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- Christopher Halliwell
- Brookhaven, MS
- United States
Secondary Education Physics, Mississippi State University
This conversation is closed.
What is the advantage of evolving the ability to cry?
Is it simply a result of evolving the ability for complex emotions?
Jim Ryan
Mar 20 2013: What evidence do you have that we evolved the ability to cry? Can you prove we didn't always have that ability? Just speaking to science, never religion.
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Mar 20 2013: This is a great question. There seems to be an implied assumption that all abilities and features possessed by humans and other living creatures must have "evolved" and must have played some role for "survival of the fittest". This statement seems to be as unfalsifiable as the implied assumption that all creatures we see with all abilities they have have been "created".
But what if crying is one of those numerous random mutations that have no advantages for survival whatsoever and, eventually, will disappear or just stay there because it does not lead to extinction either?
Jim Ryan
Mar 20 2013: Arkady, I mostly agree, from my perspective, science does not prove evolution and religion does not prove its position. However, our tears do wash unwanted things out of our eyes. By what medical specialists claim, we need our eyes to remain moist or bad stuff happens.
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My question is, could eyes do without moisture constantly? I will do a little research on the next part and that is, do our tear ducts supply the constant moisture needed for our eyes.
That's something I never thought about before.
Have a good evening Arkady,
Ya made me think, thank you. :)
Mar 20 2013: I thought of the same thing as Jim.
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If you've ever had something in your eyes.....like a lash or a small speck of something, your eyes well up with tears right away to get the foreign object out.
Could sadness be a foreign object in our mind's eye.......and therefore the brain creates tears to "let go" of this foreign object, that is, our sadness?
I personally have laughed so hard that I have cried. And I have seen others do so as well.
Mar 21 2013: I understand the function of tears. But what's the function of emotional crying when there is nothing wrong with the eyes?Mar 21 2013: Mary,
What you are suggesting seems very consistant with scientific research, which indicates that crying and laughing may be emotionally healing.Supposedly, based on what I have explored on this topic, the same kind of healing endorphins are released in the body/mind when we cry and/or laugh.
You ask...."But what's the function of emotional crying when there is nothing wrong with the eyes?"
It feels like a release.....it just FEELS good when it is needed. I don't think it's a matter of "evolving the ability to cry". I think it is simply a matter of allowing a natural process to happen.Mar 20 2013: Arkady, dont you think if tear glands and crying are random mutations, then how are tears present in all humans? Humans prefer to have tears, just based on the prevalence and survival of Tears. Have you ever heard of a person with no tear glands? You probably can find some on google, but they are infinitesimal. I believe It is safe to say that tears were a very primitive terrestrial adaption. Preterrestrial animals were all Marine and are used to an abundant amount of moisture around they're visionary senses (i.e. the eyes). When Continents in earth formed, marine habitats were destroyed and many organisms had to approach new 'waters', and it was what we know as continental earth. Only the fittest animals were capable of transitioning into terrestrial(LAND) organisms. Land was very dry unlike the ocean, so animals who had dryed out eyes have bad or no vision and therefore less chance of survival. Animals who developed tears to keep moisture around their eyes are probably the ones that passed their offsprings, therefore continuity and increase in alele frequency. It is hard to see how Arkady thought of this question. if we lose our tears doesnt mean we all are gonna die and our reproductive capabilities are gone. Well the thing is you never know, because it's all chance and probabilities.
Mar 21 2013: What you say applies to the functionality of tear glands. Christopher's question clearly pertains to emotional crying. How does that help us survive?
Re: "dont you think if tear glands and crying are random mutations, then how are tears present in all humans?"
Correct me if I'm wrong. It is my understanding that the theory of evolution considers that all biological advances started as random changes. Otherwise, you have to admit that life and evolutionary progress has a "purpose" which leads to creationism. Random mutations spread across species through reproduction. I'm not a biologist, though. I may be wrong.Mar 21 2013: Solaiman, I love the quote from your profile:
"My TED Story
I was scrolling around the appstore in my newly unlocked iphone, and I was like *tap*, and then thats it.."
This, in my view, is a very nice summary of how evolution and scientific discovery work :-).Mar 21 2013: it's not that simple, there's a third option: that crying is a part of some other process that is very necessary, a kind of side effect. there might also be 4th of 5th possibilities that neither of us has thought of!
Mar 21 2013: Arkady what you said was completely correct. oh man. I just realized that tears dont necessarily act as defense mechanism because people also cry of joy; and what harm would joy do to someone's body(?!) my best guess emotions affect a part of our brain which we still cant comprehend and psychology. Im blabbering. Im not in a position to speculate cuz im no expert and i have no references to what im saying.
It's fun to speculate :PPPP I actually just turned sophmore, biology is my niche
Nathan Cook
Mar 21 2013: Thats a lotta dry eyes if we have no tear glands. Id start selling visine on the street corner. Just thinkin about not being able to shed tears is making me cry........... i gotta go.... sorry guys.
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Ben Jarvis
Mar 21 2013: there is a lot of evidence that many of our physiological responses (blushing etc) are social signals, and i'd be surprised if crying wasn't naturally selected for the same reason. the spoken word came relatively late in our evolution, and so mournful cries and watering eyes would be a good cue to family members to provide comfort from either physical or emotional pain. sympathy and mutual assistance being important facets of our ability to survive and thrive.
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Mar 21 2013: Expression of emotion plays largely in the social intelligence of humans. Bottomline: crying has many different functions , so that means the ability to cry isnt simple. It is very hard to comprehend humans losing tear glands anytime soon, unless we evolve into emotionless, electronic, metalloid robots!(they wouldnt have use for tear glands!) Therefore, the adaptation of the ability to cry is crucial for humans evolution and reign over Earth.
Ben Jarvis
Mar 21 2013: not necessarily. it might have once been simple, but we now have many uses for it as our social structures have evolved along with our physical structures. we could lose tear glands if something more useful ever came along. they're not crucial, but they help, which is why they survive as a trait.Mar 21 2013: Our ability to rationalize things is truly amazing. We can find a purpose for anything we see. When we need to kill a mammoth and use stones for that purpose, we may start believing that killing mammoths is the purpose of stones. Well, that was OUR purpose for them.
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Why can't we signal grief and comfort each other by rubbing our noses together? Why cries and tears?
Mar 21 2013: because rubbing noses takes a conscious effort, it is an action not a signal. anyway that argument doesn't work because it could have been something other than cries and tears. it doesn't have to be tears, but something is beneficial, so when that something comes about, it is naturally selected for.
also your example is not of rationality. if we were rationalizing the existence of stones we'd see that they aren't 'for' anything until we give them a purpose. deciding that stones must be for killing mammoths is the exact opposite of rational thought!
Mar 21 2013: Re: "also your example is not of rationality. if we were rationalizing the existence of stones we'd see that they aren't 'for' anything until we give them a purpose. deciding that stones must be for killing mammoths is the exact opposite of rational thought!"
With that said, substitute "stones" for "tears" and "killing mammoths" for "expressing emotions".Mar 21 2013: you've skipped the rational part again. many studies have shown the importance of outward behaviors such as flushed cheeks, and many more have shown the importance of social structure in the evolution of human society (do you debate either of these points?) it's not a leap at all to conclude that tears likely are another part of this, that they are useful to society and individuals within that society. there's a pattern there, you don't have to 'try' to rationalize anything.
there is no evidence that stones evolved, nor any precedent nor similarities, however there is a lot of evidence that human physiological responses have evolved, many precedents that lead me to suggest this conclusion (facial expressions, growls etc to name but 2 more) all of which are similar - a human physiological response to stimuli.
by your own argument, we could not possibly conclude that lack of air in a tyre is the cause of poor vehicle handling! utter nonsense to dismiss something out of hand because you personally declare it to be unknown.
Mar 21 2013: Let's step back. It's impossible to establish by means of reasoning what is reasonable and what is not. This part of the argument is silly.
You seem to say that people cry with tears to signal emotions to other people. Signaling emotions to each other plays important role for social survival. Therefore, crying with tears to signal emotions is justified for evolutionary purposes. Right?
While signaling emotions is important, it is unclear why crying with tears is a suitable or the best way to do that.
Blushing can be explained by hormones produced as a result of emotion affecting blood circulation and breathing. Blushing may serve as a signal of emotion because of the connection between emotion and blushing. But, in my opinion, it is incorrect to say that "people blush to signal emotions".
Similarly, people may cry as a result of emotion because certain emotions may, for instance, happen to excite areas in our brain responsible for secretion of tears. Just as with blushing, I don't think crying has a purpose of signaling emotion, because crying is not the only and not the best way of signaling emotions. It is used for this purpose like the stone is used to kill a mammoth, but, in my opinion, it has not "evolved" for this purpose nor it is caused by our need to signal emotions.
I hope, you find this reasonable.
Ben Jarvis
Mar 22 2013: yes it is, and that's the flaw with your own cognitive process that's leading you to dismiss evidence.
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it is a suitable way to do that, as evidenced by thousands of years of human social life. i didn't say it was the best way, it's just the way that evolved and it does the job.
your opinion is wrong, but that's understandable because you are again looking at only one point. there are many purposes of blushing and flushing, one of them (and only one of many) is just as you said, another one of them is a sexual signal, useful for a pre-verbal human.
again i didn't say crying was the only way, i said it clearly has a purpose which it achieves. we could possibly have developed other ways, some of them could be better, but this is what happened to evolve and it works so it remains part of human physiology. it is not in any way similar to how a stone is used to kill a mammoth. crying is innate while throwing a stone is not (we have to think about it and choose to do it), crying is a reaction while throwing a stone is not, just to give two.
indeed it has not evolved for any purpose at all, that's not what evolution is about. new traits come up, and if they are useful they get kept, that's all. a likely scenario is one day a human was the first to cry. it provoked a response from members of the group who rendered assistance, increasing the chance that that human would survive and bear children who would also cry when they were upset. that's not my opinion, that's a conclusion drawn from evidence.
i think this question might help you understand: why did we evolve fingers?
Mar 22 2013: This was a great discussion. I finally have to completely agree with you. I had doubts regarding "survival of the fittest" principle being a tautology paraphrased as "survival of the survivors". This article explains it. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolphil/tautology_org_ver.html. It doesn't appear to be a tautology if we speak of specific adaptations, because "fittest" isn't defined as just "survivors" but is defined through specific traits in every specific case. The argument isn't obviously invalid as it was supported by Karl Popper among others.
However, why we signal emotions through crying and not by other means is a more complex question as noted at the end of the article:
"In order to explain why a species exhibits this trait rather than that trait, you need to know what the null hypothesis is (otherwise you can make a selective explanation for both a case and its opposite equally well). Perhaps it has this trait because its ancestors had it and it has been maintained by selection. Perhaps it has it because it would be too disruptive of the entire genome and developmental machinery to remove it. Perhaps it has it for reasons to do with genetic drift, simple accident, or whatever. In order to make a good scientific explanation, says Griffiths, you must know a fair bit about the phylogeny of the species, its environmental distribution, and how the processes that create the trait work at the level of genes, cells and zygotes.
This leads us to the question of what a scientific explanation really is; indeed, it opens up the question of what science is, that it is so different from other intellectual pursuits like backgammon, theology or literary criticism."
And the article regarding falsifiability of evolution was also a good read: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolphil/falsify.html. It appears that scientific theories do not have to be falsifiable to be scientific. Which still leaves me puzzled over what science is. The article is open-ended.Mar 22 2013: Re: "there are many purposes of blushing and flushing"
Perhaps, it's better to say "functions", not "purposes". Language is quite important as we speak of evolution. It often creates an illusion that we imply volition in nature. Here is Darwin on this issue:
"Others have objected that the term selection implies conscious choice in the animals which become modified; and it has even been urged that, as plants have no volition, natural selection is not applicable to them! In the literal sense of the word, no doubt, natural selection is a misnomer; but who ever objected to chemists speaking of the elective affinities of the various elements?—and yet an acid cannot strictly be said to elect the base with which it will in preference combine. It has been said that I speak of natural selection as an active power or Deity; but who objects to an author speaking of the attraction of gravity as ruling the movements of the planets? Every one knows what is meant and is implied by such metaphorical expressions; and they are almost necessary for brevity. So again it is difficult to avoid personifying the word Nature; but I mean by Nature, only the aggregate action and product of many natural laws, and by laws the sequence of events as ascertained by us."
This is what causes my eyebrows raise in the phrase "our emotions are programmed by evolution."
Daniel Gero
Mar 16 2013: Emotions can stir up a lot of energy in us. Crying is a harmless release of this built up emotional energy; a negative example would be destructive anger (ever punched a wall?). Some people have been taught crying is bad - this may lead to less productive releases of emotional energy - drinking and/or substance abuse ("it's ok to cry if you're drunk"), violence, or emotional detachment. In short, I'd say crying is a healthy release, and yes - allows us to deal with complex emotions.
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It's not all sadness and pain, sometimes it's just a release of overwhelming emotional responses to things such as joyous occasions, powerful music, inspiring speeches etc.. There's all kinds of things that make us well up, including exhibitions of extreme kindness and compassion by other beings.Mar 15 2013: Another question is what is the evolutionary advantage of smiling? We evolved the ability to communicate and to feel empathy because cooperation is useful in order for survival and in order to help our genes (family) survive. Smiling, laughing, crying are ways we communicate emotional states and tie in with our ability to feel empathy for each other. All three can be described as "contagious" because of our ability to experience empathy. Something interesting is that dogs have developed human empathy by co-evolving with us where as cats are just plotting to eat us when we die...
Mar 15 2013: Hi William,
Smiling, laughing, crying all release healing endorphins in the mind/body.
LOL! Dogs have empathy....cats are just plotting to eat us when we die!!! Thanks for the laugh:>)
Did you ever hear...
"Dogs have masters, cats have staff"
pat gilbert
Mar 21 2013: Mostly it is a tool used by women and children to gain something. Once in a blue moon it actually is a manifestation of grief.
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Mar 21 2013: My dear Pat,
Perhaps if we (women) have learned ways of manipulating with the act of crying, it means we are more evolved! LOL:>)
pat gilbert
Mar 21 2013: I would not argue otherwise, this is no hat rack on my shoulders or at least some of the time.
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Mar 21 2013: OH MY GOODNESS.....I think I'm gonna frame your comment Pat, and cry with joy:>)Mar 21 2013: Of course you are! Women can beat men hands down in any survival game and I don't mean in any unfair way. Evolution favors tenacity over brute strength, coping skill over aggression. Women are born managers and negotiators.
However, I think biologically males are better looking than females. If you look around among higher order animals, males stand out for their beauty and elegance. I have a feeling that is somewhat vain, except for mating purpose.
Mar 21 2013: Pabitra....I agree....agree.....agree.....agree............
Better looking Pabitra? I'm looking at your photo....guess it depends on what "tribe" one is a members of:>)Mar 21 2013: :) Thanks. This is honestly how I feel, no flattery. I wish we could start afresh from the 'tribe' you see in my picture from 4 to 7 million years ago.
Mar 21 2013: I don't think it is possible to go back that far Pabitra my friend. What we CAN do, as individuals, is remember that every day is the first day of the rest of our lives. So, if there is something we would like to change, the time is now:>)Mar 21 2013: True. What I am changing now is the necessity. It's a brief sojourn so I shall travel light.
Mar 21 2013: Dear Pabitra,
I have discovered that the life journey is more enjoyable when we "travel light":>)Mar 22 2013: Dear Pat,
Men cry too and when they actually do that and show their emotions they also tend to attract women. I don't know any child, girl or dame who would say "I saw him crying, that means he's weak and manipulative." Doesn't seem too plausible. Manifestation of grief? For a child not getting a candy may lead to grief. For a woman not getting a hug may lead to grief. Please define grief :)
And tears are used by males in other species as well. When males in some species of rodents (I don't remember which ones, sorry) put their own tears on their fur they attract the females who become more likely to get into the state of "lordosis" around them - the position in which a female rodent lifts her tail and is ready to mate.
So - tears have a role in evolution :) In alienation - getting rid of surplus emotions. Among others in the tribe - getting rid of surplus emotions and sometimes getting something. Or not getting anything and being called weak and manipulative :) And with less evolved beings - getting a sexual partner.Mar 21 2013: I think, the question is loaded. It presumes that if we possess some ability, it must have advantage for our survival. I've often heard evolutionists say things like "human emotions are programmed by evolution" as if evolution has any will to give us features and abilities that help us survive. Aren't adaptations and mutations just random events? How did humans evolve freckles or red curly hair?
"Does the ability to cry have any advantages?" or "why should we have it?" also seems to be an irrelevant question to explain why we have it. We don't have everything we think we "should have" (e.g. it might be cool to have an RF sensor built into our brain) and we often have things that we shouldn't (cancer, for example).
From evolutionary standpoint, the only question that seems to makes sense is "can it lead to our extinction?" If the answer is "no", then there is no reason why we shouldn't have it.
Mar 21 2013: lets assume we dont get exinct if we lose the ability to cry. That means at some point in the future, tear glands become unneccessary for our survival, rendering it useless. we have seen humans lose vestigial(useless) organs which all humans are still born with the appendix. It was believed our ancestors had a vegeterian(herbivore) diet and the appendix helped digest the food. Now we are omnivores and we dont need complex organs for digesting plants; but we are still born with it! Meaning that if we lose the ability to cry, it will take thousands of generations until we would see a complete removal of the tear glands.
crying moisturizes the eye. Ancient Earth was all water and oceans. Organisms with eyesight during ancient earth are used to the abundance of water around their eyes and entire bodies. When Land appeared and organisms had to deal with their loss of habitat by adapting to a dryer environment, i.e. Land. So tear glands may be an adaptation to keep vision healthy by keeping the eye as close to the moisture it was used to in Ancient Earth.Mar 20 2013: I'm gonna try to give an educated guess. Crying happens on different scenarios for different reasons. Your eyes tear when a needle pinches you, when dust particles enter the eye, and also when someone hurts you emotionally.
Crying or tearing is a common response to physical or/and emotional pain. When you something external acts on your body, it reacts. Physical pain: tears and crying are involuntary, so when you cry from pain, your body is going on defense mode, it wants to relieve the pain and wants it to go away. The chemical reactions in the brain that trigger crying might also reduce the pain as byproduct. However , crying's function may differ with stages in life. Infants for instance, cry when their body is in NEED of something i.e. food, diaper change, sleep >>> all for one thing, healthy upbringing, survival and to bring offspring. another stage in human's lives, lets say (2-7yrs old), you often see them cry more when they are denied something they want (candy) rather than physical pain. when they cry they range from cute convincing watery eyes to volatile annoying tantrums. Well I'd say they get their way 50-50, but thats not essential for survival as in infants. So why do they cry when they want something? I really don't know, but if I had to say, its the human's obsession with instant gratification. If you always get what you want, you are happy and you have a brain full of Dopamine(happy chemical), it could possibly also mean a healthier brain and body. Thirdly, eyes tear when dust or other foreign particles enter the eye. The tears gather all the foreign objects and mechanically by gravity leave your eye, and clearing your eyes from any risk of disease. I have no knowledge of how tears evolved from species to species. All this infromation I wrote might be completely false. I am only typing this from my head. kinda went with the flow of this website. whew... this is my first on this website, pretty inspiring..
John Gianino
Mar 16 2013: Tears are made to wash the windows to our souls.Mar 15 2013: I would say the advantage is the immediate reaction from others. When you see someone cry, you immediately know something is wrong and usually try to help them. And also many people cry loudly. If we were a group of nomadic hunters (for example) and someone got attacked, hurt, or fell, they would cry and surely someone would stop and go back to help. Empathy is what keeps the human race together and surviving. If nobody cared about anyone else, nobody would invent medicine, vaccinations, become doctors, teachers, mothers or fathers!Mar 21 2013: the ability to cry is absolutely healthy and simply part of being human. the suppression of the feelings that would cause one to cry is what's unhealthy, to my and many other's opinion actually the root of every physical manifestation of pain or dis-ease. Crying in itself can have many different emotional, social, physical, mental and energetic purposes and expressions. In its most "useful", pure form it serves the purpose of releasing blocked energy and for babies and children to communicate their needs and emotional states in order to receive the care and attention that they need to survive and develop successfully into a healthy social being with the ability to manage external as well as internal matters independently.
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very interesting and understandable information on the physical aspect by Sue Gerhardt in her book "Why love matters" http://www.whylovematters.com/
or on a bit of a strange page but a nice text http://www.reconnections.net/emotions_index.htm
or by a rather controversial person but with quite some depth to what he has to say about emotions in general http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tf0LfgQdg8&list=PL74BB47660A6A105B&index=32
there are so many different takes on the matter of crying and emotions, but it all comes down to the one thing: suppressing them is not healthy and only serves the purpose of fitting in, appearing normal, feeling safe.
exploring ones own emotions can be a somewhat confusing or frightening experience at first but the moments we decide to embrace them fully are the moments when we are really alive! And it's only gonna get better, there are nice emotions too ;-D every emotion is a good emotion, it just depends on our beliefs about the emotion, such as "a man shouldn't cry or be vulnerable, especially not in front of others", whether we can allow ourselves and others to express whatever needs to be expressed in that moment.
So, that would be my take on this,
nice thread :)Mar 21 2013: "I've never been the kind to ever let my feelings show
And I thought that bein' strong meant never losin' your self-control
But I'm just drunk enough to let go of my pain
To hell with my pride, let it fall like rain
From my eyes
Tonight I wanna cry"
Mar 22 2013: "Without emotions, without feelings, without love, without hate breath is just a clock - ticking." - from Equilibrium the movie, a dystopia in which all human beings in the system are forced to take drugs to completely de-emotionalise themselves and become only rational. Those who oppose this are hunted down. Nice film.
Mar 22 2013: I shall find the film. But I am already too far gone down the unreasoning, illogical life to appreciate the value of tears. Thanks.Mar 21 2013: At the early stages in life, crying is for displaying discomfort to grab attention. As people grow older, they discover it can be used as a defense mechanism among other homo sapiens, like crying to make someone empathize with the pain the other person caused you. Crying is a healing exercise, but that idea has more of a spiritual attachment, though some scientists may agree with this idea.
Crying by itself is a sexless trait, but socially, females are associated more with crying, though I've seen plenty of men cry and not from any physical pain either.
Wario H
Mar 20 2013: In crying we;
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1. Learn the art of letting go. Crying is perceived as the ultimate sign of breakdown and in the perception a lot of truth is held. Crying is an expression of an extreme emotion. It could be joy, laughter, pain or excitement. Crying describes the most inner and until we let ourselves cry it out we haven't reached the end of the emotion.
2. Crying reminds us we are human and we are not perfect. It reminds us that it is OK to fall or fail sometimes. In so doing we develop thick skin, we develop risk taking hearts. We stop being afraid of falling or failing and take on life with huge strides.
3. Crying stops the world from wanting to know you. Often, we find ourselves wanting to understand why abc is so thick/ hard and wont break, we pursue to understand underlying issues even when none exists. The moment they cry we sort of discover an aha moment our minds frame that they are human and so we stop trying to dig in them.
Mar 21 2013: interesting essay, but i'm curious as to how you think this answers the question?Mar 16 2013: I've found that when i'm truly affected by a sad event in my life, as in the passing of a child or a loved one I freeze, my body becomes like stone, a statue with water flowing down it's cheeks. No emotion, just a torrent of silent unbroken tears and i think a lot of men cry this way. In those moments women always want to grab me and sob that gut wrenching cry that can grip a person when all i want to do is walk away but can't move, it's like stone.
Daniel Gero
Mar 16 2013: I have had similar reactions to the passing of friends - silent, lack of emotion. For me, however, the tears didn't seem to come until later at some random moment of reflection.
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Ken brown
Mar 16 2013: It's a cultural thing for me and my people to gather together for a few days and live with the loved one that is gone. It' helps the children come to terms with what happens and during this period is when a lot of emotion comes to the surface as well as the stories and the jokes of the good times. We joke a lot and recant the naughty times. Most come away from it with something they never knew about the person, by the time it's finished you're so worn out that all you want to do is sleep and begin again.
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Mar 16 2013: Hello Ken:>)
Do you think/feel that the whole process of gathering, coming together, sharing jokes and stories sets the stage for people to be genuinely vulnerable to each other, which facilitates coming away from the event with something you may not have known about the other person? Do you think/feel that it may create a "safe" place to share the deepest feelings?Mar 16 2013: If you cry pretty, you can be an actress LOL
You can just catch the moment of being sad or miserable.
Crying is like laughing although both seem contradictory.
I from time to time try to embrace the moment of crying—or sobbing.
It often helps me come up with words to describe my feelings uniquely and precisely when writing stuffs.
Or… it could be a good inspiration to you.
Just like drinking coffee, you can just taste what it is to cry and what it is to feel sad or extremely happy.
Crying is the most humanlike action.
Although we might not like the feeling of crying—it's bitter anyway, the action of crying plainly shows your vulnerability, and your inner-self constantly reminds you that this is also part of "you" whether you'd like to acknowledge that or not.
Thinking big, I know the ability to cry makes you realize so many things about your life and further, the world with a healthy dose of bitterness.
Daniel Gero
Mar 16 2013: Great point - crying is like laughing. Both are a release, and who hasn't had to wipe their eyes after a good laugh?Mar 16 2013: good questions but i am simply theorizing where we evolved it from not how it has evolved in modern humans yes you are right we do all of that for many different reasons shame being one of the strongest among themMar 15 2013: yes you do unless you do not like them and in someway wish harm or simply don't know them because then you ignore their pleas for pity but crying does call for pity i don't how you can't see that and AHHHH i Know! im not talking about now days i'm talking about evolution here because yes you are right because in "modern" times we are more accepting of emitting emotions and almost want and call for itMar 15 2013: yes artificial pity we all feel it when someone is crying and often that is their goal to make you feel bad for them which in turn aids them in whatever their own moral wants and desires are and yes i understand that it isn't just women that cry that's why i said weaker individuals i am talking about how we evolved it not what it is presently i'm just proposing that crying is just a defense mechanism for when only the strongest had their way and the weaker individuals had no say because it was a world where physical strength prevailed over all else and strength has always been dominant in men
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Mar 15 2013: Charles,
We do not ALL feel "artificial pity" when someone is crying.....sorry you feel that way. And it is not just "weaker individuals" who cry.
Ken brown
Mar 18 2013: Hi Colleen, just answering your Q's from my comments here. It's hard to explain as I've grown up with this tradition, so it is normal for me. We don't talk about our feelings as it is written on our faces and in the tears, there is a lot of ceremony as well and that can get in the way if the person is publicly respected by a large group but generally a persons personal memory of an embarrassing or funny moment they shared with the person laying in state tells us just how close they were to them, it's their way of showing their pain and it is never written down as a speech. Pending on how close you are to the loved one, you stand up in front of everyone where ever you may be sitting in one of our halls and it just flows, it can get a bit flowery but the best ones are the funny stories. Some cannot finish as they might be overwhelmed. It's in the stories we share that connects you to the deceased. A window that you never knew was there.
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Even in this digital age, actually physically being there listening to the stories pulls you in. Our white kiwi's have adopted the funny story telling even if they have never been to one of ours, i have been to many a white friends gathering and have laughed til i cried, it's become cultural for them as well.
We sing a lot, whatever you may know, the song is usually the finisher for your talk, a stamping of your story. Sealed with a song. Sorry Colleen if i'm not making sense, i really don't know how else to explain it in English.
Mar 20 2013: Thanks Ken....sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I felt touched by your comment, which is why I asked the questions, and I feel touched by this one as well:>)
I think many times when we know people really well, and have shared many of the same life adventures, talking is not really needed....there is an understanding that is felt on a very deep level.....I experience that feeling with some friends.
We have a similar practice at funerals here too....people in the audience are often invited to speak if they wish to. Somtimes people have written something down prior to the event, and sometimes not....it is a choice. I notice that often, however, a person who has written something down ignores it and just speaks from the heart in the moment. Sometimes, they are crying so much they cannot read the previously written words.
You make a LOT of sense Ken, and your telling of the experience in the way you do so well, causes me to feel like I am there.....thank you:>)
Daniel Gero
Mar 16 2013: I think it's worth clarifying here that there is a difference between bawling like a baby because you stubbed your toe, and crying because something devastatingly sad happened.
- +1
I also don't think it is a means of getting artificial pity, though some people may use it as manipulation for various reasons. If this were the case, why then would people choke back their tears? Why would they cry by themselves? Why would they be scared of being seen crying?
Mar 16 2013: You make an interesting point.
- +1
However, tears may come at the most unexpected times due to deep deep sorrow.
It is not always a sign of weakness.
What is even more incredible is that holding back tears may even do you harm. Did you know that?
Attached is an article you might enjoy reading.
[EDITED: I was just wondering why you have suddenly decided to start writing without the use of proper grammar and proper punctuation...it makes it hard to read your comments....??]Mar 15 2013: well perhaps it's just simply a good signal to others of distress but that doesn't explain why it would evolve perhaps it is a way of producing artificial pity in other humans which would be a required skill for females or a weaker individual as to not be damaged by stronger individuals but even that still doesn't answer the question of why the eyes were the choice of evolution for this trait why wouldn't we just frown or drool instead of crying perhaps it developed just as a simple cleaning tool for the eye (which it actually is) and was somehow connected to our emotions long ago because not only would it produce pity but it would also cleaned lubricate the eye when performed or another idea is that crying is just the pain connected to when we get something in our eyes and it waters and the body just connected those two because of the shared trait of pain
Mar 15 2013: Charles,
"Artificial pity"? What??? "Required skills for females or weaker individuals"??? That is a myth that it is only females and weaker individuals who cry. I've seen some pretty strong men cry, and I believe it is a strength.Mar 15 2013: For men maybe but that because it has been Rote taught not to cry. However crying is a great why to emotional release. You have to unlearn it not out evolve itMar 15 2013: When I think about evolving the ability to cry, a certain sociological pattern comes to mind: the difference between crying women and men. This article http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/he-speaks-she-speaks/201101/the-crying-game brings up some fascinating dilemmas we all relate to. Crying can be a very honest and natural experience, like blushing. So it is important to recognize the time that crying becomes more of a psychological complication rather than something that we do not try to control. The culture that I see all around me glorifies tough and unemotional men. Feminism has at times been portrayed as women trying to be tough and unemotional, like men. But this is all bullshit really. Paralyzing to the evolution of an emotionally mature individual is this idea that crying portrays weakness. What needs improvement is the societal norm. If men and women were able to cry without shame, I think a better balance would come to how the two genders interact with each other, and how people see themselves as individuals apart from cliches.Mar 15 2013: Colleen,
Dogs have empathy link: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201206/canine-empathy-your-dog-really-does-care-if-you-are-unhappy
Cat are evil link: http://www.cracked.com/article/226_6-adorable-cat-behaviors-with-shockingly-evil-explanations/
Science has pretty much spoken on cats versus dogs.
Smiling, laughing, crying have effects because an emotion is not an abstract thought in your mind, but exists as part of your entire mind-body state. Smiling can actually cause you to be happy because part of the emotion of happiness is smiling. Another example, is deep breathing to stop yourself from being angry. You adjust the physical part of the anger and that affects the anger. So part of the emotion is the physical experience of the emotion.
Botox link: http://www.webmd.com/healthy-beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions
So evolutionarily speaking I guess you could say that smiling, laughing, crying allow us to feel deeper and richer emotions, but I wanted to point out that the ability to understand and communicate these emotions is an advantage.
Mar 15 2013: William,
You do not have to convince me. I've been "owned" by many dogs and cats throughout my lifetime. I have experience with their personalities:>)Mar 15 2013: Crying is healing, and as Random points out, can be joyful and/or sad. I don't think it is a matter of "evolving the ability" because it is natural. What needs to happen sometimes is people need to allow themselves to cry.....it is a good thing when/if that is what the body/mind is needing:>)
Mar 15 2013: yes but your not getting the question he is wondering why we Evolved the ability unlike other creatures who do not cry
Mar 15 2013: Charles,
Other creatures DO cry. Ask a Mahout about elephants!
Mar 20 2013: ok thanks i know that but when was the last time you saw an ant cry or an iguana? not all creatures cry it's a fact i'm just wondering why some cry and others don't and for some reason i have a feeling that you don't think evolution is fact am i right?Mar 20 2013: I have experienced a Labrador dog, a farm dog with a loyal and strong nature, - her eyes welled up with tears and sadness on a occasion of remembering her mother, who had just died. The story is too long to explain here, but there was no doubt about it. There was another occasion too when this same dog 's eyes welled up in sympathy.
Mar 20 2013: I have had several different breeds of dogs throughout my life, including a golden lab, which seemed to be the MOST sensitive of any. He was like one of the kids:>)Mar 21 2013: Hi Charles:>)
I've observed LOTS of ants and iguana, including the giant iguana in the Galapagos (fabulous experience BTW), and I've never observed them crying, so I don't know about those examples. It does appear that some animals DO cry, and I'm curious about why some do and some don't too!
I believe in evolution. How did you get the feeling that I don't think evolution is fact?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animalsMar 15 2013: Crying is a complex secretomotor phenomenon characterized by the shedding of tears from the lacrimal apparatus, without any irritation of the ocular structures. Advantages unknown. Possibly, a social influence of a belief that it can relieve one of intense emotional sensation.
I believe crying is essentially a developed brain function of certain higher order animals that releases few hormones to inhibit neurotic overdrive. The immediate advantage is health related with secondary advantages like non-verbal communication for anger, frustration, appeal for help, fear or deep/spiritual joy, which is a social trait. I think crying is also a necessary neonatal exercise to jump start cardiovascular and breathing functions for human babies who don't start moving immediately after birth.
In brief crying is advantageous for survival both biologically and socially.Mar 15 2013: Crying can be both joyful and sad.
Answer this: do you know what it is like to feel joy?
Overwhelming joy?
Did you ever,
stand and shiver?
Just because you were looking at a river?
As I've aged, I found crying to be intimately connected to laughing in a most unusual way.
For lack of a better word, that word being god so please excuse my use of it, I think more of the power, beauty, knowledge, compassion, connections, emotions and love that can be a part of our lives and are also intimately connected and part of us humans almost like air.
So, to me, to cry, is to let more of those things in (god) and to laugh is let more of those things (god) out.
It's almost like breathing.
Well, it is in fact.Mar 15 2013: It's simple natural selection, babies that cry gets more attention from the mothers, thus they get fed more. Babies that don't are fed less thus developing into weaker individuals and you know what happens to them... When we grow older though the significance of that becomes less but it carries on, at the end crying becomes one of the many expressions we use to communicate with each other, it's not that different from laughing which is to say "I'm happy", crying simply expresses "I'm sad".


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The future of the ski experience is getting personal at Mountain High. You now have the ability to customize your day with new VIP options such as preferred parking, lift line cutting, concierge booking services, and photo souvenirs.
Track your day on the mountain
Overview of Mountain High
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In the News
Original journalism from the Center's OpenSecrets Blog
Wall Street's Investments in Deregulation
January 14, 2015 | Wall Street did its part to make 2014 the most expensive midterm election ever, outpacing its 2010 total and once again putting the bulk of its financial muscle behind GOP candidates and groups. Donors from the securities and investment industry, otherwise known as Wall Street, contributed a total of $184 million to candidates, parties and outside…
Goldman May Hear Harsh Words at Hearing, But Has Backed Many on Panel
November 20, 2014 | As Goldman Sachs prepares for more unwelcome publicity tomorrow at a Senate Banking Committee hearing, these things are certain: The financial giant's many lobbyists will be working in overdrive, and the company's million-dollar PAC will be considering writing checks to a host of lawmakers — some of them on the House or Senate Banking Committees.…
One GOP Consultant, Two Campaigns and a Snarl of Outside Groups
July 28, 2014 | Bruce Rauner is a Chicago billionaire who has never held political office, yet this spring he mowed down a crowd of rivals and claimed the GOP nomination to be Illinois' next governor. David Perdue is a wealthy former executive who also has never been elected to public office, yet he too knocked off a string…
An Encore for the Center to Protect Patient Rights
March 5, 2014 | Sean Noble's mammoth group -- which since 2009 has funneled $170 million-plus to conservative organizations involved in politicking -- seemed to be on the outs last year with its main backers. Now, say hello to American Encore.
Back-to-College Special: Academic Contributions Aren't Just Cerebral
August 29, 2013 | President Obama might hope that his new education initiative doesn't rile too many in academia: By reputation, college professors and staff members are solid Democrats, and a deeper look at their campaign contributions by the Center for Responsive Politics mostly backs that up -- though certain types of schools tend to skew more left than others.
Billion Dollar Baby: U.S. Chamber is First to Hit Lobbying Milestone
July 23, 2013 | The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has spent more than $1 billion lobbying members of Congress and other officials since 1998 - by far a greater amount than any other organization over the period. The Chamber has no rivals in terms of raw resources devoted to lobbying - and may also have little competition when it comes to overall influence on the Hill.
The Money in the Great Ape Debate
July 11, 2013 | Animal welfare groups recently won a major victory when the head of the National Institutes of Health announced the agency would significantly curtail its use of great apes in scientific research. NIH's action follows the failure of congressional legislation in a climate where animal rights groups could never keep up with groups -- including drugmakers -- that opposed the bill, particularly when it came to spending on lobbying and campaign contributions.
Computer Industry, Unions Big Donors to Immigration Bill Supporters
June 24, 2013 | Senators who voted for cloture on a key amendment to the comprehensive immigration overhaul bill tended to receive much more money from the computer industry, human rights groups and labor unions. The 27 senators who voted against the amendment, which strengthens border security but is also a step towards passing the overall immigration package, on average received very little money from those three types of groups, but did receive heavy support from donors in the agribusiness industry.
Capital Eye Opener, Feb. 28: Feingold PAC Slams Obama's OFA, Southern Co. to Close Gov't Deal After Donation
February 28, 2013 | A fellow Democrat, though a sometimes wayward one, skewers the Obama group's fundraising plans. And Southern Co. is close to closing its $8.3 billion loan guarantee deal with the government. Oh yes, and recently it gave $100,000 to Obama's inaugural committee.
The Politics of Super Bowl XLVII
February 1, 2013 | NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and the top brass of the San Francisco 49ers and the Baltimore Ravens tilt Republican, though not dramatically. The same goes for the extremely well-funded NFL Gridiron PAC.
Retired Lawmaker Moves on to Lobbying, Running a PAC
January 10, 2013 | Now that Rep. Steve LaTourette has retired after 18 years in Congress, he's moving through the revolving door to open a government affairs branch for a business-oriented law firm. He'll also run a PAC that favors moderate Republicans, and plans to start a super PAC affiliate.
Soft Cash Changes Hands Between Crossroads GPS and the NRA
December 17, 2012 | In its shadow money investigation, the Center for Responsive Politics came across a $600,000 donation from Crossroads GPS going into the pockets of the National Rifle Association's 501(c)(4) group.
Exclusive: Center to Protect Patient Rights Gave Millions in 2011 to Outside Spenders in Election
December 17, 2012 | A new filing by the Center to Protect Patient Rights shows the group, a secretive 501(c)(4) nonprofit, gave millions to other groups that spent heavily on ads in the 2012 election cycle.
Capital Eye Opener, Dec. 17: Manchin on Gun Control, S.C.'s New Senator and More
December 17, 2012 | West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin (D) is one of the few Democrats who receives campaign cash from the National Rifle Association, but this morning he said he was ready to talk about gun control.
Gun Rights Groups' Political Spending Crushes That of Gun Control Supporters
December 14, 2012 | When it comes to lobbying, campaign contributions and outside spending, pro-gun rights groups are light years ahead of those that support stronger gun control. The NRA accounts for most of the spending.
Capital Eye Opener, Nov. 22: Thanksgiving Special
November 22, 2012 | The Macy's parade, the turkey and trimmings -- there's a money-and-politics aspect to all of it. Happy Thanksgiving!
Lawyers Win Big While Wall Street Splits the Difference
November 15, 2012 | Lawyers and lobbyists invested their contributions in winners to a far greater degree than did Wall Street, health professionals, and the real estate industry.
Crossroads' $175 Million Strikeout
November 8, 2012 | As a super PAC, American Crossroads was responsible for about $105 million of the total $631 million spent on independent expenditures by super PACs in the 2012 election cycle -- but it came out on the winning side just 21 percent of the time. Crossroads GPS spent more than $70 million on top of that and had a success rate that was only slightly better -- just 29 percent.
Blue Team Aided by Small Donors, Big Bundlers; Huge Outside Spending Still Comes Up Short
November 7, 2012 | President Barack Obama clinched a second term last night relying on many of the same campaign finance tools he used in his pre-Citizens United victory in 2008: party support and an in-house campaign finance operation that turned to individual donors and a web of elite bundlers to expand its reach. He received comparatively little help from outside spending groups. But that's not to say super PACs and secretive nonprofit groups had no influence on the election -- although they heavily favored conservative candidates, many of whom lost, they created an arms race that helped drive the cost of election to record levels.
Capital Eye Opener, Nov. 7 (The Day After): Incumbents Who Dominated Both Money and Votes, FreedomWorks' Bad Day, and More
November 7, 2012 | Some incumbents blew their challengers right off the field with both fundraising and vote-getting. Also, FreedomWorks strikes out in the races where it spent the most money.
Shadow Money's Top 10 Candidates
October 25, 2012 | Never before has so much outside money been dispensed in an election cycle. Likewise, never before has so much spending been done by outside groups that don't disclose the identities of their donors: Their outlays broke $200 million this week. Here, we give you the top 10 candidates attracting shadow money attention.
Capital Eye Opener, Oct. 2: Small State is VP Hub, Aurora Survivor in Ad, and More
October 2, 2012 | Joe Biden and Paul Ryan both visit Connecticut in search of cash, and Mayor Bloomberg's pro-gun control PAC runs ad featuring an Aurora survivor.
Capital Eye Opener August 30: Gabby PAC, What GOP Donors Want, and the NRA Fires Again
August 30, 2012 | Gabrielle Giffords re-enters politics with a PAC. Meanwhile, policy changes that would help Sheldon Adelson, Harold Simmons and other major political investors.
Capital Eye Opener, Aug. 9: Mayors' Group Discloses Donors, GOP Senators Want IRS to Back Down and Outside Groups Blitz Sherrod Brown
August 9, 2012 | A court case requiring groups running electioneering communications to disclose their donors sees its first fruit. Republican senators want to be sure the IRS doesn't crack down on nondisclosing groups before the election. And Sen. Sherrod Brown's pounding by outside groups helps shrink his lead in Ohio.
A Heartbeat Away? The Money-and-Politics Veepstakes: Marco Rubio
July 6, 2012 | After riding an anti-establishment Tea Party wave into office in 2010, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) has gone from being a relatively unknown state representative to a potential vice presidential pick in just two short years. Although some have reported that GOP candidate Mitt Romney is not vetting Rubio, the campaign insists it is considering the 41-year-old Florida native for the VP slot.
Supreme Court Decision = Fundraising Opportunity!
June 29, 2012 | It didn't take long. Almost as soon as the U.S. Supreme Court issued its 5-4 decision upholding President Barack Obama's signature health care law yesterday morning, politicos from both sides of the aisle moved into strategy mode, flooding the Internet and supporters' inboxes with fundraising appeals meant to capitalize on the momentous decision.
Nonprofits Outspent Super PACs in 2010
June 18, 2012 | A joint investigation by the Center for Public Integrity and the Center for Responsive Politics has found that more than 100 nonprofits organized under section 501(c)(4) of the U.S. tax code spent roughly $95 million on political expenditures in the 2010 election compared with $65 million by super PACs.
Congress' 2011 Personal Financial Records Released
June 14, 2012 | How many U.S. congressional representatives have invested recently in JPMorgan Chase? How many House members hold stock in Apple? And just how rich are your senators? The public got at least a glimpse at some of these answers this morning.
Many Lawmakers Personally Invested in JPMorgan Chase
May 17, 2012 | Republicans and Democrats rushed this week to argue that stronger government regulation would or wouldn't have forestalled JPMorgan Chase's multibillion dollar losses. But they didn't mention whether they owned shares in the bank themselves. At least 38 of them do.
In a Familiar Refrain, Music Industry Heavily Supports Dems
April 19, 2012 | The music industry a whole has long been a solid supporter of the Democratic Party. See what musicians are giving money in this election cycle, and who has given the most among musicians.
Labor Unions' Big Win in Ohio, Google's DC Head Retires And More in Capital Eye Opener: November 9
November 9, 2011 | Voters in Ohio last night went to the polls and enacted a referendum to repeal a law that restricted the collective bargaining rights of many of the state's public sector employees. Many of the biggest public sector unions spent heavily in Ohio to influence turnout. And they also spend plenty of dollars on influence in Washington, D.C.
9-9-9 Architect Once Backed Romney, American Crossroads' Bold Request and More in Capital Eye Opener: Oct. 14
October 14, 2011 | Richard Lowrie, Jr., a Wells Fargo financial analyst in a small town in Ohio, is the man behind Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan. In 2008, Lowrie contributed the legal maximum of $2,300 to Romney's presidential campaign, according to research by the Center for Responsive Politics. So far this year, he's only given $500 to Cain.
Bachmann Hires Former Gingrich Staffers, NASA in Lobbying Crosshairs and More in Capital Eye Opener: July 11
July 11, 2011 | Two former campaign fund-raisers for Newt Gingrich are now working for the presidential campaign of Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), the New York Times reported.
January Fund-Raising Mania, Secret Holds Die and More in Capital Eye Opener: January 31
January 31, 2011 | Your daily dose of news and tidbits from the world of money in politics.
Will Political Cash Determine Next Senate Majority Leader?
October 31, 2010 | Behind the scenes, several current senators have been pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into the campaign coffers of fellow Democratic candidates. Could these big givers be positioning themselves to man the helm of the Senate Democratic caucus if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid falls to Republican challenger Sharron Angle?
Senators Who Pocket Money From Foreign-Connected PACs Fight Against International Influence in Elections
October 28, 2010 | Last week Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) sent a letter, co-signed by 14 other Democratic senators, to the Federal Election Commission, requesting that they "repair and strengthen protections against foreign influence of American elections." But how deep does their desire to strengthen protections against foreign influence go?
Insurgent Candidates See Electoral Success in Hot Senate Races
May 19, 2010 | Massive campaign war chests and establishment endorsements were not enough to be victorious in some of the country's most contested Senate primaries Tuesday night. One sitting Senator was defeated and another is heading to a run-off in three weeks, as candidates worked to distance themselves from Washington and position themselves as crusaders against special interests in charged anti-incumbent environments.
Arlen Specter, Barack Obama — Cognizant of Labor's Financial Support — Address AFL-CIO
September 15, 2009 | In a speech to the AFL-CIO in Pittsburgh today, Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Pa.), told union members that he and a group of senators are successfully compromising with labor leaders on the industry's legislative priority, the Employee Free Choice Act. Democrats have overwhelmingly received more financial support from unions, though Specter did not mention whether the legislation's key provision would be part of the deal.
Lawyers, Doctors, Give Cash to Sway Tort Reform Elements in Health Care Debate
September 8, 2009 | When President Barack Obama gives his much-anticipated speech about health care Wednesday night before a joint session of Congress, he won't likely address medical malpractice reform, much to the chagrin of the country's doctors. Given that health professionals are the second largest contributor this election cycle to candidates and party committees, they might feel slighted by the president's omission.
Some Politicos Distance Themselves From Embattled Hassan Nemazee, But Not All. Yet.
August 26, 2009 | Embattled political financier Hassan Nemazee, who faces decades in prison after federal authorities arrested him for allegedly attempting to secure a fradulent loan from Citigroup, has donated money to 75 federal political candidates, a Center for Responsive Politics analysis indicates.
HELP Committee Members Opposing Health Bill Backed By Insurers, Pharma
July 15, 2009 | Members of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, who opposed a version of health care reform that the panel passed today, have on average received more money from the industries fighting against the measure's public health plan component than those who voted "yes."
Committee Members Speak Out–Or Stay Mum–On Health Care
July 9, 2009 | Over the past three weeks, Capital Eye has contacted members of five Capitol Hill committees responsible for drafting health care reform legislation this summer. Here are their responses (and non-responses) and the money they're collecting from various industries.
Tracking Your Representatives' Health Care Cash
June 25, 2009 | Here's a cool tool that brings together data from various parts of OpenSecrets.org to show how much money each current lawmaker has raised from various health-related industries and the health sector overall since 1989 (including President Obama's haul).
Power Players: Winning Union Cash Easy Work for Chair of Labor Committee
March 26, 2009 | Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) became chair of the House Education & Labor Committee in 2007, after serving as ranking member for six years before Democrats won control of the House. Whether it's because he has played a prominent role on the committee for years or because he has dedicated himself to workers' issues, unions are unabashed supporters of the congressman.
Embattled Lobbying Firm PMA Targeted Members of Defense Committees
February 12, 2009 | The close ties between Rep. John Murtha and a Washington lobbying firm raided by the FBI have put the powerful Pennsylvania Democrat under greater scrutiny. The lobbyists at PMA Group have been Murtha's fifth most generous campaign donor over time, but he is just one of 284 members of the 111th Congress who have collected money from the firm, which specializes in securing federal earmarks for its clients. In total, PMA Group's employees and its political action committee have given current members of Congress $3.4 million since 1989.
Money and Votes Aligned in Congress's Last Debate Over Bank Regulation
September 23, 2008 | The last time Congress seriously debated how to regulate the financial industry, the result was legislation that allowed the nation's largest banks to get even larger and take risks that had been prohibited since the Great Depression. A look back at that debate, which was over the 1999 Financial Services Modernization Act, reveals that campaign contributions may have influenced the votes of politicians who, a decade later, are now grappling with the implosion of the giant banks they helped to foster.
Brothers Grim: Is Lehman Next?
September 12, 2008 | Uncle Sam bailed out Freddie Mac and the company's twin sister, Fannie Mae, this week, and the next in line in the Wall Street family to get a helping hand might just be Lehman Brothers. Executives at the struggling investment bank are looking to sell the company with assistance from the government--and fast--as its stock plunges. Although the government isn't expected to completely bail out Lehman Brothers, the fourth-largest U.S. investment bank, the company has built a strong financial relationship with politicians over the years and coincidentally ranks fourth in the largest contributors in the race for the White House.
Update: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers
September 11, 2008 | When the federal government announced two months ago that it would be seizing mortgage buyers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, CRP looked at how much money members of Congress had collected since 1989 from the companies. On Sunday the government proceeded with the takeover and we've returned to our data to bring you the updates, this time providing a list of all 354 lawmakers who have gotten money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (in July we posted the top 25).
Superdelegate Update
February 28, 2008 | In an update to Capital Eye's Feb. 14 report, campaign contributions from Obama and Clinton now total nearly $950,000 and have predicted endorsements about 80 percent of the time.
And the Political Contribution Goes To…
February 28, 2007 | This year's Oscar nominees weren't especially active political givers in the last election cycle, but the larger entertainment industry was. By Lindsay Renick Mayer February 28, 2007 | (This story has been corrected to reflect Martin Scorsese's best director win for "The Departed," as well as the director's political contributions.) Academy Awards acceptance speeches have…
2006 Election Analysis: Incumbents Linked to Corruption Lose, but Money Still Wins
November 8, 2006 | While voters in some states are still waiting to see who will represent them in Congress, one thing is certain: Money was a clear winner in the 2006 elections. Equally clear was voters' concern about corruption in Washington; officeholders tied to scandal lost in disproportionate numbers.
A New Battleground
March 8, 2006 | War veterans try to topple congressional incumbents and their bigger war chests By Courtney Mabeus March 08, 2006 | To raise money for his congressional campaign in Minnesota, Tim Walz first had to learn how to sell himself. It's a skill he didn't have much need for in 24 years as a national guardsman, but,…
Feel free to distribute or cite this material, but please credit the Center for Responsive Politics. For permission to reprint for commercial uses, such as textbooks, contact the Center.


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Gallagher's Pub & Grill
"The Real Irish Pub Experience"
When looking for a great Irish pub that conjures up thoughts of a fun and an exciting atmosphere... or, a place where neighborhood locals share the bar with fresh new faces. With Irish hospitality, Irish Beers, and traditional Irish fare Gallagher's is the place to be. Burgers and daily specials available
|Irish Pub
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|90801 90802 90803 90804 90805 90806 90807 90808 90809 90810 90813 90814 90815 90822 90831 90832 90833 90834 90835 90840 90842 90844 90845 90846 90847 90848 90853 90888 90899
|4th Street Corridor, Alamitos Beach, Alamitos Heights, Arlington, Artcraft Manor, Belmont Heights, Belmont Park, Belmont Shore, Bixby Knolls, Bixby Village, Bluff Heights, Bluff Park, Broadway Corridor, California Heights, Carroll Park, Central Area, Craftsman Village, Downtown Long Beach, Drake Park, East Village, Eastside, El Dorado Park, El Dorado Park Estates, El Dorado South, Hellman, Imperial Estates, Lakewood Village, Cambodia Town (Little Phnom Penh), Long Beach Marina, Los Altos, Los Cerritos - Vrginia Country Club, Memorial Height, Naples, North Long Beach, Park Estates,[13], Peninsula, Ranchos, Rose Park, Shoreline Village, South of Conant, Stearns Park, Saint Mary's, Sunrise, Terminal Island, Traffic Circle, University Park Estates, Poly High, West Long Beach, Willmore City, Wrigley North and South, Wrigley Heights, Zaferia
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SAFETY ALERT: If you are in danger, please use a safer computer, or call 911, your local hotline, or the U.S. National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 and TTY 1-800-787-3224. See more technology safety tips here. There is always a computer trail, but you can leave this site quickly.
A free training for OVW grantees and other providers of domestic violence services for Latina survivors of Domestic Violence, including immigrant women.
There is broad recognition within the domestic violence movement that the lack of financial independence is a major barrier that contributes to keeping many victims/survivors in violent and abusive relationships. Acquiring financial knowledge can be a key step for the survival of many victims and their children.
Through this training, participants will have the opportunity to:
Alianza will be conducting one more Financial Independence for DV Survivors, probably in early fall. Once we get the location approved by OVW, we will post the location & dates, and open up the registration.
Alianza is not responsible for the information provided in any of the websites, books, videos or other resources published by any of the organizations or other entities listed.
Copyright © 2009 National Latino Alliance for the Elimination of Domestic Violence (Alianza), All Rights Reserved.
Web Implementation by Karmic Visions


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Home Compost Demonstration Site
Visit the Department's Home Composting Demonstration Center located in The Oregon Garden in Silverton. There you will find examples of many different types of home composting bins that you can use to make quality compost in your own backyard. There's information about each of these, as well as flyers on how to compost at home. It can help you decide which composter will work best for you.


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If you are seeing this, you have attempted to link to the UpToDate search box but are experiencing a problem. Please visit UpToDate for more information.
Featured E-Resource
EMBASE - All University of Miami students, faculty, and staff, and Jackson employees, can register for a personal Embase account that will facilitate use of all the tools embedded in the system.Previous Featured Resources
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Piaget Polo watch
Ref : Watch G0A30111
Piaget Polo tourbillon watch, 44 mm. Case in 18K white gold set with 86 baguette-cut diamonds (approx. 10.4 ct) and 327 brilliant-cut diamonds (approx. 7.7 ct). Blue mother-of-pearl dial set with 23 baguette-cut diamonds (approx. 1.2 ct) and 69 brilliant-cut diamonds (approx. 0.6 ct). Crown set with one brilliant-cut diamond (approx. 0.1 ct) and 12 baguette-cut diamonds (approx. 0.1 ct). Buckle set with 14 baguette-cut diamonds (approx. 1.5 ct) and 16 brilliant-cut diamonds (approx. 0.02 ct). Manufacture Piaget 600P hand-wound movement with power-reserve indicator, the thinnest shaped mechanical flying tourbillon movement in the world (3.5 mm thick). Numbered edition.
Metal: White gold
Metal weight (gr): 118.5
Strap type: Alligator
Strap colour: Blue
Strap buckle: Folding clasp
Case shape: Round
Case diameter: 44 mm
Dial material: Mother-of-pearl, Precious stones
Dial colour: Blue
Dial finishing: Gem set
Waterproofness: 03 ATM
Specificities: Small sapphire case back
Movement: Hand-wound mechanical
Precious stones: Diamond
Other material: White mother-of-pearl
Equipped with a tourbillon movement and bedecked in sparkling diamonds and mother-of-pearl, this dazzling creation is a marvellous demonstration of Piaget's twofold vocation as a creator positioned at the confluence of luxury watchmaking and Fine Jewellery. To recreate the specific aesthetics of the Piaget Polo collection, our master-jewellers have set the baguette-cut diamonds horizontally and vertically in an alternating pattern, thus creating a striking visual effect.
600P movement
The tourbillon is probably the most distinguished complication of the watchmaking art. The watchmaker Piaget has developed the world's thinnest shaped tourbillon movement: the 600P movement, measuring just 3.5 mm thick! On aesthetic grounds, the brand opted for a flying tourbillon positioned at 12 o'clock on the movement. The visual effect it produces is accentuated by the presence of the stylised "P" of Piaget. The asymmetry of the design required meticulous adjustments in order to respect the balance of the whole movement. The ultra-thin tourbillon carriage, suspended from a single axis, contains 42 components. Fashioned in titanium, it weighs just 0.2 grammes and performs one rotation per minute. The 600P movement is also equipped with a power reserve at 6 o'clock. The decorative elements such as the circular Côtes de Genève, the circular-grained mainplate, the bevelled hand-drawn bridges, and blued screws reflect the distinctive aesthetic codes of the Swiss watchmaking brand.
Shape: Rectangular
Functions: Seconds, Hours, Minutes, Power reserve indicator at 6 o'clock
Technical features: Flying tourbillon at 12 o'clock, Titanium carriage
Power reserve (in hours): Approx. 44
Frequency (vph): 21,600
Frequency (Hz): 3
Diameter (lines): 12.75 X 10
Diameter (mm): 28.6 x 22.4
Number of jewels: 24
Thickness (mm): 3.5
Number of components: 177
Finishing: Bridges circular-grained, drawn and bevelled by hand, Mainplate circular-grained by hand, Carriage bevelled and drawn by hand, Blued screws, Circular Côtes de Genève
Manufacture Piaget 600P hand-wound movement with power-reserve indicator, the thinnest shaped mechanical flying tourbillon movement in the world (3.5 mm thick).


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Creating International Partnerships
Cal State Fullerton encourages and supports the development and delivery of programs abroad under partnerships with other universities, colleges, governmental agencies, and special organizations. These are increasingly important in defining the university's mission as a "regional university with a global outlook." Such partnerships and programs must be of mutual benefit to both institutions and are to be developed within a standard framework of review procedures and approvals. Following proper procedures helps to insure the quality of academic program activities, while also protecting the integrity of the university and its academic reputation.
The university currently has over 150 formal partnerships signed with universities located abroad (including those established by University Extended Education). These range from the Universidade Federal Fluminense in a suburb of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Fachhochschule Nürtingen in Germany and Hong Kong University. The largest number of our international partners is located in China, where our first partnership was signed in 1984 with Fudan University in Shanghai.
The keys to a successful partnership rest on three factors:
- strong advocacy by a small group of faculty or an individual willing to serve as "steward" of the relationship;
- a focused theme, such as preparation of leaders in international business, coastal ecological research, training of governmental managers, or the teaching of English to speakers of other languages, just to cite a few examples; and
- the commitment of support for program development, delivery, and marketing by both institutions. Because many of these linkages are implemented through "Special Session" programs, University Extended Education (UEE) is frequently involved in the initial stages of developing such partnerships as well as helping define the delivery components of an academically-centered program.
How To Develop Partnerships
STEP 1: First Considerations
Individual faculty who have an interest in developing a partnership with a particular institution or nation, do so because of their own research and teaching interests, a heritage connectivity, or because the other university asked to formalize an agreement and develop a specific academic linkage. A faculty member should ask herself/himself these questions:
(A) Am I willing to devote the time, energy, and personal resources necessary to shape and implement an international partnership and give it priority over an extended period of time?
(B) Is this university or organization going to be a suitable partner for Cal State Fullerton? That is, what is their accreditation status? What similarities do they have with our university or what special differences exist that might be appealing to our students and to other faculty? Does the other university or entity have the capacity to launch and contribute to the partnership?
(C) What are the opportunities for third-party support? For example, the U.S.A.I.D.'s program, "TIES" was central to our development of a partnership with the Autonomous University of Tlaxcala in Mexico.
(D) Will a partnership with this institution have sufficient appeal to attract a good participation response from CSUF students?
These and a host of other considerations can serve to organize conversations within your academic department or unit, regarding the prospects for an appealing international partnership. It is most helpful if others at CSUF share your interest in this location, if not in the specific institution.
STEP 2: Discuss the ideas next with your department Chair and college Dean
Such conversations are vital to lay the important groundwork for a partnership and to avoid investing much time and effort in pursuing a direction that is not going to be supported by others. Be prepared to respond to such questions as: How will this linkage draw upon and enhance the expertise of our faculty? What is the connection with our curriculum? What will be the appeal to either our CSUF students or to constituent students from abroad? What is envisioned programmatically? --- faculty exchanges, student exchanges, delivery of workshops or a training program, offering a CSUF degree abroad or a focused research project? Put these ideas into a bullet-form outline of two pages or less to serve as a "roadmap" to guide these initial discussions. The Dean's Office may be aware of special funding sources that can facilitate the project and may also be open to the idea of providing "seed money" to help launch the partnership [e.g., partial support for international travel].
STEP 3: Further discussion with the International Programs Office and University Extended Education
If these preliminary conversations are encouraging, then the next step is to engage in a formal conversation with the Associate Vice President for International Programs (University Hall 244) and/or the Dean of University Extended Education (College Park 900). Both offices are the primary authors in preparing formal agreements with international partners. International Programs provides general information and advice to faculty and staff who wish to create partnerships and facilitates the university approval process. That office also archives all approved formal partnerships, ranging from "Letters of Intent" or "Memoranda of Understanding" that express goodwill exchanges to "International Agreements" that specify a program delivery and commitment of university resources. University Extended Education (UEE) helps to delivers specific programs as workshops, short-term training programs, or cohort-based extended learning experiences for groups of visiting officials. UEE is the unit of the university that is responsible for "Special Session" that are offered outside the regular time blocks in the official university calendar.
Formal Agreements
The President of California State University, Fullerton, is the only individual authorized to sign written agreements with international partner universities or overseas institutions. No faculty or staff member or other administrator can sign partnership agreements on behalf of Cal State Fullerton. There are two types of approved documents that memorialize cooperative, collaborative arrangements between Cal State Fullerton and international partners. These are labeled "Letters of Intent [LOI]" or a "Memorandum of Understanding [MOU]" and "International Agreements".
- A "Letter of Intent" or "Memorandum of Understanding" is general in nature and does not commit university resources to collaborative activities. Its language expresses statements of cooperation and goodwill between California State University, Fullerton and a recognized international institution, which is usually a university, college, or governmental agency. It may also be a for-profit or non-profit non-governmental agency or community-based organization. The content typically contains wording to the effect that the partnership will plan the "exchange of students and/or scholars (faculty)" and outlines an interest "to develop cooperative, collaborative projects."
- An "International Agreement" is more explicitly descriptive and commits university
resources to a defined project, product, or program. Examples would include a specific
student exchange between two departments/colleges/disciplines that indicates the maximum
numbers of students who may be assisted, a short-term training program delivery, establishment
of a degree program or bundle of selected courses to be made available to the partner
institution (either here or at a site abroad), and the commitment of specific outcomes/deliverables
and resources to implement these activities. These are drafted by either the Office
of International Programs or University Extended Education [UEE]. On occasion, a prospective
partner may initiate such a draft document. Regardless of the source of the formal
document, it must be reviewed by both International Programs and UEE. It does not
become official until it has passed through the full on-campus review process and
is signed by the President of the University and a similar ranking counterpart at
the other institution.
When the document is an "International Agreement," it must have an accompanying program budget that will be reviewed by, and is subject to the approval of the university's Office of Contracts and Procurement, and Budget.
Approval Steps
The review and routing of the proposed international partnership document follows the sequence listed below. Electronic templates that can be downloaded are also provided here. Because of the large number of officials involved in the review process, one should allow for several weeks for the document to work its way through the procedure and to reach the Office of the President.
Routing / Approval Signatures Required:
- Initiator - the on-campus faculty or staff member
- Department Chair
- College Dean
- Dean of University Extended Education
- Associate Vice President, International Programs
- Vice President or Division Head
- Office of Contracts and Procurement
- President of the University
Curricular Considerations
If the cooperative activity is to include one or more courses from the formal university curriculum, one or more standing committees is also involved in the review and approval process. These may include the Graduate Education Committee, International Education Committee, or University Curriculum Committee.
Curricular Considerations
University Policy Statements that are applicable to those aspects of the review process are available from on-line at the Academic Senate section of the CSUF website www.fullerton.edu/senate/documents/ups.htm.
The appropriate policy documents are:
UPS 320.102 International Education Policy
UPS 411.100 Curriculum Guidelines and Procedures: Courses
UPS 450.200 Special Sessions


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- Home
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This was the headline in The Guardian some 6 months ago about Ana's progress last year.
It may well be valid for this season as well.
Ranked 100 when she played her first match this season against Tyra Calderwood (AUS) in Canberra; Ana is now well inside the top 20. It's a big jump; no other player has made such a fast rise this year.


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Write up on WAAF/CHRAJ S&D Uptake project
The LGBT Project
The Nothing for Us without Us, ( NUWU) Project
WAAF was founded in 1999 a year after the International Health Care Centre was formed by Eddie Dane Donton. WAAF was created to provide sustainable social services to compliment the clinical support the IHCC was providing for many people who were suffering from HIV/AIDS at that time in Ghana.
Mission: To help battle the spread of HIV/AIDS, TB as well as other communicable and non communicable diseases and mitigate their effects on communities by providing care and support centers and developing and implementing pragmatic intervention programs
Vision: To set up comprehensive health care centers in all regions of Ghana and West African sub-regions to provide quality health care and to reach out to identified target groups in collaboration with local and international organizations.


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|North Little Rock, Ark.
|High School:
|North Little Rock HS
In 2009-10: played in and started all 28 games for Coach Mitts' Lions, averaging 23.3 minutes per contest…Michelle had a career best year for the Lions, rewriting all but her career steals mark…set her points mark at Truman with 19 and on nine field goals made…made her first career three-pointer as a Lion at Central Missouri…made seven free-throws (7-of-8 87.5 percent) at Nebraska-Omaha…pulled down career best 14 boards at home against Nebraska-Omaha and a career second-best 11 at home against Central Missouri…dished out three assists against Arkansas-Ft. Smith…played a season high 36 minutes at home against Nebraska-Omaha.
In 2008-09: Scored 6.1 ppg and averaged 4.1 rpg while seeing action in all 29 games as a freshman for the Lions last year ... started off her college career with a bang by averaging 13 ppg and 6.0 rpg in her first five games last season ... produced a career-best 16 points in the Lions' win over Paul Quinn (11/16/08) ... made an impact on the glass by blocking a team-high 19 shots and finishing second with 49 offensive boards.
In High School: Helped the North Little Rock Wildcats to a state championship in 2006 ... averaged 10.6 ppg and 6.7 rpg as a junior ... also played volleyball, where she earned all-conference and all-state honors in 2007.
Personal: Business Management emphasis in Marketing Management major ... born May 20, 1990 in Little Rock, Ark. ... daughter of Mary and the late Mike Hedgecock.


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This practical and indestructible spoon rest in a satin stainless steel finish will accent any kitchen counter top.
We're sorry, we have no weights and dimensions for this product.
|Product Type: Spoon Rest
|Material: Metal
|Color: Silver
|Country of Manufacture: China
About the ManufacturerCuisinox has quickly become Canada's best wholesaler of the renowned multi-clad professional cookware 'Cuisinox Elite'. Cuisinox, as a brand, rapidly became a respectable stainless steel houseware manufacturer with a wide range of upscale kitchenware items. Cuisinox offers premium quality stainless steel multi-clad cookware which has received several "Best Cookware" ratings and "Best Buy" accolades in Canada and the USA.
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Hey all,
I wasn't sure which forum to post this in, so I thought I would put it in a forum in which on many holes, distance is key!
I'm looking for somebody who is very, VERY knowledgeable of the technique and mechanics of distance throwing, everything from hip and shoulder rotation, arm and elbows, angle of release, etc. I know there are several golfers out there that can throw exceptionally far, but I would like somebody who is good at teaching the deepest of fundamentals and mechanics of distance throwing, somebody who has no problem pointing out the slightest of flaws and give great constructive criticism.
The thing is, I have been playing off and on for over 20 yrs, and I can vouch for myself to say that drive consistency has never been my strong suit. I can throw it on average a decent 290-325 ft on flat ground (not great) but I know somewhere, somehow, I am gyping myself out of extra distance. I want to work on my accuracy through tight fairways as well, but my main objective is to get max distance on open holes.
I've always had sort of a quirky throw and release, that is, until the last few months fully incorporating the true power grip. Before that, I would tend at least half the time to have wobble on my drives before it finally evened out in mid-flight. Since using the PG, the wobble not near as frequent. I also tend to start low on my wind-back, ending up with my release point too high and the disc flying 'to the moon, Alice'.
I've watched many instructional videos on YouTube, but I feel it would benefit me to have some personal instruction handy. However, my main objective is to get somebody to watch, suggest, and coach me on my drives. Pick me apart however you may.
I'm a little embarrassed to even be posting this (seeing I started playing since 1989 lol). But again, I've always had a quirky drive and even when my mechanics hit dead on, it's not always consistent. I know my DG game hasn't as progressed as much as I know where it could be today. And since getting back into this great game after extended breaks here and there, I'm still shaking off the proverbial cobwebs so to speak.
I'm posting this as a 'feeler' really, to see what kind of response this may get. I would be willing to meet this 'coach' once or twice a week at Alexander (or even Lenora) and even pay them something for their time. Now I don't have a lot of money (who does these days? lol) but even if this person is willing to help out just to be a kind volunteer, I want to at least pay for dinner or even some discs. It would mean a lot to me so as to help my all-around DG game.
Please email or call me privately. But if you wish to reply to post or give suggestions, that would be fine too I guess.
Btw, you don't have to be a major pro (though a Phil Arthur or Avery Jenkins type would be cool) . Just somebody who is very consistent in long distance drives and is very knowledgeable in technique and mechanics.
mobile: 678-557-5669
Thanks for the space. Keep on brewin'
PS Btw, my dear brother Rob has given me help time and again, but I feel I need even more in-depth coaching (and to avoid too much nepotism lol).


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Visit the beautiful house where Rembrandt worked and lived for 20 years!
Dining in Rembrandt's kitchen 20 April 2015
The old kitchen is one of the finest rooms in the Rembrandt House Museum, providing as it does a fascinating glimpse into Rembrandt's domestic life... Lees verder »
Plantage, cultural garden of Amsterdam 28 April 2015
The Rembrandt House Museum is situated in the Plantage, the Cultural Garden of Amsterdam. Right in the center of the city, this neighbourhood offers... Lees verder »
Workshop program this summer 21 May 2015
We decided to extend our workshop program. In the coming months visitors can take part in various workshops in the studio once used by Rembrandt's pupils... Lees verder »
Rembrandt & Japanese Echizen paper 11 June 2015
On Friday June 12th 2015, the Rembrandt House Museum will open an exhibition devoted to Rembrandt's extraordinary choice for paper from Japan. It has long... Lees verder »
Heavenly Rembrandt 2015 28 July 2015
From 21 September to 4 October – the date of Rembrandt's death – the top floor of the famous Rembrandt Tower in Amsterdam will play host to the second edition.. Lees verder »
Jeff Mills at Rembrandt House during ADE 6 August 2015
As part of the 20th anniversary of the Amsterdam Dance Event, US techno DJ and producer Jeff Mills will spend a day working within the walls of the studio... Lees verder »


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Mavericks Tickets
Can the Dallas Mavericks make another deep run in the playoffs this season? You can be there to find out with tickets to every game on the Dallas Mavericks schedule with GoTickets. We have Mavericks tickets for every game on the schedule at the American Airlines Center.
Dallas Mavericks Schedule
Wednesday, 7:30 PM
Mavs Ticket Info
The Dallas Mavericks were just one year removed from an NBA Title going into last season. Unfortunately for the Mavs, that's no guarantee that they would reach the playoffs again. Dallas was bit with the injury bug early and often throughout last season and finished at exactly .500, 41-41. It was the first time in over a decade that the Mavericks did not reach the postseason. Former NBA Finals MVP Dirk Nowitzki was not able stay healthy throughout the regular season and it likely cost the Mavs a trip back to the playoffs.
The Mavericks finished just four games out of the playoff spot, which was claimed by their cross-state rivals, the Houston Rockets. Towards the end of the season Dallas showed flashes of greatness, going 11-5 in March, including a 6-3 stretch at home. 34-year old DIrk Nowitzki will return for his 16th season and will look to play more than the 53 games he did in '12-'13. See if the Dallas Mavericks can return to the playoffs this season with the help of GoTickets.
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Comments On Apr 21, 2014:These worked very well although you may need to rotate your forks in the triple clamps if they interfere with the handlebars. No biggie and much easier than dealing with the bleed screw every time.
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Comments On Feb 05, 2014:Nice fit and works well but the rubber o-ring damages easily of you over tighten just a little bit. Snug up with your hand and tighten 1/4 turn.
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Comments On Jan 08, 2014:These were too tall and hit the bars. Had to send them back and get another brand. Motion pro were shorter and would fit without hitting the bars. My dads bike is lowered so less room between handlebar and top of fork. For most, these would probably fit just fine.
TECH NOTE: On some bikes it is possible to rotate the upper tubes in the triple clamps so that the bleeder does not contact the handlebars
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Comments On Jan 05, 2014:These fork bleeder valves are wonderful! Easy to install, fit without any problems, and make bleeding air out of forks almost too easy. Can't imagine not using them on a bike now.
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Comments On Dec 02, 2013:these are simple easy to use. push of the button to release air. how easy it is and saves you in the long run
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Comments On Nov 16, 2013:Have them on all my bikes, great little piece to add to your bike
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Comments On Aug 29, 2013:SO GLAD I PURCHASED THESE! THEY ARE SO NICE TO HAVE, MAKES BLEEDING THE AIR SO EASY NOW! I THINK THEY LOOK PRETTY AWESOME AS WELL!
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Comments On Aug 26, 2013:Good air bleed valve
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Comments On Jul 19, 2013:easy bleed your forks while riding, good way to extend the life of your seals.
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Comments On Jul 20, 2013:These things are a life saver. FOLLOW THE TIGHTENING INSTRUCTIONS. IT MAY SEEM THAT THEY ARE STILL TOO LOOSE BUT THEY ARE NOT. IF YOU OVERTIGHTEN YOU WILL STRIP THEM
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text: One-Direction By September 1, 2013 12:58 PM Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Category: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter More Leave a comment Send to a friend! Print this page Pin it! Reddit This! Share on Tumblr! Best of Kool 101.7 47 Years Ago: The Byrds Release 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' Thanks for Helping Us Stuff The Trailer With Back to School Supplies Road Work To Cause Signicant Delays On Grand Avenue September 1; Water Main Crossing Will Severely Impact Traffic Superior Man Triathalon To Cause Traffic Delays And Closures On August 30 Recommended For You Best of the Web