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Scalable Obesity Treatments: Time For Pharma To Step Up
In my two previous posts (here and here), I have discussed the urgent need for obesity treatments that are scalable to the size of the problem. I explained why neither "lifestyle" nor surgery are scalable to the millions of Canadians who would stand to benefit from obesity treatments.
No doubt, not everyone with a BMI over 30 needs treatment. As I also discussed, we should target treatments (especially with anti-obesity medications) to those who are actually experiencing an obesity related impairment in health, especially those with comorbidities that are not well controlled and who are otherwise good candidates for treatment.
As I calculated, this reduces the number of Canadians that would really need to be treated for obesity from about 7,000,000 to perhaps 1,250,000 – roughly half the number of Canadians currently living with diabetes, a chronic disease that is routinely managed with medical treatments.
Many of these would no doubt stand to benefit from surgical treatments, but at the current rate of about 10,000 surgeries a year (a number that is unlikely to dramatically increase in the foreseeable future), I see no alternative than the use of anti-obesity medications.
This is where we have a real problem.
While for any patient with diabetes or hypertension who walks through my door, I have over 100 possible prescription medications to pick from, including an almost limitless number of possible combinations, for obesity I have almost nothing.
The two only prescription medications for obesity currently approved in Canada are orlistat and liraglutide. The former is moderately effective but is handicapped by unpleasant side effects. The latter, is an injectable hormone-analogue, where access is limited by cost (in Canada about $15 a day).
Obviously, not everyone will tolerate or respond to either of these medications. This is not unexpected. In fact this is the very reason that we have so many different classes of drugs for the treatment of other chronic diseases like hypertension or diabetes – what works for one patient does not work (or is not tolerated) by another.
So why do we not have more therapeutic options for obesity treatment?
The only answer that springs to mind is that Big Pharma is not putting the same dedication and resources behind developing anti-obesity drugs compared to what they are pouring into other indication areas.
Thus, while Big Pharma is busy developing and appears to be launching new drugs for diabetes almost every other month, nothing remotely comparable is happening in the obesity space.
thus, virtually every multinational pharmaceutical company has active development programs for diabetes.
In contrast, almost no multinational pharmaceutical company has an active development program for obesity worth speaking of.
The only reason that I can think of why a Novartis, Pfizer, Roche, Sanofi, Merck or any of the other major pharmaceutical companies are not investing in finding, developing, and bringing new anti-obesity drugs to market to fill this gaping therapeutic gap, is that they do not expect to make money with anti-obesity drugs.
This is largely because, as we have seen with past introductions of anti-obesity drugs, medications for obesity are seldom covered by pharma benefit plans or public formularies, making access to these drugs for a relevant number of patients difficult.
This lack of coverage of obesity drugs has little to do with the actual cost of new medications. In fact, even the currently most expensive anti-obesity drug in Canada works out to only around $5,000 a year – a sum that drug benefit plans routinely spend on managing patients with diabetes year after year after year.
So if it is not the cost of treating obesity that is prohibitive, why do most people who would stand to benefit from obesity treatments (and remember, we are only talking about half as many people who are currently being treated for diabetes) not have access to obesity treatments?
My guess is that this has a lot to do with the fact that obesity (in contrast to hypertension or diabetes), is still not widely seen as a chronic disease requiring treatment in its own right.
For one, most doctors have never prescribed a medication for obesity – they were simply never trained to do so.
In addition, employers (who generally pay for their employee benefit plans) are offered the option of opting out of covering obesity treatments (drugs or otherwise) – unfortunately, most employers do.
Of course, I understand that prescriptions medications (even after their regulatory approval and meeting the relevant efficacy and safety standards) should only be covered if they promise real health benefits, which of course have to be demonstrated in clinical trials.
But we will never have those new medications or the trials that prove their efficacy, if companies believe that despite all efforts, their medications will not recoup the investments or make profits for their shareholders.
This is where policy makers need to step in.
For one, governments could consider providing significant incentives (e.g. tax breaks?) to Big Pharma to devote resources specifically towards developing new medications for obesity.
Secondly, governments must streamline the approval process for new obesity medications in a way that will ensure that these treatments become available to those who stand to benefit (and I don't mean anyone who is hoping to lose a couple of pounds to fit into their wedding dress – I mean people with at least Edmonton Stage 2 obesity, especially those with poorly controlled obesity related health problems).
Thirdly, employers and benefit plans should no longer have the option of opting out of paying for obesity treatments (in the same manner that they cannot chose to simply not cover diabetes or hypertension or any other chronic disease).
I believe that if these measures were implemented, at least some of the big pharmaceutical companies will reassess their position on developing safe and effective anti-obesity medications.
With more pharmacological options (and more competition in the market place), I see no reason why the standard for obesity care cannot be on par with what is currently routinely offered for patients with diabetes, hypertension or most other chronic diseases.
Without these policy changes, I fear that we will never have obesity treatments that are scalable to address the size of the problem.
The time for policy makers to act is now!
Edmonton, AB
Post script: I harbour no illusion that any change in policy in Canada alone will make any difference to Big Pharma – after all, the Canadian pharma sales are only about 2% of the global market. Rather, it would take a consortium of countries, including the biggest markets, to make a joint decision regarding any such policies. Sadly, I believe that the chances for this in the current political climate are rather remote – but, then again, we can always hope…
We Desperately Need Scalable Treatments For Obesity
Obesity, defined as the presence of abnormal or excess body fat that impairs health, currently affects 100s of millions of people worldwide.
Although "weight-loss" is a booming global multi-billion dollar business, we desperately lack effective long-term treatments for this chronic disease – the vast majority of people who fall prey to the natural supplement, diet, and fitness industry will on occasion manage to lose weight – but few will keep it off.
Thus, there is little evidence that the majority (or even just a significant proportion) of people trying to lose weight with help of the "commercial weight loss industry" will experience long-term health benefits.
When it comes to evidence-based treatments, there is ample evidence that behavioural interventions can help patients achieve and sustain important health benefits, but the magnitude of sustainable weight loss is modest (3-5% of initial weight at best).
Furthermore, although one may think that "behavioural" or "lifestyle" interventions are cost-effective, this is by no means the case. Successful behaviour change requires significant intervention by trained health professionals, a limited and expensive resource to which most patients will never have access. Moreover, there is ample evidence showing maintenance of long-term behaviour change requires significant on-going resources in terms of follow-up visits – thus adding to the cost.
This severely limits the scalability of behavioural treatments for obesity.
If for example, every Canadian with obesity (around 7,000,000) met with a registered dietitian just twice a year on an ongoing basis (which is probably far less than required to sustain ongoing behaviour change), the Canadian Health Care system would need to provide 14,000,000 dietitian consultations for obesity alone.
Given that there are currently fewer than 10,000 registered dietitians in Canada, each dietitian would need to do 14,000 consultations for obesity annually (~ 70 consultations per day) or look after approximately 7,000 clients living with obesity each year. Even if some of these consultations were not done by dietitians but by less-qualified health professionals, it is easy to see how this approach is simply not scalable to the size of the problem.
A similar calculation can be easily made for clinical psychologists or exercise physiologists.
Thus, behavioural interventions for obesity, delivered by trained and licensed healthcare professionals are simply not a scalable (or cost-effective) option.
At the other extreme, we now have considerable long-term data supporting the morbidity, mortality, and quality of life benefits of bariatric surgery. However, bariatric surgery is also not scalable to the magnitude of the problem
There are currently well over 1,500,000 Canadians living with obesity that is severe enough to warrant the costs and risks of surgery. However, at the current pace of 10,000 surgeries a year (a number that is unlikely to dramatically increase in the near future), it would take over 150 years to operate every Canadian with severe obesity alive today.
This is where we have to look at how Canada has made significant strides in managing the millions of Canadians living with other chronic diseases?
How are we managing the over 5,000,000 Canadians living with hypertension?
How are we managing the over 2.5 million Canadians living with diabetes?
How are we managing the over 1.5 million Canadians living with heart disease?
The answer to all is – with the help of prescription medications.
There are now millions of Canadians who benefit from their daily dose of blood pressure-, glucose-, and cholesterol-lowering medications. The lives saved by the use of these medications in Canada alone is in the 10s of thousands each year.
So, if millions of Canadians take medications for other chronic diseases (clearly a scalable approach), where are the medications for obesity?
Sadly, there are currently only two prescription medications available to Canadians (neither scalable, one due to cost the other due to unacceptable side effects).
So what would it take to find treatments for obesity that are scalable to the magnitude of the problem?
More on that in tomorrow's post.
Edmonton, Ab
Will WHO STOPS Childhood Obesity Promote Weight Bias And Unhealthy Body Image?
Childhood obesity is a grave concern and so far community based interventions to prevent it have been rare and far between, with little evidence that any changes (however meagre) are in fact sustainable over time and will actually lead to a reduction in adult obesity.
Thus, the Australian team of Steven Allander and colleagues must be commended on embarking on what I believe will be the first cluster randomized trial in ten communities in the Great South Coast Region of Victoria, Australia to test whether it is possible to: (1) strengthen community action for childhood obesity prevention, and (2) measure the impact of increased action on risk factors for childhood obesity.
According to the trial design published in the International Journal of Environmental Research in Public Health, the WHO STOPS intervention will involve a facilitated community engagement process that: creates an agreed systems map of childhood obesity causes for a community; identifies intervention opportunities through leveraging the dynamic aspects of the system; and, converts these understandings into community-built, systems-oriented action plans.
Ten communities will be randomized (1:1) to intervention or control in year one and all communities will be included by year three.
The primary outcome is childhood obesity prevalence among grade two (ages 7–8 y), grade four (9–10 y) and grade six (11–12 y) students measured using established community-led monitoring system (69% school and 93% student participation rate in government and independent schools).
An additional group of 13 external communities from other regions of Victoria with no specific interventions will provide an external comparison.
All of this makes sense and is highly commendable.
What is shockingly lacking however – at least I see no mention of this in the published study design – is the inclusion of an explicit focus on what such community interventions aimed at reducing childhood obesity, will do to self-esteem and body image of the kids involved and weight bias in the communities overall.
Indeed, I see no mention of anyone with an explicit expertise in weight bias or kids mental health on the panel of researchers involved in this study.
This is concerning, as we now understand well that body image concerns and both implicit and explicit weight bias begin in kindergarten-age kids and must acknowledge that the "moral panic" created around childhood obesity has been accused of further promoting eating disorders, body image issues and weight bias.
Thus, we have here the unique opportunity to study the potential harm that could be done by school "surveillance" programs that assess body weight in kids or by the well-meant education on "healthy activity and healthy eating" that may teach kids that obesity is simply a result of making poor choices and not moving enough (rather than a complex biopsychosocial chronic disease, that is highly resistant to lasting effects of time-limited interventions).
I would sincerely appeal to the researchers involved to amend their study protocol to include changes in weight bias, unhealthy weight obsessions, body image issues, and eating disorders both at the level of the kids and the community overall, to ensure that the well-meant interventions do not inadvertently replace one problem with another – as always, the Devil of public health interventions lies in the unintended consequences.
In fact, if I was on the ethics committee tasked with approving this study, I would insist that an in-depth assessment plan for the potential harm of this intervention be in place before commencement of any study related activities in the relevant communities.
If the overall goal of the WHO STOPS intervention is to have a healthier generation of kids, nothing is more important than fully understanding the potential impact of this intervention on mental health and social attitudes towards kids and adults living with obesity.
Copenhagen, DK
5th Canadian Obesity Summit – Four More Days To Submit Your Abstracts!
Every two years the Canadian Obesity Network holds its National Obesity Summit – the only national obesity meeting in Canada covering all aspects of obesity – from basic and population science to prevention and health promotion to clinical management and health policy.
Anyone who has been to one of the past four Summits has experienced the cross-disciplinary networking and breaking down of silos (the Network takes networking very seriously).
Of all the scientific meetings I go to around the world, none has quite the informal and personal feel of the Canadian Obesity Summit – despite all differences in interests and backgrounds, everyone who attends is part of the same community – working on different pieces of the puzzle that only makes sense when it all fits together in the end.
The 5th Canadian Obesity Summit will be held at the Banff Springs Hotel in Banff National Park, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, located in the heart of the Canadian Rockies (which in itself should make it worth attending the summit), April 25-29, 2017.
Yesterday, the call went out for abstracts and workshops – the latter an opportunity for a wide range of special interest groups to meet and discuss their findings (the last Summit featured over 20 separate workshops – perhaps a tad too many, which is why the program committee will be far more selective this time around).
So here is what the program committee is looking for:
- Basic science – cellular, molecular, physiological or neuronal related aspects of obesity
- Epidemiology – epidemiological techniques/methods to address obesity related questions in populations studies
- Prevention of obesity and health promotion interventions – research targeting different populations, settings, and intervention levels (e.g. community-based, school, workplace, health systems, and policy)
- Weight bias and weight-based discrimination – including prevalence studies as well as interventions to reduce weight bias and weight-based discrimination; both qualitative and quantitative studies
- Pregnancy and maternal health – studies across clinical, health services and population health themes
- Childhood and adolescent obesity – research conducted with children and or adolescents and reports on the correlates, causes and consequences of pediatric obesity as well as interventions for treatment and prevention.
- Obesity in adults and older adults – prevalence studies and interventions to address obesity in these populations
- Health services and policy research – reaserch addressing issues related to obesity management services which idenitfy the most effective ways to organize, manage, finance, and deliver high quality are, reduce medical errors or improve patient safety
- Bariatric surgery – issues that are relevant to metabolic or weight loss surgery
- Clinical management – clinical management of overweight and obesity across the life span (infants through to older adults) including interventions for prevention and treatment of obesity and weight-related comorbidities
- Rehabilitation – investigations that explore opportunities for engagement in meaningful and health-building occupations for people with obesity
- Diversity – studies that are relevant to diverse or underrepresented populations
- eHealth/mHealth – research that incorporates social media, internet and/or mobile devices in prevention and treatment
- Cancer – research relevant to obesity and cancer
…..and of course anything else related to obesity.
Deadline for submission is October 24, 2016
To submit an abstract or workshop – click here
For more information on the 5th Canadian Obesity Summit – click here
For sponsorship opportunities – click here
Looking forward to seeing you in Banff next year!
Edmonton, AB
My Critical Review Of Critical Fat Studies: Obesity In Canada
A few weeks ago, I was invited by the Editor of The Lancet Diabetes & Endocrinology to review Obesity in Canada, a collection of articles by Canadian and Australian authors, who identify themselves as "fat scholars" engaging in "critical fat studies". (Edited by Jenny Ellison, Deborah McPhail, and Wendy Mitchinson).
Obviously, I have had multiple interactions with "fat scholars" over the years and have certainly always learnt a lot.
Indeed, I would be the first to admit that many of my own ideas about obesity, including the issue of whether or not obesity is a disease and, if so, how to define the clinical problem of obesity in a manner that does not automatically label a quarter of the population as "diseased", has been shaped by this discourse.
Similarly, my own notions about obesity management, with a primary goal to improve health and well-being rather than simply moving numbers on the scale, are clearly influenced by ideas that first emerged from the "fat acceptance camp" (not exactly the same, but close enough).
Thus, there was certainly much in this compendium that I was already quite familiar with – which certainly made the reading of this 500 page volume most enjoyable.
Nevertheless, it is important to realise that "fat scholars" do not just see themselves as "scientists" – rather, they see the practice of "fat studies" as a political work, tightly (some might say dogmatically) bound to a frame of reference that is reminiscent of political "activism" rather than "science".
Fat scholars (at least the ones represented in this volume) are not just critical of, but also appear most happy to discard the entire biomedical and population health discourse around obesity, as nothing more than (I paraphrase), "a thinly-veiled conspiracy by the biomedical establishment to create a moral panic that justifies the reassertion of normative identities pertaining to gender, race, class, and sexuality."
Accordingly, some fat scholars appear to be of the rather strong opinion that there is in fact no "global obesity epidemic" and even if there are perhaps a few more fat people around today than ever before, the health consequences of obesity are vastly overblown, and any recommendations or attempts to lose weight are not only ineffective but actually harmful.
Now, before you simply roll your eyes and decide to file away the whole exercise in the drawer that you reserve for global-warming deniers and anti-vaxxers, let me assure you that there is indeed a lot to be learnt from the discourse (at least I did).
For one, there are absolutely fascinating chapters on the history of fat activism in Canada (which apparently dates back to the early 70s), enlightening perspectives on Indigenous People's encounters with obesity, the issue of "mother blaming", and even a chapter on fat authenticity and the pursuit of hetero-romantic love in Vancouver.
There are stories about how kids and families experience childhood obesity intervention programs and how primary school teachers themselves struggle with being thrust into a role of being role models while struggling with their own personal response to the pervasive obesity messages.
Obviously, there are some ideas that may be harder to swallow than others.
Take for e.g, the notion that the "root cause" of fat phobia (at least according to fat scholars who rely on postmodern feminism, psychoanalysis, and queer theories), is simply a reflection of the femininity ascribed to body fat: because women need fat to menstruate, body fat can be seen as female reproductive material that, in patriarchy, must be contained, restrained, and ultimately eliminated.
Personally, I can no doubt think of a wide range of other "root causes" that would result in "fat phobia" and "weight stigma" without having to quite delve into feminism or queer theories – but that's another story.
Or the notion that there is in fact no link between body fat and diabetes – something that is easily refuted by a host of experimental animal studies and clinical observations (which, in the world of "fat scholars" do not appear to exist or are for some opaque reason deemed entirely irrelevant for the discourse).
Nevertheless, these "peculiarities" aside, I do admit that I found the book a very timely, relevant and enlightening read for anyone who is seriously interested in the issue of obesity and bold enough to step out beyond the typical biomedical discourse.
I would most certainly recommend this volume to people working in health policy and public health but also to clinicians, who seek to better understand some of the social aspects of the obesity discourse as it relates to their patients.
There is much in the volume that I perhaps disagree with or rather, see from a different perspective (I am after all a clinician) – however, openness to entertaining alternative views and ideas, and willingness to shift your own opinion and beliefs when new evidence emerges, is the defining characteristic of good scholarship – and I certainly remain a lifelong student.
Edmonton, AB
Disclaimer: I was given a complimentary copy of Obesity in Canada to review by the Lancet Diabetes & Endocrinology


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New Wireless Switches Think Small
Wireless LAN switches have many smaller companies and remote offices thinking 'thin.'With the rapid proliferation of centralized wireless LAN solutions geared toward smaller networks (and priced accordingly), eWEEK Labs expects that more small businesses and remote offices will turn to the wireless switch platform and its "thin" access points. Despite recent contractions in the marketplace, wireless switches are an extremely attractive alternative to "thick," or intelligent, access points for enterprises of all sizes. Many of the early wireless switch systems were targeted at midsize and larger networks, but the combination of services that newer devices deliver is just as compelling for smaller networks, given the right price point and port density.
Last years ratification of the IEEE 802.11i security standard and the resulting WPA2 (Wi-Fi Protected Access 2) certification program have solved the encryption problems that plagued early WLANs and allowed businesses of all sizes to begin seriously considering adoption of wireless technology. But taking advantage of 802.11i means replacing devices that cant support the standards AES (Advanced Encryption Standard).
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3e Scène
Explore now
Find full information on subscriptions in the relevant section of You and the Opera :
To book individual seats consult the relevant section of You and the Opera :
In the space of a weekend enjoy a performance at the Paris Opera and another at the Comédie-Française
Your new discount card ! Alone or accompanied, enjoy a 20% reduction on a selection of performances as soon as you purchase your Pass' Opéra.
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|Reviews for Alternative Solutions
| Meteoricshipyards chapter 1 . 11/8/2012
Very well done. I miss that show. (Of course, while it was on, I missed most of the shows because my wife didn't like it, but whatever...)
Thanks for the story.
Tom A.
| fantasyinmymind chapter 1 . 10/13/2008
Delightful. I liked the way things worked out.
| Nyiestra chapter 1 . 2/1/2007
Wonderful job! This really read like an episode. You have their particular mods of interaction down pat.
| JandDkraz chapter 1 . 12/14/2004
well i read, i love and i could definately see this on the show, if not all at least most and btw, you are keeping us in the dark. did Sam REALLY walk into the door? Hmm, I'll wonder as I continue reading more stories from you. Nicely done and I hope to see more soon.
| magnolia chapter 1 . 1/4/2003
I really liked this. It read just like a real West Wing script to me. Very in-character, with the people and the general feel of the show. And I love how it was Margaret's quote! Great job.
| BenRG chapter 1 . 8/29/2002
I'm typing this review as I read, so pray pardon if it seems unstructured and a bit random.
Firstly I have to say this: "Your future, Donna! I am not having a sex change!" XD That is so funny and /so/ Josh! I could see it happen in an episode. I could also see all the staffers in the Bullpen staring at him, mouths hanging open.
Leo and Bartlett's exchange about the mystery quote also makes me laugh. How typical of the President to boil something down to its' most uncomfortable fundamental aspect: "It makes us look unprofessional." "Because we tell the truth?" Then the comment about making up wiht Abbey: "I need a strategy." "Or a personality transplant." XD
I like the Charlie/Bartlett banter a lot. Charlie's good-natured confusion and willingness to do the job even if he doesn't understand it is completely in character.
"You might also let them know that the White House Deputy Chief of Communications has difficulty walking through doors" "It's a real red-letter day for this administration." XD
I loved the bit with Sam and Toby brainstorming. That is another moment that I could clearly see in my head.
I might have got a bit repetative typing in quotes and how much I liked a bit, but this was a wonderful story. In fact, I could have seen this as an episode of The West Wing. Such a wonderful story. Well done for your hard work!
BenRG's Rating: 9/10
| jesssica rosethorn chapter 1 . 7/15/2002
ahhH! for once a very good ending for a west wing episode! very realistic, i love the dialogue! etc..etc... i really like how for once they seem to give money to the right place...and that abbey and the president make up! cute..
| denbigh chapter 1 . 5/21/2002
hahah. this is a WICKED story. i love the whole story, especially the chocolate brownies. i'd love to see it on TWW
| AndYourPointIs chapter 1 . 5/15/2002
Nomad, that was FANTABULOUS! You got the voices down for everyone, had the wit rolling out left and right, and you got Margaret in there defending Leo! Yay! I loved the whole thing with the chocolate brownies as well. Maybe if Sorkin continues his writing downward spiral, we should petition the show to get you a part time writing job at least.
| Anais chapter 1 . 5/14/2002
This was fabulous. Fun, quick, witty, smart. It felt like a *real* episode. I loved this line by Josh: "Because we can never have too many witty women." Truly, this was a wonderful read.
| nefret24 chapter 1 . 5/14/2002
Perfect as usual. Loved the president with Charlie- poor him! not allowed to sample the produce after saving the White House from a possible fire :) And J/D was lovely, not to mention Sam's unfortunate... er... incident. Another great job- you never fail to impress, amuse and entertain!
| CPP chapter 1 . 5/14/2002
Nomad, your stuff always rocks. Hilarious, and sounds just like the real thing.
| katie chapter 1 . 5/14/2002
okay, can so imagine this as a real episode! I think is this fantastic. you captured the voices perfectly.
| Perri Smith chapter 1 . 5/14/2002
Witty and quick; I could hear the voices and see the pedeconferencing. Awesome job, nomad!
| Ark chapter 1 . 5/13/2002
That was good! You really do have a wonderful ability to capture the characters perfectly. Keep up the great writing!


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DH wanted me to test early because he's going away....we got our BFP!!! So unexpected not sure how to post pic but it is a reasonably dark line
Yay @Katvee! How exciting!
Afm, the bleeding is slightly more this morning, but digi says 2-3 weeks, where last week it said 1-2 weeks, so despite the bleeding, Bubs is definitely progressing I think this must just be a form of breakthrough bleeding. Been going for 9 days now...
Congrats @Katvee x
Sent from my iPad using The Bub Hub mobile app
ETA: congrats @Katvee! How exciting it must be for you. Bet hubby is glad he asked you to POAS! 😊
Last edited by M'LadyEm; 06-07-2014 at 08:24.
FiBub76 (06-07-2014)
Biggest congrats katvee your dh will be taking the credit for that one I'm sure lol. I'll update you on the roll call, let me know you EDD :-)
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|A sleeper bus from Saigon to Nha Trang and back costs VND420,000 (Php840.00, USD21, EUR16.95).
As I've mentioned in the previous post, there's nothing much to do in Saigon so we decided to take a 10-hr bus trip to Nha Trang, another city in Vietnam. We were all worried that our body might ache for the duration of the trip but when we saw the bus, oh boy, I can't believe my eyes! There were beds!
We arrived the city of Nha Trang at 6:30am. Of course, the first thing we did was to look for breakfast. Communicating gets worse every trip. In Saigon, a few people speaks good english but in Nha Trang? Zero. Nada. Zilch. The taxi driver took us to what seems to be a popular breakfast place and they served us this:
Noodles! Now we know why the vietnamese are lean and fit! Look, I asked for coffee and they gave me iced coffee. At first, I was really upset paying for something that I don't really like. But when I took a sip, man, this coffee is so good!
Welcome to the beach! We signed up for a one day boat ride with island hopping, free lunch and snorkeling for only VND180,000! (Php360.00, USD9.00, EUR7.27)
I really wanted to go parasailing but Rieya said, "P2,000 lang yan satin." When we checked the rates, parasailing costs VND450,000 (Php900.00, USD22.00, EUR20.00) only!!! Is it a go or a no go? Stick to the theme: YOLO!
Time for lunch! We were all amazed when all the benches in the middle part of the boat transformed to lunch tables!
Now it's time for another entertainment on the way to the next island. Can you see the improvised drum set that they have? These people work all around! Since we are from different places in the both, each person will represent their country and sing a song. Some were shy (specially the Germans) but some screamed YOLO and sang their hearts out.
Our representative was my friend, Rieya. Hello, Ms Philippines! She sang Waka Waka while we danced with her.
Then, there was an open bar in the sea. Take note, you cannot have free drinks if you're not swimming so we all jumped in! I even told myself that I won't be drinking because I was sea sick but I was the first one who jumped! HAHAHAHA.
And here are our new girl friends, Jenni, a local but studies in Taiwan and the 2 girls from our favorite place, my home — Barcelona! We didn't get the other girl's name but Sylvia, the one in salakot is neighbors with Xabi Alonso!!! We promised to get in touch the next time we visit Spain.
Here's to the friends we met along the way: From Spain to Italy to Switzerland to Norway to Vietnam.
The last Island. I forgot the name but this is where the fishing and aquarium activities happen.
Going back the same night in Saigon, we took a bike going to the bus station to add to the list of 8 ways to travel in Vietnam! We completed it!
Can you read this? We were tired and decided to eat dinner while waiting for the bus. This restaurant is called Vuon Dua, located beside the bus station. Since no one speaks English the rule is to close your eyes, point and order.
We waited for what we called our "surprise dinner" since we don't know what it is. I ordered the Chao Han and this I got. We were all laughing because it's a freakin soup! I was expecting for spring rolls or chicken breasts with rice but I got this! HAHAHAHA. Here's to paying for something that you don't like — YOLO.
I really had fun in Nha Trang and I hope my sister is with me in this trip. It's pretty tiring but I'm sure she will love it! This is, by far, my favorite trip of all time. Greater than Europe. XoTrish


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July 19th - July 21st, 2017
The California School of Podiatric Medicine is proud to sponsor a three-day podiatry workshop that provides participants with an opportunity to explore the profession of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery.
Check out photos from the 2015 3D Workshop!
During the Podiatry Experience workshop, you will:
- Have an invaluable learning experience and opportunity to explore the profession of Podiatry
- Shadow faculty and students in a variety of clinical settings
- Participate in organized lectures covering the correlation between podiatric medicine and basic sciences
- Participate in a MCAT workshop
- Learn about the CSPM Admission process, Financial Aid, and Scholarships
- Hands-on clinical day learning how to cast and suture, sports medicine taping techniques, and more!
How does one qualify for the workshop?
Successful applicants will have 40 or more credit hours completed by an accredited undergraduate institution and may not have been previously enrolled in a school of podiatric medicine. Your all-college GPA will be taken in consideration, since there is limited space, expect acceptance to be competitive.
How many students are accepted to the Workshop?
Participation in the Podiatry Experience Workshop is limited to 25 participants.
Where does the Workshop take place?
The Podiatry Experience Workshop will be held on the main campus of Samuel Merritt University in Oakland, CA.
Are there scholarships available for program participants?
For out of state participants, we anticipate there will be travel scholarships available to help offset the cost of participation in the program; students who live locally will be eligible for a small monetary stipend to help cover travel expenses. Recipients will be notified of scholarships at the time of acceptance.
Will there be other out of pocket expenses I can expect as part of the program?
Yes. All participants are responsible for overnight housing costs (hotel) and meals outside the program. Most days breakfast and lunch are included as part of the program. Travel to/from campus and parking will be your responsibility.
How do I apply for the Summer Enrichment Workshop?
Completed application and all supplemental materials are to be sent directly to:
Dr. David Tran
CSPM Podiatry Experience Workshop
450 30th Street, Suite 2860
Oakland, CA 94609
Applications can also be scanned and emailed to firstname.lastname@example.com.
When is the application deadline?
May 1, 2017
When will you know if you've been accepted to the workshop?
Successful participants will be notified by May 22, 2017 by email. Although subject to change, here is a sample agenda for the workshop.
Should you have questions regarding the "CSPM Podiatry Experience: Summer Enrichment Workshop," please forward questions to:
David Tran, DPM, MS
Assistant Professor, Associate Director of Admission and Director of Graduate Placement
California School of Podiatric Medicine
E: email@example.com


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Mortgage borrowers benefiting from record low interest rates could be in for a rate shock next year. Experts warn that interest rates could start climbing from next spring, leaving borrowers on variable rates forced to dig deeper to meet monthly mortgage commitments. There are several tactics borrowers can adopt to ease the effect of future rate rises, but should you think about taking action now?
With fixed-rate loans reaching record lows, it could certainly prove a good idea to tie your mortgage down now for the next few years. "As rates have fallen to historical lows people should be taking advantage of some of the attractive fixed rates on offer," suggests mortgage adviser Andrew Montlake of the Coreco Group. "While it is nice to be on a low tracker rate, this can change quickly and people have to be sure they can afford not just a 1 per cent rise, but possibly a 2 per cent rise in rates over the next year or two."
On Thursday a five-year fixed rate aimed at people remortgaging was launched at a new low of just 3.69 per cent. The deal from ING Direct is only open to those with 60 per cent equity in their home and has an expensive fee of £1,945. But it's just the latest in a flurry of lower fixed rates that have hit the market in recent weeks. According to Moneyfacts, the average cost of fixed-rate mortgages fell to new record lows during September. The typical cost of a two-year fixed rate deal fell to 4.4 per cent, while three and five-year fixed rate deals fell to 5.04 per cent and 5.36 per cent.
Fixed rate mortgages can be attractive in that they offer you certainly of knowing how much your mortgage repayments will be for months or years in advance. But fix too high and you could easily end up paying more for your mortgage than if you'd remained on a variable rate. The problem is that we don't know how quickly and by how much rates may go up.
Is it likely that rates could leap to the levels we saw before the credit crunch, when the base rate stood at 5.5 per cent and mortgages rates of 7 per cent were not uncommon? No, thinks Drew Wotherspoon of mortgage advisers John Charcol. "The chances of rate rises has arguably receded further over the last month or so, with the general recovery weakening and the focus of the MPC turning toward printing more money. I expect the first rate rise to come towards the end of 2011, but for any increases to be very gradual over the coming years. We simply cannot see the big rises some commentators are forecasting," he says.
David Hollingworth of rival brokers London & Country Mortgages agrees that a rate increase is some way off. "But the only direction that base rate will move is up and so borrowers should be considering how they will approach the situation and how well they will cope when the time comes," he warns.
The gap between the very best variable rate at 2.5 per cent and ING's five year fix at 3.69 per cent is now slim which strengthens the argument for fixing. "Only the most bearish would suggest that rates will not rise by more than 1.19 per cent over the next three years," says Andrew Montlake. "A little extra cost now could save many a sleepless night in the future."
Melanie Bien, of independent mortgage broker Private Finance, points out that fixed rates are unlikely to get much cheaper. "If you wait until interest rates are rising before you fix, you will pay more than you would now, because the pricing of new fixed rates rises accordingly," she says. But that's not reason alone to switch from a variable to a fix, she says.
"Trying to time the market and an interest-rate rise is a mug's game; you should really opt for a mortgage that suits your particular circumstances. So if you are on a tight budget and like certainty, a fixed rate makes sense. If you can afford fluctuations in interest rates, a base-rate tracker may be cheaper at least initially. Or consider the best of both worlds – a tracker mortgage with the option to switch to a fixed rate at any time, without penalty," Bien advises.
Wotherspoon advises against fixing now. "It is entirely down to the profile of an individual borrower, but the better value is still currently had in the tracker market," he says. "They are priced lower and I do not believe there will be sharp interest rate rises that would make it worthwhile taking the more expensive fixed rates. The time to take fixed rates will come again, I just don't believe it is now."
However, his firm does offer an alternative way to protect yourself against future rate increases: an Interest Rate Protector. "It's similar to insurance," Wotherspoon explains. "You pay for it, and you may never actually get anything back from it if you do not have to claim, but it provides peace of mind. It is also a solution for those who are unable to remortgage due to restrictive lender criteria or high loan to values and are concerned about future rate rises."
However, it's not cheap. The rate changes but currently works out at around £10,000 to cap a five year mortgage at 5 per cent. That's the equivalent of around £170 a month on top of existing mortgage commitments. As such, it's only really suitable for those with large mortgages, of £500,000 or more.
Islay Robinson of mortgage brokers Enness Capital specialises in higher-value mortgages. He says there has been a huge increase in the popularity of interest rate caps, which he arranges through bank treasury departments. "They can be a good alternative to a fixed rate and, depending on your loan amount, can work out cheaper than remortgaging," he says. "As they run independently from the mortgage they can even be used by those in negative equity or people with buy-to-lets which are difficult to remortgage."
For the average borrower there is instead a cheaper insurance policy you can take out. Chris Taylor of MarketGuard says his RateGuard cover could be particularly useful to people who can't remortgage. "Many mortgage holders would be unable to find a suitable fixed deal and would remain at the mercy of the financial markets," he says. "Cover can be arranged from as little as £30 per month for 24 months cover based on a typical repayment mortgage of £100,000." So if you're on a 3.5 per cent variable rate, for instance, you could get cover for the mortgage rate reaching 4.5 per cent with the insurance paying out when that happens. It would mean that even if rates did climb higher, mortgage repayments would remain affordable while the cover was still in force.
But rather than paying out for insurance you could instead overpay your mortgage. If rates rise then you would already be used to paying extra. "For many people on very cheap variable rates who don't want to move onto a more expensive fix at this stage, using the money you are saving to overpay on the mortgage and then switching to a fix when rates start to rise, can be a better strategy," says Melanie Bien.
If you can afford to overpay, you shouldn't get too carried away, advises David Hollingworth. "It's important to check that there will not be any early repayment charges by overpaying and it's important not to plough all savings into the mortgage and retain an amount of easily accessible cash."
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'Everybody has to hurt'
One after another, the members of the House State Affairs Committee voted "Aye," all 18 of them, on Rep. Darrell Bolz' proposal to reject legislative pay raises this year. Bolz' proposal also rejects all the changes in mileage and per diem expenses that a citizen committee had recommended this year. "What we are doing is rejecting all of these," he told the panel this morning. The committee voted not only to introduce the measure, but to send it to 2nd Reading Calendar of the full House, which means it goes directly to the floor without a further hearing on the House side. It'll save the state about $180,000 by foregoing raises or any other compensation boosts for lawmakers. "With the economic times, how can we take and ask state employees to take a hit with salary, and yet we've got ourselves a salary increase?" Bolz asked. "We're in tough times. My belief is when you get in difficult times like this, you can't ask some people to take all the hurt. Everybody has to hurt to get through the situation."
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Short Stories 02
Paperback, 265 Pages
Price: $14.24
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Eckie, aka Bondagfan has been writing stories for many years. This book, the second in a series celebrates some of his most successful stories including: A Job For Life Visiting The Fair Self Bondage - Not Always Ends How You Expect A Human Fucking Machine The Auction Rolling The Dices
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Product Details
- 9781291265781
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- Published
- May 19, 2014
- Language
- English
- Pages
- 265
- Binding
- Perfect-bound Paperback
- Interior Ink
- Black & white
- Weight
- 1 lbs.
- Dimensions (inches)
- 5.83 wide x 8.26 tall
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On Sunday, Richard Kinder stunned the world by announcing that Kinder Morgan Inc. (NYSE:KMI) would acquire Kinder Morgan Energy Partners (NYSE:KMP), Kinder Morgan Management (NYSE:KMR), and El Paso Pipeline Partners (NYSE:EPB), consolidating his companies into one ticker symbol with a $140 billion enterprise value (press release available here). This structure of this deal surprised me, as typically the MLP acquires its general partner, as in the case of Enterprise Products (NYSE:EPD). In this case, the opposite happened, with KMI acquiring its MLPs. As a consequence, investors don't have to deal with K-1s, but also lose this pass-through tax status of MLPs. On the whole, this deal addresses the core problems associated with KMI and KMP, and makes the stock a more attractive investment.
First, let's address the core financial parameters of the deal. KMP holders will receive 2.1931 shares of KMI and $10.77 in cash, which translates to an 11.4% premium. KMR holders will receive 2.4849 shares of KMI for a premium of 16%. As a reminder, KMR is merely an LLC that holds KMP units and reinvests distributions. EPB holders will receive .9451 shares of KMI and $4.65 in cash for a 15% premium. Thanks to this deal, KMI expects to increase its 2015 payout to $2.00 from $1.72. It also aims to grow its dividend by 10% annually through 2020.
Now while KMP is being sold at a premium, it should be noted that investors will see less cash flow up-front. In 2015, KMP was on track to pay out at least $5.75. With the $2 anticipated dividends, KMP holders will now receive about $4.39 per KMP unit from their new KMI holding. Even if they were to automatically reinvest their $10.77 cash payment, their dividends will be about 14% lower. Functionally, with the new tax status, the payout will be a bit lower. At first glance, this might upset some KMP holders, especially those in retirement who rely on the distributions. That's an understandable but short-sighted reaction.
In past articles, I have explained how incentive distribution rights hurt KMP. Under the previous set-up, KMP had to pay 50% of incremental cash flow to KMI, even though KMI did not put up any of the capital to fund projects. This made it extremely difficult to find accretive growth projects. In a sense, a project with a rate of return of 16% would only return 8% to KMP holders, barely enough to cover the cost of capital. In its presentation explaining the deal, KMI addresses the phenomenon (presentation available here). A $1 billion project will now lead to incremental cash flow of $65 million, versus only $18 million.
KMP investors can now feel far more optimistic about the firm's $15 billion backlog. Under the MLP structure, it would be difficult for this backlog to add much value, whereas accretion is much easily achieved now. As a side note, this comparison shows how much value the IDRs sucked out of KMP, which was the reason I turned negative on the stock. Investors who own other MLPS with external general partners like Energy Transfer Partners (NYSE:ETP) should keep note of this. There is a very strong argument that general partners get too much of the incremental cash flow, and these mergers help to address the problem.
Because KMP holders are freed from the IDRs, the future dividend growth rate will be much faster. Over time, the annual dividends under the structure will exceed those under the old regime. In all likelihood, the time when this deal becomes accretive for KMP from a cash flow perspective will be 2019. If we assume reinvestment of the cash payment, accretion should occur by the end of 2017. So for longer-term investors, this transaction is a major win for KMP. The thrust of the bear case on KMP, the IDRs, is gone, and within three years, investors will be getting more cash. Certainly, some will nitpick and argue the share exchange should have been higher to make accretion occur sooner, but the IDRs paid KMI at the expense of KMP, meaning KMP needed a deal more. The accretion schedule is certainly fair.
For KMI, the biggest risk, the structural subordination of its cash flows, is eliminated. It only receives IDRS after KMP pays the interest on its debt. As a consequence, KMI's cash flows are subordinated to other claims on KMP's cash flow. When times are good, the system works well for KMI, but the firm is especially vulnerable to a downturn, especially given the $9 billion in debt it carried (all financial and operating data available here). Now that all operations are fully housed under one roof, the issue of the structural subordination is eliminated, meaning that KMI investors are getting more stable cash flows. With safer cash flows and a 10% dividend growth rate, this is a winner for KMI.
On EPB, I would also classify this deal as a winner, if only because I believe it has a weak asset base and would have struggled to grow its distribution for at least two years (my past article on EPB here). Investors in this MLP should be glad to get bought out at any premium, and now have a piece of the superior pipelines in KMP's portfolio.
Finally, it should be noted that these cash payments will amount to roughly $4 billion, bringing consolidated debt past $40 billion. KMI will be funding this with debt, which will move its leverage to about 5.6x 2015 EBITDA. This is an elevated leverage ratio, but KMI says it expects to have an investment-grade rating. This is crucial because KMP relies on long-term contracts, and many producers are hesitant to sign such contracts with non-investment grade companies, as the contracts could be altered or cancelled in bankruptcy court. It seems the ratings agencies will give KMI at least a year of breathing room to bring leverage back towards 5x. So long as this deal does not push the combined entity into junk, it is a clear positive for investors in all the stocks.
The only major question remaining is what type of dividend policy KMI will pursue. KMP typically paid out virtually all of its distributable cash flow, forcing it to raise debt and equity to fund the entire growth budget. Now as a corporation, KMI can choose to retain more cash to limit future equity and debt, or it may target a very high payout ratio. I expect more color on this issue on the conference call Monday morning.
At the end of the day, this deal is clear win-win for KMI and KMP. It also makes me look like an idiot for selling KMP several weeks ago because I did not believe a merger was imminent. This deal successfully addresses the key problems at each entity, while offering everyone a fair price. I expect KMI shares to shoot past $40 and would recommend buying at $40 or lower, where investors will get a solid 5% yield.
Disclosure: The author has no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours. The author wrote this article themselves, and it expresses their own opinions. The author is not receiving compensation for it (other than from Seeking Alpha). The author has no business relationship with any company whose stock is mentioned in this article.


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AIIMS Rishikesh Senior Resident Interview Call Letter: We are notifying to the applicants that All India Institute Of Medical Sciences Rishikesh will be organized an interview in the September month. All of the registered candidates must take part in the interview. By the interview process, the department will select the candidates among all of the applied candidates. Most of the contestants are looking for AIIMS Rishikesh Sr Resident Exam 2016 Interview Call Letter, to take entry in the interview room. We are communicating to the applicants that in this time they can get Interview Letter Of AIIMS Senior Resident Exam, from the main site. Additionally, applicants can follow the direct link for getting AIIMS Rishikesh Senior Resident Interview Call Letter 2016
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All India Institute Of Medical Sciences Rishikesh is the public department that came into existence in the year of 2012. It is a most famous medical college which works in the Rishikesh, Uttarakhand, India. As per the historical information, we come to know that there are 550 candidates are giving their services.
Few time ago, All India Institute Of Medical Sciences Rishikesh had passed a recruitment notification for filling the 72 posts of Senior Resident under a recruitment notification. After hearing the same news, all of the applicants have registered for getting the job. The works of the application collection have been over, so it is going to conduct an interview.
|Useful Information of AIIMS Rishikesh Senior Resident Exam
|Name of the Institute
|All India Institute Of Medical Sciences Rishikesh
|Total Posts
|72 Posts
|Post's Name
|Senior Resident
|Interview Date
|21st September 2016
|Official Site
AIIMS Rishikesh Senior Resident Interview Schedule 2016: Some days has left in the interview so all applicants should prepare the interview. Must follow the interview topics. We recommended to the applicants that they should talk in a polite manner. Because in the case of the interview, success will depend on your communication skills. Don't forget to carry interview call letter with you because you can not take entry without AIIMS Rishikesh Sr Resident Call Letter. You can know the interview place from the interview call letter. Just follow the steps to know the method to download interview hall ticket
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- Then submit the information
- In little bit time, interview call letter will disclose in front of you
- Download it to on your computer
- Must carry a hard copy of it at the time of interview.
|Quick Links
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|AIIMS Rishikesh Senior Resident Interview Call Letter 2016
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AIIMS Rishikesh Sr Resident Interview Call Letter 2016: For your query write a note in the comment box. In a short time, we will try to solve your problem. If you want to read the Recruitment Notification 2016 then click the link of AIIMS Rishikesh Sr Resident Recruitment 2016


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Classical elements are met with modern design to create the Marlee rocking chair. Wooden runnersmake the Marlee sway back and forth. Rolled, welted arm posts enclose a bordered, welted seat cushion. Thetight, camel back gives the appearance of crisp and clean styling. The perfect fit for a sun room or rocking the little one to sleep in the nursery. Choose from a variety of upholstery options to customize the look of this rocker to match the style of your home.
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Jensen Radio In A Saab 95 Yes It Can Be Done
Crutchfield Customer Review (What's this?)
Fits perfectly. I own a Saab 95.nice color match to the rest of the dash
Pros: Good fit and color easy mod to fit a Saab.
Cons: No mounting screws. And not the fault of the product, I needed to make shims so the unit would not go too far into the dash. Saab is a strange car but the mod was easy. Just needed some 1/4" plastic strips. So the unit would fit flush. With out the shims the radio would not mount flush but be set in 1/4" again this is not the fault of the kit.


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Buying Armor Paladin armor set
Discussion in 'UO Trader's Hall' started by I Love Girls, Jul 17, 2015.


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Is S.L.I. Systems incorrect or missing key business information? Update your Hotfrog listing today.
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Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary Drives and Gratifications?
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Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary Drives and Gratifications?
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Europan Ocean
Sr. Member
Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary Drives and Gratifications?
27/06/2013 14:42:47 »
It looks to me like something queer is happening in politics that has much potential to change things. This could mean less rights and and extension of freedoms over rights as if to a high priority upon gratification. And possibly the replacing of rights and justice with evolutionary drives, and the need to be gratified.
Evolutionary drives and gratification go together. Eat, sleep, excrete, and physical pleasures, sex, sport and holidays. It seems the priority upon pleasures is increasing dramatically.
I think in the foreseeable future, parents will not have the right to discipline their children, and the children will perhaps be called fruits for picking. Predators rights. But predation is not right or just, but a possible freedom, that will be savoured, in place of respect, as above right, but gratification, an anti-right.
It may also be, that if someone wants one for sex, a firm no, will be prosecuted, and one will be required to give a no, towards a possible second try, or a maybe.
Such an emphasis will be placed on gratification, that gratification dynamics will be taught in schools instead of morality. And kids will be taught to accept the awkward and foul as normal. Literally hand around poops and used condoms replicas. Porn party preps...
A nightmare for parents, who in so are working to give their best up to others, losing their attachments and sweetness... just so? Merely for? Or for the extremely valuable pinnacle of life, gratification. Not for oneself, but so one's daughter or son can be snapped up at 15 or 16... for another homosexual boy, girl or couple. Or a heterosexual.
One can argue justice is ok, but evolutionary drives are equal to or better than justification, or are anti-justified.
Later, in the far future killing might be understood as "evolutionary drive".
In English we have a few problems, love and lust and passion mean the same thing, and yet in origin and actual practice contradict.
What do the scientists say?
Last Edit: 04/07/2013 09:36:19 by Europan Ocean
Hero Member
Re: Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary drives and Gratifications?
Reply #1 on:
30/06/2013 03:46:06 »
Turtles have been around for 400 million years, and, if they don't get religion, will probably be around for another 400 million. Here's a future turtle joke, maybe the near future.
Ted - Hey Vern, remember when humans walked the earth?
Vern - Nah, I never came out of my shell that day.
Ted and Vern - Hah hah hah hee hee hoo haw haw haw ha ha ho ho ho.
Europan Ocean
Sr. Member
Re: Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary drives and Gratifications?
Reply #2 on:
30/06/2013 12:56:35 »
Why did I cause you to write of religion?
Hero Member
Re: Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary drives and Gratifications?
Reply #3 on:
30/06/2013 18:12:13 »
Anything that isn't science is religion.
Europan Ocean
Sr. Member
Re: Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary drives and Gratifications?
Reply #4 on:
01/07/2013 10:49:28 »
Well, what about Native American wisdom? That amazing love of nature and simple understanding?
The Natives of North America have such a way about them. If we all lived like them, we'd have maybe another 2500 years on Earth. Only problem possibly being the increasing heat of the sun.
As a boy scientists told us the ice age is coming, add that to solar warming and it looks great.
Wars between Indians were over such things as water shortages and the people lived off the land like the beasts themselves and were operating as part of the ecosystem, in what has been a billion year old affair, between animal and plant, predator and prey. And no epidemics!
They worshiped the the land, the sun, the solar eclipse and their ancestors, and the Creator Spirit. A simple noble religion and love of nature, no civilization, after all the Central American Indians were cannibals.
Hunter's paradise, with a population of six to seven million.
Following this came western civilization, some conversions and they were welcome, but also slavery and genocides of whole tribes.
Then a civil war fought over politics and a hint of religion considering it was to abolish slavery. Then a big secularization and industrial scale WW1. Then the Flu epidemic. Then WW2 and a third secular versus ultra secular war was possible, WW3, nuclear war. And lastly we live relieved of the latter but a midst global warming and as result of grand civilization, and depleted resources, so Hawking announced we have at most 1000 years more on this planet and need look for a new one to terraform.
That is how I reply to the turtle story.
Last Edit: 01/07/2013 11:28:01 by Europan Ocean
Hero Member
Re: Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary drives and Gratifications?
Reply #5 on:
02/07/2013 10:39:22 »
The turtles say - Welcome.
Europan Ocean
Sr. Member
Re: Rights, Freedoms, Evolutionary Drives and Gratifications?
Reply #6 on:
09/07/2013 05:59:54 »
Religion is as much a problem as civilization, and I'd like to exclude religion from a discussion on politics.
So the matters here are, rights, freedoms, evolutionary drives, gratifications and the future for families and individuals and about wholeness.
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