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Pursuant to M.G.L. c. 6, §§ 178C-178Q, the individual who appears on this notification has been designated as a Level 3 Sex Offender by the Sex Offender Registry Board. The Board has determined that this individual is at a high risk to reoffend and that the degree of dangerousness posed to the public is such […]
Criminal Harassment / Anti-Bullying
Posted By Winchester Police on July 2nd, 2010
Massachusetts recently enacted a law which assists victims of harassment. The law, Chapter 258E, allows victims to obtain Harassment Prevention Orders (HPO) against their harasser. HPOs are similar to 209A Abuse Prevention Orders; however, they may be obtained by anyone and not just those who are in certain types of relationships. Harassment Prevention Orders can be a useful tool against chronic bullying. If you are a victim of harassment, contact Winchester Police.
The basis for Harassment Prevention Orders is as follows:
- Three acts of intimidation, abuse or property damage that are willful and malicious conduct, aimed at a specific person with the intent to cause fear, intimidation, abuse or damage to property and which does result in fear, intimidation, abuse, or damage to property; or
- Involuntary sexual relations. A forceful or threatening act that causes another to involuntarily engage in sexual relations; or
- Specific crimes. A violation of the crime of indecent A&B on a child under 14 or on a person 15 and over or A&B or indecent A&B on a person with mental retardation; or rape, rape of a child, statutory rape; or assault with intent to rape; or stalking or criminal harassment; or drugging to engage in intercourse.
Components of Harassment Protection Orders:
- Refrain from abusing or harassing the plaintiff.
- No contact (unless authorized by the court).
- Remain away from the plaintiff's household or workplace.
- Pay compensation for any losses suffered as a direct result
of the harassment (e.g., loss of earnings, property damage,
replacing locks, medical expenses, obtaining an unlisted phone
number and reasonable attorney's fees).
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Successful presentations are about much more than your PowerPoint slides. There are some techniques you can employ to greatly improve your next presentation to employees, the senior management team, or even a venture capitalist or other potential investor.
Follow these nine points to make your next presentation pack a real punch.
1. Establish Your Credibility Right Up Front
Lets face it, your audience is more likely to listen to what you have to say if they know you are credible. And it's not about a lengthy intro with your career highlights.
Instead, whether giving a public presentation or an internal presentation, start your presentation by establishing credibility before you give them information.
You can use a short story about your background related to the topic, share an experience that shaped the presentation or conclusion, or even reveal the legwork or other references that support your information and is directly related to what you are about to tell them.
Make a point about establishing credibility — don't just hope it happens.
2. Include a Goal Early in the Presentation
If your audience knows the purpose or goal of the presentation from the start, they are more likely to relate what you have to say with that purpose as you present your material. This makes it easier at the end to get the action you want, whether it's funding, approval to proceed with an initiative, to change their minds, or simply get agreement and understanding.
About Michel Theriault
Michel Theriault is an author, speaker, and consultant focusing on topics relevant to Managers and aspiring Managers in businesses of all sizes who want to get results, get attention, and get ahead. He is the author of Write To Influence (from the Quick Guides for Managers series), Win More Business – Write Better Proposals and Managing Facilities & Real Estate. Write To Influence is currently available as a free download in ebook and audiobook format. As the founder of Success Fuel for Managers, Michel's work includes training, consulting, seminars, and business-oriented books. Connect with Michel or read his blogs about management and leadership on his site at www.successfuelformanagers.com.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Lones Green
never used it before, don't know where to get it. can i just go to dicks and pick some up? im not sure if my gym allows it, its a bit of a globo gym type place, but i lift late at night so im not sure if anyone would see me...in case i were to get caught, could i use strongman stickum?


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If you happen to see a girl with bright red hair and a vintage Star Wars helmet flying down the streets of Brooklyn on a beat-up bike, that just might be Liz. Having finally escaped the confines of her conservative hometown back in Texas (and the... Read More »
Taylor's now a senior at Burleson High School, keeping the dream alive. Although she hails from a different side of the hallway than Liz (the one with the higher percentage of lettered jackets, designer handbags, and mile-high hair), they managed to... Read More »
Counting among his heroes Intergalactic bad-ass Han Solo and Hayao Miyazaki (if you don't know the name, you better ask some internets), Bryson is a true renaissance man. Although he's a newly minted college freshman in Austin, Texas, he has... Read More »
Liz's best bud, fellow comic book junkie, and all around ride-or-die homey, Sully is now a junior in high school. Even though Sully and Liz are separated by half the country, their bond-- created through a love of Star Wars Trivia, obscure movie... Read More »
Troy graduated from Burleson High school last year, and is still repping Tejas (-noun. (slang) The State of Texas). Troy still makes time to hang out with his best buds Sully and Miles. Often the voice of reason in the group, Troy dispenses... Read More »
A senior at Burleson High, Miles can usually be found hanging out with either Sully or Troy, or both. When he's not with them, he can be found stroking his impeccably groomed mutton chops while contemplating the vastness of the universe. Wide-eyed... Read More »
Before trying to make it in New York as one-half of the up-and-coming folk duo, Augustine. Louis called North Florida home. It was there that he met up with his now band-mate and best friend Jordan (who... Read More »
Cori was Liz's former best friend turned arch-nemesis in high school. Despite sharing an almost sincere moment at prom last season, Cori and Liz haven't kept in touch since Liz left Texas. Cori becomes part of Liz's realization that nothing really... Read More »


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Under a measure the Senate advanced Monday, most high school students could be on the hook for college credits they earn in Utah's concurrent enrollment program, which benefited 26,000 students last year. SB284 is necessary to keep the program solvent, backers say, but it could impose a barrier to education for low-income students, particularly high-achievers served by university-affiliated charter schools.
"It could be devastating to the culture we have worked so hard to create," said Karen Cavin, a math teacher at Itineris Early College High School. "We need to have a level playing field for our children regardless of the economic abilities of their parents."
Concurrent enrollment
Utah is a leader in the movement to provide college instruction to high school students. Last year more than 26,000 high school students earned nearly 186,000 hours of college credit for free. Lawmakers like the program but it's financially unsustainable, according to the sponsor of a bill that would allow universities to charge students up to $90 per course.
|Join the Discussion
|Post a Comment
Most Itineris graduates leave high school with an associate's degree from Salt Lake Community College, saving them thousands of tuition dollars toward their bachelor's degrees.
To address concerns raised by education officials and the governor, SB284's sponsor amended the bill to create two exemptions: students who qualify for subsidized lunch programs would not pay a fee, nor would any student enrolled in one of a new set of statewide general education courses to be delivered electronically. The amended version moved to the House with dissenting votes from only four senators, all Salt Lake County democrats.
Universities are required by statute to provide instruction to high school students, but the Legislature has not adequately funded the program.
"A lot of concurrent enrollment is being funded by existing college students," said SB284 sponsor Sen. Stephen Urquhart, R-St. George. "They have to pay higher tuition to subsidize it. The model in higher education is people pay for their credits."
Unless universities charge "partial tuition," as Urquhart proposes, he fears concurrent enrollment opportunities will be cut back, which could cost students far more than the $30 per credit SB284 authorizes. The measure would allow universities to raise up to $5.5 million, according to its fiscal note.
"Where are they getting the $30? Are they are pulling that out of thin air?" Cavin asked. "If the colleges need more money, give them more money. Why punish students who are doing what the state wants them to do, leave high school ready for college?"
Charging could undermine the state's efforts to have two-thirds of Utah adults holding a post-secondary degree, according to Cristine Kearl, the governor's education advisor.
"You'll have classrooms where one student can afford to pay the tuition, but the other students, because they live in poverty, don't get the college credit. We see this as discriminatory," she said in a committee hearing on the bill.
Itineris principal Stephen Jolley predicted the measure, which would cost his students up to $360 a semester on average, could cut his enrollment in half.
"We are bringing higher education to people who have traditionally not been served," he said. "Let's not take programs that are working and cut them off."
Copyright 2014 The Salt Lake Tribune. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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Posted on 2014/07/10, in Media and tagged Church of the Americas Foundation, Facebook, Facebook envy, Ryan Hite, Social Media, Through Minds Eyes. Bookmark the permalink. Leave a comment.
Liturgical Year
Recent Posts
Old Media
Old Media
Ryan Hite
Ryan Hite (born February 3, 1993), is an American author, philosopher, and student best known for his first work, Through Minds' Eyes, and books based off it. He is also known as the founder of the Hitian Philosophy and the Church of the Americas Foundation. He is currently a student at the University of Colorado at Boulder and is well known for some of his freelance work as well. He is the webmaster for Hite Magazine and the Church of the Americas Foundation blog. He is also an influential blogger on religion, politics, and happenings at the University of Colorado.
His works and blog have won him critical acclaim. His book is published through Hay House, by way of the self-publishing division, Balboa Press. He is also the brainchild of C-City and the Hite Corporation, according to his website, and is working on many writing projects as well.
Ryan was born and raised in Conifer, Colorado, and moved to the town of Littleton in 2000. He attended Chatfield Senior High School and graduated in 2011. He moved to Boulder to attend the University of Colorado in 2011 and is expected to graduate in 2015 with a degree in Environmental Design.
Ryan was a member of the Roman Catholic Church before developing his own philosophy starting in 2011 after being greatly influenced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In 2012, he developed Through Minds' Eyes as a reaction to his experiences during his first year in Boulder and released his first work in 2013, when he was just a sophomore in college.
Ryan's eclectic spiritual journey began in May of 2009 during a vision that he had. The dreams and visions went without notice until his freshman year of college, during which time, he went through many experiences revolving around a group of people that now consist of fourteen of the closest friends that he ever had.
Shortly after his freshman year of college, he started to publish a book entitled Through Minds' Eyes and finished it in the Fall of 2012. It was picked up by Hay House and was published through Balboa Press in March of 2014. It served as the inspiration for the founding of the Church of the Americas Foundation and Hite Magazine, and it would also serve as the primary text for the philosophy that is now being advocated by Ryan in his professional work.
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FORT MYERS, Fla.- The city of Fort Myers is considering, creating a film commission to attract commercial shoots, TV shows, and feature films. The commission would be part of city government, and would get leads from the state film commission.
"We are missing out on opportunities. We need this for the economic boost of the production crews, actors and spectators that go along with a film project," says Natalie Dunham of the community redevelopment agency.
She says the commission might be part of the redevelopment office at first, but acknowledges, in time, it would have to have its own office, staff and likely a travel budget. No figures are firm, although operating even a two or three person staff could cost up to $100,000 a year.
"I think it's a great idea. We have so many beautiful locations here to shoot, and the extra money for hotels and restaurants would be good," says city resident Ted Steele.
William Devenney disagrees.
"We have enough layers of government now. This just means more cost, more taxes, for us to pay, as the property owners. Totally against it," he tells WINK News.
The idea will go to an advisory board of the redevelopment agency on February 7. If it progesses, the film commission item could go to the city council in March.
Lee County used to have a film commission, but abolished it because commissioners felt the investment was not paying off.
Fort Myers has hosted film shoots over the years, including "Just Cause" in 1995.


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Lesson's I've Learned From Three Mistakes I Made
Matthew is a member of The Motley Fool Blog Network -- entries represent the personal opinion of the blogger and are not formally edited.
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing." - George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
It's probably not surprising that there are a lot of famous quotes out there on making mistakes. The general consensus is that mistakes are just part of life and even beneficial if you can learn something from them. In an effort to learn something from some of my recent less than stellar decisions I'm pointing them out in an effort to gain some lasting insight.
Being Too Greedy Cost Me a 30% Gain!
I've been following energy underdog Rex Energy (NASDAQ: REXX) for some time now. When I had the opportunity to add shares to my virtual "No Drip, No Mess" Portfolio I chose to write puts instead of buying shares outright. In my report I said that, "I think this underdog has the potential to fetch investors a healthy long term gain." I figured I could write the put and pick up both shares and options income and just maybe repeat writing puts for a while and keep the income flowing. I was wrong; instead Rex's Utica Shale position started to get noticed by analysts and shares soared by more than thirty percent since I wrote the put.
While the more than ten percent of options income was nice, it didn't net me shares of a company I really wanted to own. Obviously in hindsight it would have been better to have bought at least some shares and saved put writing to add to the position.
Being Too Aggressive Cost Me a 20% Loss!
My wife and I just got our first family pet and I've been looking for investments to hedge against the added expenses that our little fur ball has incurred. I settled on PetMed Express (NASDAQ: PETS) because I liked their very generous dividend. Instead of either buying shares or writing out of the money puts like I'm known to do, I was aggressive and wrote in the money puts. I said that, "Usually when I write puts it is a strategy to acquire shares of a company a bit cheaper. In the case of PetMed Express we're writing slightly in the money puts in an effort to bank some nice option premium on a fairly volatile small cap stock."
While I banked a total of five and a half percent worth of options income, shares are down twenty percent from where I was required to buy shares. A bulk of that fall came from a poorly received earnings report which alone sent shares down by fifteen percent. If I were paying more attention I'd have waited the two weeks before earning before making the move. In hindsight I should have at least written the puts out of the money or bought a half a position before earnings. Next time I'll be more careful.
Being Too Passive Cost Me 50% of My Option's Premium!
When I decided that I wanted to own shares of Rogers (NYSE: RCI) I saw that I could write a $30 put for about $100 which was a nice chunk of change for such a steady performer. If successful I'd be picking up shares of a company that I said had, "done a great job at cleaning up the balance sheet and have been really boosting their dividend so that today shares yield a very generous 4.75% and they've improved so much that they make an excellent long-term investment." Unfortunately, I got nowhere near that nice chunk of change I was hoping for.
When I went to actually write the puts the premium was falling as the shares were rising. I kept waiting and before long the premium was fifty percent less than what I'd wanted to receive. I was forced to accept what the market was offering because I was just waiting around to see if I could do better.
Investing Better
As I've analyzed the mistakes I've made it has enabled me to make adjustments going forward. When I was contemplating which utility to buy I found one that was just too cheap to ignore. That's why I announced that Exelon (NYSE: EXC) was the one utility I was buying.
When I wrote up my thesis I thought about just being greedy and writing a put in hopes of getting shares just a bit cheaper. Instead of writing puts alone I also bought some shares so that I didn't miss out in case the market realized that they were underpricing Exelon by nearly forty percent relative to their peers. That's a mispricing I don't want to miss.
Another mistake I don't want to make again is being overly aggressive. When I started watching Westport Innovation (NASDAQ: WPRT) shares were in the mid $30's. Now that shares are down about thirty percent since I started watching them it's time to add this emerging natural gas innovator to my portfolio. They're growing their core medium duty truck business while expanding in all directions as natural gas engines begin to take off. I might not be buying at the bottom, but it's a much better price than if I bought aggressively when I first started watching the company.
Mistakes that are educational can be worth making. In hindsight I've made a couple that I likely won't make again. Learning from those mistakes is the key to invest better.
latimerburned owns shares of Westport Innovations and Rogers Communications (USA). The Motley Fool owns shares of Westport Innovations. Motley Fool newsletter services recommend Exelon, Rogers Communications (USA), and Westport Innovations. Try any of our Foolish newsletter services free for 30 days. We Fools may not all hold the same opinions, but we all believe that considering a diverse range of insights makes us better investors. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.If you have questions about this post or the Fool's blog network, click here for information.


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Horse experts are reacting after journalist Brian Ross confronted a trainer accused of soring Tennessee Walking Horses on ABC's "Nightline."ABC News showed undercover video of horses being beaten and shocked with cattle prods.The practice known as soring is supposed to help develop the Walking Horses' famed high-stepping gait.Soring is illegal, and now the man confronted in the video, Jackie McConnell, and three others are awaiting a federal trial in Chattanooga. The indictment alleges a string of incidents dating back to 2006. The video and ABC's story has the Walking Horse industry talking. When reacting to the video, inspector Dr. Stephen Lark Mullins told Nashville's News 2, "It was absolutely disgusting, it was disturbing to me. What I want people to realize though is that that's one individual trainer."He explained, "That's disappointing to me that a large sponsor would pull out off of the video of one trainer that is like a NASCAR sponsor pulling out because one NASCAR member or one pit crew member was guilty of doing something."The discussion attracted numerous comments on Nashville's News 2's Facebook page.
Julie Smith stated, "I personally know people in this industry and they do not hurt their animals. I think it's sad that we label everyone just because of some people. Some does not mean all."As a result of the investigation, Pepsi, one of the sponsors of the Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration, has pulled out of the event.McConnell, 60, was named in a 52-count indictment in March, along with 54-year-old Jeff Dockery, 50-year-old John Mays and 30-year-old Joseph Abernathy.Penalties for violating the Horse Protection Act carry a maximum fine of $5,000 and up to three years in prison.The video of the alleged stewarding will be seen publicly for the first time Wednesday night on the ABC News program "Nightline."Read more at ABCNews.com. Click here to watch the video.
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441 Murfreesboro Road Nashville, TN 37210
Telephone: 615.369.7222
Fax: 615.369.7329
Email: email@example.com


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"Patti Smith Goes To India," Backstage At Rag & Bone
"When you have a brand with a signature feeling, you kind of just go with it," Redken creative consultant Guido Palau said backstage at Rag & Bone, referencing designers David Neville and Marcus Wainwright's signature style. And so, as she has in nearly every season past, the downtown cool girl reared her languid, texturized head of hair yet again. There were "Patti Smith goes to India" references being bandied about as well, but not in any kind of literal way. "She's a traveler but she's still rock 'n' roll," Palau clarified, explaining why strands were a little bit more "dread-y" than usual thanks to Redken's Full Frame 07 Protective Volumizing Mousse, which was slathered onto wet strands. Palau then added its Rough Paste 12 Working Material paste once the hair was dry. "It defines the texture," he said of the sculpting product, as he set hair in twists to allow for movement.
The India component was actually Revlon artistic director Gucci Westman's idea. "The boys were inspired by the jump in severe poverty and wealth [there]," Westman explained, which led her directly to that classic Indian beauty staple enjoyed by women of all income brackets: kohl eye liner. "I used three different eyeliners—a gel, a kohl pencil, and a liquid," Westman said of her application technique, which relied heavily on Revlon Crème Gel Liner in Black, its Luxurious Color Eye Liner in Black, and its Liquid Liner in Blackest Black. For a slight change of pace, the face painter opted to trace the lower lid only, smudging as she went so it looked rough, "like decay." Skin was kept "porcelain-y" thanks to a precise layering effort of a blend of skin correctors and luminizers, including the highlighter from Westman's limited-edition shadow palette for fall in Midnight Express. To ensure that the effect was "pure and angelic," she misted models with water as they hit the runway for an instant dewy look.
Photo: Luca Cannonieri / GoRunway.com


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PARIS - This month, the Dutch airline KLM began testing a program it calls Meet and Seat, allowing ticketholders to upload details from their Facebook or LinkedIn profiles and use the data to choose seatmates.
"For at least 10 years, there has been this question about serendipity and whether you could improve the chances of meeting someone interesting onboard,'' said Erik Varwijk, a managing director in charge of passenger business at KLM. "But the technology just wasn't available.''


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Some information is missing or invalid below.
Learn more.
Accent your Individuality Beads bracelet with this lovely sterling silver bead. Featuring a flower design with pink crystals, this bead is simply charming. Find more eye-catching beads when you explore our full line at Kohls.com.
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The official results will be placed on this site once we get a chance to recover.
I would like to thanks the SPUCs and the Florida Freeshafters for running the weigh-in. The TBSC and Seals for running the prizes, banners and awards ceremony. The Gulfcoast Underwater Hunters took over the T-shirt sales and the FRA/JBL raffle and they were awesome. The Salty Sea Wenches ran the photo contest. Running the photo event is a lot of work and Cindy and Heather really stepped up. It was also great to see the Clearwater Hogs joining all the other clubs and their helpers filled in the gaps.
All the FSDA Officers and Reps, STEPPED UP AND I BELIEVE WE ALL WORKED TO PRODUCE ONE OF THE BEST SOUTHERN OPENS IN MANY YEARS. We had over 170 participants and we had divers from Indiana, Georgia, North Carolina, California and Virginia. Also, a big thanks to Bill VanDemon and Jay Wilson for running our Key West and St. Augustine Captians meeting.
Lastly, Andrew Clevland is nothing short of awesome. Andrew with John and Emily Russell always volunteer and always keep all the data processing and info stuff together.
Basically, this is a major group effort and I truly thank each and everyone person who came forward and offered their help. There were many to do this and each and everyone of you made the 46th Southern Open a success.


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children preschool through 8th grade .Our...


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Robert Gryphon blogs on learning the novelist's craft to pay for better quality cat food. All writing-related conversation welcome.
Described as the Online Social Networking Community for the Publishing Industry, this forum/blog is a resource center for writers looking for agents. Self-publishing stars and conservative contenders often find themselves looking for representation when considering the move to mainstream or blended distribution for their work. Evidently connected with the well-known agent search site www.AgentQuery.com, though I'm not at a stage where I'm researching this area in detail.


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Using a word processing program, create a file containing your name, the assignment number, and your detailed evaluation of one web site you visited while completing last week's assignment. Be sure to list the name and address of the web site, as well as a thorough discussion of the criteria you applied to evaluate the site and your findings.
Use this check list as a guide for what information you will need to examine and discuss within your evaluation report. Finally, what did you learn from the process of critically evaluating a web site?
Upload your completed file to this week's e-College drop box. Your response should be 250 - 500 words in length.


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tsIt's always fun at Bank Street Bookstore, especially at Storyhours with Andy! And now, get set for toddler story hours daily at 10:30 am!
You heard me. Starting Tuesday September 4, there's a free story hour every day at Bank Street Bookstore. Join the Facebook group "Bank Street Bookstore Storyhours" to make requests.
But wait, there's more! On Saturdays through September 8, you can see the Yippee Skippy Puppet Theater production of The Frog Prince. And, stay tuned for an all new production of Fairy Tale Puppet Theater starting September 22nd.


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IE9 preview
Is it getting hot in here? Or is it just the flames?
In An Early Look At IE9 for Developers, Dean Hachamovitch, General Manager for Internet Explorer, reports on performance progress, web standards progress (border-radius, bits of CSS3, Acid 3 performance), and "bringing the power of PC hardware and Windows to web developers in the browser" (e.g. improved type rendering via Direct2D, a Windows sub-pixel rendering technology that replaces Cleartype).
The reported web standards improvements are encouraging, and better type rendering in IE is a consummation much to be desired. These positive notes notwithstanding, what is most interesting about the post is the political tightrope Microsoft team leaders are still forced to walk.
The world has moved to web standards, and Microsoft knows it must at least try to catch up. Its brilliant browser engineers have been working hard to do so. This web standards support is not optional: having just been spanked hard in Europe for anticompetitive practices, Microsoft knows it is no longer invincible, and cannot continue to use claims of innovation to stifle the overall market or drag its feet on advanced standards compliance.
At the same time, Microsoft's marketing department wants the public to believe that IE and Windows are profoundly innovative. Thus efforts to catch up to the typographic legibility and beauty of Mac OS X and Webkit browsers are presented, in Dean Hachamovitch's blog post, as leading-edge innovations. Don't get me wrong: these improvements are desirable, and Direct2D may be great. I'm not challenging the quality of the hardware and software improvements; I'm pointing out the enforced bragging, which is mandated from on high, and which flies in the face of the humble stance other high-level divisions in Microsoft would like to enforce in the wake of the company's European drubbing and the dents Apple and Google have made on its monopoly and invulnerability.
In short, the tone of these announcements has not changed, even though the times have.
Hachamovitch does an admirable job of sticking to the facts and pointing out genuine areas of interest. But he is stuck in a corporate box. A slightly more personal, down-to-earth tone would have come across as the beginnings of transparency—Web 1.1, if not Web 2.0—and a more transparent tone might have slightly reduced the percentage of flamebait in the post's comments. (It could only have slightly reduced that percentage, because, on the internet, there is no such thing as a calm discussion of improvements to a Microsoft browser, but still.)
Although I disagree with the tone of many of the comments—rudeness to engineers is not admirable, kind, or helpful—I agree with the leading thoughts they express, which are:
- Getting IE fully up to speed on web standards is much more important than introducing any proprietary innovations. (Naturally I agree with this, as it is, in a nutshell, what The Web Standards Project told browser companies back in 1998—and it is still true.)
- Switching to Webkit might be a better use of engineering resources than patching IE.
On the other hand, Microsoft's refusal to switch to Webkit gives Apple and Google a competitive advantage, and that is good because a web in which one browser has a monopoly stifles standards and innovation alike. By torturing the IE rendering engine every couple of years instead of putting it out of its misery, Microsoft contributes to the withering away of its own monopoly. That might not be good for the shareholders, but it is great for everyone else.
Filed under: Browsers, Microsoft, Standards, State of the Web, type, Web Design, Web Design History, Web Standards, webkit
82 Responses to "IE9 preview"
Rich Quick said on 16 March 2010 at 9:44 am:
The problem is that IE has a monopoly because most people don't even know what a browser IS.
When fewer than 8% of the public (from a random sample) know what a browser is .. and most people seem to think Google and Yahoo are browsers, then that means they're using their operating system's default Browsers.
Which in most cases means IE.
Matt Robin said on 16 March 2010 at 9:48 am:
Maybe they could stun us all completely and bring out a whole new rendering engine – not based on IE or WebKit? That would be quite a scene stealer! ;)
In the meantime, as vast numbers of people and companies still use IE by default, I'm definitely in favour of it being improved.
Kevin Quillen said on 16 March 2010 at 9:49 am:
On the other hand, Microsoft's refusal to switch to Webkit gives Apple and Google a competitive advantage, and that is good because a web in which one browser has a monopoly stifles standards and innovation alike. By torturing the IE rendering engine every couple of years instead of putting it out of its misery, Microsoft contributes to the withering away of its own monopoly. That might not be good for the shareholders, but it is great for everyone else.
Game, set, match.
Edgar Leijs said on 16 March 2010 at 9:50 am:
Will Web Design become cheaper when IE9 is being published? Call me naive, but why took it 12 years for MS to understand the purpos. Of Web Standards?
Tjobbe Andrews said on 16 March 2010 at 9:52 am:
This is what EVERYONE needs: a Web browser that allows Web designers and developers to build rich and engaging Web sites.
Only those who actually know what a "browser" is want this, but everybody who uses the Internet and for the 60-odd-percent that still use Internet Explorer I truly hope that innovation is left out and a focus on standards is what they work on.
Mind you, an improved Internet Explorer 9, even with webkit, wouldn't have me switching.
Mark Howells-Mead said on 16 March 2010 at 9:56 am:
Damn. 1998 was 12 years ago. TWELVE.
Mark Howells-Mead said on 16 March 2010 at 9:58 am:
There's been an interesting and fun initiative launched by a colleague here in Switzerland called Bill for Bill, which – were it to take off internationally – would show the true cost to clients and web developers of the quirky IE6.
Phil Powell said on 16 March 2010 at 10:01 am:
Any improvements to IE must be welcomed – it's a behemoth which isn't going to go away, no matter how vociferous the web community's attitude is towards it.
But I can't feel like we've been here before. Wasn't IE7 supposed to herald a new era for IE being a good net citizen? And IE8? Whenever I read about the specs of new releases of Microsoft's browser, the words "partial support" keep appearing.
There is a positive side to this though: the longer IE plays catch-up in the browser world, rather than innovating in the browser world, it will continue to loose market share, creating a more equal playing field for other browser vendors, and ergo, more fervent competition and innovation.
Recep Kütük said on 16 March 2010 at 10:04 am:
Even the mention of a new version of ie is scaring me. I am another friendly neighborhood designer guy, serving ie6.css, ie7.css and ie8.css files.
All I want is fast transition from the earlier versions to this one. If ie9 will be what MS claims it will, they shouldn't let earlier versions to survive and implement this one in a "critical update".
Jonathan McLean said on 16 March 2010 at 10:05 am:
Is there even a possibility that IE would switch specifically to WebKit (and I apologize if this is an already-discussed topic). With WebKit so widely supported by Apple and the Chrome Engine supported by Google, is there a possibility they might switch to Gecko? Of course, that brings up the question of the future viability of Gecko even.
Basically, your post just brings up the curious point I have noticed that, "everything," seems to be switching to WebKit, which would then have me worried that the standards cycle would start all over again and these five year tech cycles become tiresome after a while. Before we know it, you may be writing a sequel, "Designing with More Standardized Web Standards," or something to that effect.
Antoine Butler said on 16 March 2010 at 10:21 am:
Great overview. I haven't followed the IE9 updates because I don't expect to be amazed. I think it's that-that most people are angry with. Anything short of amazement, a complete 180, and a finite disassociation with their previous ways is a disappointment.
They've let IE go too far down the rabbit whole to attempt a rescue now. Alice is gone, it's time to find a new.
Tom said on 16 March 2010 at 10:49 am:
I don't think that MS should ditch IE in favor of Webkit, IE8 proves that IE can still have a future, I just don't understand why MS insists on keeping IE's engine (Trident, is it?) closed source.
The use case of the open-sourced Webkit chosen by Apple and Google proves that in a rapidly evolving market like the browsers market, open-source has an amazing advantage over closed source development in terms of release cycles and use of programing resources.
I believe that if IE becomes open, only if because of the hype it will create, it will be a matter of weeks before it catches up with other browsers on important web-standards, and months before it becomes a worthy opponent to Mozilla/Webkit.
I feel the same thing about Opera btw, the fact that it's not open is the only thing that holds it back.
Arpan said on 16 March 2010 at 10:51 am:
I know that MS will never use Webkit because it would mean admitting Apple's better than them at something.
But why not just buy out Opera. They get a great browser engine, and they get to keep it closed source. And it's got to be cheaper than trying to fix IE. Plus they get a bunch of great tech and a bunch of engineers who have proven they can perform with limited resources.
Drew Robinson said on 16 March 2010 at 10:55 am:
Never was there a better example of "damning with faint praise" Jeffrey. I especially enjoyed your last paragraph.
The tone with which these Microsoft browser team communiques, and indeed nearly all Microsoft output, is written is one of the major causes of my dislike for the company and it's products. A tone of utmost contempt for any other competing product, and written in such a way (or as you say, dictated from on high) that any possible shreds of self-confidence that might be gleaned from the text is overshadowed by a distasteful superiority complex.
Niels Matthijs said on 16 March 2010 at 11:27 am:
Actually, the web is moving away again from standards. Webkit and FF rendering engine are stuffed full of proprietary properties with their own syntax, quirks and bugs.
CSS3 gradients are a regular farce, border-radius only works in some simple cases.
CSS files aren't getting any cleaner now that we're using CSS3. And in a couple of years time, depending on the Webkit/FF hype we'll look back at the current browsers and disapprove of their crappy behavior, just as we are doing with IE6 now.
But Apple, Mozilla and Google are the cool guys, so we seem to support their standardwrecking behavior.
Arpan said on 16 March 2010 at 11:35 am:
The way Webkit & FF add features is the right way, by adding a -webkit or -moz at the beginning to show that it is a work in progress and they are actually talking to each other and working on standardizing these features.
Would you prefer that they don't add any new features at all. They support current standards and are working together to develop new features that will become standards.
Some features like browser radius, box-shadow etc. were only supported in one of the browsers at the beginning, but now are supported by all 3 modern rendering engines (webkit, mozilla, and opera). So these features haven't remained proprietary for longer than a few months.
On the other hand, IE's filters etc. have remained proprietary for a decade.
Niels Matthijs said on 16 March 2010 at 11:51 am:
As far as I know you still have to write proprietary code for Webkit and Mozilla to make the border-radius work. Opera has no prefix, so I hope they closed down all changes to the syntax, or things will be even worse. Syntax for the border-radius is also still different for Webkit and Mozilla.
Everybody is using them though. So yeah, I'd rather they'd kept them out of their browsers until they were actual, bonafide standards. It's okay if they include them into the nightlies, so we can play with them for a little while, but the situation now is becomes troublesome very quickly.
And if you want to do anything fancy with border-radius (like a different radius for each corner) you're setting yourself up for half a chapter of non-standard css. Can't see how that is considered progress.
Can't wait to look back in three years time at the css we're writing today.
Arpan said on 16 March 2010 at 12:16 pm:
They cannot become standards until there are atleast 2 implementations. This way they add the prefix to test it, make the changes as necessary. This way, we designers get actual input by being able to test how it works. Then when 2 or more rendering engines agree on the implementation, it is standardized.
Also, if you don't want to use features that aren't finalized yet, you don't have to. That is why the prefix exists, to let you know that these features aren't finalized and are subject to change. Think of the prefix as a beta (or actually an alpha) release of the feature.
Trav said on 16 March 2010 at 12:24 pm:
Here's hoping we see real improvements, and not just 'partial support'…
Tim Sneath said on 16 March 2010 at 12:32 pm:
Hi Jeffrey,
Thanks for your post – unfortunately it links to a blog post from last November, rather than today's news where we've announced much more detailed support for HTML 5 and other web standards. I'd love folk to have a look at http://ietestdrive.com and give us your honest feedback based on today (rather than last year :-)
Thanks for all you're doing to advance web standards – we're as keen for everyone to move off IE6 as the rest of the community!
Warm wishes,
Tim Sneath
Sr Director, Microsoft
Keith Homel said on 16 March 2010 at 12:37 pm:
@Rich Quick – Thank you for the realistic comment.
I find it amazing that web developers/designers continue to get lost in the fantasy world of web standards and forget about the general public who actually visit the sites they create.
People like my parents, my non-technical friends, and a LOT of customers (according to the call center reports) just don't understand or care about a lot of these things. They are using whatever browser is selected by default on their computer when they clicked the link in their HTML email message.
And they are frustrated by the lack of flash on their iPhones, by the way.
Web standards are great, but it doesn't matter a whole helluva lot when the folks making the browsers don't listen/care/follow the guidelines.
Bottom line: Unless your site is aimed at tech folks, stick with what works. If you can get away with it, slip in some CSS3 that doesn't screw up older browsers, and don't use CSS that is browser dependent!
Niels Matthijs said on 16 March 2010 at 12:58 pm:
That is the theory, indeed.
But the reality is that CSS3 is the current hype and it is promoted everywhere. There are even specific sites that will output your needed css3 statements for border-radius to work in all supporting browsers.
You know, back in the day of IE6, it was also possible to css "the good way". But nobody did so, and that's part of the reason why we're in so much trouble now. The same way nobody is minding these browser-prefixes much, and littering css files with them has become "best practice".
That's why I think they belong in nightlies, not in consumer releases of browsers.
Ferdy said on 16 March 2010 at 1:00 pm:
"Any improvements to IE must be welcomed"
I disagree, unless the improvement is switching to a more capable web engine. The upcoming improvements are nothing more than yet another browser for web developers to take care of. So now we will have IE6, 7 ,8 and 9. Each one slightly more capable, but each one still requiring seperate testing, and with Microsoft not forcing upgrades, these versions are here to stay for a long time.
Rindy said on 16 March 2010 at 1:34 pm:
@Ferdy why do we have to continue supporting IE6 at all? Let's just consign it to history and be done with it. Anyone still using it obviously isn't very interested in the internet, per se, so let them see dumbed-down versions of our sites
Todd Lambert said on 16 March 2010 at 1:46 pm:
I'd love to see Microsoft adopt the Gecko engine rather than webkit. At least it would build strength in the Firefox/Mozilla camp and would at least make the browser wars between just two competing render engines. This would be great for competition and would keep both camps innovating.
I really have to say that Internet Explorer using it's own engine is much akin to have a 3rd wheel. Oh, I guess I forgot Opera. (but then, so has everyone else – wink)
Dave Simon said on 16 March 2010 at 2:01 pm:
Gecko or WebKit, just anything other than the patchwork (or patchdoesn'twork) quilt of suck that is Trident.
Again, Mr. Zeldman knocks it out of the park and says exactly what I was thinking.
Michael Critz said on 16 March 2010 at 2:13 pm:
When it comes to rendering engines Microsoft isn't content with reinventing the wheel — they're trying to reinvent asphalt.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world seems to zip about in solar-powered hover-cars.
rick said on 16 March 2010 at 2:24 pm:
I just finished a project where the client wanted the main content box to have rounded corners and a shadow. Doing that for Webkit and Gecko browsers as TWO LINES of CSS. Yeah, one line would be better, but I'll suffer with two. Your alternative would mean I would have to build a ton of non-semantic divs and hack up images to get the same effect. That's better… how?
The 'don't use it until it's perfect' means, in effect, 'never use it' because nothing's every perfect and finished.
Bart M. said on 16 March 2010 at 2:33 pm:
If Microsoft would ditch IE in favor of Webkit, this would a bad thing. The more competition the better. When 3 or 4 (if you count the KDE/Webkit team) parties would be pushing webkit, it would get too much leverage.
Jay Fienberg said on 16 March 2010 at 2:45 pm:
It'd be awesome if Microsoft made Trident (or, whatever is the IE 9 rendering engine, if it's different) an open source project, in a manner similar to Gecko and WebKit. Having three great, high performance, standards compliant, web rendering engines could be a good thing in general, and could help Microsoft get out of its second-string browser funk once and for all.
The various web standards are somewhat mob-like in their breadth and ambitions, and it seems like we're past the era where a "managed team, alone" of web browser developers can scale to fulfill the demand for browser standards compliance, high performance, novel features, design and usability, etc. The successes of Gecko and WebKit seem to suggest that, in the 21st century, "it takes the web to help build a great web browser."
So, Microsoft: maybe you should let the web help you build a great web browser?
If Trident were open sourced, Microsoft still could make proprietary (closed source) "plugins"–I think this is the Google model, with Chrome?
So, IE, beyond Trident, could have its proprietary features for things like Active Directory authentication–and maybe even a sandboxed IE 6 compatibility plugin that could be activated only for those poor corporate intranets apps tied to the proprietary IE 6 model.
Matthew Brown said on 16 March 2010 at 3:05 pm:
Microsoft is rich enough to fund and support the development of a world-class browser. The problem is their internal culture, and their lack of focus — Microsoft is too often trying to do a half-assed job of too much, rather than a good job of a smaller set of projects.
Rob... said on 16 March 2010 at 3:28 pm:
The last thing I want is more WebKit based browsers. We'll end up with a homogeny and that's always bad.
The thing I'd like to see most is MS fixing rendering bugs in IE 9.1, 9.2 etc…
Eric Peacock said on 16 March 2010 at 3:35 pm:
Thanks for a clear and mature response to what is good news amidst spin.
Many of IE8's touted new features like suggested sites and "accelerators" seem to confuse or simply get ignored by most users I work with.
Those users are not concerned with standards and the nuts and bolts, they just want to surf. In the same workplace, the power users that such features seem to be aimed at all choose Firefox, Safari or Chrome.
Most IE users seem to update because of the "pushed" Windows Update patches (though you have to manually OK IE8 after being notified). Because of this I know that MS could push out whatever they want without worrying about selling new features to the non-corporate users.
As far as resources go, the IE team should simply continue to get up-to-speed with web standards and put out a 0.5 release and not worry about pushing any glossy new features dictated by marketing. Apple's Snow Leopard is a good example of an unusual but probably necessary clean-up release with no "new" features to speak of, but many of the optimizations were worth it when used long-term.
Alan Moore said on 16 March 2010 at 3:35 pm:
To those asking for Trident to become OSS, I would bet there's plenty of elements in that code covered by software patents, etc. which would prevent that.
The idea of buying out Opera makes sense, but the chances of that are low as it would be seen as a hostile takeover of a European company who are one of MS's most vocal critics. There's more chance of them buying out Google.
And as for the IE6-won't-go-away issue, I agree. I'd like to see it gone. But the fact is you can only ignore it on a site-by-site basis. Check your logs and see how many IE6 visitors you get per month. My portfolio, for instance, doesn't need IE6 support anymore. On the other hand, the company I work for has a group of 10 or so ecommerce sites and each of them has IE6 accounting for between 25 and 40% of visits — there is no way they can be ignored.
It doesn't matter why those users are using IE6 – we provide a means for them to buy our product, and the marketing dept. come up with enough user-irritating ideas (exit surveys! with a modal dialogue box!) without us shoving a banner down their throat saying 'Get a real browser, bozo.'
End result: 'What's a Browser? I just clicked on The Internet…'
And one final example. My 65-year old dad retired from IT last year. He started out with punch cards in the 60's. He went through the DOS years, OS/2 and Windows 2.0 – Windows 7 with a lot of stops in-between. His final job title was 'Version Control Manager.' Not a luddite. He knows what a browser is but only moved to Firefox a few years back when I told him why he should. He knew of the alternatives to IE but no-one had educated him and given him a reason why he should change. And he still refers to it as 'Mot-zilla' :)
Kevin Quillen said on 16 March 2010 at 3:40 pm:
By not implementing WebKit, doesn't that let MS do things like use ActiveX on sites and such?
I was let down by IE8, so I am not going to buy into the hype on this one. I'll make my sites play nice, but I'm a Chrome/Safari guy at heart.
Jamie said on 16 March 2010 at 3:50 pm:
having not read any other comments, microsoft should buy opera, it's a decent browser that is not chrome, safari or webkit anything and still a heck of a lot better than IE. Just a thought.
Matt said on 16 March 2010 at 4:24 pm:
You say that "a web in which one browser has a monopoly stifles standards and innovation alike," and also that Microsoft should use the same rendering engine that Apple and Google use.
Is anyone else baffled by this? Having one browser monopolize the landscape is bad because diversity is good; it's really, REALLY confusing that you would advocate a move that would reduce diversity and give Webkit a monopoly.
Anthony Calzadilla said on 16 March 2010 at 4:35 pm:
"… there is no such thing as a calm discussion of improvements to a Microsoft browser…"
Its hard to remain calm when discussing ANYTHING microsoft.
Grant said on 16 March 2010 at 4:35 pm:
The trident engine will forever be playing 'catch up' with Webkit and Gecko. It will never be better than them in any way. How do you 'sell' a product to users that everyone knows is inferior? You can't. They may as well just switch to Webkit and focus their efforts elsewhere.
Stephen said on 16 March 2010 at 4:48 pm:
I, for one, agree with what Paul Thurrott wrote on his blog in response to this.
Steven Clark said on 16 March 2010 at 5:01 pm:
While MS are running behind the game its easy to overlook the fact that they hold so much market share… meaning that they are still the game in the real world to many real world users – particularly large corporations that have locked into the IE paradigm. Managers who don't know rubbish from gold in web terms make the decision to perpetuate the IE solution because of the massive hit they would take from their IE coupled software.
My point is that I don't envision MS disappearing in a hurry so IE 9 is something to pay attention to whether we like the idea or not. Whatever they do, MS have invested a vast amount of time and effort building a corporate fortress of ignorant managers who are the ones making those decisions to stay with IE browser. To them it sounds sensible – they know IE and in their minds they trust IE.
Also, don't underestimate the generational effect of those in-house managers who make the decisions. They are of the Nescape v IE world… don't expect much better until the new generation start moving higher in middle management.
Just my 2 cents. Great article, Jeffrey… thought provoking.
Steven Clark said on 16 March 2010 at 5:06 pm:
By hit to company's IE coupled software I mean that corporate managers are not only locked into situations where extracting themselves technically from the IE lock-in of their other software applications, there is also a level of confidence they glean from having the IE browser that goes with their Outlook and their Office Suite and their current training manuals and employee comfortability. It becomes madness when some workers use IE and some Opera and some FF etc because help desk is less streamlined… so the manager is way comfortable with IE and locking everyone else out.
MS have invested heavily into that space, so don't expect they'll be ousted by common sense or technical bettery.
Win the corporate market and IE is dead… but how do you do that in the real world? Mmm interesting conundrum :)
Josh Stodola said on 16 March 2010 at 5:14 pm:
On the other hand, Microsoft's refusal to switch to Webkit gives Apple and Google a competitive advantage
I am afraid you may not see the forest for the trees, Jeffrey.
The best analogy I can come up with is the metric system of measurement. Europe adopted it decades ago, and they are very happy with it. It's very standardized, it makes much more sense, it is easier to calculate. They teach us in school that it is more practical, and that is made painfully obvious in the homework assignments that compare the two. However, for whatever reason, I continue to measure stuff in inches and pounds on a daily basis because that is what I learned first, that is what I recognize, and in the end I have a suitable way to measure. In short, the mission is accomplished through different means that are equally as effective, although a little more complex/confusing. There are any number of reasons why I should change. There are any number of reasons why I should stay.
Now take the 90% of Internet users (who truly only give a shit about finding what they were looking for), and persuade them to switch to a whole new browser with an implied learning curve for the sheer purpose of supporting standards that makes the lives of engineers better. You can expect nothing but a middle finger; welcome to America!
The major selling point for me, as a user, is that Internet Explorer is (and always has been) readily available, and it loads the quickest of any browser. This is a fact. People like me (who also happen to be web developers in an ironic twist of fate) try out Firefox for the first time and panic when double-clicking the icon yields a 0.656 second delay instead of 0.234 seconds that I am used to. That's all the slower it needs to be for me to disregard. You live in New York City; you understand the price of waiting.
As a web developer, I am very excited about the adoption of standards. As a web user, I do not care about web standards at all. It seems crazy, but that's life.
Sid said on 16 March 2010 at 5:46 pm:
> Thus efforts to catch up to the typographic legibility and beauty of Mac OS X
No, DirectWrite is even farther away — and therefore even better — than ClearType from Mac font rendering.
Sid said on 16 March 2010 at 5:57 pm:
And get your facts right, please. Direct2D is not a "Windows sub-pixel rendering technology" (DirectWrite is, and yes, there's a difference), and ClearType isn't being replaced, just improved.
Shelley said on 16 March 2010 at 6:06 pm:
I'm not sure why you decided to respond to a six month old post, rather than the announcements from today. Did you do a search and neglect to check the date of the post?
Today, MS announced that IE will support SVG, XHTML, much of CSS3, providing hardware acceleration for the graphics, support for HTML5 elements, including video –these are all a major leap forward.
Why on earth should everyone give up and go WebKit? It's got its own problems. I personally prefer competition, now that MS is actually back in the game, competing.
leo said on 16 March 2010 at 7:03 pm:
I don't think Paul Thurrott liked your take on IE9 Jeffrey…its a shame.
Bill Gates said on 16 March 2010 at 7:50 pm:
No, really, Microsoft does suck.
I'm buying an iMac.
commenter said on 16 March 2010 at 8:50 pm:
I missed the IE9 presentation. From this account, it sounds almost as hyperbolic and boastful as the iPad presentation, of which I managed to stomach about 5 minutes.
Hamranhansenhansen said on 16 March 2010 at 9:01 pm:
> Why on earth should everyone give up and go WebKit?
No, we're only saying that Microsoft should, and only because they are 5 plus years behind WebKit, which has been setting the pace for some years now. Microsoft uses the open source BSD Unix TCP/IP stack so they are compatible with the Internet. What's being suggested is that they also use the open source Apple WebKit HTML renderer so that they are compatible with the modern Web and modern Web apps.
> The more competition the better
> I personally prefer competition
Where is the competition? If IE's rendering were competitive, this post would not exist. The whole point is that it's so uncompetitive, it should be replaced wholesale with a renderer that is competitive.
What's worse, IE's nonstandard render is anti-competitive above the HTML rendering level, *on the actual Web*, because it drives the cost of development up by so much. Microsoft can afford to put 1000 coders on a Web app and make multiple versions for IE, HTML5, Silverlight, ISO MPEG-4, and so on. Most publishers cannot. A 2-person team with a great idea for a Web app can build an HTML5 version by themselves with hard work and grit and no business people or funding or interference, but IE users cannot see it. Users of all other browsers and platforms can see it, but to publish for IE, the 2-person team has to get funding and a larger team both to build and maintain a much more complex version of the app that also works in IE. The reality is that a lot of those project don't happen for just that reason, or they are corporatized as they happen. Or they fail to scale a much more complex app. It's the same as how the cost of paper and ink going up so much caused us to have many fewer books get published.
Also the IE renderer is anti-competitive in devices. The HTML5 Web makes it possible for anyone to create a Web tablet that can run a ton of HTML5 Web apps. But apps that are made to run in IE won't run on there, users are driven to Windows to use those apps. That is why 15% of the Web is stuck on IE6, to run apps that were made for IE6 even though the publishers often thought they were getting Web apps.
So the IE renderer is responsible for killing much more competition than it ever caused, and it's not even competitive itself with other renderers. Where is the competition?
If you value competition, you will likely value the results of a standardized IE. You'll see a global explosion of competition in Web apps and Web browsers similar to what has happened in mobiles since iPhone. This will happen with or without Microsoft — there are 5 billion mobiles and only 1 billion PC's — but Microsoft could be a part of it and make it happen faster by switching to WebKit now. By the time they get their own renderer caught up, the PC will be a minority on the Web.
Ardentra said on 16 March 2010 at 9:28 pm:
For someone who claims he champions standards how can you be anything but happy with the recent IE9 announcements. You come across just absolutely bitter.
Switch to webkit? Why on earth would they do that?
Do you care to refute this chart?
Nobody supports all of the standards (Acid3 is not a standard!).
Clearly the IE team has a reason to trumpet and be proud of their new baby. You come off sounding like sour grapes. Is your world going to come crashing down when IE9 does support all of the standards out there? BTW that day is rapidly approaching…
Jeremy Ricketts said on 16 March 2010 at 9:56 pm:
Wow. Why do they even allow comments on the IE Blog? I can't remember the last time I saw that much developer rage.
I've stopped concerning myself with what the IE team is cooking up. It only makes me angry. They don't listen to developers. IE is still bundled with Windows. I have little confidence that they have the ability or the will to compete with Gecko or Webkit in regards to web standards.
IE is truly holding back the web. I believe in the web and I want to see it move forward. I want to spend my time as a developer doing things that matter, not creating workarounds for IE. I want to use new, emerging technologies without having to worry about their lack of support in this one, horrible web browser.
Kevin Dees said on 16 March 2010 at 10:30 pm:
I personally don't believe that IE moving to Webkit is such a good idea. Although I must admit it would be nice, very nice. But this is simply short term thinking on my part.
What happens when Webkit, like IE, has no competition for a long period of time?
"a web in which one browser has a monopoly stifles standards and innovation alike."
I need to constantly remind myself of this.
The W3C is great, but only a funnel. Without a moderator conversion can dwindle, or even get ugly. Besides, IE gave us AJAX!
Ardentra said on 16 March 2010 at 10:36 pm:
Great nice to know that you censor your blog…
Shelley said on 16 March 2010 at 11:24 pm:
"No, we're only saying that Microsoft should, and only because they are 5 plus years behind WebKit, which has been setting the pace for some years now. "
Poor little Firefox…struggling along…
I remember a little over 15 years ago I believe it was, going to the MS campus to the see the roll out of a new thing called "DHTML". At that point in time, Microsoft had gone from being a non-player, to being _the_ player when it came to innovation. As for standards support, well, the standards effort was as fractured and contentious then, as it, unfortunately, seems to be now. We never learn.
I never count out Microsoft. I can be just as pissed at the company for sitting on its laurels (otherwise known as IE6) for far too long, as everyone else, but I also remember how fast it went from being nothing to everything.
I'm actually looking forward to the next few years. Could be very exciting.
Jim Muirhead said on 17 March 2010 at 1:05 am:
What would be so wrong with everyone using WebKit? It's not controlled by a single commercial interest and Chrome has shown us that using WebKit doesn't have to mean getting the same browser. There are lots of add-on features that Apple, Google and even Microsoft can put on top of a standardized, open-source rendering engine that can still make each browser stand apart from the others. Microsoft can still tack on their Active-X stuff, etc, etc, to maintain compatibility with sites developed with IE in mind. I think it would be wonderful to be a web developer in a world where my markup and CSS looks and works the same in every browser. Then we all, including the browser makers, could focus our attention on putting more innovation into the user experience rather than wasting time on just fixing things across different browsers. It's all such a huge waste of effort and money. It's time we standardized the infrastructure of what has become an essential public utility and move our competitive efforts onto things that will make for better websites and online services.
Michael Kozakewich said on 17 March 2010 at 2:46 am:
I disagree with everyone over the "it's not competitive" argument. Looking at the When Can I Use charts, I see people forget even Firefox 3.0 had that poor of a score (48%). That was in 2008.
People seem to love spewing out dates. "It's 2010, now!"
IE7 was still broken. IE8, though, is a perfectly reasonable browser, and could be placed in about 2007; while the current IE9 preview lies at about mid-2008, and will probably crawl to mid-to-late 2009 by the time it's released (in 2011? Possibly).
They're catching up.
Actually, I want to take a minute to make a tiny rant about Firefox. People held it up as the ideal, but it was kind of ugly and slow and not nearly as compliant as Opera (until recently) or Webkit. Everyone likes to make a fuss about MS mentioning their Acid3 score, but Firefox was the only other popular browser to not reach 100.
All of that is being fixed; but as is so for IE.
Yes, IE6 was horrible. Yes, IE5.5 made grown men weep in agony. And we can hate those browsers. IE7 can cause some pains, but IE8 is fairly easy to work with and I wouldn't press people against using it. IE9 will be borderline-competetive.
The key lesson: Never let a popular browser stagnate.
That's it. Just the one lesson. IE6 is that browser, but IE9 can be great.
Pete B said on 17 March 2010 at 4:42 am:
Switching to Webkit might be a better use of engineering resources than patching IE
I can almost hear "over my dead body" coming from Redmond.
It's a bit strange these IE announcements; they are admitting in their actions that they have been wrong about pushing their own proprietary technology in favour of using web standards, and yet they stubbornly talk about how right they are, and how 'on track' they are regardless of how much catching up they still have to do.
Matt said on 17 March 2010 at 10:09 am:
IE didn't "win" because it was "better." It achieved dominance because of bundling and practices that have been found by US and EU courts to have been patently anti-competitive.
IE was able to win because of bundling, a practice that ignorant judges once considered anti-competitive but is now a-ok, because really, who the fuck ships an operating system without a web browser?
But IE actually won because it was better than its competitors, and for a long damn time. Microsoft built a better, more innovative, more standards-compliant browser than Netscape, and then Netscape shot themselves in the foot and went broke trying to start from scratch.
IE6 is pretty much garbage now, no question. But don't go rewriting history just because it doesn't favor your little team.
Alain Gerrard said on 17 March 2010 at 10:34 am:
Personally, I believe the it would be better for them to switch to webkit than just patching IE since most average or advance users don't usually use IE.
Lars Gunther said on 17 March 2010 at 10:51 am:
Lots of threads here, picking up on both the the blog post and some comments.
A .If you dislike Microsoft marketing, Apple marketing should make you puke! It's not like they play down their innovations. Every time Steve Jesus (sorry Jobs) walks on a stage he is presenting something "revolutionary", blah, blah. Don't get me wrong. Apple has made a great comeback from all the failed projects they had in the 90's (Taligent, Copland….) but marketing is marketing and hyperbole is hyperbole, even if it's from a fruit company.
If Apple could make a comeback, maybe MS can… Its not like they are a small struggling company or anything like that. And in the time frame of 1997-2001 the showed that they could make the better product. MSIE 6 was leaps and bounds better than Netscape when it came out.
B. To great extent Apple owes it comeback to Mozilla. It was Firefox that broke MSIE's stranglehold of the web and introduced developer tools that made it easy to develop with standards. Webkit owes a great deal of its success to Firefox, not the other way around. The first "dents" made on the monopoly were not made by Apple and Google.
C. Saying that Webkit is THE leading innovator is plain false. Just because there are a few toys right now that Webkit brought out first does not rewrite 5 years of history. Opera has championed more ideas for the web than Apple and so has Mozilla.
D. The most important fight for an open web right now is how to avoid H.264 and both Apple and Microsoft are firmly entrenched on the wrong side. (Did you know that if you make a movie in Final Cut, it is OWNED by the MPEG-LA consortium and not you…) We need a strong Mozilla and a strong Opera to fight the behemoths of Apple, Microsoft and – yes in this case – even Google/Youtube. This cause won't be helped my Microsoft adopting Webkit.
E. I am firmly committed to standards and work on the Interact courses for WaSP, but some people need to lighten up on Acid3. The fact that Firefox – oh the horror – only score 94 is not the end of the world. I am willing to bet USD 100 that 94 % of all people screaming they want Acid3 compliance are perfectly ignorant about what is actually being tested in those 6 failing tests.
I can show you plenty of examples of technologies that Webkit according to various support charts had first, but when Mozilla implemented them in Gecko, they saw that the spec was not clear enough and that some behaviours in Webkit were not really solid.
A prime example is "display: run-in" that has been in Webkit a long time, but nevertheless generated lots of discussion on the CSS WG list when Mozilla started to work on it, for these exact reasons.
Another example is CSS 3 selectors. Webkit was the 2nd browser engine (after Opera's Presto) to pass the test on css3.info, but Gecko was the first to pass the much more thorough test on http://www.disruptive-innovations.com/zoo/css3tests/selectorTest.html So, who really had the "first" CSS 3 selector implementation if one takes quality and completeness into account?
Bottom line: I like the fact that Webkit experiments and move fast. But do not mistake that for being the best rendering engine.
JGarrido said on 17 March 2010 at 11:16 am:
I don't have much to contribute to this conversation other then thinking that Microsoft should just provide the simplest multi-tab, but secure, browser it could offer, and just stay clear of the browser wars – it's already lost ground it could probably never make up, and wouldn't be worth their time/money and effort to attempt to do so.
But I mainly just wanted to say that the background color of this page is very irritating.
Lars Gunther said on 17 March 2010 at 11:22 am:
Now I am replying to myself, but this needs to be said. This is marketing at its worst: http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/
MS makes it look like they have the best SVG and DOM support of all browsers.
Read more about it from Haavard:
So indeed I echo Jeffrey's sentiment about MS marketing. It's just that I do not think they are the only ones to do it.
Niels Matthijs said on 17 March 2010 at 11:46 am:
Cheers to Lars Gunther.
One more thing I'd like to add is that those remaining 15% still left using IE6 are mostly due to our own neglect. IE6 can be made to act according to the specs, if you put in the extra effort.
Most people forced to keep using IE6 (bad apps) simply received a crappy product. We (as a group of professionals) made that product and are partly responsible for the lag of IE6 disappearance.
Jon Gretar said on 17 March 2010 at 2:10 pm:
@Rich Quick #1: Well. That is a bit flawed. People were asked this question were asked it regardless even if the used a computer at all. Actual IE usage rocks between 40% to 60% depending on who is asked. And amongst web power users IE usage drops to nothing really.
Tony C. said on 19 March 2010 at 6:26 am:
i totally agree with Rich Quick most people have a hard time telling the difference between a search engine and a browser. Which in my opinion is really sad, but most people just click the "blue E" (internet explorer) and hop on the internet. I think as technology/computer increases and as it demands for more intellectually-minded people, i think people will read more into choosing a browser that performs to their expectations. But i'm not 100% confident the general public is totally there just yet.
Matt said on 19 March 2010 at 6:26 am:
You can't ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room – any browser Microsoft produces has to be backward compatible with IE6. Forcing a rewrite of a few billion dollars worth of internal web apps (and some very expensive SaS sites as well) is not an option for them, and a lot of those apps were written specifically for IE6. Apple never cared about backward compatibility before OS X, and they still don't care much, which is one of the many reasons their market share is so low. Failing to support their installed base would be suicide for MS, no matter how old and out of date that base is.
The backward compatibility button in IE8 is a decent compromise, though it still produces at least one help desk call for most users. But that wouldn't work if they switched to Webkit, would it?
As for their anti-competitive practices regarding web browsers, I have to disagree with some of that. By bundling IE with the OS for free, Microsoft didn't take advantage of the internet explosion – they created it. If all we had was paid browsers, most of the world would still be running around in walled gardens created by AOL, Compuserve, and Prodigy. Not to say Bill was an angel. His intent was to turn the internet into a killer app – which he did – but also to put MS in a position where they dominated the market – which he also did.
Ultimately, the problem is that IE6 should have been more standards compliant. Nevermind that no browser was standards compliant back then, compliance should have been one of the driving forces behind the design of the product, as it was with Windows 2003. We're all paying for the fact that it wasn't, but that's water under the bridge at this point. The best we can hope for now is for MS to make their current rendering engine as modern and compliant as possible.
Jens said on 19 March 2010 at 10:24 am:
I don't care about what browsers there are on the market. I don't care about how many people use Internet Explorer or Firefox.
I care about web standards. We all care about web standards. Microsoft should acknowledge that and fix it with Internet Explorer 9.
I wish all the browsers were exactly the same at the backend, only different at the frontend. I gives designers and developers like us a peace of mind.
There shouldn't even be a term like crossbrowser compatibility. There shouldn't be a fight what browser has the best engine.
There only should be a fight what browser is the most beautiful one.
Michael McWatters said on 19 March 2010 at 3:53 pm:
@Rindy: untrue. There are users who are consigned to IE6 or other outdated technologies because that is what their companies give them. Punishing the user because of a decision on the part of their company might feel good in the moment, but if it costs you business, it's not a wise decision.
Art said on 19 March 2010 at 6:20 pm:
Yeah, sorry, this article is pretty bad – a negative slant based on outdated info with dubious timing. That's really not what I come here for. If you're going to be in the habit of taking dubious potshots as IE for the sheer hell without knowing what you are talking about of it then you're about as useful as some dude on Slashdot who spells Microsoft with a dollar sign. That's not what I come here to see, and I'm pretty sure it's not what other people want to see (if they're smart, anyway), and I'm pretty sure you're better than that.
Andrew Hedges said on 19 March 2010 at 11:24 pm:
Microsoft finally wakes up to web standards, however late in the game and for whatever desperate reasons, and all you can do is bitch about how their marketing people are trying to do their marketing? This strikes me as particularly bitchy, Jeffrey. It reminds me of an old married couple.
"Don't you use that tone with me!"
"What tone?"
"You know very well what tone!"
I, for one, am ready to give the Microsofties another chance. Their backs are up against the wall. They've been living off of corporate momentum for years now. They know the gig is up and they're (finally) trying to do the right thing.
Let's let them.
anon said on 20 March 2010 at 6:51 pm:
it's not working on XP = score 0/10
Creative Nuts said on 21 March 2010 at 1:20 pm:
Its great to hear that. :)
Al said on 22 March 2010 at 11:04 pm:
major problem I have always had with IE is that security has always been an issue. It also loans very slow.
Also I don't like it how MS double checks for windows key when upgrading IE. That prevents many users to upgrade so they use the old browsers which makes up the web developers to multi test all these latest versions of IE.
IE should be free unconditionally regardless of if your Windows lic. is legit or not
Richard said on 23 March 2010 at 9:06 pm:
I'm cautiously hopeful. IE 8 is the first version of Internet Explorer that didn't completely suck… and by that I mean after getting a site working in Safari/Chrome and Firefox, I don't usually have to do any major rewrites to get IE 8 working at a decent enough level. If IE 9 stays on the same track, it should make our lives a lot easier. (Better late than never, right?)
The biggest problem, though, isn't with IE 8 and wont' be fixed by IE 9. Our biggest problem is that IE 7 and 6 keep sticking around and refusing to die like a bad 80s horror villain. IE 7 isn't so bad; it's not dying fast enough but at least it is dying and should be gone by the end of the year. But IE 6 is a different story.
IE 6 usage is still about 20% (NetApplications), and is dropping by only about 0.8% a month, give or take. At this rate, by April 2011 we'll still have about 10% of Web users on IE 6, and we won't be statistically free of IE 6 until the world ends* in 2012.
Microsoft could fix this by pushing out the most recently available version of IE for everyone's system as a critical update. For those Enterprise shops that really do need IE 6 for their Active-X-based intranets, give them a special standalone version of the browser. But still make people upgrade their main browsers, and make it completely seamless. (And for God's sake, don't limit it to authentic Windows users. You may not care about pirates, but they still use our web sites!)
But Microsoft won't do it.
* The Faux-Mayan Y2K!
Matt said on 24 March 2010 at 6:09 am:
With a third of the market share of IE 6 it is ridiculous to talk about Apple as any sort of player in the browser wars. Just silly. It doesn't really exist on any significant level.
Andri Sigurðsson said on 30 March 2010 at 9:03 am:
I just want to thank you on the great article. When MS finally got off its ass to produce IE7 we thought the same thing, great!, now MS seems to be up to something good. Now we have IE8 and soon IE9 yet optimal web standards supports seems just as far away as ever.
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Porcini Mushroom Meat Loaf with Mushroom Gravy
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Black Bean Salsa
This recipe goes with Cream Of Cilantro Soup With Black Bean Salsa
Yield: 2 1/2 cups
- 1 (16-ounce) can black beans, rinsed and drained
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- 1/2 cup chopped purple onion
- 4 green onions, chopped
- 2 teaspoons chopped fresh cilantro
- 2 tablespoons olive oil
- 1 1/2 tablespoons fresh lime juice
- 1 tablespoon red wine vinegar
- 1/4 teaspoon salt
- 1/4 teaspoon pepper
- Combine black beans, tomato, and remaining ingredients; cover and chill at least 2 hours.
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Categories > Celebrities > My Chemical Romance > The World Is Ours
Chapter Thirteen - Unexpected1 Reviews
Leo came running throught the door. "We found someone." "Who?" "She says her name is Death Day."
Chapter Thirteen - Unexpected
After Death had been depressed for a while, Avenger was determind to find out what was wrong with her. Most of the time, they didn't even talk that much anymore and it hurt him, he used to be able to tell her everything, but they'd grown distant from eachother lately and he desperately wanted to change it.
Death pulled her shirt up and looked down at her stomach, she knew that it would start to become noticeable soon, that she wouldn't be able to hide the fact that she was pregnant. She was wearing a long baggy grey shirt along with sweat pants, she'd purposely been wearing clothes that were too baggy for her to try and hide her slightly swollen stomach. When she heard someone coming in the room, she pulled down her shirt and looked at the door to see Avenger walk in.
Avenger kissed her forehead.
"How are you doing?"
"Good, you?"
"I'm fine."
They were quiet for a moment until Avenger broke the uncomfortable silence.
"Look, I don't really know how to say this, so I'm just gonna say it. Lately you haven't been the same, Death. I'm fuckin' worried about you. Tell me how you're feeling and be honest with me, don't give me any of of this 'Really, I'm fine' bullshit."
"Avenger, I'm not lying to yo-"
"Bullshit. You've been pretending to be okay for weeks. I want an honest answer now."
She didn't say anything.
He sighed. "You really giving me the silent treatment? Alright, if you're not talking I might aswell get something off my chest. I love you, I've been in love with you since I first met you, I'm sick and tired of the casual fucks, I wanna fuckin' be with you, I want be able to love you and I want you to love me back in the same way. You're one of the most amazing people I've ever met, I want you and I always have. I was vocal about how I felt to begin with and you know that, but after a while, I was fucking tired of being nocked down! So now that I've shared my confession with you, will you please just tell me how you're really fucking feeling?" He shouted the last part.
Death had tears in her eyes, she had no idea how much he cared for her. When Avenger saw the tears, he thought that he'd upset her by shouting.
"Look, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to shout it's just that-"
"I'm pregnant, Avenger." She blurted out.
He paused. "W-what?"
"You don't know what pregnant means? Okay well how else can I put it? I'm knocked up, I've got a bun in the oven, I'm with child, I'm eating for two, I'm having a baby, I'm preggers, we're-"
"I know what pregnant means, but you can't be pregnant, just how did this even fucking happen?"
"One of the times you fucked me." She muttered.
"I know how it fucking happened, okay? I'm not that stupid, Death. I'm just . . . shocked."
Death lifted her shirt up again to show Avenger her slightly swollen stomach.
"Fuck. So that's why you've been depressed?"
"Pretty much."
"What the fuck are we gonna do?"
"What do you mean 'we'? You don't have to be apart of this, it's my problem. Not yours." That broke Avengers heart, she really thought that he'd just leave her after everything they'd been through together? He reminded her of how Static was acting
"How can you even say that? I'm not fucking leaving you when you're pregnant with my kid."
"You're telling me you want this?"
"I'm not saying that I'm glad I knocked you up, because I'm not, but it happened, I did get you pregnant, so I'm gonna be there for you and our baby."
"I'm not keeping it."
"You have to, there's no other option."
"Abortion and adoption."
"One, abortion's not even possible anymore in the desert, even if it was, you'd probably die. And two, you really think someone's gonna wanna adopt a kid when everyone can barely even survive themselves?"
"What do want us to do, Avenger? Raise it? We can't raise a kid! We're only kids ourselves! I can be a mom, I can't even look after myself, nevermind a fucking baby!"
"There's my perants, there's my sisters, they can help!"
"They shouldn't have to."
"What about your sister and Iris? They had kids and they're raising them in the desert and Bandit and Zack are just fine!"
"That's different, they have husbands, they're in love with their husbands, they're older, they're indipendent, they have more expirience than me!"
Avenger felt like his heart had been ripped out. "Is that your way of telling me that you don't love me?"
"That's not what I meant-"
"Do you know what, Death? Fine, do what you want. If you want an abortion, then fine, find a doctor and get them to kill it."
He walked towards the door.
"Avenger, don't-" She was cut off by the sound of the door slamming.
Death snook out through the other door and she got into a car, she started driving around until she was completely lost in the desert.
"So, what's it like?" Lypse asked Acid.
"What's what like?" She asked while giving her daughter a small stuffed teddy bear.
"Finding your family again."
She smiled. "It's amazing, but it's weird, too. The last time I saw them I was fourteen, so that was six years ago now."
"I had a sister once."
"Really? What was her name?"
"Rebecca Davis, she was only six the last time I saw her."
"What's your real name, Lypse?"
"Samuel Davis, but everyone called me Sam. What about you?"
"Alexandria Oliveson, but I became Alexandria Way when I got married. I prefered Lexia for short instead of Alexandria."
"You suit Lexia." He smiled.
Leo came running throught the door. "We found someone."
"She says her name is Death Day."
Lexia's heart stopped and her eyes widened. She looked at Lypse.
"Can you watch Bandit while I see her?"
"Sure, we'll just be here."
Acid ran out with Leo to see if it was Death.
When they got there, Acid saw a crying fifteen-year-old girl, it was deffinately her sister. Acid wrapped her arms around her.
"I fucked up so big, Lexia. I fucked up so fucking big."
"Ssh, it's okay. I'm here now. I won't let anyone hurt you, I promise. I love you, Death."
"You don't know what I did. What if you don't love me after you find out what I did, Acid?" The question broke Acid's heart.
"You're my sister, Death. No matter what, I'll always love you. You could never do anything that would make me stop loving you, do you understand me?"
She nodded and cried into her older sister's shoulder.
"Do you want to talk about what happened?"
Death shook her head. "No, I don't want to talk about it. Not yet."
"Okay, then we won't talk about it."
After a few minutes of silence, Death remembered Bandit. "How's Bandit? Is she okay?"
Acid smiled. "Bandit's fine, she's still healthy and she's as beautiful as ever. I swear that girl's looking more and more like her dad every day."
She smiled sadly.
"I have a surprise for you, Death, you're going to love it."
Acid grabbed Death's hand and she started walking to their perants room.
She knocked on the door and her mother opened it.
"Guess who they found?" Acid said with a smile.
Mother War saw Death and wrapped her arms around her in a bone-crushing hug. Death knew it was her mother, but she had no idea how to react.
"I missed you so much, baby."
For a moment, she let herself forget about how she'd messed up, she forgot about everything and the only thing that mattered was her family.
"I missed you too, mom."
A few hours after Death had been reunited with her sister, Avenger managed to find her at the underground.
"How did you find me?" Death asked when Avenger found her.
"My perants know a girl here called Penelope, she mentioned you."
"Why are you even here?"
"One, I love you and two, you're pregnant with my kid. I'm not exactly just gonna let you walk away from me without even trying to find you, am I?"
They were both silent.
"Do you still feel the same way about it?"
"Exactly the same. It's not just unfair to us, it's unfair to them, too, Avenger. It's cruel to bring a kid into this with BL/ind and S/C/A/R/E/C/R/O/W all over the fucking place."
"What about Bandit? You think that your sister and her husband should've gotten rid of Bandit?" He snapped.
"That's different and you know it, Lexia and Gerard thought that BL/ind and S/C/A/R/E/C/R/O/W were gone, they didn't know they were bringing her into this."
"Fine then, what about Iris and Mikey?"
She was quite. "It was there own desition to bring Zack into the world."
"You've changed, Death. You were the girl that brought Better Living down, you were the girl that killed Korse for fucks sake! You used to be Death Day, you were the girl that I loved, you weren't scared of BL/ind or any shit like that. What happened to her? I really fucking miss her."
"Maybe I didn't change, maybe it was you. Maybe I stopped being enough for you. You're the one who told me that you wanted to be with me before BL/ind then you didn't ask me again because you got knocked down. You didn't make it clear enough! I didn't think you thought of me in that way anymore! You're really one to talk considering all of that!" She snapped.
"Well you know what they say, it takes one to know one, Death!" Both Death and Avenger were shouting at eachother now.
"Shut the fuck up, Avenger!"
"Do you know what I think? I think you're scared. You're scared that you can't do something that you've never had to deal with before. This baby is going to be completely dependant on the both of us, you're scared that you can't do this, aren't you?"
"Of course I'm fucking scared of that! I've said this before, Avenger, we're still kids! I can't have a baby, neither can you! That's why I don't want to see you anymore!"
He stopped. "What?"
"I don't want you in my life anymore. I don't want you as the father of the baby, as my boyfriend, as a friend . . . I don't love you. I don't even want to see you anymore." I'm lying, she said in her head. She wasn't lying about the boyfriend part, she didn't think she had any romantic feelings for him, she only loved him as a friend.
Pain tore through Avenger when she said those four words. I don't love you, echoed in his mind.
"You don't want me anymore?"
"No. I don't. I don't want you in my life anymore. I don't want you in this kid's life."
His vision was blurred by tears. "I can live with the fact that you don't want me in your life," he lied. "but that kid in there, that you don't have any control over, it's my baby, too."
"It's not yours! It's not mine! I'm not keeping it, okay?"
"What are you going to do? Just hide the fact that your pregnant, because let's face it that's going to be really fucking hard, then just put it in a Moses basket and pretend that you just found it in the desert or some shit like that?"
Her own visoin was also blurred by tears now. "I don't know! All I know is that when it's born, I can't raise it. I just can't, Avenger."
She walked towards her bedroom door and she opened it.
"Now just do me a favour and walk out the door."
The expression on his face broke her heart. She'd never seen him so hurt in the years that she'd known him.
"Please, just go." She begged.
"Just look me in the eyes and tell me that you don't want me in your life anymore." He said, getting closer to her.
She looked him in the eyes. "I don't want you in my life anymore."
He just stared at her for a few seconds. "Have a good life, Death. I really did love you." He walked out the room and slammed the door shut behind him.
It took Death a few minutes to understand what'd happened. She lay down on her bed and waited for sleep to take her away to the darkness.
A/N Okay, so I know what you might be thinking, 'Really, another girl's pregnant?', but trust me on this one, there is vaild reason for it and you'll find out why in a couple chapters time. If you can, please review. I love you guys ;)


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TOWN OF BRISTOL (WKOW) -- Authorities have arrested a Sun Prairie man for what they're calling a "rolling domestic" incident.
According to the Dane County Sheriff's Office, Hunter Kreger, 18, got into an altercation with an 18-year-old woman inside a moving vehicle. It happened on Sunday afternoon at Highway N and Happy Valley Road in the town of Bristol.
Officials say Kreger was the passenger in the vehicle driven by the Sun Prairie woman. While she was driving, he struck the woman in the face so hard that she lost consciousness, causing the vehicle to drift into oncoming traffic. Officials say Kreger then grabbed the steering wheel and put the car into neutral. The victim attempted to get out of the car, but Kreger grabbed her by the hair and threw her back inside.
The victim did seek medical attention for her injuries.
Kreger was arrested, facing charges of battery, disorderly conduct, second degree reckless endangerment, and intimidating a victim.
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