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- Sunny Qureshi
- Karachi Sindh
- Pakistan
CEO, IQ Training & Consultancy
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Can we get "Unconditional Love" from people not related? (other than siblings, parents or wife)
I was wondering why dont we get unconditional love from people not related. Siblings or parents are in fact spiritually connected while friends and acquaintances will love you for ECONOMICAL or Conditional reasons even in the most advanced nations, why is that?? Or Is it sometimes the opposite?
Feb 28 2012: As humans, we are limited in our ability to love others--even those we're related to. To love unconditionally, must be supernaturally strengthened by connecting to the divine. We're able to love unconditionally once we're connected and fully surrounded to the God who so unconditionally loves us.
Feb 28 2012: Hi Yawa,
We are only as limited as we think we are. As humans, we are multi dimentional, multi sensory beings, and can love unconditionally whether or not we embrace a belief in a particular god. If you believe that only those who embrace a god are unconditionally loving, it sounds like you limit yourself and others regarding who can truly experience unconditional love. You put conditions on unconditional love?
Feb 28 2012: Actually, Colleen, what Yawa is expressing is that when we understand the unconditional love of God (as evidenced through Jesus Christ) our minds are opened to the incredible power of that love, and we then have a clear example of how to give fully of ourselves without expecting anything in return.
This is not putting limits on unconditional love - it is just an understanding of our limitations as humans, and how by our humility we draw strength from a source greater than ourselves. Yes, humans can love unconditionally without beleiving in a God; however, the example of His sacrifice for us is indeed the supreme example of unconditional love - and those who come to unconditional love through that example are truly blessed and are able to be blessings to others.
Feb 28 2012: And I believe Verble, that our minds and hearts can be open to unconditional love whether or not we embrace a certain god or religious belief. I am open to the incredible power of unconditional love, I feel very clear about how to give fully of myself without expectations, and I do not embrace a particular god or religious belief.
Are you saying that the unconditional love I experience is not as valuable as your unconditional love because of our religious beliefs, or lack of religious beliefs? In my perception Verble, these are the kinds of beliefs that seperate people, rather than bringing people together, so I don't agree with you on this one:>)Feb 28 2012: Hello Colleen, we are actually in more agreement than you may believe. There is no difference in unconditional love. Unconditional love it the greatest, the highest form of love that anybody can experience. There are no gradations. If love is not unconditional then it is simply another type of love.
We are built to love. We are built to show love and to experience love. I am only humbly stating that the example demonstrated by Jesus Christ is the greatest example (or model, if you will). We choose whether to live by this example or not, and i would never be so presumptuous as to say that a person who does not accept this model is incapable of showing unconditional love. But I will always state that what happened on that tree on that mound of dirt two millenia ago IS the greatest example.
But what Yawa so eloquently answered in her post was that by this acceptance, is is possible to draw directly from the source of unconditional love in order to fill ourselves up so much with love that we can then flow it out to others, thereby answering the original question in the Great Affirmative.
Feb 29 2012: I agree Verble, that there is no difference in unconditional love regardless of what we believe that source to be. I, for example, learned it from my mother. She was the one who opened the channels in my heart and mind to be able to give and recieve unconditional love. I agree that we are meant to love. I also believe that we are meant to accept (love) others without prejudice.
Honestly Verble, I percieve the example of Jesus Christ sacrificing his life as similar to suicide bombers. They too, are sacrificing their lives for the people, for the glory of god, and for a better stop in heaven. Same thing the catholic church tried to teach me about the prophet Jesus for 12 years!!!
I respect you and your belief that "what happened on that tree on the mound of dirt two millenia ago IS the greatest example" of whatever you believe it to be.
My only point, is that a belief in Jesus Christ, god, or what happened millenia ago, is not the only belief or perspective that can guide us toward unconditional love. I believe my mother's life, lived with integrity, acceptance and unconditional love for all people was the greatest example...for me. And many people have their own "greatest examples" of how, why, when, where and with whom they connect with the source of unconditional love:>)
When you, I, or anyone else believes that his/her connection to unconditional love is the one and only, then we seperate ourselves, thereby preventing filling ourselves up so much with love that we can flow with it. If we have cut off people because their belief is not our belief, we prevent the flow of unconditional love.
I presume "the original question" you refer to is..."Can we get "Unconditional Love" from people not related?".
Yes, I agree...we can get and recieve unconditional love from many sources when/if the heart and mind are open to that possibility:>)Feb 28 2012: Verble, thanks for sharing your perspectives, you and I are definitely on the same page!
Robin Patin
Feb 27 2012: I always wonder about the concept of "unconditional love". Does it really exist? Is it healthy to love someone or something unconditionally? I understand that parents can have conditional love for their children and siblings may have unconditional love for one another - but what happens when you genuinely dislike the person? Are you still obliged to have unconditional love for them - a parent, child, or sibling even though you genuinely don't like them?
- +3
I actually struggle with this issue as a new coach. Coaches are supposed to have 'unconditional positive regard' for the client. I quickly began to realize - there were just some clients I did not like as people. It made it nearly impossible for me to coach them because I was too busy holding up a mirror to them trying to show them that being a 'jerk' was the fundamental cause of their problems vs. allowing them to work through their own solutions.
I find the concept of unconditional love/positive regard curious. There are just some people in this world (whether they are relatives, coaching clients, or something else) that you ain't gonna love, like, or have much positive regard for. Its best to just acknowledge that and move on.
Feb 27 2012: not that i have any hard position on the issue, but.
we have a philosopher/poet who wrote the following, in my rough translation:
"love should be not like a string that attaches to people. it should be like warmth coming from a stove. it should radiate more on those who are closer, and less on those who are farther."
i'm not sure whether it is a good idea. but it seems like another kind of love. maybe worth considering?
Feb 27 2012: I like that Krisztián,
It seems like the statement..."love should be not like a string that attaches to people", reflects something simiilar to what I'm saying regarding attachment/expectations?Feb 27 2012: Hi Robin,
That is a great question...does unconditional love really exist? I believe that it does, and I think/feel that it is often misunderstood.
You ask..."Is it healthy to love someone or something unconditionally?"
I believe it is very healthy. Unconditional love, to me, means loving without expectations. It means giving whatever we choose to give without expecting anything in return.
That being said, I think/feel it is also important to know what we want to give unconditionally, why, when, where and to whom. I love all people unconditionally as fellow human beings who share this earth. That does not mean I give of myself in the same way to everyone. Unconditional love of all human beings, to me, means respect, compassion, empathy for all. Sometimes, I don't particularly LIKE the person or his/her behavior. Sometimes, I don't respect the behavior, but I respect and have compassion/empathy for the person who is a fellow evolving human being...make any sense?
To do this, we need to seperate the behavior from the person, and that is sometimes difficult to do. Luckily, my mom taught me this as a child. She always said about my abusive violent father...love the man...hate the behavior...he doesn't know how to love or be loved. So, I learned to have compassion for that person who did not know how to love, or treat people with respect. I did not love his behavior.
It's ok if you do not like certain things about some clients. Perhaps you can respect them and have compassion/empathy for them? That, to me, is what unconditional love is.Feb 27 2012: Robin,
I just thought of something that might help you deal with your feelings about your clients. I volunteered with the dept. of corrections for about 6 years, facilitating different programs with offenders, including "cognitive self change" sessions. A lot of these guys were hardened criminals, who commited some pretty terrible crimes against humanity. Some of the guys were difficult to "like" when considering what they had done to get themselves in jail.
As a facilitator, I had access to their files, and usually read about their background so I would have an idea of who/what I was dealing with before they closed and locked that metal door behind me and the offender. There were always guards watching through the window, but you never know!
Anyway, reading the files gave me a lot of information about why they were there...not just the obvious, but many things we might never know about people. Like the really tough guy, who was sexually molested by family members from the time he was 2 years old....sent to several foster homes where he was sexually molested again by the foster fathers...on and on....and on. He started living a life of crime as a child...stealing to support himself so he wouldn't have to go back to his home of origin, or the foster home....trying to be indepentant, so he didn't have to depend on people who were misusing and abusing him. That's what he learned as a child, and the crimes continued.
None of his story is explaination or justification for his crimes. None of his story makes the victims feel any better. What it did, was help me have compassion/empathy for this guy, which allowed me to reach out to him and possibly change his perception of life? I don't know for sure...I had no expectations....we can only try. My point is, we all have different stories, and some are not very encouraging or supportive of a peaceful life journey. If/when we can remember this, it may help with the people we interact with? Just a thought:>)
Robin Patin
Feb 28 2012: Perhaps I struggle with people's definition of love. The concept of love is different from person to person. What people are calling 'unconditional love' may be my definition of a healthy respect for humanity and forgiveness of past mistakes.
- +2
I flinch when people talk about unconditional love because I have seen people abuse the concept. I know abused husbands/wives who claim unconditional love for their abusive spouse when (in my opinion) the person does not even deserve their respect or time a day.
Is my love for a husband/partner conditional - hell yes it is. Its based on the condition of mutual love and respect. Once that premise no longer holds the person no longer has my unconditional love.
Even for siblings/ parents. If my family did something absolutely despicable, I could no longer respect them. My definition of love has respect at the foundation - I couldn't love them. I totally understand people's statements that the world can only be cured with love - which often means loving the 'unlovable' but to be honest, I'm not so generous. And most humans aren't either.
Feb 29 2012: Robin,
There definitely are many definitions and perceptions of love, and I percieve, by reading many of your comments, that you are a very insightful person, who will sift through information to discover your own truth about what love is.
You refer to abusive relationships...
I witnessed that with my parents, and also with my husband. I truly believed that if I loved him enough, we could have a mutually respectful relationship. What I discovered after years of trying to "make him happy" with encouragement, support and unconditional love, is that he was not willing, or capable of giving and recieving in the same way I was. I was expecting him to give me something that he could not/would not give for whatever reason. After 24 years, we divorced, and I continued to love him unconditionally, which did NOT unclude an intimate relationship or shared living situation.
Interestingly enough, he started respecting me and was more emotionally supportive of me once we were seperated. When I let go of my expectations that he would give me unconditional love, then he gave me unconditional love! He has had another partner for 20 years, who he does NOT treat with kindness or respect.
The point is, I let go of my expectations that this person COULD or WOULD love me in the way I wanted to be loved. When, after 24 years, I realized that I was jousting at windmills, I let go of the relationship, and let go of my expectations. My advice is that a person doesn't need to take 24 years to learn this...LOL:>)
When we know ourselves, we know what we want in a relationship, and we know that we don't have to accept anything less. Sounds like you've already GOT that lesson Robin.
Re: Family members:
I have 7 siblings, 6 of whom are unconditionally loving, giving people. We have one sister, who is often argumentative, confrontational, and not enjoyable to be around. We love her unconditionally as a sister, and don't spend much time with her. We can unconditionally love from afar:>)Feb 28 2012: great question robin, i suggest you read the life history of that nun the one that was in the movie (Dead Man walking) and other instances in life one can find unconditional love given by nuns and priets for DEATH ROW inmates. But the question is even this comes with a condtion, the nun or priest has a job as reflected in state laws for them to be present for the deathrow inmates, so wher is the unconditonal love here?Feb 26 2012: Love is unconditional by definition, if we need any 'condition' for love, it's a deal.
I truly believe, that if there is any purpose for us to be here, in this world , it is to learn to love.
It's not that easy as it sounds :)
Feb 27 2012: Very true indeed, Natasha.
You need to lose yourself to find yourself.
The ego needs to be broken down to see your true and loving self, unfortunate mostly through all pain and suffering.
Feb 28 2012: Hi, Frans !
Yes, saying ''it's not easy" I mean it's a way, a long life way to the 'death of ego '.
Love is a verb...
It's life, it's our little everyday choices and to make right ones we'd better make them from love.
At least it works for me :)
And as long we are asking " Can we GET..unconditional love...?" we are still in a wrong place, for love is not about getting but about giving and only about giving.
Thank you !
Feb 28 2012: Natasha,
You say..."it's not easy".
I believe it is WAY easier to live a life with unconditional love. It is freeing, in my humble perception. Like you insightfully say Natasha, "it's our little everyday choices" that make the difference. How difficult is it to change our "little everyday choices"....it's really fun:>)
If we look at something as a difficult struggle or not easy, that is exactly what we create in our lives. If we look at it as changing the little everyday choices, it may seem like an easier task....thanks for that reminder:>)Feb 29 2012: Hi, Colleen !
Thanks for your response !
The same story again :) Generally I agree with what you said, or I like your answer, but it is not about my question...
For me 'unconditional Love ' is like absolute Truth, which is not unrelated to 'my' truth, but it is not identical either.
Absolute/unconditional love requires Christ/Cosmic consciousness.
I am on board with Frans vision"when you have no life of your own because you exist through every living thing".
I do think "it's not easy " :)
Feb 29 2012: You are absolutely right Natasha! I was busy agreeing with and appreciating your insightful statement
..."It's life, it's our little everyday choices and to make right ones we'd better make them from love. At least it works for me :)"
I LOVE that Natasha:>)
Your question actually is..." Can we GET..unconditional love...?" we are still in a wrong place, for love is not about getting but about giving and only about giving".
I believe unconditional love to be about giving and recieving. When the channel for the flow of unconditional love is open, we can both give and recieve....in my humble perception and experience:>)
I respect, accept and have unconditional love for you and your perception that "it's not easy". I believe that it is much easier and more enjoyable than the alternative, and that is simply my own perception based on my own experience:>)
Mar 5 2012: Continued reply to Ms. Linda Taylor ~~~~~~~
- +2
To experience unconditional love we must first love ourselves. This is a prerequisite for love in all relationships and Ms. Colleen Steen has effectively explained this aspect. To love us, we must first accept ourselves. We must accept us with all our abilities and disabilities; accept our beauty and ugliness; accept our jealousy, greed, perverseness, fear and every other thing we have been pushing under the carpet of our mind. Once we learn to 'love' most other difficulties we have been facing will disappear by themselves. We can make a beginning to find the source deep down in each one of us, the gate to the eternal love that can never be blemished by any condition that is happening in the mind or the world outside.
Unconditional love can happen only in us and not in the other persons involved. There is also no need for it as once we are unconditionally loving, the actions or responses of others are irrelevant to us.
This is a response to all your comments. It is still only an introduction to unconditional love so that from now we may continue to discuss in agreement with Colleen and others.
With love and respects to you.
Mar 5 2012: As you insightfully reinforce CK, loving ourselves unconditionally is a prerequisite for love in all relationships. We are often taught that love of ourselves is selfish. We've sometimes been taught that to give to others is noble, holy, and the prefered way to "be" in our world.
To truly experience a deep level of unconditional love, it is important to accept ourselves...beauty, ugliness, jealousy, greed, perverseness, abilities, disabilities,fear, joy, and every other "part" of us. To discover ourselves "deep down", as you say, is on the path to unconditional love.
Accepting ourselves does not mean that we automatically accept all behaviors. It means that in knowing ourselves, we have the opportunity to keep those feelings, thoughts, ideas, opinions and behaviors that we choose to keep, and let go of that which is not beneficial to ourselves and/or the whole.
I agree CK that once we know ourselves on the level you speak of, the actions or responses of others are irrelevant to us.
Mar 5 2012: Thank you, Colleen. The "level at which I speak' may appear impractical. I spoke about such a level because unconditional love is difficult to practice. However, it is decidedly much possible for anyone to live in a relaxed and satisfying manner irrespective of indifferent or uncaring partners and friends. Acceptance is one of the helpful prctices.
What I mean by accepting the bad and ugly in ourselves is to acknowledge that, yes, it is there in ourselves. At that point, no further action is needed such as deciding to keep the good and hoping to throw out the rest. As an example, imagine a lady who has a habit of overspending whenever she goes for shopping, and later lying to her husband to hide the extra expense. In practice, I am outlining she is expected to accept that she has such a bad trait. Once she does that she may surprisingly find herself capable of accepting the habit of her husband lying about the exact number of drinks he has had. More and more acceptance will lead to more and more unconditional acceptance.
A lady had commented about the pain in being treated as a door mat. In my opinion that could be avoided if she also accepts that she is doing nothing to prevent such abuse. Her own inaction is augmenting the unjust treatment given to herself.
I appreciate your observations and comments.
My repects and love to you.
Mar 5 2012: CK,
So, you are suggesting that "unconditional acceptance" is much like compromise?
Re: The door mat scenario:
I agree that we often accept behaviors when we "do nothing to prevent such abuse". Our own inaction enables the behavior to continue.
Thinking about your examples, reminds me that it is good to compromise and be unconditionally accepting until/unless that acceptance causes us to feel less accepting of ourselves? If our unconditional acceptance is imbalanced in a relationship, then it is not mutually unconditionally loving. That is why I feel it is important to know ourselves and know exactly what we will accept, and not accept.
I appreciate, respect and love you too:>)Mar 6 2012: just beautiful colleen
Mar 2 2012: To be in unconditional love, the separateness between two individual has to disappear. It has to be realized that being two entities is an illusion and on a deeper level both are connected. In that experience of oneness instead of the 'twoness', there is no space for conditions
- +2
Mar 2 2012: What a wonderful insight on unconditional love..............may I add it to my list of quotes?
A spirit of cooperation is very powerful indeed. Unity is missing from life today, because a spirit of competition exists...............as an old saying goes..........."divide and conquer".
Thank you Mr. Kumar!!
Mar 3 2012: Thank you Mary. You may use it as you wish. love and respects to you.Mar 2 2012: Oh Yes dear CK!
When we recognize that we are all connected...more the same than different, how can we NOT be unconditionally loving? We are like mirrors to each other reflecting back and forth all the time...exchanging energy. When we realize this, it is as you say...there is no space for conditions:>) Conditions are a blockage to the experience of unconditional love:>)
Mar 5 2012: Colleen,
I just found your comment. I did not know you had replied.
Yes, of course I agree with you.
And, yes, the women obviously do not love themselves.....I just can't understand it.......as in... "it doesn't fit inside my head......I cannot wrap my head around it......." Your experience is very touching, I have read it several times throughout my time here on TED. Thank you for sharing it once again.
Obviously the easiest person to fool is ourselves.
Thank you for replying.....in life we sometimes build our house of integrity with bricks others throw at us.......and sometimes, after the house is built, someone can come and break it, and we stoop and build it up again with worn-out tools (like R. Kipling mentions in his poem IF).
Unconditional love requires sacrifice to give......and it can come from anyone.....but the first person we really have to love is ourself....I think we all agree on that.
Be Well Colleen......Mary
Mar 5 2012: Dear Mary,
There are a lot of stories we simply "just can't understand" because we have not walked in the shoes of the people who have had some experiences. That is why I believe it to be importnat to open our hearts and minds to love unconditionally. We don't know for sure what challenges people face every single day....there is so much we do not know! There are many stories that "do not fit inside" our heads, as you insightfully say.
I share my experiences because I can. I have walked many paths throughout this life experience, and I believe that by sharing our stories, we connect more and more with each other. Connecting more with each other facilitates unconditional love.....there is a method to my madness!!! LOL:>)
When we "build our house" with our own integrity/bricks, it is strong...like the mighty oak in the middle of the storm.
IF is one of my favorites....
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'...............Mar 4 2012: Quoting you:"To be in unconditional love, the separateness between two individual has to disappear". Unquote
For separateness to disappear relation comes into play... i wonder the question still remains unanswered that is receiving this unconditional love from un-related people? in a era of egoism , that is not a possiblility, in the subcontinent or far east the cast system still prevails thus stopping uncondtional love, the only way forward is to remove the cast system i guess!!
Mar 4 2012: Expecting to receive unconditional love from others itself is a condition. To 'be' in love unconditionally with another person is a spiritual state. It is an experience. Kindly try to contemplate on that state and you would realize it is not an easy task. To love number of people unconditionally is to be in compassion as we have seen in Buddha and Christ.
Yes, the caste and all other systems by which we have divided ourselves will have to go. To have a society that would love each other is perhaps a dream but an ideal dream to motivate each one of us to contribute towards it.
Mar 4 2012: CK,
Everything starts with a dream:>)
I agree that expecting to receive unconditional love from others is a condition. When we truly love unconditionally, there are no expectations. There may be preferences, likes and dislikes, but no expectations.
I also agree that we recognize unconditional love of many people (everyone) with respect, compassion, empathy. I believe these to be the underlying qualities and the foundation for unconditional love, which can be shared with everyone. I experience unconditional love as easier, and more natural than the alternative:>)Mar 4 2012: When separateness between two people disappears it becomes a toxic relationship. Unconditional love is when someone loves you enough to realize that and leaves you because of it. Unconditional love is when someone loves you enough that they want the best for you even if it is not the best for them.
Mar 4 2012: Are you referring to the identity of two people as separate individuals ? The individuality of each ? That is part of our ego. In the spiritual level, those identities disappear as they are only our illusions
Someone leaving you so that you may live better is not unconditional love. It is a sacrifice by the other person. It is an end. It has no continuity. Love is ongoing. It is an experience of our being (self) Love can never get toxic as our minds cannot reach and contaminate it. Love comes from our heart.
Mar 4 2012: Unconditional love simply means love without conditions. There are no ifs. If you do this I will love you. If this happens I will love you. If is the operative word.
Loving someone unconditionally means there are no ifs. Most relationships are built around ifs. If you are faithful I will love you. If you make me happy I will love you. It's how it works.
Love is not in your heart, it's in your brain. Love is just an emotion and as such it is mediated by hormones. And as humans, our default setting is to use emotions to manipulate other people. It is rare that we rise above that. Sacrifice is one way.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19232-did-emotions-evolve-to-push-others-into-cooperation.htmlMar 4 2012: Linda,
Is it unconditional love that is "mediated by hormones"? Or is it attraction that is mediated by hormones?
I agree that emotions are sometimes used to manipulate others. What happens when we are aware of this, and choose another "default setting"? Do you believe we can change the dynamic of relationships by letting go of the "IFs", which are usually expectations and manipulations? I believe we have that choice:>)Mar 4 2012: Of course Colleen. I think it is well worth striving against our defauts:) I think it is worthy and we should work towards it. I have one relationship that I can say is truly unconditional. It is because I have that one, I understand what it is not. Because I have that one, I would like to have more. But the only way to survive unconditional love is to have someone unconditionally love you back and that is even rarer. Because when you unconditionally love, the default of others is to take. You are meeting their need. If they do not give back, you can be destroyed. I think the term in our country is door mat.
Oh and it was emotions that are hormonally mediated. All emotions are hormonally mediated. Simple biology.
@C K. Don't you understand that someone leaving you so you can live better is unconditional love? Your condition of them staying outlines the condition for love.Mar 4 2012: I don't agree Linda, that "the only way to survive unconditional love is to have someone unconditionally love you back..."
We can love unconditionally regardless of what another person chooses. As soon as we believe that the only way we can have unconditional love is to be loved, we are giving it conditions.
I agree that sometimes when we love inconditionally, people will use our vulnerability to "take". That is why we need to be clear about what we are willing to give to whom. Loving unconditionally does not mean we give of ourselves in the same way to everyone. It mean we know ourselves well enough to be sure about what we will give to whom.
To me, unconditional love for everyone is a foundation of respect, compassion, and empathy. From that foundation, we make choices in each moment regarding how, why, when, where and with whom we will give more of ourselves...make any sense?
We need also to love ourselves unconditionally, which means taking care of ourselves. If we don't meet our own needs first, we cannot meet anyone else's need. We cannot give to others, something we don't honestly have in ourselves, for ourselves.
That being said, if someone doesn't "give back" to us we don't need to feel "destroyed". We simply recognize that s/he cannot or will not give and recieve in the same way...make any sense?
If we feel like a "door mat", I think/feel it is because we are not taking care of ourselves, as well as we are trying to take care of someone else.Mar 4 2012: I think you do a fabulous job of describing love. But there are a lot of ifs in your description. I mean literally.
Unconditional love is rare. When you do it you can be destroyed. Been there. And I do not mean feel destroyed. I mean be destroyed. Where you don't even remember who you are. That is why it is not something to be taken lightly.
The interesting thing is that it does not go away. It is always there. That whole destroyed thing - is the exact same relationship.
I think its really tough to describe and I think it may be related to the language we are discussing it in. In English we only have one word for love. Because I think we actually agree but are discussing two different phenomena.Mar 4 2012: Dear Linda,
It feels like you are very close in time to the situation which caused you to feel "destroyed"?
If so, my heart and unconditional love go out to you. I do not take it lightly at all. To me, to love unconditionally, is a very important part of the life journey, and I take it very seriously.
You may be right...we may be discussing two different phenomena, and I am glad to discuss whatever phenomena you would like to discuss if you help me understand what phenomena that is.Mar 5 2012: Colleen I like your version of unconditional love. You love yourself first and then love everyone else. It is a balanced way to move in the world. I would not call that unconditional love but I do like it better.
Interesting about the perception of close in time. It was more than 30 years ago. That's how profound it can be. Live laugh and love.Mar 5 2012: Yes Linda,
Remember what the foundation of my unconditional love is...respect, compassion, empathy. There was a time when I thought someone would give those gifts to me...I hoped, wished, expected a person to give that to me. I finally realized that I cannot expect anyone to give me something I cannot, or would not give myself.
Our experiences can be very profound, and impact our entire lives....thanks for sharing that Linda.Mar 5 2012: Linda,
It looks to me that you focus the idea of love to much on the sexual relationship.
I've seen good relationship that weren't love at all but a good deal. As both find themselves happy with it it's good for the time being.
Love has to do with any relationship and as Colleen mentions it starts with how you may love yourself.
Love is to see the most precious in all life and living and to appreciate beauty where it shows. They're all of your creation and not visible for individuals that are disconnected from their hearts, those we call depressive.
What the heart holds is what we meet in life.
Mar 5 2012: "Linda,
It looks to me that you focus the idea of love to much on the sexual relationship."
Yes Frans....look how she says it herself:
"I think we actually agree but are discussing two different phenomena."
But she really does make a good point about romantic love. Her comment is based on her life experience, and so it is noteworthy.
Alot of sacrifice is involved in unconditional love.......there is no denying it. I have seen it.
What I think happens is that many times, this so called sacrifice, especially in romantic relationships, comes from those who truly do not understand what love is.
Women have told me, I love him unconditionally, and then stay in relationships that are abusive. I do not understand this.
That is why, the answer to the question at hand, is a resounding YES...unconditional love, as most of us here understand, can come from anyone, family or not.
Your comments are very insightful, as are Colleen's. Thank you once againMar 5 2012: Mary,
You write..."Women have told me, I love him unconditionally, and then stay in relationships that are abusive. I do not understand this".
This happens because the piece that is missing is unconditional love (respect, compassion, empathy) for OURSELVES.
I speak from my own experience, and based on working with abused women for years. I gave unconditional love to my partner for 24 years...always giving HIM what he needed and wanted and truly believed that he might someday treat me with respect and kindness. I believed that if I loved him enough, he would see the joy and pleasure of unconditional love, and we could have a mutually respectful relationship. As long as I believed that was a possibility, I gave unconditionally to him. I finally realized that I was depleting myself.
As I expressed to a councelor toward the end of our relationship..."I feel like we are both trying to build our houses, and he keeps stealing my bricks...not only that, but I am giving him my bricks as well!" The metaphor of course, is that I was not paying attention to the fact that I was giving all my resourses to him in an effort to create a kind, respectful, loving relationship. That is where loving oneself comes into the picture. We cannot successfully give to someone else, something we do not have in ourselves.
The other thing about abusive relationships is that we often repeat the same patterns as our parents for various reasons. My mother, for example, was in an abusive relationship for 65 years. When/if we know ourselves, respect, and have compassion (unconditional love) for ourselves, the likelhood of repeating the same behaviors is less. This could be a whole new discussion, and I'll try to stay on topic with unconditional love:>)Mar 6 2012: Frans I love your insight. Unfortunately the one relationship I speak of never crossed to the physical domain. Interesting projection there. There is truth to what Mary points out as sacrifice. It may be the hallmark of what I was talking about.
I think it is the Greeks who have at least three words for love. If I remember gradeschool they were eros, pathos, and agape. That's why I could agree with Colleen yet still be talking about something else. I truly like her description that you cannot unconditionally love others (agape) without loving yourself.
I don't think an abusive relationship is the endpoint of what I was privileged to experience. And I do consider it a privilege. Destruction and all. A gift.
So much more is involved in an abusive relationship that cannot be blamed on misapplied love. Even a well balanced person can go into a relationship and have it turn abusive and I don't have the expertise to comment.
What I can say to tie together all of the above is that sometimes we have to go through an experience to get the lesson. I would never trade that experience. But I think the way to walk in the world is how Colleen has it framed.
P.S. My sincere apologies to all Greek Tedsters if I got it wrong. The meaning came from the heart.Mar 4 2012: I remember once as I discovered this truth how this changed my world.
I worked for many years together with a colleague that wasn't really a harmonious relation. We didn't like each other much and that resulted from his part to a lot of jealousy and fanaticism.
From the day I realized he was just another version of me his attitude changed completely.
Without saying anything about it but just by this realization everything became different.
We didn't become close friends but the cooperation was much more satisfactory and even joyful at times.
Mar 4 2012: Good story Frans,
I agree that when we let go of our expectations, accept and love unconditionally, it encourages others around us to do the same. Letting go of our expectations, which often create a lot of "mind chatter", opens the channel for flowing unconditional love...the bases of which is respect, compassion and empathy....in my humble perception:>)
I like how you discovered that "he was just another version of me". We are like mirrors reflecting back and forth all the time. Sometimes, those we don't particularly like are showing us something about ourselves, so in my perception, it's important to pay attention to the gift they may be giving me. We are more the same than different, and when we recognize this, we can experience unconditional love:>)Mar 5 2012: I agree with Colleen. Sometimes what we find difficult to deal with in others is how accurately they project the personality traits that we don't like in ourselves. Reminds me of all the times my wife and I are driving bakc home from parties and I'm on about how some person just kept chatting away and hijacking the entire conversation and she will say "I just kept thinking how much they reminded me of you!"
Colleen has hit on a very good point about opening ourselves to love by letting go of the expectation that they will reciprocate. Very poignant, indeed!Mar 5 2012: @ Frans
I so much agree with you on the incredible paradigm shift that occurs when we realize that what we dislike in others may help us learn alot about ourselves.
Finding this truth is liberating, because it helps you to interact with others liberally.....without judgment....and a spirit of cooperation then exists......You are able to project kindness and expect nothing from the other individual.........When others see this in you what happens is they let down their guard and do not see you as a threat..............and then relationships can grow and flourish....and also it makes for better work environment at the place of employment. (Which by the way is a big problem today.....the "lack" of peace at the workplace...due to workplace bullying and mobbing)
It doesn't mean that you will become friends with everybody...........but you will somehow get along with everybody and anybody, regardless of how they feel about you.
Thank you Frans for sharing your experience.
Manue M
Feb 27 2012: Hello Sunny,
- +2
I got married because I fell in love with a man who had no connection with my family... (And I would not even have labelled him "my type of guy" at all, or anything.)
If you manage to love as many people as possible during your life time, maybe even get to feel love and compassion for all humans, I believe you will have accomplished something great in your life.
I would suggest you to look at Matthieu Ricard on Ted and the scientifical experience he was part of. He was ask to meditate on unconditional love and compassion... See what happened!
May you experience all you need in life.
Mar 6 2012: Thank you manue, but still as mentioned below by adrian & amy, for unconditional love to develop one must spend time togther like your case because you fell in love with a stranger and married him after spending time with each other isnt it? so out of the oblivion suddenly love doesn't happen i guess frm a complete stranger to another on the spot that is
Manue M
Mar 7 2012: Dear Sunny,
- +1
I think, we might want to make a clear distinction between:
- unconditional love
- attachment
I love my kids unconditionally, and I have a very strong bond and I feel a very strong attachment for them.
I love the human kind in a more detached way. I feel compassion for human beings. Even when people act badly, I have understood that they are not free, they have been conditioned by life, by genetics, they have not been loved at all, or not enough. I would recommend this video: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/jim_fallon_exploring_the_mind_of_a_killer.html
Now, of course would anyone touch to my family, I would, on the spot, in extreme circonstances be able of even killing I believe to protect them.
Can I say that I just love my family unconditionaly? Or should I say, I love my family no matter what plus, there is that something extra, something that makes the attachment very strong, and would make me do anything for my close oness? Are you talking about that other powerful feeling? Something more instinctive?
I think that the whole question here is to define unconditional love really and see if that is all we are feeling for our family or if there is not this extra powerful attachment that cannot be defined as unconditional love.
From what I understood about Buddhist philosophy for example, unconditional love does not require attachment. Monks are actually working on loving unconditionnaly in a detached way.
What do you think? Are you talking about love with attachment? Or unconditional love that can be felt in a detached way?
Mar 7 2012: Your comment made me think of the quote: "You can love someone, without liking them"
Love can help you see the good in others, and gives you empathy and many times pity for others........I think these are all interconnected.
And, if you have knowledge to share with these individuals that can change them and make them happier, love can be the motivation behind your willingness to help them.
I have even seen interviews, and know personally individuals who have met with those directly responsible for the death of one of their family members, and they have forgiven them for the crime. That takes alot of love and compassion.Feb 27 2012: Anything that is given without expectations of getting something in return, is unconditional. When we have expectations, whatever we are giving is no longer unconditional. The important part of the question is not who we are giving to, or recieving from. The important part is whether or not we attach expectations or conditions to what we are giving/recieving. With that in mind, we can give, or recieve unconditionally with anyone.Mar 6 2012: For unconditional acceptance it is necessary to spend time with that person! as was mentioned below by one of the members.
Mar 10 2012: Dear Sunny,
I do not feel it is wise to measure the time spent with someone to determine the depth of unconditional love and acceptance. There are so many different levels of relationship, which all may have very different dynamics. To me, the quality of time spent with anyone is more important than quantity of time spent.
When we know ourselves (respect, have compassion, empathy and acceptance for ourselves), we seem to connect faster with ALL people...in my experience:>) We project to the world what we have in our hearts, and with that projection, we often encourage others to connect in the same way. Of course, there are relationships in which we spend a lot of time...family, roommates, partners, special friends, etc. I believe we can connect very deeply with people we do not spend a lot of time with, and I have done that on many occasions.
One beautiful relationship comes to mind:
I was sitting next to a women in an airport...both our planes were delayed and we started chatting...for a couple hours...until our planes were taking off. We both connected immediately, enjoyed the interaction, exchanged address/phone numbers...I was going home to Vermont...she was going home to Texas.
We exchanged several cards and letters in the next few weeks, then I sustained a near fatal head/brain injury. When I regained consciousness, there were several letters of encouragement and support from this person, as well as from many others....thankfully for me:>)
She continued to call and send many inspiriational messages throughout my recovery. About a year later, she was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and was given only a couple months to live. She asked if I would be with her at the end, and I was...I spent one of her last weeks with her. I felt incredibly close to this person...she reminded me a lot of my mother, as she was an older women. The time we spent was precious, although technically not a lot of time.
I am grateful to have many relationships like that:>)
Mar 17 2012: Dear colleen, just excellent, you really have a beautiful way of explaining things, i'm addin you to my list of favorite members
Mar 17 2012: Thank you so much for that feedback Sunny. I am honored:>)
Words, thoughts, feelings, ideas, opinions and beliefs, like everything in life, are to be shared with kindness and respect...in my humble perception:>)
Mar 6 2012: I agree with your observation, Collen. The example I have given is misleading. I have not made the underlying principle apparent. I will elucidate on it.
- +1
Imagine yourself in a situation where your partner asks you a certain amount of money as a loan. From your earlier experience, you doubt that your partner has no intention of giving it back to you ever. You are also aware that your vulnerability in such situations always worked negatively to yourself. Irrespective of this, you extend your help. The result is you feel cheated.
As most people do, you later overcome this ill feeling with positive effort.
Instead of that I suggest that you accept your vulnerability at that moment. Accept that, you have just been cheated. You accept that you are vulnerable. It is a quality that was in built in you by nature. That quality irrespective of being defective was your inheritance. In that seeing and with that acceptance, you stop condemning. You are not ashamed of it anymore as it is the truth and you are being honest. I assure you that "at that moment", you will experience a joy. You will experience unconditional love to yourself. Anyone in relationship with you will become acceptable to you as you have stopped judging. You see dishonesty of your partner as his trait as what he has been given by nature.
You are at peace. The conflict, the ill feeling, has disappeared. You have begun your journey in accepting all reality surrounding your life as they are and not as they are expected to be. You will begin to respond to situations rather than react to them..
Mar 6 2012: Dear CK,
If I learned from past experiences that my partner was not dependable in a certin way, I would not expect anything different from him/her. If I am aware of a certain behavior, and realize that I feel vulnerable by participating in that endeaver, I would not participate.
To me, that is exactly what the life journey is all about...learning as we move through the challenges. We cannot continue the same behaviors/responses/actions and reactions and expect different results. I agree that vulnerability is a natural quality which we can accept. I do not believe that it is necessary to stay in a continually vulnerable state to be unconditionally loving.
I will not condemn anyone for cheating me, nor will I continue to participate in a relationship of that kind. The ability to learn is also a natural state of being. To me, being honest, means addressing the situation at hand, and being clear about what we will and will not accept.
CK, I am unconditionally loving with myself, which is why I can be unconditionally loving with everyone. I also know what boundaries I choose for myself, and I am clear with myself, which allows me to respect and accept that in others as well:>)
Mar 6 2012: great again
Mar 7 2012: Thank you Sunny for your appreciation; however, I think that I have not been able to covey the full depth of the subject matter to other participantsMar 7 2012: Thank you Sunny:>)
- +1
CK...perhaps it is to be conveyed to you?Mar 6 2012: This reminds me of a dear friend of mine. She is elderly. She is very vulnerable to those asking for help. Many times she will drive complete strangers home.
I try to gently and tactfully help her see the danger is this. She always replies with a smile and says, I just cannot help it, it is the way I am. They seemed honest and sincere in their need, I just couldn't say no.
There is an innocence about her. She sees the good in things always, and is at peace with this vulnerable part of her personality.
It is quite remarkable to observe her in action.........your comment made me think of this.
I think all of us have something of value to share with others, something we have "inherited" as you mention, may it sometimes include our vulnerabiity?
This is fascinating.
Mar 6 2012: Mary,
One thing that happens, when one is unconditionally loving, is that we can feel on many different levels. It actually opens the channels to recieve information on many more levels. Your friend may be secure in the choices she makes because of her awareness on different levels. We all have intuition and instinct, which many times we do not pay attention to. Unconditional love (acceptance, respect, compassion, empathy) allows us to open all channels to feeling and thinking, rather than having our world colored by allowing only certain information in our mind and heart.
I have also put myself in circumstances that may not be recommended, because I "knew" in my heart that I was safe. Hopefully, your friend will continute to be safe as well Mary:>)
Mar 6 2012: Yes Colleen, I trust that she will be safe also.
And like you, I also have put myself in situations that no other human around me
dares to venture into. I just have this feeling that I can do it.
Thank you Colleen for your reply.Mar 6 2012: So Mary, perhaps when we are clear in ourselves and embrace unconditional love, there is no longer the feeling of vulnerability? That is what I experience in my own life:>)
Mar 6 2012: Yes Colleen, I think you are right.
I understand your point of view perfectly. Once we know who we are, and also what we stand for, we can love others freely.......unconditionally, and we do not feel vulnerable.
We no longer feel vulnerable because we are in "control" of what we do.
I think if we have reached that level of insight, then we certainly can see when others are trying to manipulate us and take advantage of us.
And we are able to lovingly and kindly express to them how we feel indirectly.....the person who is trying to take advantage of us should be able to see, that while we are loving and kind, we are no dummies...we are not vulnerable.
I am not sure if I went too far in my explanation..............but I truly think loving people are sometimes viewed as "weak" and "vulnerable"...........it is not always the case.
We are acting without interest......we are loving unconditionally.........that doesn't mean that we can be taken advantage of. These are two different things....do you understand what I am trying to say.............it is sometimes hard to explain things on line.
We choose to love, because it is the best way of living. Don't you think so Colleen?Mar 6 2012: Mary,
I think/feel your explanation is GREAT!!! Yes, we choose to love unconditionally because it is more joyful and pleasurable than the alternative...in my humble perception. When we make that choice, I totally agree, that it frees us and those around us from feeling vulnerable:>)
Well said Mary:>)
Mar 6 2012: The reply button is giving me headaches......so if this is doubled I will come back and erase.
* * * * * * * * *
Aaah, it's nice to be understood.
Happy Tuesday!!Mar 6 2012: Dear Mary,
Dealing with the reply button is a good way to practice unconditional love and acceptance!!! LOL:>)
Well, I made a joke, AND I'm also serious:>) If we practice acceptance of those things we cannot change on a simple, easy level, it starts to build our strength and confidence for other acceptance. I know you know this, I'm simply reminding you...so have a little fun and laughter with the reply button:>) Lavender oil, applied to the temples sometimes helps headaches. Feverfew tea is also good:>)
Love you Mary, and Happy Tuesday to you:>)Mar 6 2012: Brilliant CKMar 5 2012: Yes and blessed with one.
Comment deleted
Mar 4 2012: With children and animals this is about the same like you say.
They're still more pure, absorbent and in connection with the heart.
P Tun
Mar 1 2012: Absolutely! We can get and can give unconditional love from/to people not related to us. It's a fabulous way to experience life. It's an incredibly beautiful experience to know that we are loved and accepted uncondtionally for who we are even with our flaws, and to truly feel this unconditional love towards other.
- +1
I really like what Colleen Steen said about this topic.
Mar 2 2012: Dear P Tun,
I wholeheartedly, unconditionally agree with you that unconditional love from/to people is a FABULOUS, BEAUTIFUL way to experience life, and I believe it to be unlimited.
I think/feel what happens sometimes, is that people build protective "walls" around themselves because of fear, and these walls prevent unconditional love from flowing through us. It is necessary to "peel back the onion" (the layers of walls) to discover that unconditional love is an incredibly natural, magnificent feeling which we can give and recieve all the time, with everyone. We need to first experience it in ourselves:>)
I really like what YOU say about this topic P Tun:>)Feb 29 2012: In my opinion, we should never walk around thinking we are "entitled" to "unconditional" love from anyone.
In reality, sometimes our actions, or even lack of them, as in neglecting to be loving in return, can cool off another's love for us.
I would like to believe that love of any kind, interpersonal relationships for that matter, is not so fragile or tenuous—that it might not be withdrawn at any moment because of some failing on the other's part or that the siblings/friends/parents/children are obliged to earn such love by doing everything just right.
With this definition of "unconditional love, I can see anyone loving another "uncondiitonally"......... Like a friend of mine says all the time: "My love for you is far greater than your imperfections".
Many individuals have learned to love without expecting anything in return....this is a superior kind of love that may evolve with time in some. You can sense it in other's actions......and not just their words.
Very interesting question Sunny.....
Be Well
Paul Hopkin
Feb 28 2012: Seems to me that this thread is built on an obvious fallacy: sibling connection, or one of the other relations, is in fact a condition, so the question is moot. I would also assert that though there is something about loving without expectation, the absence of projected result does not presume an absence of condition.Feb 28 2012: Unconditional love as suggested below by a fellow tedster below Miss Collen steen was so true regarding loving someone without any conditions. It is no doubt healthy but scarce. from parents and family and specially my wife if have received unconditional love but from friends it usually begins by sycophancy with it a request is attched. Thus as a result of this i believe uncondtional love can only be given by our parents...
- +1
Mar 6 2012: sychophancy hmm so true can you elaborate a little moreFeb 27 2012: Time spent together while one or the other person is a child is also important here.
In all cases you mention besides spouse (child, parent, sibling), it makes sense that the bond be strong because so much time was spent together during your most impressionable years (youth) or while the other person is young (tendency for people to care about children).
Mar 6 2012: so for unconditional love to happen , it is necessary to sepdn time with each other? hmm interesting , what about a father to his new born daughter
Mar 9 2012: It doesn't seem like any single cause is necessary, though if there were one, time spent together would have to be the top one. At the extreme, it's hard to believe you could love someone you have never met.
In the case of the father and his newborn daughter, there is the genetic argument from our last comment, and there is even something you could consider similar to time spent together: time spent in anticipation of the baby coming along. It would make sense that someone anticipating, for months, the arrival of a baby would be more enamoured of it than someone who found out about it on the day it was born.Feb 27 2012: Genetic similarity is important here.
There are many reasons to love and make small or large sacrifices for others, but one factor is that evolutionarily speaking, when you do things for others, you are somewhat doing things for yourself, due to shared genetic material. ...and the more another person has in common with you genetically, the more that is true.
Of course, bending to that evolutionary pressure is not necessarily a good thing.
For some reason we think it is OK at the family level but rightly denounce it at the racial level. It is partly the same phenomenon, though, so it should be our goal to rise above it.
Mar 6 2012: Excellent
João Pinto
Feb 26 2012: Unconditional love, as it seems, can only be achieved with siblings, parents, etc.
- +1
Why is that? In my opinion, it is because we only know a person when we live under the same roof as that person. In other words, because we get to know that person as he/she really is.
Although, asking to your question, I say yes. We can´t even describe love, what´s love. The definition of love is very fragile. Maybe love is just a strong bound, and why not?
I think I wasn´t very clear in the last part, so if anyone has a question or an argument don´t hesitate replying.
Feb 27 2012: Unconditional love is the deep felt understanding that all life is one life. That you have no life of your own because you exist through every living thing. You know yourself for what other people show you, your parents gave you life and strength while plants and animals provide for energy and building material. There really is nothing you are that you haven't received first. All you can give you're just passing on and the more you can give the more it will return but only if it's given with love and by appreciation.
Manue M
Feb 27 2012: Agreed!Feb 29 2012: I will second that!!Mar 4 2012: Thanks for sharing that wonderful thought!Mar 6 2012: excellentMar 9 2012: Absolutely.
- +1
Unfortunately, there are plenty of situations where reciprocity isn't built in, so people don't get this sense as much as they could.
...and more and more it seems like people want to believe they are islands. ...and that too-strong independence streak is related to people wanting to be unique, and to the phenomenon of celebrity.Feb 26 2012: Your question caused me to think about people that give their lives for people they do not know. What would this be called? Altruism? Could this be a form of unconditional love? And what about the social workers and people that help others, those that genuinely care about a person's needs and well-being without giving one thought to the individual's history that brought them to the potentially adverse situation they are in (e.g. drug abuse, domestic violence, criminal wrong-doings)? Could this be considered unconditional love?


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Spacecraft Mass: 2,180 kg (4,806 pounds) total at launch, consisting of 139 kg (306 pounds) science payload, 892 kg (1,967 pounds) other dry weight, plus 1,149 kg (2,533 pounds) of propellant and pressurant
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The Manhattan living room of Tiffany & Co. accessories designers Richard Lambertson and John Truex; the large '60s painting depicts a view of Florence, Italy.
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|Margarita for Two
KosherEye Signature Recipe
3 ounces silver (white)Tequila (any)*
Dip margarita glass rim in real lime juice – or Rose's and then in salt.
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While scheduling surgery, you will also schedule a pre-operative consultation visit to again discuss the planned procedure and have any additional questions answered.
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From Surgery to Skincare, PVPS' team is ready to meet all of your aesthetic needs. Non-surgical procedures can be fulfilled at our Ponte Vedra, Amelia Island, or Southside locations.
The physicians of Ponte Vedra Plastic Surgery perform the majority of our procedures at our own 12,000 square-foot state licensed Ambulatory Surgery Center in Ponte Vedra Beach. This state licensure, issued by the Agency for Healthcare Administration, is the highest standard of patient care and safety for outpatient surgery. All anesthesia is administered by M.D. Anesthesiologists, not nurses and all operating room staff are trained and prepared for medical emergencies. This state of the art facility represents a unique combination of beauty, art, comfort and safety in a single setting. Add to this the skill, training and experience of our physicians and you have the area's premiere center for cosmetic plastic surgery.
Location & Office Hours
209 Ponte Vedra Park
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL 32082
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Location #2
The Spa at Bartram Walk
108 Bartram Oaks Walk Drive
St. Johns, FL 32259
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Location #3
The Spa at Bartram Walk
108 Bartram Oaks Walk Drive
St. Johns, FL 32259
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Location #4
The Spa at Bartram Walk
108 Bartram Oaks Walk Drive
St. Johns, FL 32259
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Payment Options
Medicare, American Express, Discover, Visa, MasterCard, Patient Financing, CareCredit


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Part pre-fab home and part RV, Tom Kundig's mobile home 'Rolling Huts' are a tribute to the simplicity of rural Romanticism, much like their predecessor the Delta Shelter. While the Delta Shelter was originally intended as a retreat in the mountains, the owner of the home soon realized he needed temporary residences for his guests, and so commissioned Kundig, to develop a series of mobile counterparts.
Each hut is constructed from a 200 square-foot steel clad box that rests on a steel and wood platform that extends the structure with 240 square feet of covered deck space. Entrance to the huts is granted through a double-paned sliding glass door. The interiors are outfitted in cork and plywood, with walls featuring clerestory windows topped with a raised roof that floats at an angle over the hut. The exterior of the huts are finished with low-maintenance materials such as, steel, plywood, and car-decking that blend into the surrounding landscape.
To remain sensitive to their location in a flood-plain meadow or in an alpine river valley, the huts are raised a short distance off the ground, which was also necessary to meet the standards of zoning in areas of the valley that don't allow permanent homes. Clustered together much like a herd, Kundig's huts grant an unobstructed view of the mountains.
7 Comments
November 21, 2010 at 5:36 pm
How do I buy one? How much do they cost?
Can they be shipped?
August 27, 2008 at 9:31 am
I think that the frosting steel on the interior adds to the romanticism of the whole project. I like that the underside of the roof will mould when the steam from my tea condenses on the ice cold steel roof structure.
We\'ll all be laughing when little Jonny gets his lips stuck on the mtl framed sliding glass door as he looks out the window at the beautiful landscape.
Looks great in the picture, maybe it should stay there. This building will function magically in a climate that is no cooler than 50F or 10C.
August 24, 2008 at 11:44 am
Yes, beautiful. But of course I\'m imagining them with composting toilets, solar electricity and excellent insulation.
August 24, 2008 at 2:22 am
I agree with FutureRick. The night shot is fabulous. At first, I thought it was a rendered image. The architecture is simple yet profound, ideal for such a context.
August 23, 2008 at 10:44 pm
I love them, its good to see there are some poeple who dont want to change the beauty of the land scape but have blended the structures in wih it. Im a student at the otago polytechnic in New Zealand studying Quantity Surveying (Cost Estimating) and Project managment, and have found this website to be a create source of information and ideas. I have also shared this website with the sixty other students in the class as well.
keep up the good work and keep the enviroment safe.
August 22, 2008 at 7:21 pm
The simplicity in design is not only effective, but the lines of the architecture are so beautiful. I Especially like that Night Shot – I'm not sure if I'm in love with the Picture or the design. I'll say both! I can see this on the slopes of Vail or Breckenridge, cool stuff.


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Store address: Unit 9, 87 Reserve Road, Artarmon
Beer Cartel is Australia's (and Sydney's) beer specialist, where you can buy beer online that will leave your tastebuds forever changed! Beer Cartel provides access to a whole new world of hard to find beers, that you won't find in most pubs and bottle shops. Our beer store is home to beers from award winning breweries from Australia and overseas, including international boutique beer brands such as Rogue, Founders, Mikkeller and BrewDog, and Australian beers from Feral, Murrays and Bridge Road.
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|Topic Review (Newest First)
|This thread is old guys. Those of you who are giving pricing advice should know this.
|In my opinion, the price is not that bad for an ADA tank if you factor in how low iron the glass is, the silicon work, and even a little for the brand name and satisfaction of saying, "I have an ADA tank."
My only problem is tank prices. At the same time, I would be wary of trying anything cheap, wondering if they are cheaper because they are poorly made or cheaper because they found a way to just do it cheaper.
Then again, if Audi's and BMW's were as cheap as Hyundai's, everyone would probably own one LOL
This might help, my estimated cost for this shrimp setup will cost 130-175$
Rimless 7.5G cube (Looks like mr aqua) 35$ (after tax)
Finnex FugeRay 12" (Amazon) 44$
2 Bags of UP shrimp sand 40$
Plants (Carpet plants/background) 25$
Dual Sponge filter 2$
Old Air pump from 75G (Costed 15$)
That is about $161, I still need to get 10 CRS for about 30$.
Good luck!
|I recently set up a planted 5 gallon tank. Only cost me £50 which is about $75 for you. However, I already owned a spare tank, heater and rocks. The costs only included the plants, substrate, new lights etc. If you factor everything else in, it costed me about £153 which is about $230
|Francis Xavier
I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.
Some of the items, such as glassware and tools, are all handmade, and subject to extremely limited availability, even as a distributor. A lot of the specialty glassware only has a certain amount made per month, so if say we're talking about Cabochon Ruby, and if the craftsman can only make 50 Cabochon Rubies each month, then there's only going to be 50 for the whole world, including the three largest markets; Japan, China and India.
So for us in the States, on most of these items it requires a three month reservation on my part to obtain most of the glassware and tools. And we're not talking huge quantities here - we're talking 3 or 4 Cabochon Ruby's. So even in the case of cost for an item like that, we could throw as much money as we wanted at it, but it still wouldn't change that we can only get a hold of 3 or 4 at a time for the entire US.
In the end, you're talking about a very difficult item to make, to the quality it's made at, with expensive materials, expensive labor (Japanese labor for the most of the glassware, Super Jet, etc), and long time lines for a very limited world wide quantity.
You'd be surprised how many times even the seemingly simpler to make glassware, such as Pollen Glass Beetle 50, is just not available even at the source. It's not totally uncommon for there to be a good 4-5 month wait list on the most exclusive specialty items. The core of it all is, the manufacturing / crafting time is the same as it was in 2004, and demand is 10x higher than it was in 2004, with a saturated Japanese market and a rapidly expanding Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and European market. Speaking of Cabochon Ruby, it took me two years to get one (well, mostly because I put my customers first in line), and I freakin import the stuff. 70 bucks is cheap for that when you think about it from that perspective anyway.
So in a way, I can see how elitism comes into play a little bit here. We're talking about items where there might be only 20 of them in the whole USA for an entire year, or something that 0.00000006% of the population owns.
it's the ol' form vs function debate.
Everyone needs function, but some want more artistic form. And what one considers Art is personal.
|I don't think you understand the point everyone is pointing out. When you are passionate about the hobby, you want the best. For an ADA 45P, my lfs sells them for $89 so I have no problem dropping some money on a tank that nice. Simple truth is that ADA Aquasoil is the best out there right now, and it only costs twice as much as eco- complete. Sure with some of ADA's products their name raises the price some, but not like most things with big names. Comparing DBP and ADA is laughable. DBP has nice tanks but they are rimed, rimless tanks are just nice looking than a rimmed tank, so rimless has more aesthetic value. If you were to have a tank made with low iron glass locally, it would be around the same price, slightly less because the silicon job won't be as nice, and the low iron glass won't be as low iron as ADA, IME. If you want to rant on people that are worse, then go to the shrimp forum where they are paying 50 dollars a shrimp ( some even way more than that).
I have to disagree with a lot of people. I have a high tech 75g that I have spent just over $700.00 on. The tank and stand came used, but everything else was new. That includes two high end canister filters, and a pressurized co2 setup. If you shop around you can get exactly what you are looking for at a good price.
As for lighting: If you can hang a light then check out Aquaponics stores. I am going to be getting a new light soon for $140 for my 75g. It's a 4 bulb system with awesome reflectors, then I can sell my other light. They have 2-4 bulb systems that will fit well above a 10g and they are usually under $50 at my local shop. They are also T5 setups.
I guess it comes back to what you can afford and where you come from too. I have always been a middle of the road kind of guy. I don't buy the cheapest, but I also refuse in most cases to buy the most expensive. Some people throw money to the wind, some bargain hunt.
From what I know though, I don't think anyone buying the most expensive stuff for their tank setups is wasting money. In fact, my only major complaint is the ADA tanks. But do they look amazing? Sure do. I just have never seen, and probably never will, a real side by side comparison of a lot of this stuff.
Seems like reputation is king too. Everyone knows what is cheap, what is middle, and what is top of the line.
And that goes for a lot of things. Someone might build up their vehicle for speed and spend $1000 on something that may only gain them 1HP, and people would probably scratch their head at them LOL.
I considered an ADA tank I saw for sale on here. Even used it was still the same price as a Schruber Wright (sp?) or Aquatop LOL. But I would have taken it, just never heard back from the person.
And about the reef statement... what relevance does that hold? The type of your tank has nothing to do with the price tag, that only has to do with the quality.
Some of us are, admittedly, elititists. We're obsessed with only getting the highest quality products we can. Although some of the kits are nice (one of my first tanks was an Ebi), they're simply not the best.
That's all there is to it. Preference. There's no need to try to convert an ADA snob to become a low tech budgeted aquarist (not that there's anything wrong with that, as that's how I and many other people started), and vice-versa.
I like to reward the innovators.
Sure most pay higher for shipping but not much.
Maybe it is because alot of freshwater (American) hobbyist are stuck in the mentality to buy the cheapest thing that works.
You see, once someone has been in this hobby for sometime they no longer think of their tank as just a "fish tank" anymore, they don't mind spending the money for nice equipment, display size does not matter anymore in relation to amount spent. Well at least those who are serious about this do.
Like someone once said; "We are too poor to afford cheap things".
I see the need to go ADA. I've seen those aquatop tanks, they are not as nice and clean looking as ADA.
An eheim 2211 is the best filter there is in its size.
What a lot of you are missing is that the price does not matter. We are concerned with aesthetics. We are willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the best. Why get a good looking/functional tank and equipment when we can have the best looking/functional tank and equipment available.
You may be ok with the all in one kits, but I despise those ugly cheap things.
Like the genius just said, it's a matter of preference. I prefer to have the nicest nano available.
If I wanted a reef I would do a reef, but I don't want a reef.
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text:
Mission Type: Orbiter
Launch Vehicle: Atlas-Agena B (no. 2 / Atlas D no. 117 / Agena B no. 6002)
Launch Site: Cape Canaveral, United States, launch complex 12
NASA Center: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Spacecraft Mass: 306.18 kg
Deep Space Chronicle: A Chronology of Deep Space and Planetary Probes 1958-2000, Monographs in Aerospace History No. 24, by Asif A. Siddiqi
National Space Science Data Center, http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/
Like its predecessor, Ranger 2 was designed to operate in a highly elliptical Earth orbit that would take it into deep space beyond the Moon. Mission planners expected
that during five months of operation, they could verify both the technical design of the vehicle and conduct key scientific experiments to study the space environment over a
prolonged period. Since the Block I Rangers (Ranger 1 and 2) carried no rocket engine, they could not alter their trajectories.
On this attempt, Ranger 2, like its predecessor, failed to leave low-Earth orbit. This time, the Agena B stage failed to fire. In its low orbit, Ranger 2 lost its solar orientation and then eventually lost power; it reentered Earth's atmosphere on 19 November 1961.
The most probable cause of the failure was inoperation of the roll-control gyroscope on the Agena B guidance system. As a result, the stage had used up all attitude-control propellant for its first orbit insertion burn. At the time of the second burn, without proper attitude, the engine failed to fire.


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Finally, a BDU belt designed to fill the loops of BDU pants. The webbing in the Spec-Ops Better BDU Belt is thick enough to prevent roll-over and the custom-designed buckle facilitates easy, silent adjustments.
SIZES: Regular (24"-36") or Large (36"-46")
COLORS: Black, Olive or Tan
View Video Here
Instructions for the Spec-Ops Better BDU Belt


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Pots & Pans
Lodge® Camp Dutch Oven Lid Lifter$12.99The "T" bar design lifts a hot lid of coals and comes in handy when moving Dutch Ovens from fire to table. The lid stand can be used two ways—on one side it's a stand for your Dutch oven lid; flip stand and the lid can be used as a griddle. Learn More
Trail Chef Aluminum Cook Kit$89.99There's enough heavy-duty aluminum cookware here to prepare dinner for a whole troop. The 19-piece cook kit includes: 8-qt. pot 4-qt. pot and lid 2-qt. pot and lid 10 1/2" fry pan 9" fry panTwo fry pan handlesCocoa pot and lidFour 9" platesFour 8-oz. plastic cups Style of components may vary slightly from photo. Learn More
GSI® Glacier Stainless® 9-Cup Percolator with Silicone Handle$34.99Your perfect camp coffee pot is here! Seamless, ultra-rugged percolator is crafted from Glacier Stainless® steel for years of unmatched taste and performance. Learn More
GSI® Halulite Ketalist$34.99Classic, low-profile, one-person design provides the capacity of a 1-liter ultralight boiler in the easy-to-pour profile of a tea kettle for boiling water or melting snow. Learn More


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Description:Fujitsu 72.8GB U320 SCSI Hot-Plug 10K Hard DrivePart Number(s):Manufacturer Part# MAP3735NC
Overview:The Fujitsu MAP series disk drives provide outstanding storage performance for computing platforms such as workstations network file servers and enterprise servers. A rotation speed of 10 025 RPM reduces the average rotational latency to 2.99 ms. Minimizing rotational latency and seek times are the key factors that improve system response time in demanding transaction processing applications.
CategoryFujitsu HardDrive
Part NumberMAP3735NC
Products ID456468
Hot Swap TrayNot Included
Capacity72.8 GB
Height1.0 inch/2.54 cm
Width4.0 inch/10.16 cm
InterfaceUltra320 SCSI
Data Transfer Rate320 MB/s
Seek TimeSingle Track 0.55ms
Seek TimeAverage 4.9ms
Seek TimeFull Stroke 10.0ms
Rotational Speed10K
ApplicationServer Storage
Backward CompatabilityU2 and U3 speeds
Pre-Failure WarrantyYes
Data Storage Device TypeSAS ( Server attached storage)
Hard Drive Device TypeHard drive for server/storage unit


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