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How To Make Stuffed Grape Leaves (Dolmades)
Cooking Lessons from The Kitchn
One hot, sunny day in late June I found myself in a tiny Arab market in Jaffa, Tel Aviv, sifting through a box of cucumbers. I was with Deanna and Danya, the lovely ladies behind the popular Israeli food blog Matkonation, and we were ingredient shopping for an afternoon cooking expedition. On the menu: stuffed grape (or vine) leaves made with spiced lamb, fresh mint, dried currants, and a cooling cucumber-yogurt sauce. May through early July is the best time to harvest grape leaves, which explained why we were able to grab bunches out of an overflowing cardboard box. The season was ripe for the recipe.
While in Israel and in the company of Matkonation, I initially requested we make an "authentic" Israeli dish, but I was told that doesn't really exist! New Israeli food, similar to American food, stems from a cultural melting pot, with influences ranging from the rest of the Middle East to the Mediterranean, Northern Africa, Eastern and Western Europe, and Russia.
Stuffed grape leaves, also known as dolmas, are a popular cuisine in Israel and have certain characteristics we associate with that part of the world (lamb spiced with baharat, for example), but they actually have a long culinary history across the Middle East, as well as in Greece and Turkey. Fillings and spices vary by culture, but the gist is the same: grape or vine leaves are wrapped around a rice-based filling which includes some combination of meat (often lamb), fresh herbs like mint or parsley, onions, spices, and sometimes nuts or dried fruits.
I was shocked at how simple these were. For some reason, they've always seemed more complicated in my head. However, simple does not equal quick. It is rather time consuming to hand-roll 60-70 grape leaves, but truth be told, it's also a little meditative. Is this a meal to throw together in 30 minutes? Probably not. But a few hours some Sunday, a little background music, and you'll soon be into the grape-leaf-rolling groove.
Plus, stuffed grape leaves freeze remarkably well, which makes all that hard work pay off. After cooking, allow them to cool fully, then drizzle with olive oil, place in a freezer bag, and freeze. They'll keep for up to six months. To reheat, thaw them overnight in the refrigerator and then steam on the stovetop or heat in the microwave.
→ Visit Deanna and Danya's blog: Matkonation
Where To Find Grape Leaves: Because fresh grape leaves were readily available in Tel Aviv markets when I was in Israel, we used them in this version. But if you don't have access to fresh grape leaves, you can find jarred or canned grape leaves at Middle Eastern grocery stores, or online.
Stuffed Grape Leaves with Cucumber-Yogurt SauceRecipe provided by Matkonation. Makes 60 to 70 stuffed grape leaves.
What You Need
1/2 pound fresh grape leaves
1 tablespoon salt
2 tomatoes, thinly sliced
For the filling:
2 tablespoons olive oil
1 large yellow onion, finely chopped
3 garlic cloves, minced
1/4 cup pine nuts
1/4 pound ground lamb
1 1/2 cups uncooked short-grain rice
1/4 cup fresh mint leaves, finely chopped
1/4 cup dried currants (you can use dried cranberries if you can't find currants)
1/2 teaspoon baharat (see recipe below for homemade version)
Salt to taste
For the marinating sauce:
4 garlic cloves, thinly sliced
2 cups boiling water
1 tablespoon olive oil
1/4 cup fresh lemon juice
Salt and fresh ground pepper
Large pot
Large skillet
Medium bowl
1. Soak the Grape Leaves: Soak the grape leaves in a large pot filled with boiling water and one tablespoon salt for five minutes. Remove from water and strain. Set aside. Note: If you use canned grape leaves, rinse them with hot water twice and then twice again in cold water in order to get all the vinegar out.
2. Cook the Onions: Heat the olive oil in a large skillet and add the onion. Cook over medium heat for about 7 minutes, or until the onion is soft and translucent, but not browned.
3. Add Garlic and Pine Nuts: Add the garlic and pine nuts and continue to cook for another 2-3 minutes.
4. Add the Lamb: Raise heat to high, add the ground lamb and cook just until meat is browned. Add uncooked rice, and stir 1-2 minutes to combine. (The rice will cook when the grape leaves are steamed.)
5. Remove from Heat and Season: Remove from heat, add mint leaves, currants, and baharat. Season with salt and adjust seasoning according to taste.
6. Roll the Grape Leaves: Place a leaf, shiny side down (veiny side up) on a clean working space. Place about one teaspoon of filling in the center of the leaf, fold in the sides of the leaf, and roll from the bottom to the top. Make sure to create a very tight roll.
7. Place Rolled Grape Leaves in Pot: Line a large pot with a layer of sliced tomatoes. Place the prepared leaves tightly on top of the tomatoes in concentric circles, leaving no gaps between them. Repeat with until you run out of grape leaves, or the pot is full. When you finish one layer, start a second layer. (There is no need to put another layer of tomatoes on.)
8. Add Garlic and Marinating Sauce: Evenly sprinkle the sliced garlic over the grape leaves. Mix together the marinating sauce ingredients and pour over the grape leaves.
8. Place a Plate Over the Leaves and Cook: Place a plate over the leaves, cover the pan and bring to a boil. Reduce heat to low and cook for 1 1/2 hours. Serve warm or cold with cucumber yogurt (recipe below).
Cucumber-Yogurt Sauce
1 1/2 cups plain yogurt, preferably from goat's milk
2-3 small cucumbers cut into small cubes
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 tablespoon good quality olive oil
In a medium bowl, mix together the yogurt, cucumbers and garlic. Season with salt, top with olive oil and serve.
Baharat Spice
2 tablespoons fresh ground black pepper
2 tablespoons paprika
2 tablespoons ground cumin
1 tablespoons ground coriander
1 tablespoons ground cloves
1 teaspoon nutmeg
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon ground cardamom
Mix all ingredients together and store in an air-tight container.
Thanks, Deanna and Danya!
Related: Spice Mix: Baharat
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(Images: All images by Cambria Bold, except gallery photos #1 and #15, which are by Danya Weiner of Matkonation)
Per serving, based on 16 servings. (% daily value)
15 Comments
How inspiring! I am going to make these!
So much of this is similar to my friend's tutorial. She used different spices and no tomatoes. I imagine because of her regional differences (she is from Azerbijan--or maybe she 'American-zed' them?). She did not use fresh grape leaves, but bought jars of canned grape leaves from our local middle eastern store. I used to pick fresh grape leaves for my mother when I was a kid & they were always tougher than canned. Makes me wonder if we prepared them properly or picked the wrong size/wrong time of year, etc.
I remember picking the leaves at my Syrian great-grandmother's house back in the 70's, and then watching my grand-mother make grape leaves. I know there are many regional variations (as you noted), but (of course) hers were the best. I don't recall the whole recipe, but it was very similar to this - minus the currants). I do remember that she stressed that her secret was adding the lamb bones to the boiling water, in which you soak the grape leaves. She also always added mint to the cucumber yogurt sauce and let it sit overnight (or at least a few hours) to let all of the flavors mix into the yogurt.
Can I use the grape leaves on my grape vines growing here in Minnesota?
PS - If you live in Brooklyn, she bought all of her ingredients along Atlantic Avenue and baked goods in Bay Ridge. Wish I had the exact store names, I have to get it from my cousin.
holy cow!!! can you say "weekend project"???
question re: use of canned grape leaves in lieu of fresh-- one would omit Step 1 soak in salted water and start at Step 2 instead? thanks!
I pick grape leaves in my yard to make them. Chances are, if you live in New England they're taking over your woods or along your fences.
My Syrian grandmother was our daycare as children. These were lunch much of early childhood. I can taste them now while looking through these photos. Like KERRSLP said, no currants, and my Situ omitted the Baharat seasoning and pine nuts. The simplicity of grape leaves, meat, rice, parsley, mint, lemon and garlic were all that was needed. Accompanied with thick, homemade, plain yogurt; we were in heaven!
I can't remember her using jarred grapleaves, but I've had many tasty renditions that used jarred leaves.
Does it matter when you pick the grape leaves? In spring or summer?
could one just omit the lamb for a vegetarian version? or would it be better to replace it with something?
Do the currant/cranberry add a sweetness at all? I don't think I'd like that and would prefer to have the savory/salty flavors in the meat and onion. Do you think you can leave them out? I'm also curious about what changes when using canned grape leaves vs fresh ones.
Hi all! Thanks for the comments. Regarding the use of canned or jarred grape leaves instead of fresh: I've updated the instructions to note the preparation difference, but basically if you use canned or jarred grape leaves you don't need to steam them, but you should rinse to rid them of the vinegar: twice with hot water and then twice again in cold water.
@Superin, you can definitely make a vegetarian version. Omit the meat and focus on making a tasty herbed rice . I would maybe add tomatoes, and amp up the onions, spices, and fresh herbs.
Love this, thank you Cambria! Here's another version, Lebanese style, from my recent trip there:
@supererin, you can replace the lamb with garbanzo beans. It's delicious! My family is Maronite Catholic and that's how we stuff grape leaves during Lent.
1 1/2 hours seems an awful long time to cook these. If I boil them on the stove-top, I seldom leave them for any longer than it takes the rice to cook. I usually bake them 30-45 minutes in the oven, covered with broth, in a 9x13" pan lined with the leaves that are torn or too tough. And I never cook the meat and onions ahead of time, just mix everything raw, wrap and bake.
I'd like to emphasize the double or triple rinsing of canned leaves. Not only does it wash out the vinegar, but it also reduces the salt.
Armenians call the meat version Sarma. There is a rice-only version called Yalanchi (spelling varies) dolma. I also have a recipe using brown rice, tomatoes and summer squash. These last two can be served cold or room-temp.
Armenians also use the same meat/rice filling to stuff bell peppers, zucchini, tomatoes and a variety of other vegetables.
Sarma and dolma both are Turkish words. Sarma means rolled (we use generally for leaves), dolma means stuffed (we use generally for pepper, tomato, zucchini, etc). I think it gives an idea about the origin of the meal. Both can be with or without meat. Only the version with meat is served with yogurt.


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Sugar and Spice Pumpkin Pie
Best Pie Bakeoff 2008 Entry #11
We do love pumpkin pie; it's a classic for a reason. Here's Stirling's entry into this classic form of pie. She bakes up one of the prettiest pies we've seen, courtesy of cute crust cutters from Williams-Sonoma. She also has great step-by-step photos to guide you in recreating this crust.
Where is this recipe from? The recipe for the crust is from my friend, Shirley's, grandmother. Shirley also gave me the tip of using waxed paper. It makes transferring pie crusts almost fool proof!
The pumpkin filling is from the November 2008 issue of Fine Cooking. They say that this is the perfect pie, and I think they may be right.
Why is this the BEST pie recipe you've got? The filling is undeniably delicious because of the heavy cream and the eggs. The many spices mixed with the cognac make this pie Thanksgiving worthy. I made the pie for a friend's birthday a couple of weeks ago and got lots of quiet eaters! People loved how smooth and flavorful it is. Yum!
The leaves around the edge, of course, taste the same as the rest of the crust, but they give the edge polish and heightens expectations. I prefer a crust with more shortening than butter because it makes the crust flaky, but different shortenings give the crust different flavors. I use an organic shortening that I find tastes much better than Crisco.
Sugar and Spice Pumpkin Pie
For the crust:
2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup cold shortening
2 tablespoons cold butter
4 tablespoons ice cold water
For the filling:
15-oz. can pure pumpkin
2 large eggs
1 large egg yolk
1 cup heavy cream
1 Tbs. cognac or brandy
3/4 cup lightly packed light brown sugar
1 tsp. ground ginger
1 1/2 tsp. ground cinnamon
1/2 tsp. table salt
1/8 tsp. freshly ground nutmeg
1/8 tsp. freshly ground black pepper
1/8 tsp. ground cloves
Make crust dough:
Mix flour with salt. Cut in the shortening until the mixture looks like fine meal (see picture). Cut in the butter coarsely--this makes a flaky crust. Both of these cut steps can be done in a food processor by pulsing. Sprinkle with water, mixing lightly with a fork until all the mixture is moistened. Alternatively in a food processor, pulse until the dough starts to gather (see picture). Bring dough together and press gently into a smooth ball. Wrap ball in plastic wrap and chill for half an hour.
Roll out dough:
Roll dough out between sheets of wax paper. The recipe makes enough for 2 9" pie crusts. You will have plenty, so don't worry if the edges look cracked. The edges will be cut off and used for edge decoration. When the crust is much larger than your pan, carefully lift the top layer of wax paper off the crust. Turn over the crust and transfer it to the pan. Make sure that it is even. Then you take the top layer of wax paper off. Cut off the extra crust. Roll out the extra crust and punch out leaf designs for the edge of the pie shell (see picture). I bought the leaf stamp at Williams and Sonoma, but you can do the same with a paring knife.
Poke holes through the bottom of the crust with a fork. Put in a sheet of parchment or wax paper on top of pie shell and weigh it down with pie weights or beans (see picture). Bake at 400 F for 15-20 minutes or until the dough looks dry. Let crust cool down completely before filling.
Make the filling and bake the pie:
Heat the oven to 325 F. In a large bowl, whisk the pumpkin, eggs, egg yolk, cream and cognac. (see picture)
In a small bowl, mix the brown sugar, ginger, cinnamon, salt, nutmeg, pepper and cloves. Whisk the sugar mixture into the pumpkin mixture.
Pour the filling into the cooled piecrust. Bake until the pie is set around the outside but still slightly wet and jiggly in the center, about 1 hour. The filling will continue to set as it cools. Let the pie cool completely and the refrigerate for at least 2 hours (yeah, right!) and up to 2 days before serving. I have let the pie cool for 30 minutes before digging in. It can be hard to wait sometimes.
(Images: L. Stirling Churchman)
5 Comments
This sounds, and looks, delicious. I have been tasked w/the duties of pumpkin pie for Thanksgiving and think I will give this a try. I like the addition of cognac and cream.
this was a super tasty pie--the best pumpkin pie I've ever had! Stirling brought it in for everyone to share, and we were very impressed. Light and smooth tasting. The crust was particularly delicious, and looked very elegant as well.
The pie looks great and I can't wait to try it! I may try to make it for Thanksgiving!
FYI - i made this pie and took it to my in-law's for thanksgiving and my mother-in-law said it was the BEST pumpkin pie she's ever had. i would agree. i don't think the bailey's flavored whipped cream hurt either. thanks for posting this recipe!
As a side note, I recently noticed that this recipe is originally from the Tartine cookbook.
Fine Cooking magazine republished it last November as the perfect pie. No wonder it turns out so nicely.


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I was wondering what you guys think about something. Out in the ol' Internetz, I've noticed a lot of former anarcho-capitalists splinter off into "reactionary right" thinking. Their primary influences seem to be some combination of Mencius Moldbug (some guy who runs a blog), George Fitzhugh a Confederate slavery apologist, Julius Evola, some bits and pieces of Friedrich Nietzsche, and apparently Ragnar Redbeard (the guy who wrote Might is Right).
This site would be typical of the stuff I'm talking about: therightstuff.biz
I guess their primary concern is societal/civilizational decline. They seem to think that feminism and liberalization (libertarianism included under that umbrella) are the biggest culprits. I think there is a lot to their criticism of feminism and I think traditional social mores do have a lot of pull to them. But I don't see tradition as necessarily something to be respected. If you think that Aztec human sacrifice was wrong, that would be an appeal to reason or some other type of moral reasoning over an appeal to tradition. Tradition ought to be respected if it's a good tradition and discarded if it's a bad one, which is another way of saying that one action ought to be tolerated if it's legitimate and not tolerated if it's illegitimate. I also don't think Nietzsche would too highly value anti-diversity in its polar opposite, complete conformity. I don't believe he would be one to think of the individual as a drop of water in the collective stream, but maybe I missed that passage. I also don't agree with their systematic analysis of human action in that all of life is a struggle of all against all and that every action is one of domination by one party and submission on the other. I have no idea where that comes from. My initial opinion is that they are short on argumentaiton and systematic analyses of human nature and big on flowery language and emotional appeals.
Anyway, those are my random assorted thoughts. I'd like to hear what you think.
I would bet the farm that virtually all of them are 30-something obese neckbeards. That's what all of the 'internet elitists' are. Whether they are talking about abstract ideas, that they ape from others, or their anime collections. Notice no one posts a picture of themselves to reveal the perfect specimen of manliness, nor the beautiful women who are now under their spell. Just disappointment that wolves are on the lawn, and there is a whole active world out there to frighten and confuse them.
I would consider myself a reactionary right winger, not influenced by the people you described though.
And I'm not a "former" anarcho-capitalist. I consider Rothbardian ancap as a right wing counterrevolution against the progressive state.
As I have stated many times before, the whole left vs. right argument has been quite confusing, especially when looked at from a libertarian perspective. I am quite hesitant to call myself a "right-winger" being that I am not socially conservative, nor conservative in the sense of government. Anarcho-capitalism is something that I hold to be quite liberal, in the proper use of the term.
Conservative does not equal right wing. (I am a right wing radical).
And classical liberalism is considered an inherently right-wing philosophy.
For some reason I thought that historically classical liberalism was considered to be left-wing.
I just refrain from using those terms because typically when people think about the "right-wing," what comes to mind are the KKK, Nazis, and the Falange.
You should realise that anything communists disagree with is right-wing.
No doubt.
I think that there's a lot of really interesting phenomena that go on here, but here's what I think generally happens:
1. As one becomes an anarcho-capitalist one becomes increasingly radical but open to new ideas. The things which they are trained from childhood to run away from are then not nearly so scary. This is especially important that they come from the "right" side of the ancaps so that they don't flip shit whenever they see the word "hierarchy", as they would if they were left anarchists
2. In response to the exceedingly leftist nature of the day they start drifting over to more anti-leftist/liberal ideals
3. They start to see some fundamental flaws in anarcho-capitalism. Often times they become convinced through racial, sociological, or economic reasons that some other point of view is right. We can see this in the youtube user spawktalk
4. They see their old reasons for believing what they believe as being silly since they were less intellectually developed at the time. Their extremely radical position causes them to come into conflict with people of different viewpoints. This radicalizes them further
I can't emphasize enough how much having your position attacked can cause you to start to entrench yourself within that ideology, rather than bringing you out of it.
With all of this said that site is extremely interesting. It's possibly the highest quality content that I've seen in some time and that includes libertarian sites. That stuff appears to be well reasoned, well read, and at a very high-quality of discussion. Still I disagree with much of it and I'd argue that they follow into some absurdities
I also don't understand what the hell they're takling about in the current article, or why they seem to be criticizing Nietzsche while at the same time they appear to be heavily influenced by him. In that first article they seem to be waving at shadows. They don't give a clear view of what they hell "trans-humanism" is or who adheres to it.
In the end I think that race is by far the biggest threat to libertarianism as we know it. I've been convinced of this ever since fringelements who produced (and occasionally still does produce) quite high-quality anti-statist material turned around and started spending the vast majority of his time fighting endless battles over the source of racial IQ gaps rather than anti-statist stuff. It's been an issue ever since Rothbard and I think that it's just going to get worse in a time that we need it to get infinitely better.
I think that exactly what the term left or right wing means is incredibly subjective and open to interpretation. I honestly think that it's ludicrous to try to pin libertarianism down as either because it just doesn't fit. I also don't think that Anarcho-capitalism can be considered a "reaction against" anything. It's especially not right wing since it's not really trying to set up an old order or to reinstate a version of "the good old days", nor does it have any of the markings of a truly right-wing reaction/philosophy.
Just because a system exist doesn't mean that you have to force something into that system which doesn't really fit.
Tru dat.
@Neodoxy-- Rothbardians (meaning, those who accept his proclivity for the Old Right) and right wing anarchists simply prefer the value of tradition; it's not about trying to force anything into the system of Anarcho-Capitalism. The right-wing element is simply stating that the Natural Order is inherently non-egalitarian and non-progressive.
And, personally, I do believe in setting up an old order of tradition, like they had in the old days of England, where the State was basically powerless and symbolic.
If you really want to understand the nature of my right-wing beliefs, listen to The Kinks though. ;)
Yes, but that gets into a way of thinking of the right-left paradigm that isn't in the strictly political realm and instead delves into directly social issues. For instance you can have be an anarcho-capitalist, which I argue does not fit into any paradigm, and have a rather "leftist" attitude as to how things should be structured, or you could have a "rightist" or even "libertarian" view on this matter. On these issues I'd still consider myself more libertarian than anything, although I tend slightly more towards the right. Anarcho-capitalism is indeed neutral to these topics.
I'd also like to draw attention to the fact that Rothbard also showed a huge admiration for the "old left" of Mises and Bastiat.
This is what I mean when I say that this entire way of thinking is rather messed up.
Overall, isn't referencing the political spectrum pointless in a way? Politics is all about governance - which is what we are against. In this sense, we should be against the spectrum entirely.
If you really want to understand the nature of my right-wing beliefs, listen to The Kinks though. ;)
Well put.
Well that's true Neodoxy, I do reject Rothbard's analysis of the "old left." I think he was simply confused about the origin of the terms, which came about during the time of the french revolution. Basically, the pinkos won a progressive revolution to institute a radical leftist government, and the right-wingers of the time were counterrevolutionaries against the whole idea, wanting to go back to monarchy. Leftists want a revolution of bigger government, while Rightists want a counterrevolution against bigger government (how far they want to go, being a measure of their radicalism).
The history of the terms sheds light on the whole mess which you describe, and clearly shows that libertarian values are right-wing political values (although not all libertarians are culturally right-wing).
If it's only the left-right spectrum we're talking about then, kinda. Unless we change up the definitions of left and right and say that the farther to the right you move, the less government you favor.
I agree with you for the most part, Neodoxy, but could you expand on why you think race is the biggest threat to libertarianism? I'm just confused on what exactly you're referring to (political strife, demand for nationalism and more statism, accepting racial differences leading to "alt"-rightism, etc.).
In my original post, I wasn't really putting down the content of the site by calling it "flowery" language. It is pretty meta and pretty in-depth material. It is well-written. When I juxtapose that and some of the classic libertarian literature, it just seems to me that the libertarian literature has a better theory of human interaction. I feel like the alt-right blogosphere does a lot of asserting with loaded ideas, and that probably comes from their affinity for "mystical" writings that try and put the "magic" back into civilization.
I don't think there was a merry time where Nietzschean ubermenschen had things to live for, besides maybe nationalist buffoons who die as a political pawn for their masters, sacrificing everything for a misguided notion. I think feudal society sucked for the majority of the people and it robbed them of their dignity as people. I think this idea that somehow if "compassionate slavery", anti-markets, and a totalitarian regime set to enforce the old traditions and mores of this right-wing society is implemented (which is basically Nazi Germany minus the genocide), it isn't going to lead to a lot of happiness. People, while very stupid at-large and showing tendencies toward self-destruction, will demand at least some control over the direction of their lives. Differing opinions and tastes will lead them to different avenues. You can suppress that to some degree, but it won't be anything more than frustrating for a great share of the population. And I think NIetzsche's ideas of struggle helped him cope with his illness and stressful life. I would differ with these guys in that I happen to think "good" struggle is something a little more benign than what they have in mind.
I don't think the race issue is a threat to libertarianism at all. Political correctness and left-wing propaganda has created backlash against it. This is extremely welcome. People who are so worried about feeling and social signalling as to be scared away from libertarianism by such are thing would never be libertarians anyway. Converting the masses is impossible. The vast majority of people are completely immersed in a system of propaganda which they need for their individual and social identity. The best strategy for libertarianism is to build the small, truth-seeking Remnant, and for that to grow mostly through natalism.
Oh god triple response time!
I think that that is a drastic oversimplification of the French Revolution. The Classical Liberals were clearly on the left side of the isle. It just happened that when the Jacobins started going crazy that real classical liberals began to oppose them along with everyone on the right side of the table. While I do believe that Rothbard (and indeed practically all modern libertarians) overemphasizes how libertarian most classical liberals were (I firmly believe that the closest thing to classical liberals are the moderate conservatives/moderate libertarians of our day) they were clearly revolutionary for their day and opposed the real authoritarian/agrarian conservatives.
Political libertarianism means nothing culturally. It is certainly not inherently right wing, although it has classically been so.
Also I'm rather shocked to hear that you believe that Rothbard was confused about anything!
When I say race I'm talking about something rather complex because it ties into a lot of things. Most simply I believe that the belief in "race-realism" and the belief in differences in individual behavior (especially intelligence and capacity for crime) due to race. I believe this to be extremely prevalent due to the user that I cited, historical biases of certain libertarians, biases of modern libertarians, and personal experience where I've seen a number of people go down that route. This might be fine by itself, but libertarianism is already seen as racist by the public and we're seeing an increasingly minority based population. This will make any sort of racism political suicide.
"that probably comes from their affinity for "mystical" writings that try and put the "magic" back into civilization."
This is incredibly well thought. I was amazed to see some of my own thoughts on value in modern civilization reflected within the writings of that site. I suppose it's not too big a stretch, however, as both me and those on the site have apparently been heavily influenced by Nietzsche.
I don't understand Nietzscheans who support nationalism as such. Nationalism and all entrenched/societal values are exactly what kill free spirits. They retard an individual's ability to work/live/think for himself. They prescribe him a way to live which prevents his own ability to live. Indeed I certainly interpret Nietzsche as being extremely anti-nationalist and anti-prejudice. It makes sense to believe in natural community leaders, but the sort of statism and value-revival which they support would appear to be very counter to what I see Nietzsche's vision as being, although I suppose that's why we're on different sides of the isle.
I wish there were more of these people. They're intelligent and extremely opposable. This might make politics an actual intellectual battlefield again. They are everything that the early classical liberals opposed and they would make for much more intimidating opponents than most modern liberals or conservatives. I would judge these people to be on our level from what I have seen thusfar.
I completely disagree. I think that some form of libertarianism either needs to become a mass movement or manifest itself as some sort of secessionary movement if it is to actually take hold. With the current groups in this world who are having children at the fastest rates this is what is going to have to happen and any association with racism could kill the entire movement. I suppose that things might look a little different on the other side of the planet though...
I think that some form of libertarianism either needs to become a mass movement or manifest itself as some sort of secessionary movement if it is to actually take hold.
It cannot become either of those as long as statists control the media, schools, courts etc. (depending on your definition of mass movement). You have to understand that a huge amount of people don't care for the truth, and they certainly aren't going out of their way to find it. What matters more than that is what makes them feel and look good. And in a statist society, what makes them feel and look good is statism.
With the current groups in this world who are having children at the fastest rates this is what is going to have to happen and any association with racism could kill the entire movement.
What exactly are you referring to here? The general population of the West is at replacement rate at best. Say libertarians are 0.5% of the population. If they outbreed the statists 3 to 1, they are a majority in 3 generations.
I suppose that things might look a little different on the other side of the planet though..
Haha I knew I shouldn't have said I'm not American. But I'm sure I know a thousand times more about your country than you do about mine.
1. None of the institutions which you have just mentioned can indefinitely prevent the coming of an anti-statist mass movement if one somehow develops. People can be convinced by those around them and public opinion necessarily consists of more than just what the media and government say/do
2. The rate of replacement doesn't matter if certain groups within the western world are the more statist ones... I kinda don't want to get into the racial stuff that I was talking about earlier but I hope that you can see where I'm going. I also don't think that libertarians are reproducing at a faster rate than statists. If anything I think that it's the opposite, although I have to say that having kids for political reasons is a lot more awesome (and honestly smarter) than the reason that most people normally have kids.
3. "I'm sure I know a thousand times more about your country than you do about mine."
1. My point is that they would most likely prevent one from developing. Authority, social signalling, and emotions are the main avenues through which people reach their beliefs, not honest study.
2. I meant that it would be a useful strategy, not that it is happening right now
Even if the classical liberals associated with the left, that doesn't mean they were left wing. In reality, their positions coincided with the right wing renegades, seeing that the commies were the ones who won the French revolution. Because most of the French revolution lefties wanted a socialist state, I will consider the classical liberals to, practically speaking, be rightists. In addition, I will simply note, as evidence of the truth of my statements, that liberalism is still regarded as right wing in Europe today. Ever since the lefties won the French revolution, it has been.
"Even if the classical liberals associated with the left, that doesn't mean they were left wing."
Why not exactly? What else is being on the left supposed to entail?
It's pretty clear: Bastiat sat on the left wing of the French Legislature. The old conservatives opposed industrialism and the death of privilege while supporting trade barriers, tariffs, serfdom & slavery, militarism, colonialism, and agrarianism. This is an even more perfect form of everything that libertarianism opposes than socialism. In this context libertarianism/classical liberalism clearly WASN'T reactionary; it was revolutionary. The reason why classical liberalism can be considered to be on the right in our day is because, from a modern standpoint, it fits there since conceptions of what is "new", what is "left" and opposing the status quo has changed as the status quo itself has changed.
Implying that classical liberalism fits more comfortably with facism than it does socialism is truly a stretch.
1. I agree, but this does not mean that libertarianism cannot do this. I believe that it really can. See Ron Paul's success as evidence of this. The people who were drawn to him were by no means just the best and brightest, nor just those interested in being well educated in their political views.
You're talking about the so-called centre right, not the right wing counter revolutionaries who sat on the far right. But yeah, you're right, there was a distinction between the conservative right wingers and radical right wingers. The former were just socialists and really were leftists.
This is what I was looking for to explain my original position, Neodoxy. I was worried that it had been lost in the interwebs forever; it was part of the reason I became a "right wing anarchist":
"A good deal of words are wasted by pragmatic-reformist libertarians - desperate to win elections - about how libertarianism stands against both the Left and the Right politically. O, how they despair of being called "extremist", "idealistic", and "un-realistic" and try to explain why their political vision is somehow actually centrist and "reasonable".
Some self-described left-libertarians, taken by the sheer logical consistency of the case for non-aggression and private property, feel the feeble need to trace libertarian back and turn it into a movement of the Left! Even the great Murray Rothbard attempted this silly endeavor before he had the good sense to see himself culturally aligned not with the shrill, moralist egalitarianism of the Left, but with the palaeoconservatives of the Right. It's a sad sight to see and a discouraging sound to hear and, beyond those misfortunes, I find it historically and logically incoherent. The true libertarian (agorist, anarchist, capitalist) is the very epitome of Right-Wing political sympathies and is in stark contrast to every possible form of Leftism, the common denominator of which is support for democracy.
Before we can go any further, a good working definition of Left and Right is required. Many people, even many thinkers, consider the United States Democratic Party to be vaguely Leftist and the United States Republican Party to be vaguely of the Right. The social democratic parties of Europe are generally seen as Leftist and the Euro-skeptic, liberal, market-oriented, monarchist, and-or nationalist parties of Europe are viewed as Rightist. Some of these classifications are more true than others and, as we shall see, the only way to separate the wheat from the chaff is by method of historical interpretation.
We can derive a theory of what constitutes Left and Right from history itself. Unlike a science such as praxeology, which is primordial and cannot be taken from history, political traditions are purely human creations and their defining qualities can be known from the context of their historical origins.
The origins of the political categories Left and Right lie with the infamous French Revolution of 1789. With the storming of the Bastille and the subsequent overthrow of the customary and traditional Ancien Regime of King, Church, and Aristocracy, the succession of Revolutionary legislatures were divided into several partisan factions, each with competing political ideals and loyalties.
It must be recognized that legislation, the institution of a legislature, and "positive law", were a fairly modern innovation and largely the product of the Enlightenment. The traditional Occidental understanding of law was grounded in the Classical Graeco-Roman (largely Aristotelian-Thomistic) notion of lex naturalis, or Natural Law. This law was ahistorical, logically derived, and absolutely unchanging. Law was something to be discovered and interpreted through internally consistent legal reasoning, not an edifice to be built up by the positive and whimsical creativity of political rulers. It is not so surprising, then, that there was a genuine diversity of ideological opinion in the early French legislatures (including a robust contingent of anti-legislative and anti-parliamentary leaders) but that said diversity would erode over time as legislatures became progressively more dominated by pro-legislative and pro-parliamentary officials and the socialistic tendencies they inevitably follow.
The political spectrum in the successive Revolutionary French legislatures - National Assembly, National Constituent Assembly, Legislative Assembly, National Convention, and Directory - was split between revolutionaries, who sat to the left of the speaker, and conservatives and reactionaries, who sat to the right of the speaker. The major and definitive ideological difference between these two broad groups was the degree to which they supported either democracy (left-revolutionary) or monarchy (right-conservative/reactionary).
An important note that might be added is the fact that by no means was liberalism (in the original, European sense; or what might be termed Classical Liberalism) confined solely to the democratic Left. As Classical Liberalism is essentially an individualist political philosophy stressing the importance of freedom and liberty of association, commerce, conscience, exchange, press, religion, trade, et cetera, it appeals much more to the aristocratic tendencies of the traditional Right than to the conformist-majoritarian tyranny worshipped by Leftists. While Classical Liberalism is fatally flawed in its traditional insistence on the existence of a "minimal" or "night-watchman" state, its fundamental emphasis on the achievement and creativity of the individual, and advocacy of the general conditions necessary to allow those to flourish, is an aristocratic and noble tendency.
Joseph-Marie, Comte de Maistre, perhaps the most cutting and vehement reactionary critic of the entire structure of Enlightenment-Modernity that was embodied in the French Revolution, was himself a free-trade Physiocrat in the mold of Anne Robert Jacques Turgot, Baron de Laune. Remember that the Physiocrats were the intellectual precursors of the French Liberal School of economics, containing such great minds as Jean-Baptiste Say, Claude Frederic Bastiat, and Gustave de Molinari (the first theorist of anarcho-capitalism). That same French Liberal School would lay the groundwork for the even more laissez-faire Austrian School of economics that would produce Ludwig von Mises, Murray Newton Rothbard, and Hans-Hermann Hoppe.
For more on aristocratic support for freedom of religion, see the 17th Century English example; the High-Anglican and Roman Catholic monarchists and agrarian conservatives were against the persecution of religious minorities while the doctrinaire, lower-class, pietist (and more democratic) Puritans who dominated Parliament were in favor of such persecution, particularly of Roman Catholics. It was this group of democratic anti-liberals and Protestant radicals that overthrew the Jacobite King James II in the Inglorious Revolution of 1689 (ironic, perhaps, that it was 100 years before the French Revolution) and replaced him with the more parliamentarian pretenders, William and Mary.
Returning to the original political spectrum from which we obtain the categories Left and Right, we can see the four partisan factions in relatively clear fashion. On the Far Left, including the Jacobins, we see the supporters of continual revolution, direct democracy, and mob-rule generally. At their most extreme (Robespierre) they envisioned the Rousseauvian General Will of "the people" embodied, entirely democratically, in a single dictator charged with inflicting a Reign of Terror on the enemies of the Revolution. If the dictator is in power by the will of the majority, how can he violate the principles of democracy at all? These democratic extremists were impatient with prevailing distributions of wealth and saw the democratic state as a means toward radical socialist redistribution in favor of the lower classes in general and the less productive of those lower classes in particular. Furthermore, they were anti-traditional nationalists who desired, ultimately, the "brotherhood of mankind", but would settle in the mean time for attempting to amalgamate and centralize the incredibly diverse cultures found in the country of France.
On the Center-Left stood the constitutional republicans, who were a generally bourgeois and liberal phenomenon. They imagined a governmental system with a written constitution, Montesquieuian "separation of powers", and almost universal suffrage. They were less antagonistic to inequality of income and wealth than were the Far Left, but shared the more extreme revolutionaries' radical political egalitarianism and support for democracy, albeit "liberal" and representative rather than direct and wholeheartedly revolutionary.
While the defining characteristic of the original Left was support for democracy (direct or representative), the central feature of the original Right was monarchism of various shades. The Center Right was composed of constitutional monarchists who were parliamentarians but also advocated the partial sovereignty of the Bourbons. Liberalism was also prevalent in the Center Right, and they could be seen as the Left-Wing of the aristocrats and clergy. Importantly, the constitutional monarchists were much more skeptical of the merits of universal suffrage than were the Leftists.
Finally, and most importantly, we examine the Far Right. These were the out-and-out Ancien Regime monarchists, who would later organize as the Ultra-Royalists and Legitimists. The Far Right demanded the unqualified return of the Bourbons to political sovereignty, dissolution of the Revolutionary legislatures, abolition of the various Revolutionary constitutions and "declarations of the rights of man", and immediate enforcement of property and tradition through custom and law. The aristocrats and the clergy, the First and Second Estates, were the major groups represented in the royalist camp, and they included thinkers who recognized the inherent economic, ethical, and political superiority of monarchy to every form of democracy, ideas that are being echoed this day in the brilliant writings of Professor Hans-Hermann Hoppe. The King was the owner of the country, not its temporary caretaker or renter, and he had every material and psychic incentive to preserve its capital value over the course of his lifetime and beyond, that it might be passed on to be enjoyed by his heirs and posterity. Unlike democratic, populist rulers, who had no reason not to use their offices to exploit all the resources of the country before their terms were up, the King minimized his interference with the workings of the economy (at least in a relative sense).
The argument in favor of monarchy is essentially the argument in favor of the utilitarian superiority of private property to public property. Perhaps one can see where a libertarian anarcho-capitalist may be headed with this line of reasoning. How can I, as such an anarchic capitalist, possibly support the principle of monarchy? Not only do I advocate monarchy, I say it ought to be universalized! That is, "every man a king"! Down with democracy, give me liberty and property instead! If every actor is sovereign over his or her own body and property we are in a state of universalized monarchy, otherwise known as anarchy. The ONLY government that exists is individual hereditary government over the self and private property, which is to say that the ONLY government that exists is monarchy. That is what we anarchic-capitalists desire... So tell me now, do you really still think libertarianism is beyond Left and Right?
Give me monarchy, or give me death!"
Are you really saying that the supporters of the ancien regime were socialists and that classical liberals could be seen as "radical right wingers" who are counter revolutionaries? The whole original point of the left wing and right wing was to separate those who supported and those who opposed the French Revolution which later manifested itself into a more anti and pro ancien regime state. Classical liberals certainly supported the original intent of the French Revolution, which eventually spiraled way out of control.
See the longer post. ;)
"Are you really saying that the supporters of the ancien regime were socialists and that classical liberals could be seen as "radical right wingers" who are counter revolutionaries?"
No. I'm saying that the centre-right had some more socialistic and protectionist tendencies (and in that way agreed with the leftist idea of redistribution). On the other hand, the ultra right--the ones I admire--didn't have this tendency, and believed in property rights. In fact, some of them shared classical liberal economics philosophy, but simply combined it with tradition.
I would think anything "reactionary" would be an automatically self defeating position
"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann
"When A Man Dies A World Goes Out of Existence" - GLS Shackle
Very well written and clear enough to fortunately avoid tl;dr
That was very interesting and insightful, but with this said I think that it fails in ultimately fulfilling its goals because
It does indeed seem to be a much more "rightist" interpretation of things, but I find the infatuation with monarchy especially gross. At best it's a necessary evil. It should never be celebrated.
Also, libertarianism has its roots in classical liberalism, not far-rightism. I also think that the idea that the primary concerns of the ultra-rightists were really the arguments employed by Hoppe and not the mystical (even more so than ultra-egalitarianism) concepts of the divine right of kings. Even worse they supported the only suitable stance of any libertarian in relation to government: marginalization and limitation.
Could you elaborate?
wow, just read a couple articles - strange site.
One could level a disdain for such views in the same way one could do the same for radical leftists - they are "coffee house revolutionaries" as Schumpeter calls them...but only more silly because they are reactionaries, and judging by their writing style, not ready for a blog just yet (Mencius Moldbug like him or not however, is).
Also if you hate "the progressive left" (and I kind of do) it IS FUN to play épater le bourgeois with them every once in awhile - but I think these guys went off the deep end and took at all a bit too seriously, or they're just simply not that clever.
+ 1 Aristippus
The reason why some Libertarians are going further right? Take a look at Sweden. Honestly, just any recent news article that focuses on domestic issues from Sweden.
The Anarch is to the Anarchist what the Monarch is to the Monarchist.
-Ernst Jünger
Anarcho-capitalism is naturally hostile to democracy since it tends to undermine property rights and, being extremely hostile to socialism for obvious reasons, anarcho-capitalism is also hostile to the New Culture, since it sees this (rightly IMO) as an aspect of the slow socialist revolution (ordo ab chao)*. So, then, we have an anarcho-capitalism which is hostile to the two chief deities of modern society in the West. If this is what is meant by "reactionary," then it makes perfect sense to me that anarcho-capitalism would be reactionary. As the OP mentioned, there is within this reactionary strain a sense of being participants in a battle for civilization, and this finds expression in sentimental, sometimes hyperbolic, and definitely un-PC statements. We, who understand that civilization is a product of respect for property rights, are the civilized men, manning the walls against hordes of socialist barbarians. There's a siege mentality. I'm familiar with these sentiments, because I share them, I've expressed them here on occasion. So, I guess I'm saying: yea, I'm a reactionary, what of it?
*Note, this hostility has nothing necessarily to do with the personal morality of the anarcho-capitalist. That is, opposition to the new (im)morality is not necessarily founded on ethical grounds at all, but might be driven purely by worry about its impact on society. For example, I myself am an atheist, but I worry about the decline of Christianity in the West, because I wonder what will replace it - and the State seems like a probable replacement for God.
P.S. Another interesting reactionary tome is "The Closing of the American Mind," by Allan Bloom.
I'd think that as well. A reactionary is just against change. That is not enough imo.
I read some, and skimmed most of the articles there. Though much is interesting, I keep finding the same issue with far-rightists: they seem much too interested in poetic talk to give a clear image of the society they seek. Past all the talk of "inherent conflict" and "nature", I still cannot see what they seek, besides expressing frustration at the world as it is.
This was and still is my impression of Nietzsche, of the precursors of Fascism and a few other such 'traditionalists'.
Perhaps I'm wrong but ideologies which really heavily on literary effect to make their muddled point are suspect to me, as they seem to shoot for emotional effect instead of logic. And to think that libertarianism is there expressively accused of using religious-like memes to make its point!
For an example closer to home, the general libertarian feel you get form the LvMI seems to me to be superior to that emanating from Molineux, who again relies heavily on emotional and literary effect. Hadn't it been for such clarity form the LvMI, I would hardly have become a libertarian myself.
And let's not ever repeat John Ess' point here: that it befits any ideology seemingly placing virility, courage and such manly virtues at the top to clearly prove how its very followers conform to such ideals. Perhaps it would make the whole think less confused (but then again, had any exponent of Nazism conformed to the stereotype of the "Aryan", that particular ideology too could have survived the war).
All in all, I think I will keep reading what they write. Perhaps there really is nothing more than frustration there.
Hadn't it been for such clarity form the LvMI, I would hardly have become a libertarian myself.
+++++++++++++1 Merlin
The dispassoinate approach of Mises is a real break from the vast, vast majority of discussion of matters with any social dimension to them. Motivated belief has become so common that the moment you find some unmotivated, rational discussion, it's like you realize you've been drinking some kind of ideological sludge your whole life and now that you've found clean, healthy, natural water, you can't even bear to taste a drip of the old stuff.
Neodoxy:I completely disagree. I think that some form of libertarianism either needs to become a mass movement or manifest itself as some sort of secessionary movement if it is to actually take hold. With the current groups in this world who are having children at the fastest rates this is what is going to have to happen and any association with racism could kill the entire movement. I suppose that things might look a little different on the other side of the planet though...
What does what Aristippus said have anything to do with race?
Clayton -
In the end I think that race is by far the biggest threat to libertarianism as we know it. I've been convinced of this ever since fringelements who produced (and occasionally still does produce) quite high-quality anti-statist material turned around and started spending the vast majority of his time fighting endless battles over the source of racial IQ gaps rather than anti-statist stuff. It's been an issue ever since Rothbard and I think that it's just going to get worse in a time that we need it to get infinitely better.
In the end I think that race is by far the biggest threat to libertarianism as we know it. I've been convinced of this ever since fringelements who produced (and occasionally still does produce) quite high-quality anti-statist material turned around and started spending the vast majority of his time fighting endless battles over the source of racial IQ gaps rather than anti-statist stuff. It's been an issue ever since Rothbard and I think that it's just going to get worse in a time that we need it to get infinitely better.
Considering how the anti-racist knee-jerk response is a product of the educational establishment, an considering how Fringe has made it very clear why he fights the battle on his particular ground, i.e. that IQ gaps are often treated as sources of some sort of institutionally driven form of inequality, I cannot agree. True, this isn't an inherently libertarian issue but libertarians have interests outside of their own ideology and I think it is brave of him to take on an area mired in absurdity. We do this with the global warming cult, too. Just because people have been indoctrinated into a particular ideology, and therefore combatting it can be a source of unpopularity, does not mean the nonsense should go unopposed.
I also reject that minorities increasing in numbers in the future poses an issue in this respect. Assuming that China and India don't collapse and that their populations aren't, for whatever reason, decimated due to statist failures or catastrophes, they are hardly going to take offence to race realism, and I would argue that these countries probably do not reject the idea of it, unlike brainwashed liberal western democracies. I don't know about Brazil, but I assume it is similar in that regard. Russia, too, a major future power-broker and predominantly white, is not mired in silly egalitarian myths anymore. There is a whole world outside the US. Even so, their own birthrates are going to reverse into decline eventually as well as they grow richer. The only reason minorities in the US are increasing still is because they are not yet as affluent as the rest of the population. Moreover, race realism isn't a position against minorities as it advocates nothing on the political level; if some people draw out political implications thence, it is due to their own premises. It does point out why various government programmes do nothing to help them soi-disant minorities, in spite the supposedly noble intentions that drive these policies. Besides, many of these minorities might comprise individuals who are or might become conservative, and as such emphasising the harmony of libertarianism with preserving their values (that aren't contradictory to the NAP) might actually increase our following.
I realise that some people have a vested interest in pretending that reality is other than it is. E.g. women can pretend all they wish that they are the more intelligent gender and that wage gaps are due to males oppressing them and keeping them down. In part, the governent does make discrimination easier, even through its anti-discrimination laws (as these make employers reluctant to touch employees who can be a legal minefield for them if anything goes wrong.) However, are we therefore supposed to pretend there are no sex-driven differences, just because we want to pander to women? It makes no sense to me. Nor does it make sense to me to pretend AGW is occuring just because the majority of public school troglodyes believe that the IPCC has declared the issue as resolved for all posterity, in the name of science.
A lot of bad policy is driven by even worse science. Now a lot of this stuff is debatable and the minutiae are lost in avenues such as YT discussions, so it might be worth avoiding them on that prudential ground. If you think that minorities are egalitarian in mindset, however, and not prone to racism, you should look a little harder. Libertarianism comes with the right to dissociate as well as to associate, and is the only ideology that can calmly and peacefully reconcile the desire of certain groups to remain at arms length distance but still trade and therefore profit from one another. I also think you should forget of the US as it is today. It is unstable and will eventually fracture. Forcing people to get along and sweeping their disagreements or unwillingness to associate with each other is not a proscription for progress.
You ought not to confuse race-realism with racist political ideologies. The only reason FE brings it up and discusses it, besides the intellectual dishonesty of those who oppose it, is that its contrary is evoked in all sorts of policy proscriptions. I don't take a stance on the matter as yet but so far I think FE has more than made the case for his position, and I think he is a good counter to the likes of Stefbot in some regards, who whilst he makes some good points re parenting, can often veer into the 100% environmental determinist camp, perhaps due to unintentional sloppiness.
An intellectual revolution is necessary and it will take a long time for it to be consummated. I for one see no harm in exercising the right of dissociation entailed by libertarianism or explaining how it may be exercised. At the moment, the precise opposite to this is communicated by the establishment (the duty of forced association) and it is a mentally sick ideology that needs to be hacked away. Libertarianism is at odds with nearly every single element of modern "academia". It is at the heart of most voluntary interactions. Most people are indoctrinated by the state and are in a position of false consciousnss whereby they assent to voluntaryist principles in their personal lives, but believe in statist hogwash on the intellectual level because... well because the government told them to, and taught them not to think outside the boxes it defines! Opposing Keynesianism alone probably does it more damage than some libertarians making allusions to race-realism.
Echoing Minarchist's point, whilst anarcho-capitalism is neutral to personal morals, one can still tie in libertarianism with traditional mores. In fact, the virtue of anarcho-capitalism could be seen as the fact that it will crush the state, which stands in the way of the development of organic structures, such as the family or Hoppe's "natural elites", which could provide integrity and cohesion to such a society. There is always the risk of replacing old sources of illegitimate authority with new ones, and we don't obviously want a return to the abusive familial relations that dominated prior to the present era. I think there is a huge problem in defending tradition for its own sake. I include in this vision communists who would subjugate the individual to their beloved commune, in the name of "freedom".
Yet I also believe a purely atomistic, "survival of the fittest" anarchist society (the caricature of Objectivism) that saw no value in anything but monetary reward would not last, either. Humans are not conditioned in that manner, nor do many anarcho-capitalists argue in this way. They are still free to exist, however, and may do well. Who knows. Likewise, conservative leftists like communitarians, but also the egalitarian anarcho-communist sort, could also institute their own societies provided they did not aggress against anyone. There would be a lot of competition between such arrangements. So it is understandable for libertarians to try and draw a picture of how an e.g. liberal or traditionalist society would function in this context.
Of course it isn't libertarianism's role to imbue people's life with meaning. It is just there to delineate justifiable from unjustifiable actions. The state falls into the latter category. However, as per the above, libertarians do the ideology justice by showing how the institutions (including for-profit firms, and the dreaded MNC) that could arise under it would supersede and exceed the state in providing this "meaning" that people seek.
Re monarchies, I am favourably inclined to them. I've always had a love for them and inegalitarian social arrangements i.e. aristocracy. If the choice were between any democratic form of organisation, and an indifferent laissez-faire, laissez-passer monarchy, I'd be happy with that, though obviously I'd have an even stronger preference to see anarcho-capitalism materialise. Such micro-monarchies might arise in conjunction with it all the same.
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...


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A skin ulcer is an open sore in the skin. Pyoderma gangrenosum is an uncommon form of skin ulcers. It usually occurs on the lower legs, but can occur anywhere on the skin.
Pyoderma gangrenosum is thought to be caused by a problem with the immune system. The immune system finds and attacks foreign items in the body like viruses. Sometimes the immune system attacks the body's own tissue. In this case, the immune system attacks an area of the skin.
Risk Factors
Pyoderma gangrenosum is more likely to occur in people who have other underlying medical conditions, such as:
The main symptom of pyoderma gangrenosum is a painful skin ulcer. These ulcers may begin as small-irritated bumps from an injury. However, the ulcer can grow up to 7.9 in (inches) (20 cm [centimeters]). The ulcers often have purple edges that appear worn away.
Your doctor will ask about your symptoms and medical history. A physical exam will be done. You may be referred to a skin specialist. Pyoderma gangrenosum is diagnosed by its appearance. Your doctor will also want to rule out other conditions that can cause skin ulcers.
To look for other factors that could cause ulcers, your doctor may order:
- Sample of ulcer fluids—to look for infection or items that can cause infection
- Biopsy—a sample of tissue
- Blood tests
Talk with your doctor about the best treatment plan for you. Treatment options include:
Steroid Medications and Cyclosporine
Oral steroid medications and cyclosporine are the first line of treatment for most. These medications are used to help calm the body's immune system. This should stop or slow the attack on the skin.
Smaller ulcers may be treated with a topical steroid cream or an injection.
Other Medications
There are a variety of medications that can help calm the immune system. Your doctor may choose other medications based on other medical conditions you may have. You may also be able to better tolerate some medications over others.
Talk to your doctor about which medications may work best for you.
Preventing New Ulcers
Ulcers often begin at the site of injuries. Take precaution to prevent injuries when possible. Wear proper safety gear and avoid high impact or full contact activities.
See your doctor as soon as you notice a possible ulcer.
Revision Information
- Reviewer: Marcin Chwistek, MD
- Review Date: 12/2013 -
- Update Date: 01/13/2014 -


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Timothy Peters and his Red Horse Racing team will be one of several teams testing at Martinsville Speedway this week in preparation for the KROGER 250 on Saturday, March 29.
Kasey Kahne raced to a 12th-place finish in the Geico 500, but missed the Chase by three points. He was one of three Hendrick Motorsports drivers who were eliminated in the Contender round along with Jimmie Johnson and Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Kyle Busch entered the Geico 500 with a 26-point cushion over the elimination bubble and as such was the most likely driver to advance to the Eliminator round on points. He raced conservatively in the back of the pack for most of the race, but was run over from behind on lap 104 when Aric Almirola and JJ Yeley triggered a 10-car accident. Busch finished 40th.
Landon Cassill earned his first career top-10 in the NASCAR Cup series after finishing fourth in the Geico 500. His previous best result was an 11th, also scored on this track in the spring.
It was the worst finish of the season for Doug Coby. But in the end, it didn't matter, as the Milford, Connecticut driver lifted the NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour trophy for the second time in three seasons Sunday.
The semi-final race of the 2014 NASCAR Mexico Toyota Series gave fans everything they could have hoped for, drama, lead changes, lots of passing and in the end it was Rubén Rovelo who found his way to Victory Lane.
Ryan Newman's Chevrolet failed post-race inspection after finishing fifth in the Geico 500. His car's rear end was too low.
Last week Matt Kenseth had Brad Keselowski in a headlock after the Bank of America 500 following post-race contact in their cars. This week, he found himself in a position where pushing Keselowski was his best opportunity to advance in the Chase. Kenseth finished second in the Geico 500.
Brad Keselowski was in a must win situation entering the Geico 500 and he survived two green-white-checkered attempts to take the checkers first and advance to the Eliminator round. He led only 12 laps total.
Woody Pitkat's breakout campaign continues in the season finale as he secured the Coors Light Pole Award for the Sunoco World Series 150 presented by Xtra Mart in NASCAR Whelen Modified Tour action at Thompson Speedway Motorsports Park.
Joe Nemechek had his time disallowed by NASCAR because of an oil tank encasement that was improperly sealed. Reed Sorenson was the first driver who failed to make the show, so Nemechek's disqualification elevates the No. 36 into to the field.


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Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8pm EST / 5pm PST
Hosted by Open-i
Location: Wimba Webinar RoomThe "Security Room" photo of the White House National Security team generated days of analysis throughout the internet. The unreleased photograph of Osama Bin Laden's corpse generated polarizing discussions over the visual politics of his death. At this BagNews Salon, an expert panel will analyze images of one of the most anticipated moments in American international politics over the past decade. How was it visualized by the government and the media, and what does that coverage reveal about domestic politics, political and media biases and long building expectations for this event? The BagNewsSalon brings together the eyes and voices of the world's leading photojournalists, visual academics and other highly-informed observers to analyze select edits of news photographs in a 90 minute on-line discussion format. Discussants include: Pete Brook — Lead blogger Wired's Raw File. Publisher, Prison Photography Kenny Irby - Senior Faculty / Visual Journalism & Diversity, The Poynter Institute Justin Elliott - reporter, Salon Jared Keller - Associate editor for The Atlantic and The Atlantic Wire Loret Steinberg, Professor of Photojournalism and Documentary Photography/R.I.T. Lindsay Beyerstein - Investigative journalist, photographer, blogger at Big Think/Focal Point. Alan Chin, Editor & Contributing Photographer, BagNews Originals Michael Appleton, freelance photojournalist Michael Shaw, Publisher, BagNewsNotes Cara Finnegan Professor of Communication – U. of Illinois, Co-editor: Visual Rhetoric: a reader in communication and American culture), publisher, first efforts, Moderator, BagNews Salon
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Ludwig von Mises: "Man is not, like the animals, an obsequious puppet of instincts and sensual impulses. Man has the power to suppress instinctive desires, he has a will of his own, he chooses between incompatible ends." - The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science
database of quotations from Mises was prepared for
The Quotable Mises edited by Mark Thornton, available from the
Mises Institute store
for $20. Send corrections to the editor.
Here is a source page on
the editions of the books referenced.
Put Mises quotes on your site.


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How To Make Root Vegetable Bread Dumplings
When you hear the word dumpling, what does it make you think of? Asian pot stickers? How about tamales, ravioli or bread pudding? Well according to the authors of The Dumpling, those all fit into the same category, and they set out to show us how through a big batch of Hungarian bread dumplings.
The cookbook The Dumpling: A Seasonal Guide sets out to categorize an elusive food that transcends cultures and continents. Defined as "a portion of dough, batter or starchy plant fare, solid or filled, that's cooked through wet heat, and is not a strand or a ribbon" the book walks the reader through seasons (it's broken up by month) and wildly different recipes from a Australian dessert dumpling called Cocky's Joy to Masa Ball Soup.
The emphasis is on variety, home cooking, the history of dumplings, the seasons and then, to make it all that much easier to approach, each chapter begins with the easiest recipe and ends with the most complex.
One of the authors, Wai Hon Chu, was there to guide us through how to make Root Vegetable Bread Dumplings, one of the easier recipes in the December chapter and a recipe that hails from Hungary (there it's called Zoldseggomboc). The recipe calls for parsnips, turnips and mushrooms, but you could easily substitute other root vegetables and squash, or fresh vegetables in the springtime. Overall this is a satisfying dish that would be a big hit for a potluck party or for feeding a bunch of people. The ingredients are simple and the how to is pretty straightforward. We were surprised how easy a dumpling could be since we had visions of fancy tools and complex techniques.
Root Vegetable Bread Dumplings
2 Tablespoons unsalted butter
1/2 small yellow onion, chopped fine
1 medium carrot, cut into 1/4 cubes
1 large parsnip, peeled and cubed
1 small turnip or kohirabi peeled and cubed
4 large cremini mushrooms, chopped fine
1 tsp salt
2 Tablespoons chopped flat leaf parsley
For the dough:
4 cups 1/2 inch crustless white bread cubes
2/3 cup of milk
1 large egg, beaten
1/3 cup unbleached flour plus some for dusting
1/2 tsp of salt
1/2 cup coarse dry crustless bread crumbs
For Serving:
6 Tablespoons melted butter
salt and pepper (and paprika!)
Sour Cream
1. Do all the chopping of bread and veggies so you're ready.
2. Heat up a small pot over medium heat and melt the butter, add the onion and stir until soft, add in the remaining vegetables and salt and cook for 3 minutes. Stir in 1/2 cup of water, cover and simmer for 15 minutes. Stir occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out.
3. Once the mixture has browned, remove vegetables from heat and add in parsley and allow to cool slightly.
4. Mix breadcrumbs and milk in a bowl and mix until doughy. Do this with your hands, let it get squishy and gluteny and like paste.
5. Mix in the egg, flour and salt and finally add the slightly cooled vegetables. Refridgerate for about 20 minutes.
6. The fun part: using wet hands start molding the dough into little balls (th size of ping pongs), dust with flour and place on a tray.
7. In a large pot, boil salted water, when all the dough has been molded into balls, drop a few at a time into boiling water, reduce heat to a simmer. Cook about 8 minutes or until most are floating. Remove to platter with a slotted spoon.
8. Top serve, drizzle with melted butter, sprinkle with salt and pepper and a little paprika if you want to spice it up and a generous portion of sour cream!.
A big thank you to Wai for teaching us this great recipe and for sharing his labor of love, The Dumpling, with us! And another thank you to Yvette Roman for setting it up and letting us use her gorgeous kitchen!
• Buy the book: The Dumpling: A Seasonal Guide by Wai Hon Chu and Connie Lovatt, $23.10 at Amazon
Related: Recipe: Kenny Lao's Rickshaw Dumplings
(Images: Laure Joliet)
Per serving, based on 4 servings. (% daily value)
10 Comments
When I hear "dumpling" I immediately think Chicken and Dumplings. My great-grandmother made the best chicken and dumplings that none of us in the younger generations have been able to completely duplicate yet.
This book looks awesome! I'm intrigued by the seasonality factor, so I will have to check it out.
My stomach growled reading this article. I've never tried dumplings, and this recipe is perfectly timed, with my boyfriend becoming a vegetarian. Perfect for a winter night!
I made these a few weeks ago for vegetarians and non vegetarians and they were a wonderful side dish perfect for late fall. I was pleased at how simple they were to make and clear the instructions were. They book has so many interesting and varied dumplings. I am excited to make the sweet sticky rice dessert offerings soon.
@madhatter, I also thought of chicken and dumplings. My grandmother's are nothing but biscuit dough cooked in the broth leftover from cooking the chicken. And they are the best things ever--I really want some now, actually.
I have this cookbook and I love it. But the recipes are all complicated and pretty difficult. It's not a quick-weeknight-dinner cookbook for sure. This is one of the easiest recipes, and it takes a good hour or so to make.
Anybody have a quicker homemade dumpling recipe?
My mother had a fail-safe dumpling recipe for chicken and dumplings: Bisquick. The key was the white wine in the chicken broth below. A regular drop biscuit recipe works beautifully as a dumpling. Be sure and drop the dough on top of the vegetables and not into the broth or the dumpling bottoms will be gummy. I love cooking dumplings over simmering blueberries or strawberries and serving it with yogurt. yummmm.
Hungarian bread dumplings?? Never heard of such a thing! Hungarians tend to make noodles... I'm Czech, and well-versed in the many types of dumplings, bread (the standard type) and otherwise (yeast, baking powder, fried bread dumplings, cooked potato, raw potato, farina, filled with smoked meat, and not, as well as noky... and then of course, all the fruit dumpling varieties!).
I've looked up Hungarian Dumplings on the internet, and there sure aren't many of the recipes around, but the few that are seem to be the standard Czech version... possibly the original source?
Dumplings are pretty common in Hungarian cooking. I grew up eating these bread dumplings with an amazing root vegetable sauce called "vadas." When they're simply bread dumplings they're called zsemlegombóc. Zöldség means vegetable.
Segedínsky guláš may a very common goulash in the Czech Republic, but its origin is indisputably Hungarian... Despite Weiner Schnitzel's name and its popularity in Vienna, the dish comes from Milan. So too with bread dumplings; while they may pop up in other cuisines (German, Hungarian), it is a Czech recipe. Bohemia, Moravia, Hungary... they were all part of one empire for almost 300 years, and recipes were exchanged!
yummy! these remind me of indian bread pakoras a little bit.


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This year, however, we're in a unique position, as a group of investors, including Calaveras Enterprise publisher Ralph Alldredge, are in the process of purchasing our publication. A federal bankruptcy court approved the purchase of the Irrigator and its sister publications last week, and there is a possibility that we may be under new ownership by the time Election Day rolls around on Nov. 6.
As a result, we have decided against endorsing any candidates this year, as our prospective owners will certainly come with new, fresh ideas of their own.
At the same time, we urge local residents to remain politically engaged and to pay close attention to this year's political races and state propositions.
We're including statements from this year's two mayoral candidates in today's edition and aim to have similar information from the remaining City Council candidates in the Oct. 25 edition. We also interviewed candidates for the Del Puerto Health Care District, which can be found in the Oct. 11 edition of the Irrigator.
We urge our readers to read these statements closely to get a grasp of each candidate's vision and to take a look back at each candidate's personal and political track record.
If the West Side is to move forward in a positive direction, we need the best candidates we can find to serve in political office. It's up to members of the public to educate themselves and help ensure that happens.


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