text:
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:25 PM
rurallib (43,636 posts)
Is there any movement to repeal the second ammendment?
There ought to be. As long as it is on the books it will be trouble.
72 replies, 5263 views
72 replies | Author | Time | Post |
Is there any movement to repeal the second ammendment? (Original post) |
rurallib | Dec 2012 | OP |
orpupilofnature57 | Dec 2012 | #1 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #16 | |
orpupilofnature57 | Dec 2012 | #18 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #21 | |
CTyankee | Dec 2012 | #64 | |
graham4anything | Dec 2012 | #26 | |
orpupilofnature57 | Dec 2012 | #44 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #2 | |
dkf | Dec 2012 | #3 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #5 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #17 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #20 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #25 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #32 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #35 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #36 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #39 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #40 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #42 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #48 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #49 | |
Recursion | Dec 2012 | #58 | |
treestar | Dec 2012 | #4 | |
friendly_iconoclast | Dec 2012 | #43 | |
Jenoch | Dec 2012 | #57 | |
treestar | Dec 2012 | #61 | |
Jenoch | Dec 2012 | #63 | |
H2O Man | Dec 2012 | #6 | |
HereSince1628 | Dec 2012 | #7 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #8 | |
HereSince1628 | Dec 2012 | #9 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #10 | |
HereSince1628 | Dec 2012 | #11 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #13 | |
ZombieMan | Dec 2012 | #12 | |
Zoeisright | Dec 2012 | #31 | |
NickB79 | Dec 2012 | #14 | |
banned from Kos | Dec 2012 | #47 | |
Dems to Win | Dec 2012 | #15 | |
-..__... | Dec 2012 | #22 | |
cthulu2016 | Dec 2012 | #19 | |
graham4anything | Dec 2012 | #27 | |
NickB79 | Dec 2012 | #33 | |
graham4anything | Dec 2012 | #41 | |
CTyankee | Dec 2012 | #65 | |
Mister Ed | Dec 2012 | #23 | |
cthulu2016 | Dec 2012 | #24 | |
Recursion | Dec 2012 | #59 | |
Angleae | Dec 2012 | #66 | |
sellitman | Dec 2012 | #28 | |
Quantess | Dec 2012 | #29 | |
Evergreen Emerald | Dec 2012 | #30 | |
duffyduff | Dec 2012 | #34 | |
davidn3600 | Dec 2012 | #37 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #38 | |
graham4anything | Dec 2012 | #45 | |
friendly_iconoclast | Dec 2012 | #50 | |
graham4anything | Dec 2012 | #52 | |
friendly_iconoclast | Dec 2012 | #60 | |
graham4anything | Dec 2012 | #62 | |
friendly_iconoclast | Dec 2012 | #72 | |
jody | Dec 2012 | #71 | |
Major Nikon | Dec 2012 | #46 | |
Recursion | Dec 2012 | #67 | |
samsingh | Dec 2012 | #51 | |
Android3.14 | Dec 2012 | #53 | |
MightyMopar | Dec 2012 | #55 | |
Berserker | Dec 2012 | #68 | |
Jeff In Milwaukee | Dec 2012 | #54 | |
Jenoch | Dec 2012 | #56 | |
TransitJohn | Dec 2012 | #69 | |
Shrek | Dec 2012 | #70 |
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:28 PM
orpupilofnature57 (15,472 posts)
1. If it was, who would be the only people with guns ?
Rust limp gaul isn't much of an example for the first, you now what I mean .
Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #1)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:59 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
16. The same people who have them now
There's no enumerated right in the Constitution for cars, yet lots of people own them.
The 2nd amendment as it has been interpreted just recently only serves as an obstacle to reasonable regulation. As such it has far outlived its usefulness and should be removed. |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #16)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 05:57 PM
orpupilofnature57 (15,472 posts)
18. Driving a car is a Privilege, owning a gun Should be the same,,,,Now .
Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #18)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:07 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
21. It already is
Most states don't allow felons and certain others to possess guns and certain types of guns are further restricted to everyone. It's just a matter of how far we can regulate them.
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #16)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:28 PM
CTyankee (49,976 posts)
64. I agree entirely...
Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #1)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:26 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
26. guns are not meant to overthrow governments in coup'd'etats. Tea party wants anarchy
Response to graham4anything (Reply #26)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:44 AM
orpupilofnature57 (15,472 posts)
44. The Tea party wants Antebellum .
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:32 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
2. If 2A were repealed, RKBA would be protected as an unenumerated right by the Ninth Amendment. nt
Response to jody (Reply #2)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:43 PM
dkf (37,305 posts)
3. First time I've seen this mentioned. Interesting.
Response to dkf (Reply #3)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:00 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
5. Heller dissent by Stevens recognized RKBA for self-defense by PA(1776) & VT(1777). Constitution does
not mention inalienable/unalienable rights as PA & VT acknowledged but in Heller both opinion and dissent justices acknowledge preexisting rights that do not depend upon our Constitution.
PA & VT could not have given away inalienable/unalienable rights when they ratified our Constitution and BOR and they preexist our Constitution. If the Second Amendment did not exist, then PA & VT's "right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state" would still exist and protected as an unenumerated right under the Ninth. A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE COMMONWEALTH OR STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 28 Sept. 1776 "That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety." And "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power." |
Response to jody (Reply #5)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 05:54 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
17. I didn't get that out of the dissent
The reason Stevens acknowledged PA and VT constitutions is because he specifically provided them as examples of how Madison knew about the inclusion of civilian uses for firearms in other constitutions and specifically declined to include such language in the 2nd Amendment.
Using the 9th Amendment as justification for a civilian right to "keep and bear arms" is a pretty weak argument generally only found deep in the annals of gun nuttery. Even Scalia doesn't even try to make that weak argument in the majority opinion, and he makes a number of other weak arguments. |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #17)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:03 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
20. Perhaps you and I brought different backgrounds when we read Steven's dissent.
The parallels between the Second Amendment and these state declarations, and the Second Amendment s omission of any statement of purpose related to the right to use firearms for hunting or personal self-defense, is especially striking in light of the fact that the Declarations of Rights of Pennsylvania and Vermont did expresslyprotect such civilian uses at the time. Article XIII of Pennsylvanias 1776 Declaration of Rights announced that the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state, 1 Schwartz 266 (emphasis added); §43 of the Declaration assured that the inhabitants of this state shall have the liberty to fowl and hunt in seasonable times on the lands they hold, and on all other lands therein not inclosed, id., at 274. And Article XV of the 1777 Vermont Declaration of Rights guaranteed {t|}hat the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State. Id., at 324 (emphasis added). The contrast between those two declarations and the Second Amendment reinforces the clear statement of purpose announced in the Amendments preamble. It confirms that the Framers single-minded focus in crafting the constitutional guarantee to keep and bear arms was on military uses of firearms, which they viewed in the context of service in state militias.
I can understand how someone who has an agenda to deny law-abiding citizens the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense would arrive at different understanding of the highlighted passages from PA and VT constitutions than others who support the plain meaning of those passages. |
Response to jody (Reply #20)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:21 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
25. Try it with this part highlighted...
The parallels between the Second Amendment and these state declarations, and the Second Amendment s omission of any statement of purpose related to the right to use firearms for hunting or personal self-defense, is especially striking in light of the fact that the Declarations of Rights of Pennsylvania and Vermont did expresslyprotect such civilian uses at the time. Article XIII of Pennsylvanias 1776 Declaration of Rights announced that the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state, 1 Schwartz 266 (emphasis added); §43 of the Declaration assured that the inhabitants of this state shall have the liberty to fowl and hunt in seasonable times on the lands they hold, and on all other lands therein not inclosed, id., at 274. And Article XV of the 1777 Vermont Declaration of Rights guaranteed {t|}hat the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State. Id., at 324 (emphasis added). The contrast between those two declarations and the Second Amendment reinforces the clear statement of purpose announced in the Amendments preamble. It confirms that the Framers single-minded focus in crafting the constitutional guarantee to keep and bear arms was on military uses of firearms, which they viewed in the context of service in state militias. |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #25)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:08 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
32. OK but Stevens closed the door when he acknowledged RKBA as a pre-existing right. If not 2A then 9A.
When each word in the text is given full effect, the Amendment is most naturally read to secure to the people a right to use and possess arms in conjunction with service in a well-regulated militia. So far as appears, no more than that was contemplated by its drafters or is encompassed within its terms. Even if the meaning of the text were genuinely susceptible to more than one interpretation, the burden would remain on those advocating a departure from the purpose identified in the preamble and from settled law to come forward with persuasive new arguments or evidence. The textual analysis offered by respondent and embraced by the Court falls far short of sustaining that heavy burden.14 And the Courts emphatic reliance on the claim that the Second Amendment
codified a pre-existing right, ante, at 19, is of course beside the point because the right to keep and bear arms for service in a state militia was also a pre-existing right.
That's my point, five justices say the Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms for self defense as a pre-existing right. Four dissenting justices reject the opinion but acknowledge the right to keep and bear arms for self defense is a pre-existing right. One can twist their statement anyway they wish but the if the dissent every becomes the majority then RKBA as a pre-existing right is then protected by the Ninth Amendment. |
Response to jody (Reply #32)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:41 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
35. If the 9A argument is as strong as you claim, why didn't Scalia make it?
The question in front of the court was not the scope of the 2A. The question before the court was the constitutionality of the DC ban. If the 9A argument had any merit, Scalia would have mentioned it. In the majority decision he only mentions the 9A in relation to the context of what "the people" meant.
If this argument had any merit whatsoever, there's no question Scalia would have included it. Instead his argument centered almost solely over the text of the amendment. Scalia pretends to be an "originalist" when it comes to the Constitution, and if he actually had used the method he claims to subscribe, he would have reached exactly the opposite conclusion. Stevens points this out brilliantly in his dissent. Just like most of the other garbage that comes out of Scalia, his decision was complete shit and flies in the face of everything Scalia supposedly stands in support. |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #35)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:21 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
36. Because Scalia asked a different question "We consider whether a District of Columbia prohibition
on the possession of usable handguns in the home violates the Second Amendment to the Constitution."
A number of people in 2007 asked whether the question Scalia posed was too narrow. I'm not an attorney and not a Constitutional scholar but back in 2007 I was persuaded that a better question might have been, "Is there an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense and if yes is it protected by the Second Amendment as an enumerated right or by the Ninth Amendment as an unenumerated right?" I do not apologize for my structure above since I've already identified myself as not an attorney nor constitutional scholar. Still I believe that would have been a better question than posed in Heller. |
Response to jody (Reply #36)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:56 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
39. Scalia didn't pose the question, nor could he
The question came to him. His job as a SCOTUS justice is to stand as one of 9 final arbiters to questions posed to the court. Regardless of what argument you think Scalia should have made, the only thing that matters is what argument he actually did make because that was the argument that was addressed by the dissent.
Scalia is an originalist who believes that the Constitution should reflect the ordinary meaning of a reasonable person who lived at the time it was written. Scalia has repeatedly said that if the Constitution doesn't say it, you can't infer it. So even if the 9th Amendment argument had any validity whatsoever (and I'm certainly not saying it does), it is a non-starter for both Scalia and Thomas who are both originalists. Scalia's argument was that the 2nd Amendment specifically included the right of self-defense, calling it "analogous" to other state constitutions which actually did specifically include such language (as you have already pointed out). Stevens, the other dissenting justices, and the best legal minds in the country tore Scalia a new asshole for his decision, and what was his response? Fuck you, I'm a SCOTUS justice and you're not. That was his answer which only proves what a complete fuckup he is. He's a hypocritical asshole who rails against "activist judges", then becomes one when it suits his ideology and simply ignores his critics. Both him and Thomas have no business as SCOTUS jurists and neither should have ever been confirmed. Even Bush knew what fuckups Scalia and Thomas are. That's why neither was made Chief Justice and never will be. |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #39)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:06 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
40. Regardless Stevens in dissent acknowledged RKBA for self-defense. If not 2A then 9a. nt
Response to jody (Reply #40)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:03 AM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
42. Are you just repeating this from some gun nut site?
Because it doesn't appear as if you understand what the Stevens dissent means. You would help yourself by reading all of it. Stevens listed two state (commonwealth) documents that included language for self defense which supported his argument that self-defense was specifically excluded from the 2A. That doesn't mean he "acknowledged" that right as it applies to the 2nd Amendment or any other. He simply cited factual information in historical documents which support his argument just like any other judge does. Certainly VA and PA could include a civilian right to bear arms just like any other state can in their own constitution. Stevens never challenged this because that's NOT the argument Scalia made.
Here is the wiki article on the 9th Amendment. The only reference to what you are saying is this: Gun rights activists in recent decades have sometimes argued for a fundamental natural right to keep and bear arms that both predates the U.S. Constitution and is covered by the Constitution's Ninth Amendment; according to this viewpoint, the Second Amendment only enumerates a pre-existing right to keep and bear arms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution The reference provided by wiki is a gun nut site. I'm not going to entertain gun nut arguments written by gun nuts for the consumption of gun nuts. My only interest is discussing what the SCOTUS decision actually argued and actually said, not some tangential fantasy argument from some gun nut web site. Scalia didn't even go there and I damn sure ain't. If you want to, be my guest, but I'm not going there with you. If you want to have that discussion, the gungeon is the perfect place for it. You won't find me in there. Just sayin' |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #42)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:19 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
48. Link to my post below the day Heller was released. Sorry you are not capable of understanding the
point I make.
I'll continue later with someone else who can. Goodbye. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x177461 |
Response to jody (Reply #48)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:46 PM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
49. You're confusing understanding with caring
I understand exactly what your argument is and where it comes from which I pointed out some time ago in post #17. I can provide references to this argument going back as far as 40 years ago at least. So I'm sure you'd like people to believe it's your idea, but I find it quite hard to believe you would somehow come up with an independent conclusion that just so happens to mirror the nuttiest of gun nuttery that's been around for decades.
Response to dkf (Reply #3)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 02:27 PM
Recursion (50,706 posts)
58. Stevens and Ginsburg IIRC both argued that
I actually lean towards that view; I think the 2nd amendment protects our right to keep firearms in a town arsenal.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:45 PM
treestar (66,995 posts)
4. There should be. It has to be started in each state, too.
So as to get the statehouse votes needed.
Connecticut - good place to start. Then list the states that should be targeted. Too bad the 2010 election created so many right wing state houses. That needs working on, too. |
Response to treestar (Reply #4)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:10 AM
friendly_iconoclast (13,834 posts)
43. And it would take only thirteen states to stop it in its tracks.
Response to treestar (Reply #4)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 02:16 PM
Jenoch (7,720 posts)
57. Before the states can vote on it,
an amendment must be passed by a 2/3 vote in congress.
Response to Jenoch (Reply #57)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:23 PM
treestar (66,995 posts)
61. True, so it's a tall order
We need to not back down because it's hard, though. Get the mechanisms into place for when there is a Democratic, i.e., more reasonable House/Senate. And quit electing Republicans to all offices.
Response to treestar (Reply #61)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:26 PM
Jenoch (7,720 posts)
63. See my post at the bottom of this thread.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:02 PM
HereSince1628 (36,063 posts)
7. No, but there seems to be some movement to narrow the Fourteenth
with respect to due process for the mentally ill.
Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #7)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:06 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
8. Any group proposing to abolish an inalienable/unalienable right they hate, ignore unintended
consequences aka "what goes around, comes around."
Response to jody (Reply #8)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:20 PM
HereSince1628 (36,063 posts)
9. The 14th Amendment doesn't provide unalienable rights...
The 14th amendment provides Constitutional rights amongst them Due Process.
I don't understand your comment. |
Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #9)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:33 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
10. McDonald v Chicago, Second Amendment incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment and applies to the states.
PA(1776) & VT(1777) acknowledged RKBA is an inalienable/unalienable right and SCOTUS acknowledged the Second Amendment preexisted our Constitution, then McDonald v Chicago linked all that together under the Fourteenth, didn't it? |
Response to jody (Reply #10)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:41 PM
HereSince1628 (36,063 posts)
11. I'm not a lawyer...so the language inalienable/unalienable is unfamiliar
my comment re the 14th and due process was about the pubic outcry, and that of the NRA, for denying the broadly characterized "mentally ill' the right to own firearms without a trial or opportunity to contest that action.
Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #11)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:50 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
13. I'm not a lawyer either. I understand and agree with your point. nt
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:50 PM
ZombieMan (3 posts)
12. Not in my lifetime.
Response to ZombieMan (Reply #12)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:18 PM
Zoeisright (8,339 posts)
If that's a challenge, I accept it.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:52 PM
NickB79 (13,150 posts)
14. Man, we are really trying hard to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, aren't we?
By "we", I mean the progressive/left/Democratic party.
Something like 100 million households in the US have guns. A large portion of those are Democrats as well as the stereotypical conservative population. Numerous polls over the years here on DU alone have shown that a large number of DU'ers own firearms and support the 2nd Amendment as an individual right, albeit with wide disagreement on how it's interpreted and implemented. We're finally seeing the possibility that we've broken the stranglehold the GOP has had on this country since Reagan was elected. Obama was re-elected despite numerous problems that he inherited, and the tide felt like it was finally turning towards a more progressive way of politics in this country. Has it occurred to anyone else just why Obama was virtually silent on gun control his entire first term? If he had tried to re-instate the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban then, his chances for re-election would have been stymied. The political backlash against a push for an outright ban on gun ownership through repeal of the 2nd Amendment would be epic in scale. The NRA would have so much money pouring in, they wouldn't be able to spend it fast enough. |
Response to NickB79 (Reply #14)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:16 AM
banned from Kos (4,017 posts)
47. Spot on. All purple states would swing back red.
Gun bans are political suicide.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:53 PM
Dems to Win (2,161 posts)
15. National Don't Wanna Get Shot By A Rifle Association. Help collect 4 million signatures
Please help kick the thread to the front page
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022055101 Half of American homes do not have guns, yet we are at terrible risk from the lethal weapons in our neighbors' homes. Enough! Time for us to speak out. That's why I created a petition to The United States House of Representatives, The United States Senate, and President Barack Obama, which says: "Repeal the Second Amendment Now. This anachronistic, poorly worded amendment prevents us from passing real gun control measures that will be effective in stopping the ongoing gun slaughter. It should be no more a constitutional right to own a gun than to own a car." Will you sign my petition? Click here to add your name: http://signon.org/sign/repeal-the-second-amendment-6?source=c.fwd&r_by=5543184 |
Response to Dems to Win (Reply #15)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:10 PM
-..__... (7,776 posts)
22. 18 signatures so far.
4 more and you can have yourself a game of soccer.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 05:59 PM
cthulu2016 (10,960 posts)
19. Which states Romney won are we looking at to ratify it?
It takes 33 states.
That doesn't mean don't try... just noting that it is something that will not happen for a very long time. Having the Suprme Court rewrite the 2nd Amendment is much more doable, though neither is easy. |
Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #19)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:32 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
27. It's quite easy. Obama44 and Hillary45 name 4-5 new justices who will do that w/Bloomberg financing
with Bloomberg financing any and all candidates to be for just that
money talks, the NRA will be history as they no longer can blackmail candidates and common sense will prevail within 6 to 12 years the NRA will say nothing is happening, but then redwoods take a while once planted to bloom the NRA has less than 4 million members, some of which are dead. Put that figure w/total population and its 1.5 %. 98.5% of the people don't want it and in each state, even the reddest, there are people. many things can be done, including taking away the tax free status for one It's a perfect storm, and there are people in place that can achieve this consittutionally |
Response to graham4anything (Reply #27)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:16 PM
NickB79 (13,150 posts)
33. You think the NRA's membership and income will stay static
In the face of that kind of onslaught on their perceived rights?!? Really?
Hell, I expect the NRA's numbers and donations to EXPLODE in the next year just because of the whispers of more gun control we're already seeing due to Sandy Hook. The main reason the NRA's numbers and income has been dropping in recent years is that the Democrats haven't thrown them any red meat to rally the troops, so to speak. There's a damn good reason Obama didn't say anything about gun control, or push new gun control measures, in his first term. It would have made his re-election much more difficult, and put many of his fellow Democrats from gun-friendly states in a very awkward position. It may sound crazy, but the NRA lives off things like this. It gives validation to their paranoid claims that Democrats are out to "come take your guns away!" Bloomberg's finances would have a hard time competing with the bump the gun rights advocacy groups would get nationally. Look how the billions that the GOP's big guns like the Koch's and Adelson's brought to bear in the last election won them very little in return. If the Democrats don't play this right, we might not see another Democrat win the White House in 2016 to put more SC justices in place. |
Response to NickB79 (Reply #33)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:43 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
41. this is such convoluted logic. The louder one speaks, the quicker they are gone
Hillary45 already has won 2016.
The NRA is toast. Bloomberg is financing the opposition and he has more money than the NRA and Sheldon A. put together. Let alone the millions of people out there that donate too. |
Response to graham4anything (Reply #27)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:33 PM
CTyankee (49,976 posts)
65. I like your thinking here, graham...
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:16 PM
Mister Ed (2,295 posts)
23. Is it even possible to repeal an amendment in the Bill of Rights?
I thought I'd read that those first ten amendments, i.e. the Bill of Rights, are not subject to repeal. But I have only a hazy, ninth-grade-civics-class understanding of Constitutional law.
Could those with a better understanding of the law weigh in and inform me on this? Thanks, Mr. Ed |
Response to Mister Ed (Reply #23)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:17 PM
cthulu2016 (10,960 posts)
24. Yes, anything in the Constitution can be ammended.
Response to Mister Ed (Reply #23)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 02:29 PM
Recursion (50,706 posts)
59. Anything can be amended
Just like any other part of the Constitution.
Response to Mister Ed (Reply #23)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:42 AM
Angleae (2,542 posts)
66. Possible, yes. Realistically, not a snowball's chance in hell (and I don't mean a town in Michigan).
You need 38 state legislatures to do so.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:47 PM
sellitman (9,770 posts)
28. I think it should be left as it is.
I think it should be implemented as written.
"Well Regulated" Very, |
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:52 PM
Quantess (27,630 posts)
29. Yeah, good luck with that.
Good luck passing even the slightest amount of gun control, actually.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:09 PM
Evergreen Emerald (11,899 posts)
30. I think it needs re-defining
Not repealing.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:19 PM
duffyduff (3,251 posts)
34. You don't need to repeal it
What you need is a high court that actually interprets the law like it is supposed to instead of making up shit like it did in 2008 with regard to the Second Amendment.
The Roberts court completely violated decades of precedent while making up shit about an individual's "right" to own a gun. |
Response to duffyduff (Reply #34)
davidn3600 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to duffyduff (Reply #34)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:55 PM
jody (26,624 posts)
38. If 2A were repealed, RKBA would be protected as an unenumerated right by the Ninth Amendment. nt
Response to jody (Reply #38)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:55 AM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
45. Isn't it odd that the gunnies are now using a different amendment, ha ha ha ha
It is funny as the gunnies never before thought any other than the 2nd mattered.
now they are running toward another I run toward the woman's privacy issue. Women are constitutionally allowed to have an abortion, yet it has been parsed to almost never occurring. Let's do the same and make gun sales almost impossible especially in red states like Kansas. And no gun shows. And make it so infrequent that it is next to impossible. Just like the same folks did to abortions. |
Response to graham4anything (Reply #45)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:35 PM
friendly_iconoclast (13,834 posts)
50. "Now using"? Where have you been?
Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #50)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:37 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
52. Show me where on gun threads that was mentioned before this incident
Response to graham4anything (Reply #52)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:06 PM
friendly_iconoclast (13,834 posts)
60. Here you go, these are just the ones I could be arsed to find:
BTW, doing a site search with the terms "Fourteenth Amendment" and "gun control"
will return 5000+ results... http://www.democraticunderground.com/117254430#post11 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=53326 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=1685 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=7353 http://www.democraticunderground.com/117212744#post25 http://www.democraticunderground.com/117212744#post59 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=7360 |
Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #60)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:14 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
62. I thought we were talking about the 9th amendment and I thought only 1-10 are what
you guys say count
the 14th is past the first 10 they come in handy though, don';t they? |
Response to graham4anything (Reply #62)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 02:34 AM
friendly_iconoclast (13,834 posts)
72. It's evident you thought wrongly, now isn't it?
Response to graham4anything (Reply #52)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:39 AM
jody (26,624 posts)
71. See link below posted 27 June 2008
Response to duffyduff (Reply #34)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:11 AM
Major Nikon (25,031 posts)
46. Exactly
Scalia's decision was completely ridiculous. His entire argument revolves around ignoring the first 13 words of the second amendment and inventing a self-defense inferrence which Madison specifically rejected. What's truly comical about it is that Scalia pretends to be an originalist who interprets the plain meaning of the Constitution and constantly whines about "activist judges", yet the only way he can get to his decision is by rejecting the plain language meaning of the 2A in favor of an inferred meaning which is historically inaccurate. It's judicial activism at its finest.
Response to duffyduff (Reply #34)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:48 AM
Recursion (50,706 posts)
67. Then-Senator Obama said it referred to an individual right in 2008, before Heller was decided
I think there's a bit of protesting-too-much that this is some crazy, wackadoo view that Heller came up with out of nowhere. Obama's actual quote was, "if you ask me, that looks like an individual right".
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:37 PM
samsingh (14,658 posts)
51. we need to insist that it be interpreted properly and accurately
and not parsed to sell guns
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:47 PM
Android3.14 (5,402 posts)
53. Only by people who are as bugnut crazy as the other end of the spectrum of this debate
With the rest of us, we are hoping the sane consensus will grow to ban assault weapons and large clips, and maybe do something about tracking guns to keep them out of the hands of persons who are mentally incompetent and unable to handle the responsibility.
Repeal the second amendment? Sure. That's gonna happen. Maybe they'll ban cars next. |
Response to Android3.14 (Reply #53)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:59 PM
MightyMopar (735 posts)
55. We need a new Consitution in general, this one has become too damaged
"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the Covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment
laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind
as that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, institutions must advance also, to keep pace with the times
We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain forever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
-- Thomas Jefferson, on reform of the Virginia Constitution |
Response to Android3.14 (Reply #53)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:52 AM
Berserker (3,419 posts)
68. Awesome post
And welcome to DU.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:51 PM
Jeff In Milwaukee (13,992 posts)
54. It was never a problem until a few years ago
For about 200 years, the Supreme Court had NEVER recognized an individual right to own a firearm. It wasn't until 2008 and Columbia v. Heller (with Scalia writing the majority 5-4 decision) that the court ever did so.
So what we need is some new Supreme Court Justices. Might be easier that amending the constitution. |
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 02:13 PM
Jenoch (7,720 posts)
56. Remember what happened in the 1994 elections over the AWB?
In order to amend the constitution, the amendment needs a 2/3 vote in both the senate and house before being sent to the various state legislative bodies. If by some miracle that happened, then 3/4 of the states must ratify the amendment. It would be more prudent to get control of the nutjobs with guns in another manner.
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:58 AM
TransitJohn (6,893 posts)
69. I see that going less far than the ERA. eom
Response to rurallib (Original post)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:17 AM
Shrek (2,475 posts)
70. Nearly all state constitutions also guarantee gun rights
Repealing the second amendment would have a limited effect.


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April Editable Newsletter Posted on March 25, 2017March 25, 2017 by Jess DOWNLOAD COLOR EDITABLE HEREDOWNLOAD COLOR EDITABLE BLANK HEREDOWNLOAD B/W EDITABLE HEREDOWNLOAD B/W EDITABLE BLANK HERE[IMG]http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww356/jjensen1109/Postfooter.jpg[/IMG]... Read More
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Primary 5, Lesson 7 Posted on February 16, 2017February 16, 2017 by Jess I LOVE this quote and thought that it was just perfect for this lesson!I also ran across this fun crossword puzzle from an old Friend magazine and created an easy printable for it. Please note th... Read More
2017 Primary Song Snowflakes Posted on January 8, 2017January 8, 2017 by Erin Isenberg Back by popular demand! Since 2013, I've been making snowflakes that correlate with the year's Primary songs. For information on how to make and use them, click on the 2013 link here.... Read More
2016 Primary Song Snowflakes Posted on January 8, 2017January 8, 2017 by Erin Isenberg Back by popular demand! Since 2013, I've been making snowflakes that correlate with the year's Primary songs. For information on how to make and use them, click on the 2013 link here. &nbs... Read More
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January Editable Newsletter Posted on December 19, 2016December 19, 2016 by Jess DOWNLOAD COLOR EDITABLE NEWSLETTER HEREDOWNLOAD B/W EDITABLE NEWSLETTER HERE[IMG]http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww356/jjensen1109/Postfooter.jpg[/IMG]... Read More
2017 Primary Bulletin Board Gumball Machine Posted on December 17, 2016December 17, 2016 by Jess THIS was such a fun request! Thank you Emilee for requesting it!This is a 20x26 large poster to use with the CTR Challenge that will be in the Friend each month. You can see January-March right n... Read More
2017 Primary Bulletin Board Headers Posted on December 10, 2016December 10, 2016 by Jess These little beauties are available in 2 designs! Sized with 3 headers per 8.5x11 page.Headers included in both designs:CalendarAnnouncementsBirthdaysActivity DaysCub ScoutsScriptureThemeArticle of Fa... Read More
2017 Primary CD and Jewel Case Covers Posted on December 10, 2016December 10, 2016 by Jess For these please note that I have ONLY tested the Avery label 5931 (and equivalents), the other templates are only from several years of doing these. Please print one test before printing for you... Read More
2017 Primary SPANISH Monthly Posters Posted on December 6, 2016December 6, 2016 by Jess There were just too many requests not to do these in Spanish so thank you for your emails and comments!Please note that the JPEG folders are for taking to Costco/Walmart and printing as pictures, if y... Read More
2017 Primary Binder Covers and Insert Posted on December 3, 2016December 3, 2016 by Jess Included in the download are all the standard classes, "A" classes, and "B" Classes.When you follow the "DOWNLOAD HERE" below it will take you to the Dropbox window. It will ask you to sign in but you... Read More


text: Doris Kearns Goodwin on CNN (10 January, 2017)On the eve of President Obama's Farewell Address, here's "The Legacy of Barack Obama" from CNN. On the program, Doris weighs in on the historical significance of The Affordable Healthcare Act, also known as Obamacare, which proved a notably polarizing piece of legislation during Obama's time in The White House. With President Obama focused on finally ensuring affordable healthcare for all Americans, a sector that seven of his predecessors had been unable to accomplish, Goodwin recalls "that Presidents have been trying since Teddy Roosevelt to get healthcare passed. FDR was hoping to do it [and] JFK." See part of the Fareed Zakaria documentary here. HOME ABOUT BOOKS EVENTS ON TV LINCOLN THE MOVIE IN THE NEWS CONTACT Copyright © 2012 Blithedale Productions, Inc. All rights reserved. Web Services by David Cosgrove Los Angeles Web Design |


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text:
Posted on 06/23/2014 10:34:35 AM PDT by PoloSec
Former President Bill Clinton has been busy writing playbooks for his wife, Hillary, to use in her likely 2016 presidential campaign including how to take maximum advantage of my death," according to a new book out Monday.
In Edward Klein's Blood Feud: The Clintons vs. The Obamas, the former president is quoted suggesting that his death and subsequent state funeral would help elect Hillary Clinton. He said it would be worth a couple of million votes.
In the epilogue of his book, provided to Secrets, Klein quotes Bill Clinton complaining that the Hillary Clinton for President campaign in 2008 started too late. He also said that when she runs, Hillary Clinton has got to hit hard at the Obama record.
Klein, a former New York Times and Newsweek editor, interviewed dozens of Clinton and Obama insiders for his book which details hostile feelings between the two political families.
In one conversation revealed to Klein, Clinton, who has suffered heart troubles, suggests that there is a benefit to his wife if he dies before the election.
Starting on page 276, Klein begins by quoting the former president:
Im worried how my health will affect your campaign, he said. I have to do all I can to prepare the campaign playbooks, but I also have to accept the fact that if I fall by the wayside, you have to continue without me and make a positive thing out of it.
A positive thing? Hillary said. What the hell are you talking about?
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...
Don't worry about that Bill. She will piss on your grave.
Doesn't sound like too smart a thing for Ol' Slick to tell Hillary ...
I wouldn't put it past either of them. Him to put this all together and her to run it out just as he advised.
Evidently there is nothing so bad, in their world, that it cannot be exploited.
That works for me - if it turns out she kills him.
Bill Clinton is dead? Who knew? lol
Standing up!
State funeral? Where? North Korea?
If you guys thought the Paul Wellstone Memorial/Fundraiser/Pep-Rally/Free-For-All was something, just wait until either of these two old Commies pass on.
You ain't seen nothin' yet, LOL!
That quote in and of itself illustrates the difference between the two. Bill is the consummate politician, who can play four three-dimensional political chess games at the same time. Hillary on the other hand, has the political instincts of a pet rock.
Given all the snippets being leaked about this book, it sounds like it should be pretty much an overly lengthy National Enquirer piece...
I would think it would be a great fund-raising tool:
"Piss on Bill Clinton's grave! $100!
I could go broke contributing to that fund.
People dancing in the streets, throwing manure at the casket....oh yes, I can see it all.
I hope he goes slowly.
Under the outhouse at the Clintoon Libary! (sic on purpose)
This should not have surprised me, but it really did. If this is true, how did the writer find out such a juicy gem of information? Bill may not want to put that 'bee in her bonnet'.
I find it astonishing that he thinks so little of this country that he would consider his death a chance for her to become CIC.
It's all a game to them—no more,no less.
I heard he has named his unit the vuvuzuela. Ever since he saw all those adoring soccer fans blowing those obnoxious horns at the South Africa hosted world cup a few years ago he can not get it out of his head.
The syphilis will probably get him first.
He died? Who knew?
How will they close the lid with that thing sticking up ?
"""" I would think it would be a great fund-raising tool:
"Piss on Bill Clinton's grave! $100!
I could go broke contributing to that fund.
I would sell my house so I could contribute non stop.
Bwahahahahahahah! BILL writing "playbooks" on how HILLARY can take advantage of his death to get elected?
Oh yeah, playbooks were written - tons and tons and tons of them.
But Hillary didn't need any help from Bill on that score - and the LAST thing Bill would do is help her in THIS area.
Oh man, how over-the-top is this! The shills have become unhinged for Hillary this time! Bwahahahahaha!
You want to see their REAL relationship? It's right here:
This is a LIE......Ed Klein worked for LYING Publications, so I don't believe a word he says.
The size of his ego is simply amazing.
Who thinks this way ?
Turning one's death into a political advantage for his wife
tells us all you need to know about how much he values human life
"What difference does it make?"
Such disappointment. I was hoping to read that it was imminent....
If you guys thought the Paul Wellstone Memorial/Fundraiser/Pep-Rally/Free-For-All was something, just wait until either of these two old Commies pass on.
My consolation will be that I will not understand neither the memorial nor the media coverage of it, as all will be in Spanish to accommodate the needs of the new majority, which is now flooding in to supplant us.
Bill Clinton is dead? Who knew?....Monica?
1) Clintons own words show his often expressed innate hostility to, and utter contempt for, the core principles of the American founding:
``If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the governments ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees. -- President Bill Clinton, August 12, 1993
``The purpose of government is to reign in the rights of the people - Bill Clinton during an interview on MTV in 1993
``We cant be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans that we forget about reality. -- President Bill Clinton, quoted in USA Today, March 11, 1993, Page 2A, ``NRA change: `Omnipotent to powerful by Debbie Howlett
When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly that they would work for the common good, as well as for the individual welfare However, now theres a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say theres too much freedom. When personal freedoms being abused, you have to move to limit it. Bill Clinton, April 19, 1995
2) Clinton inevitably pursued his own political advantage at the expense of American interests and national security. Here is just one of many possible examples:
It is well documented that Clinton and the Democrats took illegal campaign money from groups and individuals tied directly to the Chinese Peoples Republican Army. It is therefore not surprising that In January 1998 Clinton went against the advice of then-Secretary of State Warren Christopher and Pentagon experts by lifting long-standing restrictions against the export of American satellites to China for launch on Chinese rockets. Not only did he move control over such decisions from the more security-focused State Department to the Commerce Department, but he intervened in a Justice Department investigation of Loral Space & Communications, retroactively enabling Loral to sell critical missile technology to the Chinese. Interestingly enough, Clintons decision was made at the request of Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz, whose earlier $1.3 million campaign donation made him the single biggest contributor to the Democratic election effort.
The result, as stated eloquently by syndicated columnist Linda Bowles, was that the Democrats got money from satellite companies and from Chinese communists; China got supercomputors, advanced production equipment and missile technology; Loral got its satellites launched at bargain basement prices . . . and the transfer of sensitive missile technology gave China [for the first time] the capability of depositing bombs on American cities. Incidentally, Loral ultimately failed to benefit from this permanent injury to Americas security interests: in July 2003, the company filed for bankruptcy protection, and in order to raise cash was forced to sell its most profitable business a fleet of communications satellites orbiting over North America.
3) On two occasions, Clinton used military action for the specific purpose of distracting the American public from the fallout of the Lewinsky affair:
On August 20, three days after Clinton finally admitted publicly to the Lewinsky affair, the news media was poised to focus on that days grand jury testimony by Monica Lewinsky. That same morning, Clinton personally went on national television to gravely announce his bombing of a Sudanese chemical weapons factory, and a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan. It was the first time most Americans ever heard the name of Osama bin Laden. The factory bombing in Sudan killed an innocent night watchman, but accomplished little else. It later was proven that the plant was making badly needed pharmaceuticals for people in that poverty-stricken part of the world, but no chemical weapons.
Several months later, the U.S. Center for Nonproliferation Studies, part of the Monterey Institute of International Studies, stated: "...the evidence indicates that the facility had no role whatsoever in chemical weapons development." Kroll Associates, one of the world's most reputable investigative firms, also confirmed that there was no link in any way between the plant and any terrorist organization. As for the Afghanistan bombing, it failed to do any damage at all to bin Laden or his organization. Clintons action was accurately characterized by George W. Bush when he said right after 9-11: "When I take action, Im not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt.
Clintons pointless and murderous military actions did not make Americans safer that day, although they did destroy an innocent life, and for all the good they did certainly could have been delayed in any case. But they did succeed in diverting media attention from Lewinskys grand jury testimony for a 24-hour news cycle, which was the main point. So I guess, they werent a total loss.
On December 16, 1998, on the eve of the scheduled House vote on his impeachment, Bill Clinton launched a surprise bombing attack on Baghdad. As justification for this exploit, he cited the urgent threat that Saddams weapons of mass destruction posed to America, and the need for immediate action. Almost immediately, the House Democrats held a caucus and emerged calling for a delay in the impeachment proceedings. House minority leader Dick Gephardt made a statement: "We obviously should pass a resolution by saying that we stand behind the troops. I would hope that we do not take up impeachment until the hostilities have completely ended."
Conveniently, a delay so near the end of the House term would have caused the vote to be taken up in the next session when the newly elected House membership would be seated with more Democratic representation, thereby improving Clintons chances of dodging impeachment.
The Republicans did, in fact, agree to delay the hearings, but only for a day or two. Amazingly, Clinton ended the bombing raid after only 70 hours -- once it became clear that in spite of the brief delay, the vote would still be held in the current session.
Once the bombing stopped, Clinton touted the effectiveness and importance of the mission. As reported by ABC News : We have inflicted significant damage on Saddam's weapons of mass destruction programs, on the command structures that direct and protect that capability, and on his military and security infrastructure, he said. Defense secretary William Cohen echoed the point: We estimate that Saddam's missile program has been set back by at least a year.
Whether or not one buys Clintons assessment of that mission, it is difficult to believe that its timing was so critical that it required commencement virtually at the moment the House was scheduled to vote on the impeachment. I think the most reasonable conclusion is that Clinton cynically deployed US military assets and placed military personnel in harms way for purely political reasons.
4) Clintons reckless sexual behavior was a threat to American national security:
Clinton and his supporters have been very effective in persuading large numbers of Americans that the Lewinsky scandal was only about sex. But I see a bigger issue here, because Clinton is on record as saying that he would have done anything to keep knowledge of the Lewinsky affair from becoming public.
To me, that statement raises a very serious question: What if, instead of sending her recorded Lewinsky conversations to Ken Starr, Linda Tripp had instead secretly offered them for sale, say, to the Chinese government? Or to the Russians? Or even to agents of Saddam?
What kind of blackmail leverage would those tapes have provided to a foreign government in dealing with America on sensitive trade, security or military issues? One of the few things Clinton ever said that I believe is that he would have done anything to keep the Lewinsky affair secret. Given his demonstrated track record of selling out American interests for personal or political gain (and there are more examples that I could have cited here), how far would he have gone in compromising Americas real interests in order to protect his own neck when threatened with blackmail?
Pretty far, I believe. Equally distressing is the prospect Clinton might, in fact, have succumbed to foreign black mail on other occasions in order to hide different sexual episodes that ultimately did not become public. There is no way to know, of course, but I prefer presidents for whom such a scenario is not a plausible possibility.
And dont even get me started on the war crime in Kosovo.
During Bill Clintons 1999 NATO-led war in Kosovo which according to some estimates cost as much as $75 billion we bombed Belgrade for 78 days, killed almost 3,000 civilians, and shredded the civilian infrastructure (including every bridge across the Danube.)
We devastated the environment, bombed the Chinese embassy, came very close to engaging in armed combat against Russian forces, and in general, pursued a horrific and inhumane strategy to rain misery on the civilian population of Belgrade in order to pressure Milosevic into surrendering.
Why did we do all that? The US did not even have an arguable interest in the Balkans, and no one ever tried to claim that Serbia represented any kind of threat to our nation or our interests.
But for months the Clinton administration had told us that Milosevic was waging a vicious genocide against Albanian Muslims, and needed to be stopped. The New York Times called it a humanitarian war. In March 1999 the same month that the bombing started Clintons State Department publicly suggested that as many as 500,000 Albanian Kosovars had been murdered by Milosevics regime. In May of that year, as the bombing campaign was drawing to a close, Secretary of Defense William Cohen lowered that estimate 100,000.
Five years after the bombing, after all the forensic investigations had been completed, the prosecutors at Milosevics War Crimes trial in the Hague were barely been able to document a questionable figure of perhaps 5,000 bodies and body parts. During the war, the American people were told that Kosovo was full of mass graves filled with the bodies of murdered Albanian Muslims. But none were ever found.
During the election cycle of 1992, George H.W. Bush lost his job after Bill Clinton hammered him relentlessly for having caused the worst economy of the last 50 years.
In fact, as CNNs Brooke Jackson has reported: Three days before Christmas 1992, the National Bureau of Economic Research finally issued its official proclamation that the recession had ended 21 months earlier. What became the longest boom in U.S. history actually began nearly two years before Clinton took office. See (See http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/31/jackson.recession.primer.otsc/).
By the same token, Clinton is generally perceived as having a stellar economic record during his own presidency, in spite of the fact that the economy was already starting to decline during the last year of his term after the stock market crashed in March 2000.
According to a report by MSNBC: The longest economic expansion in U.S. history faltered so much in the summer of 2000 that business output actually contracted for one quarter, the government said Wednesday in releasing a comprehensive revision of the gross domestic product. Based on new data, the Commerce Department said that the GDP the countrys total output of goods and services shrank by 0.5 percent at an annual rate in the July-September quarter of 2000. See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3676690/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/gdp-figures-revised-downward/.
Personally, I would scrounge up every dime I could get, buy a whole lotta beer and water, and go wait in a very long line.
He says that like she wouldn't anyway.
If Klein's account is to be believed, does Bill know something? Have his doctors given him reason to think he may not be around in 2016?
Right now I'm picturing in my head that raucous Iranian funeral procession for some dead Ayatolla just at the moment when the jostling crowd knocks the stiff out of the casket.
And out rolls "Bill"!
Well, she did it with Vince Foster...Ron Brown...Chris Stephens...
He is likely right about a few million votes but, actually, I think it would be just the opposite. Some may be inclined to vote for the Hildebeast 'cause they assume Bill would be around to shore her up. If that isn't the case, those votes are up for grabs.
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Westminster Maryland Online by Kevin Earl Dayhoff: Runner, writer, artist, fire and police chaplain Mindless ramblings of a runner, journalist, and artist The art of community - the communities of Westminster, Hampstead, Manchester, Taneytown, Union Bridge, Mount Airy and Sykesville in Carroll Co, Maryland... and Frederick Co. Firefighters, police officers, Carroll Co Sheriff's Office, Md St Police. Chaplain duties, Religion, Grace Lutheran Ch.
Sunday, November 27, 2016
Apple crisp, ice cream, friends, and family for dessert after church
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What you (yes, YOU) can do
to Stand with Planned Parenthood
If you've already read this guide, you can skip to this week's action
Questions, thoughts, ideas? Email us at firstname.lastname@example.com.
What's happening right now:
It's real, folks. Extremists in Congress are doing everything they can to block millions of patients from accessing birth control, cancer screenings, and other care at Planned Parenthood, hitting low-income folks and people of color the hardest.
This is a sweeping attack on our bodies and our rights. Here's what you need to know:
- What exactly is at stake? It's Medicaid reimbursements, which cover basic health care things like cancer screenings, STD testing and treatment, and birth control.
- Blocking people from access to this care could result in increased rates of STDs, cancer deaths and unintended pregnancies.
- People of color, people who earn low incomes and rural folks will be most affected, as these folks already face barriers to health care and may have no other options.
We've faced threats before, but nothing even remotely this serious. THIS IS HAPPENING NOW, and even with our recent victory stopping the disastrous Obamacare repeal bill in Congress, the extremists will try again — and win — if we don't get an unprecedented number of people to speak up loudly, over and over. The truth is that it may happen even if we do, but make no mistake: we CAN make our voices so loud that Congress has to listen. This document lays out clear steps YOU can take to help stop this nightmare scenario as a Planned Parenthood Defender.
What's in this guide
- Become a Defender
- A bit more background on exactly how we can win this
- Your recipe for action
Become a Defender
If you haven't already done so, the most effective way to help is to become a Planned Parenthood Defender – a member of a core group of supporters who have raised their hands and said they'll give their time to amplify this movement when it's most needed.
This document outlines ways you can maximize your impact as a Defender, so make sure we've got your digits to keep you updated as urgent developments happen!
But wait. Can we actually win? How?
Even with our recent victory stopping the disastrous Obamacare repeal bill in Congress, the extremists will try again, and the U.S. Senate may only need 51 votes to "defund" Planned Parenthood. Those are tough odds, but we already have nearly half the Senate on our side. That means if we can get a few more senators stand with us, we WILL win.
Let's get real: Moving those senators is no easy task. But remember, if members of Congress pass this legislation, it means stripping women, men and young people in their own home states of health care they need. Poll after poll shows a strong majority of Americans oppose lawmakers' attempts to block patients from getting care at Planned Parenthood. WE CAN WIN THIS if we show these Senators the truth: Voters do not want Planned Parenthood attacked.
That's where YOU come in. We've seen an outpouring of support, letters, calls, volunteers, and donations since November. Together we made 25,000 calls to Paul Ryan in a week! We STOPPED the Republican's devastating health care bill in the House. We are a force to be reckoned with. We'll help you:
- Get more letters and calls to Congress than lawmakers had imagined possible.
- Keep making all that noise over and over at key moments, not just once.
- Win the media and social media wars, and get friends and family to join you.
But what if all my state's members of Congress support Planned Parenthood? It's still SO DARN IMPORTANT that you speak out! We need our most vocal champions in Congress to be even bolder, and we need to defend them publicly from the vicious political attacks they're experiencing on the Hill and online. We need to fight to expand care in friendly states to offset the cutbacks elsewhere. We'll also need YOU to help activate Planned Parenthood supporters in other states.
So – wherever you live – can you spare some time for something that will help millions of people who depend on Planned Parenthood's care in their daily lives? If so, read on for a step-by-step list of specific things YOU can do to help win this fight.
Before you start: Can you join us in person?
We're holding regular events all across the country from community meetings to marches and rallies. Find your closest event and start getting involved.
Step 1: Two things you can do right this minute to get started
First, share this emergency guide on social media right now. The more your friends see you actually DOING something about the issues you care about, the more they'll do. It really helps spread your message if you tag a few friends who'd be most interested.
Second, take two minutes to act: Call Congress and tell them to stop any attempts to block patients from getting care at Planned Parenthood. If your Senator's voicemail boxes are full, or you have trouble getting through repeatedly, contact them another way. And, if you haven't already, join over 750,000 people (and counting) and sign our letter to Congress.
OK, now we're ready to really dive in.
Step 2: Host an emergency meetup
Simply put, this is the first and most important thing you can do as a Defender. (Sign up now if you aren't a Defender already.)
What's an emergency meetup? It's a few people getting together to take action for reproductive rights. You can host a small one just for your friends, or you can make it public. Do it at home, at a coffee shop, in your dorm room, at your student center, your church. Or piggyback on an existing meeting of a book club or a campus group. Whatever will help you follow through.
What do I have to do? Simple: Send out an invite to your friends, then download or print our meetup guide – pretty much zero prep. You could literally host one tonight. You'll get together, meet and greet for a few minutes, then get down to our current top action for maybe half an hour. Then (but this is totally optional), you'll most likely hang out, gossip, tell some stories and drink some beverages for a while before you all have a big group hug and make plans for the next one. Just kidding about the hug. Sorta.
If people want more – and in our experience, they almost always do! – consider holding one meetup per week. We'll have a new top action every week on whatever's most important right then.
Not into hosting a meetup? Totally cool. Just skip down to Step 3 for more ways to help.
Ready to go? Invite your friends! Decide whether you want to keep it private or open it up to other Planned Parenthood supporters who live near you.
- For a private meetup: Here's some sample text you can use in an email or a Facebook invite.
- For a public meetup: Use PP's event tool so we can invite others near you.
- Then, after you've created your event, create a Facebook event to help promote it to even more people. Here's how to create an event on Facebook.
On the day of your meeting: Print one copy of this two-page meetup guide, or just pull it up on your phone or laptop.
After your meeting: Fill out this form to help us count all these events and give us any feedback or ideas that might help others!
This week's action: Pink Out the internet
Pink Out Day is time for reproductive rights supporters to show their defiance against the relentless attacks on Planned Parenthood. It's a day to show anti-women's health politicians that we will fight like hell to protect 2.5 million patients a year and the 1 in 5 women that will go to Planned Parenthood in her life. It's a day for people to unite and say: We resist. We are strong. And we're not backing down — not today, not ever.
So on March 29, we'll be turning the internet pink
Here's what you can do THIS WEEK to help:
- Go to our #PinkOut page and participate
- Join the Thunderclap
- Change your profile picture
- Wear pink: check out the store
- Post a #PinkOut selfie on social media
- RSVP for Pink Out Day on Facebook
If you've already completed this action, feel free to choose an action for your meetup from the list below.
Step 3: A bunch of other simple actions you can take
Click the links below to jump directly to a description of each action in the document.
- Reach out twice: Once to friends in key states, once to Trump supporters you know
- Plan a visit to your senator's local office
- Send personal, snail mail letters to Congress
- Show up at your member of Congress's events
- Call a local radio show or write a letter to the editor
- Help build our power on campuses nationwide – even if you're not in college!
- One-minute actions you can take on your own, anytime
Reach out twice: once to friends in key states, once to Trump supporters you know.
Here are TWO ways to reach out to important groups of people.
First: Send a message to friends who live in key states and ask them to make a quick call to Congress. Click these links to see what Facebook friends you have in states like Indiana, Alaska, Arizona, Maine, Nevada, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Ohio, or Michigan. As you know, it's incredibly important that we get these folks involved. (If you're not on Facebook, just email the message below to any friends or family in states like these.)
If you're on your phone, tap next to each person's name to send them a message, If you're on your computer, click the down arrow and "Send message":
Here's a sample message you can use:
Hey -- hope you're good! I'm writing because of where you live. As you may know, one of your U.S. senators may end up being a key vote as Congress attempts to block millions of people from getting care at Planned Parenthood. I'm a big fan of PP, and if you haven't already, I hope you'll call the Senate to tell them to protect PP health centers: https://www.IStandWithPP.org/call
Next up: Did you know a recent poll showed that nearly half of Trump voters support Planned Parenthood? Reach out by email or social media to folks who may have voted for Trump, and send them a link to share their story at http://ppact.io/2hPjMyd. Here's a sample message you can use:
I just found out half of Trump voters don't want anyone restricted from visiting Planned Parenthood, and I hope more of them will speak out to stop Congress from blocking millions of people from care at Planned Parenthood health centers. This bill doesn't have anything to do with abortion at all, just prevents people from getting routine care like cancer screenings and birth control. I feel like we can all agree that's a bad idea. I hope you'll share your story and then help speak out in support of Planned Parenthood at http://ppact.io/2hPjMyd.
Plan a visit to your senator's local office
One of the most effective ways to show your members of Congress you care is to actually show up at their office. U.S. Senators have local offices, and their staff are assigned to meet with constituents, which they do on a daily basis. Planning a lobby visit is easy, and you can do it as many times as you're able with as many people as you can gather. The more, the better – there is power in numbers!
- Get at least three people from your emergency meetup to commit to visiting your senator's office with you when Congress isn't in session and lawmakers return to their state offices. If you need advice on which of your two senators to pick, shoot us an email.
- Whip out your calendars and pick a few time slots that would work for everyone.
- Call your target office (you can find the number here) and ask when someone would be available to meet with your group. Ask if the senator will be in the state office anytime soon, on a short trip or during a recess, and try to go at a time when they'll be around – you just might get some face time! If that isn't possible, set up a meeting with a staffer.
- Prepare what you're going to say. You don't have to be an expert. Lawmakers don't expect that. Personal stories can be even more effective than statistics (though you can get talking points here). Talk about what Planned Parenthood means to you, and back up your personal story with some facts about your state if possible (find your state's Planned Parenthood Action Fund site here).
- Bring your materials. Print three copies EACH of this fact sheet to leave behind. Be early, be courteous, be positive, and be succinct. Don't forget to take some pictures of your group inside or outside the office!
- Report back on how your meeting went by emailing us. Post your photos on social media with the hashtag #IstandwithPP.
Send personal, snail mail letters to Congress
It might seem old-fashioned, but it's a lot more work to write and mail a paper letter as compared to an email – and your members of Congress know it! That's why they pay more attention to mailed letters. When they rip that thing open, they know you really, seriously care.
If you're doing this at an emergency meetup, here's what you'll need:
- Pens
- Paper
- 3 envelopes per person and 3 stamps per person
- A few copies of the sample things to say for letters
- The mailing addresses of your members of Congress
Each guest will write three letters: one to their U.S. representative and one to each of their U.S. senators.
We've provided some sample ideas here, but it's really important that everyone write in their own voice as much as possible. Start your letter out with a sentence or two about why YOU care about Planned Parenthood and reproductive freedom – that's the most important message to get through.
Not sure who your members of Congress are or what their mailing address is? Look them up.
We urge everyone to write, address and stamp their letters at the meetup. Have one designated person whose job it is to collect and mail all of the letters.
Show up at your member of Congress's events
Every member of congress hosts town halls, constituent meetings, and other public events. These events are free to attend, and are a great opportunity to show strength and support for Planned Parenthood. And it's just as important for us to show up for friendly lawmakers as for swing votes or anti-choice extremists.
Find out who your member of congress is, then check out their website, Facebook, or Twitter, or this crowdsourced guide for information on their public events. If nothing is listed on their site, call the district office. If no events are planned for the immediate future, set a reminder on your calendar to call each week.
Before you organize an event, see if someone else has already planned an event nearby that your group could join up with.
When you're headed to an event, a few tips:
- Be ready to ask a question if there's a Q&A session or meet-and-greet line. Keep it short and to the point. Research where they stand on Planned Parenthood before you ask, and if possible, use their words.
- The senator will probably try to dodge the question. Ask for a follow-up. Make them answer the question you originally asked. Don't let them wriggle out of it!
- If it's a seated event, sit near the front. It makes it more likely you'll get called on to ask a question.
- Be firm but courteous. If you're in a seated indoor event, don't yell, no matter how angry you feel. We're all for yelling at rallies and marches, though!
- If it's a more public event with no questions, like a public speech or rally, be sure to PINK OUT! Wear some Planned Parenthood gear to show your pride.
- Give materials to the Senator or their staff. Print three copies EACH of this fact sheet to leave behind. If your Senator doesn't have any events planned, you can also just drop off the materials at their closest office.
- Report back on how your event went by emailing us. Post your photos on social media with the hashtag #IstandwithPP.
Talking points for your questions can be found here.
Call a local radio show or write a letter to the editor
Most local newspapers publish letters from readers. In addition, local radio call-in shows are a great way to share your concerns with the community.
- Do your research.
- Check out the websites for local papers or radio stations to identify opportunities where you can make your voice heard. For the paper, look for the option to send a letter to the editor. For radio stations, call the station to find out if there are any upcoming programs that accept call-ins.
- Editors of local papers typically prefer letter submissions that tie back to something that has already been published, such as an article or other opinion piece, so keep your eyes open for articles about Planned Parenthood or reproductive health that you can respond to!
- Check out our talking points and read some powerful stories here.
- Craft your message.
- If you're calling into a radio station, have a room-temperature glass of water on hand, and bullet out your speaking points ahead of time so that when you get nervous (it happens to everyone!) you can still make your points.
- If you're writing a letter to the editor, research the length requirements. Often, the letters that the paper accepts and goes on to publish are short – sometimes less than 200 words – so keep it brief and make a strong argument that includes a local story or statistics, if you have them available.
- Make contact.
- Once your letter has been written, have it proofread by a friend or two before you submit or send it in. They can catch mistakes that you might not have otherwise seen.
- If you're calling into a show, make sure you introduce yourself and make a personal case for why you're calling into that particular program. Try to be yourself!
- If you're calling into a program designed to create discussion, such as those on local NPR stations, tell people who came to your meeting when and where to listen, and ask them to be prepared to call in to reinforce the message.
- Report back how it went.
- Let us know at email@example.com if your letter is published online, and post it on social media so others can read and share.
- If you called into a radio station and made it on the air, see if the stream is archived on their website and share that on social media.
- Call in again at a later date, write to other papers, and continue spreading the message!
Help build our power on campuses nationwide — even if you're not in college!
Whether you're in college, have a bunch of friends in college, or are long past college, there's something really important you can do to build Planned Parenthood's power. Send an email encouraging college students to join the Planned Parenthood Generation Action network – a nationwide network of activists who raise awareness about reproductive health and rights and help other students become advocates in an inclusive and open environment.
(If you're not in college, think about your friends' kids, your younger cousins, neighbors, nieces – all of those energetic, motivated do-gooders are powerful voices in this fight.)
Here's some sample copy. Be sure to make it personal! Share your OWN reasons to support Planned Parenthood and fight for reproductive rights.
Hey, just wanted to reach out and spread the word about an amazing program called Planned Parenthood Generation Action. Basically it's a radically inclusive group of activists on college campuses, fighting not just for reproductive rights and sexual health and education, but to create lasting change in their communities. The work they're doing right now to defend Planned Parenthood is so urgent. You should link up with them: https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/communities/planned-parenthood-generation-action
1-minute actions you can take on your own, anytime
Here are a few simple ways people can get involved with this fight. Do them and share them on social media and help us get bigger, louder, and stronger!
- Call Congress, call again, and keep on calling: https://www.istandwithpp.org/call
- Tweet your Women's March photo to your members of Congress. We've got a sample tweet and a handy tool to find your members on Twitter — even a photo you can use if you don't have one.
- Change your profile pic on social media: http://twibbon.com/support/istandwithpp-2
- Read and share stories of how Planned Parenthood has changed lives.
- Share your story about why Planned Parenthood services matter to you.
- Buy some #IStandWithPP clothing and accessories – proceeds support the cause!
- Read and share our explainer: Defund Defined
- Follow us! On Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tumblr, and Snapchat.
- Sign up to volunteer for Planned Parenthood! http://ppact.io/2j5QjCn
OK, OK, I'm doing my part! What else is Planned Parenthood doing?
Right now, Planned Parenthood and advocates across the country are engaged in a complex, multifaceted campaign to protect reproductive rights and ensure access to health care. Here are a few things you might be interested in:
350+ events nationwide. We're holding emergency community meetings, marches, and rallies EVERYWHERE. Find your closest event and start getting involved.
The Women's March on Washington. Planned Parenthood was proud to be a sponsor of the biggest inauguration demonstration in the country.
Showing that voters of every stripe support Planned Parenthood.
A strong majority of people in this country support Planned Parenthood – rural, city-dwelling, Black, brown, white, low-income, high-income and everything in between – including half of Trump voters. We're working to lift up the voices of this majority and show just how out-of-touch extremists are with the will of the American people, even within their own party.And, of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg. We're organizing lobby visits, speaking out in the media, and mobilizing experts across the political spectrum. We're putting the voices of the most marginalized communities front and center, since they'll be hit first and worst by this. (Be sure to follow @Latinos4PP and @PPBlackComm on Twitter.)
And through it all, Planned Parenthood continues to provide the care that this fight is all about. Planned Parenthood health centers have seen a rush of new appointment requests since the election, and their staff are busy providing compassionate care and expertise to anyone who walks through their doors. No matter what.
With your help, we will help make sure Planned Parenthood keeps doing just that, for generations to come.
Thank you for being a part of this fight. Thank you for never giving up.


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text: Winnipeg Loses To St. Paul Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada / 680 CJOB - Winnipeg's News & Information Leader Joanne Cochrane Posted: June 17, 2016 10:48 pm WINNIPEG-The Winnipeg Goldeyes had beautiful weather for game one of a new series with St.Paul. Unfortunately the fish didn't pull out a win, losing 5-4 to the Saints. Game two in the series is at 6:05pm Saturday at Shaw Park in downtown Winnipeg.


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Wednesday, January 6, 2010
Clothespin Dolls
I found this tutorial for making clothespin dolls and wanted to try it!
I made 3 for my daughter's 3rd birthday and some for my nieces as well. I placed a candle in each dolls hand for her to blow out. They were pretty simple to make.You can find all the materials in your own stash at home and at your local craft store. The only suggestion I would make to the tutorial is to glue the dress to the back of the neck of the doll and glue the ribbon to her dress as well.
clothespin doll,
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text: The Wedding Ring Sets On Finger also develop 12 months by year. If the old folks find only gold, silver, platinum ring, now folks simply find the blended material ring. Such because the blended ring between gold and platinum, or other material. The wedding ring designers find that the blended material is as good as the unique material. Many people ask the designer to design and make them a ravishing wedding ceremony ring. They might carry their own design and choose what material that they want in their ring. Generally, there are some bride and groom put their blood inside their wedding ceremony rings. It is the symbol of everlasting life for each of them. The material needs completely different time, worth, and value, it is determined by the load of the ring and in addition the design of the ring.


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