text:
- Davut Hydyrov
- Warsaw
- Poland
This conversation is closed.
Atheists also beleive.
If one analyses a lion; its teeth, its paws, its strength etc. s/he would understand that it is wild beast that wouldnot prefer eating leaves or vegetables. It would be obvious that this type of an animal prefers hunting bloody meat.
If one analyses a car; its engines, its pipes etc. s/he would understand that a car will not be able to work with water or coke.
If the same analyses a person;its inner world, s/he would take in that this creature is structured to believe in something; Ancient Greeks beleived in gods(Zeus,Paseidon...),middle age arabs to Lutta,Uzza..., Buddists to Dyo,Catholics to God,Orthodoxs to Bog,Muslims to Allah, Satanists to satan and atheists beleive that the Creator doesnot exist.
It would be paradoxical but Atheists also do beleive.
Jan 26 2012: 'It would be paradoxical but Atheists also do beleive.'
Well its not just paradoxical, its nonsense.
A person who doesn't believe a claim =/= a person who does.
By that logic there are two types of people, those who believe unicorns exist and those who don't, therefore everyone believes...Sorry but thats just an asinine conclusion, I can't see any nice way of putting it.
Jan 26 2012: The point I am driving to, is that we humanity are intrinsically structured to beleive in Something.
Jan 26 2012: 'The point I am driving to, is that we humanity are intrinsically structured to beleive in Something.'
But atheism isn't a belief in something, its a disbelief.
You believe something exists and I don't believe your position is true: Thats atheism
Its not a belief its a lack there of.
Even if I (a life long gnostic atheist) was to agree with your definition of atheism (which I don't), it still wouldn't make sense for the same reason as saying to your daughter that 'monsters dont exist' wouldn't conclude that you're holding a positive and active belief system. The only reason why the semantics are applied in this case is because people just so happen to be accustomed to this concept over the former, which is basically the logical fallacy of special pleading.
Jan 26 2012: Dear friend, I respect your position,sincerely!
If your will be here is a story i encountered two days ago; while I was walking through the street i suddenly realized that the cat of our neiborhood converted to a lion and was about to attack me;with scare i started running and amazingly, I realized that i can fly. After a while, rescuing myself from a cat, i attemted to land down however i couldnot see any land under my feet, meanwhile i decided to fly to the moon,where i stayed for a day(day lasts there 64hours) The next day,fortunately i found my place.
I know you found it very nonsense, but i am terribly sorry, it is the same what you beleive in, by leaving all the well-designed universe to the hands of coincidence.
Please, do not get me wrong I donot intend to be destructive and offensive because my belief teaches me not to be so.Regards.Jan 26 2012: Eyes- for looking; Ears- for listening; Nose- for smelling...etc.,
Heart- for only pumping blood?! I do not think so; it is for LOVING,BELEIVING and TRUSTING.
Jan 26 2012: mmm Animals have hearts too... (for the record, i personally believe we are also animals, ooops it that a believe equal to believing in god?...)
EDIT HERE: sorry, I was being sarcastic, I don't consider the existence of god or souls to be reasonable propositions. We are animals, our emotions are not so special, we do have a very large brain…
Jan 26 2012: Yes we are animals with an INTELLECT which is the vivid difference between us and them.
I understood from your comment that animals are brutal thogh they have a heart. Then how would you explain a passionate care of brutal mother-lioness to its kids ?!Jan 26 2012: Moreover, my friend,beleive me, God is not needy in anybody to beleive in Him; it is `we` who need to do that. Infact i am not a sort of missionair preaching religion here, i am, perhaps,a guy like you who admires playing football, watching TV, having fun. RegardsJan 26 2012: Well, let's look at the EVIDENCE.
If we look at our ancestor, we see that we evolved from a common ancestor to bobos and chimps. If we look at our physiology, we have the exact same body parts as other animals. it is clearly evident that we are animals that happened to have evolved a larger brain. Conclusion: we are animals.
If we look at any religion out there: There is not a single speck of evidence that there is any validity of any of their claims. Conclusion: Religions are false.
Regarding your question: Is the belief that we are animals the same as a belief in "god"? One has evidence and the other has evidence against it. Conclusion: fact vs delusion. Therefore I think the answer is "No".
Seems pretty simple to me. LOLJan 26 2012: No, that would be wrong. The heart does not have emotions. Those come from our minds. Other animals have "kindness" toward their young for the same reason we do; it is a survival (of the species) instinct.Jan 27 2012: yes i believe. i believe in purposeful action of human beings to improve conditions. i believe that the world is understandable to some degree, and reasonable choices can be made. i believe that we have a future than brighter than the past. at least i believe it is possible if we work on it. i believe that cooperation is better than conflict. i believe that with some effort, we can tell wrong and right apart. i believe that reason prevails in the long run.
i can prove none of these. i just believe. and i assert that believing in these things are good. and believing in god is not good.Jan 26 2012: Just because we are susceptible to delusion, does not lend those delusions any validity. As our intellect was growing, we looked for answers that we were not capable of providing for ourselves. In the frustration of facing our own ignorance, we invented supernatural beings that we could praise or blame for the natural processes around us.
Atheism is the act of looking toward evidence and logic to answer questions, as opposed to using superstition and fairy tales.
Saying that an Atheist is a "believer" is the same as saying that someone who doesn't collect stamps is still a hobbyist. To say that it requires a "belief system" in order to disregard nonsensical fairy tales because there is no evidence to support any of the concepts just goes to show how desperate you are to try to create some equilibrium between delusional superstitions and rational thought.
Jan 26 2012: 'As our intellect was growing, we looked for answers that we were not capable of providing for ourselves. '
Let us also not forget that almost every believer in existence is one through indoctrination rather than a personal thought-process which led to that conclusion.
So its not even 'people' looking for answers, rather, several people hundreds of years earlier.
One side of my family were originally all catholics, but as one member of the family found out when creating a family tree --Everyone born into the family were 'catholics' solely by birth. We then later found that we could pinpoint the person who introduced the religion to the family.
It was simply 1 man who came into the family as a catholic, convinced his wife to be one aswell and then had 7 children, raising all of them as catholics aswell, and thats what led to that part of the family all being catholics a number of generations later.
Apparently divine truth relies on convincing four year olds to continue its message..Jan 27 2012: Hi Keith.
"Saying that an Atheist is a "believer" is the same as saying that someone who doesn't collect stamps is still a hobbyist. "
You have a point. However Atheism pretty much obliges one to be a materialist. You must believe that everything originated from a material source without any immaterial assistance. That requires faith.
Jan 27 2012: I'm sorry, but do you even know what the word "faith" means? Let's look at the definition: "belief that is not based on proof" or "belief and trust in and loyalty to God". Nope, neither definition describes when I see ore mined from rock, then smelted and formed into iron and then forged into steel, how I "believe" that the steel that I am using comes from the earth and not some magic fairy.
Unlike theist, rationally minded people actually accept that there are things we don't know. How did the universe begin? We don't know. The problem for you is that, just because I don't know, doesn't automatically prove that any crazy story that you make up is true.
I know that theists like to try to say that atheist have "beliefs" and "faith" in order to try to put us on the same footing. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Theists believe in their fairy tales DESPITE all the evidence against the truth of those delusions. Atheists' "beliefs" (if you MUST call them that) are based solely on evidence, not the lack thereof or to the contrary.
Here's an exercise: You explain to me how all other religions are invalid except for yours (WITHOUT simply saying the bible is the word of god because the bible says so, and if the bible says so it must be true because it's the word of god. Circular reasoning is not allowed.). Once you have explained and proven why all other religions are invalid except yours, I will use that same reasoning to explain why yours is just as invalid as all the rest. How does that sound?
Jan 28 2012: Hi Keith
"Let's look at the definition: "belief that is not based on proof""
You believe that the universe was made without intelligent input; that requires faith as it cannot be proven.
I do not engage in debate with advocates of sky fairies, teapots, etc., it would be a waste of my time.
:-)Jan 27 2012: I'm betting that you think evolution is "just a theory", too, right? That's because you make the same mistake with the word "theory" as you are making with "belief". The Scientific Theory of Evolution strives to explain how the Scientific Fact of Evolution occurs. This is not at all the same as the "theory" (i.e. an abstract thought or speculation) that some magic sky fairy "created" everything on a whim. You will say that something cannot come out of nothing, so therefore the Big Bang is wrong. But on the other hand, you will claim that god made everything out of nothing, which is completely rational (to you). However, even if there was some supernatural invisible pink unicorn that waved it horn and magiced everything into existence, that in no way lends any credence to YOUR version of any sky fairy. You can't claim that yours is the first delusional superstition that came up with a creation myth and yours is certainly no more valid than any other fairy tale.
All in all, your argument is just a childish attempt to say that your "beliefs" with no evidence at all except at best circumstantial evidence, but what is really just speculation on your part, are just as valid as my "lack of belief" (which stems specifically from observable evidence), which just doesn't hold any water at all.Jan 28 2012: You are right but the point I am driving to is that humanity is intrinsically functioned or structured to beleive in Something. In other words, there is an ultimate truth laying beyond our minds which we humanity throughout centuries are seeking for it.
Jan 29 2012: Partially agree. We do seem to seek understanding. We do develop world views or paradigms to make sense of life the universe and everything. I suggest this is an evolutionary outcome that has helped make a very successful species. Our beliefs about the universe have been enriched by science and culture, our language and writing ability to pass stories and knowledge from one generation to another.
Of course we also tend to think the universe revolves around us. That it was created specifically for us, even though most of it is light years away and redundant. Our tendency to take an anthropological view point can also be explained by science.
Agree the religious meme is sticky and widespread.
It is a great leap from observing that religious belief is very common to suggesting there is some absolute truth or god we can barely comprehend. Perhaps the absolute truth is none of the theist views got it right. But there is a chance you are correct just like any other extravagant claim that can not be proven one way or the other.
Language is also widespread. Perhaps there is an ultimate language or method of communication that we have been seeking for centuries.
Robert Ezell
Jan 28 2012: I'm an atheist. Just to be clear, as many seem to be confused by that label, that means I do not believe that any god or gods actually exist; and, it does not mean that I believe that no god(s) actually exist.
- +1
I'm not a materialist. I do not believe that everything is ultimately composed of some sort of substantial stuff. I care not for the atoms of Democritus, corpuscles, "particles", super strings, or lego blocks. I find the materialist notion that things are made of substantial entities unfounded. Every time we think we found matter... it turns out that it wasn't matter at all; rather, the activity of some unknown stuff that we then considered to be the ultimate matter of things.
I'm an act of organs which are acts of tissues... cells... organelles... molecules... atoms... subatomic phenomena. Some subatomic phenomena are acts of other subatomic phenomena. We don't know much about those 'elementary' subatomic phenomena. We do know that they are accurately described as 'quanta of energy' which is a scientific way of saying 'discrete packets of measurable activity' which is a verbose way of saying 'acts'. I detect no hint of any 'matter' composing any of this.
I don't believe in 'spiritual' matter either.
In any case, atheism does not equate to materialism.
Peter Law
Jan 28 2012: Hi Robert.
- +1
Sorry for stereotyping you, I was speaking from personal experience, but of course there will be exceptions. Very refreshing, pleased to meet you.
:-)Jan 28 2012: @Peter Law - ""Let's look at the definition: "belief that is not based on proof""
You believe that the universe was made without intelligent input; that requires faith as it cannot be proven."
Let's look at how logic works: The "belief" that there was "intelligent input" of the creation of the universe is an assertion, and an exceptional one at that. Since you are the one making the assertion, the burden of proof lies on YOU to provide evidence, not me to provide evidence that any delusional superstition that you come up with is invalid. My lack of buying into your crazy fairy tales does not constitute a "belief", it is actually a "LACK OF BELIEF". Since, as you point out, "belief is not proof" (the only thing you've been right about so far, as far as I can tell), you have no PROOF or even EVIDENCE that your assertion have any validity.
"I do not engage in debate with advocates of sky fairies, teapots, etc., it would be a waste of my time."
Ironic, since you are the one that is an advocate for your particular brand of fairy tales. Also ironic, since you felt the need to engage in this conversation, but at the very end declared that you "refuse to engage". Too funny!!!Jan 28 2012: @Davut Hydyrov: "Two things; 1) How come that you leave such a perfectly designed universe to hands of coincidences."
First, where does your assertion come from that there is "perfect design"? I assert that nature is just that: nature. Why do you feel the need to add a "designer" to it? Second, even if there were "perfect design", why does there have to be intelligence behind it? And third, even if there is some sort of intelligence behind the creation of the universe, what is your proof that your sky fairy MUST be the only valid source of that intelligence? Just because you can't imagine that the universe didn't have intelligence behind the creation, does not make it a fact that there must have been. You are the one making the assertion, please provide empirical, examinable proof that your assertion is the only valid one.
"2) I would give you consent, if you manage to surmount the phenomenon which from the very beginning perpetually bothers humanity- DEATH. Atheism doesnot offer anything to sooth humanity..."
I'm not really sure what you are saying here, but I believe that you are basically saying that you feel the desperate need to have an afterlife and, since atheism professes that there is no afterlife, you think that makes atheism somehow "invalid". First, let's talk about the burden of proof. You claim that you believe there is an afterlife, and I say that I refuse to accept your claim. Since you are the one making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you to prove that there IS an afterlife, not on me to prove why I don't accept your assertion. You "feeling better" by believing in an afterlife does not provide evidence, not even circumstantial evidence, that such a condition exists. It is merely speculation.
As Peter Law clearly points out, "belief is not proof." My refusal to accept your assertion is not a "belief", indeed it is a "lack of belief." You are the one making the assertion, it is up to you to provide proof of it's validity.
Comment deleted
Jan 28 2012: 1. I didn't leave the design of the universe to coincidences. I wasn't around. If it were perfectly designed for us then the designer has the worst sense of economy conceivable. Why did he need to create trillions upon trillions of stars separated by many lightyears in order to accommodate what fails to amount to a speck of dust in comparison that we are all clinging onto. Given such vast magnitudes of space and time you don't need intellect for chance events to produce interesting or even 'miraculous' seeming effects. Once you get replicators replicating themselves with some variation and living or dying based on conditions in their habitat, and enough time, you don't need a designer of minds.
2. "Although very religious people fear death the least, studies suggest, total unbelievers take second place for ability to take their mortality in stride. The worst death anxieties haunt those who lie somewhere in between those extremes—who are a little religious."
Cited from: http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/050628_deathfearfrm.htm
Unless you are a religious zealot, I probably fear death less than you do. That doesn't surprise me since I don't fear death. I want to avoid it for now, sure. Am I certain of what will happen when I die? No. Most likely I shall simple cease to be. I find that much preferable to getting rewarded for venerating one who would damn me to eternal torture for not believing in or venerating them. I would find even eternal torment preferable to believing in and venerating such a villain.
Carlin Covey
Jan 29 2012: I agree that atheists also believe.
- +1
Everyone is a "believer", but not everyone believes in the same things. I am an atheist, and I believe in many things. I believe that there are protons in the nucleus of an atom, that there is a (former) planet named Pluto, and that the cells of my body contain DNA. I, personally, have no physical evidence of any of these things, yet I believe them all the same. I also believe that I could accumulate physical evidence of these things if I devoted enough time, energy and thought. But I instead choose to believe that many other individuals have already accumulated this evidence. So my own beliefs were acquired from "authorities", not directly from evidence.
I contend that it is the same with all of us. Those who believe in a god acquired this belief from other individuals that they chose to regard as "authorities" i.e. parents, priests, rabbis, imams, etc. I chose to regard my parents and my teachers as authorities. Although my parents and probably many of my teachers had religious views, they did not force them on me. So I acquired a secular belief system. I don't believe in the existence of gods, or fairies, or ghosts, or pyramid power, or any of hundreds of other supernatural phenomena. Yet there are many who do believe in these phenomena simply because they incorporated these phenomena into their belief systems as they grew up.
As long as a belief system is internally consistent and is not contradicted by well known facts, intellectually I can't see any reason to disparage such a belief system. Yet emotionally most of us do choose to disparage some belief systems that differ from our own. For instance, many people would laugh at someone who believes in leprechauns, but not one who believes in God. So please feel free to laugh at me for believing in protons.
Malika Leys
Jan 28 2012: I personally think that atheists as well as religious people are believers. One person believes there is no God and the others believe there is. Being sure there is nog God or higher instance, or being sure that their is a God, isn't there some lack of humility on both accounts.
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Sometimes science behaves like it is a religion : Some scientist have proven (read : believe) that their is no such thing as global warming and others prove ( read believe) that their is. another example Black holes. If we are honest, how many people have seen a black hole ? How many people now what a black hole is. But there is a scientist that is creating black holes, and she is convinced it is a black hole. One could almost compare her with a prophet. Is it true ? Is it false ? How can she be so certain of something that has only be observed in a distance ? 7800 light years away according to a mathematical model. And if I am not wrong a mathematical model made by man ?
For us non scientist, well we surely don't know. We put our trust and beliefs and act upon it depending on the people we choose to believe, be that a particular scientists, the reverend, the rabbi, a prophet, scientific discovery or religion.
I think we are all believers and then in some areas we just don't know, the agnostics. It seems that being an agnostic is a more humble approach to life and forces around it ? An example : I don't know if reincarnation is true. But, by God, I hope not. :-) Just to be on the safe side, lets not do anything that we will regret in the afterlife. If there is any afterlife ? Because I just don't know.
Robert Ezell
Jan 28 2012: Not all atheists believe there is no god.
- +3
A theist is one who believes that some god(s) actually exist.
An atheist is the logical negation of a theist; that is, one for whom it is not the case that they believe some god(s) actually exist.
I agree that agnosticism is a good approach. Agnosticism deals with knowledge, not belief. One can claim to know a claim is true or false, and be a gnostic... or they can say they dont know and be an agnostic.
I, for example, am an agnostic atheist. If there actually exists some god(s), I'd love to find out. As of yet, I haven't encountered any good reason or evidence to justify that there actually exists some god(s). If I ever do, I'll become a theist.
I just get tired of all the straw-manning of the atheist position that abounds around here.
Malika Leys
Jan 28 2012: Hi Robert,
- +1
it is sadly a vicious side-effect of social groups. Them versus us. It degrades very fast into intolerance and discrimination. It is almost unavoidable. Those who believe, believe that non believers have it all wrong. The stronger the feeling of belonging to a group (religious, political party, basketball team, town, school, click) the stronger the adverse feelings one develops for non-members.
Institutionalized groups thrive on making their members feel that they are better then the rest, that they are lucky to be part of such a wonderful group of intelligent people who are so right. It's a dangerous cocktail and very little good comes from it.
That's why I think it is so important to learn ourselves and our children the concept of real free will, of wondering and also always question one-self and others and even the law without disrespect. Just to make sure the morals are ok ?
Some psychotic persons aside, I think most of us know inside if something is morally good or not. If something is going to be bad for someone else or not regardless of cultural standards and differences.
As long as this is not a given, i guess all fora will contain some expression of non respect. I choose to politely ignore ?
Jan 29 2012: Agree we are tribal. Agree disagreements between different religious beliefs, and also between theist and non theist views range from the respectful, passionate, vigorous, personal insults, to the deadly in some places and times.
Given the powerful influence of these beliefs I suggest we should keep on with the debate, while trying to minimise violence.Jan 28 2012: That is a completely invalid argument, you are basically saying, oh because lots of people think there is a religion that is concrete proof. wow.
Jan 29 2012: the good old Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy I believe.Jan 27 2012: The error you make is to assume that belief has to be in something that isn't demonstrably true. We can believe in things that are demonstrably true. It's strange to say I believe in gravity instead of I accept it, but it's still correct. To accept by implication requires you to believe, it's just that believing on its own says less. Your whole argument doesn't really serve its purpose, sorry.
Jan 28 2012: Two things;
1) How come that you leave such a perfectly designed universe to hands of coincidences.Well.you would say we donot,then it means you are venturing that atoms, molecules,hemoglobin,lysosome,planets etc. are INTELLECTUAL beings that they masterly made their minds and function in a way they should function.
2) I would give you consent, if you manage to surmount the phenomenon which from the very beginning perpetually bothers humanity- DEATH. Atheism doesnot offer anything to sooth humanity, it shows DEATH as a gallows to be hung, by telling that after death we,humanity, are going to decay and meanwhile eaten by worms.Now hearken to your SELF, do you content with such final?!
Jan 29 2012: First of all, congratulations on providing a reply that is not a reply at all. You don't confront any of what I've said and instead launch into what will be yet another futile exchange between religious and non-religious. Second of all, pertaining to your 1), you asked me a question and then provided what you thought would be a logical explanation in my place. I can speak for myself thanks. I would actually say I do leave it to "coincidences" or as I like to call it, the laws of physics. Of course, '"coincidences" is your way of denigrating something that makes no sense to you. Finally, for 2) I have but one thing to say, it doesn't matter how you or I feel about death, nature is not suited to make us happy. We came along about a few thousand years ago, the universe has been around for like 13,7 billion years (what a perfect universe indeed /sarcasm), how I feel about death is irrelevant and I offer no solution, nor would it make sense for me to do so. Atheism is not a religion. But that's why you believe in religion right there, fear of death, that's an emotional belief, not a rational one. Good to you sir!Jan 29 2012: Suggest not all beliefs are equally likely to be correct. Not all opinions are of equal merit
Some claims are more extravagant than others. Some have more or less evidence.
Without getting into the rabbit holes of what is real, and absolute precision...
if I claim to have 2 legs, we agree on the definition of legs, you see I have 2 legs, there is a good chance we are correct.
If we repeatably measure acceleration due to gravity as 9.81m/s/s at ground level on planet earth... then claiming these to be true is a fairly well substantiated claim.
I'd suggest religious claims don't have a sound basis for their claims, or are proposed to operate in realm of spirit outside testable reality. Religious belief is incredibly diverse and malleable and faith in the unprovable or unlikely is seen as a virtue.
Ken Driese
Jan 27 2012: I don't BELIEVE that there is a god, but I do believe that to say so with certainty is as much an act of faith as to say with certainty that there is one.Feb 3 2012: Well , I listen the first 7 minutes of the talk , I realized I waste my time and I stop listening ,however I think I got it's idea and this is not about atheist to believe , I think it's more about making a selfish compromise between the needs a human have.Jan 31 2012: We, humanity, are structured to beleive into SOMETHING, all of us are seeking it. We, those with faith, beleive that there is One; and you beleive that there is nobody but human`s tales. So let it be, for you is your beleif and for me is mine.Jan 31 2012: Mr. Miossec have you seen any city, even a village without a mayor? Then how come that huge universe is without its peculiar mayor?!
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Feb 2 2012: that is not a very relevant comparision. who is governing the weather. who is governing the ocean. neptune? who is governing the sun.apollo? no one. you are applying a human perspective to a non human topic. anthropomorphisim.
Feb 2 2012: 1) relevant comparison
So you claim that all those fables are pointless and nonsense ,because they are applying animal perspective to human perspective?! Aisec`d have been dissapointed,had he heard this :).
2) murdery, violence,rape
Will you be able to show any verse suggesting murdery,violence,rape in any (so claimed) divine scriptures? Taurah,Bible,Kuran ? If `yes` please type them down.
3) death
Leaving scientific dispute aside, let us think what atheism offers as a remedy for death? Because,we have to admit, death is unbearable phenomenon for humanity. If your will be, allow me to tell you what religion offers humanity; As all members of a plant kingdom(particularly flowers) rebirth after so called Winter death, why then humanity kingdom willnot be rebirthed after Death?!
Feb 2 2012: You're not making any sense Davut.Feb 3 2012: Right Gabo , Davut don't make any sense .
Just simple thinking Davut in this universe exist the evil . But to be atheist because of such things it's also not making any sense.Feb 3 2012: Eduard: You're not making any sense either.Feb 3 2012: I knew you'll gonna write this :) .
Why am I not making any sense here ? because I said we shouldn't embrace atheism because of such reasons . Gabo, Davut tried to make an argument I think , in my opinion that's a wrong argument ; you have to understand our arguments don't define our God .Feb 3 2012: You'r not making any sense Eduard, because it's impossible to understand what you are trying to say.Feb 4 2012: Then I'm not making sense for you . We already have another discussion started .Jan 30 2012: Perhaps, I should be offended by the comments you are making, however I liked you, Mr.Miossec : ),seriously.
p.s Responses for comments are coming sooner,gonna go now.
Jan 31 2012: I don't think your should be offended Davut, those comments should have gotten you thinking what you might be doing wrong. Copying and pasting the very same comment a thousand times is one of those things you are not doing very well. What about you thought c.a.r.e.f.u.l.l.y about what people have told you instead?
By the way. I don't believe that "the creator" does not exist. I don't see any evidence that a creator does exist. On the other hand, I see plenty of evidence that gods are human inventions. Thus I conclude that gods don't exist. It's a conclusion, not a belief. All of this is very different to "believing" that some specific creator does not exist.
Now, rejecting your proposed god(s), does not mean we "leave everything to coincidences." But that we (or at least "I") leave everything to natural phenomena. Quite the difference yet again, right?
Hasta lueguito,
Jan 31 2012: With respect to your position `No ` not right ! It is first. The second, you might conclude for yourself that `there is no God`, however for me and many others there is. The third, I have thought carefully what these people (including you dear sir) told me, and I came up with next; I would thank everybody for their comments, beacuse each comment I got, strengthened my faith and made me firmer on my beliefs; I again comprehended how the axiom of atheism 1.0 is weak and invalid.I understood that the book can be somehow written on its own,without author, and you dears are able to scientifically prove it. Or that the bacterias in my room after 1000 years can become huge dinasours,(by the way I should add) by theory of natural phenomena. Thank you!
Feb 1 2012: If that's what you "learned" you were not listening. But so be it.Feb 2 2012: not sure if not believing a claim is the same as actively beliving the oppsite view.
in a way everthing we percieve or interpret about the world is a form of belief. i belive im typing on ted. who knows. i might be a computer programme. just some things are more or less evident. i agree that in this sense athiest believe something different to theists. the jump from not understanding every single aspect of our universe to explaing this with some super being is huge claim. especially today. we have been able to explain so much previously xplained with false assumptions. the world in not flat. earth is not the cantre of the solar system. volcanos dont erupt because of angry volcano gods.
i also dont believe in zeus fairies demons vishnu odin.
Manue M
Jan 30 2012: I am an agnostic. Agnostic theist or agnostic atheist? Well, I do not believe anything specific about what is out there. However, I love learning about new discoveries in science and dreaming about possible scenarios. Imagination is a powerful tool. I love to think I could be an avatar for example, who knows! I love pretending this or that really exists. I often pretend I really believe some spirit is giving me some wise answers or helping me find answers,and I am conscious that I am probably telling myself stories. The answers I get are awesome and the film is fabulous. It does help me in real life and it is fun. We have evolved to feel and see and experience things that are not real in order to survive (and if possible, as an extra, enjoy life on earth). A rainbow is not really real. We know that and we still enjoy watching it. We are aware of many illusions like how a colored dot is perceived differently depending on its environment. A red dot surrounded by pink looks pink.. On a green surrounding a red dot is standing out and almost glowing. If you fix that dot and close your eyes, you will see its complementary color instead. The scenarios that you can imagine or that you do believe, about why we are here and how we are here are always related to your time, personal history, environment, and culture. Good stories can color our life. My friend has a heavily handicapped baby and loves to believe that her baby was sent to her to make her a better person. Her story helps her. She is convinced that without that new belief, her or the baby would be dead. I think the day we will solve some of the greatest mysteries in science, more questions than ever before will arise. Also, there could be such a shift of paradigm that we could just discover that we have been all of us human beings completely wrong about everything. For now, some common believes are more improbable than others. In any case I hope that love, compassion, curiosity, imagination will spread always.Jan 29 2012: Atheists also believe what?Jan 28 2012: Yes, humans are geared to believe things.
- 0
We have developed brains that can actively adapt to changing conditions and incorporate information. Unlike a fly, we will not ram into a closed glass door over and over again because our brains are too small to do much more than follow genetically encoded behaviors. We have the advanced resources and behaviors to consider what is, accept some claims as true, others as false. When one accepts a statement as true, one has a belief.
We are free to believe pretty much whatever we like. Ideally, we would have evidence and or reason to justify our beliefs. We can't always do that. Sometimes we have to make do with what we have and consider some claims as likely or unlikely. Even those things that we believe we should be willing to revise in light of new evidence and or reason.
Faith doesn't do that. Faith is how to justify a belief without proper justification.
Yes, atheists believe too. That doesn't mean that atheists believe that no god(s) actually exist. Some do, others believe it better not to bother forming a belief about the actual existence of god(s) either way. After all, the cost of such an investment seems steep, and there is no evidence of any returns on that investment. It just doesn't seem to matter.
Jan 28 2012: 1-Brain,reason,intellect..
You speak about brain,reason,intellect etc. as if you put me and others who believe, in a position of ignorant docile beings. Allow me to correct you, the faith I posses is perfectly justified with logical proofs and the reason.You seem to be a person of an intellect, so how come that you pass by such a beatiful well arranged order(eg. cell structure, golden ratio, planet formation etc.). I think it is impossible to claim that `Sun after Bing Bang decided to pose itself in 23 angel degree twards Earth,so that earth will have 4 seasons; or that Mitochondria(in cell structure) made its mind to serve to cell with supplying energy because it did not like doing work Lysosome does(grinds food coming from outside); or atmosphere layers decided to be 7 because they didnot like any other number...etc.The thing I am ignorant is in ithat I do not understand how it is possible to leave them to Coincidences. Let us concieve that we have seperate letters U O Y E V O L I ; according to theory of Probability, what would be the probabilty of those letters when dropping them to become I LOVE YOU ?!
The point I am leading to is that it is impossible for them coincidencly form intellectual meaning without author or master!
Most think that people with faith are restrained on their wills thus they are dependent and not free.Well, those who think so may be right in some aspects; where as they might not know that religious people are more free than those who are without. Non-believers are perpetually sceptic,they do not have proper,concrete foundation to rely on, thus they can be easily dellusioned by any `mesmirizing` system (eg.Communism)
Jan 29 2012: Davut, you seem to be working backwards. Was the universe created to support life as we know it or did life evolve to survive in the natural universe as it is.
Why is it there is life on Earth, not Mercury or Venus, or the sun, or empty space (as far as we know - suggest there is a good chance of life somewhere else). Its just that the conditions weren't amenable. That doesn't mean Earth was made for humans.
Would we have been okay if the angle was slightly different? OR zero? Do we need seasons to survive? We might have been in trouble in the orbit was more elliptical. Or if earth was closer to the sun. Or if our atoms ended up in the sum rather than earth.
And in this supposed perfect universe, at some stage our Sun will expand and die. Earth will be obliterated. Just this is outside our puny human time scale. Asteroid hits or nearby super nova might do us in sooner. Also cancer, disease....
If our descendants survive on the galactic time scale, they probably won't be anything like we are now in 100,000 or a million years. Or another Billion.
Coincidence on a more human scale - I exist because my mother and father met, and their parents met, and their parents met etc. They all survived long enough to mate. Many of their siblings didn't.
Natural processes are going to have outcomes. They don't need a driver.
Perhaps believers are more open to views that clash with more religious views. Religious views seem compatible with Fascism, crusades, burning witches, stoning raped women, human sacrifice, keeping slaves, rascism, sexism, wars of aggression etc. My understanding is about 80% of the current population have some religious belief. I suggest they are responsible for a fair share of killing, lying, stealing, cheating, hatred going on. This is a human problem. I'd suggest religion doesn't seem any better than secular or humanist views on average. Even if atheism did result in worse social outcomes that doesn't make any religious belief system correctJan 28 2012: 3-Death
So death for you is just cessation of life and nothing else?! ...not to be :) Crazy advice: try yourself in a coffin for 3 minutes and imagine your END. I bet you will hold different language. For, if to hearken our ego, it is not content with mortality, it seeks infinity.
I sensed that you beleive in god, but sort of offended on Him. As if he is tyrant or despot making fun of us?! I respect your position but donot consent with that. The way you see is the way you think, the way you think is the way you enjoy your life ! Yes, there are some ostensible factors like poverty,handicapped births, calamaties,loss of very dear people that prompt us complaints,hates towards Him. But why donot we bother ourselves to ,a little, investigate; we are free,if we donot find persuasive answer,then here we go `Let us not trust Him.`
Dear friend let me tell you that He is not in need for our niether beleifs nor worships,it is we who need it. :) We are free to choose. By the way, I am not religious zealot as you would think of me, I am perhaps a guy like you who enjoys playing football,watching some good movies and having fun!Jan 28 2012: Example, there was an event in Somalia; according to CNN there was an explosion, for BBC there was a terrorist attack, for RT there people made a riot against government . We, the audience, are not sure what exactly happened there; but we are certain that SOMETHING had happened there. All religions beleive in something, we people are not sure what exactly there, but it is favourable that there is Something.
Jan 29 2012: They're all working with the evidence they have at the time. They know something has happened, that's like our knowledge of the universe at this current time. As the situation gets clearer, the reporting from all these channels will get more accurate, just like our scientific understanding marches us forward. What we shouldn't do, is fill in the gaps with our own story, which in all likelihood, won't turn out to be true. That is what religion does. It sees the universe, it jumps to the conclusion there is a God, based on no evidence whatsoever. Not that this metaphor is particularly good anyway, but ironically it serves my purpose.Jan 29 2012: Would you jump to the conclusion that god was responsible for the explosion in Somalia?
Given our understanding of plate tectonics today, would you assume a volcano erupts because the volcano god is angry. Is the sun a golden chariot?
I can understand how religion and supernatural filled these knowledge gaps in the past. I can understand that people were indoctrinated in their tribes religion and did not have the understanding we have today on how thousands if not millions of religious belief systems and interpretations have developed, evolved, been absorbed or died.
Given any set of facts or information and a contextual framework, it is reasonable to start trying to determine the most likely scenario without claiming you have the absolute truth. With proper consideration of the evidence, not trying to warp the evidence to suit your paradigms, understanding of the situation should become clearer. Obviously we shouldn't believe everything a human says is absolutely correct just because they are on CNN, or are the pope, or a supposed prophet, preacher, guru, or demi god.
Given our improved understanding today, and freedom, in some places, to choose which if any religious view makes the most sense, is it appropriate to jump to the extraordinary claim that some godlike being is responsible for the universe and in some cases believing this being is still intervening in our lives. Especially is you start to get specific and say it was the one that choose some desert dwelling tribes as his chosen people, or other mythology/religious claims.Jan 28 2012: Two things; 1) How come that you leave such a perfectly designed universe to hands of coincidences.Well.you would say we donot,then it means you are venturing that atoms, molecules,hemoglobin,lysosome,planets etc. are INTELLECTUAL beings that they masterly made their minds and function in a way they should function.
2) I would give you consent, if you manage to surmount the phenomenon which from the very beginning perpetually bothers humanity- DEATH. Atheism doesnot offer anything to sooth humanity, it shows DEATH as a gallows to be hung, by telling that after death we,humanity, are going to decay and meanwhile eaten by worms.Now hearken to your SELF, do you content with such final?!
Jan 29 2012: Wow, did you literally copy-paste that as your reply to me? Just a word of advice, if you're not willing to converse, neither will we.Jan 29 2012: I'm not sure if you are serious about these two questions. Anyway giving you the benefit of the doubt...
1. What makes you think the universe is perfect? Is it as good as it could be? What is the definition of a perfect universe? If I could, I'd design one without cancer.
It's a different question to ask how did the universe come about to be as it is today? Given the nature of matter, energy and the key forces, physical laws you'd expect the planets, life to operate within these constraints.
2. That's like arguing I feel sad about trees dying so there should be a tree heaven. Isn't isn't it sad all the animals died in the forest fire - there should be an animal afterlife. The fact that reality, life is not without its challenges and ultimately is finite (until we master the aging process etc), is not a sound argument for an afterlife.
Actually who would really want to live for ever? I could imagine a few hundred years if healthy, happy and comfortable, then expect I'd seek a final rest. At this stage I'd suggest our human minds are not infinity ready. Eternal life, if anything life actual life, would be torture after a point. Of course whichever deity is in charge would make it a nice experience for some and perhaps terrible for others. Its hard to argue an eternal afterlife experience would be a good one or a bad one given no one can explain what it's actually like and if they did our human brains would struggle to comprehend.Jan 28 2012: If there is One, then it means
- he is either master or amateur,
- he is aware of us or not,
- he is a merciful(who nurtures us) or a despot(who doesnot care about us);
Observing His masterpiece it is obvious that He is a great master,if he is a master, then he should think,if he can think, then he should be smart, if he is smart then there should be a point in creating us?!
Observing his outsanding masterpieces ( eg. cell structure, or galaxy) it is vivid that he is a Master; but is he a merciful master or a despot?! Let us think of Einstein, Einstein founded science of sophisticated physics,which shows that he was a master. Was he a tyrant who wanted to destroy whole earth with atomic bomb, or a devoted scientist who sought betterment for humanity?!
Jan 29 2012: All of your if statements are irrelevant until you can show the first if to be true. This post is literally a waste of keyboard strokes.
Jan 30 2012: 1. In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2. Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the world;
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace,
those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
Carlin Covey
Jan 30 2012: Davut,
- +1
You started a conversation on the theme that atheists also believe. Please stick to that theme. This is a forum for conversation, not for religious ritual.Jan 30 2012: 1. What
2. In
3. the world
4. Are you
5. on about
6. ?Jan 27 2012: My answer to this would be:
Does what you believe comfort you? Does it make you happy? Does your belief make you feel love? The reason I ask these questions is because I believe that we are endless and infinite, it's proven that man can change thought into reality. That being said if you could turn your thoughts and beliefs into a visible reality that you can see, touch, feel, hear, taste... Would that reality serve you well and make you feel loved? If yes then I believe you are on the right path if not then maybe you should choose to believe something else... It's your choice and you will always have one as we are our own will....


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Posted In Sector 9 - Skate Team by admin Monday, December 24, 2012
S9 Surf Team shreds North Shore Park
The Niners met up with the Transworld Surf bros for coldies at the Banzai Pipeline Skatepark. It's what you do when the surf goes flat.
See the full story on Transworld here: http://surf.transworld.net/1000155650/videos/cotes-cube-at-the-banzai-skate-park/

subset: commoncrawl


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Lung cancer symptoms - breathing (respiratory) problems
People with lung cancer may experience trouble breathing. Respiratory symptoms associated with lung cancer include shortness of breath (dyspnea), collapsed lung (atelectasis, pneumothorax), wheezing, recurring infections like pneumonia and bronchitis and blood clots in the lung (pulmonary embolism).
Learn about breathing problems as symptoms of lung cancer
Shortness of Breath
Shortness of breath (dyspnea) (Lung Cancer Alliance)
Dyspnea and coughing during advanced cancer (National Cancer Institute)
Struggling to breathe: tips for handling dypsnea (Broward Health)
Shortness of breath (Mayo Clinic)
Collapsed Lung (Atelectasis & Pneumothorax)
What is atelectasis? (National Heart Lung and Blood Institute)
Collapsed lung (U.S. National Library of Medicine)
Pneumothorax (Canadian Lung Association)
Wheezing (Medline Plus)
Pneumonia (Medline Plus)
Pulmonary Embolism and Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT)
Pulmonary embolism (Mayo Clinic)
What is pulmonary embolism (National Heart Lung and Blood Institute)
Pulmonary embolism (WebMD)
About DVT (Coalition to Prevent Deep-Vein Thrombosis)


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That famous story by O�Henry is often revisited at this holiday time of year. A young couple who are struggling financially have no money to buy each other the beautiful gifts they would like to give. Each of them has one possession they treasure: the husband, a gold watch that belonged to his father, the wife, her amazing long hair that reaches her knees. When the holiday arrives and they exchange their gifts, it turns out that the husband has sold his watch to buy special combs for his wife�s...
Tip of the Week
TIP OF THE WEEKIt�s the season for entertaining. Between the holidays, family gatherings and just needing an excuse to socialize during the long winter months, you�ll probably be organizing several fun parties and gatherings at your home.
Forgo the holiday cookie swap, and give homemade extracts instead.
These dishes are so satisfying and rich, they can (and should) be served as main dishes, especially appealing to the vegetarians in the crowd.
[WARNING: The following contains spoilers from the winter finale of Once Upon a Time. Read at your own risk, dearie!]�The
Local events and meetings for the day.
Samuel L. Jackson�has issued his own challenge to the celebrities who took part in the ALS Ice...
Jax Teller's ride may be over, but�Sons of Anarchy�will live forever in ratings...
- Events Calendar


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El Castillo
Travel To The Wonders Of The World
Here's a quick guide for families to the New Seven Wonders of the World and the only surviving original Seven Wonders of the World.
The 25 Best Beaches In The World
After months of polar vortexes it's finally almost time to lay out in the sun and sand. To help get the ball rolling, we rounded up the 25 best beaches in the world.


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Hall Tree with Mirror and Seating
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- Housing
- Dining Services
- Off-Campus Highlights
- Student Activities & Events
- Student Services
- International Student Services
- Student Profiles
- COA Gear
Student Profiles
Katie O'Brien
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Human Ecology Core Course
Intro to Oceanography
Political History and Modernization of Egypt
Biology 1
Oceans and Fishes
Advanced Composition
Fisheries and their Management
Gender in a Global Perspective
COA's Foodprint
Some mix of fisheries and politics. Maybe working for an international non-governmental organization on fisheries policy and conservation or actually doing fisheries research for a government. I'm not really sure yet.
Do you work on-campus? Where?
This year I will be a Resident Advisor, last year I worked in Admissions working on the COA Newsworthy website and designing admissions material.
What do you see yourself doing after COA?
Maybe going to grad school for fisheries, maybe traveling.
What country would you like to visit?
New Zealand, Iceland, India and so many more....
Where would you love to live?
Ireland or on a sailboat somewhere.
What is happiness to you?
Being on the water


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If you can dream it, you can do it. -Walt Disney
Quality is a great business plan. -John Lasseter
Let's make some funny pictures. -Tex Avery
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -Howard Zinn
When critics sit in judgment it is hard to tell where justice leaves off and vengeance begins. -Chuck Jones
And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? -Jesus
A man should never neglect his family for business. -Walt Disney
What's most important in animation is the emotions and the ideas being portrayed. -Ralph Bakshi
Once you have heard a strange audience burst into laughter at a film you directed, you realize what the word joy is all about. -Chuck Jones
Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -Buddhist Proverb
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Kyle Baker discusses the future
Share your views on the state of the Animation Industry.
6 posts • Page 1 of 1
Kyle Baker discusses the future
Kyle Baker, multi-award winning writer and illustrator discusses some important issues he's had to face as a creator. Listen carefully. What's right and wrong with his viewpoints?
Re: Kyle Baker discusses the future
I'm not sure as to what's right or wrong in what he said Greg, but my impression is that this is entirely consistent with what we've been talking about on AN for many years. Since the beginning.
It almost seems passe, but of course it's not. It's what's happening today and been happening. Artists operating independently, as their own executives, taking advantage of everything the big corporations do by doing it themselves.
The leveling of the playing field.
My continued impressions...
He describes his colleagues' reactions on his first day on the job as a Disney artist as something of a step backwards for him to be there working as a staff artist at the studio.
He's in two unions and it's interesting how he mentions that neither of them have helped him much.
He emphasizes that he makes just as much money publishing his own content on a smaller scale than he does working for a conglomerate such as Marvel.
It's a very encouraging speech and a validation for artists who are considering taking an independent path. Indeed, as time goes on, more and more artist will be doing what he's doing.
In fact, this was the subject of much of what we were talking about at the Evening of Animation event the Burbank Public Library sponsored on January 19. See here for the topic...
I'm curious as to your take on this. What do you say is right and what is wrong?
Re: Kyle Baker discusses the future
Charles, you took the words right out of my mouth.
When I heard this speech I said to myself, "Has Kyle been to AN? How could he not have known about it?"
My point is I've said the same thing he's saying now but I said it back in the 80's when I first met him briefly at DC Comics.
Now he's saying what we all here at AN have been saying for 12 years. Is it 13 years? Charles it's been a lonnng time and AN is such a part of the Animation industry there should be more recognition. Look at how many people used to hang out here and now have their own online venues but don't stop by to give you props?
Don't worry, I've got a goodie coming your way.
Anyhow, Baker sure has earned his keep. Look at the number of awards he's won. He's been batting them out of the park for years. Now he's discussing turbulent waters and his role in them. He's middle aged now. He's talking from both sides of the fence from freelancer to corporate player. Is he really taking responsibility for what's happened to him? Only time will tell which is why the video has 'future' in its title. It'll be interesting to see if he has a super mega hit one day.
Re: Kyle Baker discusses the future
That's right Greg. AN will 13 years old in February.
Perhaps a more appropriate title for this topic would be 'Kyle Baker discusses the present' or 'Kyle Baker discusses what he'll be dong in his future'. In case my words are misconstrued, I wish him well and hope he has great success.
Snakebite made a key point at the Burbank Public Library event on January 19. He mentioned that 'the future is yesterday' in connection with Kyle Baker is talking about and other things as well.
As far as AN getting its props from the industry, or rather not getting its props, I'll be back with more on that. First I'm going to post this topic on the homepage.
Re: Kyle Baker discusses the future
Thanks for the topic Greg.
It's on the homepage for this date.
Dedicated article
Re: Kyle Baker discusses the future
I don't really understand what he was saying. Though I'll admit my eyes glazed over after two minutes of "Here's what I've done in my life."
Animator Island: A resource for animators featuring weekly tips, tricks, and secrets of animation
6 posts • Page 1 of 1


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Lex Hilliard wallpaper. Free for anyone on finheaven to use as avatar or sig. Im thinking about making this a series. If you have any players in mind (past or present) let me know and I'll try to get it done. Any comments? This is the first wallpaper I've ever done so be kind.
(If you want the full size wallpaper just visit TheFinSpot.com and click on the contact bar at the top and send me an email.)


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- Independent
- The Enterprise
- The Recorder
LNG VP plans to do more community outreach
By AMANDA SCOTT
Staff writer
There is new leadership at the Dominion Cove Point plant in Lusby, where a $3.8 billion exportation project is proposed for construction this year.
Michael Frederick returned to the Cove Point Liquefied Natural Gas facility as the plant's vice president of liquefied natural gas operations Jan. 1.
Frederick joined Dominion in 1982 and held various positions in engineering and operations in gas transmission. When Dominion purchased the Cove Point facility in 2002, he led the transition team and was later named the director of LNG operations. Then, in September 2011, he joined Dominion Virginia Power leadership in Richmond as director of Electric Distribution Planning, Reliability and GIS Systems.
Upon arriving at the facility amid the controversial exportation project, Frederick said Friday during a tour of the existing facility, "One observation that I made pretty quickly, No. 1, is everybody is entitled to their own opinion … if they're basing it on facts."
When it comes to the proposed project, he said, there has been "a lot of information, some of it not very accurate, that's out there."
To remedy that, he said Dominion has plans to "do more outreach" and is scheduled to speak at about 15 upcoming community meetings.
The project — still awaiting approval from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission — has been described as one of the largest construction projects in Maryland. Frederick said that is a misnomer because of the $3.8 billion price tag, which mainly accounts for equipment and jobs.
The number and type of jobs the exportation project is expected to bring has been one of the most contentious points for those who have expressed opposition to the project, claiming the jobs are temporary and will put strain on the county's infrastructure.
The plant currently has about 100 employees, Frederick said, and will be increased by about 75 more employees with the exportation. Some existing employees are receiving training on liquefaction already, he said, adding that the company is looking for specialized liquefaction engineers.
While leading a tour of the facility, Frederick pointed out an existing small liquefier. He said the liquefier is from a previous contract and was used to supply energy to the grid during peak usage times. Compared to the 770 million cubic units Dominion plans to liquefy, the existing liquefier can only liquefy about 14 million cubic units, Frederick said.
"There's nobody more interested in protecting us than us," Frederick said in response to the concerns residents and community groups have raised about the safety of the exportation project. "... When Dominion is in a community, we're in a community. We do more than just operate here."


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Put your best foot forward for the Rangers when you slip on these dual-color team logo crew socks! Featuring a soft, cushioned body that offers classic New York style with woven team graphics on the cuffs and insteps as well as contrast-colored heels and toes, they're perfect for the fan who's looking for the next step in team pride!
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I will hate the Colts more than the Jets, Patriots, and Bills combined if they get Luck
I will hate the Colts more than the Jets, Patriots, and Bills combined if they get Luck
All that, and they were in our division for nearly 30 years. Some of my earliest memories as a fan was wanting to pour hot coffee on Jim Harbaugh.
Dallas Clark out for the year. Leg injury.
from what i have read, it said that he wont even meet with doctors again till december, and they will take it from their. it is very unlikely peyton plays in a real football game this year.
as far as hating the colts, i like peyton manning a lot, but damn do i hate this franchise.
what the **** is this? the one year their a qb touted as a guy who can potentially step in right away and be a franchise qb for 15 years they suddenly drop this low?
obviously losing peyton manning would hurt any team, as he is that good. However, how do you go from 10-12 wins yearly for the past decade, to a win less season due to the loss of one player?
their are plenty of teams in the league who don't have a manning type caliber qb, and several who don't even have a good qb period, and yet those teams still manage to be competitive, and even win 3-4 games. this colt team is a ****ing joke, and i hope luck back stabs them like Elway did to them.
They dont deserve a qb like luck, and they will look really bad when they just disgard their franchise player in peyton manning for a kid like luck, especially if manning is deemed healthy enough to play.
**** THE COLTS!!!!!!! However, i can never say i hate them as much as the jets or pats. jets especially.
the colts are tanking and we all know it.
just remember, this is the same Irsay family who has tanked the Colts seasons for Elway, Manning, and now Luck.
the same family who brought moving vans in the middle of the night to move out of baltimore to indianapolis, backstabbing the city.
if any owner in the league is capable of doing this, it's the irsay family.


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Update: I added the translucent and more slimy version. Check it out.
First, I want to thank the kind help of JustAnotherDave who has done an excellent job editing this instructable. Thank you very much :)
I'll show how to make your own high-quality slime (this slime is not Oobleck; it is not made with starch) in less than 15 minutes (the timing starts once you have gathered the materials). Of course, you will learn about two topics related to slime structure and behavior: polymers and non-Newtonian fluids. To learn what "rheopectic" means, keep reading.
First we are going to make slime, then I'll explain the science behind slime.
Step 1: Safety first
However, it involves the use of borax which can cause skin and eye irritation, so do not touch it and of course do not eat it. It is toxic if eaten! Wash your hands very well after you finish your project and do not use the spoons and flasks you used in this experiment for food any more.
The resulting slime is also safe for children older than 5 but is not for eating (just imagine what a very viscous polymer would do to any stomach!). If it is accidentally eaten, look for medical assistance immediately! I advise you to watch your kids while they are playing with it to avoid accidents. If you or your children are allergic to anything, by all means use gloves to manipulate the slime. I'm not responsible for any damage or accident caused by making or playing with slime.
it is also possible to easy to remove dust over the computer keyboard and systems mother board........???????????
I don't understand, I just agreed that it defeats the purpose of slime. Maybe I just don't follow your response.
Sorry, I'm fairly slow with understanding jokes. =P
Skin and eye irritation, they teach you how to make dangerous weapons here =D
The idea, here, is to temporarily thin the fluid with the ethanol, saturate a fabric, then evaporate the ethanol, leaving the fibers permeated with the non-Newtonian fluid.
This process is used to make Shear-Thickening Fluid, for use in soft body armour. STF-treated Kevlar four layers thick showed the same protective quality as fourteen layers of standard Kevlar.
Have you heard of the techniques necessary? Are there other solutions and processes which would produce the same effect?
or http://www.sciplus.com/recommend.cfm/recommendid/12661
Also, the FFVII music made me really happy.


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A fatal two-car accident in Springfield Thursday evening has taken the lives of three Pennsylvania residents who were all related and on their way to a funeral.
Virginia State Police said they are still investigating the cause of a two-vehicle fatal crash at the Springfield Interchange.
According to Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corrine Geller, at 7:03 p.m. on Dec. 27, State Trooper C.R. Francis was called to the scene just east of the Van Dorn Exit 173 on the I-495 westbound flyover ramp leading to I-95 south.
A tractor-trailer in the travel lane was stopped in traffic when it was rear-ended by a 2003 Ford Ranger pickup truck. Police said all three occupants of the pickup truck died at the scene. The driver of the tractor-trailer was not injured in the crash.
The driver of the pickup truck was Peter Stesney Jr, 87, of Allentown, Penn. The two passengers were Bernice Supinski, 85, of Bath, Penn., and Laura Kordelski, 51, of Allentown, Penn.
Geller said all three were related and traveling to Florida to attend a relative�s funeral.
The Virginia State Police Accident Reconstruction Team is assisting with the ongoing investigation.
The ramp was re-opened shortly after 3 a.m. Friday morning.


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This Knapsack from BAGGU will carry the heaviest of loads—from stacks of books to a bulky laptop—with ease and comfort. Plus, its roomy front pocket holds a plethora of cords and cables with its secure Velcro closure. It's perfect for the scholars among us who want quick and easy access to our high tech learning materials.
Top flap with buckle covers grommeted drawstring closure. Padded adjustable straps, and padded back panel for comfort. Padded inner pocket comfortably holds a 13" or 15" laptop. 100% heavyweight nylon.
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I realize they do two different things! I was just stating there is a gap; it would be nice to have box tubing roller that could roll a circle smaller than 12-inches without a segmented look. I dont see why you couldnt roll a piece of 1/8-inch round stock in a rig roller and tack it in the center of the upper roller of the tubing roller, and do the same thing as the AZ bender. As AZ had stated you have to force the wall of the box tube inside its self to achieve a smooth radius.
Results 21 to 30 of 73
Thread: Harbor Freight Tubing Roller
07-03-2009, 05:49 PM #21Senior Member
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07-07-2009, 01:49 PM #22Senior Member
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07-07-2009, 08:15 PM #23Senior Member
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That the Eastwood model sells for around four times as much and IMO some of Eastwoods stuff is also of marginal quality and probably made in China also,for a couple hundred bucks seems like the H.F. is worth it just for a try out. I am probably going to get one myself just to check it out. Not too much to lose but a couple hundred bucks if it doesnt work out .Mike
07-08-2009, 05:44 AM #24Senior Member
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crawdaddy -
I agree with you - Eastwood, Northern and others seem to carry a lot of the same tools as HF they just charge more !
I bought the HF bender for bending arches for arbors, trellises gate and fence tops etc.
I made these adjustable dies to roll square and rectangular tubing.
I wasn't concerned about the bearings in the two lower rollers but I may drill the axle and add a zirk fitting so smooth things out.
The bottom piece is 1/2" 16g, middle is 3/4" 16g and the top is 1" 14g.
The 1" 14g was tuff to bend I'm hoping 1" 16g will be easier.
Chuck, how do I talk you into making a second set of those dies?
07-10-2009, 03:54 AM #26Senior Member
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- Nov 2005
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- 130
I would be embarrassed to tell you how long it took me to make those dies.
I have a 12x36 HF lathe that I bought from a company that bought HF returns.
For someone with a CNC lathe it would be a piece of cake.
I have been watching this thread all the while thinking I would also like to give this a whirl.
Today I blasted down to Springfield and picked one up! $139 is simply unreal when you look this thing over.
I have been considering the Pro-Tools model for like $1100. And others that run $3000+.
I got it out of the box and checked it out...it is already assembled. I am not gonna say a whole lot because I have not used it but my first impression is the quality is unreal for the price. I bought the square die set along with it.
Picked up an air riveter and a few sanding belts as well.
I cannot help but feel this tool could be a must have for most people unless there is something fundamentally wrong that I am not yet aware of...I'll know soon enuff.
I seems to be much better than any of the "pipe" benders they have.
Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"
Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
Miller 30-A Spoolgun
Miller WC-115-A
Miller Spectrum 300
Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400
Bought one this week. Had a quick gate job to do. Roller worked outstanding! I tried to roll 3/4 square in the round rollers (even though I knew better) all it did was twist. I had to fab up a flat roller for the top position. Worked flawlessly.
07-12-2009, 04:28 AM #29Senior Member
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Beautiful gate cc51!
I have a roller with the box tube dies in transit, should be here this week. Im curious to see how long the flat spot is? Then wondering if I can weld the ends of the material together, and reinsert the material back in the roller to work the flat spot out to form a perfect circle? Not that I need a perfect circle for any foreseeable projects, just want the ability to make them.
Virtually every tube roller of that nature (that costs several times more) says right on their info that it will not do a circle.
I'm not saying they won't just passing on what they say.
As far as the flat spot goes you simply tug the tube outside of the machine and roll it past aways (farther than the flat spot x 2) and then cut it on both ends, re-align them, and weld them together.
Wait untill you read their directions!! They are horrible. They contradict themselves and are just plain FOS on the capability. Which causes people to try to do things that just plain out is not gonna happen.
This machine is for long radius bends...like 10 foot radius's...not 10 inches like they say in the "manual"
I am sitting with the "manual" in front of me and it says you can bend:
1" tube on a 5" radius
1 1/2" tube on a 7 1/2" radius
2" tube on a 10" radius
They lay this on you right after telling you that you cannot bend tube larger than 1 1/4"
They also tell you the rollers are 4" in diameter which is the smallest diameter you can make with this tool.
If this were possible everyone would sell their benders and run to Harbor Freight because this would be the end-all of all benders ever made were this capability possible. Literally a "pipe dream"
Now using it in the realm of realizing it is a low dollar version of this sort of machine it offers a good value for what you pay and in capable hands could turn out some decent work... altho not perfect or identical without MUCH practice.
Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"
Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
Miller 30-A Spoolgun
Miller WC-115-A
Miller Spectrum 300
Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400


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Arts Talk
Join the A&E team's discussion of the arts in the Capital Region
Posts filtered on Tag
Cool things to do in the week ahead
Classical music In August, Boston Pops conductor Keith Lockhart landed himself a pretty sweet second job — as principal conductor for the BBC Concert Orchestra. Lockhart has said he's excited to be working with the British orchestra, which embarked on its first tour of the U.S. this fall. The 56-member orchestra, which provides the music […] [Read More]


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|News » Archives
Three East Tennessee State Football Players Named All-Conference
Tuesday, November 27, 2001Johnson City, Tenn. (Nov. 27, 2001) - Three players on East Tennessee State's football team were named to the All-Southern Conference team as selected by the league's nine head coaches the conference announced today. Junior wide receiver Cecil Moore (Morristown, Tenn.) leads the group as a first team selection. Senior tight end Nick Hendrickson (Greenville, Tenn.) and sophomore defensive lineman Brandon Calton (Pennington Gap, Va.) were both second team selections. Moore, a second team selection a year ago, led Southern Conference receivers with 57 receptions for 908 yards and five touchdowns. His yardage total was the best of his career. Already one of ETSU's all-time leading receivers, Moore has totaled 117 catches for 1,806 yards and 12 touchdowns. His reception totals are fifth in the ETSU record books, while his yardage total stands at fourth. Hendrickson started all 11 games for the Bucs at tight end this season and played a significant role on the Bucs' offensive line. He finished third on the team in receptions and reception yardage, hauling in 14 passes for 150 yards and one touchdown. Calton has become a fixture on the ETSU defensive front in his first two years, playing in every game since he has been at ETSU. He topped the Bucs' linemen this season in tackles, finishing with a total of 46. He finished among the squad's leaders in tackles for loss with six, and in sacks with four.


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Rosh Hashanah Recipes
|Peach Fritters
1 large egg
In a mixing bowl, beat the egg with a whisk and stir in the creamer. In a separate bowl, combine all the dry ingredients. Stir the wet ingredients into the dry ingredients and mix out any lumps. In a small saucepot, add half an inch of vegetable oil and heat to 375 degrees. Remove the core from the peaches (skin can be left on or removed) and cut each peach into six or eight even pieces, depending on the size of the peach. Dredge the peaches in the 1⁄4 cup dredging flour and dip the peach wedges into the batter until they are evenly coated. Fry until golden brown, approximately one to two minutes. When golden brown, remove and place on a clean towel to remove any excess grease. Garnish with a pinch of sugar.
Chef's Tip: For a dessert or a special holiday treat, dip in chocolate.
Recipe: kosher, parve


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Gallery: Obamas Expanding the White House Organic Garden in 2010
Encouraged by their gardening success of this last year, the Obamas and their staff are expanding their organic edible garden by 500 square feet in 2010. This new addition will raise the total growing space to 1,600 square feet. A winter harvest took place earlier in March, and the staff was awarded with a bounty of winter vegetables and proved that year round gardening is possible, even with the large amounts of snow the DC area received.
ead White House chef Sam Kass and his garden crew covered their winter crop with hoop houses to keep away the snow and provide a mini greenhouse effect. Hoop houses are typically made of PVC pipe (any better solutions?) curved in a semi-circle, stuck into the ground and covered in a semi-transparent plastic. On the March 10th harvest, the staff had a beautiful spread of a number of lettuces, spinach, turnips, arugula, carrots. Leeks, garlic and peas are now planted, but will be harvested later in the spring.
Kass said in a video about the harvest, "It's more humble than a summer harvest, but we did pretty great. Nobody had any expectation that we'd be able to grow any food during January and February." In total, the harvest produced 50 pounds of edibles despite the "snowmageddon" of 2010.
At the request of the First Lady, 500 sq feet more of the White House lawn will be dug up for more garden space. Last year, the staff grew 55 different types of vegetables, which were grown from organic seed. The First Lady began the edible garden in hopes of educating children about locally grown food and inspiring them to eat healthier, and hopefully this message has also been passed onto the rest of America. Of course, not all of us have a personal chef and gardening crew at our disposal, but it is wonderful to see the White House lawn put to good use.
Via Earth 911.com
4 Comments
November 16, 2010 at 4:18 pm
[…] amazing diving and snorkeling in a marine reserve. Traditional Fijian architecture coupled with an organic garden, a plan to restore the surrounding eco system, and a community foundation that gives back to the […]
May 29, 2010 at 3:07 am
Beautiful, just beautiful!! Put tears in my eyes.
Thank you for telling us about the White House Organic Garden! Please keep us informed.
April 20, 2010 at 2:56 am
Its nice to know that the President and the First Lady have programs for the environment like organic gardening. This is very beneficial not only to the owner of the garden but also to our Mother nature as well. I'm Clint Sidney, I am a gardening enthusiast, I love giving information about Organic Garden.


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Gallery: A Super Futuristic Net Zero High Speed Rail Station for Stuttg...
Stuttgart, an important city in the European network, was hampered by its end of the rail line station, which only had one way in and out. The new station turns the tracks perpendicular to the old, so trains can pass through instead of having to back out, which is critical in order for high speed rail to work efficiently. The station is currently under development and is expected to be completed by 2016.
The old station also took up some incredibly important real estate in the city center and cluttered it with train tracks, but the new station will push the tracks 12 meters below the surface and open up the space for a 42,000 sq meter public park. The new urban park will also extend into the adjacent "Schlossgarten" or castle gardens, which act as the city's lungs to provide the leisure and fresh air.
On the roof large, circular "light eyes" will serve as skylights down into the station below and operable windows in conjunction with ventilation tubes will eliminate the need for mechanical ventilation. The use of natural daylighting and ventilation minimizes energy needs for the station and additional lighting will be energy efficient and be provided for via a photovoltaic system on the existing northern station building. Concrete is used to construct the underground station and is painted in light colors in order to reflect natural light during the day.
Just to reiterate, this whole project was designed in 1997, long before some of us were even thinking about sustainable architecture, so the concept of light wells and ventilation tubes was really quite innovative. Main Station Stuttgart is part of a large rail redevelopment project, called Stuttgart 21, which includes restructuring the rail node in Stuttgart and constructing a high speed rail line Wendlingen and Ulm and linking it with other major European HSR nodes. This project also received a Gold Global Holcim Award in 2006.
9 Comments
December 27, 2010 at 4:47 pm
If you liked this project you should check out the other past winners of the Holcim Awards for Sustainable Construction. http://on.fb.me/holcim-awards
This project won an award in 2006. The 2011 competition is now open to submissions. If you have a sustainable project enter it today! http://bit.ly/a7rwWV
September 30, 2010 at 2:40 pm
[…] art tower is located at the corner of Hayden Avenue and National Boulevard with the Expo light rail line literally at the foot of the structure across the street and within easy walking distance of two of […]
September 6, 2010 at 12:05 pm
An interesting topic and an interesting debate. I must though answer some of the anti-project comments above;
– With the new through station trains will naturally halve their stop time. This is completely normal and has nothing to do with trains behind queuing up. At Dusseldorf Hbf through trains call for 2 minutes, this is half of the time for trains calling at Stuttgart Hbf.
– With this efficiency gain you need fewer platforms as half of the platforms aren't taken up with trains waiting to go back out on the next service to Heilbronn or Karlsruhe.
– The whole idea of changing to a connecting service will no longer be necessary for many people, the train will pass through on to more destinations. Again this also explains the need for fewer platforms.
– Connecting to your next service will be much easier, not, as is suggested above, more difficult. This is because a through station will have underpasses or bridges, such as at Köln Hbf or Frankfurt Flughafen Bf. This means you won't have to walk all the way down to the front of your train, walk along the end of the station and then back up to your next service, a saving of 5 minutes for some people.
– One of the points that is almost always ignored by anti-S21 protestors is the access time of trains to Stuttgart Hbf. Trains entering Stuttgart Hbf do so at a very slow speed. Trains slow down noticeably many kilometres outside Stuttgart wasting more journey time, and then crawl back out. This time, added to the needless reversing, means that a high speed train could have travelled over 25km.
– Protestors also forget about people travelling from Sindelfingen, Calw, Rottweil etc. These travellers from the South of the city have to travel through the "Nordbahnhof" before arriving at Stuttgart Hbf, adding yet more time to their journey. How is that efficient?
– A terminal station only works well when it is either at a border, a coastal town or, as in London and Paris, part of a "ring" of terminal stations which serve each geographic direction. Similar problems exist at Frankfurt. A terminal station works well only for the direction in which the tracks point.
– Munich is also a terminal station but many of Munich's S-Bahn trains use the through underground station, relieving the congestion on the surface main station.
– Travelling by Ryanair is not always as cheap, nor does it deliver you to a location near to the one you wish to travel to. Getting to/from the Ryanair airport can add hours and many €'s to the cost. Just ask those Ryanair passengers who fly to "Frankfurt Hahn"! There are many High Speed rail projects being built all over Europe. Travel from city-to-city by rail for journeys up to 4 (maybe 6) hours is nearly always preferred to flying because the train needs no check in and the stations are more central. Beware the hidden cost of Lo-cost!
– The argument about the ICE station at the airport is disingenuous. If you live in Stuttgart you won't start your journey to the airport at the main railway station, most likely you will use the S-bahn or bus from your local stop. The idea of having a High Speed station close to the airport is so that the airport can serve the region of Baden Wurttemberg more effectively. The planners are not expecting people to take the ICE from Stuttgart to Stuttgart Airport because they know travellers don't take the ICE from Frankfurt to Frankfurt Airport or the TGV from Paris to CDG. They are planning on you taking the ICE from Ulm or Mannheim and other regional cities.
– These days nearly every mode of transport, including lo-cost airlines build in extra time into their schedules to prevent having to report to travellers that their trains are late and to maintain efficiency. Such is the extent of congestion in the Stuttgart Hbf area DB have added extra minutes to the journey time to prevent trains from being late. With this congestion eased by the building of the new station DB will be able to more accurately gauge the schedules. This "padding" of the schedules helps Stuttgart Hbf appear more efficient, however if the services were run to the same regulations as Dusseldorf Hbf, then Stuttgart Hbf would invariably suffer latenesses.
– The separation of Freight trains and High Speed passenger trains is common sense. Freight trains, just like heavy lorries on the road are always slower on steep hills. With these two types of train separated the result is better for all, as capacity, efficiency and speed is improved all round.
– Creating new land where the current station is will invariably be in high demand which will mean the price of office space or new housing in that area will be expensive. This is capitalist economics I'm afraid, not the fault of S21 project planners. Someone said recently "Only 5% of people who live in Stuttgart will be able to afford those new houses". A response was "Only 5% of Germans can afford to live in Stuttgart!" I tend to agree.
The main point on which I do agree with the protestors is the cost. This has to be reigned in and monitored. But as another poster commented, the whole project was passed democratically. Most of the recent protests have been the result of the media looking to stir something up for selling papers. If the costs do go up the electorate need to hold the politicians accountable, but protesting to the point where costs escalate to the delays the protests cause is self defeating and a self forfilling prophecy.
The costs maybe expensive, but the project's objectives are sound.
September 3, 2010 at 7:46 pm
S21 was passed with democratic legitimisation some 10 years ago and there were no significant protests back then. More importantly there was no serious effort back then to block the project with democratic means – which was possible.
Half of the people demonstrating now are either those self-declared socialists who can not miss any chance to show their discontent of any kind of authority. The other half are probably those who have good reasons to be against S21 – but that they have evolved from minority to majority in recent years is a media coup.
August 29, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Here are some reasons, why the project of Stuttgart21 is making people mad and protesting against it.
– stuttgarts mainstation now is the second most punctual in germany with 16 tracks. In the future with 8 tracks and only 4 departure-platforms it is going to be crowded and trains will have to reduce their stoptime at the station to let other trains roll in. With only 8 tracks it is more difficult to catch connection-trains timewise. Experts say that the future-station seems more likely to be a chokepoint, not an improvement of schedules.
– In South-Germany, Stuttgart is a end-destination, many ppl deboard here, therefore Stuttgart does not have to have a through-station. A terminal-station like it is now is just fine and works for Munich as well.
– there are certainly lots of risks to dig a tunnel. stuttgarts
rock-formation is tricky, of course its still possible to build tunnels, but it will always take more time and more costs.
– in a tunnel the place is limited, how will they be able to expand in the future?
– Deutsche Bahn (German Railroad Company) is calculating with a 7 Billions Budged for S21, but is rising the costs quarterly. In fact there have been many other projects of the \"Deutsche Bahn\"
where they were not calculating correctly timewise and monetary.
The German Federal Court of Auditors has published their forecasts for S21 to the expenses of 9 Billion Euros, which is more realistic. I assume it will increase quarter or double at the end after looking at other Railroad-Projects in Germany like Berlin, Leipzig, Frankfurt, Cologne.
– If the trainstation is supposed to be a great thing for our
grandchildren, how can we give them debts and compound interests at such an high amount of money?
– yes germany is wasting money and taxes everywhere at any time, but this can not be an argument for more waste of money.
– the costs of S21 will cannibalize other important projects for the region.
– the plans for S21 were made more than 10 years ago. Nowadays traveling with no-frills-airlines like RyanAir/Germanwings
became daily, cheaper and faster than traveling by train. people from paris will certainly take a plane to munich or vienna, not a train.
– for more than 10 years there were always protests, they just have been completely ignored by politicians, which is why ppl are so mad now. For example in 2007 68.000 signatures where submitted against S21, the IG-Metall published their opinion against S21, 40.000 ppl subscribed for a referendum on http://stuttgarterappell.de/?p=9
– yes the mainstation is not so nice now and i dont have anything
against modernization, but after years espeacially underground-stations become ugly and stinky.
– stuttgart will not become \"the new cool\", just because there is an underground-railstation, thats illusionary. Its people and events who create a city image.
– the new area, if the tunnelstation is built, shall have more park and new appartments. I strongly assume, that the appartmentprices will only be affordable to
very rich people or companies like banks and insurances. the landprice will be high so they need to build close and space-saving, which is not attractive as well.
– the ICE will take 8 mins from the mainstation to the
stuttgart-airport. But the new ICE-Station at the airport will be not as close at the S-Bahn-Station. so ppl have to walk longer with their luggage to the airport-terminals. there
are only 2 ICEs per hour, S-Bahns go more frequently to the airport, and the price for the 8 mins-ICE-ride will be like 15,- Euros, instead 2,- Euros for S-Bahn.
– the new track-route from Stuttgart to Ulm is supposed to be 26 mins faster, but years ago, when the tracks have been in better conditions, it was about the same time faster. so why not just fix the old tracks?
– fright-trains will not be able to use the new Stuttgart-Ulm-tracks because they are too heavy for the cliffy track-route. how can that be efficient, if this is an
important route to transport goods by train?
– those who are in charge of S21 are the ones who will have the benefits. i have seen a list of people who are in politics and
also on the management board of companies that execute the S21-order.
I could state more arguments, but to sum it up, S21 to me seems to be a loss of realistic reasons for a prestigial cause. A modernization is the best way for now and the future.
August 29, 2010 at 12:34 pm
This was a futuristic project 15 years ago stop today it´s just a pain in the ass stop if ever built it will just be for prestige reasons stop very one-dimensional report unfortunately
Greetings from Stuttgart btw
August 27, 2010 at 6:26 pm
[…] university building is consists of a series of vaulted concrete arches, some of which feature openings that capture sunlight and wind using a specialized cap. These […]
August 27, 2010 at 10:12 am
I want to second Enemy's comment. Right at this very moment people are demonstrating against this stupid project. http://webcam.schrem.eu/
August 27, 2010 at 5:13 am
Maybe it would be a good idea to mention the protests against this insanely expensive project.
Greetings from Baden-Württemberg.


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5 Festival Commandments
Five Music Festival Commandments
Maybe you've been planning to attend a music festival for months. You convinced your friends it was something you couldn't pass up. You saved up for tickets, waited for the lineup announcement, scrolled through photos of years before. Maybe you even travelled a long way to be there. No matter how many minute details you planned in advance to tailor your music festival experience to your liking, there are certain things that apply to every festival-goer across the globe.
Pop-lovers, ravers, hip-hop heads, indie-buffs and country music devotees alike: these are your five music festival commandments. Obey them, and the music festival powers that be will grant you limitless fun and memories for a lifetime.
1. Thou Shall Dance
Maybe you're not the most coordinated person on the planet. Maybe you opted for science camp as a kid instead of spending hours each week at dance class. Whatever your reason for feeling self conscious about your moves--let them go. The people surrounding you at a festival are your people; they accept you and whatever inventive dance breaks you can come up with. The sooner you let loose and shake those hips, the sooner you'll realize that expertise at a music festival is for the people on stage. You're just there to soak up the sounds.
2. Thou Shall Pick A Meeting Place
Just like in the animal kingdom, unexpected events can cause a member of the pack to get separated. This can prove to be a very stressful situation in the case that cell phone service is unreliable or you, smartly, left your expensive electronics at home. The first thing to do when you get to the festival grounds is choose an easily identifiable spot that can serve as a meeting place in case anyone gets lost.
Tip: Don't choose a small pile of rocks or a food truck on wheels. It should be a stationary landmark that you know will be there no matter what. That way you can convene easily and celebrate by hitting the next act as a group--just like you planned.
3. Thou Shall Hydrate
A music festival is a marathon, not a sprint. Drink liquids early, and drink them often. It's much easier to pack in the hydration in advance, because once your body starts to get tired, your lips start to get dry, and your head starts to ache you're going to be backpedalling to refresh instead of powering full speed ahead to watch Kanye perform new songs off Yeezus that only you and the other people at the festival get to hear. Wouldn't want to miss that for some easily avoidable dehydration, would you?
4. Thou Shall Go with the Flow
Some things are out of your control. Musicians have to cancel appearances at the last minute, your clumbsy friend trips and needs an escort to the infirmary, or--worst of all--it rains. Don't get twisted into a frenzy about things that you can't change. Just accept them for part of the crazy whirlwind that is a music festival and laugh about it. Dancing in the rain with thousands of people to your favorite songs might actually end up being the best part of the entire experience.
5. Thou Shalt Not Spend the Entire Time on Your Phone
Sure, it's acceptable to snap a couple photos to remind yourself (and all your Instagram followers) that you were there. However it is not acceptable to watch the opening acts, headliners, crowd reactions and bathroom lines through the tiny screen on your phone. This is about living in the now! Open your eyes and stare straight ahead--we promise, the view is a thousand times better.