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User talk:Middayexpress/Archive 18
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Hi Middayexpress,
I just read your comment Rendille have mixed with and assimilated many Nilotes. What do you mean by this? Yes they have adapted certain cultural traits from Nilotes but they are still genetically overwhelmingly native Cushitic and not Nilo Saharan.
Here are their autosomal dna results from the Tishkoff et al. 2009 study. The first result includes non-African references the second is exclusively African thus the results may differ due to references. However, both results show them being overwhelmingly Cushitic.
I see no reason why they shouldn't be listed, please don't show pseudo scientific outdated articles claiming they are mixed. They are arguably much closer to Somalis geographically, genetically as well as ethno-linguistically than distant groups such as the Beja, Amhara and Tigray who are listed. Listing groups like Semitic Ethiopians completely contradicts your own argument about adapted cultures and languages.
This is the name of the study: The Genetic Structure and History of Africans and African Americans by Sarah Tishkoff
Here is a link, download the supplementary data to check the results: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1172257
(Page 90 of supplementary data) Proportion of AACs from the Global Unsupervised Structure Run at K=14
- 0.2% Fulani
- 3.3% Nilo Saharan
- 0.2% Oceania
- 2.8% Chadic
- 0.2% Khoesan
- 4.2% Niger-Kordofanian
- 0.5% East Asian
- 0.2% Hadza
- 0.6% Sandawe
- 3.6% Indian
- 74.3% Cushitic
- 0.3% Pygmy
- 8.9% European
- 0.6% Native American
(Page 95) Proportion of AACs from the Africa Structure Run at K=14
- 0.1% Mbugu
- 4.3% Chadic
- 75.8% Cushitic
- 0.5% Eastern Bantu
- 7.2% Nilo Saharan
- 3.3% Saharan
- 0.5% Fulani
- 1.0% Non-Bantu NK
- 0.4% Khoesan/Mbuti
- 4.6% Niger Kordofanian
- 0.4% Sandawe
- 1.3% Central Sudanic
- 0.2% Hadza
- 0.4% Pygmy
Let me know what you think. Mazi99 (talk) 03:18, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I also want to add that their genetic results didn't differ much from Ethiopian Oromos in that study. Especially the amounts of the Cushitic cluster which we are the most interested in.
I hope you reconsider your previous assumption about the Rendille.
Mazi99 (talk) 03:41, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the info. I have managed to track down a full copy of that Tishkoff study, and it turns out that she did not study Somalis or any other Cushitic or Semitic speaking group from the Horn except for the Beja and the Beta Israel. Her "Cushitic cluster" does not seem to be really representative; while it is generally made up of Cushitic-speaking groups from south eastern Africa that migrated to the area a while back from the Horn (she says that "these populations originated from southern Ethiopia and migrated into Kenya and Tanzania within the past ~4,000 years"), many of said groups have since mixed with neighboring Nilotic and/or Bantu groups. She also indicates that there is a large "Cushitic" component in the very Nilotic groups that the Rendille and other Cushitic-speaking groups from the area are known to have mixed with: "Many Nilo-Saharan speaking populations in East Africa, such as the Maasai, show multiple cluster assignments from the Nilo-Saharan (red) and Cushitic (dark purple) AACs, in accord with linguistic evidence of repeated Nilotic assimilation of Cushites over the past 3,000 years (31) and with the high frequency of a shared East African-specific mutation associated with lactose tolerance". If you look at row 2 on Figure 3 on page 10 of the study itself, it's also easy to see the very significant Nilotic/Bantu influence on the Rendille since the Rendille show an even lower 'blue' component than the Nilotic Samburu despite the fact that the Samburu got that blue component from assimilating Cushitic groups in the first place. If you look again at the last row, which appears to show the greatest degree of detail, almost half of the Rendille's genetic makeup appears to be from Bantu groups since it is the characteristic 'orange' color that seems to typify the Niger-Congo speaking populations in the study. Only about 35% of the remaining column seems to link with the Cushitic cluster, with the remainder belonging to the Nilotic red cluster.
- When I wrote that the modern (not ancient) Rendille are less closely related to Somalis than are many other Cushitic-Semitic speaking groups from the Horn, I was referring to the Rendille's long-standing practice of intermarrying with Samburu Nilotes, in particular:
- "Inter-tribal marriage occurs more frequently between the Rendille and the Samburu than between the Rendille and other tribes (Borana, Gabra, Somali and Sakuye). As a reflection of this complexity, the lineage groups include those which are said to derive from the Somali, Gabra, Borana, Sakuye and Samburu. With such diverse origins, the Rendille lineage groups are included in 15 clans, but among these only nine are included in the moiety system. These nine clans may be called the "Rendille proper" [Spencer 1973]. Of those six clans excluded from the moiety system, one is a mixed group of Rendille and Borana, and the remaining five are mixed Rendille-Samburu groups. Those clans which have come strongly under the socio-cultural influence of the Samburu are called "Ariaal Rendille"." [1]
- "The extensive immigration of Rendille men to the cattle economy is matched by an extensive marriage of Rendille girls to the Samburu, so that the Rendille are in a sense losing women as well. The extent to which this is not counteracted by an equivalent degree of marriage of Samburu girls to Rendille may be judged from Table 6." [2]
- "The Rendille and Samburu have had close ties for many generations. They intermarry and exchange cultural ideas even though they live in separate areas, speak different languages, and have very different life-styles. Marriage between the Rendille and Samburu is subject to differences in customs. Young Rendille men are allowed to marry only at certain times, but the Samburu are not limited. Thus Samburu men often choose Rendille wives when the Rendille men are not allowed to marry. Both the Samburu and Rendille practice polygamy, which means that a man can marry more than one wife." [3]
- This intermixture has also been noted in mtDNA studies, with the Rendille showing far fewer of the markers that are typical of Somalis and other Cushitic/Semitic Horn populations and a high frequency of markers that are typical of Nilotic and/or Bantu groups. By the same token, one can also see how the Rendille and other Cushitic-speaking groups in the south eastern region have influenced the neighboring Nilotic and Bantu groups' own gene pool by the presence of typical Cushitic markers in some of the latter populations (c.f. [4]).
- Also note that, while Horn groups such as the Amhara and Tigray may today speak Semitic languages, many are actually of Agaw descent. This is why a) there is a Cushitic substratum in, among others, the Amharic, Harari, Tigrinya and Gurage languages [5], [6] (i.e. the sign of Cushitic speakers that switched over to speaking a Semitic language but retained certain features of their old language), b) the E1b1b Y-DNA haplogroup is still the most common Y DNA amongst many of these peoples [7], and c) the Ethio-Semitic groups' mtDNA profiles so closely resemble those of the area's Cushitic groups ([8]). In short, irrespective of what Afro-Asiatic languages these Cushitic and Semitic speaking groups from the Horn may speak, they generally tend to biologically cluster closely together ([9]). Middayexpress (talk) 00:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Sarah Tishkoff did indeed not have any Somali samples, the main reason is that the samples were actually taken during fieldwork in Africa and we all know Somalia is not the safest place to go with expensive lap equipment due to the civil unrest. However, she sampled Borana Oromos who are highly similar to Somalis and clustered with Somalis in previous studies such as Sanchez's yDNA study from 2005 on Somali Danish immigrants.
The notion that the Cushitic cluster does not seem to be really representative is false, if genetics is able to cluster people of Northeast African descent than it truly is a Cushitic cluster. Many either speak Cushitic languages or have known ancient admixture from Cushitic groups. It doesn't randomly show up in ethnicities we know have nothing to do with Northeast Africa.
The Cushitic cluster is not found in significant numbers outside of East Africa (some Saharan people and Arabians posses it in minimal ammounts per the Tishkoff study), suggesting it being native to Northeast Africa. About the Maasai you are spot on, they are a mixture of multiple clusters due to their geographical proximity to Bantus, Nilotes and Cushites.
I could not find anything about Rendille being less 'blue' than Samburu. Figure 3 is about the ratio of genetic diversity not clustering or did you mean figure 3 on the regular page (STRUCTURE analysis of the global data) and not the supplementary data? If so what you said is not true:
The 'blue' what you are seeing is West Eurasian ancestry, the exact percentages being:
Rendille: 8.9% Samburu: 2.7%
Again per (Page 90 of supplementary data) Proportion of AACs from the Global Unsupervised Structure Run at K=14
It is clear that you confused some other group for the Rendille sample (likely the Mbugwe from Northern Tanzania), as Rendille hardly have any significant Bantu or Nilo Saharan admixture. The figures I gave you in my previous message are the results of the Rendille people.
You should pay some attention to figure S19 (on page 45 (supplementary data). Rendille remain clustered along with the Oromos and Beta Israel while distant groups such as the Southern Cushitic speaking Iraqw and all the Nilotic Kenyans cluster away at K set to 10 ancestral groups. This suggest Rendille, Oromos and Beta Israel share recent common ancestry. It is only more than likely that Somalis would have had similar results. Rendille and and Nilo Saharan Kenyans might have intermarried but the Tishkoff study shows this only had a minimal influence on Rendille overall genetic makeup. Modern Rendille (this study is only a mere year old) are still overwhelmingly Cushitic genetically.
About the mtDNA study, thank you for sharing. I examined the results of the Rendille and didn't find any non-typical results. Most of their mtDNA is similar to other Horn Africans (mostly being haplogroup L0, M1 and L3 which arose somewhere around what we now call Ethiopia).
By the same token, one can also see how the Rendille and other Cushitic-speaking groups in the south eastern region have influenced the neighboring Nilotic and Bantu groups' own gene pool by the presence of typical Cushitic markers in some of the latter populations (c.f.
I find this quote to be inaccurate, Rendille are a modern ethnicity of recent Southern Somali origins as their language clearly suggests (classified as a Lowland East Cushitic Omo Tana language just like Somali is). Most of the Cushitic influences in Nilo Saharan and Bantu populations of Kenya is ancient and predates the modern ethnic groups of today. I am well aware of the Cushitic substratum in Habesha languages and that they are genetically quite similar to Cushitic people. However, they have obviously been influenced by Semitic cultures in the same way Rendille have been influenced by Nilotic cultures. Listing Habesha groups but not allowing Rendille people on the Somali ethnicity page is a contradiction in itself
Mazi99 (talk) 09:43, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
To sum it all up:
1) We know from genetic studies that Rendille have minimal non-Northeast African affinities. 2) The Rendille language is the closest language to Somali.
So who is pure anyway? There is no such thing as purity, this is an outdated pseudo scientific term.
Mazi99 (talk) 09:52, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
- Borana Oromos (at least the ones in Kenya, which are the Borana that Tishkoff actually studied) are not highly similar to Somalis. They are pretty much in the same boat as the Rendille, El Molo, Iraqw, etc., as they too have mixed with neighboring Bantu/Nilotic peoples. And this as well is quite well-documented. From the Kenya Institute of Education [10]:
- "The Cushites interacted with Kenyan communities and this led to intermarriage between them (.e.g. Pokomo and Borana)."
- One also cannot use the Tishkoff study to speculate on whether or not the Rendille are more related to Somalis than are other Cushitic or Semitic-speaking groups from the Horn since of course Somalis weren't even studied in it nor were most other Cushitic and Semitic-speaking Horn populations -- groups that are comparatively less mixed than the Bantu/Nilo-Saharan-influenced Iraqw, Rendille, Konso, El Molo, etc. that Tishkoff did actually study. As I've already pointed out, the only such Horn groups that were studied were the Beja and the Beta Israel, and the Rendille clustered with neither. Even the Cape Coloured group of South Africa and the Dogon of West Africa were closer (see Figure 1 on page 8 of the study proper for evidence of this), and this specifically has to do with the considerable level of the 'blue' component all of these groups possess. Refer to Figure 5A of Tishkoff's study [11] (not the supplementary material), where the authors actually compare the southern Cushitic-speaking groups with the northern ones in the Horn and indicate a clear genetic differentiation between north and northeastern Africa on the one hand, and the areas inhabited by the Rendille, El Molo, and other similar Cushitic-speaking groups from more southerly areas of eastern Africa on the other. Here's how they explain it:
- "We incorporated geographic data into a Bayesian clustering analysis, assuming no admixture (TESS software) (24) and distinguished six clusters within continental Africa (Fig. 5A). The most geographically widespread cluster (orange) extends from far Western Africa (the Mandinka) through central Africa to the Bantu speakers of South Africa (the Venda and Xhosa) and corresponds to the distribution of the Niger-Kordofanian language family; possibly reflecting the spread of Bantu-speaking populations from near the Nigerian/Cameroon highlands across eastern and southern Africa within the past 5,000-3,000 years (25, 26). Another inferred cluster includes the Pygmy and SAK populations (green), with a noncontiguous geographic distribution in central and southeastern Africa, consistent with the STRUCTURE analyses (Fig. 3). Another geographically contiguous cluster extends across Northern Africa (blue) into Mali (the Dogon), Ethiopia and northern Kenya. With the exception of the Dogon, these populations speak an Afroasiatic language. Chadic and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations from Nigeria, Cameroon and central Chad, as well as several Nilo-Saharan speaking populations from southern Sudan comprise another cluster (red). Nilo-Saharan and Cushitic speakers from the Sudan, Kenya and Tanzania, as well as some of the Bantu speakers from Kenya, Tanzania and Rwanda (Hutu/Tutsi) constitute another cluster (purple), reflecting linguistic evidence for gene flow amongst these populations over the past ~5,000 years (27, 28). Finally, the Hadza are the sole constituents of a sixth cluster (yellow) consistent with their distinctive genetic structure identified with PCA and STRUCTURE."
- As the quotes I produced yesterday clearly show, the modern Rendille are in no way representative of 'typical' Cushites. They are a mixed Cushitic/Nilotic population, with the attendant mtDNA sequences to show for it. As can clearly be seen in Figure 2 of the Castri study [12], their most common mtDNA lineage is L0 (~23%), which is an archaic clade that is not at all common among Somalis. It is, however, extremely common amongst Nilotes. In fact, the highest frequency of L0 chromosomes in the study were observed in the Nilo-Saharan speaking Luo group. The maternal lineages the Rendille do actually share with Somalis (such as M1) are in the minority, not the majority. And this is specifically a consequence of their practice of marrying Nilotic women, as I've pointed out. Likewise, the notable frequencies of typical Cushitic maternal markers in the Samburu Nilotes in particular are due to their intermarriages and otherwise symbiotic relationship with the Rendille specifically (re-read that passage above about how the Rendille preferentially inter-marry with this particular Nilotic group over even other Cushitic-speaking populations from the area).
- As I've already pointed out before, while the Amhara, Tigray, Gurage, etc. may today speak Semitic languages (which are Afro-Asiatic languages, like Somali and, incidentally, may have even originated in Ethiopia itself), those were, for the most part, only recently adopted, as most of said peoples are actually of Agaw descent. This is why their languages all have strong Cushitic substrata (i.e. they've retained features of their original Cushitic languages), and they are biologically very closely related to other Cushitic groups from the Horn such as the Somali:
- "Blood samples from members of the Oromo and Amhara ethnic groups of central Ethiopia were tested for 10 erythrocyte protein systems: ACP1, ADA, AK1, CA2, ESD, G6PD, GLO1, HBβ, PGD, and PGM1. Differences between the two samples were relatively slight and not statistically significant. Gene frequency distributions were then analyzed in the context of the genetics of the African and Arabian peoples. Considering the erythrocyte enzyme data, the Oromo and Amhara appear quite similar to Europoids (particularly to the South Arabians) and considerably different from the Negritic peoples. There is evidence for close genetic affinity among the Cushitic- and Semitic-speaking population groups of the Horn. Admixture between Europoid and Negritic populations seems to have been the main microevolutionary factor in generating the present day Cushitic (and Semitic)-speaking group of eastern Africa. The results are consistent with the hypothesis, supported by historical and linguistic evidence, for a common origin of these groups from a Cushitic-speaking group living in eastern Africa." [13]
- The modern (not the ancient) Rendille, on the other hand, are not nearly as closely related to the modern Somali, as they have mixed with neighboring Nilotic/Bantu groups for generations, irrespective of the language they speak (the Rendille language is also not the closest language to Somali, btw; it is actually the most divergent of the "Sam" sub-group [14]):
- "The Rendille and Samburu have had close ties for many generations. They intermarry and exchange cultural ideas even though they live in separate areas, speak different languages, and have very different life-styles. Marriage between the Rendille and Samburu is subject to differences in customs. Young Rendille men are allowed to marry only at certain times, but the Samburu are not limited. Thus Samburu men often choose Rendille wives when the Rendille men are not allowed to marry. Both the Samburu and Rendille practice polygamy, which means that a man can marry more than one wife." [15] Middayexpress (talk) 00:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Looking at colorful maps is meaningless, I suggest you to actually take the time to study the figures in the supplementary data. I wrote this earlier, you didn't quite get this part it seems:
Pay some attention to figure S19 (on page 45 (supplementary data). Rendille remain clustered along with the Oromos and Beta Israel while distant groups such as the Southern Cushitic speaking Iraqw and all the Nilotic Kenyans cluster away at K set to 10 ancestral groups.
Click here to directly see this image.
I am not completely denying that they have mixed with neighboring populations, so those quotes on intermarriages are not really necessary. I could play this little game as well and show many documented relationships between certain Southern Somali clans and Bantus (would that make them any less Somali anyway?), but I find this tactic to be pseudoscientific and I rather focus on facts (genetics).
All I am saying is that this so called 'Nilo Saharan admixture' has been largely overestimated by you as shown by the Tishkoff study where they showed minimal Nilo Saharan (7.2%) and Niger-Congo (4.6%) admixture. Your notion that Borenas and Rendilles are heavily mixed with non-Northeast Africans is disproved by the study. Somalis would have had similar results to Borenas, as we know from previous yDNA and mtDNA studies that Somalis have little to no West Eurasian admixture that could possible diverge them from this group. There are theories that suggest an East African origins of haplogroup M1, so don't bother suggesting that. [[16]]. The study you showed that Amhara and Oromo are related doesn't provide us anything new that the Tishkoff study didn't cover.
Ethnicities like the Beja have assimilated groups from the Arabian peninsula as is clear in their elaveted levels of haplogroup J1 (36% in Beja[17] compared to only a mere 2.5% in Somalis[18]). On top of that their inclusion in the Cushitic language family has even been questioned.[19]. The Habesha despite being predominately Northeast African had their fair share of Semitic influences [20]. mtDNA L0a is ubiquitous in the Horn of Africa. For instance, 10.7% of Ethiopian Oromos belong to this clade [21] A localized founder effect could've increased the frequency of this haplogroup without the necessary admixture from Nilotic groups. Most of the Rendille mtDNA is quite similar to Somalis. Somalis are not completely M1, their majority haplogroup is L3, which originated in Northeastern Africa. Rendille mtDNA is not divergent from other Horn African populations.
About the linguistic data, the Rendille language is still closer to the Somali language than any of the currently listed ethnic groups on the Somali page[22]. Proven by this image [23] based on Figure S32 (page 69) from the Tishkoff study: showing linguistic relationships among populations and trees of language divergence constructed. It's evident that the Rendille language is linguistically close to Somali.
This simple fact should have just been enough to show shared ancestry between Rendille and Somali peoples. It's clear you do not want Rendille to be listed as they are too African for Somalis. I thought that showing you rational scientific data would convince you but apparently you still can't accept it. I contacted an admin about this issue and let him review it as our discussion is going in a vicious circle.
Mazi99 (talk) 21:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
- I don't play "games" nor do I particularly need to since the quotes and studies plainly indicate exactly what I have stated. Namely, that the Rendille have mixed heavily with Nilotic groups, to the point where they now actually biologically cluster with other mixed Nilotic-Cushitic groups (like the Samburu) in their own separate cluster, not with northeast African groups (including Somalis). Remember, it's you that contacted me and brought up genetics and the Tishkoff study, so there's no point now in crying foul or getting upset when neither support what it is you are claiming. The fact is, Tishkoff's purple "Cushitic cluster" -- which you have repeatedly indicated the Rendille belong to -- does not even characterize Somalis or many other groups from the Horn. The author and her co-workers explicitly state that the cluster groups together Nilo-Saharan and Cushitic speaking groups from south eastern Africa and Sudan (not the Horn), and specifically as a consequence of admixture:
- "Nilo-Saharan and Cushitic speakers from the Sudan, Kenya and Tanzania, as well as some of the Bantu speakers from Kenya, Tanzania and Rwanda (Hutu/Tutsi) constitute another cluster (purple), reflecting linguistic evidence for gene flow amongst these populations over the past ~5,000 years (27, 28)."
- By contrast, she indicates that north and northeastern Africa (including the Somali-inhabited parts of Somalia, not the Bantu-inhabited ones) form a separate, distinct 'blue' cluster of their own:
- "Another geographically contiguous cluster extends across Northern Africa (blue) into Mali (the Dogon), Ethiopia and northern Kenya. With the exception of the Dogon, these populations speak an Afroasiatic language."
- This is what your own study quite plainly indicates in the Figure 5A (the only place it actually addresses Somali areas) that the text above is describing; see [24].
- Your suggestion that the Beja are not particularly related to Somalis due to the fact that about 36% of them belong to Y haplogroup J1 is also somewhat misleading since according to that same study [25] the majority (52%) appear to belong to the E1b1b or E3b haplogroup that is common in Somalis, and they too belong to the 'blue' areas in Tishkoff's genetic map. It is also misleading because Somalis themselves aren't all E1b1b members; only about 77% are, the remainder belong to mainly Eurasian Y clades per this study [26]. Like the Beja, Semitic-speaking Ethiopian groups are mostly E1b1b bearers (reflecting their Agaw origin) and their mtDNA likewise closely matches those of their Cushitic speaking neighbors in the Horn [27]. I've also only managed to track down one study which indicates that the frequency of E1b1b in Oromos exceeds 62% (this study's estimate [28], which is not that far off from the Beja's 52%). That was in a very small sample of only 7 Boranas [29], which of course is not at all representative of that entire population.
- While it's true that Somali mtDNA is not all made up of M1, much of it is. It is also generally very different from the Rendille's mtDNA, the latter of which, as I've already pointed out, has as its most frequent lineage L0 (~23%), which is an archaic haplogroup that is common in Nilotes but not at all in Somalis. Similarly, according to Castri [30], the Rendille's second most frequent mtDNA haplogroup is the Eurasian haplogroup I, which is not that common in Somalis either. Per Harich et al. 2010, there is also a definite north-south cline that is observable in the Somali mtDNA, with the northern and central areas of Somalia showing a considerably lower frequency of all L haplogroups, including L3 (see this colorized version of the study's Figure 2b [31]). The mtDNA profile of northern Kenya, where the mixed Rendille and Kenyan Borana groups actually live, is completely different.
- But all this genetic talk is ultimately academic and does not obscure the basic fact that the modern Rendille (which is what the 'related ethnic groups' parameter pertains to) are engaged in a symbiotic relationship with Nilotic groups (the Samburu, in particular); a relationship characterized by frequent, preferential intermarriages and culturual exchanges, irrespective of what language the ancestors of the Rendille -- like the Cushitic-speaking ancestors of the similarly Bantu and/or Nilotic-influenced Iraqw, El Molo, etc. -- or the Samburu may have spoken. They are both very mixed peoples now. Insisting otherwise is what is really misleading. Middayexpress (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Again you are dodging this graph [32], which is an intra-East African structure run. The Rendille do not cluster with Samburus or other Nilotic Kenyans. Rather they cluster with Beta Israel and Oromos when the K is set to 10 inferred ancestral populations (this purple cluster is not same as the one used in earlier graphs but a new cluster in itself). Notice how El Molo and Samburu are made up of entirely different clusters compared to Rendille. Harich et al. 2010 did not study any Somalis, his maps are based on surrounding populations who have been tested (shown here [33]). He is assuming Northern Somalis have more Eurasian haplogroups merely based on geographical guesswork and not based on data gathered locally, which is meaningless in itself. Looking at mtDNA results of Ethiopian Cushites we can only assume Somalis are majority L3, since there aren't any modern studies on Somali mtDNA explicitly stating haplogroup frequencies.
I find this genetics talk a bit redundant, the Rendille language is closely related to the Somali language. This should be enough - end of story. If these are your final remarks I still see no reason why they should not be allowed, so does Gyrofrog [34].
Mazi99 (talk) 01:11, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- Language doesn't necessarily mean much, as populations mix and adopt new tongues all the time. Many modern Oromos, for example, are actually assimilated Omotic peoples, as Ethiopianist scholars among other have pointed out ([35]). The Rendille are a mixed people, as their mtDNA and many documented cases of intermarriages with Nilotes clearly show. And no, the Rendille do not cluster with the Beta Israel. That link you posted is a structure run, not a relational tree which actually shows clustering in unambiguous terms. When I say that even the Cape Coloured group of South Africa and the Dogon of West Africa were closer to the Beta Israel or the Beja, I mean that Figure 1 on page 8 of the study proper includes such a tree that explicitly shows this. In terms of mtDNA, Somalis are also not most commonly L3; they are mostly M1:
- "We analysed mtDNA variation in ~250 persons from Libya, Somalia, and Congo/Zambia, as representatives of the three regions of interest. Our initial results indicate a sharp cline in M1 frequencies that generally does not extend into sub-Saharan Africa. While our North and especially East African samples contained frequencies of M1 over 20%, our sub-Saharan samples consisted almost entirely of the L1 or L2 haplogroups only. In addition, there existed a significant amount of homogeneity within the M1 haplogroup. This sharp cline indicates a history of little admixture between these regions. This could imply a more recent ancestry for M1 in Africa, as older lineages are more diverse and widespread by nature, and may be an indication of a back-migration into Africa from the Middle East." [36] Middayexpress (talk) 01:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
That study doesn't state any frequencies. Only the fact that M1 is found in relatively high frequencies but not explicitly how much. Ethiopians are an indication how Somali mtDNA would look like: [37]. Haplogroup L3 and M1 both arose in Eastern Africa so why are we even discussing this? M1 is essentially L3 (it just means L3m1).
Mazi99 (talk) 01:50, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The study above indicates a frequency range of well over 20% of M1 in both the Libyan and Somali samples. If L3 were the most common clade in Somalis, then the authors wouldn't cluster them with the North African sample as they do nor would they emphasize M1 or indicate that there was "a history of little admixture between these regions". For the rest, the scholarly consensus is that M1 arose in Asia, and arrived in northern Africa via a back-migration. M1 is also not essentially L3. It is a relatively recent sub-clade of macrohaplogruop M, which appears to be the most common mtDNA lineage in Asia. It directly descends from South Asian lineages, not Ethiopian ones. That link you produced also leads to an original user-made map, not an official one. The actual official mtDNA data (i.e. this study [38]) generally indicates that the most common mtDNA clade in most of the studied Cushitic and Semitic speaking groups alike in the Horn is M1, not L3. Middayexpress (talk) 02:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
An Asian origin of M1 is not conclusive [39]. M1 is a sub-clade of L3 [40] (I'm surprised you didn't know this). It isn't a 'recent' M haplogroup either as it is estimated to be over ~50,000 years old [41]. Over 20% M1 means nothing, why couldn't they just stated the frequencies like all other studies do? It leaves room for a lot of L3.
You are hilarious, your own sources consistantly contradict yourself. M1 vs L3 frequencies per [42]
Cushitic Speakers M1=14% L3=24% Amhara M1=16% L3=20% Gurages M1=14% L3=15% Tigrais M1=17% L3=12% Ethiopians M1=17% L3=16.4% (only a mere 0.6% difference)
Frequencies vary per study and place were the samples were gathered, but a general consensus is that both L3 and M1 (which IS a L3 sub-clade) make up most of the mtDNA in the Horn.
Mazi99 (talk) 02:51, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- Nah; the modern scholarly consensus is that M1 originated in Asia (ex. [43]). And this specifically has to do with the fact that M1 is younger or more downstream (that is what I mean by 'recent') than the many Asian sub-clades of its parent macrohaplogroup M, the latter of which is almost exclusively found in that continent. You can also rationalize the Holden study and its actual statements on M1 however you like, but it too unfortunately won't change what the authors have actually indicated. Not that this really matters either, but it's actually typically your "own sources" (your misreading of Tishkoff, in particular) that have contradicted you. This one time, though, I will concede that I did not notice that many of the listed L sub-clades in that study belonged to L3. Oops. Only >50% of all the studied Ethiopian samples (including the Cushitic speakers) are made up of Eurasian mtDNA clades [44]. My bad. I'll also ask you to stop writing me. The Rendille thing is settled, so we have nothing further to discuss. I'm also not particularly interested in idle chat. If I had been, I would've indulged those personal questions you asked me earlier, but of course I didn't. Middayexpress (talk) 03:17, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
It's evident that you are a novice when it comes down to population genetics. Thank you for the wonderful discussion on the Rendille, this is my final message to you. Cheers!
Mazi99 (talk) 03:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- Whatever you say man. Middayexpress (talk) 03:41, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Recent edits
Hi, I've noticed an unfortunate trend of edits like this. Could you please stop these edits. They're disrupting the flow of the article completely. It's just sentence after sentence in a really robotic fashion, rather than good writing, where it flows. The rest of the changes are good; it's just that these types of edits are harming the readability. Thank you. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:14, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
- That was a run-on sentence. But your point is taken. Middayexpress (talk) 02:15, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
- Cheers. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:17, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
|This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.


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Pink Marzipan Fingers
30 Jan 2009
IngredientsSee Ingredients in Direction
Add I or 2 tablespoonfuls of orange-flower water, and 3 drops of cochineal, gradually to 8 02.
of ground almonds.
Warm this mixture gently in a saucepan, with 5 oz.
of caster sugar, until it no longer sticks to the saucepan.
Leave it to cool, roll out, cut into fingers and bake in a very mild oven.
Rate It
0 Comments
Pink Marzipan Fingers Recipe

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Secondary menu
BBC's Panorama accuses charity of investing in shares that contradict several of its core aims
Doctors and priests should be required by law to report suspicions of child abuse, says outgoing DPP
Claims a Tory MP and three peers accepted cash for lobbying unmasks the 'murkier side of politics'
Broadcaster says reporter posing as academic is justified, but were students properly informed?
I'm the man for the job, says Question Time host – but many would like to see an outsider brought in
Documentary reports claims that Top of the Pops was a centre of abuse and Savile targeted both boys and girls
Tonight's Panorama takes issue with the accounts of Newsnight Editor Peter Rippon and the BBC's Director-General
On eve of crucial Panorama, former DG claims it's unlikely Newsnight received orders from above – but is he right?
As a crucial email is leaked to The Times, can Panorama get to the bottom of the great Newsnight mystery?
Refs will be allowed to stop any match hit by racist abuse – but Balotelli is warned not to take action
'It's not all bad here' say Ukrainians, and just wait until Russia hosts the World Cup
More claims of hooliganism, Nazi salutes and attacks on children in Ukraine and Poland
Media mogul hits out as allegations of hacking corporate rivals in Europe and Australia pile up
Alex Ferguson bemoans
Premier League's pact with
broadcasters and says they
should be paying more
Business digest: BBC research shows average employee earns £1,088 less than in 2009
Unlikely Panorama investigation into Tory peer's tax affairs will be shown before election, if at all
Veteran actor warns that new child protection rules could undermine British theatre
Bloggers attack the BBC for wasting Panorama documentary on well-worn Ryanair moans


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Jake Lamotta shadow boxing at 89
View Single Post
How about a fair shake?
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Re: Jake Lamotta shadow boxing at 89
Originally Posted by
john garfield
Seeing this LaMotta thread, (with apologies to those who've read them) thought you might get kick outta these LaMotta memories:
RAGING BULL doesn't begin to hint at how volcanic Jake's rages were. Anything would set him off. Any time. Any place.
He was murder goin' someplace to happen. The worst bad guys wanted no part of him.
But when Jake hung-'em-up he went into showbiz -- had to keep a tight rein on his temper. He was tested daily.
This two incidents should illustrate:
He Jake got work in films as a character heavy -- took it seriously, wanted to be as good an actor as he was a fighter. He enrolled in John Cassevettes' Theatre Workshop in New York and did scenes to hone his craft.
I went to watch him one day. He was on stage doing some Tennessee Williams' monologue. It was curious listening to the poetry of those words comin' outta Jake's mouth-- half cement truck -- all Bronx.
While he was walkin' the stage reciting his lines, a reed-thin, fey young actor who had no idea who Jake was, bounded on stage: "Your rehearsal time is over! It's my time now! Get off the stage!"
Ill just be a minute," Jake said softly
The kid -- Actor's-Studio intense -- stepped closer to Jake: "No. Now! Get off!"
Jake said, "But... n the kid SLAPPED Jake LaMotta in the face. " NOW!"
Jake just looked at him, like a Great White Shark poised over chum... and said ever so gently, "Don't do that," and walked off stage.
That actor had no idea how abruptly his career almost ended.
On another occasion, I was in PJ Clarke's, a N.Y. pub for the sports crowd. LaMotta could be found at the bar daily with his co-writer on RAGING BULL.
LaMotta was relaxing with his back against the bar -- trademark stogie in his mouth. A sweaty little guy in an ill-fitting suit came through the front door, spotted Jake 'n made b-line for him.
The little guy planted himself in front of LaMotta, regaling him -- and all in the bar -- with how he saw Jake KO some guy in New Orleans, demonstrating by wind-milling punches furiously...much too close to LaMotta's face.
LaMotta didnt move a muscle or change expression. The guy's swings an eyelash away.
Sure enough, one landed flush on the cigar -- flattened it against LaMotta's face, like Wile e Coyote.
After a long pause, Jake looked heavenward: "Why me?"
Excellent read, thank you
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iStockphoto Announces More Free Photos for Microsoft Office Users
- Posted: Mar 21, 2008 at 3:40AM
- 234 views
iStockphoto, one of the top online destinations for stock images announced the extension of its year-old program to provide low-res images and illustrations online, for free, to Microsoft Office users via Microsoft Office Online. Because the initial run of the program was so successful, iStockphoto will actually be increasing the number of photos they are making available. They are also planning to expand the program to new languages and countries in the upcoming year. The iStockphoto site benefits from links to higher quality photos that are available from the Microsoft web site which helps those users who need high-res images.
The clip art is available directly from http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/clipart/ or from within Microsoft Office software.
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Government employees seeking to procure these items in their official capacity must enter the order on their government procurement forms.
The sleek pocketknives in the SlimLine series have the same positive locking action that made Buck Knives famous. Made in the USA
© 1995-2016 by Howard Korn and KnifeCenter Inc. All rights reserved.
5201 Lad Land Dr, Fredericksburg, VA 22407 - 800.338.6799 (Phone Orders Welcome)


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This summer I was fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to visit Namibia along with 9 other young people and 5 leaders. Our visit was focused around the rural north of the country, an area which has strong ties to the Diocese of Manchester. However, before the trip could even take place we had to raise money to both fund the costs of travel and to help support the projects we hoped to undertake. In total, we raised £40,000 through events ranging from concerts to sponsored abseils. Also, in school, over £1,100 was raised, mainly through a sponsored climb of Mount Everest on the school climbing wall and a sponsored walk to school.
When in Namibia this money enabled us to carry out a huge variety of projects. Firstly, it helped to fund the construction of a dormitory building at a rural school to allow children who live huge distances away to continue attending throughout the long wet season (when otherwise they would simply be unable to). Furthermore, we were able to provide resources for and teach in schools and kindergartens (this included teaching Tag Rugby to the older students in the schools) whilst we also painted and decorated kindergarten buildings. The trip was a fantastic experience, allowing us to meet some inspirational people and come away with memories which will remain with us for the rest of our lives.
Community Coordinator: Heather Tunstall
Website: www.boltonschool.org


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Jeremy Messersmith
Jeremy Messersmith has that certain je ne sais quoi. His sad lyrics/happy melody coupling isn't brand-new, but it's done in a way that conjures images of a still-upright Elliott Smith performing songs intended for Brian Wilson or A.C. Newman—not a bad spot to be in, all told. Last year's sophomore effort, The Silver City, a charming love letter to Minneapolis that never got mushy or contrived, made it onto many local critics' best-of lists for good reason. Messersmith's lyrics are ultra-smart and literate like Colin Meloy's, without being off-putting the way the latter's so often are; the melodies are simple without ever being cheesy or too precious for their own good. In short, it's intelligent music that can be enjoyed without a dictionary close at hand. It's easy to enjoy on its own merits, and that's commendable. With folk duo KaiserCartel.
Sat., May 9, 7 p.m., 2009
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What Xi Wants
Watching the Shirt-Sleeves Summit From China
Today, Chinese President Xi Jinping and U.S. President Barack Obama are meeting at the Walter and Leonore Annenberg estate in California. Some have suggested that the timing and venue are odd -- for protocol reasons, it is Obama's turn to travel to China for a formal state visit. (Xi came to the United States in 2012.) But it is a good thing that the leaders are apparently more interested in substance than formalities. Both are aware of the need to develop a new type of great-power relationship built on partnership. The question is how to translate that idea into reality. The easiest way is for them to roll up their sleeves and work on an issue-by-issue basis. The more problems Obama and Xi solve together, the more trustful their relationship will become. And that will help them move on to even bigger issue.
Among the more likely topics that will come up today are economic relations, North Korea, maritime disputes in the South China Sea and East China Sea, cyber security, military-to-military relations, climate change, and people-to-people contact. On economic relations, both countries have benefited a great deal from trade in the last decade. Now they have an interest in jointly addressing high-tech export policy, investment regulations, intellectual property protection, and government procurement policy, all of which are the topic of heated debate and could derail ties. For his part, Xi will likely be pushing for the liberalization of U.S. high-tech export policy and improved access for Chinese
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text:
I want to use launchd to kick off a script to backup changed files. It looks like it should work for what I want to do, but I don't know how to pass to my script that launchd starts, the path of the updated file. So if I'm watching directory foo and file bar.txt is changed, how do I get my launchd.plist or the script it runs to get the value of bar.txt?
I haven't found any way to do it with launchd. Could you just use rsync or something? Or check the modification dates in the script, by for example using find if it's a shell script:
Folder actions do get pathnames as an argument, but they are only run when files are added to a folder and not when files are modified. You can create a folder action by using the folder action template in Automator, or by saving a script like the one below in


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IMAP Software
- Translations: Russian ×
Remote Mail Drive
Remote Mail Drive. PHP System for sharing files from e-mail box. By this system you can publishing big files.
phlyMail Lite
phlyMail is a Webmail and data hosting application. It features IMAP, POP3, SMS, Fax support, a Calendar, Bookmarks, files manager. Multiuser and single user editions available.


text:
☆ real goods we reproduce the color as much as possible, but see the monitor
To differences in color and your phone with color and texture than the actual product is different
You may have. Please be forewarned.
Also wear the wrap, check
Wear Good! The is a 2-way high-cut.
☆ featured how to put on!
Fold up a bit on the Hyatt, plaid
履けます quite stylish in and wear them out.
Please try it!
Loose it is.
Always than leather shoes size 1/2 size down
The choice of.
Material: artificial leather
This product cannot be shipped to United States from the store.
Please contact the store for further information.


text:
The Manhattan High girls' soccer team ended its regular season about as well as any team could.
By the end of the Centennial League track meet, Manhattan High head coach Jesse Woodard was dealing with conflicting emotions.
As has been the case much of the season, the Manhattan High softball team needed a big hit Thursday.
On paper, pairing the junior tandem of Kirkland Lambert and Collin Queal into a formidable doubles team made a lot of sense.
The Manhattan High boys' golf team took third place at the Lawrence High Invitational at Alvamar Golf Course on Wednesday, finishing six strokes out of first place behind Shawnee Mission East and Blue Valley North.
Mike Sanchez doesn't know if Cailey Perkins is the all-time freshman scoring leader for the Manhattan High girls' soccer program.
The Manhattan High softball team bounced back from a pair of losses to Hayden last week by sweeping the Emporia Spartans on the road, winning 15-2 and 10-0 Tuesday evening.
Playing at the Emporia Invitational, a portion of the Manhattan High boys' golf team took second place behind Washburn Rural on Monday afternoon.
A week after winning the program's first-ever Centennial League title, Indians added a regional championship to their ledger, edging Washburn Rural once again for the team title while qualifying all six of its varsity players to the Class 6A state tournament.
For an entire half on Monday evening, the Manhattan High girls' soccer team was playing well enough to win but not up to its potential.
Although the Manhattan High softball team put up a fight in both games, the scoreboard didn't show it against Hayden Friday evening in Anneberg Park.
At times on Friday evening at Bishop Stadium, the match between Hayden and Manhattan felt more like a hockey game as the Wildcats tried to push the younger Indians around.
As the Manhattan High track and field team prepares for the postseason, the Indians typically use the Salina Central Invitational as a final tune-up and a chance to rest tired legs.
The Manhattan High baseball team has struggled with plate discipline and consistency this season, but showed just how good they could be in a split with previously undefeated Hayden on Friday.
If the weather allowed for it, the Manhattan High girls' soccer team knew it had a favorable chance of defeating the Highland Park Scots on Thursday afternoon.
Top-seeded Shawnee Mission West defeated the Indians, 1-0, in double overtime in the semifinal round of the Class 6A state tournament on Saturday in Junction City with a sudden-death goal.
Manhattan's seniors scored six of the 10 goals on the night, while the offense allowed the game to get called 10 minutes early because of mercy rules.
The Indians salvaged a split on senior night with a 7-4 win to help erase the sting of a 13-5 loss in Game 1.
Despite the lopsided win, Manhattan head coach Mike Sanchez said he admired the way the Scots handled themselves in defeat.
The Manhattan High girls' soccer team didn't let the less-than-ideal weather stop it from crushing Wichita Heights in an 8-0 rout.
The Indians are headed to the Blue Valley Northwest Invitational, which features some of the top tennis programs in both Kansas and Missouri.
In a dogfight with Washburn Rural on Friday night and in desperate need of a game-tying bucket, Manhattan worked hard to get quality shots.
The Indians had to overcome a sluggish start to beat the Trojans at home, 57-38.
Manhattan was so dominant in the third quarter, turning what had been a close game into a blowout en route to a 66-56 win.
The Indians defeated Paola (57-18), Smith Center (39-33), Shawnee Heights (49-21) and the Manhattan "B" team (60-6).
With the win, Manhattan advances to host Thursday's regional final against sixth-seeded Hutchinson (11-6-0), which defeated Topeka High, 2-0.
The loss spoiled an otherwise festive night at Bishop Stadium.
Manhattan's win over Rural is a good sign with regionals just a few short weeks away.
Facing an offense that likes to throw the ball, Manhattan High tightened up its coverage and contained the pass game in a 50-7 win over Topeka West on Friday at Bishop Stadium.
The Indians received their first real test of the season against the Wildcats, and though they played well enough to win for much of the night, Schumacher made a pair of back-breaking plays against Manhattan's defense to help Hayden scrape together a hard-fought 21-14 win.
The Indians led 42-0 at halftime before dialing it back in the second half and allowing Seaman's first-team players to get some offense going against Manhattan's backups.
The Indians took the lead early in the first half and were never really threatened by the Lions in their season opener at Bishop Stadium.
In many cases, high school sports offer its participants the chance to learn life lessons through competition.
The win over Dodge City sends Manhattan on the road for Tuesday's 6 p.m. quarterfinal against Maize (17-1).
Despite a slow start, Manhattan defeated Junction City by mercy-rule in only 56 minutes, winning 10-0 to set up Thursday's regional final against Dodge City at Bishop Stadium, scheduled to begin at 6 p.m.
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text:
6 Reviews
A really delicious combination. I brushed the eggplant with olive oil before broiling and added tinned mushrooms minus the juice. I used mild cheddar cheese (didn't have Montrachet). The leftovers were put on a pizza base, excellent. Thanks for posting this.
I liked this recipe. It was easy and tasty. I didn't have capers and it came out just fine. I sprinkled the top with feta cheese, which blended well with the dish. I served it with toasted french bread, it was great. I highly suggest it.
My kids ate this! I minced the mushrooms and capers in a foodprocessor before adding them so nobody noticed the mushrooms. I used regular hard cheese as I don't like goat cheese, and halved the amount. This is a keeper.
The only way I've ever made eggplant in the past is breaded and fried. I've been wanting to try a meatless recipe, so finally took the plunge with yours. I did'nt have the fresh thyme so I used 1 and 1/2 dried teaspoons. My husband liked it, and he does'nt eat eggplant. I told him after he admitted to liking it what it was, and he was cool with that. You were also correct about the kitchen smelling good. Thanks Sansy
SO good! A great vegetable alternative. I didn't have the capers, but it was still very good. The fresh herbs give it a lovely flavor.
I was puzzled as to why the eggplant wasn't peeled, so I sliced it as directed-broiled it, then peeled and cut it into chucks. Also I felt that the tomatoes and mushrooms needed to be cut into small dice as this was very difficult to place on cut-up baquette slices and eat. There also wasn't any sauce to soak up. All in all I would make it again but just make some adjustments in the size of the vegetables. The flavor was great and my guests did enjoy it. In fact I put it on the table and we at more as an accompaniment to our steak.


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ASUS Radeon HD 6770 DirectCU Silent review -
DX11: Battlefield Bad Company 2
DX11: Battlefield Bad Company 2
The Battlefield series has been running for quite a while. The last big entry in the series, Bad Company, was a console exclusive, much to the disappointment of PC gamers everywhere. DICE broke the exclusivity with the sequel, thankfully, and now PC owners are treated to the best Battlefield since Battlefield 2.
The plot follows the four soldiers of Bad Company as they track down a "new" super weapon in development by Russian forces. You might not immediately get that this game is about Bad Company, as the intro mission starts off with a World War II raid, but it all links together in the end.
Next to being a great game for gameplay, it's also an awesome title to test both, graphics cards and processors. The game has native support for DirectX 11 and on the processor testing side of things, parallelized processing supporting two to eight parallel threads, which is great if you have a quad core processor.
We opt to test DX11 solely for this title as we want to look at the most modern performance and image quality. DX11 wise we get as extras, softened dynamic shadows and shader based performance improvements. A great game to play, a great game image quality wise. We raise the bar, image quality settings wise:
- Level: Upriver
- DirectX 11 enabled
- 8x Multi-sample Anti-Aliasing
- 16 Anisotropic Filtering
- All image quality settings enabled at maximum
Above, we see performance scaling of this game with a variety of DX11 cards at 8xAA and 16xAF.
We review the ASUS Radeon R9 390X STRIX. The card's equipped with that renamed Hawaii GPU, now called Grenada. Thanks to a huge triple slot air cooler based on the new DirectCU III design the product...
ASUS Radeon R9 Fury STRIX review
We review the ASUS Radeon R9 Fury STRIX, this cut-down version of the Fiji XT GPU comes with the new ASUS DirectCU III air-cooler. Armed with 4GB HBM memory we'll have a look as to how the product ...
ASUS Radeon R9 380 STRIX review
In this review we look at the new ASUS Radeon R9 380 STRIX. Armed with a silent cooler this Tonga GPU based product bring you mainstream gaming at a price of roughly 200 USD - With 2GB of grap...
ASUS Radeon R7-370 STRIX Review
We review the AMD Radeon R7-370 series. That means 1080P gaming will become in reach at an affordable 149 USD price level. Based on older architecture this product now is reinjected as the 370 series...


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IMDb > Diana (Character)
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Filmographiesby yearby typeby ratingsby votesby TV seriesby genreby keyword
Did You Know?photo galleryquotes
Diana (Character)
from Into the Night (1985)
The content of this page was created by users. It has not been screened or verified by IMDb staff.
|Photos (See all 3 | slideshow)
There may be more photos available for this character. To select more photos to be displayed in this character's gallery, click the Edit Photos link.
FilmographyEdit Credits
There may be more credits available for this character. To edit the credits displayed or to add more credits to this character's filmography, click the Edit Credits link.
Jump to filmography: Archive Footage
- Into the Night (1985) Played by Michelle Pfeiffer
Archive Footage:
- "Special Collector's Edition"
... aka "Edición Especial Coleccionista" - Spain (original title)
- Especial redoblajes (2011) TV episode, Played by Michelle Pfeiffer
Additional Details
Fun Stuff
From Into the Night (1985)
Diana: If he's still there, you better let him go if you ever want to see those stones alive... a-again... ever. See more »
Diana: If he's still there, you better let him go if you ever want to see those stones alive... a-again... ever. See more »
You may correct errors and omissions on this page directly. Clicking the 'Update' button will take you through a step-by-step process.


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Like the title says. Is there any of getting these? Can I trade with someone who has them or are they account bound?
No, there is no way to get wings without Collectors Edition. The wings are account bound.
Otherwise everybody would have them, because you get a new pair of wings on every new character.


text:
You mentioned a veterinary GI specialist on the show – could I get their name? I have a third cat with what seems to be irritable bowel disease and between the cats' discomfort and the nonstop poop – I am desparate. I have taken the cats to regular general practice vets and have done the novel protein, prednisolone shot/pills, probiotics. aloe vera water, etc. I really need to find a vet who is expert in GI issues…
Thank you,
Dear Jackson,
I'm new to your show. I'm so enthused to find someone who shares my passion and approach to felines. I've been blessed to share the company of many cats and they have enriched my life beyond my expectations.
I am recently divorced and for the first time in my adult life I am without the company of a cat to share my life. I hope to rectify that in the near future.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom, and more importantly your love, for cats. There really are no bad cats. We just need to have some patience and understanding to have a deeply fulfilling relationship with our feline partners.
Thank you for your work and show.
Hello obviously we watch your show.
We have 9 indoor Ferrell cats and 1 in and out. 5outside we care for. I don't understand why some one would not get it if they want this kind of child. We have three boxes and you can never even smell ours. I like your show. Keep the knowledge going! Check out Mrs Kitty cat house in Presscott,AZ they helped me with a handicapped lady, long story! Oh I live in black canyon city, AZ. Home of Ferrell abuse.
Candy. Rains
Jackson. I have 2 cats which i rescued that the mother abandon one at 4 weeks the other about 4 weeks. The older of the two attacks anyone other than me that walks in my home. I have great neices neices and other family members that visit and help me out because I'm disabled. He's so nasty he flies up and attaches himself to peopls legs and draws blood when hes clawing. I don't know why he does this but i need to figure out how to stop him because I'm actually afraid someone will sue me for injuries. HELP tell me how to get him to stop.
I wanted to mention that I have a cat, a bengal, that urinated on the floor all the time in the same spot until I had her spayed. The smell was so bad because it seeped into the wood floor, so I took some baking soda and spread it on the floor in the spot of where she would pee, and it took the smell away completely. But I also did this before I had her spayed and she would not go near the baking soda on the floor. She would go to the litter box. I clean the litter box daily because we have two cats. I also wanted to say that if anyone knows how cats communicate with other cats let me know as I believe that one cat outside is telling other cats if they are hungry to come to my back door and look into the kitchen screen door and I will feed them. I don't know how they do it but I am sure they communicate with one another. :))
We have 3 cats, 1 is 16 yrs old the other 2 are 4 yrs old and brought into our home at 4 weeks and bottle fed. The older cat would clean one of the kittens since she never had kittens. In the past 2 months Zia the old cat has not been using the litter box. The other two cats have starting chasing and fighting her, though she was a feral cat caught around 3 weeks old she has never been a fighter. I have taken her to the vet she has no infections, I bought Feliway diffusers and spray and still she wets and poops everywhere but the box. My husband wants me to put her down. But I have no problems when I travel out of town to work she goes with me. What am I going to do??? She has also lost a lot of weight she use to weigh nearly 20 lbs in her youth and now she is around 10 lbs. I can't stand the thought of losing her, please help me. Tonight I had to lock her in her carrier. We have 4 litter boxes, cleaned daily.
Try the spirit of Essence sprays & drops..safe space & stress stopper..Has helped in my three cat household…Two girls and a male…The male was having issues of spraying…You can spray the cat and put drops in their water….with both products…I was ready to put my male cat to sleep….this has helped a lot….
My son and his wife have a male Bombay, Felix, age approximately 12-14. Felix will pee in his litter box, but has taken on the habit of pooping in their dining room, on a spot about 10-12 feet from the box. They have tried everything, pheromone sprays, through cleaning, putting the box in the dining room, but nothing helps. Felix started this behavior a few months into my daughter-in-law's pregnancy-their child was born October 4th, 2013. The cat is perfectly fine with the baby, and they are careful to give Felix extra attention. They are at their wit's end trying to help Felix overcome whatever is upsetting him. I suggested they use the pheromone plug-ins in the "litter room", also they cover the litter box, although they say Felix doesn't like a box top. I also suggested cleaning with an enzyme cleanser on the carpet.
Does anyone have other suggestions to help these new parents? They love Felix a lot and are upset they can't help him. While it's wonderful Felix is okay with their baby daughter, his pooping in the dining room is not acceptable to anyone except Felix. I'd appreciate anyone's advice if you've had luck coping with this kind of issue.
God Bless the beasts and the children.
Dear Jackson,
My son and I love your show, and are amazed at what you accomplish. Anyway, we have 2 cats, which are really good cats. However, one of them, out of no where, decides that he would rather pee on clothing, than in his litter box. He doesn't do this often, but when he does, it of course is annoying. In the past, we have had problems with UTI's, and I wonder if this is a precursor to a UTI? There boxes are clean, so I know that it's not a "hey, my bathroom is dirty, so fix it", situation. I would appreciate any suggestions that you can offer.
Recently, one of our male cats had crystals. We got him to the vet, he's had antibiotics and other treatments, and he's now on a permanent special diet.
Since then out little boy is now urinating everywhere. Like he's still got the crystals (which we can confirm he doesn't).
We are at a loss what to do.
There's three litter trays throughout the home which he does use but then he goes in corners on shoes etc. We can't leave anything down and all our rugs have had to come up.
Can you please help, suggest anything?
Hello Jackson I'm a huge fan and I love your show, not only is it heart warming it informative. we have even used some of the things we have seen to great success. But one of our three cats Simba, a 6 year old domesticated long hair, has stopped using the litter box he has mainly keep it to the bathroom but has since branched out from there. We have tried changing the litter 5 times thinking that was it and no change we also have three litter boxes and change them everyday and that didn't help either. We have a baby in the apartment and don't want her to find anything unpleasant. If this issue is not resolved then we will be forced to get rid of him and I don't want to think like that. PLEASE if you have any suggestions or ideas I would be very grateful.
Grayson is almost 3 years old, male and neutered at about 6 months. He has always used the litter box. I recently fed him cheaper food for about two weeks instead of the Wellness I had been using. He got diarrhea and put it everywhere! He now will not use that litter box. If I put him in it, he jumps out. What do I do to retrain him?
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We regret that Jackson does not answer questions posted in the comments. This is due to his demanding schedule and the high volume of requests he receives. But most importantly, since he has not met your cat, it would be contrary to his approach for him to give specific personalized advice for your specific situation. That being said, general questions and issues are addressed throughout this blog, in his book Cat Daddy and of course, the show My Cat From Hell.


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Alleged Harrassing Cop Spares a Kind Word for the Kids
Accused of wishing death upon his ex-girlfriend, not their children.
The text messages an NYPD sergeant allegedly sent his former girlfriend, also a cop, are very disturbing. But at least they include kind words about about the children. From the New York Daily News: "'I f**king wish death upon you, but I love our children,' he texted on July 14, according to the criminal complaint." Talk about mixed messages.


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Frank Mears
Sir Frank Charles Mears PPRSA FRSE LLD (11 July 1880 – 25 January 1953) was an architect and one of Scotland's first planners in the 1930s and 1940s.
Born in Tynemouth he moved to Edinburgh around 1890 when his father, Dr William Pope Mears, received a lecturing post in the Anatomy Department of Edinburgh University.
He initially trained under the architect Hippolyte Blanc (1896-1901) and then in 1903 under Robert Weir Schultz. In 1906 after various tours he returned to Scotland and worked under Ramsay Traquair. In 1908 he became an assistant to Patrick Geddes working on a Survey of Edinburgh for the first ever Town Planning Exhibition (1910).
He worked with Geddes and his daughter Norah on the creation of A Scottish National Zoological Garden 1913-14 which became Edinburgh Zoo. In 1915 he married Norah Geddes, making Patrick Geddes his father-in-law.
In World War I he served in the Royal Flying Corps (Kite Balloon section) and importantly invented the modern parachute (and quick release buckle) whilst serving as a Major in this role.
In 1926 he founded the Association for the Preservation of Rural Scotland.
In 1931 he created a "Plan for Edinburgh" and in 1935 founded the first Town Planning course at the Edinburgh College of Art whilst Head of the School. He also advised the Department of Health on Housing in Scotland.
Mears was elected an Associate of the Royal Scottish Academy in 1936, became full academician in 1943 and served as its President 1944-50. The University of Edinburgh conferred an honorary doctorate (LLD) on him in 1945, and he was knighted in 1946.[1]
He died in Christchurch, New Zealand whilst visiting his son, Kenneth Patrick Geddes Mears (1916-2001). His body was returned to Edinburgh for cremation. A memorial plaque is placed to his memory on the south side of Warriston Crematorium above a plaque to his other two sons both of whom died young: Alastair Mears (1918-1939) and John M. Mears (1921-1949).
Mears was employed across Scotland but also was given roles in Ireland and Palestine.
- Master plan for Hebrew University of Jerusalem, 1919[2]
- County Planning in East Lothian (1933-1950)
- Renewal of Stirling's Old Town (1936-1953)
- Central and South East Scotland Plan (1946)
Online references[edit]
- Frank Mears pages on the website of Graeme Purves
- http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2987551
- G. Purves, An Introduction to the Work of Sir Frank Mears, Research Paper No. 4, Department of Town and Country Planning, Edinburgh College of Art, 1983.
- G. Purves, The Life and Work of Sir Frank Mears, Ph.D. Thesis, Heriot-Watt University, 1988.
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