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In the past week, thanks to the New York Times, I've thought about indulgences at least as much as I had in my entire life up to this point. Judging from the lively back-and-forth on this post, I'm not the only one who's been doing some quick self-catechesis.For those not yet sick of the topic, the NYT follows up today with an online "Room for Debate" blog (their term -- it's not a "blog" in any real sense of the word, just a collection of short articles). Unfortunately, the Times is still not getting any holy cards for their explanation:
Catholic churches have recently revived indulgences, a spiritual tradition that faded away in the 1960s after the Second Vatican Council. The indulgence, as Paul Vitello of The New York Times explained in a recent article, is "a sort of amnesty from punishment in the afterlife."
Oh well. If readers keep going, they'll see that notion debunked by the always even-tempered John Allen (too bad they didn't ask him for help in the first place!). His take is an especially helpful exercise of his talent for combining comprehensiveness and comprehensibility. I do think he's being a tad optimistic, however, when he notes, after describing the situation that made "indulgences" a dirty word: "Needless to say, that abuse was curbed a long time ago." I wish it were "needless" to point that out, but in fact it seems to be quite necessary. (The absence of corruption in the Church is hardly something the average newspaper reader is willing to take for granted.)
The next response is from University of Scranton medieval-history professor Robert Shaffern (from my hometown parish!). He places the subject in a helpful historical context -- though he may be giving readers (like me) too much credit by referring to, but not elaborating on, "the creeping Pelagianism that many think is a serious problem among Catholics today."The other two responses are generally predictable reactions from right and left. Colleen Carroll Campbell, a fellow of the Ethics and Public Policy Center called on to give the positive take, can't resist trotting out that old postconciliar caricature:
Catholics growing up in the 1970s and 1980s were more likely to spend their CCD classes making felt banners and painting "Jesus Loves You" on rocks than learning about the necessity of frequent sacramental confession or the means the Church offers to alleviate "temporal punishment due to sin."
I'm a product of this era, and yes, I did my share of religious arts and crafts. But what this version of the story leaves out is the fact that religious ed of previous generations had its own unhealthy excesses. Yesterday I was talking with a religious sister who is a hospital chaplain. She said many of the older patients she ministers to as they face death are struggling with an overwhelming amount of fear -- their concepts of the afterlife are so crowded with calculations about sin and punishment, purgatory and pain, that they can't take comfort in the thought of going home to God. She said, "Their childhood faith had no concept of a loving God" -- and without that, even careful instruction in the intricacies of indulgences, purgatory, and "temporal punishment" can't prepare a person to meet God face to face. If catechists took a soft approach in the 1970s, perhaps it's because they resented having to research God's soft side on their own. I may have been relatively untutored in the double consequence of sin, but the "Jesus Loves You" message came through loud and clear -- and if I now embrace the idea of purgatory as a fundamentally hopeful notion, rather than another frightening obstacle to happiness, I suspect that's why.Campbell is eloquent, however, in explaining the appeal of indulgences (and the theology that supports them) to spiritual seekers. The rebuttal from the left, offered by Leonard Swidler, is less helpful -- Benedict may be intent on "roll[ing] back the joyful renewal accomplishments of the Second Vatican Council," but I think there are better grounds on which to make that argument. And yes, of course, the pope has bigger fish to fry (or catch?), but (at least until this week) announcing the occasional plenary indulgence wasn't preventing progress in other areas, as far as I can see.I grant a partial indulgence (void where prohibited) for anyone still putting up with all this indulgence talk from me. Happy Valentine's Day, everyone. And don't forget: Jesus loves you!Update: One more follow-up post here.
About the Author
Mollie Wilson O'Reilly is an editor at large and columnist at Commonweal.
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I pray for the living and the dead, and I also have occasional quite frank talks with God. I have no room for this indulgence stuff (maybe it's because I'm half-Protestant, my Tridentine altar boy days notwithstanding? :)Perhaps because of my study and interest in organizational culture, not to mention a greater appreciation for Vatican II because of Benedict's attempts to undermine it, I see efforts at reviving, inter alia, the old Latin mass, fancy ecclesial garb, and indulgences as dangerous moves that simply reinforce the paternalistic/clerical culture of the Church of Rome. As I've noted before elsewhere, we certainly know some of the scandalous "fruits" of this culture, not to mention the harm inflicted on children and other vulnerable folks as well as financial and other wrongdoing by bishops and priests who somehow believe they were/are above the law.Words, symbols, beliefs, clothing, etc. all have meaning. We come to take certain beliefs and underlying assumptions for granted. And look what we got!!!Those who don't learn the lessons of history...and of group psychology...................
Mollie --I keep looking for reasons so many people have left the Church, and I wonder whether it was the image of God as only a stern, even sadistic judge that did it. Here that was not the only image we were given of Him. I also wonder whether the individual religious orders had their own official images of what God is like. The St. Joseph nuns here certainly didn't teach God-as-Horror, nor did the Ursulines or Jesuits or Holy Cross brothers. Hmm. Now that I think of it I did get the feeling back then from the graduates of St. Aloysius High School that the local Christian Brothers did emphasize the punitive side of authority. Some really mean guys there. The local seminary here taught the seminarians that God is love, and that might have had a lot to do with our understanding of a fundamentaly benevolent God. Or maybe it was the local bishops who set the tone.On the other hand, I don't think fewer people have been lost to the Church here than have been lost in other places. It does seem to me that funerals here still tend to include Mass. Complexity, complexity.
After reading all the pieces, it still seems to me that the idea of Purgatory and the idea of indulgences are incompatible. However you look at it, an indulgence is a shortcut. Getting the merit for 40 days of penance by performing simple actions that take a few moments just doesn't make sense. Being a soul in Purgatory and being instantaneously and completely purified because of something a living person does makes even less sense. Developing mentally or spiritually is no different from developing physically. Even if you take steroids to build muscles, you still have to do the exercises.
Hello All,As I mentioned on the earlier thread Mollie started on indulgences, in my own case this is the doctrine that has given me more personal trouble than all the other "hot button" Roman Catholic doctrines and teachings combined. I was somewhat surprised that most of the 120+ posts on Mollie's earlier thread reflected attitudes towards indulgences even more hostile than those I expressed. Surely some of we Commonwealers must like indulgences better than I do!All levity aside, I aspire to be an orthodox Roman Catholic now that I have reverted. So I've concluded I am not entirely free to do as I did when I was a youngster raised as a cradle Catholic, which was to ignore Church teaching on indulgences altogether and avoid practices that "earned" one an indulgence. The theologians here can correct me but if I'm right I cannot reject Church teaching on indulgences outright without veering into heresy.At least I think I have some understanding of why so many of we Catholics despise Church teaching on indulgences, while so many others love it. One background question lurking behind this and many other issues we discuss here is simply this: Why be Catholic? At the risk of oversimplification, I think one answer many would give goes something like this: God wants each person to be a faithful Catholic, and He will tend to reward the faithful Catholics more (or at least punish them less) than those who are not Catholic or (Heaven forbid) are "cafeteria Catholics" who disobey certain Church teachings such as the prohibition on contraception or reject certain Church doctrines such as the doctrine of purgatory. This kind of answer is comforting in a certain sense, reflected in a slogan I have read: "The Catholic Church is a hard church to live in, but a good church to die in.". I emphasize that I mean no disrespect to Catholics who would agree with this kind of answer. After all, this is quite a natural conclusion to draw given what the CCC declares regarding Heaven, purgatory, indulgences and so on. (I would add, though, that if I favored this answer I would be somewhat reluctant to try to convert anyone to Roman Catholicism. If this were the best answer, would not God be more lenient with people who never became Catholics in the first place than with people who are "cafeteria Catholics"?)But what if you are a Catholic like me, who resists the former answer? (As I mentioned in an earlier post, one can remain within the bounds of orthodoxy and still believe that no one will ultimately end up in hell, that purgatory is not a state of torment where God is getting his "pound of flesh", and especially that Roman Catholics are not liable to get privileged treatment from God.) Then I think one can still give good reasons for being Roman Catholic. But I think if you try to take this line like I try then I think it's simply hard to understand indulgences. I'm sorry to be crass but every time I see indulgences discussed in official Church documents, I get the impression that they are "get out of jail (purgatory) free" cards that only Roman Catholics can receive. And why would anyone want an indulgence unless the temporal punishment of purgatory were torment that did not heal? And does it make complete sense to say that our sins are forgiven but unless we get our indulgences we will receive a kind of vengeful punishment in purgatory? And. . . ?So I'm not at all tired of talking about indulgences myself. I need help, and from what I saw on the earlier thread I think I am not the only one. Is there a different way to understand indulgences?And let me second Mollie's wishes to you all that you have a very Happy St. Valentine's Day.
Peter, perhaps a good part of my objection/rejection of indulgences is the formalistic/legalistic nature of this teaching. Jesus gave us the two great commandments, i.e., to love God and one's neighbor. This indulgence stuff simply comes across as artificial, mechanical. The Law is Love, a teaching/understanding that reflects the Creator of the Law. I cannot see God or his love/forgiveness/mercy somehow constrained within the four pages of a papal declaration or formal teaching on this subject.In addition, "appearance is reality." The Vatican should either do a better job of explaining the rationale for indulgences, or it should let this topic die off (my guess is that the Spirit is ticked off at Benedict for not allowing this teaching die a natural ecclesial death :)
My objection is the notion that God has special discounts only available to Catholics, while all others have to remit the full price of salvation. It's like some divine merchandising card.
I still miss 40 days per pious ejaculation that I got in my teenage years.Don't dwell on that too long ..... http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=156355
I have not yet tried to wade through the other posts, so I apologize if I am repeating what others have already said while I was away.1> Canon Law was codified in 1918, suspended after V2, and a revised code issued in 1984. During the period of suspension, all the specific periods of time were eliminated and there were only partial and plenary (full) indulgences. I think this is continued with the 1984 code, but I am not sure.2> The penalties remitted are for temporal punishments, ie pre-death. So if the punishment for murder was a 3-year pilgrimage, and saying one Hail Mary remits 3 days of punishment, then saying 365 Hail Marys would remit the penalty. Or walking around the Labyrinth in Chartres 720 times might do. But nothing has anything to do with three years in Purgatory, since it, like Heaven and Hell is in eternity, not in time.3> Purgatory includes the beatific vision which is characteristic of Heaven, which overwhelms any punishment there. Painful, even agonizing, but not the focus of attention, more like a fading annoyance. I just bought myself a copy of vonHugel's Mystical element in religion, which dwells on St Catherine of Genoa's visions of Purgatory. Maybe I will get back to this after looking at what those two have to say.
One more note to offer a metaphor.Suppose you are hungry for some bread to eat. To get bread, you have to grow wheat, mill it into flour, make into bread, and then eat it.If you know a farmer who will give you wheat, you can skip the first step. If you know a miller, you can skip the next. If you know a baker you can skip the next step. If you know all of these, and they will indulge you, you can satisfy your hunger, maybe even before you starve to death.And if you know Christ, by praying to Him, His mother or His friends, you might relieve your spiritual hunger by eating bread from heaven.
Mr. Jaglowicz,Pope Benedict is one of the foremost authorities in the world on the meaning, the aims, and the theology of Vatican II, certainly far, far more authoritative than any of us posting here now. Moreover, there is likely no one in the world more dedicated to seeing its aims realized than the Pope. Whether his theology and his papacy has met Joseph Jaglowicz's understanding of the aims of Vatican II is a different story. But to make that matter-of-fact accusation against the Holy Father--that he is attempting to undermine Vatican II--especially a Holy Father as learned as Benedict, is as uncalled for as it is unsupported.
I decided to pass up entering the previous post on the same topic. But Ann Olivier, ever wisely, has touched on my hesitations, great hesitations. It comes down to this -- scrupulosity. It's, I strongly believe, a cognate topic. I don't want to go there. It is a deeply painful subject. So many tormented, and, in the limited vision of this life, ruined lives -- priests, religious, laity. I don't doubt that this awful agony still exists here and there, but nothing like in the Church of my youth and before. I was twenty-five when the Council ended. It is a large subject, and probably deserves a thread all its own. Oh the hurt, oh the incredible hurt! "Sinners in the hands of an angry God." The God of the calculator.
I saw that Matt wrote ... "Pope Benedict is one of the foremost authorities in the world on the meaning, the aims, and the theology of Vatican II, certainly far, far more authoritative than any of us posting here now. Moreover, there is likely no one in the world more dedicated to seeing its aims realized than the Pope."...Yes, Benedict was at the Council, but I think a number of people, including Leonardo Boff, would disagree with your conclusion that no one wants the aims of the Council realized more than he.
Of the four "experts" quoted, Leonard Swidler seems most qualified and most on target. To place Coleen Carroll Campbell as an expert is really a confounding of scholarship. But she has all the Tridentne credentials; Ethics and Public Policy Center and Ewtn. John Allen takes the easy path and tries to make everyone happy.At any rate, for those who believe in this stuff I am here to assure you that you will receive a plenary indulgence everytime you read this post.
I didn't see anything in the Wek in Review on this "newsworthy" topic this morning. Or did I miss something?
Hello Jim McK (and All),Thank you for your informative posts. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little:"2> The penalties remitted are for temporal punishments, ie pre-death. So if the punishment for murder was a 3-year pilgrimage, and saying one Hail Mary remits 3 days of punishment, then saying 365 Hail Marys would remit the penalty. Or walking around the Labyrinth in Chartres 720 times might do. But nothing has anything to do with three years in Purgatory, since it, like Heaven and Hell is in eternity, not in time."Is your source the 1984 Code of Canon Law? If one checks the CCC (which I did earlier today) then it seems that temporal punishment refers to punishment either before death or in purgatory, perhaps both. Paragraphs 1479 and 1498 strike me as especially explicit on this point because they refer to the possibility of obtaining indulgences forthise who have died before us.Regarding the last sentence I quoted you from above, this is certainly the current teaching of the Church made explicit at least since Paul VI's teachings on indulgences. Do you (or any other participants here) know if this has always been the theaching of the Church? If so, then some of what I (and surely others here) read and heard years ago would have to be in error. For example, I read as a youngster that blessing oneself with holy water upon entering a Church gained one an indulgence "worth" 10 days (which I admit is why at twelve I abruptly stopped blessing myself with holy water in church). I also received cards with an image of the BVM on one side, and the Hail Mary pronted on the other together with a footnote declaring that praying the Rosary gained one an indulgence "worth" 500 days (and I admit I discarded theses cards).Not that I would be surprised to learn that the Church has never taught that the temporal punishment of sin is like a prison sentence to be measured out in the time we know. I'm continually impressed by the large gaps between what the Church (in any given era) teaches and what most Catholics (in any given era) believe(d) the Church teaches.
Hello again Jim McK (and All),Sigh, I realized I have been perhaps too hasty in my last post. I realized that if my reading of the CCC is wrong and your interpretation of temporal punishment as punishment before death only is the right one, then it could make sense to assign specific periods of time to acts that gain one indulgences. And you tried to make that clear in your earlier post, so I aoplogize for my sloppy reading.I have to admit that even on your interpretation I don't like indulgences any better (for the reason I and Antonio gave earlier). I guess I need to keep working at it.
John Page --I think it's your own acute perceptivity that grasped the connection between indulgences and scrupulosity. I agree that scrupulosity is an important topic worth an airing. I fear that the conservative direction the Church is going in these days will only lead back to it. Not that the liberal turn didn't result in a loss of a sense of sin in some eople. But there is a happy medium, I think.
Peter --Where is it written that the Beatific Vision will start immediately? That's not what I was taught.I don't find any problem with suffering after death -- spiritual suffering is very real, and so I don't see the necessity for physical suffering. Those "fires" are probably meant metaphorically, I suspect. I just don't see any point in physical suffering. It's our souls that need changing.
Peter, please understand that I state what I learned. It may or may not be true, so I am grateful for any insight you can provide.Von Hugel's Mystical Element in Religion is a study of St Catherine of Genoa with the intent of describing religious experience more generally. Since St CG had visions of Purgatory as well as Heaven and Hell, he goes into her ideas about indulgences and purgatory. He goes into a long discussion of time and eternity in purgatory vs heaven's eternity, and concludes that there must be time/succession in Purgatory, though St CG seems to hold a number of irreconcilable opinions on the matter.My sense of Purgatory is that we do not know. Talk of time there may be metaphor, or there may really be time there. In any event, we do not know what kind of time-bound punishments God might decree for each situation, so applying indulgences to '3 days in purgatory' simply makes no sense. At best it is applied to the purgatorial equivalent of 3 days punishment on earth, which may or may not be 3 days in purgatory.(Ann, I think you are addressing something I said which has to do with the question of duration and succession in Purgatory. So where is it written that the Beatific Vision starts, and so is not eternal?)This discussion is somewhat abstract, as are any discussions of time paradoxes whether in religion or in Science Fiction. That is about the only level on which indulgences interests me; I would rather spend my time on God's love. (though St CG has some interesting thoughts on love and justice.)
I sympathize with the NYT reporters trying to explain indulgences. My mother, not a trinitarian Christian, asked me about this over the weekend, and the various metaphors you try to use never seem entirely apt (I tried grocery store coupons and fell into a morass with the whole expiration date issue. No, Mom, they don't have expiration dates, but you have to EARN the indulgence within a certain time frame). Not a conversation I want to repeat anytime soon.Interesting sidenote: Mom thought the Church was still selling indulgences ("Don't you have to buy them, just like those annulment divorces?"). I wonder how widespread the notion of indulgences for sale is. I wonder whether this is something the Catholic League might address. If/when it decides to quit freaking out about obscure dadaist videos on YouTube that hardly anybody sees, of course.
"3> Purgatory includes the beatific vision which is characteristic of Heaven, which overwhelms any punishment there. Painful, even agonizing, but not the focus of attention, more like a fading annoyance. ""Where is it written that the Beatific Vision will start immediately? Thats not what I was taught."I believe Ann is right about this - Purgatory is what prepares us for the beatific vision, which is heaven.
Jim McK --Don't ask me about the teachings about Purgatory. I'm not too interested either, except I"m convinced there has to be some sort of cleansing "time". As to Purgatory being eternal, I doubt it existed with nobody in it, so that would make it finite at that end, and it will end at the Last Judgment. At least that's what my little Primer Catechism that I ran across yesterday taught me. What a charming, existential little treatise it is! E. g.::Q: What does the Resurrection mean?A.: The Resurrection means that Our Lord came back to life. Q,: Will there always be a Purgatory/A,: There will be no Purgatory at the end of the world.Q. What must we do after Holy Commiunion?A. After Holy Communion we must stay awhile and and pray to God to thank HIm.(Yes, pre-Vat II had certain advantages :-)
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but this morning I came across the NYT letter to the editor reproduced below, and I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the writer's (he identifies himself as a member of the faculty at Ave Maria University) comment that reception of the Eucharist absolves the recipient of venial sins. Despite elementary, secondary, and tertiary education in Catholic schools, I did something of a double take when I saw that comment. I know one cannot receive in a state of mortal sin, and I know that receiving the Eucharist provides sanctifying grace, but I confess (pun intended) to not knowing that venial sins can be forgiven by receiving the Eucharist. To the Editor:You article states, To remain in good standing, Catholics are required to confess their sins at least once a year. In fact, Catholics must make what is commonly known as their Easter duty, which requires the reception of the Eucharist once a year during the Easter season, but are required to go to confession only if they have committed a mortal sin to receive the Eucharist. Since the Eucharist takes away venial sin, a Catholic may never have to go to confession if mortal sin is not present. But the church does encourage frequent confession for growth in the spiritual life; hence, the renewed emphasis on the availability of indulgences that are attached to a sacramental confession. (Rev.) Michael P. OrsiAnn Arbor, Mich., Feb. 10, 2009
Hmm. Maybe when he says "the Eucharist takes away Venial sin," he means the Mass itself, including the penetential rite (and not just reception of Communion)? I also thought you had to go to Confession once per year regardless of whether you had mortal sins to confess. But I suppose Fr. Orsi would know the rubrics better than I.Here's a link to the letters published today, including the one above.
Fr. Orsi is right. Cf. paragraph 1393 of Catechism of the Catholic Church. Mollie, you're also right that the penitential rite at mass also leads to forgiveness of venial sins. But it's worth remembering that for those who are hospitalized, homebound etc. communion is received outside of mass.
Hello All,Well, I for one am still reading. William's post surprises me as well as Mollie. I had never heard that either attending Mass or receiving the Eucharist results in one's venial sins being forgiven. But I wonder if Fr. Orsi might be slightly in error, because while the CCC states that Catholics are obligated to receive the Eucharist at least once a year, it also state's it's preferable (not mandatory) that one receives during the Easter season. (How's that for nitpicking!)I had thought that Mollie's was the right understanding, that is, that one is obligated to receive the sacrament of reconciliation at least once a year. But as Mollie notes Fr. Orsi probably knows what's what on this question.A more general comment: From the discussion on this thread regarding indulgences, reconciliation and so on it's becoming apparent that even with 2800+ paragraphs the CCC is not going to provide answers to everyone's questions. Which is perhaps for the best.
Hello Ann (and all),"Where is it written that the Beatific Vision will start immediately? Thats not what I was taught."Me, neither."I dont find any problem with suffering after death spiritual suffering is very real, and so I dont see the necessity for physical suffering. Those fires are probably meant metaphorically, I suspect. I just dont see any point in physical suffering. Its our souls that need changing."I think you Cathleen and I have a similar view of the purpose of suffering after death, and if we are right tehn this is in fact something to look forward to. I think the problem remains, how should we then understand indulgences? Why, for example, should I pray for the intention that a dead loved one receive an indulgence if the suffering in purgatory is remedial? Why should I want one if the point of spiritual suffering is to change my soul?Incidentally I learned some time back that "penance" literally means conversion. I think the term has fallen somewhat out of use because we catholics have mistakenly thought that penance refers to penalties. It would be interesing to study a reliable history of the issues we are discussing here, such as indulgences and the sacrament of reconciliation. (Unfortunately unreliable histories are all too easy to come by.)
Hello Jean (and All),"Interesting sidenote: Mom thought the Church was still selling indulgences"I'm pretty sure that the sale of indulgences for money was outlawed by the Council of Trent. But as a youngster I learned of a much more recent practice I find just about as appalling as the sale of indulgences. Children in parochial schools are frequently obligated to sell magazine subscriptions in support of their schools. In some cases these children could offer a scapular as a premium for buying a magazine subscription, and they would market their subscriptions by repeating the story that one who wears a scapular at the point of death will not suffer the fires of hell. I've read reports of this going on till at least the 1960s but so far as I know the practice has died out completely.I was greatly relieved to learn that it's not an article of faith that wearing a scapular protects one from hell should one die while wearing it. But I'm afraid I have never gotten past my youthful aversion to scapulars.
"I think you Cathleen and I have a similar view of the purpose of suffering after death, and if we are right tehn this is in fact something to look forward to. I think the problem remains, how should we then understand indulgences? Why, for example, should I pray for the intention that a dead loved one receive an indulgence if the suffering in purgatory is remedial? Why should I want one if the point of spiritual suffering is to change my soul?"Hi, Peter, it seems that indulgences offered on behalf of a loved one can have a couple of salutary effects: (1) they reduce the pain and suffering to which the loved one is subject in Purgatory - something that I suspect most of us are only too glad to do on behalf of our parents and grandparents; and (2) they speed the loved one's ascent to the beatific vision (using "speed" advisedly; I'm at a loss on how to express these ideas in temporally-neutered language). I've recommended this once before: for those who would like a deeper understanding of indulgences than what the CCC covers (the CCC seems inadequate), please take a look at Paul VI's very accessible and relatively brief apostolic constitution on indulgences. I especially recommend chapter 2, which discusses the solidarity and exchange of spiritual fruits within the community of the faithful, both living and dead. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6INDULG.HTM
Jim P. is right (I never doubted him) about pointing us to section 1393 of the CCC, which when read in conjunction with sections 1394 and 1395 seem to make clear that receipt of the Eucharist leads to remission of venial sins. All three sections are part of the topic about the "fruits" of the Eucharistic, one of which is that "Holy Communion separates us from sin": "1393. Holy Communion separates us from sin. The body of Christ we receive in Holy Communion is "given up for us," and the blood we drink "shed for the many for the forgiveness of sins." For this reason the Eucharist cannot unite us to Christ without at the same time cleansing us from past sins and preserving us from future sins: 'For as often as we eat this bread and drink the cup, we proclaim the death of the Lord. If we proclaim the Lord's death, we proclaim the forgiveness of sins. If, as often as his blood is poured out, it is poured for the forgiveness of sins, I should always receive it, so that it may always forgive my sins. Because I always sin, I should always have a remedy.' 1394 As bodily nourishment restores lost strength, so the Eucharist strengthens our charity, which tends to be weakened in daily life; and this living charity wipes away venial sins. By giving himself to us Christ revives our love and enables us to break our disordered attachments to creatures and root ourselves in him: 'Since Christ died for us out of love, when we celebrate the memorial of his death at the moment of sacrifice we ask that love may be granted to us by the coming of the Holy Spirit. We humbly pray that in the strength of this love by which Christ willed to die for us, we, by receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, may be able to consider the world as crucified for us, and to be ourselves as crucified to the world. . . . Having received the gift of love, let us die to sin and live for God.' 1395 By the same charity that it enkindles in us, the Eucharist preserves us from future mortal sins. The more we share the life of Christ and progress in his friendship, the more difficult it is to break away from him by mortal sin. The Eucharist is not ordered to the forgiveness of mortal sins - that is proper to the sacrament of Reconciliation. The Eucharist is properly the sacrament of those who are in full communion with the Church."I'm glad I now know about this, and I wonder if Fr. Imbelli or Fr. Komonchak might have helpful commentary to share with us.
Hello Jim (and All),Thank you very much for the reference. Sorry I missed iy when you posted it previously. I will look forward to studying this. Pretty much everything I have ready by Paul VI has been terribly helpful, so I expect this will be very helpful as well. I have to admit I think that in the short run hostory has given him a rather raw deal. Hopefully he will get the credit that is his due over time.I agree with your comment about the CCC. I've come to the conclusion that the CCC should be used like an encyclopedia, in that one can consult the CCC if one has a specific question and one might get a short, fairly straightforward answer. But I don't think one regard the CCC as the final word on any topic, and I also don't think it's suitable as a textbook. (and I don't think the authors meant the CCC to be regarded as either a textbook or the final word on anything.)
I heard of the Eucharist absolving sin about 30 years ago, and of course it makes sense. The Eucharist is not just an extra, cream on the cake, but the full presence of the saving act of Christ, and therefore of the forgiveness of sins. One should approach with a repentant disposition: "With faith in your love and mercy, I eat Your Body and drink Your Blood; let it not bring me condemantion but health in mind and body". With the general disuse of Confession is it importat to bring out this aspect of the Eucharist.
William, thank you for fleshing out the CCC reference on the Eucharist and forgiveness. I would add for the benefit of readers that the quotes William provided within sections 1393 and 1394 are from St. Ambrose and St. Fulgentius of Ruspe respectively.And if, like me, you wonder, "Who the heck is St. Fulgentius of Ruspe?", check this out:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgentius_of_Ruspe
Hi, Peter, yes, I agree with you about Paul VI. He was the Pope throughout my childhood, until I was almost through high school. He doesn't seem to have made as big a splash in public consciousness as John XXIII and JPII, but he seems to have been a prolific writer, and like you I find his writings helpful. To me, he seems to have done a very good job helping the church digest and live the work of the council. Not that we're done with that work!
Matt Emerson, the Second Vatican Council ended just two months before my 18th birthday. I am not the only Catholic (unchurched as I may be right now) who sees Benedict --- notwithstanding his presence as a peritus at the council --- trying to weaken the impact and understanding of this momentous pastoral event. As others have noted elsewhere, this was not a council that issued anathemas, formal dogmas, etc. I think one must evaluate Vatican II in its totality and, by the way, in how it was overwhelmingly and positively received by the laity and clergy.I'll trust my perception.However, I've got a bridge in California for sale...........
Im pretty sure that the sale of indulgences for money was outlawed by the Council of Trent.Outlawed or not, I still recall getting charitable solicitations from various religious orders offering, by the way, to say prayers or conduct novenas for the living or dead. Has anyone received something like this recently? Strictly speaking, not a sale of indulgences but pretty darn close. That's why historian Peter Brown referred to the early convents and monataries subsidized by the local European warlords as "powerhouses of prayer".
"Pope Benedict is one of the foremost authorities in the world on the meaning, the aims, and the theology of Vatican II."You'd have a hard time convincing me and many others familiar with the council. Benedict, we are told, wants to "reform the reform."Vatican II was fundamentally about renewal, defined by my dictionary, in part, as "to make new or as if new again; restore." The latter word is defined, in part, as "to bring back into existence or use; re-establish; to bring back to an original condition."Reform, on the other hand (and this is Benedict's preferred term for Vatican II), is defined, in part, as "to improve by alteration, correction of error, or removal of defects; to abolish abuse or malpractice in."Church historian Christopher Bellitto offers "a simple comparison of reform and renewal language" used in the 21 general/ecumenical councils of the church. His research "reveals 113 examples of reform language in the ecumenical councils' documents, compared to 86 examples of renewal language. But 63 of the latter examples, nearly 75 percent of all uses of renewal language at ecumenical councils [over the centuries], are found in Vatican II's documents alone [!!!!!]." RENEWING CHRISTIANITY: A HISTORY OF CHURCH REFORM FROM DAY ONE TO VATICAN II, Paulist Press, 2001.If Benedict believes the Second Vatican Council was all about "reform," then his understanding (predicated on fear, I contend) does not reflect the overarching theme of this council, namely, aggorniamento and renewal."[T]here is likely no one in the world more dedicated to seeing [Vatican II's] aims realized than the Pope."Again, you would have a hard time persuading me and many others, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. Paul VI, if I recall, acknowledged that the Tridentine liturgy had been replaced (or words to that effect). Most Catholics were content to see the practice of indulgences fall by the wayside. Benedict is keen on bringing back a church culture directly responsible for the sacrificial victims of sexual abuse and episcopal coverup of same, financial and other irregularities of priests and bishops who believed they were/are above the law, and other obsolete artifacts too numerous to mention here.
Ann, and others, you could look at St CG's Treatise on Purgatory, a relatively brief document that is available on the web. She does not describe the experience of Purgatory as "the beatific vision", so I may have overstated that matter, but she does describe Purgatory as an experience of a vision of God's love that burns away our 'impurities'. But the pain, while greater than any felt in this life, does not matter to us because our love for our own self has been replaced by a greater love for God. An all consuming vision of God's love that is closer to the beatific vision than anything else...Obviously, this is only one way of teaching about Purgatory. Aquinas, or a friend (in the supplement to the ST) says one of the punishments of Purgatory is the delay of the Beatific vision. That is probably what you were taught. But some subjects are taught differently in different places, which is why the CCC is not always the final word.


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I am in need of re-posting random posts to the front page of the blog to make them fresh. Is there any hook that could help me achieve it? Thanks.
You may use the Old Post Promoter plugin: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/old-post-promoter/
This plugin promotes old posts by sending them back onto the front page and into the RSS feed. It does it randomly choosing an eligible post and updating the publication timestamp. The post then appears to be the latest post on your WordPress blog. "You down with OPP? Yeah you know me!"
You can sticky the post, which will place that at the top of your blog list.
Use featured post option. that can show multiple posts at the same time.

subset: commoncrawl


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[ 14 December 2012 to 13 January 2013. ]
This just in:
Presenting the fourth annual College Express exhibition, with outstanding artworks by Year 11 & 12 students from eight colleges and schools in the Belconnen region: Dickson, Gungahlin, Hawker, Radford and St Francis Xavier Colleges, Burgmann Anglican School, Melba Copland Secondary School Copland College and UC Secondary College Lake Ginninderra. In a stunning array [...]
[ 1 December 2012 to 19 January 2013. ] December
Saturday 1st 9:30pm
Bladder Spasms
Rather be Dead
Sunday 2nd 8pm
Lloyd Spiegel
Jonno Zilber
Monday 3rd 8pm
CMC presents The Bootleg Sessions
She & I
Fats Homicide
The Wanninashvilles
Tuesday 4th 7:30pm
Andrew and Shannon's Pub Trivia
Wednesday 5th 9pm
CIT end of year Jam
Thursday 6th 9pm
Sean McMahon's Western Union
Hannah Gillespie
Saturday 8th 9:30pm
Waterford's 5th Birthday
Owen M Carroll (Voss)
Shoeb Ahmad
Monday 10th 8pm
2XX Local n Live presents The Bootleg Sessions
Fun [...]
[ 1 November 2012 to 31 July 2013. ]
An intriguing exhibition up on the War Memorial website:
The small French village of Vignacourt was always behind the front lines. For much of the First World War it was a staging point, casualty clearing station and recreation area for troops of all nationalities moving up to and then back from the battlefields on the [...]
[ 3 January 2013 to 6 January 2013. ]
We've been getting a lot of google traffic from people looking for the summernats dates next year.
Just to help everyone out it's going to be 3 January to 6 January. More details on their website.
[ 14 December 2012 to 2 April 2013. ]
The National Gallery has announced Toulouse-Lautrec: Paris & the Moulin Rouge is the big summer drawcard coming up.
'The National Gallery of Australia is excited to bring together Australia's first Toulouse-Lautrec retrospective exhibition, showing only in Canberra. Together with our own collection of works, the exhibition will provide a comprehensive insight into the artistic life of [...]


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Forum Feedback - 11-09-2009, 09:02 PM
What would you like to see more of on the forums? What could use improvement? What do you like now? Dislike?
This thread is really the spawn of me trying to exam the forums in my mind. I have been thinking about how far it has come, but also dwelling on problems. I'm wondering if anyone else is feeling similarly and am looking to encourage a staff-member discussion without any fear of getting in trouble for criticisms(as long as they aren't just said to be nasty). Maybe through this discussion we can liven up the forums a bit more.
I've been trying to piece together what seems to be missing and I have yet to figure it out. I'm starting to believe it might be the lack of actual debates and discussions we used to have. While there was flaming, they were intense and prone to making others think. In fact, without these I often feel I have little work to do(while great, its disconcerting when we used to have to be moderators more often). I'm not sure why these have slowly become a dying breed. It certainly isn't because of any lack of topics provided, it simply seems to be a lack of desire to discuss them on a higher level now.
I've also noticed we have by far fewer regular members. Its not purely because of multiple accounts and while I know the site has been stuck in decay for a while, I sense its some sort of vibe people are getting from the forums. It used to be people shared the forums with their friends, they invited them to come on and we were a thriving community, but that is long gone.
I suppose what I'm putting out there is would this change if we were at another site? Is there someway we can liven up the forums and encourage more people to participate? I want to know everyone's opinions and I'm not just talking about an "I like them". I want hardcore criticisms, with the highlights and the problems brought out. I'm not only asking this as a staff member, but as a veteran member who is seeing a forum die before my eyes. Is it time for us to start fresh with a new forum? I know here we've been stopped in our progress, especially since we have ben trying to work out forum control issues for close to a year now and I'm starting to suspect it won't ever be fully adjusted, partially prompting this topic.
I am going to note that I am going to request all members stay polite. Now isn't the time for a bash fest of the staff.
Av & Sig Credit: Me
Ugh, the debate thing I truly miss as well. Debates are my kind of thing. I tend to get very intense during debates. xD It seems now however, that topics are either one-sided, or those that are stating their point on an issue do it very... well, very poorly.
ie. "OMG, I LOVE TWILIGHT!!1!!!1 Bella + Edward = <333!!"
By the way, that was just an example, but you can see what I mean... They give no reason as to WHY they like Twilight so much, they just do for some reason...
I'm actually starting to type up a thread that should get people going, because a coworker and I argue this point a lot. I actually feel like creating a lot more debate topics, but like you said, the problem seems to be a lack of desire to debate, and that will probably cause any new topics of debate to fail.
Maybe it's not just a lack of desire, maybe members are just unsure about how to say their opinions without flaming, and don't want to get in trouble. Flaming and debate are two different things, people!
Flaming: "Your opinion is STUPID. Get a life."
Debate: "I don't really agree with your opinion on this matter. Here's why: (list of reasons)."
I don't know what we can do about getting new members to join the community. It may have something to do with the main site even, and Jessica's (Support's) absence. Some previous members probably left when the main site stopped being updated.
Support's absence is also making it much harder for us to fix forum problems or change things around the forum. As much as I love this forum, maybe we should try and start up another forum or something on a different site. The best thing about starting fresh (on a new site not connected to TDP) is that we'll have full control over the boards, and will be able to fix our own forum issues.
But we'll need some one good with coding if we do decide to get a new forum. And it will certainly take some time, as well, so it won't happen overnight if we do decide on that idea.
Wouldn't that be fleeing?I mean you'd be leaving this Forum for numerous hours unattended for heaven knows what to happen.I mean I'm not saying anything bad'll happen,but there's a chance that there could if somebody actually payed attention to when the Staff of this Forum is gone.Maybe if you wanted to,you could go one at a time or soemthing.You'd get less work done,but you'd still get it done....eventually.
Take it into thought,maybe.
It's not fleeing, and it's not just staff that would go. You don't seem to get it. It's a forum-wide move to another site. All the members would come too.
We're having a lot of problems with administrative duties (Miranda does seem to have all the abilities of an admin), and a fresh start might be helpful.
And while building another forum up, we wouldn't all be working on it 24/7... Besides, it's only an idea to help fix some issues we're having here. It's certainly not definite or anything. Just throwing things out there.
Ah.Well then that does patch up all the little errors I had made
That seems like a great idea then,but wouldn't you want to let Jessica(Support) know 1st?Just in case she comes on here and notices that we've been moved to antoher Forum.
I feel like there's a lot of you who think alike or are just saying that you think alike thus the debating is comming to an end. Like for example: Twilight.
I love Twilight, but you won't see me debating it here in the forums because while I enjoy a good debate, no one likes to be tag-teamed against. The forums are too full of people who think exactly alike...or who say they think alike, so when the rare person comes along who doesn't think like the rest of you I think they feel that there's no point when all that's going to happen is that she/he gets a 8 on 1 'debate'.
I think a good idea would be to let there be a fan thread. So that the people who like something can see that they're not alone, without the hassle of having an 8 on 1. Let them make friends and become more involved. Gain confidence. Then I think you'll get your debates back. When the playing ground is more fair.
As for the flow going down, I'm convinced that it's due to the last Dollmaker Issue. I run a Club called The_Contestants and it's member list contains most of the devoted Contesters of the Contest Section. My member list had dropped substantially during the time when people couldn't make dolls. A lot of those members never came back.
I agree slightly with SRK. What will happen if you get too involved with the 'new forum'? I don't think ya'll will abandon us or anything, but I think it would feel like you would be leaving those of us who are devoted to the site (not the forums) high and dry.
I have to admit,there are ALOT of other dolling sites out there and it's lowering down TDP's popularity,even though it was the original creator of those doll sites.
Limefusion,DollieCrave,Kfave89.They're all popular because of what TDP has offered to them and basically are taking awat TDP's popularity or splitting it off into different sections.
Maybe a new forum is the best we can do...or we could have Support or somebody create another site for us to flee to until the site is back to normal.Almost like restarting over,except that premi's get to keep their premium and standards are still standard and we'll be gone for a few weeks on this other site with some sucky stuff because it wont be as good as TDP!
I just want to clarify right now that I do not intend to leave the forums and would continue to do my duties as a staff member. I've been here a long time(I'm not one of the oldest members for nothing) and I'm not about to abandon TDP just for another forum. In all of the tough times in my life and on the site, I never have and never will. In fact, I've been a part of another forum rather extensively for years and it hasn't interfered with my time(I'm not saying we spend every minute on another forum, its not the way they work ), so no one needs to worry about the factor of staff disappearing because that wasn't on my mind. I'd expect the rest of the staff as well to continue duties too as long as they desire to until the time inevitably comes where the site closes.
The reason I brought up a new forum is because myself and others have been concerned that the site could close down without much warning. Its happened to many sites and while money is being taken in, there's nothing to stop them from just refunding and closing it. My concept of another forum at this point would be to establish us somewhere else and spread word of it now before something happens, all in the event that if things really go downhill here or the site is facing a shutdown, we'd have somewhere else to go. Like a rescue forum, except I want to pre-empt the scrambling and the frequent creation of them after a site goes. A forum for that has been in progress since over the summer(since there were only three of us working on it though to code, pixel, and try to save the RPs though, its been slow moving, especially with the school year again)we came to the conclusion that we are now left to fend for ourselves. I even sent an email to support a few weeks ago(probably my bajillionth) to once more bring the issue of controls back up--I haven't heard a word when usually support is very consistent with getting back within a few days. We've heard over and over that it should be working, that an update could help, etc etc, but nothing has happened since we first brought it up when Miranda was made an admin and we realized there were problems.
Lancaster, I'd be happy to allow a Twilight fan thread if that is part of the problem. I've done it for bigger things before where the clashing is too great(HSM, for example). In fact, I'll put up a thread right away. In my attempts to prevent the massive flaming, it seems some have been put down and have decide to shy away instead and I don't want that. Having the connection would certainly encourage it more.
I'm certain the issues mainsite are contributing, which is part of my frustration since if we can't even get things done here on the forum when we've usually gotten a lot better attention due to our persistence, how can we promise changes on the mainsite? There used to be a time where we could give definitive answers about the site, where support participated and interacted with the members, but that seems to be gone. It makes me feel terrible to constantly try to handle these problems when its not even my site. Its simply difficult to communicate with someone who doesn't want to spend the time with the site anymore.
The other sites are definitely part of it. Support never wanted them to be advertised on here, but its impossible to keep them out. Its almost like TDP signed their own death wish by giving opportunities to these other groups. You have to wonder what will happen to them if TDP shuts down.
By the way, I'm really loving the feedback guys. Its definately something that needed to be brought up and I'm glad to see members being drawn out, like you SRK. I've never really seen you post before much so its nice to see you coming out as a member.
Av & Sig Credit: Me
Thank you.I've been watching TDP for about 3(or 2) weeks now and it's almost the same thing,but knowing that somebody is AT LEAST trying to fix it gives me(and I think everyone else) some confidence on being happy with the site.
Cool, I look forward to it.
I had no idea that there was a fear that the site would close down? That's AWFUL! Why should it close down, why can't it be handed off or something? I've changed my position: I'm for starting this backup Forum in the desperate hope to not sever ties with people if that awful day ever comes. Any help I can lend is yours.
I'm a faithful member to this site, but it's definately a good idea to have a backup.
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The Oxford Book of Latin American Poetry: A Bilingual Anthology. Edited (with introductory essays) by Cecilia Vicuña and Ernesto Livon-Grosman. Oxford University Press, 2009.
Ernesto Livon-Grosman
Associate Professor of Hispanic Studies
Director, Latin American Studies Program
Associate Professor of Hispanic Studies
Director, Latin American Studies Program
romance languages and literatures
Academic Degrees
Ph.D., M.A., New York University; B.A., Empire State College
Research Areas
Latin American film, poetics, and travel writing
Honors and Awards
Cartoneros (documentary), received the following awards and distinctions: "Best Educational Film," Tulipanes International Film Festival, Holland, Michigan, August 2007; "Best Green / Outdoors Film," Connecticut Film Festival, May 2007; and the "Enviromental Film Award," Tenth International Festival Cinema for Human Rights, Buenos Aires, Argentina, 2008.
The visual poem, Mensaje a la Humanidad (Roberto Cignoni: Message to Humanity) was a finalist in the Zebra Film Festival (category, "Focus Argentina"), Berlin, 2010, sponsored by the Goethe Institute.
Boston College Academic Technology Innovation Grant, 2008, 2009
José Lezama: The Oxford Lima Selections. Edited and with an Introduction by Ernesto Livon-Grosman. Berkeley: University of California Press, February, 2005.
Geografías imaginarias: el relato de viajes y la construcción del espacio patagónico. Buenos Aires: Beatriz Viterbo Editora. 2003; 2nd Ed. 2004.
The XUL Reader: An Anthology of Argentine Poetry 1980-1990. Editor and author of the introductory study. New York: Roof Books, 1997.
Charles Olson: Poemas (Translated by Ernesto Livon-Grosman and Jorge Santiago Perednik.) Buenos Aires: Tres Haches, 1997.
Film and Digital Media Productions
Interview with the experimental Argentine film director, Alberto Salomón. This interview is an integral part of The Salomón Project dedicated to the preservation of the work of Alberto Salomón's work as filmmaker. The project is part of Ernesto Livon-Grosman's research interest in preserving and making available the work of independent and amateur Latin American filmmakers.
Brascó, a documentary film (2103) presenting a history of political and cultural life in Argentina of the last fifty years through the eyes of one of the country's leading senior intellectuals, Miguel Brascó, poet, publisher and artist.
Several contributions (on poets Jorge Santiago Perednik, Charles Bernstein, Roberto Cignoni, Reina Maria Rodriguez, and Raul Zurita) to the visual poetry series sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania, "Pennsound:" Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing.
The "Radio Reading Project," a series of recordings and interviews in English and Spanish with poets from South and North America, co-produced at New York University by Ernesto Livon Grosman.
Cartoneros (2006): a documentary about the socio-economics of trash recycling in Buenos Aires, written, directed and co-produced by Ernesto Livon-Grosman.
The XUL digital website, conceived and curated by Ernesto Livon-Grosman, is a digitalized edition (enriched by a new critical apparatus) of the Argentinian intellectual journal, XUL: Signo Viejo e Nuevo, published in the 1980s as a forum for both literary and political expression during the years of dictatorship.
Recent Articles and Book Chapters
"Inside-Outside: Nicolasito Guillén Landrián´s Subversive Strategy in Coffea Arábi" in The Essay Film: Dialogue, Politics, Utopia, eds., Elizabeth Papazian and Caroline Eades, Columbia University Press, forthcoming.
"Nicolasito's Way: Los sinuosos caminos de la estética revolucionaria," in La Fuga (online journal, Chile), special issue (Spring 2013) devoted to the Cuban poet, painter, and experimental filmmaker, Nicolás Guillén Landrián.
"Memorias privadas, imágenes públicas. La primera persona en dos documentales argentinos recientes," Iberoamericana 8.29 (2008): 105-122 (special issue on the theme, "Entre-discursos: medios masivos, literatura y política en la cultura latinoamericana").
Recent Papers and Presentations
Two panel presentations with screenings of Brascó and Cartoneros at the Finger Lakes Environmental Film Festival (FLEEF), Ithaca College, April 4, 2014.
"Documentary Film," graduate seminar, University of Buenos Aires, Facultad de Medios y Comunicaciones, June 2013.
"All in the Family: Nicolasito's Other Way," John Hopkins University, Program in Latin American Studies, Baltimore, Maryland, April 4, 2013.
"Mapping the Americas," Dr. Milton Ellis Memorial Event, University of Maine, Orono, Maine, October 4, 2012.
"Videopoetics," presentation of exhibition co-curated by Ernesto Livon Grosman, McNally Jackson Bookstore, 52 Prince Street, New York, NY, May 4, 2012.
"Tribute to Jorge Santiago Perednik," McNally Jackson, 52 Prince Street, New York, NY, May 11, 2012.
"Looking Out to See In: Nicolasito Guillén Landrián's Other Strategy," Society for Film and Media Studies, Boston, March 23, 2012.
"Technicians of the Sacred," lecture at commemorative event, "Jerome Rothenberg @ 80," Martin E. Segal Theatre, City University of New York, New York, December 9, 2011.
"Looking Out to See In: Nicolasito Guillén Landrián's Other Strategy," Caribbean Philosophical Association, Rutgers Univeristy, New Brunswick, September 30, 2011.
"Recent Trends in Latin American Cinema," panel co-organizer and paper presenter. Latin American Studies Association (LASA) Twenty-ninth International Congress, Toronto, Canada, October 6, 2010.
"Mensaje a la Humanidad: Roberto Cignoni" (see above), screening and lecture. Annual Espresso Film Festival, Vienna, Austria, August 13, 2010.
"Revolution within the Revolution: The Aesthetic Challenges of Nicolasito Guillén Landrián's Films," Visible Evidence: Seventeenth Annual International Conference on Documentary Film and Media, Istanbul, Turkey. August 11, 2010.
"Cartoneros" screenings, with public lectures, of my documentary film (see above) at the following venues: Aston University, Birmingham, UK, April 28, 2009; California State University at San Marcos, April 9, 2009 (annual Spring Arts and Lecture Series); University of California at Irvine, April 11, 2009 ("Cultures of Democracy" series); the Teresa Lozano Long Institute of Latin American Studies (LLILAS), University of Texas, March 24, 2009; the Embassy of Argentina, Washington, DC, as part of the "DC Environmental Film Festival," March 13, 2009; Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, April 15, 2010. Program in Latin American Studies, Johns Hopkins University, April 4, 2013.
"Revolución y pop en en la obra de un documentalista cubano." Presented at the Onzième Colloque international du CRICCAL, 16-18 octobre 2008, Paris, on the theme, "Transamériques: Les échanges culturels continentaux."
Contact Information
Boston College
Department of Romance Languages and Literatures
Lyons Hall 304D
140 Commonwealth Avenue
Chestnut Hill, Mass. 02467-3804
Phone: 617-552-2680
E-mail: email@example.com
Current Courses
To view current courses taught, please access the Boston College Course Schedule and enter appropriate data.


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We are currently receiving large volumes of applications via email and your email may bounce back on you saying that it is undeliverable. IF this happens, it is likely due to a large file size. To prevent the email from bouncing back, please only send the following items:
- 3 Page application
- Student's birth certificate
- IEP/MET Cover Sheet (must include the student's primary eligibility determination or special education category, date of the meeting, and student demographics)


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'Irish Travelers' member implicated in scam of elderly woman
Published: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
The Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office has charged a North Augusta man believed to be part of the "Irish Travelers" in connection with the theft of more than $5,000 worth of jewelry from an elderly woman in Spartanburg in 2011.
Tommy Martin Riley, 56, of 78 Dupriest Circle, has been charged with second-degree burglary and grand larceny, according to arrest warrants.
Irish Travelers often scam people through home improvement schemes such as house painting, roofing or paving driveways, and move from town to town to avoid law enforcement.
Investigators say Riley and another man, Michael Phillip O'Hara, 24, of 24 Blanche Drive, North Augusta, went to the home of an 83-year-old woman's home in Spartanburg on Sept. 14, 2011, posing as a flooring salesmen.
Lt. Tony Ivey said in a written statement that the men "conned their way into the victim's home."
One of the men showed the woman flooring samples, while the other went into her bedroom and took between $5,000 and $10,000 worth of jewelry, Ivey said.
Investigators were soon able to identify these two individuals as suspects in this case, with both men known to law enforcement agencies across the eastern United States, Ivey said.
Investigators sent out information on Riley and O'Hara to precious metal purchasing companies across the country. On Jan. 19, authorities say Riley entered a business that buys gold in Lexington, Ky., in an attempt to sell gold.
The business was aware of Riley from the memo they had received from the Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office and was able to stall him long enough for local law enforcement to arrive and arrest him, Ivey said.
Riley is expected to arrive at the Spartanburg County Detention Facility sometime overnight, Ivey said.
O'Hara is also charged with second-degree burglary and grand larceny in the case, but has not been arrested. Anyone with information on O'Hara's whereabouts may call CrimeStoppers at 1-888-CRIMESC.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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Does anyone know a continuous group (not necessarily locally compact) with dense cyclic subgroup other than a torus?
You already have some examples in the other answers. Groups which have a dense cyclic subgroup are called Monothetic groups. In the article "On monothetic groups" by P.R. Halmos and H. Samelson, you can find many of their properties, such as
First, it is clear the group has to be abelian. Now, if you assume that $G$ is locally compact, then by the classification you can decompose $G$ as $G={\mathbb R}^n \times H$ where $H$ has a compact open subgroup. Clearly, there can be no ${\mathbb R}^n$ factor, so $G$ has a compact open subgroup. Now, suppose $G$ is itself compact and topologically generated by $g$. Then any character $\chi$ in the dual of $G$ vanishing on $g$ will be identically zero. So, the map $\chi \mapsto \chi (g)$ is injective, hence the dual is a subgroup of $U(1)$. Conversely, you can also see that if $\Gamma$ is a subgroup of $U(1)$ (considered with the discrete topology) then the dual of $\Gamma$ has a dense cyclic subgroup. By taking various subgroups you can, for instance, get the $p$-adic integers, or the n-torus.
How about the Bohr compactification of the infinite cyclic group?
How about the infinite cyclic group itself with the discrete topology? Or p-adic integers?


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Can china grass (agar-agar) be substituted in place of gelatin when making pudding? Or is there any other ingredient i could use as a substitute that could give me better results?
Agar is not a good choice for pudding because it makes a brittle gel and it won't melt in your mouth at body temperature. What you want for pudding is a starch based thickener. What we call pudding in the US at least is typically thickened with cornstarch. Modified starches like Ultra-Tex 3 can also work well. Are you thinking of something more along the lines of panna cotta, which does normally have gelatin in it? If so, you might try carageenan instead of agar. Here's a recipe that looks promising: http://irishherault.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/vegetarian-panna-cotta/
As a replacement for gelatine I would use Arrowroot or Tapioca, it is similarily clear, but it has a lower viscosity in my experience.
What do you mean by pudding? Custard? Then I would use cornflour or wheatstarch.
I agree to go with using agar agar for pudding but use it very little.. and pudding come so delicous..


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Graff G-9011-OB
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The hostages are young: a bus full of teenagers on a church mission. The ransom demands are explicit: deliver three million dollars - with zero involvement from law enforcement - or all captives will be executed. But rescue specialist Jonathan Grave doesn't believe in ultimatums. For him and his elite team at Security Solutions, it's all about protecting the innocent. Now Grave must face the chilling possibility that someone within the U.S. government has a deadly secret to protect - one that could jeopardize national security like never before.
©2012 John Gilstrap, Inc. (P)2012 Audible, Inc.
Husband, father, lifter, recovering alcoholic
"Jonathan Gave is awesome. Great series, great book"
It's ranked pretty high. As far as series go? I would rank it 3rd. First being Kack reacher and second being Jonathan Quinn.
The characters. The action. The passion. The malice. Idk. It was very action packed and entertaining. I like to listen to books I like again a few months later. This will definitely be getting a second listen.
Probably Boxers. He does his voice perfect. When he talks you can actually see his ominous size and strength. Love his sarcasm too.
Sure. But I never have that luxury.
I wish Basil Sands read the whole series. I won't even buy the other ones because I don't want them ruined by another narrator (who the reviews say is terrible). Ill just have to read them myself so they'll still have the same voices and personalities in my head.
"No real plot - mostly guns and violence"
We had listened to the previous three books and were looking forward to an interesting plot and character development/exploration in this book. Instead we were treated to long descriptions of guns and violent ambushes and fights. If you like that kind of stuff, this book is for you.
"Mexico to US -- or BUST"
This is the fourth in a series of thrillers. The main character Jonathan Grave is one of those super human ex-military types who can take on a battalion of soldiers and win. His assignment is to exchange money for a group of people from a US mega church. Sounds easy but it doesn't end up that way. After a gunfight with the kidnappers, Jonathan, his team, and his PC (precious cargo) head north, running into many obstacles along the way. If you enjoyed the other books in this series you won't be disappointed with this one. If you are new to the series you will still enjoy it as it requires no prior knowledge of the characters. Yes, I would recommend this book to mystery/thriller readers. It's not edge-of your seat suspense but it's a good listen.
"best in series so far"
Liked story not as predictable as others have been. Luv matador and his ability to tell the story.
Definitely one to listen to.
Could not stop listening. Great book. Very intense & action packed. One of his best yet.
"Worst Narrator EVER"
I enjoy the writer and the series. This is narrator is horrible.
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Interesting, though it looks to me like the segv in ticket 2352 would have happened on the send side instead of the receive side like you have. As to what to do next it would be really nice to have some sort of reproducer that we can try and debug what is really going on. The only other thing to do without a reproducer is to inspect the code on the send side to figure out what might make it generate at 0 hdr->tag. Or maybe instrument the send side to stop when it is about ready to send a 0 hdr->tag and see if we can see how the code got there.Terry, You were right, the error indeed seems to come from the message coalescing feature. If I turn it off using the "--mca btl_openib_use_message_coalescing 0", I'm not able to observe the "hdr->tag=0" error. There are some trac requests associated to very similar error (https://svn.open-mpi.org/trac/ompi/search?q=coalescing) but they are all closed (except https://svn.open-mpi.org/trac/ompi/ticket/2352 that might be related), aren't they ? What would you suggest Terry ?
Eloi On Friday 24 September 2010 16:00:26 Terry Dontje wrote:Eloi Gaudry wrote:Terry, No, I haven't tried any other values than P,65536,256,192,128 yet. The reason why is quite simple. I've been reading and reading again this thread to understand the btl_openib_receive_queues meaning and I can't figure out why the default values seem to induce the hdr-tag=0 issue (http://www.open-mpi.org/community/lists/users/2009/01/7808.php).Yeah, the size of the fragments and number of them really should not cause this issue. So I too am a little perplexed about it.Do you think that the default shared received queue parameters are erroneous for this specific Mellanox card ? Any help on finding the proper parameters would actually be much appreciated.I don't necessarily think it is the queue size for a specific card but more so the handling of the queues by the BTL when using certain sizes. At least that is one gut feel I have. In my mind the tag being 0 is either something below OMPI is polluting the data fragment or OMPI's internal protocol is some how getting messed up. I can imagine (no empirical data here) the queue sizes could change how the OMPI protocol sets things up. Another thing may be the coalescing feature in the openib BTL which tries to gang multiple messages into one packet when resources are running low. I can see where changing the queue sizes might affect the coalescing. So, it might be interesting to turn off the coalescing. You can do that by setting "--mca btl_openib_use_message_coalescing 0" in your mpirun line. If that doesn't solve the issue then obviously there must be something else going on :-). Note, the reason I am interested in this is I am seeing a similar error condition (hdr->tag == 0) on a development system. Though my failing case fails with np=8 using the connectivity test program which is mainly point to point and there are not a significant amount of data transfers going on either. --tdEloi On Friday 24 September 2010 14:27:07 you wrote:That is interesting. So does the number of processes affect your runs any. The times I've seen hdr->tag be 0 usually has been due to protocol issues. The tag should never be 0. Have you tried to do other receive_queue settings other than the default and the one you mention. I wonder if you did a combination of the two receive queues causes a failure or not. Something like P,128,256,192,128:P,65536,256,192,128 I am wondering if it is the first queuing definition causing the issue or possibly the SRQ defined in the default. --td Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi Terry, The messages being send/received can be of any size, but the error seems to happen more often with small messages (as an int being broadcasted or allreduced). The failing communication differs from one run to another, but some spots are more likely to be failing than another. And as far as I know, there are always located next to a small message (an int being broadcasted for instance) communication. Other typical messages size are10k but can be very much larger.I've been checking the hca being used, its' from mellanox (with vendor_part_id=26428). There is no receive_queues parameters associated to it. $ cat share/openmpi/mca-btl-openib-device-params.ini as well: [...] # A.k.a. ConnectX [Mellanox Hermon] vendor_id = 0x2c9,0x5ad,0x66a,0x8f1,0x1708,0x03ba,0x15b3 vendor_part_id = 25408,25418,25428,26418,26428,25448,26438,26448,26468,26478,26488 use_eager_rdma = 1 mtu = 2048 max_inline_data = 128 [..] $ ompi_info --param btl openib --parsable | grep receive_queues mca:btl:openib:param:btl_openib_receive_queues:value:P,128,256,192,128 :S ,2048,256,128,32:S,12288,256,128,32:S,65536,256,128,32 mca:btl:openib:param:btl_openib_receive_queues:data_source:default value mca:btl:openib:param:btl_openib_receive_queues:status:writable mca:btl:openib:param:btl_openib_receive_queues:help:Colon-delimited, comma delimited list of receive queues: P,4096,8,6,4:P,32768,8,6,4 mca:btl:openib:param:btl_openib_receive_queues:deprecated:no I was wondering if these parameters (automatically computed at openib btl init for what I understood) were not incorrect in some way and I plugged some others values: "P,65536,256,192,128" (someone on the list used that values when encountering a different issue) . Since that, I haven't been able to observe the segfault (occuring as hrd->tag = 0 in btl_openib_component.c:2881) yet. Eloi /home/pp_fr/st03230/EG/Softs/openmpi-custom-1.4.2/bin/ On Thursday 23 September 2010 23:33:48 Terry Dontje wrote:Eloi, I am curious about your problem. Can you tell me what size of job it is? Does it always fail on the same bcast, or same process? Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi Nysal, Thanks for your suggestions. I'm now able to get the checksum computed and redirected to stdout, thanks (I forgot the "-mca pml_base_verbose 5" option, you were right). I haven't been able to observe the segmentation fault (with hdr->tag=0) so far (when using pml csum) but I 'll let you know when I am. I've got two others question, which may be related to the error observed: 1/ does the maximum number of MPI_Comm that can be handled by OpenMPI somehow depends on the btl being used (i.e. if I'm using openib, may I use the same number of MPI_Comm object as with tcp) ? Is there something as MPI_COMM_MAX in OpenMPI ? 2/ the segfaults only appears during a mpi collective call, with very small message (one int is being broadcast, for instance) ; i followed the guidelines given at http://icl.cs.utk.edu/open- mpi/faq/?category=openfabrics#ib-small-message-rdma but the debug-build of OpenMPI asserts if I use a different min-size that 255. Anyway, if I deactivate eager_rdma, the segfaults remains. Does the openib btl handle very small message differently (even with eager_rdma deactivated) than tcp ?Others on the list does coalescing happen with non-eager_rdma? If so then that would possibly be one difference between the openib btl and tcp aside from the actual protocol used.is there a way to make sure that large messages and small messages are handled the same way ?Do you mean so they all look like eager messages? How large of messages are we talking about here 1K, 1M or 10M? --tdRegards, Eloi On Friday 17 September 2010 17:57:17 Nysal Jan wrote:Hi Eloi, Create a debug build of OpenMPI (--enable-debug) and while running with the csum PML add "-mca pml_base_verbose 5" to the command line. This will print the checksum details for each fragment sent over the wire. I'm guessing it didnt catch anything because the BTL failed. The checksum verification is done in the PML, which the BTL calls via a callback function. In your case the PML callback is never called because the hdr->tag is invalid. So enabling checksum tracing also might not be of much use. Is it the first Bcast that fails or the nth Bcast and what is the message size? I'm not sure what could be the problem at this moment. I'm afraid you will have to debug the BTL to find out more. --Nysal On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Eloi Gaudry <email@example.com> wrote:Hi Nysal, thanks for your response. I've been unable so far to write a test case that could illustrate the hdr->tag=0 error. Actually, I'm only observing this issue when running an internode computation involving infiniband hardware from Mellanox (MT25418, ConnectX IB DDR, PCIe 2.0 2.5GT/s, rev a0) with our time-domain software. I checked, double-checked, and rechecked again every MPI use performed during a parallel computation and I couldn't find any error so far. The fact that the very same parallel computation run flawlessly when using tcp (and disabling openib support) might seem to indicate that the issue is somewhere located inside the openib btl or at the hardware/driver level. I've just used the "-mca pml csum" option and I haven't seen any related messages (when hdr->tag=0 and the segfaults occurs). Any suggestion ? Regards, Eloi On Friday 17 September 2010 16:03:34 Nysal Jan wrote:Hi Eloi, Sorry for the delay in response. I haven't read the entire email thread, but do you have a test case which can reproduce this error? Without that it will be difficult to nail down the cause. Just to clarify, I do not work for an iwarp vendor. I can certainly try to reproduce it on an IB system. There is also a PML called csum, you can use it via "-mca pml csum", which will checksum the MPI messages and verify it at the receiver side for any data corruption. You can try using it to see if it is abletocatch anything. Regards --Nysal On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Eloi Gaudry <email@example.com> wrote:Hi Nysal, I'm sorry to intrrupt, but I was wondering if you had a chance to lookatthis error. Regards, Eloi -- Eloi Gaudry Free Field Technologies Company Website: http://www.fft.be Company Phone: +32 10 487 959 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Eloi Gaudry <firstname.lastname@example.com> To: Open MPI Users <firstname.lastname@example.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:27:43 +0200 Subject: Re: [OMPI users] [openib] segfault when using openib btl Hi, I was wondering if anybody got a chance to have a look at this issue. Regards, Eloi On Wednesday 18 August 2010 09:16:26 Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi Jeff, Please find enclosed the output (valgrind.out.gz) from /opt/openmpi-debug-1.4.2/bin/orterun -np 2 --host pbn11,pbn10 --mcabtlopenib,self --display-map --verbose --mca mpi_warn_on_fork 0 --mca btl_openib_want_fork_support 0 -tag-output /opt/valgrind-3.5.0/bin/valgrind --tool=memcheck --suppressions=/opt/openmpi-debug-1.4.2/share/openmpi/openmpi- valgrind.supp --suppressions=./suppressions.python.supp /opt/actran/bin/actranpy_mp ... Thanks, Eloi On Tuesday 17 August 2010 09:32:53 Eloi Gaudry wrote:On Monday 16 August 2010 19:14:47 Jeff Squyres wrote:On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Eloi Gaudry wrote:I did run our application through valgrind but it couldn't find any "Invalid write": there is a bunch of "Invalid read" (I'm using1.4.2with the suppression file), "Use of uninitialized bytes" and "Conditional jump depending on uninitialized bytes" indifferentompiroutines. Some of them are located in btl_openib_component.c. I'll send you an output of valgrind shortly.A lot of them in btl_openib_* are to be expected -- OpenFabrics uses OS-bypass methods for some of its memory, and therefore valgrind is unaware of them (and therefore incorrectly marks them as uninitialized).would it help if i use the upcoming 1.5 version of openmpi ? ireadthata huge effort has been done to clean-up the valgrind output ? but maybe that this doesn't concern this btl (for the reasons you mentionned).Another question, you said that the callback function pointershouldnever be 0. But can the tag be null (hdr->tag) ?The tag is not a pointer -- it's just an integer.I was worrying that its value could not be null. I'll send a valgrind output soon (i need to build libpython without pymalloc first). Thanks, EloiThanks for your help, Eloi On 16/08/2010 18:22, Jeff Squyres wrote:Sorry for the delay in replying. Odd; the values of the callback function pointer should neverbe0.This seems to suggest some kind of memory corruption is occurring. I don't know if it's possible, because the stack trace looks like you're calling through python, but can you run this application through valgrind, or some other memory-checking debugger? On Aug 10, 2010, at 7:15 AM, Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi, sorry, i just forgot to add the values of the functionparameters:(gdb) print reg->cbdata $1 = (void *) 0x0 (gdb) print openib_btl->super $2 = {btl_component = 0x2b341edd7380, btl_eager_limit =12288,btl_rndv_eager_limit = 12288, btl_max_send_size = 65536, btl_rdma_pipeline_send_length = 1048576, btl_rdma_pipeline_frag_size = 1048576,btl_min_rdma_pipeline_size= 1060864, btl_exclusivity = 1024, btl_latency = 10, btl_bandwidth = 800, btl_flags = 310, btl_add_procs = 0x2b341eb8ee47<mca_btl_openib_add_procs>, btl_del_procs = 0x2b341eb90156<mca_btl_openib_del_procs>, btl_register = 0, btl_finalize = 0x2b341eb93186<mca_btl_openib_finalize>,btl_alloc= 0x2b341eb90a3e<mca_btl_openib_alloc>, btl_free = 0x2b341eb91400<mca_btl_openib_free>, btl_prepare_src = 0x2b341eb91813<mca_btl_openib_prepare_src>, btl_prepare_dst=0x2b341eb91f2e<mca_btl_openib_prepare_dst>, btl_send = 0x2b341eb94517<mca_btl_openib_send>, btl_sendi = 0x2b341eb9340d<mca_btl_openib_sendi>, btl_put = 0x2b341eb94660<mca_btl_openib_put>, btl_get = 0x2b341eb94c4e<mca_btl_openib_get>, btl_dump = 0x2b341acd45cb<mca_btl_base_dump>, btl_mpool = 0xf3f4110, btl_register_error = 0x2b341eb90565<mca_btl_openib_register_error_cb>, btl_ft_event=0x2b341eb952e7<mca_btl_openib_ft_event>} (gdb) print hdr->tag $3 = 0 '\0' (gdb) print des $4 = (mca_btl_base_descriptor_t *) 0xf4a6700 (gdb) print reg->cbfunc $5 = (mca_btl_base_module_recv_cb_fn_t) 0 Eloi On Tuesday 10 August 2010 16:04:08 Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi, Here is the output of a core file generated during asegmentationfault observed during a collective call (using openib): #0 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () (gdb) where #0 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () #1 0x00002aedbc4e05f4 in btl_openib_handle_incoming (openib_btl=0x1902f9b0, ep=0x1908a1c0, frag=0x190d9700, byte_len=18) at btl_openib_component.c:2881 #2 0x00002aedbc4e25e2 in handle_wc (device=0x19024ac0, cq=0, wc=0x7ffff279ce90) at btl_openib_component.c:3178 #3 0x00002aedbc4e2e9d inpoll_device(device=0x19024ac0, count=2) at btl_openib_component.c:3318#40x00002aedbc4e34b8 in progress_one_device(device=0x19024ac0)at btl_openib_component.c:3426 #5 0x00002aedbc4e3561 in btl_openib_component_progress () at btl_openib_component.c:3451#60x00002aedb8b22ab8 in opal_progress () at runtime/opal_progress.c:207 #7 0x00002aedb859f497 in opal_condition_wait (c=0x2aedb888ccc0, m=0x2aedb888cd20) at ../opal/threads/condition.h:99 #8 0x00002aedb859fa31 in ompi_request_default_wait_all(count=2,requests=0x7ffff279d0e0, statuses=0x0) at request/req_wait.c:262 #9 0x00002aedbd7559ad in ompi_coll_tuned_allreduce_intra_recursivedoubling (sbuf=0x7ffff279d444, rbuf=0x7ffff279d440, count=1, dtype=0x6788220, op=0x6787a20, comm=0x19d81ff0, module=0x19d82b20) atcoll_tuned_allreduce.c:223#10 0x00002aedbd7514f7 in ompi_coll_tuned_allreduce_intra_dec_fixed (sbuf=0x7ffff279d444, rbuf=0x7ffff279d440, count=1, dtype=0x6788220, op=0x6787a20, comm=0x19d81ff0, module=0x19d82b20) at coll_tuned_decision_fixed.c:63 #11 0x00002aedb85c7792 in PMPI_Allreduce(sendbuf=0x7ffff279d444,recvbuf=0x7ffff279d440, count=1, datatype=0x6788220,op=0x6787a20,comm=0x19d81ff0) at pallreduce.c:102 #12 0x0000000004387dbfinFEMTown::MPI::Allreduce (sendbuf=0x7ffff279d444, recvbuf=0x7ffff279d440, count=1, datatype=0x6788220,op=0x6787a20,comm=0x19d81ff0) at stubs.cpp:626 #13 0x0000000004058be8 in FEMTown::Domain::align (itf={<FEMTown::Boost::shared_base_ptr<FEMTown::Domain::Inter fa ce>> = {_vptr.shared_base_ptr = 0x7ffff279d620, ptr_ = {px = 0x199942a4, pn = {pi_ = 0x6}}},<No data fields>}) at interface.cpp:371 #14 0x00000000040cb858 in FEMTown::Field::detail::align_itfs_and_neighbhors (dim=2,set={px= 0x7ffff279d780, pn = {pi_ = 0x2f279d640}}, check_info=@0x7ffff279d7f0) at check.cpp:63 #150x00000000040cbfa8in FEMTown::Field::align_elements (set={px = 0x7ffff279d950, pn={pi_ = 0x66e08d0}}, check_info=@0x7ffff279d7f0) at check.cpp:159 #16 0x00000000039acdd4 in PyField_align_elements (self=0x0, args=0x2aaab0765050, kwds=0x19d2e950) at check.cpp:31 #17 0x0000000001fbf76d in FEMTown::Main::ExErrCatch<_object* (*)(_object*, _object*, _object*)>::exec<_object> (this=0x7ffff279dc20, s=0x0, po1=0x2aaab0765050, po2=0x19d2e950) at /home/qa/svntop/femtown/modules/main/py/exception.hpp:463#180x00000000039acc82 in PyField_align_elements_ewrap(self=0x0,args=0x2aaab0765050, kwds=0x19d2e950) at check.cpp:39 #19 0x00000000044093a0 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x19b52e90, throwflag=<value optimized out>) at Python/ceval.c:3921 #20 0x000000000440aae9 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x2aaab754ad50, globals=<value optimized out>, locals=<value optimized out>, args=0x3, argcount=1, kws=0x19ace4a0, kwcount=2, defs=0x2aaab75e4800, defcount=2, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2968 #21 0x0000000004408f58 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x19ace2d0, throwflag=<value optimized out>) at Python/ceval.c:3802 #22 0x000000000440aae9 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x2aaab7550120, globals=<value optimized out>, locals=<value optimized out>, args=0x7, argcount=1, kws=0x19acc418, kwcount=3, defs=0x2aaab759e958, defcount=6, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2968 #23 0x0000000004408f58 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x19acc1c0, throwflag=<value optimized out>) at Python/ceval.c:3802 #24 0x000000000440aae9 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x2aaab8b5e738, globals=<value optimized out>, locals=<value optimized out>, args=0x6, argcount=1, kws=0x19abd328, kwcount=5, defs=0x2aaab891b7e8, defcount=3, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2968 #25 0x0000000004408f58 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x19abcea0, throwflag=<value optimized out>) at Python/ceval.c:3802 #26 0x000000000440aae9 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x2aaab3eb4198, globals=<value optimized out>, locals=<value optimized out>, args=0xb, argcount=1, kws=0x19a89df0, kwcount=10, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2968 #27 0x0000000004408f58 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x19a89c40, throwflag=<value optimized out>) at Python/ceval.c:3802 #28 0x000000000440aae9 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x2aaab3eb4288, globals=<value optimized out>, locals=<value optimized out>, args=0x1, argcount=0, kws=0x19a89330, kwcount=0, defs=0x2aaab8b66668, defcount=1, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2968 #29 0x0000000004408f58 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x19a891b0, throwflag=<value optimized out>) at Python/ceval.c:3802 #30 0x000000000440aae9 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x2aaab8b6a738, globals=<value optimized out>, locals=<value optimized out>, args=0x0, argcount=0, kws=0x0, kwcount=0, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2968 #31 0x000000000440ac02 in PyEval_EvalCode (co=0x1902f9b0, globals=0x0, locals=0x190d9700) at Python/ceval.c:522 #32 0x000000000442853c in PyRun_StringFlags (str=0x192fd3d8 "DIRECT.Actran.main()", start=<value optimized out>, globals=0x192213d0, locals=0x192213d0, flags=0x0) at Python/pythonrun.c:1335 #33 0x0000000004429690 in PyRun_SimpleStringFlags (command=0x192fd3d8 "DIRECT.Actran.main()", flags=0x0) at Python/pythonrun.c:957 #34 0x0000000001fa1cf9 in FEMTown::Python::FEMPy::run_application(this=0x7ffff279f650)at fempy.cpp:873 #35 0x000000000434ce99 inFEMTown::Main::Batch::run(this=0x7ffff279f650) at batch.cpp:374 #360x0000000001f9aa25in main (argc=8, argv=0x7ffff279fa48) at main.cpp:10 (gdb) f 1 #1 0x00002aedbc4e05f4 in btl_openib_handle_incoming (openib_btl=0x1902f9b0, ep=0x1908a1c0, frag=0x190d9700, byte_len=18) at btl_openib_component.c:2881 2881 reg->cbfunc( &openib_btl->super, hdr->tag, des, reg->cbdata);Current language: auto; currently c (gdb) #1 0x00002aedbc4e05f4 in btl_openib_handle_incoming (openib_btl=0x1902f9b0, ep=0x1908a1c0, frag=0x190d9700, byte_len=18) at btl_openib_component.c:2881 2881 reg->cbfunc( &openib_btl->super, hdr->tag, des, reg->cbdata);(gdb) l 2876 2877 if(OPAL_LIKELY(!(is_credit_msg = is_credit_message(frag)))) { 2878 /* call registered callback */ 2879 mca_btl_active_message_callback_t* reg; 2880 reg = mca_btl_base_active_message_trigger + hdr->tag; 2881 reg->cbfunc(&openib_btl->super, hdr->tag, des, reg->cbdata ); 2882 if(MCA_BTL_OPENIB_RDMA_FRAG(frag)) { 2883 cqp=(hdr->credits>> 11)& 0x0f; 2884 hdr->credits&= 0x87ff; 2885 } else { Regards, Eloi On Friday 16 July 2010 16:01:02 Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi Edgar, The only difference I could observed was that the segmentation fault appeared sometimes later during the parallel computation. I'm running out of idea here. I wish I could use the "--mcacolltuned" with "--mca self,sm,tcp" so that I could check that the issue is not somehow limited to the tuned collective routines. Thanks, Eloi On Thursday 15 July 2010 17:24:24 Edgar Gabriel wrote:On 7/15/2010 10:18 AM, Eloi Gaudry wrote:hi edgar, thanks for the tips, I'm gonna try this option as well.thesegmentation fault i'm observing always happened during a collective communication indeed... does it basicallyswitchallcollective communication to basic mode, right ? sorry for my ignorance, but what's a NCA ?sorry, I meant to type HCA (InifinBand networking card) Thanks Edgarthanks, éloi On Thursday 15 July 2010 16:20:54 Edgar Gabriel wrote:you could try first to use the algorithms in the basicmodule,e.g. mpirun -np x --mca coll basic ./mytest and see whether this makes a difference. I used toobservesometimes a (similar ?) problem in the openib btl triggered from the tuned collective component, in cases where the ofed libraries were installed but no NCA was found on a node. It used to work however with the basic component. Thanks Edgar On 7/15/2010 3:08 AM, Eloi Gaudry wrote:hi Rolf, unfortunately, i couldn't get rid of that annoying segmentation fault when selecting another bcast algorithm. i'm now going to replace MPI_Bcast with a naive implementation (using MPI_Send and MPI_Recv) and see ifthathelps. regards, éloi On Wednesday 14 July 2010 10:59:53 Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi Rolf, thanks for your input. You're right, I miss the coll_tuned_use_dynamic_rules option. I'll check if I the segmentation fault disappears whenusingthe basic bcast linear algorithm using the proper command line you provided. Regards, Eloi On Tuesday 13 July 2010 20:39:59 Rolf vandeVaartwrote:Hi Eloi: To select the different bcast algorithms, you need to add an extra mca parameter that tells the library to use dynamic selection. --mca coll_tuned_use_dynamic_rules 1 One way to make sure you are typing this in correctly istouse it with ompi_info. Do the following: ompi_info -mca coll_tuned_use_dynamic_rules 1 --paramcollYou should see lots of output with all the different algorithms that can be selected for the various collectives. Therefore, you need this: --mca coll_tuned_use_dynamic_rules 1 --mca coll_tuned_bcast_algorithm 1 Rolf On 07/13/10 11:28, Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi, I've found that "--mca coll_tuned_bcast_algorithm 1" allowed to switch to the basic linear algorithm. Anyway whatever the algorithm used, the segmentation fault remains. Does anyone could give some advice on ways todiagnosetheissue I'm facing ? Regards, Eloi On Monday 12 July 2010 10:53:58 Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi, I'm focusing on the MPI_Bcast routine that seems to randomly segfault when using the openib btl. I'dliketoknow if there is any way to make OpenMPI switch toadifferent algorithm than the default one being selected for MPI_Bcast. Thanks for your help, Eloi On Friday 02 July 2010 11:06:52 Eloi Gaudry wrote:Hi, I'm observing a random segmentation fault duringaninternode parallel computation involving theopenibbtland OpenMPI-1.4.2 (the same issue can be observed with OpenMPI-1.3.3). mpirun (Open MPI) 1.4.2 Report bugs to http://www.open-mpi.org/community/help/ [pbn08:02624] *** Process received signal *** [pbn08:02624] Signal: Segmentation fault (11) [pbn08:02624] Signal code: Address not mapped(1)[pbn08:02624] Failing at address: (nil) [pbn08:02624] [ 0] /lib64/libpthread.so.0 [0x349540e4c0] [pbn08:02624] *** End of errormessage*** sh: line 1: 2624 Segmentation fault\/share\/hpc3\/actran_suite\/Actran_11\.0\.rc2\.41872\/Red Ha tE L\ -5 \/ x 86 _6 4\ /bin\/actranpy_mp'--apl=/share/hpc3/actran_suite/Actran_11.0.rc2.41872/RedH at EL -5 /x 86 _ 64 /A c tran_11.0.rc2.41872''--inputfile=/work/st25652/LSF_130073_0_47696_0/Case1_3Dre al _m 4_ n2 .d a t''--scratch=/scratch/st25652/LSF_130073_0_47696_0/scratch' '--mem=3200' '--threads=1' '--errorlevel=FATAL' '--t_max=0.1' '--parallel=domain' If I choose not to use the openib btl (by using --mca btl self,sm,tcp on the command line, for instance), I don't encounter any problem and the parallel computation runs flawlessly. I would like to get some help to be able: - to diagnose the issue I'm facing with the openib btl - understand why this issue is observed only whenusingthe openib btl and not when using self,sm,tcp Any help would be very much appreciated. The outputs of ompi_info and the configure scripts of OpenMPI are enclosed to this email, and someinformationon the infiniband drivers as well. Here is the command line used when launching aparallelcomputation using infiniband: path_to_openmpi/bin/mpirun -np $NPROCESS --hostfile host.list --mca btl openib,sm,self,tcp --display-map --verbose --version --mca mpi_warn_on_fork 0 --mca btl_openib_want_fork_support 0 [...] and the command line used if not using infiniband: path_to_openmpi/bin/mpirun -np $NPROCESS --hostfile host.list --mca btl self,sm,tcp --display-map --verbose --version--mcampi_warn_on_fork 0 --mca btl_openib_want_fork_support0[...] Thanks, Eloi______________________________________________________________________________________________ users mailing list email@example.com http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users


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What is CSE?
Sustainability is a Defining CharacteristicThe Center for Sustainability Education (CSE) creates, enhances and connects opportunities for learning about sustainability in and out of the classroom. Working with a variety of partners, CSE supports activities that use the campus as a living laboratory for sustainability, helps faculty members incorporate sustainability in their teaching and research, funds student-faculty research, organizes speakers and events, serves as an information hub for all facets of Dickinson's sustainability efforts, and employs student interns to lead and assist with these and other efforts.
Our partners include academic departments, student organizations, offices of Facilities Management, Student Development, Residence Life, LGBTQ Services, Student Leadership & Campus Engagement, the Dickinson College Organic Farm, the Alliance for Aquatic Resource Monitoring (ALLARM), the Center for Global Study and Engagement, the Community Studies Center, the Clarke Forum for Contemporary Issues, and other groups.
Examples of CSE activities include:
- Serving as an information hub for all facets of Dickinson's sustainability efforts;
- Employing student interns to work on sustainability projects
- Coordinating Eco-Reps, a peer-to-peer education program for sustainable living;
- Operating the Handlebar, Dickinson's on campus bicycle co-op
- Managing the Biodiesel Shop to produce a renewable fuel from waste vegetable oil;
- Helping faculty incorporate sustainability in courses with grants and advice;
- Supporting student-faculty research projects;
- Offering faculty workshops on sustainability, climate change, & place-based education;
- Working to promote learning about sustainability in a global context;
- Teaching sustainability courses;
- Coordinating Dickinson's Climate Action Plan;
- Inventorying Dickinson's greenhouse gas emissions;
- Taking Dickinson students & faculty to UN climate change conference;
- Organizing conferences, speakers, and other events.