text:
As a child in the 1960s I watched a quirky television program called "Hogan's Heroes." I watched with my dad a few times, and I remember how uncomfortable he was at first with a comedy that included uniforms adorned with swastikas.
I understood his unease because for a few years of his childhood in Europe, he lived under Nazi occupation. But after watching an episode or two, he picked up on the parody and the sarcasm. He loved how the Nazis were portrayed as buffoons, and he began to enjoy the program. He had his "I get it" moment.
I am writing this letter to respond to a May 7 letter to the editor in The News-Sentinel that was critical of the selection and recent performance of Mel Brooks' "The Producers" by the faculty and students of Northrop High School. The director, Tim Miller, went to great lengths to make it clear to the audience that the story is a parody written by Brooks to help him deal with the loss of his grandparents in a Nazi concentration camp.
But the author of the letter nonetheless found the performance religiously offensive, sexually suggestive and generally immoral. (Is it fair to express shock that in a musical about show business might address issues of greed and debauchery?) Ultimately the letter writer conflates the performance of an "edgy" musical with nothing less than the ruination of the public school system. Although she praises the children and faculty for the quality of the performance, she uses the choice of this musical as an indictment of public schools in favor of funneling tax dollars to religious and charter schools. This is terribly unfair to Northrop and to FWCS, and harkens to book-banning efforts of the past.
Students attend high school during very influential years as they mature into adulthood. In this time their understanding of the human condition matures as well. Often that understanding is molded by great art and literature. During my high school years I was exposed to Orwell, Twain, Shakespeare, Bradbury, Harper Lee, Hawthorne and many others. I am so grateful that most of these were required reading in the public schools I attended. Those authors were never demure in their discussions of politics, religion, sex, crime, greed and the dark side of human nature. Some authors approach these topics very stoically; others hit us right in the funny bone — just like Brooks.
"The Producers" is a time-tested and great American comedy. It won a record-breaking 12 Tony Awards on Broadway. I am proud that the administration, faculty and students of Northrop worked together to choose the play, support the play, rehearse endless hours on the play, and deliver an exemplary work of theatrical and musical art.
Unfortunately the author of that letter to the editor left at intermission and was deprived of the genius of Brooks in his ability to wrap up a story. Perhaps waiting to see the third act may have helped her cross into "I get it" territory, and perhaps her opinion of the public schools would not be so negative. We will never know.
George Sistevaris, board certified civil trial advocate, National Board of Trial Advocacy, registered Indiana civil mediator


text:
Friday, December 08, 2006
A Question for December 7
Scott Horton
Today is December 7. This is a special day in our history, a definitional day, a day to pause and remember. On this day - "a day that will live in infamy" - the Empire of Japan attacked the United States armed forces gathered at Pearl Harbor. And on the other side of the world, December 7 was also a momentous day. The German drive on Moscow stalled - it happened at a place not far from the airport at Sheremetyevo that I drive past a couple of times each year, marked by a memorial composed of over-sized tank barriers. And in Berlin, faced with concern about the stalling effort and the approaching, life threatening Russian winter, Field Marshal Keitel issued the "Night and Fog Decree," one of the bloodiest and most disgusting documents of a war that challenged the conscience of the world. All of this occurred on a single day sixty-five years ago: December 7, 1941. For a generation of Americans, their lives changed, suddenly and dramatically. National security had been a lingering worry. Suddenly it became a matter that dominated and redirected their lives. Americans handled this challenge with a nobility and clarity of purpose that are worth thinking about today. I propose to do just that, for a simple reason: America needs to remember its history, its values and its legacy. In a world of 24/7 cable pseudo news channels, they have gone missing. And that loss cheapens the lives of every one of us.
As to the role of the media, I just finished "The Best of I.F. Stone" edited by Karl Weber and am now reading Myra MacPherson's bio of Stone: "All Governments Lie!" The media's "misrole" in times of war goes back to at least the Spanish American War. Apparently the press clause of the First Amendment fails to provide standards for free, truthful reporting. That's where the public comes in, to put the media's feet to the fire. The fourth estate has been in a celebrity bubble for too long. Izzy should be the standard.
It can never be unpatriotic to question one's own government.
Mr. Horton you're definitely good at writing speeches.
From wikipedia: "Efficient and enduring intimidation can only be achieved either by capital punishment or by measures by which the relatives of the criminals do not know the fate of the criminal...these measures will have a deterrent effect because - A. The prisoners will vanish without a trace. B. No information may be given as to their whereabouts or their fate."
I repeat my question to Bart, what part of the MCA prevents it from being exactly such a decree? You yourself have said the only reason to hold a commission for a detainee under MCA is to issue a death sentence. I am still waiting to hear from you which portion of the text of the MCA requires any of the due process rights subsumed by your naive statement, "My family can prove my citizenship." What in the text of the MCA prevents it from being used as just such a political tool? And, please, spare us comments about not knowing the difference between the amoral Nazis and the God-fearing GOP. Stick to the text in question. Which words in the text of MCA preclude it being our own Nacht und Nebel?
The famous FDR phrase about fear comes from his first (1933) inaugural, not his second.
Regarding our conduct during World War II: in 1945 we killed 200,000 Japanese city dwellers in just three air attacks. We bombed and shelled our way through Italy, even after it had surrendered and entered the war on our side, and joined the British in laying waste to dozens of German cities. US planes strafed Japanese soldiers clinging to life rafts in the Bismarck Sea in 1943, and Americans fighting in the Pacific often collected Japanese gold teeth as souvenirs. US soldiers shot 70-odd Italian prisoners during the invasion of Sicily ... I think my point is clear. I honor and respect the Americans who fought in World War II, but I also think we should also remember that all war is cruelty.
Scott Horton:
In his first inaugural, Franklin Delano Roosevelt told us that "the only thing we have to fear… is fear itself."...Those words sound simple to us today, and we need to remember the context in which they were uttered. As Roosevelt spoke, a shadow of totalitarianism had fallen across much of the world - fascism dominated the European continent and the rising Empire of Japan and communism covered the great Eurasian landmass that stretched in between them.
Excuse me, but Roosevelt gave that speech in 1933 and the subject was fear economic destitution.
Apart from the Soviet Union and to a much lesser extent Italy, most of Europe was free of totalitarianism. Hitler had just been appointed Chancellor in what was still a German democracy. Japan was 4 years away from its first military expansion into China.
This is why Roosevelt was explicit about fear as a tool, why Allied propaganda made clear that torture marked our adversaries, but not us. The Greatest Generation upheld our nation's ideals when it went to war. It understood the value of those ideals as weapons. It won the war. And then it did some real magic. By treating our adversaries as human beings, by showing them dignity and respect, our grandfathers' generation created a new world in the rubble of the Second World War.
I think you need to do some research on how we treated captured enemy during WWII.
Very often, we did not even attempt to capture Japanese or SS prisoners because those enemy soldiers did not take our troops prisoner or abused them when they did.
Enemy captured wearing civilian clothing or our uniforms as do the current al Qaeda were summarily executed.
Later in the War, up to 800,000 captured enemy soldiers who fell under the Geneva Conventions starved to death or died of exposure as food was intentionally withheld from them. Eisenhower justified this deprivation by arbitrarily changing the status of uniformed soldiers from POWs to to "Disarmed Enemy Combatant."
Now I'd like you to use your imagination for a second. Let's assume the unthinkable: that America had embraced Mr. Bush's "Program" in the Second World War; that German, Italian and Japanese fighters had been waterboarded, subjected to the cold cell and techniques like "long time standing."
It would have been a significant upgrade in treatment over summary executions and dying of starvation and exposure.
I ask this question because this issue - the use of "coercive intelligence gathering techniques" - should be a matter of grave concern to everyone of us. But it has taken time for the question to be asked and discussed. And for that, I have a bone to pick with our media. By mid-2002, evidence began to collect that highly coercive techniques were being used in Guantanamo and in Afghanistan. A few brave souls reported on this - Dana Priest and a couple of her colleagues at the Washington Post were among the first, and there were stories in a handful of other newspapers. I have spent some time talking with print media reporters and editors about this process. What I learned was not encouraging. There was strong pushback from the beginning. Editors did not want to run these stories. Many stories were spiked. And when they ran, they were cut back and appeared buried deep inside the paper. Why? Journalists were under immense pressure at this point, from the Pentagon, the Administration and from the rightwing chorus that dominates much of the cable news world. Threats were raised: papers that report such matters are slandering our troops, it was said. They are undermining our combat morale. They are weakening our war effort. But my recapitulation here hardly does justice to the ferocity of some of these attacks. In sum what happened? The press was intimidated into a process of self-censorship.
Are you kidding? Today's press is an open spigot on a fire hydrant compared to the past press.
In WWII, the press was censored. No word of all the dead enemy POWs was ever reported. Certainly, no press source would have considered publishing enemy complaints of abuse.
In comparison, our media today continuously ran Abu Ghraib for which it had evidence and dozens more stories of abuse for which it had nothing more than enemy allegations.
I would suggest that the rosy view of the "Good War" which you and others share, not to mention our ability to maintain civilian morale in that war, is due primarily to press censorship and US propaganda.
It is an amusing sport to pick one of Bart's citations and look behind it for a laugh. This week, I selected the one about DDE and the 800,000 German POWs he starved. If one were to actually READ the link (an article, apparently the first, by an HNN intern), and then one were to actually READ the studies linked to at the intern's article, one - if rational - would never EVER contend that there was any serious scholarship supporting the accusation that DDE starving 800,000 German POWs, at risk of being seen as a buffoon or, worse, morally and intellectually bankrupt. Take your pick.
I concur. Read where that "800,000" figure comes from before you believe Bart. Also note that that, even if the claim is taken at face value, this event took place after WWII. So it couldn't possibly support the argument that harsh measures are necessary to win wars.
Derek Schilling above totally eviscerates this post
I'm sure the hundreds of thousands if not millions of German and Japanese civilians that FDR's war machine slaughtered wholesale would have leapt at the chance to be water boarded for a few seconds or have to listen to the Red Hot Chili Peppers at 50 decibels in exchange for not having themselves and their families burned to death in a horrific firestorm of incendiary bombs.
I could be wrong, maybe they'd rather be killed and have their cities destroyed than suffer some sleep deprivation or some belly slaps.
It's amazing that liberals continue to hold up FDR and WW2 as the good war when our and our allies behavior in that war was much more brutal and inhumane than our behavior in this war.
In fact, if you look at history, the US was far more brutal in WW@, Korea and Vietnam than it ever was in Iraq.
Do the names Wurzburg, Dresden, Nuremberg, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Monte Cassino, Anzio, Salerno, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Tarawa, Enola Gay, Falaise Pocket etc... mean anything to anyone
The NYT and the liberals who today criticize Bush would have been calling FDR a war criminal, which by any objective standard he was. He just happened to be out war criminal and he won the war so he was never prosecuted. If the Germans and the Japanese won you can bet that Roosevelt would have been hung, if he hadn't died forst.
"Bart" DePalma says:
Enemy captured wearing civilian clothing or our uniforms as do the current al Qaeda were summarily executed.
"Bart" keeps repeating this assertion, but without a shred of supporting evidence. While there were prosecutions during WWII for summary executions, this was of the enemy, not U.S. soldiers. But "Bart" wants to pretend (for his own rhetorical purposes) that such summary executions were a matter of common practise and accepted policy. This is not true, and the fact that we prosecuted Germans for such is just one such indication.
On a more general note, I agree with those that point out that war is a horrendous situation with many abuses, tragedies, and some of the worst of what mankind has to offer. I'd note that this inevitable characteristic is what should make war truly a "last resort", rather than the CNN/"video-game" sanitary exercise that makes it a first option, and a principal element of the U.S. diplomatic armamentarium for those that are more than willing to go along with the CNN pretense.
"Bart", OTOH, embraces the sanguinity and inhumanity of war and the excuse to let our standards and our principles lapse. He exalts the lawlessness that the Nacht und Nebel cloaks and hides. He wants there to be a terrible global war with Commi-- ... Terra-- ... ummm, "Islamofascists" where the gloves can be taken off (this is present in his continued assertions that the AUMFs put us into a "state of war"). He thinks this is a "feature, not a bug". Oh, the humanity....
"Bart" DePalma is hard of reading:
Says "Bart": Later in the War, up to 800,000 captured enemy soldiers who fell under the Geneva Conventions starved to death or died of exposure as food was intentionally withheld from them. Eisenhower justified this deprivation by arbitrarily changing the status of uniformed soldiers from POWs to to "Disarmed Enemy Combatant."
"Bart" links here: http://hnn.us/articles/30624.html
But "Bart"'s own source says:
Concerning the second and third classifications of Nazi POWs, some are more skeptical of the treatment these POWs received. In 1989, a Canadian novelist by the name of Jacques Bacque wrote Other Losses, which contained accusations against General Eisenhower in this regard. Bacque argued that Eisenhower's misdeeds led to the starvation of "over 800,000, almost certainly over 800,000 and quite possibly a million" German POWs. Bacque claimed that Einsehower nefariously got around the Geneva Conventions by changing the status of the Germans prisoners from "Prisoner of War" to "Disarmed Enemy Combatant." Since, according to the Geneva Conventions, POWs are to be fed military rations while there are much more relaxed standards for feeding "Disarmed Enemy Combatants," Bacque alleged that Eisenhower himself was to blame, even citing one instance of Eisenhower turning away a train full of food from entering a Nazi camp.
Christof Strauss of the University of Heidelberg calls into question many of Bacque's accusations, as have others, as spelled out in this debate conducted by HNN in 2003. While Strauss decided that "conditions in these camps indeed did not meet the requirements of the Geneva Convention of 1929," he also maintains that "contrary to Bacque's assertion, the Americans did allow aid to be delivered to the inmates by representatives of the German churches." The International Red Cross was also permitted to see the prisoners. Strauss says that Bacque made the death toll appear much higher than it actually was.
Not quite the same, eh?
Not to mention that this is hardly evidence that such treatment -- even if as alleged -- was acceptable or legal policy.
Once again, I won't make a claim that WWII was in all respects "The Good War" (and the subsequent current Geneva Conventions represent in part some hindsight developed in the wake of WWII). But I'm just a bit curious as to "Bart"'s reception at the local VWF when he goes on his tirade about the abuses of WWII.... For "Bart" to run down the WWII veterans just to make plitical points for defending the maladministration's current policies is just creepy.
sarahweddington said:
I'm sure the hundreds of thousands if not millions of German and Japanese civilians that FDR's war machine slaughtered wholesale would have leapt at the chance to be water boarded for a few seconds or have to listen to the Red Hot Chili Peppers at 50 decibels in exchange for not having themselves and their families burned to death in a horrific firestorm of incendiary bombs.
False dichotomy. Or is it just a "red herring"? In any case, hardly honest argument.
Sarah continues:
It's amazing that liberals continue to hold up FDR and WW2 as the good war when our and our allies behavior in that war was much more brutal and inhumane than our behavior in this war.
Lack of documentation duly noted. But this in defence of the maladministration's policies -- even if true -- would be a bit of a tu quoque.
In fact, if you look at history, the US was far more brutal in WW@, Korea and Vietnam than it ever was in Iraq.
The question is under what circumstances the brutality is occuring. On a battlefield in the midst of combat, a hand grenade or a bayonet to the stomach is unarguably brutal. But in a detention cell half a world and years away from the fighting is an entirely different place. This is something that the courts have noted, but both "Bart" and Sarah seem to have missed.
Do the names Wurzburg, Dresden, Nuremberg, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Monte Cassino, Anzio, Salerno, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Tarawa, Enola Gay, Falaise Pocket etc... mean anything to anyone
Yes, and I have yet to see any of the neocons or Dubya supporters out demonstrating against the Enola Gay exhibit documentation in the Air and Space Museum. Nor praising Kurt Vonnegut for his book "Slaughterhous Five" (or his current thoughts).
I'd suggest, for those interested, the fine book by Freeman Dyson (truly an eclectic), "Disturbing the Universe", in part for his comments on his role in Bomber Command (he's a brilliant man in many respects, and the book has many other things worth reading as well).
But that avoids the point: Yes, war is bloody (and that's one of the reasons why we ought not invade other countries willy-nilly to give people a "Feels good!" moment and to prop up sagging polls at home (particularly when such invasion is unwarranted and unlikely to come to any good). But that combat itself is sanguinary doesn't affect whether we ought to mistreat prisoners.
To the Michaels:
I posted "up to 800,000," which includes lesser figures. The fact is that Eisenhower's reclassification of prisoners and the cuts in their rations are all confirmed. The exact numbers of deaths are not known because we did not keep records.
However, to be extremely conservative, let us reduce the 800,000 figure by 99% and you arrive at a figure of 8,000 who died from intentionally denied lack of available food and medical care.
In point of comparison, how many enemy prisoners in Iraq or Afghnaistan do you allege were killed on the orders of General Casey or anyone else high in the chain of command? I am unaware of a single case.
For those who question my post concerning execution of unlawful combatants who were not dressed in uniforms, I would commend Special Forces' Wear of Non-Standard Uniforms by W. Hays Parks.
Page 555 in the appendix notes that the SS dressed in US uniforms during Operation Greif of the Ardennes Offensive were executed.
Here are some anecdotal posts of how we treated those SS unlawful combatants:
In your otherwise compelling account you mention the reluctance of media to publish stories about the inhuman coercive techniques used against prisoners held by the US. They have been under tremendous pressure by the US administration. May be. Yet, I wonder how the administration is able to "pressurize" powerful corporate media, which are financially independent of government subsidies. Moreover, the media have not only been reluctant to publicize stories on "coercive techniques. They have vehemently refused to reveal the numerous anomalies in the official account on the events of 9/11. One of these glaring anomalies is the lack of evidence that any of the 19 named hijackers actually boarded any of the aircraft which they allegedly hijacked. Nor have the media highlighted the fact that the FBI has admitted to possess no "hard evidence" about links between Osama bin Laden and the mass murder of 9/11. Nor have the media published the fact that over 100 firefighters have reported to have experienced, heard or seen explosions in the World Trade towers prior to their collapse. This failure to inform the public about facts related to mass murder on US soil is even more frightening than what you have been covering.
Actually, I had a relative in WWII in the German army who was captured by Soviet troops dressed up as US Soldiers. Hilter had already died which his unit knew. They continued fighting in the eastern theater believing that US troops would come to help them fight the Russians. They choose to ally themselves with what they saw as a prefered situation, because they believed that Americans followed their own rules with respect to how they treated POWs (his own description). They would have easily died to the last man fighting the russians, since in their perception they had nothing to lose against them. How the US really treated its POWs didn't matter - what mattered was what people believed about the US. This is precisely what we lose by claiming to be some kind of leader with respect to morality and then turn around and torture people.
Its an about face that weakens our ability to fight terrorism, as such a fight calls for a much higher need for international cooperation than directly fighting a nation state on the ground. To actually make headway in defeating terrorism, we can hardly afford to simply dismiss what other nations and cultures think of us. Without their genuine support, the US will find it extremely difficult if not impossible to track down and deal with terrorists.
If, on the other hand, if what we really want is a war we'll never win, we're doing exactly what we need to in order to achieve that end.
"German, Italian and Japanese fighters had been waterboarded, subjected to the cold cell and techniques like "long time standing." Do any of you think for even a second that these nations would have been our allies and friends in the following generations?"
Such hysterics. We did much, much worse than this.
Edgar L. Jones writes in the Atlantic Monthly in 1946
"What kind of war do civilians think we fought anyway? We shot prisoners in cold blood, wiped out hospitals, strafed lifeboats, killed
or mistreated enemy civilians, finished off the enemy wounded, tossed the dying in a hole with the dead, and in the Pacific boiled the flesh off enemy skulls to make table ornaments for sweethearts, or carved
their bones into letter openers."
Then we dropped two atom bombs.
War is awful business, and has a morality all its own.
"Bart" DePalma says:
Page 555 in the appendix notes that the SS dressed in US uniforms during Operation Greif of the Ardennes Offensive were executed.
This, even if true, doesn't make "summary execution" officially sanctioned policy.
As the item that "Bart" references says, concerning "disposition":
"Members captured in US uniforms executed; mission commander Skorzeny and ten others aquitted in war crimes trial."
If summary execution is the official penalty for fighting "out of uniform" (as "Bart" falsely contends), this result could hardly pertain.
I'd note that this "Table of Historical State Practice" which "Bart" references lists dozens of incidents of such "unlawful combatant" actions ... and, with the exception of two cases of Nazi executions and one Japanese one (hardly a laudable standard for our behaviour), there is just this one incident of such summary executions. How such a review can support "Bart"'s claim that "summary execution" is SOP is far beyond me; in fact, I think that rational minds would say that this paper refutes "Bart" forcefully.
Another day, another lie by "Bart"....
So the argument from some around here seems to be:
1) The US has engaged in torture and inhuman brutality in the past, so this somehow justifies this sort of conduct now. (We'll ignore the factual inaccuracies and outright falsehoods put forth here, since these people are immune to facts).
2) The US won WWII because of its "press censorship and propaganda."
3) The only reason we are losing in Iraq (sorry, I mean 'eternally around the corner from winning,' of course), is that we aren't brutally firebombing or brutally torturing enough of the civilians we are "bringing democracy to." If we would only use more "brutal" methods (whatever that means), then the "terrorists" would fear us and do whatever we say.
4) In sum, the US needs to become more like its fascist and communist enemies of the past, because those guys knew how to be brutal, how to shut the press up, keep everyone in line, and lose wars.
You people are beyond parody.
Long live Porter29 not failing for the trap set by our neo-con friends in this thread: we're harsh now, but we did it too in WWII.
Who bloody cares?
porter & anne:
The entire point of this thread was a set of remarks giving a factually incorrect comparison between WWI and today's war against Islamic fascism with the purpose discrediting today's treatment of unlawful enemy combatants as more brutal than what we did in WWII.
No one is justifying today's practices based on the fact that those in WWII were actually far more brutal. Today's practices either stand or fall on their own merits or faults. You are changing the subject because the false comparison which you endorsed fell of its own weight.
A few points:
1) I didn't endorse anything.
2) Torture was US policy during WWII? (Now he'll say, "We do not torture.")
3) I always find it amusing that the same people who so vehemently deny that the US uses torture are the same people who are always seeking to justify the use of torture (e.g., "the US treated prisoners more brutally in the past (so stop complaining -- that's war.)" "you have no civil rights if you are dead," "torture works," "techniques defined as torture since the Middle Ages are now just 'fraternity pranks'," etc.)
4) >>No one is justifying today's practices based on the fact that those in WWII were actually far more brutal.
Oh, really? That is exactly what you are attempting. If not, what is your point?
5) I think you meant that your claims were factually de-pantsed, which is why you are eternally changing the subject.
I believe 18 of Skorzeny's SS men were executed during the Ardennes offensive for wearing American uniforms. They were tried very quickly, and (as I recall) executed after their sentences were confirmed by the First Army commander. In at least one case, three SS men were shot six days after being captured. So while their executions may not have been summary, they did not receive full due process by contemporary standards.
After the war Skorzeny was tried for having ordered his men to use American uniforms in 1944, but was acquitted after he produced a witness who testified that British special forces had worn Axis uniforms for deception purposes on at least one occasion.
Regarding German POWs in American custody in 1945, I recall reading that the US provost marshal reported about 16,000 deaths out of about 5 million men. Bacque's claim of 800,000 to 1 million deaths is sensationalist nonsense, as false as the oft-repeated death toll of 135,000 in the Dresden bombing.
Remembering Godwin's Law, it probably is best not to start with a post that compares WWII and anything else: the discussion (starting with the original post, in my view) doesn't seem very productive. As with Hitler invocations, these comparisons only harden people's views. Of course, I realize that Mr. Horton probably spend most of his time with people who agree with each other on political matters so thoroughly that the only rhetorical interest in their lives is seeking clever ways to harden each other's views.
Sean: Remembering Godwin's Law...
Some comparisons are apt. Mr. Horton has a knack for such. The greatest danger our nation faces is not so-called "Islamo fascism," but rather the home grown version, where folks like Yoo do what von Moltke wouldn't, where legislation like MCA give us our own potential Nacht and Nebel, coupled with the unforgivably naive belief that "it can't happen here." I can happen here, it is happening here, by dribbles and drabs, and folks like Scott and the rest of the Balkinization hosts are trying to prevent it. Wishful thinking and a fear of learning from where others have gone wrong isn't going to do the trick.
But Robert Link, if Scott Horton is so rhetorically brilliant, how come he doesn't seem to persuade anyone who isn't already a flaming lefty? That's the problem with this site: it's like a City College lunchroom in the 30's, where Trotskyists at one table and Stalinists at another engage in utterly fanciful debates about "true socialism" and inspire each other to ever greater dedication to their respective ideals. Meanwhile the regular students bemusedly collect their diplomas and go live in the real world.
Uh, Sean, did you actually have an argument to make? Or do you just drop by to cast asparagus? (Caveat: That's only gonna make sense if you haven't had your sense of humor removed.)
And who said anything about socialism? We're talking about a prevention of totalitarianism here in American soil. Torture apologists like Yoo and draconian (look it up) legislation like the MCA are unarguable moves towards totalitarianism. Try to keep on the topic.
After the time lost with Bart, only to conclude in his own words that it's all black-and-white to him, I must say, it's looking like about time for the killfile for you. You know how to reach me if you really want.
Kudos and thank you to all the Balkinization hosts who are trying to think carefully, evocatively, ethicly and better about how we should treat each other! This is not sophistry - this is our responsibility as human beings.
What happened during WW2
is horrible I hope it never happens again!
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Cara Mengobati Jengger Ayam Pada Wanita
Cara Mengobati Jengger Ayam Wanita
Gambar Penyakit Jengger Ayam Wanita
Gambar Obat Tradisional Jengger Ayam
Nama Obat Jengger Ayam
Obat Jengger Ayam Yang Murah di Apotek
Apakah Jengger Ayam Bisa Sembuh
Obat Manjur Untuk Jengger Ayam
Cara Ampuh Menghilangkan Jengger Ayam
Obat Jengger Ayam Herbal
Obat Jengger Ayam Alami
Obat Jengger Ayam Tradisional
Obat Jengger Ayam Alternatif
Obat Jengger Ayam di Apotek
Obat Jengger Ayam Untuk Wanita
Obat Jengger Ayam Untuk Pria
Obat Jengger Ayam Ibu Hamil
Obat Jengger Ayam Ibu Menyusui
Obat Jengger Ayam Tanpa Efek Samping
Books by Balkinization Bloggers
Stephen M. Griffin, Broken Trust: Dysfunctional Government and Constitutional Reform (University Press of Kansas, 2015)
Frank Pasquale, The Black Box Society: The Secret Algorithms That Control Money and Information (Harvard University Press, 2015)
Bruce Ackerman, We the People, Volume 3: The Civil Rights Revolution (Harvard University Press, 2014)
Balkinization Symposium on We the People, Volume 3: The Civil Rights Revolution
Joseph Fishkin, Bottlenecks: A New Theory of Equal Opportunity (Oxford University Press, 2014)
Mark A. Graber, A New Introduction to American Constitutionalism (Oxford University Press, 2013)
John Mikhail, Elements of Moral Cognition: Rawls' Linguistic Analogy and the Cognitive Science of Moral and Legal Judgment (Cambridge University Press, 2013)
Gerard N. Magliocca, American Founding Son: John Bingham and the Invention of the Fourteenth Amendment (New York University Press, 2013)
Stephen M. Griffin, Long Wars and the Constitution (Harvard University Press, 2013)
Andrew Koppelman, The Tough Luck Constitution and the Assault on Health Care Reform (Oxford University Press, 2013)
James E. Fleming and Linda C. McClain, Ordered Liberty: Rights, Responsibilities, and Virtues (Harvard University Press, 2013)
Balkinization Symposium on Ordered Liberty: Rights, Responsibilities, and Virtues
Andrew Koppelman, Defending American Religious Neutrality (Harvard University Press, 2013)
Brian Z. Tamanaha, Failing Law Schools (University of Chicago Press, 2012)
Sanford Levinson, Framed: America's 51 Constitutions and the Crisis of Governance (Oxford University Press, 2012)
Linda C. McClain and Joanna L. Grossman, Gender Equality: Dimensions of Women's Equal Citizenship (Cambridge University Press, 2012)
Mary Dudziak, War Time: An Idea, Its History, Its Consequences (Oxford University Press, 2012)
Jack M. Balkin, Living Originalism (Harvard University Press, 2011)
Jason Mazzone, Copyfraud and Other Abuses of Intellectual Property Law (Stanford University Press, 2011)
Richard W. Garnett and Andrew Koppelman, First Amendment Stories, (Foundation Press 2011)
Jack M. Balkin, Constitutional Redemption: Political Faith in an Unjust World (Harvard University Press, 2011)
Gerard Magliocca, The Tragedy of William Jennings Bryan: Constitutional Law and the Politics of Backlash (Yale University Press, 2011)
Bernard Harcourt, The Illusion of Free Markets: Punishment and the Myth of Natural Order (Harvard University Press, 2010)
Bruce Ackerman, The Decline and Fall of the American Republic (Harvard University Press, 2010)
Balkinization Symposium on The Decline and Fall of the American Republic
Ian Ayres. Carrots and Sticks: Unlock the Power of Incentives to Get Things Done (Bantam Books, 2010)
Mark Tushnet, Why the Constitution Matters (Yale University Press 2010)
Ian Ayres and Barry Nalebuff: Lifecycle Investing: A New, Safe, and Audacious Way to Improve the Performance of Your Retirement Portfolio (Basic Books, 2010)
Jack M. Balkin, The Laws of Change: I Ching and the Philosophy of Life (2d Edition, Sybil Creek Press 2009)
Brian Z. Tamanaha, Beyond the Formalist-Realist Divide: The Role of Politics in Judging (Princeton University Press 2009)
Andrew Koppelman and Tobias Barrington Wolff, A Right to Discriminate?: How the Case of Boy Scouts of America v. James Dale Warped the Law of Free Association (Yale University Press 2009)
Jack M. Balkin and Reva B. Siegel, The Constitution in 2020 (Oxford University Press 2009)
Heather K. Gerken, The Democracy Index: Why Our Election System Is Failing and How to Fix It (Princeton University Press 2009)
Mary Dudziak, Exporting American Dreams: Thurgood Marshall's African Journey (Oxford University Press 2008)
David Luban, Legal Ethics and Human Dignity (Cambridge Univ. Press 2007)
Ian Ayres, Super Crunchers: Why Thinking-By-Numbers is the New Way to be Smart (Bantam 2007)
Jack M. Balkin, James Grimmelmann, Eddan Katz, Nimrod Kozlovski, Shlomit Wagman and Tal Zarsky, eds., Cybercrime: Digital Cops in a Networked Environment (N.Y.U. Press 2007)
Jack M. Balkin and Beth Simone Noveck, The State of Play: Law, Games, and Virtual Worlds (N.Y.U. Press 2006)
Andrew Koppelman, Same Sex, Different States: When Same-Sex Marriages Cross State Lines (Yale University Press 2006)
Brian Tamanaha, Law as a Means to an End (Cambridge University Press 2006)
Sanford Levinson, Our Undemocratic Constitution (Oxford University Press 2006)
Mark Graber, Dred Scott and the Problem of Constitutional Evil (Cambridge University Press 2006)
Jack M. Balkin, ed., What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said (N.Y.U. Press 2005)
Sanford Levinson, ed., Torture: A Collection (Oxford University Press 2004)
Balkin.com homepage
Cultural Software
The Information Society Project
Useful Links
Syllabi and Exams

subset: commoncrawl


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Student Involvement Center > First-Year Experience > Fall Welcome > Transfer Student Information
Not only is Fall Welcome for incoming freshman students, but for new transfer students as well! Multiple programs are designed specifically for transfer students to meet one another, the Transfer Mentors, and to learn about SLU. Be sure to mark your calendars specifically for the Transfer Student Orientation, Transfer Student Cook-out, and the alternative transfer student meeting locations for various activities.
Transfer Student Orientation
Thursday, August 22, 2013
6:30 - 7:30 pm
Busch Student Center, Saint Louis Room
All transfer students should attend this session to learn about getting involved with Fall Welcome as well as opportunities and resources for transfer students on campus. Come meet your Oriflamme Leaders and Transfer Mentors and begin to prep for upcoming Fall Welcome events!
Transfer Student Cookout
Saturday, August 24, 2013
5 - 7 pm
SLU Ruba
Come and enjoy a cookout with current and past SLU transfer students and get ready for the spirit competition and to cheer on the Billikens!
For more information regarding additional programming and support for transfer students, click here.


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Penn Museum Presents Peripheries 2012-13 Documentary Series
Monthly Film Screenings with Expert Commentators
On Second Sundays Beginning September 9
PHILADELPHIA, PA 2012—Peripheries, a new Penn Museum Second Sunday Culture Films series, explores the lives of people on society's margins through a wide range of recent documentary films. Faculty experts from the University of Pennsylvania and other institutions introduce each film, with open discussion following the screenings. Presented in association with the 2012-2013 Penn Humanities Forum on Peripheries, Penn Museum's Second Sunday Culture Film Series runs from October through February, beginning at 2:00 pm in the Museum's Rainey Auditorium, 3260 South Street. The series is free with Museum admission.
Read more: Peripheries Documentary Series Features Monthly Film Screenings with Expert Commentators
PHILADELPHIA, PA 2012—Kids and families can dig right in to art, culture, and adventure, as the Penn Museum offers Family Second Sunday Workshops, 1:00 to 4:00 pm from September 2012 through May 2013. Geared to families with children ages 5 and up, each Family Second Sunday Workshop features a craft, touchable artifacts, and gallery activities. Attendees may drop in anytime between 1:00 and 4:00 pm to participate.
Attendees to a Family Second Sunday Workshop automatically become members of Penn Museum's Art Excavators Club. Club members who attend three Family Second Sunday workshops receive a free surprise!
Read more: Art Excavators Club Meets Family Second Sundays at the Penn Museum, September 2012 through May 2013
From Monsters to Shakespeare with a Twist: Penn Museum Joins
The Philly Fringe with Two Programs September 13–16, 2012
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Expect some strange situations and unlikely happenings at the Penn Museum September 13 through 16, 2012, when the Museum opens its Chinese and ancient Egyptian galleries for two Philly Fringe events.
Renowned New York artist and teacher Douglas Irving Repetto brings his Monsters: A Workshop and Happening to the Chinese Rotunda and the Warden Garden for a memorable afternoon open to all audiences on Sunday, September 16. Thursday through Saturday, the University of Pennsylvania's own Underground Shakespeare Company uses the Museum's iconic Egypt (Sphinx) Gallery as the backdrop to a reimagining of the bard's famous tragedy Antony and Cleopatra.
Program details, and ticket information, below:
Read more: Penn Museum Joins The Philly Fringe with Two Programs September 13–16, 2012
For the most updated information on programs offered at the Penn Museum, and for online pre-registration (optional or required for some programs) visit the Penn Museum Event Calendar.
October 2
Tuesday, 6:00 pm
Live from the Archives!
The Chiney Shop (2012)
Penn Museum offers this U.S. premiere presentation of filmmaker/director Jeanette Kong's new documentary, The Chiney Shop. Drawing from the Penn Museum's unique 1930s footage of Jamaica, The Chiney Shop tells the story of Chinese shopkeepers all over Jamaica and their relationships to the communities of which they were a part. Jeanette Kong presents the film. The program concludes with a panel discussion on the Chinese diaspora in the West Indies, featuring Penn Anthropology Professor Dr. Deborah Thomas, organizer, with Dr. David Eng, Asian American Studies at Penn, and Dr. Anne Marie Lee-Loy of Ryerson University. Admission: Pay-what-you-want.
PHILADELPHIA (July 11, 2012) – Diamonds are a… museum's best friend.
As part of its 75th Anniversary this fall, the Women's Committee of the Penn Museum in Philadelphia is bringing back its signature fundraiser, TREASURES, Oct. 26–28. TREASURES originally began as a world cultures antiques show in 2005, and is now being relaunched with a focus on jewelry. The presenting sponsor of TREASURES is Tiffany & Co.
Read more: TREASURES Returns to Penn Museum Oct. 26–28 with New Focus on Jewelry
NEW SPECIAL EXHIBITS and DISPLAYS
Year of Proof: Making and Unmaking of Race
September 2, 2012 through August 18, 2013
Is there such a thing in humans called race? Since the emergence of biology and anthropology, scientists have developed categories for all living things, including humans. But what can the categorization of humans tell us? Penn Museum houses the notorious Morton Collection of skulls, collected to confirm 19th century society's beliefs about racial hierarchy. Understand how scientists have used the collection from the 19th century to today, and what implications arose from their respective analyses. Explore the history of race in this small display, which ties in with the University of Pennsylvania's 2013 themed "Year of Proof." Trescher Entrance Lobby, 1st Floor
Read more: Penn Museum Special Exhibition Schedule for Fall 2012
For the most updated information on programs offered at the Penn Museum, and for online pre-registration (optional or required for some programs) visit the Museum's website: www.penn.museum/calendar.
September 5–October 24
Wednesdays, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
Evening Program
Instructional Drum Circle
Come out and drum with Joseph Tayoun, internationally acclaimed Middle Eastern percussionist. Sessions include instruction of rhythms, technique, and a drum circle jam in the inspiring setting of the Museum's Egypt (Sphinx) gallery. A limited number of drums are provided; drummers are encouraged to bring their own drums. Dancers are welcome! Admission: $15 walk-in ($100 in advance for all eight sessions); $10 walk-in student/Penn Museum member rate ($70 in advance for eight sessions). For more information, call 215.898.2680.
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Wednesday nights ring out this summer in West Philadelphia, as the rich sounds of international music return to the lush garden setting at Penn Museum. The third annual P.M. @ Penn Museum Summer Nights music series features weekly performances on Wednesdays, June 20 through August 29, from 5:00 to 8:00 pm, in the Penn Museum's Stoner Courtyard.
The summer lineup features musical styles ranging from Middle Eastern folk/rock to Brazilian Bossa Nova and lively Creole Zydeco to funk fusion. For the after-work crowd, PM @ Penn Museum Summer Nights offers great live performances in a relaxed outdoor locale, as well as drinks and light fare from the Pepper Mill Café's garden bar, and the chance to explore Penn Museum's many galleries. Concerts move inside in the event of rain.
Penn Museum Presents an Evening to Imagine Africa
A Free Community Night of Music, Dance, and Art, Wednesday, May 23
As Part of Ongoing Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum Gallery Project
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Penn Museum hosts a celebration of African and African-American culture with a Free Community Night, Wednesday, May 23 from 5:00 to 8:00 pm. The evening features dynamic percussion by the West Powelton Steppers Drill Team, electrifying moves by line dance instructor Kenny J, and the spoken word poetry of the Philly Youth Poetry Movement, as well as a comic book workshop with members of the East Coast Black Age of Comics Convention. Councilwoman Jannie L. Blackwell joins Penn Museum in presenting this event, in conjunction with the ongoing Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum gallery project.
Read more: Penn Museum Presents an Evening to Imagine Africa, Wednesday, May 23
Metropolitan Museum's curator of the exhibition and University of Pennsylvania alumna Diana Craig Patch requested 10 objects from the Penn Museum, one of which is a spectacular stone door socket carved in the form of a captive, regularly on view in the Penn Museum's Upper Egyptian Gallery. With his body flattened to the ground and his hands bound behind, the figure on the door socket bears the unhappy likeness of a prisoner of Egypt under Pharaoh's domination. Once, part of a temple at the ancient cult site of Hierakonpolis, a heavy wooden door turned on a pivot that would have fit into the depression on the captive's back. The artifact dates to the first or second Egyptian dynasties—between 3000 and 2675 BCE.
Read more: Exchange of Prisoners with Metropolitan Museum of Art
MAY 1, 2012—It may not be the end of the world, but it is the end of plans for a 25-ton sand sculpture on The Porch in front of Amtrak 30th Street Station.
On Monday morning, Greg and Brandi Glenn, the California sand artist couple, began the 25-ton sand project for the Penn Museum, to herald the world premiere of MAYA 2012: Lords of Time, a new exhibition opening May 5. They had plans to sculpt a larger than life recreation of Altar Q, a famous monument from the UNESCO World Heritage site of Copan in Honduras.
After the sand arrived, some concerns developed because the sculpture was being created on a PennDOT bridge structure. University City District, partner of the project, was then informed that a series of approvals would be needed, taking several days in order for the project to move forward—time the sculptors did not have.
"We are sorry not to be able to present this sand sculpture, intended to celebrate the great Maya art of Copan, Honduras, as we herald the opening of MAYA 2012: Lords of Time—but we are mindful that it is not the end of the world!" noted Dr. Richard Hodges, Penn Museum Director. "Our new exhibition explores the supposed 'end of the world' predictions of the ancient Maya—and we hope that area residents and Amtrak riders alike will come to Penn Museum to see the rich art and culture in this great show—while there is still time!"
Read more: CANCELLED: SAND SCULPTURE PLANS FOR THE PORCH AT 30TH STREET STATION
El Penn Museum de Filadelfia explora los orígenes de las predicciones del fin del mundo en 2012 con la nueva e importante exhibición MAYA 2012: Los señores del tiempo
Presidente Lobo de Honduras Cortará la Cinta a la Celebración de Apertura, Sábado, el 5 de Mayo
FILADELFIA, PA—¿Creían los mayas que el mundo se terminaría en diciembre de 2012?
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Did the Maya believe the world would end in December 2012?
With MAYA 2012: Lords of Time—a world premiere exhibition—the Penn Museum confronts the current fascination with the year 2012, comparing predictions of a world-transforming apocalypse with their supposed origins in the ancient Maya civilization. The exhibition is presented in partnership with the Instituto Hondureño de Antropologia e Historia of the Republic of Honduras, opened May 5, and runs through January 13, 2013.
Read more: "MAYA 2012" World Premiere Opens May 5 with Fanfare
Penn Museum Presents "African Dance!"
A Showcase of African and African-Influenced Dance Performances
As Part of Ongoing Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum Gallery Project
PHILADELPHIA, PA—A diverse gathering of local dance performers lights up the stage Wednesday, April 25 at 6:00 pm with African Dance! This evening of African and African-influenced steps and moves features hip-hop dance by Rennie Harris RHAW, tap and percussive dance by Germaine Ingram and Bobby Zankel, West African dance by the Cachet Ivey Performing Arts Collective, and the Umfundalai technique of Kariamu & Company: Traditions. The event is curated by Terri Shockley, Executive Director of the Community Education Center, and is presented in conjunction with the ongoing Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum gallery project. Entry is free with Museum admission donation: $12, adults; $10, seniors (65 and above); $8, children (6-17) and full-time students with ID; free for children under 6.
Penn Museum Presents Hello India!
A World Culture Day Saturday, March 24, 1:00 to 4:00 pm
FREE with Museum Admission
PHILADELPHIA, PA—The rich culture, history, and intrigue of India take the spotlight at Penn Museum Saturday, March 24 from 1:00 to 4:00 pm, with Hello India! This special celebration of the vibrant nation welcomes children and families for an afternoon of classical dance performances and workshops, lively music, spicy Indian food, and an assortment of arts and crafts activities for all ages. Hello India! is FREE with Museum admission ($10 general admission; $7, seniors and military; $6, children 6-17 and students with ID; free for children under 6).
Hello India! is co-sponsored by the International Classroom at Penn Museum, the South Asian Center of Penn, Bharatiya Temple and Cultural Center, Chinmaya Mission, and Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
Penn Museum Hosts "Brazilian Groove" Cultural Celebration
A Free Community Day Saturday, March 31
As Part of Ongoing Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum Gallery Project
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Brazil's vibrant cultural and musical heritage take center stage during Brazilian Groove, a Free Community Day on Saturday, March 31, 10:00 am to 5:00 pm (with special programming from 1:00 to 4:00 pm) at the Penn Museum in Philadelphia. Brazil is a country richly influenced by the African diaspora and this family-friendly event features Afro-Brazilian drumming and dance workshops, a demonstration of the energetic dance and martial art of Capoeira Angola, and a Brazilian-influenced African dance performance. Brazilian Groove is a featured program presented in conjunction with the Museum's ongoing Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum gallery project and in partnership with ODUNDE and the Brasil Cultural Center.
Read more: Penn Museum Hosts Free "Brazilian Groove" Cultural Celebration
For the most updated information on programs offered at the Penn Museum, and for online pre-registration (optional or required for some programs) visit the Penn Museum Event Calendar.
May 2
Wednesday, 6:00 pm
Great Riddles in Archaeology Lecture Series
The Mystery of the Lost Jamestown Fort (1607-1624), the First Permanent English Settlement in North America
The Jamestown Fort, built in 1607, was the beginning of the first permanent British settlement in what is now the United States. Abandoned after its inhabitants relocated around 1624, the fort was believed to be lost forever until its rediscovery in 1994. Dr. Robert L. Schuyler, Associate Curator, Historical Archaeology Section, Penn Museum, discusses the missing years and the spectacular findings recently made in the fort's long history. Admission: $10 at the door; $5 with advance registration. For more information, call 215.898.2680.
Read more: Penn Museum May–June 2012 Advance Calendar of Events
Long Distance Runners of Mexico Are the Subject of a New Photography Exhibition
Run! Super-Athletes of the Sierra Madre
March 31 through September 30, 2012 at the Penn Museum
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Run! Super-Athletes of the Sierra Madre, a new exhibition of 30 contemporary color photographs by Diana Molina, opens at the Penn Museum in Philadelphia March 31 through September 30, 2012.
Read more: "Run! Super-Athletes of the Sierra Madre" Opens March 31
Hip Hop Artists "Imagine Africa" with the Penn Museum
At a Free Community Night Wednesday, March 28, 5:00 to 8:00 pm
Program is Part of Ongoing Imagine Africa Community Engagement Project
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Six local Hip Hop groups and artists—special visitors to the Penn Museum's African galleries in January—return to the Museum to perform their own original new music and lyrics live at a Free Community Night on Wednesday, March 28, from 5:00 to 8:00 pm. Imagine Africa at the Penn Museum and all the Museum galleries are open for the family-friendly evening, which features an African arts and craft table for children and families. Hip Hop Artists "Imagine Africa" with the Penn Museum is co-sponsored by the hip hop radio show, the IIourshow/ThorTakeover, LLC on WNJC 1360 AM.
Read more: Hip Hop Artists Perform at Free Community Night March 28
PHILADELPHIA, PA—Voices of Africa, Cultural Arts Collective choral and percussion ensemble, offers a community workshop and concert on Wednesday, February 22, 6 pm at the Penn Museum in Philadelphia. The family-friendly event, free with Museum admission ($10 adult; $7 seniors 65 and older; $6 students and children 6-17), is a featured program offered in conjunction with the Museum's year-long gallery project, Imagine Africa with the Penn Museum.
An African Cultural Arts Collective that works with a range of Philadelphia area artists from around the African Diaspora, Voices of Africa has performed widely throughout the region, around the country at sites including the Kennedy Center for Performing Arts, Washington, D.C., and the National Women's Music Festival, and at venues internationally since its founding in 1990. The Penn Museum program with Voices of Africa features an ensemble of 6-8 singers, drummers and dancers. The program is curated by Gina Renzi, Director of The Rotunda, a community gathering place in University City, fueled by the belief that art is a catalyst of social change.
Read more: Voices of Africa Musical Ensemble Offers Community Concert and Workshop, Wednesday, February 22
3260 South Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104
(215) 898-4000
Tuesday-Sunday: 10:00am - 5:00pm
First Wednesdays: 10:00am - 8:00pm
Monday: CLOSED


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A commonly reported problem with the FZ5 is the lens becoming stuck in one position. This is because the cogs that drive it are made of plastic and the mounting for the lens motor is a bit flimsy. A Panasonic service centre will charge quite a bit just to look at your camera, let alone fix it, yet this is a relatively simple thing to fix if you're not afraid of dismantling things.
Of course, you do this at your own risk, not mine. I can't offer any guarantee that this will work for you, but a few people have had the same error and performed the same fix successfully. Work carefully and it should be fine. This may also be applicable for similar panasonic compacts, such as the FZ7.
(Note on photography: I captured the LCD screen and balanced it with the rest of the scene by bouncing a powerful flash off a white blanket on the floor of a small room, which also had a white ceiling. At around 1/80 - 1/100 of a sec, the 16 feet or so the flash light had to travel balanced the screen and the rest of the camera up well, and provided good diffuse lighting for the innards of the camera).
All went well - ribbon connectors are difficult, a small 3mm bit of plastic fell out and must have been jamming it. Took 1.5hrs for a novice, but had good tools. Thanks, great tutorial, next time I will take the lens apart and clean it as shown on youtube.
We noticed however that the transmission of the inner barrel of the lens through the outer barrel was not smooth and became stuck in a number of positions. Working at gently moving the parts, we finally dislodged some small particles of black plastic. With the application of a little WD40 to the guides, we then reassembled the camera and everything seems fine apart from the flash unit not working - we do not even get the flash drop down options on pressing the RHS menu button. We noticed that on disassembly that a spurious red coloured connector had become detached from its partner, which we assumed to be a spare connector under the flash unit - but oviously not. Does anyone have any thoughts?
I love the FZ8 but have been dismayed at the poor quality of the lens transmission system - is this just a Panasonic problem or are all cameras like this today?
Many thanks
The lens motor works but when I turn the camera on I get the message "Remove lens cap and press > button,"
Then the image appears out of focus and the zoom button does not work.
So there is no lens movement at all. I thought it might be a broken connection but I have disassembled it and reassembled it several times withourt success. The lens moves into the fully out position and stays there. Does anyone have any ideas?
I have yet to have a problem with the lens adjusting, but I haven't been able to get my flash to work for a while : ( The flash pops up, the light just doesn't flash. Any ideas?
BTW, if you apply 5 volts DC across the two contacts on the round circuit at the end of the motor assembly, you can get the lens to move out or in. Reverse the polarity and it will do the opposite. Handy for troubleshooting.
Also, by the third stripdown I managed to keep keep everything together and just remove the ribbons, screws through the main board, and the two by the flash. Then the whole thing just slides out although back flops around a bit. Thanks again!
One of the external screws (by the strap cleat) stripped during disassembly and I had to drill the head off. But the other five and the allen bolt cinched the entire seam together.
The bad news: I had been checking out an FZ28 on sale (higher MP, resolution, zoom, and also wider angle) but now it's harder for me to rationalize buying it.
Still, I'll be going to Alaska in July, and this FZ5 IS 3-plus years old..... ;}
In any case, REALLY COOL to 1) visit the guts of this camera and 2) actually fix - or "mechanically reboot" - it !
Thanks a bunch !


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- Sebastian Sluga
- Fairfield, PA
- United States
This conversation is closed.
Video games = art?!?
should video games be considered a form of Art, not just an example of design? If you cant think of an example of Games as Art, then what would that look like? Who is doing it right? What is keeping it from achieving Art?
Jun 3 2013: Video games are like movies. Some will be considered art, and others will be considered a commercial product.Jun 3 2013: maybe worth checking a game called "Journey"
Jun 3 2013: I followed the link. Have you seen Journey in action yourself? If so, what were its stand-out features to you?
Jun 3 2013: i don't have a ps3, but i saw reviews and video footage. everyone that tried had an emotional blast and long lasting impression of loneliness, decay, sadness, joy of meeting someone, grieve of losing someone, and such things.Jun 4 2013: Even if you never played a video game before, you should experience this game. It's beautiful.Jun 4 2013: Journey is one of the games that gets brought up alot, and for good reason....
Its a prime example of what Indie Games are doing for the game industry... If a game could be considered Art it will probably be an Indie game....
and while I haven't played it myself, I have sat behind friends while they played it and found my self mesmerized by the styling and soundscape. It is a beautiful experience....
Another surreal game is a bit more mainstream but if you ever play it or watch someone play it "Katherine" is an amazing game that has a lot of meaning and symbolism mixed into what is essentially a puzzle game... but the way the game plays, the ambiance, the pacing; it leaves your deeply engaged and present as the game unfolds..... If you don't feel like you're going crazy by the end of Katherine you probably were't playing Katherine...Jun 5 2013: Just like films, books and music, video games are starting to get the same categoric division. One end would be the purely entertaining games like Warcraft etc. and the other end would be games like Journey and others which have a deeper dimension.
I saw a playthrough of Journey on YouTube, it's about 1:30h and it's amazing. The design, the music and the unbelievably emotional aspect of meeting an anonymous companion along the way are clearly an example of how video games can be channeled to present a whole new kind of interactive artistic expression.
One other game I would point out to is Planescape: Torment. I was very young when I played it but I still remember how fantastic and complex the story was. Ultimately it was a fantasy game but it raised philosophical, moral and ethical issues, relations and self-reflection posing a very interesting question "What can change the nature of a man?" The end was almost reminiscent to that of a Greek tragedy and I highly recomend it to everyone. The story was of course acompanied with amazing visuals for that time and very, very creative ambient and setting (though taken from D&D it was brilliantly adapted and brought to life).
In a few years I honestly expect to find masterpieces of art among games that don't focus on entertainment but rather on a more complex form of expression much like films, which will integrate a multitude of disciplines such as direction, visual design, interaction design, camerawork and writting.
Fabian Ted
Jun 1 2013: This discussion does not lead anywhere, if we do not discuss first: What is art?
- +2
If we have agreed on a definition of art, we can examine whether it applies on video games.
As far as my intuitive understanding is concerned, yes of course it is art. It is even like a combination of several art forms, story-telling, graphics, audio, and the composition of all. A lot of artists involved. Is the programming also an art? The software design? Its an interesting question. Also has certain unique attributes, the art of level design? The art of creating an illusion?
Anton Holzer
Jun 4 2013: What is art? I define art as something that can create feelings. So if you play or look at a video game and it succeeds at creating feelings, then it is art. Some games might be considered art by a lot of people, some might be art for a few, but that's not different from literature, paintings, music, films or any other kind of art.
- +1
There are a few ways games used to convince me of them being art. Sometimes it's an amazing story, like for example the Final Fantasy Series, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, Half Life or Project Zero. With deep characters, unexpected but believable twists, an incredible narration and well hidden connections to our or previous times. Sometimes it's a new approach to narrating itself. For example interactive movies like Heavy Rain, Indigo Prophecy, Phoenix Wright or Steins Gate. Sometimes they do it with beautiful pictures like in Shadow of the Colossus, Flow or Oblivion. Occasionally it's a new game mechanic like in Sims, Portal or Crazy Machines. Or a different style for graphics like in Killer 7, XIII or Limbo.
Art can be found in nearly everything and in my opinion a lot of games have earned the right to be called "art" a long time ago.
Gabriel Zech
Jun 3 2013: Personally, I think that some games (as it happens with movies) should be considered art, whether some shouldn't. Some are sold having profit as a goal, when some are made for people to understand, be impressed and love them, to feel emotions while playing and bring back memories. Or you can have a sort of realism, where graphics or the game's physics are designed to be as similar as possible to reality. And some, even, are only raw art, being abstract or with little gameplay at all.
- +1
But what I think games are most important at, and where almost any other type of art fails at, is interaction. When playing some games, you can feel as you were watching a movie: tense, afraid, happy, depressed, melancholic, amazed. But when playing a game, you don't simply watch it, as if you were only part of a distanced audience or an external viewer. When you hold the power to interact with the game and take decisions, move your character, chose what he speaks, chose what to do, and so on, you feel as if you were inside of it. You feel part of it. It is not only looking at a drawing, looking at a movie, listening to a music, but it is taking part in that world. A game called Dear Esther, for example, is a good example of this. Dear Esther is an amazing mix of artistic and realistic scenery, a philosophical and poetical plot about a dying man's writings, including emotional memories and suspense created on who is playing, not to forget a perfect ending featuring it all in a few artistic and incredible unspoken seconds. And you feel like you are really inside of the story because you are the one who controls the walking person.
Therefore, and I know and accept that my view of 'art' might be different to many people, I believe that games can be a sort of art that can combine and include many other types of art: visual arts, applied and decorative arts (music, dance, film), performing arts (literature, poetry), etc. with the incredible possibility of interaction.
Jun 4 2013: Its that aspect of video games that i fell in love with... Since 1st grade i had an affinity for the arts and pretty much knew i would attempt to do SOMETHING with it.... it wasn;t till i saw the Opening cinimatic for a popular game of the time, Final Fantasy X, that i realized Video Games were an option. it was the first time a game, this interactive world was as visually stimulating as a movie or painting. Not only was it beautiful but "I" was running around in it. If i want to explore every inch i could. If i wanted to talk to people i Could.... In that moment I knew i could invite every body into my Imagination... that if I could make a video game i would be able to show people the things i see, the stories and characters i imagine every moment i have to myself....Not only show them these things but let them interact with them and experience them as i get to experience them in my own mind....
so how could something capable of that NOT be considered Art?
greg dahlen
Jun 2 2013: I would think some video games are art, and some aren't.
- +1
Joshua Graf
Jun 2 2013: "Art is anything you can get away with." - Andy Warhol
- +1
"Art is anything people do with distinction." - Louis Dudek
"Art is the path of the creator to his work." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I'm trying to remember what this quote was (and who said it) I heard the other day... something like, "Art is anything a person buys that he doesn't need."
Hehe. Got this instead: "art, n. This word has no definition." - Ambrose Bierce
or better yet, "Great art is horse****, buy tacos." - Charles Bukowski
But it's fascinating: with Roger Ebert's recent demise, and this topic, yet there's no mention of him?
In the end he admitted he was likely wrong, and apologized for that clumsily naive statement (he'd been famously pummeled for once saying that video games [unlike movies] aren't, and can't be, art.)
Neale Long
Jun 2 2013: Anna Anthropy presents a compelling contribution to this discussion in her book, 'Rise of the Videogame Zinesters'. This text champions video games as an expressive medium, and conveys the importance of games being developed by a wider demographic, so as to contribute more human perspectives than simply that of the desire to 'shoot aliens in the face'.
- +1
Ian Bogost also offers a great insight into the idea of whether or not video games can be classed as works of art in his book, 'How to Do Things with Videogames'.
Barry Palmer
Jun 1 2013: IMO, "real art" reflects the human condition.
- +1
There are millions of pieces in museums that do not fit this criteria, so this is just a personal idea, for whatever it might be worth.
To me, something is art when it captures something very specific that almost everyone can relate to, because it reflects something that we all share. Also, it must do it intentionally, and with quality.
It is possible to send out a troop of 4 year old children with cameras and have them photograph whatever they want. Out of the resultant thousands of photographs, a few will look like art. That is not art, that is probability. Some well respected photographers use basically the same strategy..
Jun 3 2013: Barry, if you send those children out with cameras, with the assignment to take pictures of something that touches them emotionally, then all of them will be works of art. Art is the creative process, like you say, that reflects the human condition. An adult's snapshot of their holiday in Ibiza is not art either. A person's interpretation of something that can be captured on film, is.
Kevin Young
May 31 2013: Are we differentiating design from art? I ask this only because, as someone within the design/architecture field, I run into people who believe what we are doing is extremely technical (not art), where as others view it as extremely expressive (art). The same is probably true, I imagine, with video games. There are technical aspects to designing a video games, and non-technical aspects, and it's this amazing blend of right-brain and left-brain that makes the end product. That in itself can probably be considered art.
- +1
I've heard the same debate about script writing for video games. Should writing a story line for a video game be considered below the quality of writing a story line for a tv show, musical, play, or movie? I'm not an extreme gamer, but I've played video games with immensely deep and emotional story lines in them.
So I am just curious. Is design separate from art? Or should we consider them one and the same? Maybe art assumes operating without constraints, without a specific client or target group in mind. Where as design, we tend to have a client and intended audience in mind, and set parameters and boundaries.
May 31 2013: I think there is plenty of difference between art and design.... though in these professional arts the design is as much the medium as the medium itself... for instance i can imagine in architecture you don't think of elements of design as some kind of limiting force per se, but more like different colored paints you use on a canvas, the canvas being the final "design".
and i would also think that many "Professional " artists find they are more creative and more involved in the work when it has these limitations.... Like a puzzle that must be solved.
in games, your limitations are simple; is it fun, does it work, is it different... basically your only limitation is what the system your game will be played on is capable. while the "industry" has stagnated in their pursuit of money.... tje Indie community has been experimenting and creating amazing stuff....
I guess what i am saying is with Video games Sure design is a huge part of the process, especially if your goal is to sell to a specific market, but its not the rule, its a screw driver in our toolbox.May 31 2013: Hi Sebastian!
I think, in an age where computer technology is advancing faster than we can keep up with it, art is evolving into forms we may have trouble accepting... this goes for any type of art, in my opinion, visual or musical.
You could consider a video game to be interactive art, a graphic tale in which you yourself play a key role. Just looking at how video games have evolved in the past 40 years is a feat in itself. CGI and 3-D in film is breathtakingly real, and just as much a form of art, to me.
Have you had a look at Fritzie's conversation about art in museums nowadays? This topic is also touched upon there.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_artJun 9 2013: I think that video games are generally related to design, not to art - just because of their definition: They want to entertain the player and sell themselves. And when they want to sell they ARE related to design.
Of course there're blurred borders in all "design disciplines" and °arts.° So some designs can be defined as art and art can be defined as design.Jun 8 2013: Video game is no doubt a form of Design from the very beginning. Design and Art have different purposes in general. But there is a fine line between Art and Fine Art. If we consider craft work as art in a broad definition, then some high-quality video games could be considered as craft art because of beautiful scenery and smooth navigation design, which is entertaining and functional. However, video game is not capable of becoming Fine Art because of its very nature. Video game is part of the game family including sports, math, cards, and more.
I agree with many people here: Fine Art is ultimately the reflection of humanity, a mirror to the soul, and sublime experiences of life, which is not necessarily functional, entertaining, or even beautiful.
So video game is more related to Design.
Design - Yes
Craft Art - maybe (it depends on the graphics quality)
Fine Art - No
P.S.: Art provokes emotions/feelings. However, whatever provoking emotions doesn't have to be art, such as war, a new-born baby, abusive words, or a rose...
Jun 8 2013: Couple of things:
Are you saying video games cannot reflect humanity, echo sublime experiences of life, and that sort of things? But then again, this will all become subjective in discussion.
Also, the way you describe the design of video games makes me wonder if film and filmmaking should be design instead art because of its functional approach and mechanical reorganization of reality.
One more thing, I'm confused with the art/fine art differentiation. Are you saying video games are art but not fine art? Moreover, do we need to make a distinction if the goal of art and fine art are the same (in that case, what is the definition of art as opposed to fine art, is art not a reflection of humanity?).
Jun 9 2013: Good questions and there are no Yes or No answers. As I said before, there is a fine line between Art and Fine Art. Millions of people draw and paint, how many Van Gogh and Michelangelo in history? A hand-made ceramic bowl by my 5-year old niece reflects humanity too. Is that art, fine art, or things that only my family likes? Moreover, is Architecture considered Fine Art, Art, or Design? In short, as you mentioned, this would become subjective in discussion. To explain everything in perspective might take hours. (not kidding) Not that I don't want to help, but in order to prove/support what I am trying to convey, the among of research, practices, and theories involved could lead to a conference paper easily. :-) which would be interesting to write.
Jun 9 2013: Yea, it definitely would. Though I personally believe video games are art, any sort of perception of video games, like labeling them as a for of interactive design, is always a good thing for the medium, because I am more of a supporter for a better understanding of video games (and more respect) and putting it in the MOMA was a great move by Paola and the way she did it pleased me.
Art or design, I think video games have limitless potential and, as a gamer of 16 years (so, yea, a lot of bias), I know there are a great number of things people can learn from them.
-DanJun 6 2013: I agree with what a lot of people have said here, that art is something that reflects the human condition, and idea, etc, and that art can be manifest in many different forms.
For the most part, however, I do not consider video games art. Yes, there are games with amazing scenery, etc, but this is one aspect, and the people designing the aesthetic for the game create art, though the game is not art itself.
The most prominent example of a game being art that I can think of if most definitely Braid, created by Jonathan Blow. Its imagery and flow are superb, its gameplay mechanics are phenomenal, and its philosophy is outstanding. Everything about the game makes it, to me at least, art. It is the culmination of artistry in all aspects of a game. I highly recommend, and I believe that most people sharing views along the same lines as I in terms of what is art would agree.Jun 5 2013: I absolutely consider it art. I often find myself in the modern landscapes of the games and think to myself how long it took. My favorite game, Battlefield 3, has the most beautiful landscapes I've ever seen, and they are huge as well. I researched how long it took them to make it, and found out that they spent years making an entire new engine (system used to make games) just to match their needs for the game. With all the graphic art in it, I feel like it is definitely art. Same with other games, as well. Out of the 8-bit pixel era now, games are masterpieces and take months, sometimes years, to develop. There are even games solely devoted to just be aesthetically pleasing. A game called Journey comes to my mind when I think that. Not exactly the funnest gameplay, but beautiful art and amazing music went into the game.Jun 4 2013: Never played a videogame, but judging by the comments and links here, it looks fascinating and could see myself becoming hooked!
It certainly sounds like an art form to me. Anything that has the capability of removing one from the mundane into the extraordinary, is art as far as I'm concerned.
Jun 4 2013: "Never played a videogame"
i have always suspected that something is wrong with you
Jun 4 2013: :-))Jun 4 2013: In my opinion video games include both the elements of art and design so I consider them as a form of Architecture.
Video games are Architecture!May 31 2013: and i think i should clarify.
I agree with the MoMA collection as being examples of interactive design. I understand Miss Antonelli's stance on the exhibit. I am interested in finding what everyone thinks of video games as art... What would a video game look like to be considered "Real Art".
technology has finally reached a point where video games are virtually only limited by our imagination.... so if i ever want to make an "Art Game" what would that look like?May 31 2013: I think my biggest issue with this is how culturally we don't think of professional production artists (Game Designers, graphic artists, animators) as being "Real Artists". That because they make a living outside of the gallery, their work is less meaningful.
Ive had many friends, currently working in the game industry, put together a gallery show and if its not some example what they do professionally its ridiculed as a game artist attempting to be a "real" artist...
and its not really just about video games... I personally have high regard for comic book artists, and 2D animators. And I find it enraging that sooo many people hear Comic Book, or Animation and think its for kids; that an adult who appreciates or views these mediums is somehow immature. This translates all the way up to the art world.... where it seems having a strong sense for anatomy and color theory seem to be shunned.May 31 2013: Yes it is a form of art. I also agree with Lizanne about this. I don't know the process and too old to learn at this point but I do see the art involved.May 31 2013: To the best of my knowledge, anyone can claim to be an artist, and anyone can claim that any product is art.
Picasso would scribble on a piece of paper, sign it, and his signature would make it valuable. Some of these scribbles were seriously reviewed by serious art critics.
There have been instances when highly reputed art critics praised the art produced by animals.
May 31 2013: You can then argue, Barry, which was actually valuable - Picasso's scribble, or his signature?
May 31 2013: When people argue that a scribble is art, the word "art" becomes meaningless.
Jun 1 2013: True. In my humble opinion, the meaning of art, is what I consider valuable, because of how it affects me. For some, I suppose the meaning isn't important, it's an investment.May 31 2013: I don't play video games, but I understand there can be both creative illustrations/moving pictures and creative narrative. These dimensions would qualify a game as art.


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Nathan Copeland Signs Minor League Contract With Atlanta Braves
Friday, June 15, 2001Johnson City, Tenn. -- Former East Tennessee State University baseball standout Nathan Copeland signed a free agent contract with the Atlanta Braves in Danville, Va. today. The Elizabethton, Tenn., native will begin his minor league assignment with the Danville Braves of the Appalachian League. Joining Copeland in the Appalachian League is former teammate Andy Baxter who will play with the Burlington Indians after being selected by the Cleveland Indians in the 2001 Major League Baseball Draft. The 6'4" outfielder led the Southern Conference in slugging percentage (.679) and home runs (17). He also led the team with 67 RBIs and ranked second on the team and fifth in the SoCon in batting average (.379). Copeland earned All-Southern Conference and SoCon All-Tournament honors this season. He compiled a 22-game hit streak, the second longest in ETSU history. "I am very proud and excited for Nathan," head coach Tony Skole said. "This is icing on the cake after a great senior season. He has a lot of tools and tremendous ability. We are excited to watch him progress in professional baseball."