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Skip to comments.Waterboard Veterans Sign In
Posted on 05/03/2011 1:53:07 PM PDT by Mariner
With all the renewed talk about waterboarding I thought it would be a good thing to open a thread where folks who have been waterboarded can sign and leave their comments for posterity.
The rest of the Freepers can thank us for our service and sacrifice in perfecting this effective non-torture technique.
And, there is not one person who has administered a session that has not themselves been "on the board".
War Criminal #18 first to sign in.
So, how about you start us off. Have you been on the board?
I saw a fake waterboarding on a teevee show (Prison Break), and I was surprised that the victim's face was covered with saran wrap.
I guess I really don't get the whole concept, except that it is supposed to make you feel like you are drowning when you really aren't.
So tell us what you know about it.
My brother was boarded before going on an extended tour of Asia in the sixties...said he wouldn't want it to be a daily practice, but it didn't kill him. He was like that though. Never could talk about what he was doing, just doing his job.
I was in Army Intelligence for six years and later with another agency. What do you think?
Not a waterboarder or boardee, but I bet OBL wishes that's all that happened to him.
That would be anybody who went to SERE. Probably quite a few here.
IMHO, if there's no permanent physical injury, it's not torture. Otherwise we're arguing a sliding scale with nicely asking questions at one end, a standard (and legal) police interrogation further up, and so on. Anyone can define any point on that scale as being torture, and nobody's opinion will have anymore validity than anybody else's. A bleeding heart lib will say you frowned at him, so that's torture, whereas a Mossad operator will probably have a much higher threshold.
I spoofed them the second time and faked choking - they let me up.
Warner Springs in October. Brrrrr!
Graduate of the USN Law of War course.
It's not against the law because "torture" was defined as......."physical bodily harm or death". That was tied to US code. Therefore, it didn't meet the threshold.
Furthermore, the articles governing the Treatment of POWs in the Third Convention of the Geneva Conventions was written in a time to deal with the atrocities following WWII (it was written in 1949).
Absent from the discussion is the FACT that terrorists, or any other entity not following the Law of War, is not given POW protection afforded by the Geneva Conventions.
But that (withdrawing of GC protections) has to be determined by a competent military tribunal....and that has not been the case: and this is where the Pentagon has dropped the ball.
Sir, War Criminal #41, sir.
I did not attend SERE School, but perhaps some of you who have would want to weigh in?
Click on pic for past Navair pings.
Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
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This is a medium to low volume pinglist.
E&E Course, back then as a 1st Lt..
A very large beach towel was folded and soaked in a bucket of water and then held VERY firmly over my face.
Then a water hose was draining over the towel.
The whole time I was never asked a question. They asked questions of the Lt1 who was forced to watch all the while them threatening to kill me.
I had never even heard of the waterboard before and had just spent 8 days in the wilderness with nothing to eat.
They told me when it was over "I bet THAT was the longest 5 minutes of your life. I was "submerged" 6 times in the 5 min period...with about 10secs between each.
He's a pu$$y.
Sucks in June too.
Great thread, Mariner. Thanks to all you guys who trained hard to do the hard jobs.
Yeah, but the admin mod too it out of breaking news (technically not breaking news) and therefore SUBSTANTIALLY reduced it's visibility for the dozens, if not hundreds of "boardees" (or, if you prefer, those who proudly remember the War Criminal Number).
So I'm asking them again, please put this in Breaking News for a day so that the some of our fellow heroes can be recognized.
So, it YOUR contention the the US Military deliberately TORTURED thousands of it's best and brightest!?!?!?
Or, how about those 40 mile forced marches with full packs endured by MILLIONS? Was that torture too?
So at what precise point does interrogation become torture? If I keep you awake a little too long? Leave the lights on? Play Britney Spears 24/7?
Also Warner Springs in Oct 85...
June 79 for me.
Prickly pears. Yuk. Our whole crew found about 2.
On day 5 or so one of the trainer came to camp with a dead jack rabbit (there were 40 or 50 of us) and I got the eye.
That was as hungry as I had ever been. Stung by wasps, blisters, sunburned, beaten/bruised, waterboarded and no more than 3 hours sleep in the final 4 days.
We had plenty of clean, fresh water though:)
sorry for the vanity on this post.
It's apparent Talisker has an opinion not based in reality.
We both spent time on Guam. You were the next hangar over.
Changing my tagline.
SERE/CWST Brunswick, Maine '91... the winter of love, at 35 below, I would have snuggled with Keith Olbermann to keep warm... Water Boarding? that was for little girls compared to what we got.
If I "had" been I would never publicly or privately confirm it.
Supposedly KSM was waterboarded how many times: 168??
Sooner or later you have to recognize that this contined treatment is horseshit and you're not going to be allowed to die, so F'em, go with the plan!
Supposedly KSM was waterboarded how many times: 168??
Sooner or later you have to recognize that this contined treatment is horseshit and you're not going to be allowed to die, so F'em, go with the plan!
He spent 2 minutes on the waterboard and purred like a kitten from that time forward.
Dude. It's already public information as to what goes on at SERE. It's been on the news.
You are free to speak about it now...legally:)
Man, you got all the Vitamin C. We got a rabbit and a squirrel.
Waterboarding is no big deal.
Did you really mean to say vitamin see?
The aqueous humour of the rabbits eye serves as a source of vitamin C. We were told the only higher source of vitamin C in a survival situation was rose pedals and we wouldn't see any of those. That's the story they gave us.
I went to SERE school in 1968. At the time, we were deprived of food, put in small boxes, sent on 7 mile marches, run thru a simulated enemy zone and put thru an enemy camp with interrogation, "open handed" smackdowns (which hurt pretty darn good) but that was all pre-waterboarding.
When they had us do an about face at 3 AM or so and started playing the Star Spangled Banner, I'm sure mine was not the only face with tears.
Over the years, I always think back to that time when confronted with a nasty situation, always figuring "I handled SERE, I can handle this."
Thanks for checking in and telling it.
Y'all really make me feel old.
Enlisted to evade the draft 1965
Sent my stuff to Bainbridge 1976
SERE? Waterboarding?
Worst punishment I got was having to admit that I was in at the same time as j f'ing kerry.
My hubby was waterboarded as part of his survival training too. He has had NO problems from it at all.
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
The Eye of Makarios
In a World of Terror the Only Truth is Betrayal
David Cullen
This book is available for download with iBooks on your Mac or iOS device, and with iTunes on your computer. Books can be read with iBooks on your Mac or iOS device.
1974. A world in turmoil. Terrorism is rife. In the Middle East, El Fateh plan their first nuclear strike. The Irishman, their hardware supplier, wants a very special item in payment. In the Mediterranean, Cyprus is an island about to be divided. Resistance leader Grivas is dying. He wants to hit his enemy from beyond the grave. In Israel, the security services want to finish off their enemy once and for all. In Europe, Sally wants to find her missing lover. In a world about to implode, they all have one common link...The Eye of Makarios.
- 1,99 €
- Category: Crime & Thrillers
- Published: 25 July 2011
- Publisher: Lulu.com
- Print Length: 333 Pages
- Language: English


text:
I recently attended a preliminary hearing for a case that involved being assaulted by a guy with a metal bar and he was charged with aggravated assault. It was revealed in court that I met him via Craigslist (erotic services) and the defense claim that our dispute was really about money. I explained to them that he tried to offer me counterfeit money and I declined it and tried to leave. When I try to leave that's when he assaulted me.
Although I told the court that I had to receive 12 staples in my scalp area and 2 sutures in my forehead, the charges wind up being dropped from aggravated assault to simple assault because I forgot to say I went to the hospital after the incident. Is there a way the prosecution can reverse this if I have proof that I did receive medical attention?
Criminal Defense Attorney
Yes. The charges can be changed. The district attorney can file a motion to have the charges reinstated. It is complicated to do, but it can be done. If the DA loses the motion, they can appeal to the Superior Court, but again, its tough to win.
Post a free question on our public forum.Ask a Question
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No points at this time.
WISSOTA Modifieds are sophisticated, high powered, open-wheeled race cars. As the name implies, they are radically "modified" from their stock status. The easiest way to identify a WISSOTA Modified is the lack of front fenders along with a spoiler on the rear of the car. You might also see the left front in the air, similar to the Late Models explained above. WISSOTA's Modified drivers may choose to run a 360 "Spec" engine that is not subject to a competitor's claim or a larger engine, up to 406 cubic inches, that is subject to certain claim procedures after each feature race. The chassis and suspension is very advanced and highly tuneable to meet the needs of the driver's style or track condition, and the vast majority of Modified racers in WISSOTA choose methanol rather than gasoline for a fuel. Nationwide, Modifieds like those in WISSOTA are probably the most populous of all dirt track racing divisions.
WISSOTA Super Stocks appear, on the surface, similar to Late Models. The casual fan can tell the difference quickly by noticing the tires are much thinner, and Super Stocks have a smaller spoiler on the rear deck of the car. Engine rules mandate a maximum of 360 cubic inches in the Super Stock division, and competitors in the class are limited to a 2 barrel carburetor. There are chassis limitations placed on competitors in the Super Stock division, so the cars are not as tuneable or exotic as those in the Late Model and Modified divisions. The division is known for parity and the competitors provide very entertaining competition for fans at many WISSOTA tracks.
The WISSOTA Midwest Modifieds are a "limited" version of the Modifieds described above. The class was originally conceived and begun by a group of tracks in central and western Minnesota but the population of Midwest Modifieds exploded after it became a WISSOTA sanctioned division. The Midwest Modified division has a restricted package of engine and suspension rules, and the body lines are a little more conservative than most of the full Modifieds in competition. It is intended to be a more affordable way for racers to get a taste for open wheeled racing and its continued growth at tracks in the region has been impressive.
WISSOTA Street Stocks are the most "stock appearing" race cars racing under the WISSOTA banner. They feature a steel, stock appearing body most often Chevrolet Monte Carlo or Grand Prix styles from the late '70s and early 80s, when "metric" framed cars were predominant. Under the hood you'll most often find an engine anywhere from 307 to 350 cubic inches with limited rules that help to keep horsepower and costs contained. The class is considered an entry level division, although many of the drivers in the class are very experienced, accomplished and talented.
Full Body stock appearing rear will drive car 8 cylinder engine.
Full body stock appearing front wheel drive cars with a 4 cylinder engine.
St. Croix Valley Raceway | All rights reserved


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Three circles have a maximum of six intersections with each other.
What is the maximum number of intersections that a hundred circles
could have?
ABCDEFGH is a 3 by 3 by 3 cube. Point P is 1/3 along AB (that is AP
: PB = 1 : 2), point Q is 1/3 along GH and point R is 1/3 along ED.
What is the area of the triangle PQR?
Draw a square. A second square of the same size slides around the
first always maintaining contact and keeping the same orientation.
How far does the dot travel?
Seven small rectangular pictures have one inch wide frames. The
frames are removed and the pictures are fitted together like a
jigsaw to make a rectangle of length 12 inches. Find the dimensions
of. . . .
In a right angled triangular field, three animals are tethered to posts at the midpoint of each side. Each rope is just long enough to allow the animal to reach two adjacent vertices. Only one animal. . . .
A huge wheel is rolling past your window. What do you see?
Can you maximise the area available to a grazing goat?
A circle rolls around the outside edge of a square so that its circumference always touches the edge of the square. Can you describe the locus of the centre of the circle?
Start with a large square, join the midpoints of its sides, you'll see four right angled triangles. Remove these triangles, a second square is left. Repeat the operation. What happens?
ABCD is a regular tetrahedron and the points P, Q, R and S are the midpoints of the edges AB, BD, CD and CA. Prove that PQRS is a square.
It is possible to dissect any square into smaller squares. What is
the minimum number of squares a 13 by 13 square can be dissected
Can you use the diagram to prove the AM-GM inequality?
A blue coin rolls round two yellow coins which touch. The coins are
the same size. How many revolutions does the blue coin make when it
rolls all the way round the yellow coins? Investigate for a. . . .
Points P, Q, R and S each divide the sides AB, BC, CD and DA respectively in the ratio of 2 : 1. Join the points. What is the area of the parallelogram PQRS in relation to the original rectangle?
You can move the 4 pieces of the jigsaw and fit them into both
outlines. Explain what has happened to the missing one unit of
What happens to the perimeter of triangle ABC as the two smaller
circles change size and roll around inside the bigger circle?
Is it possible to remove ten unit cubes from a 3 by 3 by 3 cube made from 27 unit cubes so that the surface area of the remaining solid is the same as the surface area of the original 3 by 3 by 3. . . .
Imagine a large cube made from small red cubes being dropped into a
pot of yellow paint. How many of the small cubes will have yellow
paint on their faces?
Three frogs hopped onto the table. A red frog on the left a green in the middle and a blue frog on the right. Then frogs started jumping randomly over any adjacent frog. Is it possible for them to. . . .
Is it possible to rearrange the numbers 1,2......12 around a clock
face in such a way that every two numbers in adjacent positions
differ by any of 3, 4 or 5 hours?
Square numbers can be represented as the sum of consecutive odd
numbers. What is the sum of 1 + 3 + ..... + 149 + 151 + 153?
Triangle numbers can be represented by a triangular array of squares. What do you notice about the sum of identical triangle numbers?
Can you see how this picture illustrates the formula for the sum of
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A rectangular field has two posts with a ring on top of each post.
There are two quarrelsome goats and plenty of ropes which you can
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Which hexagons tessellate?
A standard die has the numbers 1, 2 and 3 are opposite 6, 5 and 4 respectively so that opposite faces add to 7? If you make standard dice by writing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on blank cubes you will find. . . .
Euler discussed whether or not it was possible to stroll around Koenigsberg crossing each of its seven bridges exactly once. Experiment with different numbers of islands and bridges.
If you can copy a network without lifting your pen off the paper and without drawing any line twice, then it is traversable.
Decide which of these diagrams are traversable.
A spider is sitting in the middle of one of the smallest walls in a
room and a fly is resting beside the window. What is the shortest
distance the spider would have to crawl to catch the fly?
The picture illustrates the sum 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = (4 x 5)/2. Prove the general formula for the sum of the first n natural numbers and the formula for the sum of the cubes of the first n natural. . . .
Some puzzles requiring no knowledge of knot theory, just a careful
inspection of the patterns. A glimpse of the classification of
knots and a little about prime knots, crossing numbers and. . . .
A half-cube is cut into two pieces by a plane through the long diagonal and at right angles to it. Can you draw a net of these pieces? Are they identical?
A right-angled isosceles triangle is rotated about the centre point
of a square. What can you say about the area of the part of the
square covered by the triangle as it rotates?
Can you dissect a square into: 4, 7, 10, 13... other squares? 6, 9,
12, 15... other squares? 8, 11, 14... other squares?
Imagine an infinitely large sheet of square dotty paper on which you can draw triangles of any size you wish (providing each vertex is on a dot). What areas is it/is it not possible to draw?
Can you cross each of the seven bridges that join the north and south of the river to the two islands, once and once only, without retracing your steps?
Rectangles are considered different if they vary in size or have different locations. How many different rectangles can be drawn on a chessboard?
Mathematics is the study of patterns. Studying pattern is an
opportunity to observe, hypothesise, experiment, discover and
Show that among the interior angles of a convex polygon there
cannot be more than three acute angles.
Draw a pentagon with all the diagonals. This is called a pentagram.
How many diagonals are there? How many diagonals are there in a
hexagram, heptagram, ... Does any pattern occur when looking at. . . .
Imagine you are suspending a cube from one vertex (corner) and
allowing it to hang freely. Now imagine you are lowering it into
water until it is exactly half submerged. What shape does the
surface. . . .
The diagram shows a very heavy kitchen cabinet. It cannot be lifted but it can be pivoted around a corner. The task is to move it, without sliding, in a series of turns about the corners so that it. . . .
A ribbon runs around a box so that it makes a complete loop with two parallel pieces of ribbon on the top. How long will the ribbon be?
Use the interactivity to listen to the bells ringing a pattern. Now
it's your turn! Play one of the bells yourself. How do you know
when it is your turn to ring?
The opposite vertices of a square have coordinates (a,b) and (c,d). What are the coordinates of the other vertices?
A cheap and simple toy with lots of mathematics. Can you interpret
the images that are produced? Can you predict the pattern that will
be produced using different wheels?
How efficiently can you pack together disks?
Use the animation to help you work out how many lines are needed to draw mystic roses of different sizes.
Can you discover whether this is a fair game?
Imagine starting with one yellow cube and covering it all over with
a single layer of red cubes, and then covering that cube with a
layer of blue cubes. How many red and blue cubes would you need?


text:
Dillon Bowers was a big reason why the boys track and field team at Pacific High School has enjoyed success over the last couple of seasons.
A sprinter and long jumper for the Indians, Bowers' versatility led to big points for Pacific in track and field competition.
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The Ed Show 08/20/14
Intensifying airstrikes in Iraq
In Ask Ed Live, Ed Schultz explains the disconnect between Republican Christian ideals and helping the poor. Plus, Ed shares his feelings about Pres. Obama's role in Iraq. ... more Duration: {{video.duration.momentjs}}
Intensifying airstrikes in Iraq
Golden Moment for Political Activism
Damaging impact of BP oil spill 5 years later
Celebrating Bernie Sanders' great career
Pro-oil Dems vote for KXL
Key moves to stop pipeline
Republicans, it's their way or the highway
Ed Schultz: Passing the TPP makes no sense
Obama misses rally in France
Saving the U.S. Postal Service
Will Republicans take action in 2015?
If you could change one thing about 2014…
What will it take?
Expanding US fishing options
Gearing up for 2016 nominations
No indictments for CIA personnel
Trying to break Michael Jordan's record
Ed: Keystone is not good for the climate
#GivingTuesday to NAFC
Thankful for our freedom
Retrieving data...
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SNL Weekend Update on MSNBC
Best of MSNBC
NBA pulls All-Star game from NC
Nine dead in Munich Germany attack
Frank Rich on Clinton's VP Pick and more
Sen. Al Franken on Clinton VP Pick Tim Kaine
Programming notes for the next couple days!
Kaine 'a believer in possibilities'
Kaine utility to Clinton ticket questioned
Kaine stance on abortion rights an evolution
Kaine a reflection of Clinton's confidence
Clinton taps Sen Tim Kaine as running mate
Trump goes after Cruz, again
New video on the shooting in Munich...
U.S. consulate in Munich: Shots fired at...
Munich police: Witnesses report 3 people...
U.S. Consulate in Munich: Shelter in place
Police: Several deaths, injuries in Munich...
Witness: No security in Munich mall
German TV: 1 dead, several injured
Police: Shooting at Munich shopping center
Toxic politics: What's a parent to do?
Rachel Maddow
Programming notes for the next couple days!
Kaine 'a believer in possibilities'
Kaine utility to Clinton ticket questioned
Kaine stance on abortion rights an evolution
Kaine a reflection of Clinton's confidence
Clinton taps Sen Tim Kaine as running mate
Trump thanks GOP for cheering LGBTQ rights
Do presidential nominees need to be likable?
Under review: Fact-checking Trump's speech
Trump upends traditional Republican values
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Trump's test: reaching beyond the base
Great teleprompter failures in history
Maddow: RNC's openly-gay speaker a 'tough...
Trump remarks shock foreign policy world
Franken: Expect positive message at DNC
Ailes Fox News exit shakes Republican Party
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Patsy Cline Museum Coming to Nashville
A new museum is headed to Nashville to honor the life and legacy of Patsy Cline.
A new museum is headed to Nashville to honor the life and legacy of Patsy Cline.
The Boot counts down the saddest love songs in country music.
Sixteen years ago today (Aug. 3, 1999) was a bittersweet day for the friends and family of Patsy Cline. It was on this day that the singer was posthumously awarded a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, in honor of her many career achievements.
Luke Bryan had to try to calm down his cheering fans long enough to allow him to introduce the talented LeAnn Rimes for a Patsy Cline tribute -- one that ended with a standing ovation from both fans and artists.
If you visited the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum in 2012, you were one of 564,777 visitors, meaning it was a very popular place to be. In fact, it was the largest attendance total in the museum's history, which spans 45 years. Two reasons for the phenomenal attendance rate? Taylor Swift and Patsy Cline.
A few mornings ago, Scott Shepherd and I asked what old school country songs make you want to roll the windows down, crank up the volume and violate a few noise ordinances...


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PRAGUE -- Eighth-seeded Barbora Zahlavova Strycova reached her first WTA final by routing Patty Schnyder of Switzerland 6-2, 6-0 Saturday in the Prague Open semifinals.
The 24-year-old Czech needed just 53 minutes to dismiss Schnyder, a former top 10 player. Zahlavova Strycova said she "played almost without errors."
"She plays a bit slow but clever tennis, so I had to be patient and it paid off," the 52nd-ranked Zahlavova Strycova said.
In Sunday's final, she will face seventh-seeded Agnes Szavay of Hungary, who beat Lucie Hradecka 6-2, 6-4.
The 49th-ranked Szavay will be aiming for her fifth career title.


text:
Bob Holt is a reporter for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. A graduate of the University of Missouri, he is a member of the Football Writers Association of America, and voter for the Heisman Trophy, Biletnikoff Award and AP Top 25 basketball poll. Holt was awarded Arkansas Sportswriter of the Year in 2000 and 2015.
Two flings, one prayer answered
Matt Jones throws a 31-yard touchdown pass to Decori Birmingham with 9 seconds remaining in Arkansas' 21-20 win over LSU in 2002.
FAYETTEVILLE Matt Jones looked like he was having an afternoon bicycle ride in the park on Thanksgiving weekend.
In a way, he was.
Jones was riding a stationary bike on the Arkansas sideline at War Memorial Stadium, located in Little Rock's War Memorial Park, to stay loose before going back onto the football field for the Razorbacks.
It was 10 years ago — Nov. 29, 2002, to be exact — and the Razorbacks had a long way to go in a short time to beat LSU for the SEC West title and earn a trip to Atlanta for the conference championship game.
The 14th-ranked Tigers, led by Coach Nick Saban, had kicked a field goal to cap a 13-play drive that put LSU ahead 20-14. The drive consumed 5:53, leaving the Razorbacks 34 seconds when they took possession at their 19 after the kickoff return.
Arkansas Coach Houston Nutt approached Jones, a junior quarterback, as he was pedaling away.
"I'll never forget it," Nutt said. "We were in a CBS timeout and I came up to Matt as he's over there riding and I said, 'Hey, Matt, a little sense of urgency here now. We've got a hurry, hurry situation.'
"We were going over the first three plays that I thought could work, and he looked like he's all nonchalant, like we were up by two touchdowns. I said, 'Matt, c'mon now, this is the two-minute drill, let's get this done.'
"His response was: 'Coach, don't worry. I got it.' "
Jones backed up his words to Nutt in stunning fashion, completing two passes that had the Razorbacks in the LSU end zone 25 seconds later.
David Carlton kicked the extra point, and Brandon Holmes sacked Tigers quarterback Marcus Randall to force a fumble that clinched the Razorbacks' 21-20 victory that was quickly dubbed the "Miracle on Markham" after the street which runs adjacent to War Memorial Stadium.
With time winding down on a 2012 season full of disappointments, Arkansas fans can celebrate the 10th anniversary of the "Miracle on Markham" as the Razorbacks prepare to play LSU on Friday in Fayetteville.
"It doesn't seem like 10 years. I must be getting old," said Jones, who is now co-host of a radio show in Little Rock. "Time really flies."
Saban, now in his sixth season as Alabama's coach and with three national titles on his resume, recalled details of the Arkansas-LSU game from 2002 when asked about it last week.
"I remember a lot about that game," Saban said. "You don't forget those kind. A lot of it was not good execution by our defense, but it also was a great player making some great plays for them. Matt Jones was a great player."
It hadn't been a great game for Jones leading up to Arkansas' final drive. Far from it.
Jones had completed 2 of 13 passes for 46 yards and thrown an interception in the end zone on the Razorbacks' first nine possessions.
"Then we made him look like Joe Namath on that last drive," said Florida Coach Will Muschamp, who was LSU's defensive coordinator at the time.
Jones laughed when he heard Muschamp compared him to Namath.
"Hey, I'll take it," he said.
On first down, Nutt called a play with Richard Smith running a deep clearout route with the idea George Wilson would be open underneath.
"We were just trying to get up to the 50 where we could chunk it to the end zone, but Richard was able to get behind the defense," Jones said.
With LSU's defensive backs jumping on the shorter routes, Jones passed to Smith for 50 yards to the LSU 31. Arkansas was out of timeouts, so the Razorbacks hustled to the line of scrimmage. Jones then threw to the end zone for Carlos Ousley, but the ball fell incomplete.
Seventeen seconds remained, enough time for possibly two more plays, but the Razorbacks only needed one.
The call was a "triple post X drag," with Wilson running over the middle and three other Razorbacks flooding the end zone. Wilson was the primary receiver, but Jones saw DeCori Birmingham find an open spot in the corner.
"It was one of those deals where you see a window, and it doesn't need to be a very big one, because you're down and you're just hoping you get lucky," Jones said. "DeCori made a heck of a catch."
Birmingham caught the ball between LSU defensive backs Randall Gay and Travis Daniels, who both became NFL players. Gay played on two Super Bowl championships teams with New England, and Daniels still plays for Kansas City.
"I was responsible for the Miracle on Markham Street, or whatever they call it," Muschamp said. "I remember it like it was yesterday. We obviously had a busted coverage on their first play and cut a guy loose deep, and then on the touchdown, we were in a two-man deep look and they hit us over the top.
"That drive is something that still sticks with me to this day, but it was a heck of a throw by Jones in the back in the end zone there."
In the Arkansas radio booth, color analyst Keith Jackson became so excited that he screamed "Touchdown, Arkansas!" almost in unison with playby-play man Paul Eells. As they continued on the air, Jackson mentioned the words "miracle" and "Markham."
"Matt just caught fire that last drive," Jackson said last week. "It was so crazy. Beating LSU, you always get excited, but that was really wild.
"When teams allow you to stick around instead of putting you away, that's what can happen. They gave us a chance, and we took it."
Birmingham said all he could think about was "touchdown" as he waited for the ball.
"I can't believe it happened that way and that I was involved in it," Birmingham told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette the next year. "I was in the right place at the right time.
"It's hard to remember second by second, but when I watch it on TV I feel like I'm still out there, like I can smell the air."
Jones' touchdown pass to Birmingham, though, only tied the score 20-20. The Razorbacks still needed to kick the extra point to go ahead, and that became more challenging when they were penalized 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct because some players ran onto the field to celebrate the touchdown.
"I think I was the only one not jumping on the pile," Carlton told the Democrat-Gazette later. "I was the one trying to break it up."
The celebration penalty meant Carlton would have to kick a 35-yard extra point.
"I was sick to my stomach, because we put David in a very tough situation," said Nutt, who now works for the CBS Sports Network. "I started getting ready for overtime."
Carlton then gave Arkansas its only lead of the game, knocking the ball just inside the left upright after it was blown by the wind.
"Jones to Birmingham to Atlanta," Nutt said, reciting the Democrat-Gazette's headline the next day without prompting. "That was a heck of headline."
Three weeks before the Arkansas-LSU game, the Tigers had won 33-30 at Kentucky in what became known as "The Bluegrass Miracle" on a twice tipped 74-yard touchdown pass on the final play.
"I never will forget going to midfield to see Nick and I said, 'Nick, can you believe it?' " Nutt said. "He said, 'Hey, we won one just like this at Kentucky. I know how you feel. Congratulations.' "
Arkansas' game-winning drive wouldn't have been possible if Fred Talley hadn't scored on a 56-yard touchdown play with 6:33 left to pull the Razorbacks within 17-14. It was a draw play on second-and-19 after Jones had been sacked.
"Fred made a PlayStation-type run where he broke about nine tackles," Jones said. "It was one of the best runs ever in Razorback history if you watch that. I mean, it was an amazing run."
The Razorbacks caught LSU in a blitz, and Talley was able to cut back and outrun the Tigers to the end zone.
"I kept feeling people hitting my legs and my heels," Talley said after the game. "But I just dug down and tried not to be denied."
Safety Tony Bua made another big play for Arkansas after LSU got the ball back when he tackled LaBrandon Toefield for a 1-yard gain on third-and-6 from the Razorbacks' 13, leading to Saban's decision to kick a field goal for a sixpoint lead.
Prior to Bua's stop, Talley was among the offensive players imploring the defense to hold the Tigers.
"I saw Fred run up and say, 'If you just give us the ball with one second left, we'll win this game,' " Bua said afterward.
Going for the field goal rather than a touchdown on fourth-and-5 seemed like sound strategy by Saban considering Jones' struggles with passing the ball.
"Matt hadn't thrown a spiral all day, but when he had to make throws, he could make 'em," Nutt said. "He was always so cool under pressure. He had ice water in his veins and didn't ever flinch."
Jones said he may have appeared relaxed to Nutt when they spoke before the Arkansas' final possession, but he had plenty of emotion on the inside.
"It was probably one of my worst games as a Hog when you look at the stats," Jones said. "I was more mad at myself than anything, and I was my worst critic.
"That also was a great LSU team, and any Sabancoached team is going to be tough. They could make anybody look bad."
Jones said he remained confident in himself and his teammates.
"As a quarterback, you always have to have a short memory," he said. "As long as we were out there, I knew we had a chance."
2 Passes completed by Matt Jones during first nine possessions for Arkansas
2 Passes completed by Jones during 25 seconds on Arkansas' final drive
46 Yards passing for Jones before final drive
81 Yards passing by Jones during 25-second drive
14-0 Houston Nutt's record at War Memorial Stadium after 21-20 victory over LSU
What they said after the game
"We won a game in the last 13 seconds, and today we lost a game in the last 36 seconds. So, Sometimes you say they balance themselves out. Well, I guess we were a victim of that today." - LSU coach Nick Saban
"It's just a blessing from the heavens." - Arkansas Coach Houston Nutt
"You see a little opening, but you've just got to give him a chance. You can't throw it out of bounds. You've got to just give him a chance and hope he comes down with it." - Matt Jones, on his touchdown pass to DeCori Birmingham
"I kept feeling people hitting my legs and my heels. But I just dug down and tried not to be denied." - Fred Talley, on his 56-yard touchdown run that pulled Arkansas within within 17-14.
What they're saying today
"I was responsible for the 'Miracle on Markham Street,' or whatever they call it. I remember it like it was yesterday. ... That drive is something that still sticks with me to this day. But it was a heck of a throw by Jones in the back in the end zone there.... We made him look like Joe Namath on that last drive."- Florida Coach Will Muschamp, LSU's defensive coordinator at the time
"I remember a lot about that game. You don't forget those kind. A lot of it was not good execution by our defense, but it was a great player making great plays for them. Matt Jones was a great player." -Nick Saban, now the coach at Alabama, recalling the 2002 game
What they wrote
WALLY HALL Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
As time ran out on the third quarter, Matt Jones came to his feet and raised his arms over his head. Four fingers showed on both hands.
Arkansas trailed 17-7.
Then dozens of other Razorbacks flashed the sign that means, "The final quarter belongs to us."
Believe it.
Another Miracle on Markham Street and another notch in Houston Nutt's War Memorial Stadium belt as the Razorbacks got their first lead after 59:51 of play. It was good for a 21-20 victory.
Believe it, Nutt is 14-0 in The Rock.
SCOTT CAIN Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
In a season that has at times defied college football's laws of nature, Arkansas saved its most powerful miracles for the last ticks of the regular season.
Unable to throw effectively all day, Arkansas struck not with one but two thunderbolts that covered 81 yards in 25 seconds. Quarterback Matt Jones fired both, the second a 31-yard touchdown pass to backup flanker DeCori Birmingham with nine seconds to play, to deliver the Razorbacks from desperation to delirium.
Sports, Pages 27 on 11/22/2012


text:
About nasch
So you're really going to claim that vaccines don't save lives?
No, he claimed that life is possible without vaccines, which is clearly true.
You have a requirement for four different kinds of majority, under different rules, and eighty percent of the underlying public is about right.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. To "do anything", by which I assume you mean pass something into law, you need greater than 50% support in the Senate and House, and the President. The public has no say. So where does this 80% come from, or are you talking about something totally unrelated?
If you want federal gun control, you have to find a way to structure it in terms which makes sense to a deer hunter somewhere in Tennessee.
There are gun control measures, such as universal background checks, that are favored by a majority of the public, a majority of Republicans, and a majority of gun owners. Yet they cannot get through Congress. If Congress only cared about representing their constituents, this would not happen. Gun control is just one example, there are others where Congress will not act despite the will of the people.
There is basically no oversight outside the military for launching nuclear weapons. So if we elect Trump, we're relying on a narcissist world leader with the attention span of a kindergartener to keep his cool enough to not nuke anyone for at least four years. Or for the military to disobey an order from the commander in chief if he does decide to push the button. This ought to be enough to keep him out of office, but then there have been a lot of things that ought to have been enough to end his run.
Under the American system of checks and balances, you need something like 80% popular support to actually do anything.
You need the support of a majority of both houses of Congress (or sometimes a supermajority). The public doesn't get any input between elections. Very few issues have 80% popular support, and I would guess most of those are not being acted upon because Congress isn't interested (eg campaign finance reform, gun control).
Hillary was against it, before she was for it
True, but very little of that (only your prediction of tyranny really) is specific to Hillary. It applies equally to nearly every politician, at least above the local level.
Or pretend there is another choice. That's always fun too.
That seems to be what the Bernie or Bust people are doing.
There are predictions made by this dark matter/dark energy theory, of which none have been seen.
Are you sure?
http://www.quantumdiarie s.org/2013/06/26/does-dark-matter-really-exist/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter#Observation al_evidence
If you're correct then the WP article needs to be updated with your references, because it lists some predictions that have been confirmed by observation.
It happened and parents were trying to pull their kids out of school and the law enforcement wouldn't let them. Kids were screaming, parents were crying and everyone was shouting and guns were waving.
I'm sure you have a link to documentation of all the gun waving, right?
The sentence reads fine without "per se", and the addition of it is superfluous.
I like your joke and I got it, but it's a legal thing: "Thus, an act is illegal without extrinsic proof of any surrounding circumstances such as lack of scienter (knowledge) or other defenses." They're trying to make it sound like they don't need to prove anything like intent or knowledge, that the act is defamatory without regard to any extenuating circumstances. Which sounds like complete BS to me.
If your problem is with the idea of suddenly legalizing everything without any planning for the consequences, I think you're arguing against a strawman. I doubt anyone is proposing that, just arguing that the war on drugs is a stupid expensive useless dangerous violent failure, and we need to stop doing it.
And I have a Dremel. There goes your 100%.
OK, how about... blowtorch?
It seems Moore's math assumes everything but those four states will stay the same. Not clear that is the case, and it looks to me like the changes are not in Trump's favor.
Don't underestimate this; it means he's likely to win the voter turnout game hands-down!
Sure, but it may not matter. He could turn out every single person in states like Alabama, Arkansas, and Kansas, and it would make not one bit of difference, because that wouldn't get him a single additional electoral college vote. Where is he going to turn out these additional voters? If it's not in swing states, it's irrelevant (unfortunately - basically most of the votes in the US just don't matter, which is terrible).
More about how the states aren't favoring Trump (slightly outdated): http://www.npr.org/2016/06/26/483452230/npr-battleground-map-florida-pennsylvania-move-in-opposite-d irections
Polling currently has Clinton winning 288-191. So he'd have to pick up 79 more votes.
http://www.npr.org/2016/07/18/486386980/npr-battleground-map-ahead-of-the-conventions-where-do es-the-race-stand
"A presidential candidate needs 270 Electoral Votes to become president. In other words, if Clinton wins just the states leaning in her direction, she would be president without needing any of the toss up states — Colorado, Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio or Pennsylvania."
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/26/483452230/npr-battleground-map-florida-pennsylvania-move -in-opposite-directions?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=politics&utm_medium=social&u tm_term=nprnews
OK yes I get my news from NPR. :-p
And you're probably right about Texas. Eventually it will be blue but not this time. Do you still claim Clinton has "no chance" or was that hyperbole?
Payola rears its ugly head yet again.
This seems like the opposite of payola. Payola is labels paying radio stations to play songs. This would be like the radio station (Facebook) paying the record labels (various content providers).
Yes, to me it seems the question is does the disclosure rule only apply to the content, or does it extend to the medium as well.
If clothing can't be copyrighted because it's a "useful article", then why the fuck can software be copyrighted?
Perhaps it's not an "article". It is not physical after all. Just speculating.
They've already hacked every plausible cloud provider...
Are you saying it's possible to hack Amazon once, and then have access to every current and future EC2 virtual machine ever created? If so, that sounds extremely implausible and like you probably don't know much about AWS architecture. Or if not, what do you mean?
Based on that alone, Hillary has no chance.
Sounds like you haven't thought about the electoral system much. Even if Trump has more supporters and more enthusiastic supporters, it still depends on where the voters are. He is going to lose big in New York, California, and Texas (Hispanic vote). Lots of electoral college votes in those states alone. I think he'll have a tough go in Florida at best. His support among blacks is right around zero in some polls, which makes some other states challenging for him. He has basically no organization at all, no TV advertising, and no ground game.
Basically his only support is among conservative whites, particularly the less educated, which is a smaller group than ever before, and the less educated vote less than the more educated. Those voters that he might turn out to vote for him in large numbers who haven't been voting recently mostly live in deep red states that will go for whoever the Republican is no matter what. So they won't make a difference.
"At the moment, [Trump] is running on par with Romney's 17-point margin with white voters during his race against Barack Obama. It was not enough for Romney; Trump would need more, and though he succeeds with white voters without a college degree, he is doing worse than his predecessor among those with a diploma."
He has a steep uphill climb to win this. I won't say he has no chance, but in my opinion your assessment is way off.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/missing-white-voters-might-help-trump-but-less-so-where-he-n eeds-it/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/11/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-disaffected-vot ers
The democratic caucuses were absolute farces of, if not illegal, highly immoral obstructionism against Sanders.
He did very well in the caucuses, it's the primaries where Clinton won.
The U.S. has quite a bit of growing up to do as a society before were ready for something like that.
So we're better off continuing to lock people up for taking drugs until we "grow up"? What percentage of the US population takes illegal drugs other than marijuana? It's tiny, right? It would probably be even smaller if pot were legal everywhere. Are there a bunch of people just pining to take meth or heroin and not doing it because it's illegal? Sounds ridiculous. I just don't see how putting users in jail could possibly be a better use of that money than putting them in drug treatment.
There seams [sic] to be two possibilities. The ghostwriter is either 1) telling the truth or 2) not telling the truth.
I'm curious what other conspiracies you believe in. Your post smacks of the mindset, with looking for nefarious hidden motives rather than the obvious and perfectly plausible stated ones. 9/11 was an inside job? Aliens at Roswell? Illuminati?
It's strange that you would tend to credit Trump, a known blatant and perhaps even pathological liar, over this guy.


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Mesa, AZUSA
November 23, 2011
250 rebel me w. And hardley sporty my bf. When we ride I ride with him.
1yr w. 5 yr him
Looking for fun ppl to ride with.
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PREP FOOTBALL: Vista Murrieta rolls into quarterfinals
MURRIETA — Like a freight train, it took a little while for Vista Murrieta's offense to get moving, but once it did, it flattened La Verne Damien.
The Broncos scored four touchdowns in the second quarter Friday night to win 38-13 in a CIF Southern Section Inland Division first-round game at Vista Murrieta High.
Vista Murrieta (6-5 including five forfeits) remained undefeated on the field this season and advanced to play Riverside North in next Friday's quarterfinals.
"Any time you practice on Thanksgiving, it is a good thing," Vista Murrieta coach Coley Candaele said. "We are always happy when that happens."
For a while, that holiday practice looked to be in jeopardy as the Spartans (7-4) shocked the Broncos with a trick play and led 7-3 at the end of the first quarter.
Quarterback Gage Pucci threw a backward pass in the flat to Enrique Zaldivar, who then threw an 85-yard touchdown pass to Andy Sherwood with 26 seconds left in the first quarter.
The lead didn't last long, as Vista Murrieta scored on its next possession on a 23-yard keeper by quarterback Nick Stevens to go back up 10-7 at the 10:51 mark of the second quarter.
After a three-and-out by Damien, the Broncos got the ball at the 50 and scored eight plays later on Su'a Cravens' 1-yard run to push the lead to 17-7.
After another Spartans punt, Cravens struck again. The junior broke a 25-yard run down to the Damien 10-yard line and then hurdled into the end zone on the next play to extend the lead to 24-7 with 1:52 to play in the half.
"It was all about how our offensive line played," Candaele said. "They didn't play well in the first quarter, but once they started getting off the ball, we started doing the things we know we can do well."
Cravens not only scored the two touchdowns, but also had four sacks on defense.
On the first play of the ensuing possession, Pucci fumbled, and the ball was scooped up by Vista Murrieta's Bryce Smith, who returned it to the 1-yard line. Aaron Piecukonis ran it in from there, and the Broncos took a 31-7 lead into halftime.
Vista Murrieta started the second half with the ball and built the lead to 38-7 when Stevens scored his second touchdown on a 3-yard keeper to cap a six-play drive.
Stevens rushed for 69 yards on nine carries and also threw for 182 yards on 9-of-15 passing for the Broncos.
Damien did put one impressive drive together late in the third quarter. Zaldivar, who took over as quarterback in the second half, engineered a 17-play, 80-yard drive capped by a 8-yard pass to Sherwood to close the gap to 38-13.
Zaldivar threw for 177 yards on 8-of-17 passing. Travion Boykins led the Spartans with 47 rushing yards on seven carries.


text:
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Greet Each Day With A Smile
Written by Holden Rethwill
"I woke up on the wrong side of the bed."
"It's just one of those days."
"I'm having an off day."
How many times have you heard someone say this? Well, all I hear are excuses. All of these statements are merely an attempt to justify a poor attitude and outlook on one's current situation.
You know what is awesome about being a human?
Our ability to make choices.
We have the choice to wake up every morning with a smile on our face, ready to take on what the world throws at us. We also have the choice to make one of these excuses. But why do the latter when the former leads to a much happier outlook on life?
Rather than waking up and dreading the day ahead, try simply smiling and telling yourself that you have the choice to find the positive in what lies before you.
This mindset transfers over to the gym as well.
Rather than walking into the gym and making the excuse that the workout or lift just wasn't a good one for you, try reversing that thought and taking a positive outlook. You'll be surprised with how much better your body will feel and your performance will be.
If we are constantly making excuses like the aforementioned, we are continuously setting ourselves up for failure. The opposite, greeting each day, each workout, with a smile, can lead to incredible success.
You have the choice to have a positive attitude! So give it a shot, but just a warning, smiling is known to be contagious!


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Loo & Chilli
SPANX is Making Jeans!
Skinny jeans that actually make you skinnier? Take a look at Spanx's first-ever line of denim: http://t.co/bcVFBzHBTb pic.twitter.com/vbZYzv1zog
— Fashionista.com (@Fashionista_com) June 12, 2014
If you've dreamed of a pair of jeans that would suck and tuck you in like your beloved Spanx, it's time to wake up! Your dream is about to become reality with Spanx's announcement of two different styles of jeans set to hit the market on July 25th.
Fashionista.com reports that the Signature jean is described as "high-waisted with a wide waistband (meant to be hidden under a shirt) and a side zipper." The Slim-X jean is "a traditional five-pocket jean with a lower, but still high, rise that shirts can be tucked into."
Both cuts of jeans have "patent-pending hidden shaping features that create a perky rear and all-around slimming fit."
The Signature and the Slim-x will be offered in skinny, straight and bootleg cuts. The jeans are priced to start at $148 and will only be available in Spanx stores and online at Spanx.com.


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nuclear blast
Uranium is the energy investment of choice for a growing number of hedge funds, who say a sixfold gain since 2001 is just the beginning of a rally that will last years."We're in a historic uranium shortage," James Passin of New York-based Firebird Management told Bloomberg. "We're in a global nuclear revival."Uranium achieved a record $60/lb in 2006, and may rise to $70 by January after a flood at Cameco Corp's Cigar Lake mine, says Jean-Francois Tardif of Sprott Asset Management, headed by Eric...
More on Energy
7 days in 60 seconds
Repo, MVA and securitisation
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Herald staff | firstname.lastname@example.com
Published: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:01 a.m.
Graduation rates at Snohomish County high schools
There are many measures for how well a school educates its students. Graduation rates are one, and they vary. Alternative schools often lag because their students are at risk of dropping out — for any number of reasons: They might be homeless or English language learners. They might be in unstable families. They might have mental health problems or be abusing drugs or alcohol. Below is a list of most high schools in Snohomish and Island counties and each school's on-time graduation rates, or how many among all students graduated within four years.
Search for your school's graduation rates [Return to search again]
Click here to load this Caspio Online Database.
Key to dataClick through above to find in-depth data on any school. Here is how to interpret it: On-time grads: On-time graduates are students who took four years to graduate from high school. The numbers include students who changed high schools over the years. Total grads: Total graduates include students who took more than four years to graduate, but still did earn a diploma. On-time grads percentage: On-time graduation percentage relates to the total size of a class who started at a high school and the number who received a diploma four years later.
Raising grad ratesThe Everett School District has been able to improve its on-time graduation rate from just 53 percent on time in 2003 to nearly 82 percent in the 2009-10 school year. It did so in part by identifying students during their freshman year who might be in trouble academically and at risk of dropping out. It has also hired "success coordinators" so that when a student fails a class, the family is contacted and a plan is devised to help them succeed in class and graduate.
Story tags » • Education & Schools
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A stunning time-lapse from the Deep Space Climate Observatory includes that time the moon "photobombed" our home planet.
In this week's crime blotter: Filipinos detained on suspicion of smuggling and an ivory kingpin jailed for 20 years.
Genes influence who we are—and now we can manipulate them.
We live an average of 71 years—a drop in the bucket compared with some of nature's life spans.
Boldly go outside and spot some of the real-life counterparts of the show's habitable M-class planets.
The Pilcomayo River in Paraguay is littered with dead caiman and fish carcasses as the government scrambles to find a solution.
Animal News From National Geographic


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Help! I've installed the plugin correctly for my version of WordPress. The password box is showing up on my website, but any time someone tries to comment, this comes up:
Error 1: Click back and type in the password.
I believe it is actually installed correctly because the password field is coming up. I've tested it many times, but even though I enter the password, it won't let me leave a comment.
Here is my site: http://www.courtney-mcmanaway.com


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Neil Clarke, publisher of Clarkesworld, is editor of the Best Science Fiction of the Year: Volume One from Night Shade Books this year. He selected a range to be published in the anthology, and since it apparently doesn't encompass everything he wanted, he also has a recommended reading list for best science fiction of 2015. "Liminal Grid" is on that list!
A Probability of Being
Friday, June 24, 2016
"Liminal Grid" On Best SF Reading Recs List!
Labels: fiction
Thursday, June 16, 2016
Hidden Youth, Hidden Histories, and Names
And I'm in it!
Lim Jia was raised by the local monks, and has the ability to see the spirits of the departed. Jia joins the Chinese Commission to Cuba as a clerk to search for a long-lost brother, and finds many others long lost in the process.
Lim Jia was raised by the local monks, and has the ability to see the spirits of the departed. Jia joins the Chinese Commission to Cuba as a clerk to search for a long-lost brother, and finds many others long lost in the process.
Labels: i write, short story
Thursday, June 2, 2016
New poem!
I'm pleased to announce that I'm in recompose magazine #1: tropospheric scofflaw! And very very honoured that my poem, "Sweetness and Light," opens the magazine to a set of very interesting flash fiction!
"Sweetness and Light" began with an idea of the very first two lines: "when she speaks, sweetness and light spill forth / literally." What would that be like, to live like that? Combined with rape culture and the entitlement of society towards young women's bodies and time, I decided to explore what would happen if boundaries were crossed too often for a person who lived with this phenomenon.
Friday, May 20, 2016
WisCon40 Schedule
I will be attending WisCon40! Here is my schedule for the weekend:
YES, Our Stories Matter: Encouragement and Support For Creators With Marginalized Identities
Friday, 4pm - 5.15pm, University C
Jaymee Goh (M), Riley, Alex Jennings, Mark Oshiro, Susan Simensky Bietila
Marginalization affects our success as creators, oppression impacts our ability to create and can grind us down. At the same time, encouragement can come in many ways, from reader comments to supporting each other as marginalized creators. Let's discuss issues like: Why do you keep creating? When do you know you've touched someone with your art? How do you recharge after a setback? How can we support each other within and between different marginalized groups? When it feels like the whole world is telling you that your story doesn't matter, where do you find the strength to pick up the pen?
The Downsides to Maker Culture
Sat, 9:00–10:15 pm, Conference 1
Georgie L. Schnobrich (M), Candra K. Gill, Jaymee Goh, Effie Seiberg
Maker culture as promoted by BoingBoing and others has a great deal of appeal to fans (robots, DIY, what's not to love?) but what are its underlying assumptions? Deb Chachra* declared that she is not a "Maker;" critiquing Maker culture as valuing certain forms of making over others (i.e. traditionally male forms of creativity like electronics vs. traditionally female forms like knitting) and which also values creation over other forms of contribution to society (like caregiving). Does it reinforce divisions based on class and entitlement as the ability to make also suggests that the maker has both the time and money to create? Does it indeed reinforce the idea that traditionally male roles are better? *See http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/why-i-am-not-a-maker/384767
Science Fiction in Translation
Sun, 10:00–11:15 am, Caucus
Jaymee Goh (M), Arrate Hidalgo, S. Qiouyi Lu
As Anglo SFF as a whole becomes more aware of the Rest Of The World, translation projects seem ready to see a boom. Let's hear it from translators: how difficult is it to translate SFF concepts from one language to another? What trends are we noticing in what types of stories get translated, from which regions? What SF-nal influences are visible across borders? What can readers and editors do to increase the amount of translated fiction in the genre's magazines?
Asian Ancestresses
Sun, 1:00–2:15 pm, Conference 1
Jaymee Goh (M), Emily Jiang, Mary Anne Mohanraj
From Mulan, to Begum Nur Jahan, to Princess Shirin, to the Lady of Mount Ledang, the mythologies and histories of Asia are filled with women who tower large, rivaling the men of their times despite the unequal footing. How were their stories told to us when we were children? How did we find out more about them? What lessons can we take from their stories? And how do we re-tell them and partake in their legacies today?
Women Writing SFF, All Around The World!
Sun, 2:30–3:45 pm, Wisconsin
Jaymee Goh (M), Jackie Hatton, Arrate Hidalgo, Emily Jiang, Justine Larbalestier
A reading recommendation panel! What books would be of interest to WisCon members? Whether Anglophone, in translation, or in different languages, from Indigenous to diaspora works, let's share SFF we've read recently that encourages USian WisCon members to step out of our cultural bubbles.
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Fri 31 Aug 2007
How Long Does it Take For Propecia To Work?Category: Non Surgical Treatments , Propecia (Finasteride)
When i start taking Propecia, how long until it takes effect? Does it take a few weeks in your system before it starts blocking DHT or is it immediate? Thanks.
Thank you for your inquiry.
Finasteride (marketed as Propecia) starts to work right away however, it might take up to 3 months to see less hair loss. In order to see any visual effects such as the thickening and strengthening of miniaturized hairs, it takes up to 6-12 months.
Please understand that you may experience additional shedding over the first couple months. This is actually normal and an indication that the hair loss medication is working.
Managing Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center
View my Hair Loss Weblog
Technorati Tags: Propecia, DHT, Finasteride, hair loss, miniaturized hairs, hair loss medication
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229 Responses to "How Long Does it Take For Propecia To Work?"
Matt Says:
July 12th, 2013 at 7:05 am
I have also heard that Finasteride can take away the itch/inflammation because it blocks DHT from forming, thus stopping the immune response. Have you heard this as well?
Matt Says:
July 12th, 2013 at 7:07 am
(I meant to say David)
John Says:
July 13th, 2013 at 3:05 am
i am 25 yrs old and was using finastride 1mg along with minoxidil for about 6 months at the age of 18 and the result was empressive but unfortunately couldnt do so regularly and were delays like from time to time eventually i had to stop it at the age of 23 for one year , but again started using only finastride 1mg for 11 months now and i yet to see any visible changes. i have to say that my dad and my older brother were both bald at my age they were but i still have an eighty percent covered head with hair which gives me some hope not to stop .also, my hair is thinner than prior to the use time i really want to know what your suggestion is .tnx
David (TakingThePlunge) Says:
July 15th, 2013 at 1:47 am
Some men report itching and redness accompanying hair loss. However, there is no data to prove the correlation between the two.
We can lose up to 50% of our hair before hair loss becomes detectable. Thus, visual inspection is not always the best measure of balding.
If you have not yet done so, I highly recommend consulting with a dermatologist or hair restoration physician for a thorough examination.
You may find that a quality dandruff shampoo like Nizoral will help with the itching and redness.
Best of luck!
Ashley Says:
July 16th, 2013 at 6:23 am
Hi I am a 22 year old male and have been on Propecia for 8 weeks now. I have started to notice that my eyebrow and eyelash hairs are falling out as well as well as having noticed a small patch on my facial hair, I was wondering is this normal as I am absolutely terrified as I haven't read anything about eyelash or eyebrow hairs falling out. Do I carry on with the propecia, I don't know what to do Please help.
I also wanted to know can you work out whilst on propecia as I really want to start working out but I have heard that protein shakes and regular exercise increases testosterone, will working out make my hair fall quicker or make it worse?
Jack Says:
July 16th, 2013 at 6:30 am
ever since I have been on propecia (9 weeks), nothings changed for me, my hair is still falling out at the same rate as before propecia, the shedding has not Increased or decreased, Is this normal as I`m worried it may not be working for me.
I also have extremely greasy hair now as well as lots of dandruff which I have never had before, Currently I use head and shoulders shampoo, can you recommend a better to combat this please?
Ashley Says:
July 16th, 2013 at 9:43 am
I am a 21 year old male and have been on propecia for about 8 weeks now, I have noticed that my eyebrow and eyelash hairs are falling out rapidly, is this a side effect of propecia as I haven't heard about it and am very worried, should I carry on taking it?
Another thing is can I work out whilst on propecia as I'm thinking of starting to go to the gym but with protein shakes and regular exercise, this raises testosterone, I want to know if its safe as I don't want to make more hair fall out or make it worse.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Ashley Says:
July 18th, 2013 at 9:58 am
Sorry for double post, first time I submitted, it disappeared
Blake aka - FutureHTDoc Says:
July 18th, 2013 at 11:51 pm
You may want to consider an appointment with a dermatologist to discuss your scalp issues. Frankly, there are quite a few shampoos that may help, and an appointment with a physician who is well versed in these products would probably be useful!
Blake (Future_HT_Doc)
Editorial Assistant
Blake aka - FutureHTDoc Says:
July 18th, 2013 at 11:54 pm
Hi Ashley,
Thinning body hair can be a side effect of reduced dihydrotestosteorone (DHT) levels. However, I don't think I've ever heard of this occurring in the eyebrows. I think it may be good to schedule an appointment with the physician who prescribed the medication and evaluate the loss.
Most experts agree that protein and exercise do not cause hair loss. What's more, most men taking Propecia demonstrate normal testosterone levels.
Good luck!
Blake (Future_HT_Doc)
Editorial Assistant
Kalkan Says:
August 7th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
I am 26 and I have been on propecia for 1 month now. Since last week I have notice that I have very greasy hair, dandruffs and an itching scalp accompnied with abundant hair loss (which I had never had before taking propecia). I'm also experiencing painful testicles (the right one especially)
Is this normal ? I've heard about the hyperandrogenic effect, does it concern me ?
Thank you !
Leo Says:
August 8th, 2013 at 11:54 am
am a 58 year male. I have been suffering from mild to severe scalp irritation along with hair loss for over 30 years. I have a family history of hair loss on male side of my family. The irritation has been progressively worse over past 6 months with increased hair loss. I saw doctors including dermatologists several times over past year. They indicated that I seborrehea dermatitus, lichen planopilarius and burning scalp syndrome etc. In other words, they were not sure what was causing the scalp irritation (burning/itching).
Finally out of frustration, I went to doctor and requested that I be prescribed Propecia (1 mg/day) for the scalp irritation. I have been on propecia for 3 weeks now and irrigation has been dramatically REDUCED.
My research indicated that the irritation was due to the DHT in my system attaching to the hair follicles on my scalp and my body's antimmune system was interpreting that my hair follicles was a foreign body, hence the irritation. The propecia reduced the DHT on my scalp which reduced the irritation. It will also have the additional benefit of regrowing hair.
L from Ottawa, Canada
David aka - TakingthePlunge Says:
August 13th, 2013 at 1:25 am
Kalkan ,
Greasy hair, dandruff and itchy scalp are not known side effects of Propecia (finasteride). However, testicle pain and shedding are both common within the first few weeks of starting the drug.
Typically, this pain subsides in time and the shed hairs will regrow. But, as with any prescription drug, it is important that you discuss any side effects or health concerns with your prescribing physician.
David aka - TakingthePlunge Says:
August 13th, 2013 at 1:29 am
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Best of luck!
Kalkan Says:
August 23rd, 2013 at 4:29 am
Thank you for your answer. The pain in my testicles has disappeared which is good news.
However, the excess of sebum on my scalp has gotten worse. I have talked to my doctor about it and he says it is normal and prescribed a shampoo for seborrheic dermatitis but nothing improved so far. This is really difficult to live with.
Don't you think I might be experiencing a bad reaction to the drug ?
Thank you very much for your help
David aka - TakingthePlunge Says:
August 26th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
I'm not a physician but to my knowledge Propecia is not known to increase sebum production. But, if you feel that finasteride is causing the problem, you may wish to reduce your dosage to .5mg daily and see if there is any positive change.
Continuing to follow up with your physician and following his advice is the best thing you can do at this point.
I'm glad to hear that the testicle pain has subsided.
Best of luck!
Naveen yadav Says:
November 6th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
i have been taking finpecia for almost 8 months now,after 1 month hair fall was stopped.but over the last couple of weeks I have noticed that my hair is shedding/thinning a lot more almost 50 hairs a day.
why is it happening ? have finpecia stop responding? will i get my hair back ?because now my scalp is totally visible.
Thanks in advance
Jason Says:
January 27th, 2014 at 11:47 am
To those of you who are answering our questions on this page, I just want to say thank you. I don't have any questions about Finasteride – have been using it for 6 months – because of your clear answers to other questions here. Thanks so much for addressing any concerns we have. Take care this year.
adam Says:
February 24th, 2014 at 12:51 pm
I have a full head of hair at the moment, and recently made a terrible error by using a substance that can speed up mpb.
I have noticed hairs coming out more regularly than what I would consider normal. my hair line is slightly receding and so I have started to take Finasteride I haven't even been taking it for a week yet and so nothing to report. however after reading the many entries on this site regarding shedding 3-4 months in can some one actually tell me what this means? does it meant the hair and the back and around crown (which are fine) may also shed or just the thinning ones at the front where my hair is starting to recede? thanks for your responses in advance.
James Says:
June 6th, 2014 at 10:29 am
Hi i am currently taking propecia and have been on it for a year and am wanting to start nizoral shampoo but am scared as i have heard hair shedds alot although i didnt notice any hair shedding when starting propecia (is this normal).
Any way how long do i use nizoral shampoo as on the box it states for 3 months, so if i use it twice a week forever its not going to have a negative effect is it?
tony Says:
July 31st, 2014 at 4:53 am
i use fernistride and minoxidile together for almost 3 weeks and my hair turns grey and also i noticed a lot hair shedding 70 a day should i worry about it and can a shampoo also help along with these medicine to stop hair shedding if you can tell me little bit about shampoo and my worries
Jay Says:
September 2nd, 2014 at 8:51 pm
Hi David,
I've been using generic finasteride for about three months now, I'm a week into my fourth. At this stage, the shedding phase should have stopped I presume but I'm still shedding a lot of hair daily (about 100-150). Does this mean that the medication isn't working and that I should stop taking it?
Karim Says:
September 28th, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Hi there everyone. I am only 16 years old. My hair is quite thin and most of my family has male baldness pattern. I want to start using propecia as I see it is better to start early than late. The only thing that worries me is the possibility that it causes more hair loss in addition to that is the 3 month shedding at the beginning. I am not worried about the side effects. I finished my puberty too I still don't have a beard yet but I won't mind not having one lol. Do you guys think it is sensible to start using it?
Rob Says:
September 6th, 2015 at 8:21 pm
Hi I took Propecia for four months and in this time a lot of shedding occurred. I had to stop because I was experiencing strange side effects but a year had passed since since then and the hair I lost from the original shed never came back. Does shed hair come back if you stop taking propecia?
Ali Says:
September 12th, 2015 at 3:24 pm
I'm using finasteride 1mg for about 6 months, still nothing is happened. I have visited a doctor, she told me that after every 3 months of usage, I have to stop using the pills for one month and again start using it for next three months. so every three months there should be a month resting and not eating the pills. Is it correct? or I have to use the pills regularly, every day?
Chris Says:
October 19th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
I am 26 years old and have inherited an androgenic hair loss from my father. I have lost too much hair and I am a NW5 now. It has been four and a half month since I've started my treatment (Biotin+prp+finasteride 1mg+minoxidil solution 5%+Nizrol+Alpecin C1). At the beginning, I completely shaved my head and noticed afterwards that some hair follicles are growing at a much slower pace, resulting in some hair being shorter in length than the others. Like others, I also experienced an initial fast shedding which almost stopped after 2 and 1/2 month.
After 4 month of treatment, I noticed my hair thickening as well as some new hair regrowth. I also received some compliments from my family and friends on my hairs being improved.
What makes me very much concerned is that during the past few weeks, my hair has started shedding AGAIN!!! (especially the short (not fully grown after shaving) and thin hair follicles). Do you think that it's normal at this stage?
I am also experiencing some hair loss at the sides and back of my head. I am really worried about my hair loss problem. Should I still continue the medication?
Brian Says:
November 21st, 2015 at 4:18 am
I also take propecia. I have taken it for at least a year.
I still have shedding phases but depending on how active I am and how actively I am taking care of my hair affects my hair.
Currently it is thinning and fragile, and I am using Nioxin on top of Rogaine + Finasteride. I just started though, working out more, taking lots of vitamins, drinking lots of water, taking enough proteins and vitamin D, Saw Palmetto…
Point is, I have the MPB (Male Pattern Baldness), or baldness for short, gene in my genetics. My dad is bald. He started going bald at 27. I noticed my hairline receding by the time I was 22. Then again I was in college and drinking a lot so that might have accelerated the hair loss.
Got on propecia / finasteride at the age of 24-25. Seem some results, but for it to work at full capacity and achieve maximum fullness, thickness, and regrow of hair you have to take it for about five years.
I like having hair on my head. I think it's a good feature. If all else fails I will get an FUE hair transplant
Brian Says:
November 21st, 2015 at 4:22 am
Propecia / finasteride involves multiple shedding instances, it is throwing out the weak follicles, strengthening the strong follicles, making them thicker, slowing overall hair loss, and ability to foster regrowth if taken daily with other regimen
Seek Saw Palmetto out. It's a DHT blocker. Take it with Propecia/finasteride, rogaine, red pimento oil, multivitamin, b complex, 4000iu D, fish oil, and anti-breaking conditioner (made for women but it's the best conditioner I've ever tried so I'm using it).
Nioxin 1 treatment, sans the conditioner, which I am using a different one of.
I apply the Red Pimento oil once or twice a week, put on a cap, or use a hair dryer to heat it up, stimulating follicle growth.
I have places where I had completely dead-looking follicle sites, and after red pimento oil I grew the hair back.
Raj Says:
January 7th, 2016 at 3:16 am
I hv been on finpecia(finasteride? For three months and 10 days now… the hairloss has reduced a bit… when i try to style my hair now i shed hair at tyms… though earlier i used to shed 3-4 hairs after running my hand through my hair single time. Now i dont lose that much hair. Bt still now also suddenly and rarely i lose abt 3-4 hairs while styling. Does it mean dat finasteride is not working? And if i dont shampoo for 2-3 days can it cause more hairs to fall? And finally… can Frequent masterbutation reduce the influence of finasteride?


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Despite pleas from the aviation industry -- and airports in particular -- the Senate appears unlikely to pass an FAA reauthorization bill by year's end. The Senate Finance Committee has yet to approve the measure, which would then require a debate by the full Senate followed by a conference to iron out differences with the House bill. The agency's current temporary authorization -- its seventh in two years -- is set to expire Dec. 31.
Full Story:AviationWeek.com


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THE HAGUE The prosecutor for the world's top war crimes court said on Friday informal contact has been made with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the fugitive son of former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, in order to arrest him and bring him to trial.
The International Criminal Court (ICC) charged Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam and Libya's former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi with crimes against humanity for the bombing and shooting of civilian protesters in February.
Abdel Majid Mlegta, a senior military official of Libya's National Transitional Council, told Reuters on Wednesday that Saif al-Islam and Senussi wanted to surrender to the ICC in The Hague because they felt unsafe in Libya, Algeria or Niger.
A NTC source said on Thursday Saif al-Islam wanted an aircraft, possibly arranged by a neighboring country, to take him out of Libya's southern desert and into ICC custody.
Under such a deal, Saif al-Islam would be taken to The Hague where the ICC shares a detention unit with the U.N. Yugoslavia war crimes tribunal and the Special Court for Sierra Leone, where former Liberian president Charles Taylor is on trial.
ICC spokesman Fadi El Abdallah on Friday declined to say where Saif al-Islam is hiding.
"If we reach agreement, logistical measures for his transfer will be taken," Abdallah said, adding that this might take some time. "It is not possible to discuss logistics or make presumptions about what is needed at this stage. There are different scenarios depending on what country he is in."
The ICC has no police force of its own, and therefore has to rely on state cooperation to have suspects arrested.
Some suspects remain at large, such as Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, whose government has snubbed the court.
The Dutch authorities typically assist the Hague-based courts in transferring suspects to the detention center.
For example, former Bosnian Serb military commander Ratko Mladic was flown to Rotterdam on a Serbian government plane and then transferred by the Dutch authorities by helicopter or car to the detention center in The Hague.
"The ICC itself is responsible for transfers to the Netherlands. Upon arrival of a suspect in the Netherlands, we give logistical support," a Dutch foreign ministry spokesman said.
If Saif al-Islam were to slip into Niger, an ICC member state, the Niger government has an obligation to arrest him. Tunisia and Mali are also member states, whereas Algeria is not.
"The question is to what extent these countries are ready to manage the pressure that will be put on them by an ICC transfer as it will have implications for them with other African countries," said Damien Helly at the European Union Institute for Security Studies.
The African Union has criticized the ICC's focus on Africa and has opposed the arrest warrant for Sudan's Bashir, who has traveled to ICC member states Malawi, Chad, Kenya and Djibouti in the past without being arrested.
Helly questioned whether Saif al-Islam was "desperately trying to save his life" or whether his offer to surrender was a way of buying time or bargaining to improve his situation.
The detention center, in a leafy residential neighborhood of The Hague, is next to an old prison where Dutch resistance fighters were imprisoned by the Nazis.
Inmates stay in single-occupant cells about 10 square meters, where they can watch TV, read or work on their cases.
Each cell in the ICC wing contains a bed, desk, bookshelves, a cupboard, toilet, hand basin and a telephone, although calls are placed by the centre's staff.
Detainees can use computers to work on their cases, but cannot access email or the internet. They can also play sports and pursue other hobbies.
On arrival, Saif al-Islam would first appear in court to be formally charged and informed of his rights.
ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo accused Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam and al-Senussi of drawing up a "predetermined plan" to kill protesters and said that Gaddafi gave the orders, while Saif al-Islam organized the recruitment of mercenaries.
Peter Robinson, a legal adviser to former Bosnian Serb president Radovan Karadzic who is on trial at the Yugoslavia tribunal, said Saif al-Islam should not try to defend himself by arguing that he was just obeying his father's orders.
"A person is required under international law not to obey an illegal order," Robinson said, adding that a more useful defense would be to argue that crimes were committed on orders from lower-level commanders.
Geert-Jan Knoops, a Dutch-based international criminal law attorney, said Saif al-Islam could challenge the ICC case on two main fronts -- that there was an "abuse of process" or that evidence of a "political plan" to kill protesters was lacking.
He said Saif al-Islam could argue that the ICC prosecution was politically influenced and forced by the United Nations to seek regime change instead of protecting human rights in Libya.
"It can be argued that the ICC prosecution and procedures are abused; in other words: abuse of process," Knoops said.
(Reporting by Aaron Gray-Block; Editing by Sara Webb and Alistair Lyon)
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