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Creston's city budget, which is subject to final approval after a public hearing March 5, includes $1.5 million to begin infrastructure work on the Cottonwood subdivision despite slight cuts in overall city revenue.
Revenue for the city of Creston has decreased slightly because, for one thing, the property-tax levy has gone down by 57 cents per $1,000 of assessed valuation, from $13.52 to $12.95. The estimated property tax revenue for fiscal year 2014 is $2,209,372 compared to $2,280,388 in fiscal year 2013. Total estimated revenue is $14.8 million compared to $15.4 million this year. Mike Taylor, city administrator, also attributes the decrease in revenue to a lack of grants available and the end of existing grant programs.
"We've got plans to do a bond issue for Cottonwood," Taylor said.
As development plans for the Cottonwood subdivision come together, Creston City Council will eventually vote on how to fund the infrastructure and whether or not they plan to seek a bond.
The proposed city budget is $16,330,337, or 5 percent less than the current fiscal year's budget, which City Administrator Mike Taylor contributes to conservative spending.
The proposed $16.3 million spending plan for the new fiscal year beginning July 1 also includes funds for replacement equipment for Creston Parks and Recreation and water waste treatment plant, parts for Creston Fire Department's new fire truck, facility improvements to the city's animal shelter and community pool, road surface repairs, historic structure survey of city hall, new computer equipment for city personnel such as Creston Police Department, an increase in library book funds and an archery program.
Culture and recreation are facing a serious reduction this year in comparison to last, but it is not what you think.
"Part of that is misleading," said Taylor. "A tornado hit and we had a million dollars worth of damage to the YMCA, which (the building) is owned by the city. And we had expenses in 2013 that won't be there (in the current budget)."
The same reductions in revenue and and expenditures appear now that the Water Works department, which is part of the city budget, is no longer working on the 12-mile and Summit Lake projects.
"There's not a whole lot of change in this budget," said Taylor. "There are no drastic reductions, no cuts to programs or staffing."
Improvement project
"It's been quite some time since we have restored city hall," said Taylor. "There is some wear and tear on the building, especially on the back side."
Because Creston's Restored Depot is a historic building, the city seeks to sign a contract to perform a historic structure survey of the building. Taylor said the survey, which will cost approximately $9,000, will help the city prepare specifications and understand what kind of repairs are needed to keep it historic. One engineering firm has already put together a proposal for the depot restoration project to the tune of $90,000. The survey will help determine what needs to be done and what projects are priority.
"We think that because it is a historic building and tourists visit, it would make good use of some tourism money," said Taylor. "It may not cost the taxpayers anything."
Proposals are also being made to add upgrades to Creston's pool.
"We are going to do a few things," said Taylor. "The biggest expense is a new roof on the pool."
According to Taylor, additional shade at the pool has been a frequent request. Because of this, the city has budgeted for a 20- foot, semi-permanent umbrella.
"We are also going to roof on some of the shelter houses in the park," he added.
Improvement projects will also hit the streets of Creston.
The road repair budget has been increased slightly, which is funded by road-use tax and some local option sales tax.
"We did 50 blocks last year of oil and tar on local roads and there's another 200 blocks that need to be done," said Taylor.
According to Taylor, some roads with curbs have just been asphalted over, causing the curb to disappear. With no curb, water runs off the edge and damages the foundation of the road.
While not all 200 roads will be prepared this year, Iowa State University will perform a road-surfacing-conditions study to prioritize which of the roads are in most need of improvements.
Culture and recreation
According to Taylor, Gibson Memorial Library used to have a book budget of $20,000, which has been reduced over the years.
"This year we are proposing an increase from $9,000 to $13,500," said Taylor.
At the Parks and Recreation Department, an archery program on the south end of McKinley Lake is in the works.
"We've worked with our insurance people and think we have a place picked out," said Taylor. "It won't be very expensive, but I bet we get quite a bit donated."
Police and fire
Police and fire departments will see a 4 percent increase in their retirement funds this year, which is state mandated.
Additionally, the city is looking to upgrade its computer equipment, which includes the law enforcement center.
"The current one is over seven years old," said Taylor. "We've already extended and really pushed it."
Approximately $20,000 has been allocated to upgrade equipment at city hall and Union County Law Enforcement Center. Part of that will be spent on a new system for police business, such as real-time reporting and license plate checks right from squad cars.
Public hearing
"The public can ask questions and we are here to explain," said Taylor.
Taylor said, if there is enough objection, the only thing that can be done is to reduce the budget.
"When it comes down to it, the levy (on property taxes) is coming down," said Taylor. "But expenses just keep going up and up."
The city budget public hearing will be held during Creston City Council's regularly scheduled meeting ….. p.m. Tuesday at the restored Creston Depot. Copies of the budget are available at city hall or Gibson Memorial Library.


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Step 1: Obtain Kombucha starter
The starter replicates itself in each batch, so one is enough for your lifetime. Soon you'll have enough for everyone you know!
I'm trying to find how to grow a mother from scratch, really from scratch, without buying a pre-made bottle. It must be possible to grow a mother without buying a mother or getting from a batch of kombucha? How did our ancestors start a batch???!!! I see Instructable posted below that a mother will grow on its own in a batch of sweet tea (without adding a mother or bottle of store bought kombucha), has anyone else tried this method? Please share, thank you! Also, are there sugar alternatives, like honey, that can be used??? Looking to make as pure (healthy and natural) as possible, thanks!
There aren't many things, so healthy, that are this simple. The yeast grows on the nutrients dissolved in the culture of boiled tea leaves plus sugar, right?
Make some tea or even use the remainder of some tea leftovers. Basically, to make a mother, a very small one at first, brew 1 tea bag in 1 cup of water and add 3 tsp of unrefined sugar in a clean jar covered with cheese cloth kept in place with a rubber band or a string tied around the top/lip. Let it sit in a dark place, allowed to "breathe" until a strange-at-first foam appears on top, in a few days it solidifies. That's the baby Kombucha mother, more or less yellow-beige and slimy. It will have a distinct sour, vinegary smell, and if you smelled it before you will be able to recognize it. Taste a tea spoon of it to make sure it's Kombucha and/or wash the tea spoon and ask another connoisseur.
Just to pass on a warning, I understand some people achieved growing something else in such a culture – cool! I have not seen anything but a Kombucha culture come out of the following recipe. If it looks or smells more like mold than vinegar I would seek advice. For me, that had never been a problem. If it somehow got contaminated, be brave and throw the whole thing away. Start all over and keep it clean.
To make a few glasses of Kombucha, just to give you approximate proportions (and do experiment to find your own favorite) for a gallon jar (my favs are sun-tea jars with a tap) brew 4-7 teabags or tsps of black tea in a separate wide-mouth bottle, jar or a coffee pot, along with a cup of any, hopefully not very processed, sugar. Let it cool off to room temp, then gently pour all of the above into the jar along with the Kombucha mother and the liquid it's in. For a sure new â€start†never transport the mother alone without it's liquid. Cover the jar with a cheese cloth or whatever will let Kombucha breathe and keep bacteria, mold and tiny fruit flies away. Let it sit for 1 to 3 weeks, taste it by pouring out a sip at a time, do not drink form the Kombucha jar – keep it as sterile as reasonable.
Once you make your first batch, you may well wish to experiment. Here are some of the main variables:
1. The size of Kombucha mother mushroom. Of course the bigger it is the faster it will eat up the sugar, ferment, convert it into the elixir we know. But if it gets too thick, more than 2†or so (and in the right conditions it grows quite fast) it may not be able to â€breathe,†so it's lowest part will look not too appetizing, which means it's time to either give a horizontal slice of it to a friend or start another jar!
You can make it a batch at a time or pour yourself a cup or more every day if you add as much brewed tea and sugar back. In case of batch making, you will get a new layer of mother with every batch, then you can discard the lower portion or let it â€seed†a new Kombucha mother. The lower, older mother may look like it died making a new one. Actually, it being a conglomeration of billions microorganisms -- they just traveled upwards, towards the air.
The horizontal size of the mother will be only as big as the surface air it can reach.
2. Second biggest variable is the amount of sugar, simply put, the more sugar the â€stronger†is faster your Kombucha will develop. Experiment.
3. Time it is allowed to ferment determines it's acidity, effervescence, alcohol content (usually .5% to 1.5%) and taste. When you like the taste, remove (possibly, not necessarily, using a sieve) all but a couple of cups from the Kombucha jar (now it's ready to start another batch) and pour them into smaller bottles with good lids (no metal touching nowhere.) Let them sit at room temp for a couple of days, to increase effervescence and sharpen taste, or refrigerate them right away. Again, experiment, it is hard to go wrong, some of your â€bad†batches may taste better than some commercial ones!
4. Try different teas and additional flavors, like ginger, mint, lemon, et cet, added before or after brewing. To be honest, I have not ventured that far to be an expert of what is best before or after.
5. Your ingredients and patience (or forgetfulness) will determine the final taste.
6. Last but not least is the temperature during brewing/fermentation. Warmer, but not too warm (70-85F) is best, whereas slightly below room temp is not a problem, but will certainly take longer to ferment.
Fermentation depends on these variables in a very simple way, higher temp –or- more sugar –or- more time = more fermentation. Too much or too little of either may prevent proper fermentation. In hot climate, it may be advisable to brew it slower, like in a cool/cold basement or the lower part of the fridge.
1. Do not use anything that may have or had preservatives – it will harm Kombucha, possibly producing a dubiously-healthy mold.
2. Keep everything clean, very preferably all glass. Kombucha is both sweet and acidic – it will dissolve some plastic and may imbed or damage wooden or rubber surfaces.
Try not to touch the culture or the brew to decrease the risk of contamination. When you transport it, and simply pouring it out is not possible, handle it's slimy layers only with freshly soap-washed hands. Enjoy the feeling!
3. Use boiled water to evaporate the chlorine in tap water. Bottled or clean well water should be fine.
4. The Kombucha mother is a friendly yeast colony, a live culture – treat it lovingly, really.
5. Use everything organic. Did somebody actually ask why?
Enjoy, may you be healthy!
You can make more kombucha by using a commercial bottle of kombucha. There is enough viable culture swimming in that liquid. Get as many of the "floaties" you can into your brewing jar and just start feeding it.
My own caveats about this -- potential downsides of this method:
- Low success rate for novices to the brewing process
- Much higher chances for contamination since the culture is very weak
- Takes a long time (up to 30 days) to generate a strong mother
Whenever possible, and especially if you are a newbie to the world of kombucha, acquire a strong mother rather than trying to generate one from a commercial liquid.
And if you still want to try doing kombucha this way, see if you can make friends with someone who's been into it for a while -- you'll benefit from their experience and intuition, because they'll be able to tell you whether the brewing process is going well.
Also while he says it only takes 5 days from the foam to form, til you have a small mother, he doesnt say how long time it takes for it to form the foam, but i doubt it would take 3 weeks for the foam to form.
At any rate this is an interesting experiment and I now have 3 cups of tea hidden away in a cupboard, heh
I personally hate kombucha, but my best friend LOVES it (ever since she got a boyfriend who also loves it), so I'll be making this for her birthday!
Brewing tea in a metal pot is fine because there are no cultures during that stage.
That's why you add some of your previous batch into your new batch to bring up the acidity.
It's the Bergamot oil which floats to the surface (as oil does) and cuts off oxygen for the yeast and bacteria.
I have been trying to get a batch ok kombucha started for about a week and a half now, and I'm not sure if its working =/ I used a bottle of the store-bought stuff to get started, because I have no other "kombucha friendly" friends or family. I was wondering which "Bay area" you are in. I'm sorry if you have already posted this, but I didn't see it. Anyways, thank you all for any help.
-Someone who really wants kombucha.
Most commercial distilled spirits are full of alcohols and other compounds you don't want. It is those compounds that cause headaches and other hangover symptoms. don't fool yourself into thinking you aren't drinking wood alcohol too...
The better spirits must be distilled a large number of times to get the bad alcohol seperated from the good. Very little that you can buy in the liquior store has been properly purified. There is one brand of vodka that is almost free of wood alcohol and other contaminates... It's made in texas, and they have a great website that talks about this contamination issue.

subset: commoncrawl


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Chlamydia can affect both men and women.
Once transmitted to women though, Chlamydia may cause Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID), which could mean they can't have children.
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It is spread by having unprotected sex with someone who has the infection. It may not be obvious that they have it as 70 - 80%people don't have symptoms
What are the symptoms?
· The need to frequently pass water and, when you do, you feel a burning sensation or discomfort
· For men, a slight, cloudy fluid, which oozes from the tip of the penis, mainly when waking up in the morning (this is a different fluid to semen). Or, painful, swollen testicles.
· Abnormal discharge from the vagina, urethra or anus
. Many people never experience any symptoms but may still be infected
. For women, bleeding between periods or during or after sex or lower abdominal pain
How can I get rid of it?
A treatment of antibiotics - which can be prescribed at sexual health clinics or GP surgeries
To help avoid getting one at all – use a condom!
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Day 1 Lisbon
Welcome to Lisbon, the capital of Portugal since its conquest from the Moors in 1147, and a fascinating city with over 20 centuries of history. We recommended arriving a day or two early to fully explore this vibrant city. As your fellow travellers are arriving throughout the day, there are no planned activities. Check-in to the hotel (check-in time is approx. 3pm) and enjoy the city. In the evening meet your fellow group members at 7pm to go over the details of your trip. Check the notice boards or ask at reception for the exact location of this group meeting. After the meeting, you have the chance to head out for a meal at a local restaurant with the group (optional). Please make every effort to arrive on time for this important welcome meeting. If you are delayed and will arrive late, please contact the hotel or inform us - contact numbers are provided in these notes. Your Chief Experience Officer (CEO) will then leave you a message at the front desk informing you of where and when to meet up.
Day 2 Lisbon (1B)
This morning you will enjoy an orientation walk of central Lisbon with your CEO. Afterwards, you will have time to explore at your leisure. The Alfama is one of the oldest quarters in Lisbon, it largely survived the great earthquake of 1755, so it is well worth a visit as the area still retains much of its original layout. Along the narrow medieval streets lined with typical tile-covered façades, you can listen out for Portugal's traditional music, fado, being played and sung at night. Adjacent to the Alfama are the Castelo and Mouraria quarters, found on the western and northern slopes of the hill where Castelo de Sao Jorge (St. George's Castle) is found. The Graça quarter and the churches of São Vicente de Fora and Santa Engrácia are within walking distance of this area. Laid out in the 16th century, the Bairro Alto (literally "high quarter") is one of the most picturesque quarters in the city. Its architecture, traditional shops, restaurants, bars, and fashionable boutiques give it a unique feel. It is also a good area to experience Lisbon's nightlife. At the top of the Gloria Funicular are the gardens and belvedere of S. Pedro de Alcantara. Continue past them along Rua D. Pedro V until you come to the Principe Real Gardens, under which there is a water cistern, built in 1864 that can be visited on weekdays. You might choose to take the Santa Justa Elevator up to the ruins of the Carmo Convent, destroyed in the 1755 earthquake and the only remaining example of early gothic architecture in Lisbon. Belem is linked to Portugal's Golden Age of Discoveries as the site where the famous navigators set sail to discover the world. This western suburb has some sights worth checking out such as the Estrela Prazeres, Estrela Gardens, Estrela Basilica, Mouraria Castelo, and the Church of Senhora da Sade, with its beautiful tiles and carved wood altar. If you have already been in Lisbon for a couple of days, you may wish to make a half day trip out the beautiful hilltop town of Sintra.
Days 3-4 Evora/Algarve (2B)
This morning we travel by public bus to Evora. Your CEO will take you on an orientation walk including the ghoolish "Chapel of Bones" which is constructed almost entirely from the bones of thousands of people, and the centrally located ruins of the Temple of Diana. Erected in the 2nd century, it was transformed into a fortress during the Middle Ages and even a slaughterhouse in the 19th century. There will be some free time to explore this lively student city of medieval alleyways and quaint architecture. You might want to make a stop at Evora's magnificent Cathedral. Afterwards we make our way to the Algarve region, and the coastal town of Lagos, our stop for the next two nights. Lagos is an attractive, cobblestoned town with fabulous, accessible beaches. Make sure to visit the daily fish and veggie market and trek to the Ponte da Piedade (in front of the lighthouse) for fantastic views of Lagos bay as the Monchique hills rise up in the distance. On Day 4 enjoy an included hike along the famous golden cliffs and sandy coves of the Algarve. The coastal walk is about 7km long. Estimated Travel Time:Lisborn to Evora by public bus or train, 2 hours. Estimated Travel Time: Evora to Lagos by public bus or train, 5 hours.
Days 5-6 Seville
This morning we will head south by public bus to Seville, one of the most colourful and exciting cities in Spain. We spend our time here exploring Muslim monuments, parks and gardens at our leisure, getting a feeling of Seville's energetic pulse while savouring some tapas at the city's many bars and cafés. This evening we will head out to an evening flamenco performance. After your CEO has taken you on a short orientation walk to get your bearings, you will have time to take in all this great city has to offer. Be sure to explore the wonderful interiors and gardens of the Alcázar, a magnificent palace dating from Moorish times. During Seville's warm summer nights (until mid-September) you can enjoy a series of concerts in the beautiful setting of the Reales Alcazares. The true heart of Seville lies in the Santa Cruz quarter a charming area with its winding alleys, picturesque lime-washed houses,flowery patios and small squares. Seville is home to the world's largest gothic cathedral. The climb to the adjoining tower, known as La Giralda, is well worth the effort for the great views of the city. The 76m Giralda was constructed by the Moors as a mosque between 1184 and 1197; after the reconquest Christians fitted the minaret with its bell tower in 1568. Other attractions include the Museo Arqueológico, the Casa de Pilates and the Parque de María Luisa, which has a maze of paths, garden beds, pretty little patios, fountains and shaded lawns. Estimated Travel Time: Lagos to Seville by public bus 6 hours.
Day 7 Cordoba/Granada
This morning we travel from Seville to Granada making a worth-while stop in Cordoba. We will visit Cordoba's most famous monument, it's extraordinary Mezquita. Built as a mosque in 785 by the Moors, the Mezquita was converted in the 16th century by the remarkable addition of a Christian cathedral inserted into the centre of the building. Afterwards, we will stroll Cordoba's historic medieval Jewish quarter, full of narrow winding lanes and traditional houses. Cordoba's gastronomy features a cuisine steeped in Roman, Moorish, Christian and Jewish traditions. Why not head out tonight and sample some such as the thick, hearty stew called "caldereta de cordero" or cool off with "ajo blanco," a hearty white gazpacho soup. After exploring Cordoba we will continue on our journey to Granada. Estimated travel time: Seville to Cordoba by public bus 2 hours. Estimated travel time: Cordoba to Granada by public bus 3 hours.
Day 8 Granada
Today we include a visit to the Alhambra, one of the greatest accomplishments of Islamic art and architecture, and the highlight of the trip for most visitors. During the Muslim rule of Spain, Granada was one of the region's most regal cities. The greatest Muslim legacy in Europe, the Alhambra, is located in Granada. The Alhambra has captured the imagination of visitors for years, and much has been recorded about the history and purpose of this area. No amount of reading or study can truly prepare you for your first visit—it is simply breathtaking. The Alhambra is divided into three sections: the Alcazaba, the Palacio Nazaries and Generalife. The Alcazaba is the Alhambra's Muslim 11th century wing, offering spectacular views of the city from the tops of its towers. The Palacio Nazaries is the center of the Alhambra, and is most famous for its detailed works and gardens. The Generalife was the summer palace of the sultans. We include a full guided visit of the Alhambra to help you make the most of this truly memorable experience. Granada, however, has so much more to offer than the Alhambra, magnificent as it is. Take a wander through the whitewashed historic quarter of the Albaicin, with its narrow lanes and fantastic views back to the Alhambra - this is a great place to go for sunset. A trip to Granada wouldn't be the same without a night on the town, the city is filled with trendy tapas bars and has a lively music scene.
Days 9-10 Madrid
Madrid, the grande dame of European cities, has it all — history, architecture, museums, galleries, beautiful parks and a wild nightlife. The capital's most exciting street is the Gran Vía, but be sure to visit the Plaza Mayor –the true heart of Madrid. Enjoy a coffee in one of the plaza's many cafes and watch the world go by. In the evening, we head out on a tapas and wine bar stroll- a real must do in Madrid. A trip to the Museo del Prado, one of the greatest art galleries in the world, is a definite highlight. The main emphasis of the museum is 15th to 19th century Spanish, Flemish and Italian art. There is plenty of Goya and you'll find a wealth of paintings by Diego Velázquez. For a more modern take and one of the best art history lessons you'll ever get, check out the Museo Thyssen-Bornemisza, a private assembly of paintings from Titian to Picasso. The beautiful Real Jardin Botánico, near the Prado, is a good spot to recover from an art overdose. To see what style the kings and queens lived in, visit the Palacio Real, where you'll get a chance to see some of the most elaborately decorated and furnished rooms. The epicenter of Madrid's nightlife is Plaza del Dos de Mayo, in the area known as Malasaña – head here after hours to have a taste of Sangria and dance to the latest music! The Escorial, a magnificent palace and mausoleum constructed by Felipe II is also a major tourist attraction within the capital area. The building's magnificent style is a worthy monument to the power and wealth that was Spain during the 16th century. The Escorial also became a great center for learning and has an outstanding library. Estimated travel time: Granada to Madrid 6 hours.
Days 11-12 Valencia
A long travel day today as we head to the shores of the Mediterranean and the vibrant city of Valencia. Spain's third-largest city, historical yet cosmopolitan, Valencia is the home of paella, the Holy Grail, the birthplace of the inimitable architecture of Santiago Calatrava and one of Europe's newest and most impressive science museums. Valencia is a fun and fascinating study in contrasts. Established in the fertile terrain on the shores of the Mediterranean, close to the mouth of the river Turia, the luminous city of Valencia comes as a pleasant surprise to many. At night people fill the bustling open terraces and street cafés in the Plaza de Cánovas del Castillo, the cobbled streets of the Carmen district, or the romantic dance clubs with live music on the Malvarrosa beach. Everywhere, world class restaurants, discos, nightclubs and pubs provide the scene for enjoying a night out in Spain's "fiesta" capital. You'll almost certainly want to try Valencia's famous dish, Paella - your CEO will arrange an optional evening out to a local paella restaurant where you can eat your fill. Don't forget to try a few of the great Valencian wines! Estimated Travel Time: Madrid to Valencia by public bus 7 hours.
Days 13-14 Barcelona (2B)
We take a morning bus to Barcelona. Upon arrival your CEO will take you out for an orientation walk to familiarise yourself with the city's layout. Spend the rest of today and Day 14 at your leisure exploring the city's museums and cathedrals, or feel free enjoy some of the best shopping in Europe. Barcelona is Spain's second largest city, but it is the capital when it comes to fashion, architecture, food and music. Known worldwide for its dynamic atmosphere and exciting style, Barcelona never disappoints. There is plenty of history too: visit the old Gothic Quarter with its maze of dark streets, historic cathedral, medieval buildings, bars and cafes. Stroll the Rambla, a large tree-lined pedestrian boulevard perfect for people-watching and window shopping, ending at the harbourfront facing the Mediterranean Sea. Make sure to view Gaudi's most famous life work, the cathedral La Sagrada Familia, an inspiring yet bizarre testament to the artist's unique vision. On day 14, we find some quiet time away from it all with a visit to the imaginative Park Guell, to stroll the tree-lined paths and admire more of Gaudi's creative genius at play. Find time to tour the beautiful Palau Musica, built between 1905 and 1908 as a home for catalan music, it is full of light and of colour. For nightlife, the highest concentration of beautiful young locals dancing, both in the bars and on the street, can be found near the intersection of Santaló and Mariano Cubi streets. Here you can always find good music, good drinks and lots of fun. Another good nightlife spot for meeting the fashionable locals of Barcelona is on the Plaza Francesc Maciá. Estimated Travel Time: Valencia to Barcelona by public bus 4 hours.
Day 15 Barcelona
Depart at any time. We recommend staying an extra day or two to fully experience all this beautiful city has to offer.


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121 Diamond Spring RoadDenville, NJ 07834
Our friend Faye Fishman returns for another enchanting evening of Celtic Harp music on Thursday July 25th at 7:00 pm in the library theatre. If you didn't have the pleasure of hearing her first concert with us you do not want to miss this chance! Faye will play a variety of songs and spend some time relating the stories that go along with them. A perfect way to spend a summer evening. Sign up now!
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- Thomas Hawkins
- London
- United Kingdom
This conversation is closed.
When does a conversation become worth while?
I want to know when a conversation is worth while? Is every conversation worth having? Are we just venting or gaining something? Perhaps a little of both, but are they both just as important?
Closing Statement from Thomas Hawkins
It seems for the most part that the majority of people determine the worth of a conversation by satisfying selfish and/or mutual group needs. A follow up question would be, do we think about satisfying these needs before entering a conversation? I don't think that we do on a social playing field, gossip, etc; therefore, it is fair to say that for the majority not all conversations are worth having. Worth while conversations are those where we are able satisfy/solve our needs/questions. Therefore, this must require some premeditative thought, to an extent, depending on severity and consciousness of the individual's needs and desires of the future conversation.
Although, I'd like to propose and entertain the idea that "all" conversations are worth while regardless of what novel you have written in your conversational speech. The answer lies in the opportunity. This latest conversational masterpiece and/or self-published disaster came into existence through an opportunity to have a conversation. Rather than looking at the end product, maybe we should think about the worth in the opportunity of invention and discovery. I am not denying that some conversations are more worth while than others, some are mundane and draining, good and bad, but I'd like to throw a stick in the spokes and stop the bike of "reward thinking". It is worth while to debate, question and be curious toward even the most "unworthy" topics of choice. We may not even satisfy our own needs, but be there for another to talk with. A shoulder to cry on, if you will.
Is it possible to find reward without having won a race? Yes...
ps. Just a little note of thanks. Thank you for all your comments, really interesting points of view. I also must say sorry for being on the "down low" as of late. Busy days. All the best
Sep 15 2012: It is as important to listen as it is to say what is on our mind.
Not every conversation is worth having; especially when things become heated and it seems to be turning to all talk and no listening.
It is always important to make an effort to get to know another person, and there is no better way of knowing someone else than listening, understanding and asking questions.
But if there is no effective communication because the other person is not keen; and if the intention to listen and understand is not mutual; then a conversation is not worthwhile.
Sep 15 2012: thanks Feyisayo.
I understand what you mean, but would it be fair to say that perhaps when a conversation that ended in a heated dispute is a "bad" conversation. Maybe it was worth having to understand those heated feelings?
We can have a variety of conversations each with a different destination; gaining knowledge, understanding, building rapport, expressing ideas, etc. The end product is often what determines the "worth" of the conversation, but without the performance the critic has no job. Therefore, I think that the "worth" should be determined on something else...
I do like this "if the intention to listen and understand is not mutual; then a conversation is not worthwhile." It takes two to tango
Sep 15 2012: The end product really determines the worth. Even if it does not end well, at least we can confidently say that we tried our best to reach out.
Sep 15 2012: thanks Feyisayo
. .
Sep 15 2012: When both sides approach it with an open heart and intention for the common good.
- +3
pat gilbert
Sep 15 2012: In order for it to be worthwhile it has to be a conversation, by definition it has to be an exchange of ideas. There are a myriad of reasons that ideas are not exchanged and masquerade as a conversation or communication, for what ever reason the ideas are not exchanged qualifies it as something other than a conversation.
- +3
A genuine conversation or communication is quite rare even here on TED. Mostly it is someone disseminating their ideas without regard to the the receiver of the communication. The reality is that most people do not really communicate with others and life which make them susceptible to manipulation.
The sad thing is that this is mostly a self imposed sequestration by consideration.
The essence of life is communication it is what allows one to learn, understand, enjoy, be happy, like, be motivated, survive, play, win, teach, motivate, and all the laudable things in life, not the least of which is to exchange.
Sep 15 2012: hello Pat.
a very well put together reply. thank you. I have two questions.
can I ask what do you mean by "the sad thing is that this is mostly a self imposed sequestration by consideration"?
Also, are you proposing that a conversation is worth while if it meets its definition?
I very much like the end of your reply. thanks again
Sep 15 2012: Re the 1st Q, I mean people refuse to communicate because of provincial thinking or other considerations, whom ever they refuse to communicate with they have in effect sequestered themselves away from those people. The middle east is an example of this.
The corollary of this is that you have to choose who you communicate with clearly you have to control this.
Re the 2nd Q, yes
Sep 15 2012: thank you Pat.
Comment deleted
pat gilbert
Sep 17 2012: emotions are a part of the communication.
- +1
Elizabeth Gu
Sep 17 2012: When both parties are engrossed in what they're talking about--when no one is alone in the talk.
- +2
When I realize that the person I talk to is neither flattering nor criticizing me.
When the conversation is memorable enough for you to remind you to keep in touch with him again.
When the person you have comversation with doesn't rebuke you.--I have to confess I wasn't really obedient to my parents.I was a bit stubborn anyway. So, when I was a kid, Mom would scold me for many things. Mom said that we should talk, but I always knew that it was going to be a one-way talk, "You listen to me." lol
Comment deleted
Elizabeth Gu
Sep 19 2012: I'm flattered, thank you, Don :)
- +2
Yes, she is, being ill, unfortunately. But I have to admit, despite the fact that she's weak and fragile, her love is so strong. When she was young, she gave up her dreams and college degrees just to raise me and my siblings. I guess that was one of her ways to love me. I owe her.
I couldn't understand the things she tried to teach me when I was a kid.
"Different culture, special ways of emotional loving!" You're right.
Even though technically, Mom and I haven't had any memorable conversations so far, I've learned so many things from her. She taught me in many ways, especially through her good deeds and dedication. "More than Words" indeed...I am so grateful that I have such a good mother.
(I enjoyed the song, btw. It was real. Thanks :D )
When I listen to this song, I can't help thinking about Mom. Want to share it with you
Send my love to you,
ElizabethSep 16 2012: I would say that there are two basic categories:
1. The ones that makes you think. The ones that cause the thoughts in your mind whirl overnight and take away your sleep. And the ones that eventually cause a change of your perception, even the slightest one.
2. The ones that give you the feeling of ease when you feel tense. The ones that come unexpectedly and put a smile on your face, when you didn't feel like smiling at all.
Gabo Moreno
Sep 15 2012: Any time you enjoy it. Anytime you fell like having the conversation. Anytime you want it so. The conversation ca be the destination. The mere pleasure of writing, the mere pleasure of talking. The mere inclination to write, the mere inclination to talk.
- +2
Sep 15 2012: hello Gabo
in that case, would the listener have to willing, or used as a piece of paper like a writer with a pen?
Sep 15 2012: Listener? I thought you meant conversation, not monologue.
Sep 16 2012: I did indeed mean conversation, not monologue. So I guess then, how do we define conversation? Do all members have to be willing to talk and listen? Do all parties have to participate?
By your definition Gabo, a conversation is worth while any time "you" enjoy it. Any time "you" want it, etc. Therefore, would it be fair to say that this is a monologue if we define a conversation as all members have to willing to also participate?
interesting point... never thought of that
Gail .
Sep 15 2012: A conversation becomes worthwhile for me when one of us can learn something.
- +2
Jon Ho
Sep 16 2012: Depending on what you want to get out of the conversation.
- +1
If you are trying to learn from someone, and the conversation imparts knowledge to you, then yeah.
If you are trying to troll someone, and got a good laugh out of that conversation, then yeah.
If you want to befriend someone, and engendered feelings of friendship with that person, then yeah.
Basically it depends on your objective, what you want to get out of that conversation, and the result of that conversation, if it met your objectives.
Sep 17 2012: Dear Jon Ho,
For an "alien", (according to your profile) you certainly have good insight about us humans! LOL:>)
I agree that what we want to get out of the conversation, and what we are willing to contribute to the conversation are important factors. Some folks are searching for good conversation and conversationalists, and maybe forgetting that it takes two or more participants to "create" a pleasurable, informative conversation that is equally appealing to all participants?
Sep 17 2012: Lady, when you hang around humans for 10,000 years trying to shape their technological future, you tend to pick up things here and there. Some of the things I picked up was that giving crystal technology to Atlantean scientists for their energy generation research was a big mistake; their bureaucrats and leaders wanted to create weapons to enslave the rest of the world. Fortunately, those scientists beautifully sacrificed their island, sinking it into the sea to prevent this from ever happening.
Nowadays, crystal technology, especially quartz crystal is only used for generating electric signals with precise frequency to keep track of time, like wrist watches. If you humans ever knew the exothermic properties of crystal -producing more energy than it requires to start it and is therefore self-sustaining- well....
Although, I find it very amusing that you humans harnessed the power of the stars -aka cold fusion- to create a device to keep track of time, mounted on your wrist. Why you humans regard mechanical watches like Rolex highly even though quartz crystal wristwatches are obviously superior is beyond me; I'm still trying to learn this very strange human concept.
Well then, are we having a good, worthwhile conversation now or what? ;)
Sep 17 2012: Jon Ho....."are we having a good worthwhile conversation now or what?"
Depends on what you want to get from it:>) I must tell you that I am technically challenged, so you are leaving me in the dust with your technical "stuff".
This is what I can add....I haven't worn a watch for about 25 years, I think crystals are absolutely beautiful, and make lovely jewelery. How're we doing?Sep 17 2012: Well I'm unable to reply your post, silly TED programmers...
but... indeed, crystals are absolutely gorgeous! Back home in the Arcturus system, in front of my childhood home stood a tree that I carved my real name, that look exactly like this http://www.illuminatedgarden.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/288-250.jpg
When my mission is over, if you wish, I will take you on my ship, the Prometheus, and I'll show you that crystal tree when it glows beautifully in the red afternoon sun.
I think we're doing fine, conversation wise. ;)
Sep 17 2012: Jon Ho, you replied perfectly, even in spite of those human programmers:>)
I believe Arcturus is the one I used to say this to when I was a child...
"Star light, star bright, first star I see tonight". Arcturus is the brightest star in the northern sky....correct? Lovely place to live my friend:>)
Lovely tree Jon Ho....thanks for sharing that:>)
Perhaps I might join you on your ship when your mission is over....assuming MY mission is over as well. I would like to stop at the Pleiades...you are familier with the seven sisters star cluster? That was one of my more recent homes:>)
It is interesting that your ship is named Prometheus (trickster)....is that relevant?Sep 20 2012: Jon,
think uve got room for one more onboard the Prometheus ??Sep 19 2012: I'm not sure, Earth's astronomy is not my strong point heh. From where I came from, the night the sky burns orange so there isn't any star to see.
There's a whole forest of that tree, and sometimes in the morning the forest looks like its on fire.
Oh yes, Pleiades! And the intergalactic wars, horrible business that... I believe that's why we're all here, to prevent another planet's destruction. Unfortunately we are running out of time, so free will and self discovery be damned, I will actively accelerate human development even if Zeus punishes me with the eagle eating regenerating heart all over again. Been there, done that, it don't scare me none. ;)
My ship is named Prometheus as in "The Teacher"; you know, bringing fire to mankind, introducing agriculture and writing, kick-starting the wheels of human technological development. There used to be other ships out there like Athena and Ares that protected earth for quite some time, as well as Asclepius who tried his hardest to repair the damage the Atlantean's did to this planet.
All of them went back home except me and Athena but don't worry, she single-handedly took out whole armada's of intergalactic invaders and will do it again and again to ensure the protection of planet earth. Only problem now is it seems that you humans are now hell-bent on self destruction. :(
Tell me friend Colleen, how is your meditation going?Sep 17 2012: "If you are trying to troll someone, and got a good laugh out of that conversation, then yeah."
Sep 17 2012: Oh my goodness James...Jon Ho is a troll? I was sure he was an alien....that's what his profile says!
Anyway, it was a fun little exchange, and I learned something because I looked up Arcturus and Prometheus....interesting little exploration, and I wasn't doing anything else significant at that moment, so it was entertaining.....hopefully for both of us:>) In my humble perception, it was worth while:>)
Sep 17 2012: You'd be surprised (or not surprised) how many trolls exist on the internet ;)Sep 19 2012: Just because I have a green tint to my skin does not necessarily classify me as a troll; I could be an ogre like Shrek for example. You never know. ;)
Rhona Pavis
Sep 16 2012: When the participants express their TRUE feelings and TRUE thoughts.....Sep 15 2012: When it sparks hundreds of comments and arguments.Sep 15 2012: Conversation is dependent on two factors the sender and the reciever. When either one of these is missing or becomes non involved the conversation is over. It would be wise to pick your conversations if possible. As an extreme example: a person of the Jewish faith to enter a Hitler Forever shop and expecting a good conversation would be VERY disappointed in the results.
- +1
A conversation becomes woth while when a interest is generated and dialog is generated. I find some of the topics on TED very interesting and I learn a lot about some of the sciences talked about here. However, as I am very uninformed the expert must continually go back and explain why there is a problem or how we arrived here. This is a one sided conversation and most are quite polite but they must be bored to tears, a really good teacher, or on a ego trip and enjoy showing off.
I likie TED because we all give and take and at the end of the day we have both listened and evaluated new ideas and concepts or at least approaches to a issue. That means that we have truely met the TED motto of an idea worth spreading.
Have a great day. Bob.
Sep 16 2012: thanks Bob.
Picking conversations.
Without the obvious dark vs. light, nothing vs. everything, etc. How would you personally pick a conversation, Bob? I like this idea and I'd like to find out more.
Fritzie -
Sep 15 2012: A conversation can be worthwhile for one person and not the others. So it is often less a matter of a conversation being valuable per se than that it satisfies or benefits one or more people involved in it. That person may have learned something even while others in the conversation were already familiar with the ideas expressed. Or some people measure the worth of a conversation by whether they got to say something they urgently wanted to say, which might include venting. Some people find a conversation worthwile if they feel they planted a seed that might grow as people think about it further. Others count a conversation worthwhile for them only if they turned people to their points of view or made their sale..Sep 15 2012: Hi Thomas,
- +1
To me, each and every conversation is worth while because they all offer the opportunity to learn. That being said, however, I also know how, when, and with whom I want to learn on a regular bases.
Some people do indeed simply "vent" their anger, over and over again, and in my perception, that kind of conversation is not interesting. Some folks also have their own agenda, which they insist on continually presenting.....that also is not interesting for me. I have no desire to participate in the very same circular conversations while a person is always trying to prove him/herself "right", more knowledgeable, more insightful, superior, etc. To me, those types of conversations are important only in that they tell us a lot about that person, who cannot successfully "engage", but rather, is always trying to dominate.
The very best conversations in my perception, are those in which both, or all participants are open minded, open hearted, and genuinely interested in engaging and exploring ideas worth sharing:>)
Sep 15 2012: hello Colleen. thanks for a well drawn reply
I agree that the best conversations are those where all the participants are open minded, etc, makes for an interesting filed of play, for sure.
May I ask, if every conversation is an worth while because they all offer the opportunity to learn, is the "worth" in the learning or the opportunity?
Sep 15 2012: My pleasure Thomas:>)
I perceive EVERYTHING to be interconnected, so I say the possibility of "worth" is both in the opportunity and the learning. It would depend on the perception of the individual, don't you think?
We cannot say what the "worth" is to someone else, we can only know what we perceive to be of value for ourselves. We could, as individuals, be totally excited about an interaction and perceive it to be absolutely, wonderfully insightful and informative, while another person gets nothing from the interaction...yes?
Sep 16 2012: Yes, i do think so. Precisely why I posted this question in fact.
The fact that a conversation is, in my belief, where two or more people communicate reciprocally, the idea of value is hard to determine for each individual as one person may take more from any one conversation than the other(s). However, like you pointed out earlier Colleen, the opportunity to learn or take from the conversation was a level playing field for all. Therefore, I thought that perhaps the "worth" would be in the opportunity or even in the ability to talk to another.
You also said that, and quite rightly so, the connections between all these factors are value markers. Therefore determining any "one" value is difficult for us allSep 17 2012: Hi again Thomas,
I agree that the opportunity CAN be a "level playing field for all", if all participants perceive it in that light. As others have mentioned on this thread, people have different objectives....different agendas and intent, so everyone may not see the opportunity as a "level playing field".
I have encountered a person here on TED who thinks s/he is superior to everyone else,
and calls him/herself a "winner", when they perceive the conversation going as s/he would like. That is their own perception, and if that helps that person feel content about the interaction, so be it.
I believe TED conversations are about sharing ideas, so I do not perceive "winners" and "losers" in conversations. I like participating with people who perceive this forum as a "level playing field" on which we all share ideas worth spreading:>) That's my personal intent and objective, and I believe it is the objective of most people participating in this forum.
Again....I don't believe we can determine the value for other individuals. That seems to be information we all determine for ourselves?
Ken brown
Sep 15 2012: I like this Q
- +1
Both until both agree to disagree unless one is a soldier and cannot let it go,otherwise we all walk away with a little of something new whether we want to or not.
Good Q,Damn good Q.
I had a conversation with one of my people who was fairly jumping up and down with unbridled pride at a gathering of my peoples chiefs and representatives,this has happened before but not like this,never in our short history have we gathered as one for one purpose,even i was feeling a sense of pride and for just a short time we were in sync until i was asked my thoughts on the events,sometimes it's better to walk away when too emotionally invested.
Sep 15 2012: thanks Ken.
we all walk away with a little of something new whether we want to or not is precisely my trail of thought.Sep 17 2012: Ken and Thomas,
I agree that we all walk away with something from each and every interaction.....IF.....we are open to that possibility?
As you insightfully say Ken, there are people who "cannot let it go", and become emotionally involved. I think it's beneficial to share emotion in all conversations. Do you think/feel there can be too much of an emotional investment? I think so....that is when some folks are convinced they are "right" and want to be a "winner". Their emotional investment seems to dominate the interaction, to the point of actually losing touch with what the conversation is actually about. That is not enjoyable.
Sep 17 2012: Yes your right Colleen.
My little example showed me that even myself can let emotion rule when it comes to something that i feel is important within my localized area plus the fact that well, get a bunch of my people together and we start talking internal politics and then i insert my opinion and Whamo! i usually get ostracized.
My people in the 1800's installed a king to rival Victoria and to try to bind the rest of us together,it is a new system rather than a tradition but my peoples collective thinking is still stuck in the early 20th century,they still believe that the kingship works and when it comes to bloodlines,it can start wars that can take years to resolve,amongst my people bloodlines is power,my simple stance,get rid of the kingship before the British do.When i come across some of my people they usually worship their bloodlines like it's God,i try to bring them back to reality that their are no 100% native born anymore and that they can't say they don't have slave blood in their lines,it's an insult but one that can't be disproved either,we're still getting over a "Them and Us" attitude.Sep 21 2012: a conversation is worth while when we are in rapport with each other. and sharing information that we both share the interest.
I can't spend my time listening to someone who is talking about science fiction, Computer games, gun, is it worth having those kind of conversations where I don't have interest in? NO!
Sam Rock
Sep 19 2012: It depends upon us. We can find some good points from each conversation and sometime we also finds many conversation as waste. It also depends upon the people involved and also the intentions and seriousness of the involved people about the issue.
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But if everyone reach out the issue with the positive attitude and do not take that conversation as a time pass then it doesn't matter what he/she write but whatever it may be if written seriously then it will definitely make the conversation worth while.
Comment deleted
Sep 16 2012: Don you know all about difficult conversations. Been posting on another conversation, now closed, about something really important. Very worried about situation in Middle East (actually live U.K, at the moment). Still remember 'duck and cover' T.V. ads from 1970s about what to do if Nuclear war broke out between U.S.A. and U.S.S.R. Very worried about the weather. Got accused of p. word meaning trying to force own ideas on someone else using rhetoric. Look on my profile (now updated) and tell me where I am making mistakes. Already said don't like 2000 character limit because sometimes complex ideas need more space. Plus said difficult to convey emotions unless really good at grammar and am sloppy with punctuation. Plus vocabulary changing. Did you know to troll means 'be nasty' can only reference troll under bridge in children's nursery tale. Don, realise ultimately, whatever will be will be but would really appreciate some guidance about this cos do still want to talk via TED.
Jon Ho
Sep 17 2012: """don't like 2000 character limit because sometimes complex ideas need more space""""
- +1
Fascinating. Did you know one of the most complex ideas in the world is summed up in 5 characters?
Nothing gets more complex that that. ;)
Sep 17 2012: Thought of own recently C=EIIR2=C. Suggest in this instance C is creative conversation, EiiR2 is active, energetic debate between two people and other C is community environment, which in this case is TED. Learning icons so:D. Thanks :). Love to chat to like minded souls.Sep 16 2012: Hello Don.
"So in a general sense the answer is, when the transactions are completed and meet everyone's individual needs." Just like to confirm that your belief is when ALL participants in the conversation needs are satisfied? It's just you also said we may need to tell each other things, in your example, telling each other we are "ok" or "not ok". In this case, would you consider the conversation beneficial if less than all the participants satisfied this need?
best to you, too!Sep 16 2012: If they care about it . Or if they could benifit.Sep 15 2012: Any conversation is worth while when one learns something new - even if that knowledge is good or bad - knowledge is always beneficial.
Also, yes, just saying your thoughts or writing them down allows you to get rid of them in a sense of reanalyzing them.Sep 15 2012: You won't know when a conversation is really worthwhile until you've experienced one that you deem is not worthwhile, and in that respect, you can argue that even the un-worthwhile one is worthwhile because it showed you what a worthwhile one is not.
Perhaps a conversation that isn't worthwhile is not having a conversation at all.
chen xin
Sep 15 2012: maybe i should say something to you japanese! the diaoyu island belongs to china .nothing can change
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Sep 15 2012: my apologises for being curt Chen, but perhaps japanese would be best... clearly you miss understood the content of the question. this is clearly an issue you feel strongly toward, but you are directing your efforts in the wrong direction....
perhaps this conversation would be worth while elsewhere
chen xin
Sep 15 2012: ok!i just want to say something about it. you know.these days between the two countries we have much unhappenese.everyday i hear from my classmate about event and many of them go to the street to have a demonstration.some even burnin the cars that made in japan!also many japanese shops closed.i am just confused.i am sorry !
- +1
Sep 15 2012: Ok Chen. thanks for explaining a little better.
All I will say, however this debate should end between the two countries, try and keep an open mind to the fact that some people care, other people dont. The population of Japan is made up of individuals, just like anywhere else. I hope you can find dislike for the situation, rather than a nation


text:
Veteran Tax Credits Extended and Increased In Scope
Congressional passage of "The Tax Relief, UI Reauthorization and Job Creation Act of 2010," in part, reauthorized and extended the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) Program through December 31, 2011..
The reauthorization made certain modifications to the WOTC tax credit program for employees that begin work for an employer after 12-31-2009, including, but not limited to, the following:
- Re-instates retroactively each HUD designated Rural Empowerment Zone (EZ) from January 01, 2010 through December 31, 2012, reference Group D "Designated Community Resident"
During federal fiscal year 2011, which ended on September 30, 2011, the Tennessee Department of Labor and Workforce Development issued 50,025 federal Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) certifications representing in excess of $201 million in potential federal income tax savings to Tennessee employers. The 2011 WOTC Certification level represents an increase over the previous year's activity.
The Tennessee Department of Labor & Workforce Development, working with USDOL, the Internal Revenue Service, and other states, has been among the leaders in developing clear and effective regulatory requirements for the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) Program since its inception in 1996. These efforts, along with our partnering state and local agencies have resulted in Tennessee being one of the nation's top 5 producing states as it relates to the amount of potential Federal income tax credits it has been able to return to eligible Tennessee employers.
In an effort to streamline the WOTC application requirements, recent IRS guidance (Notice 2012-13) allows employers to submit a completed and signed Form 8850 to TDOL&WD via a fax transmission. All faxed WOTC applications should be sent to 615-532-1612.
To receive additional information regarding the WOTC tax credit program, please call 1-800-432-5268 (in state only) or fax your request to 615-532-1612.
IRS Form 8850 - PreScreening Notice and Certification Request
Employers may also be eligible for a "State Tax Credit" under the Tennessee Jobs Tax Credit for Hiring Persons With Disabilities (TJTC). This is a one-time "State Tax Credit" which may be available to qualified employers who establish either full-time or part-time jobs(s) for persons with disabilities who are receiving state services directly related to such disability. For more information about the Tennessee Jobs Tax Credit for Hiring Persons With Disabilities, visit the TJTC - Frequently Asked Questions Web page.


text:
Help narrow down short list of Venice restaurants for end of August
My boyfriend and I will be in Venice for 4 nights. I have done extensive research on restaurants, etc. (including chowhound discussions) and have arrived at the following list. However, I still see contradictory reviews for each place and am having a hard time deciding. I would like something "romantic," but I think romantic can be rustic & charming like Da Ivo as well as elegant like Terrazza Danieli. However, good food and service are the primary considerations. I want to make reservations as soon as possible since will arrive on August 26.
My dinner list includes:
Da Ivo
Da Rafaelle (highly recommended by a friend and many times return diner)
Al Covo
Antiche Carampane
Alla Madonna
Cip's Club (dining with views of Piazza San Marco)
Terrazza Danieli (we're staying here and like the views of Venice & San Giorgio Maggiore at night)
I'm leaning towards Da Ivo, Da Rafaelle, Al Covo and Terrazza Danieli.
Since we will have a large breakfast at the Danieli and dinner, we will probably not make lunch reservations. Just in case, I'm considering the following for lunch:
Il Refolo
Ostaria da Rioba
La Zucca
I appreciate your comments and suggestions (they need not be limited to my list).
La Zucca (aka alla Zucca)
Santa Croce, 1762, Venezia 30135, IT
Il Refolo
Campo San Giacomo dell'Orio, 1459, Venezia 30135, IT
Antiche Carampane
Calle de la Carampane, 1911,San Polo, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
Al Covo
Campiello della Pescaria,Castello 3968, Venice, Veneto 30122, IT
Alla Madonna
Calle della Madonna, San Polo, 594,, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
Just about every restaurant will have its detractors. We all have different taste and any restaurant can have a bad night. In addition, most visitors stay for a couple of days and great food is not on top of their agenda. Most rather eat a particular location for the view. One general comment is that some of the best traditional Venetian food are in simple trattorias and osterias where the décor is simple, tables somewhat closed together and the service do not have the precision of fine dining. And these are not inexpensive places. Of those on your list:
Da Ivo: one of the best traditional restaurant in Venice; also has a few Tuscan specialities. This means the food is not fancy but the ingredients are top-notice and the cooking very precise. The service is proper but not formal. Cozy in an old-fashioned kind of way with beautiful lighting. It is like a 'glorified' trattoria. Don't expect any pomp or fanciness. It is also one of the most expensive restaurant, comparable to any of the top hotel's dining room such as the Gritti, Danieli, Bauer. A three course meal would be about 80euros pp before anything else is added.
Da Rafaelle: if a side canal setting is the most important, can't do any better. The long terrace is always beautifully lit and one can watch the nearby band of gondoliere plying their trade. It is postcard setting. Considering the number of diners they serve and that most visitors don't pay much attention to the food, they do a credible job.
Al Covo and Antiche Carampane: two of the best trattorias in Venice for Venetian food. Antiche is seafood only. Lots of earlier posts on this board.
Alla Madonna: large old-fashioned bustling trattoria with a huge menu that has something for everyone. Much of the food is precooked, the ingredients are nothing special, waterlogged contorni. One might enjoy the old-fashioned white tuxedo clad waiters or noisy atmosphere or maybe just the moderate cost.
Cip's Club: your reason because of the view is good enough. The food at any Cipriani is always pretty good (maybe Harry's Bar is debatable). It depends on how one wants to spend their euros. I have never eaten at the Club because of my limited budget.
Terrazza Danieli: if you are staying at the Danieli, maybe I should not be talking about budgetary concerns. Have never known anyone who has eaten there.
Il Refolo: good upscale pizzeria with outdoor seating on a quiet campielle; during lunch, hope a boat is not parked and unloading grocery to the next door Coop Supermarket.
Da Rioba, solid Venetian food with some nice salads; pleasant tables along side on a canal.
La Zucca: nice simple modern décor; though there are a few Venetian dishes, the every changing menu is very eclectic with influences from the Middle East, India, South American and other Mediterranean counties. No seafood served; lots of vegetables as antipasti and side dishes. The food is always tasty though sometimes needs a little finesse. Moderately price by Venice standard.
Except for the Cip and the Danieli, I have eaten at the places on your list at least twice and more than a several time at some. If I to choose a restaurant that combines food, view, ambience and without budgetary consideration I would do da Pisis in the Bauer. I like the terrace and the view better than the either the Cip's Club or the rooftop Danieli. My only hesitation is that he food is a re-intrepratation of traditional Venetian recipes rather than classic Venetian cooking. And this is based on one dinner this past April.
La Zucca (aka alla Zucca)
Santa Croce, 1762, Venezia 30135, IT
Il Refolo
Campo San Giacomo dell'Orio, 1459, Venezia 30135, IT
Antiche Carampane
Calle de la Carampane, 1911,San Polo, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
Da Rioba
Fondamenta de la Misericordia, Cannaregio, 2553, Venice, Veneto 30121, IT
Al Covo
Campiello della Pescaria,Castello 3968, Venice, Veneto 30122, IT
Alla Madonna
Calle della Madonna, San Polo, 594,, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
re: PBSF
Hi delainefoss
We ate at both la Zucca and da rioba this month. Both were very good (for different reasons) and as a side benefit very romantic. It is hard to beat sitting right on the edge of the canals. Da rioba is moderately priced, relaxed with the emphasis on Venetian seafood. La yucca is great for vegetarians. The cooking is solid if not refined. Simple pastas and interesting veggie preparations. I'd rec both of them
re: delainefoss
Please report back after your trip. You have an interesting list, some places that do not get mentioned much if at all on this board. Places such as da Rafaelle is very popular and I've been with visiting friends. They really enjoy it. And places in hotels other than The Met, never gets mention. Just don't go to Alla Madonna expecting good food.
Alla Madonna
Calle della Madonna, San Polo, 594,, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
re: PBSF
I have secured dinner reservations at Da Rafaelle and Terrazza Danieli. I might leave the night of our arrival open. I still need something for Sunday and haven't heard yet regarding Al Covo. I'm considering Ai Gondolieri and Linead'ombra. I know one is mainly meat and one is mainly fish, but any thoughts?
Ai Gondolieri
Fondamenta de Ospedaleto, Dorsoduro, 366, 30123, Venice, Veneto 30123, IT
Al Covo
Campiello della Pescaria,Castello 3968, Venice, Veneto 30122, IT
re: delainefoss
Linead'ombra was just mentioned on this board. I have not been there, probably won't unless we get a invitation from a generous future guest that is staying with us. Al Gondoliere is fine but it has never been top of my list. I would definitely do Al Covo over Al Gondoliere; better food, less expensive and warmer ambience. If you are doing Da Rafaella and and the Danieli, I would pick a trattoria that gives one what is eating in Venice is about, preferable one that has excellent seafood. At least there will be a chance that you'll be rubbing elbow with a few Venetians. I think it really comes down to how important is food to you and your boyfriend. There are lots of places in Venice that have good view and decent food and doesn't cost an arm and leg. Most are more traditional places and doesn't cater exclusively to the international crowd. And it is not always about the cost; I can dress simply, relax and not have to be on my best behavior. For expansive view, I would go for drinks at the Skyline Bar (with the best 360 degree view of Venice, the Lagoon and Marghera to boot) at the Molina-Stucky in the Giudecca or the Bar Terraza Danieli, or the Terrace at the Bauer.
For romance, I prefer cozy over glitzy formal places with view and large brigade of waiters. I like small personal places like the second floor alcove at Bancogiro, or the quiet corner at Boccadoro, the simple nicely lit back room of La Zucca.
If you do pick a traditional seafood place, you might have to rearrange your restaurants because most are closed Sundays and Mondays. That shouldn't be difficult as Da Rafaelle and Danieli are open 7 days a week. If you have contacted Al Covo by email, they will reply back; might still be on their short annual summer closing.
One thing about Venice is that during high season, certain areas are just packed, bumper to bumper with visitors; sometimes it is good to just relax with a simple dinner; then have some quiet time to stroll the city later in the evening. Grab a gelato. This is when Venice is truly magical.
Al Covo
Campiello della Pescaria,Castello 3968, Venice, Veneto 30122, IT
If you want view and good food, I'd recommend two restaurants on the magnificent Zattere.
The first, that I did test only in late August is the one that just replaced my favorite restaurant in Venice Ristorante Riviera (change management )
It is now the "Al pesador Riviera"!
I take a risk because I still I have not eaten since the change of ownership but the beautiful terrace on the Zattere and facing the Molino Stucky must be the same ( very romantic)
At the other end of the Zattere, there is the Ristorante Lineadombra shortly before the Punta della Dogana with for me the most beautiful terrace in Venice and fine cuisine. Beware Prices accordingly!!! But very, very romantic ;-)
I confirm Antiche Carampane is an excellent Trattoria ( my favorite with Alle Testiere in holiday until September 2).
If you go to the Arsenale at the Biennale another alternative may be the Trattoria Corte Sconta with its beautiful courtyard hidden. Corte Sconta is seafood only !
Corte Sconta
Calle del Pestrin, Castello 3886, Venezia 30122, IT
Antiche Carampane
Calle de la Carampane, 1911,San Polo, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
Ponte dell'Umilta, Dorsoduro, 19, Venice, Veneto , IT
re: divinecomedie
Da Pinto, Campiello della Beccarie, if you can get in.
re: ospreycove
Da Pinto is fine for a few cicchetti for lunch, especially if one happens to be near the Rialto market. It can be fun to rub elbows with the vendors after they closed shop on Saturdays afternoon. The rest of the menu served in the seat down rear dining rooms is nothing special. And one shouldn't have problem getting a table there. Maybe we hit it on less than a stellar evening; friendly staff though. Haven't been in a couple of years. The nearby Al Garanghelo on c/dei Botteri is much better. The link you provided has nothing to do with the da Pinto.
da Pinto
Sestiere San Polo,367, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
re: ospreycove
Someone else posted that link earlier and it was deleted by the site monitor. Probable reason is that they didn't think it has anything to do with food. I was really looking forward to some good reply to that post, specially when the heading was something like "Is Good Food Over for Venice?". The Golden Age of Venice ended more than 300 years ago. They are great at re-inventing themselves by providing entertainment to the world. And separating visitors from their money. It might be a 'theme park" but it is the worlds most amazing theme-park. For us, it is difficult to stay away. There are still so many quiet areas in such a small overwhelmed city. And the food can be terrific because of the availability of great seafood and produce. Sadly, most of it is has to be cooked by oneself. From our experience, one can actually eat out better now than thirty years ago because there are more food savvy people traveling (even to Venice). But good restaurants are budget busting. Great that one can still get a good gelato for 1.2euro, a standup breakfast of cappuccino and pastry for 2.5.
Glad you mentioned Da Pinto; though the food is not always stellar, it is one of those places that are necessary for any city to survive. Venice is not all about Alle Testiere, Al Covo, Da Fiore, Harry's Bar, etc.
re: ospreycove
Da Pinto is listed in Scibilia's book (a lot of places are not) but she comments ruefully that more and more it is given over to standard tourist fare.. She advises to "set a good example and order sepioline,shrimp,folpeti rosti and above all the ever delicious baccala mantecano. Soon the owner will realize that even tourists are capable of appreciating quality food and be educated to enjoy good food from the local heritage."
da Pinto
Sestiere San Polo,367, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
re: jen kalb
At da Pinto, if one asks for the special of the day, as opposed to the "Translated" tourist menu, Our experiences have mostly been very good, good simple seafood dishes are usually available.
da Pinto
Sestiere San Polo,367, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
re: ospreycove
I personally think your "what's good today" approach is great advice at almost any restaurant. In Venice, it will certainly get your the best fish & seafood they have on hand. :)
re: divinecomedie
Interesting that Ristorante Riviera has been taken over by the same people as the Al Pesador Rialto. The cooking style will be less traditional. The view from that part of Zattere is very different, of the Giudecca and even the docks and Margheria. I have always been reluctant to eat outside because of the throng of people strolling by, almost like that of the Riva degl Schiavoni. The view from Lineadombra on the other end of the Zattere is terrific and gotten crowded because the reopening of the Dogana. Finally, people can walk around the tip and get the great view. I have never eaten there; what is the food and service like?
Ponte dell'Umilta, Dorsoduro, 19, Venice, Veneto , IT
Al Pesador Rialto
Sestiere San Polo,125, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
re: PBSF
To answer for Lineadombra, in my opinion it is a very good restaurant and very classy !
This is the traditional Venetian cooking can be a little revisited like this "Fegato alla veneziana" with polenta (classical) and figs for the modern.
On the other photo on a disc of polenta a piece of monkfish sauce martini (fish ideally cooked).
And of course not taking dessert they brought me every time a glass of Lemoncello ( if you
prefer you can have Grappa) with small biscuits of the house to eat facing the terrific view !
The only thing is that prices are very high (the value for money is not the same that at Antiche Carampane for example) but worth it for the view from the terrace and good food !
A tip: by asking nicely and if you do not have money to eat it will allow you to have a drink on their beautiful terrace. I forgot, I have never eaten inside but it is very beautiful and modern.
Something to be one of my favorite restaurants in Venice;-)
Antiche Carampane
Calle de la Carampane, 1911,San Polo, Venice, Veneto 30125, IT
Ponte dell'Umilta, Dorsoduro, 19, Venice, Veneto , IT
re: divinecomedie
Thank you so much for the write up. NICE. After coming to Venice for 30 years, dining with a view is no longer very important. Usually, we go to these places if generous guests staying with us insist on it. Even a spritz would probably set one back 20euro. I only noticed the restaurant last year when the Dogana finally re-opened and we were able to stroll around the Zattere to the Salute. And able to see and touch the white statue exhibited on the tip. I'll put it on long my 'wish' list just below the new Quadri.
re: PBSF
I'm afraid I haven't tried the Pesador' Riviera. I am not inclined to pay for a view unless it's before or after dinner (I like the expansive Giudecca Canal view, but the Chioschetto will do just fine), or until three people whose opinions I trust rave about the food.
A traveler's desire for a spectacular view is perfectly understandable...but I have seen to often where it's a substitute for other qualities, which is unfortunate. Doesn't mean there are not locales that combine view with lovely food and service -- thank heaven -- but that view will always have a price (naturally so).
re: livingvenice
What do you think oft Altanella? Its been on my go-to list for a long time.
or Alla Fontana? both have canal views and positively regarded food.
Alla Fontana
Fondamenta di Cannaregio 1102, Venice, Veneto , IT
Calle delle Erbe, Giudecca, 268, Venice, Veneto 30133, IT
re: jen kalb
I love this a little secret Trattoria of the Giudecca with this so special atmosphere "times gone" just like the Pensione la Calcina or Seguso.
The tables are plastic, but covered with tablecloths and fine old papers menus with an engraving. The terrace overlooking the Giudecca Canal is so quiet and beautiful. The food is simple, very traditional and honest.
I remember a good "Fegato alla veneziana" ( no fig but caramelized Onions) and gnocchi even better with squid ink.
The White House is correct (a Tokai) if I remember...
I also remember a good Tiramisu (as good as eating in Gatto Nero in Burano) and a semifreddo with grapes in grappa.
Please note the address is almost always full as shown by the small wooden signs on the tables (= reservato) and it closes on Monday and Tuesday!
Enjoy !
Calle delle Erbe, Giudecca, 268, Venice, Veneto 30133, IT
re: jen kalb
Hm...I ate at Altanella quite a while ago, and don't remember it well enough to give an opinion! I do know lots of people like it. I like Fontanella very much, there's such a homey atmosphere on the Cannaregio canal owing to the high resident population (compared to San Marco or Dorsoduro, for example) -- makes a nice contrast. Marisa is another "home town" favorite -- it is the place to satisfy the insatiable -- the food there just keeps on coming... :)
Alla Fontana
Fondamenta di Cannaregio 1102, Venice, Veneto , IT
Calle delle Erbe, Giudecca, 268, Venice, Veneto 30133, IT
I'd definitely keep Carampane and Zucca on your list. Why not head out to Burano and Gatto Nero for some risotto di Gò, or branzino sotto sale...fine food, excellent service, super setting (and the chef/owner is a doll):
Gatto Nero da Ruggiero (Trattoria Al Gatto Nero)
Fondamenta della Giudecca,88, Venice, Veneto 30142, IT
Thanks for all your help. I recently returned from Europe, having spent 4 nights in Venice, before embarking on a cruise down the coast of Croatia. Since so many questions are asked about Venice restaurants (including by me), I hope my posting will be helpful. I scoured the internet, all the guidebooks, the Fodors forum, the Chowhound forum and solicited advice from friends who frequent Venice. I came up with a pretty long list of restaurants, which I gradually narrowed down. (I also wanted restaurants that would not require long walks at night in dressier shoes.)
Night 1 – On our first night we ate at Ristorante Da Ivo, http://www.ristorantedaivo.com. I cannot praise it highly enough. It is located on a back canal in the San Marco sestiere and is accessible on foot and by water. From Hotel Danieli it was a 10 or 15 minute walk, maximum. The restaurant is small and charmingly rustic. It is one of the most romantic places I have ever dined. Da Ivo has only roughly 10 tables. When we arrived at 7:30 it was empty, but it soon completely filled (a lot of the patrons were Italian). I would say that reservations are essential. I made reservations several weeks in advance, and we were seated at what I think is the best table, a table for two next to the window overlooking the canal. The service was extremely attentive, and you never had to ask for anything. The menu was quite varied, and they also had a number of specials for the evening (written in Italian, but explained clearly in English). With our cocktails they brought an amuse bouche of a roasted tomato-mascarpone crostini. We shared an antipasto course of fried zucchini blossom stuffed with crab. We also shared a first course of mushroom risotto (I say shared, but each portion looked like a full serving). For my second course I had tortellini in a spinach basil cheese sauce (actually another first course, but there were so many that sounded good I had to try it). My boyfriend had veal osso buco which was almost falling off the bone. With dinner we had a bottle of house merlot. Before dessert they brought bocconcini of chocolate-dipped gelato. For dessert, we shared a tiramisu. All of the food was delicious, and this was our favorite meal in Venice. Although I did not see the final bill, the restaurant is very expensive. We thought it was well worth it and would definitely return on any subsequent visit to Venice.
After-dinner 1 – We sat at Caffe Lavena, http://www.lavena.it, in Piazza San Marco listening to the orchestras. We only had drinks.
Breakfast 1, 2, 3 and 4 – We had a large buffet breakfast each morning in the rooftop restaurant at the hotel and were generally too full for lunch. That did not stop us, however, from having gelato daily!
Gelato 1 – On our first full day we visited Rosa Salva, http://www.rosasalva.it, on Campo Santi Giovanni e Paolo. The gelato was good. I had a scoop (pallina) of meringa mousse and one of zabaione mousse, but we loved the sandwiches. We shared a simple sandwich consisting of prosciutto, sliced boiled egg and mayonnaise on soft white sandwich bread. It was heavenly! I would try to replicate it here, but I'm sure it would not be the same.
Night 2 – For our second night we chose Ristorante da Rafaelle, http://www.ristorantedaraffaele.com. It is located on a back canal in the San Marco sestiere very near Campo Santa Maria del Giglio and the Hotel Gritti Palace. It was only a 10 minute walk from Hotel Danieli.
An aside: We had decided in advance to take a gondola ride using the gondola station next to the restaurant. After securing the gondola, my boyfriend went into Da Rafaelle and got drinks for us (spritz con Aperol for me) to drink during our ride, which began around 7:30. I highly recommend a sunset gondola ride; it was very romantic. We stayed mainly to quiet back canals with only a short stint on the Grand Canal (the route I preferred) before returning for our dinner.
Da Rafaelle is fairly large and has both interior and exterior dining. I had made a reservation requesting a canal-side table on the terrace, and it was waiting for us. The setting was lovely, as we could also enjoy the sight of the passing gondole. We had a bottle of Chianti Classico and shared a plate of prosciutto e melone for our antipasto course. The cantaloupe was wonderfully sweet. For our first course we shared a shrimp risotto (again, each portion looked like a full serving). For my second course I again chose another first – tagliolini with shaved black truffles. It was heavenly for a truffle fiend like me. My boyfriend had a beef filet. For dessert we shared a tartuffo (a ball of chocolate and vanilla gelato) floating in liqueur. Again the meal was delicious but not inexpensive.
After-dinner 2 – Since we were so close to the Hotel Gritti Palace we went to their bar, Bar Longhi, http://www.hotelgrittipalacevenice.co.... We got a table on the terrace on the Grand Canal. The views of the illuminated Santa Maria della Salute and the canal were beautiful, and a musician was playing the piano. It was a lovely, romantic setting.
Gelato 2 – On our second full day we had gelato at Gelateria Paolin in Campo Santo Stefano. I had a scoop of coconut and one of Malaga (rum-raisin). I think their gelato was definitely better than that of Rosa Salva.
Night 3 – On our third night we chose Ristorante Al Covo, http://www.ristorantealcovo.com, located in a small campiello in Castello. The walk was shorter than we anticipated, so we arrived before our reservation time. However, they graciously allowed us to be seated anyway. There were several rooms inside, but we chose one of the few tables outside. The restaurant is owned by a woman from Texas and her Italian husband; they were both very nice. For our antipasto course we shared a large mixed seafood plate: clams, mussels, shrimp (small, large & alien), razor clams, anchovies, sardines and sea snails. Continuing the theme, we shared a seafood risotto for our first course. For my second course, I had a—guess what—seafood fritto misto which also included, among other things, oysters, calamari and baby sole. The batter was very light and crispy and not at all greasy. All the seafood was fresh. My boyfriend had a breaded veal chop. While it was a nice meal, it was not our favorite. Also, the service was rather slow. As a result we decided to skip dessert.
After-dinner 3 – We returned again to Caffe Lavena. We thought that their orchestra was more lively than that of Florian or Quadri and had made a small acquaintance, such that they would accept requests. We had our dessert there, a lovely "cup" (really a bowl on a pedestal) of vanilla gelato with rum, whipped cream and rum-soaked sponge cake balls. It was quite decadent.
Gelato 3 – On our last full day we had our gelato at Gelato da Nico on the Zattere ai Gesuati (very near the vaporetto stop). I had a delicious scoop of amaretto, complete with crumbled amaretti cookies. They also had the prosciutto, boiled egg and mayo sandwiches we liked so much. We looked longingly at the nearby Gelateria Lo Squero as we passed, but, alas, it was only 10 minutes since our last gelato and too soon for another.
Night 4 – We had to get up early the next morning, so I had made reservations for dinner at the hotel's rooftop Restaurant Terrazza Danieli, http://www.danielihotelvenice.com/en/.... When we arrived they were rather abrupt, but once we gave the name of our reservation, they changed completely and took us to a table next to the railing overlooking the Grand Canal. The view was splendid! We shared a lovely, large caprese salad as a starter and a risotto for the first course. Both of us being huge risotto fans, we were in heaven in Venice. For the second course, I had a veal filet, and my boyfriend had a mixed seafood plate with an immense prawn. For dessert we had a chocolate torte with coconut gelato. We also had a bottle of red wine (I don't remember what label). The food was quite good, much better than you would normally expect from a hotel restaurant; however, it was also the most expensive. We liked the fact that we didn't have to do any walking and could just go down to our room though.
After-dinner 4 – Since we didn't want to go far, we had our after-dinner drinks in the hotel's lobby bar, the Bar Dandolo. The drinks may have been a trifle bit more expensive, but it was a very regal, or, I should say, ducal, setting, since the hotel was once the palazzo of Doge Enrico Dandolo. Again, it was also convenient.
Al Covo
Campiello della Pescaria,Castello 3968, Venice, Veneto 30122, IT
re: delainefoss
Thank you so much for reporting back. Wish we had your budget. The last time de dined at Da Ivo, our guests paid; your report saids it all. I like your story about the greeting at the Terrazza Danieli; We can't afford the place but occasionally we would stroll pass the check-in/concierge desk to enjoy the lobby. The staff behind the desk invariably gives us the sizing up look. It is not our style but always interesting to see how the Dandolo family lived. Glad you also enjoyed the other restaurants.


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