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|Golf was a Sports and recreation good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
|Current status: Former good article nominee
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Golf article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
|Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4
|Golf has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Life. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
|This article is written in American English (labor, traveled, realize, airplane), and some terms used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
- 1 twelfth century references to golf at st andrews
- 2 Par 7?
- 3 Recent Events
- 4 Air Horn Pranks
- 5 GA Review
- 6 Moon
- 7 History
- 8 Etymology
- 9 Vandalism
- 10 Golf - a game, not a sport
- 11 Missing information
- 12 Playing Partners
- 13 Name
- 14 Doesn't make sense
- 15 Junk history
- 16 18 holes
- 17 Dimples
- 18 Shepherds, Stones & Rabbits
- 19 "Sport" Correction
- 20 Title Picture
- 21 Scoring: add "Double Eagle" ?
- 22 Swearing
- 23 Approach?
- 24 Section 7.3 (Other Forms of Play) is redundant with a separate article on Variations of golf
- 25 PGA section
- 26 comments on the "swing mechanics" section
- 27 Paganica - Roman golf or Victorian myth?
- 28 Longest hole
- 29 Field Hockey- A major fallacy with the article.
- 30 Edit request on 25 May 2013
- 31 Par 70 or 71
- 32 How is the "cut" decided?
- 33 Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2014
- 34 Electric golf carts
- 35 Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2015
- 36 Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2015
- 37 Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2015
- 38 External links modified
- 39 New article suggestion : Rangefinding in golf
twelfth century references to golf at st andrews[edit]
The sentence "According to the most widely accepted account, however, the modern game originated in Scotland around the 12th century, with shepherds knocking stones into rabbit holes on the current site of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews.[5]" is slightly misleading. There should either be a reference to a twelfth century source (which almost certainly does not exist) or a following sentence that says "however, the earliest contemporary evidence dates from....(?18th century)". To jump back to the twelfth century is quite a leap of faith... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinigi (talk • contribs) 17:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Par 7?[edit]
PGA claims par 3 through 5. I found record of a par 6 in New York, but no record of a par 7. Does such a beast actually exist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 04:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. The Satsuki golf course in Sano, Japan, has the longest hole in the world -- a 964-yard, par-7.
Username 1 (talk) 16:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Recent Events[edit]
Is there a page in wikipedia for recent events in golf? Ergito (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Username 1 (talk) 18:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Air Horn Pranks[edit]
There should be a section talking about blowing air horns at golf courses. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Air Horn Pranks? Agree - No. Perhaps of more interest might be reference in popular culture movies: Caddyshack & Happy Gilmore, etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by LGJ 68 (talk • contribs) 14:26, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
GA Review[edit]
The old golf GA review can be found at:Talk:Golf/GA1.username 1 (talk) 14:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Alan Shepard played golf on the moon on Apollo 14 with a 6 iron.--LandonJaeger (talk) 16:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- He didn't "play golf." He only smacked the damn ball. And it wasn't a regulation course. --Michael K SmithTalk 18:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be some debate as to which club is actually the oldest golf club in the World and when golf was first played on them. I had always thought that St Andrews golf links is the oldest in the World and that is confirmed in the Golf Monthly book by Beacon Books The Best Links of Britain and Ireland. It states that the oldest club in the World is at St Andrews "The reason is simple enough. St Andrews is the mother of all Golf Courses It is the oldest links in the World - golf was being played there long before Christopher Columbus discovered America" The book also goes on to say that the 3rd oldest club is Dornoch, 5th is Montrose, 6th is Royal Aberdeen and 7th is Crail. Looking on the internet I came across a web reference from Scottish Golf History who list the age of golf sites as follows Perth 1512, Carnoustie 1527, Montrose 1562, Musselburgh 1567, St Andrews 1574, Dornoch 1619 and Leith 1619. The web entry for Museelburgh golf club extends the debate further is it claims to be the oldest golf club in the world with golf being played there 10 years before St Andres. What appears to be missing from the Golf Monthly entry in the Best Links of Britain and Ireland is the entry of which are the 2nd and 4th oldest golf clubs in the World. - WillardWhite
- Records are sketchy at best from the early days of golf, so it depends on how what evidence is considered reliable an acceptable. Musselburgh is generally recognised as the oldest links,[1]. As for golf clubs (institutions), variations in the definition of what constitutes a club allow many clubs lay claim to the title as the worlds oldest. wjematherbigissue 15:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
- Just to clarify the above comment, it is important to distinguish between a golf course (or links) and a golf club. The two were (and still are in many cases in Scotland) distinct. A golf course is an area of land where golf is played. A golf club is an organisation that arranges competitions for its members. For example, the links at St Andrews are owned by a public body, the Links Trust, in sucession to the Town Council that was abolished in the early 70's. The Links are effectively municipal, public golf courses. There are a number of seperate golf clubs, some with their own clubhouses, that play competitions on the links, including but not only the Royal & Ancient. Similar arrangements can be found in other parts of Scotland.WhaleyTim (talk) 08:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
- Further, the existence of golf courses is mentioned in historical records before the existence of golf clubs. By their nature of being private, and perhaps informal and transient organisations there may have been many early clubs for which there is just no historical record. WhaleyTim (talk) 09:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Why the reference to the first 18 hole course in america? if this was the first 18 hole course in the world, it should be described as such and the reference should remain. if it was only the first 18 hole course in america, shouldn't we refer to the first one in the world? (I think most 18 hole courses were from the old course, but i wouldn't want to guarantee someone else built one first —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Just to point out (don't think it's mentioned anywhere else) that golf has the same etymology as club, a word with which it is so closely associated (Old High German kolb). The only other example of this I can think of is beef cow (from Indo-European variants bwous and ghwous). Nuttyskin (talk) 14:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Most of the editing in this article is either vandalism or deletion of vandalism. It seems to me that semi-protection of this page to allow only registered users to edit would serve this article well. My fellow editors, please weigh in with your thoughts, and/or suggestions. Eaglebreath (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I tried to get indefinite semi-protection based on suggestions by good article nominee reviewer User:Mobile Snail but it was not given because "there wasn't enough recent vandalism" to get it. If we could get it next time that would be great.username 1 (talk) 14:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
We just got one month semi-protection.username 1 (talk) 23:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Great news, good job.Eaglebreath (talk) 22:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I just undid some vandalism to the page. It was only a line of code with words on it with some other useless info. Rockingamer2 (talk) 23:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Golf - a game, not a sport[edit]
First things first. I notice that the article classes golf as a sport rather than as a game. It is undoubtedly true that most practitioners of golf feel very strongly that golf should be classed as a sport rather than as a game, particularly because this classification seems to positively affect the way they like to view themselves in relation to practitioners of (other??) sports, but also because they feel its status and intrinsic worth as a pursuit would be somehow diminished if it were classed as a game instead.
However, assuming golf is not classed as a sport simply on the basis that its status or that of its practitioners might for some unwarranted reason be lowered if classed as a game instead, I am not sure on what basis it is classed as a sport in the first place. Most people would consider golf to be closer to, for example, darts, snooker or bowling (which most people would class as games) than to, for example, lacrosse, hockey or table-tennis(which most people would class as sports).
Ideally, of course, golf should be classed correctly, for the sake of accuracy, as a game, but given the fact that practitioners of golf are over-sensitive over its classification, I suggest that, at least, a paragraph be included in the article mentioning the aforementioned controversy relating to its classification.
- First things first. Please supply a good reliable cite that discusses this "controversy". Otherwise we have no evidence it exists. Please also provide some cites that back up your definitions and examples of what defines a "sport" distinct from a "game" and what "most people" think. You'll also need to show an authoritative source that says the accurate and correct classification for golf is a game.
- Once that is all established we can consider how it can be reflected in the article. Thanks. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 17:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Here you go: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/505429.html - link for the controversy and link showing that most people considered golf to be a game, not a sport.
"Using a popular comparison site* of google results, the term "game of golf" had 315,000 results vs. "sport of golf" at 18,900 results. Doing a search on "golf is a game" had more results (20,700) compared to "golf is a sport" at (5,570) results. [ http://googlefight.com/ ] [* not to be considered definitive since many things can contribute to results generated and the results number presented with a search is a "general sum"]
And finally as a more definitive means of determining the most common use, I did a search on google news for relevant, current news, the terms, golf and game returned [ http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=golf+game ] 13,200 results compared to 3,610 for golf [ http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=golf+sport ] and sport. More defining is the fact that when searching for golf and sport, the search terms were not associated in the text, whereas the search for golf and game, returned a large amount of results where golf was actually referred to as a game.
I think definitively this shows that the general public would consider golf a game as well. Generally speaking."
Here's another link stating there is no consensus whether it is a sport or a game and that the answer is likely to depend on whether one is objective or not: http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-amp-gaming/article/2009-01/golf-sport
Finally, here is a link to hundreds of links of debates whether golf is a game or a sport: http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1GPEA_enGB315GB315&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=is+golf+a+game+or+a+sport%3F
As to the definitions, here are some:
Sport: an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition.
Game: a contest with rules to determine a winner.
Now, take biathlon, the winter sport that combines cross-country skiing and rifle shooting. It is not a game; it is a sport. If biathlon involved rifle shooting and a leisurely ski to the next range, it would be a game. Similarly, if golf involved a race against time, it would be a sport.
Here is what, for example, golf would have to be like to be a sport, rather than a game:
...Each competitor is timed as he or she makes their way around the course. Every time they go one over par on a hole, five minutes is added to their time. The competitor who has finished the course fastest wins.
Alternatively: ...Every time a competitor goes one over par on a hole, they have to do a penalty lap dragging their golf-buggy behind them. If they go one under par on a hole, they do not get penalised if they go one over par on another hole. The competitor who finishes the course first wins.
In both of these examples, physical exertion would play a critical role, unlike it does at present in golf. Therefore, golf is currently not a sport. It is a game.
Now, could you please show some objectivity and act in good faith? Thank you.
- You could do the exactly same google analysis with football (any variety) and produce entirely similar bogus results. Golf is internationally recognised as a sport. We do not need to discuss this any further. wjematherbigissue 19:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
No, you couldn't do the same analysis with football. For football to be a game, rather than a sport, it would have to exclusively involve, for example, taking kicks at an unguarded goal from a stationary position, with no time pressure. Sounds a bit like golf, doesn't it?
Here is the results page for the question: "is football a sport or a game?"
Compare it to the results page for the question: "is golf a sport or a game?"
There is no controversy whatsoever whether football is a sport or a game. There is however a huge controversy when it comes to golf. Just because you don't like the look of the big white elephant in the room doesn't mean he's not there. Please read the Wiki editorial standards - you have to be objective and neutral, not biased and subjective!
You are right, we do not need to discuss this further. A section should be included in the main article noting the controversy as to its status. Ideally, of course, for the sake of accuracy, the status of golf should be changed in the article to that of a game.
- There is no need for a section on a non-controversy which is perennially brought up by people who hate golf. I recommend you further investigate what constitutes a sport, and check out the archives of this talk page, before commenting further. wjematherbigissue 20:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
- All the above googling is original research. Please read this link and it will explain. Original research is not permissible on Wikipedia. Also a link to a forum post is not a reliable source and may not be used to cite anything on Wikipedia. I refer you to my above answer; please produce cites from reliable sources that discuss the "controversy" regarding over whether golf is a game or a sport. That does not mean googling result counts and constructing evidence or a case of a controversy yourself. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
- Anyone interested in re-hashing this tired, old topic should check out the archives, and everyone using this discussion page should identify themselves by signing their posts.Eaglebreath (talk) 22:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
That's a serious overswing on the first picture! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- This article talks about it further Is golf a sport? And the answer is...it depends Bebarlow (talk) 23:28, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Missing information[edit]
I hear "slice" referred to by golfers. What is it? It's nowhere mentioned in the article. Shouldn't it be? 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:42, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Slicing on the golf course is frustrating, embarrassing, and typically uncontrollable. You stand there helplessly as you watch your ball make its way toward to rough and you know that you will be lucky to find it again.
Slicing the golf ball is the most common golfing ailment there is, and plenty of people who have wandered the golf course before you feel your pain. Slicing occurs when the body is improperly aligned with itself and the golf ball. Because both factors have to be fixed in order to improve the slice, it can be a very frustrating time in a golfer's life. GolfBallPutter (talk) 22:57, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
- Except none of you is differentiating between hooks and slices. My back yard overlooks the 10th fairway and I get a fair number of balls hooked into my flower beds -- but no slices. For that to happen, the golfers would have to be playing contraflow. --Michael K SmithTalk 19:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
- Or left handed. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:30, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
- See Glossary of golf for definition of 'Slice' and many other golfing terms.WhaleyTim (talk) 09:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Playing Partners[edit]
12 players are going on tour with 5 rounds of golf, and we want to ensure everyone has a chance of playing against each other. Do you know of a web site that can sort out the numbers and makle sure no one plays with each other more than twice?
I would like to see a section on the origin of the name "Golf", and the controversy about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthritix (talk • contribs) 23:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
- See Etymology section in the History article. I don't see much controversy though. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't make sense[edit]
"Another early game that resembled modern golf was known as cambuca in England and chambot in France.[6] This game was, in turn, exported to the Low Countries, Germany, and England (where it was called pall-mall, pronounced "pell mell")." --> "Another early game that resembled modern golf was known as cambuca in England. This game was exported to England (where it was called pall-mall)." Eh? I'm not sure what this should say, could someone who does address it please? Stutley (talk) 08:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Junk history[edit]
The Roman, Persian and Chinese stuff is clearly irrelevant and should be removed. "Vaguely similar" is not the same as "ancestral". If there is a historical link, it should be backed up by evidence. Grendlegrutch (talk) 19:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
- Their claims as possible forerunners of the sport are cited properly as far as I can see. wjematherbigissue 19:40, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
- The Chinese claim certainly isn't junk - I wish I could find a copy of the picture. There is no reason to delete any of these references. Unless you can irrefutably prove that these claims are junk then they should stay.Philg88 (talk) 06:31, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
18 holes[edit]
why is golf played 9 or 18 holes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomasseaton (talk • contribs) 17:49, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
The dimples INCREASE the turbulence around the ball NOT decrease it. An increase in the turbulence in the boundary layer around the ball will cause the flow to better overcome adverse pressure gradients and be less subjected to boundary layer separation. Because the separation point is pushed further back there will be less pressure differential drag resulting in less negative acceleration and longer flight trajectories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carl489585 (talk • contribs) 22:11, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Shepherds, Stones & Rabbits[edit]
The theory that "the modern game originated in Scotland around the 12th century, with shepherds knocking stones into rabbit holes" as noted in the article is widespread and has a certain appeal. Are there any good historical sources for this or is it just a popular myth? One issue I have with this is the question of the Rabbits. To quote http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/advisorynotes/31/31.htm
- "Rabbits were introduced to Britain by the Normans, around the 12th or 13th century. At that stage they were not technically wild but were initially confined to managed warrens, primarily on islands and in coastal areas. The trade in rabbit meat was well established by the 14th century and reached its peak around 1800 (Sheail 1971). However, the economic value of the species had declined by the mid-19th century, and measures were begun to control rabbits to reduce agricultural damage. Rabbits were widespread in Britain by the 16th century although their spread in Scotland was more gradual. While apparently abundant around Edinburgh at this time, they were otherwise primarily restricted to a few islands and coastal habitats, where they often constituted the main source of income. They were rarely recorded north of the Tay and Clyde valleys. The spread of rabbits throughout Scotland is largely attributed to introductions throughout the Highlands in the 18th and 19th centuries, aided by improved agricultural practices."
Now perhaps the St Andrews links (for example) was one of the early managed coastal warrens. However to quote http://www.scottishgolfhistory.net/st_andrews_oldest_golf_course.htm
- "In 1552, Archbishop John Hamilton of St Andrews was given a charter to establish a rabbit warren on the links".
This, of course may have been the formalisation of a pre-existing situation and does not preclude a prior rabbit population, but it does make me wonder if there is any real evidence for 12th century rabbit holes.
Secondly, of course, it seems widely accepted that the earliest historical reference to golf is James II ban of 1457. Again, this does not mean that the playful shepherds were not golfing in the C12, but does seem to imply that there is no historical evidence for their frolics (added by WhaleyTim (talk) 07:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)).
Any thoughts (or historical evidence) ?WhaleyTim (talk) 09:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
- Well, it is rather speculative. But it is cited and as good a suggested explanation of how the game came about as any. But the concern is more about establishing where it is "generally accepted" the modern game originated, rather than exact dates and means, which is likely to be never known. How about we drop the shepherds, and go with something along the lines of;
- "The modern game originated in Scotland, where first written record of golf is James II's banning of the game in 1457, as an unwelcome distraction to learning archery."
- That would require a cite for both the originated and the banning, but they can't be difficult to get. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
"Sport" Correction[edit]
It says This article is about the sport. For other uses, see Golf (disambiguation).
it means that: it's about the meaning of sport when a child is a sport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Candy853 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Title Picture[edit]
The title picture should be replaced because of the massive technical issues with the golfers swing. Wikipedia should have pictures with proper technique, or at the very least better technique. I understand the use of a professional golfer may not be appropriate, although could be used. If not the use of another picture could be used.
http://picasaweb.google.com/110558744294344659947/Golf#5538080455906246066 —Preceding unsigned comment added by CullH (talk • contribs) 00:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not a guide to golfing technique, so it really doesn't matter how poor the swing is, as long as it's clearly recognisable as golf. But if you have a better photo please feel free to add it. Personally I think the current photo is an good illustration of the game and quite picturesque into the bargain. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 23:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
LOUSY PICTURE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 16:40, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Scoring: add "Double Eagle" ?[edit]
I would like to suggest adding a "*" next to the Albatross in the scoring section. under the scoring section a sentence something like "* also known as a Double Eagle". Im fairly certain the PGA uses the term "double eagle" exclusively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizziiusa (talk • contribs) 15:53, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- Since an "eagle" is 2-under-par for a hole, the term "double eagle" technically would mean -4 rather than -3. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:12, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
3 under par is called a double eagle (in the United States at least), regardless of your math. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:48, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps refer to informal use of Mulligan's with hyperlink to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulligan_%28games%29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by LGJ 68 (talk • contribs) 14:20, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Is swearing really necessary? - Yes, swearing in golf is necessary because it actually believe it or not, reduces the amount of stress that is build up after a bad shot. If you get mental lessons, they may say otherwise but, when you hold your anger in, you actually get even more frustrated. It is a good thing to have a good mental game where all you do is think about the present. Once you hit your shot either good or bad and you get mad, you move on and forget about it. Think of each shot as a new game. You do not want to keep that stress throughout the round or you will "blowup" otherwise.
- Indeed. As noted by P.G. Wodehouse in "Chester Forgets Himself" http://www.k5nd.net/chester-forgets-himself/ WhaleyTim (talk) 01:45, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
Don't the term "approach" refer to the golf club? I believe there isn't anything mentioned about it in the materials section. Also, I know that there is pitching club and sand club.18.104.22.168 (talk) 18:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Section 7.3 (Other Forms of Play) is redundant with a separate article on Variations of golf[edit]
Section 7.3 (Other Forms of Play) is redundant with a separate article on Variations of golf. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_of_golf#Scoring_Variations
Should the two be merged? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Figz (talk • contribs) 19:02, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
PGA section[edit]
Should we add a section about the PGA? They are an important part of golf and its rules. Jjjliu (talk) 20:31, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
comments on the "swing mechanics" section[edit]
These three sentences can be removed entirely.
"Understanding the golf stroke is easier if one first understands the golfer's role. The golfer does not "hit the ball". The golfer's role is to swing the club, which then strikes the ball."
The final two sentences are not facts about the golf swing. They are swing thoughts that are prevalent in golf instruction.
A golfer most certainly hits the ball, just as a baseball player hits the ball. It's practically the definition of the word "hit". In training, a student is sometimes told not to "hit the ball" to keep the student from using too much hand action in the swing but it is not accurate to say that he doesn't "hit the ball" and I don't even know what the quotation marks are for.
TheCityGame (talk) 14:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed. I've removed them. Apart from anything else, they read like a guide to improving your golf, which is not what Wikipedia is for. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:42, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Paganica - Roman golf or Victorian myth?[edit]
Along with many popular histories of the game, this article mentions a an ancient Roman game called Paganica as a possible precursor to golf. However the non-golf sources I have read only seem to mention Paganica as a ball stuffed with feathers. I get the distinct impression that sometime in the mid 19th century someone argued "Featherie = Golf ball stuffed with feathers","Paginica = Roman ball stuffed with feathers" therefore "Paginica = Roman Golf", which was taken as a fact by subsequent writers. Does anyone know of any reputable source of Roman history that describes Paganica as a golf-like game? WhaleyTim (talk) 14:40, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Longest hole[edit]
At its peak, Koolan Island had a population of 950 people and had a school, police station, recreation facilities and shops. It had the world's then-longest golf course hole — an 860 yards par 7 number 6 which doubled as the island's air strip. Tabletop (talk) 07:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
The Satsuki golf course in Sano, Japan, has the longest hole in the world: a 964-yard, par-7. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LGJ 68 (talk • contribs) 14:29, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Field Hockey- A major fallacy with the article.[edit]
Regarding the origins of the game of golf; Golf is related to a variant of field hockey which is an ancient Greek game. The similarities to field hockey could substantiate the connection and history of Golf to Roman "Paganica".
At some point in history, the players of the game stopped moving the ball around the field as the objective, but rather stood still and only hit the ball. The target or goal became to sink the ball rather than shoot past a boundary line or net and scoring against an opponent was removed from the game, replaced by individual comparative scoring.
The proof exists but the historical record is fragmented. We know similar games existed in the distant past. This subject would be the most important topic to include in the article, because for anyone interested in history this aspect of other games that are related to golf is very interesting. It has great value to approach the issue of how Golf developed into a very unique game. To discover the details of the past would be fascinating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 08:03, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Edit request on 25 May 2013[edit]
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According to a 3 year study [2009-2012] by GolfTourney.com[1] they found that in United States each golf course hosts an average of 8 amateur golf tournaments per season. Some golf courses host up to 150 events per season while some do not host any at all. The most golf tournaments are hosted in the states, Florida, California, Texas, and Georgia.
[1][1] Emcrawfo (talk) 04:57, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- ^ GolfTourney.com/about-us
- I think that might be overly detailed for this article. Perhaps there might be somewhere to mention it in the Golf course article? Begoon talk 05:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Par 70 or 71[edit]
The third paragraph under "Par" includes the sentence, "Many major championships are contested on courses playing to a par of 70, 71, or 72 (typically reducing the number of par-4 holes for par-3s and trading distance for difficulty)." But almost every par-70 or par-71 major I've seen reduces the number of par-5s in favor of long par-4s. More than four par-3s on any professional course is extremely rare; the variable is the number of par-5s. I'd edit this myself, but from reading this talk page, I gather that this entire entry is rather contentious. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 04:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
- I've added a "[citation needed]" to that sentence. While that does not resolve the issue you brought up neither the sentence nor the explanation in parentheses is supported by a citation. It would be great if a cite was found for what you reported on. It's making a claim about "many major championships." I'll assume that's the Men's major golf championships? FWIW - looking at the past five years:
- I did not count the numbers of par 3/4/5/more as we are possibly drifting into WP:OR or WP:SYNTH unless someone wants to focus on many decades of Men's major golf championships, the Women's major golf championships and to carefully construct something that shows us how the overall par was arrived at. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:23, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
How is the "cut" decided?[edit]
Golf tournament redirects to this article. I came because I wanted to learn how the cut is done. I know the general pattern for a tournament is they play on Thursday and Friday. The best "X" scores get to continue on into the weekend. How is "X" decided? I had been on the PGA Championship and then 2013 PGA Championship articles but they don't mention the word "cut."
Moving back a year, the 2012 PGA Championship article has sub-sections under "Past champions in the field" sections named "Made the cut" and "Missed the cut" with no explanation on what the "cut" is. 2012 PGA Championship#Second round says "72 players made a cut which fell at 150 (+6)" but again no explanation on what that means.
Also, is "72 players made a cut" correct English for golfers? I'd always heard "made the cut" or "missed the cut" and so updated the 2012 PGA Championship article. --Marc Kupper|talk 19:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2014[edit]
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External Link: www.ultimategolfzone.com Devon4786 (talk) 15:43, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Not done - We aim not to be a "Linkfarm" - Arjayay (talk) 15:50, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Electric golf carts[edit]
Most rounds played with carts?
The article states that "At most courses, electric golf carts are used to travel between shots". It might be the case in North America and Japan (and other Asian countries" but on the British isles and in Scandinavia walking is the norm (electric carts are available but seldom used). I'm not familiar with the situation on the European continent.
So, is the statement that "At most courses, electric golf carts are used to travel between shots" really true from an international point of view? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:09, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2015[edit]
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One of the biggest misconceptions is that the name for GOLF came from the acronym for Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden, which is definitely not ture Jcobb1974 (talk) 00:27, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 01:37, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2015[edit]
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i belive the golf page is incorrect because it does not state that kim jung un,s father had done a 38 shot game Growadoado (talk) 01:42, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. A claim like that would require multiple independent sources. —C.Fred (talk) 01:45, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2015[edit]
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"If you have ever seen a dragon in a pinch, you will realize that this was only poetical exaggeration applied to any hobbit, even to Old Took's great-granduncle Bullroarer, who was so huge (for a hobbit) that he could ride a horse. He charged the ranks of the goblins of Mount Gram in the Battle of the Green Fields, and knocked their king Golfibul's head clean off with a wooden club. It sailed a hundred yards through the air and went down a rabbit-hole, and in this way the battle was won and the game of Golf was invented at the same moment." J.R.R. Tolkien Texasranger22 (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
- Not done; no explicit edit specified (if you just wanted this quote dropped in the article, that wouldn't work, it would need framing and explaining) and this joke is already mentioned in History of golf. --McGeddon (talk) 18:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
External links modified[edit]
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New article suggestion : Rangefinding in golf[edit]
Currently the "Rangefinder" article has an interesting but unreferenced section "Golf". Anybody willing to take a swing at Rangefinding in golf? Staszek Lem (talk) 03:15, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
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Bolton News
Local news for Bolton, MA continually updated from thousands of sources on the web.
Treasurer seeks overhaul of - unwieldy' Mass. alcohol laws
Friday Jul 8 | Boston.com | Comment?
Proposed alcohol rules would help Eataly, winery
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Shares of Penn West Petroleum Upgraded from Sell to Buy at Veritas, from Underperform to Neutral at Macquarie
Come on, Cramer downgraded stock to sell
That goofball already published two articles. Once to downgrade and when that did not work, he tried again a few hours later. That day PWE rallied which is called the Cramer effect.
Cramer and his hedge find buddies were probably loading up the truck on this stock. His show (and CNBC at large) is just a way for him to manipulate the market for his own financial gain.
Sentiment: Buy
More upgrades coming today. Market likes the news.
I am also getting a lot of upgrade notices on Penn West from investment newsletters. The ones who look at the larger picture....not just some old income sttement produced at the time of 2 dollar nat gas and 80 dollar oil.
"not just some old income statement" LOL yeah, like ....ummm... a week old? Dolt.
Sentiment: Strong Sell


text:
Battle for Brooklyn (2011)
Battle for Brooklyn Videos
Battle for Brooklyn Photos
Movie Info
Critic Reviews for Battle for Brooklyn
All Critics (19) | Top Critics (11) | Fresh (15) | Rotten (4)
No excerpt available.
Although not exactly even-handed, the movie proves a deft look at a reluctant crusader and how financial sway and political override can so effectively trump the power of the average citizen.
Hawley and Galinsky, a longtime wife-and-husband documentary team, bring real suspense to the story, culled from many hundreds of hours of footage.
A battle ordinarily requires two sides, yet this earnest, ungracefully reconstructed saga posits that opposition to the building of the New Jersey Nets' future home took place in a virtual vacuum, and that the fix was in from the start.
Spins a compelling tale about the value of individual and collective resistance, even as it makes clear where power in our society really resides.
Audience Reviews for Battle for Brooklyn
The first two things you're immediately struck by in Battle for Brooklyn are the senses of paranoia and grandeur. This literally is a battle, and the film prepares you in appropriately epic fashion. But seeing man after man take the podium in his crisp suit during the film's opening minutes gives you the sense that this battle was over before it even got started. Yet, men like Daniel Goldstein aren't afraid, even if they are being watched by hidden cameras everywhere they go. The battle is over property in Brooklyn, where some rich developers want to build massive skyscrapers and an arena (to host the New Jersey Nets basketball team). In order to build, however, they need to buy a lot of land, much of which belongs to homeowners and small businesses. Eminent domain, of course, is what you might know such a process as, but typically, that law is only invoked for public needs, i.e. a highway. Goldstein and a whole host of other residents are infuriated that they're homes are being seized in the name of sports. But with their opponents prepared to throw around hundreds of millions of dollars like it was nothing, it's unclear if their defiance can actually do anything. Despite the somewhat grandiose promise of jobs and prosperity for all, it's debatable whether or not this project is actually in the public's best interests. And it's certainly interesting that both sides have a diverse group of people advocating for it. There are rich and poor for the project, as well as rich and poor against it. What's unacceptable to both the participants and this viewer is the resolute way the residents and business owners were completely left out of the planning process. When the project's detractors come up with an alternative that won't require eminent domain, they aren't even afforded the chance to present it. This gives one the sense that the entire thing is some vendetta, years in the making, over the Brooklyn Dodgers leaving town. Now is that a good enough reason to evict people from their homes? The film does something else quite interesting in chronicling how his fight against the project impacts Daniel's personal life. He starts the film as an engaged graphic designer, and becomes a figurehead of the resistance who marries a different woman. His first fiance leaves him because he turns down a very big offer from the developers, Forest City Ratner, but he ultimately connects with a fellow activist who understands his passion. In Daniel, a face is given to this situation, which for his cause's sake, and the sake of this film, is a much more successful way to tug at one's heartstrings. Some would argue that activist documentaries don't have a place in today's world, what with the 24-hour news cycle souring any notion of a smart but slanted discourse. Battle for Brooklyn, however, is a fine example of how to sell someone on a point of view without hammering them over the head with it. The film's points are cogent, and they're presented in a very compelling manner. Yes, it takes sides, but after seeing the film, you'll understand why. The issues shown involve a great deal of passion, and though it might be too late to stop the Atlantic Yards project, one can only hope people take notice and don't let something like this happen again. http://www.johnlikesmovies.com/battle-for-brooklyn/
Although we follow the point of view of those who oppose a development which arguably would provide new opportunities for Brooklyn residents, the viewer remains on the fence as the debate unfolds as to what is best for a community. It also shines a light on the mega project which is such a popular way to spur economic development but which can often have results that are significantly less than anticipated.
Super Reviewer
A well-told story of a really potent political issue - the invocation of eminent domain where public subsidies are used to enrich developers (also including a stadium, real Dave Zirin territory here). The documentary stretches over many years, optimistic promises, the economic crash and the subsequent stand-still in construction, the non-existence of promised jobs and fare hikes due to the developer paying only 20% he promised the MAT. It's an I-told-you-so sort of loss, but one that's well documented and because it followed the entire process, showed that yes the pastor (who lives in New Jersey) and the self-styled grassroots representative of Brooklynites were both paid off by the developer, that the jobs never do appear and that Jay-Z may be on the developer's side but Rosie Perez, Steve Buscemi and John Turtorro are on the side of those fighting it, which is a good and kickass place to be.
Discussion Forum
Discuss Battle for Brooklyn on our Movie forum!


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Definition of Baird, John Logie in English:
Baird, John Logie
(1888–1946), Scottish pioneer of television. He made the first transatlantic transmission and demonstration of colour television in 1928 using a mechanical system which was soon superseded by an electronic system.
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= trending


text:
Game Informer grows explosively in 2011, now 4th largest magazine
Game Informer continues to grow while other magazines shrink.
The market for print magazines in shriveling, according to a report released Tuesday by the Audit Bureau of Circulations. During the fourth quarter last year, single-copy sales of consumer magazines declined by nearly 10 percent compared with the year before.
But one Minneapolis-based magazine continues to buck the trend and grow. Compared to 2010, Game Informer's paid circulation increased an astonishing 48 percent. To put that in context, of the 10 largest magazines in the world, Game Informer was the only one to grow by more than even one percent last year.
Believe it or not, Game Informer is now the fourth-largest magazine in the world in terms of circulation, trailing only AARP Magazine (which ranks as largest), AARP Bulletin, and Better Homes in Garden. In other words, Game Informer is now the largest magazine in the world that anyone under the age of 40 actually reads.
So while the proliferation of online media continues to reduce the importance of printed words and the number of people who regularly read them, Game Informer looks like it's only growing. Perhaps the ever-increasing popularity of video games surmounts all the countervailing trends.
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Tina Fey On The 'Success' Of Sarah Palin In One Super-Shareable Graphic
Click to enlarge.
UPDATE: Over 7,366 of you have shared this graphic on Facebook so far! Can we get to 10,000 shares?
Found on Imgur. Originally submitted by Brandon W.
Click to enlarge.
UPDATE: Over 7,366 of you have shared this graphic on Facebook so far! Can we get to 10,000 shares?
Found on Imgur. Originally submitted by Brandon W.
Posted 3 days ago
Posted 2 weeks ago
Posted 6 days ago
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Our work remains undone until our lives are free of violence. Add your name to the Movement for Black Lives pledge.
by Alicia Garza
Do your constitutional duty. Confirm a highly qualified Supreme Court nominee.
by Anna Galland, MoveOn.org Civic Action
Hold the police officer accountable for the murder of Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, MN.
by Shatae Kimmons-White
The race for the Democratic Party nomination should be decided by who gets the most votes, and not who has the most support from party insiders. That's why we're calling on all the Democratic …
by Ilya Sheyman
A joint website of MoveOn.org Civic Action and MoveOn.org Political Action.
MoveOn.org Civic Action is a 501(c)(4) organization which primarily focuses on nonpartisan education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org Political Action is a federal political committee which primarily helps members elect candidates who reflect our values through a variety of activities aimed at influencing the outcome of the next election. MoveOn.org Political Action and MoveOn.org Civic Action are separate organizations.
Paid for in part by MoveOn.org Political Action. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.


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Welcome to the Lakeside Lutheran Church and Preschool website. We hope this site will help you learn more about us and our witness for Christ. We strive to recognize and nurture the Christ in ourselves and each person that we encounter along the way. Our church is a thriving community of believers and lovers of the Word of God. Lakeside Lutheran Church and Preschool have a long tradition of outreach and service to its members and the community. We hope you will join us for services on Sunday to experience for yourself fellowship in Christ.
Pastor Nominating Forms
We are moving forward to add a second pastor to the Lakeside staff. The Florida Georgia District President has invited the confregation to submit names of potential candidates. The forms are located in the Narthex and should be returned to the Church Office no later than August 9th. Remember, this person should have a desire to work with children, youth and families!
Summer Time Picnic!
LLC Youth and the Social Concerns Committee invite you to a Sunday afternoon picnic immediately following the 10:30 worship service in Meyer Hall on Sunday, August 21. We will be serving All American hotdogs, German brats, potato salad, baked beans and all the fixings. Sign up and purchase your tickets beginning Sunday, July 31. Tickets are $5. For additional information, contact Claudia Albert, (941) 468-7721
Summer Worship Schedule
We have begun our Summer Worship Schedule. Contemporary Service will be held in the sanctuary at 9:15 and Traditional Service will be at 10:30. Holy Communion will be on the 1st and 3rd Sunday of the month for both services.
Lakeside Partners with Amazon!
Who doesn't like to shop! Now when you make a purchase online from AmazonSmile, Lakeside will receive a donation from Amazon! .5% of each purchase will be donated back to Lakeside. Click the link below to start shopping!!
Hear All About It!
Our Loop System for the hearing impaired is installed! If you have a hearing aid device that is T-coil compatible, please sit in the left section as you enter the Sanctuary and turn your hearing piece to the t-position.
Check out the Preschool Website
Look at our Website today and see all that our preschool has been offering the families of Venice for the last 30 years! Follow the link below:
Lakeside Lutheran Preschool
Get Our Latest News
Read our latest newsletter!


text: We're sorry, Handmade Felt Terrier Brooch is no longer available Why not try one of these instead? Don't Be A Dick Enamel Pin Badge by Veronica Dearly £7.95$14.23€9.59$10.67 Don't Be A Dick Heart Enamel Pin Badge by Veronica Dearly £5$8.95€6.03$6.71 Vintage Style Illustrated Harris Tweed Pin by Emma Dolan £4.50$8.05€5.42$6.03 Glitter Unicorn Brooch by Duck & Duffel £6$10.74€7.23$8.05 Handmade Felt Terrier Brooch by Felt so good £4.95$8.86€5.97$6.64 This item is no longer available £6.95$12.44€8.38$9.32 delivery to United States Receive this item 5-10 working days from dispatch International delivery available we're sorry we're sorry, This item is no longer available buy a gift voucher related categories baby & child > children's accessories > children's jewellery > pins & brooches jewellery > women's jewellery > pins & brooches by Felt so good Location: Bristol, GB read seller's profile see seller's complete range more items from this seller Handmade Felt Dog Paw Brooch Black/Beige/Pink by Felt so good £6.45$11.54€7.78$8.65 Handmade Felt Duck Decoration by Felt so good £9.95$17.81€12$13.35 Handmade Felt Animal Purse by Felt so good £10.45$18.70€12.60$14.02 Handmade Felt Mini Funk Christmas Wreath by Felt so good £9.45$16.91€11.39$12.68 Handmade Felt Traditional Santa by Felt so good £6.25$11.18€7.53$8.38 Handmade Felt Giraffe by Felt so good £9.95$17.81€12$13.35 view all you may also like PRODUCT DETAILS DELIVERY RETURNS ask seller a question save for later A charming companion for any ensemble, this loyal little dog will delight people of all ages. The products of felt so good are all designed in the UK and produced in Nepal. We follow a strong passion to support and promote an ethical practice to ensure that the products of Felt so good are produced by skilled people whom are given a fair wage and good working conditions. made from: Felt is fantastically simple to care for. Wiping with a wet cloth will remove most stains. If the item needs to be thoroughly cleaned, hand wash it in luke warm water with a plain soap (no perfumes or dyes), then wring it out and leave it to dry. When felt is worn often, it tends to grow small pills of loose wool fibres. This happens with all wool products. Just pull them off the item, or on smaller thinner items just cut them off. Felt actually becomes stronger with wear. Steam or Iron the felt to remove wrinkles, you could also do this if it is looking a bit sorry for itself. dimensions: Handmade Felt. 6cm x 6cm product code: 322581 This product is dispatched to you by Felt so good. MAINLAND UK order now and receive this item by price Standard Delivery Saturday 30 July £1.75$3.13€2.11$2.34 Tracked Next Day Delivery Monday 1 August £6.70$11.99€8.08$8.99 Saturday Delivery Saturday 30 July £14.70$26.31€17.73$19.73 NON-MAINLAND UK estimated delivery price Highlands & Islands of Scotland 2-5 working daysfrom dispatch £1.75$3.13€2.11$2.34 Northern Ireland 2-5 working daysfrom dispatch £1.75$3.13€2.11$2.34 Other UK Islands 2-5 working daysfrom dispatch £1.75$3.13€2.11$2.34 INTERNATIONAL DELIVERY estimated delivery price Western Europe 2-5 working daysfrom dispatch £5.00$8.95€6.03$6.71 Rest of Europe 5-10 working daysfrom dispatch £5.00$8.95€6.03$6.71 USA & Canada 5-10 working daysfrom dispatch £6.95$12.44€8.38$9.32 Asia & Australasia 5-10 working daysfrom dispatch £7.25$12.97€8.74$9.73 Rest of the world 5-14 working daysfrom dispatch £7.25$12.97€8.74$9.73 You have 28 days, from receipt of cancellable goods, to notify the seller if you wish to cancel your order or exchange an item. Please note: goods that are personalised, bespoke or made-to-order to your specific requirements, perishable products and personal items sold with a hygiene seal (cosmetics, underwear) in instances where the seal is broken are non-refundable, unless faulty. Read more about our returns policy.Should you choose to return or exchange your order you will need to deliver the item(s) to the UK, where this seller is based. Felt so good's return policy Please see notonthehighstreet.com's returns policy.


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Warped Metal's Profile
Many years ago, I discovered that there was little in the world of conventional (read: commercial) jewellery that appealed to me, other than the rare creation I would find of something beyond a statement of tradition or fashion...jewelry to me....
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Top Definition
A foil that you cannot use anymore because it is already dirty.
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This is a news video of Pope Francis' first day as Pope. It's great stuff. Have a watch.
Catholic in the Public Square
Cardinal Dolan's been talking about Pope Francis and how it felt inside the Conclave. I love what he's had to say. If you have the time on this busy Thursday, take a moment and watch these. Cardinal Dolan, who obviously can barely contain his happiness, will cheer your soul.
Cardinal Dolan Talks to ABC News about Electing Pope Francis.
Cardinal Dolan: Don't Look to Francis to Change Church Doctrine.
Cardinal Dolan Talks to Joe Torres about the new pope.
I watched it this evening on a tiny insert on my laptop. I got misty-eyed then. Now, I can't stop smiling.
What a beautiful, humble man to ask for our prayers. God bless him.
Here, if you haven't seen it, or just want to see it again, is the first part of the Holy Father's first message as pope.
Our new Holy Father chose to live in a simple apartment rather than the archbishop's palace when he was Cardinal Bergoglio. He also cooked his own meals and took a bus to work instead of using his chauffeured limousine.
This son of a railway worker has four brothers and sisters. He wanted to be a chemist and has a degree in chemistry. But God intervened in this plan and he entered the Society of Jesus instead. He is an intellectual who studied theology in Germany and who defended the poor in Argentina's economic crises of a few years ago.
During the military junta in Argentina, Father Bergoglio worked in the position he had then as head of a seminary to oppose the so-called "liberation theology" and insist on what an article for the National Catholic Reporter called a more traditional reading of Ignatian spirituality, mandating that Jesuits continue to staff parishes and act as chaplains rather than moving into 'base communities' and political activism.
He is unwavering in his support of traditional Catholic teaching on abortion, same-sex marriage and contraception. At the same time, he has dealt compassionately with victims of HIV-AIDS, going so far as to visit a hospice and kiss and wash the feet of AIDS patients. In September 2012, he accused priests who refuse to baptize children born out of wedlock of a form of "rigorous and hypocritical neo-clericalism."
Here are a few comments Pope Francis I has made:
For sources, check here, here, here and here.
Pundits who were pushing for a pope who would abandon 2,000 years of Catholic teaching and go chasing after the moral fashions of the world will probably be disappointed in Pope Francis I.
The new Holy Father has a decades-long record of supporting the sanctity of human life, traditional marriage and the Gospel support of the poor. For instance, he called abortion a "death penalty" for unborn children in a 2007 speech.
The LifeNews.com article describing this says in part:
The archbishop of Buenos Aires, Jorge Mario Bergoglio … once called abortion a "death sentence" for unborn children, during a 2007 speech and likening opposition to abortion to opposition to the death penalty.
In an October 2, 2007 speech Bergoglio said that "we aren't in agreement with the death penalty," but "in Argentina we have the death penalty. A child conceived by the rape of a mentally ill or retarded woman can be condemned to death." …
… The remarks came during the presentation of a document called the Aparecida Document, a joint statement of the bishops of Latin America.
The new pontiff also denounced euthanasia and assisted suicide, calling it a "culture of discarding" the elderly. (Read the rest here.)
These are gleanings from various web sites.
Pope Francis I, who was Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, was born December 17, 1936. He is the 267 pope of the Roman Catholic Church in a line that goes all the way back to the Apostle Peter. He is the first pope from either Argentina or the Americas.
Reports vary as to whether he chose his name in honor of the Society of Jesus Francis Xavier or Francis of Assisi. He was promoted Cardinal in 2001, and before his election, served the archdiocese of Buenos Aires. He is one of five children. He was ordained to the priesthood in 1959. He was a member of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits.)
Based on what I've read, he has a history of supporting Catholic moral teachings in matters concerning the sanctity of human life and the sacrament of marriage.
This article from CNA/EWTN News has more details:
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — A respected Italian journal said Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, a 76-year-old Jesuit, was the cardinal with the second-highest number of votes on each of the four ballots in the 2005 conclave.
The journal, Limes, said its report was based on information that came from the diary of an anonymous cardinal who, while acknowledging he was violating his oath of secrecy, felt the results of the conclave votes should be part of the historic record.
The journal said it confirmed the diary's count with other cardinals.
Cardinal Bergoglio, who has also been mentioned as a possible contender in the current conclave, has had a growing reputation as a very spiritual man with a talent for pastoral leadership serving in a region with the largest number of the world's Catholics.
Since 1998, he has been archbishop of Buenos Aires, where his style is low-key and close to the people.
He rides the bus, visits the poor, lives in a simple apartment and cooks his own meals. To many in Buenos Aires, he is known simply as "Father Jorge."
He also has created new parishes, restructured the administrative offices, led pro-life initiatives and started new pastoral programs, such as a commission for divorcees. He co-presided over the 2001 Synod of Bishops and was elected to the synod council, so he is well-known to the world's bishops.
The cardinal has also written books on spirituality and meditation and has been outspoken against abortion and same-sex marriages.
In 2010, when Argentina became the first Latin American country to legalize same-sex marriage, Cardinal Bergoglio encouraged clergy across the country to tell Catholics to protest against the legislation because, if enacted, it could "seriously injure the family," he said.
He also said adoption by same-sex couples would result in "depriving (children) of the human growth that God wanted them given by a father and a mother."
In 2006, he criticized an Argentine proposal to legalize abortion under certain circumstances as part of a wide-ranging legal reform. He accused the government of lacking respect for the values held by the majority of Argentines and of trying to convince the Catholic Church "to waver in our defense of the dignity of the person."
His role often forces him to speak publicly about the economic, social and political problems facing his country. His homilies and speeches are filled with references to the fact that all people are brothers and sisters and that the church and the country need to do what they can to make sure that everyone feels welcome, respected and cared for.
While not overtly political, Cardinal Bergoglio has not tried to hide the political and social impact of the Gospel message, particularly in a country still recovering from a serious economic crisis. (Read the rest here.)
Our new pope is Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio from Argentina. He has chosen the name Francis I.
After brief remarks, he led the vast audience at the Vatican in the Our Father and Hail Mary in Italian.
Even in this brief audience it was fun to watch this Latin pope gesticulate with his hands as he spoke.
My prayers and hopes are with him.
I am so excited by the election of the new pope! I wish I was able to be there.
Here are few details from RT NEWS for those who are following the story:
To the cheering of crowds white smoke has appeared above the Vatican chimney, signaling a new Pope has been chosen by cardinals.
As the white smoke rose above the Sistine Chapel, the bells of St. Peter Basilica tolled out 'Habemus papem", meaning the Catholic Church now has a new Pope.
The smoke was released up the chimney after five rounds of voting meaning that a two-thirds majority has been reached and that one candidate received at least 77 votes.
Cardinal electors held a full day of deliberations on Wednesday and in the morning released black smoke up the chimney, signalling that no decsion had been made.
Crowds outside St. Peter's Basilica in Rome cheered and waved flags from many different nations. Some waved crucifixes while others held banners reading 'long live the Pope".
The new Pope is expected to be named shortly from the central balcony of the Basilica. Read the rest here.)
This is from CBC NEWS WORLD
A new pope has been chosen to lead the Roman Catholic Church.
The emergence of white smoke from a chimney on the roof of the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican indicated to the world that cardinals have elected a new leader for 1.2 billion Catholics.
The name and nationality of the new pope has not been made public yet.
The newly elected pope will be fitted for his white cassock, and the other cardinals in the conclave will then each individually swear obedience to him.
Before he appears on a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square, the new pope will stop to pray in the Pauline Chapel.
Ahead of the appearance on the balcony, French Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, the protodeacon, will announce "Habemus Papam," Latin for "We have a pope!"
The new pope was selected after XXX ballots failed to produce a winner during a conclave that began Tuesday.
Colorado's legislature has passed a civil unions bills. All that's necessary for the bill to become is for the governor — who as already said he would do so — to sign it.
The bill passed without religious liberty protections that would protect religious organizations from such as adoption agencies from being forced to violate their beliefs.
Archbishop Samuel Aquila of Denver issued the following statement concerning passage of this bill.
STATEMENT: Archbishop of Denver responds to civil unions bill
Regrettably, the Colorado Legislature has approved a civil unions bill today which harms families, civil liberties, and the natural rights of all Colorado's children.
Senate Bill 11 is the beginning of an effort to redefine the family in Colorado and to undermine the right of all children to have a mother and a father. Civil unions are not about equality, tolerance or fairness. They create an alternate reality in which all institutions can be self-defined. Make no mistake: Civil unions are the first step to redefining marriage and to radically redefining the concept of civil rights. Civil rights are about protecting individuals and institutions from tyranny or oppression, not providing legal endorsement to all conceivable social arrangements and constructs.
The Church recognizes and affirms the dignity of every human person—but she does not see all relationships as equal. Marriage is a unique social relationship between a man and a woman which exists for the good of children and as the foundation of all human communities. Marriage has been uniquely protected in law for millennia in order to preserve and promote the foundations of all social stability.
Senate Bill 11 is particularly troubling because the religious liberty of all Coloradans has been discarded under the guise of equality. The ability for religious-based institutions to provide foster care and adoption services for Colorado's children is now dangerously imperiled. Faced with the reasonable request for religious liberty and conscience accommodations, state Sen. Pat Steadman offered the following: "So, what to say to those who claim that religion requires them to discriminate? I'll tell you what I'd say. Get thee to a nunnery and live there then. Go live a monastic life away from modern society, away from the people you can't see as equal to yourself." These comments are woefully antagonistic to Catholics, to Christians and to all people of faith and good will.
Marriage is a stabilizing institution at the foundation of civil society. Religious liberty is a civil rights issue. Today both have been grievously harmed. Today our state and federal Constitutions have been dealt a troubling blow.
Most Reverend Samuel J. Aquila, S.T.L.
Archbishop of Denver
As of 0530 this morning, (edt) the Papal Conclave had voted three times and three times failed to come to a 2/3 majority on any one man.
That means we don't have a pope yet.
Three times, black smoke came out of the chimney at the Vatican.
But the cardinals appear to be taking votes in what for them is rapid succession, so things are moving along quickly.
A CNA/EWTN article describing this says in part:
Vatican City, Mar 13, 2013 / 05:33 am (CNA/EWTN News).- At 11:38 a.m. local time on March 13, black smoke rose from the Sistine Chapel's chimney, indicating that the cardinals gathered at the Vatican have not yet reached an agreement on the next Pope.
Voting began on the evening of March 12, yielding an initial inconclusive vote marked by black smoke at 7:43 p.m. local time.
Tow more rounds of voting will be held in the afternoon, with a smoke signal expected between 7:00p.m. and 8:00p.m.
As a general rule four rounds of voting and two smoke signals will take place each day, until a Pope is chosen. The exception to that rule occurs when a Pope is selected on either the morning of the afternoon's first ballot. In that case, the smoke will be seen around10:30 a.m. or 5:30 p.m.(Read more here.)
Black smoke rose from the newly-installed chimney at the Vatican today signaling that a vote had occurred but the 2/3 majority had not been reached for any candidate.
We do not have a pope yet. But the College of Cardinals has voted.
Hopefully, it won't be long.
A New York Times story describing this says in part:
VATICAN CITY — The cardinals of the Catholic Church held their first ballot on Tuesday to elect a pope, with black smoke signaling no winner on the first day of their conclave inside the Sistine Chapel.
Night had fallen by the time the smoke rose, but people who had flocked to St. Peter's Square on this cold, rainy evening could watch the spotlighted chimney on giant screens set up in St. Peter's Square. Some shrieked in excitement as the thick smoke began billowing out.
The outcome was expected, since all 115 of the cardinals are theoretically candidates, and the winner must receive two-thirds, or 77, of the votes. In past modern conclaves, the first ballot essentially served as a primary, when a number of cardinals emerged as leading vote-getters. Subsequent rounds made clear where the votes were flowing. The smoke will be white when a pope is elected.
The cardinals, who are staying in seclusion in the 's Santa Marta residence, will return to the Sistine Chapel on Wednesday morning. The schedule calls for two rounds of voting in the morning and two in the evening, as needed. (Read at the rest here.)http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/world/europe/vatican-pope-selection-conclave.html?_r=0
"Habemus Papam!"
It won't be long before we hear those words. When we do, and our new pope is presented to us, we can know that he has taken time to be with the Lord before walking out on that balcony.
One change from previous elections is that our new pope will be given time for prayer and adoration before the Blessed Sacrament before he is presented to the public.
I think this is a wonderful change in procedure. Time spent with the Blessed Sacrament fills a person with the peace that passes all understanding.
The man who will become what some members of the press have called the "CEO for Christ" is going to need this peace, and those of us who are looking to him for leadership, guidance and inspiration need for him to have it. Prayer is the wellspring of the Christian life. Even though I sometimes get too busy to do it well, I always find what I need when I pray. At times, this is an understanding that I have been wrong and need to change. At other times, it's peace and comfort. But it is always the Holy Spirit, guiding and sustaining me.
The Blessed Sacrament is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord. He reaches through it and into us. I can think of no other place where our new pope needs to go after his election than before Christ in the eucharist.
A CNA/EWTN News article about this change in procedure for the new pope says in part:
Vatican City, Mar 11, 2013 / 10:04 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In a change to past papal elections, the new Pope will have the chance to adore Jesus in the Eucharist before he makes his appearance on the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica.
Vatican press office director Father Federico Lombardi told journalists March 11 that, "when the Pope goes to the loggia, he passes the Pauline Chapel and will stop there for a brief moment of personal prayer and silence in front of the Blessed Sacrament." (Read the rest here.)
I found this fascinating video of the announcement that Karol Wojtyla was the new pope: Pope John Paul II.
It is beautiful to watch and hear the astonishment of the reporters. They didn't know then what we know now: That John Paul II was going to be one of the greatest popes, a man for the times.
I pray that God will send us another great man, one for these times, to be our Holy Father.
To join in the conversation about The World is Not Ours to Save: Finding the Freedom to Do Good, or to find a link to buy a copy, go here.
We are the clay. God is the potter.
We are the created. God is the creator.
Our dominion over this Earth is ours by designation, not because we made it or because we can keep it. We have dominion over the Earth because God assigned it to us as a trust. It is the same with our lives. We did not earn them. We do not merit through our own actions either life or love. We are here because God breathed the breathe of life into us and we became living souls. When that days comes that our souls are required of us, these bodies we inhabit will die and return to the dust from which they came.
We exist as a thought in the mind of the God Who made us.
That is our place in the order of creation. We are free because God made us free. We have life because God gave us life. We are able to choose and decide and act out of our will because God gave us minds and hearts and the freedom to use them as we wish.
But this world, this sinful fallen world with all its prevarications and cruelties can not be saved by our actions. There is nothing we can do to redeem humanity from its own willful sinfulness. Nothing we can offer that will turn back the tide of original sin that blights each of us and the whole of creation.
What this means is that we can not play God. When we try, we fail. When we try continuously, we become weary with a Sisyphean weariness that leaves us defeated and bitter if we do not face the reality of who we are in the order of creation.
Christians, in particular, are easy prey to the peculiar hubris of trying to save the world from itself. In my work as an elected official, I encounter people on a daily basis who profess Christ but behave as if He doesn't exist. They battle for what they think is His cause with an angry fanaticism. But they do not have the faith to trust Him with the outcome. The less they trust, the angrier they become.
They work and worry and experience each defeat as a personal failure, until they are ready to fall over from emotional, physical and moral exhaustion. They take on the whole problem themselves. They forget that their might is nothing against the evil of a fallen world, and, more importantly, they forget that it is not, never was, never will be, up to them.
All any of us has to do is our part. In the final analysis, all any of us has to do is what God tells us to do. In my experience, God doesn't share His plans in detail. He just tells you what you are to do. Then, He tells someone else what they are to do. But He doesn't tell either of you about the other. You part is to do what God wants and let Him unfold the plan.
Which He will.
In His time and in His way, He will bring all the disparate parts of His plan together. You are a thread in the fabric He is weaving, nothing more. You may have to wait a long time to see it. You may not see it in this life. But the whole pattern will come together and when it does, it will be glorious beyond anything you could have thought of. It is not your job to see the whole of it. Your job is to trust and obey.
You are free to enjoy the wonderful life He has given you, safe in the knowledge that He makes all things work to the good and whether or not you can see it doesn't change that.
As Tyler Wigg-Stevenson put it in the title of his book, The World is Not Ours to Save.
The World is Not Ours to Save: Finding the Freedom to Do Good is basically a meditation on Micah 4. Micah 4 is a prophecy of Christ and the conversion of the Gentiles, as well as the coming Kingdom of God. It contains the beautiful verses They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
Tyler Wigg-Stevenson has obviously thought a great deal about these prophecies. He shares his interpretation of their meaning and applies them to the work of every person who feels called to engage in the social justice battlefield on the side of the Gospels.
The World is Not Ours to Save is a wise book with excellent advice for those who are worn slick from trying to do God's job of saving the world rather than focusing on simply doing their part. I recommend it.
I am going to be busier than anyone who has not been an elected official can imagine this next week.
I'm talking about long days that run into night of hearing bills counter-balanced with arguments, fights, anger, jostling, jangling over-stimulation that does not stop.
What that means to the readers of this blog is that I won't be able to respond to you as quickly as some of you would like. I may very well get snappy in some of my infrequent replies, and more than likely I will make some really dunderheaded mistake.
So I apologize in advance.
And ask your forebearance.
In the meantime, let's pray for the next pope. We need a great man to lead us through these contentious times.
The Vatican has released a detailed schedule for the Papal Conclave which begins tomorrow. The earliest we could have a new pope would be Tuesday evening, around 7 pm.
According to everything I've read, this is unlikely. If the press has the story straight, there are no frontrunners. Based on what little I know about these things, it sounds like it will take more than one ballot to elect the next pope.
A CNA/EWTN article describing the Conclave schedule is below.
VATICAN CITY, March 9 (CNA/EWTN News) .- Vatican press office director, Fr. Federico Lombardi, has revealed details of the daily schedule of the Conclave set to begin March 12.The Mass for Election of a New Pontiff will take place on Tuesday at 10:00 a.m. Beginning at 3:45 p.m., Cardinals will be transferred from the St. Martha House, the building where the Cardinals will reside during the Conclave, to the Vatican.>From there, Cardinals will process from the Pauline Chapel to the Sistine Chapel where they will pray Vespers and officially enter the Conclave at 5:00 p.m.
The first possible smoke sighting will be on Tuesday evening at around 7:00 p.m.
If the smoke is black, the Cardinals will reconvene the next morning beginning with Mass at 8:15 a.m. in the Pauline Chapel and mid-morning prayer. Voting will begin again at approximately 9:30 a.m.
There will be four votes per day, with two in the morning and two in the afternoon. (Read the rest here.)
The Vatican is locking down for the big vote. That raises the question: How do you keep a secret when more than a hundred people are in on it?
The answer is that you drive them to and from their meetings on a bus, lock them in, install jamming devices guaranteed to turn iPhones into clocks and iPads into pads. Then, to top it off, promise excommunication to anyone — from those at the top to those who clean the floors — who talks out of school.
As we say in Oklahoma, that oughta do it.
I doubt if we'll hear so much as a squeak from inside the Sistine Chapel while the votes take place. We will learn the outcome, but the vote, the deliberations and discussions, are for the ears of those making them.
This is an excellent idea. I am a strong believer in openness in governance. But I also know that there are times when people have to be able to consult with one another in private if anything positive is going to happen. Cardinals are people. This secrecy protects them — and us — from the pressures of electing a pope based on passing considerations of personal popularity.
We need the pope that the Holy Spirit wants. I am praying every day in my own shorthand version of prayer that God will give us a good pope. The challenges this man will face are our challenges as well. They are the problems and perils of Christianity at this time in history. The pope will have the only unified voice in Christianity today.
He speaks for 1.2 billion Catholics, and for another 800 million Christians of other communions. He also speaks for the poor, the weak, the disenfranchised of every faith and no faith all around the globe.
It is important that the cardinals vote, as we do, by secret ballot. It is also important that they cast these votes and discuss the issues surrounding them without cameras, bugs or gossip to inhibit them.
The following article from NBC News describes some of the measures being taken at the Vatican to ensure that this happens.
By Alastair Jamieson, Staff writer, NBC NewsROME — Jamming devices to halt communication were installed at the Vatican on Monday, as part of a security lockdown ahead of the papal conclave.
>The behind-the-scenes ballot process is supposed to remain a secret, but modern technology left Roman Catholic Church officials taking no chances.
< Staff working alongside the cardinals voting inside the Sistine Chapel must swear an oath of secrecy.
"I expect they'll be on a total lockdown," NBC News' Vatican analyst George Weigel said. "Security is tight. It's got to be."
Jamming devices will be used at the Sistine Chapel inside the Vatican and the nearby guest residences at Santa Marta where cardinals will sleep during the conclave, officials told reporters on Friday
The move will ensure cardinals cannot communicate with the outside world or use social media. It will also prevent hidden microphones from picking up the discussions.
Any cardinals or Vatican workers –- such as those serving food in Santa Marta – breaching the code face excommunication from the church. (Read more here.)
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QuickTime for the Web: Hands-On Guide for Webmasters, Site Designers (Book & CD-ROM) Paperback – Jun 5 2000
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If you do anything related to creating QuickTime movies for the Web, you'll want this book. QuickTime for the Web: A Hands-On Guide for Webmasters, Site Designers, and HTML Authors is one of the most informative and easy-to-read guides of its kind, and perhaps one of the best in Apple's QuickTime Developer Series.
Loaded with real-world examples, code snippets, and digestible text, this book opens up your eyes to the real power of QuickTime, which goes much farther than merely allowing you to create and play short videos. QuickTime is a deep, all-encompassing technology that can be used for displaying all kinds of things, including programmable functions and site navigation.
Nineteen chapters cover everything from how to download and install QuickTime to special features of the QuickTime Plug-in (you can limit the download rate of a movie so that users with a fast connection don't hog all the bandwidth) to streaming vs. nonstreaming applications. Other chapters discuss using QuickTime layers (text, Flash, and so on) and programming sprites for creating interactive QuickTime movies. There's a great example of a calculator created entirely in QuickTime by using sprites.
As an added bonus, the accompanying CD-ROM contains QuickTime 4 Pro for both Macintosh and Windows (which alone is worth the cost of the book); an assortment of tools for creating, editing, and converting audio and video; and most of the examples in the book. Leave it to Apple to come out with a technical manual that reads easily and is packed with more fun things to do than a boardwalk arcade. --Mike Caputo
About the Author
The author is a senior technical writer and Multimedia Web Monkey for Apple's QuickTime team. He has developed Web sites with QuickTime content for Apple Computer and other clients. His writing on QuickTime, CD-ROM, and HTML has been published in WIRED magazine, and he has produced a commercial CD-ROM, "Life Near 310 Kelvin," that incorporates HTML, digital audio, and QuickTime movies. What we're saying here is that the author is a big geek-he's smart, he's funny, and he knows what he's talking about.
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The book is chock full of information, but it's anything but a dry presentation. The author is witty, precise, and instructive. He approaches the subject in a way that presumes very little prior acquaintance with either QuickTime or HTML. Little by little, he teaches us how to do some amazing things.
If you are a web page designer, a webmaster, or an HTML author, this book belongs close at hand in your office!
The book is full of useful info and the author is fun and helpful. He assumes we have little prior knowledge with either QuickTime or HTML and by the end of the book, he teaches us how to produce some amazing content.
I purchased this book for its material regarding steaming content over the Internet, and learned a great deal in the process. The chapter on QuickTime VR answered my "how do they do that?" questions, and has led me to explore the use of this technique for my upcoming projects.
The QuickTime VR chapter is a good example of the depth of knowledge used to develop this text, as it gives in-depth information on photography techniques that only a mid- to experienced photographer would know.
My only criticism of the book is that it only begins to explore about half of the knowledge needed to set up your own streaming web server, but I can hardly fault the authors for that -- it says right on the cover "A Hands-On Guide for Webmasters, Site Designers, and HTML Authors." It says nothing about being aimed at System or Network Administrators. If your main interest in this book is the setup of streaming servers, you might want to consider another book (or better yet, purchase this book along with another to round out your knowledge).
With the ... QuickTime Pro included, I can say without reservation that this is one of the best computer book values I have ever purchased. The book paid for the rest of the cost by showing me how to trick Microsoft Internet Explorer / Windows Media Player in such a way that it will not try to open your .mov files (great in a Windows-dominated environment)!
Highly recommended, even if you have only a passing interest in QuickTime.
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After the Bell
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SOURCE Lincoln Electric Holdings, Inc.
Trade-Ideas LLC identified Lincoln Electric Holdings (LECO) as a "barbarian at the gate" (strong stocks crossing above resistance with today's range greater than 200%) candidate
Trade-Ideas LLC identified Lincoln Electric Holdings (LECO) as a strong and under the radar candidate
RSO PGRE LECO are going ex-dividend tomorrow, Tuesday, June 28, 2016
Lincoln Electric (LECO) stock is advancing on Tuesday afternoon after the company's 2016 first quarter earnings results beat expectations.
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