text:
I think we can pretty much assume the main issue (asides from any personal issues with Steam) comes down to this:
1 - People want to buy and use product A.
2 - People get very annoyed if they are told that product A must be used with product B in order to work.
3 - People want product A to work, outside company issues doesn't concern them, so any attempt at explaining why product B is required is ignored on the grounds that it is being "forced" upon them.
There are quite a number of products out there, both electronic or not, that done the years have required customers to pay for something else to make it work. Heck, printers don't come with USB cables nowadays so there's an easy example.
And before the argument about how Steam isn't required for FM to be used, well actually yes it is. To authenticate and thus use the game you need Steam. In this version of FM, Steam is a VITAL component of the customer experience unless you break the law.
So, for coming years perhaps the issue isn't Steam but rather SI/SEGA either making their own version for customers to authenticate through or allowing an option of different programs (Steam and AN Other) if possible to give those crying out about their infringement upon human rights the chance to choose their poison.
FM 10/11 - Steam was an optional piece of software to run the game.
FM 12 - Steam is a vital piece of software to run the game.
Everything else in this thread is window dressing. And now, back to Doctor Who I go.
Just read this...brilliant. The Steam sales people have pulled a fast one on Sega. 'Oh look how much money you're losing through piracy. You should be zillionaires instead of simple millionaires! License it exclusively to us and we'll make sure you get those '2 out of 3' sales we've researched you're losing, making money for us both.' Sigh, I cant believe they fell for that when so many...most other massive game companies sent them packing straight out the door (my friend used to work for steam in corporate sales - he is amazed they got FM on the books!!). Hung by their own greed and trouble to come. So long for now FM. I'll see you on 'rip'-side...
I really dont understand all these noise! In order to play the game you need severall "third party softwares"... and steam will be one more to join the list!
I'm not saying that all the people that are against and dont want to buy the game dont have that right! Of course you have... but have you really stop to think that you will stop playing a game that you love, just to not install a piece of software? It seems a bit drastic dont you think?
That's how you keep your computer clean, quick and safe.
Steam has been brought in to prevent pre-owned sales simple as that. My major problem with this is, the price has stayed the same.
When i shell out 50 euros for a game up till now i was able to re coupe money though trade ins.
from steam subscriber agreement:
Section 13B - "Valve reserves the right to collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred prior to the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription. In addition, you are responsible for any charges incurred to third-party vendors or content providers before your cancellation.In the event that your Account or a particular subscription is terminated or canceled by you, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted. "
For that matter, no one neednt worry about steam at all. All this fuss over nothing to be honest.
I'm seriously tired of the same old reaction.
"Oh it just takes 5mins."
"You'll never know it's there."
"It's not a big deal, your just making it a big deal."
I have Kelly Brook ready to take you to bed for the night..... However, first i have to smash your toes with a hammer.... It won't take long, you'll forget about it when your in bed with her and it's not that big of a deal, they are only your toes.
Is anyone seriously going to go for this? No they are not. So why the hell should i download a Steam-ing turd before i play FM12?
An extreme example but what people still FAIL to understand is that the reason's for not wanting it are irrelivant, our annoyance comes from being forced into a position where it's either Steam and FM or neither. People don't want to have their options limited, if you like Steam then great, good for you, i'm sure it's a great tool for you but i have no need, want or desire to have it festering on my PC.
I've heard people say it's extreme that we'd give up a game we love for principles..... I find it extreme that some would give up their principles for a game. It may be something small now but where does it end? If you let people bully you once they'll bully you again.
Plenty of programs need extras to work and each extra connects to the internet for updates, can go wrong or mess up a computer. These extras come from 3rd party companies. The major difference between Steam and anything else is that Steam is an active program that the user is able to switch on/off, interact with and do other things with if they want to. One of the issues raised in this thread is this extra utility somehow makes Steam far more of an issue than say DirectX being needed is.
yes, everybody who is using steam gave up their principles, or maybe we are not bothered by something that does not effect you in any way, your just making abig deal out of It because you like being awkward
Firstly I have no issues with STEAM , I've used it in the past to buy Football Manager (when I lived in England).
For the past 3 years I've been in South Korea , every time a new FM came out I always checked STEAM first, but it has never been available here. So, I always used gamersgate.com or game.co.uk with no real problems (byteshield - yuck!)
This year again it is not possible to buy and download through STEAM in Korea, so I'm wondering if i digitally download it from another site will I even be able to activate through STEAM? Or in fact do digital downloads have to be activated fthrough STEAM?
I couldn't think of anything more frustrating than having the game on my hard drive bought and paid for but being region locked out of playing it....!
Any help greatly appreciated, cheers.
(posted as a thread but this seems a lot more active)
Steam may take 5 mins, but it's my 5 mins and things like this are rarely the end it's just the beginning.
I'll most likely buy the game since for last two versions I've played via Steam (after buying a boxed edition). For anyone who is lost through the decision to make steam only I find that being sad. I think we had it best over the last couple of editions with being able to choose to have the disc in or install via Steam.
I don't think the decision will impact on piracy much at all. I doubt their will be a sizable drop or increase in piracy. This is because people who want a game for free won't pay and will pirate, whist people who want the genuine item will pay for it or simply not buy it (sure a few extra people may well turn to piracy). I can understand the hope from SEGA/SI that this will initally prevent piracy and hopefully those extra couple of days before it is pirated will have enough sales to outweigh the loss of existing customers. I just personally don't think it will. I can't imagine a person who was planning on getting a pirate copy suddenly thinking "oh those 2 days are going to kill me, I cannot wait so I will just buy the geniune version," just don't see that happening.
Again I feel sad that one single FM player will be lost because of switching to steam only. I personally don't mind steam that much. But if we had option of no DRM, no steam, etc and just install and play without needing a disc in I imagine virtually all FM players would choose this option and it does suck that we can't have that.
I know steam can be a pain at times. Especially when you've forgot that you left it in online mode, come back to your computer when your internet is down and you're stuck with a game you cannot play... that is very annoying. I've taken to setting steam to start in offline mode incase my internet is ever down. I do hope SI/SEGA stick a great big fat notice of instructing people how to start steam in offline mode.
sorry SI, I've bought every CM/FM since the times of To Madeira but after your "message" I regret to inform you that I will not buy FM12. Hopefully we'll be together again for FM13...
Last edited by nessi; 18-09-2011 at 00:31.
OK thanks.
But would I be able to solely activate the game through STEAM - even if it is unavailable to buy it from them in my region?
this is ballssack
FM 12 is going to flop.
****ing stupid move SEGA.
Last edited by Rubentus_Juventus; 18-09-2011 at 01:15.
Plus for those of us who are a wake-up to Valve we didn't have to keep FM2011 until we died !
On that point...if, like Valve, SI is buying the mantra that we don't actually OWN the game after parting with our hard earned, that we only have a license to use. (..smirk...) would SI be prepared to take our copies back for a small fee ?
You know.. for recycling the manuals and plastics of the item. Better that than having it lying around collecting dust forever.
Thanks in advance..
SEGA have obviously not researched how easy it is to pirate/redistribute Steam games, honestly at the moment it is less hassle than some form of protection implemented in the main executable
I understand the decision made here, though i am not happy about it, i will give it one more chance.
I have never used steam, and i dont really want to, but i have no choice.
My question to you, if it is giving me tons of problems, i will not be playing FM anymore, until another method arrives. Do i get my money back if i cannot get to play the game through steam, as experienced by many of these posters before me?
Thanks (I have been playing since the beginning, and it is the ONLY game i play.)
What about if we don't have Internet???
Im sure im not the only one who has this sort of problem and i sure there is people who don't even have an internet connection
Now im going to have pay someone to fix my laptop and god knows how much that will be???
Iv played since it all started and im going to have pay alot to play the game. Is it worth it??
I would love to know what Miles and co think about what a lot of us are saying?
Do you think they would even bother reading any of this
You can share a game within one household if you use Steam...just start Steam in offline mode - this is a legal way of doing it...in times of CD's you had to use an illegal crack.
I'm sure Miles and other people at SI have been reading this. They may well agree that not having an alternative is a bad idea. The fact that SEGA have been doing this with other games (Total War) and that this thread was started by someone from SEGA makes me think that this was a SEGA decision that SI had little say in. Saying that SI will want to stop piracy as much if not more than SEGA so if they think this is the way to go to stop it (whether its right or wrong) they will do it and wont be changing their minds anytime soon
I don't want steam! Not now, not ever! Hated it on FM09 and was glad when I didn't need to on FM10, 11.
If you wanted it this why then why couldn't you produce your own software to deal with it instead of using steam???
Its like buying a new laptop/pc and being forced to use internet explorer!!!
I'll be honest, I havent read any of the Posts in this thread since the early hours of yesterday morning, CBA - too frustrating, but I think it is sad that "we" have felt polarised enough to post 17 pages worth in less than 48 hours, surely that says something remarkable about the "controversy" of this issue. Although telephone activation was a nightmare in 2008 surely this should be an additional option for those who do not have the required internet service?, even if charged at a premium rate (provided it is all well warned).
If I was a cynic I would think this whole thread was a ploy to deflect daft questions about the demo release date ;-)
12 of those 17 pages are the same five users poking each other with sticks
I have a question to staunch and experienced Steam users.
Further to my previous posts on Friday, I bit the bullet and downloaded Steam last night and left it running in Offline mode. I did this to check how much memory it uses on a laptop (my main FM machine). One of my main bugbears with it is that previously I have had problems with it both in terms of memory use but have had issues with game performance on Black Ops on a main pc (to the extent that I no longer play that game at all). Memory usage on a laptop was fine, so whatever the previous problem was on that front it is fixed.
My question is a simple one. Why am i getting pop-up adverts when the damn thing is in offline mode? Why does Steam in offline mode crash when I turn my router off at the wall? Why does it need an internet connection if it is in offline mode?
so does this mark the end of selling your old fm game on ebay if the activation code can only be used once?
You can turn off the adverts by loading Steam, opening the Steam menu, select settings, select interface and then untick the Notify option at the bottom.
I don't know about the others.
Another aspect of all this;
Since SEGA and SI continue to reiterate that you would only actually ever need Steam for 5 seconds - connecting to the internet and activating the game - after that, you can just put Steam in offline mode and essentially it becomes a pointless background process with no functionality whatsoever (except for increasing start-up time for FM, and becoming an extra layer of potential trouble that SI have no control over).
So then, if it's only an activation thing, could you not do your own activation, through a secure website? That way we wouldn't have to keep Steam installed and running in the background. Rhetorical question, of course you actually could do that...but that wouldn't put money in SEGA's pockets from Valve. However, I frankly don't care about SEGA's lucrative deals with game distributors, I'd rather SEGA focus on user experience and rewarding those who pay for the game by making our experience the easiest and most enjoyable possible.
SEGA can keep claiming they've thought this through, but the only angle they've thought about is how to make some extra cash, and make it easier for themselves to avoid piracy (Steam will change nothing though, the game will be pirated as soon as it's out). They obviously haven't thought it through from a usability perspective.
And it's a shame that the thread is a civil war between those who like Steam and those who don't - we're not against each other, we just have different preferences.
I'd also be interested in hearing the (lack of) discussion about this at SEGA - about the fact that this thread is mainly negative against their chosen "anti-piracy" system. Many of their customers are unhappy, but do they care? My guess is no.
There is much more to this than just piracy it is a cash cow organisation like Sega trampelling on the community that has MADE FM and continues to devote FREE time to making the game better.
It may not be the biggest issue in the world but if people don't stand up for these small things then they will feel that bigger things can just be done as no-one will stand up for themselves.
I cannot believe with just over a month to go that Sega has announced something so controversial without at least getting feed back from the community that have put so much into this game.
No surprise that Sega once a giant in the games industry was destroyed so completely by it's rivals is it if they treat people this way!
By the way the next Sega announcement for tomorrow is:
'Before being allowed to watch a game in 2D or 3D there will now be a 30 second commercial before every game...................we thank our advertisers for allowing us to stiff our gamers'
(yes I am being sarcastic but watch this space!!!!!!)
I understand that the idea to use Steam is to combat piracy, but if it's possible to play the installed game on any computer around the world, what is to stop someone from installing his copy ofgame on Steam and then giving say 1000 people his login details?
Or have I misunderstood something?
And the point of releasing a retail boxed version is..........?
I can assume that you will have on the front of the box in large print "You are required to play this game using the 3rd party platform steam". My guess is it will be in the smallest print possible on the reverse of the box in the hope people don't realise they have to use steam and Sega/SI still get a sale.
This thread now has double the responses that the release of the game thread had ..... that speaks volumes!
It will be interesting to see what those in favour of steam have to say when they encounter guaranteed issues on the day of release, every year steam has been a shambles.
Sega are running the show now, not SI and that is very sad indeed.
Last edited by data6930; 18-09-2011 at 09:22.
Combat piracy by treating all your customers as potential pirates.
I can guarantee that some hacker will get around the Steam activation method and then SI/SEGA will see for themselves the drop in users through Steam's monitoring system.
Not only that, but if Steam detects multiple logins coming from different regions of the world (or same country), or if it detects someone trying to log in to an account that is already logged in, then it will likely lock that account until they can figure out what's going on.
There. Pre-order of FM 2012 cancelled. You will not force me to install third party software on my computer.
Also, the number 1000 was exaggerated, but what if 1000 people only gave their login details each to only one person (the chances that they coordinate when they play are quite good), the effect is the same. In the past it was possible to start and save several games with different teams. If you have Steam can you only have one saved game at a time?
Yes, you can take it around the world with you. The point being that you will be moving gradually from place to place. What Steam looks for is someone logging in in Glasgow one minute, and then 30 minutes later they're in Bournemouth. Or one minute someone is playing with an account that's been created in the UK, and 2 minutes later someone from the USA has logged in to the same account.
Bear in mind, that if you have Steam running in offline mode, you can't switch accounts without logging into their servers.
At home, I have a laptop and a work-station. In all three cases (09, 10 & 11) I've installed with the disc on the laptop and then set my workstation to automatically install it once Steam had registred my activation.
In one case (I believe it was FM10) I was at my parents house for a couple of days, and didn't have my computer with me. I installed Steam on my mothers laptop, logged in on my own account and downloaded and installed FM without hassle.
Just to emphasise, I am not condoning or suggesting people do this. As earlier posts show, my main concern right now is that people living here in Germany might not be able to activate the game at all.
not seem to have learned nothing from the horrible Fm 2009
EA Sports creates these silly to try to prevent piracy of FIFA?
And Konami?
The answer is No!
What they do is play games so much that even with piracy exist just pleasing people who choose to buy the original version of the game
I think that instead of wasting time trying to find fancy anti-piracy techniques that will be broken by any cracker Russian 12 years old in two hours, they should bother to try and make a good game, so the date for the launch of the game he as little bugs as possible, something that did not happen in FM 2011 with the damn bug gtransferencias
Stop Inventing stuff that will hurt good customers, otherwise most will be the obrigda becomes bad customers
- a number of 'license seats' so that you could install on 2-3 computers.
- a way of recovering 'license seats' in the event that anything happens to your machine(s).
By doing this they are potentially allowing people to share copies and be able to sell the game on.
By offering only steam they do not need to do either of these things and so stop casual sharing of discs and the re-sale market, potentially selling significantly more copies.
Personally I'm getting sick of the hassle you have to put up with to play PC games (I don't mean FM specifically).
I've just heard that Diablo III will require you to be connected to the server at all times, even when playing in singleplayer. I was planning to buy that game but there's just no way I'm going to put up with that.
These days I buy the PS3 version of a game when available, it's just so much easier to install and get playing. In fact, the only PC games I've bought recently are Indie games and older classics.
RE Steam: I've never yet found a reason to use it, so if it provides no benefit to me then I somewhat resent having it shoved down my throat. Arguments about "technology moves on" are very disingenous - this is purely a commercial decision to use Steam.
My last experience with it was with Fallout New Vegas which also required you to register via Steam. I found there were still a lot of irritations and niggles in the system, nothing major perhaps but I uninstalled it as soon as I finished FNV.
Still, as someone said when defending this decision, no-one is forcing me to buy FM12. And there are plenty of other good games that I can buy instead.
What an absolute fuss over nothing
So if someone has ISP trouble and their broadband for whatever reason goes 'down' does that mean Steam can not work and therefore games can't be played?
There have been cases with my previous well known ISP going down for hours.
Of course it's not the end of the world if such a thing happens, but I think out of principle it is wrong that I or anyone can't play a legally purchased game if I have trouble with my ISP and the internet goes 'down'.
Why can't they have an activation scenario like Microsoft do or similar type companies like anti-virus???
Because Piracy is a side issue and money is the main motivation....................and judging by the SI response they don't care or can't do anything about it.
"Technology moves on" is a rubbish argument to defend this decision to be honest.
Yes, of course it does. But I personally wouldn't consider it an advancement unless it makes things easier for the user, not more complicated.
By any reasonable definition, having Steam required to play something that is a on a physical media is a clear step backwards, rather than forwards.
Steam itself is an advancement in technology, but only when it relates to digital downloads - but even then with some drawbacks (price, software stability and so on).
Surely there could be some compromise here ? My mate has no internet nor no laptop just a old pc that barely plays fm but he loves the game, How will he be able to activate his game or is it a case of he's stuffed ?
After realising that I will not be able to sell the game after buying if I don't enjoy it, the demo is going to have to absolutely blow me away in order for me to buy it this year.
I sold 08 and 09 because I thought they were both absolutely awful, and didn't buy 11 at all for the same reason. I don't want to spend my money, find out there's some horrific bug that ruins long-term saves (again) and not actually be able to get my money back for it.
Obviously money is their motivation. In buisness it always is.
As things stand they will never prevent certain forms of piracy but in turn the majority of people who turn to those forms wont be turned in to paying customers either.
What they are trying to do is target other forms of piracy (disc sharing) and re-sale which by doing this they can prevent.
Dont get me wrong I am unhappy about this too but I can see why they are doing it.
Basically everyone is moving towards online activations through Steam or their own method. Once the next generation of consoles hit, every game will require some sort of registration or need to be online to tie that game with a single account, to try and reduce piracy and (more importantly for most publishers) stop second hand sales. If you don't like it stop buying games published by the big publishers, you'll have to live with Indie gaming or give up completely. This is unfortunately the future and you either have to live with it or lump it.
Many many other companies battle piracy with far betetr methods and activation without affecting people in such a major way.
Ill thought out, ill devised, and yet again another activation mess created by Sega/SI.
Last edited by ronaldo_1978; 18-09-2011 at 11:11.
I myself will have no other use for steam other than playing FM and I'm not happy about this but they have stated that this was the only method of activation they have deemed suitable.
My reasons above are why I belive they have done this. At no point did I say I agree.
From their point of view they will have estimated that this will gain more sales than it loses. After all most people will just buy it and install it without any fuss and they will probably record record sales. Only time will tell.
In combatting piracy they will never please everyone.
I found this page about worldwide piracy rates, I don't know how up-to-date it is. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...re-piracy-rate
What's interesting is that places like the UK/US have the lowest piracy rates. So apparently we're all being punished because of the piracy in places like Moldova and Azebaijan.
Sega/SI have flatly refused to provide any figures to back up their claims which I find a little odd, however, There is a set of figures they must know, A)How many people buy hard copies of FM, and B)How many of those hard copies are activated through Steam.
B - A = C)The number of people who either chose not to activate through Steam or weren't able to activate through Steam.
This is the number of people that could possibly be alienated by Sega/SI's decision. Will Sega/SI please provide these figures? They can't be considered sensitive surely.
Are Sega/SI really willing to gamble on potentially losing that many paying customers? They obviously are or they wouldn't have taken this route. Unless this figure is very low they have made a big mistake.
I was planning on responding to this thread yesterday afternoon, but whilst on the way to the studio I was involved in a car crash (no one hurt, which is good) and was a bit shaken up, so not the time for me to be replying in the calm manner that I wanted to to this thread.
This was always going to be an emotive subject. Any form of copy protection is. There's no conspiracy theory about SEGA posting about it though - they normally do so, as it's a publishing thing, not a development thing. It is their job to come up with recommendations in this area, but we were consulted about the various options available. This is by far and away the best one that was presented to us, from a user perspective, a business perspective and a protection perspective.
No one from SEGA or SI would say that using the system that we are means that the game will not be cracked at some point. It's bound to be. But with the exception of FM2009, every version of FM has been available to pirate before the retail release. During that few days, every year, retail see pre-orders being cancelled. Every year retail see pre-orders not being collected, even those with "free gifts" and where deposits have been paid. If it can be made that those people who legitimately buy our games this year get to play it before those that are pirating, that will be a good thing. If it can be that way for a few months, weeks, or even days, after that release, we do believe it will make a big difference.
We are also not saying that we believe that if the game isn't cracked, all of those previous pirates will buy it. I do not believe that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. The vast majority of people who pirate it won't pay the money for it, certainly not at launch. But I do believe that a proportion of them will do. And those extra sales, for however long the game can be protected, will lead to an increase in dev budgets, and therefore better, or more, games for all.
Dave gave some stats out earlier which were slightly inaccurate. It's not the case that there are 3 people playing pirated copies of FM for every 1 legitimate customer - there are more than 4 people playing pirated copies of FM for every legitimate customer. And to the question on whether that takes into account people who have bought who play with CD cracks, it doesn't matter, as even if every single person who bought FM played with a CD crack, there would still be 3 people playing pirated versions for each 1 legitimate customer who has decided to install a 3rd party, illegal in the majority of countries, CD crack.
There are people claiming on here that the reason for doing this is just to kill the second hand market. That's simply not true - it didn't even come into the conversation when discussing protection for this year. According to the licensing agreement for the game, whether you've read it or not, it's against the license to re-sell the game. As it is for the vast majority of PC games. The vast majority of retailers who deal in second hand games do not trade in PC games, whatever the protection is. And the replayability factor of FM is huge, so second hand isn't something that has affected us in a major way at all.
One big thing that was taken into account when looking at the various systems available was how many people, given the choice with FM11 of whether to install the game via Steam or without Steam, chose to install via Steam. The results surprised me, with the majority of people deciding to install through Steam.
There've been questions about what I think of the reaction, given that it's 17 pages so far. Well, obviously I'm disappointed when anyone says they aren't going to buy our next release, and I doubt there's anything that I'll be saying here that will appease those people. But the reality is that those being negative in the 17 pages are mainly the same people - about 50 in total. The negative reaction from a few people is very similar to that when Total War announced that they were going down this route. And when Civ went down this route. I'm sure both Creative Assembly and Firaxis were just as disappointed to be losing some long term customers as I am - but that doesn't change the decision that has been made, nor change my belief that from the options we had, it's the best one for all.
We will, continuously, look for other ways to provide our games to people as long as it doesn't compromise the security that is needed. I've been vocal about how I really like the OnLive system, for example, and this is something we'll continue to investigate. That does require you to register, though, and does require an internet connection permanently to play, so certainly won't suit all if we do go down that route.
There've been many posts about the problem being the installation of third party software on your machine, but that's just a part of life when it comes to PC games. Whether that be Direct X, graphics drivers, Windows/MacOS, font rendering technology, web browsing tech or other middleware, anytime you install a game, or application on your computer, you require third party software.
People have also asked "what about those who don't have an internet connection". When we had activation for FM2009 which was done both online and via telephone, less than 4% of people, globally, chose to use the telephone route. Some of these people had a net connection, but didn't want to authenticate that way (as per the huge threads at that time). So, again whilst it's disappointing that some people genuinely don't have a net connection and might miss out, this was taken into account with the overall decision, and there wasn't an option presented to me by SEGA this year that didn't involve purely online activation.
There has also been talk about other PC titles on here that will get your money instead. I've seen the following being mentioned so far (apologies if I've missed any) - Call of Duty, Battlefield, Fifa Manager, FIFA, Batman & Rage. Battlefield, FIFA Manager & FIFA on PC will all require EA's online system, called Origin, and for you to register with them. Rage is Steamworks, as we are. Call of Duty uses Activision's new online system. I do not know about Batman's authentication method, or whether it has one.
You've asked how we're letting people know about this. Well, apart from the forum thread, there was a mailshot on Friday to hundreds of thousands of our registered customers to let them know about it, as well as telling them about the blogs and the release date. Since then, pre-orders have gone up massively with our pre-order position at Amazon in the UK (for example) going up from the mid 20's into the top 10, peaking at 5 and currently at 7, which is way higher than we normally are at this time of year. There will also be, front of pack in between the SI logo and the age rating, in big letters, the words "requires internet connection to activate", which was insisted upon by me for us to be able to go ahead with this. I will be chasing SEGA first thing on Monday to ensure that all retailers who have packshots online switch to the final packshot, rather than the one they are currently using.
I, like many of the people who aren't happy with the decision, am also a very principled person. There are certain chains that I don't eat at. There's even a local sandwich shop that I won't go to anymore as they wouldn't change the bun on a sandwich I wanted (the original had sesame seeds on them, and I have a nut allergy) when they'd done so dozens of times in the past. I am well aware that some people will not buy the game purely on principle because we have gone Steam only this year and, as I said above, I'm very disappointed by that. Despite my own principles though, I fully understand and support the decision that has been made, given the options presented.
I also think that Steam itself is fantastic. I have more than 80 games on my account. They are massively helpful at every turn to help us get the game integrated with their features, like achievements, and allowing people with PC's & Mac's to be able to play games on both systems. SEGA's customer support team will be on hand if anyone does have an issue, as always, on top of Steam's support.
So, that's my opinion on the 17 pages that I've read so far. As I said, it's not going to appease all those who are anti, as some of those who are anti will only be happy if the decision is reversed, and it isn't going to be. Hopefully, though, some of the points I've made will appease some of you.
There are 2 questions that I haven't been able to answer that I do think need answering, which are how do people in countries where the game isn't sold play, and what about people in the forces who don't have net connections. Those are things for SEGA to look into, and I would hope that they would get back to you on those.
As for people asking for actual figures on these things, the reason those aren't given out are very simple - SEGA Sammy Holdings, the parent company of both SI and SEGA Europe, are a stock market listed company. There are all kinds of regulatory issues that mean that those figures would only be given out in official financial statements, and permission would not be given for putting such figures into a forum post. There are also legally binding confidentiality agreements in place in many areas of the business.
Miles I personally have no problem with using steam has it's how I bought fm11 and it's been fine. I just wanted to know if you will be providing a way for those to buy and play the game for those who don't have net and will there be a way my mate can activate his game on my pc?


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Thank you to all Medical Staff members who attended one of our three recent events – the March Doctors' Day Celebration in Bellarmine Hall at Fairfield University, the Thank You Breakfast at the hospital the next morning and the Physician Leadership Summit at the Bridgeport Holiday Inn in April. All the events were well attended and I believe went very well.
At the Physician Summit, Peter Cimino, MD, spoke about what his practice experienced going live with Epic and the lessons learned. Peter was entertaining, knowledgeable and thought-provoking all at the same time. Special thanks, Peter, for the thought and time you put into preparing for our Summit. A reminder: EPIC is getting closer. You can register online for Epic classes, which start in early July. You can call 203-384- EPIC for assistance in registering. We go live September 21.
Our second speaker was Kerry Johnson, a nuclear engineer and leader of Healthcare Performance Improvement, a consulting firm that helps hospitals become safer and more reliable. He talked about the effort required to prevent errors and mitigate the damage incurred when errors do occur.
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Their story took place during the years 1918 and 1934. James Ray Rogers was nine years old when Lois and Bill got married and he died four years before Lois, in 1934, finally witnessed Bill get and stay sober – not through her help, but from the support of a fellow alcoholic and later Dr. Bob Smith. Out of their relationship, AA was born. But I did not intend to tell the Wilson's story, but to tell you of the young Ray Rogers.
My father-in-law used to tell me of a couple of his uncles, George or "Shorty" and Jim, whom he remembered coming into Lenoir City in their fast cars and their fancy clothes and staying at the hotel down town. He said he thought they were bootleggers and that they had eventually moved from Blount County, Tennessee, to the Columbus, Georgia, area as whiskey dealers. He also told me Ray Rogers was killed by Federal "Revenuers" while he was carrying whiskey for his father, George.
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holding his son, R. M. with son, James Ray standing beside them.


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iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
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Topic: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions (Read 1668 times)
Posts: 6
iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
November 17, 2012, 02:52:07 PM »
Hello All,
I am a long-time photographer (pro) and until recently upper elementary teacher. My last school offered me a chance to teach photography to the 4th and 5th kids, and they have a set of iPads(v3). These little workshops would have to be 40-minute sessions, and unfortunately spaced a week apart (I might take steps to cut that gap... doesn't work well for this age...)
I use an Android tablet so am a little out of the loop on iOS products.
These kids need to experience thinking and planning. Yes, there's a place for spontaneous shooting, but I am going to fit this into the same process that writing requires: an idea, first draft, critical eye, second draft, flexibility, more refinement, do it again. In other words, focus on the aesthetic process. So any "filters" (a la Instagram, etc.) are out -- at least at first. I will be using what are known as core standards, partly to fit this into "school" and partly to retain credibility and give the tiny program some clout and longevity if I should want to do it for a while. This underpinning is important to school administrators for good reason in today's environment.
Here's where I ask for help:
I need a "walled garden" photo capture and display/edit app. I would LIKE to have their images iCloud out to my computer, or if the school is too nervous about that, a school server for eval and kid-image-management. I want no Internet use as part of this. On a purely iOS point, I need to avoid kids going over to games and other distraction offered on the platform. Student shoots five (whatever) images and sees them on the screen side-by-side. Picks one. That image flagged as choice, and they show me somehow what they choose and I get to talk for a second or so about the choice and if they met their goal. Might be story-telling where the "outcome" is five pix. I am still making sure I can DO this before I write the course/proposal. BTW, there would be 20-ish kids in the room! and generally speaking, they don't show patience with waiting for feedback. <grin>
Some schools have a very capable tech administrator who builds and/or sets up ad hoc environments like this for teachers but that is not the case in my rural environment here. I always used a lot of computer technology in my classroom so I feel comfortable with managing the kids and the gear together. (But that is a huge factor... means you proceed slowly and step by step.)
Who knows a site that concentrates on iPad or kid+iPad software? It's not strictly an education software issue, although I will be going back to some of the ed software forums (fora?) that I used to haunt.
Aloha from Hawaii,
Sr. Member
Posts: 1261
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #1 on:
November 18, 2012, 11:06:56 AM »
Hi Jonathan
Just a thought but I do wonder if you are not trying to complicate matters a little here. I'm thinking that simply downloading the captured images into separate files, one for each child in something as simple as Windows might do the trick. May I ask just how the process is going to work? From what you have said I imagine it is something like this -
Pupil plans his shots.
Pupil captures his images
Pupil reviews his images
Pupil selects an image for final presentation.
I suppose it depends upon the facilities you have but I can't see the need to start bringing in specialist applications. Am I missing something?
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Posts: 6
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #2 on:
November 18, 2012, 01:37:12 PM »
Thank you for your suggestions. You understand the learning steps I'll ask the to take -- I add direction, re-direction, and feedback to keep everyone on-track and learning.
I had to "start" the logistics planning around the iPads because the school has a set of them in a cart. No cameras available. The cart moves, I trust, as needed, and if on pattern this conveyance has the needed specialty charging distribution circuitry. This gives me the gear I need: a capture device, viewer, editor, and presentation device. No card readers, kids standing in line to get their images down/uploaded. No cameras available, anyway. It's public school and the kids can't bring a camera. There are some netbooks on another cart but the tech coordinator at this school is so overworked and the teachers so rushed that I am told it never arrives at its next stop with better than 50% of the netbooks charged enough to use. Welcome to schools nowadays: saving money -- staff --any possible way.). Sorry -- nascent rant.
These students will be 9 and 10-year-olds with no experience of photography or looking seriously at a picture, much less asked to articulate their thoughts about it. Most (85%) will NOT have handled an iPad -- ever. Many of them, when presented with something new or -- when unsure of the next step -- and not guided one-on-one -- will jump over to playing with the iPad (completely natural reaction for all ages, BTW). So I need three things:
-A guided (limited) path through a few steps
-Easy clear steps and transitions
-Time to practice the few steps (makes kids way more comfortable)
1. I think I found iPad software to provide what I call "guardrails". Someone (educator w/PhD in ed tech use for learning) wrote code to keep kids inside one iPad program in a classroom. I don't have the link right handy, but that is a crucial first step and I have to get permission to place this on all the iPads we'll use.
2. I have to write this out as a uber-lesson plan. It takes work. Not fun but important. Often changes though for "facts on the ground" in the classroom -- like a military campaign!
3. If the school will only let me do a couple of sessions this will just be elaborate tech-distracted babysitting. I will change their mind or not do it!
For this project I am a teacher first, photographer second. So I need that path: thoink-aim camera-photo capture-pick-show-think again.
Again, thanks for suggestions and support.
Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 04:08:52 PM by jonathan7007
Posts: 6
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #3 on:
December 17, 2012, 04:11:17 AM »
Hey, All... am I allowed to bump this back into view?
I will be teaching photo taking and analysis skills to 4th and 5th grade using iPads. I hope to do the whole loop of shoot, edit, pick one, say why it's good, do better... on the school's iPads. Please see above posts for details.
I sought here any suggestions of kid-friendly photo capture and edit packages for the iPad.
Feedback, anyone?
Thanks in advance.
Sr. Member
Posts: 1125
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #4 on:
December 17, 2012, 05:06:20 AM »
Well, here's a suggestion that will probably be of little or no help to you:
Kids can do, and probably should be able to do, 10 things at a time in order to prepare them for the society they will eventually become a part of and even help shape, voluntary or otherwise. Parents generally can't do 10 things at a time, although the female variety does somewhat better.
So, perhaps these kids need to do this assignment working with ALL current mainstream offerings, thereby learning what's on offer, what functionality is available, and helping them to evaluate the best option for their specific needs. That is something they should learn to be able to do in general. If the eventual objective of the assignment is an evaluative conclusion on the offerings, with a direct individual reward (which product for my particular needs), while at the same time learning about other individual's arguments for selection, then this would make an extremely valuable lesson in general.
If the objective is more about the photographic/art evaluation experience, then I strongly suggest to skip the iPad. It makes for a horrible ergonomic photography device, and most of these kids will eventually (or already do) use mobile phones. In that case I would certainly prefer to use small digicams. Those would better separate the photography workflow from the entire process. Anyway, like I said, probably not very helpful to you.
Oscar Rysdyk
Posts: 6
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #5 on:
December 17, 2012, 05:46:02 AM »
Dear opgr,
I get your idea about evaluation on a higher level than the photo imaging I described. I did teach the kids to work at that kind of target level when I was a full-time 5th grade teacher with a classroom with several computers and our own blog and the next year our own wiki. I did lay out the parameters of this part-time assignment in my posts. I have limits, and public school teaching is full of limits just like the ones I have here, but we teachers do the best we can. Frankly, the powers that be would not allow me to explicitly name those goals you suggest. These kids are just turning nine on up through 10 years old an due to our rural environment and generally low incomes in the area have much less access to personal technology than those in some other environments. And the school doesn't have Photoshop, PS Elements, Lightroom, DxO, GIMP, or any other editing tools on the netbooks that are on the other carts. (The iPads have their own cart.)
Re: iPads. I don't have 25 little digicams. The school doesn't have 25 digicams. I don't have time to write a lot of grant proposals to request money to buy them, as this starts in late January because that's when it starts. It's great that they have the iPads, as goofy as most of us feel that form factor might be. Phones: no phones are allowed out of their backpacks on campus -- if they have one. Just the sight of a phone during the school day gets it confiscated. Most do NOT have phones. They're early nine and up to late ten (years old.)
I am a pro photographer and have taught photography, so I feel hugely lucky to have the chance to work with the kids. I taught elementary for some years after a bunch of years shooting professionally and now I am back to shooting again but I miss working with kids this age, and I always felt the Department of Education was ignoring the whole realm of communication with images.
As I said, I want to teach a good eye AND self [photo]analysis. I want them to follow through on improvements to an idea. This age resists doing anything "over". They write one draft and dig in their heels when asked to improve it with a second or third draft. So here I want them to feel the accomplishment of working an idea. Yes, I will teach some elements of photography, too.
Why did you feel that your comments would be of no use to me?
I would be glad to hear ideas about how this can work better in a group setting like a 40-minute session in a classroom with 25 kids. I know my ideas can be improved. Please consider that just getting all the units out (efficiently) and turned on to start working takes practice for this age.
Aloha from Hawaii,
Sr. Member
Posts: 1125
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #6 on:
December 17, 2012, 06:59:07 AM »
Quote from: jonathan7007 on December 17, 2012, 05:46:02 AM
As I said, I want to teach a good eye AND self [photo]analysis. I want them to follow through on improvements to an idea. This age resists doing anything "over". They write one draft and dig in their heels when asked to improve it with a second or third draft. So here I want them to feel the accomplishment of working an idea. Yes, I will teach some elements of photography, too.
I would very much prefer verbal evaluation in small groups over written evaluation, although I suppose grading may become more problematic. You would ideally want about 5 people in a group. Don't know if that is somehow manageable. The digicams could possibly be supplied by some of the parents. You only need 5 for 5 groups. Otherwise we could start a donation right on this site. I'm sure lots of seemingly obsolete digicams are laying around gathering dust, which could be made to great use for pupils of that age. Heck, that would possibly be a good solution in general: start an organisation where one can send obsolete digicams that will either be used for these kind of projects, or will be correctly dismantled.
An entirely different scenario, which may be totally out-of-the-question considering the context, but which would really be a good preparation for the real world, is to start a kickstarter project with the group. You don't actually need a lot of moneys, and the best results can be rewarded as prints.
Oscar Rysdyk
Peter McLennan
Sr. Member
Posts: 1799
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #7 on:
December 17, 2012, 12:23:52 PM »
I teach night school Photoshop and photography to adults, mainly for fun and to pay for ink. : )
This sounds like a GREAT idea. I'd love to do this with the students I encounter.
The form factor of the iPad is just one of the limitations invoked by any camera and it presents advantages as well as disadvantages. The large scale display allows for immediate and accurate evaluation on a personal or group level. Go with it.
On reflection, it seems an ideal camera for learning the basics of photography. Students get instant feedback on framing, exposure, contrast and story. Too bad printing is so expensive. Kids and the digital revolution notwithstanding, a REAL photograph is a print. One you can hang on the fridge. : )
Regarding software, Photoshop for iPad. $10. Maybe Adobe would help out with bulk or educational pricing here.
The big danger here is that the students would fall in love with Photoshop and forget about the original task, which is to learn to photograph. : )
I hope the iPads are well protected.
Posts: 6
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #8 on:
December 17, 2012, 03:24:55 PM »
Comment are great! Thank you.
My sessions will be 40 min each, once a week, for ALL four fifth grades and ALL four fourth grades: 225 students, including Special Ed. I probably cannot send anyone to the office... I have to have a discussion with the Principal on a few of these logistics details. But I am strict about behavior in a classroom. I have taught this age in my own classroom.
Oskar: I didn't say they would write for my class. I have taught writing and have experience asking kids to "improve" something. They say back, "I did the task." Yes, we will use oral analysis and comment. They will be graded on several axes that I will be clear to them are evaluated. You raise interesting ideas that are beyond the scope of what we are allowed/I have promised to do. The parents don't have lots of cameras, either. I tried to be clear: this is not a town with any extra money and I don't want some kids to have and others not. Plus I have to have aforementioned 225 kids share the capture devices from whatever source. Your idea about an aggregator entity that would move older digicams to schools is interesting. Teachers don't usually want a set of different items to manage, get software updates for, etc. The school will definitely NOT be willing to manage a project with disparate gear. They don't have the IT bandwidth and the teacher mandate does not include any IT complication. I was very different for having a lot of older computers in my classroom -- but it was because I could maintain them. I have four weeks to put this all together. With holidays. With much-missed daughter home from grad school.
Peter: super ideas. Love the viewfinder and I think I might have them make it! Card stock is my friend: fold, cut out the 4:3 rectangle (I will preprint the lines) and they unfold the 8.5x11 sheet to have something to hold up in front of them. I had already made a list like yours: lines, pattern (I love to teach Math so I will weave that in.) Color (we'll talk RGB color wheel for computers as the Art Teacher still uses the yellow blue red configuration. But subjects like that have to grow organically from their experiences, not be lectures. Hmmm, Apple TV. I will ask the school. I think I have to move from room to room, pushing my iPad cart. It's a factor I have to nail down. I could contact Adobe and see where their head is at for inclusion later in the spring. Yes, they might head off into Photoshop la-la land but it would be thrilling for some. AND meet one of my objectives: "photos can fib."
I did want to get to telling stories. I started out in photojournalism. I will bring in the local newspaper, which is not too horrific for pictures. BTW, I did my Masters thesis on newspapers in education, because I long ago worked for a little while at the Boston Globe shooting. Super great time!
I will have to see if I can arrange printing. There are NO color printers out on the network except in a few senior-level offices. That's out, but I have to work out a site they can send to. The fears out there about pix of kids that are "on the Internet" are VERY STRONG. So because there are images of each other the school may not want even one hornet stirred. Even on password-protected sites. Still left to negotiate. See, than I could ask for the ink to print them each week. But keeping track of whose shot I am printing is interesting, unless there's a way to put the kid's name in the EXIF headers. But any instruction on that will not be followed by lots of kids... maybe a good lesson right there! No entry, no print for you.
I hope re:protection I can use Guided Access in iOS6 and yes, I hope the cases can stand the handling... <grin>
Just writing all this is keeping me excited about doing this. Sounds like you get it, too.
Sr. Member
Posts: 324
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #9 on:
December 17, 2012, 05:30:36 PM »
Instead of color printing, why not gray scale on whatever is available ?
Then consider hand "tinting" - always a fun activity at that age.
Posts: 6
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #10 on:
December 17, 2012, 06:24:21 PM »
On the right paper that works and is a cool idea. The cart format is limiting for solutions we can think of. Further, I may not get permission to print these over the school network. Unfortunately now all the IT people are gone until about a week before I have to start this. But I can figure out what to do until they abnswer some of my system questions.
Thanks, again, Frank, for contributing.
Peter McLennan
Sr. Member
Posts: 1799
Re: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions
Reply #11 on:
December 17, 2012, 10:27:32 PM »
Quote from: degrub on December 17, 2012, 05:30:36 PM
Instead of color printing, why not gray scale on whatever is available ?
Then consider hand "tinting" - always a fun activity at that age.
Beauty. This would address any cost complaints by management. BW laser print images are inexpensive per print and the printers are probably more accessible than colour printers on your network. At 600 dpi, they can look pretty good.
Monochrome output would encourage good photographic discipline for the students, too.
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Erik Mullen of Lenox reported vandalism to his Ford Ranger after 2 a.m. Friday.
According to a Lenox Police report, Mullen's windshield was shattered, tires slashed and paint keyed. Police are unable to identify any suspects.
Lenox police request any witnesses that may have seen or heard anything involving this incident to contact Lenox Police Department at (641) 333-2929.
Walter Malacara, 22, and Wendy Malacara, 25, both of Lenox, were charged for domestic assault causing injury 5:15 p.m. Saturday.
According to a Lenox Police report, police responded to a domestic disturbance in the 100 block of South Walnut Street. An investigation showed a physical altercation had taken place between the adult brother and sister while at their mother's residence.
Walter Malacara was transported to Taylor County Jail and Wendy Malacara was transported to Ringgold County Jail. Both are being held without bond pending an appearance before a judge.


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A "nightmare weekend" at Monza dealt Lewis Hamilton's hopes of winning the 2013 title a near fatal blow...
A "nightmare weekend" at Monza dealt Lewis Hamilton's hopes of winning the 2013 title a near fatal blow.
Although he was there or thereabouts during the practice sessions, a mistake in Q2 saw him fail to make it through to the final qualifying stint and he eventually started the race in P12.
Things didn't go much better on Sunday as he suffered slow puncture early on and was forced to change his strategy to a two-stopper.
Although he managed to fight his way back during the latter stages of the race, he left the Italian track with only two points after finishing P9. That leaves him 81 points behind Championship leader Sebastian Vettel with just seven races left.
Hamilton was very philosophical about his troubles the entire weekend.
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He added: "It was a difficult weekend. I am ninth, we should have been much further ahead I am very disappointed with myself. I blew it in qualifying and it was impossible to make up the places. Overall it was a disaster of a weekend."
Hamilton was also forced to drive the entire race without being able to communicate with his team on the pit wall.
"It's almost like driving blind, you don't know when to pit, when to push and what is going on. It's awful when you are just empty of energy and have given everything for just two places and that's it for the Championship now,' he said.
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Comments about Blu Dot Couchoid Lounge Chair:
Furniture is as cool in person as it is on the website. The crisp lines and modern look are perfect for our tech office. We bought the couch to match and everyone likes the look so far. The set definitely looks great in the office and seats up to 6 between the two lounge chairs and the couch. The chair back is fairly low and the chair sits very low. Peeps are 50-50 on how they like that.


text: Anyone staying on the beach looking to share a ride to the Stadium around 10 to tailgate. I am staying at Sole On the Ocean in Sunny Isles. It's not incredibly far from the stadium but would love to share a cab instead of paying for parking and rental or cab.


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Your Partnership with the American Lung Association
When you join the American Lung Association in the fight for healthy lungs and clean air, you help save lives today and keep America healthy tomorrow. Throughout our long history of dedicated service to healthy air and lungs, the American Lung Association has earned the support and dedication of those committed to overall health and wellness. Consumers demonstrate loyalty to a brand that partners with their charity of choice. We are that charity. This is your chance to be that brand.
Enhance Your Image
Consumers are more likely to view your brand positively when associated with an established and well-respected charity.
Get Noticed
Sponsoring an American Lung Association event allows you to extend your reach to families, individuals and businesses across the region.
Set yourself above your competitors and build employee and company morale by contributing to an important cause.
Grow Your Green Side
Clean air affects everyone; work with us toward a better future. Clean air means healthy lungs.
Stretch Your Advertising Dollar
The estimated value of each sponsorship level will far exceed your initial investment
Why Sponsor?
Non-profit event marketing is an excellent way to reach customers. With a sponsorship at an American Lung Association event, a corporation engages in customer-experience marketing that targets exactly the desired consumer base. The face-to-face exposure that comes with sponsoring an American Lung Association event provides a company with a hands-on, entertaining, and compelling branding experience that is unmatched by traditional marketing methods.
The programs and events that the American Lung Association offers allows you, as a sponsor, to hone in on your target audience.
Our Paticipants, Your Customers
American Lung Association event participants and donors are upper-income, well-educated, health-conscious, and civic-minded consumers.
Surveys* say 69% of consumers are more likely to buy a product associated with a well-respected charity.
86% of respondents recognize the American Lung Association as a source of health information.
By partnering with us, purchaser intent nearly tripled for major brands that featured the American Lung Association logo.


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"Cross Pen Set"
By Diane Wedding
Comments: This set was exactly what we were looking for. The cost was inline with others that we looked at however I felt the shipping cost was a bit high. Item was received before the date that had been stated.


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Home > Home Office > Laptop Cases > Laptop Sleeves > Toffee Genuine Leather Envelope Case for 13" MacBook Air
Toffee Genuine Leather Envelope Case for 13" MacBook Air
Protect your MacBook Air® with this stylish Leather envelope.
Sleek and Slim. Fits like a glove.
Designed in Sydney Australia, the toffee sleeve has been developed with fashion and function in mind. Created from high quality genuine leather, and handmade by skilled craftsmen, care and attention has been paid to even the smallest details. And unlike most things, the natural leather appearance improves with age! Indulge in superior craftsmanship and luxurious style.
- Superbly handcrafted from genuine pebble-grain leather
- Premium interior padding and lining
- High quality YKK zip with zip liner to protect your notebook from scratches
- Distinctive slim-line toffee design
- Carry as a stand-alone or place inside your bag
- Custom fit for 13" MacBook Air/Pro<®/li>
- Fits your MacBook like a glove
- Comes in various colours to suit your style
- Materials: Genuine leather, Polyester lining
Weight: 0.55 lbs.
MacBook Air/Pro are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.
Toffee Genuine Leather Envelope Case for 13" MacBook Air
Toffee Genuine Leather Envelope Case for 13" MacBook Air
Our innovative products will provide you and your family with years of enjoyment. And with the Brookstone Protection Plus service and replacement plans, you'll have the added peace of mind knowing that if the unexpected does happen, we will simply repair or replace your covered product. Our enhanced coverage goes above and beyond the manufacturer's warranty, saving you time and money.
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Laurie LaRusso, MS, ELS
A groin strain is a partial or complete tear of the small fibers of the adductor muscles. The adductors are a group of muscles located on the inner side of the thigh. They start in the groin area and run down the inner thigh to attach to the inner side of the knee.
Groin strain is a common sports-related injury. Treatment depends on the severity of the strain.
Copyright © Nucleus Medical Media, Inc.
A groin strain can be caused by:
Factors that may increase your chance of developing a groin strain include:
Symptoms may include:
The doctor will ask about your symptoms and medical history. A physical exam will be done.
Most groin strains can be diagnosed with a physical exam. Your doctor may want images of the area if severe damage is suspected. Images may be taken with
Muscle strains are graded according to their severity:
Talk with your doctor about the best treatment plan for you. Recovery time ranges depending on the grade of your injury. Treatment steps may include:
Your muscle will need time to heal. Avoid activities that place extra stress on these muscles:
Apply an ice or a cold pack to the area for 15-20 minutes, four times a day, for several days after the injury. Do not apply the ice directly to your skin. Wrap the ice or cold pack in a towel.
To manage pain, your doctor may recommend:
Use heat only when you are returning to physical activity. Heat may then be used before stretching or getting ready to play sports to help loosen the muscle.
When the acute pain is gone, start gentle stretching as recommended. Stay within pain limits. Hold each stretch for about 10 seconds and repeat six times. Stretch several times a day.
Begin strengthening exercises for your muscles as recommended.
If you are diagnosed with a groin strain, follow your doctor's
To help reduce your chance of getting a groin strain, take the following steps:
American Academy of Family Physicians Family Doctor
American Council on Exercise
Health Canada
Canadian Physiotherapy Association
Muscle strains in the thigh. American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons Ortho Info website. Available at:
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00366. Update August 2007. Accessed April 25, 2013.
Sports-related groin pain. EBSCO DynaMed website. Available at:
http://www.ebscohost.com/dynamed/what. Updated January 20, 2010. Accessed April 25, 2013.
O'Kane JW.
Anterior hip pain.
Am Fam Physician. 1999;60:1687-1696.
1/4/2011 DynaMed's Systematic Literature Surveillance
: Massey T, Derry S, Moore R, McQuay H. Topical NSAIDs for acute pain in adults.
Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2010;(6):CD007402.
Last reviewed February 2014 by Michael Woods, MD
Please be aware that this information is provided to supplement the care provided by your physician. It is neither intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. CALL YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER IMMEDIATELY IF YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider prior to starting any new treatment or with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
Copyright © EBSCO Publishing. All rights reserved.
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The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
CHEE HOO!!! It's Official the Hilo Coffee Mill has installed a 9 Hole (9 baskets with Am and Pro tees making ).
It's mostly wide open with some fun and challenging elevation changes. Great distances, loads of O.B., WINDY and, it even has a creek with occasional water.
I made a generous donation to pay for aggregate with rubber mat tee pads today.
Pictures to follow over the next couple of weeks so stay posted.
Views: 288
Ooops! (9 baskets with Am and Pro tees making it an actual 18 hole course.)
Awesome and Congrats!!! Hope to make it that way some time to play it!!! :)
thanks for the support Jeff. looking forward to playing a round or two with you.
played this course last thursday , and let me say "it is so nice to play with baskets !" safari let me know when there is a work day . i will be glad to help mow the #4 fairway , that thing is pretty ruff still !
and you can show hilo coffee mill some disc golf love by liking them on facebook .
I lovedthe Hilo Coffee Mill the day we played there and just liked them on Facebook.
Maybe Mason is in charge of work days? you might want to hit him up find out.
I'll be up there Wednesday laying the groundwork for school programs and Saturday clinics for the kieki (kids). Biking up from Keaau around 11:00am after my meeting with middle school.
see you on saturday . i would love to play today but disc golfing doesn't pay the bills , but saturday i'm down for a round with you safari !
Hopefully the #4 fairway will get mowed this week sometime. But hope for the best and prep for the worst so calling all disc golfers playing the coffee mill this Saturday; if you have a lawn mower or weed eater and can help us out with an hour or so of course grooming before the round it will be much apreaciated. Also here is the newist version of the course map complete with Am tee pad locations.
Coming out the end of October for vacation. Can't wait to play some disc golf in paradise.
© 2015 Created by Terry "the Pirate" Calhoun.


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Pickwick Chevron Wool Rug
- No Longer Available -
Meticulously hand loomed, this pure wool flatweave has the smooth feel and zigzag pattern of vintage herringbone tweed. Alternating soft color and ivory, the thick, durable weave is finished with matching hand-stitched binding. Slightly uneven edges enhance its casual, handcrafted look.
Show product details...
- Available in 4 sizes: 5' x 8', 6' x 9', 8' x 10' and 9' x 12'
Shown in toast.
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Tours & Packages
- Cultural exploration
- Ecotourism / Green travel
- Golf
- Learning activities
- Medical tourism
- Meditation
- Outdoor & Adventure Activities - Air activities
- Outdoor & Adventure Activities - Land activities
- Outdoor & Adventure Activities - Water activities
- Sailing and Cruises
- Self drive
- Shopping
- Spa and Wellness
- Weddings & Honeymoons
Boat - Rice Barge Cruise
Tour Overview :
Program: Boat - Rice Barge Cruise (BHDWF1)
* Special Price : 650 THB/Adult and 600 THB/Child (4-10 Yrs) (Without Round Trip Transfer from/to any hotel)
* Special Price : 800 THB/Adult and 750 THB/Child (With Round Trip Transfer from/to any hotel) (Normal Price: 900 THB)
Departure Date :
Day by Day Itinerary :
Date 1 : 14.30 p.m. - 16.30 p.m.
Rice Barge River Cruise (BHDWF1)
This afternoon tour allow you to experience The timeless world of "the Venice of the East" The most exciting, spectacular, and vibrant experience trip, a trip nothing to comparison an memorable experience of a lifetime, a dream come true.
Trip start at 2.30pm. At river city pier by long tail speed boat, pass various canal temples. You will touch a great on the water-way and see Thai people at home along the canals. We will visit Klongmon Canal - Bangkhunsri Canal, Klongchak - Pra Canal - Bangkok-noi Canal and then moves to rice barge boat at Wat Keelex then go along the Chao Phraya River while you are enchanting with the natural beauty cruising past the royal barge museum, the Grand palace, the temple of dawn and then back to the River city at 04.30 p.m. Rice barge offer the best in Thai tropical Fresh fruits in season and join our cocktail by the great variety and range of spirit to go with your trip.
You sit comfortable and amusingly before moving to our classical original location rice barge. You feel very impressive with unforgettable memory, funny and Amusing tour for the casual atmosphere and the natural beauty that can't to find out in your normal life.


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The place to find all the top picks and hot spots in Las Vegas. Las Vegas Hot Spots offers comprehensive information on Las Vegas Casinos, Hotels, and Clubs.
Vegas Hot Spots provides the vital information that'll help you cruise Vegas's Night Life like a seasoned player. If you are flying into Vegas for a Corporate Event and want to do something special for your customers and prospects, or you are planning a sales meeting or incentive trip to Vegas, you want the most memorable and successful experience possible. Vegas Hot Spots Corporate Events Planning will guide you to the hottest shows, and the best places to get lucky in Las Vegas.


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Some product exclusions may apply. See product page details for more information. Clearance items are final sale. Price matching does not apply to this or any promotion. Offer is valid until September 13 at 11:59 PM PST. May not be combined with any other offer/discount (unless specified), including invitation credits, promotional gift cards and/or special discount links. Discount applied upon checkout. Log in to your account to see your savings.
Do you ever look at your dog napping on the couch, snarfing down treats, or frolicking in the park and think to yourself, "Man, I wish I could be dog for a day"? Go ahead, walk in your canine's paws with the Rottweiler Face Tee. Thanks to The Mountain's unique printing process, it's hard to tell where the print ends and the shirt begins on this amazingly lifelike tee. Throw this puppy on, hit the dog park, and be one with the pooches.
T-shirt has an over-sized relaxed fit, with reinforced double stitching on all seams. Pre-shrunk (washed and dried after dyeing).
The Mountain was founded in the mid-'70s by childhood friends Michael Gallan and Michael Krinsky, who started selling handcrafted hippie wares on New Jersey boardwalks. Now based in New Hampshire, the company has evolved into a thriving T-shirt manufacturer, employing innovative printing techniques and featuring original, artist-designed motifs on its garments.
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Sounds From Down Under: Five Australian Bands You Should Know
Sounds From Down Under: Five Australian Bands You Should Know
In between the koala bears and kangaroos, some killer bands are just waiting to be discovered down under. Australia is a hotbed for musical talent across every genre. Artists like psychedelic rockers, Tame Impala, electro-pop duo Cut Copy and country superstar, Keith Urban are all born-and-bred Aussies. Wonder what's going on in Oz's music scene? Check out our list of Five Australian Bands You Should Know.
1. Atlas Genius
Atlas Genius is an indie rock band hailing from Adelaide, South Australia. The duo consists of key vocalist and guitarist, Keith Jeffery and his hyper-talented brother, Michael Jeffery on drums. What started off as a passion that helped pay the bills--they'd cover songs by The Police, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones at local pubs for cash--soon turned into the career of their dreams. After releasing their debut single, "Trojans" in May of 2011 MTV aired the video and the song hit Billboard's Alternative Songs Chart at number 4. The group is now signed to Warner Bros. Records and released their debut EP, Through The Glass on June 2012.
Stream their single "Symptoms" on YouTube and catch them touring in the US this summer.
2. Iggy Azalea
Iggy Azalea, born Amethyst Amelia Kelly is a rapper from Sydney, Australia. She left home to pursue her music career in Miami on a short-term US visa and hit it big when her self-made YouTube videos went viral. The release of her debut mixtape, Ignorant Art, landed her a spot on XXL's '12 Freshman Class list. She's a bit of an anomaly, rapping verses that reference her love of Tupac and carrying herself like a runway model at the same damn time. Technically--she really is a model now that she's signed to Wilhelmina's Talent Modeling agency. In 2013 Azalea was named the face of Levi's jeans. She paired up with Diplo to produce her second mixtape TrapGold and is expected to drop her debut album The New Classic in September 2013. In the mean time, word on the street is that the young hip-hop artist is spending some time in London.
Watch the Bollywood-themed video for her latest single "Bounce" on YouTube and check out Green Lantern's trap remix for some added bass.
3. Bad//Dreems
Bad//Dreems are a new band from Adelaide who're on the road to hitting it big. Known for their raw and powerful grunge rock, they've garnered comparisons to Nirvana. It's a lofty compliment for an emerging band, and the world should get prepared for what they're soon bringing our way.
Watch their latest video "Hoping For," on YouTube and stay tuned for tour updates.
4. Rat & Co
Hailing from Melbourne, Rat & Co is the musical brainchild of Joshua Delaney. Quickly gaining momentum in both the US and Europe alike, Rat & Co's draw is their melodic and delicate collision of electro and hip-hop. Influenced by Los Angeles' electronic scene, what started as a one man band soon turned into a group of four. John Waller heads up lead guitar, while Nick Park holds it down on the drums, Kala McCarty-Smith supports on guitar and Joshua heads the group as lead vocalist.Check out "Now You're Dreaming," on YouTube.
5. The Rubens
The Rubens are a four-piece alternative rock band straight out of Menangle, New South Wales. Comprised of three siblings with an uncanny chemistry The Rubens are Zaac, Sam and Elliot as well as a childhood friend Scott Baldwin. They grew up playing music together all the time, giving them a more seasoned vibe than most up-and-coming bands. It also doesn't hurt to have the help of David Kahne, who produced for Paul McCartney, The Strokes, and Regina Spektor, to name a few. Kahne produced their single "Lay It Down." Their debut self-titled album gained The Rubens domestic success, the album reaching the number three slot on the ARIA Charts and is nominated for a J Award. It seems like the sky's the limit for this mostly-in-the-family quartet. Catch them on tour in the US with Grouplove this summer.


text: Employment Current Openings from the Office of Career Services are listed below Posted: 2/21/2012NY1 News/Web Writer/New York, New York JOB TITLE: Web Writer COMPANY: NY1 News LOCATION: New York, NY TO APPLY: www.timewarnercable.com/careers, Requisition # 133616BR SUMMARY Copyedits stories from on-air scripts, and publishes them to NY1 website. Encodes video packages that are aired on the news channel and loads them onto site. Orders news stories on site to create an informative user experience. Writes original stories in breaking news situations. Updates copy as stories change. Works with reporters, producers and editors to produce factual, clear, interesting news stories within the required time frame. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITES Editorial · Prepares news and features stories based on on-air scripts and information provided by the assignment desk, wire services, newspapers, press releases, NY1 archives and footage shot in the field. · Copyedits on-air scripts correcting for accuracy, clarity, factual content, grammar and spelling while maintaining editorial standards and reporter's personal style. · Writes original news stories in AP print style during breaking news situations. · Uses editorial judgment to place news stories on site in proper order to create a clear, informative user experience. · Updates stories as news changes. · Uses social media tools to deliver content to social networks. · Produces special editorial content and expanded sections on an as-needed basis. · Maintains highest degree of quality and ethical standards in presentation of material. · Reads local newspapers to keep up to date with New York City news. · Utilizes knowledge of Internet and website trends to keep site competitive. Production · Operates NY1.com's content management system for publication of stories. · Uses NY1's newsroom management application to access source material. · Encodes video clips for website using newsroom video tools. · Captures still images from video clips for stories. · Uses file transfer program to upload files to web servers as necessary. · Monitors website and publishing tools to ensure proper operation. EDUCATION AND/OR EXPERIENCE • College degree • Degree in Journalism, Communication or English preferred. • 1-2 years newsroom experience: internship, field work, or freelance. • TV or radio experience. • Experience writing copy, editing, shooting, collecting elements and putting packages together. • Experience researching, creating news stories and making basic editorial decisions. Business Job No. 1842


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- 2
- people in the U.S. have this name View Jacqueline Journigan on Whitepages
Meaning & Origins
Originally a French feminine diminutive form of Jacques, the French version of James. In the 1960s it became very popular in the United States and elsewhere, influenced in part by the fame and stylish image of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis (1929–94), whose family was of French extraction.
|152nd in the U.S.
The meaning of this name is unavailable
|65,248th in the U.S.
Nicknames & variations
Jacquelyn, Jacquelin, Jacquelinea, Jacquline, Jacquelynn, Jacqulyn, Jacquelyne, Jacqualine, Jacqulin, Jacquiline
Jourdan, Journey, Jourdain, Journet, Jourden, Journell, Journeay, Journic, Journagan, Journee


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Keep your look crisp and sharp by wearing this handsome pair of Cooper Square Longwing Boot for men. The leather upper with elegant wingtip reflective construction and brogue detailing makes this pair first choice for every fashion loving men.
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Anna Camp and Michael Mosley (Getty Images)
The actress, 30, and "30 Rock" actor Michael Mosley are ending their three-year marriage.
Mosley, 34, filed the divorce papers with the Los Angeles County Superior Court on April 23, naming New Year's Day as the date of their separation and citing irreconcilable differences as the cause, According to court documents obtained by E! News.
Omg! has reached out to Camp's rep for comment.
Camp had a big year in 2012, from starring as the puking leader of the Bellas in "Pitch Perfect," to recurring gigs on "True Blood," "The Mindy Project," and "Vegas." Mosley, for his part, has appeared on multiple TV shows including "Revolution," "Happy Endings," and "Justified," to name a few.
The two thespians got engaged in September 2008 and were married on January 29, 2010. They have no children.
More Features on Yahoo!:
- Lindsay Lohan Avoids Jail, But Checks Into Non-Approved Rehab
- Gwyneth Paltrow Talks 'Terrible Times' in Marriage
- Reese Witherspoon on Her Arrest: 'I Said All Kinds of Crazy Things'
- Arts & Entertainment


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Red Dead......It oozes AWESOMENESS!!!!
As relatively casual gamer that usually sticks to sports games I have to plug
Mass Effect Series. I had my doubts and bought this on some bargain collection. Awesome series. Like a first person shooter connected to an interactive movie.
Red Dead Redemption. Super Dark. Kind of Western Gothic. When you get the Zombie add on it becomes like a horror flick. The best part about it is all these mysterious little eggs in this game.
Next question. How does installing games work? For example, do I need to install both discs of The Witcher 2?
As a follow up, why the **** won't the xbox read the second disc?


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Help Build a Well in Afghanistan
Roll over image to zoom in
Bring clean water to families who have fled the Taliban.
Afghanistan has been at war for a generation. In order to break the cycles of violence and of dependence on foreign aid, grassroots efforts need to be taken -- efforts focused on women and families, and on giving the tools for Afghans to survive and even thrive. Clean water is one of these tools.
Women of Hope is a nonprofit dedicated to empowering families, especially women, living under Taliban oppression. Women of Hope has already installed a well at a refugee camp for the Kuchi people inside the Kabul city limits. Now they hope to bring the gift of clean water to another refugee camp that is even worse off -- located past Karte Nau but still within the Kabul City limits.
These people have fled the Taliban from Helmand and Khandahar with little more than what they could carry. There were approximately 200 families there as of early December 2009, and more have been coming every week. Since there is no local water source, they must walk long distances with wheelbarrows to acquire it. A well in the camp would be an inestimable blessing in a country where women and girls are not allowed to venture outside their homes without being escorted by a male relative.
You can help. $12 funds 1/100th of the cost of constructing a 100-meter well in a refugee camp in Afghanistan, giving the gift of clean water to some of the poorest of the poor. Women of Hope would like to install one well for every 50 families, totaling at least 4 wells at this location.
Women of Hope Project is dedicated to restoring hope, dignity and empowerment to Afghan women and children. Its goal is to end hunger and poverty by teaching women and providing opportunities to promote self sufficiency and self-esteem.
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Interpretive Handbook
8918 :
Carcinoembryonic Antigen (CEA), Spinal Fluid
Clinical Information Discusses physiology, pathophysiology, and general clinical aspects, as they relate to a laboratory test
Carcinoembryonic antigen (CEA) normally is present in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in very low concentrations. Elevations in serum CEA can cause passive transfer to CSF. Tumors of the brain, especially metastatic tumors, can elevate CSF CEA.
Useful For Suggests clinical disorders or settings where the test may be helpful
Detecting meningeal carcinomatosis, intradural or extradural infiltration, or brain parenchymal metastasis from adenocarcinoma or squamous-cell carcinoma
Interpretation Provides information to assist in interpretation of the test results
Increased values are seen in approximately 60% of patients with meningeal carcinomatosis.
Cautions Discusses conditions that may cause diagnostic confusion, including improper specimen collection and handling, inappropriate test selection, and interfering substances
Although the assay appears to be specific for adenocarcinoma and squamous cell carcinoma, increased carcinoembryonic antigen (CEA) values in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) are not seen in all patients with such tumors of the brain.
Mildly elevated CEA values in CSF may be secondary to passive transfer from the serum in individuals with high serum CEA concentrations.
Some patients who have been exposed to animal antigens, either in the environment or as part of treatment or imaging procedure, may have circulating anti-animal antibodies present. These antibodies may interfere with the assay reagents to produce unreliable results.
Reference Values Describes reference intervals and additional information for interpretation of test results. May include intervals based on age and sex when appropriate. Intervals are Mayo-derived, unless otherwise designated. If an interpretive report is provided, the reference value field will state this.
<0.6 ng/mL
Tumor markers are not specific for malignancy, and values may vary by method.
Clinical References Provides recommendations for further in-depth reading of a clinical nature
1. Klee GG, Tallman RD, Goellner JR, Yanagihara T: Elevation of carcinoembryonic antigen in cerebrospinal fluid among patients with meningeal carcinomatosis. Mayo Clin Proc 1986;61:9-13
2. Go VLW, Zamcheck N: The role of tumor markers in the management of colorectal cancer. (Cancer 50[Suppl 1]);1982:2618-2623
3. Moertel CG, et al: An evaluation of the carcinoembryonic antigen (CEA) test for monitoring patients with resected colon cancer. JAMA 1993;270:943-947