text:
Wow I wish I could play with that. Amazing!
Are some of these things possible to make in a skin? I would download that!
Wow I wish I could play with that. Amazing!
Are some of these things possible to make in a skin? I would download that!
The mock ups look great but TBH I just don't think it is in the CM/FM tradition. It's all a bit too fancy and a bit in your face. I like the way FM is understated yet brilliant and I like the fact that it doesn't seem to rely on gimmicks like well taken pictures etc.
I've played Fifa and I absolutely hated it and honestly beleive even if it had the same match engine as FM i'd hate it becuase it all just seems a bit too fluffy and comic booky.
Your ideas look well but I think i'd prefer them as a downloadable skin option rather than an addition.
DUDE! Those mock ups are amazing!
THAT IS EXACTLY the kind of thing we need in FM. Someone at SI please use the person that did these mocks a job as a consultant!
Pretty much love all the suggestions, I'm not for the faces on the tactic screen or on the match engine view but I love the sky sports style score popping up.
Very, very good work indeed.
Has anyone noticed that FIFA is a boring arcade game at best.
Yes those changes would be great.
SI have a graphics man, making it look better with these changes will not distrupt any coding at all.I think everyone on this board would much rather that the in-game issues are resolved before any cosmetic changes are implemented.
awesome mate!
just hope that guys from SI will implement your suggestion while making next FM.
great job!
All the work you've done is brilliant. Info is alot quicker to access and the screen is much more livelier. Class work and I really hope we see these in the next game. 10/10Originally posted by StanPetrov:
Personally i feel FM to have just about every feature you could possibly want in a football management sim. However, i find there is still something lacking.
I beleive FM would greatly benefit from a design overhaul - less text, more graphics.
Attribute Alternative Colour
Match Flow
Before i start on the following topic i must insist on telling you that i really dislike Fifa Manager 08.
However the difference, i feel, between FM and Fifa Manager is:
DATABASE: Football Manager > Fifa Manager (90%-10%)
GRAPHICS: Fifa Manager > Football Manager (65%-35%)
Include his ideas in FM 09!
It will be amazing
You just keep 'em' coming! I'm absolutely loving this - TER!!!
We have a graphics "team"SI have a graphics man, making it look better with these changes will not distrupt any coding at all
Definitely the best 'new' idea I have seen.
Awesome ideas, Stan!
I agree will all of them except the Tactics screen as the pictures on the pitch look too cluttered but the right-click menu is a really good idea.
Is it only me or do you guys think that the Overview screen during a match should shows more than just the Goals, penalty misses and red cards. For example, it might show the yellow cards received by each team too. Also, under the Team Name maybe it should show the name of the manager and the captain. If I could find my FM cd then I would take a screenie and then edit it and show you guys what I mean.
Good job again. Hope SI include it in FM09. I don't see why not as their graphics and art team works on the skin, while the programmers work on the data and other stuff. So they both shouldn't get in each other's way.
Something occured to me after my first comment: I don't like Fifa manager because it is too 'in your face'. I still think these are good ideas but there has to be a limit or people may become 'scared' of the way it's presented.
mate you are god
Great ideas Stan
Great work StanPetrov.
I got really excited seeing your screen shots and thinking about them being in a future FM08. I love FM and despite trying to play other Footy management games i cant. However i do think FIFA has some great graphics that SI could do well to consider. And then we have Ter giving some positive feedback. I know this is all hypothetical stuff but pleasing none the less.
OMFG I'm a Fan boy again Shoot me quick
Great work mate!
If FM did that they would make alot of money and then could beat Fifa Manager in all departments
I agree that the UI can have more graphics. Even though it improves with each iteration the game is still a bit too text heavy.
I particularly like the idea of using the cross icon to indicate an injury; it's a really subtle thing, but it would improve things no end.
I think in the mockups there's too much emphasis on player pictures though. I just don't like player pictures since a incident where I decided not to sign a world-class midfielder because I thought he was really ugly.
Again, please remember these are only mock-ups. I too agree that i've used the player pictures a little too much - I don't particularly like the way i had done the match flow screen either.Originally posted by DarthInsinuate:
I think in the mockups there's too much emphasis on player pictures though.
I'm just trying to emphasise the need for a little more differentiation between stats - some need to stand out more than others.
As i had said in a previous post, there are many other screens i would have liked to put forward suggestions for too but i simply don't have the time to do the mock-ups.
One of my main goals was to create both build-up and match screens for European Cup games. I was hoping to achieve a greater sense of excitement/nervousness for these games as opposed to our weekly league games.
Hopefully SI can come up with something!
Hey StanPetrov, how about doing some new skins? You obviously have some mad design skills!!
Recruit Stan to the skinning staff?
We've had a position open in that department for a while nowOriginally posted by wan109:
Recruit Stan to the skinning staff?
You see that Stan! Take it, they obviously want you! And itll make us all love you
im using fm 2007, so i dont know if my gripe has been rectified in fm 2008;
a lot of the time, when i go for players, clubs are usually open to negotiation regarding price etc.
however, when it turns the other way around (clubs buying my players), i cant go over 1 million of the players value, even with clubs with chelsea who i know would have no problem in paying the excess,
i find this infuriating, especially with my milan team. im halfway through a clearout of all the unecessary players and i want to gain a profit, instead of having to pay x amount of euros in severance fees etc.
has anyone else had this problem or am i just barking up the wrong tree?
th ebest idead i have read for this game mate i hope it happens.plus i want the option of buying a club.
Best suggestion thread I've seen, ever.
Applause for Stan!
I'm delighted that Ter's been reading this thread and I'm hoping some (best if all) of the suggestions make it into FM09.
Quite simply, those mockups are the BEST looking FM I've seen, in any series. Let's hope the graphics "team" Ter referred to see this thread.
Didn't see this first time round but i'd like to add my support to the OP - Those screenshots are exactly what FM needs to move forward.
I hope they never do this, I have played FIFA manager and it gave me a headache, too much things going on, too many graphics.
Football Manager is near perfection. Theres always something you can add though and having so many mods and such is great.
Think tatics would be better, eg. more things to tell you players but FM is in depth yet easy to understand.
They are completely different entities, with different teams of people working on each. There is no issue with improving graphics at the expense of tactics - both should be/will be developed, as they are for every edition.Originally posted by Ryknow:
I hope they never do this, ...
Think tatics would be better, eg. more things to tell you players but FM is in depth yet easy to understand.
I reiterate what I said early on and has been endorsed by many since; stanpetrov's suggestions are absolutely brilliant - like others, I do hope Ter's positive comments result in something substantial for FM09
My post was directed at the very first one, I havnt read all posts.
I just dont want FM turning into FIFA manager cause it is terrible.
I concur with most of the posters; these additions are imaginative and would be an excellent idea to base changes around.
Well things change, we all love FM as can be seen by Stan's very dynamic suggestions, therefore we should be looking at the suggestions from a positive view point and get away from this no do not change it will slow down FM/fluff FM/stop other development in FM..blah blah.
As long as the gameplay does not lose it's dynamic interplay re match day, then h*ll why not some bright graphics that actually add rather than detract.
I think and believe that SI would never sacrifice the gameplay for just "pretty additional graphics", so that being the case we should encourage them to work around Stan's ideas.
If it's not possible at the moment then so be it but lets not throw the idea away.
That's my 10 penneth worth and by the way a good thread.
Yeah but couldnt someone just make a skin after 2009 gets released
Thanks for a really good post.
Personally, I wouldn't want things layed out in a 'bolder' way. I don't need a big number and bright colours to tell me how long a player will be out. Bit FIFA-ish and the kind of thing FM has always been good by avoiding. Just an opinion.
Is there any plan for this stuff to be taken into account in FM10 or FM11. This is one of the big down points in Football Manager and has been for a while.
God I hope so. I had forgotten just how much I loved these ideas. Especillay the attributes screen, that idea of average attribute at the top of each section is genius and would make selection and purchase of players much easier.
Hire this guy!
Yes, hire him
The average attributes is a great idea IMO.
Some great screen intefaces and it really does look impressive.
Minimalism is best in my opinion. Fifa's graphics are too loud. Some of your ideas are not bad though. Good thought provoking stuff though.
nice graphs
Yeh - these look great, just a bit more graphical content in FM would make an outstanding game - even more immersive and brilliant.
I like the information scored after a goal on the match screen. think that would be great.
Good idea about the right click on the tactics screen, would make it so easier selecting corner, free kick takers.
Fantastic to see users actually coming up with real solid ideas on how to improve things rather than a couple of lines of "try harder!"
Excellent post, people take note! Threads such as these that attempt to solve problems rather than just pointing them out are very useful to us, as Ter's presence shows.
I agree, the graphics have room for improvement. The mock-ups may just be bolding some things for some of the selected screens, yet they make it way easier to see the most important things at once.
I don't like the attribute averages given as they don't recognise which ones are important to a player's position and which ones are related to CA at all, but that's just details. Great work
I too think FM needs a bit of a jazz up. It's been basically the same layout now since 05, something like this not only looks good but is also helpful and, IMO, would bring a fresh feel to the game.
I know SI start on FM10 early so hopefully this isn't too late to be looked at and included in someway.
I thought I'd seen this thread before, looked at the date, nearly a year old.
I had my own idea not long ago, to split mental attributes into two categories, the more 'fooball' attributes and the 'gritty' ones like bravery and determination.
For what it's worth, I bumped this thread to get it noticed, like it has done, and to give people that hadn't yet seen it have a look and build their own opinion.
These are simply amazing ideas.
I would love to see these implemented into future vesions of game.
Also it would be great if someone could implement this into a skin .(michaelmurrayuk)
i'm no expert and i'm not saying I could do it but surely this could be done quite easily? I mean it's excellent, much better than the current layout. Only thing is the size, would the space taken up by attributes would have to be reduced to fit everything else on the player screens?
I'd be very upset if this isn't added to the game in the next few years. Brilliant ideas, even the minority of people who dont like the idea could be happy if it was an option to choose at start up of a career save (when you choose your database size etc)
I think from a business point of view this would be a great addition to the game in terms of attracting new customers to buy the game, many people who i speak to who havent purchased a FM game have been put off by the "spreadsheet" look. This idea would change that general opinion of the spreadheet but not affect the indepth knowlegde which makes the game the best Football Manager game in the world
To the people who say this could be added as a skin - i agree it could but it would be hard to make the best use of this fantastic idea due to the different sizes of text etc (the totally different look to the game). I'm not an expert but i think it may be very hard to implement to its full potential as a skin.
Greak work! an excellent idea! fingers crossed for this to be added in future versions of FM
Even if this isn't introduced into the game in the next few years, could someone make a skin with all of these ideas in as then the people who want these ideas/layouts in their game can have it and the people who don't want it can choose a different skin.
Great work mate, keep it up
great. simple as.
The Game looks so much more clinical
Great work
personally i really like it.
What ive always wondered is why the game has the position so.... dead set on the tactic screen if you know what i mean. Its a bad example, but for examply, on pro evo you can set the positions anywhere you like, id like something a bit more like thatand i feel they need to add the position second striker, as its a very different role to CF or AMC. Just add new tactical ideas into the game.
And in rehards to the averages, i think it would also be good to have an "overall" average score if you are going to do individual ones, unfortunately that is bordering far too close on fifa, of which i am not a fan.
I remember seeing these ideas first time round and being really impressed, seems StanPetrov hasn't been on the forums since last November which is a shame. But i think more graphical representation is the way forward.
coool stuff. irresistible.
Waow you blew me away mate. Looking at those pics you put up I think they should hire you up stright away!!!
I always felt FM was a little unfinished in the graphical sense, and its presentation however definately best game in the world. I know there are
always skins but some of the stuff you put up are really simple yet mind boggling and seoriusly looks the goods. Thanks for sharing and
I hope FM10 looks exactly or even better then you make it out to be!!
Once again good on ya champ!
Excellent idea. Would be really cool to see FM with this.
If put some photo here and there and changing players color attributes are solving problems, this makes me think about how you're working. You made a patch that made problems with regen faces, if you couldn't prevent this, completely revamp graphics is a dream, honestly. Think focusing on core-game stuff, and just give tools to skinners, that are making gorgeous works, instead.
^ ^Whs ^ ^ The OP had some fantastic ideas and had the knowledge (skinning or whatever) to implement them, or at least to saw us images of them. If pointing out a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place is not useful, then we're left with two options: praise the game as it is or learn programming and solving those problems ourselves.
really decent suggestions. all would say the distinct difference between these rival (?) games are database/reality vs graphics/finishing... when FM gains acceleration on the latter one it will get closer to being flawless.
with huge amount of precise data and processing it, bugs and twitches are acceptable. i find SI's rate of solving problems really reasonable. and i can understand their effort in making the game itself work more accurately, with minimum amount of bugs in the core, rather than spend time on the finishing. perhaps these two are different branches which require improvements from different teams of people. still, i need a "perfect running game" before i have a "perfect looking game"...
i really have the feeling things keep on improving and the introduction of 3d match engine really winks onto graphical improvements are around the corner.
the one thing i love about CM/FM series is that, it is almost fully customizable, the graphics, the data etc. there are many decent, hardworking, versatile graphic authors who are fans of the game themselves. it is not difficult to make your game look close-to-perfect with a small effort. go around, look for it, sure you will find it.
hope stan's ideas come up to be real and concrete sometime soon though. by him or by someone else who gets inspired by his mock-ups
keep up the good work stan..
not this
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2...tchflowlj8.jpg <--- which problem does this solve?
I'm not blaming the OP, it's a quality works without any doubt, I'm blaming the meaning you give to it. It's not solving problem ---> improve gameplay, but
make it cool---> just bling bling at eyes.
It's not "Graphics Speak Louder Than Words" because
this is honestly true. A simple silly png that makes something potentially great to awful.
Da Funk, I agree with you 100% on this. I just don't accept that pointing out a problem is not useful to the progress of the game, as scorp said. As I told before, not all of us are programmers or have some kind of knowledge to be in a possition to solve problems (that shouldn't be there, what so ever). So, we're "limitted" to just point them out and maybe a few times propose possible solutions
If Ter has read this thread since it's been bumped can you say anything with reagards to this?
I think it's clear this is something alot ( of forum ) users want which I guess the wider customer base would also want.
At no point did I say that pointing out problems was not useful, perhaps you should re-read my post:
"Excellent post, people take note! Threads such as these that attempt to solve problems rather than just pointing them out are very useful to us, as Ter's presence shows."
This does not say that pointing out problems are not useful to us, it says that attempting to solve them or provide a solution is "very useful" as it fleshes out the problem and brings about a concept that can be used as a basis for discussion and thought on the aspect in question.
This goes for all suggestions for improvements. Pointing something out is useful, but suggesting a genuine way in which improvements could be handled is even more useful.
I was in no way criticising posts that point things out, I was praising this one. Can't praise a poster on these boards without it being totally misread!
Well, I guess I missuderstood your post, ok, I can understand that giving a possible solution to a problem is more useful than just mentioning it, and obvioulsly the OP had some great ideas for the improvement of the UI, so any praise is justified
So basically you've a graphics team and a position open. Brilliant.
My thoughts starts from
Anyhow I agree with you that everyone can say "this doesn't work. Fix it" And often posts like this one are just like spam.
But let me give you an example. If I remember right when you put a custom skin in the folder where it should be, it cause text to have almost invisible color. To fix it there's need of an xml. Well this is an example of something absolutely bad that the common user can't give you a way to fix.
And I hope in FM2010 we simply have to put the skin in the folder, without creating any file
Ah, so was my mass thread useless then
Anyway, I presume when you say 'reading it' you actually meant you are going to do something.
Obviously it's not perfect, there would need to be a rethink in terms of overusing players' faces, which aren't in the game as standard and probably aren't imported by as many users as people might think - but it is so much infinitely better than the excel-style formatting that we've all become used to. Yes, FIFA/TCM has its bad points (i.e. football management) but it also had its good points, and FM wouldn't necessarily do badly by taking some inspiration from the odd few features.
i personally think those mock-ups are genius, excellent work
IMO this would make fm even better, designing the UI like this wouldn't affect any of the database functions, and it looks much more user friendly and easier to use.
good job stan
Last edited by GillsMan; 26-03-2009 at 09:10.
i like the attribute averages.
I just want SI to enable players faces to be shown on the tactics screen like they do on sky sports.
If ppl aren't into getting facepacks then have an option to disable them at start-up.
Andy Gray has a lot of fun playing with his line up graphics and I want to emulate him.
I just want to add my endorsement to the great ideas Stan has shown us. I agree with posters that have said that having the players' pics on the tactics screen would make it too cluttered, but evrything else looks great and would make it easier (and more entertaining) to see key information. I have to disagree with people that call this "fluff". Aesthetics are important!!
These are absolutely brilliant suggestions for improvements to the FM 'feel'. Like others it probably over uses player faces but the injury graphic, discipline graphic and below league table graphics are great suggestions and very well thought out.
Is there absolutely no way a skin of this can be made? It would be one of the best things to happen to fm!
I don't think it is possible/has been explored yet. If it is not part of the default skins for FM10, hopefully they make it an option.
I like all the text
If there are going to be lots of small graphics replacing existing format, can it be optional?
Sad man, I guess there would be for people who don't/are unable to download graphics.
Well this isnt something that can be fixed by a skin but...
I mean this is a total overhaul of all graphics to do with the game. The more I look at it the more I feel these sort of upgrades will make the game expereince
much much better.
Lets use an analogy here.
I go eat at a resturant. The food is terrific, the service is amazing, it costs little more then Maccas and you get free parking all night smack bang in the
middle of CBD. HOWEVER BOOM the waitresses/waiters look like love child of Golem and Sherk... How does your food go down?
We all know FM>Fifa. HOWEVER I think with the graphics upgrade will make it more appealing to the general public, which means more buyers, more money
for company to make better game etc...
Also with fresh graphics it would mean the overall experience while already great, will be even better!!!
Dont smash the bloke, I think he made a really good point.
graphics making the overall gameplay, ambeience and expereince much better for all playing the game.
do you marry me StanPetrov ?
btw, I love that ss's, the avg atribute .. everything. is it possible to make a skin ?
Stan my friend you have inspired to make my own post, I think our ideas are sort of realated... Take a look?
OBVIOUSLY there is a reason why there isnt all the players photos in profiles. However, what is this reason exactly?
Everyone adds them in later with facepacks and stuff... Is it copy right issues?
They were the most beautiful things I've ever seen
All of those are fantastic, something I'd really like to see in future FM's
I have to say some of that is very impressive and makes the game a lot more appealing on the eye. The only problem I have is that when your players dont have a pic the tactics screen might look a little stupid.
Overall very good work stanpetrov. I like................I said I liiiiiiiikkkeee
Just seen this thread, they're amazing!
Good work matey!
IMO I wouldn't like this, i think it'd make FM appear "gimmicky"...not for me personally!


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subset: commoncrawl


text:
TEXAS. OKLAHOMA (CNN) -- The warnings couldn't have been more dire.
"DO NOT TRAVEL," the National Weather Service in Amarillo, Texas, posted on its website, telling residents not to venture out in what it was calling "a crippling, historic blizzard."
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At least six calls came in from other stranded motorists, he said.
As of 3:30 this afternoon, 15 inches of snow had fallen in Woodward, the National Weather Service said.
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Blizzard conditions are expected to move into south central Kansas early Tuesday, bringing another round of heavy snow to Wichita, which just experienced record snowfall last week.
As the storm moves into eastern Kansas, winds will die down and whiteout conditions are less likely. However, heavy snow is still forecast with snowfall totals over a foot in some areas of southeast Kansas.
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By 4:00 today, 19 inches of snow had fallen in Amarillo -- an all-time single day record for February, the weather service said. Monday's accumulation also ranked as the second highest single-day snowfall accumulation ever recorded there, the agency said.
For some, the service's warnings didn't come soon enough.
Emergency crews were having trouble reaching drivers who were caught on the roads, Texas Department of Public Safety Trooper Gabriel Medrano said. Cars were in ditches, he said, because drivers couldn't tell where road ended and ditch began.
National Guard units were being sent to help stranded motorists, the Texas DOT said.
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Whiteouts were also reported in Oklahoma, where as of 10 a.m. Central time, the state had closed all highways in six counties -- Ellis, Harper, Woodward, Beaver, Texas and Cimarron -- until further notice.
"Roadways and ditches are snow packed with no visibility and are very slick and hazardous. All travel is discouraged," the Oklahoma Department of Transportation said. As much as 16 inches of snow could fall in western areas of the state, the weather service said.
Oklahoma Lt. Governor Todd Lamb declared a state of emergency for 56 of Oklahoma's 77 counties. Visibility was low in Fairview, Oklahoma, midway between the Panhandle and Oklahoma City, said CNN iReporter Brandi Whitacre.
"Right now it is snowing so heavily I can barely see down our driveway, which is 100 yards or so. It is coming down," said Whitacre, who added that'd she'd lost satellite TV service and was experiencing intermittent power outages.
The blizzard is the second major winter storm to hammer the region in a week.


text:
5 Ridiculous Ancient Beliefs (That Thrive on the Internet)
#2. Dowsing
Why are you scraping by paycheck to paycheck when precious metals and oil are right under your feet, waiting to be found? If you thought finding that stuff required all sorts of, you know, experts and equipment and such, you've not heard of dowsing!
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Today, dowsers even have their own professional associations, both Americanand British versions. There's a mailing list for you to join, at a small cost. Trust us, that's the last time the costs will be "small" here.
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Worth every penny.
Of course, just as with ghost hunting, the right tools are everything. Online catalogs sell state of the art water witching tools that boast, "...energy mineral ore is used to stimulate the crystals in the power tube... with a newly developed power load formula in a second power tube."
The top of the line is the Power Master Rod III which can be had for the bargain price of... wait for it...
Be careful before you call bullshit on this, these guys can probably use that thing to "witch" out where you live.
#1. Witchcraft
Witchcraft isn't quite as cool as Voodoo, but the whole dancing naked with the devil thing almost makes up for the lack of zombies. Many witches will complain that we are taking them out of context and that magic is not evil, only the intent of the caster is evil. Fine. We believed Charlton Heston when he said something similar, we'll believe you too.
We went searching the Internet for an information-age solution to our spellcasting needs and, sure enough, found plenty of grimoires (spell books) available online:
Guess which caught our eye.
Shop for grimoires on Amazon and you find dozens of them in print (though the classics can be found freely available as PDFs, such as the Grimoire Verum, Heptameron and The Black Pullet). But we want to be up on only the most modern witchcraft techniques, such as those offered by Summoning Spirits: The Art of Magical Evocation.
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"I'm a student of an esoterical order, and I have quite some knoledge about Magick and Summoning technics. Although this is an interesting book, with a really nice definition of the Art, it takes this Art too lightly in my point of view... I wondered if the author is aware of the real nature and wiseness of this kind of Spirits, and how they can create ilusions in one's mind."
Hmm... that's a good point. We decided to try the less advanced Gothic Grimoire by the same author, but then we saw this one-star review:
Eight of 52 people found that review helpful, which is odd because when we read it out loud our hair burst into flames.
Perhaps this is a subject best left to the experts. And by that we mean an online spell-casting service. Yes, they do curses too. All for the low price of $27, or $54 if you want it triple cast. Or $189 if you want it cast by the coven. If you don't want to wait the usual two or three weeks, add an extra $54 for an urgent cast. All major credit cards accepted, a one year unconditional guarantee on all spells given--provided you maintain a positive frame of mind!
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Hmm... but you are still fat, right?
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What? Holy shit! She had three people killed! With magic!
We hereby take back everything we said.
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text:
I used Google Chrome in Windows, and am now using Chromium in Ubuntu. Is there any difference to the two programs? What are the advantages and disadvantages to each program? Which one seems better?
What's the difference between Google Chrome and/or Chromium? What are the advantages/disadvantages to each?
There are some key differences between Google Chrome and Chromium. First off, Google Chrome is a commercial closed source product made by Google which is based on the open source Chromium project.
Chrome is not available in the default Ubuntu repositories as it's not open source, however Google makes Chrome available through their own 3rd party repository. Chrome is updated by Google directly, as they run the entire repository and update Chrome on their schedule. Since it doesn't need to be redistributable and open source, Chrome includes things that we can't ship in Ubuntu out of the box, like Flash and H264 support (See the Ubuntu promise). However you can install this support with a few packages (see below).
Chromium, being open source, is available in the Ubuntu repositories. This is maintained by Ubuntu developers and goes through our Stable Release Update process. Chromium has a release process exception, which allows the team to upload a Chromium build as soon as a new upstream release is made.
There really aren't any proper "releases" made of Chromium, so Ubuntu developers base their build on what stable version of Chromium the stable Chrome build is based off of. Fabien Tassin has a blog post about this process that goes into much more detail.
The following packages in Ubuntu install the codecs and features in Chromium that you can find in Chrome:
Really it depends on what you want. If you trust Google to not break your computer and like the convenience of Chrome then you can use that; if you want an open source browser that is the basis of Chrome that is peer reviewed by Ubuntu developers and doesn't require 3rd party sources then you want Chromium.
This Wikipedia page outlines some of the security/usage tracking differences between the two browsers.
The official Chromium Wiki provides a detailed list about the differences between Google Chrome and Chromium. It does not reflect differences of vanilla source versus those that are specific to Chromium packages provided by Ubuntu.
Google Chrome is based on Chromium, the Open Source Web Browser. I've been using both of them and they are 99.99% similar. I finally choose to use Chromium because it's open source. You can still use all the extensions for Chrome, and also sync your bookmarks (and other stuff) with a Gmail account.
If you look at Wikipedia it says that the differences are that Chrome has Adobe Flash Player pre-installed (not open source software) and Chromium not. But you can still install it later very easily. That Chrome has auto-update mechanism, but using Ubuntu you have auto-update (and you can also add the Chromium repository). Also that Chrome has Google's brand and Chromium not (I don't care) and they say something about the colors of the logo (not very intelligent comments). Finally they say that Chrome has click-through licensing terms and usage-tracking. This last thing I'm almost sure is optional.
Use Chromium!
There may be additional differences, but the biggest is that Chrome is not FOSS, Chromium is. Chromium also lacks the built-in flash plug-in, though I understand that it will pickup the normal plugin(ffmpeg) without issues.
Chromium is the bleeding edge development of the project. It is the browser, and whatever its current state may be. We usually get a few Chromium builds per day.
Google Chrome is simply a re-branding of Chromium, but is a little more ready for public consumption.
There is another major difference chromium is with usage tracking, like link posting from wikipedia:
Google Chrome is the end product designed for everyday use. Chromium is an opensource project to develop the code that runs Google Chrome.
One thing to note, Google Chrome releases obtained via Google officially should be stable whereas code from the Chromium project is cutting edge and likely to be buggy.
If you want a browsing experience that isn't riddled with bugs, go for Google Chrome. If you enjoy browser crashes and Flash memory and CPU usage being through the roof, you clearly need the bleeding edge untested code direct from the chromium project.
At Last we have to understand that, whether it is Chrome/Chromium/Firefox/ Google probably doesn't care which web browser you use. Google wants this internet eco system to grow and that is where their money is.
I don't know why people are posting the uninformed answers. Chrome beta, canary, and dev are the 'bleeding edge' versions of chrome. At the end of the process, i.e. after a chrome stable build is released, you get a chromium build.
If chromium builds were the latest and greatest, google chrome would be the slowest browser around. Competitors would be leeching everything chrome constitutes of.
Furthermore, with chromium, individuals will be missing new plugins, such as Google Cloud Print, Chrome PDF reader, etc.
Personally, I stick to Chrome, I tried chromium but uninstalled within the day.
What I care more is the EULA and privacy issues related to the two browsers. Read this article which touches (a bit) of the issues:
So I have changed from G-Chrome to Firefox and back to Chromium.
Chrome blocks extensions outside the Chrome Web Store; Chromium does not.
Chrome includes tracking features such as RLZ; Chromium does not.
Chrome's EULA used to include the following:
This has been corrected, whatever that means. Whether this point matters though is debatable; after all, if you have nothing to hide...
Finally, Chromium does not include closed source code like Chrome allowing the community to review it. This, along with the fact that Chromium is less complex since it does not include some goodies like flash and pdf reader, makes it, at least theoretically, more secure.
For the interested reader, there is also an official blog post about the relationship between Google Chrome, Chromium, and Google.
Google Chrome is the stable version of Chromium browser . Google Chrome is based on Chromium . Hence , Chromium is a developer build where tests and new features are being tested at Chromium before it is shifted to Google Chrome as stable version . The biggest difference between the both builds is that Chromium does not have Adobe Flash Plugin embedded while Google Chrome is built in . Moreover , Chromium is updated daily to ensure previous bug had been fixed .
A new reason to use Chromium, rather than Chrome - Chromium does not prevent you from using third party extensions. Google Chrome now totally blocks all extensions that are not directly from their Chrome Ap store.
First of all, Chromium is owned by the community. Chrome, is owned by Google, so Google can do anything with it.
Chromium is Free/Libre Open Source Software (FLOSS). That means if you have enough programming skills, you can see and modify its source code, and, eventually, make it a Closed source (=CS) software (like the Torch Browser on Windows).
Google has already taken and modified the OS code with 3rd party CS, with its own code, and released the CS software named Chrome. Some of the code added include PDF reader, Flash player (which will update, but the Linux one will not update any more) and tracking (so Google and the NSA will know everything).
On Ubuntu, Chrome release = Chromium release, because the Ubuntu team took care about that (as soon as a Chrome update is released, an Ubuntu's Chromium update is released, based by the same source code, but, of course, without Google's code).
Hope that this explained everything.
The choice is yours: Chromium's safety or Chrome's full-of-features ability. (or Firefox or any other browser... There are many browsers in this world... Or even take the source-code of Chromium and make your own browser)
Yes, Google Chrome works fine on Ubuntu(has higher memory usage than firefox, but less cpu than firefox). Difference between Chrome and Chromium is that Chromium is open-source and it is a bit more buggy.
To answer you question more precisely... Chromium is the Open source browser made free; free as in free not free as in beer... Google Chrome is the Google Branded version of the Chromium browser. Trademarks are applied and icons and images are added and thru some kind of legal loop holes Google can "claim" chrome as its own product. btw the trademarks expire soon.
In plain speak, Chromium is the Car and chrome is the color paint on the car... its not functional to the car. I hope that makes sense! so chromium is the car painted blue, and chrome is the car painted blue but with a giant sticker slapped on it in the form of a logo and trademark.
if the chromium ceases to exist chrome would cease to exist and google could do zero about it.
ill be brief, chromium allows google to download but not upload so in a sense they are not even in control of the product, if someone on the chromium end decided to "hack" the chromium browser, chrome would automatically update the chrome browser and everyone using it would be affected by the chromium "hack"...
full disclosure, its made like this for a reason! if google had control of the chromium browser they would have sold it like netscape ;) back in the day... This is for You!
Honestly, the only real differences between Google Chrome and Chromium are that Chromium is open-source and Google Chrome is made commercially. It's like Windows and Ubuntu, with Chromium as Ubuntu and Google Chrome as Windows. Ubuntu is open-source. Windows is commercial. If you can live with open-source things like Ubuntu you can live with Chromium. Plus, there are many rumors (proven true) that google tracks you for advertising and sends it to places all over the web without telling you. So you can pretty much narrow it down to:
Get Chromium. Forget about Google Chrome.


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Arty Home in Carlton Melbourne
Maximální počet hostů2
Počet místností1
Velikost15 m²
Floor No.0
- Internet/WiFi
- Ručníky
- Pračka / sušička
- Myčka na nádobí
- Uzamykatelný pokoj
|Barkly Street, 3053 Melbourne, Austrálie
|Typ nemovitosti
|Soukromý pokoj
|Ident. objektu
|Acceptance rate
|Response time
|A few hours
|Calendar updated
|A month ago
The peaceful bedroom is placed on the ground floor and is equipped with a comfortable double bed. The bathroom is shared and is fitted with a shower. Free Wi-Fi can be used to plan daily activities in Melbourne.
Guests can just walk for 350 metres to the Carlton Gardens, home of the Melbourne Museum, the IMAX Melbourne Museum and the Royal Exhibition Building. Less than 10 minutes away on foot are busy Lygon Street and trendy Brunswick Street where there are cute cafes, trendy bars, world class eateries and quirky boutiques.
Several bus and tram lines serve the neighbourhood.
No pets.
Airport transfers can be arranged for an extra fee of $55 in a silver service car.
|Cena za týden
|286 €
|Cena za měsíc
|1250 €
|Příjezd po
|Check-in before
|Odjezd před
|Stornovací podmínky
Probably the most interesting place I have been to so far.
Craig and Graeme deserve to top up the scoring up to 5+.
The house is located in a quite part of the town but not so far from the city centre.
Lovely stay in a Victorian styled house.
Just lovely.
Quiet music, beautiful arts, plants, antiques, and most of all very friendly and kind people, Craig and Graeme. They made our first visit to Melbourne really memorable. Thanks to arty home we could relax like home and the level of their service exceeded our expectation! I recommended this accommodation with confidence^^
When we arrived ad Graemes we felt like home immediately. The stay was just marvelous and wonderful, we enjoyed it very much.
Graeme was a very certain host. He gave us a lots of good useful information about the places we shell not miss to visit.He was willing every time to listen and talk to us. Melbourne as city itself is marvelous too.
Thanks much to Graeme for his solicitousness.
This is a perfect location with perfect hosts. It's a few minutes walk to all the Lygon Street fun, food, and fashion, and close to the entire University and inner city district. Amazing house, great room with all the convenience and feel of being in your own home. Thank you to Graeme and Craig who are exceptional in their welcome and hospitality. Absolutely fabulous!
We have and already had a great stay at Craig's house. All in all we have been here for 5 Weeks and stay for 1 more week now.
And we would definetly come back again!!
Craig and Graeme made us feel welcome from the first day :)
The house is very close to the city (30 min. of walking) and very nice and clean as well :) The rooms were both very good (we switched during the time).
All in all: Great stay, would ever come back again, nothing negative to say :)
Outstanding and very recommendable! 10/10
Craig and Graeam were very cultivated hosts and provided for an impeccable service. The location ( tram 96 into CBD and St. Kilda at yr feet or 20 min walk downtown ) as well as the décor of the house, the interior garden, the perfectly equipped kitchen and the bright,ample bathroom cannot be praised more.
We came as tourists and left as friends!
thank you for the use of a clean and very tidy house hold, full of atmosphere,both geentlemen were easy to talk to ,although I belted their ear about my life's experiences, they held up okay, would stay again any time
From James
Wir waren 3 wochen bei Greg und Graeme und es War super. Das Zimmer war roll, wie das ganze Haus. Sehr sauber und wirklich sehr gepflegt. Graeme hat uns auch ein Transfer vom Flughafen organisiert was auch toll geklappt hat. In 5 min ist man in der stadt oder direkt auf einer der beliebtesten Straßen melbournes wo sich viele Bars und Restaurants befinden. In einer halben Stunde ist man unkompliziert am Strand. Wir werden definitiv wieder kommen und können nur jedem empfehlen zu greg und graeme zu gehen.
- Ověřenou kvalitu ubytování
- Prověření každého hostitele
- Bezpečné platby prostřednictvím SSL šifrování


text: There are an infinite number of ways to clothe a figure so rather than try to show you how to draw every single one I will try to show you how to approach drawing clothes. Hopefully by the end of this tutorial you will become better at drawing clothes from your imagination and from real life. Let's get started!


text:
I've tried going through the keyboard fixing process documented with that udev README file (as described here), but I get confused pretty much right off the bat. I'm using that "/lib/udev/keymap" tool to diagnose what's going on, but the output I get is weird and the instructions don't really make clear what it is that I should do.
The problem I'm having on this laptop is that the "Fn" keys all (or mostly) seem to behave as if the "fn" key is pressed. That is, the "F6" key for example is also the "Previous Song" key when used with the "fn" meta key on the keyboard, or at least that's what it's supposed to be. Well, for me, if I just hit "F6", key is mapped to "previoussong". If I hit my "fn" key, let it go, and then press "F6", then it comes through as "F6".
For some of the keys, instead of that, a single keypress is reported as two keys: "leftmeta" with a scan code of 0xDB, and then the "Fn" key. So, when I press "F1" (which is not labeled as having an "fn" alternate meaning), I get what looks like two separate events.
Finally, for the "F2" and "F3" keys, labeled as being for screen brightness controls, I get no key events whatsoever if I don't precede them with a press and release of the "fn" meta key. They do, however, show me the brightness adjustment growler message, though they don't actually seem to have any effect on the display.
What do I need to look at in order to get the keyboard to stop being so weird?
(Again, the laptop is a brand new HP dv6t "quad edition" with a US keyboard, and I'm running 11.04.)
edit — I've just now started forming a theory that the keyboard might be working as designed, which would be another reason for me to recommend against these things ... grrrr


text:
I was reading
functions, I came across this question,
Next, the author has given an exercise to find out 3 things from the example,
1. Onto
2. Everywhere defined
3. One to one
I am stuck with how do I come to know if it has these there qualities? I mean if I had values I could have come up with an answer easily but with just a function formula, I don't get how to proceed. Please guide me.


text:
Courtesy of Dan Osby
Courtesy of Dan Osby
A young mountain lion had dogs in a frenzy early Thursday on Delwood Place, a cul-de-sac in the Crestview neighborhood, as it prowled from yard to yard.
The racket started around 6 a.m., said Dan Osby, a business technology consultant, who lives in the cul-de-sac.
Squawking crows later marked the location of the cat in the neighborhood, Osby said.
Osby took a photo of the cat at 8:10 a.m. when he took his children to school.
�I was about 5 feet from the tree,� Osby said. �He could have jumped on me.�
Steve McClung, a Colorado Parks and Wildlife officer, arrived just after the cougar abandoned the tree.
�We had several calls about a cat,� McClung said. �Callers weren�t certain what they were seeing, whether a mountain lion, a lynx or a bobcat.�
McClung identified the intruder from Osby�s photo. He guessed its age at 2 to 3 years, judging from the size of the head in relation to the tree branches.
Had he seen the teeth, the color or the amount of wear could have provided a better clue as to age, McClung said.
�I looked in trees and under shrubs, but the trail had gone cold,� McClung said. �No dogs or crows were making noise, so the lion must have moved on or was holed up somewhere.�
It wouldn�t be unusual to see a mountain lion in Crestview, McClung said. It�s near open space, so it could have been following deer.
Parks and Wildlife spokesman Joe Lewandowski said people should not be overly concerned about the big cats, but they should exercise caution.
�Attacks on people are extremely rare,� Lewandowski said. �Mountain lions like things with four legs.
�But mountain lions are wildlife and therefore unpredictable,� he said. �Keep your distance, and if you come onto one unexpectedly, back away, don�t run.�
Children should be taught how to behave in such cases, he said.


text:
Singh takes lead in BMW
CARMEL, Ind. — Vijay Singh keeps giving himself chances to end four years without a PGA Tour victory. He made four birdies around the turn Friday for a 6-under 66 in the BMW Championship, putting his name atop the leaderboard for the second time in his last four tournaments.


text:
Trailing by 5 at halftime, the Pratt High School boys basketball team picked up their first win of the season in their home opener on the strength of a ferocious defensive effort in the third quarter. The Greenbacks D laid a goose-egg on Haven in the 3rd quarter, and propelled Pratt to a 52-42 victory. The PHS offense got out of the gate well Friday night as well, after struggling at times in their first two games. Spencer Sullivan hit a three-pointer and converted a press-breaker lay-up to stake the Greenbacks to a 5-0 lead in the early going. Pratt was up 18-12 after one stanza. The second quarter was not a good one for Pratt. Pratt's offense went cold and in the final four minutes before halftime, Haven went on an 8-0 run to claim a 28-23 lead at intermission. The 3rd quarter was all Pratt, however. "We made a defensive adjustment at halftime," explained David Swank, PHS head coach. "We put Liam Kahmeyer on Hendrixson (Haven's primary offensive threat) and he did a great job." The other Frogs picked it up defensively as well, and controlled the boards so that the Wildcats were usually only getting one look per possession— and as a result, did not score. Meanwhile, Sullivan hit another pair of trifectas and Kahmeyer added a 3-ball and a free throw. Derek Barnard and Samson Kohman each hit one from the charity stripe and Traik Peltier got into the act, picking up a basket. Outscoring Haven 12-0 in Q3 put Pratt in the driver's seat 35-28 heading into the final period. Adam Bartel made some key buckets in the lane and Derek Barnard scored 9 points to pace the Frogs in Q4. Christian Kurz and Sullivan made free throws to help keep Haven at bay as they fouled freely in the late going. "Adam Bartel was physical inside tonight," Coach Swank observed. "He hit some big shots. He had a solid game." "Spencer Sullivan (22 pts) shot the ball well," Swank continued, "and Derek Barnard (12 pts) made some big plays." Haven was averaging about 60 ppg coming into the game, so to hold them to 42 was a stellar effort by PHS. The offense also looked better at times. "We got into a good flow in the second half," concluded Swank. The 52-42 win makes the Greenbacks 1-2 going into the holiday break, They will return to the hardwood Jan. 7th hosting Hays High. . Scoring: Sullivan 21, Barnard 12, Kohman 6, Kurz 2, Kahmeyer 5, Peltier 2, Bartel 4
Location, ST | website.com


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I know that most lubavitchers won't learn Daf Yomi.
Is there any Sicha (please bring sources) which says if one should or shouldn't learn it?
I know that most lubavitchers won't learn Daf Yomi.
Is there any Sicha (please bring sources) which says if one should or shouldn't learn it?
I heard (no source) that when asked once the Rebbe said Daf Yomi is not a "davar Hashaveh lcol nefesh" (something that would apply equally to everyone) unlike the shiurim in Chumash, Tehilim, Tanya and Rambam.
However, it should also be mentioned that Lubavtich has its own (older) tradition from the Alter Rebbe (subsequently printed in Igros Kodesh of Tanya) about dividing and partnering everyone in learning Gemara, where everyone takes a different misechta and learns it through the year (this division was initially done on Yud Tes Kisleiv, subsequently moved to Chof Dalet Tamuz, and since moved back to Yud Tes Kisleiv), where everyone in the group becomes a partner and with their learning their part, they become a partner in the whole Shas every year.
Promoting Daf Yomi would be promoting a different system where one person would have difficulty doing both and the Rebbe very much promoted the maintenance and strengthening of Chabad customs among Chabad Chassidim.
Of course the Siyum Hashas was a wonderful thing, and although I avoid trying to project what someone would have said as it tends to just be wishful thinking on the part of the speaker, it is quite imaginable that the Rebbe's reaction to the Siyum would have been to praise it and point that it is a lesson to strengthen and encourage the custom of dividing Shas according to the Alter Rebbe's system as well.
Since Daf Yomi is printed in the weekly Dvar Malchus booklet - It's very unlikely that the Rebbe opposed learning it.
While the Rebbe did not openly endorse Daf Yomi, there is no sicha of (because this is the antithesis of) the Rebbe telling Chassidic dafka not to learn Gemara in this way.
The fact that there were a dozen or so high profile Rabbonim representing Chabad at the recent Agudath Israel of America daf yomi siyum, is clear that Lubavitch supports any and all forms of Torah learning:
I recalled reading somewhere that at least one member of the Crown Heights Beis Din was also.
There are Lubavitchers who do Daf Yomi, but I assume your question is why it isn't emphasized to learn Daf Yomi in Chabad. I believe the answer to your question is that Chabad has its own daily studies to do, like chumash, tehillim, Tanya, rambam. When a Lubavitcher does all those and has extra time, then he goes on to Daf Yomi, but he starts off with his own minhag which is the primary focus
I question the basis for saying that most Lubavichers don't learn Daf Yomi. If, as indicated in the comments, this is based on your years in Yeshivah, then you've answered your own question: Daf Yomi is not part of any mainstream Yeshivah curriculum. It is, rather, a tool to encourage widespread Talmud Torah among the public not (or no longer) in Yeshivah.
You can most certainly find Daf Yomi classes taught in Chabad houses all around the world.
As a Toras Emes alumnus I can say that we don't participate in it mainly because it was invented by Aguda leaders who were not in favor of the central importance of Lubavitch in the Jewish world.
It would seem that all Chabad learning cycles are limited to 1 year or less (save for one exception). Keeping to a yearly cycle would seem logical as most of Judaism revolved around the a yearly cycle.
Chumash - follows the parsha of the week and completes in 1 year
Tehilim - Finished monthly
Tanya - Was divided by the Rebbe Rayatz to be learned on a yearly cycle
Hayom Yom - A 1 year calendar (the 1st book published by the Rebbe).
Torah Ohr/Likutei Torah - Also known as the "Chassidish Parsha" is formatted around the parsha of the week. So technically it can be learned in 1 year. (if I remember correctly, when the Rebbe gave out L'chaim at shabbos Farbrengens to those who learned the Chassidishe Parsha, only those that actually finished the portion would have the audacity to count themselves in)
Rambam - The Rebbe instituted a learning cycle for the Rambam to be finished in 1 year, by learning 3 chapters a day. The Rebbe also said that if that is not possible for someone to learn 3 chapter they can learn 1 chapter and finish in 3 years. This seems to be the only exception for a learning cycle to be longer than a year.
Sefer Hamitzvos - Learning sefer Hamitzvos - for those that do not learn the above mentioned Rambam cycle (such as children). This is a yearly cycle as the mitzvos of the day follow those that are learned in the 3 chapter cycle above.
Tanach - In Hayom Yom - 19 adar 1 - it states that "ordinary" Chassidim finished the entire Tanach every 3 months.
Chalukas Hashas - As explained in a previous answer, the corpus of the Talmud was divided amongst a community, so that everyone shared in the learning. This was a yearly cycle as well.
Hemshechim - With the exception of 2 (samach-vav, eiyin-bais) possibly 3 (basi ligani is a hemshech?) hemsheichim, none of them were extended over a year (I can be wrong, as I've not learned the entire body of Chabad Chassidus)
Yeshiva Mesechta - The Mesechta of Gemorah that the Chabad Yeshivas learn is different every year.
It would seem that Chabad focuses on finishing or just limiting a cycle within a year. There can be many reasons. I don't know of any official ones, but there are some common sense ones. Such as, if someone "falls off" the learning train, they can easily get motivated to start again in the next cycle. Another reason, a commitment for 1 year is a log easier to keep to than one that is longer. And others reasons you can probably think of.
When The Rebbe said (mi pi shemua) that daf yomi is not Davar Hashave lkol nefesh" it was before the appearance of the artschroll Gemara


text:
Evercolor Poreless Face Defender
Revolutionary water-clear finish sets, extends wear, minimizes pores, and looks flawless.
Mally's Evercolor Poreless Face Defender is the perfect finishing touch for your makeup. This remarkable technology yields an utterly sheer, featherweight product that diffuses the look of pores, minimizes fine lines, and helps protect your makeup so it lasts from morning to night. Face Defender gives you that flawless matte finish without the dry, ashy look of powder. The result is silky smooth skin and longer-lasting makeup. It comes with a unique buffed-edge Japanese sponge.
Swirl the sponge in the Face Defender and softly pat this innovative, sheer formula all over your face. Never swipe or rub as this can move your makeup.
Use the rounded corners of the sponge to get into all those hard to reach places, such as side of nose and inner corners of your eyes.
Ingredients: Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Dimethicone, Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Dimethicone/Vinyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer, PCA Dimethicone, Silica.


text:
The Broward Sheriff's Office is asking residents in North Andrews Gardens and surrounding unincorporated areas to call a new number when requesting non-emergency service. Residents will get the same response and quality service from BSO deputies, only their assistance will come from a different building starting Friday, December 21st at 10:30 p.m.
Currently, non-emergency calls from residents in North Andrews Gardens and surrounding communities are received at the main BSO Communications Center, located at the Ron Cochran Public Safety Building. Residents who live east of I-95, south of Cypress Creek Road, west of Dixie Highway, and north of Prospect Road are being asked to call (954) 561-6161 rather than (954) 765-4321.
By calling the new non-emergency number, deputies will be dispatched from BSO's District 12 Office in Oakland Park, located at 301 NE 38 Street. Deputies from BSO's District 7 Tamarac office will no longer patrol this area. Most of the deputies who patrol the North Andrews Gardens area are being re-assigned to District 12 so that residents will see the same friendly faces they are familiar with.
This transition is more accommodating considering Oakland Park's proximity to the North Andrews Gardens area. Anyone with questions or concerns should call BSO Chief Larry Rogers or Lt. Jeff Tozzie at (954) 561-6111.
Posted At: 12/18/2001 10:10 AM
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text:
CHA OK with final contraception-coverage rule.
Last night the Catholic Health Association issued a memo to its members announcing that the final rules governing the Obama administration's contraception-coverage mandate are workable. In June of last year, CHA strongly criticized--as did the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops--the way the Department of Health and Human Services had attempted to accommodate the concerns of religious employers who objected to the mandate. The USCCB is still not (and may never be) happy with the rule. But CHA now believes HHS has addressed their concerns.
"It was important for our members to achieve resolution of this issue in time for them to negotiate their insurance renewals and with the assurance they would not have to contract, provide, pay or refer for contraceptive coverage," Sr. Carol Keehan, president of CHA, told me. "We are pleased that that has been achieved with this accommodation." From yesterday's memo:
Since the original rule was issued over a year ago, there has been considerable concern raised by many parties including CHA. CHA had two principal concerns. The first was the four-part definition of what constituted a "religious employer." That concern has been eliminated. CHA's second concern was establishing a federal precedent that mandated our members would have to include in their health plans, services they had well-established moral objections to.
HHS has now established an accommodation that will allow our ministries to continue offering health insurance plans for their employees as they have always done.
Given that CHA membership includes only nonprofit hospitals, it's not concerned with for-profit employers who object to the mandate. "We recognize the broader issues will continue to be debated and litigated by others." Still, "Throughout this process, CHA has been in dialogue with the leadership of the bishops conference, the administration, and HHS."
So what do the final rules say?
As CHA explained to its members, the final rules dispatch with the earlier, much-maligned four-part definition of a religious employer as one that is not for profit, primarily serves co-religionists, primarily employs co-religionists, and exists to inculcate religious values. That's been simplified. HHS lifted the new definition from the tax code. Any religious organization that's exempt from filing a Form 990 (which all other nonprofits must file with the IRS every year)--including churches, integrated auxiliary association, and the religious activities of any religious order--is completely exempt from the mandate. That is, they don't have to offer contraception coverage to their employees, and their employees are not eligible to receive it for free outside their employers' health plans.
In order to accommodate the objections of other kinds of religious groups, HHS created a class of "eligible organizations," which will not be required to cover contraception in their employee health plans, but whose workers can obtain such coverage from third-party providers. Which employers qualify? Religious nonprofits that object to covering contraception on religious grounds. All they have to do in order to get the accommodation is to self-certify that they qualify. They fill out a form, send one copy to their insurer and file away another for safekeeping, as required by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. They don't have to send it to HHS or the IRS. (But should the government come calling, they do have to produce it.)
Once the insurer receives the form, the employer's work is done. The insurance company must then notify covered employees--separately from literature related to the main policy--that it will be paying for contraceptive services. (It's barred from adding fees to the employer's premiums in order to recoup costs--nor can the insurer allow the costs to be reflected in the premiums.) Rather than offer a separate contraception policy, as the previous dratf of the rules proposed, insurers must segregate the premiums it receives from "eligible organizations" from the funds they use to pay for contraception.
Now, some will surely object that this is nothing more than an "accounting gimmick." But this is precisely how states that cover elective abortions for Medicaid enrollees are able to receive federal dollars for the program. The Hyde Amendment bars federal money from funding elective abortions. The only way such states can receive federal money in compliance with that law is to create separate accounts for both funding sources. (Incidentally, when the bishops were lobbying against Obamacare, that was part of the status quo they said they supported.)
So-called self-insured eligible organizations are handled a bit differently. Those employers don't contract with insurance companies to cover for their employees' health-care services. They fund them directly, and pay a third-party administrator to manage the claims (administrators are often insurance companies). Such organizations simply send their self-certification form to the third-party administrator, which must state that the employer is not the claims administrator and cite the administrator's obligations under ERISA regulations. Again, employers don't have to send the form to any government agency. They just have to keep a copy in their files.
At this point, the third-party administrator has to decide whether it wants to handle the contraception services. If so, it's responsible for notifying employees (again, separately from any communications related to the main policy) that they will receive this coverage, and then it must arrange for the coverage, whether through its own network (if it's an insurance company), or by contracting with another provider. Third-party administrators that agree to this will be reimbursed for their costs.
This means that none of the money collected by self-insured religious employers that object to the mandate will pay for contraceptive services. And that none of the premiums paid by other objecting religious organizations will be used to cover such services. This is why, as I've written a few times before, it seems to me that Catholic employers can comply with the mandate without running afoul of Catholic moral teaching. (Indeed, at least one bishop has expressed cautious optimism about the previous version of the accommodation.)
In addition, if an "eligible organization" wants to exclude one form of contraptive services from its plan but not others, insurers (or third-party administrators) must honor that request, and offer the excluded coverage separately.
Religious employers have until January 1, 2014, to comply.
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Grant, thanks for this post. I had seen an article or blog post ("seen" as in, "noted its existence but hadn't read through") somewhere in the last few days whose thesis seemed to be that the final rules were pretty much identical to what had been proposed before, so I appreciate your highlighting what has changed. I'm sure CHA made an honest and thorough evaluation before making this recommendation to its members.
FWIW, here is the blog post I had in mind. It turns out that I had read it through, as there isn't much to read; but your post here contradicts its main contention: "the long and the short of it is that nothing has changed since this came out in a draft form in February."
Yes, as I've written before, I find Matthew Franck's analysis of the Affordable Care Act deeply confused.
To the CHA: Welcome to the 20th century.
The final decisions will have to be made locally by each hospital board of directors. Some are still directly controlled by bishops but my impression is that most have lay boards or are controlled by religious orders.
Some of the 2000 health facilities who are members of CHA have plan years starting January 1, so they will have to make decisions about insurance within the next few months.
Perhaps the next step in the battle will be for some diocesan bishops to try to convince boards they don't directly control to reject the HCA recommendation and refuse to comply with the HHS contraception regulations. It will be interesting to see what arguments they make and what success they have. It will also be interesting to see what bishops do where they do control hospital boards.
Who reimburses the admistrator of self-insured plans? (HHS claims insurers of insured plans will save money, which makes on wonder why they haven't been force-feeding contraception pills to the insured; but obviously administrators won't make money and neither will any insurance company that pays only for sterilization, abortifacients, and contracetives.) Is the taxpayer on the hook here?
Ultimately yes, in the sense that the taxpayer is also on the hook for subsidies the government provides to for-profit cogs in the war machine. TPAs that agree to provide contraception coverage will receive subsidies in the form of lower fees on the exchanges (plus more, if their costs end up being more).
William Dempsey, they are paid out of fees that they or other insurance companies pay to sell insurance though governent health exchanges.
(3) If a third party administrator provides or arranges payments for contraceptive services in accordance with either paragraph (b)(2)(i) or (ii) of this section, the costs of providing or arranging such payments may be reimbursed through an adjustment to the Federally-facilitated Exchange user fee for a participating issuer pursuant to 45 CFR 156.50(d).
http://www.ofr.gov/OFRUpload/OFRData/2013-15866_PI.pdf see page 86
I don't believe TPAs, as distinguished from insurance companies, participate in the exchanges. They evidently will be reimbursed for expenses plus a profit directly from the general fund. So what it comes to in substance is that, when a catholic school offers a medical/hospital plan to its employees, they will receive free abortifacients, contraceptives, and sterilization paid for by the government. And the question is whether catholic schools, hospitals, and so on should object by way of litigating or remedial legislation or both, or instead acquiesce. It is not, that is, whether they should refuse to comply after they have exhausted reasonable efforts to have the regulaton set aside by court of legislature. If the government were to offer such a program to employers who voluntarily joined, should a catholic school join? If not, why should it not seek to have this mandate lifted by legitimate means?
Mr. Dempsey, please see the detailed dscussion starting on page 33 of the document I linked.
Mr. Dempsey, please see the detailed dscussion starting on page 33 of the document I linked.
Grant --
What's a "TPA"?
Could we make it a rule here that when a post uses an acronym it must first tell us what the acronym stands for? It can do this simply first spelling out the phrase in the first instance and later using the acronym. Or, it could used the acronym then put its meaning in parentheses after it, e.g., NAM (National Assoc. of Manufacturers). Or whatever -- that way we don't have to be mind-readers.
Ann - "TPA" = "Third Party Administrator". For organizations that self-insure, typically they hire a TPA to do the administrative tasks that are required for an employee insurance plan. The TPA would handle tasks like enrollment and claims.
Ironically, given the hullabaloo around the contraceptive mandate, it may be the only provision of Obamacare that adheres to its announced schedule. :-).
Priorities, priorities. Never mind life-saving care or expensive bills that send people into bankruptcy, at least college girls will have free condom substitutes.
Wasting Time: The college girls get free condoms in compensation for doubled student loan fees. The college boys get nada. It's all about who gets what.
Thank you, Mr. Hayes. It is good to have the correct set of regulations. It does not seem that the passage you quote, or any other I can find on a quick reading, supports the CHA statement that "the participating insurer and TPA will also receive an added allowance to compensate for administrative costs and margin associated with the contraeptive services provided under the accommodatio." But it's immaterial to my qustion. In any case in whatever form, the federal government is paying for the service.
allowance to compensate for administrative costs and margin associated with the
contraceptive services provided under the accommodation
I reply to myself to apologize for not cutting the two dangling phrases at the end of my comment.
I add that I have heard nothing about the question I raise, namely, whether if a Catholic organization should not voluntarily accept the government's offer to provide free abortifacients, contraceptives, and sterilization to its employees, it should acquience in this mandate without seeking judicial relief first. This question is entirely unrelated to the question of compliance once reasonable means of protest have been exhausted.
The Catholic organization is not receiving contraception coverage (and the science is not settled on Ella's abortifacient properties). The employees are, unless they work for an exempt church organization, in which case they do not have access to the coverage. Those who work for "eligible" organizations can choose not to avail themselves of the coverage. Many of them are not Catholic. Under Title X, the federal government has been providing FDA-approved contraception for forty years. Catholic moral teaching does not hold that citizens are morally culpable for what their government does with their tax dollars.
With respect, this does not answer my question. I did not suggest anyone was morally responsible for what the government does with its money. I simply wanted to get clear the fact that the benefits are federally funded in order to lay the ground for my question, which is whether it would be morally permissible for a Catholic organization to accept a proffer by the government to afford this coverage to the organization's employees upon application by the organization, and, if not, why then should such an organization not seek to avoid the government's providing this coverage upon the organization's pulling the trigger by providing health care under government compulsion. To put it differently, why should CHA be praised, instead of criticised, for not seeking to avoid this effect of its action. That action is a necessary cause of the provision of devices, drugs, and surgeries that presumably these organizations hold to be immoral. They will not be provided unless the organiazation offers a health care plan, and the government requires that it do so. As I said, the question of compliance or defiance if court and legislative efforts fail is an entirely discrete question. (The dispute over whether Plan B and Ella are abortifacients is immaterial here, where the question is one of conscience, not law or science, unless the CHA takes a the view that the drugs here involved and sterilization are morally permissible.)
Accuracy matters. The bishops of Connecticut, for example, changed their minds about whether Plan B has abortifacient properties and stopped protesting a state law that required hospitals to dispense the drug to rape victims who requested emergency contraception. The German bishops agreed (in fact, they permit Ella to be given ro rape victims). Some Protestants oppose the mandate because they claim it requires them to fund abortifacient drugs.
I simply wanted to get clear the fact that the benefits are federally funded in order to lay the ground for my question, which is whether it would be morally permissible for a Catholic organization to accept a proffer by the government to afford this coverage to the organization's employees upon application by the organization, and, if not, why then should such an organization not seek to avoid the government's providing this coverage upon the organization's pulling the trigger by providing health care under government compulsion.
Contraception coverage is only "federally funded" by way of subsidies, and insurance companies acting as insurers (not third-party administrators for self-insured employers) will cover contraception actuarially it seems not to increase their costs.
The current form of the mandate seems to allow Catholic employers, according to the principles of their own tradition of moral theology, to licitly cooperate with this regulation. (I won't rehearse my argument again here.) I opposed the mandate's original form because it would have forced Catholic employers to contract for contraception coverage.
I simply wanted to get clear the fact that the benefits are federally funded in order to lay the ground for my question, which is whether it would be morally permissible for a Catholic organization to accept a proffer by the government to afford this coverage to the organization's employees upon application by the organization.
But the Catholc organzation is not being asked to apply for the coverage. The government is saying "if you choose not provide this coverage to your employees, we will cause it to be provided to them by others - you have no choice about that."
Btw, I take it that the mythical Catholic Taco Bell franchisee is just SOL?
I think it is very inappropriate for the bishops to lobby this issue in the public square. It's one thing to exercise their authority in the pulpit, but in the legistive arena, we're a representative democracy.
They must know they don't speak for most Catholics on contraception, so they shouldn't be advocating as if they do. I think it is dishonest and an abuse of their position.
I see. The quetion II raised turns upon the distinction betweeen (1) voluntarily taking action that the actor knows will result in illicit actions by others and (2( tthe actor being compelled to take such action by force of law after having unsuccessfully taken available measure to be relieave of such compulsion. Since you believe that Catholic organiaations may volutarily take such action -- "licitly cooperate" -- of course you agree with CHA. Like you, I will not here elaborate on this issue of material cooperation, trusting that the precise framiong of the issue will suggest that there is a substantial contrary view.
(Of course accuracy matters, but not on particular distinctions for particular questions. Here, the certain results are increased use of contraceptives and sterilization, illicit under Catholic teaching. Whether Plan B or Ella or both terminate human life is significant to non-Catholic Christians who have resisted, but not to the fundamental religious liberty question raised under Catholic teaching.)
Oh, but you omitted the operative part of my question, Mr. Hayes The part you quote -- "whether it would be morally permissible for a Catholic organization to accept a proffer by the government to afford this coverage to an organization's employees upon application by the organization" -- is simply a hypothetical designed to lay the foundation for the question at hand -- "if not, why then should such an organization not seek to avoid the government's providing this coverage upon the organization's pulling the trigger by providing health care under government compulson." I may be missing something, but I do not see a response to either the hypothetical or the operative parts of my question.
The Catholic moral tradition is premised on the reality of original sin. That is, it does not pretend that there is a universe in which moral agents act with complete freedom from sinfulness. Everything an employer provides to his employees in exchange for their labor could be used for illicit purposes. In the United States, benefits are considered part of an employee's compensation package. Every dollar a diocese pays an employee can be used to procure all manner of goods to be used for purposes considered illicit by the Catholic Church. How many Catholics have used their salaries to pay divorce attorneys? Are their bishops responsible? No more than they are to be credited when their employees use their wages to serve the poor. An employee's moral choices are her responsibility. In other words, you can't cut out the moral agency of the employee and expect to have provided sufficient moral analysis of the problem--at least not if you want to claim to be analyzing the situation according to Catholic tradition.
Btw, I take it that the mythical Catholic Taco Bell franchisee is just SOL?
Hobby Lobby and others are pursuing that in the courts. I don't think anyone expected that HHS would exempt for-profit businesses.
Of course not. But this sort of reductio absurdum works only with comparable illustrations. Here, the analogy would be, not to your example of an employer paying wages that an employee uses in part to pay for a divorce, but to an employer providing as a fringe benefit payment for divorce, And who in the world would "cut out the moral agency of the employyee"? By definition, by speaking in terms of material coooperation with evil, we are speaking of cooperation with other persons' illicit actions. All depends on circumstances. What I am after is an analysis, not of the liceity of complying with this mandate if there is no way out other than civil disobedience with its attendant consequences, but of the obligation, if there is one, of exhausting avaiable means of relief from the mandate. The cooperation comes in the form of taking a step essential to the provision of the contraceptive services, that is, providing a health insurance plan. If one believes that taking such a step voluntarily, knowing with reasonable certainty that the result will be that employees will engage in more contraception, is morally unobjectionable, as I take it you do, then of course there is no problem. I question whether this position squares with traditional material cooperation analysis. What would be required is counterbalancing beneficial effects that outweigh the moral evil.
This is not a case of reductio ad absurdum. American workers receive benefits in exchange for their labor. What they choose to do with those benefits is up to them. No one will force anyone to use the free contraception coverage, just as no one forces anyone to buy condoms with their diocesan paychecks.
You're quite right that you can't run an analysis of cooperation with evil without accounting for circumstance. That's what I have been doing for months. The circumstance is the Affordable Care Act and its attendant regulations. You keep missing an essential part of Catholic moral reasoning. In order to determine whether material cooperation with evil is licit, we must answer the question: Is my cooperation the only way the evil end could be achieved, or is it likely that the evil end would result without my cooperation. In this case, if Catholic employers were to choose not to offer their employees medical coverage, their employees would end up going to the exchanges to secure coverage. That coverage would include contraception services (and possibly abortion). They would pay for that coverage with their wages. (Don't forget that employees of dioceses and their auxiliaries--parishes, schools, etc.--will not receive free contraception coverage.) Either way, their employees will be obtaining contraceptive coverage.
I don't know whether the USCCB has an obligation to exhaustively oppose the mandate. At some point, I imagine, the bishops would want to ask themselves: How much is this campaign costing us, in treasure and credibility?
why then should such an organization not seek to avoid the government's providing this coverage
How would they do that?
They are not compelled by the government to provide health care coverage to their employees. If they elect not to, the Supreme Court has already decided that they can be required to pay a tax.
If they do elect to provide health care coverage to their employees, on what basis would they argue that he government should not be allowed to provide free contraceptives to any employees who want them?
i suppose there will be some people who will go to court. Please see my comment of July 9 at 4:06 pm.
The means of recourse are, of course, through litigation and legislation. If there is a moral obligation to seek to be relieved from a legal obligation to take action that will result in increased contraception, sterilizatiom, and abortions (for those who believe Plan B is an abortifacient), the only reason not to litigate or seek legislative relief, I suggest, would be if settled law stands in the way of litigation and the political landscape forecloses legislation. Speaking only of litigation, surely no informed and disinterested lawyer would say say that settled law under the Restoration of Freedom of Religious Liberty act makes litigation a sure loser. There will be reasonable differences of view as to the odds and no siure guidance in precedent, but litigation would be far from frivolous. And free legal counsel is readily available. In thee ciorcumstances, I suggest that the reason Catholic organizatios may refrain from pusuing potentially available remedies, and their supporters thiink they should, may not be grounded so much in a careful analysis of the material cooperation doctrine but rather in the view that making contraception and sterilzation and "morning after" pills freely available is not so bad after all.
You may believe Plan B is an abortifacient. But science says otherwise.
I choose to believe Plan B is the solution to male pattern baldness, and I am stockpiling accordingly.
If Plan B is plan B, what was plan A?
John - Plan A are all those bald men walking around today.
Please consider that some contraceptives are used for medical conditions in order to prevent the need for expensive surgeries or treatments that would likely fall under your defintions of "life-saving care" and "expensive bills." So, the mandate does "mind life-saving care or expensive bills that send people into bankruptcy." These medications are more than just "condom substitutes."
(That was directed toward user "Wasting Time," not toward the author.)


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Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program 2013 Reauthorization: Midwestern Regions Listening Sessions
Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program 2013 Reauthorization: Midwestern Regions Listening Sessions
Event Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 4:00pm to 5:30pm EDT
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