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- Jah Kable
- Troy, NY
- United States
Thinker ready to be unleashed upon the world,
This conversation is closed.
Evolutionary! Let me know your thoughts and how you could help facilitate something like this.
Its time for a change. We all know this. We think it's time for a change to fix a financial system or prevent business from failing or to protect our country by whatever means necessary. No this is not the time for that. NOW is the time for a change on how we treat each other and how we think of each other. It is time for a spiritual change, a moral change, a change that really matters to our children and their children. We have to change or we doom them to pay for our irresponsibility and ignorance. I will not ask you to make this change for me or for your country. I ask you to do this for your family. That is all I can ask of you because I will do the same for mine EVERY SINGLE TIME! We don't need to change the world. The world got us this far but we have lost our way. We all seek the path of peace and prosperity BUT this cannot be achieved through violence or intimidation. This can only be achieved by UNDERSTANDING. Understanding that we cannot rely on people who lie for a living. We cannot rely on pretenders. It is clear we cannot rely on what we have been relying on. We must rely on each other. They do not want to help us. We've made it easy for them. I refuse to continue this any longer. I'm tired of being walked on, I'm tired of breaking my back to make a company richer while I struggle, I'm tired of it all. Aren't you? It is time for this change. We are watching the world fall to pieces day by day. I say we build our world NOW as we watch this old world crumbles beneath us. We CAN make it better. We just have to work together and believe. Think of what Humans have achieved in small groups throughout history. Everything we know now is because a brave group believed they could make a new way. Lets not let their efforts and sacrifices be in vain. All we have to do is try.
Lawren Jones
Aug 10 2013: Didn't John Lennon already sing this tune?
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Aug 11 2013: I was getting flashbacks from the 60's too - lol
"Come together right now.."
Same old stuff different decade.
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Aug 16 2013: We still missing to understand what kind of "change" are we talking about...
Is it Social change? Moral change?, Ecology change? Belief system change? Technology change?
In any case, if we are discussing Social and Moral changes, we must remember there have been and still are incredible persons giving and dedicating their life on behalf of Human Enhancement.
I suppose the OP suggests a higher degree of Humans is expected to rise, promoting changes and bringing life on this world to a new level of understanding, tolerance, freedom and happiness.
Is it any other way?
Aug 18 2013: " It is time for a spiritual change, a moral change, a change that really matters to our children and their children." This is really an overall change of almost everything which is what will be necessary to make this change stick.Aug 18 2013: I think that if everyone had a helping mentality it could catch on. It seems unlikely that my generation could accomplish this but teaching the next generation how to think and act like this is much more likely.
And yes Carolyn I love my brain and the things it comes up with.
Aug 18 2013: Hey Jah:
Whether is on topic or not, if find something VERY interesting in your last paragraph...
"I love my brain and the things it comes up with."....
This brings up a question I make to many folks:
Who is the "I" loving the brain?
Is it the brain saying it "owns and loves himself"?
I strongly think, no matter being repressed, we are NOT the brain or product of it's activity. You are right. The brain is ours!
We have a brain..... Who are "we"?
Interesting subject for a new conversation indeed!
Aug 19 2013: I believe I is my soul. My body is just a vessel. I'm a big believer in reincarnation too. A little short on time right now or I would fill this box Mike. What are your thoughts on the soul?Aug 19 2013: Of course! We are all souls!
I might have different ideas on the subject of soul, life, recurrence, reincarnation, the beyond, life-after-death.
But we certainly are of a Spiritual Nature.
Now: The subject of this topic translate into: Should ideas, theories, communications or anything relative to the Soul and Spirit be subject to restrictions, ridicule, banning and persecution?
Science (thanks God not all, neither all scientists) are making strong efforts to destroy the right to openly discuss the subject. They might find "proof" of the ideas being "dangerous" and "harmful".
Once proven, there will be herds of science believers or followers ready for combat!
The new Inquisition might be looking at us!
A plain return to the pagan pre-Christ Roman eras or am inversion of the Spanish Inquisition which wanted to force Galileo into accepting the earth was flat as a tortilla!
The same irrationality is exhibited today in many pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-rational circles trying to control what people think and what people believe!
Fritzie -
Aug 14 2013: I agree with you, Jah, that how we treat each other and think about each other is a pivotal factor in what we can accomplish. Working together means being able to listen to different points of view, consider challenges to our ideas, and ask difficult questions. I think it means being really conscious of tendencies to label "them" and "us,' where "them" will often include people who keep asking questions because their integrity prevents than from following anyone blindly.
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It is useful for each of us to remember that our friends are not only those who say yes to everything we say. People do not need to be clones of each other to build something together. It is better if they are different.
What are you doing, Jah, along the lines of what you propose?
Aug 15 2013: At this moment, I am just spreading the idea. I'm only 23 so I'm still trying to get my life together and the way I am doesn't work to well with the way the world is right now. And yes the variety of thoughts and people contributing is the only way we can truly achieve the best society we can make. Violence stops this process in its tracks. Everyone gets so caught up on "you did this to us so we will do this to you". Didn't they ever learn to be the bigger person and walk away? It is hilarious to me that you said that following blindly thing because that's what got us here. We followed our gov't blindly into Iraq and after a few years Bush admitted he couldn't prove it was Al Quada that did 9/11. Yet the war goes on. We blindly follow central banking as well. It is so ironic that people would feel that way when that is what our lives are today. We know nothing compared to the gov't and we know almost nothing about their actions and reasons for their actions. Everything is classified yet people justify with no information at all. If people are going to follow something blindly they should follow something that will potentially benefit everyone, and I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH, not just Americans or Israelis or anything else like that. Ever person has the same needs. This is our common ground. Most people share goals. More common ground. Everyone wants to be happy and live peacefully. The most important common ground. We should be trying to achieve this. What is the purpose of being so smart and aware of our consciousness if we ignore it and don't things we know we should? I've always felt I should help someone if I could because I hope they would feel the same. That is something my grandmother taught me and I don't have her anymore and I don't plan on giving up what she taught me or changing who she made me because the way the world thinks. I want the world to be better for my kids. I want them to hear violence/war and not know what it is. That's my world.
Fritzie -
Aug 15 2013: You will find it is entirely possible to live life by your standards of reaching out to others, what some faiths call "brotherly love," what others call "repairing the world"... It is indeed a fulfilling way of life, taught by grandmothers the world over and practiced by their progeny.
- +1
Yes, following blindly is not a wise course in life in my opinion and questioning is a good thing.
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Aug 14 2013: That was really good and thats exactly what i want other people to do. Give ideas and thoughts and if they would help do this when the day comes.Aug 11 2013: Dear Jah,
any line, any aspect of your calling I share with you, because I think what you are describing is true.
It took me some years to understand the direction 'our world' was changing towards, and to peace together different information of different sources to a mosaic, which image I didn't like. Unfortunately, the newest 'pieces' do not contradict this picture and only blend the seam lines.
When I was trying to 'be' the change I wanted to see, it didn't work out well from within 'the system', as the ruling paradigms have been engraved steadily and deep into our societies.
One of those modern paradigms is the installation of 'individualism', which allowed for a whole new freedom for oneself to interact or not to interact with society, which as a consequence, lead to a new form of self chosen 'isolation'. I don't think that this new form of 'individualism' is negative in its nature, but it seems to have weakened our instincts to 're-connect' which each other in times of need.
I also think, that the overall 'pain threshold' has not been reached yet, even though this fact on its own is surprising enough. When I look at the fact, that 'we', meaning the 'first world' societies, are living in the most comfortable times ever, technically seen, it is terrifying how little of it seems to be consciously 'felt' by the people within them.
The rise in prescription of psycho chemicals and 'burn out' syndromes, the disintegration of family structures, the decline in birth-rates, all of this indicates more than clearly, that 'the system' does not work for us and only 'we' work for 'the system'.
At the moment I have not the slightest idea what I could do to 'help facilitate' what you propose, and I think I am not alone with this feeling of helplessness.
My only explanation for this, my 'paralysis', is, that I didn't have reached my 'individual pain threshold' yet. Multiply this by the numbers of 'individuals' it may need much more disturbance for 'EVOLUTION' to come.Aug 10 2013: Hi Dear jah kable,I deem every change should be from myself at first.Aug 10 2013: "Let me know your thoughts and how you could help facilitate something like this."
I believe you must begin and continue to, plant the seeds of change in others minds.
Conscious and unconscious. Actually, in the unconscious mind is where it is planted in order
to take root and grow.
The change? Thinking differently. Imagining new ideas and ways instead of dismissing them.
One reason new things are dismissed so quickly and easily is that today, people are highly
brainwashed. They hear sound bites of every kind that enter their psyche, dwelling there as
lies that have usurped the seat of truth within them. Once these lies are repeated enough times,
people hum them, sing them but worse, they believe and live by them.
They become what I call, "deep-seated beliefs" but they are not real beliefs. They are what people have
been told to believe, what to think, what to say and what to do. Conversely, they are also told what
not to believe, what not to think, what not to say and what not to do.
The effect is that they become personally-perceived convictions, but notice. In the word convictions,
is the word "convict" and people are now prisoners of these false beliefs, en masse.
One reason people react angrily to the truth is because it goes against the lies they have within them and they
have also been brainwash-trained into reacting that way and dismissing the truth. A great effect of this
is that when the truth enters the psyche by word, ad, image or voice, it has to run, be filtered or be diluted by this baffle-like system, as it seeks the seat of truth within human minds. By the time it reaches a persons inner core, it is literally devoid of the real truth and people wind up a baffled lot. And they are. Just look at them. Being slapped right in the face. Theft of their freedoms, breaking into their privacy and demolishing it, constant threats of terror and terrorism using lies and it is now done right out front, in broad daylight.
They have to be woken up first.
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Aug 10 2013: I'm not very religious to be honest with you. Thank you for all that too and the group is not formed yet but i figure "We The People" would be good.Sep 8 2013: These concerns may be precisely why the current day would be a horrible time for revolution. The American revolution was wrought by colonies with experience in mostly ruling themselves, who after winning the war had the power to codify their wishes for the country. A revolution today wrought by the powerless poor against industrial complexes they know nothing about would result in disaster - an unguided missile providing a blank slate to the powerful in its wake. A new government would be created by corporate and foreign lobbies, likely without many of the rights that we enjoy today.Aug 23 2013: Thats why we have systems, close systems and open systems (what do and not do)
This is why things are like the way they are, its someones IDEA and or thoughts, you want CHANGE thats how it all started with charge because nothing stay the same, I can only hope that after you have achieved the change you are seeking nobody will be overstaped with your change, nobody will feel that your change interfered with his space. They all say its for a greater good and yet we all sufer from greater good, end up paying tax (not negotiable), paying for land which I think it was someone's IDEA to say land belong to some individual.
Aug 31 2013: land ownership came to us through oppression and it is a problem no doubt. but you have to fix the things you can fix before you try to fix the things you cannot (currently).Aug 23 2013: if people buy land as much as possible and open it up to those who are willing to work the land to grow food and provide shelter and energy freely, this will create self sustainability and an alternative to dependence on the system. ultimately evolution is that which unites people, just as cells coming together and becoming larger organism was maor evolutionary push forward.Aug 18 2013: https://sphotos-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1209307_222043017948503_868174585_n.jpgAug 15 2013: Blablablablablablabla. I have just translated your entire rant into a single "word". You spew lots of vague generalities and emotionally-laden terms, but nothing real, nothing concrete, nothing common-man oriented. Let me guess, your "change" must be in gigantic "movements" or other dramatic gestures.
Such "changes" usually end up merely as "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." What is a "real" change? At what point would it become so important that we are to start hurling bombs or shooting people, because such wild-eyed ranting as yours feeds the bomb-throwers.
Aug 18 2013: Bryan, I find it comical that you blame people who voice their ideas for the violence that people commit against them.! If that isn't a completely messed up mindset, I don't know what is. MLK got what he deserved and so did JFK because their "wide-eyed ranting"? Or is it only ranting when your a normal person? Or does actually being successful turn your rant into a speech? I can't agree with your thought at all. If you wanted to disagree you can make some valid points to why you don't believe in what I said? I'm also sorry that you expect the new world to be the same as the old one with a different face. That is the hopeless mentality that keeps us stuck. The world was made by people no smarter than us. I feel we are smarter now so why wouldn't we make the world better? I will let my thoughts evolve along with my actions and my message. You have every right to be a deconstruction person but that's not me. Hope you get better soon Bryan,
Aug 18 2013: Are you pretending to be as stupid as you sound? Quote SPECIFICALLY where I blamed victims of violence for the violence. GIVE THE SPECIFIC QUOTE. The "new world" will be the same as the old, because people like you--totalitarian dogmatics who refuse to compromise or bend, will be the ones who run the "new world", just like they run the old.
Aug 18 2013: "At what point would it become so important that we are to start hurling bombs or shooting people, because such wild-eyed ranting as yours feeds the bomb-throwers."
Specifically the second part of this quote.Ranting like mine feeds "bomb-throwers".Those people are called extremists and I don't approve of that.
People who oppose multi-million/billion dollar corporations are usually the people being attack. Who did Monsanto hire??? Blackwater mercenaries or whatever they are called.
The ones who stand to lose profits are the ones that attack, covertly of course.
If you read my comments I'm quite sure I said in one manner or another that I don't condone violence or the use of violence to coax someone to think like me. I'll admit that if you think what I'm saying is impossible or too expensive, I'd say you care too much about dead people on fancy paper.
History has proven that people will do very bad things to get rich or become powerful. Seeing as I have tolerated this world and attempted to compromise and just can't stand all the things i see not happening because of money. Kids starve because of money. People don't get medical attention because of money. We don't take advantage of technology to save natural resources because of money. If money was gone these problems would disappear. You can disagree if you want but I'm still going to do what I've been doing and spread the message I've been spreading.
By the way the new world will be ran by the people. We can communicate world wide in the blink of an eye. Man I don't know though, if you can't see it than I'm sorry. I see a great future in my mind and have hope that something close to it can be achieved. We just have to work together. One day we will see and I really do hope something changes peoples minds even if it is not me.
It was good debating with you Bryan. I look forward to the next one.Aug 15 2013: I concur.Aug 14 2013: Evolution fundamentally means "change". Hence, evolution is happening permanently. There it seems to be a great confusion about the meaning of -evolution-
If the question in this topic really is: Is it time for a change IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION then we should all agree. But we should also realize such "evolution" would be CREATIVE EVOLUTION, or an evolution with a direction, a purpose, an aim.
Such as the so called Universe Evolution.
If the universe would be a product of pure evolution, chaotic, as ruled by the second law of thermodynamics then at this time there should be no beauty, no order, no extreme complexity, no wonder of Human Kind, not an awesome Universe at all.
Yes! we can make it better! With creativity. Not by mere evolution.
Thinking otherwise is accepting the crude views of pure evolutionary minds, which deny the most important element for an Evolution. Without a Director; without a Creative Mind evolution leads to total disorder, total chaos. That is a FACT!
Would you leave the creation of better ways for this world to mere chance?
It would be quite silly! Just as to think the Marvel of our Universe has happened by mere chance...
Aug 15 2013: As a biologist, the idea that a stochastic process cannot give rise to "order" is quite absurd. Nothing at all in the second law of thermodynamics says that, at any given moment, every individual local condition must be more chaotic than every given local condition of a previous time point. All it says is that the sum total of conditions will, over enough time, be more chaotic. It says nothing about the specific condition of a specific time and place. Indeed, second law is so chaotic that it even permits for local order to exist and for order to actually increase on a purely local basis, for a limited time (say, no more than a million years or so), so long as, over the entire lifespan of the universe, the entire system moves to chaos.
A simple analogy: The Toy Law of Toy Sums says that, given 1000000000000000000000 different numbers, the sum of those numbers will ultimately go from the original maximum value to zero over a period of 100000000000000000000 years. Okay, so, let's say that you are able to track 1000000 numbers over a period of 10000 years. Your observation says that the sum is actually climbing, ever so slightly. That doesn't prove the Toy Law of Toy Sums is false. After all, you have only observed 1/10000000000000000000000000000000 of the numbers to which the Toy Law applies. Likewise, someone else, who observed an overlapping but different set of numbers, comes up with a decreasing sum. Now what? The existence of local order is not adequate to disprove the second law of thermodynamics, since the second law does not preclude local order. It talks about the end-game sum vs. the start-game sum.
Aug 15 2013: I've heard the argument before, many times indeed. Curiously, it seems to be a favorite argument from biologists, which strangely think the whole evolution is solely related to biology and the Life process.
Being myself a Computer Scientist, with easy reach to complex computer systems, we have many times created simulations of pure chaotic generation, starting from a perfect data order. We could observe, after performing an enormous amount of generation cycles, serendipity increased constantly, and our search and efforts to identify any particular "local order" we found very rare and occasional minimal set of simplistic order, never comparable to the tremendous complexity and exquisite order found in the Universe. At speeds over 1 GigaFlop, we prolonged the experiment, doing iterations for an equivalent of 4000 million years of evolution, resulting in no evident surgence of any appreciable order.
The phenomena was TOTALLY different when we introduced minimal rules (laws of generation) within the system. Then we could obtain growing patterns of order and even exquisite results, but we must remember this were the actual expressions of the programmer's intentions.
I really would like to see a clear demonstration of a significant "local order" from a pure and clean thermodynamic process, WITHOUT any admissible and indentifiable external influence
Aug 16 2013: You both have very good points but I have to point out I used evolution to replace revolution because revolution implies a revolving cycle. Evolution seems to be a better word for how serious the change would be. It wouldn't be something we could reverse after it happens. I'm glad people are getting so into this!!
Thank you both and keep the passion.
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Aug 15 2013: This idea would be so huge if i knew everything that needed to happen but I do not and I don't mind that. If the whole change was only my ideas and what i wanted it would be unfair to some. This is an idea that everyone must contribute to and strive to achieve. I do believe everyone can make this change even though you do not. Society, as we know it, has taught us that there is not enough for everyone whether it be food, land, housing, power, control, ect. The list is endless yet everyday we see that there is more than enough for everyone. Why are people suffering if we can help them? They don't have money to pay for the help. Why do empty houses outnumber the homeless 5 to 1? Because they don't have money. Yes, money is a big cause of this but if we as people place it above other people than that is our own mistake. We have been molded into this as you said but that does not mean we cannot change. If history has taught us anything, it is that we constantly change. The change has been so little in the past century its astonishing. Our technology improved and we did not. We do have the power to make a better world. I, personally would start by putting the homeless in these empty houses. Think of all the shelters that could be helping other people or the people that work at the shelters that could do other things. Most of the homeless are not crazy, they just fell and no one reached out to help them up. I don't want to be left there and I doubt anyone would. Everyone needs help from time to time but when they are capable they will help someone else. It's the new circle. The circle of kindness or love or just karma. The second thing I would worry about is stopping outsourcing. How many people are jobless because a company wants to raise profits? I couldn't even imagine. I understand it helps those countries we outsource to, but at what cost to us. I hate money. I see the evil.
This is my ideal world.
Thank you Carolyn. My brains warm now :DAug 12 2013: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/999427_553170374731353_1366656592_n.jpgAug 12 2013: It's pretty simple, "You can accept the world for what it is and allows those in control to stay in control or you can stand up for things you believe need to change and maybe change the world." If this isn't in you already than I can only hope you see one day but if you believe everything is fine and we are doing the best we can, please go hang out with the other sheep.Aug 11 2013: There's not a solitary idea, insight, or even an opinion put forward in this post. It's just one long, emotional felling expressed really really hard, and with lots of CAPS.
It's not enough to want something, to WEALLY WEALLY want something. You still have to have some sort of intellectual plan with specific points or germane examples to make it happen.
Aug 12 2013: I believe the emotional/spiritual change i spoke of is a solid and intellectual idea, even thought is not the theory of relativity. It is also something we need that would change the world. Is it dumb to help another with a hope they will help you one day? I don't believe it is. I think that would be genius because it would be like an eye for an eye except in a good way. Yeah me and my idealistic thoughts. Hear this first, without idealistic people we would not live how we live today. So I will be idealistic and I will always think we can improve and I will never give up that idea and will pass it on to whoever will listen.
Aug 15 2013: You believe the emotional is a solid and intellectual idea? So does my two-year-old grandson. Feeling something very strongly means nothing. It does not make it just, virtuous, or even sensible, only felt. I have come across people who believe all sorts of things, contradicting each other, each feeling their beliefs so very strongly. Didn't make any of them right or give any of them useful ways to get their goals accomplished.
Aug 18 2013: You're the type of person that is always doubtful, it seems. And you didn't even quote me right but good try. I have a hopeful mentality, I believe there is a better tomorrow if we aim to achieve it. I believe that if we just wait we are going to follow people that have no concern for most of us. I will not follow people who do things I don't agree with like killing people, bombing civilians, lying to citizens of their country, promising things they never aimed to achieve, selling your opinion to corporations, take advantage of millions of people, ect. The list goes on and on and on. I won't agree with it so I will try to change it or die trying to change it. History has proven the way things are now was achieved by violence and war not cooperation. Where has the violence and war lead us... to more violence and war. You live with this every day and don't try to change it? So you find todays world virtuous, just, and sensible?Aug 11 2013: You got it Jah.
The call is in the air. I know it is. The days of the league of big corporations are over. The media you are using to speak your mind is one proof of it.Aug 11 2013: Can't agree more.
W. Ying
Aug 10 2013: .
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"Peace and prosperity" "can only be achieved by UNDERSTANDING."
(1) Invalid (harmful) happiness makes greed.
(2) Greed makes all evil.Aug 9 2013: I use to think this but if you look at the last 500 years there has been nothing but constant change. My kids will see in their future changes from this era disappear like that of my parents and their parents saw in their time, like you will see in yours.Aug 9 2013: It is time to end the "Change!" We all known this to be self-evident and true.
It is government has killed the America dream, not its citizens.
And by citizens I include those who run businesses.
Yes, America should be grateful to the world, for we are a blend the world. Every culture and country is a part of America, thus America is part of them.
It is because we know all humans are created equal, we know all of mankind most be free from oppression. (Isolation is not a option)
If you're tired of working for others, then start our own business. But no wait!
It is the government that punishes small businesses owners with over taxation and costly rules.
Like I said "It is time to end the "Change!" and return to WE The People!
and Have a nice weekend everyone! :)
Aug 9 2013: Exactly what I'm saying and that is a change. We have lost control of our own country to bought politicians and billion dollar corporations. We The People need to take control once again and put things the way they need to be for ALL not the way they are to benefit a very select FEW. We do need change, just not the typical change I believe you're speaking of.
You have a nice weekend too, I appreciate the input Don.Aug 9 2013: How is it that when you make a company richer, you don't become richer, too? Aren't you part of the company?
Aug 9 2013: Exactly right. Every time their stock rises, the employees should be paid more as well or receive a real percentage of the bonus. CEO's get bonus' that rise above the millions while the thousands and thousands of workers they employ get nothing or close to nothing. They will say we give you insurance the work conditions are good, how are you complaining? To which i ask the question, If i do more work than you AND and a effective part of the company, such as yourself, do you or do you not believe I deserve the same bonus as you?
Aug 9 2013: Well, I don't know much about that, Jah, it would seem you'd need sustained rise. I would think it'd be smart for an employee to pay attention to their company's stock, and if they see a sustained rise, use it as leverage to negotiate for more salary. I don't believe the average worker works as hard as the CEO, but they deserve to benefit if they are helping the company succeed.Aug 11 2013: The problem is that we choose democracy only for our political system, yet didn't install it within our economy.
As the majority of people are employees, there is simply no choice for them on the job market to join a company in which they become joint partners. Companies, in which each worker has one vote and who have a say in the decision making process within. There are only a view companies I know of, who have this democratic system installed, but all of those workers are very much involved in the well being of THEIR company and do not 'innerly' resign or detach from their jobs .
Throughout my whole professional life I only met a view people who really loved what they were doing. All the others, me included, more or less just arranged with it, or got trough with it waiting for the next weekend to come.
Having heard all of this 'efficiency chatter' of McKinsey and alike, no one ever tackled this 'core problem', because they knew they couldn't fix it, even though most of the 'efficiency problems' are related to it.
Any company I worked for was constantly 're-arranging' their internal processes to optimize the overall efficiency. None of them listened to their people, their workers. Of course those external consulting agencies tapped into the knowledge of 'the workforce', but not to listen to the real 'problems', but to fill their PowerPoint slides with valid company numbers to support their prepackaged 'solution plan', which always boiled down to the simple rule: Less people do the same and more than more people did before...
If 'the people' had a vote in this, they would not have allowed the benefits to rise on their costs ...
So I think that democracy@work has a lot potential to not only stabilize 'hyper nervous markets', but to eradicate those 'bubble creating mechanisms' and to bring economy 'down to earth', to ensure solid foundations for domestic markets.
Shipping jobs to China for profit maximization would not happen in a democratically run company.
Aug 11 2013: Well, I appreciate your reply, Lejan ., you are talking about a field I don't know much about. Offhand it seems to me you cannot give everybody an equal vote, because some people know more about the work being done and thus their opinion counts for more and is worth more, what do you think? It seems to me in a good company that if a worker at the bottom had a good idea, the company would listen, I know I worked parking cars for a while and the company encouraged all the employees to submit ideas, if the company used the idea the company would pay the employee. Would this make you happier at your company?
I somewhat follow the Masai way, the Masai people of Kenya, is there much awareness of Masai in Germany? In Masai there are no company, no variety of job, every man is a dairy farmer herding some cows and living on milk and beef, and every woman is a dairy wife.
Aug 11 2013: Transferring your argument into political democracy, anyone who has a university degree in politics then has more voting power than someone who doesn't, just because he knows more about it? No, I don't see any reasonable argument why that should be.
Transferring your argument into todays reality, the decision power would then be turned upside down, if it was about the knowledge of the making. Because as 'higher' you look, as less knowledge is expected and usually to be found. Very complex and detailed process knowledge gets reduced further and further until if finally fits on a single PowerPoint slide, of which the largest part is a colorful picture. That is why many CEO's can swop industry sectors in a heartbeat. Today they are leading a shipyard, tomorrow they run an internet service provider. And this not because they are that smart, but because they run both companies on numbers only. In my opinion, this is not enough to make the right decisions for a specific company in a certain business area.
Knowledge is not a good indicator to describe someones 'voting percentage', as knowledge is often willingly withhold by some towards many, for base motives, such as becoming 'indispensable' for a company or simply out of false pride.
I had to learn that the hard way, and I was simply speechless when I found out about it.
My view on any company is pretty simple. As long as there are not more people employed than needed, anyone is necessary to anyone else to get the job done and to earn at least all the salaries needed at the end of the month. And all jobs are to be appreciated to the same degree and respected, because only a good working team is able to sustain.
Maybe I see it this way, because I worked most of my time within R&D and have been connected with all departments of the company to guide the whole process towards the final product of even our customers.
Knowledge is manifold and spread across all people of a company who should all have equal votes.Aug 11 2013: I would say that there is not much awareness in 'average' Germany about the Masai. Many here know them as tall, elegant and beautifully build people. Others have Kenya on their 'vacation to do list' or already been there. The last thing I remember to have learned about the Masai was a short documentary in which was reported, that cellphones have already reached their circles... I remember that I felt stupid about my reaction that it felt strange to me to picture a Masai with a cellphone. But why should they be any different from us? :o)Aug 12 2013: Doubt you can transfer the argument into the political sphere, Lejan.. It seems like our societies agree that everyone has an equal right to, and interest in, certain extremely basic services, such as clean water. These very basic services are what politicians concern themselves with, thus we give everyone an equal vote.
The things that companies produce we seem to think different people deserve different levels of quality. For instance, everybody deserves transportation, but not everybody deserves a Rolls-Royce. Only some people will know how to produce the high quality of a Rolls-Royce, and they will form the Rolls-Royce company; and within that group some will know more than others, thus they will be the leaders of the company.
I would say a smart company listens to every employee, if a low-level employee has a good idea the superiors should pick up on it and utilize it.
Aug 12 2013: We may never agree on this.
In my view no one 'deserves' any Rolls-Royce, as it is not about 'deserving' at all and just about who can 'afford' it.
And those who actually know how to produce the quality of such a car, the craftsmen, are those who get paid the least in the chain of hierarchy within that company. The truly big bonuses and incentives are given not to those who actually make the car! This is a fundamental rule of any capitalistic system, which society keeps accepting still...
My personal experience with 'smart companies' who should listen to every employee didn't turn out well, repeatedly and this for a simple rule: profit maximization.
I have seen systems being installed to collect and evaluate 'good ideas' of all employees and even to guarantee a short response and feedback loop, so that no one would get the feeling, that their ideas would get lost within the process. The results didn't match the expectations and this for several reasons.
First of all was, that those higher ranked experts who had to evaluate those ideas simply didn't have the time to deal with this 'extra work' loaded on them to do it thoroughly and right. Which resulted in standardized 'response letters' and quick and superficial evaluations, often without any calculation whatsoever. Also most of this experts were personally responsible for a certain field of production, standing by their rule of survival 'never to change a working process', as anything else bares the risk of failure.
So whenever there comes an idea, lets say, to exchange this highly expensive lubricant of this machine by a way more cheaper one, the personal interest of the one in charge of that process overruled the possibility, that this idea might have worked out well. And by the given tight time schedules within production, there never is a window of opportunity for trial and error.
And because most employees aren't stupid, they'll sens any pleaded excuse for not trying their idea, so the next ideas areAug 12 2013: either not given at all, because it doesn't make any sense anyway, or they start censoring themselves under the same restrictions of 'reality', which will have the same result in not naming any new ideas which might work ...
Second problem always turned out to be the 'reward' mechanism for a good idea, as here it always becomes a conflict of interest between the employer and his employees, and also there is a dis-balance of knowledge about the 'true numbers'. Lets say you named an idea which could save the company 2 million dollar a year, so the question becomes, how much of this saving should be shared and for how long? If you didn't name the idea, the company would loose millions year after year after year, but do you think any employee would ever get 50% in reward? And if so, do you think he or she would get it for as long his of her idea was applied? The company would still save 1 million a year, but I have never ever experienced any willingness to reward any employee that much ever, because this could mean, that a simple machine worker would make more a year than the CEO does, and that seems to be out of question in the given system. This isn't logical at all, but this is the way it is.
And third is the underestimation of the intelligence of the employees. To often is assumed, that 'they' will be just fine and happy if you give them some 'small crumb' of the cake the employer just got - but this is a false conclusion! And because of this fine senses of just being 'ripped off', hundreds of valuable ideas will never be named and spoken, as why should an 'employee' care about the 'losses' his employer makes? This isn't logical as well, but the way it usually is...Aug 12 2013: well, my sense is that the people who can afford it are the people who work the hardest, thus they do deserve it.
I don't know much about auto executives, Lejan .. My sense is that many or most have risen through the ranks and do in fact know the nuts and bolts of car assembly, car design, and so on. But also we must note that producing a Rolls-Royce is not only about assembly, there are a million tasks, there are the materials buyers, there is the choice and purchasing of assembly equipment, there are employee relations, there is hiring, there is publicity and advertising, there is organizing of labor, delegation of tasks. I would say executives are involved with all these fields and have specialized knowledge of some of them that the average assembly line worker does not have. And they are difficult, the company largely rises or falls on how well they are done.
Your take on what happens with employee ideas is a little pessimistic, I think. First off, isn't it rare that a low-level employee produces an idea that saves a company a million dollars a year?Aug 12 2013: Lejan ., you might be interested in a kind of decision-making I encountered at a dormitory at Stanford called consensus decision-making. Consensus decision-making means that when a group makes a decision they keep working and reworking the decision until everybody agrees with it. Thus in a dorm of 60 people they will keep discussing any decision the dorm has to make until all 60 agree with the decision. Sometimes this goes very quickly, sometimes takes longer, but it is stronger than one person/one vote, because in that system 31 people could be happy with a decision, and 29 unhappy, under consensus all 60 are happy.
By the way, if you are unhappy with the way companies operate, why don't you emulate the Masai and get yourself a dairy farm and be self-sufficient, then you won't have to deal with the company structure you dislike.
Aug 12 2013: Thats what I am doing, Greg, building my own 'dairy farm'. And consensus decision-making is even better!Aug 11 2013: One of the outcomes of the 'American Civil War' was, that no one was allowed by law, to have slaves.
So why don't we just make a law, that no one is allowed to have employees?
This way, democracy@work would not just be a rare option, it became the rule. And wouldn't the majority of the people benefit from that? I think, they would!
And as we did manage to install democracy for our political systems, we may make good use of it next time and for us, as that is what democracy stands for, doesn't it?
Aug 12 2013: and what is the dairy farm, Lejan ., a business of your own, or literally a dairy? Personally I would like to have a few cows, but I feel stopped by not having a wife, I believe that the Masai consider that having a spouse, being married, is essential to having cattle. For example, if I need to go into town for supplies, who is going to watch the cows? Or if I am too tired to milk them at the end of the day, who will milk? If you are creating a business, it might not hurt to be married, are you married or have you been?
Aug 12 2013: No, I am not married and never have been, which, as you say, makes things a bit more complicated. At the moment I am freeing myself from as many dependencies as possible while reducing my standard of living to a more self-sustainable level. At the right place, which I haven't found yet, and which will most likely not be in Germany, I am planning for a small farm like place which will allow me to produce anything I need for myself,including food, water and energy supply. So far I have not enough capital to get the project started and I am also recovering still from a medical condition I had some while ago. So once I am back on track, things hopefully turn out the way I imagine them.Aug 14 2013: Lejan ., realize that consensus decision-making is quite different from giving everyone at a company an equal vote. Let us say a company has 60 employees. 40 are laboring class, 20 are executives. If the company has to make a decision by a straight vote, the 40 may vote and constitute a majority and win the vote, but then the 20 will be unhappy. Under consensus, there is no vote, the group as a whole continues working on the decision until all 60 can agree with the final decision. This process may take five minutes, or it may take five days. In this process people who know more about the matter at hand will probably have more influence, but they can't control the process through the sheer numbers of the vote, everyone will get to have input into the decision, perhaps the people who don't know as much about the topic still have important points to make that will affect the final decision, ultimately all 60 must agree with the decision.
Aug 14 2013: Consensus decision-making can work fine in five minutes, as you say, but it can also lead into recursive infinite discussion loops with paralyzing results. Depending on a given subject, there is often and simply just not the time for 'infinity', especially on urgent matters, so a combination of democratic and consensus decisions would probably form practically.
And if I had to choose, I rather go for a happy majority, than just a view happy individuals in cases a consensus can not be found or not be found fast enough than a situation demands it.
'People who know more about the matter at hand will probably have more influence'. Of course, yet to the extend of 'giving input' and to 'inform' all the others. And if this 'knowledge' makes sense, it then will have its influence. Knowledge becomes only an instrument of domination if its kept secret in 'ruling circles', yet if openly shared, it becomes an instrument of empowerment to make decisions of which more people could agree and benefit from. In terms of a positive evolution of societies over time, this is what I consider to step forward.
Of course there is no guarantee that those decisions are always better. But if they not turn out as intended, expected or hoped, the acceptance of unfavorable consequences however, will be carried differently if one had a say in them. Because this way people are enabled to learn from their mistakes, and are not doomed to just endure the mistakes of a view other... which, to often and miraculously, manage to escape the downsides of their failures...Aug 15 2013: Thanks, Lejan .. I don't know, I've only used it (consensus) in family decision-making, and it never seems to lead to paralysis, it seems like everyone emerges from it happier. I tend to think it would not lead to paralysis as long as eveyone has good will and wants to advance the aims of the group and group members.
I think sometimes people don't withhold information to be secretive or dominating, they only do it because it takes time to share information, and they may have greater priorities for their time, and also it takes effort to share information, and people may not want to go to that effort if they don't think the other person will put the information to good use.


text:
On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 at 9:20 pm, officers of the Santa Clara Police Department responded to a robbery at the Aquamaids Bingo Hall, 1600 Martin Avenue. Upon arrival, officers learned that two suspects walked into the bingo hall during a session of bingo. One of the suspects, who was armed with a handgun, approached an employee working at the bingo hall and demanded money. The employee handed over money to the suspect. The suspect then fled. Officers responding to the call stopped two vehicles in connection with the robbery. Officers found evidence inside each vehicle linking them to the robbery at the bingo hall. Daniels, Delgado, Markus and Egu were arrested and taken to the Santa Clara Police Department.
Police Detectives were called in to assist with the investigation. The Detectives identified a fifth suspect, Christopher Jones, who also took part in the robbery. On March 6, 2014 at about 7:20 am, the Santa Clara Police Department Special Response Team served a search warrant at Jones' residence in San Jose. Jones was found inside the residence with a loaded handgun and was arrested without incident. Detectives continued their investigation and learned that the same suspects were also responsible for a previous robbery at Aquamaids on February 19, 2014. In that robbery, a 78-year-old female was struck on her head with a handgun and robbed of her money. Detectives are also investigating the possibility that these suspects could be responsible for other robberies.
All suspects were booked into the Santa Clara County Main Jail on robbery and conspiracy charges. Anyone with information, please call Sergeant Hoesing at (408) 615-4814.
Lieutenant Kurt Clarke
Santa Clara Police Department
601 El Camino Real, Santa Clara, CA 95050 (408) 615-4865 Fax: (408) 296-1346
The City of Santa Clara is not responsible for the content of external sites.
Thank you for visiting the City of Santa Clara website.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
The ILC Citizens' Task Force provides guidance and advice to Fermilab to ensure that community concerns and ideas are included in all public aspects of ILC planning and design.
The Task Force is expected to work as a consensus body, seeking as broad and complete agreement as is feasible on the issues it addresses. In cases where agreement cannot be reached, minority opinions will be captured to ensure that a full range of community perspectives are considered by the laboratory in its final decision-making. Committees may be developed if more detailed dialogue or research is desired by members and as a way to engage additional community interests.
The Task Force facilitator supports the group to make sure it has the information it requires and that all voices are heard. Fermilab is committed to providing complete and transparent information on all aspects of ILC planning and design and to provide whatever technical support the Task Force requires in order to conduct its deliberations.
Three types of input are expected to be produced by the Task Force:
1) Informal input. On some issues, no formal recommendations will be expected. However the Task Force will be asked to provide feedback and reactions as part of overall discussion of the topic.
2) Compilation of community issues and concerns. Many topics will be aided by understanding broad community perspectives. Task Force members will be asked to engage with their neighbors and other members of the community in dialogue about the ILC and to bring those concerns and issues to the Task Force dialogue.
3) Formal recommendations. In a number of cases, ILC decision-making will be greatly aided by formal consensus-based recommendations from the Task Force.


text:
On my project list was a drill press to finish home made PCB's.
I found a vintage hobby microscope that is perfect for the job.
Then I bought a rotary tool at Harbor Freight for 7 dollars.
The tool fits very snugly inside a short piece of 1 1/4 PVC sch40 that is modified to replace the original eyepiece.
The base is 4in square. The throat depth is almost 3 inches.
There is no return spring, but the rack and pinion gives plenty of control for drilling.
No mods to the tool are necessary.
But...I couldn't help myself.
The wallwart supplied has a 12v output with barely enough current to turn the motor.
I Googled the motor Part# and found it rated for 24v.
I now run it from an 18v 5A power supply and the performance is more than adequate for the job.
I also added a PWM motor speed controller (that little circuit board on the table).
Works great.
You might get really lucky and find an old microscope at Goodwill, but first I would raid my kid's toy box.
Raid your neighbor's toy box, too.
I have the same rotary tool, I measured the "12v" wall adapter and found it puts out just over 19v. Just in case you're curious. :)
See the new improved Micro Drill Press revision A at:
I solved the problems of using a cheap rotary tool.
I would first like to say that this is a great instructable. I really like the PVC tool holder. The only problem that I see is the cheap rotary tool.
Do you find there is a lot of runout on the spindle? I have previously purchased one of these tools and cannot say much for it at all. My spindle had about .040" runout...
Hiya marky1979
Sorry I haven't been able to reply to comments. Lately I've been using public computers to get online.
I agree that tools made in China are mostly pieces of sh!t. Caveat Emptor.
This cheap rotary tool will work okay IF center marks are pressed into the board before drilling. The bit will find the center and drill without wandering. On my micro drill the runout & slop became unacceptable after just a few months.
So I have updated the drill press to Revision B:
I replaced the rotary tool with a bare 18v DC motor (30,000 rpm!!!) from a cordless drill motor.
I fabricated a new motor mount.
I installed a new collet style chuck.
I extended the control knob shaft.
The drill press now works better than ever (and just a little noisier).
I'm going to update the original Instructable with modifications & pictures, but it may be a little while until I can post it.
This has been one of my favorite tools. It has always worked great, so I spent the time and energy to make a good tool better.
These little DC motors use a LOT of current. At no-load the tool uses way less than an amp, but under load the current goes up fast. Three amps should be more than the motor's stall current (my guesstimate). Five amps will give the power supply a little cushion.
Or...buy a switcher on EBay. They got a lot to choose from for under $20.
Add this LM324 PWM speed controller to feed the motor.
thanks but its not quite genius.
engineers call it elegant simplicity.
Could it be 'The Tingle"?
Be proud of your craft. The students coming out of college (with degrees) can barely tie their own shoelaces.
take care
Since I'm just the curious kinda guy, I scanned your profile. Join date is TODAY!
I'm your first hit. What an honor.
Welcome aboard. This is a fun website, many things to learn.
Create some 'thing', post it, & have a blast.
PS This is the first instructable I published
It looked so good that I published on instructables the next day.
I just got my own joke!
I named this thing a 'micro' drill press cuz it's smaller than a 'mini' drill press.
Now the full name should be 'Microscope Drill Press'.
Huh? Huh?
Never mind
BTW, you're on Hack a Day ;)
On hackaday, too?
Wow, I feel like such a celebrity after just one day. Thank you very much.
I built this thing over a year ago. I use it a lot and have never been disappointed.
At the time I was looking to make a PCB drill press, the only solutions I liked (posted online) involved hinges, springs, expensive components, or some other Rube Goldberg technology.
I will say this (pardon me for not being humble). This is the best DIY PCB drill press I have ever seen.
Just an idea, but if you find the PVC to loos, you could use circlips to hold the drill on.
It seemed like a fluke when i found that microscope just when i needed a precision drill press.
This thing works so great you would not believe.
So when you find a cache of a million surplus microscopes for sale you'll let me know, right?
seeya later, partner


text:
There is a new unpatched memory corruption flaw in the latest version of Firefox. What this means is that hackers could drop malware onto vulnerable systems.
Chances are this will be fixed sooner, rather than later – here is a little more about the story from The Register:
Security notification firm Secunia reports that the security bug (which it describes as extremely critical) stems from errors in handling JavaScript code. The flaw has been confirmed in the latest 3.5 version of Firefox, released in late June.
Older versions of the popular alternative browser might also be affected, Secunia warns.
Exploit code has been uploaded onto recently revived security exploit website milw0rm, a factor that could hasten the development of more attack code.
Secunia advises Firefox users to avoid browsing untrusted websites or following untrusted links pending the availability of a fix from Mozilla (there's nothing in the pipeline just yet).
Best advice I can give to you is to browse safely, don't go to web sites you don't trust, and be sure to keep your security programs up to date.
Found this via Mashable:
Until Mozilla addresses this vulnerability, here's a temporary fix: Type about:config in Firefox address bar, and set "javascript.options.jit.content" to "false."
So there is your fix for now. Thanks to everybody who sent this in!
This problem was fixed in Firefox 3.5.1, so the above hack from Mashable is no longer needed. To check for updates, be sure to go to Help > "Check for Updates…" in Firefox.


text:
This conversation is closed.
Black holes are not due to exploding stars, but rather due to spin.
Black holes spin into existence and position!
Black holes are not due to exploding stars.
From what science claims, black holes are created by massive stars exploding or imploding. i see it as the spinning motion of our galaxy at approx 600,000 mph and the spin of each celestial body that spins and rotates around each other inside the galaxy, setting up the spinning vortex we call black holes, at least that's how I see it. Science has claimed black holes are due to massive stars exploding or imploding and these largest of stars all just happen to be in te exact middle of each galaxy? How funny.
Mar 23 2013: This doesn't seem like a discussion? It all seems kinda one sided here?
Mar 23 2013: If other people rebutt what I've said, it will be called a debate,--discussion or they might agree, with addition, right? I offer a hypothesis and other people add or refute what's said.
Discussion don't just appear from nowhere.
Mar 23 2013: Ok well this is one of your hypothesis
"Our galaxy spins at about 600,000 mph. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I say that spinning creates friction on all the celestial bodies in each galaxy and that's what creates the spinning vortex, known as a black hole. If not, what is the opposing reaction of our galaxies 600,000 mph spin?"
And my answer is that it would create gravity/dark matter and you have yet tell me how it wouldn't
Mar 23 2013: I'm not sure I agree with that Casey I think the spinning is more from the gravity of objects near each other the energy release is one object moving faster one moving slower?
"friction" is energy released as heat or electric energy like lightning from water and air molecules rubbingMar 23 2013: But every time someone says something you just say there cut and pasting? Im still not clear on your views? I get the topic but your also implying your a creationist theory person and if you are there is no debate because everything is how he wanted it
Mar 24 2013: I don't believe in religion, so what are you going to blame it on now?Mar 24 2013: Your ignorance, as a person that's what I am going to blame it on.... Prove me wrong Jim show me you can have a debate without name callingMar 24 2013: Gotta love people that think mediocracy is a good thing. They talk about what everyone else talks about. Mediocrity it seems is a perfect fit for most websites. They get plenty of hits, that drives the money train and who doesn't love that. As to anyone different, don't worry, we'll send in the hounds to chase them away or as so many sites, there are those that have nothing of their own, so they take it upon themselves to chase off any that don't fit. We can't have any that make others feel as if their schools did a bad job of teaching.
The flat earth society is working hard, just as childish cliques in schools.
Mediocrity is the flat earth society.Mar 24 2013: Jim I think you smoke to much crack
Once again please engage me in a debate of knowledge
It is you who are acting like a child while me and Daniel are actually having a conversationMar 24 2013: Schools do a horrible job at educating are youth.
What they teach is regurgitation not an education
But what the heck does that have to do with this conversation?Mar 24 2013: Right which is also how we measure gravity. Law of Universal Gravitation to calculate the mass of the Earth.
But if you took up the equivalent of the mass of earth up in to outer space, say to build a death star, the death star would be "weightless" in outer space? Right? And then if it did have mass it would depend on the closest star or planet to it not its weight that it had here on earth so it would not be a "constant"Mar 23 2013: Daniel, that's was part of the longer conversation that I was having with Jim to quote myself this is what I said
Just like the spinning of the earth creates gravity here on earth, the spin of the galaxy as well as the celestial body's it is made up of create dark matter(edited gravity/dark matter)
See below
Mar 24 2013: but its not the spinning that creates the gravity? its the mass of all the atoms from the surface of where your standing to the core but the spinning is canceling some of that out or you would weigh more than you do that is the centrifuge forceMar 24 2013: Right but mass is a tricking thing because when you go into outer space where are planets are we have no mass. Does that mean the planets don't have mass either?
Mar 24 2013: there mass is calculated by the pull they have on there closest starMar 23 2013: That's because it seems to me that Jim wants to use some sort of old science, which I am not sure what that means.
Maybe we should stop teaching the kids the world is "round"-ish and go back to that is flat. Although based on perception and view point one could argue that the world it both round and flat ....dualism at its finest
Mar 24 2013: A stalker like yourself is someone that has nothing of his own, so he tries to make anyone he can't keep up with, the object of your stalking.
Mar 24 2013: What are you talking about, It is that you like to think you are a know it all, but in reality you try to bully people into your veiw's. Why don't you try actually debating me instead you want to do some childish name calling.
But see you can call me all the names you want I am a big boy. Specially since you certainly can't prove that you are smarter then me. So you can attack me all you want but what would be really cool it if you actually debate me.
So I challenge you to prove you are smarter then me
gale kooser
- +1
Mar 20 2013: By what you write or offer, shall you be known, just as all of us. What you leave tells all of how you were taught and what you were taught. So far, you offer cut and paste. What does your mind have to offer, I want to speak to you, not to some nameless, faceless, web site. The least you could do is condense down what you believe you can DEFEND, please.
I write science according to logic. I love strong debate and respect.
If you can refute what I write, I'd appreciate it.
Have a wonderful day Gale
JimMar 26 2013: I've researched everything I speak of a lot, but thanks for your input Toine.Mar 26 2013: Sorry for the new comment couldn't reply anymore on yours.
But I am not coming with the existence of dark matter but the theory. They have already simulated all the right conditions for a galaxy (including rotation speed and the guessed gravitational force of the black hole) and the galaxy fell apart.
But by adding some sort of new element into the field they describe as dark matter.
The galaxy did not fell apart so this already concludes that rotation speed does not hold it together (to current simulations) if the current simulations are wrong and they conclude rotation speed is the birth of blacl holes then so be it but the theory of it being dark matter in this case will last for some time until they prove otherwise.
(Dark matter is not the same as dark energy)Mar 26 2013: How interesting your theory seems but how would the first black hole have gotten into existence or let's say the very first 1.000.000.000 ?? According to the big bang theory nearly what's it now 300.000 years after the first galaxies started to form. Its a chaos but a perfect chaos to sustain galaxies and so forth.
To think they spin into existence then what happens to just 1 mile outside of a galaxy there should be some force or something too according to your theory.
So I find spinning into existence highly unlikely. This would mean that the spinning force let's space and time collapse....
The power of an exploding star with a gigantic burst of pure energy is capable according to theories
Spinning creates something magnetic... But since there is little or no friction in space this is unlikely
Mar 26 2013: I don't ascribe to the Big Bang theory. I can't tell you how the first anything came about. According to all we see, the planets and suns could not have come together as they are. Each planet and suns atmosphere extend far out into space, but as long as our earth spins, we will have an atmosphere. However unlikely, spinning gravity is all that's holding our galaxy together.
Mar 26 2013: I quote from you ''however unlikely, spinning gravity is all that's holding our galaxy together''
Now there is already proof that your spinning gravity isn't holding together galaxies but its dark matter.
And how does spinning works in sphere like galaxies? Those aren't discs focused specificly on 1 line by spinning.
So this concludes already that dark matter is the thing that holds galaxies together who would otherwise even with spinning gravity fall apart (calculated with supercomputers)
Mar 26 2013: Show proof of dark matter and then proof of how it holds the galaxy together.Mar 24 2013: ???? and if you don't understand that there is more of this !!!!!!!!!!! ok im done with this topic
Mar 24 2013: Oh my doodness, I'm all a twitter, don't keep us in suspense and don't be bitter.Mar 24 2013: I see part of the problem in your thinking at least about your original topic the black "holes" aren't created from the "explosion" or "implosion" but from the core of the sun that is left after the super nova and the gravitational forces from that core is so strong it even pulls in the photons of " light" from other stars which gives the impression of a black hole
Mar 24 2013: Yo moma
Black holes spin into existence and position!
Black holes are not due to exploding stars.
From what science claims, black holes are created by massive stars exploding or imploding. i see it as the spinning motion of our galaxy at approx 600,000 mph and the spin of each celestial body that spins and rotates around each other inside the galaxy, setting up the spinning vortex we call black holes, at least that's how I see it. Science has claimed black holes are due to massive stars exploding or imploding and these largest of stars all just happen to be in te exact middle of each galaxy? How funny.
Mar 24 2013: can you show me any article where is says that they spin "into" existence I have done a lot of reading and never heard of them coming to be in that context?
question? in your theory is the vortex spinning inward or outward?
and if its spinning inward where is the matter that is going inward going?
Mar 24 2013: Go play hide the weenie so to speak, with someone else, just like yourself.Mar 23 2013: Well as far as I know most things are dualistic in nature, so most likely the cause is the bang, the effect is the spin
Also there is nothing exact in science, that actual the basic axiom of science
Mar 23 2013: Does science portray gravity as dualistic?
So you're saying that 1+1 is not exact. Is math not a science and a part of many other sciences?
Mar 23 2013: Yes we call it dark matter now
and your 1+1 easily be x+x or arbitrary + arbitrary
Math is science I guess but your talking to the wrong person about number, I/we already got rid of them in nature
And then brought them back in
Mar 23 2013: 1+1 cannot be changed as you and science claim, nor is it dualistic . We weren't discussing x+x et al. If you want to change the subject, make a different post, unless you have a very short attention span.
You and from what you claim, science, claim there is nothing exact in science. 1+1 is exact. That means science is teaching stupidity to children.
You nor science can prove dark matter exists and you didn't answer if gravity was dualistic.
Gosh, all you did was change the meaning of all that I replied to.
I'm not interested in such.Mar 23 2013: Also 1+1 takes on the assumption of a "whole" or complete, yet science say's in any whole object there is more that is not there then there is that is thereMar 23 2013: Please show me 2 of the same thing, you simple can't everything is an individual representation of what is that one thing.
Do you know about Quantum Physics?Mar 23 2013: Ok you know you are spinning on a rock in space right? please show me were and how that is rational, I think you might have a few thing confused, also you brought up the 1+1 not me.
And I will tell you how gravity and dark matter create a dualism.
You seem to change topics alot
I thought we were talking about black hole want to go back to that topic not gravity or 1+1
Mar 23 2013: Show how gravity is dualistic.Mar 23 2013: I am assuming that you are talking about how gravity and dark matter are one in the same, and yet separate?
Just like the spinning of the earth creates gravity here on earth, the spin of the galaxy as well as the celestial body's it is made up of create dark matter.
edited: dark matter/space gravity
Mar 23 2013: Noooo, I simply asked you to explain how gravity is dualistic.Mar 23 2013: It with in it self as dualism?
Mar 23 2013: Sure, whatever your delusion of the moment is.Mar 23 2013: My delusion of the moment is currently trying to figure out how it makes rational sense that we are on a flying rock in space, and everyone seems to be ok with that.
As far as Gravity as dualism my assertions were at least in the conversation that it gravity and dark matter were and are one in the same. And I think I showed that just how the spinning of the earth creates gravity, so to would the spinning of the galaxy.
Oh and just for the record you are making a strawman fallacy, but don't worry I am big boy
Mar 23 2013: Keep telling yourself whatever. I'm not interested in anything you have to say, go bother someone else.Mar 23 2013: Ok strawmanMar 23 2013: I read a great deal that science offers, but I see so many dichotomies, like red shift ---blue shift, that make no sense. I challenge to find at the least, more accuracy, if not better explanations. Radicals come about because of so much in attention to detail and outright ignorant claims. Red shift ---blue shift is sooo stupid and yet, evolutionists in the name of science, destroy children's thinking by such.Mar 23 2013: If you are more than cut and paste, tell us what you find as remarkable on the following web page.
This is why science fails people--especially children and people fail science.
http://www.scienceterrific.com/atmosphere_composition.phpMar 23 2013: The reply button doesn't show up a lot of times.
Mar 23 2013: Go to the the closest reply in the down stream line conversation
Whoever those comments are for will never get themMar 23 2013: The spinning and gravity are the cause and effect? Please explain spinning and gravity?
That is why the air is in the air? Please explain.
Just tell us about those 2 first.Mar 23 2013: If you think about it a "black" hole"" is just a matter of perspective? Because we just dont know what is causing it. The term "black hole" is an archaic term for black area of space. From what your thinking that the spinning is like a vortex then you have to explain where is the matter "going"? If its not going then that means it is building up in the middle of the vortex and if it is than what is there that is big enough to start the vortex and there is only 1 thing with that much gravitational pull the core of a sun. but what they are talking about with the super size "black holes" is many cores that have joined into 1 bigger there is a good and insightful show to watch from the discovery channel called How The universe Works dont know if any of this helps but thought I would post something
Mar 23 2013: You write what I defend and that is,-------- waaaay to much of today's so called science, is supposition. It's sooo irresponsible to teach this trash to children, while the troglodytes leading science, demand that children copy and paste all this crap, becoming forever confused, conflicted and ignorant, as to the true nature of science.
There are people on other science websites that work together as a clique of bullies, attacking any that dare show the weaknesses in all the crap supposition, science has been drilling into children's heads for years now. They are all as deceitful as the day is long, as the twist, turn attach and defend as a childish clique, with the most viscous of name calling and worse.
Where do you think these people learned to act like this, if not in our schools?
This site is sooo much nicer
Maybe I should tell you how I really feel. :-)Mar 21 2013: Addendum to my topic starter.
Science claims that a super massive star exploded at the center of every galaxy. Wow, talk about coincidence!
If we consider a whirlpool in water, we could think of a whirlpool of air, created by each galaxy that according to science, is spinning at great speeds.
Our galaxy is spinning at about 594,000 miles per hour. Then we have every celestial body inside the galaxy, spinning and rotating around each other.
The spinning galaxy must create a swirling vortex of air that would naturally focus at the center of the galaxy, as the spinning creates friction across all the celestial bodies in that galaxy, which would become a black hole, unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Thank you
Faisel Butt
Mar 22 2013: Hi Jim
- +1
I don't know if it is intentional, but you deliver centuries of astronomic observations in a rather sarcastic manner.
Due to the gravitational pull and the laws of motion it is natural for galaxies to form around massive stars. When they die, they collapse to form black holes. It is not a coincidence.
If there was air in the galaxy and this was caused because of friction, the galaxy would look very different. The earth wouldn't exist if it was moving through air, as the friction would cause a lot of damage in the same way that meteors burn when they enter our atmosphere.
Apart from that, if black holes spin into existence, what is it exactly that spins? And what causes that angular momentum? And how would that in any way cause an attractive force?
I suggest you read about Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's general theory of relativity as they explain the motion and forces of celestial bodies very precise. These theories have been tested and are consistent with our observations.
Mar 22 2013: I am sarcastic because because evolution makes so many claims, that I see as dumbing down children and confusing them. Red shift, blue shift, the many changing faces of the big bang, speed of light theory, gravity and on and on.
How far out does earths atmosphere go and since our planet is spinning at 1,000 mph, do you really think that spinning creates no reaction?
Our galaxy spins at about 600,000 mph. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I say that spinning creates friction on all the celestial bodies in each galaxy and that's what creates the spinning vortex, known as a black hole. If not, what is the opposing reaction of our galaxies 600,000 mph spin?
You believe whatever your told, while I challenge. Answer the question above, that science doesn't bother with. Spin is in every living thing, in every celestial body and tell us, what does science explain as the reaction of spin in everyone and thing?
Mar 23 2013: The spinning and gravity is the cause and effect. That is why the air is in the "air" the gravity of our core has less pull on those molecules and the spinning of the core is what caused the elements to separate into layers from the core outwards. And as far as what you refer to as our planet is spinning at 1000mph is more a matter of perspective.meaning distance traveled or RPM and even when you think about the rpm that is factored by surface tension of all the particles from the core to the outer most particles of our atmosphereMar 23 2013: Hi Jim
First of all, what does evolution have to do with any of this?
You seem to have completely misunderstood basic science, the scientific method and how scientific discoveries come about.
Science has made many discoveries and we have many models to describe how the world works. Just because you find them confusing, complex or counter intuitive doesn't change the fact that they have been tested and are in compliance with observations.
Before you reject the work of people that have dedicated their lives to understanding the world we live in, at least have the common decency to understand what it is.
Quote: "You believe whatever your told, while I challenge."
You are not in a position to make a statement about what I believe; and you haven't challenged a thing. All your arguments are based on your limited experience on this earth. There is air on earth, therefore you think it is everywhere in the universe.
By the way how do you know how fast the earth and the galaxy is spinning? You only know this because that's what you've been told.
I could refute most of your ideas only using logic, but it would probably be a waste of my time, as I imagine debating with you would be like debating with a stubborn 6 year old, who thinks he knows everything.Mar 23 2013: Actually every speed calculation is based on the assumption that we are traveling in a circle instead of an ellipse.
Since we are traveling in a ellipse it is impossible to calculate as a constant because it is always changingMar 23 2013: Also since we are talking about evolution please tell me how the birth of a child is not evolution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhoU4y0Jt04Mar 23 2013: You like most all evolutionists resort to childish insinuations, instead of refuting what has been said. Move on Faisal.Mar 23 2013: Many call me know it all. Jealousy becomes you Faisal.
You can't logically refute what I write, so you resort to childish insinuations. You like so many were taught very poorly. Science does a horrible job of teaching. You're not to blame Faisal, you are just a product of such a poor education.Mar 23 2013: 5 minutes ago: If you are more than cut and paste, tell us what you find as remarkable on the following web page.
This is why science fails people--especially children and people fail science.
http://www.scienceterrific.com/atmosphere_composition.phpMar 23 2013: Then show us where science bases its calculations on circles instead of ellipses. Science claims we are moving around the sun in an elliptical orbit. It seems you've been reading different science books or articles.
Mar 26 2013: Mate, you are way out of line.
I would gladly debate, if there was anything to debate and if you had some grasp of the concept of logic and rational thought. Putting an exclamation mark after a claim is not an argument.
I understand that you've had some poor teachers in the past, but that is no excuse for being ignorant, arrogant and delusional.
However, there is a forum for people who believe the earth is flat. I think you'll find like minded people there.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/Mar 26 2013: When you can refute what's written, let me know. So far all ya got is childish innuendo.Mar 20 2013: How do I get myself into stuff like this?
I am NOT a scientist but I am a student of all things scientific, including biology & astronomy.
I have read a lot of articles on black holes and their locations, sizes and possible origins. It has even been suspected that the edge of a tiny black hole once brushed against a section of Russia many yrs. ago. It flatten a huge section of forest which has yet to regrow.
I really can not get into a debate with you about this subject for I am just a lay person.
Jim Ryan
Mar 20 2013: Hi Gale, glad you wrote back. I too am a student of all things that interest me. I've been reading, researching and writing about science for about 5 years now, but on a different site. In a way the site was horrible, in that it brought out the worst in me, but in another way, it made me want to push back against a group that acted like a childish clique. I was always reading and researching, trying to stay a couple of steps ahead of them.
- +1
At first, I joined in, just because they were bullies and I have always fought back against bullies, partly from being bullied at a young age and partly on behalf of others that were too afraid to fight back. Maybe they were just smart for not fighting back. Lol
Somehow in all that mess I got really interested in science and here I am. I did quite a lot of research on black holes. Keep reading and writing Gale. One thing Gale, MOST every time before I write something or as I'm writing something new, I do my homework first and while I read carefully, I also consider very hard, what is NOT being said. Most times, what's not being said is far more important and no detail should go unchallenged, for it is in the smallest of detail, that we find the largest rewards.
Have fun Gale
gale kooser
Mar 21 2013: I'll bet you are a far younger student then I. I happen to be 68 yrs. old & seen & studied on a lot of subjects including on how to get along in life with others. You don't need to stay several steps ahead of folks Jim, you just need to see what they see through their eyes. It may not be the same view you have but their view is just as important to them as yours is to you.
- +1
As for Black Holes: Most is theory but darn good theory at that.
Depending on how you challenge someone, can bring great rewards or disaster.
You speak of small details & their rewards- so see & hear those same details in others too.
Ever hear of K.I.S.S.? Keep it simple stupid! I am NOT calling you or anyone stupid, it's just a way to do things and interact with others.
Mar 21 2013: I'm sure you're right.Mar 20 2013: Not all black holes are in the center of galaxies, most are located in various areas throughout any given galaxy.
Mar 20 2013: Please bring evidence of your claim, because I've only heard they were at the center of each galaxy.
Thank you
Mar 20 2013: It is suspected that a massive one is at the heart of each galaxy but there are also many million of them throughout that same galaxy.
Mar 20 2013: Gale, are you saying there is more than one black hole in a galaxy? If so, what evidence do you have to support this?Mar 20 2013: There is always an exception to every rule.
Supermassive black hole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/.../Supermassive_black_ ...It is now widely accepted that the center of nearly every galaxy contains a supermassive black hole.


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Rob Kearney talks to Damien O'Meara about the Lions squad and the Rabo Pro 12 finale.
Rob Kearney, Robbie Henshaw, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray and Peter O'Mahony have all been named in the Ireland te
Cork hurling manager Jimmy Barry-Murphy has not made a decision yet as to whether he intends to be at the helm in 2
Ireland's cricketers will be hoping that the weather will not intervene when they face the world champions Australi
Jack McGrath is expecting a much more intense match with Wales this Saturday as Ireland continue their preparations
Les Kiss has admitted the clock is ticking on Cian Healy's battle for Rugby World Cup fitness.
Ciarán Whelan, Colm O'Rourke and Joe Brolly assess Kerry's four-point win over Tyrone.


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1 Answer | Add Yours
After World War II, one of six workers was employed in the automobile industry, whether directly or indirectly. At the beginning of the 1950's there were 25 million automobiles, although many were dilapidated and not functioning since during the war with all manufacturing focused upon production of military materials there were no parts available to civilians. By the end of the year 1950, however, there were 8 million automobiles produced. Then, by the end of 1958, 67 million automobiles that were registered. The average cost of a car at this time was around $1500.00.
With the emergence of a strong middle-class in America, there was the burgeoning of suburbs across the country. People purchased automobiles as the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways was constructed, allowing access to other parts of the country. Drive-in eateries, drive-in movie theaters, and other amusements were available involving cars, such as drag-racing, hotrod racing, car shows, stock car racing (NASCAR), demolition derbies, etc. gave rise to a car culture.
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June 21, 2011 -- Graphic images such as lifeless bodies, surgical scars, and diseased lungs are among nine new warning labels unveiled by the FDA that the agency says must appear on all cigarette packaging and advertisements by September 2012.
The FDA says in a statement on its web site that the warnings, a new effort to get people to quit smoking, represent the most significant changes to cigarette labels in more than 25 years and will affect everything from packaging to advertisements.
The agency says all Americans understand the dangers of smoking and the new labels are intended to prevent children from starting and induce smokers to quit.
One image shows a dead man with a surgical wound on his chest. Another picture shows a close-up of a person's mouth full of brown, rotting teeth and a lip with an open sore. Still another picture depicts a man with a breathing apparatus over his mouth and nose. And another image shows a sick baby, crying in an incubator.
Written Warnings
Each grim image is accompanied by written warnings such as "cigarettes cause cancer," "smoking during pregnancy can harm your baby," "cigarettes are addictive," and "tobacco smoke can harm your children."
The warnings, first proposed in November 2010, were required under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act that was passed in Congress and signed into law by President Obama on June 22, 2009.
The FDA chose the nine images to be used from 36 that were originally proposed.
Come September 2012, all cigarettes manufactured for sale or distribution in the U.S. must include the new graphic images and warnings on packaging.
The FDA says the warnings are expected to have a significant impact on public health by decreasing the number of smokers, which it says will result in lives saved, increased life expectancy, and better health.
Encouraging Smokers to Quit
"President Obama is committed to protecting our nation's children and the American people from the dangers of tobacco use," U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says in the FDA news release. "These labels are frank, honest and powerful depictions of the health risks of smoking and they will help encourage smokers to quit and prevent children from smoking."
She says the president "wants to make tobacco-related death and disease part of the nation's past and not our future."
Tobacco use is the leading cause of premature and preventable death in the U.S. and is responsible for 443,000 deaths annually, the FDA says. And smoking costs the U.S. economy $200 billion in medical costs and lost productivity annually, according to the FDA.
Each warning will be accompanied by a smoking-cessation hotline, 800-QUIT-NOW, which may increase the likelihood that smokers who want to give up the habit will be successful.
FDA Commissioner Margaret A. Hamburg, MD, says in the news release that the agency is required to provide current and potential smokers with "clear and truthful information" about smoking risks and adds that the new "warnings do that."
Images Stronger Than Words
Nancy Brown, CEO of the American Heart Association, says in a news release that the new labels will provide "the momentum needed to eradicate tobacco use in our nation."
The warnings will be more effective than those in the past because of their graphic, frightening nature, she suggests. She also says about a third of smoking-related deaths in the U.S. are linked to heart disease and stroke, and that secondhand smoke kills 49,000 people a year.
The American Lung Association says in its news release that the graphic labels "will appear on the top 50% of the front and back" of all cigarette packs.
"While the graphic images displayed on the new warning labels may be disturbing to some, the World Health Organization has concluded that health warnings on tobacco packages increase smokers' awareness of their risk."
The American Lung Association says the use of graphic depictions of disease "has greater impact than words alone."
The FDA action comes at a time when federal authorities say the percentage of Americans who smoke has dropped to 20% from nearly 40% since 1970. The FDA predicts the new labels will reduce the number of smokers by 213,000 in 2013.
The new images can be viewed on the FDA web site.
What do you think of the new images for cigarette packs? Vote in WebMD's poll and leave your comments.


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|Men's Cross Country » News » Schedule » Roster » Coaches » Statistics
2012 Cross Country: Competed in four meets ... placed among the top-50 in three events including a season-high finish of 18th at the Atlantic Sun Championships.
2011 Cross Country: Was one of three Bucs to finish in the top-20 at the conference meet … finished 20th at the A-Sun Championship with a time of 26:07.51.
2011 Indoor: Atlantic Sun Champion in the 800m, while also named all-conference after running legs in the DMR and 4x400m, which both finished third overall … competed in seven meets for the Blue and Gold.
2010 Cross Country: Race in all five meets as a freshman … recorded a top-20 finish at the Upstate Invitational and placed 28th at the A-Sun Championships in Spartanburg.
2012-13 Men's Cross Country


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|3 years ago :: Jun 05, 2012 - 11:02PM #1
When activist Maria Gunnoe found that the water coming into her West Virginia house was polluted with run-off from the coal companies, she went to Washington, D.C. to testify at an oversight hearing of the House Committee on Natural Resources, subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources.
A journalist, Aaron Brady, wrote about what happened at that meeting. As part of her testimony, Ms Gunnoe had a photo of a child bathing in copper-coloured water, and pictures of how the coal run-off had devastated the countryside. There were also stories from local people about how their air and water had become polluted.
However, the people in charge wouldn't let her show the child's photo, calling it pornographic.
Here is the photo:
After Gunnoe had given her testimony, the Capitol police took her aside to question her about the photo of the child in the bathtub, calling it child pornography.
Will somebody please tell me what is going on in Washington these days with the government, that this sort of thing is actually happening?
Quick Reply
|3 years ago :: Jun 05, 2012 - 11:25PM #2
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."
― Robert G. Ingersoll,
Quick Reply
|3 years ago :: Jun 06, 2012 - 9:08AM #3
This goes beyond the jackasses in Washington.
There are plenty of other jackasses in this country who think anything showing nudity is pornography.
There was a story a number of years ago about a grandmother who took a photo of her naked grandchild in the bathtub and was arrested after the clerk in the photo store (shows you how long ago this was!) took it upon himself (or herself) to be offended and called the police.
People are idiots.
Quick Reply
|3 years ago :: Jun 13, 2012 - 11:21PM #4
Bureacratic anal orifices tend to act like bureaucratic anal orifices...simple as that.
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
Quick Reply
|3 years ago :: Jun 14, 2012 - 11:31AM #5
I think it is a wild story. Obviously this woman is being harrassed because she is blowing a whistle. I don't think very many people would consider the photo in question as porn.
Quick Reply
|3 years ago :: Jun 21, 2012 - 3:34PM #6
This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.
Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
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I thought I had previously posted this on the dc forums but after a quick search I didn't see it.
I have been using a free program called Power Worship that will display songs during a worship service. It actually takes the songs that are saved in a text file and then after building a song list, it then creates a power point for you. It also works with Open Office.
here is a quote from their website
PowerWorshipTM works with Microsoft® PowerPoint® to allow users to maintain a library of worship songs and to dynamically build slide shows and reusable song groups.
Maybe its time for my first mini review.


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Update Feb. 17: According to the band's publicist, this show is no longer scheduled to take place.
The members of pedigreed rock crew 7dayBinge -- 3 Doors Down bassist Todd Harrell, Kid Rock guitarist Kenny Olson, founding Muzik Mafia member Jon Nicholson and drummer Shannon Boone -- are taking a second swing at hosting a Nashville release party for their self-titled album at the Hard Rock Cafe (100 Broadway, 742-9900).
The crew originally had the shindig scheduled in January, but as it was put off by "weather issues," they're set to take the Hard Rock stage now on Thursday, Feb. 25. The physical version of the album came out on January 26.
Haven't heard it? Here's how we categorized 7dayBinge when we tipped off the original release show: a "clearly Southern and soul-inflected brand of active rock" that surely won't bum out fans of the players' other work.
Grab more on 7dayBinge HERE.


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Duck Feet Egg Cup in Asprey hallmarked sterling silver with duck feet detail
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Get the latest on your favorite stars like Keshia Knight Pulliam, who was the first star to be pulled from the pool on "Splash." Then see how long Nicki Minaj's own hair really is. Also find out how Bravo will be giving fans an extra helping of the Georgia peaches on "Real Housewives of Atlanta." Also, read up on Jennifer Williams beautiful new gig. But first, check out Justin Timberlake's new video for "Mirror"!
–Sonya Eskridge


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Lightweight PrimaLoft® insulated pull-on with Pertex Quantum® fabrics for versatile warmth when weight and space is at a premium.
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A group of local pastors and other volunteers gathered Wednesday at New Jerusalem Missions to help spread some holiday cheer to those in need.Members of the local ministerial alliance, residents of New Jerusalem Missions and other community volunteers helped prep about 300 boxes for the Salvation Army's Christmas food distribution day Thursday. The organization also will be giving away toys and other gifts for children — last year, about 600 kids received...
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