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Movie News
The Friday Docback Is Committed To The 'Asylum Of The Daleks'!! READER REACTION To DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 7 Begins With A Spoiler-Free Mini-Review From Glen, 'Pond Life,' Newslet Round-Up, And More!!
Merrick here...
...with a brief, SPOILER FREE REVIEW of Asylum of the Daleks, the first episode of DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 7, which debuts this weekend (Saturday Sept 1) on BBC One in the UK, BBC America here in in the States, and Space in Canada.
This posting also represents our first official Docback of Season/Series 7! We once again welcome returning participants, and warmly encourage new visitors or lurkers to jump in and join the fun.
PLEASE NOTE: this is a MODERATED FORUM - unlike other message boards here on Aint It Cool News. We take this moderation very seriously, and tend to allow extremely little deviation/margin for error.
THIS IS NOT a governance of ideas. Instead, this is about maintaining a high degree of civility and friendly, open discourse.
My best advice would be: to think very carefully about what you're saying and HOW you're saying it before posting, and ensure there's no room for misinterpretation of tone (i.e. no way to infer disrespect or hostility from your wording).
Please see the Code of Conduct posted at the bottom of each Docback before diving in. It's simple, it's fair, it works, and is key to creating a DOCTOR WHO-based message board experience which is warm, friendly, amazingly insightful, and apparently rather unique compared to many (most?) places on the Net. We truly hope you'll become a part of it, and will enjoy doing so.
Docbacks are regularly visited by participants from across the globe - which is tremendously cool. Global visitors are cool. Alas, DOCTOR WHO is shown in different times in different places across the world...
For example, it transmits in the UK early evening - which is early afternoon US time.
This Docback will remain a SPOILER FREE ZONE until DOCTOR WHO's initial UK transmit (which occurs early afternoon Saturday, US time).
Once DW transmits in the UK, SPOILERS will be allowed in this forum. Thus, folks wishing to remain unsoiled by Asylum of the Daleks details until they've seen the episode for themselves may wish to tread very, very carefully if entering this Docback after late morning(ish) North American time.
Please note the Spoiler Warning Policy posted on the Code of Conduct below.
More on Asylum below, but first...
Over the the last few days, BBC issued a series of prequel minisodes ramping up to this weekend's debut of DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 7.
ALL CONNECTED (thanks supertoyslast for pointing it out!)
We've already seen some spectacular promotional art from Asylum of the Daleks, the first episode in DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 7.
BBC has issued further art from the first five installments in this Season/Series run. In keeping with WHO-overlord Steven Moffat's assertion that this new batch of episodes will be more self-contained and cinematic in nature (I'm paraphrasing), this art is very clearly designed to evoke theatrical one sheets.
CLICK IMAGES FOR HUGELY EMBIGGENABLE VERSIONS...The fifth image appears in my review below.
Asylum of the Daleks [Spoiler Free Mini-Review]
I want to be able to say, every week, we've got a big standalone blockbuster, and then a trailer that makes it look like nothing compared to what's going to happen next week! That's the form for next year.
I want slutty titles and movie-poster plots. I want big pictures and straplines. The first episode I'm writing is called [Spoiler] of the [Spoilers]. And it'll feel a bit like Die Hard, that first episode.
Steven Moffat said this in DOCTOR WHO MAGAZINE December 2011. If Asylum of the Daleks...or the movie poster-styled S7 promo art we've seen recently...or the agreeably titled Dinosaurs on a Spaceship follow-up to Asylum...are indicative, he's very much living up to the mandate he so brazenly put forth last Holiday Season.
Taken on its own, Asylum suggests a cleaner, more succinct path for Season/Series 7 than S6's previous run of stories - offering a self-contained tale which most assuredly leaves room for further exploration, while resolving itself internally quite nicely. Should several of its primary plot points never, ever be revisited, AotD could well be viewed as the end of a massive narrative arc. But it's a safe bet one or two of the threads introduced here will come back around, perhaps to resonate quite loudly, somewhere down the line.
In several key regards - Asylum feels like a funky, hybridized throwback to "classic" DOCTOR WHO - in pacing, in execution, even in concept. This isn't to say the tried and true trappings of Moffat Model (Moffel!) WHO have been completely abandoned...they're still very much present...but they've been stripped down to his reinvention's most base ingredients, with a commendable sensitivity towards avoiding excess. In Asylum, there's never too much smugness, never too much angst, never too much exposition or confusion. The Powers That Be seem to have recalibrated their measuring devices.
While the episode is quick on pacing and focuses predominantly on a straight-ahead mission-driven storyline (Moffat's DIE HARD analogy is very fair in several regards), it does swoop in for a few emotional gut punches - which it delivers sharply and succinctly. These scenes are smartly written and edited - wisely sidestepping melodrama and turgidity, they go in for the kill while remaining sensitive to overstaying their welcome. Another example of that recalibration mentioned above.
None of this is to imply that Asylum represents a complete reboot of Moffle WHO. It does not. It does, however, re-consider and (to a degree) reset the show's staging. It's the same DOCTOR WHO in many regards - merely delivered differently, via a markedly adapted thought process. This capacity for reinvention has fueled DW's longevity since its earliest years - and will continue to do so in the forseeable future I'd imagine. Which is exactly as it should be - may it remain vital, unpredictable, and...regenerative...for a long time to come.
Asylum of the Daleks...9EST/8C on BBC America (7:20pm BBC One, 8pm Space)
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (S07E02)
Glen Oliver
"The Impossible Astronaut"
"Day of the Moon"
"The Curse of the Black Spot"
"The Doctor's Wife"
"The Rebel Flesh"
"The Almost People"
"The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe" (2011 Christmas Special)
"An Unearthly Child" (Story #1)
"The Daleks" (Story #2)
"The Edge of Destruction" (Story #3)
"Marco Polo" (Story #4)
"The Keys of Marinus" (Story #5)
"The Aztecs" (Story #6)
"The Sensorites" (Story #7)
"The Sensorites" (Story #7 - full DVD release)
"The Reign of Terror" (Story #8)
"Planet of Giants" (Story #9)
"The Dalek Invasion of Earth" (Story #10)
"The Rescue" (Story #11)
"The Romans" (Story #12)
"The Web Planet" (Story #13) / SHERLOCK - "A Scandal in Belgravia" (Story #4)
"The Crusade" (Story #14)
"The Space Museum" (Story #15)
"The Chase" (Story #16)
"The Time Meddler" (Story #17)
"Galaxy 4" (Story #18)
"Mission to the Unkonwn" (Story #19)
"The Myth Makers" (Story #20)
"The Gunfighters" (Story #25)
"The Tomb of the Cybermen" (Story #37)
"The Mind Robber" (Story #45)
"The Krotons" (Story #47)
"The Seeds of Death" (Story #48)
"Spearhead from Space" (Story #51)
"The Colony in Space" (Story #58)
"The Daemons" (Story #59)
"Day of the Daleks" (Story #60) + Preview of the DotD Special Edition
"The Three Doctors" (Story #65)
"Carnival of Monsters" (Story #66)
"Death to the Daleks" (Story #72)
"Invasion of the Dinosaurs" (Story #71) and SHERLOCK: "The Reichenbach Fall" (Story #6)
"The Android Invasion" (Story #83) and SHERLOCK: "The Hounds of Baskerville" (Story #5)
"The Face of Evil" (Story #89)
"The Robots of Death" (Story #90)
"The Talons of Weng-Chiang" (Story #91)
"The Sun Makers" (Story #95)
"The City of Death" (Story #105)
"Nightmare of Eden" (Story #107)
"Kinda" (Story #118)
"Snakedance" (Story #125)
"The Five Doctors" (Story #129)
"The Awakening" (Story #131)
"Frontios" (Story #132)
"Resurrection of the Daleks" (Story #134)
"The Caves of Androzani" (Story #136)
"Time and the Rani" (Story #144)
"Paradise Towers" (Story #145) + New WHOvian Documentary / Newsbits
"Dragonfire" (Story #147)
"The Happiness Patrol" (Story #149)
"The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" (Story #151)
"Doctor Who: The Movie" (aka TVM) - McGann)
Merrick's Personal Journey With The Doctor (How Merrick Got Hooked On DOCTOR WHO)
DOCTOR WHO Title Sequences & DW At Comic-Con 2011
"The Crash of the Elysium" (Manchester version - interactive DOCTOR WHO adventure)
Why Eccleston Left, Here Comes Caroline Skinner, And Season/Series Six Part 1 on Blu-Ray And DVD
New Trailer For Season/Series Six Part 2
The Companions of DOCTOR WHO + New Trailer & Artwork For Season/Series 7
[Season / Series Seven Docbacks]
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3) converse, agree, disagree, and question as much as you want - but the freedom to do so is NOT a license to be rude, crass, disrespectful, or uncivilized in any way. Not remaining courteous and civil, as well as TROLLING or undertaking sensational efforts to ignite controversy, will result in banning. Lack of courtesy may receive one (1) warning before a ban is instigated. Obvious Trolling or Spamming will result in summary banning with no warning. One word posts intended to bump-up any Docback's figures on AICN's "Top Talkbacks" sidebar will be considered actionable Spam - they not only complicate efforts to access Docback from mobile devices, but impede readers' abilities to follow or engage in flowing conversation.
Readers Talkbackcomments powered by Disqus
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Aug. 31, 2012, 9:19 a.m. CST
"Pond Life" mistake
by berserkrl
You have two part 2s posted here, and no part 3.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:20 a.m. CST
oh, and ....
by berserkrl
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:22 a.m. CST
by Merrick
Thanks for the catch.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:23 a.m. CST
by berserkrl
Wait till you see my consulting fee.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:28 a.m. CST
by ByTor
I am so jazzed for Asylum. Been too bloody long since we've had new Who!
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:28 a.m. CST
Pond Life part 5
by DoctorTom
I'm half surprised that they didn't use the earlier episodes of Pond Life to lay more groundwork for what we saw in Episode 5, which was obviously establishing the Pond situation we'll see in Asylum of the Daleks. SPOILER FOR POND LIFE PART 5 - Maybe Rory got upset with Amy, had a hideous row and moved out when the Ood was serving them Duck l'Orange, and Rory found out that the duck had actually been the last surviving duck from the Leadworth duck pond, then realizing they had been living on an almost steady diet of duck when the Doctor wasn't around.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:29 a.m. CST
Hi All!
by BinaryBob010
Been reading since the start of the Docbacks and thought I'd finally chime in and say hi. Pond Life has been a little underwhelming, but, the last instalment made up for the previous four a little. Cannot wait for Asylum tomorrow! Merrick, you've done sterling work with the Docbacks over the time they've been running, many thanks for all the reading material.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:30 a.m. CST
Well, it is good there is a kind of change
by HornOrSilk
That's needed to keep it fresh. Sometimes going back to old forms also is worthwhile for such changes, sometimes not. Depends. Just will wait and see.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:33 a.m. CST
by Merrick
THANK YOU very much! Great folk and awesome conversation here - happy to have you with us!
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:34 a.m. CST
The wait is (almost) over
by DoctorTom
Gentlemen you asked for a miracle. I give you River Song.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:36 a.m. CST
Weird posting behavior - does anybody else have this happening?
by DoctorTom
When I'm posting, after I hit the "post your talkback" button my post shows up - underneath the "quick talkback form". It goes up to the normal spot in the thread when I refresh, though. Is anybody else having this occur?
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:37 a.m. CST
by Merrick
Yes - happening to me as well. Sending note to tech folk now
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:37 a.m. CST
Yes, the weird posting is happening for me too.
by BinaryBob010
Merrick, many thanks for the warm welcome.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:38 a.m. CST
Hello and welcome, binarybob010
by DoctorTom
I'm glad to see you're jumping in with comments now, the more people we get talking in the Docbacks the better!
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST
same for me.
by saintsaucey
Long time lurker since around Let's Kill Hitler. This will be the first time I get to see Doctor Who live on tv. Usually I watch it on a download site someone here pointed me to.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
Looking forward to new Who! woohoo!!!!!!! Wassup, Docs?
by Michael Lunney
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:49 a.m. CST
Yeah!!! Series 7 docback!!!!! Hello again everyone!
by Seph_J
Boy, am I looking forward to this!!
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:53 a.m. CST
Hey doctortom!
by BinaryBob010
Cheers! Been around the site for years and a Who fan since the late 70s. My Doc was Baker, but I've really enjoyed the direction Moffat has taken with Nu-Who. I'm looking forward to the last Pond eps to come and the change this new series is taking, new companion and a leaner ar
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:54 a.m. CST
^ arc overall.
by BinaryBob010
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:57 a.m. CST
WELCOME saintsaucey!!
by Merrick
So glad you're joining in! Enjoy!
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:57 a.m. CST
May I be the first to declare that my Toblerone...
by Seph_J
...is sat on the shelf, ready and waiting for tomorrow night!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:02 a.m. CST
Binarybob010 - sounds like we're in the same boat
by DoctorTom
My first episode was part 3 of Robot (complete with Howard Da Silva introduction) - got immediately hooked. I've enjoyed all the nu-Who but especially the Moffat stuff. Right now I like Matt Smith as much as Tom Baker (and that's a pretty high standard) - they both have their own ways of showing the quirky, non-human side of the Doctor.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:02 a.m. CST
Looking forward to Series/Season 7 (New)
by Kauzi Sezso
Prior to taking control of the show, Moffat's strength was in the way he would take a grand idea and boil it down to one or two episodes. He was brilliant at layering the plots and leaving little bits that could (and were) taken up in other stories. While I've enjoyed his run overall, I feel that Moffat's talents weren't well served these past two seasons as he stretched his ideas into story arcs and painted his characters into impossible corners. His resolutions, while fun, left many loose ends, and often came up as too convenient. Of course, it's all in good fun, but I'm looking forward to seeing him get back to a more compact way of telling stories. I'll be so torn on Saturday -- attending the World Science Fiction convention in Chicago while the show is on. Yes, I'll be recording it, but, of course, I want to see it NOW! :) And I'm really looking forward to seeing all of the Daleks in the first episode!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:03 a.m. CST
Posting behavior
by Kauzi Sezso
Same thing happening here. I thought it was a "feature".... :)
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:04 a.m. CST
Welcome, saintsaucey, and hello again seph j
by DoctorTom
Break out the Toblerone (or the Tastykakes, for those in proper areas of the US) and let's get ready to settle in for the show!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:05 a.m. CST
yea, new posts I make have been showing up underneath the posting field for several days now (til I refresh)
by TheSeeker7
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:10 a.m. CST
Kauzi - have fun at Worldcon!
by DoctorTom
on the bright side, you'll be able to know sooner than the rest of us if The Doctor's Wife wins a Hugo. It's a fair criticism of Moffat's storytelling. Right now we think the loose ends are dangly bits for arcs he still wants to follow up, but the new format of "blockbuster" standalones should change that up a bit. It's nice to actually see Moffat experimenting with the different storytelling methods - usually we weren't getting changes in how Doctor Who "felt" without a change in producer (or at least change in script editor in the days of classic Who).
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:19 a.m. CST
It's great to be back. Can't wait!!!
by Sequitur
Thanks Merrick for doing this, as always! The most civil talkback on the whole interwebs!!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:20 a.m. CST
by Merrick
Welcome back sir! You're most welcome, and thanks so much for being here!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:27 a.m. CST
So glad raggedy-man is back
by Ed
especially since we're losing Mr White for awhile
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:30 a.m. CST
Back to the Docbacks!
by Red43jes
Hey all! I'm looking forward to the new season. Really looking forward to Asylum of the Daleks. I get a feeling that we have some suprises in store for the second half of the year...still hoping that we see some off the wall appearances of famous people, as well as the chance of the show bringing back way old foes. REALLY would love to see a return of the Master and some more Time Lords-surely they aren't ALL dead (I just recently re-watched Brain of Morbius)?
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:32 a.m. CST
So nice to see a classy talkback
by BlueLando
Looking forward to the new season. Issues with S6 aside, DAT ENDING was magnificient. And the Christmas Special was the right kind of corny!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:37 a.m. CST
You know, if they hadn't ...
by veteran_of_mu
... done the *I Know* christmas special and the *Hello Ponds* Pond-Life I'd be champing at the bit for AOTD. But they did. And now I find myself expecting very little. I don't know what Merrick's resetting is all about, but I'm a bit worried that it means: ~All that stuff we set up in S5 and S6? Gangers and cracks and silents and the sentient Tardis? Don't worry about that. We were just smoking very strong pot. We're all better now and ready to get back to our core audience. ~9-year-olds. ~We realise some of you aren't actually nine years old. But we know that you only watch DW because of your inner 9-year-old, so we've decided that's all that really matters now. Oh, and to have a lot of funny memes where Matt and Karen faff about. ~So, here we go with explosions and shooting and running and never mind about why or how or ... what was that word ... payoff. Because really all the payoff you need is that we're getting rid of the Ponds. See? All paid. Now we get back to ... what is it this week? Dinosaurs? Oh, no, Daleks. Yes, the monster-generator is set on Daleks this week. Hold onto your hats because they're really scary now. And if you're not feeling very 9-years-old don't worry, because next companion has really big boobs!~ Or something like that. Going for the plastic toys and video games.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:38 a.m. CST
Can't wait for it to start
by Mahaloth
Glad USA gets it same day as UK. I wish they did the same with Sherlock.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:40 a.m. CST
S5/S6 unanswered questions
by BlueLando
Don't count Moffat out yet. He's paid off nearly EVERYTHING in regards of River Song. So clearly he has answers - he's just not answering everything, likely until he's ready to leave and wants the next team to have a clean slate. The same way RTD saved the revelation that The Doctor ending The Time War WASN'T to stop the Daleks, it was to stop The Time Lords until his final episode!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:47 a.m. CST
Let's GO!
by notspock2
Enjoyed Pondlife, and am looking forward to this...
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:48 a.m. CST
OT - Red Dwarf, and the DW broadcast model
by DoctorTom
there's claims that this will be getting same-day (or near same day) broadcast in the US as for the UK. It starts Oct 4 on Dave in the UK, and PBS is supposed to be showing the new episodes. It looks lke the broadcast model BBCA started for doing same-day showing of some British shows in the US is picking up popularity.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:48 a.m. CST
The best talkbacks on AICN
by ByTor
Are, of course, the Docbacks. It is a credit to Merrick that the tone has been maintained for so long. This is a better place to discuss Doctor Who than pretty much anywhere else on the web. Welcome, newcomers!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:49 a.m. CST
Looking forward to it, simply because it's been too damn long without new episodes...
by V'Shael
but consider my expectations to be suitably lowered. I am not expecting to be blown by any slutty episode.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11 a.m. CST
New Doctor Who and Breaking Bad Season Finale!
by sunspot_mike
Best Labor Day TV Weekend Ever! Beats the Hell out of Jerry Lewis!
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:08 a.m. CST
@unstoppable: Philiip Hinchcliffe is still alive, and remains the producer of DW ever, BUT...
by obijuanmartinez
...not sure he'd be an appropriate fit for the show at this point in its current format. Not only that, but it'd inevitably be a let-down on some (if not several) levels when it fails to live up to / exceed his stuff from the "Golden Age of Doctor Who"
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:08 a.m. CST
...er, that'd be BEST producer of DW ever. Oops!
by obijuanmartinez
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:22 a.m. CST
If you were to have Hinchcliffe come back to do some television
by DoctorTom
instead of Doctor Who, perhaps a reboot of Sapphire and Steel?
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:25 a.m. CST
Unanswered questions and S5-7
by Hellstrom
I still can't shake the feeling that S5 came AFTER S6 as far as the Silence Movement was concerned. First they created River to assassinate the Doctor...failed. But perhaps they took information from River (who was taught how to pilot The TARDIS by lovely herself) or planted a subliminal message in River to destruct the TARDIS should her assassination attempts fail. I could even suggest that S7 and the finale at the Fields of Trenzalore will be the trigger for that? Or, in a more chronologically linear way it will literally be the "fall" of the Silence movement as in their ultimate defeat. (in DW these two things can exist at the same time, esp in the mind of the Moff) He writes things that need charts and visual aids sometimes... Anyhow I hope you understand this posting. Timey-Wimey!
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:38 a.m. CST
Not to sound like a total idiot, but I'm still not sure why...
by Barrymore
the TARDIS exploded, there's a crack in Amy's wall, Amy's house/town are so weird, River's timeline is so messed up--how many Doctors did she actually meet/fall in love with, and what the heck the Silence/Silents actually are! To me, it seems like Moffat has lots of "clever ideas" but not a lot of concrete answers to anything.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST
The Silence aren't done with River
by BlueLando
I mean... SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY. That says it all. :-)
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST
by Seph_J
There is a definite feeling that s5 happens after s6 - particularly with the Silent ship in The Lodger - and all the cracks existing despite the TARDIS having not exploded yet. But whether that is just the fact that the cracks were in time, and therefore could appear at any point or because we're seeing Moff arc unfold backwards, with the 'introduction' to the Silence happening at the end of his reign and, presumably during the 'fall of the 11'. Who knows. I agree, we're probably not done with all that just yet!
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:40 a.m. CST
....and why exactly did Amy not remember the Daleks?
by Seph_J
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:45 a.m. CST
These questions will be answered though...
by BinaryBob010
Right? It's not like Moffat is done with the show and has walked away. The unanswered questions remain precisely so and Moff is no hack, we will get answers - just maybe not the ones we want!
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:46 a.m. CST
Can't wait, love the Moffatt years.
by Elsewhere
Season 5 of Who is my favorite season of anything ever. 6 was good, but not as good. Ever episode gets us closer to whatever's going to happen for the 50th. It's got to be Tennant, and I really, really can't wait for it.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:53 a.m. CST
binarybob010 (and all) re: questions
by Merrick
One of those holdover questions is pointedly recalled in Asylum. I don't think The Moff has abandoned his macro concepts/destinations at all...he's just re-shaping how the journey to their answers will be presented to us. I think. I *love* me some Moffaty Goodness (that sounds so, so wrong). But, yeah, there are times I think a tad less coyness/tapdancing might empower his macro ideas to feel less confounding/intimidating. Making them a little more accessible. My SENSE of Asylum is this is exactly what they're trying to do with S7. I think. Maybe.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:57 a.m. CST
For the 50th....
by Ian
I would love to see the return of a few doctors past...namely 8,9 and 10. 10 would be the double that went off with Rose, not the 10 that regenerated into 11. We'd have 8 regenerating into 9, and possibly an explanation of that "half human" comment in the film explained via 10's actual half human-ness. I always felt there was an interesting split timeline story hidden in that comment, and would love to see it realized. Mind, this may have already been addressed elsewhere, but my chums and I love thinking about it.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:58 a.m. CST
binarybob010 and saintsaucey - Welcome, new friends!
by wtriker1701
It will be crazy here sometimes, it will be hotly discussed here, paraphrased, emphasized, spoilery, and above all of it: civilized! Imagine that: Crazily civilized... But it's true! Part 4 of 5 of Pond Life was extremely satisfactory. I imagined, that after silliness in the bginning there would be dramedy - it happened to evolve into drama. WOW! Now I'm completely sold for season 7. And: I'm back on at least a weekly basis, my fellow Whovians. Great place to be. May the Docbacks live Long And Prosper! Thanks, Merrick, for holding the torch so frequently. You've really created something special here within AintItCool!
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:01 p.m. CST
Mr White is the one who knocks
by Matthew
The Master is the one who knocks four times what happens if you violate the docback code of conduct? EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! I will follow it then Nerdist on youtube will have doctor who themed shows including a Q and A with the cast Saturday night after the show I think for anyone who cares.
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:03 p.m. CST
Barrymore (& sephj)
by DoctorTom
The TARDIS exploded because the Silence set the TARDIS up to explode, presumably to stop the Doctor from reaching the Fields of Trenzalore. The crack in Amy's wall was just one of the cracks in time that resulted from the TARDIS exploding. Amy's town is no wierder than any other small village anywhere (take that how you will). Certainly, it's no weirder than the town of Sandford in Hot Fuzz. Most of the weirdness comes from the cracks "eating" things, or were a dream caused by the Dream Lord (the aliens inside the old people in Amy's Choice weren't real.) River and the Doctor just don't meet in chronological order. It's reasonable to assume that at some point the Doctor would be meeting people in the wrong chronological order (for another, smaller example, the Second Doctor at the Brig's retirement, after the Brig had adventures with the 3rd and 4th Doctor). She loves one Doctor, but possibly multiple regenerations (I would like to see a short webisode or DVD extra with Tennant post-Silence in the Library and River - have they had the party in Asgard yet?) Amy doesn't remember the Daleks because the cracks in time "ate" the event. From a practical standpoint, the cracks could be said to have eaten any public showing of an alien invasion during the RTD era so that the Earth that Moffat is using isn't radically different than our Earth - numerous Dalek/Cybermen invasions (nobody remembers a giant CyberKing in 1851, most people don't remember Gallifrey hanging up in the sky, etc. etc. It also probably ate up the bits with John Saxon, so that there weren't any embarassing questions about why the British prime minister went bonkers and started an international incident with the President (let alone figuring out what happened to the President and the other people who were on the Valiant originally at the time that the post-invasion Valiant rewound back to - was the president still dead? Even in England?) the Silence - we've been told they're a religious order, and I'm sure there will be more reveals about them. Given that we still have the Fields of Trenzalore ahead, and the event that the Silence are trying to prevent, we should be seeing more of them in the future. We still need to see the fall of the Headless Monks also - we've seen them in AGMGTW, but they were mentioned previously in the museum in The Time of Angels. They might be tied in with the Silence and the Fields of Trenzalore.
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:06 p.m. CST
Moff is no hack is an understatement
by Matthew
He did write blink and Sherlock. I don't know if was real but someone posted screen caps of Moffat posting on a formsprings message board early mid 90s. he typed something about why all this talk of continuity when the Doctor can change space and time. My head is full of theories of what will happen next. I should of seen it coming but I didn't, and I am glad I didn't but I didn't see River being who she is, and I didn't see the ending to season 6 coming either. The doctor cheated the fixed point in time right?
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
What is your take on the link between the the Silence and the Alliance? The Alliance were trying to stop The Doctor from destroying the Universe, right? And if so... wasn't that what happened when the TARDIS exploded? So it happened.... so what was the voice in the TARDIS saying "Silence will fall"? Were the Silence and the Alliance working together? I can't quite pull all of this together, but I'm not sure that I'm supposed to be able to yet!
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST
Monster-free cliffhanger
by Dreamfasting
I have to admit that when they said it was building up to a cliffhanger, my imagintion went to the obvious "monster on the doorstep" expectation. But given that the question on my mind as we near the new season has been "why are the Ponds back with the Doctor after he pointedly dropped them off last year?", this ending feels very satisfying in setting up a plausable answer. Doctor Who does not fill a lot of hours each year, but it fills a lot of imagination.
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST
The Silence/The Alliance
by KanekoFan
I see no reason to believe that there was a direct link between the Silence and the Alliance, other than a simple causal one: The Silence blew up the TARDIS, the various aliens learned (possibly had the information leaked to them indirectly from The Silence) that the TARDIS would explode, they responded by forming the Alliance to stop the Doctor.
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:35 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
So despite the clear difference in how they sound, is it genuinely accepted now that the voice in the TARDIS was one of the Silence?
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Is this the post you're referring to? https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups #!topic/rec.arts.drwho/fNc0-Zpirpg - it's pretty much the exact quote from River Song at the end of AGMGTW. Brilliant.
Aug. 31, 2012, 12:47 p.m. CST
ORLANDO Area!!!!
by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost
If you live in the Orlando, Fl area, there will be a viewing party tomorrow that starts at 7pm EST. Go to Hurricanewho.com for details, or Facebook it. It is free to attend, and there will be tones of other Whovians there. Hope to see you there, cheers!
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST
@kanekofan & steph_j & doctortom--re the voice, silence, etc
by batmancw
I still think that we do NOT know who took control of the Tardis, who caused it to blow up & who that voice belonged to--it certainly didnt sound like one of the Silence to me. I think that Moffat is playing a "long game" with those answers & they are yet to come--perhaps only being revealed at or near the end of Matt's tenure of the Doctor. Of course, feel free to correct me if you remember definitive evidence that i am forgetting. Also--one other point yet to be noted(or at least yet to be commented upon) by the Doctor or Amy--the Clerics & River from the 2 part Byzantium/Weeping Angels story have the same Omega type of symbol on their camos as the group that was working with Madame K at Demon's Run in "A Good Man Goes to War", yet they dont treat him as an enemy--perhaps because they need his help, or perhaps because they are from a later point in the timeline ( River DID say that this mission might be enough to earn her a pardon) where the perception they have of the Doctor has changed. Either way, I think it is another "loose string" yet to be tied up.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:12 p.m. CST
by ByTor
Nice find. Gads, I'm even a poster in that thread. And WOW, that thread was almost 18 years ago. I feel old.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST
seph_j - the Alliance and the Silence
by DoctorTom
I don't think they were working together at all. The Alliance had figured out that the cracks were due to the TARDIS exploding, and made an erroneous assumption that the Doctor was the only one who could pilot it. The Alliance was trying to prevent the cracks that the Silence had been causing.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST
Dalek bingo/drinking game
by Mister Vertue
This was printed in the Radio Times in the UK, but I thought it might be of some interest to US Docbackers who might have missed it: http://static.radiotimes.com/editorial/dalek-bingo-rev2.pdf Post your results later! p.s. I added the drinking game bit because I'm guessing a few of you are way too cool for bingo, and would rather have a drink
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:33 p.m. CST
Moff *is* a hack...
by Mister Vertue
At least that's what one or two (probably way more than that actually) will be saying, but sadly this is a civilised Merrick Docback. The naysayers will have to wait for one of Herc's Docbacks to post such comments as 'Doctor Who is bullshit' (or words to that affect - uttered by someone on this very Docback - true story). Still, it's great to see so many positive posts filled with enthusiasm and optimism for Saturday! Who is back!
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:36 p.m. CST
Shouldn't there be a Dalek bug zapping game?
by HornOrSilk
The Exterminators?
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST
Several questions which remain
by HornOrSilk
Who or what is Prisoner Zero (doesn't need to be answered, but would be good if it was). How exactly does River's timeline work with the two-universes. She seems to be a bridge between the two with Amy. Why does Rory keep on dying. Why does the Ood use the toilet. Why are Rory and Amy fighting. If he could wait thousands of years, can't he be patient with Amy? What happens when the Doctor is recognized when he is supposed to be dead and playing it low? [My only guess here is that either all the Daleks will be destroyed, or, the Daleks know a good reason to be quiet and protect the Doctor, similar to how Lex knows who Superman is but doesn't use it and reveal it to others]. Why are there no ducks in the duck pond? Why isn't the TARDIS jealous of River Song? and... Doctor Who?
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST
by HornOrSilk
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST
@horn--just yesterday I was wondering if the duck pond question will be answered--too funny
by batmancw
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST
Oh, and a side note... Big Finish Audio (spoilers)...
by HornOrSilk
Fenric is back. I hope they do him justice. So far, I do like what they have done to set this up-- having the Doctor create a second TARDIS with companions. He's trying to out-Fenric Fenric. But I have a feeling, the Doctor is going to be possessed, that he will end up being a wolf of Fenric as well. And he knows this and the second crew was created for this very reason.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:47 p.m. CST
batmancw I wouldn't be surprised if we get an answer
by HornOrSilk
I do believe it when it was said there originally was a purpose behind it with the crack in time explaining it the duck problem, but I also think, because it wasn't given it has made room for the ultimate answer: Prisoner Zero is a Duck.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST
I heard a little while back....
by Seph_J
...that there MIGHT be a new arrangement of the opening DW theme for this series? Haven't seen anything else on that for a while though, so am not exactly expecting it. Can Merrick or anyone else shed any light on that?
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST
hornorsilk re: "the duck problem"
by Merrick
If The Moff ever wrties a book about his time on WHO, "The Duck Problem" would make a lovely title.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST
I don't think the ood was pooing, i think he was just sitting there. it looked like his pants were on.not that it matters.
by saintsaucey
Ood on the loo.
Aug. 31, 2012, 1:53 p.m. CST
Hey - let's give credit where credit is due...
by Perigee
Sure, Merrick is the innkeeper - but give some credit to the platoon of Docbackers that keep this place filled with compelling, yet genteel content. Like The Doctor's smugness with "Bigger on the inside," I remember my first tentative steps in here mentioning the amazing vibe of the place, and for the past two seasons I always get a secret blast when new guys like binarybob and saintsaucy come out of the rain at the start of every season and marvel at the atmosphere. Welcome to the club, kids! And, to the returning pantheon, prodigal sons and yearlong stalwarts (and doctortom, who really needs a category of his own for his absolutely life-averting massive participation)... here we go again. Geronimo. Merrick hosts the party, but it's you guys that make it happen. Always good to be home with you.
Aug. 31, 2012, 2 p.m. CST
philjacksonisthemasterofzen-doc cheating the fixed point
by glenn_the_frog
There's a lot of confusion about the robot double and the fixed point at the end of last season. A lot of people think the fixed point is "The doctor has to die or future events won't happen right and the universe collapses." and that he cheated the universe with the robot and changed things. That's not the case. He ALWAYS cheated with the robot. The fixed point is "The universe and villains at large have to THINK the doctor died or future events won't happen right and the universe collapses." Him dying was never the important thing. His enemies thinking he was dead is. (Also, the season introduced a dozen different ways to escape that trap as it went along. He had more options than just the robot. He also had to drop himself clues in a loop to know he had to do it... hence his later self sending him younger self the invite to set things in motion.)
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:01 p.m. CST
River, Clerics & the Omega logo & the timeline
by batmancw
Now that i think about it--and i'm watching it on BBCA as i type--the Byzantium mission precedes the Pandorica, BUT--the omega symbol sporting clerics werent in that ep, so.....do we know where in River's timeline "AGMGTW" falls relative to those episodes? Not sure we do....ahhhh, thank god the Doc is back--it's been too long since I've had my head muddled by fresh wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff I still gotta think that(the omega sporting clerics who are the Docs enemies in AGMGTW, but are friendly in the Byzantium ep) is a loose end purposely left dangling & I also agree with horn that I bet we do eventually get an answer to the duckpond question.
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:02 p.m. CST
the season 5 trailer is the best dr who trailer ever
by emeraldboy
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:03 p.m. CST
philjackson--agreed--he ALWAYS "died" in the Tesseract suit
by batmancw
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:04 p.m. CST
I know why Rory left in a huff...
by Perigee
~Rory...~ ~Yeah?~ ~You know I love the whole ~Last Centaurian~ thing... But you know, why don't we... you know... change it up a little? Keep it fresh...?~ ~What? Like Maid and postman, or..~ ~No... Like I wear the Kissogram suit and you wear this...~ ~That's... That a Doctor Suit. And what's in the pocket? WHAT? Is THIS supposed to be my screwdriver?~ ~Well... it does buzz..~ ~That's it... I'm done...~
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:04 p.m. CST
saintsaucey re: ood poo
by Merrick
>>> I don't think the ood was pooing, i think he was just sitting there. It looked like his pants were on. not that it matters.<<< I find the Ood Poo / no Ood Poo debate to be one of the more intriguing concerns recently introduced into the WHOverse. I personally believe the Ood was pooing. Although, yeah, the way that shot's composed, it does appear as if his pants are on - but maybe that worsens matters. What (or who?) motivated him to sit on a toilet with his pants on? Perhaps he was pooing his pants while sitting on the toilet? Sounds unfortunate and unlikely, I grant you. But he is an Ood. Maybe such hygiene was one of the factors which led Amy and Rory to reject their Ood butler once and for all - and may've even contributed to the stress the couple clearly experiences later?
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:04 p.m. CST
make that the Tesselecta suit--LOL, had just read an Avengers related article
by batmancw
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST
lol perigee
by ByTor
That was awesome! And it's even funnier with the typo: ~You know I love the whole ~Last Centaurian~ thing So she wants Rory to dress up as a centaur? (Maybe Rory is Alex Rodriguez.)
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:13 p.m. CST
Ood poo would make a good name for a band
by DoctorTom
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST
So excited for tomorrow.
by gotilk
Pond Life picked up at the end there. Much improved. Welcome to all the new people I see. GREAT to see you here.
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST
batmanwc - Omega symbol and the timeline
by DoctorTom
From River's standpoint, Time of the Angels is after A Good Man Goes To War. From the Doctor's and Amy's it's after. From a universal chronological standpoint we don't know since they never showed the year for A Good Man Goes To War.
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:23 p.m. CST
by Merrick
Drop me an e-mail! Be sure to include the e-mail you signed up for Talkbacks with so I'll know it's you (you don't need to send from that address). Nothing bad - a few things to run past you!
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST
Great Job, Merrick
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
Hey man, I just wanted to say that you've done a great job at keeping the Docbacks going between seasons. As someone who has missed large chunks of the classic show, it's been great to read your reviews on a Friday and then sometimes watch the episodes for myself to see what I think. I'm excited about the show coming back tomorrow and also a little nervous. As a big fan of the story arcs from the last two seasons, I'm slightly sad that we probably won't be getting one this time around. I also worry that the long wait for this season has caused my expectations of the show to raise too much. Still it'll be great to see the gang back and I look forward to some interesting Docbacks ahead.
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST
doctortom--THANKS for the timeline clarification
by batmancw
Aug. 31, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST
Almost there!
by Andy Buckle
Well, it's been a long wait, but it's almost time for New Who, and I'm really rather excited. Hi to all Docbackers, old and new - looking forward to some interesting discussions on here in the next few weeks.
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:14 p.m. CST
no problem, batmancw
by DoctorTom
The timeline does get confusing, especially since from the universe's standpoint her last adventure (Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead) takes place before Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone or her getting the Vortex Manipulator in The Pandorica Opens (which presumably had her getting out of Stormcage). (I'd have to check, but I think that chronologically Time of the Angels is after the early part in The Pandorica Opens). it gets confusing quickly. I'm hoping there's an update to the plot of the Doctor's adventures as a Subway Map after the new season is done: http://www.crispian.net/DoctorWho/DrWhoTubeMap.html
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:17 p.m. CST
I cannot wait...
by Kevin Bolinger
till tomorrow. This shall be a day long remembered, it has seen the end of our wait, and soon...hang on, wrong franchise. I am so excited! New Who after such a long wait! Pond Life, I can take it or leave it. Oh, and Merrick, love that little warning at the top about the moderation. This is the only place on AICN I really post...other than the Jaws stuff, shame I did not win my favorite film on Blu Ray...thought my head bump scar story was a winner :( Anywho....Bring on the Asylum!
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Love the tubemap thing. Haven't seen that before. Very cool.
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:29 p.m. CST
@gland_of_omega: (pardon me!) - GOO above the OOD on the LOO...
by wtriker1701
Hope, this doesn't make me vanish forever... Yes, I'm back - and my unfunniest jokes, also. It's been a long time... and I'm feeling a great vibe here regarding season 7! Hit or Miss? I say: HIT!
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST
by ByTor
That's an awesome image. New desktop, ahoy!
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:45 p.m. CST
"Silence will fall" voice
by KanekoFan
In my earlier comment, I did not mean to suggest that the voice was one of The Silents (the species). But I am operating on the assumption that The Silence (the order) is behind the explosion. But that could be a flawed assumption, for sure.
Aug. 31, 2012, 3:57 p.m. CST
About Time !
by cosmic_dolphin
Been looking forward to some new Who since Xmas. Thought the final Pond Life Episode was very good, pity the first four weren't in the same vein but I enjoyed them for what they were. Think I'd prefer the preview mini episodes of last season as they set the upcoming shows up well. Did anybody else get an email from the BBC today inviting them to apply to be on the 'Dr Who Consumer Panel' ? I said yes immediately of course but was wondering where they got my email address. I must have signed up for something at some point in time on the website. Talking of which am I the only one dissappointed that the URL for the official BBC Who site is no longer BBC.co.uk/drwho ? It's /programmes/p00xymkb ... why change it ?
Aug. 31, 2012, 4 p.m. CST
Unstoppablepoopenstein, you mean as opposed to Yeti Poo?
by DoctorTom
Why else would Jon Pertwee's apocryphal Yeti actually BE in the loo in Tooting Bec?
Aug. 31, 2012, 4:05 p.m. CST
...or was SCATological humour the joke, poopenstein?
by Seph_J
Aug. 31, 2012, 4:08 p.m. CST
Faecal Agenda...
by dj_bollocks
... just replaces the Gay Agenda... /joking ! This is Moff doing the Daleks - it's the fanwankery dream... I feel an exemplary performance in the works... Out tomorrow evening so looking forward to still having a beer buzz whilst watching it on the iPlayer.. And if you missed it Karen was on The One Show tonight... It was on whilst I was in the gym... don't judge... It's not up yet but when it is you'll find it here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01md4xg/The_One_Show_31_08_2012/
Aug. 31, 2012, 4:10 p.m. CST
by dvdhound
...this will be the first time I'm watching episodes completely new and at the mercy of the weekly timetable, not being able to Netflix the newest season. That being said, I'm stoked. The last Pond Life seems to be setting up their exit for the series (they'll be missed) and I'm interested in seeing how this incarnation of the Doctor handles it. The 10th Doctor never really seemed to handle being alone well, and he was chipper as all get out. Anyway...bring on the Who!
Aug. 31, 2012, 4:42 p.m. CST
The Voice in the Tardis, the one who says Silence will fall <potential spoiler>
by mukhtabi
My gut says that was the foreshadowing of The Master. He's been empowering and enabling the Silence from the background for the whole stretch of time. That's my prediction.
Aug. 31, 2012, 4:47 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Do you mean a type of Deadly Assassin Master? Cos that voice in the TARDIS is all kinds of snarly and evil.
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:04 p.m. CST
my prediction for "Asylum of the Daleks"
by berserkrl
It is on the planet Skaro that the Doctor is finally put on trial. He listens calmly as his list of evil crimes is read, and sentence passed. He is then given a choice between being sent to prison and being sent to an insane asylum. He chooses the asylum because he expects it to be easier, but he soon clashes with the chief supervisor, the rigid and manipulative Dalek Ratched. After a long battle of wills, the Doctor is finally lobotomised. Silence has fallen.
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:23 p.m. CST
#newtowho - here's an idea
by ByTor
So BBCA is doing this #newtowho thing where you're supposed to tweet about your first Who experience. Well, pah on Twitter; let's do it HERE. My first Who experience: It was the late 70's; not sure of the exact year. I was in our family room, lying on the sofa, sick with some kind of flu. It was Sunday night, and normally by this time I'd be in bed, but being ill I couldn't sleep well, so I was watching PBS. They always ran Monty Python at 10:00, and I'd been a fan for a few years. After that came (I think) Dave Allen...and then this show I'd never seen before called Doctor Who. The episode was The Invasion of Time part 1. Now, like many (most?) PBS stations, ours ran Who in movie format, meaning the individual episodes were assembled into a single, long, movie-like show, but our station never let the timeslot run more than 90 minutes (4 episodes); 6-parters were split into two 3-part movies, so what I really got was parts 1-3 of Invasion of Time. I enjoyed it thoroughly, but was light-headed and later forgot about the show for a while. Some weeks later I spotted it in the TV Guide, and tuned in to enjoy Genesis of the Daleks. And I've been hooked ever since. How about you folks? How did you discover Doctor Who?
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:34 p.m. CST
bytor -- my early experiences with Who
by HornOrSilk
My first couple experiences were watching 1 or 2 mins late at night flipping channels, seeing something which I thought looked ridiculously stupid and so passed on (right now I think it was either from Revenge of the Cybermen with the Cybermat, or something from Hand of Fear). A few months later, the local station which would eventually become our Fox Station started playing Doctor Who on Sunday Evenings. The first we watched as a family was "Creature from the Pit," which we sort of, as a family, did a MST3K kind of reaction to it as we watched it (this was about 83, before MST3K, and I was 9). It was funny and I enjoyed it, so I made sure we watched it again the next week. After a couple weeks, I started videotaping it... and they showed some classics (Genesis of the Daleks, Sontaran Experiment, Revenge of the Cybermen), then they jumped and showed Logopolis which completely confused me. They stopped showing it then I looked up stuff at a bookstore, and found out about multiple Doctors and all. When PBS about 6 months later started showing Peter Davison, I was already hooked.
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:39 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
As a kid in the 80s I recall week after week of sitting down and having the absolute crap scared out of me. One week it would be Sylvester McCoy's Doctor having words with an insane Davros (in Remembrance), the next it could be a really rather creepy Kandyman creature, followed in subsequent weeks by that horrific werewolf from Greatest Show in the Galaxy, and even that creepy black cat from Survival creeped me right out. So, my first memories of DW was being scared every week. And I loved it. And went right back and watched everything that came before. Superb stuff.
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:44 p.m. CST
Good stuff, hornorsilk
by ByTor
I didn't start taping it for a while, because we were late to the VCR game at my house (heck, we didn't get one until JVC came out with the first front-loader). My best friend, however, had one. Once we discovered that we both loved the show, he invited me over. I spent a weekend at his place. PBS had just aired season 18 for the first time, so he started me with The Leisure Hive. The new opening titles with the Howell arrangement blew me away, especially as my buddy had the VCR hooked up to a nice audio system. To this day I still love that theme more than any other. We watched straight through Logopolis. This made me crazy, of course, as we hadn't gotten S19 yet, so PBS went back to S12. We then found a comic store that also sold Doctor Who stuff, so we devoured everything there we could get our hands on.
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:45 p.m. CST
Awesome, seph_j
by ByTor
Wish I'd've discovered the show at a young enough age for that!
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST
hey everybody!!!
by GeptaOO1
a round of hugs for everyone!
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:49 p.m. CST
by mukhtabi
Exactly to the tee what I was thinking!
Aug. 31, 2012, 5:51 p.m. CST
Shopping list for Dr who watch party
by History101
Sherbert for the sonic screwdrivers Marshmallows for Tardis rice crispy treats Croissants and hot dogs for K-9 dogs dalek cake Off to the store.......
Aug. 31, 2012, 6:14 p.m. CST
19 hours and 6 minutes till Asylum!!!!
by Seph_J
Aug. 31, 2012, 6:32 p.m. CST
Nice to see so many of the crew back already. + Replies.
by veteran_of_mu
I'm moving house this weekend so will likely be pretty quiet until later in the 'back. @MOV, We docbackers love to be scared by DW. If we didn't post our fears, we wouldn't be true to ourselves, would we? Besides, as the token aussie here, I pretty much have to wave the tall-poppy-syndrome flag. @Merrick, Thanks for the clarification. On my first experience, it was hiding behind the couch in 1967 during a Troughton era Daleks episode. Just their scary voices were enough to convince me the world was coming to an end. I knew nothing at all about DW but somehow got the impression it had already been running for 50 years at that time. After that it sat in my too-scary-to-watch basket until Planet of the Spiders - which I think I actually saw in colour in probably 1975. The show was a favourite among Aussie school children so it would have been unavoidable even if I hadn't been hooked. It ran at 5pm after The Goodies but before the evening news.
Aug. 31, 2012, 6:50 p.m. CST
Yes, it is nice.. but we are missing one major DocBacker
by HornOrSilk
SJW, time for you to show up!
Aug. 31, 2012, 7:38 p.m. CST
E-mail sent, Merrick
by gotilk
anything you need, name it.
Aug. 31, 2012, 8:04 p.m. CST
by GeptaOO1
what about that video camera?
Aug. 31, 2012, 8:21 p.m. CST
DocBack S7 YAYYYYYY!
by Bab5fan
Posted once or twice, cannot wait for Asylum...hope it is as good as reviews have been saying. Great work Merrick. You stay classy DocBackkers.
Aug. 31, 2012, 8:28 p.m. CST
And a big hello to one and all.........it's been a while!
by shibleybc
Boing........time for bed.......wait a mo, I'm in a different time zone from the norm! Trust me to be six hours behind the UK and my comfy sofa and the BBC broadcast :( Ah well I get to watch it with a "fellow" docbacker :) Have fun y'all and I'll see you on the flip side! :)
Aug. 31, 2012, 8:47 p.m. CST
I for one. . .
by maelstrom_ZERO
. . .am incredibly hyped for Asylum. I rewatched S1's Dalek, and S5's Victory of the Daleks just to prime myself for tomorrow's episode. I'm pretty lucky I got into Doctor Who. I remember seeing a random post of it on AICN a couple years ago before S6 came out, and I had no idea what it was, being an American. Then I randomly did a YouTube search and saw the S6 trailer: http://www.you tube.com/watch?v= 9vIsQ25Krq8. And after seeing how cinematic and amazing and cool that trailer was, I started from S1's Rose and just kept watching. Doctor Who is just so good.
Aug. 31, 2012, 8:50 p.m. CST
Can't wait! Oh wait. I have to. iTunes. Oh well. At least its Labour Day weekend.
by tangcameo
Which means I won't have to get up way WAY too early and download Breaking Bad.
Aug. 31, 2012, 8:51 p.m. CST
I thought the post appearing at the bottom was a new AICN thing
by tangcameo
I thought it was like IMDB showing you the post and not letting you post again for a while. I even looked for the little countdown clock.
Aug. 31, 2012, 9:01 p.m. CST
Maybe what happens to the Ponds... *SPECULATIVE SPOILERS*
by tangcameo
...is that they just break up and choose not to see each other again. Maybe its that simple (no dalek death, no angel sends them to different eras, no brain burning mindmeld with a Time Lord, no other dimension) but just as sad as they say it will be.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:06 p.m. CST
A few more unanswered questions
by Minque
I'm hoping these questions will be answered in the next few weeks: Who are the two cloaked figures hiding behind the sarcophagi in the museum in The Big Bang and the one hiding behind the hut in The Impossible Astronaut? Who was hiding in Amelia's room in The Eleventh Hour? I just noticed - during my umpteenth viewing - that when Amelia is outside, her window drapes are open, when she starts packing, the drapes are closed; then she runs from the room and when she runs back the drapes are open again. It appears like someone had been hiding behind them. To answer the question asked here today: my sister and I became fans during college, watching Tom Baker on the local PBS station. It stopped being shown, and I lost track until coming across an article in Entertainment Weekly, I think, raving about The Eleventh Hour. I watched it, then caught up quickly on S1-4 on Netflix. Really looking forward to tomorrow: AotD and the Docback afterward!
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:44 p.m. CST
The Daily Show came on tonight
by v1cious
Did anyone else know that? I didn't.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:53 p.m. CST
Cracks and cloaked figures...
by Hellstrom
The cracks appearing was due to the fact that the TARDIS was exploding in the time vortex so it was exploding at every moment in every part of the universe/ So all space/time was being destroyed. The cracks were reality disintegrating. Amy not remembering the Daleks and the town being weird was because the crack was slowly eating away at events in time and space (such as the Dalek invasion(s)) . The Doctor also mentioned that a crack probably explained why a huge CyberKing was forgotten about in London. I think the "cloaked figures" were just made up in people's minds. In The Impossible Astronaut it was just something hanging from the shack.
Aug. 31, 2012, 10:59 p.m. CST
by gotilk
Good to see you again. You have no idea how much things have changed here... but I found your e-mail address.... yet still did not have a mailing address. I searched all my e-mails. Reply to my e-mail with an address (again??? sorry...) and the thing WILL be mailed. It's an oldie, but it shoots DV , widescreen... and I am NOT using it. Just get a hold of me. If I sent to an old address, shoot me an e-mail at email@example.com . Miss you ,man.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:02 p.m. CST
The *boing* thing...
by gotilk
That was nice to see again. It has been a while.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:04 p.m. CST
first time here
by jason baum
been reading the docbacks for a long time & finally taking the plunge to join in - just in time for the new series! gang...i cannot express how excited i am! couple speculative thoughts i got for S7: -DYING to see the source of the new companions 'shocking' origins. -i am actually a little disappointed that we won't have any 2 part arc's this year. i really hope the larger mythology/mysteries aren't ignored in favor of this 'reboot' moffat's going for. -i'm absolutely drawing blanks on what the moff has planned for the 50th. got no clue what he's gonna spring on us. cheers to S7 & getting to know you guys!
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:41 p.m. CST
orange cinema - WELCOME!!
by Merrick
So glad you decided to jump in! A fine and fascinating group of folks here...happy to have you with us!
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:45 p.m. CST
by Merrick
Welcome once more...and thank you for the kind words...
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:47 p.m. CST
by Merrick
Your kindness is VERY much appreciated - so glad you're here with us! Thanks for being a part of this...
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:49 p.m. CST
by Merrick
Thanks for the shout out. Love your screenname. Great show, even when uneven.
Aug. 31, 2012, 11:55 p.m. CST
My dream 50th Anniversary episode
by Timothy Boone
Warning, this is total fanwank: -- Create some sort of massive crisis, generated by the Master working with the Daleks, to cause the Doctor to revert back through past regenerations. -- Get Benedict Cumberbatch or Idris Elba to play the Master. -- Use "Forest Gump" technology to have old footage of past Doctors (up to Paul McGann) interact with Matt Smith. Get McGann and Christopher Ecclston to make cameos. -- Have David Tennant and Matt Smith team up to take on the Master and the Daleks. And have them bicker the whole time. -- Get a major guest star to play an uspecified future regeneration of the Doctor who comes in and helps straighten things out in a big showy scene. I'm thinking either Colin Firth, Michael Sheen or Hugh Laurie.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:51 a.m. CST
I've seen eps 1 to 3...
by huskerdu2
...Asylum is really terrific: spooky, creepy, big, moving, funny and packed to the gills with cool stuff. It's also very surprising...but not in the way you might think! ;) My favourite of the 3 eps is probably Dinosaurs On a Spaceship. Just pure entertainment. One of the shows best ever action episodes, but with some great character moments peppered throughout. David Bradley's great as the villain and has some excellent moments with Smith's Doctor, while Mark Williams is really good as Rory's Dad, Brian. A corking romp! A Town Called Mercy is the weakest of the three (the pay-off at the end is, frankly, a bit limp) but it's still very enjoyable and benefits from strong direction, good performances and a great use of the Spanish locations. Enjoy!
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:20 a.m. CST
Maybe Rory..
by cosmic_dolphin
Was rude with his Ood and Amy threw him out.
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:56 a.m. CST
Too bad Amy is leaving. That opening theme should be used for one episode
by HornOrSilk
As the opening of an actual story... I would do it as a return to the Land of Fiction, where Amy and the Doctor have been made to believe they are actors in a show called Doctor Who. River or Rory would save them in the second half.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:14 a.m. CST
I'm a Supporting Artist on Doctor Who
by Andy
And your all in for a treat this season. It's going to be epic.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:16 a.m. CST
I preferred 'Night & The Doctor' to 'Pond Life'...
by Captain Howdy
.. but it didn't stop me from enjoying this latest collection of mini-sodes for what they are: Great little insights into the downtime of the Doctor and his companions - ones that grant the viewer an occasional revelation, and which have both ended on a suitably poignant note. More of these, please. In related news: 7hrs 5mins...
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:09 a.m. CST
Dr WHO Q.L.A Anti-time device. For sale at EE. I beleive that a major storyline, plot points have been indulged to us accidentally as this toy has a lot of 7th series story points. Read the listing I have included te URL in the comment.
by xombygodd
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:38 a.m. CST
Nothing on TPB as of this morning - so much for early leakage!
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:39 a.m. CST
On an unrelated note - Anyone watching (watched?) the new Sky 1 "Sinbad" series? Is it worth checking out? Love me some Sinbad...
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:08 a.m. CST
@xomby: Holy cow! That product detail REALLY has a lot of juicy bits!
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:23 a.m. CST
That toy does have some interesting tidbits
by HornOrSilk
But remember, the "Doctor disappearing" refers to his "death" last year. I expect we will see some of this tonight. There is a war going on now. Probably leads to the fall of the 11th..
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:39 a.m. CST
My comment yesterday has disappeared...
by brechtsky
Did the board get moved, restarted or something? Or am I pseudo banned or some nonsense? I noticed my post appeared at the bottom below the submit button, but then I reloaded and it was fine... Now its gone... Hmf.
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST
@ helstrom - I don't see backward explanation happening
by brechtsky
I am SURE the silence will return and be a long time enemy of the doctors, but I don't see them trying to retcon the order of events from the last two series. I was watching doctors daughter last night, and I had this small desire for the new companion to be the doctors and rivers daughter or something... Kind of throw back to the original series when Hartnells doc was with his "niece" .... Plus it could be a kind of fun way to cap off this relationship of theirs that we finally think we know everything about, and it certainly would be a new twist on the boring old British 20-something chick companions that seem a bit too prevalent in new who... That's why I loved rory coming along, and would love to see a male companion (ship sailed on that one), an aboriginal companion, or something else that would change the dynamic up a bit...
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:16 a.m. CST
Lingering Questions (7 or more)--at least for me--whaddaya think?
by batmancw
1) The Voice--who is it? I still dont think it is the Silence & I think it is unlikely that it's the Master 2) Who took control of the Tardis during The Lodger & Pandorica Eps?--likely related to the Voice? or are they 2 different entities since we saw a Silence type of "Tardis" in the Lodger? 3)WHO made the Tardis explode?--Who would benefit from the Total Event Collapse it was causing? 4) Did the Tardis itself take River to Amy's house to discover the Roman/Pandorica evidence? If not, who did, since it was helpful to the Doctor? 5) How did the clerics/Madame K beam Amy's ganger signal through the Time Vortex & into the Tardis? Where did they get the ability/tech to do that? The Silence? Someone else? 6) Despite the different places in the timeline why do the clerics in AGMGTW who are sporting the Omega symbol view the Doctor as THE enemy while the clerics in the Byzantium/Weeping Angels eps who have the same logo on their camos(later in the timeline--thanks to doctortom for the clarification) accept him as an ally and even warn him about not being able to trust River? IF they are of the same order--what has happened to change their perception of the Doctor? Shouldnt they be happy that River "kills" him? 7)Lastly, wouldnt it make sense that the answers to these and any other questions might all tie together in a 50th Anniversary spectacular?
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:20 a.m. CST
batmancw -- may answers
by HornOrSilk
Some of these are speculative, of course. 1) I think it was one of the Silence, maybe their leader. 2) The Silence took control via River Song, who is not easily disconnected from them. 3)The Silence are trying to destroy the TARDIS. They probably think it is a way to destroy the Doctor. 4) River did it -- she is trying to help, and she knows how to use the TARDIS 5) Don't know, and it is one question I did have 6) I think there are different denominations of clerics 7) Doctor Who?
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:23 a.m. CST
Hornorsilk--Thanks for the input--ALL are good & probable answers IF Moff isnt playing with us
by batmancw
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:30 a.m. CST
also @ horn--good point RE: Who is the LEADER of the Order of the Silence
by batmancw
That is something that has yet to be revealed. There was that reference to the Papal Mainframe & yet the Tardix Index File website treats the Church as a different entity than The Silence--listing them as allies...hmmmmm http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Silence
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:35 a.m. CST
2 hours 45 minutes!!
by Seph_J
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:58 a.m. CST
POND LIFE is better as a single 5-minute short film
by supertoyslast
iPlayer link for UK viewers here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01mmqtt/
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:12 a.m. CST
supertoyslast is right - POND LIFE does work better as a single film
by Merrick
Added embed above, or here's a link... YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZkWjkvaKpA&feature=player_embedded Thanks, for pointing this out supertoyslast!
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:23 a.m. CST
Another first timer
by James farler
Hi all I've been reading the doc backs since their inception and like a few others maybe now is the time to say hello. My first experience watching Who that I can consciously remember was when Tom Baker regenerated. I watched a few before that with Romana but cannot remember any episode titles (I was only 4 at the time) and I have been a fan ever since. I'm so looking forward to the new episode in a couple of hours time and look forward to debating the why's and wherfore's afterward. Enjoy everyone it's going to be great
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:24 a.m. CST
dr_adama - GREETINGS!!!
by Merrick
Enjoy the show and hope you have a lovely time here! So glad you're joining us!
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:57 a.m. CST
See, Pond Life...
by Kevin Bolinger
I said back in the part 1 talkback that it would make more sense and play better as one long ep instead of the little 1 minute things...Sometimes I like being right :)
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:58 a.m. CST
Hang on, do you all realise....
by Seph_J
that a Doctor Who episode called ASYLUM of the DALEKS is going to begin TODAY in approximately 1 hour and 22 minutes?!?!?!? I mean.... Wahhhh!!!!!!
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:10 p.m. CST
by gotilk
I know.... mind blown.... Crept up on me.
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST
by gotilk
NICE to see you. Exciting, isn't it??
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST
My enthusiasm runs deep today.
by gotilk
I just watched the Nerdist's celebrity bowling with Matt, Karen The Moff and Rory. And it was wonderful. Someone.... turned out to be a natural bowler. Not who you would think.
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST
supertoyslast - Thank you!
by wtriker1701
Great watching it as a 5 minute piece. Makes it whole as a teaser. (Here's silly me counting down the minutes to The Asylum...)
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST
@batmancw re: question 3
by James Grinnell
Hi everyone. Good to be back, and excited about new series. batmancw, really good question 3... Who would benefit. Got me thinking. Maybe what we're seeing is a preparation for the return of the timelords. They need the Doctor out of the way and maybe, an exploding TARDIS is just powerful enough to break the time locked timelords (try saying that 5 times fast). Maybe the silence, Madame k and all are preparing the way for the timelords return. Then again, probably not. See you all on the other side of AotD.
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST
Batmanwc - some of your points
by DoctorTom
1) it's said it's the Silence, but could turn out to be different. Some of us had been rooting for it to be someone like Sutekh when we first heard the voice (before Season 6) 2) It was only The Pandorica Opens where someone took control. In The Lodger, it was more a jamming pattern. Feedback from the timeship feeding off of people to try to get powered up was causing more of an interference pattern that messed with the TARDIS. The type of timeship also seen with the Silence in Day of the Moon. So, you can really add a question of where did the Silence get the technology from (with a subquestion of did they use that for initially coming to Earth and setting up, or were they here all along). 3) It remains to be seen. Speculation has run rampant that the purpose wasn't to destroy the universe per se, but to put cracks in the universe so that something could get through, knowing the Doctor would fix things up later. Who this is would most likely be one of the extradimensional types wanting to get back in - Omega, for example, or the Great Intelligence (bet more on the former than the latter). Or it could be Sutekh just wanting to destroy things again, or one of Fenric's games (or anybody like that, really - could be the Black Guardian trying to get back in). One interesting speculation that we've had is that the person who caused it was the Doctor. Not the Doctor running around now, but the Doctor who stepped into the crack to let time heal up, and is now outside of time. The Doctor running around now may just be a creation from Amy's mind who's in the post-Big Bang II universe, with the original still outside the universe. Although this would be fascinating, I doubt Moffat would do this though since it would probably alienate the mass audience he's trying to keep - the ones who seemed to have problems following Season 6. 4) River piloted it herself. The Doctor already knew something was up since Pandora's Box was one of her favorite stories and the Romans were her favorite subject, so he had River go check her house for clues. 5) It's not totally revealed yet, but we do know that Demon's Run is roughly the same time period (give or take a couple of centuries) as Flesh and Stone/Time of the Angels, the backstory for the Talons of Weng Chiang (and for Jack Harkness) and the time River got her vortex manipulator, so there's some cheap nasty time travel devices available. We also saw the Silence with a timeship like the one we saw in the Lodger. Presumably they're using one of these types of things to broadcast between time periods. The far more interesting question, actually, is how they actually broadcast into a different bubble universe in The Doctor's Wife. 6) I'm sure it will be revealed later. It hasn't been totally stated yet. it could be because of slightly different time periods with an attitude mofification in between, or one might be a splinter sect of another. Just as a side note here - the Omega symbol? Some people have suggested that it might be a map of Stonehenge. I don't know if they think it makes them part of the Alliance that briefly formed or what, but it's worth noting. Maybe the Stonehenge bit's supposed to tie in with King Arthur and that? And that since we know a future incarnation of the Doctor is Merlin, maybe the Doctor set the church up? I don't know, it sounds a bit dodgy. 7) Yes and no. I actually thing a few things are going to be tied up in Season 7, before a 50th anniversary special. I think Moffat's attitude with a 50th anniversary special will be that he emphatically does not want that to be a place where he's tying up a bunch of his plot threads and will depend on the audience having watched the past 2 years in order to make any sense of what's happening. I think he'll want to make it a more general celebration that will be accessible to mass audiences? Bring in bits from the past, sure - maybe past Doctors, or Ian or Susan, maybe Time Lords or Omega or whatever rumor you want to look at, but not put in stuff that the people who don't watch Who regularly will feel too lost and switch the show off. And, yes, I think it would be fair to plan the 50th anniversary story like you will have a lot of people who don't normally watch the show tune it for this special. So, I suspect you'll see a lot (if not all) plot tying in the last episode before the special shows.
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:25 p.m. CST
by DoctorTom
nice to see you back here! How are things going for you now, any improvements?
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST
ot - Sherlock (Moffat's version) being turned into a manga
by DoctorTom
For those who read Japanese, Sherlock will start in the October 4 issue of Young Ace. We'll have to see how long it takes for it to show up somewhere in an English translation. It's really weird - the last thing I expected to hear on the day of the new Doctor Who season launching was something related to Sherlock.
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST
Doctor Who Electronic Q.L.A. Anti Time Device
by paineywoo
The younguns will love it but I think it's just a bit of 'toy fun' for da kidz :) Has a back story though (that I found on YouTube along with it's sound effects): After the Doctor disappeared, the Cybermen and Daleks went to war across the universe. And on each world they destroyed they left in their wake, Stone Angels, picking over the dead and dying. But the Cleric army fought back and scoured the dead worlds left after the wars, looking for the wreckage of Daleks, Cybermen, and broken Angels to create a hugely powerful 'anti-time' device. A device part Dalek, part Cyber technology and used the Quantum signature from the Angel to trigger a Gateway to pull enemies into the time Vortex.... Erasing them from Time completely. This Dalek & Cyberman Hybrid Technology Unit includes four play modes: Dalek, Cyberman, Angel & multi technology. If that IS a spoiler for a future episode it's pretty big!
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST
by gingerbloke
Hi all, another longtime lurker here finally signing up to join in all the fun. Really looking forward to the new season and chatting with you fine folks.
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST
paineywoo.... you probably should have *SPOILERED* that post, mate...
by Seph_J
Sept. 1, 2012, 12:46 p.m. CST
by paineywoo
I'm pretty sure it's not from the show. BUT I did just find 'another' toy advert which does sound VERY spoilery. So, oops and sorry again - anyway they are all over the toy websites, from Argos to Forbidden Planet!
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:10 p.m. CST
Ten minutes everyone! See you on the other side!
by Seph_J
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:11 p.m. CST
OMG..10 mins away..Finally something good on TV!!!
by paul cook
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:13 p.m. CST
Less than 10 minutes now! Are you sitting comfortably?
by Mister Vertue
New intro sequence awaits!
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST
huskerdu2 - you've seen episodes 1-3?
by Mister Vertue
I doubt that. Where did you see them exactly?
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST
MOV!? Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?!
by Seph_J
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:20 p.m. CST
Welcome to the party, gingerbloke!
by DoctorTom
You've picked a good day to jump in the posting pool. Glad to see you're willing to share your opinions and musings with us!
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:22 p.m. CST
Okay, time for me to enter thread silent mode
by DoctorTom
actually am going out and shouldn't be back until just about the time BBCA starts showing the ep. But, this way I won't be tempted to look at spoilers for the next few hours. Enjoy, people! Be back later.
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:26 p.m. CST
doctortom , gotilk
by Kevin Bolinger
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:27 p.m. CST
doctortom, gotilk
by Kevin Bolinger
I am ok, still in a kind of holding pattern, but how can I stay away from here when there is New Who to View...why yes, that did rhyme :P
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:29 p.m. CST
nice one..
by gingerbloke
Cheers doctortom...
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:31 p.m. CST
doctortom--thanks for the detailed reply--I'm thinking Omega, but the symbols COULD be meant to have us think that & then it's someone else
by batmancw
One point--Re: River piloting the Tardis to Amy's--the Doctor asks her what she's doing there & she replies "the Tardis went wrong", or something like that--i just rewatched it yesterday as they re ran it--so it doesn seem as though that was intentional. Maybe Sexy took her there because she needed to go? As for your other points--between you & horn y'all have both provided some good plausible/possible answers to my questions & of course...Time will tell...pun intended. I'll be back to chat with y'all again tonight or tomorrow after AOTD has aired in the US
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:37 p.m. CST
MOV in the fold!
by wtriker1701
What better way to watch!
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:44 p.m. CST
English Whovians
by mukhtabi
A modest request. When you invariably assess the opening episode, being an American stuck at work until after Doctor Who premieres here in the states, please fill my tedious hours of doldrum with depictions of this new TITLE SEQUENCE. I'm sure the episode is awesome (who doesn't love a good rollicking adventure involving the Daleks?) but I REALLY want to hear impressions of the Title sequence since I won't be watching it til after everybody else anyway. And I'm pretty sure it will be EVERYBODY else, oy... The joys of college librarianship.
Sept. 1, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST
Its very enjoyable so far
by tomdolan04
the best Who time ive had since TGWW. Less than a 50% strike rate for S6 IMO, but this is a good romp so far. <p> New companion - first impressions are intriguing. And hot. Snappy pace and good dialogue after the bogged down River shenanigans...
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:09 p.m. CST
That wasn't too bad until the end. And then... [SPOILER]
by buggerbugger
...oh crap, it was Sally the Cyberman all over again, wasn't it? What an awful, predictable "twist". And that "Doctor who?" joke is the joke that just keeps on giving and giving and giving, isn't it?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:11 p.m. CST
by paul cook
That is all.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST
Just finished
by tomdolan04
VERY strong ep all round. Very interesting use of Jenna. The Ponds starting the ep apart seemed a bit contrived but overall it felt energized as a show. Really dont agree the split season is the way to go still and not just for selfish reasons.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:14 p.m. CST
Checking in from Australia
by Sydney2K
where it's being shown online locally by the ABC TV iView application.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
And I didn't find that twist predictable at all. I'll probably write more later but, for now, I'm probably going to watch it all again.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST
by notspock2
Was it common knowledge that Jenna Louise Coleman was in this episode? Ok, that was a nice solid start, some great twists and good slow build of tension. Thought the human daleks would bother me more than they did, but when we got ZOMBIE DALEKS (which should be the title of another episode, if they are going for slutty titles) all was forgiven... welcome back...
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:16 p.m. CST
by gingerbloke
Really enjoyed that, didn't see the end coming and really liked the lass in the pod.. SPOILER........... It'll be interesting too see how Oswin will be worked intothe show.. As much as I'll miss Amy i'm happy enough that the doctor is in good hands.. HERE ENDETH THE SPOILERS Next weeks ep looks great too...
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST
Granted - The Doctor Who line was a bit laboured
by tomdolan04
but it made sense within the episode and it was a good payoff.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:19 p.m. CST
Ahh cmon. Ive been a critic
by tomdolan04
but it was much better in terms of delivery than the Sally the Cyberman hoohah
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST
Bloody superb. And *spoilers*
by Seph_J
I think we may have just met our new companion ;)
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:21 p.m. CST
*spoilers* I've been doing this kind of work for close to 20 years (!?!?!?)...
by Merrick
...and I can't recall a single situation in which a production perpetrated a misdirect/sleight of hand as well as Moff & Co. keeping JLC's debut here unknown until transmit. Very, VERY well done gag...a tip of that hat to all involved!
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:23 p.m. CST
SPOILER ALERT! - i have to admit
by jon pertwee
as soon as he asked where she got the milk, i just knew she wasn't real in the literal sense. so, rory and amy are separated amy's a fashion model the daleks take care of their crippled nice to see the old dales again, even though a few of the new ones were there rory just happens to have a flashlight its too bad osman didn't reprogram the daleks into something else - a peace/hate conflicted being might have been cool - when she made them forget who the doctor is and by the ending it seems the doctor is mostly companion less now, though they're there next week with nefertiti and and the dinosaurs. oh, almost forgot, aside for the kissy part, fun episode. one last thing. if he and his new companion don't hook up until the holiday special, then why was the actress who will be playing her in this episode, in a major part?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:24 p.m. CST
Doctor Who has a history of this... spoiler connection...
by HornOrSilk
Earthshock represents the best example of this for TWO reasons...
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:24 p.m. CST
Merrick, I wasn't sure that was common knowledge,
by notspock2
but they may well have just pulled off something rather special there...
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST
My Favourite Scene...
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
..Was Amy seeing the Daleks as people whilst under the influence of the nanobots. Very sad and poignant.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST
by BlueLando
That was some The Prestige level mind-fuckery. :-)
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST
re: "ZOMBIE DALEKS"
by buggerbugger
I dunno, they were just really, really sleepy. Episode should've been called 'Bedroom of the Daleks', the place where all the sleepiest, snoriest Daleks are sent when the other Daleks don't want them cluttering up the control rooms and death labs.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Saw an interview with Karen Gillan where they asked her how it felt having JLC take over, and she said "I've seen pictures of her and Matt working together..." etc. I agree, wonderful surprise. A "Soufflé Surprise" as Moffat said.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST
by jon pertwee
i meant oswin.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST
by LarkStew
I enjoyed it, I thought it was better than most of the last series. Good set up, although the Amy/Rory thing came out of nowhere. I *think* Oswin is the new companion? Very cute but a bit too quick with the quips. The middle was a bit slow, yet more Amy/Rory histrionics, I'll be glad when they've gone. Great twist near the end, with some clever word play, there's a big clue earlier if you catch it, which I didn't. But then the ending... can someone explain what happened? I must have blinked or something because it didn't make sense to me at all!
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST
That was fun...but what the WHO happened to the titles?
by Gregman
That was fun. Good pacing some nice moments and the new companion looks promising but what happened to the opening titles and especially to the logo?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST
*SPOILERS* Blown away that...
by James Grinnell
Blown away that they kept the introduction of the new companion secret. Great opening episode, need to rewatch now. Looking forward to the theories on how Oswin becomes Carla, or was the Moff just lying about the new companions name?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST
notspock2 (re **spoiler**)
by Merrick
Not common knowledge. In fact, a politely assertive missive from the networks stated that discussing her appearance was specifically and absolutely verboten when writing up Asylum.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST
by James farler
Potential spoiler I didn't see the twist coming and found it a good payoff. I'm now interested to see how they manage to work it into future episodes. Are Amy and Rory going to gradually get turned into dalek tech? From what the doc said, the process seems pretty irreversible (not that means much in new who) Anyway I loved it, the best episode I've seen in many awhile and next weeks looks like good, mental fun.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST
by Nerfee
That was splendid.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:32 p.m. CST
bluelando... *SPOILERS* scratchmonkey re:zombie
by notspock2
it was in fact a twist from a Duncan Jones directed movie.. very well done though. Scratchmonkey, did you forget THE DEAD PEOPLE TURNING INTO DALEKS?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:32 p.m. CST
On the spoiler surprise: read this link
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:32 p.m. CST
by gingerbloke
Has there spoiler filled review up and I pretty much agree with them. In parts the show looked like they got a bigger SFX budget and in parts not so much.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:33 p.m. CST
Very good episode ... Fast pace, never dull ... 8/10
by GINGE_MUPPET
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:33 p.m. CST
It's on TPB already for all timezone-deflicted would-be viewers...
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:36 p.m. CST
Merrick, thanks for that bit of knowledge...*spoilers*
by notspock2
Kudos to the Doctor Who crew for pulling off that which I wish EVERY SINGLE SHOW COULD do. I guess since she's not actually in any scenes with anyone else they could have filmed her bits months later ...
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:38 p.m. CST
@tomdolan04 re: SPOILER
by buggerbugger
Oh, agreed, it was done better than the Sally the Cyberman bit. To be honest, I thought she'd be revealed to be a full-on Stengos head-in-a-Dalek-jar, so having her turn out to be an actual Dalek felt like a let-down to what I'd imagined in my sick and twisted mind. Looking forward to meeting her as a proper companion.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST
Really enjoyed that. *Spoilers*
by Pandas
I only really noticed one old series Dalek, near the end, with the old hemispherical style lights on top. The others all seemed to be the new series type with the "Davey lamp" style lights, plus a few of the new bigger "iDalek" type. I didn't notice any Hartnell era Daleks as per recent press features. Was I just not looking hard enough? Fab episode though!
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:42 p.m. CST
Notspock (SPOILERS)
by BlueLando
I didn't mean THAT twist - I meant the end credit 'wait, what?' twist with the credits. Namely who was in the episode who I didn't think would be. It was like The Prestige, where you're looking for one thing and then another is thrown at you.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:43 p.m. CST
by donkey_lasher
If the Doc ends up bumping into her "twin sister", I'm going cry bullshit.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:43 p.m. CST
*spoilers* The Special Weapons Dalek...
by Seph_J
...was clearly above all this. Just snoozing away, letting it all go on around him. Hilarious.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST
Best season opener since Eleventh Hour
by offscauta
But... It just fell apart a little in the last ten minutes. And (spoilers?) having the Daleks chant, "Doctor Who," was bad, but having the Doctor repeatedly say it ( to himself!) was too much. I still remain optimistic about the rest of the season.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST
where was the special weapons dalek?? i missed him (or her.. are daleks sexed BTW?)
by speckled_hen_drinker
otherwise marvellous ep.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST
bluelando---- ahhhhhh...*spoilers*
by notspock2
Ok, I recognised her straight off, and was having a bit of difficulty believing what i was seeing... still very impressed though.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:45 p.m. CST
Doctor Who Comfidential?
by James Grinnell
There's a short documentary about The life cycle of a Dalek up on the BBC website here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00y2rzx Plus they've got the new logo up. Not sure I like it, but thinking they've used Dalek bumps that just make it look like lightbulbs so possibly going to have a slightly different logo each week in keeping with the movie of the week idea?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:46 p.m. CST
re: "Scratchmonkey, did you forget THE DEAD PEOPLE TURNING INTO DALEKS?"
by buggerbugger
Oh, is that what you were referring to by "zombie" Daleks? I thought you meant the cobweb-covered "dead" Daleks. I know the Doctor said that the nano-wotsit converted intruders into Daleks, but I reckon he was talking bollocks. They'd simply been turned into those Dalek-people things, hadn't they? It's not as if death had stopped any ongoing process; I think they'd already been turned into what they were finally going to be: Inhuman servants with robot eye-stalks in the middle of their foreheads and guns in their hands. Mmm, wonder if the other hand has a plunger hidden in it? They strike me as some kind of variation on the robomen, so... yeah, they're zombie-like humanoid servants of the Daleks, aren't they?
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST
Another newbie here...
by DuncanDisorderly
I usually enjoy reading the Docbacks due to the level of knowledge, the theories and all-around fun you guys have. I too have decided to finally join in (providing that's okay, of course...) and I thought I'd share my thoughts on "Asylum of the Daleks". Personally, I enjoyed it. I guessed Oswyn's fate early on but it didn't spoil my enjoyment one iota. Also, Jenna-Louise Coleman was great. Very pleasing on the eye, too.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST
Special Weapons Dalek
by offscauta
Nice to see him, but a shame he didn't get to do anything.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST
I honestly didn't. Cause Moff be moffing!
by BlueLando
But I was spoiled for the first twist already online - by choice. So I spent the episode going 'duh... FUCKING DUH.' Then when I saw the credits went 'wait, what the shitake mushrooms?' Moff be moffing I guess.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:49 p.m. CST
by Merrick
>>> Plus they've got the new logo up. Not sure I like it, but thinking they've used Dalek bumps that just make it look like lightbulbs so possibly going to have a slightly different logo each week in keeping with the movie of the week idea? <<< I haven't heard officially, but my understanding is this will be the case. So, for Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - the DW logo will rendered in dino skin, or something to that effect? Town Called Mercy with an old West motif...etc.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:49 p.m. CST
slightly odd (ood?) feeling..
by speckled_hen_drinker
1st time poster.. i'm a bit scared..
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:50 p.m. CST
BTW, the companions name is..
by HornOrSilk
Clara Oswin. And possible spoiler info http://www.twitlonger.com/show/j4h03b
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST
re: Special Weapons Dalek snoozing away.
by buggerbugger
Yeah, he was more like a Special Naps Dalek. Did I say "he"? I bet that Dalek used to be called Wendy in a previous life, because only ladies get turned into ruthless Doctor Who cyborgs these days.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST
by Merrick
Welcome! Jump in! Have fun! Delighted to have you join us!
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:54 p.m. CST
by Merrick
Greetings! Awesome to have you with us!
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:56 p.m. CST
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
Moff's brain - if you read this then please call me. I don't care that you're already attached. We can work things out.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST
by jon pertwee
wrap your cerebral cortex around this - maybe, through the ins and outs of space and time, this episode is how the next companion leaves the show. though i'm thinking oswin is a clone.
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST
by gingerbloke
Thanks for the welcome..
Sept. 1, 2012, 2:59 p.m. CST
jon pertwee
by donkey_lasher
Then she would have done a River, and known the Doc as soon as she saw him.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3 p.m. CST
jon pertwee
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
That would be amazing!
The way she kind of broke the third wall at the end made me think she survived and transmatted onto the Dalek Ship. Perhaps she was so clever she managed to reverse engineer the Dalek process. She was as clever as the Doc after all, so it's possible.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:02 p.m. CST
Oh and the above is a spoiler
by donkey_lasher
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST
special weaponddalek
by speckled_hen_drinker
i found him(or her..)! thank the lord for iplayer and pausing!!
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST
re: "special weapons dalek?? i missed him (or her.. are daleks sexed BTW?)"
by buggerbugger
In the good old days, Daleks used to be cloned Kaled tissue plopped onto a conveyor belt that would deliver them to their individual death-dealing Sinclair C5 of wobbly doom. Nowadays I'm not so sure, although I'd assume that Daleks - much like Cybermen - aren't male or female, as sex has nothing to do with how they propagate themselves. They're "it"s. Hmm, that's a rather horrifying though. The Daleks artifically impregnating females of various species to produce a new race of Dalek-ish baby Kaled-things. Not before the watershed, of course.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST
Well, I think we also got an answer to one of my questions
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:05 p.m. CST
re: "special weapons dalek?? i missed him (or her.. are daleks sexed BTW?)"
by speckled_hen_drinker
2don't fancy yours much" yeh. fair enough!
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST
wow - took me back to be 10 years old.
by Scream327
* spoilers * Well done the Moff, I love the secret you was able to keep under your deerstalker. Ive just fallen in love with a new companion like I did when I was ten years old, when Ace turned up. Sassy, fit and able to hold her own with the Dr. I just hope the new companion is a exact copy of Oswain. Good to see the old blue and white Dalek too. PS what another great night in the Olympic stadium, 12 world records broken so far today.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST
It was pretty good but there were some annoyances
by photoboy
Jenna Louise Coleman was horribly smug and the "twist" was fairly blatant. I am intrigued to know how she can possibly be a companion at this point, I'm rather hoping we're going to get an actual Dalek as a companion in the TARDIS! I thought not showing more of the "old" Daleks in the asylum was a shame, although it was cool to hear Spiridon, Exilon, etc being mentioned. In particular I was hoping for more from the Special Weapons Dalek. I'm not super keen on the mixture of old and new Daleks on the ships either. I know the redesign was controversial and a lot of people hated them but I would have liked to have seen a few stories with them to see if they grew on me or not. My only other gripe is that I still feel like they're squeezing exposition in while running about or in places with lots of background noise. It makes it hard to hear what's being said at times and just feels like they're trying to fit too much into the story. Really the episode could have done with being trimmed down. All that stuff with the zombies on the shuttle and running about on the mountain could have been cut down without harming the main story. I would really liked to have had more scenes exploring the creepy asylum. All those bits with Rory gingerly sneaking through rooms full of dilapidated Daleks was fantastic and brilliantly atmospheric. Matt Smith was pretty good. Last series he was far too snouty and over the top. This was a welcome return to him being generally more understated and subtle, hopefully he'll play the whole series like this. All in all, it was pretty good and much more enjoyable than anything from the last series. I loved series 5 but series 6 just left me cold. If this week is any sort of indicator things might just be looking up!
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:11 p.m. CST
Anyone else a teeny bit worried that...
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
...the next three episodes won't manage to live up to this opener? I'm not an especially huge fan of Chris Chibnall and his episode is up next. I hope I'm wrong!
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST
anybody interested....?
by GeptaOO1
in chatting about doctor who in aicn chat? we could chat and watch the episode live at 6pm pacific time. I'll be in the chat room all day, the nickname I use is Houdini. I'll be in the main aicn chat, but also a room called #TARDIS, which you can join by typing /join TARDIS from the main chat room.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST
Prime Minister of the Daleks
by buggerbugger
Do you think he'll ever have to form a coalition government?
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:24 p.m. CST
surprisingly good!
by Kakii
Ive only liked 1 episode since matt became the Dr, the rest were just dull, annoying and didnt use MS to his potential. I only watched tonights as my 5yr old loves anything Dr Who, otherwise i wouldnt have bothered. Low and behold finally we get a great episode even with the annoying ponds, sorry not a fan of the ponds at all and cant wait till they leave. This opener was a big surprise and a great Who story, i really hope this quality continues this season and wipes away the turd seasons weve had since Tennant left.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST
And another question that will probably never be answered.
by offscauta
How did a cruise ship crash on to the asylum? Pretty rubbish impenetrable force field. Actually, the more I think about the episode the more things start to bug me. For example: the idea that Daleks are too scared to follow orders to go down to the asylum themselves. We've seen Daleks prepared to die to follow orders plenty of times.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:31 p.m. CST
@scratchmonkey: Or maybe the Daleks have Axlotl Tanks like the Tleilaxu from "Dune", and can genetically engineer whatever strain of Kaled mutation suits? Hmmm...
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:33 p.m. CST
S6 knockers (phwoar..?)
by speckled_hen_drinker
i really like S6! Yes, the pirate 1 was rubbish (in fact recently bought the box set and have watched all eps except the black pearl), but otherwise i think the series hold up to repeat viewings.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:35 p.m. CST
One thing I did really like...
by offscauta
The way Matt delivered the, "You made them forget me," line. He sounded, to me, slightly upset, despite the relief that it had saved his life. Fits with the Doctor's ego.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:42 p.m. CST
Great Series Opener
by cosmic_dolphin
Whilst I enjoy convoluted plot arcs and trying to work stuff out , my kids were a bit underwhelmed by last the last series and it didn't hold their interest. This one had the whole family glued to their seats and my 3 year old hiding under his Mum's chair. Well done Moffat & team on making WHO episodes a family event again in our house. Looking forward to the rest of them now. Very surprised to see JLC this early , hope they don't do a Martha or Amy and have them play a different character in the show.
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST
**spoiler** wallpaper
by Merrick
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/tv/isite-static/doctorwho/wallpapers/s07/jlc_s07e01_01_16x9.jpg slideshow here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p00y2wnk
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:46 p.m. CST
by meldy
We're all ears
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:47 p.m. CST
Plus new episode 2 trailer
by meldy
Sept. 1, 2012, 3:51 p.m. CST
by meldy
I think the talkback ate virtually all of my first post... Ah well, there's a nose joke going there if someone wants it.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:11 p.m. CST
by nonsensical
That is all.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:14 p.m. CST
Well I enjoyed that --with one reservation
by Timmid
Smart Alex Oswyn, genius mouthy Deus ex Machina -- its like having a talking sonic screw driver-- lets hope that if we ever see the character again its toned down -- she was seriously the most annoying "companion" for some time. I felt that there was a slightly different more serious tone to proceedings that I liked -- we were sold a dummy by Pond Life-- this didn't verge on the silly like some previous episodes and the Doctor feels an altogether more dangerous animal. Does the hive mind piece with the Daleks mean we don't see them for a while -- interesting. Matt Smith as usual was brilliant and yes , you could see the Oswyn piece coming but only because the Doctor figured it out first. I hate it when we the audience see a twist coming that a genius character doesn't so for me all was good with that. I don't think it was up there with the Eleventh Hour but it delivered big style for me. Good start.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:14 p.m. CST
*spoilers* skaro
by Seph_J
Gotta say, I loved the design of Skaro in those opening moments. Would LOVE to have seen the Dalek fleets mobilising there at the start of the Time War, along with the Time Lords preparing for battle on that gorgeous Gallifrey we saw during Tennants run. Those two planets have both been realised beautifully in the few brief moments we've had of them.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:15 p.m. CST
Brilliant episode
by Ronanmc McLoughlin
Hi this is my first post after a long time lurking! As a huge fan of Moffat ( in fact fan of anybody who makes Dr Who appear on tv) feel he did not let us down and gave a great movie-esque feel to the episode. The ponds are growing and this episode made me like them even more although hope the ood is not still sittting on their toilet Need to rewatch now
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:25 p.m. CST
You know why the Ood sits on a toilet?
by HornOrSilk
It's just an ood thing to do.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:39 p.m. CST
Great upgrade.
by DrX
Great episode. The titles design has been tweaked and rerendered. The lighting and camera work has also changed.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:48 p.m. CST
More Craig Ferguson Doctor Who talk
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:48 p.m. CST
Ending:why the Doctor says what he says {spoilers}
by SgtHowie
In character context, the "Doctor who?" lines are because he is reminded by the Daleks' chanting of what Dorium said to him in the last episode but one. He even says it with the same inflections that Dorium did. In audience context, it's just a reminder of the big question that the end of last season set up. It was nearly a year ago now so a little nudge was a good idea.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:50 p.m. CST
here is what I think will happen..
by emeraldboy
the dr goes back in time to when the alaska crashed and he save oswyn. she becomes the new companion.
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:52 p.m. CST
That was creepy and a bit disturbing.
by belasco_house
I liked it a lot :)
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:53 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Don't think he can do that, can he?
Sept. 1, 2012, 4:59 p.m. CST
If the description in the link I gave is right
by HornOrSilk
I'm thinking she is something like the Nestene Consciousness, with each part of her having an interdependent relationship with the whole.
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:08 p.m. CST
Lets get right to Jenna's appearance
by Hellstrom
I do NOT want her to be a coincidentally appearing relative, or some backwards/forwards life. Been there, done that. Be lame if they did it again. I say she hacked into the teleporter, went up with them (she is a Dalek how the hell would anyone know if she appeared in the room?) She uses her brains, plus superior Dalek tech to reverse engineer the nanos, and tracks down the Doctor.
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:09 p.m. CST
by CartoonScott
What would be cool is if the genius managed to transport out too and later on Doctor Who finds it (maybe the one we see in the desert in the cowboy ep). Then he somehow creates a Rimmer (Red Drawf) style hologram of Oswin
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:10 p.m. CST
by Hellstrom
I think each time Doctor Who appears it will be in a different font to coincide with the elements of each episode? We had Dalek bumps for this one, will we have Dinosaur hide for the next one??
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:12 p.m. CST
I'm already in show crush with Clara.
by Dataset
I'll gladly give three years of the Ponds to have three years with Clara Oswin. Great episode!
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:16 p.m. CST
Interested to see where they take Oswyn!
by hadrion
That was a damn good episode. The twist was not unexpected, but it had enough emotional resonance to work regardless.
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:26 p.m. CST
Loved that strong start of season 7! Very good! SPOILERS
by wtriker1701
Especially the part, where Amy explains to Rory, why she dumped the man who had waited for 2000 years, gave him up. Strong scene with two great actors. Besides: Will the Ponds be brought home at the end of every episode they're in from now on? I saw the Oswin twist coming early on. Reminded me of Silence In The Library - at first sight of Oswin. A very good episode.
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:43 p.m. CST
?spoiler? new companion
by speckled_hen_drinker
how's about..... i don't the moff tricking us into Oswin not bein a dalek if indeed it is this incarnation of Oswin that becomes the new companion.. so what if stays a dalek but uses a perception filter to outwardly appear as human..? 1. perception filters have been used before.. 2. perception was used in this ep so Amy saw some daleks as people... Whaddaya think? unsure what they will do should Oswin need to pick objects up through the series though....
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:49 p.m. CST
?spoiler? new companion
by speckled_hen_drinker
would make an interesting arc for Oswin as she battles against her dalek and human sides..?
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:49 p.m. CST
Things to Like
by Timmid
I'm not looking to bypass it I'm looking for reverse ---Dear !!
Sept. 1, 2012, 5:55 p.m. CST
Things to Like
by Seph_J
Rory: "I don't.... I don't know what you want." <p> Brilliant line delivery.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:10 p.m. CST
Me. Likey. Fun, action-packed, good tale, nice visuals. And...*SPOILAGE*
by obijuanmartinez
*The new companion is YUM. YUM. YUM...
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:15 p.m. CST
I wonder how many takes it took to say "Ood on the loo." Properly
by tangcameo
I wonder how many "Lewd on the ooh"s Rory said.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:15 p.m. CST
by 21stCenturyCat
I wonder if JLC was playing a different character and after appearing in episode 1, it was only later they decided to cast her as the new companion....
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:17 p.m. CST
Do the nanobots stop working off the planet?
by supertoyslast
I guess I missed a bit of exposition explaining why Amy will stop turning into a Dalek as soon as she's off the planet. I liked this episode a lot. Except for Oswyn. I'm not keen on having a companion who talks just like the Doctor. But in this week's Radio Times Moffat says he's a fan of The Newsroom. Maybe he's taken inspiration from Sorkin by having characters who speak fast and sound very much alike. And to Merrick and wtriker1701 - you're welcome. Pond Life was definitely more worth watching as a single piece.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:18 p.m. CST
21st century cat
by HornOrSilk
I highly doubt that. Remember we were told she would have elements of mystery with her. So of course we start with it.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:18 p.m. CST
Shuts eyes. Plugs ears. LA LA LA LA LA LA not listening not reading LA LA LA
by tangcameo
You're not going to ruin my Sunday morning. Doctor Who on iTunes. Treme on DVD. Scrambled tobasco eggs and a BIG mug of coffee. It's gonna be sweet!
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:22 p.m. CST
?spoiler? new companion
by speckled_hen_drinker
if she remains a dalek, that would keep some mystery and provide a change from the usual pretty girl fancies the doctor type of companion...... or do we just think my idea is kinda dumb..?
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:28 p.m. CST
speckled_hen *spoiler*
by Seph_J
...that's going to raise some eyebrows, when the TARDIS materialises...the doors open and out steps (and rolls) the Doctor and his companion...the Dalek. I love it.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:31 p.m. CST
Samuel L Jackson next week!
by Ilove Tacos
I've had enough! I want these motherfuckin' dinos off my motheruckin' spaceship!
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:40 p.m. CST
21st century cat
by meldy
Something tells me that the look Jenna gives straight down the lens, is a not so subtle wink that we should know to see her again.
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:40 p.m. CST
re seph_j
by speckled_hen_drinker
yeh i think that would be cool! a fast talking, flirtatious dalek with a sense of humour! but i was thinking the perception filter thing where everyone (and us) would see the pretty girl version.... though i have to admit the more i think about it, the more i think it is a dumb idea and i really shouldn't have said it out loud..! think i saw a clip where she gets out of a carriage in victorian times... if she remains a dalek, that carriage is gonna be weighted down, and i'm sure the horses would have kicked off or something...
Sept. 1, 2012, 6:54 p.m. CST
I dont watch emmerdale and so I had never really heard Of jenna louise coleman
by emeraldboy
I mean know of the show and the woolpack is legendary as was amos brierly. but I dont really watch it enough to know what character JLC played on it etc. or if she was any good on emmerdale but her introduction into dr who is interesting and she is very hot. I hope she is much better actress then Karen Gillian. all depends on the writing.
Sept. 1, 2012, 7:15 p.m. CST
by speckled_hen_drinker
speculation.... i just watched the ep again and there is defo something fishy at the end where oswin look to her side and at the camera and says 'remember'..... memory was used to bookend this ep the doctor tells amy near the start to make the daleks 'remember you'...... some memory related bit of magic brings oswin back..? though i don't like it and its been done before!
Sept. 1, 2012, 7:29 p.m. CST
Oh Moffat, Moffat, Moffat...
by Kevin Bolinger
you cheeky, cheeky devil you. Well played indeed!
Sept. 1, 2012, 7:55 p.m. CST
As my tradition, I rewatched the first ever Doctor Who episode I saw...
by Sequitur
Just finished Tom Baker and Robot. Thank you PBS in Chicago for getting me hooked. Thank you BBC America for being my new fix! Let's go!!!
Sept. 1, 2012, 7:57 p.m. CST
How in the bloody fucking hell did Moffat KEEP THAT A SECRET?!?!
by TheSeeker7
Okay granted, so I can see maybe that she wasn't exactly fully playing the character she'll eventually be when she properly becomes the Companion at Christmas, but lordy... how did it not leak AT ALL that Coleman would indeed be "introduced" in this episode?? In today's media world, that's the feat that impresses me the most.
Hi all - I've posted on AICN before but never Docback! This was a great episode - the only fault I had with it was that the 'insane' Daleks weren't very insane. They were just asleep and covered in cobwebs. It was more like wandering through an old people's home! Then again this is at heart a kids' show and a truly insane Dalek would make Hannibal Lector look like a cuddly and loveable mummy's boy by comparison, but I'd still like them to have been way more bugnuts and interesting. That said I actually stopped watching a lot of the last Who series because I just lost interest - Moff had his moments but he also presided over some less than thrilling episodes
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:02 p.m. CST
So this was a definite improvement over that.
by grev
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:10 p.m. CST
9:07 my time warner cable decides to reboot.....
by whatevillurks
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:17 p.m. CST
sorry... the "extra surprise spoiler in the end credits"? You guys are losing me with that one.
by TheSeeker7
Mind you I've never seen any of pre-2005 Who, so if it's something to do with the original run, I wouldn't get the reference. What exactly is it you guys are talking about?
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:39 p.m. CST
I'm very drunk...
by dj_bollocks
I bloody loved that... I think I'm in love with JLC... Did I mention I'm drunk... I love you... Zzzzzzzz....
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:48 p.m. CST
new companion got a nice set of knockers!
by HollywoodHellraiser
Havent felt that rise from a companion since Martha! Amy is a beautiful creature but she feels like a best friend little sister to me. Anyways the opener has been great and as usual the look on HD is awesome! I like the Daleks and feeling more sad for them here for some reason. Still got my "Intruder Alert, Intruder Alert". Oh those Daleks.
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:50 p.m. CST
Seven of Ninewyn?
by Perigee
Still watchin'... just wonderin'...
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:56 p.m. CST
That ending is..is brilliant!!!
by HollywoodHellraiser
Never, never saw that coming! This is a fantastic way to start off the new season of Doctor Who! Shit that was simply outta nowhere brilliant!
Sept. 1, 2012, 8:59 p.m. CST
SON OF A BITCH GODDAMMIT! They cut the credits in America!!!!!!!!
by Perigee
You guys better have been kidding about post-credit surprises...
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:12 p.m. CST
The nanocloud
by HornOrSilk
Well, that was really answered. The wristband protects one from it. Amy was only just in the beginning stages of it tampering with it. Whatever it did, it did, but it was stopped.
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:12 p.m. CST
Apart from that - Wow. NuWho is New.
by Perigee
Very Very Nice! The Doctor is showing a serious edge, and not so clowny; well done Matt and Moff for bringing a little gravitas to the role tonight. I'll miss clowny, but I am impressed. ...At least he wasn't hammering on one with a spanner this time... As a lot of people mentioned, the Daleks were pretty lazy, and, if filmed with less atmosphere, this could have been a not-so-great episode. Oswyn - Nice. Very nice, but a little too smug; I hope they loosen her up. "Remember." Stare. Damn. Fark you, Moff - sticking your tongue out at us like that. Now we have to figure out what he SPECIFICALLY DARED ~~US~~ to remember. Somabitch just threw down the gauntlet right in our faces. I Love that. So.. what, specifically, do you suppose, does he want us to remember when he smacks us with it in February? (Oh.. and yes. Sorry. Really a little Puss In Boots-like, wasn't she?)
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:14 p.m. CST
Just Finished
by GeptaOO1
Truly whoooooly awesome! Completely different than i expected. Beyond better than i expected. Doctor Who? I absolutely loved it! I thought we weren't going to meet the new companion till the x-mas special. Is Amy magically fixed and whole human again?, and/or will there be repercussions? I love the new Daleks! I love the new companion. I hate that she died the way she did, i can't wait to see how they timey wimey fix it. next week we should all try to chat live in AICN chat on Saturday!!!
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:19 p.m. CST
Oh, and if I have to say it... the new companion
by HornOrSilk
Reminded me of a female Captain Jack. Which makes me wonder. Remember when the Face of Boe was pregnant? What if....
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:26 p.m. CST
So...next week: Harry Potter Smackdown: Argus Filch vs. Arthur Weasley!
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:27 p.m. CST
by HughHoyland
I have to agree that the tone is a little different (at least IMO) than many of the previous episodes. It did feel more like "classic" Who so far as the story pretty much got to the point without to many side steps into soap opera. Yet, at the same time it did retain some pretty solid drama. Over all I really thought it rocked. And it will be interesting to see how the new (and hot) companion plays out. A Dalek companion?
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:27 p.m. CST
so what was the deal with the credits?
by Mark Leffler
BBC america did some hyper-fast scrolling - it was all mangled. What was the spoiler surprise?
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:39 p.m. CST
my guess...
by captain_kirk
Oswin programmed the nanobots with her memory and rode Amy to the TARDIS.
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:42 p.m. CST
Excellent start & a speculative spoiler
by 1TrueGod
Hats off to Steven Moffat, Caroline Skinner and the amazingly talented team responsible for this season. One, if not the best introduction of a companion I've witnessed. As referenced above, can't believe a secret of this magnitude was kept quiet, especially in light of last years leak. Liked JLC in her role on Being Human, LOVED her in Who. She's a bit mouthy, yet someone who I think can play on the same field as the doctor. Something we haven't seen in newWHo and I for one, am looking forward to her reintroduction. Question - was her intelligence a result of her conversion or was she really a genius? Speaking of which, and I have no examples to cite to validate this claim, but I wouldn't be surprised (well actually I would be) if JCL's Oswin happens to share a genetic 'companionship' with the Doctor. An idea Moffatt provided in episode 193 sparks my curiosity. Strong start to the new season. Pleasantly enjoyed the new title sequence - subtly nostalgic.
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:50 p.m. CST
Oswin unseen ( speculations)
by History101
The doctor does not know what she looks like Oswald oswin. Companion is Clara oswin. Moff said that the new companion would come of some place unexpected. We're there not rumors of a wonderful life type Christmas special? doctor helping oswin undalekify?
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:56 p.m. CST
Just watched it...
by Rebel Scumb
Was very surprised to see JLC show up! Good episode overall, I think the one weak thing was the asylum itself isn't really milked, it was basically just sleepy daleks, I presumed they'd be a bit more... well insane. Not a big deal though, episode worked overall, don't really know how they will bring JLC back but it will be interesting to see.
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:56 p.m. CST
Wasn't this episode supposed to be the one with the daleks from every era in it?
by Rebel Scumb
All I saw were the colorful moffat ones, and the RTD ones.
Sept. 1, 2012, 9:57 p.m. CST
I'm not sure where this Jenna Lousie Coleman thing is going, but it seems off to an interesting start!
by Mark Williams
Is Oswin Oswald supposed to be a relative from the future, or past, of the new companion? I'm assuming that, considering that we were already told the new companion would be named "Clara Oswin" and not "Oswin Oswald". Although it would make an interesting twist, I don't think this is leading to the Doctor having a Dalek as a companion, as some people have already speculated upon. And doing the whole "Clara is Oswin before she becomes a Dalek" storyline is way too similar to the River Song-reverse timeline concept, which doesn't seem like Moffat's style at all. Whatever Moffat has planned, it's going to be BIG, and a possible lead-in to the 50th Anniversary season. BRING IT ON!!!
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:08 p.m. CST
rebel scumb
by Kevin Bolinger
Look again, there were many different era Daleks, you can tell by the smaller dome lights, plus there was a Heavy Weapons Dalek from the McCoy era story Remembrance of the Daleks.
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:13 p.m. CST
Skaro Timeline...
by freakshowmonkey
Right. So, Skaro was destroyed when the Hand of Omega was used to blow up the Skarosian sun in the Seventh Doctor story "Rememberance of the Daleks". It shows up again for a brief moment at the beginning of the Eighth Doctor movie. Then, in "Evolution of the Daleks", it is mentioned that the Daleks wish to turn Earth into "A new Skaro", which would confirm the original is gone. So, how is Skaro still there for the Doctor to visit? I can accept a timey-wimey reasoning for it to still exist for the 8th Doctor...If it did still exist, wouldn't it be inside the Time Lock, like Gallifrey?
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:18 p.m. CST
Didn't do much for me (Spoilers)
by I am not a number
Guess I'm in the minority here. Started off well, but didn't really capitalize on a cool concept. Once they get to the planet, they seemed to just spend the episode marking time until we get to the big reveal at the end. Then again, it might just be because I was tired when I watched it. The end twist would have been more interesting to me if the Dalek had just been an actual regular Dalek that had gone insane and now thought it was human - would have fit in better with the whole "Asylum" and "insanity" aspect. Still, I didn't expect to see the next companion here, so hopefully this will pay off down the road (Maybe Oswin will get the nanobots in Amy to turn her into Oswin II - now that would be a unique way to switch companions). Though the continuity nerd in me wonders how a planet of Daleks exists if the Doctor allegedly destroyed them all in the Time War (the asylum doesn't seem to have been created after the war). I can forgive Skaro being back despite being blown up in REMEMBRANCE though -- I like the Daleks having their homeworld back.
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:19 p.m. CST
Skaro Timeline...
by freakshowmonkey
Sorry if this double posts, site is being weird. Ok, so Skaro was destroyed by the Hand of Omega in "Rememberance of the Daleks". It shows up briefly at the beginning of the 8th Doctor movie for the Master's trial scene. In "Evolution of the Daleks" it is stated that they wish to turn Earth into "a new Skaro", which would confirm that the planet was gone. So, how could the Doctor go there? I'm willing to accept timey-wimey shenanagans for the appearance in the TV Movie, but if the planet did still exist in the 11th Doctor's time wouldn't it be inside the Time Lock, like Gallifrey? I'm so confused... Other than all that, stellar episode. Interested to see how all of this plays out.
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:23 p.m. CST
Some problems tho gang....
by Abe
First off...loved it. LOVED. IT. but a few (sleepy Special Weapons aside) including... -Slv DESTROYED Skaro with the Hand of Omega (or rather inadvertently, Davros)...so how could the Doc be on it? -Spirodon, Vulcan, Exxillon ect? ...not lookin' like THAT they didn't "survive" the Doctor. but hell...that crap was dope. Also...note for the Doctor ...celebrate all you like they don't know you anymore...but Davros is not involved with the hive mind. Roh-roh. a continuity challenged CLASSIC! Great start. also glad they didn't dump the new Volvo Daleks. They seem to be playing the roles they were given. Nice.
Sept. 1, 2012, 10:30 p.m. CST
I loved the episode, but *SPOILERS*
by maelstrom_ZERO
. . .I feel terribly disappointed that none of the Daleks remember the Doctor anymore. It's like 50 years of an age-old vendetta purified and refined by countless hours of animosity between the Doctor and his oldest enemy. . .just kind of shoved to the side for the sake of making the future companion seem "cool." I was also a little miffed at how Jenna was just a giant deus ex machina due to how brilliant she was. I mean, she's a giant deus ex machina housed in one amazingly hot bod, but honestly. . .a regular human cracking through Dalek security? The same Dalek that downloaded the internet in a few seconds and cracked a billion combination code in even faster time? BUT, all my whining aside, the episode was brilliant. Loved how the Doctor fixed the Ponds' marriage, loved the subtle humor from all actors involved, loved seeing Skaro, loved seeing so many Daleks all over the place, and especially loved how the Doctor just exploded like 20 Daleks in one go. So much brilliant stuff in that episode. I desperately hope the rest of the season is this good. The twist at the end was sad and creepy too. So good.
Sept. 1, 2012, 11 p.m. CST
Defining Oswin
by History101
Anglo Saxon - god friend. dues ex machine indeed.
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:18 p.m. CST
Hold on...Skaro?
by vadakinX
Wasn't Skaro locked into the Time War along with Gallifrey? Am I completely wrong here? On the one hand it was great to see it, decimated as it was, but I thought Skaro was gone.
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:19 p.m. CST
Arthur Weasley AND Mr. Filch in the same episode next week!
by jimbojones123
That's kinda cool.
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:31 p.m. CST
If there's a version of Skaro that isn't time-locked...then could that mean the same for Gallifrey?
by vadakinX
Skaro was destroyed in Remembrance, but I'm pretty sure it existed during the Time War. Given that we've never really had a full explanation for what the Time War was (various conflicts in novels etc have been suggested and we have had clues throughout the series, but never the full picture), the clue could be in the name. If the war took place throughout time as well as space, then maybe the Time War caused the destruction of Skaro to be undone, assuming Remembrance wasn't a fixed point in time. If Skaro can be restored, then so can Gallifrey. Of course the last time we saw Gallifrey, Rassilon was crashing it into Earth. The Daleks could have done something similar. Rassilon locked on to the Master, maybe the Daleks locked on to Davros when he escaped the time lock. If Skaro is out there, it might explain how the Daleks keep coming back even after the Doctor defeats the last of them...seriously, how many "last of the Daleks" have shown up in the past few years?
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:45 p.m. CST
vaguely spoileryish speculation
by Kathryn Gail
--if you've been avoiding overspeculation as the season opens, you may want to avoid this train of thought, but-- Who's that driver? The one who 'acquired' Rory? Is he. . . Rory? Is he Rory (or a relative) after being sent back in time by weeping angels, aging, being taken over by Daleks. . . ? Peripheral characters are normally either pleasantly nondescript or quick-visual-recognition 'types;' why a Rory-nosed driver in an episode that keeps emphasizing Rory's nose if it's not a hint?
Sept. 1, 2012, 11:48 p.m. CST
guys help!!
by jason baum
so i might be a bit slow but can somebody please answer the following?!: -i keep hearing there was a nod/throwback to the tenth docotr (our beloved david tennant!) but what was it?! -what was the end credits spoiler i keep hearing about?! -why did oswin look at the camera?! -why did 11 chant "doctor who"?! dear god this episode was PERFECT! my most anticipated show delivered ten fold. i cannot express how much fun that just was! just bloody brilliant. can the rest of the season live up to this????? hell yes.
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:43 a.m. CST
That was seriously the most fun I've had watching Who in a LONG time!
by gotilk
We have had some fun episodes, but man... that was a serious win. That was so compelling, so moving, and made me so excited for what comes next. Slam dunk, Mr Moffatt. Slam dunk. I laughed, I cried, I kissed about 0.000004% of my cable bill goodbye. And it was worth every penny.
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:13 a.m. CST
by Tristan
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:33 a.m. CST
Amy and Rory
by bod33
So Amy is unable to have children which Rory desperately wants. Anyone think that Amy being infected with the nano-bots may repair any problem she has in conceiving. Maybe in the end thats why they both leave as companions because Amy and Rory are to become parents.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:52 a.m. CST
Sadly the more I think about this one, the more it falls apart for me... (spoilers)
by BloodiedFox
* The new daleks regarded the 9 +10 daleks as insufficiently daleky and destroyed them on sight before, now they're all hanging out in a parliament together? * As mentioned above, daleks having been willing to die to follow orders before, but now they're too scared to go on the planet themselves? *Why were they scared anyway? The imprisoned daleks seem to be comatose and practically out of power. *Why does a prison have the equipment to fully convert someone into a dalek? * Amy's infertile, so she deliberately estranges herself from Rory to 'set him free'. Not telling him that I can understand since she knows he'd insist on staying anyway, but has she not thought about surrogacy, adoption or maybe talking to that friend of theirs who has a machine that can go anywhere in time and space? *The Doctor's entire history with the daleks has been erased just so we could have a "Doctor who?" pun? ~facepalm~ (I'll retract that one if that's this season's arc words or something that actually goes somewhere) I'm trying not to dwell on these things but they're so glaring it's hard not too, which is a shame because there was a lot to like about the episode otherwise: great performances, some really creepy visuals with the dessicated zombies and Amy's hallucination, some funny lines and the exceedingly interesting set-up for the new companion.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:07 a.m. CST
Plot hole? What do you guys think about this
by ThrowMeTheIdol
Why did they not hear Oswin's voice as that of a Dalek?
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:39 a.m. CST
Erasing the Doctor from the Daleks does more than "Doctor Who?"
by HornOrSilk
It is a kind of reset with the Daleks so their interaction with the Doctor will be like it was early on in the show's history. And it protects the fact that the Doctor is supposed to be dead.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:45 a.m. CST
maelstrom_zero -- but she isn't that
by HornOrSilk
She isn't just a human who cracked into the Daleks; she is (somehow) a Dalek. This means it is her Dalek side which cracked into the Daleks. She was one with the hive, so to speak. And was able to influence it.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:47 a.m. CST
by HornOrSilk
Probably it was a new planet turned into Skaro?
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:48 a.m. CST
i am not a number -- Victory of the Daleks
by HornOrSilk
The Daleks were reborn.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:56 a.m. CST
@throwmetheidol - That's a damn good point
by Jeff Myers
Perhaps they'll address that flaw when the character returns as a permanent companion?
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:19 a.m. CST
But her voice was as a Dalek
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:22 a.m. CST
The real question
by HornOrSilk
If she was fully converted into a Dalek, who did it to her? Something tells me -- she isn't a Dalek. She is in a Dalek shell, which allowed her to connect to the Daleks, but... it was only a Dalek SUIT. A Doctor in a Doctor suit ended last season, remember... Is she a Time Agent with a mission?
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:24 a.m. CST
But one thing I would ask of the Moff
by HornOrSilk
Stop making everyone walking flirts...
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:31 a.m. CST
SPOILERS... It was... OK. Full of holes as already mentioned, but Moffat is routinely give a pass for such idiocy.
by Octavian
SPOILERS... I didn't quite understand why the Doctor feels so utterly terrified of the Daleks at one point. He has been kicking their backsides for thirty-three series, after all. Perhaps he had already forgotten. He was calm enough in front of ten thousand of them, but screaming like a five year old in front of half a dozen, none of whom are actually fully armed. That "open the door" moment was replicated almost exactly from Eccleston's "Dalek" episode, except back then you felt the ninth Doctor was recovering from Time War PTSD and that perhaps the material was in the hands of a superior actor. This time he came over as a pussy.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:42 a.m. CST
The Doctor and Daleks
by HornOrSilk
I think the Doctor understands when thousands of Daleks are wanting him to do something, he is unlikely to be killed. On the other hand, when it is a dozen of crazy Daleks, he doesn't know what they will do. But they WERE a threat. Remember. They could sucker him to death.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:42 a.m. CST
Hornosilk - Her voice was not as a Dalek through most of ep
by ThrowMeTheIdol
Or else why would they have been viewing her as human? If they were hearing her as a Dalek through the episode, wouldn't they have questioned her humanity? The clear implication is that they heard her as human for some unknown plotholey reason.
The Bronze Daleks were killed because they were holding impure mutants. The Bronze Daleks in the Parliament are evidently pure bloods. Coloured Daleks are an Officer class while the bronze are privates. Red seem to be NCOs.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:53 a.m. CST
throwmetheidol the point is, when the Doctor got to her
by HornOrSilk
Her voice was as a Dalek. However, the real question is how did she become as she is, as thinking she is human within the Dalek and how did that interior contact people outside of the Dalek shell? One solution is perception filters. However, I think it is a Dalek suit. I don't think she is a Dalek. I think she is using a teselecta to infiltrate the Daleks. And somehow that suit allowed her to actually enter the Dalek stream.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:54 a.m. CST
A very strong series opener just wish the Asylum itself had more to it, but really enjoyed it anyway.
by Bradly Durant
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:57 a.m. CST
Dalek Bingo
by meldy
The Radio Times put up a Dalek spotter sheet for the episode, apparently all of which should be in there somewhere. Apparently, the black one which is one of the ones Amy sees as a human lives in RTDs hallway. http://static.radiotimes.com/editorial/dalek-bingo-rev2.pdf
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:03 a.m. CST
If you want to see old Daleks
by HornOrSilk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p00xxlt9 You can see some of them with more clarity here...
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:05 a.m. CST
The Doctor on Skaro:
by buggerbugger
The Doctor can travel to Skaro after it was destroyed in 'Remembrance' in exactly the same way he's been travelling to Earth after it was destroyed in 'The Ark'. Why are people assuming that the Doctor has some weird sort of 'time-link' with Skaro? Now the matter of the Time Lock, that's another thing altogether. Skaro should be Time Locked. If the Time Lords and the Daleks are Time Locked because they stupidly got involved in a great big Time War, then **all** Time Lords and Daleks should be Time Locked. Otherwise, you'd have Time Lords and Daleks from the past time-travelling from before the Time War into periods after the Time War. This is the same problem the Eight Doctor Adventure novels had when they wiped out the Time Lords. Nobody ever wanted to explain it then, either.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:10 a.m. CST
by Darth Scourge
A big deal was made of the fact that the asylum would contain Daleks from the show's entire history, but in the end we hardly got a glimpse of most of them. But still a cool episode.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:14 a.m. CST
Full of holes, but still a fun episode.
by leroyspoboys
Bring on Oswin and dump the Ponds post haste.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:17 a.m. CST
bloody fox
by mulberry
"*Why were they scared anyway? The imprisoned daleks seem to be comatose and practically out of power." Suggestion was it was Oswin's hacking which rendered a lot of them inactive. Some of the rest were in a sort of deep trauma ward. Although they seemed to have more than a year of dust and decay on them. * As mentioned above, daleks having been willing to die to follow orders before, but now they're too scared to go on the planet themselves? Yes, that was a weak point, but suggestion was that they feared becoming like the corrupt, "broken" daleks, not death *The Doctor's entire history with the daleks has been erased just so we could have a "Doctor who?" pun? A big thing recently has been the idea of Doctor as a universal legend. Which means it's harder for him just to slip in and out of situations or operate in the background. Moff is trying to address that here and with the "death" last series. * Amy's infertile Adoption and Rory having his own baby not the same. Suggestion what was done to her was more than just a simple medical problem. Strictly speaking, they already have a baby (River). Amy feels unworthy of Rory in many ways. This is part of it.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:18 a.m. CST
by mulberry
I suppose a crux point would come if it came to a choice between preventing past Oswin going on that spaceship (which would prevent Rory/Amy reconciliation) and letting her go and die.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:48 a.m. CST
by mulberry
Her voice was Daleky at the end because it was a physical meeting. Prior to that it was a message being sent from her through the Dalek network. In her mind she was speaking into a microphone in a safe room. The message sent by her reflected this.
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:01 a.m. CST
possible spoiler
by GeptaOO1
I could be wrong.... but i swear in one of the trailers for season 7, there's a bit about doctor changing history.... could that be saving Oswyn?
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:10 a.m. CST
mavalcar -- I think the trailer
by HornOrSilk
Has the Doctor saying to River, "You just changed history." So River is the one who does it.
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:27 a.m. CST
So if Oswin was a Dalek... why did the daleks need the doctor to go into the asylum?
by Rebel Scumb
I was thinking about this last night, what was the threat/purpose for the mission if all the humans from the crash were already dead?
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:29 a.m. CST
darth devious
by Rebel Scumb
Cool, that's good! I'll have to look more closely next time around
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:31 a.m. CST
I am not a number
by Rebel Scumb
I tend to agree with your assessment. Maybe if it had just been an alien asylum, and the only dalek was Oswin than that would work differently. But for a dalek asylum, I was hoping something a bit more insane ala arkham asylum.
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:43 a.m. CST
Long shot prediction...
by RockLobster800
We've had predictions of Rory being The Master, talk of Oswin being a Dalek companion...but seeing as she's supposed to be a genius, presumably even before her Dalek conversion...wouldn't it be cool if Oswin was infact The Master in disguise? I mean, the potential is there: She's done things with Dalek technology that even The Doctor couldn't do (although that might be more to do with the Dalek in her, but still...), and we know that Time Lords can turn human with that whole watch thing. Now, why would a girl with that level of intelligence just be an entertainment manager on a cruise ship? And where would The Master go after the events of his last appearance? It seems like an ideal hiding place. And he mightn't even be using the watch, he could just be acting human, and used Carmen (which he might have known The Doctor played on) as the signal to lure him into "rescuing" Oswin/him from the Daleks (the details of which could be ironed out later in the series). And thats a twist that come ages down the line, say during the 50th anniversary, once Oswin has been around long enough to endear herself to the fans, making it even more epic and tragic? I mean, don't get me wrong, that's a HELL of a long shot (why would The Master leave recordings for him mum? Unless it is the watch/he's a full on method actor),but you never know...I can see see Coleman doing good malevolent acting for some reason
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:49 a.m. CST
The Ponds Leave, but River???
by donkey_lasher
Is this run going to see the Doctor say goodbye to River as she takes a job as an Archaeologist?
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:52 a.m. CST
Oswin = Susan Foreman?
by donkey_lasher
That would be a great 50th anniversary event.
Sept. 2, 2012, 7:36 a.m. CST
rebel scumb -- that's why I don't think she actually is as she appears
by HornOrSilk
She isn't a Dalek. This is another Moff bluff. It might be, as I said, she is a Time Agent in a Dalek suit. A smart one which is able to use it to actually, in all sense, interact with the Daleks. But I don't think she is a Dalek. I think she is playing it with the Doctor. Some theories I have: One, this is in the MIDDLE (not beginning or end) of her time with the Doctor, and she was sent there in a Dalek suit to do what she did by the Doctor. Two, one of her missions is to wipe out memories of the Doctor wherever he goes. Sort of a Men in Black. This is to protect his "death." Third, as I said above, she reminds me a lot of Captain Jack. I still wonder if she might be related to him (and why he would be back this season). I even wonder if she might not be the Face of Boe's child. Fourth, and last, we might see more of her this season than we thought we would. Especially if she is there to be a Men in Black type figure.
Sept. 2, 2012, 7:47 a.m. CST
Susan Foreman means next to nothing these days
by SgtHowie
The character was in the show for only a year in 1963-64 (and hardly mentioned since). 99.99% of today's BBC1 audience would have absolutely NO idea who she was, so using her as some kind of special event in the series would be pointless. The collective reaction would be "Huh? Who?"
Sept. 2, 2012, 7:51 a.m. CST
Is it just me or . .
by Lazerman21
Does each season fo DOCTOR WHO get better and better! With last seasons ender, and the POND LIFE webisodes bridging to this episode, they sure know how to keep it FRESH! And what a BRILLIANT ending! I will be reading this talkback and participating more,Thanks for hosting it! DOCTOR WHO? :P
Sept. 2, 2012, 7:54 a.m. CST
So what was the spoiler in the end credits? The copy I have cuts off after Matt Smiths name
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 2, 2012, 7:59 a.m. CST
re: Oswin not having a dalek voice earlier
by Rebel Scumb
I think this is a really good point. Do the Daleks have the ability to mimic human voices? If not, then I don't see how she could have sounded normal until the doctor saw her. Wouldn't the nanocloud be sort of a useful super weapon for the daleks to use on other planets, no need to even attack just let the cloud convert everyone undetected
Sept. 2, 2012, 8 a.m. CST
Also, Oswin was mega hot
by Rebel Scumb
and very charming performance to. I am super impressed the production managed to keep it underwraps that she was introduced last night. Since they were, it's a shame they announced her as the new companion at all, would have been one helluva surprise when she shows up again!
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:20 a.m. CST
I watched it again this morning, I'm more confused than before about the set up of this episode...
by Rebel Scumb
Why do the do the daleks need the doctor to go to the asylum? The doctor says the starliner crashed, and because of this the insane daleks will be able to escape. How? The dalek parliament can't destroy the planet because of the forcefield, but the forcefield can only be shut off from on the planet itself. If this is true, couldn't the daleks have escaped whenever they wanted by turning off the forcefield.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:24 a.m. CST
@horn - nice HAT + Giant Dalek + Nice Chumblies
by veteran_of_mu
Interesting idea that Oswin is systematically removing memories of the Doctor ... I enjoyed the episode but agree the premise was veiled. Since when do Daleks convert humans into Daleks? Last time we saw them, the iDaleks blew a bunch of other Daleks into dust just for being contaminated by human DNA. Now they're going around converting humans into Daleks because Daleks need geniuses? I don't think so. Daleks have Davros ... I loved the bit where Amy saw the Daleks as humans and really expected that would tie into Oswin as a mad Dalek seeing itself as a human. But then there's the whole business with the Alaska to disabuse us of that. And Oswin as entertainment director on a starliner that happened to crash into the asylum ... no, just really, no. Those are blatant lies. The Moff is playing us as per usual. I think the Doc was supposed to "save the Daleks" from being reprogrammed by Oswin. That was what really scared them. But then ... make them remember you. Remember. Timey wimey stuff is going on. Insufficient data to speculate further on it. As for JLC - heck, let's just be really straight about this. We'd all hit that. Made Gillan look extremely plain by comparison. I love Alex Kingston's look but really dread seeing the two of them in the same scene - Kingston would look like a man. Unless perhaps the scene has Kingston regen into JLC ...
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:33 a.m. CST
Superb episode was asylum of the daleks
by emeraldboy
and it did get me to think about amy pond. I started to think about the beast below and How amy couldnt remember the daleks and the dr was shocked abt that and last years episode where she didnt know where she was and the dr promised to find her and he turned up with rory. she had black masscara. and was very agressive and angry. and was battlehard. In a town called Mercy she looks at the dr and says clearly you have been having stupid lessons since I saw you last and again she looks very bitter and is aggressive. and snaps at that dr when he says has someone been looking at my christmas card list. at the start of asylum amy and rory are getting divorced and have separated. there was that stuff about teleportation. she has become selfish. and ego driven. note the poster of her in the cybermen episode from last year. and the dr looks abit teary eyed in that. there is something very off about amy pond. and I mean agressive and bitter amy. that I cant quite put my finger. because he killed the amy clone and her clone baby died in a good man goes to war. is Clara Oswin. madam Kavorian? but at a younger age.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:45 a.m. CST
Must be in the minority then...
by TheFerretLives
that didn't really like this episode and I'm beginning to get a little jaded already with "Moffisms", he's already beginning to repeat himself which is worrying - something slowly happening to Amy? Amy having to remember something? Didn't like the human dalek thing, thought it as laughable as the man eating wheelie bin way back in the very first episode of the RTD era. Why would they have eye stalks? My son and his mum were annoyed by Oswin and although I thought she was okay sometimes she was a bit annoying, hope she is slightly different when she is "remembered". Oh and speaking of Oswin that was so obvious and a let down as a reveal to be honest, another trait of Moff's. Maybe I've been put off by the second series of Sherlock but I'm beginning to think that Moff is beginning to believe his own hype here and is happy to dazzle us with a bit of whiz bang and oh so clever plotting that is starting to almost become a parody of itself. It isn't just me though as both my 11 year old son, a massive fan of Doctor Who and his mum were both disappointed with this episode. Oh and is it just me or does anyone else flinch whenever someone says "Doctor Who"? I thought it was an unwritten untouchable that no one actually said that in the show and when I heard it at the end of last season I did a mammoth facepalm now at the end of this episode it was repeated so many times I thought I was going to have a seizure!
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:47 a.m. CST
moffat and his team realised a long time ago...
by emeraldboy
that karen gillian really was out of her depth. she could pull off play Jean Shrimpton model playing another model. they needed to cast someone who can act and had been around on tv for a while. Jenna Louise certainly looks fucking hot but she can act. and you need someone to go toe to toe with Matt smith. She made an immediate impact. and very soon I think we will all be saying Karen who?
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:49 a.m. CST
Not all plot holes are created equal
by Murphy7
Overall I liked the episode, but did think it a bit weak in the middle - which makes me very happy this wasn't a two parter to open the season. Anyway, the holes as mentioned: Re: Oswyn sounds human or Dalek - thinking more simply, if she's able to broadcast Carmen, she should be able to project herself though the commucation streams to sound as she would like, and as others have pointed out, that falls apart when the Doctor is in the same room. Re: Doctor afrain/unafraid - when he sees all the Daleks, it could be a matter of accepting that the gig is up and trying to meet his death bravely, versus being in a situation where there is less thin chance of survival and being afraid that you will miss it. Earlier on - no hope, no fear. Later, with hope for a future, a fear of losing it. Re: Force field and the Asylum. Stretching in a bit, I think rather than an asylum, this was a Dalek Sanitarium. All sorts were sent to a sanitarium, for example, people contending with TB. The Daleks have always been ones for purity, and this was a place to stash the irredeemably contaminated, it gets a bit better. They couldn't have contact with a Dalek down there for fear of becoming contaminated themselves. It's thin, but consistent. To reopen the hole - if something so large as a cruise liner can crash there, why not load a ship with some truly rediculous explosives and end the problem that way, Daleks? I have no idea how Skaro survived for the eleventh Doctor to visit it, but if he knew damn well he was walking into a trap, the opportunity to see how Skaro was still around might have been an appropriate lure.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:53 a.m. CST
Daleks do use humans and other races from time to time,but some possible explanations for qs people have asked
by HornOrSilk
1. The ship crashing into the planet has created a hole in the field. The Daleks will be able to get out. Some Daleks could get in if they wanted. But otherwise, the planet is still protected so the Daleks can't just turn it off. Now this raises some questions: How do they send Daleks there in the first place? My guess is they don't. They shipped one group together at one time. Then kept them trapped there. This is a group they don't want out, but a group they kind-of revere. They are pure Daleks, so full of hate, they hate other Daleks as well. There is the possibility they are there to be used as a last-resort weapon if the Daleks fall. BUT... this idea that crazy Daleks somehow attract respect from Daleks was shown during the 10th Doctor's era with Davros and the "prophetic-crazy" Dalek. So there is something there in the series which shows Daleks protect pure Daleks this way. Now, they made it so that the shield can't be turned off from the outside but only by the inside. This might be some sort of test: if a Dalek figures out how to get out, they are seen as "saved," and can be released? I think there is more that needs to be said here. 2. Daleks normally hate other races, but they have no problems using them until their use is no longer needed. They like only pure Daleks, but hybrid Daleks, Robo-men, Ogrons and the like can be useful and so will have temporary allowances given to them. Daleks don't want to convert everyone to a Dalek-hybrid because it still is a challenge to their own identity as to what they are to do with them, to determine when their use is done. So they don't normally do this. Plus, as was said in this episode, the nanocloud was seen as a kind of protection, as a kind of defensive weapon. This gives the converted Daleks some use, but that is the limit the Daleks are willing to do with conversion of humans into Daleks unless desperate measures are needed. 3. Throughout the episode, I noticed the way Oswin was looking out into the world as as if using a Dalek lens. This means things were set up throughout to lead to that ending. Which is also why I don't think she is a Dalek. The Moff is all about the prestige. I still say she is on a mission; she might herself be a bit confused by the nanocloud as to who she is, by the end, even if she is not fully converted to a Dalek -- but in the end, I think she is someone shrunk in size in a Dalek suit. 4. And the ship had all the milk she needed.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST
theferretlives -- wrong, the question "Doctor Who" is a long term question on the show, beginning with the first story!
by HornOrSilk
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_%22Doctor_Who%3F%22_running_joke Should help... But I think the Moff is picking up on Silver Nemesis and is working on that iteration of the question... that's just me.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:59 a.m. CST
Nice call back to Genesis of the Daleks
by Murphy7
Bracelets, TRANSMAT with the companions down to planet, help destroy the Daleks there. The Kaleds did not begin as the creepy monocular beasties we all know and loathe. Although, part of me wonders if the decision to wipe the memory of the Doctor from the Dalek database is an attempt to soften the Doctor/Dalek interaction in the NuWho. Eccleston's interaction with the Daleks was fantastic, but very very dark. There have definitely been dark moments aplenty for the Doctor in NuWho, but it seems to me that there has been an effort to make them fewer and further between.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:04 a.m. CST
murphy7 I think it was done for two reasons
by HornOrSilk
1) To help explain why the Doctor is still believed to be dead. 2) To change the interaction of the Doctor with the Daleks when they show up again.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:04 a.m. CST
Eggs. Stir. Milk. Bake! = reason Daleks were scared
by Alientoast
Someone else pointed this out on another forum, but the souffle recipe/obsessive baking of it was Oswin taking the Dalek's main order, Exterminate, and altering it. Although she was linked into their hive mind, she was able to resist it and could possibly make alterations to it. As was observed, the Daleks in the asylum weren't much of a threat...they were afraid of the power Oswin had over them, and as the erasure of the Doctor from their collective memory proved, the fears were well founded. She could have literally rewritten the Dalek race into whatever she chose.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:07 a.m. CST
Watcher of doctor who for over 40yrs
by migmog
I must say i do not understand the Pond hatred. I think it is largely unfounded and more speaks generic issues between 'geeks' and 'girls' in general. I think Amy has been a good companion and their storyline have helped given us a deeper emotional context to the Doctor it is a shame that Karen Gillan is not just becoming the companion now as I feel physically she has matured into womanhood and imho is all the better for it. I loved this episode. It kept me gripped and intrigued in terms of plot and the inevitable questions the holes it has left us. it makes me proud to be British that I can comment positively on a website hailing from Texas that Dr who is one of our finest exports. The elements in this episode are heralding another great season We are all fortunate to live in a time where a public funded show like this has had a tremendous budget and creative overhaul so let's not get too picky and savour this moment.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:10 a.m. CST
Humans turning into Daleks
by meldy
My theory is that the nano-cloud dalek converter was a dalek invention, that the daleks decided was probably a mistake for it's affect of diluting their purity. Hence the nano-cloud was also banished to the asylum. Again, they can admire it's beauty, but keep it from further affecting their genetic purity. The human-daleks outside the asylum were used merely to collect the Doctor, Amy and Rory - a necessary evil for the daleks. What's to bet the redhead was destroyed soon after the Docotr was wiped from their collective memories...
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:16 a.m. CST
Eggs... Stir... Milk... Eat...
by meldy
It's a basic soufflé recipe certainly...
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST
OMG! I think someone on the DW crew is a MAJOR Tori Amos fan! :-)
by tangcameo
Short. Straight red hair. Even the face! I had a Torigasm in the first tenth-of-a-second before I realized it wasn't her.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:48 a.m. CST
I believe in the saying, that if you can't say *anything* nice, then say nothing at all...
by V'Shael
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST
by Octavian
I've been saying for some time Moffat has fallen in love with himself, much to the chagrin of many here, for whom he can do no wrong. Doctor Who Confidential changed to Doctor Who Reverential a couple of series back and whenever Moffat showed up it was almost unbearable. The Emperor's new clothes had nothing on some of those DWC episodes. Between Moffat himself and the smoke blown up his arse by his colleagues it turned into a love-in in almost precise inverse relation to what was actually being broadcast. Thank God it was pulled. I'm sorry to relate that "exterminate" as a pun on a souffle recipe is not all that clever. In fact, it is embarrassing. I can imagine Moff in first class out of Paddington staring at the part of his notebook with words directly related to canon and breaking them down syllable by syllable until something jumps out at him. "Tar Diss" - The Tardis stops obeying the Doctor. "'Tard Dies" - The Tardis loses its mind and the Doctor has to save it. "Tardies" - Everytime he wants to go somewhere the Tardis gets him there too late to save the day. That's how clever it is. Not at all. When you watch a major US drama a season arc starts to resolve itself over the last three or so episodes leaving the best to blow you away in the last few minutes of the finale and have you begging for next time. That doesn't happen on Who. It is too often a series long set of half references often resolved with a stunning lack of care or logic in the last ten minutes. It is almost as if... No, surely not... Rather than being the product of a genius it is all thrown together in a rather haphazard manner. Not what we expect from a BBC show of this importance. Moffat should go.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10 a.m. CST
@v'shael You are Kim Jong Un and I claim my five pounds.
by Octavian
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:02 a.m. CST
I am prepared to hate Karen Gillan's replacement...
by Bill Clay
But then, I swore to hate David Tennant's replacement also. And that plan fell apart half-way through Matt Smith's first episode. This time I must stay strong!
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:04 a.m. CST
Return of the Valeyard
by LionelRL
The voice in the Tardis during the season 5 finale I suspect is the Valeyard. When the Alliance capture the Doctor, the Daleks proclaim that 'only the Doctor can control the Tardis'. I reckon this foreshadows the appearance of the Valeyard, maybe with Omega in tow.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:11 a.m. CST
RE: why Oswin sounded human
by Type 40
It was my assumption that the reason Oswin sounded human earlier on in the episode, was because she was heard through the asylum's com system & not in person & was using a filter subconsciously. Later when the Doctor saw her in real life, he heard her speak through the dalek shell. That's what I thought anyway.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:14 a.m. CST
Oswin can do things that the Doctor thinks impossible?
by tangcameo
The writer's better cut that out or DW's going to get very boring suffering from deus ex machina syndrome. Cybermen invasion? Oswin taps a few keys and all their heads blow up. Zzzzzzzzz.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:24 a.m. CST
Gillan is a pretty good actress. Seems th new one is more adept though.
by Octavian
Production started on this series before the new companion got the gig, didn't it? The official announcement of JLC taking over was on March 21st. How do we know her debut last night was not because of Moffat legerdemain but because she had not been given the job at the time of filming AOTD? Perhaps she impressed during production.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:29 a.m. CST
octavian -- more likely
by HornOrSilk
They didn't announce her because they wanted it to be a surprise. So when everyone thought the new companion was to be found later, people would not pick up on her being there. It was clearly the plan to have her as the companion.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:34 a.m. CST
btw Why did the photog's assistant seem familiar?
by tangcameo
When Amy is posing on the stairs (I hate that they turned her into a fashion model btw) and the woman to the right of the photographer (our right, not his) looks awfully familiar. I think she was in another episode. Or is that the ghost girl from Being Human?
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:41 a.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
No I think thats a perfectly valid critique. As I've said before, I feel that the Moffat episodes from the RTD series are all brilliant, among the very best TV episodes I've ever seen, not just doctor who, but TELEVISION in general. But Moffat on his own I would describe as 'clever' and to me cleverness sometimes is a snake eatting its own tail. The main issue I've had with most of seasons 5-7, and now 7, is the pacing. The setups/premises are so jampacked that by the time the story really starts, its almost time to start wrapping it up, and thus the payoffs never really (in my opinion) have the weight of their setups Too many layers of complication early on to fit into the format of a single TV episode. perhaps 2 parters are the way to go. With last nights episode, Asylum, I would personally have been fine with them nixing all the human/zombie daleks (other than the Oswin stuff), skipped the montage of doctor/amy/rory getting captured, and dropped the whole amy/rory divorce story. Just start with the trio captured and sent to the planet, and focus on milking the dalek asylum itelf, which is a wonderful premise and did have some great bits like the 'eggs... eggs...' bit, and Amy seeing the ghostly human versions of the daleks. It just feels like the stories have MIDDLES to them, they feel to me like like 70% set up, 20% meat/middle, 10% climax. I personally prefer something more of a 15% / 65% / 20% A good example is the agatha christie episode of the RTD 4 season. That episode gets where's its going, sets up its premise and feels like a complete story within 44 minutes. Where as if you spent 25 minutes just getting the doctor and donna to the old british mansion and setting up that it was a murder mystery whodunnit with agatha christie, its hard to fit the investigation itself, along with some good red herrings, tracking of clues, interrogations, further murders, character development etc and then still have a great climax at the end. Anyways, I don't mean to complain, those are just my thoughts.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:41 a.m. CST
Oswin can do things that the Doctor thinks impossible?
by mulberry
Don't know. She's been stuck for a year in a self-created virtual reality where she's trying to come to terms with being integrated into the Dalek cybernetic network. She claimed she had "hacked" into it. She was already in it: wired in. So hard to tell how extensive her actual abilities are. Presumably some rooting in reality, but hard to tell.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:43 a.m. CST
octavian / hornorsolk
by Merrick
Horn is correct. 'Twas definitely an orchestrated effort - requests/warnings from network accompanying screenings, etc. What's more amazing than the production keeping JLC's debut on the show out of the press is that Asylum was seen by a large number of folks in advance via various public screenings. Kudos to the masses for caring & respecting enough not to leak!
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:44 a.m. CST
Now we'll get a Walking Dead episode where blue eyestalks start popping out of zombie heads
by tangcameo
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:48 a.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
I agree, never understood the Pond hate. The only thing I ever had trouble getting use to is I just didn't think that Gillan and Darvill had enough chemistry in the early parts of season 5 to sell that these 2 characters were in love. But it worked well by the end, and that notion actually has been used as a plot point so it all worked out ok.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:50 a.m. CST
Now THAT was clever !
by Dalius
When Ecclestone became Tennant, many were saying he wouldn't be as good. So RTD pulled the brilliant trick in the first Christmas special of keeping Tennant out of action for most of the episode. So that by the time the sh*t has hit the fan, you're screaming for the Doctor to appear, whatever he looks like. And now they've pulled a similarly great trick for JLC. Amy is a long-running and beloved companion, and anyone following her has got the challenge of gaining public acceptance. But by introducing JLC as the sort of character that you fall in love with in advance, we'll be rooting for her as soon as she appears, rather than deciding whether we like her or not. Great job guys. (p.s. Don't think we've had a genius female companion since Zoe, which is interesting since Matt Smith's doctor is probably closest to the 2nd doctor in character and temperament.)
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:50 a.m. CST
And the best line ........ I'm looking for reverse !!!
by Dalius
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:51 a.m. CST
Longer set up because....
by SgtHowie
the series has been away for a LONG time. Since Christmas Day in fact. Longest gap ever in the NuWho era isn't it? Taking a little longer to show where Amy and Rory are at these days would be reasonable, especially considering that this mini season is going to be their finale. The episode was extended by 5 minutes to accommodate that extra set up too, so the pacing may be atypical of how Series 7 develops.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:53 a.m. CST
Homage to Richard Matison?
by ifrclone
Is it just me or was this entire episode a nice homage to Matison's " I am Legend"? Boarded doors, the " They come at night" line, playing Carmen to block out the noise....and then the ending when she realizes she is in fact a monster?
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:54 a.m. CST
octavian, re JLC's introduction
by Rebel Scumb
Everyone should keep in mind, JLC at no point shares the screen with any of the main cast in this episode, they could easily have shot her scenes months after the rest of the episode, in just a day or two, and edited them in. Because this episode WAS shot well before she was cast.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:56 a.m. CST
Wheee! Fun HAT!
by Perigee
Oswyn wasn't a Dalek. Oswyn wasn't In a Dalek. Oswyn was remote controlling the Dalek. That would explain the normal voice except when she is talking through the Dalek's external speakers. Doesn't explain boarding up the door, though... ...Really. BOARDING up a spaceship door? With Boards? And Nails? Where's they get that tub - Ikea?
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:56 a.m. CST
My guess on the Coleman twist....
by brechtsky
Sorry if this has been covered, I'm posting my ideas before reading everyone else's... I think her character has to be related to the other woman from the Dalek ship, and who tricked the Doctor in the first scene... Moffat gave two deliberate moments in the episode where her daughter was mentioned, acknowledged as real, and having been captured by the daleks.... So I think that's Coleman, somehow, some way... Also, not saying this is likely, but they even could have met in her past... she could have "forgotten" the doctor upon having her memories erased by the daleks, thus why she didn't remember him in the episode last night...
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:58 a.m. CST
Merrick, re: JLC in this ep secret = timey wimey of spoilers
by Rebel Scumb
If you think about it, this is sort of the River Song effect on a spoiler. BBC has made no secret that the ponds are departing and JLC is taking over, but in the manner you described above, all privy to her appearance in Asylum kept it a secret. But that's reversed from how a spoiler would normally work. Because normally she would be in this episode, we might know in advance, or might not. either way she's just a one-off guest star who dies. and then the BIG game changers are Ponds depart, and JLC comes back as new companion. The cause / effect are sort of reversed. The only reason JLC's appearance in this episode was cool to have a surprise is because we are privy to future events. Very whovian way of doing it!
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:58 a.m. CST
Now that I've watched it sober...
by dj_bollocks
It is offensive to us to extinguish such divine hatred...
Sept. 2, 2012, 11 a.m. CST
Good point Dalius
by Rebel Scumb
They also were clever with Donna Noble in the same way. Introduce her, but make you loath her and worried she is Rose's replacement, Then you breath a sigh of relief when she isn't. Martha comes along, seems way better than Donna, and turns out to be great. The Donna comes back! But she's become awesome as a result of her earlier run in with the doctor. And then the fate they give her at the end of season 4... heartbreaking. Worse than any death a character has ever had. reduces me to tears every time.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:03 a.m. CST
perigee, but don't forget she believes she is the dalek
by Rebel Scumb
they showed those disturbing images from her POV of her head locked inside a dalek internal workings
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:04 a.m. CST
JLC casting and Dalek filming WERE concurrent
by SgtHowie
Casting announced 21 March, Daleks episode filmed late March to early April, so the two are very much connected.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:05 a.m. CST
Aside from JLC's charms and great intro, I thought the best part of this episode was The Doctor talking to the Dalek PM
by Rebel Scumb
such exquisette hatred...
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST
Episode of this run I'm most intrigued by: The Power of 3
by Rebel Scumb
It's the only one I know absolutely ZIP about, and it has an intriguing title. All the others I at least have some inclincation of the basic premise, if nothing else from the titles and trailer images.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:10 a.m. CST
rebel scumb - arg. I forgot to remember that. Fun HAT while it lasted...
by Perigee
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST
Genius female companions since Zoe
by SgtHowie
Romana would easily outsmart Zoe, maybe Nyssa would too?
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST
Just no deus ex machina companion
by tangcameo
Last time they tried it, it came with a price and Donna Noble got her mind wiped.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:12 a.m. CST
hornorsilk you still miss the point
by ThrowMeTheIdol
No offense, really but yeah. My point is that Amy Rory and the Doctor heard her talking to them. What was the sound of the voice they heard? Was it a human voice or not? If not then why did they neither mention this or question this.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:12 a.m. CST
Re power of three
by brechtsky
I also know nothing, but my guess is dream lord from Amy's choice... There has always been the promise of his return, it would definiely have more power if the ponds were there for it, and power of three sounds like an applicable, mind-screwing title .... But that's just my hope/guess.... Also based on zero knowledge
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:14 a.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
well it doesn't mean your theory is wrong, just a lot of factors that have to be worked in but then hey, while everyone was debating all sorts of complex solutions for how the doctor would survive lake silencio, turns out the main rosetta stone was 'the doctor lies' so who knows.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:22 a.m. CST
Also re power of 3
by brechtsky
Its placement would be a good time for introspection that makes the doctor uneasy... The power of three people, his need for companions, just as they are fated to leave him... Very Who to do something like that.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:34 a.m. CST
Could be a cool 'calm before the storm' type episode ala The Lodger & Closing Time
by Rebel Scumb
I know a lot of people hate the 2 episodes I just mentioned, but I quite like both of them, I actually think Closing Time is the 3rd strongest episode of series 6.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:41 a.m. CST
Best episode of Who in years! Fellt a little like an old timey-whimey kinda episode
by Michael Lunney
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:44 a.m. CST
someone or somebody is sharing tech between the daleks and the cybermen
by emeraldboy
that is how they are able to perfect the idea of turning daleks in to humans.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:45 a.m. CST
Spoiler*** One thing that bugged me...
by Lothos_Zero
Considering the Ponds had reached the divorce phase of their marriage... It seems their relationship was either fixed WAY to easily or fell apart way too easily. Maybe this strife will pay off in some way in the future but at this point it was kind of "why?" Why catastophically break them up then reset it at episode end... It didn't really add to the episode I thought. My opinion.
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST
good point lothos
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:21 p.m. CST
Oswin/ The Master
by RockLobster800
We've had predictions of Rory being The Master, talk of Oswin being a Dalek companion...but seeing as she's supposed to be a genius, presumably even before her Dalek conversion...wouldn't it be cool if Oswin was infact The Master in disguise? I mean, the potential is there: She's done things with Dalek technology that even The Doctor couldn't do (although that might be more to do with the Dalek in her, but still...), and we know that Time Lords can turn human with that whole watch thing. Now, why would a girl with that level of intelligence just be an entertainment manager on a cruise ship? And where would The Master go after the events of his last appearance? It seems like an ideal hiding place. And he mightn't even be using the watch, he could just be acting human, and used Carmen (which he might have known The Doctor played on) as the signal to lure him into "rescuing" Oswin/him from the Daleks (the details of which could be ironed out later in the series). And thats a twist that come ages down the line, say during the 50th anniversary, once Oswin has been around long enough to endear herself to the fans, making it even more epic and tragic? I mean, don't get me wrong, that's a HELL of a long shot (why would The Master leave recordings for him mum? Unless it is the watch/he's a full on method actor),but you never know...I can see see Coleman doing good malevolent acting for some reason
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST
Doctor hates the Daleks so much...
by ManEatingFish
That he is prepared to break the time rules and interfere with O's timeline and save her before she becomes a Dalek, which will have massive repercussions throughout
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:37 p.m. CST
Oswin - speculation
by TodayzSpecial
Oswin ... surely a variation of OZ. Someone who accidentally enters a world and takes it over. Sounds like what Oswin Oswald just did to the Daleks. The name Clara pops up in Wizard of Oz history as the actress who played Auntie Em (Clara Blandick). Auntie Em was separated from Dorothy just like Darla was separated from Hannah in the beginning of the story. Could there be a big Wizard of Oz-like Arc this year?
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST
Pariliament music - OZ like
by TodayzSpecial
Also, notice how the music when they go to the parliament of the Dalek's sounds like the Wicked Witch of the West's theme.
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST
by TheFerretLives
Yes I know the Doctor himself asks it as he is called "Dr Foreman" as Susan introduces him as her grandfather but it was a throwaway line and everyone just accepted that it was the name of the show and apart from the odd joke over the years it has hardly been used in the show. I think it should've been left like that. It seems to me like Luke Skywalker turning up at Jabba's Palace humming the theme tune. And how many times do they use the phrase Star Trek on Star Trek apart from a few obvious in joke comments like James Cromwell's in First Contact? It seemed to me to be an unwritten rule and even RTD with his excesses and playing with the mythos stayed clear of it.
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:41 p.m. CST
Well I guess I'm just a great big idiot then, because I absolutely did not see the "she's actually a Dalek" twist coming
by TheSeeker7
And good lord, I've been saying for so long now that while Rose was still probably overall my favorite and best companion, but Amy was the sexiest and one I most wanted to find in my bed. and sure we'd all seen some pics when JLC was first case, but holy mother of god, she's adorable to the nth degree, and exactly my type. I'm already well past in love lol<br> <br> btw, I think I'd count myself overall a little disappointed by the "Pond Life" series. For one thing, it feels like they promoted it incorrectly on at least two counts: I didn't expect "shorts" to literally be THAT short, with one of them being not even a full minute long, but also that to shine some light on their non-Doctor'd life, meanwhile he pretty much shows up in I think all of them anyway. Secondly, there's a massive shift between 4 and 5 to be able to claim there's a narrative dove tail into the series 7 premiere. In each of the first 4 mini-sodes all appears perfectly well and lovely in the Pond household, then suddenly in the last one we get a tiny glimpse of obviously a big fight.<br> <br> I mean, it was cool to have them as they were better than nothing, it's the first time they've ever done that in NuWho (not counting the little online prequels they sometimes did for eps last year), but they seemed to oversell it, I was expecting more.
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:44 p.m. CST
also, unless I've missed it, I still don't think anyone's elaborated on what the further surprise/spoiler from the end credits was supposed to be. Granted, my file cut off not long into them
by TheSeeker7
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:45 p.m. CST
theferretlives -- again, the list shows it is a consistent thing
by HornOrSilk
But Silver Nemesis really is the foundation for the Moff here, I believe. Classical Who.
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST
Power of Three (possible spoilers)
by HornOrSilk
From what I understand of this: Return of UNIT Alien invasion story It's an Amy/Rory centered story where it is done in "their eyes" as a way to honor them before the last story (whatever that means)
Sept. 2, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST
by Abe
I agree with the points you made. Seem to know a lot about Doctor Who's history you do. Fine points.
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:02 p.m. CST
Hello Strangers!
by Pogue__Mahone
It's sad that on a show that deals with 'time' I have so very little of it free in my own life. I've VERY often been reading the always awesome Docback but haven't actively participated in a while. I promise to do my best to rectify that! That reveal! I wish I could have had a camera in my living room when my friends and I saw JLC on screen. The collective yell and 'WHA!?' probably had the neighbours wondering what was going on! I JUST missed out on seeing this episode last week at a special screening at FanExpo in Toronto but I'm glad - in retrospect - that I got to share that WTF moment with my friends instead. Amazing... and THANK YOU to everyone who kept the internet spoiler free. That NEVER happens! A pretty solid episode with some great moments although I wrote early on in the episode "She's really a Dalek' on a piece of paper for my friends to read upon the episode's conclusion. My friends HATE when I give 'theories' while watching a show because 9 out of 10 times I'm correct. Last night was no exception. Still awesome! And while I'm excited for JLC's return... am I the only one who thinks that the thing I'll miss most is Rory? He's been my favourite companion in YEARS. Between his clumsy humour to his fierce acts of bravery and devotion he's been a very real character to me. I'll be sad to see Arthur go. Anyway... glad to be back! Geronimo!
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST
no suprise in the end credits
by TodayzSpecial
I didn't see anything after the end credits as far as I know.
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:39 p.m. CST
Production Values
by Peter
I think this is the best Doctor Who has ever looked. This show was famous for terrible production values, back in the day; wobbly sets, terrible effects and dodgy props that looked like household items covered in silver foil. So, a question for the docbackers (especially those in North America).... How do you think the production values of Who now compare with the best of American TV?
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST
by Pogue__Mahone
I think it's safe to say that Doctor Who's production values are on par if not better than North American TV. Last night looked spectacular.
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST
by Angus Gore
It seems obvious that the Daleks were lying to the Doctor from the beginning: their real headache was the Oswin/Dalek that had taken over the planet and put up the force field, making it impossible for them to enter. I think the Daleks saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone by 'collecting' the Doctor and his companions to do their dirty work for them. I also don't think that Oswin's human identity should be perceived as anything but a manifestation of her need to remain human after her conversion. She isn't a Tesselecta, in other words. There isn't enough to go on as to who she was before this conversion, except a possible genius slumming it on a starliner until it crashed into that 'not very nice' place. There is also nothing to suggest that Oswin will have a River Song-like return in the Doctor's life: she didn't know who he was beforehand - and, unless her memories are scrambled or, and this might be more interesting, not her own - we can't even guess at this. There might be something to suggest her memories are not altogether what they should be because of her name 'Oswin Oswald' This sounds like two last names, to me (and given we've been told the new companion is named 'Clara Oswin'), names that might have been side by side on the ship's manifest. I've no idea how that might have been scrambled in her head, except through some mental mangling during the conversion process, or, as suggested, her memories are not 'hers.' Again, who knows? One thing I did notice, and this might just be a bit of prop recycling (like the walls of the aslym looked a lot like the interior of the Tardis from The Doctor's Wife), but Oswin's 'chair' is the same one in Jenny's space ship at the end of the Doctor's Daughter. Again, probably just a coincidence, but a visual cue can sometimes be deliberate. I'd hate to guess. One gripe: it would be nice if Moffat could write some real women into this program. His defacto type seems to be the nerd's dream girl, sexy, flirty, dressed to impress. Great that they're intelligent, but that just seems a hint of a put-on, too, almost fetishistic, in a way. The nerdy boys with their dream girls. I know one woman too many who watches this show with more than a little despair. I don't blame them. There's also something to be said for the sometimes not-so-subtle put-downs of the feminine choice in his series. Amy's profession is mocked by her husband; Oswin's 'gay phase' (why would it have been bad if she were gay? Why not just say she loved another girl and leave it at that?); River's 'nights out' with the Doctor while in prison (oh, how NICE of him), how so many seem to die for him or because of him (why didn't he try to save Abigail in A Christmas Carol?), and there really isn't much more to them than that? The way Moffat writes women, you'd think there was only one version - and not a terribly realistic one, at that. Donna, like her or not, was probably the most realistic companion - and look how she ended up. Poor things. Nerdy sexism rules in his universe. But I guess Moffat knows (part of) his audience, seeing as how he must have lusted over Leela or Romana or Peri and, like the other boys, was a bit disappointed there wasn't any romance back in the old days. I've always been interested in how certain blokes just want the pretty girls to fawn all over them and if the Amys and Rivers and (presumably) Oswins aren't key examples of this, I don't know what they are.
Sept. 2, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST
todayzspecial re: Parliament music and OZ connections
by Merrick
Ties into several further OZ connections I noticed. Oswin (OZwin?) looks a bit like Dorothy as seen in artwork for the original OZ books, and...of course...there was a character called Ozma (a princess) in those books.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:07 p.m. CST
Saying "Doctor who?" is because...
by SgtHowie
The "Doctor who?" scene at the end of Asylum was to remind the audience of the big question that the whole of the last mini season was spent setting up; the ultimate question, when silence must fall, is "Doctor who?". It is not a throwaway gag like it was in "Black Orchid" and elsewhere. This is the linking thread which will run through the series until the 50th anniversary, and since it is almost a year ago that the question was set up, it had to be flagged up because most of the audience won't have been spending the last year thinking about "Doctor Who". The Doctor is repeating exactly what he heard from Dorium. Even the emphasis of the line: "Doc...tor...WHO"
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST
theseeker, yeah I still want to know what this spoiler in the end credits was?
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
Yeah the production values are stellar. I'm glad the eccelston season looked so cheeseball because it helps bridge the old show to the new, but I've always felt the production values increased exponentially with each new season of new-Who, none more so than the leap from Series 4 to Series 5/Tennant specials when they switched to HD.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST
and Osmium was Parliament's first album in 1970
by Kathryn Gail
Now I'm trying to think of some connection to the musical The Wiz. . . also 1970s, vaguely related musical type. . . and if ANY of that's in there, I'll giggle continuously for the rest of my life. But seriously: there's definitely enough in there to make the Wizard of Oz a viable potential type of theme, good catches everyone (now if it adds in a theme about gold my head will spin uncontrollably - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz#The_Gold_Standard_representation_of_the_story ). And perhaps I'm still a bit giddy over this episode (does it show).
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST
well put Globalinquest, it's a shame, especially from what I can tell the majority of modern WHO fans are in fact female
by Rebel Scumb
Maybe that's just here in Canada but in my travels at least 90% of all the people I've met who are into doctor who are college girls, I don't know any kids who like it except my ex-girlfriend's 2 sons, and my nephew all of whom only know about it because of me. My whole introduction to Who, aside from some vague childhood knowledge of 'the scary weird show' is that it was Scifi for girls.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:22 p.m. CST
Walking flirts???
by HollywoodHellraiser
@ hornorsilk - I get what you're saying but Martha, Donna, and even Billie(thought she were more "in love" with the Doctor like Martha than flirting). As for Amy she just didn't seem all that interested in the Doctor. She clearly love the adventure more than anything. How the new girl end up preceiving the Doctor is too early to tell.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST
moffat's female characters
by Minque
I think it likely that far more than nerdy boys would find JLC/Oswin attractive. My husband, who (inexlicably) is not a Doctor Who fan thought her very attractive and enjoyed the show, particularly the end twist. Neither I, nor my female friends or relatives who watch the show despair over the female characters' depictions. They are strong, self-reliant women. There were plenty of male characters who died helping the Doctor in S5 and 6 (e.g., Fr. Octavian, the father in Vampires of Venice, the father in Almost People). And there is nothing wrong with attractive leads generally. Plenty of female fans (myself included) found David Tennant enjoyable to watch for multiple reasons. I always am surprised at the criticism that creates; often I suspect from the same fans who quite enjoyed watching Leela and Peri. This was a great episode. I am thrilled we get to see another just days from now!
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:37 p.m. CST
by Kathryn Gail
I'll also be really sorry to see Rory go because he's the guy who can walk into a Doctor scenario, immediately get that an alien vehicle might feature dimensional anomalies, move right on to seeing how dangerous everything is, and go along anyway. Speaking of. . . I'd have been in a LOT more of a panic if I were confronted with that many Daleks (not to mention the idea that they think of themselves as having a parliamentary system of government and some sort of aesthetic orientation toward life and death), but I guess that's part of the show's fine tradition of not spending time on lengthy panic reactions. I was randomly re-watching The Ark in Space a couple days ago, and I'm pretty sure most humans would be experiencing at least borderline PTSD for at least the next 2 hours if a 7-foot-tall cockroach carcass toppled out of storage closet onto them!
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:38 p.m. CST
I think the spoiler in the end credits being referred to
by DoctorTom
was actually Jenna Louise Coleman's name in the credits.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:43 p.m. CST
by jason baum
can't really agree with your take of moff's female characters but need to reread yer post to really give you a full response. but just a heads up donna was an RTD character not Moffat's.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:46 p.m. CST
Definitely an enjoyable start to the season
by DoctorTom
Despite a couple of plot holes, it was fun, especially getting to see Rory try to give the Daleks the "eggs". As for Oswin, we'll see how JLC shows up again. There's many possibilities - the "It's a Wonderful Life" bit mentioned where time's changed, or her just being a different character. Maybe she'll be a Dalek with human emotions going around with a perception filter. I would think, though, that the Doctor could get her to a time period where he could get her a proper body again if she needs a human body - reverse the nanogenes, hook her up to a Flesh Avatar and let her go on that way. I don't see her being a time agent in a Teselecta, though. She was thinking she was a Dalek, and the room was a way of suggesting the inside of a Dalek shell. More importantly, if she was in a Teselecta, she wouldn't have had a Dalek infection and wouldn't have been slipping into the "ex - ter - mi- nate" mode she was near the end. Rebel brought up a good point about the nanocloud, it would make sense if the Daleks would carpet bomb a planet with the nanogenes sometime and convert it. And, given the spoiler from that toy that was posted earlier in the thread, maybe they will start doing that to SPECULATION ON A POTENTIAL SPOILER FROM A TOY BEING OFFERED) deny Cybermen normal humans to process. I would suspect that the nanogenes would also make the humans different enough so that cyberconversion wouldn't work, or even if it did the resulting cybermen would still mentally be Daleks.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST
Octavian - comments about the Doctor being scared
by DoctorTom
When the Doctor was in front of the Parliament, he knew that they obviously wanted him alive for some reason, so he had no reason to be scared then. On the planet, several Daleks had woken up and were going to sucker his face off, metaphorically. We've seen someone killed that way in Dalek. There's a good reason the Doctor's scared in that scene. He's not being a pussy at all.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:53 p.m. CST
One big plot hole that I see, but it addresses rebel scumb's question
by DoctorTom
Why were the Daleks afraid of things getting off the planet? Because of the big plot hole that had the asylum constructed the way it was. The force field keeping the insane Daleks in is based inside the force field, where the insane Daleks are kept. The Doctor finds a teleporter pad, inside the Dalek prison. There is now somebody very clever who's been dalekized, who originally came down in a crashed spaceship, would be clever enough to figure out how to turn off the forcefields and to use the teleporter pad to get onto a passing spaceship. Not the most secure of designs. Still, most of the Daleks down there didn't seem to functional enough to be able to think of those things. I guess they didn't have any damaged or insane scientist Daleks stuck down there. Though I half suspected to see Dalek Caan stuck down there.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST
Orange Cinema
by Angus Gore
I know Donna was not a Moffat creation - that was my point. I don't see Moffat ever creating a female character who could ever be construed as not having some fantasy aspect (ie: flirty, sexual availability). I'll point out in the comments of this docback itself - for some comments, the very first notice of Oswin is her 'hotness' or 'I'd do that' type of commentary. Unless she's a tragic damsel in distress sort, ie: Abigail. He's capable of writing interesting women, interesting characters (I rather liked the Dalek/human who lures the Doctor to Skaro - would like to see more of her, actually) - I wish he did it more often. A complex female character does not have to be limited to a (potential) love interest or attachment to another character. They can be independent.
Sept. 2, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST
One more speculation on the nanocloud
by DoctorTom
Maybe the Daleks have used them before in a big way, to take care of all the Thals on Skaro It does bring up another issue, though. Iit makes you wonder why they wouldn't have the same defenses on their home planet that they do on their asylum planet.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:02 p.m. CST
Walking Flirts and the Moff
by HornOrSilk
Captain Jack: check. River Song: check. Amy: you missed the time she tried to make out with the Doctor? The way she flirts with herself? She is a walking flirt who just got married. and now.. the newest.. yep flirt with the Doctor, Rory, etc...
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST
by maelstrom_ZERO
Anyone know the new font they used for the opening sequence, when they were listing the actors' names and story title?
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST
Is it just me, or have they tried turning Amy Pond into Mary Jane Watson?
by DoctorTom
red haired model, nerdy boyfriend with a secret identity (this case, the Lone Centurian), editors trying to get rid of the marriage?
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST
hornorsilk - that only counts for the companions
by DoctorTom
I don't think Madame Kovarian will be accused of being a flirt. Or Nancy from The Empty Child. Or (so far) Liz Ten. Mind you, Madame Vastra can probably be added to the list of flirts. Then again, she has the feel of being a companion even though her travelling in the TARDIS has been limited. And the comments we've seen from Strax are probably about as close to flirting as Sontarans ever get.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:09 p.m. CST
Potential MASSIVE Spoiler (Christmas Ep?)
by meldy
http://forbiddenplanet.com/90164-doctor-who-trans-temporal-sonic-screwdriver/ The blurb at the side seems to suggest a connection to the forthcoming Christmas episode. Please read at your own risk... (Apologies if this has come up before!)
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:10 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
Thanks for the input! The female Who fans I know are all quite smitten with Tennant, along with Smith, Eccelston and Barrowman as well!
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:10 p.m. CST
Did anyone catch?
by DoctorTom
I know they referenced Kembel, Spiridon and Exxilon, but the Daleks they showed there had their weapons arms removed. Did anybody see a Dalek with a flamethrower arm, or an Exxilon-style machine gun arm instead of the normal arm on the asylum planet?
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST
meldy, thanks for that! It Definitely does look spoilery, though
by DoctorTom
Not the least of which is a new sonic screwdriver that has a "wood" setting. You knew it was just a matter of time.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST
doctortom- re: credit spoiler
by Rebel Scumb
daleks created by Terry Nations' or 'The Ood created by russel t davies
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:15 p.m. CST
by Angus Gore
As for the defensive commentary from a couple of (I'm guessing, though it's interesting there are few openly female docbackers here - that I've noticed) female commentators that they don't have an issue with the females as written by Moffat (or anyone else) on this program - No, there is nothing wrong with finding someone attractive, male or female. That is hardly the point of what I was talking about. My concern is when the 'female' in question is written in a specific manner that is clearly not about the quality of her as a person, BUT her attractiveness being the defining attribute. Her sexual availability. Her flirtations. Her manner of dress. DW might be tame compared to some other SF/fantasy/gamer depictions out there, but the need to make a, in Hollywood parlance, f***able companion is more than plaintive. It's how you sell it. The girls are sexy/pretty attachments. Moffat's writing can be derogatory, whether you notice it or not. Perhaps you only notice the 'romance' of it and forget everything else. That's fine, if that's what you get from it. I notice the things like River being in prison for something she didn't do and the idea that The Doctor 'entertains' her at his own leisure to be offensive. Moffat had a great start with that character, until he turned her into a smart-mouthed sexpot without a clue who needs to learn a Valuable Lesson. Lovesick River Song made no sense to me. I also found the entire episode of A Christmas Carol to be enormously offensive: Moffat basically making grotesque amusement of women (The Doctor 'marries' Marilyn Monroe - as a JOKE - one of the most tragically objectified used/abused female figures in history), then prefers to reform a grumpy old man instead of possibly saving the life of a woman, who, like River, is trapped in a box and only let out at the leisure of those adoring boys, once a year, until her death. Nice. These patterns apply in (lesser) ways to Reinette and even Amy Pond herself. It's Moffat's MO and it's one I hope he moves on from in the near future.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
As of today I have crossed the 50,000 word barrier in writing my novel! Or in photography terms, I'm told that's 50 pictures worth. Sorry offtopic, but it feels like a big achievement.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:24 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
Yeah the way River is written and performed in the LIBRARY 2 parter compared to all her Smith era appearances is a good example. River in her initial appearance comes across as a real person, someone with a history, and some mystery yes, but a real woman. WHere as the Smith River feels more cartoonishly over the top. And you're right, it's not about the characters being attractive or not, that's not the issue at all. Just the notion of characters being portrayed as characters and not caricatures.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:36 p.m. CST
Globalinquest / Rebel Scumb
by meldy
I think Rivers changing behaviour is very much of consequence of her interactions with the doctor. She was grown as a psychotic killer, whose friendship with the doctor has developed over time, to what became her ultimate sacrifice in the library. She was therefore by nature a caricature in LKH. I think Moffat is an incurable romantic at heart, hence a lot of good looking actresses are employed as they sell more romantic notions more easily. Personally I think Moffat writes amazing female characters - yes, perhaps a bit flirty sometimes, but never misogynistic. Sally Sparrow is a perfect example of a brilliant Moffat character. Too bad Carey Mulligan is ridiculously talented and gone to Hollywood - she would have brought a very different, non-feisty, calmness to being a companion.
Sept. 2, 2012, 3:55 p.m. CST
Oswin looks like dorothy? Oswin's outfit = star trek red shirt
by TodayzSpecial
Actually I thought Oswin's outfit was a clear shout-out to the red-shirt classic Star Trek female uniform. Red Shirt = Clearly going to be killed off. The neck-line was a dead give away. No go go boots tho ....
Sept. 2, 2012, 4 p.m. CST
And if something can be remembered, it can come back.
by Gorehog
I hope JLC doesn't just appear because she's "remembered."
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:08 p.m. CST
Moffat can't write real female characters ?
by cosmic_dolphin
I guess you never watched Press Gang then ?
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
Well again I don't think either me or global has a problem with them casting good looking actresses. I think it's more just the 'mary sue' effect people were discussing a few docbacks ago.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:47 p.m. CST
Interesting thing I noticed about River recently, the first time she appears in the Library, she's wearing a spacesuit
by Rebel Scumb
sort of a neat parallel to her being the impossible astronaut
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:48 p.m. CST
cosmic dolphin
by Rebel Scumb
It's not that he can't, clearly he can. It just seems like his sensibilities as a writer have changed a bit since he became showrunner of Who compared with before.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:49 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
I have a feeling it will be something like that. Sort of like Rory coming back as an Auton without any real explanation.
Sept. 2, 2012, 4:52 p.m. CST
If Oswin's human voice is an issue for you...
by SgtHowie
then try figuring out how the hell she could transmit sections from Carmen! As the Doctor says, it's all a dream, or a product of her imagination if you prefer. Her consciousness is directly plugged into Dalek technology, it sends out what precisely what she wants it to send out.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:06 p.m. CST
The doctor going to SKaro not necessarily a plot hole
by Rebel Scumb
In terms of it being destroyed previously, it did look like it was in ruins, so unless the destruction meant the planetary body itself had exploded then I can accept this as 'destroyed' as for being timelocked though, I've lost track of what the rules are now for all that stuff.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:06 p.m. CST
I was hoping...
by david
... that it would turn out that normal Daleks are the ones who end up in the asylum. Or what we would think of as normal anyway. I thought for a moment that he was going to beam down and find Daleks who could live alongside others but had been usurped by some infection/madness/cult and relegated to the scrap heap. Recast the Daleks as deserving of pity or the victims of a type. Still, very enjoyable. I like it when they telegraph an issue / question - tonight it was "who is she really and how is she coping so well in the asylum?". I always feel its a game: Moff begs you to spend the episode trying to figure something out. Then he challenges himself to solve it in a way that makes you smile.
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST
Moff can't write female characters ?
by dj_bollocks
As cosmic_dolphin already stated you haven't really watched much of his work have you ? Let's not forget he doesn't direct the episodes either - clearly he has a huge input as to how the show and characters are portrayed and he has the final say in casting, but to say that he can't wright a female character is ridiculous. And let's not forget how often the female companion has been objectified in the past - it's not new to Who. Peri in a bikini ? Leela in leather ? Moff's written as has been mentioned Sally Sparrow and Madame de Pompadour. Anyway, these characters are meant to be fun - would you want a dark, moody and troubled female companion - I know I wouldn't. I thought JLC's character was beautifully written and wonderfully acted. If anything JLC showed up Karen's somewhat 2 Dimensional abilities...
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:55 p.m. CST
minor spoiler?
by John Hammel
Is this the first time in any incarnation where he or anyone actually used both words "Doctor Who" together in referring to the Doctor?
Sept. 2, 2012, 5:58 p.m. CST
karellen -- no see the list here
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:21 p.m. CST
Amazing Ep.
by Bab5fan
JLC is so adorable.
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:38 p.m. CST
Skaro being (or not being) timelocked
by DoctorTom
We are told the battle was timelocked, and that Gallifrey was on the fringes of the battle. We aren't told if Skaro was included in the timelock, though. The Daleks may have moved on from Skaro in that final battle. Given the Doctor not making any comments about the time locks breaking down then it probably wasn't included. Or Moffat forgot that Skaro was supposed to be timelocked too. Or A Skaro had been timelocked, but they made another SKaro (presumably like they made another one after Remembrance of the Daleks). Daleks don't seem sentimental enough to call a place "New" Skaro.
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:41 p.m. CST
karellan - Doctor Who
by DoctorTom
the computer WOTAN in the first Doctor story The War Machines referred to Doctor Who. Troughton used a version of Doctor Who 'disguised' by having Who be in a different language. Also, it's not a character doing it, but the end credits referred to him as Doctor Who through Baker or Davison.
Sept. 2, 2012, 6:42 p.m. CST
ah, beaten to the punch by Hornorsilk
by DoctorTom
I should have actually read the Next Post Down before replying. My vision is impaired, I can not see.....
Sept. 2, 2012, 7:15 p.m. CST
well if it's Ladies in the House Say Whooo day. . .
by Kathryn Gail
Heyyyy laaadieees*, we've got the same aspiration/visualization skills as the gents, amIright? We're "not without agency as viewers," as the academics say? I mean, obviously this is the wrong forum for a generic "it's just a show" argument, but we ARE dealing with fictional characters, some of whom we (as viewers) imagine being in the show WITH (9, I'm leering at you like the worst objectifier in the history of cretinous behavior), and some of whom we want to BE; each viewer decides which is which, and why. If I'm a main female character, Moff, please don't cut me off at insightfulness and leadership (and you haven't, so thank you!) or I'll fall asleep by the first ad break; you're not done writing until I'm never in the can when adventure calls, it never takes me over a week to realize I could've winked/sassed back at someone, I'm never short of breath running down those corridors, and even snarky teen viewers secretly admit my look is amazing. I think Moffat's really pretty equitable with this sort of thing--most of his characters have both attractive characteristics (for viewers to enjoy ascribing to themselves or their friends/love interests), interesting flaws, three-dimensional backstories, and snares of their own making, and. . . seriously, the NuWho Doctors aren't such popular cosplay subjects because people think if they could just look like a Doctor, more people would seek them out for lectures on the wave nature of sound. . . __________ *Right, I'm one too, so please continue reading in the friendly, bantering, wry and largely rhetorical tone in which this is intended!
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:09 p.m. CST
Steven Moffat is the Peter Jackson of the telly
by FeralAngel
As far as I'm concerned. The ability to juggle plot lines, story arcs, overarching themes, interdimensional undercurrents, pseudo-historical events and keep it all lucid, not to mention injecting truly affecting bits of human warmth and humor into the seething turbulent morass every now and then and making it all WORK so consistently...it's a GIFT, I tell you, a GIFT.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:10 p.m. CST
Did Rory get gelly?
by FeralAngel
The hell with his hair?
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:13 p.m. CST
The Doctor and Amy have amazing chemistry
by FeralAngel
And so do the actors who play them. Just sayin'.
Sept. 2, 2012, 8:22 p.m. CST
So..maybe the new companion...
by FeralAngel
...isn't the new companion. Maybe Moffat pulled a fast one. Leaked all over the media about a new companion for the Doc. And then would-be-new-companion got killed off in the first episode. Whoopsy! BWA HA HA HA HA And the new companion will be the old companion, Amy, minus the insufferable Rory. Booyah!
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:08 p.m. CST
loved the premiere...and speculation on the last fall episode
by Greg
It's set in New York. Little Melody Pond somehow got from Florida to New York before regenerating back in Series 5. River is supposed to be in the same episode, yes? Think that will finally be explained, and the Angels will be part of it? Maybe part of the Pond family tragedy?
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:40 p.m. CST
What was it Homer Simpson said???
by Lukowicz
What is someone who wears a 'Genius at work' shirt doing watching a children's show? Ok, I'm paraphrasing a bit, but my point remains valid. I don't really get how anyone could complain too loudly about anything RTD or Moff has done. And I am good at figuring the show's out before the end. The second the "oldest question" was mentioned I knew what it was. I guessed River was Melody episodes before it happened. Yeah, of course it was easy to spot that Oswin was a Dalek. Anything living or dead, right? Why would genius be any protection, especially when she is looking out what is obviously a dalek eyestalk? My point? Who cares?? It was a great way to spend an hour! Plothole this, countered in another episode that, I don't get the Moffat hate, just as I never get the pushback on any particular Doctor. You never know what you will get. How may times have they said that about regeneration. You have to buy in. Someone didn't like a 'sentient TARDIS?' How could you not love every fucking second of "The Doctor's Wife"??? An episode written by a true fan of the show? Neil Gaiman handed us one of the single most PURE episodes canon wise, and still you complain. Yeah some of them lately have gotten a wee bit silly, so what? Try sitting through some of the "classic" episodes and see if you don't want to burn out your eyes and bury them. And yes, I grew up with Tom Baker, and watched religiously until the sad demise of the original run. (Minnesota Public television rocked.) The daleks forgetting who the Doctor is? Brilliant. It's not like the Daleks won't be doing some research on that "Doctor" and his Blue Box. I mean, come on guys, this is a show that after all, took a chance and replaced the main actor when it became apparent he was ill and dying. How many shows have done that and lasted more then one more season? And that was 40 some years ago! How many of us got teased as kids for loving this show? I got a lil shudder when footage of the NY showing showcased the standing ovation and chanting. Where was I? Oh yeah, it's a rant. Was there someone bitching about too many hot sexy smart female companions? Um, Mel? Eww. Peri? Smart as a hammer, that one. Adric? Me, I am happy to see the back of Amy Pond. For some reason, she never did it for me. Yeah, I'll agree the not being able to have more babies thing seemed weak. Better if she had cheated on Rory. She tried with the Doctor after all, and even flirted with herself in "Time"/"Space". Red headed slag. And Rory? Under utilized. The man's got 2000 years of memories he can tap. He should be able to do almost anything skill wise, and exude and aura of wisdom and experience. But instead he remains henpecked and unsure of himself. Don't like River? Just watch Silence in the Library over and over and enjoy that death scene. If Jack comes back, I hope he gets a bit of a Moffat treatment himself. As in not flaming gay, like RTD likes to cram down our throats. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but damn. He's pansexual after all. I guess my point is, if you are not thrilled with the way an episode turns out, just wait. If your tired of clever Moff, wait. If Matt Smith is too wacky for you, you've never seen Patrick Troughton. Hell, every single Doctor has been peculiar in some way. The show is about change, and how the Doctor makes us better. As long as he remains a he, I'll always be watching. And once again, Patrick Stewart as the Doctor, Tom Baker as The Master.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:42 p.m. CST
The Daleks were not afraid to die
by INWOsuxRED
Clearly they were afraid Oswin would corrupt them before they could complete their missions. They weren't afraid of the crazy Daleks getting out, they were afraid of this experiment that had gone wrong. They had one of the craziest Daleks ever sitting with them, they didn't fear crazy. I'd also suspect she was the one able to drop the force field for the other ship to crash. It is possible the transmat beams would have been blocked if they contained Daleks, or it is possible the Daleks already tried the mission and were corrupted and never heard from again. Either way, the Daleks were afraid she would get out, and they couldn't go in to stop her, so they turned to the Doctor. With all this being the case, I'd say the Daleks won.
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:43 p.m. CST
The Doctor's Wife wins Hugo!
by Kauzi Sezso
Accepted by Neil Gaiman! Life is good!
Sept. 2, 2012, 9:47 p.m. CST
@kauzi sezso
by Lukowicz
I'll drink to that!
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:20 p.m. CST
In the beginning scene, who is 'she' and Hannah?
by mistergreen
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:54 p.m. CST
Fully satisfying episode - thanks to who made it
by Dreamfasting
That was exactly what the reboot the Daleks needed - both in tone and lore. I love seeing a scene on a ruined Skaro ... I don't consider it a plot hole or something to be explained away. I consider it a plot exclamation mark. A sort of "Skaro exists. Deal with it." statement that frees the imagination to consider a thousand stories that lead to its shattered ruins. The Prime Minister of the Daleks sounded a little more like Davros than a regular Dalek (perhaps just the lack of extra sound effects for the shell, but my imagination drempt through this being one of the Davros-clone Daleks). The new companion ... I actually wasn't 100% sure it was her, but there was just something in the presentation of her character that made her sound permanent. Her arc is classic Moff ... all the tidbits are there: the milk, the timing, this whole trail of breadcrumbs leading to the twist so that the moment the Doctor looks at her and pauses, all the nagging suspions crystalize into a moment of clarity just seconds before the official reveal. I long considered actually using the exact term "Doctor who?" to be a polite taboo within the show. But it would appear that between last season and this one, it is a taboo that is being directly dismissed. But it's been done in ways that I'm fine with, especially when it is done the way it is here. When the early trailers showed the Parliament of the Daleks, in the back of my mind, I expected the episode to end, yet again, with them all being blown up. What I like most about this episode is the proportionality. No Deus Ex Machina. Small numbers of Daleks he can outwit and destroy. Whole armies? He just leaves.
Sept. 2, 2012, 10:54 p.m. CST
er ... all who made it.
by Dreamfasting
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:25 p.m. CST
This episode wasn't bad but it wasn't very good either.
by cerberus
That seems to be this show in a nutshell. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. My expectations were already low because this episode was going to have Daleks in them. The Daleks are by far the corniest part of this franchise and that is really saying something. The fans love them to death, because they were never given a chance to grow tired of them due to the fact that the franchise was in hibernation for so long. If the franchise was never mothballed I guarantee you that the Daleks would have evolved into something else entirely or they would have been thrown away. It seems even Moffat is catching on to how boring they are because now he is giving us human Daleks. I was hoping that by the end of the episode those models would be the norm and the trashcans with plungers sticking out of them would be gone. No such luck, we have action figures to move. Matt Smith is great. His Doctor continues to be a very interesting character trapped in a very sub-par show. Like Cumberbatch, the star of another Moffat show he seems to be growing in leaps and bounds, so much so that the show barely fits him anymore. It's time to see if he can helm a real blockbuster instead of the pretend ones (complete with fake movie postes!) Moffat is handing him this season. Arthur Darvill continues to make use of what little he is given and Karen Gillan continues to take up space with aplomb.
Sept. 2, 2012, 11:29 p.m. CST
Exciting news!
by Pogue__Mahone
Apparently Neil Gaimen has let it slip that he's writing another Doctor Who episode! WOOHOO! http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/09/neil-gaiman-writing-another-doctor-who-episode
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:02 a.m. CST
Neil Gaimen?
by cerberus
I like Gaimen but his episode (The TARDIS as a chick) felt like bad fanfic.
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:06 a.m. CST
by Kauzi Sezso
Yes, he said he would be crazy to write another one, so he's on his third draft. And the crowd went wild!
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:07 a.m. CST
If you think the daleks are 'corny' then you have no fucking clue and certainly are NOT a Dr Who fan...
by quantize
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:30 a.m. CST
by Lukowicz
Totally agree about Darvill, and that Red waste of space. But bitching about Gaiman? Ok, I am biased. Being a geek in Minnesota, ok. I know him. I know Neil Gaiman. Call me a name dropper, I'm just stating a fact. Your complaint is that 'The Doctor's Wife' felt like fanfic. What if one of us wrote a script that got picked up? Feel however you want about him and his work. Fact is, the man is a die hard fan. Doctor Who is THE show he watched as a kid. And yeah, MOST of the time, it has been a sub par show. I can say it. Like The Imp says, make it your armour. I daresay Neil would go toe to toe with doctortom and whoop his ass(no offense doctortom, I look to you for corrections) in terms of show knowledge. What did he give us? An episode that us more of the TARDIS interior then ever before(whereas Moffat claimed it wasn't about 'her'.). Mentions of the true origin of how the Doctor acquired her in the first place? Sexy????? Who didn't didn't spew their beer at that? Jesus, guys. We live in the Golden Age people. Be they perfect or not, our comics, our idols, our Doctors, fuck...Westeros???? They are at the forefront of pop culture. We spent our lives getting torn down cuz the things we liked weren't cool. Now that they are cool, why would we tear them down?
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:02 a.m. CST
Doctor Who? (Spoilers) & other random thoughts
by pat
Could the Daleks asking "Doctor Who?" be what causes silence to fall? They become obsessed with finding out who this doctor is & somehow cause the silence - maybe they death & destruction in their wake as they try to find him. Presumably they already do that so not sure how searching for the Doctor would be any different. Also does the Doctor ever make any attempt to stop the Daleks when they're not threatening Earth? Why would he only be concerned with humans? To have classic series Daleks, the asylum must have been from before the Time War, right? The asylum looked like it used to be operated by normal Daleks & it was abandoned at some point - leaving the "patients" to fend fof themselves. How did it survive the time war? If its not from before the time war why would the new Daleks create classic style Daleks? How did the new paradigm recreate that many Daleks? More progenitors? What lazy BS that was. Press a button & poof out come new Daleks - casing & all. I actually like the new design but story wise it doesn't make any sense that completely different ones would come out. I'm also tired of seing the "last Daleks in existence" only to find a massive army of them a few episodes later. The episode was good but not great. The asylum itself was underwhelming - kind of like when we finally could have seen more of the TARDIS & all we saw was endless corridors. A planet sized asylum with millions of Daleks & we see one room with 10 Daleks. The promos showed classic Daleks very prominently but all we got were fleeting glances. Blink & you miss it. Very disappointing. Loved Oswin but from the start something seemed wrong. How does she make suflet every day? How does she hold off the Daleks? She's trapped in a marooned ship for a year but her hair, makeup, clothes all looked great. Too good for something trapped for a year. I thought she was going to be a hybrid like the others from her ship. I'm very curious what they did to her. Did they just shove her in a casing? The show seemed she no longer had her human body. Did they mutate her some how or cut out her mind to somehow use in a casing? It seems to much of a coincedance that the actress is the new companion. Hopefully we'll find out more about Oswin & the new companion won't just be her cousin.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:35 a.m. CST
*Spoiler* Amy and Rory
by Jeffrey Possberg
(okay first: I LOVE that Rory asked what colour the Daleks in the asylum were and following up with 'there were no good questions left') Any theories on the specifics of Amy / Rory departure? A classic 'death' by the Weeping Angels involving time displacement? Try as I might, I still have trouble buying the concept of the eyes being used to have Weeping Angels 'get inside' their victims and them casually snapping necks in their second appearance(s). Their time displacement was a far better conceptual attack. As much as Karen has made the comments of wanting to not be visited down the line by the show, I certainly hope she's available for some aspect of the 50th anniversary special(s).
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:48 a.m. CST
Just realised that Oswald...
by berksbear
...can be rearranged to Was Old (as in 'was old Oswin') - probably nothing to it though.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:48 a.m. CST
@jeffspot - I think we've already seen evidence of the exit. (SPOILERS)
by V'Shael
There is yet no explanation for Amy raising River in the orphanage. She saw lots of photos of herself with the baby, smiling. But those events had not happened. So I think they go back in time, but they insert themselves into Rivers childhood and actually do finally raise her as a child of their own. For a while, anyway.
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:53 a.m. CST
A Dalek asylum, so the assumption is that all the other kill crazy Daleks are sane :O Great bonkers episode!!
by cameron
New assistant...Mad as the doctor, sexy as hell, bakes in her spare time...i'm in!
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:37 a.m. CST
I am SO PUMPED for the next episode. Dinosaurs on a spaceship + Fifth Element aliens? Hell yes!
by happybunni
Sept. 3, 2012, 5:19 a.m. CST
There is a 6th episode of Pond life
by Beastlaz
It was only available for Itunes subscribers in the USA, it deals with how the doctor received the summons to Skaro, and is definately the most interesting episode of them all. Some fine upstanding gent has placed it on You tube, search for 'Doctor Who--Prequel: Asylum of the Daleks' best hurry before it's deleted. Apple's not lnown for their sense of humour
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:15 a.m. CST
Good catch beastlaz
by dj_bollocks
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:27 a.m. CST
and here it is...
by emeraldboy
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:29 a.m. CST
Holy shit, that prequel was fantastic!
by V'Shael
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1r2dQkB1fY But yeah, chances are it won't stay up long. In my opinion, easily the best thing about episode 7x01. 2 and half minutes long, and way more than 2.5 times the amount of wit, humor, suspense and intrigue and emotional wallop than Pond Life gave us.
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:30 a.m. CST
That prequel is now available from iTunes-UK
by V'Shael
Moffat just tweeted it :)
Sept. 3, 2012, 7:12 a.m. CST
Okay, that got my attention.
by veteran_of_mu
The ep. was basically okay but ultimately forgettable. Pond Life was a drag. But that prequel grabbed my brain by the medulla oblongata and yanked hard. The Messenger is far and away the creepiest bastard we've seen in Who since ... ever.
Sept. 3, 2012, 7:27 a.m. CST
Agreed, that prequel was great
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 3, 2012, 7:40 a.m. CST
The prequel raises the question...
by HornOrSilk
Dream Lord? Or just a dead end...
Sept. 3, 2012, 7:52 a.m. CST
Oswin's Human Voice
by Tassium
As mentioned the whole world that 'Oswin' occupies is a construct. A writing technique was used to make this human voice thing believable/acceptable, the music playing over the intercom (Carmen?) If Dalek-Oswin can recreate Carmen she/it can certainly do a human voice! Basically a plot device that is vital to the story is used previously in the story in an innocent fashion. This was likely why the people sprouting Dalek protruberances was used. It helped to "sell" the idea of Oswin being a upgraded version. Much better writing than in the past. For those paying attention it flowed well without those awful magic solutions from nowhere.
Sept. 3, 2012, 7:57 a.m. CST
The thing is, people are assuming she created a fantasy world for herself
by HornOrSilk
I don't believe that. Not one bit. It just doesn't work (imo).
Sept. 3, 2012, 7:59 a.m. CST
Awesome prequel!
by Fuck The Napkin
How come that wasn't shown on TV beforehand? Or even released? That's shit to only see it after the episode. I enjoyed it way more than the episode itself! Make the series like that!
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:23 a.m. CST
Oswin's fantasy world...
by SgtHowie
... exists inside Steven Moffat's fantasy world. To try and impose your own set of rules on to a fantasy about a fantasy is weird. You can say you don't LIKE it, but to say it doesn't work doesn't make sense.
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:28 a.m. CST
sgthowie or maybe it is Moff's bluff, just like the Doctor's death
by HornOrSilk
Look for the prestige
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:33 a.m. CST
This is the best thing on TV!
by technosnob
Nuff said!
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:35 a.m. CST
Are you watching closely?
by SgtHowie
I know The Prestige inside out. :-) The Doctor's death wasn't actually a bluff, it was real. The Doctor had to then CHANGE it into a bluff while maintaining the illusion that it is still real. That's last year's discussion though. ;-) So how does Oswin projecting her fantasy, her self-image (which everyone has inside their head), not work? Within the pretty elastic boundaries permitted in the show, it seems ok to me.
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:46 a.m. CST
sgthowie --- Daleks are like that
by HornOrSilk
That is why it doesn't work. Daleks have no emotions, no thoughts of their past lives, nothing. It doesn't work. She isn't a Dalek. We are made to think she is.
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:54 a.m. CST
Osmin OZ connection
by drunkenmonkey73
I never pick up on these nice little connections. Pleased you lot are here to notice. Loved the episode.
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:57 a.m. CST
Doctor Who's new assistant *spoiler*
by drunkenmonkey73
Will Doctor Who's new companion be a dalek. I like that idea.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:09 a.m. CST
@hornorsilk; You have some big assumptions there
by SgtHowie
Moffat specifically tells us at least twice that the Dalek conversion technology as laid out in this episode DOES leave thoughts of the victim's past life. The woman who is the bait in the trap remembers her past life and daughter; the Doctor tries to reawaken these feelings when they are in the Parliament, but she is too far gone and doesn't care. The crash survivor tells us that he forgot about dying outside in the snow; then he remembers it. Again the conversion has really worked on him, no real vestige of humanity left. Oswin DOES remember her real human life in a BIG way and - unlike other victims - she DOESN'T let the Dalek mindset get a total grip. They can convert her body into a Dalek but Oswin is still Oswin in her own mind. That mind is fully integrated into a Dalek body, but retains human values and impulses. So she can access Dalek systems like even the Doctor never could, and abuse them in a way a Dalek never would.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:22 a.m. CST
sgthowie -- you are confusing the zombie daleks with the supposed FULL dalek conversion
by HornOrSilk
Full Dalek conversions have been done a long time on the show. No, this doesn't happen. Again, this is enough of a clue to tell everyone: she isn't a Dalek. The Doctor had it wrong.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:26 a.m. CST
No, the Doctor's companion is not going to be a Dalek
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:31 a.m. CST
prequel. . . mpromiseq. . . ?? sign in window
by Kathryn Gail
Great prequel, and. . . that backwards sign by 11's head. . . "mpromiseq. . . " oh, it's part of a whole sign in the window, but it's not on a grid (so no diagonals) but. . . right, it's a holiday here in the US and I've got a lot of boring chores backed up, so naturally I put the vid on full screen, stuck a mirror next to it, and. . . I can't see all the letters due to vid quality, but I can make out words like "will. . . discuss. . . philosophy, " (that one runs between 2 lines) "reveal. . . relight. . . promise. . . " Right, as I said, it's a holiday here in the US, and that's about the point at which shiny things started distracting me since I stare at a screen all week, can't make out all the letters anyway, feel justified in having a really short attention span today. If I were directing this short, I'd put that sign in just to watch the speculation run wild, but who knows. Maybe it's just an arty sign all the coffee/tea shops have because it's about coffee/tea-time chitchat, and it looked good above the speakers' heads just because secret words are being exchanged. . .
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:34 a.m. CST
If an episode doesn't make sense in itself...
by SgtHowie
then start digging through the history books. Shouldn't be necessary though, because "Doctor Who" is written to be understood and appreciated by it's intended audience; Saturday night viewers of BBC1. It's too pedantic to say that one kind of Dalek conversion isn't like another kind of Dalek conversion. In terms of telling a multi-threaded story in under 50 minutes, some story telling sleight of hand has to be employed, and Moffat would NOT have wasted that amount of time establishing the point that semi-converted people retain memories if it wasn't important later on. And the only reason it was important later on was in relation to Oswin's fate.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:35 a.m. CST
sgthowie -- the show itself said the two conversions are not the same
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:39 a.m. CST
just rewatched it...
by Greg
I'm liking the idea of Oswin reprogramming the Nano-cloud. The Doctor didn't have his protection since he gave it to Amy, maybe he picked up Oswin "in the Cloud" for the ride?
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:46 a.m. CST
sgthowie, I respectfully disagree
by Rebel Scumb
It was always the teselecta Doctor at lake silencio, no other version of events.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:47 a.m. CST
The window writing
by SgtHowie
The sign says gossip secret share reveal divulge surprise delight inform promise plea but all as one long string of letters. And @hornorsilk You still aren't explaining WHY it doesn't work for you. Remember this has got to work out and make sense for the casual viewer who doesn't know any past Dalek history.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:50 a.m. CST
sgthowie once again, the show itself said there were two types of conversion IN THIS EPISODE
by HornOrSilk
And the casual viewer knows a Dalek isn't like a human.
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:54 a.m. CST
thanks sgthowie (window writing)
by Kathryn Gail
probably just a nice atmospheric touch, then but nicely done!
Sept. 3, 2012, 10 a.m. CST
@rebelscumb: The Doctor DID die
by SgtHowie
That IS the Doctor, and he IS dead.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:02 a.m. CST
Re the above
by SgtHowie
Longer post was cut short! Sorry rebelscumb I did explain it. ... :-) And hornorsilk: Specifics, man, specifics!
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:08 a.m. CST
Dalek conversion
by meldy
As I alluded to with the nano-cloud I believe the dalek conversion is a process that has been banished to the asylum due to its effect of diluting the purity of daleks. Out of desperation in the Time-War and post-war, with the Cult of Skaro, the daleks clearly became obsessed with increasing their numbers. The dalek conversions were IMHO horrible attempts at this. They were quickly removed to the asylum for the greater good. The greater good...
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:10 a.m. CST
Loved the episode
by chronicallydepressedlemming
Everything made perfect sense to me, but oh well. Also loved the fact they put in the reference to a very old school playground joke about Daleks and the word Exterminate = Eggs-terminate! Never thought I'd see the day!
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:12 a.m. CST
I'd second that, icyhot (nano reprogramming)
by Kathryn Gail
(or am I 15th or 30th-ing it, I've lost track!) We've had a lingering look at organic organism repair in The Curse of the Black Spot (the siren/med tech just didn't have enough human information to work with) and an even longer one at the regenerative power of human memory (most of Season 5), and of course the Pandorica only needed a touch to get the details it needed. If Oswin/Oswyn/Clara/Somesurprisename gets a new body, we can't really cry deus ex machina! Oh and gangers, of course. And teselectas, if your corporeal self is tiny for whatever reason. Such as having been pared down to fit in a Dalek shell. She's actually got a lot of options for physically getting out of there!
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:15 a.m. CST
The Doctor's death explained....
by SgtHowie
That really is the Doctor, and he really is dead.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:18 a.m. CST
The Doctor's death explained... hopefully
by SgtHowie
Bloody hell, does this messageboard not accept certain punctuation and then delete at random?! Ok, with any luck, here's what happened in Series 6: The 1100 year old Doctor is killed beside the lake (in The Impossible Astronaut). Really is dead. Two hundred years before that, the Doctor finds out the details of his future death when he downloads the information from the Teselecta (in Let's Kill Hitler). Shortly before he is due to die, the Doctor runs into the Teselecta again and comes up with a cunning plan; he can escape his death and change the unchangeable by going to the lake inside the Teselecta and running through the death scene in safety. As far as the watching Universe is concerned, absolutely no change. It does all make sense within the plot of the show, but for some solid evidence you can look at what Steven Moffat said in the Confidential episode for Impossible Astronaut - That really is the Doctor, and he really is dead. Moffat was being very clear that this was not a dream, or a robot, or an illusion, or a clone; it really IS the Doctor and he really is DEAD. Which was true at that point in time. It only changed in the final episode of the series. Weird and confusing maybe, but we know that is Moffat's MO. :-)
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:33 a.m. CST
I think Moffat just lied in that quote
by Rebel Scumb
Because nothing would have changed in the timeline (nor could it) from when we saw the doctor 'die' in the season premiere to in the finale, all the events and choices and encouters the doctor who gets shot on the beach would have had/experienced would be the same, it doesn't allow for variation. I subscribe to the 'whatever happened happened' school of time travel interpretation, The doctor would have always encountered the Teselecta, and would have always known about his impending death, otherwise how could he have sent the invitations to the Ponds and River, its clear he knew what was going to happen. There isn't any point where the timeline could vary.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:41 a.m. CST
Did Oswin ever give her full name during the show?
by Bill Clay
I only ever heard her call herself Oswin during the show, but I'm seeing bloggers calling her Oswin Oswald or Clara Oswin, claiming she said her name to the Doctor. Did I miss something?
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:48 a.m. CST
@rebelscumb: the timeline does change
by SgtHowie
and what screws it up is the Teselecta. By the Doctor's standards of time travel, these are dangerous amateurs. What changes the timeline is when they come back to apprehend River and accidentally end up giving the Doctor the whole story on his own future. Being a much smarter and conscientious time traveller than the Teselecta crew, the Doctor realises he can't change future events and sadly accepts that his death will unfold as the record describes. But on his second encounter with the Teselecta he realises that as long events APPEAR to everyone else to be the same, there is a loophole he can exploit.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:50 a.m. CST
bill clay
by Rebel Scumb
She introduced herself as Oswin Oswald, where all the Clara stuff comes from (which I've seen also) I have no idea.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:53 a.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
But what evidence is there to support this? The doctor always would have encountered the teselecta in Berlin 1938 because that was already part of his established timeline with River. Infact all the River stuff is what confirms all of this has always happened the way we see it. So the teselecta's appearance would have ALWAYS been part of the chain of events which lead to the doctor being on the beach.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:07 a.m. CST
I was expecting a wider variety of Dalek models.
by Royston Lodge
I was expecting to see Dalek models from every Who era imprisoned in the asylum. It would have been great to see Ironsides and multi-colored Daleks next to the big clunky Daleks from the 60s.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:08 a.m. CST
Also, I hate it when the use the words 'Doctor Who' on the show.
by Royston Lodge
It's too gimmicky.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:08 a.m. CST
Also, shoulda kept the girl-Dalek as a companion.
by Royston Lodge
A Dalek as a companion. That'd be awesome.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST
Whatever Happened Happened
by meldy
This has been shown to not be the case at all. Bowie Base One is undeniable proof of that. The Doctor has interfered with history many times, sometimes on a minor level, but on Bowie Base One it was a grand and consequently, tragic scale. I love one aside RTD made: he thought it would be a nice connection in that by the Doctor saving the Caecilius family from Vesuvius, a result was that Frobisher was present for Torchwood: Children of Earth incident and the subsequent final outcome of his family. They were both portrayed by Peter Capaldi and so RTD theorised this was a final conclusion for the Caecilius family all these years after being rescued from Vesuvius. Moffat has said time and time again - time can be rewritten. Who's to say that one single tiny event did not result in the Doctor making a different decision and using the Teselecta after River had made a different decision not to shoot him - resulting in all time occurring at once. Phew...
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:15 a.m. CST
The Teselecta is the spanner in the timeline
by SgtHowie
The Doctor and River are special cases in the realm of time travel, being Time Lord and with special sensitivity to these issues and freedom beyond anyone else's wildest dreams. So what REALLY causes the whole mess is the Teselecta. Look at it from the Teselecta's limited point of view. They can't go back to apprehend River until after they know she has committed the crime. So in the Teselecta's view, the view of the whole normal Universe if you like, the Doctor is dead. At this point, the Teselecta has not encountered the Doctor and River. The Doctor has died without any messing from the Teselecta. Then, in trying to punish the murderer, they end up preventing the murder. Of course, there is the view of time travel you state which is that nothing can EVER be changed but that is certainly NOT the Universe of Doctor Who. The Doctor makes frequent reference to certain special events being unchangeable, which means that all the other events ARE changeable. That's what makes the Doctor's escape from his own death such a clever escape. The Doctor's death WAS one of those unchangeable moments, but he still managed to find a way out. I would take Moffat's assertion that the Doctor really was dead as being absolutely true. If not, then there's really nothing clever about surviving, because that was always going to happen, with no genius from the Doctor being employed at all. And that would be extremely dull.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:27 a.m. CST
sgthowie - it was ALWAYS a robot
by glenn_the_frog
I said this at the start of the thread, I guess I'll say it again. There's a lot of confusion about the robot double and the fixed point at the end of last season. A lot of people think the fixed point is "The doctor has to die or future events won't happen right and the universe collapses." and that he cheated the universe with the robot and changed things. That's not the case. He ALWAYS cheated with the robot. The fixed point is "The universe and villains at large have to THINK the doctor died or future events won't happen right and the universe collapses." Him dying was never the important thing. His enemies thinking he was dead is. His personal timeline always had him sending an invite out to himself, letting Amy know, dropping clues, and then having a plan for faking it at the very end once he got all the details. It was a loop, not a diverging line. A future version of himself sending his past version some clues to deal with the problem, before he even knew there was a problem. Pretty much like Blink, only over the course of a season. (Also, the season introduced a dozen different ways to escape that trap as it went along. He had more options than just the robot. There were also gangers and tardises in the lake and the pirate ship healers and such.)
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:28 a.m. CST
royston, would be cool if they went the Caprica route...
by Rebel Scumb
with the teenage girl inside the cylon body, that is actually always a dalek, but her perception of herself is as a hot girl, so we the audience see her as that most of the time. Though I guess all the stairs in the Tardis might be an issue
For the most part, after two or three episodes, the question stopped being *how does the doctor survive dying?* since the show was providing multiple outs... but instead *why does he willingly go to his death?* Him surviving wasn't the intrigue after he'd gotten a new death cheat in almost every episode of the season.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:35 a.m. CST
meldy, re: time being rewritten
by Rebel Scumb
I agree that within the canon of Who, this is certainly possible and has happened in many instances, I just don't agree that the doctors death in season 6 is a case where that happened With the pompeii episode, (that's a cool RTD aside btw), if the doctor is the one who caused the eruption, then technically that family always got saved, because if the doctor didn't go there then it never erupted anyways, but anyways I digress. My point was just when we see a timeloop in a show (DrW or otherwise) where the effect might proceed the cause, unless there is a new intervening element introduced, then its impossible that things would happen any differently because 1) the loop wouldn't exist to begin with if that were the case, and 2) it supposes that somehow the characters can make different choices only because the audience watching the show has larger knowledge to the overall timeline then the characters themselves. Anyways, I suppose at the end of the day in the context of Dr Who it's all wibbly wobbly anyways, but its just the sort of thing I like to debate, because I think it's something where the audience tends to make themselves a factor in the equation. If we just re-edited season 6 into chronological order from the doctor's perspective, which essentially just means starting the season premiere with the scene where 900 year old doctor comes out of the diner washroom much to the Ponds surprise (and River's fake surprise) then watch it from there it seems pretty clear to me that this is the way things always played out.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:37 a.m. CST
So how old is he then?
by Lukowicz
907 or 1100ish? He did still go on a 'farewell tour' after all....
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST
sgthowie you're forgetting something important though
by Rebel Scumb
If the teselecta wasn't there, then the doctor would have died from the poison lipstick, and so the death at lake silencio (real or faked) would never happened anyways, becaue the only reason newly regenerated and still psychotic Melody Pond uses up her regenerations to save the dying doctor is because the Teselecta was there to show her her future as River Song. Therefore again, the teselecta is always part of the chain of events.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:42 a.m. CST
glenn, I think you are part right :-)
by SgtHowie
The fixed point is "The universe and villains at large have to THINK the doctor died or future events won't happen right and the universe collapses." The above (quoted from your post) is ABSOLUTELY the crux of the matter, but I think you are interpreting it wrong. The Doctor's genius revelation during the final episode was that by using the Teselecta and APPEARING to be dead he could maintain the timeline already established by his actually BEING dead. All the possible outs teased earlier (the Flesh and so on) were to keep the audience guessing through the season about how the Doctor would eventually escape his fate.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:46 a.m. CST
because that was always going to happen
by Rebel Scumb
Well whether it is dull I suppose depends on the individuals tastes, but personally it feels like much more of a cheat to me if somehow a person makes different choices in a timeline we've already seen the outcome of. What changes is not the events, but our understanding of them, namely that the doctor wore a special suit. Again, my point is just that it is the audiences perception of the events because we are seeing them out of order, that causes people to suppose that the characters can make different choices 'this time around', when there is no 'this time', there is simply one pass threw that we are perceiving out of order no different then if you pick up a book, and read the last chapter, first then skip back to the beginning, nothing the main characters do while you're reading can change the outcome of that final chapter, because for them time is still proceeding in the normal order uninterrupted, the only variable in the equation is us, the reader. Or in this case the viewer of the show. We think of what is transpiring currently as 'the present' or 'the moment' because we happen to be watching that part of it currently, but that's just the viewers part, not the characters themselves.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:49 a.m. CST
a good example is in the 5th season of LOST
by Rebel Scumb
We have 2 storylines being intercut with each other, Jack/Kate/Hurley in 1967 with the dharma folk, and Locke/Ben in 2007 going to see jacob. In 1967 the characters are trying to enact a plan that will change the events that caused their plane to crash in 2004, altering their fates. But we are also currently seeing events in 2007, after Jack et al went back in time to 1967, so contrary to a lot of fan debate when those episodes were airing, it is IMPOSSIBLE that Jack and the gang in the past succeeded in their plan, because we can clearly see in 2007 that everything played out the way it always did the only reason it feels like there is still a chance that they might succeed, or that these events in 1967 are somehow still in motion, or happening in sync with the events in 2007 is because the show happens to be presenting them that way to the audience. But in the reality of the show itself, all the 1967 stuff happens, then the entire rest of the show for seasons 1-4, THEN the events in 2007 with Locke.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:51 a.m. CST
lukowitz, he'd be 1100ish
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:52 a.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:54 a.m. CST
Many good points about time loops but
by SgtHowie
the thing about the Doctor is that he has a different relationship with time than the rest of the Universe does. Things can happen, and not happen, and happen differently, all at the same time from his point of view (and River's). I think you have to apply a dramatic viewpoint here. The ingenuity of the Doctor's last minute escape is hugely enhanced by making him the active player and not just part of the scenery, which is what you get in the everything always happened that way scenario.
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:55 a.m. CST
sgthowie, re: 'he could maintain the timeline already established by his actually BEING dead'
by Rebel Scumb
Except there is no evidence to support there was ever a timeline like this The doctor would always have had access to the teselecta, and the clues about his eventual fate, River's role in the matter was already in play.
Sept. 3, 2012, noon CST
by Rebel Scumb
i agree the doctor can, and has done things like that in the show, I just don't think that is the case here and the doctor was an active participant, he knew he was going into a deadly scenario, and he planned accordingly the whatever happened happened school of thought doesn't eliminate free will, the characters have free will and make their choices, they ARE active participants, it's just that they have already made those choices No different than watching a non-timey wimey episode out of order. In asylum of the daleks, the doctor makes choices and ultimately he has to leave Oswin behind and she blows up (for argument sake not taking into account any episodes that come after this one) Now if we watched the end of this episode first, and then watch the first half, the doctor is still exhibiting free will and making choices as an active participant, but we know he will not end up saving Oswin, because we are aware of the outcome It doesn't diminish the doctor's heroism or enguinity in any way, and its the same with a timeloop or the s6 situation. The trick like I said before is just to remove us the audience from the equation.
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:01 p.m. CST
otherwise, if the teselecta was the external variable that changed his fate, then like I said the doctor would have died in Berlin 1938 of poison lipstick
by Rebel Scumb
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:01 p.m. CST
Rebel Scumb - What Happened Happened
by meldy
I think you're totally correct that people very much bring their individual opinions to the concept of time travel. Personally I keep coming down on different sides of the argument. Lost had me very much invested in the what happened happened argument (especially since Heroes managed to make a massive cock up of altering history when airing at a similar time). However other films and ideas of altering time, such as Back to the Future and Source Code (to an extent) I find equally appealing. That's why I have also enjoyed the aspect of fixed points in time in the Who universe - it's kind of a happy medium. The Doctor will constantly be making tiny changes to the universe, saving people here, putting others at risk there. He is a true variable in time itself, by having the ability to travel through it. The Timelords made it clear that altering history is something that could be done, but shouldn't on a grand scale. Hence the fixed points. I like to think the universe is inherently stable and works to fix itself to a large extent. Perhaps the Doctor is a part of the universe attempting to fix itself - perhaps the Teselecta is as well. Perhaps infinite numbers of alternate universes are created each time a different decision is made. My whole argument that what happened happened, couldn't have taken place on Lake Silencio was the event of River intentionally missing the Doctor when she was supposed to kill him - resulting in a break down of time. Time itself could not cope with such a massive event shifting from it's fixed point and it allowed the Doctor to use a solution to fix the issue. But perhaps all time happening at once is what had happened in the first place - but surely in terms of something happening - that's a paradox in of itself?!
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:09 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
For the purposes of distinction, in reality if time travel were possible then I personally think it would always be whatever happened happened, I know there is string theory and people more educated than myself on such theoretical things think otherwise, but I don't happen to agree. However in the world of fiction, I'm fine with both the WHH style story AND the back to the future type story where you can go back and change the past I only get bothered when a story tries to use both at once, since they are inherent contradictions to one another. Absolutely for the sake of intereting story telling the BttF style is worthwhile and valid, and a goldmine for interesting scenarios, and I agree there are plenty of times in doctor who where that is the case. Again, I personally am just not of the opinion that the s6 'death' is one of them And you bring up a good point about River intentionally missing. That is the paradox and actually fits perfectly with what sgthowie said earlier, the normal rules don't apply to the doctor and river. From my perspective, the ALLTIMES paradox universe is part of the WHH chain of events since it eventually cancels itself out and the timeline resumes where it was supposed to and the doctor gets shot still Now I'm of the opinion that River always did create the paradox and the paradox was ultimately always undone BECAUSE that is where the doctor and river got married, so if she didn't create the paradox then how could they be married in the previous episodes (which for River took place after lake silencio) LOL I can't think of any other show that would be this interesting or complex to discuss the basic narrative structure of!
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST
It's ultimately about dramatic value
by SgtHowie
For a one off episode such as Blink - where the Doctor actually IS part of the scenery - then the time loop gag is fine and dandy. As the payoff for an entire season-long mystery, it's just not good enough. I don't think Moffat would do that. And the only(?) evidence we have from the man himself says that it is NOT a time loop. Moffat said the Doctor really IS dead in episode 1. Which categorically means the whole story arc is NOT a time loop. He could be lying, but if he was then it just diminishes the cleverness of his own story, and diminishes the brilliantness of the Doctor himself. Maybe next time a site or mag says Send us your questions for Steven Moffat, someone will ask if the Doctor died and then didn't die beside the lake. :-)
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST
Rebel Scumb / Sgthowie
by meldy
I think we need the Moff in here to sort this one out! But of course, the Moff lies... I do think it's endlessly fascinating that these ideas can be considered in so much depth and can spark such strong feelings and reasoned arguments. Not many shows can do this! Moffat clearly likes his chicken and egg paradoxes (Blink and Time Crash are perfect examples - well just perfect generally), where in order for something to have been solved a future message is required in the past. Those ideas speak of a what happened happened scenario. One can't exist without the other. But Silencio presents a different event at the same point in time - in which case when did that event happen? If we witness two different outcomes of the same event both cannot be true along a single timeline. Though if it causes time to all occur at once - Who knows... Merrick! Arrange a question answer session with Mr Moffat forthwith!
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST
Teselecta or Doctor - The Doctors Timeline
by James Grinnell
It's an interesting discussion about whether it was always the teselecta at lake silencio so here's my thoughts for what they're worth. I think we have to look at the events from two points of view, or from 2 different timelines. The first timeline is, for want of a better description, history. It's what the history books will always and have always shown. The second is the doctors timeline. Because of his constant mucking about with history, the Doctor now remembers things that never happened. For example, in the waters of Mars he chooses to rescue the survivors and take the, back to earth and so, at the end of the episode, we see the history books re-written to show they died on earth and not on Mars. The history timeline will always show this, but the Doctor will always remember and know what happened without his intervention, even if that is no longer historically true. The same applies for lake silencio. The first time it happens, he dies, but in inviting himself to witness it, he prepares for a change in the timeline that is true and historic for everyone except the Doctor, who also remembers how it originally happened. That was a lot more rambling than I meant it to be, hope it makes some sort of sense.
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:44 p.m. CST
good point meldy, and really the great thing is that the show invites such a thoughtful debate!
by Rebel Scumb
It's great that the way it's presented can leave room for both mine and sgthowie's perspective, I like when a show, especially a scifi one leaves things open to interpretation
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:46 p.m. CST
interested 3rd party,
by Rebel Scumb
good point. So if the doctor did die the first time around, what happened differently to alter that chain of events? SOmething else I was thinking about to, is Dorium and the Silence are aware that the doctor is supposed to reveal his name on the fields of Transelore, which will cause silence to fall. So that's future history that the Silence is trying to prevent, so wouldn't that also indicate that despite the doctors 'death' as a fixed point, that ultimately they don't succeed?
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:48 p.m. CST
Asylum AI figure:89
by SgtHowie
If you don't know, the AI is the appreciation index for TV shows, taken from a survey of 5000 people. 89 is an exceptionally good score, so the Moff is clearly doing something right. Personally, I much preferred the previous two season openers but the three real life people whose opinions I heard today were all very positive. And those people are aged 42, 14, and 3. Which emphasises a fact about the show which I think is often forgotten in much fan criticism of the show; this series is not like Star Trek, or Lost, or whatever is the US flavour of the month right now, Doctor Who has to appeal to EVERYONE, and quite remarkably actually does so!
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:49 p.m. CST
and I meant to say @ interested_third_party
by SgtHowie
I agree with your ramble. I think. :-)
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:50 p.m. CST
sgthowie re: dramatic value
by Rebel Scumb
I guess for me simply arguing that it isn't a good enough dramatic payoff (which is a valid point) assumes the fact that the Moff couldn't dissappoint on that level, which isn't really evaluating the scenario itself, but just the expectations on the talent of the writer. Personally I think the fact that so much of the story (whether time was changed or not) relies on the fact that many of the scenes the doctor and river were lying is really lazy writing. But within the context of the story its established that they were lying, I can't ignore that just because it weakens the impact of the payoff to the story. Likewise you may feel that a timeloop is not strong enough to support a season long story, but that doesn't make it not true. Just my perspective anyways.
Sept. 3, 2012, 12:59 p.m. CST
by Rebel Scumb
Wow that is really good! I think of the past 3 season openers, Impossible astronaut is probably my favorite, WHile I agree with what many have said that Asylum has a lot of internal logic issues, overall it's a good start to a new season and loads of fun It is pretty crazy to think that doctor who has gone from this cult show that many people had never seen despite its 26 year original run, to now such a mainstream success!
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST
Rebel scum
by James Grinnell
The way I see it, which is of course almost certainly wrong (at least in this version of history) is that by inviting himself to view his death, he makes him aware of it do that when he meets the teselecta, he first of all sees it as an opportunity to discover the truth about lake silencio afternhis companions suspiscious behaviour, and then as a way to cheat that moment. It's the Doctor interfering in his own timeline in the same way as he has with other peoples. In terms of Dorium and the silence's knowledge of the fields of traseclore, their knowledge of it would suggest that they were doomed to failure. However, if they are also time travellers (which I'm not sure has been specifically proven?) then you could argue that if they travelled from after whenever the fields of Transilore is to before it, they could alter the historic timeline in the same way the doctor does and in doing so, kill him and prevent the Doctor from ever arriving there. Of course at this point you get into multiple timelines where anything and everything is possible, the way I like to simplify is by saying that the show follows the doctors timeline, which it does, and so that is the true timeline of the show and any rewritten history then seems to make sense in the context of the show. As for everything else, it's fun to talk and speculate about in the same way that any talk about time travel, paradoxes and Mcfly type incest is, but probably just confuses things a lot in terms of the show itself... maybe.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST
3rd party & sgthowie
by Rebel Scumb
True (re: 3rd parties previous post) I'm with you on that to an extent, but if the there is an original version of events, pre-Doctor interfering where the doctor actually does die, how then did that original doctor know to go to Lake Silencio in the first place? If the argument is that he didn't have access to the teselecta the first time threw, and was resolved to his fate, so sent out the invitations then arrived for the picnic with friends, walked over to the astronaut, was shot and killed, what made him go to Lake Silencio to begin with on that particular date and time? He would have had to have known about his own death to be resigned to its inevitability, teselectca or no. And if that were the case, wouldn't we be right back where we started with the doctor looking for a loophole to cheat death?
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:12 p.m. CST
Off topic, but has anyone considered how they will address the final encounter with River Song?
by Rebel Scumb
When they eventually get to it? We know what the doctor's first/River's last encounter was (the library) We know what River's first encounter was with the doctor (her birth at demons run) But there has to be a time which was the last time the doctor in his sequence of events encounters River. before season6 I presumed they'd go with her birth or childhood or something so they could milk the drama for that, but they've made use of those (to great effect!) already, so I'm wondering what it will be or how the doctor will even know it's the last time he is seeing her?
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST
Rebel scum: confused but...
by James Grinnell
If we take it that we're following the 900ish old doctors timeline, we never actually see the first time the 1100ish old doctor goes to lake silencio, so we don't know why or how he originally went there. It is definitely a flaw in my argument, I could suggest that as it's a fixed point in time the Doctor was always going to be there (maybe a case of sexy always taking him to where he needs to be?!) but that's just conjecture on my part to fit my theory rather than anything provable.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:18 p.m. CST
by meldy
I think it's clear that the Doctor is able to recall all possible outcomes from all events - be it the Waters of Mars, or even the existence, or otherwise, of Rory. Memory is also clearly important to the Doctor's vey existence as well, since it saved him after the events of the Pandorica opening. I feel memory will also be a key in dealing with how Clara / Oswin joins as a companion come Christmas. If not, then perhaps greater clarification will be offered with regards to events and their causes (if Clara is indeed Oswin) and a not strictly linear progression of time. With an aside to the audience appreciation index, it would be fascinating to know how many of those are actually aware of the future of the Oswin character with regards to the show. Very few I would guess. Makes it all the more satisfying...
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:21 p.m. CST
3rd party
by Rebel Scumb
No that makes sense, I think at that point it just becomes a difference of opinion. There could be an original version of the 1100yr doctor who in an unseen version of events ultimately ends up there to get shot and sends out the invitiations. and I appreciate all the good points you and Howie made, gives me a lot to chew on the next time I watch series 6, a new perspective. Anyways gotta run, laundries done!
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:32 p.m. CST
More memory
by James Grinnell
Couldnt agree more melody. It's something I love about the way Steven Moffatt's gone about his larger story lines. I, probably like most Doctor who fans (or for that matter, fans of any of the shows and films that get talked about on this site), believe that stories, real or made up, are powerful things. That the Doctor, through the Moffs stories, and to be fair in many who stories before that, has made use of that power to set things right, makes me love the show even more and I agree that it's again going to play a big part of this seasons story arc. No idea how yet, but that's where the fun begins.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:33 p.m. CST
by James Grinnell
Sorry, meant to say 'couldn't agree more meldy'. Damn autocorrect.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:34 p.m. CST
Meetings with River
by meldy
I think it's almost a certainty that River will meet with other incarnations in the 50th anniversary - she talks about having a guide to all of them, and she needs more time with Ten, in order that her meeting with him in the library is not her only interaction with him. She would know him as being the doctor from a previous encounter. She talks about her meeting him prior to the library when she was given the sonic screwdriver. At some point I hope that will at least be referred to. Perhaps when Matt decides to bow out, there can be some scene perhaps just alluding to him making that trip to say his quiet goodbye to River.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:40 p.m. CST
v'shael - Amy raising Mel in the orphanage
by DoctorTom
The photo they showed of her was the one taken shortly after birth, at Demon's Run. I do think Amy's going to end up raising Mel, but I'm not convinced it will be at the orphanage. I think it will more likely be raising Mels, finding her in New York and eventually getting her to Leadworth.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:41 p.m. CST
That was a good prequel
by DoctorTom
It's not just at iTunes and on youtube - Amazon has it in their Doctor Who Season 7 folder for streaming - for free. I'm curious about whether we're going to see the mysterious hooded figure again during the series.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
The last time the Doctor and River met (prior to Silence in the Library), it wasn't necessarily Doc10. All she says is that he showed up in a suit and with a new haircut, and that he cried. It could be any version of the Doctor. And I don't believe there is any other reference to her having met Doc10 other than in the Library - she recognises his eyes as being the youngest shes ever seen them - which means that was the earliest point in the lives of any of the Doctors. <p> That's how I interpret it anyway!
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Also... in the Library she would have recognised him as the Doc because she's part Time Lord.... and supposedly one TL always knows another.
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST
Rebel - the Doctor's last appearance with River
by DoctorTom
It could very well be at the Fields of Trenzalore. What I suspect, though, is that the last appearance will be timey wimey. I see her being there when the 11th Doctor regenerates. The regenerated Doctor gives her a sonic screwdriver after that. Cut to a closeup of the sonic screwdriver, it has all green bars glowing, indicating no loss of the personality implant. Cut to flashbacks from The Forest of the Dead, with River dying, then David Tennant rushing back later with her sonic, power bars being depleted, plugging the sonic into CAL. After that, we get a flashback in Cal, with River and the others. We see River tucking her children in and leaving the bedroom. THEN, we get to see what wasn't shown before - she goes into the next room where she snuggles up with the 11th Doctor. Everybody lives, even the 11th Doctor after he "dies".
Sept. 3, 2012, 1:55 p.m. CST
wow doctortom...
by Seph_J
...I like that. I like it a lot. Although with half-human Doc 10 running about on Earth, and CAL-Doc11 existing within the Library, it might get to be a bit too much!
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:03 p.m. CST
by meldy
I took Rivers comments to 10 about their meeting before the library as being with a different Doctor. But my point is I want her to have another interaction with 10 at some point, since she clearly had some connection with 10 beyond him being the Doctor. If she is aware of the Doctor's incarnations, she most know 10 is an early one on her timelines interactions with the Doctor. She can't meet any Doctor pre10, otherwise 10 would recall her in the library (right?), but she must have met 10 at another time, otherwise she would know that any meeting with 10, or indeed any prior to 11, signifies the end of it all. Maybe she'll still be around when 12 finally arrives - and with less of the age difference! Hope I'm clear with all that!
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:06 p.m. CST
If River had met 10 more than once...
by glenn_the_frog
then she'd know pretty much instantly when he showed up in the library that "Oh, its the young one that doesn't know me at all yet, well, time to be secretive" rather than having to spend a couple minutes talkign to him and staring into his eyes figuring it out. Even with Smith Doctor in the first few appearances she was still feeling him out to figure out where in his timeline he was and realizing "Oh yeah, you're still really early in the timeline." In the library, she knew it was a man stepping out of a tardis with a sonic screwdriver that came when she signaled... it was the doctor, all she needed to know. He could have been the 12th regeneration for all she knew when he first showed up. She probbaly sticks around and at least meets the next regeneration once or twice, so she can be used to the idea of more than one regeneration being her doctor, otherwise 11 would be the only one that's hers. Even meeting a bunch of them for the 50th anniversary she still won't have much exposure to any of the younger ones. Obviously, the PLAN had been for her to run into Tennant a couple more times, (I assume Smith's first season would have been much the same even if Tennant had stuck around) but that's not how the actor schedules worked out.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:07 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
Sorry, I missed something there - WHY would meeting Doc10 signify the end for her?
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:07 p.m. CST
by meldy
I like it, but I can't see Matt and Alex snuggling really! 11 doesn't have the romanticism aspect that 10 and 8 had. Perhaps she ends up snuggling with 10. Just throw another 10 in the universe for good measure...
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST
sgthowie et al, Lake Silencio
by DoctorTom
the events that happened at Lake Silencio always happened at Lake Silencio. The (younger) Doctor still needs to figure out how he can "die" there while still being able to be around after that, so it doesn't take away any of the drama that it's always happened this way. We just have to wait to see how the Doctor is going to be clever and work his way out of it. There actually are two versions of the thing going on, but none of them involve the Doctor actually dying. You have the argument between the two. We don't hear it in The Impossible Astronaut, but because of later events we know what's happening. River doesn't want to shoot the Doctor, but the Doctor's arguing that she does need to shoot him. He has already implemented his plan. The argument goes on, then River misses. All time collapses on Earth. We get the events on the parallel Earth, River looks into the Doctor's eye, and realizes that the Doctor's wearing a Teselecta suit. At that point she touches the Teselecta suit. Time uncollapses, and people go back to just before the fixed point was broken. They still remember, though. River remembers time breaking, and also remembers the Doctor in the Teselecta suit, so she goes ahead and shoots the "Doctor". We see the same arguments both times. It's evident from the attitudes. It always happened that way, the Doctor in a Doctor suit. River knows this, because she's been at the event twice - on the beach and in the astronaut suit. We've already seen that River loves the Doctor enough to break the universe for him. If there had been a time where that had actually been the Doctor then one of two things happened. The first option is that they wouldn't have had the bit with the Emperor Churchill universe, and River wouldn't know about what happens breaking a fixed point in time. Given that, she would have been doing her damndest to make sure the Doctor didn't die back there, and wouldn't have been all coy about it. There'd have been at the very least a note to tell him not to be in his own body when he shows up at Lake Silencio again in a couple of hundred years time. The other option is that she doesn't shoot, time breaks, and the events happened in Emperor Churchill Land - twice. The first time when there's a regular Doctor, and the second time when she has to do it again with the Doctor in a Doctor Suit. If all times happen at once, then both times through would happen. I doubt even she'd risk breaking a fixed point twice.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST
by meldy
Oops - sorry for getting your name wrong earlier - clearly can't read! It was my impression from River talking about having a guide to all of his incarnations that she would know their relative positions in the doctors timeline. She would know from her experiences that 11 was still relatively new to her at some points. Still coming to grips with just who she was. By meeting an earlier incarnation she must be realising that her journeys with him are ending based on her experiences. I was just wanting the library to not be her only interaction with 10 - then the shock of meeting an earlier 10 and what that means has greater impact. I'm willing to bet Mr Moffat would have liked to do more of River and 10 together. So she can age him by his eyes, not purely by his face.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:16 p.m. CST
glenn_the_frog, River at the Library
by DoctorTom
There is, of course, the possibility that River did know somewhat, even if having met the 10th more than once. She just felt the need to drop a few clues about where the Doctor might be seeing her again, so that later the Doctor can go "hmmm, we haven't had the party at Asgard yet" or "okay, This is the wreck of the Byzantium that she mentioned". I would think it's more likey she had met the 10th more than once, since she didn't explicitly say "that's a different body for you, sweetie".
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST
Re meldy's point on Oswin & audience
by SgtHowie
I meant to mention that earlier, I do doubt that most viewers even realised that Oswin is set to be the next companion. The couple of people I talked to about the episode loved it but were not aware at all of any significance to JLC beyond this episode, even though they know Amy is due to depart soon. Regular viewers are in for a surprise when that Dalek girl turns up again!
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST
Another thing to remember about River
by DoctorTom
Oh look, it's the Loch Ness Monster. And there he is, this time with teeth and curls.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:22 p.m. CST
doc tom / meldy
by Seph_J
I find the fact that Doc10 only met River once really quite poignant. The fact that he *dies* without finding out any more about her is heartbreakingly sad to me. But the reason why I don't think that was the only time that Doc10 and River met are the lines she says in the Library about Doc10 not being *her* Doctor. He even says "I am the Doctor" to which she replies "not yet you're not", or something like that. Granted that could be interpreted as being that he simply didn't know her well enough yet and they hadn't established a rapport and relationship....
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:25 p.m. CST
by Seph_J
But the reason why I DO think that was the only time that Doc10 and River met
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:25 p.m. CST
doctortom-and yet most of the events she mentioned, we've now seen with 11
by glenn_the_frog
When the library was *written* the intent was obviously for the story to continue with Tennant. It didn't work out that way, so some of the dynamics and perceptions of that ep have changed. Since that is her final outing, she knows that at some point she meets early 11, and he has *no* experience or comfort with her at all. (Her timeline is, largely, going backwards to his. Not always, but largely. Hence her being so upset that their first kiss is also their last. Let's Kill Hitler is pretty much the only out of sequence event thus far.)
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST
doctortom really knows his shit!
by speckled_hen_drinker
i find myself scanning thru these comments to see what he says these days......
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST
Wibbly-wobbley, timey-wimey.
by Royston Lodge
There's no use trying to figure out the temporal logistics of Doctor Who. They've said on more than one occasion that the true nature of time is incomprehensible to humans. It's a cheat, sure, but so be it.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:32 p.m. CST
In other words, it's Hypertime.
by Royston Lodge
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:32 p.m. CST
Comments on Oswin
by DoctorTom
we've all postulated on different ways that Oswin could be de-Dakelified, but there's one way in particular that he might use. The Doctor talked about Nanogenes and the nanocloud. The last time Moffat used nanogenes was in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, where the Chulan nanogenes could heal bodies and even rebuild missing limbs. I'm sure a clever girl who could rewrite nanoclouds might get them to undo the Dalek genetic manipulation, then get healing nanogenes to restore her body. One other thing about that possibly being the same Oswin. We've seen that Moffat likes having the Doctor meet companions before they're companions then have them join up later. Amy met him first as a child, met again 12 years later then didn't get to be a companion until 2 years after that. Rory first met the Doctor when the Doctor stole his phone to see why he was taking pictures of people on the ground when everybody else was in the sky. He didn't become a companion until several episodes later. River's timeline is completely out of order compared to the Doctor's, but the Doctor knew her as a baby well before she became a companion/wife/recurring irritant to him (yeah, I know, some people would say listing the last 2 things were redundant...). So far, the only character of his to have met the Doctor and become a companion right away (so far) is Captain Jack, and there's still 2 things about that: 1) Moffat didn't have control of Captain Jack after his story, 2) I wouldn't at all be surprised to have Moffat do a story at some point dealing with the 2 years of memory loss that Captain Jack had during his Time Agency days, and that we'll find out that the Doctor is responsible for that too.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:33 p.m. CST
in your opinion doctortom..
by speckled_hen_drinker
do you think we are yet to see the ep where we see the doc go back to 1963 to plant the hand of omega used in remembrance..? will it be MS or a future doc..... i hope i haven't committed a faux pas and this has already been answered from canon.. i don't have many of the classic dvds.....
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:34 p.m. CST
thank you, speckled_hen_drinker
by DoctorTom
I'm glad that my ramblings can be entertaining on occasion.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:38 p.m. CST
Hand of Omega
by DoctorTom
I think we've already seen that. The implication in Remembrance of the Daleks was that the 1st Doctor took it with him when he left Gallifrey, even though it hadn't been mentioned in any other stories until the 25th season. At the funeral parlor the suggestion was that it was a much older man who made the original arrangements, so if it wasn't Hartnell it would need to be someone else old or passing himself off as old. I don't think they'll try to retcon something in further and have a 3rd incarnation of the Doctor be involved.
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:40 p.m. CST
Now, where we might see some oblique Multi-Doctor shenanigans
by DoctorTom
We see scenes from the end of the Five Doctors - Rassilon asking the Doctors there if they want immortality too. They refuse, we get brief bits with them going to the different TARDISes. It's quiet for a moment. Then, Matt Smith comes around a corner. "Okay, Rassilon, now that they're gone, we need to have a little chat about something that's going to be called The Time War." (cue opening credits)
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:40 p.m. CST
On the theme of memory
by Matt
What if the Doctor loses his memory, then meets Oswin earlier in her time stream, not knowing her eventual fate, even though we do?
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:42 p.m. CST
by doctortom
by speckled_hen_drinker
now you say that, i suddenly remember! thankyou for that, you are indeed the man!
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:43 p.m. CST
if doctortom says it, its probably true!
by speckled_hen_drinker
i so hope i don't get on your nerves!
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:45 p.m. CST
ok the wine may be guiding my thoughts a little....
by speckled_hen_drinker
Sept. 3, 2012, 2:49 p.m. CST
So the new companion's a bit of a smarmy bitch, eh?
by FeralAngel
Don't like her. At all. Dump her, Rory and keep Pond.
Sept. 3, 2012, 3 p.m. CST
new companion...
by speckled_hen_drinker
ok. my dalek companion idea has either been disregarded entirely or simply ignored.... so, assuming we don't see a new Rivercentric type idea where we have seen the new companion's end from the beginning... what is to happen..? how's about.. terrible idea #2: i think, conceptually Oswin's (Clara's..?) explanation will be simple.. we may not understand it yet, but it will be simple afterwards to grasp (reverse girlfriend, the doctor lied etc) so... actually i have no idea! i really though by the time i finished typing i would have something.. i really don't..! dammit!
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST
So, Gaiman's on the third draft of his next Doctor Who script?
by DoctorTom
This just might be a story for Season 8, or one of the specials. I don''t know if they've got the time in their plan for it to be a Season 7 story, though it's certainly possible that it might be one of the late ones.
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST
So, Gaiman's on the third draft of his next Doctor Who script?
by speckled_hen_drinker
where did you hear this?
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:16 p.m. CST
royston lodge is right, and other things...
by Jayemel
-There is no such thing as time travel, and the Doctor is a "Time Lord," so arguing about the rules of time travel is stupid. -How can on ONE HAND Oswin be a smug bitch for having confidence (intellectually and sexually) and... -...on the OTHER HAND Moffat writes offensive/shallow female characters? -Three Things: 1. Who in Doctor Who comes off better than the Doctor? No one, and that's kind of the point. 2. Name a strong male character in the new show run besides the Doctor and Captain Jack. You can't, and those two are both main characters on major science fiction shows. 3. Stop complaining about Moffat and sexuality. Sexuality is a normal part of human life, and have you seen Coupling? It's all his style. -This new companion has the potential to be the best yet. I wasn't sure it was her, but was like "She better be the new companion, as she's awesome." She had wit. She had confidence. She had intelligence. She had looks. What's not to love?
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST
speckled_hen_drinker - Gaiman's script
by DoctorTom
he mentioned it when he accepted the Hugo for The Doctor's Wife last night. Doctor Who News Page (amongst other places) has it listed: http://www.doctorwhonews.net/
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:24 p.m. CST
'Oswin' is just one of the names Brian Blessed calls Edmund Blackadder!
by workshed
Just thought I'd mention it... FRESH HORSES!!!
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:31 p.m. CST
by DoctorTom
"There is no such thing as time travel" - there are many scientists out there who would disagree with you.
Sept. 3, 2012, 3:43 p.m. CST
by Jayemel
Well they're wrong, though maybe they can spell my name right.
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:04 p.m. CST
Time Travel not existing?
by meldy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe And that's Feynman!!
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:09 p.m. CST
Of course time travel exists
by SgtHowie
Time travel would enable different observers to experience the same events in a different order. And that effect is a definite property of the universe in REALITY, not science fiction. Unfortunately we need to scale it to the size of a time machine before we can go travelling! But it is not at all fantasy that events happen out of sequence for different observers.
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:11 p.m. CST
The Prequel to AOTD was great! Hope, they put it together with the episode on DVD/BD. SPOILER!
by wtriker1701
Those 2 1/2 minutes should start the episode - I'd like it that way. With Pond Life, I'm not so sure... but I guess, it would also work as a quick exposition to the episode. I'm not sure, what to make of Oswin, yet. And HOW she will fit in as a companion. A Dalek companion? Might be possible, doesn't it? With all the Daleks having forgotten about The Doctor (The Predator) - I'm sure, they will return to their state as arch-enemy. That might actually tie in with the 50th Anniversary Special. And now I'm back to Silence In The Library - maybe, if we get JLC as a human companion - they might find a trick to 'un'save River... or not...?
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:18 p.m. CST
meldy: Yabbut, Feynman sold poisoned milk to schoolchildren.
by Royston Lodge
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:20 p.m. CST
by DoctorTom
sorry about spelling the name wrong. Just saying "they're wrong" doesn't really add to the discussion. And, as for being wrong, time dilation itself proves that your statement is wrong. It's certainly possible to travel into the future, at least. And they haven't been able to disprove Robert Forward's ideas yet. Or the possibility of wormholes. Granted, some theories won't let you travel further back than to the time that the time machine is first built, but time travel back and forth after that is possible in that theories. Somebody born 600 years later, if they had that same time machine, could travel 600 years into the past.
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:28 p.m. CST
That prequel encapsulates all that enrages me about Moffat.
by Octavian
It is brilliant. Why can't the rest be to that standard? We only see a few glimpses of that quality Who during each series.
Sept. 3, 2012, 4:38 p.m. CST
royston lodge
by meldy
I think you're thinking of Abraham Lincoln. Remember death only happens to bad people...
Sept. 3, 2012, 5:18 p.m. CST
2 questions about the prequel
by Rebel Scumb
1) Is the hooded figure meant to be one of the headless monks? I presumed so, but I've seen all sorts of speculation regarding their true identity 2) when the doctor realizes the cafe isn't real, he appears in some creepy castle type place, and says 'oh! not this place again!' or something like that. Does anyone recognize where that is supposed to be?
Sept. 3, 2012, 5:49 p.m. CST
Excellent episode, got the iTunes season pass so the prequel was a cool surprise!
by sunspot_mike
Awesome to see the new companion so early too, I had no idea on that one, so I'm fairly amazed no one spoiled it, even on Twitter. It felt like it was a lot longer than a usual episode, so well done on the story. They usually feel too compact, but this one was just about perfect. Also, it's just nice to see everyone back and firing on all cylinders. Overall, this washed the taste of the Christmas Special right out of my mouth and the "Doctor Who"'s didn't feel weird because that's how we ended last season. That's going to be the story arc for probably the next year and a half (culminating in the anniversary) and it was set up all the way in (probably my favorite Doctor Who story ever, old or new) "River's Run/Forest of the Dead", so I think they've acceptably seeded that storyline. So glad to have my favorite show back!
Sept. 3, 2012, 5:54 p.m. CST
by speckled_hen_drinker
that is proper ace! love the doctor's wife!
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:07 p.m. CST
The problem is really not just 'Skaro', though
by dderidex
The s1 episode 'Dalek' was so poignant because of the scale of loss that was represented by the Time War. It felt dark - the Doctor was the last Time Lord, and all his people and Gallifrey were lost. Yet with their lives they had bought a galaxy free of the Daleks, so at least there was meaning. And here is a last Dalek... Well, that story and the others have expanded a bit on how many Daleks are left, but still... In THIS story, it's not just 'Skaro' left, is it? With the odd Dalek that has survived or new generation that has been created...it's ALL of the Daleks. Skaro, their fleet, Daleks from EVERY period are in the Parliament, even the very "Asylum" planet point to the entire Dalek species - from the 'rumored' depths of their past (in the "Asylum" world) throughout - every last representation of them, alive and well. It really kind of changes the whole perspective of the Time War. The Time Lords didn't WIN at all - they got wiped from the galaxy to the (nearly) last man, and the Daleks didn't even suffer a speed bump??
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:25 p.m. CST
by DoctorTom
don't forget that in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday you had the Ark spitting out all the Dalek prisoners from the Time War. Just because we only saw the bronze/gold ones doesn't mean that some of the older ones weren't in there also. Now, they all got sucked into the Void, but we saw Davros and his batch of Daleks breaching the Void to use his Reality Bomb on all the universes. In fact, the Cybermen in The Next Doctor made mention of falling from the Void. It's certainly possible that some of the Daleks stuck in the Void popped out at different time periods also. The Daleks we saw in Victory of the Daleks wouldn't have known about them until later, after they made the iDaleks. Of course, Skaro being around might be a clue to the Time Lords being around also. For all we know, the cracks in time we saw in Season 5 swallowed up the end of the Time War (time locked or not), and things turned out differently in the post Big Bang II universe. The Time Lords might be out there, just shrouding themselves from the Doctor (and probably the rest of the universe).
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:28 p.m. CST
Or, even simpler than that
by DoctorTom
the Daleks in the Asylum were all locked up before the Time War. Since they didn't participate (and presumably no Time War battles took place near there) the planet just didn't get Time Locked. It's still around for the newer Daleks to find. It looked to me like the Parliament was pretty much all newer Dalek models, the old ones from all the eras being stuck in the Asylum.
Sept. 3, 2012, 6:45 p.m. CST
by Kauzi Sezso
Gaiman mentioned in his Hugo acceptance speech that he was on his third draft. I was at the Hugo ceremony.
Sept. 3, 2012, 8:04 p.m. CST
Kauzi sezso
by DoctorTom
Gaiman have any other nifty things to say at the convention?
Sept. 3, 2012, 9:48 p.m. CST
Was the Dalek Oswin ever really human though?
by bongo dummy
As much as this may seem like a theory, there are more questions than any solid answers which follow. Apologies if someone has already mentioned some or all of these things. One, from most of what was shown of Oswin's environment, of her/its mind, there was no evidence that said she was an astronaut. She should have been in her space suit and instead wore a dress. Now, the dress may have been convenient enough if she had been there a year but she seemed to believe she was still in her escape pod, right? The other astronauts that were still in the ship had all died and were decomposing. Yet the guy outside of the ship hadn't been inside for an entire year? Or even more than a day? Yet even the Outside Astronaut had been infected/transformed like the decomposed ones inside the ship? I don't buy the notion that Oswin's transformation truly occurred. I can't see one astronaut out of all of them going alone nor does it seem likely that astronaut would be transformed like the Doctor explains. The others were like the robed lady who was a hybrid Dalek. She retained human form. So if Oswin had been transformed, why didn't she just look like herself, decomposed or convincingly alive? Why was she completely encased/housed within a Dalek Pepper Pot? The Dalek Oswin was in chains. The Daleks don't seem like the most hands on species. They put chains on a Dalek like it was shown on her/it? The others that were shown to be have the chains wrapped around them. Sure, it makes sense if it was a design or directors choice but... Dalek Oswin was alone and locked within a room. In any other asylum, wouldn't that mean she/it was dangerously crazy for being in solitary confinement? After all, D.O. did constantly state "she" was a genius. Shouldn't we presume "she" was a mad genius? If I had to venture deep into theory, I'd say somehow that Dalek was just mad and causing problems. Somehow, it assumed the identity of Oswin. What we as an audience saw was the self-image of the Dalek. No other character saw Her as it saw itself. Maybe part of the hint is that the Dalek had the sense "she" had been there for a year, while the other astronaut thought they had been there for two days and he had been outside for two hours. So, 12 escape pods lost, only two really accounted for; a Dalek that can hack anything, presumable even the escape pod's/a ship's manifest. If only something smaller than a space ship could penetrate the forcefield, like the escape pods or a small rescue mission of Three people, maybe the real Oswin escaped before ever entering the atmosphere? If I had to try and read what seemed to be important tea leaves, I would say that Memory, remembering and forgetting are important clues to the episode and possibly the entire upcoming story arc or stories. If the Xmas special is based upon "It's a Wonderful Life" then that makes the theme seem even more likely.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:06 p.m. CST
@Rebel Scum re: River's exit
by Jeffrey Possberg
I recall scanning through the extras on the Series 6 DVD release and finding a very brief one of Matt Smith prepping the modified sonic screwdriver (seen in "Forest of the Dead") and taking it along for River Song. I'm not sure if this was intended to be that final link or just a little bit of insurance in case either of the actors were suddenly unavailable to close out the arc.
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:13 p.m. CST
@Rebel Scum re: River's exit...again...
by Jeffrey Possberg
Series 6 Disc 3 extra: Night and the Doctor: "The Final Night" to be specific (my apologies...did not have the modified screwdriver, but they did discuss this as being the final Doctor / River meeting prior to her meeting Tennant's doctor)
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:14 p.m. CST
@Rebel Scum re: River's exit...again...one last time
by Jeffrey Possberg
Last Night" not "The Final Night
Sept. 3, 2012, 10:26 p.m. CST
So happy the opening titles no longer say Doctor DW Who.
by The Transformed Man
Sept. 3, 2012, 11:56 p.m. CST
Is it too early to get overexcited about dinosaurs on a spaceship?
by Kathryn Gail
--because I don't think I can wait until Friday to officially get overexcited about dinosaurs on a spaceship. Seeing dinosaurs and taking a shot at Hitler are near the top of my list of things I wouldn't want to pass up if I could time travel, so this show has been really paying off for me lately. Only. . . I could swear when I first heard about the dinosaur episode, someone said "ankylosaurus" (I don't recall where, though), but I haven't seen any of those in trailers yet, and my inner righteously indignant 6-year-old is getting nearly as wound up about that as she did about not getting any actual mammoths (just verbal references to them) in The Wedding of River Song. I'm getting out my crayons, here comes the illustrated hate mail Mr. Chibnall. . . (no no no just kidding, put in whatever dinosaurs you like, they're all welcome!).
Sept. 4, 2012, 5:03 a.m. CST
My predictions for next four episodes
by The Keminrun
Based on how Moffat writes, I predict that Oswin (in some form or another) will show up in each of the next 4 episodes. I also am sure that the characters dying in Angels take Manhattan will certainly be Rory and Amy, but they will die "nicely". That is, they will be sent back in time by the Angels and live out their long lives together, only "dying" to us because the Doctor decides they are better off there and leaves them to live and die in peace. We saw in Asylum that they were put in danger because of their prior association with the Doctor and he has already (unsuccessfully) tried to let them go once.
Sept. 4, 2012, 7:21 a.m. CST
keminrun I do think we will see her again
by HornOrSilk
But I'm not sure if we will in every episode
Sept. 4, 2012, 7:31 a.m. CST
Niven's Law Of Time Travel (a.k.a. Novikov's self consistency principle a.k.a Hawking's Chronology Protection Conjecture a.k.a the Blinovitch Limitation Effect) + the Sonic HAT
by veteran_of_mu
Spectacular docback to date, very well done all of you. You should be proud of yourselves. Also love the HAT on Doctom. Now Niven's Law says: In any universe in which time travel is possible, it will never be invented. Niven's basic idea (and Novikov's, Hawking's and presumably Blinovitch's) is that if backwards time travel is possible it will happen over and over until the entire course of the universe settles into a stable attractor in which time proceeds in a sequential fashion with the exception of closed time-like curves. Hawking limits these to a quantum scale. But there's a competing idea, Chronological Censorship, that suggests any such closed time-like curves at a macro scale will form event horizons that naturally hide them from the rest of the universe. Now then regarding Lake Silencio if you watch the scenes in TIA and TWORS carefully you will see that all 3 times the Doc is shot are subtly different. So while the Moff lies I side with Sgthowie here - we are intentionally seeing 3 different closed time-like curves depicted, one of which causes the entire universe to go chaotic - qua http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/ClassicLogisticMap/ - experienced by the participants as everything happening at once. I admit this comes down to equating cinematography with etiology, but when it comes to closed time-like curves I can't feel too guilty about that. Just to drive the final nail in the coffin of the que-sera-sera folks, (Porridge: kiss her what?) let's consider the matter of The Sonic Screwdriver. As we know: 1) It's not Sonic 2) It's not a Screwdriver And some of you will recall last year's HAT on this same subject. The Sonic is nothing less than the Doc's fountain pen. As the ultimate Deus Ex Machina the Doc's technology is all about rewriting time. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_Ry8J_jdw). That's exactly how the sonic works. It increases the wibbliness until the local corner of the universe wobbles into a slightly altered path in which the whatever-it-is achieves a state of whatever-you-want. Hence point-and-think. Which is why it doesn't work on wood. Because wood grows over a long period of time it is much more difficult for the Sonic to alter. But a lock which was manufactured and assembled in just a few minutes is easy to unlock and an answering machine, which could have an intermittent bug, even moreso. Finally on Oswin as a Dalek companion ... she could always be hooked up inside a tesselecta - a Dalek in an Oswin suit. Would explain why River wouldn't get jealous ...
Sept. 4, 2012, 8:19 a.m. CST
My prediction for the next few episodes...
by V'Shael
Next week will be the Black Pearl of the season. A town called Mercy will have issues with any viewer who thinks when the Doctor picks up a gun, you're already in trouble with your script. The UNIT episode will involve replication on a scale previously unseen.
Sept. 4, 2012, 8:36 a.m. CST
DenOfGeek (mostly spoiler free) Dinosaurs review up
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 4, 2012, 8:39 a.m. CST
Another review, with more "spoiler" like aspects
by HornOrSilk
It seems there are some controversial things in this one. http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2012/09/review-dinosaurs-on-spaceship.html
Sept. 4, 2012, 9:29 a.m. CST
Evidence that Oswin is not in a Teselecta, but isn't just a mad Dalek thinking it was human once
by DoctorTom
I just watched the episode again last night. At the end, when the Doctor is telling her she's a Dalek, she starts panicking. He tells her she was the one who must have climbed down, we get a flashback of her in the parka climbing down. As she confronts finding out being a Dalek, we get the fractured cuts outside and inside the shell. We get cuts between Oswin sittiing there in the red dress and panicking, then brief flashes of Oswin from the shoulders up. This Oswin is wired up inside something (presumably the Dalek) and is wearing the Parka. The cuts are indicating that this cutting back and forth at this time is a real-time thing, not past flashback. It's a cut between the fantasy world of making souffles, and the real world with Oswin (with the parka) wired up inside the Dalek. It does show, though, that the full conversion didn't make her look like the typical one eyed blobby Dalek, but is human. It means there's hope for rescuing her, and undoing the conversion process (as some people have suggested, she might have tied in with the teleportation beam and be aboard the Dalek ship. I suspect it will be more likely that the Doctor will in the future pop the TARDIS into the room and materialize around her to keep her alive. Some reprogrammed nanogenes should help undo the semi-failed Dalek conversion process.
Sept. 4, 2012, 9:32 a.m. CST
Another unspoken nod to the past in Asylum, with the nanocloud
by DoctorTom
The nanocloud first mentally converts people to Daleks by subtracting love and adding hate before it does the physical conversion. The first part, the mental conversion, sounds a lot like the Dalek Factor that the Daleks wanted to implant into humans way back in The Evil of the Daleks.
Sept. 4, 2012, 9:54 a.m. CST
the dr goes back in time
by emeraldboy
and rescues oswin Oswald.
Sept. 4, 2012, 11:19 a.m. CST
emeraldboy - it's a question of timing
by DoctorTom
if he rescues her before Asylum of the Daleks, then the purging of the Doctor from the Dalek databanks doesn't happen. More importantly, the Doctor keeps insisting he can't change events he's already interacted with, so supposedly that would have to stay the same. That said, I can already see one way out of it, but it's a way that I can pretty much guarantee that Moffat wouldn't use. He goes back in the past, talks with Oswin, charms her into somehow becoming a companion, then when it's time for her to be in that spaceship Oswin runs a Flesh avatar of herself - an equivalent to the Amy avatar last season, but the companion knowingly doing it this time. While this would let her be rescued without destroying the space time continuum, it's a bit "inside baseball" for what Moffat's trying to do now. I'm sure there will be some more dramatic approach to saving her. Maybe the Doctor cracks time - again - rescuing her.
Sept. 4, 2012, 11:41 a.m. CST
I think it is more likely that
by emeraldboy
its the same actress but a different role. karen gillian entered dr who has a soothsayer. and then was cast as amy pond.
Sept. 4, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST
It may be a dual role
by SgtHowie
Personally I'm not even trying to guess the storyline, or even read others guesses. Accidental spoilers still end up being spoilers. :-) But I do know the casting situation is quite different in this instance. Karen Gillan was cast in a small role one year, and then went through the casting process AGAIN for the role of Amy. (Freema Agyeman might be in a similar situation too?). Coleman was cast straight off as the new companion. That may or may not involve playing two roles, either way it was fully planned from the start that she would be sticking around.
Sept. 4, 2012, 12:07 p.m. CST
Everyone: they had the companion selection done for AoD
by HornOrSilk
It was done on purpose. The whole scene is a set up. She is not playing "someone else." She is the same person (though possibly with a mix to it). The twitter feed which I pointed to early on suggested that something like "The Wedding of River Song" is going to happen again to cross time streams and such, and so that is where she will be found again. However, I am not sure what that means, or if that is true. I still think she isn't a Dalek. I also think we might see her again. And if we do, I wouldn't be surprised if she has a role as something else. Imagine if she ends up as an angel, for example.
Sept. 4, 2012, 12:10 p.m. CST
In case you missed it-- this is the twitterlink
by HornOrSilk
Sept. 4, 2012, 1:41 p.m. CST
speculation about why that Dalek thinks its human
by bongo dummy
Honorsilk, That twitterwhatever kind of makes sense. I don't understand why they have to bring up that previous episode to explain the paradox of the real Oswin's existence though. But, if it is true, we'll see. What I wonder is if somehow Dalek Oswin believed itself to be human in a way that harkens back to Rose in Season 1. Remember that episode where Rose touches the "last Dalek" and imprints her DNA on it? Who's to say that the Real Oswin didn't imprint, or somewhat reprogram the Dalek. That interaction could have happened at least "A Year Ago" IF the Daleks were still sending crazy Daleks to the Asylum as recently as one year ago. The interaction could have easily predated its imprisonment. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. It would be funny if the last thing that happened prior to this hypothetical encounter would somehow happened as the real Oswin was baking a souffle.
Sept. 4, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST
by DoctorTom
Who's to say that the Real Oswin didn't imprint, or somewhat reprogram the Dalek.
Sept. 4, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST
Thoughts and opinions
by ByTor
OK, easy stuff first. On the subject of Skaro...well, it depends. Ignoring the novels and Big Finish for a moment, Skaro was supposedly destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks: the Doctor programmed the Hand of Omega to do so. Now, in the past fans have hung their collective hat on the bit where the Dalek says, ~Now entering Skaro time zone!~ as a sign that perhaps it happened in the far future. But why would the Doctor bother to do that? Why destroy Skaro way in the future where it won't affect the current Daleks? Of course, the Time War likely changed everything. It's possible -- and I'd even argue that it's likely -- that Skaro was restored, much as the Time Lords restored Rassilon, the Master, etc. As to the time lock...well, we really have no idea WHAT was time-locked, specifically, aside from Gallifrey, the Time Lords, the Daleks themselves, and the other things the Doctor mentioned in the End of Time. In the old series, there certainly was a point when the Daleks had abandoned Skaro. If Skaro was not in use during the Time War, it wouldn't necessarily be time locked. On the other hand, where'd all the Daleks in the Asylum come from? It'd be one thing if they were just RTD Daleks and Playskool Daleks, but there were old models there. Heck, the Special Weapons Dalek was there. That suggests the Asylum has been there for a long time, so why wouldn't it have been time locked? Seems odd that it would be missed. As to the episode's plot...yes, holes. The security system for the Asylum is just dopey: an impenetrable force field (which spaceships can get through, along with Dalek transmats), which can ONLY be opened from the INSIDE? You don't put the unlock buttons inside the jail cells, fellas. How would you even activate it? It defies logic. Having said that, I still enjoyed the episode. It did have a bit of a classic series vibe. JLC was terrific (and yes, she's a looker -- more on that next post). I was blown away by the surprise, so well done to all involved there. If I was disappointed by anything, it was the lack of old Daleks. They made such a big deal about including all different sorts of Daleks, but you could barely SEE them! It didn't help that the scenes were lit with a dim, yellowish-orangeish light that just made all the Daleks look the same color as RTD Daleks. A bad decision, IMO, on the part of the director or DP or lighting guy or whomever. It'd be one thing if you didn't make a big deal out of it and just hid a couple in the background, but such a fuss was made about including them all that it would've been nice to, y'know, SEE them. My kids (who haven't seen more than a few classic episodes) were looking forward to seeing them, and both were disappointed. I also agree that the resolution to the marriage came way too fast and easy, but more on that in my next post. Oh...and a Dalek parliament? Really? Why would the Daleks have a representative democracy? Though you really need to blame Saward for introducing the idea that the Daleks would have a justice system... ;)
Sept. 4, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST
Moff and characters
by ByTor
I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm a fan of the Moff's work, and I've enjoyed his tenure as show runner. Having said that, I've been saying for some time now that characterization is not his strong suit, or at least it hasn't been on Doctor Who. dj_bollocks, the fact that he doesn't direct the episodes really doesn't relate. The director of a TV show isn't going to mess with the characterization of anybody. That's not the director's job. The fact that OTHER writers objectified women is also not relevant. The classic series did almost no characterization of ANYBODY. That's not a knock; that's just how the show was. But it's immaterial. Sally Sparrow was plucky, cute, clever, witty. But I wouldn't exactly call her complex or well characterized, and the relationship with Larry was thin at best. She meets the Doctor, gives him the packet, and suddenly everything's OK and she takes Larry's hand. Really? Madame de Pompadour was probably his strongest character, to be sure, but even then she wasn't all that complex. And your remark about dark and moody totally misses the mark: a well-written character != dark, moody and troubled. Apples and oranges. The relationship between Amy and Rory is another example, at least in Asylum. They break up -- to the point that divorce papers are signed -- because she kicks him out. She does this because she knows he wants kids and she can't have them. On the surface one would be tempted to say, ~And what, they never talked about this?~ But real couples often don't talk about the big things, so that's fine. What's NOT fine is that they're suddenly over it by the end of the episode. It felt forced and rushed to me. For that matter, that's how many of Moff's relationships feel: forced and rushed. RTD had his faults. He wasn't nearly as good at pure sf. He never handled complex plots well (whereas Moff is one of the best plotters I've ever seen). He often left gaping holes, e.g. I just watched New Earth and boy howdy is it just packed with them. (Seriously, the clones have EVERY DISEASE EVER -- which makes no sense from a research standpoint; how could you ever test cures? -- but NONE OF THEM ARE AIRBORNE! I mean, c'mon. This is, like, high school science, Russell.) But he does characters VERY well. Characters in Russell stories behave in reasonable ways, and their growth and change all seem organic. (YMMV of course; it goes without saying that this is all my opinion.) It's why Midnight is so good -- and so terrifying.
Sept. 4, 2012, 3:05 p.m. CST
JLC's dual role
by ByTor
That was no accident, and they didn't cast her in Asylum and then decide she'd be great as a companion. Her casting was ANNOUNCED around the time Asylum was shooting, which meant they already knew. This is deliberate. Moff's up to something. As usual.
Sept. 4, 2012, 3:23 p.m. CST
bytor - Dalek parliament
by DoctorTom
Maybe the Parliament was a compromise between the iDaleks and the gold Daleks to have things work out between the different factions. More likely it was a decision by the different color Daleks to have a way of government between them so that the different color iDaleks didn't have to worry about geting stabbed in the humpback. The leader-class Daleks could probably see the potential to not have issues with the other Daleks - Strategist Daleks (who could supposedly plot a palace coup if they needed to), the Scientist Daleks (always want to keep the Daleks who come up with new and improved ways to exterminate happy, or else they go out and invent nanoclouds that convert Daleks into obeying the scientists, or unleash a bunch of Special Weapons Daleks or something like that), the Drone Daleks (who have the hoi polloi Daleks and severely outnumber the Supreme Daleks) and the Eternal Daleks (because if they're not happy, the Supreme Daleks might actually find out what the Eternals actually do). It might also give the regular Daleks a chance to vent about Dalek polcies, and get into sucker arm fights and extermination battles on the Parliament floor, strengthening the species by weeding out the more unfit of the Daleks that you just didn't feel like flushing down to an asylum. I do have to admit that I'm amused by the idea of a Dalek running around broacasting loudly SI-LENCE! SI-LENCE! THIS PAR-LIA-MENT WILL COME TO OR-DER OR I WILL EX-TER-MI-NATE!!!!!
Sept. 4, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST
Red headed Ballerina
by toxic182
Very few times do I post on the site. Love Dr. Who, with a passion. I also love the twists and speculation of season story arcs that comes with being a fan. Might be wrong haven't seen anyone else post on this and maybe it's just me but.... When we meet Oswin, there is a very distinct red headed ballerina figurine on her desk, seems innocent enough, but when amy is starting to trip balls on the nanotech thingies, she actually sees a red headed ballerina in the room with all the people. Further more, Moffat seems to make a point about this by filming the ballerina twirling from an overhead view, never seeing the face, but making it a predominant shot. I have no idea how this could connect to anything, just rarely on this show is something a coincidence. If you think it's nothing great! Let me know lol, but also let me know if you thought it was strange, and have any theories. As well The only thing I can come up with for Oswin returning, is that she says very clearly to remember her, and as we all know as it's literally the saving grace for the Dr in season 5, even if it doesn't exist now, remembering somethings existence can be just as important in bringing it back. Geronimooooooooo!!!
Sept. 4, 2012, 3:33 p.m. CST
bytor - Amy and Rory's relationship
by DoctorTom
Fair points on the characterizations by Moffat. I do think that despite what was said, Amy was hurt by what Rory said because she knew deep down that it was true from the start. She didn't want to say Rory was her boyfriend early on. Heck, the way she reacted growing up suggested he had always loved her since childhood while she was too busy to notice. She was willing to shag the Doctor the night before her wedding. He's right about looking after her for 2000 years, where she gets filled with hatred for the Doctor and is upset with Rory that he didn't rescue her until after 30 years in The Girl Who Waited. It takes Rory's first apparent death (in Amy's Choice) to make her realize that she actually is interested more in Rory than the Doctor. She seems to be far more self absorbed and less interested in what her partner has to say about things than Rory does. I suspect that even though they're back together, some things will still be bubbling through in the next few episodes.
Sept. 4, 2012, 4:37 p.m. CST
by ByTor
On the parliament: I get what you're saying, but IMO it just doesn't seem to fit with Dalek behavior. The Daleks have always shown a dictatorship, with an Emperor Dalek or Dalek Supreme or whatever in charge. Certainly such a leader could then designate various subordinate Daleks to be in charge of various things, but there's never been a hint of Daleks disagreeing. Except, of course, when Davros gets involved. Davros isn't a Dalek, and he wants to be in charge, so if he's not, he has a tendency to convert Daleks over to his side, and you get two factions. The only other example I can think of is the humanized Daleks from Evil of the Daleks, but that really wasn't a full-fledged civil war situation. Conformity is a huge thing with Daleks. I would think any Daleks that disagree with what's going on would be exterminated (or, I guess, thrown down to the Asylum that they can't get to). On the Ponds: I don't disagree with your assessment, but I still maintain that the so-called fix came way, way too fast.
Sept. 4, 2012, 4:38 p.m. CST
by ByTor
Interesting catch! Now I have to go back and watch for that.
Sept. 4, 2012, 5:48 p.m. CST
I'm a nerd.....
by Blarg Barfington
And that first video was fucking embarrassing.
Sept. 4, 2012, 10:27 p.m. CST
by Kathryn Gail
Well it doesn't make sense that Daleks would have any need to stand around in a room in order to govern themselves since they're all linked. For that matter, there's no reason for them ever to speak out loud amongst themselves other than to advance the plot, unless it's just a holdover tradition from Genesis of the Daleks early-development days when they had to interact with their creators. Unless they just do it as a good habit, to practice current languages or something. "Practice" seems anathema to Daleks' view of themselves, but just imagine the planning for the whole Victory of the Daleks scheme--picking over the nuances of English phrases and customs, and all sorts of mind-numbing details. It'll feel like a plot hole if that 'Parliament' doesn't have some far more complex purpose (granted, "nice display case as a present to long-time fans who want to model-spot" is a perfectly good purpose, just it didn't get all that much use in that capacity).
Sept. 4, 2012, 11:19 p.m. CST
the parliament of daleks
by bongo dummy
It does sort of make sense if the following are true: 1) It could be similar to the definition of a gathering of rooks, which is also called a parliament. (think, a school of fish; a herd of cattle, etc) 2) as much as the Daleks wanted the Doctor's help, the Daleks don't trust him and openly were not that diplomatic (as if Daleks ever would be, right?) So, most likely it was a gathering as either a show of strength and to protect the leader (brain blob bob?) and to possibly just act if the Doctor declined. They don't trust the Doctor but they certainly also know he can beat them. Witness how the Doctor was calm enough (yet thought it still could be the end for him) in that arena while he was scared spitless when he had to confront a few that were out to get him. As a show of strength, anyone would see it as overkill or an attempt to kill for that many Daleks to be there. It was similar to the flying swarm in earlier episodes where hundreds were gathered for invasion. (but, you know the simple reason might be that it looked cool on screen and probably didn't break the budget for the show to show hundreds of Daleks surrounding The Doc and his (obligatory) companions. So, it was enough as a production/direction choice)
Sept. 5, 2012, 12:37 a.m. CST
true enough, bongodummy
by Kathryn Gail
The word 'parliament' on its own simply means a gathering in order to speak, so a long-time foe like the Doctor might well know that it's a tiny Dalek contingent that means business, while a huge gathering means some circuitous scheme that may fail to leave him at a permanent disadvantage (and Rory and Amy were just ending their marriage, so an 'oh perfect, how much worse can this day get' attitude is somewhat credible after all their travels). Let's hope it's not 'parliament' as in Chaucer's Parliament of Birds as that's a St. Valentine's Day poem about pairing up, and that scale of Dalek pairing up (creepy-cultish though it would be) would send me right over to the 'this is just a soap opera now' camp! (Although it does seem to be reuniting the Ponds. . . ) But just looking cool in the lead-up to the 50th. . . haha--secretly? if I complain a lot, it's just another excuse to keep looking back at the cool-looking scenes. . .
Sept. 5, 2012, 4:30 a.m. CST
@bongodummy - if they meant Parliament in that loose term
by V'Shael
then why have such a retarded statement like *The Prime Minister will speak with you now*
Sept. 5, 2012, 4:40 a.m. CST
really surprised that nobody has put up the link
by emeraldboy
for the full trailer for dinosaur on spaceship.
Sept. 5, 2012, 7:35 a.m. CST
The Daleks have a new paradigm, remember
by HornOrSilk
No more emperors.....
Sept. 5, 2012, 8:24 a.m. CST
ministers, buildings
by Kathryn Gail
Why have a prime minister, and why build a huge building impractically shaped like a Dalek on Skaro? Even as a ruin from the distant past, the Daleks normally run a tighter operation than that (true, they built the Empire State Building and didn't exactly leave off the decorative flourishes, but that was by way of blending in with 1930s human society). To be honest, no matter how many plot holes I snark about, I normally do end up being just fine with the 'looks cool' rationale (and suspect that'll get a good workout with Dinosaurs and I won't mind a bit), but it feels like collaboration or contamination--they've learned to mimic humans, but as a price they're infected with a love of politics and architecture. . .
Sept. 5, 2012, 9:30 a.m. CST
@doctom: I disagree - I think Oswin's def. a blobby Dalek inside the shell, and...
by obijuanmartinez
...I think they kept her "look" (human) consistent in & out of the shell to represent the inner dialogue happening (and also so folks watching wouldn't get thrown off if they kept flashing back & forth between a cute girl & a blobby mass). I don't think there's enough room in a Dalek casing (yes, we know the operator sits there), but if Arthur Stengos in "Revelation of the Daleks" is any indication, I don't think the "Dalekation" process leaves an intact human specimen for recovery... http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Arthur_Stengos
Sept. 5, 2012, 10:17 a.m. CST
The Parliament
by ByTor
Here's the thing. If it were just a term being used to describe a gathering of Daleks (either generally or specifically a gathering to discuss something), the Doctor would have called it *A* parliament. *The* Parliament strongly implies it's a standing body of some type. Either way, it's odd. But I still enjoyed the episode.
Sept. 5, 2012, 10:24 a.m. CST
Oswin isn't a Dalek or a Human. She's a ... (HAT)
by veteran_of_mu
Yes, it's the first Oswin HAT. Freeze framing through the ep: That is one extremely large Dalek at the start of the episode. Building? Statue? Ultimate Weapon? The Doc walking around inside its eye is just like Oswin walking around inside a Dalek shell ... ~Make them remember you~ is a timey-wimey line if ever I heard one. The Doc says it to Amy. Oswin says it to the Doc ... Speaking non-academically, Oswin running to the communications console is something I could watch over and over again. JLC is something else. Oswin is wearing a big clunky steel bracelet.. I had thought it was a nanocloud-defeating bracelet. But it's not - it's a different design. She uses it to scan people. Which is a pretty odd thing to do when she could be using all the whizzo controls in her ship to scan people. So this seems to be a device we haven't seen before in DW. Not a vortex manipulator or a sonic. What does it scan? Maybe ... memories ... ? What is Harvey doing with the Alaska tool before Amy turns up? If he was dead and frozen outside the ship, how come he's not still frozen? Only possible explanation is Oswin has hacked him to attempt to rescue her. But then ... why does he attempt to kill the Doc? ~We have grown stronger in fear of you~ - Oswin is speaking as a Dalek, not a converted human. More properly she is speaking as a converted Dalek ... So here's the HAT. Oswin is a virus, a phage that infects the nanocloud, converting Daleks into humans ... ~Remember~ A memory virus - a memory that consumes anyone who remembers it ... converting them into Oswin.
Sept. 5, 2012, 10:48 a.m. CST
Obijuanmartinez - Oswin
by DoctorTom
I think we still have at least the head and the top of the body of Oswin in the shell. I think it's more than representing the inner dialog. They could have easily gotten rid of most of her body, though, and wired the rest into the Dalek shell.
Sept. 5, 2012, 12:46 p.m. CST
The Parliament FunkaDalek
by Sequitur
There I said it~ LOL
Sept. 5, 2012, 1:31 p.m. CST
Extras for Series 7 part 1 announced.
by DoctorTom
According to www.tvshowsondvd.com, the extras on Doctor Who : The 7th Series - Part 1 will be: The Science of Doctor Who Doctor Who at Comic Con Featurettes: "Pond Life" "Asylum of the Daleks" Prequel The Making of "Gunslinger" This comes out on DVD in the US November 13, the day after it becomes available in the UK. It's nice to see that they're throwing on some stuff beside the episodes themselves.
Sept. 5, 2012, 1:35 p.m. CST
Parliament FunkaDalek
by DoctorTom
well, the song title Atomic Dog sounds like it would fit in as the title for a Season 7 episode, possibly guest starring K9.
Sept. 5, 2012, 2:23 p.m. CST
@doctom: Und zo...vee zhall zee! (Kind of puts her in the same boat as Fassbender @ the end of "Prometheus", no?
by obijuanmartinez
Sept. 5, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST
The Star Trek TNG / Doctor Who crossover comic, meanwhile has taken a turn for the interesting (but not unexpected) - *HEREIN BE SPOILERS*
by obijuanmartinez
Pretty sure the Borg would utterly own the Cybermen, not the other way around!
Sept. 5, 2012, 3:42 p.m. CST
I'm a bit underwhelmed by the crossover
by DoctorTom
it's being written by Star Trek writers who were pretty much ignoring all the notes that IDW's Doctor Who author was giving them, that's why Tony Lee left after issue 4. People who only knew the new Doctor Who series complaining about the slow pace of classic Doctor Who - that's nothing compared to what feels like the glacial pace of a normal ST: TNG story. If this had been written from the Doctor Who standpoint, everything they're putting in the miniseries would have been taken care of by issue 3, further wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey problems would have been introduced (we'd probably have a Klingon-Sontaran war going on after the CyBorg hijinks, then have Q face off against the Celestial Toymaker. AND Tony probably would have found a way to work Kevin the Dinosaur into the series too.
Sept. 5, 2012, 5:16 p.m. CST
Oswin as Virus - HAT #11023
by veteran_of_mu
Consider what we've just been told: 1) The Daleks are all linked by a telepathic Internet called Pathnet. 2) Insane Daleks are isolated to prevent them from challenging the Parliament. 3) Daleks routinely convert non-Daleks into Dalek puppets - slave servers on the Pathnet. 4) This empties out their memories which are transcribed into files. It also turns them into haters - a metaphor for Internet trolls. 5) Oswin scares the eggs off the Daleks because she can empty out their memories. Any and all of their memories. She can do to them what they do to everyone else. 6) Oswin was a genius hacker slumming on a luxury starliner that for one reason or another got converted. Once her memories got inside Pathnet they weren't just ordinary files. She can take control of it. 7) Realising they'd been hacked the Daleks attempt to isolate Oswin in the Asylum. This doesn't work - obviously because when she hacks Daleks in the Asylum the effects are felt outside. 8) The Daleks have no one to turn to but the Doctor. They are in absolute despair so plead with him to Save them - knowing he can never resist such a plea, even from them. 9) Before the Doctor can destroy her Oswin ~scans~ him. This is ostensibly to find out there's a ladder under him. But she already knows there's a ladder there because she put it there before she climbed down it. 10) So what did she actually scan? There's really only one thing the Doctor carries she could hack into. Insert herself into. And we already know that it can hold all of a person's memories ...
Sept. 5, 2012, 6:42 p.m. CST
So basically caractacus
by cosmic_dolphin
The Daleks network is the internet and the sonic is for all intents and purposes a USB stick that's now infected with the oswin virus. nice theory, quite moffat like. how will she get her body back? maybe Amy dies whilst holding the sonic and her corporeal form gets transmogrified into oswin by the virus and pond can only be 'saved by the library.
Sept. 5, 2012, 7:25 p.m. CST
Poor Karen Gillan left Doctor Who for Hollywood...
by thecomedian
...And she didn't even get cast as Abed's Inspector Spacetime obsessed love interest on the coming season of Community. They gave to part to Trisha Helfer instead. Stupid hack-ass, post-Harmon team on that show. She would have been awesome in that part.
Sept. 5, 2012, 9 p.m. CST
Wait, the dvd's for series 7.1 come out Nov 13th???
by Kevin Bolinger
That's my birthday! Ok, Who is gonna buy it for me? lol lol :P
Sept. 5, 2012, 11:24 p.m. CST
DALEKS are not scary to me...
by xoandre
I'm sorry, but that Season/Series premiere frankly was a waste of anticipation and time. I have never ever feared or gotten any form of sensation of fear at the Daleks. They are R2D2 with legible voices, and thus pretty harmless in my eyes. Sure, I am an American and I know I missed out on much of the first 8 doctors, and thus do not have the historical dread that hardcore Whovians seem to have for Daleks. Thus, trying to "Humanize" the Daleks in this premiere episode, the danger and thrill that I could sense them wanting me to feel just left me empty and hungry for the ripe days of Tennant's 10th Doctor. Certainly Matt Smith is doing everything he can to hold his own and make the Doctor something fresh and new while retaining elements here and there of doctors long gone, but my heart is still with a chance script wherein the alternate universe in which ROSE was left behind still has an un-regenerated David Tennant 10th Doctor fighting the good fight and making epic mistakes which will echo through time and space...
Sept. 6, 2012, 2:59 a.m. CST
@caractacuspotts - of Oswin and Emporers
by Dreamfasting
The way I see it, Oswin's status was very much like a Dalek Emporer, or Dalek Supreme or other high officer: an alpha mind able to bend other Daleks to its will. She might not even be a hacker ... those skills might just be part of the delusion, how she rationalizes her power. The reason other Daleks were unwilling to confront her directly is because she had the potential to be a powerful officer and could bend Daleks near her to her will. She had essentially taken over the assylum and only her denial of her Dalekness prevented her from extending her rule further. As she demonstated in the end, she could have completely taken over, subverted the "parliament" and become a new emporer. But I don't buy the idea that she will survive this encounter by some clever trick. Rather, I side with the people who think this plotline is intended to present us with a scenario where the Doctor will encounter her earlier in her timeline and struggle over how to save her without ripping time apart.
Sept. 6, 2012, 3:20 a.m. CST
Sorry Dreamfasting but …
by veteran_of_mu
Emperor daleks don't induce other daleks to ask the doc to save them. Also you don't explain the scanning. Emperor Daleks don't need to scan for things they already know are there. And … emperor Daleks have smaller bumps ;-)
Sept. 6, 2012, 5:54 a.m. CST
is oswin the new davros.
by emeraldboy
intelligent, smart, smug, beautiful to look at, cunning, calculating and devious and utterly manipulative.
Sept. 6, 2012, 8:06 a.m. CST
by xoandre
by emeraldboy
the daleks were a creation of post world war two britain they are slightly germanic sounding. and they want to conquer the world and exterminate anyone who gets in thier way which is what the nazis wanted to do and they also want to purify their own race. which again is very nazi like.
Sept. 6, 2012, 9:32 a.m. CST
by ByTor
Your viewpoint is perfectly legit, and I'm not sure seeing the first 8 Doctors would change it much. As iconic as they are, the Daleks weren't all that effective very often. I think their original appearance is good and creepy, and Dalek Invasion of Earth is good, but the Chase was silly and Dalek Masterplan a bit meh. Power of the Daleks wasn't all that great either. Then Evil came, and it was a great story but the Daleks aren't very fearsome. Then we get Day of the Daleks (decent story again, but the Daleks are a bit rubbish). Then the terrible Death to the Daleks. Ah but then we get Genesis of the Daleks, and the Daleks really shine there. And then...it goes downhill. Destiny of the Daleks is so terrible, and so ridiculous, that it becomes impossible to really take the Daleks seriously at all. They don't get much better until the new series episode Dalek. Now if you didn't find the Dalek in Dalek creepy or effective, then you'll never ever find the Daleks effective I'm afraid. Personally I thought that Dalek was the best appearance of a Dalek ever, by far.
Sept. 6, 2012, 9:59 a.m. CST
xoandre - parallel universe
by DoctorTom
it's possible that we'll get a chance script (if we do it will for the 50th anniversary), but I wouldn't put out much hope for it. And, to be frank, if we see parallel human Tennant Doctor again, we'll have to ignore some gaping plotholes for him to be around. Donna had to have her memories completely repressed in order to not die, because we are told a half human half Time Lord can't exist, the Time Lord knowledge would kill him. We are told the blue suited Doctor left behind in Pete's World is human. One heart, no regeneration ability. He has all the memories of the Doctor. He went the the same biological metacrisis as Donna. By what they established in Journey's End, "our" Doctor left the handDoctor on the other universe knowing full well that he was about to mentally sieze up and die the way he knew Donna was going to. The 10th Doctor was being a real bastard there. If we see Rose again, it should be as a vengeful ex-girlfriend who's trying to hunt the Doctor down for what he had put her through. I'm sure her finding out that the Doctor's married now to some other woman wouldn't improve her mood any.
Sept. 6, 2012, 10:12 a.m. CST
by ByTor
I'm not so sure. Since 10.5 originated from a Time Lord template, it's possible that he won't suffer the same fate. And given the way RTD thinks and writes, you know there's no way that he meant 10.5 to 'fail' the way Donna did. He's HALF human, yes. Donna was, biologically, FULL human with just Time Lord memories, etc. (She even said, 'I got the best part of the Doctor...I got his mind.') I think it's safe to say Donna and 10.5 are different enough that 10.5 is still just fine.
Sept. 6, 2012, 10:40 a.m. CST
Of course 10.5 is fine. We know that because ...
by veteran_of_mu
He goes on to become the Peter Cushing Doc. Actually I think that was a Doctom HAT - or am I misremembering?
Sept. 6, 2012, 11:05 a.m. CST
bytor, caractuspotts
by DoctorTom
Bytor, I'll agree that RTD didn't plan for 10.5 to fail. It's just that the explanation he gives for Donna would apply equally to 10.5 The speech the Doctor gave about why there couldn't be half human half Timelords was to Donna, so RTD was treating Donna as half Timelord at the time. And, we get 10.5 saying he's human, he can age, he has only one heart. It wounds like biologically they're the same. I'm sure they can go back and handwave a few things, much like The End of Time handwaves the "Donna can't remember or she'll die" bit to him having built in a failsafe- don't you think he should have warned Wilf and Sylvia that if she starts to remember get away from her because there's going to be a lot of energy pouring out of her soon? Caractuspotts - I don't think it was my HAT that 10.5 becomes the Peter Cushing Doctor. Maybe the Doctor who's stuck outside the universe ever since stepping through the crack in The Big Bang becomes the Peter Cushing Doctor. Or somebody in the 1960's finds the infotube that zapped Jackson Lake, zaps himself and suddenly thinks he's the Doctor - and he just coincidentally had a granddaughter named Susan. The Daleks never questioned his being the Doctor because they're used to seeing him in different bodies.
Sept. 6, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST
@Caractuspotts - re sorry
by Dreamfasting
*checks sarcasim detectors and gives them a kick*
Sept. 6, 2012, 1:10 p.m. CST
by ByTor
That's certainly how we can infer things, but he never specifically says Donna is half TL. In fact, Donna just says she's 'part' Time Lord. Now, I agree that in this case that may be a distinction without a difference, but there is a teeny bit of wiggle room there. 10.5 never says he's human; he specifically states he is half human, and that he has one heart and won't regenerate. 10.5 completely grew from the (Time Lord) hand; Donna already existed as a full human. That to me suggests that there *could* be a difference, and combined with the way the (real) Doctor behaved in Journey's End, I think it only logical to assume that 10.5 will survive just fine. The Doctor clearly still loved Rose; would he REALLY suggest that Rose and 10.5 live happily ever after if 10.5 is minutes away from collapsing? It just doesn't track. (DoctorDonna also specifically hinted at the 10.5-grows-old-with-Rose thing, and she certainly figured out what was going to happen to herself.) And I'm not getting into the Cushing Doctor. That's an alternate universe wholly unrelated to our normal Doctor Who universe. ;)
Sept. 6, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST
Wouldn't it be neat if his new companion was Oswin as a Dalek.
by aramis2112
With the actress only being used for the "in the dalek hacking stuff and making souffles"...
Sept. 7, 2012, 1:28 a.m. CST
Chat live about Doctor Who this week
by GeptaOO1
Hey Everybody..... This Saturday, let's try chatting live in AICN chat! Some of us in here have done it for other shows. Back When LOST was on, Gotilk, myself, and 5 or 6 other people would chat live about LOST. Sometimes we would also watch old episodes of FARSCAPE and chat online as well.... What do you guys think...? Doctor Who chat this Saturday in AICN chat!!!
Sept. 7, 2012, 2:30 a.m. CST
My Kids are so looking forward to
by cosmic_dolphin
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship ! the wife likes her some Rupert Graves too so it's a win-win-win all round.
Sept. 7, 2012, 8:25 a.m. CST
28 hours 55 minutes till DINOSAURS ON A SPACESHIP!!!!!
by Seph_J
Sept. 10, 2012, 11:40 a.m. CST
IT IS AN ARK IN SPACE, Merrick/MOV is that the old-series EGG(stir, bake)?
by Kathryn Gail
(with apologies to anyone who already posted this, I am as slow catching up on posts as I am with the logic skills!) Is that it? Is that the thing mentioned way up-thread that old-series fans might get? That the setting of Dinosaurs is also the title of an old show? I was pulling my hair out over that suggestion: "is it just that there are Silurians? it can't just be that there are Silurians, what am I missing. . . "
Sept. 14, 2012, 10:03 a.m. CST
Just saw Asylum
by Himbo
I was really hoping Oswin would be a Movellan android from classic Who. You'd think there have to be some remnants of their tech laying around. I have no problem with the Doctor having a Cybernetic or Android companion. As for questions fo Dinosaur: Is it a reference to Invasion of the Dinosaurs, the old Pertwee story. http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Invasion-Dinosaurs-Story/dp/B005KQVD3M
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