text:
During my first days of work in Germany, I made sure to be super friendly to all of my coworkers. Whenever anyone passed me in the hallway, I would grin maniacally, wave, and yelp, "Hi! How's your day going?" The responses ranged from bemused looks to a total lack of reply. Confused but not discouraged, I continued trying to work my charms on my new friends.
One morning, I passed Roger, the department's statistician. I laser-beamed him with my eyes and yelled out my usual "How are you?!" He paused for a moment, staring at me bewilderedly and scratching his fluffy, mad-professor hairdo.
"Do you really want to know?" he asked, one eyebrow raised.
"Uh, yes," I stammered, unsure of what to make of this.
Twenty minutes later, he was still going strong on a breathless diatribe about how the students' inferior grasp of basic stats and unbearably messy datasets were contributing to his ever-increasing workload.
Eventually sensing my discomfort, Roger paused and gave me a blank look. "Well you asked," he muttered, rolling his eyes before continuing down the hall to his office.
Germans don't like small talk, and they don't like bullshit. Idle comments and feel-good messages have no place here. German flirting is particularly brutal; "Your big nose looks good on your face" is about the best compliment you can expect to get in Germany.
Especially in the former East, Freikörperkultur, or free body culture, is an important part of German identity. Decades of oppression led to a particular appreciation for the experience of freedom and nudity without a direct relationship to sexuality.
This can sometimes be difficult for Americans to buy, particularly when your coworkers casually invite you to the office's nude sauna or suggest a naked swim in a nearby lake. Adjusting to this culture without getting weird took some grit, finesse, and more than a few awkward encounters.
The pervasive fear of litigation that infuses most public activities in the United States is virtually nonexistent in Germany. Germans take a much more casual, reasonable approach to public safety. On a hike in Sächsische Schweiz, a beautiful, mountainous region of Saxony, I once commented on the lack of guardrails and warning signs surrounding the steepest cliffs. "Only an idiot would fail to realize that a steep cliff is dangerous," my German co-worker stated matter-of-factly.
A few months later, after a particularly brutal snowstorm, I remember seeing an older gentleman faceplant on the ice while waiting for the tram. He stood up, casually wiped the trickle of blood from his forehead, and resumed his position on the platform without so much as grimacing.
I love this attitude.
Every year, a local artist would put on a crazy party called "Bimbotown" in one of the warehouses in the Spinnereistrasse neighborhood of Leipzig. The party was crawling with machines that this artist made — giant metallic worms slithering across the ceiling, bar stools that would eject their occupants at the push of a button from across the warehouse, couches that caved in and dumped you into a secret room, beds that could be driven around the party and through the walls. It was an incredible event that would have never been allowed to happen in the US because of all the safety violations — someone could hit their head, fall off a bed, get whacked in the eye. And it was one of the best parties I've ever been to.
Unlike Americans, Germans are often more concerned with protecting others than they are with shielding themselves from the mistakes of other people.
When I was filling out rental paperwork for my first apartment in Germany, one of the secretaries in at my office asked me if I'd purchased insurance yet.
"Oh no," I said, "I don't really own anything worth insuring, to be honest."
"It's not for you," she replied, puzzled. "It's to protect other people, in case you damage their property in some way."
Moving to Germany meant an inexorable slowing of the pace of my life. Particularly in Saxony, there are strict rules about when stores can remain open. Most businesses are closed in the evenings and all day on Sunday. Additionally, Germans benefit from frequent holidays and typically at least a month of paid vacation.
This gave me some anxiety at first, particularly when I forgot to leave work early enough to get groceries or didn't have time to go to the bank. Over time, however, I learned to both plan my days and to enjoy the break from chores rather than obsessing over lost time. After a few months, I was occasionally leaving work at 3pm to go watch the football game with friends instead of trying to cram in a few more hours of work. I still got as much done as usual, but I felt much happier and less burned out.
In Boston, jaywalking is a way of life. The streets are so crazy and the lights so uncoordinated that you'll die of old age waiting for the crosswalk. When I moved to Germany, I took this attitude with me but quickly found that it was not a universally acceptable behavior. Even if it's late in the evening and no cars are in sight, crossing the street without the right of way will get you some heat from native Germans, with "Think of the children!" being the top rebuke hurled your way.
Same deal with "forgetting" to pay your tram fare — if you get caught, the icy stares heaped upon you by an entire car full of people will be enough to freeze your blood. The German system relies on people contributing to the common good even when no one is watching, and so freeloaders and rule-breakers are heavily sanctioned in German culture.
Credit cards are also virtually nonexistent in Germany. This presented a problem for me when my American bank account decided to shut down after my first "suspicious" attempt to withdraw money in Leipzig, but once I got that squared away, being required to plan my expenditures and live on a cash-only system helped me keep my finances under control.
A few months into my time in Leipzig, I started really feeling like I had the hang of things. I knew my way around, I was pretty well set-up at work and home, and most importantly, I felt like I had the German attitude figured out.
One morning, I was biking to a conference and felt like it was unusually difficult to keep the bike moving. "Jesus, I'm out of shape," I thought, heaving my shaking legs around the wheels as I tottered slowly down the street.
While I was waiting at a red light, a man on the sidewalk flagged me down. "Ich spreche kein Deutsch," I hissed, tired and irritated.
"Your tire is flat," he said in perfect, clipped English, gesturing at my pitiful heap of a bike.
"I know that," I lied, aggravated by this typical German statement-of-the-obvious. I tensed my foot on the pedal, ready to hurl myself forward as soon as the light turned.
The man paused and looked at me for a moment, unsure of whether to continue. "It's just that, I have a pump," he finally stammered, waving his hand almost apologetically at his backpack. "I could pump your tire for you."
This article was originally published on February 11, 2015. Featured photo: Alexander Rentsch
I loved your article and feel it's one of the best I've seen on Matador. I have read a few of these types of articles and this is the first that seemed very loving of both cultures and a resl development of self. Gut gemacht!
I got the exact same feeling described in this article when I was in Germany. Maybe as a German you've taken things for granted, but especially on the safety things, it's not that you don't care about safety, but you're just not being nanny-ish about it. For instance you can buy alcohol almost from anywhere, even from McDonnalds or breakfast joints. Even cigarettes, you can plainly see tobacco shop everywhere in plain sight. In many countries they must be hidden. In Germany even though drinking and smoking are dangerous for your health, they leave it to your own judgement as an adult. Then in train stations I didn't see a single sign reminding how dangerous trains are. In Australia the whole walls and TV's are practically covered with signs and cartoons constantly reminding you to be careful around trains. Even when you're already home and switch on the telly, here they are again with the warnings about trains, and also traffics. Speaking of traffic, the speed limit is also all about trusting your own judgement how fast you feel safe to drive, especially in the highway, instead of forcing you to stick under 100/80 kph as is common in Australia. In general I feel like I'm treated more like an adults
I lived in Germany for four years, from 2005-2009. At that time, they still had cigarette machines on street corners. And liquor really is sold everywhere.
God I miss it!
haha I love it, I've been living in Leipzig for 7 months and I can definitely relate.
again you'll hear from a German that most things mentioned above are bullshit. Nothing that really describes our country/culture accept maybe for the compliance to rules f.e.: traffic lights. I also need to contradict you that we wouldnt care about our safety. Our safety is a very important factor. The so called German Angst is famous all over the world thats why its almost impossible to host such a crazy party as its described. probably it was an illegal one. Nudism aka FKK existed already before the wall fell down so even that point is bullshit. In Europe Germany is on the lead when it comes to unpaid working hours.
Theres a lot of FKK here in Leipzig. So: Bullshit magnumson.
Yup and there is nothing wrong with fkk bading after work in some kiesgrube (gravel pit filled with watter) …:)
I really doubt you're German when you suggest "German Angst" is about safety guidelines.
Further the nude culture is of course no eastern German invention but the ideological suppression plays a big role in its popularity there (however when I lived in Spain for half a year I noticed Spanish people do it more extensively).
The 'How are you?' Question without wanting to hear an answer is something I experienced a LOT when I lived in the USA, for us Germans it's just something inefficient (why ask for sth you don't want to know) but that's the fun part of cultural differences – I love it.
So I really liked the article and, as a German, can confirm it's an authentic one!
This guy is not speaking for a majority, I guarantee it! From his writing, he is one of the right-wing guys from eastern Germany, steadily complaining about everything and not being seponsible for anything, especially the own situation. You can see it in the last sentence: He is complaining about unpaid working hours of Germans. That's a typical right-wing position to tell "We are worth more than others, we work more and blah." Nothing of this is true. I doubt that this guy has a job, but nevermind. And I love the article, most things are so true, except the FKK thing, but I am from western Germany and that was never common here. Much appreciate and many like I do!
Did you read the part about assumptions?
This Partys exist in Leibzig and they are not illegal. But fun.
well that party existed for many years. Legally. check out bimbo town. Not sure if it is typical German, because there is nothing that can replace it, now that it stopped after more than 10 years.
I see what you mean but I spent my entire life naked till I was 13. Of course I wore clothes in town but at pool I was naked. I come from middle Germany and was in a booster till I was 13. Even when I go to visit my family is irritated when I smile and say hallo to people that pass by. American pace is faster and if I could bring an American fridge and have air conditioning I would be there in a heart bump.
Actually you are very wrong. She is mostly spot on, except for that thing with the lights and the flirting maybe.
@magnumson I got the exact same feeling described in this article when I was in Germany. Maybe as a German you've taken things for granted, but especially on the safety things, it's not that you don't care about safety, but you're just not being nanny-ish about it. For instance you can buy alcohol almost from anywhere, even from McDonnalds or breakfast joints. Even cigarettes, you can plainly see tobacco shop everywhere in plain sight. In many countries they must be hidden. In Germany even though drinking and smoking are dangerous for your health, they leave it to your own judgement as an adult. Then in train stations I didn't see a single sign reminding how dangerous trains are. In Australia the whole walls and TV's are practically covered with signs and cartoons constantly reminding you to be careful around trains. Even when you're already home and switch on the telly, here they are again with the warnings about trains, and also traffics. Speaking of traffic, the speed limit is also all about trusting your own judgement how fast you feel safe to drive, especially in the highway, instead of forcing you to stick under 100/80 kph as is common in Australia. In general I feel like I'm treated more like an adults
thank you so much for this article. I am from Saxony and I can SO relate to what you described. I lived in Boston and I still have problems with those red lights every time I return from trips to the States. And my partner was so confused by all the "Hey, how are you"s from Americans, that he pretended to not understand the language at all. Fun times.
Contrary to magnumson I also think you described the differences safety-wise very well. If you experienced both cultures, you will know that the U.S. system sees safety concerns everywhere. Peanut bags need a warning like "contains peanuts"? Überraschungseier are banned from the U.S. due to safety concerns? COME ON. The German Angst has nothing to do with that. We have faith in our common sense. If you want to do a stupid party, do it….so no, mr @magnumson, none of these things mentioned above are bullshit! They are very true and very funny.
Yup i am from Saxonias as well and i so can relaxte to them.
Thank you for a great article. I think you hit the nail on the head. As a German who has been living in the US, UK and Australia for half my life, I can also relate to these differences. I was struggling to adapt the other way round with exactly those points.
My dad was always puzzled when I asked him 'how are you
I feel the different attitude to health and safety can partly be explained by different legal traditions – common vs. civil law. I never heard about a court case in Germany where, just to give an extreme example, a restaurant was sued because the drink was too hot and the customer got burned. I don't think that would be possible in German law, but I may be wrong.
I lived in Dresden (Radebeul, actually) for a couple of years and you describe it perfectly. That said, much of what you describe applies more to the former East Germans than to their Western counterparts.
To 2. yeah we are out spoke, but the examples sucks. Compliments like in every other country depend on the giver.
To 3. In 18 years of working in different companies i never saw a co worker naked (Thank God). It sounds like we all run around naked touching each other. ….Come on. ….lol. YES i ley my children make the decision what age they want to cover up at the pool…..and they all did around the same age 3ish (the time they entered Kindergarten). Nothing wrong with that. I haf my babies naked in my back yard in the US as well…..somebody should had dared to say something. That would had meant the person who said something made the effored to look OVER our privacy fence…..I would had called that person a perv straight in the face (back to 2. Lol).
The rest. ….nicely said and dead on!
Us germans come around as rud lots of times, but give us some time, scratch on the surface and if you get under that surface you will find warmhearted ppl, honesty and faithfulness. You befriend a german, you might have a good friend for life, because if we say "I call you!" Or "How are you?" We actualy mean it!
I loved my time in your country. I wish I had found a job there as a singer. (Bad economy when I was there.) It's beautiful there and the train system is wonderful. There is high quality music even in the smallest towns. I found the frankness refreshing and often helpful. Sometimes it's nice to know where you really stand, especially in professional matters.
I agree with you. I visited my German friends for two weeks last summer. I absolutely loved your beautiful culture! Some of these examples she gave are a little exaggerated, but that may be due to the shock of moving to a new country. This was an enjoyable article, some of it made me laugh remembering my time in the country. Don't worry, a lot of Americans know how warmhearted you are. Especially if they were ever stationed in Germany in the Army, like my Dad was. 40 years later and we're still keeping in touch with our German friends!
I know people here in Germany who will let their children run around naked at the pool but won't dare put a picture of their child on their facebook account because they are afraid perverts will get a hold of the pics. As if pervs aren't at the pool.
I'm of the opinion that our children should wear a bathing suit. But then again I'm American.
FB pictures can be stolen and used for kiddie porn. Running around naked at the pool, as long as parents are vigilant should be fine.
Pictures from the internet cannot be "stolen". If you save a picture from the internet and reuse it, you are not "stealing" anything.
yes, you are. because you don't own the rights to the picture. Ever heard of copy infringement?!
It is not that you're American, it is just two sides of the same pproach towards this situation. Germans in specific and Europeans in general are more of the opinion that the perverts are a problem that can be contained by the whole society not being overly sensitive. The other side claims the right protection is by being overly protective.
Actually I agree, for the most part. Germans for the most part not everybody are not quick to jump on the friendship bandwagon, but when they do, you have a friend for life. The younger generation are much more friendlier than the older out the gate. Much of the time if you don't speak German, its the hold up as the Germans while knowing English are shy about speaking it.
My experience traveling to most European countries is that if you start off expecting people to speak English, you're probably going to ruffle feathers. But if you start off at least making an attempt at the language of the country you are in, the hearer will most likely switch to English just to avoid the horror of hearing his native language butchered so badly. I found this particularly true in France, LOL.
Ha, ha, this is a great post. I grew up behind the wall, but live in the Western part for more than 20 years meanwhile. I think we shouldn't take each and every word so serious. But in general, Vanessa described the situation as it is. I've been many times in the US and know many Americans and their "typical" habits. And yes, there are some differences. Well done, Vanessa, well done. 🙂
I am laughing my ass (BEEP?) off…I am German, and you are should be a professor of anthropology :-).
Bimbotown! Is this still going on? Our kids were s used to FKK that when we came home from Leipzig and went to the beach the first time, we forgot to remind the kids not to strip down and we had to catch them as they started shucking their clothes and running for the water. This may be a bit osi vs, wesi, but I found it spot on after living in Leipzig for almost 7 years.
What a great article.
I have personal experience with number 7.
The other thing I learned about my short stay in Germany was catching a train.
If you train is do to arrive at 7:05 and you are there at 7:00 or 7:10 chances are that is not your train. 7:05 means 7:05.
Nice article, but the Bimbotown Party – definitely illegal. Also Jay-walking totally depends on where you are located rural vs big city. Big city it is more common in rural towns where you might personally know the police man, not so much.
So what?! Illegal parties are the best…even though I hardly doubt this one was.
Didn't say they weren't cool ^^
Just as someone who organized a DIY Fair i do know the pain of organizing anything involving burning/moving things in germany
This is fantastic and as a former Californian now living in Berlin, I can totally relate. Like anything, these are generalizations, but they are such for good reason. Even when it is difficult, these are the things I love about Germany and why I have stayed for more than five years, with no plans to leave. German matter-of-fact frankness and directness can be tough at first, but I appreciate that people will more often than not be completely honest with you. It's a breath of fresh air after the rampant falseness in the golden state. Germans just make sense to me. Oh, and all that vacation time… I wouldn't trade that for the world!
I miss Berlin!
very nice to read, your humor, the sensitive at the same time the directness. I felt somehow caught, as a German 😉
The only thing I would disagree: We would never say: "Your big nose looks good on your face" 😉
Thank you much for this nice story.
And THX to my friend, Tod, who forwarded this URL to me.
BTW: yes, Leipzig is a very nice city. A good place to be.
Welcome to Germany! But… please stop waiting for the green Ampelmännchen as a pedestrian. 😉
Uh huh, I had the same lessons living in Germany in the 90s. Sounds about right.
To 8.
Uhm…we have credit cards…and we use them. It's just that not everyone gets one and you are being watched closely and when you can't pay the credit card debt, your limits will be down to 0 very fast.
And we love our bank-cards…so I wouldn't say we have a cash-only system but we still like to have our money in hand…just for the feels, you know 😉
great atricle. made me laugh a loT 🙂
As an American who speaks German fluently and lived/worked in Germany for many years, I'm very disappointed that someone who (by her own admission) doesn't even speak German feels qualifies to comment on the differences between Germany and the US (and always in favor of the Germans). I have a great deal of respect for Germans (else I would not have spent many years learning their language), but these kinds of superficial one-sided articles just perpetuate inaccurate and unhelpful stereotypes. Talking about FKK (nude) beaches like it's a common part of German life is ludicrous, and I've spent many weeks in Germany (including this week) paying for EVERYTHING with credit cards — not common back in the 1980s, but accepted almost everywhere now, especially in cities.
Very few Germans use their credit cards in everyday life. Many supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl don't accept them. I know many Germans who don't even own a credit card, and when they do, they pay every month's bill completely.
Agree. I don't know any if my German friends who use credit cards. Credit cards by law have to be paid in full at the end of every month by law. Unlike in the UK and US where a minimum payment will suffice. Germans save probably from a fear of debt. The word for debt – Schulden, is almost the same as guilt – Schuld.
It may explain why Germany has the lowest property ownership in Europe.
Well – thats not true. At least not entirely. We just have another card called "maestro card" which we use to get money on the money dispenser. But with this card we are able to pay almost everywhere and therefore we just don't need to use a credit card that often. The maestro card comes with your bank account automatically. You can say its included and a service of the banks.
this is called a debit card.
Yeah that's not some explicitly special German activity. I use one every day. Keeping cash on hand for literally every expense is a hassle
Maestro is the European platform for debit crds, so that people can easily withdraw money from an ATM while being abroad.
To Americans, paying with that kind of bank card is the same as paying with cash (some places won't even take paper money) because it removes cash from your bank balance. The credit cards and charge cards we talk about are debt spending accounts.
As Americans, we know this. It's very common for us. We have debit cards, credit cards and charge cards. I had no problem using any of them when I was in Germany.
"Some places won't even take paper money" This, if true, is by US law, illegal, and should be reported to the Fed. No business can refuse cash payments. Period.
"This note is legal tender for all debt, public and private." Says so, right on the money.
It doesn't actually mean that, though, unfortunately. A corporation can still require payment in any form they wish.
It simply means that the tender is legal, and that the government must accept it.
If a company wants you to pay with only pennies, they can do that. Or only with a credit card.
Thats not true in most countries.
This is 100% not true. Not even a little bit true. Businesses can and have stopped accepting cash payments. While dollars are legal tender for *debts*, most transactions do not kincur a debt. Even the ones that do can specify terms of repayment. It is only if the debt is in dollars that cash has to be accepted.
Mail order and online casdh sales? Don't think so.
You're splitting hairs. Of course you don't use cash for these situations. If you were to send cash for a mail order purchase, you'd be a fool.
My apartment complex, and the one I lived in previously, do and did not take cash. The problem is, when an owner is trusting an employee to handle several hundred dollar rent payments, the risk of cash being pocketed by an unscrupulous employee is too high for some owners, and they require checks or online payments.
germany is not a province in the US, so US law is not applicable. Period.
well…its a vassal nation. but I dont wanna get into that topic.
I could never figure out why someone would use a debit card. Why use YOUR money when you can in essence, secure a short term loan of THEIR money and pay it off at the end of the month. Of course, this made a lot more sense when interest rates actually earned you something.
I've also never seen a cash-back debit card, although I'm sure they exist somewhere just to make a liar out of me! 🙂 I get 1% back on my credit card, which I pay off every month. No annual fee means THEY are paying ME to use a payment method that is much more convenient and less easily diverted than cash – stolen cash is irrecoverable, but the one time I had a credit card stolen? The company Fed-Exed me a new one and I had it in my hands the next day, literally under 24 hours later, at no cost to me. I just had to fill out a form online on which I checked which charges were correct and which were not, which took all of about five minutes. Also, debit cards can be a nightmare if there's an error. I used a debit card at a restaurant (I didn't know they didn't take my credit card) a couple of years ago and somehow $500 was taken out of my account instead of $50 (the slip I signed was correct), wiping out a significant portion of my account balance, and the resulting cascade of clusterflop took weeks to clear up.
They used to exist (chase offered debit rewards). The govt quickly shut it down, as it was unfairly rewarding people for just… spending their own money.
Yet another reason why Big Brother needs to be removed from where he doesn't belong. If it is YOUR money then shouldn't it be YOUR decision how you spend…..where does fair / unfair come in to play at all ??
So, according to you. Your credit cardholder is working For Free. You got a good deal that works 4U Cause you pay right away which is not What the other 99 people do and the bank do not Expect you to do..It is a business. They Expect you to One day ForX reason you miss a payment or start breaking your Good habit. One day they will get you.
As a European, you wouldn't even believe how American this credit card system is to me. Here you used to often get charged if you use your credit card. Debit card is all by pin code, no signing for amounts etc.
Credit card transactions are expensive for shops in both eu and us. The difference is that in the us, shops just compensate for this by increasing prices, since people have so many incentives by cc companies to use their credit cards. In the long run you are paying for use of credit cards. There is no such thing as a free ride.
its like the american debit card, nothing else
Did this conversation originally take place at the tower of Babble?
> The word for debt – Schulden, is almost the same as guilt – Schuld.
Actually it *is* the same. "Schulden" is just the plural of "Schuld".
Well sometimes you can learn something on these sites. Thanks for that interesting tid-bit of information.
Yes, you can. For example that being right (and keep on being right i.e. Prevail) is extremely important for germans. Look at The Schuld / Schulden debate
and i just came to say "How are you?"… but: there is no plural for "Schuld" when it means "guilt". However, there is a plural for "Schuld" when it means "debt". So Dirk, yes, check the Duden. It's right in there that one of the meanings has a plural, the other one doesn't. I guess this argument proves that Germans can be quite pendantic not only when it comes to jaywalking (although this is really very common here in Berlin as everybody is ignoring a red light when crossing the street naked. I mean it's wintertime and they are freezing their butts off…). But I guess quite a few commentators are imagined native speakers with a severe sense of sciolism…
It's the same word but it has two meanings. The saying "Sich etwas zu Schulden kommen lassen" uses both meanings and highlights the same origin.
Richtig!!! Duden never lies… there are different meanings for Schuld and for some it doesn't have plural and for other it does. 😉
it is no more important for Germans to be right than it is for anyone else! The Duden does show Schulden as the plural of Schuld, but that is in a different context to what everyone has been talking about.
Schulden is not the plural of Schuld. That's nonsense . A plural of Schuld doesn't exist.
Excuse me, he's right. The plural of 'schuld' is 'schulden'. Debts is the plural of debt, it's the same.
I am sorry, but no. Not in this case. "Schuld" is guilt here and "Schulden" is debts. 2 complete different words. And there is no singular for "Schulden"
"Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache". "Die Schuld", like in (Grundschuld) means the debt. "Die Schulden" plural means depts. "Du bist schuld" means You Are Guilty. To explain the easy way: Schuld with a capital letter means dept. schuld (lower case) means guilty. (I hate my own language 😉
Schwere Sprache, schöne Sprache!
I like your language. Its crazy. Cray is fun.
Cray Cray
hello happy new year
Be that as it may. That's English, the most ridiculous language.
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your explanation is wrong…
you can write "Schuld" with a capital letter as well as a noun and then it can still mean "guilt"
"Es ist deine Schuld, dass er gestorben ist."
so right…
how about when somebody ask you (as a salesgirl) "was schulde ich Dir? meaning, how much do i owe you? of course, you only say this when you know the salesgirl personally. yes, it sounds crazy, both words are spelled the same but means differently. But then Schulden is usually used for Debts, or Credit or Loan. When you borrow from the bank, you don't say "Ich habe Schuld bei der Bank", but you say, "Ich habe Schulden bei der Bank". That means you have a Loan or Credit from a bank. You don't say, I have guilt from a bank. so, that means Loan or Credit is plural hence, "Schulden" and guilt is singular, therefore "Schuld".and guilty is "Schuldig"
i mean, when you have credit or loan from a bank it's called "Schulden" and Schuld is also guilt. there is no plural in guilt (english) so there is also no plural in Schuld when you mean guilt. If you mean Schulden (or debt in english), it is always plural in german. while debt in english can be plural (debt or debts).
"To explain the easy way: Schuld with a capital letter means dept. schuld (lower case) means guilty. (I hate my own language ;-)"
Well, it's not that easy ;-]
Das ist deine Schuld – This is your fault
Also you are not explaining declension and conjugation of each ;-P
Also ich verstehe nicht wie man sich sooooo lange über Schuld unterhalten Kann… Hier die Antwort von Kai ist richtig.
Ich liebe es!
@Kai, you probably meant Debts, not depts. (because depts. is short-cut for department, meaning "Abteilung" only they don't generally use depts. in plural form)
And there's also a word for "guiltiness", or, well, guilt, which is "Schuld", and thus, indeed, the same as dept.
>>durch meine Schuld, durch meine Schuld, durch meine große Schuld
as the translation of the Confiteor has it.
@ Yvonne: and those two words are by no means related to each other? excuse me, but have you actually looked at ur own language???
I totally agree with You.
As a German speaking both English and Dutch quite fluently, and having a rough idea of french and other languages of latin origin (like Italian or Spanish), i can clearly see the relationship between those languages. Especially if you look at the Dutch language, you find many "old" German words, maybe spelled a little different, sometimes slightly altered in meaning. If you look at language this way, being able to see how words and their meaning can evolve over time, Schulden and Schuld clearly has the same origin. In German society being guilty and having debt is connected to the same feeling, and in general you will try to avoid it. Your grandmother told you to do so. For many of us having debt is connected to a feeling of imprisonment.
Yvonne, you are correct, the reason I know you're correct is that I was born and raised in Hessen, near the Bavarian border.Schuld in the singular means guilt, and in the plural – Schulden means debt.
Like I told Sara:
Schuld and schulden belong to the same "Wortfamilie"> word family
I think it´s kind of…. deep 😀
> And there is no singular for "Schulden"
"A lannister always pays his debts" — "Ein Lannister begleicht stets seine Schuld." There is a singular for "Schulden" (debts).
different translations does not mean it's not the same word in German. come on!
in very rare cases ppl use "Schulden" as a plural, but it is not necessary correct. it always depends on what the topic is about.
no it is not…
die Schulden – debt[finan.]
Also a verb – schulden – to be in debt. also in the accusative case and is the owe someone something.
there is a plural of Schuld xD here an example: Du bist "Schuld"singular… IHR seit die "Schuldigen"plural 😉
Schuldigen is NOT the plural of "Schuld".
Ein Schuldiger, zwei Schuldige…… or "Du bist der Schuldige", "Er ist der Schuldige", "Sie sind die Schuldigen".
it is. I am German. It is the plural. It acutally has the same origin. Since you owe money to somebody (schulden), as you are guilty of a crime. (schuld). There also is no difference in language.
Schuld and schulden belong to the same "Wortfamilie"> word family ^^
It is not. These are 2 different words.
No, there is no plural of Schuld. Both words are related though.
That is not right: "Schuld" is used for i.e. "es ist meine Schuld" meaning "it is my fault", but "Schulden" is only used for money you owe! There is no plural of Schuld.
Thank you. I was resisting the urge to correct that.
Schuld which means both dept and guilt/fault
Schuld = guilt/fault
Es ist meine Schuld (Its my fault)
Er ist schuldig (he is guilty)
Schuld = dept
Ich bin dir etwas schuldig/ Ich schulde dir etwas (I owe you one/something)
Ich stehe in deiner Schuld (I am in your dept)
"Credit cards by law have to be paid in full at the end of every month by law." — that´s not true.
That is a charge card, not a credit card. We have similar cards in the US, aka the American Express Green Card.
Or alternatively, the Gold or Platinum AMEX cards which are far better known examples of charge cards than the Green Card (a card I have no idea why anyone would apply for).
The Green Card? You mean the Green Card that allows people to live and work in the US?
Why would you mention an immigration document (I-551) when discussing a credit card thread?
last week I got a brand new McLaren F1 since getting a check for $6565 this – four weeks past and just over ten thousand this past-month . Without any question it's the most financially rewarding Ive had . I started this 4 months ago & practicaIIy straight away began to bring home over $86 p/h .
Visit my profiIe weblink to start immediately
It definitely is true with mine.
mine too
That's not true at all. I live in Leipzig. I have a visa card, from a German bank, and I have the option to pay as low as 10%. I don't use that option of course. But it's there.
I don't know where you got your information but there is no law stating that I have to pay off my card every month.
If I were to not pay for a couple months, then yeah they could request that I pay it off immediately. If I don't, it goes to a collection agency where I can pay it in rates if I want. It's basically exactly the same as in the states.
If Americans had to pay "as low as 10%" we'd be on trouble. Most Americans pay much, much less on their debt every month.
Crédit cards dont have to be paid in full at the end of the month by law. I get a bill every month with a minimal payment. I choose to pay in full. No law here says that I have to pay in full.
This may help explain the proverbial economical fortitude of Germany. Popularized non-moronic financial habits.
What fortitude, if anything these habits have held Germany back. If Germany was a state its GDP would rank 38th per capita, disposable income would rank 47th. The lack of debt by Germans has created a export society with a surplus of 7%, the problem with this is that you are at the whims of the Markets and currency exchanges.
Wait a moment! So you're saying that Germans refusing to go into debt is actually detrimental to their markets? The fact that they don't want to carry debt, which means they're paying interest on top of the regular money they're spending, is a good thing? Whims of the markets and currency exchanges? Please to be providing some sort of proof of this.
I don't do debt any more. Ever. If I can't pay cash outright, I don't buy it. As a result I have peace of mind that nobody can ever hold "owed money" over me as leverage. Why is it a bad thing to stay out of debt?
Liberals: where going into irrecoverable debt helps economies.
I hate this untrue cliche. German social programs would be considered purely left wing by American standards. And let's not forget the 2008 crash happened on "conservative" watch. Unfunded wars are such a "liberal" concept.
Go away. This is a conversation between intelligent adults. Your sophomoric regurgitation of your party line contributes nothing to it.
Math is math. Making it the people's math doesn't change that. No intelligent adult believes in leftist economic policies, even if we want to pretend there are any here.
Actually it does change it because "the people" for the most part are extremely bad at math. Look at average math test scores in the US: The stats don't lie.
Drink deep your Kool-Aid.
Wow, did the tea party send out a tweet?
Not sure why you are here then, you are apparently up past your bedtime or your reading level.
Debt is part of the free market, conservative ideology.
@disqus_xAJEvQc62R:disqus, your side has played an undeniable huge role in incurring irrecoverable national debt! Lemme start with the defense spending on SDI and expanding the US missile fleet in the 1980s under Ronald Reagan. He borrowed billions from China and Japan to finance it. Bush Jr did the same thing borrowing billions more from China to fund wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
But, in all fairness, shouldn't we consider defense spending as a percentage of GDP? Hey, I'm all for reducing the Pentagon's blank check, but, what is it per GDP?
Reagan is who turned the US into a debtor from a creditor. Read his own budget director David Stockman.
Having zero debt is impossible. The key is to not make the debt so incredibly large that you can't dig out. Besides, under Reagan the military was wisely built to smart levels, and folks were prosperous. Another issue he had to correct from the feckless Carter days.
Smart levels? Mutual annihilation and bloated military budgets were in place long before Reagan, and I remember frequent news articles on overpriced ash-trays and toilets while he was in office. That doesn't change no matter who is in the white house. There were a number of best selling books published during Carter's tenure of intelligence coming out that, one by a party defector, that purported that the Soviet Union was so far underwater that it was due any day to collapse economically. Even if I didn't agree with the policy of buildup, the credit that Reagan's worshipper's take for the manner of collapse of the USSR is every administration's to share, not just sleepy Ron.
The US has always had Debt. Only one president in US history President Andrew Jackson in 1835 had the US debt down to zero. Then two years later the economy went into what we today call a recession and the national debt climbed and never gone back. the Debt from Reagan in 8 years in office was 1.8T It went from .9T in 1981 to 2.7T when he left office in 1989. By Contrast under Obama its gone from 10T to 18T in 6 years meaning he added about the same in 1 year then Reagan did in all 8. And Obama has two years left to hit 20T thus doubling down Bush jr debt. Bush added 5T to the 5T he inherited in 8 years and Obama will raise it to 20T before its over in 2017.
Unfortunately, you miss out on leverage. While it's true that in general you shouldn't buy consumables and entertainment on debt (unless there is a net savings for doing so, such as with a promotional discount), incurring debt to build assets is fiscally advantageous. Provided you can service the debt, leverage from credit can enable you to build and grow faster and more efficiently.
Not all debt is bad. It depends on context and ability to service the debt. Having a credit card culture is a net positive, provided it is handled with intelligence and maturity (which consumer spending debt is typically not).
WHAaaattttt? All debt is bad But i agree that a credit card should be handle with intelligence and maturity, Which is exactly what Americans lack of…
No. All debt is not bad. There are good debts and bad debts. Corporations wouldn't be able to function without debt. The goal is to make more on the debt than the debt costs.
Buying a house on credit can save you money if the interest rate is low and the loan 15 yrs. Sure, its _better_ to be able to pay cash for a house, but the reality is, instead of interest on a loan, you'd be paying rent. The interest on my current loan for my home, doesn't come anywhere near what I'd be paying monthly in rent for even a half equivalent space.
There is truth in this. A $200,000 loan for 15 years at 4.5% would cost $275,400 over the life of the loan. Monthly payments would be $1,529.99. The same house would cost (depending on the location) about $1,500 per month in rent (I'm assuming the owner has a 30 year loan to ensure a positive cash flow).
At the end of 15 years you own the home (which is probably worth more like $250k to $400k by the time the loan is paid off). At the end of 15 years of renting, you own $0.00 in equity in the home.
What I would want to ensure people are not confused about is the fact that buying a home is NOT NOT NOT an "investment" (though it is possible to turn out that way, depending on the economy and housing market). It is what you would consider "good debt", as you will at least get something back out of it for money you would have been required to spend anyway.
I am not against debt itself. In the case of buying a home, I would indeed go into debt again. If I were in a bad position and HAD to have a car, I would go into debt for that as well (though likely only a couple thousand dollars to finance an a-to-b type vehicle, and would pay it off as quickly as possible). Beyond that, going into debt is a really, really bad idea.
Others have brought up business debt. I won't argue that point either. But that's not what I was responding to. There are legitimate, investment purposes for using credit when you are in a business. This is especially true for those whose business focuses on physical goods. But personal debt causes more trouble in the US than just about any other single issue an individual American faces. It causes divorces, job loss, loss of self-esteem, depression, and suicide. That's just a small list of the side-effects.
Thank you "illmnukeys" for pointing this out. It is important and a concept we need to increase awareness about.
Yes. But calculate taxes. Repairs. Interest and other expenses most people lose money on personal real estate. Read Rich man poor man
As a renter, every dollar you put in is a loss. As a house owner, at least the loss can be mitigated (and during good years, completely eliminated) by your equity. I don't depend on my home making me money: I depend on it keeping me from having to pay rent indefinitely. After 15 years, my mortgage payment ends, and I can live in a home for those taxes and maintenance costs. After 15 years of renting, you'll still be renting unless you've been putting money into a house fund instead of a retirement fund. I suggest you can do better with the retirement fund.
The mortgage tax credit still makes home ownership a smart move for most. There are exceptions to this.
Considering that I could be paying rent equal to what I pay in a mortgage, taxes and repairs, and not live in anything close to what I live in,while also building up a solid chunk of equity, even with the recent setbacks, I've gained in recent years. Not to mention all the crap in my basement I've been able to hoard.
Purchasing a home on cash isnt necessarily a good thing. I would argue it is a bad thing. I have made far more money having the cash available and investing it then the interest I have paid out on mortgages.
I'd agree (depending entirely upon credit worthiness and loan terms) but when one is under the impression all debt is bad, getting one to make the jump you can actually make money on debt seems difficult to me. I get into this discussion with my wife all the time on my 2% interest student loans. She wants me to pay them off: I point out that if I put the extra money beyond the minimum payment into my retirement, we'd make off better. Once you get into the mind set "all debt is bad", this concept doesn't go down easy even when you show the math.
So you'd recommend taking out a mortgage on my paid-for house, so I'll have some cash on hand to do investing?
Depending on where you stand in life and your level of discipline. If you realize that managing stock investments means not getting caught up in short term cycles and you have enough years until retirement then yes.
Kyle—That is exactly why the US is screwed for ever..with that debt mentality deeply indented in their brains…
Yes, the German neurosis about debt (dating to the period between the two World Wars) is holding them back. Yes, if you go into debt you get charged interest… but if the initial investment earns a return rate greater than the interest rate then you've made profits that you couldn't have without taking on the debt. Sure, if you are unable to pay your debt interest at agreed rates then you could wind up in a situation where your creditor robs you blind (cf. Greece and Germany currently)… clearly a bad thing. However, if you only take on debt you can repay and make additional profits from… clearly a good thing.
I personally have set my bank account personally to never drop into dept. It will refuse payment, if there is not enough money 🙂
Germans simply refuse to adapt to your American concept of Turbo capitalism.
I understand that, and every model shows that Germany in the next 20 years will be in very hard times because of it. You can only raid on the Wealth of the rest of Europe to sustain your growth.
After World War 2, Germany was partitioned into several zones of occupation, this occupation didn't officially end until 2000. You had a Military governor in each zone that was actually the approving authority on everything. Germany was a nation in name only. Each zone had huge influence on the local population and how it conducted business and policy. Bonn could ratify all the laws they wanted, but the real power was held by the military governors in there zones of Ocupatiion, they had the authority to override or tweak any legislation from Bonn. Why is this important today. Each region has developed a Economic model that mimicked the powers that controlled each zone. Fast forward today, while Berlin controls with almost absolute authority and the diminishing of local governments, what was set in place before was very important. In the South of Germany they practice economically very much more Laize-Faire economics than the North and the East. Its no coincidence that the two Southern States are very much the Economic might of Germany. Those two states have about 25% of the German population but produce 46% of German products, have higher wages and jobs galore. They practice a watered down form of US economic policy. Its not coincidence that the states are very much more liberal minded when it comes to Economics and that they laid both in the US zone of occupation.
Where did you go to school to learn this, Logical American? I hope it didn't cost you a lot because it would have been wasted money! To say that each zone of occupation had a military governor until the year 2000 is so breathtakingly ignorant that it defies the imagination! Even if that had been the case, though, to correlate that to the economic success of the Southern part of Germany versus the North is yet another case of mistaking correlation with causation — something else they should have taught you in school!
Economic liberalism means something very different than what most hicks think of as "librul". They call socialist/welfare state policies liberal because of the 1960s when from an economist standpoint they are not liberal AT ALL. In the USofA, the left favors personal freedom and opposes economic freedom. The right has always agitated for unrestricted economic freedom but opposed personal freedom with the exception of firearms. But in reality, both of these things are bad.
This command is so incorrect I don´t even know where to begin. First: There was no American military governor in Germany since 1949, which means in conclusion that there was one for only 4 years. I can hardly imagine that in those 4 years this military governor changed (or even influenced) the whole existing economic system in his zone of occupation. The Federal Republic of Germany is a nation and not only by its name since the 23rd of May 1949 and since then there is no other authority (like a military governor) then the democratically elected government. Second: You might be right that Bavaria was in the American zone but most parts of Baden-Wuerttemberg (except of the north east) were French so your conclusion that their economic system was adapted from the US because they were under American control is not logical at all. Third: The "Economic might" of the south of Germany dates way back before the second or even the first world war and has absolutely nothing to do with America and the fact that you think it does can only be called "American arrogance". Big companies like e.g. Daimler (Mercedes), BMW and Audi were founded in Stuttgart, Munich and Ingolstadt long before the second world war and without any involvement of the USA.
Just like HappyEuropean I can only wonder who taught you this nonsense?
This is untrue at a deep level as well. The admittance of Greece to the EU with it's cooked books was not a complete surprise to the German government or anyone following the discussions, and I am amazed that we don't hear more frequently how Deutsche Bank was paid out 100 cents on the dollar with American bailout funds. I like a lot of things regarding German's approach to economic matters, but in this, there is no simply anything.
Did you correct for purchasing power? I highly doubt your 47th rank.
Credit Cards don't have to be paid completely by end of the month in Germany. It's just a habit. It's not that easy to qualify for. Banking system is very different than in the US and under stricter control by the government. Most people manage their finances well and pay cash or debit most things. Car or homes are financed as in the US but with an lower interest on the average loan or credit card. Interest is equal to everyone. The score doesn't matter. The score helps the bank only to decide rather you get a loan or not. If you qualify for a credit card a 5% mtl minimum payment of the balance is due. There might be some exceptions…
Another thing I never understood about credit cards (at least here in the US) – the way your interest rate RISES if your credit score is lower. The banks are like evil spiders, weaving a web to trap the ones they know have trouble meeting their payments in order to suck them dry. I've never given them a dime, I pay off all my credit monthly.
Private property is limited and far more expensive to acquire in Germany and Europe. If someone owns property, it's often because they inherited it from family and it's been in their family for a few generations, but there are notable exceptions. They also deal with mortgages and loans for buying property slightly different than in the U.S. and It's a bit harder to get approved for a loan. Also, buying a house with a white picket fence and popping out a bunch kids isn't exactly a cultural value as prevalent in Germany and much of Central and Western Europe, as it is in the U.S. If anything, credit cards are more prevalent in the U.S. because of our cultural values and how much value we put into being perceived as monetarily and materialistically wealthy.
Agreed. I have a credit card, but it gets automatically paid by the end of the month from my checking.So no overdraws
Oh my god, making up laws, are we?
I think low property ownership has to do with the tradition of social housing and legislation to protect the tenants and very strong tenants organizations. In that context renting is very often a better deal than owning.
German native speaking. In case you spend some time thinking you may realise that "Schulden" (depts) arise when you owe someone. In that case you are (guilty) of something so "It's your fault!" means "Deine Schuld!" So you are in dept cause you are guilty. Ist your fault so you have depts. It is your Schuld now you have Schulden. The words are pretty equal if you think about it.
Sorry but there is German credit cards out there which can be paid off in installments. My minimum payment was 50€ or 5% of the balance.
"It may explain why Germany has the lowest property ownership in Europe"
Well, at least the most of the property that germans own is really their property and is not owned by the bank because of debts 😉 And that could be the reason why Germany wasn't affected that much during the financial crisis starting at 2008.
"The word for debt – Schulden, is almost the same as guilt – Schuld"
Well, as some others mentioned before that's nonsense. It just sounds nearly the same, but be sure, we germans can differentiate very good between "Schuld" and "Schulden" 😉
not true, says a german
No, they do not have to paid in full by law. It solely up to the card issuer and the card holder on what terms they agree.
Well, it's not true, what you just described in terms of credit cards.
True Klaasklever
I am German,working in the US right now, hardly use a Credit Card and if I pay the whole Balance of at once, which my American Neighbours find crazy.
im American, but I was raised with a no debt mindset. I use my credit card for particular actions (such as online purchases) but I always pay it off completely by the end of the month. Basically, only a fool spends money they don't have and it is truly sad that my country largely does not understand this concept. I am sure I have saved myself thousands in interest payments alone just from this simple concept!
I agree completely.
However when you have a government that spends like there is no end to the cash flow what do you expect.
You forget though that the German equivalent to the US credit card is the Dispo. So even if people pay with a Debit Card in Germany it does not mean that they have the money. And a personal line of credit is way more uncommon in the US than in Germany
I'm German living in the States. I have a saying: If you cant' pay cash for it, you can't afford it! Major items like House and Car excluded!
I've had credit cards since college. I graduated 25 years ago and NEVER carried a balance. To me my credit card is just a safe form of cash. I'm smart enough to NOT over spend every month. As a matter of fact I get about $500 cash back yearly for buying everything on credit. I'm the customer Bank of America hates!
I work in retail and believe me…more often than not, I see wallets FULL…positively stuffed FULL of charge cards from every retailer we have in the area. i'm American and I cannot fathom such nonsense. I have one debit card and one charge card only for Internet or emergencies. We're not all that dumb, but a LOT of Americans are.
Sounds like what I do in America. Aldi doesn't take credit here either. I know many Americans rack up debt, but not me!
Why use credit cards? Apart the fact that germans dislike taking a credit/debt everyone owns a maestro EC card from his bank. Commonly ONE ec card (not like many credit cards…). You can pay everywhere with that, including the rest of the world. I travel to south america with my card, no problem. With a credit card you have mostly extra costs for the card (except of dirct/online banks) – well and sometimes insurances you don´t need.
btw: Germans dislike to use credit cards for online payments, since it´s unsafe and an unnecessary risk.
I have two German credit cards (American living in Germany since 1998). I only use them for cash advances and very rarely when I order something over the Internet. Usually when I try to order something by credit card on the Internet, they require so many secret codes and other net-keys, etc., that I don't even know what they are or when I place the order they don't accept the card. The credit cards have very high interest rates and usually still have annual fees, which I believe the Amercian banks eliminated years ago. My debit card functions as a credit card anyways. I can overdraw my account by up to 2000 Euros.
I (a German) can tell you that this is total bullshit! EYERY Aldi or Lidl or Rewe or whatever accepts credit cards.. To all Americans out there, who still believe that Germany is a third world country – we DO have internet, water pipes, electricity and even credit cards !
Sorry, Aldi and Lidl do NOT accept credit cards unless they are the German chipped ones. I'm living in Germany and shop at both of those stores weekly. It's not about being a third world country…it's just that it is done differently here than in America.
I think you got that confused. Credit card means Visa, Mastercard or American Express (which no one accepts anyways).
no, Aldi accepts debit cards. Also, you might not want to try to fight stereotypes about germany by using stereotypes about the US Lenchen.
Germans might not use credit cards, but you can also pay cashless with your bank account card. This takes the money directly from your bank account. This way you can pay nearly everywhere, except in some restaurants and some very small stores and it's very common.
Credit Cards are used in Germany mostly for buying extrem expensive stuff oder for online shopping, when you can't pay with easier methods.
This is not true! A lot of Germany people have credit card. I am from. Germany, so I should know that. All of my friends and my family have their own credit card. and if you want to pay with your credit card in Germany in Aldi or lidl, whatever you are buying needs to be over 10€. The only stores you can't pay with a credit card are small stores like ice cream stores or something like that. just by the way
wo lebst du denn dass dein aldi kk nimmt? nicht mal in der hauptstadt nimmt aldi kk an.
Are you sure you mean a credit card and not a debit card ("EC-Karte")?
Well, i, as a German, can say that almost nobody does own or use a credit card as most of the stores don't accept them.
If you do have one, it can help you booking flights on the internet and maybe sometimes, if you're lucky, you can pay with it, but this is the absolute exception.
I do this
Absolutely untrue K. Perhaps in the smaller villages people don't use credit cards so much, and very senior people-but everyone else does! I was using credit cards regularly in Germany 15 years ago, no prob!
But everybody has a debit card though. It's not like people pay cash!
I'm German and used to work in a German bank. German credit cards usually have a monthly limit. The customer and the banker talk about the income and payment morale to figure out if the customer is trustable to give him a "monthly loan". It's common to have a credit card limit about 3 times of what your monthly income is (income = €1500, credit card limit = €4500).
By the time one month has gone by, and the customer used his credit card for, let's say, €1000, the bank takes the €1000 from the customer's checkings account to balance the credit card on €0. So, by this day, the customer has to have at least €1000 in his checkings account to balance the credit card. If he can't pay his monthly credit card bill, he gets in trouble with his bank.
Germans more likely use cash or debit cards, so that the money gets subtracted directly from the checkings account. There are also "prepaid credit cards" which you load money on and then use it until it's empty or top up. It's like cash basically, just in a card.
I hope that makes sense to you, lol!!
How about this:
The German Word for earning Money is "verdienen". This means that you have to lower yourself to serve someone or something. The basic attitude behind that is that earning Money is considered to be a exausting process. Maybe this is why germans tend to put a higher value in everything they own.
For example I was raised with one fundamental view concerning money: you Caen only buy things if you got the Same amount of Money on your bankaccount ( exept houses or cars)
This is very true.
That is one thing that is a bit annoying. As an American who lived decades in Europe (mainly Germany), it is understandable, but hard to buy big ticket items. Even places like Ikea and better furniture stores do not take credit cards or any other debit cards–only the EC Card. That is the original debit card in Germany, and I have refused to get one since I don't like supporting monopolies, which is what it is. So a trip to get some nice furniture can turn into a couple of trips since once you know what you want, you will have to return later with a pocket full of cash to pay for it. As one who always pays off his credit card bills every month by direct debit, I would really prefer to be able to use a card (non EC). Now in the UK, it is the opposite, with people buying candy bars with a credit card.
It could be that she didn't speak German at the time of that incident, or it could be that she *did* speak German but wanted to pretend that she didn't?
While the rest of the people on here argue if credit cards are really commonly used in Germany (which they arent) let me say that this blog hit it right on the spot! Also as an American moving to Germany I went through the same things in one way or another or when I asked my husband or his family if it was true about the whole nudity thing, they always said yes like it was no big deal. Only time people were actually nice to me was when my husband was around or they knew me through him. Ive learned not to smile at people on the sidewalk or when I see someone staring haha!
Might I suggest you actually spend five or six years living in Germany instead of just learning the language and visiting a guest house for a week or two… You may find yourself better able to Iidentify with a few of the lighter moments of being an American suddenly immersed head-first into Germann culture.
'Morgen 😉
As an East-German I find this article very accurate. The author used to live in East Germany too, so that´s probably the difference.
This is a light-hearted little article, not her doctorate. Not sure what the big problem is here. It's pretty accurate, if you ask me. And I know a thing or two about Germans, I am one of them. And, let me tell you, while you can pay things by credit card in Germany, it really is uncommon still, in 2015.
Were do you live? CC are quite common. I agree that the article is quite correct, but the red light part is totally bogus. No stares for crossing a red light as a pedestrian as long as there is no child around. But yes, if children are watching, this behavior is considered reckless.
I'm currently an American who lives in Stuttgart, Germany, and I can easy say there are more than a handful of places out here in Stuttgart that still do not accept American Credit Cards (Mastercard, Visa, American Expresss, etc). IKEA for example, or big furniture stores like Gamerdinger do not accept CC's at all. Either you pay with paper cash or a German EC card. Its quite frustrating at times. It does help save from spending, but makes it difficult to purchase larger items.
yes even a lot of mcdonalds dont accept credit or ec cards. (franchise stores)
I was not able to pay my food by credit card when I was stranded without euros at the train station in Frankfurt Main. go figure.
Not in Lidl/Aldi/Netto though. 😉
Actually our local Aldi store here in america doesn't accept credit cards either. Debit cards, yes, but no credit cards.
Aldi expanded into the US? I did not know that…
Hej.Don´t get oversensitive about…All what she is saying is that you americans are fucked up and she is a little less fucked up now because she shook off a bit of for example your double morals about nudity and that is true…American men wait a whole year to get the next catalog from Victoria's secret, blur the breast of a native African women on NAT GEO. and everybody is terrified by a pair of breast in public. In Europe we live with what we earn, You Guys are born in debt, you are fucked for ever paying your tuition and so forth, We use Bank debit cards more that credit cards because we don't live the lavish lifestyle you Americans live, The biggest house, the biggest TV the biggest all…Bling, bling, Just like Shania Twain's song…"CASHING"…so…If you just wanted to say that you speak fluent German you do not need to bash the writer…
We heard your tripe once, heifer.
So, does cutting/pasting the same response in multiple places make it more true? Save it. Have you ever spent time – like real time not just a vacation – in the USA? I'm the farthest thing from what we call a flag waver but you're just so off the mark it's almost comical.
Hej.Don´t get oversensitive about…All what she is saying is that you
americans are fucked up and she is a little less fucked up now because
she shook off a bit of for example your double morals about nudity and
that is true…American men wait a whole year to get the next catalog
from Victoria's secret, blur the breast of a native African women on NAT
GEO. and everybody is terrified by a pair of breast in public. In
Europe we live with what we earn, You Guys are born in debt, you are
fucked for ever paying your tuition and so forth, We use Bank debit
cards more that credit cards because we don't live the lavish lifestyle
you Americans live, The biggest house, the biggest TV the biggest
all…Bling, bling, Just like Shania Twain's song…"CASHING"…so…If
you just wanted to say that you speak fluent German you do not need to
bash the writer…
I wasn't the least bit offended by this article, I agree with her on the way most Americans act unfortunately. I must point out though, your broad generalization of all Americans is very unfair. I was not born into debt nor do I have any debt at all now. I am a responsible adult who is willing and able to live within my means. My husband and I do not use credit cards at all, I see them as irresponsible. I certainly don't have the biggest TV or the biggest house, that isn't important to me. My children and husband are what matters most, we spend more money on healthy food then we do anything else. Unfortunately eating healthy is considered a luxury in America. One thing I strongly dislike about our Country though is how absolutely prude and close minded everyone is. They pretend to be otherwise but it's not the truth. Women can't even breastfeed in public without being made to feel like a serial killer. I do hope that changes in the future, I certainly have raised my children to be open minded and accepting. All Americans are not the same, as I imagine is true for Germans.
And you Germans are happy to give half of your hard earned dollars to the government to waste and spend as they please. Just like not going into debt, many Americans pay their college tuition as they go and don't get any ridiculous school loans. We can also learn a new skill or occupation at 40, but it's too late if you are a German, since big government is paying for classes.
pepjrp, times have maybe changed a bit since you were in school. The average American undergrad college debt in 2014 was $33,000 (mine was $20,000 in 2003). Graduate students now owe $57,600 on average. One quarter of graduate students are over $100,000 in debt. I am over $70,000 in debt. Let me explain how this can happen.
I paid for most of my undergrad myself (at community college) but incurred $20,000 worth of debt during my last two years at a university which was close to average debt for a bachelor's degree at the time .
As a graduate student, I had a tuition waiver for teaching (TA) but there were $3,000 worth of program fees every year that were not covered so I took out loans for those and ended up with $7,000 debt by the end of my masters.
I couldn't get a job in my field after graduating (bioinformatics was relatively new and most of the jobs I applied for wanted 5-10 years experience or a PhD). I took a $40k a year job as a student coordinator and a part time faculty associate position teaching mathematics. Working 7am to 7pm every day, I managed to pay off some of my undergrad loans (bringing my total debt down to $25k).
I then spent 4 years in a math Ph.D. program (concentration bioinformatics). My advisor left after the second year (didn't make tenure and moved back to China), the department split up (many departments reorganize like this and form schools). The applied mathematicians were placed in a separate department and my program was discontinued (no new admits). I could not procure another advisor in my department because all of the professors had "too many students already" or wanted theoretical (as opposed to computational) students. Without an advisor, I lost my financial support (TA/RA) and spent the second two years paying my own tuition ($8000 per semester) via loans while searching for another advisor/committee chair. After 2 years without an advisor, I was totaling $57,000 in debt. I decided to cut my losses and start over in a new department that didn't require me to pay my own tuition. I was a straight A student and passed all of my exams but only 6 credits (less than two classes) transferred to the next Ph.D. program and I had to retake all of my exams.
I am now in my fourth year of my second Ph.D. program. Unfortunately, around the time I started this program, laws changed and graduate students were no longer allowed to take out subsidized stafford loans. So far, I have taken out $16,000 in unsubsidized loans (similar to a credit card where interest begins adding up on day one before you even set foot in a classroom). This money has all gone towards "fees" totaling $3000 every year (which are actually a state tax that is not covered by the tuition waiver) and I also have to pay for student health insurance (insurance is required to work and it comes close to $1000 a year). The average student in my department takes 6-7 years to graduate. I hope to graduate this December but I am pregnant and this may delay things.
Graduate students are not allowed to work anywhere else besides their department (if they are caught, they risk losing their tuition waiver). Grad students in my department make on average $17,000 a year (which may actually seem like a lot since the average grad student at FSU makes $12-13k a year) but a studio apartment here is too expensive for me and I have had to live with a series of 23 year old graduate student roommates. I don't drink or party like them. I travel once a year to visit family, I only buy clothes secondhand, I cut my own hair, I eat ramen noodles and other super-cheap foods… because I am literally that poor.
My fiance is doing his Ph.D. in Germany and has no school debt or medical debt. I am afraid that if I don't graduate, I will have trouble finding a roommate after I have the baby in September and not be able to afford to live without taking out additional loans. I really don't want to be in the 25% of grad students who are $100k-in-debt but I think it might be a possibility. Once my baby is born I will be just above the poverty line (which is $15,730) so I don't think I will qualify for any food or healthcare assistance.
You may think I made bad decisions, and maybe I have, but no one in my family graduated high school and I have had to figure all this stuff out on my own. You just don't see this kind of debt in other countries.
This should be a national shame of ours, FinallyGraduating. Student interest rates compared to banks alone are criminal, and directly at odds with building a middle class. The nature of the GI bill after WWII created huge numbers of educated and skilled professionals, and a huge boom in american innovation and science, but you won't hear this on the congressional floor.
MrWhiffle,…should you write her to avoid facts also?…
Danielle, you misunderstand MrWhiffle. He supports FinallyGraduating and argues against this new elitist attitude toward education in the US. The extremely wealthy minority in the US is slowly (well, perhaps not so slowly anymore) managing to squeeze the middle class out of being able to educate their children well, which will eventually create the huge lower class they long to exploit as workers, so they don't have to outsource anymore.
What's most frightening about this is that small business owners in the US have been duped into supporting a party that has long since been taken over by the extremely wealthy. They blindly support a party that tries to convince them that they built their small businesses with no support from government, while at the same time they work to remove governmental restrictions that allowed these small businesses to flourish in the first place.
You would't have believed the backbending, Gumby-like twisting postures we were subjected to during the last major election campaign here.
No Lethe…He replied to one of my prior comments with "NO FACTS HERE PLEASE" That is my reply about…
Yeah, I got a used sportscar – A LUXURY ITEM – at 1.9%. But when my friend went to community college and took out half the amount of my car loan, they didn't get anywhere near 1.9%. It's absolutely absurd.
What a great example. I do not think anybody is gonna dispute such a strong point you made across.
Proud of you, girl, for sticking to it through adversity. And as an American woman, I'm appalled at the way education overall is slowly becoming viewed here as a 'privilege' rather than a right. That was not the principle this country was founded on, and it will probably be our downfall. How have we lost sight of the fact that in a democracy, an EDUCATED populace is our best hope? How do you give up on your children like that? What HAPPENED here?
Many Americans? Lol. NO. Most college-going Americans have to get student loans. That means "many" is not a word to use. "Some", perhaps. But they're privileged from birth, anyway, if they can afford it.
Meine liebe Deutschen…bitte die "teabaggers" ignorieren. Die sind Unruhigstifter und liebe Aerger.
Danke. We're trying to ignore them too but most times it just don't work. 😛
You know nothing of America aside from what you see on TV. Man, your post is embarrassing, especially the Shania Twain quote as an example of "typical" American behavior. Do us all a favor and stay wherever it is you live.
Shania twain is a Canadian
Please avoid facts, here, thank you.
Facts a are actually that….FACTS. NOT MADE UP, reality.
Yes but the Lyrics of the song are inspired on the American mentality, So, If she is Canadian she should not sing country music? Get the damn point.
I lived 13 years in that country. 2 OF my three daughters are born there and live there so I Know what I am talking about. I left disgusted and get more and more disgusted as I see my daughters becoming 2 egoistic, narcisistic , consumeristic bimbos with a mentality of a peanut and blame myself having 4ever marrying an American, lived in america and let them live There long enough to lose them. So. I Know what I am talking about Cause I do not watch TV To avoid pieces of America popping up everywhere. That is how disgusted I am.
Americans are brainwashed, from the time they can speak, with the most powerful propaganda on Earth, the primary "lesson" of which is that "America is Number One". Trying to convince the majority of Americans that everything American is not vastly superior is futile. The place is a Dystopian "Reality Show" of greed, violence, anti-intellectuality, racism, insanity and tasteless kitsch sprinkled, here and there, with fading reminders of former accomplishments. It's a big country, so even the small percentage of people who are sane and unselfish and intelligent represents millions of people who are trapped, through no fault of their own, in the belly of a techno-fascist empire that spends the great bulk of its wealth openly attacking the rest of the planet… and I feel sorry for these people. But even some of them are thoroughly brainwashed and it's nearly impossible to open their eyes to Reality. And that's where America really is Number One: in brainwashing… Aka "Entertainment".
Good luck with your daughters!
STaugustine. I already accepted that my daughters are already "gone"..Agree 100% with your comment.
You forgot to mention "sheeple".
hahaha! so true! 🙂
YOU! young "Lady" I use that term with reservation have a foul mouth and don't know what you're talking about. In my days your mouth would have been washed out with soap. Your comment came from your Arsch and should have stayed there!
That was back in your ancient times. my great grand Used to say that.
You're not German, so keep your dirty mouth shut, your language is disgusting! Did it come from the same mouth you eat with or from your Arsch?
I watch Nat Geo all of the time and have never seen a blurred breast of a native. Not on TV, not in their magazines.
Some people are terrified about breasts in public, sure, but there is a growing movement to push against those people, and more and more cities are making it legal to be a topless woman in public.
Well… As a German, born in Saxony near Leipzig, all these things she mentioned do apply. Especially in Eastern Germany it is true that FKK nude beaches on lakes, the baltic sea or nude saunas with mixed genders is a very common thing until these days… Who growed up in former East Germany is still into it.
It is also true that you daily means can't be purchased generally with an credit card. The fees for the stores are very high. Tourist attractions, gas stations or fancy shopping malls do accept them. Grocery shopping, paying you monthly bills need to be paid in chash or by the EC (debit) card. I work and live in the US since 2005 and you do not need to speak fluent the language of the foreign countries you are exploring to figure their habits, pro's and con's out. I visit "meine Heimat" twice a year. There are plenty of things they suck compared to the US, she probably haven't experienced them yet. I hope she has a great stay in one of the most gorgeous and historic cities of Germany.
I'm pretty sure some of us would be interested in your opinion from your perspective. I found the police state mentality extremely concerning every time I visited the U.S.
Police state mentality? Are you sure you ever left Germany?
I don't think Hans is off here. The German culture tends to self-police a lot more, and the need for law enforcement, and non police, but uniformed checkpoints (parks, mass transit, etc) are much more common in the U.S. I can visit my in-laws and never see a police car in the village my entire stay. It is for this reason I often go on crime sprees on my visits there. I try to abscond with at least 2 single beer bottles, some ikea furniture, and several links of sausage. The trick is to get past the steel shutters that cause a deafening clamor throughout the village promptly at dusk.
OMG those steel shutters! I spend at least 2 weeks in Germany every year and those things make me laugh every time. They look like hurricane shutters that one might see in South Florida. When was the last time a hurricane hit Cologne?!
I thought it was some sort of missile defense, lol.
Actually the author is very right. Most German only use their credit cards for internet shopping. Germans definitely rather prefer either EC cards or money in their pockets. The part about nudity she specified to be a particularly Eastern German thing. As a German who also has spent several months in the U.S. I am actually quite amazed she got most of it figured out quite well, except the thing with the stoplight, which no one cares about in a big city like Berlin.
Again kudos to the author and I salute you being an especially less ignorant person than others. Willkommen
LOL, flirting well is one of the hardest things to translate! All the little gestures you're used to in your native land can turn into something quite different in another culture.
It's a pity that you don't see the article as what it is: a personal subjective impression of Germany after a few moths of stay here. She is clearly stating that it is her own view of things and not an academic study of the cultural differences. Contrary to you most people, who are not experts of another country recognise mainly the superficial stereo-types, but the most important part is, that she is obviously enjoying her stay!
Talking about credit cards: yes, you can pay at many places with it, but compared to the US and UK it is still rather uncommon and not accepted in discounters or other grocery stores.
its a well-known fact that americans are far more conservative thanks to your puritan past.. most cultures are accepting of nudity but americans are soooo conventional – the strong christian right in this country has the majority of you embarrassed about being naked. LOL try walking into a men's locker room and watch them scramble to put a towel around themselves so noone will see them naked! they are paranoid! the same at the beach when changing from swimsuits to clothing most have it down to an art where they can actually wrap the towel around them and pull their swimsuit off underneath and at the same time slip on a pair of pants. But some struggle to keep the towel on. it's hilarious!, and as a shit-stirring aussie I love to go naked and make fun of it when i can. it works well on the mainland tourists in hawaii when you want them to vacate your waterfall… just take it all off… 🙂 nothing makes americans feel more uncomfortable. Additionally, the credit card issue is now global thanks to american corporations, so you have american culture to blame for that which is now taking over the entire world (TPP is a good example). I think this article is correct in that it touches upon many characteristics of americans that you'll notice about them where ever they are on the planet. Hopefully the girl that wrote it is more worldly through her experience. it sounds like you should drop some of your american characteristics and live like a german, for starters try paying with cash only.
ehm, she is right. I'm sitting here laughing and screaming as this is exactly what I experienced the other way around, moving to the states at the age of 24.
And credit card is not credit card!!! A credit card in germany is a card that your bank allows you to spend more money that you have. The other one, standard visa, master etc is a bank card.
I do agree to you. As a German reading this I feel a bit like the author has traveled to the Moon to discover that people there aren't THAT different, but different enough to state superficial things.
If you really want to get a hang of German culture, you shouldn't just stay in one region. Explore the country and then try telling me that every German likes free body culture oder hardly ever uses a credit card.
I supose it is like saying a guy from Texas is the same as a guy from New york.
I spent four years in France, they have a liberal view on nudism but it isn't that common. I'd say most of the article is true for France too.
Sorry, but as a German, having lived in the US most of my life and now living back in Europe and visiting Germany every 2 months, no it is NOT possible to pay everything with a credit card. you can pay with your bank card, which is similar to a debit card, but not a credit card, Even Ikea does NOT accept credit cards ( unless they are their own)
@Geisterfahrerin: You speak German, but are you actually German? There is a difference, y'know.
Maybe she was just commenting on her experiences. Doesn't seem like she was lecturing us. It's supposed to be a fun read, not homework.
If you think that lacks any valid weight, then please give an overview of all lacking validity (meaning a description of how it lacks validity). I'm curious about some of them especially the one about the signs. I nearly got fired from a job due to this "american" custom. Thanks!
At no point, in this written piece, was there any mention that the writer was incapable of speaking German.
When the person was talking about the flat tire, the author said in German that he/she speaks little German.
Was she really not able to speak German, or was she saying that to get him to leave her alone?
Couldn't agree more. What if I take my negative experiences in Germany and make them into a consolidated assessment of German culture?
American habits you'll lose in Germany:
You'll start becoming dissatisfied with everything; there is nothing that is without error. You will lose the ability to think abstractly or creatively, thinking only about things logically or mechanically. Yóu will feel the need to be first for everything, run over children to get a seat on the train, be unable to line up for anything, and constantly huff and puff in disapproval when something doesn't go your way in the slightest i.e. having to make space on the train in the morning for someone to sit down. Terribly sorry your bag has to go on the floor now! You also will be unable to say "excuse me" when you need to get by, as if the person in your way should somehow be able to read your thoughts.
By stating this, I'm in no way saying America has got it down pact. We have tons of problems with our culture and it's part of the reason I live in Germany, but it is not monolithically superior to American culture. There are pros and cons from both.
Andrew, I can fully relate to your post. I am romanian, came to Germany 15 years ago and it still gives me creeps when I remember that I am stuck here. So much negativity, this need for perfection, the complainings about everything, the failings to acknowledge that different people do things in different manners- it is killing me inside. I know, i´ve heard it so many times "if you don´t like it, leave" oh and how I would, but I can´t. The german laws not allow me to take the children outside the borders (and I not mean holidays-for the smartie-pants that will comment) and I am not wealthy enough to throw money in court for that. Germany is not a happy place to live for anybody other than germans. I came here visiting many times before and I was fascinated, but after I settled here the black gate opened. The thing that hurt me to my core happened one afternoon, when my car stopped functioning on a national road. I was panicking a bit and tried to stop some cars for help. Eventually one of them stopped and a woman came out telling me angrilly that I had forgotten to set my triangle- and left. She just left. Well, in the end, it was not a german, that helped me, it was an american soldier.
Very interesting point that one of the dark side of Germany (negativity, pesimism, criticism that would be defended and softened by others as being "objective or realistic").
I didn't know that your kids couldn't leave the country, does that apply to every foreigner that has kids with a german?
FKK is very common in east Germany, but considerably less common in the west. It is explained in the article. There are some significant discrepancies between the east and the west.
I grew up with FKK in East Germany. Still loving it; there are nude beaches here in Belgium too. It's just a great feeling to be naked at the beach.
You have obviously not lost the American habit of thinking your experience is the end all be all of experiences and you and only you are uniquely qualified to comment on something.
I've been to Hamburg a couple times, and albeit the nude lifestyle that I have no experience with, everything else rings very true with my experience. ESPECIALLY using credit cards!!! They are most certainly NOT accepted almost everywhere now. And places that DO have the necessary equipment for them, often lack people who know how to use them, because they are almost never used. Don't listen to this crazy person, if you're going to Germany make sure you get some cash at some point, you'll be hurting without it. Also my intention is not to make this a negative thing, I love Germany, and really don't have anything bad to say about it as of yet.
i live in germany and i totally aggree with you on that.
Albeit the nude lifestyle which I have no experience with, I have been to Hamburg twice now and have to say everything else here rings very true with my experience. ESPECIALLY when it comes to credit cards!!! They are most certainly NOT "accepted almost everywhere now". When merchants DO have the necessary equipment, the employees often struggle figuring out how to use them because they are almost NEVER used!!! I don't see how anyone can argue with that. Just sit in a store and watch how people pay, you'll see. Also this isn't meant to be a negative thing, it is just an observation and I really have nothing negative to say about Germany. Just don't listen to this crazy person ^^^, if you go to Germany make sure you get some cash at some point, you'll be hurting without it!
Totally. I mean i'm glad she got over her fear of nudity and learnt to accept her big hooter but I essentially agree with you.
This conversation thread went on much longer than expected before discussions of liberal vs conservative American views came up (which of course they had very little to do with an article about a single person's opinions and views truncating a rich and diverse culture into a 9 whimsical observations) well done! I think I may actually take the time to read the comments on international forums that have little to do with US politics, more often. I actually learned a good deal from the productive yet argumentative discourse provided.
Just my 2 cents… Thanks for the interesting 10 minutes of reading!
its like im moving to new york and write an article about los angeles. i hate those americans running around in berlin and telling me how the germans are. honey you dont speak german in berlin.. you know nothing
Well if this isn't the rudest and most pretentious answer then I don't know what is. The author isn't "disrespecting" Germans in any way, and clearly her use of examples to prove an overall point has been lost on you. She wasn't trying to start a pissing contest of "who knows the most/most pure information about Germany," she was simply giving her account and how her life and perceptions have changed since she started living and working there.
You don't need to be a master German language speaker to recognize cultural differences between countries. Come on now, don't be a dick. You don't look any better for it.
I think the commenter just wanted to brag about living in Germany and speaking the language. Holier than thou attitude.
I lived in Germany, spent many holidays there and speak the language. I think that this is cute and funny.
Thanks for poiting this out. FKK for me as a German is a strange thing either.
I have serveral credit cards and I use them. Some of them you can even pay back in rates. Why should it be much different than in other countries?
And the thing with the insurance is just to protect yourself from high costs of things that might get damaged and not because I am concerned about the land lord's apartment.
Only larger stores where I live in Germany (and not even all of them) accept cards. Most places in all the surrounding villages (even the bigger ones) still accept Euro or the German bank card with the chip in it.
You don't have to speak German to comment on the differences in being in Germany and the US. It sounds like you're using that standpoint to brag. I am still learning the language, but that doesn't mean that I'm completely oblivious to the obvious differences in American life and German life.
While, yes, credit cards are commonly accepted, it is not usual to have a credit card.
It is very difficult to get a credit card from most credit institutes or banks. Of course you could get one from the likes of Amazon or something, but I went through real trouble when I went to America and asked for a temporary credit card.
I was 18 back then, but despite that, I had problems, because I had no steady income, since I was only a student.
Seeing as fixed-term income is getting more and more wide-spread in Germany, it's also very hard for someone working to get a credit card.
Often fixed-term contracts are not considered "stable income" because you have no garantuee of income past that contract.
So I guess OP's point wasn't that you cannot pay with credit card in Germany (which in some places still holds true), but that it is really hard to aquire a credit card.
And also, you are completely right about FKK.
It was widespread in east Germany, but nowadays it's getting rarer and rarer and is most of the time only popular with people who grew up in those times.
In Bavaria it's basically nonexistent.
However, even if OP doesn't speak german he/she of course is qualified to draw a comparison.
I can say that diligence is once of the most important virtues in most Asian countries, even though I don't speak any Asian languages. That's just a neutral observation and has nothing to do with my ability to speak another language.
However, this is not a comparison.
This post only contains observations, this is not a comparison of whether one or another "lifestyle" is better.
Germany is not the same every where, the northern people are different from the southern and the western people are different from the eastern people. In the old federal states (former West-Germany) FKK is not usual, but rather rare. In other area like Saxony, where she was it is still common thing. Germans will avoid taking unnecessary loans and credits from banks and included are credit cards. Many people in Germany will rather wait until they have saved enough money to pay for they want instead of using credit cards or taking on loans.
I think it's disappointing that someone who (by their own) admission speaks English feels qualified to criticise a post they clearly didn't understand. Each point addresses a stereotype but presents it in a positive light – and sheds light on the fallacy of their sometimes negative interpretations. May I point out that this isn't Forbes magazine and that light-hearted articles (that paint Germans positively) are welcome here. May I also point out that nobody other than Americans living/who have lived in Germany would have understood this article. Except you…
Well said. As an American living in Vienna I'm getting more and more "eye-rolly" at people who move to a new country, live for a year, then make sweeping generalizations as absolutes.
Sorry, Geisterfahrerin. Not sure where you live in Germany (Bavaria?), but you must have never been to a German beach at the Ost- or Nordsee. FKK everywhere. And you must be shopping exclusively at (the now pleite) Karstadt, KaDeWe or similar, where credit cards are no problem. But try to flash your Visa or Mastercard at a your local butcher shop or bakery and all you'll get is blank stares. Vanessa's observations are spot on and very entertaining. Nothing to do with stereotypes.
I'm American and have been living in Germany (Köln, Fulda, Limburg, Frankfurt Main, Hanau, Erlensee, Wiesbaden, Berlin) since 1989, also speak the language. I don't know where you've been in Germany but I say she's on point. Nudity in general is a common part of German life. And you sure cannot live on a credit card the way you can in the states. All of these points vary from city to city but generally she is correct as it does reflect the majority. And concerning this "superficial one-sided articles just perpetuate inaccurate and unhelpful stereotypes" all I can say is that one thing she forgot to mention is the often over the top and over critical american way of judging others. All in all I think the article is well written and fits the title well.
We live in Germany now, credit cards are unheard of up north. If you have one it is linked to your bank account and has an annual fee just to have MasterCard/Visa on it. Maybe you were in a big city or mall, but the general majority of the population does not use credit cards. It's genius really, you learn to live within your means rather than the buy now pay later attitude American's have from instant credit they feel entitled to. I love this about Germany!
I live in the US, but I grew up in Switzerland; and I still visit every year. Trust me, not everyone is hung up on credit cards. A lot of people prefer to pay cash.
When I lived there I remember applied for a credit card, but in order to get it, I had to show 6 months of my bank account history to be eligible to get the card. When I moved to the US, initially as a student, 3 weeks later I had a letter from a credit card company saying I was eligible to get $3,000 credit; and I am not talking about one of those spam letters, it was a legit one because I called them up to inquire and they were ready to just throw 3 grands at me.
So funny G! I didn't read your comment until just now-we BOTH said the same thing! I'm glad some of us know what is and is not up in Deutschland!
So she's unqualified to talk about her life and experience? You're being ridiculous. This is not about stereotypes, but about how the author adjusted to a different culture and what they got from it upon reflection. If you do not like it use those credit cards of yours to buy some tissues for your issues.
I am German and outside of very touristy areas I find it hard to use credit cards. The Wall Street Journal even had an article about that last year. While this is not a perfect description of Germans, stereotypes usually come about from some reality. This whole article was quite amusing. My American children think it's pretty accurate. Perhaps you should lighten up and see the fun in this.
I agree. I live in Vienna from US…. Close enough…. And some things in article are true. But this person was brainwashed by the Germans somehow. How is being unfriendly a good thing? And having banks and stores that open 9-3 and not on Saturday good? Annoying as all hell.
I am German and I enjoyed the article and think that it is so true what she said. I am also from Leipzig and in case you haven't seen the buses in front of the town hall in the summer, you have missed something ☺
I am very disappointed that someone who (by her own admission) is not even German feels qualified to comment on this article at all.
People like you make me angry. I am German and I think this article is hilarious. Why can he not talk about his experiences? I don't think you know anything about Germany if you think you know more than him.
I am French and I truly like Germany because of many different reasons. However, I was very disappointed by the fact that I could almost never pay by credit card (exept for supermarkets like Rewe or some restaurants). This may look like a detail but it is incredibly inconvenient and embarrassing, especially when you have to pay right now and you are out of cash. ATM are your best friends there.
as a German (living in English speaking countries for the past 10 years) I strongly disagree with your condescending comment. The author has pointed out some real and amusing differences between the US and Germany. The nudity is definitely a problem when moving between those two countries.
My, you're critical.
Take it easy Mrs. "Geisterfahrerin". Your response is so typical American. Relax and accept the statements. I got a good chuckle out of many things. She merely stated her perception of the differences. No need to take her to court about it.
Thanks to the person who posted this. Thought it was quite funny and appropriate. A old saying came to mind as I read it: Germans work to live and Americans live to work. Think about it.
Well, I bought a smart TV for euro 2500 and they didn't accept the credit card for that amount. Forget using the debit cards, 99% of the people use cash to pay in Germany.
She said so many good things about Germany… yet this was what you focused on..
The reason why Germans have credit cards, is for traveling around or buying stuff via internet. Most Germans don't use it on a daily bases. I've lived in bigger cities. You couldn't pay at the cinema with a credit card or even a debitcard, the same with McDonalds e.g. FKK beaches are usually found at every lake you have to pay and everywhere at the baltic sea! This one is definetly one of the better ones about Germany on the page!
oh come on, she said FKK is part of the eastern german culture. i'm german and completely agree with her. just because you lived in another region of Germany for a while doesn't mean you know everything either.
Now guess, what fun we are having, comming to the US.
This is pretty much what you think after having lived in Germany for a bit … it takes another couple of years to get totally sick of exactly the same points you listed up there
Many of these are common in USA as well. I suspect the author had limited view of Boston. 1. Idle chit chat. There is a time and place for honesty and talking. In USA before the age of television the country was split in conversation styles depending on access to water. People from conservative water areas were laconic whereas people from copious water areas were loquacious or banal. Say "Ciao" instead of "How are you?" if you do not want to have amateur therapy session. 2. Discretion versus honesty. There is a time and place for both. Flirting is different for men and women. Depends who is the wooer and who is the object of affection. Is she chasing him or vice versa? 3. I believe she never stayed at a youth hostel or went hiking in the White Mountains of New England where you need to be quick change artist on the trail as weather changes rapidly, take layers off avoiding perspiration, add layers on when clearing tree line. 4. Has she ever seen New Englanders during a blizzard? Driving on dangerous roads, bicycle commuting where cars swerve to hit you, crossing busy streets? 5. We have this feature in car insurance for coverage when your passengers are injured or you hit another car. 6. She has obviously led a very sheltered life if she does not remember Blue Laws where you could not have your store open certain hours, could not sell alcohol on weekends. closed on Sundays, limited hours on Saturdays, and limited bank hours. Does she work in retail and thinking of Black Friday sale? 7. Jaywalking is location and time specific. Jaywalking during business commuter hours in downtown is safe but will get you killed off those hours. MIT and Harvard University jaywalking is respecting our future job creators whereas Boston University students are hit frequently when they jaywalk. Has she ever taken MBTA? Passengers get judgmental stares when they try to board the bus without paying. Previously we had problem with train fare jumpers so we replaced the gates to prevent fare jumpers. 8. This statement is outdated as Americans have gone through the credit crisis of over borrowing and now we have many budgeting tools in place such as debt counselors, cash only budgets, and limitations on credit usage. 9. She sounds acerbic and caustic. If she were pleasant in Boston she would find people more receptive to help her. Catch more flies with honey than salt and vinegar.
I have been living in Baden-Württemberg for 7 years and regardless of what the Germans say about the above article, they are all true!
A few years back, they started introducing superfluous safety precautions here as well ("here" being Berlin) which we used to roll our eyes at in, say, England. "Mind the gap"… "mind your head"… how about don't be a fool and look where you're going (and if you're blind then signs won't help you anyway)?
Jaywalking is very common in my experience actually but even in Berlin I think many people tend to check whether little kids are around. Basically, the accepted approach here is: If you can be sure you're not endangering anyone, go for it. And if the streets are completely empty then… why should I not cross?
the "mind the gap" precautionary announcements are not done at every station. If one bothered to look, perhaps stops like schlesisches tor really do have a wider gap between platform and train
5) Well it is for you as well as the other. You're talking about the Haftpflichtversicherung, which means you insure yourself for damages caused by you on other people's stuff. If you don't have that insurance, you pay the damage out of your own pocket and that could drive you into bankruptcy without covering the other person's expenses.
You don't want to pay thousands of Euros in damages, just because your washing machine broke and flooded the apartment below yours.
This article is absolute crap. I am german and have lived in the US for 10 years so I am very familiar with both ways of life. These points made are very dramatic and untrue in most cases.
Wibke Rivera didn't entirely understand this article I think. I'm a german and I can say this article is mostly telling the truth. 😉
I was born in Hamburg, moved to the States almost 10 years ago and I'm currently seeing a therapist who's treating me for German Angst. It's real and it can become mildly debilitating once you are alone with this attitude and surrounded by positive thinking sharks with bleached white teeth on the West Coast.
I only lived in Germany for four months. I found them friendly but reserved. They aren't overly friendly in the fake way that many Americans almost are but they always seemed to be efficient and thoughtful so long as it seemed within bounds. They are a lot more reserved in some ways (quieter on trains, for example and not so chatty especially with strangers) but no so in others (the nudity thing, for example). As a singer I found the frankness a refreshing change of pace from Americans who will gush on with compliments and then never return your phone calls. They don't make false promises or say things just to say them. It takes some getting used to.
Articles like this make me glad I don't live in Germany. Broad sweeping generalizations YAWN.. thanks I will stay right here. About the only thing that would be nice to see an end to in this country is "Expectation of safety above all"
Like all nations, there are good and bad. Foreigners have often criticized American friendliness and "chit chat" habits. But personally, I think that is a great thing. I actually like a friendly society in the midst of the hustle and bustle. Regarding rules of when and what time your business can remain open: Frankly, I like to have a country (like the US) that you can chose when to have your business open. I want a nation that you can choose to work those extra hours and push yourself to be more efficient, if you chose. I don't want the government deciding those things. I have a feeling that is more a remnant of Bizmarkian/Socialist mentality of all workers working the same time, and no business having any more leeway over another.
I was traveling with a German gal in the Sinai. I saw a guy sitting on the beach with an ALICE pack (an Army backpack). I began talking to him and found out that was part of the peacekeeping troops. We had a good chat and went our separate ways.
The German gal was amaz'd that I would walk up to an utter stranger and begin talking like that. Maybe it stems from our pioneer days when one might not see another English speaking bod for days or months at a time … and wouldn't throw away a chance to hear sum news.
She left out the complete disregard for personal space, especially when standing in line at shops. I don't know how many times my ankles were rammed from behind by the grocery cart of an overzealous German who didn't want anyone to think they could cut in line.
I think this depends on your perspective. As a German I rarely feel that my personal space is beeing invaded. My Germans personal space is just smaller?
Lebensraum?!? 😉
Nah, we're simply not as easily offended. How big is it, your personal space? 1 squaremeter? More? Maybe you should carry a warning sign next time.
I'm picturing a little device one could carry – you set it for your 'zone of comfort' and if someone makes an unwanted incursion, flashing lights go on, and a mechanical voice starts shouting "Back off…back off….back off."
For the red lights and traffic at least, Germany sounds like the Pacific Northwest. People are traffic friendly almost to a fault over here. It nice 🙂
"Only an idiot would fail to realize that a steep cliff is dangerous," – Only an idiot would think there is some glut of lawsuits related to things like this.
" He stood up, casually wiped the trickle of blood from his forehead, and resumed his position on the platform without so much as grimacing.I love this attitude.". Yeah, people – esp elderly – should just blow off head injuries. After all, folks get them all the time on Tee Vee. No biggie.
"It was an incredible event that would have never been allowed to happen in the US" – yes, we don't have such things here. From the circus fun house, to the raves. Yep.
""It's to protect other people, in case you damage their property in some way." The USA doesn't have renter's insurance. Yep. Nobody buys insurance here on autos or homes to pay for other's injuries – despite the huge glut of lawsuits mentioned above.
"Credit cards are also virtually nonexistent in Germany." – yes of course they are, see above where one can't bank after hours, no ATMs.
Then again, one doesn't expect much from someone who can't figure out they are riding on a flat tire. I hate platitudes and superficial articles like this…
Most people I know own a debit card, we use online banking and ATMs all the time, but few people I know own a *credit* card.
If there aren't lawsuits, why the signs? Circus != riding around and making other people fall of their chairs. Do you jump in the ring with the lions? The renters insurance thing was about protecting other people – most people here do it to protect their own stuff. Seriously, you didn't even *try* to understand what was being said, did you? Your whole post is a strawman.
Actually you are the one being superficial and writing platitudes. Talking about projection. The author is actually admirably spot on!
4. Are you surprised by our litigious society here in the 'ol US of A? Lawyers will be our downfall…
I am a German living in Canada and I agree with most of what she experienced. Not sure why so many people here don't like what she wrote, especially the Germans around here. I find most of her findings quite flattering (maybe not the compliment thing, because I know we can do better)…
#7 happened to me over there. Crossing the street in Berlin is completely different than in the States. Everyone waits patiently, even if there are no cars.
You have been in another Berlin as where I live. BTW these days only a fraction of people in Berlin are actually Germans.
For the most part, ok
#4 is only true because you cannot sue like you can in the USA. You will get nothing.
#5 is the same as personal liability insurance in the States. It's just more affordable in Germany.
#6 is true but contrary to the myth of German efficiency, nothing ever gets finished there.
#8 is NOT TRUE. or maybe in Leipzig.
The rest is spot on!
Yet we kicked their asses in WW2. So there's that going for us.
Well, you gotta have SOMETHING I guess.
Woah, are you from Russia? If yes, kudos! But if you're from the US (like me), we didn't do hardly jack. It'd be like an alternate on a team coming in in the last 5 minutes and claiming they won the game.
Gosh, you can't be that stupid. Ever hear of the Normandy Invasion….Battle of the Bulge? One of the nuttiest comments ever!!! My hats off to the Russians too, but you are a loon.
it would be a hitler and stalin world without the US. How long do you REALLY think the UK could have maintained without the US? Churchill's plan all along was to hang on until the US entered the war. Morons.
I'm so sorry our edumacation system in Duhmerica has failed you, you seem to know so much that just isn't so.
You Americans did almost nothing, the Brits and especially the Russians did. You only arrived when everything was already over and took all the praise.
BTW kinda sad to read such an ignorant comment under such a delightful article.
I thinks Hans has his hands around his Wurst too long! What a total Bozo! Look it up Hans.
seig heil. We didn't want to fight your war, but we won it for you, loser.
Waiting for the article, 9 stupid habits I lost when I moved to America.
If the first one is true, then how come Germans never look at me funny when I ask them "Wie Gehts?" (How are you?) perhaps it's just a regional thing.
I think the difference is that an American might ask "how are you" when passing you, just to say "hi", whereas Germans tend to ask "wie geht*s dir" to actually start a conversation with a person they already know.
hahaha, how bad is that article? feels like she was in a very bad mood writing this…
Disagree with 1, totally with 2, TOTALLY with 3 how weird is that?, with 4, wrong info on 5, with 7 => which she is all proving with number 9
BUT i agree with number 6 and love nr 8
Just to mention, yes: we do here some sort of Freikörperkultur, FKK – not everyone btv. But we don't give a shit if someones prefers wearing a bathsuit. ,-)
Thanks for the entertaining article. The points are a bit exaggerated in some parts but overall "hit the nail on the top"… Made us love and agree to the most parts. Best Wishes from Munich
We could learn a lot from Germans about how to start world wars.
It was almost inevitable some idiot would come up with this old shoe.
WW1 was started because of the murder of the crown prince of Austria in Serbia, which happened because some people wanted a train connection to Turkey. Austria went into war and Germany saw a chance to win and joined.
WW2 was only possible because of the unsatisfaction of the people after the war, people had no money no food and needed someone who told them how to move on unfortunately it was the wrong person. And Hitler was Austrian not German.
Nobody is proud about the wars but if you want to make jokes you have to know what you are talking about.
Huh? Hitler raised the Nazi Army in Germany, not Austria. What does it matter where he was from? Sheesh….
Most of these are not specific to Germamy, more the opposite is specific to America.
As a German I enjoyed that read a lot, even if life in East Germany has a bit of a different vibe than life in my Bavarian hometown, equally nice, but a bit different. I could related to all your points fully or to quite some degree. For example I only got myself a credit card since I started living abroad and still don't feel good about it at all cause it makes me feel I am losing track of my expenses more easily. Whenever I visit back to Germany, I happily go to an ATM to get cash with my "EC-Karte" hahaha… Also only when traveling abroad (I've been to Asia, North and South America) I realized that not for all people a naked human body is a normal thing 😉
So thanks for sharing your experience and glad you're enjoying your stay!
To all the people going all "No way, that is not true! I was in Germany too and I experienced it completely differently!" Guess what, Germany is not a homogenous block and depending on where you stay, under which circumstances you stay (expat, tourist, visiting family) and with which people you surround yourself with, you naturally might have a completely different experience! Do you think an expat somewhere in rural Texas would carry home the same USA experience like someone who happened to stay some time in say San Francisco or LA?
Also depending on where you are coming from and what previous experiences shaped your character you might experience the very same situation differently than the next person. Just cause this doesn't cover what you personally experienced it doesn't make your neither her experience wrong.
So calm your horses everyone!
As an American studying over here, my experience has differed just slightly: 1) True, but their version of chit-chat is politics 2) Dunno about that "compliment" but they are quite blunt 3) Yea, nude beaches are surprisingly common in Europe 4) Everything is built safe to a triple-redundancy; for example, the handrails at train stations have grounding wires in case they become electrified 5) Yep. Probably something leftover from the bad years 6) True, oh so true 7) Also very true, even at 3am 8) Yep, and most Germans prefer cash over cards that do work 9) Quite true, the Germans are polite almost to a fault.
#7 About 0200 (2 am) my date (another American) and I were walking out of the Grünefest (in Berlin) in February … meaning it was cold at that time of the morning. There was a groop of folks standing on the corner waiting for the little green man-light to signal them that they could cross. There wasn't a car in sight! NOTHING. It was 2 am and still.
We stood there a sec, lookt about, and began walking across. The Germans began shouting at us. My date askt what they were saying. I told they were shouting out the amount of the fine for not waiting … as if there was a cop in sight.
That's strange as especially in Berlin usually no one cares
I'm a German-American. So even though I am an American by citizenship, I'm *still* German and proud to be so.
Every time you ride in or drive a car, ride a bicycle, download an MP3, or listen to a record, YOU THANK GOD THERE'S A GERMANY!
and every time i hear a funny joke in germany, i thank god for america and the uk.
America..not so much, the UK though!
chris morris, charlie brooker, julia davis, ricky gervais and the like have all put out amazing stuff.
firsthand experience with Germans not crossing against the light was
first in Magdeburg in the former DDR, in 1991. It being just a little over a
year after The Wall came down, when I saw a little old lady waiting for
the Little Green Man to light up allowing her the right of way to cross,
I assumed it was a hold-over from the Communist regime as there was NO
traffic anywhere to be seen. But then I saw the very same thing in
Berlin in the former West Berlin… I then knew it was just the German
These days though no one in Berlin cares for the red lights…except the tourists or if there are kids waiting with you.
the closing times drive me crazy, especially the rush on saturdays. so does the 18 bucks stolen every month for shitty television
I hope you don't call die öffentlich Rechtlichen shitty television cause that's by far the best television we get. 18 € a month still is too expensive though.
best of the worst is still terrible. how can you defend the schlager shows?
In Austria we pay ~25€ for television and radio. And this would be only for 2 channels. (The others are free, but you have no choice you just can't say you don't want the two) now that sucks.
I loved Germany. Some will say that they're rude but I beg to differ. Maybe the ones right outside of Ramstein Air Base but it's most likely because they're tired of putting up with obnoxious ignorant Americans. I love the culture and the food!!! I tried learning German but my pronounciations were horrible. Even so, people did their best to understand me. I loved that you could sit next to random people somewhere and they would befriend you rather than look at you like you're crazy. Germans are brutally honest and I loved that. If they had a problem with you, they would tell you rather than talk about you behind your back. And don't get me started on Christmas markets and Gluhwien!!!!
Enjoying quality time I believe is important for Germans. Mittags Pause, Wednesdays being half a day of work. Taking long walks through parks on Sunday (Spazierengehen) with pets and family.
There are exceptions to every generalization, but in the main she's 9 for 9. After being exposed to German playgrounds, my kids found the American ones boring: too safe to be interesting. I was always surprised there was not more muggings and purse snatching in Germany. The average person carries much more cash than in the U.S.
This article is either mostly b.s., or the author only knew a bunch of assclowns in the United States. Both probably.
WTF! Everybody talks depending how much they enjoy the Roller Coster. You can not just say: The germans are. Only the people you know is like that. I have a completely other experience and i am desagree with your comments.
It is like: all the american women are sluts and the guys are fat und crazy about the guns and drugs.
Would you like to share your experiences then?!
Good read!
I like "7. Rule breaking" 🙂
Number 1: You just dont get it do you? It really annoying when somebody asks you how are you, as if they really want to know, but actually not expecting an answer, so it's like: "hey i'm a fucking douche who likes to be seen as a nice person but actually dont give a fuck but here take this pseudo-compliment so that i seem allright". i want to shoot everybody who says "how are you" just as a greeting. it's the most bullshit thing ever imho.
Wow, angry much? This is something that's been engrained into American culture as a way to say "hello". I won't argue that it is the best way to greet someone, or even a good way to do so, but it's often times how we address each other in a friendly manner.
You're correct insofar as it is annoying. But try not to condemn those who have been brought up to think that this is an appropriate greeting. Rather than jump on the "this is bullshit" bandwagon, how about we work at helping people understand that it is disingenuous, and just go back to saying "hello".
You are White right? Otherwise this article would be completely different
SMH at the fact that she didn't know she had to call her bank and tell them she would be using her card in a different country…
I am an American… and for the most part I don't have these habits. You are correct that these attitudes are unnecessary at best. And, I think that is more the point. Quite a lot of Europe has understood the way we do things in 'Merica are self-destructive and unhealthy.
I do love the comments on this article though. I especially love the Americans that are seemingly offended because they use credit cards and you point out how of poor judgement this is.
Cool story brah
10. lack of judgemental arrogance
Just sounds like the German's didn't like you. I've worked for a German company and have many German friends and they are very warm and kind people.
We Americans are still toting around a lot of Puritanism. It's there under the surface of our smiles.
No, we have lots of pervs there too.
It amused me that some commenters took the author to task for not being properly "trained" first before offering a piece from the POV of a recent American expat to Germany. Lol, I suppose she should have spent 5 or 10 years there before being qualified to write that?
Mostly on point except #8. Germans use credit all the time. The difference is you don't use "credit cards" as much. They also don't use cheques since you get what is basically a debit card with every account so you usually pay with it. If you need credit you apply through the stores crediting bank usually. The whole rule breaking thing isn't as bad as it used to be.. What strikes me the most about this whole thing is its basically been copy/pasted from other articles on the subject. I've read several top 10 things about germans which are nearly identical to this one.
As an American that lived and worked in Sweden it was much the same. It took me a while to adjust to the "sternness" of the Swedish way of life. Markets were open only certain hours but the one common factor was alcohol. Once you got some beers into Swedish co-workers they were completely different people.
As for credit cards they weren't accepted everywhere but this was in 2002 so who knows today. My guess is they probably are. But the work life in Sweden was much different than the US. Sweden basically shuts down the month of July and people head out of the cities to the country on on Holiday. That part I loved.
I think a lot of this is probably genetic, haha – I'm American, have never been to Germany (yet), but my father was born in Mannheim (grandfather was a GI), and my father has often remarked on how similar I am to his (fully German) grandmother. I can recognize several of these traits in myself – I'm very blunt, I hate small talk, I can't understand the idiots who don't realize things like "coffee is hot" or "falling is bad," and I am a major rule follower. I went to a college where "don't walk on the grass" was a very big rule, and even now, years later, I feel guilty if I walk on the grass at all!
Fear of Nudity: "This can sometimes be difficult for Americans to buy"
yeah, if you're a woman. Men are shirtless all over the place but a
woman shows cleavage she "can't be taken seriously". For as liberal as
the USA Pretends to be, we're anything but! I have many friends (male
and female) from various parts of Europe. None of them can get over the
gender double standards in this part of the world…
Pretty good insight! I didn't expect this at all. "Bimbotown" is a pretty unfortunate naming for a party in Germany as "Bimbo" in German is an (pretty outdated) racial slur for black people. Ouch!
Please, go. My friends need you. Bring little but expect much!
have you really been trying to understand anything about us germans..how long have you been there???
a german who knows about the phrase" hey, hello how are you doing" would just answer the same back and not start to tell nearly the whole life story. but not every one was already in the states and understand that.
We Germans love small talk. But our small talks are often more filled with important topics then just the wheather or the new fashion….we love to talk about god and the world, politics, the family, friends…we dont like it that coldwarm like i often had it in the states.
many of my german friends dont like nudity, the dont go into the sauna. and many of my american friends love it…this has nothing to with cultur or being german or american.
i am an owner of 4 credit cards (Master, 2 visa, american express) and I am German. you might not be able to pay at aldi or lidl with but i pay ALWAYS with my debit card!! I take not much money with me.
Unlike Americans, Germans are often more concerned with protecting others than they are with shielding themselves from the mistakes of other people.????
– Just one example. One of my friends also thought like you. One of his kids opened the door on a parking place very fast and hit the door of a porsche. The result was a bill of 3200 Euros. ..can you pay the bill cash directly? no. Just in case sth happen like this we have insurance for that which cost not more then 80 Euro THE YEAR! and the insurance can cover 10.000.000 euros…
I've lived in Weisabden ten years now you hit all ten of these dead-on great job.
this article was written by an amateur.
I was in Germany and learned a few things that would freak us out. It is illeagal to have a gun at home and there is a law requiring all Germans to tithe to their churches a certain amount of income. BOTH unconstitutional in the US
But you are allowed to drink in public and it is not illigal to have a gun. You just need a licence and that only means they do not sell guns to everyone who has money.. I think that's the safer way. But that's the thing about diffrent cultures.
I was told that if you have a gun, it must be at a gun club and the gun has to be left at the club. Also to hunt you must have a government guide. I own dozens of guns because I shoot competitively. I don't think there is anything wrong with what they do. It's a different culture with different history and customs.
Er, there is a law allowing the Churches to tithe their own members, plus helping them to collect that tax. Besides, the "tithe" is, if you take into account that the thing is tax-deductible, never higher than 2,5% of the income, and much smaller for those not wealthy people.
I would have loved to have the author delve into the "why" of the difference in cultures. Based on this article, I doubt she knows the American heritage of Puritanism. It explains most of the issues. And you can't really call an underlying cultural uncomfortableness with nudity "a habit".
Germans follow the rules? I guess graffiti is legal than ja? And drinking beer on the subway. Yup, totally following the rules. 🙂
Drinking beer on the subway is, as far as I know, legal in trains subject to the Deutsche Bahn. It has, for some years, been banned in Munich in trains *not* subject to the Deutsche Bahn. But then, contrary to some rumour, just following whatever the state says, despite there being nothing inherently wrong with it and despite it used to be allowed in the old times, is not a particularly Bavarian thing.
Graffiti is, somewhat similarly, only a criminal offense for a couple of years (since 2005), as "property damage". Before a change of law, it used to be much more sensibly subgrouped under – wait for it – "utter nonsense" (grober Unfug), which is not a crime but a(n actual – this is no joke) Ordnungswidrigkeit or infraction – i. e., as you can guess, something that can be done without dishonor.
There are signs on every single subway car that say effectively say "No Eating, No Drinking, No Smoking". Trains (as in the things that go long distances say between Berlin and Köln of don't have those signs. The rules are posted. Germans aren't following them. Whether it's legal or not is immaterial. It's legal to shout and play loud music in a library but it's "against the rules".
Also I've seen plenty of people crossing against the light all over Berlin and Koln and Dusseldorf. Maybe not to the same level as NYC but more than LA.
"Whenever anyone passed me in the hallway, I would grin maniacally, wave, and yelp, "Hi! How's your day going?""
. . .
"Eventually sensing my discomfort, Roger paused and gave me a blank look.
"Well you asked," he muttered, rolling his eyes before continuing down
the hall to his office."
I don't know–I could be biased because I lived in Europe for two years and my family has almost completely stuck to Swiss/German behavioral values over the generations that we've been in the U.S.–but I am American and you kind of sound like someone I'd not be able to build a meaningful friendship or any kind of camaraderie with, if this is how you behave. Asking someone how they are doing or how their day has been and then being uninterested in their response is extremely superficial and fake. Just don't even ask. Just say hi and go back to your cubicle. Small talk is called small talk because some words are exchanged and both parties share information. It sounds like what you would prefer is just an exchanged greeting.
I work at a bank in the U.S. in an area of my city where people are educated and pretty well off. Yet, most customers I deal with have no idea about the hurdles of litigation a business in this country must jump(A lot of these people are business owners, scary). They think you should do everything for me because I'm the customer and I have my money here. The bank knows the law and the bank knows the way the law interprets who is liable in this business partnership. A common example of this is the law interprets the responsibility and liability to fall on the property owner. A bank account – the money in it is your property you are the owner and a transaction slip (a legally binding document) is to be filled out by the customer but we have many people who will throw temper-tantrum's that remind me of my eight year old nephew just because they are unaware and do not understand. When I try to explain or teach these people of what they are simply unaware of, they don't even try to work with me or listen. They simply are to lazy and/or get off on a feeling of power(you work for me attitude). This creates another problem with the speed and flow of traffic when I have to fill your slips out because you simply refuse, you make other folks behind you wait longer. This makes for a less efficient human process and more complaints from customers just because they simply are unaware and do not understand the rules of the game their playing. I've already been typing for awhile so I won't even get into how most people should be fired as the C.E.O. of their own finances. If you are unaware like many americans that we sue each other more than any other people on earth then you might not always be a satisfied customer.
boo-hiss, boo-hiss, boo-hiss. if you don't really speak german how can you really speak with any measure of competence about german culture? I mean if someone came to america and lived without learning the language, would you consider that person more of an expert voice on the culture than someone who came to america and lived and became fluent in english? language is (a huge part of) culture and so many cultural artifacts are encoded by language. so i'd MUCH rather read an article by someone who had not only lived in another country and learned the language instead of someone who remained on the sidelines and made no effort to learn the language. it's a big glaring gap of ignorance.
Wow…a culture that actually treats work expectations as secondary to living a happy, healthy, and fulfilling life. Definitely not American culture.
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. The author is obviously very young, very naive and simply searching for likes. One of the German traits that is terribly annoying is, while being unfriendly an not open as a people, they insist on being greeted, especially in the morning. The FKK culture is not even big. Make this article go away
wow.. don't having a credit card doesn't mean you have to pay everything by cash (meaning paper money and coins) a lot of people are using debit cards (so called EC (Electronic Cash) Cards) to pay.
the thing about credit cards in germany is, that the fees are very high in germany. and people with a low income would nt even get one by their banks. Instead we are using ATM cards
Plus, as you know, we germans do not like to make debt just to buy stuff, like a lot of Americans do. 🙂
Germans do have credit cards (if the bank says they deserve them). But they'll use them pretty much like "debit cards that can be used for Amazon and when abroad where nobody knows what 'Sparkasse' means". Paying back monthly is default which you needn't even take care of, and some stores demand a surcharge if you pay by credit card.
Lived in Germany over 24 years, and most of this is pretty spot on, although, a lot of people I work with enjoy talking about their day =D. Rest is spot on though.
I don't know:
Credit Cards are accepted nearly everywere. You can not use it at discount stores, but "normal price" stores like REWE accept CCs all the time. And if your credibility is fine it is no problem to pay the Credit Card back step by step. But I agree, this is not very common. Most Germans have so called Debit Cards that reduce the money on your bank account after a few days or pay the CC back at 100 per cent at the end of the month.
And crossing a red light as a pedestrian – as long as you look out for policemen staring at you, who might feel like you disrespect them if you cross the red light anyway – is totally socially accepted! As long as no one else is hindered and there are no children anywere nearby. No, you won't get the stare of older women on a lonely sidewalk if you ignore the red lights. It is however unadvisable to try this while driving a car. You'll lose your licence over this if the red light was there for more than a second, and rightfully so.
I like the lack of lawsuits and the easy work hours, but the rest sound pretty awful. Germany sounds like a bunch of unfriendly, humorless nudists who pay in cash.
As a German living in Germany (albeit, in the west), I'd like to comment as follows:
1. Idle chit-chat
I make the mistake myself of taking "how are you?" from an American seriously, and answering in detail. With friends, however, the question is meant seriously, and you do tell them how you are. Which is quite nice, I think, you can get things off your chest.
2. Thin skin
"Your big nose looks good on you face" is pretty rude. Did someone really say that to you? Wow.
3. Fear of nudity
FKK is more of an East German thing, to my knowledge it was one of the few freedoms they had. It was never that big or that visible in West Germany, and has been on the decline in recent years. I used to go to a lake when I was younger, and people would either jump into the lake naked or in their bathing suits, but didn't walk around without clothes. But then it was not official FKK.
4. Expectation of safety above all
You probably heard people laughing about that woman who got money out of McDonald's for spilling her hot coffee into her lap. It's a famous story. If people expect everything to be safe even if they walk around with their heads in the clouds, accidents are likely to happen. If Americans expect safety above all, how come they don't have gun control, and universal health care?
5. Assumption of others' guilt
Of course I have a Haftpflichtversicherung (= third party liability insurance), it's not that expensive, and it's good to have. If you hurt somebody while driving, or your kids or dog or cat cause some damage, you do not fight with the people, they do not sue you, but you report the damage to your insurance – est voilà!
Lots of people try to cheat the insurance with their Haftpflichtversicherung. I myself was approached to "break something" that was already broken at a friend's house, and we would have shared the money. I declined, not because I love insurance companies, but because I don't believe in driving up premiums, and generally, it's just not right.
6. Frenetic pace / work above all
I think it is terrible that people in the USA have to work, shop and hurry 24/7. Our Sundays might not be "holy days" in the sense of religion or going to church, but our Sundays are "holy" in the sense off: Finger weg von unserem Sonntag (keep your hands off our Sunday) . Most people have Sundays off, you can meet all your friends then, go to restaurants together or to sidewalk cafés, or to the lake for a nude swim. Everything is more quiet and relaxed; Sundays are wonderful. Spending more time at work does not get more things done, as you found out. Don't we all work in order to live, not vice versa?
7. Rule breaking
Yeah, you get used to not crossing the street until the light is green. At night, though, when there are no cars coming and no children around, I and others cross the street during the red light. And nobody will tell you anything about the children. I don't know if that's really different in Sachsen. May be, they sure had a different life from the west, were maybe more conditioned to fear authority.
8. Not true. You can use your credit cards just about everywhere, and many people do, though fewer than in the U.S. I prefer to pay cash, in spite of having my credit card with me at all times. It's faster, and I don't want to leave a trail of what I'm buying, and if it's just a liter of milk – nobody's business.
9. Most people mean well, and when somebody tells me my tire is flat, I thank him or her. But then I'm German 😀
I'm from Boston and moved to Germany for a bit. 🙂 I had a few different experiences, but interesting read anyways.
germans, do not turn your back on them?
Number 10 – No GMO's!!!
Spending money you don't have may exist in America but that's not American. It's an irresponsible American doing something stupid. I'm American, born and raised and I don't spend money I don't have even though I own two credit cards, I do it quite simply for the rewards.
And sometimes idle chit-chat can be a good thing, especially when someone legitimately does want an opening to discuss something. If you can't handle it than the German man was right, don't ask.
Same with thin skin, in fact, I doubt many people would accuse northeasternors of having thin skin, so this isn't even a good American stereotype.
Though I only spent two weeks traveling around Spain a few years ago, I detect a lot of the same attitudes, particularly about litigation. Wife and I were climbing a rock monument at the Gaudi Museum to see the three crosses erected at the top. Tower was about 15 to 20 feet high with a staircase built in, spiraling around the outside with only one handrail for "protection." Wife, who speaks ultra-fluent Spanish, asked a native about falling, getting hurt and lawsuits. He replied: "Well, just by looking at this, you should know there's an element of danger involved. As for lawsuits, that's something you Americans do." I felt sad and disappointed at the same time that that is how we are perceived overseas. It's called personal responsibility and it's an attribute we seem to have forgotten.
Thank you for a very well written article. I am an European who lives in the U.S. and I had forgotten some of the things you mention.
I'm curious, how does one move to Germany? I am an American, and I hear it is very difficult to move to Europe, especially if you're American? Is this true?
It is even more difficult to move to the US as an European. 🙂
Why do you say that? Mostly, what it takes, is to take the citizenship test and pass it. I took it government class. If you study, it's not that hard. But apparently it requires nine years residency to become a citizen in the European Union.
I don't know it that's true. But moving inside europe/eu (if you are form an eu country) is not that complicated.
she forgot being on time….
I know everything your talking about. Its just so funny to hear it from an intelligent and semi aloof American. I have been living there 6 months out of the year for the last 2 year's and i am heading back in a month to finish a master's in MSIS (information systems) near Stuttgart. Taking a German language class wouldn't hurt.. 😉 I know how hard it is to come up with the words you may need in an emergency when you're not quite fluent yet. One last thing… The word for debt (schuld) in German is the same word for guilt fyi. Ise the application LEO to help you translate if u need. Wenn schon denn schon!!! (When you go, go all the way)
I love this article. I felt like I was there with you and the differences in the cultures is what makes travel so interesting. Thanks for sharing.
What the author is describing are not "habits", but cultural norms. Some of what she's describing like jaywalking relates to Boston, not America as a whole. She also comes across as terribly naive or simply too young to know know what insurance is used for in the US. It not only protects you, but the damage you do to other people's property. That's the case with car insurance. She might know that living in Boston where she wouldn't be expected to own a car. Working in an environment where no one makes small talk or attempts to get to know their co-workers would be a joyless place to work. She does confirm my suspicions about Germans lacking social skills. I went on a 2 week Mediterranean cruise with a large German contingent. They made getting on and off elevators impossible. They would never step to the side as you entered or wait for you to get off it before entering.
She forgot to mention, she drinks more beer now than ever before.
Never been to Germany. No real desire to go – except for the first point. I hate when strangers ask me how I'm doing. As far as I'm concerned, that's between me and my physician – it's none of your damned business!
#7 is definitely true. I remember well the tsk tsks of Germans when I became impatient to cross.
The most telling thing about this is that you haven't learnt their language after several months (!) of living there. Only an American would do that.
Nice article that points out some differences pretty well, but some others are left out or exaggerated. Like: German companies do not usually invite you to a naked swimming or sauna (we're not Finland! Lived there. Know it!). But what's really true is that we Germans do not tend to have a lot of chit chat. Sometimes I'd love for there to be more of that cause to me it's at least better than awkward silence. Americans are doing much easier on that but tend to exaggerate in Germans' eyes like "Oh my god, I love this dress. You HAVE to tell me where you got it!". Most Germans would react rather irritated on such an approach and maybe even feel like it was ironic.
Lots of stereotypes. I guess that is typical American as well. See what I did there? People have a lot of bad behaviors. I really wish that people would keep to themselves and follow the rules but this is America. Rules are mostly suggestions and life is a facebook / twitter post opportunity. Germany is catching up. Think of 2015 Germany as 1950's US – minus the nudity – though, after spending several years in Germany, no one ever invited me to the office sauna. I'm not even sure we had an office sauna. I guess I never asked about the policy on asking co-workers of the opposite (or same, for that matter) sex if they wanted to hang out (pun intended) in the sauna. I feel kinda gypped. Anyway, I found your stereotypes amusing if not entirely accurate – course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion – Except in Germany, that is! Haha, see, I can do it too!
I think she means "Haftpflichtversicherung". But that's to protect yourself too (from claims for damage by others).
True and fun to read, too. And: Flirting is definitely non-German. As a single I am just going bananas in my home country. #iamarealist
As a German I don´t know anyone not owning a credit card. Smalltalk is sometimes difficult, depending what questions you ask. We rather talk about the weather or latest sports results. If you ask "How are you doing?" you can expect a long story. And jaywalking is sometimes a pain and dangerous in Cologne – too many people are doing it. But yes, you can have a good time here. Once you´re set and know the opening hours everything will be fine.
As a German I can say:
1. True 😉
2. Never said or heard stuff like that – absolutely ridiculous.
3. I absolutely hate FKK (Freikörperkultur).
4. Half true.
5. Hahahaha.
6. True.
7. Complete bull. If you're not jaywalking in Berlin, everyone will call you a tourist.
8. I never use anything else than my credit card. We're not using it as excessively as US-Americans, but it's becoming more common every year.
9. I was born and raised in Berlin, so I guess I can't tell 😉
All in all, I would say it's a nice list but only half true – at the most.
jaywalking is a berlin-only thing! 😉
I doubt that – at least I do it everywhere. In fact I heard that jaywalking in the US is a NYC & Boston only thing 😉
The author of this article clearly does not understand that our many safety precautions in America are part of the Americans with Disabilities act and are meant to protect those and aid those who would not be safe or able to access certain areas on their own. In many places in Europe, if you have a wheelchair you aren't going up to the second floor. Safety and courtesy is not a habit; it is a right for the people of America no matter what their mental and physical abilities.
common…. Wheelchairs like in Walmart? In almost every mall or shopping centre are elevators
Love this! My American husband spent all his teen years in Germany. This describes him very well!
where did my comment go?
"It was an incredible event that would have never been allowed to happen in the US because of all the safety violations — someone could hit their head, fall off a bed, get whacked in the eye." Yet the Americans allow everybody and anybody to carry a gun. It's a strange world…
well..this is more like…Europe, not necessary Germany….welcome to this side of the ocean
this is a pretty terrible display of germans. plus you don't even speak or learn the language? not that everything you wrote is wrong, but it just gives another naive view of an american at a foreign country. as seen many times before. regards a german.
"Especially in the former East, Freikörperkultur, or free body culture, is an important part of German identity." I happen to live in Germany and I can't really say it's true…. The FKK (short for Freikörperkultur) is only important in the East of germany and even there it's usually more common among the elderly. Besides…you can't really use the attitudes of Saxony as an example for germany as a whole! East germans aren't the same as the ppl from the Rhine River Valley in the West for example. Bavarians are also different than the ppl from Hamburg! Germany isnt as big as the USA by size, but each state has several regional cultures and attitudes.
Another privileged American… thinks the world revolves around her.
its so cute what u guys talk about germans 😀 so funny! i really appreciate!
Ich been liber dick
More than anything I find it necessary to point out that there is a HUGE cultural difference inbetween western and eastern germany.
The author spent her time in the east, in a rather pragmatically thinking, relaxed and welcoming, social part – the place of the fixer-uppers and diy-folk.
This is very different in the western part, which I, aware that I'm heavy generalising now, would describe as more capitalist, uptight.
Which shouldn't be alltoo surprising considering the history of divided Germany.
This article comes off as written by someone incredibly sheltered. Believe it or not, people fall down all the time in the US without crying and calling their lawyers. Also, you might be surprised to know that there are, in fact, countless hiking trails throughout the vast wilderness of the US that don't have the magical guard rails that were standard in whatever suburban playpark you grew up in. Also, how in the devil did you get a job in Germany without anyone telling you NOT to ask "How are you?"
wow. this article screams, with every single word, "attention please" and probably "please confirm your stereotypes with a thumbs up". no matter what it takes. I can see what you are trying to express, but the things you are claiming are 90% wrong. I just hope everyone understands the entertaining factor of this scam.
Don't give up the idle shit chat. I wish there were more people just waving at you with a smile and asking "how are you". It's polite. And nice. I like that. Don't give that up because some folks don't how to handle the simplest question.
German's are boring and unemotional people that have a hard time showing emotions and love! And if your into S&M that's their favorite and the men are uncircumcised men! No thanks!
What a bullshice and incorrect statement.
To poist 1 and 2: It is not a german problem or fault, if you choose the wrong office.
We at our office talk funny and crazy stuff and laugh about it throughout the whole working day…
And this article really is one-sided in the critical sentences. Saxony is NOT Frankfurt or Hamburg or Berlin oder Cologne or Munich. Those are the towns where life is busy and attractive. Most of Saxony is like the Midwest of the US. If you want to have a New York / SF / LA like experience in our country, you better move to the towns I mentioned, but NOT Saxony.
This is soooo German 🙂 Argueing about how words are written. I like the article and of course i know many things Germans appreciate when they are in the US, like "Everybody is soooo nice and there are colored lines on hospital floors so you can find your departement even if you are an idiot and you can shop in the night and…" By the way, that last encounter mentioned, with a German offering help with a flat tire: my mind is spinning around a love story that starts with this scene 🙂
Hahaha, funny article and mostly true. I am actually using my German outspokenness. In particular when I need English people to back off. German outspokenness almost hurts them physically 😉
Dear fellows, you should consider:
1. the east is different than the West
2. Berlin is not Germany, like NYC is not the U.S.!
Most habits of Germans that are described in the article may be true for the east and smaller towns and villages in the western part of gernmany, but not for Hamburg, Munich or especially Berlin. In General your giving stereotypes of what you experienced…so your "data" maybe not countable for all over Germany
the naked bath thing is very common in the east, it was one of the few things where people had their freedom…did you recognize that people born earlier than 89 mostly have english Names like: Kevin, Steven, Norman, Jenny, Mandy…same phenomena like bathing nude…typical eastern phenomena…nobody in Berlin waits at red, if theirs no children…! I don´t know anybody not haveing a credit card, and i´m born and raised in Germany…so this "German Attitude" does not exist, like blacks are not more criminal than whites, although 95 % of all prisoners in the U.S. are either black or latino, but this is because U.S. judicial System is discriminating and racial prejudiced…would you say that the American attitude is racist and discriminating???!!!
I hope not…
I don´t think that one could say this or that Nation has certain blablabla, you know who did that 70 years ago? A tiny brown haired man, with an ugly small moustache under his nose, always yelling while talking…he described jews the way you describe Germans…and what is the reason to do so? If you go to a small village in the middle of nowhere in the U.S. you´ll find almost similar habits (except for nude bathing) So this article is one of those that the world doesn´t need.
Your article is german as german can be! No worries…
Ihr deutscht alle ziemlich gut!
Ja ja, deutsche Sprache schwere Sprache, nur Grammatik und Kartoffeln
this article should be called
I've been living in Germany in Bavaria for 16 years. I found the article accurate in some respects and rather amusing. The rule breaking and assumption of guilt (I've witnessed a few criminal trials which made me want to vomit – but that is a whole topic in itself.) are right on the money. It's important to note that the author is reporting from East Germany, where I have never been, but according to my German friends is a lot different than in the West. We have East German friends and everyone teases them.
Rule breaking? When I am walking my dog and he poops, people stop to stare to make sure I clean it up. Someone even chewed me out when my dog pissed on a bush. What was I supposed to do? Get a wet rag and wipe off the leaves?
Drinking in the morning is really no problem. There are festivals all spring and summer with the drinking starting at 9:00. It's called "Frühschoppen" – early drink. The pub across the street opens every day at 9:00 am.
I've never been to a German sauna, but I did see them broadcast on television where fat ugly naked men and women were sitting next to each other with no sexual connotations or inhibitions whatsoever. As far as my own aversion to nudity? I lost that in the past year when I suffered a major illness. I lost so much weight, I no longer viewed myself as human and was just grateful for anyone who helped me.
The relaxed attitude at work? Just pray you don't get sent to a hospital on a holiday or weekend. It happened to me several times in the course of a major illness. I needed 2 pints of blood and it took 14 hours before I got it. The major hospitals are better, but this was a mid-sized one. And you don't get any brownee points like in the US for coming to work despite being ill. They'll more likely chew your ass out for infecting them all.
As far as idle chit-chat, it is very common here to be constantly interrupted. Nobody seems to listen to anyone else. And then I know these people we refer to as waterfalls. They jabber on non-stop and don't seem to care if anyone is listening or not.
One thing that wasn't directly mentioned is their desire to avoid any unpleasantness. When I had cancer, some of the women suggested I should get a nice-looking wig. When I was recovering and went to a restaurant with a friend, who had had a trachiatemy (spelling?) due to throat cancer, and two other friends, the waitress was extremely rude and kept giving the man killer looks. He couldn't help spitting sometimes through the hole. When I asked my other friends about that later, they told me that I would have acted the same way if I was in her place. I know damned well that I would not have. Apparently people with "repulsive" illnesses or conditions should stay home. this is, of course, not true of everyone. I primarily notice it among the "upper classes". There is a lot of snobbery here. But isn't there everywhere?
I don't claim to be an expert, but I speak fluent German, haven't lived anywhere else since 1998. I like it here. I think I got the best medical care I would have gotten anywhere in the world and yes, I do have state insurance.
I agree with some of the things that have been said below (I only skimmed through the other comments though). But you misunderstand some things.
1. There's nothing wrong with chit chatting in German. It's just that "how's it going?" and the like aren't used the way they are used in English in German. If instead you'd ask about, say, the weather, you'd have your casual conversation. You can't assume that the idiomatic ways of non-commiting communication (exchanging virtually meaningless phrases) translate from one language to another. In particular, your example "How's *your day* going?" would be fairly unusual in German, thereby prompting a very different reaction.
In general, though you're right, the casual friendliness and openness that Americans display towards strangers is not exactly common among Germans. You might say that we tend to be more serious about what we say, which will clearly require knowing someone better and thereby excludes exchanging these niceties with complete strangers in the way you might do.
2. Insurance is still "for you". If you cause someone else damage, you will have to pay for it. So although that kind of insurance will pay for the other person's damage, it is protecting you, because otherwise you would have to.
3. The FKK-thing is just nonsense. It's a tiny subculture (and my prejudices agree that it really is much more common in the region where you say you are) and especially the younger generations have virtually nothing to do with it.
4. The point about compliments is one that's massively exaggurated, but also relates to the chit chatting. It seems like for Americans exagguration is the default mode, such that everything is regularly "the best thing ever" or, at least, "so amazing". Again, I agree that in my experience paying compliments doesn't come as easily to Germans as it does to Americans, but if they do, that in turn makes them much more valuable. If I tell you that you have amazing eyes, that's not something I'll have casually said to hundeds of girls before. And that example of yours sounds more like something a pick-up artist ist trying on you than an actual compliment.
5. And lastly, credit cards are becoming more popular and always have been in some places, like in gas stations or restaurants. And while you can't use them at ALDI and LIDL, you can use at REWE and REAL. And of course they are very popular online, even on German web pages.
Being too friendly and polite comes over as being insincere in Germany.
I think this is mostly correct. Except that you're not showing differences between the US and Germany. You're showing differences between anglophone / continental-European countries (chatting, safety), Nordic vs. South (rule breaking, nudity), something that looks like a misunderstanding (liability insurance vs. property insurance), differences between the US and developed countries (credit consumed via cards vs. normal consumer credits from banks).
That's OK, everyone who moves around has been in a phase like this at some point. It would be great if you could say that this is the typical state one is in after 3-5 years of in that country/region.
Hello all! Last year I was an Au pair in bonn, Germany and I absolutely loved it. I am sadly back in Georgia now and miss Germany terribly and am constantly thinking of ways to go back. I hate to say I really didn't get along with the parents that I lived with ( but that's a whole separate story in itself) and I am very ashamed to say that even after living there for a year I am still not fluent. This is quite embarrassing on my part but honestly I blame the family because they spoke nothing but English to me and it was apart of my job to speak nothing but English to the children. Regardless, I am constantly thinking about Germany and various ways to go back and possibly live there for a little while longer. I have some German friends I can live with and I am confident that of I live with them for three months and attempt to speak nothing but German I will be almost fluent. However, does anyone have any suggestions for me on jobs or maybe even a good English school that they may know of that would be good for this English speaker who is absolutely obsessed with trying to go back to Germany? Also, don't suggest being an Au pair that was definitely a once on a lifetime thing. I do believe it or not have a bachelors degree in psychology though. Any suggestions for a possible next step for a German life for me? Thank you all.
Lol, should title this artical " How a nieve American Girl interprets another culture". Again this artical is only opinion based and far from facts, but come on now, at least try to learn this cultures history.
Did you mean NORTH-American habits? A habit that US-Americans should get rid of is using the term AMERICANS when referring to people from the US.
Why did you delete my comment?
SO they're a bunch of rude, immodest, reckless rules-Nazis? Aaaaaaand this makes them superior to Americans….
That party you mentioned, DID. NOT. HAPPEN. So full of shit. Artsy fartsy American making shit up.
Well, I would just append that Saxony is by far not all of "Germany", but rather rural and somewhat behind the moon.
Culture differs pretty much depending on the area in Germany, especially between North and South. And, by the way, I always thought Vegas represents US culture best, how can an American be upset about the German "Freikörperkultur" then?? 😉
I'd suggest you to travel a bit throughout Germany, and you'll recognize some strong differences in people and culture.
I take my habits wherever I go and make others adopt them.
Am I the only German who felt like puking while reading this?
I have been lucky enough to have been born with European and American passports, and hence two passports. As an EU citizen I lived and worked in Innsbruck, Austria for almost 3 years and return every summer to Europe. This summer will be my 15th anniversary. As a result I speak German, which is something I never thought I would ever do. My experience with the German language or culture, has been more the Austrian version, though there are a lot of similarities. Such as I have seen all of my bosses in Europe (and most of my friends) naked in Austria/Europe, while this is not the case in the US ( I mean how many Americans have seen their bosses naked?). Nudity is just not as much of a taboo as it is here in the states. Shops do close very early on the week day and if Monday is a Holiday, they usually close Friday to give everyone a long weekend. But there is always McDonald's or the gas station which can be open 24/7, and usually the Train Station is open 7 days a week. It's just a problem is small towns, rather than in the city. A lot of things are done on the honor system, like newspapers and the bus, and as the article said, there is a lack of safety warning and guard rails in certain areas. I remember being highly concerned when I was working as a camp counselor and we took small kids up the mountain to hike with a lot of places they could fall from or become injured (Like walking across a narrow dam). But truthfully most accidents are caused because people themselves are being careless, and that is there fault. Now as far as the small talk goes, I have had a different experience than the one(s) described in the article. I have had nice pleasant conversations with strangers that only last a few moments, and I always ask my friends how they are. No one seems to be too put off by it, or at least I don't think they are since we are still friends. I also know that before I moved to Austria and before I had so many Austrian and German friends, I immediately would think of Nazis or Hitler when I heard anyone speaking German. Now stuff like that never crosses my mind, as they are just people to me now. Either way I think it is a very important experience for every American to have, if they can, to live and experience a different culture in another country. I know it forever changed my world view for the better.
As a German who lived in the US for a couple of years and still spend a coupe of years over there it was funny to see WHAT habits one tends to give up over here… a French would have picked different ones. so I guess this says as much about the person as about the society he describes. very interesting indeed. I do not agree with the the credit card thing. I might depend where you live and Leipzig is for sure not the financial center and a former Easter Germany city but even there I cannot imagine that people do not use it. I live in Frankfurt and use it everywhere for everything, except for some rare places where you have to pay in cash or debit card. Also I cross the street whenever it's possible but often tell children that it's not OK… 😉
Store opening hours… well in Bavaria it's bad, too. But again this depends on the state and the city. here in Frankfurt the big supermarkets close at 22.00 or 24.00, they open at 07.00 so no problem at all.
I had to laugh about the nude think it's exactly like that the other way round. I find it funny to enter a sauna NOT being naked. Whenever I am in Dubai or Abu Dhabi I regognize the Americans in the sauna because for some reason they do not wrap a towel around their bodies but actually WEAR bathing clothes… they sit there sweating like that… totally funny to me…
I love No. 4. this is something that I never got used to in the US… caution wet floor… watch your step… all kinds of warnings on every electrical plug. You forget to use your brain, body at your own risk, replaced by" IF there was a risk somebody would tell us… if not… there can be no riks or at least not my responsibility if sth happens…this is weird and my friends were always joking about the helpless look people seem to have once "set free". Until now I never imagined Americans would be able to like the opposite. Cool.
After reading this thread I can say with every confidence that I know even less about the difference between Schuld' and 'Schulden' than I didn't know before. :-))
Hey , I'm german! About the insurance part: Actually it's not to care about the goods of other people. It's more about protecting you, 'cause when you break something which does not belong to you, you are the one who pays the damage. While having an insurance, in general case a great part if it get paid for you.
Iam living im the upper north of germany, i think you dont visit germany 😀
The discussion about the meaning of "Schuld" and "Schulden" and whether it is a plural form or not…that was VERY German btw…We Germans love to discuss, analyze and critizise. Enjoyed the article, had a good laugh! 😀
Leipzig isn t Germany! Hahaha you talk about Leipziger! Not germans!
Public nudity in eastern Germany does have nothing to do with oppression at all, it is a result of less influence by religion and the 'attached' morals
You got a few things very wrong. I'm English but was born and raised in Germany. The insurance you mentioned is a "Haftpflichtversicherung" of course it protects you! But it will pay the other person if you damage or brake their property, otherwise you'd have to pay it yourself. The thing with jaywalking is, that the fines are relatively high and you get points in a registry towards your drivers license, collect enough points and you'll lose your drivers license. You are right about the fact, that credit cards are not very widely spread. Most supermarkets don't accept them but not everything is paid in cash, we use debit cards or "EC-Karten".
Yep, reminds me a lot of moving from America to NL.
Number 10, for me, would be losing the expectation that, BOYS WILL BY DRINKS FOR PRETTY GIRLS.
In Germany, hella no. gar nicht…. even if you are on a date, and the guy is very interested in you.
While in America this is a cultural norm (and is kind of seen as both hot and gentlemanly) many European girls find the gesture sexist and insulting.
Number 10, for me, would be losing the expectation that BOYS WILL BUY DRINKS FOR PRETTY GIRLS.
In Germany, hella no. gar nicht…. even if you are on a date, and the guy is very interested in you.
While in America this is a cultural norm (and is kind of seen as both hot and gentlemanly) many European girls find the gesture sexist and insulting.
I am German and I cannot identify at all with the picture you paint. How long have you lived in Germany? What I am reading here is a mix of wrong conclusions based on vague first impressions, a couple of old stereotypes, and a few actual truths. When I first came to the USA I drew quick conclusions in a similar fashion and I realized how many preconceptions I carried with me – but that was in the first few days I was there. Judging from what you say you can't have been much longer here in Germany either (if at all ;)) so…please take your time to get us know better with an open mind. 🙂
Leipzig (where you obviously lived) as Dresden (where I did) are quite different from West German cities or smaller East German towns. They were even more so back when I moved there, soon after the fall of the Berlin Wall. But yes, most of the things you say are "spot on". Your experience would have been quite different (and not as fun) had you moved to Essen or Dortmund for example. Or God forbid East Berlin!
I like your article. It is catchy and nicely written. (This is coming from a German that has self-exiled himself to London)
(I'm german myself and..) It doesn't really make any sense, if people here complain about how this article is absolutely not true, because they themselves ARE germans, or they have spent many years in germany…
the thing is: germany is a pretty big country (not as big as america..of course..but in no way small) and there are huge differences from state to state! depending on the state in which you've spend the most time, you get to know certain people and start making assumptions about the rest of the country..which is normal, but problematic..
I personally live in NRW in the cologne area, and I have experienced, that the people from "my area" sometimes seem rude to "foreigners" (also to people from different states), because they often say what they think, not worrying about "exaggerated politeness". Also smalltalk is often practiced and not as much a no-go as it might be in other states. I love the people here, to me many of them seem warm and friendly and it's funny how they're always ready for friendly banter..even if they don't even know each other..
I've also visited schleswig holstein, bavaria and I've gotten to know some people from east- germany. And they are all completely different kind of people. Some seem cold and kind of stuck up, some seem careless and some seem a little whiny to me as someone who grew up in a different place. But that's only at first until you learn to love them for their different views on live and different lifestyles.
Each part of germany is different and no matter where you come from, you experience a "culture shock" at first, until you realise peoples positive attributes. So just take this article as what is is: the personal experience of one individuum, greatly influenced by the specitic area in which that person lives and meant as not a true representation of an entire country, but as an amusingly written list of observations.
I've just read the first two points and out of my view its totally bullshit. Not worth keepin reading
What I really miss since I live in Germany is the warm hearted way of my folk. Germans take life too seriously and let no place for humor and relaxing. Work seems to be the only priority in their lives, above anything else. Not enough to reach real hapiness.
M. Uh, that's not true. Germans take more holidays and leisure time than almost any country in the world…
"The German system relies on people contributing to the common good even when no one is watching"
Did someone just said that americans only contribute to the public good if someone is watching? Poor americans.
"Buying on credit"
It's not very smart. Learn something about cash-generation and the debt system. I consider it a huge problem that americans literally buy each and everything on credit.
"'Some places won't even take paper money' This, if true, is by US law, illegal, and should be reported to the Fed. No business can refuse cash payments. Period."
You sir, made my day. Oh lord take those american dumbasses … or were it dumbass americans ?
Matador network has changed. They just want traffic. And yes I agree with Geisterfahrerin. Can we stop the huge trail on Credit Card and Charge Card stuff.
When I was in Berlin, and Munchen I could use my Visa Credit Card almost anywhere. However, I also needed cash in many places like cafes, and smaller grocery stores. It wasn't like Denmark where I could use my credit card everywhere for a 1DKK purchase at 7-11 or an extended stay apartment rental.
XX Credit cards are also virtually nonexistent in Germany.XX
When were you last here? The 1950s or what?
This article is obviously a way this author is using to indirectly apologize for her own cultural ignorance as highlighted
Ok, I speak fluent German, have been in and out of Germany for over 30 years. THIRTY YEARS AGO when I tried to use my credit card in the Kaufhof, I definitely got puzzled looks, and was asked what it was-however, I had already checked, and they DID accept credit cards! Sooo, it took a half an hour to do the transaction. NOW? I was in Berlin last August, and I used my cards EVERYWHERE. It's a ridiculous statement to say credit cards aren't used. The Germans all have credit cards, and have been using them regularly for at least 20 years….Totally inaccurate comment by the author.
This is a great article. I should move to Germany since tees habits are not appreciated America. Especially keeping you mouth shut and not saying stupid things.
It is always risky to compare two countries without at least one additional country for triangulation. In some of the article's examples it is the US that is strange, in others it is Germany, and in others the analysis is questionable.
The author is well aware of the cliche that Americans ask "How are you?" as a simple greeting without "really" meaning it. Ironically, the accusation of superficiality is itself superficial. You'll see it cited in every "N Differences Between the US and Country X" article. An expat who knows a few languages might note that languages often have words and phrases whose protocol meaning differs from the literal meaning. For example, when Germans greet you with "Mahlzeit!", they don't really mean "Meal time!". When English-speakers say "Goodbye," they don't really mean "God be with ye." When young Russians greet other with "How are things?" and answer with "Nothing," it's pretty much like in English. That being said, in my experience, Germans in particular rely more on rules and less on flexibility and social lubricants (e.g. chit-chat, humor) to make things work.
Northern Europeans are generally not body conscious, and Germans are extreme among them. My most surprising examples are not about nudity, but nose-blowing (loud, hard, and right in the middle of meetings with shocked Asians), and women bending over to pick something up without bending their knees, aiming their ass right at you. Inconceivable in Russia.
The safety issue is an American oddity, 80% excessive, but 20% reasonable. In Berlin I have seen true hazards and irresponsibility; probably in the rest of Germany things are more balanced.
The guilt-and-insurance example I found bizarre. It seemed like the author was confused about liability insurance, which is also common in the US. *Yes*, the concern is protecting yourself: if you damage something in the apartment that you're renting, expect the owners to squeeze you for the most they can get. I've been through it, and so have friends, to the point of going to court.
The German work ethic certainly beats that of France and Italy, though I hear in Paris things also move pretty fast. In a typical German company cantine people wolf down their food during a half-hour lunch break. Several European countries have limited shopping hours and restricted work weeks. Yeah, it's a pain for those whose lives don't fit the schedule. Working longer here, especially two jobs, just puts you in a higher tax bracket, so better to take it easy.
Yes, credit cards (as opposed to debit cards) are less common in Germany, and plastic in general is still not universally accepted: you can get a nasty surprise when you try to pay your restaurant bill with plastic, or at least the wrong type of plastic.
Jaywalking in Berlin is common, if it makes sense, but don't do it in front of children. Yes, Germans take rules seriously. Berlin isn't Germany, at least sometimes. A few days ago I saw a hot girl talking on her mobile start to cross the street on a red light, *right past a cop with Polizei clearly printed in large letters on his back*. He barked at her, and she stepped back, waited, and then crossed on the green, never otherwise acknowledging him or anything else.
Anywhere you go you'll get in trouble if you overapply the stereotypes. Be careful about generalizing, at least for your first decade.
Another place I wouldn't set foot in.
So what? More holidays does not change the point, they are still cold, emotionally unavailable and unable to share a good laugh… and they have no sense of style at all!
Never been to Germany, but it is on my list of crap I want to do. My grandparents were German and moved to America – I never knew them, and my parents were born in the U.S., and I believe spoke some German; I however, cannot speak it worth a shit, but I tried to learn as a teenager, and was not interested. I recognize some of the described traits, and in all fairness, it is completely my deceased parents fault, but I am okay with it, and the last thing I said to them both was thanks for everything.
This makes me feel like I'd fit in beautifully in Germany. I wouldn't have thought my German heritage would still have that much bearing – the last of us came to North America more than a hundred years ago. But all these differences just seem so *sensible*!
I work for a German company and spend a lot of time in Germany and much more time working with Germans in Europe and in the US. It is very hard to draw such broad conclusions about a whole group, since individuals in Germany vary as much as individuals in the US. Yes Americans are typically more outgoing and overtly friendly than Germans. Generally, Germans don't do small talk. Generally, Germans are very direct. Everyone I know uses charge cards and stores in Germany take them. (I recently spent two weeks in Germany and any only used about 35 Euro cash the whole time.) Point #5 in the article, sorry I don;t see that one at all…
The first two "differences" bother me in so many ways possible. I know its just an opinion and it has to do entirely with the author's experiences. However these are ideas that a lot of people impose on the germans and they are completely unrealistic and quite honestly pretty nasty. Germans do like small talk, they love knowing about your culture and daily happenings as well as telling you about theirs, the flirting comment is downright stupid you make them look like emotionless cavemen. The thing that bothers me the most is that clearly you don't know their language and expect people to make the effort to socialize in YOUR language while in THEIR country which is probably something they wouldn't feel comfortable with. And lastly you are allowed to have your opinions but please don't write it in an online base where many people will read it because you will diffuse these ideals to people who have never been there , these where the ideals with which I lived all my life in Costa Rica before going over there , and let me tell you it was wonderful to see they're so open to getting to know you and that's why these articles bother me because they feed that stupid ideal.
Great article , I understand all the points made but would ad that I LOVE the German's construction ability. Of course the old world houses are great, but even the new stuff is nice. They still train men to go into the skilled trades, and many spend their life mastering carpentry, plumbing , electrical, etc. and they create beautiful houses way better than our dry wall and plastic crap.
Also, I think Geisterfahrerin misses the point about nudity. It's not that every beach is a nude beach , it's just that if someone sees nudity casually. for example if someone changes their bathing suit in public, they don't freak out and put someone on a sex offender list over it. Maybe one of the reasons they have a far lower incarceration rate than ours is that they don't have a hair trigger on the gun that shoots sex offender bullets, metaphorically speaking.
Many of the problems listed above relate to our neurotic legal system, with our time and money wasted worrying about baloney like hurt feelings. Most of our productivity goes toward arguing over who said what rather than building real stuff like houses and apartment buildings.
I liked most of those.
Great article!
The most important habit change would be to…actualy learn German. That might lead to better insight into German culture.
Also, one does not necessarily avoid public nudity out of any "fear", but may do so out of a much maligned virtue known as "modesty".
I work in Germany and am trying to learn the language it's a nightmare it seems even native Germans can't agree on the grammar half the time, think I'll pack it in, sie for instance means she, you and they what's that about ? I've come to the conclusion German just doesn't have enough words
The bike pump thing and that you wanted to cycle away is not a German or an American thing, it's a bitch thing.
This is almost 100% all false. Pretty sad you wrote for all of these people to read and its all wrong.
Hi Guys. As a German i must say i like the way you think about on us. Keep going 😉
This article gives just a wrong image of Germany and the germans. I am often in Germany and i never experienced that someone didnt say "Hi" if i said it. I worked in Munich in the Grosshadern Klinik, and every day when i got in the elevator, people where friendly like they know me their whole life (even they never saw me)..They always say Hi, Morgen, Servus, Grüss Gott etc.
I even found a flat at http://www.hostelano.com/en and lived with germans there. Trust me, i never have had better roommates…so this is not allways true 😉
well, the article is wonderful.
I'm glad I don't live in Germany, though .
I like North America.
I like hockey, baseball and LeBron James.
In Europe everything seems small and not well organized.
I like warning signs and guardrails.
Better safe than sorry.
Even though I don't plan on moving to Germany, I really like the idea of adapting some of their behavior – especially the one about pacing oneself at work. Love this site.
My family is from Germany and I still have family there. I laughed so hard at some of these things because I know they're true and I think back to so many similar things that happened when I've visited… i.e… while hiking outside of munich my german friends explained that if you fall off the cliff it's your fault for being an idiot, on this same hike we carried around beer and schnapps. Or the dark stare I get from my grandma that says absolutely everything and is designed to keep us in line… I got the same stare when I put my feet on the seat in the train in Munich. Then there was the nude spa I was invited to… along with the complete comfortability of changing in front of each other and walking around nude in front of strangers when I went to work out with about 50 germans., and then drank 2 litres of beer immediately following the workout. Radler is a staple, and they will even drink beer after races and marathons. They are blunt, but I'm used to that with my family…. But that doesn't mean they don't like small talk, they do, but usually it's about more meaningful stuff like the party they are planning for someone's birthday. They're human too. Have boy trouble and emotions, they're just more structured in certain ways.
Cash is ruler in shopping in Germany. They take credit cards but not everywhere, not even debit. Don't go to the grocery store without cash, I learned the hard way. They also fully expect you to handle anything they throw at you…. Oh, and yes, they will wait for the street light to change so you can walk across, even if there are no cars around, no people, and it's night… I've watched it it's quite funny but you fall in line quickly. The strictest part of Germany, and where most of this applies is in Bavaria, northern parts like berlin are more relaxed. I know I'm just rambling things off, sorry, but it's just a few " I second that" 's for this article. I didn't structure my response very well, damn american
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I'm german and i totally agree. especially No.5. Think about the effects of your actions on the people around ou too before you do something.
In regards to no. 5: they were talking about Liability Insurance, which everyone has here. This means in case your washing machine leaks and ruins the floor, your insurance covers it and nobody gets stuck with a huge bill. Or, if your child scrapes a car with his bicycle and causes damage the insurance will pay for that. It's protecting yourself from large bills, really.
I'm mentally ill, but Germans and Japanese embarrassed me at School, and throughout the Recreational Community as reported to my parents. My German Uncle Bob think about being friends with me in secrecy now, but they used to treat me like a War Baby, So now, I don't think about being close with them.
I'm mentally ill, but Germans and Japanese embarrassed me at School, and throughout the Recreational Community as reported to my parents. My German Uncle Bob think about being friends with me in secrecy now, and give me a glad hand of welcome, but they used to treat me like a War Baby. Maybe they didn't mean to think well of me in front of my parents, so now, I don't think about being close with them.
I'm mentally ill, but Germans and Japanese embarrassed me at School, and throughout the Recreational Community as reported to my parents. A Japanese Sub Teacher used to hold me for detention every time she sees me, but that's because she's curious about me, she wants to get involved with me, and teach me her Japanese ways. My German Uncle Bob think about being friends with me in secrecy now, and give me a glad hand of welcome, but they used to treat me like a War Baby. Maybe they didn't mean to think well of me in front of my parents, so now, I don't think about being close with them.
Sounds like my kinda place!
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