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A POLICE OFFICER removes debris from the road after an IED, Improvised Explosive Device, targeting a U.S. convoy hit a civilian vehicle in Baghdad, Iraq, on Monday Jan. 2, 2006. One civilian was killed and 2 others were wounded in the attack. By KARIM KADIM, The Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Iraq's oil minister announced his resignation Monday, saying that the government had acted in an authoritarian way in forcing him to take a mandatory leave last month and that its policies were worsening the condition of the country's poor.
The raising of oil prices last month was "anti-democratic and lacks foresight," Minister Ibrahim Bahr Uloom told a news conference.
Iraq's oil industry is in crisis as insurgent groups capitalize on unpopular gas price increases by bombing oil pipelines and gas stations and attacking drivers of fuel tankers. In December, the country's oil exports hit their lowest monthly level since U.S. forces overthrew Saddam Hussein in 2003, the Reuters news agency reported.
Now political recriminations have been added to the mix. Uloom had threatened to resign after the government announced the sharp fuel price increases last month. Several days later, he said Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari had placed him on mandatory leave.
Uloom's announcement Monday was a recognition of political reality; over the weekend, the government named Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi as oil minister.
A government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the issue is a sensitive political matter, said Jafari considered Uloom's public castigation of the government to be "unforgivable." The decision to raise prices, part of a deal to reduce Iraq's foreign debt, had been made in 2004, the official said.
The question of the oil industry's future is a critical one for Iraq, which has the world's third-largest oil reserves. Government officials and economists say oil revenue is essential for rebuilding a country ravaged by years of war and mismanagement.
So far, the picture has been bleak. An Oil Ministry spokesman, Asim Jihad, said fuel consumption in Iraq has increased since the end of Saddam's rule. He said a million cars had been brought into the country, and the country's shattered electric grid hobbles along on a patchwork of gasoline and kerosene-fueled plants and generators.
As a result of increasing demand and declining supply, Iraq imports much of its refined oil products, at an estimated cost of $6 billion a year, Jihad said. Last month, the country's exports of 1.1 million barrels of crude oil per day were only half of what Iraq was typically able to export before the change of government, according to Reuters.
While political skirmishing dominated news in the capital, Sunni Arab leaders meeting in northern Iraq with Kurdish leaders appeared to relax demands for a rerun of last month's parliamentary vote. They said Monday they would accept the results of a commission of inquiry if it conducted its work freely and openly.
If the commission "meets with the political entities that rejected the results, and the investigation is transparent, I think we will not be obliged to insist on repeating the elections in these provinces," Tariq Hashimi, secretary general of the Sunni-dominated Iraqi Islamic Party, said at a news conference broadcast on Iraqi television.
In the western part of the country, four American civilian contractors were killed Sunday when a seven-ton truck accidentally hit their bus, U.S. military authorities said in a statement. Eighteen others were injured in the incident at Al Asad air base in Anbar province.
In Anbar, the heartland of the Sunni Arab insurgency, U.S. military authorities said that during a week-long operation Marines had found more than 1,000 artillery and mortar shells, along with scores of grenades.
At least eight people were reported killed in violence Monday. The deadliest incident appeared to be in Baqubah, about 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, where a car bomb exploded near a bus carrying Iraqi police to a training course.
Ali Khayam, press officer of the Joint Coordination Center of Diyala province, said the bomb killed six officers and two drivers of nearby cars. A U.S. military spokesman wrote in an e-mail that three people were killed in the explosion.
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PASSENGER:COLONEL JOHN WEIRColonel John Weir was 60 years old when he was on the Titanic. He was born may 14, 1852. Mr.Weir was a native from Scotland. he was president of utah mines. He went to England then boarded the Titanic. His ticket no. was 1163800 11s. He was a first class passenger. He died in the sinking. His body was never found.
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Local Organization Steps In To Help Pittsburgh Boy Who Suffered Brain Hemorrhage In Puerto RicoWhat was supposed to be a dream birthday vacation in paradise turned into life and death struggle for a Pittsburgh boy.
Vigil Held For Little Girl Found Dead In Swissvale RavineIt's been five days since a little girl was found dead in Swissvale, and while her family waits for answers as police investigate her death, community members gathered Thursday night for a vigil.
Family, Friends Organizing Memorial For Little Girl Found Dead In RavineAs the investigation into the death of Adrionna Williams continues, her mother is turning to social media to express her grief.
Garth Brooks Shares Video Of His Birthday Weekend In PittsburghWhat better place to celebrate your birthday than right here in Pittsburgh? That's just what Garth Brooks did!
Victim's Family Raises Domestic Violence Awareness, Supports Women's SheltersNearly three years ago, a young woman was killed and her ex-boyfriend was arrested.
Local Woman Celebrates Her 106th Birthday"Happy birthday to you..." Friends and family sing the familiar song as they gather at a Hill District church to celebrate Lillian Allen's 106th birthday.
Local Girl Gives Back On Her 8th BirthdayMya Fox learned early in life that it's better to give than receive.
Pittsburgh Zoo's Baby Gorilla Turns 1-Year-Old You're invited to a birthday celebration.
Pennsylvania Celebrates 333rd BirthdayHappy birthday to Pennsylvania, which turns 333-years-old on Sunday!
Apollo Woman 110 Years "Young" It's not everyday that someone in our area turns 110 years old.
Ross Township Woman Celebrates 109th BirthdayBagpipes hail the birthday of a woman who traded her native Scotland for Ellsworth, Pennsylvania 93 years ago.
Webcam To Broadcast From Andy Warhol's GraveThe Andy Warhol Museum is launching a live video feed from the pop artist's gravesite to honor his 85th birthday.


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This is a discussion on Let's say the S just HTF, how much ammo do you have? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a case of shotgun shells, and about 200 rounds for each pistol. After reading what you all store as a "just in case" ...
I have a case of shotgun shells, and about 200 rounds for each pistol. After reading what you all store as a "just in case" situation, I feel drawn to the store to load up...
I always felt like I never wanted to look like "David Coresh", but this thread has changed that view... Who knows what might happen, but if a Katrina ever happened, I don't think I would be prepared enough for a situation as that...
NRA Member
"...the Constitution does not say Government shall decree the right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. - Ronald Reagan
Yeah, but how many of you guys have over 100 gallons of water stored?
I have 1,000 rounds of 7.62 X 39 for my SHTF rifle.
Everything else varies.
Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!
.223/5.56= 3,000 rounds (HP and FMJ of varying weights)
.22LR= 1,500 (could always use more)
.45ACP= 900 (mostly FMJ, would like to have about 1,500)
9mm= 800 (would like about 3k)
12GA= 120 (just bought the 12ga)
.410= 20
.40= 100 (dont have a .40 though... yet)
Overall the only thing I'm content with is the .223. Been buying a lot of that lately to stock pile. Everything else I'd like to have about 1,500 rounds minimum on hand.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
[QUOTE=Doc Holliday;404846]Yeah, but how many of you guys have over 100 gallons of water stored?
During the hurricane aftermath we just hooked up a Genny to the well. I also have an old fashined pitcher pump that I can put on if i run out of gas for the genny, and about a 1/2 acre pond in the back that serves as abackup water supply and seafood pantry.
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
I have 80 gallons. (two 30 gallon and one 20 gallon blue plastic FDA approved food grade storage barrels with oxystabilizer for 5 year rotation of supply.) First stored water for Y2K... so rotate water every 5 years. Next rotation due in 2010.
Probably 10 + gallons in water pipes that can be drained.
I will probably buy one more 30 gal and one more 20 gal. storage barrels in next year or two.
Just me, wife and 2 dogs.
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
I have enough hulls, primers, and powder for 1200+ rounds of 45ACP, and powder, primer and bullets to make about 150 more rounds each for the .243 and the .30-06. 38spl isn't so much a consideration in a SHTF situation, nor is surviving long enough to use several thousand rounds of anything in legitimate defense. Look how many trained soldiers don't live long enough to empty their first mag.
Aerobic 07
Fuel Saver Plus Stabilizes gasoline for 3 years without rotation
Pri-D Diesel & Kerosene Stabilizes Diesel & Kerosene for several years without rotation
Nitro-Pak Main supplier of preparedness supplies. (I recommend them)
I have other sources of preparedness supplies and some that are very specific in nature if you are interested in more PM me.
Last edited by Bark'n; June 19th, 2007 at 10:46 PM.
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
I don't anticipate expending a ton of ammo in anything resembling a protracted firefight. In the aftermath of a Katrina-like disaster I think the average looter/gangsta outfit can be discouraged pretty decisively with a small demonstration of accuracy and range. I saw how this worked after Hurricane Andrew. I know the formula works.
OTOH, another SHTF scenario might resemble another part of the Katrina experience where the "good guys" come galloping in at the behest of some Governor and start grabbing guns from the populace. In Katrina the actors were brought in from states with strong gun controls already so the national guard from those states (Illinois and California) was already of the proper "mindset."
Okay, NOW WHAT? I'm inclined to prepare for this sort of action by cache the good stuff and leave a couple of throw-downs and some loose ammo around for them to "seize" so I won't be forced to create widows and orphans of folks just trying to accomplish a mission according to "lawful orders," Constitutional or not.
Suppose the Globalists get the legislation of their wet dreams: Somebody like Hillary in the White House, and overwhelming majority in both houses of Congress and folks like Biden and Schumer on the US Supreme Court. They manage to overturn by Supreme Court decision, the actual meaning of the 2nd Amendment. Laws are passed for long range conversion to the Australian model and yada yada yada....now the SHTF scenario is ...the rest of my life which may not be too long anyway.
No more gun sales, no more ammo. But the populace MAY be able to keep their guns and ammo on hand so long as it is NEVER replenished. The globalists can now continue with their plans to merge into the NWO, and simply wait for the current generation of gunowners to simply die off, naturally. That won't take long. They've already been indoctrinating our children for the last 20 years -- not so far to finish that deed.
It's possible that CCW laws might remain in effect, state by state and the feds in charge might hesitate at making a frontal rush there before their hold is secure. Nobody would want a 10th Amendment challenge at the USSC to cloud the issues.
So we might retain what we have on hand. There might not be a crush of urgency.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


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CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (October 4, 2012)--The U.S. Air Force launched a satellite Thursday from Cape Canaveral to be part of the existing navigation system for the military.
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The newly launched spacecraft includes an improved military signal that is more resistant to signal jamming in hostile environments.


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Sounds like their assholes. If they were smart they would be super nice to absolutely everybody so everybody would not be tempted to turn them in to the cops.
Chasing a child of eleven down the alley shirtless with a butcher knife is not something a mellow pot grower should do if they don't want garner attention to their gardening.
Call them out to the cops for harrassing and threatening their neighbors. Since when was chasing a kid down the street while holding a butcher knife and hurling racial slurs at neighbors totally acceptable? Seems like you're leaning towards getting them on a technicality because you lack the guts to get them for the more specific, legitimate reasons.
If the cops pay a visit and decide to punish them for growing pot... well, call that incidental.
"...and last week they chased a child of eleven down the alley shirtless with a butcher knife for teasing their cat."
Why the fuck didn't she call the police then?
"I already know it is okay for me to like and fuck whoever I want as long as there is mutual consent."
Where the fuck did that come from?
Jesus, is it homophone confusion day today?
there = not here
their = belonging to them
they're = they are
You know Dan, this is the first time I aggree with you.
Way to tip the typical NIMBY attitude of permissive seattle trotsky-ites on thier ears.
I would hope, if they are at all sane, they would vote to turn the dirtbags in. For all the reasons above, plus bringing down property values and being a general nuisance.
In addition, if these people are so unable to lives by certain social standards, there is reason to think there is other, even more nefarious, behavior going on behind closed doors. The arrest and detention of these people will do our community good.
I am with Gomez. Call the cops with a noise complant the next time they keep you up at night, or with harassment next time they harass a neighbor. Keep it up until they stop being assholes or get busted. Either way problem solved and you didnt narc.
See, she can call the cops on them for so much else, particularly the chasing the child down the block with a butcher knife. Threatening children with knives is illegal. Additionally, she can go to King County's parcel viewer and find out if they're the actual owners. If so, call the County and get them for building code violations. If not, contact the landlord and let them know what's happening at their house so they can be evicted. If their TV is too damn loud, call the cops for noise violations. You can harass them endlessly and make their lives hell, and if you and all your neighbors are persistent, they'll eventually leave.
Yep, totally a false choice. There are more than two options here.
Like so many others have said, nail the bastards for what they're doing that you, and your community, don't support. The harassment of neighbors, the late night noise, the old toilet in the yard, and the big one... chasing a child with a butcher knife. Those things are all illegal too.
The idiots shouldn't be doing any of that if they want to run their growing operation, but that just makes them stupid.
Yes, kick them out! They sound crazy, the pot thing isn't the issue, and it sounds like they are bringing the trouble on themselves.
There are so many issues in that letter besides the pot growing - notably that really this person wants the place next door for his/her sister - that I'm actually not sure that I believe everything the writer says. I think the writer may be rationalizing a call to the cops on the pot growing, in order to get a preferable neighbor. Very undestandable, but not what the writer purports the issue to be.
If everything in the letter is true, however, I agree that the writer has enough valid reasons to call the cops on the asshole neighbors without bringing up the pot.
Whatever you get them for (there are about a dozen options here)... just get em. You shouldn't have to put up with that. And if they didn't want to get busted, they should have learned how to socialize as decent human beings. Assholes don't garner good will in any situation.
Fuck them. I'm all for weed & weed growers but if they had two brain cells they'd realize you have to be extremely low-key and courteous to your neighbors to not get busted. Call the cops already.
On the other hand, the cops are more likely to respond forcefully for a pot bust than for a general nuisance.
This isn't a war on drugs issue, it's a war on assholes issue. Call the cops, suffering in silence is bullshit. Yes, they threatened children..but how are you going to prove that after the fact? Getting them on housing code violations? Harrassing them endlessly with minor complaints? Seems like a waste of time. Go for the pot tip, police will love that and it'll for sure get them dealt with. Growing bud doens't mean you get to be a dick and be excused for it. I love pot, but if this was next door to me...fuck that shit.
Call the cops because of the violence, not the weed. If the cops smell the weed growing, so be it. But try to swipe some plants before you turn them in...and grab some for me too.
Look, if it is wrong, on principle, to turn people in to the cops for growing weed, then it's wrong whether or not said growers are assholes.
That said, I used to live in the apartment above a menacing drug dealer, a white guy who had "THUG LIFE" tattooed across his lower torso. This bastard was always complaining because he could hear me and my roomate walking around on the creaky wooden floors. He would make threatening references to his arsenal whenever he expressed his displeasure about our presence above him. He would also have a steady stream of visitors who I felt very uncomfortable having in the vicinity due to the potential for these druggies to rob me if they didn't have sufficient coin.
The only reason I didn't turn this guy in was because I feared retribution. While I find nothing wrong with growing pot, it's a sad reality that the bulk of drug dealers who deal with strangers as clientele become paranoid, aggressive and unpredictable. (This is one good reason to legalize and regulate the sale of drugs... get rid of menacing drug dealers).
It sounds like the neighbors in this letter are probably a threat to the safety of the letter writer due to the fact that they deal on location, and seem to be loose cannons. NOT because they are fat, hairy, yell and cook chicken-fried steak. Those are absolute bullshit reasons for turning someone in. So the writer should know that while it's ok to turn them in, two things should be clear. First, that there is some risk associated with narc-ing, especially if they dislike the writer to begin with and would have reason to suspect he or she might have done it. Second, that her personal dislike for these people can have no role in the decision to turn them in, or the writer is a disgraceful human being.
Oh sweet Jesus... I didn't think it was possible, but I find myself agreeing with ecce homo.
And I can't be sure, but I think Satan just hit me with a snowball
Once again, if weed were legal we could get it at Starbucks and there would be no need to interact with thug dealers or listen to your dealers demo tape while getting him high on your dime.
I agree with all the people who said the violence is the problem, not the green activities.
Face it, you're really looking for an excuse, a chance to overreact yourself.
It's human, but it's the dark side.
God knows I love pot, but why is it that all the growers I've met are cut from the same cloth as NATDW's neighbors? I've changed dealers twice because their source growers were incredibly skeezy people--and right now I don't even know exactly where the pot I buy comes from, which isn't great either.
As others above have elequently stated:
This is fallout from the sham "War on Drugs".
Normal people would behave in normal ways in making and using weed, were this idiotic prohibitionist repression finally ended.
Now that something this benign is criminalized, a lot of people in the business are the reprehensible types that this poor person is dealing with. Almost as bad as having the US Attorney General next door...
Fuck it.
Use the law for your own purposes.
Who cares if you're a hypocrite? It solves your problem.
doesn't say anywhere that they live in king county, folks.
i do vote for calling the cops on 'em for scaring the little girl. if said dealers open the door, the fuzz will smell the pot and bust 'em. i hope.
cops have more important things to do. deal with them yourself, pal.
I voted to call the cops, but not necessarily for the pot. Calling about the pot will certainly result in much quicker action by the police, and they are ultimately breaking the law (no matter how ridiculous) by growing and are monumentally retarded by not keeping a low profile. But you have to face the fact that if you call them on growing, you become part of the problem.
Also, there's some revealing points to your letter. I've lived next to fat, disgusting assholes too, but I've never tried to have any of them evicted. If they really did chase a kid with a butcher knife, you should have called the cops right then and there. Hell, you could have gotten them on code violations a long time ago from the sound of it.
But one thing I don't think you've considered is your sister's safety. Once she moves in, there's still going to be people coming by for weed for some time, and she'll be the one having to send them away.
Anyway, my vote is to call the cops next time there's any other illegal incident and leave it to them to enforce their ridiculous drug laws. But don't call them for anything you wouldn't call a thin, sexy, non-growing neighbor for.
Burn their house down and inhale deeply.
Not sure if all the information is not overly dramatized. Chasing a child down while waving a knife? Not too sure I buy it. Otherwise, the slur hurling, lawn neglecting, pot smoking, chicken-fried steak-frying neighbors should be left to bask in their blissful smoky shithouse.
Broken down cars and a commode in the yard? Throw in two fatties in greasy t-shirts and it does not get more American than that.
Who the fuck watches a half-naked adult chase an 11-year-old down an alley with a butcher knife and doesn't immediately call 911?
Moral grounds? Was the letter written by a pot smoker or at least an anti-prohibitionist? I cant tell, but I it looks like "yes".
The neighbors are face value assholes. The moral dilemma is of Hypocrisy. If the writer is motivated not to get rid of pot growers, but to get rid of bad elements than so be it; growers know all the angles for the risks to "bad elements" in their profession (and society).
Pissing off neighbors is a risk they are taking, by growing pot and for being all around assholes who grow pot. For the writer, it comes down to how/if the call is made is this person open to the idea of getting reward money for turning them in? In WA that call could mean a $5000 check from law enforcement. If they cashed it, they would be a hypocritical dick/bitch in the pot friendly crowd.
I guess I think NATDW is full of shit. "Dan, I cringe when I see them with their shirts off smoking cigarettes and yelling." Wow, send them to jail.
Let's look at the bulk of NATDW's complaints:
1) They often do not wear shirts
2) They eat chicken-fried steak
3) They are fat
4) They are hairy
5) They leave their windows open all night
6) They have a bad yard
7) They do not have expensive cars
8) They do not have a nice house
9) They smoke cigarettes
10) They grow pot
11) They are straight
12) They are not NATDW's sister
In addition to which, there are a few actual complaints:
1) They are apparently racist
2) They threatened a kid who messed with their cat
3) They frequently yell
I guess I think that if these people were a real problem, NATDW would have focused on the racism and the child-threatening more than the cigarettes and the chicken-fried steak and any number of things that are none of NATDW's goddamn business.
ITA with jb @17 and Evan @ 31
@25, Get real. Calling a woman a pussy because she doesn't want to physically fight 2 large men is kinda retarded. What are a lady's options in this situation? That ain't one of 'em. She could threaten them with physical violence, to which they could call her bluff and, oh, I don't know, Kill her. Or she could take them the only way that guarantees she won't get injured herself: Sneak up on 'em and shoot 'em. But then she goes to prison or gets hanged for murder. Arson (27) is maybe slightly more reasonable, but she could burn down her own home in the process, and still faces the possibility of getting found out and busted. Most criminals are passably OK at committing crimes; Average law-abiding people suck at it.
No, her only options involve the cops. Although I do agree with other people here implying this letter sounds like exaggerated horseshit from a passive-aggressive loser who wants to self-justify doing something shitty. In which case, well, the outcome is going to suck no matter what.
Simple answer.
Why the fuck did they not call the police when the dude was chasing a child with a knife?
I could never in clear consience rat out my neighbor's grow op for my own devices. I'm just old fashioned like that.
I would however, have no fucking problem running tose assholes stright off the block for abusing children.
Rat 'em out for the chasing-kid-with-knife incident. Problem solved.
I wonder what would happen if his sister just walked up to the front door and made an offer on the house?
Smart idea from 35. I'd say it has maybe a 15% chance of working, but it's not a bad starting place because it's low-risk.
I'd call a housing inspector, not the cops. There are laws against having a derelict property.
I agree with the majority of people on here, call them for other things; the cops are likely to smell the pot of their own accord if it smells as bad as the letter says it does.
But this really drives home the point I've been trying to make to friends. We don't grow, but we do smoke a lot, and I try to keep it out of the view/smell of neighbors, because if they decide they don't like us for something else, then they can call the cops/landlord for weed and we're out of here. A neighbor once called on my next door neighbor for smoking weed (which he never does) because he was being loud with his friends. The neigbor knew the cops wouldn't care about a noise complaint, but man, they came running when he said they had weed.
So I couldn't call about the pot, I'd feel like a hypocrite.
I'm totally against anti-pot laws but, regardless, it is against the law. If your going to grow pot in your home then you should, atleast, be cool to your neighbors. These guys sound like total jack asses. Maybe an anonomous letter to these jerks might make them see the light (though I doubt it). Maybe complaining to the city about the condition of their house/yard and their crazy behavior. Don't rat them out about their pot growing. Rat them out for being filthy assholes. Regardless of their pot growing. Treat them like you would any obnoxious neighbors.
I voted suffer in silence for the weed cuz I love weed and too many growers are getting popped.
Actually sounds like they will prolly get busted soon anyway.
But. . . that biz of chasing an 11 yr old with a knife would have been a good damn good reason to call the cops.
It seems we mostly all agree that NATDW should call the cops. This idea I keep seeing of "call the cops for something else, and if they smell weed at the door so be it," though, that's just chickenshit rationalization.
If you can make the judgement that the assholes need police attention, and you know that any call will result in a pot bust, then make the call that will get prompt police action.
It's not as if letting a social boil like this fester will do anything to convince the powers that be that pot growing is benign.
The poll is a false division, there are many more options between "narc" and "nothing".
Yes, its morally reprehensible to call on Big Brother to do your dirty work when you are against Big Brother's "drug" "war".
Perhaps leave the Narsty Neighbors an anonymous tip that the cops are on to their operation (a lie), give them time to clean up their plants, then get the State involved on their asses because they are slovely, dangerous people.
Once the plants are gone, reguarly registering complaints for actions such as: violating noise ordinances; chasing children with knives; unsafe habitation; etc., would focus the attention the actual problem. Perhaps even organize with neighbors to start complaining as well, so that all the complaints aren't coming from one person only.
If Narsty Neighbors get busted for pot anyway, that's their own fault, not yours since you tipped them off and didn't call in the Drug Czar's Elite Forces.
Another option would be to organize with some neighbors, go over to the Narsty house as a group, and lay it on the line. Tell the Narsty's that you are well aware that they are growing/dealing and that they are fat slobs (use your own terms here), and that you want them to know how much attention they have attracted to themselves. Don't threaten them with a pot bust, don't even imply it, but make clear that they are walking around with their underwear flapping about in a dangerous way and that you are concerned.
Or, just suffer in silence, they'll probably get fucked up eventually anyway.
I'd like to reiterate that calling the cops is not without risks. If these neighbors get busted for growing, they are going to be in a lot of shit. It will basically disrupt all aspects of their lives, and they probably won't feel like they have much left to lose. They sound unpredictable and unstable enough to begin with, so if they have any reason to think that the writer is responsible (or that some other unfortunate 3rd party is responsible), things could get really ugly. This isn't something to deal with flippantly.
Leave a note on their door that says "I know you grow weed here. You are acting very badly and are pissing off your neighbors. Keep it on the downlow, treat your neighborhood with respect, clean your shit up and act proper or your ass is getting busted."
It's what I do when I catch the crackheads smoking up in a van parked in the street in front of my house, and it's worked every time.
I tend to agree with both Evan @31 and NaFun @44. Either of those solutions is probably ethical. NaFun's is certainly more humane. No one should face our current drug laws as a result of being trashy neighbors, and having these people busted for their cannabis gardening would be horribly selfish.
Let's look at this from a different angle: Suppose the neighbors happened to be homosexual, and NATDW lived in a state where sodomy was illegal. Would it be appropriate to call the police to complain about sodomy -- even though it's illegal and they've been none-too-careful about keeping it on the down-low? Of course not.
41. I think you're projecting, lostboy. If anything, calling the cops about the pot, which isn't really the big problem NATDW has with them, to get them evicted is chickenshit rationalization.
I've never been able to tolerate drug ABUSE, even fat hairy pot-growing, pot-smoking hetero males, are not on my list of must-keep neighbors. Endangering kids' lives, is definitely where I would draw the line. Call the police, get them out. I've had to do it several times in the course of my life, not because I am a nosey bitch, but because, those living conditions were intolerable, especially because it affected the lives of my own kids, or the kids in the neighborhood. Nothing wrong with protecting kids, right? Nothing wrong for wanting peace in the neighborhoods in which we live.
Has it occured to anyone on this thread that this is the actual reason we have drug laws?
Sure, there are a few prissy jerks who are convinced that marajuana is, like, ungodly, and the government needs to step in and save us from sin. But most voting adults have smoked weed and certainly don't have a problem with others smoking it. That is, if the smokers are upstanding corporate-lawyer types. But the fact is that a disproportionately large fraction of the mebers of the ganja community are smelly, jobless, socially disfunctional bums who don't keep their yards clean and attract other unsavory elements to the neighborhood. Drug laws are a convenient lever with which to dislodge them.
The virtue of selfishness? Do the means justify the ends, or the ends the means? This is hysterical.
This has precious little to do with this person's opinions about the war on drugs. Oh, and a moral dilemma? C'mon. At least you didn't write ethical dilemma. But surely there's no better way to resolve a moral dilemma than with a vote, because if there's one thing we all know, the majority knows best.
This person wants its sister to move in next door. The other reasons may or may not play a more central role in the desire for the current occupants to leave. Does what they do harm this individual beyond mere annoyance? No. In this case, does the pursuit of this individual's self interest prohibit these people from persuing theirs? Yes. Some would conclude from this that this person doesn't have a right to turn these slobs in. If the roles were reversed, would this person like them to do what it's contemplating doing? Probably not, but this last one goes nowhere.
If this person were to turn them in, would its actions entail that it believes that antidrug policies are right? No, but this person does believe that its self interest is more important than the rightness or wrongess of anti-drug policies, and therefore neither supports nor believes either way, but in its own self interest.
Now let's justify it. Self interest neither justifies or entails anyone doing anything from a strictly moral perspective (you need to add something to it--a judgment). So how about utilitarianism? If this person were to follow self interest, get these people removed and processed through the criminal justice system, its interest could be realized. However, it would impact two people worse than it would benefit two others. But property values might increase in the area beenfiting many more than just these two, and the undesirables wouldn't do harm to other residents, either through those they attract, or on their own. And, the potential for such harm would at least decrease with them gone. So go for it.
Gomez @46, you're assertion might be an argument against calling the cops at all, but that's not the question I was talking about.
Phil M @45, you're analogy is flawed. If, like in NATDW's case, the problem with our hypothetical "none-too-careful" sodomizing neighbors is that they are terrorizing the neighborhood and letting their property go derelict, then there is no reason we would want to make a sodomy complaint because our honest and legitimate complaints would bring the police faster.
Your analogy depends on us wanting the neighbors busted specifically for sodomy either because we have no legitimate complaint or because it's the sodomy that really bothers us, but that's the opposite of the situation being discussed here, which is wanting the neighbors busted but not for the pot.
Your analogy draws its force from a sodomy complaint being a discriminatory act--people are born gay--but that strength is another failure point. However much sympathy we may have marijuana users, I don't think anyone even here would argue that it's not an action of choice.
None of this is to say that NATDW is not clearly a person with issues. Besides points already made by others, who would want their sister to move in to a "falling apart" house that sounds like a major clean-up and restoration project? O.o?
If you really are against the war on pot, you can't call the cops on them for anything less than you would other neighbours. It would be like knowing that your neighbour was a homo back in the bad old days, and calling the gestapo to come and get them if they pissed you off.
If you believe that growing pot is fine, you can't dangle your knowledge of their growing over their heads like some guillotine waiting to drop should they cross you.
If their non-growing activities cause you to fear for yourself or your community, yes call the cops.
Na Fun (@44) is completely right. An additional bonus is the psychological torture (anxiety of getting busted) you are able to inflict on them, and thus get revenge.
This incident shows why unjust laws can have good consequences. By making something that is widespread and innocuous illegal you give people an incentive to refrain from doing really bad things.
I wish folks, male and female, would take on learning to deal with conflicts, with grace is nice.. kudos to 44, and others who called for human, not police action. If we don's want police state, then figure out a human way to deal w/ conflict
I wrote:
Suppose the neighbors happened to be homosexual, and NATDW lived in a state where sodomy was illegal. Would it be appropriate to call the police to complain about sodomy -- even though it's illegal and they've been none-too-careful about keeping it on the down-low? Of course not.
Lostboy responded:
[Your] analogy is flawed. If, like in NATDW's case, the problem with our hypothetical "none-too-careful" sodomizing neighbors is that they are terrorizing the neighborhood and letting their property go derelict, then there is no reason we would want to make a sodomy complaint because our honest and legitimate complaints would bring the police faster.
Well, no, that depends on the attitudes of the local police. I'm sure there are places where sodomy is illegal and the police would be very excited about the possibility of bustin' a coupla ho-mo-sexuls. But even if I'm mistaken, let's add that and just a little more detail to the setup for my hypothetical situation:
Suppose the neighbors happened to be homosexual, and that NATDW lived in a place where sodomy was illegal, and in a place where folks don't take kindly to faggotry. Let's also assume that in this hypothetical place, the punishment for sodomy is similar to that for growing cannabis in the United States (it's a stretch, I know, but work with me). Would it be appropriate for NATDW to call the police to complain about sodomy knowing that this complaint was likely to result in severe punishment for behavior NATDW generally condones -- since that behavior is illegal and the dumbass neighbors have been none-too-careful about keeping their behavior on the down-low? Of course it wouldn't. The law and resultant punishment would be unjust, NATDW would know it, and NATDW would be an absolute piece of shit to leverage that unjust state of the criminal justice system to achieve his no-overweight-chicken-fried-steak-cooking-toilet-in-the-lawn-having people next door dream world.
Lostboy continued:
Your analogy depends on us wanting the neighbors busted specifically for sodomy either because we have no legitimate complaint or because it's the sodomy that really bothers us.
No, I don't think the people I tried to reach with the analogy wanted NATDW's neighbors busted specifically for growing the forbidden plant 1) because there was no legitimate complaint (most everyone here, including those whom I targeted with the analogy, seems to think there's a legitimate complaint) or 2) because they are really bothered by the growing of the cannabis plant next door to NATDW. I suspect those people just think it's reasonable for NATDW to want the neighbors gone because of all the other problems and that turning the neighbors in for an unrelated but serious-in-the-eyes-of-the-current-law crime would be an efficient route to that removal.
Lostboy continued:
Your analogy draws its force from a sodomy complaint being a discriminatory act--people are born gay--but that strength is another failure point. However much sympathy we may have marijuana users, I don't think anyone even here would argue that it's not an action of choice.
Yes, I agree with all of that. BUT, I didn't intend for the discriminatory nature of the act to be the focus of the comparison. I was pointing out another absolutely bullshit law that results in completely unjust punishment, but one which deals with behavior that has been somewhat "un-demonized". Many people around here can still rationalize turning in their crappy neighbors for being drug dealers (even if the particular drug at issue is just little 'ole mary jane) because growing it is illegal. Fuck that. These neighbors have done something wrong, and NATDW should do something about it. But no one deserves a circa-2007-in-the-United-States drug conviction for growing a cannabis plant any more than anyone deserves any punishment for takin' it in the butt. If they really run around shirtless with knives and have three shitty cars and a toilet in their yard, NATDW should tell that to a judge, not turn them in for something NATDW really doesn't believe is wrong (but is currently dealt with as if it were extremely wrong) for which it will be easier to obtain a conviction.
That said, I've shifted my position to absolute support of the warning tactic advocated by NaFun. NATDW should -- either anonymously or as a group with all his/her neighbors -- let the neighbors know that they need to get their act together or else the next complaint will not be a neighborly "Hey we don't want to land you in prison but we're really fed up with your un-neighborly behavior" notice but a complaint to someone who might end up sniffing around the neighbors' front door.
I'm with 44 and 54.
I guess I'm the only one who thinks the little brat got a nice good scare for fucking with someone's pet.
if they are the owner, NADW could call a real estate agent, and start the process of selling their home. It is interesting what a real estate agent will do to maximize their potential profit, so let them call the fire department et cetera. Then once the nuisance has been abated, decide to not sell the house, or sell the home once its value skyrockets after the nastiness is removed.
The interesting thing is that simply by being a neighbor, NADW is at risk of facing retribution whether they are the source of a complaint or not. The assumption will be that they are somehow involved. These neighbors don't exactly seem to attached to things like logic.
That's the fun of living next to people like this, it doesn't matter what you do, if they are busted due to an anonymous complaint that spurs the police to drive by and see the lights and whatnot through the windows, NADW is in danger.
It's not so much an ethical dilemma, because NADW is in a bad situation whether action is taken against the neighbors or not.
Phil M @55 responded to my criticism by writing (in part):
No, I don't think the people I tried to reach with the analogy wanted NATDW's neighbors busted specifically for growing the forbidden plant 1) because there was no legitimate complaint (most everyone here, including those whom I targeted with the analogy, seems to think there's a legitimate complaint) or 2) because they are really bothered by the growing of the cannabis plant next door to NATDW. I suspect those people just think it's reasonable for NATDW to want the neighbors gone because of all the other problems...[emphasis mine]
Yes, that would be my point. The sodomy analogy and the NATDW issue are opposed on these two crucial points, so the analogy is not valid.
I voted call the cops because I do not believe in suffering in silence.........
they are noisy, lousy neighbours and they ran after a child with a knife! (the child probably deserved it.....)
if you talk to them (always should be the first thing to do) and it does not work, then, as a last resource use the cops -which are more vile than straight pot growers with knifes......... police should be a last resource, it's usually bad news, specially in the US where they can go and shoot someone, and it will be your fault because you called the cops and the stupid cops freaked out when they saw your shirtless straight neighbour and shot the neighbour to a pulp... no neighbour, no problem, and your sister can move to the house where the idiot pot grower was killed.
oh, btw, and do not call the cops on your neighbours growing pot because you want your sister to move next door. man, grow up!!!!
I'm wondering about the knife thing, too. Either the writer of the question is a chickenshit immoral little turd who won't call the police when a child is threatened, or the incident is being played up by him/her to make their cause sound a little less petty. Like, say, hairy pothead stepped out their kitchen door with a kitchen knife and yelled at the kid as opposed to actual chasing, or was doing it to make the kid drop the cat.
Assuming that story is true, and the customers are quite skeazy, I don't see a problem with reporting. Just because it's bad law doesn't mean the writer should have to live in fear. Though it sounds more like he/she is living in fear of secondhand cholesterol. Chicken fried steak? Please.
How about a third option?
Cash or Bud plus they clean up their act. Otherwise the man is getting a phone call.
I hate this only two option grind, it's bullshit Dan.
These people are bad for the neighborhood for reasons entirely incidental to their drug use. If they didn't grow weed, would you have hesitated for a microsecond to turn them in for being a menace to children and for keeping an unsightly property? Don't confuse the issue.
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Nothing tastes good anymore! :(
Mommy to Emmett 07/28/2009
I hear ya. And yes we can live off toast lol:)
^^DS^^ 11/11/10 6 lbs.11 oz. 20.5 inches & DD our rainbow baby 12/25/11 8 lbs 20.5 inches
Baby boy due 10-9-16
same here! I was such a good eater, and now I can't eat anything at all! and the worst part is, I am famished like ALL THE TIME. I keep eating a little bit throughout the day, but I don't do well with snacking. I need a real meal. Yesterday, I had veggie pizza for dinner (which I normally adore), and DH had to plug my nose just so i could keep it down. I feel so guilty because I want to be eating healthier but the only thing I can keep down is crackers and chips. I really don't mind the nausea, but the hunger I cannot stand
Me (26) DH (29)
Married the love of my life 08/09/09
DS (12/26/2011) and EDD (10/17/2012)
I went through this for about a week or so, but then it got better. Just do your best and eat anything that you can. It should get better soon. Good luck!
1st pregnancy - m/c @ 9weeks
Olive Noelle arrived 12/30/2011 - 9lbs 1oz and 21 inches
Felix John due 9/15/2014!
Good Luck girl!!
A PROUD�Army Wife! 4.25.08 & a�mommy to a beautiful baby girl Jaslyn 9.22.10 also excited for our 2nd EDD 1.9.12 :)
Me too! I was just getting frustrated because I was craving lemonade and as soon as I poured myself a nice cold glass the first taste of it was AWFUL! I didn't even taste like lemonade! That has been the case lately with most foods. I hate grocery shopping because next to nothing sounds good so I don't feel like buying it, but I try my best to keep good meals up for DH and DS.
Jan 23 2012. Even If you don't believe God bless you.
Im right there with you! Everything tastes odd and nothing looks good!
Laura: Mommy to 2 beautiful girls: DD 04/05/08 and DD 01/03/12
Same here. Things either taste different, or gross. So sad, but maybe I won't gain any weight because of it. LOL I was trying to lose like 15-20 lbs before I got pregnant, was eating well and exercising, now I am eating carbs, carbs, and more carbs cause it's the only thing I can stand to eat. Ugh!
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August 24, 2011
Short URLs, Back in Google Maps
Google Maps is the service that generates very long URLs with many unnecessary parameters, so the short URLs are useful not just for posting a Twitter message or sending a text message, but also for writing an email, a comment on a blog post or for adding a Google Maps URL to a document. Google Maps also needs to automatically change the URL from the address bar, so that you don't have to use the permalink button.
{ via Google LatLong }
15 comments:
- AnonymousAugust 24, 2011 at 2:05 AM
The URL will never be changed automatically in the address bar because the URL for every single location, zoom level, what have you, is different.ReplyDelete
If they generated a distinct goo.gl URL for every single image they show in the maps window they'd run out pretty quick.
Waiting to get my Google+ profile url as http://g.co/+/remiz :)ReplyDelete
- AnonymousAugust 24, 2011 at 10:45 AM
Remiz, genius actually. Tell google about that!ReplyDelete
Smart move on the part of google! At last!ReplyDelete
Finally, a smart move!ReplyDelete
I think the author is referring to the long address rather than the g.co version. Currently when you would like to share the long URL with others, you can't just copy and paste the browser's address bar as it would only show the initial query and does not update when you have changed views in the map. So you have to go to permalink to get the accurate link every time you want to share your current view. It would be useful if the address bar actually reflects the current view, the way gmail, facebook etc do.
at last a great improvement... the day when i have to copy and paste a long url is over... way to go google... maybe Google should elaborate more on this...but i seem not to find this info in goole official website. :-0ReplyDelete
Doesnt look like they could get much shorter than g.co!ReplyDelete
I've seen at least one phishing email using a goo.gl redirect trying to get credit car details - at least Google will be keeping this short url private.
Hey, seems like they are not working today? I click the box for shortURL and nothing happens.ReplyDelete
Sorry guys but i agree with the comment above me. It's not working. Can someone please tell me if this has been implemented already?ReplyDeleteReplies
They work, I just used them, and its cool, urls are unimaginably short though :)Delete
Doesn't work for me either. Never worked!ReplyDelete
I think this was a good move by Google. They certainly tested it enough.....ReplyDelete
It's a good topic than other that has a lot of importance. In this topic,ReplyDelete
here has many lesson for us. By which we can benefit. Thanks for this topic.
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Tom and Jerry - Spotlight Collection
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The Tom-and-Jerry legacy chases through every nook and cranny of the classic animation pantheon, spanning six decades and several famous directors. Looney Tunes icons Friz Freleng, Tex Avery and Chuck Jones all played their part. But the enduring cat-and-mouse team was the brainchild of William Hanna and Joseph Barbera. Their first short Puss Gets the Boot (in which Tom was called Jasper) was released with little fanfare. Fellow animators did not consider a cat-pursuing-mouse scenario too exciting or original. But when unleashed on exhibitors and audiences, their hilariously diabolical rivalry delighted everyone. This 2-disc set of 40 restored and remastered shorts (along with fabulous celebratory bonuses) includes nine Academy Award nominees and seven winners.* And with this in hand, you're a winner too!]]>
What strikes one about every episode on these discs is the lavish care Hanna-Barbera paid to Tom and Jerry, not only drumming up new, sometimes exotic settings (such as the swashbuckling "The Two Mousketeers," or for the Old West adventure "Texas Tom") but also consistently turning out gorgeous and wildly creative backgrounds, where straight lines rarely exist and the palette of a night sky includes multiple, dreamy shades of blue and green. Technicolor and novel visual ideas (e.g., shooting a scene through the tunnel-like view of a hollowed-out bread loaf) are sometimes more pleasing than the combative relationship between the two leads. But their rivalry is often renewed in very interesting ways, such as the wonderful "Tom and Jerry in the Hollywood Bowl," in which the pair play competing conductors against a lovely backdrop of L.A. landmarks. Special features include the Anchors Aweigh dance sequence featuring Jerry and Gene Kelly, and a featurette, "How Bill and Joe Met Tom and Jerry." --Tom Keogh
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Now, I would like to start by commending WB and the forces and talents behind the scenes who have worked long and hard to get this classic material out there on DVD. It is great to be able to own them in this format and the extra materials, such as the Bill and Joe Story and the Scott Bradley piece are very interesting and informative. This is true, particularly, of the Scott Bradley piece, in which Mr. Bradley regales us, in his own words, (dramatized from an article he wrote for a magazine in the 1940s) of his process and thoughts on scoring these wonderful shorts. It was very detailed and specific; intelligent and fascinating. I also enjoyed the stereo title that was very nicely presented. So let me say thank you, here, to all involved in the process of getting these cartoons released on DVD and PLEASE keep the classic titles coming! We love them, we want them and we thank you for them!
That aside, I have to say, particularly with these "Tom and Jerrys", these prints are NOT recently restored, (with the exception of the Cinemascope prints, which are gorgeous!).Read more ›
I was searching, today the 21st, on one of the forums below and happened upon Jerry Beck's (Cartoon Historian who worked on the DVD) post:
Warner Bros. Home Video is very, very upset over the edited cartoons that made their way into the TOM & JERRY SPOTLIGHT COLLECTION.
This was a mistake made at the servicing level. Warner Home Video and I became aware of the error only ten days before the official release date - and by then, the dvds were on their way to the stores.
It is part of Warner Bros. Home Video's marketing plan not to release edited or censored cartoons because they know that collectors want them complete.
The company is taking immediate steps to correct the situation. The proper digital masters of all three cartoons have been located and are being prepared now for replication. It may take as long as six to eight weeks to have a corrected disc ready for replacement.
From what I've been able to gather, the intention is for fans to be able to replace Disc 1 at no charge to them. I know from personal experience that Warners had a problem a year ago with the film KISS ME KATE. The transfer was not done correctly and fans were upset. Warners responded immediately, created a new transfer and eventually fans recieved replacement discs. It was not an overnight process. But it all worked out in the end.
Those of you waiting for the uncut disc 1 to appear on store shelves, I cannot say when that will happen. It will not happen soon. The quickest way to get the set the way you want it is to buy it now and go through the replacement process.Read more ›
Well I received a nice birthday surprise from my son a couple of days ago. He purchased this collection as a gift for me. He didn't purchase it from Amazon but from our local outlet of a national chain whose logo is a bright yellow tag with their name written boldly in black. Anyway, the version he purchased was unedited. I didn't have to return any discs. Before the menu appears on Disc 1, there is a disclaimer about how wrong the ethnic stereotypes were then and still are today. I didn't get to finish the disclaimer because it was quite long and didn't stay on the screen long enough. This disclaimer doesn't appear on disc two.
People have asked how they can tell if their version is edited or not. Here are the scenes that were included on my DVD that are missing from the edited versions. On "The Milky Waif", there is a brief scene where Jerry and the baby mouse cover their face with shoe polish to fool Tom and escape. On "The Truce Hurts", there is a scene where the Bulldog (Spike usually but I'm not sure if that was his name in this episode), Tom and Jerry are going to cross a street with a mud puddle at the curb. A car splashes the mud on their faces and they take on features to imply they are African American. On "The Little Orphan", there is a brief 5 second scene or less of the mammy bringing food to the table.
How can you identify the product before purchasing?Read more ›
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My nephew and niece LOVE the original Tom & Jerry.. they laugh hysterically at these episodes. This is the good-quality, classic originals they we remember from our childhood, not... Read morePublished 1 month ago by Jonathan Lombardo
A good start to the much bigger Golden Collection which has the bets collection of the Tom and Jerry shorts totally uncensored. Read morePublished 1 month ago by Daniel Medina
This was purchased as for gift and it was loved by the little boy that got itPublished 2 months ago by gihepinto
Gave this as a gift and the toddler loves looking at it. It is one of his favorites.Published 2 months ago by Cristal A. Lupo
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8 reviews | 4.8 out of 5
My 2 year old son loves Thomas and really loves this video! He would watch it all the time if I let him. I didn't think he would like the Mr. Perkins part because its just one guy talking, but he doesn't mind it since its pretty short. I like the short episodes for his age, so I can turn it off after an episode if I need to. I just don't like the last episode. Its about a train being afraid of the dark woods. Lately my son gets scared when the characters on TV and in his books are scared. (He is not afraid of the dark yet, so I don't want that to start!) So I end the video when it gets to this episode. Its kind of annoying that producers have to talk about scary things with little kids even if they are showing there is no need to be scared - it just reinforces or even teaches kids to be scared of things they were never scared of before. Oh well, I still feel like I got my money's worth since the video was so cheap and my son gets so excited when I let him watch it.
They Talk in this movie... My boy is 2 and he loves it.
My autistic grandson loves anything Thomas, he saw this movie advertised on You Tube and had to have it. We couldn't find it in any stores, so we went online and found it here. Thanks for the great price and making my grandson very, very happy.
Thomas fans will love this fun, exciting, action packed adventure. It's filled with thrills n spills and really useful engines:)
A great DVD to add yo your Thomas collection.
i got the movie for my 3 year old that loves thomas he would which him on netflix all day long over and over so i think he going to love this it for christmas cant what to see his face
well worth the money, my 18 month old son loves this one. It is animated so the engines talk.
grandson loved it glad I found it


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I've been thinking about this for a while and I don't think we're going to have a difficulty in our next game that's called "Normal." Instead, I think we'll do something like this:
Easy-going Difficulty - For the player who wants to focus on story & coast through the gameplay aspects as well as people who are brand new to RPGs. Would probably be somewhere between Easy & Normal in our previous games.
Challenging Difficulty - A modest challenge. Enough to keep the player's attention and maybe have to rethink their strategies occasionally but they should still be able to finish the core story-path of the game without too much trouble if they keep at it (although optional content will probably prove more difficult). Somewhere between Normal & Hard in our previous games.
Maddening Difficulty - A strong challenge. For the players who really likes to min-max their strategies, dig deep into the game mechanics, and doesn't mind learning from failure. Akin to Insane in our most recent games.
"But how is this be any different than just having three difficulties and calling them Easy, Normal, and Hard?" Glad you asked.
By including a difficulty called "Normal," we allow players to abdicate responsibility for their own enjoyment. When presented with difficulty options, they don't have to make a choice - they can just go with the default with the idea that "That's how the developer meant the game to be played." Except, that that's not how we meant the game to be played - if we thought that there was one proper way to play through our games, we wouldn't go to the bother of making & testing various difficulties. There is no one "right" way to play through our games; everyone's experiences & expectations are different. For example, I personally find most of our games most enjoyable on the highest difficulty setting but if we made that the default, I think many people would be upset. And it's especially frustrating to read people complain about one of our games when the nature of their complaints reveals that they would have had a much better experience if they had just bothered to raise or lowered the difficulty.
In short, I hope that by removing the label of "Normal" from the difficulty selection menu, we can force the player to really think about what kind of experience they want out of our games. And when they realize what they want, they're more likely to get that.
EDIT: We might even go one step further and also offer a Custom difficulty option that would allow players to really fine-tune their experience if they wanted to. For example, such a system might allow you to adjust...
Enemy difficulty
Frequency of enemy encounters
Rate of gaining XP
Rate of gaining money
...and more. I've seen similar systems used in games like Silent Hill 2 (where you could adjust enemy & puzzle difficulty independently) and Persona 4 Golden (after beating the game, you can adjust various aspects of the difficulty) and it seemed to work out well.
31 Responses to "Why I don't think our next game will have a "Normal" difficulty setting"
Amen,Jenna Elf. I want to enjoy playing the game,and see the story. It's part of the reason why I didn't get MM9. It looks fun,but I'd rather play MM10,with its A. Easy mode and B. Bass.
Sliders would be amazing. I always feel like in shooters that I want to play on higher difficulties so I can fight against smarter AI and in larger numbers, but the bump up in enemy health always ends up bugging me. If I could have enemies on "easy" or "normal" health and "very hard" intelligence and numbers, then I'd be happy as Larry
I'm attached to the idea voiced by some previous posters, that different game difficulties should feature different content- even to the point of altering the story. How cool would it be if, at harder difficulties, the threat of the Antagonist actually increased in discrete, palpable ways? A central NPC is killed off at 2/3 story progress, the player confronts new tiers of scarier monsters, what was a library with straight rows of shelves on 'Easy' is a small maze on 'Stimulating' and a shifting-labyrinth puzzle room on 'Challenging' ...?
Additionally, I have always been a fan of more esoterically defined strength/toughness for enemy characters and creatures; the elemental damage model works well for this, through whatever device it's implemented, but what if enemies also responded to more subtle aspects of player characters and parties? In my idea of a more difficult game, enemies don't necessarily have more HP or damage resistance, but make smarter decisions based on character status, such as HP, MP (where applicable), and armor. If devs took a note from popular TCGs and limited attacking to certain contexts, while simultaneously attaching ads and disads to certain decisions, it would evolve a complex, robust combat engine that revolves around decision making.
Most importantly, great article- I'll be very intrigued to see what Zeboyd Games does in future titles!
I think this is profoundly misguided. I think games suffer these days from this notion of difficulty levels and adapting to players. Games should be balanced so that they work. Not so that some masochist can relish in broken bones and repetition, not so that everyone can get through on the first go, but so that it works.
The "normal" difficulty should be this difficulty, and ideally, the only difficulty. But often it's simply easy under another name instead. I recently read an article on the new XCOM game about this, they started out by designing the "baseline" difficulty and balancing everything around this. Then this baseline was made easier so that playtesters could more easily complete it and give a good experience with little difficulty to casual players, this became "normal" aka easy. And the difficulty was ramped up, in some ways significantly, for classic to appeal to the more hardcore nostalgia crowd.
The end result is that the mode the game was designed for cannot be played.
You can alternatively include options for tuning the difficulty yourself. But this only serves the purpose of making me, the player, put on my designer hat simply because you couldn't yourself be bothered to. Design by options isn't design at all.
The idea of adapting difficulties are even worse, eliminating all pretense of challenge by having the game remove challenge that is considered to be too great by some arbitrary standard, often whenever the player stubs his toe. Why not just make the game easy to begin with if that's what you want?
An amazing game that does an outstanding job of implementing granular difficulty is AI War (by Arcen games). It's a grand strategy / space game that is certainly not for everyone, but the number of things you can turn on/off, or adjust on a sliding scale from 1-10, is nuts, and it all comes together to let you customize both the difficulty and the feel of each galaxy.
If you want to see a model in action it's well worth a look
In old school turn based rpgs the only reason to even HAVE a difficulty setting in my opinion, is if the developer's insist on making grinding impossible. To me, turn based rpgs were great in that they always allowed you to set your own difficulty. If you wanted it hard explore freely and move on without leveling. But if you wanted to feel like a badass, you invested the time in overleveling your character until you were a force to be reckoned with.
If you are going to make turn based games that strip the ability to grind then I would definitely support custom difficulties though. Preferably changeable on the fly if a dungeon proved so difficult you were about to abandon he game.
Also, I think the opinion some have expressed of "make your game hard, who cares if everyone doesn't like it" is the worst sort of way to look at games. It's exclusionary and awful.
I'm a gamer who plays everything on the highest difficulty setting, and I'm waiting as patiently as I can for Dark Souls II to come out so that I have something new to sink my teeth into.
I think your perspective is interesting, and I appreciate the way you are disrupting the normal thoughts on game difficulty. I think by making it explicit that you have tuned the game multiple ways for different audiences it will really help people find the experience they are looking for.
So, bravo!
I don't like the concept of custom difficulty, at least not on first playthrough. i believe players often think they want that kind of customization but more often than not they are going to destroy the experience for themselves when they set things irresponsibly. Further more i think it's lazy on the designers part. don't force your players to design the difficulty, that's the job of the game developer. If you design a well balanced game you won't need to rely on custom difficulty settings. (which would break balance anyway)
Secondly i don't even like difficulty selections all that much. Games are more effectively designed when they are developed with a single playthrough in mind. (a single difficulty setting) This is one of the things that makes Dark Souls so great. Creating a game with different difficulties is often done so lazily that it's pointless. it's obvious developers design the game with Normal in mind and then latter slap in Easy and Hard. Both of those modes are unbalanced messes in many many games. In an RPG this often translates poorly as well. Of course Zeboyd Games fixes it with automatic healing but that's a whole other subject.
Since I know you's are going for the multiple difficulty options, at least try to make them more interesting and different from one another. spend more time on the feel of each mode. In practice each difficulty mode should be treated as a different experience, maybe even a different game. things need to change, enemies, ai, obstacles, everything needs to be designed from the ground up. if a game has a hard mode, don't just increase the ATK of an enemy. sure it makes it slightly harder but it isn't truly more challenging then that same enemy on normal. The enemies need to change in their tactics, they need to utilize more challenging strategies and force the player to have to think in a more efficient and intelligent way.
Try to avoid cheap difficulty practices, think about a normal Mario level, world 1-1. Pretty easy right? Well take that same level and remove all coins and mushrooms. that makes it harder but it is still the same level. a player who can beat that level usually won't find it much harder. even cheaper, just increase the number of enemies. again, harder but not much has changed in the design of the level, or the skill it takes to overcome individual obstacles. This would be a bad difficulty practice. A good one would require a completely different set of levels, ones that are more difficult in design. Mushrooms and coins should still be there and even with plenty of those, a hard level would still be hard. don't be cheap, is all i'm saying.
System Shock 1 is another that did this well; you could choose 4 levels of difficulty (0 to 3) for Combat, Puzzles, Cyberspace, and Plot. This covered a wide range of difficulties - settng Puzzles to 0 meant they autosolved, Combat to 0 meant enemies did not return fire, and setting Plot to 0 turned the plot of the game of and permitted the player to wander at will. (On the other hand, setting Plot to 3 meant you had 7 hours to complete the entire game!)
What I love about your proposal for difficulty levels is how user-centric they sound. In this context, "Normal" sounds very opaque - what does it represent exactly beyond "this is the developer's belief as to how the game should be played"?
WIth the terms you proposed, it just sounds much more approachable to the user.
I don't like the idea of easy/normal/hard as a general rule, but what I have seen as successful in games is when you are defeated by the boss 2 times, the game asks if you'd like to try again on an easier difficulty... that way the user can decline and try again as normal or punk out and breeze through the encounter.
Sometimes there is also an achievement for not using easy-mode on bosses, which would encourage playing the game as intended.
I, too, like the idea of custom difficulties. Like, in my book, from your games explicitly, I want fewer, harder encounters, because that where I have the most fun and what engages me most. PA3 has enough frustratingly simple fights (I've had less of that with PA4, which I'm in the thick of) to tucker me out at times, and I'd love to be able to set it for me: half the fights, twice as difficult, twice the reward, so every encounter is worthwhile and difficult.
Just abandon difficulty settings. Let the game be what the game is, and balance it to that. Not everybody has to beat every game.
I think this is a great idea especially with the custom difficulty. Most of the time I spend hours searching and tuning mods for RPGs to make the game feel more challenging but not overbearing or unfair while playing. Having three defined difficulties will give player a simple choice to make when they start knowing their game will either be story driven, challenging, yet fun or a struggle to overcome.
A custom difficulty would be exponentially fantastic. I myself like games to be a pleasant experience in both gameplay and story. If I get caught in a difficult area, the story slows right down and I get very bored. So when the action revs up a little slower, I rarely find my skill growing inadequately, and I can enjoy the game a lot more.
I'm just happy that you're keeping the equivalent of Insane difficulty, because that's by far my favorite in your games. I'm not sure renaming the difficulties is that big a deal, but I'm all for going down to three choices instead of four. Fine-tuning four difficulties instead of three sounds like extra work that's probably unnecessary.
I like it in principal, but honestly I don't know if removing the terminology "normal" will make much difference. Most of us are trained to look at the center option as the "normal", and which one the pointer starts out on is often the default "normal".
The custom options are intriguing, but it sounds like you are setting yourself up for an extended stay in QA land, trying to find a proper balance to the game. Unless "Custom" means "I don't give a damn about balance", which I can see. Although there are other options. I personally like how Tales games often have a NG+ grade shop that lets you tweak custom settings more than just a difficulty option change. On the other hand, there is also the Elder Scrolls difficulty slider as an option (although I wish it were more verbose about what it changes).
I agree with your decision but I don't like custom difficulty too much. It seems so...false.
What a great concept! Whats even more intriguing is the custom difficulty mentioned. What an interesting idea.
I am 100% on board with these ideas, but I am most particularly enthusiastic about the "Custom" difficulty option.
Custom difficulty would be so sweet, especially after first playthrough, would shorten the possible grinding so much. Especially with someone like me who must buy x+1 amount of equipment if game allows that (X being the amount of people capable wearing/using it) and so on.
Also I wonder if adaptive difficulty would work on RPGs, like the stuff on RE4, play good and you get less drops and enemies are stronger, and vice versa when you play horrible.
Since I enjoy your games the way one enjoys a fine wine, I really enjoyed reading your perspective. In particular, I certainly DID choose normal on your games because I assumed that would be the "designer's intent." From now on, I'll play at higher difficulty settings.
Mass Effect 3 did that in a good way:
Essentially they asked you if you want Action, Role Playing or Story, where different gameplay elements were adjusted. Granted, this isn't applicable 1:1, but I don't think Easy/Normal/Hard ever really applied to RPGs anyway. Some people just want an interactive movie with good narration, but there are others who really like to get into the numbers and know that an attack with 43 base damage that is boosted with a +5 and is strong against fire will two-shot an enemy with 127 damage and want that challenge.
I think it'd be interesting to have a difficulty level in which the player couldn't actually lose, yet still feel as though he/she had earned every bit of progress that he/she had experienced. For example, maybe offload certain commands to the CPU and make it seem as though things just happen to work out for the player, but it actually feels like it's really tense and difficult.
Maybe have it so bosses have their characters down to nothing, only to miss during some big attack and have the CPU-controlled party members keep the other characters healed just enough so they survive each attack. After all, there are plenty of people who enjoy stories, but really don't want to have to work for them.
I usually like to play on the hardest difficulty Although, I did lower it for the arena in Precipice 3.
Can't go with percentage like you suggest, Invariel, or it suffers the same problem - 100% is just the same as "Normal."
That's a good idea. For some games I really do just want to play the story and not get frustrated by dying all the time. And other times I want a challenge. Labeling the difficulty settings in this way makes it easier for players to find the amount of challenge they're looking for.
I was actually thinking about this while stuck on one of the fights in Precipice 4. The way your games work, you might be better off calling the difficulties "60%, 100%, 140%, 180%" or whatever, clearly indicating the relative challenge of the monsters.
I remember one of the Silent Hill games asking me if I wanted easy/normal/hard combat and easy/normal/hard puzzles, and, reflecting on that now, I really appreciated that system.
It's entirely valid for a player to think, "Normal is how the developer meant the game to be played," when what they actually mean is, "Normal is what the developer had in mind for an average challenge for this particular game type, trying to consider the average player of such a game." Normal for a shmup would be very different than normal for a bullet hell game, for example, but the shmup player might find 'normal' too challenging when playing bullet hell, and the bullet hell player would likely yawn at a shmup's 'normal'.
I agree with trying to give terminology to the player that indicates what each challenge level means, and I applaud efforts in that direction. Communication is important, and that communication starts as early as the difficulty selection screen.
Smart move. I dig it.
I love your thinking here. I used to get very defensive when I'd play a game through the first time on the easiest setting (some games, I just want to see the story arc). "That's not how they meant it to be played" is the bane of any free-willed gamer's existence.
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Released: Feb 01st, 2004
Running Time: 90
Director: Bud Swoop
Company: Devil's Film
Cast: Rio Mariah, Ashley Blue, Amber Roxx, Faith Grant, Julie Night, Teoni, Angela (I), Eden (I), Elizabeth Del Mar, Mira, Caitlin
Critical Rating: AA 1/2
Genre: Gonzo
The box cover featuring a cute lass blowing a cum bubble might move this one in an all-oral section.
Cum Filled Throats 2 is a solid, point-of-view blowjob video. And what's particularly nice about the point-of-view style of shooting is that the viewer never has to see the guy in the scene. The guy is the one holding the camera, shooting down on the girl as he receives the blowjob. And she will, invariably, keep looking up at the camera while she sucks cock. It is an awfully pretty picture no matter how you slice it.
Cailey Taylor and Melanie Jagger perform an inspired scene together while they share Brian Surewood's cock. These two big tit sluts are all-pros and look very good in action. But then again, so does Malaisah, a completely unknown amateur who simply projects naughtiness in an "I've never done this before but I know I can do it well" kind of way. Lil Bit More and Shawnie are two ultra-young blondes with killer bodies who don't hold back when they wrap their lips around Domineko's big, black cock.
Basically the video has a wide variety of girls who execute a wide variety of hot blowjobs, from slow, wet, choking efforts to nasty, frenetic cock gobbling. Fans of blowjob videos won't be disappointed at all.


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Entries in 'elder scrolls' (8)
Watch the Bethesda's E3 conference live at 3am UK time right here
Bethesda is holding its second E3 press conference this evening (in LA, this morning in the UK).
Margin Makers: Guide to Elder Scrolls merchandise
Bethesda's fantasy RPG series made its MMO debut on PC last year. This month, Elder Scrolls Online comes to consoles. MCV looks at the latest merchandise for the franchise
Margin Makers: Guide to Bethesda merchandise
Wolfenstein, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Dishonored – Bethesda has produced some of the most talked-about titles in games. MCV investigates the publisher's impressive repertoire
MARGIN MAKERS: Guide to fantasy merchandise
They might deal with swords and shields, but fantasy games remain as popular as ever in the modern games market. MCV sets off on a quest
Zenimax urges Elder Scrolls Online players to break the rules, name and shame gold spammers
Naming and shaming is normally prohibited on The Elder Scrolls Online's boards. But rules are made to be broken.
How do you sell a 'menace' like Dark Souls II?
A game like Dark Souls has no right to be talked about in the same breath as Skyrim.
The Elder Scrolls Online also uses microtransactions
More details have emerged about the business model behind Bethesa's hotly-anticipated MMO for PC and next-gen consoles.
Bethesda defends Elder Scrolls Online subscriptions
The announcement may have met a mixed reaction, but Bethesda is confident consumers will deem its upcoming MMO to be worth the monthly fee.


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Greenpoint residents hope that traffic congestion on Nassau Avenue will be eased in the near future, following the Department of Transportation's extensive reconstruction plans for area roadways.
"It's going to be hell as it's going on, but it's going to be great," said Teresa Toro, Community Board 1's Transportation Committee Chair.
At a Transportation Committee meeting this week in Community Board 1s offices (435 Graham Avenue), a DOT design team laid out plans for the remodeling of Nassau Avenue and adjacent street corners. The street, which will be 36 feet wide and have 12-foot sidewalks with new granite curbs when the $14 million project is finished, will be remodeled over a two year period from 2011 to 2013 after requests from community members eager to ease truck traffic on smaller streets around McGolrick Park (bounded by Driggs Avenue, Russell Street, Nassau Avenue and Monitor Street).
One of the DOT's techniques for a built-in design feature to calm traffic is called a neckdown, which is a 12-foot radius constructed on each corner that bubbles out from the street with an extension of the sidewalk.
"The idea is that Monitor Street is not a truck route," Toro said. "We want to make it difficult for trucks to make that turn around Monitor."
Community Board 1 members want neckdowns built on Monitor Street and Nassau Avenue to discourage truck traffic there and a smaller one on Norman Street and Nassau Avenue to make it easier for trucks to take Norman Street to access industrial roads. Neighborhood residents remain concerned that the backup of traffic from McGuiness and Apollo streets waiting to enter the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway creates an unsafe environment for pedestrians.
"You can end up stuck on the BQE for three lights," one resident said. "Then trucks back out and do crazy things."
Board members were disappointed to learn that traffic calming projects on McGuiness Avenue would not be part of the Nassau Avenue reconstruction plans as DOT officials explained it would be difficult for them to implement it. Members of the Transportation Committee said they would continue to work with the DOT to find additional ways of slowing traffic along the intersection of Nassau and McGuiness avenues.
"There are always dead flowers in the mediums over there because so many people have been killed crossing the intersection over the years," said Kevin McEvoy, of the Morgan Nassau Avenue Block Association. "It's a fast road. People get impatient waiting for the do not cross light to change. You would have to be insane to wait in the intersection."
The DOT design team also introduced plans for installing new sewer drains along Nassau Avenue. Many of the sewers along Driggs and Morgan avenues have been replaced over the past three years, but still have significant backups after a storm event.
DOT officials claimed that the sewers were in good shape according to a recent inspection but referred any complaints to the Department of Environmental Protection. McEvoy and several neighbors of his living off Morgan Avenue said that their basements were flooded with five feet of water after two storms on July and August in 2007.
©2008 Community News Group
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Early-morning rain has delayed the resumption of the fifth match of the Tri-Nation Series between the West Indies and Sri Lanka at Queen's Park Oval on Monday.
Sri Lanka reached 60 for three off 19 overs batting first on the scheduled day of play, Sunday, before torrential and prolonged mid-morning showers forced the abandonment of the rest of the day's play.
Should the match not be completed on the reserve day, both teams will earn two points each for the no-result, so qualifying the West Indies for the final on Thursday and putting the Sri Lankans two points in front of India in second spot ahead of the final preliminary match between the sub-continental neighbours on Tuesday.


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IPAL youngsters surprised by gym makeover
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Irving's Big Read takes residents on literary adventure
Cowboys move to Frisco, vacating facilities in Valley Ranch
City to discuss revised chicken ordinance, but public remains divided
Fritz Park Petting Farm: Where the wild things are
Be smart around the pool this summer
A solitary tribute to the fallen
Valley Ranch Islamic Center donates food, toys to community
AirCheckTexas can help replace and repair vehicles
DCCCD students cultivate a world view through seminar in Salzburg
IPAL youngsters surprised by gym makeover
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Smart Surface
Teragren's formaldehyde-free, food-safe bamboo parquet butcher block, available in natural or caramelized colors, is perfect for kitchen counters and tabletops. Also shown is the company's Studio wide-plank floating floor, which is available in vertical or flat grain; it features TeraLoc, a self-locking system that requires no adhesive. Made with environmentally safe materials from rapidly renewable Optimum 5.5 Moso bamboo, Teragren products are as green as they are stylish. The bamboo flooring is between approx. $6-$8 per square foot retail uninstalled (or $10-$12 per square foot installed) and the butcher block is between approx. $22-$28 per square foot retail uninstalled (or $40-$65 per square foot installed); Teragren