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Help! Smoking Dilemma Dividing the
Condo Community
Good Questions
Q: I am a smoker and am pretty happy that we have a lovely patio in our new condo to enjoy a ciggy on at night or over some wine when friends come visit. A short while ago I was told by an unassuming neighbor in our other building (there are three in total) that there was a problem with a homeowner smoking on their balcony and a prickly neighbor four units away wrote a scathing letter to the HOA that resulted in a cease and desist notice being sent to the offending smoker.
Needless to say, the complaining owner later profusely apologized that the HOA had escalated the whole thing and they made up. The smoker is too terrified to light up in the balcony regardless. Personally, I would not have accepted an overblown threat over a pack of Marlboros, but now it seems that I might be finding myself in a similar situation. Our next-door neighbors have passively made remarks to some other neighbors about smoke wafting into their unit.
As far as it stands right now, smoking is indeed permitted on each unit's balcony, but of course if something is labeled a nuisance, it's a free pass to lay the much dreaded HOA smackdown. I should point out that I have not heard from these neighbors directly.
Personally, I am not a complainer and I realize that whether one owns or is renting, living around other people involves various nuisances. I can honestly say that since living in the East Bay I have lived around neighbors that smoked cigarettes or even pot, had loud children or infants, and obviously dogs.
Our neighbors, for instance, have a loud dog that barks at all hours of the day or night. We were awoken by the dog the other night at 3 am, and it did not stop for two hours. I understand that dogs bark and if I tolerate noises and such from other people, it's hard to believe that my cigarette really creates that much of a tragedy in their lives. Do you have any suggestions for dealing with complaining neighbors? Am I totally in the wrong here?
Sent by Sandy
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165 Comments
" it's hard to believe that my cigarette really creates that much of a tragedy in their lives."
Cigarette smoke is a health hazard and is absolutely a problem if your neighbors can smell it. The dogs barking in the middle of the night is also unacceptable. Neither is a simple "nuisance", and IMO both are worth complaining about.
My dad, a longtime smoker, died from complications due to hear disease and lung cancer. And I hate cigarette smoke. So I'm understandably biased against it.
However, you also have the right to enjoy your property and smoking is legal. If the neighboring units only have windows that are near your balcony, then I suppose your smoking out there means they can't have access to fresh air without also being exposed to (very small amounts of) second hand smoke. If you sit outside and smoke for hours on end, that would be annoying and starts to impair their ability to enjoy their home.
But if you are popping outside for 1-2 cigarettes at a time, taking 15-30 min, I don't see this as an unbearable issue. And like you say, you tolerate their dogs barking and kids playing. There are more studies about the health hazards of second hand smoke than about chronic noise-induced stress-related conditions - but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Any chance your balcony has an outlet on it, and could you plug in a small fan to disperse the smoke (if it becomes an issue)? That would show you are taking their concerns into account while preserving your very reasonable desire to enjoy your home.
I agree. I would absolutely hate having to sit in someone's second-hand smoke and probably wouldn't use my balcony if that was the case, which would be unfair. It's probably not as disgusting if you're a smoker. Anything you do that affects someone else's life when living in an apartment or condo, whether it's second-hand smoke, or a barking dog in the middle of the night, is going to be an annoyance. At least a barking dog isn't a health hazard.
I'm not a smoker, but my neighbor is. We share a deck/balcony area where he smokes every evening after work. When inside, we can't smell the smoke and even if my family is outside while he is smoking, it doesn't bother me. But, I think if smoke is wafting into someone else's unit, this is a valid health complaint. The barking dog is also not acceptable. It sounds as if a friendly discussion over a cup of coffee is in order.
Smoking is a vice that affects not just the smoker but everyone around him or her.
As noted by Scuttled Cuttle, smoke is a health hazard. Asthma attacks can be triggered by second hand smoke, and one can get lung cancer from second hand smoke.
It is also a nuisance, because once the smell of cigarette smoke gets into a home, particularly fabric and upholstery, it is very hard to get it out. For those not accustomed to smoking or living with a smoker, the scent is noticeable.
And dog-lover though I am, I too would complain about a dog regularly barking in the middle of the night. Lack of good sleep is also a health hazard.
It's your right to smoke on your own balcony. Tell them to put a box fan in the window, and it won't waft up. They bought a condo with other people in it. Other people smoke. If they can't handle having living people around, they should have bought five acres in a rural area. Also, barking dogs are the absolute worst, I feel for you.
duh ... "heart disease" not "hear disease" Even spell-check wouldn't help me on that one.
I thing Sandy, that you're right to smoke at your place. People perhaps can smell the tobacco - as curry, or fryed fish- but it doesn't mean that its a health hazard or that you're menacing their health. I'll give up smoking if everybody gives up cars, rises very polite children and muted dogs.
Barring severe allergies to cigarette smoke, your smoke is no more a hazard than sitting in rush hour traffic or general city life. People fixate on cigarettes because it's much easier than attacking car companies or electric companies.
That said, if it's causing a perceived problem they will go to the HOA before you seeing as they passive aggressively told our neighbors about the issue in the secret hope word would find it's way down the grapevine. Sadly, going to neighbors first is a dying courtesy. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. It will make you miserable. Check your HOA policies and see if they have any legal standing to ask you to stop mocking on your balcony. Most times they don't.
I think it is extreme to complain about you smoking outside and I question whether the smoke would infiltrate next door in those circumstances, but perhaps you could set up a fan outside directing airflow away from the neighbor's balcony? Personally I would be much more concerned about that poor dog than a faint whiff of very dilute smoke. As you are not breaking condo rules I wouldn't worry, but I would try the fan as a courtesy.
It would be unacceptable for anyone who is pregnant, with babies or children, or asthma not to complain about cigarette smoke smells in their unit.
I do think this is similar to neat people and messy people living together. A neat person is going to be bothered by a messy person's mess, but a messy person thinks everything is perfectly fine. It's a matter of one person's lifestyle intruding on another's.
The best answer is the one that makes everyone happy. Suggest if you have an electrical outlet on or near your balcony, you purchase a small air purifier (like the Ionic Breeze models you see advertised) and place that on your balcony and/or use it when smoking indoors too. They work really well, and will protect your desire to smoke and address your neighbor's concerns. Your non-smoking guests will love it too.
Yes, cigarette smoke is a health hazard but NO it is NOT absolutely a problem if your neighbors can smell it. The neighbors live in a condo, not in their own home where they have the right to control everything around them. As a former smoker (a pack per day habit for 19 years and I've been smoke free now for 16 months) I can say this quite sincerely...the neighbors need to shut it about the smokers on their balcony. Smokers have rights too. They already go outside, what more do you want? I am so sick of hearing the non-smokers complain about this issue. I can smell someone smoking across a parking lot, yes, it stinks but I don't own the air and I certainly have no right telling someone else how to live. If it bothers the neighbors so much, do as someone suggested, put a fan up to blow the air in the other direction. It's the neighbors that need to find a solution to deal with the smokers, not the other way around.
You need to quite smoking stat! How can you even compare smoking to kids?
As someone who has had to deal with the horrible effects of smoking (both my grandfather's and my father died from cancer from smoking and I have life-long asthma partly due to the fact that I was around smoke as a child), I can tell you that not only is it bad for you, your second hand smoke is not just a nuisance, but a health issue for those around you.
For one year I had three smokers living above me. Since I believe their landlord did not allow them to smoke in their apartment, they would smoke right outside the front door. They would throw cigarette butts into the mulch (a fire hazard) and when they were told to stop doing that they kept a bottle on the front porch (unsightly). The worst was when I was going in and out of the building with my one year old son. I told them to their face multiple times to stop because I did not want to have my child breath their smoke, but they persisted. Suffice it to say that enough complaints from owners in the building caused the landlord to not renew their lease.
My next door neighbor is a smoker, but a very courteous one. He does not smoke in the unit, and walks down the street or to the parking lot when he does smoke. He is always considerate about not smoking around my son. Although I wish everyone would quite smoking for their and everyone else's good, if you can't quite, at least be considerate like my neighbor.
Self determination no longer exists. Anybody, other than you, knows how to conduct your life better than you do.
basically anything that effects another person's quality of life is a problem, If every time I went outside to enjoy some fresh air I had to smell my neighbors smoke I would complain, but if it was just an occasional problem I would let it go. The same goes for other things like crying children or barking dogs. I think most rational adults know that you have to give up some personal freedoms to live in a communal setting like a condo. If something happens occasionally let it go but if it becomes a constant nuisance that disrupts your life on a regular basis then you must speak up.
Smoking is disgusting. You should quit. It's pervasive and offends the air, your clothes and seeps through walls - so you are offending and endangering people in the general vicinity. And just having had two relatives die from lung cancer in the past year, I just don't think it's a harmless habit that's just about you.
" I'll give up smoking if everybody gives up cars, rises very polite children"
while i don't mind the occasional smell of smoke from a cigarette, i can see someone not being able to open their window for fresh air without smoke wafting into their house frustrating. comparing smoking to driving cars is a bit off as well. while emissions are unfortunate and preferably avoided, they are presently a necessity in most areas of the US. riding my bike to work and dropping my kid off at school 10 miles away on a two lane road with no bike lane in the dark isn't happening. smoking cigarettes, while enjoyable on the other hand is unnecessary.
and i guess you consider polite children those who are seen and not heard. why don't we just pop some meds in them and sit them down in front of the tv so they can become perfectly still, silent, and mindless.
Owning a car and using it is also a very big health hazard, but people usually decide not to see it that way. A charcoal barbecue is no better than a cigarette.
Be real, documente yourself and discuss of ALL those issues with people around you. You might find out that life is quite lethal.
Actually, smoking is not a right, nor does it come with assumed rights. A police officer, for example, can by law make a person put out their cigarette, because it's a work hazard for the officer. Children under 12 cannot be in a vehicle with a smoking person. This isn't about smell. It's about health.
It's too bad the polite question asker didn't realize beforehand the he/she would get dumped on so much by all the 'sky is falling, delicate doilies' here. Yes, smoking is not a good habit, yes, it's a health hazard but it's not like being near a high level of radioactivity like some here imagine. No, I don't smoke; one parent did, some relatives & do; I still enjoy their company & don't complain about their smoking (& they're always outside if they do).
LW seems to be fairly considerate & not chain smoking. Until the HOA formally disallows smoking on one's own balcony (renter or owner in this case?) ignore the 'not close proximity' busybodies and enjoy your wine and cig. But, also see about an early NYears resolution to quit starting now. Good Luck.
Sandy, major points to you for even being concerned about it. As someone pointed out, smokers tend to be very inconsiderate, but you don't come across that way. Thank you.
Since we don't know the totality of your situation, it's hard to be specific. There are some people who think that they should never have to even catch a whiff of cigarette smoke in their entire lives, and if they do, they're ready to go to the mat over it. Those types are unrealistic, oversensitive people just looking to exert control over someone else. And if that kind of thing really bothers them so much, they really should move to a cabin in the wilderness, not live in a big city.
If the current rules of the HOA are that you can light up on your balcony, a change in that policy should be subject to how rules change under the HOA agreement. I think labeling smoking as a nuisance is weasling out of addressing it specifically, which it should be.
Loss of sleep from barking dogs is also a health hazard. But pet issues are too often treated with kid gloves, as if you were messing with someone's child. Some (please note the use of the word some) pet owners are as oversensitive as the complainers. Dogs bark, and that should be tolerated within reason. It is not reasonable to have to listen to a dog bark (or howl) all night. If a person can't keep the dog quiet, they shouldn't have the pet.
I'm not a smoker-- never have been. Both my mom and father-in-law had smoking-related health issues, but I do support a person's right to smoke (I don't think it's a good idea, but it is legal). And my allergies prevent me from having any pet but a fish (I'd love to have a dog).
Sandy, you seem like a reasonable person. It might cost you a little bit of $, but take the high road. Do what you can to limit the travel of your cigarette smoke, but don't cower before emotional bullies, either.
This is a tough one. Yes, you do have a right to smoke cigarettes outside. However, you should know (and it sounds like you now do) that it is both a health hazard and an incredible nuisance to your non-smoking neighbors. I live in a townhome where my bedroom windows are directly above the sidewalk, and my back patio touches my neighbors. I am a non-smoker, and my neighbor is a smoker. She and her son both smoke cigarettes throughout the day on the back patio, as well as out front. Yes, it is her right to smoke cigarettes, but it impacts MY every day life because I either have to close all of my windows in the nice weather or deal with the constant smell of cigarette smoke in my house. For me, this is a very frustrating situation that I am unsure of how to deal with it. I think the best thing you can do is to be conscious of it, and how it might affect your neighbors. Someone suggested a smokeless ashtray - using that might help. Good luck!
smoke inside. complain about the barking dogs, if they bother you. cigarette smoke is disgusting. if you absolutely must satisfy your narcotic addiction, do so inside and make sure you do not bother anyone else.
I'm currently dealing with this problem from the other side and am not sure how to deal with it appropriately. Generally, I don't care if people smoke and am very reticent to complain about someone smoking on their own property. However, I think it's inappropriate to compare cigarette smoke to a dog barking or someone cooking a curry. It really is an offensive smell and an irritant that has a detrimental impact upon health. I live in a series of terraced houses (townhouses) in the UK. My new next door neighbour smokes in his back yard (both of the nicotine and marijuana variety). I recognise that he's on his property but these are very small spaces and he's only a few feet from my bedroom window. I can smell the cigarettes just walking up the stairs towards my bedroom. And the bedroom reeks of cigarettes when my husband and I go to bed at night. It's unpleasant and, more so, it's irritating my husbands asthma.
I get that smoking is your right and all, but it's not just your neighbours being fussy if they complain. It's a health hazard and an physical irritant. Not really comparable to a dog barking or food smells.
I find it weird that smokers don't like to just smoke in their own house. If you don't like your house smelling like smoke than maybe you should stop smoking...
Sandy, it sounds like you are a considerate neighbor who understands what it's like to live around other people. There needs to be some give & take on all parts.
I don't think you're doing anything wrong by smoking on your porch, I feel bad for you that you are vilified for choosing to smoke. Good luck to you and your neighbors in resolving any tensions.
If you a smoker, you must be smoking on your patio pretty regularly, not just "a ciggy on at night or over some wine when friends come visit". As a former smoker of 10+ years that has been smoke free for 8 weeks (yay!), I can identify with both sides; yours and your neighbor's. However, as a new non-smoker, I would be upset having to smell someone else's cigarette smoke constantly in my home. It's not only inconsiderate but it's hazardous to your neighbor's health. Walk down the street and smoke or smoke in your own home. Don't subject the neighbors to constant cigarette smoke. If I were a neighbor, I wouldn't be happy, especially if I were pregnant or had children. It's so nice when your home smells fresh and clean and nasty when it smells like ciggies. Sure you have the right to smoke on your own patio as much as you want, but should you?
If you *are* a smoker
Sandy, why do you smoke outside? Is it because you don't want the smell in your house? If that's the case, and your neighbours are smelling it in theirs, you are just putting your bad habit onto them to deal with.
Yes, you have the right to smoke and I think it's best done outside. But as others have suggested, you may want to make some efforts to mitigate the effects on your neighbours, such as getting a fan and blowing it away from the building.
And cigarettes do create tragedies in peoples lives. While your second-hand smoke might not kill someone, it can be a reminder of loved ones lost. Apparently nearly 50,000 people die every year in the US from second-hand smoke exposure alone.
My suggestion for "dealing with complaining neighbours" is to actually deal with them, and work with them to come to a reasonable solution for both you and them. Try your best and don't think that it's their problem, because it's yours...
As someone with a severe allergy to cigarette smoke, I can tell you that smoke wafting into neighbors' homes can be a large problem. I once lived in an apartment next to a smoker who had zero concern for anyone around him. I spent an unhappy year there before my lease was up and I could move.
If you approach your neighbors and suggest that you all sit down to discuss the problem and possible ways to mitigate it, you're going to generate a lot of good will. I certainly would have appreciated such a gesture from my former neighbor.
I'm with BruceS63 here - It's not illegal for you to use your home - outdoor areas included - in legal ways as you do. However, as an asthmatic, having someone's cigarette smoke entering my home would make my life pretty miserable. I think you should go and talk to your neighbors preemptively, ask if your smoking bothers them and if they say yes, work out some solution like a smokeless ashtray / fan ideas / not chain smoking when their windows are open, things the other ATers suggested to ensure they know you're trying to be considerate. Mention the dog while you're at it - that's not ok either.
Living in urban areas requires tolerance and consideration on both sides but I applaud you for being considerate enough to try and limit your impact on others.
You are entitled to do whatever you please in your space. It's up to you whether you want to create goodwill among your neighbors. I can tell you it is a lot easier to have pleasant neighbors than to have nasty ones - no doubt.
Finally, I have to say I'm a bit sick of comments in reference to children: "I have lived around neighbors that smoked cigarettes or even pot, had loud children or infants, and obviously dogs."
Children are nothing like dogs. They are human-beings, not some outside species invited to live in someone's home. All of us used to be a children. Rude children are just as annoying as rude adults - but there is nothing "special" about them.
Does everyone here really not think the poster knows smoking is unhealthy? I don't think I've ever seen such a stuck up, righteous thread as this one. Cut the poster a break already. I'm sure you've got some vices of your own.
There is pretty famous French Canadian expression that roughly translates to 'One's freedom ends where another's begin'. If your 'freedom' is prohibiting others from their 'freedom' there is a problem. In this case, your right to smoke could prevent others' right to not smoke. Your second hand smoke is forcing them to actually smoke... On the other hand, their right not smoke is prohibiting your right to smoke.
The only solution is dialogue. Speak to each other. Perhaps there is a friendly compromise possible.
The smell of cigarette smoke makes me physically ill, so I might be biased in this case -- but I'll say that second-hand smoke can indeed cause a "tragedy" or at least health and wellbeing issues for your neighbors.
As most everyone else has suggested, taking proactive steps to invest in a smokeless ashtray or other ways to mitigate the smoke would be advisable, as would sitting down with your immediate neighbors to come to an understanding.
It's only when people feel like they're helpless to change a situation that they'll complain to authorities. If everyone has previously sat down and come to a mutually favorable conclusion, it's much less likely anyone will complain to the HOA.
I agree with Mandabear. As a former long-term, heavy smoker (3-4 packs a day for 35+ years), I have a problem with most of these posts. Lucky for me, I live in a single family home in the country and don't have this problem. To the poster: best of luck and I hope your HOA doesn't pass a really stupid rule. If you buy your own home/condo, you should be able to smoke inside or out. As for smokers being inconsiderate: yes, some are but outdoor smoking should be allowed anywhere.
I used to be a smoker, but I was always very considerate about where I did it. For instance, I would never light up around children, on restaurant patios where people were eating, in confined spaces, etc... it's just rude.
I wouldn't have a problem with a neighbor who smoked occasionally, but I like to open my windows and let in the fresh air... I shouldn't be subjected to the smell of smoke on a daily basis. Just be considerate.
I am not a smoker...I have dabbled with a cigar or two in my life and honestly, to me,it was quite relaxing- I'm a girl.
Though I understand that cigars/cigarettes may relax YOU and it's YOUR place/balcony, I get it...but if they (the condos) are as close as you are describing I would have to side with your neighbor. They are the most unpleasant smelling and remember, THEY, your neighbors, are relaxing too.
Smokers don't seem to get it. You're free to continue your disgusting habit. But when smoke starts entering your neighbor's home and lungs, then you are infringing on their right to clean, healthy air. Would you want your neighbor to play music all through the night? Would you want them to run a generator on their patio and have the carbon monoxide enter your home? Would you want you want your neighbor to take a shit on his patio and have that smell waft into your condo? I doubt it. Be reasonable, and smoke where it won't affect others.
Smoke inside. I note that many smokers don't smoke in their own homes but have no qualms about smoking on balconies, porches, patios, etc while their smoke invades the homes of others. Smoker don't want smoke in their homes, and guess what, neither do nonsmokers.
Barking dogs may violate the noise ordinances but they are not a threat to any one's health. Call the HOA, landlord, the police or even animal control if dogs are barking for hours on end.
There were a couple folks questioning if smoke could really travel that far outside. I have to share that I bought my first home that is NOT connected to my neighbors home. There is actually enough room to fit a garage and a tree between our homes. However, they sit on their back porch and smoke. The WHOLE family smokes. One of these folks even has lung cancer and still smokes. The smoke nearly ALWAYS (unless we get lucky with wind direction) travels into our home. We now have to keep the windows to our office, bathroom, nursery, pantry and master bedroom closed especially on a beautiful summer day or night because they are surely outside...smoking the whole time. Next time I buy a home I hope it's in the woods!
Sandy, I'm sorry that so many of the replies here have been excessively harsh. I would just like to add that as someone who is sensitive to cigarette smoke, the smell of it can affect people in ways you can't even imagine. If it wafted into my home, it would make my home absolutely unlivable for me. I can tell you try to be a good neighbor and that from your perspective a little cigarette smoke isn't such a big deal, but for someone like me, your cigarette would be a deal breaker. You may be dealing with neighbors who feel the same way. I wish you all good luck in coming to a workable solution!
Both of my parents were heavy smokers most of their lives and died from smoking related heart disease and COPD. I have asthma and allergies as a result of growing up in a smoke filled home. When I'm around smoke I get a headache and cough uncontrollably. My neighbor below me in my apartment building is a chain smoker and smokes on his porch. I'm not able to use my balcony and the smoke also comes in the windows and fills my apartment. I've tried to deal with it by using a box fan in my patio door but it doesn't really help. So I've had to keep my windows closed and use AC when it is nice outside. I didn't talk to my neighbor about it because I didn't think it would solve anything and I'm sure my own behaviors must impact him in other ways. But his smoking sure impacted me. One day I was out on my balcony filling the bird feeders when the smoke can wafting up and I started coughing. Out of frustration I said to my neighbor below "is there any way you could not smoke on your balcony? I get pretty bad asthma attacks when I'm around smoke." He simply said yes and I told him how much I would appreciate that. And he's been very considerate about it since then.
So if you have a neighbor who complains about your smoking either directly or indirectly, I would try to understand their point of view and see if there could be a simple solution that would work for you both. The barking dogs might be tougher, but a little communication usually goes a long way.
i went through a year of breast cancer surgery and treatment. when i smell my neighbor's smoke from his balcony, i almost lose my mind. i want to SCREAM AND CRY. why, why, why, why should i be subjected to this cancer smoke????? it's disgusting and rude. my main question is: why are people still smoking, knowing all the dangers? i never smoked and i got breast cancer. it just infuriates me.
Either the development allows smoking or it doesn't. If you smoke on your balcony or in areas where smoking has been allowed, then I tend to agree -- it's another one of those things people need to tolerate around other people. I think it partly depends on how much you smoke too, or whether its a warm night where everyone has their windows open. But you know, being a smoker -- other people think it gives them the right to hate you, so I doubt you will get much sympathy from anyone.
Loud noises are a nuisance; smoking is a health hazard! And anything that puts anyone else's health in jeopardy should be ceased immediately. Cigarette smoke can cause bronchitis or make a common cold worse...etc. When I had a balcony I used to like leaving my patio doors open to letj fresh air in...needless to say I didn't always get fresh air. My apartment ended up smelling like smoke. Not cool and I think it's rather selfish of smokers to proect their bad habits among others. If you really must smoke outside why don't you move to the country or get a house w/ enough space between yards that others aren't bothered.
Hi Sandy,
Like so many others have posted, yes, smoking is a nuisance, smells horrible to most non-smokers and it affects more than just yourself. I am currently renting an apartment with an amazing balcony however I can never enjoy it because the person below and the person above smoke like an amtrak constantly. I would be even more perturbed if I owned my unit and this was something I had to live with for the next 30 years. Imagine if your neighbor had a pile of dirty diapers on their patio. You could never be on your own and the smell would be overwhelming and disgusting. If you feel that you can do whatever you want on your patio regardless of how it smells or affects others, than the inverse is true as well. Thankfully in my case I'll be moving in two weeks and hopefully the new neighbors around me won't be as self involved and self-destructive.
And while I hate loud dogs like the next cat lady, its a dog's nature to bark. It's not human nature to smoke.
There's a heck of a lot of difference between noise (and I absolutely agree that loud dogs are annoying) and a plume of known carcinogens. How bout this, when your smoke gets into my face, I'll just throw some uranium dust at you, cool? Then we're even on the lung damage.
I think we also need to point out that on top of the health aspect, some people are simply more sensitive about smoke than others. Be it they have asthma or just a very sensitive sense of smell. I know if I see a car in front of, behind, or next to me on the road and the person is smoking with their hand out the window. I make sure to turn off all my outside fans, etc. Because I will be able to smell it. I can even tell if someone is a smoker just from walking by their parked cars. My neighbors do lots of things I dont like, but I know if they made it so I couldnt even enjoy the patio of the condo I own I'd be mad.
I think the smokers just have to suck it up.
Pun intended?
I've never smoked, but given some of the self-righteous comments posted here (and on my condo's Facebook group) I'm thinking of taking it up out of spite. As Joe Jackson once sang, everything gives you cancer. One more cliche for your consideration: Live and let live.
My boyfriend and I smoke on a regular basis, and we live in a small apartment building with two unites above us. We generally smoke on the front step, and probably a few times a day. Before we or our new neighbors moved in, we asked if anyone minded that we smoke out front. We are courteous with our cigarette butts, and either always throw them in the street or in a trash can. I also sweep our front stoop and sidewalk about once a month and never stamp them out in front of other people's houses.
I worry about other people being irritated by the smoke we create, but I don't know how much more courteous we can be. You (as well as myself and my boyfriend) have every right to go outside and have a cigarette on your own property. Perhaps take a page from our book and ask them what bothers them about your smoking outside? That way, the HOA doesn't have to get involved and the problem can be resolved (hopefully) peacefully without calling the authorities in.
I also think that barking all night long should not be tolerated and you should address that when potentially addressing the smoking issue.
I think its definitely your right to smoke in your home, but once that smell (and deadly carcinogens) begins interfering with someone else's life (in their home) that there is a problem. I live down the hall from my buildings superintendent, and he is a smoker. He is not supposed to smoke in his apartment, but I'm sure he does sometimes as our whole hall smells like smoke at least once a week. It's embarrassing to bring friends and family to my apt when it smells like this, they always comment on how nasty it smells. I think you should buy a detached home, or smoke ecigs. A dog barking doesn't cause cancer, smoking does, it is the single greatest cause of preventable death in the US.
I live on the bottom level of a 4-plex. My next door neighbor smokes cigs, pot, etc. at midnight, every night, in the back yard which is a few feet from my bedroom, and directly below the other 2 bedrooms in the complex. I have a sliding glass door in my bedroom, the only source of air in the room. It was a problem before I had a talk with the guy. I would have to get up every night and close my slider because my husband is asthmatic, only to have to get up again a few hours later to open the slider when the room became unbearably hot. I asked the neighbor to smoke in the front yard. Problem solved.
Generally speaking (and this is a broad generalization) smokers don't see the smell of smoke as a problem, but non-smokers are often violently opposed to any smell of smoke. Think about it this way, you go outside to smoke because you don't want the smoke inside your condo, but your neighbors do not have that option. Yes, they can close their windows every time you smoke, but that is effecting their enjoyment of their living situation.
Seems like your issue is more about communication. It's sounds like you're upset that they're complaining to everyone except you about your smoking. I say go to them and talk to them. Be really friendly and understanding. In the end they're your neighbors and will be for a while. Hopefully they'll follow your lead and be more direct.
The fact that smoking is a health hazard isn't the neighbor's or Home Association's business. Neighbors should do their best to be considerate, and HOAs should maintain the neighborhood. That's it. They have no entitlement to police individual's personal liberties, such as smoking on one's own patio.
Btw, I am a non-smoker with smoking neighbors. I may not like their cigs but it isn't my business what they do on their front stoop.
A few more reasonable thoughts...
I live in a very urban environment and yeah, in public areas or when windows are open, we have to deal with smelling neighbor's food, smoke, etc. To some degree it's par for the course. However, I'm also asthmatic, and have a terrible time with even the smallest amount of cigarette smoke.
Do you have a right to enjoy your own property and have a cigarette outside? In my opinion, yes. However, in a multi-family situation, consideration is the best bet. (and I'd say the same thing about the dog - barking dogs, screaming children, etc)
Can you use a "smoke eater" type ashtray? Point a fan so that your smoke blows away from the building?
Are you ensuring that your smoking times are otherwise considerate of others? ie - not while they're sitting down to dinner in the apartment just downwind of you, and not having three or four friends all lighting up at the same time and sitting there for an hour with heavy smoke billowing away?
If I were catching an occasional whiff of my neighbor's smoke, I might (if it was a real problem) ask them to use a fan, or something like that to help mitigate the problem. But I'd otherwise tend to ignore it.
If, on the other hand, I had a chain-smoking neighbor with lots of smoke-stack puffing friends whose smoke filled my apartment multiple times a day, or for long periods at a time, I would definitely have a talk with them about how noticeable their smoke was. and if that failed, yes, I would, under those circumstances, escalate things.
Throwing your butts in the street is equally gross and a huge peeve about smokers. Great. I get to see your litter all the time everywhere. Just one example of rudeness. I live in a semi-rural area and people throw their butts from their car windows into my lawn. I've never seen a smoker go out of their way to put out their butts in their car ashtray or in a can, if they can just throw them in the street. And those thing take forever to breakdown.
While a dog can be a nuisance, it doesn't cause cancer. Imagine if your neighbors had a serious asthma condition? Would you be as flippant about your ~right~ to smoke?
If you won't consider giving up such a frankly gross, and harmful habit, maybe you should just smoke inside.
I'm extremely sensitive to smoke, and notice it both in public and at home... It is something that gives me an almost instant headache and because of this I wish that there was no smoking allowed anywhere, period. It has no health benefits so I truly don't get why people do it in any case!
I can be driving in my car with my windows up and can tell if someone is smoking in theirs two cars ahead of me with their window cracked without seeing it. Same goes for neighbors, it somehow sneaks into the vents and through the walls though I haven't found a source I can even block off or properly filter to try and minimize the effects. As much as I believe that people have every right to enjoy their home, I don't disagree that smoke can be a big problem and as it is detrimental to both my health and the smokers, I can't get upset if it is disallowed.
Smoke inside and stop being a martyr about the neighbor's dog. The HOA needs to know about that as well.
+1 for e-cigs. I smoked a pack a day for nine years before switching in 2010. No smoke, no fire, no tar or carbon monoxide, a controllable, adjustable level of nicotine, I've saved THOUSANDS of dollars, and no smell for neighbors to complain about. Well, unless you count a couple of seconds of faintly caramel-smelling steam. I use it in my office all the time and no one even knows I'm doing it.
And it's not just the next best thing. I like it BETTER than cigarettes. Seriously, look into it.
Non-smoking bylaws are popping up in many cities and countries in the last few years. In BC, you cannot smoke anywhere near 6 meters of windows, balconies, doors, air intakes of any house, building and also nowhere near bus stops. And now, it is illegal to smoke in any public parks. So you'll have to admit, there is a war on smokers that is spreading fast. The problem also with non-smokers is that once they taste clean air and get used to smoke free air, they can't go back to the smoky bars & restaurants, smoky doorways or any kind of exposure for that matter. Smoking is extremely costly for the state--high cost in public health cost.
So in the end, non smokers will win. You'll have to get used to it.
And there is also bylaws about dogs barking. You can and should complain to the animal control office, people have to control their dogs if they like near neighbors.
I parents were heavy smokers,so I know all the negatives from the habit. My suggestion. Get a filter or fan for the smoke to stay at your home and not linger into their area.
You have the right; also acknowledge their rights from the smoke.
Oh, one last statement....would you please consider stop smoking....my parents died way too young from the haibit.
Secondhand smoke causes cancer and is classified as a "known human carcinogen" (cancer-causing agent) by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the US National Toxicology Program, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), a branch of the World Health Organization.
SHS has been linked to lung cancer. There is also some evidence suggesting it may be linked with childhood leukemia and cancers of the larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), brain, bladder, rectum, stomach, and breast.
I totally sympathize with your neighbor. You should quit and soon. You know it's true.
People have some nerve!
If they don't like your smoke they can close their door. I would never let my neighbors dictate what I do in my own home. You should be free to enjoy the occasional ciggy on the balcony. If I were you I would outright ask them kindly and stand by my rights. I'm not even a smoker.
I side w\the neighbor. I'm a non-smoker with smoking neighbors. If I'm indoors with the door open - the neighbor's smoke always filters into my home through the screen door. While I can tolerate other's smoke when I'm outside - I do not want to smell it in my house.
Have I mentioned that the smoke bothers me? No. They knew their 3 outdoor pit bulls prevented me from enjoying my backyard, but took no action. I can't imaging they'll stop smoking on the front porch just for little ol' me.
@peach-pie. Smoking is 100% linked to larangial cancer, as that was the first cancer my father got from smoking for 40 years.
I recently lived in the first floor front unit on a an apartment building. My hipster neighbors made it a truly painful experience as cigarette smoke makes me ill and they'd come to the front stoop to chain smoke their Parliaments. Conversations, notes, a fan and passive aggressive window slamming made a difference, but the problem never fully went away. I moved to an apartment toward the back of the building. Now, whenever I begin to salivate over buildings with courtyards, swimming pools or roof decks, I quickly remember that those spaces are the smoker's paradise. After reading this post, I'll add balconies to that list.
Sandy, as for what you should do, I can't say other than to suggest what a good friend of mine does when I'm around - she wants to smoke like a chimney, but knows it makes me ill, and I want to chill with her. Thus, she rolls her own cigarette's and, for whatever reason (lack of commercial poisons?), they don't irritate me at all. I don't know if this would help your situation, just a thought.
@MEOW: There is absolutely nothing "courteous" about disposing of cigarette butts in the street. The butts are dangerous to our waterways, the marine foodchain, aquatic ecosystems, birds & other wildlife, cause fires, and the litter cleanup costs local governments enormous sums. Paris is working on one solution, but a little courtesy would cost a lot less.
I bought a condo and don't want my smoke to bother anyone. I bought a Swiss air scrubber, and it's great. No second hand smoke for anyone.
As a nonsmoker, smelling cigarette smoke is one of the most horrible, disgusting things imaginable. Especially in your own house. For a non-smoker, being exposed to cigarette smoke, especially multiple times a day, is NOT a trivial thing.
My next door neighbor and downstairs neighbor both smoke. I live in Los Angeles and I don't have any air conditioning, so it is necessary to keep my windows and the sliding glass door to my balcony open for air circulation. However, when either one of my neighbors were smoking, my entire apartment was filled with smoke. I was forced to close all of the doors and windows on that side of the apartment and bake in order to avoid breathing in their cigarette smoke.
(Thank goodness smoking in common areas is illegal where I live, and when I alerted my landlord to what was happening, he made sure the smoking stopped. The quality of my life has improved drastically since then.)
As for the poster, by smoking on your patio, you are not only unwillingly exposing your neighbors to dangerous, carcinogenic chemicals, you are decreasing their quality of life and enjoyment of their homes. You need to stop smoking on your patio, now. I suggest that instead of smoking on your patio, you take a walk and smoke outside in the parking lot/sidewalk/road next to your condo. Your neighbors and their lungs will REALLY appreciate it.
...it's hard to believe that my cigarette really creates that much of a tragedy in their lives.
I'm a cancer patient, and secondhand smoke has become a panic-attack-inducing stressor for me. One of the primary chemo drugs in the fight against lymphoma comes with long-term lung damage. Due to bleomycin's toxicity, I will never be able to go scuba diving or receive concentrated doses of oxygen during surgeries. Secondhand smoke is another trigger that could do irreparable damage. I'm talking about collapsed lungs, infections that cause permanent fibrosis, or developing a secondary form of cancer due to heightened risk from radiation treatment to my chest.
Tragic is precisely the word I'd use to describe any of those situations. I don't look nearly as sick as I am, so when I look angry and flee when someone lights up, they probably just think I'm getting on my high horse, but I'm just hoping to see my 30th birthday.
I am extremely anti smoking, but I think you have rights I'm this situation as a home owner. I have asthma and get migraines from the smell of smoke. I have moved due to smoking neighbora before, but I learned an important lesson. I will never live in an apartment building or condo that is not smoke free. Even if when you move in there are no smokers one could move in and if there is no policy they can rightfully smoke. It is a delicate balance between personal freedom and health. I believe if someone like me has serious issues with smoke they should take the step to live in a smoke free setting.
Smoking is enormously addictive so it's not that easy to "just quit" or not go outside to have that cigarette whatever it does to your neighbours.
At the same time cigarette smoke isn't just about smell (which smokers have a lot less of anyway and thus find it more difficult to just realise what a nasty smell can do). I'm so lucky that I am not a smoker, or even a second hand smoker. This means that I'm not used to smoke so everytime I smell cigarette smoke that equals instant flu - itching runny eyes, snotty nose, difficulty to breathe, the works. Having to feel like that is a harsh price to pay for another person's addiction.
Please consider that your cigg may cause others actual suffering and be as considerate as possible! Hopefully, you'll one day be able to quit and can use those cigarette money on something more fun - not to mention spare the people who loves you from having to watch you die painfully before your time.
I think the HOA just needs to have very clear rules about this sort of thing so that when buyers buy, they know what they're in for.
I do have a great deal of sympathy for people who are sensitive or allergic to cig smoke for whatever reason. I have a friend with asthma -- "little things" like cig smoke can trigger an attack, especially if she's already on the edge. Another friend has a child recently diagnosed with asthma, and even more tragically, with leukemia. They keep everything clean to avoid any possibilities of infection. They made a plea to their neighbors all 'round to not smoke outside (inside it is not permitted), explaining why. All but one clearly a-hole-ish person complied, asserting her right to do as she pleased within the boundaries of the already existing rules.
Well, what can you say about that. She has her "right" -- and she is exercising it, including her right to be a jerk.
Anyway, I'm off topic a bit. :)
Cig smoke does seem to be in a different category than, say, cooking smells; every-day noises from children; occasional thumps and bumps. Then again, I'm not a smoker, nor do I particularly enjoy smoking. Except for the occasional cigar. Far away from anyone who might be trapped in their own apartment and unable to escape it.
Sandy- It sounds like you are already a pretty courteous person, as you are taking into consideration the feelings of your neighbors. So good for you! As a former smoker (and city dweller) I can honestly say, most smokers are very considerate of others. Be it walking away from a crowd or not smoking before getting into a friend's car. So please ignore the ignorant comments from the "anti-smokers".
You have every right to smoke on your balcony. And it is unlikely any carcinogens are making their way into your neighbor's house. Probably just the smell. Plus your neighbors are obviously being childish by not approaching you directly.... That being said, would you rather take no action and create bad blood or keep the peace and use a fan/candle/smokeless ashtray, etc? If it escalates after that, at least you tried... and then you have every right to ignore their feelings and smoke away.
There are people who smoke outside my apartment. Fans in the window (blowing out) help a little, but my apartment still stinks like smoke for the next few hours even if the fan is on. It's disgusting.
I think smoking and barking dogs equally deserve complaints to the HOA.
Irresponsible dig owners are sociopaths. Report them and get others to as well. And sorry, but if they can smell your cigarette smoke, it's also getting into their lungs. Not something a non smoker should have to risk.
One of my biggest regrets in life is that I was a smoker, and extremely inconsiderate about it. I didn't realize this till I quit smoking and couldn't stand to be around smokers. While it is your patio and your space to what you want, that smoke is wafting over to your neighbors. That means they can't have their windows open or sit on their own patio. If you want to be a considerate neighbor, you know what you need to do.
DOG owners. Sorry. iPad.
If your neighbors can smell it, that means they're breathing it - it's totally wrong of you to force your unhealthy habit on people whose only fault is happening to live close to you. Someday I pray that smoking is banned in all multi-unit housing. I had this exact same problem with a couple who moved in downstairs from me last winter - the woman smoked like a fiend and didn't care at all that it was inundating my condo. Didn't care that I have a small child with a family history of life-threatening asthma. Didn't care that I myself am a cancer survivor, even though she was made aware of all of these circumstances. It got so bad, and so ugly that I finally put my condo on the market. Ironically, the woman died on cancer this past spring, but by then we had already moved on. In my personal opinion, if you smoke anywhere, either inside or outside your dwelling, in a multi-unit building, you are NOT considering your neighbors or, more importantly, their CHILDREN.
Most people are not allowed to smoke inside!
Non-smokers should not have to tolerate the waste products of your drug addiction in their homes. Period. Would you tolerate a heroin junky tossing an occasional used needle into your apartment? For many people, smoking is as dangerous and disgusting as a heroin habit. And, yes, smoking is an addiction. You should do whatever it takes to prevent your addiction from imposing on anyone else's life. That may sound harsh, but sometimes harshness is required to get a point across.
"We are courteous with our cigarette butts, and either always throw them in the street or in a trash can"
How is littering public spaces being courteous? Take your disgusting cigarette butts back into the house with you and dispose of them properly.
i wonder if the complainers are former smokers themselves? Some of my apartment neighbors were both smokers at one point. One quit with a job change, because the business was non smoking. She quit on a weekend. Her friend smoked, but only outside and in the car. Once the friend quit, they both noticed after a few months how hyper sensitive both were to any form of smoke- tobacco, candle, leaf burning, wood fireplaces.
As the daughter and granddaughter of smokers, I am an asthma patient and allergy patient. Both are common in smoker families. My asthma is triggered by candles, scented or not, as well as the tobacco products. I could sniff the neighbor's friend for proof of cheating. Friend quit cold turkey and didn't cheat, different brands of smoke scent from being out.
Yes, doubters, you can trigger a major health issue by having an asthmatic breathe your second hand smoke. For those unaware, asthma is a cumulative disease. Every attack creates more fluid/damage to the lungs which is not reversible. Old term was ephysema, modern term is COPD. Same meaning, just different degrees of danger. For those having bronchitis, that's the mild form. All my friends with smoking parents have some issues now and none smoke. i wouldn't wish my disease on anyone, but I also do everything I can to avoid further triggers.
Thankfully, I no longer live in multifamily dwellings. My region has smoke-free dining, medical buildings, and sports.
I have as much right to smoke-free air as the smokers have to smoke. They do not have the right to pollute the air in my home or yard.
Those smoking outdoors instead of in their own homes, may do that to avoid paying a higher insurance rate than non-smokers for the same space.
I have never been a smoker, and while yes, it seems unfair that you can't smoke outside, your outside smoke doesnt stay confined to your little square of air, otherwise there would be no problem. When your cloud drifts, it's someone elses' problem.
I am a migraine sufferer, and it's triggered usually by smells. Certain perfumes, and any tobacco smoke. If you've ever had a migraine, you'd understand why so many of us who are sensitive to smoke are giving you the evil eye. You're not just blowing your smoke into a little bubble...it's our air too.
When you smoke in the car (oops, wait...not really IN your car because all of the smokers are driving while holding the cigs OUT of the window)...the cars behind you are cursing you out or zooming to pass you. It's because we DO smell that. I can smell cigarette smoke from 2-3 cars back. I can smell it wafting outside in the air, and at outdoor events. People are fired up about this post because it's NOT your air to abuse as you please. Some smokers treat "outside" as if there is a direct blow hole to space or something...Out of lungs, out of mind? Maybe for you, but the rest of us are left dealing with the smoke you don't seem to want in your house OR your cars.
Some of the commenters seem to think that a neighbor going out on the balcony to smoke is the smoker's right, regardless of how it effects someone else... but what about my right to walk onto my balcony to get some fresh air? Just as "fences make good neighbors" doing something simple like installing a fan is an easy thing to do to make everyone involved happy and comfortable. And I wonder why smokers go outside to smoke, instead of smoking inside? Oh, right, because cigarette smoke is disgusting.
All the comments saying "Quit smoking!" are so helpful aren't they? :/
Here's the thing... for anyone who doesn't think smoke is a problem - then why are you smoking outdoors? Smoke in your own unit, windows shut, so it doesn't waft into others. Or, save it for a true open-air space where anyone who doesn't "like it" (or has real concerns like pregnancy or asthma) can just walk away.
TL;DR (responses).
You're not in the wrong. But, you're not in the right either. If anything you do on your property creates a nuisance to others on their own property, it is a tort (legal action, not the pastry).
Talk to your neighbor. Apologize for the offending smoke, but remind him/her that it's not against HOA policy. Then ask him/her if there is a convenient time when you can enjoy a smoke, and when there is a usual inconvenient time. Exchange numbers so he/she can send you a quick text message if there are changes to this schedule (I use a google voice number to prevent harassment).
At the same time, talk about the dog barking. They may be completely unaware that this is happening. Or, they may just not know what to do about it.
If they end up unreasonable, then escalate to involving the HOA.
Wait--smoking is unhealthy? Thanks, AT readers!!!! I'll post that on my Facebook wall so all my friends will know too. Wonder why the mainstream media isn't reporting on this important breaking news. Conspiracy! On a related note, can anyone identify the paint color in the OP above? It would look darling behind my vintage European crack pipe collection. Thx!
I do not smoke and for a number of health reasons find smoke very difficult to deal with even outdoors. However, I support Sandy's right to smoke on the balcony occasionally; by that I mean, perhaps no more than two cigarettes per evening. I don't think it fair to require Sandy to adhere to rules that are not in the HOA. Courtesy and consideration go a long way to alleviating concerns. By even inquiring about what it is appropriate, Sandy demonstrates a consideration for others' well-being. I think the filtered ashtray or air-filter (though I don't know how this could work outdoors) are also good ideas.
My partner is a regular smoker (and I am a semi-regular smoker). We too have had complaints from our neighbors. Luckily, we have a large yard, so we've been able to move around enough that they seem to be less irritated by the smell, but you may be limited in your space. One thing that I think might be helpful is to put a fan on your balcony. This will help dissipate the smoke so it doesn't waft up to your neighbors unit.
You are clearly considerate enough to worry about your neighbors. Please quit smoking. Not for your neighbors (who will genuinely appreciate it), for yourself and everyone who cares about you.
Smoking in condo communities is a very hot issue now, and many communities have banned smoking on the premises. I am the President of my condo association, and we are dealing with this constantly. Most smokers are unaware of how pervasive the smell is, and often cite their "rights". A non-smoker will ask why they must be denied the right to use their balcony because their neighbor smokes. When my neighbor's teenage daughters both light up on their balcony, I have to leave mine, go indoors, and close the windows. The heavy smoker in the unit adjacent to the lobby means the first impression you get of our building is that of cigarette smoke. I have visited the units of people who are next to or above heavy smokers and the smell is very obvious. I don't think we can continue to place smoking in the same category as any other nuisance, like a barking dog or crying child. It's dangerous as well as being obnoxious. I know our community is moving in the direction of a ban...and that will be a good thing.
Smoking may be a health hazard, but so are a lot of things. I would flip if someone took away my sugary beverages and candy. These aren't good for me either, but it is my decision to have them. If people are being considerate of others, they get to make their own choices.
I am an asthmatic with 4 smoking parents, needless to say it has always been around. I hate it and it does cause asthma attacks at times. I had a neighbor who smoked (cigarettes and pot) in their apartment and it wafted into my apartment through the vents. This was really frustrating, but I never saw it as their problem. The building had poor air systems and I did what I could (closing the vents at times) to prevent it from coming in. People should be able to enjoy what they want to in their own space, and you're even outside!
The best thing that you can do is be considerate to not smoke constantly out there, and it sounds like you are being very conscientious of your behavior. Beyond getting a fan on your porch, I do not think you should have to do anything else. A nice conversation with them could help. If you go out of your way to discuss your actions with them, they really shouldn't be able to say anything else.
Good luck!
The difference in your sugary beverages & candy and cigarettes is that your sugary beverages & candy do not emit noxious, disgusting fumes that make their way into other people's personal space. Eat all the junk food you want but realize it's not the same nuisance as smoking.
For everyone who says to smoke inside, that is actually worse for the neighbors most of the time. Even if you don't share ductwork/ventilation, the smell and smoke can travel. Especially upward, but to the units next to or below you as well. It's far better to go outside - but still sucks to be your neighbor. My sister and her husband had to break a lease and find a new apartment because they didn't want their newborn breathing the neighbor's prolific pot smoke. No lie, you could smell it from the street. It was that bad.
I live in a 4plex apartment where our rules actually state there is no smoking anywhere on the property. (if you want to smoke you go to the street). However both my downstairs neighbors are smokers. One of them has solved the issue of smoking very kindly. He smokes an electronic cigarette. He can smoke it in the house and it's just water vapors. I don't have to smell it and his house doesn't smell. (Plus since it keeps getting colder and colder he doesn't even have to freeze by going outside!)
However my other neighbors that smoke do it right outside their door and on my stairs. The smoke gets into my house. It lingers upstairs after they are done smoking even for hours. It's horrible. I hate leaving my home or even coming home due to smelling it.
If you really have to smoke that bad get an electronic cigarette (Pack and a half in one of those blu e-cigs). In the long run it will run it's worth it. You wont have neighbors complaining. No one's house has to smell. None of your clothes have to smell either from you smoking. (Which trust me everyone can smell when you go places).
Wow, there are a lot of "high & mighty" people responding on this blog post. It must be satisfying to not have any bad habits or issues that impact the people around you. How wonderful you are as you help little old ladies cross the street, never get road rage, only eat vegan food, of course not smoke (how dare people add toxins your air. After all, you do drive an electric car), always give up your seat on the bus, and never judge others for their failure to live up to your standards. We can all learn something from your example. Where is this utopia in which you live?
Sorry, smoking is not just a nuisance. It kills people. It can kill people who aren't even smokers. Personally, I don't care what decisions you make (no matter how ill-advised) as long as they don't affect my right to live a healthy lifestyle. When you smoke in a common area, smoke inside a multi-unit building or outside a front door that people walk through, everyone else gets to take part in your decision and they're probably not too keen on it.
I respect your right to smoke and think you should be able to, but unfortunately it's not an activity that can be easily isolated from the rest of the population.
Definitely look into the robot cigs. You can get your fix and your neighbors will be happy.
Also, lets put things into perspective:
Smoking related deaths in the U.S. in 2009: 443,000 (49,000 from secondhand smoke). That accounts for about one fifth of all deaths. (Source: CDC).
That's more than TWICE the number of car accidents, suicides, and influenza deaths combined. It's not just a gross habit, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of the suicides weren't due to a noisy child or a barking dog.
Heart disease is the number one killer. However, heart disease doesn't waft through my window, make my home smell (thereby decreasing my property value when I go to sell), or trigger my allergies.
Dog noise is serious though. "Happiness" studies show that people who suffer even serious setbacks (financial problems, permanent disabilities, losing their home) do suffer but eventually recover their genetic "set point" of happiness. They get used to their circumstances. The exception? Noise. People can be driven crazy by it and never adapt to the disturbance. Shut your dogs up.
As long as it stays outside and I don't have to deal with it, then I don't care what you do. BUT, when it starts blowing into my place or coming through my air vents (which has happen a few times in my old apartment) then I do care. The smoke is gross, unhealthy and no one should have to be subjected to it other than the person smoking.
Seriously, I don't get the rudeness of smokers. You go on and on about your "freedom" but don't want to give us non-smokers the freedom of not getting cancer from your stupid, vile habit. Sorry, you won't find any sympathy from me. I can't think of anything dumber to do than put a "ciggy" in your mouth and then pass on the health-care costs of your habit on to the rest of us.
If people can smell tobacco smoke, it actually IS a health hazard - and you are absolutely menacing their health.
Okay, since my comment is gone and I'm guessing someone reported it as spam, I'll say it again:
Look into e-cigarettes. Your neighbor problem will be solved, they're better for your health, and you'll save thousands of dollars.
This website does not sell anything, by the way, it is a forum for sharing information.
" At least a barking dog isn't a health hazard."
nonsense. If it wakes you up at 3 am it most certainly IS a health hazard.
please drop the "smokers are the devil" nonsense. It's not good, but come on. Are you railing about the black soot coming out of every diesel truck that drives by your place or person? No? Well maybe you should! That ain't good for you either.
I can't think of any habit I have that affects other people, let alone something as awful as sending plumes of carcinogens into their homes.
The closest thing I can think of is that I buy items which are shipped using fuel which contributes to pollution and health issues for some people. I believe that is one of those "fact of life" things that we all participate in. I'm energy conscious, I don't own a car, I do help old ladies and offer my seat to them and pregnant women (as well as old men and people with tons of groceries and anyone who looks like they'd appreciate the seat more than I would). I'm vegetarian, and I don't get road rage since I don't drive. I pick up after my dog and have her leashed unless I'm in a designated off-leash area. Perhaps the fact that I call BS when I see it annoys some people...?
It's not a utopia, since the world around me is filled with a-holes who think only about themselves. But I don't feel good when I'm taking part in that aspect of society, and I feel quite good when I do good things. This includes taking into consideration how my actions can affect others. Smokers impose on other people all the time and for some reason they feel entitled to do it.
As a former smoker, I totally get it that it's lovely to be able to go out on your balcony to enjoy a cigarette and a glass off wine. But as a former smoker, I live above someone who does this and the secondhand smoke wafting into my place smells disgusting.
I didn't want to have to take away this pleasure from my downstairs neighbor, but I did ask for a compromise, like a smokeless ashtray.
I don't know what she did, but I haven't smelled it since.
It's hard to believe that non-smokers would argue on the side of smokers... that just doesn't make sense... and neither does smoking.
I feel for you, but even more for your neighbors. I used to live in an apartment complex and my neighbors would constantly smoke on their balcony, with the smoke drifting into my home. This got especially annoying when I was pregnant (smoking can cause birth defects -- I don't think it's the same as a dog barking or a child crying!). I never complained, but we moved out of there soon after. Not everyone can afford to, though. Infants especially are vulnerable to smoke -- they can absorb carcinogens through their delicate skin from smoke that has gotten into carpets and upholstery. I don't know that I'd want that on my conscience.
Aside from trying to prove who's in the right here...if you really care about having good relationships with your neighbors, do what you need to do to prevent the smoke from drifting into their home. And while you're at it, tell them that their dog barking all night annoys you; they might be a little more understanding.
Well it's just a shame that the cigarette smoke doesn't know to stay within inches of your face. It's such a waste to have those perfectly good carcinogens wafting over to the neighbors' place. After all, you paid for them, you deserve to "enjoy" them 100%.
The condo/apartment dwellers in my community actually have it better than those living in a housing tract or development. In my city, the condo/apartment dwellers must leave the complex property to smoke. I wish the same were true for those of us living in residential homes with smoking neighbors. My neighbor used to work at his garage workbench while smoking a cigarette. He didn't want that annoying smoke in his face, so he used a fan to blow it out of the garage – and into our family room! We complained and he stopped the practice, however whenever he worked outdoors the smoke would waft into my yard. It would irritate my throat and eyes, so I'd be forced to go indoors because of his bad habit.
One month ago, he died a lengthy, horrible death as a result of his lifelong smoking habit. A few days later, the other smoker on my street died at age 58. So dear smoker, do I feel sorry for you? No! Smoking opportunities should be hard to come by. Buying and smoking cigarettes should be a hardship. You are shortening your life and you are selfishly damaging the health of others. Don't get me started on what smokers are doing to the health care system. Don't be so selfish....quit smoking!
Another asthmatic who grew up in a smoke-filled house speaking here. Noise laws make it clear that noise doesn't magically stop at your property line; neither does smoke, & both affect your neighbors. Several people have made good suggestions about ashtrays & fans.
If you can't quit, at least try damage control, & thank you for the concern for others that you show by even asking the question.
Side note--my tolerance took at hit on Tuesday: my precinct's polling place is an American Legion hall. I REALLY should not have to vote with one hand & clutch my inhaler with the other!!
A fb user posted this on the AT page...Thought I'd post it here. http://news.domain.com.au/domain/real-estate-news/cancer-survivor-to-sue-neighbours-over-their-secondhand-smoke-20111229-1pdfx.html
You're fortunate that balconies are permitted areas for smoking. And I don't understand why specific individuals can be singled out.
I'm not a smoker. I don't like cigarette smoke myself. It's a health hazard. That said I hang out with many people, some of whom do smoke and I don't hold it against them. I don't like people smoking around me, and I notice it on their clothes, but it's not my place to dictate. Nor would it be polite.
In my building, smoking is not permitted on any common property. In our bylaws, a balcony is considered common property but exclusive use. So, in addition to not being able to smoke in the parking lot or anywhere else outside of a unit, balconies are off limits. This might seem good until the alternatives are looked at, which leaves the middle of the street (since there is a distance requirement as well) or inside one's unit.
The middle of the street is unrealistic to expect. So that makes inside the unit as a likely option. So what about the non-smokers in the home? Their children? I'd rather the smokers were able to go on their balconies than have them smoking inside. Fair enough, it's their call as to continue smoking or quit. But does a single parent have to go out on the street to smoke with his/her children in tow? Leave them alone? It gets messy fast.
As for my condo and enjoying my living situation, and since dogs were mentioned, it could be worse. Dog poo repeatedly being left indoors the hallways and taking 3 months to steam clean the carpets after someone stepped in it and mushed it in down the hallway is appalling. Given the choice, personally I'd rather have smoking permitted on the balconies than that.
Totally against smoking anywhere in a condo building. As soon as we banned smoking in my building and on the grounds my help improved. You can't control the smoke and you force others to deal with it. Non acceptable in my opinion.
Smoking is repulsive to many non-smokers (myself included). No one should be forced to smell your smoke in their living space. Aside from the smell, it is also detrimental to everyone's health--yours and anyone subjected to your secondhand smoke. It is not acceptable for your habit to affect others who share your building.
On the subject of dogs--yes, they bark. No, they should not bark every night at 3 am. If they bark once in a while in the middle of the day, that should be acceptable as a minor nuissance. Their bark doesn't cause cancer. Your cigarette does, regardless of the time of day.
Holy crap, people, calm down.
This whole thing can be solved with a fan to disperse the smoke away from the building and a smokeless ashtray. If you really want to be sure there's not a problem, see if you can build walls to separate the neighboring patios. That will help immensely with the redirection of air. There is no need to go on and on about the hazards of 2nd hand smoke to someone already willing to take measures.
So many of you people are incredibly self-righteous and mean. Moreover, I'm willing to guess at least half of these commenters demanding that smokers quit for their own good, have their own vices. And yes, I get it - second-hand smoke kills. But the studies correlate prolonged exposure with increased cancer risk - living with a smoker, or working in a heavy smoke environment.
Smoking outdoors was permitted when Sandy moved in/signed the least/whatever. At the very, very least, she (?) should be given the opportunity to find a new place of residence without penalty, if the HOA decides to change it's policy. There are smoke-free buildings for precisely the reasons that have already been mentioned in these comments, but it would be unfair to change the leasing agreement before a contract runs out. It's unfair that Sandy's cigarette smoke wafts into the neighbors apartment? No, that's wind. If the neighbor had a known severe smoke allergy, he should have moved into a building with a very strict no-smoking policy.
You know what? Cigarettes should be illegal. They serve no good purpose. But until they are, a person should be permitted to enjoy them where not otherwise prohibited. It might be nice of Sandy to get a smokeless ashtray, or a fan, or an air filter, but she doesn't have to, because cigarettes are legal. All the statistics in the world won't change that fact.
Smokers don't care about you and your moral panic over secondhand smoke in wide open spaces. - enclosed areas? outdoor gatherings? Some smokers will be considerate about that, but they definitely don't care that you think smoking is gross. So to you who are appalled, shocked and affronted that adults would dare to consume lighted tobacco products IN PUBLIC - - go lobby your legislature. Because as long as they're legal, haranguing smokers is a waste of your time.
If it bothers others then it is a problem. You are aware of the health concerns it poses to those around you. I smoked for 20 years but since February 2012 I switched to electronic cigs (V2cigs is the only brand we liked). It has no odor, no "smoke" but there is a vapor so you don't miss anything - and you still get nicotine but no cancer causing poisons and such. It's not better than quitting by any means but it is a hell of a lot better. We've used those for almost a year now - plus it costs me $50 a month to smoke them (whereas real cigs cost $6 a DAY). :) I liked them so much I signed up to get a coupon code to give my friends. LOL (If you want to try them use my username as a coupon code at v2cigs.com)
They introduced an 'express' kit which is super cheap (like $25) for those people who want to try them. Plus they have flavors (like chocolate and coffee!). My boss lets me smoke them INSIDE because there is no odor, or 2nd hand smoke.
Good luck with the whole condo thing!!
WERE YOU MY DOWNSTAIRS NEIGHBOR?? Cuz I lived above two smokers in an apartment complex in Berkeley, and I can say from experience that the smoke DOES waft into the open windows. I could smell it all throughout my apartment and it drove me crazy. Maybe I want to enjoy some fresh air from my windows, or cool off the apartment since most Bay Area homes do not have AC. I filed a complaint to management and the smoking went away. I could enjoy the air again.
I've also had my one of my apartments almost burned down because some smokers carelessly tossed their butts near the wall.
Clearly I am biased against irresponsible smokers. As with most things, do what you want, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else negatively.
I have no patience for smokers either- what I notice is they close their doors on the balcony, to keep the smoke out of their apartments, but no consideration for my doors and windows being open. It's disgusting and the only thing I dislike about living in an apartment.
I recommend getting a fan or some other solution that will either suck up or push out the smoke. My mom used to smoke in our kitchen with the hood vent going to suck up the smoke, and our house didn't retain a smoke smell, so maybe get a quiet air filter to put out there. Beyond doing that, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless someone decides to put on their big boy pants and talk to you about it, or unless management brings it up (which they shouldn't, if you put in something to vent the smoke, and you would probably be able to take issue with if you have taken reasonable steps to accomodate others). I have had smoking neighbors in the past, and sometimes I could smell it but for me it did not trigger asthma or allergies, so I did not see it as a place for me to vent my moral indignation and get all douchey about. If someone DOES have legitimate health problems that are somehow triggered by your smoking, then you'd be an ass not to go to at least some extra length to not, you know, send them to the hospital.
There's a lot of reasonable and heart-felt advice on here, from both sides. But, some of these posters are just rude! Shame on you. Guess what? Almost ALL of us had had someone close to us die from smoking-related diseases. Two this year for me. Yes, it's sad, and I don't like smoke, either. It doesn't give you the right to be a bully to a smoker who's trying to be considerate, though. Take your frustrations out elsewhere.
That being said, Sandy, you don't need to read every comment to see that this issue can make otherwise nice(?) people o on the warpath. Better to take the high road and reach out to them first. Better yet, buy a smokeless ashtray first and just start using it. Good luck!
Wow. The tone of many (most?) of the commenters on this post is unhelpful and downright rude. I'm no big fan of smoking (never smoked a day in my life, and avoid secondhand smoke whenever I can), but I would venture to say that being pissy and self-righteous has the potential to take as many years off your life as inhaling a few minutes of smoke odor every day. My advice to everyone in this or a comparable situation is to try and handle things on a personal level as much as possible. Once you know and appreciate your neighbors as people it is much easier to find common ground, even on tough issues like this one.
What a cheerful being.
I pay for a place,Im going to do whatever I want in it.Period.Be glad they arent cooking up meth!
@lafemmevenita and @apk_101 even though you have different points of view, you each sound so...reasonable! How refreshing.
My mom plays piano, and she always says she'd never move to a city apartment because when you live in an apt, "you can't just play whenever you want". That's consideration. Those who want true freedom to do whatever shouldn't live in a coop/condo.
My mom plays piano, and she always says she'd never move to a city apartment because when you live in an apt, "you can't just play whenever you want". That's consideration. Those who want true freedom to do whatever shouldn't live in a coop/condo. I agree with those who note that it seems Sandy is at least considerate enough to try to figure out what's right (unlike some who only seem to care about "their rights"). Come at it from that angle and you'll have the best shot of settling this amicably. Unfortunately, HOAs have been known to pass rules on much less fraught issues (holiday lighting, exterior paint colors), so you're probably heading into a losing battle if someone really is peeved about the smoke.
What I find really interesting is that there are a few people who have had problems with the smell of their neighbor's smoke. And there are two distinct ways they have tried to solve the problem.
The most self righteous want to leave passive-aggressive notes and complain to the management and whisper through the grapevine to solve their problems.
The others seemed to have respectfully addressed the issues with their neighbors directly.
Surprisingly enough, everyone that was passive-aggressive and rude seemed to have no results, while both people who respectfully addressed the issues with their neighbors found that speaking nicely to the smokers solved the problem.
The lesson here: grow the hell up. Acting like a five year old and tattling to management is not going to get your smoking neighbors to respectfully change their ways. Addressing them calmly like the adults that they are is much more likely to get results.
Newsflash: Smokers know that smoking is dangerous. Crazy, right? But for a plethora of reasons, some adults knowingly accept the risk that comes with their cigarettes. So just shouting numbers at them isn't going to make them say "Ghee whiz, I had no idea that smoking could be dangerous? By golly, I'll quit right now!"
I think you should avoid the passive aggressiveness in this situation, be the bigger person, and go talk to the neighbor. Maybe even with the gift of an air purifier. I grew up with a chain smoking mom, but after getting out of there I am very sensitive to it. I know when I visit for the holidays it's red eyes and headaches even when my mom goes outside. She, like most smokers, honestly can not comprehend how bad it lingers and how sensitive some people are since she is not. However, you are an adult, you know the danger, and its not illegal. Try fans, ain't purifiers, etc but bottom line you have to communicate with your neighbor and find a solution you both can live with.
I've never seen so many comments in a thread on this site, my contribution is 1) a joke, are passive remarks the response to passive smoking? and 2) to state my position, my neighbours smoke right next to our fence and it wafts in and fills my house, it must be to do with air currents. I get on well with them but I hate it and have bitten my tongue so far (>5 years). I have considered a fan and might look into this now.
@everyone who's saying that Sandy is trying to be considerate or doing the right thing by writing to AT.
Please read the "Good Question" again... In case you don't want to, I've summarized it below:
Paragraph 1
I enjoy smoking. Some people in the condo don't like it and the HOA is on their side
Paragraph 2
Now my neighbours are complaining behind my back. If the HOA sends a notice I'll disregard it.
Paragraph 3
The neighbours haven't spoken to me, but smoking is allowed. The HOA could ban it, though.
Paragraph 4
I don't complain about things that obviously annoy me such as children, other smokers and dog barking.
Paragraph 5
I tolerate other nuissances such as dog barking, so why are people so offended by smelling my smoke in their unit? It's not hurting them. How do I deal with them. Am I wrong in ignoring what I've heard?
Sorry, I don't detect any sense of consideration. Basically Sandy is saying that things annoy him/her about the neighbours but they don't complain even though they're not sleeping at night, but that they have every right to send plumes of smoke into their neighbour's windows. They even said that a cease and desist from the HOA would be ignored if received. I hope that Sandy does read every single comment and see the overwhelming support for their neighbours. Smoking isn't a nuissance, it's a health hazzard and something nobody who doesn't smoke should be forced to deal with in their home.
And I hope the HOA lays the smackdown if Sandy does ignore a cease and desist. Talk to your neighbours and see if there is anything you can do, short of quitting. If they don't want to ever smell your smoke then save yourself thousands of dollars a year and just quit already.
"I can honestly say that since living in the East Bay I have lived around neighbors that smoked cigarettes or even pot, had loud children or infants, and obviously dogs."
" it's hard to believe that my cigarette really creates that much of a tragedy in their lives"
as a non-smoker, I have considerably less problems with people smoking pot outside than smoking cigarettes. pot has not that nasty smell and doesn't linger that long.
as a non smoker, I have to say smoking waffering into my apartment is unacceptable. It's not about health risks, it's about the smell itself.
Outside I don't mind. If you are sitting outside, maybe give your neighbor a shout out so that they can close their windows.
@carrotsticks: a bit harsh. I read the question differently. I do think that Sandy is trying to find a middle ground, you always have to negotiate with your neighbors and I would complain about a barking dog as well. You are probably one of those people who write complains and bitch to the landlord without consulting with the neighbor first because you think everyone else is mean and out to get you.
Actually, I have a great relationship with my neighbours (I have 4 units touching my place, including a store). You're making a pretty big assumption about me, and it seems that you haven't read my other comments telling Sandy to try and mitigate as well as communicate with their neighbour. Nothing I summarized was incorrect. Try reading thoroughly next time.
In regards to the cease and desist, Sandy wrote " I would not have accepted an overblown threat over a pack of Marlboros" and further went on to say " it's hard to believe that my cigarette really creates that much of a tragedy in their lives". Sounds very dismissive of their neighbours concerns to me.
And then I noticed that many people were congratulating Sandy: "Sandy- It sounds like you are already a pretty courteous person, as you are taking into consideration the feelings of your neighbors. Good for you!". There is no indication of this except for the final sentance-question "Am I totally in the wrong here?", which sounds to me like they just can't believe anyone would take issue with their home smelling like someone else's bad habit.
Sorry, it's called critical reading. It sounds like Sandy wrote in to have their freedoms validated by the AT community. At minimum, Sandy is asking the opinion of the public to see how they should proceed in dealing with a "prickly neighbour" who doesn't like to have cancer-smoke wafting into their home. The overwhelming majority of people are suggesting that they talke to the neighbours which should have been step #1 before writing in to a design/lifestyle blog.
I have a severe allergy to cigarette smoke. I get rashes all over my body and itchy eyes so I sympathize with your neighbors.
That said, there are a few things you can do to mitigate the smell from your end such as using a fan to disperse the air or fill ashtrays with cat litter to extinguish cigarettes in and capture the odor. If you have lighting on your balcony consider spraying your favorite cologne or perfume on a cold lightbulb so it diffuses in the air when on.
As long as you are making some effort to make sure the smoke doesn't bother the neighbors, then I think you've your part.
Let me propose why it's perfectly acceptable to complain to the HOA in some cases instead of talking directly to the neighbors. I and many other tenants have had loud or inconsiderate neighbors we have spoken to politely. Sometimes these idiots actually turn up the volume or do other things to deliberately provoke a reaction. Remember, these are idiots who don't have enough common sense to know loud music or barking dogs might bother people and have to be told like schoolchilden.
More often, the offenders will stop the behavior for a few weeks then go right back to the behavior. When we ask again politely for them to stop, eventually you're met with eye rolls or a bad attitude. Worst case scenario, months later we might complain to the landlord and the offender then knows exactly who complained, which can spark retaliation. I personally have had death threats, a smashed windshield and a spray painted car.
This isn't brain surgery. They're not making things up. People really are smelling your cigarette smoke. It really is bothering them and they really can get sick from it. Take the high road and find another place to smoke. Your community will appreciate it.
As a non-smoker who dreads living next to my neighbor who sits outside in his backyard and chain smokes all night (we have an evaporative cooler which then sucks all the smoke directly into our house) - I *still* say that if you are smoking on your property then that is your right. All the neighbors can do is politely ask you to smoke elsewhere, and then you can see if that is something you are willing to do. If I were you, I would let them know that I would be happy to find a more out of the way place to smoke, and ask the barky neighbor if she would be willing to purchase a citronella collar? Most states have nuisance barking laws, you shouldn't suffer through the nightly barking, call the non-emergency police line on them!
This is a nice and polite way to approach. I would be glad to move away and smoke from anyone's 'area' that is affected in any way by my few nightly or weekend cig's. I KNOW I wouldn't want the smoke and all it entails in my house/apt either, whether I smoked or not. Aren't citronella collar's for mosquito's????? I laughed when I saw that, so earnestly said.. (but maybe that's what they're called..for some reason ; ) )
Sandy, I have to agree with your neighbours that you are in the wrong here. A shame non smokers cannot enjoy some air on their own balcony when smokers are hogging all the fresh air with their cigarette smoke. Smokers, your smoke does stink, it is offensive, it is a health hazard. Smokers always claim it is their *right* to smoke, it's not illegal, but what about the right of others to enjoy fresh air without it being fouled with your smoke?
This is why laws have been changed to prevent people from smoking in public places such as restaurant, bars and planes. Because it is awful and dangerous for those who don't smoke yet passively inhale other peoples smoke. Would you light up in a restaurant? Is it only the laws that prevent you from doing so that would stop you or surely you realise how unpleasant it would make the environment for others nearby! Yet in their very own home, your neighbours, like me, still must suffer from the very same thing! Noxious second hand smoke.
My suggestion to Sandy is twofold, if you must continue to smoke, do so inside your apartment and deal with the residue of your own smoke yourself, or better yet, quit the habit and learn to enjoy the pleasure of fresh air in your lungs. You will feel a lot better, your health and life expectancy will improve and your neighbours won't have any reason to complain at all.
I understand that as a smoker you don't understand the issue your neighbours have with your second-hand smoke. My husband is a smoker and he doesn't see a problem with going outside to smoke and smoke wafting into our house when we have an open window, because he doesn't think it's that big of a problem; he's oblivious to the fact that cigarette smoke is disgusting to me. The smell of smoke makes me feel ill and gives me headaches, but he thinks I'm exaggerating. It's incredibly frustrating.
I think you need to realise that the people living around you don't want to have to deal with your smoke, and I can't blame them. It's your decision to smoke, but, as many governments have determined, it's also the right of everyone to not have to smell your smoke. It's a health hazard to them. If you choose to do that to your body, it's your business, but your neighbours really shouldn't have to deal with your problem.
A guy across the street from me smokes out of his window, and I often see the girl living above him having to shut her window each time he does it, as it goes directly into her flat. I think what he's doing is selfish. Why do you think many buildings require that you're at least a certain number of feet from their entrance when you smoke? Because it enters the building and bothers people.
"it's hard to believe that my cigarette really creates that much of a tragedy in their lives."
That's because you're a smoker. Smoke to non-smokers is absolutely disgusting. Imagine your neighbours blowing the stench of dog pooh into your apartment. You'd be mad, too. That's what you're doing to them. Think about it.
You and your neighbor have equal right to use and enjoy the space. Your right to enjoy an occasional cigarette is equally valid despite the backlash you may receive here. Your neighbors have the right to avoid injury and/or foul odors wafting into their space. I would suggest addressing it with them in a positive and proactive manner before it reaches HOA level of action. I always say, "invitation not confrontation". Invite them to express their feelings so you can both reach a neighborly compromise of mutual respect. Invite them to offer a possible solution.
Maybe its only during dinner hour that it affects them? Perhaps as the weather turns colder, they won't have their windows open at all? Maybe a smokeless ashtray and a reversed fan will do the trick? Invite the conversation with an open mind focused on solutions.
In my experience though, the longer that you ignore it, the more likely it is to increase from a moderate annoyance to an embittered battle.
my two cents, my boyfriend smokes, i dont, and its not a big deal if you are have a ciggy or so at night on your own property. if the neighbors have a problem with it, talk to them about it. if they dont like it, they can close their window, unless it is excessive. People will go to the HOA because they dont want to confront you about it, bit if you confront them about it, they probably wont, because you can reassure them, you know your rights as an owner. Just always be kind and pleasant. "while i understand you do not care for my smoking, i do like to enjoy one or so every many after i get off of work on my patio. I am sure you can relate to wanting to destress, or enjoy the company of friends."
I'm sorry I can't read all 157 comments because someone might have said this already but as a non-smoker apartment dweller who has a somewhat allergic reaction to smoke, I have dealt with this problem for years with some ambivalence.
On the one hand, I really believe you have the right to smoke in your own home (as long as it is not a non-smoking building) and outside with your friends or whatever. But I have lived in places where people were smoking outside on their own balconies for hours and hours on a Saturday night with their buddies and because of the way the ventilation worked or the way the balconies were set up, smoke would pour into my apartment any time I had the window open to get some "fresh air." And frankly it does make me sick. I'm not talking about in a moralistic way, but physically ill.
So, I don't want to judge or make other people bend to my will, but I don't think I should have to sit in my own home breathing cigarette smoke for hours. I don't know what the answer is but I think if you are the smoker it would be nice to think about your neighbors. It's more than a nuisance or a "bad smell."
And don't even get me STARTED about unruly neighbor dogs. ;) You shouldn't have to put up with that either.
I hate the smell of cigarette smoke, curry, and peanut butter. Barking dogs, loud stereos, and people who stomp when they walk bother me. But as long as I'm living in multi-unit buildings, it's something I have to deal with. Your neighbors should deal with it too, or get an isolated house out in the 'burbs.
Just because they can smell it does not make it a health hazard. It's a minor inconvenience at worst.
I'm sorry, but I think it's the other way around. If you want to have obnoxious dogs, smoke everywhere and loud parties, it is (speaking to everyone here) YOU who needs to find a place in the middle of nowhere. You live in a community, you should be mature enough to think about how your actions affects others.
Smokers don't have much of a sense of smell any more. You have no idea, Sandy, how incredibly offensive cigarette smoke smells. My mother's boyfriend smokes. I had to sit next to him for a five-minute car ride and almost threw up because the smell seeps out of your pores. When a smoker in the family moved, we had to throw out most of her furniture, including what was once a really nice mattress, because it REEKED.
If I couldn't sit outside on my balcony, if we had to get rid of furniture or soft furnishings because you can never, NEVER get that smell out, yeah, I'd be sending letters out too.
You have no idea how bad you smell. Work out a solution that involves you smoking AWAY from your balcony, please.
I don't have any great advice about the porch-smoking situation but please, please don't move inside for your smoking. Unless you live in an air-tight, chemical research-grade condo complex, your inside smoke will seep through the vents and plumbing system (yes, the holes from wall to wall that hold pipes are not perfect) and into your neighbors' closets, cabinets and sinks. I can't tell you how disgusting it is to put on freshly-laundered clothes that smell of stale, second-hand smoke from your downstairs neighbor.
We had a nearly identical situation in our condo (small complex with adjacent balconies). Everyone owns their unit so dealing with the one smoker in the building became a contentious issue among the HOA members, most of whom were "live and let live" types (myself included).
We also went the nuisance route with the cigarette smoke because our bylaws prevented us from making our whole property smoke-free. Our HOA spent thousands of dollars on a lawyer to come up with the best solution possible and the nuisance laws and concomitant fines were the best we could do. To be fair, I had the big barking dog so I knew that implementing nuisance complaints might justifiably affect my husband and me too.
I don't think there's a great solution except to suggest that you smoke outside during down times (in the evening, early morning) when others are less likely to be outside enjoying their patios and again, that you not move the smoking inside.
I do have to agree with ckorfi....
Don't smoke inside your condo. You'll NEVER be able to sell it. However, you need to have respect for your neighbours. Your awful habit stinks and they have the right to not smell it.
I honestly have to laugh at all the people who seem to think they have the right to tell another person how to live their life...I am so sick of people telling smokers where & when they can smoke.."Cant smoke outside" "Cant smoke inside" "Cant smoke in your car" "Cant smoke while walking down the street".....Dont get me wrong I know about second hand smoke but some people are taking it to the extreme...I mean c'mon, if you're going to rant about someone 3 cars ahead of you who is smoking a cigarette then you really need to take up permanent residence in a big bubble....I get that people have asthma & get migraines, my mother is one of those people, she absolutely hates the smell of smoke, which is quite ironic since she raised 3 kids who are smokers (lol) & yes I am one of the 3 & to add injury to insult, I also have asthma. Not too mention I also live in a condo AND I have 2 pit bulls..(I believe I've covered every complaint I've seen thus far with the exception of the crying babies, which I did have at one point but now they are just loud teenagers..lol) I also have a neighbor who has bad allergies & is prone to migraines. We have lived next door to each other for at least 8 yrs & not once has my smoking on my front porch or in my house bothered her enough for her to mention it. On many occasions she'll be outside watering her flowers while I'm cleaning up my yard & we'll be talking through the fence & half the time she doesnt even realize I'm smoking a cigarette. I have an air purifier in my house & on the rare occasion that I may smoke inside while the kids are at school they cant smell a thing when they get home nor can my mother when she drops by to visit & trust me that woman can smell smoke from 2 miles away so can we please quit with the stereotyping of "all smokers".
I find it difficult to believe that one person having a cigarette outside makes anyones house smell like smoke for "hours & hours" ...unless they happen to smoking right outside your window & blowing it in, in which case your problem should be with YOUR neighbor not every other smoker in the world...
Anyone (everyone?) who thinks they know all that they need to know about secondhand smoke really should read the EPA's reports, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to read at least one of the court decisions (Google tobacco vs EPA). It's a lot to process if you don't have legal training, but the analysis and conclusion are in plain language for the most part. If you put all of your faith in biased news and commercials, well, there isn't much that can help you besides actively educating yourself with facts as they exist, and not as a layperson interprets them or a lobbyist fashions them for easy consumption.
The idea that it's impossible to control the use of gas-powered vehicles because our lives depend on them doesn't hold water. Coal production, which is how you and I and practically everyone else in the country have received electricity in our homes for generations, is shutting down because of the impact that it has on the earth. This is happening even though the result is thousands upon thousands of families with no income. America demanded a product that the coal fields supplied, and people went to work to provide it. Now that is coming to an end. The reason why we don't give up our gas-powered cars isn't because it would change everything. It's because we don't feel like it, and because nobody has made us- yet. And ponder for a moment about why nobody has made us yet. Who benefits from gas-powered vehicles? Things become important when the right group wants them to be important. Facts have little to do with regulations. Regulations are just presented as if the facts are the driving force.
Another thing worth consideration is the volume of odorless toxins that we all inhale regularly. Nobody believes that any smoke is fresh and clean. But step outside, even on a clear day, and you're breathing a volume of toxins that would astound you if you could see and smell them. Just like the germs on your toothbrush, bacteria on your countertops or the organisms on your skin that you cannot see, but are always there.
Attacking a person whom you have never met and who had a valid question is pretty darned pathetic, and it's also very telling. It's trendy to bash smokers. Then again, sitting at a keyboard makes all of us ten feet tall and bulletproof, doesn't it? The person asking the question was polite and even concluded the question with another question about whether she is wrong. Too bad the majority of people who have few authentic qualifications besides owning a computer decided that it was time to unleash their judgment and opinions on her.
Sandy: Manage your personal lifestyle however you see fit and think about getting an air purifier to reduce the odor.
I live in a condo complex where one of the attractions is the provision of large patios or balconies, and I have to say, it's really unpleasant to open the patio door to let in some fresh air on an otherwise beautiful, perhaps rain-cleared evening, only to have to smell the next door neighbor's cigarette smoke from her patio.
My feeling about smokers is: if they don't mind the smell and effect of cigarette smoke, why don't they smoke INSIDE their own units and stink up their own living spaces with the smell, rather than subjecting the rest of us to it? Honestly.
However, I don't complain about it to the neighbor, since she's an otherwise terrific neighbor, and it's an infrequent occurrence, and there's nothing in our condo regs or city regs that prohibit smoking. That contrasts with some other nearby cities that have begun banning smoking in condos.
As far as keeping the peace between smoking and nonsmoking neighbors, it's tough to know what to suggest (if the smokers smoke outside), apart from maybe using some small fans or maybe some screens or plantings to diffuse, redirect or help mask the odor. Or maybe some scented plants? It's a tough one ...
Too bad condo complexes can't be either entirely all-smoking residents or entirely no-smoking residents. Maybe then everybody'd be happy! :) ... And which category would the pot smokers fall into? ;)
p.s. Now that I've read back through the other comments, I'm really impressed by people's more helpful suggestions. It seems to me that some of the best ideas for Sandy are:
--switch to electronic cigarettes
--use an air purifier inside the unit and a purifier or a fan outside the unit, to at the very least direct smoke away from neighbors
--use a smokeless ashtray
And as far as the barking dog goes, if the condo association is no help with that (doesn't it have rules about nuisances like barking dogs?), see about buying an electronic device that discourages barking, such as this one I found on Amazon, to be used by pet owners OR neighbors:
('Scuse if this post shows up more than once; the site was allowing me to Preview but not to Post, so I hit Submit again)
Get one of those smokeless ashtrays, air purifiers or something.
Also, just because you believe it's ok to deal with someone's nuisances doesn't mean they have to return the favor.
Personally, I hate cigarette smoke. My neighbor smokes constantly on his porch, and I really couldn't give a shit about that, except he is always out there when something embarrassing happens to me.
Also, I work in a hospital where the smokers (doctors, nurses, techs, etc) really couldn't give an eff about all of the No Smoking signs: they light up right in front of them and toss the butts right on the sidewalk...then head back in to see patients.
I am pregnant and I have smoking neighbor and it is just simply unacceptable for me. i don't see how barking dogs ( I don't have a dog) can be compared to cigarette smoke which is cancer causing. It even has a radio active substance called Polonium 60. Second hand smoke is bad and I should not be suffering and neither should my unborn baby because of someone's bad habit.
It's not just that "we have to smell it", (it wouldn't bother me much if the smell came and then went away...) it's that it actually makes my apartment and my stuff stink! :( That, to me, is an actual intrusion. Just like a dog barking so much that it keeps you awake for hours is an actual intrusion. I don't really know if there's an easy answer, since I agree you should be able to relax and do what you want on your balcony, but as a non-smoker I can't staaaaand when I open the window and the smoke wafts in and I know I'm going to have to either stick with the stuffy, hot, sometimes damp air in my apartment or choose the air outside and end up having to clean everything or spray it with enzyme fluid later.
Probably sounds silly but seems like since smokers and second hand smoke have been so vilified recently, it is rather easy to hate (seems like a lot of that going on in other areas as well) and say health hazard, allergies, etc...and then it's all over for the smoker. Smoke free communities and entire cities and I want to know why can't I get this type of support for my chemical sensitivities (and I know I am not alone here). And I also know that the majority if the board will not think perfumes, colognes, soaps (or anything with a strong synthetic fragrance) is toxic or bad for the health of others forced to endure the stench. I am in an apartment community and there are so many units here with a majority of them having personal washers and dryers. And I smells like a freaking laundromat. And the smells..dear god...if I am not home and leave my windows open that stuff gets into EVERYTHING including my air conditioning system and my clothes and it takes days to weeks to get the smell out. I get watery eyes at the minimum with sneezing and full blown migraines at the worst. My friends with asthma can't be here when neighbors are doing laundry. I can't roll my windows down in traffic, can't go to the movies because of the colognes, can't enjoy the pool if someone is BBQing, but all the rest of that is someone else's right? And what do I have to do? Stay inside and shut the window. Or come home and take a shower. But if someone wants to smoke outside they have no right?
Hi, it has been awhile since people have commented. However, my heart goes out to Sandy. Personally, I am in a silent war. I am a smoker as well as most of my visitors. I don't smoke upstairs but do smoke downstairs in my garage. I am a considerate smoker, that being, I have cut down considerably because I have heard and smelled and felt (eyes) neighbors to my left (renter) and neighbors to my right (owner) spray their air fresheners for lengths at a time. Including when I arrive home before my car is completely parked. After owning my town home for over 16 yrs, I have never had a surplus of chemical spill into my place as from them. I sincerely understand smoking is nasty, unfeminine, dirty and unhealthy habit. I am not completely stupid. Only the smoking part., I was wondering how your situation is going and the results since it's been about a yr. or so? Thanks. P.S. One of the neighbors in question also has a barking dog.
Well Sandy no one has approached you about it and smoking is allowed on you open air balcony so what's the problem. Some people complain about anything and everything so cross that bridge when you come to it. In a condo setup we have to deal with some annoyances from others and that's how it is when you live in close proximity to others. People know this or should know this when they live in these type of setups.
I have the same problem with the people below me. Renters are not allowed in our building but for some reason the guy who owns the unit just rented out to 4 people who all smoke on the balcony. since the HVAC units are also on the balcony, my entire unit stinks! they all chain smoke..I have no idea when they go to work! anyway, I keep a big box fan at the ready and when they smoke, I fan Fabreeze down through that fan. The HOA will not do anything, so I've taken to doing this. They still think it's their God-given right to keep puffing! I just figure if they ever make a big enough fuss I can call the cops and hopefully these illegal renters will be thrown out!