text:
Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Strawberry301, Feb 11, 2010.
...if the 14 years minimum for JGP would not be voted at Congress
Zawadzki and Imai might be competing on the senior circuit in the coming season, that's what I was more thinking. Plus if Shelepen, Ovcharova, Agafonova, and Birukova stay another season on the JGP they'd be likely to make the final as well, and then it really could be a Russian sweep. And then there's cute little Roza .
Baga is very good but prone to meltdowns in the FS, Gao will compete on the senior circuit, Kawamura has lost most of her triples, Maxwell if she's not injured will likely compete senior so we shall see. Also, I don't get this hype about Imai, she was 16th at Junior Worlds last year and didn't seem that great as far as I could tell this season. The Fujisawa girl is much better than her IMO.
I'm hoping Jiang and Cesario get JGP assignments in the coming season, they are very nice skaters and I think they could do well if the lack of reputation doesn't hurt them.
that's no good. Still, I really can't picture someone like Shelepen or Ovcharova ever being like heavy, they look like the kind of girls who will stay thin as adults, for those two the height may be more of an issue though, apparently they both grew like 6 cm in the past year!
While Zawadzki may do the SGP, I'm starting to think Tom Zakrajsek will want her to get some JGP experience first. I think she would be totally competitive in the senior ranks, but Tom doesn't seem like the type of coach to throw his skaters into situations before he feels they are ready.
I think Shelepen will be on the SGP, as she has already medaled on the JGP and at the Final. Ovcharova has skary jump technique and doesn't appear to be the strongest competitor...it's a little premature to be anointing her. Based on the clip posted earlier in this thread, Sheveleva doesn't seem to have the greatest speed or jump technique (her flip particularly). She may be in danger of even getting an initial JGP assignment based on the strength of the Russian junior ladies.
Baga did extremely well in her two JGP events last season. Yes, she had issues at the Final -- her first major ISU event -- but she regrouped nicely at Junior Worlds with a fantastic free skate. Kawamura is a non-factor; she won't be getting a JGP assignment anyway, and I doubt Maxwell will either.
Lack of reputation? They, just like Tuktamysheva and Sotnikova, have never been on the JGP so it's not a surprise that they aren't established with the international judges. Cesario and Jiang have a little international experience in winning their events at Gardena last week, but I can't imagine they wouldn't be rewarded if they skate up to their potential on the JGP. Baga had never competed internationally before last season and she won two gold medals. I don't think it will be a problem for them if they skate well.
See, that's why I would rather claw my eyes out than watch skating with American commentary.
I don't think lack of reputation will hurt anyone, but Jiang only has 3 triples (T, S, Lo), and they are not very consistent. Siraj, despite finishing 2nd to Jiang, has shown more promise, I think, and has a 3F. Cesario's lovely, but very prone to downgrades. If they all skate clean, I can't see them beating Sotnikova or Tuktamysheva based on what they've shown so far.
I can't, either, but the notion that their "lack of reputation" will hurt them is ridiculous (which is what I was getting to in the original post, but perhaps didn't word well).
We agree then Didn't hurt Baga, or you know, Yu-Na Kim some years ago
I agree, but if Agnes really wants to do the SGP, I don't see Tom convincing her out of it.
I agree about Shelepen.
I think you're assessment of Ovcharova is unfair. Yes, she is not the most consistent but she is certainly no worse of a competitor than the likes of Baga, Agafonova, and all the other girls from Russia. She made it to the JGPF as a 13 year old so clearly she has promise, plus her PCS are always among the top at junior events. She won the silver medal at the junior nationals in a deep field, defeating skaters like Shelepen, Tuktamysheva, and Sotnikova. She also won the SP at Junior Worlds with an impressive score of nearly 60 points, receiving +GOE for all her jumps. Her technique seems to be greatly improved since JGP Budapest this fall and I'm sure she will continue to work on it. Clearly the judges think she has a lot of promise so I would not be so quick to write her off - had she delivered a clean LP at Junior Worlds she likely would have won the event, given her scores in the SP. Also, why would the judges give her such a high score if she wasn't a good skater? I think she is blossoming into a great skater and she is so young that she has time to work on her consistency to become a stronger competitor.
You're right about Sheveleva, but I think a lot will depend on if Agafonova, Ovcharova, and Birukova move up to seniors this season or not. You didn't mention Agafonova or Birukova in your post, thoughts on those two?
Baga had issues at the final and at nationals and in the SP at Junior Worlds. I'm not saying she's a terrible competitor but she's about as inconsistent as most of the other girls. I agree about Kawamura but I don't know what the deal with Maxwell is where she didn't compete at nationals (it's a shame she didn't, she probably would have done quite well given how poorly Alissa and Caroline skated) so I don't know how the USFSA deals with stuff like that.
True, I guess I didn't really think of that, I just assumed people knew about Liza and Adelina because they have done so well in Russia. Cesario seems to be improving her URs and if she can continue to do that she could be a factor. Jiang seems more consistent than a lot of the other juniors which might come in handy.
That is a big if, Sotinkova has been averaging about 3 falls in her FS this entire season. When she is on, she's great, but she fell 4 times in her FS at junior nationals so I have to think something is up. Puberty maybe, so hopefully she can overcome it soon, but if it's due to injury that could make it more difficult.
Anna has not been as consistent all season as the 2 Polina's, Murakami, or even Christina Gao. I dont know if it is all being a headcase or her jump technique problems but she is the only one of the top juniors who never seems to close to a clean long program.
I think the problem is that her jump technique, while bad, is even worse in pressure-filled situations. I think she's a better skater than Shelepen and Agafonova, but her jumps aren't as nice as theirs. Perhaps some of this is due to the fact that she (Ovcharova) isn't as "stick like" as the two Polina's. It will certainly be interesting to see which of the Russian babies are able to deal with puberty the best.
Well, she beat Christina Gao in the SP and FS at the JGP Poland, and Kiri in the SP and FS at the JGPF, and beat both of them overall at Jr Worlds. And she did almost a perfect LP at the Russian Junior Nationals where she landed 6 triples (2 lutzes, 2 flips - all with no edge calls)and only stepped out of one jump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_EytmJFwk . Maybe not the most asthetically pleasing jumps but they were all rotated and landed and she got a big score of 109+, winning the FS at that event. Also, Anna's not close to clean LPs still always score about 90 points, which on the junior ranks is pretty decent.
I think that may be true. It does look like the jumps have at least improved though, even though they still are not ideal in their asthetics/technique. She does have good speed though and no edge issues which I think saves her. Even when she makes mistakes in her LPs, her score is not that low compared to the other girls because her PCS, spins, spirals, footwork, and performance are superior, in addition to her lack of edge issues and tendency to fully rotate her jumps, even when she falls.
I actually think some of Anna's issues in the LP are puberty based because it looks like she is going through puberty now whereas the Polina's have not yet started puberty. The other thing is that Anna has only gotten most of her triple jumps recently. Last season she only had 2 triples I think and that's why she was so far down in the standings at Jr Nationals. So the combination of learning new jumps while adjusting to a new body is bound to make it a bit difficult, and that may be what she's going through now. The thing is though, she's managing to do well for herself and improve regardless, so in the future when the other girls are fighting their puberty woes, Anna may be fully adjusted to her new body and be able to pull ahead. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it does look like she'll be finished with the dreaded puberty days before most of the others, and having those rough experience while competing on the junior circuit will tarnish her reputation less than having it happen on the senior ranks (like what happened to Mirai and Caroline). If she does another year on the JGP, then when she moves up to seniors she will only be 15 and likely adjusted to her body whereas I think Shelepen will have to battle puberty while on the senior ranks.
In the hypothetical she skated cleanly she probably be beating any of the current Juniors other than possibly Murakami so just because she sometimes beats Gao or Kiri doesnt prove at all she is being consistent. Those are skaters she would beat all the time at this point if she werent the most inconsistent of all the top juniors probably. Kiri is also inconsistent and would be beating Gao easily if she werent as her PCS are higher from the judges even for flawed performances. Kostner and Nagasu often beat Flatt, I wouldnt say that means they are more consistent skaters than Flatt.
I did not see her Russian Nationals LP until now. However she was only 8th in the short so she must have really bombed that.
I think that Agafonova's skating might improve though. People who saw her at Junior Worlds said that she's not slow, but its just she's so tiny that it takes a lot of effort to make it accross the ice. Her skating might improve if she grows a little bit (as long as she doesn't lose her jumps)
Honestly I think it will be easier for the two Polina's to improve the rest of their skating than it will be for Anna to improve her jumps, and the two Polina's were even beating her regularly this season. Who knows for sure though. The Russians have so many young skaters coming up, and some even more highly regarded ones (at the moment) entering juniors next season, it will be fascinating to see the road all of them take and which ones end up on the Sochi team. I presume they will have 3 spots by then, it would be very dissapointing for them if they didnt.
Ovcharova's jumping technique is terrible but I am really hoping she can fix it (she's improved it already somewhat since the start of the season, as has been noted already).
She is by far the most interesting skater out of all the "babies" IMO. She is really perky, has tons of character on the ice and very good basics. A strong all-round skater. Just add better jumps to the mix and you have all you could ask for.
I agree that she and Kiri and fairly comparable in that jumping is not their strong suit, sometimes they have problems in the LP, and their PCS and everything else help them stay high in the standings. In reality though, most of the junior ladies aren't that consistent with the exception of Kanako and Shelepen earlier in the season, though recently she seems to be having a lot of issues in the SP.
As for Agafonova, she is not exactly consistent either. She didn't qualify for the JGPF because she bombed at one of her events and only finished 10th at Russian Nationals, where Anna had two solid performances and finished 5th.
Anna's SP at the Junior Nationals she didn't bomb, she just had issues on her combination (stepped out of it). The scores were all really close and that's why she was 8th, her SP score was like 54 so it wasn't that bad.
I agree that Kiri and Anna could probably beat most of the other girls if they were more consistent, but I think they are both going through some growing pains currently and that may be part of the reason for it. They are the most complete skaters of the junior ladies IMO, they just need to be better about landing the jumps.
I agree. I think what she really needs is to learn how to do a toeloop in combination. Sounds crazy but I actually think that is part of the problem. For all her combination jumps she tacks on 2lo, and in order to rotate those jumps without the assistance of her free leg she torques her body a lot and really uses her arms to get around. Also, if the landing on the first jump isn't quite right, she is forced to do a 3-turn before going into the second jumps. In her 2 jump combos she seems to have gotten much better, but in the 3 jump combo it's hard to do two 2lo in a row if you're technique and flow aren't spot on.
I don't know how hard technique is to fix, but one thing that does make her situation different from someone like Caroline Zhang or Alissa Czisny is that he carries a lot of speed across the ice. Her edge takeoffs are also fine and she doesn't have any weird kick so really what I think she needs to work on is flow coming out of the jumps. Her 2a is good in this sense but that's likely because of the forward takeoff. Under-rotations also don't seem to be a big problem for her either except on the loop jump. Also, maybe she should take a break from attempting all of her jumps from such difficult transitions, I know she does that to get the PCS up but she should focus on the technique first. She definitely doesn't seem tentative which is also good because the speed and attack should help when she tries to rework her jumps.
There's an interview with her coach on the Russian skating website where she says next season she is really going to work with Anna on the LP. She says that in the coming season they will pick a LP that will highlight Anna's strengths so that she doesn't fire everything up only in the SP like she did most of this season, and work on doing more run-throughs so that Anna can become more consistent and comfortable with the jumps. I think that sounds like a good plan and hope it works. She was a nice surprise this season, I remember thinking her programs at JGP Budapest were really fun and as the season went on she got much better.
As for basic skating being easier to fix than jumps, it's likely the Polina's will have to fix their jumps once they go through puberty. Mirai didn't have bad technique as a little kid but Frank Carrrol said that in the past year he has had to reconstruct nearly all of Mirai's jump technique. Unless you have flawless technique (which neither Polinas do), chances are you have to rework it once your body changes. I honestly think some of Anna's struggles this season are due to physical changes rather than purely technique issues or being a headcase. Sotnikova and Baga have been having similar issues and Shelepen seems to be developing them too. Anna is 20cm taller than Agafonova so obviously it is harder for her to jump, and she also has a somewhat defined body shape unlike Shelepen who is still built like a little boy with no hips or shoulders, on the ice Anna actually doesn't look that different physically from a lot of the thinner senior ladies so she might be going through the rebuilding period of her jumps now.
Oh and about Liza, she looks about Agafonova's size judging from these pictures:
Alena is 5'3" and Ksenia 5'6" so Liza is well under 5 feet tall. I thought she was tall but she is still very, very tiny and may be a question mark in the future. Shelepen and Ovcharova are both taller than Leonova and therefore less worrisome, even if their jumps aren't as good, as Liza may grow the better part of a foot before she stops.
Both of Eliza's parents are reportedly short, so people don't think she's going to be that tall..
Yeah, but that could be an issue too. Elene Gedevanishvilli was really short and tiny at that age and then she didn't get much taller but filled out a lot and her jumps suffered. I remember her at the Olympics in 2006, doing 3f-3t like they were doubles and now she's so tentative with all her jumps.
I miss this Elene, she was thrilling.
I like Liza though so I hope puberty doesn't ruin her.
Aren't those podium pics, where Liza is a step below the other two?
No, in those pics they are all standing on the ice. Liza really is just that little. She might be okay though, but she certainly has a lot of growing ahead of her, I had no idea she was so tiny, she does a good job of looking tall on the ice.
Does anyone have a link to a video of Liza doing 3a on the ice? I heard she did it in a competition or at a competition practice, I really want to see it! Bet it's awesome.
I heard she did it on practice before her last competition and it was clean, but there is no video She tried it in her FS too, but it was a bad day for her, her axel was only single (and some other jumps too). By the way, Roza Sheveleva did really well there, beat Liza in FS and got bonus points (it means she did clean 3-3 or clean 3Lz and 3F with no edge calls which also impressive), so I think we will see her on the JGP next season
As for Elene, she is from Geogria. Most Georgian girls fill out a lot at this age, so it was predictable. And I don't think it will happen with Liza. Puberty will be the real test, yes, but she has perfect technique and maybe the best coach in the world when it comes to jumps, so I think she will be fine. I'm more worried about Adelina.
Yay Roza! She is just the cutest thing ever . Yeah I think she will get JGP assignments, especially if Shelepen and maybe Agafonova/Ovcharova/Birukova move up to the SGP. Anna got JGP assignments this season despite only finishing 16th at the Junior Nationals in 09 because she did well at some local Russian competitions at the end of the year. I agree about Liza, I think she will be ok, it was more just a surprised. I had assumed she was more the same height as Shelepen and Ovcharova but she clearly is not. She might just stay little even when she grows up though.
ITA about Adelina, so sad to see her struggle so much recently , she is so gorgeous out there but she just falls so much. She and Anna both skate at CSKA and neither seem to have ideal technique and both fall a lot, are the coaches at that club not known for teaching good technique to their skaters? Clearly they are good at other things though because Adelina and Anna both have great spins, stretch, and basic skating. Is the club Shelepen and Lipinskaya known to be better? I know that it is in Moscow too, and those girls seem to have better technique on the jumps and fall a lot less. Adelina's issue may just be that she is growing a lot though, so maybe by next season she'll be adjusted at least for awhile and be able to deliver more clean performances.
I just came across this picture, seems like Mishin REALLY wants Liza to be the next Irina, and believes she can do it. How cute.
Whoa and Adelina and Alena look like they could be sisters.
I wonder who the Kevin Reynolds almost look alike is-the blond hair one. But Elizaveta is right in the center! Next big hope for sure.
I don't know who it is but he really does look like Reynolds. Haha yeah Liza is front and center! Ksenia and Anna look sassy as usual.


text:
Archiving discussions from Current events.
Weeding out the stubs
We're almost at the wiki's five month anniversary, and I think it's time we started reducing the number of stubs on the wiki. We had kind of a frenzy of page creation in the first couple months. We've developed articles on a lot of those pages, but there's also a lot that we haven't. If you hit "Random page" a few times, you'll see that there's quite a few pages that have no content at all.
The worst offenders are the song categories -- especially Sesame Street Songs and Muppet Songs. There's over 750 pages in those categories, and I'd estimate that at least half of them have no content. They're either just a category tag, or just a category tag and a song box that lists the composer. That's a lot of stubs.
There's two possible ways to deal with this -- one is to try to get content to fill up all of those 300+ pages, and the other is to delete them. My proposal is to delete them for now. They can always be created again when somebody has the time to create real pages for them. Right now, they do nothing but junk up the wiki.
I also think we ought to work on a no-stubs guideline, where we discourage people from creating pages unless they have some content to put on them. We've done a lot of the infodumping, and I think it would be a good idea to build up the quality of the pages. What do other folks think? -- Danny (talk) 00:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm in full agreement. There's so many of them that it's misleading, thinking a page already exists, and hard to track them all down. Dinosaurs Characters is also full of them, though potentially easier to fill with the DVD out and with voice/episode info already linked to each (I've done a few but for now, I've sort of given up until I have time to buy the DVDs). I would suggest that semi-stub pages by spared or perhaps actually labeled as stubs. By that I mean pages with no real text yet but either images or a performer template, like Shivers the Penguin, Uncle Henry, Judy, or Treasure Island (location). In the case of some of the locations, for example, the images are useful and provide a starting point, and for something like Shivers, I created him based on info from a 1983 Caroll Spinney interview that identified him as a recurring puppet for Caroll but with no other info. In those cases, maybe the template you used for Sesame Street Magazine, asking for help turning them into real articles, would be useful? --Andrew, Andrew Leal (talk) 00:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- Nate, Danny's not using the Wikipedia definition. I believe he means pages with literally no text at all, just a category tag, *or* a song template but no info beyond that (the latter I'd argue could probably be salvaged, I guess it depends on how detailed the template is). I think for our purposes, even a simple declarative sentence, "Blank Song was performed on blank" or "So and so is the author of Elmo Goes to Munich" provides something to build on and isn't completely misleading, suggesting a page and information exists when it's just a blank void. --Andrew, Andrew Leal (talk) 01:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's partly why I'm bringing it up here, so we can figure out what the definition is. The obvious example are the pages where there's nothing but a category tag -- I agree that the Dinosaurs Characters category is full of those. I would also include pages that have just a category tag and one piece of information (like a song box with "Joe Raposo" in it).
- I think Andrew makes a good point about the stub pages being misleading. It could be very annoying for readers to click on a link, and find less information on the new page than on the page they just clicked from. I think if there isn't anything to say about a song, then maybe it shouldn't have a page. We could condense those pages right now, with the understanding that we could flesh them back out into their own pages once we have something to say about them. -- Danny (talk) 01:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- In that spirit, though probably one of the more harmless pages as it wasn't linked to anything, I deleted Shivers the Penguin for now, but made it a redlink on Caroll Spinney's page, where hopefully someone will notice it eventually and actually have any info on this mysterious recurring character (a Google search only turned up a claim that he was introduced in 2005, which either means the character was revived or there's two Shivers or who knows what). Though it also occurs to me that, for cases like that, where a stub would be created because simply nothing is known about the character save that he exists, maybe a Name That Puppet or Images Wanted type page would be useful eventually, to place requests for information or date checking and so forth. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:58, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- I agree about pages with only a category linked in them. They're pretty useless, but I would discourage against deleting them. Instead, it's a good oppurtunity to tag them as a stub so that the proper attention be brought to it. Meaning, the inclusion of either a description or composer details.
- However, I'm against deleting song pages that exist which have composer information in them. That's good information, and I strongly oppose removing good information from the wiki no matter how "little" it is. In these cases, if it's a description you're looking for, these may also be tagged as a stub so that someone else has the opportunity to come along and flesh it out. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 02:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thing is, would anyone really notice or use the stubs, apart from us maybe, anymore than Dead-end pages or Wanted pages? And is adding a stub tag to 400 pages an improvement? I agree with you entirely on the song pages of course (though I'm not sure a "written by Joe Raposo" offers even "little" useful information if the page is linked to from the list of composed songs on Joe Raposo's own page and thus is redundant, unless it at least has a date or record information ro something), and for that matter, things like episode guides where, even if stubs, they at least provide a listing, though for things like Aliens in the Family Episodes, which consists entirely of stubs without even air dates, I think some sort of marker is needed for the whole category. It just seems to me that things like Name That Puppet and Images Wanted have encouraged more community involvement and page fixing, especially the latter, than Things you can do, even if many gaps remain, because it provides a clear list in one place of specific tasks, rather than asking for generic info dumping or just a whole mass of stubs. Especially since to my mind, there's a distinction between stubs as in undeveloped pages, and stubs which are just blank. Such a page could thus be used for general article improvement for pages which have content but are under developed or poorly written, like the video release pages discussed earlier. I wouldn't have known that Marjory the Trash Heap needed help if Danny hadn't mentioned it here, for example, and though it still needs work in spots, it's a far more respectable and informative page now, in my opinion. --Andrew
- Well, that's what a stubs category does. It exists primarily to bring attention to pages that need work.
- All I'm saying is that it's the quick and easy way out to delete 400 pages when we have an oppurtunity to improve them. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 02:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- I guess what I'm doubting is that a stubs category for 400 pages really *does* bring attention, any more than Wanted pages does for the most part, apart from the handful of us who do check there, whereas there's a greater number of users who will create a page if they see a prominent red link on a pre-existing article. Wikipedia has pages which have been stubs for months or a year at times. It does make it easier to keep track of which pages are actually blank, but what if we as a community decide to start using it for one or two sentence pages? I guess if you do insist on the stub route, then I'd argue that it thus be used only for utterly content-less pages. I'm still doubtful that it would really work, though. --Andrew, Andrew Leal (talk) 02:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I think they could be deleted. Several times I've clicked on links or looked things up, only to find that there's a page with no information. If people actually know something about the subject of the article -- even if it's only song credits -- they can create the new article, but it's seems kind of pointless to have so many pages with nothing but category tags. -- Ryan (talk) 20:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
- I suggest that we (temporarily) delete pages that have no content except for a category tag. In those instances, a redlink is actually more informative for a reader than an existing blank page. When you see a redlink on an article page, it brings attention to the fact that that page needs to be created, and it doesn't mislead readers into clicking on links that essentially don't exist. So when we delete those pages, we should keep the links there. Then, whoever is inspired to create those pages can do so, when they have time to fill it up with at least a couple sentences of content.
- I'll go along with Scott about the song boxes -- you're right, having some information on the page makes the page worth having. So I'm just talking about pages that are completely empty. -- Danny (talk) 20:08, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm on board with deleting pages with only category tags and keeping the song boxes. I know that, personally, I had to look hard for the composers/lyricists of some of the songs I added information to. I'm pretty sure I also icluded a sentence or two on those pages, but it would be a shame to lose that stuff. --Peter Pantalones 20:15, 2 May 2006 (UTC) (and his old skool sig)
- I was just using Special:Shortpages to start weeding out some pages that have just a category tag, and it looks like there are about 650 of them altogether. So if other people want to help out with this, you can go to that page and see them all. If you'd rather add content to the page than delete it, you can use the "What links here" button on the left navigation bar to see the information that's already on the wiki. -- Danny (talk) 21:05, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
- I need to be finishing this never ending paper (and now its panic time, more than ten pages to go and due at noon tomorrow), but I'd like to suggest holding off on deletion of episode guides at least. I don't like the stubs, but on the other hand, for Farscape and The Animal Show, we have no links for most of those episodes and no list, so the stubs at least provide a clear season numbering system and starting point to be built up. In those cases, a big honking stub notice on the category page (since both of those are completely blank) would be more productive. Either that or just delete both of those categories entirely until someone has the time to do a blank pages (I don't like calling them "stubs") are nuked. --Andrew, Andrew Leal (talk) 21:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, there's already [[The Animal Show Episode List]], so I don't think it's a problem to delete the Animal Show episodes. I'll make a [[Farscape Episode List]] too. -- Danny (talk) 22:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Fab new signatures
Scott discovered a cool new way to make signatures for talk page posts, which you'll be seeing some people using. If you'd like to make one for yourself, here's how:
Click on the "preferences" tab at the top right of your screen.
On the Preferences page, put this in the Nickname box, with your User name and real first name plugged in:
- -- [[User:Username|Firstname]] ([[User talk:Username|talk]])
Then check the "Raw signatures" box underneath, and hit the "Save" button at the bottom of the page.
Then, when you sign your talk posts, you just have to type the four tildes, and the new signature will appear. You can tweak that code in a bunch of different ways; feel free to play around with it! -- Danny (talk) 13:35, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- My intial test with signatures was to open up the italics code with two apostrophes and leave no finishing code so that the name, talk link and timestamp would all show up in italics. Turns out that in some cases, the apostrophes elsewhere on the page throw it off and end up making the talk link bold and unhotlinked. So, if you choose to go with italics, make sure you include both opening and closing code for it. Otherwise, things could get messy like they did on me and Danny's talk pages. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 16:08, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think it looks better in italics. I'm keeping em in mine unless that's what's causing the talk link to become bold and unhotlinked in every other reply. I can't figure it out and it's pissing me off. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 20:35, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
- Heh. Turns out there's nothing to figure out. I'd forgotten that when you link to a page that you're already on, the hotlink is stripped and the text bolded. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 18:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
YouTube template
In the spirit of consistent formatting, I created a YouTube template. When used in the context of a page, the outside links should be brief and non-intrusive. I feel this format fits that description and it's easy to use. In cases where YouTube is being linked to from the External Links section of an article, the way we've been doing it is probably fine, unless someone had thoughts about that. Either way, I've put the template to use on the moon, and I'm going to dig into Sesame Street News Flash where it can probably be best put to use. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 02:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, and while I'm on the topic, I think we should have a policy to not link to videos which are currently commercially available. We've been following this ethic on the TP forum for years, and it's done us well. Technically, this is all copyrighted stuff, but there's a certain moral coil I feel that's being tugged when we offer the opportunity to view content that is available to buy, especially when that purchase supports a non-profit organization like Sesame Workshop. Soap box, off. -- Scott Hanson (talk) 02:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I would like to make that a rule on the wiki, that we don't link to video that's commercially available. It's also worth noting that YouTube videos get taken down faster than ordinary websites do. Is it really wise to put in tons of YouTube links that might be outdated in a couple months? -- Danny -- Danny (talk) 13:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Episode reference format
We talked about this a while ago, but we're still all over the place about it: How do we write a reference to a Muppet Show episode? There's three different ways that it's being done right now:
I think we should be consistent about it. Personally, I would prefer #1, although #2 is fine with me too. The one that I really don't like is "Episode 101 of The Muppet Show". I think it looks terrible, especially when it's an episode with a title, like "Episode 101: Beginnings of Fraggle Rock". That's just hard to read. What do other people think? -- Danny Toughpigs 15:06, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
- I personally don't think it's important that each reference be the same format. Its inclusion in a sentence is dependant upon how the sentence is being structured. Sometimes one just feels more right than the other. And it's never the same. I go with a lowercase e juts because it looks better and makes more sense. "Episode" is not the name of the episode the way that "Let the Water Run" is. Which, speaking of, should never be written with the episode number in it any more than the guest star should be when citing a Muppet Show episode. -- Scott, Scarecroe 15:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
- I've always preferred episode 101 of The Muppet Show. I like the lowercase 'e' for the same reasons Scott listed above. I also think that if an episode has a proper title that the title should, in most cases, be used instead of the episode number. --Peter Pantalones 15:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)'
- Right, like this: "...seen in the Fraggle Rock episode "[[Episode 103: Let the Water Run|Let the Water Run]]" -- Scott, Scarecroe 16:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, or "...seen in the second season Fraggle Rock episode..." --Peter Pantalones 18:06, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think we should still list a titile and number if we are listing episodes or appearances. --Minor muppetz 11:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- The issue isn't about removing episode numbers from the actual listings, Michael. The question is, within sentences, how best to list the episode, since the actual page link will include the number anyway. The main reason I've usually included the number with titled episodes from Fraggle Rock or Dinosaurs is just because, frankly, it's a bit of work trying to get the numbers right so the link works (and I don't like to use the redirects sans numbers, since in some cases, like The Finger of Light, the episode title is also a phenomenon or character or something within the episode, so that gets a bit sticky). Personally, I think linking Mupet Show episodes in lower case just looks weird. Even if it's not an actual title, whenever I've read interviews or reports or whatnot, if an actual preface is used, ala "Production #136" or whatever, it's capitalized. That's me, though, so if everyone else wants it lower case, that's fine. As for the "of", I think it makes sense with the simply numbered episodes, in some cases, but yeah, if we're redoing the listings for episodes with titles (which I should make clear I am in favor of, just haven't gotten around to redoing many pages yet), it seems odd unless more specifics are given. Something like ' "The Story of Blank" from the second season of Dinosaurs ', while longer, works for me, especially if, for example, the sentence is explaining a significant character debut. Otherwise, "The Dinosaurs episode Blank" works. --Andrew, Aleal 14:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- I've been doing it the #1 way, mostly. If the phrase "Episode 203" is a link, it looks better to me if the word "Episode" is capitalized. It just looks more like a title that way. But that's pretty much only with Muppet Show and Muppets Tonight episodes. If the episode has its own title, I would refer to it like, "the Fraggle Rock episode Beginnings," which to me looks and sounds pretty good. -Ryan PrawnRR 18:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- So, basically, every single one of us has a different way of writing everything. Well, I guess that's okay. -- Danny Toughpigs 19:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think it hurts, so long as it's grammatically correct. I do feel pretty strong about using the full episode number and title for the link rather than redirects. I've mentioned before that citing Episode 213 means nothing to me unless I know what who the guest star was, or the name given tot he episode. Which, when done properly, can be seen with a simple mouse rollover rather than having to click on the link, wait for thepage to load, see what it is, then hit back so you can continue what you were doing. Not that I'm saying most of us don't do that, just that I wish to keep that consistent. -- Scott, Scarecroe 02:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, there is inconsistency there, and I'm as guilty as anyone else. I'm fixing some of them right now, but that raises a question. If there's an insistence on not using the redirects, why do we even *have* the redirects? I assumed it was to save time and make it easier, especially when copying info from other pages which themselves just use the redirects with no roll-over, but if we're going to insist on that format, and I'm not saying its wrong, we might as well delete the redirects, because that renders them pointless, and their presence would just encourage continued usage of them. --Andrew, Aleal 02:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. Redirects might make it easier in the authoring process, but it complicates the research process which is what the wiki is here for. -- Scott, Scarecroe 02:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- We created the redirects before we decided on that format. So I'm okay with taking them out, if you want. -- Danny Toughpigs 02:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Electric Rumors
Various sources have claimed over the years that Janice is based on Janis Joplin, Animal is based on Keith Moon, Dr. Teeth is based on (several celebrities), Floyd is based on the Beatles' album Sgt Pepper, etc. Should we have one rumor article about the origins of The Electric Mayhem, or should each one get a page? -- Scott, Scarecroe 14:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- That's a great idea. I think one rumor page for the Mayhem is good. -- Danny Toughpigs 14:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- I started a page, but I'm not sure what would be the best way to do it. It's tough also because the article is about squashing sources instead of confirming them. Basically all we know is that there have never been confirmed reports that the characters were based on those who people have said they were, right? -- Scott, Scarecroe 17:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- Dr. Teeth is the one with the most confirmation (the Elton John mention in the design sketch, and the Featured Creature entry stated he was "somewhat based on" Dr. John. The rest, I'd say use either Fozzie's Name or Marionette and Puppet as models, which start by describing the rumors or claims which might be used in support of the interpretation, and then the actual evidence. The biggest factor with the Mayhem, especially the Animal and Janice claims, is that Michael K. Frith did a lot of mix and matching of elements during the development, which strongly undermines the claim that a single musician inspired either, and of course, Janice started out as a male, with the only specific performer mentioned being Mick Jagger. --Andrew, Aleal 18:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- Nice page, dude. Very fleshed out. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Transcript format
I posted a Muppet Wiki transcript format page, to explain how people should set up transcript pages. This format is based on the discussions that we had about a month ago. Does anyone have any questions or suggestions? -- Danny Toughpigs 02:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Our navigational sidebar was getting a bit crowded, so I've placed a navbar at the top of this page here -- which is where they should be. If anyone has any ideas on tweaks, feel free to post them here. -- Scott Scarecroe 19:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
- Also, is Community portal used on a regular enough basis to warrant its inclusion on every page of the wiki? It crowds the box and I don't think anyone uses it on a daily basis. I haven't been there since December. -- Scott Scarecroe 19:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I use it, if not on a daily basis, at least a few times a week. Sometimes it's the quickest way to access someone's talk page rather than thumbing through the page history and going from the user page to the talk page. Plus a few people, new users but also a few veterans, tend to type their names but leave off the signature entirely, so I find community portal useful in that regard, when a conflict or question arises or what have you. I use it far more than the category index, in fact (though I'm not arguing for the removal of that, either). --Andrew, Aleal 19:40, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
- Also, it's kind of a "carrot" to get people to tell us their names. Scott, the new navbar at the top is awesome! -- Danny Toughpigs 19:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah. As the wiki community has grown, for those users who I don't communicate with as often, I've been using the portal list as a reminder of what their real names are. (I know it irks me ever so slightly when someone just calls me "Aleal".) --Andrew, Aleal 19:52, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Main Page picture nominations
Andrew and I were talking on Talk:Main Page picture nominations about whether we're going to delete pictures from the page, or just leave them up forever. I think we ought to have some way of taking out the pictures that don't get any votes, because otherwise we'll end up with an endlessly growing page full of pictures that nobody really cares for. So I came up with a process, and I want to get an okay from the people about it.
This is the rule that I'd like: Whenever the picture changes, any picture on the page that doesn't have any votes gets an X put under it. If a picture gets three Xs -- i.e., it doesn't get a single vote after three changes -- then it gets taken off the page. A picture with two Xs can be spared from the chopping block if somebody votes for it -- a single vote will remove all the Xs from that picture. So if you like a picture that hasn't gotten any votes after two changes, you can "save" it by giving it a vote before it gets a third X.
That'll weed out the pictures that nobody cares about and don't get any votes. Can I get an amen on this? -- Danny Toughpigs 19:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Amen --Nate Radionate 20:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Amen and Hallelujah! The only thing I'd suggest is changing the wording on the page about nominating as many pictures as you like. Right now, there's 18 pictures, including 10 with no nominations. (And of course, Nate turned traitor and abandoned Sweetums' legs without removing his vote). Anyway, it's that way mostly because folks have been nominating cool images, often in batches, so it's a bit overcrowded. So maybe just a qualifier that, while there's technically no limit, the more you add, the reduced chance of their receiving votes (and maybe a note that resubmitting is possible at a later date?) --Andrew, Aleal 22:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I was thinking that probably that would thin out a bit over time. There was a rush of photos when the page went up, just out of initial excitement. When photos start coming down for lack of votes, people will start getting more strategic about it. -- Danny Toughpigs 22:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, that reminds me of another question that I forgot to ask about. What do you think about changing the picture weekly instead of every two weeks? Obviously, we have lots of great pictures to choose from, and it's kind of a fun process. We could change it every Sunday, if people were into it. -- Danny Toughpigs 22:18, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Weekly sounds good, actually! (I should go through Time Piece again, and try to find a really weird image or two to nominate). The only problem is, I'm not sure if folks would remember to vote. Or conversely, they might remember it better if it were weekly. Hmmm... --Andrew, Aleal 22:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think people will remember -- especially when they see the picture change, and me announcing in the edit summaries that the vote is open again. Everybody place your bets! -- Danny Toughpigs 23:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Just a note to Andrew....I didn't change my vote and abandon Swetum's leg. There are actually two Nate's on the Wiki. :) --Nate Radionate 21:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
References and Spoofs
There's been some confusion about the References and Spoofs categories, and I think we could make things simpler if we switched the names around.
Right now, we're using "References" for other shows that make reference to the Muppets (like The Simpsons or Mystery Science Theater 3000). "Spoofs" is for things that the Muppets make reference to (like Pinocchio or James Bond).
There's two problems with this system: #1. The category names are vague, so we have to explain the distinction to everybody. #2. There's a number of things that the Muppets make reference to that aren't really "spoofs", but that are referenced in Muppet productions. (For example, Charles Dickens, Beethoven and Fran Allison.)
So my suggestion is that we change "References" to be the category for things that the Muppets make reference to -- spoofs as well as other kinds of references. And then we come up with a new name for shows like The Simpsons that make jokes about the Muppets.
Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time thinking of a good name for that new category. The best I can come up with right now is "Muppet Mentions" -- i.e., shows and films that mention the Muppets. Can anybody come up with a better category name? Do you think that this is a good idea in general, or are you happy with "Spoofs" as it is? -- Danny Toughpigs 21:18, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
- The next best thing to Muppet Mentions is "Muppet Allusions," which is broader but also sort of suggests that it's just allusions and not more overt parodies, so right now Muppet Mentions may be our best bet. Like I said, I do like the alliteration. A seperate category does strike me as needful, though. Re-reading the talk show transcripts on Toughpigs.com weilds a wealth of references, many of which are pretty funny if given context but peripheral and otherwise wouldn't fit in. Things like Snoop Dogg not appearing in It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, since Kermit commented on it in public, would fit. (Sidenote: Has Kermit or anyone commented on Russell Crowe? Cause I'm really not feeling him being in celebrities for *not* being on Sesame Street. He should either go in references or in a list with Snoop Dogg and Sigourney Weaver and maybe even the Beatles of "People Who Might Have But Didn't Work with the Muppets," which is a heck of an awkward title and a lumped in concept). So, anyone else who hasn't left for the weekend care to weigh in? Fran Allison and Kylie Minogue need love, dash it! --Andrew, Aleal 22:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
- Kylie Minogue is already in Celebrities, cause she did a duet with Kermit. And Snoop Dogg should be should be there, because he recorded a scene with the Electric Mayhem, even if it got cut. But yeah, we need somethin'. "Muppet Allusions" is okay, but I like the alliteration too. -- Danny Toughpigs 23:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
- I'd forgotten Kylie had a more direct connection. But rewatching Episode 210: George Burns reminded me of two more references which aren't spoofs: Jascha Heifetz and Walter Matthau (and the latter is the punchline to an actual reference to Gracie Allen), along with two more unseen characters, Sidney the Agent and Joe Bravo. Feeding the Wiki is fun! --Andrew, Aleal 00:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
- I saw Andrew's post on Tough Pigs, and figured maybe I should throw my two cents in, but it is pretty much the same opinion as you guys. Perhaps maybe we should consider three catagories?
- Spoofs for things that the Muppets themselves feature in productions that are obvious parodies. Such as James Bond or Miami Vice, as well as people such as Madonna or Norman Rockwell.
- Muppet Mentions could be for shows such as The Cosby Show or Family Guy, which feature references to the Muppets.
- And References would be for things the Muppets reference in their productions. The only problem I would have with the category distinction for references is that it is a slippery slope. To me, things like Alice in Wonderland or the Beethoven Bust are both references and spoofs, while Russell Crowe and Fran Allison would be strict references. -- Nate Radionate
- Yeah, the slippery slope is part of the problem we're trying to correct. We've already had confusing conversations about whether Charles Dickens is a spoof or just a reference. That's part of why I want to stop using "Spoofs", because it's too complicated figuring out what's a spoof and what isn't. -- Danny Toughpigs 17:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
- So what about just Parodies, References/Homages, and Muppet Mentions? -- Nate Radionate
- Parodies has the same problems as Spoofs. The idea is to make the distinction simpler. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
- How about "External References" for things outside the Henson/Muppet universe that mention the Muppets and "Internal References" for things that the Muppets reference in their work. --Peter Pantalones 13:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm, that's a thought. "Internal References" might sound like the Muppets are referring to themselves. Like, on the wiki, "External Links" are links to other websites, and "Internal Links" are to other wiki pages. -- Danny Toughpigs 14:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- "Internal References" makes me think of the sketch showing Herry Monster's stomach. That's just me, though. And yeah, we do have an "in-jokes" page for references to Muppet performers or productions, so internal references is close, but... Actually, I just thought of something... Would "Media References" or "Media Mentions" work for the Family Guy etc. stuff? Yeah, it might also imply magazine interviews and stuff, but some of that which doesn't directly involve sanctioned Muppet participation or publicity might fit in too. I mean the references the Muppets make are mostly to media things too, but it's a thought. Hoo boy, this is harder than one might think. --Andrew, Aleal 14:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- I know, it's tough, but we'll figure it out. "Media Mentions" is interesting. One thought is "References in Other Media", but that sounds bad. Grrr. -- Danny Toughpigs 15:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, since we seem to be more or less stuck, I'm going to switch it to "References" and "Muppet Mentions", and then we can change MM whenever we come up with a better name. -- Danny Toughpigs 13:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- That works for me. Actually, isn't Wikia finally supposed to allow category redirects soonish? That could make the task easier when/if we rename it. --Andrew, Aleal 06:04, 5 April 2006 (PDT)
- I think the category redirects is a different thing. That's for a page to redirect to a category listing -- like, if a page has a link to Sigma Ceramics, and we wanted it to link directly to the Sigma Ceramics category listing. Right now, we have to type in the category tag as the link, but the upgraded Wikia software will let us just make a redirect, which is simpler. -- Danny Toughpigs 13:54, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed there are a few pages which contain transcripts:
My question is: do they really belong here? I mean, they can be fun to read, especially while the clip is playing.
But on the other hand, for some, they may take something away from the experience of seeing the clip for the first time. As the old saying goes: seeing is believing.
Also, they take an awful long time to type, and while we may get some kind of feeling of satisfaction from such a long task, wouldn't it be a better idea to do things listed on the Things you can do page -- things the site could really use? (Furthermore, is there anyone who thinks "wanted transcripts" could be added to that page?)
I think transcripts are better handled on a site like Tough Pigs, which only one person can edit. Then again, maybe that's what I'm used to. On a site like this, which usually has smaller entries, a transcript feels like way too much information about such a small, insignificant sketch. In most cases, a simple short description will usually suffice. (However, "reference" pages like Family Guy and American Dad use only small, Muppet-related fragments of half-hour episodes, which, IMO, count as quotes.)
What do the rest of you think? --MuppetVJ 01:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think transcripts can be worthwhile. I agree with you that seeing the clip is better than reading it, but the average person reading the wiki doesn't necessarily have a searchable library of Muppet videos on hand. For research-type purposes, I find a transcript to be more useful than a clip, because you can focus on the words. I think the photos and transcript on The Wonderful World of T-Shirts is a good example -- anybody who's interested in that particular sketch would find a lot of good information there.
- The problem with doing transcripts on Tough Pigs is that only one person can do it, and it's a lot of work. I started anthologies for the News Flashes, Ernie and Bert, and Grover the waiter, but I never finished any of them. If we collectively picked a project like that and got a bunch of people to do the transcripts, then I bet we could assemble a huge library that people would enjoy reading. That collection would also add information to a whole bunch of other wiki pages, too.
- The question that I have is whether people think it's appropriate, in a copyright sense. Is it okay for us to essentially post scripts on the wiki? -- Danny Toughpigs 01:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, it'd be nice if we had more people willing to take that much time. There ought to be a transcripts category, assuming that it's okay. Each one deserves its own page, like on TP.
- Also, about those unfinished anthologies: why didn't you just ask me for help? You know I'd do it. Wanna see an example? --MuppetVJ 00:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well, an anonymous user just uploaded Episode_101:_Juliet_Prowse_Script. I'm not sure about the legal question of copytights, but I know I'd feel more comfortable about it with sketches than with whole episodes. For one thing, the episode is now on DVD. For another, especially as formatted by our unknown friend, it's not very readable or especially useful. I'm not against transcripts, but I think we need to at least roughly define limits, and probably a standard format. This reminds me of our little image discussion over Michael K. Frith Sketches, where quite rightly it was decided the pics needed to be more closely tied to text and have a clear context and justification. Let's look at the three other transcripts (all done by Brad Fraggle, who does plenty of good work here, so if he wanted to take his time to transcribe, then good for him; Sprocket's Impersonations didn't feel a vital need, but I had fun doing it and I think others may find it amusing). Anyway, the Mr. Hooper transcript is only of the relevant dialogue regarding his passing. Since it's a famous and oft-referenced episode but one which younger viewers have either forgotten (I only dimly recall it myself) or never saw, I think it's useful. "Near and Far" is useful in demonstrating the personality differences between Fuzzyface and Grover. The "World of T-Shirts" is dodgier, but it actually works better as a transcript than the awkward summary did, and helps to illuminate which monster went with which "Frog" transposition.
- A Juliet Prowse script, on the other hand, doesn't strike me as especially useful, and neither would full transcripts of feature films. Plus, given Google searches, they could be dodgier in terms of copyrights. Actually, this also raises a related issue re song transcriptions. I know this was mentioned before, and the idea vetoed. If we allow sketch transcripts, though, we need to either allow songs or have a clear rationale for why one is more problematic than the other. --Andrew, Aleal 03:26, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- This is probably unrelated, but for several years there has been a site called the South Park Scriptorium (I've even contributed there occasionally :)), which either means that A) it's okay to publish a transcript anywhere, or B) that Comedy Central is more leniant with that kind of thing. Confusing, isn't it? --MuppetVJ 04:11, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- I've talked to some lawyers about this issue before and they said something along the following... Transcripts are fine as long as you don't take credit for originating them, sell them or simply take the text straight from published sources (self transcribing is acceptable – copying a printed screenplay is not).
- It's also a very good rule of thumb (just to be safer than sorrier) that you shouldn't publish full complete works (a full script of Muppet Treasure Island or of the entire Sesame Street Episode 0001 probably send some flags up and might get some people on your backs). As we know, publishing song lyrics will send flags up too because a song (legally) is a complete copyrighted work. Recently a few select musicians/record companies have gone after places that public their lyrics, guitar-tabs and such – this basically has caused the "better safe than sorry" blanket rule wikia set of "no lyrics". A song is a complete work and publishing all the lyrics is (in terms of copyrights) like publishing a whole movie transcript. However I was told that publishing individual skits, scenes and parts of a larger production are fine (in terms of copyrights) – like an extended quote (you can use a line or two of a song, just not the whole thing). The stuff ToughPigs does in their anthologies is ok. A Sesame Street sketch or Muppet Show bit is fine (and staying away from posting a whole show, the copyrighted production, in full is a good rule of thumb).
- The Episode_101:_Juliet_Prowse_Script posted here does three thing I don't like: 1) it has bad formatting 2) song lyrics are included 3) its full work. Another problem with transcripts can be hard to double check. Someone could post a transcript to a skit and unless you can (and do) sit down, watch it and follow along, we would never know if it is accurate or just some fan going off a 15-year old memory of the sketch. A skit here or there can be fun, useful and insightful. But we shouldn't become the Muppet Transcript collector. They shouldn't outlawed...(yet). But we should keep them under control, use them appropriately and with judgment but still have fun. – BradFraggle 04:28, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, the Juliet Prowse script was posted by Dillon, an autistic kid who I've kicked off the wiki more times than I'm happy with. I've been e-mailing his mom, and trying to get her to help me keep him off the site. The weirdest part was that Dillon posted on the talk page, pretending to thank Scott for posting it, and telling him how useful it is. Don't worry about Dillon; I'll deal with him. It's nice to have that as a negative example, though, because it's pretty clear that it was inappropriate, useless, and badly-formatted, kind of like Miss Piggy's description of Mr. Scrooge. So that's what we don't want to have.
- But the more we talk about it, the more comfortable I am with Tough Pigs-style transcripts of Sesame sketches. People do find the TP anthologies to be interesting and useful, and I think they would be here too. Guillermo, I'm glad you're offering to help with the anthologies -- but now that we have a wiki, it's even easier. If you feel like busting out some pictures and transcripts, you can just post them, without waiting for me to post it on TP.
- Now, G's original point is true -- transcribing Sesame Street News Flashes isn't the #1 priority for the wiki right now. But collecting photos of Miss Piggy dressed as the Statue of Liberty isn't our top priority either, and I spent all night doing that. The wiki runs entirely on the power of whim, so if somebody gets it in their head to spend an hour typing up an Ernie and Bert sketch, I'd be the last person in the world to tell them that they're wasting their time. Bring it on. -- Danny Toughpigs 04:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- So basically,
- Quotes and sketches = good
- Songs, movies, and episodes = bad
- ? --GrantHarding 04:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's right. -- Danny Toughpigs 05:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Should we make that a policy, and post it somewhere visible? --GrantHarding 05:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Check it out ...
- --MuppetVJ 17:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Excellent! I haven't seen that one yet. Yay! I played around with the formatting and posted it on [[Transcript format test]]. Most of the page is the way Guillermo posted it, so you can compare the two. What do you guys think? -- Danny Toughpigs 17:41, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- Was it deleted? It doesn't show as a valid link and loads blank. Or rather, doesn't load, it just shows the thing to start a new page. Agent0042 00:42, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- On one hand, it's quite a lot of space (and I don't necessarily agree with the quotation marks). On the other hand, it's easier to go through. Maybe I'll have a better decision by the end of the day. --MuppetVJ 19:38, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- I prefer a little less white space. Also, I prefer the tabs as shown on [[Transcript format test 2]]. Is there any way to keep the character's name and the dialogue on the same line and preserve the tabs? I think that would be ideal. --Peter Pantalones 20:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- I know, I'd like to do that too, but I can't figure it out. That's called a hanging indent... I can do it in Word, but I can't figure out how to do it on the wiki. I looked on Wikipedia:How to edit a page. I couldn't figure out hanging indent, but I did learn about blockquote, which seems useful. I used that on [[Transcript format test 3]] -- it moves the margins in on both sides, which makes the text a little easier to swallow. I also took the quotation marks out.
- Now, I kinda like white space, personally. I think on format test 2, the lines kind of run together. Reading off a computer screen is a little strenuous, so I think it's helpful to have a clear visual distinction between one character's lines and the next.
- But if we could figure out hanging indents, then we could probably have less white space and it would still make sense visually. So if we can figure that out, then we're golden. -- Danny Toughpigs 20:40, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- I don't like too much white space in regular articles, when there doesn't seem to be a reason for it. In a transcript, though, I really like the format. It makes it easier to read and as you say, distinguish lines. Another thought to consider, though. While it can't be done for all transcripts, how would the format and the look be affected if/when pictures are added? --Andrew, Aleal 20:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- Pictures is a good question, we'll have to experiment with that.
- I just created [[Transcript format test 4]], which includes bootleg hanging indents. Basically, I did a preview of the page, saw where the line breaks were, and did the indents manually. -- Danny Toughpigs 14:18, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm... The problem with the bootleg hanging indents is that it can only work for a particular screen size. I did the version on Transcript test 4 for 1024x768, but that means it won't look right for the other screen sizes. Growf. -- Danny Toughpigs 15:38, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- I really like [[Transcript format test 5]]. No joke. --MuppetVJ 18:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, here's my latest: '''[[Transcript format test 7]]'''. I used Scott's hanging indents from #5, simplified the code, put in more white space, and put in some sample photos. What do you think? -- Danny Toughpigs 21:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Still more code heavy than I'd like, but easier than the last version, and the reduction of white space looks good. --Andrew, Aleal 22:38, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Well, it's really just the same two codes, over and over. So it shouldn't be too hard to pick up. -- Danny Toughpigs 23:18, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think the stage directions should be tabbed over once more, so that they don't line up directly with the hanging dialogue tab. --Peter Pantalones 23:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, I moved 'em. Do you like it now? -- Danny Toughpigs 23:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's better. --Peter Pantalones 23:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

subset: commoncrawl


text:
PLATINUM AERO stress test
The lightest and strongest mast in its class - the PLATINUM AERO - seems almost unbreakbale. Withstanding the most tough conditions in Pozo, Hawaii, etc. even our most destructive team riders (Fabian Weber in this case) are not able to break the AERO.
The secret: Carbon Fibre Quality. Read more about the technical details.


text:
Need a Lipid Panel Test in Waterbury, CT? Simply order online 24/7 and get a fast, affordable Lipid Panel Test at a lab near you (Find More Locations):
What is a Lipid Panel Test?
A Lipid Panel Test is a panel of lab tests that measure the lipid panel. People in Waterbury, CT order the Lipid Panel Test to get a baseline or for ongoing tracking.
How much does a Lipid Panel Test cost?
Our Lipid Panel Test price includes the doctor's order that you need to get tested in Waterbury, CT, all lab fees and taxes, and a pdf copy of your results. For current prices, please CLICK HERE.
What does a Lipid Panel Test lab report look like?
For a Lipid Panel Test sample report, please CLICK HERE.
We are delighted to offer the Lipid Panel Test in Waterbury, CT.
Lipid Panel Test in other cities near Waterbury, CT:Ansonia | Bethany | Branford | Cheshire | East Haven | Hamden | Meriden | New Haven | North Haven | Orange | Prospect | South Britain | Wallingford | West Haven | Woodbridge


text:
Now you can train as you want and reach your fitness targets with the FT60s personalized training program. It sets new targets by adapting to your personal training habits, helping you stay motivated and carry on improving your fitness. The adaptive training program features weekly targets, feedback and guidance so youll achieve your training targets more efficiently and effectively. For limited time only, It comes with free cinch bag with purchase.
It's easy to transfer data between the training computer and polarpersonaltrainer.com. Simply connect it to a PC with its USB connection.
Polar G1 provides
speed and distance data in all outdoor sports
using Global Positioning System (GPS)
The Polar G1 sensor determines your location by
measuring continuously the distance between
itself and at least four satellites. The sensor
uses wireless transmission technology to
transmit speed and distance data to a
compatible Polar product which records and
displays the data.
Polar G1 is resilient and water resistant - you
can depend on its performance regardless where
you train!
The H2 heart rate sensor allows you to monitor your heart rate on a compatible Polar device. The soft fabric chest strap seamlessly adapts to your body shape, bringing full freedom of movement to your exercise. The convenient hook mechanism makes it quick to put on when you want to start training and easy to take off when you're finished.
Mobile Site |
Cart | Health
& Fitness Tips & Information | Products
| Contact
Us | Store Policies| Home
| Your
Account | Shipping
Charge Estimator | Site
Fat Measurement | Pro Body Fat Monitors | Heart
Rate Monitors | Bariatric Scales | Blood
Pressure Monitors | Breast
Pumps | Digital
Thermometers | Fertility
Monitors | Nebulizers & Peak
Flow Meters | Fitness
Products | Baby
Video Monitors | Baby Strollers | Bathroom
Scales | Smoking
Cessation | Weight
Loss | Cholesterol
Kits | Diabetes
Testing / Glucose Meters | Infant/Baby
Care | Medical/Physician's
Scales | Medical
Strength Testing Equipment | Cooking/Diet
Scales | Portable
Personal Massagers | Jogging
| Bicycle Trailers | Stopwatches & Scoreboards| GreatGift
Ideas | POWERBreather Inspiratory
Muscle Strengthener
Copyright ©1997 -2017 HealthCheck Systems, All rights reserved


text:
Hi All,
I've been working on some metal boot spikes recently for my CA Boots. Let me know what you think.
I'm offering these through my website too so if you want a set give me a shout. I won't be able to get any out before Xmas as I'm backed up with Clone Trooper boots at the moment!
I'd really appreciate your opinions though! They are just held on with double sided tape at he moment, but will be held in with screws.


text:
Disability Determination Services Consultant File, Social Security Administration, Office of Disability Determinations
Effective Date: January 11, 2006
System name:
Disability Determination Services Consultant File, Social Security Administration, Office of Disability Determinations.
Security classification:
System Location:
Offices of State Disability Determination Services (DDS) may currently maintain this type of file. Contact the system manager at the address below or access http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foia/bluebook/app_b.htm for the name and address of each State DDS and the Federal Disability Determination Services (FDDS).
Categories of individuals covered by the system:
Physicians who have expressed a willingness to conduct consultative examinations for the DDS and, in some instances, other physicians with whom the DDS has contact. The latter are usually treating physicians. This file also includes, but is not limited to, psychologists, social workers, nurses, audiologists and vocational consultants who express a willingness to conduct some type of consultative service for the DDS.
Categories of records in the system:
Information relative to a consultant's specialty, past experience as to the promptness with which reports are submitted, general thoroughness of reports, fees received, etc., and perhaps comments on the consultant's own preferences (such as appointment hours, etc.).
Authority for maintenance of the system:
5 U.S.C. 301, 30 U.S.C. 923(b), and sections 221 and 1633 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 421 and 1383b).
DDS personnel use this information in the selection of a consultant when additional medical or vocational evidence is needed for claims under Titles II and XVI of the Social Security Act.
Routine uses of records maintained in the system, including categories of users and the purposes of such uses:
Disclosure may be made for routine uses as indicated below. However, disclosure of any information defined as ``return or return information'' under 26 U.S.C. 6103 of the Internal Revenue Code will not be disclosed unless authorized by a statute, the Internal Revenue
Service (IRS), or IRS regulations.
1. To a congressional office in response to an inquiry from the office made at the request of the subject of a record.
2. To the Department of Justice (DOJ), a court or other tribunal, or another party before such tribunal when:
(a) The Social Security Administration (SSA), or any component thereof; or
(b) Any SSA employee in his/her official capacity; or
(c) Any SSA employee in his/her individual capacity where DOJ (or SSA where it is authorized to do so) has agreed to represent the employee; or
(d) the United States or any agency thereof where SSA determines that the litigation is likely to affect the operations of SSA or any of its components, is a party to litigation or has an interest in such litigation, and SSA determines that the use of such records by DOJ, a court or other tribunal, or another party before such tribunal, is relevant and necessary to the litigation, provided, however, that in each case, SSA determines that such disclosure is compatible with the purpose for which the records were collected.
3. To contractors and other Federal agencies, as necessary, for the purpose of assisting the Social Security Administration (SSA) in the efficient administration of its programs. We will disclose information under this routine use only in situations in which SSA may enter into a contractual or similar agreement with a third party to assist in accomplishing an agency function relating to this system of records.
4. To the General Services Administration and the National Archives Records Administration (NARA) under 44 U.S.C. 2904 and 2906, as amended by the NARA Act of 1984, information which is not restricted from disclosure by Federal law for the use of those agencies in conducting records management studies.
5. To student volunteers, individuals working under a personal services contract, and other workers who technically do not have the status of Federal employees, when they are performing work for the Social Security Administration (SSA), as authorized by law, and they need access to personally identifiable information in SSA records in order to perform their assigned Agency functions.
6. To the Secretary of Health and Human Services or to any State, the Commissioner shall disclose any record or information requested in writing by the Secretary for the purpose of administering any program administered by the Secretary, if records or information of such type were so disclosed under applicable rules, regulations and procedures in effect before the date of enactment of the Social Security Independence and Program Improvements Act of 1994.
7. We may disclose information to appropriate Federal, State, and local agencies, entities, and persons when (1) we suspect or confirm that the security or confidentiality of information in this system of records has been compromised; (2) we determine that as a result of the suspected or confirmed compromise there is a risk of harm to economic or property interests, identity theft or fraud, or harm to the security or integrity of this system or other systems or programs of SSA that rely upon the compromised information; and (3) we determine that disclosing the information to such agencies, entities, and persons is necessary to assist in our efforts to respond to the suspected or confirmed compromise and prevent, minimize, or remedy such harm. SSA will use this routine use to respond only to those incidents involving an unintentional release of its records.
Policies and practices for storing, retrieving, accessing, retaining, and disposing of records in the system:
Each DDS maintains its own records and the method of storage may vary from State to State and within the FDDS. Generally, the information is on a file card maintained in a standard card file cabinet. However, some States may use an automated format.
Records are retrieved by consultant's surname.
Only authorized SSA and DDS personnel have access to these records. Personal information other than the name of the consultant is subject to the disclosure restrictions of 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(6), 21 U.S.C. 1175, and 42 U.S.C. 1306. Access http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foia/bluebook/app_g.htm for additional information relating to SSA data security measures.
Retention and disposal:
DDS policy as to retention and disposal varies from State to State and within the FDDS, but generally, the file is destroyed upon death, retirement or relocation of the consultant.
System manager(s) and address(es):
Social Security Administration
Associate Commissioner
Office of Disability Determinations
Notification procedures:
An individual can determine if this system contains a record about him/her by providing name and address to the DDS Administrator, c/o the State in which he or she resides and/or information is likely to be maintained (contact the system manager at the address above or access http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foia/bluebook/app_b.htm for address information).
An individual requesting notification of records in person should provide the same information, as well as provide an identity document, preferably with a photograph, such as a driver's license or some other means of identification. If an individual does not have any identification documents sufficient to establish his/her identity, the individual must certify in writing that he/she is the person claimed to be and that he/she understands that the knowing and willful request for, or acquisition of, a record pertaining to another individual under false pretenses is a criminal offense.
If notification is requested by telephone, an individual must verify his/her identity by providing identifying information that parallels information in the record to which notification is being requested. If it is determined that the identifying information provided by telephone is insufficient, the individual will be required to submit a request in writing or in person. If an individual is requesting information by telephone on behalf of another individual, the subject individual must be connected with the Social Security Administration (SSA) and the requesting individual in the same phone call. SSA will establish the subject individual's identity (his/her name, Social Security number, address, date of birth and place of birth, along with one other piece of information, such as mother's maiden name) and ask for his/her consent in providing information to the requesting individual.
If a request for notification is submitted by mail, an individual must include a notarized statement to SSA to verify his/her identity or must certify in the request that he/she is the person claimed to be and that he/she understands that the knowing and willful request for, or acquisition of, a record pertaining to another individual under false pretenses is a criminal offense. These procedures are in accordance with SSA Regulations (20 CFR 401.40(c)).
Record access procedures:
Same as Notification procedures. Requesters also should reasonably specify the record contents being sought. These access procedures are in accordance with SSA Regulations (20 CFR 401.40(c)).
Contesting record procedures:
Same as Notification procedures. Requesters also should reasonably identify the record, specify the information they are contesting and the corrective action sought, and the reasons for the correction, with supporting justification showing how the record is incomplete, untimely, inaccurate or irrelevant. These procedures are in accordance with SSA Regulations (20 CFR 401.65(a)).
Record source categories:
Information is obtained mostly from the consultant. Observations of DDS personnel about the consultant, such as the individual's general promptness in filing reports, may occasionally be found in a consultant's file.
Systems exempted from certain provisions of the Privacy Act:


text:
UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND, Va. - The University of Richmond Spiders baseball team used a potent offense to sweep a Saturday doubleheader at Pitt Field over the visiting Saint Peter's Peacocks. The Spiders took game one, 17-8, before defeating the Peacocks, 7-2, in a seven-inning game two. Winners of five-straight, Richmond improved its record to 5-3 on the season, while Saint Peter's fell to 1-8 on the year.
Highlighting the Spiders' effort on Saturday was senior Chris Cowell and junior Jacob Mayers. In the two games, Cowell combined to hit 5-for-9 with three home runs, seven RBIs, four runs scored and a double. Not to be outdone, Mayers went 4-for-6 at the plate combined with two home runs, seven runs driven in, four runs scored and three walks.
Starting the first game, Mayers (2-1) pitched seven innings, allowing six earned runs while striking out eight to earn the win. In game two, freshman Zak Sterling (1-0) went five strong innings, striking out five while surrendering two earned runs.
In game one, the Spiders jumped on the Peacocks quickly, scoring four runs in the bottom of the first to seize early control of the contest. The frame was highlighted by RBI hits from Cowell and senior Phil Ruzbarsky, while sophomore Adam Forrer had a two-run double.
After solo home runs from Cowell and senior Bryan Conway in the third inning, Richmond added 10 more runs to its total in the fourth through sixth frames. Doing the most damage were Cowell and Mayers, who each had a three-run home run during the stretch. Through six innings, Richmond held a 16-6 lead over the Peacocks.
The strength of the Spider offense has been the long-ball and Saturday would be no different. In its two wins over Saint Peter's, Richmond hit seven more homers, pushing its team total to 18 on the season - the most in the Atlantic 10. Cowell and Mayers lead the team with six bombs each, while Conway and Ruzbarsky are tied for third with two each after each went long on Saturday.
With a comfortable 10-run lead, the Spiders cruised to the 17-8 victory in game one. Out of the bullpen, freshman Ray Harron pitched two solid frames, allowing just one run on two hits while striking out three. Cowell finished game one going 3-for-5 with two homers and six RBIs, while Mayers drove in four while hitting 3-for-4 with a home run. Senior Adam McConnell scored four times in the first game, while also collecting a pair of hits.
In game two, Saint Peter's was the team to jump out to the early advantage, scoring a run in the second and third to claim a 2-0 lead after three innings. In the bottom of the fourth, the Spiders cut the deficit in half on a RBI infield single from Conway.
Still trailing 2-1, Richmond's offense exploded in the bottom of the fifth, scoring six run on seven hits in the inning. Zink started the scoring with a one out, RBI single that scored freshman Eric Flanagan who reached with a leadoff double. Two batters later, runners were on the corners for Mayers, who obliterated the SPC offering over the fence in center field for a three-run homer. Cowell made it back-to-back shots for the Spiders as the senior blasted a solo shot deep to left field. Three batters later after a Ruzbarsky triple and a walk to Conway, Forrer rounded out the scoring with a RBI single to right. After five full, Richmond held a 7-2 lead over Saint Peter's.
Senior Alex Maffett would relieve Sterling in the sixth and secure the win for the freshman, pitching two perfect innings, striking out one. A 7-2, seven-inning victory gave the Spiders a doubleheader sweep over Saint Peter's.
In game two, McConnell and Forrer each had two hits, while Mayers continued to drive in run after runs, tallying three more RBIs to push his season total to team-high 16.
The Richmond Spiders baseball team will conclude its three-game series with the Saint Peter's Peacocks on Sunday at Pitt Field. First pitch is scheduled for 1 p.m., with live stats and video available at RichmondSpiders.com.


text:
Yeah, anyone interested in ghosts and paranormal stuff or had freaky experiances?
I was at a ghost tour at a cemetary with my mum last night. We got a really creepy EVP on our voice recorder of what sounds to be little girls playing, giggling and screaming, in the childrens section.


text:
|Topic Review (Newest First)
|man wish I could take a big dump right now...
I admit I didn't have a very thorough look, just a peak and I perhaps got the wrong impression.
Also has something to do with the fact that we still don't have any snow at my local mountain.
that makes me more disagreeable in general (just ask my wife).
Should have a big dump in the next two weeks and it will be on.
First trip planned for the 18th19th and 20th. Can not wait.
Impressive moderating by mr Donutz.
|Dreampow, I agree with everything you said in your last post. My misunderstanding was pretty well summarized by Donutz. I work in the scientific field although not in academia but I do understand how far reaching is the impact of funding on the direction that research takes and I do not deny that scientists get 'paid off' in one sense of the word or another. One area I still will disagree with you on is on the quality and objectiveness of the Skeptoid podcast. Listen to a couple more episodes, I'm sure you will nothing objectionable about his reporting or research. All of his work is cited using very reputable sources and his methodology for arriving at his conclusion is sound. In addition, he readily accepts any emails with rebuttals or corrections. He also publishes an episode every couple of weeks containing errors, corrections, and omissions.
Dreampow, I think you and Acrophile are having different arguments. I think he's more bothered by the idea that you might think, like many creationists seem to, that everything is just an opinion, i.e. if I say that DNA mutates and you say it doesn't, that's a wash because the vote is 1/1. What you're talking about is political reality, and I don't think anyone's going to argue that.
I could be way off base though.
I get what you are saying and I will agree that a lot of scientific research is genuine as are many medical practices.
I studied Biological sciences to a masters level at Oxford university so I think I know a thing or two about the scientific process. I understand the workings of the human body, immune system and pathogens that infect it.
In its ideal form its exactly as you say. Free, impartial, independent and only concerned with the facts.
As someone who has been in the scientific world at the top of its hierarchy, I know first hand that it is far from what you imagine it to be. Both my parents are academics and taught at universities here in the UK. One of my Dads buddies who hasn't retired yet happens to be in medical research at the uni where my Dad taught until he retired (one of the best in the UK).
My dads friend agrees with me on this and often bitches at length about it because he hates the current system, but has to jump the hoops to support his family. Its all about getting and keeping funding. Thats the name of the game.
Not finding the truth.
Because most funding is provided by mega corps in one form or another there is significant pressure on scientists to study topics and produce results that are consistent with the desires of the people providing the funding.
The WHO has had many scandals where the "independent" scientists recommend certain drugs (eg tamiflu). If the WHO recommends it then whole countries will buy vast quantities of it. In the case of tamiflu and on many many other occasions it has been later proven that the independent scientists were receiving pay outs from the companies that make the drugs. On top of that these recommended drugs are often not tested properly for side effects (especially for flu because when a new strain appears there is a rush to get the vaccine and sell it quickly before a new mutation or strain appears). In a case in Japan several teenagers had hallucination type responses and lost the plot jumping out of windows from several stories up.
It was not suicide more like an epileptic fit and the mother of several of the kids was with them at the time but couldn't stop them because they were totally in a hysteric rage.
The drugs were withdrawn from the market, but no charges were made. If that were someone taking alternative treatment that suddenly flipped out and jumped out of a window the person providing the treatment would be locked up.
I am not trying to say all all science is wrong or anything like it. I enjoyed studying biology and most of what I learned is fact and based on real research. Sadly particularly in the medical field there are often agendas other than "truth" leading the research.
Of course they like to portray it as an independent honest search for the truth/facts. That appeals to people.
Ask anyone who has been on the inside of the scientific community and you will get a different answer.
Success rates for treatments are also notoriously dubious.
Modern medicine has provided excellent treatments and results for many illnesses. There are dubious practices too.
Like anything else you need to do your own research and understand your options before making an informed choice.
I am no means pro alternative treatment either. There are many con men selling shit that does nothing in that arena too.
The vibe I picked up from this dude with the podcasts was quite strongly pro modern medicine / science and anything else is bullshit. Perhaps I got it wrong, but that seemed like his opinion to me.
Also Snowjeeper. I work for myself and do something I love to do. I also grow food and live as independently from the system as I can. I am no drone.
|Dreampow, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. There is no opinion involved. For every episode there is a very thorough bibliography involved. Almost all of which are reputable peer reviewed journals. As time goes on and we are able to collect more data , scientific theory will change accordingly with knowledge. Science, unlike politics, does not have an agenda! There are only observations and data from which theories and scientific laws come from. If science finds some new data that is incongruent with existing scientific theories then the theories are changed. No God or government involved here. The problem is that the lay public picks and chooses which bits of science they choose to believe. If an article in a Medical review journal describes the function of the heart, you probably won't dispute the fact that its pumps blood throughout the body but if a medical journal has the results of the efficacy of a new treatment for heart disease then you dispute it? If you believe that alternative treatments work as well or more so than modern medicine just do a simple search on Pubmed. You'll find tens of thousands articles, but just don't choose to not believe the information they contain because it may say something you don't like or understand.
|That's what the system wants you to think. You'll be a corporate drone, and you'll like it.
|I'll be whatever I like to be
Originally Posted by dreampow View Post
He has his opinions just like everyone else, you really believe its totally objective?
No human being is totally objective.
I agree with this guy on quite a few points, but by no means all.
Just as everything else I would take it with a pinch of salt (which is consistent with what he is saying I guess).
At the end of the day its up to us to find our own stance on things. To me critical thinking and logic are valuable tools but not the only tools we have to decide things. I spent years in the world of science where everything is supposed to be about critical thinking and logic. Reality is its often warped by concerns for funding.
He had good experiences with modern medicine and is to some extent championing it IMO. I know many people who have had really bad experiences (operations that made things worse, side effects worse than the original condition etc,etc) and great experiences with alternative techniques.
Of course some conditions are better treated with modern medicine while others are not IMO. Plenty of bullshit alternative treatments and plenty of bullshit pharmaceutical products too.
I like going with my instincts and gut feelings as well as critical thinking. Right now I am looking for a house. Of course I want to make sure its sound structurally and will do all the logical checks. Once the checks are done I go with my gut feeling about a place to make the final choice. I have always trusted my gut instincts about people too, not scientific but its worked for me.
I am not dissing this guy or trying to start an argument, just sharing my opinion.
Originally Posted by snowjeeper View Post
Sounds like a paradox to me!
|This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.
|Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


text:
- Home
- About
- Issues
- Act
- Publications
- Donate
Lori Montgomery of The Washington Post reports that both sides are "drafting radically different budget blueprints" with little middle ground. Her story quoted Robert Bixby, executive director of the bipartisan Concord Coalition: "They're opening bids. But they're opening bids from three years ago."


text: Have you ever been told to get a malware scanner? Ever received the threat of a virus? Have you been advised not to use a specific program because it has spyware? What is the difference? Do you need a separate program for each, or does one cover them all? A lot of questions need to be answered, so we'll cover them one by one. Continue reading


text: It seems I've managed to go my entire skating life (must be aproaching 8 years or more) without ever getting filmed skating. I've considered it in the past but then thought better of it. After a particularly good session on spins last night a friend offered to film me so I got her to film a sit spin and an upright spin. When i do my sitspin I realise it is not as low as it could be but it feels like I am low enough (from where I am). Looking at the tape I was actually waiting for myself to go down when I came out of the spin I said to my friend - that's it? That my "sit" spin? On the upright spin - I actually nearly lost it at the end because I'd been spinning so fast, and again watching it back it just seemed really slow. After being crushed for the rest of the night, I've woken up this morning disheartened but not giving up yet. Maybe i should have started taping myself years ago, maybe now i'd actually have a sit spin that actually does go down


text:
Cain and Abel is a Windows application and i don't think that there is a linux version of it. Plus BackTrack is more deeper and sophisticated security distro than Cain & Abel. If you learn how to use BackTrack you will forget about Cain and Abel.
However, Cain and Abel is a great Windows application and one day it will have most of BackTrack stuff too but that wouldn't happen anytime soon..


text:
Banana Split Cookie Trifles RecipeRead Reviews Be the first to add a review
Layered with chocolate chip cookies, ice cream, sliced bananas and sundae toppings, this sweet and speedy trifle has it all.—Marci Carl, Northern, Cambria, Pennsylvania
Featured In: 16 Banana Split-Inspired Recipes
- 4 soft chocolate chip cookies, crumbled
- 2 cups chocolate chip ice cream, softened
- 2 small bananas, halved lengthwise and cut into 1-inch pieces
- 1/2 cup whipped cream
- 2/3 cup hot fudge ice cream topping
- Place 1 tablespoon cookie crumbs in each of four dessert dishes. Layer with half of the ice cream, bananas, whipped cream, fudge topping and remaining cookies. Repeat layers. Serve immediately. Yield: 4 servings.
Originally published as Banana Split Cookie Trifles in Country Woman August/September 2010, p42
Reviews for Banana Split Cookie Trifles
Please Log In or Join to add a rating and review.
Click stars to rate
Any changes to your rating or review will appear where you originally posted your review


text:
Visit us on Google+
Uploaded on 19 November, 2013
lol, He's Dead Serious Though White Boy "Snowball" Sending Warnings To Chief Keef "Gon Get Ur ASS Fired Up You Come Round My Block"
Length : 4:04
Category: Mid W.
DJ Khaled – Wild Thoughts ft. Rihanna, Bryson Tiller
by Admin
DJ Khaled – Wild Thoughts ft. Rihanna, Bryson...
Big Boi – Kill Jill ft. Killer Mike, Jeezy
Big Boi – Kill Jill ft. Killer Mike,...
Dj Iceman-Join Us (Big Boss Beats)
by Bigicedog
Dj Iceman Is back but this time with...
Voreheez – Bankroll
Voreheez – Bankroll "Atlanta's own emerging star, Voreheez,...
Future – Mask Off
New Music: Ensite – This Is For | @mcensite
New Music: Ensite – This Is For
Will Claye – "Father"
It's not very often that people are as talented
New Music: Slickrhymes – Woo Woo Woo | @slickrhymes9
New Music: Slickrhymes – Woo Woo
New Album: Xzayvier – High and Mighty (@XzayvierMusic)
It's all fresh Summer heat as Xzayvier unveils
New Mixtape: Wochee – "Letters From The Edge" | @WocheeOfficial
Wochee has released another official mixtape
New Music: DJ Afterthought Ft. Lessthan3 – "Pull Up" | @DJAfterThought @LessThan3
Pittsburgh artist DJ Afterthought teams up
New Mixtape: D De Niro – "Trap Counselor" | @DDeniro1000
D De Niro releases his new mixtape Trap
Hot Dizzy – "My Life"
Hot Dizzy keeps things moving with another
Dedicated to Bringing you only Quality HipHopVideos and News !
If you Want Your Video on Here or Want to Become a Partner or Advertise Email us at :
firstname.lastname@example.com and We will send you the details !
Enter your email address:
Delivered by FeedBurner
© 2018 HIPHOPRAPSCENE ! All rights reserved.
Video Theme by
Premium Wordpress Themes


text: Elyse Long Necklace Style: 570063168 Out of Stock Love it? Everyone else did too. This item sold out! Use our search tool, chat online or call 1.888.855.4986 to find something equally desirable. A collection of orbs, discs, and beads in a trio of finishes. Adjusts from 42" to 46". Glass, metal, and synthetic materials. Read More… Share on Facebook Tweet Pin


text:
Kate Orff:
Reviving New York's rivers — with oysters!
Architect Kate Orff sees the oyster as an agent of urban change. Bundled into beds and sunk into city rivers, oysters slurp up pollution and make legendarily dirty waters clean — thus driving even more innovation in "oyster-tecture." Orff shares her vision for an urban landscape that links nature and humanity for mutual benefit.
Similar topics
- Architecture
- Biology
- Cities
- Design
This talk was presented at an official TED conference, and was featured by our editors on the home page.
Related talks
Learn more
76 comments
Enthusiastically agree? Respectfully beg to differ? Have your say here.
Log in to comment Don't have an account? Sign up now — it's fast and free.
Sort comments by
There are currently no comments for this talk.