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Guestpost: Pete Wishart on Britishness and Independence post-Miliband
What is it about Labour leaders and Britishness? Remember Gordon Brown's embarrassing attempt to redefine it?
Well, this week it was bettered by an excruciating Ed Miliband. Even at his most convoluted, Gordon Brown never tried to deny me my right to an identity. But this is exactly what Ed Miliband seemed to suggest when he said that the referendum would be a choice between Scottishness and Britishness.
Not only is this ridiculous, it is geographically impossible. That is, unless Ed Miliband intends to take his party's obsession with "separation" to a new level by building a channel across the border after independence.
Look Ed, it's quite simple – I am British because I live in the northern part of the island of Great or Greater Britain. I am British in the same way that someone from Stockholm is Scandinavian and in the same way that you are also British because you live in the Southern part of this island. It's basic geography and it is astounding you are unaware of that. You also have absolutely no right to tell me what I can call myself after independence, when I will, of course, still be both Scottish and British.
To be charitable, what Ed, in his confusion, was perhaps trying to suggest, is that I would no longer be "culturally" British because I would be changing my nationality from UK to Scottish.
This is a basic failure to understand what independence is striving to achieve. What independence will mean is that Scotland will leave the UK state with the return of currently reserved powers to the Scottish Parliament. The referendum on independence will be – or at least ought to be – about where power should reside. It has absolutely nothing to do with Britishness or Britain, just as the UK state also has nothing to do with Britishness.
Given their confusion over all of this, let's see if we can help our Unionist friends with some basic Britishness.
First of all, cultural Britishness is a good thing. It is a necessary social construct designed to describe the joint relationship of all the peoples and nations of these islands. With political union within the UK it meant a certain thing; with independence, it will mean something different. Britishness is a fluid concept – effectively meaningless but also immensely important. It can mean just about anything and that is why it is so difficult to define, hence Ed and Gordon's excruciating attempts.
Secondly, and just as importantly, Britishness is also what we have shared together on these islands. It is everything from the industrial revolution, to standing together in the world wars, to the welfare state to our fantastic rock and pop bands. All of this is as much mine as the most battle hardened unionist from the southern shires, and none of this can be un-invented. This is the social union part of Britishness and it is this that we will always share.
I actually believe that Britishness will be improved with independence because we can put a new energy into our British cultural and social ties. For example, maybe we can persuade Ireland to participate more fully in a larger idea of British isles' "Britishness". We will be building these relationships from a shared position of equality and mutual respect.
Ed Miliband, like so many other unionists, is becoming increasingly obsessed with identity, flags and nationality, and in being so, is seeking to deny us our geography and our shared culture and heritage. If this is the territory upon which the unionists want to fight the campaign, then, I'm afraid, they'll be fighting with themselves.
Posted on June 10, 2012, in Political witterings and tagged #sp4, Britain, Britishness, Ed Miliband, independence, Labour, Pete Wishart, referendum, Scottishness, United Kingdom. Bookmark the permalink. 19 Comments.
Ed Miliband must be a smart guy. He went to Oxford, Harvard, was the Treasury's chief economic adviser under Gordon Brown… but look at this nonsense he comes out with on what it means to be English
Now here was me thinking that the UK – United Kingdom was Scotland and England, the Union of the Crowns and nowt to do wi politiks and no Kings or Princes (at least no known decendents as Ireland had many "Kings" including a Bruce ( Oor' Rabs brither, no the twa eithe brithers sold for English gold and the gibbet when caught in good old Galloway) and Wales was weil a Principality. The British Isles awe o' us including Eire and GB weil-ex Eire or am a just confused because all a get is English BBC an apart frae being forelock tuggers (like far too mony Scots) they haveny a bloody clue.
Congratulations Ed…you've reduced the concept of Britishness to nothing more than a simple MacGuffin.
For the life of me, I can`t see where all this emphasis on what we will call each other is taking the debate. How on earth are these arguments going to drive forward the process of informing ordinary individuals of the kind of facts which will enable them to make a decision which reflects their real needs, hopes and ambitions.
This stooshie, for me, is no more than the unionists trying to take the debate up a cul-de-sac of unthinking,sentimental mince with the clear intention of trying to prevent people from focussing on aspects of the real debate which would make genuine differences to ordinary folks` lives. I`d even say that to engage with them in the way Pete has here lends the whole wool-pulling exercise a credibility it frankly doesn`t merit.
In my opinion, Ed Milliband made a far more powerful statement in the C4 News interview after the speech when he told Krishnan Guru-Murthy that England would be worse off "economically" if Scotland voted for independence.
This must`ve come as quite a shock to all those who still trot out the "Subsidy-Junkie" argument and, as far as I`m aware, it`s the first time any such high-ranking unionist has made such an admission so I tend to think that all these tweets,blogs and comments would have been more useful if they focussed on this one short statement rather than being diverted up this debating dead-end street.
My own thoughts on the matter of Britishness are, in part, a response to Pete Wishart's article. I suspect my views may not meet with universal approval. – http://peterabell.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/identity-and-ideology.html
"But this is exactly what Ed Miliband seemed to suggest when he said that the referendum would be a choice between Scottishness and Britishness."
Worse was to come in terms of contradictions. He went on to speak about "Englishness"!!
Surely the most important point, which both Pete and Kevin have both expressed even though they disagree, is that WE each decide who and what we are. Pete says he is British, and after independence that will not change. Kevin is not British, and that will also not change after independence.
The only problem is Ed Miliband deciding FOR us. No Ed, you don't get to decide.
Here's the killer question back to Echo: are the Manx not British? Or the Channel Islanders?
Leave Ireland out of this. And learn some history. The term "British" comes from the Romans. "Britannia" was the lands occupied by the Britons. Roughly, England and Wales today.
Scotland was Caledonia, and Ireland was Hibernia.
In more recent times England and Wales already united in a Union, became united with Scotland to form Greater Britain.
Scotland is not British, and is arguably not really Greater British either.
Ireland is unquestionably not British, no matter what a bunch of bowler hat wearing Irish descendants of English settlers in Scotland might say.
I totally agree Pete and blogged as much on Labourlist and Labour hame in response to Margaret Curran's article. Doesn't it seem incongrous that Ed should lead on the notion of his own cultural background – celebrating its fluidity, its richness, the myriad of influences which make up his cultural belongong – and yet not be able to extrapolate the concept to the necessary breadth to accomodate any construct of Scottish-Britishness ? This is quite apart from the fact that it is not in his gift or that of any politician to decide or define cultural identity – we each do that for ourselves from a unique amalgam of our own personal experiences and sense of belonging. It's not for Ed to decide who's 'in' and who's 'out' . For me , the issue is that culture and politics do not align to any great degree and certainly not to the extent that would be useful to a politician trying to craft a political message based on cultural division. How I feel about my cultural identity is really none of Ed Milliband's business no matter whether I support his party or not and his ham-fisted efforts at classification are only likely to aggrieve potential supporters. IMO Cultural belonging has always transcended politics and always will and it is simply wrong to imagine that any past, present or future political change including Independence will weaken those aspects of cultural identity that have salience because they arise from someone's sense of cultural and linguistic identity.


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Win This Possini Euro Design Bubble Cascade Table Lamp from Lamps Plus!
Holiday Giveaway 2011
Name: Possini Euro Design Bubble Cascade Table Lamp
Store: Lamps Plus
Value: $299.99
Description: A fabulous design for a narrow space or along a wall, this stylish lamp will add sparkle and drama to any room. Cascades of clear glass bubbles are suspended in strands below a black rectangular shade. Go below the fold to enter!
Note: You MUST fill out the form to be eligible to win. Posting in the Comments section is always encouraged, but will NOT qualify you for the giveaway.
Go To:
• All Holiday Giveaways: Posted daily at 11:30am & 12:30pm EST.
2011 Holiday Giveaway Rules
Please fill out the submission form in this post. You are allowed ONLY ONE ENTRY PER PERSON PER GIVEAWAY ITEM. Duplicate entries will be discarded. Entries for each posted item are open for 3 days from the date of posting (for example, if a design gift is posted at 12:00 pm EST on Monday, it will be open for entries until Thursday at 12:00 pm EST). Entries generated by script, macro or other automated means are void. Winners will be selected at random. You must be a U.S. resident, age 18 or older to enter. (Giveaway rules and regulations in other countries prevent us from offering prizes to residents outside the U.S.) Employees, partners and vendors of Apartment Therapy and their immediate family members are not eligible to enter. For complete rules, please click here.
Help Us Give Back!This year, Apartment Therapy is celebrating the spirit of giving by partnering with DonorsChoose.org for our 2011 Holiday Giveaway. Just as we're giving away something to you, you can give something back by helping us fund classroom projects around the country. Our goal is to get 500 people to donate to public school classrooms by December 16th!
AS AN AWESOME BONUS: If you give $25 or more, you'll be entered into a drawing to win a House Tour feature on Apartment Therapy—your home, your style, photographed by us and shared with our readers. Not into sharing your home? You can also gift that feature to a very worthy friend or relative! 'Tis the season for giving, after all.
>> Check out our DonorsChoose.org page now.
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Apartment Therapy - Holiday Giveaway 2011
17 Comments
My living room remodel is finally underway, and we need a lamp! This fabulous table lamp would fit right in!
So Canadians can't enter the contest? :(
AHH! This lamp would be perfect in my new room. Want!
This lamp is fabulous! It would be perfect in my living room. LOVE!!
drooling over this. I bettah win.
Love Apartment Therapy and love this lamp!
Disappointing "U.S. only" policy.
My nightstand is craving this lamp.
Covet, lust!
Out of the country posters -- make friends with someone it could be shipped to stateside and use their address, then have them send it on to you. I'm sure international shipping is the problem, here. Circumvent it!
sure, why no
This lamp is really nice!
@SherryBinNH, actually, I think the reason that it's US only is because there are different laws in each country regarding contests and giveaways, and it turns into a giant legal nightmare for companies who try to do them. It has come up every year that I've entered in the AT Holiday Giveaways, but unfortunately, it's just how it is.
Bubbly! I will toast with champange when I win this!
I just Digg this lamp it would look great in my bedroom with my white dresser. awesome pic.
I like this lamp. Its modern. Perfect fit in my room :)
I love this lamp! I love the sleek style and the bubbles. Its a wonderful design.

subset: commoncrawl


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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
For the Argent Tournament, I hit Champion with my home faction (Thunderbluff) this morning and had a few questions:
Does going back to valiant with another faction mean that I can't do the Champion Dailies? Or once I earn them, they're always there?
Also, are there still titles associated with the tourny? I remember bearing about " . . .of ___" titles (Me of Thunderbluff) and I thought you got that when you hit champion but I don't see it.
Last question: there is a daily quest to give 10g to a squire that doesn't seem to have any reward. What's up with that if we don't influence the building of the stadium?
rosencratz said...
The achievements for the tournament are under the world events tab on the achievement panel. The title achievements are still there.
For the "... of thunderbluff" titles i believe you also need to be exalted with the relevant faction.
The "Exalted Champion of ______" Achievements are followups to the regular "Champion of ______" achievements, kind of like how collecting 1000 fish doesn't appear until you've caught 500 first. If you're already Exalted, you just get both (and the title that comes from the Exalted Champion Achievement) at the same time.


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How to Help
We are glad you're interested in helping. Our dream is big, but the only way to build a house is one brick at a time. We need any kind of help, whether you are good at electronics and can give teaching time or if you can simply help raise awareness about Fundi Bots.
Donations & Sponsorships
Our most immediate need is financial, because, quite frankly, this stuff is expensive. Very expensive. If you can help us purchase and ship electronics components from different vendors, you will have saved us a ton of money, and we will be extremely grateful. Click here for more information on Donations & Sponsorships.
To see the stuff we need, download the Fundi Bots Profile + Budget (2754) then if you would like to help, drop us a line, we'll give you the details.
Other ways to help
Buy / Send us electronics components.
You can use either SparkFun, Solarbotics or Jameco, our preferred vendors. Feel free to buy us anything (related to electronics and robotics, of course), we appreciate whatever we get.
We've set up public Wishlists with Sparkfun, so you can see what we need, and let us know what you'd like to get us.
- Fundi Bots – Basic Electronics Components
- Fundi Bots – Arduino Components
- Fundi Bots – Hardware
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- Fundi Bots – Special Robotics Sensors
Buy / Send us books / Magazines, etc
There are hundreds of books we could use in our library, but we can't get them as fast as we'd like. Books like Forest M Mimms' Getting Started in Electronics and Make: Electronics (Learning By Discovery) would make a good collection. So would any book on Arduino, Programming, Human-Machine interactions, etc. Again, feel free to buy us anything (related to electronics and robotics, of course), we appreciate whatever we get. However, for more practical reasons, contact us and we'll let you know what would be immediately beneficial.
We'd like to setup a programming / application development lab interfacing with various platforms like Arduino, Android, Assembly, etc. The kind of computers we need are not high-end, so they should be in the $300 to $500 range per unit. We're looking to use Linux variants to keep everything simple and affordable. We cannot do robotics without a programming environment for the students, so this is extremely important. So far the lab has an old laptop and desktop, both of which are provided by the founder.
Help us spread this little project, and hopefully, we will get more traction from the exposure, and perhaps encourage other people to start similar clubs around Africa. You can "Like" or link to our Facebook Page, or follow us on Twitter for updates (@fundibots)
You tell us!
What can you do for us? And what can we, in return do for you? Ideas are plenty, and we grow by learning from others, so we welcome suggestions and discussions from everywhere.
Links & StuffWe've listed some useful places, contacts, friends, vendors and sponsors below. We hope you find them useful.
- The Rogue King Founder's blog. Rants and raves about everything and nothing.
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- SparkFun They sell electronics but they are also passionate tinkerers.


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May 21, 2007
Albany -- Dougherty County's property tax base may jump 30%. That's what preliminary numbers show after county-wide revaluations, but that doesn't mean your taxes will jump that much.
More than 38,000 pieces of property were part of the massive revaluation in Dougherty County. Some parcels doubled in value, like agricultural land. But residential property, went up by about 26% in value overall.
In all, there is a 30% increase in real property value, so will your taxes go up that much? It's not likely. "That's what I'm looking forward to is rolling back the millage rate and hopefully it will be fair and equitable to as many people as possible," said County Commissioner Lamar Hudgins.
But you may not necessarily think your property value is fair. So, you'll have to prove it.
"We need documentation." Luther Nicholson is the project supervisor for the revaluation process, done by the Tyler Company. He says any property owner who is worried about the new value should gather information about their home or property and bring it in for an informal hearing. "If there's a problem with your home, termites, or floors or items inside that we cannot see, then we need that."
The more information you can provide, the better off you'll be. For example, if you've been trying to sell your house for a long time with no takers, bring in that information, also if you recently bought a house for much less than the accessed value, you need to bring in that information as well.
"We want it to be equal. We don't want one person paying X amount of dollars and the person next to them in a similar home paying something totally different," said Nicholson.
Though you may be paying a different millage rate than you were before. "We'll have much more flexibility in lowering the millage rate, which I'm looking forward to do," said Hudgins.
If you're property value did increase, and you're worried about a higher tax bill you should look into possible exemptions, like Homestead Exemption which will lower the amount you're required to pay. Contact the tax office for more information.
If you think the assessed value of your property is wrong, you need to act fast. You must appeal the assessed value within 45 days of the notice being sent out. Then, a recommendation will be made to the board of tax assessors to change the value, or keep it the same.
"After an individual makes an appeal, that goes to the board of tax assessors. At the time the board of tax assessors, they will hear the recommendation from the staff. They'll also look at the documents and depending on their decision, they'll either say they agree with the staff or they'll make a change," said Tax Director Denver Hooten
If no change is made, an automatic appeal is made to the board of equalization. Ultimately your appeal can end up in Superior Court. But if you don't make an initial appeal within 45 days of your notice, you lose all rights to appeal your property value.
Feedback: firstname.lastname@example.com?subject=TaxAssessments/KC
P.O. Box 3130
Albany, GA 31706
(229) 446-1010
FCC Public File
(229) 446-4005
EEO Report
Closed Captioning


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LOUISVILLE, KY (WAVE) – A woman was killed and a man was injured after their motorcycle was involved in an accident with another vehicle.
According to MetroSafe, around 10 p.m. Tuesday, Louisville Metro police were dispatched to an accident involving a motorcycle and another vehicle at the intersection of Bluegrass Avenue and Taylor Boulevard.
Police said the woman on the motorcycle was killed and the man was transported to University of Louisville Hospital.
The identities have not been released.
No addition injuries were reported. The crash remains under investigation.
Copyright 2013 WAVE News. All rights reserved.


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General Coffee State Park
Nicholls, GA 31554
912-384-7082 | 800-864-7275
One of southern Georgia's "best kept secrets," this park is known for agricultural history shown at Heritage Farm, with log cabins, a corn crib, tobacco barn, cane mill and other exhibits. Children enjoy feeding the park's farm animals, which usually include goats, sheep, chickens, pigs and donkeys. Overnight accommodations include camping, cottages and the Burnham House, an elegantly decorated 19th-century cabin perfect for romantic getaways. Seventeen-Mile River and a boardwalk wind through cypress swamp where rare and endangered plants grow. Pitcher plants, shy Indigo Snakes and Gopher Tortoises make their homes in this wiregrass community. Birding and nature photography are exceptional. For horse lovers, the park offers 13.4 miles of equestrian trails. Ride-in campsites are primitive, offering exceptional privacy surrounded by nature. Drive-in campsites offer nearby water spigots, pit toilets, grills, fire rings and picnic tables. Stables are not provided.
Info & Amenities
Hours of Operation
Sunday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Monday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Tuesday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Wednesday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Thursday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Friday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Saturday: 7:00AM - 10:00PM
Admission & Fees
Daily ParkPass $5.00
Nature Trails
Facility Amenities
Complimentary Parking, Gift Shop, Lodging On Site, Parking on Site, Picnic Area, Picnic Shelter, Public Restrooms
General Information
Group Amenities
Bicycle, Canoe / Kayak
Suitable for Ages
All Ages
Heritage Farm Fixer-Upper: Your State Parks Day
09/27/2014 - 09/27/2014
We need your help as we tidy up the grounds, buildings and pondshore at the General Coffee State Park Heritage Farm. We will be repairing fences, working in the vegetable garden, cleaning up in the pastures, and organizing equipment. Bring work gloves and wear clothes that you don't mind getting dirty. Tools will be provided. Meet at the farm parking area.read more
Halloween Moonlight Madness
10/25/2014 - 10/25/2014
Kick off your Halloween activities with a kids carnival from 1-4 p.m at General Coffee State Park. The annual haunted house and haunted hayrides will begin at dark and run until 10 p.m.read more
Pioneer Harvest Festival
11/15/2014 - 11/15/2014
Celebrate the history of farm life in the wiregrass region of south Georgia at the parks annual festival. The day will include demonstrations of farm life, an arts and craft show, local entertainers and more.read more
Christmas on the Pond
12/13/2014 - 12/13/2014
Join us to usher in the holiday season. Visit with Santa, enjoy storytelling, hayrides, a marshmallow roast and homemade refreshments.read more


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Campanet has yet to be discovered by the mass tourist market, but due to the stunning surroundings, it is only a matter of time! Standing in the foothills of the Sierra de Tramuntana Mountains of Spain, Campanet is one of the last truly Mallorcan villages still in existence, where peaceful Balearic breaks thrive.
It is the local scenery which attracts discerning visitors to self catering Campanet accommodation. Sheer mountains plunge dramatically into the azure blue seas of the Mediterranean, with small sandy cove beaches offering the most idyllic spots to relax in the sun. Walkers will feel like they are in their own personal paradise, as the foothills of the Serra de Tramuntana are a veritable maze of trails, taking you to simply breathtaking viewpoints among the lush, green plateaus and rocky outcrops which make up the countryside. If you have a good head for heights, the rugged cliff walks will be a real treat too. The best thing is, there are a handful of atmospheric little bars in Campanet in which to get a refreshing drink after a hard day's exercise!
Campanet is not short of golf courses either. Although some of the best courses are a little distance from a holiday rental villa in Campanet, you can easily compare local courses all week if you have the use of a hire car.
Despite the town's size, fiestas are celebrated with gusto. The fiesta of Sant Victoria in July is a superb eight day extravaganza of food and music, with colourful parades and plenty of entertainment! The May Fair on the second weekend of May is worth visiting if you have an interest in agriculture too.
The Caves and underground lakes of Campanet, which are probably the most famous attraction in Campanet, are certainly worth exploring, as they are renowned for their quality of their geological formations. The caves are open 365 days a year, and there is plenty to see within them.
During your stay in Campanet rental accommodation, the draw of Mallorca's beaches will undoubtedly get the better of you! Luckily, the first-class beaches of Alcudia and Formentor are both within easy striking distance. Although these are not huge tourist beaches, there are a range of water sports options available. The snorkelling and diving options are particularly popular, and sailing of canoeing along the rugged coastline is a wonderful way to spend a day or two from your Campanet villa.
From the beginning of June until the end of October, beach lovers will be hard to prize off the beach as temperatures soar to an average monthly temperature of over 25˚C. As long as you avoid July and August, when temperatures are very warm, walking holidays thrive throughout the whole year, as even during the coldest winter months, temperatures are highly unlikely to drop below 10˚C.
Palma de Mallorca International Airport (PMI) is just 35 miles from a holiday rental in Campanet. There are few public or tourist connections to the village, which has ensured that the village remains a wonderfully unspoilt Mallorcan gem, it also means that a little effort is required in reaching your self catering Campanet property. There are plenty of fixed price taxis based at the airport though, which should charge no more than around 50 Euros.


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Eating before the fast
- p
- PotatoPuff Jul 19, 2012 08:15 AM
What will you be eating the Shabbos before Tisha b'Av? Since the fast starts at night it is important to eat well during the day/early evening. However, lots of foods won't be good to keep on the blech that late.
I'm thinking of lots of fruit and salad to load up on water... Does anyone have some more ideas?
For Shabbos lunch that day, we will have a meaty meal with cholent and flanken, pastrami, kugels, chicken cutlets. For the last meal (Shalosh Seudos) we will be having a meal I served recently for Shabbos lunch. Before Shabbos: I roasted tilapia with a bit of olive oil, garlic, cumin, salt and pepper. Prepared the avocado, cilantro, tomato salsa and toasted slices of baguette with olive oil and crushed fresh garlic. I oven poached salmon fillets with lemon and onions. I also cooked Israeli couscous and angel hair pasta. I tossed the pasta with olive oil, salt, pepper and sundried tomatoes. I also cooked yukon potatoes and tossed with mayo, pickles, onions and red pepper. On Shabbos, I served the tilapia with the avocado salsa on the baguette slices and the poached salmon with dill sauce (mayo, dill, lemon and horseradish). On the side, couscous at room temp, potato salad, and the regular shalosh seudos tuna, egg, and pasta salad.
Broadly speaking, I find a high-protein, high-fat, low-on-refined-carbs sort of meal keeps me fuller for longer, so that's what I make for pre-fast meals. Going into Tisha b'Av, I tend to do some sort of salmon (eg poached, with sour cream and dill sauce), with, say, an avocado salad, and olive oil-braised eggplant with pine nuts.
re: GilaB
I agree with Gila B. Salmon and brown rice always works for me before a fast. Both can be served at room temp. Leave out the salt and spices. Season with lemon juice and dill. Make the rice into a salad by tossing it with some veggies and pineapple if you don't want to eat it plain. Don't forget to drink lots of water over Shabbos.
re: PotatoPuff
Here's the recipe for the eggplant, which is really good: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/din...
re: GilaB
WOW...we had an extra eggplant from our CSA this week and thought it would be fun to try this recipe out. With only an hour to Shabbas, and no raisins in house, I substituted a couple quartered prunes and cooked everything in parve keilim. This dish is a KEEPER!!! Heck, I am going to adopt it in my catering menu as well. We served it hot with lamb shanks and couscous for Friday night dinner, and then as recommended with our dairy pre-fast dinner incorporating the milchigs as well. I have never been the biggest lover of eggplants, but this simple to prepare side totally stole the show. Thanks Gila!!!
re: gotcholent
I made it, too. It was wonderful. Fabulous on bread, toast, or crackers.
Thanks GilaB
re: AdinaA
Glad you enjoyed! The recipes for braised leeks and braised green beans from the same article are also wonderful.
re: cheesecake17
I rarely soak, for any eggplant recipe. I find that it doesn't really make a difference one way or the other except for the rare bitter eggplant.
ditto on the meaty kugel - plus a lot of breaded fried chicken cutlets/chicken bottoms (can easily be eaten warm or cold), cold cuts for sandwiches, and salads.
I view a pre-fast meal is an opportunity to serve dishes too rich for ordinary use, like chocolate mousse involving heavy cream. Everything involving heavy cream.
Seriously, the bottom line is no salt, high fat, and things that release water slowly (pasta, rice). Salt is a diuretic so meat, hard cheese and everything else with salt is out. But I use as much olive oil, sweet butter and cream as I like - and I like them a lot. The Turkish eggplant dish cited above where the eggplant is braised in olive oil sounds wonderful.
I'm thinking about pumpkin pie as a side dish, made with egg yolks and heavy cream.
Ripe, mashed avocado with lemon juice makes a fabulous binder for hearty salads. I'll serve a salt-free salad with pasta, beans, good tomatoes and a generous pour of olive oil for seudah slishi.
Key lime pie for dessert, or maybe chocolate mousse made with heavy cream.
re: Bacardi1
For most fast days, yes, there are exceptions made. It varies by community and level of observance too.
re: DeisCane
Must disagree on the community and level of observance thing, esp. in regard to Tisha b,'Av, which is not a fast from the Torah, and all the more so the so-called "minor fasts." If it is "extremely dangerous" to a person's health to fast, as Bacardi asks, I can't imagine any Rav in any community telling that person to fast. In fact, my Rav always emphasizes that for people in such a situation, the halacha (Jewish law) of guarding your health, which is Biblical, takes precedence over these fasts, which are not.
re: queenscook
I actually agree, queens. I was mostly couching so that the OP could understand that there's variability.
re: DeisCane
i'm sure you did, but I didn't want a non-religious Jew or non-Jew to even consider than Orthodox Judaism would expect a person to fast in a dangerous situation.
re: Bacardi1
Anyone for whom it is really "extremely dangerous" to fast is actually obligated to eat. The timing and quantity of eating varies, but is most restrictive on Yom Kippur. Regardless, fasting is never permitted if it would cause a danger to a person's life.
re: Moach018
Thanks everyone. It was just something I've always wondered about. I didn't think that fasting would be forced on someone with serious health issues, just wondered if it might put them in an uncomfortable position.
re: Bacardi1
Health and protecting our bodies is a biblical commandment that is applied in many areas of our lives including where fasting is concerned. Our nephew is a young, strapping 20-year old with a kidney disorder. You'd never know by looking at him. He drinks at regular intervals on Yom Kippur, the most stringent of all fast days, and does not fast on any fast day other than that. The specifics were set out by his rabbi in conjunction with his physicians. There are many cases like his. I asked him what his favorite pre-fast foods are and he stated "In the old days, shwarma and chips" as he is Israeli.
Watermelon Gazpacho
Seared tuna or baked Arctic char soft tacos....sour cream & pico de gallo salsa
Guacamole (glad to see I'm not alone in the pre-fast avocado fetish)
Farmers Market salad
Quiche with our very last scapes of the season.
Whatever else comes that week from the CSA=-)
Keep it low in sodium....drinks lots of water....may it be our last one of these in geulah!
Next bbq in Jerusalem! G'SHABBAS!
As with all fasts, keep salt (and alcohol) content to a minimum and drink plenty of water before hand. Salad and fruit is a wonderful way to go. While all meats (kosher at any rate) do technically have a higher sodium content, you should of course try to strike a balance regarding the enjoyment of your shabbos meals, giving an extra rinse to your meat before preparation, and prepping for the fast. At the very least, you should probably steer clear of deli meats and again, drink plenty of water and cut down a bit on caffeine consumption for a few days before the fast. Fasts are rarely as difficult as we make them out to be, but a few simple steps will make them easier.
Since I fast well, more thirsty than hungry at the end of the fast, and considering that I usually have a large shabbos lunch - you know, chollent, kuggels, kishka etc I cannot really eat a big meal for dinner, fast or no fast. I will probably focus on fruits with maybe a bowl of cereal and a slice of buttered challah. My planning is usually more for what I break the fast with than what I start the fast with.
Face it, no matter what you eat the night before, you will be hungry the next day so focus on what you will have after the fast since you will enjoy that immensely!


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Absorb life. Embrace your passion. Wield it and you'll learn to love yourself.
#aokisplayhouse week #8. Incredible night w/ my brother @afrojack! Special #afroki set happened w/ cameo by @pauloakenfold and support by @autoerotique! #pachaibiza
Go hard! @tomorrowland has officially started and today we throw our @dimmakrecs stage with the sickest lineup! My set time 6:15-7:45!! @iambennyb @borgore @djcarnage @djcoone @deorro @dirtyphonics @felixcartal @autoerotique @garmiani @joachimgarraud @keysnkrates @thechainsmokers @tonyjuniorofficial @uberjakd @yellowclaw!!!
#aokisplayhouse landed on mallorca spain at @bcmmallorca and this is what it looked like last monday! Tag your friends!!!
My Ibiza villa has the best view ever especially at 6am! #newstudio #homestudio #happydays #newinspiration
Two legends @dubfire @pauloakenfold
#aokijump #576. The Aoki X @alesso X @sunneryjames X @ryanmarciano day of #worldcup2014 jump. @ultraeurope. Poljud stadium. Split, Croatia. July 13, 2014.
Me and @alesso had our own world cup game on world cup day. #worldcup2014 #usavssweden
Party in the dj booth @alesso @sunneryjames @ultraeurope
Most epic feeling closing main stage w/ 50,000 people representing so many countries for @ultraeurope in Croatia! #poljudstadium Tag your friends!!
Aaaah!!! Unbelievable crowd in London England at Milton Keynes Bowl! So fucking epic!! Tag your friends! #edclondon
Unbelievable crowd in London England at Milton Keynes Bowl!! So fucking epic! Tag your friends!! #edclondon
"You'll never walk alone" Met the legend @stevengerrard!!!


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SOUTH ADDISON, Maine (AP) — Volunteers picking up trash in a coastal Maine community found a message in a bottle that floated down the coast from Canada.
Becky Lee of the Downeast Coastal Conservancy says she discovered the note in a plastic soda bottle as she and others cleaned up Tibbett Island off South Addison.
The note from a young Canadian girl named Taryn had been tossed in the ocean in July 2000. Lee tells the Bangor Daily News she had suspected Taryn got help from her parents writing the note about her vacation in New Brunswick, because it says she's 3 years old.
Now 15-year-old Taryn McKee, of Welland, Ontario, told the Welland Tribune that she doesn't even remember throwing the bottle, but she recalls parts of the vacation.


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Sex and the City 2 might not be so review proof after all. After a series of handbag-bashing reviews, the TV show sequel came third in the US box office chart with a luke-warm $37m opening weekend.
It was a safe, but somewhat uninspiring start for Carrie Bradshaw and co. as Sex and the City 2 stuttered to a total of $37.1m for the opening weekend Stateside.
It's a figure that leaves the movie in third place in the chart, behind the animated sequel Shrek Forever After ($57m) and Disney's video game adaptation, Prince Of Persia ($37.8).
Most worringly for the girls from New York, both of those movies were released at least a week before Sex and the City 2.
The recovery of Shrek's fourth movie can be partly attributed to the holiday season. With kids off school, Shrek was always likely to fare better in its second week, but even with that in mind, theatrical takings across the board were down year-on-year ($182m this year compared to $213m for the same period last year), implying that cinemagoers are not impressed with the movies currently on release.
Meanwhile, SATC 2 studio Warner Bros. insisted that the ticket sales would pick up as women would "choose to watch it during the week", apparently rather than during the opening weekend. Ticket sales for opening weekends have become the focus for studios in recent years, so it'll be interesting to see if Carrie and co. recover.
As it stands, SATC2 has taken $78m worldwide, a paltry total compared to the original movie's final haul of $415m.


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Evan Gordon scored a season-high 26 points and had the crowd chanting his name in Indiana's 81-54 rout of Oakland on Tuesday night.
The senior guard added five rebounds and shot 10-of-12 from the field to help the Hoosiers improve to 8-2 with their second straight victory.
Troy Williams scored 13 points, Yogi Ferrell had 10 and Noah Vonleh finished with eight points and 10 rebounds as the Hoosiers shot 50 percent from the field. Indiana extended its nonconference home winning streak to 36.
Oakland (2-8) lost its 11th straight away from home. The Golden Grizzlies started 0-7 against a difficult schedule that included North Carolina, UCLA, California and Gonzaga. It won't get easier. They next face No. 5 Michigan State on Saturday.
Gordon made his first eight shots, one shy of matching a school record, before Oakland center Corey Petros blocked a layup.
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The Congo Tetra has opalescent scales that shine in all the colors of the rainbow!
The Congo Tetra Phenacogrammus interruptus is timid, but an incredibly beautiful fish. It is the most gorgeous of the true African Characins. Its body has luminescent rainbow colors and its dorsal, anal, and tail fin develop into the most beautiful feathery appendages.
This is a peaceful schooling fish with males that can reach up to over 3 inches (8.5 cm) in length. A group of these good sized fish need a large aquarium, not only to provide plenty of room to swim around, but to thrive and develop their full beauty as well.
The Congo Tetra prefers soft, peat filtered water and a darker substrate. They are most comfortable in an aquarium with lower light levels which can be provided by floating plants. The beautiful rainbow colors of this fish will also show off best in lower light levels. These fish are easily frightened by aggressive tank mates and loud noises. Do not tap on the glass! These fish are also timid eaters and may wait for you to leave the aquarium before they will feed.
For Information on keeping freshwater fish, see:
Freshwater Aquarium Guide: Aquarium Setup and Care
- Size of fish - inches: 3.4 inches (8.51 cm)
- Minimum Tank Size: 40 gal (151 L)
- Temperament: Peaceful
- Aquarium Hardiness: Moderately hardy
- Temperature: 73.0 to 82.0° F (22.8 to 27.8° C)
- Aquarist Experience Level: Intermediate
- My Aquarium - Enter your aquarium to see if this fish is compatible!
- Beginner Fish - Freshwater fish for beginners
- Community Fish - Peaceful Freshwater fish
- Hardy Fish - Hardy Freshwater fish
- Similar size fish - Fish that are 1 inch bigger or smaller
- Coldwater Fish - Looking for cold water fish? (65 °)
Habitat: Distribution / Background
The Congo Tetra Phenacogrammus interruptus was described by Boulenger in 1899. This species is listed on the IUCN Red List as Least Concern (LC) as it has a wide population and no major widespread threats. They are found in Africa, in the Zaire River region of the upper Congo Basin which is slightly acidic and murky waters. They swim in schools and feed on worms, crustaceans, insects and plant matter.
- Scientific Name: Phenacogrammus interruptus
- Social Grouping: Groups
- IUCN Red List: LC - Least Concern
The Congo Tetra has a full-bodied typical tetra shape with rather large scales. The male will reach about 3 1/3 inches (8.5 cm) in length and the female will reach about 2 1/3 inches (6 cm). They have a lifespan of between 3 to 5 years in the home aquarium.
When mature, the fluorescent colors of the Congo Tetra run through the fish from front to back starting with blue on top changing to red through the middle, to yellow-gold, and back to blue just above the belly. The fins are grayish violet with white edges.
- Size of fish - inches: 3.4 inches (8.51 cm) - The males get up to 3.5 inches (8.9 cm). Females up to 2.75 inches (6 cm).
- Lifespan: 5 years - They have a life span of about 3 - 5 years in the aquarium.
The Congo Tetra is moderately hardy and suggested for a fish keeper with some experience. Be careful picking tankmates as this peaceful long finned tetra is often a target of attacks which can stress it out and the injuries can lead to diseases and death.
- Aquarium Hardiness: Moderately hardy
- Aquarist Experience Level: Intermediate
In the wild the Congo Tetra feeds primarily on insects, but also eats worms, crustaceans, insects and plant matter. Since they are omnivorous the Congo Tetra will generally eat all kinds of live, fresh, and flake foods. To keep a good balance give them a high quality flake food everyday. Feed brine shrimp (either live or frozen) or blood worms as a treat. It is best to feed several times a day and only what they can consume in 3 minutes or less at each feeding.
- Diet Type: Omnivore - In the wild these fish are primarily insectivores but can usually be trained to take live foods, large flakes, and pelleted foods.
- Flake Food: Yes - Provide large flakes.
- Tablet Pellet: Yes
- Live foods (fishes, shrimps, worms): Some of Diet
- Vegetable Food: Some of Diet
- Meaty Food: Some of Diet
- Feeding Frequency: Several feedings per day
Congo Tetras are not exceptionally difficult to care for provided their water is kept clean. Aquariums are closed systems and regardless on size all need some maintenance. Over time decomposing organic matter, nitrates, and phosphate build up and the water hardness increases due to evaporation. To combat these ever changing conditions water should be replaced on a regular basis, especially if the tank is densely stocked. At least 25 - 50% of the tank water should be replaced every other week.
- Water Changes: Bi-weekly
The Congo Tetra has been successfully kept and even bred in aquariums as small as 20 gallons. It's commercially bred in huge numbers so it is adaptable and will thrive in most well-maintained tanks. But because they really need to be kept in schools of at least six fish, an aquarium that is at least 40 gallons or larger is recommended. Water should be on the acidic side of neutral and soft with good circulation. Using dim lighting will develop the tetras best coloring.
To get the best out of this fish, set up a biotype tank. These fish prefer some plant cover and a darker gravel. It does look particularly effective in a heavily-planted setup and can appear a little washed out the decor is too sparse. For the substrate use a river sand with some drift wood and twisted roots. Add some dried leaves to the tank, which will stain the water a light brown, and then replace leaves every few weeks.
- Minimum Tank Size: 40 gal (151 L) - This fish should be kept in groups of at least six and requires plenty of swimming space.
- Suitable for Nano Tank: Sometimes
- Substrate Type: Any
- Lighting Needs: Low - subdued lighting - Low lighting and a shadowy tank set up will bring out the best coloration on this fish.
- Temperature: 73.0 to 82.0° F (22.8 to 27.8° C)
- Range ph: 6.0-7.5
- Hardness Range: 4 - 18 dGH
- Brackish: No
- Water Movement: Moderate
- Water Region: All - These fish will swim in all areas of the aquarium.
They are generally a good community fish but they may try to bite smaller fish. Also, watch that they don't eat your smaller plants. They sometimes like to nibble on softer plants and young shoots. Best tank mates for this fish are other tetras, rainbowfish, Corydoras, Loricariids, Synodontis, and some peaceful Cichlids. Do not keep Congo Tetras with fish that are known to nip fins as male Congo's will be injuried.
- Venomous: No
- Temperament: Peaceful
- Compatible with:
- Same species - conspecifics: Yes
- Peaceful fish (): Safe - This fish has a very timid temprament and should not be housed with aggressive or fin nipping fish.
- Semi-Aggressive (): Threat
- Aggressive (): Threat
- Large Semi-Aggressive (): Threat
- Large Aggressive, Predatory (): Threat
- Slow Swimmers & Eaters (): Safe
- Shrimps, Crabs, Snails: Safe - not aggressive
- Plants: Monitor - They may snack on soft plant matter and new shoots.
The male is larger with more color, also the tail fin and dorsal fin are more extended. If you look at the picture above, you can see the extension at the center of the tail fin. A mature female will be more rounded.
Photo © Animal-World
The Congo Tetras are egg layers. Some keys to breeding them is to provide a large aquarium with peat filtered water and bright lighting to initiate spawning. They will lay up to 300 eggs that will drop to the bottom. The fry are large enough to eat freshly hatched brine shrimp. For a description of breeding characin fish, see Breeding Freshwater Fish: Characins.
- Ease of Breeding: Moderate - Getting a pair to spawn is moderately difficult. The morning sun will initiate a pair to spawn in more shallow water. The parents should be removed after spawning.
The Congo Tetras are fairly hardy and disease is not usually a problem in a well maintained aquarium. However they are prone to developing ick if kept in colder temperatures. Also anything you add to your tank can bring disease. Not only other fish but plants, substrate, and decorations can harbor bacteria. Take great care and make sure to properly clean or quarantine anything that you add to an established tank so not to upset the balance.
A good thing about Congo Tetra is that due to their resilience, an outbreak of disease can often be limited to just one or a few fishes if you deal with it at an early stage. When keeping more sensitive types of fish, it is common for all fishes to be infected even before the first warning signs can be noticed. The best way to proactively prevent disease is to give your fish the proper environment and give them a well balanced diet. The closer to their natural habitat the less stress the fish will have, making them healthier and happy. A stressed fish is more likely to acquire disease.
As with most fish the Congo Tetras are prone to skin flukes, parasitic infestations (protozoa, worms, etc.), ichthyobodo infection, parasitic infestations (protozoa, worms, etc.), bacterial infections (general), and bacterial disease. It is recommended to read up on the common tank diseases. Knowing the signs and catching and treating them early makes a huge difference. For information about freshwater fish diseases and illnesses, see Aquarium Fish Diseases and Treatments.
The Congo Tetra is readily available but is more expensive than many tetras.
- Animal-World References: Freshwater Fish and Plants
- Dr. Rüdiger Riehl and Hans A. Baensch, Aquarium Atlas Vol. 1, Publisher Hans A. Baensch, 1991
- Glen S. Axelrod, Brian M. Scott, Neal Pronek, Encyclopedia Of Exotic Tropical Fishes For Freshwater Aquariums, TFH Publications, 2005
- Joseph S. Nelson, Fishes of the World, Wiley, 2006.
- Marc Ladonne, Aquarium Fish , Barnes Noble, 1999
- Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod, Aquarium Fishes of the World, TFH Publications, 1998
- Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod, Dr. Warren E Burgess, Dr. Cliff W. Emmens, Neal Pronek, Jerry G. Walls, Ray Hunziker, Dr. Axelrod's Mini-Atlas of Aquarium Fishes, Mini- Edition, T.F.H. Publications, Inc., 1987
- Phenacogrammus interruptus (Boulenger, 1899) Congo tetra, Fishbase.org
- Phenacogrammus interruptus, The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species
|- 2012-02-22
|- 2005-01-02
|- 2004-11-28
|- 2010-09-09
|- 2010-02-27


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ANIMAHENASYON will be held in my school next week! I'm going to overload myself with all the seminars they'll have scheduled. Yehey knowledge!
I hope I'll get a chance to also watch the foreign animations that will be shown for free at the school's cinema. That one is part of another event. I really wanna see the films from France and I think there are some from Spain ^ ^
More info @ AnimahenasyonPilipinas


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We hear it all the time that our kids are so obese but Time magazine had two new numbers Wednesday that I had never seen before.
Buried under a story about getting kids to eat fish (which we will discuss later) were these crazy stats on childhood obesity.
FACT No. 1: "According to new USDA data, students who eat a federally funded school lunch are likelier to be overweight than those who don't. But surprisingly, those who also get a federally funded school breakfast are at lower risk. The numbers were drawn from a survey of 13,500 kids, and while USDA officials are sure of the findings, they're not yet"
One likely source of trouble is surely that a portion of the federally funded lunch menu comes from government surplus, which means that some meals may be based as much on what's available as what's nutritious. That's not to say that plenty of federal lunches do not meet good fat, calorie and nutrition guidelines. But in those cases, the very wholesomeness of the meals may be turning kids off, pushing them to buy a la carte items (also known as junk food) that cafeterias sell as a badly needed source of income."
"School breakfasts, by contrast, may not qualify as spa food, but they do include whole grains, fruits, fruit juices, cereal and yogurt, and they're served at a time of day when the French fryer and the pizza oven are not yet fired up and cranking out unhealthy alternatives. A child who eats well in the morning may be less likely to gorge at noon, providing a better nutritional balance overall."
So maybe they should serve breakfast at lunch time. Last year, the kids' school did breakfast for lunch several times a month. Maybe it's easier to make nutritious and the kids accept that kind of food?
What are you packing in their lunches that is better for them than what the schools are serving?? (Seriously I need some ideas. Rose isn't buying lunch for the first time and I am struggling to send her anything interesting. Meanwhile Walsh must be having a growth spurt because he is buying and a lunch every day and I am sending him a lunch as well and he is eating both! The kid is hungry!)
Fact No. 2 — So what was the obesity rate when we were kids in the 1970s? I've never seen this number before!! Five percent was the rate in the 1970s for kids compared to 19 percent now, according to Time magazine. (Adults are at 27 percent now.)
Wow, that's a huge increase. So what has changed between the 1970s to now?
Less freedom to wander and play outside?
Increase in soda and fast food consumption?
The invention of home video games?
What else has changed that would contribute to this??
So what do you make of these numbers? Why lunches so much worse for the kids than breakfast food? What are you serving for lunches that is healthier? How can we recreate the 1970s obesity rates?
August 26th, 2010
2:15 am
In the book NurtureShock by Bronson and Merryman, there is a study that links some of the increase in obesity to the lower number of hours of sleep kids have been getting since the 70's. Not getting enough sleep turns off some of your body's fat burning mechanisms, increases mechanisms that store fat, causes you to not process glucose as well, causes you to be more hungry and less able to sense being full. These and other affects can lead to obesity and eventually to diabetes as adults. The researcher claimed that lack of sleep is more strongly linked to the increase in obesity than the rise of videogames.
(Here I am awake at 2 am so I obviously haven't heeded this study as well as I should have…)
August 26th, 2010
4:35 am
Funny about the lack of sleep – or not really. I was woken up at 4 by a screaming toddler wanting first a tissue and then her duckie. This is the third night in a row I've been woken up during the night & I'm about to lose it. Grrr. Anyway, I think the problem for kids being overweight has a lot to do with parents – not making them go to bed at a decent hour, not enough involvement overall. Maybe if parents spent more time helping their children choose better (healthier) foods, then kids would know how to pick the better choice at school. Well, going to try & get some sleep before I get woken up again. I hope tomorrow is better than yesterday.
August 26th, 2010
5:45 am
As mentioned previously, I see a lot of different school lunches. To me, we are lucky in Gwinnett County GA as our lunches are colorful and have a variety of healthy food. I rarely fixed my kids a lunch….they ate what was at school or fixed their lunch themselves. They both love the food at UGA. I do too!
When I was in ES, we did not have a lunch room. Once a month, we had a special day where the Moms would bring the lunch…the menu: hot dogs, chocolate frosted donuts, a bag of chips and a little bottle of Coke ( the kind you had to pop the top off of with a can opener). TRUTH
We know more about things than we used to.
Catlady brought me some fresh eggs, when we had lunch. My daughter ( after a Food Science class at UGA) asked me if they were pasteurized. I chuckled. I ate eggs on our farm for years but YES we are learning more and more each day about the food we eat and SHE will know lots more than me. I probably need to watch out!
I am also all for children needing their sleep and exercise too! Thanks for the reminder.
August 26th, 2010
6:42 am
I think the more relevant statistic isthat kids are less active today than when I was growing up. We ate ANYTHING but were so active it didn't matter.
August 26th, 2010
7:05 am
@ Jeff…my daughter is eating anything at UGA and climbing 4 flights of stairs to her dorm room.
We think she may avoid the freshman 15! Their food service has won 73 national awards and I wish I could eat there!
August 26th, 2010
7:43 am
My daughter took her lunch to school almost every day, up until high school. We always made it the night before, so we didn't have to rush in the mornings. She always had a sandwich, chips, fruit and she would buy a carton of milk at school.
August 26th, 2010
7:50 am
Do you really think it's the food or the lack of physical activity? PE was required in the 70's and recess twice a day in the lower grades. If we stayed inside on the weekends out parents would make us do chores so as soon as we were up we were outside with friends running, playing, riding bikes, or just walking.
My daughters too took their lunch to school everyday but only because they were such picky eaters.
August 26th, 2010
8:03 am
Anyone want to tackle this question….
What causes picky eaters?
Did we have as many picky eaters 35 years ago? We ate what was offered or went without.
Here is an interesting link:
Off to school…have a great morning everyone!
August 26th, 2010
8:06 am
Kids today get much less exercise than we did in the 80's. I remember rushing home to get my homework done so that I could outside and play. We played outside all summer long. We had nintendo, but it wasn't nearly as addictive as video games have become today. We also had recess every single day. I remember only getting PE once a week, however we had recess daily. We actually had MONKEY BARS and the kindergarten playground had a see-saw. Kids got hurt. You scraped your knee, but you jumped back up and started playing again. No threats of lawsuits like today. I keep my kids active by making sure that each of them plays sports regularly. I even try to play with them from time to time and my hubby plays basketball with my son almost every day. Just get the kids up out of the desks and out of the house and the obesity rate will drop.
August 26th, 2010
8:18 am
My daughter packs her own lunch in the morning. I just inspect it. This morning she had celery sticks, a green apple, a sandwich (ham,gouda cheese, tomato, whole wheat bread), and one juice box. For a snack she packed some cheese crackers. She is doing much better than what's available at school, especially if I make a farmer's market run. The typical lunch for my 2nd grader's Gwinnett school includes; flavored milk(most kids chose choc.), a frozen fruit juice object(high fructose), chips, main course, and a veggie. One day I calculated that there was as much sugar on a typical lunch plate as 2 Hershey bars. Wonder if all of this sugar contributes to afternoon hyperactivity. Granted, I am glad to see fresh vegetables offered.
August 26th, 2010
8:23 am
Likely it is combo of many things. School lunch regs are much the same as in 80s. The carb ratio alone is staggering. School & home use more processed and frozen food. Schools moved to a more fast food menu when they lost $ to kids opting not to buy but bring lunch w/that kind of food. We also don't eat by season. Meat is brought to market cheaper & faster so more eat it 3 times a day. Not to mention hormones in food. Soda etc is no longer considered a treat by some. I kee wondering if current econ will show a change in obesity rate.
My kids are under weight & one is showing signs of eating disorder. Will get w/dr on that of course.
August 26th, 2010
8:31 am
I send a lunch with my son everyday. This morning he left with a turkey sandwich, string cheese, gold fish crackers and a blueberry yogurt. I do think that kids don't get the amount of exercise we got as children. We just put a no tv rule in place during the week with the hope that they will play outside more. I do think it is important for kids to be involved in some type of sports activity. My daughter plays tennis a few days a week and my son is in karate a few days a week. I am even trying to convince them that running with me at the park will be "fun!"
August 26th, 2010
8:39 am
I never understood why they took recess and PE out of the schools. We had recess twice a day, and right after lunch. This was in Colorado, and we went out for recess every day, even in the snow. If the weather was too bad, there was Dodge ball in the gym or some other physical activity. We NEVER sat idle…..keep moving.
August 26th, 2010
8:40 am
It's a combination of things (food choices, lack of activity, availability of junk food, etc.) but I do find it interesting that this is directly linked to school lunches. In the article it states "federally funded school lunches" – are all school lunches in public schools federally supported? Just curious if there are some that are not and if there is a difference between school lunch that have federal support and those that do not.
August 26th, 2010
8:41 am
My kids were exclusively breastfed and they're fine. Maybe there's a correlation between infant formula and obesity…
August 26th, 2010
8:43 am
I don't think its any ONE thing, but rather a combination of less exercise, video games, internet, and diet.
The biggest dietary changes from then to now are in processed foods. There were less options for these items then. And some time ago, food processors stopped using sugar and started using High Fructose Corn Syrup. All the research isn't in on that, but I try to avoid HFS.
The EASIEST calories to rid yourself of are in your drinks. No need to ever drink a soda.
If you drink coffee, drink it black. If you drink alcohol, watch your mixers.
But really, water is the only beverage you ever really need.
August 26th, 2010
8:47 am
Mine too his lunch every day up through high school; cheaper and better.
Kids today are fat porkers, but so are mom & dad:
- over-protective parents who won't let their kids outside to play out of fear the boogyman will steal them.
- mom and dad using the video game as a baby sitter
- mom and dad using the television as a baby sitter
- mom weighs over 200 pounds and dad hasn't seen his feet in years b/c of his belly
- mom and dad don't care how fat they are so they keep the house packed full of junk food
- mom and dad's refusal to notice their little kid is pumping up like the Goodyear blimp and do nothing about it
- smart people breed smart children
- morons reproduce more morons
- fat mom and dad pop out even fatter children
August 26th, 2010
9:07 am
kids need to exercise more. we had recess where we played games of our choosing….kick ball-red rover-keep away, etc…then we also had gym where we did organised games. there were also sports we were involved in. i see kids at recess these days sitting on the monkey bars….sitting on any of the equipment..not playing…just sitting and talking. kids come home from school…grab a snack and go to the computer or the game consoles. we had to have gym it was a required class for almost every grade. plus we didnt have tv games or computers. when we got home we hit the neighborhood usually on our bikes or walking…..we hit the woods. i understand the world is a little scarier today. but we would dissapear for hours and yes my mom was home but she knew we were in the neighborhood she just didnt know where…and it was ok as long as we were home by supper time. if not we were killed! LOL.. kids have got to have exercise….the playing kind and the organised kind. i really dont think it has everything to do with what they eat,,..i think it has 99% to do with what they DO…or DONT do…and it has to do with the fact that people dont even know their neighbors….our whole neighborhood knew all of us kids. ive seen neighborhoods in ga (my daughter lives there) where no one even knows the people next door. i think a this has a lot to do with the fact that kids cant just go roam the neighborhood anymore…
August 26th, 2010
9:08 am
The biggest difference is that kids are not as active these days -that causes the higher obesity rates. However, look at your school lunch menu compared to the breakfast menu. I always pack my son's lunch and the choices from the cafeteria are carb upon carb, but even though the breakfasts are carb-heavy, they are often lower fat carbs and overall much healthier (instead of cheese-laden greasy burritoes, think low-fat waffles with yogurt and berries). Kids also have longer to burn off their breakfasts than they do lunch.
August 26th, 2010
9:29 am
We eat very healthy in my house. Fresh veggies, fresh fruit and home cooked meals every single night, with the rare occasion of going out. Going out to us is a treat.
We have gotten so busy with life, that nutrition is not important to most families. Oh, you will hear Moms complain about how they are so busy they don't have time to cook a nutritious meal, so just hit McDonalds drive through and eat in the car. ICK ICK ICK.
We "throw down" with the neighbors every Sunday afternoon. We cook so much food on his grill that it lasts both families at least 3 – 4 days. And it's not one particular item. We throw pork chops, hamburgers, steaks, sausage and veggies on the grill, then pack most of it up for Monday, Tuesday and possibly Wednesday for leftovers. No ovens are on, we are outside at the grill. Then we can re-heat everything up in the microwave during the week.
August 26th, 2010
10:15 am
MJG…if the UGA food services follows the pattern it did 20 years ago, the food is actually pretty good at the beginning of fall quarter (semester now, I know) and then steadily declines until by Christmas you're eating Gumby Dammit pizza specials 2-3 meals a day.
August 26th, 2010
10:27 am
There is no doubt that the rate of childhood and adult obesity is on the rise, but I can't help but think the numbers may be a little exaggerated, or at least misleading. One big difference between today and the 1970s is that children's weights, or BMI's (if such a thing even existed in those days), were not scrutinized like they are today. When I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s, unless a kid was obviously obese, no one, at least outside of their family, really made an issue over their weight. As a person who was somewhat larger than average as a kid, although not obese, I'm truly grateful that there wasn't so much emphasis put on children's weight back then. My mother was freaked out enough about my size, I can't even imagine what would have happened if a doctor or teacher had told her I was in danger of becoming obese. If my experience is any indication (I am a very active person and have been slightly underweight most of my adult life), just because a person is a little heavy as a kid, does not necessarily mean they are inactive, have bad eating habits or that they are going to grow up to be obese. Some kids are just bigger than others and making insensitive, and sometimes unnecessary, remarks about their size, even with the best of intentions, can be extremely hurtful to their self-esteem. Instead of trying to form weight or BMI guidelines that will apply to every single child, teach kids good eating habits and to find sports and other physical activities they enjoy and any weight problems they may have will work themselves out. By focusing so much on weight we may be creating more problems, as in eating disorders, than we solve.
August 26th, 2010
10:38 am
my oldest son has always been very slim…all of a sudden he has rolls of fat around his waist and i got a little worried…then a month later he was 4 inches taller and back to his slim self..
August 26th, 2010
10:42 am
@SJ…..my kid was exclusively fed on formula and no breast milk (mom's never came in) and he's perfectly fine, so there goes your well thought out scientific hypothesis.
August 26th, 2010
11:18 am
@Tiger -hear hear! The lactation Nazis (and I don't mean everyone who breastfeeds, but I DO mean the ones who act like you're committing child abuse if you don't) have been trying to get this going for years -that formula fed babies are fat kids. Simply not true! In fact, the one truly obese child I know personally was breast fed for almost 2 years. MY theory is that she was so freaking excited to get real table food for all three meals that now she just can't get enough ;-)
August 26th, 2010
11:19 am
@PicknNits -OMG, I had completely forgotten about Gumby's Pizza in Athens! SOooooo many late night meals, and it was always awful unless you were completely blitzed out of your mind! If they weren't in a college town, I think they would have gone out of business 20 years ago!
August 26th, 2010
11:22 am
@JATL, Amen sister! I tried to post something about the lactation nazis myself, but my post hasn't showed up yet.
August 26th, 2010
11:27 am
the battles of breast fed vs bottle fed and working moms vs stay at home moms will never end. it would be awesome of all moms could breast feed if they want to and stay home instead of going to work every day. but alas its not gonna happen. and its ok. really.
August 26th, 2010
11:29 am
My kids were formula babies and neither one was overweight as children or now as adults. They both played outside a lot and continue to have active lifestyles as adults.
August 26th, 2010
12:30 pm
@motherjanegoose – okay..okay.. we get it. You had lunch with catlady the other day. Is there a reason you keep bringing it up? It's like you're trying to point out that someone on the blog likes you. We all know you're a nice lady and have friends. You don't need to keep pointing it out!
August 26th, 2010
1:07 pm
@MJG – You're right on target regarding picky eaters. My nieces and nephews have parents that act as short order cooks and routinely make separate meals for the kids. At home, the kids are extremely picky and refuse to eat many foods. When they visit me, I cook one meal and they can eat it or go hungry. They regularly eat foods at my house that they refuse at home.
@JJ – We do the same thing with the grill or the smoker, although not always with the neighbors, and pop the meats and grilled veggies into the refrigerator or freezer for easy reheating. The food goes in lunches, snacks and dinners for the next few days. It makes life a lot easier on the busy evenings.
August 26th, 2010
1:19 pm
My daughter was breast fed for 2 months, then on formula until she started solid foods at about 10 months. She is a tad overweight, but not much……how's that for the theory?
August 26th, 2010
1:35 pm
@JJ…conclusive evidence….that you daughter breastfed for 2 months, then went on formula for 10, and is a tad overweight. That's about it though.
August 26th, 2010
2:00 pm
@MJG & Warrior Woman..My two will try just about anything..Those are my rules..I also make sure that they know, just because I don't like it, doesn't mean that they shouldn't try it..No short order cooking here..Have a coworker with a 4 year old that will only eat chicken nuggets and pizza..Then she wants to tell me that my two are spoiled because they eat crab legs, shrimp, steak, all veggies, and love most all cheeses..
Not sure for others, but at the school where my two go, most of the kids don't even eat a 1/3 of the lunches that they get, so I'm leary of this study..And, I guess I miised it, but which kids are more prone to be overweight, breastfed or bottle fed? I only have one sister that breastfed (twins and single)..All of her kids are skinny..One of her boy's is 33 years old and has a 30 inch waist..
@Corrin..I would of loved to have been at lunch with MJG & catlady when the fresh eggs were handed out..Sounds like catlady has a great supply of fresh food..Can't say that I have ever had fresh eggs though..
Later, am off now to have homemade buttermilk pie for dessert..Yummy..
August 26th, 2010
2:43 pm
Corrin…good to have you…did you mention something on topic or just wanted to take a swat at me?
Becky, are you sure you want to meet me next week…I do not want you to feel like you are forced into being my friend.
We had Barred Rock ( sp?) chickens on our farm, when I was a girl I thought I recognized the type of hens that lay the brown eggs, I was given on Saturday. As a girl, we also drank fresh milk withe the cream on top….anyone else? Actually, we would pick fresh blackberries ( in season) and put them in the freezer. When frozen, we would pour the fresh cream on top ; BLACKBERRY ICE CREAM….YUM!
I breastfed both of mine…my son was chubby but has since lost 40 pounds. My daughter is a size 6.
@PickinNitsThe chefs are UGA are phenomanal (sp?). Our son loved the food AFTER four years. As mentioned, they have won all sorts of awards. You can check out this link:
The food I ate in college WAS AWFUL…30 years ago!
@tiger…none of my business but as someone who breastfed a 10 pound and 8 pound infant….it takes a while for your milk to come in. I finally felt comfortable after 2 months. It is a commitment some can make and some cannot….for whatever reason.
Many women tell me they gave up after 2 weeks. To me, that is not long enough to get the hang of it. Again, everyone has to do what works for them. My Pediatrician told me that I would not have enough milk to breastfeed my son. I told him to give me 2 weeks and we will see what happened. We were both fine but it took me longer to get in sync with supply and demand.
August 26th, 2010
2:44 pm
MJG – to answer your question about picky eaters, I was one. WAS, still am a little, but I'm more willing to try new things now, especially since I love to cook so much and try new recipes.
As a kid, I would not eat anything red…tomatos, ketchup, red peppers, etc. I still can't eat a tomato, and I've tried NUMEROUS times. However, we made some fried green tomatos and I ate about 20 slices they were delicious. Red, yellow & Green Peppers don't like me. But I can eat jalapeno peppers with the best of 'em (go figure).
I didn't like chinese food as a kid. My entire family would order it, and I'd have a TV dinner. Now I love the stuff!!!
I still don't like raw onions. I have started to cook with them, I can tolerate them cooked. I actually grilled some the other night, and they were pretty good. But I still can't eat a raw one. I accidentially bit into a red onion in a salad the other day at lunch and I tasted it all day long. It took a bottle of wine to get the taste out of my mouth..LOL.
I won't touch mushrooms. You will NEVER see me eat a mushroom. My daughter used to pick them out of the chinese food when she was about 2 and she loved them. But now she can't stand them…..
August 26th, 2010
3:00 pm
@ JJ…you reminded me of a college room mate who would eat a raw onion like an apple….YES!
I have loved fresh mushrooms since I was a kid. When I was in Iowa, they told me about some delicate mushroom they call "shrooms"…you look for them in the woods and there are not many. I learn new things all the time!
I will really eat most anything once. I do not like: rutabaga (sp?) liver ( only braunschweiger…did you see that post I put about it being served on the salad bar in a restaurant?) I am not a big french fry eater but I love onion rings, I LOVE fresh tomatoes ( re: catlady) I do not like squid, octopus or really even calamari…pass on lobster too. I will eat oysters.
It would be fine with me if I never drank another Coke for the rest of my life but I gotta have my coffee( sweet and low) and sweet tea.
My son was not a big veggie eater, as a child. We used to joke that potato chips counted as veggies, for him. He went to my sister's house one time and she has a HUGE garden. He called me in tears, as my sister told him they were eating salad and what kind of dressing does he like?
I told him RANCH and also that he would have to eat whatever they ate there, if he wanted to visit his cousins ( including oatmeal and not grits). He now eats an omelet all the time with fresh spinach…he buys it in a big bag…I love it!
August 26th, 2010
3:19 pm
Oh and my mother was NOT a short order cook. If I didn't like what she was making, I had to fix myself a sandwich, or go without. But I still had to be at the dining room table with my family for the meal, whether I ate or not.
August 26th, 2010
3:19 pm
@MJG…..you know…I usually give you the benefit of the doubt, and as much I am generally endeared to you, impugning my wife's "commitment", as you put it, is quite frankly, just a little offensive.
I'm glad my wife didn't stick to her "commitment" guns, because I would have had a dead baby and an insane wife.
He was delivered at 6 lbs 8 oz, we took the kid in to the doctor a week after being born, and he weighed in at 5 lbs 5 oz. It wasn't an issue of her comfort, it was an issue of her production. The doctor told us he was literally starving. So there is exhibit "A" to her "commitment"…..to feel so obligated to breastfeed that we overlooked his well being. He's our only child, it was all new to us.
She's 5′ 0″ and tops the scales at 100 lbs (think Eva Longoria or Kelly Ripa frame…but in my own opinion WAY hotter than either of those hacks)…got to about a buck twenty five or so during pregnancy. The doctor ordered the kid on formula immediately and had her pump and monitor her production for the next 6 weeks. At the end of the schedule she quite simply didn't have the production to sustain a small human's life. So as much as I appreciate your "commitment" in spite of the discomfort, to imply that my wife (or any other woman) just doesn't share the "right stuff" that you apparently had is pretty presumptuous, and frankly, an incorrect assumption based shearly on your own experience.
August 26th, 2010
3:23 pm
Wasn't a picky eater as a child and don't consider myself one now..As JJ said, will try just about anything..Love fresh tomatoes, peppers and yeah onions..Cannot stand mushrooms and I have tried them cooked several ways..Don't think that I've ever met a potato that I didn't like..lol..Growing up, my Mother bought potatoes in a 50 lb. bag weekly..
Not sure that I have ever tried squid or octopus, but I do like calamari..Like fresh spinach, not cooked..Remember wehn I was about 9-10, we would go out into my aunt's garden and pick cucumbers. tomatoes, peppers and green beans and eat some of them right there..Ahhh, those were the good old days..
@MJG..Yes, I am looking forward to meeting you next week..Trust me, I am not being forced into anything, so again am looking forward to meeting you and to having a really great time..
August 26th, 2010
3:26 pm
@Becky….calamari is Italian for squid…actually it calamaro, but why split hairs?….you like squid. ;-)
August 26th, 2010
3:35 pm
TIGER…I HAVE NOT WALKED ON ALL SIDEWALKS AND SINCE I DO NOT KNOW YOU NOR YOUR WIFE…I DO NOT KNOW YOUR STORY. I did not intend to offend you.
I though I included this:
Again, everyone has to do what works for them.
I am certainly not a Doctor and so cannot even begin to tell you what you should have done.
I have known several infants who lost weight in the first week ( my own included) and of course do not know what is acceptable as far as how much weight a child can lose before they are in danger.
I am certain it depends on the baby and since mine were both big, it was a different story.
No one should EVER feel obligated to breastfeed. Many women assume it will come naturally.
To me it hurt like the dickens and was not something I just got right the first time. My own mother AND Pediatrician argued against it. Even my husband was skeptical, as his Mother did not do it.
I toughed it out (with bleeding nipples and sharp pain…sorry but it feels like someone has clipped 2 clothespins to you) but it took quite a while for me.
I AM NOT AT ALL SAYING EVERYONE SHOULD OR CAN DO IT. To me, some give up too soon.
August 26th, 2010
3:39 pm
and I believe you…like I said, I'm usually on your side. But you have to see that when you direct a statement like "it takes a while for your milk to come in……It is a commitment some can make and some cannot" after one says "mom's [milk] never came in" there is room there for that statement to be interpreted as inflammatory and a little judgemental, don't you?
August 26th, 2010
3:42 pm
Getting kids to eat well is tricky. You don't want them to be picky eaters, but you don't want to turn mealtime into a battle of wills either. Every night I dutifully serve my kids veggies, and every night they stubbornly refuse to eat them! But I never give up, and I always try to set a good example with my own eating habits. I also take comfort in the belief that as they grow up, most kids do eventually see the correlation between what they eat and how they look and feel. I think my patience is starting pay off with my oldest son. He was absurdly picky when he was a little guy, but now that he's a little older he is actually turning into a pretty decent eater.
August 26th, 2010
3:44 pm
Uh oh…. Cat fight with MJG… not good. Geeez I don't really want to know about bleeding nips when the subject of the day is school food and weight… Eeew.
August 26th, 2010
3:46 pm
Very well said Tiger!! MJG, I don't think that you realize how snotty and arrogant a lot of your comments are. I don't think you always mean things the way they come across on the board but all the same, they are taken that way and is most likely the reason so many bloggers take offense. Take your time before you just throw something out there like that. What you said about Tiger's wife was just plain rude to put it mildly and I wouldn't have been quite as nice had you directed that to me. Kind of like when you throw off so much on the poor/needly as if they are all just plain old trash. Just be more careful and kinder and I'm sure others won't be so quick to snap at you (which in turn hurts your feelings).
August 26th, 2010
3:46 pm
Tiger…no harm no foul!
Becky….good…we probably do not need to tell Corrin where we will be.
August 26th, 2010
3:58 pm
@MJG….I never said there wasn't a foul. There was most certainly a foul. That's why I called you on it. But I also wanted you to know that I appreciate a great deal of your views in spite of the occasional gaff. But hey, water under the bridge now.
August 26th, 2010
4:00 pm
I don't like a lot of seafood, or fish. I can handle talapia, cod , mahi-mahi, halibut, mild fish. I don't like oysters, but I do like scallops, shrimp and the occasional clam. King Crab legs are my favorite. My dad used to travel to San Francisco quite a bit, and he always brought home clams, king crab legs, and sour dough bread. I will not come up for air if there are fresh King Crab legs being served, I can eat a TON of that.
August 26th, 2010
4:19 pm
Agree wholeheartedly with @jmb that MJG comes across and extremely high and mighty in all posts. It's gotten to the point where I skip any posts with her handle on it. Maybe you're a nice person in real life, but you do come across as arrogant, superior and a know-it-all, which I don't have time for.