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Thank you for visiting Mount Calvary, we hope that you find a place of rest, of comfort, and of nourishment within our congregation.
We meet weekly to receive the gifts that God has promised to deliver to us, not because of our goodness, but out of His great mercy and loving kindness; the forgiveness of sins, the strengthening of our trust in Him, and the life eternal that Jesus has won for us through His perfect life and death on the cross on our behalf.
We pray that you join us in growing together in the knowledge of the God who has revealed His amazing love for us and freely bestows on us His favor, joy, and the assurance of our salvation, through Jesus Christ our Savior!
REVEREND R. John Perling
Mount Calvary Lutheran Church, Beverly Hills
9:15-10 a.m. - FAMILY BIBLE STUDY - Study of Churches in America. Morning bible study has been comparing and contrasting other denominations with what we believe as Lutherans. Bring your questions and engage in an informative study led by Pastor Perling.
10:30-11:30 a.m. - CHURCH SERVICE
Noon-1 p.m. - GROUP STUDY - (Every Third Sunday) - Luther's Small Catechism with Explanation
10:30-11:30 a.m. - CHURCH SERVICE
Noon-1 p.m. - GROUP STUDY - (Every Third Sunday) - Luther's Small Catechism with Explanation
Sunday, March 20, 2016 10:30 am
Join us as we celebrate Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem.
Thursday, March 24 2016 - 7-8 pm
In this evening service, we remember the night in which Jesus celebrated the Passover with His disciples, washed their feet, and instituted the Lord's Supper.
Friday, March 25, 2016- 7-8 pm
In this evening service, we see God's plan for our salvation unfolded most plainly, the day that Christ willingly laid down His life on the cross for the full atonement of all our sins.
Sunday, March 27, 2016- Starting at 9 am until 10 am followed by EASTER SERVICE at 10:30 am.
We celebrate the resurrection of Christ, His triumph over sin, death and the devil, and His promise to freely give this new life to us because of His great love for us.
Hallelujah! Come and join our congregation for a delicious homemade breakfast before our Easter Service in the Lower Parish Hall. Every year, the men of Mount Calvary graciously serve us home-made pancakes and all the trimmings! Bring your family and friends as we prepare to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord!


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All shows and events for the remainder of the 2016-2017 Center Stage Jackson season are listed below.
Shows that do not currently have complete info for auditions are listed in grey.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And Then There Were None
Main Stage Play: Dinner Theatre
Ten guilty strangers are trapped on an island. One by one they are accused of murder; one by one they start to die. In this superlative mystery comedy statuettes of little soldier boys on the mantel of a house on an island off the coast of Devon fall to the floor and break one by one as those in the house succumb to a diabolical avenger. A nursery rhyme tells how each of the ten "soldiers" met his death until there were none. Eight guests who have never met each other or their apparently absent host and hostess are lured to the island and, along with the two house servants, marooned. A mysterious voice accuses each of having gotten away with murder and then one drops dead - poisoned. One down and nine to go!
A Pirate's Life for Me!
Youth Theater Musical
Auditions will be held in January. Announcement coming in December!
2017 Spring Cabaret
Shrek the Musical
Main Stage Musical
Auditions will be held in late March/early April 2017. Announcement Coming in February!
"Once upon a time, there was a little ogre named Shrek...." And thus begins the tale of an unlikely hero who finds himself on a life-changing journey alongside a wisecracking Donkey and a feisty princess who resists her rescue. Throw in a short-tempered bad guy, a cookie with an attitude and over a dozen other fairy tale misfits, and you've got the kind of mess that calls for a real hero. Luckily, there's one on hand... and his name is Shrek.
More info on upcoming productions coming soon!
Check back here for more info, or sign up for our e-blasts to the left or by e-mailing


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To The Reader's Forum:
My husband and I thoroughly enjoyed Excellence On Ice last Saturday evening.
The show was very entertaining and flowed beautifully. The costumes were stunning and at times very amusing. Unfortunately no acknowledgement was given to the director of the skating club or the coaches either during the show or in the program. kudos to everyone involved.
The Jamestown Skating Club is a great source of pride in Chautauqua County.
Beverly Lannon,


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It's hard to believe that another major UFC event is upon us, but UFC 140 is just days away. Emanating from the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, the UFC's second visit to what could be MMA's biggest fan base features Jon Jones making the second defense of the UFC light heavyweight title against the ever-elusive Lyoto Machida.
Other high-profile main card bouts include a pivotal rematch between former heavyweight champions and opposing "TUF" coaches Frank Mir and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira as well as Tito Ortiz attempting to stave off retirement once more against the younger Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.
After the jump is a preview of the main card, including a breakdown of the storylines leading into each fight as well as what to look for during the bouts.
Jon Jones vs. Lyoto Machida
The fight: Jones makes his second title defense against Machida, who earned the shot with a highlight-reel knockout of Randy Couture, but is more than likely in this spot because of a lack of challengers and an injury bug that has been plaguing the UFC for nearly a year now. It'll be a clash of Jones' creative striking and powerful wrestling against Machida's elusive stand-up style formed from his years practicing karate.
What to look for: No one to date has given Jones much of a challenge. Machida's style has proven hard to handle for all but two of his opponents and he may have what it takes to keep Jones at bay, at least for a while. However, like he always does, Jones holds a massive reach advantage over his opponent, so Machida may have to adapt a modified style in order to get inside and give Jones trouble.
Frank Mir vs. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
The fight: Mir and Nogueira meet in a rematch years in the making. Mir shocked Nogueira and the world in December 2008 when he became the first man to stop the Brazilian in his career. Others have done so since, but the feat was a remarkable accomplishment at the time and a massive upset. Following the bout, news spread that Nogueira suffered from an infection during the bout and wasn't 100%. Mir has wanted to prove he is the better fighter for some time now while Nogueira wants a shot at avenging one of his greatest losses.
What to look for: Mir was able to out-strike Nogueira by a large margin the last time that they met. It was surprising since Nogueira while being an accomplished grappler, is also solid on his feet. Since then, Nogueira has proven that he still holds knockout power, but his footwork has slowed down considerably. He may want to consider taking this fight to the ground in order to stand a chance against Mir a second time.
Tito Ortiz vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
The fight: Ortiz will attempt to continue to steer his career back in the right direction against the younger of the Nogueira brothers, who has last two straight bouts and is looking to prevent being cut from the promotion with a win against yet another wrestler.
What to look for: Ortiz caught Ryan Bader with a good right hand, but he may be wary to stand with Nogueira, who has proven to be one of the better stand-up artists in the light heavyweight division. Ortiz's wrestling prowess isn't what it was once was, but Nogueira has shown to be susceptible to the takedown even against some unlikely opponents.
Brian Ebersole vs. Claude Patrick
The fight: Ebersole looks to continue his surprising run of success in the UFC against replacement opponent Claude Patrick, who has won all of his UFC bouts to date as well. Both men are well-rounded fighters, equally talented on the feet and both decorated grapplers on the ground.
What to look for: This is a fight that could take place everywhere. Both men are capable of handling themselves on the feet, but are more known for their talented ground games. It looks to be a battle of Ebersole's wrestling and top-game control against Patrick's slick bottom game and quick submissions.
Mark Hominick vs. Chan Sung Jung
The fight: Hominick will attempt to bounce back from a hard-fought unanimous decision loss to Jose Aldo at UFC 129 in his native Canada against Jung, a fan-favorite who snapped a two-fight losing streak with an impressive submission win in a rematch against rival Leonard Garcia in April.
What to look for: An absolute slugfest. Hominick is one of the more talented stand-up artists in the business and looks to keep his fights on the feet whenever possible. Have you seen Jung's epic war with Garcia the first time around? If so, do you think Jung will be willing to stand with Hominick? Enough said.
Next entry: War Machine Enters Bellator Field
Previous entry: The Daily Recap: Dos Santos Surgery Successful, Castillo Replaces Nijem & More


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Q: We moved to Dauphin Island a couple of years ago.
Last summer we planted Better Boy and Atkinson tomatoes in the garden. They came up and produced a few delicious tomatoes. The plants continued to grow over head high, but quit producing as soon as it got hot.
What do you recommend for Dauphin Island as far as tomatoes go?
A: won't recommend a specific variety, but I'll offer something better: A solid philosophy for taking advantage of Gulf Coast tomato growing weather.
Here's the gist of it: Plant so that you can harvest as much of your crop as possible in May and early June, during the ideal tomato growing weather of American summer. And just assume that July and August are terrible months for tomatoes on the Gulf Coast, because they will be.
At the end of June, Gulf summer hits in full force, with very high night temperatures — and it's the NIGHT temperatures that prevent your tomatoes from fruiting.
Tomatoes need several hours per day in the low 70s or below, and that doesn't happen on the Island after mid-June.
Frequent rains add to the problems. Even if you can get tomatoes to set in the night heat of mid-summer (and you probably won't get many, no matter what variety you grow), the flavor will be so-so and the disease and insect issues will be nearly impossible to deal with.
So how do you harvest early, in May and June?
1. Plant as early as possible. On Dauphin Island, spring starts in mid-February, so I'd plant (18-inch tall transplants) around February 20-25, depending on the weather.
In the cooler parts of West Mobile, I'd plant this weekend (March 3-5).
You may need to protect the young plants with a Wall of Water (which will keep them warm even if temperatures drop into the mid-20s) or a cardboard box (which should add at least a few degrees of protection), but the early planting will pay big dividends.
2. Plant varieties that produce mature fruit in less than 75 days. If you plant beefsteak varieties that require 85 days or more to set fruit, you're going to be sadly disappointed, as they won't mature their fruits until late June, which means you may get only one or two tomatoes before July shuts them down.
The varieties that are most productive along the Gulf Coast begin ripening tomatoes after about 65 days.
For best flavor, for ease of harvest, for maximum production, and for relative freedom from insect and disease issues, I'd be sure to include some cherry tomatoes.
Americans (as always) associate size with flavor, but the truth is, it's nearly impossible to beat the cherry tomatoes for full tomato flavor.
Look for old-fashioned, short-season cherries like Riesentraube, or new hybrids like Juliette or Sungold.
With cherry tomatoes, you won't have to worry much about insects, either. If a worm or a stinkbug manages to find its way to one of your cherries, so what — there are 99 other tomatoes just like it on the same plant.
If a bug drills into one of your long-awaited beefsteaks in June, he may damage 50 percent of your crop!
We're getting a great selection of unusual cherry and short-season tomatoes in at the Mobile Botanical Gardens during the spring sale at the end of this month, if you can't find them elsewhere.
Q: I have seen info abut raising tomatoes in hanging baskets, with the tomatoes hanging down. Do you know if this really works?
A: Can you grow tomatoes upside down? Yes.
Is there any good reason to grow tomatoes upside down? No.
Will tomatoes grown upside down in a container be harder to maintain and grow more poorly than a tomato grown right side up in the ground? Yes.
Tomatoes are hard enough to grow. Not sure why people keep wanting to make them harder.
(Bill Finch would love to hear about your garden experiences and problems. He can't answer all questions personally, but you can e-mail him at email@example.com.)


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NEWARK — Three Essex County parks workers face up to 10 years in prison if convicted of stealing gas from a county gas pump for their personal vehicles.
Rocco Gonnella, 44, of Toms River, coordinator of maintenance services, Albert Maldonado, 40, of Elizabeth, a maintenance repairer and Jimmie Pettus, 45, a laborer, are charged with taking gas on more than one occasion from a county pump in Newark, said acting Essex County Prosecutor Carolyn A. Murray.
An investigation determined the men had used five-gallon plastic containers to take the gas, Murray said. Authorities did not say how much gas was to have been stolen.
The three are charged with theft and conspiracy, she said. They have worked for the county between 12 and 25 years and were released pending a court appearance on July 6, 2012. An Essex County spokeswoman said the county is preparing disciplinary action.
"These arrests demonstrate to our employees and the public that this conduct will not be tolerated," said Essex County Executive Joseph DiVincenzo, Jr. "I applaud our Inspector General Dominic Scaglione and his staff, working with the Prosecutor's Office and Sheriff's Office, to conduct a thorough investigation."


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This deal has ended.
Through 8/21, 6pm.com is taking 40-80% off BCBGMaxArzria apparel, shoes, and bags beating the best and best most inclusive sale we've seen from them on this brand this year with new price cuts. Check out the Long Side Turtleneck Poncho, originally $161, now $32.20, a $16 price cut since our last mention, the pictured Tie Front Cardigan, originally $228, now $45.60, and the Full Needle One Shoulder Dress, originally $298, now $59.60, a whopping $3 price cut since the last sale. Shipping is $6.95 and there is no sales tax (except KY, NV, NC, NY). Sizes and quantities are limited, so act fast.No longer available


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The remaining suspects involved in the theft of a safe containing a quarter million dollars worth of silver bars and coins were apprehended Sunday morning.
Giles Clark, 49, Christopher Mason, 38, and Renae Mason, 37, were located and arrested by Palo Alto County Sheriff's deputies at a cabin located at Lost Island Lake, according to a news release issued by the Marshalltown Police Department. The property at 33533 Electric Park is owned by Clark's father, it said.
The MPD on Thursday issued arrest warrants for four individuals who allegedly stole the safe from the Park Elm Apartments, 415 N. Third St. on July 6.
Article Photos
C. Mason
R. Mason
"We've recovered a large amount of the coins that were taken and we know the silver bars were taken to Christopher's Fine Jewelry down in Des Moines," said Capt. Mike Hanken, with the MPD.
Hanken declined to estimate the value of the contents that have been recovered. Det. Craig Brooks, who was hired privately to investigate the case, said in a previous interview the safe contained at least $250,000 worth of silver bars and coins.
Clark, of Marshalltown, is charged with ongoing criminal conduct, a Class B felony, first-degree theft, a Class C felony, money laundering, a Class D felony, third-degree burglary, a Class D felony, conspiracy to commit a felony, a Class D felony and two counts of probation violation.
Christopher Mason, of Marshalltown, is charged with ongoing criminal conduct, a Class B felony, first-degree theft, a Class D felony, third-degree burglary, a Class D felony, conspiracy to commit a felony, a Class D felony and an enhanced charge of possession of methamphetamine, a Class D felony. At the time of his arrest, Mason was in possession of more than four grams of meth and faces charges in Palo Alto County for possession and intent to deliver, a Class C felony and possession of drug paraphernalia, a simple misdemeanor.
Renae Mason, of Le Grand, is charged with third-degree theft, an aggravated misdemeanor.
The three were transported to the Marshall County Jail and are scheduled to make initial court appearances Monday.
Police arrested 37-year-old Adam Beem, of Marshalltown, Friday and charged him with second-degree theft and conspiracy to commit a felony, both class D felonies, in connection with the burglary.
The incident remains under investigation by Marshalltown Police.


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A Lebanon County resident has died of swine flu, the state Department of Health Web site is showing. The person was an adult, but no other information on the deceased can be provided by the department, said spokeswoman Stacy Kriedeman.
The state has reported 20 deaths from swine flu, including one child Oct. 31 in Adams County.
Statewide, 7,661 confirmed cases of swine flu and 90 probable cases are reported.


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Staff cuts, closing the county clerk's Amarillo office, no cost-of-living-raises, eliminating travel allowances, and halving the salaries of the county judge and commissioners - that is the scenario Randall County Judge Ted Wood suggested would occur if property taxes don't rise 35 percent.
After three years of deficits from slowly growing revenues and increasing costs, Randall County has reached a point where none of the budget decisions it faces is pretty, and the ugliest problem is a $2.8 million deficit.
Wood has cleared his schedule today to be available to constituents to see which decisions they want the county to make.
"We could cut $2.8 million ... that's about 15 percent of the budget," Wood said Thursday. "It can't be solved by nipping it here and shaving it a little here. We would have to do wholesale changes to make it work."
The increase would mean a tax bill about $70 higher for the owner of a $100,000 house, as opposed to if commissioners left the effective tax rate in place.
The effective rate would raise the same revenue as this year and is where governments must start their tax calculations. Because the taxable value of property has increased, the tax rate would have to increase about 6 percent to be the same rate as this year.
"I don't think most people would be in favor of those kind of cuts," Wood said. "You have people living out on roads that don't always think they have good service now."
Commissioner Gene Parker is in favor of the bold move.
"I think we just need to get those rates where they need to be," he said. "Like that old saying, 'no guts, no glory.' If that causes me to not get re-elected, let them step up to the plate."
Of 31 counties Wood surveyed, only Deaf Smith County has a tax rate lower than Randall's. The average of those rates, ranging from 22 cents per $100 of taxable value to 88 cents, is about 50 cents. While Randall County's rate is 28.5 cents, Potter's is 49 cents. Wood's plan would move Randall's to 35.8 cents.
Commissioner Craig Gualtiere said he is strongly in favor of keeping the tax rate the same as this year.
"When I ran for office, I said, 'Sometimes the difficult things take courage.' The easy way out is to raise taxes," he said. "We have to think outside the box and make it happen. And I don't intend to raid the savings fund to get there."
Because of the seriousness of the situation, Commissioner Bob Karrh said he wants to check with residents to see the size of the frenzy a tax increase would incite.
"I don't want to start down a path without getting some kind of input. Maybe the majority would say 'Full steam ahead,' or they might have a better idea," Karrh said. "I don't think, realistically, they (taxes) are up high enough to do what we need to do."
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Glad to help @Vee812.
@vonterschpe: Very kind and empathetic of you to feel our pain. Now that I'm primal and more in-tune with my body, I actually don't mind it so much. I tend to like the natural measures of time (movement of sun throughout the day, changing of seasons), so I don't mind my body having its own internal clock. I think it would be very frustrating to have some of the issues with irregularity/fertility/severe pain some women on the thread experience though.


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Los Angeles Kings: Goals From 4-0 Game 3 Blowout of DevilsJune 4, 2012 – 10:51 pm by Ryan Phillips
The Los Angeles Kings are now one win away from hoisting the Stanley Cup for the first time in franchise history. On Monday night the Kings absolutely smoked the New Jersey Devils 4-0 in Game 3 of their Stanley Cup Finals series.
Los Angeles is now up 3-0 in the series and it is the fourth time this postseason they have a 3-0 series lead. The team now has a 15-2 record in the playoffs. It has been a remarkable run and Monday night's game may have been their best of the playoffs.
The Kings were able to get four pucks past Martin Brodeur. Video of all of the goals after the jump.
Alec Martinez got the scoring underway as he and Dwight King refused to give up on the play and kept whacking at the puck until it went into the net. After that goal the Kings just got an extra gear.
The second goal here may have been the best goal of the finals series. Justin Williams beautifully dropped the puck to Dustin Brown, who hit Anze Kopitar perfectly. Kopitar didn't mess around, shooting it past a helpless Brodeur.
In the third period the Kings just owned the game. As proof of that, their dormant power play came back to life. Jeff Carter took a pass from Mike Richards and roofed it past Brodeur. The key to this play was defenseman Willie Mitchell keeping the puck in the zone and getting it to Richards.
The Kings capped off the scoring with another power play tally. Defenseman Drew Doughty made a great rush up the ice and set a perfect pass across to Justin Williams. Williams made a sweet move then took a shot that was saved by Brodeur. But the forward got his own rebound and slipped it past the long-time New Jersey goaltender.
It was a phenomenal performance from a Kings team that has been simply incredible this postseason.


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Two Row Wampum Renewal Campaign At Syracuse Stage
Monday, February 11, 2013 9:55 PM
Onondaga Chief Jake Edwards discusses the 400 year wampum treaty during an awarenss event held at Syarcuse Stage, 920 E. Genesee St., Syracuse. The Two Row Wampum Treaty was created in 1613 between the Haudenosaunee and the Euro-peans. Gary Walts | firstname.lastname@example.com
Related articles
- Spirit of Two Row Wampum lives strong in Central New York February 11, 2013, 9:57 PM


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Private Citizens Perform $4 Million Road Repair Job For Free in 8 Days
April 10, 2009 · Posted in General Economics
Anyone who thinks we need government to build and maintain roads may want to consider Kauai residents don't wait for state to repair road:
Their livelihood was being threatened, and they were tired of waiting for government help, so business owners and residents on Hawaii's Kauai island pulled together and completed a $4 million repair job to a state park — for free.
Polihale State Park has been closed since severe flooding destroyed an access road to the park and damaged facilities in December.
The state Department of Land and Natural Resources had estimated that the damage would cost $4 million to fix, money the agency doesn't have, according to a news release from department Chairwoman Laura Thielen.
"It would not have been open this summer, and it probably wouldn't be open next summer," said Bruce Pleas, a local surfer who helped organize the volunteers. "They said it would probably take two years. And with the way they are cutting funds, we felt like they'd never get the money to fix it."
And if the repairs weren't made, some business owners faced the possibility of having to shut down.
Ivan Slack, co-owner of Napali Kayak, said his company relies solely on revenue from kayak tours and needs the state park to be open to operate. The company jumped in and donated resources because it knew that without the repairs, Napali Kayak would be in financial trouble.
"If the park is not open, it would be extreme for us, to say the least," he said. "Bankruptcy would be imminent. How many years can you be expected to continue operating, owning 15-passenger vans, $2 million in insurance and a staff? For us, it was crucial, and our survival was dependent on it. That park is the key to the sheer survival of the business."
So Slack, other business owners and residents made the decision not to sit on their hands and wait for state money that many expected would never come. Instead, they pulled together machinery and manpower and hit the ground running March 23.
And after only eight days, all of the repairs were done, Pleas said. It was a shockingly quick fix to a problem that may have taken much longer if they waited for state money to funnel in.
"We can wait around for the state or federal government to make this move, or we can go out and do our part," Slack said. "Just like everyone's sitting around waiting for a stimulus check, we were waiting for this but decided we couldn't wait anymore."
Thielen has been waiting, too. She wants the legislature to approve her Recreation Renaissance project, a $240 million booster shot to help fix parks across the state. Without it, at least five state parks may be forced to close, and there would be no emergency repair money to fix Polihale State Park.
"We shouldn't have to do this, but when it gets to a state level, it just gets so bureaucratic, something that took us eight days would have taken them years," said Troy Martin of Martin Steel, who donated machinery and steel for the repairs. "So we got together — the community — and we got it done."
The park is a fixture on the west side of the island and a favorite spot for many in the area, but it's also a hub for tourists.
"Tourism is our lifeblood. It's what pays all of our bills," Slack said. "The money that pours in comes from tourism is really an important factor for everyone here in Hawaii, and it's such an important time to encourage tourism."
And it's an important time to keep jobs, which were threatened if the park had to remain closed. In February, Kauai's unemployment rate was at 9.1 percent, up from 2.8 percent during the same time in 2008, according to Hawaii's Department of Labor.
"I think it's crucial to say the doors are open, everyone is ready," Slack said. "So when one of the most important parks in Hawaii is closed, it really changes things."
Now, because of their hard work, volunteers hope they'll be ready to send that positive message — right in time for the tourist season.
Slack said he likes to have business up and running by April 15, and the season gets busy around May 1.
The business owners and residents are hopeful that their generous contributions in time and resources mean the park should officially open soon. Pleas says they have only to get the new bridge certified and do minor cleanup.
"A lot of people are quietly sitting by, waiting for it to open," Slack said. "This really this is one of the nicest parks in the state and in all of Hawaii, in the entire state parks department. Now, hopefully, those people get their wish."
It is a complete myth to believe we need government to manage roads. Throughout history, it has been common for private merchant associations to take care of municipal infrastructure. They did so not for altruistic reasons, but simple to maximize their own profit by maximizing traffic.
Anyone still wondering how their tax dollars are going to be wasted, here is your answer: $4 million for a job that private business can do for free in 8 days. Government contractors are already drooling after the insane profits they will be making off of overpriced stimulus deals.
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48 Responses to "Private Citizens Perform $4 Million Road Repair Job For Free in 8 Days"
betaray on April 12th, 2009 8:20 am
Why shouldn't someone profit off my needs for travel? Poor capital owners hardly get a break these days.
Retro Joe on April 12th, 2009 11:46 am
Okay, you've got a large point about bureaucracy sucking and us being able to do much more for ourselves, but c'mon: "It is a complete myth to believe we need government to manage roads." Who's gonna pay for highways through Mississippi and South Dakota, the people who live there? I wouldn't think so. It seems like this makes sense to you, too, because your next point is about merchants' associations and MUNICIPAL roads. Also, what about the costs of real roads as opposed to just a dirt regrade and a couple of bridge rebuilds in the Hawaii article?
Doug on April 12th, 2009 5:52 pm
Well, the govt doesn't need to maintain roads where there are viable businesses which can do it. Those businesses should have made it a toll road. However, in the cases where there are lots of poor who do NOT have the financial resources to do this, it is not realistic to think they don't need roads.
Also, your title is completely misleading, it's not private citizens that did the work, it was several businesses. Not the govt, yes, but not citizens either.
mempko on April 13th, 2009 8:15 am
It was democracy in action, not "free market" in action. Nothing was traded, and no money exchanged hands. The market had nothing to do with this.
This is how democracy should work. They demonstrated how an anarchist society would work. It had nothing to do with "markets", or private ownership, or anything silly like that.
Jimmie on April 13th, 2009 9:55 am
wow, so we pay taxes, give the money to government, and then we do the work for free? I think this will end badly… I think I'll just go get some balls at http://yournuts.com
Nima on April 13th, 2009 11:16 am
Some answers to clarify the misunderstandings that most responses are based upon:
"Who's gonna pay for highways through Mississippi and South Dakota, the people who live there?"
- Very simple. Whoever think they need a road going through Mississippi and South Dakota will pay for it. There is nothing complicated or arcane about this.
"in the cases where there are lots of poor who do NOT have the financial resources to do this, it is not realistic to think they don't need roads."
- You are now talking about the ability to AFFORD roads, not to build them. This is not an issue of government infrastructure management, but of welfare policy. Welfare programs can allocate money from wealthy to poor areas so that funding will be available for roads. Now I am not saying that government welfare programs are better than voluntary ones, I am merely pointing out that this argument completely misses the point.
'…it's not private citizens that did the work, it was several businesses'
- Who owns the businesses if not private citizens?
"It was democracy in action, not "free market" in action."
- Which point in my post are you arguing?
"They demonstrated how an anarchist society would work. It had nothing to do with "markets", or private ownership, or anything silly like that."
- A true anarchist society can only function under private ownership of all means of production. Thus private ownership and anarchism are inextricably linked.
captbbq on April 14th, 2009 2:00 am
While few things in Korea woud appeal to anyone with libertarian economic ideals, expressway construction and managment would be the exception. The Korean Expressway Corporation(EX) is a for profit entity established by the Korea government and generated the equivalent of 22 million dollars for its investors in 2007. It is responsible for almost the entire expressway system in South Korea. While its investors are government entities at the moment, some of them (Korea Development Bank) are in the process of being privatized.
You can take a look at the balance sheet and everything:
They even have private competitors! Hyundai Developement Company looked at EX's road between Daegu and Pusan and decide d they could cut a half hour off the transit time, so they build a new one and established a limited liability corporation known as "New Daegu Busan Expressway Co. Ltd." to operate it. http://www.dbeway.co.kr/ (sorry that last one is in Korean)
Nima on April 14th, 2009 3:00 am
@captbbq: thanks for the great input. it is always good to crush false ideas with hard facts. the more striking the evidence, the more agitated the opponents will get. and the more ridiculous they will sound when trying to defend their shallow, ancient, and false theories.
captbbq on April 14th, 2009 5:58 am
Nima, my pleasure. Here's a short paper comparing both the Japanese and Korean methods for highway development through public corporations: http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/rcicc/papers/s5.kimura.pdf
It's pretty good proof of concept, despite both taking subsidies from the government, since most of the funding seems provided with internal revenue and loans were taken out when needed to fund various projects (as any private enterprise would do).
These Asian economies had to develop quickly, and didn't have time for lumbering bureaucracies, its not surprising that they took a different approach to things than the west.
If any of this gives you an idea for a blog post don't even bother with the hat tip, just go for it. I am happy enough to know this knowledge is being disseminated form a podium bigger than mine.
Pasadenahotrod on April 19th, 2009 11:09 am
Funny how folks can even complain when work is done by business for the public and private good.
If you look at the record of the roadbuilding companies hired by government you'll see a whole lot of time and a bigger amount of money spent for roads that don't last near as long as the original Interstate system has lasted.
Substandard materials, poor inspection oversight by engineers hired to supervise and verify, and just plain theft and fraud are common in the roadbuilding business.
Jeffrey Quick on April 20th, 2009 12:48 pm
Now, how long will it be before the citizen fix is declared "not good enough" and undone, with the people involved cited for vandalism to public property, or for some environmental infraction? I bet that will happen a lot sooner than 2 years.
ignatz on November 8th, 2011 8:17 pm
Looks like the Bush tax cut cost those businesses a lot more than they saved.
Michael Pelletier on November 8th, 2011 8:58 pm
Boston talk radio personality Michael Graham quipped that if you spent $10 billion on a tunnel in Chicago, you'd get the best $6 billion tunnel money could buy.
Juxtaposition: Modern Hunter-Gatherers vs. Modern Force-Backed Administrations | Free The Animal on November 9th, 2011 4:24 pm
[...] Reminds me of this: Private Citizens Perform $4 Million Road Repair Job For Free in 8 Days. [...]
Austro-libertarian/AnCap/Market Anarchist circle jerk thread - Page 53 - Grasscity.com Forums on November 9th, 2011 6:06 pm
[...] Anarchist circle jerk thread It's an old story, but I think you guys will still appreciate it. Private Citizens Perform $4 Million Road Repair Job For Free in 8 Days __________________ This is a story of a kid his name is Cisko Who made more money than the [...]
Corbett Report Radio 013 – The Solution | Info-Tube.org on November 17th, 2011 7:48 pm
[...] economicsjunkie.com [...]
nima on November 18th, 2011 9:58 am
I expect more and more private individuals to offer their services to do things that government bureaucrats can't or simply won't do. And I predict that union officials and other entitled conservatives will make complete scumbags of themselves as they ferociously oppose those people's displays of voluntaryism in action.
Corbett Report Radio 013 – The Solution | End the Lie - Independent News on November 19th, 2011 1:46 am
[...] Private Citizens Perform $4 Million Road Repair Job For Free in 8 Days Link To: economicsjunkie.com [...]
ian on November 29th, 2011 2:01 pm
With regards to the Korea Expressway corp.
They were created in the late 60s under the dictatorship of Park Jung Hee. 100% funded by the government. And Korea in the 60s was anything but the market working untouched by government hands.
Their investors now are something like 98% government organizations.
Hardly anything to write about in a blog that is supposed to be about the efficiency of the free market.
Private versus Public - Precious Metals Forum on May 14th, 2012 2:45 pm
[...] versus Public http://www.economicsjunkie.com/priva…ree-in-8-days/ Public version: This will take over a year and cost millions Private version: Everyone that needs [...]
umm, yeah on May 15th, 2012 12:13 am
Define "free." Nothing is free. This road was not free. Also, fixing a section of road through a national park bears no resemblance to interstate road and highway construction and maintenance. A neighborbood might join together to repair their culdesac; this is not the same as building tens of thousands of miles of interstate highway. Please try again.
Nima on May 15th, 2012 2:15 am
@umm, yeah – if you think that the sum-total of my argument is confined to this one single anecdote, I think you might be missing the point of what it is that I'm doing here. If you were a curious and open individual you would certainly not ask me to "try again", but rather go out on the internet yourself and gather more information about fascinating things like private turnpikes throughout the 19th century, etc.
That is, like I said, if you're a curious and open individual … =)
Slap Back The Bully on May 15th, 2012 7:25 am
Please cite when any such libertarian scenario has survived and thrived for generations in the history of humankind. No pie-in-the-sky. Give me more than theory in a bell jar. All of those people who participated in this one event won't necessarily support it as an ongoing economic model for their lives and livelihood . Give me one example of entire a society that has flourished over substantial time with this economic model.
Ashkaji on May 15th, 2012 9:29 am
Nice read. Also ty Nima for responding to all these comments logically, you're not alone in your beliefs on this. :)
Fabiano on May 15th, 2012 9:33 am
The government should give those people $1M for the work they did…a savings of $3M…doubt that will happen thou….
@umm, yeah on May 15th, 2012 11:56 am
First, of all, I was snarky when I shouldn't have been so I'm sorry for that.
Next, I want the gov't to be obsolete and irrelevant as much as the next person. But, examples of fixing one section of an access road and private municipal road-works do not begin to approach the complexity and demands of, for example, interstate highways and critical bridges.
Ever try to travel long distances on the "back roads"? It frequently takes two or three times as long. Interstate commerce cannot wait to smell the roses.
Municipal road projects are just that… municipal; in other words, stopping at the edge of town.
So, gov't may not be the most efficient, just, or expedient way of doing things but, as this article demonstrates MORE gov't funding is needed to keep our infrastructure maintained, not less. In mean, really, these citizens fixed one small section of a dirt road. This experience is not susceptible to extrapolation into a general disavowal of gov't efficacy in building and maintaining infrastructure.
syrinx on May 15th, 2012 12:12 pm
Thank you, Nima. I appreciate reading about triumph over government bureaucracy however large or small. We can help ourselves. They need us more than we need them. Although there is a large segment of our population that is entrenched in the welfare mentality, some of us realize that ultimately it is the people that have the power to make things happen.
Nima on May 15th, 2012 12:37 pm
@umm, yeah: OK, but keep in mind that we're looking at this in the context of a system with a big existing welfare/warfare/taxation state where a lot of money is taken away from this and future generations already, so we won't really know HOW EXACTLY the problem of transportation will get solved in a system of voluntary and free competition. Who knows, maybe roads aren't even the best means of transportation? Maybe we'd be far less dependent on fossil fuels if the government didn't subsidize roads all over the place?
On that same token, 200 years ago I could not have told you HOW EXACTLY cotton would be picked without slavery, if I had told you back then that it'll be done via giant metal machines that run on crushed dinosaur juice you'd have called me insane! Those who were building tunnels to rescue slaves and channel them back into regular society on their own dime were doing so only BECAUSE of the existence of slavery, so of course the process was not all smooth sailing.
I view this example in a similar light: People trying to do the best they can in a shitty system through peaceful and voluntary means.
This is the whole point of allowing for free enterprise and competition to overcome theft and monopoly: That nobody by himself has the perfect answer, and most definitely not when he has to fund his entire operation by bureaucratic means, that is by looting and distributing the loot amongst rivaling groups.
Nima on May 15th, 2012 12:40 pm
@Ashkaji: Thanks much for the kind words, I really appreciate it! :)
Slap Back The Bully on May 15th, 2012 1:04 pm
Still waiting…
Nima on May 15th, 2012 1:59 pm
@Slap Back The Bully: OK, you want examples of how the initiation of violence or threat thereof was withdrawn and replaced with voluntary and peaceful choices lastingly. Here you go:
- the abolishion of the practice of extorting money from people (taxation) for the purpose of paying state troopers to catch runaway slaves, also commonly known as "Slavery"
- the abolishion of the practice of extorting money from people (taxation) for the purpose of paying the police to lock up women in asylums who dared to try and choose their own husbands instead of getting them forced upon them, allowing them to divorce from abusive husbands if necessary
- the abolishion of the practice of using taxpayer money to shake down individuals who tried to own their own property run their own businesses, against conventions enforced by aristocracy and the priestly classes, also commonly known as "Feudalism" or "Serfdom"
Those all seem to have held up for quite some time, no?
syrinx on May 15th, 2012 2:05 pm
@Slap Back the Bully……why? Why should Nima have to give you evidence of a multi-generational society that has flourished in human history? The current society that we are living in is highly unsustainable and Nima as well as many others appears to be looking at alternatives. What is wrong with trying these principles? The principles we operate under now have been proven time and again to fail. What is wrong with implementing a different approach? Why does there have to be a precedent set at all? You can't solve a problem on the level it was created. Implementing new ideas about the way things can work may be our only hope. As each generation comes in, their perspective is different that the generation before it. These new perspectives are the answers to a collective prayer for things to be different. As Nima stated above in the example of picking cotton, 200 years ago no one could have predicted how it is done now. New ideas for creating a flourishing society will come with each new generation and so what if they can't be proven to naysayers based on societies in the past. At some point we have to just "get over it and get on with it". The answer is not more government. The answer is to be innovative and move forward with ideas and create a new paradigm. There doesn't have to be a past society proving anything works for us to try these ideas now because what we currently operate under is not working. Find the thing that will work and move with it. Don't limit anyone because you can't conceive of it working.
Jon on May 15th, 2012 3:30 pm
WOW! You mean that we citizens can do things without our government?!? Next your gonna tell me the people in charge are just like you and me!
I mean seriously, obviously thr government needs to babysit us, everystep of the way, from raising our kids, to saying who can marry who, and allowing the infrastructure to fall into such disrepair it shames the entire nation!
BiggestGovt on May 15th, 2012 3:57 pm
Hell yes! These businesses were dependent upon Polihale State Park, and didn't need government in their lives whatsoever! Suck it, state of Hawaii! We don't need your roads!
Slap Back The Bully on May 15th, 2012 5:46 pm
No, Nima….I did not ask for isolated examples within an essentially capitalist society where a libertarian principle has worked. We can give such examples about libertarianism, socialism, and capitalism in any society – where that particular principle has worked. Stop re-writing my challenge to suit your ability to answer.
I asked you to give me one an example of an entire society that has flourished over substantial time with this economic model.
And syrinx, just stating that another form of society is dysfunctional and broken (name one that isn't), does not strengthen the case for the alternative you propose to work any better overall. That's a cheap shot and copout. Ultimately, a society and economic structure is only as good as the ability to make it work. There is nothing new about this debate. It's as old as the hills. Do you think libertarianism is new or original in any way. This has been debated through application (along with theory) down through generations and – again and again – the citizens have chose socialist and capitalist alternatives over the workability of pure libertarianism. It's hard to argue with that. It wasn't big government that put the first public waterworks into most small communities…it was the citizens who chose to do it that way and pay for it through community taxes.
Again, I pose the challenge: Give me one an example of an entire society that has flourished over substantial time with a libertarian economic model.
Nima on May 15th, 2012 6:27 pm
@Slap Back The Bully: I think I have done my best to give you food for thought.
There was a time up to which no society without slavery had existed. There was a time up to which no society without equal rights for women had existed. There was a time up to which no society without Feudalism had existed.
I could link you to texts about ancient anarchist Ireland which arguably lasted for about 1000 years. But even if that was not the case … since when do we have to point you to examples of how an untried and in its reception relatively novel idea USED to work in the past.
That's the whole point of progress!
How ridiculous would it have been 20 years ago to ask the inventor of TCP/IP to please present examples of an entire society where the internet has flourished over substantial time with a common protocol standard.
This is from my Voluntaryism/Anarchism FAQ:
7. But there are no examples of voluntaryism ever having worked, are there ??
This is a very commonly held notion. It shows how severely our beliefs have been compromised by false ideologies throughout our lives.
For if one took one simple look around oneself, he would find the answer to this question at once. The best example of voluntaryism working … is yourself.
You cooperate in society on a voluntary basis. You don't use aggression to buy groceries. You don't use aggression to get your clothes. You don't use aggression when debating with friends and family. You don't use aggression to find a job. You don't use aggression to settle disputes with neighbors, clients, vendors, employees, etc. You are perfectly capable of living peaceful, free, and beautiful lives.
It is in very few cases where we ever interact with anybody from the state. Every April 15th we file our taxes to confirm how much the state has taken from us throughout the year. Sometimes we don't, and then a tax collector shows up to make us do it or kidnap us at gunpoint if we don't. Sometimes we go to the DMV to get a driver's licence. At times we get fined by the police because we do a U Turn where they decree, for whatever reason, that it is illegal. We send our kids to public schools where they spend 14 years of their life being indoctrinated about how great the state is, where diverse talents and opinions are put through the meat grinder of collective thinking and conformity, where opposing ideas such as presented in this article are not even for a second tolerated.
All these interactions we have with the state are, in general, rather unpleasant, boring, frustrating, and un-gratifying. Yet, due to a lack of proper education about the alternative of voluntaryism, we believe that it is utterly necessary to have this group of people with the right to use aggression against us to fund their destructive activities, be it domestic or foreign depredations, to borrow our children's future into oblivion, and then, out of all things, to EDUCATE those same children for 14 (!!) years of their lives.
It will take years of enlightenment, dedication, and education, to open people's eyes about one of the most simple facts about themselves: that they are inherently good.
I hope this helps! :)
Slap Back The Bully on May 15th, 2012 6:54 pm
Actually, I didn't need your food for thought, Nima. I've seen it all before and studied it all before. This stuff is as old as the hills. The same goes for "anarchy" and "libertarianism". It's not some new technology like the internet – that was untried and never tested until relatively recently. There is nothing new or "novel" about the libertarian concept; even your desire to introduce an ancient example you are unwilling to document proves that. As an economic structure and theory, anarchy has been debated endlessly for centuries- and it has been tried and tested and found wanting again and again through history by people with as much vision and wisdom as any of us here today. It is a pie-in-the-sky hypothetical scenario that has never been successfully implemented for long without the citizens of a society choosing other options. With all due respect, too many have the arrogance to think that because something is relatively new to their little universe that it is therefore new to the universe at large. That is a common and foolish mistake. Thanks for playing.
Slap Back The Bully on May 15th, 2012 7:21 pm
By the way, your fundamental argument from the FAQ should be insulting to everybody who reads it and all who have gone before us. It presumes that we and they are all victims who have been brainwashed by big government and beaten into submission without citizens ever having chosen options other than anarchy of our own accord. You presume that "government" is always somebody else – the big mythical "them" in the sky, trying to control our lives. In reality, government has often been the product of our own desires and judgement as a citizenry. While it is also true that this has just as often not been the case – human beings have directly governed themselves again and again throughout time. You see, the more people involved the more disagreement you will find on how to govern or even what kind of society is desired. So, with an inevitable regularity, "the state" is "us".
Nima on May 15th, 2012 8:01 pm
@Slap Back The Bully: I think it's quite instructive (and in my experience unfortunately inevitable) that you claim to have "seen it all before" and then go on to ignore every single one of the examples that I provided you while at the same time bringing up some of the most commonly known and oft-refuted arguments against voluntaryism.
And where now did I say or even imply that the concept of the state has not been the product of our own desires and judgement as a citizenry? If I said or implied that anywhere, then I apologize for misspeaking, because it couldn't be farther from what I believe and have argued over and over in numerous posts and comments.
In fact, you yourself are a perfect example …
Barack Obama doesn't bother to come here and put me down for my ideas. It's other citizens, such as yourself, who are more than willing to do the job "for him". In that sense, the state is not the president or the prime minister, the state is indeed "us", or in this example more specifically "you".
Slavery, too, to a large degree rested upon slave on slave violence, because it is much less expensive to keep people in check by instilling in their minds ideas that impel them to attach one another's ideas rather than their masters'.
Why do you think it is that bureaucrats always and everywhere seems to be so keen on using extorted money to "educate" the young about how great and necessary the state is. :)
The more people are willing to think outside the box and speak the truth against pre-conceived or instilled notions, like the many brave souls posting comments on this particular post for example, the more statism will vanish into nothingness.
syrinx on May 15th, 2012 10:35 pm
Again Nima, thank you. I appreciate your thoughts.
@Slap Back the Bully, I did not realize what an expert you apparently are. I note that you haven't really provided much more than negative feedback. There is no positive take away in your comments about how we can make our current society a better one. All you have done is merely stir the pot and indicate that your way of thinking is somehow better than ours. Am I correct in assuming then, that since libertarian ideas have not been proven to work in a society at large over the course of time that we should abandon these ideas completely and simply let the state completely take over? Shall we leave things just as they are? Sorry. No can do. Whether you like it or not, things are changing and a new paradigm is taking place. There has been a shift and there will be more. More people are becoming awake and aware. And really, over the course of time is it really the citizens that have chosen "other options" or is it those we put in power that corrupt the ideal and mask what deeds they perpetrate? That is another huge offshoot to this conversation however.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
Chris on May 16th, 2012 2:34 am
This would be a interesting concept but unfortunately I doubt it would flourish without a massive public involvement keeping the government from caving to the pressure of the business that typically perform these type of jobs.
Slap Back The Bully on May 16th, 2012 12:07 pm
Well, I notice you deleted my last reply to you…so I don't know how open your forum really is or if you really want a response, or if this is just the sound of one hand clapping in here. But – I will conclude on this point: I do not think things are hunky dory, and I do think there will always be room for a significant number of libertarian solutions to many problems in society. What history tells me, however, is that a completely anarchist, libertarian state is unlikely to ever exist for long before the citizens decide other economic solutions are preferable to many issues they face. I have never embraced any ideology or economic mindset that elevates one aspect of human nature above another aspect of human nature. That's why both the idealist blatherings of the Randian/Von Mises acolytes and the Socialist/Communist acolytes have always failed ultimately when put into practical application as an overall societal structure.
Nima on May 16th, 2012 12:22 pm
@Chris: I don't believe the post above is about an "interesting concept", as much as it gives you a practical real life example of something that actually did happen in the real world. I have lots of posts where I explain and talk about concepts, but I wouldn't really consider this one of them.
fitzfilmfx on May 17th, 2012 1:32 pm
I'd say this is a good example of people who are sick of waiting around due to government bureaucracy. Obviously government must change, but I do not see this small event as a call to arms to turn into a libertarian society. It seems that whenever we hand over everything to private enterprise, the little guy is eventually squashed out of existence. Turns out human beings There is no working example of a libertarian country, or state, or even a small town. It seems like there have been attempts at it over the centuries, but It ultimately falls short. I do not fully understand this call to bring the government to it's knees, rather than try and fix the problems with it.
Nick86'D on July 18th, 2012 1:17 am
@ Slap back and fitzfilmfx. The both of you are missing the point. America was founded on libertarian ideas. Libertarianism is not new but it is much younger then statism. If you look at the whole of modern civilization excluding our hunter gatherer days we have, inch by inch, become more libertarian. Of coarse there have been back slides most notably the dark ages for those of European decent and the age of imperialism for those unfortinante enugh to be non-Caucasian between 1850 and 1914. You could argue that reliance on a centralized authority and sanctioned violence is the experiment that has failed. The theory only being able to exist in a vacuum. Hear too I have missed the point. The point is that it's the individual that matters not the collective. Individualism is tried and true. It works and it works well. I'm an idealist, I know, but I believe idealism is only as good as the ideas that form it's foundation. And it is my belife that the idea of ME demands idealism. Keeping that in mind let's not fall into the trap of using the perfect to destroy the good.
Private parks and other "trivial" libertarian issues | Forgotten Beard on January 8th, 2014 12:37 am
[...] it's not just parks. Private education, private road financing and ownership, private zoning/urban planning, free market health care alternatives, mutual aid, water markets, [...]
Roads!!! | The Art of Not Being GovernedThe Art of Not Being Governed on April 4th, 2014 9:01 am
[...] Besides, it is already happening. Private contractors who build roads do so far more efficiently than governments (believe it or not). A private road in Paris saves commuters time and the company that built it clears the road quickly when there is an obstruction. A company added two lanes to a highway in California, making them toll roads, thus giving people the option to go faster for a fee. Companies have implemented electronic tolls, obviating the slow and inefficient toll booth. But surely, citizens could never be expected to just build and maintain their own roads, could they? Oh wait, that's already happening too. [...]
The Weekly Sedition on November 29th, 2014 11:17 pm
[...] NO, we do not. [...]
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text:
My father served in the Pacific during World War II. He worked on landing craft. In the summer of 1945 he was in the Philippines, training for the invasion of Japan. Like countless other Americans who understood the role they were about to play, he did not expect to survive.
Sixty-three years ago today, the United States dropped the first of two atomic weapons on Japanese cities. The war ended. As a child, like millions of others, I grew up hearing how the atomic bomb saved my father's life.
It was only as I grew older that I began to realize exactly what that meant (take an hour to read the first few chapters of John Hersey's "Hiroshima.") Regardless of what you feel about the military and moral underpinnings of the decision, the vast percentage of the dead and deformed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not Japanese war criminals, or even soldiers. They were infants, schoolchildren, the elderly, young mothers. They had no complicity in the choices made by the rulers of Japan.
If my father was right, then I am alive - and millions upon millions of other Americans are alive - because those innocents died.
I am bound to them, and I pray for them. And whenever I waste a second of my life, I dishonor them.
- Sean
respond here, at firstname.lastname@example.com or on the forum
I attach a column from 1995 in "extended reading."
The Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY)
August 9, 1995
BY: Sean Kirst, Post-Standard columnist
Silver Nosewicz had a conversation a few days ago, just Silver and a stranger at a counter in a store. Somehow the subject of the atomic bomb came up, maybe because of some comment on the television or radio, and Silver spoke out loud about the horror of the thing.
The other guy shrugged and raised his hands, clearly bored, the bomb about as real to him as the Civil War.
That is why Silver, Sylvester Nosewicz's nickname since childhood, decided it was time. For almost 50 years, since he walked the streets of Nagasaki after one bomb brought it down, Silver has kept photographs he took amid the ruins. He was 20 years old, two years beyond stocking shelves in a grocery, when he carried his camera to ground zero.
It changed him. The photographs are his only way to explain why.
Silver was a sailor on the USS Graffias, a Naval supply ship sent to Nagasaki in September 1945. The bomb was dropped Aug. 9. Forty thousand people were killed. One hundred thousand more died within five years. The Japanese surrendered Aug. 14. All Silver knew was how the war had been ended by a new super bomb, which saved him from joining the planned invasion of Japan.
It was a comic-book image, and it did not prepare him for what he found in Nagasaki.
The Graffias docked in Nagasaki's harbor, where the ship's officers made an offer to the crew. Anyone could go for a tour of the city. It seemed a chance to witness history. They would put them on trucks and take them on a ride through the ruined town, where the roads for some mysterious reason remained clear.
From on board, the city looked like a char pit. The sailors were warned against snapping photographs. Security reasons, the Navy said. Silver had a small Kodak "Brownie" he carried through the war. He had never used it to take pictures of battle scenes. Despite the order, something compelled him to hide the camera and bring it onto shore.
"I figured someday the pictures might be worth something," says Silver, who now lives in Baldwinsville. But he never tried to sell them. When he came home to Syracuse, he put them in a metal box inside his bedroom. Every now and then, he would take them out. They sometimes triggered memories he didn't want to see. He destroyed a few photographs too painful to describe, and the rest he simply placed inside the box.
Silver now has eight grandchildren. It is children, more than anything, who make him remember Nagasaki. He chooses not to get into the specific reason for that, just as he chooses not to discuss any human remains inside the city. Some things, he said, are best left in the past.
But he worries young American adults have no notion of what suffering is about. Compared to what he saw, he said, we live in paradise. "I see kids, little kids, running around happy," he said. "And I don't think we know how lucky we are."
There are things Silver will tell you about his one-day tour. The city had melted from the top, like a candle. A few Japanese survivors begged for food or candy bars. Others stooped and picked among mounds of debris. "I guess some of them were looking for relatives," he said.
He went to a high place to look down on the city, and he struggles to describe the scope of what he saw. "Imagine you're standing in the State Tower Building," he said, "and you turn in every direction ... Nedrow. Fairmount. Solvay. Liverpool. Eastwood ... and it's gone. Dead. Burned."
The photos, he said, may get across that point. "The reason I want these in is so people can see it, can see the destruction, and then they can make their minds up for themselves," he said.
The Navy took the sailors around the city in a convoy. He remembers the scent of soot and ash, a smell akin to walking into a burned-out basement. Everything was silent, the trees brought down, the birds and insects gone. Buildings were leveled, but telephone poles remained.
The sailors spent a day in the city, and then the Navy took them back to the ship, where each man was given a quick pass with a Geiger counter. The machines squealed at the high level of radiation. The sailors were told to take a shower, and no one ever brought up the matter again.
Silver likes to think none of his officers truly understood the threat, but he worries the whole crew was used as guinea pigs. Fifty years later, his health is fine. But he has not stayed in contact with others from the ship, and he has no idea what happened to them.
His feelings on the bomb are deep and complicated. He witnessed much pain inflicted by the Japanese. He does not believe they would have surrendered, and he maintains Harry Truman made the right decision at the time. Silver puts his hand on his chest when he speaks of the Allied invasion that almost happened. "Maybe I wouldn't be here," he said. "Maybe my children, and their children, wouldn't be here."
But he cannot shake the vision of Nagasaki. What troubles him most is the idea of grandparents and parents and children, entire families and their histories, lost and incinerated.
"This is the way it went," he said. "You're sitting at a table, having dinner. You hear the drone of a plane, there's a flash, and that's it. Generations and generations, gone just like that."
He is almost 70 years old, a man who once kicked up the ashes of the atomic bomb. Some parts of the story he will always keep inside. But sometimes he tries to explain the devastation to young adults, young Americans whose biggest concern is the mortgage, and he tries to convince them it still could happen here.
They smile, distracted, and go back to their lives. Silver can remember when he was equally content.
He left that part of himself in the dust of Nagasaki.
Sean Kirst is a columnist for The Post-Standard.


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30 posts tagged with grill and bbq.
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Tell me about grilling.
I'd love to start grilling. Problems: I don't (yet) have a grill and I have a non-meat-eating partner. I have two specific questions: 1) Charcoal or gas? My dad says there's no easy answer to this... Benefits of each? Any specific grills you love or hate? 2) What can I grill for my vegetarian boyfriend? Recipes or resources would be amazing.
Unusual marinade recipes wanted
What are the most unusual but tasty marinade recipes you love? [more inside]
What is the ideal grill cleaning regimen?
Lifelong charcoal griller, recently bought a propane rig. It's great, but the combination of the lower heat and the larger cooking surface makes my "spray it with the hose, scrub off any big chunks, let it heat up over the coals for a while before throwing anything on" approach seem even more ill-advised. [more inside]
How can I put a steakhouse in my kitchen?
I'm at the point in life where I can start affording some small luxuries, and one of my longstanding dreams has been to have the ability to cook restaurant quality steak and stir-fries indoor in my home kitchen via a proper commercial grilltop. What do I need to get, and who should I talk to? Has anyone ever done this before? [more inside]
July 4th without a BBQ?
My mom, my brother and I will be celebrating July 4th by ourselves in my small apartment. I'd like to have a nice comfort food meal with them, but I don't have a barbeque or grill available. Here's what I do have: [more inside]
Looking for Stainless Steel 20lb Adapter Cable
I have a Weber Q120 grill which I love to use, but it works off those little green camping type propane tanks, so it'll go through them quickly. [more inside]
What can I grill that will take me forever?
Wife gone for the weekend: What is the most complex, time consuming recipe you have tried for any type of meat/fish/poultry on a grill? [more inside]
Gas grill using natural gas?
I'm beginning to look into propane barbeques. Now, I have a natural gas outlet/line already installed on my deck, and I'd much rather use that than deal with propane tanks. I see plenty of gas BBQ conversion kits available online, but A. How safe/easy is this conversion to do yourself? B. Does it need to be done professionally / follow some city code? [more inside]
Kamado cookers - worth it or not?
Kamado cookers - worth it or not? [more inside]
Don't touch my grill!
What's my next move with my weird neighbor? What in the world could have possibly made him do what what he just did? [more inside]
Is it me or is it Clairol? Only the BBQer knows for sure.
How do you get a steak brown, not grey, on the grill? [more inside]
Where to buy Traeger grill parts?
Anyone know where I can get a hopper/burner assembly for a Traeger grill (I have the Texas Grill, but any of their line may work)? So far internet searches have been unsuccessful. I have not yet contacted the manufacturer to see if they will sell spares, but all I can find from 3rd parties are spare internals (motors, controllers, etc)...
How much propane is in the tank?
How do I know how much cooking time is left in a tank of propane for my grill? [more inside]
Can I reuse coal that has been put out?
Barbecuefilter: Can I reuse coal that has been put out? [more inside]
Max Weber
Big Green Egg. Worth it? [more inside]
N Californian picnic lovers, help recommend a grill area!
Can anyone suggest a picnic area with bbq grill for oyster picnic near Pt. Reyes/Tomales Bay/Stinson? [more inside]
Another BBQ question
Kind of a last minute request: I'm doing a bbq at my place tomorrow for my birthday, and I'm kind of stumped as to side dishes. [more inside]
Grilling in DC sans permits?
Where can we grill outdoors, in a park-setting, in DC or Arlington -- without permits or law enforcement getting involved? [more inside]
How best to "repurpose" a dead peach tree to smoking wood for the grill?
How best to "repurpose" a dead peach tree to smoking wood for the grill? [more inside]
How do I assemble a bbq without instructions
Bought a new gas bbq grill from someone on eBay but it didn't come with the assembly instructions. How can I track the instructions down or put it together without them? [more inside]
I need a new cast iron electric bbq
Can anyone recommend an indoor electric bbq grill with cast iron or stainless steel grill? [more inside]
How to prepare shrimp to be grilled in the shell?
How should I prepare shrimp to be grilled in the shell? [more inside]
Help me replace our rusting Safari newspaper grill
Help me find a "safari grill" - the collapsible square metal box my parents used 50 years ago in Africa to grill food over burning newspaper. [more inside]
Help me bbq better!
Looking for new BBQ marinades and recipes...(mi) [more inside]
Save my steak!
My gas grill won't light properly. I read about the Flow Limiting Device (FLD) but the steps to reset it seem not to work. What is my problem, and how do I fix it? [more inside]
Reviews of the Barbecook Oyster?
Barbeque season is soon upon us (in the U.S., anyway), and I need a grill -- charcoal, not gas. I'm leaning toward the classic Weber kettle, but I'm intrigued by the Barbecook Oyster. Anyone have experience with it, and know where I might find it in the States other than directly through the manufacturer's site? [more inside]
The irony-it just burns me! My grill is on fire
oooh the irony-How do I get my grill to NOT catch fire? [more inside]
Types propane tank gages
What is a good option for an after market gas grill propane tank gage? [more inside]
How to clean cast aluminum grill
Aluminum body grill: cleaning question [more inside]
Disposing of hot charcoal at the beach
What is a safe and friendly way to dispose of hot charcoal at a sandy, lake side beach? With no fire pits or steel drums handy, should I just wait for the coals to cool and carry them out in the grill?
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July 17, 2014
Impact Sports Basketball Camp
Basketball camp is open to all guys entering 7th through 9th grade. (12-16) This is a full day camp. The camp will run from July 14th – 18th and will take place at the First Baptist Church of Rhinebeck. Please check the website for more info @ www.fbrhinebeck.org or call 845 876 4300
Celebrate Recovery presented by Real Hope Ministries
By working the Christ-centered steps and applying the principles found in the Beatitudes, we grow spiritually. We become free from our addictive, compulsive and dysfunctional behaviors. This freedom creates peace, serenity, joy and a stronger relationship with God and others.
Addicted? Grieving? Codependent? Overwhelmed with a trouble child? Adult child of an addict? Victim of abuse? Join us as we seek Him for forgiveness and healing.
Vacation Bible School – Cornwall Baptist Church
Arrow Island – Choosing God's Way. Kids K5-8th Grade. Free!
Walnut Hill Community Church Vacation Bible Camp
Come have a blast and learn how to Discover, Decide and Defend your faith at our spy themed Vacation Bible Camp July 14th-18th at our Bethel Campus, July 21st-25th at our New Milford Campus and August 11th-15th at our Waterbury campus. Sign up on line at www.walnuthillcc.org
Vacation Bible School
At the Fishkill Baptist Church Agency D3, children uncover clues to find out who Jesus really is. VBS runs from July 14-18, 9AM-12PM. We are now enrolling students who will be entering kindergarten through completed 6th grade. For information visit fishkillbaptist.net.
Morning Star Christian Fellowship's Youth Ministry – Vacation Bible School (VBS)
"Jungle Safari" is the theme for Morning Star Christian Fellowship's 2014 summer youth camp. Morning sessions will be held in Kingston from Monday, July 14th through Friday, July 18th for youth ages 4 – 13. No fees are required. For registration information call 845 339 5199.
Christ Church VBS- International Spy Academy
Christ Church Vacation Bible School presents International Spy Academy; Agents for the One True God! July 14 through 17th between 6:00-8:30! Ages 4 through 12. Free Event !
Sacred Heart Parish Carnival
Fun for all ages! Rides, food, entertainment, games, and more. Join us July 17-20, 2014: Thurs., Fri., Sat.: 6-11 pm and Sun. 1-6 pm.
Courageous Kids VBS–FREE!
Lattingtown Christian Fellowship is happy to announce this year's VBS program. From July 16-18, from 6-9pm, we will be presenting "Courageous Kids" "Courageous Kids" is an interactive experience for kids ages 3-13+. It's a fun way for kids to learn about the God who created them and loves them, and the relationship they can have by opening their hearts to Jesus through stories, skits, games, snacks, and crafts. For more information or to register, please go to www.lattingtownchurch.com or call or email Bethany at firstname.lastname@example.com 845.527.8933.
Mega Sports Camp
Crossroads Assembly of God invites you to bring your children Pre-K to 6th grade to Mega Sports Camp July 14th to July 18th, 6:30pm to 8:30pm . Mega Sports Camp is a program that teaches kids sports basics while inspiring them to live out for God.


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Sure you can go around and tell everyone how dedicated you are to the LSU Tigers, but there is a much easier way to get your point across. Let everyone you pass know that you are a born and bred LSU Tigers fan with this Prime T-shirt! This tee boasts your team pride with LSU Tigers graphics. There are many ways to show your spirit, but this way you won't lose your voice.
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STARmeterSEE RANK
Down 1,920 this week
Jim Davis (II)
Jim Davis was born on July 28, 1945 in Marion, Indiana, USA as James Robert Davis. He is a writer and producer, known for Garfield (2004), Garfield 2 (2006) and Garfield and Friends (1988). He has been married to Jill Davis since July 16, 2000. They have two children. He was previously married to Carolyn Davis. See full bio »
Born:in Marion, Indiana, USA


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The music business is an exciting and inspiring industry. Whether you want to be in the spotlight making music or behind the scenes influencing music, we can help you tap into your talent.
What You'll Learn
Learn about the latest technology and theories to succeed in the music industry.
Who You'll Work With
Professors are experts in the music industry and are heavily involved in extracurricular activities with our music ensembles.
Why Study at JCSU?
We'll prepare you for graduate study or a career as a performer, a leader in the church or work in the music business.


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I found it amazingly useful. At the lab, I used to use a single LCD monitor and the times I was with my laptop there, it was always a pain to stretch for typing or moving the cursor (just for the record, I'm not fat!). Now with Synergy I can share smoothly my desktop keyboard with my laptop (also at home).
On Ubuntu, you may find Synergy and Quicksynergy (graphical interface for synergy - very good and simple) at Synaptic Package Manager. Just type in "synergy" and install both.
Between Linux machines, just use Quicksynergy. On the server machine (the one you want to share from) go to the Share tab and type in the machines hostnames (cat /etc/hostname for retrieving the hostname if you don't know) on the positions you want. On the clients (that will use the shared peripherals) just go to the Use tab and type in the hostname or the IP address of the server.
If you want to add a Windows machine as a client, it's as easy as on Linux. Install Synergy from their website and just type in the IP address or hostname of the server.
If you want to have your Windows as server, you'll need to do some configuration. On the configuration Screen, click on the Configure button besides "Screens & Links".
Synergy main window
Screens & Links configuration window
(Here's one of my screens config. you really don't have to do much here, just type in the hostname in aliases).
Screens & Links configuration window
On the top of the window you may see the Screens frame. There you will add which screens you'll use. I didn't read the documentation, so I really don't know if this is correct: I supposed screen name is just the name that appears on windows Synergy application, and the aliases should be the hostnames. Anyways, it worked this way.
(Here's one of my screens config. you really don't have to do much here, just type in the hostname in aliases).
Once you added your screens, you must now add the links. They're all about positioning your screens the way you want it. It's very intuitive, and I think this one you should try yourself. :-)
Have fun!
Have fun!


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KALAMAZOO, MI -- Members of KPEP and the Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety spent Earth Day building an outdoor literacy space and cleaning up part of Kalamazoo's Northside neighborhood.
Seven KPEP members and two KDPS community policing officers helped the Northside Association for Community Development start building its "Literacy for Life" park by planting trees, sweeping and completing other tasks.
"We're out here getting the skeleton together today," said Kalamazoo Public Safety Officer Brandon. Noble, a community policing officer in the Northside neighborhood, helped at the park construction and the cleanup of Ada and Woodbury streets with the group and fellow PSO Rebecca VanBrocklin, a community policing officer for the Eastside neighborhood.
The park will include an awning and a greenhouse where children can participate in structured learning and also participate in summer camps on arts, science and technology, said Mattie Jordan-Woods, NACD executive director.
"(Mattie's) main goal is to create an area where people can gather in the community and enjoy outside," Noble said.
The park will include large ABCs along one fence, a performing arts stage and multiplication tables under the awning, Jordan-Woods said. Jordan-Woods said the park will include commercial gardening spaces where children can learn to grow food.
"We're teaching them to be entrepreneurs as well," Jordan-Woods said.
Noble said the seven KPEP workers will receive credit toward their community service requirements for the probation program.
Kain Nickrent, 20, of Mattawan, said all of the KPEP workers were in the program for different reasons, but that it was nice to be improving the Northside neighborhood.
"It's nice to be outside and it's Earth Day," Nickrent said.
Construction on the next phase of the literacy park will be from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. Saturday, May 31. It is open to the public.
Emily Monacelli covers local government and beer for the Kalamazoo Gazette. Contact her at firstname.lastname@example.com or follow her on Twitter.


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AUSTIN, Texas, Aug. 26, 2011 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- 360 Mortgage Group, a privately-owned wholesale mortgage bank, welcomes Mary Mortensen as an account executive in the Southern California region. Mortensen brings more than 25 years of mortgage industry experience to this role.
Prior to joining 360 Mortgage Group, Mortensen worked as a senior wholesale loan executive for Fremont Bank, Reunion Mortgage and Chevy Chase Bank. Mortensen also worked as a senior wholesale loan executive, wholesale loan coordinator, retail loan processor and loan service representative for First Federal Bank of California.
Mortensen was a recipient of First Federal Bank of California's prestigious "President Circle Award" for three years consecutively and completed several in-house education programs with the bank, as well. She earned an associate degree focusing on the Arts and Science from Santa Barbara City College.
"Before working at 360 Mortgage Group, it was very difficult to get out in the field and see brokers because of all the emails and underwriting questions," Mortensen said. "When I saw that 360 had incorporated an underwriting chat button into their system, I was sold."
"So many companies today do not allow brokers to communicate with their underwriters, and this is a big disservice. I love the fact that the brokers here will have all the info they need at their fingertips, giving me freedom to cultivate new business. I hit the jackpot here because 360 has both the technology aspect and employees who are friendly, dedicated, and responsive," she said
"I've known Mary for 20 years," said Buzz Doxey, owner of Sun Coast Financial. "The thing about Mary is her follow up. How our company conducts itself is very important, and I need fair rates and service. Mary will always take care of her end. If I need her to do something, I know it will get done."
About 360 Mortgage Group, LLC:
Established in 2007, 360 Mortgage Group LLC (www.360mtg.com) is a privately owned mortgage bank that has successfully utilized its high-technology platform to provide better communication and customer service to business partners. An approved Fannie Mae seller/servicer, 360 Mortgage Group is centralized in Austin, Texas and services more than 25 cities across the United States.
- RSS news feed for 360 Mortgage Group: http://send2pressnewswire.com/author/360-mortgage-group-llc/feed .
Mary Mortensen Becomes 360 Mortgage Group's Newest Account Executive
AUSTIN, Texas, Aug. 26, 2011 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- 360 Mortgage Group, a privately-owned wholesale mortgage bank, welcomes Mary Mortensen as an account executive in the Southern California region. Mortensen brings more than 25 years of mortgage industry experience to this role.
Rights granted for reproduction by any legitimate news organization. However, if news is cloned/scraped verbatim, then original attribution must be maintained with link back to this page as "original syndication source." Resale of this content for commercial purposes is prohibited without a license. Reproduction on any site selling a competitive service is also prohibited. Information is believed accurate, as provided by news source or authorized agency, however is not guaranteed, and you assume all risk for use of any information found herein/hereupon. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License.
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Can you get a completed version of the uzi blueprints.
I am looking for micro and mini uzi blueprints do yo have any idea where I could find them.
where did you get these blueprints from although they are only for the reciever and some other basic parts they are good.
Can you please tell me where you got these blueprints from because I would like to see what else they have.
I would like the mini and Micro Uzi blueprints in both calibres if possible or just in there standard callibre and if you know of a link for the conversion manuals then that would be useful but 22 calibre blueprints of mini and micro Uzi's are what I have been looking for and I have been doing it for a while with only blueprints which are incomplete of the reciever.
I have a several page document with uzi reciever blueprints showing closeup views of all parts and I have upper and lower reciever blueprints.
I would be intrested in getting a set of complete blueprints for the standard Uzi and a conversion to 22 calibre manual for that. Any of these blueprints would be useful to me because I have been looking for them for a while and it annoys me having semi complete stuff.
If I had a full copy of standard Uzi blueprints I would be able to re-design it to a smaller size and caliber to, but I would like it if you could post a copy of the blueprints you designed and an instruction list of what you have to do to convert it. This would help me in many ways and for some other design projects aswell so I would be grateful for a copy of any of these blueprints and an instruction manual on conversion and a manual on how you reduced the size of the standard Uzi.
To reduce size makes sense but you need to know everthing that you need to do to convert tne size and calibre and you have to start witha detailed accurate set of blueprints which contains all parts in detail otherwise you would have to guess the dimensions of alot of pieces. If you have accurate blueprints you can work to a ratio and that would be a guideline on the size's required for each part.
I would like to know how the reduced Uzi turned out? did it work well and was it hard to design and make? I am only interested in the design aspects really but It all sounds interesting.
Please give me any blueprints you can and any information you can about size reduction and calibre conversion because these are two areas where I know the theory but have never tried to redesign anything yet because I wouldn't want to make a mistake.
It would be a great help for many reasons if you would do this for me Thanks CH33
Here are some blueprints I have and this is all I have for the standard Uzi it is the same thing in both just one is a closeup view so it a few pages longer, They might be useful to someone though
I have these same prints, which I got off of www.uzitalk.com
They are 95% accurate. But in comparing the listed specs with the measurements I was able to make off of the remnants of receiver in my parts kit, I noticed some discrepancies, specifically with regard to the hieght of the receiver from the base underside to the top of the sidewalls.
If you have receiver remnants against which to check, I strongly urge you do so. When the specs on the sheet are in conflict with what the receiver remnants tell me, I'll go with the receiver remnants.
On the receivers I have built, whether from scratch or stamped Group Industries Recievers, I have done the final fitting of the top cover with a file, adjusting the height of the sidewalls until it gave the proper clearance with a bolt. There was "excess metal" on my Group Ind receivers as well, which may have been made from this print.
You need to do this "sidewall adjustment" before you weld in the rear sight and front sight bases in my opinion .
I have not built any 22 versions, just 9mm versions to answer an earlier question.
Does anyone have the dimensions for the mini-Uzi striker?
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Temp THC burns, decarbs, and bonds?
Discussion in 'Cooking With Cannabis' started by Gamberro, Jan 31, 2008.
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I came Across this today, Give your Feedback!
1) Will it be embraced or rejected?
2) how do you think it will do with Overclocking?
3) Will this make the GPU Market More Expensive?
watch this Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1hB4yKjBt0&feature=feedu
AMD(ATi) has been running a raytracing system on their cards for a generation, too.
The plus is that raytracing accurately samples light flow, so multilayering (skin, plants, etc.), soft shadowing, etc., happens naturally by simulating real light situations. Will games get into it? Not for a while, because the problem is that as raytracing is very detailed, scaling for system performance will be a nightmare, where with OpenGL/Dx9/10/11 can simply turn off a feature to reduce graphics load. Raytracing has no features, it is simply simulating light.
I think the overclocking question is a little simple minded. If you want better performance without spending money, you OC, and this technological aspect will be no different.
As for price, the current generation of GPUs are already doing raytracing. I see little chance of an increase just because of this push for graphic accuracy.
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TUSCALOOSA -- A ferocious pass rush formed in Alabama's final four games last season.
Marcell Dareus looked like a grizzly bear prancing around the Bryant-Denny Stadium grass, chasing, catching and devouring former Auburn quarterback Cam Newton at one point like a fish.
Courtney Upshaw ratcheted up his statistics as he terrorized backfields before exploding in a 49-7 Capital One Bowl win as Alabama knocked out two Michigan State quarterbacks. Upshaw finished with 15 tackles in his final two games, including 5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and a quarterback hurry.
That would fit Nick Saban's definition of "affecting the quarterback."
"We went into that game just wanting to get that bad taste out of our mouths," Upshaw said. "We were real confident. I know coming into this season, as a defensive whole, I know as a team that we're just ready step up our game and get back to the top."
In Alabama's first nine games of 2010, it amassed just 11 sacks, 43 tackles for loss and 21 quarterback hurries. In the final four games: 16 sacks, 32 tackles for loss and 31 quarterback hurries.
"We had it in us," Alabama nose guard Josh Chapman said of the pass rush. "It's just something we didn't practice hard at. That's one thing we're doing now. We want to stop the run. Nobody was gonna run the ball. Now we want nobody to pass the ball or run the ball."
And despite the wealth of talent and experience returning to the Crimson Tide defense, there are holes to fill among other questions.
Dareus, who played one defensive end spot, is a few weeks away from becoming a multi-millionaire after declaring early for the NFL draft and being projected as the possible No. 1 pick. Kerry Murphy occupied the other spot, but he is out this spring coping with knee problems that could end his career.
That put a premium on landing two of the nation's top junior college transfers in Jesse Williams and Quinton Dial.
Williams is a 6-4, 319-pound Australian from Arizona Western College. Dial is a 6-6, 294-pounder from Clay-Chalkville via East Mississippi Community College. The highly heralded duo is expected to compete immediately for starting spots and, with just two years at Alabama, they are hungry.
"Jesse learns pretty fast, and Dial has great technique," Chapman said. "Those guys are going to have major roles next year."
It's the responsibility of first-year Alabama defensive line coach Chris Rumph to groom his players. Chapman said his teaching techniques mesh well with the lessons learned from former line coach Bo Davis, now at Texas.
"They're gonna help," Upshaw said of Williams and Dial. "They can play anywhere. Getting to the QB is our No. 1 goal as a D-line and outside backers. I just feel everybody's going to make plays."
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