text:
- Theodore A. Hoppe
- Montpelier, VT
- United States
This conversation is closed.
What are we to do with "Comment Trolls" here at TED?
Stephen Downs writes on his blog that I subscribe to, "OLDWeekly. He recently wrote on the subject of " comment trolls."
"We'll use the word 'science' a little loosely here, but meanwhile there's an interesting survey on the consequences of comment trolls: "it appeared that pushing people's emotional buttons, through derogatory comments, made them double down on their preexisting beliefs." The author offers an explanation, "the psychological theory of motivated reasoning," akin to Hume's dictum, but I think the interplay between thoughts and feelings (if they are even distinct things) is a lot more complex than that. That said, I can attest first-hand to the way comment trolls can drain the life out of a discussion, out of a website, out of living itself. Which, of course, if their intent."
The author Downes is referring to is Chris Mooney. His article in Mother Jones observes:
"In the context of the psychological theory of motivated reasoning, this makes a great deal of sense. Based on pretty indisputable observations about how the brain works, the theory notes that people feel first, and think second. The emotions come faster than the "rational" thoughts—and also shape the retrieval of those thoughts from memory. Therefore, if reading insults activates one's emotions, the "thinking" process may be more likely to be defensive in nature, and focused on preserving one's identity and preexisting beliefs."
Have a look at the article and share your thoughts.
Jan 19 2013: "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." -- Hermann Hesse
Something to think about when we are getting angry at someone.
Jan 19 2013: Very wise Arkady:>)
We are mirrors to each other...reflections of our "self" all the time. When something "disturbs" us, we might want to look "internally" for the reason:>)Jan 20 2013: How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860
If someone posts an idea or a question on a public forum, they are willingly seeking responses from various points of views and experiences. The author takes on the responsibility to choose who, how and what responses he or she needs to react to. After all the author opened the question here.
Some comments will aim to ridicule, some may be ignorant, some out of context, or some would take one word off the subject and dissect it out of proportion. But there are some comments that are intelligent, contributing to the discussion and at time brilliant but with a tinge of sarcasm. In any case the author should assume the responsibility on what is valuable and not the person who comments. Should the author aim for a specific kind of response, then the question should be posed to a specific kind of audience, not in an open public forum. After all everyone has an opinion and any fool can comment, criticize or speak up..they have the right to do so! So do I .. Jan 19 2013: I'd second Mark Kurtz's opinion. Nobody can make me feel insulted without my permission. TED community is great at curbing emotions. I have participated in some rather hot topics here - abortion, gun control, Israeli-Palestinian relations. All were great discussions - very meaningful, educational, and respectful.
You don't deal with trolls. You deal with yourself. There are plenty of topics and people to get angry and frustrated about. None are really worth it.
Mark Kurtz
Jan 19 2013: Self mastery! The evidence for seeking mastery of self, emotions and reasoning seems abundant. Is mastering oneself the underlying topic here? Or is it trolls?
- +3
Good topic you introduce here!
Jan 19 2013: Kurt, have you read a post war on climate change that has deteriorated to a insult slinging match by some very intelligent people? It's amazing to read as it also turns into a "link" war.
Mark Kurtz
Jan 19 2013: No, I haven't read, but I know of some of it observing here. TED's moniker is ideas worth spreading, note the word worth. Someone feels something is worth their words. What is evident here is the definition of worth is subjective. Someone posts links to offer their stance on something worthy.
- +1
Self mastery is a worthy concept and it is worth a separate idea conversation. Loving your fellow humans will always be the right pathway to better relations. You cannot love people by striking them physically or verbally or through the written word.
I am not aware of a world wide rule that trolls must act like trolls. The question above asks what are we to do. I don't know the answer to Mr. Hoppe's concern. It does seem right to promote mastery of self which in love will result in patience and tolerance of others. It's all about good quality, civil behavior. More of this happens with love and this must be accepted deep inside a person. I know this is true because of my own ugly behavior in the past. Love is the better way.
Jan 19 2013: Sometimes I love reading these wars for the knowledge of the two combatants is brought to bear if they don't resort to throwing links at each other and starts a round of knit picking at the veracity of the links.
Yet you can't beat what you stated. "Self mastery"Jan 19 2013: Yes, we can learn to own our feelings
Others do not make us angry. we get angry.
There's a big difference.
Jan 19 2013: Typing away is sometimes easy, and doesn't require much thinking at times.
- +2
Noone interrupts our written response, so it's easy to....."let it rip"....
Whereas if we were face to face with a group of people, surely one or more of them would interrupt us in mid-sentence to correct us, or put up an opposition.
There is also the factor that what you write might be perceived wrongly by the reader, and thus contribute to the trolling behavior. Although some people, like the example in your link, need no excuse for their harsh words.
I have had comments, which I felt were in harmony with the other party's thoughts, perceived as an attack.....and then I've had to go through explaining how they were misunderstanding me.
I have also commented in direct opposition to what is being said, and the other person perceived it as my validation of their own thoughts....Go figure?
There is a site I use where you can even block the persons you consider to be trolls. You'll see their name, but you are in control of whether or not you read their comments....Funny thing is, you'll start to see a pattern, and usually all the members will block the same individual.....Nobody likes on-line trolls!
Conversation, of any type, is an art.....it is to be mastered.......Like Mark said, perhaps this is all about self-mastery.
Fritzie -
Jan 22 2013: The question of online trolling was featured last night on Al Jazeera news, as this is an extremely international problem. Here is a link for anyone interested. http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201212310234-0022452
- +2
There is also an infographic about how to identify trolls and what some large online venues, like Wikipedia, Facebook, Twitter, and Huffington Post do to try to keep real exchanges of ideas flowing, despite the attempts of trolls to stifle this.Jan 20 2013: Great article! The resulting conversation is awesome, too. The manner in which people have discussed how to react (or ignore) to trolls rather than "fix" the trolls is delightful.
I think my favorite line from the articles is: "In other words, it appeared that pushing people's emotional buttons, through derogatory comments, made them double down on their preexisting beliefs." It seems the troll method of attempting to bully others to believe similarly simply because the troll believes is counter-productive.
One of my favorite professors said "Beware the ipse dixit." Now there is research that reinforces the quote!!Jan 19 2013: TED had a real issue with trolls when they had a "thumbs down" button. It didn't long for people to figure out how to attacked others by having their comments TED Cred destroyed using multi accounts. I am sure some of us remember those days. Since then TED revised its commenting practices and its also very diligent about abusive commenting.
Still, we might all admit to being "bothered" by folks with contrasting opinions, It not hard to find comments like, "Stop throwing verbal bombs and listen up" and "so glad that you have come down from your throne." Remarks like, " You keep stalking me and asking for more...." indicate a problem. Comments such as this are not outrightly "abusive" but contribute to a dynamic of hostility. And its hard not to be drawn in by such commenting.
Jan 19 2013: Great article, I might have to reread it a few times to fully absorb it.
Fritzie -
Jan 19 2013: What you describe is an excellent reason not to have a thumbs down button! I think many don't mind at all contrasting opinions and in fact come to TED or any other conversation site precisely to be invited to consider a variety of viewpoints and world views. In contrast, comments that show a pattern of hostility in the effort to silence voices or to prevent the critique/questioning of claims and ideas are, I think, suitable to flag to the TED staff. We should all want, I think, to keep people around who engage in critical thinking and who "keep people honest" rather than have them run out of town by rudeness or accusations of stalking.
- +4
pat gilbert
Jan 20 2013: I have to agree with Fritzie on this Socratic thinking and all.
- +1
Theodore with a score of 1 point for every 6 posts has to be some kind of record. I don't know how this cannot go to your head, which may influence you tolerance of trolls such as myself?
Jan 20 2013: You are not a troll. Just terse sometimes.
Ken brown
Jan 21 2013: What is a Troll?
- +1
I've seen on blogs groups of people accuse each other as trolls and conspirawhako's but I have noticed that when people indulge in this online typing behavior they tend to use capitals a lot.
Jan 21 2013: it is getting out of hand these days. originally troll meant a person that is not interested in the conversation, but rather interested in provoking reactions just for the sake of it. they go in forums, and insult people or drop comments which they do not agree with, they just use them as a tool to create as much turmoil as they can.Jan 21 2013: Trolls seem to have evolved as species :)
How would you define 'troll ' in the context of this conversation ?
Who is this beast we are talking about ?
Jan 21 2013: In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3] The noun troll may also refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."
While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassment outside of an online context. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[4][5]
Read more here:
Jan 22 2013: So, you refer to 'troll' in its original meaning as Krisztián described in the comment above.
In this case , it's pretty simple. Using Marshall Mcluhan terminology , who famously said: " the medium is the message" , troll phenomenon,among many others, which we may like or don't, is a message of a new media, such as forums, chat rooms, or blogs; it is recent and has emerged quickly. Open online discussions is a kind of an intellectual entertainment and people do tend to entertain themselves differently. It's also an opportunity and opportunity always comes with a potential of abuse.
So, i would suggest to tolerate trolls as a wall paper in a hotel room ; they belong here. Maybe there are ' professional ' really mean trolls, but i guess , in the most of cases they are just people in a troll mood, which is allowed/created/supported by this particular kind of media inside democracy. It's a kind of a protest , empowered by the possibility to stay invisible and unidentified.
( btw. i haven't met them here on TED )
But, correct me if i am wrong, you seem to be more interested in people ' with convictions ' or strong beliefs, who ' feel first '. This phenomenon is much more complex.
Didn't you mean to discuss this old aged phenomenon in the context of new media ?
Thank you !
Don Anderson
Jan 22 2013: We all have issues that we are strongly passionate about, and can come across overly passionate about, irrational and even as a blockhead grief troll.
- +1
Also we need to accept that other posters here are also only human and have their own issues that they are strongly passionate about. Let's face it when you can't change others, you have to change how you respond to others.
We should keep in mind that people don't become members of the TED community to be grief trolls; instead we are here to be part of a unique community.
I hate to see when a conversations becomes argumentative instead of productive, and hope we all (myself included) can pause before submitting our post and think about rather it is argumentative are productive.
P.S. If you are arguing a point of view, please include facts (with links) to back it up, or at least reasoning behind your viewpoint.
Jan 22 2013: "people don't become members of the TED community to be grief trolls"
how do you know that? most obviously don't. but there might be some that do.
Jan 22 2013: There are always exceptions;
But considering grief trolls are doing it for the responses showing that they upset someone, and generally speaking TED members are not the type of people to give them their desired response.
I say it is likely that when a troll does came here looking to grief, he/she would move on looking for easier prey.
Jan 22 2013: probably you are right. i could not tell a single troll as of now. but i could name a person from recent history that probably was a borderline case. left already.Jan 22 2013: Of the many possable solutions to comment trolls I wish to address two.
1) If TED required a name and a location for each community member then your name and location are stamped on each of your comments. That is a form of taking responsibility for your comments. If I remain Jake from no place I can be as negative as I wish and rain on everyones parade and still be Bob here at home. Just by recognizing pet phrases I am sure that many members here at TED have multiple sign ons. They are here for the fight not to contribute.
2) What would happen if TED allowed more that two options on the FLAG symbol. I have never used it because it limits me to SPAM or inapproperiate.
In my limited time here on TED I have seen it go from a debate site that made you defend your argument based on factual and respectful responses. Responses now are ... what are you smoking ... your full of sh*t .... a BS reply ... brainwashed conservative teabaggers ... you get the picture.
The difference I see is then everyone then had a name and location ... now the people I think of as "comment trolls" do not. I have made these suggestions to TED but I do not think they took me serious. I do maintain that there are more cheap shot artist now than ever before.
I have become selective in who I respond to ... my choice. I select a fake name and no location and if the reply is cheap shots and smart aleck I simply reply no comment and do not respond to them again ... my choice. I have never used the FLAG because I am not for sure what is inapproperiate these days. Many comments on religious topics I consider way out of bounds ... however are considered good taste and even funny to a athiest ... that would make it very hard for a judge to determine what is right and wrong because there are so many filters to view through.
I accept that the majority of TED community members are liberal and athiest ... if I was offended by this I would have left a long time ago.
Jan 22 2013: You are right, it's difficult to determine what is inappropriate or not, as not everybody gets offended by the same remarks. My suggestion is to ignore those comments that we find to be ill-intentioned, that way we don't feed the trolls and they will eventually go away.
Jan 22 2013: Louis, Yours is a very christian attitude and mature ... turn the other cheek. I have many years working in law enforcement and no matter what direction you take the conversation they will find in their mind a means of declaring it a victory. If you ignore them they have defeated you because you cannot make a argument against them ... if you argue they will make assumptions and again claim victory .. they will bate you and change the issue and then you are on their turf and again they "win". They have no honor and seek to "win" at any cost. You can usually tell them as they resort to name calling and cursing soon into the conversation. At that point there is no further discussion .... when you argue with a fool after a while it is hard to tell which is which.
We need a better vehicle to identify and remove the "trolls". However, in the time being yours is the best solution awaiting a resolution.
Thanks for the reply. I wish you well.
Jan 22 2013: This is my reply to a response you made just now to me elsewhere in this thread but which lacks a reply button.
I too sometimes look at those flag options and feel that the behavior is not clearly either innappropriate or spam. In that case, I would probably check inappropriate.
But there have been times also when a particular comment standing alone is not the problem but is part of a clear pattern of trying to provoke or harass a person for sport or to silence him.
If the situation is not simple but still clearly affects discourse negatively by threatening to silence or drive away thoughtful and sincere people who are trying to shed light on a subject, I would send aan email to the Conversations staff flagging the problem.Jan 22 2013: Thanks for your sincere opinion, Robert.
I know what you mean when you say that for some people it's difficult not to respond to certain comments, but that's because we let our egos to come into play. Why should we worry about who claimed victory? I personally don't mind losing those battles, I don't go into forums to "defeat" people, but rather to help them if I can and learn new things.
I think it's a matter of egos. If trolls think that they have won the "battle" just because I did not reply to their flaming, good for them, but I won't feel bad about it.
Well, that's the way I see it.Jan 22 2013: I am glad, Bob, that you wrote you give the anonymous poster a chance before deciding not to respond. People protect their identities- name or profile- for multiple reasons. One may be to make it easier to be obnoxious. But another poster may live in a context in which she cannot speak her truth online without threat of offline retaliation. Some have been victims of unbalanced people attacking them online and have every reason to fear such bullying will follow them if the bully can locate them by name and place. Cyberbullying is real and sometimes also moves offline.
Aja posted some research some months back to the effect that allowing people to be anonymous makes people more likely to express their views in online discussion than if they must identify themselves by name and place.
Ignoring trolls denies them the attention they seek, so that many sites send a message Please Don't Feed the Trolls. But trolls know this strategy and often harass their targets by making accusations that the target feels he cannot let stand - that ignoring it can convey the impression he has no defense against the charge. For some people using their real names, even a hint of accusation can be highly disruptive of their professional lives or relationships. A potential employer or client may not take the time to check whether it is true- easier to retain another person.
I agree that if someone is simply being rude, one can often simply not respond.
Jan 22 2013: I see your point, real names do pose some problems.
For example, let's say that a forum user calls a retailer a scammer. Obviously, he is either telling the truth or slandering the retailer. But who is to decide? Maybe the retailer is actually a scammer and the poster is doing potential costumers a favor. On the other hand, If he's lying, he should be brought to court.
Anyway, I think cyberbullying is quite a different matter from the classic trolling that seeks to ruin conversations out of fun. Although, It is a problem that should also be addressed in some way.
Jan 22 2013: I mentioned this case in part because the solution of requiring names raises this bigger and very serious problem.
In the link that Theodore gave us, the trolls were not just trying to have fun, I think, but to derail the conversation so that ideas could not be exchanged and considered in a thoughtful way.Jan 22 2013: The problem with expecting a bio is, what does it have to do with the topic at hand? The short answer is : NOTHING.
There are plenty of people on forums like these that would prefer to make ad hominem attacks (attacking the arguer, not the argument) in lieu of actually making sound arguments for or against a position.
If a debater lists in their bio that they are young, do we dismiss them because they are inexperienced? If a debater lists that they are old, do we dismiss them because they are out of touch? If they are from California, do we dismiss them because they drink the bong water? If they are from the south, do we dismiss them because they might be religious?
None of these reasons are valid, and yet people actually DO these things.
What is truly important is to debate the merits of a position, nothing else.
Robert said: "If TED required a name and a location for each community member then your name and location are stamped on each of your comments. That is a form of taking responsibility for your comments"
Users can simply lie on their bio, so what would be the value of it? Answer: NOTHING!
Read my Bio everyone, and you will see what I mean...Jan 20 2013: Perhaps, watching Monty Python's "Argument Clinic" video needs to be required to open an account in a forum :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9YJan 19 2013: Nothing.
Keep them involved. (keep me involved. I guess I am a sort of troll, especially since I cannot always get back to a topic soon after, and it makes me look like one)
Sometimes one doesn't have internet time so they quickly punch out a response.
My internet is always failing, for days.
Everyone is of a different age, with different experiences, ideas and buttons, and it takes some time to learn what all my buttons are and how to deal more effectively with them.
Sometimes it's good to be emotional, other times not so.
Let people be people. Let them be who they are.
Why label them? That seems a way of trying to control them.
I am very guilty of that myself and I do not feel very smart or even intelligent.
Certainly no where near as intelligent or smart as many on Ted are (or seem to be)
That always makes me look like a troll, but I don't feel like one.
Not ever having anyone to talk to for most of my life, many times evokes spurts of ideas from me, comments and so on.
I have to let them out as best I can and as best I know how.
I always have to look in the mirror during the day and know that ultimately I am then looking at the real problem.
For some, this is a new experience, reaching out into the world where many others will see, read and even ponder what they think. That is a risk, thrilling at times, embarrassing, irritating, supportive and not so well accepted.
Jan 19 2013: Great comments. I seeing that this is becoming a community building discussion where we get to learn about ourself and each other.Jan 19 2013: I am not sure, Theodore, what is included in the term "comment troll." I feel like people accuse others of being trolls in quite different sorts of circumstances. Is a troll someone who uses his comments to prevent people/distract people from working through ideas together in a thoughtful way (because the person doesn't value such discourse or the idea of a venue for such discourse)? Is it anyone who uses rudeness or nastiness or personal attack to try to drive away from a site those who question the person's beliefs or the holes in the person's arguments? Is it those who participate in a site under a host of different names so as to gang up on someone whose ideas they don't like?
What are you using the term to include?
Jan 19 2013: Good question, but I am going to leave this open ended and suggest people refer to the article's interpretation.
But I will add that I've found myself dealing with trolls and, I'll admit to acting like one at times, so for me, its about letting my emotions interfere with the discussion. And maybe we all get caught in that trap sometimes.
Jan 19 2013: Are you not obliged to offer your definition of what you mean by the nebulous word "Troll"? I get the feeling (and, subsequently, the thought) that this is about global warming, or climate change more than about vague, subversive, irrelevant, ill-meaning, recognition seeking contributors. You ask what can be done about a problem, but you have not defined the problem. Please define your terms, and thanks for the post!Jan 19 2013: One reason I asked, Theodore, is that situations are so different.
Lets take the case on any site in which someone spreads misinformation. Sometimes the person might do so maliciously or strategically, but sometimes the person honestly doesn't know it is only a mistake/misconception, a rumor, propaganda, or something of the like.
Let's say another discussant points out the mistake or misconception and the person gets defensive. A certain ego investment in being right it pretty typical in social settings (including on TED). Does this person become a troll?
Some of these behaviors wouldn't be tolerated in a professional or scholarly setting, but in social discourse the standards are often different. Most people learn over time whose claims tend not to be valid in particular areas and know to check for reliable sources, while other people are considered more credible on the subject or less likely to over-reach dramatically in their claims. To some degree people's decisions on how much they interact and with whom in different settings depends on their tolerance for these sorts of situations. It shapes who participates in a site (we don't often see professional scientists here, for example, talking about science) and in what they participate there.
Consistent, unproductive harassment of others is a different and clear case, in my opinion. I think the TED staff works on this issue privately with the culprits in addition to deleting comments meant only to harrass or intimidate.
Jan 22 2013: Fritzie, I have jumped the gun on several conversations based on the first glance or initial report. I have even refered to a subject matter expert when they were not.
I am sure I will be wrong again .... but each time I have had someone I respected tell me that I was in error .... or guided me in another direction .... crow is not my favorite dish and I have eaten my share.
What I do appreciate is that on those occassions I can tell the difference between the lurking vulture and the person who wished to correct an honest error.
I have read some comments that I thought went over the line, in my opinion. With the thousands of comments the staff does quite well. Perhaps a revision of the FLAG to include more that just inapporiate and spam ... maybe a comments block to state your case against the reply. Then that could be reviewed and judged accordingly. There should be some standard of how many substanuated complaints you could receive before disciplinary actions are taken against you.
Just a thought. Bob.Jan 24 2013: This is just a comment but trolling looks viruletic in nature. Hammer through the cell wall if it's a spike injector and flood the cell with it's own data. Bored individuals.
Jan 24 2013: Ken,
I wanted to acknowledge your comment about fraud in science research.
Forbes.com picked the story up also and supported it with an article from "Nature". It is obviously a problem.
"Fraud, plagiarism, cherry-picked results, poor or non-existent controls, confirmation bias, opaque, missing, or unavailable data, and stonewalling when questioned have gone from being rare to being everyday occurrences. Just look at the soaring retraction level across multiple scientific publications and the increasingly vocal hand wringing of science vigilantes. Hardly a prestigious university or large pharmaceutical company is immune, with the likes of Harvard, Cal Tech, Johns Hopkins, Ohio State, University of Kentucky, and the University of Maryland recently fingered byRetraction Watch."
"A surge in withdrawn papers is highlighting weaknesses in the system for handling them."
A third related story puts an interesting twist on it.
"The data seem suggest a certain laxity in behavior that might accompany tenure and a stable academic job. At the same time the findings may again illuminate the intense pressure and battles for funding that often tempt academic scientists to stray from the righteous path. Ultimately, studies like this may put the spotlight more on the dysfunctional aspects of our current academic research system rather than simply on gender bias."
This was what I found note worthy:
"What was also interesting was that the misconduct depended on the rank of the researcher; it seems that 88% of faculty members committing fraud were men, compared to 69% of postdocs and 58% of students."
Jan 25 2013: This is great Theo thanks.
I was given the link by someone on one our politico blogs who has fallen with fearist fervour and started weaving a great story of climate change science, the bilderberg group to our local ice cream manufacturers. It was that one link that peaked my interest. So I thought i would ask someone who regularly reads papers and who has a vested interest in it.
That last link was interesting, it raises a lot of questions but it's good to see the science community quickly adjusting and changing to suit, If this got out to the media it could be a potential for fearist mongering which I've fallen for quite a few times.Jan 25 2013: Anytime there is a paycheck or profit involved, there is a potential for fraud and corruption, but that doesn't mean that everyone that earns a paycheck or makes a profit is corrupt.
These articles actually point out what is great about science. Unlike matters of unquestioning faith, science is a process that doesn't rely on blind acceptance or appeals to authority. It demands objective data and rigorously defined and reproducible experiments. This is why falsified research gets exposed in the first place.
Jan 26 2013: Excellent point!Jan 20 2013: Isn't pride and vanity at the source of this behavior? We tend to over-rate our own opinions - this is why we feel compelled to broadcast them, I have been guilty of it myself. Getting "likes" for my posts still tickles my ego. We take pride that our conversations become "featured" and cherish those "score points". We are very reluctant to let other people "have it their way". Well, I, mostly speak for myself, so if someone disagrees, we can have a flamed discussion about it :-).Jan 20 2013: Theodore, wonderful topic
I set up a conversation, which became "featured" conversation on an idea to try to figure out how to improve America's education system and it was going great for a week until a new user and comment troll "Brock Hardwood" showed up and sabotaged the discussion with misinformation and spin -- "drain the life out of a discussion... [which is his intent]". I come to this website to try to start conversations to figure out how to improve America's education and within a week end up with some troll and grief commenter stalking me. He uses rhetorical remarks and even follows my profile spamming me, I'll bet he shows up and posts here because he monitors my posts. It's absurd. The simplest way for TED to deal with comment trolls is to hire more and effective comment moderators, which includes banning people who ruin the discourse such as Brock Hardwood (they often cry first amendment and censorship).
They could also give comment moderating powers to exemplar regulars which seem to be yourself, Robert Winner, Krisztián Pintér, Fritzie Reisner, Colleen Steen, edward long, pat gilbert, and others. Another idea would be to give the poster of the conversation some moderating power to remove disrespectful and destructive comments from their conversation.
Jan 20 2013: Censorship is never the answer...
from Petar: " I'll bet he shows up and posts here because he monitors my posts"
What is truly annoying about you Petar, is that you edit your posts AFTER a response....As you just did. Oh well, I can accept that you do that...(Which I am willing to admit that I edit my own responses too, after you do yours.) It is a pretty devious practice if you ask me. You could have just responded, which would have been intellectually honest, but apparently you are just not capable of intellectual honesty.
On to my original response:
Petar, just because you posted a conversation, doesn't mean your idea is a good one. A conversation involves more than just one person. It is an exchange of ideas, or even a debate. You claim that I drained the life out of your discussion. That might be true. However it could be just as true that those who may have supported your position given information only from you, simply realized that they don't after being exposed to an alternative point of view. That is what debate is all about.
You may hate that I oppose your position, but that doesn't mean I don't have a right to oppose your position. You have adopted a character assassination strategy which has failed miserably, and shame on you for your ad hominem attacks.
I welcome anybody to read my comments (and Petar's for that matter, because I don't fear alternative points of view), and ask themselves if I am on topic and debating the ISSUE itself. That is what TED is all about.
Petar, I welcome comments and disagreement, because I am not afraid of them. I have no secret agenda that fears being exposed. Can you say the same thing?
Just because YOU started a conversation, doesn't mean that YOU are not the actual troll, Petar, nor does it automatically make me one because I refute your BS points again and again.
Jan 20 2013: The point that many seem to agree on here is that we can't change others, we can only change ourselves, and the way we response to others.
TED allows everyone to have their say (within the rules) no matter how wrong or right we may be.
This community generally gages for itself what is meaningful and what is not.
My suggestion is to reply to question and not to the person.Jan 20 2013: I fear this thread will become derailed if people begin to use it to name names of individuals they believe are trolls.
What you two raise is the trickiest issue. What one person sees as aggressively defending a point of view consistently in a way that gathers attention for it, the other may see as obstructing discussion and trolling.
The situation may arise most often when someone believes the premise or assumptions which people accept implicitly without careful consideration are actually wrong and that they can make a real contribution to the discussion by exposing that. Examples might be strongly held religious or anti-religious beliefs, prejudices about people of particular faiths, nationalities, or professions, or pseudoscience. Richard Dawkins, I believe, uses the term "infectious repetition" to refer to the way groups of people can start believing something just for hearing it repeated often enough and without critical scrutiny.
This sort of aggressive drawing of attention to a particular point of view or to a possible great flaw in the premise underlying an argument can greatly alter the course of the thread but is different, I think, from discussion practices such as name-calling, ridiculing people for beliefs they don't even hold to, labeling people with a category meant to be demeaning or insulting, and so forth.Jan 20 2013: I'd like to share my experience, if I may... I have participated in some forums where I was considered a troll and even banned. I apologize in advance for being judgmental. My intent here is to help people avoid these situations. As I read your discourse, I see some phrases that, in my opinion, need to be avoided. They are simply asking for a flamed response:
"Brock, please stop lying. 1. Competition lowers prices because it takes away a monopolist's rent. Most everyone (except for you?) knows this."
Nobody likes to be called a liar, especially for voicing their opinion. Generalizations are never true and can never be shown to be true (which, of course, is a generalization). So, "Most everyone (except you)..." is a no-no for me. "Every kindergartener knows that..." - another example of a rhetoric language I read in another forum.
"What is truly annoying about you Petar..."
I edit my posts too. I like this feature. Once in a while, we say something that we regret or wish we had said in a different way or simply see a grammar mistake in what we wrote. For example, I'm not sure if I should be writing this here. In general (speaking of generalizations), I try to avoid expressing my annoyance at other people (look at me, how smart and wise and humble I am and better listen to what I say!) :-)
I don't mean to pick on you, guys. I just thought that you provide a great illustration of how we can deal with a troll inside ourselves.
Jan 21 2013: "I edit my posts too. I like this feature. Once in a while, we say something that we regret or wish we had said in a different way or simply see a grammar mistake in what we wrote."
A grammar mistake is a perfectly reasonable reason to edit. However, changing the content of a post in a significant way AFTER someone has responded is shady. It is also time consuming. There are no TED notifications for edits, so it forces someone to reread every post, again and again, to ensure that they are not being made to look like a fool...
Consider this example: If I posted the question, "What is 1 + 1" and you responded with "2," you would probably consider the question closed and never bother to visit it again...What if I then went back and edited the original question to now ask, "What is 2 + 2?" Your response would still remain "2" and it would make you look like an idiot through no fault of your own. Furthermore, you would never know I did this unless you went back to reread my question.
A good solution to this would be to only allow edits for a limited amount of time... ie 30 minutes or something practical like that.
After someone has responded to a post, the proper way to continue the discussion is to hit the "Reply" link. Even if you said something you regret... You can always apologize or correct your mistake in your reply.
Jan 21 2013: That is another ethical rule of mine. If there are replies to my posts, I only allow myself minor edits that do not change the point.
Again, I don't want to judge here, but you seem to take this issue too close to heart. The best way not to look like a fool is not to say anything at all. Once I post something, I risk being misunderstood, misinterpreted, insulted, etc. I just always keep this in mind when I write in a public forum. As Rene Brown has explained, vulnerability is a part of our life (http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html).
But my point was not about editing posts. It was about expressing annoyance at other people for whatever reason. I treat my annoyance as MY issue. I have no control over what others think or say. I think, I have a much better chance controlling my own actions than actions of others. I may still feel annoyed, but choose not to write about it.
Also, I'm always aware of my own hypocrisy. I can say "I do not want to judge" all I want, but this is exactly what I'm doing here. So, if you choose to be annoyed at me lecturing you, you are fully justified to do so :-).Jan 21 2013: "but you seem to take this issue too close to heart...."
I actually don't, but the ability to edit after replies is a subject that needs to be addressed, and as such, it is worth bringing up and illustrating its potential pitfalls.
"It was about expressing annoyance at other people for whatever reason." or "Nobody likes to be called a liar"
Sometimes people actually do engage in shady activities, lie, or have hidden agendas in forums. It is naive to think nobody does these things. I believe in staying on topic, but sometimes you have to challenge someone on their motives in order to keep a debate honest. Of course, challenging motives isn't the same thing as petty name calling. That is always a bad practice.
Jan 21 2013: Although, I do think that motives are important, "challenging other people's motives" sounds a bit aggressive. It implies the judgment of the motives not being honest or worthy, a hidden disapproval - don't you think? What is your motive for doing that? This attitude quickly backfires, as you may see.
"Understanding other people's motives" - perhaps, I would put it this way. Would you agree?Jan 21 2013: Just type the word "Edit" or "Edited" before the sentence or paragraph or adding to the post otherwise if someone picks up on this behavior and outs the person, that person becomes suspect but so does the person who was observant and all who get involved in the ensuing "battle"
Typing "Edit" is a courtesy but not a rule and in no way am i conveying you must but it helps.Jan 22 2013: ""challenging other people's motives" sounds a bit aggressive."
A certain degree of aggressiveness can be necessary in debate. Consider the alternative: Standing by passively in the face of incessant misinformation. Sometimes a lie must be called out. Sometimes the liar must be called out.
Motive is fair game. Take the voucher conversation I actively participate in as an example. Vouchers are about circumventing the 1st amendment and funding religion with tax dollars, pure and simple. However, proponents would never admit to that. Instead, they make absurd arguments about anything and everything except their actual motive. Even if their arguments are bad, even if THEY know there arguments are bad, they KNOW that the motive is even worse so they are forced to perpetuate the bogus argument instead. It is a con, it is misdirection, it is dishonest, and it is fair game to be called out.
Think of it this way. If a used car salesman wants to sell you a car that, he knows, has engine troubles, does he show you the engine, or the vanity mirror and the stereo? In debate, it is vital that people demand to see 'the engine' even if that means being prudently aggressive. THAT is what makes debate useful and important.
Note that I am not talking about it being OK to be a troll. I'm saying that we can't be afraid of a fight. Debate IS disagreement, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Jan 22 2013: Have you read the article in Theodore's link? It says that heated arguments are, in fact, counterproductive. They make people defensive and convinced in their preexisting beliefs more than before. Don't you think so?Jan 22 2013: "It says that heated arguments are, in fact, counterproductive. They make people defensive and convinced in their preexisting beliefs more than before. Don't you think so?"
That assumes that I am trying to convince the person I am debating with. I am not. Rarely would that ever be a worthwhile or even realistic goal. My focus is on making rational arguments for my position, and illustrating that their position is without merit. I do this for the casual reader who may or may not have made up their minds yet on a position.
The person I am debating is only one person, one vote, and he/she may have an agenda anyway, so what would be the point in trying to convince them? - none! However, the people who read what I write, who haven't made up their minds yet, can be thousands of votes.
People are smart. They can tell the difference between rational arguments and absurd ones. Especially after a thoughtful and full debate.
Jan 22 2013: There is a valid point raised here that is often overlooked. Unlike interactions or debates between two people on the telephone or a booth in a cafe, the goals or tactics in online interaction are often focused not on the person at hand but on third parties, a few or the many.
Sometimes, as Brock writes, the goal may be to persuade others of a view rather than to persuade the immediate other person, who may be entrenched in his views. And comments meant to ridicule another may also be aimed at a listening/reading audience. The target may not really care what the perpetrator thinks of him or his views or reasoning but be very concerned about what those he respects may mistakenly accept about him.Jan 22 2013: Re: "My focus is on making rational arguments for my position, and illustrating that their position is without merit."
"Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them." -- David Hume.
You simply rationalize your passion, your agenda. It's a very normal thing to do. But so does everyone else. Why do you believe that your position has more merit than the one of your opponent? Do you ever question your own motives or agendas?Jan 20 2013: I like what you said in your second Paragraph but might i add that the term "Comment Moderator" has now taken on negative as well as positive pending on whether you have been moderated? before.
How about an unofficial office that has no power other than an impartial "judgement" (for lack of a better word) upon the subject argued but this office must be respected by all in the community, it must be given gravitas and mana otherwise it will not be taken seriously. Who ever holds this office must be considered by most to be fair and relatively impartial and if this office is comment attacked by an individual then a moderator will step in.
Basically all what you said with a bit more detail. How about "Post Mediator" One or both parties can call for a mediation as a quick exit out of a devolving situation.
Edit This "Post Mediator" might choose not to participate if the calling has been deemed as a manipulation of said service
Jan 21 2013: This idea of "moderating" may work at other sites but TED is a hopefully more evolved community in many ways. It really does come back to self awareness and self regulation, a little bit collective consciousness within the group.
Many that have commented here are frequent contributor to the discussions and it is in all of our interest to act as a community and demonstrate respect toward one another, and to be open to learning and growth.
Jan 21 2013: Yes, if anything this is what i have learned from this site. Theo, would you look at this link, it's a bit off topic.
Now back on topic.
TED doesn't have much trolling as other conversant sites but the news agencies are rife with it amongst the posters.Jan 20 2013: Flaming and trolls don't disturb me at all. If I happen to disagree with someone's opinion, then I either reply to it or just ignore it. That's all. Why should I get upset about comments made by people that I don't even know? Some people take forums a bit too seriously, in my opinion. After all, heated discussions are part of our world and shouldn't be swept under the rug unless people were glaringly promoting illegal activities. Every voice should be heard.
Other than that, I think it's important to prevent people from flooding and spamming all around. Nobody should be allowed to take over the forum.
Jan 20 2013: i'm kind of sure you also take some things seriously, and you are probably upset about people deliberately try to ruin those things out of fun.
Jan 20 2013: I never get upset on a forum, I just state my opinion and read others'. That's all. And if I don't like the forum rules and policies, then I just go onto another one. I never take things personally.
Jan 20 2013: who said "on a forum"?Jan 20 2013: I thought it was implicit, that's where trolls live and thrive, right?
Anyway, outside a forum, it's also easy for me to ignore hurtful comments by random people. Of course, I may answer back for the sake of it, but I would never take it personally. I usually give my reasoned opinion without expecting those bullies to change their minds. But if they do, good for them. Regardless of the result, it's easy for me to move on.
I don't mind hearing different opinions at all, even if they are malicious and insulting. What I don't like is people taking over. I don't want to hear the same opinion over and over again, so I try to avoid such tiring people. Ill-intentioned criticism cannot ruin anything for me.
Jan 20 2013: listen. it would be easier if you did not try to derail the conversation. i was not talking about comments either. listen again:
i'm kind of sure you also take some things, any things, seriously, and you are probably upset about people deliberately try to ruin those things out of fun.
am i right about it or not? or you continue playing hide and seek?Jan 20 2013: Alright, I do take some things seriously, but certainly not ill-intentioned criticism (and I thought that's what this thread is about).
Jan 20 2013: no it is not. it is about people who deliberately try to ruin the conversation. that is trolling. it is the same as walking on a football field throwing stones to the water when a guy tries to catch some fish. tell me if you don't mind those either.Jan 20 2013: As I said, I do mind if they are spamming and taking over the conversation, thus silencing other people's views. But if they are just making insulting remarks, I don't mind them, I just move onto the next comment.
Jan 20 2013: and i don't care if they ruin your flower garden, or your football match, or your movie experience, why would i care then? we don't care about each other. nice thinking.Jan 20 2013: I did not say that I don't care about others, I just stated my opinion on this matter. Trolls are not much of a problem for me.
I also came to this thread to read about what others had to say about trolling and I guess many users care more than I do.
I also think that if most people care about trolling, the mods should do something about it, but I personally don't care (except for spamming).
Jan 20 2013: next time if you don't care about something, don't tell those that do that they should not. accept that some people might care more. just like you would in many other situations. this conversation is over on my part.Jan 20 2013: I never said that. I only shared my view on trolling and how some people react to it. Of course, people are entitled to think and act differently.Jan 19 2013: You said "Loosely" so i'll take it that not all out there are in agreement which is only fair.
It's sobering and only brings to mind of past postings i've done that though not expletive they were emotionally driven and can be cast as trolling, not good.
He's right about the climate change war and how both sides tend to gravitate towards insults. Thought provoking article.
More to the point why?


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Shock Adjustment – What does it do?
Bicycle suspension has become more and more complicated every year. In the store, your shock seemed great with knobs, valves and doofers coming out the ying-yang, the adjustability seemed limitless. Now, as you are in the moments before a ride trying to get the shock set up, the only thing limitless is confusion.
Shock setup is to say the least, less than intuitive. . . .
The two most widely used types of air shocks on the market are Fox and Marzocchi, although they are based on different technology, adjustment is relatively similar. In this article I will go over the adjustment of a Fox DHX-5 and a Marzocchi Roco Air TST-R. If you are using a different shock the air pressures are similar to what I will mention but it is a good idea to consult your manual
On first inspection, the DHX and the Roco look quite similar. They both feature two air cartridges, a rebound knob and an Pedaling Efficiency Switch.
That is great. . .but – what do they do?
The main air cartridge is your main spring, this is the side mounted valve on the main body. The pressure in this valve will control the overall stiffness and sag on your bike. When setting up your shock, regardless of brand it is a good idea to start by inflating your body weight in air pressure. (if you weigh 170lbs, inflate to 170psi) From this base there is room for adjustment. In a Marzocchi shock you will likely let out air while a Fox will require increased pressure. Adjustment from this reference point should be made to adjust for optimal sag (usually between 20 and 30 percent) based on riding type.
The Second, smaller air cartridge will adjust how progressive the shock is. Simply, the more air you put in the assist valve, the harder it will be to bottom out. When setting up your bike, if unsure, make the two air-pressures equal and adjust from there.
On the Fox shock, you will also notice a knob called the bottom out adjustment. This knob controls the air volume in the boost valve. Wound all the way in is the lowest volume setting, where the bike will ramp up (get stiffer) late in the travel. Wound out, in the high volume setting the shock will ramp up slower through the entire length of the travel creating a more even feel.
Rebound adjustment will control how fast the shock 'springs back' after being compressed. The rebound knob is a small dial found at the base of the shock on the main body. When adjusting rebound there are two requirements to think about. The rebound should me slow enough that it does not give a bucking sensation and fast enough that it has decompressed fully before the next hit. Remember; when it comes to rebound, increasing rebound will equate to a slower return.
The Last adjustment on the shock is the Pedal Efficiency Switch. This adjustment is where you will find numerous confusing names which all pretty much mean the same thing. Fox calls their system ProPedal while Marzocchi uses TST. What are these adjustments? When engaged, the shock will have reduced pedal bob and be more efficient while climbing. To engage the switch move the pro-pedal to 'Max' position. On the Roco shock, rather than max/min, labels you will see CL and DS. CL is used while climbing while DS is used while descending. Simple enough?
It should also be noted that there are both min. and max. pressures for all shocks. Be sure to check labels and your owner's manual as it can be potentially dangerous to be outside the recommended pressure range.
Your shock adjustment will not be perfect out of the box. The best way to dial it in is to throw a shock pump in your bag and hit the trails. Adjust it as you go.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
If you can dream it, you can do it. -Walt Disney
Quality is a great business plan. -John Lasseter
Let's make some funny pictures. -Tex Avery
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -Howard Zinn
When critics sit in judgment it is hard to tell where justice leaves off and vengeance begins. -Chuck Jones
And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? -Jesus
A man should never neglect his family for business. -Walt Disney
What's most important in animation is the emotions and the ideas being portrayed. -Ralph Bakshi
Once you have heard a strange audience burst into laughter at a film you directed, you realize what the word joy is all about. -Chuck Jones
Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -Buddhist Proverb
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Aligning Frames
Learn about animation from the pros
4 posts • Page 1 of 1
Aligning Frames
I am having trouble trying to align frames properly. I use both paper and digital media. I wanted to know if there is anyone who can provide help or offer some sort of link that can help me further my personal technique.
Thank you in advance!
Video games, illustration and Animation is my life. I can't see myself with out them.
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Re: Aligning Frames
Not sure exactly what you need for your process, but if you're using traditional animation software there's probably some aspect of it that will automatically allow you to register your frames.
The best way to register your drawings is of course the use of punched paper and a peg bar. Maybe this video will help in some way.
Daily Z
Re: Aligning Frames
This is very helpful.; but, partly what I am looking for. I want to draw my frames out traditionally. Then, Scan them onto my computer, and then align them using an animation program(i.e. flash)... wait maybe this video will be of assistance.
What I am really trying to say is, how can I clean my drawings so that they retain the same proportions within the animation so that it doesn't appear "jumpy".
Video games, illustration and Animation is my life. I can't see myself with out them.
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My Youtube:
My Twitter:
Take Care
Re: Aligning Frames
Well, to do that, ya gotta practice. There's no other way around it, plus getting that info across through the written word is not the most efficient way of communicating what to look for.
Flip your drawings back and forth while animating to see how your volumes and shapes are holding up. Shoot pencil tests and study them frame by frame to catch flaws and improve your work. Search for topics along these lines on YouTube. There's plenty of video tutorials available on how to properly animate and the fundamental principles you should be aware of and applying. Go this route and see what you can find, as well as practicing.
Daily Z
4 posts • Page 1 of 1


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Texas on the Potomac
Washington news with a Texas accent
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Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, visiting U.S. troops, say they want to 'serve those that serve us'
This report was written by Air Force Master Sgt. Chuck Marsh for the Armed Forces Press Service. OVERSEAS WITH THE USO TOUR — The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders have partnered with the USO for the last 34 years, and since that first performance in 1979 in Korea they haven't looked back. With two cheerleaders, Jackie Bob […] [Read More]


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Sabic Reports Big Rise in Net Profit on Increased Sales and Higher Prices
1:53 AM MDT | October 18, 2010 | Natasha Alperowicz
Saudi Basic Industries (Sabic) reported a 46% rise in third quarter net profit to SR5.33 billion ($1.42 billion) compared with the same period in 2009. The net result was 6% higher than in the second quarter of this year. The company's gross income in the third quarter was 34% higher at SR11.49 billion while income from operations was SR8.98 billion, 41% higher than in the corresponding period of 2009. Sabic attributes the improvement in overall results to increased production and sales and higher prices of most petrochemicals and plastics. The increase in the...
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Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease
- Home
- Health Information
- Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease
(Subacute Spongiform Encephalopathy; CJD)
- Sporadic CJD—most common type; usually affects people aged 50 years and older
- Familial CJD—an inherited form of the disease
- Iatrogenic CJD—contracted through medical procedures, such as injections of growth hormone, receipt of corneal transplants, or dura mater implants from affected donors
Risk Factors
- Use of cadaveric growth hormone
- Cornea transplants
- Dura mater grafts
- Healthcare workers who work with brain tissues
- Blood transfusion from someone with CJD
- Memory lapses
- Difficulty concentrating
- Impaired judgment
- Difficulty with speech
- Loss of coordination
- Blurred vision
- Behavior and mood changes
- Muscle spasms
- Seizures
- Loss of mental and physical function
|MRI Scan of the Brain
|Copyright © Nucleus Medical Media, Inc.
- Prescription pain relievers
- Anticonvulsive medication for neuromuscular symptoms
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease Foundation, Inc. http://www.cjdfoundation.org
National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke http://www.ninds.nih.gov
Health Canada http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca
Public Health Agency of Canada http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca
About CJD (Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, classic). Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. Available at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cjd/index.htm. Updated December 11, 2013. Accessed September 17, 2014.
Brown K, Mastrianni JA. The prion diseases. J Geriatr Psychiatry Neurol. 2010;23(4):277-298.
CDC's diagnostic criteria for Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD), 2010. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. Available at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cjd/diagnostic%5Fcriteria.html. Updated August 26, 2010. Accessed September 17, 2014.
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. EBSCO DynaMed website. Available at: http://www.ebscohost.com. Updated August 28, 2014. Accessed September 17, 2014.
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease fact sheet. National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke website. Available at: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/cjd/detail%5Fcjd.htm. Updated May 22, 2014. Accessed September 17, 2014.
Mastrianni JA. The genetics of prion disease. Genet Med. 2010;12(4):187-195.
Patry D, Curry B, et al. Creutzfeld-Jakob disease (CJD) after blood product transfusion from a donor with CJD. Neurology. 1998;50(6):1872-1873.
Rinne ML, McGinnis SM, et al. Clinical problem-solving. A startling decline. N Engl J Med. 2012;366(9):836-842.
Revision Information
- Reviewer: Rimas Lukas, MD
- Review Date: 08/2014 -
- Update Date: 09/17/2014 -


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Fired Up
Shawn and Nick are top scorers on the Ford High School football team--both on and off the field. When they hatch a scheme to trade their footballs for pom poms and join the school's most beautiful girls at cheer camp, the new team members actually give the girls' historically awful cheer squad a chance at success. And when Shawn falls for the head cheerleader, the boys must learn some new moves and unleash their inner spirit to prove their intentions before the all-important cheer competition finals.
Cast: Sarah Roemer, Eric Christian Olsen, Molly Sims, AnnaLynne McCord, Danneel Harris
Produced by: Matthew Gross
Directed by: Will Gluck
Written by: Freedom Jones
Running time: 1hr 30min
Opens: Feb 20, 2009 Nationwide
|Theaters for Today
Pick a day
on this day.


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Step into Razorback Stadium, Arkansas fans, and thrill under the lights and the moon to homecoming victory! This spectacular print, from the sensational southeastern football specialists at USA Sports, features the a breathtaking look at game night in Fayetteville. As 72,000 red-clad fans witness Razorback domination - SNAP! The moment is preserved for all-time, and is now available for your wall.
With crystal-clear photography and slick design, this print celebrates Arkansas football with a vibrant end zone view of the unfolding scene. Printed on high-quality gallery stock, and complete with slick white-bordered design, commemorative title, Razorback team logos, and official NCAA Products trademark, this is both a beautiful piece for the wall of home or office, and a valuable collector's item for years to come. Whether you are a die-hard College football enthusiast, or an Arkansas football fanatic thrilled by this unforgettable and historic afternoon, this is the ultimate addition to your collection!
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Hang tight!
Recipe by J.D. Tyre
"Shrimp is sauteed with peppers and sweet onion, and served over a pile of hot cheese grits. I had a variation of this at a local restaurant, added a few things, and made it mine! Garlic bread makes a great side! be sure to have Tabasco on hand to add appropriate spice."
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4 1/2 cups
1/2 cup
1 3/4 cups
hominy grits
6 ounces
processed cheese, cubed
1 tablespoon
olive oil
green bell pepper, sliced
red bell pepper, sliced
Vidalia onions, thinly sliced
1 clove
garlic, minced
1 1/2 pounds
fresh shrimp, peeled and deveined
salt and ground black pepper to taste
1 dash
hot pepper sauce
Well J.D., I'm happy to be the first to review your recipe! We're from N.J. but we're a grits lovin' family and I must tell you that my kids went HOG WILD over this dish! I'm not into processed anything, so I finely grated a good cheddar/parm cheese and it worked out great. Certainly a combination that I would never have thought of and with a good splash from the hot sauce bottle, we had a delicious meal in under thirty minutes. Thanks a heap J.D.!!!!
No flavor whatsoever! Even Tabasco wasn't able to help this dish!
55 Ratings
I cooked 3 strips of bacon and then sauteed the peppers (used 2 whole), onion and garlic in the drippings, then continued as directed. When i told my husband what I was making he said "Gross!" but changed his tune-ate 3 helpings, raving the whole time. Thanks!
This was awesome. My husband ate the whole thing in one sitting!!
I did add bacon to the onion and pepper saute, which gave a little more flavor.
I will definitly make this again!
Awesome! I used quick-cooking grits, and it still turned out great. I cooked some bacon first, then used the same pan, including the bacon grease, to cook the vegetables. What a great addition. I also added a decent amount of seafood seasoning to the shrimp before cooking with the vegetables. My boyfriend and I like to experiment with new meals, but we agree that this is going to become a regular meal we make!! Thanks for the recipe!!!!
This dish was delicious! I made it for the three men in my family and they asked me to make it a standard dish. I didn't have red pepper, so I used a whole gr. pepper. Added bacon and grated sharp cheddar and parmesian as mentioned in other reviews. Didn't have grits so I used yellow cornmeal -so it was shrimp and polenta. Thanks for the recipe!
This is a quick and easy recipe. My husband raved about it, and thought it would be a good one to serve company. We will definitely be having this again!
A great recipe. I've done a few variations on this, sometimes adding tasso with the shrimp or for a more Jamaican/spicy theme adding diced jalepeno peppers (without seeds)!
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
Shrimp over Cheese Grits
Serving Size: 1/6 of a recipe
Servings Per Recipe: 6
Amount Per Serving
** Calories: 491
** Calories from Fat: 173
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See how to make shrimp and grits the Charleston way.
Tender shrimp with sausage and peppers served over cheesy grits.


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ICBA Backs Restored Funding for Popular Loan Program
Supports LaTourette and Velazquez Bipartisan Effort for 7(a) loan program
Supports LaTourette and Velazquez Bipartisan Effort for 7(a) loan program
WASHINGTON, D.C. (June 7, 2005) - The Independent Community Bankers of America (ICBA) joined with 13 trade associations representing a cross section of the small business and lending industries today to show their support of a bipartisan effort by Rep. Steve LaTourette (R - OH) and Rep. Nydia M. Velázquez (D- NY) to restore funding for the Small Business Administration's (SBA) 7(a) loan program.
In a letter sent to Rep. Jerry Lewis, chairman of the House Committee on Appropriations, and Rep. David Obey, the committee's ranking member, the groups said that by "supporting the 7(a) program, we can ensure that small businesses throughout our local communities can continue to prosper and create jobs."
The ability of the 7(a) program, which provides 30 percent of all long-term loans, has been hindered since funding was eliminated and the costs of the program shifted onto small businesses and lenders. This has left small businesses and lenders, like community banks, paying significant upfront fees - anywhere from an additional $1,500 to $3,000 - to use the program. Many are concerned these fees will force them out of the program, making it harder for small businesses to access affordable capital.
"The 7(a) program has been a vital source of capital for the nation's budding small businesses," said Camden R. Fine, ICBA president and CEO. "By restoring the funding, this program will allow community banks to continue to serve their constituents, provide affordable financing, and help America's small towns and communities flourish and grow."
In addition to the ICBA, the groups signing the letter include: the National Small Business Association, the Credit Union National Association, the National Association of Convenient Stores, the American Hotel and Lodging Association, the National Black Chamber of Commerce, the United Motorcoach Association, the U.S. Women's Chamber of Commerce, the Aeronautical Repair Station Association (ARSA), the American Nursery and Landscape Association, the Associated Equipment Distributors, the National Procurement Council, and the National Bankers Association.
View the joint-association letter at www.icba.org/pressroom (click Letters to Capitol Hill).


text: HomeGames for Kids & FamilyTri-Words™ Tri-Words™ Rate This Item... $14.95Educational Insights • Temporarily Out of Stock • 21315QuantityHave a question? Chat Live!Add to Cart AboutGrades 1 & up. This fast paced game is easy and has everything you need for word building fun. Includes timer, special die, and 30 tricolor tiles. Great for learning centers.RecommendedMONOPOLY Property Trading Game$22.95Clue Game$14.95Candy Land®$13.95Initial Consonants Bingo$9.99Zimbbos$24.95Social Skills Board Games$32.95


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Machine suddely quit feeding. The feed roller is not turning. Can someone help troublshoot this with me. Pull the trigger and it clicks. Where should I start,
Appreciate any help.
Results 1 to 4 of 4
06-27-2014, 09:29 AM #1Junior Member
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- Jan 2014
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- 6
Help troubleshoot millermatic 185 problem please
06-27-2014, 11:11 AM #2Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
- Location
- Texas
- Posts
- 54
There are a few things you need to check.
TP1 and TP2 complete the circuit to pull in CR1 motor control relay. If CR1 (ice cube relay is closing, (that may be the click you hear) then the circuit is probably good.
If the click you hear is the gas solenoid then check the circuit.
If the relay is closing it's most likely the PC board
One thing I want to add for everyone that reads this thread. A dirty liner has ruined more PC boards in my 17 years of being a CST than anything else. As you increase the pressure on the rollers, it takes more amps to run the motor and puts more strain on the board. A $20 new liner will save a $300 or $400 repair. Just a thought.
06-30-2014, 07:08 AM #3Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
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- 6


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Rebecca J. Stahl, MA
atrial septal defect
is a hole in the wall between the two upper chambers (right and left atriums) of the heart. Open heart surgery can repair the hole, either by closing the hole with stitches or by placing a patch over it.
Copyright © Nucleus Medical Media, Inc.
If a child is born with a hole between the upper chambers of the heart, the blood can flow backward into the right side of the heart and into the lungs. This triggers the heart to work harder. Over time, this can lead to damage to blood vessels in the lungs and
congestive heart failure. This procedure is done to fix the hole.
Most children who have this surgery will have good outcomes.
Complications are rare, but no procedure is free of risk. Possible complications may include:
Before your child's procedure, talk to the doctor about ways to manage factors that may increase your child's risk of complications such as chronic disease such as diabetes or obesity.
Low birth weight or a recent infection may increase the risk of complications.
The doctor will examine your child. The doctor may order tests, like:
The doctor will tell you if your child needs to stop taking medicines.
Ask the doctor when your child should stop eating or drinking before the surgery.
General anesthesia
will be used. It will block pain and keep your child asleep through the surgery.
First, the doctor will cut through the skin and breastbone. The chest cavity will be opened. Next, the heart will be connected to a heart-lung machine. This machine will take over the functions of the heart and lungs. The doctor will stop the heart to do surgery.
The pericardial sac around the heart will be opened. The doctor may remove a small part of this sac and use it to patch the hole. A cut will be made in the right atrium. A small hole will be closed with sutures. A larger hole will be covered with a patch that is made of the sac or other material. Once the defect is repaired, the doctor will close the incision. The heart will then be restarted. Once it is working fine, the heart-lung machine will not be needed. The doctor will close the chest cavity. Sutures will be used to close the skin.
Your child will be monitored in the intensive care unit (ICU) with the help of the following devices:
2-4 hours
Pain or soreness during recovery will be managed with pain medicine.
The usual length of stay is 5-7 days. If there are complications, your child may need to stay longer.
The hospital staff may:
During your stay, the hospital staff will take steps to reduce your child's chance of infection such as:
There are also steps you can take to reduce your child's chances of infection such as:
When your child returns home, do the following:
In about six months, the heart tissue will grow over the sutures or patch.
After your child leaves the hospital, call your doctor if any of the following occurs:
Call for medical help or go to the emergency room right away if any of the following occurs in your child:
In case of an emergency, call for medical help right away.
American Heart Association
National Library of Medicine
Health Canada
Heart and Stroke Foundation
Baylor College of Medicine. Atrial septal defect. Baylor College of Medicine website. Available at:
http://www.debakeydepartmentofsurgery.org/home/content.cfm?proc_name=atrial+septum+defect+repaircontent_id=274. Updated April 2010. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Cardiothoracic Surgery. Atrial septal defect (ASD). Cardiothoracic Surgery website. Available at:
http://www.cts.usc.edu/atrialseptaldefect.html. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Children's Hospital Boston. Atrial septal defect. Children's Hospital Boston website. Available at:
http://www.childrenshospital.org/az/Site477/mainpageS477P0.html. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Cincinnati Children's Hospital. Open-heart surgery. Cincinnati Children's Hospital website. Available at:
http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/health/heart-encyclopedia/treat/surg/open.htm. Updated July 2009. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Cornell University. Taking care of your child after heart surgery. Cornell University website. Available at:
http://www-users.med.cornell.edu/~spon/picu/parents/peddcwd.htm. Updated November 2001. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Cove Point Foundation. Atrial septal defect. Cove Point Foundation website. Available at:
http://www.pted.org/?id=atrialseptal4. Updated April 2009. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Durham L, Mendelsohn A. Atrial septal defects: surgical and transcatheter management. Congenital Heart Information Network website. Available at:
http://tchin.org/resource_room/c_art_14.htm. Updated May 2003. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Kids Health. Atrial septal defect. Kids Health website. Available at:
http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/heart/asd.html#. Accessed April 21, 2010.
Last reviewed June 2013 by Michael J. Fucci, DO
Please be aware that this information is provided to supplement the care provided by your physician. It is neither intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. CALL YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER IMMEDIATELY IF YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider prior to starting any new treatment or with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
Copyright © EBSCO Publishing. All rights reserved.
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Corsets are designed to instantly reduce your waist by up to an amazing 5 inches and creating that desirable hourglass silhouette. At Mio Destino we have an exclusive corset collection from designers including Vollers and What Katie Did. Our corsets are made from the highest quality fabrics to ensure an optimal fit and a striking design. Corsets are great to wear as boudoir lingerie or on special occasions. If you're not quite sure what corset size you are consult our help page here.
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Steven Richards is relishing his new role in Australian motor racing – not pining for his V8 Supercar career – as his Carrera Cup campaign kicks off at Albert Park during this weekend's 2011 Formula 1 Qantas Australian Grand Prix.
The former Bathurst winner lost his full-time V8 ride at Ford Performance Racing to Will Davison for 2011, but will stay at FPR for the endurance races at Phillip Island and Bathurst later this year. And to keep sharp for the enduros, he has started his own Carrera Cup team – Laser Racing.
According to Richards, the distraction of preparing for Albert Park made watching last weekend's Clipsal 500 much easier.
"It's funny, I didn't know how I'd feel, but I didn't pine for ," he said.
"Having the Carrera Cup car has made the transition a lot easier, because there's been a lot of work involved to get the deal done and then get the car ready."
Richards is also excited about getting hold of some spanners, and becoming more than just a driver.
"I do enjoy the hands-on approach to racing. The last time I was this involved was back when I was racing V8 Supercars for Garry Rogers Motorsport, working my way up. But I've kept tinkering away with my little Ford Escort , and I always have a hoist in my garage!"
Porsche Carrera Cup qualifying is at 4:50pm.


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When we last saw Justin Thornton and Thea Bregazzi's work, we were previewing Preen's spring '14 collection, which was dominated by white and pastel-hued frocks, asymmetrical cuts, and plunging, spaghetti-strap necklines. But, for the pre-fall delivery, the design duo dared to get darker, pulling out sweeping fabrics in black and navy, with the occasional pops of cobalt blue, orange, and lemony yellow.
And, there's a lot to love in the latest lookbook, which is filled with flowing dresses that hit just above the ankle, full skirts with major volume, and a few structured pieces, for good measure. The textures are beautiful, with lace necklines on multiple dresses, silk coming through on the bomber jacket, and a chunky, knit turtleneck we could just melt into. Not to worry, though: Hints of Preen's standard asymmetry and killer use of prints are still present in the collection that's a bit darker than we're used to. And, topped off with the perfect cherry lip and minimal makeup, the lookbook totally masters a glam, mysterious vibe we're excited to emulate. Check it out in full, ahead.


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|Heber Valley
975 Golf Course Drive
Midway, UT 84049
|Click to view map
Wasatch Mountain- Lake Course
Midway, Utah is the site of one of the state's most popular public golf courses. Voted one of the "Best Places to Play" by Golf Digest, the spectacular Wasatch Mountain State Park boasts a 36-hole facility, complete with a comfortable, full-service clubhouse, beautiful practice green and driving range and an on-site restaurant serving breakfast, lunch and dinner daily.
Though resting on gentler terrain than the Mountain Course, Lake Course is often judged to be easier than it really is. The course has several short par-5 holes, which require accurate tee shots to avoid well-established stands of trees lining each fairway. Its season-long pastoral beauty, with tree lined fairways and eight lakes and ponds, offers just the right setting to make the Lake Course a favorite for high, low and "no" handicappers.
Call Golf Wasatch at 888-WASATCH (927-2824) for a list of participating lodging properties, or for more information about our five individual golf courses or the Heber Valley. We look forward to teeing off with you soon!
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Comments On Apr 02, 2015:Can't beat maxxis
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Comments On Jan 31, 2015:They last forever and really pull you through the mud. I had issues with woods riding on stock tires. But not with these they go anywhere.
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Comments On Jan 26, 2015:I've ran everything from a variety of ITP holeshots, to cheaper tires. Maxxis Razr 2's are by far the best tire I've ran. They are a little expensive, but you definitely get what you pay for. I ride in routine sand/muddy conditions and these tires are by far the best tire I've ever ran. Highly recommended!
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Comments On Jan 11, 2015:I've tried many tires but nothing compares to these! Excellent product and like always excellent service!
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Comments On Nov 10, 2014:These are truly great tires and preform amazing in dirt
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Comments On Sep 04, 2014:Have had these rear tires on now for 4 years and they are still going strong. Never had an issue with them. Only problem is they are fairly expensive, but I guess you get what you pay for.
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Comments On Jul 28, 2014:I purchased a set of Holeshot HD's before a week long ride in the Piute trails of Utah. The terrain there varies from hardpack roads to rocky trails. After 500 miles of abuse these tires were destroyed, all the were worn down or ripped off. The front tires didn't even hold up to the miles and miles of rocks. I was pretty upset at the thought of having to replace $500 worth of tires after having them a week. I got on the internet and started the research process. I knew that I didn't want another set of Holeshot tires so I decided to get the Razr II tires. I put 700 miles on these tires and they are really impressive. The traction is awesome and they wear like iron. The edges of the knobs are just starting to get rounded and there isn't any chunking so far. They do measure a little shorter than the Holeshots but not enough to worry about. I am getting ready for another week long to trip to the Piute and these tires are in great shape to tackle it again. I will definitely buy these tires again!
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Comments On Jun 07, 2014:i finally have grip again on my atv old tires were getting spanked these tires are great will buy again
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Comments On May 12, 2014:I have a big bore sport quad with a lot of torque and i love the acceleration and control I get out of the razr 2 over the old stock tires. There is no comparison, I went with a larger size for ground clearance and a wider for more traction reduced my gearing. Now it's a monster in the woods on sand, gravel or mud have never had a problem yet.
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Comments On Apr 19, 2014:I have owned these tires for about 4 years now. If you want a tire that hooks up, this is the one. They handle all types of terrain, with out a problem. Run smooth and handle great. 6ply bulletproof. They may cost a bit, but worth it. If you have the money to spare this is the tire you are looking for.
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This Multicolor Fort Lauderdale city bear stuffed animal travel souvenir is embroidered with it's city name, pink flamingo and a palm tree. Every Symbolz city bear is complete with a colorful ribbon around its neck and a heart shaped American flag on its foot. That is how you know that this is an original city bear travel souvenir.
Each Symbolz city bear travel souvenir measures about eight inches in height, head to toe, and seven inches wide, paw to paw.


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Lewis Hamilton admits "things would have been different" this season had Mercedes mastered the Pirelli tyres...
Lewis Hamilton admits "things would have been different" this season had Mercedes mastered the Pirelli tyres.
With four races remaining, Sebastian Vettel is just a fifth place away from wrapping up his fourth successive Drivers' title while those behind him scrap over second.
Mathematically Hamilton could yet achieve the runner-up slot as he trails Fernando Alonso by 46 points with 100 still to play for.
However, the Brit concedes that second in the Constructors' Championship is a more realistic goal as Mercedes are just 10 points behind Ferrari.
"The experience (with Mercedes) has been fantastic. It has been enjoyable," he of his new team in an interview with Times of India. "It was a huge step at the end of last year.
"It has given me an opportunity to put my skill and knowledge I gained in the last six with a new team.
"Our goal is finish second in the Constructors' Championship and we are working very hard on it."
The 2008 World Champion, though, has been left to lament what could have been had Mercedes got the better of their Pirelli tyres rather than the other way around.
"For us it is just the tyres. If we didn't had issues with the tyres then things would have been different because the car is great on both heavy fuel and light fuel.
"When you have to do 10, 15 or 20 laps and you have 100 per cent of tyre then you have to spend it correctly. And you don't know how much to use and for what time. That's the biggest trick.
"Other cars have a little more down force to look after the rear tyre little bit better so we have to improve the rear end of the car to save the tyre."
The 28-year-old also weighed in on early comments he made about Vettel's domination being boring, saying he believes that the fans want to see close racing.
"I don't want to get into the politics anymore. I grew up watching Michael Schumacher era. He was a fabulous driver. Vettel also has been doing very well.
"People want to see good contest, close races that's what I look to do. All I want to do is race. I just love it. I have grown up doing that and want to continue doing it every time step on to the track."


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Red Bull claimed a 1-2 win in Malaysia, but the celebrations could hardly have been more muted after the race...
Red Bull claimed a 1-2 win in Malaysia, but the celebrations could hardly have been more muted after the race.
Sebastian Vettel, who started on pole position, won the race win with his team-mate Mark Webber being "forced to settle" for second place.
While Vettel will no doubt be happy to claim his first victory of the season and take the lead in the Championship, the post-race tension on the podium was clear for all to see as Webber felt he was robbed of the win.
The Australian led the race and was told to turn down his engine with the team assuring him he would get the win while Vettel in turn was ordered not to attack.
However, the German didn't listen to any orders and decided to go after Webber. The duo went side-by-side on the start-finish line with Vettel coming out on top.
Webber was not very happy after the race saying "Seb made his own decisions and will have protection as usual".
Team principal Christian Horner admits it didn't make for comfortable viewing on the side of the track.
"They took it into their own hands, which was uncomfortable for us - we gave them instructions to hold station but Sebastian took it into his own hands to win the race - he wanted to win," he told Sky Sports.
"They've raced each other hard before - they're very good drivers. There are points at stake and they both want to win. For the team it's hugely uncomfortable.
"It's difficult when you have two competitive drivers like ours. It's difficult to watch because you could end up giving up 43 points. You have to remember there's two elements to F1 - there's a Drivers' Championship and a Constructors' Championship."


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Starke County-Master Trooper Mike Hemphill's traffic stop turned into a chase when a driver took off after being stopped for a traffic violation.
Early this afternoon, at approximately 12:45 p.m., Trooper Hemphill was east on U.S. 35 when he saw a 1995 Mitsubishi station wagon going west on U.S. 30 in Starke County at a high rate of speed. He was able to get the Mitsubishi on radar at 90 M.P.H. in a well posted 60 M.P.H. zone.
When he pulled the vehicle over the driver, later identified as Michael J. Ostrowski, 28 of Loves Park, Illinois, stated he had no driver's license or identification on him. He was able to produce a registration but stated he was not the owner of the vehicle but identifying information that was written on the back of it was him. During this exchange Hemphill noticed Ostrowski had a wallet lying in his lap. As Hemphill was walking back to his police car he noticed Ostrowski throw something out the passenger window. When he retrieved the article Ostrowski denied throwing it out. Hemphill then asked to see his wallet and Ostrowski gave it to him. It was then that Hemphill found an Illinois identification card with Ostrowski name and picture on it. Even with this ID card in hand Ostrowski still denied it was him. Ostrowski then fled in his Mitsubishi.
A LaPorte County Deputy threw out stop sticks about a mile east of US 421 which Ostrowski evaded. As Ostrowski entered Porter County stop sticks were thrown out again near 450 E; to evade them Ostrowski went through the median and went westbound in the eastbound lanes of U.S. 30 for approximately a mile before crossing back onto west bound U.S. 30. At this time Porter County Sheriff Deputies and Valparaiso Police had shut down traffic in this area. As the Mitsubishi approached State Road 49 it did hit stop sticks but continued west on U.S. 30.
Hemphill decided to stop his pursuit of the Mitsubishi at this time due to the amount of fully marked police cars that had joined the chase (Hemphill is in an unmarked police car) and traffic.
Porter County Sheriff Deputies were able to keep sight of Ostrowski when his Mitsubishi station wagon finally broke down and arrested him at U.S. 30 and State Road 51 in Lake County.
Ostrowski was transported and incarcerated at Porter County Jail where Porter County Sheriff Department has charged him with Possession of Paraphernalia and Resisting Law Enforcement.
Indiana State Police charges in Starke, LaPorte and Lake Counties are pending.
Agencies assisting: LaPorte County Sheriff Department, Porter County Sheriff Department, Valparaiso Police Department and Indiana State Police Detective Jennifer Richmond
All criminal defendants are to be presumed innocent until, and unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.