text:
That positions looks covered for quite a few years
Oscar Exterbarria was the ass man's pick for the youth last season so it looks like he does know what he is doing.
Welsh Wizard - The only thing I really need now to are decent winger and another forward as those who been surpassed and replaced by youngsters are constantly moaning so I've been looking to sell them off.Another decent MC will be handy so I can rotate them more.With that,the team should be covered for the next 15-20 seasons.
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - October 2024
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
Another two top class performances from the team in the Champions League saw us win 6-0 against Young Boys before showing Bayern a lesson in finishing on their own turf as we won 4-1.The league gave us no challenge what so ever,not even Real Madrid could cope with us,it has been far too easy.There is no way that we can't go the season unbeaten.We faced Sanse in the Copa del Rey,although my attacking force was near it's strongest ability,I decided to play a back five of Oscar Exterbarria (GK),Yon Exterbarria (DR),Inaki Aguirre (DC),Juan Prieto (DC) and Andreas Savvidis (DL).Out of those five Aguirre was the oldest at 18!Sola was his usual self as he bagged 17 goals in 6 games to take his tally to 52 goals in 16 games.
I don't see November being that challenging,we have home ties against Bayern Munich and Panathinaikos in the Champions League in which I think winning one of those will see us through.We have the 2nd leg against Sanse in which we have a 8 goal advantage so safe to the say that we are pretty much through.In the eague,we only have three games,we face Almeria,Getafe and surprise package Las Palmas.Not too bothered about Almeria and Getafe but I do have to be extremely careful with Las Palms,their manager is very shrewd and very rarely pays out over the top for players.The most he has paid for a player is £8 million for a Chilean international!I feel we can do it but I need to start stamping out complacency in the players during games.
Last edited by B.W.G; 10-07-2012 at 18:52.
Romping it this season already, B.W.G.!
Now I hope you laid in to your defence after they conceded that goal- just not good enough
Cheers fella I did,we conceded it in the first game of the season against Valencia and since then we have only conceded goals to Bayern in the Champions League!
Standard start to the season for you now . Some great results in the CL though!
Pretty normal for us,I think the Champions League was a tougher group then expected but we have gotten through with relative ease.As for the Copa del Rey,we went in for the kill straight off against Sanse but it ended up being overkill!
Was the first time I have ever hit double figures in a game for Vitoria (although I have done it three times with Spain!)
Wow. Now that's domination.
Great start as always
22-0 on aggregate! Surprised it took you that long to get double figures.
cerud - I have had more dominant games in possession wise but never have hit double figures before.
Scarman - We've been alright I guess
deltablue - I gave my youngsters at the back some game time,they were that bored of defending,they were providing assists!With the squad I have,I am actually quite surprised by it myself.
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - November 2024
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
We did brilliantly in the Champions League as a brilliant win over Bayern was followed by a destructive performance by Sola in our 9-0 thrashing of Panathinaikos which has seen us through to the knockout stage and we've won five out of five.The Copa del Rey turned out to be a walk in the park as we won 14-0 on the night to clinch a 22-0 agg victory,we will now face Real Sociedad in the next round.The league had the good,the bad and the ugly,the good was beating Almeria in style,the bad was the performance against Las Palmas where they actually outplayed us but our counter attacking got us off the hook.The ugly was the draw against Getafe and now we have to deal with At.Madrid right behind!
December could end up being a busy month,we have tough games against Barcelona and Athletic as well as easier games against Jaen and Deportivo.The group stage finale against Young Boys in the CL as well as the CWC in which I will be looking to win it again.Sola has been Sola,he has scored 74 goals in 22 appearances which is absolutely staggering,I actually do believe he will beat last seasons record of 150!
In Liga BBVA related news,Barcelona have sacked Pepe Mel and hired Inter Milan manager Pep Guardiola!Guardiola has not been seen at the Nou Camp since 2012 and is thrown right into the deep end as his first game back in charge is against us in the league!
Last edited by B.W.G; 04-07-2012 at 09:54.
Spain - The road to Mexico 2026!
World Cup Qualifying Group
Manager's Thoughts
The usual has come from my Spanish side,the one who will go out the way to destroy teams in competitive action and then not really perform like they can in friendlies bar the exception which is Iker Sola.Needless to say,we have practically qualified for the World Cup in Mexico after performances like these,the only nation I have not faced in qualifying so far is Cyprus but I don't really see them being a threat and we should have qualification wrapped up in June 2025.Iker Sola was on fire as usual and now stands on 99 goals in 53 appearances for Spain so he needs just the one goal to become a centurion for his country in which he will more then likely get in 2025.
Just the one friendly against the Dutch before we have qualifiers against Cyprus and Lithuania.We will also compete in this years Confederations Cup which should be straight forward with us,Argentina,Germany and Mexico making the semi finals!Hopefully my players will treat it seriously and not like the matches in friendlies!
Last edited by B.W.G; 11-07-2012 at 10:23.
I love how every monthly report includes that monthly Sola report
He's that good that he has to have his own mention,he even gets his own end of season section
Walking things with Spain.
I've already decided to leave Spain after the 2026 World Cup as it is getting too tedious and I reckon anyone could manage this Spain side
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - December 2024
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
We did what we do best and that was winning.We finished off the CL group with a 4-1 victory over Young boys which gave us a perfect record,we face PSG in the Knockout round.The CWC was it's usual walk in the park,we scored fifteen in the competition in which Sola scored 7 of them while own goals was the next highest with 4!The league was simple as,we beat Athletic and Jaen with ease and I decided to give my entire first XI the day off against Deportivo,even our 2nd XI can match some Liga BBVA sides with Diez getting the only goal of the game.
January is here and we've sold two more players,Alfonso Azpiroz was sold to Sevilla for £5.75 million which is good considering I had loaned him to Athletic for the last two seasons for £750k a time.The other player to leave was Eriz Uranga who was sold to Valladolid for £1 million,Uranga made 373 appearances for Vitoria,is sad to see him go but it's only fair that he gets first team games.Three more could be leaving during the window,Iturri will be going out on loan to Bayern,AC Milan or Porto,youngster Borja Santano could be going on loan to Girona.Finally 4th choice goalkeeper Daniel Lekue could be leaving,accepted a loan offer from Elche but also accepted a bid of £750k from Las Palmas and £450k from Sporting.I am half expecting a bid for Javier Barandiaran has he handed a transfer requested and is wanted by Valencia.
As for competitions,the Copa del Rey kicks off again,we face Real Sociedad,I will field a strong squad to get it over and done with.At.Madrid is the toughest game we have to face in the league and it is a must win to get rid of them from challenging us from the title.We also have games against Villarreal,Zaragoza and Valencia but I'm not exactly threatened by any of those teams.Sola currently sits at 90 goals in 28 games which is phenomenal and has only missed the one game so far this season.
Last edited by B.W.G; 05-07-2012 at 20:40.
Will u ever return to spain's national team if the next manager screws it all up? Are u number one in the rankings?
Have you ever played others in SOla's position? Just wondering how they have done in similar circumstances.
Any chance of a tactic download?
B.W.G, you should seriously consider try conceding 0 goals all season as your next challenge, since this is all getting too easy.
Sola is from another planet. He's not human. He's godlike.
Sola, brilliant, etc.
Btw make sure to go by the records thread because at the moment Sola leads with only 106 goals there, 150 is a better figure. Making it 53 goals more than the 2nd placed player.
Last edited by noikeee; 05-07-2012 at 07:07.
Sola .
You dropped points!
[c] - Not a tactic I created.....I personally can't stand Cena!I was glad Rock whooped his and ass
buzz2k7 - I seriously doubt it,maybe in the 2040's but it will be 6 years in charge of Spain when I leave which is long enough for now.It will take along time for the next Spain manager to mess it up.We've mainly been number one in the World since 2022,we did have a spell between January and June 2024 in 2nd.
cerud - I have tried,Aitor Iturri doesn't seem to be able to play as the lone man up front as he seems to be a support striker.Ander Diez normally can and is the 2nd choice lone striker.
Rayvon2 - I got the tactic from someone else but it doesn't appear that it's downloadable where I got it from.I'll put it on a site and pm you the link.
rancer890 - Try for 0 goals conceded!!I've not even had an unbeaten season yet.There are no words for Sola though.
noikeee - He is definitely one of a kind I forgot about the records,I'll wait till the end of this season as I feel he can get more then 150 goals this season.
SRL88 - Awesome isn't he Seeing as your a Liverpool fan,I'm going to tell you straight,you may see me end up at Anfield sooner rather then later,a lot of financial difficulties have led to a serious downfall,all the way to league 2.Have been tempted to take them over and continue with my youth only policy.
deltablue - ssssshhhh!No one must know.
Last edited by B.W.G; 05-07-2012 at 17:56.
Liverpool's hanging around in League 2....yikes, that is a fall.
They are currently in 9th and are challenging for a playoff spot.Swansea have fallen as well but they are fighting relegation in League 1.
Last edited by B.W.G; 05-07-2012 at 19:59.
In a bit of sad news relating to Vitoria,I have decided to sell Javier Barandiaran to Valencia for £6.5 million (only because I have a good relationship with their manager )
It was also quite touching as he then responded with this
Thanks B.W.G. that would be awesome
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - January 2025
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
Brilliant in the league and 2nd leg of the cups,poor in the first legs of the Copa del Rey.We put five past Villarreal and Zaragoza in the league while I have no idea how we only scored two against Valencia when we could easily have had five.Real Sociedad were no problem for us in the Copa del Rey,a late equalizer from rodriguez in the first leg against Valencia spare our blushes before Sola single handedly destroyed them in the 2nd leg to see us through to the semi's where we would face Real,suspensions to two players and injuries to both of my 1st choice DC partnership saw us put a weakened side out against Real,we should have won.We had the better chances,hit the post and had two disallowed.I can't blame Sola as he was suspended and Diez had no luck with the officials who were complete ***** to sum it up nicely.We are now without another 3 players who are suspended for the 2nd leg!
I sold Barandiaran to Valencia and then we lose both Romero and Bodipo to injuries both of which are three weeks.I've had to play Yon Extebarria at right back,moved Inigo Santos to centre back and play Inaki Aguirre at Centre back as well while Andreas Savvidis has had game time and really impressed in the Copa del Rey game against Real Madrid.February has one really difficult game and that is against Real Madrid,we have the Champions League kicking off again and we have the easier tie of P.S.G.League games are not really that threatening as there is only really Malaga who stand the best chance against us due to the formation they play.As for Iker Sola,he has scored 103 goals on 34 games by the end of January and has missed two more games this month (rest against Real Sociedad - 2nd leg and suspended against Real Madrid).
Last edited by B.W.G; 06-07-2012 at 13:29.
Probably a minor mistake there but the Real Madrid cup game isn't on the screenshot. Pretty bad month given recent standards, because you failed to win one game.
Good spot,it's now corrected Wait till you see February,we lost to Celta of all teams...damn complacency!
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - February 2025
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
We were absolutely fantastic in the cups,we finished Real Madrid off in style as we won the 2nd leg 4-1 and will now face their City rivals At.Madrid in the final of the Copa del Rey.We have a massive advantage going into the 2nd leg of the CL as we took apart P.S.G 7-1,what made it sweeter was the fact that it was at their ground so we have seven away goals.I have mixed emotions about the league,I was over the moon with the Espanyol game as Sola scored 4 and set up Perez,I was also satisfied with the Malaga game as their keeper keep it down to three.We were very poor against Sporting,all that victory did was paper over the cracks of the poor performance.Then there was the Celta game,I do not even know what to say other then their goes my ambition of going the season unbeaten.We were complacent in Midfield as they messed everything up and didn't care and that left me feeling bad for Sola who had to try and conjure something up out of nothing!
March is here and we have two very tough games in the league,we face At.Madrid on the 5th before facing Real Madrid on the 8th.I need to get something out of these games as At.Madrid are only 6 points behind us so it is pretty close going into March.The rest of the league games shouldn't be too challenging,but as you saw against Celta then complacency could screw us over again.We have the 2nd leg of the CL and I it's pretty safe to say that we are through to the quarter finals after our first leg performance.With March being here,it brings my favourite day with us....Youth Candidate day.Would love some attacking players to help bring the next generation through,no specific positions just attacking players.For Sola watch,he has 40 appearances and also 116 goals,at international level he passed the 100 goal barrier as he netted a hat-trick against the Netherlands to take his tally to 102 goals for Spain.
Last edited by B.W.G; 10-07-2012 at 11:46.
Aiming for 150 with Sola this year?
Unless he picks up the scoring,I think he will fall short but still get around 140.
When Sola gets the ball do you stop watching because you know it will be a goal?
Of all the teams to stop you, it had to be Celta At least Vitoria fired up after that, the next two games were pretty convincing
Not a bad result against PSG in the CL
cswalk08 - He doesn't always score with every shot He has scored 29% of his shots this season,he has hit 124 goal out of 420 shots but probably has had about 20 goals disallowed on top of that!
Scarman - Also lost to At.Madrid in March which turned the pressure up slightly but it was embarrassing losing to Celta.They were the performances we should have put in!
JackJCFC - It ranks up there as one of my favourite victories in the CL
Blimey... you lost a game
I'd never thought I'd see the day where an international striker averages (almost) three goals a game!!
I lost two this season but ssssshhh,can't let the chairman here you
He is pretty much unstoppable when he is up front on his own.When there is two up font,he doesn't always seem to play as well as he can!
He needs 24 goals to to hit 150 so looking at things now,he may be able to achieve so only he can decide on how many goals he wants
I've been a lurker but haven't posted. Good job on what you've done! Hopefully I'll have a Sola of my own one of these days
Thanks very much Mexico always produces some brilliant talent so I won't be too surprised if you get one
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - Youth Candidate Day 2025
The Candidates
The Prospects
1. Israel Alcantara
2. Jose Luis Bueno
3.Igor Calvo
Manager's Thoughts
Alcantara is definitely the undisputed choice of the Youth Candidates especially seeing as he has a rating of 1 gold star already,he is also one of 12 MC's the club where he is the 7th best so that tells me all those below are getting sold off as I have too many.Up next is Bueno,it is a rarity to see a player who can play both AML and AMR as well as having either for his favoured foot so he will be very useful in the future.Calvo is the first striker we've had through in three intakes I think,he will make a useful backup in the future,he is described as a poacher which is interesting as I've not had one before,I will get Sola to tutor him as he has the same personality.....short tempered!
A thing which interest me is Alcantara is the first pure Spaniard through as there is no Basque in him.Another interesting fact is that they all have hair,earlier in the save they were mainly coming through bald as young as 15 and now they are coming through with hair!I honestly think we are set for a long time and in some cases like the MC position,I will be looking to sell some players as we have far too much competition for two spots.
Last edited by B.W.G; 25-07-2012 at 12:52.
More cracking youth, Vitoria just pumps them out!
Bueno is amazing. I got so excited in my game to finally get a big youth prospect, then I come here I find out both your first two prospects are better, and it's not even anything out of the ordinary for this academy.
Oh good, now Sola has some midfield playmates.
Scarman - Even one star potential ability normally classifies them as a decent Liga BBVA player so we had six players who could potentially play in top flight.
noikeee - Bueno is a curious one for me,not had a player in his position who can use either foot so I hope it pays off for him but he will be very handy in the future.
deltablue - He had some anyway but it will freshen things up and make it easier to rotate.
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - March 2025
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
As good a month as that looks,the defeat against At.Madrid has really cranked up the pressure as they didn't lose a single game and are only 6 points behind us with nine games to play.The victory over Real Madrid was very impressive considering Sola was banned for it so Ander Diez showed why he can be regarded as 2nd choice for the lone striker role.Sola was at his best as he put Sevilla to the sword with a 6 goal haul.We finished P.S.G off in the CL to win 9-1 on agg and we will now face our title challengers At.Madrid in the quarter finals.
April is a massive month for us,we have the return game against At.Madrid in the league as well as the CL quarter final ties with them.We also have to face Athletic and Barcelona in the league this month and these games will definitely help decide where the title ends up.We have Jaen,Getafe,Villarreal and surprise package Las Palmas which we must remain unbeaten against them as the pressure has been well and truly cranked up,we must not let all our hard work get undone done now.Sola has single handedly kept us going in the title race,if it wasn't for him then we wouldn't be where we are,he has 130 goals in 46 appearances.He needs 20 between now and the end of the season to equal last season but it's going to be a close call if he is to do it.
Last edited by B.W.G; 10-07-2012 at 15:33.
Luckily the one time you lose your match is not televised hehe
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - April 2025
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
The league title is now wrapped out as we won it on the 30th April due to results going our way even though we were in action in the Champions League.The draw againsr Getafe was acceptable as I played none of our first XI,the oldest player on the pitch was Mikel Rodriguez at 23 years old,that match also saw appearances from Alcantara and Bueno.The rest of the matches in the league showed our dominance,however the game against At.Madrid was a mismatch just like the 2nd leg in the CL as they were missing seven players due to injuries in both games.We got through to the Semis of the CL as we beat At.Madrid 6-1 on agg,we've got off to a good start in the semis as we beat Spurs 2-0 but we will have to do the 2nd leg without Sola who will be suspended!
May is now here and we will have a minimum of five games to play,we have three league game as well as the Copa del Rey final against At.Madrid.We have the 2nd leg of the Semi-Final where we have a slight advantage but we have to see it through to make sure we get to the final.The winners will face Juventus or Man Utd (Man Utd lead 1-0 after first leg!).Iker Sola is close to breaking his own record last season,he currently has 147 goals in 54 appearances,he needs three to equal last seasons tally so I am now expecting him to beat it.
Edit: Due to a limited amount of time at the moment,I will be basically doing all updates month by month.With May being the final month,I will show the top scorer and top of the assist chart as well as the final league table as well as screenshots for the Copa del Rey final and CL final.
Last edited by B.W.G; 10-07-2012 at 16:10.
It's like your players show off for the cameras
Just looking back at more fixtures and it seems they do,no wonder why we do so well in the Champions League as all our games are always televised
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - May 2025
May Fixtures
Final League Table
Important Matches
At.Madrid 0-2 Vitoria - Copa del Rey Final
Vitoria 3-0 Man Utd - Champions League Final
2024/25 Transfers
In order to start bringing the next generation through,I have sold some of the whiners off which has also helped with the financial side of things as well.Baradiaran was the most high profiled as he played 414 times for the club.This has been the most productive transfer window,could have made more then £21.5 million but didn't want things to drag on.
Player Analysis
Players Stats
Top Scorer - Iker Sola - 159 Goals
Most Assists - Miguel Angel Rodriguez - 79 Assists
Manager's Thoughts
We ended the season with a bang as we captured the Copa del Rey and the Champions League to claim another clean sweep.Sola was instrumental this month as he scored at least two in every game he played in and he ended the season with 159 which is more then last season.Next season will see him at his peak but he is getting very close to the 1000 mark.I have already started bringing in the next batch of u19's to help gain them first team experience.Towards the end of season I have been having problems with players wanting a new challenge which I have talked them around but give it a couple of seasons then I will sell one or two.
Our fifteen year stadium sponsorship is up in six seasons time so I am guessing it will be around then when a new stadium will be announced.Our main sponsorship is also up at the end of this season and hopefully our Worldwide rep will net us a bigger one.Our facilities are right near the top now as Youth Recruitment is now at an established level but I am not sure what will happen in the future as the Chairman's rep has started dropping so we will face a takeover in the near future,my contract is also up in two years so hopefully that will get sorted by the end of next season.
Last edited by B.W.G; 12-07-2012 at 11:20.
159 goals Any chance of a download link to that goal crazy tactic you employ?
159!!!!! I'm sure that's better than my Magical Milan managed once or twice (and not far off all the rest). That says it all.
I think this will probably the best goals scoring season for him.He needs roughly around 350 goals to hit 1000 for Vitoria so he should definitely be able to do that.To be compared to your Milan side is quite an honour
Last edited by B.W.G; 11-07-2012 at 11:05.
Spain - The road to Mexico 2026!
World Cup Qualifying Group
Manager's Thoughts
Well that is Spain practically qualified for the 2026 World Cup.The game against Netherlands saw Sola take his Spanish tally to over 100.We weren't brilliant agaisnt Cyprus but with how poor the opposition is in this group,it seems like we did really well.The return game with Lithuania saw more goals get knocked in as Sola scored five in our 9-0 win which firmly keeps us on top.Not only do we have a 100% winning record,we've also scored 48 goals in 6 games,barring a major turn in events we are as good as through and I fully expect us to qualify once we have played the September games.
Next up is the Confederations Cup in which I will be treating seriously as it is the only International trophy in which Spain are eligible for that I have not won so far.We should get through the groups but it looks to get tricky after that.
Last edited by B.W.G; 11-07-2012 at 11:15.
And he follows it up by reaching an international century!
Spain - Confederations Cup 2025
The SquadCode:Goalkeepers - Jose Zubillaga (Vitoria),David De Gea (Man Utd),Josep (Barca) Defenders - Inigo Santos (Vitoria),Ignacio Romero (Vitoria),Rodolfo Bodipo (Vitoria),Roberto Aranbarri (Atletic),Juan Jose Leal (Juventus),David (Porto),Unai Zurro (Athletic),Javier Barabduaran (Valencia) Midfielders - Adryan (Man Utd),Markel Aranburu (Vitoria),Francisco Gala (Barca),Rubern Hernandez (Valencia),Sergio Perez (Vitoria),German Revuelta (Barca),Miguel Angel Rodriguez (Vitoria),Ricardo Santamaria (Vitoria),Victor Sayegh (Inter Milan) Forwards - Sergio Cardenas (Barca),Iker Sola (Vitoria),Ivan Vazquez (Valencia),Group StagesCode:Group A Group B P W D L F A Pts P W D L F A Pts 1st Spain 3 3 0 0 11 2 9 1st Ghana 3 3 0 0 6 1 9 2nd Argentina 3 2 0 1 7 3 6 2nd Germany 3 2 0 1 5 2 6 3rd United States 3 1 0 2 4 8 3 3rd Mexico 3 1 0 2 7 4 3 4th Thailand 3 0 0 3 1 10 0 4th Tahiti 3 0 0 3 0 11 0 Matches Matches Argentina 3-1 United States Mexico 5-0 Tahiti Thailand 0-5 Spain Germany 0-1 Ghana United States 2-1 Thailand Ghana 2-1 Mexico Spain 2-1 Argentina Tahiti 0-3 Germany Argentina 3-0 Thailand Germany 2-1 Mexico United States 1-4 Spain Ghana 3-0 TahitiKnockout Stages
3rd Place Playoff - Germany 1-0 Ghana
Manager's Thoughts
This would have been easier than it actually was if dodgy officiating didn't happen.We topped the group with ease and not even Argentina posed a threat to us.Things looked like it was going to be hell after the Semi-Final,as you can see we made two more fouls then Germany but ended up with 3 more yellow cards and a red card and that was with tackling set to normal!The Final turned out to be a uphill battle after playing most of the game with 10 men as Zurro was sent off on his debut!Our counter attacking performance clinched us victory with two second half goals as we claimed the Confederation Cup.
I have to be honest,Ghana actually did shock me.Mexico had a strong side and found themselves losing to Ghana as did the Germans as no one could stopthe African nation in the Group Stages.The 3-0 loss to Argentina in the semi-final was a bit harsh,they were outclassed but not that badly.They lost 1-0 to Germany in the 3rd placed playoff and it was a very undeserved loss,the had the better of the match and lost to a controversial penalty in the 45th minute!It was such a bad penalty decision that if I was manager,I would have blown my top in the press conference.
Onto World Cup 2026 in Mexico where dare I say,we should be favourites to lift the trophy.
Last edited by B.W.G; 21-07-2012 at 20:09.
Solid end to the season there! Do you often field a pure Vitoria XI for Spain?
Cheers fella
I've never fielded a pure Vitroia XI for Spain,don't think the media would like that considering they moan when picking my own players for Spain in the first place
They can get knotted.
Sola beat the 150 mark Not bad at all.
159! That is insane! With those figures, you should never lose out on a league title again
deltablue - I fully agree with that statement,things may change after I leave the Spain job but till then I'm in charge!
cerud - I'm going to come out and say that this will be is best season and things will go down from here.
Scarman - I have to be honest,at the end of March,I was fearing we were going to lose the title but thankfully At.Madrid got hammered by injuries!
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - End of Season 2024/25
2024/25 Transfers
In order to start bringing the next generation through,I have sold some of the whiners off which has also helped with the financial side of things as well.Baradiaran was the most high profiled as he played 414 times for the club.This has been the most productive transfer window,could have made more then £21.5 million but didn't want things to drag on.
Liga BBVA
League Table - Past Positions
Champions League
Group Stage - Knockout Round - Quarter-Final - Semi-Final
Club World Cup
Copa del Rey
4th Round - 5th Round - Quarter Finals - Semi-Finals
European Super Cup
1st Leg - 2nd Leg
Players,Stats and Awards
Best XI 24/25 - Overall Best XI
Players Stats
Top Scorer
Iker Sola - 159 Goals
Most Assists
Miguel Angel Rodriguez - 79 Assists
Top 5 Special Mentions
Sergio Perez - Yon Etxebarria - Markel Aranburu - Eneko Santos - Angelo Roman
Manager's Thoughts
Another clean sweep this season but it was mainly down to Iker Sola who actually beat his record last season but I can't expect him to keep doing this as he literally carried us at times as the midfield did let him down a bit in the early season.We have good youngsters coming through which will help keep things fresh in the coming seasons so I won't have to rely too heavily on some players with exception to Sola as I want him to get over 1000 goals for the club.The only thing I wanted to have a league campaign where I go unbeaten but once again we failed so hopefully it will be better luck next season.
No sign of a new stadium as I've only done seven years here so we have a very long wait till a new one will be allowed.We've managed to improve Youth Recruitment so it stands at Well Established but I'm not too familiar with what the highest ranks are for recruitment.The Chairman's status has dropped to enjoying life at the clubs so we will have a takeover bid to look forward to in maybe 2-3 seasons time.On a Vitoria related matter,my assistant manager Michel Salgado will be doing double duties as I've hired him as the Spain u21 manager!I've have two years left on my contract so I am expecting a new one at the end of the season.
Code:Season Division League Cup Continental Avg.Att Notes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2011/12 Tercera Div.Grp 4 2nd N/A N/A 418 Promoted! 2012/13 Segunda Division B3 9th N/A N/A 646 Survival! 2013/14 Segunda Division B2 9th N/A N/A 712 Copa RFEF Runner Up 2014/15 Segunda Division B3 3rd 1st Rnd N/A 827 Won Promotion Playoff! 2015/16 Liga Adelante 7th 3rd Rnd N/A 1487 Self-Proclaimed Entertainers 2016/17 Liga Adelante 2nd 4th Rnd N/A 900 Promoted! 2017/18 Liga BBVA 12th 5th Rnd N/A 900 Survival! 2018/19 Liga BBVA 5th 5th Rnd N/A 11771 Europa League Qualification! 2019/20 Liga BBVA 6th WINNERS Quarters 11343 Won a trophy! 2020/21 Liga BBVA 1st Semis WINNERS 11838 Won Double! 2021/22 Liga BBVA 1st WINNERS Semis 17450 Domestic Double! 2022/23 Liga BBVA 1st WINNERS WINNNRS 23066 Won Treble! 2023/24 Liga BBVA 1st WINNERS WINNERS 28854 Clean Sweep! 2024/25 Liga BBVA 1st WINNERS WINNERS 30919 Clean Sweep!
Last edited by B.W.G; 16-07-2012 at 15:21.
Iker Sola - Race to 1000 Goals
As things stand
He is getting ever closer,after the end of last season he stands on 761 goals if you include his international tally so only needs 239 more goals to make 1000 in total.To reach 1000 for Vitoria,he needs 356 more goals to hit 1000 for the club.With the way things have gone in the last few seasons then he could possibly do it by the time he hits 30.I definitely want it done by the time he is 33 so that is about 7 years at just over 50 goals a season will see him do it.Code:Season Apps Goals Av.R ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2013/14 9 5 7.07 2014/15 45 12 6.90 2015/16 43 35 7.48 2016/17 39 13 6.94 2017/18 36 20 7.15 2018/19 24 15 7.33 2019/20 51 29 7.27 2020/21 59 49 7.46 2021/22 58 78 8.11 2022/23 55 106 8.57 2023/24 57 150 9.00 2024/25 59 159 9.14 International 61 117 TOTAL 596 761
Last edited by B.W.G; 31-07-2012 at 15:53.
Unless he gets a big injury I think 1000 goals are in the bag!
Do you have any more long term goals for this save?
The only thing I have left is to be the number one club in the world (we're currently 2nd behind Real Madrid.)I would love a new stadium named after me but that's not a necessity.
Sola has never really had any major injure,a couple of little niggles but never been out more then a month so hopefully that will continue.
He's still got plenty of prime left. 50 goals is nothing to him.
How on earth are real madrid ahead of you in the world ranking you have won the european cup 3 years in the row or something like that and a couple of clean sheets :S
I think only injury will stop Sola from getting to his target.
deltablue - I just hope he goes out with a bang and it's nice to see most of his goals coming in top flight as well.
buzz2k7 - I have no idea how they are above me but I'm going off that they probably have been the nearest challengers (with exception to last season) to us.With that it's managed to keep their rep above ours.If the next season pans out like the one just finished then we should move above them.
SRL88 - I don't think even injury can stop him.Sola's longest spell out has been 4 months but he has only had 3 major injuries.A broken foot in 2018 (4 months),concussion in 2019 (9 days) and pulled hamstring in 2020 (4 weeks) but that is it for injuries so he has had a very good career so far injury wise.
Sola was rubbish this season. Absolutely rubbish.
I know and now he's 27 (time has flown very quickly on that one!) it is all downhill from here
Damn... so what do they call it when you win six competitions? A Sex-eble?
Everybody sssshhhhh!!! you dont want to jinx sola!! :S
Football manager is listening!!
More record breaking stuff! Well done!
cerud - I call it glory hogging
buzz2k7 - Jinx Sola...Football Manager's listening.....the only thing that can stop Sola is my laptop blowing up
AK22 - Cheers fella
Dont jinx that now ?! There is more of a chance of that happening
Sola will stop at 999 and go down as the greatest player that never was. And only seasoned vets will remember his name, because who remembers someone ONLY scoring 999 goals .
buzz2k7 - Let's keep quiet on the situation then so no jinxes will happen!
Mikal - That's harsh.I remember some of my previous players who only scored hundreds of goals.On FM09 I had a striker called Pablo Veron who retired on 666 goals for the club
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - Pre-Season 2025/26
Club Overview - Facilities - Boardroom Overview - Expectations - Finances
Pre-Season Fixtures
I left it a bit late with the pre-season fixtures as the last one against Milan was not actually played till two days before the domestic season kicked off.Hopefully this error of judgement will go unpunished.
The Team
Team Report - Tactics
Key Players
Jose Zubillaga
Ignacio Romero
Daniel Reuter
Iker Sola
Same picks for key players last season but I will need Reuter to step up his game as he didn't have a great season last season.Zubilllaga will probably end up having the most appearances for the club while Sola will be the all time leading goal scorer for the club.Romero will be the defender to help tutor the next generation of defenders coming through so all these players will carry on to do their part for the club.
There is still one thing I want to do and that is go the league season unbeaten,for all the success we have had,we still have not managed to do that and this could be as good as chance as any as the players are hitting their peak.Other then that,there is only really getting Sola to 1000 career goals then 1000 Vitoria goals which could take 2-3 season.Hopefully if we can have a successful season like the last two then we should be able to overthrow Real Madrid to become the World's best club.Not too bothered about the being the best side in the finances as we don't have a stadium to match Barcelona and Real which would help with finances.
At the end of this season,I should be offered a new contract as it runs out in 2027 and they normally give me a new one with a year to go.Things are still good here and I will be looking to start bringing through the next generation of players from the Academy which should see the club set for a minimum of 15-20 years which will put things in the 2040's and have all the older players retired and hopefully some will stay on as member of staff.Still been tempted by the Liverpool job as they are still in League 2 as restoring a fallen giant through by the youth system could be interesting but we will see after the my next contract is up.
Last edited by B.W.G; 16-07-2012 at 20:43.
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - August 2025
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
We were really sloppy in the Supercopa games against At.Madrid but we still managed to come out on top with a 4-0 agg victory to claim our third Supercopa victory.Things picked up in the league as we stuffed new boys At.Baleares 6-0 without really shifting out of 2nd gear.The Euro Super Cup game was against Man City in which I ruined a potential Manchester derby as we beat United in the final.Sola showed he is a force to be reckoned with as he put the Manchester side to the sword with a four goal haul which took his tally to 10 for the month.
September sees the return of the Champions League and we have been dealt a tricky group as we face Lyon,CSKA Moscow and fourth seeds Bayer Leverkusen!We open up with a home tie against Lerkusen before we travel to Russia to face CSKA at the end of the month,I will be aiming for a 100% record in the group.The league is actually pretty tough this month with games against Espanyol,Malaga,Real Madrid and Sevilla.We have another league game against Alaves but I'm not too concerned by that one as we should deal with pretty easily.
Last edited by B.W.G; 17-07-2012 at 12:04.
I finally hit the link to look at Sola's stats. Damn, thats impressive.
The thing what makes it impressive for me is that his technicals are not the best in the world bar finishing but he is damn good.
Cheers fella
I know but I've seen other players where they have it all but I'd rather have Sola he's a legendary bald person
C.D. Vitoria - Liga BBVA - September 2025
League Table
Manager's Thoughts
We are two for two in the Champions League,we beat Leverkusen 5-1 in which we felt so generous that Rodriguez was sent off after 42 minutes and Romero scored an own goal,CSKA Moscow were no match for us as we waltzed past them.The league saw us on fire,we destroyed Alaves and Espanyol where Sola scored in each match,Real Madrid couldn't even deal with us even though we had 9 men!Malaga were lucky to only concede two while Sevilla's bad season continued as we won 5-0 while playing the game with 10 men for 81 minutes as Santamaria was given a straight red.
October looks to be an easier month for us as the most difficult game is Getafe who we struggled against last season as well as surprise package Real Sociedad who have shown improvement in the last couple of seasons.We also face Sporting and Osasuna but not too bothered by then.Our sole Champions League tie is against Lyon in what will be a tough fixture but hopefully home advantage will help us.I'm hoping At.Madrid slip up as they are nearly matching us which is quite scary but it will probably is two topping the table end of the month.As for Iker Sola,he has 34 goals in 11 appearances so hopefully he can keep that up.
Last edited by B.W.G; 17-07-2012 at 16:41.
Sola is just a bloody show off if you ask me.
Or that he has that many chances that he is bound to score alot This season so far he has scored 39 goals from 101 shots which comes to roughly 38% finishing conversion which is on show off level as you said,last season he had 24% finishing conversion.
The Iker Sola show featuring C.D.Vitoria
An unbelievable performance as he scored 8 goals which is a new club record!


text:
I am setting up a fresh Continuous Integration environment for a .NET project. The basics are in place and I have also integrated the Visual Studio Code Analysis (FxCopCmd.exe) and Test Results (MSTest.exe).
How to do that?
a. Add an task for above mentioned tools, specify input dll and output xml/trx in the .build file of the project
b. Update ccnet.config, add blocks for those xml/trx files
c. Update dashboard.config, add block with fxcop-summary_1_36.xsl and MsTestSummary2008.xsl
Everything looks and works great. Now I also want to show Visual Studio 2008 Code Coverage and Code Metrics in CruiseControl.NET 1.5.7385.9 Build Report. Can somebody tell me how do I do that?

subset: commoncrawl


text:
"Please, get out of the Catholic Church"
As my father reaches the end of his life, we're all trying to do what we can to put his mind at ease and make his time happy. This weekend, out of the blue, he told me to, "Please, get out of the Catholic Church! Your money is going to pay off kids who've been abused by sex criminals, and and now you won't even know what they're saying!"
He was referring, of course, to the half billion in payouts to sex abuse victims in L.A. and what he believes to be a universal return to the Latin Mass.
My parents have always been disappointed by our conversion; they see it as a rejection of my free-thinking upbringing. It's very hard to explain to them that I embraced Catholicism BECAUSE I was raised to think for myself, since what I embraced represents to them the most superstitious and coercive aspects of organized religion that they themselves rejected.
My personal problems, of course. But Dad's plea to leave the Church leads me to think about raising our discussions about recent Church news from the parochial to the ecumenical level.
While many priests and bishops inspire non-Catholics with their speeches and writings, it's often we lay people in the pew at whom the hard questions and criticisms of the Church are lobbed. To what extent is anti-Catholicism ratcheting up as stories about Latin Masses, payouts to sex crime victims and statements about "our separated brethren" appear?
To what extent is it important to explain to our friends and family where the media or media readers have jumped to incorrect conclusions?
To what extent are church leaders aware of the questions we get from family--especially those of us in "mixed" families--and friends, and could they better prepare us to answer those questions?
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Jean thanks as always for your warm honesty. Those of us that have been in "this thing of ours" from the womb depend on honest feelings of those like your dad: the old dichotomy inside/out no longer holds and never really did: so much that goes under 'anti-Catholicism' actually originates internally then works its way to articulation on 'the outside.' In other words genuine Catholicism is constituted in my view by this dialogue that is no respecter of boundaries. In same way converts are so important in large part not because they become super gung-ho papists but for what they bring with them; just from your posts alone one can see what you bring and it's made better for not trying to trim sails to fit pre-conception of expectation as some converts tend. In working on Dorothy Day I was very struck by line from Philip Slater's The Pursuit of Loneliness: "an individual who 'converts' from one orientation to its exact opposite appears to himself and others to have made a gross change, but actually it involves only a very small shift in the balance of a focal and persistent conflict." Not suggesting this applies at all to you or others but Dorothy was always religious and always a radical: the Catholic thing gave her means to blend these more compellingly and to act accordingly. Best wishes to your father: we're going through same tho mine is no 'free-thinker'! yet now and then some of the defensive exterior is rubbed off for just a fleeting moment and he too is open to these meaningful questions.
Your parents sound like my parents except that my parents were Catholic. Your dollars are going to pay for the most loathsome transgressions of bishops and priests. It's not the money, more or less here and there, it doesn't matter, it's the idea that legions of people who take a high resolution magnifying glass to the intimate lives of others failed to see the steel beam that was lodged in their eyes. We're paying because they couldn't tell good from evil or couldn't act on their convictions (I'm not sure which I consider to be worse). The continuing silence of the Pope is an open wound that refuses to heal. I don't know what else there is for Church authorities to say when their chief spokesperson remains silent.
As I remember, according to Aquinas what we can most accurately say about God is what He is *not*. Our only knowledge of Him is by weak, weak analogy or metaphor. Thomas was so impressed with the unknowable immensity of God that he even held that although we are able to say that we are to some tiny extent like HIm, we cannot properly say that He is like us.
Sorry, I posted that on the wrong thread.
I have discussed these issues a great deal on another board which has people from all sorts of religions plus atheism. Most people (including many of the Catholics) have taken these things as additional "gotcha" moments, claiming that they only prove the bad things they have thought about the Church all along.So I suspect that these things are going to be treated this way even within the Church, as things that people outside won't understand or attempt to understand anyway.
I joined former federal co-workers (nearly all of us retired) and a few spouses for supper last Friday. I apologized to one of my male friends, a moderate Southern Baptist, for the pope's recent remarks about churches and ecclesial communities, etc. I mentioned how Benedict has managed in so short a time to alienate women, Protestants, Jews, Muslims (the trip to Turkey notwithstanding), and likely most progressive and not a few moderate Catholics. My friend smiled, "He certainly knows how to win friends and influence people." Dave suggested the problem is ours, not that of our "separated brethren."Next day I had supper with a clerical friend, quite involved in ecumenical and interfaith relations. My friend could manage to say how "embarrassed" he was/is by our pope's remarks, that he had already expressed his feelings to one or two friends who are non-Catholic clergy. He expressed hope, nonetheless.I'm taking the "I'm from Missouri" approach. I'll believe in the revival of renewal (or genuine restoration) when I see it.I can fully relate to your father's suggestion --- regardless of his religious background. My clerical friend mentioned that the megachurch in our town is 1/4 Catholic. Perception is reality.
In general, people that I conversed with about this on the website said that the Pope had no right to claim anything that would imply a superior status for the Church. All churches and spiritual paths are equal, they held. Catholicism is good for some but not for others. My response was that the Church was the culmination of 2,000 years of asking the question "what is the right way to live"; a question carried on from earlier pagan philosophers. While the Church does not (or rather, no longer does not) hold that it is the only Way, it has what it believes sound reasons to hold that it has the best way (in the sense of completeness, especially). I mentioned that we in the US don't think of religious practice as the pursuit of a certain kind of excellence any more, but if one does pursue excellence, one is bound to come to distinctions of excellence. So I argued that it would probably be more productive if people addressed the Church's particular claims to excellence in terms of those claims and not say that in the case of religion no one can make those kinds of claims.
Apologizing for the Church or the Pope wasn't what I had in mind.But I felt overwhelmed by how sincerely Dad felt Catholicism was a closed, frightened and furtive institution. And he made me promise not to let my 11-year-old become an altar boy (no danger there ...)But I don't see how the church heirarchy fails to see how the timing and high-falutin' academic statements that come out of the Vatican just now might increase the perception that Catholics are aloof, uninterested in the propagation of the faith (except by reproducing) and are ignoring the sex scandals and the stonewalling that has occurred.Are people hearing this addressed in their parishes at all? Because plenty of us are hearing it from our families, and it would be nice to have some acknowledgement that these are hard times to be Catholic.
But what do you want, Jean?The settlements for the sex scandals raises them again to the general conciousness (and there will be many more settlements), but are we in the middle of the scandal (with more to be revealed) or at the end?I can see that the statements coming out of the Vatican about the Latin Mass and the Church relative to the other Churchs will be upsetting to non-Catholics (and then to Catholics), but I'm not sure that the solution is to address the issues in their terms and on the basis of their interests. I'm not trying to say "screw them". But (putting the sex scandal aside, for that seems to me to be a different thing) I guess I am not inclined to make the Church censor itself so as not to make others feel bad.No, our parish isn't addressing any of this, but I doubt they would address anything even if Christ Pantocrater showed up in fire and light at the Altar and Rosary Society Brunch.
I like to think, unagidon, that I'm trying to get people to look at things from an outsider's perspective and whether that gives us any insights about what's really important insofar as essentials of faith are concerned.Or perhaps I am only grieving for being such a poor Catholic that I can't find the words to close the rift that seems to have opened between my father and me and nobody in the Church really gives a rip because Dad's bound for hell in a handbasket anyway.
I won't say anything about LA, but I will say concerning the two documents that I tried to explain them as well as I could during my homily.Also, my parish just happened to have an Adult Faith Formation Night planned for last Wednesday night. It was planned months ago, but it really worked out as far as scheduling and topics for discussion.My parish has few young families but many retirees. When we have families, they are tourists, so they don't make much of a comment about anything.The biggest question I received in regard to the 1962 Rite was "How many people are really asking for the Mass? Are they young people or older people?" A few of the older people then said, "I hope they don't want the Church as it was. They have no idea how it was." (But then, neither do I. At such a moment, I can only listen to what they have to say.) The biggest questions I received in regard to the CDF statement were: 1) "What brought that on?", 2) "Was someone bored in the office one day and put out this statement as a means to kill the boredom?", or 3) "Is that the type of stuff the leadership thinks about and talks about all day?"I took the time to remind everyone that Catholics have been given a responsibility to offer witness to the presence of Jesus in this world. Such a statement should not provoke us to jumping around and screaming "Rah! Rah! Rah! We're number 1!" If anything, such a statement reminds us of our responsibility to give witness to the saving power of Jesus and to seek with undivided hearts what He offers us. It takes a whole bunch of explaining about how we get from Point A to Point B in regard to these statements. I thank everyone at the parish who took the time to listen.
Fr. Shawn, this is exactly what I was hoping priests would be doing! And I hope you are typical. If not, I hope your parishioners appreciate you.In my neck of the woods, discussions about what it means to be Catholic, especially in terms of how we are to respond to others in a way that shows we love them AND our faith, are nil.
Thanks, Jean.I give the credit to my mentors and all the Catholics who have lived in this area back when there were fewer of them. They taught me that it's always a good sign when a non-Catholic around here says, "Hey, y'all (or in the mountians, youins) aren't too bad after all."It is also very funny when a non-Catholic attends a funeral or wedding here and they say to me, "Pastor (or Brother because it would kill them to say Father), I didn't realize that you prayed to Jesus that much."
Jean, I always appreciate how deeply personal and caring your comments/questions are.I'd just say ther is a tremondous amount of fear at the top of the Church - a fear of admitting (really) personal wrongs, a fear of allwing change less things collapse, and a fear of those whopse colars aren't turned around but ar eno teducated *see the latest Andrew greeley blast in America.) I think things are much safer for now for our our younsgsters, but the problem of abuse will simmer under the surface til all truth be told.The real hope I see is in you and many other faithful who try to live their faith, frequently in a struggle, every day.I guess though I have little faith in those who think (as my frriend Andy says_ live by formulas and can always tell you the party line withou tany problems
Jean, you can tell your father about theologians in the church like, Schillibexx, McBrien, Haight, Kung, Congar,Haring, Elizabeth Johnson, Elizabeth Fiorenza, Joan Chittister, Rosemary Reuther and a host of other who think independently within the church and are working to keep the hierarchs honest.None of the above people have taken bribes like bishoprics, professorships and red hats to quiet their consciences.That is something to rejoice about because only in our time have lay persons, on such a scale,demanding better leadership.Finally, you can tell him he can be proud of you. He has one helluva daughter.
Hello Bill,This is one way to approach such attitudes, to be sure, but I wonder about the wisdom of giving the impression that supersition ended and independent thinking began in the Church only after ca. 1960 or so. To your list one might add Irenaeus, Origen, Augustine, Boethius, Anselm, Aquinas, Scotus, Avila, Suarez, Bellermine, Scheeben, Newman, Blondel, de Lubac and von Balthasar as suggestive of the possibility that at least in some quarters of the Church it has been possible to be something more than an unthinking fanatic for...well, a very long time. I think it is fair to ask how many Protestant churches can boast a similar array. There have been some pretty good Jesuit scientists down through the centuries as well. I think this aspect of Jean's quandary gets at something else addressed in the Pope's accompanying letter - i.e., the danger of ecclesia semper reformanda being overtaken by a hermeneutic of rupture rather than continuity between the pro- and post-conciliar churches. Father O'Neal gives a suggestive...perhaps not "example," but at least a latent tendency from some of his older parishioners: "I hope they don't want the Church as it was. They have no idea how it was." I don't either, not from first-hand, but I am not sure the perception on offer is entirely fair however firsthand it might be. If the "1958 Church" was far from the ideal painted by some nostalgias, it has to be said that the post-1965 Church has not been all sweetness and light, either. Drop down the page and note that virtually all of the lawsuits settled by Los Angeles date from the last four decades, including in most cases the ordination date of the priests in question. To pick one example. All those ex-Catholics we run into at Baptist get-togethers were fleeing from something, but unless they're over 60, it's unlikely to be Latin Masses. (Which is not to suggest that bringing the latter back will necessarily bring the former back.)As for me, I can only add that I'm sympathetic to facing criticisms about the sex scandals, and the role of our prelates hiding them. It seems inadequate to point out (justly) that similar problems are sometimes as widespread among our brethren/sistren across the Tiber, only less publicized. We expect better from our own church, after all. There's far too much broken glass around for me to find many rocks to throw right now. As for the CDF document, it probably does not help to note that it really is not saying anything that Dominus Iesus (2000) or Communionis notio (1992) or for that matter Lumen Gentium (1964) didn't really say before, even if we are left to wonder why it is being repeated now. Is it offensive to the extent that so many of us now are effectively what was once termed "indifferentist?" Or is there yet possible a way to carefully balance the charity demanded by ecumenism (which the Church is irrevocable committed to now) and still finding a way to affirm one's own creedal beliefs? And if Benedict hasn't found it, is there a future pope who will? More questions to ponder. We live in interesting times in which to ponder them.
R.M.:I wish I could have been at multiple locations at once (both Catholic parishes and other denomination's churches) in order to hear whether or not other people spoke of the same concerns or showed a lack of concern. I mean, the local discussion was prodded tremendously by a front-page headline that said "Pope: other churches defective". I wish I could have caught the opinions of many varied people between last Wednesday and yesterday.
Hello R.M.,I do agree that Iraeneus and Augustine were independent thinkers in the sense that they changed Christianity. All of a sudden Iraeneus had no use for diversity and Augustine decided that it was okay to kill Christians who disagreed with the Constantinian appointed authorities. For Augustine your sins were forgiven as long as you remained Catholic whic is surely a restriction on the mandate of Jesus.Origin might be your most independent thinker of all because he saw clearly that God's mercy could not be restricted like some emerging churchmen were beginning to assert. By the time of Augustine a lot of people were going to hell. You are right in asserting that Benedict is concerned about a rupture occuring over the maxim "ecclesia semper reformanda." Unfortunately, Benedict is so wrong. The rupture takes place when we pass our neighbor in danger and do not help.Augustine was transfixed with the notion of everyone staying within the Catholic fold that he placed more emphasis on heretics than challenging Christians not to be tepid. (I am not saying that he did not write some good stuff).Things do not have to be so neat. They weren't at the crucifxion.
Unagidon says that "if one does pursue excellence [in terms of "religious practice"], one is bound to come to distinctions of excellence."I do recall the gospel passage where some disciples of Jesus complain to him about "others" not in their group expelling demons, etc. in the Lord's name. These "others" should stop what they're doing, say the Lord's followers. And Jesus tells them (in so many words), "Get over it! Those not against you are for you. They're doing my Father's bidding."And, of course, we know the tale of the publican and the pharisee. No doubt the latter pursued "excellence" in his communal relationship with God. However, did the pharisee demonstrate "excellence" in his personal relationship with God?While Jesus wanted us to be perfect as his heavenly Father is perfect, certainly a goal few if any of us shall attain in this lifetime, I don't recall him preaching about the kind of "excellence" that Ratzinger seems to think important. If anything, I recall the Lord continually duking it out, so to speak, with the religious authorities of his day over their sanctimoniousness, arrogance, hypocrisy, etc.Ratzinger's CDF and papal statements have only managed to alienate those "others" of whom the Lord's disciples complained. The humble and personal pursuit of perfection is one thing. The pursuit of "excellence" as described by you is another thing altogether, and I doubt Jesus would place much stock in it.
Hello Fr. Shawn,"I mean, the local discussion was prodded tremendously by a front-page headline that said "Pope: other churches defective"."I think you raise another good point here.Whatever the merits of the timing or content of the CDF statement, it has to be said that matters are often not helped by the religious illiteracy and brevity with which the major media treats these stories.And for most people, that's all they'll read. Not many will go download off the Vatican website. Even in instances when we think the Church "gets it right," there's no guarantee it will be reported that way in the press.
<>All of the things that the Lord "duked it out" over were cases where people were not living up to their own standards. So I think that Jesus actually wanted people to pursue excellence. Religion is a practice and practice has standards. The Church has been talking about what the standards and practices should be in order to live the best possible life for 2,000, a discussion that they continued up from Jewish and pagan forbearers. I think that fluidity of doctrine and the source of change in the Church has come from this refinement and their analysis of all the mistakes they have made (and of what works). So yes, religion is the pursuit of excellence and yes, one pursues a particular religion because one thinks that it is most excellent. People join a religion because they think that it is the most excellent way. Even in America, where religion is sometimes treated like it's a pair of pants to be changed from time to time when styles change.You would say that all religions are the same and that all of them are equally dignified because they all in one way or another lead to the same end. I think that this is an attitude and is hypocritical. It smacks to me of a flaw in our American culture; the idea that people set their own internal standards and because each person deserves to be treated with dignity, each standard deserves to be treated equally. People think their religion is the best path, because each religion, as the sum total of its history in grappling with the problem of spiritual development, thinks it is the best path.Look up Revelation 3:15.
Unagidon, Somehow you seem to depart form your usual flawless logic on this issue. Holding that all religions are not the same does not mean that each one does not make it to God. And excellence is always in scripture based on behavior. Unless we are talking about excellence in the arts and sciences. Seems that Rev. 3:15 supports this view also.Certainly all religions are not the same and I believe we should feel especially blessed as Christians. At the same time there are so many factors militating for humility and realize that God makes a way for all.
<>Please don't misunderstand me (although if you do it is my fault). God does make way for all and there is many a good Muslim who is a better "Christian" than many a bad Christian.But are the differences between religions important, and if so, how important? Again, I am looking at religion as a practice here, not as some organization where one can say "my club is better than your club" (or as some seem to claim about Benedict's recent writings "I have a club and you don't.") To me, the question of the importance of the differences, since they are meant to inform our practices, is the real point of dialogue between religions. The Pope seems to think that Apostolic Progression is important and that it is better to have it than to not have it. He may or may not be right, but it seems to me that the way to approach this with other religions is to ask why, not dismiss the question with the claim that he is putting up impediments to unity. I agree the Rev. 3:15 would support excellence in arts and sciences. But I think that the distinction between religious practice on one hand and arts and sciences on the other as objects of excellence is rather recent in the history of our Church. And I am not sure that that was a good thing.
Thanks to everyone for their participation in this discussion. Just some random observations:Fr. Shawn said: The biggest questions I received in regard to the CDF statement were: 1) "What brought that on?", 2) "Was someone bored in the office one day and put out this statement as a means to kill the boredom?", or 3) "Is that the type of stuff the leadership thinks about and talks about all day?"Jean notes: I had a similar reaction. As many have pointed out, there was nothing really new in the statement, so it really seemed unnecessary. Sort of like, "Things seem to be going pretty well right now, but just remember, Protestants are still defective."My own belief is that Protestantism is more incomplete than defective. I don't think the Vatican's statement would disagree with that, but the word "defective" keeps getting picked up by the press and stirring up people.Bill suggested: Jean, you can tell your father about theologians in the church like, Schillibexx, McBrien, Haight, Kung, Congar,Haring, Elizabeth Johnson, Elizabeth Fiorenza, Joan Chittister, Rosemary Reuther and a host of other who think independently within the church and are working to keep the hierarchs honest.Jean says: I tried to talk with my parents about Rahner. Their response was, "Well, why would a smart man like that stay in?" I think it's hard for Protestants to understand why people remain faithful to the Church, when the Protestant M.O. is to simply move on to find a better "match" elsewhere. Or to just give up organized religion as a racket, as my parents have done.James Fisher says: In working on Dorothy Day I was very struck by line from Philip Slater's The Pursuit of Loneliness: "an individual who 'converts' from one orientation to its exact opposite appears to himself and others to have made a gross change, but actually it involves only a very small shift in the balance of a focal and persistent conflict." Jean notes: James, it is interesting you cite Day, who was posthumously instrumental in moving me a step toward Catholicism. I read an interview with her in which she referred to the Book of Common Prayer in a way that indicated she still used it, after decades of being a Catholic. I remember thinking, "Oh! I wouldn't have to give up the BCP if I converted!" I still use the prayers, Psalter and order for Compline. We recently watched "Chariots of Fire," and the choristers sang "And Did Those Feet" at the end. I was surprised at how "Anglican" I could still feel.Converting is not about becoming someone else or rejecting things. It's having a change of heart that makes you more open to the Holy Spirit. I'm not nicer because I turned Catholic. But I work at it more.From unagidon: God does make way for all and there is many a good Muslim who is a better "Christian" than many a bad Christian.Jean says: I think this is the POV that Dad comes from. One of his friends is a Jew who visits Dad every Monday, either taking him for breakfast (with the oxygen and attendant paraphernalia), or bringing breakfast in and eating it with him if Dad can't get away. I think it is possible to believe, as I do, that, blessed as our Church might be, God is out there blessing others with his grace and providing examples in other faiths, as a reminder not to get comfy and start thinking that the glory of the Church rubs off merely because we're sitting in its pews every Sunday.
Unagidon, obviously we disagree.
<>Well, perhaps, but it would be good to know to what degree.I fear that not addressing the question of whether one approach is better than another in this spiritual journey of ours is not actually suppressing dialogue. "We shouldn't alienate people with comments about our belief that we have a better way" to me doesn't support a conversation; it supports a very American idea that because we are all equals in our search for God all searches for God are equal. Or to put it another way, people who will cut off dialogue because of what the Pope said weren't serious about the dialogue to begin with.
unagidon,But isn't it possible (easy, even) to advocate and promote your own way without explicitly denigrating the ways of others? And even if you must, at some point in a good dialogue, say, "Here's where we are convinced you're wrong and we're right," the time would seem to me to be within the dialogue itself. Dialogue implies both sides talking and both sides listening, and a broadside issued by the Vatican is one side talking but not listening.I doubt that anyone who takes Commonweal seriously believes that "all searches for God are equal." But is there nothing to be considered in between "everyone must become Catholic" and "all ways are equal"? I know a married couple who were Catholics all of their lives. Then they had a daughter turned out to be developmentally disabled, who required constant watching, frequent emergency trips to the hospital, and all of the inconveniences and hardships that come with a child with constant, serious medical problems. They received no help or support from the Catholic parish they attended, and in fact they got rude looks and comments when they brought their daughter to church. They joined a local Methodist church, and there was a dramatic difference in the reception, help, and support they received. Perhaps you would be prepared to say it is their duty to return to the Catholic Church, but I am sure a lot of devout Catholics would not condemn them for finding a church that met some of their most pressing needs.
I dont think that everyone must become Catholic. Like all religions, we have a problem with the gap between what we should be and what we actually are. Your couple was lucky to find a good Methodist church to go to, and it was good for them and lucky for us (as a Church) that they did not leave all faith behind entirely.I believe that the Catholic Church has the best approach (among many excellent approaches) to the question of what constitutes the best lived life (a life lived to our fullest potential) and how to achieve it. (Being a Catholic as such of course guarantees nothing). I think that the Church, however, is an utter failure in how it transmits this. I think that the Church in the United States fails this in a way characteristic of our culture. We want to be like everyone else in the good sense of our desire for liberty and equality. For us, there is a premium on choice and the idea that we evaluate the alternatives and then choose the one thats right for us. When someone says that one religion may have a better approach than another, our impulse is often to reject this, because our individuality makes us think that what is being proposed is some sort of one size fits all. In our American desire to avoid tyranny; the tyranny of ideas, or institutions, or people outside of us, we forget that spiritual life is actually a balance between avoiding the tyranny of things outside and the tyranny of ourselves over ourselves. We like to think that we are all truly unique and that in our essence we possess a soul that is wise. After all, we are told to follow our conscience. But I think in fact we are generally an accumulation of all sorts of things, rather like a gumdrop that picks up a layer of lint in ones pocket. We have to transcend what is bad in ourselves as much as we need to transcend what is bad in our society (including our Church). Religion, conceived as practice, is what this is about.Our problem is that our parish churches and schools are often as weak or corrupt as any other society in our world (and when we find a good one, it is a matter of luck as much as anything else), and yet the Church is the depository of the tradition and the method that we need to use to transcend these things (and ourselves). If I can be cryptic, this seems contradictory, but it is not a contradiction. The Church is the repository of what we know so far. But one of the things that we know so far is that people are imperfect. What we also know so far is that the Church is not and does not claim to be the only Treasury of Virtue. I think that John Paul 2 in his (it seems to me) aggressive restoration of Thomism to have been trying to get us to think about religion as the practice of excellence. (I will apologize here for using this term that is too often tainted by its association with business jargon.) I think that is what the entire thrust of his new catechism was; to explain why they Church thinks the way that it does and how it is consistent (or tries to be consistent) in its approach. I cant say that I agree with all of his conclusions, but I deeply admire the approach, because I think that especially in the United States, we have lost the idea that religion is about leading excellent lives, not only in terms of what we do for others, but what we do for ourselves. I think that many of the people who objected to Benedicts characterization of their Churches want an admission that one church is simply the same as another and that the differences between them are simply a matter of personal choice and personal preference. While it is true that people choose what they prefer, I fear that our desire to promote equality sometimes obscures real differences that we recognize but dont like to admit to (at least to each other).
I like the bit about "excellent lives."In my view Catholicism isn't superior as a holy "way" but as the vessel that holds the church's collective memory--particularly those excellent lives of the saints--that represent many "ways" to salvation.It seems to me that Catholics ought to be particularly well suited to seeing holy "ways" in other denominations and faiths, that the very name "catholic" ought to make the most ecumenical of the ecumenists.I think in most ways the saints have lived up to that ecumenical ideal--they didn't withhold the love of Christ from anyone.
Jean, I don't know how easy it is to get hold of in the US but you might find Peter Stanford's book 'Why I Am Still A Catholic' useful/interesting in this context. It's a collection of pieces by various notable (at least in the UK context) Catholics, some cradle, some convert, some recusant, some immigrant. Everyone from Cherie Booth (Blair) to Christina Odone. I've long left Catholicism but found it interesting. Peter Stanford writes regularly for the Tablet and the book was published by Continuum last year. I can find it on English Amazon but not on the US one.Best wishes to you and your father.Joan Keating (London)
Unagidon, I apologize for not elaborating on my response of July 18, but my brain was not firing on all cylinders (and I was out of town yesterday). I must confess I was rather taken aback by your associating religious practice, on the one hand, with "standards" and "pursuit of excellence," on the other. With a graduate degree in the adult training field including management coursework, plus formal training experience over the years, I had never heard or read of folks applying organizational measurement concepts to evaluation of people's religious practices. Indeed, in all my years (age 59), I've never considered --- nor have others told me they ever considered --- evaluating religious practices for "quality" or lack thereof.I suspect we will still disagree, but I want to address your response of July 17. You believe "that Jesus actually wanted people to pursue excellence." We do have the words of Jesus (Mt 5: 48): "You must be perfect --- just as your Father in heaven is perfect." If this statement reflects the goal set for each of us by the Lord, a logical followup question must be, "Lord, how will you determine if one is perfect?" In other words, what benchmarks or levels of performance must be met in order for the Lord to conclude that one is "perfect?"Various Matthean passages (not all inclusive) give some indication of what Jesus considers benchmarks of excellence or perfection. Please note that the Lord's focus is on personal, not organizational (i.e., religious practice) performance. In fact, I'm not aware of any occasion when Jesus evaluated religious practices per se. His attention was always on the personal conduct of religious authorities and others.Matthew offers the following divinely established benchmarks of personal excellence (again, not all inclusive): 5: 3 - 10 6: 1 - 6 6: 17 - 1818: 1 - 423: 2325: 35 - 40You state, "Religion is a practice, and practice has standards." Perhaps the key word here is "is." I think your notion of religion is wrong. Religion can include practice but is so much more. For those of us who profess the Christian faith, religion includes not only formal worship but, more important, a divinely preferred way of life. "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (Jn 14: 6). Jesus did not say "I am religion and religious practice." If you believe that Catholicism is the perfect religion, remember that Jesus was and remains a Jew! It was through the human foibles of history that the Lord's followers would eventually become separate religious --- and faith --- communities. The Christian faith is pure, a jewel. The Christian church in all its manifestations is anything but. "[O]ne pursues a particular religion because one thinks that it is most excellent." Maybe some folks (assuming, of course, they have a definition of "excellence"). I think it more likely, however, that one pursues a particular faith tradition out of a desire to relate to God in a way that is spiritually meaningful to him or her. You state, "You would say that all religions are the same and that all of them are equally dignified..." No, I would say that all religions are equally dignified by virtue of their capacity to help people of diverse backgrounds discover and maintain a meaningful relationship with God as they understand him. Are all religions "the same?" Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what you mean by "the same."Instead of focusing on religious cult, please consider Our Lord's wishes:"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like it: Love your neighbor as you love yourself. The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets depend on these two commandments" (Mt 22: 37 - 40).The teacher of the Law, in reply to what Jesus said above, noted, "It is more important to obey these two commandments than to offer on the altar animals and other sacrifices to God." And Jesus replied, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God" (Mk 12: 33 - 34)."I want mercy, not sacrifice" (Mt 12: 7)"This, then, is what I command you: love one another" (Jn 15: 17).Jesus' life was one of service, putting faith in action. Worship or religious practice was important, but service was more so.
Joseph said: "I think it more likely, however, that one pursues a particular faith tradition out of a desire to relate to God in a way that is spiritually meaningful to him or her."It is very hard to write about religion being a practice without falling into terms that look like business management jargon. I apologize for being so unclear. Let me try a different tack.Religion is a practice. Religion is something that one does. This is not to say that religion does not involve belief.In the modern West, we have come to a belief that belief precedes practice. We think that it is important to get our beliefs straight first, and having done this right action will somehow follow. In non-Western societies and in our own Western societies until rather recently, belief was something that was seen to follow practice. Practice comes first, right belief follows. (A simple model might be that in order to be brave, one has to act brave.) In Western thought, the virtues were practices, not beliefs. On did them first and in doing so one then learned their intrinsic value. The role of tradition in this sense was the acceptance of authority that said that practice led to belief (so learn and perform the practices).We have come in our form of individualism to somehow require that we need to have the right internal state first. We seem to think first of all that if we do not do this and without it then engage in a mode of practice, that practice will be empty, useless, futile, and devoid of true meaning. Now when we reach the point in a culture where we have this kind of worry, belief and practice have already become radically separated. We no longer know what the relationship is between one and the other. We seem to think that we can withhold practice pending the development of our beliefs. More than this, we start constructing our own standards of practice based on our beliefs about our beliefs. The problem here is that we then tend to jettison the accumulated knowledge (or should I say, wisdom) of thousands of years of observation of human practice relative to belief. We begin to see people talking about "faith based" practice, practices that come from God knows where but which all too often are made up of whatever ever current crappy moral conventions we happen to hold spiced up with some emotions telling us that God wants us to feel good about ourselves. One day we accept Christ as our personal savior. The next day, Christ tells us to invade Iraq.Our modern society sees the statement "practice before belief" as a call to engage in rigid practice for its own sake (and some people also think that this is a good thing). If I say that our Church contains the most excellent standards of practice, people tend to jump to the conclusion that I am saying that a rigid adherence to Catholic doctrine is the only (or at least the main) road to salvation. I am not, however, saying that. The Church contains the longest history of the systematic practice of the virtues, including those of faith, hope and charity. I think that a re-cultivation of the practice of Catholic virtue was at the core of John Paul 2's project. But even in the Church the relationship of practice and belief hangs by a thread.I read the New Testament and I see Christ talking about a lot of doing and not about a lot of feeling. Christianity is not an attitude. The test of spirituality, especially in its most mystical forms has always and ever been whether it makes one practice better. Christianity is a practice. One does it. And the infusion of Christianity into our entire life is effected by the fact that we are never not engaging in practice. But
Sorry about that last word hanging there in my last post. Actually, there are no buts about it.
Unagidon, thank you for your clarification.I agree that Christianity is not an attitude or a set of beliefs divorced from practice. The adage "Put your money where your mouth is" contains much truth in this regard. However, whether practice precedes belief or vice versa may be one of those eternal questions (like the one about the chicken and the egg) that may never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. I do agree with your view that the Catholic Church contains (within the Christian context) the longest history of the systematic practice of the virtues (Jewish practice would be older). Would you not agree, though, that non-Catholic Christians have practiced the virtues --- and continue to practice such virtues --- to this day? Do the virtues of faith, hope, and charity have a uniquely Catholic stamp on them? In the final analysis, is longevity of practice (Catholic vs. Protestant) really that important?You mention that in your reading of the New Testament, you see Jesus emphasizing the "doing" and not the "feeling." Please correct me if I misunderstand, but are you equating "feeling" with "believing?" I do not regard them as the same although I suspect there can be a motivational tie-in.I do share your concern about supposed Christians (I call 'em Kreesh-tuns) justifying actions such as military invasions and bombing of abortion facilities on their so-called "Chreeshtun faith."If you could address some of my questions/concerns, I would be most appreciative.
Joseph said: "However, whether practice precedes belief or vice versa may be one of those eternal questions (like the one about the chicken and the egg) that may never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction."It could be, but I don't think that they see it that way. And we didn't use to see it that way either.Three examples (two from outside the West). I spent a summer in Cairo Egypt once, and I got into a discussion about the Ramadan fast (and observances) with a devout Muslim (Sufi, as it happened) connected to the Mosque of Hussein. He told me that as a practice, he required acolytes to perform Ramadan level observances for something like 45 days, saying that people in general could perform them for a month (because they believed they were expected to) but that someone who performed them for his longer period would actually experience a spiritual change. This would come not through some kind of magic, but would create a sort of acclimation that he compared to a skill that would itself create a sort of spiritual change of heart. I don't have time here to go into how he claimed this would work exactly, but he did equate religious practice with the cultivation of religious skill. He sort of said one needs to "just do it".Second, I lived in Japan for several years and became acquainted with a rather famous potter. A friend of mine was trying to become an apprentice with this person. The potter claimed to be an adept of the spirituality of the art of creating pottery and his apprenticeship required that the novice make sake cups for several years, before moving on to tea cups, then rice bowls, etc. If the novice worked well for twenty years or so, he or she was reckoned to be spiritually ready to attempt some modest act of individual creation. I should note that in the case of the potter, no "talent" was assumed or required.The third case would be our own massive Catholic literature of spiritual exercises. Again, while one might be moved by grace to take up these exercises, the intent of the exercises is to develop one's spirituality as a skill, and there seems to be an assumption in the ones that I am familiar with that the adept has little or no skill in this area, and some of them (St Theresa of Avila) seem to assume that some "unlearning" will need to take place at the beginning.Joseph said: "I do agree with your view that the Catholic Church contains (within the Christian context) the longest history of the systematic practice of the virtues (Jewish practice would be older). Would you not agree, though, that non-Catholic Christians have practiced the virtues --- and continue to practice such virtues --- to this day? Do the virtues of faith, hope, and charity have a uniquely Catholic stamp on them? In the final analysis, is longevity of practice (Catholic vs. Protestant) really that important?"The virtues, I think, assume something on the order of "natural law". Natural law is a tricky subject, even for Catholics. We don't like the idea of natural law, because it seems like an intrusion by the Church into a sphere that belongs to scientists, and it puts people who disagree with things claimed by natural law logic in the position of being, well, unnatural. But natural law assumes I believe that the virtues are the universal reflection of a natural order. As such, humans can have access to them and follow them as part of the natural order themselves. It is not the case that Catholics inhabit a different natural order from other people. Some Protestants may hold that Christ died for many, but we don't. All humans strive for God. All humans believe in everything that they do that they are doing that which is aiming to the fulfillment for them as humans.Faith, hope, and charity were additional insights provided to us of the natural order through revelation. Revelation is necessary because not all things can be seen through either science or rationality. (Note that in the other thread on art we can't even readily define what art is, even though we have been practicing it for over 20,000 years).As for the longevity of practice, here is one of my dirty little beliefs. The thing to me that makes Catholicism superior in its way is that it contains within itself all the other religious beliefs. The various Protestant sects broke off from the Church, but their ideas did not leave the Church. Their ideas first of all sprang from the Church. But second, I see people arguing strenuously here and I see the clear echo of, say, the debate between the Jansenists and the Semi-Pelagians from hundreds of years ago. Some here think that one had to fear God to love God. Others think that one has to love God to fear God. An old Jesuit once told me that the Catholic Church is catholic because there is room for everyone and I have found over the years more consistent Lutherans and Calvinists at my local parish than at the local Protestant Church. Years ago I took a degree in sociology in order to try to understand society. Now I am inclined to think that if one wants to understand society, one should take a degree in theology. Despite what the secularists, agnostics, atheists, theists, etc. say, we fight the same battles and have the same arguments over and over and over again.Joseph said: "You mention that in your reading of the New Testament, you see Jesus emphasizing the "doing" and not the "feeling." Please correct me if I misunderstand, but are you equating "feeling" with "believing?" I do not regard them as the same although I suspect there can be a motivational tie-in."I suspect that the distinction that we moderns make between action and belief is not as sharp was we think it is. As some ex-soldiers report, one is not brave in combat. One ACTS bravely in combat and that is where bravery comes from. We think somehow that we can believe without acting. I'm not sure we can. I think the message of Christ is that both are contained in the same act, as this is why I put action before belief and why I think the ancients did to. For the ancients, one could say, act and wisdom will come.I'll leave on another Japan note. I spent a couple of nights once in a Buddhist monastery on Mt Koya. One of the monks was trying to teach a group of us Americans how to meditate. People had all kinds of metaphysical ideas about what meditation was. The monk said that meditation is a skill and its function was, in essence, to shut up the little voice in our head that keeps blabbing constantly. He said that meditation was often hard to teach to Westerners because we identify ourselves with that blabbing little voice that claims to express our beliefs. He said that Westerners were often afraid that if they shut that voice off, they would somehow lose themselves. But he said that one cannot lose oneself and to not be afraid. He said wisdom comes with being present in the present moment and simply doing. This sounded to me rather like what Christ was saying.Patrick
"Actions speak louder than words." I am not convinced, however, that an act does not betray a quality/virtue already present within the doer. Using your combat example, a soldier might demonstrate courage even though s/he was not at all regarded as brave beforehand by his/her comrades. In this scenario, the act is evidence of a virtue that, perhaps, simply lay dormant within the individual. The doing, so to speak, was contingent on the right circumstances at the right time.Regarding developing spirituality as a skill, I must rely on the above explanation as at least a possibility. Would such an individual not have at least the aptitude (defined as natural ability plus right attitude) for spiritual exercises? Here I would see "talent" as the kernel of already present virtue/ability/quality.I'm not qualified to comment either way on non-Western practices that you've described. I've no doubt we have much that can be (and has been) learned from the East.I share your view that natural law is a "tricky subject." The content of such law seems to depend on the person asked. Humanae Vitae's proscription of artificial birth control comes to mind. I find it interesting that natural law, so far as I know, was developed in the West. What non-Western cultures might have to say on the content of natural law, I cannot say."The thing to me that makes Catholicism superior in its way is that it contains within itself all the other religious beliefs." I suspect you were referring to Western beliefs. I'm reminded here of the Jesuits' attempt to bring Christianity to China and of how their missionary efforts were quite effectively neutralized by the Vatican. What might the Catholic Church have learned from the Chinese and their religious/philosophical traditions but for interference by other Catholic religious orders and ultimately Rome itself? I must admit, also, that when I first read your statement above, my initial reaction was "So What?" If other Christians have the gospel message and the means of salvation, it would seem to me that any Catholic claim to "superiority" is ultimately superfluous. If all Christians are children of the same Creator who entrusted his Son to give us the Good News, I do not think God cares one whit about the superiority or inferiority of different Christian pathways to our heavenly reward. While Jesus prayed that his followers be one, I do not recall the Lord defining the word 'one.' I do, though, recall Jesus telling his disciples that those not against them are for them (and, presumably, for his message).


text:
1. To procrastinate, waste time dilly dally around all day!
3. to accomplish absolutely nothing all day.
2. to dick around .
3. to accomplish absolutely nothing all day.
1. I was just Flacking around.
2. she's probably just Flacking around the house.
2. she's probably just Flacking around the house.
by whipmenorris November 05, 2009
Trending Now
Top Definition
Someone whose job is to represent an organization and answer questions about it, especially when something bad has happened.
They spent millions hiring flacks to improve the company`s image.
by Bere September 25, 2006
One paid to represent the views of an individual, group, or organzation, such as a communications specialist, press secretary, spokesperson, or public relations counsel. Usage note: do not confuse with flak, meaning (in modern usage) opposition, especially when particularly contentious.
The flack for the tobacco company took flak over his statement that cigarettes were not proven to cause cancer.
by A. Flack October 31, 2007
crap, or abuse; excess pressure on oneself; burdens or weight added by unecessary trials or psychological pressures
My teacher gave me flack for talking in class; Why can't you keep the flack light when I'm trying to study?
by William Highsmith March 14, 2003
North Jersey slang for cocaine
Ayo you got that flack for sale?
We gonna flack it up at the club tonight
We gonna flack it up at the club tonight
by shoe-RONICS December 21, 2010
Flack: Based on the word flak, flack is the sensation that one is being attacked by something that doesn't make direct hits while still causing trouble or damage.
Tucker's latest post really flacked me.
by Paulgilgrah June 06, 2004
The extra saggy skin around the vagina or scrotum. Usually is left if not circumsized. Dangles or hangs from body when very warm or hot in lower body region. Can be pulled on when having sex and usually gets in the way of a condom. Flack is common on males and can get stinky if kept unclean.
"Dude! Your flack is hanging out of your boxers!"
"Girl-let me see your flack."
"Girl-let me see your flack."
by Bob Bobby Bobbyman March 03, 2009


text: Mr. and Mrs. Salvatore Rinaldi celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary with a party given by their family at the Ballo Restaurant at Mohegan Sun Casino in Uncasville. Mr. and Mrs. Rinaldi were married Sept. 13, 1952, at St. Lucy's Church in Waterbury. They have two children, Pat Rinaldi of Southbury and Sal Rinaldi of Watertown and four grandchildren.


text:
Hepatitis Health Center
Hepatitis Illnesses Hit Record Lows
March 15, 2007 -- Reported illness from hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C dropped dramatically in the U.S. from 1995 to 2005, hitting record lows, says the CDC.
Reported acute cases of hepatitis A and hepatitis B haven't been this low since the government started keeping hepatitis records in 1966.
Reported acute cases of hepatitis C are also at a record low, but those records don't date back as far, according to the CDC.
Hepatitis is a liver disease caused by at least five different viruses, in addition to its non-viral causes. Hepatitis A, B, and C are America's three most common types of viral hepatitis.
Hepatitis infection doesn't always trigger immediate symptoms -- which can include jaundice and abdominal pain -- and the CDC's new data doesn't include people with hepatitis who have no symptoms.
" ... There are still a larger number of infections that are out there than are caught by our surveillance," says CDC epidemiologist Annemarie Wasley, ScD.
However, "The fact that we're seeing declining numbers of new symptomatic cases indicates that the number of new infections is also declining," Wasley, who works in the CDC's division of viral hepatitis, tells WebMD.
The CDC estimates that about 113,000 people in the U.S. became infected with one of these three hepatitis viruses in 2005.
The statistics appear in the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report: Surveillance Summaries.
Types of Hepatitis
Hepatitis confuses many people because there are so many different types.
Also, people with hepatitis often have no symptoms, although viral hepatitis infections can be detected with a blood test.
Hepatitis A is an inflammation of the liver caused by infection with the hepatitis A virus. Poor sanitary conditions and personal hygiene practices contribute to spread of the disease.
Hepatitis A is not a chronic disease, and once you have gotten over a hepatitis A infection, you can't get it again.
Unlike hepatitis A, hepatitis B and C can be chronic and can lead to permanent liver damage, cirrhosis, liver failure, and liver cancer.
Inflammation of the liver can also be due to noninfectious causes of hepatitis such as alcohol and certain medications.