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Which Mirrorless?
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Topic: Which Mirrorless? (Read 4973 times)
Sr. Member
Posts: 473
Which Mirrorless?
March 06, 2013, 03:33:33 PM »
I have lumix LX3, but want something that might focus faster and has a bit more reach. I've seen some good deals on the Panasonic GX1. How is the compact 14-42 lens that comes with this? I could see someday getting a 20 1.7 prime, but don't want to heavily invest in lenses. Another option would be to go with a Sony NEX (one of the cheaper ones) that I could use with my old nikon primes. Again is it even worth considering a mirrorless system if you plan on using a kit zoom. Or should I just look at another compact that shoots raw - eg Nikon P7700?
Sr. Member
Posts: 778
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #1 on:
March 06, 2013, 03:55:09 PM »
I have and use a GX1. With the 20mm f1.7 it is a wonderful walk around camera. Very fast to focus. Great for street.
I also have an early version of the 14-42 compact and it has it's issues. Very well documented on most review sights.
You will save yourself a lot of grief by staying with 20mm prime.
Sr. Member
Posts: 286
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #2 on:
March 06, 2013, 04:12:42 PM »
Quote from: HSakols on March 06, 2013, 03:33:33 PM
Another option would be to go with a Sony NEX (one of the cheaper ones) that I could use with my old nikon primes.
You do know that you can use your Nikon primes with a GX1? It's x2 crop of course, the Nex being x1.5, but I quite happily use legacy lenses on my G1.
Ken Bennett
Sr. Member
Posts: 1575
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #3 on:
March 06, 2013, 05:27:43 PM »
There are some nice deals on the GX1 and it's a fine camera, but for me it requires the optional EVF for proper use. That makes it less of a bargain IMHO. The G5 is available for under $500 at Amazon, and often for ~$400 in used/like new condition from Amazon Warehouse Deals. We just bought one of these to upgrade my wife's original G1.
The G5 has a terrific built in EVF, a rotating LCD screen, good image quality up to ISO 3200, and it handles well for such a small camera. The 14-42 lens is mediocre in my experience -- the 20mm/1.7 is outstanding, as is the Olympus 45/1.8. We also have the Panasonic 12-35/2.8, but at $1200 that gets way beyond "bargain" in my mind. But wow, it's a nice lens.
For me, the beauty of m4/3 is in the compact prime lenses.
(EDIT: Aaaack, changed first line to read "G
Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:52:29 AM by k bennett
Equipment: a camera and some lenses. Images:
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Paulo Bizarro
Sr. Member
Posts: 2322
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #4 on:
March 07, 2013, 04:13:52 AM »
These days, if all you are looking for is a simple set up, I do not see the advantage of micro 4/3. You can get more sensor quality in small set ups as well, with the current crop of APSC compact cameras: Fuji X, Canon EOS M, the new Nikon A, Sigma DP series...
It really depends on what you want to do, and how critical you want your image quality to be (the part that depends on the equipment, the rest is up to you, of course). I have used micro 4/3 in the past (including the wonderful GF1 plus 20mm lens), but something like the EOS M plus 22mm lens is really not that much larger, and the sensor quality and ease of use is for me much better.
Sr. Member
Posts: 286
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #5 on:
March 07, 2013, 07:53:27 AM »
Perhaps the biggest problems with the Eos M system are the number of compact lenses available and the reportedly poor focus performance. Either of those factors could be killers as MFT and other APS-C CSC systems have cutting edge sensors, a much better choice of compact lenses, and much better camera performance.
Personally, as a 5D and older MFT model owner I'm leaning more towards the Nex system as the lens choice while not being the best isn't bad and the camera body has ISO 100 which some others don't have and that matters to me as I like to use fast primes even in good light. Without ISO 100 the chance of shooting with wide apertures in good light without ND's reduces, especially as these cameras are normally limited to a maximum shutter speed of 1/4000 sec. Personally I don't like messing on with ND's when shooting casually.
There's always the often overlooked Samsung APS-C system to consider.
Paulo Bizarro
Sr. Member
Posts: 2322
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #6 on:
March 08, 2013, 12:27:45 AM »
Quote from: scooby70 on March 07, 2013, 07:53:27 AM
Perhaps the biggest problems with the Eos M system are the number of compact lenses available and the reportedly poor focus performance. Either of those factors could be killers as MFT and other APS-C CSC systems have cutting edge sensors, a much better choice of compact lenses, and much better camera performance.
I have no doubts that more lenses will be released, together with a more "advanced" camera, Canon themselves have said so. Right now, the two native lenses are very high quality: the 18-55 zoom is very good and metal built, and the 22mm f/2 prime lens is terrific. And of course, you can mount all the EF and EFS lenses. As for the poor focus performance, I find it is not poor at all; performance is actually very good, can be slower than some cameras at times, but it is very accurate.
And in the last couple of months the price of the kits has gone down some, making it an attractive proposition.
Sr. Member
Posts: 473
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #7 on:
March 08, 2013, 10:30:13 AM »
The NEX 6 sure looks good but is close to $900. I also see that there is a NEX 3N that will soon be available for under $500. So what would be the big difference other than auto focus speed. I could see backpacking with this set-up and possibly using my old Nikon 70-210 AFD as my telephoto.
Sr. Member
Posts: 713
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #8 on:
March 08, 2013, 02:27:41 PM »
There will always be differences of opinion amongst users of the various marques - which is fair enough and perfectly understandable.
But I think I am correct in saying that the OM-D is the only mirror-less M4/3 camera that has been widely used by professionals (e,g Damian McGillicuddy who was using it throughout Image on Focussing this week) as a serious alternative to a dSLR. I think that must say something.
"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol."
Alternatively, "Life begins at the far end of your comfort zone."
Sr. Member
Posts: 1387
Hiker Photographer
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #9 on:
March 08, 2013, 03:24:29 PM »
The broad lens selection is one of the primary strengths of MFT. If you aren't interested in using a variety of different lenses, then MFT isn't for you, so I would go with a fixed lens APS-C cam from Sony or Fuji. They will be smaller and have comparable (and sometimes better) quality.
Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 04:36:00 PM by fike
Fike, Trailpixie, or Marc Shaffer
I carry an M43 ILC, a couple of good lenses, and a tripod.
Sr. Member
Posts: 8786
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #10 on:
March 08, 2013, 04:04:55 PM »
Sony doesn't have a fixed lens APS-C. They have the RX 100 which is 1" and the RX 1 at full frame. There is a convenient spot betwee 1 and 100, that could be APS-C.
The RX-100 is quite nice. My sample has soft corners in the long end, short focal lengths are good.
Best regards
Erik Kaffehr
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Sr. Member
Posts: 1387
Hiker Photographer
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #11 on:
March 08, 2013, 04:47:38 PM »
Quote from: ErikKaffehr on March 08, 2013, 04:04:55 PM
Sony doesn't have a fixed lens APS-C. They have the RX 100 which is 1" and the RX 1 at full frame. There is a convenient spot betwee 1 and 100, that could be APS-C.
The RX-100 is quite nice. My sample has soft corners in the long end, short focal lengths are good.
Best regards
Yes, I see. I thought the RX100 was APS-C. It isn't, of course. It still remains a good pocketable alternative to a larger interchangeable lens camera. On the Sony side, a NEX3 of some sort would also be a good choice. ...and finally don't get me started on that RX1. That worthless piece of awesomeness is really tormenting me. Talk about a one-hit wonder!!! I just can't quite get out of my head the amazing full frame quality in that small and durable package. I can't believe I am saying this, but...if it were $1,800 instead of $2,800 I might actually buy it.
Back to the OP question, if you don't want to swap lenses, don't pay for an interchangeable system. The market is finally providing us good choices in compacts that use a larger sensor. The Fuji X10 sensor is smaller than the RX100, but is similarly full featured and high quality. You might also look at the smaller Olympus Pens like the E-PL5 with an upgraded zoom (I know I told you not to look at MFT, but I still like it). The choices are really good in this area. Enjoy the shopping.
Fike, Trailpixie, or Marc Shaffer
I carry an M43 ILC, a couple of good lenses, and a tripod.
Dan Wells
Sr. Member
Posts: 397
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #12 on:
March 09, 2013, 11:19:35 PM »
While expensive, the Fuji system is well worth considering due to phenomenal lenses. The NEX system is handicapped (as, I believe, is EOS-M, but I've never used that) by a lack of decent glass (Sony has one or two good primes, led by the Zeiss), Micro 4/3 has a lot of lousy lenses, but a selection of very nice ones mixed in (the good ones aren't cheap, and most of them aren't tiny either). All the Fujinon lenses are excellent, and they're a well chosen range too (well, once they get the 55-200 out). The Fujinons aren't cheap, either, but they're actually less expensive than top-grade Micro 4/3 lenses or the Sony Zeiss. The disadvantage is that you don't have the option of a cheaper lens for a little-used focal length. It's a great $600+ lens or nothing...
Full Member
Posts: 151
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #13 on:
March 10, 2013, 12:50:03 AM »
With the risk of sounding too fanboyish (I seriously am not NEX6 is my first Sony camera, ever), I think it just foolish to choose anything but Sony NEX for a mirrorless at this point. Let's look at what we have:
1. You have Sigma, Tamron, Kenko, and Samyang already producing lenses for them, with Cosina and Zeiss already on board for future releases
2. You have very interesting and novel products like SpeedBooster and Fotodiox RhinoCam
3. Shortest flange focal distance of any mirror less system allowing adapting of pretty much any lens in the world, including friggin lenses for micro-4/3.
4. All but a guarantee that a FF sensor is coming to the same mount (exhibit A: VG900)
5. One of the best sensor systems out there
Full Member
Posts: 222
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #14 on:
March 10, 2013, 04:32:28 AM »
If you consider Olympus OM-D E-M5 you might want to read the attached article.
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Rule of Thirds Photography
Dan Wells
Sr. Member
Posts: 397
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #15 on:
March 12, 2013, 01:33:54 AM »
Two things to be careful with with the Sony system - one is the lenses. Tamron, Kenko and Samyang are not lensmakers that inspire confidence (not that they haven't made a good lens from time to time), Sigma is hit or miss (their best are excellent, their worst dreadful), and Sony themselves have concentrated on cheap lenses for NEX - their G lenses for the Alphas (and broadcast/cinema lenses) show that they are fully capable of making excellent lenses, but the NEX lens line is mostly aimed at low prices or very wide zoom ranges, rather than top quality. The new Zeiss lenses will almost certainly be excellent, but they will be released simultaneously for NEX and Fuji mounts, so they are a wash between those two systems.
The second Sony caution is the controls - some people love them, others hate them...
I agree that the FF NEX will be VERY interesting to watch - if the RX1 lens is any indication, they can collaborate with Zeiss on a truly superb mirrorless lens, and they make the best FF sensors around! I could easily see them coming out with a line of Sony G and Zeiss branded FF lenses (primes and short-range zooms) and a camera with similar controls to the RX1 that fit right in between Fuji and Leica, and gave both of them fits. I could also see them screwing either of those aspects up - either a camera that was highly dependent on a touchscreen, or poor quality lenses. High resolution FF lenses are really tricky - the D800 is at its best only with Zeiss lenses and a few of Nikon's top primes (it's merely good, rather than great, with anything less than a superb lens).
Sr. Member
Posts: 5484
Which Mirrorless? lens size and kit size effect format size choice
Reply #16 on:
March 12, 2013, 09:50:34 AM »
Quote from: Paulo Bizarro on March 07, 2013, 04:13:52 AM
... if all you are looking for is a simple set up, I do not see the advantage of micro 4/3 ... something like the EOS M plus 22mm lens is really not that much larger, and the sensor quality and ease of use is for me much better.
If you are truly curious about the advantage of a smaller format system like m43 for a simple interchangeable lens system setup, consider that most people buying such a system, apparently including the OP, do not want to restrict themselves to a single wide angle prime lens like that Canon 22mm. A far more common "simple setup" starts with a standard zoom like the m4/3 14-42 mentioned by the OP or the 18-55 for the EOS M, with the next most common lens being a telephoto zoom. Then the longer focal lengths needed with a larger format mean that size can quickly becomes a major factor in kit size, and the size advantage of a smaller format becomes significant, and the m4/3 system can offer a more compact kit than any of the current larger format offerings.
By the way, many of the IQ advantages of a larger format rely on comparisons at equally high ISO speed, requiring equal minimum f-stops to get equal shutter speeds, and thus lenses with entrance pupil size that scales with linear format size, so lenses tend to grow in diameter as well as length, and the mass of glass required grows roughly as the cube of linear format size.
I will leave aside "ease of use" comparisons when it comes to things like AF performance or options to use a ("peep-hole") EVF or a tiltable rear-screen or a built-in flash, because you were only commenting on ease of use for yourself, not in general.
P. S. With the lenses now announced or available for the Fujifilm X system, the original good selection of primes being joined by a few well chosen zoom lenses (18-44/2.8-4, 55-200/3.5-4.8, 10-24/4) that system has the potential to be my favorite of the larger format non-SLR systems. I like the idea of pushing the zooms up in speed a bit beyond f/5.6, to establish a clearer size/performance distinction from m4/3. And like m4/3, it has a macro lens, which is a big draw for me.
Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 09:58:04 AM by BJL
Sr. Member
Posts: 473
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #17 on:
March 12, 2013, 10:01:47 AM »
I'm leaning toward a Olympus EPL5 with the standard zoom. Also I'm intrigued by the new art primes that Sigma is coming out with that are actually affordable. Keep in mind for my serious landscape stuff, I will use my nikon d800.
Full Member
Posts: 224
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #18 on:
March 14, 2013, 12:35:20 AM »
I've used the 19mm f/2.8 from Sigma on my OM-D and found it to be an excellent and inexpensive lens. It was the first one I bought after the kit zoom. Since the EPL5 uses the same sensor as the EM5, I am going to guess you would get equivalently good performance with it.
In case it helps, here are links to some photos I posted using the Sigma lens on the m4/3 body when I first got it. One thing that I wasn't expecting was the good close-up performance (even though it's not really a macro lens).
Although I saved up and got the Summilux 25mm f/1.4 instead of the Sigma 30mm, I was definitely considering it after such a good experience with my first Sigma lens.
One thing I found really useful was using the Oly 12-50 kit zoom for a couple months, then sorting through my favorite photos and figuring out what focal lengths I was using the most. In my case, I initially tended to use the extremes (24mm and 100mm FF equivalent) the most since I was getting a lot of either portraits or group people pictures with family and friends. Later, when I started going for street shots, I starting using the 20-30 range more (40-50mm equivalent).
If you already have a D800, you are all set for lanscapes and nature photos. However, you may find yourself liking putting the lightweight 75-300 zoom in your bag for wildlife, and stitching together panoramas with relatively tiny primes like the 45mm f/1.8 or 60mm f/2.8 in your pocket.
Keep in mind that you're probably going to stick to lower ISO than with the d800, and won't have as much extra resolution for cropping in post. I love the Oly output at 200-400 ISO, and can work with it in color up to around 800 before the noise starts to be a problem (double that for monochrome).
One last thing. Both the 12-50 zoom and the 60mm 2.8 macro have the same level of weathersealing as the magnesium alloy body on the OMD. If I remember correctly, the EPL5 isn't drip and dust proof like the higher emd model.
Hope this helps. There are a lot of good choices out there right now, and more coming. So, if you're not sure exactly what you need, wait a bit, and you're almost sure to find something you want being developed by the photo industry.
Have fun!
Sr. Member
Posts: 286
Re: Which Mirrorless?
Reply #19 on:
March 14, 2013, 10:59:58 AM »
Quote from: PhotoEcosse on March 08, 2013, 02:27:41 PM
But I think I am correct in saying that the OM-D is the only mirror-less M4/3 camera that has been widely used by professionals (e,g Damian McGillicuddy who was using it throughout Image on Focussing this week) as a serious alternative to a dSLR. I think that must say something.
The OMD was the first MFT camera to use a leading edge sensor, a sensor that arguably outperforms some of the APS-C alternatives. As more cameras with similar or better chips come along such as the GH3 I'm sure that more pro's will consider using them.
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subset: commoncrawl


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- Harnsowl Ko
- New York, NY
- United States
Student - B.E - Chemical Engineering, Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art
This conversation is closed.
Where does our identity as being "human" come from?
This week in my Bioelectricity class we discussed electrical stimulation. Research on electrical stimulation often focuses on the manipulation the electrical fields and currents. An example of this manipulation can be seen in Bill Doyle's TED talk, which deals with orienting cancer cells along an electric field in order to disrupt their replication. Electrical stimulation can also be used in devices such as pacemakers or neuroprosthetics for injury recovery. As technology begins to expand, the concept of prosthetics replacing major body parts is not far off. Thus, the question becomes does a person lose their given identity because they are not 100% "human"? But before you answer, keep in mind that the bacteria in your gut outnumber the number of cells in your entire body by a factor of 10!
Tim Petersen
Mar 3 2012: I think; if you live in a "developed nation", or "civilized nation" our perception of the "human-being" or "being human" is an un-natural perception instilled by the many institutions which we depend on for our understanding of the human. Organized religion and institutionalized academics are intellectual learning centers composed and edited by other humans who wish to teach you who you are. In reality they are telling you who they want you to be. Each person owes to themselves a personal journey to understand who they are "being". The aforementioned institutes practice what might be termed as homeomorphic paradigms of the human comprehension, creating an un-natural reality that obscures our perception of the human experience. By the time we leave school and/or church our understanding of our identities are so misconstrued we may never find our way home. And, I think imperialistic conquests expressed in war is evidence of this plight amongst us humans that know no other way of life than being human, and ignorant of becoming human-beings. There is a worthy juxtaposition to decipher here.
- +4
As far as the manipulations of the electrical and electro-magnetic fields in our bodies is concerned, I think they are natural to our physical self before being introduced by the dr's of science so I don't see them as adding or subtracting anything from the physical. I am certainly most concerned about the intellectual, emotional, and spiritual manipulations of our lives by these representatives of the learning instittutions in our "civilized nations", because in that context we have forgotten what it is to be human. There is a very real difference between the "human-being" and "being human".
Our identity crises originated long before your concerns of medical research and practice with a much more profound detriment to our existence and survivability. Medical research is just another symptom of our loss of understanding. We live in fear, because we fail to know "us".
Mar 4 2012: I think you summed it up very well in the line 'There is a very real difference between the "human-being" and "being human".' Very well put.
Tim Petersen
Mar 6 2012: Thanks Anupriy, I try to be the human who exists first as the being who is also human. I think there was no mistake in connecting the words human and being. When I recognise myself first as the being who is also human, I am on the same plane, or level of enlightenment as the other beings in the universe. I know it sounds crazy, I was raised by humans who taught me that we are superior, more intelligent and are the appointed stewards of the earth. This teaching instilled a true, "false" sense of pride in this young man growing up on the farm, I had been ordained by creation to do with the animals and earth as I thought was proper to benifit us humans. I have been confused ever since those early days and I have found it to be very difficult to relinquish my position of authority over the other beings of this earth. I think it also allowed to to believe, for my own benifit that even other humans that were not like me must fall under my protection of knowing what is best for them, as well. The longer I have obeyed the doubts in myself and the questions of our superiority I have had to admit, there are many other beings in this universe, plant, animal, reptile, insect and even mineral and metals, too, I guess. The more i have tried to know them all, the stronger the realisation has made itself evident in my life, the humans have been the most greedy, selfish ones of all, even allowing their fear of tomorrow and all it's obligations to convince them that their behavior is acceptable and expected when we subjugate and measure every other being from the standards of the human comprehension. How arrogant! From a species who exists most like a virus on this planet, always needing more and more, destroying what we consume today for all generations to come, and we rape, murder, and destroy our own species. Are we the superior, the most intelligent?, should we think of ourselves as the noble stewards? I will not lie about it. uni-verse = one-song. Thanks Anupriy.Mar 6 2012: I very much enjoyed reading your comment, especially the distinction between a perception of "being human" and "human being." There clearly is a distinction between the two. To me being a human being is simply the state of being a mammalian creature, while being human is the state of being involved within the bounds of society. There is a distinction between the two, but like you said, the two are related.Mar 4 2012: Our identity is not something perfectly identical with itself.
- +1
Almost nothing within us is permanent. Each of us is a story whose unity is perceived by us because of the importance of the plot to each of the moments of spirit we are within the plot. It is our love for the other moments of spirit within the story that binds the story into one story.
But to add another layer of complexity, each story is composed of stories, and each story is part of a larger story. Our identity is not something discrete. We are all connected, yet there is difference everywhere that negates perfect identity.
But, ultimately it is our spirits' love of spirit that holds the stories together. So long as the mechanisms we put in our bodies do not destroy our spirits' love of spirit, those mechanisms do not destroy our identity.
I do have a fear that at some point in our future, if we are not careful, the mechanisms we put in ourselves to improve ourselves may actually affect out nervous systems to such a degree that we will cease to be truly conscious spirit, much less spirit that loves spirit. If we did that, we would destroy our most precious identity.
Howard Yee
Mar 6 2012: I've interpreted the question simply as "what defines a singular human consciousness?". If we take transplants, limb replacement, etc to the nth degree, we arrive at a completely believable situation where you have your consciousness backed up to "the cloud". Would that copy be a unique being? Would you own the right to that copy? What would happen to yours (and his) individuality?
- +1
I'm reminded of a book: "The Golden Age" by John C. Wright. In this universe, people live their lives through robotic copies of themselves (much like the movie Surrogates). However, their consciousness is copied onto the robot instead of having them control the robot through the original consciousness. However, only one consciousness is active at any one time, thus for all intents and purposes, there remains a single entity. In the story, the main character's surrogate was killed (activating the backup consciousness), yet somehow the dead consciousness survived, thus questioning who was the real/original/singular person.
Jeremy Poff
Mar 5 2012: Being human, merely differentiates us from machines, animals, plants, aliens, or God for that matter. We are a race that belongs to the genus Homo.
- +1
Although evolution is occurring all the time, we are less likely to be shocked by what we evolve into than by what we do to change our own lives.
By nature humans are selfish, and at an even deeper level there is the selfish gene theory. We will always be striving to improve our lifestyles. Recently we have realised that our lifestyles may change drastically if we pollute the earth, our habitat, yet at the same time we buy cheaper goods that we dispose of in record time. The increasing landfill requirements must be mind boggling.
Whether we destroy our planet or solve the problems of increasing population we will still be human. Some actions are considered sub-human and there are many misfits in the world, yet they are all termed human.
Obviously a unit with 0% human content would not be human. I believe that a prosthetic body with a human brain would be human (albeit with incredible self-image issues to overcome), but a prosthetic brain in a human body would not be a human.
Humans have the "capacity" for feelings. Not all of them display feelings, or display all feelings, but they have that capacity. It translates into emotions, rational and non-rational thoughts and actions and achievement against the odds. It also allows us to generate ideas from mere thought, to nurture them with observation, and possibly to disseminate them with actions or by communication.
Solving medical issues does not make us less human. It is the moral issues that will determine where we go as a race. Questions like; Should children be allowed to be born to two dead parents, do we pull out all stops to save the life of a criminal, are animal parts permissible to save human lives, can we accept anything a human can conceive of as "human" and allowable, should we engineer the genes of new lives? These sorts of questions.
Mar 6 2012: Hello Jeremy,
I enjoyed reading your comment; it's definitely thought provoking. I especially agree that as far as prosthetics go, it matters which body part or organ is replaced. There is definitely something special about the brain. The brain is an incredibly complex structure; I doubt scientists will ever be able to replicate it exactly in the laboratory. That is, a brain grown in a lab will never exactly match the human brain. What does it even mean for a lab-grown brain to "match" the human brain? Everyone sees the world differently and has different feelings and perceptions. And, if everyone's brain is different, how can a "standardized" brain be cultivated in the laboratory? Hence, I do agree that a being with a lab-grown brain cannot necessarily be considered human. In contrast, I don't think that replacing any body part other than the brain by a lab-grown prosthetic makes the recipient of the transplant any less "human." Perhaps, this has to do with the fact that body parts other than the brain are not as radically different from one person to the next.Mar 4 2012: A very interesting and a complex question - one that cannot be answered with simplicity perhaps. But scientifically, it could be our sense of cognition, biological similarities and potential of evolving behaviour. Anthropologically, it could be the desire to satisfy not just our physiological needs but to develop our emotional and intellectual self too using culture as a tool. However, the irony in this is that, we yet need to segregate ourselves not just other species, but our own using culture, religion or nation. In doing so over time, we automatically forget that it is not nature that creates this distinction but us (i.e. it does not didactically tell us we are different from apes, we do that). Since it is us, the lines never seem to be very clear as they are done within a context of place and time.
Would like to leave with something I had written a while back -
Am I just a fusion of different chemicals,
formed miraculously by some divine intervention?
Am I just a biological species,
happening to be composed of cells and tissues?
Am I just an individual,
who loves socializing, traveling and sketching?
Am I just a Mumbai-ite,
with a happy family and great friends around the place?
Am I just an Indian,
living in a metropolitan city?
Am I just a teenager,
vainly trying to figure out life and relationships?
Am I just a human being,
doing my time on this planet seeing if I make a difference?
Am I just a carbon speck,
in this infinite universe soup somewhere in the span of my existence?
Or Am I just...Anupriy?
We may be everything, but is it right for us to think within a context to a degree that we forget the rest.
Perhaps that is why there is never a clear answer about the origin of our identity.Mar 1 2012: The human being identifies with the sensory input an the information it contains.
The information about family, locality and social group builds up to a personal profile that is conceived of as me.
Andrew Tam
Mar 1 2012: Hey Frans,
- +1
I agree with the definition you have laid out. However, I would add onto it that our reactions and responses to this information also shape our identity. To take a step even further back, I'd like to relate this to Adriann's comment above. Our reactions and responses are results of the human mind and its complexity.
For a class on the human mind that I was enrolled in last semester, I read an article titled "Minds, Brains and Programs," by John Searle. In it, he discusses that it is really the mere presence of our brains that makes us human. In what other species/technology is there something so sophisticated as our own brain? Here's another question that we struggled with in the class: if we could replicate the brain exactly, and put it inside a robot, it would theoretically think, feel, move, and do everything exactly as we do. Given these circumstances, do you think we could consider the robot as having a human identity?
Mar 2 2012: I don't think our brain is much special compared to that of any animal. It can reflect on the world, delay and choose any action by a special use of memory. The brain can't be seen apart from the body because most of the capacity it has is to control and drive that body. Robots don't feel, not with nor without a brain.Mar 6 2012: Hi Andrew,
No I don't think we could consider the robot to be human, but for different reasons than ariel's. I don't think our bodies or biological development are as important as our consciousness. To be human, we must have a sense of self. We must be aware of our existence and aware of the idea of communication. Since I believe our bodies are secondary to consciousness, I do not think things like neuroprosthetics or probiotics make us any less human.
Sophie Rand
Mar 2 2012: But what if you weren't able to communicate those characteristics? What if you had all the information of your family, yourself and your life, and your conscious brain was working, but you had an injury that meant you couldn't speak, or even indicate that you still are the same person?
- +1
Mar 3 2012: What if? You would be imprisoned within your own body and other people will take you for what they see.Mar 6 2012: If we had a scenario like Sophie described above and the technology was available to move the paralyzed person's brain into a complete robot body, I would say indeed that the equipment we saw a second ago as just an assemblage of parts, is now a human being. Consciousness is intimately tied into what we consider human. And truly, there is no way that we know at present to quantify it. I saw a video a couple of weeks ago (a BBC documentary on consciousness called The Secret You) which builds-up gradually, from 'yeah, I knew this!' to much more relevant questions that bridge science and philosophy.
One of the research experiments shown in the video actually does show us that we can just as easily assume the body we are in as ours, as we can for another complete stranger's body. Literally, the person's consciousness jumped across space. Our brain is truly amazing but I don't think that we can solely be defined by the physical connections in our brain. That is only the beginning.
Debra Smith
Feb 29 2012: This is a timely topic for me as i am dealing with an unexpected set of side effects after a major back surgery. My biggest seriously perceived deficit (often reflected upon) is first my inability to use my computer with ease, my inability to read proficiently and finally my struggles to walk upright without assistance. So which was ME? I think it really was those mental activities that filled my life with joy. Somehow "my" wheelchair or "my" walker are filling my need but the visual impairment is deeply and horribly resented. So in answer, I think "I" has been my brain even though i have had a solid body which I counted on without
- +1
Feb 29 2012: Welcome back Debra. Hope you recover quickly.Mar 1 2012: Hi Debra,
I hope you a speedy recovery. With regard to your comment, I think that it brings up a very interesting point. People are quick to bring up the mind in discussing human identity, but your comment raised the following question for me: what happens if our bodies are not quite the fine machine we, as you say, count on without reflection?
Mar 1 2012: Good question Ko,
On the overall i tend to think that who we are physically plays a great deal in shaping us by the experiences that we get through the physicall self. however if you step back and discriminate urself from your body see the experience for what it is, look over and beyond it, ull traverse limits of everyday existense.
Live strong Debra, much Love !
Debra Smith
Mar 2 2012: Hi!
- +1
Interesting question which I am not suited to answer. My body has always been a stalwart and ready actor in any activity I chose but now that I must think not just twice but sometimes 15 times before it cooperates, I find that I truly identify most closely with the products of my brain. I hope this is helpful as it is a spontaneous and faithful report of my own curious and very fascinating experience.
**Big thanks, kisses and hugs for those beautifl good wishes.
Mar 2 2012: Debra
I think that is because in spite of illness the brain still functions and wants to have self-identity. Good to see you back on TED.Mar 1 2012: Very nice to see you again, Debra.
Hope you will recover as fast as possible.
Sending you love.
Helen Hupe
Mar 2 2012: Much love from me to you. Surprising things happen to us. I will never forget 4/29/2011 and the love and support you gave me. I miss you on TED. My wish for you is that your brain and body recover quickly and wholly You are on my mind and in my heart. HelenMar 7 2012: One would have to look further at the nature of identity, and possibly human consciousness itself, to answer this question.
- +1
But to remain concise, identity is ideally dynamic and fluid within a living culture - when one's identity becomes rigid and fixed then perhaps we would say that the culture is no longer allowed to grow and express itself in the way that is a best fit to its environment (internally and externally).
Gender Identity is a prime example - what would you describe as masculine and feminine and are these potentially different from male and female?
But to remain on the topic of human identity - we must choose (in my opinion) how we will express our humanity, through social discourses, through culture, through our ability to generate knowledge and technology even.
Finally though, the point was raised that more bacterial cells inhabit a human body than human cells, which is fascinating - but unless these bacteria had some sort of social consciousness or identity, I would not identify myself as a bacteria colony. Nor would I call myself a machine simply because I use one.
Question answered?Mar 7 2012: Hello Harnsowl, it is good to meet you . Continuing on this path of understanding who I am, and when I am, I found in myself two identities, sharing alternate worlds. While living and being human I found myself in an illusion of my existence. The human is living in the past where its subconscience has stored memory and reacts to events of today trying to make the most of tomorrow while risking the least, always attempting to give advantage to this human it is creating for tomorrow, much of the time having little regard for the safety or well being of others which brings the human side of me living in a day that is not here expecting rewards for the bahavior of the day before. This is truly a life of illusion. I hope I am saying this as clear as it seems to have revealed itself to my searching. As I struggle to become the human-being, I am still the human but with my priority of being. It is the essence of the moment. It is being, and in a metaphysical interpretation it is only then that I hold any strength of power to change, or to appreciate the connected-ness of my relationship with all other beings. As an earth bound human with limited understanding of the mystery of life, I can only refer to this as the collective spirit or soul. These are such inadequate words for the change this perception has caused in my relationship to all other people and the rest of creation, as well. At the risk of sounding completely of my rocker I reluctantly share this, I experience a whole new perception of myself as one who is known by the ancestors who have gone before, never have I felt so close to the teachings and world views of the ones who have passed on before us. Never have I felt more concern for, or dependance from the ones yet to come, and to those who are here now, I am your brother Harnsowl. As a human-being, there is no other race than the human-race, and all of creation is our family. Uni-verse is not a place, it is a being. It means, One-song. Thanks.Mar 6 2012: I read a while back that we have more circuits in our brain than there are particles in the universe. When you think of how staggering the size of the universe really is, that puts our brains in a truly unique category of things. It is usually hard to imagine how consciousness could arise within a mere material thing. It is only when we contemplate the staggering and unique complexity of our brains, that there is a glimmerring of how that might be possible.
But still, is the human brain our "identity". Not if what we mean by "identity" is that within us which never changes and thereby quaifies one as always being the same person even though all other aspects of our selves do change. The brain always changes, so it is not something that is permanently identical with itself.
I have suggested below that our identity is not what remains the same within us, but the unity of our stories, which unity arises out of, and is recognized because of, our concern for ourselves and for each other.
Mar 6 2012: Lovely wording...just lovely.
Thank you.Mar 6 2012: Thank you for your comment. It really is a wonder, how small we are in comparison to the universe we live in. It puts into perspective how our identities as humans can constantly change depending on individual experiences. We still have much to learn even with all the consistent advances we have made as human beings.Mar 7 2012: You completely hit the exact opinion that I have pondering. I feel our identity as humans is best described by John Locke in "An Essay Concerning Human Understanding." Identity lies in our consciousness and not in our substance. A human is characterized by its continuous stream of consciousness or life, the stories or memories that are stored and remembered, rather than our physical parts and functions. Thus, our personal identity is unique and provided we preserve a continued consciousness which we can recall at any time, our identity as humans can exist in any form, shape, or body.Mar 6 2012: Among the notions derived from Unity is Identity. Identity means a thing's own coincidence with itself. It means the conformity distinct things with one another in as much as they have something in common, such as genus or species. It is unity in substance. Our Identity as human is from him who is - God,Mar 4 2012: in answer to the question...
"As technology begins to expand, the concept of prosthetics replacing major body parts is not far off. Thus, the question becomes does a person lose their given identity because they are not 100% "human"? "
The answer is it depends on the person. Maybe, just maybe, that's what makes us human.
Manue M
Mar 3 2012: - All cells, our entire body gets renewed. It means that not one piece of our body is now the same at it was when we were born. Does it make us less human? Can you really say "I am my body" without limiting your answer?
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- my dear baby friend is highly handicapped. She is almost blind, she is almost deaf, she cannot even hold her head, she cannot feed herself, she cannot grow without the help of growth hormones. She will be two this summer. She as a human being had, never the less had a major impact on my life. Somehow, she still manages to show her humanity at full.Mar 2 2012: We are human because we have all agreed that that is what we are. Reality is perception, after all. We perceive other humans as being in the same category as us, the same species. We also perceive that this category is different from dogs or rocks or trees. The definition of humanity is ever-changing, with some aspects added, some removed, and some heavily debated. Maybe if we focused less on the fact that we, as humans, are different from everything else in the world, and spent more time exploring what we have in common with everything else, the trend of thought would open an entirely new understanding. The same applies to all the categories we have made: White, black, rich, poor, educated, bum, Christian, Muslim... So many names that do nothing but divide us further into subcategories and emphasize nothing but the differences between us. How's about we identify with the fact that we exist? And identify that we have a responsibility towards and an opportunity to be gained from everything in existence.
Mar 3 2012: Hi Crystelle,
Thank you for your comment. I think you are very right on in saying that there should be more done with the fact that we are indeed existing beings instead of concentrating on all the ways we're different.I like how you introduced the idea that human identities are constantly changing, because you're right. They are. With the world changing around us, so are our perceptions of identity.Mar 2 2012: From our parents? They were human..........verses being monkeys, or pigs.
I know of no other way to answer this question.
Andrew Kiang
Mar 6 2012: I agree that trying to explain our identity as humans is difficult and also turn to thinking about how I was brought into the world. Being born from humans and growing up to look like a human seems like it would make me a human. I remember one of my professors talking about facial recognition and how most human faces can be approximated using a combination of standard faces called eigenfaces.
- +1
Looking at what humans have done through history, I observe that we create technology, explore the world and our universe, and consider a vast range of topics within our brain. Perhaps animals engage in these activities also on a smaller scale, so does effecting the world on a larger scale makes us human? Are we human because of our physical composition or because of the actions we take? Maybe a mix of both? I don't know.
Mar 6 2012: Hi Andrew....Well here is some food-for-thought...you can tell me what you think.
Keep in mind that I have only had one cup of coffee, and that my answer is not scientific,
but I think it is sensible.
We are humans because we can have this conversation on-line.
As humans we ask thought provoking questions.....why are we here? Where does my identity of being a human come from?
A dog, sitting under a shady tree with his tongue out panting is not thinking..."why I'm I a dog? let me ask around to see if somebody can answer this question for me"......
And so, in my honest opinion, our identity to being human is innate in us. We are born human.
That some humans choose to act inhumane, and that we have to resort to human right groups and human right courts is not because we have an identity problem. It is that we have chosen not to be kind, and to love our fellow human......we have free will.
So where does our identity as being human come from? What do you think?
Harnsowl Ko
Mar 6 2012: I think that our identity as being human comes from the shared experiences we all share, and ironically enough, that includes our experiences with technology. Our identity as humans cannot be looked at within a bubble; there is so much that goes on in our lives. Our identity includes so many different aspects that cannot be pinned down to simply one thing. Maybe centuries ago, the perception of identity would have been very different. Granted, we are born with the innate foundations of our human identity. However, the things that surround us mold these foundations and continue to do so for the remainder of our lives.
- +2
Yu-An Chen
Mar 6 2012: HI, Mary,
- +2
I think "We are humans because we can have this conversation on-line." is a killer quote. Good job. I think its the brain made us human. Luckily, we are smart enough to think about other things rather than just basic survivals which is true in most animals. The ability to think and comes up with ideas separate us from animals. Another reason is curiosity, people are curious about a lot of stuff, and one of course is questioning ones identity. I will say the process of thinking about replying to the post itself is already an answer to the postMar 6 2012: Mary, Harnsowl, Yu-an, and Adriaan,
I think these you have all made some very insightful comments. I would like to add a few things--not so much in opposition, but from perhaps a different perspective.
Many humans cannot have this conversation online.
You don't know what animals are or are not thinking. Particularly mammals, with brains not so dissimilar from humans. Apes can speak sign-language, after all.
What is it about the way we are born that makes it a human birth? Our DNA? The way we look? Being carried in the womb? Wording this carefully, I think some people might consider in-vitro fertilization to be something other than human since it is a substitute for a process that is, for lack of better words, more natural, but it certainly produces humans.
And as for human interaction, does a recluse lose his human identity? Is a child raised by a wolf not a human, but a wolf?
I submit one possible answer to these questions: It's an ensemble of the above categories that makes up our human identity. Our human identity is a multi-dimensional spectrum, not a binary yes or no. What do you all think?Mar 7 2012: Mary,
I have to agree with your statement that it is the thought provoking questions that make us human. Science may eventually bring us to the point where could entirely replicate the brain's functions and responses, but being human is more than that. It's having a self aware conscienceless that makes decisions, has a sense of morality, and has the capacity to imagine.Mar 7 2012: Andrew,
I agree that this is definitely more complicated than just a yes or no question. Just quickly if we take a look at when we consider a human being dead in medical and legal terms, it used to be when a major system failed. Now however, with advanced life support this is no longer the case. Instead we have transitioned, I believe correctly, to brain functioning as an indicator for what is considered a human life. If one considers what is different between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom as well as the rest of life on earth is the fact that we unlike all other species have the ability and capacity to question our existence, how we got here, what the meaning of life is. While monkeys may be able to sign you don't see monkey's with organized religions. Thus the brain of the human while similar in many of its anatomical features to those of other species is, due to its capacity for higher learning and complicated thought processing, human. If we lose this capability we are no longer considered to possess human life and therefore either brainstem death or full brain death is considered the actual legal indicator of death.Mar 6 2012: @ Harnsowl, Yu-an, Adriaan, and Andrew...
Thank you very much for your insightful replies.
Harnsowl, you said "I think that our identity as being human comes from the shared experiences we all share, and ironically enough, that includes our experiences with technology." I very much agree with you. The shared experiences is a big part.......I never thought, in a million years, I would be sitting in my own office enjoying a conversation with people from all walks of life and all countries simultaneously, and with so much insight. My life has changed. I feel more....dare I say..."human". Thank you Harnsowl.
Yu-An, I collect quotes....and being told that what I said is a "killer quote", well, that's just about as nice a complement as I can receive. Thank you. And yes, our curiosity about life is also part of what makes us human....and that curiosity has brought us to where we are today.
Yu-An if you want to know where the curiosity can take us.......go to the conversation on favorite quotes, and then click on a link someone provided to youtube......it is short, but meaningful....talk about a killer quote!!!
Adriaan, what can I say......thank you very much. I'm glad that my small simple contribution was worthy of your reply.
Andrew, What do I think? I think you, are very insightful. I love your illustrations, and your many questions to reflect on. Yes, our human identity is made up of an ensemble of things....it is multidimensional.........There is no one answer that would totally satisfiy our complex brain.
Here is a favorite quote of mine: "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of new ideas, never returns to it's original size". Oliver W Holmes.
I want to say to all of you.....my mind has grown quite a bit since this morning...thank you all!!Mar 7 2012: Nicolette,
Your statement, "It's having a self aware conscienceless that makes decisions, has a sense of morality, and has the capacity to imagine" is very concise and very true.
Some 18 years ago I was having a conversation with a young man about being human verses animals. He said we are just like the animals. He said he was the same as a dog. No matter what I said, he still insisted we are all animals, and therefore he had no need to believe in God or the Bible.
I was so shocked at that level of reasoning that I was left speechless. Of course, my brain at the time did not have all the accurate knowledge and understanding it does now, and my ability to make my point was not all it is today.
Still, now, some 17 years later I still remember the conversation.
Just the fact that I can sit at a computer and type away, and hit backspace and reword something I'm not too happy with is part of that wonderful "human" factor.
And yes, because we have a wonderful brain. Nothing else on Earth even comes close to it. We are marvelously made...my soul is very well aware.
Thank you Nicolette. Our ability to imagine also is important as you mentioned. Here is a beautiful quote on our imagination: "Imagination is the highest kite one can fly".Mar 7 2012: Andrew!!!! I'm so sorry to have to highjack your reply button again.
Your words express what I was thinking. Thank you for expounding on the brain.
One of our neighbors fell three years ago and Lou Gehrits disease set on.....she is now in ICU in the last stages all intubated. She manages to open her eyes and look around, but cannot do much of anything else. Still, each time we run our hands through her hair and massage her feet and legs and arms, she will fix her eyes on the one doing the massaging. I know she is there. Her life is so precious to all of us that know her. She IS HUMAN, even though she cannot do anything I do anymore. It is the beating of her heart and her brain function that still keep her alive, and I truly feel she has the sheer will to live......somehow I sense it......I may be wrong.
But I know it will come down to her brain........we are not looking forward to that moment. I know her husband is besides himself with agony.
I wanted to share this story to make this conversation even more HUMAN.....I was inspired by yesterday's TED talk from the PIXAR speaker. Take the time to watch it if you haven't done so yet.
Be Well.Mar 2 2012: It comes from the desire to make the world a better place for all people.
Comment deleted
Mar 1 2012: Hi Adriaan,
Thank you for your comment and two links. I learned quite a bit from them. I understand that we, as humans, have the will and understanding to determine the truth, and that separates us from other beings greatly. However watching Amber Case's TED talk on the relationship between humans and technology raised a question for me. How much of our identity is "stored" via technology? Can't what we say or post on a forum such as this, be considered part of our identity, considering it is our thoughts that we're righting down? I accept that the mind is a component of our human identity, but maybe technology plays a larger role in it than we may think.Feb 29 2012: What you need to consider is whether the human being is the Homo Sapien hominid or if the Homo Sapien hominid creates the human being with its ultra-sophisticated brain as it manages the business of corporeal survival. Intellect obviously exists, and in the same sense that any form of information exists, but it's also obvious that Intellect is capable of dynamic, subjective perception, which is literally impossible for data-centric information. In fact, the Intellect whole - the human mind - is completely self-aware, which is very unique for any identified form of informational existence, and this is where the confusion sets in for that Intellect whole. The issue, of course, being that there are no real existential similars that the human mind can compare itself to, and with its own gestational development tied specifically to the corporeal survival of the Homo Sapien brain, its own unique identity defaults to it - even as the human being seems to know that it somehow exists as separate in a way that it can't quite nail down precisely. Truth is that the human being isn't that hominid and its brain any more than an embryo is its own gestational placenta. In fact that analogy concerning the relationship between the two is extremely accurate.
If Intellect is the conscious, aware presence of the human mind, then the true human being is not a corporeal mammalian organism, but is actually the informational result of the kind of corporeal brain that is capable of "generating" the sort of gathered informational whole that has self awareness, can ruminate, is dynamically expressive, and provides the corporeal organism that gives it physical existence the quality of sentience in the competitive survival arena that is the corporeal realm.
Mar 1 2012: I understand a human being can be identified by the various aspects and characteristics of a corporeal brain. However, can't the external bits of information that are exposed to the world for others to see also be considered part of our identity? A person may know who they are, or at least think. But in actuality, isn't our identity something that other people perceive? In other words, I think that identity can't merely be thought or the ruminations of a brain. There must be further aspects of our world and lives that can be taken into consideration and analyzed as identity.


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The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
Since it's 1000 degrees here in Texas now... I am just wondering what everyone wears to help keep yourself looking and feeling cool? I have a couple Dickies Dri-Fit t-shirts that work pretty good. Other than that it's 100% cotton t's (dark colors cause of the dirt-shoulder-strap marks). I rock cargo shorts mostly... for the pockets.
Anyone else?
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© 2015 Created by Terry "the Pirate" Calhoun.


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Same Universe, Different Lenses: Science, Ethics, and Religion in Dialogue
This is a transcript of an interview given by Dr. Jennifer Wiseman at The Faith Angle Forum Conference on Religion, Politics, & Public Life on November 5, 2013.
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This is a transcript of an interview given by Dr. Jennifer Wiseman at The Faith Angle Forum Conference on Religion, Politics, & Public Life on November 5, 2013.
In his new book Monopolizing Knowledge, physicist Ian Hutchinson engages with the world-view he calls "scientism": "the belief that science, modeled on the natural sciences, is the only source of real knowledge".
In this paper, MIT professor Ian Hutchinson addresses the question of how to engage arguments put forward by the New Atheists. In doing so, he offers a critique of scientism, the assumption that scientific knowledge is all the real knowledge there is.
Many barriers to the acceptance of the BioLogos model by evangelical Christians arise from popular misconceptions about the nature of science and its relationship to God's action in our world.
Ever since modern science emerged in the 16th and 17th centuries, it has been used and abused for purposes that lie well beyond science. Biology has been particularly susceptible to ideological manipulation and application, a trend that shows no sign of abating.
Denis R. Alexander and Ronald L. Numbers bring together fourteen experts to examine the varied ways science has been used and abused for nonscientific purposes from the fifteenth century to the present day. -Amazon
The Bible is no more a book dropped out of the sky than Jesus is some superman who flew down from heaven. Instead, just as Jesus is "God incarnate," both divine and human, the Bible is a book that speaks God's word and reflects the thoughts, ideas, and worldviews of the human authors.
In this scholarly essay, Steve Benner, a Distinguished Fellow of The Foundation for Applied Molecular Evolution in Gainesville, Fla., looks at what the role of a scientist should be. Benner looks specifically at "falsifiability", the acceptance of uncertainty, and the place of the scientist in public discourse.
Science and religion scholar Michael Ruse gives a personal account of his experiences as an author and public speaker on the compatibility of Christianity and biological evolution.
Giberson's essay makes the case that scientific fundamentalists are not merely arguing for the supremacy of science but also presenting science as a quasi-religious replacement. The agenda of the "New Atheists" is not merely to refute mainstream religion but to replace it. Unfortunately, the scientific community is poorly represented by these aggressive public figures.
NASA astronomer Jennifer Wiseman asserts that studying creation can show us the nature of God; science can inform us of what we need to do as stewards of God's creation; understanding the natural world gives us a deeper knowledge of Jesus Christ; and science can give us a better understanding of ourselves. This essay was presented at the November 2009 Theology of Celebration Workshop.
"With scholarship and eloquence that reminds me of C. S. Lewis, Dinesh D'Souza addresses the urgent questions of our time, such as 'Is Christianity believable in the face of the discoveries of modern science and modern scholarship?' " - Reverend Robert H. Schuller
"The humility with which Myers writes and the intelligence with which he composes his arguments could disarm the most jaded cynic." – Worship Leader Magazine
Beyond the Firmament challenges all creationist camps to step outside of traditional paradigms and recognize how our modern scientific worldview actually blinds us from seeing the simple truth of Creation as it was originally intended.
"Alister McGrath invariably combines enormous scholarship with an accessible and engaging style." -- Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury
Oracles of Science examines the popular writings of the six scientists who most influenced our perceptions of science.
Is science fact and religion just opinion? Is there the mind of a Creator behind the universe? Can a scientist pray? This book provides a clear, lively and frank set of answers to these fundamental issues. - Amazon
In THE TWILIGHT OF ATHEISM, the distinguished historian and theologian Alister McGrath examines what went wrong with the atheist dream and explains why religion and faith are destined to play a central role in the twenty-first century. –From the inside flap of the book
Using the insights of modern physics, Barr reveals that modern scientific discoveries and religious faith are deeply consonant.
Enns offers an evangelical affirmation of biblical authority that considers questions raised by the nature of the Old Testament text.


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121 Diamond Spring RoadDenville, NJ 07834
We'll be watching anime and eating snacks. No registration required.
Bring your stuff and work with other teens. No registration required.
Play on our Wii or on board games or just socialize. Free snacks provided. No registration required.
Teens who want to help with this summer's reading program will be oriented. Work with children by helping Ms. Diane or Mr. Bryce with programs. No registration required.
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Earn an hour of volunteer credit by reading reviews and helping us choose new books for our teen collection. No registration required.
Come vent about books you love to hate! Love the book? Come and defend it. Second Friday of each month. No regisration required.
April: Great Expectations by Charles Dickens
May: The Twilight Series by Stephanie Meyers
June: Call of the Wild by Jack London
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Seven people were injured, some critically, during an early-morning spray of gunfire Saturday at a spring break party on the Florida Panhandle, police said. An Alabama man was quickly apprehended and charged with attempted murder.
Hundreds of people gathered outside of the Indiana Statehouse on Saturday, some carrying "no hate in our state" signs, to rally against a new law that opponents say could sanction discrimination against gay people.
The first teaser for Spectre is jam-packed with exciting easter eggs hinting at the plot of the upcoming James Bond adventure.The video begins with Moneypenny visiting Bond (
Apparently there's at least one Daily Show contributor who wants
Taraji P. Henson has apologized to the police officers that she accused of racially profiling her...
Sam Worthington and his girlfriend Lara Bingle have welcomed their first child,
The coming of spring brings with it a number of seasonal tasks. One of them is inspecting your outdoor space to...
Dry wood termites are one of the toughest infestations that exist. These wood-destroying insects can burrow deep into a structure,...
- Events Calendar


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Home > Electronics > Headphones & Earbuds > Gaming Headsets > SteelSeries Siberia V2 Gaming Headset for PS3
SteelSeries Siberia V2 Gaming Headset for PS3
Hear More. Know More. Win More.
The SteelSeries Siberia v2 for PS3 is a wired multi platform console and PC headset, based on the award winning design continuing on from the Siberia line of headsets, combined with the LiveMix technology from the Spectrum line.
On Playstation, the headset is connected through USB for chat audio, and analog for game audio.
PC connectivity is through USB or analog connection. Support for dual connections to PC, making it possible to control individual application sound levels on the AudioMixer.
On Xbox360, the user can connect the AudioMixer to a XBOX360 controller, for full chat functionality.
Materials: Plastic Cover, Leather Cushions, Rubber Cord.
Dimensions: 3.94" L x 6.89" W x 8.07" H; 0.57 lbs.
SteelSeries Siberia V2 Gaming Headset for PS3
SteelSeries Siberia V2 Gaming Headset for PS3
Our innovative products will provide you and your family with years of enjoyment. And with the Brookstone Protection Plus service and replacement plans, you'll have the added peace of mind knowing that if the unexpected does happen, we will simply repair or replace your covered product. Our enhanced coverage goes above and beyond the manufacturer's warranty, saving you time and money.
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Can you believe #TheDress is having a positive effect on society?
Basketball courts aren't the only place for action when the NCAA championships begin later month. Buffalo Wild Wings and Domino's Pizza are among companies that could ride the fan frenzy that accompanies this annual three-week spring sports...
Mark Your Calendar March 12-18Thursday, March 12
The headlines would suggest Europe is under siege: Thousands of Germans march against the continent's "Islamization." French readers flock to read a novel about a Muslim president who imposes Sharia law on their country. Commentators warn darkly...
CBS has revealed a first glimpse of Melissa Benoist as
A NASA spacecraft for the first time has arrived at a dwarf planet to begin a 16-month exploration.
- Events Calendar


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Most people look at the Science Center as a fun and educational place to go on a Saturday afternoon...
What they might not realize is that we're also trusted partners to the school systems of the areas we serve. Our educational programs supplement traditional classroom learning with a valuable informal education and serve to build on the foundation of knowledge kids gain in school. Most importantly, they further the mission of increasing competency in S.T.E.M. (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) competency.
Our educational programs include:
- Field Trips
- Off-Site Programs
- School Break Camps
- Summer Camps & Academy
- Science Competitions
- Homeschool Programs
- Scout Programs
- And much more
These activities enhance classroom experience and provide students with a different way of looking at science, math and technology.
25 April 2011
Posted in Dr. Ying Competition
Kristen Clayton is a 15-year-old budding scientist at Viera High School in Brevard County. Her inspiration for research comes from her daily drive to school, where she sees first-hand the adverse effects of algae spilling out the parameters of the narrow canals that surround her. These images drove her to create an environmentally friendly solution to excessive algae growth. She discovered the usage of Lemna minor, a rapidly growing aquatic plant, in the removal of nitrogen and phosphate from the water to be used as ethanol fuel.
Her research project determines the ideal amount of nutrients needed for Lemna minor to both relieve the waterways as well as produce an efficient future fuel source. In the future, she hopes to further the study by testing Lemna minor's ability to transfer its stored energy to an ethanol/gasoline run device. When she's not in her lab coat Kristen finds joy in ballet dancing, reading, sketching, painting, volunteering and exploring the wonders of nature.
This weekend, Kristen and four other finalists from area high schools will compete for the coveted "Ying Prize" during the Dr. Nelson Ying Science Competition at the Orlando Science Center. The Grand Prize winner receives a $5000 scholarship and an award of $1000 for the student's science teacher or mentor and another $1,000 for the winner's school. To compete in the Ying competition, each entrant must perform a research project that has the ultimate goal of benefiting humanity.
On Friday, April 29, Kristen and her fellow finalists will tour the Minute Maid Laboratories in Apopka and then see the UCF Nanotechnology Department. On Saturday, April 30, they will defend their research before the judges' panel at the Orlando Science Center and then get a behind-the-scenes tour of the facility. On Sunday, May 1, the event will culminate in an announcement of the Grand Prize winners on Sunday at an awards luncheon at Fulton's Crab House at Downtown Disney.


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Would it be interesting to download an run a .dcupdate file for a program which is not installed yet - which launches dcupdater and let dcupdater install the program?
That way you'd never have to point to the executable and the installation could be zero-click. That's pretty amazing.
I guess it would work without much extra development for programs that have an installer, and that .dcupdate files for zipped archives would be installed inside a MyDocuments\DcupdaterApps\<zipfilename> if a default path is not set within dcupdater (as its a portable app).
Imagine all coding snacks pointing to a dcupdate file, wow.


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Udo's Choice believes in the value and power of essential fatty acids in everyone's daily diet. Udo's Choice is committed to creating superior quality products using the utmost care because every cell in your body needs EFAs on a daily basis to function properly. Every part of your body thrives on harmony, which is why Udo's Choice provides a variety of perfectly balanced products providing omegas 3, 6 and 9, probiotics, enzymes and more.
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†Ratings based on results of the 2015 ConsumerLab.com Vitamin and Supplement Users Survey. More information at www.consumerlab.com/survey2015.
Notice: The products and information found on www.swansonvitamins.com are not intended to replace professional medical advice or treatment. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Our dietary supplements are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or medical condition. Individual results may vary. SwansonVitamins.com urges you to seek the advice of a qualified professional for any health concern lasting more than two weeks, and to share with your provider any information pertaining to your health and well-being, including the use of supplemental nutrition. Read complete terms of service.
© 2015 Swanson Health Products
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Rare Book and Special Collections Division, Library of Congress
The America Singing: Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets collection has been migrated to an improved presentation and will no longer be updated in American Memory. Please visit the new presentation.
The Library of Congress presents these documents as part of the record of the past. These primary historical documents reflect the attitudes, perspectives, and beliefs of different times. The Library of Congress does not endorse the views expressed in these collections, which may contain materials offensive to some readers.
|Understanding the Collection
Working with the Collection
How to View: Images
Building the Digital Collection
Copyright and Other Restrictions
|The Library of Congress
|Contact Us


text: Advisor Handbook This on-line Handbook provides information to our academic advisors to assist you in advising your students on the academic policies at Le Moyne College. Reference materials are included as well as guidelines on advising specific populations. Important forms and campus resources for students are also available in the Appendix (Section 5). Cover Page Title/Table of Contents Page Section 1: General Information Section 2: Advising Specific Populations Section 3: Practical Guidelines Section 4: Campus Resources Section 5: Appendix (Forms) Bibliography Download Entire Advisor Handbook From this on-line third edition, current advisors can print out updates to revise your Handbooks. New advisors who do not have a hard copy of the Handbook (binder) should contact the Office of Academic Advising and Support, 342 Reilly Hall, x4624.


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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - Monday, March 25, 2013
9:00 am - 7:00 pm
This event occurs every weekday until March 25, 2013
Sponsored by: University of Maryland University College (UMUC)
University of Maryland University College (UMUC) will host a new exhibit, Joseph Sheppard: A Voyage from Memory, 1930-1960. Throughout his career, Sheppard has explored and taught painting in a realist tradition, and many of his works are based on cultural recollections in the history of the United States. This exhibition focuses on Sheppards artistic journey and his creation of images based on his memory of significant American events. The event is open daily from 9 a.m. 7 p.m.
Event Contact Info:


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Do folding (or telescoping) cross-country skis exist and if so are they useable?
Take the 2-minute tour ×
Sports Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for participants in team and individual sport activities. It's 100% free, no registration required.
There is a folding ski system designed for snowboarders you can see here. I couldn't find any other cross-country folding ski available commercially.
Folding ski for cross-country is also patented under US Patent 6616170.
In addition to @Refineo's links, I was also able to find some other websites, but nothing really conclusive, or useful.
Similar to the MTNapproach skis: http://www.climb.co.at/index.php?lang=en
Russian Patent holder of folding x-country skis: http://www.vector-ski.com/collski_e.html
Backcountry style, but no longer available for sale: http://www.zigzagtour.de/index2.htm
Home-made folding skis: http://www.woodly.de/blog/?p=41


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Home > Electronics > Tablets & Tablet Accessories > Kindle Accessories > Matchstick Kindle Fire Speaker Dock
SAVE Matchstick Kindle Fire Speaker Dock
The perfect sidekick for your Kindle Fire.
The new Grace MatchStick is designed exclusively for the Kindle Fire.
The Grace MatchStick is a stereo speaker dock designed exclusively to play and charge the Kindle Fire. The Grace MatchStick can be rotated 50 or 38 degrees while the cradle can be turned to view your Kindle Fire horizontally or vertically. Add the optional (sold separately) Lithium Ion battery and listen to your music, audio books, or watch your videos for up to 6 hours anywhere inside or outside your home.
Truly enjoy the multimedia apps that the Fire has to offer such as: Netflix, Pandora Internet radio, even audio books. The full range stereos speakers, and charging circuit unleashes the power of the Kindle Fire while keeping it fully charged − for when you are on the go. Whether you are listening to internet radio, streaming your favorite TV shows or movies, or simply need a quick charge, the Grace MatchStick is the perfect companion for your Kindle Fire.
- Material: Plastic
- A/C power adapter
- Remote control
Weight: 4 lbs.
Matchstick Kindle Fire Speaker Dock
Matchstick Kindle Fire Speaker Dock
Our innovative products will provide you and your family with years of enjoyment. And with the Brookstone Protection Plus service and replacement plans, you'll have the added peace of mind knowing that if the unexpected does happen, we will simply repair or replace your covered product. Our enhanced coverage goes above and beyond the manufacturer's warranty, saving you time and money.
- 2-Year Extended Replacement Plan $19.99
- 3-Year Extended Replacement Plan $29.99
Matchstick Kindle Fire Speaker Dock
Matchstick Kindle Fire Speaker Dock
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About LIM College
Auditions for the Leah Ryan Benefit Production
Calling all actors, costumes designers and backstage crew!
All students, faculty and staff members are encouraged to be a part of the Third Annual Leah Ryan Benefit Production. Actors, costume designers, and backstage crew members are all needed. No previous theater experience is required to participate.
Auditions will be held on Wednesday, Sept. 22 and Thursday, Sept. 23 from 1:30 - 2:30 p.m. and 5:30 - 7:30 p.m. in the basement of Maxwell Hall (216 East 45th St.).
There will be one performance on a weekday evening in early November. The exact date and time are TBD.
This benefit is being produced in honor of Professor Leah Ryan of the Arts & Communications Department, who passed away in July of 2008. As well as being an inspiring teacher, she was also a talented playwright and her plays are produced around the country. The proceeds from this production will support a scholarship in Professor Ryan's name established by LIM College.
Please contact Leta Tremblay at 212.752.1530 ext. 427 for more information.


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LEGAL NOTICE: By entering and using www.pnhoffman.com, you have read and understand the terms and conditions and privacy statement set forth herein and are affirmatively indicating that you agree to be bound by them. Copyright © 2006, PN Hoffman
NOTE: PN Hoffman & Associates, Inc., and its subsidiaries and affiliates, provide design, construction, sales, and marketing services for individual residential and mix-use development projects. Each project is developed by a separate, single purpose entity, which is solely responsible for the liabilities and obligations of that particular project. Further information concerning a particular development project can be found on that project's individual website, if applicable.


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La Buche
Noted French screenwriter Daniele Thompson makes her directorial debut with this lighthearted romantic comedy. After the December 21st funeral of Yvette's (Francoise Fabian) second husband, she is consoled by the three daughters from her first marriage to Stanislas (Claude Rich), a Russian-Jewish violinist. The oldest, Lorba (Sabine Azema), lives with her father and makes a living by singing ballads in a Russian cabaret, Sonia (Emmanuelle Beart) is a fastidious middle-class housewife, and Yvette's youngest, Milla (Charlotte Gainsbourg), is a go-getting businesswoman. As Christmas celebrations gather steam, Louba learns that at age 42, she is unexpectedly pregnant by Gilbert, her married lover of 12 years. Meanwhile, Sonia develops a habit of taking five-finger discounts while shopping, and Milla takes up with a mysterious drifter who lives as a boarder in Stanislas' house.~ Jonathan Crow, All Movie Guide
Cast: Sabine Azéma, Charlotte Gainsbourg, Françoise Fabian, Emmanuelle Béart, Sabine Azéma, Emmanuelle Béart
Produced by: Christine Gozlan
Directed by: Danièle Thompson
Written by: Christopher Thompson, Danièle Thompson
Running time: 1hr 46min
Opens: Jan 01, 1999
|Theaters for Today
Pick a day
on this day.


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If so, share your thoughts in the comments of this post. I have a plan for tasks to complete for the rest of the month, but I could combine, delete, and/or add different tasks depending on your feedback. Or I may just write up some extra blog posts to accommodate specific areas of interest. And again, thank you.
|Look at that great article on writing.
For today's task, find a helpful article (or blog post) and share it with your social network--and by social network, I mean that you should share it on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn at a minimum. If you participate on message boards or on other social networks, share in those places as well.
Before linking to an article on fantasy baseball or celebrity news, however, make sure your article (or blog post) aligns with your author platform goals. You should have an idea of who you are and who you want to be as a writer, and your helpful article (or blog post) should line up with those values.
Need ideas for finding articles?
Here are a few lists that I use to find articles of interest for writers:
For Twitter, you may wish to use a URL shortener.
Here are five popular URL shorteners:
- http://bit.ly/. This is my favorite.
- http://goo.gl/. Google's URL shortener.
- http://owl.ly/. Hootsuite's URL shortener.
- http://deck.ly/. TweetDeck's URL shortener.
- http://su.pr/. StumbleUpon's URL shortener.
Happy linking!
Connect with me on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Plus, sign up for free e-mail updates from this blog in the top right-hand corner of the page.
Get Feedback on Your Picture Book Manuscript.
If you're a children's book writer working on a picture book manuscript, getting feedback on your writing has never been easier--or so cost effective! With the Writer's Digest 2nd Draft Critique Service, picture book writers can receive feedback on their picture book manuscripts from publishing professionals.
Click to continue.
Need to catch up or re-visit earlier challenge tasks? Here the most recent:


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Disc #1 gives you the main French-language presentation,
delivered in two episodes: The WHA Years (1972-1979), and The NHL Years
(1979-1995). Disc #2 gives you a host of extras - most significantly, coverage
from the 1977 Avco Cup final game against the Winnipeg Jets, and a lengthy
compillation of full original broadcast coverage of more than 20 of the
greatest goals in team history (most of this coverage is from original
English language broadcasts). You won't believe the stuff you'll see here
for the first time in decades! Amazing stuff - a must for any true hockey
fan and collector.
Product Specifications:


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If you can dream it, you can do it. -Walt Disney
Quality is a great business plan. -John Lasseter
Let's make some funny pictures. -Tex Avery
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -Howard Zinn
When critics sit in judgment it is hard to tell where justice leaves off and vengeance begins. -Chuck Jones
And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? -Jesus
A man should never neglect his family for business. -Walt Disney
What's most important in animation is the emotions and the ideas being portrayed. -Ralph Bakshi
Once you have heard a strange audience burst into laughter at a film you directed, you realize what the word joy is all about. -Chuck Jones
Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -Buddhist Proverb
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Drawing Lessons from Mark McDonnell
Learn about animation from the pros
3 posts • Page 1 of 1
Drawing Lessons from Mark McDonnell
A former student of my school, The Animation Academy in Burbank, who's gone on to establish a great name for himself and be in our Hall of Fame.
Mark McDonnell is a talented character designer, an educator, a self published author, and a well known personality in the animation community here in LA and around the world.
Mark gives a demonstration in tonal drawing while keeping in mind the ground plane and a sense of mood, rough lighting and character to a story driven composition.
Re: Drawing Lessons from Mark McDonnell
Here's mark with a marker demo.
Part 1...
Part 2...
Re: Drawing Lessons from Mark McDonnell
Here's some links that will take you to Mark's sites and blog.
And more video...
3 posts • Page 1 of 1


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Hang tight!
Recipe by GENKIANNA
"It is a delicious lasagna using eggplant instead of pasta."
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1 teaspoon
olive oil for brushing
2 tablespoons
1 cup
grated Parmesan cheese
1 cup
Italian-seasoned breadcrumbs
salt and ground black pepper to taste
2 large
eggplants, peeled and sliced into 1/2-inch rounds
2 tablespoons
olive oil
1 pound
ground beef
48 ounces
chunky tomato sauce (such as Prego®)
2 cups
shredded mozzarella cheese
The preparation of the eggplant makes all the difference. I've tried other eggplant lasagna recipes, and they were disappointing. The eggplant was either overdry and tough or gooey. In either case, it stood out and didn't "pass" as well for pasta.
I prefer to peel the eggplant and slice it lengthwise into strips the approximate width of a lasagna noodle. Start with the strips a little wider than the size you wish them to be, as they will shrink in the over.
Other than using eggplant instead of noodles, you can follow your own lasagna recipe. I like to mix thawed, chopped frozen spinach (which has been COMPLETELY drained and squeezed dry) into ricotta (or cottage) cheese, along with an egg and some shredded parmesan, to use as one of the layers. I also like using Sargento's 6-cheese Italian better than straight mozzarella. Less stringy and more depth of flavor.
A decent, base recipe. I added low fat ricotta cheese and substituted 1 lb. of sauteed, sliced mushrooms for the hamburger to make it vegetarian. I also put all of the Parmesan cheese on top, rather than in the breading mix, to increase the "baked," crusty, cheesy top.
117 Ratings
This was so good I made my own seasoned bread crumbs and added garlic and onions to the ground beef.
I will not change the ingredients but would recommend changing some of the portions. I gues it depend on the size of the eggplant though. My family love cheze. I ended up using about 2lbs of gr bef and about 6 cups of cheese all day. Turned out great!
Great recipe! Huband -who is new to eggplant loved it. So its a great intro for people unframilar to eggplant. But watch that eggplant when your baking eggplant slices the oven I would cook half the time. Burn fast! But still good.
D-lish! I made a half batch of this the night before and popped it into the oven for about 20-25min (a little extra time since it started cold), until it was bubbly. It turned out Great. The flavors melded well and even my picky kids ate some. We'll definitely have this again.
Half batch was plenty for us 2 adults and 2 kids ages 3 & 18mo.. We still had enough to take for lunch the next day for both adults.
This is a wonderful dish! And my family loves eggplant cooked this way so much that now I don't even bother putting the lasagna together - they eat the eggplant up before I can assemble!!!
Awesome! I loved the way the eggplant was prepared and so did my kids!! I pulsed some onion, squash, and mushrooms (whatever I had in the fridge) in the processor and added it to the beef. It is a dish I feel good about serving to my family and they absolutely loved it! We now call it 'Sneaky Lasagna' since it is packed full of vegetables, but tastes like traditional lasagna, only better!
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
Eggplant Lasagna
Serving Size: 1/8 of a recipe
Servings Per Recipe: 8
Amount Per Serving
Calories: 404
Calories from Fat: 185
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Layers of breaded roasted eggplant with ground beef, tomato sauce, and cheese.
See how to make a cheesy 5-star lasagna with ground beef.
See how to make a meaty lasagna completely from scratch.


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Local health officials are continuing to monitor the severe outbreak of influenza in the community at what is normally just the start of flu season.
"It is an early season," said Dr. Gloria Addo-Ayensu, director of the Fairfax County Department of Health. "Normally influenza season peaks in the January to February time frame."
During the last five weeks, the health department has seen higher than normal activity in the areas they monitor to help paint a picture of how widespread the influenza virus is in the community.
Inova Health System also has seen higher than normal activity at its hospitals. Both the numbers of people with flu-like symptoms and the number of positive test results are more than double what they were during this period in the winter of 2010-2011 and exponentially higher than a year ago.
For example, the week of Jan. 6, 327 people at Inova facilities tested positive for flu compared to 11 the same week last year, according to data provided by Inova.
"We simply ramp up, we open more units and we bring in more staff," said Tony Raker, public relations officer with Inova Health System.
However, Raker notes, people who believe they have the flu and are not in a high-risk category for developing complications from the disease don't necessarily need to be seen in the emergency department; they can go to their regular physician or an urgent care facility.
On the positive side, the virus is not any more dangerous than normal, Addo-Ayensu said.
"It's not that the virus is deadlier or more virulent or it is making people sicker," she said.
For many people, having the flu means a few days of feeling miserable, but it is not life-threatening. However, the virus can be more severe in young children, the elderly, pregnant women and people with underlying medical conditions, and thousands of people in the United States die from influenza every year.
To help protect hospital patients and staff, Inova has place restrictions on visitors to its hospitals. Anyone with flu-like symptoms will not be allowed to visit patients in the hospital, and visitors may be issued masks or other protective clothing.
This is not the first time the hospital system has taken such measures, but it also is not something that happens every flu season, Raker said.
Health officials also are continuing to encourage people to get a flu shot if they have not done so already. Having greater immunity in the community as a whole helps protect those who are more susceptible to becoming seriously ill with the flu, Addo-Ayensu said.
This year's flu vaccine is a very good match for the top three strains of the influenza virus now circulating, according to Addo-Ayensu. Even people who have already had flu-like illness should still get vaccinated, she said, because they could still catch one of the other strains, or they might have been sick with a different type of virus.
The vaccine is still readily available at most locations, including the county health department. Inova also has scheduled some additional public vaccination clinics in response to the outbreak.
"We recommend that everyone who can get the vaccine get it," Addo-Ayensu said. "There is no reason people shouldn't be taking advantage of it."