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Will Leeds ever stop being favourites for relegation? I do hope kip comes back soon as this experiment is awesome... I read the last one with great interest. I have a feeling both clubs might be staring relegation in the face this season...
Will Leeds ever stop being favourites for relegation? I do hope kip comes back soon as this experiment is awesome... I read the last one with great interest. I have a feeling both clubs might be staring relegation in the face this season...
With FM2011 closing in the horizon, I, too, lost my belief in this continuing. Very big thanks to Kip for all his work up to now if he ever sees this
Hi folks,
Apologies for the very long absence, I had no idea whether I was going to have the time to continue the experiment or not so didn't want to say a) that it would, and keep you hanging, or b) that it couldn't, if there was some chance of it happening.
Sadly, it is difficult for me to have a spare minute at the moment (new job, new baby), let alone enough time to compile the sort of report that would continue the experiment in faith (there is only so much cutting down before it becomes worthless), and with no prospect of that changing this side of Christmas I'm afraid I'm going to have to call it a day on this particular experiment. By the time I could pick it up again, FM11 will be in full flow, and in keeping with my 'purchase every two years' policy, I will have moved on to that.
I would like to say a massive thanks to everyone who has followed this, and the FM07 one which went so much further - what started out as a big of fun turned into a huge affair because of your reactions to it. So thank you, genuinely. You are the reason I want to return and continue.
Once things settle down, I will be back in 2011 with a new experiment, in the new game, and using the new functionality (look for the Bandits and Sheriffs in the lower lower lower leagues). I will start it at a time when I can commit to putting in the required hours - stringing along with an update every six weeks isn't ideal for anyone.
Once again, thanks - and sorry this one couldn't go further. But to utter an immortal phrase, I'll be back...
It was good while it lasted Kip. I look forward to the next one and cheers for the effort put in over the year as these have always been an essential read.
Good luck with the new baby mate, mine's 14 months old now so I know exactly how much time they take up. Enjoy.
Cheers kip. You'll always be a legend in CSE regardless.
we thought we were your baby. :'(
ah I kid, you have given us a lot of good times and I'm sure everyone will join me in wishing you the best in your exciting new world. Would you be interested in uploading the game file if anyone is interested in continuing it? Even just zooming through a couple of decades to give us a very wide-scope resolution would be nice.
Cheers for the notice Kip. Congrats on both the job & the baby. Let's all have a good rest till FM2011 then. It will surely be a cracking one given the new features
If you believe he will return............... he will.
Congratulations all round Kip.
Good to have you back.
Viva La Bandits
I saw Kips name and got excited! Thanks for the stories and memories. Bandits will live on in my mind.
Until 2011... Up the Bandits
Last edited by leonavich; 10-09-2010 at 00:24.
Thanks a lot for everything, Kip. We'll be waiting for your next update, whenever it is. Good luck and have fun with life.
Kip is dead! Long live Kip!
Can only echo the above Kip, I've loved following this experiment!
Roll on FM11
Loved the experiment while it lasted, good luck in sorting all the stuff in your life and I look forward to reading your absolutely gripping reports in a new experiment sometime in the future.
Thank you for your time and your effort.
This thread was better then a lot of books that I read.
Good luck with your job and your child.
Well I have to say I really enjoyed reading that - all 21 pages! Every page was enjoyable, and I'll definitely be following any future projects. I've learned a lot from this thread; it was educational as it was enjoyable. I'd like to mimic fabioke by saying thank you very much for your time and effort.
Cheers for the update KIP. Shame you've had to call it a day. But there is life outside of FM. (as i've just found too)
Good luck with your personal quests. And i look forward to the next update.
You actually read through all 21 pages? About 20 and a half pages is filled with people wondering if Kips dead.
I read through the original thread using CTRL+F "kipfizh"
Shame this one couldn't get as far as the first, one of my favourite things on the entire forum. Thanks for the hours of entertainment kip, and good luck with real life!
Sad to see this end before its time.
Please be sure to post about the new thread in the main forum as I'm sure everyone who regularly posts/checks there will be waiting for it!
post in this thread too though, I never go in CSE anymore.
Is this series dead now? It would be understandable if a shame but I really enjoyed reading these.
Epic uppage.
I'm guessing as it hasn't been updated for over 8 months that it definitely is dead.
In fact this is Kip's last activity
It would be good if somebody else could take it over. Woudn't be the same as Kip doing it, but would be nice to see it live on.
Come on guys. Don't up a topic like this one. I had a heart attack seeing it on top thinkin we are back in business!! Jokes aside though, I don't quite thing anything similar to this will have the same effect so we should better accept the fact that Bandits are over after all those glories
Afternoon everyone.
As I talked about above, this particular incarnation of the experiment is dead - life simply got too busy for me to continue, and it would be nigh-on worthless to pick up again, since it is based on FM2009.
However, the series is 100% categorically NOT dead - I actually haven't purchased FM since FM2009 but will be getting FM2012, and the experiment will return once the game has stabilised. That doesn't mean waiting until after Christmas, it means waiting for the first/second patches to come out that address the things missed in development. So while I predicted that the next iteration would be FM2011 (which was wrong), it will return in 2011. Just.
So what can you expect? Well, without knowing what is in FM2012 yet, it is hard to say, but the Bandits and Sheriffs will return, each with their pre-determined squad and staff members, entered at the lowest rung of the football ladder that I can put them in, which might even be a custom league. I'll be utilising as many of the new features from the three FM games since FM2009 as possible, before constructing those mammoth reports I always keep you waiting for I even have a plan of when I can do it.
Stay tuned.
Oh, and one person bumps the thread after months and three old school fans are there within half an hour? You guys are awesome.
Looking forward to coming back.
I'd just like to put on record that I made all this possible... Please form an orderly queue for the secret ballot to vote me the most awesome bumper of old threads... *takes a bow whilst holding flowers*
I'll add Bandits 2011 (Xmas) to Star Wars:TOR in my list of things I'll be impatiently waiting for.
Kip lives!!!
And has just got us all really excited. I'd like to retract my earlier notion for someone else to take over...
Ohh sir you still are a big tease!! Roll on FM2012 then. We should bump Miles to hurry the production
OOoooooo I'm so excited now. Kip - could you start to reveal your plans during the summer to keep us entertained?!
I unbookmarked this thread. But thank the lord for the Bandits fan page on facebook. Good to hear from you Kip & i look forward to Fm12 & your first update (and the months pining & waiting for the next )
Maybe every time SI release a feature, I should do the same
In all seriousness, I do want to open a quick poll for one of the features, which is around the nationalities of the players. In the FM07 project, all 22 starlets and both idiots were English only. In the FM09 project, the 22 starlets and four idiots had dual nationalities - English and one other, where each of their other nationalities were different from each other. I want to change it up a bit this time, and I've got a selection of options. Please choose from the following, and if you can back up your choice with a compelling reason why it should be chosen, your vote will count double.
a) Make all starlets and idiots English only (as FM07)
b) Make all starlets English only and all idiots another nationality only
c) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality - English and one other, where that other nationality is different each time (as FM09)
d) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality - English and one other, where the 'other' is picked from a pool of 4-5 leading nations.
e) Make all starlets and idiots an entirely random nationality.
f) Make all starlets and idiots an entirely random nationality, but make sure no nation is picked twice.
g) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality, where both nationalities are picked at random.
h) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality, where both nationalities are picked at random, but no nation is ever picked twice.
i) Split the starlets and idiots in half, between two nationalities, so that both country could play 11 starlets if they wanted.
j) Other - please specify.
I'll start the voting (my vote doesn't count double!) with e - I like the idea that a small nation can get lucky by getting three starlets, but also that they wouldn't be scuppered by dual nationality, and all their players choosing to play for the bigger nation. I imagine a situation where Luxembourg get two strikers and a central midfielder and suddenly become a force, and I'd be interested to see what effect that has on co-efficients, and maybe even that nation's league.
h) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality, where both nationalities are picked at random, but no nation is ever picked twice.
Because it would be good to slightly alter the experiment rather than try the same experiment again. But I think a good idea would be to have Bandits affiliates across the world to see if players are more likely to choose to play for the country they are residing in rather than another one.
But anyway, it's good to see you back, kipfizh. Unfortunately, I wasn't on the forums when you ran both of the Bandits sign-ups; but I spent a couple of hours scrolling through them when I first joined the forums.
So...once again, it's good to see you back.
I'd like to say "A" just to see Englang get knocked out by penalties one more even with the starlets Jokes aside though I'd go with E & J coupled. Totally randomize the nationalities but make sure they are the smaller ones in different parts of the world. Maybe make a pool of 40-50 countries and randomize in between them so some may get lucky to have 2-3 starlets as well.
H) Would definitely be the most interesting as you would come up with COMPLETELY random results.
H) as said in previous post for increased randomness
Didn't follow the previous series, but i'm now up to speed after reading though the past two editions :P
Good to know that this will be back in the future
Spent all day reading this From start to finish.
Even greater by the fact its starting again. I believe its because i was reading
I vote for H.
I love randomness, it's just so.. random!
I reckon you should make each starlet random nationality, but only within the nations with very low co-efficients. As you mentioned, Kip, it would be interesting to see how smaller nations progressed, but if done at random, it will unfairly advantage one of the bigger nations - its unlikely any nation would be picked twice, and the highest ranked team with a starlet would have a huge advantage. If the starlets were split randomly between, lets say, the 50 or so starlets with the lowest status, it would make World Cups more interesting.
I dont know what you think of this (and I realise it could make your reports too long) but I'd be in favour of having a larger number of starlets - provide each of the teams with a larger squad so that more players are split between the nations.
I make it 220 nations on FM in total. If you set the bar at 100 ranking points, you would be splitting the players between approximately 35-40 nations (this is going on my game from 2021, but I doubt the numbers would be hugely different). Set it at 50, and you have around 20 nations. Would be great to see how much of a lift a couple of starlets would give a nation like Somalia, Aruba or Tonga. My recommendation would be that you should set it at the level which means that each nation would have, on average, two starlets. In practise, some will have none and others might have 4-5. I like this element of randomness, and it would be interesting to see how the distribution of high CA players varies amongst the nations who benefit. Does having two starlets from a country where there are very few players already in the database lead to having a team like Equatorial Guinea rapidly rising through the rankings? OOooooo I'm going to try this, it's exciting!
Id like to see whether having one starlet makes a huge difference though. Will we end up with World Cups between only teams who were originally given starlets?!
You need to consider the effect that nationalities have on work permits etc - if a starlet is (for example) Brazilian only, he won't break into the national team whilst he's still with the Bandits (at least for a few years) which will impact on his ability to gain a work permit. That could of course be another tweak to the game - these players would have to stay with the Bandits or move to a country which doesn't require work permits, as they wouldn't get a permit for a move to an English club.
My suggestion would be to split them between the eleven lowest ranked EU nations so they get two each, would be interesting to see how much that would allow these nations to challenge the established powers in Europe.
Awesome to see you back Kip! I can't wait to see the Bandits return!
My vote is for i) Split the starlets and idiots in half, between two nationalities, so that both country could play 11 starlets if they wanted..
I like this, we might see an idiots vs starlets world cup final! It would be great for those who are a fan of one or the other.
Ideally I like the idea of random countries, but the work permit is an issue. Unless you set them all to have English as a second nationality (since they've come through the youth academy of the clubs) but make sure they are declared for their main nation. Thereby having the best of both worlds! Voila!
The randomness would be fun, and the chance for Armenia, or similar, to end up with a couple of starlet strikers would be fun to see.
Wow, a revival!!
I would like to see;
j) All starlets and idiots are dual nationality. Main nationality is different for each and made up from the lowest 50-ish smallest nations in the game. Second nationality is then English for all. This would (hopefully) add an extra dimension to see if they follow their heritage and play for their small nation, or end up playing for England. If even half a dozen play for their home nation on the world stage it would be great to see if they could elevate their nation into the World Cup or other international tournaments.
Just wondering if there is any chance to know (If you know) or see a screenshot of how the premier league seasons went in the FM09 bandits.
SO frustrating reading it all and not knowing how they played in the premier league.
EIther way loved this experiment
Can't remember if I've previously posted, but this is by far my favorite thread on these forums and I've had it bookmarked for ages so I'm delighted to see kip's back!
With regards to the nationalities I'd love to divide the starlets up into groups and put them each into small nations to see how much they impact them. Maybe groups of 2-3 divided between 10 countries?
In order to get around the EU thing, give them English as a second nationality, but have them already declared for the small nation. Or even give them 1 cap each.
Summary: Option (j) and welcome back!
Hmm, at the moment I'm leaning towards a combination of your ideas. The consensus seems to be:
a) Randomness is good.
b) Dual nationality is more popular than single.
c) Low ranked nations should get them.
d) Work permit could be an issue.
So at the moment, the winning combination would be to pick dual nationality for each player, where one nationality is a low-ranking EU nation and the other is a low-ranking nation from somewhere else in the world.
The alternative is to randomly pick one low-ranking nation from anywhere in the world (including EU), declare them for that nation, but give them English as another nationality. But most of you seem to be preferring the dual nationality.
Amazing. Kip hasn't been on here for 8 months but somehow knows that this thread was upped and appears from nowhere? The man's obviously some kind of freaky, psychic googlebot!
Great to see you back though, and I'm positivily giddy at the news that this will eventually be returning as I was sure it was dead and gone for good. It's quite strange thinking back that it was 4 years ago now when the first one started, and I've followed it from pretty much the first day. I think I remember posting on the first page of the first experiment saying how interesting it sounded. I had no idea back then what a beast it would become. But anyway, I'm getting all nostalgic and I'm digressing.
e) Make all starlets and idiots an entirely random nationality. - This would be my vote for the next experiment. Because at the end of the day it is an AI experiment, and the original provided a lot of insight into the workings of some aspects of the AI. Stuff that was taken onboard and improved for future iterations of the game. And this is the option that gives the most balance experiment imo. As you have pointed out, you could get a very small nation ending up with 2 or 3 starlets, and it would be very interesting to see the effects this would have on the game world. Similarly, you could end up with a medium nation - someone like Belgium - who have 2 or 3 idiots. Again it would be interesting to see the impact these players have on the national team. They will be too good to not be picked, but will their talent be enough to improve an average national team, or will their bad influence make the team worse overall?
But whatever option you go with I can't wait.
No, in all seriousness, it wasn't a coincidence - 5ergio pointed me in this direction - I'd love to claim psychic powers but I wouldn't want to be as much of a fraud as.....well, those who claim psychic powers.
Just to let you know kipfizh that using the Advanced Rules of the editor it is possible to change the work permit settings.
You could always split up the players so that they are equally distriputed between each continent. That way we could see the Bandits having all the major International trophies.
Fantastic news about FM12 experiment.
My opininion about nationality - dual, with first being fully random, between any nation in the world, and second nationality English (but not declared for England, unless first nationality is drawn to be English).
Seconded - but I'd vote for the 2nd nationality to be any EU country, but the player to be declared for the small nation. I've started a similar experiment just focussed on the effect on the country. The starlets are still young, and havent broken in, but will report back on my findings on where teams like Samoa, Andorra and the US Virgin Islands are. I got round the work permit issue easily - there is an editor option to add certain nations to the "EU" for specific country, so for the purposes of my game, the following nations are all part of the EU as far as England is concerned:So at the moment, the winning combination would be to pick dual nationality for each player, where one nationality is a low-ranking EU nation and the other is a low-ranking nation from somewhere else in the world.
Sint Maarten
American Samoa
Papua New Guinea
St Lucia
St Pierre & Miquelon
French Guiana
Northern Mariana
San Marino
St Martin
Turks & Caicos Islands
US Virgin Islands
So far, there seems to be very little impact on the nations except that the grey players and regens tend to start having the same names as the starlets (as I set all their first names as "Legend", there are a lot of people called this now!). Once the regens start playing for the senior international sides, I think things will start to change. Its probably the easiest way to get around this work permit issue. Realistic it aint as much as the last one, but is realism really what we're after here?
Last edited by GreyedOutMan; 03-06-2011 at 14:07.
kip is back!
I'll go with what most others have gone for.
The kids are starting to make their mark on the international scene now - will let you know how much difference it makes. Will they qualify for 2014? Doubt it....
Just starting to move up the rankings, though, these boosted teams. Andorra have so far been the biggest movers. All of those countries were in the bottom screen of the world rankings originally - from rank 187 downwards. Andorra are now ranked 169. Hard to see why they've moved up. They've only beaten Chinese Taipei, Moldova and Kuwait since the game started, and managed just one point in their European Championship qualifying group. To be honest, the funny names are the biggest difference to the game I've seen so far. Nothing dramatic, but again, the legends are only 15/16.
EDT: None of the teams who were allocated legends made it into the 2nd, league phase of North American qualifying for 2014. Wonder how long it will take for them to improve significantly.....this might suggest that the legends are too diluted, but they are still young....
Last edited by GreyedOutMan; 03-06-2011 at 16:57.
I've been waiting for this day for so long
Hi guys! In honour of kip I made a FM2010 version for myself but I put all the starlets (40 something of them) as either Andorra, Luxembourg, San Marino, Armenia, Azerbaijan(spelling), Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, Albania and Malta. Andorra and San Marino got GK, LB, CB, RB, RM, LM, CM and ST all of an orginal 150 CA at the age of 16. Andorra just qualified for the World Cup 2010 and lost all 3 games in it whilst San Marino came about 5th in their group.
Luxembourg got the same but 125CA LB, RB, RM, LM and got quite close to qualification on both occasions. Armenia got the same again but LB, RB were 125 CA and RM was 200. They missed out on qualification for Euro 2012 by being the worst second place points scorer.
Azerbaijan and Faroe Islands only got a CB, CM and ST all at 125 CA and came 2nd bottom in qualifiying both times. Liechtstein were meant to get a CB, CM and ST at 200 CA but they dont get to play for Liechtenstein due to cpyright (i think). Malta got CM, CB and ST all at 150 CA and did slightly better than the Faroes and Azerbaijan. Albania got the 4 idiots and did nothing special again.
Note: All players had height 210
The reason for this lack of progress (in my view) is that the AI mangers for these nations are so bad that they dont always play the starlets and rather leave them on the bench, and when they need a win against lets say Belarus, they would rather hang on for the draw instead of going for the win. Another problem is that injuries and suspensions do come round quite regularly and effect each game, making the nations very inconsistent. However, they could probably beat anyone on their day and it is very interesting to watch.
Now I have just started a FM2011 version and am 1 season through I made an extra 21 players (there is now a duplicate button in the editor for players ) who can all play any position but GK. Added to that I made every starlet have 20 finishing, composure, jumping and heading to see if it had any effect. I also adjusted the players with 200 CA to 175 CA and the ones with 125 CA to 130 CA, and moved all Maltese/Liechtenstein/Albanian players to Azerbaijan/ Faroe Islands. Yet again the nations have been very inconsistent even the likes of San Marino who have 13 starlets.... the only 3 nations with a hope of qualifying are Armenia, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan for Euro 2012. However, I am interested to see what the future holds.
So my advive/ opinion for your 2012 version would be: Assuming you have the same amount of starlets again next year put them all in two lower ranked nations, maybe stronger ones than I did or you could put them in different continents which would be interesting as well.
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask . Sorry for bad spelling/ grammar I am in a rush!
Oh and... thanks for such a great read Kip
One of the most interesting things about your experiments are their ability to explore the unknown. We found out the idiots' ability to disrupt a team in the first experiment, the ability of a player played in the wrong position to flop even if they were unbelievably talented, and in the second experiment, the ability of a rich chairman to bankroll success with stupid wages, and the failure of idiots to ever reach their abilities, so on and so forth.
It would be fascinating to see how the starlets can benefit their various nations. Can one single starlet bring Argentina/Holland to the top of the world, or will they still fall behind Spain, Brazil etc? Can a starlet dig a rubbish team out of the mire, like San Marino? If so, which position? Does a world class goalkeeper enable a poor team to "do a Greece", and succeed by lucking out on penalties? Or do you need a midfield general who can close out opposition attacks, and spray passes to less talented compatriots with enough space to get the ball down and score? Or do you need a top striker who can take on an entire team and decimate them, outnumbering the goals let in by the hapless defenders?
If one of those options is going to tell us more about FM, I suspect it has to be option (e). Option (f) is very similar, but prevents us from having the possibility of two players combining, which gives us yet another dimension.
Very much looking forward to the coming developments Kip
11 starlets (one in each position) in one major nation such as England, Spain, Italy etc
5 starlets (varied positions) in a medium nation (Austria, Hungary etc)
3 starlets (one defender, one midfielder and one attacker) in a small nation (Estonia, Montenegro etc)
1 starlet in a tiny nation (Liechtenstein, Andorra, San Marino etc)
5 starlets (varied positions) in a tiny nation
1 starlet in a medium nation
and the same for the idiots (that's 26 of each idiot.) I'd suggest doing this all in Europe as there's more variation in the quality of nations there than any other region, plus it would help with the work permit issue.
As another variation without actually using the starlets or idiots it might be interesting to remove all the players with a PA over say 130 from one major nation, just to see how they bounce back as regens come through. (My preference for this would be France )
snooty_jim and others, very well argued case. I think you touch on a particularly valuable point, which is the variety of things we can find out. The desire to see what effect stars had on San Marino doesn't actually mean all 22 starlets have to be at poor nations - a handful will be enough to see what effect they have.
So, perhaps I'll write a little bit of code (it's what I do, after all), that takes all the names and assign them to random countries, and run that in a loop until at least one country has two or more (just so we don't have 26 distinct nations, it'll be fun if SOMEONE has an advantage). Then, I'll either give all the players a second nationality of English, but declare them for their chosen nation, or fiddle with the EU settings, depending on how the new editor works.
The selected countries might affect which countries I run on full detail - would a Turkish star return to his homeland if the league was fully available?
Ok, next poll:
This one is regarding the idiots. I won't disclose my plans for how many, positions etc, because that's all set in my mind, but I do want to make them more interesting than they were in FM09. Just to recap, in FM07 they were superb players who fell out with everyone, but had the ability to play well. It meant they travelled around a lot and never really tasted success, but their raw talent was such that every struggling club was willing to 'give them a go'. In FM09, all the players started with 150 CA and 200 PA, and the idiots actually got worse year on year, because a greater link was made between personality and training.
As a result, in FM09, they were nigh on useless. No-one got on with them, but their lack of progression meant that they would be doomed to a life of mediocrity. All valuable info to learn, but not very interesting.
This year, they will change again. They will still be stunningly talented, highly controversial, disloyal hackers and divers, who dislike the Bandits, each other and anyone who isn't a 'yes man'. But, and this is a big but, I'm considering making it so that despite all their flaws, they are actually hard working players, with the rationale that even with their idiotness, they are self-aware and selfish enough to know that they need to put in some yards.
So here are some options. Again, pick your favourite, or suggest something else.
a) Make them as FM07 and FM09, and see how the game handles them now.
b) Maximise their workrate and determination, to make them work at their own game, but otherwise make them as FM07 and FM09.
c) Make two factions - half of them a), half of them more hard-working, determined by equally controversial and disloyal. Make both factions like everyone else in their faction, and hate the other side.
d) Other....
I'd go with c. I'm pretty sure FM12 will treat the idiots just as in FM09 as they will not give their bests but to track a few players that can become world beaters waste their careers in mediocrity is just as entertaining. On the other hand, we should definitely have a few self aware idiots that knows they have to train to be good but they are controversial as much as they are hard working
I'd go with half-half, i.e. Option C.
A hard-working but controversial player would be like Tevez, wouldn't it? You can't argue that he puts his head down and gives his all during games, but he just can't keep his mouth shut and stop complaining...
Agree with the two above. Option C for me too.
It'll not only be more fun if you keep it from us, (at least initially) so we don't know which idiots will work hard, and which won't. But it also offers another level of comparison to see how the game handles extremes.
BenArsenal - Hard working controversial would surely be much more of a Balotelli? No-one doubts he's brilliant, and has got better, but he remains a true knob. Similar, I guess, with Barton, Cassano and the like. Whereas the otherend of the 'idiot-spectrum' are players like Jermaine Pennant (though he's turning full-circle), who never reach their lauded potential, and perhaps Axel Witsel is getting that way. Nigel de Jong also springs to mind, but his off-field antics aren't reported on much...
So with the two, we could see a Balotelli/Gazza version of an idiot versus a Witsel/Paul Merson version - never quite getting there, but still being quality in their own way
I know you have already made you decision of how the players get their nationality, which includes making sure players are eligible for work permits, but I think a completely random method has merit, as if players end up coming from a non-EU background, it would be interesting to see how that impacts their career, whether they stay in England to gain a dual nationality or move abroad to a league without work permit rules - as you said, this experiment is all about seeing how extreme situations are handled - in this case having a star player who is having trouble getting a work permit! Therefore, I would vote for (e) or (g)
As far as the idiots dilema goes, I would be leaning towards (c), again to see what we can learn from both batches of idiots
Option C for me too. Good to see this will be back. Remember finding the FM07 thread when the players were at their peak and catching up with it over the course of a few days, slowing down as I got closer to the latest posts so I wouldn't 'finish it too soon', a habit I have when reading a particularly good book
Option C for me
Think it would be interesting to see how much the engine has changed in regards to how it calculates work rate, training and a rise in CA.
Either option C
or D
And have it so that you set them all up as idiots and then have their work rate as a random stat, which means then when you load you may not have exactly half and half, but a random selection of players who may have high work rate, average, low and stupidly low.
just nice to see Kip back and a few other familiar contributors, interested to see what happens next
I'd go with option C. It would be good to see how's selfishness vs lazyness in FM
For what it's worth, option C
I have an additional idea for the experiment:
Make some "celebrities"; players with extremely high reputations but are absolutely useless at football. Make some of them come from big nations such as England, Brazil and Spain and the others will come from minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Macau (China PR) and Anguilla. It would help figure out many things about the game, such as whether one player's reputation can affect attendances and it will also be intriguing and interesting to observe.
So i am a little late to the "party" but i got a feeling to check out this board after months and months of not doing so. So yay "They're back"
Anyways i vote C and not letting us know which batch of Bandits are which until they retire.
This is still going on?
That gets the nod from me. More "fun" factor and also the greatest scope for insight.c) Make two factions - half of them a), half of them more hard-working, determined by equally controversial and disloyal. Make both factions like everyone else in their faction, and hate the other side.
Hope you are keeping well Kip.
I don't know if I'm the only one, but my main focus in reading this was on the teams performances. After about 3 seasons you simply know what's coming at te players. The idiots keep stagnating and act like idiots, while the bandits slowly build their monumental carreers. After the third season I only read the team reports. And I bet that keeping up with al the statistics is a hell of a lot of work, wich - imho - was unnecessary.
I've read alot of stories over the past years here, this was one of the best of them.
Welcome Back Kip!
Option C gets my vote, as its really like having the Best, the worst and the few in between.
In regards to the players' nationality, I have a feeling that one good player wont make much of a difference in the larger sense (World Cups, etc) but it definitely does in the qualification stages. This is what I notice in my save anyway. The lower nations and randomizing a loop to have 2-3 for a couple of nations sound like a better idea than randomizing everyone as it gives them a chance to compete in the major competitions, not just qualifying rounds. Otherwise, it will be a case of lost in the crowd of international obscurity.
Really great to see you back Kip... Bring on FM12!
Oh my, seems I've been away from this forum for a bit too long. Welcome back, Kip!
I can't wait for this new experiment, it's gonna be awesome. And I like the idea of both random nations, to see what effect the players have on their chosen nations, and of split-dedication idiots, it will be interesting to see how much a hard-working self-absorbed loudmouth can achieve
I would vote for letting the game treat the idiots as the same as FM09, I would like to see if things differ at all, although I'm definitely outnumbered here...........
Where are we on this experiment now we know a little about FM12?
Yeh is Kip still alive?
Kip hasnt posted for 3.5 months. Planning for the challenge or given up? (Just thought I'd bump this in case he's forgotten about us :P)
He never starts these things until the 2nd patch - expect news around the turn of the year....
Don't worry, I'm still here, and still very much doing the experiment. As civilservant said, it'll be around or just after the turn of the year, patch dependant. Of course, if there are few issues with the game post first patch, I'll do it on that.
As for features, I honestly haven't looked at what is in FM12 yet. Got into reading here again before the SEGA hacking saga, so took a break to play my own game (FM09, no less!). Will start reading now...
Hmm, so having had a look at the new features, I don't see too much that affects the experiment, apart from some bits that might improve things, such as a more accurate representation of countries and their ability to change in strength over time.
I'm actually more interested in the editor, and whether any of the changes give me more scope for playing around. One thing I am interested in - did anyone add extra leagues below the bottom default playable one? And is it effective?
People added leagues down to level 10 for FM10, and it worked pretty well. There were real-world problems with the league that meant those mods didn't work so well for FM11, but it shouldn't have those problems this time round.
are you thinking of starting the bandits at a much lower level this time around then? might be interesting, although I could see it getting a bit dull if they need twelve promotions just to get to the Premiership...
That'll teach me for giving up and unbookmarking
If it counts, I think dual-nationality, but at very low levels (the Malta/Faroe/Andorra's of this world). If you fancy potential to pop here and there then there are enough EU nations these days to have a tiny EU nation and a tiny 'other' nation.
Given that you'll have 22 idiots and 22 starlets (if memory serves, which it might not) it might be worth putting four per nation otherwise you'll quickly end up with guys in those borderline-good nations like Bulgaria and Mexico.
One of the big gains this year will be the ability to add leagues, so if a player moves to Grampus Eight, it's only a click away from following them properly.
Hooway the Bandits
Indeed the "add-remove" league option will be lovely to chase players wherever they are
interesting read, but way too many variables. plus, the sheriffs were really only bound to get good players. all they had were poor players to start with, but could easily overcome that with correct spending, which they did.
a better experiment would be to have the Bandits have wonderkids with terrible management, but all of them have minimum fee release clause of 100M. The Sheriffs would have terrible players, but good management, and no fee release clauses.
Now, you may be thinking that the Sheriffs could easily just get all good players, which they will, but the Bandits have already quality players. it would be more of a good players + bad management vs. bad players + good management. the one you did was good players + good management vs. bad players + good management.
I'm thinking about doing one similar, or a save where you have two groups of wonderkids, but one group is given a consistency rating of 20 and important matches of 1, and the other would have the a consistency rating of 1 and an important match rating of 20. Ho I could explain in depth but what would you think?
consistency vs. inconsistency. would the important matches factor come into play, during promotions, playoffs, and regular league games, or would consistency have a larger role.
just some thoughts. I have a billion ideas.
The reason that good management was used was the original Bandits thread they never really got anywhere because they had consistently terrible managers.
haha i just started to read this for the first time last night and ended up staying up until 2am :\
Waiting patiently on the next edition
I would suggest lowering the starting CA to around 100 and (if you start the Bandits/Sheriffs on level 10 or something) maybe put the starlets in other clubs higher up.
I would find it more interesting following their development not being 100% sure they would max out their potential...


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I added a link column in my picture library and populated with links. Then added SP OOTB picture library slide show web part. Both pictures and it's description are showing. I need the link to be on the image so when user click on image it goes to whatever I put in the link field.
This is not OOTB functionality of the slide show webpart. To accomplish this behaviour you can extend the webpart to add the functionality or you can set the link with jQuery/SPServices.
Regards, Anita
Picture Library SlideShow web part class is marked a sealed, so there is no way to extend it.
But it could be customized on the client side, the solution presented below demonstrates how to customize SlideShow control.
Load custom Picture Library fields
The following fields are loaded via SPQuery from Picture Library in Picture Library SlideShow web part:
So, in order to specify custom field for picture link we need to load it also. Loading of additional fields could happen during Slideshow initialization on the client side.
Specify custom field value for picture link
After custom fields are loaded, we need only to modify custom picture link values.
The code below demonstrates how to override
For implementation details please follow this blog post.

subset: commoncrawl


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TEMPLE (November 28, 2012)-You might cringe at the idea of having your blood drawn or being hooked up to an IV line. Many have had the fear of needles since they were kids, but one revolutionary device being used at McLane Children's Hospital Scott & White in Temple could be preventing that fear ten fold.
Since September, the hospital has been using a device called Vein Viewer. With infrared light, the Vein Viewer projects vein real-time on the skin.
It's clinically proven to reduce the number of attempts to start an IV line and the time it takes to start an IV line by 50 percent.
Cassie Campbell, Nurse Manager for Emergency Medicine, says the Vein Viewer is her best friend.
"It's probably the best thing a nurse can have around," Campbell said.
"The children in the hospital only get one stick with the needle instead of 2 or 3."
The device is especially valuable for children with hard to find veins. McLane Children's Hospital Scott & White can use it on any patient they receive.
"It eliminates the pain and the anticipation," Campbell said.
"Especially for children getting stuck with an IV line."
Scott & White's Memorial Hospital has older models of the device but only in their Interventional Radiology department.
Could they start using it more there? Administrators say anything is possible.
Regardless, It certainly has made an impact at McLane Children's Hospital Scott & White.
"The children can come in and know that we can treat them and help them," Campbell said.
"It's that, instead of being the place known for causing pain."


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Top 100 Hot Rods That Changed the WorldWritten by on January 29, 2008 Contributors: Pat Ganahl Archives To celebrate our 60th anniversary, the HOT ROD staff and a few industry friends help us to choose the 100 most influencial vehicles in the history of hot rodding. You'll cheer and jeer, we're sure.
This seemed like a good idea. At first. Then we got into the actual machinations of selecting 100 top cars that were worthy of HOT ROD's 60th anniversary issue. We made list after list, anticipating every possible rant that could come from any direction. There would be no escaping a certain level of wrath, but in the end, we justified our actions by picking cars based on a very specific criterion. In a word: influence. The cars we chose had to make a difference to the gearhead hobby, the racing sport, or the people in them. They had to be trend starters or fad killers, landmarks of style, or shepherds of technology that put a bend in the road of hot rodding.
To narrow the scope, we also limited the picks to hot rods (a catchall that includes customs, race cars, and more) built in 1948 or later, the date that coincided with this magazine's first issue. So there will be no early Henry Ford speedsters or the like, and just one very famous stock production car. That leaves out Hemi Super Stockers, Shelby Mustangs, and COPO Camaros. Get over it. You'll also think of at least another 100 famous or popular cars that are not on the list-there's nothing here from Tony Nancy, the Alexander Brothers, Dean Jeffries, Bill Cushenberry, or another several dozen builders on your mind. Why? Remember the dividing line: influence. We couldn't name a car by any of those guys that changed the world more significantly than the 100 cars in these pages. For the same reason, don't look for legendary rods as the Pierson coupe or the Niekamp roadster, because we couldn't argue that they changed more lives than such clods as the General Lee, the Bandit Trans Am, or even the American Graffiti coupe. Fame trumps grace every time, and if fads had anything to do with style, then there'd be thousands of CadZZilla kits and just one Meyers Manx dune buggy.
Since we didn't care to shoulder this responsibility alone, we called on some friends-though none can be blamed for our final selections or our ranking order. Pat Ganahl, former editor of HOT ROD, Street Rodder, Rod & Custom, and Rodder's Journal, helped us with the significant rods and customs. Dave Wallace is a former staffer of Drag News and HOT ROD and editor of Petersen's Drag Racing who enters the Drag Racing Hall of Fame at the Garlits Museum this year, and he helped with the top drag cars of the past 60 years. Our eldest staffer, Detroit Editor Bill McGuire, focused on the icons of his generation, while 40-somethings Kinnan and Freiburger meddled with the street-machine era. Once our list was compiled, we adjusted it based on comments from Pete Chapouris, Larry Erickson, and Dave Ross (Design Manager, GM Performance Division).
So it's not a perfect list, but it's pretty freakin' close. Your flames will be given due attention if you send them to email@example.com. Meanwhile, enjoy HOT ROD's 60th anniversary celebration of the 100 most influential cars of our time. -David Freiburger
More Photos From This Article View Slideshow
100 ROBERT WILLIAMS '32 FORD
There are plenty of precedents for the "done in primer," beater-rod style that is so prevalent today, but Williams' torn-fender, red-oxide, Eights & Aces version of his gennie steel Deuce roadster is certainly one. Now it's transformed into the amazing chartreuse and purple Prickly Heat art statement, which is well worth a look, too. -Pat Ganahl99 MAGAN/WILLIAMS GOLDEN THINGS
Hot rods don't have to have wheels. Ski and drag boats with big, hot-rodded V-8 powerplants and lots of tuck-and-roll upholstery were splashed on HRM's covers dozens of times, especially in the early '60s. The Doc Magan and Jack Williams' Hallet Golden Thing (seen here from the Feb. '62 issue) and Rudy Ramos' Rayson-Craft X-P (Mar. '61) both ran blown and injected Keith Black Hemis and ran up to 150 mph in the quarter. This is where KB and Eddie Hill got their bones, and why upholsterer Tony Nancy's emblem was a sea horse. -Pat Ganahl98 STEVE LISK'S HEMI CHALLENGER
Even today it's rare to see a Lenco transmission in a real street car. Imagine the wide-open eyeballs back in 1977 when Steve Lisk brought out his radical Lenco-shifted, Hemi-powered Challenger. Along with Kollofski's '55 and Sullivan's Nova, the Lisk Challenger can deservedly be given credit for inspiring all the Pro Street cars to follow. -Rob Kinnan97 RUGIRELLO/ROUCH MUSTANG II
Before Cactus Jack became "Jack Roush," Baskerville ventured to his snowy Detroit shop to drive his evil street race Mustang II, built for owner Joe Rugirello with a huge-for-the-day 509-inch big-block Ford. Call it the first sleeper, the first street racer tested in the snow, or simply the baddest Mustang II ever, but it spawned interest in hot rodding "wrong-year" Mustangs and big-inch motors for the street. Oh yeah, it ran 9.50s back when a 12-second car was hot stuff. -Rob Kinnan96 ROD SABOURY'S '63 CORVETTE
As the Pro Street genre was gaining steam in the early '80s, Rod Saboury raised the bar with his radical, big-tired '63 Corvette show car. But what really ticked off the Bloomington Gold crowd was that he started with a perfect, concourse-ready fuelie split-window and cut it to shreds. The result was the most awesome Pro Streeter of its time, and also a progenitor to his line of wicked-fast (though streetable) Corvette Pro Street race cars. -Rob Kinnan95 MAX BALCHOWSKY'S OLD YELLER I
Max Balchowsky and his wife Ina were the proprietors of Hollywood Motors, where characters like James Dean and Tommy Ivo often hung out. Their specialty was radical engine swaps ("We can put anything in anything," the sign read), but their favorite pastime was pulling the noses of the snooty West Coast sporty car establishment. Old Yeller I, an assortment of junkyard debris powered by one of Max's killer Buick nailheads, embarrassed many an expensive European sports car and inspired a generation of hot rodders to go road racing. Special thanks to Ernie Nagamatsu, the owner of Old Yeller II, for this photo of the original. -Bill McGuire94 JACK STEWART'S '50 OLDSMOBILE
It wasn't the first-that would be the '50 Ford done for Ron Dunn-but the best-known of the Valley Custom sectioning jobs was the Polynesian, a '50 Olds hardtop the shop built for Jack Stewart of Canton, Ohio. Unlike the heavy, bulbous Mercs of the early '50s, this car had a slim, clean, European look, sending the custom-car world a whole new message. Miraculously the Polynesian has survived and was recently restored. -Bill McGuire93 RON COURTNEY'S X-51 FORD
When this red, sectioned, large-finned ex-shoebox Ford hit small-magazine covers in 1958, people thought it might be the new T-bird. That's just what self-taught designer/builder Courtney wanted. Eschewing custom trends and working alone at home, he redesigned his boxy '51 Ford into a style that still works (and exists) today.-Pat Ganahl92 LARRY ERNST'S '51 CHEVROLET BEL AIR
The chopped Bel Air that George and Sam Barris built for Father Larry Ernst, a Catholic priest in Ohio, was an important early job for their Los Angeles custom shop and earned magazine coverage far and wide. Even more importantly, the Bel Air then went home to spread the lead sled gospel east of the Mississippi. Later restyled by Barris, the groundbreaking custom exists in both versions today: The original Ernst Bel Air is restored to its first (blue) state, while the second, flashier version has been carefully cloned. -Bill McGuire
91 THE CHEAP THRILLS DART
Like Jeff Smith's '65 Chevelle that follows it, choosing David Freiburger's Cheap Thrills Dart (HOT ROD Mar.-May '94) for this list seems a bit self-serving, but there isn't a week that goes by that we don't hear from someone who was inspired by that project. Built for less than two grand with a performance goal of a 12-second quarter-mile e.t, the project was very successful and even more popular-hose-clamp trans mount and all. -Rob Kinnan90 JEFF SMITH'S '65 CHEVY MALIBU
Jeff Smith has been editor of Car Craft, HOT ROD, and Chevy High Performance, each time in a period of great affluence for the magazines he shaped. At each title, his multipurpose, ratty '65 Chevelle has seen plenty of ink from the dragstrip to the road courses to the open-road races, and also on the Power Tour(r), showing readers that a musclecar can do more than just drag race. The car was Jeff's inspiration to push the Pro Touring trend, which he named along with Mark Stielow. -David Freiburger89 JIM LYTLE'S RACE CAR
A cool combination of homebuilt hot rod and race car, the quickest (9.31), fastest (163) full-bodied car of its era (1964) cleverly enclosed '34 rails and an Allison V-12 with a one-piece, lift-off, all-fiberglass shell. According to builder-driver Jim Lytle, Al Turner later told him about studying the mock Tudor at a car show in the winter of 1964. Perhaps coincidentally, Turner's '66 Mercury team introduced flip-top Funny Cars two years later. -Dave Wallace88 THOM TAYLOR/GREG FLUERY FRANKENSTUDE
Originating from the mind of designer Thom Taylor and then created by Greg Fleury at Fleury Hot Rods (Prior Lake, Minnesota), Frankenstude was the Studebaker version of CadZZilla and took the Dare to Be Different theme to a new level. The body is an amalgam of Studie models, with a '51 front end, a '53 hood, a '54 top, and what are now called Lambo doors, but it's what's under the skin that separated it from other bullet-nose cars of its day: a tube chassis with an all-wheel-drive powertrain urged forward by an LT1 EFI motor. -Rob Kinnan87 CHARLES CARPENTER'S '55 CHEVY
In 1984, when word got around that some kid's old Chevy was running 180s, spewing nitrous, and beating up on dragsters, the print media turned its spotlight south to IHRA's open-qualifying, dial-in Top Sportsman class (copied from AHRA's Top Comp of the '70s). Even before his '55 became the first in the 7s, Charles Carpenter was king of an e.t. bracket destined to deliver the first 200-mph door cars and spawn Pro Modified. -Dave Wallace86 THE CORTOPASSI BROTHERS' GLASS SLIPPER
HOT ROD's Aug. '55 cover car was significant as a homebuilt fiberglass dragster that was the first to have such features as an aluminum frame and an enclosed cockpit. It first raced with a flathead Ford, which ran 181 mph at Bonneville in 1955, and later was powered by a small Chevy. HOT ROD later selected it for inclusion in FIA standing-kilo record attempts at March Air Force Base . In 1957, the Slipper was named Most Beautiful Competition Car at the Grand National Roadster show. -David Freiburger85 JUNGLE JIM LIBERMAN'S VEGA FUNNY CAR
There's no business like show business. The cover of HOT ROD for Feb. '73 features a studio shot of Jungle Jim Liberman's Vega Funny Car. But Jungle himself is nowhere in view-instead, a smiling Jungle Pam Hardy, his companion and teammate, dominates the foreground. What's up with that? An outtake with Jungle is seen here. Liberman, who died in a road accident in 1977, was without dispute the greatest showman drag racing ever had. Drivers including John Force name the beloved Jungle Jim as their greatest influence in racing. But Jungle Pam was a show all her own. -Bill McGuire84 THE DODGE CHARGERS
Drag racing's biggest deal ever (reportedly a quarter-million 1964 dollars), the Dodge Chargers were the first supercharged factory experimentals using Wedge engines before the Hemi was available. The program went bust when spare parts petered out midsummer, but not before Jim Johnson and Jimmy Nix had broken into the 10s, topped 140, and inspired countless blown "stockers" to come. Nationwide bookings from March to August 1964 coincided with between-race displays at nearby Dodge dealerships. (The surviving Nix car is owned by Frank Spittle.) -Dave Wallace83 COOK & BEDWELL/BANEY, FENN & ARNOLD DRAGSTER
Never has one lap changed a motorsport like Emery Cook's 166.97-9 mph faster than anyone had ever gone-on 98 percent nitro. The prototype for Chassis Research's mail-order dragster kits is pictured on that fateful day at Lions: February 3, 1957. Some SoCal strips promptly banned all fuels but pump gas, as did NHRA (until 1964). Cliff Bedwell's chassis began life as the Yeakel Cadillac Special of builder Scotty Fenn, backer Lou Baney (standing, right), and driver Kenny Arnold. -Dave Wallace
82 JACK CHRISMAN'S '29 SEDAN
This heavily chopped, full-fendered, beautiful maroon, wickedly fast drag sedan built by Jack and Art Chrisman (first with a flathead, then a Chrysler Hemi) makes it on its own, as do other Chrisman machines. But what stunned readers when it appeared in the Dec. '54 HRM was the grille insert filled with frenetic Von Dutch pinstriping, not to mention the flying eyeball on the back. This was the hot rod world's first publicized exposure to Dutch, and we still haven't recovered. -Pat Ganahl81 CRAIG BREEDLOVE'S SPIRIT OF AMERICA
When Craig Breedlove's J47-powered land speed racer hit the cover of HOT ROD in Oct. '63, hot rodders stepped into the space age. Intelligent and articulate, Breedlove demonstrated that rodders weren't all hoods and greaseballs, and the car he built, essentially a jet fighter on wheels, proved it. The Spirit of America went 407 mph, kicking off an incredible years-long Bonneville speed war between Breedlove and Art Arfons that will never be duplicated. -Bill McGuire80 SADD-TEAGUE-BENTLEY ROADSTER
Al Teague is perhaps best known for his 400-mph streamliner, but it was the roadster that really made waves. Partnered with George Bentley and the Sadd Brothers, he raced a roadster, a '29 on '32 rails, with a blown Chrysler Hemi. It was the first real (highboy) roadster to run over 230, 240, and 250 mph at Bonneville, setting the record again in 1972 at 258 mph. The car saw action all the way to 2002, when Bentley died. -Rob Kinnan79 KENNY BERNSTEIN'S 300-MPH TOP FUEL DRAGSTER
It's a simple truth that e.t. wins drag races, but for winning friends and influencing people there is still nothing like throwing down The Big Number. The biggest number of all was put up on the board by Kenny Bernstein in March 1992, when his Budweiser King Top Fueler ran 301.70 mph at the Gatornationals in Gainesville, Florida. The feat won Bernstein the title King of Speed and solidified the reputation of his crewchief, Dale Armstrong, as one of the top nitro tuners of all time. -Bill McGuire78 DON HARDY'S V-8 VEGA
The early '70s were bleak times, with magazines pushing vans, Pintos, and Vegas. The only good news came when Car Craft ran a story in the Feb. '72 issue about Don Hardy Race Cars installing a small-block V-8 into a Vega. Next thing you know, his phone was burning with orders, dealerships were selling conversions from the showroom floor, and a craze was secured. A few of the Hardy-designed components are still sold via www.V8monza.com. -David Freiburger77 AK MILLER'S CABALLO DE HIERRO
It means "The Iron Horse." Ak Miller's road-racing hot rod was based on a modified '50 Ford chassis, a 394ci Olds engine, and a '27 Model T body. It did not inspire many direct imitations, but as it raced the American and European production cars in the '53-'54 Mexican Road Races (La Carrera Panamericana), it allowed hot rodders to throw their fists in the air, proving the hobby worthy of international recognition. -David Freiburger76 PHIL COOL'S '32 ROADSTER
 You just have to scan a photographic list of Oakland's America's Most Beautiful Roadster winners to see the total paradigm shift when this straight orange, blown big-block-powered, mag-wheel-and-slick-shod, traditional highboy hot rod stepped up in 1978. It had the same effect when new editor Lee Kelley plastered it on our cover (in place of vans and V-6s) that July. Need we say more? -Pat Ganahl75 & 74 PETE CHAPOURIS' AND JIM JACOBS' '34 COUPES
Roadsters-only-were the first hot rods. Then, at the beginning of the street rod era, no one would dare cut Henry's vintage tin. So the Nov. '73 R&C "barnyard" cover with Chapouris' fendered and flamed and Jacobs' yellow lakes-style, very chopped coupes was a direct challenge, a throwing down of the gauntlet: Chop these things and drive 'em! This cover also led to Chapouris' and Jacobs' partnership and things like repro chopped coupe bodies, not to mention The California Kid TV movie. -Pat Ganahl73 THE FUTURESHOCK VAN
Hate them all you want, but vans were a huge part of the scene in the '70s and HOT ROD went out of its way to encourage the insanity. To represent them all, we chose the FutureShock van that graced the Aug. '76 cover (shown how it looks today, thanks to new owner Howard Furtak). At least this one had reasonably tasteful mods, as it was a joint project between BFGoodrich, Kenny Youngblood, and Car Craft (the shop, not the magazine) that had a Dick Guldstrand suspension and a turbocharged small-block Chevy. -Rob Kinnan
72 & 71 CALVIN RICE'S AND MICKEY THOMPSON'S SLINGSHOTS
Previous pioneers had sat behind rear axles and Chryslers, but the world waited for Calvin Rice and Mickey Thompson to convincingly demonstrate the superiority of Hemi-powered slingshots. The two tangled at the inaugural NHRA Nationals (1954, pictured), which Rice opened with a flathead, then won with a Chrysler. Thompson's rail-the first single-engined car to run 150 mph-introduced the rollcage and the narrowed rearend to rails, while stimulating interest in streamlining. -Dave Wallace70 THE NO. 88 CHARGER DAYTONA MULE CAR
In considering the Chrysler winged Daytona and Superbird Stock Car racers, we knew one needed to be on the list. They capped off the era of ludicrous factory offerings for the promotion of racing and forced NASCAR into sanctions against the aero mods that effectively made the Hemi impractical, bringing small-blocks to the big ovals. We considered Richard Brickhouse's No. 99 Daytona, the first winged car to win a race ('69 Talladega 500) and Bobby Isaac's K&K Insurance car that famously secured records at Bonneville. But we selected the Cotton Owens/Buddy Baker No. 88 Charger Daytona factory mule, the one that was the first Stock Car ever to cut a 200-mph lap, accomplished at Talladega on March 24, 1970. -David Freiburger69 BOB CHANDLER'S BIG FOOT
This '74 F-250 (with a '79 body) began as a promotional stunt for Bob Chandler's four-wheel-drive shop andended up creating an entire monster truck craze that led to several sanctioning bodies and fans worldwide. Version 3 of the truck appeared on the Apr. '84 cover of HOT ROD. There have been 17 Big Foot trucks built since the first (shown here), all of them contributing significant developments to the sport of monster truck promotions and racing. -David Freiburger68 GEORGE MONTGOMERY'S '33 WILLYS
As everyone knows, Ohio was Gasser country in the '60s, and Ohio George Montgomery from Dayton was the reigning king of the Ohio Gasser contingent. From 1959 to 1967 his immaculately prepared '33 Willys dominated the supercharged ranks, first with a blown Cadillac wedged under the hood, then a small-block Chevy, and finally a 427 SOHC Ford. One of the smartest racers around, Ohio George didn't follow the pack; he led it. -Bill McGuire67 THE RAM CHARGERS' HIGH AND MIGHTY '49 PLYMOUTH
There is a reason that in the early '60s, suddenly every drag car sat like a frog on a hot rock, and here it is: the High and Mighty. A group of young Chrysler engineers who called themselves the Ram Chargers determined that raising the car's center of mass would produce more forward bite. Everyone copied. The Ramchargers would become even more influential as the nucleus of Chrysler's all-conquering NASCAR, drag racing, and musclecar programs throughout the '60s. -Bill McGuire66 MARCELLUS & BORSCH'S '23 FORD AA/FUEL ALTERED
First Fuel Altered in the 8s. First Fuel Altered in the 7s. First Fuel Altered to be driven dead sideways the entire 1,320 feet by a fun-loving narcoleptic lunatic who steered with one hand. Attention all photographers: The Marcellus & Borsch Winged Express is firing up. At a time when Fuel Altereds were dying out as Funny Cars took over, Al "Mousie" Marcellus and driver "One Hand" Willie Borsch breathed new life into the category by reminding everyone just how fearsome and primal these short-wheelbase monsters could be. -Bill McGuire65 & 64 STONE-WOODS-COOK'S SWINDLER A AND BIG JOHN MAZMANIAN'S WILLYS
While Ohio George held forth in the East, the chief West Coast combatants in the supercharged Gasser Wars of the '60s were Stone, Woods & Cook and Big John Mazmanian. SWC made the scene first, but soon Big John parked his Corvette and joined the Gasser ranks with a Willys done up in true Mazmanian style: candy-apple red and show-chromed to the max. SWC's Swindler A was immortalized as a Revell model kit, while Big John's red car set the standard for sharp-looking, hard-running door-slammers. -Bill McGuire63 MOONEYHAM & SHARP'S '34 FORD
Here it is, the working prototype for both the Fuel Altered and the Funny Car. The Mooneyham & Johnson '34 Ford started its career on the dry lakes powered by a flathead V-8. Al Sharp joined up a few years later to drop in his blown fuel Chrysler Hemis, and the team became known as Mooneyham & Sharp. When Mooneyham scared himself out of the driver's seat in 1960, Jungle Larry Faust took over, smoking the tires the entire quarter-mile. Fuel coupes would get faster as the years went on, but never more wicked than the No. 554. -Bill McGuire62 DENNIS VARNI'S AMBR '29
Many hot rods have multiple lives, some good, some bad, often with different owners. This one's been all good, with the same owner for several decades and a few hundred thousand miles. First built in 1971 as a trad, red, Bay Area highboy, it made the cover of R&C as "state of the art." By 1973 it was back on the R&C cover spraying water for the famous "tire test" issue. Then, fully rebuilt in a high-tech, smoothie-but still red-style, it copped the big Oakland trophy and another R&C cover in 1992. And Varni's still driving it. -Pat Ganahl
61 DARRYL STARBIRD'S PREDICTA '57 T-BIRD
Darryl Starbird was already making a name for himself as a groundbreaking customizer in Wichita, Kansas. But when his candy-blue, injected, Hemi-powered, big-finned, and bubbletopped Predicta '57 T-bird hit the Car Craft cover in 1960, it launched his rise to the deserved title of Bubble Top King. Outfitted with a TV, instrument pods, air conditioning, and joystick steering, this car epitomized '60s jet-age customizing. Starbird is still building wild show cars and staging some of the country's largest car shows. Best of all, he still has this one, in original candy-blue, running condition. -Pat Ganahl60 THE ALA KART
What started as Dick Peters' '29 roadster pickup was totally reformed in sheetmetal and lead by Barris and crew into the first full-on show rod in 1958. With its injected Hemi engine and fully plated, upholstered, and scallop-painted undercarriage, it was not really driveable. But it won the Oakland Show big trophy twice and was scaled in 11/425 plastic by AMT to spur a model car-building craze of the time. -Pat Ganahl59 SMOKEY YUNICK'S '66 NASCAR CHEVELLE
Yunick's slippery Chevelle never won a race, but it influenced NASCAR as much as any race car before or since. This one car was singularly responsible for the introduction of the NASCAR body template. And to this day, wherever bench racers meet and the subject invariably comes around to nefarious race cars, someone will always say, "How about that cheater Chevelle Smokey built. ...-Bill McGuire58 DICK SCRITCHFIELD'S (BOB MCGEE'S) '32 ROADSTER
When it appeared on the Oct. '48 cover of HOT ROD with owner Bob McGee driving, it was strikingly high-tech with hidden hinges, a smooth three-piece hood, one-piece rear deck, and superlow stance thanks to a C'd rear frame. But as Dick Scritchfield's, it led the new L.A. Roadster club outings, appeared in numerous '50s hot rod movies, set a record at El Mirage, got the first metalflake paint job as one of many magazine how-to experiments, and was one of the most-seen hot rods everywhere. -Pat Ganahl57 MICKEY THOMPSON'S CHALLENGER I
Bonneville, Friday morning, September 9, 1960: Mickey Thompson fired all four supercharged Pontiac engines and wheeled his homebrewed streamliner to 406.60 mph. He was seeking to overturn the long-standing absolute land speed record of 394.19 mph, set by Englishman John Cobb in 1947 in a gigantic machine powered by two Napier Lion aircraft engines. A broken driveshaft prevented a return run, but Thompson made his point: Hot rodders can get the job done. -Bill McGuire56 PETE CHAPOURIS' LIMEFIRE '32 ROADSTER
There's more story to this car than will ever be told, but the idea was to build a 'glass-bodied repro Deuce with off-the-shelf parts (including a strong B&M blown crate motor), run low-10 quarter-miles, drive anywhere, and make a strong (not bellybutton) statement inspired by the McMullen and Pollard flamed roadsters. It did all that, made the 75 Deuces list, and represents exemplary 'glass-bodied rods here. -Pat Ganahl55 BILLY GIBBONS' CADZZILLA
Billy Gibbons might not be the only person to make this list twice, but certainly he's the only one with a hot rod and a custom. And what a custom! This '48 Cad sedanette, designed by Larry Erickson and reshaped at Boyd Coddington's, at least equals the Hirohata Merc in both cutting-edge looks and bar-setting impact. Nothing short of the factory-built Holden dream car has surpassed it yet. -Pat Ganahl54 THE SO-CAL STREAMLINER
When hot rodders asked to run on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1949, they were told, "Your cars don't go fast enough, but try." World records were well over 200 mph. Lakesters were going 150-plus. But Alex Xydias pulled the belly tank off his So-Cal Spl., Dean Batchelor designed an enclosed streamlined body, Valley Custom built it, and with a single, unblown, nitro-fed flathead they set a new world record at 210.896 mph in 1950, breaking one that had stood since 1928. And this with a handbuilt hot rod. The world took notice. It's shown on the cover of the Oct. '50 HOT ROD (middle) before it was painted white.-Pat Ganahl53 THE EMPI INCH PINCHER
This is the car that made hot rodders take Volkswagens seriously. Built as a promotion for the EMPI parts business, the original Inch Pincher was a '56 Beetle that was first raced in sports car events by Dan Gurney (he won with the car in Nassau in 1963) and that later was drag raced in the Gas classes by Dean Lowry. It won class at the '64 Winternationals and was later on the cover of the Oct. '66 Rod & Custom and the Jan. '68 Sports Car Graphic. Sometimes it was also raced with a supercharger, and it ran Bonneville, too. -David Freiburger
52 TROY TREPANIER'S '60 CHEVY
Trepanier's first car was a raspberry Chevelle that Gray Baskerville shot for HOT ROD in 1988, but the one that really started him on the path to greatness was his '60 Chevy Impala that debuted in 1990. A sign of the times, it was monochrome turquoise green and had huge Pro Street rubber (and the only set of Boyds wheels at the '90 Street Machine Nationals!), and it set the standard for Dare to Be Different Pro Street cars of the early '90s. -Rob Kinnan51 EASTWOOD & BARAKAT'S '32 FORD SEDAN
While no one had used the term "rat rod" by 1982, this Tudor may have been the forerunner of that trend and is named as an influence by many followers of the beater ethic. Gray Baskerville called it a "rusto rod," a play on "resto rod." It was the first primered car on the cover of HOT ROD (Nov. '82 issue) and kicked off a return to low-buck, barefisted rods. Thrown together with used parts and spares by Pete Eastwood and Rick Barakat, it ran 11.59-second quarters at 117 mph for a reported price of $4,000. -David Freiburger50 VERN LUCE'S '33 COUPE
We had a spate of red rods before this, but this one, designed by Thom Taylor and built by Boyd Coddington in 1981, was the first of a whole new style of simple, smooth, sliced, stretched, and high-tech "designer rods" that is still a large part of the mix today. Definitely a trendsetter. -Pat Ganahl49 JOHN BUTTERA'S '26 MODEL T SEDAN
Before billet there was John Buttera's '26 Ford. Better known then as a top Funny Car builder, Little John raised the bar in street rod construction to new heights with scratch-built independent suspension on all four corners and full creature comforts adapted from a '72 Cadillac, all crammed into a Model T sedan. Art Chrisman, Steve Davis, Tony Nancy, and Willie Desatoff joined in on what was arguably the first all-star rod build covered in HOT ROD. -Bill McGuire48 BOYD/FOOSE/WARREN SMOOTHSTER
There was a time when no hot rodder had any interest in a '37 Ford. The yellow Fred Warren Smoothster changed all that. It also legitimized the fat-fender trend, killed the "paint everything pastel" fad, and won the Oakland AMBR biggie in 1995. It was designed by both Larry Erickson and Chip Foose, handformed over wood bucks by metal ace Craig Naff in both aluminum and steel, and emerged from Boyd Coddington's shop. Testers made a 11/424-scale model of it. And at least half the of the AMBR and Ridler Award contenders since bear a resemblance to it, not to mention hundreds of fiberglass kit spin-offs seen at runs and shows today. Talk about trendsetting. -Pat Ganahl47 BILL JENKINS' '72 PRO STOCKER
As if discriminatory weight breaks weren't sufficient to break Mopar's early stranglehold on Pro Stock, all three hot rod associations approved the aftermarket back-half with three-link suspension that Bill Jenkins brought to the '72 winter meets. With the first tube-chassis Pro Stock car, Grumpy went on to win six of eight NHRA national events in that first of several dominating seasons-moving his entire category closer to Pro and further from Stock. -Dave Wallace46 SOX & MARTIN'S PRO STOCK PLYMOUTHS
Ronnie Sox won so many AHRA, IHRA, NHRA, and independent races during Pro Stock's first two seasons that 426 Hemis have been unfairly handicapped ever since. A new Pro category that promised fair, heads-up, weight-to-cubic-inch competition among GM, Ford, and Chrysler became compromised instead by rules requiring Hemi cars to add weight and/or destroke displacement. In protest, Chrysler pulled its top teams for 1972, sending Sox and Martin back to Sportsman racing. -Dave Wallace45 DAN AND R.J. GOTTLIEB'S BIG RED CAMARO
Dan and R.J. Gottlieb's wicked '69 Camaro was never really a street car. In fact, it was a Camaro body draped onto a stock car-like chassis, with big engine setback and full-race hardware. But it looked like the world's most badass street car, and its 220-mph performance at the Silver State Open Road Race in 1990 proved that to be true. It inspired many Pro Touring cars built to chase that speed. -Rob Kinnan44 MARK STIELOW'S '69 CAMARO
GM engineer Mark Stielow is a hero among the Pro Touring faithful for his line of all-out, all-around Camaros (and one Malibu). "The white car" was his first effort, a car built with the best engineering and fabrication at the time for the purpose of not only shuttling Mark back and forth to work but also to take on Car and Driver's One Lap of America. It didn't finish that race, but it did launch the Stielow rides that followed, and (along with the Big Red Camaro) certainly helped set the Pro Touring/G Machine trend into motion. -Rob Kinnan
43 STAN SHAW/TONY CHRISTIAN'S '57 CHEVY
Stan Shaw showed up at the very first HOT ROD Fastest Street Car Shootout in 1992 with a '57 that had the parts to run fast, but we doubted its ability due to its show-car roots. He ran 11-something in the quarter, but caught the bug and showed up the next year with a purpose-built, tube-chassis car that ran the number and paved the way for the current wave of radical Pro Street cars we have today. When he sold it to former Pro Stock racer Tony Christian, the car destroyed not only the competition but also the "street car" pretense of that type of racing. -Rob Kinnan42 C.A.R.S. INC. CAMAROS (DYER, SCOTT, KIMMEN, CARRIER, TREPPA)
The C.A.R.S. Inc. Camaros of Rick Dyer, Danny Scott, Bruce Kimmen, Steve Carrier, and Jim Treppa were the exact types of hot rods we created the Fastest Street Car Shootout for. They were all-steel (except the hoods), fat-tired, nitrous'd, low-8-second street racers from Detroit that really were capable of being driven on the street-which they were often. Sponsored by the company that group leader Dyer worked for, the Camaros opened the eyes of street racers around the country as to what was possible. -Rob Kinnan41 RICK DOBBERTIN'S PONTIAC J-2000 PONTIAC PRO FAIRGROUNDS
The J-2000 was stupid, really. Rick Dobbertin gained notoriety with an over-the-top Chevy II with a Roots blower fed by two turbos in 1982 when it shared our September cover. But he topped it in 1986 with the little Pontiac, the epitome of fanatical, wretched excess applied to a trailer-only show car. When people called B.S. on his solid-mounted rearend, Dobbertin answered with a pair of valvesprings for a suspension. It was the show car that could never be topped, and it certainly inspired the trend to make cars real again. -Rob Kinnan40 SCOTT SULLIVAN'S '55 CHEVY
You're familiar with Power Tour(r), our cross-country roadtrip that draws thousands of hot rodders onto America's roads every summer? Six years before the first Power Tour(r), Scott Sullivan showed us how it should be done. With HRM Editor Jeff Smith riding shotgun, Sullivan drove his radical, tubbed, nitrous'd big-block-powered "Cheez Whiz Orange" '55 from Dayton, Ohio, to Palmdale, California, then ran mid-10s with leftover burger wrappers flying out the windows. It was epic, and it inspired us all to stop polishing chrome and sitting on lawn chairs, and start driving our hot rods. -Rob Kinnan39 FAT JACK'S '46 COUPE
We'll have to admit our Fat Attack "new trend" announced on the July '85 cover was a bit overinflated. But Jack Robinson's pumpkin-orange '46, later fitted with an overpowering George Streagle-blown/injected fat-block, was the real deal. It was emblematic of the first real street-type racing rods, which included Jerry Moreland's 150-mph '40 sedan and Cole Cutler's wild, flamed '34 coupe. Unfortunately, Jack's very unaerodynamic fat-fender proved that pigs can-and will-fly. -Pat Ganahl38 GARY KOLLOFSKI'S '55 CHEVY
Dzus-fastened sheetmetal is de rigueur today, but in 1977 it was only seen on full-tilt race cars. When Kollofski rumbled his blown, Rat-powered '55 into a show and un-Dzus'd the entire front clip off of it, it blew minds. The huge rear tires, progenitors of the Pro Street trend, were also brand-new for a street car. It graced our Dec. '77 cover. -Rob Kinnan37 LARRY WATSON'S '58 THUNDERBIRD
From his shop in Long Beach, California, Larry Watson was personally responsible for a number of custom paint trends of the '50s and '60s. Not all of them appeal to contemporary tastes-seaweed flames for example-but one still works just fine: panel painting. In 1958 Watson bought a new T-bird and sprayed it pearl silver. It was too bright, so next he set off the silver with candy-burgundy panels that followed and complemented the lines of the car. It was magic. -Bill McGuire36 ED ROTH'S BEATNIK BANDIT
A little-known fact: The Beatnik Bandit was not designed by Ed "Big Daddy" Roth. It was originally sketched out by Joe Henning, art director at Rod & Custom. But somehow the vision was pure Roth, from the stirrup-style steering to the bubble roof. Never really copied- it was as inimitable as it was undriveable- the Bandit launched Roth's career as a car- and youth-culture icon. -Bill McGuire35 HEMI VERSUS BUICK SHOOTOUT CARS
In 1985, Car Review (now Muscle Car Review) magazine set a storm in motion when it ran a story inviting Roy Badie's '70 Hemi GTX and Rick Lasseter's '70 Buick GS455 to duke it out in an effort to name the champ: Hemi or Buick. The GS455 blew doors, running 12.30 to the Hemi's 13.03 and starting a debate that still has not been settled despite two rematches. The cars involved invoked much passion on both sides of the battle, and the event put Buick musclecars on the map. -David Freiburger
34 ANDY'S INSTANT T
We can't have an All-Time Hot Rod anything list without one fiberglass T-bucket kit car on it, can we? With all the other replica and repro 'glass or steel bodies available today, we tend to forget the trail blazed by these inexpensive, easy-to-build, yet totally fun "fad cars." Andy Brizio sold plenty of his Instant T kits, but his own, painted in psychedelic ribbons by Himsl, won Oakland's AMBR trophy in 1970. -Pat Ganahl33 NORM GRABOWSKI'S KOOKIE KART
When it made HRM's cover in Oct. '55 in basic black, Norm Grabowski's shortbed, Cad-powered, steel-bodied T didn't cause a commotion. But when he painted it blue with Jeffries flames, hiked the back, extended the front, and added more pipes and more carbs-and Kookie started driving it on 77 Sunset Strip-it was sensational. This was the first hot rod to get national TV exposure, and it started more than one fad. -Pat Ganahl32 THE MERCURY FACTORY TEAM
With no formal NHRA category or accompanying rules on the horizon, Mercury saw no reason not to reproduce fullsize '66 Comet Calientes from scratch. This all-Michigan endeavor resulted in fiberglass bodies, SOHC engines, and Logghe space frames for Ed Schartman, Kenz & Leslie, Jack Chrisman, and Don Nicholson. Chrisman's blown-fuel roadster ran 8.20s before burning to the ground, Dyno Don dominated with injectors, and functional doors were history as the modern flip-top Funny was born. -Dave Wallace31 SACHS & CHRISMAN'S COMET
When FoMoCo commissioned Jack Chrisman and Bill Stroppe to beat the Dodge Chargers to 150 mph, they dropped a dragster-style 427 Ford and direct drive into an F/X Comet-and changed the world. No one had ever seen a new car smoke its tires for 1,000 feet or run 10.13 at 156.25 mph. (Later updated into a '65 Comet with SOHC power, this car is owned by Jim Barillaro.) It's considered the first Fuel Funny Car. -Dave Wallace30 THE ROD & CUSTOM DREAM TRUCK
No other magazine has done this. In 1954, first R&C Editor Spence Murray used reader input and the best talent of the time (Barris, Bailon, Valley Custom, Winfield, Jeffries, Sam Gates, Bob Metz) to build-and rebuild-a surprisingly well-integrated full-custom (chopped, channeled, and sectioned) early-'50s Chevy pickup with prescient features like quad lights, tailfins, and the first-ever Chevy V-8 engine swap. -Pat Ganahl29 GRAY BASKERVILLE'S '32 FORD ROADSTER
Aside from the driver, there was nothing particularly spectacular about this full-fendered Deuce that was itself a clone of the first Rod & Custom cover car. But as the longtime daily driver for R&C and HOT ROD's Ol' Dad, the beaten, high-mileage '32 came to represent truth in hot rodding to generations of magazine readers who followed the magnetic words of Baskerville in the pages of their favorite magazines. -David Freiburger28 THE HIROHATA MERC
Before Sam and George Barris built this full custom for Bob Hirohata from a new '51 Mercury, custom cars were chopped, sleeked, shaved of most chrome, and painted one deep, luscious lacquer color. This one reset the formula. It was redesigned with sculptured scoops, two-tone light/dark paint separated by new Buick side spears (plus three-tone interior), and that hardtop roofline. Its direct impact on Detroit cars of the latter '50s is undeniable. -Pat Ganahl27 DOANE SPENCER'S '32 ROADSTER
Begun as a rod in the '30s and fitted with the sleek DuVall V-windshield in '41, Spencer's ever-changing roadster was as sleek as a fenderless highboy could be with a solid hood, rolled rear pan, handmade (low-light) nerf bars, through-the-frame exhaust, and flawless black lacquer. But Spencer raced it at the lakes, drove it through 41 states, and was constantly upgrading it for performance. It's as unique, beautiful, and unparalleled today as it was then, which is saying a lot for a '32 highboy. -Pat Ganahl26 SAM BARRIS' '50 BUICK SEDANETTE
George Barris was the rainmaker and front man. His brother Sam was the metal man. For his personal custom Sam started with a fire job, the burned-out hulk of a '50 Buick two-door fastback, which he chopped, channeled, lengthened, and faded. It took him 22 months to create that rarest of designs: the car with no visible bad angles. Hard-core customizers today will get crazy-eyed and tell you, "That's it, the one. That is a perfect custom." -Bill McGuire
25 DICK LANDY'S '64 AWB DODGE
Altering a car's wheelbase for traction advantage has been going on ever since racers first took door-slammers seriously, with the 1959-built High and Mighty being a glaring example. However, when Dick Landy radically altered his lightweight '64 Hemi Dodge in late 1964 by moving the wheels forward by about 6 (front) and 8 (rear) inches, it was the precursor to Chrysler's factory altered-wheelbase cars and the beginning of the match-race craze at independent tracks (due to an NHRA ban in the Stock classes) that would eventually morph into the birth of flopper Funny Cars. -David Freiburger24 DICK KRAFT'S BUG
The first commercial, weekly-repeating dragstrip had been officially open less than a month when Dick Kraft stripped a lakes roadster into The Bug. Kraft's obsession with weight extended to peeling off his T-shirt! On September 24, 1950, the car set Santa Ana's top speed of 109.09 mph. Competitors called it The Rail Job, and we call it the world's first purpose-built dragster. Promoter C.J. Hart requested more coverage of both car and driver, creating some the sport's first safety rules. -Dave Wallace23 STUART HILBORN'S CLASS B STREAMLINER
Stu Hilborn's Class B streamliner was influential on two counts. It was the first hot rod in history to exceed 150 mph on the dry lakes. And more importantly, it put Hilborn Fuel Injectors on the map. A protege of Eddie Miller, Hilborn originally purchased the car from Bill Warth for $75 minus drivetrain. While serving in the military, Hilborn developed his fuel-injection ideas, and in July 1948 the rebuilt streamliner went 150.8 mph at El Mirage with Howie Wilson driving. Customer orders flooded in, and Hilborn was in business. -Bill McGuire22 BILL BURKE'S BELLY TANK
Bill Burke saw a stack of teardrop-shaped P-51 auxiliary fuel tanks on his Pacific island during the War and said, "That'd make a great race car body." When he got home he built one, and it did. His purple Sweet 16 lakester was featured in the first HRM with Wally Parks at the wheel. After he teamed with engine-builder Don Francisco, it was hailed as "World's Fastest Hot Rod" on the Aug. '49 cover. That's hot rodding-ingenuity in action. -Pat Ganahl21 SNAKE AND MONGOOSE HOT WHEELS FUNNY CAR Team
In the early '70s Don Prudhomme and Tom McEwen kicked up the game another notch with their Mattel Hot Wheels deal. Until then, drag cars were usually backed by parts suppliers, oil companies, and the like. Leveraging their ready-made brands as the Snake and Mongoose, the two friends, rivals, and business partners brought major nonendemic (outside the industry) sponsors into the sport. Their Wildlife Racing operation also ran dragsters, but it is the Funny Cars we remember today. -Bill McGuire20 SCOTT SULLIVAN'S PRO STREET '67 NOVA
It's often been said that this is the first Pro Street car. In fact, the pages of HOT ROD document street-legal tubbed cars prior to this one. However, when Sullivan's blown car stole the show in 1979 at the Street Machine Nationals and the HOT ROD Supernationals and was subsequently featured in many magazines, it became the landmark for the Pro Street movement, one that Sullivan would later redefine with greater subtlety. -David Freiburger19 THE GONE IN 60 SECONDS ELEANOR MUSTANG
The original Eleanor was a plenty ugly '73 Mustang Mach 1 that starred in a movie almost nobody saw when it came out. The second coming, in 2000, was a gussied-up '67 fastback that, with Nic Cage and Angelina Jolie inside, made the Common Man pay attention. Like the General Lee and Bandit T/A, the newest Eleanor focused non-car people's attention on cars, even if for only an hour and 57 minutes, and inspired a ton of knockoffs and several business plans. This one is a repro produced by Unique Performance. -Rob Kinnan18 THE BANDIT TRANS AM
This is the single bone-stock production car on our list, but we can point directly at the '77 Trans Am SE depicted in the first Smokey and the Bandit movie as being one of the most influential cars in modern history. In 1978, the movie was responsible for boosting Trans Am sales to nearly double the number of two years prior, and the TA sales handily trampled the Z28 that year. A swell of enthusiasts was created, and the wave is still cresting, with second-gen Trans Ams returning to an iconic position thanks solely to Bo Darville. -David Freiburger17 STEVE COLLISON'S MEAN MR. MUSTANG
Originally a Cars Illustrated project car, Steve Collison and his 5.0 Mustang basically created not only Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords magazine, but also the now-enormous late-model Mustang performance market. This was the first car that showed the world how brutally fast you could make a new Mustang with inexpensive bolt-on parts. -Rob Kinnan
16 SHIRLEY MULDOWNEY'S FIRST DRAGSTER
While Shirley's first dragster, built by Jack Muldowney, is perhaps her least-known car, we selected it based on the influence it had on Muldowney herself and the subsequent impact she had on drag racing overall. She was an ambassador for all women in proving they could compete, and her gender led to huge promotional impact on the sport itself, including the lasting effects of Heart Like a Wheel, her life story on film. This rare photo of that first dragster is from Englishtown, New Jersey, in 1968. -David Freiburger15 HOT ROD'S '67 CAMARO
The popularity of the early Camaro is inarguable, and the HOT ROD Test Car was the one that kicked it all off. This was the very first Camaro to hit the West Coast, and after the first road test in the Jan. '67 issue of HOT ROD, Editor Jim McFarland loaned it out to the aftermarket. Companies like Hooker and Hurst, among others, used it as the guinea pig to develop their new line of Camaro parts, and the rest is history. -Rob Kinnan14 PROJECT X '57 CHEVY
We can't say that Popular Hot Rodding's Project X was the first enthusiast-level project car ever done by a hot rod book. We can say it is the longest-running, launched back in 1965. And it is easily the single most recognizable example of a '57 Chevy two-door post on the planet. Now fresh off a total rebuild by GM Performance Division, X currently sports a 427ci Rat and 20-inch meats-but big-block or small, blown or normally aspirated, mild or wild, the chrome-yellow one is Project X. -Bill McGuire13 THE LITTLE RED WAGON
Bill "Maverick" Golden's very successful Stock and Super Stock career was handily trumped in 1965 as soon as he set foot in Chrysler PR guy Frank Wylie's scheme: a Dodge A100 truck with a rear-mounted 426 Hemi that was intended for A/FX competition, but that became famous worldwide as the first exhibition wheelstander after Maverick began driving it. While many LRWs were built, the first was by Jim Schaeffer, John Collier, Dick Branstner, and Roger Lindamood. In addition to its contributions to the world of wheelstanding, the LRW made drag racing fun for many generations of kids in the grandstands. -David Freiburger12 THE FIRST MEYERS MANX
Bruce Meyers will never argue that he invented the dune buggy. Guys had been building production-based sand cars for years before 1966, when Meyers came up with the idea of making a lightweight, air-cooled sand machine using a fiberglass tub and VW Beetle components. His cars won Pikes Peak, Baja, and sports car events and-most importantly-when featured on the cover of the Aug. '66 HRM became a huge cult industry that brought buggies to the street. By Meyers' own estimation, more than 300 companies ripped off the design that remains iconic today. -David Freiburger11 ZZ TOP'S ELIMINATOR COUPE
With MTV videos, the album cover, and worldwide appearances at live performances (not to mention a color spread in the Sept. '83 HRM), Billy Gibbons' chopped, red, full-fendered '33 certainly ranks as influential. What many don't know is that it's patterned on Chapouris' California Kid coupe and that there are two of 'em. -Pat Ganahl10 TWO-LANE BLACKTOP/AMERICAN GRAFFITI '55 CHEVY
As with most movie cars, the '55 seen in two of the greatest gearhead flicks ever (as well as in an episode of Adam-12) was, in fact, a series of several cars. However, the singular image of the nose-high, radiused-wheelwell, street-race Chevy that was throttled by The Driver (Blacktop) and Bob Falfa (Graffiti) picked up where the Gassers of the '60s left off, amplifying street-race cool and ensuring that primer, mailbox hoodscoops, and '55s will never go out of style. It would be impossible to count the impressions that this screen star made on Americana and hot rodding. -David Freiburger9 THE BATMOBILE
The car and the 1965 TV show it starred in are stereotypical examples of '60s kitsch, but who doesn't know theBatmobile at first sight? The new-tech reproductions for the Batman movies of the '90s and later are lame at best compared to the original George Barris icon, which began life as the '55 Lincoln Futura concept car before Barris got his hands on it and made himself a household name in the process. Three copies, pulled from molds of the original, were made for the show circuit, but it seems that they have somehow procreated into a much bigger family of "original" Batmobiles.-Rob Kinnan8 TOM McMULLEN'S '32 ROADSTER
It's very hard today to understand this car's impact on the Apr. '63 cover. There hadn't been a '32 roadster on Hot Rod's cover in years, let alone anything with flames. Then add the GMC blower, dual quads, mag wheels, a Moon tank, and license plates. There was absolutely nothing like it at the time. McMullen drove it to work, raced every weekend, won the Winternationals, set El Mirage records, led L.A. Roadsters cruises, and beat anything on the street. -Pat Ganahl
7 CHRISMAN BROTHERS & CANNON'S HUSTLER I
More than any earlier dragster, Hustler I proved that blowers belonged on top of nitro engines, and that those motors should be Chryslers. Some explosive experimentation by Art Chrisman and pioneer blower-builder Leonard Simmons eventually paid off with the first speed over 180 and victory at the first March Meet. Half a century later, top-blown Hemis are still the standard. -Dave Wallace6 CARROLL SHELBY'S FIRST COBRA
 While the Cobra is a sports car, arguably the greatest one America ever produced, hot rodders can claim it as their own: The first one was screwed together in the Los Angeles workshop of Mr. Mooneyes himself, Dean Moon. And that first example was more influential than anyone knew at the time. So that all the car magazines could feature a different Cobra in their pages, crafty old Shelby had the only Cobra then in existence repeatedly repainted. Here it's seen at Bonneville. -Bill McGuire5 DON GARLTIS' REAR-ENGINE DRAGSTER
 A crippling two-speed explosion inspired Big Daddy to sketch a back-motored chassis from his hospital bed in early 1970. Co-builder Connie Swingle's suggestion to slow down the slingshot-correct steering ratio solved the scary handling that plagued previous attempts, and the rest is history. After Garlits swept the '71 Winternationals and March Meet, the world rushed to copy a product that possibly has prevented more deaths and injuries than any invention since the rollbar. -Dave Wallace4 RICHARD PETTY'S '64 PLYMOUTH
When Richard Petty won the '64 Daytona 500 with a new-design, days-old 426 Hemi under the hood, it marked a clearly successful return of the legendary combustion-chamber design for Chrysler Corporation and ensured that the legacy of the 426 Hemi engine would grow greater and greater, even to this day. It also created a significant impact on the NASCAR rules structure from 1965 to 1972. Imagine the effect on Mopar and the hobby had the Hemi not won that race. -David Freiburger3 '64 PONTIAC GTO PRESS CAR
It is said that with his infamous road-test comparison of the Pontiac versus Ferrari GTOs, David E. Davis, Jr., invented modern automotive journalism. If so, then modern automotive journalism is mainly baloney, for the GTO that Pontiac PR guy Jim Wangers supplied to Car and Driver was a total fraud, sporting a 421 engine among other subtle mods. Really, it's about stirring the reader's passion for cars, and the cheated-up little GTO certainly accomplished that. -Bill McGuire2 THE AMERICAN GRAFFITI COUPE
With its chopped grille, bobbed fenders, and black framerails, the Graffiti '32 coupe will never make a list of Best-Looking Hot Rods. But influential? Nothing beats it. To many Americans (and others the world over), this is the hot rod. It's the one everybody knows. It's also unquestionably the one most duplicated-the world over. -Pat Ganahl1 THE GENERAL LEE
Influence. That's what this list is all about. Love it or hate it, but the General Lee '69 Charger from the dreadful (but highly entertaining) Dukes of Hazzard TV show has no doubt influenced more people to get into cars, or at least pay attention to them, than any other car. Nicer than Doane Spencer's '32? Hardly. But your grandmother and probably even the illegal immigrant who mows your lawn recognize this car, and that, friends, is influential. Name another car that you can find cloned in nearly any Auto Trader in the country during any week of the year. -Rob Kinnan HRM


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Top Definition
When three or more men perform a group hug so that their beer guts are touching, it's a belly hug.
person #1 and #2: "Group hug!"
person #3: (... more like a belly hug.)
person #4: (It's dark in here.)
от snlr 06 декември 2009
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a hug while giving a blow job
Can I have a belly hug?
What's a belly hug?
It's a hug from here
Motions to penis with hand
What's a belly hug?
It's a hug from here
от clk723 10 февруари 2008


text:
- Description
The Pro/Tran Q Series features 1-inch interchangeable circuit breakers. A 30A double-pole circuit breaker and a 20A double-pole circuit breaker, to handle heavier loads on the generator side, are included on each model. The balance of the circuit breakers are single-pole 15A.
The 15A circuits in the transfer switch may be connected to 15A or 20A circuits in the load center. Circuits are limited to 15A only on the generator side of the switch. Circuit breakers in the transfer switch are easily replaced. The spaces containing the 30A and 20A double-pole circuits may be replaced with 15 or 20A single-pole breakers if desired.
All models are suitable for hardwire connection. Cord connection is facilitated with the optional flanged inlets for direct connection to the transfer switch or the PB Series power inlet box for remote connection.
- Model: Q510C
- 10-circuit, 50 Amp transfer switch for enabling generators
- For use with 12500-watt generator
- Features interchangeable 15-, 20-, and 30 Amp 1-inch circuit breakers
- Analog wattmeter measures generator load
- cUL1008 listed; 5-year warranty
- Shipping Weight: 20 lbs.
- Customer Reviews