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How to Resist Pediatrician Pro Vaccination TacticsHealthy Pregnancy, Baby & Child, Vaccination
A Pediatrician recently commented on a blog I wrote a few weeks back titled, "Six Reasons to Say NO to Vaccinations". Her comment got me thinking about how parents could best deal with the tactics that Pediatricians frequently use to compel their patients to vaccinate.
Here are a few of the most effective ploys I've experienced or heard about at the Pediatrician's office and how to best thwart them.
If you've ever been to a Pediatrician's office with a young child, then you know that Fear is the number one weapon used to coerce parents to vaccinate their children. I've had it used on me by a lifelong doctor friend of the family! It takes a major act of will to resist this tactic.
"What if YOUR child gets polio? Could you ever forgive yourself if your child became crippled?" "Did you know that deafness and brain damage are two complications from measles?"
Pediatricians deadpan these type of heart stopping questions when parents show any type of resistance to shots and it works very effectively, particularly with first time parents.
Once the emotion of fear sets in after hearing these types of terrifying questions, it is so much easier to just allow the doctor to vaccinate your child. Confrontation with a highly educated, sometimes condescending doctor in his/her own office is difficult even for people who don't shy away from it. No one wants to start an argument in a doctor's office or walk out with everyone staring at them.
The best way to withstand the fear gimmick is to keep thinking about the risk/reward ratio of vaccinating versus not vaccinating. The benefits of not vaccinating far outweigh the risks of vaccinating. Vaccination carries a huge risk of lifelong autoimmune disease for your child. On the other hand, the risk of not vaccinating carries the relatively small risk of infectious disease.
Truth is, vaccinating is no guarantee against infectious disease! In an outbreak of mumps last year, 63% of the children who fell ill were completely up to date with their vaccinations!
And, if your child is well nourished (if you are reading this blog, he/she probably is), the risk of complications from any type of infectious disease is slim to none. I know this from personal experience. All three of my children had pertussis a few years ago. Any issues or problems? Nada. My youngest was only 15 months old at the time and still had no problems whatsoever. Nourishing children well is a much wiser strategy for long-term health than injecting them with toxins and thinking this will somehow "protect" them particularly when so much evidence abounds that vaccinated children make up the majority of those who get sick in outbreaks.
Not only is the risk of catching an infectious disease in the first place quite small, but on top of that you have the even more remote likelihood of complications. On the other hand, vaccinating your children carries the enormous risk of some form of autoimmune or behavior disorder.
Don't believe it? Check out the results of this worldwide survey of over 7,600 unvaccinated children and compare their health with that of the standard population of vaccinated children.
Considering that the risk of autism alone is about 1 in 67 right now and increasing rapidly, doesn't it seem a much more intelligent choice not to vaccinate?
Make your own choice for your children based on the observable facts such as what Dr. Eisenstein MD has so aptly done.
Condescending Tone
Not all doctors are condescending. Let me make that point very, very clear upfront. I know there are wonderful doctors out there who listen patiently and respond in a human fashion to the concerns of their patients!
However, many Pediatricians are extremely condescending, especially when a parent questions vaccines! I had one doctor once march me down the hall to show me his numerous and impressive university and post graduate degrees beautifully framed on the wall! His point? "I'm smarter and more educated than you are. You are a nobody to be questioning my authority." My response? I walked out.
Don't let Pediatricians confuse you with their doctor-speak. Doctors are no doubt extremely intelligent people. Intelligence does not equate with common sense, however. The most intelligent people frequently turn out to be the most myopic.
"You Need Shots for School"
A tactic sometimes used by Pediatricians is to tell parents that their child will need shots when he/she goes to school (school officials do this too, by the way). Leading parents to believe that shots are compulsory for school attendance is misleading and deceptive.
All states have some sort of philosophical or religious exemption with the exception of Mississippi and West Virginia. I know children all over the USA who attend school, both public and private, who have never had a vaccination. My oldest is now in high school, has attended 5 schools during his educational career and has never had a single shot.
If you get this line from your Pediatrician (or school official), put your antennas up immediately. Operation "Manipulate the Parent" is underway.
Don't do a thing until you get home and research the laws of your individual state. This link has a state by state guide to vaccine exemptions. There is almost always a vaccination exemption form that you can fill out to obtain entrance into school sans the shots.
Religious Discrimination
A fourth weapon Pediatricians use to cajole parents to vaccinate is the threat that they will be dropped as patients if they don't comply. I am hearing more and more stories of this type of unethical behavior from Pediatricians – vaccinate your child or else!
Even if the parents have a legitimate religious objection to vaccinations, Pediatricians still drop them for refusing shots for their children. If this isn't against the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States forbidding discrimination based on religion, I don't know what is!
Doctors can't refuse a patient due to race, gender, sexual orientation or color – why can they refuse a patient based on religion?
Given that many vaccines use aborted fetal cell tissue (where a viable fetus was medically and volunatarily aborted, not miscarried), there is clearly a valid, religious argument for not submitting to these shots. Many religions oppose abortion and using the tissue of a murdered human being to create vaccines is absolutely abhorrent to people of many Faiths.
Perhaps a class action attorney reading this blog is looking for a great case. This unjustifiable, unethical, and unlawful behavior by Pediatricians is just begging for a lawsuit! Suing a large Pediatric group such as Pediatric Healthcare Alliance, a group in my metro area (Tampa FL) which espouses dropping patients who do not vaccinate for religious reasons, would stop this egregious practice in its tracks by setting a legal precedent.
Consider a Family Doctor instead of a Pediatrician
Ultimately, the best way to resist the pro-vaccination tactics used by Pediatricians is to just not go!
Fact: The Pediatric medical specialty was created primarily to administer vaccines to children. Unless you are fortunate enough to have an alternative Pediatric MD in your area, please realize that the typical Pediatrician's career goal is to have all his/her patients fully vaccinated! Resist vaccination in a Pediatrician's office and you are going to get read the riot act. Be ready for it if you choose to go.
In my experience, Family Doctors are a much better choice as the primary caregiver for children than Pediatricians. Family Doctors are usually much more open minded when parents express misgivings about vaccinations and either want to opt out completely or delay the vaccination schedule for a few years.
I have not heard of any Family Docs dropping patients for not vaccinating for religious reasons. There are probably some out there, but it seems to be a much less prevalent practice than with Pediatricians.
Family Doctors do not answer to the American Academy of Pediatrics, whose primary purpose is to execute the bidding of Big Pharma and administer vaccines to all children based on the overly rigid and excessive CDC vaccination schedule. This gives Family Doctors a greater degree of freedom in assessing their patients individual needs, not just the assembly line approach to vaccination taken by Pediatricians.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
More Information
Doctor Terrorizes Naked Mother of 3 in Exam Room Over Lost Vaccination Bonus
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Comments (128)
Pingback: Vaccination: Defending Your Right to Know and Freedom to Choose
Brandi Shaw via Facebook
Alec Duncan, a scientist who works with vaccines came out and spoke against them, partly from what they put in them and other things, so i guess he is someone who doesn't know how vaccines work I guess. Thats terrifying a vaccine scientist that doesn't know anything about vaccines, kinda like the doctors who use fear and misunderstanding to get people to have them. If you take his account for truth, there is almost no test on the ingredients used, not all of them anyway. They recommend vaccines to pregnant woman but never bothered to test it on PREGNANT WOMAN. Also read an article about CDC purposely hiding out a study by their own people that shows increase risk if autism and neurological disorders. You seem to leave out the negatives, odd.
Charity Woj via Facebook
This is another great reason to interview a doctor before choosing to hire them…whatever your stance on the matter. As always thanks for sharing!
Maryam Ximena Garzon via Facebook
Graciela Zaveri
Robb Naimark via Facebook
Myopic best applies to articles like this and those who buy the no vaccination misinformation. Try a historical look at the era before vaccinations. Compare the effects of rampant diseases on individuals and communities to the unproven anecdotal "dangers" of vaccination. (real dangers exist, but their risks are underwhelming compared to the prior era.) And besides, the only reason self-righteous parents can be proud of how healthy their unvaccinated children are is that most of those around them have been responsibly vaccinated.
Larissa Katriina Lee via Facebook
I still wonder Sarah… how can you give advice like this and not worry about people's safety? Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride said that if baby's gut flora is good the vaccines can't harm him. Or are you against her too, the GAPS diet?
Sara Reimold via Facebook
Healthy, unvaccinated kids rarely need to go to the doctor. That's my strategy and it's working really well.
ReNee O. McDonald via Facebook
It's so interesting that those that think somehow those that don't vaccinate haven't studied and researched the "big picture" and are stupid to science. when in fact we could wipe away your smug comments with all the researched studies and facts and even the proof that the rest of the world realizes the dangers of 46 shots under the age of two, but why try? You won't listen let alone go look up the studies and research yourself. You regurgitate what a doctor/media has told you.
Lindsay Krey Gillham via Facebook
Lots of commenters advocate no vaccines and a good diet instead. If eating home grown, non-GMO foods, with no pesticides can save you from illness, life expectancy 200 years ago wouldn't have been 40. Of course eating healthy is good for your body, but science has brought us a long way. Disease of all sort was a huge problem 200 years ago. We finally have good answers for that. Seems like the no vaccines crowd isnt thinking about the whole picture.
Amy Roberts via Facebook
Are people really arguing about the positive result of polio, measles, rubella vacs? I get the fluffyness of chicken pox, however.
Patrick Moore via Facebook
The study about gut flora has been completely misinterpreted here. The scientists found that more diversity in the gut microbiota may enable more robust immune responses to the vaccine. People seem to only see the things that support the quackery they believe.
Liisa Mackey via Facebook
It's not the disease being injected that is the concern, but the other ingredients contained in the shot that are doing damage. If you could inject a disease to raise immunity without all of the other toxic carriers, then maybe the science would be valid.
Liisa Mackey via Facebook
The only thing that will protect us from disease is an optimally-functioning immune system. This requires, among other things, balanced gut flora. However, vaccines cause damage to the gut, thereby compromising the immune system. Furthermore, neurotoxins (and other toxins) can cause developmental damage. Besides impairing our natural ability to ward off disease, vaccines add insult to injury by irreparably damaging our bodies.
Not vaccinating alone is not enough. The state of our conventional food supply is contributing equally to widespread health issues (diabetes, obesity, heart disease, cancer, etc.) due to GMOs, use of toxic pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, and reduced levels of nutrition from depleted soil.
Add to this the overuse of chemicals and toxic products in the home, and other OTC and prescribed medications, and we end up living in a toxic soup.
Go green. Grow your own. Eat organic, unprocessed food. Support local/sustainable/organic farming practices. Join the fight against the unconscionable practices of Big Pharma, Big Agra, and all involved government agencies.
Live clean and you will never have to fear disease.
Kate Glassford via Facebook
Very well written article.
Patrick Moore via Facebook
Here is some "knowledge" for you:
In 1796, Edward Jenner, a country doctor working in southern England, found he could protect people from smallpox by inoculating them with cowpox, a related virus. Jenner's vaccine eliminated smallpox–a disease that had killed as many as 500 million people–from the face of the earth. By inducing the immunity that follows natural infection without having to pay the price of natural infection, vaccines have dramatically reduced deaths from rabies, diphtheria, tetanus, polio, measles, rubella, hepatitis, chickenpox, rotavirus, influenza, yellow fever, typhoid, and meningitis.
In 1854, John Snow, a British physician, investigated an outbreak of cholera in London that had killed more than six hundred people. Snow traced the problem to a water pump on Broad Street. After he removed the pump handle, the outbreak stopped. Snow's observation launched the field of epidemiology and lifesaving sanitation programs.
In 1876, Robert Koch, a German physician, isolated the bacteria that cause anthrax. Knowing that specific bacteria caused specific diseases, scientists could now find ways to treat them.
In 1928, Alexander Fleming, a Scottish biologist, noticed that a mold (Penicillium notatum) growing in broth was excreting a substance that killed surrounding bacteria. He called it penicillin. Once-fatal diseases were now treatable.
In 1944, Oswald Avery, an American scientist, found that DNA was the substance from which genes and chromosomes were made, allowing disorders like sickle-cell anemia and cystic fibrosis to be defined in genetic terms.
Vaccines, antibiotics, sanitation, purified drinking water, and better hygiene allowed people to live longer. From the beginning to the end of the twentieth century, the life span of Americans had increased by thirty years. None of this increase occurred because healers balanced humors, restored chi, or offered sacrifices to the gods; it occurred because we finally understood what caused diseases and how to treat or prevent them.
Clearly just "big pharma" trying to make money. You people probably believe Bush planned 9/11 as well.
Patrick Moore via Facebook
Before vaccines, Americans could expect that every year diphtheria would kill fifteen thousand people, mostly young children; rubella (German measles) would cause as many as twenty thousand babies to be born blind, deaf, or mentally disabled; polio would permanently paralyze fifteen thousand children and kill a thousand; mumps would be a common cause of deafness; and a bacterium called Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) would cause hundreds of children to die of suffocation from epiglottitis–no different than being smothered by a pillow. In the developed world, vaccines have completely or virtually eliminated these. During the past few years, Americans have witnessed an increase in hospitalizations and deaths from diseases like whooping cough, measles, mumps, and bacterial meningitis, because some parents have become more frightened by vaccines than by the diseases they prevent.
Kerry Letrick Henderson via Facebook
Knowledge is Power, Always educate, don't let anyone scare you into believing injection Poison is ok by any means!!!!
Patrick Moore via Facebook
Total quackery!
Rebecca Simpson via Facebook
Channy don't comment on this anymore it is these people that are allowing disease rear up again as herd immunity decreases, unfortunately the world is full of idiots and bigots. Lets hope their children and grandchildren don't succumb to one if these disease thru lack on immunisation.
Keri Hessel via Facebook
… And the government gets the vaccines for free?
Amara Russell via Facebook
Thank you Sarah…the campaign is on to sell even more vaccines and to convince unwitting parents who just want to protect their children that "protection" requires an untested vaccination schedule that comprises a long-term drug regimen designed to manipulate and distort the developing immune system permanently, by injecting hazardous materials (all vaccines are legally handled, transported & disposed of as haz-mat under strict EPA haz-mat guidelines), heavy metals (synergistically more toxic in concert, and with existing body burden; who measures that for you?), detergents, foreign proteins, foreign DNA/recombinant DNA, and more toxic substances including known & unknown contaminants.
If they told parents the truth – or if parents injected their child themselves with these substances – it would be considered attempted murder. Would you put this 'toxic soup' on a spoon and feed it to your child to "protect" her/him?
Keri Hessel via Facebook
Did you even read the article Chantelle? Most of the cases of Measles occurred in vaccinated people. The same is happening with Whooping Cough.
Chantelle Simpson via Facebook
It has also been scientifically proven that vaccination does not cause Autism. I spoke with the head of pediatrics at the Brisbane Royal Children's Hospital and she is privy to all the latest medical journals on vaccination and stands by vaccinations and has 3 children of her own who are fully vaccinated. Don't you think that if there was the slightest chance of one of her children dying or having complications do you think she would still vaccinate them. She said no. Also. the internet is both good and bad in regards to research but it you want anything to back up what you believe be it aliens or ghosts or harmful vaccination there will be some websites that will provide you with what you need. Smarten up parents of the world. You are ultimately making a decision that not only affects your children but all of the children in the community around you.
Chantelle Simpson via Facebook
I understand people have the right to choose what they think is right for their children but when it comes to vaccination there should not be a choice. The following is one of many news articles related to the damage parents are doing around the world by not vaccinating their children. http://www.ibtimes.com/measles-rates-triple-2013-due-unvaccinated-communities-1499318
Larissa Katriina Lee via Facebook
Sarah, surely the negative comments are as valuable.
Christopher Pequin via Facebook
The results of the survey you posted in this article are really encouraging.
Amy VandenBosch via Facebook
Jonathon if you are helping to develop vaccines please help remove the toxins and the use of aborted babies.
Brandi Shaw via Facebook
Nothing 'radical' about this site, Tara Smith Dominguez, i guess you should opt out. Alternatives are being pointed out, guess its radical to some, but to the rest of us i am not willing to accept the status quo. The risk of accepting it is too much.
Reanna Santero via Facebook
Thanks, Sarah! I needed to read this!
ReNee O. McDonald via Facebook
Then Jonathan, I hope you are looking at better ways to protect those that are immuno compromised so that the falsehood of herd immunity can actually be put to bed and mass vaccinations will come to an end.
Tara Smith Dominguez via Facebook
Ok this had become a far more radical site than I originally thought. I enjoy the healthy recipes but have lately started to question some of the radical view points. I think I should
Opt out.
Angela Conner Padalecki via Facebook
Ashley Conner
Roxi Lozier via Facebook
Thanks for your contribution to keeping our kids healthy, Jonathon!
Jonathon Dunn via Facebook
I'm usually the one reminding the doc that vaccinations are due as I'm a scientist that has developed vaccinations.
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Rachel McCoy (@cali_girl25) (@cali_girl25)
How to Resist Pediatrician Pro-Vaccination Tactics – The Healthy Home Economist http://t.co/nl4dJE1
Michael Acanfora (@BayonneChiro) (@BayonneChiro) (@BayonneChiro)
How to Resist Pediatrician Pro-Vaccination Tactics – The Healthy Home Economist
Michael Acanfora (@BayonneChiro) (@BayonneChiro) (@BayonneChiro)
How to Resist Pediatrician Pro-Vaccination Tactics – The Healthy Home Economist
Michael Acanfora (@BayonneChiro) (@BayonneChiro) (@BayonneChiro)
How to Resist Pediatrician Pro-Vaccination Tactics – The Healthy Home Economist
Thanks for sharing your views.
I'm afraid you're markedly in error. You write;
"In an outbreak of mumps last year, 63% of the children who fell ill were completely up to date with their vaccinations!"
Yes, but you fail to grasp how herd immunity works, and consciously avoided admitting this was not a general outbreak.
"…. up to 600 verified and suspected cases are involved in the current outbreak which is centered around an Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn."
No-one claims vaccines are magic. The virus entered this small community, was continually passed from person to person, bombarding the immune system until eventually it overcame the antigens.
If you are unable to understand, or impart the mecahnism by which this occurred may I suggest you are not in a position to offer advice on vaccination.
Of the many thousands of other people members of this community came into contact with, health professionals and the wonderful pediatricians who saved their lives – not a single case was reported. This entire event again proves how successful vaccination is. Herd immunity via vaccination in fact prevented a single case. If you cannot see this, do not write about vaccination please. Write about toys or nursery rhymes.
You bring up "fear". Yet you write with clear intention to scare; "The benefits of not vaccinating far outweigh the risks of vaccinating. Vaccination carries a huge risk of lifelong autoimmune disease for your child."
Excuse me? "a huge risk of lifelong autoimmune disease".
There is simply no evidence for this, as evidenced by your lack of explanation or source material. Let's just cut to the chase. The bulk of people reading this are vaccinated. They suffered no ill effects and know no-one who did. No doubt many are immersed in propaganda (even you mention the discredited AVN).
Then you mislead with a classic distortion of risk/benefit.
"On the other hand, the risk of not vaccinating carries the relatively small risk of infectious disease."
There is up to a 5,000 and 1,000 times greater risk of meningitis and encephalitis from measles and a five times greater risk of seizure disorders compared to the MMR vaccine. Death and the brain damaging Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis — SSPE — are not associated with MMR.
From measles cases the rate may be as many as one in 8,000 and one in 2,500 respectively.
Mortality from measles induced encephalitis alone is around 15%. Read that again. No deaths from MMR. No brain damage. Of course there are make believe ramblings and the unconscionable use of disabled adults who die in their 20s or 30s passed off as "vaccine deaths". That's all though – untruths. SSPE is almost always fatal. Measles contributes to 50% of the 1.6 million deaths caused each year by vaccine-preventable childhood diseases.
1.6 million, Sarah. One.Point.Six.Million.DEAD A human being could live for 10,000 years being regularly vaccinated and still not have any reaction.
The AVN however erroneously likens vaccines to drugs suggesting they have adverse side effects akin to drug side effects. A statement of ignorance in itself. This is appalling given the drug schedules children who catch any vaccine preventable disease must endure. The encephalitis society publish those figures. Read more on real risk/benefit here:
The incidence of hearing loss is estimated to be in the region of 1 per 15,000 cases. Reaction to trivalent vaccination is < 1 in 1 million. Mumps can trigger insulin dependent diabetes. In pregnant women is leads to spontaneous abortion.
Measles/mumps are leading causes of blindness/deafness. When your fear mongering succeeds in dropping vaccination rates below 93% outbreaks will re-occur. Disability and death will soar. Pertussis will kill tiny babies. Polio will be back to destroy lives and cost billions.
The same will occur with other diseases. All leading to death and horrible disability.
You can tell your grandchildren. "I helped do this…. I killed millions of children and disabled many thousands times more".
Mo amount of Blessings will change that.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
What you don't seem to understand or choose to ignore is that herd immunity is a myth when applied to the vaccinated population (it only applies to naturally gained immunity) AND that vaccination rates are already way under the 93% magic number you cited given that vaccinations only provide extremely temporary immunity of just a few years (which is why all these boosters are being advised for teenagers and college students) … so folks who haven't had boosters in years (the vast majority of the vaccinated) no longer have ANY immunity whatsoever.
Whoops! There goes your herd immunity baloney!
No child.
I guess that is your copy and paste comment on Belinda and Bill Gates foundation's page.
Pertussis gives immunity of up to 10-15 years. That is the only vaccine that wanes. You are mistaken. "extremely temporary immunity of just a few years". Then why are vaccinated not falling ill? Only pertussis and incomplete schedules require boosters.
Vaccination rates are falling and we see the outbreaks reported every day. Read the news, consult history to see the reality of herd immunity.
I cannot reason with a belief system. You are mistaken. That is all.
May God have mercy on your soul
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I just love when you elitists bring God into this discussion. Like you have God on your side? Fat chance. You're the ones killing babies:
Here's a post written by an MD debunking your "herd immunity" holy grail:
On the subject of swine flu, a recent study in the UK found that 44% of the population had been exposed to swine flu and developed antibodies. 44% of the population did not 'get' swine flu though, not according to official stats prior to this study – though how anyone could have known one way or the other is beyond me. People who felt unwell were told not to attend a clinic or hospital. Diagnosis was made over the phone by NHS Direct
A few years ago, I had a health crisis. I was covered in a horrible rash that was almost unbearable. I had even wished I could just scrape my skin off!! After seeing a naturopath, it was discovered that I had DH (a form of celiacs). During my testing it was also revealed that I had c. diff.!! I firmly believed this is what triggered my body to respond to gluten in such a horrific way. I have since been on the path to better health. I don't know that I will ever even try to eat gluten again, even if I was told that it was safe for me to. It was a frightening thing to discover that a food could wreak such havoc on your body — even when you are buying the whole grain and grinding fresh flour for fresh home baked goods!!!!
We eat mostly meat, veggies, and fruits…..almost nothing processed not a lot of grains. We even are blessed to have raw dairy and my newly adopted son is on the home made formula (raw milk version). BTW we were told that he had acid reflux (he was medicated with 2 different proton pump inhibitors) and a milk allergy — both of which have disappeared since on the nourishing formula instead of the 57% corn syrup solids that the doctors prescribed!!!
In this journey to good health my family and I have not acquired the taste for fermented things. My desire is to slowly add things in. With this in mind, do you think that taking a really good probiotic would be sufficient along with the fermented cod liver oil and butter oil from Green Pastures? I really want to jumpstart our health, especially my daughter who is a picky eater.
Thanks for your blog!!! It has been such a help to me on my journey to better health!
Well said Stefanie!
I've lost count of how many pediatric practices we've been turned away from for not vaccinating. There is no resisting their pressure; you either submit to the shots or leave.
The last time we moved, I had to find a new doc and began calling down the list of those covered on our insurance. I had to preface each phone call with, "Before I waste your time and mine, I have to ask: Is it your group's policy to refuse care to unvaccinated children?"
After maybe 4 or 5 calls ending in 4 or 5 refusals, I had had enough. The last refusal got the full force of my frustration. I asked the nurse, "Are there any other groups against which your office policy routinely discriminates? Parents who expose their children to second-hand smoke? Families whose children are obese? Mothers who will not breastfeed? After all, are these not "high risk" groups?"
She assured me that the docs in her office believe very strongly in helping children in need and in the benefits conferred by vaccines and that they even travel overseas to bring health care to "disadvantaged" communities.
Incredulous, I replied, "You're telling me the doctors in your office will travel an ocean away to tend sick children in need, but they will refuse health care for a sick child in their own town?"
"Well, uh, it's just that they want to protect the other kids in the waiting room who might be exposed, too" she said.
"IF the vaccines work, then aren't their patients already PROTECTED?"
I thanked her for her time and hung up. *sigh*
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Can we say "Family Doctors"!!! I don't waste my time with Pediatricians.
I'm sure that was the last time I bother with peds. To add insult to injury, the pervasiveness of childhood chronic allergies, asthma, etc. has changed to become the "norm" of pediatric medical thinking and practice. They no longer seem to think such chronic illness as something gone wrong, just normal. This is not okay.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I completely agree … "abnormal" has now become "normal". Sounds like a cop out to me – giving into the physical degeneration of our children instead of fighting back and finding solutions that work such as the nutritional principles Dr. Price wrote about.
I think what she was probably trying to say is that there are people that cannot receive vaccinations (for whatever reason, be it age, other complicating/mitigating factors, etc.) that would still be vulnerable if your un-immunized child were to be at the doctor in the waiting room, not necessarily that vaccinated children are at risk. I know the pertussis vaccination cannot be given to newborns, and those are the children mostly at risk for developing complications from pertussis, so maybe that was it?
As another, more personal example, when I was pregnant with my daughter, I was exposed to someone with Rubella. I suffered no ill-effects from it myself (a fever and rash for a few days were nothing to concern myself with), but my little girl has permanent hearing loss from this event. http://www.deafblind.com/measles.html
So, while I respect your right to do what you would like with your own children, and that most diseases we vaccinate against are likely not to cause harm to healthy kids, please at least recognize that other people can be affected. And that's probably why some pediatricians express concern for others in the waiting room, not that they are trying to be difficult.
That being said, my own pediatrician would never refuse to see a child because of his or her parents' stance on vaccinations (and yes, I have asked her). I think that is just plain wrong, no matter where we stand on the vaccination issue. Your children deserve exceptional care, regardless of vaccination history. I hope you are able to find a doctor that meets the needs of your family.
I did find a couple of links that might help you in your search?
Stefanie, I appreciate your response. What is assumed, however, in the doctors' reasoning, and yours, is that vaccinated children won't contract so-called "vaccine preventable illnesses". And yet, every outbreak in the news makes it plain that vaccinated kids and adults are indeed among the afflicted.
I'm very sorry for what happened to your daughter. When I was pregnant with my first, my blood work showed that I was not immune to measles, mumps, or rubella, even though I had had all my childhood vaccines. I submitted to the recommended MMR booster just after my son was born because of the potential harm to a future baby if I were to fall ill while pregnant.
Just eighteen months later, I was pregnant again. That round of blood work ALSO showed that I was NOT immune for measles, mumps, and rubella. You will not convince me that I should continue to have shots that aren't working. Unfortunately, people are being convinced by the millions that getting shots will protect them, and it just isn't so. It is a false sense of security only.
Do you know if the person from you contracted rubella was vaccinated?
In your case, I can completely understand that you wouldn't want to take a vaccine that will be ineffective. That makes no sense! But most people do receive immunization from the vaccine – 95% of those who receive the MMR or monovalent measles vaccine at 12 months of age or older are immune after the first dose. After the second dose, 99.7% of those immunized are protected. Immunity is lifelong. For MOST people, the vaccine will be effective – and you are just the type of person who will benefit from those around you being vaccinated.
The little girl I was exposed to was not vaccinated. This was during the height of the Austism-MMR connection days and her mother (understandably) chose not to vaccinate. Although I am saddened by what happened to my daughter and have to live with the ramifications of it each and every day, I do not blame my friend. Like every one else, she was just doing what she thought was best.
What concerns me is that I see more and more people making choices on vaccinations based on false data, correlations, and fear. I agree that every parent has the right to make their own decisions for their own children, and that pro-vaccine information can be biased as well. But I think each side has its good and bad points, and I see both sides try to "educate" through fear, rather than through solid facts. What makes me sad is when I go to both pro- and anti-vaccine sites and I see (mostly) moms tearing each other apart over this issue. Rather than fighting the issue itself, we have started fighting each other, and I think that is probably the most horrible thing of all about it. We are all parents and this job is tough enough without judging each other and making each other feel badly for the decisions we make. I am sure you very carefully made your decisions on vaccinations and do it with the single most intention of keeping your children safe. And that is how I arrived at my decision to continue vaccinating my children (though I wouldn't necessarily call myself pro-vaccination). I just want to do what is best for my family after much consideration, research, and prayer.
In any case, I do wish you luck finding a doctor that will see your children. I am outraged on your behalf that it is such a difficult task and hope you will update us when you find someone who meets your needs!
Again, a well-reasoned response. But, how does anyone know that 95% of MMR vaccine recipients 12 months and older are immune? I'm not aware of any titers taken during my entire childhood to check for immunity, nor do I know a single other child or adult who has titers taken before or after vaccines.
And as for my not showing immunity to MMR, I have no explanation. I assure you, I am not immunocompromised. I was exposed to chicken pox many times through childhood and never developed it. My sister finally caught it at 14, and we tried to make sure I got it then (I was 11), but still didn't. I have had the flu only one time in my life.
The effectiveness of vaccines is debatable at best. What I do know is that the formaldehyde, aluminum, etc. in vaccines do not strike me as healthful additions to my physical makeup or my children's. So I'll pass.
My oldest child is almost 8, and we've been battling to find and keep a pediatrician since he was born. It's no longer a rare thing for pediatricians to institute a "my way or the highway" policy. Health care indeed.
There are many studies which reflect the MMR vaccine's efficacy, but again, I am sure you could quote many sources that cite its inefficacy and round and round we could go. And I don't want to argue or toss statistics around, it defeats the purpose and puts mother against mother, in which no one wins!
I do believe we share a common goal: MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE EFFICACY AND ADVERSE/POSITIVE EFFECTS OF VACCINES.
I urge all parents to write to their legislative representatives and also the AAP, DEMANDING that more research go into this incredibly controversial topic. All parents have the right to unbiased data and to make their decisions based upon it!
Contact your senators:
Contact the house:
What about your state's governor?
And your state legislator?
Go on, talk to the APP. . . they will listen if enough of us shout out!
We can fight each other, or we can fight the misinformation! Let's do it!
Blessings all,
There is something I really do not comprehend about the anti-vaccine population…not one of you has a medical degree. Have you ever noticed that all physicians and nurses vaccinate their children. "Don't go to a pediatrician???" Are you really suggesting taking your child to a family practice where they have not been properly school in pediatric illnesses? Don't get me wrong…I have met some wonderful family docs in my practice, but they certainly are not specialists in the very different world of pediatrics vs. adult healthcare. I am just so flabbergasted at the comments and "facts" you think you know. 50 years from now, the world is going to be a very scary place plagued with illnesses we could have prevented. Thanks for putting my children in danger, your children in danger, and our children's children in danger because of your ignorance. I am all about people's rights, but I have to say….it may come to the point where we make vaccination a law. Because if you think about it, not vaccinating your child is an act of child abuse. End of story.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Thanks for this boneheaded comment! This is going to make my Weekly Comment Spotlight post! ALL physicians and nurses vaccinate their children? Wow, you really live under a rock don't you? Have you seen the anti-vax post I have on this blog written by an MD which debunks your herd immunity propaganda? You need to get out more!
One MD. Who no longer practices. So he can make money off of anti-vax propaganda. Who has a "theory" about herd immunity. Yeah. Someone does need to get out more and it isn't HCP.
And HOW is that different from what you accuse pharma companies of doing?
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Grace .. this is not the opinion of one MD. He is simply explaining the faulty logic in the use of herd immunity by the pro vax crowd. It does take critical thinking skills to get what he is talking about which the majority of folks who support vaccination lack which explains why they fall for the pro vax propaganda in the first place.
Actually, lots of peer reviewed studies have proven that vaccines are safe. You just discard them as valid because of who produced them. Notice one thing here: You asked for sources, I am providing them. Most people will not do so. And I will every. single. time.
Every single study listed here discusses the safety profile of vaccinations. Every single one was published in a peer reviewed journal. Of course, the AAP did provide this list, so I guess my challenge to you is, will you read these studies? Will you give them a fair chance? Or will you automatically discard the possibility because of your own predisposition? And what does that say about your critical thinking skills??
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Exactly. I don't buy studies from the fox guarding the hen house and if you do, you may wish to rethink that approach! Look how often studies of drugs (Vioxx case in point) where the data is fudged to produce a particular outcome and then it takes YEARS for this deception to come out and only after thousands of people have died (again, talking about Vioxx .. there are plenty of other examples). The swine flu "safety study" (what a joke) last year just showed that people didn't die within a few days of being injected. Does an objective source study long term effects or any increases in chronic illness years later? No. Have there been any studies comparing nonvaxed children to vaxed children? No.
Woah! I had no idea Paed's were now considered the "god of all doctors"!!
I have not once EVER taken my children to a paed and quite frankly I never will. My fully unvaccinated children have been to a hospital twice in their lives combined, for a crushed toe and a broken wrist. We eat a very nutritious diet, that I am proactive about, and they aren't sick! When they get the occasional cold, they get over it quickly. Stop it with the drama already, my children are waaaaay healthier than your children, and if we wanna play THAT game, thanks so much for putting my children in danger by giving them vaccines so things will become more resistant and mutate! My children's children will be a lot healthier as they will have well nourished parents who don't have a crap load of chemicals and heavy metals in their systems thank you very much.
Oh and by the way, if your vaccines work so well, why are you worried about my children giving your kids anything?? Shouldn't your kids technically be like…PROTECTED???
Wow…and what kind of degree do you have? Maybe you majored in stupidity. How irresponsible for you to pedal such garbage. There has been no literature made available that proves immunizations is linked to autism or other such problems. Because parents are believing these false statements made by freaks like yourself, we now are seeing a resurgence of dangerous diseases. I for one, as well as many, many others, take my role as a parent more serious than that. The risk of any side effect from an immunization is thousands of times less than the risk of getting the disease and surviving it without complications. Would you not make your child wear a helmet when he rides a bike or wear a seat belt in the car? Really, its sad people get sucked into believing this nonsense because a few weirdos make some uneducated comments or a bimbo movie star writes a book!
People who have watched their child change overnight after a vaccine don't need "literature" to prove what just happened. People don't get "sucked in", they have EYES!! Go hang out with some people who have autistic kids and ask them when they noticed something wasn't right. Spend a few days in their shoes then call them a freak for not wanting to pump their kids full of heavy metals and toxic chemicals.
how funny that these "resurgences" of measles and whooping cough are among mainly vaccinated populations.. Shouldn't the people who get the disease only be the UN vaccinated ones?? So why are the VACCIATED ones also getting it??
Hmmm.. Seems like DUD science to me.
I would not want to married to any of you. Y'all are crazy.
I didn't read all the comments, but it would be best to find a D.O. or a holistic doctor instead of your traditional M.D. And yeah I agree 99% of pediatricians are completely useless. They've been indoctrinated by pharma so well that they will never learn any scientific based medicine on their own, and they certainly didn't learn any in med school.
I feel like i am going to be sick after reading this, My son went to a pediatrician regularly when he was a baby and was vaccinated and now has major behavioral problems. He was recently diagnosed with SEVERE ADHD and most of his symptoms are also on the autism scale, which he is currently being diagnosed. my daughter not as regularly because we didn't have the same benefits or access to a pediatrician and she doesn't have any behavior issues but does tend to have a harder time to get well than any of us. I wish i had been more educated about how they were made and what was used when i was a new mom. It is sickening to know that they use aborted fetus organs and other animal parts, let alone the chemicals that cause other bodily function failures and cancer. It really makes me sick knowing that i have been manipulated instead of educated when it came to vaccines. My eyes are open and my baby to be will not be put at risk! Thank you, Sarah, for you educational information.
Anonymous, you can heal your children! look up gapsdiet.com it is amazing. using good nutrition to heal these neurological disorders, there is always a gut link.
Thank you so much for your well written articles. I wanted to comment on one thing – the bullying is not always stemming from the pediatrician/doctor. We have a wonderful doctor (family practice) who has never been pushy about vaccinations and was very understanding of our delayed, selective schedule…it took three tries to find a good one. About two years ago he received a warning from the state about the high percentage of patients he had on delayed/alternative/none at all vaccinations schedules. He was forced to mail out a letter to every one of his patients informing them that they were "behind" on their schedules, offer to schedule a vax visit, and to document that he had offered the lacking vaccines at EVERY visit, INCLUDING SICK VISITS. The alternative was to be decertified, which in essence meant the state would no longer pay for uninsured patients at his office to receive their vaccinations. He is still very understanding of a delayed schedule, and manages to meet their requirements in a way that is not at all pushy and in fact makes his own disagreeing opinion clear. That said, it's frightening that in some cases it is the doctor's themselves that are being bullied into pushing vaccinations. The mailing of this letter coincided with a number of my friends being dropped by their doctors for selective vaccination schedules; I'm sure it was no coincidence. They probably received the same warnings from the board and decided it was easier to just drop the patients and get their percentage back up quickly.
Thanks for this insightful and informative article! And, here is one quote that I'm adding to my quote wall, Sarah!
"The most intelligent people frequently turn out to be the most myopic."
How true!!
Thanks for taking the heat for putting out this info.
You are absolutely right that vaccines and herd immunity are a bunch of garbage. My vaccinated children actually spread disease to someone else! I would do just about anything to avoid vaccinations now in most cases, including possibly moving to another state.
When my kids were little (born 1985 and 1988), info like this wasn't available. Through a series of circumstances, I started but didn't finish the course of vaccinations for my kids. It was never an issue since I home-schooled them. At that time, I believed what the doctors said about vaccines but didn't worry too much since they were healthy and we lived in the country.
Something very interesting happened, though, when we got insurance again. At ages 14 and 11, I took them to get the ones they had missed, including whooping cough, plus chicken pox, which was optional.
Surprise! Surprise! (in Gomer Pyle style.) In about a year, they both got whooping cough! They also gave it to my nephew, who had been vaccinated as a baby!
Now, you could rationalize something like this happening once, to one child. But to three vaccinated kids–two of them recently vaccinated? Hold on–there's more.
Then my husband got shingles. Even though the doctor said it would be "impossible", my youngest, then 14, soon got a terrible case of chicken pox (caused by same virus as shingles). Overcome with fatigue and a sore throat, my son couldn't eat and could barely move for a week. He lost 10 pounds in that time. The doctor didn't prescribe any treatment other than palliative treatment.
I have read two websites that claim to provide medical information which say the vaccine is 100% effective in preventing severe chicken pox. Balderdash!
And to anyone who tries to explain away my experience as just "anecdotal" in comparison to "scientific studies", I would say this: You might have questioned the conventional wisdom, too, if it were your own two children barking like dogs for weeks until they cried, or your muscular 14-year-old wasting away as pus-filled blisters–some nearly an inch across–covered him from head to foot, leaving hideous scars. (They got infected even though he was scrupulous about not scratching.) Especially if multiple doctors had told you this was impossible!
Yes, they might have gotten the diseases without vaccines. But if the vaccines don't really work, I think I'd just as soon take my chances without their added risks. And I now take everything every doctor tells me with a grain of salt, too.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Honey, you need to write a blog! You have some serious writing skills! Thank you for sharing your story!
I just read this post, I love when you talk about vaccines (I was looking for info on fluoride and tea, but that must have not been you talking about it).
I haven't had any trouble with doctors, I'm firm with them and best of all my kids are *very healthy* so we're only in the office once a year to get my daughter approved for OT/ST/PT (no vaccines, but she does have autism) and then we're on our way. I think it's hard for them to argue the point that my kid will get sick and die from these diseases when she obviously has a very good immune system! The ped will sometimes bring up this or that new study and I'll promise to look it over.
Sometimes the nurses get snippy with me, but as soon as I start asking for statistics to back up their scare tactics they back down. I think what helps me the most is that I'm extremely comfortable with my decision, so I can stay calm while they get all worked up in the drama.
Donald Pennington
You forgot the biggest and most pervasive tactic: Intelligence.
Must resist all intelligence.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Not much intelligence going on in a Pediatrician's office, Donald. At least the ones I've been to!
Sarah, I very much enjoy your blog and agree with all of your nutritional advice. Thank you for all that you do to educate people about sound nutrition and healthy eating that runs counter to the mainstream advice. However, I think you speaking out against vaccines is irresponsible and morally wrong. The study linking vaccines to autism years ago was recently shown to have botched data. There are millions of theories on the internet about what causes certain diseases and to give up a potentially life saving medical treatment because a fringe minority links it with autoimmune disorders when all evidence is to the contrary, is irresponsible. What about the moral implications? What about the infants who have died who were too young to be vaccinated and came in contact with kids who were intentionally unvaccinated and contracted one of these diseases. Upon initially hearing these arguments I agreed with the no-vaccine stance until I actually looked at the science. They do way more good than harm- the risks are completely exaggerated and if a consumer wants to get nutritional advice on the internet so be it (and i do!) but I think it's outrageous to put kids lives at risk on the advice of health bloggers. An interesting book about this phenomenon is "The Panic Virus" by Seth Mnookin.
Respectfully, Emily
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Hi Emily, I respect your opinion, but I feel very strongly about my position on vaccination and will not stop speaking out about it. I made my decision against vaccinating 13 years ago and it was based on hours and hours of research. I am so happy to say that 40% of parents are now openly refusing or delaying vaccination for their children and this is up from just 1-2% back when my first child was born. Progress is a wonderful thing! I realize not all folks are going to be able to grasp the size of the complete crock we've been fed about vaccinations for so many decades, but some will and it is for those people that I write these posts.
quote from Emily "What about the infants who have died who were too young to be vaccinated and came in contact with kids who were intentionally unvaccinated and contracted one of these diseases."???
My sisters fully vaccinated son's whole class got the whooping cough booster shot at 4 yrs old. None of them refused the shot. And what do you know?? This fully vaccinated child GOT WHOOPING COUGH!! And then passed it onto his fully vaccinated brother, mother, father. They then passed it onto my friend's fully vaccinated 2 son's, her unvaccinated daughter, her and her husband. They then passed it onto me, my husband and our two unvaccinated sons. We all had it for 3 months. We all quarantined ourselves for that time so as not to spread it further. We all were as sick as each other, young, old, vaxxed, unvaxxed. We all got it from VACCINATED children at THE TIME OF VACCINATION.
So, in my experience and opinion, vaccines DON'T DO SQUAT as far as keep disease at bay. What they do do, however, is cause autoimmune diseases, autism, big time gut issues, etc etc. I have seen this happen. I have many many friends who have had a perfectly fine, well and normal baby, and then overnight they change. They no longer can get eye contact, they scream for hours, they are very very wrong and very very different. This is called ANECDOTAL evidence, and there is plenty of it out there, no science is going to change it. Because you see, Emily, Science can sway any way you want it to sway, based on who is funding the study. So let's say, for instance, that a pharmaceutical company is funding a study…hmmm… their "research" is going to conclude that their drug or vaccine is perfectly safe. Yep. Even if it isn't. And then they pay the drug administration governmental authorities to pass it and there you go!!. But I could go on for hours. Don't just stop at this article. Google GAPS diet and read how drugs and vaccines destroy gut bacteria which is linked to the brain functions and how all autistic children have major gut problems. When these gut problems are fixed with a special wholefoods diet, their autism symptoms are gone! Then maybe you will stop believing all the mainstream garbage that is drip fed to us thru the media and start realising just cos they say there's no link doesn't mean they're telling the truth. There is definately a link. You're just not looking for it. Don't believe everything you read.
I really appreciate this post. With my oldest son we fought tooth and nail to split up his shots and spread them out over 4 years. With my second son we started slowly at 6 months and and then changed our minds and didn't complete his vaccinations. He is vaccinated to the level of a 4 month old and he is 5 and 1/2 years old. When we had our last son we did not give him a single vaccination. However,I now work for my children's pediatrician and have learned that there is another side to the story. Although this particular doctor is flexible and looks at a child's medical history and family history, and will delay vaccinations even when parents don't question it if he feels that the child is not ready, doctors like him DO come under fire, not just from their colleagues, but also from the Department of Health. They regularly and without warning audit and flag pediatricians who are "non-compliant" with the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines for vaccination. There have been threats of shutting down practices based on the doctors being a parent advocate and delaying or skipping vaccinations. All this to say, it wouldn't hurt us to be a bit more understanding of the pressures that the doctors are under. Thank you for your post!
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Hi Leah, thank you for this post. Pediatricians such as you describe are worth their weight in gold, no doubt! A THINKING physician … how very rare and especially for a pediatrician!
Stanley Fishman
I am an attorney. I am not giving legal advice in this comment. This is how I see the situation.
Every state and the federal government prohibit doctors from discriminating against patients based on race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, color, and other such factors.
However, most states allow a doctor to fire a patient for not following the treatment recommendations of the doctor.
In the case of vaccine refusal on religious grounds, the parent would claim that the doctor was discriminating against her on the basis of religion, and the doctor would claim that she was fired because the doctor's treatment recommendations were not followed. This is an obvious conflict, and the issue is not resolved, as far as I know.
I do not know how this would come out in the courts. I personally feel it is unlawful religious discrimination to fire patients for not accepting a treatment recommendation that violates their religious beliefs. A court could disagree.
Woah, I thought the "patient" got the "services" of the Dr. It is voluntary to go to a Dr right? How can they then, "fire" a patient??? I haven't even been to a Dr in about 8 yrs and my kids have been to the hospital maybe twice in their lives, for a broken wrist and a crushed toe. We eat a very nutritious diet, we are all proactive about our health and I don't vaccinate. We get colds and headaches etc occasionally, but apart from regular chiro visits, homeopathy, and good food, we haven't had need to visit one.
Thank goodness I have no part in the ridiculousness that is The Medical System. It is all politics and money money MONEY these days. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with health.
Peter Allison
Thanks for an excellent article. None of my 7 children have been vaccinated, except on two occasions when doctors held my children hostage in the hospital until I submitted to their vaccination demands.
However, it is not a violation for a private physician to drop a patient for refusing to vaccinate. The first ammendment is a prohibition on what Congress and the federal government can do, not what private businesses and citizens can do.
I have no problem with a doctor dropping people for not following their guidelines, although I would probably have drooped such a doctor long before that point, if I even would have gone.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Actually, private citizens cannot violate a person's religious freedoms either. For example, if you refused to rent a house you owned to someone of a particular faith, they could sue you for discrimination. Same absolutely applies to a doctor refusing to see a patient based on religious beliefs. This is a big class action suit waiting to happen.
Sarah Faith
Great article, but you're incorrect on this Sarah. The phenomenon you describe is a byproduct of separate anti-discriminatory legislation. The above commenter, Peter Allison, is right in saying that it is NOT a violation of the first amendment to the constitution, which says, "***Congress*** shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, " etc.
Stick to talking about health and nutrition and you're golden. I'm staying tuned.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Hi Sarah Faith, I am not sure what we are really going back and forth about here? The point is that what these doctors are doing is unlawful. I realize that there are laws at the state and federal level that strengthen this basic right of freedom of religion. The crux of the matter is that this behavior is unlawful and should be prosecuted.
Donald Pennington
Her point is: No, it's not.
Amy Trail
To Whom it may concern,
My son, Noah, regressed at 18 months and Dr. XXXX has stated to us that he is convienced that the vaccines did not cause his Autism.
As, we do not know what was the element, of the perfect storm, that caused him to be suffer full neurological lost.
Dr. XXXXX is willing to assume all responsibility for any additional loss or regression of skills and intends to supply full rehabilitated services for any damaged caused.
Amy Trail
Guess WHAT? He wouldn't sign it – WE didn't vaccinate. Not willing to put your money where your mouth is…means you are not sure either.
Guggie Daly
It's amazing how pervasive the herd immunity myth is even in today's debates. Herd immunity used to mean everyone gets sick, the young, sickly and old die. Voila, now you have herd immunity.
Does no one else get the sick irony of the vaccine industry spinning "herd immunity" as their primary selling tactic?
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Hi Guggie, the vaccine industry are masters of spin so I am not surprised how they take something like "herd immunity" which has nothing to do with vaccination at all and everything to do with NATURAL immunity and make it their own like they came up with the idea or something. Most doctors are just a mouthpiece of this spin and a parent simply cannot listen to what they say in the majority of cases. Finding a doctor who thinks for him/herself and researching both sides of every important health issue yourself is absolutely critical today with so much smoke and mirrors fooling people into accepting treatments like shots which will do nothing but harm them and quite possibly devastate their long term health.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Vicky, you know .. when I was a kid, no one went to the doctor unless there was a broken bone or something. Why don't you try to find a Family Doctor instead of a Pediatrician. Pediatricians are (for the most part – of course there are exceptions) pretty useless medical specialty that was created primarily to shoot up children with vaccinations.
Frankly: Polio I don't think we need to be vaccinated against any more, at least from my read on things.
Measles, mumps, and chicken pox… bring the vaccinations on!
I am of a certain age, and I nearly died of measles in my childhood. Sorry, vaccinate. The risk one way is better than the risk the other. And I seriously believe that it is sereptitious timing, not vaccination, that makes it appear that autism is linked to vaccinations.
I turn down certain vaccinations, but welcome others. It is just a matter of doing open-ended and open-minded research.
The increase in autism: Two factors: one is definitely diagnosis. However, secondarily, I certainly do believe that environmental factors not in play a century ago, do have a severe role. I just don't think they are related to vaccinations, sorry.
I can't speak for allergies, my un-vaccinated little guy has tons of them, which was just another reason to NOT vaccinate…but I do put on my defense, and talk myself up before I take him to the doctor (and dentist, because I don't agree with flouride either)…I live in a state where I can legally and easily decline, and lots of alternative parents in the area, so I don't get much flack….(but I am also older than most of the docs we've seen, so maybe that helps).
Funny story though, when I register my older kids at school, there is always a nurse's station you have to stop by and update your vaccines…so I put on my defensive face for this too…except one year after I said "I'm a conscientious objector, autoimmune issues run in my family"…expecting dirty looks and grief, the school nurse leaned in and whispered in my ear, "I don't vaccinate my kids either, but by law, I have to ask you"….
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Wow! That is one enlightened nurse. Fantastic! Even folks within the system are dissenting now! Very encouraging!
Dr. Lou Briegel
Here's another suggestion. Feed the doctors ego by saying something like this: "Thank you so much for your concern. I am so confused and would like your help. Everything I have read sounds like it is best not to vaccinate and I haven't found anything to support vaccinating. Can you give me some scientific information that will counter what I am reading and support what you know?" The doctor will give you something, thank them and tell them you will read it and discuss vaccinating on your next visit.
On the next visit when they try to vaccinate your child again say, "I read the information that you gave me and it didn't really give me any scientific information that would convince me to vaccinate. I'm really confused, could you please give me something to support your position?"
This will continue every time you have a doctors' visit. The doctor will give you only pamphlet info and no data because there is none. Good luck!
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
That is some good advice, Dr. Lou. I'm not sure I'd have the patience for that myself, though. I just opted out of the Pediatrician's office and have gone the Family Doc route!
Heather Laurie
Great post and more true than you know. Remember the Hannah Poling case, she had mitochondrial disease, she was a proven case of autism from the vaccines. You would think that it is CLEAR that children with mito (it's short name) should not have vaccines.
I and my children have mito does that matter one jot when I take them into the ER or peds. No I get grilled about why am I leaving my poor sick children in the clutches of horrible illnesses out there. Drs are so brainwashed that vaccines equal good parenting, no vaccines equal poor parenting that needs to be educated out of them.
Thank you for your blog and the ton of information you have linked!
God bless
Heather L
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Your comment is very powerful, Heather. Thank you for taking a moment to describe your situation and the idiocy you have to deal with when you cross paths with conventional doctors.
You say "the risk of not vaccinating carries the relatively small risk of infectious disease. " Well, while I enjoy the nutrition and fitness parts of the blog, this is where I step way, WAY away from your philosophy. You can only say it carries a 'slight' risk because the vast majority of people vaccinate. You're relying on herd immunity to keep the risk of the disease low for your child; and if that kind of thinking is widespread, you end up with the disease becoming much more common again. I guess you're worried only about your children, not their children? Or how do you justify that? There is a reason we started vaccinating: these disease killed and maimed people on a large enough scale for it to be a serious health risk. And it wasn't because people didn't eat the right fats, or weren't eating real food: these diseases killed and maimed before the era of industrial agriculture and fast food. Further, we've been using vaccinations for quite some time and the autism rate has only recently skyrocketed, so the non-vaccination crowd needs to learn to accept that vaccination is probably not the cause.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Kasi, there is no such thing as herd immunity. It is a complete myth as is the belief that vaccination eliminated infectious disease. I am preparing a new blog post on just this issue so stay tuned. It is a hard thing to grasp, but our culture has been brainwashed about vaccinations.
Sarah, I am a "newbie" to your blog, and am most thankful that I ran across it while searching the web for homemade baby formula recommended to me by my Chiro. A light-bulb went on when reading this post, and I can't belive I didn't think of switching to a Family MD earlier! I have had several bad experiences at the Ped's office and for some reason- (blame it on first-time young parent fear,) stuck with her for two years! I recently made the switch and was relieved to be respected for my choices and research when it comes to feeding and vaccinating my children. Although two vaccines were still recommended by the Fam MD (as compared to the 6 that are normally pushed by my Ped, under the claim that they are "REQUIRED FOR SCHOOL",) I was shocked to hear the Fam MD say that she won't administer nor recommend shots like the Rotavirus! What?!? My old Ped admins it three times! 8 Weeks, 4, and 6 Months! I was convinced for two years that it was a must, and followed my Ped word-for-word, made every well baby appt. on time and vaccinated my first daughter to the hilt. Now I cry when I think about how much was unnecessary. ANd how much I was taken advantage of as a first time parent. Although I nursed her for 13 months, during which she was never sick from anything OTHER THAN THE SHOTS SHE WAS GIVEN, almost immediately when I stopped nursing she became like everyone else's kid- sick with something every two seconds!
I have made it a point to do better with my second daughter, in the way of being better educated, before making decisions and believing anything anyone says, and I must say I have never felt so empowered before. Although my second unfortunately must be formula fed- with the absence of many of the recommended vaccines, she is currently in the 90th percentile and HEALTHIER than me and my two year old combined! Thank you for the open-minded blogs that help keep the conversations going about important health issues such as this. I am seeing the benefits first hand of delaying some, and completely avoiding, most vaccinations, in my 4 month old daughter and can't wait to see her continue to flourish!
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Julie, it's comments like yours that keep me blogging. Thank you for sharing your story.
Wow…this is my first and last time reading this blog.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Some people get it, some people don't. – Dr. Phil McGraw
Thank you for this post. Had I known this before my daughter was born I would have saved myself a lot of frusteration.
The initial pediatritian my daughter saw was strongly pro-vaccinations. She made this very clear to me while I was in the hospital still recovering from childbirth, declaring she "had seen too much!" and thus it isn't even an option. Keep in mind I had not even spoken to her before this encounter, nor had I brought up anything regarding vaccinations. I was however, reading over the paperwork they gave me to sign regarding the Hep. B shot they administer to babies days after birth. Perhaps she had gotten word I had not made a decision yet, but I was still surprised that this was what she chose to talk to me about days after I delivered my first baby.
We continued seeing her for a month, whereupon vaccinations were pushed heavily. I had then decided to do a delayed schedule after my daugther received her first round of shots, but I knew my decision would not be supported there. I switched to a Family Practitioner, and have been much better treated. The doctor my daughter see now is in complete support of my decision for a delayed schedule, and now that I have decided to stop vaxxing altogether, she supports that as well.
Thank you for this information regarding pediatritians! I had no idea that most pediatritians were like this, just thought I got a bad seed.
Sarah, the Healthy Home Economist
Hi Sue, a retired MD who witnessed the advent of this specialty in the 1950's told me this years ago.
Sarah, I found this statement very interesting: " The Pediatric medical specialty was created primarily to administer vaccines to children." I have never heard that before. How do you know this?
Pure Mothers
Great post! I didn't know about Dr. Eisenstein. I'll have to go check out that link. I had a great pediatrician in LA (Dr. Paul Fleiss – who is also against circumcision – so he was great for us. But when I had to take my son (now 3) to another Pediatrician for contact dermatitis that wasn't clearing up, they said they would only treat him that one time and not see him again b/c he wasn't vaccinated! I was shocked. Fortunately when we moved to Marin in Northern Calif. We found a great alternative pediatric practice. Not cheap though. It's a concierge practice and there is an annual fee to subsidize them b/c they don't make a ton of $ on vaccines. They offer some, but don't rely on them b/c they practice homeopathy, nutrition, etc. So I was more than happy to pay the fee. Here in London now, I thought I would get pressured b/c of the socialized healthcare – but NO! They were perfectly fine with our choice.
I think a doctor who threatens to fire you as a patient because you question any medical dogma is doing you a favor. Do you really want a doctor who insists on his or her heel on your neck when in comes to medical decisions over your life?
Rebecca Pitre
In 1984 from age 0-6 years the CDC recommended 10 vacinations, that number now has more then tripled to I believe 34 or 36? (You can check it out on the CDC website.) It also depends on your state. Some states, with the additions of recommended flu shots are up to around 60 by the time a child is 18. This is truely a crime and we need to keep spreading the word.
Sarah, the Healthy Home Economist
Dear readers, I would also recommend to never argue or debate with a Pediatrician. It only irritates them and wastes your valuable time. There is no benefit in debating a person who cannot be convinced of anything and is closed minded to anything but "The Gospel of Big Pharma" that was taught in medical school.
You mentioned in your response to my other post that I'm seeing more resistance to vaccinations. That was you putting words into my mouth; I simply told you that a mom had some questions about things she's read on your site. I'm not getting more resistance these days. I'm getting more questions – about everything, not just vaccinations. And I welcome them. I *want* patients and their parents to be involved in their healthcare choices. Do I recommend that they all get vaccinated? Yes. Do I tell them about the scientific based consequences of not doing it? Yes. That's my job as a responsible physician. An equally important part of my job as a responsible physician, though, is recognizing one of the primary rights of any patient: autonomy. We don't harass parents who choose not vaccinate their children, nor do we ask them to leave the practice. Some pediatricians will do that, and, for them, I apologize. Not all docs will do that. Being able to have an open and honest dialogue with your physician or your child's physician is EXTREMELY important. If your needs aren't being met, by all means find a different physician with whom you can have that sort of relationship.
It seems that most vaccine problems are linked to the MMR vaccine and the rubella portion of MMR is made from a medical abortion. I wonder if the wrath and judgement of God is coming down on those who allow themselves or their children to be injected with the DNA of that murdered child and that is why so much illness is reported with that single vaccine alone? I know this sounds crazy, but the thought occurred to me.
Of course as you know, Sarah, the birth center has recommendations for doctors based on the type of clientele they tend to have, and we chose a pedi right down the street from us because while he is pro-immunization, he seems to not really care what you do when it comes down to the vaccinations. He encourages us, but lets us sign off when we decide we want to forgo. However, his nonchalance about it, and the fact that we basically see him for nothing (maybe to get Mia's vitals, height & weight) has sometimes led me to wonder, why do we even bother going to the pedi at all? Our family care dr is so much more personable and helpful that I would rather take her there, but she has to be 2 I think to be a patient. Now I understand why some moms just don't even deal with the check-ups because unless you are getting shots, you can weigh, measure, take temperatures and check for your baby's milestones on your own.
Jennifer Betancourt
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the post. With my older one I never questioned the vaccination and we vaccinated her as per the schedule. With my younger one we experienced the same type of bullying from a reputed clinic in Lakeland. We finally quit them and went to a holistic pediatrician. I am so glad we did. I did vaccinate my younger one for some of the diseases since we travel to India (we are from India) once a year and I know she will be exposed to lots more things but we followed a delayed schedule. And I can she that she is far more healthier than all of us. But with Traditional diet my older one is also becoming more diseases resistant.
Sarah, the Healthy Home Economist
Hi Debbie, I appreciate your input, but my child does not benefit in the slightest from your child being vaccinated. Herd immunity is a myth and is not scientifically proven as you say. Dr. Russell Blaylock MD totally dismantles the herd immunity lie in this post:
Research shows that the decline in disease occurred before vaccines were introduced. Check out the AVN for further information!
Stanley Fishman
Sarah, thank you so much for this wonderful post.
I personally know so many children who have contacted horrible diseases after being vaccinated, from the worst kind of autism, type one diabetes, epilepsy, and in one case, death. Everyone of these illnesses happened to babies who were healthy and thriving before being vaccinated.
Your column may have saved the lives and health of some children today.
Thank you.
Sarah, I'm reading your post about the herd immunity myth. I have never seen this information before – eye opening! I will definately share this with my husband as herd immunity has been his argument against non-vaccination of children. Thanks!
In Georgia I had to prove I had been vaccinated in order to attend college, which was rediculous. The hospital I was treated in had "lost" my records so I had to go get blood tests to prove I'd been vaccinated. It really makes no sense – I can run into any or all of the same people at the college while shopping, working, etc. Not sure what the purpose of that is, especially considering I had to prove no such thing before attending college in Kansas.
Debbie's concern is a valid one, I think. We do benefit from having others around us vaccinated even if we are not (assuming the vaccination is, in fact, effective). Perhaps we should research alternatives to vaccination as a way to control these diseases instead of just pushing the same old ideas?
I believe in informed parents, but I also believe in informed scientific studies and proof. If no one vaccinated their children, I believe we would see diseases come back that have been erradicated. Have you ever met a person that had polio? I have. I don't want my child or anyone else to suffer needlessly.
While your children do benefit from my child being vaccinated, yes, herd immunity does exist, it is proven scientifically. Here is a discussion of it, about the flu vaccine and children-
My opinion, and that of most of the medical community, is that this is a very dangerous road to go down.
Peter Allison
You might want to read Dr. Leonard Sagan's very interesting little book, The Health of Nations. He is a pro-vaccine physician, but honest enough to admit that the data shows that vaccinations had nothing to do with the eradication of infectious diseases.
Mama G
When I was pregnant I interviewed 41 pediatricians before settling on the one we use. Most of them seemed irritated that I had the audacity to be interviewing them. They were immediately eliminated from consideration. Others admitted that they released families from their practice for non-compliance with vaccinations. They were also immediately eliminated. Others said they believed it was the parents' choice but after hearing stories of them using the tactics you outlined here they were also eliminated. The few left patted me on the head and told me not to worry so much when I asked if they had any experience with a very rare genetic condition my son had a high risk of having. Ater crossing them off my list I was left with 1 doctor. He admitted to being pro-vaccine but believed it was not his choice. He gives parents both pro and con information and lets them make an informed decision with no pressure. He even said "You can always vaccinate when they are older, you can't unvaccinate so make sure you are 100% comfortable before I give him anything." It can be overwhelming trying to find a pediatrician who encourages parents to be informed but they are out there, you just have to be willing to interview a whole lot of frogs along the way.
Interesting information about the fetal tissue. The Catholic school my mother-in-law works at requires full immunization. For some reason I can't see them enforcing it if aborted fetal tissue is involved. I'll have to do more research.
Andree Lira
Sarah, I love your website and all the informative info. you post each week.
I relate to this article so much when it comes to the "condescending tone" of a pediatrician. She made me feel horrible each visit we would go to and I would end of crying as soon as I got to the car. I'm so glad I didn't give in. Our 4 yr. old is not vaccinated and will never be. We now have a 3 mos. old and just recently had to switch again because they were requiring the DTaP shot. Really??? We currently do not have a ped. now and b/c of this article will be looking for a family doctor instead of switching to another. Thanks so much!
Thanks for this. We've been lucky in that the most our ped. has done is said "No shots, right?" and I say "that's right" and the subject is dropped. But I've heard many, many horror stories about pediatricians bullying parents into shots with just these tactics. We need to spread the word that parents do NOT need to bend to these and that much of it (like the no shots = no school part) is not even true! Sigh.
Lisa Wallen Logsdon
Sarah this was really informative. I don't have small children now but I have grandchildren and I not only forward your posts to my daughter but I also forward them to a Yahoo group I belong to which is all about not vaccinating your pets. Even though I thought I knew quite a bit about the evils of vaccines, I did NOT know about the aborted fetal tissue that is used in some of them. I appreciate your post and the link to the charts,thanks!
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text: Gold Dust West Elko offers you all your favorite games, from the latest slots to action-packed table games! Try your luck at 350 slots machines with Ticket-In Ticket-Out technology. If table games strike your fancy, sit down at one of our Blackjack, Craps, or 3-Card Poker tables. All of your favorite games, all in one place.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 590 review -
Product gallery
Product gallery
The product reviewed today originate from Gigabyte, let's have a peek at what they shipped in shall we?
First off, let me compliment Gigabyte for being creative. We've missed this a lot ever since a year or two ago. A snug but most of all sturdy package. The toolbox case is complimentary to the card. You'll receive two PEG power (8-pin) converters, one DisplayPort converter (mini to regular) and a DVI to DSUB converter. Next to that a manual and drivers.
Also included in the bundle is a professional gaming mouse... this is the M8000X gaming mouse, let me just CC some of its features:
- High-performance AVAGO 6090 Laser sensor
- Adjustable sensitivity up to 4000 dpi
- Support 15 customizable onboard settings with macro editing
- 8KB GHOST Engine onboard memory
- Scroll wheel with 24 individual click position
- 16-bit ultra-wide data path
- 5 independently programmable gaming button
- Easy "Up-down" DPI adjustment button
- Sweat-Proof Ergonomic streamline shape
- Ultra-Durable slick Teflon feet
- Gaming-grade USB cable with gold-plated USB connector
- Professional GHOSTTM Engine mouse software suite included
- Weight tuning up to 38 grams of metal weights
An excellent mouse by the way, worth 50 EUR alone. Anyway, back to the card.
The card itself is 11-inches long, that's give or take 28cm in the metric system. Power connectors are located at the top side to give you a little extra room to play around with. The card is 100% reference based up-to the MHz precise, the only thing that differs are the stickers.
We review the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 G1 GAMING. It's factory customized and comes all tweaked and cooled so much better opposed to the founders edition. And it looks fantastic as well. Join me in...
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 G1 GAMING review
Gigabyte released their GeForce GTX 1080 G1 GAMING edition graphics card. This bad boy is what many of you have been waiting for, all custom, all tweaked and cooled much better opposed to the founder...
Gigabyte X170 Extreme ECC and Intel Xeon E3-1230 v5
We review the Gigabyte X170 Extreme ECC motherboard, an Xeon compatible Intel chipset based product that is loaded with kit, ECC memory support (if you use a Xeon) and features. Though the chipset and...
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 980 Ti Xtreme Gaming WaterForce Review
In this review we the GeForce GTX 980 Ti with the longest name evah !, the new GeForce GTX 980 Ti Extreme Gaming WaterForce review from Gigabyte. This product impresses by design as it comes in an all...


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Cozy Room in Great Area with Wi-Fi (ME4)
מספר אנשים מקסימלי2
חדרי שינה1
גודל33 מטר רבוע
Floor No.
- מתאים גם למשפחות/ ילדים
- מטבח
- מכונת כביסה / מייבש
- ארוחת בוקר
- חדר הניתן לנעילה
- אינטרנט/ אינטרנט אלחוטי
- טלויזיה
- מגבות
|Mile End Rd, E1 4UN London, בריטניה
|סוג נכס
|חדר פרטי
|פרטי הזיהוי של מקום הלינה
|Acceptance rate
|Response time
|A few hours
|Calendar updated
Boasting tasteful, modern decor, this private bedroom contains a comfortable double bed and a wardrobe. The tiled communal bathroom features a bidet and a bathtub with shower, and the shared kitchen provides laundry facilities.
The Whitechapel area was once most famous for Victorian poverty and Jack the Ripper. Though the Ten Bells pub still remains, the district has become one of London's most popular tourist destinations. Brick Lane offers everything from vintage boutiques and festivals to world-class Curry Houses and vibrant markets.
Stepney Green Underground Station is just a 5-minute walk away, and offers regular services to other parts of the city. For guests with an interest in history, there are many guided tours available within the area.
|Check-in before
|עזיבה לפני
|מדיניות ביטולים
Recomended. Big room with comfy bed. Kitchen and bathroom were clean. Fantastic location for Sunday's Bricklane Market:):):) and overnight bus taking you directly to the centre .
We had a very nice stay. The house was a typical London house on two floor, my room was the fourth on the 2nd floor, it was quite big, we had a window a wardrobe a bedside table and a small table, there was also a little flat TV. The room was clean and the bed all right. The bathroom was large and looked clean, same the kitchen, we didn't met Kazzos but his instruction were perfect and we get in at late night, without further explanation. Thanks to hosted us. Recommend this place.
- הבטחת איכות מקומות הלינה
- כל מארח מאושר טלפונית
- תשלום מאובטח


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CW's The Originals S01E08 - The River in Reverse (Preview)
Year: 2013
Genres: Horror, Drama, Mystery, Fantasy
Type: Previews
Duration: 0M31S
Cast: Joseph Morgan, Claire Holt, Leah Pipes, Nathan Parsons, Steven Krueger, Daniel Gillies, Phoebe Tonkin, Charles Michael Davis, Danielle Campbell, Yusuf Gatewood, Riley Voelkel
Director(s): Matthew Hastings
CW"s The Originals return right before Thanksgiving so make sure you check out what is in store for you. Klaus (Joseph Morgan) and Marcel (Charles Michael Davis) begin to wage war while Rebekah (Claire Holt) has no problems leaving Klaus to his fate.
"The Originals" Episode 1.08 - "The River in Reverse" (airs 11/26/13, 8-9pm)
THE FIRST BATTLE OF THE WAR — Rebekah (Claire Holt), facing a difficult decision, turns to Father Kieran (guest star Todd Stashwick) for guidance.
Elijah (Daniel Gillies) struggles with the consequences of a recent fallout with Klaus (Joseph Morgan). Hayley (Phoebe Tonkin) remains by his side but is soon drawn away by a mysterious figure who sheds some light on her past.
Meanwhile, a frustrated Cami (Leah Pipes) struggles to make sense of a cryptic message she's come across. Finally, when an unsuspecting Marcel (Charles Michael Davis) uncovers some upsetting information involving Klaus, a confrontation ends in a surprising twist.
Jesse Warn directed the episode written by Declan de Barra and Julie Plec .
Synopsis:A family of power-hungry thousand year old vampires look to take back the city that they built and dominate all those who have done them wrong.
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text:
Is there a way to do a "clean" export of the differences between files? Not a diff, or even a formatted report... just a clean .CSV/.XLS/etc export.
This is for people that are non-technical; we have a number of nontechnical people in our company that could really use something like this. They work with mailing lists and need a way to extract the changes between list revisions.
As a programmer I know there are a large number of diff tools out there: WinDiff, BeyondCompare, FileMerge, command-line diff, etc. But I haven't been able to find one that will just give a clean export of the differences. (It's possible I've just missed something in one of the well-known diff tools I listed)
1000, Aaron
1001, Bob
1002, Chris
1004, Erin
1000, Aaron
1001, Bob
1002, Chris
1003, Dolores
1004, Edward
We'd like to export just the changed rows to... "ChangesInFileB.csv"
1003, Dolores
1004, Edward
FWIW, the support guys at Beyond Compare say they don't offer that.
This question is superficially similar but doesn't address the "clean export" thing Can somebody recommend a program to compare differences in two text files and report the differences?


text:
Terryville Volunteers brought 'Booktique' effort to fruition
The Friends of the Terryville Library wish to thank all the volunteers who spent the summer working to ready "The Booktique," our site for used book sales. Without the help, support and generosity of friends, businesses and the community, the opening of our new location, the former Dr. Wilcox house, would never have been possible.
We thank Mayor Vincent Festa Jr. for granting us the opportunity to move into the house; Public Works Director Anthony Lorenzetti for his advice and help as we started this very large project; the Imagine Nation Children's Museum; Lee's Hardware store in Terryville; The Terryville Lions Club; Mark Sekorski General Contractors; Mike's Tortoise and Hare Café of Bristol; Plymouth Auto and Graphic; Mark and Helen Nejfelt; Ron and Mary Wollenberg; and the Terryville Public Library. These businesses and individuals provided many essential items, from bookcases to paint furniture, roofing repairs, baked goods, and even publicity and building signs. Their generosity helped the Friends turn a dusty, unpainted, lonely and aging house into a true gem for Terryville.
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The Show
Metropolis: 4/12/14
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Polonaise in G Minor
By from Anna Magdalena Bach's Notebook
Violin, Cello - Intermediate
Composed by from Anna Magdalena Bach's Notebook. Arranged by Miriam Troxler. Baroque Period. Score. 1 pages. Published by Miriam Troxler (S0.1804).
Item Number: S0.1804
An intermediate duet arrangement for violin and cello of Polonaise in G Minor, BWV Anh 119 which is fun to play.
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