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You'd think I'm excited for CP3 to return right? Instead I'm apprehensive. This team is surprisingly more enjoyable to watch and plays harder. I'm seeing the first true, undisputed superstar go to option for a championship caliber team EXPLODE. Blake is looking like prime Karl Malone in year 4. CP3 is a great player and makes us better, but will the long term consequences be worth it?
My opinion is that if CP3 continues playing off the ball more and spoon feeding Blake... like he did 10 games before injury, we are a finals team. If at ANY point he reverts back to ball dominant, this is my team CP3, we don't get passed 2nd round.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/02/0 ... poil-show/
Here's an article expressing similar concerns.
Sorry meant first superstar go to option of this Clippers era in Los Angeles. More so than Brand was.
CP3 gives this team different ways of winning and also is a pit bull rebounding. Collision going back to the bench only helps balance out the scoring and we need Paul to beat the better teams and get over the hump.
The player that is probably most excited about CP3's return is Dudley. He'll get his easy looks now at the basket. I think overall, the chemistry will be fine.
CP3 needs to come to term that this is Blake's team. Just like Wade came to terms that it's Lebron's team. I've said it before that CP3 is a ball hog. Not Kobe or Melo ball hog where they shoot too much but he's literally a ball hog where he holds on to the ball for way too longs he needs to adapt an d learn to move without the ball.
Might take a couple of games for the team to really connect, but overall, CP3 and JJ coming back can only be a good thing. We can't expect Blake to carry the whole team on his back for another 30 games.
I've never seen him play like this before. He's like the terminator... whatever you do to him, he just keeps coming at you, relentless, indefatigable.
That's what we'll need down the stretch in playoff games, but until then let CP3 spread the wealth and keep the other guys engaged defensively because they're getting theirs.
Paul's a smart guy. He sees what Blake has done. It's up to Blake to take charge when he gets the ball, also. As mentioned above, Paul adds a surprising number of rebounds for a small point guard and I think we all miss his ability to force turnovers. I'm excited to see what happens.
Has Chris Paul said anything about Blake's improved play?
Pretty much this. With BG and his improved game and CP3 coming back I see us going on a serious run. I think we can potentially get the 2nd seed and will almost definitely get the 3rd seed.
I see Blake scoring around 24 ppg with 10 boards and around 4 assists per game. Paul will have something around 19-20 ppg/11 apg like before.
Now while Blakes scoring will definitely go down, I think CP returning will only do us good.. This was a great run and showed me this team has game and BGs maturation and game have gone to another level.. I believe we will be fine.
I want to see more staggering of CP3 and Blake's minutes so that either CP3 or Blake are on the floor at all times. This would make our offense run smoothly for 48 minutes and would allow both players some time to have the ball in their hands more.
One thing that I know will change is when we used to need an instant bucket from Blake, we would only create it through a pick 'n roll. Now Chris can just dump it to Blake from anywhere and let him do what he does.
Dudley's only hope of getting somewhat back to form relies heavily on CP's return.
I could see us potentially snag that elusive 2nd seed and fix our defensive woes along the way.
I agree, that's the one thing I respect about Scott Brooks. He's very good at making sure Star power is always on the floor.
I hear what you're saying but I don't think that our chemistry will go down. I think that it will actually go up and we'll starting climbing the western conference ladder. I think that this time without CP3 has really helped out a lot of guys with their confidence mainly Blake and DJ. Now our guys are thinking, 'ok we can do this on our own and when Chris gets back things are going to be even easier'. There may be some hiccups here and there but it should be an extremely easy transition. I had the Clippers going 72-13 before the season started and they are very far from that but I still believe we can be that good, getting CP3 back will really help us with that bump over the top.
It is not blake's team. So far, if you look at the team's they were playing, it was pretty bad teams. They faced like 4 teams, that have a high chance of winning a championship.... This is Paul's team... But, since he went down, Blake improved a lot. Paul see's that, so that means more passes to blake.
This is still Paul's team... Now since Paul coming back.... We will see what the clippers are made of
Agent great point. CP3 returning has huge benefits.
Collison can help the bench out.
Cp3's huge boost in defense and rebounding over Collison.
Dudley will likely play better.
CP3 gives us an elite closer we have lacked, costing us games against teams like Miami.
Masta this most assuredly is Blake's team. Everybody knows he's more vital to our success than CP3 and even CP3 has said it multiple times. 6'0 PG's don't carry teams, but he will surely be the closer. Blake is the face of the franchise and always will be. Glad the front office, fans and coaches agree with me.
This is Chris and Blake's team. Simple. We're forming our own version of Stockton and Malone here. Chris is far too smart and talented to screw up the chemistry of this team when he comes back. He is the best pg on earth and should always have the ball in his hands- that's the whole idea. Blake has been very impressive lately, but please, don't act like he should suddenly be crowned point-forward while CP3 plays off ball. Chris will hit Blake in his spots. He always does. He's an all-time great point guard.
We took a vote on this and with hundreds of votes Blake won 90 percent in a landslide. He's the face of the franchise and more vital now and in the future to our success. CP3 would be traded well before Blake.
We have two dynamic superstars - no excuses. Supporting cast has to play their hearts out.
That Is nice and all and I agree but what is the point of this post? These Cp3 vs BG posts are annoying and just seem to stir up controversy when there is none.
They are both our superstars and play on the same team. Its annoying that I constantly have to see post like this as if they were on different teams.
Not worried at all,they will get even better.
The point of it is that many misinformed people think all this team is... is the CP3 show. Hell most of the newer posters here actually said or implied it before this recent stretch. Time to eat some crow.
It would have been nice to beat one team ahead of us on the standings without Chris, but on the whole the team played well.
Before the season I predicted that Blake would need an MVP type season to push the Clippers deep into the playoffs. I'm glad Blake has gone off on a tear. Hope he keeps it up.
In my opinion, If the Clippers were to be a first or second round exit this year, I'd be open to trading CP3. I know this is just a small sample size of games w/o Paul, but if CP3 is stunting Blake's growth then maybe Chris should go. Plus, the return for a CP3 might be enough to cover a lot of gaping holes.
Don't get me wrong, CP3 is great and it's great that he's on our team but he's peaked while Blake's upside is through the roof.
We increased our win percentage and closed the gap on 1-3 seeds. When CP3 went down the team was nowhere close to the 2-3 seed. Like literally 7-8 games back if I recall. Beating good teams is great for confidence and not much else at the end of the day. The team competed with the elite and beat most of the teams they should.
That's what I think too. CP3 needs to make feeding Blake and creating plays for Blake the #1 option. Also needs to get DJ more involved. Our team won't go deep relying on our outside shooting its way too sporadic. Lower the amount of outside shots and pound it in through Blake and DJ. That will by default open up the perimeter. I like how the team looks with Blake as our premier offensive weapon.
I agree Clipset. I'd move CP3 for a package to fill all of our holes if he doesn't mesh right and we have another early playoff exit. A trade like the Nuggets pulled off when moving Melo.
Unless your getting Lebron or Durant no one else makes sense.
The amount of ignorance and overreactions on this thread are ridiculous. I am out.
You don't trade Blake and you don't trade Chris mf'ing Paul. It's like people forgot how GREAT Chris Paul is or something.
Cp3 for Westbrook, Thabo, and Steven Adams?
Cp3 for Damian Lillard and Batum
Has nothing to do with Chris. If our stars don't mesh and carry us frther, one may need to go and it won't be Blake. I doubt that willl happen though. I presume CP3 is smart enough to know this is Blake's team right now ad he needs to adjust more.
No way will he make the team worse!!
CP3 is smart and I am sure he took mental notes on what Blake did to play at the level he is playing at now. cp3 will help Blake get easier baskets.
But like some other people said hopefully he doesn't ball hog as much and lets Blake do his thing
Are you trying to make the Clippers better or the Thunder better?
Good way to make the Thunder a Finals lock for the next four seasons.
If you think CP3 makes "Blake worse" I can't wait to see what you would think if WB hogged 18+ shots per game on sub-par efficiency. Durant's numbers after WB went down have improved more than Blake's numbers after CP3 went down.
This is not CP3 or Blake team, This is Sterling's team, not even Doc. Why people said Miami is LBJ's team after DWade. can they not work together?
There are a million trade scenarios we could do with Chris, but only 2 of them would potentially be a positive trade. LBJ & KD and that's not gonna happen.
I'm sure Kareem could've won multiple championships without Magic in L.A. but that doesn't mean they should've traded Magic.
We could easily trade CP for players that fill our CURRENT holes on our team, but then we'd just be creating an even bigger hole, we'd be without an All-World PG. That's a pretty damn big hole.
Love these 2 quotes.
Common sense is alive and well on CTB... albeit in small doses relative to the amount of nonsense.
I can't believe I just read "trade CP3" from multiple people. A lot of Clipper fans have become spoiled and unappreciative... 5 Years ago real clipper fans would have begged for CP3, now you want to trade him? lol People obviously don't know that this is a league of superstars and superstars win Championships. 1 Superstar in Blake Griffin isn't gonna win it as we saw when we played against the heat. He scored 43 points and we still lose. If we had CP3 we would've won... You can't blame CP3 for Blake not performing the same before the injury, that is blakes fault. Only blake can become more aggressive, Only blake can become a better shooter, only blake can become a better rebounder, only blake can make his free throws. How dare anyone blame CP3 for blakes play and hindering him. CP3 has been Blakes biggest supporter since day one and wants to win. And to the guy who said CP is a ball hog..... You know nothing about POINT GUARDS lol
Cp3 has never been lock to go to the final. Just throwing names out there
He won't make the clippers worse. But I think what some are saying that CP3 needs to readjust his game to fit BG like moving without the ball.
For the past 2 1/2 years Blake has been the brunt of the criticism. CP3 has gotten away while. Blake the most consistent clippers was ridiculed,and criticized. Is it really that unfair to question CP3 if things don't work out. Let me repeat if things don't work out?
Also in the 2 1/2 years it's Blake who's doing all the adjusting in his game. Again is it really unfair to ask CP to adjust his game. After all BG has the higher upside ATM
No, it shouldn't. Chris always said he loved playing off ball when Billups was here. Now he gets to do the same as he begins to trust Blake and his improved playmaking ability.
If the Clips can find a way to share possessions between these two dynamic players, our offense will be very very hard to stop.
No your just thinking of awful trades that don't make us better. Last time I checked CP3 never had a Durant caliber player on his team not to mention our 2nd best performer in the playoffs last season was Matt Barnes.
Try again.
We have been watching this team on TV or in the stands. CP3 has been with the team watching in practice and from the bench. I'm sure Chris knows what is up. With Chris, we will beat the best teams. At least we would have beaten Denver and Miami with a healthy Chris Paul.
Stupid whoever says we do not need cp3.. cp3 is a superstar... Without him we will lose. Blake is a beast... not a superstar.. Paul is a beast and a superstar.. Blake needs to play good defense first..
It's like this every year,many people play fantasy basketball and want to just move pieces because it is so easy when it isn't real.
We have THE BEST pg in the league and a top 5,okay top 3,PF in the game on our team yet many are so afraid it won't work. That is why they both got mega-contracts,so they could be traded away for a package of somebody elses.
Hey i'm a new user on this blog. Holla from Paris.
Big ClipperFan, but i'm fed up with all those useless post. That's why i wanted to wright something about it.
Blake Griffin is becoming a real beast since mid-december. (Game againts The Spurs). And yeah, since Paul is out, we still up in the standing, and near the 3rd spot. But take a look at our shedule. We essentially beat out some scrubs team. The only " good " team we won againts was Dallas.
Spurs, Indy, Miami, Denver, GS = > 5 losses.
So yeah, we had a good strech, and our role players like Redick, Jamal, Collison, Jordan are playin better. That's good for our futur, but we need Chris Paul back to close thoses tough games. Dude is a killer, a bulldog on the court. A good defender. He has the best IQ in the NBA. He is smart, and knows what to do to win.
The past 2 years Blake was nowhere to be found, and Paul hepled us stay alive in this league. So how could u make some real bad statement like those about him.
Without Chris Paul, we can't go deep in the PO. Blake is playing great since 2 months, Paul, for 3 years now with ClippsNation, (and is having a stella year), and u are telling that u would be open to trade one of the hardest player to ever play the game in Clippers History ?
Well, that's nonsens sir.
With him on the court, and Blake at a AllStar Level, we can only go deep. It's up to the roles players to get ready.
See u in June.
Hope my english not bad. I'm out
This is what i am talking about. It was ALL Blake fault last year in the playoff? A certain 8 point game had nothing to do with it. Matt Barnes had 1'good game. He wasn't the 2nd best performer.
Just throwing out names in trade since u mentioned unless we're getting Lebron or Durant. How,about the splash brothers?


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As a follow-on from my Postcards from Australia series of posts, this is another treasure that was sent from Australia by the BATEMANs back to England.
The envelope above probably (I can't be 100% certain) contained the three photographs below, which are views from the town of Bendigo, Victoria, Australia.
From left to right they are:
- Soldiers' Memorial Hall, Bendigo.
- St. Paul's Cathedral, Bendigo.
- The Boathouse, Lake Weerona, Bendigo.
I know this because someone has helpfully written the locations on the back. The handwriting looks the same as that on the envelope so I guess it was either Annie or William BATEMAN.
These were sent quite a bit later than the postcards I have previously featured, the postmark on the envelope looks like 25 FEB 29, and I believe the monarch on the stamp is George V, so this would fit in with a date of 1929.
The other difference is the recipient, these were sent to my grandmother Dorothy Annie TROWER who would have been 16 years old at the time. Dorothy Annie was the daughter of Henry John and Dorothy May TROWER, making her William Joseph Henry BATEMAN's neice.
Three seems an odd number of photos to include, so I wonder if there were originally more. If anyone knows then please get in touch.

subset: commoncrawl


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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — The Panthers say their first order of business Sunday is slowing down Seattle's running game, which is triggered by quarterback Russell Wilson and spearheaded by running back Marshawn Lynch.
And they feel they have the pieces in place to do just that.
Panthers coach Ron Rivera says his team is better equipped to stuff the run this season after drafting 300-pound defensive tackles Star Lotulelei and Kawann Short with their first two picks and signing another giant space eater in Colin Cole to go along with veteran Dwan Edwards.
The Panthers also have Jon Beason back from an injury, helping solidify a solid linebacker corps that includes Luke Kuechly, the NFL's leading tackler last season, and Thomas Davis.
"We have four big stout physical football players up front that can help our guys and allow our linebackers to run," Rivera said.
The guy they'll be chasing primarily is Lynch.
And he's tough to stop.
Lynch has run for more yards than any running back in the league since November of 2011. He had 85 yards rushing on 21 carries in Seattle's 16-12 win over Carolina last October.
The Seahawks last year went to the en vogue zone read offense – a system where a mobile quarterback has the option to handoff or keep the ball as the play develops – something the Panthers used extensively the last two seasons with Cam Newton.
Lynch has been the beneficiary of that scheme.
Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said Lynch reported to training camp this summer in great shape and eager to pick up where he left off last season, rushing for more than 100 yards in eight of Seattle's final 10 games.
"He's looked fast, and agile, and strong and has prepared every single day full on," Carroll said. "... I haven't seen him like this. I haven't seen him this sharp going in to a season. He's really taking this seriously. That's not just like the last month or so, that's six months of preparation. He's really poured himself into to prepare for a great year."
Carolina's defense has experience defending the zone read in practice over the past two seasons facing Newton, but they haven't seen it much in games.
With more and more teams installing the zone read, Rivera said he and his staff spent a portion of the offseason meeting with college coaches – though he wouldn't say which ones – to get their thoughts on how to best defend it.
Still, Carolina struggled to defend it in their lone preseason loss at Philadelphia.
That's something Rivera attributed to "being stagnant" at the line of scrimmage and reacting instead of attacking.
"When the ball was snapped everybody was trying to see where the quarterback was going," Rivera said. "It was our first real shot against the zone read. But once we settled in and started to attack and do the things we are capable of, we were able to handle it a lot better. It was a good lesson for us to learn."
The key, Rivera said, might be the play of Lotulelei, their first-round draft pick from Utah.
Lotulelei struggled against the Eagles, but Rivera said he was outstanding the following week against Baltimore.
"I think that was kind of one of those things that was an awakening for him," Rivera said. "You'd like to see him continue to be effective inside, continue to push the pocket, hold the point of attack, hold the double team and let the linebackers run."
On Sunday, the Panthers will find out if they're good enough to stop Seattle's offense – and compete with one of the best teams in the NFC.
"There's excitement about the unknown," Rivera said. "There's excitement about what the potential is and what you hope to become."
NOTES: Panthers SS Mike Mitchell (calf) is doubtful for Sunday. Rivera said Friday if Mitchell can't play recently signed Quintin Mikell will get the start. ... WR Domenik Hixon (hamstring), defensive tackle Dwan Edwards (thigh) and guard Amini Silatolu (hamstring) are questionable, while LB Jon Beason (knee) and FB Mike Tolbert (hamstring) are probable for Sunday.


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STEVE LEWIS/Durango Herald
STEVE LEWIS/Durango Herald
The law-enforcement task force canvassing the Vallecito community for clues to the disappearance of 13-year-old Dylan Redwine has discarded the possibility that he ran away Nov. 19 from his father�s home north of the reservoir, La Plata County Sheriff�s Office spokesman Dan Bender said Wednesday.
�There�s a combination of factors,� Bender said. �There�s been the passage of time without any sightings; Dylan was not a visitor but had friends here; he has a history of staying in contact with his family and friends; and there�s been nothing on his cellphone record since he was reported missing.�
Twenty law officers on Wednesday continued their door-to-door visits and inspection of buildings that began Tuesday with the hope of finding someone with information who can help solve the mystery of Dylan�s disappearance.
The task force has officers from the Sheriff�s Office, Durango Police Department, FBI, Colorado Bureau of Investigation and the Bayfield Marshal�s Office.
A telephone tip line has been set up: 382-7511.
�The task force is gathering any form of information,� Bender said. �The information may not be applicable now, but could be in the future.�
Specifically, investigators would like to talk to anyone who was taking photos or shooting videos that show vehicles along the typical routes between Vallecito and Durango from 6 p.m. Nov. 18 to noon Nov. 19. That would include County Road 501 and Florida Road (County Road 240).
Anyone who can supply a copy of his or her photos or videos is asked to call the La Plata County dispatch center at 385-2900.
Three canine units belonging to La Plata Search and Rescue returned Wednesday to Vallecito to explore areas adjacent to the reservoir but not along the shore, Bender said.
A dive team from the New Mexico State Police used cadaver dogs, sonar and divers last weekend to explore an area near the reservoir dam that the dogs had signaled as being �hot.� Nothing unusual was found.
Bender said cadaver dogs don�t have to pass over every square foot of reservoir surface. The scents they are trained to detect emerge from the water, like smoke from a chimney, and dissipate, Bender said.
Dog handlers work into the wind to give the dogs the best opportunity to sniff out scents.
The story has received national attention and was featured on Nancy Grace�s show Wednesday night on CNN�s Headline News network.
Dylan was visiting his father, Mark Redwine, under court order during the Thanksgiving holiday. The parents divorced in 2007. Elaine Redwine moved with Dylan and his brother, Cory, 21, to Colorado Springs.
Mark Redwine alerted law enforcement about Dylan�s absence just before 6 p.m. Nov. 19, Bender said.
Mark Redwine made his first public appearance Tuesday night at a vigil in Bayfield. But when reached at his Vallecito home Wednesday morning, Redwine declined any possibility of more comment, saying he wanted the attention to stay on his son, not him. He declined to be formally interviewed.
He said a million things were running through his head about what could have happened to his son. He said he doesn�t think Dylan ran away.
He has nothing and no one to run away from, Mark Redwine said.
He said he will continue to stay in his house, saying he thought that was what would be best for Dylan. Mark Redwine�s brother also is staying with him.
Mark Redwine said Dylan had made tentative plans to meet friends at 6:30 a.m. Monday morning, but �nothing was etched in stone.� Bender said Dylan didn�t contact the friends then.
Mark Redwine said he had questioned why the 13-year-old would want to wake up that early in the morning.
Ryan Nava, 13, a friend of Dylan�s said in an interview Saturday with The Durango Herald that Dylan originally was going to Bayfield to visit his friends Sunday night but then changed that to meet them early Monday morning.
Mark Redwine said he was going to give Dylan a ride to his friends� house and tried to wake him up when he left Monday morning but said Dylan was �out like a light.�
The father said he had to go to Durango that morning to run errands and speak to his divorce lawyer.
The Vallecito area was quiet Wednesday morning with people walking their dogs and opening stores for the day, evidence that life goes on for the residents as authorities continue their investigation.
Authorities redirected the search for Dylan on Tuesday, and went door-to-door canvassing the neighborhoods after they used divers and sonar equipment to search Vallecito Reservoir.
About 150 people attended the vigil for Dylan on Tuesday night in Bayfield. Residents say they are still hoping he will return safely home.
�I want my gut to tell me that he�s still hiding out there, but my gut is telling me something more is going on,� said Vallecito resident Richard Scarbeary on Wednesday morning.
SHAUN STANLEY/Durango Herald


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I wonder if Matt continues his elevated play or if he starts to drop soon or just come down to earth somewhat. If it does stArt to happen how long before do we start talking asking for Danny to start?
amazing bounce back after the half.
Clippers putting on an exciting show! Keep the pedal to the metal, Clippers! Don't let the Pistons back in the game.
Mila and Ashton on kiss cam
IMO his play hasn't been "Elevated". Aside from 2 games where he was lights out from 3
he is playing pretty much on par with what we are paying him to play.
BEcause of injury he was playing piss poor the first 3/4ths of the season.
Jamal definitely not in rhythm, as to be expected
All Jamal needs is some more game time to get his rhythm back.
Good point. I definitely can see that. I'd like to see what Danny looks like with the starters for a bit if we can't get JJ back.
Danny getting better with rest. Can't wait until he gets in the starting unit when JJ returns.
Same stupid lineup from second quarter
Danny G fro thr33.
So glad we have Danny on the team. Great bingo by him!
I think it's time guys. Granger in the starting five please.
Danny keeps beasting while the Pacers keep losing. Thanks for the gift, Larry Bird!
Third time tonight they have passed to someone who wasn't looking! And why is Davis now offensively beyond inept?
Collison with a big thr33. Clipp3rs second unit struggling again.
At least the second team defense is looking better and Danny is playing great too.
I kind of like the toughness barnes bring to the starting lineup but danny is more skilled and longer
i'd like to see that 2nd unit with Hollins instead of Hedo. We need more defense/rebounding there.
This bench lineup needs more time to gel, but not at the expense of a good lead.
So many shaqtin a fools tonight
Not quite yet. Matt still looks better that Granger right now as
far as defense overall movement.
Granger is really becoming more impressive game by game, but
don't think he has proven enough to take over the starting job.
Turkoglu sucks
Granger danger!!!!
Danny G learning from the 4 point play master!
Danny>>>>>Matt. So sorry
Woot! Danny with a bingo plus one! Lol, Jamal is rubbing off on him.
I feel bad for Dudley but man Granger danger is a beast.
Granger really surprising me with how well he's played. He can really get his shot.
I think Matt is more athletic naturally but I think Granger is the better defender
Doc needs to figure out why Davis isn't succeeding so far and help him. He can't play center
All the talk earlier in the season was that he was looking old and washed up, but it looks like he still has plenty left in the tank.
Granger once averages 25 ppg. No way barnes could ever sniff that. Granger is better
Granger needs to start and Barnes ability to run the floor and get 50/50 plays is better served with the bench.
Dudley had his chance to play. Too bad he squandered his playing time.
CP3 time!
I think Danny is the better player overall and his time with Indy has made him a much better defender than he would have been if he spent his time somewhere else.
Who is guarding that corner spot??
Jerebko is ballin'.
Scrub of the night brought to you by the Los Angeles Clippers: Jonas Jerebko, PF
Finally Paul playing like it's 2012. Btw Jerebko has career high against us two years in a row FML.
I think it's those damn stretch fours that give us trouble
God we such at rebounding
I don't think starting Granger would be a great idea. He's one of our scorers off the bench. I think bench's ability to score, which is already pretty bad, would really struggle with Barnes instead of Granger as our backup SF.
Clippers only ahead by 6.
I was sure detroit wasn't getting 100 points this game but idk anymore...
Gotta secure that rebound. Box out instead of jumping for it
DJ needs to be a man and knock down some free throws.
Damn it DJ could have secured that
Shocked by how much the bench killed us.


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Yes I agree Thank You
Thanks for archiving these lecture and presentation.
Looking forward to the rest of the classes. Thanks Fred.
Good session Fred. You have an excellent presentation style that keeps the subject matter interesting.
I've never programmed PIC processors.
Have not implemented a microSD bootloader before. Here to learn.
Hello from Beaverton, Oregon.
Kind of nostalgic when Fred talks about bootloaders making things easier in the field.
first experience was with papertape bootloader into core. That made troubleshooting easier with access to something low level and was mostlikely still working!
hello to Montana.
better late than never for these courses.
Watching archived from Montana
hello all from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Thanks for archiving these presentations!
For those interested in the industry historical approaches to booting / bootloading, the opening lecture might benefit a little from some historical perspective. One succinct article on same can be found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting an excerpt of which follows:
Apple Inc.'s first computer, the Apple 1 introduced in 1976, featured PROM chips that eliminated the need for a front panel for the boot process. According to Apple's ad announcing it
"No More Switches, No More Lights ... the firmware in PROMS enables you to enter,
display and debug programs (all in hex) from the keyboard."
Good presentation, the use of color slides helps a lot to point out key areas
Thanks Fred - looking forward to day 2
catching up
good info
thank you Fred,
I dont have any bootloader projects in the works currently
Looking forward to learning somthing new
Picking up the class a bit late
Thanks Fred, I don't have much experience with PICs specifically but I think this is going to be an interesting topic.
Another late attendee.
Thanks for a very informative section.
A bit late today....thank you for having these classes.
That was very comprehensive. Thanks
nice explanation. Thank Fred.
I'm out folks.. See you tomorrow..
I certainly hope so, wthomas46..
Will do. Talk to you tomorrow.
LOL! that was Thanks LevitonDave! See, typos are common!
That's LevitonDave. Wear leveling won't be an issue in our application. (YEa, I read through the typo! :) Be sure to say hi to Dan Evans for me. Used to work with him at GE Security. C'ya all tomorrow.
standard not datandard :(
@mharkins - We had issues once we tried to get the high density cards operational. The driver we had didn't cleanly support the HD cards. It may have been something in the initialization sequence but we didn't have the datandard to reference so we were flying blind.
We were also looking at generic FAT vs FAT32 at the time. Our problem was wear leveling on the SD card.
LevitonDave, from what I see, the code I wrote is up to the SD 2.00 spec, so unless I ran into speed issues, there should be no issues with the higher capacity cards once I get the Fat 32 on there. Am I missing something? I've taken a SDHC card and partitioned, and formated a Fat16 partion and had no issues.
Beware the CCS Compiler. You must spend an extra $200.00 to get the PIC 18fXXXX files needed......
No problem - issues are making sure you can still reboot into some form of operational state if power is lost while actually reprogramming. This can get tricky especially since you may need to erase and write the reset vector to ensure things will work during the reprogramming.
IN the coming weeks are we going to learn any real programing the PIC chip
MAL is short for Microchip Application Libraries, mdsmdsmd.
yes, jcbacas.. make sure you choose a PIC with enough memory resources.
Yes, jcbacas.. Make sure you choose one with enough memory resources.
oops.. that would be LevitonDave.. fingers working as fast as my mouth :-)
Can't say I have DevitonDave.. Sounds like FUN :-)
I'll try to post the files early in the week for everyone.
Thanks Fred, will any of the DIP based 18F parts work with this ?
Fred - have you ever had to update the boot loader in the field? (App to update the boot loader and then re-enter the boot loader?) it can get real fun to avoid a brick.
hi, drw36.. Yep.. I see that it's a bit confusing.. I'll get the hang of this as the week progresses :-)
The start location is arbitrary.. It depends on how big your bootloader code is. Just so happens that our bootloader code is a bit less than 40K.
Fred, it would help reading the blog if you prefaced your responses with @questioner so we know which question you are answering. Often your response is several entries after the question. Thanks
Someone mentioned schematics and the such on EDTP's web site. I couldn't find it. Can one provide the URL?
What is MAL code?
Ahhh, you're talking about the secure digital cards. Yep, haven't dealt with them yet. Hopefully I won't have to!
As far as I know, the audio will be available..
The MAL code does not support 16F parts. Although, I do recall writing a serial (
RS232) bootloader a few years back. The 887 can write its own FLASH as I recall.
I just had to modify my SD card initialization for dealing with the SDHC cards. Only needed a couple of commands. Adding the Fat 32 support is a bugger though. When you buy cards off the street, anything I've found that was 2G or less came formated as Fat 16. SO that's what our initial product was released with. Now once again, things have changed! LOL
Thank you Fred! see you tomorrow!
@mharkins - Sorry for the confusion. You are fight the Fat16 limiation of 2 G is correct. However, the file system is not the issue for SD cards it is the protocol for the High Density. We have a Fat32 on a 2 G card and 4 G card that works just fine. However, it doesn't work with the HDSD cards. SD driver stack needs to be modified.
Thanks Fred!
Thanks Fred
I hope I got to all of the questions. Looking forward to "seeing" you all again tomorrow.
If your target micro can program its own FLASH, there is no reason why you could not port this code for another platform.
Can PIC16F887 be used with bootloader? If yes, are there any known references? Thank you!
Yep.. There is actually a define that lets you select the FAT version.
I kept it at FAT32 because I had plenty of FLASH and SRAM. I'll bet it would be smaller with FAT16.
Actually, it is an issue with SD card size. You can't formate >2G with Fat 16 unless you partition it with external utilities. I just didn't want to have to talk customers through that experience!
Actually the Fat16/Fat 32 is not the issue with SD card size. It's the protocol to support the HD capacity.
Hi Fred, I have a development kit with several components, can I use the bootloader without affecting the functionality of the components?, is this bootloader in C? can I use a boot loader from any other maker?
My bad Fat12.
SD cards only come formated as Fat 16 (2G and smaller), and Fat32 >2G
@aefelgate - there are two layers of retry - record and file. if you can accomplish it the record level is definitly better for dection and recovery but the protocol may not support it.
getting back in the stream..
You mean Fat12?
Yep.. I yacked a bit too much today.. My tongue caught fire during the presentation :-)
I'll pace it a bit tomorrow..
Fred - coud you pull out the Fat8/Fat16 to buy some size. However, there is no cignificant value in shrinking code below a page size boundry since the page will still be the limit.
Agree. Then a retry mechanism if the final image is not error free. We can do-over if the file gets corrupted at some point.
@LevitonDave Say hi to Dan Evans over there for me! :)
Don't know of one off hand.. I thought it would help to color coordinate the fields with the text.
@aefelgate - For this approach you will need to have some form of confirmation of receipt/success since the communications mechanism is inherently unreliable. (use to design equipment for the cellular industry)
Thanks for providing the source code and schematics at your web site.
The idea was to have enough FLASH left over for a large application to run in. The bootloader is a C app that pulls in lots of modules. I'm sure with some work we could reduce the size of the bootloader by eliminating unecessary modules.
Exactly what I need to worry about. I am doing a remote bootloader over a cellular connection. Will need to accept the hex stream via a cellular data connection (via PIC uart).
The SPI and SD interface is not so bad, but support of FAT16 and 32 adds a ton. In fact, I'm just now writing code to add the Fat 32 since its getting harder and harder to find 2Gig and smaller SD cards.
Yep.. www.microchip.com.. Download the MAL (Microchip Application Libraries. You'll see the MDD File System section, which holds all of the files.
Fred your not a dinosaur your a contemporary :)
Yep.. I'm a Dinosaur.. I'm old, but I still remember that project :-)
The SD file system is why the code is so big. The SD interface has lots of overhead and so does the file system. If you were to use some form of streaming interface, the size might be smaller.
Error recovery for streaming is a big problem that having the file local overcomes.
Not this week. However, if enough of you show interest, I'll be glad to present on that topic.
Got it :-)
Maybe in the future we'll do some Freescale stuff. The Code Warrior I know won't fight alongside a PIC :-)
Maybe emacs has also such a coloring feature?
It can be shared in a sense. You have to tell your application about the MDD File System files just like you have to tell the bootloader about them. It's the same MDD code but referenced from the application instead of the bootloader code.
JacquesB: this is prob. the price you pay for getting it from a standard media (microSD) and in standard format (HEX). I had experience with PIC bootloader and we got it in the 6 - 8K range but with a custom protocol using serial IF and a custom stream pre-processed from HEX ... however that also covered a clusters of micros ... "trees an a bus" :-)
Hi Fred - there is another trick if the PIC supports it. put the programming routine in ram and have it execute from there allowing flahs programming without having the execution/programmign conflict.
For the organizers: It would be useful if the posts would be nested (question-answer-comments) in the archived version of the presentation
OK, thanx Fred, I'll try this in the future with a DIP PIC-18
(Also Fred, slowing down a bit would be helpful! Thanx again!)
Also, thanx for the tip mRlu2012
Re: .hex file coloring. I just opened a .hex file using vim and I see that there is some coloring by default.
The source code and schematics will be available for download from the EDTP web site.
The secret with the audio is to pause it at the begining of the presentation, for about 10 seconds, to allow some buffering. From then on it works fine.
This bootloader scheme can be used with any PIC18 or higher micro.
The trick is to pick a pic that can reprogram its own FLASH under program control.
Hang in there I'm reading and will start answering first in first out...
Thanks for the presentation. See you all tomorrow.
Jayme: the same for me, Firefox worked better
Is there a tool to color the intel hex lines to be easier to identify the information in them?
My audio kept stop using IE, Firefox worked much better.
Thanks Fred. Looking forward to the remaining presentations.
Microchip MPLAB X
You say that the boot loader takes approx 40K. Its quite large compared with the Pic 18F47J13's 128K programm memory
Excellent presentation
Maybe for te rest of the week a new audio player could be found?
Thanks Fred! Excellent presentation today.
Thanks Fred! Great presentation.
Microchip PICs only.
Is there a website for these .h and .c files?
You mentioned one early in the webcast.
Thanks Fred. I seem to remember you used to produce an EPROM emulator a number of years ago. Still have one in a box some place!
Will there be any discusion of USB boot loaders ?
Thanks Fred! I want to make sure I have the right tools to build. I do have a couple of kits one from Freescale and Code Warrior 10 software. Will this be enough?
Good presentation. High information content.
Thanks! Great Entry level explanation.
See you tomorrow
Thanks, Fred.
Great topic and presentation.
Maybe a little too fast..too bad we can't use 50 minutes of the hour.
Well done.
Thanks Fred. Looking forward to the rest of the week.
Thank very much.
Excellent - thanks Fred, Rich, & DigiKey
Fred, Great explantion of a boot loader!
why APPLICATION_ADDRESS starts at xA000? And how PIC controller knows that it should start at xA000?
why bootlader so big? Are it's due strait C implementation?
Thanks, Fred. Great intro!
Thanks Fred,
Excellent Presentation
Thanks Fred.
can the Fat file system in the boot loader be shared with the application code, or does it need to be duplicated?
I'm here..Hope you enjoyed today's presentation..
*thanks :)
Thank You Fred!
Thank you!
Thanks for the info. It is always good to have the "Zen" explained about how all the parts hang together.
Thanks Fred & Rich!
Great Presentation! Good pace!
Great class! See you tomorrow.
thanks fred and rich
Thanks, RichNass.
THank you Fred.
Thank you Fred and Rich.
Is the source code available from a download/ftp site?
Whqat PIC other than PIC 18F47J13 can be used for this? any in DIP package?
Thanks Fred & Rich
Thanks a lot. Very good lecture.
thans Fred it's a great show.
Thank you Rich and Digikey
Great job
thank you Fred
Excellent presentation today, Fred! Thanks.
Like a fire hose
Thanks for the lecture!
thank you Fred for today's presentation
thank you Fred!
Thank you Fred!
*************** Slide 34 ***************
@mdsmdsmd - oops ;)
*************** Slide 32 ***************
*************** Slide 30 ***************
*************** Slide 29 ***************
It's not for Intel, it was designed by intel. There is also a motorola defined format but it's not used as much.
*************** Slide 28 ***************
*************** Slide 27 ***************
@MazianLab - Everybody uses this Intel format. It is not unique to Intel micros.
*************** Slide 26 ***************
*************** Slide 25 ***************
*************** Slide 24 ***************
This HEX File FORMAT is for Intel. Is it any differnces for other manufactires?
*************** Slide 23 ***************
are HDSD cards structured the same or would the address need to change?
*************** Slide 22 ***************
*************** Slide 21 ***************
*************** Slide 20 ***************
*************** Slide 19 ***************
*************** Slide 18***************
*************** Slide 18 ***************
*************** Slide 17 ***************
*************** Slide 16 ***************
*************** Slide 15 ***************
@richw42 - don't think it was actual code... just a generic illustration that one may do something like that... ;)
Audio troubles: In my case it appears that Skype was the problem (WinXP SP3, both Firefox or IE, same symptoms, both working now after I killed the Skype ... but it could have been something else ..)
*************** Slide 14 ***************
*************** Slide 13 ***************
*************** Slide 12 ***************
hard to find 2G cards now days!
yep no false returned
*************** Slide 11 ***************
*************** Slide 10 ***************
@richw42: hold that thought and mention it again when Fred comes onto the chat
Good catch, @richw42
*************** Slide 9 ***************
Bug. If if statement is false, there is no return statement.
@rajman: audio is not downloadable. But it is archived on the Design News web site
*************** Slide 8 ***************
Learning bootloaders in general. open to any project any PIC, etc
Yes, no buttons, no display, program update is delivered on RS-485.
Hello all, please is there a way to download and save the audio after the class? And are there possible contacts that can be followed after the event?
Can we listen to the audio later on today, or is this a live one time shot?
Bummer, takes me 25 minutes to drive home. Thanks for the reply MazianLab.
I did some in the past , I just want to see other way to do it
@mdsmdsmd: thanks for the help
It takes around 45 min, then Fred going to answer the questions.
Slide #7
BrokenRotor: it'll go about 25-30 minutes today
*************** Slide 7 ***************
*************** Slide 6 ***************
@justtheretolearn: is it possible your company has blocked audio? We often get that
Planning to use on next project.
How long does this class run today, anyone know?
No specific project at this time but have 3 Pic kits two antiques and one current would like to break the seal on this one and play with it, .... thought this seminar might come in handy since I'm more of a hardware type.
I need to implemnt a boot loader for a Renesas R8C processor, through an SD card interface so looking for ideas.
Hello Fred,
My project is to do a remote bootloader for a PIC18F2620 over a cellular connection.
Haven't built a bootloader, so I'm very interested in what Fred has to say!
*************** Slide 5 ***************
Slide #5 now
Reuse Microchip examples as much as possible!
************* Slide 4 **************
Still on SLIDE #2
Still om SLIDE #2
audio is ok, I used tablet & PC here, both okay. But from corporative firewalled PC doesn't work, so may be reason.
Right click on audio bar there is an audio driver you can download... might help unless your blocked
Have refresed and log out and back in still no audio
proxy, javascripts blocking audio
Audio is fine here, but I've had to reload the page in the past. Might try that.
no audio
If you're having audio issues, please refresh your browser
sound is fine for me
No Audio
fine for me, clear audio
Try clicking on play mine keeps coming and going but finally appears to have stable audio.
Yes, lecture has been started 4 min ago, and sound is clear.
Ok, I'll look up the Archive playback later.
@donnb - what "missing pics" are you talking about?
what with the sound it's not working
no sound
I cant get the audio prompt when I click the play button but nothing after that
Audio is blocked at work.
This is archived for those with blocked audio. Maybe you can get it when you get home.
Looks like I'll have to wait for the archive, maybe I can listen at home tonight.
Has the lecture already begun? I can't hear the lecture if it has, just the canned sound bit from Blog Talk Radio
My audio is OK
I don't have audio ...
in powerpoint viewer 2010 the missing pics don't show as missing. but in open office and older microsoft
viewer pics show up as missing. Look a slide number 3. Its obvious something is missing.
Sounds working good here.
Audio is blocked here too.
My place has blocked the audio also.
I have to repeatly hit the play button - weird! Anyone else?
Hmm.. My powerpoint title slide does not match what Fred just read.
Blog Talk Radio csound bit works fine... can't wait for the rest LOL
Audio is clear.
Nice. Audio is blocked here at work.
you need to go to above the chat and click on play to get the audio
audio coming
No audio
Hi from Bulgaria!
good afternoon, everyone
have chat - need sound
Audio works... had to click the play button...
Hi All.
Good Audio here
hi you guys
Thunderbirds is a 1966 animated movie!
Hello everybody!
hello from Simsbury CT
have sound!
easy men
And here we go!!
try to refresh if it is not showing up
How do I logon?
Hey Don H from S'cuse. I'm in East Syracuse off 298
All slides good here in CA
Hello guys
Good day!
It's time and still no sound bar
Thunderbirds Are Go!
Howdy from North Texas!
Hello from Greensboro, NC
Hi DonH, This is another Don H from Syracuse.
Monday's deck renders good in OpenOffice, but I have some issues with other days. Especially scaling of graphics and overlapping image areas.
Hello from Casper, WY
Hello All from Pleasant Prairie, WI. All slides have pics.
hello all, from edmonton, alberta
Good morning all from CA
Hello from Torrance , CA
Hello from Durham, NC
hi all
Greetings from Arizona
@LevitonDave Portland, Oregon
Hi BrokenRotor. It's nice to have somebody aboard who is colder than me
All the slides are fine for me. I checked in both the PP Viewer and in openoffice.
Hi all from Minnesota. This is my first online class.
thanks EdB_Vt
@richnass - I viewed the slides in PowerPoint Viewer 2007, all images are present, unlike what @donnb is seeing.
Hello from Las Cruces, New Mexico
coming up
Almost every slide has a blank space for a picture.
3,5,7,8,9,11,12, etc.
@richnass.... slides 4. 6..on closer examination it seems that the text is supposed to be grayed out except for the current subject.
where in Alaska?
Hi folks, greetings from Houston.
Greetings from Mass. Glad to be inside today!
hello from alaska
Boy is it cold in NJ today.
@ucschmidt: which slide #'s are you referring to?
hi again
Hello from Milwaukee!
Some of the text on some slides is unreadable
Greetings from Midland TX
Hello from Montreal
Are the pictures missing in your presentation for today?
Hello from cloudy and cold Mayfield Hts. Ohio; home of Rockwell Automation.
Hello from sunny Albuquerque.
Hello from Toronto
Good Morning
Evening! from Cape Town
Hello from Texas
@LevitonDave, Thank you!
Less than 60 mins to go.
@Anatoliy1086 - Good luck with that.
@LevitonDave, No, I am not at this moment. But, I am working on it!
Hello from Huntsville, Al
Good morning! from San Jose~
@Anatoliy1086 - Just curious, you work for the big high tech employeer out there (multiple campuses)?
@LevitonDave, Hillsboro seems OK, very light fog and its going away now.
@Anatoliy1086 - I'm in Tualatin and commute from Beaverton. Has teh fog lifted there yet?
Good afternoon everyone.
@richnass - I may have to review part of this one as a meeting came up that might cause me to miss a few minutes in the beginning. I'll answer all questions as I can.
@LevitonDave, Hillsboro
drnetwork-- Colorado Springs, CO
@Anatoliy1086 where in Oregon?
Hello from Oregon
hi all,
Good Morning everyone
Pretty active discussion already. Download the slides before the class starts at 2:00 EST. At that time, the player should start on its own. If it doesn't re-load the page.
Good evening from Iasi, Romania
Good Morning from San Jose, CA.
It's 44°F Foggy and a High of 63°F.
Good morning
Day 1 comin up.
Hi from Alabama. A Hashish Free Zone!
Hi there from California. Partly cloudy at 51 degrees F.
Good Afternoon from Sunny Boston!
Hi everybady, I am sherlock in Vancouver.
Good Morning from frosty northeast Tennessee.
@mharkins - Where in Oregon?
Hello from Brazil
Morning from a foggy Portlandia.
Hello to all
Good morning from Scottsdale
Goodmorning from Chicago
Howdy folks! :)
@jackqingz - How's the weather in BC?
Godd morning from British Columbia, Canada.
Good morning from Oregon
Regards from Mexico.
Good Morning from GA
@LeoSieben - To be clear, the text above will change to the red graphics only when the lecture starts. For the most part in the past, that happens right at the scheduled time.
@LeoSieben - The lecture is audio only. The audio is through this web page. The box above that says "The audio player will load automatically ..." will change to an animated graphics box. Someone will make a post below, commenting that they have audio. If you don't see the text above change to red graphics, reload the page. Either the lecturer, or someone in a post will indicate the slide number through the lecture
My personal preference is to convert the presentation to a PDF file, and make notes directly in the PDF file for future reference.
I got the silde deck and can view it via Open Office (Microsoft Office is beyond what I can afford).
At 1400 EST what is the process to view the lecture?
Greetings from Vermont, 21 degF, some sun through the clouds.
Good morning from Yorktown, NY.
Good Morning from Mobile, AL
Downloaded the slides - looks like there is lots of code to discuss, but I did not see a link for where I might be able to download the source code. If you have full source code for this week's example project, can you please post a link. Thanks!
I am glad the power points are up so I have all weekend to study up.
The time is not clear .You have mentioned 2.00 p.p. EST.My timing is GMT +5.30.Please clear.


text:
I am torn about this. I don't want to trade collison. He took a paycut to come here and win. I'd rather trade our overpaid pieces like barnes and dudley
So who makes the numbers work? Barnes?
Very interesting. Obviously we don't really want to get rid of Collison but as I've said before you can't get something for nothing.
I like this. Part of the reason our secondary interior defense looks so bad is because our wings get burned. Felton I think will be a downgrade, but Shump could help a lot there. Of course, the secondary bigs ARE terrible, so it's only going to help so much. We still need another big. Maybe the Knicks will throw in Tyson Chandler for Mullens.
Holy ****!
We have to do this. I'm not a fan of Raymond Fatfuck, but Shump is a stud and he'd flourish with a real coach and real team.
Adding Mullens and Green makes the salaries add up sufficiently... would the Knicks be that stupid?
Please be that stupid, Knicks.
That must be a rhetorical question.
Not a big fan of this trade I like shump but losing collision would hurt our chemistry. And this trade doesn't solve our real problem of acquiring a real big man that can play valuable backup minutes. I say no to this trade
Haven't watched Shumpert in the pros...does he play SF because he is listed as a SG and I thought that was what he played at Ga Tech. Rebounding numbers are bad so that suggest he is playing SG with Knicks. If he is a SG, where does he get minutes unless this means JJ is out for the rest of the season?
Throw Kmart in as well and I'll do it
Kmart, Felton and shumpert for Collison and Mullens, green
I can hear Doc now... "Byron Mullens is like Bargnani at 10% of the cost... he's a bargain!"
EDIT: Just realized how hilariously inappropriate it is that 'Bargnani' is almost an anagram of 'bargain'
Would be sad for Collision who lost money to go to a potential winner team.
RealGM @RealGM
Update: Knicks, Clippers Discuss Iman Shumpert, Ray Felton For Darren Collison, Reggie Bullock Deal
I would be sad too, but atleast he gets to start on a potential playoffs Teams
Ooh... I like this one!
See I was all for it, but adding Reggie to Collison, I just don't know about that.
Wtf I'm not trading dc for this crap!! We need dc for the playoffs and need dudley out of here
I really don't even want Felton, just bring back Wayns to hold down the back up guard role. Atleast chemistry wouldn't fade.
Am i missing the point here? Don't we need SF and Center help? What do we need with another SG and PG at this point. Granted with JJs injury, but still.
I think he can play 2 and 3.
Doc better not throw in Reggie or he is pure trash. That is a massive over pay for Shumpert we should be getting more for taking Felton.
Felton sucks as a starter, but he might be better as a backup. Shumpert would be a good fit though. Hopefully we can get the Knicks to throw in K-Mart too!
Shump can play both the 2 and the 3.
That's awful for Collison, took a huge pay cut to be a Clipper. Rather just give them Bullock
A Clippers insider on Twitter is saying that the deal will actually be Collison and Mullens for Shumpert and Beno Udrih, FWIW.
If that is the deal than I would defiantly do it.We still have a open spot to sign a big to a 10 day contract.Not the perfect situation but Shump is the athletic defender we need to guard Lance Stevenson,DWade,Paul George,Westbrook,etc.
Jj has had the health of a 36 years old Billups. So I think doc just wanted a 2/3 combo
I hope the Clipper insider is right or I'm going to rage. Taking on Felton who makes 4 mil each of the next 2 years would need heavy compensation for DC basically being an expiring.
Noooooo! Not Reggie!
I like the Collison/Mullens for Shump/Udrih trade much more.
According to Chad Ford, the Bullock-for-Felton part of the rumored deal doesn't work under the cap and (unsurprisingly) the dumbass Knicks are pushing for it without knowing the rules.
I don't want Felton unless there are picks coming we keep Bullock get Shumpert and their bigs.
I'd give up one of Collison or Bullock for Shumpert, but not both. I'd only take Felton if we were dumping Barnes and Mullens in process.
Very well put, I agree.
i like shumpert, he's the long athletic taller defender to guard the conleys, parkers, curry's, westbrooks of the NBA. Not to mention he can guard the Hardens and Ellis's of the NBA.
Also he can create his own shot and get to the rim.
I think also come playoff time he has the potential to be more valuable to the team than Collison.
Wow Darren came here to win. But I always tell myself, NBA is a business, so don't get attached to players.
Felton's contract is horrible for a team that we have we need money going to other positions other than PG with Paul. PG back ups should be 1mil contracts or rookie deals.
Damn! Damn! Damn!
How does this help fix the SF need? I guess nobody wants to take Dudley or Barnes, which is expected, but trading Bullock would hurt depth at that position. In addition, Collison has been a pretty solid player for the Clippers, so overall I'm not so sure about this trade proposal. I suppose that Shumpert would have helped last night as Doc had CP3 & DC in for a good chunk of the 4th, whereas a taller guard like Shumpert would have helped. Plus Shumper is a solid rebounder, though a less than 40% FG shooter, but a decent from deep at 34.7% this season.
So I guess if Doc is going to go with a smaller line-up much of the time, this could be a solid deal. Added a poll- would you pull the trigger on this trade?
Are we going to make ANY deals or is Doc just going to keep shooting everything down? It's plainly obvious that this roster isn't winning anything come playoff time....
Not so much this. Shumpert is closer to Thabo Sefolosha on offense than a player that can consistently create his own shot and get to the rim. Actually Dudley even this year is a better offensive player than him.
Shumpert would be acquired really for his defense if this were to happen, he doesn't really score much or create much.
I don't get a warm and fuzzy vibe from this roster and think a shakeup can only help.
Shump and Felton makes about $6M combined this season while Collison makes about $2M so the Clips would have to add either Barnes or Dudley and maybe one other player to make it work. I would definitely not include Reggie in that trade.
Shump and Udrih for Collison + filler makes more sense salary wise. If the Knicks are really trying to dump Felton, Clips needs to ask for a draft pick to go along with him.
Collison has been good this season and filled in nicely for CP3. He also took a hometown discount to play for the Clips so I'd hate to see him go. However, Shump is under contract for 2 more seasons at a good price so he can be a nice piece for the team in the long run. He can also flourish under Doc and it seems like Doc can get the most out of his players. Except Dudley and Mullens that is lol.
I would just prefer a deal where Felton is not involved, too many PG/SG's unless Shumpert will be played at SF which is weird.
Hopefully we just don't make "any" deal just to make one. We need to try and make one at our positions of need, SF and a back up C.
Unfortunately, it's going to be very difficult with what we have as trade bait and our current salary (tax) restrictions.
While I think we need to make some type of a trade, I just don't think DC for Shump will help very much.
We'd need a backup point, and Felton could fill that role. Only thing is, his contract stinks. If the knicks would take some our dead weight back... any 2 of Mullens/Barnes/Dudley I'd be prepared to absorb Felton.
He can play SF when Doc goes small, but the majority of Shumpert time is at the SG spot. Really need a real SF and a back up C.
I'm personally a fan of this deal. Shump provides the defense at 2 that redick and crawford don't. Not a massive fan of felton but think he'd do us ok behind CP and doc
But point taken that SF and C are our main weaknesses and maybe that's what we should pursue


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Am I the only one here that's not that big on Wilson Chandler?
No, I think he's totally overrated.
He is the one that looks like a JV now.
Chandler may not be the ideal small forward, but let me ask you two questions. Do you think he's better than Dudley? Do you think trading Dudley and getting Chandler would make this team better? I think thats the issue for me. I really dont want the best SF, Lebron, or even one in the top five. As long as he can provide some offense and ok D I would love that
If you really think about it though, are there really even that many quality SF's that will be free agents this summer? Hayward (Who some other team will overpay for) Pierce, Marion, Granger, Gay, Deng then it just goes downhill from there.
Well, as we see from the factions here on how we view Dudley it would be hard to say what we all consider a drop off from that amazing group you lsited. I'm curious what don't you like from Chandler, and who would you rather like?
We can't get Chandler for Dudley, so any scenario in which Chandler is coming involves a more valuable player than Dudley going out. No, not Dudley plus scrubs to make contracts work. There's no incentive for Denver to take Dudley for Chandler, actually not even Jamal. If we want Chandler, were thinking more "is Chandler more capable than Crawford" because if Denver actually needed a player like Jamal, that is who it would require, not Dudley.
So yea, Chandler is certainly better than Dudley, but that really doesn't help us.
I really don't know. I doubt we are fixing our SF situation anytime soon but I want a guy like Tony Allen. I like Deng too even though he's probably too expensive.
That really isn't the problem. The problem is why would Denver downgrade their SF position to Dudley? What is the incentive.
In doc we trust........
Do you guys think we will trade DUDley or do you think doc sees something that we all don't?? And if so do you think Utah would take him for Hayward?
If we're trading dud sf to sf i'll probably go for marvin williams. Dude is tearing it up on 3's and board. He's not bad on defense too
I've been wanting that big SF that can also play the 4 and mentioned Williams before, so I agree about him.
There's always a but though....Marvin Wiliams is (or would have been) an option for the off-season when his contract expires, of course we already also signed Matt Barnes for 3 years and killed some flexibility there. Williams would have been a nice $4M type signing as a SF/PF, but if we have both Barnes and Dudley, it would,make no sense to be investing $11M on three average (currently two below average) SF's. Williams makes $7.5M right now though, so that's not really an option.
He's also expiring, so if the Jazz don't want him back, it makes no sense for them to trade him for the longer contracts the Clippers would offer and lose their flexibility in order to acquire mediocre players (Dudley/Barnes).
That team is falling apart, 10 days from now they could decide to pack it in for the season. Dudley represents a 2mil per year savings vs. Chandler.
Give them a pick or Reggie Bullock.
Gallo is their guy and they have a lot of money invested in him. Dudley is a more complimentary type piece, representing a low cap number for a true back up and he's more versatile being able to play 2-4 spots. He's also a guy who will accept his role as a bench player.
If you can figure out a 3 team trade that gets rid of Miller and brings them a similar talent, it's an added motivation.
That's a decent production drop for a team not close to luxury to try and save $2M (actually less because of Bullock's contract). They can pair Chandler and Gallo at the 2/3 in the future since Chandler is actually a 2/3 and their current starting SG is Randy Foye.
Clippers don't have picks to trade right now, and while Reggie sounds nice, they have these guys on their bench:
Jordan Hamilton, 6'7 SF, 23 years old, 26th pick
Evan Fournier, 6'6 SG, 21 years old, 20th pick
Quincy Miller, 6'9 SF, 21 years old, 2nd round pick playing
If they trade Dudley and Reggie for Chandler, because of Reggie's contract, they actually only save like $800-900K and they add more of a log jam (2 more players) to the wing where they already have (outside of Chandler): Foye, Hamilton, Fournier, Miller.
I don't know man, don't see the incentives here.
might work
Why would the nuggets make that trade?
they're not making the playoffs anymore, might as well get something for next year
I understand the shedding salary part but how is Thornton and Jimmer anywhere near the similar talent of either Chandler or Miller. They'd be able to get way more somewhere else.
Their best player is Lawson, so why trade for a PG and small SG in Thornton? If they want to get something for next year, don't you think draft picks, or young players that fit into their roster would make more sense as opposed to just random guys from Sacramento?
If I'm saying what is a trade the benefits Denver with Chandler going out? What Denver needs to do is actually trade one of Hickson or Faried. They really shouldn't have signed Hickson, such a stupid move. Denver would be looking for a trade to get a better offensive big man. So think someone like Greg Monroe.
Denver would probably be more inclined to do a move like:
Chandler / Hickson
Monroe / Jerebko and someone like Bynum
Detroit moves Smith to PF, plays Chandler at SF and Hickson is their backup PF/C. Better spacing and roster balance, and they don't sign Monroe to a big contract that makes no sense if they still keep Smith.
Denver gets a solid 23 year old future big man. They run a front-court rotation of Monroe/McGee/Faried because Monroe can play PF and C. That's a trade Denver would be looking for. They won't be looking for trades primarily around mediocre SF's or SG's. If they bring a wing, they would be looking to bring one that is better than their current crop.
i was thinking more of jimmer for andre. i just used thorton for his salary and because denver needs a better sg.
As much as I would hate see Collinson go, his value could not be higher than right now. Include Dudley and a draft pick with Collinson and that should get us a solid starting small forward
What about backup PG?
How about Collinson and Dudley for Farmar, Jordan Hill and Wesley Johnson. Offensively both Dudley and Johnson are limited but Johnson is a solid wing defender. Plus we get a solid back up center. Lakers get their young cheap point guard (reason why Lakers do this trade)
^ Dude, your trade ideas are pretty unrealistic... not to mention, terrible.
I wouldn't want any of those guys.
Love to have Jordan Hill...maybe next year.
Isn't he injury prone though? Never been a big fan of his.
Our SFs haven't been terrible the last few games, certainly better than Wes Johnson. There is a decent chance one or both of them get their crap together and stay consistent before end of the season; a stretch of home games and the all star break might them give work out some of the issues they've been having.
^ Totally agree. The only way is up.
mullens for jordan hill, the rest a big no.
What do you guys think about Trading for Kaman in my opinion we need some big man help and he knows the fundamentals, I did a trade machine and dudley for him and Shawne williams as a throw in works, if they want more we can throw in a pick too.
I'd go with no on that lobcity. A) why does everyone want the trash on the lakers bench? That team is so awful we shouldn't want anything from them. B) why do people want ex clippers back all the time. That dudes gone. Gordon's gone. We don't want do overs with these guys.. Move along and find new players.
It's not really about picking Lakers scrap it's picking up needs. Jordan Hill is a good player to have off the bench, and I think Wes Johnson isn't half bad. I'd pass on Farmar.
I liked glimpses of Wes when he was with the Suns, but think it's risky. He has shown some decent individual defense on a team with no defense. He is shooting slightly above average from deep, and has a good motor.
Jordan Hill I would take in a heartbeat. He's the perfect back up big for our needs. He can play either spot, he hustles. I don't think they would trade him to us for anything short of a pick (honestly that probably wouldn't do it either).
Kaman is fine if he is willing and lakers will make a trade, but Hill is better, younger I'm not a laker fan but i like this guy in our bench.
Kaman is a perfect back up big for us as a "win now" team.
Kaman is capable of putting up 20-25 points 10 rebounds in
a game. (Although not every game)
We don't have one backup big who can put up half that at this
Kaman will add a scoring threat with crawford, and collison
off the bench, we might just have the best bench in the league.
He's not a good team defender, the Lakers have allowed more points with him on the floor than off. The Suns were significantly better on defense with Dudley on the floor last year than with Johnson.
I think people of overvalue the on the ball man to man part of modern defense compared to off the ball defense, help defense, making rotations and team defense in general.
Kaman would be great, problem is he never plays. If he has a muscle ache he won't play for three games.
I agree he's too unreliable, not only does he miss a lot of time he's inconsistent and makes bad decisions when he does play. I wouldn't give up any assets for Kaman, not even Dudley or Bullock. If we could get him for absolutely nothing he'd be worth a look, but that is about it.
What sucks is probably the two best fits/best chance to obtain are Brand and Kaman. I really don't think we'd bring either guy in even if it's a great deal.
Kaman would be great for us right now but I'd rather get Sacre from the Lakers. Just straight up offer of Bullock for Sacre. He's not as talented but he doesn't come with the baggage and his contract is as cheap as it gets.
Kobe just said something about kaman falling asleep on the bench all the time and being the most unmotivated player on the team. Let's go get him guys!!!!
Kobrick shitting on his teammates again? Wow, what a surprise.
Maybe Doc can "save" him like Jamison
I see what you are saying, but it's like when we had Vinny as a coach and there is no defensive system in place. It can make a good defensive player look completely awful. It's usually salty vets that can get past terrible or non-existent defensive schemes. He deters dribble penetration, he boxes out and goes for rebounds. Without losing too much if any offensively in comparison to Duds. He is also cheap and could possibly be had, for Duds since Dantoni has worked with Duds before.
Jamison was pretty good last year, sucks he decided that this was year he wanted to become old and completely washed up, but he's 37 and you're always pushing your luck with anyone that old. I thought it would be funny if passed David Robinson and George Gervin on the career scoring list, but that isn't happening.
Not trying to pick on you, but this is a line of reasoning I read from fans and just don't like. I never understood why people think the ability to have good games once in a while but then be inconsistent and inefficient most of the time is a positive.
Maybe for a rookie because then you see potential to attain consistency, but for a contender, you're looking more for consistent play (relatively consistent that is) from any player who will be a regular than for the ability to explode one game then suck for the next 4 games.
Again, not trying to pick on you, but I see too many people categorize players and give them some perceived extra value based on the fact that they can here and there explode for a big game, even if the players standard day to day production isn't even good. Just so weird to me.
It's like "yea. Jeff Green on a regular night is below average efficiency, mediocre on defense and on the glass, but watch out he can score 43 pts against a guy like Lebron once a season" (no offense meant to Jeff Green btw), so he's worth the price one pays for him now because of that once a season game. I don't know, to me the ability to explode is valuable when your regular production is already up to par, not when you are inconsistent and below average.
Anyways, just a rant because I read that line of reasoning a decent amount and it puzzles me.
Kaman has many little things that take away from his effectiveness but his biggest issue has always been turnovers. As a backup on the a Clippers, you would want to instill a minimal dribbling and no trying to create plays rule for Kaman because it is trouble. He's turning it over 1.9 times a game in 17.3 minutes. For better reference, that is 4 turnovers per 36, or almost 20% of his possessions. Really though? Why? No, really, why?
Now in theory that rule seems to make sense, but since that one year he made the All-Star team, Kaman has decided he is an offensive option and he hasn't regressed from that thinking, so he's taken 16-17 FGA a per 36 minutes for the past 5 seasons and over different teams.
I wonder of any of his coaches have ever spoken to him about it, though I guess that's why he's been moving around lately. Kaman needs to focus on defense and rebounding, and then just finishing at the rim and hitting open mid-range shots. He's be like a 12-13 pts/36 player taking about 9-10 FGA/36, where he should be to be valuable to a good team. He needs to forgot about being a post up option because he's just not effective enough there despite it making him seem like a better player.
He will be more valuable and desired by teams if he played smarter basketball on offense and focused on defense, but I don't know if he actually cares.
I agree with @Agent0, even though I'm probably one that does it with certain players. I think context is important. Kaman we've seen and know for the most part who he is. There are other players that we have seen them in certain contexts, but never really maximize their potential. I don't really think the same for players over 30. I think that vast majority of players over 30 are who they are and that's not going to get better, maybe regression if anything (Duds).
Jeff Green I think has been playing out of position a large part of his career. He is a Small forward in my opinion that has gotten a ton of minutes at the 4. Sitting either behind Durant or Pierce, that is a tough act to beat.
The outliers are just that and I agree with you completely. I would like to get Jeff Green, but wouldn't expect him to be KD. I do think that a better situation can show him to be a much more consistent player. We've seen Barnes (even though he has had a bad year) play much more consistent (offensively) than I could remember (at least last season). I think a realistic expectation for production of any player we sign under 30, would be on the higher end of his career averages. Taking into account minutes played, and first and second years and any injuries. With all that said, Dudley would be proving me wrong anyways.
Kaman can ball like We saw yesterday against a great bulls Defense, second only behind the pacers in Points allowed. He was 13-23 with 27 pts 10 rebounds 3 assists 2 blocks in 28 mins while Sacre and Kelly the starting 4-5 were 1-11 with 2 points and 6 rebounds in a combined 36 mins, D'antonis an a hole and doesn't play him, could be a good thing for us that means he is more fresh and not all wore down.
Yep he was lying down in the lakers bench but that was after he get his 6 foul and everybody is gone (fouled out and injured) and he was the one left in the bench, that is the game where sacre got his 6 fouls but were allowed to continue playing because they have only 4 player left and they still won the game LOL!
Does anyone remember Ricky Davis and his cannabis cloud?
We will never trade with the LAL. Kaman hates us and would be less than motivated. The Dallas folks said Kaman was great at pick and pop but was a disaster when he put the ball on the floor.He loves to put it on the floor. He was turnover prone. His defense is lacking.
Seeing that Hollins is improving every game and is showing toughness, at least has much as he has, and passion he may be a better fit. Brand is too expensive and we have Hedo who's doing fine at PF. He could play SG I guess.
2 With Sasha we have six guards
3 We have two centers.
4 If DJ gets hurt we start Hollins. His per 3 min stats - 6.1 fouls/36 min
We can't trade a SF and not get a SF otherwise we have only one. We can't start Hollins. We have a full roster with Sasha and we're running out of cap room. We won't use Bullock in the PO's unless he takes a quantum leap. He hasn't been used even when Dudley is getting beaten defensively. JD however has been playing better D.
If Doc's dog were to miraculously eat Mullens' contract and we bought Jamison one of those Low T products to bring back that zip good, but it's a Ricky Davis pipe dream.
DJ is up for a new contract and CP and BD's cash, like bunnies, will be multiplying.
It seems our best option is Lamar vet's min, drop Sasha. If we swap JD for a SF that's fine.


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It took a jury less than two hours to decide that Donnie Council should die for torturing and murdering an elderly Bath woman in 1992. Nearly 20 years after being sentenced to death, though, Council is still awaiting execution.
Council, 47, was found guilty in 1996 of the murder of Elizabeth Gatti on Oct. 9, 1992. He was also found guilty of criminal sexual conduct, first-degree burglary, kidnapping, administering poison and grand larceny.
Gatti was tied up on the floor of her basement for hours after ingesting a mix of household cleaners fed to her by Council, according to previous reports. Prosecutors said Council assaulted, raped and poisoned the 72-year-old widow and then ransacked her home in search of money.
Council is the only inmate from Aiken County currently on death row. Second Circuit Solicitor J. Strom Thurmond Jr. said the appeals process is what takes so long for executions to be carried out.
Capital cases are 'two-phase'
"For the victims' families, it's a 20-year wait, in some circumstances, only to find out that the case has been reversed," he said. "It's a daunting endeavor for all parties – prosecutors, defense lawyers, victims."
Thurmond explained that a capital case is a "two-phase procedure."
"There's the guilt phase – did the person do it?" he said. "And if the jury finds a person guilty, there's a penalty phase, where the jury decides what the punishment is, either life imprisonment ... or the imposition of the death penalty."
If a case is reversed in the guilt phase, it would be a "do-over," according to Thurmond.
"If the case is reversed in the penalty phase, you will then have a new trial for sentencing purposes," he said, "which is somewhat of a legal fiction because you would still have to call all the witnesses as you would have in the guilt phase to explain to the jury how we got to this point."
Retrying a case is difficult, he said, especially years after the fact.
"What happens after a case is reversed after a long period of time and you have to start over, you've got a decade or more of faded memories, police officers who have retired, witnesses who have died," he said. "In many cases when a capital case is reversed, the case is pled to a life sentence because it's too daunting a task to have to do it again."
Stages of appeals
The first stage of appeals after someone has been sentenced to death is the direct appeal, "where a subsequent set of attorneys for the defendant would seek to raise errors of law, either in the guilt phase or the penalty phase, and have the case reversed," Thurmond said. That appeal can go through the state Supreme Court, at which point either losing side can petition for a writ of certiorari to the U.S. Supreme Court.
"Once all those are exhausted, you then get to jump over and go through something called post-conviction relief, which is where another set of attorneys then allege that the defendant's trial counsel was not effective in his preparation of the case, either in the guilt phase or the penalty phase," Thurmond said, adding that means another "layer" of appeals.
After the direct appeals and the post-conviction relief hearing, which can also be appealed, the case goes to the federal system in a "federal habeas matter," according to Thurmond.
"Then you can work those same issues all the way through our U.S. District Court, up through the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, ultimately to the United States Supreme Court," he said. "In some cases, it can be 20 years worth of appeals before a death sentence is ultimately carried out."
'A legal no man's land'
In the case of Donnie Council, his post-conviction relief was granted.
"In other words, the PCR judge found that his lawyer at the trial stage was not effective in representing Donnie Council," Thurmond said. Council was later found not competent to stand trial.
"His attorneys don't want him to be treated for his mental illness, because then he can be resentenced if he becomes competent," Thurmond said. Because Council's attorney was found defective in the penalty phase, Council would only get a new sentencing phase.
"Even if he were resentenced – which he can't until he's competent – he then ultimately could not be executed unless he stayed competent," Thurmond said. "Somebody who is not competent can't be executed."
Because Council has been granted post-conviction relief but is not competent to be retried in the sentencing phase, Thurmond said he is in a "legal no man's land."
"He is still on death row and is under supervision to determine his competency. No court has been able to declare him competent," Thurmond said. "There's not going to be another sentencing phase of the Council matter unless and until he is deemed competent to stand trial."
If Council is deemed competent, he would get a sentencing phase-only trial and a jury would be empanelled.
"Essentially, all the witnesses would have to be identified or recalled to tell that jury what happened," Thurmond said. "Then that jury would decide if he were to receive a life sentence or a death penalty."
Edgefield inmate on death row
In addition to Council, Steven Louis Barnes is the only other area inmate on South Carolina's death row.
Barnes was considered the ringleader of a group of six people involved in the kidnapping, torture and shooting death of 16-year-old Samuel Sturrup Jr. in September 2001.
Police said Sturrup and Barnes were friends, and that on Labor Day weekend in 2001, Barnes accused Sturrup of stealing money from him. Barnes and five others kidnapped him, beat him and then shot him, with Barnes delivering the lethal shot to Sturrup's head. Sturrup's remains were found nine years later.
Barnes was convicted and sentenced to death in November 2010. He was previously convicted on charges of armed robbery for an incident stemming from when he was the owner of an escort service in Columbia County, Georgia. He was serving a life sentence on those charges when he was sentenced to death for Sturrup's murder.
Barnes remains incarcerated in the S.C. Department of Corrections. The 11th Circuit Solicitor's Office could not be reached for comment for this story.
Teddy Kulmala covers the crime and courts beat for the Aiken Standard and has been with the newspaper since August 2012. He is a native of Williston and majored in communication studies at Clemson University.


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Why is it that so many of my most important genealogical discoveries happen late at night, when I should be going to bed? Last night it was the turn of Sarah LAY, the wife of Henry SHORNDEN/WRIGHT (and my 3x great-grandmother) to keep me up half the night.
Like her husband Henry I know quite a bit about her already and many of the same questions that apply to Henry also apply to Sarah. One important difference (other than not going to prison) is that I was missing Sarah's baptism, but I believe that mystery has now been solved.
Although I had a rough idea of her year of birth and her father's name (from her marriage certificate) what I was missing was a place. Sarah is one of those people whose place of birth changes between every census:
- 1851 – Harrow, Middlesex
- 1861 – Alton, Hampshire
- 1871 – Lincolnshire [at least that is the best I can make out]
- 1881 – Deptford, Kent
Then of course there could be Ospringe, Kent (where Henry was baptised) or Milton next Gravesend, Kent (where the couple married). To be honest Sarah could have been born/baptised almost anywhere in the country, but most likely within the South-East of England.
I had a quick search of the new FamilySearch.org website, which came up with a hit for Deptford, Kent. The father's name was correct and the date was about right, in fact there was nothing about it that gives me cause to doubt it is the right one.
Knowing that Deptford is now part of London (in the borough of Lewisham) I wondered why it hadn't come up when I had searched the London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 on Ancestry.co.uk, but when I browsed the baptism register for St. Paul's Deptford it soon became obvious why it hadn't come up.
The transcription had been mangled, although it wasn't really Ancestry's fault, the Rector who had filled in the original register had transposed the surname and abode boxes. It didn't help that their address was quite unusual, "Loving Edwards Lane", so their names ended up well and truly mangled.
Instead of Sarah being the daughter of Joseph and Hannah LAY she was transcribed as Sarah daughter of Joseph Louis and Hannah Jane Edwards. All quite straight forward to untangle once you know what you are looking for.
This is an important lead in the search to find out more about Henry SHORNDEN/WRIGHT as I now have another set of relatives to track down which might in turn lead me to Henry and his family in the 1841 census.
Also this means I now have another direct ancestor on my family tree, Sarah's mother Hannah, my 4x great-grandmother. All I need to do now is find out what her maiden name was and hopefully I can also push both the branches of my tree back a few more generations.
However that will have to wait, I have promised myself that I will try to get an early night tonight!


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For the most recent quarter, 14 analysts weighing in on Time Warner Inc. (NYSE:TWX) had predicted that the company would report earnings per share of $1.16 for the period ending on 2016-06-30. On 2016-08-03, the firm reported actual earnings of $1.29 for fiscal Q2 representing an EPS surprise amount in per share dollar terms of $0.13. Just prior to the release, analyst's estimates had a standard deviation of 0.02.
Looking ahead to the next fiscal quarter, Wall Street analysts are expecting earnings per share of 1.34 for the period closing on 2016-09-30. This is the Zacks Consensus estimate calculated as the arithmetic average of all the individual analyst EPS estimates according to their own proprietary methodology (BNRI Accounting). Investors are expecting that Time Warner Inc. (NYSE:TWX) will issue their earnings release on or around 2016-11-02. In comparing the results to the same quarter a year ago, the firm posted earnings of $1.25 for the period which endend on 2015-09-30.
Analyst Sentiment
Leading up to the next earnings announcements investors should pay close attention to the analysts sentiment on the stock and which direction they are revising their estimates. Over the past 6 months 4 sell-side analysts have lowered their long term earnings per share estimates on the stock. During that same period 5 analysts have increased their earnings expectations for the firm. So what does this mean? Typically if a large percentage of analysts lower their revisions, the company is more likely to disappoint the Street. If a large number of brokerage firms increase estimates prior to earnings, the company is more likely to impress with their numbers.
Looking ahead to long term projections, Zacks has calculated a long term mean estimate of 11.79. This is the best estimate for both revenue and earnings over the next three to five years. Three months ago this number stood at 12.22.
Analyst Price Targets
Now turning to where analysts believe Time Warner Inc. (NYSE:TWX) shares are headed. According to the 19 analysts covering the shares, the consensus price target stands at $87.263. The standard deviation of all estimates is $7.046. The most aggressive analyst on the name has a price target of $106. The analyst with the most bearish outlook on the stock has a target price of $74. The latest analyst revision was recorded on 2016-10-11.
Each of the 19 covering analysts have also provided a Buy, Sell or Hold recommendation on the stock. As of 2016-10-12, 12 have a Strong Buy rating on the stock, 2 have a Buy rating, 9 have a Hold rating and 0 have a Sell or Strong Sell. Taking a look back three months ago to compare sentiment, at that time 14 had a Strong Buy, 2 had a Buy, 9 had a Hold and 0 had a sell rating.
Zacks breaks all of the recommendations down into a integer based number in order to get an average recommendation rating on the stock. The scale is on a 1 to 5 basis where 1 represents a Strong Buy and 5 a Strong Sell. Time Warner Inc. (NYSE:TWX) has a mean recommendation of 1.87. In looking at the historical ratings numbers we can see that the stock had a mean rating of 1.91 one month ago, 1.92 two months ago and 1.8 three months ago.