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Mother Who Questions Vax at Hospital Has Newborn Taken AwayActivism, Parent Rights, Vaccination
I am having a great deal of trouble typing this post. I am so upset and outraged over what was done to Jodi Ferris and her baby at the Penn State Hershey Medical Center in Pennsylvania shortly after she gave birth that I am having difficulty staying composed enough to write a coherent story.
If you recall, this is the same area of the state where officials allowed a serial child molester like Jerry Sandusky, former Penn State assistant football coach, to go free for decades and continue to abuse children unfortunate enough to come across his lecherous path while a mother who gives birth in a government hospital has her baby taken away for questioning whether vaccination with Hep B is truly necessary.
Does something seem very very wrong with this picture?
Jodi and Scott Ferris' Story
Jodi had hoped to have a homebirth. After going into labor early and given the distance to the nearest hospital, Jodi and her husband Scott were advised by their midwife to call an ambulance and get to the hospital.
Jodi and Scott's baby girl was born in the ambulance in the parking lot of Hershey Medical Center. Attending personnel at the government run facility took charge of "Annie" and Jodi very quickly.
Jodi was unable to see and hold Annie after the birth and hospital personnel were totally unresponsive when she continued to inquire about her newborn. Jodi was also given an injection of oxytocin without first being told what it was. Hospital personnel only inquired whether she was allergic after the injection was given.
Jodi's persistent inquires about Annie continued to go unheeded. She was simply told that "she is in good hands and you'll be able to see her soon".
Finally, a doctor told Jodi that Annie had scored a 9 out of 10 on the APGAR test given to newborns which was very good considering that an 8 or above indicates a healthy child.
A short time later, a different doctor told Jodi that Annie was very sick and would need to stay in the hospital. This doctor also arrogantly indicated his dislike for midwives with the comment "too many people think they know what they're doing".
About an hour after being told Annie was very sick, Annie was finally brought to Jodi. She was told Annie was doing well and would be able to go home shortly.
Baby Detained at Hospital For No Medical Reason
A few hours later, the story changed yet again as another hospital staffer told Jodi and Scott that Annie would have to remain in the hospital for 48-72 hours for observation.
When they inquired why, they were told that the "law" required Annie to stay for at least 48 hours.
There is no such law in Pennsylvania, by the way.
After consulting with risk management about why Annie had to stay at the hospital, it was admitted that even though Annie was fine and there was no reason she couldn't go home, she was being held prisoner at the hospital for 48-72 hours not for any health reasons but out of concern that if anything went wrong after Annie was discharged that the hospital might get sued.
Hospital risk management ultimately relented and said a 24 hour waiting period was sufficient and that Jodi and Scott could stay with their baby overnight.
A Parent's Worst Nightmare Begins
Later that day, a social worker came to Jodi and Scott's room and announced that she was going to conduct an investigation of them.
The social worker also claimed that it was "against the law" to show Jodi the allegations before she was questioned.
When Jodi resisted and said that she was not comfortable answering questions when she didn't even know what was going on, the social worker threatened to call police and take custody of her baby.
It soon became apparent that the problem was Jodi and Scott's apparent refusal to consent to medical treatments for Annie. The social worker claimed that she had refused the Vitamin K shot for Annie. Jodi said that no one had even asked her about the shot and that Annie had already been given the shot based on a conversation she overhead from hospital personnel.
The social worker was unable to provide a single example of necessary medical treatment that Jodi and Scott had refused.
Scott had to leave shortly after that as their older children were staying with friends and he had to go attend to them.
Hep B Vaccine Questioned
After Scott left, hospital staff demanded that Annie be given the Hepatitis B vaccine. Jodi said that would be fine if she and Annie were tested to see if they actually had Hep B first.
The social worker pressed Jodi to consent to the shot immediately even though no testing for Hep B could be done that day. Jodi asked if she could wait until Scott got back before a decision was made.
Once again, the social worker threatened to call police and take custody of Annie if Jodi did not make an immediate decision about the Hep B vaccine. She also pressed for Jodi to sign a "safety plan" so she could conclude her investigation.
Jodi said that she wanted her husband and an attorney present before she signed such a document as she felt that she was in no physical state to read and sign it at that time.
Annie Taken Into Police Custody
When the social worker could not pressure Jodi to sign the document, she went and called police.
With no court order, police took custody of Annie claiming she was ill which was completely false.
With Annie now in her custody, the social worker approved the Hep B vaccine for Annie, completely overruling the desires and wishes of her parents to have their baby tested for Hep B first before the vaccine was administered.
Then, the hospital kicked Jodi out of the hospital where she was told she could return every 3 hours to nurse Annie.
Scott rushed back to meet Jodi at the hospital entrance as she was being escorted out and with nowhere to go, they spent the night in the parking lot of the hospital, sleeping in the car while their baby was in the hands of police and social services inside the hospital.
Annie Finally Returned to Parents
No doubt exhausted and emotionally distraught, Jodi and Scott attended a shelter care hearing with a judicial officer the following morning.
After hearing the evidence, the officer immediately returned custody of Annie to her parents.
Parent Rights Being Eroded
The moral of this story is that government and hospital workers will lie about the health of your child and quickly violate your Constitutional Rights in order to to force medical treatment upon your children without your consent.
Jodi and Scott Ferris have bravely decided to take their case to court in order to put an end to this madness so no other parents ever have to endure the ordeal they suffered at Hershey Medical Center after the birth of Annie.
If this case moves you as it has me, please consider donating to the Homeschool Freedom Fund which will assist the Homeschool Legal Defense Association with the funds necessary to support Jodi and Scott's case in court.
No social worker should be able to play God with someone else's baby and get off on her own power making up "rules" and "laws" as she goes for her own convenience and personal satisfaction.
There is no doubt that this social worker's intentions were entirely personal; she was aiming to teach these homeschooling, homebirthing parents a lesson they would never forget.
It's high time a court of law draws a line in the sand once and for all to establish that parents and not the government have the ultimate right to determine both medical and educational decisions for their children.
There is no such thing as "your government family" as Janet Napolitano, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security is so creepily fond of saying.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Source: Newborn Seized in Hospital by Police, Social Worker
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Comments (666)
Alejandra Martinez
It honestly sounds like the Hospital made a mistake and then tried to cover it up with lies on the mother.
Janet Houser
I want to run to donate money towards this but when I hit the link and brought my bank card out it is a Homeschool link and 2. There has to be something more to the story. Cops and SS just do not come in and take newborns away. There is another reason that is not being disclosed. So if you want to fill in the gaps then I might donate to the cause but there is something that is wrong with this story.
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
The Homeschool Legal Defense fund is who is defending this couple. And yes, this is happening all over the country. Wake up.
You belive soo? My name is jacob and my wife and I had are newborn son taken the same way. Are son was born 11.02.14 by natural birth, my wife was given laxatives after birth, then when she questioned the squirts she was assured that it's normal, then she was refused ANY pain medication. We learned this through trial which was set up. My wife and I were in Astoria, Oregon for two hours awaiting bus to Vancouver, Washington, but child came, once in hospital, I ( husband of three years and father) from delivery room, then they tryed to remove me from hospitals grounds, hospital lied to cps about pot in kid, but even though it came out in court he was clean we still lost. Given we lost some of are luggage because of child coming early and lost are I.d. we were left homeless for three months awaiting trial and ticketed over $40,000. By police for camping during this time, cps testimony was they offered us frist month rent,deposit, and last months rent, not to mention motel ( which they wouldn't ever give us)! They testified all kinds of help, but we were even refused foodstamps, wic,everything untill after trial then my wife and I get 183 dollars combined and got are frist wic check last week! We don't live in this city, but because are son was born in Oregon he automatically became a resident! Were going to have are right terminated because we cannot afford to transport back and forth for all the court ordered classes or any visits! We lost everything over this and been left homeless over being forced to stay in a area we don't live, and ticketed out the……
I have all documents proving this and beg someone please help us retain a attorney!? This is real and all I ask is for a attorney, don't need money, NEED JUSTICE! My email is email@example.com
blessings to all
This sort of thing happened to me too. I was forced to sign papers releasing authority to hospital to transport my 9 lb perfectly healthy Baby boy for Hiv medical attention 24 hours after he was born. I begged them to retest I cried and begged them and insisted they had the wrong baby's files..my son nor i was never exposed to hiv. They basicly ripped him from me and cast blane for giving my son aids. With out my husband present and in the middle of the night. they said they would have me arrested and state would take him from me if I didn't release him to them for treatment. They took my son away from me and sent him by life flight to a nicu 2 hours away. They drugged him with 2 doses of harsh hiv meds and had him loaded with IVs in his pour little hands. I could not hold him or comfort him. I was made to feel i had done something wrong and i screamed and pleaded before the new shift doc retested and found they made a mistake of course no one will admit it was a mistake. They said it's unclear what happebed. But . 13 hours of horrible horrible pain my son and i was foreced to endure not to mention my 12 hour birth and almost death sue to hospital tech error. My husband hado no idea what was going on. I was released from hospital at 1am with out my son and told I could drive to him. Bleeding and weak my self. I couldn't breast feed or anything. It's hard to find lawyers that will sue a hospital for this. No one knows if those terrible mess will harm him down the road. I know the trauma I went threw will haunt me forever. I do not and will nor let anyone near my child now.
Stories like this really upset me! Something similar almost happened again! Please consider watching this. If we don't fully understand our rights this will never end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp-48d_jSb4
Btw, the link I gave above is to Michael Badnarik's – Constitution Class. It's an awesome and simple to understand course and very eye opening as well as empowering. It's free of course and on Youube,obviously.
What are the advocacy groups and individuals who can be contacted by parents for assistance if this sort of nightmare happens to them?
I just heard about a pair of twins (newborn) taken from their mother right after the midwife drove the mom, twins and primary school age sister to the hospital for a check up after a relatively uncomplicated home birth. The older sister had a rash that the mother didn't want to treat with some prescription application and that was enough for Social Services (hah) to take ALL the children away from the mom. I want to know if this was resolved. It's absolutely barbaric.
I tend to believe this story. It's how American institutions of just about every type behave these days. Arrogant, callous, only looking to cover their legal behinds, and totally contemptuous of our rights. I hate them! I wish more people were upfront and just expressed their righteous anger at these kind of evildoers, because that is what they are — evildoers!
This is clearly a case of control run rampant.
The state needs to understand that this child belongs to the PARENTS. We have RIGHTS & we have the right to do what we feel is best for our children.
Giving brand new infants vaccines is WRONG, on so many fronts.
1. They are going home with their loving PARENTS, as MOST brand new babes do. They are not hitting the streets to start their lives in the sex trade, nor will become drug addicts.
2. There is a TEST to determine if the parents are Hep B positive. Even THEN the vaccine is useless to a brand new infant.
3. This vaccine has EFFECTIVELY eliminated ANY possibility for parents to ever be able to say "My child was normal until such & such vaccine.." Therefore if their child is autistic, they will be told their child was BORN THAT WAY.
4. This vaccine has INCREASED infant mortality statistics in hospitals.
5. The numbers of infants developing REFLUX DISEASE in the first few weeks of life has also increased. It is not normal for brand new infants to have reflux disease. It was almost unheard of 30 years ago when my children were born.
6. This vaccine WILL cause seizure disorders. TWO girls in my daughters middle school class developed seizures from Hep B vaccine.
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Thank GOD they took the kid from these anti vaccine wacko nut jobs.
STFU troll. Vaccines are dangerous for those of us with mitochondrial disorder. Can you prove that you or your kids don't have it? You could be the next statistic.
Yeah wacko until your child comes down with autism after vaccines.. try that one on for size eh?
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This story sounds like there are facts missing and if I had to guess I would say that mother and baby were born with some illegal substance in their body and this is being left out of the story. It just reminds me of when my adopted daughter was born. It makes hospital staff act kinds crazy and is an automatic social worker referral.
WOW! How ignorant are you? Due to the fact this family was harassed and humiliated by government and hospital workers, you would assume drugs were the root of this evil. You should be ashamed of yourself, you showcasing this judgmental point of view is just making it crystal clear as to why happenings like this are occurring more frequently! People like you are making it harder for us who stand up for our values and beliefs to achieve our desired outcomes!!
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Another note, when you are admitted to the hospital you sign a consent to treatment. That means the hospital can do any treatment they want or feel is needed because you already consented to it. A recent lawsuit here in KY a man went in for a circumcision (elderly man) and woke up with the tip of his penis removed. The doctor stated it appeared to be cancerous so they removed it. The man argued you could have woken me up, informed my of it, and let me make my own decision. The man lost the lawsuit because he had signed a "consent to treatment".
Em Gee
The way to get around this is to have a notorized set of care that you DON'T approve filed with the hospital and a medical power of attorney (my husband is mine). That way, if you're unconscious, and they do anything on your list of disapproved treatments, you can sue if they don't consult your power of attorney.
Same thing happened to me. I questioned the need for a vaccine on my newborn and next thing I knew they had her in the nursery and refused to release her to me. The hospitals are all about the money. More procedures and immunizations=more money.
Doctor at the 12 week check up same thing. I asked if all the shots were necessary and I was told "yes". After they were given and I got home I discovered two of them were not necessary, only recommended. The doctor's office lied to me and placed my child at risk so they could make more money.
How long did they keep her? What was the outcome?
If people don't understand how wrong this they must be very ignorant. This is unnecessary government interfering at it worst! Omg… If you can't decide weather you wan't to give birth at home or what vaccinations you think your child should have or not, when the scary future we've all been talking about is here. It's not the future anymore. It's the present. It's scary! I want to be able to choose what kind of birth I feel will be best for me. I want to choose what vaccinations, if any, my child should have and I want to choose if they are being home schooled or not. As long as the child is not harmed I don't see a problem with parents raising their child as they want!
When did this happen? I just had my baby there three months ago and refused not only the hep b vac but also the eye goop, vitamin k, and bathing my baby. They never batted an eye at my request, they said ok to everything I wanted! They were also the only hospital in the area that agreed to let me VBAC all natural, I'm shocked this happened!!
Please note that it is unlawful in the commonwealth of PA to represent yourself as a "social worker" if you do not have a minimum of a bachelor's degree from a CSWE school of social work. To obtain a job in child welfare in PA you can have any degree or 12 credits in a human/social service–you do not have to be a "social worker." It is important not to assume that anyone working in a social service is a "social worker." Social work is a legally protected title and profession, just like nursing.
Social workers who have violated the Code of Ethics can be reported to the PA chapter of the NASW.
This is easily one of the scariest things I've ever read now imagine that your fighting with hospital personnel and the father of your child (simply wanting to take any side against you, regardless if it's in your child's best interest ~ you're NOT together) agrees with them to deliver a 2-1 vote loss (when did hospitals become the 3rd voter in your child's life?) and have to watch them proceed with tests on your baby that you've researched and are against, while said father (who has researched NOTHING and doesn't even want the kid) looks on, pleased with his "victory" over the mother of his "accident". Too many hospitals drool over the possibility of getting support for their sometimes ridiculous "necessities" by taking advantage of one parent over another, who aren't together and simply want to disagree. As the mother in the story, I've since been threatened by my daughter's father that if I disagree with anything her doctor's say (she's now 3 1/2) HE will call CPS and have my custody taken away?!
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As a nurse familiar in this area, this was going on long before Obama was elected.
Ya, that would be the last day on earth for that social worker if this was my baby. They would pay the ultimate price for violating my parental rights and the rights of my child.
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http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2012/201212100.asp The case will now go to trial. Wish I lived close enough to get called for THAT jury.
tony centore
fuck the social services,I would kill them all and the staff of the hospital too.
Angela Le via Facebook
Terrifying! A parent's nightmare!
Lisa DesJardins via Facebook
My prayers go out to the Ferris family. Continuing to pray for them.
Andrea Shaw
Wow. So sad.
Natural Nutrition Nurse via Facebook
This case should have been dismissed. It is horrible that this family if having to go through this unwarranted expense and stress. I miss freedom and choose peaceful noncompliance with this farce of a system.
Kirstian Lewis via Facebook
That is awesome! I started supporting HSLDA since this case started. they are truly standing by parents rights to make informed decisions for their children's health.
Edward N Sherrie Halpain via Facebook
Thrilled the case is moving forward!! Absolutely outrageous what happened to them and completely unacceptable!!
Laura Matula via Facebook
i've read of this story on HSLDA's facebook posts. thanks for helping to spread the word. people need to know the risks and how to help support parents' rights.
Molly Asmus via Facebook
Lora beat me to it!
Lora Stoeckl via Facebook
All the more reason to have your babies at home if at all possible!
This has nothing to do with the government. This story has been played out over and over again. It's about people who have prejudice against anyone who chooses actions against the norm. That's it. I experienced similar situations when I chose a homebirth, and when I questioned vaccines. And yes, this was before Obama, ya'll.
As a social worker in the medical field…I must say in no way does this story ring true for the majority of parents. Patients always have a right to refuse any kind of vaccine. (It gets stickier if a minor needs some kind of treatment for a disease and the parents deny they child treatment) And not denying horrible workers have done it, but legally a social worker can not just arbitrarily conduct an investigation and steal children away. The parents are right to file suit and I hope more people are educated about their rights as citizens and parents because of this. That said, this incident has nothing to do with democrats, republicans, obamacare, etc. The hospital staff screwed up; no big conspiracy. It also appears we may be missing some crucial facts from this story.
Know your rights! You can always refuse to speak with investigating social workers. They will have to investigate, but you do have the right to have an attorney and you ALWAYS have a right to know what they are investigating.
I pray the hospital staff admits their mistake and this family is able to find some peace and healing.
Travis Steal via Facebook
That is why we had or last child at home
Travis Steal via Facebook
That is why we had or last child at home
Diane E Lehmann via Facebook
This is appalling!
Rafael Aspiazu via Facebook
And this happens in the USA? omg!
Austin N Leah Block via Facebook
Um yeah i had the same thing happen to me with our twins. But thank God the social worker came and told us that the Dr. had no right to take our children and that the magistrate would not approve of taking our babies. I had to sign a bunch of stuff saying i would be held responsible for their death if i refused all the shots, and we were the FIRST family to EVER refuse vaccines….It was a nightmare but not nearly as horrible as what Jodi and Scott suffered through.
Cortney Isenhour Long via Facebook
This is ludicrous!
Gina Zanetti via Facebook
So sad and unfortunate….my prayers and thoughts are with you…
Ginnie Lynn via Facebook
That is terrifying. My heart breaks for that family.
Annette A. Penney via Facebook
This is unfucken believable. Excuse my strong language – this calls for strong language.
Lora Newell via Facebook
Nichole Lynch Wherry via Facebook
Wow. Talk about government control. This is downright scary.
Heather Anne via Facebook
Molly Frodge Stricklen via Facebook
Great news!!! So glad to hear this.
Sandra Fraser Maurer via Facebook
Alexander Lovelady via Facebook
I remember this! An unbelievable horror, My prayers go to the family. Hope they win the case
Ellen Hundt via Facebook
Christina LaReau- Martin via Facebook
Just because she QUESTIOnED it?!?
Christina LaReau- Martin via Facebook
That's ridiculous and disgusting
Paul Manderson via Facebook
You need to talk to Phillip Day.
Leesy Lees via Facebook
Denise Tomooka Mantei via Facebook
I still don't understand the need for the vaccine if the mother has tested negative for it. Prayers for Scott and Jodi Ferris.
Shirley Baker via Facebook
When children are taken from parents children's service gets a large ck. when placed in a home another lg gov ck. you need a good Attorney. All inf is alledged
Charlene Connell via Facebook
Am so pleased that the judge was wise enough to realize this was NOT OK of the hospital and the PD and I hope they win big so that other hospitals become afraid to deny parental rights except with real probable cause and only under legal means!
Arnold Sara Ann Gross via Facebook
Praying hard for all parents of children
Kim McKay via Facebook
Praying for this family to win this case. It is frightening to think that this can happen in our "civilized" country.
Erin Farley Pfeil via Facebook
Home birth on the rise! never letting other people who are more "educated" dictate to me or my child!
Raina Wilson via Facebook
I had to have it put on my granddaughter's chart, No chicken pox vaccine. Her big sister had a bad reaction to it and I didn't want her to have to go thru the same thing. My daughter wasn't going to tell the Dr anything because a Dr told her that drug allergies aren't passed down. My husband's siblings all have reactions to codeine, but that can't be. (Rolling eyes ) my youngest son didn't have the chicken pox vaccine because I told them he already had them. Lol. Assad far as I know he did, he has a scar on his nose and his sister and brother had them when I was pregnant with him.
Good luck, and kick some booty in court!
Nancy Churchill Bengtson via Facebook
It scares me!
Lisa Langebek via Facebook
Those hospital personnel should all rot in prison. They are disgusting.
Sally Mallory via Facebook
Goodness! Where's the backbone in this baby's parents?? You stand up to whoever, whenever, where ever. Na-uh!! Nobody, nobody steps all over my rights! No social worker, nor hospital staff. People! Stop being doormats! Ugh!!
Sally Mallory via Facebook
Goodness! Where's the backbone in this baby's parents?? You stand up to whoever, whenever, where ever. Na-uh!! Nobody, nobody steps all over my rights! No social worker, nor hospital staff. People! Stop being doormats! Ugh!!
Natalie Cairncross via Facebook
I still can't get over this. It's terrifying to think of
Jennifer Lynn Magnone via Facebook
That's terrifying, I hope they win!
Caroline Parra via Facebook
How terrible!!!
Jennifer Bingham Western via Facebook
* the nurses I know weren't my nurses, and my nurses didn't know I knew them.
Jennifer Bingham Western via Facebook
Wow that would be so hard, I can't even imagine. I'm so grateful I know the hospital I go to would never do this. They were SO sweet to me while I refused everything (and I personally know 2 nurses there). Not all hospitals are like this!! My nurse even dismissed the baby nurse who was being a tiny bit pushy to get my baby for tests when I was having some nice bonding/skin to skin time.
Jessica Lara via Facebook
This is somewhat similar toy story and I am so happy to see it moving forward.
Holly Anne Jorgensen via Facebook
That's SUCH great news! So often it seems the "justice" system does nothing for these types of scenarios! Always defending the stays quo and sheople! I'm so glad to hear this!
Susan Walker Taylor via Facebook
This is overwhelmingly awful.
Lacey Gray via Facebook
They better win! The hospital and social worker committed fraud. They should be in bug trouble in criminal courts as well!
Julie Gerasimenko via Facebook
This is a bizarre story! This is why I am Suuuper respectful when refusing treatment of any kind. But this should still never happen to anyone!
Betsy Mays via Facebook
this is terrifying.
Blair Massey via Facebook
I hope she wins.
Melissa Raye Patterson via Facebook
Praying for them!!
Stefanie Gordon via Facebook
I hope the parents win and receive a huge compensation! Poor child! I can't imagine.
Blanca Villanueva Perez via Facebook
Something fishy going on w/that judge…the truth does not stay quiet for long. ;
Nichola Lake Gilbertson via Facebook
So wrong
Chris Cherep Armshaw via Facebook
Oh…. I understand! Thank goodness. Less afraid!
Kristy Rivera via Facebook
What a horrible story. I am so glad Annie is home with her parents. My heart goes out to them. I wouldn't wish that nightmare on my worst enemy.
Vanessa Russo via Facebook
WOW! I can't believe it…well, yes I can. It's so scary and stories like this have made my husband and I scared to have another child. I can't imagine what they had to go through. It's a very scary world we live in.
Tim-Micki Schmidt via Facebook
I had to re-read your post, at first glance, I thought that the case was proceeding against the parents. There have been several of these cases in the last couple of years, I hope this one sends a big message for parental rights.
Tim-Micki Schmidt via Facebook
I had to re-read your post, at first glance, I thought that the case was proceeding against the parents. There have been several of these cases in the last couple of years, I hope this one sends a big message for parental rights.
Kim Kuulei Birnie via Facebook
outrageous acts! glad Baby Annie is home where she belongs
Mellisa Balaban via Facebook
This is something for Dr. Rebecca Carley and Dr.Tenpenny… This is so scary!
Amina Sadr via Facebook
There must be a new law that brings to responsibility the social workers and anyone ever involved in separating children, especially newborns, from their families. To serious, responsibility, that is. So that they think ten times, and worry about their jobs and lives a lot, before doing anything like that.
Cassie Banks Jett via Facebook
This absolutely ridiculous! These are OUR children, NOT Theirs!
Ce Adams via Facebook
I was really concerned about this when I had to have a c- section for safety reasons with my third son. I couldn't get us out of there fast enough. He was slightly jaundiced as all my kids have been – but it was a huge ordeal with the hospital pedis who insisted I supplement him with formula and had him under the uv light. They must have asked 20 times when my follow up appointment with our pediatrition was ( we use a DO. Not a pedi) and asked repeatedly when we would vaccinated. Thank God my sons jaundice improved enough to get us out of there before those hospital docs could do any damage. By the way- my son who was two weeks early and a c-section baby is now a healthy unvaccinated 6 month old who is wearing 12-18 month old size clothes! And our DO said "take him home and nurse him- he is fine"!
Ce Adams via Facebook
I was really concerned about this when I had to have a c- section for safety reasons with my third son. I couldn't get us out of there fast enough. He was slightly jaundiced as all my kids have been – but it was a huge ordeal with the hospital pedis who insisted I supplement him with formula and had him under the uv light. They must have asked 20 times when my follow up appointment with our pediatrition was ( we use a DO. Not a pedi) and asked repeatedly when we would vaccinated. Thank God my sons jaundice improved enough to get us out of there before those hospital docs could do any damage. By the way- my son who was two weeks early and a c-section baby is now a healthy unvaccinated 6 month old who is wearing 12-18 month old size clothes! And our DO said "take him home and nurse him- he is fine"!
Pamela Holt via Facebook
27 years ago my daughter was taken to the hosp after a successful home birth because the midwife thought she was breathing too fast and she didn't have a full oxygen tank.. she was admitted to neonatal icu because she was a HOME birth no other reason…. apgar score of 8 …the hosp was close enough that I could go & breast feed every 3-4 hours…. 7 days later I had to fight the hosp to get her to come home they wanted to keep her for observation I said I will observe her at home, get the release NOW or I will just take her home. I can see that today I probably would have been put in jail for that attitude. Oh the Dr. never did determine why she was breathing fast. Even today she will talk your ear off LOL
Kimberley Moore via Facebook
(and we would NEVER vaccinate a baby without permission at my hospital, that's considered assault and battery and quite punishable! We can't even get a hold of the vaccine without a doctor's order since it is all electronic medical records here) I'm not saying it couldn't happen or hasn't but people taking your baby to vaccinate against your will isn't happening everywhere, thank goodness. In my hospital, it creates a TON of work for us to do and it's easier for us NOT to vaccinate.
Justine Hinderliter via Facebook
Another example of the dismal medicalization of birth in the US and another reason to go for a homebirth! Yay midwives!!
Kristen Simonds Driscoll via Facebook
Sooo scary!! I cant imagine
Laura Blair via Facebook
when i had my 2nd, a failed homebirth, i was accused of being on drugs, not being married to my husband, forced to have an unnecessary c-section, given antidepressants without my knowledge, accused of being on drugs again because the antidepressants they gave me were in my son's urine, told that if i didn't give him the hepB he would never be allowed in school, among a myriad of other horrible things. i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Kimberley Moore via Facebook
This is so crazy. I work for a hospital, in an L&D unit, and adopted a baby from our floor. I refused her HEP B vaccine and had absolutely NO issues because of it. In fact, only one pediatrician that I work with even writes orders for us to give them before the babies go home. If any other pediatrician is on call the babies don't get them. The parents are totally allowed to refuse it, It's not a problem, I don't get it. I don't get this not ONE BIT.
Savannah Pattan via Facebook
Please Lord let them win BIG! I'm not for lawsuits at all but this is so far out of line. It should be the parents decision on vaccines & nobody else should have a say in it. My heart breaks for all this family has gone through & it terrifies me what else may come if the lose.
Sara James via Facebook
After my first child and a horrid learning/eye opening experience, I never left my #2 and #3 alone- my husband or I was with them constantly for the 24hrs spent in the hospital. The nurses even understood my POV about the hep B- you know, lots of newborns having sex these days… Hope they win big!!!!
Deborah De Block via Facebook
This is terrible… I wonder if I wasn't harassed because I said I was going to take their info and think about it… And I did get my daughter's first set but then stopped because of older wiser mentors and my baby had colic after that.
Allison Henson via Facebook
Elizabeth Lockhart Sept via Facebook
This frightens me so much! 'Dont question, or we'll ruin your life!'
Mickelle Costantino Shea via Facebook
PS… I refused the Hepatitis B vax for my first daughter and she received it anyway! (I truly believe it was an accident… you should have seen that scared little nurse who came in to tell me about the mistake! Still, I've always wondered what our outcome would have been if we'd taken them to court.)
Mike Tara McMillan via Facebook
did the drs ever vaccinate the baby when they took it away?
Tera Smith via Facebook
Should have had a homebirth
Mickelle Costantino Shea via Facebook
win, baby, win! And I hope it's a BIG one! Give that Annie her whole college tuition, books, and living expenses!
Rachel Guida via Facebook
I can't believe this horror story. I have an 18 year old and now a 9 month old. Didn't want anymore for many reasons one being reading horror stories like these. When I got pregnant I was so scared. I ended up with a holistic midwife and hostpital not infringing at all with my requests. My baby didn't leave my side and to this day thank God no problems with not wanting to vaccinate. I gave birth in Wayne memorial in pa and don't understand why In some places these things happen but I am told I can do what I want it's my kid.
Michelle Raisbeck via Facebook
Audrey Hussey via Facebook
Many times, unless you have posession of your newborn at ALL times, they say they will respect your wishes, then they vax anyway, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it. Happens all the time, they basically say OOPS, that nurse didn't know.
Jessica Healey via Facebook
Oh my goodness…what a nightmare! I can't imagine.
thehealthyhomeeconomist via Facebook
Don't miss the good news here though. The judge has denied the motions to dismiss the case and the Ferris' lawsuit is moving forward!!
Holly Delahaye via Facebook
I will be praying for the family and for this case. This case could prove to be monumental in many ways…
Thea Steggall via Facebook
I hope everything works on their favor. I worry about this. I'm having a baby in the spring and we won't vax. They bullied us into vaccinating our first baby, back then I was young and naive and didn't know much about the ramifications.
Nancie C. Mathis via Facebook
Wrong, so wrong. I requested no vax after birth while at the hospital and they complied. What is the state getting out of this? I have to think the state is only going forward to save face because they failed to split up a family. I tell people all the time that our inherent rights to parent our children are not as solid as we think.
Chris Cherep Armshaw via Facebook
Makes me afraid…
Andree Lira via Facebook
Dear Lord, plz interfere for this family NOW!
Tijana OCeallaigh via Facebook
Good news – I hope the win big! That should deter any other power mad social workers from making the same mistake!
Melissa Hughes via Facebook
Geez, this really disturbs me, on so many levels.
Becki Pembleton via Facebook
You people are all crazy. You believe everything that anyone writes. Sarah the healthy home economist has no medical degree, no medical credentials. She got all her information second, or third, hand. She put her own spin on it. Who knows what else was said or done? Get a grip! Not everything is as it seems! You must carefully evaluate what you read and be sure you are getting ALL the info before jumping to untenable conclusions. You don't know anything about these people; you don't even know if this story is true. Hershey Medical Center is a well respected institution; every hospital has problems, but if there are problems here, they seem to fall on the social worker and one or two employees. IF the story is true. I worked in healthcare for 30 years; this sounds like a fairy tale to me.
Yup! Sounds familiar! In 2002, (WAY before Obama people) I had a home birth. It went very well but I didn't listen about pausing on the final push and got a little tear. So we had to go to the hospital JUST to get stitched up a little for my small tear. They were beyond LIVID. About what- I don't know. I could tell just furious that I had done great and birthed a perfect baby girl without their help whatsoever and was feeling great other than my small tear. They were doing EVERYTHING in their power to try to keep us there.
We just walked out after I got my stitches and they were even calling the police, saying my blood pressure was too low. Duh!! I had JUST had a baby!
We left before the P got there but the staff did call social services and the next morning they showed up at my home ready to take the baby away "if necassary". The hospital staff had made up a huge story in order to have enough garbage to even get SS to come. After spending ten minutes at my home with my family glaring at her the social worker felt like a tricked idiot, apologized and left. Make no mistake that this is exactly how threatened hospital staff does things. I will hate them forever for calling social services on me in the first twelve hours that I was ever a mother! They were catty, petty, hateful threatened and pitiful little high school girls and they're all often the same. Nursing often creates a situation where it's just a bunch of women all together who start getting their b*tchy pack mentality and will gang up on mothers, especially as they did at McKee hospital in Loveland CO
Anyone reading this that has the same problem as you did with the tear should go to a clinic/obgyn instead of the hospital. You could just tell them that you had a home birth to
"save money" and don't need to go to the hospital for a few stitches. Why couldn't the midwife do the stitches? I would have never opened my door for the SS people. What are they going to do? Get a search warrant to come in?
this story is soo sad! when I had my son 2 years ago I was unpleasantly greeted by a doctor who started out his conversation with me with this question "so do you WANT to kill your baby"? I had a rough birthing experience, I had issues with high blood pressure towards the end of my pregnancy and was sad I couldn't follow my natural birthing plan because of this serious blood pressure problem I'm a nurse, but not the typical kind, I am a true believer in doing things naturally, working with our bodies and not against them. Even before i became pregnant i had already done extensive research regarding vaccines. What I learned from just this topic alone has taught me a lot about out healthcare system, and its scary!!! So naturally I already had plans to not vaccinate or do the vit k shot. So after I was asked that ridiculous question by that doctor/person whom Ive never met in my life, I simply stated that Ive done the research and find no conclusive reasons as to why my newborn baby would need those shots. The doc told me that research could kill my son. I said i'd send him a christmas card with a picture of my healthy unvaccinated son just so he could see what the outcome of my educated decision is year after year! Not that I am totally against modern medicine, I did thank the doctor for assessing my son, making sure he was okay(kill em with kindness), but some things you've just got to get smart about! I would of lost it if some stranger came in and told me we're taking your child from you because darnit we dont like informed decision makers at this hospital!!! My son is two and is wonderfully healthy, no vaccine, never had an antibiotic and is rarely sick, and when he is sick it never lasts long, treat with things my grandma used, she's in her 80's and still going strong. Parents be cautious if you do decide to have a hospital delivery, I'm a nurse and have seen first hand how task oriented some people are at their job (taking care or your newborn baby) they will see your baby needs heb b and vit k shots on their computers and before asking for your consent will give those shots to your defenseless little one. If it wasn't for my sister they would of given them to my son, had the vials and needles ready not 5 minutes after he was born, crazy crazy crazy! Get informed, pray constantly, trust in the Lord, and fight the good fight!
For 20 years, I was married to a litigation attorney, and I worked my way through college and part of graduate school in various law firms in Philadelphia. I can't TELL you the number of medical malpractice suits there were against Hershey Medical Center — it is a horrible hospital, and their level of professionalism is non-existent. I don't think this was a case of anti-homeschooling, or home-delivery so much as it was a typical slice of life at Hershey Medical — no one should go to this hospital EVER for anything. I hope this little girl is well and thriving, and that her parents DO sue the living daylights out of the hospital. Their treatment was horrifying.
I had 2 life saving surgeries at Hershey Medical Center in the last 11/2 years and they did wonderful. I had an excellent doctor who was great. It depends on what doctor you have. I have been in the emergency dept. and they suck and most of there doctors are mean and ignorant.
This story sickens me. Personally, I am all for vaccinations, even the Hep B shot for a newborn. Hospitals expose anyone inside them to all sorts of stuff (antibiotic resistant staph anyone?). HOWEVER, what they did was not just illegal (or should be at least), but also violates the hippocratic oath.
OMG this is a crime
To Rebecca and anyone else worried about Obama's health reform. I currently live in the UK and grew up in Sweden, both of these countries have a free or heavily subsidised healthcare system, more in the direction of what Obama is suggesting, and I have not a doubt in my mind, that while no system is perfect, in both the UK and Sweden that social worker and the hospital staff responsible would be struck off, if not convicted in court.
I am absolutely disgusted to read this.. unbelievable….
It isn't the same here in the US then. I admit that I'm not crazy about subsidized healthcare. The problem isn't subsidized health care in itself but the control that we would be giving the government because of it. Government has no place in health care except in matters of fraud or some other such circumstance; even in such a situation it is NOT a federal issue. Once government played a part in health care, they slowly worked to play BIGGER parts in health care. Now the government is making decisions FOR us in cases like these when they shouldn't. THAT'S why people like me are worried about Obamacare.
I'm happy that you've never had a problem with health care where you come from, but too many people are blindly believing in a system that has been failing us for several decades. Now we are blindly placing faith in Obamacare. It has already made things worse and it will get far worse still if that man stays in office.
This sounds like a similar story about Ruth, from IL, who was taken away from her parents after a homebirth transfer. This troubles me immensely, beyond describing, as I prepare for my second homebirth. I hope this social worker goes to jail. Ruth's parents' facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/groups/133054353404631/
Mad Mom
This is terrible! Why does a newborn have to have a Hep B shot? Newborns are not engaging in sexual activity as soon as they leave the hospital. Newborns, at least most of them, will not be having a blood transfusion. Newborns don't engage in drug activities, re-using needles and syringes. If the worry is possible transmission between mother and child during labor, shouldn't mother's be tested DURING pregnancy like it is done with Group B Strep? Doesn't make sense, or does it? Could be that plan on ways to depopulate the earth. Bill Gates admitted two years ago that vaccines will help lower the world population. People will say that he meant by making sure fewer babies are born, not the killing off of billions of people. But still, why mention vaccines will help? Is it a way to sterilize the population? Maybe it goes hand in hand with the pushing of GMO foods, that it can feed the world. Research.
Doesn't your research shock you Mad Mom, I can not believe sooo many people are being ignorant about truths that are literally right in front of them. ted.com has a presentation with Melinda Gates (Bill Gate's wife) and she discusses the "desparate" need for birth control and planned parenthood practices to be more available and enacted in third world countries, it has a strange feel about it, as if they really are trying to depopulate the world, along with GMO foods, vaccines, forced sterilization, etc.
I think it may get to a point where we will have to go back to having our babies at home….we used to do that…I think it's disgusting to have your baby in one of the filthiest places on earth, a hospital. I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years and the only place dirtier is a day care center. I had my first baby in a hospital, then I grew up and had the other three at home, they are all very healthy and vax free.
These has been a recent documentation on cps revealing utter corruption and zero accountibility. It claims that the hundreds of children removed n whim from loving parents to fostercare are for the first time abused sexually,emotionally and physcially while in state care.Cps is nothing more than child trafficking and child profiterring.Every child removed from home is what pays that social worker. They even get bonuses! And there is additional money for fostercare if they can find an excuse to place babies and up on anti depressants or other drugs. They did a documenrty on kids as young as 6 months given 8 different antiphyscotics while in fostrcare. Chrildren experiecing separation difficulties(and what child doesn't who is placed in fostercare?) are suject to drugs for mood disorder.The state makes a very very poor parent.Its time American held cps accountable for all the damage they have done to childrens lives.Its all about money!
Penn State is the same organization that protected Jerry Sandusky . . . Congratulations you pack of perverts.
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I had my daughter @ St.Pete's 19 yrs ago. Sounds way worse now. Wasn't thrilled with them and went to Capital Medical Center for my son 3 1/2 yrs later. Better, but I wish I knew then what I do now about vaccinations, etc.
I was lucky enough to have my first child at Dr.Van Eaton's clinic in Eatonville and not a hospital. Left after 1 1/2 hrs and just a PKU test. Unfortunately, ten years later he was no longer delivering babies ( gee, I wonder why) which why my other two were at the hospitals. My first labor was 40 hrs and the others were 10 and 7 hrs but I
I had that stupid monitor on up through delivery at the hospitals and I had absolutely no risk
factors or complications. Completely unmedicated L&D on all three and no stitches on the last one
No episiotomies just a few surface stitches on the first two. I was got myself released after 4 hrs at St.Pete's but couldn't leave with the baby for 4 more because the Ped was at a basketball game.
As absolutely uncomplicated as you can get, but in today's fascist climate I'd think about ten times before choosing to have a child and I do love my children. That's why I never say a word about my daughter not having any children after 11 yrs of marriage.
This was a reply to Mary Wallace.
this story is just complete rubbish, oh i just had a baby but im going to have to run back to the house to attend to other kids who already being watched? wth , im pretty damn sure any neighbor or friend or def, family wouldnt mind another couple hours of watching kids, oh and then the poor mother gets attacked by all these government officials, blah blah blah , PEOPLE ITS 21ST century the fact that there are people even this f ing stupid to believe in this shit, the mother or people reading this crap, were going to take your baby , fine go ahead , take my baby, then when i turn around and sue your azz because there are 500 documents showing i had a baby there and now i dont and you tok her with out consent blah blah blah, there is 50 million laws protecting people,, STOP BEING STUPID
i hope they took the baby and ate it
not to mention its on a freakin blog
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THE WHOLE REASON this happened is because these people were smart and knew how corrupt our system is when it comes to birthing. They knew the government would attempt to get her to sign a bill of exchange for the child (file for birth certificate/social security and basically legally give ownership to the government as they do with everyone's kid.) They knew the vaccinations and such are harmful to a childs development, sometimes fatal. It's because of the SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT that all this goes down not the hospitals it's because they wanted to have kid at home and not have treatments etc. the social worker felt it her need to take the child long enough to give them the LEARNING disability drugs they disguise as hep b and other shots. not too mention they knew these people wanting to have it home weren't going to sign their child over to the gov. and wanted to keep her a sovereign person. Instead the gov. knew this and played their games to get this child the (shots it needed) LMAO yeah right! leave it to the Federal Death Administration and DNR. I mean FDA, seeing as the DNR places a price on a human life that you aren't told about and when an officer of the law or coroner proves or finds you dead THEY GET ALL THE MONEY NOT YOU that's why you're never told about your FEDERAL STRAWMAN ACCOUNT because the leechy punks in the gov. seats find more money in keeping the young sick and old dying that way they always have a fresh crop and being nobody is told about the 7+ million dollars in their name they are entitled to the gov. gets it when you die. God don't you love being a slave thinking you're free? America the land of SLAVES not free NOBODY HERE has a BIRTH TITLE! period! all Birth Certificates both have different legal meanings look it up you'll be surprised, even more so when you find out we legally own nothing not even ourselves or children as it's all been pledged collateral to float leins and loans for the world bank and make the american fiat currency work. Yeap crooked as hell and corrupt as can be…. WHO'S READY FOR A CHANGE? I know I sure am because I'm sick of the damn crown ruling and running everything and committing more crimes against humanity than anyone in history making hitler look like ghandi
leave it to the CROWN
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Cedar Cat
Personally, I'd much rather put my healthcare in the hands of government, a non-profit entity, whose mission is to preserve the best interests of its citizens. The alternative is what we have now: "private" insurance, with a mind-numbing complexity that produces billions of dollars of profits and executive compensation for the CEOs and bankers running the show.
So, do you really prefer a corporate doctor who only profits when you are sick, mind you, or a government plan that has no middlemen nor profits to divert its resources to.
So far, the profit-driven medical industry has no incentive whatsoever to help us be well. Think about it.
This control of our bodies and our babies is also profit-driven, or "risk management" as per above. What a way to begin a new life. The baby must be traumatized beyond belief.
FIRE THAT SOCIAL WORKER NOW. She obviously has no will to protect people, she just wants to push people through her idea of a system. Here's the truth: there is no situation where procedure is not flexible and where caring, empathetic intuition is not the best guide.
As a NICU nurse in Texas parents can refuse Hep B and Vitamin K. They are not allowed to refuse Erythromycin per state laws because of the risk of blindness. I am curious how the lawsuit plays out because the way things are stated in your article there are many things as a nurse that I would question if it really happened that way or was it the perception of the person you interviewed. We are a very family centered NICU where I have seen doctors agree to things the parent's request that could potentially bring harm to the baby. For the most part, however, we encourage the parents to speak up and have an active roll in their child's care. Every baby does get a social work consult to make sure that the family has resources in place for their baby. As a parent, if my baby were born in an ambulance I would readily accept the 24 hour observation. EMT's are wonderful technicians, but they are not accustomed to delivering babies and there could have been damage during the birth process.
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The People's Chemist
Great reporting! Thank you.
Um, did that new UN treaty pass yet?
Didn't that say somewhere in there that your children can be taken away from you?……
I am so sad for these parents. This country is going downhill fast. I'm only 25 and I have seen it degrade in just my lifetime. The problem is with government. If hospitals did this, they would surely go out of business quick because no one would want to have their baby in a hospital where their kid would get taken away. I don't care if you are Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Constutionalist, paleo-conservative, neo-conservative, socialist, communist, whatever. The government in the USA was founded upon freedom and restricting the powers of government so that things like this wouldn't happen. We are inching closer to a Second American Revolution. The Boston Tea Party was started when the king of England started taxing 15% (I think that was the rate, it could be lower) of the colonists' income. Currently, we are being taxed almost double that and the Americans take it willingly like their taxes actually go to help poor and sick people. NO, taxes go to war and paying INTEREST, not principal, on the debt. Everything else goes to this police state that BOTH the Republicans and Democrats created (please quit falling for the false left/right paradigm). Never before in the course of human history has government ever been on the side of the people they ruled. Government will always become corrupt to the point they start kidnapping your babies and taking your wealth. This is why we need to err on the side of freedom. No one will ever live the lives you think they should. They will never make the decisions you think they should make. Government should not be forcing us into certain behaviors. We need ultimate freedom. That is humanity's desire and destiny. Maybe that's what 2012 will bring……
This is the reason God gave man the AK 47 and a 75 round drum. Any father of a newborn should have one locked, loaded and ready for just this kind of criminal threat to his child.
Suggest consideration of the following:
Step 1. Protest – Luckily the Fourth of July — its long-forgotten purpose being the celebration of the American Revolution and independence from overweening government — is only four days away, providing perfect timing and a holiday when many Americans hang out their American flags. In protest this year, flags should be hung out upside down, which is a long-established distress signal and warning sign of occupied territory – which indeed we have become (occupied by multinational corporation and residents and their special interests who have more rights than American citizens, also thanks to a recent Supreme Court betrayal: Citizens United). Online, websites should go into distress as well, replacing their content with an upside down flag for the day, or, at the minimum displaying one with an explanation of what it symbolizes.
Step 2. Educate – Initiate an educational campaign to make the entire country aware of two things:
1.) ObamaCare is NOT a tax, but rather instead a penalty intended to engineer social change,
2.) under ObamaCare we will all lose our rights to control what medicine goes into our, and our children's bodies (assuming any care remains available at all), and,
3.) ObamaCare is NOT a social healthcare program, but rather instead a government-mandated subsidy to giant corporate insurance companies. Once the Occupy Wall Street / 99% Movement realizes this, we have the potential to get millions of new allies.
Step 3. Redirect – Chief Justice Robert's bizarre majority opinion cuts Romney off at the knees. While the ruling has potential to fuel a backlash that could help Republicans retake the House and Senate, so long as Romney is the GOP's candidate, retaking the White House remains improbable, and thus, consequently, so does overturning ObamaCare. The man who authored ObamaCare, and who continues to defend the concept of an individual mandate at the state level, is NOT a credible messenger for leading the party that is claiming as their number one goal the overturning of ObamaCare.
Fortunately, there remains one other GOP candidate in the race. We must build coalitions (Santorum, Gingrich, Evangelicals, Catholics, Tea Party groups, libertarian groups, and so forth), convincing people to hold their noses if necessary, in order to get the GOP to unite behind Ron Paul as the GOP nominee. He is now the ONLY candidate who has the necessary, impeccable credentials when it comes to defending the Constitution and opposing ObamaCare.
Step 4. Clean House – Finally, we must make it clear that there is a price to be paid for backing the wrong horse. Any Republican in the Senate who supported Robert's confirmation needs to be targeted for replacement – and, yes, this recognizes that includes most of them. It is time to remove from office those who are irresponsible and unreliable—most especially those who voted for ObamaCare, and, yes, there were Republicans who supported ObamaCare and/or other recent expansions of central government power. Find out who they were and support their opponents, be they libertarians, independents, or even Democrats (if they oppose ObamaCare)–the point is to send a message.
Pass this on! Turn off the television, the mainstream media is only lying to you anyway, and start knocking on your neighbors doors. We have a country to take back.
Jay Stang
It is so important now that dad never ever leaves the baby's side. With both of my sons, I kept an eagle eye on them. The only time that baby left my sight was for circumcision. This situation is where dad has to be there and be vigilant. Do whatever you have to do, Dad, but please do not leave that baby. Social workers are bullies, and a man looking them straight in the eye and telling them "no" can work wonders.
If you have other children at home, arrange for someone to watch them.
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Probably the most important take away from this is that we have to start changing the system. Voting for liberty minded candidates at every level of government, from local to state to federal, is more important now than ever. They are the only ones who kick the can down the field and fight the massive bureaucracy that has crept up on us because of apathy. Also, more and more of us are going to have to work for public office, while never betraying our principles.
Fight for liberty, if only to never experience what this couple did.
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If you have a marriage license you are only the babysitter for the state's children.
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something sounds fishy with this story!!!
I understand that pressure. I just had our 3rd baby and they injected him with the vit k shot before asking for consent and then looked at me cock-eyed when I asked for the waiver for hep b shot. I don't think he'll be playing with needles and having sex anytime soon so heb b in the first moments of life are not medically necessary. When i asked to be discharged, the hospital staff couldnt make up their mind if my son was sick or not abd i was told i HAD to dtay for observation. Then the pediatrician told me they "almost" gave him the hep b, but he suddenly reremembered that i had asked about NOT giving it, and came in my room to question me why, and said there easnt a waiver signed. But there was, and it was the first page in his chart, and NOBODY PAID ATTENTION. I'll never know if he was actually given it, but I do knitwear I did not give consent, and I know how big of a bully hospitals are.
The Government here in America can and will do "Legal Kidnapping"and if you question it you are put in the same category as the people in every other country out there that questions the Government of their homeland.What a crock….
Yeah, Cynthia McKinney (former congresswoman from Georgia) started standing up for parents in her state that were going through this similar situation. CPS and DCFS were kidnapping kids and she started uncovering what they were doing. Well, look at her now. She's still doing great work but she is no longer in a governmental position to fight for the people.
Viviana Beau
It's unacceptable that thisbiased social worker had custody of that baby and consented to that vaccine. If a mum has no prenatal records documenting HepB neg status, then the protocol per the CDC guidlelines is to give the vaccine within the first week of life if the baby is close to term. However this can be avoided by obtaining mum's HepB status, and if mum is Hepb Ag negative, than the vaccine can be waived.
This looks like a bunch of miscommunication and bias.
It's very interesting to me that people, especially the author of this story, and subsequent commentors, didn't stop and think what was really being reported.
Was it really a "government hospital"? No.
Did they end up going to the ER because of unforeseen complications with the home birth? Yes (But it was also left out that it was the emergency room now, wasn't it?)
Have you ever been to an emergency room?
Do you think it's fair to skip over all the other seriously injured people in the emergency room, who are there for reasons NOT within their control? I sure as hell don't think that's fair. This family made a choice. That's their right. We all agree on that, right?
But, if you were in the ER that night with your child who happened to be hit by a car, and they had to delay your child's treatment because of a CHOICE these people made to not give birth in a hospital (NOT AN EMERGENCY ROOM), you wouldn't be singing this song and dance about Obamacare, government, etc. now would you? You see, the bigger picture here is that the choices we make, especially when it comes to birthing options, always come with a risk, even in a hospital or at home, there's always a risk. But, the choice you make also affects many other people, when you decide to take a bigger risk and forego the usual medical treatment for child birth. That's a CHOICE youre making, which should imply that you are also foregoing some of your rights, with regard to treatment if something were to go wrong, which, in this case it did.
Now, with all that being said, I still do not agree that these people (hospital employees) handled this the best way possible (Obviously). But, based on the lack of facts and the omission of other important facts in this story, I think it's safe to assume there's much more to this story than we are being told. I highly doubt the things we are reading went down as it has been laid out here. But, none of us will ever know for sure. What we do know is that this wasn't a "government hospital", we know that she took an ambulance there, which tells us that she went to the emergency room, which was also left out (and definitely changes the way treatment is approached). We know that something went wrong, which was never disclosed as to what the complication actually was in the first place, which is a major red flag. The bottom line is the baby is healthy and the mother is healthy and they are both together now. What I'm more concerned about is how many other people that were in the ER that night for EMERGENCY CARE due to something that wasn't caused by a CHOICE they made died or had to have their treatment delayed because these people CHOSE to have a home birth?
Think about it.
Were rights violated? Maybe, but we don't know for sure…
Was "emergency treatment" administered successfully? I'd say so, considering everyone involved is safe.
The right to CHOOSE is what our country was built on. The more "Laws" we make based on our ideology, rather than simply doing what is right, the more this country is going to keep drowning. You go ahead and pray. I'm going to continue to do what is right.
Vaccine Injury
"Was "emergency treatment" administered successfully? I'd say so, considering everyone involved is safe."
You call the whole family being traumatized safe???? What kind of insensitive person are you???? That
Vaccine could have brain damaged that baby! Vitamin K shots have permanent negative effects. Trauma after birth can damage the bond between mother and child permanently. Or is it that you view people as cattle? This type of thinking is horribly arrogant and entails mind control techniques which
are really quite evil. You consider condoning this type of Fascistic behavior 'doing what is right'. ? Are you for real???
Our humanity depends on compassion. If you can't feel it, try to study at the least the concepts behind it.
Molly Pitcher
Don't you know that most women go to the ER when they go into labor? Then are moved to maternity for the baby to be delivered. The story says that the baby was born in the ambulance, not the ER! And how do you know that there are omissions in this story? Were you there?
If you think that this government has your best interest at heart you are sadly mistaken! You just wait and see what this great o b a m a care has in store! You will no longer have a say in your own health care! Don't believe me read the bill please!
This has nothing to do with Obamacare or God. It is this woman's right as an American Citizen to question what is being put in her body as well as her child's. The hospital should have been more than willing to give her print outs about the Vac, explain what it was and why they wanted to give it to her and her baby. If she wanted her husband present that is also her right. She was not refusing anything she was requesting information and wanting to be tested for Hep B that should not have been a problem. It is also your right to refuse to sign something especially if you don't know what it is. Given her state of being, the hospital should not have been pressuring her to these things. They should have waited until her husband was present because it is also his child and his right to as a parent. The staff was making her feel unsafe and she was afraid for her baby as well. Weather or not you have Obamacare, Medicaid, or nothing the hospital is getting paid for treating you there. They are working for you, not the other way around. This couples constitutional rights were violated in many ways. It sounds to me that the Doctor and staff did not like the fact that she opted to have a midwife and not an OB doc. That is her right and her choice and it is wrong for the staff of a hospital or anyone else for that matter to judge her and treat her differently. That is why we live in America Freedom. Does not matter if you agree with it. It is still her choice as an American. I really hope this couple wins there case.
Brittany Sanchez
Is this for real????? It sounds like it could never happen! Omg! This is so so terrible. Makes me want a homebirth next time!
Just makes me sick….. Thanks for posting this
While this is an absolutely terrible thing, I would just like to point out that PennState Hershey, while affiliated with PennState as a corporation, is in no way near PennState Main campus. They are about three hours away from each other and Hershey, PA is in no way related to the Sandusky incident. It's a shame to see such a wonderful town slandered like that so I was hoping you could correct it.
I am grateful to people like you who keep us informed of what is going on. I am very disturbed by this story and it absolutely infuriates me that our government could do something so disgustingly low.
I often wonder what ever happened to our world; you know, "the land of the free and the home of the brave" we call it. It is a damn shame that these people are making liars out of those of us who sing that song.
I want my country back! I don't know what kind of a Republic THIS is, but it is certainly not the Republic that the red, white and blue flag that I used to "pledge allegiance" to in school stands for! That flag stood for a Republic that fought for liberty and justice for all. While once upon a time Americans like Jodi could say these words with pride, after something like this happened to her and so many others, how can we not blurt such words with sarcasm and disdain?
couldn't have said it better myself!
This govt intrusion in people's lives is out of control and it has to stop!!
Commercialization of medicine has cause major hysteria in this country., USA is the only country that give 26 diff vaccines ot their children before the are 5yrs old most ly as babies and unnecessarily. Unless there wa an outbreak why do we need to over vaccinate?? so the companies that make these vaccines and the docs who apply them can stay in business…. and get paid!!!! Yes, let's be candid!
I was not vaccinated until I was 15 yrs old and I did get the chicken pox, measles, hepatits and look I'm still here. Yes, my brain still functions too…..
CPS has major issues and it is time to defeat it. We must pressure our brainless politicians to do somethhing about it!
names please. name the doctors, name the social worker, name the cops etc. dates are important. i was not able to confirm any of these facts.
Hi Chuck,
The social worker's name is plastered all over the internet: Angelica Lopez-Heagy. I have yet to read one nice thing about her, let me tell you. She's been named in the satirical blog, "What Not to Do," in rule #382; Even Small Amounts of Power Are too Much for Some People. If anyone is interested, here is the link to her professional scorecard on HealthGrades.com, where she ranks 1 star out of 5 (the national average is 4 out of 5) http://www.healthgrades.com/provider/angelica-lopez-heagy-ymy3d. I have yet to find an article on any of the news sites that names the doctors or other staff members, however. I'm sure they are named in the suit, but who knows if contacting Jodi and Scott Ferris will get us the names; they're probably prohibited from publicly naming names. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I am taking this incident as fact, since the HSLDA is taking on the couple's case.
This story's details are all over independent news sites and countless blogs, and when I entered all of the keywords for this case, including the social worker's name and the couple's names into snopes, nothing came up. Is that what you mean by being unable to confirm the facts? Here is a link to the Midstate News news story: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/03/williamstown_couple_sues_penn.html.
Of course, the hospital claims that it did nothing wrong…. Really??? Forcing a newly postpartum woman out of her bed and ejecting her from the hospital isn't wrong?? Does anyone else see the irony here? The hospital wanted her baby to stay at least 24 hours for "safety," but yanked her out of her bed–bleeding and in pain–and kicked her to the curb? So what would they had done if she started hemorrhaging in the parking lot?? Where's the concern for liability there?? Is it just me? What is wrong with people?
Another reason not to buy the Ferris' version. This scenario is extremely unlikely for so many reasons.
Maggie C
I am a labor and delivery nurse. I'm fairly certain this story is not entirely accurate…..actually, probably incredibly blown out of proportion. We don't give vaccines without consents….period. (Of course, I'm sure there are rare cases of a vaccine accidentally being given to a baby. We are imperfect people and bad things do happen. I'm certain that if that ever happened, the nurse would never forgive herself-especially if the parents were anti-vaccines. She will probably punish herself harshly-more harshly than anyone else.) It's not law that you get the Hepatitis B vaccine. When I go through all the consents and paperwork to sign with new parents I ask "Do you want your baby to get the Hepatitis B vaccine?". If they say no, I say "Ok, here's an information sheet to look over if you'd like". End of story. I've done my part, they've done theirs.
When a baby is "taken away from the parents" it's for good reason. I mean, come on! It's only temporary. Get over yourselves. Let the medical staff do their job. Are you going to resuscitate your child, check for heart abnormalities that could be life threatening, facilitate the transition to breathing externally for the first time. When a baby is born pre-term, there are so many complications that could arise. Actually, a lot of 34-36 week babies come out screaming and crying and then after about 1-2 hours, they start deteriorating because their lungs just aren't strong enough.
Let's be honest, had the mom held onto that baby and something happened because the medical staff didn't intervene….the medical staff would be sued. It seems like it's a lose-lose situation for us on the medical side.
I look forward to the truth coming out of this story. I know some wonderful, caring people that work in that facility.
What happened to this family is a crime & those involved need to be punished!!!! I do wish that folks would stop pointing their finger at our President every time they are unhappy with what goes on!!! Grow up people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A lot of people have bad experiences at many different hospitals. It is likely that many other people had pleasant experiences at Hershey. I feel badly for this family and hope for their success in court. However, comparing what happened at the hospital to something that happened LITERALLY 100 miles away is disgraceful. There is absolutely no connection with the hospital or the "state officials that let Jerry Sandusky" run around with little boys for years. There were mistakes made and those people will pay, but the only villain is Jerry Sandusky, NOT Penn State.
No government and no corporation, NO entity for that matter, should have any say in our personal decisions. Period. Unless of course it is completely egregious the intentions of us as parents. Otherwise, no way in hell.
mari garcia
It doesnt make sense to me why she would want to be tested for Hep B before vaccination. does she not know what a vaccine does? If she or the baby had Hep B the shot wouldnt cure it or anything, vaccines are preventive against major diseases such as polio or whooping cough. there has to be a lot more to this story.
O.k I must say that if all this is true it is awful. But, I have a hard time believing that it happened this way. I agree with the hospital in the 24-48 hours stay they do have to worry about lawsuits because they are who people go after when things go wrong even if the pt's are the ones who made the decision to leave. I would think the hospital would have offered for the pt to leave AMA (against medical advice) all they have to do is sign a form saying the hospital won't be responsible if something happens because they are leaving against their advice. Once that is brought up to pt's many of them change their mind about leaving. They want to have a place to put blame. Where I work at they must sign a consent for the Hep B shot and as far as i know that is a law. Parents have the choice to say no and that is respected. I myself did not have my children get the vaccination. If that is not the case I do agree she should be very angry. I do think it is awful that she wasn't involved in what was going on with her child. I do think that because she delivered in an ambulance they needed to get the preterm infant into the NICU as soon as possible so that heat loss does not occur and stress the baby out. So I could see why it was taken away quickly. But what is the whole story was the mom bleeding and they had to stabalize her first. At the time of birth there is so much going on the parents are being told stuff and do not have time to comprehend everything. I do not like stories like these because I feel like the whole story is not being told. I really believe that most people in the health care field are there because they want to help people but are so regulated by laws, insurance companies and fear of lawsuits. Anyway just had to put my two cents in. It is crazy if that is why the baby was taken away but is that the whole story?
I call bs. There's something about this story we're not hearing.
fran henry
Am I to assume the parents had a stamp on their foreheads that said "Homeschoolere/Homebirthers"? I think not. So how did the hospital know to stick it to these radicals?. Of course, it's a horrifying saga, but some little tidbit of info is clearly missing, a tidbit that would likely clarify this mess.
Sorry but there is something very fishy about this story in more ways than one! First off I work in a hospital and 3 years of it was in an OB unit! A hospital or a doctor can NOT LIE ABOUT A HEALTH CONDITION! They can make assumptions but they can not LIE! 2ndly, They can NOT FORCE a treatment! Clearly someone has had a bad run in with hospitals/doctors and THINK they know it all and really don't. & If you think that's bad, just wait til all these new things with insurance companies come into play. Hospitals & Doctors have no say in them. So if you ever think your forced to do something, ask your doctor why and they'll probably gonna reply back with insurance company required!
I cannot believe this. That poor family, and poor little baby that got unnecessary medical services against the parents will. Seems like the government thinks they are the super power more and more. That social worker and police deserve some justice. I'm so glad they are taking this to court.
This is ridiculous and a horrible thing for parents to experience. But that point can be made without comparing it to the Sandusky molestation tragedy. All that does is attempt to sensationalize the story, and it's bad enough not to need that kind of "hook." This story stands on its own, and it detracts from the issue to drag in an unrelated event.
The State becomes Trustee, or custodian, of a child through the issuance of the Birth Certificate. They therefore, have the right to seize their "property" or to care for it as they see fit, not unlike an automobile. This is part of the "sleepwalking" that we have been doing for decades. In 1921, the federal Sheppard-Towner Maternity Act created the birth "registration" or what we now know as the "birth certificate." It was known as the "Maternity Act" and was sold to the American people as a law that would reduce maternal and infant mortality, protect the health of mothers and infants, and for "other purposes." One of those other purposes provided for the establishment of a federal bureau designed to cooperate with state agencies in the overseeing of its operations and expenditures. What it really did was create a federal birth registry which exists today, creating "federal children", of which they must monitor and care for. Most people are just ignorant of how it is all set up and how to get out from under it, that is all…..
The State becomes Trustee of a child through the issuance of a Birth Certificate. This is how they can seize a child from its parents. They are just looking after their "goods", not unlike an automobile….
"Have the parents gather their facts including documents, statements, pictures or anything the could be helpful and call our office at 1 800 671 1776 to see if there is enough evidence to enable us to help. If we can, we certainly will … we have observed and heard of similar experiences across the country. God bless your concern for this young family." —
Contact http://www.LC.org with the info
Talk – Talk – Talk
A lot of bitching, whining and complaining from uninformed babbling know-it-alls.
Money talks – and very few have put in the bottom line that they intend to open their wallet and contribute to this family's legal efforts (remember the people this long winded responsive rant began with on this blog?).
So, yes, by all means let your ignorance shine forth about what you really know nothing about and then PLEASE DONATE!!!
CPS took a baby from the delivery room in Pittsburgh after saying the mom tested positive for heroin? The mom had only consumed a bagel with poppy seeds.
I did a home birth and labored for 30 hours and pushed for four and had a healthy baby boy! My placenta didn't deliver and I was bleeding to death so I had to go to the hospital and while they were "fixing me up" they discovered my pelvis was separated. The original hospital I went to transferred me to a university hospital and I had almost no problems. I did have one nurse walk in with my baby (we had him admitted so he could be with me and because his head broke my pelvis!) and said, "What were you thinking?! You could have killed yourself and your baby!" I pretty much just stared at her in shock. She wouldn't let my son stay with me that night because I was on pain meds even though I had someone else in the room who could help me out with him. It turns out he was more than welcome to stay with me that night (according to the morning nurse). I was a little upset that he didn't get to stay with me the first night, but when the doctor walked in and I realized he went to my church, I immediately relaxed and completely trusted him. He was great! I also lucked out on the social worker who was trying to help me get Medicaid or Medicare ( I can never remember which is which). The social worker turned out to be my husband's employee's wife! She was a blessing. We were totally blessed and since I now have a plate on my pelvis and cannot deliver naturally again, I will be returning to that hospital for any more children we have. I feel for this family and hope everything works out for them. I would be so upset if something like this happened to me. I wish the family could have had a better experience. I really wanted to do another home birth, but that is impossible and hearing stories like these worries me. God Bless every birth!
Just wondering if the social worker gets a kick back from the drug company for each parent she coerces to take the vaccine? Since the social worker lied, and there was no court order, are they being charged with kidnapping? I hope this story gets out and no one will dare step foot in this hospital where doctors and medical workers are willing to lie according to this story. I would not trust them to treat a splinter let alone anything else. No wonder these people wanted a home delivery. I think they may end up homeschooling after this fiasco. If the child ends up with liver damage, which I hope to God not, this woman and the doctor is personally liable. Also sounds like there could be insurance fraud involved. Who pays for the extra time at the hospital that was not necessary and treatment of a so-called illness? What about malpractice?
No. The social worker does not get a kickback. Don't make crap up.
This news is concerning. We live in California, where they are trying to make it more difficult to use a philosophical vax exemption at this very moment. The deadline for commenting against the bill is April 17, if anyone is interested. They want us to sign off on "knowing we're endangering our children" and that sounds like an invitation to CPS to me.
It happened to me also, in Rochester, NY, at Park Ridge Hospital.
At least Annie had the good fortune of being born a girl. With circumcision rates falling as they are I wouldn't be surprised to see the day when boys are stripped away from their parents to have their genitals forcibly mutilated against the wishes of the parent (not to mention the consent of the child).
As a nurse that has worked in L&D for 9 years I'd like to take the opportunity to set a few things straight. First, this situation is a nightmare for any parent. Second, if the facts are as stated this is totally unacceptable. If the parent is determined to be competent then THEY are the ones that should be deciding what is best for their child and their family – no matter if the healthcare and hospital agrees with the decision or not.
I must say that I am extremely unimpressed and disappointed at your decision to end this post with "The moral of this story is that government and hospital workers will lie about the health of your child and quickly violate your Constitutional Rights in order to to force medical treatment upon your children without your consent." because I can tell you that MOST hospital workers will NOT lie about such things and will help you to care for your child and growing family in the manner which makes you most comfortable even if they would choose to do differently for their own family. No parent should have to deal with a nightmare like this but health care providers should also not have to be painted in a manner that is deceptive like you did. Shame on you.
bull! they convince parents to mutilate their sons constantly!
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My heart goes to these parents, because I raised my children confronting that tyranny and arrogance of the medical establishment for about 20 years. I hope this will get enough publicity to help change things in the medical omnipotence.
The Lady made some mistakes . She should of had a OB/ GYN that took care of her through out her pregnancy, even though she planed in a home birth. Just because she wanted a home birth doesn't mean no prenatal care for the Mom. He/She the Dr., would have backed her and her husband up in the case of an emergency, such as she had. All the trouble she got into is how you are treated by the medicinal community when they hear HOMEBIRTH. I myself think they didn't plan well, either not looking into a safe home birth but mostly their mid wife was not very qualified to help them stay out of this sort of trouble.
Anonymous Thug
For all those thinking changes like this are all about Obama, and that things will change with a new administration, you're all sadly mistaken. Whether it's healthcare, gas prices, etc; it won't change with a Republican or Democratic Administration. They're just like bad cop or worse cop, all about grabbing control for the New World Order and the Corporations who are helping to roll out these draconian changes to rule over the American public.
Vaccines aren't just about boosting the immunity of people to disease. The real purpose is to weaken the immune systems of individuals. Groups like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (whose main purpose is to "vaccinate" under the veil of helping protect Africans, Asians,etc; from disease) has an alternate, more cruel purpose. They put additives in vaccines to cause sterility (Google it), and to damage immune systems. Obama is just one more puppet helping roll out this system. It won't matter who the president is, I'm sure the Republican one (like Bush II) will roll out similar damaging bills.
That's why I laugh at those who hate people based on race, political party, etc;. You become patsies so the American public is always fighting ghosts — Al Qaeda, "terrorists", Blacks, illegal immigrants, Republicans, Democrats — instead of the real enemy: the new World Order elites that want to stifle our rights. That's why you'll continue to accept TSA bullies and other unconstitutional thugs and grabs for our rights, to "keep safe".
The only person who has commented the absolute truth. I wish people would open their eyes. This is the truth that seems to far fetched for most Americans.
The local news just covered this yesterday and this incident happened last year. The parents are suing. The issue will be resolved in court or by settlement. Let them sort out the facts.
Bethany, I agree- I don't understand why this is being discussed like it happened last week. Letting them sort out the facts is right, but I also don't see anything wrong with standing up for a fellow member of the human race who has been so wronged. That being said,
This incident took place in June of 2010.
Where was our concern then? Before I'm verbally abused with comments by some, believe that I am outraged by this as well. I can't even imagine the fear, frustration, and anger the mother must have felt. My stomach was is knots just reading about it. I feel that what the hospital and social workers did to her was unpardonable and traumatizing.
Aside from that, all the "us vs. them" political comments to this post are not surprising to me at all. I believe this is what 24/7 news coverage has done to our country. We are all quickly becoming armchair fans of football team politics. Is there NO middle ground in our country anymore? Our choice is one political team or another? Thats it?? I'm just dissappointed. I thought this particular community- one so concerned with health and well-being of ourselves AND OTHERS was more enlightened than some of these posts are illustrating. Some posts seem downright uneducated and uninformed. Other posts seem to have an "every man for himself" or an "only the rich shall survive" philosophy when it comes to healthcare. Don't poor people DESERVE to live and be healthy, too?
SARA- I love your sight, but please respond to Bethany's statement that this in fact happened in 2010. (I checked this fact myself, first) With all due respect, I believe absolutely you have a right to your opinions, but you are also in a position of influence and with influence comes responsibility. You did not mention the date of this incident anywhere in your post allowing many to believe it just happened.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
The Ferris' recently filed a lawsuit which is why the story is just now becoming public.
I would find out the name and the license number of the nurse, doctor, and social worker, and report their license to their local licensing board.
This is awful.
lois, I also work at my local health department and my bosses would NEVER vaccinate their own children. Not all public health officals believe that "herd" immunity is worth the risk to their own child. As someone who has had the misfortune of listening to them dicuss serious side effects that our clients have had in the office, I completely support a parent's rights to choose. T
Betsy Baird Quillen, as a medical professional, and a homebirth mom, I'm totally offended by your comment. Homebirth isn't selfish and hospitals cause so many problems with low risk mothers and babies it's not even funny. The sad thing is most moms think the crap they are put through in the hospital is "normal".
I feel so much empathy for those parents, as a mom who was called "sellfish" for not giving formula to my healthy breastfed newborn, the hospital staff is not always right, and often is not
The current govt only protect the rights of big business. DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!
We the people keep loosing our rights each time our representative sign another bill that is suppose to "protect us" and people do not realize it. If they only knew the Constitution of the United States and specifically their Bill of Rights (first 10 of the Constitution), perhaps they would be aware of and ready to stand for their liberties. But sadly, more are still sleeping in front of fox. People need to do their research instead of listening to the media or haters.
Did you know?
**NBC Andrea Mitchell is married to Alan Greenspan (Federal Reserve), **CNN Gloria Borger is married to Lance morgan of Powell Tate (which represents a bunch of the Military-Industrial complex companies), **NBC Chuck Todd is married to Kirsten Denny (a Professional for the DNC party), **NBC David Gregory is Married to Beth Wilkinson (who was a an executive at Fannie Mae). **CNN John King is married to Danna Bash (daughter of Stu Schwartz, an ABC News producer). **Anderson Cooper's great grandfather founded Jekyll Island, where in turn the Federal reserve was planned.
Bain Capital (Mitt Romney's co-founder) owns Clear Channel Radio ( Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, O'Reilly), and also has major control of Premier Radio, and Salem Broadcasting. AND including AMC Entertainment, Aspen Education Group, Brookstone, Burger King, Burlington Coat Factory, Clear Channel Communications, Domino's Pizza, DoubleClick, Dunkin' Donuts, D&M Holdings, Guitar Center, Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), Sealy, The Sports Authority, Staples, Toys "R" Us, Warner Music Group and The Weather Channel.
Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse, Morgan Stanley are all contributors to Romney and Obama.
Google Ron Paul 2012… He is the ONLY one who is for giving us all our RIGHTS BACK!!!. Do your own research.
I just had a baby in January…. Had they done that to me, someone would be in serious pain…
Who cares what the republicrats started or finished. They all play for the same team and I assure you- you and I are not on it. The point that I've taken from this article is that these parents who LIVE IN AMERICA were violated. Whatever grounds that the hospital used to HOLD THEIR CHILD AND VACCINATE HER WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT were bogus and a violation of the right of these parents to invoke the religious exemption to any vaccine that they damn well feel like. Maybe these parents have done their reseach and made their own educated decisions for healthcare that go beyond the pharma funded spew that the medical world so graciously refers to as "science" I have two vaccine injured children and I assure you I am not ignorant to what the medical community claims are the "facts". It is I that have done the reseach to heal them and do what the medical community claims could not ever be done. People need to learn that we no longer (and I don't care who you are) live in a world where the government is not brought and paid for. We cannot expect any business, including the holy vaccine makers, to be honest about a selling product. Everyone needs to read for themselves and understand that this violation of rights can and will progress if people remain supportive of the medical industrial complex that is taking hold in this country. The hospitals have been collecting infant DNA without consent and have been sued over this as well. Anyone thinking that this can't happen in the good ol USA just hasn't had it happen to them yet and I stress YET.
How can you we be judgemental about this story without hearing both sides of the story? There are two sides to every story and we are only hearing one.
Holy moly you people are crazy.
Don't believe everything that you read.
The fact is that on both the left and right there are plans and policies that completely violate the principle of subsidiarity and strip rightful authority from the family. An unjust law is no law at all. This is absolutely criminal.
PennState Hershey Medical Center is NOT a government hospital. It is a non-profit organization, and the hospital side of things is run independantly of the University. And comparing this case to the Sandusky nightmare is unfair and inaccurate, and until we have all of the facts, please do not pass judgement. The only side of the story we have heard is from the ferris family. And their story has too many hole and inconsistencies for me to just blindly beleive that a child was taken into police custody just because mom questioned a vaccine. I too have refused and questioned vaccines for my children (both born at PennState Hershey Medical Center, and was of them was a preemie), and social workers, police, custody issues were not even brought up, so I can't help but think there is way more to this story than we know now. I'm just asking you to please make sure you have all the facts, correctly, before posting another article like this one. (and no, I don't work for PSU or this hospital).
You are absolutely right! Thank you! I don't work there either but I was treated there in the past for twelve years and the staff there is nothing but polite, respectful and caring. They would never do anything like that unless there was something horribly questionable about the parents or situation that needed to be done to protect a child other than just shots.
I just posted something similar. Hershey is a great town and I hate to think people are going to get it confused with University Park which is completely disgusting. Ew.
Are you truly outraged like I am? Tell that hospital about it here is their webb site.
http://www.pennstatehershey.org/humanresources taking them to court is one thing but if they were to get thousands of outraged letters that would be quite something else. I went to their webb site and it lets you leave a message with out leaving any of your personal information not even your e-mail address… Or we could always send snail mail to their address… I would love to see them come out with a formal apology and offer the woman a thousand dollar gift card and several years worth of diapers or something like that, not that anything could take away the moment or the awful memory but it would maybe soften the blow.
Just a quick question. Who was the midwife Jodi saw and how early was Annie? Thanks.
"Third, what does (in the interest of full disclosure) OUR geography have to do with Jerry Sandusky's actions? and what does that have to do with this issue?"
How long did it take to finally bring this child molester to justice? There was a massive cover-up concerning Sandusky yet this mother is paying the ultimate price of having her child removed from her care at a time when the child is supposed to be bonding with her. This is the same state! The mother committed no crime yet a criminal like Sandusky is allowed to operate for decades! You do the math.
Seems like kidnapping to me. I'd press charges and have those monsters arrested.
All I can say is that they need to sue everyone they possibly can for as much as humanly possible. Hubby's right, get a lawyer, tell him he can keep as much as he wants, and sue the fire out of them. Who cares about the money? It's the idea.
Robert R.
Okay, I absolutely can't make it past the second paragraph. The author of the article can't even suppress her bias and agenda long enough to state facts, or make fair comparisons.
First, Penn State Hershey is absolutely NOT the "same area of the state," as Penn State University. (Unless one would count New York City as being in the "same area of the state" as Buffalo, or Los Angeles as being in "same area of the state" as San Francisco.) They share a name. That's it.
Second, if the author comparing this to what Jerry Sandusky allegedly– likely, but still allegedly– did to kids, then she has lost all objectivity. It doesn't compare. I'm not saying one is worse than the other. I'm saying you can't use them as a basis of comparison.
Third, what does (in the interest of full disclosure) OUR geography have to do with Jerry Sandusky's actions? and what does that have to do with this issue? Are we just a giant enclave of child molesters, here? Who would rather sodomize our children and inject them full of drugs rather than…. what? Live in the clearly superior world of the author? Does anyone else sense a straw man argument here?
I am tired– TIRED– of everyone flinging their particular feces into the air, and at each other. One of the very first things we can all do to improve the state of our society is to refuse to buy into, refuse to read, and refuse to spread any article, any message that fails to present an argument in a calm, reasoned, fair, and well thought-out fashion.
It doesn't matter how right (or even wrong) the author's position is, if they are trying to bully or coerce their position, instead of letting it stand on its own power.
'Obamacare' had nothing to do with this story. This incident took place in 2010. The blame game gets old fast!
One sided story……….why did they spend the night in the parking lot with nowhere to go???
Perhaps the hospital staff had concern about the couple's ability to provide for the health and well-being of a newborn if they had "no where to go" ?
I would refrain from making any assumptions based upon only hearing one side.
Yeah, that sentence also gave me pause. The husband left to take care of their older kids and then came back, so they couldn't have been too far from the hospital. Why not go home instead of sleep in the car?
really? you would have just said 'ok' and left the hospital without your baby?
Phil Haslam
One of the big problems with the whole medical system as at 'now' is that it prescribes a 'set' of answers to a problem based on what it represents to the people as the . . 'only way'. That is, it does not advice on alternative therapies. A few individual pratictioners who've done they're own work do but that's far and few between. Practitioners are practically brainwased to assume that antibiotics and clumsy intefering bodily actions are the best in many cases only answers there are. I have a friend who beleives in the medical proffesion, in fact most people hold it to be a God and those working in it, especially those who refuse to do any personal alternative work put peoples lives at risk by not doing so. My friend has serious life threating tumors and has been told several times she's about to die. She's had an array of the best Harley street practioners all giving different accounts of her problems. When a doctor uses something like the polio epidemic to highlight the benifits of anti-biotics, what they forget to mention is that not every one died. Those that didn't they rarely talk about or investigate. Only those who take the medication. I will write a book sometime on how the body itself is an extremely wonderous self healing system that hardly requires, if the correct steps are taken, extremely little intervention. The medical profession is much like the economic system. It fails to look at many many other ways, only it's way which is falling apart. We already know of countless sources of disturbed nurses and doctors who know it too. Any practioner who tries to make the claim that it is the best way is blinded by his God. They were not given the kind of training that is needed. They'll riducule anything slightly do da precisely because of their God like status and suffering the delusion of being looked up to by their patients which only affirms they're delusion, every day, every week, every year. Intervention, antibiotics, vaccines are all unecessary if you follow the correct path. I've donated my body to my own personal research. That is I now only eat certain foods which inform me of reaction to foods in my body. I already know that upon eating certain foods I get extreme pain. Knock them off and the pain goes, quite literally. I've had worms recently and cured them using black walnut & wormwood complex, not available via the health service. It removes worms within days as long as you've also stopped eating what it was that gave u them. As long as you don't eat the incorrect food the worms do not reapear. If you do,they'lll be back, light as day. Most problems are resolved through diet. Crap in crap out. When you go to hospital, notice, how much attention it pays to 'food'. You only ever get dietetary care if you have dietetary prescription, otherwise you are left to rot with a completely inadiqaute food. Gerson's treatment, banned in both the UK and In the States has proven to save many lives where those who were suffering sought a last resort alternative. It's banned . . why? Because the medical profession is an industry, a commercial money making practice whose bosses are the profit makers. They need profit to survive at the expense of life itself. All these problems are now completely proveable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyFyfTPGgeI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUbEgg6GklU
Am I the only one who finds an issue with the story these parents are telling?? All of this just does NOT make sense!! There are too many "Oh, my goodness" moments for this to have actually occured as it is reported here. I had two of my three children at Hershey Med Center and I found it a wonderful experience with caring and capable employees. I trusted their knowledge and their hope for the well-being of my children.
How about we let the hospital and social work agencies tell their side of this story before we jump to conclusions?? Let's hear BOTH sides…then we can take sides.
Holly Hartman
This actions of several individuals in this case raise serious ethical questions specifically with respect to commitment to clients, the parents' right to self-determination, informed consent, cultural competence and social diversity. To prevent future problems like this one, it would be important for the parents and their supporters to raise these ethical concerns with the involved agencies, the National Association of Social Workers, licensing bodies, and other relevant professional organizations.
Betsy Baird Quillen
If I had a dollar for every time a couple "planned" a home birth and then RAN to the hospital when they realized it was a terrible plan (a lot of the time it is)!!!! My goodness, the arrogance and pride (and ignorance) of people who RUN into the hospital in the midst of hard labor, forcing many to scurry hurriedly to prep for a new life…..in minutes, sometimes seconds, all because of their own selfish desire to "skip" the hospital and preparation…..only to change their minds "in the midst of labor". Here is some advice from the wife of a doc at Penn State Hershey Med Center, and a mother of five children delivered at Penn State Hershey Med Center – Stay the heck home and OUT of our hospital if you're not a believer in modern medicine!
As a mom to two boys born at home I really resent your statement. I am not ignorant, nor did I make my decision to homebirth my babies out of selfishness. I did my research and based on facts (actual statistics), my own health and my beliefs I decided to have a homebirth. That was the best decision for me and I stand behind that. Noone has the right to make that choice but me and my family. I do believe in modern medicine, just not for low-risk mothers giving birth. If you check out actual statistics on homebirth vs. hospital birth, you will see some very interesting numbers…
Is there a way to find the name and contact information for the social worker who visited. The social worker should be taught a lesson.
Scandalous story! Thanks for passing this on, Sarah. I will pass it on as well.
I do think that dragging Jerry Sandusky into this is probably an overreach. And those commenters laying this travesty at the feet of President Obama are way off base. (I disagree with Obama on many issues, but he didn't order Vit. K or Hep B. shots for a newborn.)
That said, you did us all a great service letting us know about this shameful case. Thank-you.
Anyone who doubts the value of vaccines should have lived through the polio epidemic, contracted and came down with measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, diptheria and tetanus. Or how about an infant dying of Hib Meningitis? I am a retired Public Health Nurse, and worked with vaccines. Vaccines are miracles of medicine, but because child bearing age people have never experienced the disease, they don't know why they are so valuable. Hepatitis B is a killer. There is no thimerisol in it or in any other childhood vaccine. Ask any HIV positive person if they had a choice between a vaccine or getting the disease, what would their choice have been. I had all the "routine childhood diseases." I remember them all with exceptional clarity. I was only 5 when I had chicken pox, but I remember the itch, and the only thing we had to help was Calamine lotion. When the measles hit, my throat was so sore I couldn't swallow, and it felt like there was sand in my eyes. Again, you just had to endure the pain until it went away. Mumps can render boys sterile. Why would anyone choose not to protect a child with these vaccines!
In the case of Jodi, I feel bad for anyone who has to lock horns with CPS. I worked with them. Most are very kind hearted and want only to see the best outcome for the child. Two of our social workers were murdered while working on a case. I think there is more to this case than meets the eye. We only heard one side. When I worked in the newborn nursery, every baby got a vitamin K injection and silver nitrate drops in their eyes to prevent blindness in case of exposure to gonorrhea. That was back in the seventies. In any case, a vitamin K shot or a hep B vaccine is NOT the worst thing that could have happened to this infant!
In conclusion, I urge all potential parents to find a good OB – GYN and a reputable Pediatrician BEFORE you get pregnant. And please investigate vaccination by searching the CDC. They have the best information about vaccines. Get prenatal care as soon as you find out you are pregnant. If you are without resources for insurance, contact your local Health Department and apply for Medicaid… you will be covered for your pregnancy and your baby will have insurance. Better that you wait until you are married, or use some kind of protection if you are not!!!!!
Lois, regardless… no one has the right to force medical treatment, or ignore parents wishes and do what they damn well pleased. If I had to do it over again, my kids wouldn't have had half the vacs that they did have. We don't live in the dark ages any more where we don't have sanitary systems and nutritional deficiencies… Next they will force us to take flu shots. I have great respect for nurses and the medical field but for every nurse and doctor that supports that stance, I know another and more that believes the opposite. As individual, I am entitled to make my own decision based on what I can learn about it. I had mumps, chicken pox.. etc.. as did my kids… The body needs to build naturally. You cant punish the masses for the few ignorants..
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As a pediatrician, it is obvious to me that this is a very misleading, one sided story. The woman who is writing the article does not seem to know any factual information. Who is she and where did she get her info? Did she hear it from a friend whose sister knows this mom? Not to mention, the hospital/doctors can't defend themselves and tell their side of the story because of the patient's right to privacy.
Just with the limited facts she gives, I can tell you that this baby was probably at high risk for infection and should be monitored in a hospital setting for 48 hours. Not only that, but it is highly recommended for the Hep B vaccine to be given shortly after birth if mom's Hep B status is not known in order to significantly reduce the risk of getting this deadly disease if mom does have it. Finding out mom's status can take several hours, at least, assuming you are in a hospital that can run this test 24/7 (which not all hospitals do). It is obvious that the main problem here was poor communication between the medical team and the parents. However, that being said…if I feel that a parent is placing their child at significant risk by not allowing certain medical care, I would have no problem involving the courts. Almost all pediatricians would do the same. Sorry to say, but parents don't always know best.
The woman who wrote this story should check her facts, because its obvious there much more to the story than she wrote.
Ray G
"As a pediatrician" – this partial statement alone shows a predilection on your part to skip over facts and get right to the opinion that you desire everyone to take as established, objective fact.
Are pediatricians more objective than the general population?
Are pediatricians somehow above human nature and thus able to avoid confirmation bias and other well researched problems with "experts."
So in other words, a more honest approach on your part would be to forego the anonymous claim of a medical degree and make a well reasoned argument. If it's a solid argument, it will stand on its own merits.
"However, that being said…if I feel that a parent is placing their child at significant risk by not allowing certain medical care, I would have no problem involving the courts. Almost all pediatricians would do the same. Sorry to say, but parents don't always know best."
That quote speaks volumes by itself so I don't really need to elaborate.
And that really is what this is all boils down to – it's not Obama or Republicans or whomever else one wants to vilify, it is the question of whether a doctor can legally override the wishes of an otherwise sentient parent. You say "yes" most of the rest of us say "no."
Right….parents always know best. The parent who shakes their child because they cry too much or burns their child as punishment, or leaves their child in a hot car for hours. People constantly comment online about others' horrible parenting. But suddenly, I say it bluntly, and I'm wrong.
I will call child protective services if a parent shakes their child or refuses chemo for their child with cancer or refuses necessary blood products when a child is bleeding after a serious trauma. Why is refusing antibiotics if I strongly suspect a life threatening infection any different. If the courts side with the parent, that is fine. But I will let someone else decided that.
I would rather a parent hate me because I called the courts than because I didn't convince them to do the right thing and their child now has severe life-limiting disabilities or worse.
As for being more objective, yes and no. No in that I am human and subject to the same bias as everyone else. Yes in that I have taken multiple epidemiology classes and statistic classes, which are constantly re-infornced throughout residency. Thus, I can read an article and study and tell you if it has a leg to stand on or if the author is full of BS.
Anyways, it doesn't really matter. People will believe whatever they want to believe. There will always be other people out there will find ways to justify their thoughts and beliefs no matter what real evidence is out there.
So, I will keep doing what I am doing because I truly believe that I am doing it in the best interest of my patients and I want the best for them
Here's a fix for ya! Stop going to conventional doctors! Go to Naturopathic Physicians instead, & you won't HAVE these problems! I went to doctors for 37 years & took all of my children to doctors. They're all fully immunized up to this point. They'll NEVER have another immunization EVER again, now that I know what I know about immunizing – and the real story behind our medical system. I'm now almost 39, & none of my family will EVER EVER EVER return to a doctor or hospital unless we have a trauma/emergency life/death situation. Iatrogenic (doctor/hospital caused) deaths are the NUMBER ONE cause of death in America!!! I have the statistics & the studies sitting here in front of me as we speak, & I've taken numerous classes on the subject! ONE out of THREE people who are admitted to hospitals… DIE!!! We will always go to our Naturopath from now on! They don't force the issue of immunizations, medications, treatments, etc… And they don't hold you accountable if you question something or feel in your gut that something isn't right! They find the cause of the disease & heal your body the way God & nature intended. They follow the Hippocratic oath closer than our modern medical people ever do (AND FIRST DO NO HARM!) I had 3 surgeries, 2 of which were preventable & not even needed! They got me & my entire family off ALL of our 17+ years of medications (and between the 4 of us there were approx 15 of those stupid drugs), & we are all healthier than we've ever been. Ugh……. This just ANGERS ME! Our medical system is SO screwed up! I DO believe most family physicians & specialists really do care. And I'm grateful to them for that. They want to help! But they don't know how! And when it comes to the politics of our big stupid medical system & pharmaceutical industry, most doctors don't even have a CLUE as to what's going on! And as far as that doctor up there saying most immunizations are needed… YOU ARE WRONG. There are now MOUNDS AND MOUNDS of proof showing the dangers of immunizations & proof that immunizations never even wiped out disease like the general population has been led to believe! I also have those papers in front of me. (I wish we were all an audience here, because I'd stand up & show all of this to everyone!) There are even yearly charts showing that the diseases were eradicated before the immunizations were even introduced to the public! In addition to the charts are myriads of websites, books, documentaries, reports, etc… that provide the public with the proof. Here's a link to one of the best I've read yet. And if you care about your children, you'll read it too. As far as those so called "doctors" and "official idiots" taking her baby away, I'll tell them where to go and show them exactly how to get there! http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/dangers-of-vaccinnations/vaccinations-the-hour-of-the-time
You are an idiot. The person who wrote the article you referenced is an idiot. Questioning whether AIDS is real and immunizations cause AIDS like symtpoms. Lost all credibility with that statement alone.
Ray G
The same guy with the anonymous medical degree is displaying his intelligence with such powerful arguments as "You are an idiot."
That and the "parents don't always know best" remark below – you're batting a 1000 now.
Be careful where you shop for information! Meanwhile, don't ever cut yourself, stay indoors in your home and out of contact with the public until flu season passes. Don't EVER travel to a third world country. Be prepared to suffer through shingles. Stay away from bats and raccoons…they carry rabies, and if you are bitten, you will die without immunization. Don't EVER come in to contact with blood from another individual…. don't let your kids play any sports because they could be exposed to someone elses' blood or body fluids. Go ahead… send your kids out in a boat with a big leak without life preservers! Send them ouside in the winter with no shoes or coats! Have fun!!!!!
Did you read the part where Jennifer said she wouldn't ever go to a hospital unless it was a life threatening/life or death situation? Hospitals and doctors are invaluable under those circumstances. However, for the prevention and treatment of most illnesses and chronic conditions they are pretty useless, unless you want to be on prescription poison, oops, I mean drugs for the rest of your life.
There are plenty of natural methods for treating cuts, preventing flu and other diseases that vaccinations allegedly "protect" against. Quality nutrition is critical, but most people want cheap food. I'm not sure why you seem to be so obsessed with exposure to blood and bodily fluids. That's highly unlikely, unless you're a medical professional of some sort. I'm not sure how her kids would be at risk for that from playing sports?
It's perfectly fine if you want to inject your children and yourself with toxic vaccines that may or may not actually protect from a disease. However, the risk of injury or death is very real, and not worth it in many parent's opinions. They have the right to that opinion, just as you have the right to your opinion. Why don't you pull up a few of the vaccine inserts from the manufacturer sometime and read them thoroughly. They're available online. You might actually see that in some cases, even the manufacturer can't say whether the vaccine works or not. That's right. They actually put that right on the insert for anyone to read. Most people don't, though. They just go on rants when informed people who have actually DONE THE RESEARCH comment about their decision.
Don't forget to go running off to the doctor for every little sniffle, sneeze and earchache too. Be sure and get an antibiotic for every little thing, and see where your children's health ends up a little later in life.
Doctors are not gods. They can and do make many mistakes, and sometimes they're just flat out wrong. Maybe if you took a few hours to look up some of the information that Jennifer claims in her comment, you would know that she is right. The facts and studies are out there, but most people want to remain in denial. Have fun!!!!
I retract the previous statement. You are right. It was not a good argument. What I should have said is that "what you are saying is idiotic." Same goes for the author of the article. Anyone who wants to hint at AIDS not being real loses all credibility.
Helen T.
I couldn't agree with you more, Jennifer. Naturopaths want to get you OFF of medicine…..and suggest the ways to make you healthier and KEEP you healthy.
All these negative comments to your posting: how fortunate all these folks have had only GOOD experiences with allopathic healthcare; healing with no side effects.
But many of us haven't. I could write REAMS on the dreadful new generation of asthma medicines: they actually don't work as well and make you gasp. And one tends to need more and more. No doctor ever mentioned other ways to control attacks, like diet change, etc. That's why you're right, Jennifer: the naturopaths are adhering to the Hippocratic oath more than any mainstream doctor. Looking into natural ways to control my asthma has saved me many, many emergency room visits (and those were when I was ON my medication!)
And, if you trust your doctor, what about the drugs he prescribes? Vioxx?
I respect everyone's opinions here on whether to vaccinate or not. I chose to wait until after my son was 24 months to vax and did so on a very slow schedule that was between myself, my partner and our pedi. I read this article first on the original website on which it was published and called "shennanigans" then. There are facts missing here and things that dont add up, what is the other side of the story? Where is the local coverage? I'm not saying things like this can't and don't happen, but get all the fact before harshly judging what appears to be a very reputable hopsital with a highly regarded staff. Being an informed citizen to fight injustice and trampling of our rights is a wonderful thing in my point of view, but please don't take a story like this one at full value without doing your research first.
I get that hospital staff & social workers feel like they know best because they deal with many situations each day but that doesn't make their decisions right & it doesn't make their choices better than the parents.
When my sister in law gave birth in Pennsylvania she developed a blood clot. They took the baby & wouldn't let my brother (her husband and the babies father) see him & wouldn't even tell him if the baby was ok. We flew out o Pennsylvania from Utah & by the time we got there he still hadn't seen his new son nor did he even know how the baby was. During this time the hospital staff made all decisions for the baby like what he would eat & what medical care to give even though my brother was in the hospital the entire time.
jan houston
I would encourage everyone to go to http://www.parentalrights.org and sign the petition. Then get involved! Call your congressmen! Your representatives! Make sure they support this amendment!
jan houston
I would encourage every parent on this site to go to http://www.parentalrights.org and sign the petition. Read what the amendment says. Then petition your congressman to pass it.
You are all so gullable! Do you really believe this story? There is more to the story than we are hearing. Children are not taken from their mothers because they didn't get a vaccination. You people just want something to complain about. Don't go to the doctor if you don't want to but don't try to smear those who are smart enought to know what is good for them. Wake up!
http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/pa/201203270.asp SO cool HSLDA the Home school legal defense fund is supporting this family. Support them if you can. thanks so much for posting this Sarah!
James Love
This is an obscene case of civil rights being jacked.
Personally I think it is silly not to vaccinate (I have no medical training or argument to go with this other than I got vaccinated as a child and it worked for me). Doctors know (or should know) medicine which is why I go to them, just like I know computers which is why people bring them to me.
Personal feelings aside, just because I think it is a bad idea to skip vaccinations doesn't mean I can or should press my belief onto my neighbor, friend, enemy, or any other citizen. Freedom is the right to choose, regardless of whether or not it is medically, religiously, or logically sound decision making. Until your freedom to choose infringes on someone else's freedom, you should be left well enough alone to do what you will.
This story made me sick. My prayers go out to this poor family and the outrageously cruel treatment they were subjected to. I hope that the tyrants involved in this lose their job, as well as the rest of them sent a message!
A Brinegar
Although this story sounds horrifying, as written, I am wondering if there is not another side to the story. The language used is strong "government run facility", "held prisoner", etc. which makes me skeptical about the authenticity and unbiased writing of the story. I have had many wonderful experiences with such "government run facility" hospitals and do not believe their intention is harmful.
I want to tell the family that my heart is torn for you, I am so sorry this happened. I can imagine, try to imagine what you are feeling and I am trying not to sob. I am so sorry. = ( I wish I could be there for you and help you through this.
I had my son by a midwife and nearly everyone around me did not support it. This trend must stop. We have choices! We are free!
Donna M. Spencer
Penn State Hershey Medical Center is NOT A GOVERNMENT hospital. This has nothing to do with the government at all. There are statements made in this article that are not accurate and remember, there are two sides to every story.
Wait and see what comes of this and all the facts are out in the open. This case is coming to court in May. The incident happened in June of 2010.
Although it is most upsetting to find a baby separated from it's mother at birth that happens many times due to some physical circumstance and the child is not harmed for life. I had to be separated from two of my children at birth due to medical emergencies and they survived unscathed.
Linking the Jerry Sandusky case with this is ludicrous and inflammatory.
There is no government conspiracy happening here. Period!
Charlene Connell
No government conspiracy, but a huge abuse of government power, and it is happening more and more. And as government expands, it reaches into more areas of our lives, it has more power and more ability to abuse it. Simple as. Or perhaps our founding fathers were nuts for trying to limit government power. Interesting note: Child protective services are protected from most repercussions of their poor decisions, something you and I are not. So, they have all the resources of the government to fight you, and unlike an individual who, upon messing up someone's life wrongfully, there is usually little that can be done to the social worker who stepped over her reasonable bounds and reporters are protected, so the vengeful person who knew the child was not at risk is complete free from worry of consequences. Something needs to change.
Aptly stated! People perpetuating the mania of ignorance!
Aptly stated @Donna, not Charlene.
Charlene-you don't know the facts. But keep your blinders on and believe everything you read – see where it gets you.
No, this has nothing to do with Obama. If you think it does, you obviously were completely glib and ignorant. This has been happening for years. Maybe educate yourself instead of blaming people like a child?
Charlene Connell
It has nothing to do with Obama the person. It is not caused by Obama care. But, Obama care is a huge extension of government control and power, and that always comes with a loss of freedom for the individual. It also allows more opportunities, in this case in the area of health care, for abuse of government power. If you do not agree with this, fine, but argue with the founding fathers, not me, because they are the ones who restricted federal government power out of a belief it was the greatest threat to freedom. Only a limited government is compatible with freedom. Our government is a monster that has escaped its cage. Obama is not the one who let it out originally, but he is keeping with the trend to expand it's scope and power at increasing rates which threatens our freedom.
How is this related to homeschooling? This was a birth of a child and this story is very one sided. Before anyone says I'm not compassionate towards the family, I feel terrible that a mother could not spend the first hours/day with her baby. I know the feeling of bonding with your baby and it is a special time. Plus as others have posted, Hershey Med center is not a government facility and how could you even link it to Jerry Sandusky? Just because it has the name Penn State? We all need to get our facts straight.
Charlene Connell
HSLDA defends parents rights because parental rights are integral to the right to home school. This story was not one sided. I do not know if the Penn State mention was helpful to the point of the story, but this is not an individual incident. Parents are routinely made to chose between dealing with CPS and giving their child either the vit K shot or the hep vax. Most just cave out of fear of CPS. This story's basic dilemma is not uncommon at all and didn't even surprise me.
Another article mentioned the older children in the family are homeschooled.
With all due respect, the hospital is nearly 3 hours from Penn State, and there must be more to this story than they are saying. The hospital is one of the best in the U.S. and has a great reputation!
Charlene Connell
There must be more. There must be. Because if there isn't, we have to believe this could happen to us. There isn't. Know how I know? Because I know mothers (met them face to face) who have been threatened with this very same action (having CPS called on them) if they do not consent to the vit K shot or the hep shot. Also know one who had CPS waiting for her when she arrived home (the hospital let them know when she was released). So, how far fetched does this sound, since I personally know five ppl who were intimidated into care they didn't want for their children? And no, it wasn't all at the same hospital. There is a trend, an unreasonable, irrational, fear based trend, to believe that vaccinating everyone at all costs is acceptable.
Insane. Really and truly. Im SO saddened that Annie's first hours of life were so crazy and controversial. BUT…PLEASE be careful lumping all of the medical community together. As a NICU RN wjo has chosen NOT to vaccinate my own child, I and many of the other profeasionals I work with give parents the REAL information, and dont attempt to intimidate them in order to obtain consents etc. We really try to obtain informed consent and even have signs to place on baby's bed alerting others to the fact that a child should NOT recieve vaccinations. Its a slippery slope to describe ALL of one group in a certqin way, just as its wrong to lump tigether asians, african americans, Christians or Muslims.
Tragic story, but lets not make it worse by making assumptions and generalizations.
So proud of those parents for sticking up for thwmselves and thwir babies!!
My heart aches for that poor family! I am so glad the baby was returned and I hope the parents sue for millions! This has to stop! The only way to stop it is by bankrupting these people. I've heard that some states get 100k for every white kid they keep in custody per year. It seems like money is a motivator.
I disagree with: "The moral of this story is that government and hospital workers will lie about the health of your child and quickly violate your Constitutional Rights in order to to force medical treatment upon your children without your consent." I am a hospital worker and mother of an unimmunized child. Do not use this example as proof ALL hospital workers/hospitals will behave in such a way. I regularly withhold vaccines from my patients at their request, as do my co-workers. When I had my last child nearly 10 years ago, I refused the hep B and there was NO problem by nursing/hospital staff with my making that decision for my child.
Couldn't agree more. I refused vaccinations and was treated with respect by all of my physicians and nurses. What an irresponsible way to try to spread hysteria and one sided "stories".
I would encourage anyone concerned with this situation to visit the Parental Rights Organization website (http://parentalrights.org/). There is something you can do about the erosion of parental rights in this country.
witty retort
the author offers ZERO support for the conclusion that "There is no doubt that this social worker's intentions were entirely personal; she was aiming to teach these homeschooling, homebirthing parents a lesson they would never forget."
Clearly, the hospital usurped the rights of this family, perhaps aggregiously. When all the facts unfold, I won't be surprised if this family came out of the gate with attitude and virtriol. I'm not saying they deserved what they got, but even in a home-birth situation, you should have an emergency plan in place that involves choosing a hospital that you can live with, and working with medical professionals who will respect your wishes.
It's simply irresponsible to plan a home birth without ANY consideration of what will happen if things go off script…
I have no issue with vaccines, and I do have an issue with some of the misinformation put out by 'skeptics' — however, waiting until one's husband is present doesn't seem like such an unreasonable request.
I think its wonderful that CPS protects kids that really need protecting, but in this case they went way overboard. Sorry government, but people's medical, education, and food decisions they make for their kids or themselves is not any of your business.
Voters have made those areas of personal life "government's business," by granting to government both the mandate and the power to "protect kids that really need protecting." In theory, all government does is "protect" us. In practice, all government can do is commit legal aggression. This reality is the root of the problem, unpleasant as it may be to face. Until a significantly large number of people face this reality and give serious thought to what government's proper role is, these aggressive bureaucratic violations will only increase.
Well you are in lala land. Parental rights are not defined in the constitution they are better known as "inalienable rights", or rights you assume you have, such as making decisions for your family. What if the child had hep b, the vac. would render useless and possibly cause bodily harm or death. She was likely stalling for time since they kept pushing her when she wanted her husband there, or she was not sure of the facts either way they were not respecting her decision. Also, you tend to be pretty tired and sore after having a baby which would explain why she wanted her other half there.
Raven Lyness
I'm rather confused. To support this case, which has to do with this hospital, government and the way these people were treated, we have to send money/donate to a HOME SCHOOL fund, when home school actually has nothing to do with this story whatsoever and was not mentioned in this story until after we were asked to donate. It doesn't make sense. Almost seems like this is a made up story to try and trick people into thinking they are helping this poor couple when it's just a desperate attempt to make money.
As a journalist, I'm quite suspicious about this article.
witty retort
clearly, the author has an agenda
A Momma
And to those who doubt this story because it's not been reported anywhere else, the Patriot News is reporting it:
Interesting how the HSLDA account doesn't say a word about the allegations of jaundice treatments not received or the fact that the child was re-hospitalized two days later. Obviously there is more to this story.
This sounds like a very one-sided article. There are probably three sides to this. The parents, the hospitals and the truth. I find it hard to believe that this happened the way the article is written, There seem to be some facts missing.
A Momma
First, to correct the author, Hershey Medical Center is almost 2 hours away from State College, where they Sandusky case is occuring. Penn State's hospital and Hershey's merged, creating the Penn State Hershey Medical Center, but this particular hospital is not located in Penn State.
To add my two cents, my 2 year old daughter was life flighted to Hershey Medical last December after falling in my home and hitting her head. She was unconscious and got flown to their trauma center. The hospital called Children and Youth on us because we refused a FOURTH blood test, in which the nurse admitted it was hospital error causing all the blood to be drawn. Because we refused this FOURTH test, we had social services at our door. Luckily our social worker was kind and took our side of the story, and nothing came of it, but it shows that Hershey does what they want with no regard for the parents or the family. This is the last place I'd take anyone who needed medical care, this hospital does not have the best interests of the patient at heart.
Dawn, in the 1990's Isreal's doctors went on strike. The only thing they didn't go on strike for was emergency care. The "ideopathic" mortality rate dropped by 50%. I think that speaks volumes.
Joy F.
I live in Hershey, PA, and my twins were born at Penn State Hershey Medical Center in 2009. I never had any problems with the entire medical experience under the hospital's care, but then again I didn't try to buck the system. It is absolutely wrong the way these parents were treated and that their baby was taken away and given the vaccine unlawfully…something must be done. However, I don't agree with people who pick and choose vaccination like a buffet. It's a preventative method of controling disease in our population…either climb aboard or don't. Don't wait until you have Hep B to get a vaccine. That's nonsense. My mother was an RN in labor and delivery at this hospital for over 30 years, and can't believe this story. It's so sad. Bad decisions were going on here for sure. People have a lot to answer for. I hope this couple pursues their rights and the rights of their child.
Linda Thomas
This blog has turned reckless and irresponsible. Problems such as Jodi had with her baby will never be solved by stirring up all this fear and resulting hatred in these posts. Stand back and take a look at what you are doing here. This conversation is most certainly the opposite of "Healthy" as in your website's name – neither emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, and certainly not good for the body.! Let's send blessings to Annie, love to her parents, and keep our focus on correcting problems with good will and open hearts.
I feel like this is an isolated incident regarding this particular hospital and if government was involved it was local government and not federal. I gave birth with a midwife at a christian hospital with government issued health insurance and had the best experience. I was there a week as a boarder because my infant was preemie. I never once felt pressured to do anything and was kept in the loop 100%. Is there a concern with the cost and availability of health insurance, YES! This story is not about that.
Ashlie Mang
And we recently got a call from the head of sisters hospital and the social worker was fired and they had found out that I wasn't the only mother that she had done this to there was a number of false informed cases were she lied just to open a case.. And told me that I could personally go after her for detrimation of character and filling a false report as well as the case I have against sisters hospital… I can not believe that the Dr and staff at hospitals who we are suppose to trust do this it is not right and the nurses were just horrible if you work in nicu you are supposed to be happy helping parents get through there tough time if you don't like what you do pick another job not a nicu nurse
Ashlie Mang
I would like to share my story it is similar to Jodi and Scott and they are 100% right social worker try to play god. I just recently had my daughter aaliyah premature at sisters hospital in buffalo my labor and delivery went very well until after when aaliyah was admitted into nicu my fiance and I kept asking what was going on with our daughter and they did the same thing the Dr did to Jodi and Scott she's in good hands don't worry.. And she is healthy the next doctor told us that she was very sick it continued back and forth for hours finally they let me see my daughter. She seemed ok she was in a incubator but she was stable. The next thing I know my fiance and I are confronted by a social worker informing us that there is a investigation being opened because I supposedly had pot in my system.. Now I have never smoked pot and I was out raged and demanded to see the toxi results the women got nasty and told me she could not release that to me a couple hours latter the women comes back again telling me that aaliyah tested positive for pot and if I didn't sign a consent to treat her for with draw that she was calling the police and taking my daughter away from us.. I was distraught my fiance was going nuts we demanded to see her toxi screen no we couldn't social worker bitch wouldn't allow it.. I signed the consent and went back to my room and cried myself to sleep when I woke up I went right back to my daughters bedside and broke down I could not believe what was happening I never smoked pot this was impossible. Aaliyah doctor her real doctor came in that night and asked me what was the matter I broke down and told him what the social worker said and what I signed and asked if my aaliyah would have to be put on morphine? The doctor looked at me like I was an alien and said that aaliyah never tested for pot that she had a clean toxi screen I was so confused and asked if I could please see it for myself and he showed zme and sure enough it was negative I was outraged lucky the doctor felt so bad he even got my toxi screen and sure enough that was negative to and gave me copys.. The next morning my fiance called our lawyer and went to the social worker and flipped and wanted our daughter transfered to buffalo children's immediately sisters wouldn't allow it after I was released we met with the lawyer and told him everything long story short he got it into court all cps cases were thrown out and the social worker was put on suspension until a full investigation was done.. My daughter was in the hospital for 3 weeks and in that time we were treated like garbage the nurses were ignorant and ruge and tried making us leave when we were visiting our daughter it was horrible and we now have a law suit against sisters hospital for breech of parental rights, emotional distress and falsified information I will never step foot in sisters hospital ever again and I will always hold a grudge for what they have put me and my family through no. Mother should ever have to go through what Jodi and I have gone through
Don't bother with Homeschool Legal Defense Association unless you're cool with the advancement of a theocratic state.
But on topic, this is ridiculous. I am pro-vax but I'll be damned if someone told me what I could or couldn't do with my child's medical choices (other than circ, but that's a whole other thing.)
I agree, leave politics out of it. I know plenty of republicans that would be up in arms over this. We are all hybrids …. I have had two children at home. The second I did go to hospital because my placenta wouldn't come out. The baby came with me. They offered to admit her, I said no. So, she spent the night with me at hospital. I was the patient, baby the visitor. The hospital even gave me the placenta for the birth tree, which shocked my midwife. I feel for that mother, that would have had me furious and you did a great job writing your article. I would have had flames spurting out my fingers…..
This has nothing to do with socialized medicine! In France, most of the births are supervised only by midwives in hospitals, in the Netherlands at home, Sweden has one of the lowest vaccination rate for a industrialized country. And yet, these countries have universal healthcare. Additionally, you dont pay huge amount of money for delivery, have paid maternity ( parental) leave, free vaccinations and prevention care. Dont mix things up please! These parents were unfortunate to get obtuse people at a vulnerable moment. Being informed of your rights and laws is the best way to respond to these zealots. They should sue the hospital and the social worker who despite being a governmental worker, is primarily an individual who does not necessarily (even if they are supposed to) represent the whole government.
Mary Wallace
The same thing happened to me. I was held hostage for 2 days, my baby was fine. ( Until insurance covers is the 2 day thing) They told me I had to take aids, hep tests, that if I tested postitve, they would take my child away, off the bat, when I walked in..they did genetic testing against my will, they drew blood every 6 hours from her feet. There was nothing wrong. I had my midwife and doula with me. This was St Peters hospital in Lacey WA. I am scared to say more. These people scare me, but it was alot worse than this. What they did to me. How I gave birth with a room filled with 15 students taking notes and making comments. Drugged against my will..How they took my baby away to a nursery and I had to kiss ass and sign everything they put in front of me with a smile…how the doctor there told me my baby was going to die a million ways it was so DARK..why we need them, when my baby was fine, how they wouldnt let me go home, on a holiday, because the car seat wasnt right, and we brought back the same carseat later, and it was approved…after they hooked baby up to wires and all these tests while she was in the car seat to test it out. It was gestapo hospital for sure, my family are all lawyers and they freaked out when I told them, also the hospital kept calling me to make sure I had a new pediatrician, really nightmare stuff. The bill was 30 grand. I will never pay them. I felt like I was in jail,. in was all in lock down and some girl had her basinet next to door and 20 armed guards showed up when alarm went off…THIS IS HOW THEY TREAT PEOPLE??
That is just absolutely unbelievable and disgusting!!! I simply can't imagine being treated that way in a hospital just after giving birth!! These parents were treated like negligent criminals just because they questioned the need for a vaccine!!! I just have no words… I feel so bad for these parents. How horrible to have their newborn taken off them by force AND forcibly vaccinated!!!!
Aasta smith
Omg! That is so so wrong i feel for the parents. Stupid f**king hosptial, doctor should b shot
I work in a hospital, and I think this article is a fabrication- or at least a one-sided exaggerated report. Healthcare workers and social workers do not have that kind of power. I've seen situations where kids were GIVEN BACK to their parents- only to be brought back to the hospital almost dead from abuse. I don't think it happens very often the other way- where kids are taken away with no evidence.
Also, why would she want her child to be vaccinated only if she already had HEP B? That makes no sense
You shouldn't believe everything you read.
I work in a hospital, and I do not believe this
Sweep the floors there, do you?
Troubling, but I'm going to point out that MS Hershey Med Center is (geographically and philosophically) FAR FROM "the same area where officials allowed a serial child molester like Jerry Sandusky, former Penn State assistant football coach, to go free for decades and continue to abuse children"
Just trying to deflect misdirected blame from a part of Penn State that had nothing to do with that scandal. Don't paint the entire system with the same brush.
Pamela R.
If this story upsets you as much as it does me, please go to http://www.parentalrights.org and get involved!!! This isn't the first time that children have been taken away from their parents for trumped-up reasons by overzealous government workers! Encourage your Congressional representatives to support the Parental Rights Amendment!
Who makes this shit up? Don't believe it for one second.
wow that is so crazy i feel for her i had all most the same thing happen to but it was in oklahoma at osu and i thought it was for insurance fraud its not right hope u win your case i caould not get a lawyer to take mine the worse feeling to leave your baby behind in care of people who are screwing u and doing more harm to your baby
I have delivered there…..don't believe any of his happened the way your saying it did!
Sad story but there was no need to bring in the Sandusky crap. The Hershey medical centerfold one had nothing to do with keeping him on staff. Irrelevant to the story.
Mari Kble
Why do you say "Donate to this…" when you should give us the name and contact information of the ombudsman at this hospital so that we can write letters expressing concern for this horrible situation?
Alan D.
I think you should be ashamed of yourself for posting such nonsense. The whole story is unbelievable – there are so many facts that are so off base that it can only come from a sick individual. First of all, you fail to recognize that the issue with Sandusky occurred at Penn State's main campus which is approximately 3 hours away (driving) from Hershey. Sandusky has nothing to do with the hospital! HMC is NOT a "government hospital" … There is no way that police can come in and just take custody of someone in a hospital. Also, it takes weeks (at best) to get the court to appoint a healthcare worker as a proxy for a patient … there is no way that a social worker could immediately assume decision making. Moreover, social workers do NOT make clinical decisions??? How in the world was a social worker asking for consent for a procedure/vaccine??? – that is impossible!!! Also, you have all these statements from risk management – these people are the most tight lipped individuals on the face of the planet … are you really asking us to believe that because you are so persistent that they just caved to your incredible questioning? You disgust me …
thanks for your comments… I total agree!
And who got the social worker involved?
"A short time later, a different doctor told Jodi that Annie was very sick and would need to stay in the hospital. This doctor also arrogantly indicated his dislike for midwives with the comment "too many people think they know what they're doing"."
This sounds eerily similar to the case of Maryanne Godboldo.
This story is frighteningly similar to that of our son's birth. He was born at home in Allentown, PA and had too much fluid in his lungs and was having trouble transitioning. Our midwife stated that he needed to go to the hospital, so my husband and mother took him to Lehigh Valley Hospital Cedar Crest where the nightmare began. The assumptions and accusations were constant. They tried to force me to give him formula and would wait until my husband or I left the room and would then preform tests on him that we had refused only minutes before. Eventually they threatened us with taking custody of our son and we countered with moving him to a different care facility. After a full week in the hospital receiving countless doses of antibiotics, we were finally allowed to take our baby home. We did however, manage to keep them from giving him any vaccinations (which we are strongly opposed to) with the exception of vitamin K. My heart goes out to this family, as I know only too well what they went through.
i live in saskatchewan,canada. the hospital tried to keep my son when i refused all injections. when i felt strong enough i decided that the mistreatment and rudeness was enough. i told them i was leaving with my healthy son, and called my ride home. they had a security guard wait outside my room and told him i was not to leave. but when the doctor came down i told him i was leaving and they didnt object, but tried to scare me into thinkig my son might get sick without the shot. that was all and i had to sign 7 different forms which i wasnt allowed to read before i left. but i held my ground and left on my own discharge 12hrs after giving birth. im just saying if you know your rights and laws, they can't do anything but, try to delay things. but im in canada, so i can see im fortunate to live here.
i was so enraged at this article. i don care much about politics but when i read this i was enraged for days. the only way to placate my anger was to go on a week end hunting trip. the thing is this is violating our constitutional rights and if this continues and all our constitutional rights are taken away i WILL start a rebellion and if anyone wants to join contact me at email@example.com . i do not want this to happen to my children. when i read the title i was like wut the @#%$ this is horrible.
Please be careful with your "reporting". Jerry Sandusky is from State College, PA, not Hershey, PA.
I think the author was referring to the Penn State system in general.
Kimberly Fletcher
It's funny how I read this the first bad thing ever about Hershey Medical Center. I don't find it funny about what happen to the child and parents. I think the way the person worded it is not all the facts. I had both of my sons at Hershey Medical Center and never had one problem with them. They can not tell you that you have to consent to giving the baby a shot. They advise that you should but they give the choice to say yes or no. I know that because its a paper they give you to read and sign saying you give the hospital permision to administer the shot or not to give it. The only time I seen a social worker was to go over the papers for child support to make sure I understood it. Hershey Medical Center will not call a social worker unless you do not pick up your baby to feed,change or anything else the baby may need. The only shot I know that you may not say no to is the whooping cough. I told them no I did not want that,I was then told if I did not get it they would not allow me to leave that day. I asked what the shot was for and the nurse explained everything to me about it. She also gave me information on the shot in case I wanted to know anything else even though she had explained it to me. I then decided that it would not hurt to protect my son against whooping cough.
You gave in to the system, collapsed like the good little sheep you are. Goody for you. Obviously, you didn't run into this doctor or witch of a social worker.
This is just horrifying and all to familiar. When our son was 4 months old he had a shunt surgery to drain fluid that had been collecting from birth trauma. The children's hospital we were at twisted medical facts, named a different surgeon we had never met as our son's surgeon and completely ignored our actual surgeon to come up with a charge of child abuse. It was the worst day of my life walking out of that hospital just days after our son's brain surgery without him. We finally got things turned back around and got our son back, but the "child protective" system needs to be redone. I mean how can you expect people to be honest when they get their funding based on how many children are taken out of their home?
First of all, they do not get funding based on how many children are taken out of their home.
I am sorry this happened to you, but a hospital is obligated to report any kind of brain injury. It will be investigated, but not necessarily acted upon unless there is suspicion. Yes, perhaps sometimes mistakes are made. But wouldn't you rather a child taken away for a short time than be given back to abusive parents who could possibly kill their child?
Charlene Connell
In a word, YES. Harming a child in a healthy family so you don't miss one is WORSE than missing a few, just as jailing a few extra ppl so you don't miss a guilty one is WORSE than missing a few guilty verdicts. This is why we have INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
I believe the confusion surrounding Penn State and Hershey Medical Center is that the center is now called the Penn State Hershey Medical Center… That being said it is still not anywhere near where the Sandusky situation occurred, ie State College.
The whole story is very disturbing and being a PA resident (only about 1/2 hr away from the medical center), I find it very odd that it has not been covered at all in the local media. No one should be bullied into any procedure/ vax/ etc.
Elizabeth Bueno
I had a horrible expirence here in CONEY ISLAND HOSPITAL kinda similar at least they told her about her daughter I was 82 hours without knowing about my son asking like crazy and going under all kind of exams and machines they didn't say anithing till i start screaming and trowing everything away pulling my iv and my c sextion started to bleed taht the whole staff came to see me and in 2 hours finally met my own son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would she think she owns her baby?
I love how stupid this idiotic social worker is… So by her agreeing to getting a hep test.. If the kid came back with it being positive… A vaccine is going to cure it"? You moronic Satan worshipping social worker.. Vaccines are not cures…. They can't cure anything…. Shows how much of a Satan worshipping idiot she is….
We will pray for God to block any ill effects that will come of any vaccine
Arm yourself….over my dead body…. Over my dead body….. Cops need to be relieved of duty due to gross negligence on their part… Social worker needs to be unemployed…
Arm yourself
I Agree!!!
This husband and wife have every right to sue the hospital. I work in a hospital and have seen people sue for a whole lot less. I would see an attorney as of yesterday. No ONE and I mean NO ONE has a right to tell someone to get the child vaccinated. They might suggest it but have no right to with hold your child or make that child get a vaccination. What if your religious beliefs did not believe in this? What if you had been allergic to something like latex in the vaccine and so was your baby? This couple needs to see an attorney.
Sad story, unfortunately one crazy social worker and one poor doctor seem to be to blame. Should reflect poorly on those people, not on the hospital. The baby being born in the ambulance in the parking lot would be concerning and probably any competent physician would urge staying overnight to observe mother and child. Thankfully, these are isolated cases. I suspect both social worker and second physician will be dealt with appropriately.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
This is happening elsewhere. This is NOT an isolated incident. I just got this email today:
"I was linked to your story from another site and I have to say that sadly, something similar happened to me. Because I refused to allow my baby in the nursery, and I had her alone with me in my room. I had social workers sent to my room. When I told them to kiss my ass, they sent psych when I asked them why they sent psych they said "there must be something psychologically wrong with you since you can't follow hospital policy". After that, they called CPS and I had a case opened against me. I ended up singing their safety plan because I didn't want my baby taken from me.
Jodi and Scott are not alone, they are doing things like that here in San Antonio as well. "
These type of things make my blood boil. My wife and I chose to vaccinate our kids after a lot of research, but i respect anyone else's decision to not vax. When my children were born i didn't want them out of my sight for a second and thankfully my hospital allows the newborns to be in the same room as the mom at all times (i'm in CA). I didn't think anything like this was even possible.
What is happening to our freedom?
Sue them! Get the social worker fired as a bare minimum at least.
To truly understand parental rights as they are now please read:
Friend of the Court Enemy of the Family
by: Carol Rhodes
You will be shocked!!!
David Mathis
The reason there is so much turmoil around healthcare is because people are scared to death not to have healthcare. Fear. The fear in people is the problem. People will do almost anything it seems if someone gives them a contract that says that will be kept safe. Safe is an illusion that crooks make money and control people with. The fear in people is the root of the problem.
One solution is, people stop buying junk food, people start supporting local sustainable nutrient rich produce and then the population of this country will not need healthcare, except for catastrophic events.
And no, the government can't protect you from dying. If they offer you death prevention insurance, say no.
This has been going on for at least 10 years, since I got into the homebirth and anti-vax movements. Sadly enough, it was just as frequent then as it is now. It's just that now it gets more publicity.
Angie O'Plasty
Has anyone checked the facts? Hershey Med Center isn't remotely run by the government! Those of us in health care can clearly see that nothing else in this "article" is plausible, either. This was obviously written by an uneducated individual. Consider your sources!!!
yeah…"We the prestigious medical professionals can see that nothing is plausible in this story because WE the medical professionals don't ever make mistakes. We know all. Therefore this story is fictional and never happened. It's not even plausible."
Keep telling yourself that. And when you get done memorizing the symptoms that go with what medication. Tell yourself again. Oh and then when the pharmaceutical rep leaves from educating you, the medical professionals, how the newest drug works and for what (newest) symptoms… Tell yourself again.
Too bad you drag the good ones in the medical field down with you.
"Angie" did not say the medical profession doesn't make mistakes. She just said the facts don't make sense.
Your rant is unintelligable
I apologize…to be fair to Angie I should have used "Those of us in health care" instead of "medical professionals"… does that make it intelligible for you?
You are exactly right, the facts don't make sense. That's why the social worker needs to be prosecuted, and (unless they take the steps to make sure this isn't happening again) the hospital for allowing such NONSENSical facts to occur in their hospital; no matter how "PRESTIGIOUS" they are (or how proud the people of PA or otherwise are of them).
This is not only a portend of things to come under obamacare. This is just the beginning of the COMMUNISTIC STATE where the children are taken away from their parents from 3 to 7 years to "EDUCATE" them as to re-intergrate them back into the U.S.S.A. society. This is the future of our Country with Soetero as the leader… Understand , and act accordingly….
Link to ACLU of PA: http://www.aclupa.org/
Have the parents been in touch with the ACLU of Pennsylvania yet? If not, then they need to because this is one of the most atrocious civil rights violations of a woman's right to her own and her newborn's healthcare. A recent case came up in South Carolina which was far less extreme, but which warranted intervention by the ACLU which won the case for the parents to have their wishes respected in the birth of their daughter at a public hospital there. Here's the link to the ACLU's blog with that case detailed: https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproductive-freedom-womens-rights/your-body-your-decisions-means-you-moms
Here is the link to the ACLU of PA's website where these parents can get in touch to discuss the civil rights violations that occurred and what damages could be sought, which it seems to me there would be a lot.
It is vital that these cases be fought in the public eye to deter other malpracticing medical professionals, social workers, and police from committing such atrocities in the future against families.
I recommend the book: Friend of the Court Enemy of the Family, by: Carol Rhodes.
Written by a very brave lady this book shows how little control parents have once brought into the "system" for any reason. Since the publication of the book parental rights are being challenged in more and more areas which include health. It clearly shows the Orwellian power the State and Federal government has over the family, and how families are being torn apart by these agencies of government. I know it to be true because it happened to me.
I work at PSHMC as a RN in the ED. I can tell you how things work. If the baby was born in the parking lot, the first stop that baby and momma would make would by protocol be the ED trauma bay. This is not a nice looking room with pictures on the wall and a big comfy hospital bed with pillows and blankets. This is a scary looking room because it needs to be equipped to handle any and all emergent situations that may arise for any age of person.
This story makes me physically sick
Facts are important: Hershey is not where Jerry Sandusky's case was, so I have to suspect that other "facts" here are less than accurate. Real journalists get their info right, not from a lawyer's self-published press release. Unfortunately, the ability to publish opinions immediately has taken away from the real need to publish correct information.
Yeah, cause blogs are journalism right? And the opinion BEFORE the actual story was relayed affects the real issue here. We've gotta bright one here
Helen T.
Time to be humble about journalism : mainstream journalism has it's own sins now: they're often pushing an agenda. You really believe what you read anymore? The NYTimes hardly runs critical articles on GMOs……..
Jerlyn Catarelli
This is a very upsetting and sad story ….what a horrible thing Hershey Med did to this family! I just wanted to state that Hershey is NOT were Sandusky was.. it was Penn State College in State College PA Center County.
I have to say that this is a very sad story, and although I'm not from Hershey, I know many people who have had babies at Hershey Medical Center. It is a very reputable hospital. But there is no reason to sling mud at not only the entire hospital, but the whole city as well. As other people have mentioned Jerry Sandusky is not from Hershey. Yes, Hershey Medical Center is Penn State's teaching hospital, but the medical center and Penn State athletics are 2 different organizations. This is how wrong information gets spread – people don't check their facts. As a blogger, I think it's imperative to adhere to better journalistic standards, especially since our word is trusted more than the general media's.
I went to the hospital web site and shared my "opinions" and disgust with them. PLEASE do not just post comments here….go to the source. They have a comment section. They need to hear from people directly!
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
This is a blog, people. If you want Associated Press quality reporting and fact-checking, then someone needs to give Sarah a raise and a staff (after asking her if that is the kind of writing she wants to do). Why the animosity and hatred over a town mix-up? Chances are, she found a reliable article online that stated Sandusky lives in Hershey–even newspaper reporters make mistakes. Social services is, by the way, a state-level agency . . . so regardless of where precisely in Pennsylvania this or that child molester dwells, the suggestion that state government needs to get their priorities straight and harrass real criminals is a valid one.
My kids are vaxed and circed. HOWEVER, that has no bearing on what I would have done if anyone tried to do something to MY children without consenting with me first. I guess I lucked out, my drs at the Naval Hospital asked me permission to do EVERYTHING.
United Nations' threat: No more parental rights…including vaccine issues
As much as I am against vaccinations, for homeschooling, and definitely for parental rights. I would never support an organization run by a man who says such ridiculous things about our President, and my political beliefs.
I posted this on face book and have had some pretty rude comments myself about how this is all fabricated. Many people out there with their head under a rock if you dont' think injustices can happen in America or by our government. I have had 7 children myself all in hospitals way before I really understood many things about vaccinations. I totally trusted the health care professionals. I have also been treated pretty rudely by nurses and others in the hospital and ALSO been treated very well. What a shame that rude people would even bother to go into health care but the good out weigh the bad. But when the bad happens to you it doesn't matter how much good there is. The real point is a few individuals, wielding what appears to be, unlawful powers, took away the liberties of others. That we need to fight for! I'm with you Sarah and Sarah Watne too! Apologies need to be made and should have been done ASAP.
First off, this sounds like a case lacking of common sense on both sides of the issue. Here are my suggestions for things that could have been done differently by the parents that might have eliminated the issue.
1. Avoid the appearance of ____________. Unfortunately, as mommy2boysaz pointed out, "Type" Profiling does exist, so be prepared. Tell me, had you been one of the medical personnel staffed that day and a couple showed up at the door in the process of giving birth in the ambulance and having no "doctor", what would your initial reaction have been of their "type"? ("I Didn't Know I was Pregnant", anyone?) Now, I am not saying that you shouldn't be true to yourself and to your beliefs, just don't be pushy about it, OK? Good grief, If you want to be respected and not be discriminated against, then be willing to show the same. It's okay to be yourself, just don't be "all up in your face" about it. Take a look at Tebow, he does that all the time and even he starts to look like a religious nut case.
2. Develop a STRATEGY for an emergency situation early.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a midwife or having a homebirth. However, it would be extremely beneficial if you have an OB/GYN who is completely familiar with you and your wishes "on call" if an emergency requiring the use of a hospital were to arise. Go ahead and position an ADVOCATE for yourself inside the hospital. They will be able to vouch for you and shield you from unnecessary distress. A good OB will even be able to alert and advise the nursing staff of your particular needs.
3. Be a voice of REASON. If (or when) a situation occurs, stay CALM. Have a rational argument ready if needed. The quickest way to aggravate a dispute is to get obstinate and insist on an "Us versus Them" position. Most medical professionals are just trying to do their jobs the best way they know how and they simply DON'T KNOW any different. Feel free to educate them, respectfully, in a nice, "I'm sharing interesting information" kind of way. USE their OWN sources as back up. (The CDC website is an excellent place to get fabulous conflicting information. Even the drug product inserts will usually support your position rather than theirs. Also site published medical studies that you may be familiar with.) If you have thoroughly educated yourself on the benefits and risks of a certain vaccine or procedure, show your knowledge. YOU know you have made a rational informed decision. Don't be afraid, because you will have prepared a solid defense for any argument that they may present you with. Sometimes an intelligent, but at the same time quite vague answer can be your best option. The "I am going to take care of it with my pediatrician" or "We follow an alternate vaccination schedule" as previously posted are excellent examples of this approach. Also, as other posters have already said, research your legal rights and have written copies of everything you feel is necessary.
Nobody wants to get caught in these kinds of situations. Far too often it is the way you exude your character and intelligence that really determines whether or not they see you as a responsible, caring and "fit" parent. Bottom line, do everything in your power to not give them the ammunition to make such assumptions and hopefully the outcome will be much different.
Charlene Connell
Wow, yea, blame the victim. I'm sure women who are raped always ask for it too. Seriously? So this family must have done something wrong. Well, we'd all like to believe that so that we don't have to think that this might happen to us. So, just to pick apart ONE of your comments, I saw an OBGYN for six months of my preg. I also started to see my home birth midwife in the fourth month. Since, in my state, there are no doctors who will back up home birth midwives, tho my midwife knew a few doctors she would try to locate and transfer to because of their open mind, I did not inform my doctor of my "cheating" on him, nor my intention to have a home birth, until my last visit. After being cleared through a level 2 u/s that everything was normal, I let him know I was going with home birth. (I had to pay for my home birth out of pocket, of course.) Well, after one additional monthly visit with my midwife, where my bp was borderline, I was told to check it daily. When it didn't go down, my midwife referred me back to my OB, only my OB refused to see me. That's right, less than 40 days after my last visit, and after telling me, "If you ever need anything or change your mind, I'll be here," he had cleared me out of his system when I would have been barely late for my next routine visit. So, I did your whole have an OB you can work with thing, and ended up in L&D just like this couple did, only my baby was only 29 wks, and ended up in the NICU. And btw, they do EVERYTHING to your baby in the NICU and don't even start asking you about anything until weeks have gone by. I had no idea she was xrayed, scanned, etc. You aren't even told about it after the fact. And no, my baby wasn't fighting for her life either. She was breathing on her own from day one, off the nasal cannula at five days (it was room air moisturized), and taking all nutrition "orally" by a week. Only thing she had to do was get big enough to come home (couldn't maintain body temp). Yet they still couldn't even be bothered to tell me what they did to her. (And yet, they still didn't give her the hep shot because they don't give it to newborns here.)
OK, I'm going for another one too. I had a ped who was seriously pro vax. I don't do vax. I brought in my four pound preemie for a weigh in. I had been, evidently flagged for refusing the hep on leaving the NICU. First thing she says to me is, " I see you refused the hep shot. You made a big deal when you arrived at my office about a private room to keep your child well, yet you are refusing to vaccinate her against dangerous diseases." First, this is a doctor, comparing my four month old's risk of getting hep to my preemie's risk of getting RSV during flu season in a ped's office full of other kids? How do you begin to be rational when she thinks this is sound reasoning? I tried anyway. Well, my newborn isn't at risk of getting hep. I'm a SAHM, my kids are home schooled, there is no hep in my house, we don't use drugs, and my husband is deployed. However, she is at high risk for RSV because of her size and her prematurity and the fact that it is flu season. Can we just do the weight check up please? She will not be getting a hep shot today. The next visit, she started off pushing the hep shot. I told her that my baby would not be getting it now or ever. That if she had an illness she thought my child was at serious risk for, we could discuss that. However, hep is just not a risk and therefore not going to happen. She said I was not being reasonable as I had promised on my last visit. I said again, "What shots do you think my child should get right now that are for illnesses she is at risk to contract?" She would not answer my question. She said that she would not see my child again if I did not get the hep shot for her the next time she came in. She said "Good luck finding a doctor who will see your child if you refuse to vaccinate her." I said, "I'm not refusing. I'm asking you to explain the specific risk to my child behind your recommendation." I found a new doctor of course, and then her office called not understanding why I didn't make my next apt and why I wouldn't reschedule.
We can pretend it must only be unreasonable, unprepared, or other wise "not us" parents all we want. It won't do any good. Some ppl get all fired up about their way and believe the devil of those who want to do things differently for their families. When those ppl have power, it can get ugly.
BTW, I don't know anywhere where an OB will be "on call" officially for a home birth. Malpractice has insured that to be a non-issue as someone "on call" might be sued if something goes wrong.
Lastly, after delivering in an ambulance, they took her child away and refused to tell her about her child. If your child went missing and you had no idea where she was or how she was, I wonder how calm and rational you would be and if you could maintain a sweet, here is some information attitude towards the ppl who had already kidnapped your child once. (Yes, kidnapped, because they would not tell the parents anything about the child, or where the child was, or why the child was not being returned, then it is kidnapping. When the take your baby for some tests, they come and tell you, "We are taking the baby to the doctor for some blood work. It should take about an hour." To just whisk baby away in a non-emergency situation is kidnapping.)
@ Charlene,
I have been through hell and back with the hospitals. I have a child with a rare life threatening metabolic medical condition that put her in the NICU for nearly eight weeks. Had I been perceived as anything other than a responsible, caring parent, it is likely that I would have been accused of shaking or poisoning my baby and been arrested. There is no doubt in my mind that if the necessary medical interventions hadn't been done my baby would have died. Believe me, I understand the victim's POV, but I don't believe that all the facts in this case have been accurately represented. Having gone through my situation, I have learned that 1.)Trust no one 2.) Do your own research and 3.) Use careful tact and intelligence when conversing with Medical Professionals. No one is a better advocate for your child than yourself. And this is a tremendous responsibility.
My child has special needs and is developmentally delayed. I am her primary caregiver. I am a SAHM, but I also have the job of educating myself to make the most informed decisions that I can when it comes to her care. As I have learned the facts about things, I have come to the conclusion that I don't believe vaccines are effective or necessary. I have claimed medical, philosophical and religious exemptions to her ever getting more vaccinations. I have been able to explain my position using accurate data and never had the argument continue past that. Before I had done my own research, I relied on the doctor's information and asking them questions about it. They don't have all the information, most of the time what they know is only what the pharmaceutical companies and the pro-vac AAP have told them. In my case, I learned the hard way and allowed the Hep-B (their recommendation) at the hospital and her adverse reaction to the vac caused the genetic metabolic condition to rapidly and violently present itself. I know better now.
I have also learned that they don't always know best, and through quiet persistence, they have usually come around to my requests. I was able to feed her breast milk (she is the only child with her condition that was ever allowed that). I am currently feeding her goat's milk (not advised), and she has done so well, I will switching to raw shortly (as soon as I am able to get it). She has to be on a specialized low-protein metabolic formula, but I am currently researching other diet alternatives and learning all I can about orthomolecular and genetic science so that I can get her on more real foods. I am giving her probiotics and chlorella as supplements, even though her specialist metabolic geneticist doctor couldn't tell me whether it would be beneficial or not (he simply didn't know, and without studies and fact sheets, couldn't say). I find that the real issue I have with the medical system lies in the fact that they don't want to study foods or natural remedies for things, so the data doesn't exist and therefore can't be recommended. It's time to look outside the box. Mothers with special needs children are getting very good at this, just look at the doctor who created the GAPS diet. We are getting our desired results only by doing the work to find out the answers for ourselves.
As for my comment on "type", I was raised in the christian homeschooling movement. My family and I were very "Duggar-esque" in our homeschooling, homebirthing, homechurching, Bible-quoting lifestyle. Once I grew up and got married, I realized how totally scewed my worldview actually was. I was ruled by fear, the fear of people, places and ideas that were somewhat different than me (which the majority were). Fear makes a person emotional, and an emotional person is usually not a very rational one. Once I opened my mind to see past my emotions, I realized that just because someone makes a different choice than I would have does not make them inherently evil. In fact, a lot of the things that I had once thought would be absolutely bad (ie. hospital births or public schools) were really only terrifying to me because of my irrational fear. Sure bad things can and do happen in hospitals and schools, which is why I try to educate and prepare myself before I make a decision. But in the end, it is about building relationships. If you are always on the defensive you are going to see the devil in everyone's shadow. At times, it is good to remember that those we fear are only people; usually with good intentions, sometimes misguided, and sometimes making mistakes. But then, aren't we all just human?
For me, I choose to see those I might have feared as just that, humans capable of making mistakes. Not as someone with an ill intent, focused on somehow promoting an "agenda". We tend to like to vilify people like that, no? Even though I may disagree with them, I try to treat others with the respect and kindness that I would want to have them show me, knowing that neither one of us might be seeing the whole picture. But at no time do I allow myself to feel belittled or anything less than equal to them, nor do I allow anything to be done to my child without my consent. I know my rights and when I am being lied to.
Perhaps I am just blessed that this approach has worked for me thus far. I am sorry that you had such horrendous experiences with your OB and Ped. Forgive me if my earlier comments sounded like I was blaming the victim. My intention was not to place blame anywhere, but to offer up some tactical suggestions for anyone else should they ever find themselves in a similar situation. Thank you for your response. God Bless.
I disagree with what happened to this mother. But I want to point out that Hershey PA is four hours from state college where the Sandusky situation happened. Let's get our facts straight before we bash an entire state over one mans actions.
continue giving power to hospitals and the government is going to get worse for the citizens, it is very important to read the federal government's proposals and understand the reach of their rights of citizens very important in the case of hospitals where we are helpless, they should to force hospitals to provide legal support before call police in any case.is not the first time i hear something like this here in houston the storys make you cry ..sad but tru .. you know how many hysterectomy's "Doctors" do here in houston ..only because the patient have insurance ?? scary .. that happend before Obama.
Dumb on your part to not check facts on the location of Penn State. And to say that the people of Hershey "allowed" Jerry Sandusky to run free…WTF? Good story, lame that you discredited youself immediately.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I said "officials" and Hershey is close enough to Penn State to be considered the same area. I went to U Penn and have been through that area many times.
again, Hershey is no where remotely near happy valley.
U penn is in Philly also no where near either so this doesn't make you the expert on that. your clear misunderstanding of where these places are is down right rude to the folks from there.
Sarah Watne
I love it when people start calling names. It usually means they have no real argument, nothing thoughtful to say, so out comes the name-calling!!
Maybe the Sandusky thing didn't happen in Hershey, please give the author of this blog a break. My guess is that it was a difficult task to write this post, through tears and anger, and a few things might have gotten confused in doing so.
Regardless!! The truth is that this story, even if we don't have all the facts, is a warning to us parents to be very aware. Be aware of laws, of our rights, and stand strong. I believe that we can prevail if we stand strong!!
A Brinegar
agreed. Harsh language usually means it is not the whole story and is defensive.
Naynay, you need to wake up, you are ignorant if you think things won't get worse with Obamacare. Of course our gov't has something to do with this hospital acting like this. Didn't you see "social services", "shelter care", "the officer" mentioned? Did you see the hospital staff being prosecuted or anything like it?
This is so upsetting!
People, we need to pray!
What a horrible ordeal for the parents to endure. Thank you for sharing this story Sarah, I'm glad to see so many other thinking, outraged comments here. I've thought and thought about what I'd do if my husband and I were to have another baby. My first birth experience was in a hospital and I was still pretty unknowledgeable about vaccines and nutrition. If I were to do it again, I'd definitely have a home birth or go to a birthing center with people I trust.
THe first papargraph outrages me… having nothing to do with the story what-so-ever…and hershey, PA is about 3 hours away from Penn State. Please get your facts straight. This is a horrible thing, but do not point fingers where fingers should not be pointed.
What an outrage! Well I never…
Actually Hershey, PA is about 1 hour 50 minutes away from Penn State (According to google maps). Who knows, if you drive what most people out there do you might do the 99.7 miles in under an hour and 30 min. So, Puhhhhlease get your facts straight. Otherwise let's just throw the baby out with the bath water right? (pun intended just for you)
Find some more hairs to split
I agree with Lisa as well. I am from the Hershey area. Had both my children at Hershey Medical Center and would choose to go nowhere else. Perhaps some of you need to do research about the Medical Center…it is the Milton S. Hershey Medical Center…do you all even know who Milton Hershey is?! Do you know how the hospital gets funding? Do you know it is one of the top hospitals in the country? Do you realize as mentioned above, Sandusky isn't even from Hershey?! Really..this just goes to prove the lack of knowledge from the person writing this article.
It's all over the news. There is a lawsuit filed. It is documented. Not made up. Milton may be nobel, but there are plenty of others who work there or contracted to work with them who are NOT. Sorry.
Cascia Talbert (The Healthy Moms Magazine)
How awful! I hope they win their case.
Um, does anyone know if this actually happened this way? One guy reports it to try to raise money for his homeschool org, and all of a sudden it is a fact that a social worker took a baby away because of vaccine refusal? I doubt it. Before you all get your pitchforks and head to city hall, maybe you should get some facts from a reliable source.
Michael Farris is founder of the HSLDA, this was established to protect homeschooling parents from government deciding what is best for their childrens education. His latest passion is on preserving parental rights. HSLDA was formed on the basis that it is a parental right to choose how your child will be educated, and from that came the need for expansion just go on the parentalrights.org website to get a better understanding.
Jodi Ferris
@ Melissa. It actually happened this way.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Jodi, THANK YOU for commenting to let people know this outrage is true. I've gotten emails from others since posting this yesterday .. yours is unfortunately not an isolated incident. This is standard protocol it seems for social services when parents in the hospital refuse to go along with their "safety plan".
I am a Certified Nurse Midwife, and a former OB nurse of 12 years. This story is apalling, terrifying, but, unfortunately, not entirely rare… This is about soooo much more than just the social worker.
First, the staff at the hospital made assumptions about the "type" of people these were as soon as they arrived at the hospital via ambulance with what was likely considered "no" or "inadequate" prenatal care, since she was attended by a midwife and not a doctor for her prenatal care. From that moment on, their "care" (Using that word very loosely) was based on the assumption that these people were irresponsible, strange, and uneducated. This kind of bias is alive and well in the U.S.
The nursing staff felt they had more rights to that baby than the "irresponsible" parents. The doctor arrogantly presumed that the care of a midwife couldn't be acceptable, let alone good!
I honestly see bits of this all the time, just not so many instances of abuse all in one case…
Such a shame!
If the medical establishment would educate themselves on what the rest of the world is doing, i.e. having midwives attend normal, healthy preganancies and births, while having far better maternal and neonatal mortality rates than the U. S., and reserving hospitals and doctors for complications and high risk obstetrical cases, this country would be far better off, both medically and financially!
But, in our great country, the most important thing is that doctors remain on their pedestals, without question, and continue to use as many interventions as possible, in order to charge insurance companies and Medicaid as much as possible for healthy, normal women and babies.
I'm from New Zealand and feel so fortunate that midwives are the norm here and our health care is excellent (though waitlists exist for certain conditions) and is paid for through taxes. I believe birthing in New Zealand is one of the best in the world. Our large public hospital has birthing pools in their birthing rooms, yay. My local doctor follows the teachings of Weston Price and accepts our decision not to immunise. Sally Fallon just did a presentation here in Christchurch and I was so happy to meet her (lovely lady!) and listen to her presentation. I really can't believe what American's have to put up with courtesy of big companies and government. I'm sorry but 'the land of the free' just makes me laugh. How did the vision go so wrong?!
I made the decision to birth in New Zealand over the United Arab Emirates, where we resided during my pregnancy, as the care is so much better. Perhaps there are options for American's to travel to a nearby country offering better care? Just a thought. Sad that it should have to be considered though!
All the best to the couple and kicking the butts of the idiots who destroyed what should have been a joyful experience. Little Annie is lucky to have them as parents. XXX
Oh. My. Word. Here I sit with my 5-day old baby, a homeschooling mother of nine, OUTRAGED. I cannot even imagine having to "sleep" in a car in the parking lot after having just given birth. I am so angry at this blatant misuse of misappropriated power. I hope that social worker is "let go," and quickly.
What a terrible, terrible thing to do.
HOLY RED HERRING!!! Let's focus on the actual issue here, which is the mother and newborn being separated for no reason….not that Hershey, PA might have a sexual predator such as Jerry Sandusky. (…as does most of the rest of the world…sick, sick people out there!)
Mary Kate
This is so sad. It is supposed to be such a wonderful time in your life…when you give birth to your child. It is supposed to be a happy time to remember for when they grow up you can tell them what a GREAT day it was and all that happened. It brings tears to my eyes just feeling what true pain this Mother and Father had to go through.
This is exactly why I refused the chance to stop at 3 different hospitals when I knew my 2nd daughter would arrive in the car. (I was on my way to an independent midwifery clinic). I didn't want to be treated like a medical emergency, have my baby whisked away, and face potential allegations of child neglect due to my birthing choices and not vaccinating. This article got my blood pressure going…
I want to comment but don't even know what to say. My jaw was dropped for most of this post. Unbelievable…and yet not really. This is the future of our country if we continue to sit on the sidelines and I want to know what we can do collectively. I have heard of petitions started on change.org and having success as signatures are gathered but I don't even know what the petition would be. If someone else does…go for it and let's get this to the media!!!!!!! The media sadly holds a ton of power and finding just ONE reporter with a heart can make a huge difference in the case and support for this couple. But we cannot just sit here and let this happen and feel sad about the direction our country is going, we MUST be proactive!
This is horrific. I have a 3 mo old and a two year old. After becoming disgusted with the care at my ob/gyn's office, I transferred to breath of life birthing center in Largo, FL. I had an amazing natural birthing experience. I cried my eyes out when I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes with my second son because I had to see an ob again and deliver at a hospital. I was pressured into taking pitocin. It was ordered before the doc even saw me! The point I want to share here is that my son had jaundice and needed frequent testing via blood draws. They said he could stay in the hospital but refused to let me stay with him past 48 hours even though I was supposed to nurse every two hours to help him overcome the jaundice. The part that really upset me was how the nursing staff treated me when I asked if I could stay with my baby. They said this isn't a hotel! It was insane. I left with him and had to drive him to various labs around the county to have his little foot poked by inexperienced techs. I was delirious from lack a sleep and exposing my son to germs in public places including general hospitals when he was two and three days old. My husband had to take care of our two y.o. and manage our business. I was on my own and still in a lot of pain. Thankfully, we got through it and are doing well. I feel that by discharging us, either or both of us could have become sicker or injured.
I have a similar story with my son when he was born. It's a bit long, but
The hospital told us that they would take our son if we didn't consent to
Yet another spinal tap. It was a nightmare. The hospital claimed it had to
Speak for what was best for my baby because the baby. Couldnt speak for himself,
And by law the baby was in hospital custody and if we didn't conesent,
Social services would be called and the. Baby would. Be taken from us.
There has to be a line somewhere. Why did this happen to us and this family.
It shouldnt
jason and lisa
enter obamacare!! they decide who lives, dies and what treatment they will receive or not receive.. a 45 year old needing a heart transplant wont be as deserving as a 19 year old because the 19 year old has more years to contribute to the work force (tax dollars to pay).. we will be born, barely kept alive long enough to pay our dues to the system and when our health fails, we wont be allowed to be kept alive.. every aspect of our lives will be touched by this because the government will be able to regulate everything, passing it off as trying to keep overall costs down.. they will be "helping american families lower their medical costs.." it will all be sold to the people as cost driven and the people as a whole will suffer as a consequence..
really people, wake up.. WAKE UP!! we are so close to the point of no return!!
pissed off again,
-jason and lisa-
wow someone else blaming obama, weird.
jason and lisa
blame obama for obama care?? what nerve i must have…..
-jason and lisa-
I'm from Lancaster county pa, ive had all 3 babies at women and babies. Thanks for the warning to never go to Hershey! This is sad and down right disgusting. Hope the sue and win! Ill also never go to Hershey cause j have 2 friends that their newborns needed surgery shortly after birth and both died from complications from being put under. They were born a few months spar.
Good Lord! Thats terrible!
This is not the work of Obamacare or the government. This is the work of one bat shit crazy social worker and completely inept hospital staff of which there are millions around the country. Most hospital workers have NO IDEA what they are doing and most times DO NOT communicate with each other while the doctors/specialists/surgeons walk around flaunting their "authority" aka god complexes. Sue that stupid backwater, hillbilly hospital for everything they've got and STOP blaming the government.
You're right, it's not the world of government directly….yet….but regarding what is outlined in Obamacare it sounds freakishly similar to it's propositions. Just a small taste of what's to come.
I am reading more and more stories like this. It seems our govt and govt services have more rights to our children than we do. I think this is where parentalrights.org comes in.
Daniel Snyder
You anti-vaccine nutjobs really need to get over yourselves.
It's not even about being anti vaccine but it's about parental choice and technically the Hep B shot can be given along with the other vaccines at the first dr appointment anyways. No agency, hospital or individual has a right to put anything on or into your childs' body without YOUR consent as a parent, period. As long as the parent is coherent and able to make a decision, it is their right.
Daniel Snyder
I also reserve the right to believe that you're mentally unstable.
Based on what exactly??
HaHA, I guess we are all entitled to our beliefs aren't we? Though the ones that stand will be the ones that hold anecdotal evidence to back them up.
Not that we are great or anything, lots of room for improvement, but your friend is correct in a way. They are trying but still are a long ways off, just a wee bit better IMHO, depending where you are in Canada. What helps I think is that we have universal health coverage (which is slowly shrinking), so we don't have to personally answer to private health coverage as in the States, and beg, for now….for now….for now. A system based on disease maintenance instead of disease prevention will always end up in the red. This is happening here right and it will bankrupt the system soon. No one wants to see or understand this.
I apologize, this was meant for another post, somehow it ended up here…so sorry.
but since i am here: @daniel snider, this is not a vaccination issue. So I don't understand from where your query comes. If you are pro vaccine, you should not be on this blog, as you will meet up with some pretty convicted moms, just as you are and the issue will go no where , as it never does. One is either for or against and neither side is wrong according to their beliefs, because really, one only assumes based on specific studies that vaccines work – we don't really know for sure.
Aside from this all, to call people posting, without really knowing their vaccine position, as NUT JOBS is highly offensive, assuming and inappropriate on a public board. You have your trust and belief and others have theirs. Some chooses to vaccinate, others don't. I chose not to, but would never tell anyone else not to no more than I would tell them to change their religious beliefs. The main concept of the original article has nothing to do with vaccinations. Fortunately I don't live in the U.S . where routine Hep B vacs seem to be the standard of care at birth whether or not one is at risk. Please find someone else's blog upon which to comment and keep you offensive remarks to yourself. There is way too much valuable information on this blog that with which the average person can inform him self that potentially makes up any Nut Job comments as you put it. You need a seriously well cooked bone broth ………..
Daniel it's those like yourself that are the true nutjobs that you believe 'government' has your best interests in mind and that putting drugs into a child w/o permission is fine. Dr. Mengele would be proud of your ignorance and sheep behavior for if you were told you were going into a shower in a death camp you'd want to be first in line. Good luck with living your life as a useful idiot.
Anastasia @ Eco-Babyz
This happens every day folks! Most parents do not stand their ground though and give in based on fear (if I was threatened with child being taken away I might have given in too). We also refused both, thankfully we were prepared and had all the laws cited in the waiver that we wrote ourselves. We also had a backup document to make the staff sign that stated they are liable for all side effects if they vaccinate against our will (they of course would not sign that and would hopefully back off). My labor nurse was the only one there that really encouraged us, said she rarely meets parents who question these routine procedures, and that she doesn't vaccinate her kids either.
Ok, first of all, has anyone asked where this story came from? Its completely outrageous.
For starters – Hersey PA is NO WHERE NEAR the Jerry Sandusky trail WTH? Why is that even brought up. Please, get your facts straight.
Second – what do we know about parents? What is the source of this story? Hearsay?
Hersey medical center is highly regarded, FYI. And its totally appropriate to question hep B and vit K, and this sounds like a really one sided story.
these seems like some poor reporting of facts here, very disappointing.
Charlene Connell
You think this doesn't happen?? The court document is linked here in the comments. This is not the first time that I have heard of this. This is the first time I have heard parents stood their ground. All others caved and gave their children vit K or hep shots to not have their kids taken away. Wake up. This happens. I had CPS called on me for missing the bus stop once. I was 3 min late. Home schoolers are discriminated against by government workers all the time.
Jodi Ferris
While I'm not sure what the source of the story was for this particular blog article, the media attention is because of the federal civil rights lawsuit that we filed.
The Patriot News in Harrisburg has this on their website:
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
You go Jodi. Rock the house for all of us outraged parents! We are behind you 100%.
glad you finally decided to reply though, Sarah. Don't worry about all the people from Hershey you offended by you inaccurate facts comparing Jerry Sandusky to this event.
Terrible story. Is there an original source for this story? I'm from the central Pennsylvania area and Hershey Medical Center is highly respected. I have a hard time believing some of this to be true.
Also, Sandusky is not from Hershey. He's from State College which is why I question your credibility.
Here are some sources…
She said he was from the same area, which is relative.
Jodi Ferris
Jackie, the Patriot News has this on their webiste at http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/03/williamstown_couple_sues_penn.html.
Tiffany M
This is maddening. However, its not new. Hospital staff can be down right cynical of your choices, be they your rights. When my daughter was four and had the flu, she became dehydrated, and needed IV fluids to endure the end of the virus. She was taken to the local hospital and after arriving, I was "put under the gun" so to speak about vax's. We dont vaccinate at all…never have. One doctor that was seeing us ran the riot act on my husband and I. She demanded that I vaccinate there..while my child was sick. HOW STUPID! Of course I tried to be nice, and explain my reasoning. To no avail! That doctor called Child Services, and they did follow through with calling me, and I invited them to come visit my house. The lady on the phone from Child Services laughed and said, she had no intentions of doing anything, that I was fully within my rights, and she just was required to notify me of the complaint made. I then wrote a letter, and called and talked to the Board of the hospital requesting an apology from the doctor who caused the commotion. He was more than apologetic, and I did receive an apology from the snotty doctor!
BTW, I don't recall it was in Hershey. I recall it was in STATE COLLEGE!
Here Lisa… here is the dialogue you've been waiting and typing for over and over! (Notice we had to be so careful to use a word like "typing" here, because if we used something like "screaming," that wouldn't be precise enough and would give another off base focal point for any poor anticipated response for rebuttal and further misdirection). You presumably keep repeating the same insignificant points because most people have seen through your nonsensical blabber and not bothered to respond to you.
Do you think if your attempt to discredit Sarah was successful it would turn the horrific experience the Farris' face(d) into fiction? I love the diversion tactics Lisa; really, aside from confirming your ridiculousness, they are quite humorous. So, more for the sake of my entertainment (secondarily the dialogue you desire) lets begin…
Sarah actually wrote (UPPERCASE added for emphasis), "…officials allow A serial child molester LIKE Jerry Sandusky, former Penn State assistant football coach, to go free for decades and continue to abuse children unfortunate enough to come across his lecherous path…".
So, Sarah said A serial child molester LIKE Jerry Sandusky. She didn't say that it was Sandusky, therefore she isn't wrong. First, you'll need to make sure there are no molesters in Hershey, PA then start your diatribe.
Also, your self-deduction of, "She is factually wrong, which means a lot of the rest of the story could be factually wrong as well" is laughable. She didn't claim to write the story? It really happened! Quite a weak attempt at discrediting her as if her relation of a story is the real issue here. Maybe confirm that she didn't just cut and copy the story from a website LIKE http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/pa/201203270.asp that was referenced by another reader. Oh no! Hershey, PA is over 95 miles away from STATE COLLEGE! STOP THE PRESS! (BLOG maybe? whatever – since everyone deems blogs as "journalism" anyway. Pshaw)!
HA HA!, Then your partner in propaganda (you agree with) types up her opinion and panders, "What you can take seriously is that Hershey Medical School/Hospital did the major research on the HPV vaccine (Gardisil) and they were the first to announce that it would prevent Cervical Cancer." Again, HA HAAAA! Precisely! What a disgrace. They flopped there too, now they want to widen their market and give Gardisil to little boys?!?! Silly doctors, boys don't have a cervix! But wait wait… it'll help girls though cause the boys will pass the benefits to the girls…uh – or something. Sure they will. Why don't they just get to it and push to vaccinate every single-celled organism, since we evolved from those too, right? LOL!
Lastly, just curious, are you claiming that the government has absolutely no say in anything Penn State University does? Cause sadly, if they regulate anything the university does they are technically controlled by government. (TOUCHÉ! may be the proper response here. What, I'm not splitting hairs am I?)
Oh, be sure to find any mis-punctuated sentence and spin it to discredit that the English language was used to write these paragraphs. Final question, your last name isn't Sandusky is it? (That might help us start to make some sense of your off point responses to the real issue above)
Vincini, thank you, I could not have said it better myself.
You both misunderstood… and I don't even know Lisa, but when someone starts pointing fingers at a whole state for one hospital's misdeeds, that is out of line. It's like saying the whole state of Florida is guilty of manslaughter for the shooting of that boy. The two stories are totally separate. And I was saying that the hospital is a big advocate for vaccination… so I can see where the nurses might be pushy with the mothers to vaccinate their babies. My father-in-law made a whole career out of medical malpractice. It goes on daily. Don't be surprised and naive.
that boy's name is trayvon.
Your whole post here is kicked off by this: Hershey, Pennsylvania, if you recall, is the same place where officials allow a serial child molester like Jerry Sandusky, former Penn State assistant football coach, to go free for decades and continue to abuse children unfortunate enough to come across his lecherous path while a mother who gives birth in a government hospital has her baby taken away for questioning whether vaccination with Hep B is truly necessary.
That's a lie. If you can't get that straight, what else have you misled people about this story? Very sad you would even put it on the internet with your facts all screwed up. That's why "journalism" is in the toilet….because people don't even research their facts.
Lisa why do you keep trying to get away from the main point? The outrage is not on Jerry anymore. Would you have any respect for this article if the Jerry S point had been taken out? You are a vaccination proponent and out there to bash anyone against them, we tend to forget liberty until ours our taken away.
About the Vitamin K shot – 1.8/100,000 babies who do not receive the shot die from intracranial bleeding. It's a low number but a real number and the shot doesn't have many serious contraindications so that's why it's routinely given.
The part that confused me about the Hep B vaccine is that she requested to be tested for Hep B. If you had Hep B, you wouldn't need the vaccine, the vaccine is for prevention.
This just tells me that there really needs to be more open communication between doctors and patients. This is a horrible story and I'm so sad that it happened. I guess the moral is find an OB you trust and don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't refuse medications just because you feel like it, ask first why they are given and make sure you understand the risks/benefits of refusing them.
If the mom or dad was hep b positive, there is a slight chance that baby would come in contact with the blood, which would be a potential reason for baby to get the vax.
I've had 5 hospital births in 3 hospitals and no vit K – this isn't done in our area. And testing before the Hep B vax is offered is routine. Some "routine" things are also very regionally based.
What a lot of people may not fully know or understand is that the Vitamin K shots given to infants are 1,000 times the recommended amount. Do we really want to overstimulate an infants system with a shot that isn't really necessary. Yes, some infants aren't born with enough, but there are other ways besides giving such a high dosage in one shot. A mother can choose to give an oral supplement or can even just supplement her own diet to be sure the newborn gets the proper amount of Vitamin K.
As to the Hep B, why would we want to give our newborns a shot for a STD? I can see perhaps if the mother has already been diagnosed as being a carrier…but even then, the likelihood of a newborn contracting Heb B is still low.
Just as an FYI…my sources come from 30+ years of experience in the OB/GYN & Midwifery field.
Thanks for sharing this information. I can only imagine what these parents must have gone through, and am so thankful they finally got their child back.
As to the comment about leaving the country – my question would be, "And go where?" As screwed up as things are, we've still got it better than a lot of people on the planet. I'd rather try and right wrongs like this one and fix the country we have, as difficult as that may be. We need to keep speaking up and working to make a difference, to reinstate personally responsibility instead of state responsibility. A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have.
jason and lisa
love the last line of that laurie..
-jason and lisa-
Jerry Sandusky is from State College … not Hershey. Get your facts straight before making statements. A little Google search would have shown you that.
Adrienne @ Whole New Mom
That's what I was thinking.
My heart was beating so fast while I read this… thank goodness this little girl is back with her parents!! I was fortunate to have 2 homebirths and so far I've gotten no flack for not vaxxing my 2 boys. I hope that continues….
Nowadays even my DH admits that the government can do what it wants, when it wants.. he used to think it was all in my head or crazy conspiracy theories. He knows better now.
There is zero local coverage of this story. I can't find anything other than other blogs with links to the same story. This is very strange – Either it's so new that the story hasn't broken, or it's been archived, or it's a fabrication, or it's being hushed for a reason.
It's not fabricated: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/pennsylvania/pamdce/1:2012cv00442/88588/
Right, I didn't really think it was, I was just saying that was one option. I just think there would be SOMETHING about it in the local news – even if just a quick blurb. Which is why I'm leaning towards it being hushed. And if that's the case, we have to be prepared to do something about it. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I tend to get extremely defensive when parenting and politics get crossed.
and thanks for the link, Christine! I was searching everywhere and starting to go a bit crazy while looking.
sandra lee
do you mean to write that she was injected with Pitocyn? not Oxytocin?
Another error? Wha-? Like … no way!
Lisa you have problems with other people having an opinion differrent than your own. And that is exactly why this story took place.
Pitocin is the name of the drug with synthetic oxytocin, so they can be used interchangeably and have seen that many times.
um…. they are the same thing.
I'm glad a couple other people from PA spoke up! It makes it hard to believe anything you write when you state false facts on here about Hershey, PA… who would put this story with Jerry Sandusky? That is too far a stretch to take seriously. What you can take seriously is that Hershey Medical School/Hospital did the major research on the HPV vaccine (Gardisil) and they were the first to announce that it would prevent Cervical Cancer. We have lots of doctors in the area associated with this school and in their eyes it can do no wrong. Secondly, aren't there patient advocates in the hospitals? I'm sure there are! She should have asked for one. I have a feeling we aren't getting all the facts here. I'm not saying the hospital didn't act out of line, but this comes across as more gossipy than factual.
Thank you! Amen!
Tamara Slack
I honestly can't even type, I am so outraged! I will come back with clearer thoughts later, but for now, I am getting this blog post out to as many people as I can…. I hope others are too. Use twitter, facebook, email, repost on your blogs, etc.
Insanity! Makes me think of the times of old when gov't killed babies in Moses' day. We're getting there, little by little, we are getting there.
Tamara Slack
I am SO OUTRAGED! That social worker deserves to be stripped of whatever license she has that has led her to feel so drunk with power. I absolutely cannot imagine being Jodi in this situation. She is clearly a strong, informed woman who is going to make an excellent mother to little Annie – but the ignorance exhibited by this social worker and the hospital staff is truly astounding. Thank you for directing people to the Homeschool Freedom Fund. I used to work in social work, and there are so many children in dire and dangerous home situations, I just cannot believe the state would waste their time going after a family who is not breaking the law, but simply doing something that MANY other parents (and even doctors!) have deemed the wisest decision after educating themselves about vaccines! What a colossal waste of everyone's time and tax money.
Hershey Med is a fantastic hospital – for when you're very sick. If I was severely ill or injured, it's the first place I'd go. But it would be the last place I would go to have a baby – because they run a tight ship, and have very strict protocol in order to efficiently cover all the emergencies they deal with. This insane story is not indicative of PA as a whole, and definitely does not reflect the amazing care I've received from my local OB/CNMs. I am so sorry this family is going through this and hope their pain will inspire an overhaul of the system.
Hershey Medical is not a government facility. It is a non-profit hospital and research facility funded by Penn State. Hershey is not where Sandusky is from, nor is it where molestation of children took place. That would be Centre County PA, namely, State College, PA.
Stanley Fishman
Penn State is a state university, controlled by the government. If Penn State funds Hershey, then Penn State controls Hershey. And the government owns Penn State. Sounds like a government facility to me.
Um…that reply makes no sense. Penn State University is not controlled by the government…Do you guys pull this stuff out of your butts? No wonder people are so inclined to think those who don't support vaccines (me included) are NUTS. Thanks a lot for making it obvious that you just make random statements that make no sense. And the point of what the person was saying was that she said hershey was where the sex scandal took place and it wasn't. She is factually wrong, which means a lot of the rest of the story could be factually wrong as well.
I am with Lisa on this one.
Stanley, I do agree with you. If you follow the money trail, you will find that hospitals, most medical staff, pharmaceutical companies and big government are all working together. Rarely do you find one of these working for the good of the patient/customer/citizen…It is the bottom line that drives everything, except those who still believe that everyone should have the freedom to research and CHOOSE for themselves. Having said that, I am so encouraged that I see many of my peers in medicine starting to say that they are willing to look deeper than what mainstream has taught them! When I went to the Weston Price seminar in Dallas last November, I saw doctors, nurses, scientists, pharmacists, anesthesists, etc. speaking up and saying that they don't like what they are seeing and they want an unbiased study on what has never before been questioned!! Yeah! So, speak up and tell people around you! It makes a difference! My heartfelt prayers and sympathy to this poor family for the hell that that hospital put them through!! God bless and protect them from this oppressive evil!
Yes there is room for absolute outrage here but then there must be action taken. This family needs help suing this hospital and perhaps the state. If this starts happening at the court level then maybe there will be some protection. The current health care legislation is forcing US citizens to adhere to medical practices whether we believe in them or not. It isn't right.
And this is why we let our daughter get vax against our better judgement….
We'd planned on birthing at a free-standing birth center. Ended up with c-section because of my giant (10 lb!) breech baby (that would be different if I knew then what I knew now). They gave our daughter a glucose IV, saying her blood sugar was too low because I'd had gestational diabetes–puh-leese–but didn't bring her to me to nurse!! We had expressed our concern about the IV and the HOURLY heel sticks to which they threatened to call child protection and threw my parents out of the room. They vax our daughter without consent, but we said nothing because we were already being threatened. This is so wrong!!! These are OUR children! They have no right to do such things!!! It makes my blood boil!
Melynda Hoffman
I don't trust HSLDA anymore than I trust the ppl that took her baby from her.
Adrienne @ Whole New Mom
Why not?
Why post something without backup or reason?
Charlene Connell
Interesting. They fight for the legality of homeschooling and are only socially active on fourth amendment rights and parental rights. They may have other values, but their legal action is all involved in issues related to home schooling (think daytime curfews, extended school attendance requirements, laws regarding home school requirements). Beyond that, when they think that a violation of parental or fourth amendment rights could set a precedent that will negatively impact home schooling families, they will take that up too. They (the leaders of the organization) may be, for example, pro-life, but they do not spend any money fighting that issue in courts or advocating it in the legislative process. It is a single issue organization. They personally helped me navigate a visit from CPS when a vengeful uncle called to report me because of issues involving my father's heart attack. Without them, I might have had to sign some papers with CPS and gone through their hoops (including public school for my kids) just to keep my children.
Here is a group working to protect parent's rights to raise their kids as they choose: http://www.parentalrights.org/. I have read many other similar stories about government trampling upon parents. There are many who feel children belong to the State, and act accordingly.
We homebirth, homeschool, and don't vax. Those are our choices as free citizens. Tragically, our rights have been eroded to the point that the unthinkable sometimes happens, parents losing their kids by crossing paths with a Statist, zealously determined to act in the :best interests of the child."
Natural Healthy Concepts
Thanks so much for posting this, Jill, we are likewise outraged. Parents who choose more holistic approaches to parenting are so protective of their children, being mindful of everything that goes in their children's bodies and yet they are treated like terrible criminals. This is a travesty of justice and we fear it will only get worse.
Have them contact Rick Santorum. Isn't he the guy who wants to help his PA voters so they'll support him? Oh, I forgot – he's FOR big goverment and all of its interventionistic ways. Sorry, bad idea.
I agree with the other poster who said we need Ron Paul. We certainly do for many reasons, but even Ron Paul is for vaccinations. I'm afraid in our society we will have to become accustomed to the idea of our children receiving upwards of 36 vaccinations before they start school. Is this a GD perverse society or what?
And when we're in the hospital ourselves we also have no choices about our own care because "they know better" in all of their arrogance – as if we know nothing about our own bodies. Once Obozocare is instituted, all of our medical rights will be gone (as if we have any now, as you can well see by the above story). This is why I don't ever want insurance, nor do I want to have to be forced to buy it. Between the Patriot Act, NDAA and now the Obozocare in 2014, we're done for as far as human rights go. Milton Friedman was right – we are numbers on a chart as far as the gov't is concerned, and reducing those numbers is their goal. Of course nowadays, reducing those numbers will only apply to the 99%, never the 1%.
Having universal health care will not be the cause of having your choices taken away. We have this in Canada and although I often make decisions that medical professionals disagree with (e.g. vaccinations), they accept the decisions and perform what is asked of them. If you find yourself being forced or coerced into making medical decisions that are against your better judgement, it won't be because of universal health care, the people to blame are big pharma who profit from all of the unnecessary treatments.
+1 Megan. I've never had 'the government' make any medical decisions for me.
At least Ron Paul is for making our own choices. Yes, he is for vaccines, and he is a Christian, and he personally is against gay marriage, etc. etc. etc. BUT he understands that not everyone shares his views and promotes others making their own informed decisions, rather than just doing things the same as everyone else because "that's how it's done". You don't have to agree with something to be supportive of the choices. THAT'S what I love about him.
Adrienne @ Whole New Mom
Just to give food for thought to Paul supporters, Romney is for smaller government too. The media wants you to think he's such a big gov't person w/ Romneycare and all that but the conservatives were all for Romneycare when it went in to place. A rep from Heritage Foundation helped start it. I've been doing a lot of reading on him and I would like for Paul supporters to give him another look and see that his record is much more along the small gov't lines than Santorum.
Helen T.
I've lived in France for over 25 years. Believe me: no Americans I know here are thinking of going back. I would love to retire in the states, but facing diminishing social programs: what's going to be left of Medicare even? In 'socialist' countries, we appreciate our healthcare plus I'm not spending my time fighting the insurance companies, either. Ask Canadians if they would trade their health coverage for the 'freedom' of losing a home because you need to pay medical bills.
You're confusing government with corporatism. We have NO GOVERNMENT: we have a corporate agenda running the country: lobbiests – the best government you can buy! That's why the current government in Washington is not run with you in mind……it's been corrupted.
And nowhere, NOWHERE does anybody address cost controls in healthcare. And certainly not the Obamacare bill that was written by the insurance companies – the very ones that should be sideline in this process.
I was in a heart clinic in the Paris area a couple of years ago. I was in emergency then intensive care all night being monitored. The next few days I had tests, and medicines. Add the cost in for doctors and a private room. Quess what this ALL came to? Less than the equivalent of FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS! Yes, 4 thousand…..my husband's insurance paid for the private room – the French state picked up the rest.
While those in American continue to trumpet individualism…….and seem not to notice that making healthcare a commodity leaves many without access to decent healthcare and all the drama and pain that entails. Keep in mind that some other places in the world think it's best to slice the pie differently.
Helen T.
I've lived in France for over 25 years. Believe me: no Americans I know here are thinking of going back. I would love to retire in the states, but facing diminishing social programs: what's going to be left of Medicare even? In 'socialist' countries, we appreciate our healthcare plus I don't have to be spending my time fighting the insurance companies, either. Ask Canadians if they would trade their health coverage for the 'freedom' of losing a home because you have to pay for a medical bill.
You're confusing government with corporatism. We have NO GOVERNMENT: we have a corporate agenda running the country: lobbiests – it's the best government you can buy! That's why it's not run with you in mind……it's been corrupted.
And nowhere, NOWHERE does anybody address cost controls. And certainly not the Obamacare bill that was written by the insurance companies – the very ones that should be sideline in this process.
I was in a heart clinic in the Paris area a couple of years ago. I was in emergency then intensive care all night being monitored. The next few days I had tests, and medicines. Add the cost in for doctors and a private room. Quess what this ALL came to? Less than the equivalent of FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS! Yes, 4 thousand…..my husband's insurance paid for the private room, and the French state picked up the rest.
While those in American continue to trumpet individualism…….they seem not to notice making medical care a commodity has social costs that far outway any 'profit'
Some countries still understand that you, your family and neighbors having access to healthcare has more value than anything for profit.
Yes, Ron Paul is so dedicated to personal freedoms. Unless you're a pregnant woman, that is. Then everyone else should decide what's best for you to do with your body. . . .
Pretty sure if you are pregnant you ALREADY MADE THE DECISION what to do with your body!
Ron Paul is against abortion. But from everything I have heard about him he is also against it being outlawed on a federal level and doesn't comment on how he feels about the legality of it at lower levels.
jason and lisa
agree sally.. great to see you posting too!! i get annoyed when we never hear questions about food freedoms and the federal reserve ever being asked at these debates.. also, cant help but notice how the camra and questions just seem to avoid ron paul at all costs!! do the math on this one, if the media creates a figure, then the media can destroy that figure.. ron paul doesnt get the attention because the media is doing everything in its power to keep him from gaining ground yet he has a die hard following that he has developed by his own hard work and willingness to point the finger at the "bad guy."
-jason and lisa-
Christa Kersey
I am completely disgusted by the treatment of this family. I too am from PA and I praise the Lord that I haven't had to deal with things like this. I do have a pediatrician who is a bully, but we won't be going to his practice anymore. It's absolutely ridiculous.
I just wanted to clarify that not everywhere in PA is like this, and Hershey is also not where the whole Jerry Sandusky thing happened, it's about 2 hours away. The two things aren't even related, and every area of the country has their issues. I don't think it's fair to compare the two, though I think both are completely disgusting and absolutely wrong. But it made my area look awful, and that really isn't fair to all of the good, honest people who live here to be judged by the actions of a handful of morons.
Jill from First Comes Health
I'm so glad you posted this comment! It is exactly what I wanted to say, but you did so much more eloquently. Thank you!
NYC Mom
Thank you. I grew up in Hershey, and have never been to Penn State where they play football. The Hershey Medical Center is affiliated with Penn State, but that is kind of irrelevant to what the doctors, nurses and social worker did to these people. Both scandals are horrifying and wrong, and the people in control should be punished greatly. Hershey itself is a lovely small town and should not be made to sound like a place where evil is being bred.
This is also being taken very seriously by HSLDA …
I am outraged. I live within 40 minutes of Hershey and I've heard nothing of this story on local news. I don't watch much local news so I checked two local news website and I see nothing with their names.
How is this not covered!? (rhetorical – i know why it's not covered)
Here is a link to the court docket: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/pennsylvania/pamdce/1:2012cv00442/88588/
Jodi Ferris
Danielle, keep watching. It will be on the local news soon enough.
You're all welcome to come to Canada We may have universal health care, but I always have a say in what happens with my kids.
This is so true. All of my 8 children were born in the hospital with no needles, i.v.'s etc. My only bad experience was an obgy who was on a tight schedule who wanted to induce #6 as i was not progressing quickly enough for her. My deliveries were usually less than an hour. In this case, the kid was holding tight. She became pretty upset when i refused after being admitted five hrs before. After the delivery six hours later, she pulled out this huge needle. When I asked her what it was she told me "listen, you have had it your way til now, this you have no say over" and stuck the vit K shot in my thigh….Needless to say, I banned her from my room. Up here in Canada, they are pretty good about respecting the right of the patient. I guess this particular doc had her own issues…..and I informed every mom to be I knew about her.
Adrienne @ Whole New Mom
This is an isolated incident here. Canada is much further down the road towards this mess in all arenas. Supplements have been removed from the shelves and there was recently a move to prevent homeschoolers from being able to teach kids their own values. Typically, Canada's move towards socialism and left precedes ours by a few or more steps/
I think that it is very common in Canada to pay for "insurance" for better care, a better room, an epidural if wanted. The government pays only for the most basic care, not for all healthcare. I know many Canadians and they all have a bone to pick somewhere with the healthcare system.
I find Canada being much easier and much more open-minded in many areas actually, with more inclination towards human rights than US has. It started becoming more similar to US after 2006 with Harper's government, yet still old Canadian values hold.
jason and lisa
i thought americans couldnt move to canada??
-jason and lisa-
I have heard some friends from CAnada shocked at how behind we are here in terms of medical care as well. Had a discussion recently with one about how our hospitals still serve all this crap food after heart attacks and hold to the idea of no fats but frosted flakes and skim milk for breakfast and white toast are ok. She was surprised and said you do not see that there. True?
Our medical system is faulted and too influenced by big Pharma, etc, but I have family who lived under "universal" healthcare/socialized medicine and they are begging the USA to NOT go that route.
We were in a very similar situation. There were no grounds really and our kids had to go stay with a friend. We opted to stay at the friend's house with our kids. Then 2 days later when we were to take the kids back into our custody so to speak our case worker was in another state 3 states away and it would just have to wait. We didn't wait. We called an attorney and he gave us some basic info with no charge. We took it to her office and my husband sat there and said he wouldn't leave until someone talks to him. We got our kids back that afternoon. It was a nightmare to say the least, but taught me that YES the govt is trying to do what they want with whom ever they want.
We were a home school family at the time and still are. They questioned my then 5 year old and 3 year old why they weren't in school. So irritating and frustrating to just think of and I can only imagine the pain and possible effects that it has caused this family.
A 5 year old and a 3 year old doesn't need to be in school. Why would they even ask them that? You're supposed to enroll or home school children by the age of 6. Of course most start kindergarden by 5. Kids don't have to go to kindergarden, they can start 1st grade at 6 without kindergarden. When my mom and dad were kids there was no such thing as kindergarden, you started school at age 6. Kindergarden started after WWll.
I was just speechless, outraged after reading this from HSLDA this morning. Because of stories like this, we were scared to have our baby in a hospital last August. Thankfully, our hospital didn't even offer the HepB to newborn's unless mom was positive and we were able to decline everything we wanted to w/ minimal harassment. I cannot imagine being in this mom's shoes!! What a way to beat a mom into compliance, take away her newborn! I hate what is happening to our country! On a side note: We watched the film Monumental last night – what an eye opener! The Pilgrims and our Forefathers were not religious passivists! They fought for their freedoms and here we are just letting them slip away…
Made me cry…. so so sad for them to have to go through that.
Shannon Owens
Me too.
Yes, I receive emails from Homeschool Legal Defense Association and belonged when I homeschooled. They are a wonderful group and everyone who can should support them.
This is good to get out so people can see what is going on-and fight it!
After reading outrageous news like this one among many others I keep wondering … Has anyone ever considered moving out of this country? I know I won't resolve the problems, but at least could alleviate your own problems… No offense to anybody.
I have wondered that myself. My husband and I are considering a move to Alaska…not sure if that will help or not but its as far out there as you can get without leaving the country.
Yes, I have thought about it. Where can I go where govt will leave me alone?
This type of thing happened to us when my son was born into the NICU. Parents don't realize that when a baby is born early, the hospital gets to decide what is medically necessary. They don't require your consent, although it leaves them open to liability if they don't get it. We were able to put a stay on supplementing my breast milk because we questioned their faulty statistics and they could not quantify what the nutritional content was of my milk. But we were still threatened with CPS if our son did not gain weight by their charts, supplied by Nestle. He is now a healthy 2 1/2 year old, meeting and exceeding all milestones, and has since he was 3 months old.
We are leaving this country in 2016 because the progression of government intervention is apparent. I am sure by the time my children are 15 there will be a draft, because of the need for our military industrial complex. We cannot stay in this country any more. We are smart, educated entrepreneurs that create jobs, but the amount of oversight for every action we take is appalling. I encourage other's to do the same. This country will be left to the masses of corporate worship.
jason and lisa
just wondering lee.. where are you guys looking??
-jason and lisa-
@ Lee. Do you have any place in mind?
Of course the chart was supplied by Nestle, since it's been a supplier of formula since the 70's. I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm 47, and I remember in the early 80's, when it seemed like the world was against the company and many organizations boycotted. I HATE Nestle, because of its reprehensible, despicable marketing practices in underdeveloped countries. It pushes the use of formula rather than breast milk. I don't know if they still do it, but it used to employ "Formula Nurses," who would dress in white and "teach" mothers in these countries how to use its product. The trouble with that? Not only is it deceptive, but the mothers couldn't afford to buy more formula, but by then their milk had dried up. Many mothers would also water it down, trying to conserve it, resulting in many cases of death and malnourishment. Talk about corporate evil!!! I'm not sure as to the extent that it still practices this, but I still hate the company for its greed.
Amen to that.
No, now Nestle is engaged in stealing water and selling it overseas. They think everyone should have to pay for water.
jason and lisa
eldrito.. we have looked yes.. problem is, where do you go?? at least in this country we still have the illusion of freedom.. so many places don't even have that.. i promise you, a third world country isn't a walk in the park.. it almost makes me want to throw away everything and move up in the hills and live off of the land..
pioneers we are,
-jason and lisa-
@ Jason and Lisa. The option DON'T have to be a third world country (although its not excluded), but I'm sure there should be some developed countries in Europe for example where many "illegal food" are allowed and Monsanto hasn't reached their evil hands and health care system is not bad. I rather deal with new language or culture than having the government/authorities/hospitals decide for my family.
I've heard Austria is nice. As far as real food living…not sure on government involvement though.
jason and lisa
true.. not sure what the laws are about us moving here but we have looked at denmark.. they love their dairy and saturated fat (although they now tax for it) but it is also the happiest rated country according to a recent poll.. actually, i think a few places in the netherlands are like this..
-jason and lisa-
Jason and Lisa,
Hubby used to live in Holland, and keeps trying to get me to move there. He has family in Holland and our 24 yr old son recently moved back there. The taxes are quite high, but everything is socialized and paid for. The Dutch are very open, friendly and are proud of their English skills, so there's not the "attitude" that exists like in some European countries. The Dutch lifestyle is very, very simple, however, so if that's something you're after, you'd probably like it. Hubby says we need to go over and open a cafe, since I love to garden, bake and cook. I also have an online boutique, so he says we'd be very successful. lol.. My problem is that I can't stand the thought of leaving everything and everyone I know.
jason and lisa
the reason i mentioned the third world countries was i think there only 3 countries in the world right now that dont have some form of central bank that is controlled by the central banking elite.. ie federal reserve.. every country has one its just called something different in every country.. but again, the same group that controlls everything taking place in this country has their hand in just about every pot around the world and the very few countries that may not be under their tight grip, you wouldnt want to live anyway..
-jason and lisa-
Beth Donovan
If you think it is bad now, wait until Obamacare is completely instituted. We will have no control over what the government can decide to do to our bodies or our children's at that point.
Beth, I'm curious why you say that. This is the second time in the comments it's mentioned with no rational. Is there something factual and in the law that gives the government control of health choices or is this more just a fear that by extending the power of the federal government to require health insurance is opening the door for the federal government to require other things? I'm geniunely curious to understand your position and not looking to debate anything.
I certainly cannot speak for Beth, but I think the issue with Obamacare is that it requires every individual to purchase a private company's product (insurance) regardless of whether they want to or not. And of course, many families who are forced to spend their hard-earned money on expensive insurance will not have any money left over to pursue alternative healing methods, or even to purchase high quality food. The justification for this is that it is for the public good for everyone to be insured. If Obamacare is upheld, surely you can see how that could lead to mandatory vaccine laws. After all, that's "for the public good" too, right? Or how about a tax on saturated fat or cholesterol? Both of those substances are seen as the cause of epidemic health crises by a large percentage of the population. Regardless of whether you think people should have insurance or not, Obamacare is a slippery slope that will lead to the further erosion of our personal liberties.
Or what's left of them. After all, Obama now has the legal authority to kill American citizens with no due process. I am shocked at how many people have no awareness of the fact that he signed such a policy into law.
jason and lisa
right you are laurel… yes, taxes on everything healthy for you and of course, vaccines would become law.. this would all be passed off to the american people as "trying to keep overall costs down by helping to make americans healthier..and happier.. (said in my best obama voice).." just imagine a beautiful country of colorless, pale, pasty, weak, sick, soy fed, non confrontational tax paying americans..its the governments dream..
-jason and lisa-
change that to genetically modified soy….
And did you hear he just signed an Executive Order to essentially take all food, water, agriculture, energy (solar panels, etc), medicine, EVERYTHING in a "declared emergency" situation, which could be anything. The media virtually ignored it, and most Americans have no clue! We are in real serious times.
Ron Paul 2012 indeed! But they're trying their best not to let that happen.
Yep…that combined with the NDAA, and all they need is the perfectly designed crisis to take control of everything…including us. No resistance. And, what ticks me off the most is that the Congress that passed the NDAA included GOP/Tea Party. Like, don't they see what his goals are?
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
While I agree that there is an enormous trend of our civil liberties being diminished, I suspect that even if states do attempt to mandate vaccines, a religious exemption will always exist. I have witnessed Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions–and their right to refuse is respected, even when it means the patient will die.
I am curious about the endorsement for Ron Paul above. Although I am in favor of his stance on food freedom, I am not sure his plans for medicine align with an enforcement of civil liberties. On his campaign page he describes a system under which doctors cannot be sued for malpractice. He notes that patients will have the option to buy "unforeseen outcomes" insurance prior to having a medical procedure or surgery if they are worried about being compensated for any injuries resulting from the procedure or surgery. Perhaps his past career as an OB is figuring into his stance on medical malpractice–OB's are among the most often sued specialists. However, his proposed system does not seem to be one under which doctors would be motivated to do their best work. This worries me!
Also there's the fact that Ron Paul is anti-choice, so clearly his respect for freedom from government intrusion into personal medical decisions only goes so far. . . .
jason and lisa
arent religious exemptions under attack right now?? i may be wrong but feel like i read that somewhere in the past few weeks.. i feel like it was vermont that was fighting to keep it..
possibly wrong,
-jason and lisa-
What she says is true. If they have decided to take over every aspect of Health care…and they have, then they can go as far as deciding what you eat, when you need checkups, what vaccines you require, etc. And, I am a nurse. BSN RN. If you don't do the things THEY consider necessary, they will be able to deny you coverage. Hopefully, with any luck, the bill will be overturned by the SCOTUS any time, now.
My husband and I intended to give birth in a Birth Center instead of a hospital. I was in labor for 5 days and I wasn't progressing, so I ended up having my daughter in the hospital. Thankfully our Birth Center had a good relationship with a hospital about 20 minutes away from the birth center. I also refused the Hep B vax, and I can't begin to imagine going through what this mother went through shortly after birth. It's heartbreaking, unbelievable and so disheartening.
Stanley Fishman
What a nightmare.! Do the parents have any rights at all? . I hope that justice is done. I am grateful to the Homeschool Freedom Fund for taking this case.
These totally innocent people were treated like dogs in the pound, not like human beings.
This case shows that when you are in the custody of a hospital, your child can be taken away by force, for no good reason at all, you and your child can be given medication you do not want, including unnecessary vaccinations full of toxins, and you can be treated like a criminal in state prison when you have done absolutely nothing wrong.
If you do have a home birth, having an MD assist with the delivery will often avoid the need to got to the hospital. There are MDs who do this all the time, and one of them would be the best choice.
I have seen first hand very similar horror stories from families that choose to make health/parenting/educational decisions on their own instead of abdicating these decisions to the state and others. What astounds me is that when social workers and often their supervisors outright lied about laws and procedures and instigated illegal and immoral actions to bully parents into compliance no action against them was ever taken. It seems if you fit within the norm as long you can do what you want to people who don't, and YOU are considered the one with the best intentions of the children at heart. In this case the social worker kidnapped a child. She should be put in jail.
Helen T.
Unfortunately, I believe you have to state what you intend to do before: check with the state laws and hospital policy and GET IT IN WRITING! Plus, try and have a doctor/midwife that has and understanding of these issues. It looks like things go very wrong when the parents wishes are known to the hospital staff at the last minute.
I am a pediatric nurse. I am unaware of ANY state that gives the Hep B vaccine before a child is 2 months old. Then, it is divided into 3 doses, at 2, 4, and 6 or 8 months. This is unreal. And, the woman should have called an attorney long before she did. I had midwife births with my kids…all three. One was at the hospital, and they were sarcastic and pushy, and I even heard one say, with an obvious sarcastic twang…"Oh…She's a Birthcenter patient." But, I am a nurse, and I know about informed consent. I know what they can and can't do. And, I'm sorry this lady was so mistreated. She needs to sue–first because she was given medication without being told what it was for, and because they didn't ask about her allergies. The Hep B testing…pretty irrelevant. They don't do it to protect the child from the family, as much as from exposure to other children in daycare, or the public in general. The ever intrusive government is working hard through SS. You can't even discipline your children anymore. And, they are fast taking away your right to choose or not choose vaccination.
I definitely know that CO and NM do. I've lived in both states and they want to give the first Hep B shot the same day the baby is born!
My son was born premature, at 29 weeks, weighing 3 pounds 1 ounce. Before he even hit 5 pounds, a nurse informed my husband that he was cleared by the doctors to receive Hep B. My husband told her we weren't willing to do anything unnecessary that might cause problems for our son. She told him they would need to speak to me about it as well. I wasn't at the hospital at the time.
It was a week or two later that they questioned me, and of course I backed up my husband. They just made a note on his chart that we weren't willing to do it yet. The night before he was discharged (after 56 days), his nurse told me that she was glad we refused Hep B, and that she thought it was a useless vaccine as well. We had a nice discussion about it.
Unfortunately, my first child received Hep B a few days after birth, because my husband and I were clueless at that time. I vividly remember two interns approaching us with the form to sign, and we did. The only thing they said is that they needed us to sign the consent for his Hep B shot. No discussion of what it was for, any side effects, nothing. I so wish I could go back to that moment in time and refuse.
My understanding is that it is very common for newborns to be given Hep B immediately after birth, before leaving the hospital. In our experience, it's true.
My 15 year old son had the first vaccine in the HepB series the day after he was born, before we left the hospital. This was in Indiana – 1997 – St. Jude on the southside of Indianapolis.
He had a terrible reaction (severe break-out) which was attributed to "mother's hormones."
I don't know where you live and work but you are WAY wrong.
This is absolutely ridiculous! I can't believe what a nightmare this would have been after JUST giving birth! I can't even begin to fathom what kind of thoughts/emotions were going through the mother at the time. What a horrendous experience to have to go through.
Ron Paul 2012. Restore the Constitution PLEASE!
Dawn, I totally agree with this comment of yours about Ron Paul AND your other comment about Single Payer Insurance, and Single Payer vs "Obamacare" and preferring single payer, but settling for Obamacare.
I feel the same way, even though because I am disabled, I thankfully get coverage under Medicare — a single payer system.
However if I didn't get Medicare, or ever lost the disability coverage, I'd be screwed if it were not for Obamacare — because I'd never qualify for private insurance due to the disabilities & "pre-existing conditions" I've had since early childhood…………………..
Oh and I TOTALLY agree with your above post about Ron Paul!
I HATE Ron Paul with a PASSION, and despite what the brainwashed Paul-bots think, Ron Paul is nothing but a TWO-FACED racist, homophobic, chauvinist/sexist, elitist corporate shill, hypocrite fraud!
Ron Paul would be a DISASTER for the country! An absolute 100% DISASTER!!!!
are you an idiot? have you researched ANYTHING about him? for I can go back to his childhood to now and show FACTS and peoples links who are black, brown orange chinese, japanese etc who have been his patients that he NEVER charged. wow that IS racist. NOT once flip flopped, not once a corporate shill as you state… Though all teh other incumbants thoroughly respect him and turn to him for answers, you would know this if you did one ounce of homework on the guy. And for your hypocrytical statement…umm he has stood by any and all bills hes tried for any and all issues never flip flopped any and all our congressman back that statement up along with our lovely influenced pocket lined news stations. Though I wont continue for you have absolutely NOTHING to back your statement.
Although all our boys over seas MUST in your eyes be awful for they all back him…
Please do your homework before you write statements like that for all your doing is making yourself look like a complete and utter idiot. I now lots that dont agree with his foreign policies but any and all know he is NOT any of what you just published….Thank you for showing you ARE NOT contributing to a better america…high props to you….IDIOT…go read a book do us all a favor
Ron Paul is Obama (another puppet for hidden agendas) Rick Santorum Is a homeschooling father. Need I say anymore.
Even though I do not vaccinate, and will probably homeschool, I would NEVER vote for Santorum. He would be an absolute disaster for women's rights. The only thing I respect about Santorum is that he is a good father to his severely disabled daughter. As the mother of a child who had a severe genetic syndrome and who lived to be seven (prognosis 6 months to 2 years), I think it's his only redeemable quality.
Boy, you are absolutely wrong. Dr. Paul is one of the most supportive of parental choice freedom and homeschooling than anyone else. He has nothing to do with the banking agendas. He's doing everything he can to educate Americans on the harm being done to our economy by the Federal Reserve. Just because Santorum is a homeschooling father didn't mean Dr. Paul didn't support homeschooling. Santorum is supposed to be pro-life but supports neverending wars. So he claims to be pro-life but only unborn children. Let's go murder as many Iranians as we can….so what that they might be collateral damage.
This is so so scary!
This makes me worry a bit. Due to the lack of midwives in my area, I'm having to give birth at a hospital in July. I'm planning to refuse the vitamin K & hep B shots. Do you think it's a good idea to talk to the OB dr. about it first?
In my mind, it seems like you might want to talk to your O.B. first, to get a feel for how that would be received. If you get a bad feeling based on the response, I wonder if it would be a good idea to be somewhere else when you are due so that you can give birth in a more understanding environment. Of course that would take a little research too….
Yes! Check with your OB/midwife first. They should be able to tell you what sort of response to expect with your desires. Also, check with your pediatrician in depth BEFORE the birth of your child. Your OB/midwife may be able to guide you to a ped who has rights at the hospital you are delivering in that will be reasonable with your requests. I have had four children at hospitals with a midwife and never had serious issues like this poor family.
I am getting closer and closer to choosing a home birth though to avoide things like this… who knows though really! The "big brother" has their terrible ways of doing all sorts of things to make a point. Ugh! So sad we are in this state now!
You might think about talking to a lawyer about it too. Know your legal rights up front.
Samantha Lee
And have a LEGAL statement from an attorney, your pedi, and whoever else with you!!
Stanley Fishman
You could try consulting a local attorney with expertise in this area, and asking how you can be protected against having the Hep B shot or any other procedure you do not want forced upon you and/pr your baby. State laws in this area vary widely, and you need legal expertise to have the best chance to meet your goals.It may or may not be possible in your location.l
Some people have had written birth plans, signed by themselves, the doctor, a hospital representative and possibly other interested parties, which make it clear that certain procedures are not to be done. The MD and the hospital might require certain tests before they agree to this, but it depends on your particular situation. If you have an attorney representing you, the hospital and the MD will be concerned about getting sued, and will be less likely to cause trouble. But you need a local attorney who knows the are to assist you with this.
And nothing is foolproof. Nothing is guaranteed.
Stanley Fishman
And if should b done long before you give birth, if you decided to try this route.
I would do that. I talked to mine about several decisions we were making that I knew would probably be different than normal hospital policy. Although different than some of his normal practices, talking them over with him let him see I was making informed decisions and we agreed on a course of action. When the hospital then indeed did balk at some of my decisions having him as my advocate in those situations made all the difference in the world. You will probably be fine and have no problems, but you may get the rare wackie traditional medicine zealot that will argue and even threaten you when your decisions are different than the norm, but they would NEVER consider doing that to your doctor. I even had a nurse physically accost me trying to "make" me take and injection she would not identify or explain to me ( and which turned out was not prescribed for me). No one was very considerate about my distress until the doctor came in and was outraged. Until he came in I was a terrible pain to them for not letting them all inject me willy nilly and they were threatening to remove my baby from me because I was "distressing her with my actions". After his intervention I was queen for the day, lol.
I would at least look into the Vit K. I was told prior to delivery by someone that is against vaccines that refusing the Vit K could cause legal action. I am not sure if that is correct, but definitely look into it before going. I have had 2 babies in hospitals (2 diff hospitals in Allentown) and have refused the Hep B both times with no problems. The hospital doesn't even really need to know – you can say you will have your pediatrician deal with it. That is acceptable and then they don't know what you have done. That is another issue though – I had to switch pediatricians when my old one required vaccines. Good luck!
Yes, talk to your doctor and walk in the hospital with a signed birth plan and be firm about it.
I would talk to your ob but also be ready to stand firm. My OB was totally fine with all our decisions. But the pediatrician tried bullying me & actually told me "ok, but your baby might die if you don't. ". She even told me she had seen it happen. Rather than argue I said " ok, I'll talk it over with his dad. But for now I'm saying no shot." Also, they were preparing the shot before asking us, when we informed them we were not going to. They also refuse to circumcise without a k shot (we didn't circumcise).
yeah, circumcising without the vit k is not a good idea unless you wait at least one week after birth.
I have refused all shots for my last three children with no problems. When I talked to my OB , he wasn't concerned about my plans for the baby after birth. The OB is not your baby's doctor. It is the hospital staff that you will have to deal with. Make sure you have a birthing plan. Bring a couple of copies of it to the hospital with you. It will also help if you know the laws for your state.
Also, I do not let the hospital staff know that I am TOTALLY against vaccinations even though I am. You can tell them that due to family history you follow a different immunization schedule than what is typical. You do not have to tell them that you will never immunize. This isn't a lie. I do have a different schedule. My schedule is NEVER.
I state in my birthing plan: We, "Mother's Name" ("Mom") and "Father's Name" ("Dad"), will determine with our baby's pediatrician, Dr. Whoever, when our baby should receive treatments that we have refused at the time of birth and during our hospital stay.
You should be able to find paperwork on your state health department's website that you can sign that shows vaccinations are not mandatory, and that you have the right as the parent to refuse them. There may be religious, medical or philosophical exemptions in your state. Having them notarized might also be useful to make them look more "official". Good luck!
Mrs. Yoder
I live in Lexington, KY now but when I lived in Tampa our parental rights were trampled on constantly. TGH even gave my oldest daughter a spinal tap without my permission. When I said no they frogmarched my husband into the hall and scared him until he signed it. He's felt guilty ever since. They told him that at 6 hours old that our daughter may have bacterial meningitis. Why did they really want to do it? To show the residents how to do a spinal tap. Simple as that directly from one of the nurses.
Anyway, our birthing experience with our youngest last year was like a dream. Like you, we declined vit K shots and hep B shots. We made sure to talk to her pediatrician first, then we called the head L&D nurse and spoke with her several times about our wishes. I made sure to let her know that I didn't want to be trampled on this time after what happened in Tampa, but I also let her know that I understood that an emergency or circumstances may happen that we would have to change the birth plan. If she was born hemorrhaging, for instance, then we would have given her the vit K shot. That open dialogue and flexibility with the head L&D nurse helped so much. We also made sure to mention it to the OR (I had to have another c-section) nurses and the nurses on the floor where she would be so no one would just go through the usual routine without thinking (my biggest fear, really). Everyone was great about it. We got really lucky this time. The first two times I gave birth was a nightmare so I hope for your sake, Janelle, that you don't have the same problems I did. Just be firm, assertive, and make sure that your husband is on board with you and he is willing to stand firm, too. They will try to separate you and corner whoever they think is 'weak' and doesn't have the courage of their convictions if they want something badly enough. It's part of their training. But you know the only positive side of what happened to us? My husband stood taller after that and now there is NO ONE who can boss him around from the medical field. He doesn't blindly believe that doctors and nurses have his best interest at heart. Or rather, doesn't believe that what their best interest and what ours is are the same I'll just put it that way. There are a lot of great nurses out there, my sister is one. But what they know and what we know are two different things. Good luck!
No, and I mean NO PEDIATRICIAN or NEONATALOGIST would perform any invasive procedure on a child/infant just for education puposes!!! That claim is utterly ridiculous!!! I have worked an Neonatal RN for years and hve only seen a handful of spinal taps done on infant's, and they were done when other infection indicators could not isolate the source of infection in a sick child.
I had no idea until after I gave birth that I even COULD decline anything…that's what first opened up my eyes! A sweet nurse (after 10 days in the NICU after two mega surgeries for my beautiful boy who was born with a major birth defect) ASKED me if I wanted the Heb shot here or later. I was shocked. "I can wait?!?!" I was so happy because I didn't want to add anything else to challenge his immune system, he had had plenty already (I have since tried to find this nurse but her name is not listed on our d/c papers, I wanted to thank her). So I say this simply to reiterate the fact that it IS our choice as parents to decide this. They do not know that you aren't going to follow up and get everything with your pedi and really it's none of their business whether you do or do not. Their job is to offer the shots along with the risks and benefits, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER MEDICAL INTERVENTION, and up to you to decide.
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
You absolutely have the right to refuse the Vitamin K shot and the Hepatitis B vaccine! I have worked as a NICU nurse in two differnt university hospitals. People refuse vaccines and Vitamin K all of the time, and under NO circumstances should staff ever go behind the parents' back and do something as morally reprehensible as what was done in the above case. In general, a hospital pharmacy will not even send a vaccine to the floor unless the floor faxes down a consent, signed by a parent and witnessed by a nurse. This hospital and its staff deserve to be sued if the above allegations prove true. The social worker is a criminal if her actions have been accurately portrayed. I have NEVER seen or heard of state social services becoming involved due to parents refusing vaccines. I have never even heard of a hospital social worker being called to the floor because parents were refusing vaccines. You can ask your OB her opinion regarding a pediatrician who would be supportive to your plans for your child, but your OB has absolutely nothing to do with the care of the baby once it is born–unless you live in a VERY rural area that does not have pediatricians, but in that case it is unlikely you would have access to an OB. Speak to your pediatrician in advance, BUT make sure you tell the nurses who will be tending to the baby in the labor room or operating room (in the case of a cesarian) that you do not want Vitamin K and the Hepatitis B vaccine. Typically, the nurses have "standing orders" to give the Vitamin K shot and the erythromycin eye ointment, so that could happen automatically, without your pediatrician having a say, if you do not tell the staff in advance. You have to consent in writing to a Hep B vaccine, so that would not be a standing order. Expect them to educate you as to why babies are given Vitamin K and Hepatitis B vaccines, because they have to do the education and document that they did. However, under no circumstances should they pressure you beyond the education, be disrespectful, or belittle you in any way. If they do, call "patient relations" and/or the hospital chaplain (regardless of your religion) immediately. If anything like the above happens to anyone when you are in a hospital for any reason, call a lawyer immediately! Write a specific birthing plan and give it to staff as soon as you arrive at the hospital. Make sure your husband or other family member has additional copies in case you are unable to function for some reason. My daughter was not taken out of my sight for a single minute the whole time we were at the hospital, and all medications were given in front of me (per my birthing plan). Although a critically ill infant might need to be taken out of a mother's sight, and be treated while out of her sight, due to the NICU being a separate unit, parents should not be denied permission to come to the NICU for more than a 1/2 hour or so at a time–and that would only be if a sterile procedure (think operating room suits and sterile drapes) were being done on your baby or a baby in the bed next to him/her. The preceding is to prevent babies from acquiring bloodstream infections, which absolutely kill babies. In our NICU, father's can come to the NICU with the baby if they desire, and the mother gets wheeled in to see her baby (in her hospital bed) as soon as she is able (i.e., as soon as her OB is finished with stitching etc. and says she can go). We have 24-hour visitation, aside from 6-7 am & pm when nurses are giving report to each other. This is for privacy reasons, so that parents do not hear other families' medical information. Individual nurses can be sued for violations of privacy (starting at $15,000 fine) and obviously parents do not really want other NICU parents knowing that they have herpes or are HIV positive. As for the comment about Obama, I can assure you that neither Obama or his health care plan had anything to do with the alleged criminal actions of the above hospital. Please do not think that this sort of thing happens routinely in hospitals. I would not work in one if it did! Actually, I would go back to school and become a lawyer who fought for patients' rights if it did.
I've been to Hershey Medical Center. I work in nearby Philadelphia. I find it difficult to believe that this account is accurate and not something at least partially fabricated.
I've have always just said that my babies will get their shots when I go to their regualr pedi. and I've been lucky and never questioned about it. (The hospital I deliver at and where the kids pedi has privleges are two different places.) My pedi doesn't like the idea that I have decided to stop vaccinating my kids, but he respects my decision.
Molly Ellick
Hi Janelle
My first was born in the hospital. I was not given a choice about the vitamin K shot as they administered it without permission. When they brought out the Hep B I didn't argue, I just stated that I preferred my doctor administer my baby's vaccinations at his newborn check. They were fine with that. They don't check up on these things, so I found that if you just say you've made other plans it avoids the strong-arming tactics. No, I don't agree with lying but if it is the only option to avoid the above scenario and protect my children then I will take it. My last three have been born at home with a midwife and I highly recommend it. Though not one that will transfer to the hospital so flippantly…being born in the parking lot under the care of a midwife never should have happened. These people were labeled negligent in the minds of the hospital staff BEFORE they questioned the shots.
You make an excellent point, and I think you're correct. I'm concerned about the manner in which they explained their circumstance, and why their baby was born in the parking lot. I'm certain that the staff already had them labeled negatively. They became TARGETS the minute they arrived at the hospital!
Janelle – make sure to check with the pediatrician you choose for your child. Their office might mandate vaccines, as many do. If you are choosing to not vaccinate, you need to be clear on their policy. Here in Michigan and for my son's birth, the pediatrician came in a while after our son was born, first gave us information about Hep B, and then asked if we wanted to give it to him. We first had to sign in order to give them the right to vaccinate him. Same with all the other vaccines too. Make sure to do your research before you go into labor. It pays off. I wish I was more informed especially when it came to vaccines. Ultimately, it is your RIGHT as a parent to refuse vaccinations for your child. Good for you to already be planning on refusing!
Lanae Trevino
Not all hospitals are like this…I delivered all 3 of my boys in a hospital. While not everything went ideally they for the most part did what I wanted. I would talk to your OB first and let them know you don't plan on doing certain things. But know your stuff before doing so….they will throw "facts" at you to try to scare you into doing things. If you are not going to do either of those I would also consider not doing the eye goop.
Charlene Connell
Also have a ped. YOUR ped treats your kid or else they'll assign one. If your kid is healthy, then nothing after initial exam should need to be ordered or done by anyone but your ped, and hopefully your ped will be there to do it. Maybe even he'll put in an order to not do anything but emergency stuff on his patient? Just trying to think ahead.
Your OB will have nothing to do with those shots. The nurses and pediatrician will be the ones you will deal with. Neither of my girls got Hep B shots, i just signed saying that i was refusing the vaccine……..it didn't seem like a big deal at the hospital i was at. With my second birth at that hospital i think they already knew i would refuse the Hep B shot (maybe cause the pediatrician is the same and knows our thoughts on these things).
I think having your pediatrician on your side is important with these issues.
I hope these parents sue every moving, breathing part of that hospital.
And anyone not an official employee of the hospital that took part in the wrongful separation of parent and child, and illegal medicating of that innocent baby.
I am PI&&ED!
I was "red flagged" after going to the hospital when I planned to have a homebirth. I hated the experience and it wasn't the doctors.. it was the system. Everything is at alarm state no matter if it's justified or not. This is an extreme case of that. They need to sue the social worker and all doctors involved.. it's on the ones that said the baby is healthy just as much because they didn't interject their professional opinion. Sue the hospital. Get an attorney ASAP.. stop this from happening to another family.
Sara Haaf
Doctors and nurses have been known to be plain spiteful when they hear you planned or attempted a home birth, or heaven forbid have to bring yourself and baby in after one. I've been reading horror stories over 10 years now. They want to be gods and people to believe the only safe place to birth is their way, yet america has some of the highest maternity fatality and injured or dead babies rates in the world. Interventions save, right..
Michael Baron
I don't know how it happened, but we didn't have a problem when we went in after we decided unassisted was too much for us.
We got out with no vaxes (explained that neither my wife or I use drugs and didn't expect the daughter to in the next several years so hep B was right out), no eyedrops (are you making accusations about my wife's fidelity?), no vitamin k (breastfeeding, and no circ was done) no "drug test they usually do when someone comes in after no prenatal care"… Either they were very hip to what was going on or they realized that the flannel shirt wearing guy with all the scars on his hands might not be the one to mess with unless they had a syringe of something handy and fast-acting enough that I wouldn't get one punch off before it worked.
Don't let your kid out of your arms. If they want to do a test you go with and hold the child. Be informed. Let them ask you questions and be ready to answer them solidly. If they're approaching you for something you don't want, turn your shoulder towards them (child away, you're holding them, right? You should be holding them unless asleep, in which case you inform them that you're all taking the opportunity to rest for what may be the last time in 18 years) look them squarely in the eyes and say "excuse me, what are you doing?". Don't be violent, but be protective enough to get the point across to the reptilian portion of their brain that you will END THEM ON THE SPOT if they try anything funny with YOUR CHILD.
There's a reason you never hear "hospital worker assaulted over infant care". They know who they can get away with this stuff on, and who will snap someone's neck given the right motivation.
Mother Morgan
Yes, that was my thought when I read this!
If I were in her position and they tried to take the baby away to give shots that I didn't want or approve of, I'd say something like:
OK. But do that only if you want me showing up and giving shots of random liquids to your kids in the middle of the night. (With a serious and furious glint in my eye)
ABSOLUTELY!! I agree with you logic. I read more detail on this story on another site, and I was enraged and horrified. As I read this couple's story, I kept thinking, "and no one at that hospital lost their teeth????" Believe me, if that had been hubby and me, someone would have, or at least had to pick themselves up off of the floor!
You're correct; medical staff are experienced enough to know who will let them "get away" with things. Not enough people understand their rights, let alone how to stand up for them. Even fewer people understand the dangers of blindly giving a newborn the Hep shot. To my knowledge, it's the only man-made vax and it's derived from yeast. Heaven forbid your baby is allergic, because there can be deadly consequences.
I'm right there with you, and I'll fund them if they don't have enough.
It's time doctors and hospitals stop mistreating women for fear of being sued. SUE THEM for violating our autonomy and parental rights, and let them change their tune.
welcome to the future of medicine under Obamacare!
It is all about control and greed. When will it stop? I hope people think hard about the
future before they go to vote.
Rebecca, don't be so ignorant. Obama had nothing to do with this. The people in the hospital did what they wanted to do and what they thought was right. They had no real concern for the family and their choices to live their lives the way that they feel is best for themselves. Have you ever had a child or experienced a home birth, in comparison to a hospital birth? Hospitals are a blessing when serious medical attention is needed, but a woman can birth her baby on her own. A woman doesn't need an OBG (unless surgery is needed in an emergency), or medicinal help in order to have a baby. Education, support, an environment that they can feel safe, getting rid of the fear that a woman can't do this and birth is traumatic. We need to embrace and support the beauty, gift, confidence, and power of woman and birth. Our hospitals, the people who work in them, and we as a culture, are the ones we need to question, not Obama.
Naynay, You are the ignorant one if you think the gov't has nothing to do with this and you think Obamacare won't make it worse. Did you see mentioned "social services", "hearing", "the officer"? Government! Was there any mention that the hospital staff was reprimanded or any such thing? The hospital knew they could count on the gov't to back them up.
We will be losing many, many more rights if things don't change! God bless the parents and all parents.
People we need to get serious and pray!
Paul Ryan's plan for Social Security MANDATES you to set aside a portion of your income to save for retirement. You do get a choice about which investments, though. You can choose whether you stay in the current Social Security Trust Fund OR if you invest in some combination of government approved mutual funds, which are, of course, run by the private sector. What you CANNOT do under Ryan's plan is take the money currently being set aside for Social Security and spent it on ANYTHING ELSE.
How are we losing more of our rights under so called ' Obamacare ' ?
Obama's plan MANDATES you to use a portion of your income to buy health insurance. You do get a choice about which coverage, though. Unfortunately, there is no "public option" to choose from (thanks, GOP!), so the choices are simply those offered by the PRIVATE SECTOR.
lol at overreacting
okay listen guys. this has nothing to do with obamacare. social workers, services, officers, hearings… if you want to blame our country's insistence on providing social services to it's citizens go dig up Roosevelt and ask him if he ever thought in 60 years you'd have a bunch of very ignorant in-compassionate people running around this country complaining about helping those in need, he'd probably have resigned right then and there!
look guys – not all vaccs are necessary – but take it from someone with a degree in the medical field, most of them ARE. it's an issue of public safety, plain and simple. if you don't understand this – look up an unbiased source regarding vaccination and infectious disease transmittal. it's a lot more scary than the United States National Health Care Act (using the term obamacare alone makes it sound like YOUdon'tcare, in my opinion).
but where was i? the problems with our govt started LONG BEFORE obama took office. if you disagree, check your facts. if you watch fox news, are a republican, enjoy tea party debates, and attend a mainstream christian church in this country, i'm like 99% sure a majority of you have your facts straight up wrong.
god loves you and me and obama, just like all the other billions of people on this earth. without one another, no one is going to make it. can we all start thinking as unified human people instead of this finger pointing blame game?
lol at "I have a degree in a medical field"
What is your degree, exactly? an associates' in cytotechnology? How exactly does your degree qualify you to unconditionally state your opinion as if it were fact?
How about this: it doesn't matter what *your* opinion of vaccination is. Under current law, and obviously under any moral code, a parent has the right to decide what medical treatment, if any, their child receives. Parents have the right to ask questions about their child's treatment and receive information on the benefits, risks, and alternatives to any treatment before it is given. Based on this information, parents have the right to refuse or accept treatment for their child. No government body or governmental employee at any level (from the federal on down to the clerk at the city utilities office) has the right to override the rights of parents. And your "degree in a medical field" doesn't give you the right to determine appropriate medical treatment for people whom you don't even know, so leave your mail-order degree and your opinions out of it, ok?
That said, I believe that the vaccination issue was the excuse they were using to punish the family for having planned a home birth.
The government yes, Obama specifically no. This fight has been going on for long before Obama even ran for office. Americans get screwed because Americans have been dumb down by partisan politics. Snap out of it
All the government you are complaining about in this story is LOCAL government. The ""social services", "hearing", "the officer"" are all part of the PA government and even smaller to the level of county government. It's not someone employed by the Federal government in any of those cases. There's a huge difference. The health care bill does not mandate Hep B or Vitamin K shots. If such a thing exists in the PA law, it is because PA government put it into law not a 2 year old health care plan designed mainly to allow adults, children, and the elderly who have been refused insurance to be able to acquire some, or if they have a hard time paying for prescriptions, that they can have an easier time maintaining their health. I would highly suggest you actually read the health care bill as it seems you know absolutely nothing of what it actually contains.
Ray G
Well, some of that is partially right. It's not about Obama per se, or Paul Ryan or whomever else one wishes to call a bogey-man.
The government, that is, the state has as its larger agenda the growth of state power and the consequential loss of individual liberty. Not in some uber-conspiratorial fashion, but this is just the nature of power. Your local HOA to the heads of state; people in power, particularly bureaucratic power will always expand their influence as naturally as water flowing downhill.
Long story short, there is no ideological battle taking place in American politics, only a power struggle. Everyone has in their human nature one of two basic tendencies; 1) individualism or 2) the collective. See the "lot of overreacting" commenter; their knee-jerk reaction to this topic was that of the collective, that is – community first, individual second. If the individual suffers somehow for it, it is justified by the greater good for the larger number of people. (This same commenter is most likely a Peter Singer acolyte as well.)
More to the point however is that the majority of people reading here that are concerned with the well being of their family, and do not blindly trust bureaucrats and experts with their personal decisions need to be less trusting of any politicians regardless of party stamp.
Think of the overlap of ideology that allows people such as Michael Pollan and Joel Salatin to be on the same side. They set a good example for people with naturally differing ideologies focusing on the real issue at hand.
This can be traced back to the UN…. fight for your rights.. join forces. I'm glad my kids are grown, but I will have grandkids one day and will fight for them! Join up , or at least look into this group … http://www.parentalrights.org/
Learn who they are and the forces they are fighting against.
@lol at overreacting:
NONE of this is about which vaccines are necessary or where you stand politically. This is about a parent's right to make choices for their child taken away in the cruelest way. It doesn't matter that you believe that certain vaccines are necessary, nor does it matter that I can name several physicians who would fervently disagree with you; the fact is the PARENT must make this gamble whether they choose to vaccinate or not. They gamble when they vaccinate and they gamble when they don't; therefore it should not be anyone else's choice. It is their choice, and the fact that baby Annie's parents had this choice taken away was WRONG!!
Wow, your response just revealed that you are completely brainwashed by FAUX News buzzwords. "Government" "social worker", boy that's all you need to hear and you jump directly to the conclusion the radical right-wing wants you to parrot.
People who abuse the power of their positions, both within a gov't office and within a private-sector office, are called AUTHORITARIANS, and the vast, vast, vast majority of them self-identify as Republican conservatives. They love to control other people and control their decisions. They look down on anyone who doesn't subscribe to exactly the same beliefs. This is what hospitals, nurses and doctors like this are doing. It has NOTHING to do with Obamacare, which obviously was not even in place on the date this incident took place.
Nannay. If you don't start listening/reading the truth about what is going on with this administration you are part of the problem. This is the most invasive administration ever in our history. You don't understand what 'mandates' mean? If the gov can tell us we have to pay for something in the market or pay the penalty, that is a major total loss of liberty. And if Obama care goes through, not only will they make us pay, they'll tell us what we can get for the price we pay…i.e. what doctor we must see, if we can see one, if we can get the operation and then what? What food we must eat, what immunizations we must get. The list goes on and on. Stop listening to the main news shows and get your information from people who know the truth. This Obama care plan was a lie from the beginning. Do yourself and this country a favor and educate yourself.
Sara Haaf
You do realize the majority of the plan was written by republicans in the first place, right? Costs of medical care will go down because, you know what happens when someone gets cancer and has no insurance?? Bankruptcy and the government pays either with state insurance and costs go up because of people not paying there bills. It is so unchristian to not be for healthcare. Would you rather people's children die from cancer? Also, the cost of insurance is kicked back to you on taxes if you make under 275k/yr, which most people do. Stop watching Fox News, it's been proven to make you dumber and people who watch it tend to be insane.
You Americans scare me. "get serious and pray"?! Socialized healthcare is the best thing about Canada
Ignorance such as that depicted in the comments here is why America is failing.
Socialized healthcare is the best thing about Canada
This is like saying "Equality of opportunity is the best thing about Hell."
Please watch the video I've linked to in this post.
Helen T.
And something to counterbalance by noted columnist Richard Reeves:
Great article!! Thanks for that!
If you think socialized health care is the best, then why are you Canadians coming to America to get the best medical care in the world? So you want the US to have the same health as Canada because misery loves company. Just asking
at "lol I have a degree in a medical field"
I'll preface this by stating – I have two law degrees, an LL.B and a JD – and they're not incredibly relevant to what I am about to say.
You are correct – for the most part – about parents being allowed to make the bulk of the medical decisions for their children. You are incorrect, however, when you imply that a parent's decision for their child's treatment can never be overridden. The state/government has what is called an "interest in life". As a result of this, the government can absolutely go directly against the wishes of a parent and produce a court order which allows a child to be treated, medically, for whatever may become necessary to save his/her life, or what may generally be in the child's best interests.
So, basically, if your child has cancer, and you refuse to undergo the recommended treatment (surgery/radiation/chemo), the government can mandate treatment. So the parent's decisions can absolutely be overridden in circumstances of life or death.
Dawn, do not confuse state governments with the federal government. The federal government may collect taxes but it cannot order you to buy a product/service. Guess what, states' requirements vary, and one does not even require car insurance; on top of that, you don't have to drive, or buy your own home. It's not quite so easy to *stop existing.*
No, I do NOT have only two choices, dictated to me by you. Where are people's family, friends, neighbors? Oh, I forgot, neighbors don't even talk to each other anymore. What about charity? Where are the people who are closest to the problem, first? And where do people get the idea that their insurance must pay for all kinds of routine, predictable, even arguably elective expenses? How about getting back to the idea that it is for emergencies, period.
Ray G
Dawn Small Feet:
The government does not have a Constitutional right to mandate taxes for healthcare. That's not even close to being correct. That's silly actually and you should be embarrassed for saying such a thing. Really. Be serious.
No one is complaining about their car insurance here for the same reason no one is debating whether Ty Cobb was the greatest all around baseball player. Or in other words, we're hunting deer, you just wandered down a rabbit trail.
The rest of your post is circular logic – we "must" have universal health care, and because you have already established that not-so-well established fact, you are then free to make the next leap of bad logic – since we must have government healthcare, then it follows that anyone who disagrees with you also doesn't care about their fellow citizens.
Jenn – you are missing the point. Who decides the best treatment? The parents should – even in a life or death case. Parents who refuse conventional cancer treatment usually want an option that doesn't leave their child permanently disabled or worse. It's not that they are entirely declining any form of treatment.
V. Savage
Dawn, you can choose to not own a car, you can choose to not own a house. You can't choose to never need medical care…
rights of parents
The interest of the state in mandating what health care practices are appropriate – its "interest in life" – dwindles with the relevance of the procedure to the child's life. Does the state have an interest in forcing cancer treatment on a child? Perhaps, perhaps not. In some types of cancers and treatments, doing "everything possible" to treat the illness can actually be against the child's best interest, lowering overall quality of life without extending lifespan (and sometimes shortening it.) Just because you could give 50 rounds of chemo doesn't mean you should. and the government is notoriously bad at predicting what medical treatments would best serve citizens. See also Angela Carder, Daniel Hauser, and others. And if it's ok to order cancer treatment, then should the state mandate everything that potentially affects my child's health? Should I be jailed or have my children removed because I let them have french fries from Sonic for an afternoon snack today?
That said, the overall impact of receiving the Vit K shot and Hep B vaccine (or not) is low. Would the child's life be directly and immediately threatened if she didn't receive these injections? Of course not. Both the child and the mother were directly harmed, emotionally and physically, by separation at birth. Did the state have the right to absolutely and definitely harm two individuals, in order to supposedly "protect" the infant from what is at best a very remote possibility of harm? Of course not. This was a ridiculous violation of the parent's right to understand and make decisions concerning her child's health.
We could get into the issue of how the same baby that the state was so zealous to protect could have been legally killed by abortion only a few short weeks prior to that, possibly using state funds, but what's the point?
@SaraHaaf, said "You do realize the majority of the plan was written by republicans in the first place, right?"
Please present facts instead of rhetoric, such as clear research of the law in question. Clearly you have not read all 2700 pages of Obamacare so your retorts are only based on the biased news you read, listen or watch on TV, the same as those you are accusing of not being "informed".
A link to someone who read the whole document in question, has expertise in the area and his analysis from a Constitutional attorney.
The link, http://www.naplesnews.com/blogs/council-constitutional-principles/2012/apr/14/gggggggggggggggggggg/
Further, why should I pay for your healthcare, in fact if you happen to realize the site you're on, obviously it's about getting out of the poisonous system that has been created. People die from cancer all the time (I had 2 uncles die from it before I even reached 18 and more family later), the medical profession has no answer, just control of your life. Don't be such a little android slave, you're just what the Fuhrer ordered.
Thanks Naynay. Rebecca is an idiot.
Canadianguy – Socialized medicine is the best thing about Canada? My husband and I are Canadian. We lived in Canada until we were 25 and still frequently go back to visit Canadian family. We have *wanted* to move back closer to family in Canada for several years and have always been proud to be Canadian citizens. Sadly, one of the reasons we feel we shouldn't go back to Canada is BECAUSE of their healthcare. I don't know where you live in Canada but we are from Ontario and it has only gotten worse since we last lived there just over 10 years ago. I would have to schedule a pap a YEAR in advance. I wanted to get into my family doctor for a fungal infection and had to go to emergency and wait 3 hours because there are no appointments to be had for several months out with "your doctor". I could go on and on and this is just the basic stuff, not the life-threatening junk that goes on in Canadian hospitals. Obamacare is asking for the exact same poor excuse for medical care that Canada has – terrible.
What happened with this family (particularly the mother and baby) is something that needs to be taken to court and needs to be publicized. As government starts to control more and more, your rights are removed faster and faster. This isn't just a case of "over-reaction" as some have stated. This is appalling and a complete injustice.
I've heard it said that Canada is "a generation ahead" of the United States ethically, morally, and in human rights. If this is true (as it appears to be), I sure hope and pray American citizens will stand up for what is right now because these supposed "advancements" are nothing more than a huge socialized mess of controlling "agencies" and government intrusion. That mess is heading south of the Canadian border and healthcare will be one of the first to fall apart.
Heather, I find it a little weird that none of my Canadian friends agree with you or report similar experiences. On the other hand, a wait of a month or two for nonemergent illnesses isn't that unusual under the American system, either.
Jack Turner
If Obama had anything to do with it, He would have slaughter their baby. At least, that is his track record.
@Heather – not sure where you lived in Canada, but that hasn't been my experience at all (I'm in Ontario) nor has it been the experience of my family or extended family, including treatment for one special needs child. I've never had to schedule a pap in advance; I've been free and able to switch doctors; if, for some reason, I need treatment for something quicker than I can get in to see my doctor, I can go to numerous walk-in clinics (for pap tests as well, BTW); I've been able to use Telehealth for quick answers to immediate health questions. I'm not quite sure how 'it has only gotten worse' overall, but perhaps I don't know the particulars of your former neck of the woods 10 years ago. Not saying our system is perfect (are any?), but it's far from a 'socialized mess.'
OMG, more lies about Obama. I love how one idiot's retort of "Blah blah blah, it's all the fault of Obamacare" turns this comment section into anything but a discussion on the original article. If you are stupid enough to believe the Fox News and republican lies about the Affordable Care Act, then you don't have a clue about much when it comes to truth and reality, don't even deserve to be listened to. Talk about drinking the kool-aid.
Thank you for this blog, I found the link at Natural News.
We had a good home birth about 30 years ago in Ontario Canada.
Midwifery was, shall we say, outside the law, but my GP did not report it.
Years later midwifery became a legal option and hospitals also introduced home like birthing rooms for normal births. I doubt Americans hear good about national health care, but yes, it's a right, and so are our choices of doctors and treatments.
The shenanigans and power tripping covered in this story are horrible, but I just wanted to say that perhaps, suing is not always the best way, since, I agree the hospital and child workers were trying to make an example of the parents, but trying to make an example by suing is fire with fire. Changing laws to welcome midwifery is better. Much wickedness in high places and we have to figure out how to deal with it and educate ourselves more and wake people up more and more.
Yes, Canada has legal, government-paid homebirth midwifery services with a fantastic safety record.
The horror! GAH! SOSHULISM!
Obamacare is the government! and yes we need to see that big government is taking over our freedom….YOU dont get it!
Government mandated healthcare (Obama Care) dictates that government mandates your care & comes between the patient and her health providers, making the decisions for them. Although I agree with your ideas on birth as a natural event, many are not. As an ER nurse, I can confidently tell you that many physicians are pissed at the idea of having the government tell them how to treat theior patients. Please read up on Obama Care & what it entails before you vote again.
Jan Anders
You're the ignorant one. You need to get your head out of the sand and really see what's happening in this country and what will happen in this country in the future if we continue on the road that we're on now.
Well said NayNay, i will never have another hospital birth unless necessary, i will not vaccinate my child and yes, i plan on home schooling all 3 (so far) of them. My believe due to education my self, AND This type of stupidity was around long before Obama
I am having trouble with the statements ' Govt run hospital '
The only govt run hospitals are VA administered care centers and hospitals.
Can you please clarify what you mean by govt run hospital and govt personnel? Are the staff that work at Hershey in the military?
Although I agree patients should make whatever decisions that want to when it comes to their health, govt run hospital can only be a VA facility / facilities
Maybe it's a county hospital.
Lisa M.
Just to clarify: The hospital is just a hospital (it's not government-owned, it may have some research government grants, etc – just like any academic medical center). It's just owned by the university (my mother works there, I went to PSU, and I lived in Harrisburg). Also, the hospital is in Hershey – which is a good 90 minutes from State College. The only thing this hospital and the Jerry Sandusky thing have in common is the words Penn State. All Penn State facilities shouldn't be shamed because of one moron like Sandusky – the Medical Center has done some amazing things, of which I've had a front-row seat to. Just sayin'.
That said, this story sucks and has me concerned – like everyone else has mentioned here. I hate that they went through that.
I, too, had wanted to bring up the fact that Hershey is not a government hospital! I had to take my son there to see a neurologist when he was having seizures and it is not run by the military or anyone else in the government. I know government hospitals-my husband was in the army for 20 years and we used the military facilities, with which I had no problems.
And you're right about the whole Sandusky thing. That happened in State College and has nothing to do with Hershey Medical Center!
Emily Wasouf
You're a better person than I, Lisa. As soon as I saw the first two lines of the post, I stopped reading. Anyone who can't take the time to fact check even that much isn't writing an article I care to read.
Ray G
I agree that people should be more precise with their language in such conversations, but surely you understand the larger point that is being made.
Bottom line is that this couple was treated as if they were criminals by both the hospital and the local bureaucrat that showed up to represent the state. This couple showed up as midwived parents, and were thus obviously already on the hospital's "nutcase" radar.
Or maybe to follow the implications your post established – perhaps your intent is to defend the huge corporation that owns and runs the hospital? Either way your post was passively antagonistic so either you take the side of the big corporation that owns the hospital, or the government drone that made their life a short but intense kind of hell for a couple of days.
Ray G
You're commenting on an article you didn't even read? Seriously?
Sara Haaf
this stuff has been happening long before Obama even ran for president. Don't be ignorant and blame everything on the president, it's ridiculous. If anything this is the type of thing a Republican would be for, they are all about corporate rights, people not so much.
Oh, please. Leave politics out of it. Or is this your go-to excuse when you can't form a coherent opinion?
WTF does this have to do with Obamacare you non-thinking hyperpartisan mindless parrot?
Ray G
Really? You don't see why people make the connection?
These people were treated as badly as they were by both the local bureaucrat and the hospital. And surely you know that hospitals and healthcare overall are so heavily regulated that it is either dishonest or incurably ignorant to say that this is a private industry problem.
Surely you, Ms. Haaf, Mandy, et al are not saying that this is a problem with corporations, and government has nothing to do with how hospitals are run. I mean, this is a serious discussion, you guys wouldn't bring something that flimsy to the table and expect to be taken seriously. Right?
It has nothing to do with Obamacare or the President or anything Federal. This was a local hospital who made decisions on their own—there are no regulations for harassing and detaining parents who choose to homebirth and end up in the hospital. There are no regulations for parents who refuse vaccinations—that is a decision made by the staff on hand. This is clearly a case of power-hungry doctors and county workers who have no right butting their heads in the decisions of the parents. For what it's worth–I also refused to Hep. B shot for my kids. I had no problems from anyone.
Samantha Lee
Has NOTHING to do with OBAMACARE, this has been going on for years and before HE was in office!! This has NOTHING to do with the president, it has EVERYTHING to do with lying CPS! CPS has a DUTY to say NO! They don't, know why? They get paid MORE for saying YES!! And in some cases get raises even after being caught!!!
Rebecca. What an ignorant statement. This has nothing to do with Obamacare, as you like to call it, but everything to do with the police state created by Republicans. Just another ignorant female righty.
Tommy: You are an ignorant boob.
Yep, Chris….exactly. Apparantly Tommy has no idea what government mandated healthcare means.
Lynn Westrich
Tommy you have it all wrong. Obama is the problem. Don't you read, ask, go to meetings or do you rely on social media which is all liberal. The Republicans are trying to prevent a police state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obama wants us to be under the care of the United Nations. You do know what that is don't you? Obama and Hillary are getting ready to sign the Sea and Land Treaty which gives our sovereignty to the UN. Obama is out to bring America down. Look at the economy, we are on the brink of a double recession possible depression. As for Healthcare, Obama wants us all to answer to govt and you know how they fuck up everything. You need to get informed!
I think ALL of these politicians are the problem! Democrats & Republicans! 2 sides of the same coin! Get government out of healthcare!
Cedar Cat
Lynn, how much Fox News are you watching? Please, just step away. Faux News is not news at all, and they agree that they are not news. The GOP ushered in the police state with the 9/11 Homeland Security and subsequent "wars on terror". And let's not forget the enormous bag of poop W left Obama with the economy. And then, the GOP's massive tantrum where they just lie on the floor, kick their feet and scream "NO!" at anything to solve our country's problems. They just want to take down Obama, and they don't care who gets hurt in the process.
This has nothing to do with so-called "Obamacare." That's about insurance mandates. I don't support it, but it has nothing to do with this case. Get a grip.
At least Annie had the good fortune of being born a girl. With circumcision rates falling as they are I wouldn't be surprised to see the day when boys are stripped away from their parents to have their genitals forcibly mutilated against the wishes of the parent (not to mention the consent of the child).
Seriously??? Equating vaccination with forced circumcision?
Friend, if you don't think forced vaccination is AT LEAST as big of a deal, you need to do more reading on vaccination.
Princess Fifi Trixibelle
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Obama – or Obamacare. The health care legislation Obama got passed in the legislature has not yet been enacted.
This is about a crypto-fascist social worker who is prejudiced against home birth and homeschooling.
I'm 57 and remember back in the 1960's when I was in grammer school that parents who sent their kids to public school were forced to have their kids vaccinated.
Where have you been? Under a rock? Michelle Obama is promoting nutrient dense, whole foods diet, organic gardening and eliminating junk food for kids and healthy families. Michelle Obama has take a LOT of heat and criticism from the Tea Baggers and Sarah Palin – Michelle Obama has been called a "Food Nazi" just because she has tried to encourage parents to feed their kids more vegetables, fruits, whole grains and reduce junk food – Michelle Obama took a lot of heat and criticism by the pesticide industry and corporate agribusiness for promoting organic gardening on the White House lawn.
I had no idea that they called her that (which, I'm sorry, is pretty awful), but I don't think that her encouraging healthy food is where the name came from. There is so much that Barak did that contradicted the very things that that she encourages and my feeling is that the name came more from that. Now I'm not going to say that the name was fair (again, it's pretty awful), but it makes more sense that people judged her by her husband's actions than by acts of trying to create a healthy America. I'm not going to pretend to know where Michelle Obama stands when it comes to health, but I'm sorry to remind you (or inform you) that her husband made it pretty clear that he is NOT a proponent of a healthy America.
The story about baby Annie is just one of many scary stories about government in health care. I agree fiascoes like this have been going on looooong before Obama, but the fact is that neither he nor any of the other presidents before him did much once the FDA (aka the Fraud and Death Administration) came into play.
Rebecca, I completely agree with you. It's only going to get worse!
Oh, this has been going on LONG before Obamacare. I fear that Obamacare will make things far worse for parents though.
Bull hockey. I have never heard of anything as ridiculous as your comments. It has everything to do with Obama Care Who do you think your fooling?
Really, Rebecca? really? Go read a book.
What are you talking about? This was well before Obamacare went into effect. This comment is spewing hate and lies — no better than what the social worker tried to do.
For all you doubting jerks out there these things really do happen. Just cause you hide your head from how corrupt our Health and Wealfare system is don't change it it takes we the people to stick to gether to do something about it. I have been going through an extreme injustice with Twin falls Id. system and all cause i had the audasity to tell a dirty cop in front of other officials he was dirty. I was completely set up and my life taken away I did everything they asked including stopped taking my allergy meds cause they made amphetamine in my hair there was not even a .0000000000001 for meth they know it was my allergy meds. On july 29 I almost died due to a severe allergy attack and guess what they gave me to save my life. On Sept 22 my 16 year old son almost died due to thier neglegence and I was denied the right to his medical as well as the right to see. him in the hospital. I was not accused of abuse or neglect i was accused of yellin at them cussin in front of them and not always makin them stay grounded for 5 days. they still have my 16 years old he is cuttin himself burning himself doing drugs is now a criminal and the school don't even want him there. None of this happened before they took him. I am a single mom
Well, hold on. As terrible as this story sounds, and is most likely entirely true (I am an ER nurse), if you voted for Obama care you voted for the right for the government to come in between you & your health care providers. These mandates are in progress, and by 2014, if Obama is re-elected, this is what health care will look like. As I see it, please don't complain if you took the time to vote for government mandated healthcare.
I couldn't agree with you MORE! I truly fear the direction that this country is going.
At least Annie had the good fortune of being born a girl. With circumcision rates falling as they are I wouldn't be surprised to see the day when boys are stripped away from their parents to have their genitals forcibly mutilated against the wishes of the parent (not to mention the consent of the child).