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Charente-Maritime/Bahia Transat 6.50 - Forced to abandon his boat
by Veronique Largeau amended Sail-World.com on 25 Oct 2011
Mathieu Claveau - La Charente-Maritime/Bahia Transat 6.50 2011 © Pierrick Garenne / GPO
La Charente-Maritime/Bahia Transat 6.50 skipper Mathieu Claveau (405 – Okoume Les chevaux du Beal) is on board the escort boat Edulis, forced to abandon his boat at sea after a collision with an unidentified floating object last night.
The unidentified floating object severely damaged his hull and also caused substantial leaks on board. The water level rose rapidly and forced Mathieu to start the standard procedure for external help request by pressing the red button on his beacon and releasing his sarsat beacon. He has been evacuated off his boat.
A cargo ship was diverted by 45 miles toward the area and the escort boat Edulis was diverted by the Race Organizers. In agreement with the MRCC, which oversaw the operation, the cargo was asked to be on the weather-beam and athwart the sea to protect Mathieu during his evacuation. Mathieu had boarded his life raft and two Edulis's crew members caught him and his first aid bag - which he had carefully prepared. Mathieu will remain on board of Edulis until Bahia.
Mathieu' statement - by Iridium: 'I had 10 knots of wind when it happened. I was asleep and I was awakened by a great shock. I had made more sails and then, while I was looking inside the boat, I saw the water gushing under my kitchen board. I went down, I plunged in my hand and I felt the wood of the hull that had exploded. I think that I hit a metal object which destroyed my hull. The boat was filled with water in an hour. I tried to bail out but I quickly realized that this was not possible and that it was completely useless. I had battery up until half an hour before the arrival of the cargo ship and Edulis in the area. I was surprised that everyone was there so quickly. I had everything prepared to stay one or two days without help. All is fine... '
Also Australian skipper Scott Cavanough (797 - brainchild.org.au) at low speeds at 6 a.m (UTC), confirmed - via his beacon - that he has a technical problem on board his proto at 10:00 a.m. Rudder problem? Mast problem? The race director asked an escort boat to divert to the area to know more and get in touch with him by VHF.
On October 22nd Brendan Archin ( 757 - Association La Touline) informed the race director - via his beacon - that he had a technical problem aboard and was diverting to Mindelo once again.
Bert Bossyns (585 - Felicity II) told the race director that he had been forced to withdraw from the
La Charente-Maritime/Bahia Transat website
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text: 000 AWUS83 KOAX 190845 RWSOAX IAZ043-055-056-069-079-080-090-091-NEZ011-012-015>018-030>034- 042>045-050>053-065>068-078-088>093-191645- Weather Summary for Eastern Nebraska and Southwest Iowa National Weather Service Omaha/Valley NE 345 AM CDT TUE JUL 19 2016 An upper level disturbance will move across the midlands today... with scattered showers and thunderstorms. Chances will be highest over eastern Nebraska and southwest Iowa this morning and into the early afternoon. Otherwise...rain chances will be fairly low through Thursday night and heat will be the main weather issue. A large dome of high pressure in the mid levels of the atmosphere is expected to build over the southern and central Plains. The combination of heat and humidity has prompted the issuance of a variety of watch...warning and advisory products to address the heat for the next several days. High temperatures today across mid America should range from the upper 80s to around 100. Lows tonight will be mostly in the 70s. $$ Miller


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All News
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Sam Smith - Lay Me Down
Posted 3 years ago
Tags: Sam Smith , Editors Picks , Indie , R And B Pop
Disclosure and Jimmy Napes
This may be the first time you've heard of Sam Smith, but it's unlikely to be your last. An unsigned soul buzzmaker hailing from the UK, the artist showcases his talent for soaring balladry on the newly-released Lay Me Down. Disclosure & Jimmy Napes craft a lush, piano-led instrumental that slowly picks up steam as Smith pours out his heart to the woman he loves, building to an explosive, string-drenched climax. This record is neither a single nor part of any larger project, but y'all know the drill: if you like what you're hearing, simply keep your browsers locked on our front page for all the latest from this promising newcomer.
Sam Smith Editors PicksIndieR And B Pop
Written by richard
Posted 3 years ago
Get The PLUG app by DJBooth and get the best hip-hop writing and news delivered daily.
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Sample Text - Sample Link


text:
The requirement Call C# function from classic ASP.
The solution
After hours of research i was able to call a c# function from classic asp. I feel i have done so many steps (below). Not sure if this is the right way. Looking for expert suggestion.
Development Machine: VS 2010 Production Server: Windows 2008 with Framework 4 installed
Steps followed to create com dll in C# (development machine)
- Create a class library project
Pasted the following code
using System; using System.Collections.Generic; using System.Linq; using System.Text; using System.Runtime.InteropServices;
namespace cominter { [Guid("EAA4976A-45C3-4BC5-BC0B-E474F4C3C83F")] public interface ComClass1Interface { string test();
} [Guid("0D53A3E8-E51A-49C7-944E-E72A2064F938"), ClassInterface(ClassInterfaceType.None)] [ComVisibleAttribute(true)] public class ComClass1 : ComClass1Interface { public string test() { return "vivek"; } }
in the properties-> build, check Register for COM Interop
- in the properties-> Signing, check sign the assembly. created a key file
- built the solution
- used regasm /regfile to create regfile
Steps followed in Server 2008 (production) to install the dll
Copied gacutil.exe and gacutil.exe.config from development machine C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\Bin\NETFX 4.0 Tools\ to the server C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319
ran the registry file generated from the development machine
Is there a better way? I'm also not sure if all the steps above are required. Any expert suggestion would be great.
what is the use of GUID above teh class name and the inter face name. is it really required? i just copied this from msdn. if it is required, should i create my own id or leave it. is there a tool to create this guid
is interface required. can it work without interface?
is creating key necessary. When i installed this dll in production, I didn't copy the key file.
what are the files to be copied. i copied dll and tlb file and ran the gacutil
is there a better way of installing this com dll
i ran the registry script. is this required?


text:
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text:
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Voting on the Montauk Library's budget proposal of a little more than $900,000 will take place at the library on Wednesday from noon to 7 p.m. The tax rate increase is $1.54 per $1,000 of assessed valuation, which comes to a rate of $27.19. The library's other income sources include payments in lieu of taxes, the Friends of the Montauk Library, fines, fees, and interest.
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Members of the Montauk Playhouse Community Center Foundation visited the Montauk Citizens Advisory Committee on Monday to unveil the foundation's latest plan for the building's aquatic and cultural centers.


text:
Wikipedia:Pending changes/Testing/1
Screenshot of wiktionary.org home page
|Web address
|The Free Dictionary
Type of site
|Available in
|Multi-lingual (over 170)
|Wikimedia Foundation
|Created by
|Jimmy Wales and the Wikimedia community
|December 12, 2002
Alexa rank
|661 (February 2013[update])[1]
|Current status
Wiktionary (from the words wiki and dictionary) is a multilingual, web-based project to create a free content dictionary, available in 158 languages. Unlike standard dictionaries, it is written collaboratively by volunteers, dubbed "Wiktionarians", using wiki software, allowing articles to be changed by almost anyone with access to the website.
Like its sister project Wikipedia, Wiktionary is run by the Wikimedia Foundation. Because Wiktionary is not limited by print space considerations, most of Wiktionary's language editions provide definitions and translations of words from many languages, and some editions offer additional information typically found in thesauri and lexicons. Additionally, the English Wiktionary includes Wikisaurus, a category that serves as a thesaurus, including lists of slang words, and the Simple English Wiktionary, compiled using the Basic English subset of the English language.
The goal of Wiktionary is to eventually define "all words in all languages."[2]
History and development[edit]
Wiktionary was brought online on December 12, 2002,[3] following a proposal by Daniel Alston and an idea by Larry Sanger, co-founder of Wikipedia.[4] On March 28, 2004, the first non-English Wiktionaries were initiated in French and Polish. Wiktionaries in numerous other languages have since been started. Wiktionary was hosted on a temporary domain name (wiktionary.wikipedia.org) until May 1, 2004, when it switched to the current domain name.[5] As of May 2009[ref], Wiktionary features well over 5 million entries across its 272 language editions. The largest of the language editions is the English Wiktionary, with over 3.2 million entries. The French Wiktionary is the second largest with over 2.3 million entries. Nineteen Wiktionary language editions now contain over 100,000 entries each.[6]
Most of the entries and many of the definitions at the project's largest language editions were created by bots that found creative ways to generate entries or (rarely) automatically imported thousands of entries from previously published dictionaries. Seven of the 18 bots registered at the English Wiktionary[7] created 163,000 of the entries there.[8] Only 259 entries remain (each containing many definitions) on Wiktionary from the original import by Websterbot from public domain sources; the majority of those imports have been split out to thousands of proper entries manually. Another one of these bots, "ThirdPersBot," was responsible for the addition of a number of third-person conjugations that would not receive their own entries in standard dictionaries; for instance, it defined "smoulders" as the "third-person singular simple present form of smoulder." Excluding these 163,000 entries, the English Wiktionary would have about 137,000 entries, including terms unique to languages other than English, making it smaller than most monolingual print dictionaries. The Oxford English Dictionary, for instance, has 615,000 headwords, while Merriam-Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged has 475,000 entries (with many additional embedded headwords). It should be noted, though, that more detailed statistics now exist to distinguish more clearly the main entries from sub-entries.
The English Wiktionary, however does not rely on bots to the extent that newer editions do. The French and Vietnamese Wiktionaries, for example, imported large sections of the Free Vietnamese Dictionary Project (FVDP), which provides free content bilingual dictionaries to and from Vietnamese.[9] These imported entries make up virtually all of the Vietnamese edition's offering. The French Wiktionary grew rapidly in 2006 thanks in large part to bots copying many entries from old, freely licensed dictionaries, such as the eighth edition of the Dictionnaire de l'Académie française (1935, around 35,000 words), and using bots to add words from other Wiktionary editions with French translations. The Russian edition grew by nearly 80,000 entries as "LXbot" added boilerplate entries (with headings, but without definitions) for words in English and German.[10]
The various Wiktionary language editions use mainly two logo designs. The English Wiktionary and some others currently use a textual logo designed for the initial Wiktionary by Brion Vibber, a MediaWiki developer.[11] A four-phase contest held at the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki from September to October 2006[12] did not see as much participation from the Wiktionary community as some community members had hoped. The logo that won was designed by "Smurrayinchester" but was not accepted by all communities.[13] In April 2009, the issue was resurrected, with a new vote for project-wide logo, which failed.[14] The Spanish Wiktionary switched its logo from the original textual design to a variation of the wooden tile design after it reached its 75,000th entry in mid-2012.[citation needed]
As of January 25, 2012, 31 wikis (representing 48 % of Wiktionary) use the original textual design by Vibber, 136 (51 %) the design by "Smurrayinchester".[15]
To ensure accuracy, Wiktionary has a policy[2] stating that entries should be attested, that is, verified through either:
- Clearly widespread use, or
- Usage in a well-known work, or
- Usage in permanently recorded media, conveying meaning, in at least three independent instances spanning at least a year, or
- For terms in extinct languages: usage in at least one contemporaneous source.
Critical reception[edit]
Critical reception of Wiktionary has been mixed. In 2006 Jill Lepore wrote in the article "Noah's Ark" for The New Yorker,[16]
- There's no show of hands at Wiktionary. There's not even an editorial staff. "Be your own lexicographer!", might be Wiktionary's motto. Who needs experts? Why pay good money for a dictionary written by lexicographers when we could cobble one together ourselves?
- Wiktionary isn't so much republican or democratic as Maoist. And it's only as good as the copyright-expired books from which it pilfers.
Keir Graff's review for Booklist was less critical:
Is there a place for Wiktionary? Undoubtedly. The industry and enthusiasm of its many creators are proof that there's a market. And it's wonderful to have another strong source to use when searching the odd terms that pop up in today's fast-changing world and the online environment. But as with so many Web sources (including this column), it's best used by sophisticated users in conjunction with more reputable sources.[citation needed]
References in other publications are fleeting and part of larger discussions of Wikipedia, not progressing beyond a definition, although David Brooks in The Nashua Telegraph described it as wild and woolly.[17] (Wooly is defined as "confused" and "unrestrained."[18]) One of the impediments to independent coverage of Wiktionary is the continuing confusion that it is merely an extension of Wikipedia.[19] In 2005, PC Magazine rated Wiktionary as one of the Internet's "Top 101 Web Sites,"[20] although little information was given about the site.
The measure of correctness of the inflections for a subset of the Polish words in the English Wiktionary showed that this grammatical data is very stable. Only 131 out of 4748 Polish words have had their inflection data corrected.[21]
See also[edit]
- ^ "Wiktionary.org Site Info". Alexa Internet. Retrieved 2013-02-03.
- ^ a b "Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion – Wiktionary". En.wiktionary.org. 2012-02-23. Retrieved 2011-02-13.
- ^ Wikipedia mailing list archive discussion announcing the opening of the Wiktionary project – Retrieved May 3, 2011
- ^ Wikipedia mailing list archive discussion from Larry Sanger giving the idea on Wiktionary – Retrieved May 3, 2011
- ^ Wiktionary's current URL is www.wiktionary.org.
- ^ Wiktionary total article counts are here. Detailed statistics by word type are available here [1].
- ^ The user list at the English Wiktionary identifies accounts that have been given "bot status".
- ^ TheDaveBot, TheCheatBot, Websterbot, PastBot, NanshuBot
- ^ Hồ Ngọc Đức, Free Vietnamese Dictionary Project. Details at the Vietnamese Wiktionary.
- ^ LXbot[dead link]
- ^ "Wiktionary talk:Wiktionary Logo", English Wiktionary, Wikimedia Foundation.
- ^ "Wiktionary/logo", Meta-Wiki, Wikimedia Foundation.
- ^ "Wiktionary/logo", Wikimedia Meta-Wiki, Wikimedia Foundation.
- ^ "Wiktionary/logo/refresh/voting", Meta-Wiki, Wikimedia Foundation.
- ^ m:Wiktionary/logo#Logo use statistics.
- ^ The full article is not available on-line. Jill Lepore (November 6, 2006). "Noah's Ark" (Abstract). The New Yorker. Retrieved April 21, 2007.
- ^ David Brooks, "Online, interactive encyclopedia not just for geeks anymore, because everyone seems to need it now, more than ever!" The Nashua Telegraph (August 4, 2004)
- ^ "wooly". Wiktionary.
- ^ In this citation, the author refers to Wiktionary as part of the Wikipedia site: Adapted from an article by Naomi DeTullio (2006 (1st Quarter)). "Wikis for Librarians" (PDF). NETLS News #142 (Northeast Texas Library System). p. 15. Archived from the original (PDF newsletter) on 2007-06-05. Retrieved April 21, 2007. Check date values in:
- ^ "Wiktionary". Top 101 Web Sites. PC Magazine. April 6, 2005. Retrieved December 16, 2005.
- ^ Z. Kurmas (July 2010). Zawilinski: a library for studying grammar in Wiktionary. Proceedings of the 6th International Symposium on Wikis and Open Collaboration. Gdansk, Poland. Retrieved 2011-07-29. line feed character in
|date=at position 5 (help); Check date values in:
External links[edit]
- List of all Wiktionary editions
- Wiktionary front page
- Wiktionary's Multilingual Statistics
- Wikimedia's page on Wiktionary (including list of all existing Wiktionaries)
- Pages about Wiktionary in Meta.
- Meta:Main Page – OmegaWiki


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Summary | Excerpt | Reviews | Beyond the book | Readalikes | Genres & Themes | Author Bio
From the book jacket: In 1983 Muhammad Yunus established Grameen, a
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Skip to comments.Cardinals, Bishops, Theologians and Lay Apologists Speak-up for Marian Coredemption
Posted on 05/16/2007 1:51:59 PM PDT by Friar Roderic Mary
Ave Maria!
Recent initiatives in support of the Dogmatic Declaration of Marian Coredemption are springing up like May flowers in this Month of Mary and are the fruit of many years of dialogue and theological discussion organized by the Hierarchy, the Franciscans of the Immaculate, and Vox Popoli Mariae Mediatrici. This movement is supported by a wide range of theologians and lay people, and the initiatives have five main thrusts: Hierarchical, Theological, Popular Apologetical, a Video Series on the internet, and a Lay Petition drive.
A symposium was held on May 3rd to the 7th, 2005 in Fatima, Portugal, led by five Cardinals which the Franciscans of the Immaculate helped arrange. The gathering of over fifty bishops from around the world, including five cardinals, resulted in a book written by the nine cardinals listed bellow.
|Mary, Unique Cooperator in the Redemption
Why Mary should be dogmatically declared as Coredeemer
Authored by: Nine Cardinals of the Church and other Major Marian Theologians. Each of the nineteen presentations are printed in the language originally given by the speakers: seven in English, four in Spanish and eight in Italian. It addresses many of the ecumenical concerns raised in the past.
This book along with a petition by over forty Cardinals and Bishops in support of the dogma was presented to Pope Benedict XVI on June 3, 2006, by... His Eminence, Telesphore Cardinal Toppo of Ranchi, India
Here are just some of more than 60 Marian Theologians that have attended past International Coredemption Symposia in England and Fatima, Portugal, between 2000 and 2006:
These symposia resulted in the following 6 books available from Marymedatrix.com with a 7th book on the way:
And, the 8th International Symposium in this series is coming up in July 17-20, 2007 in Fatima, Portugal. See Video
With over 10 Cardinals, 40 Bishops and 60 major Marian Theologians, these events clearly out-weigh the 1996 Czestachowa Commission which came to a negative conclusion but had serious deficiencies and no hierarchy in attendance.
Upcoming Marian Coredemption Conference in Greenwood, Indiana, Oct 13, 2007. See Video
de Souza
Stay tuned to Air Maria for Dr. Miravalle's new Series on Coredemption in June.
an initiative by Dr. Mark Miravalle at Vox Popoli for a popular petition to Pope Benedict XVI. Let your voice be heard!!
|You can read the letter by Mark Miravalle about how you can submit your petition to the Holy Father and how these Bishops and Cardinals have already done so.
Mary is our Co-redemptrix with Jesus. She gave Jesus his body and suffered with him at the foot of the Cross.
Mary is the Mediatrix of all grace. She gave Jesus to us, and as our Mother she obtains for us all his graces.
Mary is our Advocate who prays to Jesus for us. It is only through the Heart of Mary that we come to the Eucharistic Heart of Jesus.
The papal definition of Mary as Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate will bring great graces to the Church.
All for Jesus through Mary.
God bless you,
M. Teresa, M.C.
Letter of Endorsement for the Papal Definition of Mary Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate , Mother Teresa of Calcutta, August 14, 1993.
Read what 20th Century Saints and Blesseds have to say about this doctrine in this Hagiography compiled by Fr. Stefano Manelli, founder of the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
Gemma Galgani
Pius X
Frances Xavier Cabrini
Pio of Pietrelcina
Leopold Mandic
Maximilian Mary Kolbe
Josemaria Escrivà
Edith Stein
Elizabeth of the Trinity
Bartolo Longo
Luigi Orione
James Alberione
Ildephonse Cardinal Schuster
And, finally, read what many others are saying.
Mother Mary, in our troubled times may we have the grace to call you Coredeemer, Mediatrix and Advocate!
Ave Maria!
Welcome to Free Republic! Your first post, and it's a well-formatted thread! I assume you've registered here before?
Ah yes. Marian coredemption.
The name however is misleading, making Mary co equal to Jesus. So unless they change the name, one doubts it will be passed.
The doctrine means that Mary as the first Christian and ineed all Christians are co partners in redeeming the world by our "yes" to God.
The biblical reference is in Paul, but I can't find it right now...something about talking about his sufferings and how they help complete Christ's redemptions.
The biblical reference is in Paul, but I cant find it right now...something about talking about his sufferings and how they help complete Christs redemptions."Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church." Col 1:24 (NIV)
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Thanks, Alex! I'm glad you like the formatting, it took me for ever :)
Ave Maria!
Fra Roderic
Our Lady of the Greenwood is MY parish!!! I am SO excited!
With all due respect, I doubt you'll see any dogmatic declarations coming out of Rome for the foreseeable future that could in any way adversely impact on the dialog between Rome and the Orthodox Churches. This one likely would. Assuming we can resolve the proper exercise of the Petrine Ministry, we will have quite enough to deal with discussing in a new Ecumenical Council Rome's post 7th Ecumenical Council dogmas without adding more divisive issues.
Just as a matter of curiosity, what heresy or problem would a "Coredemptrix" dogma address? If none, what is the point of such a dogma?
Mary, Mediatrix of all graces, help of Christians, pray for us.
Apparently, some are not at all concerned about ruining sincere efforts at re-uniting the Church, but are pressing forward with more innovations.
What most people don't realize is that had it not been for two 19th century dogmas, the Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility, the Church would probably have been re-united by now!
So, the real, almost unbridgeable rift did not exist until the 19th century. If this century produces Mary the Co-redemptrix dogma, that will put the last nail in the coffin of fulfilling Christ's commandment of a united Church.
Coredemptrix - Latin for the woman with the redeemer.
Roman Catholic tradition BTTT
Mary reigns! Mary rules! Mary conquers!
Mary reigns as Queen of Heaven!
Mary rules through her Immaculate Heart!
Mary conquers as the Immaculate Conception crushing the serpent!
Mary is SALVATRIX!!!
Co-Redemptrix + Mediatrix of All Graces = Salvatrix
Very nice, thanks.
"...but are pressing forward with more innovations."
And an innovation, a particularly strange one at that, it is. One wonders what compels some Latins to press for not simply the toleration of this rather unpatristic notion, but indeed to dogmatize it. The position of the Most Holy Theotokos within The Church and hearts of the faithful is secure and has been for at least 1700 years, likely rather longer. The expression of that veneration and love in the Akathist Hymn seems to me quite sufficient, as it has been since +Romanos the Melodist penned it in the late 5th, early 6th century and in the kontakia, apolytikia, troparia and Divine Liturgies of The Church since the 4th century. The Mariology of The Church is clear. For the life of me I can see little purpose behind this activity unless it is to derail reunion with Orthodoxy.
"...I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul: the Holy Spirit declares that even the angels would be anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching." +Maximos the Confessor
What is the Orthodox view of the role of Mary, and how does it differ from that of the Catholics and the Protestants?
I believe BXVI has already rejected this. The concept is theologically fuzzy, not traditional, and should not go any further.
You mean Coredemptrix or Mediatrix?
Good to here from the Eastern Orthodox. In regard to the unbridgeable gap not existing until the 18th century, why did the gap not get bridged in the 800 years prior to the definition of the Immaculate Conception? I think Our Lady is the common ground between the East and the West. Perhaps honoring her with this dogma is something we can get together on.
Ave Maria!
I am certainly no theologian. In fact, I am a seminary drop-out, but I will, for the sake of discussion, add my two cents. I am very interested in seeing the East and West be reunited. I am a Protestant convert and see unity as very important and especially as a sign for the non believers to see that Christ is sent by the Father, John 17 et al. Perhaps there is already to much to deal with doctrinally but this is the point, the primary issue between the east and the west is jurisdictional, as you point out in your comment.
Sure there is the Photian based spat over the Philioque and, yes, the Immaculate Conception, but most of the anger surrounding these hinges on the fact that the Pope declared these things with little or no agreement or dialog with the East. Sure there are some modern dyed-in-the-wool Photians among the Easter Orthodox theologians (Losski and Clement to name two) but there are also some theological giants, some of your best Fathers of the East such as St. Epipiphius St. Cyril or Alexandria who are in agreement with the Philogue. As such, i think the greatest part of the battle is a question of authority.
And, I can understand the difficulty in regard to authority. There are sins on both sides. However, we need help from Our Lady. We have already waited almost 1000 years to resolve this split, but we need Our Lady's help NOW. By all indications this is Satan's hour for battle (the big battle) and to be able to do battle with him we must be fully sons and daughters of Mary (Gen 3:15, Apoc 12:1ff) and so be brothers and sisters of Christ. And this doctrine of the Coredemption is a great way to honor our Mother. And if the devil is the great divider, turning us into deviled ham, if you will, then perhaps the first fruit of our battle with him will be the healing of the rift between east and west.
The majority of all Christians are in one single denomination. If we can't proclaim Mary as Coredeemer as a fully united Church (which would, indeed, be preferable) should not the majority go ahead and do so as a second best plan? And do so for the sake of the whole Church?
At any rate, I believe once we resolve the juridical issues we can resolve all the doctrinal issues easily enough, be it the Philioque, the Immaculate Conception or even the Coredemption. After all, do you really disagree with the doctrine of the Coredemption? Isn't it just saying that we all must take up our cross and follow Christ? That we are coredeemers with Christ? and Mary is our exemplar?
Your Brother in Christ and Mary,
Fra Roderic, Ave Maria!
Perhaps with Russia increasingly up to old tricks (What? You mean we have to respect the UK's air space?)and the Holy See refusing to revisit the question of the Fatima consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, some of these folks have come to see responding to the call of the Lady of All Nations for the new dogmatic declaration as a last chance before "sudden destruction".
What is needed is not this new dogma added to what has already been created by the ex cathedra declarations of Popes but rather an entirely comprehensive dogmatic constitution of the Church concerning Our Most Holy Lady Mary, the God-bearer. This could be a very effective vehicle especially with Light from the East, so to speak, by including and drawing from the wisdom of the Eastern Catholic churches concerning the Blessed Mother of God as well as the Orthodox East and those voices from the Fathers important to both West and East. I am only lightly sketching what I think might be done in this regard with this post.
Indeed. Well said, Kolo.
If he did that's good. I can honestly say I would expect that from +BXVI, who is a top-notch theologian and patristic at that.
For one, the mutual anathemas of 1054 between the Bishop of Rome and Constantinople (which were "relegated to oblivion" in 1964, after 910 years). Except for Purgatory, the other issues were doctrinal and not dogmatic. And the issue of Purgatory has a to to do with the western phronema (or mindset) than anything esle. once stripped of the legalistic notions, the dogma becomes less unbridgeable.
Once the 19th century brought forth two new dogmas, evrything else paled compared to them. and a crack became a canyon.
PS I hope you don't mind that I pinged the other two Orthodox on this thread.
**Coredemptrix - Latin for the woman with the redeemer.**
You have the correct translation. BTTT!
**Coredemptrix - Latin for the woman with the redeemer.**
It means that Christ is the supreme person with the graces and the salvation.
The way, the truth and the life.
Of course they are part of it! They never stopped being part of it. Orthodox Bishops stopped communing with the those bishops who commune with the Bishop of Rome because of theological disagreements, but he is still a valid Bishop!
Once bishops no longer agree on theology, they cannot commune with each other. Communion is a sing of unity, not a means of attaining one.
Disagreement does not invalidate Holy Orders. If the Holy Mysteries are the kept, as is the case in both Churches, then that bishop can consecrate priests and three bishops can consecrate another bishop.
The reason why Anglican orders are not recognized in the East and the West is because their sacraments (mysteries) are deficient, so while their original bishops, if any, were valid bishops, they could not consecrate valid clergy to replace the existing ones, and that broke the Apostolic Succession of the Anglicans, as well as other Protestants.
No problem with the pinging. The more the merrier. My point with the 800 years is that it really was not so bridgeable. If the issues were truly so bridgeable before the Immaculate Conception Dogma then why was it not resolved in the long 800 years prior to it. It is an awfully long time for such an "bridgeable" gap to remain unfilled. The conclusion then is that it was, in fact, very unbridgeable as the time attests and completely independent of the Immaculate Conception. Again, it is the jurisdictional squabbles that are the driving force here not doctrine. At least that's how I see it.
Ave Maria!
Fra Roderic
Thanks, kosta50, for clearing up that one.
Queen of Heaven rejoice, alleluia: For He whom you merited to bear, alleluia, Has risen as He said, alleluia. Pray for us to God, alleluia.
V. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary, alleluia.
R. Because the Lord is truly risen, alleluia.
O God, who by the Resurrection of Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, granted joy to the whole world: grant we beg Thee, that through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His Mother, we may lay hold of the joys of eternal life. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
SALVE REGINA, Mater misericordiae. Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve. Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te Suspiramus, gementes et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia ergo, Advocata nostra, illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, o pia, o dulcis Virgo Maria.
...anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching." +Maximos the Confessor
Yes, I agree with this! The question, though, is whether this is really a new doctrine? Again, we are simply saying that Mary participates in a unique way in the redemption. This is in a greater degree than any other creature but not equal to God. No blasphemy here. Nothing too radical. Maybe a development of old doctrine, but not "another Gospel."
And an innovation, a particularly strange one at that, it is.
and from and earlier post
Just as a matter of curiosity, what heresy or problem would a "Coredemptrix" dogma address? If none, what is the point of such a dogma?
Again, I am not the theologian but this is such an important question and I am always willing to boldly tread where angels stop in dread. So I will add my two cents : )
Certainly we seem to agree that Marian Doctrines have effectively addressed heresies in the past e.g. Theotokos, the God bearer as others have already commented. This effectively squashed the Nestorian heresy because if she bore a divine person then Jesus is one person and that person is divine, as opposed to the Nestorian concept that said he was two persons, a divine person somehow attached to a human person and only the human person was born by Mary.
Similarly, the Immaculate Conception effectively addressed both the Protestants who despaired of ever being able to receive actual grace and the Humanists who were rather complacent in this regard. The Immaculate Conception Dogma restored hope to the Protestants (and the Protestant leaning Jansensist in the Catholic Church) because it says human nature is not necessarily fallen, at least not in this one case, and so it is at least possible for a pure creature to actually be elevated by grace after the fall and be actually sanctified instead of merely being declared innocent, a la Luther. And in regard to the humanists it said, yes, it is possible to conquer fallen nature, but only one pure creature was conceived immaculately. The rest of us have to work at it!!
And finally, the dogma of the Coredemption addresses the issue of the importance of suffering, its redeeming value. That we are all called to be coredeemers with Christ and with Mary as the pure creature who is our exemplar. And just as she won the role by having her heart pierced (Prophecy of Simeon Luke 2) suffering in union with Christ at the crucifixion so we must participate by offering up our suffering in union with Christ's suffering.
What good does this do for the Church today? Well, what is the chief heresy in the world today? Hedonism with all its vices, contraception, abortion, euthenasia... The only sin in the modern mind is to suffer and suffering is the worst of all scandals. Thus the root of all of our moral problems in the modern world (and, no doubt, most of our physical problems) is this headlong rush away from suffering. If anyone can remedy this massive problem it is Our Lady the Coredeemer.
I must say though that all these reasonings are pretty much my own speculation, simply the fruit of meditation. I simply do not read enough to have any kind of certainty about them. I leave it up to others to correct me. But as you can see I love talking about them. : )
Ave Maria!!
Also, one further point, the Marian dogmas of the west are highly linked to the Christology of John Duns Scotus of which the doctrine of the Absolute Primacy of Christ is central. It says that Christ the God-man would have come whether Adam sinned or not and that the Incarnation is in fact the very reason for creation so that there would be a human nature for God to unite himself to. This is also called the Franciscan thesis and it is the Franciscans who promoted the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, starting with ... Scotus. Thus, the Franciscan exaltation of Mary is merely the recognition that if Christ was the Primary thought of God in regard to creation then Mary would naturally be the second since she is the immediate creaturely instrument of bringing about the Incarnation.
This basis for the Marian dogmas offers some alleviation to the ecumenical concerns. In regard to the Protestant objection that focusing on Mary detracts form Jesus, it must be said that the Franciscan thesis upon which these doctrines are based are the most Christocentric position possible, bar none, including any Protestant Christology!! Any step away from Scotus' doctrine is a step away from the highest possible Christocentrism. Thus Marian-centric dogmas are fully compatible with Christo-centric dogmas, in fact, symbiotic.
In regard to the Eastern Orthodoxy, it is actually the Eastern Fathers that were stronger on this than the western (citation needed). St Augustine explicitly denied that Christ would have come if Adam had not sinned.
If you want to know more about the Absolute Primacy of Christ it is being discussed in great detail in the video series by Fr. Maximilian at Airmaria.com and in his book, available there. And it is very interesting indeed!! Especially the Biblical stuff.
Now I am going to bed!!!!
Oh, ... and the full Dogma as it is being proposed is not just Mary Coredemptrix but Coredemptrix, Mediatrix (of all Graces) and Advocate. But, I will let someone else deal with that.
I just have to get this stuff out to give everyone plenty to yell at me about while I sleep in tomorrow.
Happy Solemnity of the Ascension!! (Holy day of obligation in some(??) diocese...)
BTW when is Ascension in the Eastern Orthodox Church this year?
Now I am really going to sleep, . . . really! Thanks for your patience, Kolokotronis.
Mary Coredemtrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for me!!!
Ave Maria!
"What is the Orthodox view of the role of Mary, and how does it differ from that of the Catholics and the Protestants?"
The way we pray and what we pray demonstrates what we believe. If you read this link to the Akathist Hymn you'll see pretty much what Orthodoxy believes concerning the Most Holy Theotokos.
This little chant from the Divine Liturgy also shows what we believe.
"It is truly right to bless you, Theotokos, ever blessed, most pure, and mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, without corruption you gave birth to God the Word. We magnify you, the true Theotokos."
Our Mariology differs so much from that of the Protestants, well at least most of them, that it would take up far too much bandwidth to discuss it in a single post. Several years of discussing Mariology on FR have convinced me that Mariology just isn't for Protestants. As for the Latins, well our Mariology is virtually identical to theirs, though perhaps without the popular "enthusiasm" (in the religious sense of the word)and apocolyptic aura surrounding what they call warnings but look for all the world to many of us like threats. Dogmatically, Orthodoxy does not accept the Immaculate Conception as usually expressed, but this is because we do not hold by the Western notion of Original Sin. We also have not dogmatized the bodily assumption of Panagia into heaven, though every Orthodox I know of believes it to be true.
FRM, I will try to respond to your various posts today, but it likely will be tomorrow night before I can give them the attention they deserve. I'm in the middle of a major case and the next two days will be taken up with that matter.
Anyone who toys with the idea of Mary being coredemptrix is flirting with heresy.
It's that simple.
If you'd really stop to think about it, you'd realize this idea is quite silly - namely that the hand of God will only be moved to our benefit by our puny actions in declaring new dogmas. I can't see how such a notion squares with the Bible.
"Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? ... For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you." (St. Matthew 6.26, 32-33)
these folks have come to see responding to the call of the Lady of All Nations for the new dogmatic declaration as a last chance before "sudden destruction".
This is especially ridiculous. There is not a shread of evidence from the Bible that God is going to allow our destruction. This is speculative dispensationalist heresy run amok in the Catholic Church.
I have heard that part of the problem is that Latin "co-" does not have the connotations of equality that English "co-" as in co-pilot, co-conspirator. Co-redemptrix simply means--so I have heard--one who participates in redemption, which could be said of all of us. Anyway, that's what I heard...not that I buy it necessarily.
I don't much care for this definition either...but I'll take a wait and see tack.
The jurisdictional issues are also very real but bridgeable, and even the infallibility issue can be, if construed within the framework of the undivided Church of the first millennium.
The issue of Immaculate Concpetion involves the issue of Augustinian teaching on the original sin, which the Eastern Church never accepeted and the undivided Church did not teach as dogma.
As long as the Immaculate Conception was a devotional belief of many in the Church it could be treated as such in any re-unification without requiring theological changes on either side, but as a dogma it is carved in stone.
It would require that the Orthodox scrap the theology of the Church of the 1st millennium, of the seven councils, in order to accept the dogma of IC, and that's not going to happen because we are still the 1st millennium Church.
So, once IC became a dogma, it essentially welded the doors shut that only a miracle can open because right now the choices are toom extreme for either side, no matter how good the will may be to re-establish our communion.
If, by some miracle we were to find common theological ground on IC, we are still facing the issue of created vs. uncreated grace on which our Churches speak very rarely because it is a huge stumbling stone.
You're welcome.
One of the better questions ever asked on this topic.
I could see the point of a Mediatrix/Advocate definition if it was combined with some new movement to spread devotion to Blessed Mary among those with whom that devotion has grown cold. There is plenty of support from theological sources both east and west for these ideas, and turning people towards Blessed Mary as the channel of grace from Jesus to us would be helpful.
I have no idea what the Co-redemptrix definition is supposed to resolve. It looks to me like a sure-fire way to spread confusion, bigotry, and division among Christians, who are already ill-enough catechized as is and certainly already plenty divided over Marianism. If the knowledgeable among us have difficulty grasping the concept, I can't imagine what good popularizing it among the common people would do.
Let people learn the value again of saying a few Hail Mary's morning, noon, and night, and we'll see where we go from there.
Very well put. That goes without saying. We Orthodox pray that she saves us (through her prayers). A mediatrix makes her a saint. A co-redemptrix makes her divine.
I have no idea what the Co-redemptrix definition is supposed to resolve. It looks to me like a sure-fire way to spread confusion, bigotry, and division among Christians, who are already ill-enough catechized as is and certainly already plenty divided over Marianism
This would create great upheaval even among the Catholics, but I can assure you that the work this Pope has so diligently accomplished in bringing us closer would be effectively dissolved.
In reply to LadyDoc:
You erroneously equate the term Co-redemptrix with Co-equal. This is incorrect, because Co-redemptrix means redeeming with Christ, not equal to Him. He is divine, She is a creature, and He chose Her before all time to give Him the flesh with which He redeemed us, and with which He still remains for all eternity, beginning from that point in time, and from which He will examine and judge us. Without this flesh, freely given by Her, there is no redemption. If this is not Co-redemption, please define what you think redemption is all about or how it took place.
Ave Maria!
Mary's role as Coredemptrix is Scriptural and rooted in Tradition—Saints, Popes, theologians and faithful alike have always seen Our Lady's role in our salvation (always secondary and subordinated to Christ) as important.
Check out this link
Also, Monsignor Calkins has some excellent articles on the web on this topic, such as
God included Mary in His plan for our salvation, including her sorrows with and under Christ for the sake of His Church during the actual event of our Redemption on Calvary. A dogma on Mary's spiritual motherhood as Mediatrix of Grace and Coredemptrix would clarify that she is not equal to Christ in her role, yet would uphold her unique participation in the work of our salvation and her unique role in dispensing God's grace to her children.
How so? It means "redeeming with."
Thanks for that, baa. I first read that last night when I was getting tired responding. It gave me a lift!
Ave Maria!
Hope to see you there!!
Ave Maria!
In reply to Kolokotronis:
You ask, What heresy or problem would a Coredemptrix dogma address? If none, what is the point of such a dogma? You pose this question as if it were a secular issue — that we need to weigh up the costs and balances, the values of the arguments each way to reach some positive outcome. If the dogma is true, then such arguments are completely invalid, by definition. If it is not true, then all of this doesnt matter. This is the point: If you have an argument as to why it is untrue, then make it! Dont ask if it is appropriate to establish this dogma now, as if it were a purely political issue.
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