text:
CPS Takes Baby After Parents Seek Second Medical OpinionActivism, Healthy Living, Healthy Pregnancy, Baby & Child, Most Popular, Parent Rights
A Sacramento couple is without their 5 month old baby after Child Protective Services sent in the police to forcibly remove the child from their care.
A hearing is scheduled for Monday, April 29, 2013 on the incident which was triggered when Anna Nikolayev and her husband Alex took baby Sammy out of Sutter Memorial Hospital and sought a second opinion at Kaiser Permanente, a rival hospital, for Sammy's flu-like symptoms.
Anna and Alex were concerned about the quality of care baby Sammy was receiving at Sutter where he was admitted nearly two weeks ago. At one point, Anna questioned the antibiotics Sammy was being given and was alarmed that the nurse administering the treatment didn't know why the child was receiving them. Anna claims that a doctor later said that Sammy should not have been receiving the medication.
When doctors began discussing the possibility of heart surgery, the parents decided to leave without a proper discharge in order to have the child examined elsewhere.
"If we got the one mistake after another, I don't want to have my baby have surgery in the hospital where I don't feel safe," Anna said.
She added, "We went from one hospital to another. We just wanted to be safe, that he is in good hands."
While at Kaiser Permanente, the police showed up at the request of Sutter. The police told the parents that staff at Sutter had told them that the child was in such a bad state that, as Anna put it, "they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."
After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left.
The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents."
The next day, police came to Alex and Anna's home.
Alex met them outside and was slammed against the wall and pushed to the ground.
His keys to the home were forcibly removed from him and the police entered the house to take the baby.
Anna's home video of the incident shows police entering the home.
"I'm going to grab your baby, and don't resist, and don't fight me ok?" a Sacramento police officer is heard saying in the video.
News10 of Sacramento spoke with police on the situation and were told to talk to Child Protective Services. CPS said little about the case, only saying on Thursday, April 27 that the child was taken due to severe neglect. CPS spokesperson Laura McCasland said, "We conduct a risk assessment of the child's safety and rely heavily on the direction of health care providers."
No additional details were provided.
Sammy is currently in "protective custody" at Sutter Memorial Hospital. Hospital officials refused to comment saying the case was with CPS and law enforcement and they would have to deliver a statement.
Alex sums up the situation well.
"It seems like parents have no right whatsoever," he said.
Parents are increasingly becoming irrelevant when it comes to decisions regarding their children's medical care. Jodi and Scott Ferris experienced a similar traumatic event when they questioned the Hep B vaccination for their baby at Penn State Hershey Medical Center. Their baby was also taken by CPS.
The moral of this story? Tick off doctors and nurses at a hospital and they could very well sic CPS on you – with police breaking down your door in short order.
Think long and hard before taking your children to the hospital my friends. Once you go through that door, the medical decisions about your child are no longer within your control.
Click here for an update on this case following the hearing on April 29, 2013 presided over by Sacramento Superior Court Judge Paul Seave
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Sources: Couple Fights to Get Baby Back from CPS
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Comments (645)
I am not surprised Kaiser kicked us out of santa teresa hospital for seeing a second opinion. We finally can use Lawrence Expressway Kaiser, but if an ambulance takes us to Santa Teresa by mistake, they turn her away and send her to Lawrence. Kaiser is nasty about second opinions. Once at Lawrence Kaiser I sat next to CEO of Apple the one that was on Dancing with the stars. I sorry but I could not get over, he was using Kaiser for his health. Finally I made his uncomfortable by accident and he said well Steve Jobs was a cheap son of a bitch and that was Steve. He didn't have nice things to say, but my daughter got called back. If I had his money, health would be something I would not cut corners. I hate Kaiser and they have bad doctors. Not all, of them are bad for you have to doctor shop at kaiser to get good doctors. Finally my daughter has 3 really good doctors.
New era
This is a new era, these days doctors in big research hospitals like Lucile Packard Stanford in California make millions of dollars from Pharmaceutical companies to try untested medication/procedures on children and use children as lab rats, and if the parents refuse these meds or try to get second opinion then the DR will call CPS and claim medical negligent or fabricate any abuse case to hush the parents and get them in legal battles that most American cant afford the financial burden.
CPS doctor experts most of the time are former employees of these hospitals, and they get income kickback from this research income hospitals
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Wait, you're going to leave without a proper discharge? No IV removal, no other proper procedures completed? You could have the child transferred, I am sure, by ambulance. It's done all the time. I'm not sure they made a sound decision, and it could have put the infant at risk.
Me and my wife tried to get a medical transfer to another hospital where we felt safe and they refused we have court on the issue on 4/10/15any one with advice please help
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"I'm going to grab your baby, and don't resist, and don't fight me ok?"
So basically, go against 10,000 years of evolved instincts because some uniformed dipshit tells you to?
Yea in California CPS is bad my parents took good care of me and when i was 8 years old they took us out of the home because they got reports the house was a little messed i am 2nd oldest of 16 and at the time there were 5 of us in the house the oldest being 10 in a half my older sister and then me being 2nd oldest.
and for the record 1 out of maybe every 10 foster and group homes have good people. for the most part they just want to have the kids for the money and spend very little of it on the kids only enough for food and getting them cloths at the start of the school year.
My Advice to the parents check to see if this has happened at that hospital by other parents of so file a class action law suit agnest that hospital for kidding and CPS to they can't hide anymore.
Just so people know to many kids get Abused in this Foster Homes and Group homes some times worse then there parents did. My Parents were good hard working people my dad worked a good 60 hours a week. Thats commitment for parenting. Grant you I did get spanked when i did some thing wrong that was to major for the corner or grounding but at least I learned discipline to..
and I spent almost 5 years in the care of CPS until my grandma a nurse hired 3 lawyers and got custody of us.
how to play the piano
I do believe all the concepts you've offered on your post.
They're really convincing and will certainly work.
Still, the posts are very quick for novices. Could you please extend them a
little from subsequent time? Thank you for the post.
I live in ohio I would like for everyone to know Im about to start up my support group meetings cps is very hard to deal with a lot of parents / families need to be able to talk about there children / grandchildren If anyone would like to come to my support group meeting anyone can e-mail me email@example.com or call me 330 249-1541 we all need help / support my meetings are open to anyone that would like to come I would like to thank everyone for all there help / support the foster care system is broken a lot of innocent children have been wrongfully taken /put up for wrongful adoption/ sale we have to keep exposing cps / family court Let's all join together to help bring our children home safe out of foster care we are fighting to help bring children home there loving parents / families we have to keep fighting for all of our innocent children
I have an excited analytical eye for fine detail
and may foresee difficulties prior to they take
Good cheap insurance plan may be difficult to find but it still happens.
If you need to, you can use this generic eviction notice as presented here or modify it
to suit your situation. Section 8 pays any amount over that up
to a limit established by the program's guidelines, and no more than the Fair Market Rent for the area.
I hats off you ! You get the right decision in the critical condition.
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I like it *Sia!
I think you'r on to something.
Too often people assume bad things just because they don't have the same beliefs. If they want to see another doctor that should be fine! They actually went to another doctor. They didn't dissapear never to be seen again… They actually wanted the best for their child!
Oh no! That can't be good. Parents actually being smart enough to look at their options to do the best for their child!!!
CPS Worker
I doubt that anyone will read this, but whew! So many people here with some really strong opinions about something that there is really hardly any information about. One story and one quote from a doctor does not a CPS investigation make. As one person said above, the child was removed BEFORE they took the child for a second opinion. You have NO idea IF the parents did anything else that might have actually been a prudent CPS call. It is possible that they only fed the child gluten free rice. We have a case where a toddler died from parents that fed him only one food.
Also know that CPS can't defend itself to the news outlets…ever. It is called confidentiality and we always have to follow it. If we talk to the press we get fired and maybe lose our social work license. You are getting one side of a news story. Heck, once the local paper said I got to a house where a fugitive was before the cops. The cops were hiding and were there long before me. I have also seen stories where cops and witnesses have made statements about what we do that is blatantly false.
To those who say ( or believe) we steal and sell children I say please get your facts straight. Are their bully CPS workers? Well are their bullies in your line of work? Of course there are. Most of us however go into debt to get our degrees, choose a tough and underpaid mission because we truly want to save the world one child and family at a time.
Child Welfare Law- Mother's Attorney
To be honest, you have no clue what you are talking about. The real truth of the matter is CPS workers are sheep with with crap degrees. All this BS is pounded into your head and you're driven by "policy" not what actually makes sense. You don't have a clue how things are actually working. Do you know the dollar amount DHS gets in your state for each authorized petition of abuse and neglect when the child is removed and placed in a licensed foster home? How about when a child is adopted? Things get even more disgusting when POS agencies are involved… removing kids and adopting them out huge money makers! The fact that you deny is shows your lack of true education. My entire practice is devoted to representing mother's in the child welfare system. I show up to the prelims, defend the cases and if the petitions are authorized I represent until the case is closed. My colleague does all the appeals. As a social worker if you really cared about children you would know that not all kids need a white picket fence and the perfect home life to be ok. In fact, some level of struggle, dysfunction and heartache are often much better physically and emotionally than being in a unrelated foster home. There needs to be imminent risk of danger to legally remove in the way CPS so often likes to but that is thrown out all the time. Do you know what is an imminent risk of danger? REMOVING CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS! It is well known that removing a young child from their parents and breaking down the bond is not good. It leads to many, many problems in the immediate future and lifelong. The majority of CPS cases are related to substance abuse, mental health and poverty issues. If DHS put the time, effort and money into those things that they do into removal of children things would be a lot different. You should check out Oregon and Washington's Child Welfare model. They are the best in the country and the vast majority of their cases end in reunification without re-occurrence. Now, there isn't enough info here for me to make an opinion on THIS particular case but don't feed anyone your ill-informed BS about how great thou art. PS, 99.8% of CPS and Foster workers I know (which is a whole lot) have what we in the industry like to call "a God complex." Your ego gets bruised, mom or dad is mean to you (usually rightfully so) and it's human nature to defend and retaliate but you hold all the power here so it really is bullying. It becomes "how do I punish this parent" rather than "how do I truly help this child". I've seen it more times than I care to count. Get off your high horse and get right with Jesus because I'm here to tell you the things you partake in are EVIL and your willful ignorance of the REAL ISSUES & FACTS will come around 10 fold on your final day.
most I have met a out to make money or do something for themselves. My children were taken based off of stories throughout years by my husband's EX WIFE that sat in prison while I cared for her children! !! cps is clearly not doing their jobs hurray to you if you actually do care about your clients and actually helping them you make 1 in a million then.
Proud Parent
OF course you would defend your profession. Even at the expense of loving families. You're profession has turned into a cash cow and it is disgusting what you do to families. But keep justifying your "care". How does it feel to be respected by no one…
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I wonder if the train of thought went something like this
Second opinion = Doctor shopping = Covering up substance abuse = child abuse happening = Baby should be taken into care.
I'm not saying I agree with them for one minute. But I have to wonder if that was how cps got involved in the first place. Thoughts?
Having a baby reveals you have to own a special place.
Are you confused and looking for cute baby shower invitation
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the owner, outside of the house.
The decision made by Sutter Hospital to pursue this screams of CYA. They were not competent and realized right away that the parents may have reasons to sue for medical malpractice. This is just so outlandish for them to accuse new parents of abusive behavior and neglect because they didn't finish the paperwork. Excuse me? The only thing that makes any sense at all is that they needed to go on the offensive and accuse the parents first, BEFORE they were accused of Med. malpractice.
Cases like this are not rare, but they are shocking, and totally unacceptable.
The question is, were the actions of Sutter driven by:
A) a well-founded, albeit mistaken, concern for the safety of the child, or
B) a desire to cover up their mistakes (i.e. discourage the parents from making a complaint, or to discredit any complaint they might make), and/or
C) egos the size of mountains and/or
D) monetary greed.
If the answer is (A), the hospital needs to makes amends.
If the answer isn't (A), the matter is far more serious.
Oh, and, on the issue of medical professionals who are filled with their own self-importance:
A guy in heaven sees this chap with a long white coat and a stethoscope around his neck. The guys asks St Peter "Who is that man?" St Peter replies, "Ah, that's God…..but he thinks he's a doctor!"
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There can be similar concerns in UK.
I say to people, now, that it is not advisable to have children. The powers of the State and the destruction they cause are too problematic.
I myself had a history back in the nineteen-fifties. It took me thirty years to unravel the mess made of my childhood by (so-called) health professionals. I found after many years that just about everyone of them had an agenda – and it was not the child's best interest.
As a consequence, I have been trying for over thirty years to get these people dealt with for child abuse.
YES — THAT'S RIGHT. The child abuse is being committed by the doctors (at Sutter) the Child Protection Services (CPS mean something different in uk); and the police. The lot of them should be behind bars for child abuse.
It is amazing how many people only believe what the media tells them. There is a lot more to this story, but the people involved in health care are prohibited from commenting because of a little thing you all might want to look up. It is called HIPAA and it does not allow any medical personnel to discuss any of their patients with people not involved in the person's direct care. This is why you are not hearing the entire story. The people at Sutter or any other health care facility are legally and ethically required to not talk about what was going on with this baby with the media or anyone else. Would you really want your Doctors and nurses telling everyone and anyone everything that is in your medical file?
Thanks, for the voice of reason!
Except that their lawyer DOES have access and he has been saying the same things as they have. The media is not telling us these things – the couple is. Any person can authorize access their medical records for any reason and this couple has.. So I don't think what you posted applies in this situation..
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Concerned Grandmom
I am very sad to hear what these parents were subjected because they asked too many questions, but I am not surprised. These parents voluntarily took their son to the hospital and obviously their only concern was for their son's well being and are just one of the innocent victims that are criminalized for protecting their child. who their intentions were very honorable and trusted the hospital to provide them with the appropriate treatment. They voluntarily took their son the hospital and did whatever any parent is expected to do if their child needed medical attention. What If they didn't take their son to the hospital and his symptoms got worse they would be accused of neglect and CPS would be right on their doorstep to sweep him away. In other words, " your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't". You just cannot win and the more you complain the worst it gets. The Family Court is your worst enemy and will do anything necessary to cover up the truth. They appoint child advocates and social workers who are not qualified to diagnose a worm let alone a child. The Court actually solicit their recommendations and enable them to compose Court Orders and alter transcripts. The parents were innocent victims and now that they are in the "system" I truly pity them.
My husband and I have been through a similar situation. We are the Maternal Grandparents who raised their granddaughter from birth until she was 4 ½ years old. She weighed 2lbs 13ozs when she was born and had many medical issues that needed to be addressed and monitored. The major concern was a 9mm hole in her heart and we prayed that it would not get larger. When she was three it was discovered the hole had enlarged and we were informed that a procedure was necessary to close the 11mm hole "the sooner the better". The Pediatrician referred us to a cardiologist at St. Christopher's and were told there were several different procedures to "patch" the hole. We wanted a second opinion and the pediatrician agreed with us. She referred us to a cardiologist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) and stated "that if it were her child she chose CHOP to do the operation. The Paternal Grandmother disagreed with the two cardiologists and the pediatrician and filed a frivolous petition filled with slanderous and fabricated allegations of child abuse and neglect. The Paternal Grandmother's counsel was an ex DA and the Administrative Judge was the attorney's ex partner in her law firm. Do I need to say more?
We retained an attorney who assured us the fabricated allegations of child abuse and neglect would be addressed immediately. However, she failed to do what was promised and the Paternal Grandmother embarked on a witch hunt to portray us as liars and child abusers. As a result of these unsubstantiated accusations the judge appointed a child advocate and a play therapist to make recommendations concerning our grandchild's mental health treatment and medical issues, as well as ours. We were slandered, bullied and abused by the Court and the team of individuals that were assigned to the case without any legal justification. They tampered with witness, committed perjury, altered documents, transcripts and medical records. They accused us of sexual abuse and subjected our grandchild to unthinkable invasive tests and put her on a feeding tube without any consult to us. CHOP was refused payment for these procedures by the insurance company and stated these procedures were "medically unnecessary." The Court threatened to put our grandchild in a foster care medical facility if we stood in the way of transferring custody of our granddaughter to the Paternal Grandmother. We were granted a "good bye" visit . We were told to leave the room when she cried and screamed for us to help her. We were monitored by guards and were not allow to be alone with her. We could not kiss her, hug her and she could not sit on our lap. We were in shock. We were forced to leave our sad little granddaughter in a state of confusion and despair and was assured she would be coming home soon. However, our efforts to regain custody of her were in vain and we did not see her until one year later. After a few "therapeutic supervised visits" we were prevented from seeing her again for another year. It is now going on five years since our last visit with her and even though the court orders specifically states that we "shall not be alienated" we have been deliberately kept from having any contact with her whatsoever. The fact remains, the state's involvement in custody matters is out of control and has disrupted the lives of many innocent children and their families. The Philadelphia Family Court System has no one to answer to, and believe they are above the law. The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia is now becoming notorious for "kidnapping" innocent children from their families without any warning and without any legitimate or legal justification. My husband and I have been stigmatized by the allegations of child abuse and our lives have been a living hell. The corruption is running amuck in our city and is something that must be addressed, and remedied for our children's and grand-children's best interest and future well being. My heart goes out to the many innocent parents who are subjected to this cruel and unusual punishment because they want the freedom to do what is best for their child. Also, attached is the website of a recently released "film"" on YouTube that was published by Leonard Neil Friedman, my brother and our Granddaughter's great-uncle. She is the love of his life and this film was made in her honor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Xm90N If you have any questions please contact me at firstname.lastname@example.com
This article started out as informative, then turned to fear-mongering. Who are you, Sarah, to give any other parent advice on how to care for their child? "Think long and hard before taking your child to a hospital"….. is not a responsible thing to say to the viewers of your blog when you have no idea what might be happening in any given situation.
And, the commenters are just as irresponsible in their hate-mongering of what is the best for anyone else.
These parents did the best they could in their situation for the health of their child. It's unfortunate that this incident escalated to this extreme, and will, hopefully, be rectified soon, for the health of all involved. The Sutter hospital made some drastic mistakes, and will pay the price with the negative publicity and lawsuits.
My thoughts are with the baby Sammy, and wish for him a speedy recovery in his continuing health saga.
This is precisely why the 2nd Ammendment applies, the cops broke & entered, along with cps, these people should have been shot, the moment they walked in the door, this is what the framers of the constitution were certain would happen in due course, police, and bureaucrats too full of their own self importance, and immunity from prosecution, ba$tards think they gan get away with any 4king thing they want.
There is a change.org petition for this family. Please sign it!
The real moral of the story is don't take your baby out of a hospital without getting proper releases. In this case, the baby was fine, but generally you should trust the opinion of medical professionals. If you believe a doctor is harming your child, call the police or get a second opinion.
Jay: The hospital does not have authority over my child. I do. If I want to release my child from a hospital admission, I may do so. I'm the one who decided to take them there in the first place. Hospital policy is not law. They tried to get the doctor to sign on a release and he would not. They did the right thing and were well within their authority to do so.
Jay, you're a moron, these parents WANTED a second opinion, they were obtaining it, by going to the SECOND hospital. Wake up, this is government control, this is what these people left Russia to escape from, it's idiots like you that elect those who condone this
cps hater
Jay, They took their baby to another hospital to get a second opinion and the second hospital they took their child to RIGHT AFTER THEY WALKED OUT THE FIRST ONE The second hospital had told the cops that showed up that the child was OK and the CHILD WAS FINE TO GO HOME!!! They got a second opinion and CPS stole the child from them when they forced their way threw the door of their home by TAKING THE KEYS from the father that went OUTSIDE to talk to them CPS had the COPS back them up… The pigs that were in the middle of this shit needs to learn the FACTS before busting into someones HOME!!!
I think this is a travesty for this young family, but totally disagree with the closing statements made by the author of this article. Twice I have watched my baby girl get horribly sick, once at two months old with flu-a, then at age two with pneumonia. When she had pneumonia I hesitated, thinking she would get better. Thankfully my intuitive husband whisked her away to the emergency room where they found one lung almost completely filled with fluid and the other lung filled halfway. She stayed five days, spending her birthday in a hospital room. But it didn't matter, because she was alive. I give credit to God, the doctors and nurses for saving her life! If we waited any longer the turnout would have been very different. DO NOT HESITATE TAKING YOUR CHILD TO THE HOSPITAL, as the author suggests! Most people do not feel the medical choices for their children are not in their control. I never felt that way. I've never known anyone to feel that way. I do not feel the author has the right either to assume that doctors sic CPS on patients that tick them off. There are obviously extenuating circumstances here. It is so sad that CPS even got involved here, but it is not the norm! Sad, but not the norm!
Tahoe Comment
CPS is out of line. Clearly the 2nd doctor had no issue with this child going home. CPS needs to follow the recommendations of a doctor over a social worker.
Sutter is out of line and should be put in their place. If they are so paranoid about second opinions I wonder how many unnecessary services they are 'providing'? Using CPS over parent's heads is a level of cowardice beyond belief.
It amazes me at the ignorance of people these days. I think that the government agencies sometimes go overboard in their quest to protect. So sad.
Disgusting. Although it's not surprising in our police state.
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This is so sad. I also had CPS called on me when I took my son to a "hospital" in Nevada after a seizure episode. I was told that the nurses were concerned because he wasn't wearing socks. My response to that is, if your child is having a seizure, are you going to make sure your child is "properly dressed" before you take them to the hospital? NO! I scooped him up and took him the 1/4 mile to the hospital. Such a sad situation when the parent(s) have no idea what to expect when taking their child in to be checked out.
I wonder if the parents have filed official charges of kidnapping with the states attorney, it qualifies.
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Falseeeee propagandaaa designed to upset you.. and it worked…
Chris G
Whoa! Hold on a minute! The author is out of line with her last line. While this case is ridiculous, it is NO justification for abandoning medical care for your child. If a child is seriously ill, he or she needs a hospital and delaying that care may permanently injure the child or result in death. To use a single example of healthcare professionals acting inappropriately to indict all physicians & nurses is just wrong.
Well if a doctor told me that my child needed open heart surgery I probably wouldn't take him out of the hospital I would have gone to the front desk and demanded to see the doctor immediately to find out why. Just removing the child is retarded. Ever watch those er movies where everyone is frantic and they may not have the time to tell you what they are doing before they do it.
Melissa S Bentley
This makes me sad considering my nephew and niece were taken due to my sister not having a place to live. At the time they kept her son (only child at that time) because she went up to have them help her find a place to live. Then she was an occasional marijuana user so they used that to keep her child after she did find housing.
Needless to say by the time her second was born we were better off to have her live with us and she was only away from her newborn (who left the hospital with CPS because siblings must stay together) and son for 2 months before reuniting in my home (and yes she did quit using drugs). Times came when it got hard for my family of 4 to take care of housing her family of 3. We got an eviction and had to move. She went a different direction, but was quickly able to move into the childrens' grandmother's house, however the state took them away again because she could not find a job. Due to being in an area with limited work (and her being unable to find and keep a steady job) her children have been placed for adoption by the state.
I wish I could take them but I don't have money to hire a lawyer to fight for rights, plus the county is 7 hours away and in another state, and I am expecting my 3rd child this summer. My sister has no choices over what happens to her children.
They have a three strike rule when it applies to foster/adoption. And her oldest has been removed from her 3 times.
Which we fought so hard to get rights to him a couple years back, without the money love has no factor on children that are not yours. (And sure, now I'm crying.)
just read where this is repost of old post
This article states the child was returned to the parents.
Sheila Parker
After being a foster parent to 12 children over a period of 10 years (I took sibling groups) and variety of circumstances that brought them into care, there is always more to the story. California has a huge backlog of children in foster care and those waiting to be adopted, most age out of the system before adoption could happen. On the medical front, so many hospitals are terrified of being sued or private endowment funding cuts that they go to extremes. (Example of Charles Cullen, nurse eventually accused of murdering patients starting in 1988. Even though he was suspected, hosp. fired him and he moved onto other hosp continuing his horrific crimes, all to avoid bad press, law suits, etc. ) Most parents would seek a second opinion for their children, especially when major surgery is recommended. Unless, there are other issues with these parents of prior CPS visits regarding this child, I side with the parents. The very fact they took the baby to the hospital in the first place and was correct in looking for second opinion shows the parents competency and seeking medical advice in the best interest of the child. Hopefully, the child will be returned to parents and follow up on medical can go forward stat. Most of my kids that were placed in my care had never been to doctors/dentists in their lives, much less, clothing, good diets and regular school attendance. I was paid $10 a day by CPS to care for the sibling groups placed in my home, it is hard to raise your own child on $10 a day. I know of many loving foster families out there, with good intentions, there are always those that should not be foster parents. I turned in a foster family for neglect of a child still in their care. It was obvious that he did not have new clothing, shoes, haircuts, or basic grooming they were to provide. I had the younger brother and sister at my house and arranged for visitation so they could play together on a regular basis. Today, even after 24 years, I am still in touch those three and with most of the kids I had in my care. Today, they are all great people, with new families of their own and their birth or adoptive parents are very proud of their children. The best thing a foster family can do is provide a window to a different life that feels safe, allows them to be children and provides a healthy transition back to birth family or into adoptive families. These kids will not forget good care. The parents first order for their baby is to seek good medical which is what they were doing, once that is done and baby's health is confirmed, look into the hospital and prior complaints or legal cases that have been filed by family's to see if the hospital routinely does this. Hospitals reporting abuse has gone on for decades, this is nothing new, but these parents did nothing wrong. They acted in the best interest of the child.
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And how incredible is it that we have to sign a petition to get parental responsibility back! Have a baby but then have no rights over it…Just completely crazy!
Also it seems that this story was hushed after the court hearing…has anyone heard anything else?
Chris G
The couple was on Fox News earlier this afternoon. After only having supervised visits, I think they (and their lawyers!) have the baby back home, but will continue to be monitored by CPS.
a deductible to take your child home? Illegals get their care for free and legals have to pay before they get their child? I am so sick of pay/not pay. I probably would have also taken my child out of the hosptal if a nurse and doctor could not explain the need for antibiotics followed by a suggestion of heart surgery? If the medical staff cannot explain the above then the medical policies/staff/procedures should be investigated.
The way the entire thing is being handled is a disgrace. There must have been a more humanized way of getting to the root of the problem
And screw proper discharge policies…illegals dont do anything proper except to steal SS numbers, drive illegally and nothing happens to them.
cyndi phillips
becky here is a little known fact about illegals using social security numbers. They don't steal them, they use them on job applications so they can work to feed their families. The deductions from each paycheck go into those accounts and the illegals can't file tax returns to get their own money back. Last year illegals put in $50 Billion into the social security system that they don't get back. That money isn't stolen, it sits in the social security accounts, to be used by those of us that qualify for it. This story is sad enough without you posting nonsense about illegals that isn't true, isn't relevant and takes away from the story about this particular family.
I'm not one to promote lawsuits but in this case I would sue the hell out of CPS and that evil worker, Sutter Hospital and even the freaken police…something I would normally ever say but this is over the top. The parents ha e the sacred responsibility to care for their children and who the hell does Sutter think they are? Those are obviously good parents. How you can take good, decent and loving parents and rip their baby away and turn them into criminals? What the heck! If that happened that CPS and police and I respect the police would have been met with serious resistance. A parent needs to protect their child at all costs. This story has made me absolutely sick.
Robert B
From what I heard and read in the article, it seems to me that the Sutter hospital is just being vindictive because one of their patients wanted a second opinion from someone that wasn't involved with them personally. The Dr for Kaiser put in writing that he didn't see any health risks by letting the baby go home with her parents. Unfortunately as it happens in all over the country. Parents don't have any say in what happens with their kids after they go to the hospital. If the Dr says the child needs a surgery then either the child gets the surgery or gets taken by cps. Parents don't have a choice of getting a second opinion anymore. Pretty much the government runs every aspect of every citizen's life in this country. I doubt if anyone has noticed how more and more of our rights are being taken away from us. America is still one of the best if not the best country to live in, but the citizens need to take control of it again and tell the government to get lost and keep their noses out of our business.
I do think that there are times when the government needs to step in and take children from their parents. One of the comments I read compared what this mother did to hitting their child with a 2 x 4 or a fist. I see a big difference there. Taking your child to another Dr to get another opinion is, as far as I know, still a right of the parents. I say she needs to sue the Sutter hospital after this is all done. Cps should have looked into what Kaiser said and then made their decisions. Unfortunately they only investigate what they think is pertinent to the case and not all of the facts. It's left up to the parents to get all the facts and then spend sometimes years fighting to get their children back even though they haven't done anything wrong.
I also agree that some CPS workers do have a Napoleon complex as I call it. If they don't get the respect they THINK they deserve then they pretty much ruin a family and then laugh about it. The lady that said she has heard a CPS worker do that and did nothing about it needs to be terminated along with the worker that did it.
Being a CPS worker has to be hard enough with people always yelling at you, calling you names, or sometimes even becoming violent against the worker. To sit there and hear another worker brag about taking children from their families and laughing about ruining the family is as bad as the worker that did it. By letting the worker get away with it and not saying anything is as bad as if she was abusing the children herself
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Update on this story: they had a hearing today and regained custody.
No they didn't get custody back yet…the baby was transferred to Stanford hospital, and still under the control of CPS even after the baby will be discharged.
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Well it is obvious that the judge was on the side of CPS, and what crap is that, that Kaiser is not good enough to take care of the baby???? Now I'm madder than ever because they have to get permission before taking their child for a 2nd opinion…How crazy!!!
A lot of comments on here seem to have a lot of opinions of the foster-care system, and while there are some abuses, as there are in any bureaucratic structure, I can personally vouch for the experience I had in VA, where my parents took in 3 children at once (they are actual siblings, and it was hoped at they could stay together.). We eventually adopted them, which was an extremely rigorous process that involved a lot of character witnesses, background checks, home visits, etc. In fact, while they were still in foster care we had home visits as well. And let me tell you, the check that people talk about is not a lot of money, my parents didn't profit a cent. Children are pretty expensive. The couple in this story do not seem to be at fault, and if they are innocent I hope they can get their baby back soon, because it would be a terrible injustice and a total undermining of parental rights. But my siblings were beaten and neglected by their birth parents. Their father abused their mother, who was mentally ill. They lived in a small apartment with other families and when they first arrived, they had not had a bath for a very long time. These kids had actually been in foster care previously (we met their former parents, who were very sweet people) and had been returned to their biological parents. I would not be surprised if they had not been washed since, as they all stank like urine. Also, they were wearing very sparse clothes for the fall weather. I love my siblings, and they're all doing very well now as adults. My parents sacrificed a lot for them and for me, and frankly, I think there's a lot of hype about bad foster homes because of TV shows and Lifetime movies. My folks weren't perfect, but they were good parents. So before you go painting everybody; birth parents, social services, foster parents, with a broad brush, maybe think about where your info is coming from. For those who have had terrible experiences due to the system, my heart goes out to you, and I sincerely hope that the holes can be fixed so that others don't have to suffer as well.
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I'm sorry, but people need to just calm down. This article is one side of a story, and is also full of opinionated statements. The last three paragraphs, for example, have absolutely no evidence to back them up. Yes, this kind of crap happens, but don't jump the gun on the police force or CPS from a bunch of unconfirmed statements.
My grandmother was a great foster mother for many years, and my mother had wonderful foster parents when she was growing up. There are kind people that go into social work because they want to help, and sadly, they get overrun by the idiots who don't care. Don't lump them all together.
And take your government conspricy bull somewhere else. I'm not saying there isn't corruption, but you can only spout so much hatred and crap before I start thinking you're an idiot.
Power Up People!!!
Thank you for this article, Sarah. And to any of you who are inclined to defend CPS, an oxymoron if I ever heard one, think about how you would feel if this happened to you. I hope this couple finds a lawyer to sue the pants of these people. This is a child we are talking about here -an innocent, defenseless baby. If this happened but once a year it would be inexcusable. But sadly, it happens a lot. This is a good example of why we must all beware when putting ourselves and our loved ones in a position where some authority figure may usurp our power. Don't allow yourself to go there. Stay empowered. It is your God given right.
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Dana, you are uninformed as to the health care system in Canada. Thousands come from Canada every year for health care in America. Even the nurses in Canada disparage the system:
Sandy Barker
Back when my daughter was born @ Jeff Davis hospital in Houston, Texas in 1984 there was a hispanic lady who worked in the office and did the paper work for discharge. On my daughters birth certificate she wrote FATHER UNKNOWN. He was there with me when we went in. Of course I didn't catch that mistake until I went to get her birth certificate. Can you imagine the embarassment and problems it caused? Then she had my insurance papers and # address. When we were getting ready to leave (I had to have an unexpected C section) she told us we couldn't take our baby home until we paid the $200 deductible. I told her my mother had taken my purse home with her and I could come back on Monday (it was Saturday and the office was getting ready to close). I went and basically kidnapped my own daughter and took her home. They did this to a hispanic couple who were charity and they plastered how illegal it was all over channel 13. I will bet that lady never even lost her job or got reprimaneded. My daughter had to go thru her life with FATHER UNKNOWN and it made me look like a whore. My daughter finally receive her father's name when she was around 15. DO YOU think the hospital paid for this in any way?
Robert B
You should have sued the hospital as soon as you found out there was no father on the birth certificate.
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Sandy Barker
The whole problem with CPS is they can do anything they want to you and when they make a 'mistake' they just say sorry I screwed up you and your familes lives and it's "OK". Just like the police. And they ARE racially prejudice, it DOES happen and they LOVE using their authority. There are no consequences when they screw up, the state backs them. If they don't like you they will make your life a living hell simply because they can and delight in it. PATRICIA JOHNSON in Houston, Texas is my example for this. A black case worker with a nasty attitude toward single white mothers. LIED to a judge, lied to her supervisor, lied on court documents and lied to the court about my daughter. Judge Sheree Van der Pelt LET her get by with it. My daughter stayed in custody until she was 18. She had ADHD ,ODD and bi polar. It was so bad ,even in custody they had a really bad time with her. Ms. Johnson told the judge it was all my fault because I had a bad temper. She admitted she knew little about children who had ADHD or ODD. My daughter had been in the psych hospital 2 times and I had went to numerous classes trying to understand WHY she acted the way she did. These children were born with a chemical imbalance in their brain it had nothing to do with my temper. As for me having one, yes I tend to get a little upset when I sit and have to listen to lies about myself from people who don't know me and are judging my life and they don't listen to the facts in a kangaroo court. The judge was talking to the CPS workers and lawyers in the hall before we ever went to court. As soon as I came in they broke up. That is not legal. But I had little money and they knew they could do whatever they wanted, They would not let me see or talk to her.They put my child in an all black home. I fought for years. I finally got someone who listened a few months before her 18th birthday I was allowed visitation .There was not a lot of point in trying to get her out, by then I just let her stay so she could graduate with her friends, When we talked, Ms. Johnson had lied to her too about a lot of things. CPS workers……they are like cops and judges…….there are good ones and there are dirty ones. If you get a bad one, not a lot you can do. I fought the system for almost 6 years over that witch.
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My suggestion is to get photos and info of the doctor who made this happen and the people in charge at CPS and plaster them all over the place. Make it viral. Make sure everyone knows who these people are and what they did. Newspaper, facebook, tv news, etc.
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I think this is less about CPS doing wrong, and more about the butthurt childish hospital workers.
Lori Kohnlein
So now they are calling Keiser incompetent. Releasing an infant that parents took there for check up to their son. WHY ISNT KEISER STANDING UP…??????
It looked at the baby…and by the way its not like the parents refused treatment at Sutton for Sammy they WENT RIGHT TO KEISER….helloooo!!
Does NOT LOOK loke neglect to me. I would bsolutely have 2nd and 3rd opinion on surgery.
Ask a surgeon what to do…he will say im surgeon…lets do surgery..AH YEAH!!!
KEISER STAND UP…if you do NOT…just do not know how well your hospital will do after you do not stand up for even a baby.
God please move in the favor of your children…Stand to YOUR WORD FATHER GOD…whatever we ask in YOUR NAME..it will be given.
Anyone have an update? I went to news10.net but nothing really new there since the reporter was standing outside the courthouse.
When a parent applies for a birth certificate, a trust is created with the same name as the baby, and the baby is granted by the parent as collateral for the trust. The state then has an interest in the baby, which is why CPS can come take its baby, when it doesn't feel the caretakers are looking out for the best interest of its child. Birth is a commercial term, stemming from the word berth which is also a commercial term applying to ships which deal with shipping and the delivery of goods. With a birth certificate, there is a delivery of "goods" (the baby). Much better to stick with being born and maintaining your rights and freedoms rather than being birthed. Membership does have its privileges but costs as well.
Don't have all the facts but to me that seems excessive…as for the nurse who didn't know why the baby was getting antibiotics she's an idiot. I work in the medical field and see ignorant parents family members everyday and don't call CPS or file a report. I have reported neglect a total of 4 times in 18 yrs…I am appalled at this situation and hope the parents have a good lawyer…always ask as many questions as you can…the reason for admission was never stated in this article…this is not a complete factual story but there certainly needs clarification and I hope the family is reunited today! God bless.
Boris Boris
This is disgusting. I hear story after story that make the "CPS" look more like LaCosa Nostra. They come and take your kid with whatever the excuse. A disgruntled neighbor, anyone.
Something has to be done. I am not a parent, but I feel bad for the unfortunate (good)parents who have their baby ripped from their homes.
Once it is done and the process is in motion, it is hell for the parents to resolve the issue and get THEIR OWN child back from these goons.
I hope the best to them.
I wonder who in CPS got a backhander from Sutter for this?
I hope and pray there is a huge lawsuit for this couple against the hospital and cps!
Wake Up Wilkes Barre
Unbelievable, sounds like folks should steer clear of Sutter Memorial Hospital, it would seem like you do it their way, or their way.
In 2005, my cousin had CPS take both her children away when the 3-year-old snuck out in the middle of the night and nearly drowned in the pool. She wasn't allowed to lock the child in her room because it was a fire hazard, but the little girl wouldn't behave. When CPS took the girls, one daughter was listed as "Samantha" on the order even though her name was Savannah. CPS claimed she could have the kids back when she completed a court-ordered education course, but when she completed it, CPS said they'd adopted the children to a couple in Minnesota. My cousin's rights hadn't even been terminated yet and the adoption went against the court order. They decided to terminate her parental rights based on an interview with my cousin's father . . . who'd committed suicide in 1993. Boy, that must have been some interview!
Tom Ivan Kortkamp via Facebook
Reply to Savannah: SLCHHSD will be the first to take advantage of it!
Tom Ivan Kortkamp via Facebook
Reply to Savannah: SLCHHSD will be the first to take advantage of it!
laura silvas
I would have to say that this scenario is likely to happen to any parent who attempts to remove a child from a hospital before it is discharged and against medical advise. This case would be the rule rather than the exception to the rule.
I moved from the states to Mexico even though I am not Mexican because I figured that my kids were most likely safer in Mexico with the mafia than in America with CPS. It is a better quality of life here for someone who has enough money.
From experience I will say that CPS, in any state, is riddled with problems because ANYONE can make a complaint, it doesn't have to be the truth and depending on just how zealous the worker is will define the ultimate outcome. We were involved with a situation where our granddaughter was being neglected by her mother and being sexually assaulted by her mother's boyfriend. Several complaints even through the police department and the child's school were made to CPS who did essentially nothing. It was only after she came to visit us, across the country, that the local police in CA got a warrant which included having her checked for sexual assault. She was 7, mentally retarded, and has an abusive mother. We had custody until CPS did some underhanded things, including telling blantant lies to the police at which time she was returned to CA, placed in foster care and eventually "repatriated with the offending parent". What they were actually doing was covering their a**es so that the family court judge would rule in the favor. IT IS SICKENING WHAT THEY CAN DO!! Oh, and the mother of this child became pregnant by the boyfriend who molested her daughter. CPS "encouraged" her to terminate the pregnancy in order to prevent further repercussions.
Ann-Marie Stillion
Our health care system in the US is out of control on so many levels. It doesn't say in the article where we could lodge a protest. The hospital needs to be put on notice that the community is watching. However perfect (Irony inserted here) our health care system is, it is the individual who still must be able to decide their medical procedures. Getting a second opinion is hardly a matter for the police.
Can someone post an email to send our disagreement with the hospital?
Diana M Koski via Facebook
I've been all through this with a relative. It's a nightmare. The only way you can get anywhere is to be as suspicious as they are and think one step ahead. Never fall for their sweet talk.
It is getting so hard to be a parent with people like this. Calling CPS when you are trying to get the best care for your child. I can not believe that the nurses and doctors were unreliable when it came to the care they were providing. I would have done the same thing. I have a medically fragile child and have been in a situation where I knew there was something wrong and had to request more imaging (in the correct spot) to confirm my assessment of what was happening to my child. I would have done the same thing as they did. It is our right as parents to get a second or third opinion in the medical needs of our children. We must be strong and be advocates for them. If anything the police should be called in and the hospital should be facing malpractice suits for this….. "At one point, Anna questioned the antibiotics Sammy was being given and was alarmed that the nurse administering the treatment didn't know why the child was receiving them. Anna claims that a doctor later said that Sammy should not have been receiving the medication."
I hope they are going to after the hospital for this. Especially after the other hospital went over the medical files and this happened….
"After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left." and "The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents."
If anything the Sutter hospital was the ones putting thier child at risk and should be dragged to court for this.
I hope all the best for the parents and the speedy safe return of the child and hope it gets into the right hospital. I feels for these parents.
Mr. E
Somebody walks onto my property, then proceeds to assault a family member and threatens to kidnap my child? Well, they're not walking away from my property, regardless of the badge. ONE of us is going to the hospital or the morgue.
Bill Goode
Reasons are growing to just stay away from hospitals, quack doctors (psychiatrists), drugs and Obamacare. It is becoming increasingly apparent we must depend on ourselves and consult our own personal knowledge of how to care for our selves and our families. When incidents such as this take place, after you have recovered your family, just stay away.
Helen T
I agree with you Bill, but then again, I was sort of 'woken up' by a discussion with my sister yesterday. Her husband is an emergency room physician in Indianapolis and she told me he and his colleagues are discussing setting up in a low income area of Indy where there is a lack of care. Reassuring to know some in the system still have their hearts in the right place…..
Bill Goode
Yes, certainly the vast majority of physicians are well intentioned and very fine doctors. Your sister's husband has a good idea how to stay in business and still care for people inspite of Obamacare. It's hospital administration and the drug companies that are the major source of the problem.
I'm certain that it wasn't a doctor that called the police to seize the Nikolayev's baby. It was undoubtedly some hospital administrator that didn't know anything about medicine or healthcare. Hospitals should be run by doctors, not accountants or corporate executives. The way hospitals are run nowadays leads us into Obamacare, bypassing the doctors.
Never NEVER trust anyone in CPS, they are dangerous people!! My family disappeared in 1990, EX claimed all christians are crazy ( I am 7th Day Adventist and sort of vegetarian , the 11 yr old twin girls are ADHD, the diet helped) 15 yr old daughter and 2 1/2 year old son disappeared in 1990….did not find them until 2008.The older girl escaped foster care and survived on her own. The twins were drugged, beaten, gang raped and when released from foster care at 18 with no education, have been in and out of jail and drugs. I was never informed where they were.The boy was given to his father who disappeared with his welfare meal ticket until the boy was 16 and he kick him out in NY state. I tried to survive all alone during those years, no help was ever offered, no explanation or apology was ever offered.
I pray they can get a good attorney ASAP and hang those CPS people out to dry before that child is harmed in foster care.
Child Pedophilia Services strikes again. They must have needed to fill their quota.
If this article is factual, this is indeed disturbing and wrong. However, two wrongs do not make a right–trying to make parents afraid to take their children to the hospital, which is exactly what the closing of your article is attempting to accomplish, is also irresponsible and dangerous.
I agree, what happened is disturbing and wrong. "…trying to make parents afraid to take their children to the hospital, which is exactly what the closing of your article is attempting to accomplish, is also irresponsible and dangerous." It occurs to me that the article is not what would make a parent leery of going to the hospital, it is the hospital's actions and an out of control CPS.
1- When even considering removing such a small child from it's parents CPS should be required to go before a judge.
2- Doctors and Hospitals do not have rights above a child's parents. Medical malpractice would not be a profitable business if Doctors were 100% right all the time. Their egos sometimes become a detriment to patient's health and safety. How many times have decisions for surgery been changed. These parents ARE IN THEIR RIGHT AND ENTITLED TO A SECOND OPINION.
3-I grew up and Canada and lived almost 18 years in the US -Texas specifically -though the care from State to State varies tremendously my family received much better healthcare in Texas than we are getting now in Toronto. Whoever is in Canada who says differently has obviously never needed critical care. Socialized healthcare never works as well as intended. We pay higher taxes and I pay the same on top of my taxes that I paid for my HMO in Texas. The Healthcare system has nothing to do with what happened to these parents -the individual staff at Sutter and the police and CPS are to blame for being careless, jumping to conclusions and as a parent may have caused this child untold emotional harm by snatching the baby.
4- In what country can you not get a second opinion- stories like this will encouraged well meaning parents not to seek help.
5- Please get a good lawyer and put a stop to this reckless behavior.
I understand your frustration over some of these stories of babies being removed from parents' care after misunderstandings. But in these cases, after a lot of heartbreak, things were sorted out and the baby was returned home. Minimal harm done. We are only a few decades away from a (thank god now outdated) notion that what happened in a family should stay in the family — this idea that the state has "no place in family disputes" is why devastating cases of domestic and child abuse went ignored for decades. Social services and police MUST BE empowered to vigorously and aggressively investigate every case that has even a whiff of neglect or abuse. The alternative: wives and children suffering soul destroying abuse for YEARS because people felt it "wasn't their business to intrude" is a terrible alternative and I am a bit surprised at "caring" people who want to return to these dark days.
Just me 5547
Minimal harm? Are you a parent? Because I'm pretty sure that my daughter being ripped from my arms over such a silly reason would do more than "minimal harm". Maybe "minimal harm" to the baby, as he won't remember it–but what about the parents? Do you think it did minimal harm to them? Those poor parents have to sit in an empty house waiting for the hearing to know if they'll get their baby back. Yes, every child has a right to a safe home–but most parents love their children unconditionally and to just snatch them away for anything less than a REALLY good reason (physical harm only IMO) is one of the worst things you could do to someone..
An agency devoted to the well being of children is a great idea. I am of the opinion that any and all child abusers should rot in Hell. However, an agency such as CPS–that has good, loving parents afraid to take their kids to the hospital–has no place in American society.
I'm not basing this solely off the article. I have 2 family members who are wonderful parents that have had cps visits for ridiculous reasons–both involving hospitals. It's ridiculous. When you're a parent, your biggest fear is losing your little ones-so a CPS "referral" is one of the scariest things imaginable, until this happens.
No, you should not be able to "vigorously and aggressively investigate any notion of abuse". You should be able to take a child from a home only when you can PROVE neglect, period. I should be able to call the hospital to ask a question without fear of CPS knocking on my door.
You are insane! No other explanation for your comment.
My reply was for Maggie.
People like you are the reason our country is in the state it is in. The government nanny does NOT have you or your children's best interest at heart. Giving up your freedoms for the appearance of the governments 'protection' will always end up in more heartache and abuse. These are dark days, but not because people feel it isn't their business to intrude", but because people do and they are more than happy to have the government do it, without a thought about the true repercussions. Do your research, don't just look at the surface, search deeper.
Obamacare Hitler Jones III
Wait till Obamacare enslaves everyone. Well, the white people at any rate
the american medical system is now #1 cause of death in the usa! http://vaksini.eu/death_by_medicine_en.pdf
Siara Delyn
Watch out folks! If you deprive the "Job Makers" of their profits, they can take away your kid….
Unbelievable that a hospital would not want, or let, you get a second opinion. Really dont understand Cps's decision to do this considering that the child went from one hospital to another. There are a LOT of government agencies that need better policing, and possibly a better application system. Most of the workers i have run into in these types of systems should not be making decisions for animals, let alone people. Think maybe the government needs an agency to police them the way those agencies police us. Wonder if maybe that would make them think twice before making a bad decision.
Maybe they put the child in protective custody BECAUSE the parents took their child to Kaiser. Personally, I've had nothing but bad experiences and ineptitude at Kaiser in CA.
CPS is not perfect and change is needed. I suspect that a communication error occurred. I have been social worker for over 20 years and the systems don't work together. The court order removing the child was likely given before the second opinion was given and determined baby was safe and the order was already issued and the police had to follow it. Dumb I agree, they need to communicate better, stupid errors that can be resolved. I will say that CPS can NEVER comment or give their foundation because it is confidential so often they are blamed when no other info is available because the only people that can talk are the parents and the parents attorney, not CPS. I don't defend negligent work of any profession and unfortunately in all professions there are those who cut corners, etc. I will say there is NO SUCH THING as a quota for removing kids. Quite the opposite. Agencies are often punished or paid less by the state when they REMOVE a child because it is considered a failure by social services to remove a child regardless of circumstances – this is what actually leaves kids in unsafe situations. I have seen it myself. My guess is that if this is true, that the baby will go home Monday. But should not have been cared for by strangers and missing his parents when he is sick! Or ever.
There is too a quota. Around here, social workers get a $5-10k bonus for every child they remove from the house and put in foster care. I overheard a social worker say it when they were stealing my cousin's daughters.
Wow. That is NOT TRUE. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. Do you think the government would actually pay for a social worker to remove a kid so the government can then pay to support them? That's ridiculous. They don't want to pay or be responsible for the cost of caring or any children unnecessarily. And there is NO BONUS – have ya ever seen a W2 for a social worker? We are one of the worst paid professions in the country. When I graduated 20 years ago from Univ of Iowa and became a social worker thinking I could make a difference, teachers made about the same money. Ha. Now they make double what we make and they are under paid. We have tremendous responsibility and should be held to a HIGH STANDARD for sure for every decision we make. However, we are not valuable enough to warrant any entity to pay for the profession with such responsibility, much the same as teachers. There are people in every profession that do not do their job well, drs, nurses, lawyers, judges, policemen, and social workers, etc.. I think this is a horrible tragedy that could have been dealt with another way for sure. However, our systems are broken and it is time for changes on many levels so little guys like this don't have to suffer. I am the adoptive parent of a boy who was 4 years old when he left foster care to live with us. He is now 19 and it took years for him to heal from his experiences and I can say the "system" did not help…… however, I will say NO ONE GETS A BONUS TO PLACE A CHILD. If you heard that, the worker was a crusty burned out worker being sarcastic.
I really feel for those parents! I truly do! When my son was a baby, he was ill and we drove him to the emergency room. We were taken to an examining room and there we waited….and waited….and waited. Meanwhile, our son got sicker and sicker. Finally, the doc came in, looked at him, pretty much just said, "it's viral, he'll be ok" and that was that. I was furious! I grabbed my son, told my husband that we were going to the hospital that was across the main highway just down the road, and off we went.
Once we got to the other hospital's ER, it was a totally different story. They took one look at our son and immediately sprang into action. The next day I contacted the first hospital's administrative staff and complained. To their credit, they took my complaint quite seriously. I was on the phone quite a bit that day with the administrator and his staff. I assured them that I wouldn't sue, but they'd better not bill me for what I didn't receive, and that was proper care and attention! No bill ever came.
Moral of the story: Parents most often DO know what is best for their child. And healthcare professionals just don't get that.
Kim Sorgente
All of those "authorities" involved should loose their jobs and face jail time.
adam birch
I hope when they get the child back they sue the hell out of that hospital.
Jeana Payne
Having a friend with CPS on the snatch and grab side of things. Things were not done correctly here. It seems to me that the first hospital who was making all the mistakes and was about to do open heart surgery on a baby was not satisfied with the results from the first investigation so they made a more severe accusation after the baby was released, Police are not usually allowed to take children without CPS being there. Obviously the first hospital wanted the money because the child is back in there for more unnecessary test and procedures and medications that he doesn't need. Sounds like a law suit of harassment, false allegations, slander and many more against this hospital and staff.
Stephanie N.
Okay, I hate to say it but what did you expect? CPS is a world-wide scam and everyone should start to know about that. They take every child they can and stick them in homes where all the Foster Children get are donations from separate organizations so that they can keep the money that follows each and every child. THAT IS HOW THEY ALL GET RICH. Not to mention that Social Workers get paid to sit on their ass and take you to Court.
IT IS A SCAM. I am talking from experience after being submitted to Crisis Unit for a PTSD episode and medication issue before being taken illegally by CPS before 24 hours were up for my mother to get me. Went to three houses in just four days and was HORRIFIED at what I was seeing. And they don't give you anything!
They claim to care but they really don't! From this story, people need to come together and try and reform this scam of a department. They have NO RIGHT!
Karl Hungus
"I'm going to grab your baby, and don't resist, and don't fight me, ok?"
That statement alone should earn this guy a bullet to the head. An armed kidnapping is an armed kidnapping, regardless of what sort of faggoty little costume the kidnapper wears when he's committing his crime.
The thing is this really happens a lot it seems…but this couple was smart enough to get it covered by the news…I wonder how you get a news channel interested enough to air it on the news, because everyone should do that when it happens and then CPS would be held more accountable maybe.
CPSwas called on us when our 15 year old son was sick, because the Dr. was ticked off about something we said, not that my son was sick. My husband put that Dr. in his place and we probably should of filed a report on him. we made sure we were in the hospital with our son day and night and there were many mistakes made. including the wrong med's given in the middle of the night.
Someone who works at the hospital
The nurse should have known why the child was antibiotics- no question about that- The Drs response, I interpret to mean that the antibiotics were given prophylactically- Yes, this is still done in ICUs until definitive culture results are back. This can sometimes be hard for families to understand, but with children, babies and those affected with certain conditions, cardiac problems being one of those conditions, illness can go from bad to critical in a half an hour- We still use antibodies quite liberally.
The child has a feeding tube in place. I'd put money on the fact that he was admitted for failure to thrive. AMA + FTT +cardiac issues and the MDs likely felt this child was not getting the care he needed in the home.
Maybe hospitals should think twice about using antibiotics liberally. Maybe if they used only when needed, fewer people would end up with c diff or susceptible to other super bugs. I applaud anyone who questions the use of antibiotics.
It most certainly is the nurse job to know what the medicine is for yemer. I am in the hospital lots and my nurses are the ones who take care of me . Not a doctor who sees me for 15 mins total a day. I have had social services called on me at the hospital after a doc in the er refused to listen to me that I was having a pancreatitis flare up and needed pain meds. she got very rude with me and I got rude right back with her. She had cps then come to my room with a claim of my kids looked unkept. Um they were in their pjs it was 4 am when I went to the er . How should they have looked. So the doctor in this case I whole heartily believe was mad because they wanted a second opinion which is their right in fact. I hope this baby gets back to his parents tomorrow and has his surgery at a much better hospital. Sorry for typos !
once the child is returned, leave the state. The family is now at a point in the legal system where the child could be six months before he is returned. People should read this and understand it can happen to them. We must also understand that CA is the flagship for Obama care, coming soon to your state….
smart mama
I had my baby at a Sutter in Santa Rosa many years ago. The staff left me in bloody sheets (no they never changed the sheets and I was there four days), wouldn't let me nurse, NEVER cleaned me up, wouldn't allow me to shower and tried to keep my baby in the NCU when he was perfectly healthy. I LEFT with my baby – against medical advice and no 'transport' papers – and took my baby to a different BETTER hospital where he was pronounced perfectly healthy. The new doctor, after examining my baby said to leave quickly before he called Sutter (to protect me from any action they might TRY to take against me while I was still at the new hospital). My new doctor called and gave them an EARFUL and a half!! Then he contacted my old "nurse midwife from hell" and gave her an earful too about my postpartum treatment. I heard (from neighbors) that people (not in uniform) pounded on my front door for days and tried to find me. I was no dummy! I didn't return home. I stayed away and guess what? My son is perfectly healthy. He is almost a grown man now. Think I'd ever go to Sutter again? Not if my life depended on it. ESPECIALLY if my life depended on it! I wrote on EVERY SINGLE MEDICAL RELEASE FORM when my son was in sports and other activities – by hand – that no care was ever authorized for my son at Sutter nor would I pay the bills to them. The only two times he ever needed to go to a hospital, the ambulance made sure to drive PAST Sutter and straight on to the next hospital. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…. yeah, you know the rest!
SUE THEM INTO THE DIRT!!!!!! For everything a good attorney can think of!!! Anna and Alex BE STRONG!!! Keep the faith!!!! Think clearly to get him back and SUE THEM ALL!!!! The Nurses, the cops, the judge that signed the order ( IF there was one) , the workers – EVERY SINGLE ONE WHO PLAYED A PART IN THIS! Contact Attorney Shawn McMIllan-The Law Offices of Shawn A. McMillan, A.P.C.
4955 Via Lapiz
San Diego, CA 92122, United States
He is a very good man, he forwarded to me A 56 PAGE motion for me to use as a template to represent myself! CALL HIM!!!!
May GOD bless you and watch over you and your baby during this trying time,
Most people who are subscribers to this site understand the dangers of vaccines and modern medicine…. but it seems little know how this is allowed to happen. Once you " apply" for a SSN and a birth certificate, you have given up certain freedoms and liberties. Does anyone have their birth certificate? Most have only a copy, get your hand on the original and you will see that it has been stamped, record of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, trading on your name. Try to get your original birth certificate and see where that rabbit hole brings you. Please educate yourself on what the legal terminology of the agreement you enter into when you voluntarily agree to a SSN and birth certificate. Once you enter into that agreement , you and your child are "goods" to the corporation. They give you the privilege of taking care of their goods. Please, please look into this to understand this better. Read into what the term, "straw man" means. Words in a legal sense means something else to the law. Check out the legal terminology for a drivers license. A driver is described as someone who drives for profit. Unless you are a taxi driver or a tractor trailer truck driver , are you in commerce? We all run out to apply for a license, and agree to follow the statutes which apply to driving, speed limits, stop signs…etc. all there for our "protection". Because you agreed to the license statutes you can be fined for breaking them. Look up natural law, and read on how we are duped into giving up our natural rights. We freely give up our natural rights the minute we apply to join the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK! research how all these government agencies have rights to you and your children.
I feel so bad for them. I've been through something similar, my son's doctor put him on a potentially lethal dose of one of his meds (for ADHD) and when we found out we went to switch doctor, take him off the meds, and report her. She phoned CPS and had them threaten to take him if we didn't put him back on the meds and didn't continue seeing her. 2yrs later my son developed a rare blood infection that lead to a status seizure and encephalitis and as soon as she found out he was in the CCU, without even seeing him or speaking to anyone there, she called CPS and told them it was our fault. Before we even knew what the cause was, while he was on life support struggling to live, they came up and threatened to have us charged and said they'd seize him if he survived. Even after discharge, and with proof as to what caused it all, she still tried blaming it on us and tried having him seized still. When that didn't work she called them almost weekly harassing them, she finally got a break when the person she usually got stuck talking to was on holidays and a new person had taken over for her. The new worker came out and seized him, almost a year after that infection, with a whole host of complaints that didn't even make any sense, even the judge kept forcing them to stop and was getting pissed at all their misinformation (like diabetics never suffer from low blood sugars if they take their insulin right and having 3 low blood sugars over a year was "abnormally high and unheard of").
Thankfully he is back where he belongs, the judge told them that it was illegal for them to stop us from switching doctors or ordering him to be on optional medications, especially with a behavioral specialist even saying they were not needed. He now has a new team and has never been healthier, he hasn't been on ADHD meds for 2yrs now and has went from failing school and in all spec needs classes to main stream with some remedial help and puling off A's and B's (the ADHD drugs left him unable to function). Not a single person even suggests them since he's been taken off, in fact when we mention he was on them before we're asked WHY because they can all see he did not need them.
Some people just should not be doctors, they do not deserve to be working in the field they work in.
this is unfortunite that this happened but it is only the hospitals job to report to the possibility of abuse it is CPS's place to investigate and make a determination if there is neglect or not, bad CPS could lead to a child not being taken to the hospital of much needed care…. This is a shame…. I smell a big law suit….
Louise Brown via Facebook
This video is all over the net, but there plenty of people who feel just like Melissa Harris-Perry:
Signed petition and wrote my congressman. Like others have said I hope the family is contacting everyone they can to get their baby back.
You really believe you have parental rights to take care of your children as you deem fit? Watch this. http://www.overruledmovie.com/
Pingback: CPS Takes Baby by Force After Parents Seek Second Medical Opinion | Restoring Liberty
Helen T
Hard to make authority listen to you. Must be compassion fatigue or another behavioral mechanism that starts to malfunction.
I learned this early when my sister was in grade school and her winter coat was stolen.
The principal was reprimanding her about keeping bad company when my sister didn't even KNOW the girl that had taken her coat! No way to tell that to the principal – she had the authority and she was going to use it and facts were only getting in the way.
My heart goes out to these parents. I was in a simular situation, my daughter had pneumonia and the treatment she was recieving was poor at best. I refused antibiotics because the swab test I had done on her game back negative twice for bacteria so this was viral pneumonia. They called CPS on me as well. However I didnt loose my child. My advice to parents going through this situation is be informed of basic medical terminolgy & common pediatric illness & their treatments. An informed parent has the keys. The CPS sided with me and the hospital could not administer antibiotics. My daughter fully recovered in 4 days of hosptial.
×¨×•×ª× ×¡× ×" via Facebook
Having a children is like having a bike: you must be ready to throw it away if the conditions of your accommodation are changing.
Isabel Johnson via Facebook
Really? Only people with kids get blackmailed?… What if you lost your legs and couldn't ride a bike anymore. Would it be wiser to have never learned to ride a bike? Anytime something tragic happens to something you love pain will follow. That doesn't mean you shouldn't live.
Isabel Johnson via Facebook
But that is exactly what it does. It makes it into only one way is correct.
What you guys living in the USA have to put up with astounds me. I'm so grateful to not live there!
This injustice is awful. How horrific for these poor parents and the baby who has now been taken from the security of those he knows. From the information presented it sounds like CPS has no case for taking the baby and, even if they did, surely the parents could stay with their baby under supervision until such time as they are charged/released?
Anna sounds like a wonderful mother and wee Sammy is lucky to have her questioning his medical care – particularly when it was going to entail unnecessary major surgery.
there are two sides to every stiory. and when there is a sick child in the mix emotions boil. Ive been in more than a few er's . I also know alot about the pd. Im sure there is alot more than we are hearing. And if you say Officer sir please examine this . its alot better than try an take my kid mthrfr. they may have had a drink or a lil refer scent on them . And im not passing judgement or throwing blind accusations. im just pointing out the obvious there is alot more to this than we have been told. Obviously after dealing with the parents an being inside thier home they felt they had reasonable cause. Trust me they would be in alot of hot water if the da thought they did this with malice an not the best intrest of the child.and teh pd an cps are barred by law from divuldging info on an ongoing investigation. the truth comes out in the end so lets wait till the before rushing to judgement.It also could of been a huge mistake but wouldnt you want them to err on the side of caution
??? They only have the word of the dr. an nurse, an of course thier own observations.we were not there.
The Doctor
As someone who was pulled by child services, because my mother was abusive, and was placed in a home that has allowed me to earn a Political Science Degree, which i would not have been able to earn in the original home, All the bad mouthing of CPS is a little irritating. Let me know when you are on site for one of these and then talk to me about how much they screwed it up. Did you catch the part where they left without a proper discharge, they didnt follow procedure which is there to protect the child, get a discharge take the kid to other hospital and all of this gets avoided.
Pam Sparks
they did try to get a discharge so they could go get a second opinion and the hospital wouldn't allow it. This mom had it right and they didn't like it. No more antibiotics. God made us with an immune system!!! Our bodies can heal themselves but young mothers get worried and off they go and the medical system is in too big a hurry and pass out drugs instead of truly helping the healing process! In the USA, the highest cause of death is from drugs! PRESCRIPTION DRUGS!!! People are so brainwashed that doctors are God. Protocol is ridiculous. No two people are the same! Obviously these hospitals are in competition. Such a shame. So wrong. A hospital does not own your child. I find it very scary that the baby is back in the first hospital where they were treating him wrong. I hope these parents get the best lawyer and sue the pants off all involved. This is truly a crime and parents everywhere should be alarmed!
Hitler took the children from their parents too. Government has no right other than what they gave themselves. This is a law or privilege that the people did not get to vote on! This incident will likely cost that town a million or so by the time the parents finish suing them. And the hospital? They will also lose. Both money and staff. Other doctors said the child was OK. And the staff member at the hospital causing the trouble, was asked why the meds were being given and had no idea. That staff member had an obligation to find out why. I hope these parents take that hospital for several million. And I hope they sue the police as well. And the judge that wrote the court order. In short. I hope the "nanny state" gets what it deserves. All of them!
Pam Sparks
I agree!
Olga Gurlov via Facebook
Here is the information for those, who would like to help Nikolayev's family to bring Sammy back home to his parents where he belongs.
This is a letter from one of An Advocate for Women, Infants, Disabled, and Bereaved.
Here are 3 things you can do to help:
1) Become a Friend with " Bring Sammy Home" on FB.
2) Call Vicki Dean at Sacramento Child Protective Services, THIS is the number to call and express concern over this matter and tell her that it is important that this doesn't wait until Monday 916-875-2000 Thank you Rachael
3) Email Sacramento Child Protective Services at firstname.lastname@example.com and share your thoughts
Here is the email I composed
Dear: Sacramento Child Protective Services Administrators:
The case of five-month-old Sammy Nikolayev being removed from his home and his parents Anna and Alex Nikolayev has come to my attention. I am outraged regarding this travesty. Is it not possible that CPS is being utilized as pawn by a hospital to punish parents who were not pleased with the care and service they were receiving from the hospital and sought out a second opinion at a hospital and with healthcare professionals of their choosing? It is not against the law for parents to seek out second opinions for the medical care of their children.
I have devoted much of my life to maternal infant health, and I can tell you that a mother is hard wired to care for and protect her baby. It is my firm opinion that every moment Sammy is not with his mother he is at risk! I implore you to at once, immediately return this child Sammy to the care and protection of his parents!
One must ask is the agency's removal of this child from conscientious parents being pro active regarding the care of their child the best use of the agencies human and financial resources? Would it not be better to apply these limited resources to truly at risk families who are not providing care for their children at all?
Anna and Alex have initiated care for their son and are seeking out the appropriate care for their son by healthcare professionals of their choosing. This is the antithesis of child neglect, Return Sammy to his parents posthaste.
Genny White,
An Advocate for Women, Infants, Disabled, and Bereaved
Thanks for posting this info. I'm going let these CPS bullies know my opinion of their actions which were prompted by the complaint of the obviously non-objective hospital. I hope others will take the time to write or call too. This could be any one of us, threatened with losing our children, and we should stick together and protest this insane injustice.
If you don't take your child in to get medical care, and he or she dies due to Medical Neglect, as it is formally called, you can and most likely WILL go to prison. Just so you know.
Kate Tremont via Facebook
This is terrible. This kind of thing should never have happened anywhere to anyone. Lawsuit coming and the parents will win. WTF…
As a registered nurse, I am appalled that the nurse providing the care for their baby did not know what the medication was being given for. As a nurse, it is our job to know what the diagnosis or suspected diagnosis of the patient is. When administering any medication, you should know what the medication is, why it's being given, and any and all possible side effects or risks/concerns re: the administration of the medication. I too would question the kind of care the child was receiving from that nurse.
Secondly, parents have every right to question the care their child is receiving. They also have every right to get a second opinion.
This is crazy. So, because of a possibly "suspected" case of abuse or concern, CPS doesn't even head out to speak to the parents and look into it? They simply allow the police to show up, without question and take the child? What the hell is that?
I hope this gets settled quickly and that poor child gets placed back where it belongs, with his parents.
I have dealt with this particular hospital as my son spent 17 days in the NICU there. Half of the staff is incompetent. I had nurses assigned to my son who were absolutely clueless and didn't understand my son's rare condition and caused him to desat and aspirate as well as turn blue. I went directly to the head nurse and specified which nurses could touch my son. I asked the nurses detailed questions and those who couldn't tell me why they were doing something were reported to the charge nurse and were not to touch my son. This hospitals "specialists" also contradicted themselves as one doctor told me it was vital for my son's condition that he got breastmilk, and other "specialists" told me it was "impossible" for him to gain weight without me increasing the calories of my breastmilk with formula. However, they forgot to give me "informed consent" of the possibility of kidney failure caused by this practice. When I refused to increase my son's calories by giving him formula they tried to get my son's primary care physician to call CPS on me. We had a bit of a heated talk as I was demanded to bring my son into her office within 45 minutes and she alluded to the fact that certain parents don't take care of their children properly and sometimes doctors have to intervene. The "specialists" didn't think that he was gaining weight properly, but after weekly weight checks, his primary doctor was satisfied with his breastmilk only diet and told the specialists that my son showed no signs of malnourishment. The "only" reason, I believe, that the agency wasn't called on me is because the hospital was no longer the primary care provider. Had they been, it is very likely there would have been a different outcome.
Pam Sparks
so terrible that you had to go through this Jenny! Glad you stayed strong and fought for the best for your son. It gets so old that they lump everyone into the same category!
Jonathan Smith
Just because your a Doctor and went through all this schooling and training for it does not make you perfect. Heck not even the Pope is perfect. CPS. Or whoever you want to add to the list. The only Perfect one not was but IS JESUS. He's alive and coming back soon. You doctors and whoever else swallow your pride be humbled admit your mistakes and learn and grow from them. And the more you do that the easier it gets. Jesus Loves you all. Even if you make mistakes. Repent and ask His for forgivness.
Jonathan Smith
Well if the issue is they are looking after the best interest of the child. Well then how about all the aborted ones. Why then do they not take the prego into custody until the child is born? Huh? Answer that? They go against the parents then in that situation so why not then? Oh but i guess that don't matter. Because it's just a fetus. You don't get pregnant by accident. The way I see it. Sex isn't an accident. They don't just fall down on one another and well you know the pieces just fall together. NO!! Sex happens on purpose. If you don't want kids. First of all abstinence. Biblically wait till your married. Or just plain ol' get yourself fixed. Sorry for ending up on abortion. It's just irritating.
Sharyll Garlinger Martin via Facebook
This is horrible for parents.
Jackie Parnell
Remedy: ParentalRights.org
With the government infringing on more and more of our rights as parents, and the threat of foreign treaties ruling as sovereign over our own land's law, there is a sound solution. Michael Farris, with HSLDA and its attorneys, has personally defended many of these cases. Read, listen, and watch. Take a stand, sign the petition. We can do something!
Nichole Sawatzky
Thanks for using your resources to help bring attention for this family, Sarah.
My son was born severely jaundiced on the friday of President's day weekend. Immediately after my delivery, his blood sugar was not to the satisfaction of the incredibly uneducated nursing staff and they gave him formula without my consent. I was not given the immediate opportunty to nurse him. My intent was to exclusively breastfeed as I had done with my daughter until she was 18 months (self-weaned), and I threw an unholy fit about not being consulted prior to being given formula and being swept off to the nursery. FOR SIX HOURS I asked to see my newborn son. My husband pounded on the door to the nursery and he was denied and threatened with action by security to see his own &%$#&ing son. When the baby was finally brought to me he latched and nursed my colostrum for the entirety of the night, going on 7 hours. His little body knew that he needed that colustrum to clear the jaundice, but the naive nursing staff fought and threatened and argued and all but demanded that I feed him formula to bring his weight up, which we continuously declined. By Sunday when we were to be discharged the team said they were keeping my child there due to his weight loss (all babies lose up to 10% of their birth weight in the first few days!) and jaundice. Again, I demanded to know why and was told that I would be reported to CPS if I tried to remove him from the hospital. Since Monday was a holiday, the soonest I would be able to take my son home was Tuesday, a full 5 days after being born and two full days after my discharge. I demanded to see the Lactation Consultant at the hospital, demanded to have my primary OB in the practice call me (on Sunday) and ultimately ended up taking my son home with the *threat* that I better take him to the pediatrician on Tuesday or they would report me to CPS.
My son, now 7 and in first grade, has been diagnosed with severe ADHD, a pragmatic language impariment, and is possibly ASD.
Uh huh. Great system we have. *Expletive*.
I hope these poor parents win MILLIONS in a lawsuit against the brutish police and the hospital. And i hope whoever made the decision to take this poor baby away from his mommy and daddy get to experience losing their own child one day. Not hoping their child dies, mind you, but hope they have someone yank their child from them and hope they are beaten and pushed when their parental instincts kick in and they try to protect their baby.
I am so tired of CPS, the police and doctors overstepping their bounds. What the hell happened to AMERICA???? We are living in a freaking police state!!!!
CPS answers to no one, that's why they're the thugs of choice for governmental and quasi-governmental organizations.
I hope Alex and Anna read this – there is a man who is now a QUADRUPLE AMPUTEE because of medical neglect at Sutter Memorial Hospital. He lost all four limbs to sepsis because they treated him improperly. There is now a huge lawsuit pending. I'd like for them to contact this man and his attorney. I don't have his name or email with me BUT he lives next door to the right of 2001 Van Nuys Way in Rancho Cordova. His wife is lovely and very informative and I know in my heart these two families should meet.
Im going through kind of the same bullcrap, my fiance was ill for a very long time and docs found nothing wrong with her every time we went to the hospital. We were moving back to our house after it was rebuilt from a house fire and she was feeling weak but wanted to help move things and while i was taking my mother to a dr. Appointment she fell down the stairs and got a nasty bruise. When we got into the new house she started having flashbacks of the house burning down, she ran outside and collapsed on the ground where my mother and i picked her up off the ground by under her arms, which she has always bruised easily and just picking her up like that left bruising. Next few days went by with her normal bouts of neusea and vomiting when finally she decided t o go to the hospital again. The hospital finally finds whats wrong with her and sends her into the operating room. While on the operating table surgeons notice the bruises and call cps. Here i am 6 months later with no daughter this whole time, labeled as a domestically violent person and have to pay for domestic violence courses
One word>>>>>>>>LAWYER! I understand we have to see doctors for ur health and our children's health, but I DO NOT TRUST THEM! Thank goodness we see a family friend as our pcp, I do NOT TRUST HOSPITALS and this is just from personal experience of losing someone due to hospital personnel not reading tests correctly and not trusting a patient telling them something is not right only to have that patient die a couple days later. You are entitled to a second opinion and if you don't feel safe at a hospital you make the call to stay or seek a second opinion. Just saying, get that baby away from those people especially if they had already messed up once.
John Shafer via Facebook
I can't understand why they wouldn't let these parents get a second opinion. In the past they always told people when it came to their health or their children's health to get a second opinion if they feel the doctor isn't looking out for their best interests or to confirm what the first doctor is saying. These parents didn't abuse their child but were making what they felt was an informed decision. Yet in my area, CPS didn't protect 3 little girls from their mentally deranged father and he end up killing them. I feel the taxpayers money is being wasted her on a case they should not be sticking their noses in. Use these CPS for children that actually need protecting, not parents who want a second opinion on their child's health.
Jonathan Smith
What i think on that is PRIDE. They were to PRIDEFUL to admit if they were wrong. It's not Biblical to be prideful.
Jennifer Brown via Facebook
It's encouraging people to be secretive and to avoid medical care all together which can be scary in some instances, not to mention the stealing our freedom of choice in how we care for our own families.
I've read about some of the Christian Pro-Life opposers saying something similar. It's not that they want babies aborted, it's that if it becomes ILLEGAL to abort a fetus/baby, then the doctors can alert the government, who can step in and force a mother to have a child, even if there is known complication from that pregnancy that is threatening the mothers life. That is not the place of the government, as that mother may already have children born that need her alive, to care for them. It's scary to think that one little law like that can take our freedom and decision making within our own homes away and make it someone else's job. That job belongs to the individual.
Even before Roe v Wade, about a third of the states had legal abortion if the mother's life was at risk. You also need to weigh in the fact that abortions can have complications, even death, and then you end up with two people dead. Consider the abortionist from PA, who mutilated and killed since the super coil incident a few months after Roe. Also consider he was known to perform abortions past the legal point – this is flat out illegal and there is no grey area here. It is absolutely the government's place to pursue murderers. What's shocking is it was allowed to happen for nearly 40 years, all the area hospitals dealt with his patients that had botched abortions and in some cases, were obviously past the legal limit. One doctor hand delivered his complaint and nothing was done. (My source is the grand jury report on this case.) Lest you think it is an isolated case, a Bronx PP employee was just caught on camera instructing a client to flush her live baby down the toilet after it was born. The murder of a baby born alive, even during an abortion, is ILLEGAL. My guess is these babies (who are individuals in the eyes of the law if they are older than 24 weeks or born alive) would choose to live.
Jeanne Proteau
I have to say, and I don't take time to comment much on stories, but CPS and their tactics are gestapo style. I could tell of a dozen CPS involvements I've heard of over the years that are so off the wall it would take too much of this space The last one that was publicized in our county, involved a man given foster care status to a 2 yr old that he proceeded to shake to death. Come on people, someone needs to start investigating this agency and extensively. As for these particular parents in this article and their poor traumatized baby, I hope they sue the socks off of the hospital AND CPS. Jeez, what's this country coming too.
Aren't there any good lawyers in Kalifornicate ? This sounds to me like a situation where the parents could become extremely wealthy , with funds from Sutter hospital and the Sacremento police and possibly the State social services .
This is just like the story where the family didn't want to give their child chemotherapy and they took the child and did the chemotherapy anyway..How sad we have no right as parents anymore. I don't believe in immunizations nor chemotherapy. Why should a doctor be able to make me choose? I truly want what is best for my child. But then you have the people who let their kids die waiting for god to save them…
just watched video- It' says at the end that cps is trying to find someone to take in the baby??? meaning it is well enough to leave hossy and they still are not giving back to the parents?? They need some legal council fast. I do not see how this is legal at all.
Cass Schiffer-Mackie via Facebook
*******Ok… Did this happen today??? Cuz it says April 27th, which is today. I read this story months ago annnnnnnd commented on how sick it was. Now all of a sudden it is back on here saying they took the kid today and the hearing is on the 29th. I don't see anything else on the net about this. I seen this post months ago. Exact same people, video of cops…. This is some idiot setting this up. Can someone send a link other than the news10 post, which I've already seen months ago as we'll!!!!!!
This is why I believe in the 2nd Ammendment.
Anita Schatz via Facebook
What really upsets me, besides the fact that the 2nd hospital said they trusted the parents to care for their child, is when they took the baby the returned the baby to the hospital that the parents were concerned about making life threatening mistakes. Why not take the baby to the 2nd hospital? Sounds like all parental rights were taken here. We need to pray that they get their baby back.
I see a big lawsuit here, i wish i was on the jury!
Matthew Crockett
I look at behavior like this and I wonder how much it cost for the hospital to be so vigorously "protected" at the vigorous and unethical expense of parents and children via the eager collusion of the rings of criminals in charge of the local police and CPS.
Concerned Parent
This article is heartbreaking, but the conclusion the author draws is equally terrible. "Think long and hard before taking your child to the hospital". Are you serious? If my kid needs medical attention, there is nothing to think about.
This article is related to the discussion here. What are our rigths? "Is Mandatory Pediatric Chemo Institutionalized Child Abuse?"
Looks like this is not the end. This is just a beginning: "Californians sign petition to inject children with mercury, implement Orwellian police state modeled after Nazi Germany "
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040091_police_state_petition_Mark_Dice.html#ixzz2Ri4dWaEI
Tia Leone
A hearing is scheduled for Monday, April 29, 2013
Jim Porterfield via Facebook
Just more liberal BS. Wake up America.
My daughter was born at Sutter in Sac with complications. The specialist we saw did give me wrong information on my child's condition. In fact, when I went to another doctor he was shocked my daughter was on the regimen she was on. Just thought I would share that information.
and even i babe did have a condition that needed fast acting. they should have took back to kaiser where the parents were more comfortable also allow her to see her child and FEED it. babies need to be fed more than 3x a day.
sandra young
The same thing happened to me in 1991 in west palm beach fl. Theyy took my 15 mth old daughter away in a violent manner just because I left the ER without signing discharge papers after the dr told us he was ready to discharge her. After waiting for several hours and repeatedly asking nurses for the discharge papers we finally left. The next day the police and cops showed up with cps. To make a long story short my baby was ripped out of my moms arms screaming for us and sent to foster care for 11 days! We had a few court hearings then it was over but she was returned to me with bruises all over her body and had pneumonia and all we got were excuses from cps.
This is a case where shooting those stupid pigs in the face with a shotgun would have been justified. Any one of us would have been within our rights to shoot ANY kidnapper who'd entered our home with the intent to kidnap our children. Cops are no different. This is KIDNAPPING! There is no other way of describing what the state has done. KIDNAPPING! Period! And deadly force is justified when protecting our own children.
I'm so sorry to the parents to theses babies. This is so stupid. I would of done the same thing.
Destiney Marsh Fischer via Facebook
I don't think that's always a fair statement, I have had good and bad parents but some aren't able to have children or aren't able to add to their family and really enjoy it! But I don't feel this baby belongs there, He belongs with his mommy who loves him to pieces.
Unfortunately, we can't trust that this story is being fully and accurately reported here. That is not what this blog does.
There are a lot of red flags in the story, but it sounds as though a doctor, correctly or incorrectly convinced of an urgent problem, reported this family and that it took a couple of days to clarify the situation. The fact that the baby arrived at Kaiser and was not immediately diagnosed with a condition the other hospital took a couple of weeks to detect does not mean the baby is fine. The parent's opinion that the baby "looks fine" does not mean the baby is fine. If the parents didn't report the conclusion of the Sutter hospital to the Kaiser staff, the baby may not be fine even though he appears fine with basic testing. If the Sutter staff has legitimate reason to believe that the baby has an urgent heart condition about which the parents are in denial, they are *obligated* to act.
teresa banks
CPS is notorious about doing this in sacrament california. Kaiser is the worse, but I changed to them with my twins, because I was in preterm labor and on bedrest for almost 5months. I don't see anything wrong. The hospital had made mistakes with a newborn. I would have done the same with the mistakes they made.
As a CPS worker I find it very irritating that news articles write how CPS takes these babies…just FYI, CPS has to receive a report of suspected neglect or abuse so someone was concerned enough to call in a report THEN once CPS investigated and thought the Child may be in harms way, we have to file an emergency custody order and a Judge has to sign off on it… Along the way there are so many checks from other community services that a child is rarely removed for no reason. It's possible but very rare, just like anything is possible. CPS is the last line of defense for children who are abused and neglected but the government and communities don't support the workers who devote their lives to trying to save them. People see an issue and call CPS to let us deal with it when something could have been done way before to prevent the abuse or neglect. But it is CPS's fault the second something slips through the crack because we are carrying twice as many cases as federally recommended.
CPS has a quota to meet and the real offenders have usually grown up in the system and know how to circumvent CPS. CPS is totally useless. I have seen beautiful families ruined while horrific offenders continue on. As an earlier poster suggested – get a lawyer right away. I have a friend who is a lawyer and has represented countless victims of CPS abuse. It is unbelievable to me that CPS preys upon good families that are willing to set up home appointments in order to clear their name only to have their words all twisted and put on record. (One example being a barefoot child in the middle of the summer reported as not having proper clothing provided.) Do not let these liars in without a warrant. If CPS has more caseloads than it should, corners will be cut.
Trula Motta via Facebook
May be more to the story.
Elissa Jae Wagener via Facebook
It did just happen and in Sacramento, CA.
Elissa Jae Wagener via Facebook
It did just happen and in Sacramento, CA.
teresa banks
sac cps takes kids that dont need taking and leave the drug addicts with their kids. all cps is in cali is a cash cow. they never cared about what happened to him in their care.
Linda Ekis via Facebook
how frightful things like bthis are happening.
We can discuss the mistakes made by the parents but the bottom line is this: When you deal with CPS, the most important action to take is: GET A LAWYER. You need him/her to guide you AND to protect you from overzealous, self-important agents. Yes, you need a lawyer to help you deal with this government agency. Hire one who knows the social service jungle through experience. And hire the lawyer as soon as possible. We found out the hard way. Our family survived but we went through horrifying grief before we pulled ourselves together–with no help from the 'social workers' at CPS. I say again: When you have even a whisper of interaction with CPS, GET A LAWYER.
I too have experience with this. CPS are the hospital's guard dogs. The doctors and nurses will sick them on you and attempt to ruin you if you cross them. You give up all of your rights as a parent when you take your child to the hospital and sign in. It's all about malpractice and the staff covering their ass. Not about your child's well being. As long as they can prove they followed protocol ($). they don't care. If you disagree with their prescribed treatment, which may be totally unnecessary, or completely unwarranted and wish to leave with your child, they will call the police and have you thrown in jail. They will take your child, while they conduct an investigation. The results of which, will permanently be labeled with your name, so everyone can see that CPS investigated you. CPS does far more harm than good and should be abolished.
Please visit http://www.parentalrights.org and make your voice heard. Share with everyone. Thank you.
If that doctor cut my baby open for heart surgury without my permission, I would cut the doctor open.
This is completely wrong!!! My friend's baby died at the hands of her husband and it took over a year, and many injuries to the new baby before anything was done…these parents just want to have a healthy baby and they get him forcibly taken away. SCREWED UP!!
Mari Redder via Facebook
JAmes nimmons
THe last couple statements about hospitals meant to scare people into not going? it depends o which hospital you go to. HOnestly.. and in many states taking kids into Protective custody nets the state and foster organizations tons of money… look into that..
the police and doctors have no say to how we take care of our children unless they are dying and being abused other than that stay outta peoples lives, i think a law suit would be a good start!!!
Dina Garcia via Facebook
I am not surprised, god bless and good luck <3
Madelin Morrill via Facebook
I hope they sue the pants off of Sutter!!!!
JC Lincoln
Welcome to socialist Obamacare. Healthcare for the people!
Better check for an RFID chip.
I have a 7 yr old who has cancer and the social worker at the hospital keeps getting upset because we don't want social security (disability) income for our son. We are making it just fine why do we need to get it? They keep asking why i don't want to get it and making appointments for me to fill out the ssi paperwork. WTF? Why would i want to take money from our broke government. Why does the government think they know better than the parents?
Anyway they can control our children, they will. In our schools, hospitals, "communities"… it's all they want and once they have that, they become the parental authority. KEEP FIGHTING against them, Jess.
Karen Kintner-Norland via Facebook
Overstepping their bounds just a little, huh?
They need to sue the police department and CPS for kidnapping and mental anguish. This has happened before in other areas and the parents did sue and won.
These people need to use common sense…if the parents leave one hospital and go to another one…they have are doing right by their child…they are insuring that the baby gets the very best care.
'MSNBC Host Melissa Harris-Perry » All Your Kids Belong To Us'
this is what it is- it's no longer your kids- they're big brothers kids and you are just granted a privillege to have your input in raising them. but it can easily be taken away
Jill Oja via Facebook
So unbelievable, and these cases are sadly happening much more frequently
With hospital mistakes and infections picked up at hospitals causing over 100,000 deaths per year in the US – hospitals one of the largest CAUSES of death in our country. The police at CPS direction basically took the children from the safety of those who have the most concern for their wellbeing and took them to the place where they are at the greatest risk. This is NOT UNCOMMON – we had pretty much the same situation happen with the birth of our second child – who spent the first three days of her life in neonatal intensive care and not being fed when there was NOTHING WRONG WITH HER. Of course, she suffered the trauma of that experience as her first days of her life and we suffered the tens of thousands of dollars in bills. During the experience, we were warned not to take her from the hospital because the "cameras would see us." It was like living in a communist country!
Melissa Griffith Powell via Facebook
Go get a constable to accompany you and take that baby back.
The police state graduated with everyone cheering on April 15, 2013.
This kind of thing is the norm because the community does not recognize that the anonymous vote that gives a monopoly of violence force fraud and coersion to a group of people, like CPS, with the expectation that they will use that monopoly for our benefit is immoral.
Do we really need an arm of the government that claims to be protecting our children to have complete power to take our children away from us for any reason?
That is what has happened.
A monopoly of violence force fraud and coersion that is government!
Our natural predators, the phsychopaths and sociopaths, sieze that monopoly so they can predate on us legally and with impunity and we all believe they are using that monopoly for our benefit.
Our community has become fearful lazy and immoral, and most in the community don't recognize this.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
This just pisses me off. CPS doesn't take the kids that need to be taken and takes ones who don't need to be. It makes no sense!
Tiffany Teal Montague Simmons via Facebook
Thanks for sharing.
Michelle Vivino via Facebook
To quote my friend on this subject: " They claim that it is the mother who should decide of her baby should be killed if it is born alive after a failed abortion. Yet take a baby from parents who are trying to care properly for their son. This world is so sick and twisted!" Amen. It's okay to butcher them if they're "unwanted", but try to make good choices for your child after it's born? Watch out. Because now they belong to the "collective". I hope CPS goes DOWN~ hard~ after this. That poor family. What the heck happened to my country?
Brittany Hughes Ardito via Facebook
Isabella Fiske McFarlin
A friend of mine (in the 1970s) had her 3 month nursing baby taken away from her by cops and the Forest Service because she was camping at an approved camping site in the Ocala National Forest in Florida. Really, they did not approve of my father who would bring wild young hippies to his cabin in the Forest. But it was hard on P and E and still, I think, they feel it affected their feelings and his development. It was hard on them both, anyway.
Government should think twice before jumping in on parents unless there's clear evidence o f physical or sexual abuse going on. Spanking is abuse in my book btw.
Billy Hobbs
Doctors kill more people every year than we have lost in any war. They do this with mis-diagnosis, wrong medication or wrong procedure
They best sue that hospital and drive it into bankruptcy. They have a strong case and they will win. This hospital is going down. The hospital EGO needs to take a blow and its coming soon. Many Lawyers are probably already knocking on this couples door begging to take this case. Its a sure win and no they wont come after the baby again. The police are in trouble also.
Charlene Connell via Facebook
What about children who die BECAUSE of the medical care they receive? Is that OK, but children dying from no medical care is not? this is a complicated issue for sure, we see that in maternity care when women are being dragged to hospitals by police for refusing c-sections and operated on against their will. BUT this case is not hard. the parents were seeking medical care. their decision was based on an effort to seek the BEST care, instead of allowing a surgery w/o question that could do more harm than good. this is an EASY CASE of abuse by the system. the other case you linked: not so easy as I do not support the right of the govt to force you to always follow a doctor's advice. we are an over-medicated society. and doctors are not God.
Bill Glenn Jr.
Both Sutter Memorial Hospital and CPS were obviously wrong in this case, but I think it's a bit too simple to simply assert "PARENTS HAVE RIGHTS!"
In this case, yes, what the hospital did was wrong because it was stupid. But I don't think it's nearly so clear-cut with parents like Herbert and Catherine Schaible, who have already let two of their children die while they pray instead of getting them the medical attention they need.
You're seriously telling me it's acceptable to remove a child from a home for sexual or physical abuse when their parents are wicked, but it's not ok to remove them when they're in danger of dying from their parents stupidity?
Julie de Lagarde via Facebook
Everyone needs to know of their right to AMA – AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE – this means you sign a form to refuse further treatment and you legally do not hold the hospital accountable. This should get you out to find a second opinion without further trouble. Doctors cannot legally recommend this (which is our broken down health care system!) but we need to be educated as parents and citizens. Also, I would recommend that we all do research in our local areas as to the best hospitals and doctors that will advocate for our health should we require emergency care. I am a home-birthing real-food eating mom with unvaccinated children but my daughter experienced a severe injury and we found ourselves in hospitals requiring care that we otherwise would never have imagined ourselves needing.
Will Tickel via Facebook
To answer your question. The reason why is because the parents aren't really the parents – the state is. The parents are essentially the managers of the kid.
Little by little we are being owned.
I am a nurse. What people don't realize is how dangerous a hospital can be to your survival! Hospital infections and mistakes kill. I should know-my dad died due to a hospital infection. Patients and families should decide what's best with the help of their doctors because THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE RESULTS.
Amie Langes Porter via Facebook
Local news showed the discharge papers from Kaiser saying he was fine and well cared for.
This is insane. Sutter Health threw a temper tantrum because these parents wanted better care than Sutter was giving them & went to Sutter's competition. Now Sutter has custody of their kid. EVERYTHING about this is wrong.
Ruth H. Detjen via Facebook
there must be more to this slanted story. It seems incredibly simple and evil and child neglect cases are actually very complicated. CPS can not reveal too much because of confidentiality, so none of us are in a position to pass judgement because we don't have the medical records in our possession, nor were any of us there.
Jenni Fuchs via Facebook
This is ridiculous. Prayers for their family.
Andy Miles via Facebook
Exactly the same here Charlene!!! The tentacles of the state keep closing in on all of us! :'(
Charlene Connell via Facebook
First, Sutter almost killed me. That very hospital. They are horrid. The parents were right to remove the child. Second, if someone comes to steal your child w/o a badge, it's kidnapping. Since when is it NOT kidnapping just cause you have a badge. Taking that child who was not in immediate danger w/o a court order is more than a lawsuit issue. Someone trying to kidnap a child gives the parents a right to use lethal force. Unless we live in a police state now. Just sick. I wish some real justice would be done and Sutter would be placed in some sort of probationary condition of oversight, the cops would loose their job (we need cops who use their minds, not just follow orders) and the cps ppl involved go to jail. :/ These parents deserve more justice than just money.
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the parents have my sympathies. ..what a horrible system this is!!!
Wayne Tiller
This has been going on for years and decades. Ask any of Jehovah's Witnesses what the courts and doctors are willing to do if you refuse just one possible medical treatment. And how much time and resources they as a group have expended fighting for the rights of all Americans to have their right to choose for themselves and for their children. This is of no surprise to me. Appalling? yes … surprising? no
Sofia Panibratets via Facebook
JE McManus
This linked news article states that, "Anna Nikolayev claimed CPS had taken her 5-month-old son Sammy after she and her husband removed him from the Sutter Memorial Hospital intensive care unit without a proper discharge and before taking him to Kaiser Permanente for a second opinion."
It differs from what we are reading above, with a quote from the unnamed, attending doctor at Kaiser, indicating that the parents both visited Kaiser and were given the clean bill of health before CPS intervened. So which is it? Did they go for the second opinion or not?
×¨×•×ª× ×¡× ×" via Facebook
Really? I think of them more as a good reason blackmailing their parents!
Amie Langes Porter via Facebook
Sac CPS has had children die in their custody after numerous complaints so why they picked bullying this family is beyond a waste of time, tax payer dollars and everything that goes against common sense. Once they saw Kaiser's discharge papers they should have closed the case and moved on.
Imagine that. Cops acting inappropriately and then hiding behind bureaucratic red tape as a means to justify their actions. It is a shame that these poor parents and child had to subject themselves to such treatment and that all those responsible will walk away untouched and unpunished for their actions.
Amie Langes Porter via Facebook
Sac County CPS has had a lot of bad press in the last few years. I hope they have an excellent lawyer.
Kathryn Simmons McDonald via Facebook
They went to get a second opinion, they weren't fleeing the country, sheesh! If a nurse told me she had no idea why she was giving my baby antibiotics I would leave in a heartbeat!! this is crazy!!
Clarice O'Brien
Ok, this is so very wrong. Obviously CPS has it's reason to exist, but this is just going way too far. The parents were being very reasonable and responsible for taking their baby to another hospital when they started to feel uncomfortable with the care they were receiving for their son. And the thing that screamed out at me while reading this article was, if this baby was breastfeeding at the time he was taken, HOW CAN YOU JUST TAKE HIM AWAY FROM HIS MOTHER? The article doesn't say one way or the other about how the 5 month old was fed while in custody, but let's just assume it was traumatic for him, even more so if he was normally breastfed. How absolutely absurd. Makes me so angry.
Amber Keller
I don't know what I would do if this happened to me. Good luck to the parents and my prayers are with you.
This happened to us at the beginning of last year. Our pediatric dentist called CPS on us. We had faithfully seen him for 6-7 years and followed any treatment suggest for all our children. The problem came when we adopted our special needs daughter from over seas. To make a long story short, the charge he levied was 'dental neglect'. All because our daughter wasn't allowed on our insurance till our adoption was finalized and her dental bill quote from our dentist was for $1500 so we had to wait( which i told his office and they said ok). Luckily the social worker saw the claims were a complete joke and none of our children were removed. But it has really opened my eyes to self righteous professionals and I am extremely guarded now with Dr's, teachers, anyone of that nature.
Just Me
God Bless Russia, Thank God Russia banned Americans from adopting Russian children and subjecting them to such a Fascist Nation. This Russian couple should immediately, and I mean immediately get their baby and find the nearest Russian Embassy. This childs parents are Russian, which means the baby has the sovereign protection of the Russian Government. GET THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT AND RUSSIAN EMBASSY INVOLVED. GO KICK SOME FASCIST ASS RUSSIA.
If the child was born in the U.S., that would make him a U.S. citizen and not under any "protection" of Russia
Les Wilson via Facebook
Horrible & scary!!!
Jane Sheridan Collins via Facebook
California has been out of control for many years. People who live in beach communities are at special risk. The idiots love to have open cases at the beach.
I had a similar situation when I took my 13 month old daughter into the emergency room for a boil on her inner thigh…. The next day CPS showed up demanding to investigate they wanted to look around my house and inspect my children. I even got a note from her pediatrician stating that she was prone to them as well as her brother that he said that it was nothing but a viral type infection. I almost lost all of my kids over it.
Thomas Kirby
So their thugs didn't want to act up in a reputable hospital? Sue the pants off that so-called officer.
CPS took my 10 yr old daughter because I became addicted to prescription migraine medication after my husband was murdered. I have not taken any medication for a year and have jumped threw all of CPS's hoops plus more. Now almost 16 months later they will not return my daughter and every time when I ask why I get a different answer and they are always lies! They even have me sign paperwork and after they make a copy for me they ad tons of pages full of lies that I did not sign, read or agree to! They don't want to return kids because they make a ton of money off each kid they take! And to top it off they placed my child in a house where the husband has a drug and alcohol problem with a long criminal record! When I told them they called me a liar! But its public knowledge and anyone can look up your criminal record. CPS does not care for kids… just about making money!
enjoy the police state you allowed to happen.
keep loving your beautiful obummer
Exactly Sofia! The best interest of the child was the baby being with the parents. Common sense shows the child was not neglected.
And if I were them, I would be afraid to sue, afraid they would come after my baby again.
AFRAID TO SUE, I call that a tyrannical state.
they wont grab the baby especially if a suit is brought against the police as well, They will so and this hospital has a big lesson coming. I hope they bankrupt those evil b@stards
Someone else brought it to our attention that since Sammy's parents are Russian citizens, Sammy has dual American and Russian citizenship. This means he is also under the protection of the Russian government. First, call the Russian embassy in Washington, D.C., and ask them to appeal on his behalf. Second, call CPS and the police and tell them that the Russian government will put out international warrants for their arrest unless they release him back to his parents. Sutter Hospital can also be charged as accessories after the fact.
God forbid this would ever happen to me. I don't thinking I would be able to hand my baby over for nothing. This is so horrible. How is CPS thinking about the child??? By taking him away from loving caring parents and puttiing him in foster care!!
Last week I reported a family that lives behind mine after seeing the father drag his one year old by the arm across the yard, smack him repeatedly, then throw him inside of their house and proceed to scream (I mean so loud his voice started to cut out at the end) at him to shut up and that he didn't care if he hurt and not a thing was done. Not by calling the police and not by reporting to this so-called protective agency. The police pulled up in front of the house after over an hour and just looked at the house then drove away. I am very vigilant now to have a camera ready if this happens outside of the home again because this is not the only abusive thing happening to that child and their three other children. It makes me sick that abusive parents like those are allowed to keep their children without so much as a visit to check on the children by localy police or social workers but these parents whose only apparent flaw is questioning unnecessary medical procedures has their child taken away. And it is awfully telling that CPS placed the child in protective care at SUTTER hospital… Guess Sutter knows how to get their money for unnecessary procedures.
Bless you, bless you, bless you, Cassandra! Thank you for watching out and being a voice for the children who live behind you. Many people in the world could learn a thing or two from upstanding individuals like you! I hope you catch that SOB on camera next time!!
That's not the moral of the story. The story isnt finished yet. If you have the facts straight, these innocent parents having their child taken because of negligent doctor opinions then somebody was negligent and these parents should sue for the harm they've suffered.
da man
this situation isn't shocking to me. the pigs go off the word of a butt hurt physician and see what happens? everyone should be skeptics of the system, question everything, and get second opinions. F'ing douchbags at Sutter, don't go there ever is the moral of this story.
This just gave me goosebumps! So messed up!!!
No wonder people take their guns and shot other people. They WOULD NOT have taken my baby back to Sutter except over my dead body and I can guarantee you some of them would have been lying there along with me. No one takes my kids under false pretenses just because some hospital administrator is power hungry.
I am very fortunate to be on the Family Advisory Board @Children's Hospital Of Illinois, where families have all the rights. We insure that Patient Family Centered Care is practiced every day by every one. Divots are required to discuss every action with parents and respect their input. Doctors and residents are held accountable to the parents and not visa versa.
The action taken by this hospital is no different that what a Nazi state would take. It should be avoided at all costs.
Heather Davis via Facebook
I see the share button. It's also on Tropical Traditions FB page to share
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Debbie L.
I see what everyone is saying and I also have read the article thoroughly. I work in Community Mental Health Services and I have to admit that yes, this happens at times, and I also agree that there are many children out there that are abused and nothing is ever done about it….but as a parent…and since I do see so many cases of child abuse that "appear" to be handled incorrectly, I do think that the majority of the people that work for CPS do the best they can, but as with any area in Human Services and Medical Service, there are those that make poor decisions….but as with our agency, we make our judgement, not in favor of the parent most times, but in the interest of the child's health and welfare. And unfortunately, the parent feels that they are being "screwed" and sometimes they are, but whenever I make a decision to call CPS, it is done totally because I feel that all the issues point to neglect, abuse or exploitation and the parent or legal guardian are held responsible. And this is one time that being "guilty before proven innocent" is how the system works, because if something is not done and then the child is abused or neglected and they get hurt severly or they die, then I would be the one responsible for letting it happen. So please think about the people that do actually report these types of incidents if you have never been in the situation where you didn't stand up and do something and someone else ended up suffering moreso for your not stepping in and trying to do the right thing.
So many just "bitch" about it and never take the time to research the situations or even ask anyone about the process or consider that not everything you hear is the truth, especially in the media, whether in written form or reported on the internet or news. Please think about your own children and if something was happening to them that was putting them in danger. Sure I would be pissed if I didn't do anything wrong, but would also be grateful for someone caring enough to try and do what was best for my child. Keep in mind that if someone is abusing their child, sometimes they fight just as hard if not harder to declare their innocence as they do when they are innocent!
Pamela McMaster
This is unconscionable!!! I am an RN in a hospital and simply cannot imagine something like this occurring here!! These poor parents! This was a crime on the part of the hospital, CPS AND the police department. Unbelievable. I pray that the parents are vindicated and their child is returned immediately.
This particular case shown above is just absolute crap. There are parents out there that don't even have regular doctors and don't even seek help for their kids when they are injured, and yet they will call CPS on a set of parents who seek a second opinion on their child's care? Give me a break.
Shirley Kuhn Dobbins via Facebook
There's no share button….wonder what happen to it?
Sounds like some bad press for that hospital. Woe to them!
Paula Steigauf via Facebook
A second opinion is USUALLY GRANTED by the insurance companies and in most cases a WISE CHOICE in complex medical matters. This RN, BSN ALWAYS SUPPORTS verification of diagnosis and 'plan of action.' PEACE OF MIND and ability to work with the medical team are PARAMOUNT to a SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME.
Andrea Shaw via Facebook
Crazi-fornia; seems like these cases are more prevalent there..
Lyn Carter
What can we do to change this? How horrendous. I hate the healthcare system. They can't force us to choose their way!
Gregory Lake
This is just outrageous!! The person responsible and their organization should be sued to the maximum! This violates the Constitutional rights of every American! We are not supposed to be in a police state where due process has been removed!
Except that when you don't take your children for proper medical care then you are charged with child abuse/neglect. So it seems like a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. These parents were concerned about the level of care their child was receiving and when they questioned it the medical staff didn't know the answers!
Jim Abston
I've watched the video. It's really sad that incident like this happens. Those parents were just protecting their child because they think that the Doctors in the Hospital are incompetent. Is that negligence? That's unfair!
Nick Krancher via Facebook
There is a term for regimes that arrest parents for seeking second opinions about their childrens health and it isn't "republic of limited government." Even George III wouldn't have done this.
One reason we're the Brokest Nation In History is because the great moronic bureaucracy of the United States devotes untold resources to criminalizing the law-abiding.
The government serves no serious purpose except to accustom free-born peoples to behaving like a compliant bovine herd. America is now a land where you can have your children taken away from you for seeking a second opinion. Sometimes a society becomes too stupid to survive.
I wonder if they will just do the heart surgery on the baby now….The pompous doctor is the one that should be punished for this. It's not really about children's rights, it's about what doctors or government want. So a doctor has more rights than the woman who gave birth..How ridiculous.
Aces Israel via Facebook
yeah keep the nazi government out of our families homes!! im so pissed about things like this. and yet they leave kids with their abusive parents in detroit….
Anna tried to discharge herself from Sutter Hospital, and the doctor refused to sign her out, so she left & went straight to Kaiser. I live in Sacramento and have been following this story since it broke. I hope that all the coverage will pressure CPS into giving in, but it's hard to say. They are proud, and don't like to be told they are wrong.
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I had the same thing happen to me on March 15th of this year! It really is unfair that they can do this to families that dont deserve it. I have been a mom for 7 years and have never had any problems like this before. All it takes is a special needs baby and they come take both children from a healthy family. Saddly to say my infant who never even got a cold in the first 9 months of her life while I had her ended up getting a skin infection since being in a foster home and yet im the one being accused of neglect! Having CPS come destroy your family is one of the hardest things a mother could do for!!
Jul Almario Taylor via Facebook
Cps was called on me when my daughter was born , because i agreed to a drug test because i had government insurance. They took pee out of the little thing that sit inside the toilet. My husbands step father had used the restroom and my test came back positive for bartuiates. The hospital called cps. Cps made me take another dug test then they drug tested my new born, both came back negative, but the embarrassment was bad. We won our lawsuit, but no money is worth what they put you through. While drug addicts and abusers keep their children
Carolyn Okland Friesz via Facebook
the video wouldn't open up on this! Sad story – makes one fear for what's to come in this sad country we call the US of A!
Denise Gallie Rollick via Facebook
Not wiser at all. They are a blessing!
Can you keep us updated? I will be watching this as should we all. I can't believe CPS had the right even after Kaiser said baby was fine and able to go home. I would have bene arrested and calling every lawyer in town before they took my 5m. old who would be exclusivley breast fed. Taking him is endangering my child. This is sooo so scary to think of happening. I hope all parties involved are sued for abusing and mishandling this whole thing!
Paul Hardiman via Facebook
Who polices CPS?
Tasha L.
That is the issue. CPS is an example of how "administrative law" hurts our society. There should be laws against abuse and neglect, and we should appropriately fund our local police force to help keep law and order.
The problem with CPS is that they can decide if you are a good parent, and if they don't think so, then the police can be called in to take your children. If we had not turned our rights over in creating agencies like CPS, then there would still be appropriate trial and sentencing before parents were "guilty". It wouldn't always work perfectly, but a society where we don't have rights as parents is frightening.
For instance, CPS can say that if you spank your child (or something more ridiculous, as in this case), your child can be removed from the home. If the authority was kept with the police force, there would have to clearly be a law against spanking (or seeking a second medical opinion). If you didn't agree with the law, you could work to get it changed. With "administrative law", you lose that right. The government agency has total control of what they deem wrong or illegal. It is the same with the FDA, another administrative law agency. They can say it is illegal to drink raw milk, and we have no way to change that. We should have clear laws that we can have some influence over.
Praying for these parents. Heartbreaking.
Emily Keffler via Facebook
What is horrifically tragic is that these cases are only going to make parents more hesitant to seek out medical care for their children lest the state intervene and they find themselves childless, or strong armed into a procedure that may not be in the child's best interest. I know I feel much more anxious about taking our baby to the doctor unless it is absolutely necessary. If I disagree with the ped. is she going to report us? The last time we were there for a stomach flu they made us give our baby DIET gatorade in the office before we left for nonemergent dryness – she wasn't to the point of dehydration yet. What would have happened if I pitched a stand off on a choice I disagreed with? Heaven forbid parents be informed and confident!
Cass Schiffer-Mackie via Facebook
Weird…. I read this same story last year…. But it says it just happened on April 27th. Did you check into this? Cuz i literally read the exact same one, same people, same thing with the baby
×¨×•×ª× ×¡× ×" via Facebook
It is wiser not to have children at all!
Antoinette Dick via Facebook
Good GOD .. little Nazis popping up everywhere now!!!
jakes nana
Again I strongly encourage everyone to read the Bill Of Rights in the Constitution. It is time we fight with the people that were hired and took an oath to defend, protect and preserve these rights. Tell them it is time for them to work on making the country work properly and leave us alone, like they are supposed to. These rights are there to protect everyone from government, because you have the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Jan Jolley via Facebook
If these parents had only taken the baby home from the first hospital and were denying medical care for him, I could see CPS getting involved. But the fact that they went immediately to a second hospital and were told everything was fine and told to go home, but CPS ignores that doctor's diagnosis completely and acts on the first doctor's is ridiculous. All they should have had to do was show the second hospital's discharge papers and the whole case should have been dropped. Changing care is not parental neglect
The first hospital, Sutter Memorial, was trying to protect their reputation and keep from a malpractice lawsuit, by "proving" the child was in danger because he had to be removed from the parents' custody. There is probably a doctor or nurse at Sutter Memorial who new about the child's situation and whom works closely with someone at C.P.S. and they called their contact at C.P.S. and requested the child be removed from his parents…it happens ALL THE TIME. It's not what you know but who you know that gets results.
bert trim
Good God! Talk about "Police State" Once you enter the system (hospital) your rights ar as good as GONE. Someone should give these folk heads a good shaking. Shame on you!, so called professionals. Or is it that the Hospital can't refuse a good money grab.
If you find this news alarming, then take action before it becomes the law of the land. Contact your Congressmen to vote AGAINST the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Once ratified the government will call the shots for your children. Be proactive and support the Parental Rights Amendment to constitutionally prevent the usurpation of parent's rights to make the best decisions for their own child's care. It's now or never, Moms and Dads.
Lucy, thank you for mentioning this. It is so important that people know the dangers of this treaty!
I never heard of this thank you. I will be contacting my congressman . People need to be made more aware.
Lucy- Thanks for pointing this out….I was totally clueless about this. EVERYONE please take a moment to visit this site and educate yourself about what is truly going on…….And people say there is no New World Order….sheesh! Its right under your nose!!
Jim Geesman
This is an egregious abuse of power and as outrageous an affront to common sensibilities as anything I've heard or read in a long time. I thought California was better than this. My guess is that a high level administrator at Sutter, someone high in the sheriff's organization and at CPS are either related or very good friends, and this action did not follow proper procedures. I hope it receives recognition for abuse, a full investigation and appropriate penalties are levied, including terminations and incarcerations. We should not allow this kind of behavior from our government. The government is supposed to be supportive, not destructive.
Shana Mc via Facebook
This story if horrifying, and I wish we could say the only one of its kind…occurrences like these are becoming far too common .
Absolutely ridiculous and shocking that responsible parents would be treated in such a manner. I am disappointed and saddened at the direction this country is headed. My children are now 17 and 19 and I've always been nervous about how some medical professionals did not have respect for my choices as a parent. We are very health conscious and my hubby is a chiro/acupuncturist so we take a more natural approach with our kids. I questioned one pediatrician and he called me "one of those kinds of parents" in a very derogatory tone. No, I am a parent who educates myself and asked responsible questions. Needless to say, we found a new doctor.
Katie Andrews Clark via Facebook
, that's awful. Her baby is probably nursing. Who knows if he's 4ever had a bottle. Who's going to CPS the hospital if the baby doesn't take well to the formula they'll have to give? What if the Mom struggles with supply from stress and not nursing? On and on… Nonsense. If they want everyone too seek medical care, it cannot be a hostage situation
Roxann Walas via Facebook
I'm just mystified by this!! What is up?? A baby is taken out of his home for supposed neglect even though the second hospital said he was fine to go home!?!?!?! I hope and pray that this gets settled quickly. The idea of CPS is great, but what about the kids that are really abused? Why aren't they taken out of their homes.
Victoria Farrell-Gollihugh via Facebook
Belle Miller via Facebook
This is appalling. However I think people are misunderstanding the idea of kids belonging to the community. It isn't meant to justify unnecessary removal of kids or that the government controls parenting. It's about making sure all kids are cared for, healthy, educated etc even if they aren't our own. Personally that's what I think a society is for, even with adults.
It's been taken too far, the concept of kids being cared for. We should care about kids being abused but now this new rule has given them the right to override the parents and in essence, the government does own our kids. They can be taken at the whim of some official, who might want to take revenge against someone by taking their child.
Maybe they should consider getting the HSLDA to represent them….. there was another case that HSLDA handled in Hershey, Pa a couple years ago.
Denise Neeley Earnest via Facebook
I was told by a law enforcement officer that NO ONE, not a cop or any government agency has the right to ever enter your home without a warrant. Refuse to allow them access and demand that they return with a warrant. Honestly though, I do wonder what they would to to someone who resisted giving them access…..
Denise Neeley Earnest via Facebook
I was told by a law enforcement officer that NO ONE, not a cop or any government agency has the right to ever enter your home without a warrant. Refuse to allow them access and demand that they return with a warrant. Honestly though, I do wonder what they would to to someone who resisted giving them access…..
Wayne Tiller
That is why they are systimatically taking away you're power to resist by disarming law abiding people. So they can come into your home without cause and seize what they want weather it be your material belongings or your children.
"In the meantime, Anna and Alex have been granted additional visitation with Sammy this weekend. They will be allowed to feed Sammy three times a day on Saturday and Sunday. While it's good news, they just wish they could bring Sammy home."
The above is an update from ABC News 10. If Anna were breastfeeding, three times a day wouldn't be nearly enough. This is utterly reprehensible.
That is heartbreaking! CPS and the hospital should have to answer for this- and face criminal charges if they can't provide ample evidence that this was necessary– especially in the face of having a second opinion on record! I'm just sickened.
I've noticed when I have had my babies in the hospital that doctors and nurses do not take kindly to refusing any sort of medical treatment. When I was last there they wanted to give me a vaccine for whooping cough although I had just had one the year before with my second pregnancy. I was glad that i was educated enough to know that they aren't needed that frequently. Uh- just disgusts me!
Annette McLaughlin via Facebook
Parents don't own their children any more. When gov't started getting involved in divorces, parents lost their rights over their children. It's very sad. And even sadder, is the children who are being abused and left with their parents. I turned in a man for being a pedophile and Child Protective Services said, they had such a backlog they couldn't help me, even though the perpetrator fled the state, which proved he was guilty.
How painful it must be for that mother…I can't imagine….
fleeing doesn't prove guilt. Especially in our courts where men accused of sex crimes are usually guilty until proven innocent- and they fight an uphill battle the whole way.
Nichole Fisher Patrick via Facebook
it is disgusting that CPS would take a child away due to the crappy care he was receiving at one hospital. I used to work in pediatrics at a hospital in Detroit. It was depressing. I quit. I work in adult ICU now and it isn't any better. If you don't agree with the doctors they get pissed
Janet De Nubilo
CPS is arrogant and seems to only go for the easy cases. Real child abuse is ignored. Two granddaughters on opposite sides of the US had hospitasl call CPS when they took their babies to ER. Both cases were dismissed for no cause, but one had her 11 month old taken from her and could not see him until the hearing – two or three weeks away – except for his first birthday with supervision. When the hearing came, CPS was like "ha, ha. Jokes on you. Everything is fine. Take him home." Certainly makes everyone think twice before taking a child to the doctor or ER. Sad.
Gideon Weick via Facebook
This can happen because most people have been lured unwittingly into making a secular contract with the state called a "marriage license." In that contract, the state is the dominant party and lays out the rules to the secondary parties, i.e., those getting married, who, by their signatures, consent. Your offspring belong to the dominant party. That is why the state believes that it has the legal authority and standing to tell you what you must do with "your" children, because, it maintains, the children belong to the state. Sick, huh? But that is what CPS and the courts believe. For an enlightening article on the subject, go to http://www.usavsus.info/MarriageLicenses-TheRealTruth.htm
Nate Wilson
Unbelievable….our rights are under attack. Things are just getting worse as the government grows larger.
While my previous comment is awaiting moderation, I will simply say that I'm praying for this victimized family. Hopefully, this story will get enough attention that it will wake up a few unsuspecting people and possibly bring reform to a broken CPS system.
Thats DISGUSTING… Heres what happened to me with my 7 month old only a couple of weeks ago….. The local media went viral with it !
Chris Woolridge via Facebook
Obamacare was written by big insurance…if you think it has anything to do with 'care' (as in someone cares about you), you are delusional at best.
We are slowly loosing all our rights! The cop that broke into their house to kidnap the baby should be brought up on charges. I know the people didn't have time with the baby but it could happen to you. Stay as healthy as you can! This is important with this new buma care coming in. This is the main reason I like this website, to stay healthy. Sara knows some junk!
only thing wrong with this article is the date they use. Thursday was not the 27th and wow they got a hearing quickly
"Think long and hard before taking your children to the hospital my friends. Once you go through that door, the medical decisions about your child are no longer within your control"
While this is a horrible story, it is very irresponsible of this site to suggest parents not take their kids to the hospital for treatment.
I posted this link a moment ago and my post isn't showing up – not sure what is going on but I am going to try again. Please visit http://www.parentalrights.org – this is a group working very very hard to protect parental rights in this country.
Rebecca Flannery via Facebook
One more reason we need the Parental Rights Amendment.
Heather Anderson
This is outrageous! I am aware that things like these are happening, but for some reason I still feel shocked every time I learn of a new situation. Both our medical system and social services is out of control.
Unfortunately not taking your children isn't an option either. I have a very dear friend of mine that has been in Jail for 5 years with a life sentence for NOT getting to the hospital on time. Flu like symptoms. Didn't know the child was mortally ill(mother of 5). He ended up dying (4yrs old). She was charged with murder and her husband is now a "single parent". It's scary folks. Freehannah.com
This government is insane. I have an idea. Next election lets all vote for the lesser of 2 evils again. That will fix it. Idiots.
CAS called me to say they wanted to come over to investigate an incident where i allegedly "punched" my daughter in the head "with a metal bar" in public. i explained what happened: my daughter is a bolter (she hadn't yet been identified as having asperger's, ADHD, and impulse control disorder) and i had her out with me, walking the dog. the dog's leash has a carabiner clip on the loop so i can secure him while shopping, doing the laundry, etc. we were on the busiest street in our little town – it's a winding S shape that follows the river to you can't see more than 50ft or so before the road curves again and ppl do NOT drive the limit, so you really have to be careful. we were walking past a house when my daughter saw something on the other side of the road.
"Look!" she said and my hand, holding the loop with the carabiner clip, instinctively came down in a block just as she moved to dart into the road with cars coming from both directions, clipping her a good on the forehead. i was aghast and bent to check that she was okay but a woman doing her lawn began shouting at me, calling me a child abuser. i asked if she seriously thought i should have let my daughter experience the "natural consequences" of darting into the road with high-speed traffic coming from both directions, told her to get a life, and finally (when she would NOT stfu), exactly where she could stick with which implement.
the CAS worker said that was all well and good, but she still had to come over to see and she'd be over the next morning. i said fine, whatever. after i hung up, i realized the next day was my daughter's birthday party and the house would be full of ppl. it was literally a matter of "hang up…. oh, crap!… hit the number to dial back" but now she's not answering the phone. i left a message saying next day is no good and call back to reschedule.
the next morning she showed up at my door. i told her she wasn't coming in and showed her my cell phone with the log of her call, lasting ten minutes and 20-something seconds, and my calling her back 11min later. we had a discussion out in the hall that got louder and louder, where she said such ridiculous things as:
"we're just like the police" – i said if you're just like the police, then, JUST LIKE THE POLICE, you can go to court and get yourself a warrant bec you're not getting in my house now without one.
she said "you don't want me taking this before a judge – we're the CAS and we rarely lose". i laughed in her face and said "honey, i was a relief home for CAS for over 20yrs and in my experience, you rarely win! it's a sad state of commentary when the number one rule of lawyers in court is if the CAS is in, the first motion is to get them out".
she left and never came back – EVER.
we have a 'darter' too so i completely understand this. People don't a clue about this type of stuff and are always quick to judge.
Jen Willett via Facebook
That hospital and local and also state government should expect a lawsuit over this.
Joann-uh M Roberts via Facebook
There is a mass awakening, but there are still those who have contented themselves to sit in the dark. So many people can watch that video I posted and just roll with it.
Brittany E.
Here's the Sutter Memorial Hospital's number (916) 454-3333… I'm calling them! This is outrageous! The parents names are Alex and Anna Nikolayev. Anybody else joining me? I'm so fed up with parents being disregarded!
Um, let's not do that. It's not the fault of the entire staff of the hospital and inundating them with complaints about a situation most of them had nothing to do with will only get in the way of them caring for their patients.
Just Me
These parents are Russian, which means this baby has the sovereign protection of the Russian Government. When calling Sutter Memorial Hospital, inform them that you will also be contacting the Embassy of the Russian Federation in Washington DC to make a plea for the Russian Government to intercede on behalf of baby Nikolayev.
The number to the Russian Embassy in D.C. is 202-939-8907, and the Ambassador Extraordinary is his Excellency Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak.
You should also call CPS and the Police Department and inform them that you'll be contacting the Russian Embassy to ask the Russian Government to intercede, and that' you'll also be asking the Russian Government to issue international arrest warrants to the CPS agents and Police who kidnapped this baby from the family.
Got it. I'm going to take care of this come Monday. Boy, are they going to be in trouble.
I called the embassy, and the young lady who helped me referred me to the consulate in San Francisco. The numbers are (415) 928-6878 , (415) 202-9800. The consul's name is Nikita Nazorov. A word of advice-their English might not be the best, so be patient.
I think calling the hospital and the Russian Embassy are excellent ideas. We should stand up for the parents and their baby who are innocent victims, and protest the actions of this obviously corrupt hospital and the bullies in CPS and law enforcement. I can only pray that others would do the same for my and my children if we were ever in a similar situation.
Cæsar Vega via Facebook
You can request that your baby be transferred to another hospital. Your insurance can help you do that, especially if you have quality of care concerns. Did they talk to the administrator on call? The medical director about their concerns? Patients get transfered between facilities all the time. Did they request a second option or just grab the baby and walk out the door? Maybe they did, I don't know. Also, this makes me suspect that the physician assuming care at Kaiser didn't call the physician at the previous hospital to report that the baby was under their care. I see many ways that this situation could have been avoided. I feel for the parents and hope this is quickly resolved for them.
These stories are becoming far too common, and I guarantee that things are only going to get worse. Congress is trying to pass the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child which is basically a way to usurp parental rights from every angle. If you think it is bad now, just wait. Please visit http://www.parentalrights.org to find out what you can do NOW to stop the madness.
Misty Moore
The sad part is this can happen. The best thing in this type of situation is they have to honor your choice to transfer your child is to demand a transfer to your choice of hospitals and then they have no reason to call in CPS. Either way the doctors and nurse need to learn when a true CPS call is due. This time that would not have been true. And the COPS have the rights here to report back to CPS with what they was told by the other medical staff. And I would be finding me a dang good Lawyer to take some doctor and a hospital down along with getting my child back.
Brandy Mills via Facebook
I hope this family owns the whole county after this is over. First of all, they need their baby returned asap. I hope that doctor loses his license, I hope the hospital, police dept and CPS all get made an example of that you cannot get mad because your ego is hurt because someone disagrees with your opinion. This is outrageous.
Jeni Clark
Hard to not saying anything except WHAT THE HELL! This is not the first story! This is happening EVERYWHERE! Omg. Terrifying to say the LEAST! NOBODY is immune to this happening to them, NOBODY.
More the reason to learn how to take control of your HEALTH and PRAY you never are in a life/death situation, needing medical care.
Prayers go out to this family that COULD be my husband and I.
"Think long and hard before taking your children to the hospital my friends. Once you go through that door, the medical decisions about your child are no longer within your control"
My children rarely went to the hospital or the doctor. But this is becoming more common now, though still rare. Most hospitals still recognize the right of the parent to make final decisions about the care of their children. So the above statement is a little exaggerated.
Reminds me of the Johanssons who had Dominic taken from them and after four years have still not gotten him back.
Bob Farnham via Facebook
It's a very tricky subject and there are no simple answers
Heart Surgery?? Sacramento??? Something rings familiar here.
A few years ago in Redding there was a huge scandal about two doctors. The "joke" in that town was, "don't get a flat tire near the hospital or you'll end up with by pass surgery." They were performing unnecessary heart operations and raking in billions. There was a book entitled "Coronary" by Stephen Klaidman about it.
These parents need to get a lawyer and fast.
Lisa Allen via Facebook
Please update us on this if you can
Remember we dont know all the facts. This sounds like a very tragic story. On the other hands hand had the baby become more ill or died you would all crying fowl as well.
Tonya Scarborough via Facebook
The tragedy is death, which ultimately, so one has control over – not that the parents didn't seek medical intervention. It's a slippery slope to require anyone to seek medical attention in the way that someone else sees fit.
Joe Robinson via Facebook
Is our world truly going insane? This is completely unacceptable.
Kimberly Neudorf via Facebook
is that real?? Did anyone hear what she was saying?? My word. Reminds me of this video – he's saying things and the people keep signing… don't they hear him??? http://youtu.be/S0Qobbn6880 yeesh
Thank you for publicizing this sad and shocking story. I too had similar experiences not once but twice when one of my children was a baby. The first time, he ran a fever at two months old and the pediatrician who was on call in our doctor's practice threatened to report me for child neglect if I didn't bring him in to the hospital, and then let her perform a spinal tap, because of the miniscule chance that he might have meningitis. I will never forget my infant's screams from the invasive and unnecessary procedure, his diarrhea and uncharacteristic, incessant crying from the "precautionary" antibiotics, and the inability of either of us to get any healthy sleep for two nights with bright lights and hospital personnel in and out of our room all hours of the night.
I also will never forget the advice of one kind and knowledgeable nurse who told me that ibuprofen will often bring down a severe fever when acetaminophen doesn't work; the latter was what they administered in the hospital, which promptly reduced his temperature. Though I use medications sparingly, this advice could have brought down his high fever if the pediatrician had simply told me this initially on the phone, and we could have avoided all the trauma of being bullied and tortured by that doctor "for our own good."
The second incident was similar, with yet another pediatrician in our main doctor's practice recommended that my son see a specialist for a separate issue when I brought him in for a simple cold. Mistakenly believing it was advice rather than a command, I chose not to go, as I had already researched and consulted with doctors, and had opted not to have surgery for the issue which was chiefly if not wholly cosmetic. Without consulting our doctor or contacting me for more information, this doctor reported us to CPS for alleged neglect, and I then had to submit to interviews and communications with CPS, and take my son to see another specialist to "prove" to the government that I wasn't neglecting my child.
These experiences that occurred more than a decade ago demonstrated to me the arbitrary and unjustified power of the state. It has taken me awhile to follow those revelations to their logical conclusion, but I've recently become convinced that government in itself is an evil concept which gives one group of people power over, and the right to use force against, others. I've listened to the well-reasoned arguments, and have become a Voluntaryist (Anarchist) who believes society would function much more fairly, peacefully, and efficiently without any government at all.
In the meantime, while we deal with the reality of an omnipotent state that threatens the rights of parents and children, I encourage other parents to not only be careful in selecting your child's pediatrician, but be aware of the attitudes of any pediatricians who may share a practice with him or her, since their actions can also have grave repercussions on your family's well-being.
Ellen Baker via Facebook
So sorry and sad….
Tracy Fite via Facebook
This is APPALLING! When does the parent get to decide what is best for their own child!? I would have done the same thing as this momma would have. It will soon be to a point where parents will be to scared to take their children to a doctor when they have the fear of the child being taken from them.
Tonya Scarborough via Facebook
Dr.s and nurses are just paid workers. We are the decision makers when it comes to our health and that of our children. We all need to start demanding that health professionals step back in their place, every time that we even just go in for a Dr.'s visit. And vote for lawmakers who will uphold our rights rather than entitlement programs. They're treating us like little babies and most people let them.
Mitzi Wilkinson Champion via Facebook
Babies don't belong to their parents…they belong to the community…or so I've heard….
Hospitals are God awful! I went in with pain at my chest and upper back/shoulder. A high fever, and flu like symptoms. They told me that it was a pulmonary embolism and demanded I do a test that would prevent me from breastfeeding my newborn baby for 48 hours. I declined and asked if there was anything else it could be and they said no. I was forced to sign AMA. I returned 12 hours later, I had Mastitis. Idiots.
Parents have the right to make informed medical decisions. Not do whatever doctors say they have to.
Please, someone start a petition. Return this baby back to his momma!
Ava Philippus via Facebook
Petty bureaucrats who believe they know all the answers…supplanting parental rights. There are many examples of this, from forced treatments to having the child removed, except, of course, when the child really should be removed, and isn't!
Sherry Black via Facebook
I have been a foster parent for 17 years. I realize there's two sides to every story, but this seems crazy to me.
Tonya Scarborough via Facebook
Obamacare lets the gov. stick it's grubby hand into the pie, just the first step towards gov. run. Same thing, no need to mince words. Any gov. that endorses entitlement programs is no friend to the people – they just want to be able to take our money. It's called legal theft. The problem is, we will all have to suffer before it gets bad enough for foolish people to demand their rights back.
Ruhi Deabreu via Facebook
Wow is all I can say. I'm glad my docs tell me to get second opinions. I feel so bad for them. Pls send my condolences
Justin Richins via Facebook
Fu-k this government & modern medical BS
Natacha Dority via Facebook
"Land of the free", eh? Hmm. Indeed.
Something similar could have happened to my niece. Born at a birth center she was transferred to a pediatric hospital for a couple hours of oxygen that she didn't even need. My brother tried to leave with her because they were uninsured and baby was 100% ok, clear chest x-ray etc and they said yes you have the right to leave but we will call CPS on you if you try to leave before her safe window of 24 hours after birth. They also tried to push all the "standard" newborn procedures. They made her brand new parents feel like crap for trying to stay out of the hospital in the first place.
Cherri Vondervellen via Facebook
how awful
Amber Russell via Facebook
Funny how the opinion of the second doctor supporting them was ignored by CPS..
Cyndi Martinek Phillips via Facebook
Really? I see 25 uninformed people have liked your post which isn't even true. There is no government run healthcare. Obama's plan forced private insurance to treat us better. It's a good thing!
Anna Paletti Walker via Facebook
I really don't like the last line… Nurses are often a patients biggest advocate and voice. As a labor and delivery nurse, I have advocated for my pts rights countless times saving them from needless interventions, c/s, and allowed/supported them in the birth experience they deserve. I'm sure nurses in other areas often give their pts the same support and care.
Totally agree, parents DO need to take their children to the hospital when they are concerned. As a midwife in Australia we often come across parents who don't want Hep C Vac, it has never occurred to me to call DOCS, actually i'm pretty sure my midwife in charge/employer would kick my ass if I did! Only in America!
Kim Morrison Miller via Facebook
I really hope something is missing from this story. Otherwise I'm so scared for my children's future!
Narlie Charlie via Facebook
That is messed up!
Amber Russell via Facebook
Those same doctors would still blame the parents if their child died in that hospital, saying they were "fully informed" and had "choices…."
Thank you for posting this. When my then 18-month old daughter was badly mauled by a dog last year, we were rushed to the nearest local hospital to have her wounds assessed. After over an hour of waiting in a crowded ER with facial wounds that required immediate and expert care, my husband used his knowledge from his work as an EMT to suggest that we "AMA." AGAINST MEDICAL AUTHORITY. Essentially this meant that we signed a form saying we refused their medical "care" and did not hold them responsible for the consequences. We were then legally free to leave.
Doctors have a maze of confusing language they lead patients through – all of which is determined more by legalities than human need, unfortunately. It's a broken system, but we need it for urgent care. We were fortunate enough to have doctors at the first hospital who at least did verbal gymnastics with us and looked us in the eye saying "I cannot say yes or no to that" but nudging us subtly to go to a hospital that could provide more specific care (in this case, pediatric plastic surgery).
Please pass the word about your right to AMA when you want to get a second opinion.
I would also recommend doing background research to find a hospital in your area JUST IN CASE you need it that you DO trust. Ask other parents. Ask your local holistic pediatrician. We drive all the way across Los Angeles to a hospital that we TRUST when we need urgent medical care for our daughter (CHLA). When she had her surgery, we also refused extra doses of anesthesia. We were able to do this because we both are decently informed about holistic health and we followed our guts in the moment as parents.
Wishing the best for the parents in the article above. They should get a lawyer ASAP.
– Julie
Dawn Poff via Facebook
Unbelievable! How scary!
We have been avoiding going to the doctor for a few years now and I think we are healthier for it. I am trying to learn some herbal medicine, homeopathy, use of tinctures, essential oils, reflexology so we need them less and less. With Obamacare just around the corner I just think it's better to slip in under the radar and teach my children to do the same.
Us too. We haven't been to the doctor in over 2 years. The kids so totally behind on all their shots (they had immunizations before I was aware of all the crap in them). Anyways, we also try to take care or things naturally and so far we have done well. It scares me that if I do take the kids in they are going to be like "hey, your kids are behind on their shots, that is neglect" and then call cps or something. Also, if any of kids get a childhood cancer or anything, we are in big trouble because there is a strong possibility that we will run if they try to force unneccesary chemo or something. That whole situation terrifies me,
Stephanie Sanders via Facebook
WOW just WOW!!
Tatyana Gorbachevskaya via Facebook
Sue CPS for neglect! Babies are safest with their mommies. Did they check her for alcohol, drugs? Was she abusive? No! She acted like a protective mommy should. CPS neglected that child by separating the baby from his mommy and causing all involved added stress. Sue & sue big. I hope this gets a lot of attention because we should not be afraid to take out children to the hospital. Please share.
Sherry Benge via Facebook
Apalling..and foster care is not a place for any child as many of those caregivers are abusive and NOT loving! They're being made an example of – PLUS it's california and they have ALL kinds of crazy anti-choice/anti-health control laws – It's a FELONY offense for a Dr. to tell a patient about alternative cancer care….& water rights limitations that exist nowhere else.
Lizz N David Lomax via Facebook
Shannon Doll via Facebook
The just did the same thing here in Minnesota and the family is now under court ordered supervised visits via Skype so that medical personnel can witness the administration of medications.
Tara Smith
I agree with the last statement, be careful when u step your foot in the hospital. Experienced something similar where I took my daughter to the ER for a possible broken arm. They looked at me like an abuser from the minute I walked in. I felt uncomfortable. I should not worry about taking my kids in for care. That is the first problem. Then after xrays come to find out it was an old fracture, I had no clue because she NEVER complained about the arm. She was not even two years old. 2 AM CPS shows up. One of the worst experiences of my life. They never took her away but the questions, pictures, and being requested to take her to a hospital for full skeletal xray to rule out other fractures was so traumatic. I have never or would never be abusive, I kiss them and hug them more than anything and to have people for one second who dont even know me think that just killed me. Anyway of course all was fine and we got sent home and case dropped but it has scared my family to no end to even let the kids be kids and run or do anything in fear of ever going to the ER again. When I got a comment card in the mail from the ER I noted, not all parents abuse! Not all broken bones are abuse! Im pretty sure she it from our new dogs who had jumped on her to say hello in the back patio that was all concrete and she put her arms up to protect herself. I cannot think of any other incident where it could have happened. So yes, they did traumatize the family and when I walked around with her in a cast it made me feel like people would think that about her all b/c of what they put into my head. It messed with my head I wouldnt wish that experience on my worst enemy! Beware next time u go to ER!
Pamela Schulze via Facebook
This is just frightening. Our systems meant to protect children and families are broken.
Nathan Sukorokoff via Facebook
Hospitals r in the business to make money. Bad business to lose patients to another hospital.
Waiting lists for specialty work are sometimes up to two years. But if you go out of country for let's say a Catscan and bring your X-ray back the same week from fully qualified hospital. The doctors will not accept it. They make a lot of money on tech work.
Lindsey Clair
Wow, ridiculous! Lord, protect our children and our country. We live in scary and uncertain times that is for sure……=(
Teresa White via Facebook
This is so hard to believe that this happens in our country. She had every right to remove him from a hospital that was totally unsafe
Elizabeth Kay
This is complete insanity. I'm from Sacramento and Sutter is one of the best hospitals in the area. I'm shocked and dismayed that the system is failing this family on such an extreme level.
Tim Thomas via Facebook
There may be more to the story than we are currently getting but I wouldn't be surprised if this is spot on. Funny how something like this could really come down to one or two medical professionals that felt snubbed and have started something that went way to far.
Hazel Correll via Facebook
BTW the government does not have the right to take your children. DO NOT BE A WILLING PARTICPANT
OMG! I had a similar situation with Kaiser Anaheim with my first son. I had a home birth with the second son because of the trauma Kaiser put me through. I am praying so hard for this family, I can't even imagine. Lord, please have mercy, please find a way to bring this child home to their family TODAY Father. I could not imagine not being with my baby, Lord you are the only one who can help!! Please Father. Please.
Katie Mess-And via Facebook
*MARRIAGE LICENSES were started to keep interracial couples from getting married. They are not necessary or required. It is just another form of control.
Watch "Overruled"- A shocking movie!
Parental Rights
Roseburg Beacon
How the feds are tracking your kid
Stop the Baby Snatchers
That is a LIE. Marriage licenses were started to ENCOURAGE interracial couples. The exact opposite of what you said. A union between two different species is not a marriage, no matter how many lawyers approve of it.
Hazel Correll via Facebook
Our government is out of control and until the people "DO" something about it will only get worse. They take these children away from good, loving parents and place them with perverts who abuse them sexually, mentally and do not care about them. There are people that make a living doing this.
Susan Neel Wiederhold via Facebook
Well, we used to be encouraged to get second opinions….
Xrene Xexixrxs via Facebook
there isn't any amount that can replace a child.. i really hope they get something for this.. at least enough to get out of this sick country and go live a happy life somewhere else
Savannah Pattan via Facebook
With Obamacare they can deny certain treatments to certain age groups- older people with cancer as an example. They will require doctors to report more "conflicts". They also taxed medical supplies & get to decide the cost on medical treatments. It's not just about providing insurance to everyone. It is mandated by the government. You might want to read up on it. No koolaid here.
You may be watching too much FOX news. The statements that you made above are false and have been circulating around the internet for a long time now and have been debunked for just as long. If you believe they are true, could you please post credible sources for your info?
Darlene, you are have been DRINKING the koolaid. Why don't you go READ all of the fine print of Obummercare? The statements that were made are NOT false, and you're going to feel like an idiot when you find out the truth.
Lovely list of credible sources. So of course, your ranting has been proved correct, and we should all now take you and your conspiracy theory seriously.
Heather Kinzer Olsson via Facebook
Agh! Nooooooo! Parental rights are being slowly taken away.
Jennifer Taggart Sanchez via Facebook
El Temeroso via Facebook
Time for you Yanks to bear arms
Dest Masters via Facebook
There is also this situation in another state. It's completely and totally out of hand: http://www.examiner.com/article/a-choice-of-life-or-death?CID=examiner_alerts_article
Katie Mess-And via Facebook
Watch "Overruled"- A shocking movie!
Parental Rights
Roseburg Beacon
How the feds are tracking your kid
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/how_the_feds_are_tracking_your_kid_xC6wecT8ZidCAzfqegB6hL http://hushmoney.org/
Marian Mitchell via Facebook
You are so right on this. That's why I delivered at a birth center. My Doula had a mom who had CPS called on her for refusing forceps and pitocin. Healthy baby delivered yet still has to deal with CPS
Deana Persson via Facebook
I'm reading more and more articles like this. God help us!
Megan Wray Canfield via Facebook
Don't you know, our children aren't ours, they belong to the community (government). *insert sarcastic tone*
We will soon be forced to do many inhumane things because our government is all knowing and all powerful… they are working day and night to make sure they have total control.
Katherine Ross-Keller via Facebook
Taking a baby out of a hospital against medical advice, which technically this is because the discharge wasn't complete, is considered neglect. A better thing to do would have been to arrange a transfer with the insurance company while the child was in care. I am a foster parent, I can guarantee you that there is much more to this story. It is actually pretty difficult to get kids removed from a home. Nobody celebrates when it has to happen, and it is not done arbitrarily.
You are sadly misinformed. Unless a child is in imminent danger of death, the parents have every right to leave and go seek a second opinion even if they have not been discharged. Hospital policy is not law. You do NOT need to be discharged from a hospital to leave and if you leave it is NOT considered neglect.
Foster parents only get their information from CPS. They are absolutely biased. And it is very EASY to get a child removed from the home – it happens all the time.
NO, you are wrong. CPS does anything they feel like in California, usually without fear of reprisal. There are several instances of that agency doing unlawful things to innocent people. And just remember that hospital workers are NOT your friend, they cause more people unnecessary grief that what you know or hear about. Just another arm of big brother.
As a "hospital worker" I am offended by your gross generalization. I care VERY MUCH about my patients! I think it is unfair to take issue with ALL medical professionals because you are upset about certain incidents.
I dont see how you could be offended by a comment that was meant for the health care professionals who DO NOT first cause no harm?? the comment was not a gross generalization but an opinion formed by a bad experience, and you dont like how that makes the field look. Just like the hospital who called CPS,because no doctor can be wrong they never ever make mistakes
I am wondering just how fast this hospital wanted to act on open heart surgery – did they even have enough time to complete a transfer to another hospital? It could have been done in the same say our gvt does things; last minute, in the middle of the night, on a Friday and without reading anything – just passing it. I would be RUNNING out of the hospital with my child!! The law suits can come later on THEIR incompetence, not suffering the loss of my child due to my own lack of action as a parent.
Martha Crow
I agree, I would love to hear " the rest of the story". CPS is in the business of protecting children. And, by the way, I wish people would quit blaming everything that goes wrong on Pres. Obama.He is doing the best he can with the mess he inherited.
øvømit "inherited" his current mess from the last 4-year administration – his own.
Anyone, parent ot patient, who leaves a hospital AMA automatically gets hotlined and gets a social services consult, at least in the 17 years I have been a nurse. Most AMA's can be averted with good communication and education, then proper arrangement of a transfer. I think there is more to this story than we are being told. I find it very hard to believe that a second opinion was discouraged.
the new younger doctors take offense to a patient retaining a second opinion. The same thing goes for the cps workers who think their way is best. doctors and cps are not lawmakers or law abiding citizens. They act like they have the power to end all and will cause pain to fix their ego.
"Anyone, parent ot patient, who leaves a hospital AMA automatically gets hotlined and gets a social services consult, at least in the 17 years I have been a nurse"
If True, I find this to be one of the most terrifying things I have ever heard. Deciding NOT to take advice automatically gets us "watched" by goverment officials who think we should change our minds???!!!!
Christine Nimitz via Facebook
This is utterly ridiculous, but let's not actually create potential situations of true neglect by frightening people into not taking their child to the hospital when necessary.
"but let's not actually create potential situations of true neglect by frightening people into not taking their child to the hospital when necessary." … THIS!! It isn't US who are creating fear of hospitals, it is the BEHAVIOR OF DOCTORS, HOSPITALS, CPS, AND POLICE that are creating fear of doctors, and hospitals (and schools, etc.) The homebirth movement is rising because of IATROGENIC harm to both mothers and babies FOR PROFIT. Also, the natural medicine arena is going into high gear because of the blatant LACK OF MEDICAL ETHICS of dr.s and their complete IGNORANCE of the systems of the human body. This is the age of information. People have access to medical journals online just as the dr.s do. They can read their prescription inserts in order to have FULL INFORMED CONSENT. That is something that they are supposed to have, but in the past were never allowed that luxury. Homeschool movement is on the rise as well, and I can only figure that the testing, drugging, and labeling of children has something to do with it. Anyways…
Katie Mess-And via Facebook
It's the UN.
Laura Campbell
I AM SO INFURIATED!!! Do you know if they got the baby back yet?
Faith Harron Boudreau via Facebook
If you mean Obamacare…it is not govt run. All the exchanges that will be opening in 2014 are private insurance. However, if we don't do something about a separation of influence from Big Biz from govt it won't matter because they are quickly becoming one and the same.
Well the problem is what will happen after the Affordable Care Act is fully implemented. All of these "exchanges" will not result in cost savings and better healthcare. And when the system totally breaks down the federal government will step in and "assume" control of all of it. At that point it will become a single payer system which is what they wanted all along.
They know the people don't really want a single payer system so in order to get what they want a system has been devised whereby it will ultimately fail and then the government has to step in to "save" the industry and voila! Then we have the same kind of "socialized" medicine that Europe has.
Sure it won't happen overnight. It will take some time. But that's where it ultimately ends.
Mike V.
Hopefully we WILL have a single payer system so we can join the rest of the civilized world and finally have decent health care.
Health care in the USA is a disgrace. Every other smart country in the world has implemented some sort of socialized medicine and they are better for it. People are healthier, live longer and don't go bankrupt from getting sick.
Get a clue.
You need to do a little more research. Your comments aren't entirely true. It all depends upon the healthcare system. There are quite a few countries where socialized medicine doesn't work.
The US does have a single payor system. It is called Medicaid. Medicaid only excludes rich people because they do not need handouts. After the taxes on rich people are increased enough to make them poor. Everyone in the US except the president and members of congress will be enrolled in Medicaid.
It doesn't cover anyone in the middle either….
And you need to go get some reality-based information on tax rates. Even at the highest rates ever for the wealthy, it was not enough to make them "poor". At the moment, they are paying a lower effective tax rate than you likely are.
Brandy L L Byrd via Facebook
Sounds like a great lawsuit.
Eeman Bint Hans via Facebook
How scary
AmyEddie Arroyo via Facebook
this is so messed up.
Drew Bettan via Facebook
This is going to be a wealthy family after the lawsuits.
And rightfully so. I hope they get the best lawyer there is & sue the crap out of Sutter AND Cps.
Yep, sue CPS who only act on information they're given.
Doesn't bother me, I don't pay taxes in USA.
Karl Hungus
When you sue the CPS (or the police, or any other government entity . . .) any award or settlement is taken directly from the taxpayers – never from the offending agency's budget. Which means there's really very little incentive for the offending agency not to commit whatever crime they committed in the first place.
No, the only way that anything will ever change is if these awards are paid directly out of whatever agencies' coffers – or better yet, out of the salaries, pensions, and assets of the individual(s) who committed the crime – in this case, the CPS and PD goons who kidnapped this child at gunpoint. I'd prefer they'd have paid with their lives, or at least with stiff prison sentences, but I'll take what I can get.
Angela Zeigler Dominguez via Facebook
Are these doctors just so arrogant that if a parent disagrees with them, they call CPS!?!?! The doctors should be in trouble for making false accusations.
The first hospital obviously knew that they were actually going for a 2nd opinion too because the police showed up at the other hospital and not the home. Disgusting.
Amy Keller Culp via Facebook
Since when is getting a second opinion on HEART SURGERY a crime? This is heartbreaking and terrifying.
Laura Lee Lotto via Facebook
No silly… that's only in story books!
Kathleen Betz via Facebook
Because those that run the establishments want your money, if they can't get it one way, they will get it another!
Tim Ryan via Facebook
How horrifying, I would kill someone who took my babies away!
Tijana OCeallaigh via Facebook
Karla Wiersma via Facebook
Welcome to the nanny state, where everybody else knows best. I see it only getting worse.
Kristyn Vanderleest via Facebook
This is ridiculous! Those poor parents!! And the other parents for questioning the safety of a vaccine?? I have 2 children who both had horrible vaccine reactions! Finally got my son boostered at 6….3 months later diagnosed with leukemia….is there a link?? Nobody will tell me….this makes me angry! Our children, our choice!
Right, but any parent who actually does real research and knows exactly what chemicals and toxins are in vaccines are the bad ones? Some parents don't like injecting their kids with aborted fetal tissue, thimerosal (linked to autism) led, monkey kidneys and the list goes on. And with a little research parents would see that 83% of all whooping cough cases are in fully up to date vaccinated kids NOT unvaccinated! Also that the vaccine insert list Auto immune, sids, autism & death as a side effect. When the government controls our heath care, you cannot expect that they are going to have your best interest at hand, Its a multi billion dollar industry. If vaccines work why do so many still get what they were vaccinated against? And why is it that un vaxed kids are normally healthier then vaxed kids? My own doctor wont even vax her kids because she know's whats in them. I am sorry for your son prayers are with you <3 all we can do is educate people it's their choice to listen. The best line yet I have heard was is in an article where one parent said they didn't want their kids around un vaccinated kids. And they reply….. Why, if your vaccines work, you should have nothing to worry about! The question is…. Do they???? Why are so many vaccinaed kids getting the diseases?
When this is all said and done and the parents are victors, I do hope they go after the hospital for negligence. Having a nurse tell me that she doesn't even know why she is giving medication is wrong and the Doctor wanting to perform an operations on the child without further testing is also wrong. They need to be severely reprimanded, the nurse needs to be fired if she doesn't even know why she is giving meds, CPS, and the Police also need to be reprimanded for their actions. Once another Doctor assured that the child was safe to go home, that should have been the end of it. Parents also need to be given a great deal of money for the heartache, headache, loss of wages, pain and suffering.
That being said, what happened to this couple is appalling.
I do wonder whether they understood everything they were told, though. Their grasp of English seems very basic.
Oh for goodness sakes, none of that crap has proven to be true and you know it. Take your tin foil hat off and quit reading crap on conspiracy theory sites. Shots do not cause autism. Period. They do not contain fetal tissue and never have. Tissue grown in a petri dish from fetal cells is many MANY decades old and has no relation to being an actual baby any more than cutting off a piece of your thumb would make a baby.
As for the whooping cough statistics, no, statistically it happens to kids who are only partially through their boosters not done.
You don't know diddly crap about medicine and from the what you say, neither does your doctor. Why do vac'ed kids still get sick? Because SOME times the vac doesn't take. This does NOT mean it's a great idea to go back to the days when no one was. Do you know what polio looks like? Do you know how many babies DIED from it? When your kids get deathly ill, I hope they survive but keep them the hell away from MY kids lady, I don't want your walking cesspools anywhere NEAR my children.
Mindy, thank you. GERT, keep drinking the koolaid!
Lauran Clark Robinson via Facebook
This is appalling!
Sarah Catherine Sleister via Facebook
this happened to me, except they didnt take our son, we wrre just basically keep in tge hospital against our will bc they wanted to keep our son for observation. i was on the phone with my parents, and lawyers.. we had to stay or have our son taken away. we had cops escort my husband out bc he was being loud and mean, understandably so. it was a horrible night that i will always have in my head. i feel for these parents! this should not happen to parents that just want the best for thier child.
Christa Caroline via Facebook
EVen the newscasters at the end are furious and said CPS doesn't have a good trak record and are running for cover.
El Banks via Facebook
Where is this government run healthcare you speak of?
dan m
its called Obamacare idiot
You mean, the decision Democrats made to adopt the 1994 GOP healthcare proposal to require everyone to buy private insurance? Government mandated isn't government run.
Mike V.
It's not government run, you lunatic.
Did you even graduate from the 6th grade?
Lisa Cutrell via Facebook
It isn't government run. It strictly allows for insurance for all. I preferred a private/public option.
Amber Russell via Facebook
That's what kills me, Bob. Parents can have multiple children die from preventable, fairly minor diseases if it's because of religion (the exceptional part of the story is that they're being prosecuted.) Parents that research treatments are getting screwed over.
AMEN!! Amen, Amber!!
Amber, it's not really exceptional that they are being prosecuted. There is a faith healing church/cult where I live and they are always in the news and the local D.A. hits them hard. Maybe not prosecuting in an East Coast thing, because in the Pacific Northwest these kinds of people end up in jail.
Joann-uh M Roberts via Facebook
Didn't you know that your children are not yours?! They belong to the "community" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjczwQOnMqg Thank you government. Police/Nanny state much?
You beat me to it.
then let the community pay for the bi1ls.
Yes, people need to be warned that when you apply for a marriage license, the state has the "rights" to any fruits born to that union. YOUR KIDS. I had heard several years ago that there is a movement to find another way to form a union, whether you want to call it a "marriage" or whatever, and it will help protect you and your family from this nightmare to some extent. This is past horrifying and I hope they sue and win big!
I have heard about this as well, but it confuses me? Cps removes children all the time from unwed parents? How does that work? I am sincerely asking thanks
It doesn't, it just makes them feel better and think they did something while accomplishing nothing.
Andi Rosin via Facebook
That s one scary story, these parents were NOT neglecting their baby, they were trying to do what was best for him. Why dont parents have the right to decide what is best for their children anymore?
Paula McKenna via Facebook
Isn't America where people can make their own decisions?
No. No it is not.
uh…. no…. do people still believe that? wow.
Ha. Yeah right. Since when? Never. This is so disturbing. I have no hope for humanity after reading an article like this.
Apparently not anymore…smfh
Donna Roberts Walker via Facebook
SCARY for every family!!! I hate big government!
Brian McLeod via Facebook
That is just retarded.
Emily Huntley via Facebook
My heart is breaking for these people!!!!!!
Bob Farnham via Facebook
Not an easy issue
"Forgoing medical help, Philly couple stands by as second child dies"
There is a difference between medical neglect and a second opinion.
These are two entirely different situations tho. The parents in the link you quoted didn't actually seek medical help. They turned to prayer only. Not saying turning to prayer is bad, but turning to prayer and neglecting medical help when needed is NOT advantageous. The parents in the above story were seeking medical attention for their son, in fact, they left one hospital…who's workers screwed up with the treatment of their son, and then after their screw up they wanted to open the baby up and do heart surgery, I would be running scared too!! For the safety of my child, I would run as fast and as far away from that hospital as I possibly could! They did NOT forsake medical attention for their child, they simply went to another hospital to get a second opinion. Getting a second opinion is not illegal nor child abuse. Allowing your child to be hacked on by a doctor who can't make his mind up as to whether the child needs heart surgery or whether he's fine (one minutes he says the baby needs heart surgery, then the next minute he says he's not concerned for the baby's well being) would in fact be detrimental to the child and life threatening and imo, child abuse. This situtaion is sad, disgusting and appalling in many ways.
Yeah but this couple was actually getting medical help for their child. The doctor proved he was incompetent and they took their child elsewhere thinking he would get better care. Then the doctor decided to be a jerk and got revenge. Doctors like this need to be stripped of their licences. They are not practicing medicine to help people they are practicing it to make money. I would hate to imagine what would have happened to me when I had a stroke and the first hospital said I had the flu, so my mom took me to another hospital. If they had called CPS and wasted time like this I would either be dead, or a vegetable. As long as the parents are actively seeking help for their child the cops and cps shouldn't be allowed to stick their noses in.
The baby in this story was taken to another hospital. Not taken home, but t another hospital where the doctors found him to be healthy and discharged him.
That issue has NOTHING to do with this case. What happened to this couples is outrageous and appalling.
When the last line of this 'article' is "Think long and hard before taking your children to the hospital my friends. Once you go through that door, the medical decisions about your child are no longer within your control." I think Bob's link is very relevant to the issue. This isn't black and white. If you think the couple in Bob's article should have been forced to take their child to the hospital (which I personally do), then that is forcing medical decisions on their child outside of their control. Furthermore, I think the last line advising people not to take their children to the hospital is ridiculous, and horrible advice.
AGREED. I'm not sure what the takeaway lesson should be from this article, but "don't seek medical care for your child" surely shouldn't be it, right?
This couple seem to have been very responsible. Sutter seemed irresponsible and dangerous, and they took their baby to another hospital, where the doctor told them their baby was safe to go home. They did not just take the baby home without a second opinion. Quite the opposite of the parents in Philly.
Totally different. These parents left one hospital and went straight to another for a second opinion. That doctor said all was fine at this time. In the case you link to the parents didn't seek any medical help for their child. If they would have sought help the child would have been fine or likely CPS could have stepped in if the child was dying and they tried to deny care. The Philly parents should not have been able to keep their child after the first died and they should have been jailed rather than just receiving probation. I am all for questioning and researching medical intervention but their children suffered at length while parents watched and let them die. I would not compare that story to this one.
These parents din't forgo medical help, they went to another hospital to get a second opinion because the first hospital obviously didn't know what they were doing.
And if you noticed, their baby is back at the hospital that screwed up in the first place.
Robert Lount
Those parents were totally in the clear. Hey Bob Farnham why don't you read TFA before posting via FB. Egregious government over reach and pissy doctors. Nurse doesn't know why shes giving the kid antibiotics… And now the kid is in protective custody at the place that wanted to do heart surgery… And the cops went ahead and enforced it.
Marion Ross Morton via Facebook
I think every mommy blogger should get this story out there, because this is WRONG.
Delicia Beaty via Facebook
So sad and scary!!!!
Shari Morgan via Facebook
WOW – you are kidding me!!!
Savannah Pattan via Facebook
I think it's only going to get worse with government run health care.
Oh yes, big time. It's frightening.
Luna (@Heading_West)
You're wrong. I live in Canada. It's not worse here. And it's not government run. It's government paid. BIG difference.
Hospitals here don't care if you check out to go elsewhere, because it doesn't cost them anything.
He who has the gold makes the rules, Luna. It is all but government run healthcare. Which is fine of you are not old, unhealthy and free of costly or rare diseases. And don't value convenience.
It is government funded and, of course, government run. The care is what any American would call substandard. I have a close friend in Canada with back problems, who cannot work, and who has been waiting on a list to see an orthopedist — waiting for two years. I have another close friend, same village, who has had heart surgery and who has nearly died a couple of times while waiting for treatment. The average wait time on the bypass surgery list is 18 months; that statistic comes from the health service itself. There aren't many CAT scan machines; a clinic near where we live in Rhode Island has, by far, more diagnostic medical equipment than does the whole province of Nova Scotia outside of Halifax, and that's just in one small complex of buildings. People will point to the longevity statistics, but that won't do; you have to compare like with like — say, people who live in Saskatchewan with people who live in North Dakota, or people who live in or near Vancouver with people who live in or near Seattle. I'd love to take my family to Canada and retire there, but the health system will keep me in the US.
Yep! In seattle we have a steady stream of Canadians from the Vancouver area not willing to wait the 18 months for bypass surgery because they know too many people who have died waiting for their turn.
Try not being able to get insurance at all. It is the ultimate waiting list.
I also know Canadians and I have yet to hear one say they want to trash their system and switch over to ours. First off, ours isn't even a system, it's complete chaos and secondly, they usually say the opposite. That they think our system is crazy and they're proud of their own.
Luna is right. I'm an American living in Canada. The health care here is set up COMPLETELY different then what is currently being set up in the States.
Ditto. We're Canadian and living in the USA – and what is being set up in the USA is vastly different indeed! It is a rare occurrence that a Cdn family, due to the cost of treatment for a serious illness, will find themselves in bankruptcy court while it is quite common here in the USA!
Gee, tell me how convenient American health care is when 60% of bankruptcy filings are related to medical costs. For-profit medicine is a nightmare. You've clearly never had any kind of health scare that your insurance arbitrarily required a certain number of unnecessary or redundant appointments before treatment to squeeze more money from a patient or been on a waiting list for specialty care.
For profit healthcare? All enterprises run on "profit". The problems and expense in healthcare are due to government intervention from start to finish. If you think we have a free market in medicine you are solely misinformed.
You are all so brainwashed over healthcare it is embarrasing. Profit and healthcare should never be used in the same context. healthcare should be a human right. But god forbid your 'freedom' be compromised (just a catchphrase at this point in the US) because ensuring healthcare equal for all will surely lead to communism or Hitler or similar. I will take my higher taxes and half hour wait at the walkin clinic any day. shamefull.
"healthcare should be a human right. But god forbid your "freedom" be compromised….." Freedom is a "catchphrase"? Really Michelle? Your list of "rights" ARE infringing on my rights. What about your right to take care of yourself? Where is my right to not have to pay for you to feed yourself doughnuts
and diet coke, then wonder why your diabetic and have to get a foot or toe amputated? You don't take care of yourself so I should have to pay more in taxes
and "freedom" (regulation takes away my freedom, fact not catchphrase).
Furthermore demonizing insurance companies and doctors will only guarantee
less qualified people enter the field. Is that what you want? Healthcare is so expensive because government controls too much of it.
Look for example at insuring your car. You can huge amounts of coverage for relatively little money. It can cover uninsured, underinsured, property, etc….even cover people with "pre-existing conditions", i.e., DUI, accidents etc… The reason is we don't have all the government red tape. There are only a handful of insurance companies compared to the amount of car insurance companies. There is more competition, prices are driven down.
John: You just described the current private insurance system we have; you seem confused, I suggest turning off the Radio
Yes, the system where government incentivized third party pay, government regulation, monopoly and mandates have created a death spiral. Full socialization is not the answer.
Nope, we have medicare for everyone here in Australia too and we don't have that problem either. The worst that happens here is that if your child isn't immunised the government won't pay any of your daycare/kindergarten costs (does your government do that anyway? I'm not sure) and you don't get the immunistion bonus payment for having all of their needles.
If you do have more of these problems with your new system then the fault lies with your government, not the system. It has been proven around the world that the system works, just like gun control. America is the one constantly insisting that they will be 'different' somehow.
"It has been proven around the world that the system works, just like gun control. America is the one constantly insisting that they will be 'different' somehow."
I think you need to educate yourself before you advocate for something.
iN america we ARE different. Our founders conducted this experiment in freedom NEVER done before in the entire history of the world. AND IT WORKED. YEs we are different Jessica. At least we used to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyS3CEIbpJo (VIDEO OF your "successful" gun control)
Yeah Marissa,
You guys ARE different. Your children are taking guns into schools, school children are being murdered by psychos with assault weapons, looneys are bombing you all over (domestic and international terrorists), the poorest people in your country are children, your economy is in the crapper because a handful of people control all of the wealth, companies of yours like Bank of America get away with paying little to NO taxes and yet your country is under austerity measures, you have no medicare or social safety net for everyone, people go bankrupt or lose their homes because of unpaid medical bills. 'Yeah, come to America – we're so fucking different and special. Every innocent massacre victim is a win for freedom!' Especially the children – they make your 'freedom' taste all the sweeter I'll bet.
You make me sick defending yourself like that.
Wanna know the real effects of gun control? Ask one of your own who is actually educated about it, you hypocrite.
Mike V.
If the US medical system is so awesome, why is everything about it worse than every single western nation and quite a few third world countries?
People need to start waking up and stop listening to idiots on Fox News who tell them that the health care in the USA is "the best in the world" when it most certainly is NOT.
Another AMEN!
I have plenty of experience in both health care systems, as a Canadian living in the US for the last 8 years, I can tell you I'd take social health insurance any day of the week over this privatized crap.
Can you say the same? Do you have experience in both? Or are you just guessing about one (based on what other people with vested interests tell you?)
Reading comprehension is not you strong suit, is it? If government pays as they do in Medicare they very much run the system, that was the point. Being the largest payer Medicare has introduced a huge amount of distortion and unnecessary expense in our system.
We don't have a free market in healthcare, the closest thing to it is cosmetic surgery and LASIK, where quality goes up and cost go down. That's the direction we should have gone.
I had government-run healthcare in the United States military and the only ones they tried to control were the active duty servicemembers, and can you guess why they might do that? As far as dependents and retirees, we could make our own choices.
You want an easy government that you don't want to have to monitor or do anything about. That's all it is. If you were a real citizen and really had civic consciousness then you'd know you're supposed to stay on top of what they're doing and hold them to account. Then you wouldn't have to be scared of single-payer. We're supposed to be the government here, not some mysterious Other.
And are you similarly afraid about police and firefighters? Those are government-run. Or how about the military that I just mentioned? That's government-run. You know, I'm more scared of cops and military than I am of a doctor.
But you aren't the customers, though. 😛 I mean, I didn't want the antibiotic a public doctor prescribed me, cause I'd read it wasn't safe. He wouldn't give me anything else. So it was a total waste of time to wait to see him for hours. If I were paying to see him, I would ask for my money back, you know?
I ended up calling my private doctor in the states, and she gave something that cleared up my infection without even having to use an antibiotic. So yeah, I'd much rather be the customer, than like, whatever we are under Canadian medical system.
Also, all the people in my town who are on welfare, go to the doctor for pointless reasons, because they don't understand that a doctor can't really do anything for common, non-life threatening ailments. So they waste a lot of resources and time that way, also. If they had to pay for it, they wouldn't abuse the system that way.
Yeah, healthcare is so great there. BS. That's why patients who can't find beds there have had to come HERE in the past to give birth to their children. That happened during the last decade. Two high risk pregnancy women both bearing quadruplets could not find a bed in a hospital in ALL OF CANADA, and they had to go to Benfis Hospital in Great Falls MT to deliver their babies, or all 10 people might possibly have died. SCARY.
Monique Otañez Reyes Sutton via Facebook
And meanwhile children are being abused and killed by their so called parents and CPS and the law is nowhere to be found……I feel for these parents. We were is a similar situation (visit from CPS, from our state) all because we listened to our pediatrician versus a small town hospital dr)all ended well in our case…… I pray they get their baby back and they can put this experience behind them
Unbelievable. I was also kicked out of a cancer clinic for getting a second opinion and having my surgery else where. When I got home they sent me a letter stating I could not longer be treated there due to "lack of trust and abusive behavior."
Debbie L.
I see what everyone is saying and I also have read the article thoroughly. I work in Community Mental Health Services and I have to admit that yes, this happens at times, and I also agree that there are many children out there that are abused and nothing is ever done about it….but as a parent…and since I do see so many cases of child abuse that "appear" to be handled incorrectly, I do think that the majority of the people that work for CPS do the best they can, but as with any area in Human Services and Medical Service, there are those that make poor decisions….but as with our agency, we make our judgement, not in favor of the parent most times, but in the interest of the child's health and welfare. And unfortunately, the parent feels that they are being "screwed" and sometimes they are, but whenever I make a decision to call CPS, it is done totally because I feel that all the issues point to neglect, abuse or exploitation and the parent or legal guardian are held responsible. And this is one time that being "guilty before proven innocent" is how the system works, because if something is not done and then the child is abused or neglected and they get hurt severly or they die, then I would be the one responsible for letting it happen. So please think about the people that do actually report these types of incidents if you have never been in the situation where you didn't stand up and do something and someone else ended up suffering moreso for your not stepping in and trying to do the right thing.
So many just "bitch" about it and never take the time to research the situations or even ask anyone about the process or consider that not everything you hear is the truth, especially in the media, whether in written form or reported on the internet or news. Please think about your own children and if something was happening to them that was putting them in danger. Sure I would be pissed if I didn't do anything wrong, but would also be grateful for someone caring enough to try and do what was best for my child. Keep in mind that if someone is abusing their child, sometimes they fight just as hard if not harder to declare their innocence as they do when they are innocent!
Hmm… Typically when a child is taken by CPS they are put in the care of others… Those others have a very long rap sheet of abusing, etc… worse than what they were taken from… CPS does more harm than good….
Where do you get your info? I've been a foster parent since 2005 and don't have a rap sheet of child abuse. I do realize there are bad foster parents out there but pleae do not group us all together. I'm not saying CPS had any right to take that child but the children I have had in my home needed to be removed for their safety.
@DASHA who told you that these children needed to be removed for "their safety" a Social Wworker cuz they lie just to take a child so they can fill there quota so they can get goverment funding.
Honestly I seen ur comment and u stood out to me and I must say my children were taken because of a misunderstandings and were placed with my mother who was a severe alcoholic. After I kept on them about it and she came to one of the court hearings drunk they took them from her and placed them in a fosyet home w a old hag that was physically and mentally abusing em.so yea not all foster parents are like that because that would just be shallow to say that but a majority are and they only do it for a check. Cps and like I s
aid a majority of foster parents are rotten and I would love to see the day when they get theirs
when all of them get theirs and thats all I have to say abouy that
Chris G
DaSha, God bless you. My wife & I only lasted about 3 years as foster parents because we couldn't stand the bureaucracy any more. Foster parents are screened thoroughly and frequently, and while a few may slip through, most of us are nothing like the TV image most people have. That said, I work in critical care areas of hospitals and this case is ridiculous. The police and CPS had no probable cause to do what they did. Not just removing the child, but doing so without a warrant or even the most basic investigation.
Yes I agree with Gary, Im also familiar what happens to kids in the hands of foster homes. Sexual Abuse and violence. Dirty filthy homes that smell like vomit. Im sure this isnt always the case and Im sure some foster parents arent tweakers doing it for the money and sexual abuse, but this is quite common. Babys also get abused.
And don't forget the amount of antidepressants they put them on!
Bill Goode
Yes, the antidepressants are the worst of it. The 5-month-old baby could come out of CPS psychotic. CPS could do any number of things to the baby. Yes, the parents can expect their baby is being drugged with antidepressants. It's criminal.
Okay people…first of all, don't put yourself in the position to get your children taken in the first place. We have no idea what was even wrong with this baby that prompted the doctor to want to do heart surgery. We are all making comments with only half of the information. If the baby was in grave danger, the parents should not have been able to take the baby, but at this point we don't know all of the circumstances.
Second, these people obviously didn't think clearly and logically through this either. It states they basically took the baby without proper discharge. We all know that there are discharge steps that need to be followed. That's for record keeping and also safety for the child.
Third, most of the time when children are taken from their homes, the parents are guilty to some degree. Lets face it folks, some parents think its proper to discipline children with a 2×4 or a fist. Or how about feeding hot sauce to your child for a punishment. For those of you that don't get it…that's not okay and you should be on the list of parents that lost their children, but if you ask those parents if they abuse their children, what do you think their answer will be?
You are comparing leaving the hospital without the proper papers in order to go to another hospital to hitting a child with a 2×4?
That is just an outright lie. Tell us where you got your figures. From a pink unicorn during your last LSD trip?
If they STOP doing the best they can then maybe decent parents will not be castigated while social services gives help to those who don't know how to look after their kids.
I wholeheartedly agree that you shouldn't just accept the media's account of any story like this. I've been involved in a court case where the reporting that was done on it was so inaccurate I had to wonder if they weren't talking about a different case.
That said, I've also witnessed outright malicious and vindictive behavior from someone I know who works for CPS. She brags about it. I know that some really bad people get off on their power to ruin people's lives. If they don't feel "respected" enough, they will absolutely burn a family to the ground and laugh about it.
Iska Lux Herodias
"I've also witnessed outright malicious and vindictive behavior from someone I know who works for CPS. She brags about it. I know that some really bad people get off on their power to ruin people's lives. If they don't feel 'respected' enough, they will absolutely burn a family to the ground and laugh about it."
Well-put, Sean. I have observed many people in powerful positions exhibiting this behaviour. In fact, I cannot dismiss the impression that in the case described in this article, the original hospital's motivation is sheer vindictiveness. Someone wants to hurt the family that did not feel their infant was safe in that hospital's barbaric and bumbling "care".
@SEAN i so agree that happen to me.
You submission was throughtful and clearly indicates the tough decisions medical personnel must make. The child does show subtle clues which are at times challenging to decifer. Better safe than sorry – if you really care about your child!
Better safe than sorry?? when they are talking about HEART SURGERY…then yes…Better safe than sorry is getting a second opinion. Yet this hospital did not want to discharge the baby, so the parents took it into their own hands and left…not just going home and ignoring the trouble…that would've been negligent…no they went to another hospital.
After seeing the incompetence at the original hospital I wouldn't want them touching my child either.
Debbie L. You said you read the article thouroughly. Well, obviously you missed the obvious: They went from one hospitol to the other with the police showing up at Kaiser. Seeing the baby healthy and the doctor saying there is no problem with the parents taking the baby home, the police left. Why, then would they go to the parents home and "kidnap" the baby the next day? Wouldn't a second opinion over ride the first? Now.. Which doctor is more revelant? Which should the CPS follow? This is a very, very unusual and quite wrong action. I believe Sutter has a wrongful suit, CPS, Police are complicit in determining one doctor's opinion is more right or more wrong. Where did they get their opinion? Lawyers?
""She added, "We went from one hospital to another. We just wanted to be safe, that he is in good hands."
While at Kaiser Permanente, the police showed up at the request of Sutter. The police told the parents that staff at Sutter had told them that the child was in such a bad state that, as Anna put it, "they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."
After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left.""
The part about how the police left the hospital satisfied then out of the blue come back the next day to basically kidnap the child is what baffles me. Obviously the getting a second opinion part was resolved when the police left Kaiser satisfied that the safety of the child was not in jeopardy when the parent's sought a second opinion. That would've closed that particular complaint.
That leads me to believe something else was going on during that time between when the police left thinking it was resolved at Kaiser and when they showed up at the apartment the next day. Somehow in that 24 hours a complaint report must have been made to CPS of serious abuse (far beyond the issue that was already resolved) for that to happen. I'm wondering what that report was and was it real or fabricated by someone at Sutter feeling vindictive and being crazy? There is a lot more I want to hear that isn't being told about this story.
seriously, the amount of pre justification and back peddling going on in this comment is sickening.
Debbie L you are a tool wearing blinders and I think that clearly says it all…
It sounds as if CPS made a snap judgement based on hearsay. Granted the hospital made the claim, but hospitals can be wrong. A second opinion is the proper thing for the parents to do in the case of something as serious as the proposed surgery. Has anyone heard recently about the hospital administrator pushing unnecessary surgeries just to make more money? The parents appear to be justified in their actions and CPS is too quick to respond to allegations of neglect or abuse. This "NO TOLERANCE" crap that organizations are adopting is violating our human rights. The bleeding hearts, the soccer mom's, Ms. Obama, need to stop interfering in other people's affairs. Parents are legally, morally, and physically responsible for raising THEIR children and anyone coming between them better damn well be certain of their claims and allegations.
Pam Gintonio
This has got NOTHING to do with the President or his wife…..leave them out of this argument. This has EVERYTHING to do with the quality of medical care this child was or was not receiving at Sutter Hospital and the seemingly vindictive actions of that hospital and overreacting of the CPS. There may be more information not being told. I am from Ohio and worked in social services in different agencies for over 30 years. Our complaint was usually the opposite: children being left in or returned to what we thought were neglectful or abusive situations. I agree that parents ARE responsible for their children's care…..but, sadly, look at some of the outcomes that we have seen lately. There are parents out there who should NEVER be raising a child.
JE McManus
I am reposting this because it's lost in a sea of emotional comments.
This linked article from News 10 (Sacramento) states that, "Anna Nikolayev claimed CPS had taken her 5-month-old son Sammy after she and her husband removed him from the Sutter Memorial Hospital intensive care unit without a proper discharge AND BEFORE taking him to Kaiser Permanente for a second opinion."
It differs from what we are reading above, with a quote from the unnamed, attending doctor at Kaiser, indicating that the parents both visited Kaiser and were given the clean bill of health before CPS intervened. So which is it?
Did the parents REALLY go for the second opinion or were they PLANNING to at a later date? Also, WHY is the attending physician from Kaiser NOT NAMED anywhere. Is this just part of the parents' account of the story or did someone from Kaiser actually give a quote.
I really think more details are needed that go beyond the scope of a one sided account.
AND, Pam, what gives anyone that right to make that judgement call. People are from very different cultures and we are all mixing together. My comment on the President and his wife is inconsequential. The fact is, one person, Head of State or not, cannot make blanket policies, judgements, decisions for others based on their own personal beliefs and practices. I've seen and heard of too many human right violations by "goodie-two-shoes" organizations. The more policies put in place, the more our freedoms and liberties are being taken away. It's not my job, or anyone else's to tell my neighbors how to raise their family. The system is in place to aide, not to dictate how our lives should be lived,
@McManus I read this as a poorly constructed sentence where "and before" goes with "proper discharge."
Sofia Logan
Can you provide valid proof of your claim that the bleeding hearts, soccer mom's and Mrs. Obama have direct or sheer influence on how the hospital staff, CPS and the Sacramento police they should deal with the situation?
If you can't, which I am sure you can't, quit and save your crap for other people who will believe your delusion.
Rob MacGregor
What on earth are you babbling about Sofia?
In your zeal to retaliate for 1 sentence in Jeff's generally well crafted statement speaks to EXACTLY the kind of mentality that this story represents. Get off of your high horse, and to quote you "save your crap for other people who will believe your delusion"
If someone takes your child bc of some paper that didn't get signed, although a Dr said the child is fine in your care, and the police behave this way and force your compliance, you should be legally able to resist with lethal force. Just another example of the govt ripping up the constitution and raping the citizens into submission while robbing them. I hope these smug bastards are sent to hell for tearing apart families. Just sickening.
Stop the Baby Snatchers
Debbie, you are a delusional criminal who works with an criminal gang of thugs, murderers, kidnappers and rapists who use all manner of legalese to justify their rape and pillage of the American people. You can fool yourself into thinking you are a good person, but you are nothing but a paid thug for a dictatorship. Under no circumstances does any bureaucrat have the best interest of the child in mind. Bureaucrats and cops have the best interest of their pocket book and power-thrusting lust in mind. Thousands of children are sold by CPS and Juvenile detention centers to child sex rackets every year. Your "concern" and insincere propaganda helps contribute to that.
Pam Gintonio
Where the hell are you getting your information? Please provide some proof of these atrocious allegations. If you "know" this to be true, you should be contacting every media outlet you can think of to "uncover" the cover up. People who make these type of allegations and do nothing are just as guilty my friend.
The Goat
You come from the most corrupt state of the 50 (unless you are 52%(Obama) who said there are 57 states) AND you were part of the system so you were part of the gestapo. And yes we the citizen are losing our rights under this boob.
I have been a mandated reporter and I think the problem is precisely that in this system someone is "guilty until proven innocent." Why isn't there at least a hearing before a judge before you child can be taken from you?
The most horrifying thing in the world to me is for a child to be taken from his mother. Except of course in the most extreme cases of abuse, where the child's life is in danger. But this was so far from that situation as to be shocking abuse in itself. The most basic of freedoms in this country include being able to get a second opinion in a medical situation, or even choosing NOT to get medical treatment. Taking a child from its mother should be the most absolute last resort, and not something easily done.
You wouldn't feel so grateful if CPS was falsely accusing you of neglect or abuse, which is apparently the case here.
It is the right of any patient to receive quality care and accurate information pertaining to it. It is the right of the patient to seek a second opinion regarding any medical treatment. It is the right of the patient to seek a diagnosis and treatment at a hospital of his or her choosing. And if the patient is a child, it is the right of the parents to be informed and make those decisions on the patient's behalf. When one doctor at Sutter reports that a child is dying and needs heart surgery, and another doctor at Kaiser reports that the child is fine, both reports need to be considered. For the police to take sides in this rivalry between Sutter and Kaiser is unprofessional, and to take a patient anywhere against the patient's will or that of his or her parents is kidnapping.
A friend of mine was actually abused ONLY AFTER the call was made and CPS came to take her from her mother at the age of 5. A male employee in the system put his peeing part inside of her vag – he f—- sexually raped her! The seat of judgement is a hard seat to fill, which is probably why you didn't apply to be a judge in the court, but you would be like the "acting judge" in your position just without the formal title.
Anyway, if you REALLY CARED about the well-being of that child who you are SUPPOSEDLY calling the authorities for (but by your statement, you are more concerned about your own conscious), then you NEED to also be the one standing in place of now the absent parents – BY FORCE OF AUTHORITIES – and ENSURE NOT ONE SICK HUMAN DOES THE ABUSE YOU WERE SUSPICIOUS ABOUT.
There are child-predators who have STILL NOT BEEN CAUGHT YET – so background checks mean nothing – who are actually working in CPS, police stations and hospitals. Crooked people are everywhere! And, I'm sure you know this, right? So, let that be a reminder to you the next time you pick up the da– phone to phone in your "witnessing" concern. Don't forget, when you do that you could very well could be phoning in that call to the actual child-predator or by an insider working for them. This is nothing freaking new! So stop being so ignorant that the system is free of criminals and criminal-minded, more specially, child-predators! That's where some of them hide, because people like you exist who think they don't HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT.
Let me say this again, the next time you THINK about phoning in a situation where you THINK a child is being abused (in any shape, form, or fashion), you make sure you take into your conscious judgement that the "new" guardians (CPS, police, hospital, whoever) of that child could very well be the child predator and when you think of that and make the call yourself that YOU also make it a point to literally watch over that child 24-hours to ensure that child will not end up like my friend who was forcibly taken from her mother at the age of five only to be f—— sexually raped by a man in the system you put all your trust in to protect children from abuse. And, I know my friend is not the first case of child abuse happening within the system ONLY AFTER some self-conscious idiot made the call.
So, this stupid statement, "because if something is not done and then the child is abused or neglected and they get hurt severly or they die, then I WOULD BE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR LETTING IT HAPPEN" would prove itself true, because YES, YOU DID LET IT HAPPEN! YOU! All because you thought criminals didn't hide in plain sight and because you think the system (CPS, hospitals, police, whatever agency you call) is void of criminals or criminal-minded individuals out to get children you are supposedly trying to protect them from.
You need to get a grip on the real world and freaking quick – I'm talking about for the safety of ALL people! What I'd love to know is how many da– times do you call to check up (by visitation ONLY) on the welfare of that child whom you believed – according to this "evidence" – was being abused? Don't even try to make up excuses why you haven't. You made the call! So it became your responsibility, you were the "witness", the only "witness" who came forth to contact the authorities. Don't you care? I mean, we're talking about a child you feel is being abused. Oh, I see, your caring COMES TO THE END OF THE ROAD when the child is removed from the alleged abusers? ABUSERS ARE EVERYWHERE!
You very well could have put that child in more danger than you ever thought imaginable. Just like my friend at the age of 5. Where was her so-called "acting protector" then? Oh, she was out of the caller's hands once the authorities came to remove her? No, you (people like you) put her IN abusive hands!
You were the one who opened that door, but didn't "man" the door to ensure the right people would come through. Had you never opened that door or had you MANNED the door you opened…well, that's something we will never know, but we DO KNOW that YOUR ACTIONS put the abuse all into motion. And, yet you state, "…because if something is not done and then the child is abused or neglected and they get hurt severly or they die, then I would be the one responsible for letting it happen." You still are, now how's that for your conscious? It sucks for the child who was also played by your so-called sense of caring! Protection is a full-time job and if you are a parent, then you should definitely know that.
In the news, there's this woman pretending to be a nurse and cutting IVs, this isn't the first case of fraudulent hospital staff, let alone fake family members. As history has it, babies have been know to be kidnapped from hospitals, too, from people not even related to the baby. They end up using the baby to smuggle drugs into another country or raise the child as their own – it's all a form of abuse, and the list goes on.
I question Sutter's hospital so-called "protection and care"? I do hope this is not Sutter hospital's way of using this baby as a "science project" and playing the legal system to do so. The crookedness and child abuse in this world is out of control!
The point here is that they saw MISTAKES happening, in ONE hospital, and thusly took the child to ANOTHER hospital for TREATMENT.
And THAT is enough to have their child taken away from them? That is BULLshit.
Hospitals and the medical community have entirely TOO MUCH CONTROL and TOO MUCH say about things like this. This smacks of Hospital A being pissed off because they took their child to another place for treatment, and just wanting to get EVEN, and because they're a "HOSPITAL", they have CPS and the cops at their beck and call.
It's horseshit. Period. And it's WRONG.
Amy Paul, RN
Disagreeing with a doctor or a nurse does not constitute abuse. Wanting a second opinion does not constitute abuse. Wanting informed consent does not constitute abuse. Calling CPS because the parents don't agree with you is WRONG. If the child is being abused, yes, call CPS. But not agreeing with you, the doctor, or the hospital administrator does NOT equal abuse.
While I can empathize with your statement, in this case it doesn't hold water. The police went once, Documented they took the child to another hospital and invoked CPS regardless. this is wrong ! If they followed up like they should have, this wouldn't have happened.
They were blinded by self righteousness. Plain and simple.
We *are* thinking about our children. Children are more likely to be abused by foster parents and adoptive parents and stepparents than they are to be abused by their natural parents. True fact. My best friend is a social worker, used to work with troubled families, and she told me some of this.
If you are going to remove children from a home you had better make VERY SURE that they are in more danger from their parents NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERVENE WITH THE FAMILY than they would be in foster care. Too many so-called "foster parents" are in it for the money they get from the state and they could care less what happens to the kids. Oh yes, I know, some are good too. I don't need to hear that. People need to be hearing about the bad ones because it's not like the parents get any say as to where their kids wind up, and the state sure doesn't bother.
And have you ever noticed it's typically white kids taken for frivolous reasons, and children of color left in their abusive homes to rot? I sure have. There are exceptions on both sides but that is the general pattern I see.
Also, you know, this country has been deciding for years to take children away from parents who aren't 100 percent perfect. Do a Google search for Baby Scoop Era and read the horror stories. It's still happening but the infant adoption industry has gotten wily and make the mothers feel like it's all their idea. If you have ever considered adopting a newborn, you are buying into that horrific industry.
In the cases of both CPS removal and infant adoption, the vast majority of these families affected would be fine if they had help. They may need parenting classes, or decent housing, or help getting jobs, or help with daycare but if they HAD that help the children would be in no danger. In West Virginia and Florida they ran a study where they got at-risk families such help and the abuse and neglect rates plummeted in both states.
But the government pays social agencies bonuses if they place from foster care because we're supposed to "encourage adoption as an option." And it's the younger children who are more adoptable. So ask yourself whose interests are really being served here.
And before anyone starts screaming "socialism" because I said "social agency", bear in mind that evangelical Christians are driving a lot of this nightmare too. Raising a child in their faith from infancy is easier than converting an adult, and they want warm bodies for God's army. It's sick.
more times than not, its the CPS that are truly the worst offenders… not to mention speaking of "facts"… CPS has been caught before filling adoption quotas of exclusively wealthy by purposefully abducting children that fit a specific race, feature, etc. so that they can help the wealthy get a child they prefer… its down right criminal and i dont know a single child that has been in CPS' care that actually APPRECIATED the help…
I am sympathetic to this perspective however this happened because of a break down in communication either by the police or by CPS. These parents were cleared to go home, why didn't the CPS worker know that whey they came to the parent's house? Just because CPS errors on the side of safety doesn't mean they should get a get out jail free card for all of their screw ups. I have heard far to many horror stories at the hand of CPS. When are we going to demand that CPS stop screwing up??
In this case, I feel that part of the problem probably stemmed partly from the parents taking their child out if the first hospital without that child being properly released. It is possible that if they had attempted to seek for the child's release because they felt uncomfortable with the treatment the child was receiving, they either would have been denied (or whatever), or the hospital may have still felt this was a neglectful situation because they may have assumed the parents were opting for no treatment/ medical care for the child. Assumptions can be very dangerous if used against people, possibly as in this case here. They may have been doing the best they thought they were doing for the child, without knowing the true reason the parents had left the hospital with their child.
Then why aren't you going after the REAL cases of abuse and neglect? I see many every day. Tonight an 8-year-old child in Manteca is in a coma because his parents left him to roam the streets at 9:30 pm and he ended up getting hit by a car. CPS has been called on this family many times, and nothing happens.
That's funny, when my two oldest children got placed in foster care a number of years ago because my wife needed to be hospitalized (in part because our son was 2 months old and just out of the NICU) while I was deployed with the Army, their foster parents continually failed to use proper car seats; my infant son was placed in a forward-facing seat when he was maybe 8 months old and my 3-year-old son was in no car seat at all on some occasions. We complained after every visit about these and other safety violations, but NOTHING HAPPENED. Talk about breaking our hearts; we had nearly lost the infant once, at birth, and we certainly didn't want to lose them by someone else's negligence.
Fix the system and hire competent people, and THEN I will start believing anything that comes out of a bureaucrat's mouth, especially anyone involved with social services.
CPS are the abusers! They have power hungry communist liberals working for them. The police are criminals. We now live in a police state. All the people who work for mental health have more mental issues than the people they dominant over.
if some nurse don't know wny my kid takes medication that a doctor prescribed well being at a hospital or other medical mistakes i would have taken my child to another Hospital. Oh and CPS or the cops are dumb enough to take my Kids for taking them to get a 2nd opinion i have 4 family lawyers ready to take them on. the fact they can get away with this is insane I spent almost 5 years in foster care because some CPS worker wanted a Bonus to get new kids in foster CARE and YES They do get bonus for it.
I also know for a fact that many hospitals have social workers that can interview a parent or parents and take the advice of the doctors on top of that before they would consider CPS. This clearly was a hospital that wanted to make money of the parents and a Hospital with Incompetent staff.
Number One: Obviously these parents love their infant and want whats best for little Sammy. That's blatantly clear. Number Two: If the child was "fine, okay, and doing well." He wouldn't need Open Heart Surgery at only months old. Number Three: They say they were taking the child to another hospital, yet when they were tracked down, they were hanging out at home with the infant like he was any normal functioning newborn, which in case he is most certainly not. Number Four: There are proper ways to ensure the health of the child, while still transferring your infant to another hospital. Simply, sneaking out the backdoor with an infant who need immediate heart surgery and going home and living like nothing is wrong is not putting the needs of your child first. Burying your head in the sand, doesn't not make the illness goes away. The popular saying, "Only sick people take pills, so, if I don't take my pills, then, I'm not sick." does not apply here. This child will die without this surgery. Point and fact. Number Five: Why would every little part time nurse have to know why's he's getting the med's, and every little scrap of detail. They are just nurses they are not the doctor's. They are just there to administer, not to diagnose. If you don't trust your child's doctor, put in the necessary paperwork for proper transfer of the child's case to another hospital. If these parents think they are devastated now, how do they think they's feel if the child died, while hanging out at home, acting like all was well? Much worse. This child has a right to health care. If the child had died at home then everybody would be saying, "This is an outrage. Why are they allowed to get by with that?" Damned if you do, damned if your don't. Just because a child's outward appearance looks well, doesn't mean they are in fact… well. Looks can be deceiving. I pray this gets all sorted out, the child recover, lives a long healthy, happy life, and they can be a proper family again.
The police examination of he records and statement from the attending physician would indicate that there was no immediate or grave threat a day after AMA discharge.
A nurse should always KNOW what they are administering drug for, especially an antibiotic. If something isn't bacterial, antibiotics won't work, so you need to be monitoring smptoms. Symptoms of WHAT???? Exactly, you need to know. Additionally, if you aren't checking what you are treating, are you checking to make sure it;s the right patient? that there are no allergies to the meds you are giving? That you are giving the meds at the right time? That someone else hasn't already administered that dose?
Yermer: IT IS THE NURSES RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW WHY SOMEONE IS GETTING A MEDICATION! Secondly, the first time the police showed up was at another hospital, NOT at home, as you suggest. Thirdly, the second doctor stated that the baby was fine and ok to be released! Please refrain from commenting any further. You're making my head hurt.
Stop the Baby Snatchers
If the baby was being treated for the flu, antibiotics have no effect on the flu virus. Ergo, lawsuit.
The doctor at the other hospital said it was fine to take the baby home…. CPS, like cops, clearly get a rush from taking from people or making people suffer… this is a prime example… either that or they are not qualified to do their job…
They did not sneak out the back door and go hang out at home. They went to the second hospital, were seen and released from there. The doctor there said the baby was ok to leave. A heart murmur is not an automatic reason for surgery. And as a nurse, if I'm giving a med to a patient, esp a baby, I most certainly had better know what I am giving them!!
Yermer, how do you happen to know so much about this story? How do you know the nurse was part-time. How do you know the child will die without the open heart surgery? Are you a better doctor than the one at Kaiser Permanente? According to the article, they were not "just hanging out at home wtih the child." They went to a second hospital before going home and THAT doctor said the baby was fine and he had no fears for the baby being with his parents. That's when they went home. If the doc says the baby is fine, that should be the end of the story. The police were satisfied with the explanation and wenth home. It was only after CPS told their lies that the cops went back the next day.
In Michigan, CPS gets paid for pulling children out of the home. It depends too on who you know. There have been cases where the other parent or the mother's "boyfriend" abused the child, molested the child, threw the child against a wall or something that have died because CPS couldn't be bothered to investigate or "there wasn't enough evidence." That little 2 year old died because according to CPS there wasn't enough evidence to remove her from the home. She had been slapped and burned and hit with electric cords. CPS picks and chooses their cases. Rest assured that this family won't have to worry about anything again for the rest of their lives when the lawyer gets through with Sutter.
And it ALWAYS comes down to race. They ignore black kids being abused but so much as insinuate a white baby is abused and they snatch them right up…. I imagine they get kick backs for adopting them out. White babies are worth a LOT of money on the adoption market.
"The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents."
This was the second hospital they went to. That's why they were at home. The police came to the second hospital, saw the child was fine and being discharged and left. The next day at the parents' home was when all heck broke loose apparently.
This is a very sad situation for these parents. I have dealt a lot with CPS as my sister is the parent of 3 foster-adopted children. There is a lot messed up within the system. This is a CLEAR example of that.
You don't read very well, do you?
People like you are part of the problem. You'd be better suited for a job at Walmart.
That is insulting to people who work at Walmart.
The parents didn't just take him home and act like nothing happened, if you read the story they took him to another hospital where he was treated and released because he was healthy. Seeing as the first hospital was injecting him with antibiotics that he didn't need I sure as hell wouldn't want them to preform open heart surgery which turns out he didn't need either. Read the whole story then comment
Where does it state they were hanging out at home like nothing was wrong? I didn't see that stated here. I did see that the second hospital discharged the baby. And to take a baby right back to the scene of the initial neglect is ridiculous and asking for the worse to happen to a child. Most people in the decion-making process as it regards the nation's children are not qualified nor equipped to do so. A piece of paper from a college or licensing agency doesn't prove competence. Inspect many of their home lives and you'll also find what can be perceived as dysfunctionalism and neglect. This is one more example of systemic control of the people, their wombs and their children.
They left one hospital, went directly to another hospital for a second opinion. Second hospital saw nothing wrong with the child AND THEN they went home. I hope YOU don't work for CPS because your reading comprehension is pretty poor.
That's to Yermer, not John.
I don't know that its been established that the child "needs" immediate heart surgery.
I had a doctor once insist that I "needed" a very invasive surgery, and tried to scare me into doing it immediately. I went for a second and third opinion and the other two doctors offered vastly more conservative treatment and both expressed shock at the first doctor's behavior.
I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if doctor #1 had somehow retaliated against me for seeking treatment elsewhere.
Yermer, did you actually READ the story? They took the baby straight from Sutter to Kaiser, they did not go home. After their visit to Kaiser, the doctors there felt the baby was fine to go home, and sent the baby home with the parents THAT is why they were home with the baby when police came. Here is the part of the article you missed or misread.
"If we got the one mistake after another, I don't want to have my baby have surgery in the hospital where I don't feel safe," Anna said.
She added, "We went from one hospital to another. We just wanted to be safe, that he is in good hands."
While at Kaiser Permanente, the police showed up at the request of Sutter. The police told the parents that staff at Sutter had told them that the child was in such a bad state that, as Anna put it, "they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."
After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left.
People who don't care about their baby/child, don't seek medical attention and LEAVE the child in the care of a hospital for 2 weeks! Another thing, you quesitoned why every little part time nurse would know why he's on meds?! You are OBVIOUSLY NOT in the medical field. Nurses do know why pt's are on meds, it is clearly stated in each pts chart what they get and why they get it. Only RN's can distribute medication. They can't question a doctor as to why they give it, but they can certainly read and comprehend the chart. Nurses are given charge of a certain amount of pt's each shift and it is their duty to know the pt's needs in case a crisis occrus. Again, read the story correctly before making statements that show ignorance. Thank
If you read the article carefully, they went to another hospital…not home. And at that hospital, the doctor said he was in no danger and they went home from there. Before you start coming down on the parents, please look carefully at all the details. Also, I am in the healthcare field. We have to document every medical administered and why. In the orders, it lists medications and under the name it states "Treats: ____" That nurse should have known exactly what it was for before giving it. Also the police had already checked on them WHILE they were at the other hospital…then went again when they were at home…now that baby is in custody of the HOSPITAL?!!? I would be afraid if them performing that surgery now that they have FULL CUSTODY rights to do so….
Number 6: You're dumber than hell and can't read, evidently.
I think you skipped a part of the article. the parents DID go from one hospital to another, where the attending physician at the 2nd hospital said the baby was fine.
"She added, "We went from one hospital to another. We just wanted to be safe, that he is in good hands."
While at Kaiser Permanente, the police showed up at the request of Sutter. The police told the parents that staff at Sutter had told them that the child was in such a bad state that, as Anna put it, "they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."
After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left.
The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents.""
That is from the article above. These parents were told by the physician at the first hospital that little sammy didnt even need the medication he recieved from the nurse. I feel that these parents had a right to question the first hospital and take their son somewhere else. He was having Flu like symptoms and they were told he needed open heart surgery??? I would have gotten my baby out of there too. seems the hospital was using this baby as a lab rat for some experiment.
Karen S
ANY nurse administering medications had better know what they are giving, why they are giving it, how much they are giving, to whom they are giving it, and the route of administration. I have been a RN for 20 years. One of our main jobs is to be a patient advocate and to be sure that our patients are safe. WE ARE NOT UNEDUCATED HAND MAIDENS!!! If a nurse works in an academic setting, his or her main job is to stop the residents (MDs) from making mistakes ( AKA killing patients). They parents were more than justified in being concerned when the person giving a medication to their child is clueless.
Thank you. I'm a nurse and I would never, and I mean NEVER administer medication to a pt w/o knowing what it was for, the dosage, the frequency, and any side effects, if for no other reasons, than to be able to answer the pt's (or guardian's) questions.
When you work in peds, you hold in your hands not merely one life, (the child's), but also an entire family's lives in your hands. While all lives are valuable, the life of a child is especially so, as parents are not meant to outlive their children. Children can eventually overcome the trauma of the death of a parent – they are very resilient – but a parent will NEVER get over the death of a child.
This is to say nothing of the possibility of doing harm to the point you cause life-long complications for a child and/or the parents.
Sutter's medical staff, the moment they were told that the parents took the child directly to another hospital, were a) no longer legally responsible for the welfare of that child. That now fell to the hospital staff which had seen the child most recently and b) should have been satisfied that, if the child REALLY needed open heart surgery, the other physicians would agree and the procedure would be done at the new hospital. The child's parents were obviously safe people and the child was receiving care under another doctor. There is NO REASON to call CPS.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Sutter Medical is very desperate to have this child undergo this procedure at THEIR hospital for financial reasons.
There is a very big difference in dx from one dr to another, and that is very… suspicious and troubling to me. When I worked as a nurse in a hospital in Detroit, very, very frequently I saw drs order unnecessary tests and procedures, especially from medicare/medicaid patients, or patients who seemed like they had MONEY, just so the hospital could profit.
When I pointed this out to Hx admins, I was told to not overstep my bounds and shut up. I was fired 3 weeks later for the "infraction" of showing up TOO EARLY to my shifts. Supposedly my coming in 20 minutes early to talk with patients on a more 'personal' level was 'disruptive to the schedule'.
I was hired at U of M not long afterward and, thankfully, I did not see the same thing go on there…
Hence why my family ONLY goes to St. Mary's. Regardless of how anyone feels about the service, there is NO hanky panky.
Read the article again. Follow how they went straignt to the other hospitol where the dr there had a different opinion. The police didn't find them "hanging out at home", but were at the hospitol when the police "caught up with them". Now, tell me why they came to the parents house the next day when it was stated by the other hospitol baby was fine and will be ok at home with the parents?
Did you even read the article. They left the first hospital, and went to another hospital. They were medically discharged from the second hospital! This was directly copied and pasted from the article…
"If we got the one mistake after another, I don't want to have my baby have surgery in the hospital where I don't feel safe," Anna said.
She added, "We went from one hospital to another. We just wanted to be safe, that he is in good hands."
While at Kaiser Permanente, the police showed up at the request of Sutter. The police told the parents that staff at Sutter had told them that the child was in such a bad state that, as Anna put it, "they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."
After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left.
The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents."
They did take the baby to another hospital and the following quote is what the doctor at the SECOND hospital said..
"The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents.""
The nurse at the first hospital didn't know why the baby was being given the antibiotics and then the doctor later said, the baby shouldn't have been receiving those antibiotics. After that, I would have left also. They didn't sneak out a back door and they don't need any paperwork to transfer hospitals.They have every right to take their baby to another hospital, which they did right away. The police even went to the second hospital, saw that the baby was fine and examined the medical records. The police saw nothing wrong.
It wasn't until later, when the baby was released from the second hospital because the doctor was not concerned for the baby's health, that the police went to their home the next day to take the baby from the parents. The police probably only did that because the hospital was embarrassed about the mistakes and horrible care they provided and trying to protect their own butts so the hospital contacted CPS to take the baby. I'm speculating here by the way.
Sometimes, I wonder if people read the entire story before they comment.
What article did you read? You completely screwed up the facts, Yemer. Most likely, the people at CPS who made the decision to take that baby away misconstrued the facts, just like you.
Andrea Senchy
I am a neonatal nurse, working in the field for over 30 years. We HAVE to know what meds we are giving and why–it's part of our legal responsibility as nurses. And (not to disillusion you) doctors sometimes make mistakes! When an order is written by a doctor, it's sent to the pharmacy, who are also supposed to check to make sure it's the right med and right dose. We nurses at the bedside are the final check to make sure everything is right—so the nurse in this case ABSOLUTELY should have known why this child was getting a specific medication.
Sorry this is so long, but I just get fed up seeing "they are just nurses". Many of us, even at the bedside, have Master's degrees, and a BSN is just about the required minimum for education these days. There was a book called "Nurse" several years ago, and under the title blurb it said "Doctors don't keep you alive–nurses do!"
Read the article again. They were only home with the baby after taking him to another hospital to be checked and to get a second opinion. That hospital discharged them to go home with the baby. Perhaps the first hospital had it wrong, perhaps not. The police even examined the records, in the second hospital, and felt that the baby was fine. We don't know if the baby would die without surgery. The article doesn't state that.
And number 5, a good nurse *does* know why a patient is receiving the care that they are providing. According to the doctor, the child shouldn't have been on the meds in the first place.
Furthermore, you state that the parents should have put in the proper paperwork to change doctors, but you talk about the urgency of the situation. Why should they wait days to have the paperwork go through before getting a second opinion? When did getting a second opinion become criminal?
And six, why don't people take the time to actually read an article instead of just skimming?
I really want to know where you got the information that you are talking about, because, I saw nothing that you are describing in this article. For example, you stated, "They say they were taking the child to another hospital, yet when they were tracked down, they were hanging out at home with the infant." but the article clearly states that the police's first contact with the family was at the second hospital where the child was fine and the doctors stated that he was healthy enough to go home. It wasn't until the following day that they went to the family's home.
Also, you keep referring to the child needing Open Heart Surgery, however the article never stated that the first hospital was saying OH surgery, and many types of heart surgery can be done in a less invasive manner. If there was really such a vital need for heart surgery, the hospital should have discovered it when the baby was first admitted 2 weeks earlier and dealt with it then.
Any nurse worth their weight should know why patients are receiving certain treatments, including medications. Nurses who work with babies are, and should be, even more aware of their patient's needs, issues, illnesses, and treatments because if something goes wrong the baby cannot just inform them of any problems.
It is the parent's right to take their child to another hospital. They did notify the first hospital as to where they were going, obviously, because the police located them right where they had said that they would be. I worry for the first hospital, who now have control of the baby because they are in for a lot of legal trouble, especially if they go ahead with this surgery that they claim the baby needs but the second doctor didn't even think was important. The parents did their job and located a doctor who actually made sure of the health of their baby rather than trying to take advantage of a chance at a lot of income for a 2 week hospital stay, various treatments, and pushing for unnecessary surgery on an infant. Any doctor should be open to second opinions, especially with a case such as this. The hospital and the police are in for some deep trouble now.
Steve maile
Little part time nurse? Do we answer to too the doctor gods. You speak as someone who is completely ignorant of what floor nurses do. We are the ones that make sure you get the right treatment even when the doctor gets it wrong! It's our license that hangs out there when a mistake is made So you better damn well know what your giving,how much, what for, and be watching for complications. Better chart it perfectly for the doctor who looks at it and sniffs when he hands it back! As for this couple can anyone predict what would happen to there baby? Could those who removed the baby be 100 percent certain that they would do better then their parents. A lot of baby are born with heart conditions that resolve themselves over time. If they let the baby out of the hospital the condition was not critical! So for the armchair experts that don't work in the trenchs,your conclusions are meaning less!!!
"While at Kaiser Permanente, the police showed up at the request of Sutter. The police told the parents that staff at Sutter had told them that the child was in such a bad state that, as Anna put it, "they thought that this baby is dying on our arms."
After the police saw that baby Sammy was fine and examined medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home, they left.
The attending doctor at Kaiser said, "I do not have concern for the safety of the child at home with his parents.""
Are you retarded, or did you miss the part where they went to a Kaiser hospital and the doctor was like "The kid's fine?" or are you just a shill for your political paymasters?
"Why would every part-time nurse have to know why he's getting the meds?!" — Uh, because that's a huge part of her job as a nurse. Spoken as a nurse, parent, and concerned citizen.
Brian S.
You need to go back and read the article again. You have so many things wrong in what you have written here I don't even know where to start. But, we'll just mention that they didn't go home like nothing was wrong. They went to another hospital. With what you have written it's like you deliberately wrote the opposite of every point made in the article. Are you an full time internet troll? I mean I can't imagine someone making a serious reply and getting as much wrong in that reply as you have gotten in yours. Practically every point you make is wrong according to the article.
May I speak to the point about being alarmed when the nurse didn't know why the medication was being given? As a nurse, (or nursing student, in my case) it is my responsibility to not give any medication to any patient without knowing why the medication is being given. To give a medication to anyone, especially a 5-month-old baby, without knowing why it is being given is ethically wrong. I would be alarmed too.
Genny White
They left the first hospital Sutter, and then immediatedly went to the second hospital where the child was discharged clinically well enough to go home under the care of his parents. The next day police found them at home with their son after being cleared by the second hospital.
As a nurse you are just as responsible as the doctor is when medication is prescribed. You have to know what it is used for and you need to know what its contradications are . For most patients a nurse is the source of information for the patients and family, because a nurse may be the only medical staff that they may see during the day since doctors usually only come around once or twice a day and rely heavily on the nurse to report to them about their patients. A nurse is responsible for knowing "every little scrap detail" about their patient because they are the one caring for the patient if they don't they are held just as responsible as a doctor if the case goes to court, so believe me a nurse is going to want to make sure that they know everything that is going about their patient. Nursing notes are scrutinized in court just like a doctors and the nurse really cannot hide behind well I was just doing what the doctor ordered because a nurse has to know what everything is for or they need to seek advice from another member of staff to make sure that they are doing things right.
Did you not read the article it said they brought him to a second hospital and that is where police first tracked the family down and they were told by the doctors there that the baby was fine and the police saw that he was fine that is why they left the second hospital. The first hospital was probably feeling vindictive since they were losing easy money on keeping the baby there indefinitely while they jerked the parents around about a diagnosis.
It would have been real easy to pull up a screen and show if the baby needed heart surgery or not and even if he did should have been able to leave the hospital with the parents monitoring him until surgery to make sure that he was okay. With my son we found out that he needed heart surgery when he was 6 weeks old and the results were shown through the echo they did and the cat scan that they did on him. They did not tell me now we are going to keep him here until he is ready to have surgery. I was given prescriptions to get heart medication for him with directions to go to his pediatrician every other day for a weight check to make sure that he was maintaining his weight. There were tentative plans for him to have surgery when he was 6 months old because he would be bigger and hopefully stronger. But at 9 weeks old after one of his weight checks he had lost 2 ounces and that put everyone on high alert and we were sent to see the cardiologist again and he was having surgery the day after Christmas at just 10 weeks old but even then he was still sent home with us with instructions to not go to any parties or to allow any visitors to the house and to keep feeding my son as much as he would tolerate it. Now three years later he is a healthy rough and tough boy.
Yermer… you sound like a babbling lunatic.. you basically read everyone else's comments and then tried to make them your own.. but you totally skipped the part where the baby was taken to a second hospital and they said the baby was fine that's why the parents were "chilling at home" the first hospital obviously has a reputation of malpractice and to me and others it sounds like a case of a staff member getting pissed and taking revenge… yes the childs best interest is at heart… but if that hospital would have opened up that tiny baby's chest and started cutting on it, and the baby really didn't need that surgery and died because of that… well the only people suffering are the parents because trust me the hospital will still get paid for the surgery and then for removing the body and so on and so forth… so before you state your very well UN-Educated Opinion about Something Like This… Do The World a Favor and Keep Your Comments To Yourself.. and Also if you haven't already please don't reproduce we don't need someone else in this world that has idiotic opinions and thinks they know it all… Get a Life
Number one- yes, it is clear
Number two-it is not evident that the baby did actually need immediate surgery
Number three – the police found them at another hospital, not "hanging out at home". they were initially found at Kaiser hospital, getting a second opinion.
Number four – this is not adequately covered in this article, but you are a patient, not a prisoner, at a hospital. even if the hospital refuses to complete the paperwork to check you out, you still have a right to leave. and there is nothing in this article to indicate that they "snuck out the back door with an infant that needed immediate heart surgery". Also, they did not go home, they did not "bury their head in the sand", they went to another hospital. Finally, it is most certainly not "point and fact" that the child will die without surgery. The second hospital certainly didn't think so, and had no problem with the child being taken home.
Number five – knowing the medication and purpose of any medications administered to any patient is, in fact, part of the nurses job. this is not diagnoses, as you seem to think, but she can damn well read the chart and talk to the parents. ("oh, the dr prescribed this to reduce inflammation in the lungs", for example. have you ever been in the hospital?) And to reiterate Number four, which you bring up here again…if the hospital does not or refuses to process your checking out, you are still allowed to leave.
Lastly, you're absolutely correct…this child has a right to health care, and the parents were well within their rights to protect their child by seeking the best possible – which is exactly what they did.
He doesn't need immediate heart surgery. Sutter scheduled the surgery two weeks out. The police have confirmed they met the parents at Kaiser. The parents have know their son had a heart murmur but were under the impression surgery if needed at would be done much farther down the road. It's not uncommon. My son had an irregular heartbeat but the doctors told us it would like clear up immediately at birth or within the first months of life. They said even if it didn't we wouldn't have to consider surgery for many years. Thankfully his did correct itself at birth. However, I would have wanted a second opinion too if suddenly I was being told he needed surgery within two weeks instead of the years later I thought!
Let me respond to you a o a few things I'm a nurse and even if I was part time I would know what drug I was giving a patient and why. Also did they have this child mixed up with another it happens I would cause me alarm if a nurse did not know what she was giveing
Let me respond to you a o a few things I'm a nurse and even if I was part time I would know what drug I was giving a patient and why. Also did they have this child mixed up with another it happens I would cause me alarm if a nurse did not know what she was giving
I don't know who you've been talking to, but if it was a doctor or a nurse, they violated patient confidentiality, and your account directly conflicts with the accounts of police and medical professionals who were actually there and actually saw the family. Nice try though.
I, and it seems, others, think you should either learn to read correctly, or you need to go back and read EVERYTHING, AGAIN!! As everyone here has read the story I don't see where anywhere it says that they "Snuck Out the Backdoor", or that they were "Hanging out at Home BEFORE taking their SON to the Second Hospital". Where exactly are you reading this? Because if I'm not mistaken we ALL read the SAME account of what happened in the above story. It clearly states that when they lef, they IMMEDIATELY went to Kaiser, their (2nd) Second choice of hospitals, because they clearly didn't agree
with the care their son was being given at the first, It also clearly states that while at the hospital
Comment cont'd from earlier. Texting got messed up. But what I was trying to say is this, while at the (2nd), Second hospital, that is the first time the Police showed up, because Sutter, the (1st), First hospital called them. While there they examined the child, talked to the doctors there anx read his medical records and were told by the Doctor and nurses overseeing the child that he, (Sammy), was in no danger from being released to go home with his parents, and they could clearly see he was healthy. It was NOT until the next DAY that the police showed at their house to remove Sammy. Anyways. Do us all a fovor, ReRead the article PRINTED above and REDO your comment. Because you are SO clearly WRONG, AND OffBase in what you said. Thank you!
Maybe the hospital knows they have done something wrong, and are covering up their tracks. I think an investigation into the hospital and what they have done to that poor baby is more than warrented….
It is so true that there is children at this moment being abused and CPS only like the easy ones that they don't have to go to far to get or have to do extra paper work !
It happen to me due to lies and my small children were taken away from us for months .
My husband and I worked came home in time for my kids from school, clean home , plenty of food and plenty of love in our home . We lived for our children and never them ever being away from us . It was a nightmare from hell . I said to the one cps person why us when they had nothing to go on , they were wasting time because there is a child out there being abused or killed and they would not stop with us . The experience we went threw is hard to put behind you . With God help he got us threw this .
Almost one year of hell everything was dropped in court Because there was NOTHING but a lie and that's all they needed . Made their job very easy for a year and hell for us and this family now . I pray they won't have to go threw it , they just get back their baby right away .
I cannot imagine what parents are going through now. I am a mother of 8, and every time I take my kids for a well check exam I always have this enormous fear what doctors are going to do to my baby, and each time I ask what kind of shots are they giving, what is it and why? If I don't get the answer I refuse the shot. I feel like the CPS go over the boundaries of their main job: to protect truly abused children with an obvious sign of abuse, or check on those who which are not eating right or drinking Pepsi from a bottle when they go to sleep (I have seen this), or on the cold day have only one shirt while the mom is wearing the warm sweater and warm pants but the child looks pale blue and cries from the top of the lungs because he or she is cold and hungry (you can see those parents in almost every grocery store at cold weather); or when kids are fed with dry warmed up fast food leftover meal from yesterdays MacDonald stop by instead of the healthy meal while mom is smoking or drinking!!! And the house is an absolute mess! for some reason those kids are not removed! But when children are well cared for, eat healthy, look healthy and very smart and dressed up appropriately for the season and parents are living a healthy style life, the house is very clean and fresh cooked food in the house, then those kids are targeted to be removed!!!!! Isn't something to think about? Dotn parents have right to have a 2nd or 3rd doctors opinion when it comes the health of their precious child???
Theresa Bowles-Schweizer
I would sue the flippin' 1st hospital for slander!!! And false accusations that led to this!!!
realy mad, this is stupid y did they even think the child is theres to be taken away……..not right and not there property…………