text:
Good Questions: Are Common Areas for Personal Use?
Hello AT,
We live on the third floor of a small co-op, that's just five units. The owners on the second floor have been using the narrow hallway just outside their apartment as a storage area, leaving piles of shoes and their kid's stroller out there. This past weekend, they hung coat hooks outside their door, and now they're storing their hats and coats and scarves in the hallway, in addition to the pile of shoes and the stroller.
Aside from just being bad manners, is there any sort of general co-op or condo rule that says common areas can't be used for personal storage? Can I play the fire hazard card? Or is it just plain bad manners?...
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I haven't spoken with them yet, and I suppose I'm
partly to blame for not mentioning how unappealing
their beat up shoes were and nipping this in the bud.
I was trying to be pleasant and neighborly, but now I
feel like I live in their closet!
Any and all advice is appreciated.
Thanks! Andi
93 Comments
It's just plain bad manners!
Well, if their coats mysteriously went missing, they might be less likely to store them in the hallway. Just sayin'.
You could just start throwing their stuff away when they are not home.
I have to disagree, kind of. I think it's nice to have enough trust in your neighbors to leave things like a bicycle or similar in the hallway… so long as it's not all over the place obviously. I do sympathize with your situation though if their stuff is ugly and beat-up, and if their shoes stink, even worse!
But, if they're the owners… there probably isn't much you can do about it, and trying to force them by calling building inspectors is probably a good way to start your new apartment hunt.
Your best bet is to just ask them to not leave those things out in the hallway, maybe they have a basment?
My coop has rules about the hallway - no doormats or anything personal. The only thing that can be hung are "non-permanant decorations" which do not permanantly destroy the door. But its way different dealing with a coop of only 5 people! They should understand that nobody wants their smelly shoes and stuff in the hallway.
To remove their things is passive-aggressive and cowardly. Say something. Bring it up in a meeting. But don't take their things.
Why not ask them to put up nice storage? Thin, stapled-to-the-wall shoe racks, etc? I share a hallway with one other apartment, and when their stuff piled up in the hall I suggests that they use some old shelving I was getting rid of. We put it up, the stuff went on it and now it looks organized, not like lots of personal trash.
In my rental building, the landlord posted notice stating that 'for fire safty reasons', nothing can be left in the hallway which obstructs evacuation pathways. Not even pictures on the walls. The notice was posted after inspection from the fire deparment so I am assuming it is because of fire codes. Maybe you could look into it.
Your co-op's proprietary lease may spell out rules about use of common space. My own (which is a boilerplate document, for the most part) specifically says that nothing can be placed in the hallway that blocks the stairs, and that even decorations (pictures) cannot be placed without the agreement of the others sharing the space. I suggest you contact your management company, if you have one, or the Board, and ask that the items be removed.
I guess I'm in the middle of the thoughts on this ... I use the space outside my door, however, I am on the top floor and have a huge landing that no one passes. I therefore asked and got permission to use it for a spot to put-on/take-off wet boots, coats etc and to store my recycle bins.
However, it annoys me to no end that my downstairs neighbor uses the space outside their door (which others must narrowly pass-by) for their garbage dump. No shoes/coats, whatever ... they litterally dump their garbage bags there until garbage day. Not only is it in the way (we have to leave them notes all the time telling them when we have a lot of company or furniture or something coming so they can take their trash in) but it just plain smells. I even once had a guest trip and fall outside their door which sits right at the top of the staircase. Thankfully the tumble wasn't bad.
So I guess all that to say, some use outside your door in certain circumstances, but other circumstances ... no good.
And definitely get the approval of the building before assuming you can do it.
Items like bicycles that are left in a narrow hallway are a fire hazard, and could be opening the co-op up to a fine should the NYFD ever have to come in.
When we had a carbon monoxide scare in my rental building, the fire department was unable to reach the roof easily because of my expletive-deleted neighbors who stored both of their bikes in the hall *and their exercise bike*, which they used out there. The neighbors were not there, but I was, and I got a scathing lecture from the fireman that suffice it to say left a strong impression!
So I would say yes, play the fire hazard card - as a co-owner of the co-op, could you express concern that their behavior is leaving the building open to citation by the NYFD?
I agree with gc. Our condo building prohibits any personal items in the common areas (lobby, hallways) as both a fire code and personal safety issues. All you need is for someone to trip over that stuff and then sue your building...
I'm with Lady J 100%. Find a way to politely discuss your feelings about the hallway. While having to look at their stuff may be less-than-ideal, angry or resentful neighbors would be worse.... If they are reasonable folk, then surely a compromise of some sort can be reached.
I guess I should clarify for fire safety reasons, the landing I use I think was approved because it is on the other side of the top of the stairwell in a dead space that doesn't lead anywhere.
i'd check your co-op's rules. all owners and their tenants are required to abide by them. and if you're in nyc, chances are that this kind of behavior is specifically prohibited in the rules. if it is, and if you trust your super to be discreet, then i'd have the super ask your neighbours to remove their personal items. this way there's no bad blood between you and your neighbours and the super's perceived as just doing his/her job. that failing, i'd contact the property manager. oh and keep a record of all your contact attempts. maybe even take a photo that's dated too. good luck.
As the girlfriend of a fireman, this is against code. Not only that, they are risking your life by blocking your means of egress. They are risking the life of any rescue workers who have to enter the building to save you. It should be in your co-op rules that the hallway remain unblocked. I would speak to your co-op president (I am one) immediatly and have them enforce the rules. If the board needs prodding, ask them how they would like it if they lost their investment because of a neighbors negligence if there was a fire and someone was injured or killed because they couldn't escape.
Can't we have a bit of a heart? There are clearly kids and a whole family living in cramped corners as they try to find ways around the situation. I don't disagree that it's bad manners, annoying, and ugly...but...if it makes their lives a little easier and better, is it really so much for you to overlook??
Totally inappropriate. It's a common space because it's "common" to everyone. You aren't supposed to use it for non-common things like storing your personal stuff. Check your bylaws, you'll likely find something saying personal storage in the hall isn't allowed.
You should ask them politely to move their stuff, and point out that hallway storage is citation material to the FDNY.
i don't think it's a matter of having a heart or not. i live in a co-op containing mostly townhomes that all have their own small yards and tiny front porches. i know that each person gets their own porch and what not, but it's frustrating when people do the same thing and leave a bunch of personal items that belong inside one's home or enclosed yard (like strollers and garden tools) lying all over in front of the buildings. i mean, it's a co-op! my investment isn't just in my own nice, clean place, but in everyone else's too. i expect my neighbors to respect me just as i respect them by not cluttering up our neighborhood with junk that makes it look cheap and uncared for.
If one family's comfort impedes on an entire building's comfort or safety, then NO, you can't overlook it. Just because someone has children, doesn't mean they have more priveleges than the rest of the tenants.
I would approach the co-op president, because it seems to me these people are clueless and will continue to be so.
I say take their things and hide it all around the building.
it is a security issue lisa, for that family as well as everyone else in the building. personal and financial too. it's why these rules are made. if that family can't abide by them, as they agreed to when they purchased their shares, then they need to make a change. it's one thing for them to jeopardize their own saftey, but unconscionable for them to risk others.
i've worked in the real estate law/insurance field and have seen many very bad cases. believe me, you don't want to overlook something like this.
I'm with Alisa -- imagine a smoke-filled hallway and firemen trying to feel their way through to all the apartments to help anyone trapped. It puts everyone at risk unnecessarily!
One thing to consider - even though you have special permission to use the area outside your door, maybe you shouldn't, especially if you don't like it when others do. Even if it is playing by the rules, it still will seem unfair to those who can't also use their spaces. Sort of like pulling out a chocolate cake to eat in front of a diabetic friend.
Lisa your argument makes no sense. If a building is small and passages are narrow then all the more reason for them to be clear of obstruction. These people need to look into devising better storage within their apartment. (Maybe their neighbors might have some suggestions.) Creating a hazard for the other tenants is not the solution.
Those clothes are also flammable. And the last thing you need when trying to evacuate during a fire, is to have to run a gauntlet of flaming clothing hanging in the hallway.
My co-op strictly forbids anything at all in the hallways - this means mats, shoes, boots, umbrellas - etc. They don't even like packages left at an individual's door.
I think it is a rule most co-ops have.
Outrageous! This sort of behavior should not be tolerated. Had they asked beforehand, I might advocate a slightly less-harsh approach.... but they did not, which seems a calculated wager on the likelihood of a response from you. Not very neighborly, which is why I say skip the niceties. Check with your board/your handbook for back-up; surely this type of situation is covered somewhere. If not, get it added in.
Unfortunately, we don't have either a management company or a super (something I've been trying to change) and I'm the unlucky board president.
And, as much I'd like to swipe their things and teach them a lesson, that seems about as right as…well, keeping all your stuff in the hallway.
I understand that they have a kid (and another on the way), but I agree with the poster who said that doesn't mean they should get special treatment.
Obviously, my only course of action is to read our by-laws and see if there's anything mentioned there about common space. Then, go have a word with them.
Thank you all for your comments!
Ona, a) I had permission from the whole building (i.e. the tenants downstairs also) and b) other units in the building have other special priviledges. For example, the people who are messing up the hallways with garbage actually have a small garden area that does not belong to their unit, yet was voted that they could have it as they have a door that overlooks it (and the tenant that it would belong to, didn't want to keep it up.) (This is also why we've all asked why they can't just store their garbage in cans down there.)
I really don't think having a coatrack (which only has coats on it when they're drying) and a closed recycle bin in a space that no one else even sees but me is the same as putting big black garbage bags on the stairs that all of us have to trip (er ... step) over.
Alisa is right. Using the corridor for storage is against fire codes. The public corridor is technically a "means of egress" and cannot be blocked or used for storage, precisely because it is a path of egress. And Lisa, though it may be "nice" and polite to overlook the neighbors keeping their stuff in the hallway, it IS a fire hazard. I would choose NOT risking my life over being kind to the neighbors and overlooking their violation of codes.
My suggestion: politely point out to your neighbor that keeping personal belongings in the hallway is a fire hazard and against fire codes. If they resist and keep their things in the hallway, then contact the fire department to see if they can help you out.
As the condo prez, maybe you could insinuate that others have been complaining about the cluttered hallway to you? A white lie, in case you are feeling non conforntational...
Hey everyone,
for what it is worth....I have lived in two different countries in which this is the standard practice for both shoes and baby carriages (especially shoes--places in which shoes are not worn into the home, for even a few steps, as standard cultural practice). I am not saying that you need to let everyone play by whichever set of rules they want, but just requesting that you give people the benefit of the doubt about things like shoes and baby carriages. They may have no idea this would bother someone. I am an American, but had never lived in a big city apartment building before my experiences overseas, where I got used to doing the same--this well could have been me upon moving back to the States!
Approach them nicely, and don't judge them unless and until they don't respond appropriately thereafter.
With a coop, I would avoid the fire department. This is a case of calling the authorities on yourself. If the objects in the hall are a fire hazard (and they may be,) your coop would be fined for the infraction - not the resident. I would seriously try to solve it in house.
In terms of a fire hazard, if the shoes, baby carriage block the hall, even if only for the tenant in question, it is a violation of fire code - and the coop could be held responsible for not keeping the halls clear, particularly for a long standing storage situation.
In contrast, if the halls are 8 feet wide and the storage only takes up about 2 feet of the width of that corridor and does not infringe on the path of travel for any tenant - then it might be fine in terms of fire code.
You can have stuff in your hallways (think of tables, mirrors, plants in hotel hallways) but it can not block your way out in case of a fire (or the way in for a fireman)
NYC Fire Code says nothing in the hallway. Not even a doormat or a wreath on the door. No umbrellas. Nothing.
i'm confused. do the items block the hallway, or are they just unsightly?
i'm not so sure that it's a blanket rule in all NYC co-ops that there be nothing in hallways, period. i live in a co-op and lots of people have doormats, decorate for the holidays, leave packages next to doors, etc. we have a trash chute and occasionally someone will leave large non-dirty or smelly discarded items like old furniture or cardboard boxes neatly stacked in the hall next to the chute for the maintenance guys to take away. i've never seen personal items stored and i don't know how i feel about that, but if it's blanket policy it sure isn't enforced in my complex (which tends to be pretty sticklerish). i've also lived in rental units where landing and hallway storage was completely OK as long as it didn't block access.
the coats and shoes are a bit much, but i don't see a problem with a stroller if it's not a mess and doesn't block egress. and even with the coats and shoes, i think this is something that can be handled politely -- the family might not be familiar with city living ettiquite.
The NYC Housing Maintenance Code states, in relevant part, that no tenant or other person may: "place any encumbrance before or upon, or cause access to be obstructed to, any fire escape, or obstruct by a baby carriage or any encumbrance the public halls or any required means of egress". Not sure what jurisdiction you are in.
This conforms to what Alex has posted - it can be interpreted to be dependent upon the size of the hallway and the size of the obstruction. The code states that a baby carriage or other item cannot "obstruct" a hallway. It does not say it cannot BE in the hallway at all, but that it cannot obstruct it. (i.e. block the safe passage through the hallway or other area of egress from a dwelling unit)
In this case, it sounds like a narrow hallway and the baby carriage sounds like it would be obstructing. Therefore, I think you have a legitimate complaint about the stroller vis a vis life safety issues.
As for the coat hooks with coats and scarves and the shoes underneath, I don't see how anyone could define this as necessarily obstructing the hallway, unless we are talking about some mighty huge hooks or clown sized shoes! It sounds like its primarily an aesthetic issue. So what? Why be so fricking uptight?
You may find it distasteful. I think it sounds quite homey. I've lived in these types of small buildings before and unit owners (and renters like me) often had little coathooks and shoe baskets outside their doors in the hallways. It made it feel cozy, like we were all a big family.
Personally, I find the idea of a barren hallway, kept aseptically devoid of life by overwrought co-op or condo boards to be the product of borderline petty Mussolinis. (And if a neighbor had the nerve to tell me to stop keeping something in my yard because it was affecting their property values I'd quickly turn a hose on them for being an obnoxious ponce.)
If you are the condo prez, how come you don't know the bylaws and fire codes?
Just askin.'
And PULEAZE, to those who "feel sorry for the family, *needing* the extra storage space, maybe they should have thought about their cramped quarters before creating "another one on the way."
And don't get me started on those who "leave things neatly for the maintenance men to take away." That's just lazy-ass people who want to make their situation someone else's problem.
re: obstruction issue
A stroller "out of the way" ina clearly lit hallway qucikly becomes an obstruction when that hallway fills with smoke or the power fails.
This is sorta on the topic, but what are the rules on hall lights? I'm assuming they must always be on...?? Because someone repeatedly shuts ours off, which not only is a bit creepy, but at dinnertime, we get a lot of angry delivery men who can't find their way up the dark steps until they get to our flight which we always go out and turn back on for them.
OK - I did some followup. From the mouth of a retired NYC firefighter, the gist is:
Baby carriages, bikes, filled trash bags and other large items in the hallway that can block the hallway - bad. Bikes in hallway are especially not good as firefighters loaded down with equipment can get tangled in them.
Coats, scarves, etc. on coat pegs with shoes neatly underneath - ok. They don't get in the way and don't impede egress.
um, patrick, that's what we're supposed to do with large trash items on large trash days. if the complex policy was otherwise i'd gladly haul things to the curb myself, but it's not. it's also part of the job of the maintenance crew, who also take care of the recycling (which is kept in a close near the chute).
in the case of furniture and other household items (i'm talking small things here, side chairs and the like, not couches), it's actually a welcome policy because it makes it easier to empty one's outbox without having to outright throw everything away, or to get the occasional freebie. useful household objects in good condition are generally swept up before the maintenance crew does their daily pickup.
close = closet, sorry.
People have a right to procreate, Patrick. I'm sorry if it offends your sensitive sensibilities that a family might spring up next door and leave some muddy shoes outside their front door. Heaven forbid a little clutter should intrude upon your otherwise antiseptic lifestyle.
Yeesh. How many sticks are up peoples butt's these days?
ridge - are you a tenant or owner? Building owners in NYC are required to follow the sunset to sunrise rule - hallway lighting has to be on from sunset to sunrise. However, lighting must be on 24 hours a day in fire stairs, or stairwells (and i think hallways) where there are no windows or the windows fail to provide adequate lighting. For a coop or condo, lighting in hallways would be the responsibility of the owner (ie. condo or coop vis a vis the board)
Thanks, Dave. I had a feeling it was something like that. I am a tenant and I've talked to the building owner on several occasions about it, and they insist they've notified everyone to keep the stairway lights on, but they're not here to regulate that they do stay on and we can't figure out who it is who is turning them off. Most of the people in our building don't speak English, so I can't walk around asking everyone to please not turn them off, unfortunately.
the family in question has created a fire hazard. this issue is basic consideration of others,in my building there is a metal computer desk, with a note; do not remove, in front of the hall window, which is access to the fire escape for 2 weeks. if there was a fire or emergency live could be affected by this lack of consideration.
ridge - you might talk to your landlord about getting rid of the light switch and hardwiring the hallway lights to a timer or sensor.
Please, please DO have as many children that you can afford to adequately provide appropriate shelter for, as well as the necessities that are required to maintain them in your own home. Not in the part of the building that isn't specifically yours, and I don't really care if the fire department does allow it. It's terrible manners and just don't do it! That's all! Don't! Period! Patrick is absolutely right here, as usual.
I'm (almost) sorry to sound so uncharacterically (for me) emphatic, but I'm just not buying that crap.
Opinions are like a-holes, Curtis. And yours is just that - an opinion.
I agree about the having carriages, bicycles, etc. in hallways. Its potentially dangerous and all around bad form.
But a coat hook and shoes - bah. Some folks get the vapors at the thought. I think those folks need to take chill pill and call the Orkin Man to get the bug removed from their opinions.
wow, this topic s almost as fun as the smoking one the other day :-)
What bugs me about the situation is that, at $1000/sqft for many Manhattan apartments these days, taking up even 3 square feet of space in a common hallway is a lot. They're essentially stealing valuable common space from the other members of the co-op.
Then of course there are the fire issues and the fact that it's unsightly and would lower the perceived value of other units in the building if potential buyers were to see trash - I mean, babystrollers, whatevs - in the hallway. If they can't keep that stuff in their apartment, they need to throw stuff away or get a bigger apartment - but taking up space that is shared by other tenants isn't cool.
Finally - we get to the meat of the matter - people can't live in their homes AS homes if it might - no matter how tenuous the rationale - theoretically affect the sale value of their neighbor's unit.
God - have we really gotten that selfish and uptight as a society? I thought this blog was about creating a home - not about creating a real estate investment. I hope the condo market flattens out for the next decade and y'all lose your shirts.
And exactly how is a coat hook and shoe basket taking up other tenant's space? If no one can use the space for anything (except as a means of walking from one's front door to the building entrance), then its space that has no real practical value to anyone. And if it has no value to anyone, then what exactly has been stolen with a coat peg and shoe basket? (And don't get me started on those nasty condo boards that won't even let unit owners put holiday decorations on their front doors.)
This is all about one group of people (uptight, humorless unit owners in serious need of a Lewinsky) wanting to impose their narrow-minded view of what is the "correct" way to live upon everyone else. We used to call these people "squares" who hip bohemian society would laugh about as the joint was passed around.
Course, this has been going on since the first HOA was formed and ten seconds later the most officious busybody in the building immediately ran for condo board President on a platform of what the right shade of beige to paint the hallways.
Of COURSE people have the *right* to procreate. Just don't come crying when your offspring have outgrown your converted studio and you want to annex the common space (which was my point).
Now, about "sticks up the butt"... I LOVE it when you talk dirty.
(and Dave, my boy, if opinions are like a-holes, you have more than your fair share)
If I have to read one more person saying this is a fire hazard i think i'll scream. we get it - it's dangerous. but, let's be honest - everyone just feels like this family is imposing with the solution they found to a problem they were having in their home. Why is everyone so intolerant of each other and unwilling to give an inch. We aren't super human and need some leverage to get through the day sometimes. We don't have storage space in New York and some people have a real hard time with apartment therapy, especially if they have growing kids.
If this is such a problem or hazardous, just knock on their door and tell them. There are other units in your building, gauge their opinion and get their support. If you are just being uptight, I hope that you wont find yourself imposing on someone in some way one day and wishing people would have more tolerance with you. With all of you people who are SO hard with your lofty opinions and theorist solutions to life.
But they "solved their problem" with a disregard for the fact that they are members of a community (floor/building/city/world).
Disregard is pretty harsh judgment. There are much worse things that neighbors can do to each other than this.
Yes, there ARE worse things, to be sure. But "me first" oblivion to being part of a community is how it all starts.
Try to solve this matter by talking to the people, perhaps they just dont realize that they are doing anything wrong. Blaming other people for complaining, throwing out their stuff or putting up unsigned notes is not a good idea. I used to live in a "fireproof" building (no fire escape) where someone kept throwing out the garbage in the hallway leaving it for the super that only came by every other day instead of taking it down themselves was a problem and other tenants were putting up nasty unsigned notes that only aggravated our messy neighbor. But after I talked with her and pointed out that this was creating a bug problem in the hallway she immediately stopped.
I think it is very unfair to keep your things in the hallway if other people cant, even if you are living on the top floor and they are out of sight for everyone ...your clothes will burn if there is a fire, the clothes-rack also and you know that burning things fall down.
I have lived in a small city apartment with a child. The stroller and the bicycles were in the living-room, the clothes and shoes crammed behind the door, the snow-sled under the bed, the out of season stuff kept in storage. It has never bothered me if people occasionally leave a wet umbrella in the hallway or a set of snow-boots to dry -however these things should not become permanent fixtures in a shared space.
I hope you can solve this problem by talking to your neighbors, most people are nice if you approach them the right way. You can tell them about this website and how it often points out good solutions on storage, how to mount your bike to the wall etc.
Until you're ready to confront these neighbors directly, ideally in tandem with the other neighbors, why not begin to use their coat hooks?
They're in the common area - must be out there for everyone to use, no? And then thank them for their generosity in providing everyone on the floor with additional coat storage space.
My friends do this in their condo, but then so do their neighbors. No one blocks exits. The stroller are tucked into a weird sort of niche. It doesn't bother me at all at their house, but it could never be done in my apartment, because it's basically a straight hallway with no niches--and our board would be all over that, although my friend's apartment is exponentially more expensive than ours is.
We used to live in a coop, and before we hung coat hooks outside out door, at a coop meeting, we asked the rest of the coop if they minded. It's all about being considerate.
OF course blocking hallways/fire hazzards is a problem. But that's different fron the eyesore/rude concern. I agree with the person who said a little hominess can be a good thing. And maybe it's an asian thing, but I think it's totally normal to leave your shoes outside your door, and, come to think of it, my non-asian Brooklyn neighbors across the hall do the same thing. Noo, not all over the hall, but neatly on the doormat. They even bought a little stool that they share with me for sitting and putting on shoes.
In my brother's coop building in Brooklyn, almost every apartment has a coatrack and shoe area outside the door (not blocking the hall). No one seems angry about it, and last time they checked their apartment had skyrocketed in value.
I guess I think, unless it blocks the hall or stinks, live and let live. If it does block the hall or stink, just ask them to take it inside!
LG, and whoever else made a big deal about my space ... here is the set-up of my building (as if its any of your business, but just to illustrate my point) ... we have all lived here since the building was put up ... we all have various little perks to our places that were approved for us as we've all settled in over the years. Examples: the family in the basement now has the free, no-coin-op washer and dryer that was originally made for the whole building as some recent renovation made the laundry room have to become part of their apartment. The rest of us now schlep our clothes down the street to the laundromat. I'm the top floor of a walk-up, so not an ideal situation for me. A unit on the first floor has a garage although it was originally part of another apartment. Doors were moved, etc. to make it part of theirs, per the building owner as the other guy did not have a car. As before, the unit below me has a terrace that goes down to a back garden that is not part of their apartment. Sure, the rest of us would like to spend time down there, I'm sure, but it has been given to them. I have a small-bedroom-sized area on my floor on the other side of the stairway that is empty and is not part of the walkway. The building owner originally had boxes stored there ... once they moved them, I asked if I could use it for a wet-coat and boots area and place to put my recycle bin. No problem.
Now, out of all the perks in my building (and there are some others) is being able to hang my wet coat on a wall on my private floor really the best of all of them? Seriously, you think I'm really that spoiled with that little extra bonus? I only brought up my own circumstance originally to point out that every building has its own set of rules or whatnot ... and since its not your building, don't call me selfish (and equate me to a cruel person shoving cake in my face in front of diabetics) because I have a little extra part of my apartment that no one but you (a non-resident of our building) cares about.
And incidentally ... you think wet boots, umbrellas, etc. are no problem ... if you paid any attention to my post, you'll see that there is only something on the coat rack when it is drying after coming in from rain, or whatever. After that, I bring it inside. I don't need more closet space (neither do any of my neighbors), it's just nice to have an extra landing spot in bad weather.
As for the fire hazard, I'm sure the sprinklers in the hallway will take care of any wild burning that my METAL coatrack might incur.
Oh, and the punchline to your distress over our fire code? We had the fire department EMS around last spring when a friend at my party was having an asthma attack ... after they took care of her, a couple of the guys who came back to the party later that night ... hung their bags and jackets out on the landing when they came in.
I don't think people are allowed to take over space that doesn't belong to them and use it for their exclusive use. I think this is true in most situations.
(I have a mother who is always trying to convince me to do this. Put a small bureau and mirror in the rather large and square hallway off the elevator on my floor. I try to explain to her that you can't do that because everyone has different tastes and while I may think it looks good, neighbors may disagree. She says, "But you have good taste!" "That's what everyone thinks!")
Take your shoes inside people.
Coops have things called "house rules" or other such similar names and these rules set out what is and is not allowed in the coop - normally using the public spaces as you describe is forbidden. Consult the rules first and then, if what they are doing is not allowed, confront them. Then, if they don't remove it you'll have to decide whether you want to rat them out to management.
I think this family's behavior is rude, plain and simple. I'm not so moved by the fire hazard point, nor would I really say it's an aesthetic thing. It's more of a fairness issue to me.
It's true, every building has its own rules and, probably more importantly, its own customs. If I go to look at an apartment and everybody in the building has a basket of shoes outside the door and some coat hooks and there are a few bikes and strollers, I have the option of saying, hmm, I don't like that custom (for whatever reason), but it's clearly the standard in this building, so I choose not to live in this building. It would certainly not be fair for me to move into the building and then start trying to get everyone to take in their shoes and strollers.
The converse is also true. If these people moved in the building and nobody else had their business in the hallway, then what they are doing now is violating the custom -- the social contract of the community, if you will.
By far the most shocking thing to me in this particular situation is that the person writing the original question is the condo board president!! Andi, do exactly what you would do if another owner came to you and complained about this issue. Read the bylaws and go talk to them. If you're in charge, you don't have the luxury of deliberating in your head about your own personal opinion; the rest of the people in your building are counting on you to take care of things like this.
I think it's a safety issue for all sorts of reasons...like tripping, etc. And, (now, keep in mind I can be passive-aggressive) while I wouldn't advocate taking their things, perhaps kicking a shoe or 2 down the stairs might get a message through...though you could talk to them too. Though, if they're so brazen to think they can take over the hallway, chances are they'll think you're nit picking for even bringing it up.
Check your co-op bylaws or whatever...
I'm with Dave! I want him for a neighbour.
Thanks eek. Never ceases to amaze me how people can so much time on their hands that not only do they have enough time to deal with their own lives, but they have enough time to get into a lather over the fact that their neighbor leaves their shoes outside their front door. (The stroller/bicycle issue is an another one entirely.)
And patrick - I don't think its an a priori given that leaving ones shoes (or coat on a rack) is somehow violating the "community" of a building. Its equally plausible to argue that opposite - that getting a cockroach up one's sphincter about a coat peg is a violation of the spirit of "community."
I want to be Dave's neighbor, because then I put my crap in his space and he'll be cool with it.
Dave, are you a proctologist?
so Dave's contributions to this thread include:
1. Yeesh. How many sticks are up peoples butt's these days?
2. Opinions are like a-holes, Curtis.
3. that getting a cockroach up one's sphincter about a coat peg is a violation of the spirit of "community."
talk about "a violation of the spirit of community"
On the hall lights being turned off -- maybe just simply putting a piece of tape over the switch would be enough to keep people from turning it off. That's kind of like the universal sign for "don't mess with this thing" as they'd need to remove the tape to operate the switch.
I didn't realize New Yorkers were so sensitive to salty language. Guess y'alls must be from Park Slope.
Any person in their right mind (that fears for their own safety) would speak to their neighbors first before consulting a site for advice. If you sense a fire hazard the fire dept. would have handed out a summons already. Least that's the way I do things. I can't believe this site is about one of the most heartless, nasty, uptight bunch of morons I've ever encountered. You 'ought try asking your neighbors if they need any help. Make it a point to visit and explain how your concerned for their safety, yours, and others that live there. It's the holiday season and instead of sharing so much hateful advice try sharing a lil bit of your time and compassion for those who may actually need it. Maybe apartmenttherapy.com will give their book as a gift to this family - throw in a couple of things. Maybe others might follow that trend - the trend of giving.
My husband and I own our home and rent out the top floor to some (very, very wonderful) tenants. Because our home is so small, we use a common area for our muddy shoes and raincoats, etc. Our belief is that it is OUR home, and therefore we can treat the common areas however WE want to. However, if our tenants came to us to talk in a reasonable manner about their concerns, we would certainly respond to them. On the other hand, I can tell you that if our tenants tossed out our stuff, or threw our stuff down the stairs, or even complained in some of the irritating ways readers have suggested, it would be a one-way ticket to eviction, or at the very least, non-renewal of the lease. When you live in an apartment building you are part of a community. And, as part of this community, you need to treat others (and especially the OWNER - DUH!) with respect, as you yourself would want to be treated. Do you want a Cold War with your landlord, full of stress, discord and animosity, or do you want a resolution? How would you want to be approached, were the situtuation reversed? Cut your landlord some slack, and go talk to them adult to adult.
I lived for a while in a small apartment building in germany. I never met the neighbors next door, but they kept three pairs of hiking boots outside their door - male, female, and child size. They were beautiful, well-used looking leather boots. Sometimes in bad weather, other shoes would show up too. At christmas time, I opened the door one morning and each pair of boots contained a foil-wrapped chocolate santa. A santa sat by my door as well. It's a small thing, but one of my favorite memories.
An apartment building IS a community.
I think a few pairs of shoes, and what Andi is talking about are different things. There's a difference between "we're going to leave these shoes out here for now" and "hey, let's make the hallway our mudroom."
Dave, for someone with so little time, you yourself have offered a lot of comments.
Meaghan, you OWN that space. Difference with Andi's situation is that EVERYONE owns that space (or a share of it, I guess) so I think it's a different thing.
My personal take is that I hate it when people assume that if they want to do something, it must be okay, and have no consideration for anyone else. I'm not saying these people are evil, but it is pretty presumptuous to install a coat rack. Call me stick-up-the-butt Christine, but I don't see why I must be so much more accommodating of the "community," when it's pretty clear others aren't. I think it's beyond reasonable for Andi to talk to the neighbors....if it were me, I'd say "Hi, I'm Andi, I'm the co-op board president. You know, my friend came over the other day and told me that it's against code to have things in the hallway, and that her condo board/coop board was fined heavily for one of their neighbors' coat racks, so I think you'll have to take it down." Or something like that!
Because, Christine, the coop board WON'T be fined for a coat peg rack on a wall. Period. It is CLEARLY permissible under the New York Housing Maintenance Code. And any coop board member who would claim so would merely be demonstrating their complete ignorance of NYC housing regulations.
Moreover, none of the stick up the butters have yet offered a rationale argument as to how exactly they are being detrimentally affected if their neighbor down the hall installs some coat hooks outside the front door to their unit. Beyond, of course, some completely off-the-wall speculative arguments that it will negatively affect the resale value of their unit.
As for time on one's hand - this cost-less posting on the Interwebs cost me 2 minutes of my time. Not the same thing as taking the time to harrassinate one's neighbors, call the city building inspectors or go complain to the coop board.
I cannot get my head around this desperate attempt to ensure that someone doesn't end up utilizing more space than they are "entitled" to. Lighten up, have some compassion, accept that there are different ways of living in this world, learn to communicate (about the safety issues -if there are any) and most importantly, please don't move in next door to me.
Emma, I think your story illustrates the point perfectly.
Dave, I could see the humor in your phrasing.
wanting ones hallways clear of potentially trip-and-fall causing or fire hazardous clutter like coats, piles of shoes, strollers, etc., whether it's against the code or not, and neighbours who abide by their oath (i.e. to follow the house rules) are very rational arguments. my 78 year old neighbour fractured his hip on shoes left in the hallway. his health is rapidly declining and he can no longer walk the neighborhood as he was fond of doing. he's a lovely man whose quality of life is now crap. now, is that fair? pretty detrimental wouldn't you say?
and what's so wronge about being concerned with resale value? i worked my (to continue Dave's euphemism) butt off for my home and it's the biggest (only) financial investment of my life. of course i'm going to be concerned with its value. talk to any broker - having bad neigbours who don't follow house rules, create hazardous eyesores and cause lawsuits, hugely affects unit values.
it sounds like andi is holding up her end and is going to have a simple conversation with a fellow shareholder about house rules. she's not harrassing anyone.
And there we have it folks - the same old divide of the hips vs. the squares. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.
Pardon me while I go light a "j", throw Dylan's Blonde on Blonde on the stereo, pop open some Two Buck Chuck and see if eek or emma care to join me.
P.S. Lourdes - I develop multifamily and commercial buildings for a living. Brokers are some of the most uniformed twits out there. There's a reason its so easy to become a broker.
Dave - nyc co-ops are entirely different beasts from what you do.
this square's going to bed. g'night, happy holidays and try to cheer up a bit.
Whatever Lourdes. I've been in the real estate development business for over 12 years. In addition to apartment buildings and commercial buildings, I've also built....gasp...condos. Which are pretty much the same thing as co-ops, outside of some peculiarities around the legal structure of unit ownership (fee simple vs. proprietary lease). And no, the NY real estate market and NY co-ops are not "different" as much as New Yorkers like to believe that. The NYC real estate market is the San Francisco one is the Boston one is the DC one is the LA one is the Chicago one.
So, I think I will take my own advice over that of an amateur's. The residential real estate brokerage industry is filled with far too many morons - in large part as its a field with an incredibly low barrier to entry that during boom times tends to attract a lot of folks who's major skills are smiling and mouthing nonsensical real estate platitudes.
well what do you know, i provided business and legal advice to your industry for just about as long and can say the very same about your colleagues. but i won't.
actually dave, it's not about who you take advice from, it's about andi and frankly, i'm sure andi has heard enough.
well that's interesting, Lourdes. are you related to a broker or something such that my comment got under your skin?
p.S. i'm also an attorney (though now non-practicing thank god), so playing the "harrumph, I'm a smartypants lawyer" card doesn't really work with me.
like i've said, the crab-butts have offered zero reasonable arguments re: coat hooks and shoes in the hallway. its just the hips vs. the squares, or in this case, co-op owners who want it to be their home vs. the uptight co-op owners feeling a need to be bossy to protect their precious invesment.
same as it ever was, same as it ever was.
Why do people post tirades about their own living situations/buttholes/occupations as a way of making an argument against decent common living rules? Stress on the word COMMON here.
There's a reason it's called lowest COMMON denomenator - people don't agree, so it's better off to leave it unsaid, unseen, a non-issue.
Good fences make good neighbors, in the burbs. Clean empty hallways make for good co-op neighbors. Do what you want to do inside your own apt.
I'd consult the tenant policy, then talk to your neighbors, and hope that does the trick. We once had a similar sort in a condo, with a nasty mountain of stinkng shoes. Shoes which are really gross and personal. I tried talking, complaints, etc. and ended up moving them out myself.
It's just bad manners.
It is a violation of NYC housing code.
I strongly advise that you do not try to confront them about this yourself. Clearly, if they feel that they have the right to annex the common area for their own personal use, they are the sort of self-entitled people who would, as Dave said "quickly turn a hose on [you]". Don't bother. Just dial 311, and tell the operator that you would like to make an anonymous complaint with the DOB. Not your problem anymore.
And yes, it could cause a fine to the building.
In practice, they should send an inspector to the building within 30 days. If the condition exisits at the time of the inspection, the DOB will issue a fine to the building itself. Probably about $500. Then the Co-op Board will pass that fine on to the individual responsible for the complaint.
I should say, the individual responsible for the violation.
I'm unclear(and it's possible I missed this somewhere in the comments), but are the shoes/rack/stroller at the end of a hall where no one walks by and you have to look for it to see it, or do folks have to trapse by it? I think that might say something to the family's rudeness level. Or not. They may feel it adds a homey touch.
It's too bad they didn't talk to folks in the building before taking the area over.
As for the baby stroller...as someone who has sprained her ankle being 'ambushed' by one around a corner someone had left outside their door at a friends apartment building -- I definitely think this is something they should be hanging up right INSIDE their door.
Irregardless, check the bylaws. You may need to thnk about the approach on the shoes and coats if that's not covered. But the stroller...that is a legitimate hazard.
Is this thread closed?


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30 Day Pokemon Challenge
Day 15:
If you could live anywhere in the Pokemon world, where would it be?
Well since my favorite region is Hoenn, I decided to narrow it down to the cities that take place there. And I ended up with Mauville City. Only because it's pretty much right in the middle of everything, and has easy access to all the other cool places that are nearby.


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By Matthew Perpetua
Madonna will premiere the video for "Give Me All Your Luvin," the first single from her new album "MDNA," on this Thursday's episode of "American Idol." The song, which will include guest appearances from Nicki Minaj and M.I.A., will be released as a digital single exclusively in the iTunes store the following day, and Madonna will perform it Sunday at the Super Bowl. The video, which was directed by Megaforce, will have a football and cheerleader theme.
Bing: Watch Madonna videos
"MDNA," Madonna's first album as part of her new deal with LiveNation and Interscope, will hit stores on March 26. An early version of "Give Me All Your Luvin" leaked to the Internet in November, but this video debut will be fans' first chance to hear the completed version with vocals from M.I.A.
You can watch a brief teaser clip in the video below.
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Spice Girls Will Reunite for Queen's Diamond Jubilee
Original Lineup of Happy Mondays Reunite for Tour
Hundreds Gather for the Funeral of Etta James


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Rapid Assessment of Perceptions, Knowledge, and Practices Related to Immunization Injection Safety in Nepal
This eye-opening report gives an in-depth look at immunization practices and concerns among immunization providers and managers in Nepal. The report shows that despite adequate training and supply of vaccines, availability of proper disposal training, as well as other materials like needles, syringes, and fuel, continue to impact vaccine safety.
Author(s): PATH and the General Welfare Pratisthan
Published: 2001
Download file (English)
322 KB PDF (Located at www.path.org)
Resource types: PATH resource
Diseases: Not disease/vaccine specific
Topics: Introduction and service delivery; Injection safety and waste management
Regions: Asia


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We've received word that North Phoenix music venue and restaurant The Compound Grill shut its doors for good this past weekend. A message on the establishment's website announced its closure and states that refunds are available to anyone who purchased tickets to upcoming concerts. Owner John Larga ... More >>
Brooks Hansen has big dreams and songs to sing.Tonight is going to be a landmark event in the life of Tempe-based singer-songwriter Brooks Hansen. The shabbily dressed 26-year-old acoustic guitarist is planning an "epic" street corner performance near the intersection of Fifth and Roosevel ... More >>
Canadian band legally crosses the border to perform at Modified
The mountain says what
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University Holidays and Summer Schedule
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Roundabout Project Update
|Date: Thursday, May 22nd, 2014
|Return to Archive
Oaklawn Way will reopen tomorrow, Friday, May 23rd. Loving Way will close on Tuesday, May 27th at 6:00 AM. Detours will still be in place. Please use caution when traveling in the area.
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text:
|At-Turaif District in ad-Dir'iyah
|Name as inscribed on the World Heritage List
Saad ibn Saud Palace.
|iv, v, vi
|UNESCO region
|Arab States
|Inscription history
|2010 (34th Session)
Diriyah[1] (Arabic: الدرعية), formerly romanized as Dereyeh[2] and Dariyya,[3] is a town in Saudi Arabia located on the northwestern outskirts of the Saudi capital, Riyadh. Diriyah was the original home of the Saudi royal family, and served as the capital of the first Saudi dynasty from 1744 to 1818. Today, the town is the seat of the Diriyah Governorate, which also includes the villages of Uyayna, Jubayla, and Al-Ammariyyah, among others, and is part of Ar Riyad Province.
The Turaif district in Diriyah was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2010.[4]
The ruins of the old city of Diriyah lay on either side of the narrow valley known as Wadi Hanifa, which continues southwards through Riyadh and beyond. Consisting almost entirely of mud-brick structures, the ruins are divided into three districts, Ghussaibah, Al-Mulaybeed, and Turaif, set on top of hills overlooking the valley. Of the three, Turaif is the highest, and its bottom is easily accessible to tourists by foot. Part of the city wall, running along the edges of the wadi and also made of mud-bricks, are still extant along with some short observation towers.
The modern city is built at a lower altitude at the foot of the hill upon which Turaif is located. To the north of the town, inside the valley, are a number of gardens, palm groves, and small farms and estates. A dam known as Al-Ilb lies further north.
Although the location is sometimes identified with an ancient settlement mentioned by Yaqut and Al-Hamadani known as "Ghabra",[5] the history of Diriyah proper dates back to the 15th century. According to the chroniclers of Nejd, the city was founded in 1446-7 by Mani Al-Mraydi, an ancestor of the Saudi royal family. Mani and his clan had come from the area of Al-Qatif in eastern Arabia, upon the invitation of Ibn Dir', who was then the ruler of a group of settlements that now make up Riyadh. Ibn Dir' is said to have been a relative of Mani' Al-Mraydi, and Mani's clan is believed to have left the area of Wadi Hanifa at some unknown date and were merely returning to their country of origin.[6][3]
Initially, Mani' and his clan, known as the Mrudah, settled in Ghusaybah and Al-Mulaybeed. The entire settlement was named Al-Dir'iyah, after Mani's benefactor Ibn Dir'. Later on, the district of Turaif was settled.[3] Many families from other towns or from the bedouin tribes of the nearby desert eventually settled in the area and by the 18th century Diriyah had become a well-known town in Nejd.
At that time, Muhammad ibn Saud emerged from a struggle within the ruling family of Al-Diriyah, the Al Migrin (sons of Migrin, a descendant of Mani'), and became the emir, or ruler, of Al-Diriyah. In 1744, Ibn Saud took in a fugitive religious scholar named Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who hailed from the town of Al-Uyaynah, lying on the same wadi some 30 miles upstream. Ibn Saud agreed to implement Ibn Abdul Wahhab's religious views, and what later became known as the First Saudi State, with its capital at Diriyah, was born. Within the next several decades, Ibn Saud and his immediate descendants managed to subjugate all of Nejd, as well as the eastern and western regions of Arabia, and sent raids into Iraq. Diriyah quickly swelled in size and increased in wealth, becoming the largest town in Nejd and a major city in Arabia by the standards of the time. However, the Saudis' conquest of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina drew the ire of the Ottoman Empire, the major Islamic power at the time, led to the Ottoman-Saudi War of 1811–1818 and an invasion of Arabia by Ottoman and Egyptian forces brought the Saudi state to an end in 1818, with Diriyah capitulating after a nearly-year-long siege. The leader of the invading force, Ibrahim Pasha, ordered the destruction of Diriyah. However, when a member of the local nobility tried to revive the Wahhabi state in Diriyah, Ibrahim ordered his troops to destroy the town even further and set whatever was left of it on fire. When the Saudis revived their fortunes in 1824 and again in 1902, they made their capital further south in Riyadh, which has remained their capital ever since.[7]
"The Ottoman Empire viewed the Arab challenge with alarm- especially after the loss of Makkah and Al-Madinah, and the deletion of the Ottoman emperor's name from Friday prayers- and an Egyptian army under Ibrahim Pasha was sent to recover lost territory. In 1818 the army entered Dar'iya and after a six month siege penetrated the defenses on the Turaif, totally destroyed the houses and cut down every tree in the palm groves. The Egyptians were estimated to have lost 10,000 men in the siege, and the Saudi forces 1,800."[8]
The town's original inhabitants left Diriyah after 1818, with the bulk of them moving to Riyadh. In The Kingdom (first published in 1981), British author Robert Lacey observed that the Al Saud had "left the shell of their old capital behind them, an enduring reminder of the frontiers of the possible" and compared the old Diriyah to "a sand-blown Pompeii".[7] However, the area was resettled in the late 20th century, mostly by former nomads (bedouin), and a new city was founded by the Saudi government in the late 1970s.[9] This new city of Diriyah grew in size and is now a small but modern town and the seat of its own governorate. The ruins remain a tourist attraction, and are subject to a slow restoration project on the part of the Saudi government.
Renovations and development plans[edit]
Among the rebuilt structures are the Bath and guest house, the Qasr Nasr, the Saad bin Saud Palace (finished by the early 90s), the Burj Faysal (a wall tower renovated in the 80s), major sections of the wall surrounding Turaif and sections of the outer walls and some watch towers surrounding the wadi. Outside of the Turaif district, on the opposite side of the wadi Hanifa, the region of the mosque of Sheik Mohammad bin Abdulwahab has been completely remodelled, leaving only some of the more recent original structures standing to the north of the complexe build on the site of the historic mosque.
The "Turief District Development Plan" aims to turn the district into a major national, cultural and touristic center.[10] Before turning the complete site into a modern open air museum documentation and necessary investigations, including excavations especially in places that may need to be remodelled, are planned in three major phases. These wil include sites such as:[10]
- Al-Imam Mohammad bin Saud Mosque and Salwa Palace.
- Ibraheem Ibn Saud Palace and Fahad Ibn Saud Palace.
- Farhan Ibn Saud Palace, Torki Ibn Saud Palace and Qoo'a Al-Sharia'a (eastern court of Salwa Palace)
Once finished, there will be a new visitors center as well as a documentation center. Four new museums are planned for the district.[10]
- A museum of war and defense (as this was the site of a major siege in Saudi Arabia).
- A museum of horses.
- A museum of social life.
- A museum of commerce and finance.
Additionally a Turief traditional market will add to the open air museum experience.
Main sights[edit]
The old city's historic structures include:[9]
- Salwa Palace. It was the residence and first home of the Al Saud Amirs and Imams during the First Saudi State. It is considered the largest palace on the site, rising four stories high.[9] It is composed of five main parts built at different consecutive periods of time. It was probably finished by Saud ibn Abdul Aziz ibn Muhammad ibn Saud, who was Imam from 1803 to 1814.
- Saad bin Saud Palace. One of the largest palaces on the site, it is famous for its courtyard, which was used as a stable. The palace is completely restored and several stories high.
- The Guest House and At-Turaif Bath House[11] a traditional building consisting of a number of small courtyards surrounded by rooms. The Bath House is famous for its different architectural styles and shows how the building was waterproofed by using different plasters. Both the Guest and Bath Houses were supplied with water from a well in the wadi.
- Imam Mohammad bin Saud Mosque, a mosque built during the reign of Imam Mohammad bin Saud. Sheik Mohammad bin Abdulwahab used to give lessons about his reformed movement of Islam in this mosque.[12] It became a center for religious education. Students used to travel to it from all parts of the Arabian Peninsula.
- Mosim Park: Football ground in the Nakheel area. It is home to football team Mosim FC, who are called The Pride of Dir'iyah. Mosim Park was erected in 2007 after Mosim FC moved there from their old ground downtown of Riyadh.
The layout of the city itself can be easily studied in the National Museum of Saudi Arabia with the help of a large scale detailed model of the city on display there.
- ^ Also written as "Al-Diriyah", "Ad-Diriyah", "Ad-Dir'iyah", "Ad-Dar'iyah", or "Dir'aiyah".[citation needed]
- ^ "Dereyeh" in the Encyclopædia Britannica, 9th ed., Vol. VII. 1879.
- ^ a b c Rentz, G. "al- Dir'iyya (or al-Dariyya)." Encyclopaedia of Islam. Edited by: P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel and W.P. Heinrichs. Brill, 2007. Brill Online. CDL. 5 November 2007 [1]
- ^ [2]
- ^ Abu Abd al-Rahman Ibn Aqil al-Zahiri, Opening Article, Ad-Diriyah Magazine, Vol. I, No. 1, May 1988 [3], quoting Muhammad al-Essa. In support of this identification, Ibn Aqil mentions that one of the nearby creeks is still known as "Ghubaira", the diminutive of "Ghabra".
- ^ Al-Juhany, U.M., Najd before the Salafi Reform Movement, Ithaca Press, 2002, ISBN 0-86372-401-9.
- ^ a b Lacey, Robert (1982). The Kingdom. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. pp. 60–63. ISBN 0-15-147260-2.
- ^ Mostyn, Trevor. "Dir'iya." In: Saudi Arabia: A MEED Practical Guide. Second edition. London: Middle East Economic Digest. 1983. Pages 246-247.
- ^ a b c Ionis Thompson, Desert Treks from Riyadh, Stacey International, London, UK, 1994, pp. 6–7, ISBN 0-905743-76-8
- ^ a b c "Turief District Development – Renovating the Local Arabic Architecture" in "Open Ends for the Local Architecture – Contemporary Practices in Saudi Architecture" by Mashary A. ALNaim and Tariq M. Abd El Fattah in Albenaa Magazine, issue 208, February 2008 (Safar 1429) ISSN 1319-206 X
- ^ Al-Turaif Bath House and the Guest Palace, KSA-Deputy Ministry of Antiquities and Museums, 2000, ISBN 9960-19-438-8
- ^ Rodolfo C. Estimo, Jr. Diriyah: A glimpse into bygone era. Arab News: Wednesday, January 30, 2013. Vol. XXXVIII, no. 59.
External links[edit]
|Wikimedia Commons has media related to Diriyah.
- Photo gallery (Arabic)
Coordinates: 24°44′00″N 46°34′32″E / 24.73333°N 46.57556°E.


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Here's Where Your Living Will Can Be Ignored When You're A Pregnant Woman
Frightening, but I guess there's no better way to show you think women are no better than incubators than ignoring their living will.
Here's Where Your Living Will Can Be Ignored When You're A Pregnant Woman
Frightening, but I guess there's no better way to show you think women are no better than incubators than ignoring their living will.
" In an indicator of the role that amateur video now plays in the news landscape, 40% of all the television user-generated content analyzed and 20% of digital content dealt with the conflict in Syria, a very dangerous environment for newsgathering. According to the press monitoring group Reporters Without Borders in the past three years, 117 citizens reporting the news have been killed in Syria compared with 36 professional journalists. "
well that seems random and will not make any difference on the ground.
Rennie Gibbs's daughter, Samiya, was a month premature when she simultaneously entered the world and left it, never taking a breath. To experts who later examined the medical record, the stillborn infant's most likely cause of death was also the most obvious: the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck.
But within days of Samiya's delivery in November 2006, Steven Hayne, Mississippi's de facto medical examiner at the time, came to a different conclusion. Autopsy tests had turned up traces of a cocaine byproduct in Samiya's blood, and Hayne declared her death a homicide, caused by "cocaine toxicity."
In early 2007, a Lowndes County grand jury indicted Gibbs, a 16-year-old black teen, for "depraved heart murder" — defined under Mississippi law as an act "eminently dangerous to others…regardless of human life." By smoking crack during her pregnancy, the indictment said, Gibbs had "unlawfully, willfully, and feloniously" caused the death of her baby. The maximum sentence: life in prison.
Seven years and much legal wrangling later, Gibbs could finally go on trial this spring — part of a wave of "fetal harm" cases across the country in recent years that pit the rights of the mother against what lawmakers, health care workers, prosecutors, judges, jurors, and others view as the rights of the unborn child.
A judge is said to be likely to decide this week if the case should move forward or be dismissed. Assuming it continues, whether Gibbs becomes the first woman ever convicted by a Mississippi jury for the loss of her pregnancy could turn on a fundamental question that has received surprisingly little scrutiny so far by the courts: Is there scientific proof that cocaine can cause lasting damage to a child exposed in the womb, or are the conclusions reached by Hayne and prosecutors based on faulty analysis and junk science?"
(Source: behance.net)
seriously! mothers with substance abuse problems should be offered help to get clean and become the kind of parent their children need—putting the kids in foster care indefinitely while their mothers are criminalized and further traumatized is not the solution.
A New Mexico state task force's report found that some women decide not to seek prenatal treatment because they fear they'll be arrested for testing positive for drugs. In turn, it recommended that the state develop more comprehensive programming aimed at harm reduction among pregnant moms and create a public education campaign to bring attention to services that are already available.
The task force's findings are even more important in light of what's been happening nationwide. Late last month, Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam signed a bill into law that criminalizes moms who use drugs during pregnancy, making it the first state in the country to explicitly allow prosecutors to do so. Last year, health officials reported 855 cases of babies being born addicted to drugs. But critics of such legislation contend that criminalizing pregnant moms will only make addiction worse. "A pregnant woman struggling with drug or alcohol dependency will now be deterred from seeking the prenatal care she needs," Hedy Weinberg, the executive director of the ACLU of Tennessee, told The Tennessean.
"It's not something that people do for fun," one mother says of drug and alcohol addiction. "A lot of times we're told, 'if you love your kids, you wouldn't do it.' But it hasn't nothing to do with the love you have for your kids. It's a sickness…When you're judged as a drug addict and a parent, it's a lot harder to become sober and clean because you just want to numb what they say about you."
thanks to ash for this. it is great information. solid.


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KALAMAZOO (WKZO) -- Detroit Federal Judge Bernard Freidman has struck down Michigan's ban on gay marriage. It follows rulings by other federal judges around the nation who have also cited the 14th Amendment right to equal protection, just before they tossed out local or state bans on same-sex marriage.
Michigan becomes the 18th state to either vote to allow gay marriage or have it imposed by the courts.
Meg Bower at the Gay Lesbian Resource Center in Kalamazoo says the celebrations began almost immediately. They salute the two nurses from Detroit, April Deboer and Jayne Rowse who were brave enough to bring the suit.
Kalamazoo County Clerk Tim Snow says he is waiting to hear from the Attorney for the State' Clerks Association before deciding what he will do Monday Morning, but the Clerk of Washtenaw County says they will open Saturday morning and start issuing marriage licenses.
State Rep. Sean McCann says until a higher court says otherwise gay marriage is the law and the Kalamazoo County Clerk should also begin offering licenses.
It was expected that Judge Friedman would issue the stay himself but that did not happen, setting off a scramble at the Attorney General's office to file for one.
Until the sixth circuit court of appeals actually rules, Cooley Law School Professor Devon Shindler says clerks must issue licenses to gay couples.
Schindler says because Judge Friedman held a full hearing before making his decision, the higher court may be reluctant to issue a stay or a reversal.
He says the Michigan Case will eventually go on the pile of similar rulings sitting at the U.S. Supreme Court, waiting for a ruling on the equal protection issue, and the question of same sex marriage will be settled once and for all.


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The network made the move after airing 2 episodes of 'Gentleman.' 'Rules of Engagement' joins the Thursday programming block starting Oct. 20. 'Gentleman' begins airing Saturdays on Oct. 15.
Created, written by and starring David Hornsby, 'How to Be a Gentleman' is based on the book of the same name by John Bridges. 'Entourage' veteran Kevin Dillon and '24' scene-stealer Mary Lynn Rajskub also star.
The first episode of 'Gentleman' was watched by roughly 9 million viewers. The second episode was down to 7.5 million.
'Rules of Engagement' has bounced around CBS's schedule for six seasons, often acting as a midseason replacement. The ratings for last season bounced around from more than 9 million viewers to 7 million or so.
Tell us: Will you follow 'How to Be a Gentleman' to Saturdays?


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Biography: Born 11/12/2008, now 1 year old. loves to run and swim in and around the Mississippi river! Learning to hunt!
Here at The Daily Puppy, we love puppies of all shapes, sizes, breeds, and colors. We encourage visitors to browse our puppy picture archives to look at all the adorable photos of past daily puppies, and to bookmark this page and visit often to see what cutie-pie graces the front page. Want us to run a feature of your special little puppy? We are always looking for submissions of the cutest puppies on the planet.
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Club/Student Facilities Usage
Have your adviser check the Facilities and Athletics Calendars to see if your date is available.
Fill out this form and submit it in a timely fashion to the Activities Director.
There is no charge for student groups and clubs to use EVHS Facilities. Custodial and Security charges may apply.
Outside Groups use of Facilities at EVHS
Any outside group must fill out this form and contact Mr. Kleckner directly for the proper forms and fee information for using EVHS Facilities.
If you plan to use the theater you MUST schedule sound booth technicians via Mr. Chavez and provide proof of their schedule before your event will be approved.
Custodial, Security and Technician fees will apply


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The challenge of creating sustainable housing
Dr Susan Roaf lectures at Oxford Brookes University, School of Architecture and lives in the Oxford Ecohouse which she designed
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2. Perspectives
In this section we attempt to present short essays on emerging trends and technologies that OUCS has been involved in over the year. We have built up links with departments and colleges and constantly look to investigate technologies in answer to our users' needs. The following sections highlight some of the areas we have been focusing on.
2.1. Reducing the IT Carbon Footprint
The University of Oxford has set up an Environment Panel to advise on the environmental implications of University policies and activities and to encourage the proper consideration of environmental factors in the University's decision-making processes. One of the factors the Panel advises on is the reduction of energy consumption within the University. This obviously has an impact on the way we currently use ICT and will influence future plans, but more information is needed about how and why changes can be made.
2.1.1. Low Carbon ICT Project
Since October 2007, OUCS has been working on a JISC-funded project entitled Low Carbon ICT. The purpose of this is to provide practical examples of how an institution can implement both the policies and the technologies to conserve energy used by desktop and server hardware with the minimum of disruption to users and system administrators. This will provide a important case study and forum for other organisations looking to adopt similar strategic goals. The project will feed directly back into the University's environmental panel to further enhance University environmental policies.
By using new technology and changing computer management regimes, it should be possible to significantly reduce the University of Oxford's ICT carbon footprint. Potentially Oxford's annual power use could be reduced by a minimum of 2GWh, saving c. £200k, and preventing the production of over 1,100 tonnes of carbon dioxide each year.
It is important to take a holistic approach to develop an environmentally sustainable ICT strategy because savings in one area can have a negative effect in another. For example, poorly designed energy saving measures could compromise security through interrupting essential software updates. It is also important that the core strategic goals of the University are not unduly impacted, namely to conduct research and teaching. It is essential to bring together technical, research, communications, and training skills from across the University to ensure this necessary broad perspective is adopted.
Two strategies for saving energy and reducing the Universities carbon footprint are discussed further here - Wake on Lan (WoL) and Virtualisation.
2.1.2. Wake on Lan
One of the main aims of the Low Carbon project is the widespread introduction and uptake of Wake on Lan (WoL) to Oxford.
For end users, WoL technologies allow people to switch off their desktop machines when away from them for lengthy periods, whether overnight, at weekends, on holiday, at a conference, or even when in a meeting or laboratory all afternoon; but restart them locally or remotely if needed. With normal switching off, someone has to press a button on the machine itself to restart.
For system administrators, WoL facilities will enable them to switch clusters of machines on and off depending on the department's energy saving policy and requirements to update system software on desktop machines. For example, an administrator may switch off a teaching cluster of machines over the weekend then switch them on to install a security patch.
In short, WoL facilities allow the energy saving advantages of switching machines off with the ease of access and update of machines being continuously on.
Recent data from one University department shows that their energy use shows only moderate daytime peaks. This is indicative of a building with its computers on 24 hours a day. The figure below shows the current demand pattern compared with the lower demand pattern that might be expected were the computers to be switched off overnight. The overall electrical savings could be up to 20%. With machines being switched off at weekends, and other planned absences, the possible savings are even greater.
2.1.3. Virtualisation Technology
The NSMS section of OUCS has recently introduced a virtualisation service that enables system administrators to consolidate their existing servers onto centrally managed machines. By exploiting virtualisation technology, it is possible to support 10-15 servers (Windows, Linux, or Netware) on two physical servers. This can save on capital costs for hardware and also provide enhanced management options that can significantly increase the resilience to failure of the IT set up.
As far as the Low Carbon Project is concerned, the benefits of this approach come through minimizing procurement, which reduces the environmental impact caused by the manufacturing and transport of new server machines. The project will monitor the procurement practice of units throughout the university to measure the corresponding reductions on the environmental pressure due to less manufacturing and transport. Fewer physical servers will also mean lower demand for specialist air-conditioned rooms, which consume large amounts of energy.
2.2. Third-party IT services
In the dim and distant past (e.g. thirty years ago) OUCS was the sole provider of computing services to the University. In the recent past (e.g. fifteen years ago), other parts of the University began to provide their own computing services of various kinds. Now we are moving into a third age in which computing services of various kinds are available to the University from many different providers. A department, college, or other unit, might decide to use authentication services provided by OUCS, but to run its own mail server, and to host its websites with an external service provider unaffiliated to the University. Increasingly, major IT services such as web hosting, distributed filestore, digital archiving, groupware solutions, and many niche software applications are being provided as commodity services, using a variety of business models. A unit might, for example, decide to manage its projects with a tool such as Basecamp, to share documents amongst its members using Google Docs, to archive digital images using Flickr, or even to recommend Hotmail to its students. This richness and diversity of choice makes this a good time to be a user of such services, but also provide challenges for those responsible for the University's strategic direction and long term interests.
As a small contribution to that strategic thinking, OUCS has prepared a check list of considerations which we recommend should be taken into account when evaluating ways of supplying any IT-related service, in particular where that service might be "contracted out" to a supplier outside the University.
The check list is reproduced below and can also be accessed online at: http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/internal/3rdparty/checklist.xml
What guarantees are provided about support or level or service? Are they adequate for the intended use? For example, if the service is unavailable for an extended period of time, how seriously would this affect the unit's activities?
Is there any agreement concerning continuity of the service? How serious is the risk that the service might change its policies, or prices, or go out of business? For example, does the unit care if a free service becomes a paying one, or one subsidized by advertising? Does the unit have an alternative or exit strategy in such an eventuality?
What level of support activity will be needed? Is the service widely used by comparable units outside Oxford? What is its public perception? Is there a strong community of existing users who can provide peer support, or will the unit need to seek or provide specialist training? Does the service provide (e.g.) a hotline for academic or technical support issues beyond the run of the mill? Is it likely that existing IT support networks (for example OUCS Help desk) would be able to provide first line support?
If the proposed service overlaps wholly or in part with a service already used by the unit, what will the support costs be in moving existing users? Is migration without loss of information simple, technically feasible, or impossible? Does the proposed new service have all the functionality of the existing one (for example, does it provide the same or enhanced levels of security, backup, etc.)?
Will introduction of the new service affect other existing services, for example by reducing or increasing their importance or requiring changes in them? Is there a risk that the service would increase for example network traffic or spam beyond currently acceptable thresholds?
Is the service (or something analogous) already being used by some other unit? If so, is there scope for co-operation for example in licensing or in pooling of support activities? Alternatively, is there a risk of confusion or lack of data integrity if the same service is provided under different brandings within the University?
Strategic and legal considerations
How well does the new service conform to established University strategic priorities or practice? For example, can it take advantage of current university-wide authentication and identification systems? Is it equally usable in all hardware and software environments of importance to the unit? Does the new service open the unit to possible additional risk with respect to its legal obligations, such as privacy legislation, or contracts (JANET regulations)? Is the service provided under terms specified by an enforceable contract between the service provider and the University?
Are the terms and conditions appropriate for the intended use? For example, if the service will store or manage material in which the unit has rights, do the terms and conditions adequately protect those rights?
Are the terms and conditions adequate for the intended use? For example, who may access the unit's data and in what circumstances? Is usage of the service auditable by the unit (for example, to track any alleged abuse)?
What are the cost-benefit implications of using the new service? What is the total cost (or saving), taking into account all the above considerations, of using this service as opposed to expanding (or continuing with) an existing internal service or doing without? How will that cost be met?
We believe this checklist provides a good basis for the evaluation of 3rd party IT solutions, and have applied it ourselves when considering an externally-provided groupware solution for use within OUCS.
2.3. And the Survey Said…
We often hear about the future being mobile, secure, 'anywhere anytime' computing but do we have really know what technology our university students are currently using in their day-to-day lives? Over the last four years OUCS has conducted annual surveys of new students at the Freshers' Fair in order to ascertain their IT ownership and ICT skills. This data gives information on trends among the incoming student population to help inform future service provision.
As a typical example, the 2007 survey details were based on 621 students. The age range was between 19 and 24.
Laptop ownership far outweighs ownership of desktop computers and almost all students have a mobile phone. Memory sticks, MP3 players, and digital cameras have seen steady increases over the four years of the survey.
Of these computers, PC/Windows machines are still the most widely used platform but are at their lowest level since the survey started in 2004. Mac and Linux machines are increasing and account for 15% (from 8% in 2004) and 3% respectively.
In terms of ICT training, the most popular requests were for training in databases, graphics programs, and programming. Graphics programs are the only category to show a consistent increase, possibly due to the rise in digital camera ownership.
When asked what they use the internet for, most fresher students said e-mail communication (more than 90%), followed by those who use it for general surfing websites and chat (both over 70%). The most dramatic increases are in the use of chat and sharing photos.
A question on the use of social networking sites was added this year, and the results show the Facebook service has reached almost universal coverage (96% usage) and obviously is now as popular out of University social circles as within.
Email and Messengers are the two preferred communication channels between students. A significant increase has occurred in the use of internet telephony services such as Skype conferencing software and the (possibly related) ownership of webcams.
2.3.1. Conclusions
With their laptops, mobile phones and MP3 players, coupled with easy access to wireless facilities, students are ready for 'anywhere anytime' computing. OUCS needs to maintain and enhance its facilities, training, and advice relating to podcasts, e-learning, and web pages suitable for accessing by small screen devices. More wireless access points and easy authentication to University services are required.
Email communication is vital to these students. OUCS is continually monitoring and upgrading the Herald and Webmail systems and researching and evaluating alternative options as they are developed. The OUCS backbone network provides all the internet connectivity for the University and OUCS will strive to ensure its future reliability and availability is as impressive in the future as it has been in the past. The OWL and Frodo projects are examples of how access to the internet has been made even more available and secure to University members.
The rise in Mac popularity has already encouraged OUCS to make changes to its hardware upgrades and repairs service and we will continue to enhance services to help our growing Mac community.
IT Training requirements are already covered by our IT Learning Programme. The challenge here is to ensure students know that such courses exist and to encourage them to attend.
The 2007 survey reported a dramatic emergence of the institutional-wide use of social software, such as the commercial service Facebook. Over 90% of incoming students are already familiar with this social networking service. How this affects other more traditional means of communication and how it can be used in an academic environment is the topic of several research activities within OUCS. The new generation of 'digital native' students are likely to have higher expectations of supported services than the previous cohorts, and may have already formed models for their information environment based on third-party services. As always it will be a challenge to keep up with the ever-changing technological world we live in.
2.4. Open Source Software and Business and Community Engagement
Open source software (OSS) is licensed and distributed in such a way as to allow anyone to adapt and improve it and legally release the results of their work to the world. Examples of open source software are the operating system Linux, the web browser Firefox, the web server Apache, and the office suite Open Office.
Since 2003, OUCS has hosted OSS Watch, a JISC-funded advisory service for Higher and Further Education institutions in the UK. OSS Watch promotes awareness and understanding of the legal, social, technical, and economic issues that arise when educational institutions engage with free and open source software. It does this by providing unbiased advice and guidance to UK higher and further education.
From the beginning OSS Watch has dealt with many queries from academics about how they can make software they have written available under an open source licence. There is an affinity between the freedom to adapt and improve software that these licences provide and the principles of academic freedom. This is not surprising, given that originators of the OSS licensing model were themselves academics and motivated by a desire to research and teach better programming techniques and functionality through the widespread availability of adaptable, improvable code.
Despite this affinity, the necessity of capturing value in intellectual property generated with the UK educational community, and managing the attendant liabilities, can make OSS release difficult. Administrative mechanisms for due diligence and examination for commercial potential are necessarily complex and time-consuming, and as a result OSS Watch found that, nationally, many academics and other institutional staff were simply avoiding them and placing their software on a globally viewable web page for download, nominally under an OSS licence. This was bad news for all concerned. Those who downloaded it were likely to be unknowingly infringing the institution's copyright, and the institution itself could be unknowingly assuming liability for the operation of the software.
In OSS Watch's second round of funding, we therefore added research support, legal support and knowledge transfer staff to our list of stakeholders. Over the last decade, European and UK policy has increasingly stressed innovation as a core component of a modern economy. Clearly the education sector has a large role to play here, and funding bodies like HEFCE have responded by creating funding opportunities for institutions to build their expertise in realising value from their activities. Funding streams like the Higher Education Innovation Fund have helped institutions build expertise in creating 'spin-out' companies, forging collaborations with business and providing services to innovation-led industries. In addition, there has been a parallel policy drive to develop greater links between institutions and external communities, both academic and non-academic, local and global.
OSS Watch aims to introduce institutional staff undertaking these 'Business and Community Engagement' (BCE) activities to the range of possible routes to intellectual property exploitation and community building that open source software release can enable. In line with our non-advocacy role, we do not attempt to promote this form of licensing over others, only to add it to the list of possible approaches available to BCE staff. We are also happy to advise on the potential risks that this approach may entail.
It is a common misconception that, because OSS licences grant a right to distribute to all recipients, there can be no business advantage for the software's authors and therefore no way of making any money from open source. In reality, this is not the case, and large companies like Red Hat and Novell make considerable amounts of money selling open source software augmented with support, warranties and intellectual property indemnifications. Other companies like MySQL make two versions of their software available, one under an open source licence and another under a commercial closed source licence. Smaller companies release open source software and provide associated premium services like consultancy and bespoke adaptation. It is perhaps in this latter area that open source exploitation meshes best with more traditional institutional consultancy-based business models.
Open source software release can bring many advantages to an institution if the risks are well understood and the internal administrative processes can be adapted to accommodate it. The rewards can be greater academic interaction and collaboration, as well as novel methods of exploiting intellectual property that would – in many cases – otherwise remain unexploited.
Up: Contents Previous: 1. Introduction Next: 3. Service Reports