. These are: my shrink, my care coordinator, my psychologists, the psychiatric nurses at the mental hospital where I am now beginning CBT courses in relaxation and self esteem, my GP, my advocate (these can help with debt issues that you may have incurred when you're 'on one' and loads of other stuff too), and my alcohol advisory lady (good news - they won't tell you to quit!) and my benefits advisor at the jobcentre...I think that's all of them. Without these kind, patient, humane and frequently good-looking people I would not be as strong as I am today. I am also lucky to have my lovely boyfriend, friends and family. Hopefully, soon, I'll be ready to start doing some voluntary work, which my care coordinator is gonig to help set me up with in a way that will be right for me.
There was a lot of waiting-to-feel-better. There were times I was frightened to even think I might be feeling better in case I jinxed it. Sleep is something I've really found is important. Trusting people is important too. I don't want to sound lecturey but a lot of things started to change when I really asked for more and more help from 'the system', which formerly I'd resented being a part of. They're good people - and if you don't like a certain professional get them changed for one you like and can relate to (most of mine are women).
It's only very recently that I've finally started to accept my bipolar and that's made a big difference too. Since the diagnosis six months ago, it's been constantly there, in my face, on my mind - something I thought had consumed who I was. But I'm still me. My lovely care coordinator always says, "We're not trying to erase you, your personality!" By 'we', she really means 'me'; I really let it define who I was. I talked about it constantly. I mourned 'the old me'. I was racked with guilt and shame. Now, finally, after much work, I feel like I'm in a healthier place sort of in the middle - I recognise this person that I am today, the me that is well, but also find it easier to forgive myself for the things that happened when I was ill. I'm not ashamed anymore - not when I'm being rational. I feel grateful that I know and not just gutted, cos I can avoid getting ill again where possible.
There are still bad days; I have not become a teetotal goody-goody who never buggers it all up by deciding to read all night or attend a lock-in at my local, and I still have a long long way to go. Sometimes I have to hide and put my fingers in my ears, or spend a whole day pretending I'm not having a panic attack (this is where the CBT is helping), or torture myself with horrid thoughts. But it is getting easier. It turns out I also have post-traumatic stress disorder - something I wouldn't have known if I hadn't asked for help.
I want to say to anyone reading this who is in the bad place, you are not a worthless shit who has ruined everyone's life. You DO have friends and they don't hate you. They love you. You haven't done the world's worst things, and the things you did, you did when you were ill. You weren't to blame. I know you won't believe it, really - when I was there this last time, the worst of my life, I saw a divide between 'everyone else's depression' and 'MY depression', which was incurable and deserved. But you will, I hope. Please don't hurt or kill yourself, my distant darling friend. Reading this forum helped me. Do anything that will help you. Don't beat yourself up or put yourself under pressure. I know it sounds impossible, but try a little bit every day. Every little triumph over 'the beast' will fill you with a little bit more confidence.
I hope this has been helpful and not too patronising. Good luck you sensitive, intelligent human beings xxx
PS Helpful links -
http://www.independentadvocacy.org/ - for when you've been silly with the credit cards
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/ - little online CBT courses recommended me by the hospital. They're good!
http://www.mookychick.co.uk - one for the ladies really but hours of entertainment in informative and empowering style
PPS Tony Lockhart, you are a brave man. My name is Samantha.
PPPS If I can shed light on any of the mental health team lark, send me a message.
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Posted Mon Sep 5th, 2011 6:52pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
PPPPS And for goodness' sake don't read ridiculous stuff on the internet about how 'bipolar people are selfish, my bipolar ex-girlfriend/boyfriend is a menace' etc etc. Unfortunately there is a lot of that bilge out there. DO NOT LOOK AT IT. It was written by knuckle-dragging wankers.
PPPPPS Love you Big Stevie xxx
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Posted Sat Oct 1st, 2011 2:02am Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hi there!
I'm a 22-year-old girl from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I suffered a psychotic break followed by a depressive episode last september. 12 months later, I suffered a manic episode almost at the same time. I had to be hospitalised 1 month and a half, and I'm on meds (Valproate, Clonazepam and Quetiapine).
After watching Stephen's documentary I felt so related and identified with the people interviewed. I hope this message board will help me cope a bit better with this emotional rollercoaster I'm in.
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Posted Tue Oct 4th, 2011 2:11pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hello Samantha (dorothy)
Apologies for not replying to your comment sooner, been a bit busy lately. Not too sure about the 'brave' bit, I think it's more a case of 'sod them all', I don't care what anyone says or thinks any more. I'm not necessarily happy with my condition, but I am at least comfortable with it now, as much as I can be. It is what it is and nothing I do is going to change that, not permanently anyhow.
I had a minor setback not long after posting my 'reintroduction' message here, I tried to come off the meds, not a good idea, I'm back on them again and better for it. It's that acceptance/rejection thing we all seem to suffer from.
Another thing happened after my 'reintroduction', within minutes of posting my real name on Facebook I received messages from my two sisters, whom I haven't spoken to for about ten years (my fault, not theirs) so I have a family again. Go figure.
The moral of this post, if there was one, is stick it out. Stay with the meds, bite the bullet and don't expect miracles.
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Posted Wed Oct 5th, 2011 11:44am Post subject: Introduce yourself
I'm Sarah and I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder two years ago.
I was 17 years old when I made my first suicide attempt, at the time I was diagnosed with clinical depression, it took 10 years, 20+ different medications and more doctors and psychiatrist than I care to count before the diagnosis of bipolar was reached.
I had mixed emotions on the diagnosis, to be honest my first thought was crap everyone is going to think I'm crazy but when I went home and researched the disorder it described me exactly and it was a relief because it gave me hope that perhaps there was medication out there that would give me a more 'stable' existence.
I am an IT professional and subconsciously I had got very used to waiting for the high to produce my best and most creative work and then grinning and bearing the lows as best I could, I was so used to this rhythm that once I was switched to Lithium and Quetiapine I felt flat and struggled to operate at the level I was used to. I took time off work for respite and spent time in hospital due to a suicide attempt, after learning of the diagnosis and due to the leave taken I was given the resign or we will initiate the firing process letter (On Christmas Eve, I kid you not) despite having received a good performance review that year. I felt devastated as my work was something I was incredibly proud of however it did give me the space to get treatment without having to worry about work, I am now a self employed consultant.
Even with medication I sometimes still have the lows and highs but they are far less severe, sometimes I miss the highs but I do like the stability. When I watched The secret life of a manic depressive I cried, out of relief that there were others out their like me, that they too could function in society and that someone else out there knows what it feels like to look completely healthy on the outside and be dying on the inside.
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Posted Mon Nov 14th, 2011 7:56am Post subject: Introduce yourself
Welcome Echo! Are there not laws that prohibit discrimination in the work place based on a medical condition where you live? Ugh! That pisses me off so bad! I am glad it seems to have worked out for the best in the long run being self employed you don't have to deal with that bullshit.
Browes around. There are alot of fun threads along with the helpful ones of course.
Marz XXX
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
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Posted Wed Nov 16th, 2011 6:03pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hi intro myself, God i never know what to write i feel like im suddenly in a hollywood style AA meeting.
Hi I have bipolar and im struggling to come to terms with this. My dad has bipolar as well as other mental illnesses and wasn't diagnosed till i was out of high school. So i have been there for his attempts at his life.
Im looking for hope i guess that im not alone in my experience.
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Posted Tue Nov 22nd, 2011 11:48pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hello all in Fry Land.
Um, well I'm not sure what to say - basically I'm pretty boring. I have severe depression/anxiety that often keeps me from doing everything I'd like to do with my life. Lately it's been worse than usual and I suppose I'm posting on here simply to connect with others that have mental illness.
Thank you for reading.
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Ailsa Cameron
Posted Wed Nov 30th, 2011 10:28am Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hi - I'm Ailsa and an old "friend" of Katy Sara. I've apparently been Bipolar most of my life but like many, was misdiagnosed and put on completely the wrong medication for years.
Even five suicide attempts didn't alert the medical profession to the fact that I might be more than just depressive.
A correct diagnosis 3 years ago saved my life. I'm now on Depakote (Sodium Divalproate) and stabilised.
The upside is that I write. My first novel is due for publication in January and I'm doing my best to resist being manic.
Glad to be here and looking forward to meeting others.
Being Bipolar isn't fun but it isn't the end of the world.
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Posted Sat Dec 17th, 2011 12:30am Post subject: Introduce yourself
I will just say that when i get nervous {more then i am at the moment} i get rather chatty and start to ramble quite a lot.
My name {really doesn't matter,i hate it} is Anna Borowski {common name really, there are at least 16 others on Facebook with my name and three with my face} and i was 19 when i was diagnosed with bi-polar manic depresiveness, but i believe i have had it my whole life really. Ive been hospitalized once, for three days. and feared going back ever since.
I cannot talk to anyone really about this for fear of ending up in a little white room with rubber walls drooling and starring at the ceiling. not even my father will believe this at all, so when i found this site earlier today, it was a great relief really. knowing i COULD talk to others about it.
there's a tight band of anxiety across my chest now, so i suppose i will leave this introduction at that before i bore everyone with my life story...
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Posted Sun Dec 18th, 2011 1:46am Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hello everyone.
I'm someone just getting a grasp on reality though granted, not a very firm grasp.
It's hard to talk about my life. It's a complex, painful affair and so is the illness which had been misdiagnosed, unproperly treated and ignored. If I were to think of all my wasted talents, all those dreams crushed to dust... I might say it has ruined my life. I might say I wish I'd been killed by my hand long ago. Still I say none of those things, at least not truly meaning it. I was young when I got ill, I can't remember happiness before but that doesn't mean I can't strive for it. Even in the darkest of pits the stars burn bright. It is true you may not hear them sing, you may not feel their rays touch your face with cool light but they are there waiting for you to rise again, to stand on true earth to smile once more. Course, when you're manic, you ARE the stars but let's not go there.
I just wanted to say thank you Stephen. You were actually the inDIRECT reason for someone going down to their GP and saying 'I think there is a problem'. You did good. I'm 19 so maybe there is still some sort of hope for me yet.
"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility."
Sigmund Freud
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Posted Tue Dec 20th, 2011 1:05am Post subject: Introduce yourself
Hello. I am Isaac and I live in South Louisiana. I am a fan of Stephen Fry. I like his documentaries, comedies and debates.
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Posted Tue Dec 20th, 2011 8:56pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
Reading all of your stories has humbled and inspired me to post after a short spell of procrastination.
I was diagnosed with depression at the age of 15 when it became apparent that there was more to it than just growing pains. I'm not bipolar as such, my diagnosis has been given as severe depression with anxiety. So close on 25 years I've been having depressive episodes and been through a variety of meds. My mother died young which I am sure had deep-rooted repercussions. Feelings of loss, loneliness and abandonment.
The last couple of years have been tough. Three different jobs, treated for blood poisoning and my sister-in-law dying of cancer. At the start of this year things seemed to pick up but due to a number of factors things came crashing down in June. I did my best to fight It but in July I ended up being hospitalised for the first time of my life. Was no doubt one of the scariest and upsetting things I've ever experienced. Since then I've returned to work, but life can be a real uphill struggle. It is reassuring to know from this forum that I am not alone.
People are often surprised when I tell them about my condition. I have a nice house, drive a nice car, job, wide circle of friends etc but inside I am a wreck. A voice in my head tells me what a useless individual I am, that I am rubbish at everything I do, that I don't deserve the elusive happiness that I (and I imagine a fair number of us here) are on the search for.
I often hide away from the world. I couldn't face going into work today so I haven't left the house. It can be really tricky connecting with the real world cant it? Maybe that's why I find it easy to talk here. Another irony is that I am involved in amdram and people say how they would be scared witless appearing on stage in front of 200 people. In my mind it isn't, being lost, alone and misunderstood is infitely more upsetting.
Currrently I am on 30mg Zispin and 2mg Diazepam "on occasion". Paying for my own CBT at the moment which is a bit of a stretch but I think its worth it. I still have dark could surrounding me but talking and reading other people's stories gives me hope.
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Posted Tue Jan 3rd, 2012 2:11pm Post subject: Introduce yourself
I have never been one for forums but I have some things I would like to discuss and hear opinions about. Although, I am feeling terribly embarrassed!
I have recently been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. My psychiatrist says that technically it is Bipolar I disorder - I have had severe mania and psychotic depression - however he does not like to classify, as he views mental illness as something that they do not fully understand the cause of and thus, in his opinion, it is out of the boundaries of classification and as such saying one has "bipolar disorder" is simply describing the symptoms and not the 'disease'.
Looking back I think it all started when I was about 7 with my first depressive episode. This is probably the only time that I was seriously suicidal. I have worked out that so far in my 23 years of life I exist on approximately a seven year cycle for both extreme depression and mania. Depression at 7, 14, 21. Mania starting a few years later and not quite as clockwork... well you get the picture... In between those extremes I have had more minor cycling though nothing that I believe affects me in too adverse a way.
I was diagnosed after coming down from a manic episode, and realising, for the first time (I feel so selfish!), that my behaviour affects the people I love. I spoke to my endocrinologist about it (I have type 1 diabetes), and he pointed out to me that what I described to him was mania and he referred me to a psychiatrist who diagnosed me. He wanted me to try lithium. However, I was near the end of completing a Master of Science and I did not want to change now that I was returning to normal. I am also terrified of getting fat (a side effect of years of dance training haha). And 5 injections a day is enough drugs for me. I struggle with the idea of preventative meds, especially when I am not rapid cycling. My psychiatrist respected my decision and I decided that once I completed my masters I would look into seeing a psychologist to work on day to day life stuff.
So, I have completed my Masters and I have been accepted for PhD candidature with a top scholarship. I am so excited. The only thing that could stop me now would be an extreme episode which had quite the effect on me during my Masters. Although even minor depressive episodes are a worry, I guess.
I promised myself that I would see a psychologist now. However, I'm scared. Terrified.
I have been to see psychologists before and before the end of the session I have known exactly how to get out of seeing them again. I had quite the traumatic childhood, but as you may have guessed, I have moved on from that and I don't want to be forced to bring it up.
I want to deal with the NOW. You know... tracking my moods, being organised, being sure of what is going on in my life... Stability! Should I even go see a psychologist? What should I say to them to be clear about how I feel. I don't want to offend them, but I want to be frank and clear.
Sorry this was such a long post... Thanks for reading.
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The Communities That Care Coalition (CTC) brings together youth, parents, schools, community agencies, and local governments to promote the health and well-being of young people in Franklin County and the North Quabbin region.
CTC is co-hosted by Community Action of the Franklin, Hampshire and North Quabbin Regions and the Partnership for Youth, a program of the Franklin Regional Council of Governments.
For a quick introduction to CTC, watch a 3-minute video about the coalition's work.
Communities That Care Coalition Co-Chair Kat Allen Presents at Summit at White House
On June 10th, Kat Allen represented the Communities That Care Coalition as one of several panelists presenting successful approaches in preventing substance abuse and promoting academic success in a day-long Policy Forum co-sponsored by the Office of National Drug Control Policy and the federal Department of Education.
And so exciting to be able to bring this work
to the attention of national-level decision-makers with the hopes that we can
influence national policy!" said Allen of the invitation.
The Coalition received high praise for it's efforts and outcomes from the country's current acting Drug Czar, Michael Botticelli, as well as from the Director of the Center for Substance Abuse Services, Fran Harding (pictured on Allen's right, above).
As a follow-up to the event, Allen (representing the Communities That Care Coalition) has been invited to present at the Trust for America's Health's first-ever National Forum on Hospitals, Health Systems & Population Health in October.
Coalition honors staff from District Attorney's Office
The Sara Cummings Leadership Award was presented to Jana McClure and the Office of District Attorney David Sullivan for their dedication to Prevention and Collaboration.
New Coordinating Council Members Elected
Also at the April 2014 Coalition meeting, several new member of the Coordinating Council were voted into office, including Barb Zaccheo of the Greenfield Recreation Commission and Corey Sanderson of Second Congregational Church, pictured below with Jessie Cooley of Big Brothers Big Sisters, a long-time member of the Council.
Newly Launched Collective Impact Forum Highlights Franklin County/North Quabbin Communities That Care Coalition!
Click here to be redirected the newly launched Collective Impact Forum that includes case studies and videos from successful Collective Impact initiatives around the world, including the Franklin County/North Quabbin Communities That Care Coalition!
Public Service Announcement by Shout Out!
Click here to view a fabulous new 1-minute Public Service Announcement created by local youth in Community Action Youth Program's Shout Out! group!! Hear what keeps these amazing young people Above The Influence!
Shout Out! Above the Influence
Communities That Care Coalition featured in new Stanford Social Innovation Review Article!
Our Communities That Care Coalition, and particularly the work of the Parent
Coalition Discusses Family Connections, Medical Marijuana, Brain Development at Arts Block Cafe on April 26.
On Friday, April 26, 2013, 56 representatives of local groups and agencies gathered at the Arts Block Cafe in Greenfield and participated in lively discussions about Family Connections, Medical Marijuana, and Brain Development.
The group also heard from Community Action Youth Programs' Youth VOICE and Shout Out! about their recent and impressive work, and from District Attorney Dave Sullivan about his accomplishments in the area of reducing the availability of Prescription Drugs through takeback days and permanent dropoff boxes.
Vickie Rowe, School Nurse at Pionner Valley Regional School, was presented with the 2013 Sara Cummings Coalition Leadership Award for her hard work, dedication, and leadership over the last ten years. Vickie is a founding member of the Regional School Health Task Force, has served on the Coordinating Council, and has been active on the CHANGE Team. She is an incredible asset to the coalition, to her school district, and to the community! Thank you and congratulations Vickie!!
2012 Teen Health Survey Data Released at Full Coalition Meeting October 12.
The latest semi-annual meeting of the Communities That Care Coalition took place on Friday, October 12, 2012 at the John W. Olver Transit Center in Greenfield. 70 community members participated in the meeting. The 2012 Teen Health Survey Results were released and the results are FANTASTIC!
Check the survey page for more information on survey findings. And listen here for an interview of Coalition Co-Coordinator Kat Allen by WHAI's Jay Fidanza.
Congratulations to Donna Woodcock, 2012 Mike Fritz Community-Builder Award Recipient
Donna Woodcock, Principal at Greenfield High School, is an advocate and leader for youth health and well-being in her district. Donna has been an important support as the Communities That Care Coalition mentored the Greenfield Safe Schools Smart Schools Coalition (4SC) from 2010 to 2012.
Congratulations to Ann Hamilton, 2012 Sara Cummings Coalition Leadership Award Recipient
Ann Hamilton of the Franklin County Chamber of Commerce has been a strong advocate for the Communities that Care Coalition's work in the business community and beyond since 2002. Ann is a true leader in helping to facilitate collaborations between local businesses, government and the Coalition. We were pleased to present Ann the 2012 Sara Cummings Award for Coalition Leadership.
Communities That Care Coalition Featured in Stanford Social Innovation Review
Channeling Change" to read the article.
This article is a follow-up to another article the authors published in SSIR that made a big splash – it had multiple citations in the New York Times, the White House took interest, and it has remained in the top 3 downloads on SSIR for over a year… I had the article forwarded to me from 3 different sources and thought it was absolutely fabulous! This original article is called "Collective Impact" and it coined this term to refer to "the commitment of a group of important actors from different sectors to a common agenda for solving a specific social problem". The article explains how collective impact is more than collaboration, that it involves shared goals, shared measurement, and a backbone organization to coordinate the activities of the many agencies involved. Please click "Collective Impact" to find this original article and accompanying posts.
We could not be more excited about this coverage and the article's ringing endorcement of the coalition's work - all due to the fantastic collaboration of so many wonderful and committed partners. Thank you to all of you for your hard work and dedication, and for the commitment to community that it takes to make collective impact work!
Kat & Lev
p.s. To read a recent blog post about our Parent Education Workgroup's efforts click here, and to see a 2-minute video about Collective Impact, please click here!
What Is Collective Impact?
Coalition's CHANGE Team conducts community assessment
The Communities That Care Coalition is undertaking a Healthy Youth Initiative focused on improving youth nutrition and physical activity through community-level environmental change. CTC's "CHANGE Team" is using the Center for Disease Control's Community Health Assessment aNd Group Evaluation (CHANGE) Tool to gather information from the community and create a Community Action Plan for improving youth nutrition and physical activity through policy and systems change. The team has been meeting monthly in 2012, and members have interviewed more than 50 community leaders to inform the community assessment. Community Action Youth Program's Youth Voice group has joined forces with the CHANGE Team in gathering information, and over the summer conducted four focus groups and 21 interviews with community members, and received 136 responses to a survey they created.


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Woodworker's Journal
In the last eZine, Rob asked for your ideas for quick gifts for that other gift-giving season: the one filled with weddings, graduations, and more.
RIKON Power Tools sees the turn away from woodworking curriculums as a call to action. It has adopted a multi-pronged approach to tool donations in support of woodworking education.
How Much Gap Should I Leave Around Cabinet Doors?
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Tips for Keeping Polyurethane Glue Fresh?
Are you a woodturner? Have your thoughts ever turned to fame and/or fortune? If they have, well you are in luck.
Paul Jones's shop is a 20 x 20 garage, packed with tools like a table saw, band saw, drill press, drum sander, flap sander and dust collectors, all "20 feet away from northern Minnesota hardwoods. "If you didn't look close, you would think it was a furniture shop," he said.
INCRA's new micro-adjust I-Box Box Joint Jig Designed by Woodworker's Journal Reader.
Although the "innovative solution to a strange problem" which began this thread dealt more with construction than with woodworking -- and the original poster seems to have quite a few of his own innovations to share -- the ideas are, indeed, intriguing. What about you, eZine readers?


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The frequency of a prenatal diagnosis of cleft lip or palate is increasing with the advent of more sensitive ultrasound technology.
We offer a three-part prenatal counseling visit to give you information about your infant's diagnosis. Without this visit, you could be given outdated or incorrect information that causes unnecessary worry.
During the visit, you will meet with a craniofacial team pediatrician, a social worker and a nurse.
The pediatrician reviews the diagnosis and the limits of ultrasound in detecting the anatomical details of the cleft, as well as the genetic and environmental theories of the causes of clefting.
Finally, the pediatrician outlines the treatment plan and explains the care that is needed throughout childhood.
The social worker talks with you about the psychosocial and emotional needs you may have as you prepare for the birth.
The nurse teaches you about changes in feeding technique that may be required with a cleft and provides you with special bottles. Infants whose parents are prepared with this feeding information have an increased chance to gain weight and grow normally.
Last, the nurse explains how to set up the first clinic visit once your baby is born.
The center has offered prenatal counseling since 1997, and 50 to 70 newborns with cleft lip or palate are seen each year. Only a few of these newborns are diagnosed before birth, but the number is rising.
Type the first or last name you are searching for or select a specialty.
Doctor or Researcher Name:
Seattle Children's provides healthcare without regard to race, color, religion (creed), sex, gender identity or expression, sexual orientation, national origin (ancestry) or disability. Financial assistance for medically necessary services is based on family income and hospital resources and is provided to children under age 21 whose primary residence is in Washington, Alaska, Montana or Idaho.
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Board Meeting Days and Times
The regular monthly meeting of the Board of Trustees of the DeKalb Sanitary District for the Fiscal Year 2014-2015 is to be held in the office of the District at 303 Hollister Avenue, DeKalb, Illinois at noon on the following date:
Wednesday, September 17, 2014
For current DSD Board of Trustee Information and upcoming meetings, past DSD Board Meeting Agendas or Minutes click below:
An opportunity for Public Input is included in each month's agenda, and citizens are encouraged to attend the Board Meetings to give input or to write to the Board of Trustees in care of the DeKalb Sanitary District at P.O. Box 624, DeKalb, Illinois 60115.
Smoke Testing Program
July 2014
Contact Information: RJN, 630-682-4700, DeKalb Sanitary District, 815-758-3513
The DeKalb Sanitary District is conducting a program to identify locations where storm water is entering the sanitary sewer system. The study, being performed by the engineering firm RJN Group, Inc. of Wheaton, Illinois, includes smoke testing of the sanitary sewers in the area indicated on this Map.
Smoke testing is a simple means of locating openings in the sewer system that allow surface rainwater runoff to enter the sanitary sewers. Air combined with non-toxic smoke is forced into the sewer lines to disclose the location of connections and leaks. Smoke may appear where there are defects in the main sewer line or laterals (connection between the main line and a building) or where there are other connections to the sewer system such as roof drains, patio drains, and footing drains.
Smoke should not enter buildings unless there is defective plumbing or dried-up drain traps. To help prevent smoke from entering your home, please pour water into infrequently used sinks, showers and floor drains. You should always feel free to call 911 in an emergency. However, if you believe smoke is entering your home from smoke testing, please contact a member of the RJN field crew if they are still on your street. If the RJN field crew is no longer in the area you may contact RJN Groups office at 630-682-4700.
The smoke is non-toxic, creates no fire hazard, leaves no residue, dissipates quickly, and is harmless. However, if someone in your home has respiratory problems, you may wish to take extra precautions on your own, such as leaving your home until the smoke testing is completed.The smoke testing will be started in mid-late July and is anticipated to be completed by mid-August. Additional notification will be provided by door hanger cards 24 - 72 hours before the smoke testing is to start in your area and signs will be posted at highly visible intersections when the crews are testing. Additional information on smoke testing can be found on the RJN Website or to view a map of the Smoke test area click Map. If you have questions please call Karol Giokas at RJN at (630) 682-4700 x386 or Mike Holland at the DeKalb Sanitary District at (815) 758-3513.
FY 2014/15 Tentative Budget
Notice is hereby given by the DeKalb Sanitary District, in the County of DeKalb and State of Illinois, that a Tentative Budget and Appropriation Ordinance for said Sanitary District for the fiscal year beginning May 1, 2014 and ending April 30, 2015 is available here and will also be available for public inspection during normal business hours at the office of the Wastewater Treatment Plant on 303 Hollister Avenue, DeKalb, Illinois, in said District.
Notice is further given hereby that a public hearing on said Budget and Appropriation Ordinance will be held at 1 p.m. on the 25th day of June, 2014, at the office of the Sanitary District, and final action on the ordinance will be taken by the Board of Trustees at said meeting.
Dated this 23rd day of May 2014.
DENNIS J. COLLINS, President Board of Trustees DeKalb Sanitary District
DSD announces the "Sump Pump & Residential Inspection Program" beginning in '2014'
The DeKalb Sanitary District will begin the "Sump Pump & Residential Inspection Program" in 2014 which will help in the reduction of Infiltration/Inflow in the Collection System.
For more information regarding your appointment click More Info:
To go straight to the Appointment Scheduler page click below:


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Easy and very simple. I Love It!
Beef Tenderloin Steaks with Red Wine-Mushroom Sauce
Photo: Oxmoor House
Srring the mushrooms constantly helps release their juices, allowing them to caramelize quickly in this beef tenderloin steak recipe with a red wine-mushroom sauce. Complete the meal with Wedge Salad with Sour Cream-Mustard Seed Dressing or roasted potatoes.
Yield: 4 servings (serving size: 1 steak and 1/4 cup sauce)
Recipe from
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Recipe Time
Cook Time:
Prep Time:
Nutritional Information
Amount per serving
- Calories: 244
- Calories from fat: 46%
- Fat: 13g
- Saturated fat: 6g
- Monounsaturated fat: 4g
- Polyunsaturated fat: 0.9g
- Protein: 23.3g
- Carbohydrate: 3.8g
- Fiber: 0.9g
- Cholesterol: 74mg
- Iron: 1.9mg
- Sodium: 235mg
- Calcium: 24mg
- 4 (4-ounce) beef tenderloin steaks, trimmed (about 1/2 inch thick)
- 1/4 teaspoon salt
- 1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
- Butter-flavored cooking spray
- 1 (8-ounce) package presliced baby portobello mushrooms
- 1 cup dry red wine
- 2 tablespoons butter
- 1 teaspoon minced fresh rosemary
- 1. Heat a large nonstick skillet over medium-high heat. Sprinkle steaks with salt and pepper; coat with cooking spray. Add steaks to pan; cook 3 minutes on each side or until desired degree of doneness. Transfer steaks to a serving platter; keep warm.
- 2. Add mushrooms to pan. Coat mushrooms with cooking spray; sauté 3 minutes or until browned. Stir in wine, scraping pan to loosen browned bits. Cook until liquid almost evaporates. Remove pan from heat; add butter and rosemary, stirring until butter melts. Pour sauce over steaks.
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Beef Tenderloin Steaks with Red Wine-Mushroom Sauce Recipe at a Glance
- COURSE: Main Dishes
- CONVENIENCE: Quick/Easy
- MAIN INGREDIENT: Beef
- PUBLICATION: Oxmoor House
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