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DUNLOP March Cookbook of Month: Preserves & Stocks
Land of Plenty has a chapter named: Stocks and Soups and one for Hot Pots. Revolutionary Chinese has Preserves and Stocks. All those posts go here, from salted chilis to chicken stock.
Salted Chiles
This is not the time of year for the farmer's market, but I really did want to try something besides sambal oelek when using a few of these recipes. So, I went to the only place that would have fresh red chiles (but unfortunately not the "very" fresh which she specified). I happily acquired 49 cents worth of red jalapeños and chopped them up. I noticed as I did so that there is a reason she has you chop the bottoms off as well as the stems. On one specimen, you could see a very small mark at the bottom tip. It must be that with age this develops right at that small indentation there. Perhaps it can become moldy there?
Then, I added my salt. Here is where I made a wrong assumption. I used Kosher salt because I always use Kosher salt for brining or preserving or draining type operations, like, say for cabbage. But she does not specify this, so fifteen minutes later I realized what I had done and went back and added the appropriate amount of salt, so it would be salty enough. Interestingly enough, the size of my chiles has already shrunk by a fair amount. The liquid forms very quickly. These may be very salty indeed.
She says to store it in a cool spot. Does this mean not the refrigerator, at least until the two weeks are up? I couldn't decide. So for right now, it is in the fridge. If anyone has input on that, let me know.
Oh, as you can tell by the price, I made a half batch, and used a suitably smaller container with that. I felt that they would not keep as long, given that they were only fresh and not very fresh.
I must say I found this easy and cheap. Well, the part that wasn't easy was getting *red* jalapeños. I can't wait to see how this tastes, given that it hasn't a whiff of vinegar in it. I suppose the only other drawback is having yet another oddity in my tiny fridge. I already have trouble telling my concoctions apart and tend to stuff my vegetables on top of my condiments or in any old nook...I managed to stuff the chiles into that spot where people keep butter and the like, the enclosed spot at the top of the door. I'll have to pry it back out in two weeks.
re: saltwater
saltwater, I'm so excited you tried this--I hope to, soon, but am not going to have time probably for another several days. I'm afraid I can't answer your storage question, but here's a thread on Dunlop's salted chiles that, perhaps, might? http://www.chowhound.com/topics/427327 I quess we'll have to wait for another 2 weeks for the results...
re: The Dairy Queen
I'm going to make them today - still trying to figure out "which" red chilis to get! About to go peruse some other threads.
re: MMRuth
Here's a blog post by someone who made it with cayenne peppers:
And here's another blog that also seems to be using cayennes.
When I was in Chinatown last week the only fresh chiles I could find seemed to be the Thai chiles, which Dunlop says are way too hot. Maybe it's the wrong time of year?
Anyway, I think I've decided to go with cayennes. At least they shouldn't be too difficult to find. I'll be eager to hear what peppers you decide to use.
ETA: Oops. I see I forgot to post the second link:
re: JoanN
I have an RSS feed for theTigers and Strawberries blog abd find her instructions spot on. The next time we go to the market I intend to get the cayennes and make the salted chilis too. Since I have a rather large wal-in pantry which is uninsulated thus more like a buttery, that's where I'll be able to store the jar. And to think I used to start the seeds for cayenne chilis to grow in my garden.....
She recommends using surgical gloves and a mask to keep the contact with capsicum oil and breathing of fumes at a minimum.
re: Gio
I have disposable surgical gloves but have been rather lax about using them. This morning I noticed that some of my fingtips were swollen and I had some itchy bumps on the side of my pinky finger. It took me a while to figure out I had contact demeratitis from the capsicum in the chiles. I don't know whether or not this is common, but I'm definitely going to be careful about using the gloves from now on. Good advice. Now, I just have to remember to follow it. ;-)
re: MMRuth
No, afraid JoanN wasn't able to track down any cayenne peppers. Just came back from six (six!) markets and all I found were jalapenos and habaneros. I wonder if they're seasonal--or just unpopular. Back to the sambal oelek in the meantime.
re: MMRuth
As discussed here and elsewhere in the COTM thread, there has been a pretty good discussion and recipe for the salted chilis here on Chowhound. Called "The Universal Condiment".
I made my salted chilis right after I read the thread, since it inspired me so! I bought a bunch of different kinds of red chilis - Thai, and others whose names I can't remember. The condiment is wonderful.
You should taste your chilis before making this condiment, since jalapenos can be totally bland and tasteless around this time of the year.
Re chili suppliers: I had the immediate vision of a dark alley with a guy in a trench coat....."Psst! Lady! Wanna buy some chilis?"
re: The Dairy Queen
Thanks for the link TDQ. I see someone had their chiles go moldy and they surmise it could have been the same problem I had...accidentally using Kosher salt. Good thing I fixed it.
re: saltwater
I made the salted chilies weeks ago, using tiny red peppers I found in Chinatown. No need to put them into the fridge until after the 3rd week. Just keep them in a cool dark place until then. I divided her recipe into two glass jars. Not all of the salt dissolves. I found at the end of the 3rd week I just mixed them up and put one of the jars in the freezer with some plastic wrap on top of the mixture to help keep the air away. It is salty but you don't need a lot. I've used it in her Steamed Chicken with Salted Chilies and a very tasty Spicy Coriander Salad that is already a big hit around here.
re: scoopG
Do you think you used bird chilis (just don't remember ;-) ). Thanks.
re: MMRuth
They were all that I could get - these tiny red ones. Not sure what they are called! But it worked for me...actually better in a way as they were not too large when cut up.
Also - I would not worry about the colorization problem on your wok there. I have one of these cheaper models from Chinatown i.e. the $15 model, not the $5 version and it is certainly not cast iron. I even use brillo pads on it if needed and I may be slammed by some purists now for that!
re: saltwater
I finally made the salted chilis too, better late than never. They take two weeks, so I should have time to try a couple of recipes using this ingredient before the end of the month. The only fresh red chilis the Asian market had were nice-looking packaged red jalapenos, so like saltwater that's what I used. I did taste one, and they were nice and spicy. I used sea salt (coarse Pacific sea salt from Penzey's).
Recipe link:
re: saltwater
Success! They are bright red, intensely salty, with a sour note, and a strong chile or fruity flavor. They are hot, but not as hot as sambal oelek teaspoon for teaspoon. Perhaps that is because they are coarsely chopped and not crushed up, or more likely, because they are jalapeños. I tried them in a recipe that I had already made with the sambal oelek, and I felt that I will need to try again using more salted chiles next time, perhaps one and a half the volume. I chopped them a bit finer for the dish after I measured them, because I was worried that the flavor would not distribute as well as it had with the sambal. I was correct that it was less well distributed, even though I had given them a few extra chops. It was a noodle dish, and the pieces sort of accumulated on the bottom of the pile. The bottom of the dish was better than the first few bites of the dish. This could be a function of the dish, though. In this dish I sautéed the noodles in plain oil first, removed them, and then did the rest of the ingredients, so the chile flavor did not have a chance to flavor the substantial amount of oil that penetrated the noodles.
I think at least on the bottom of the dish it added more flavor than the sambal oelek did. Less heat, and decidedly richer flavor. These could clearly be used in a variety of situations, so long as the extra salt can fit into the dish. I bet they would be very nice with fish.
Oh, I ended up pulling them out of the fridge and storing them in a cooler place (root cellar-like, maybe 53 degrees F) for the two week fermentation. Now they are in the fridge.
re: saltwater
Fantastic! Thank you for updating us!
re: saltwater
Salted chilies (RCC, pg. 283)
I can see why this is the universal condiment. I used thai chiles (the ones that are about 2 inches long) and these became incredibly fragrant. I didn't read the recipe as closely as I should so I didn't cut off the ends. I saw no ill effect from this.
re: beetlebug
Fantastic! Thank you for reporting back!
re: beetlebug
I was late making mine and they're just now ready. You and saltwater have me really eager to try them. I used Thai chiles as well. Did you also find them somewhat less hot than whatever you'd been using as a substitute? They sure look fiery in the jar!
re: JoanN
I just started looking at RCC so haven't used any substitute (sambol oelek) in place of the salted chiles. They are a little fiery but oddly enough, not as salty as I thought they would be. I suspect it would be spicier than the sambol oelek. I did put a little of these on my dumplings and it went great with the dipping sauce.
re: beetlebug
Ah. Good to know about the dipping sauce since I still have some dumplings left in the freezer. That'll be a quick and easy way to try it out. Thanks.
re: beetlebug
Good idea! My salted chilis are ready and sitting in the refrigerator, but then I realized that the recipes using them are in the RCC book. I'll have to try to find some recipes on-line, but until then I'll use your great idea of eating them with dumplings - I made the cabbage and pork dumplings this weekend (report to follow) and have a few more left in the freezer.
A couple of items for the pantry:
Everyday Stock - Xian Tang (Land of Plenty, p. 318).
She suggest two pounds of pork bones and one pound of chicken wings/backs, etc. I wanted to make a big batch so doubled the ingredients. At the Asian market I picked up 3 lbs of pork bones and then a package of cut-up leg quarters since they were cheaper than chicken wings. The smallest package was around 3 lbs, so I ended up using equal amounts of each. Simmered all this for about three and a half hours with water to cover, smashed ginger, and scallions.
Ground Roasted Sichuan Pepper - Hua Jiao Mian (LOP, p. 74)
Whole Sichuan peppercorns (I used Penzey's) are toasted in a pan/wok and then cooled, ground (I used a coffee/spice grinder) and sifted.
re: Rubee
I made the Everyday Stock a few days ago with a pound of pork neck bones and 2 pounds of chicken necks and backs and it's a completely different color from yours. Mine looks more like dirty dishwater than your lovely pale yellow. It tastes fine, and seems to be working well in recipes; I'm just surprised at how different it looks.
re: JoanN
I wonder, perhaps your stock became cloudy, which is what "dishwater" conjures for me. I've had trouble, especially with pork, obtaining a very clear stock. Pork really seems to throw off blood and proteins that coagulate in the pot. It helps to never stir the pot, ever, to skim the pot well at the start, and to only simmer, not boil the liquid during the long cooking. Simmer means like a few tiny bubbles raising up, but the surface of the liquid is just sitting there, calm. Also, if you aren't straining the stock, when you decant the liquid, leave the bottom cruddy few tablespoons in the pot, if you have any, and try not to overly disturb the bones as you decant. Any of these ideas could help some if it was cloudy.
Pork stock is delicious!
re: JoanN
Korean and Chinese cooking have quite a few similarities (as well as some huge differences). When using any bloody meat/bones, we usually either soak in cold water for a couple of hours, or par boil the bones and discard the first boil liquid.
This results in a clearer broth/stock.
Quite a few Chinese cooks that I have known do the same.
re: JoanN
That's interesting JoanN. I agree - I was pleasantly suprised by how golden it got, especially with simmering pork bones (which BTW don't smell half as nice as stock made from just chicken). I did rinse the pork bones twice in very hot tap water (tossed under running hot water in a strainer, blotted, tossed and rinsed again). I don't remember where or how I learned that, but maybe that made a difference; and it sounds similar to the techniques hannaone and saltwater mention above. It was also the first time using cut-up leg quarters from the Asian market. Not thighs/drumsticks but leq quarters cut up in about 2-inch pieces.
re: hannaone
I made an invented soup tonight using fresh noodles left over from my noodle dish a couple of nights ago.
The base was her savory stock.. Adding unpeeled ginger, bay leaf, a tiny bit of 5 Spice Powder (I am THOROUGHLY SICK of star anise flavor which many of our local Vietnamese restaurants overdo), cassia bark, etc.
I had some leftover COSTCO roasted chicken and chopped that up. Also had some braising greens from my CSA box. Added both of those. Dollop of sesame oil, teaspoon of black bean/chile sauce. Very good indeed. It even seemed restorative, but that was probably all in my mind.
That broth/stock is outstanding. No photo because it didn't look that great.
Pickled Chili Paste (LOP, p. 56, 376)
Dunlop says that "The Sichuanese simply pound their pickled chiles to a paste, without adding garlic or any other flavorings". I pureed them in a food processor. I used Thai pickled chiles which were about 2 inches long (not the tiny inch-long ones she says to avoid), and looked similar to the picture on p 129. The main ingredients were chilis, water, and salt. Just to be sure, I tasted and compared the heat level of the puree with some sambal oelek, and the level was similar.
re: hannaone
Once again - good to know tips from the pros!
I did know that. Learned the hard way a few years ago. Thank goodness DH learned from my mistake. I read somewhere that it's a good idea to wear surgical gloves and a face mask. But I have not done that yet.
Sweet, Aromatic Soy Sauce (fu zhi jiang you) - LOP, p. 76
Dunlop calls this a "little culinary secret" that is used in certain Sichuanese sauces, and I agree. She says it keeps indefinitely, and I'll be keeping a batch of this slightly sweet, spiced soy sauce in the refrigerator from now on. I simmered soy sauce, water, brown sugar, ginger and spices - cassia bark, fennel seeds, star anise, and Sichuan peppercorns (all from Penzey's). After 20 minutes this is strained. I had made it earlier as an ingredient for the dipping sauce for the Zhong Crescent Dumplings (p. 100) for dinner, but it was good as is too - I ended up drizzling it over some left-over roasted chicken and salad greens for lunch. Good stuff, and now it's going to be one of my "culinary secrets" too.
re: Caitlin McGrath
Here you go!
1/3 cup dark soy
2/3 cup water
6 Tb brown sugar
1/3 of a cinnamon stick or a piece of cassia bark
1/2 tsp fennel seeds
1/2 of a star anise
1/2 tsp Sichuan pepper
1 small piece of crushed, unpeeled ginger
Bring all ingredients to a boil in a pot, stirring to dissolve sugar. Turn heat down and simmer for 20 minutes. Strain and cool.
Chili Oil - hong yu (LOP, p. 55)
I've been using Lian How chili oil - soy bean oil and chili - but finally got around to making my own. Basically, peanut oil is heated (I added the optional crushed ginger), and then poured over chili flakes (I added the option of one star anise). If using whole chiles, she says to "fry them with the seeds in hot oil until crisp", and then crush in a mortar or food processor. After I did this, I had a bit less than the half-cup the recipe calls for, so threw another handful of chilis into the processor without frying. The oil is heated with the ginger, then allowed to cool to 225-250. She suggests using a thermometer, which I did. I poured this over the crushed chilis in a glass jar, stirred, and let it cool. She says that the chili flakes will settle to the bottom. Most did, but some floated to the top. I think it was the chilis I didn't fry, so next time I won't skip this step. I'm looking forward to using this homemade chili oil in future recipes!
re: saltwater
I just tried it, and didn't really notice the star anise. OTOH, I took a breath in when I opened the jar and was coughing ; )
Good question re: heating the oil. I'm not sure. Maybe it's so that the crushed ginger will infuse the oil at the higher heat? However, I have to say that I didn't really notice the ginger either; though probably should have used a bigger piece.
re: saltwater
Ha, you'd think I would have learned by now!
re: Rubee
Yes, thanks for the report. We are way low on chili oil and with two serious chilihead pups in the house, thats not a good place to be. I think I will try this out on the weekend but thanks to your warning, I will do it when my spouse is out of the house--he can't deal with chili fumes At All.


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- Anna Kazcorowska
- Oslo
- Norway
This conversation is closed.
History tends to repeat itself. Empires rise and fall in a vicious circle of greed, tribal thinking, prejudice, misunderstandings and envy.
Empires, organisations and companies rise and fall, new are created, get competitors and fall or not, change and evolve, or fall again. People tend to be seduced by either organisations, ideas, tribes, values, often without questioning their source, wondering why they get seduced or what the intention, goal, purpose or competence of the seducer is.
But in the end, it's facts that are more important than fiction.
Or, as they say in NY, true facts.
Do the tedsters have any stories, thoughts or insights about this? Links can be provided.
Excuse my being young and colloquial but... Share or be square..
Jim Ryan
May 3 2013: For every move there is a counter, when greed laziness and self, end up destroying. If man ever does the right things for the right reasons in the correct manner, mankind will advance incredibly fast and war will not be necessary.May 7 2013: Why are we so tired after being born?
- +2
Is it because we have come from a very long distance away?
Perhaps, but once here, and for the duration of our time on this planet,
we seem to have not come very far.
But, it isn't human nature as to how we behave. That is such a false and easy way out to avoid really looking at the reasons or causes for our behavior.
Humans have many choices on how to respond to their environment. If it were solely human nature and that a limited one, namely to the types you, Anna, listed, then that is how we would always behave, me thinks.
But we don't.
I believe first of all, that what we believe is false. "It's human nature." Nope. It is a perversion of our nature because so many are not getting their needs met and this was also true many years ago. "If we forget history, we are condemned to repeating it." Well, when one cannot remember, then one cannot repeat. If one person or a people repeat what they cannot remember, then that is a sign they have been brainwashed. So, look at those who push the idea of not forgetting, and that is how and why we repeat our history. That kind of propaganda is generally done by those in power, going way, way, back because it is in that kind of unjust system whereby they keep their power through manipulating the masses.
So, yes the fighting, rising, falling and so on go on and the changes never get started.
The system, from the very beginning was unjust and still is.
Thus, it can never be made just and a new and just system must be created and implemented.
It cannot contain the reasons for corruption or greed, or crime.
The only way to do this is to attack the causes and eliminate them.
This is not what humans do. They are misled into all kinds & various forms of ills that all come from one or two single causes, but they are told again and again, it is human nature and can never be changed. So, most look no further and struggle to find a way to accept or go crazy. Going crazy is to remain sane in insanity.
May 8 2013: "The only way to do this is to attack the causes and eliminate them."
...remembering that "how" is also an important question.
"Going crazy is to remain sane in insanity. "
A really nice summary, thank you. It probably doesn't apply to all types of "crazy" but maybe...
May 8 2013: Anna.
I meant, "So, most look no further and struggle to find a way to accept or go crazy. Going crazy is to remain sane in insanity. "
In that respect, as a kind of response to the pressure to be and think like everyone else.
Because most are insane, the pressure is become like them, insane.
The definition I am going by for insanity is, "to not know the difference between right and wrong, good or bad, true or false."
Most today, do not.
Mitch SMith
May 4 2013: Anna,
- +1
It's a spiral - you already know this ;)
You go around .. and next time is similar - not the same.
At the point of similarity - everything can change, and the wheel is on another cart .. one time around? Two times?
Up to you - .. the universe does not insist on rotations - it insists on change.
You can go from 1 to 7 - there is no rule of sequence.
Here is a riddle:
In the absence of life there is only rotation.
What have you done to be alive?
Here you are.May 3 2013: Whether it is 564BC or 1412AD or 1984, human nature is simply the same through the ages.
May 3 2013: depending what "human nature" means.
for example in 1500 europe, setting a cat on fire and watching die was considered a good joke. today, you can barely find people that would find that entertaining.
May 3 2013: Yes; but violence is still considered entertaining.
May 3 2013: violence has a degree. today, we only entertained by mild or obscure violence, like sports, movies, or "antiterrorist" attacks. i'm okay if in the future, people will enjoy the former two and just abandon the third.May 3 2013: Similarly in 1500 Europe nobody could have entertained the idea of gawking, over a bowl of pop corn, at a screen with pictures showing a robotic airplane destroying property and life in real time.
Sense and sensibility change. Human nature may not.
May 3 2013: are you sure about that? do you think that people in 1500, given the opportunity, would not watch the hell out of such a show?May 3 2013: Human nature changes and shows change as the flow of information and knowledge change. Sometimes you just have to wake up and smell the difference, not only the coffee.
Best wishes.May 4 2013: @ Kris : Honestly, no. But that reinforces my statement that basic human nature either doesn't change or if it does, it does awfully slow - and our sense of 'change' or its pace is more imagination than fact. Actually, such hopeful optimism springs forth from a belief that 'humanity' is something independent of the environment where human beings evolve.
And dear Anna, I woke up one day smelling the coffee. It smelt of blood, sweat and tear of people who just were used and dispensed like livestock for centuries to bring me the morning luxury.
Have you seen a 'wish' for many of us to look at nature as something benevolent nurturing us? Like a mother? Nothing can be more wrong than that. Nature is cold, relentless, unforgiving. It permits no excess. Its multitudes and abundance are not a divine gift of eternal kindness, it is a result of life's proliferation to survive. We can at best learn to live with it intelligently. End of story.
There is a limit after which we cannot pretend that the human drama with all its values, morality and ethics is primal - simply because we are animals, however advanced, in a huge biological reality where we are surviving. All those dark things that Anna mentioned in the OP are dark only because we shine a surreal light of human nature on life.
History, IMO, will keep on repeating as long as we demand that the human nature has a supernatural decree of being kind, compassionate, altruistic and sacrificing sitting within an environment where violence is one primary tool of survival. Religions doped us for millenia in that direction.
I agree with Anna in one point. Change will come when we are informed with knowledge. When we realize wars will not stop by kindness, wars will stop when we understand it is a zero sum game. Same for envy and greed.
This is a moral question basically. We need to change morality to break the repetitive cycle.
May 4 2013: no it does not reinforce. we just established that out of two terrible activities 1500 self would happily do, we only would do one. that is progress.May 4 2013: "We need to change morality to break the repetitive cycle."
...while not forgeting that those who lack the moral sense do not lack it because it's their choice. They were taught to lack it, had no other choice but to lack it or were seduced by concepts or ideas that didn't include moral sense.
Australia is an interesting example - all troublemakers of England were sent there as a punishment, but their punishment was actually their freedom. Now see how they're doing. It was an accidental social experiment, but very educational.May 4 2013: That's another ambiguous word, that 'progress' :) So you mean we are progressively repeating history! I thought it was not yet 70 years from the holocaust? Please don't mistake cosmetic dressing for health.
May 4 2013: you seem to be the person that can't tell the current state and the rate of change apart.May 4 2013: No. I am the person that can tell the current state and rate of change both but not the direction you seem to be indicating. And I am sure you know how in a circle the state can change at a given rate and the implication of direction, don't you?
May 4 2013: you can tell it contrary to all evidence. nice job. but i'm not interested in oracles.May 4 2013: "you can tell it contrary to all evidence. nice job. but i'm not interested in oracles."
Neither do I because Neos are not out there... ;) What I'm interested in is a lot of other things.May 4 2013: I hope you are not citing history as 'evidence' :) Oh you are being so predictable Kris!!
Ok let's sing a song?
how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
May 4 2013: Its too bad that all you can offer is supposition.May 3 2013: ...and let's not forget that we are all Africans.
May 4 2013: I hope you're joking.
May 4 2013: She is not, at least to me. Or you and I have very different sense of humor.May 4 2013: At some point .. but the evidence seems to say we are Basque.
But before that we had low foreheads .. or were little elves.
The trumpet of the future is not much wider than the trumpet of the past.
But the tune gets played in the instant - it makes us dance.
DO we dance in circles?
Not often. There is rhythm, but it is the beat of questing/dancing feet, not the beat of machinery.
We dance .. our feet touch the ground and we know what the ground is .. not what it was .. who cares what it will be?
Just dance ;)
May 4 2013: Thanks, Mitch.
I do hope you dance and know the ground, I hope others dance too, just not in circles ;)
"who cares what it will be"... some people have to ;)
Ride the helix while not forgetting that to ride the lightning is still kind of cool.
Best wishes.May 5 2013: Well .. lightening is a fractal helix if you are to believe the electric universe guys.
For myself, I believe that everything is composed of inflections of time.
We are necessarily vain. A self cannot be not-self.
There is a Boolean truth that empowers the double negative above the simple positive.
For instance, you will find that computers work mostly from "not-gates".
The next step of the dance is dictated by the ground of the current step plus the persistence of the dancer - best to leap over the fire than into it ;)
May 7 2013: And my humble question in response to all this is - what next?May 8 2013: What next?
If you are not already - leap over the fire .. not around it. Use your intelligence to not land in it.
How does this translate into specifics?
well - what context did you have in mind?
May 8 2013: Thanks, Mitch.
I meant the specifics.May 9 2013: @ Anna,
One can cut up the universe to fine dust - and the dust into atoms and the atoms into strangelets with spin this way or that.
But the important specific is the one between think and do. Between potential and actual.
What you ask is the hardest question of all.
SO .. I say jump over the flame.
What is that? It is surrender to your passion - taking the risk that your passion will burn you up.
Anna - what is your passion? What have you done to realise it?
And then - when you go to realise, you suddenly know that you don't know how.
And then a magic thing happens - the way to do starts to come into your life.
The steps materialise beneath your feet, and people bring the skill to you.
You gain the skill .. and you do a little, then as the skill grows .. you do a lot.
And then you look around and you see that you .. in turn .. have provided the way for others.
The fire grows high, and some leap and some burn.
Just do it.
(edit .. I am not the king of the world .. but I know what a king is. There is only one Anna Kazcorowska in the universe - no one else can do the job of being Anna Kazcorowska. Be the king of you - that is your work, and your work alone .. the better you do at it , the more kings you will meet - that is the only specific worth talking about)May 3 2013: I don't see history as I used to see when I was younger. Historians traditionally report big events and important people. Events about cultures, societies, kingdoms, wars, revolutions - what we mean by 'turn of history' is something significant involving these big events and significant people. Also, historians write history colored by their time, perspective and cultures. There are many instances of historical accounts written differently by historians of different cultures and time.
But, it seems to me, there is a life of small people, of small events and of small importance that flows on. To what extent history tells these small stories, I am not sure. But do these stories tell nothing significant?
History repeats itself and some say it does so because we don't learn from it's lessons. Who are these 'we'? Important people in control of big events or the faceless multitudes of humanity of all time and place?
I study rivers. Rivers change course. But when I zoom out temporally over spans of centuries, I see patterns and oscillations. Perhaps if we zoom out temporally for human civilizations we can see such patterns - patterns of starting from scratch, building up, reaching a pinnacle and falling down and again starting from scratch.
I want to hope that the life of small people, of small events and small stories will slowly see this pattern and they will write a different kind of history one day which will not repeat in same folly time and again.
May 3 2013: "Everything will be allright in the end. And if it's not allright, it's just not yet the end" :)
May 4 2013: Oh I am sure it will be Anna. In the end, all I can ask is three and a half hands length on ground. Or may be just an urn if they insist I am Hindu. :)
May 3 2013: I once heard that although history does repeat itself, it is more like an elongated spiral than a circle. It's directional, either up or down, forward or back. Our 'classic themes' repeat, but we're evolving. I prefer to see it as 'up'.
- +1
May 4 2013: Thanks RH, this is one of the research topics of great interest to me ... not as a preferred approach or perspective but as some historians and researchers are trying to demonstrate that perhaps the evolution of man and history of civilization do have cycles and waves but there does not seem to be a circle ot actual repetition as anna has posed in the root question to this conversation ... there seems to be more of a progression upwards ... though the same research shows we are about to hit the very peak of the progression upwards .... i wish i could attach a wave chart here but essentially over time and history starting only from 200,000 years ago, the development of civilization and mankind has progressed to where it is now in a exponential manner as opposed to a straight line progression, which is also similar to a parabolic curve phenomenon if the vertex is placed at dead south .... so homosapiens (technically homo sapiens sapiens) has started its growth in the earth only the past 200,000 years while other species for example the extinct homnids have had a longer (in the millions of years) history ... so technically history has not repeated itself but there is a level of repetition manifested though not of history itself but of particular elements and some elements grow or evolve and some fall away but again this appears to be a process rather than a cycle or circle ....
May 6 2013: Yet, 'classic themes', or underlying dynamics of intention or activity motivation do seem to ebb and flow throughout human history - and I believe the intention of this conversation is 'human history', not geological. For a while, we are enlightened, then another time, we are barbaric. Then it repeats. There does seem to be a cyclical-ish repetition on a societal scale. I would agree that the progression seems 'upwards'. I would also agree that it's now exponential, and I would relate that level of growth to our technological developments, which have only begun to impact our development as a species - in my opinion. Thanks for your response.
- 0
Zdenek Smith
May 2 2013: Yes history has interesting stories about rise and fall of empires and organizations.
- +1
I think there are two main reasons for this: illegitimate leadership or failure to adapt to change.
Nowadays some of the new "empires" like USA, European Union and organizations like Google and Amazon are less likely to fall and might be with us for very long. For example, Google constantly adapts and even leads change.
Keith W
May 16 2013: Humans arent Rational in the way we assume we are. In the Post-Aristotle era we tend to have this standard of logic by which we measure everything accordingly, but the truth is that isnt how nature wired us. Our psychic physical social emotional and sexual needs trump this concept of rationality which we ascribe to ourselves. Our emotions are proxys that have serious evolutionary benefits. I dont know if any of that makes sense in relation to your question but i guess im saying is that people are ultimately very similar and both the best and worst in us is at least indirectly tied to our adaptions. History repeats itself because people make the same errors over and over when they act on their instinct rather than reason.May 8 2013: Nice to meet you Anna Kazcorowska!
- 0
An excellent question.
I guess one reason would be (just to say this is a pure hypothesis!) :
People just can't seem to learn their lessons. In the way due to the "Optimism bias" we may view that we are more likely to succeed then the last generation (or anyone else). And then we end up making the same mistakes as them. Or we may just not be able to admit we "made a mistake" (due to our "social image" and "Cognitive Dissonance" theory!). And due to our many irrationalities.
Another reason could be the gene pool doesn't change fast enough for any real "change" to happen. So we just go in endless circles, and that all "Memes" eventually die.
The last possible reason I can think of is this :
We like to conform of to belong to a social group. And as many experiments reveal that we often change our "perception" as to the "group perception" once conformity takes place. Once a rival group comes along with a different perception, then a battle of "ideologies" may ensure. One will probably win, or they will both just have to be tolerant of eachother.
Thanks Bernard.
Hope I helped (and didn't get too sidetracked!).
May 8 2013: Nice to meet you, Bernard, I also talk to myself at times. I agree.
Fear, especially justified fear, is also an irrationality, or one of them, but it can be proved that also fear, which is there to protect us, can be used to do something positive.
"Once a rival group comes along with a different perception, then a battle of "ideologies" may ensure. One will probably win, or they will both just have to be tolerant of eachother." - I'm not into battles anymore and I've never been into playing any apart from in digital games to help release some tension, but they are still interesting to be listened to/viewed. Thanks.
It's good that cognition/perception of others change. Otherwise everybody would be in trouble and just repeating history.
May 8 2013: What's your opinion on this matter?
When I was talking about ideologies, for instance there is a sort of battle (in the loosest terms of the word) between "Creationism vs Evolution". (Evolution being the factually correct one, as I think we both know!)
So I'm not really sure whether the history of "Creationism" will repeat itself (unless we lose the knowledge of evolution!)
Actually I'm interested :
What do you mean when you say "History tends to repeat itself"?
May 8 2013: What do you mean when you say "History tends to repeat itself"? - I forgot to add "but it doesn't have to" ;)
Cheers.May 7 2013: Hi Anna,
First, don't apologize for being young. I don't .
Now, why do homo sapiens continue to repeat history. I have studied this problem for some time and I may have come upon a theory, I can't prove it yet, but hear me out.
I think that each new generation looks upon the past generation(s) and see the errors of their ways. The new generations assume that since they are descendents of previous generations they must have a greater intelligence and can resolve problems better then their ancestors. Filled with a sense of superiority, the new generations undertake the same processes, operations and activities of their ancestors and make the same errors and having the same outcome. Now, they will tell the next generation about the mistakes they made, the errors of their ways and not to get over confident but the next generation will dismiss them because they are smarter.
May 7 2013: The next generation will dismiss the mistakes if they actually are smarter, and not just "Filled with a sense of superiority" - this is feeling, not thinking.
May 9 2013: The point is that the next generation is not. Smart as a measure of intelligence has not ever changed
Man has more information now then before, but we are no smarter.May 7 2013: First of all, Id like to start questioning the definition of 'facts.' Do you honestly believe that an ordinary human being has access to facts or is he/she being manipulated by the press, the media, the government most of the times? Things that we perceive as being facts might simple be mere fiction. Albeit the manipulation is not as loud as it had been in previous times but it continues to exist, which was clearly demonstrated by the Wikileaks scandal that had occurred. Furthermore, there isn't a direct empire anymore... there aren't direct colonies. However, there are nations in the world that dominate.. that have formed several alliances. And that the nations who do not join the alliances are considered as being direct threats. The falling of empires such as the European Union was clearly demonstrated during the recession where history did repeat itself. Several developing nations such as China now continue to rise. Thus, there definitely has been a shift in power over the former years
May 7 2013: I agree with what you're pointing out but I still wonder about the following: 1. an ordinary human being that wants to have access to facts will get them one way or another. We are influenced by the media, the press, the government, some are manipulated, but change is constant 2. Did EU fall? I need some new media 3. China has always been there, it is developing, but I wouldn't call it a rising nation, correct me if I'm wrong. There has been a shift of power - the shift of debt and influences, but is it between the nations and nations only? I'm not convinced.May 6 2013: Hi Paul,
"Facts more important that fiction? Perhaps not. It may be that belief is the most important of all. It seems to motivate most people, without much regard to whether it's factual or fictional - and the latter may be predominant and therefore most "important."
It probably depends on situation and stage of your life. If fiction that other believe to be true influences or can influence your life, facts can be helpful/must be taken into account, for example in the legal system, medicare and many other areas. I do see your point though, beliefs can give hope and positive change, but can also lead to problems and tension.
En hilsen fra OsloMay 5 2013: Live locally, that's where happiness happens. In the end, it's your home life that matters. It's always fun to discuss Spenglerian notions of cyclic (evil) empires, but it's hardly worth stressing over. While it's true that we should learn from the past, imposing perceived past patterns of civilizations on the future would have the same success as predicting the stock market from past patterns - not much, in other words. We just don't know the future, and we don't know when, where and whether history repeats itself, even though we can always pick out such seeming patterns in history - after the fact. It's a little like finding fulfillment of past prophesies - a piece of cake.
Facts more important that fiction? Perhaps not. It may be that belief is the most important of all. It seems to motivate most people, without much regard to whether it's factual or fictional - and the latter may be predominant and therefore most "important."May 4 2013: As replied to RH below about progressivity and comment to Mitch^s spiral theory ... just sharing that this is one of the research topics of great interest to me ... not as a preferred approach or perspective but as some historians and researchers are trying to demonstrate that perhaps the evolution of man and history of civilization do have cycles and waves but there does not seem to be a circle ot actual repetition as anna has posed in the root question to this conversation ... there seems to be more of a progression upwards ... though the same research shows we are about to hit the very peak of the progression upwards .... i wish i could attach a wave chart here but essentially over time and history starting only from 200,000 years ago, the development of civilization and mankind has progressed to where it is now in a exponential manner as opposed to a straight line progression, which is also similar to a parabolic curve phenomenon if the vertex is placed at dead south .... so homosapiens (technically homo sapiens sapiens) has started its growth in the earth only the past 200,000 years while other species for example the extinct homnids have had a longer (in the millions of years) history ... so technically history has not repeated itself but there is a level of repetition manifested though not of history itself but of particular elements and some elements grow or evolve and some fall away but again this appears to be a process rather than a cycle or circle ....May 3 2013: always a msytery and the question of cycles or expanding reality which is einetein's thesis ... see also teilhard de chardin's phenomenon of man ... http://www.rosemike.net/religion/serm_ess/misc/phenom10.pdf ...
a great topic of research and expansion of knowledge and progress seems constant despite some cycles within periods ... humans that is homo sapiens are recent and short in period inhabitants compared to other species already existing or have existed for millions of years ..
May 3 2013: Nice try.
Regards.May 4 2013: There are so many scientists using pure conjecture to support more conjecture, while blaming religion for the same. Its pure delusion to think science will get more than a few converts in the end. So many that claim to understand science, while they use religion to hide behind, because they have only cut and paste, you know.
:-)May 3 2013: Two of the most documented areas in history are politics and religion. Both are soaked in blood. Both are still with us. I could make a case for how religion and politics have used the others (culture, organizations, tribes, etc ... ) to gain favor and used as control measures.
In the TED forum the majority of the community are atheist and super liberal .... the bulk of the comments to your conversation will probally be directed toward trashing religion. However, the most dangerous and influential of the two is politics .... not that religion isn't politics ... it is.
" People tend to be seduced by either organisations, ideas, tribes, values, often without questioning their source, wondering why they get seduced or what the intention, goal, purpose or competence of the seducer is. " This single thought is the crux of the conversation.
Constantins the great changed the world through the Council of Nicaea but it had little to do with religion but almost all to do with politics.
People are followers ... and more importantly timing is everything. Could the lying, stealing, unfaithful, cheating and immoral politicians of the last decade have been elected in the mid 1900s or earlier? Probally not. Those earlier politicians were just as bad ... just not as public and unrepentative as todays politicians.
So here is the question to you. Why do we, the people, allow this. Are we that poorly educated ... Do we not read and heed history .... what is the reason and what is the cure?
I wish you well. Bob.
May 3 2013: So here is the question to you. Why do we, the people, allow this. Are we that poorly educated ... Do we not read and heed history .... what is the reason and what is the cure?
Thanks for the comment, Bob.
The answer is sheer, pure and plain - revisionism and appreciation of the people who had enough curiosity to start the trend, not more naivety and egoticism to bow to the adoration of propaganda.
One of my diseases is "intolerance of glorified ignorance". And I wish more people would suffer from it.
May 4 2013: Anna, So that I may better understand .. what is "glorified ignorance"?
Thanks Bob.
May 4 2013: On "Glorified ignorance":
One of the most important questions to ask is, among others, what don't I see. Some people claim they see but do nothing. Others see but cannot do anything. Those who can forget that they can do something to stop the madness and bask in the glory of their black cards, suits and superficial beauty, sigh at the injustice, while pretending that they are doing something. Their "pretending" may be naivety, may be clinging to old ideas or egos, it may be a lot of things, but what is important is the truth, morality and a proper implementation of both.
I don't do much nowadays which seems improper to some people, but it's the result of their own lack of awareness or knowledge.
The Mother of All Depressions hath spoken.
Thanks, Bob.May 4 2013: I get the jest of it. In the USA it is easier to throw money at something that to get involved and solve it. Corporation, movie stars, rich and famous, etc .. lend their name / money to a project at the advice of image consultants and/or agents and both take a healthy write off on taxes. To these people image is everything.
I listen to interviews of film people and athletes and shake my head. These are the super rich of today and don't have a clue. Politicians are even worse ... they make promises that there is no way to keep and set up more benefits for themselves. Put a honest hardworking housewife in that position for one term and the crap would stop.
I think I too may suffer and share your aliment.
Anna take it from a old guy ... your not the M O A D you are aware and involved .. I wish everone was.
I wish you well. Bob.May 4 2013: We are threatened with our jobs and without jobs, our children are threatened. Its not ignorance, its fear. With religion, there is some safety. With politics, there is safety, but both demand obedience or else.
May 4 2013: Depends what the obedience is - if you get safety and live in security because you abide by the law - good. If you are listened to, are able to pursue your interests while not being threatened by others - good. If the law doesn't threaten you - that's how it should be. I believe the laws should be international and standards of them should have morality, wisdom and reason at their core.
I see your point though, fear is difficult to deal with.
May 4 2013: By your words, you have been sheltered. Of course that's nothing against you. Ya gotta live the opressions to know them, from the very many directions and the more you see, the more you recognize.May 3 2013: yes tell this to every single person that believes in organized religion.
May 3 2013: I'm trying, believe me.
"Religion is opium for the people" but few know that this was actually meant in a positive way - give people some opium of hope because life is full of adversity and injustice, but hope should be hope together with wisdom. It should not turn into institutions that misuse both and lead to abuse of both the concepts and people who are fed with those concepts while still allowing to be abused by them.
In British English you say "bring up", in US you say "raise" in context of education, the difference is not only linguistic, but also semantic and this goes for all cultures and more or less institutionalised religions or organisations that produce propaganda of aggression or prejudice.
Charles Curt
May 3 2013: yes i agree but i would have literally not problem with organizations like this if they took no money and recourses from the people. If an organization is truly for the good of it's people it would never harm them by taking what they worked hard to get.
- +1
May 3 2013: Wise words. Thank you, Charles.
"If an organization is truly for the good of it's people it would never harm them by taking what they worked hard to get."
Don't harm anybody, don't allow others hurt or harm you. And working hard should never be underestimated or underapprieciated.
Sorry fot the typos.May 3 2013: I agree, R H, but before we can aspire 'up' it's good to have an unbiased analysis of what tends to bring us 'down' in the first place.May 2 2013: to deal with this, i think we have two possible ways: get smart or get diverse. smartness would involve analyzing past mistakes, monitoring the situation, learn and understand all the underlying system dynamics. but that approach gets you only that far. sooner or later you make a mistake, you overlook something. the other solution is get diverse. if we do not have an empire at all, it can't fail, can it? and if we have millions of small-mid companies, failure becomes part of the solution. failure is just a way to learn what not to do. failure is an automatic stop to an strategy that does not work so good.
ps, "Excuse my being young" - no way, there's no excuse for that.May 2 2013: I think you will like this TED talk: Simon Sinek: How great leaders inspire action
Seeing that you're from Norway and because I have been learning a lot about them recently during my ancestry search, I'll use the Viking culture as an example. To me Vikings were a lot like TiVo in that they great technology (About 200years ahead of the rest of Europe) and a great code of ethics (The Nine Noble Virtues), but they failed to inspire. Unlike the more primitive but inspire Catholics, who seduced and thus won the culture competition.
So sadly it is inspiration instead of facts, that wins.
P.S. Where would America be if not for the inspiring idea of "Freedom for all"?
May 4 2013: P.S. Where would America be if not for the inspiring idea of "Freedom for all"?
Where would Australia be if the troublemakers of England who were sent there as punishment got their freedom and built a society, using the skills that they learnt while having to react to biased system of government? Where would India be if they didn't have to react to British power? Where would Norway be if they weren't between a rock and a hard place for centuries? Where would Poland be if they weren't between the East, the West, the North and South, i.e. rock and hard places? "God's playground" is an interesting work of history about the latter. I'm not being egotistic while I'm typing this in, just trying to give a different perspective(s).
All in all - I don't buy it, Don, sorry. It's a simplification, but I support "freedom for all" with all my heart, gut, frontal lobe and broken bones in my body.
"So sadly it is inspiration instead of facts, that wins." - so let's take both, concentrate on facts and truth, science, cause and effect, combine them and add some drama so that the effect will be both awesome, interesting, cute and...add some more adjectives, please, but please avoid too many versions of "sad", I've had enough of that, trust me.
Thank you, Logos and Mythos bless you, and best wishes.

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February 2008
Product Reviews / Main Nibbles / Meat & Poultry
Maple Leaf Farms Duck
A Glossary Of Duck Types & Preparations
This is Page 2 of a four-page article. Click on the black links below to visit other pages.
Duck Breeds & Preparations
In addition to White Pekin ducks, Muscovy, Moulard and Mallard ducks are also marketed in the United States. Different duck breeds are better for different products.
The most popular breed in the United States is White Pekin or "Long Island duckling." This is what is typically used for "roast duck" at most restaurants, and found in supermarkets. America has other favorite eating ducks and duck parts. Many begin with an "M"—no wonder it's confusing! Here's a basic "duck glossary" to help you master the choices.
By the way, duck is an all "dark meat" bird; it has no white meat.
To others, this argument seems moot, as the bird is raised for slaughter and not longevity; and ducks and geese have long gullets that can accept a feeding tube without pain (think of a pelican swallowing a fish). In fact, visits to a duck farm that produces foie gras will show the ducks (which are free-range) waiting for their human feeder each day, and quacking in anticipation of their meal.
Another term for the white Pekin duck.
The Muscovy comprises 3% to 4% of U.S. duck consumption, and is the only domestic duck breed not descended from the mallard. The species is named after the Muscovy Company, which began shipping the ducks to Europe in the mid 1500s; The meat is leaner than the fatty Mallard. The foie gras industry in Israel reportedly uses a Muscovy-Mallard hybrid. There are wild Muscovy populations in parks in nearly every state in the U.S. and Canada, where their aggressive begging for food and their droppings cause problems.
MUSCOVY: Think breast and liver.
Called canard à la presse or caneton à la presse in French, pressed duck is an elaborate dish developed in the 19th century at La Tour d'Argent restaurant in Paris. In brief, the duck carcass is pressed in a device like a wine press to extract all of its juices, which are then cooked into a sauce with the minced liver and served with the breast. The legs are broiled and served separately.
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So - I start a hobbyist welding class tonight. Instructed to bring home project - aside from probably building a cart for a welder I plan on purchasing - I thought of maybe a mount for the front of a lawn tractor that was removable that I could sit a blade air blower on for clearing the lawn - saw a similar contraption on a grass tractor walking into work yesterday - thinking even that a step up would be a mount that swiveled via joystick (like my snowblower) to turn left and right. Question is - anyone already do this? I searched the forum but no luck with my search terms. Going to hit up google now - as I know imitatino is the sincerest form of flattery - so why reinvent the wheel - just improve it a little! thanks all.
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SAR analysis of GM-Tri-DAP induced IL-8 secretion in MCF-7/NOD1 cells - Set 2
The modulation of immune response activity is one of the major goals in the development of novel therapeutics for auto-immune and inflammatory diseases. The innate system resides at the intersection of the pathways of microbial recognition, inflammation, and cell death, thereby offering various therapeutic targets. In this context, NOD1 and NOD2 are of particular interest, since they recognize distinct structures derived from bacterial peptidoglycans and directly activate NF-kB, a central regulator of immune response, inflammation, and apoptosis. ..more
BioActive Compounds: 8
Related Experiments
Data Source: Sanford-Burnham Center for Chemical Genomics (SBCCG)
Source Affiliation: Sanford-Burnham Medical Research Institute (SBMRI, San Diego, CA)
Network: NIH Molecular Libraries Screening Centers Network (MLSCN)
Grant Number: 1 R03 MH084844-01
Assay Provider: Dr. John C. Reed, Sanford-Burnham Medical Research Institute
The modulation of immune response activity is one of the major goals in the development of novel therapeutics for auto-immune and inflammatory diseases. The innate system resides at the intersection of the pathways of microbial recognition, inflammation, and cell death, thereby offering various therapeutic targets. In this context, NOD1 and NOD2 are of particular interest, since they recognize distinct structures derived from bacterial peptidoglycans and directly activate NF-kB, a central regulator of immune response, inflammation, and apoptosis.
The NOD proteins participate in the signaling events triggered by host recognition of specific motifs (mostly, muropeptides) in bacterial peptidoglycan (PG). Upon activation, NODs induce activation of NF-kB, a central regulator of immune response, inflammation, and apoptosis. NOD2 is a general bacterial sensor that participates in the innate immunity against Gram-positive bacteria (S. pneumoniae, L. monocytogenes), Gram-negative bacteria (S. typhimurium) and mycobacteria (M. tuberculosis), while NOD1 recognizes mainly Gram-negative bacteria (E. coli, Chlamydia, H. pylori). Prior studies have shown the muramyldipeptide (MDP), a PG component, stimulates NOD2 activation in cells, while Ala-gamma Glu-diaminopimelic acid (GM-tri-DAP) stimulates NOD1, thus providing convenient, synthetic ligands for activating the proteins in intact cells.
Interleukin-8 (IL-8) is an important mediator of the immune reaction and a major chemokine involved in inflammatory responses. Recent studies have indicated that Gamma-tri-DAP induction of human breast cancer epithelial cell lines MCF-7 over-expressing NOD1, combined with small doses of cycloheximide (CHX), specifically induces IL-8 production and release (da Silva Correia, 2006; da Silva Correia 2007).
Gamma-Tri-DAP induced IL-8 production assay in MCF-7 cells is developed and performed to test if the primary and confirmed hits which putatively affect NOD1-mediated NF-kB pathway. NOD1 specifically detects Gamma-Tri-DAP, a tripeptide motif found in Gram-negative bacterial peptidoglycan, resulting in activation of the transcription factor NF-kB pathway. Here we used GM-Tri-DAP to induce IL-8 secretion in MCF-7 cells. (Girardin,2003).
This dose response assay is developed and performed to confirm hits originally identified in "uHTS luminescence assay for the identification of compounds that inhibit NOD1" (AID 1578) and followed up in "SAR analysis of compounds that inhibit NOD1" )AID 2333) to study the structure-activity relationship on analogs of the confirmed hits. Compounds are either acquired from commercial sources or synthesized internally.
Girardin SE, Boneca IG, Viala J, Chamaillard M, Labigne A, Thomas G, Philpott DJ, Sansonetti PJ. Nod2 is a general sensor of peptidoglycan through muramyl dipeptide (MDP) detection. J Biol Chem. 2003 Mar 14;278(11):8869-72.
Girardin SE, Jehanno M, Mengin-Lecreulx D, Sansonetti PJ, Alzari PM, Philpott DJ.Identification of the critical residues involved in peptidoglycan detection by Nod1. J Biol Chem. 2005 Nov 18;280(46):38648-56.
da Silva Correia, J., Miranda, Y., Leonard, N., Hsu, J., and Ulevitch, R. J. Regulation of Nod1-mediated signaling pathways. Cell Death Differ, 14: 830-839, 2007.
da Silva Correia, J., Miranda, Y., Austin-Brown, N., Hsu, J., Mathison, J., Xiang, R., Zhou, H., Li, Q., Han, J., and Ulevitch, R. J. Nod1-dependent control of tumor growth. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 103: 1840-1845, 2006.
1. MCF7 cells stably overexpressing NOD1
2. GM-Tri-DAP (Sigma)
3. IL-8 OptEIA ELISA set (BD Biosciences, San Diego, CA)
4. SpectraMax 190 spectrophotometer (Molecular Devices)
1. Compounds were diluted in DMEM 10% FBS plus Pen/Strep (culture medium), and 10 uL were added into respective wells (96-well culture plate) to reach desired final concentrations.
2. GM-Tri-DAP was added, in a final concentration of 5.4 ug/ml, to a culture medium suspension of MCF-7 cells (3,6x10+5 cells per mililiter).
3. Pre-induced MCF-7 cells were added into the respective wells (140 ul per well) and kept at 37oC (5% CO2 incubator) for 24 hours.
4. Thirty microliters of culture medium was used to measure IL-8 production using an IL-8 ELISA kit from BD according to the manufacturer's protocol. Briefly, 96-well ELISA plates (BD Biosciences) were coated with 100 uL per well of Capture Antibody diluted in Coating Buffer (100 mM Sodium carbonate, pH9.5) for overnight at 4oC. The wells were washed 3 times with 200 uL Washing Buffer (PBS with 0.05% Tween-20) and then blocked by 200 uL Assay Diluent (PBS with 10 % FBS) at room temperature for 1 h. The wells were then washed 3 times and 30 uL sample and proper amount of standards were added. The plate was sealed and incubated at 4oC overnight. After 5 total washes, 100 uL of Working Detector (detection antibody + SAv-HRP reagent) was added. The plate was then sealed and incubated for 1 h. After 7 total washes, 100 uL Substrate Solution was added and the plate was incubated for 30 min at room temperature in the dark. 50 uL Stop Solution was added and absorbance was read at 450 nm within 30 minutes on a spectrometer SpectraMax 190 (Molecular Devices). Absorbance at 570nm was subtracted from those of 450nm and data was analyzed.
5. Absorbance values were converted to IL-8 amounts (measured as pg/ml) according to standard curve analysis.
Compounds were tested 0-25 uM
Compounds are considered active if they resolve to an IC50 < 10 uM.
Four substances were tested twice and their results averages: 85285636, 85248350, 85248352, 85285600
To simplify the distinction between the inactives of the primary screen and of the confirmatory screening stage, the Tiered Activity Scoring System was developed and implemented. Its utilization for the assay is described below.
Activity Scoring
Activity scoring rules were devised to take into consideration compound efficacy, its potential interference with the assay and the screening stage that the data was obtained. Details of the Scoring System will be published elsewhere. Briefly, the outline of the scoring system utilized for the assay is as follows:
1) First tier (0-40 range) is reserved for primary screening data and is not applicable to this assay
2) 2) Second tier (41-80 range) is reserved for dose-response confirmation data and is not applicable to this assay
3) Third tier (81-100 range) is reserved for resynthesized true positives and their analogues
a. Inactive compounds of the confirmatory stage are assigned a score value equal 81.
b. The score is linearly correlated with a compound's inhibitory potency and, in addition, provides a measure of the likelihood that the compound is not an artifact based on the available information.
c. Summary equation that takes into account the items discussed above is
Score = 82 + 3*(pIC50 - 3),
where pIC50 is a negative log(10) of the IC50 value expressed in mole/L concentration units. This equation results in the Score values above 50 for compounds that demonstrate high potency and predictable behavior. Compounds that are inactive in the assay or whose concentration-dependent behavior are likely to be an artifact of that assay will generally have lower Score values.
Categorized Comment - additional comments and annotations
From PubChem:
Assay Cell Type: MCF-7
From ChEMBL:
Assay Format: Cell-based
Assay Type: Functional
Result Definitions
* Activity Concentration.
Additional Information
Grant Number: 1 R03 MH084844-01
Data Table (Concise)