text:
Microsoft's Windows 7 price gamble opens door to Linux
Ubuntu creator Mark Shuttleworth is itching for a clean fight with Microsoft on netbooks. Shuttleworth once told The Reg he can't wait for Windows 7 on this sub-laptop class of machines because it'll finally give Ubuntu the opportunity to compete fairly against Microsoft's operating system in this emerging market. OEMs have …
Wanna bet?
So Windows 7 netbook will cost $50 more. So what? Wanna bet if people will buy Linux netbook (and suffer its shortcomings) to save 50 bucks on a $300 purchase? Haven't we been on this road before? Two years of netbook history says Windows has already KO'ed Linux in the netbook ring . Early versions were all Linux, remember?
People seem to forget that netbook vendors will have added cost of support and returns with Linux netbooks. Because of this, linux netbooks will have actually *less* operating margin than W7 netbooks, not the other way around as the article suggests.
Price point my @$$
I say they'll drop the price come crunch time. It'll be halfway between the XP price and the 'leaked' price - maybe 35.
I say this is a deliberate leak once again and is most likely bollocks,
Shuttleworth's bad timing
Recent upgrades in Ubuntu, Shuttleworth's distribution of Linux, have managed to cause lots of hardware to stop working. My own computers have stopped playing any audio and stopped working with my web cams. There are lots of questions on linuxquestions.org complaining of hardware problems when using Ubuntu and its derivatives. If you read the ubuntuforums.org you will see that there are lots of questions posted there about hardware that was working and has stopped following some update. The Canonical team has really messed up and there is no indication that they have any interest in fixing these many hardware compatibility problem.
If you want to try Linux I would have to recommend PC Linux OS (pclinuxos.com). Their 2009.1 product appears to be working fairly well with a broad range of hardware. Unfortunately, as with all Linux distributions, there is no guarantee that any given update will break a hardware driver and leave you with a crippled machine and no idea if the developers even want to fix the problem that they created.
Mind you I hate Microsnot but I also am very frustrated with the way that Linux distributions are managed by their developers.
And don't even think about mentioning Macintosh. Those overpriced smug boxes are getting almost as many viruses as Windows computers.
Forget it!
Microsoft has successfully managed to block Linux on the two most important fronts : the OEMs and the retailers. You have to be blind AND stupid to miss the evidence. First, we have a string of important retailers stating as one single voice that there is no user demand for Linux installed machines they never intended to offer for sale anyway. Second, the humiliation of Jonney Shih the chairman of Asustek, who after a meeting with Microsoft corporate vice president, OEM Division, Steven Guggenheimer had to apologize for a Linux netbook that Asustek has displayed at Computex Taipei in Taiwan recently (see the whole article at http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133813).
This clears the way for Microsoft to recover the loss incurred by the sale of Windows XP Home edition at an extremely low price at the expense of world wide Windows fans.
Now Linux users will still be able to get their OS at the same low price as usual and if they manage to avoid paying the Microsoft tax, they will be the real winners here.
Note to Windows enthusiasts : next time you'd better support Linux even if you have no intention of ever using it. Just look at how cheap you got Windows XP for netbooks because of the little cuddly penguin.
Buried in the small-print
"The situation is complicated by the fact that the Starter Edition price is generally not disclosed. This version of Windows is an OEM-only edition and pricing comes down to how far OEMs can arm wrestle Microsoft, with agreements then locked up under NDA."
...as has been the case for two or three decades, but the EU chooses to challenge MS on the issue of web browser standards compliance. Talk about missing the point.
I gotta hand it to Microsoft, they clearly know how to pull the wool over a regulators eyes.
Canonical not realistic
(Good article by the way - shame that the voting panel wasn't visible)
Much as I'd like to see something other than Windows on netbooks, you've got to be realistic - it's not going to happen. Shuttleworth is right - Win7 _is_ pretty good, and you can bet your last 10 cents that Ballmer and co. are going to make damn sure that the door to other OS's is well and truly slammed shut. I currently run Win7RC on VMware (on an Ubuntu host!) and, assuming that the price is right, then I'll definitely be using it to replace my current XP Pro install on my desktop.
Personally, I think that there's enough market for both Linux and Windows. Put Windows 7/XP (imho - to use a Regism - Vista is an epic fail) on the 11"+ $400+ "netbooks". Meanwhile Ubuntu Netbook Remix and others would fit nicely on the proper netbooks - the small, light and _inexpensive_ devices (<$300) that you can take to the coffee shop etc.
I've replaced Linspire on my AA1 with UNR and its like chalk and cheese. Linspire/Xandros are just so last millenium, whereas UNR is fast and powerful, (my apologies to Fedora/OpenSuse supporters - they're probably good too). That said, it'd also be pretty neat for Apple to support MacOS on a couple of these. Choice is good!
We will see.....
The problem is that when people go into a store they want Windows because that is what almost everyone else has and it's what they know and what they have used at home and work. If it has linux on it they just think "what the heck is that?" and ignore it.
If they manage to get it on some big brand machines then they need to try and make sure it gets marketing behind it. The Linux distro makers obviously don't have anything like the money MS has but they could make sure a machine is sent out to reviewers (TV, printed and online), invite them around and explain the benefits and generally show it off. If they can get people interested and showing them off on a prime time gadget show and big online magazines then it could gain some momentum.
Windows 7 is a good OS and it will probably sell by the lorry load but I would be very happy to see Ubuntu or another distro make their case to the public.
As usual , greed = missing the point
To be honest, the OS on a netbook is incidental, basic word processing, web browsing, presentation, IM etc, and if you're a tech professional, network tools , all available on Linux, with a nice zippy and 'free' environment.
What we need is to educate / advertise to the masses that you simply don't need Windows any more on this class of device, not because the world doesn't need windows , it does, however , M$ need to understand that what they are charging for their Desktop OS's is now way off the market value.
Charm offensive would be nice , just look at apple , offering a $29 upgrade from the previous OS. If M$ did that every single machine sold with Vi$ta would be upgraded overnight and they would make an instant profit.
But as usual, for all the money and talented staff , they miss the point again.
Shame. 7 is pretty good , but for now at least , my netbook will remain dual boot XP and Ubuntu.
Old news?
ISTR that when the Eee* shipped amidst much interest there was an XP version or a cheaper Linux version.
IASTR that ASUS found that sales of the Linux version were somewhere in the vicinity of piss-poor and that quite a few of those sold were returned for an extra-cost XP "upgrade" (hah!).
So the *real* question here is whether an extra 20 quid on the price differential between the two versions will galvanise the great unwashed public into jumping the shark. My money's tentatively placed on "no" here.
The elephant in the room is whether the lost sales courtesy of a 20 quid price hike are sufficiently taken up by Linux version sales to make it worth while, when the cost of stocking, distributing and supporting two parallel product lines is taken into account.....
*There, I mentioned it. Can we have the pic now please?
Clean fight? Pfft
The contracts will force MS onto all systems (and even those that don't have MS installed will need to pay the MS tax - ask Dell). MS will do everything it can to spread FUD about any alternative (see about 50% of the posts here).
If it was a clean fight, MS would not even be in the picture. But it is not a clean fight and it never will be a clean fight so long as MS continues to abuse its monopoly position.
A note for the MS shills: that's "ABUSE it monopoly position". Trying thinking before spouting your usual crap.
Modern phones are a bit like a netbook in many ways (slightly slower, smaller screen, better at voice) and they don't run Windows. Why the hell would they need to? Going to edit a Word doc or fire up Photoshop on one? Nope.
Thus netbooks would be a great place for some of the Linux distros to show their stuff. The more "locked down" UI would be acceptable to users of a netbook as, well, it's just a netbook and not a full PC. They would be able to use it without the "LINUX! *fears* ZOMG!" reaction that most people misguidedly get when you mention it. In fact, the suer might not even be aware it is Linux.
Once that ease of use sinks in, the penny will slowly drop. And that is what MS wants to stop. They do not want the netbook to become a chink in their armour, so they will contractually (illegally?) compel OEMs to bugger their Linux distro version or not have one at all.
Heaven forfend that the customer should ever be given a choice in the world of MS.
Hardware and application compatibility.
"The only card Microsoft has left in this game is application and hardware compatibility. "
And they've always been the stumbling blocks for widespread adoption of a Linux-based netbook amongst the general public. People have been willing to pay extra for Windows in the past - why should it be any different this time round ?
MS is so much the trickster
Preconceived price disaster has a preconceived solution. Scare everyone with a $45-$50 price tag so they will eagerly accept there REAL price they secretly intended of about $35. MS is that tricky.
Why no spec for spec pricing
Why is it that Netbook makers do not offer the same spec with Linux and with Windows price for price spec for spec.
I bet if you dig into the contracts it's Microsoft anti competitive behaviour behind it. It would be in it's nature to prevent direct comparisons.
The thing is
Ubuntu is great, I really love it. An easy transition from windows. But, I reckon yer actual user wants to run applications, and if those are windows applications, they want to run those windows applications on their new computer. They don't necessarily even understand why Linux won't run a windows application.
When your gran can configure Wine to run a windows application on her netbook, then Linux is ready to take on windows in the home user market.
My experience of wine is that it is wonderful but not exactly foolproof or easy.
The guys at Canonical and Wine need to get their act together on this.
just wondering
how relevent the price comparison to xp starter edition is? My netbook came with xp home.
This won't make a difference.
People will just buy Win7 machines and complain that they're overpriced and too slow -- or they won't buy "netbooks" at all. There are too many people out there who will insist that Windows is required, easier to use and generally "better" regardless of how much pain MS put them through.
$52 retail = $34 wholesale
"Leaked copies of Windows Vista Starter Edition are available for $52."
Uh, yeah, sure....
The Vista Starter Edition licences that MS sells to OEMs will consist of nothing more than a serial number printed on a COA. Selling these at retail along with media and packaging will result in a markup of at least 30%.
Fair fight?
Ubuntu is free, how is that fair?
Flawed logic
>Those manufacturers will be concerned about their margins
But the margins are transparent - manufacturers will just charge more for the Windows 7 version and consumers will understand why and happily pay the extra- as they do now presented with the choice between a cheap and fairly current Linux distro and an expensive, 8-year-old Windows release.
Ubuntu missed the boat by at least a year - there's never been any doubt its a superior netbook OS than Vista, but there's no chance it can compete with Windows 7.
Not really a change ?
Currently you get low end Netbooks which run Ubuntu and better speced ones which run Windows XP. Your always given options but the options normally are there to limit your choice rather than expand it. Its easier to support 4 types of system than 400.
I'd see it as being sold like it currently is :
1. Cheap as chips with Ubuntu.
2. Average with Ubuntu.
3. "Premium" with Windows 7.
4. Ultimate with Windows 7.
From your average un techy punter Ubuntu is seen as a cheap but worse option, which is why so many people punt up the extra cash $20 is not a lot in the grand scheme of things.
I would not be surpised if a few manufacturers upped the price a bit more in order to make more of a profit and blame it on Windows 7.
Windows Starter Edition
I may have missed a memo, but Windows XP Starter Edition was a deliberately cut-down (crippled) version of Windows to run on low end hardware at very cheap prices to win over the developing nations who couldn't afford a machine that could run "real" Windows XP. ... Vista Starter Edition is the same.
As far as I can tell, it was never meant to be a OS for "rich countries" to run on portable hardware, that's what Windows CE and Mobile were for.
So the limit on number of processes, the small memory required *and the pricing* all make sense for selling to the 3rd world/developing countries, and not in competing against Linux on netbooks for the US.
"Windows Vista Starter was designed specifically to help more men, women, and children in developing technology markets learn valuable computer skills and reach new opportunities. With the goal of addressing digital divide challenges around the world, Windows Vista Starter is the most affordable edition in the Windows Vista line-up.
Windows Vista Starter is designed for the beginner computer user. While it doesn't provide as many benefits as Windows Vista Home Basic, it is great for the beginner user who wants to perform basic tasks."
Wow. Now that Asus has shot itself in the foot with "It's better with Windows", I think they're out of the growing netbook market. Yes, it's growing. Number of them (various manufacturers) I see flipped open in café's and bars, buses (In Oulu, some buses have free WiFi connection) mean it's a strong market.
What are Asus, who started the revolution with the eeepc701 gonna do now? Backtrack? Nah, they must've done a deal with Microsoft to ensure a very cheap deal. NDA, natch.
Neat of Shuttleworth not to diss them. FUD isn't a Linux command (Though it should be. Format c:/)
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
In other news-somewhat unrelated, but still.. checkout
That's what I call advanced! (NB, the cameras just register if someone's still using it, for power saving. Major screw-up, the cameras are too high. So if you're a deformed midget, forget it!)
I've given up...
TBH I can see why OEM's have an issue supporting Linux it's not a tech issue it's a user issue, i've given up recommending Linux on netbooks to friends as i'm sick of the phone ringing. The problem is that it's different to their desktop/notebook, "I can do this in Windows how do I do it here?" "Where's media player?" "I don't like swapping between Windows and Linux depending on what device i'm using but I want MS Office on my desktop because of work." (and i'm not even going to concider WINE in this situation.
I also have xp and hackintosh dual booting on my net book
(When i figure out hot to get dam backtrack to install as a 3rd option it will be triple boot and yes i have used teh ubiquity command and it does not see my hardrive)
But am quite happy with it for now..
Was consideriing removeing the xp though and run "Parrells" in Macos and see how ti runs from there...
P.S Any one reccomand any good Linux books to read (Want to learn something new)
A clean fight? With Microshaft? On which planet?
You have to wonder why they are so scared by such a small market sector. Is it that old megalomania, or just that they don't want anyone to know that there's an alternative? Was Ballmer the fat kid in the playground that nobody liked? No change there, then...
@ Chris Curtis
Got any evidence for this? M$ aren't doing to cut their profit margins for netbooks, surely the OEMs will want similar discounts on "full" laptops and PCs?
Been in a bernie, son?
Hardware compatibility?
The hardware compatibiltiy argument is looking pretty weak these days, particularly with distros like Ubuntu. My last three computers I've had to download Windows XP drivers for 3D graphics, printers, wireless cards...
In comparison the only thing which hasn't worked out the box with Ubuntu has been the graphics acceleration, and getting that working was just a case of clicking "Yes please" when asked.
Maybe I've just been lucky with my pick of hardware, but my recent experience with Linux has been that it "just works" and it's with _Windows_ that I'm left searching for downloads, changing obscure settings...
Re: Asus
Asus- did not shoot themselves in the foot with their 'Its better with Windows' campaign- they shot themselves in the foot when they introduced Linux to the mass market as that Linpus crap on the original 701s. Many people who were willing to view Linux with a reasonably open mind- were exposed to one of the worst distros out there- when they could have spent a couple of weeks knocking together something that would have given Mac OS a run for its money. Thats where Asus shot themselves in the foot. The really bad problems particularly with wireless configuration in Linpus- meant the return rate on the original 701s were startlingly high in comparison to industry norms- and gave Asus a bad taste of what it considered consumer's preference to be........
FYI- I triple boot with Vista Ultimate 64 bit, XP 64bit, and Ubuntu 64 bit. I have no probs with any hardware in any of the operating systems (other than realtec codec probs in Vista- but thats a known problem). I even use Steam on Ubuntu for some limited gaming- because it saves having to kill a load of background applications. I've found the update feature of Ubuntu very helpful- and a lot more intuitive than Windows Update (my last update of device drivers for the aforementioned soundcard necessitated a restore to LKGC).
Its not black and white. If Linux machines are sold at a discount to Windows Machines- a la the way the Acer Revo have priced its range- there is a very good sustainable market for each operating system. Shovelling an operating system out the door- without thought to the underlying hardware and what consumers really want (or need), is fatal.
They've got the right idea
Microsoft can't compete with Free software on price and they'd kill themselves if they tried. Their only sensible long-term approach in terms of marketing now is to position themselves as a "Premium" O/S. And with their current market share and userbase familiarity with their products that's something that they are currently in a very good position to do.
Look at Apple - you get more bang for your buck with a normal PC, but people still buy the Apples. WIndows as the Apple of the O/S world? It's their only good option now that Linux is market-ready. But the thing is, Microsoft could actually maintain a decent Operating System that people wanted and were willing to pay an extra $50 for. I'm sure their marketing people have done their research on where to pitch the price to go for that "Premium" quality level. Let's face it - Linux has been the best thing that ever happened to Windows O/S quality.
Paris, because $50 dollars is way cheaper than some things would cost you.
Linux netbooks are great!
Joe public often can't live with Linux, which means there are loads of box-opened returns to be had really cheap for the cost concious like me. Either use Linux if you're that sort of nerd, or a legit OEM copy of XP Pro can be had for around £30 on ebay. Acer Aspire One, 1.5GB RAM and XP Pro for under £180, very nice.
You can keep your crippled versions of Windows though, but then again maybe Widows Crippled Edition will result in lots of returns just like Linux, so bring it on.
Same Song; Next Verse
People will buy what's on the shelf. New products mean new prices, usually higher, and the numbness to new product price increases is rampant.
People will buy what's on the shelf.
Shuttleworth is to blame?
Linux is going to have a hard fight against Windows at any price. Its the little things that mean my latest netbook (mini 9) is running XP. It replaces a Xandros eeepc 701.
Xandros was fine for simple emailing/browsing - but not upto serious work. Ubuntu would have been a major advance but the pages of eeeuser were filled with the trials and tribulations of getting WiFi, sound et al working only attracted the committed geek. Shuttleworth ducked the obvious gift Asus had given him to give people another route from replacing Xandros with XP. He refused to package a 'eeepc' edition. Not till 9.04 is there something that would work 'out of the box'. Too late the market moved on. No volume to generate those little essential utilities required for syncing all my other mobile devices and assorted drivers.
Ubuntu upgrades unacceptably killing my desktop's WiFi is unacceptable. Much as I love Kubuntu and hate Vista - I have real work to do. I can trust XP to deliver the little things I need (and hopefully Win7). When it doesn't a googled fix doesn't require Kernel recompile. If I was retired the challenge of Ubuntu would be attractive. Right now it has lost me and about half a dozen installations.
Unnecessarily and sadly.
RE: The thing is (AC 16/06/09 08:58)
I think the real turning point will be when people can run Penguin equivalent applications instead of their Windows applications natively, rather than needing an emulator like Wine. By this I mean they need to be as diverse and feature rich as the established Windows applications, with a wide choice that is easy to get to and to install and run, all of which goes back to education of the masses, not the geeky percentage of users represented by the readers here.
One way would be the Apple way, where they supply the rich applications for you, but they have the advantage of providing a single example of an OS, rather than the dozens of distros out there, which could and do change rapidly year after year in their point releases, but then the likes of Canonical need to upskill into those areas or partner with development firms in those areas, all of which costs. The other way is the Windows way where other firms create these applications for the user, but to entice them into it, they will need to charge money for the applications, which the user then balks at (human nature being what it is) as the OS was free and has an application that does a fair-to-poor job at working like that application, which then diminishes the value of the OS in the user's mind.
@Jamie Kitson
Microsoft is an abusive monopoly, how is that fair?
And see how far you get trying to obtain support from Canonical without paying for it first! "Free" only goes so far.
I'd love to see Windows 7 go head-to-head with (say) Ubuntu, openSuse and Fedora on various sets of identical hardware. Guess it's not possible to run comparable benchmarks...but it would be damned interesting it you could.
Just did a quick check. FF is the most popular browser - it is more popular than all versions of IE added together (IE 41%, FF 47.7%). So it seems that people are voting with their feet.
Linux and Mac have seen a slow and steady rise in popularity. Together the have about 10% (split 4.1% and 6.1% respectively), Windows share has been slowly dropping (on some sites it reports as low as 87.7%) as a result. So seems people are voting with their feet there as well.
Of course, just because IE has a low share or that Windows popularity is falling is no excuse for anti-competitive practices or for preventing people from removing IE when they don't want it. But MS is in fear of the above trends and will do whatever it can to keep its monopoly.
If it was capable to creating decent software, people would not be converting to alternatives.
The other one
I notice that the current Maplin offering comes with Windows CE (!)
I wonder what the deal was there..?
Machines in the UK don't use starter edition - so this is a non-story.
Netbooks normally ship with Windows XP Home Edition. Windows 7 Home is rumoured to be the same cost as XP Home....
ubuntu - will it ever get to version 7?
bye bye ubuntu.
weren't linux based netbooks the most returned product of 2008? can't see much changing - end of the day, the majoriy just prefer windows.
W(h)ine! W(h)ine! W(h)ine!
OSX doesn't have a Windows compat layer to "ease" people over, they simply state the bleedin' obvious. "Yes this is new and it's not Microsoft Windows, but not entirely different from what your used to. So get along to a store give it go. Bring you Windows PC into the Apple store and we'll get you moved over!" ( I believe from memory that's in one of those annoying Apple ads! )
There's the difference! Apple not only have a massive budget for marketing and can hire the ad-men to make it happen, Apple preach and reach out to the average person and talk their language. Apple talk in terms of web browser, spreadsheet, word processor, desktop PC, home movie editing, MP3 playing, they don't bang on about running Windows apps in an emulator. Linux ads go bleating on about technical issues and compatability this and that. The average user ( if such a person exists these days!) has a core set of tasks they need to be able to do, stop selling Linux as a Windows replacement, it's not, it's a Windows alternative, like Apple is an alternative, not a replacement. If they want to pitch Linux, the tech angle has to stop, it has to reach a middle ground that we can all understand, no not dumbing down, but common ground.
Linux needs to be pitched with the right amount of BS and the right amount of honesty, just like any alternative product fighting the markety leader. "You can run this great alternative to Windows, you can run your spreadsheet, web browser, MP3 player and home movie editing software. Best of all, the entire kit and kaboodle is 100% free! Yep, you only pay for the hardware, the software is 100% legally free! Want to share your Powerpoint presentation or spreadsheet with your colleagues? No problem at all, it's compatible with existing Microsoft and Apple software, all the software you need is right there on the PC, ready to go! Plug in and play!".
I love Ubuntu and Fedora, use 'em all the time at work, but it will never hit mainstream until we understand it's a product and as such needs to be "sold" as such, stop the Wine crap and talk in terms of apps and tasks to be done, not technical. Lack of decent games and the inability to run Windows apps ( within standard OSX) hasn't stopped Apple for shipping bucket loads of overpriced kit by the create load has it!
@Shane McCarrick
Er, it was Acer Aspire One that runs Linpus. Asus 701 runs Xandros.
Both do what they say on the tin, tho'. No less, no more.* Neither are bad. I carry my 701 everywhere. Lovely bit 'o' kit.
My Huawei 220 3Gmodem just _worked_ on my eee701 (same as on my G/F's machine. Wireless? Just worked. Out of the box)
My mate's Acer Aspire needed my help, 'cos the operator (DNA) swore blind that the modem they sold him (I think Huawei 192?) wouldn't work with Linux. WiFi did, no sweat, flick the switch on the front of the machine, but I only had to look up that DNA wanted the static APN name to be 'internet', and all was tickety-boo. For convenience I also plugged his SIM-card into a phone, and turned off the "PIN required" option - doddle.
He's as happy as a pig in shi*t now. Found a job using it.
*Friend of mine collected graveyard epitaphs. His fave:
"Here lies Lester Moore
Four slugs from a '44
No Les. No more"
RE: RE: The thing is
>>> I think the real turning point will be when people can run Penguin equivalent applications instead of their Windows applications natively, rather than needing an emulator like Wine. By this I mean they need to be as diverse and feature rich as the established Windows applications, with a wide choice that is easy to get to and to install and run ...
Exactly, and that's why it's important to have OPEN standards. That's standards that are OPEN, complete, and freely implementable. Like, err, ODF ! Once you have documents in a STANDARD format, then you can use any available app to edit it and it doesn't matter if you prefer Windows, Mac, Linux, or anything else.
That is why MS fought so hard to throw spanners in the works of the ODF standardisation process, and why they bought their own non-open, non-free, alternative standard. They know that as long as you have to have MS Office to fully handle MS Office Documents, then they can use that to lock out competition and lock people in to using MS Office (and hence MS Windows).
Won't make a difference
I agree this won't make a blind bit of difference - the Gen Public simply will not "get" anything different to Windows.
And actually that's fine by me - like an earlier poster I can recommend PC Linux OS (pclinuxos.com). I have been using this on my home machine for some years (various versions) and it's no hassle at all. It just installs and runs reliably and fast. Other Distros might well be better - I don't know - all I know is that Pclinuxos has not caused me enough grief to even think about looking.
OK the non-technical will complain about it not being Windows but for the technically competent amongst us it's great that the scumbags that write various malware and network borne nasties have the great unwashed and their insecure crappy Windows install in their sights and not me!
I have to deal with Windows related nonsense and instability at work - it's a pain but I get paid for it!
At home the no hassle Linux option is the ideal solution for me.
@ Hardware compatibility?
I've got to second that. Having heard about the various compatibility problems encountered by Vista users, it's struck me how easy Ubuntu is to install and configure, and how it gets easier with each passing release. I have a young family at home, so I don't have time to fsck around with every little config file or driver any more.
However, the truth is that Linux on the desktop / laptop will never happen now, at least not in the next decade or so. Or if it does happen, it'll be something that's like OSX or the XMB fast boot media player you get on some laptops these days, that will hide a lot of the complexity (and power!) from users.
It's a hobbyist, enthusiast's OS, but why should that be a bad thing? That's one of the main reasons I've persevered with it for years.
hardware and software compatibility
Does Linux work perfectly? No. Ubuntu has had a mis-step with their move over to using pulseaudio (but this is much improved with the latest release).
Does Windows have better hardware support? No. Just look at the NVidia mess on supporting Vista -- unusable, slow graphics with tearing (and that if you have a Go graphics card on a laptop, it is up to the manufacturer to supply the drivers, not NVidia but on Linux you can get the driver support directly from NVidia!) And there is also the Creative debacle around their audio drivers.
As for application compatibility, Windows broke a lot of applications. In order to get those to work, you need to upgrade (which may cost money). And then there is all the hunting around for the install CDs and license keys, and making sure that everything is up-to-date.
With Linux, I can update the whole system easily in one step. And I don't need the gazillion reboots that you have on Windows (ok, so I'm exaggerating here :)).
In Store
Whenever I have been in store looking at Netbooks, If I show interest in one that has Linux the staff always challenge me on whether i'm sure I want Linux. "Do you know this is Linux and not Windows? You will want the Windows version" With some even saying Linux isn't "as good"
When it is just as good for things such as browsing the web and checking emails.
I was looking for Linux to save money as I already had a legal copy of Win XP Pro to install on it, so thought i'd save a bit of money (and did). I need Windows to run Visual Studio, if it was just for browsing the web or doing non-MS specific programming, a Linux based OS would be fine for me.
But the point is that the staff in stores need to be pushing Linux too, but only where it would be appropriate for the customer. Unfortunately it's all down to the opinion of the member of staff. Joe public will take the word of a PC World employee as gospel.
Re: Hardware Compatibility
AC said; "The hardware compatibiltiy argument is looking pretty weak these days, particularly with distros like Ubuntu. My last three computers I've had to download Windows XP drivers for 3D graphics, printers, wireless cards..."
The thing is that people buying a new computer don't generally have to install Windows itself or the drivers for the components - that's pre-configured by the OEM. Also, if you're shopping and pick up some kind of peripheral (webcam, printer, etc.) you're pretty much guaranteed that the drivers will be on an included disk and that it'll work with Windows. If something doesn't work immediately with Linux then you've got...<ahem>...an 'interesting' time ahead of you. Whereas some people look upon that as a geeky puzzle challenge, the vast majority of people just want to get it working so they can start to do stuff.
Killed by their own success
Most people will opt for the Win7-version (if Linux is available at all) - the cost is almost irrelevant - so much is true.
But where a Linux-version is available, the price-difference will stick out.
What most people do not seem to realize is that a sale of Win7 for a netbook will result in the loss of a "full" sale of Win7 for a notebook, most likely.
Already, shipments of netbooks (and the reduced price MSFT has to offer XP for) shows in their balance-sheet.
They may win the netbook-war - but at their own expense, because Linux isn't even the enemy, it's Windows itself.
While Linux-netbooks are not compelling to people outside special-interest markets (sysadmins etc.) - an Apple-designed netbook may very well be.
With carrier-subsidies, it might in some cases be priced below Win7 offerings of competitors with "inferior" products.
While not a real mass-market, Apple might once again be able to pull a high-margin segment almost completely into their control.
Apple has no problem with a 1, 2, or 5% marketshare - as long as those people guarantee them a healthy margin.
Apple has been adding 0.5b to 1b USD _per_ quarter to the bank (for years now) only from pleasing a very, very small segment of the market.
Turns out, volume doesn't beat anything. Only fools would sacrifice volume over margin.
@Jamie Kitson
linux is only free if your time is worthless.
"loads of box-opened returns to be had really cheap"
Whats its for again ?
Coz I forgot.
Netbooks I mean.
I see people (on geek forums) keep saying they want to run their windows apps on netbooks ?
Really ?
Like what ?
Photoshop ? Are you for real ? Perhaps you want to play Crysis on a netbook too ?
How many Joe/ann publics are going to lash out hundreds of pounds for Photoshop just to edit a few pix on a netbook ?
Are you for real ? Do you have fingers the size of a five year olds ? And how much does office cost (serious question). I bet it's heaps.
To use on a netbook ?
So they are great for Network engineers..
How many Joe/ann publics are Network Engineers ?
ITunes.. Ok.. Fair comment WTF would you want to use that for ?
Ok.. Granted you wouldn't but joe/ann public would.
So thats a grand total of....
Must be a real Killer app
Personally... I bought my daughters 3 701's and I wanted them as cheap as possible and they are happy with them and what they can do on them.
ONE daughter has so far changed to UNR
Toastan Buttar
Toastan Buttar - "If your toast always falls butter-side down, simply butter the other side" (Little book of Wrong Shui)
Yep, for Mr. Average Farty, Windows is right. Just take it back to the shop if you don't get it. Or, call your mate. Or, put it back in the box, and use paper and pencil. And an abacus.
Then, try to stick a bit of new kit on it. Re-do the shop/mate cycle. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Ubuntu 9.04 just works with everything I have.*
That's not an 'interesting' time. God, my Granny could've done it. Sharp as a knife but she's been dead for 20 years, and we didn't have Ubuntu on my PDP-11/34.
*Well, my Canon MP510 doesn't put the colours in the right place - I need non-freeware Turboprint, but WTF?? Neither does my Tux Droid, but I'll work it out. When I'm sober. Next week. Maybe. (iced-tea? for wimps)
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text:
Upstate Criminals SC
Saturday, August 23, 2014
// Last Recorded Year : 62.953 Whites Committed Crimes On Blacks. However, Same Year 320,082 Blacks Committed Crimes On Whites //
- Dolvett Quince @dolvett 9hWatching the sadness surrounding the death of Mike Brown and loss to his family and community when will this madness stop #FergusonShooting
- #Obama should take #Holder's thumb off the scales of justice: http://po.st/1OukpU #Ferguson #FergusonShooting pic.twitter.com/PPf1eN8gmk
- Witness to Michael Brown shooting: "dude kept coming towards the police": http://youtu.be/0mAaJMBxKA4 #Ferguson #FergusonShooting #tcot #ccot
- Last recorded year: 62.953 whites committed crime on blacks. Same year 320,082 blacks committed crime on whites. #Ferguson #FergusonShooting
- Pants down? Check. No shirt? Check. Breaking and entering? Check. #Ferguson #FergusonShooting pic.twitter.com/hrVF33vgWp
- Lot of new and race baiting Twitter accounts opened so they can spew vile lies about #FergusonShooting. Election year race baiting. #msnbc
Posted by Crime Spy at 3:08 AM No comments:
OFFICIALS BRACE #FERGUSON FOR EXONERATION OF OFFICER #DARRENWILSON http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/officials-brace-ferguson-for-exoneration-of-officer/#62L0eZqimpGmwomm.99 … pic.twitter.com/jZqMWI97uy
Posted by Crime Spy at 2:55 AM No comments:
// Story Of An Officer Having To Take A Life // God Bless Officer Wilson, His Family And The Brown Family //
As I sit here and look at all the media coverage of the Ferguson MO I can't help but feel for Officer Wilson and the Brown family. I spent 20yrs in Law Enforcement and the last thing that I ever wanted to do was have to take someone's life but on a Sunday morning in 2006 it happened. It's something that I have to live with the rest of my life just as many other officers do. You see that persons image in your sleep and you will never forget it.
As I was standing in the mirror that morning adjusting my gear never did I think today is the day that I have to take a person's life. It was during a physical altercation that a man lost his life because of choices that he made. Yes it was a black male that lost his life that day. Our names were plastered all over the news the next day and I even kept my children out of school for fear of violence towards them.
Why do a handful of people in this country continue to make tragic issues into racial issues. I feel sure that the last thing Officer Wilson wanted to do was to take a person's life. My parents taught me to respect everyone it didn't matter what race they were and I still hold to that.
Our country is in trouble right now and we all need to stand together as one and bring it back. The great Martin Luther King Jr lost his life fighting to break racial tensions in our country and we should not give in to this crap. We all need to stand as one and rebuild our beautiful country.
I don't have a problem with someone protesting for something they believe in but burning, looting and hurting innocent people that's just bullshit.
This is a tragic incident that no one wins. Officer Wilson will live with this for this rest of his life.
God bless Officer Wilson, his family and the Brown family
I pray that God watches over all of our Law Enforcement
Posted by Crime Spy at 2:40 AM No comments:
Wednesday, August 20, 2014
// 'Time To Kill A Cop': Ferguson Protesters Throw Urine //
'Time To Kill A Cop': Ferguson Protesters Throw Urine, Bottles At Police http://ln.is/cbsloc.al/53qee JUST WHEN YOU THINK IT CAN'T GET ANY WORSE
Posted by Crime Spy at 10:53 PM No comments:
// Michael Brown // 6' Foot, 200 lbs. Plus Thug //
Of the gang members on Brown's Facebook Friends list, most seem to identify with the Bloods. Did see a few throwing the sign for the Vice Lords.
Would it surprise you to find out NBC edited that photo? Here is the full photo with Brown throwing what appears to be Gang Signs.
Apparently Brown changed his mind. In 2012 he was showing Blood signs.
Posted by Crime Spy at 10:41 PM No comments:
// Prostitution Sting // 59 Arrested In Greenville, SC //
Posted by Crime Spy at 10:29 PM No comments:
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A steep street in Sarlat, La Dordogne, France
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TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) - Ask Larry Fitzgerald how he feels, and he says ''Good enough to go.''
Not ''great,'' not ''as good as ever.''
Just ''good enough to go.''
Fitzgerald has been bothered by a sore hamstring since the second week of the season, and Arizona coach Bruce Arians says that, more than anything, is the reason the star wide receiver has not been as productive as fans have come to expect.
Since Arizona hasn't played since Thursday, Arians hopes the extra time off will make Fitzgerald a bit more like his old self when the Cardinals are home against the Atlanta Falcons on Sunday.


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Scarred tissues turned into beating heart cells
In a new study, researchers have turned cells common in scar tissue into colonies of beating heart cells.
The findings by biomedical engineers from the University of Michigan could advance the path toward regenerating tissue that's been damaged in a heart attack.
Previous work in direct reprogramming, jumping straight from a cell type involved in scarring to heart muscle cells, has a low success rate. But Andrew Putnam, an associate professor of biomedical engineering and head of the Cell Signaling in Engineered Tissues Lab, thinks he knows at least one of the missing factors for better reprogramming.
"Many reprogramming studies don't consider the environment that the cells are in a€" they don't consider anything other than the genes," he said.
"The environment can dictate the expression of those genes," Putnam said.
To explore how the cells' surroundings might improve the efficiency of reprogramming, Yen Peng Kong, a post-doctoral researcher in the lab, attempted to turn scarring cells, or fibroblasts, into heart muscle cells while growing them in gels of varying stiffness. He and his colleagues compared a soft commercial gel with medium-stiffness fibrin, made of the proteins that link with platelets to form blood clots, and with high-stiffness collagen, made of structural proteins.
The fibroblasts came from mouse embryos. To begin the conversion to heart muscle cells, Kong infected the fibroblasts with a specially designed virus that carried mouse transgenes a€" genes expressed by stem cells.
Fooled into stem cell behavior, the fibroblasts transformed themselves into stem-cell-like progenitor cells. This transition, which would be skipped in direct reprogramming, encouraged the cells to divide and grow into colonies rather than remaining as lone rangers. The tighter community might have helped to ease the next transition, since naturally developing heart muscle cells are also close with their neighbours.
After seven days, Kong changed the mixture used to feed the cells, adding a protein that encourages the growth of heart tissue. This helped push the cells toward adopting the heart muscle identity. A few days later, some of the colonies were contracting spontaneously, marking themselves out as heart muscle colonies.
The transition was particularly successful in the fibrin and fibrin-collagen mixes, which saw as many as half of the colonies converting to heart muscle.
The team has yet to discover exactly what it is about fibrin that makes it better for supporting heart muscle cell. While most materials either stretch or weaken under strain, fibrin gets harder.
(Posted on 13-02-2014)
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Gargle the Electrifying Lugnuts!
Let's Start Monday Right! GIFBomb Lady!
Apparently I wasn't paying attention a couple of weeks ago when GIFBomb Lady exploded onto the internet but I'm making up for it now. Thanks for letting me know guys! Enjoy! I'm going to go reevaluate our relationship.
No word yet on the obligatory Nic Cage one yet…
The most frustrating one:
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(Source: gifbomblady)
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Dr. Jessica K. Altman, MD
Hematology/Oncology, Robert H Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center
- 675 N Saint Clair St Ste 21-100
Chicago, IL 60611
- 2 Office Locations
- Email a Friend
- (312) 695-0990
Dr. Jessica K. Altman has been practicing medicine for 13 years. Dr. Altman graduated from the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine in 2001. She practices medicine in Chicago, IL and 1 other location and specializes in Hematology/Oncology. Dr. Altman is affiliated with Ann & Robert H Lurie Childrens Hospital Of Chicago and Northwestern Memorial Hospital.
Gender: Female
Years in Practice: 13 Years
Languages Spoken: English
Medical School: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
Graduation Date: 2001
Hospital Affiliations: Ann & Robert H Lurie Childrens Hospital Of Chicago, Northwestern Memorial Hospital
Specialties: Hematology/Oncology
*This physician has multiple office locations. See Appointments for details.
©2005-2014 WebMD, LLC. All rights reserved.
WebMD does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See additional information.


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All News & Blogs
E-mail Alerts
Bobby Orrock--a man of principle who deserves our vote
We realize that politicians cannot appease everyone's desires. We know that Del. Bobby Orrock is one of these politicians, but knowing what kind of person he is may be the reason he has been elected so many times--and why he will get our votes, as well as the votes of our close friends.
We are senior citizens who have lived most of our lives in Spotsylvania County. We've seen the fruits of Bobby's labors over and over again.
We know that he gives a lot of thought to preparing to vote or presenting a bill. We also know that even though there have been accusations that he may not be as pro-family as some want us to believe, the Bobby Orrock we know is as pro-life as anyone could be.
You can go on the Internet and find all you need to know about him and why he voted for or against some bills--but please rest assured that he gave it a careful study before voting.
We know he is truly a firm believer in Christ, as shown by his job on the 93.3 WFLS Sunday gospel show, his caring for the students he teaches, and his willingness to serve on the rescue squad.
We can also tell you from personal knowledge that he will do everything in his power to help a constituent with a problem, and he will make sure he follows through until the matter is resolved.
We are asking that you join us in voting to keep Bobby Orrock in office.
Bernard and Eleanor Hart


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Hyde Park Stinker Store team assisted the Idaho Lottery Commission in filming their latest commercial.
Check out the link below. Way to go team!
Hyde Park Stinker Store team assisted the Idaho Lottery Commission in filming their latest commercial.
Check out the link below. Way to go team!
8/14/14 – I wanted to say how much I appreciate Becki at your Orchard store. I pass 7 convenience stores on my way to work in the morning. I only stop at Stinker, because of her. She's always happy, and engaging. I also appreciate that that store is one of the last stores in the valley that doesn't have a machine that charges to fill car tires.
I just thought you should know, that you are doing a great job at that location, and the main reason I stop by several times a week, is because of the great service I get. While Becki is the one I see the most, the other ladies I see there are equally great. Customer, Kevin Rank
8/20/14 – I love your Hyde Park location!!! The team that you have there is so friendly. My family especially loves Casey (the girl Casey as my son would tell you), is so genuine in all that she does. From the moment that you walk into the store with her greeting, the way that she engages with you is amazing. She gave my 4 year old son the opportunity to pretend to work there by letting him take my money and give me my change. He tells people that he works at Stinker Stores and when they get the look of confusion I get to explain and compliment how awesome our local gas station is. I am a retail store manager of a high retail store and we are customer service driven. We receive TONS of training around what it looks like to engage, connect and make the customer feel welcome, empowered and overall great. In my last training session with over 2000 people I was able to share my story about the fact that it doesn't matter if you are selling high end or snacks and gas, the way that you make people feel makes the difference! I talked about your store as the example. My kids beg me to go to Stinker Stores so they can see their Stinker friends. KUDOS to the entire team especially Casey!! Customer, Christina
Stinker-Emmett #76 located at 317 S Washington in Emmett has a great group of ladies; Manager Stephanie Van Meter, 7 ½ years, Asst. Manager Sandy Smith, 2 years, Kristina Angelo, 1 year 4 months, Darla Wintermote 4 months and Samantha Welch, 3 weeks.
These ladies have a lot in common. They were all born in Idaho and live in or around Emmett except for Steph, who was born in Council Bluff, Iowa and recently bought a home in Caldwell. They all love their animals: Steph has a cat named Casper and raised pigs for 20 years before moving to Idaho; Sandy has a dog named Jackass; Kristina has a dog named Lowla and a cat named Tom; Darla has 3 horses, a flock of sheep, a turtle, a rabbit, 4 cats and 2 Border Collies; Samantha has a cat named Mavis. Some are musical: Steph played the violin until 9th grade; Kristina plays the piano, cello, violin and sings; Darla played the trumpet. Three are moms and grandmas: Stephanie has 4 children and 3 grandchildren; Chanel 4 ½, Asher 2 ½ and Everett 6 months; Sandy has 1 son and 1 granddaughter; Darla has 4 kids; Kristina and Samantha have no children at this time. Stephanie and Samantha are both married; Stephanie for 7 ½ years, that's what brought her to Idaho and Samantha was married on 10/10/13 and is the newlywed of the bunch. She moved in with her new husband after 2 weeks of dating and they have been together ever since. The other ladies are in long term relationships with their boyfriends; Sandy for 15 years, Kristina for 6 years and Darla for 13 years.
Besides being great at their jobs they also have a variety of other talents and interests. Stephanie who grew up in Omaha, NE and studied Electronic Technology at SE Community College in Lincoln, NE enjoys gardening, puzzle art, treasure hunting with her metal detector and would someday love to live in the mountains when she retires. Stephanie has also volunteered for many events with Stinker; Rake Up Boise every year, Meridian Speedway many times, and will cover any and all events if needed. She said, "I love that I form a bond with my customers and working for Stinker has been wonderful. People are interesting. Take a few moments to get to know your customers and try to enjoy your job."
Sandy was born in St. Maries and grew up in Plummer, Idaho. She was a cosmetologist for 20 years and lived in McKenzie River, Oregon for 15 years before moving back to Idaho. She said, "Love our customers and I work with wonderful people."
Kristina grew up in Emmett and attended Emmett High School, Black Canyon High School and the College of Western Idaho-CWI in Nampa. She would someday like to go to law school. She enjoys singing, writing and reading. She hopes to travel in the future and loves the ocean. Kristina is a Shift Leader and said, "I love everything about my job. I am always learning something new every day. I love the people and my amazing Stinker TEAM!" Her advice, "Stick with it. There are great opportunities within Stinker. They are an amazing company to work for."
Darla was also raised in Emmett but lived in Sun Valley for 10 years where she attended Wood River High School in nearby Hailey. She currently lives just outside Emmett on a farm which explains how she has room for all her beloved animals. "My family and I love the outdoors anywhere from horseback riding and gardening to hunting, fishing and camping." One of her many talents and favorite is photography. "I love to photograph our great outdoors with our beautiful wildlife here in our great state." Someday she hopes to become good enough to have her pictures published in National Geographic. Darla is the Gem County 4-H Leader in photography, sheep and soon leadership.
Samantha is the newbie on the block. She was born in Mountain Home and raised in Meridian. She attended Eagle High School and CWI in Nampa. Here interests are reading, gaming and Pinterest. She hopes to someday get her degree.
Well that's the Emmett Stinker Crew so now that you know their names and little about them go by and say hi to these friendly country girls!
7/10/14 – Stinker-Emmett # 76, I would like to make a comment on how well I love the staff in Emmett. The store location is on Washington. The staff is so friendly and super helpful. I just wanted to compliment the them all. Sincerely, Raileen Barton
7/11/14 – Bridget Jennings & Stinker #78 Team in Donnelly: Doug Smith shared with me your fantastic sales results for the July 4th weekend. WOW!!! Each of you can be justifiably proud of the great sales you produced. I am grateful for your positive attitudes and your commitment to outstanding customer service. I know your sales success was not achieved through just the hard work you did July 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. There was lots of advanced work done to stock the store properly prior to the biggest sales weekend of the year. Great job! Thank you! Charley Jones, President/Owner
7/22/14 – Stephanie Parke, Manager #22 & Michelle Messick, Manager #102: I would like to take this opportunity to appreciate your hard work and leadership within your stores. Your stores were selected by the Boise Police to participate in an external compliance check. Each store passed as demonstrated by the attached letter. Thank you for not only protecting our company and its social image, but for protecting our customers too. At Stinker we feel the social responsibility of selling alcohol in a compliant and safe manner is one of most importance. Thank you both for all you do. Please congratulate your teams on behalf of the Senior Leadership of Stinker Stores.
Paragraph from the Boise Police Department Letter to Charley Jones on July 14, 2014:
Congratulations and thank you for your efforts leading to your recent success in passing an alcohol sale compliance check conducted at 3203 N Cole Road and 1500 S Cole in Boise on 6/28/14. Your employees refused to sell alcohol to our underage buyer. Hiring, training, and supervising responsible staff is essential to keeping your business in compliance with the laws and ordinances regulating the sale of alcohol. We appreciate the work you have put into this important part of your business. Responsible alcohol sales businesses are a respected part of our business community and your efforts to help us keep alcohol out of the hands of youth are appreciated.
7/31/14 – Stinker-Bliss #74, We have stopped at the Stinker store in Bliss in the past and had found it unclean, not a friendly place. While on a motorcycle ride in July of this year we met a friend there. While waiting we decided to go in for refreshments. Wow what a difference, clean, well-organized friendly staff. My congratulations to the manager. We will be stopping there again on our travels.
Bridget Jennings is an Idaho girl, born in Gooding, raised in Bliss with her younger brother John and graduated from Bliss High School. She is also a Stinker girl and just celebrated her 20th Anniversary on July 15, 2014. Bridget started as a cashier in Bliss in 1994, working there for about 6 years. When a manager position opened in Boise at Cole & Victory, Bridget was asked to come to Boise and check it out. She had only been to Boise a couple of times in her life. She said she came and looked at the store and said it looks great, she was offered the job on the spot, which was a Wednesday, and asked to report to work on Monday. She had to get moved and ready to start as a new manager, in a new city, in just few short days. She said it was a little scary but she loved the challenge. Since then, she has managed the Vista and Apple stores in Boise and is currently the manager in Donnelly. You could say Stinker is in her blood as most of her family at one time or another has worked for Stinker; her grandma, mom, aunt, uncle, cousin, niece and her significant other of 10 years, David. Bridget has done a lot for Stinker through the years; she even helped write the first Manager's Manual and is always willing to help out where needed. She was huge help during the Albertson's acquisitions and purchase of Flying J in Lewiston, where she spent a month, when the current manager Shawn, her aunt, was dealing with a sick spouse. Bridget is a huge asset to Stinker and all you have to do is ask her and she'll get it done! Thank you for all you do!
Bridget has 4 beautiful daughters; Ashley 22, Savannah 18, Emily 6 and Lexi 4. Ashley has also given her a grandson, Grayson, who is 1 and can say, "Hi Grandma". Bridget said her youngest Lexi is still trying to get the concept of being an aunt, she tells her she wants to be a ladybug instead. Bridget and David make their home on the outskirts of McCall. They have 2 dogs; a Pug named Gizmo and a Maltese mix Missy. Living in McCall you also get a lot of other animals in your yard; bear, foxes, raccoons and lot of deer. When asked about her outdoor activities, she said she isn't much of an outdoors person but does love to power wash anything. She said she also learned how to run a skid steer backhoe while working on a ranch. "When I first started with Stinker I was also feeding about 350 calves, I would have to drive up and down to feed them all. Working both jobs was hard but I am proud to say I did it. I also like to color and I don't share my color books with my children."
Bridget said she really enjoys all the people she works with and all the great customers. Being a manager, has a lot of challenges but I love new challenges and am always looking for the next one. Her advice to a new employee is to not stress too much and enjoy what you do. "Everyone had to learn at one point or another."
Cory Mooney started with Stinker 19 years ago auditing. He has been a store Manager, RTM-Retail Territory Manager, IT Manager and is currently Director of IT. Cory attended Centennial High School and BSU. He has pursued Technical Certifications – Comp TIA A+, Comp TIA Network+ and MCP. "Stinker has been very supportive of my continued technical education." Cory said he enjoys the new people he has met over the many years working for Stinker. "Stinker is truly a great place to work where you feel like you're part of a family." His advice to a new employee, "Don't be afraid of your own greatness. I personally know quite a few people who have had the courage to push forward toward their dreams even when they didn't feel especially confident. Not only did they make amazing progress, but also built their confidence along the way."
Cory was born in La Grande, Oregon and moved to Boise when he was 4 years old. He has one older sister. Cory's junior year at Centennial he met his future wife Heather. They have been married 21 years and have 3 children; Paige 19, Blake 17 and Sarah 15. They also have an 11 year old black lab named Simba who has retired from hunting with Cory and is now spoiled rotten by Heather. Cory enjoys skiing, golfing, fishing, hunting and camping. Two years ago he learned to surf behind a boat from his cousins buddy Scott Campbell, the Captain of the Seabrook on the Deadliest Catch who they vacation with at least once a year. Cory said, "We enjoy spending time with our kids as they are turning into young adults." They make their home in Meridian.
Cory has a special connection to Stinker that you may not know. His wife Heather is the daughter of Scott Lind and granddaughter of the founder of Stinker Stores, Farris Lind. Farris founded Stinker in 1936, that's 78 years ago. Pretty cool
Charley Jones, our President/Owner was recently named CEO of Influence by the Idaho Business Review! http://www.pageturnpro.com/Idaho-Business-Review/58410-CEO-of-Influence-2014-Idaho-Business-Review/index.html#1 . Charley's response, "I'm a little embarrassed by it. I'm certainly humbled by it, but I am proud of my company, and I'm proud of Stinker. So, I will brag about my people, and I will brag about my company. But brag about Charley? I'm not so comfortable bragging about Charley."
So let me brag about Charley!
Charley was born in Pasco, Washington, the middle child, with 2 older and 2 younger brothers. He was raised in Boise and graduated from Borah High School and University of Idaho where he received an accounting degree. Yes Charley is a Vandal, in fact he was a cheerleader for U of I in 1971, the first time Idaho played Boise State in football. Idaho lost but did go 8-3 that season. GO Vandals!
Charley, Nancy and boys Nikolaus 15 and Duncan 14 live in the Boise foothills along with their 2 dogs, Thor and Aislin, cat Tzaman and cockatoo, Bailey. Charley said he enjoys spending time with his family and attending the boys sporting events. "Nik likes track and football. Duncan is an avid lacrosse player." Charley and Nancy enjoy attending all the boys' activities; cherishing the years they have with them. Charley's greatest ambition is to "Raise Nikolaus and Duncan to be kind, compassionate, and successful adults." Charley also enjoys golf in the summer and skiing in the winter and finds gardening and working on the house rewarding. When asked if he has any hidden talents he said, "If I have hidden talents, they are hidden from me!"
Charley and Shawn Davis bought Stinker 12 years ago in 2002. At that time Stinker had 43 stores and the employee morale was low. They both worked hard every day and did close 13 of the original stores but built Stinker to 64 stores and 540 employees today. Charley said the support of his wife and a lot of hard work has paid off. "I remember many days working with Shawn to rescue Stinker from almost certain failure. We had huge potholes in front of the fuel island at one store; we had a hole in the floor in front of the sales counter at another store. Previous owners didn't take pride in their stores or their people. The transformation of Stinker from a neglected failing company into what we are today, successful, growing, and improving every day. Stinker employees are engaged and proud of their company and their co-workers. That is a fond memory that I add to every day." In 2012 Shawn retired and Charley and his family became the sole owners of CJSD Holdings which consists of Stinker Stores, Arrowrock Supply and Westpoint Transportation. Charley hopes that within 20 years his sons will take over ownership of Stinker.
Charley said he enjoys working with great people to make Stinker a better and more successful company. His advice, "Enjoy your job and the people you work with. Stinker is a special company filled with great people. Life is too short for you to not enjoy every day and the opportunities to grow and advance with Stinker."
Out of great leaders come great companies. Thanks for all you do for us Charley!
Stinker wants to thank all of you that participated in the JDRF Walk on Saturday. It was a beautiful day and exciting watching Steve Watts present JDRF with this awesome BIG Check!
A HUGE THANK YOU to our Stinker EMPLOYEES and CUSTOMERS for the results of our Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation campaign.
Check it out STINKER STORES!!!! You raised $82,213 for JDRF in 2014!!!!! WOW that is SO AWESOME!! You should all be so VERY PROUD of all your efforts!!! $31,608 over our goal – You blew away the set goal and the stretch goal!!! Together you gave 162% and so much more!! THANK YOU ALL!!


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Hello, my name is Violet.
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text:
More cloak, less dagger
2 June 1996
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The divorce scam used to be epitomised by a man in a grubby mac, a hired hotel room and a fake love affair. At the centre of this seedy melange was a solicitor.
The trick, at the centre of the film Under Suspicion, which starred Liam Neeson, was worked to circumvent the strict divorce laws which were in place in the fifties.
The client would meet a hired woman in a hired hotel room. The private eye would take snaps of the bogus lovers together and then present the "evidence" to the solicitor, who may or may not have known of the deceit.
Nowadays, the divorce laws are much more relaxed, and the relationship between private eye and solicitor more sanitary. Under pending legislative changes, moreover, there will be even less skulduggery.
First, section 161 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act will outlaw many of the time-honoured undercover ploys used by investigators.
Second, the Family Law Bill, with plans for "no-fault" divorce, could dramatically curtail the need to dig up evidence of marital infidelity.
As a consequence, private investigators will have to provide a service to law firms which is further above board than before and there will be a reduction in the number of cases in which they will have to be called in.
There are two main areas of work in which the legal profession uses private detectives: fraud and family.
At the higher end of the market, many detectives who work in the area of fraud are known as "corporate investigators". Often ex-senior police officers with accounting skills, they are called in to assess assets lost through dishonesty and, if possible, trace them.
"They are very necessary," says John Wood, a former director of the Serious Fraud Office and now a consultant at Denton Hall. "Fraud is a growth industry. It is for that reason that corporate investigators have come into their own.
"They can help in money laundering cases: tracing assets and so on. Generally, they can be used to look at the security aspects of a company and put in place defence systems to protect the company's interests."
A senior partner in another leading law firm says: "If you are in a bank looking at debt recovery, you might hire someone to assess whether someone is worth suing or not.
"With the kind of work we do, they are required to do more sophisticated jobs. For example: Can I show that Mr X met Mr Y who runs an offshore company, and that is where all this money has gone?"
Such investigations can involve the use of sophisticated forensic accountancy techniques such as document analysis and the combing of hundreds of bank accounts to trace illicit money movements which can span the world.
The other major area of work for private investigators involves the more traditional ferreting skills of the agent. Often they are required to do some digging in to the personal circumstances of one of the parties in a divorce case.
Nicole Hackett, a family law solicitor with Stephenson Harwood, says this could mean trying to find out if the party is committing adultery, behaving unreasonably, or sometimes, whether their earnings are what they say they are.
She explains: "For example, if you are acting for a wife, and the husband swears blind that he has got absolutely no money whatsoever, and you are deeply suspicious, you might ask somebody to keep an eye on his lifestyle."
Jane Keir, family law partner at Kingsley Napley, has extended the use of private investigators' skills to tracing children abducted overseas by one half of a broken marriage.
"Private investigators never cease to amaze me," says Keir. "They can get all sorts of records. They can find out who owns boats and use all kinds of disguises."
They are also used in other areas of legal work because their investigative methods are needed to trace information or possible witnesses in a case. They can also take on legwork, such as serving papers or taking statements from people who cannot come to the office.
John Harding, a partner at Kingsley Napley, says: "In some of the major crimes we deal with here, it is more cost-effective to use their expertise.
"They are often ex-policemen and can find individuals more easily. They are better at things like taking pictures of people or scenes, or tracking down people who can't - or won't - come to your office."
But cloak and dagger techniques can sometimes raise ethical and, when the case comes to court, legal questions.
One senior solicitor says: "A law firm must be careful it doesn't hire someone who is likely to do anything with which it would not wish to be associated."
Denton Hall's Wood adds: "The careful firms would brief the investigator very carefully and spell out what they want them to do."
But problems can arise after the briefing which have to be solved by the investigator thinking on his feet.
Kingsley Napley's Keir says: "Private detectives can be a double-edged weapon. Some of the information they can get for you can't be used because it would mean you would have to disclose how you got it."
So given the difficulties, why do law firms use investigators? The answer is a mixture of cost and technique. At between £25 and £40 an hour plus expenses in London, their charges for non-legal work, such as paper serving, are much cheaper than using a solicitor.
According to Stephenson Harwood's Hackett, they are much better at certain kinds of work than those normally employed in-house by a law firm.
She says: "On one occasion, I hired somebody to serve a divorce petition on a wife when we knew she would be dropping the children off at school, and he warned me off doing it in front of the children. It could have saved us embarrassment."
Robert Hunter, a fraud litigation partner with Allen & Overy, says: "On the right case, they can mean the difference between success and failure."
Nevertheless, investigators have been known to put cases in jeopardy through their tactics. Harding says any lingering temptation to cut corners must be quashed to stay in line with the new Criminal Justice Act. "If we get caught using information which is unlawfully obtained, we could be in trouble ourselves," he adds.
The Act makes it an offence to obtain information which contravenes certain sections of the Data Protection Act if the person acquiring the material knows it is in breach of those sections.
Detectives in divorce work will face added difficulty from the Family Law Bill, if it passes unscathed through Parliament.
Hackett says the Bill will add to the trend towards conciliation in divorce cases. People will not need to dig the dirt, and when it is time to serve papers, they will often be accepted.
"In the olden days, you would have all these private detectives digging round to see who hubby has gone off with. There is no need for that any more," says Hackett. "What we are moving towards is no-fault divorce, so you haven't got to prove that somebody has committed adultery."
Keir adds: "If fault, adultery and behaviour are abolished as grounds for divorce, then obviously we won't be using them [PIs] for that any more."
If that is the case, does it mean the end of the private eye in divorce cases? Hackett thinks not. She says: "It still doesn't matter as we will need reports on the financial side of things. What happened has no bearing on that side, and that is the side people are more concerned about when taking action."


text:
Romney In SD To Campaign For Rounds
The former Republican presidential nominee is on a 27-state tour supporting Republicans.
Suspect Arrested In Charles Mix County Incident
Russell Turner Junior, 40, was arrested on several charges.
Longtime Mitchell High School Teacher Roger Allen Passes Away
He died in Sioux Falls under hospice care on Friday.
Senate Candidates Hold Debate In Vermillion
Topics included the EB-5 program, Congressional gridlock, and immigration reform.
South Dakota Voters To Decide On Deadwood Gambling Expansion
Supporters say the new games would attract younger players.
MTI Foundation Receives Record-Setting Gift
Earl Nordby of Huron and his family donated $1 million dollars to the school.
More Than $560,000 Spent On Ballot Measure Ads
The money was spent on ads regarding Initiated Measure 17.
Investigation Into EB-5 Program Is Active
An FBI spokesman confirmed the investigation is active.
Mitchell Named Smart21 Community For Third Year In A Row
Four other American cities were also nominated.
Mitchell Woman Injured In Accident
18-year old Kerissa Plooster was taken to the hospital with minor injuries.
Motor Home Catches Fire On I-90
No one was injured in the fire.
Child's Death Being Investigated
The death occurred on the Cheyenne River Indian Reservation.
Davison County Commission To Swear In New Member
Brenda Bode of Mount Vernon will be sworn in on Tuesday.
Mitchell To Put City Hall Project On Hold
The council voted 4-4, with Mayor Ken Tracy casting the deciding vote.
Four Senate Candidates Disagree On How To Change Congress
The candidates are running for retiring Senator Tim Johnson's seat.
Hunters Hit Fields On Opening Weekend In SD
The season runs through January 4th.
City Council To Decide On City Project
Monday's meeting begins at 7:30 pm.
Farmers Aided by Dry Conditions
Dry conditions help farmers with planting winter wheat and harvesting row crops
Davison County Commission Interviews Candidates
Brenda Bode elected to fill the empty district 3 seat.
Candidate Forum To Be Held Monday Night
The forum will be held at 5 pm at the MTI Amphitheater.


text:
22nd July 2012
Photoset with 70 notes
4 in by 4.5 in bit of randoms that I drew because I have no life. Anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours spent on an individual one. Quotes from the series, I don't own anything.
Tagged: Cabin PressureThe Lemon is in PlayJelly Babies
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Welcome to maritime-insight! We provide customised consulting, analysis and forecasts for a wide range of maritime issues. maritime-insight is formed by the former employees of IHS Fairplay (Lloyds' Register Fairplay) research & consultancy. Ranging from forecasting newbuilding orders to evaluate and suggest policy options, including emission calculations, we form a highly experienced team. Whether you want to study a potential market or wish an analysis of how new regulations will impact your revenues we will have a good solution for your business. We base our consultancy work on the maritime-insight approach. The ships data we use is IHS register of ships data and when monitoring ships we use AIS movement derived from IHS AIS-live.
Meet maritime-insight at SMM
Are you going to SMM in Hamburg 9-12 September? Take the opportunity to meet Chris Pålsson & Niklas Bengtsson. Send an e-mail to firstname.lastname@example.com and suggest a time and day.
mi meeting: Shipbuilding market outlook
When: 22 April, 2014.
Where: Millennium Gloucester Hotel, 4-18 Harrington Gardens, London
maritime-insight presents the mi-meeting: Shipbuilding market outlook. Join the market leading ship equipment manufacturers and take part of maritime-insight's forecasts of new ship ordering 2014-2018.
The insightful speakers from maritime-insight will present five year new ship ordering forecasts and the drivers behind these forecasts.
Other speakers are Frederikke Munk Sørensen, Business Analyst at MAN Diesel & Turbo, Jakub Walenkiewicz, Principal Market Analyst at DNV GL and Rob Willmington, Operations Manager at IHS Maritime.
The event will be chaired by John Dowden, Senior Manager at the UK Chamber of Shipping.
Download the programme here.
mi meeting takes place just prior to the Annual Marine Propulsion & Auxiliary Machinery Conference, which is held at the same hotel 23-24 April.
Speaker at Cyprus Shipping Forecast Forum
Niklas Bengtsson will participate in the 2nd Cyprus Shipping Forecast Forum that will take place on 21st of March 2014. He will speak about Forecast of Container Markets!
mi meeting: The Baltic Sea General Cargo Championship
Container vs. Roro vs. General Cargo
27 March 2014 in Gothenburg, Sweden
We are happy to present the distinguished speakers at the mi meeting Baltic Sea General Cargo Championship. mi meeting will take place at St Jörgen Park Resort, Knipplekullen 8-10 in Göteborg. The conference will start at 13:00 and end at 17:30. Before dinner, there will be time to visit the award winning spa. More info at http://www.sanktjorgenpark.se/index.asp/lang/1033
mi meeting: The tanker shipping markets
The next mi meeting will take place on 17 October in Gothenburg and the main theme will be the tanker shipping markets in North Europe.
Mark the date: Shipbuilding outlook club workshop
The next club workshop will be held on Tuesday 10 September, 2013 in Gothenburg. The workshop is for club members only. Would you like to participate? Contact email@example.com.
Further details to be announced.
Norshipping 2013
Meet Christopher Pålsson and Niklas Bengtsson at Norshipping in Oslo 4-7 June. Send an e-mail to email@example.com.
See you there!
mi meeting: The General Cargo Championship & Shipbuilding 5 year outlook
When: 14 May, 2013. 13:00-18:00 + dinner
Where: Radisson Blu Riverside Hotel, Gothenburg, Sweden
70 page report with analyses and 10 year forecasts
Shipbuilding outlook report – Spring 2013
This new report from maritime-insight provides drivers and forecasts for new ship ordering. The table of contents is displayed below. For more information or if you would like to place an order, contact firstname.lastname@example.com


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Bio: "LYRICAL VISION" is an underground HIPHOP/RAP group originating out of Northern California.Artist include Ryan Robinson A.K.A. REAL VISION, Richie Stanfield A.K.A. YOUNG VISION, Thomas Wills/Widener A.K.A TROUBLED VISION, and Jessica Brock A.K.A. LUNI VISION. Although "LYRICAL VISION" has been i... See Full BioMore Info
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Paid admission gets you a free CD of Cali Fire Volume 3 & 4!
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Winterfest 2012 at the Zoo in Orovilee, CA. Performers from all over the Northern California area. Should smack!. Get in free with a toy!
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Hip Hop Music Festival All Ages 21+ Wristbands Are required For Alcohol
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The Zoo Nightclub 2021 Baldwin Ave, Oroville, CA Come out to Oroville to be a part of the Monter Mayhem! Its gonna be a badass show- We are bustin out with the madness starting at 8pm and have 9 sets. Party is going on all night and theres no cover ya'll! check out the flavor! Crash Munny Lyrical Vision Tonez the Sik Case Head Hunterz Dag Nabbit Merduh the Innocynce Lower Level Cooley Killz feat. KDuBB Brutha Smith feat. Miss Psycho Sideshow Drink specials all night. 21+
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Lebanon Newswire
Comprehensive Real-Time News Feed for Lebanon, IN.
Results 1 - 20 of 20 for "u:washingtonpost.com" in Lebanon, IN
Israel raises the dead with skyward cemetery w/Photo
In this Oct. 14, 2014, photo, a Lebanese man, center, walks between graves at the overcrowded Bashoura cemetery for Muslim Sunnis in Beirut, Lebanon. The congested city of more than one million is cramped with cemeteries wedged into residential areas, increasingly forcing families to bury several members of the same family in one grave. Comment?
Syrians attacked in Lebanon after soldiers killed w/Photo
In this photo taken Wednesday, Sept. 10, 2014, displaced Syrians who fled their home in their country stand near tents that were burned by gunmen at a Syrian refugee camp in the village of Brital in the eastern Bekaa Valley, Lebanon. Comment?
AP Analysis: US wary over hitting Syrian militants w/Photo
In this Tuesday, July 22, 2014, file photo, a sign is posted at a checkpoint belonging to the Islamic State group, captured from the Iraqi Army, at the main entrance of Rawah, 175 miles northwest of Baghdad, Iraq. Arabic reads, "Islamic State, the Emirate of Anbar, City of Rawah." Comment?
Holy month of Ramadan is a big boon for retailers w/Photo
In this July 12, 2014 photo, Lebanese shoppers are seen reflected, at left, by a shop window that is decorated with the Islamic crescent symbol representing the season of Ramadan, with the words, "Happy Ramadan," bottom, at the Beirut Mall, in downtown Beirut, Lebanon. Comment?
Bulgaria identifies bomber of Israeli tourist bus w/Photo
Bulgaria has identified a suicide bomber who blew up a bus containing Israeli tourists two years ago as a dual Lebanese-French citizen. Comment?
Anxiety grips Lebanon following blasts, arrests w/Photo
In this Thursday, June 26, 2014, file photo, tourists leave Beirut's Ramada Hotel as security forces raided some rooms in the building in Beirut. Comment?
STORY: Rockets from Gaza and Lebanon strike Israel
Rocket fire from both the Gaza Strip and Lebanon struck Israel Friday morning as fears of a possible Israeli ground invasion rose in Gaza and Israel warned some residents of the crowded coastal enclave to leave their border-area homes. Comment?
STORY: Beyonc and J-Lo's designers cap Paris couture
Not bad for "up-and-coming" houses Ralph & Russo and Zuhair Murad - part of a new wave of business-minded couture designers - whose shows capped fall-winter 2014-15 shows Thursday. Comment?
Lebanon: Beirut hotel bomber is Saudi citizen w/Photo
Fire engines work on extinguishing a fire after a suicide bomber blew himself up in his room at a Beirut hotel, Lebanon, Wednesday, June 25, 2014, as Lebanese security forces raided the premises. Comment?
Ex-Syrian players form opposition team in exile w/Photo
In this photo taken on Tuesday June 10, 2014, Mohammed Meslamani, center, a player of Syrian opposition team, made up of former professional and national youth soccer players who became refugees in Lebanon, fights for the ball against Lebanese players, left and right, during a match against a Lebanese team, at a makeshift pitch in Tripoli, north ... (more) Comment?
5If you want to be swept off your feet, Washington isn't your kind of town w/Photo
In a story about Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and former labor secretary Elaine Chao published in Wednesday's New York Times, a family friend says of the couple's meet-cute, "I don't want to say that sparks flew, because that's not the way either of them is." Comment?
Syrians stream back into Homs after rebels depart
Thousands of Syrians streamed into war-battered parts of Homs's city center for the first time in nearly two years Saturday, many making plans to move back just days after rebels surrendered their stronghold to pro-government forces. Comment?
Syria's historic Crusader castle damaged by war w/Photo
This photo made on Thursday, May 1, 2014, shows Crac des Chevaliers, top center, the world's best preserved medieval Crusader castle, above the destroyed Sunni village of Hosn in Syria. Comment?
Mideast conflicts meet in tiny patch of Lebanon w/Photo
In this picture taken on Tuesday, April 22, 2014, Lebanese army soldiers patrol a road near Ras al-Haref mountain at the unmarked Lebanese-Syrian border, eastern Lebanon. Comment?
Syrian rebels make last stand for Homs w/Photo
File-This file photo released on Thursday Nov. 29, 2012 by the anti-government activist group Homs City Union of The Syrian Revolution, which has been authenticated based on its contents and other AP reporting, Syrian citizens walk in a destroyed street that was attacked by Syrian forces warplanes, at Abu al-Hol street in Homs province, Syria. Comment?
Construction frenzy in Beirut alters city skyline w/Photo
In this April 10, 2014 photo, luxury high-rise buildings line the seafront, in Beirut Lebanon. Comment?
Hezbollah develops new tactics in Syrian civil war
The commandos infiltrated Syrian rebel-held territory near the Lebanese border, watching rebel fighters come and go from a two-story villa before slipping inside to plant a powerful bomb. Comment?
From a the most beautiful placea to the streets of Beirut w/Photo
It was 10 p.m. on a chilly recent Wednesday, and the bars of Beirut were just getting into full swing. Comment?
A look at Syrian refugees in neighboring countries
This Wednesday, Dec. 18, 2013 file photo shows Syrian children passing time while waiting with their families at the U.N. refugee agency's registration center in Zahleh, in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. Comment?
Syrians adjust to life without limbs
In this Thursday, March. 27, 2014 photo, Mustafa Ahmad, left, a 19-year-old who lost his leg in his hometown of Deir Hafer in Aleppo province in November 2011 when government warplanes bombed his neighborhood, is fitted with a prosthetic leg by a Lebanese prosthetic limb maker, right, at the Syrian refugee camp in Jib Janine, in the Bekaa valley, ... (more) Comment?
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Category: Toys, Dolls, Games & Puzzles
LIONEL: POSTWAR 6220 SANTA FE DIECAST FRAME BELL RINGING DIESEL SWITCHER IN EXCELLENT MINUS CONDITION. THIS IS THE MORE DESIREABLE VARIATION WITH TEN HAND RAIL STANCHIONS. IT RUNS GREAT, THE E-UNIT CYCLES WITHOUT HESITATION, THE BELL RINGS, AND THE LIGHTS ILLUMINATE. THESE SWITCHERS ARE GREAT PULLERS WITH THE COMBINATION OF WEIGHT AND STRONG MAGNE-TRACTION. OVERALL THIS UNIT HAS AN EXCELLENT APPEARANCE WITH VERY STRONG LETTERING AND A FEW MINUTE NICKS AND SCRATCHES BUT THE ORIGINAL RADIO WHEEL IS BENT BACKWARDS AND THERE ARE SOME PAINT CHIPS ON THE UNDERSIDE. THIS IS A LOW MILEAGE UNIT WITH YEARS OF USAGE AHEAD OF IT. YOU WILL NOT BE DISSAPOINTED! PLEASE SEE THE ENLARGEABLE PHOTOS. ALL SIDES SHOWN IN PHOTOS. SHIPPING INSURANCE IS INCLUDED IN THE SHIPPING CALCULATION ON THIS ITEM!AVOID HIGH GAS PRICES AND LOW STORE INVENTORIES BY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OUR EBAY STORE!FOR RARE AND UNUSUAL POSTWAR LIONEL VISIT OUR COMPANION STORE: MIKE'S RARE POSTWAR LIONEL TRAINS!As always we charge actual shipping only! We NEVER charge a handling fee!WE WILL COMBINE SHIPPING TO SAVE YOU $. Please VISIT OUR EBAY STORE FOR GREAT LIONEL, KUSAN, and PLASTICVILLE.
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