text:
Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Aug 7, 2013.
Like Stuckey?
You point out an exception in order to make a rule?
When your nick name is "super collider" it is only natural that your game is a paradox.
I don't think that players do change. At least not fundamentally. Brandon Jennings will never be Chris Paul, but I don't think we want him to either. They may add a dimension to their game, maybe two (in rare cases). But rarely does a player completely change their game. Carmelo Anthony never turned into a defensive minded passer, and he never would. Luc Mbah a Moute, by the same token, will never have the same offensive focus or talent as Melo. When you look at Lebron, this is a guy who has pretty much averaged 25/8/6 every single season. All that changed is he got more efficient, worked on his jumpshot, and got better on defense. But the focus and energy was always there, only the skill level changed. But he was always a complete player. When you think breakout, you probably think Steph Curry. But the guy was always a lights out shooter and a great passer. Has he got better, sure, but those were always his skills. He hasn't changed as a player.
First impression is also hard to be changed but condiments might be paled up by our desire.
Chauncey changed his game quite a bit when he was coached by Larry Brown.
What time is it now ? You wake up early or still awake ? You said that you are looking after you health Sir.
You caught me. It is 2.13 AM and I am trying to finish one last thing for a client.
You may have pointed out an exception here !
I agree with all of this, but I'll add that the primary reason for this is that it isn't until they get to the NBA that anyone ever tells them that they "need to change." Up until then, they've had hundreds - if not thousands - of people defining their identity as a player. If they're confident enough to get to this level, they usually end up with a chip on their shoulder and/or a posse telling them that it's the GM's or coach's fault, not their skill. And when they are skilled, it's hard to get them to change because they've been working to improve on their strengths for so long that the idea of putting in long hours improving their weaknesses and using (and demonstrating) those weaknesses in-game (where they need to be used in order to improve) is a deeply uncomfortable notion. So mostly they just fall back on old habits, and then tell themselves that they can't change. This, I think, is where a developmental league would be helpful for the NBA, for teaching the youngsters how to do things they can't. Sure, for example, Drummond would just destroy everyone down there statistically, but it would also be a safe place to work on his offensive game - unlike now, where a missed or airballed hook shot would be seen by hundreds of thousands or millions of people and may cost his team an important game.
They have a league like this. It's called the National Basketball Developmental League. ...The Pistons rarely if ever take advantage of it. (Siva?, Mitchell?)
I'm aware of the NBADL, and you're right - nobody ever takes advantage of it. It's a shame.
CB did not fundamentally change his game under Brown. First of all, to change a game, a game must be established. CB had his real break out year under Carlisle. One year does not make a "nature." Further, pretty much the only thing that Brown did do to Billups game is make him, and everybody else on the team, concentrate a lot more on getting the ball inside. Brown's philosophy of trying to get the ball inside as long as there was still 5 seconds on the clock meant that Billups could not nail a three early in the clock. And that is it. The way Billups operated did not change. But if his first move to get the ball inside was thrawted, he simply attempted another way to get the ball inside, instead of shooting. CB's signature move, to dart inside, and make a crisp, and correct, pass before the defense could react, never changed. Indeed, he had to end up doing it more under Brown, as he was called upon to do whatever it took to get that ball inside - again, until there was five seconds or less on the clock.
Great players can evolve their game as time goes on to adjust to events beyond their control like injuries, old age etc. Good players can make incremental changes to their game and improve year after year. Mediocre players realize they need to improve their game, but don't have the necessary talent (or interest) to do so. Boneheaded players are not even aware that there is something that needs improving. There are no players that can change their identity. A scorer will always be a scorer. A defender will always be a defender. A hustle guy will always be a hustle guy.
Tempted to report this post due to it's off topic content. This is a basketball forum, sir.
The Captain always gets a free pass.......
A rotation. Just 7 guys in it. Jennings, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond start. Siva, Smith, Mitchell, Monroe, Drummond, this unit plays the last 4 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters. Jennings, Pope, Mitchell, Smith, Monroe, this unit plays the first 4 minutes of the 2nd and 4th. Jennings, Pope, Mitchell, Monroe, Drummond, this unit plays the middle 4 minutes of the 2nd and 4th. Jennings, Pope, Mitchell, Smith, Drummond, this unit plays the last 4 minutes of the 2nd and 4th. For minutes, Siva 8, Mitchell 32, Jennings 40, Pope 40, Smith 40, Monroe 40, Drummond 40
Siva is too short to defend NBA PGs.
Not at all. Watch the Knicks game, if you missed it. Siva played and matched up very well defensively.
Separate names with a comma.


text:
San Francisco SPCA Expands "Community Cares" Initiative to Bring Vital Animal Care to Local Neighborhoods [1]Date:
The San Francisco SPCA is proud to announce the continuation of its Community Cares Initiative, developed to enhance the availability of free and low-cost animal care to neighborhoods across San Francisco. The SF SPCA will be hosting 2011's first mobile vaccine clinic on March 26 at Bayview Park, providing free Distemper-Hepatitis-Parvovirus (DHP) vaccines to dogs of local residents. Launched in 2010, last year's mobile vaccine clinics vaccinated more than 800 dogs and coordinated more than 150 free spay/neuter procedures for Bay Area pets in 2010.
"The Community Cares Initiative is an exciting, hands-on outreach effort that allows the SF SPCA to directly interact with communities in the most need of our services," said Laura Gretch, community cares manager at the SF SPCA. "It's truly inspiring to see neighborhoods come together at events like our mobile vaccine clinics and learn how they can make a positive difference in the lives of their pets and the larger community."
The SF SPCA's Community Cares Initiative consists of two main programs, including:
- Feral Fix: The SF SPCA's flagship effort to curb feral cat overpopulation in San Francisco through a trap, spay/neuter and return program.
- Mobile Vaccine Clinic: A mobile clinic that brings free and discounted animal care to targeted communities identified as lacking core veterinary services in San Francisco. In addition to free vaccinations, pet owners who visit the mobile clinic are offered a free spay/neuter surgery for their pet at the SF SPCA's Spay/Neuter Clinic [2].
Consistent throughout all of the Community Cares programs is a concentrated effort to educate the city's pet owners about the importance of responsible pet guardianship.
The season's first Mobile Vaccine Clinic will take place in Bayview Park on March 26, from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. Subsequent clinics will occur monthly through October 2011. SF SPCA veterinary technicians will be on hand during each event to administer free vaccines, and members of the SF SPCA behavior and training team will work with dog guardians to share training tips. Additionally, staff from the SF SPCA Humane Education and Youth Programs department will host kid-friendly activities and teach the importance of spay/neuter, proper veterinary care and general animal knowledge.

subset: commoncrawl


text: Sports Mag insists that Tayshaun was actively recruiting Nazr before the end of the season. I wonder if there is any truth to this? Secondly, Tayshaun will be the face of the franchise, you heard it here first. Tay is Flips KG reincarnation, this season will be his best and more is yet to come for this young man. I am a Tayshaun person, if he left detroit, I would truly become upset, this move would probably change my view of Joe D. Well, I won't have to worry about Tay, he could have easily took more money and played elsewhere, however, he is one loyal and humble dude. Look for Tay to score 20 PPG, ribbies will go up considerably as well as steals and three pointers. Matter of fact, I expect to see him at the top of the list in 3 pointers made.


text:
Phone: 503-823-5288
Fax: 503-823-5384
1120 SW 5th Avenue, Rm 1250, Portland, OR 97204
Phone: 503-823-5288
Fax: 503-823-5384
1120 SW 5th Avenue, Rm 1250, Portland, OR 97204
On December 16, 2009, Portland City Council passed a resolution requiring all City Bureaus to include at least one minority evaluator in the procurement award process.
As a result of passing this resolution, the City of Portland Procurement Services partnered with the Alliance of Minority Chambers to build the Minority Evaluator Program (MEP). The Minority Evaluator Program (MEP) will serve our internal staff and external partner (Alliance of Minority Chambers) by ensuring that there are diverse and qualified evaluators to serve on the various panels that award city contracts.
If you are interested in the program or have further questions about your participation call Tiffani Penson at 503.823.7785 or email firstname.lastname@example.com
You may also sign up directly through the Alliance of Minority Chambers website.


text:
Posted by George Colony on January 22, 2014
Here at the World Economic Forum annual meeting in Davos, I moderated a CEO discussion on "The New Digital Context" (video below). Thank you to my panelists Marissa Mayer (Yahoo), Marc Benioff (salesforce.com), John Chambers (Cisco), Randall Stephenson (AT&T), and Gavin Patterson (BT).
We are in the age of the customer, where technology is dramatically accelerating the shift in power from institutions to individuals, forcing organizations to be with their customers as they move through time and space.
My big takeaways from the panel:


text:
The Canisius College men's soccer team lost to Niagara on Wednesday night, 1-0. The Griffs drop to 6-7-2 on the season and 2-4-1 in MAAC play, while the Purple Eagles improve to 4-10-1 and 2-4-1 against league foes.
"For the most part, I thought we played well tonight," said Canisius head coach Dermot McGrane. "We got the ball into the dangerous areas but I thought the quality of our finishing wasn't good enough and that is what cost us tonight."
After a scoreless first frame, Niagara would net the game's only goal in the 65th minute of play. Nick Garcia took the ball and scored from 20 yards out into the top left corner of the goal, giving the Purple Eagles the lead.
Canisius had a number of opportunities to draw even but couldn't capitalize. Junior Asani Samuels forced a diving save in the 74th minute. In the 87th minute, freshman Thomas Teupen headed a ball toward the net off a long throw-in only to see a Niagara defender head the ball off the line and preserve the victory.
The Griffs controlled the pace of the game with a 20-9 advantage in shots on night. Both Canisius' Ryan Arvin and Niagara's Brenden Ottman posted four saves.
Canisius returns to action on Saturday, hosting Iona at the Demske Sports Complex. Game time between the two MAAC foes is set for 7 p.m.


text:
You have no items in your shopping cart.
2nd Grade Reading LP 5 Pack
2nd Grade Reading LP 5-Pack [ LP-R215 ]
If you already have the LP Bases that you need, the five pack will get you all of the 2nd Grade Reading curriculum and save you a couple bucks from buying each title individually.Learn More
Learning Palette Base [ LP-B100 ]
The Learning Palette Base works for all Grades and all Titles. The unique clear lid acts as a storage device between uses making it ieasy to keep track of the loose pieces. Learn More
Replacement Disks [ LP-BD01 ]
Because of the great storage design of the LP Base and lid, the disks used to answer the questions rarely get lost. However, if they do, feel free to order a new set of 12, (2 each of 6 colors, 6 solids and 6 with holes in the middle). Learn More


text:
When you have a 100% sealed item here's the simple steps you need to do in order to boost up a weapon/equip of your choice.
1. You must have a 100% (full) 'sealed' item: Sealed Chest (lvl10) Sealed Ring (lvl9) Sealed Necklace (lvl 8); Sealed Mirror (lvl 7) Sealed Bead (lvl 6)Sealed Talisman(lvl 5); Sealed Gourd (lvl4); Sealed Orb (lvl 3); Sealed Stone (lvl 2) and Sealed Charm (lvl 1) The lower level the item, the better stats it will be, and the smaller the sucess rate.
2. You must find a Bookstore Keeper and search for a scroll (i.e If you have a full Sealed Ring, buy the scroll that says "Scroll required to combine Sealed Ring with equipment") that best describes your sealed item.
3. Then here comes the fun part! Exit the store and click on Soul Fusion and put the scroll you have just bought on the left box that says: Fusion Scroll then in the right box "Equipment" drag the item tyou want to upgrade in that box (it may not work, first unequip it first) and put the full sealed item in the top box.
4. You can now press the button "Fusion" and a purple ring (your souls) will start to circle around the items quickly and at the end your item will be upgraded!
Sealed Chest: +1 Weapon attack or +2 Weapon defense 100%
Sealed Ring: +2 Weapon attack or +4 Weapon defense 90%
Sealed Necklace: +3 Weapon attack or +6 Weapon defense 80%
Sealed Mirror: +4 Weapon attack or +8 Weapon defense 70%
Sealed Beads: +5 Weapon attack or +10 Weapon defense 60%
Sealed Talisman: +6 Weapon attack or +12 Weapon defense 50%
Sealed Gourd: +7 Weapon attack or +14 Weapon defense 40%
Sealed Orb: +8 Weapon attack or +16 Weapon defense 30%
Sealed Stone: +9 Weapon attack or +18 Weapon defense 20%
Sealed Charm: +10 Weapon attack or +20 Weapon defense 10%
(I am unsure about the percantages, but I think they are correct!)
Happy Fusioning! I hope it is a success! (Then it rains confetti and stuff)
Good Luck! If you are having problems, please tell me without further notice, or email me at firstname.lastname@example.com, NO SPAM!


text:
Good morning, everybody!
What a wonderful day today, even the weather is not so wonderful. Our company Star Photography can make any day of your life bright and shiny only with one click! Check our package deals at http://www.bestcheapphotographer.com or call us any time at 330-506-1562! We are able to do any types of photos, in studio or life time, any kind of editing, any amount of work. We are certified and licensed.
If you are looking for cheap photographer, you found it! Star Photography is the most affordable photo service in all Northeast OH - Pittsburgh PA area USA.
Do not hesitate to call or to contact through email at email@example.com
Cheap Photographer
Started by professionalphoto, Apr 27 2012 12:24 PM
No replies to this topic
Reply to this topic
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


text:
"Card turned out beautiful. Image quality of the picture we used in the back was perfect. Cards arrived within a few days of ordering."
"We recently moved and sent this card to friend and family. We received so many complements on how cute the card was and that they loved the photo on the back. I love the front because it feels like a cute/fun neighborhood and it truly represented our new home and our new neighbors/friends."
"We used these announcements for an elderly aunt who we had to move into assisted living. We wanted something cheerful and this fit the bill: so bright and happy! Since we were on a budget, I loved that you could "downgrade" to a straight edge and eliminate any extra costs; but I thought all of the edging options looked great. I also liked that the text was 100% customizable. These arrived faster than I expected and were the usual good quality card stock. I highly recommend."
"A classy looking card. I ordered the modified rectangular envelopes so I wouldn't have to pay extra postage and was very pleased with the result, and the cards came several days earlier than expected."
"I am discerning shopper and a self admitted perfectionist! Well with that being said- I had absolutely nothing but positive remarks regarding Tiny Prints. The cards were even better quality then I had expected for the cost. The printing was perfect, the paper were a thicker quality.. I heard comments like "it was so classy".. We will be return shoppers for sure! In fact, I just ordered Invites from Tiny Prints sister website- Wedding Paper Divas."
Copyright © 2004-2017 Shutterfly, Inc | Tiny Prints | Terms of Use. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.


text:
This is non SW, but I hope some of you can help. My little brother just graduated from San Francisco Acedemy of the Arts. He just submitted his first project to Threadless. They make T-Shirts with up and coming artists designs on them. There is just one caviat... the design they choose is actually chosen by you (votes by the public). If anyone here is so inclined, can they visit the link below and check out his pitch? If you like it, please vote for it. Maybe he can do some artwork for you someday, who knows.
Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. If you wouldn't mind, post if you vote. That way he'll know who to thank, (and maybe who he owes a favor to).


text:
- Home
- News
- Sports
- Opinion
- Obituaries
- Features
- Special Sections
- Classifieds
- Public Notices
The Fourth of July is time for families and friends not only to get together to celebrate freedom but also to eat.
Picnics and cookouts are everywhere on Independence Day and cooks like to add a little of the red, white and blue to food as well as décor.
This can be done with colorful berries, a variety of colorful gelatin options, sprinkled or iced cookies or, with the help of some food coloring, cake.
A red, white and blue cake looks great on a table with a patriotic theme.
There are recipes for cakes that are made from scratch but one also can be made by using a white cake mix. For the three layer cake, two boxes work.
After following the mixture instructions, divide the batter into three equal parts. Leave one white and use food paste gels to color the other two batters, one red and one blue. Regular food coloring would work as well but the gels often give richer color.
Pour each batter into its own round cake pan and bake.
After the cakes come out of the oven, cool the layers before icing.
While the cake is cooling, make the icing. You can use the kind bought from a store if you don't have time, but making icing from scratch is not hard at all and gives a great taste to the cake.
There are a variety of options for cake icing but the easiest ones often are found right on the package of powdered sugar or on the manufacturer's website.
Plain buttercream icing only has four ingredients and is easy to make. Add all the ingredients, mix with an electric mixer and you're done.
After the icing is finished, it's time to build the cake. Start with the red layer and top with a layer of icing. Then repeat with the white and blue levels. After the cake is built, ice the top and sides.
Remember, the cake doesn't have to be perfect. I have never made a layered cake that didn't turn out lopsided. If it's tasty, a little lopsidedness won't hurt.
Top the cake with red, white and blue sprinkles for an added touch, or add blueberries and strawberries.
When you cut into the cake you get a festive looking red, white and blue cake just right for the occasion.
While my cake was a success, the Fourth of July fruit drink was a failure.
The recipe is included if you want to give it a try but what the writer of the recipe failed to do is be a little more exact with the kind of fruit punch and Gatorade used to keep the liquids separated. After trying several different combinations, none looked as good as the photo on the site.
The photo showed distinct and equal layers of red, white and blue liquid in the glass. This weekend's result looked more like a purplish mess with a faint hint of red near the bottom of the glass.
Give it a try if you want and see if you can find the right combination.
Becca Owsley can be reached at (270) 505-1741 or email@example.com.
I used two boxes of white cake mix for the cake but if you want to make the cake from scratch follow this recipe.
Red, White and Blue Cake
2 1/2 cups cake flour
1 tablespoon baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 1/4 cups buttermilk
4 large egg whites
1 1/2 cups granulated white sugar
1/2 cup (1 stick) unsalted butter
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
red and blue gel paste coloring
Center two racks in the oven and preheat oven to 350°F. Spray three 8 or 9-inch round cake pans with nonstick spray. Add a spoonful of flour to each, shake it around and tap out the excess.
Sift together flour, baking powder and salt. Whisk together buttermilk and egg whites in a medium bowl. In a large separate, large bowl, use an electric mixer to blend together butter and sugar; beat at medium speed for a full three minutes, until the mixture is very light. Beat in the extract, then add one third of the flour mixture, still beating on medium speed. Beat in half of the buttermilk-egg mixture, then beat in half of the remaining dry ingredients until incorporated. Add the rest of the buttermilk and eggs, then add the last of the dry ingredients. Finally, give the batter a good two minute beating to ensure that it is thoroughly mixed and well aerated. Divide the batter evenly between three glass bowls. Color two of the bowls of batter- one dark red and one dark blue. Just add the color a little at a time until you reach the hue you'd like. Scoop each of the batters into their own prepared pan.
Bake for 20 to 25 minutes for 8-inch rounds (15 to 20 for 9-inch), or until the cakes have risen and are springy to the touch- a toothpick inserted into the centers should come out clean. Transfer cakes to cooling racks and cool for about 5 minutes, then run a knife around the sides of the cakes. Invert and cool to room temperature right side up on wire racks. When cooled, frost the cake as you would a 3-layer cake, frosting each layer before adding the next, and then covering the whole cake with frosting too
Buttercream Frosting
3 3/4 cups (1 lb. box) Domino® Confectioners Sugar
1/2 cup butter (1 stick), softened
3 to 4 tablespoons milk
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
In a large bowl with electric mixer at low speed, combine sugar, butter, milk and vanilla. Beat at medium speed one to two minutes until creamy. If desired, add more milk until frosting is spreading consistency.
Makes enough to fill and frost a 2-layer cake, a 13x9x2-inch sheet cake or 24 cupcakes.
Domino Sugar recipe
4th of July Kiddie Mocktails (Adapted from Family Fun magazine)
3 ounces fruit punch
3 ounces blue Gatorade (not sugar-free)
3 ounces diet7-Up or Sprite (must be sugar-free, so diet only)
Fill glass 1/3 full with ice cubes. Pour fruit punch almost (but not quite) to top of ice cubes. Fill another 1/3 with ice cubes and slowly pour blue Gatorade almost to top of cubes. Fill final 1/3 ice cubes and slowly pour sugar-free Sprite.
Add new comment
Read and share your thoughts on this story


text:
- Home
- News
- Sports
- Opinion
- Obituaries
- Features
- Special Sections
- Classifieds
- Public Notices
Five nights a week, Bomar Chaudoin drives a mail truck from Elizabethtown to Louisville with a Little Debbie snack in his shirt pocket for when he gets hungry later.
If you currently subscribe or have subscribed in the past to the The News Enterprise, then simply find your account number on your mailing label and enter it below.
Click the question mark below to see where your account ID appears on your mailing label.
If you are new to the award winning The News Enterprise and wish to get a subscription or simply gain access to our online content then please enter your ZIP code below and continue to setup your account.
|ZIP Code:


text:
|Ford Focus Purchasing Center Discuss about special incentives and ordering information on the Focus & Focus ST.
|Topic Review (Newest First)
|If you have USAA, I also recommend it, I used it to build the cars I was finding on dealer lots already with the color and options I wanted, and would get a nice price for the car itself.
Focus on out the door pricing and understand you will be paying TTL.
Are you pre-approved yet?
O yes and if their isn't a lien on the mini, then it's paid off even if your wife owes $8,800 to family because of it...But that's a lot of $$$ for a 2003 Mini.
|there are dealer incentives, regional incentives, finance incentives, factory incentives and lastly personal incentives. all of these are for YOU! the dealer will never tell you all of them so what you can do is call this particular dealer's competition and say "hey I was planning on buying a car from "ABC ford" but I think he isnt giving me all the incentives...he told me about this and that incentive...are there any others?" you may have to go to the other dealer but dont buy anything (unless the price is much better). after knowing all the extra incentives you have more power for the car you want. make sure you do what "NIK" said , go to all the sites and do your research prior to going there. good luck.
Thanks guys! Few questions
I want the yellow one, and this seems to be the only yellow one in my area. How do I not let this bite me in the ass.
I checked out the TMV on Edmunds it is says $24,344 after $2000 cash back incentives and includes destination. Invoice is $25,946. The dealers internet price is $23,121. I assume this includes the $2000 cash back, but I need to add destination, tags and taxes to this number?
Are there any other incentives available to me? Nik mentioned $2750 off? Does the $2000 cash back require dealer financing?
Regarding the trade in, is there anyway to maximize what we get back? We are trading my wifes 2004 Mini Cooper S with 83k miles on it, it's in great shape, but the windows just recently decided to stop rolling down. Is this going to be a problem at trade in time? Also, there is no lean on the title, my wife borrowed from her family to buy the car before we were married. However, she still owes $8800.
Tips from a car sales man
1. If you walked into my office and offered me $25,545 (and I worked stateside) I'd prob haggle with you a little bit, maybe get you to settle on 26k and call it a lovely day...Why you ask? Because we are doing $2,750 off 2012 Focuses right now. So you'd actually be doing yourself a dissservice. You could prob easily get 3k maybe 3.5k if your military.
2. Even if you walked in knowing the above, and really really wanted that one particular car it'd be quite easy to get you to pay what you I want you to pay (notice I didn't say what you want to pay) because your attached to that specific vehicle. I gotta you as a sales person there is nothing more annoying then a customer who is not narrowed down to 1 or 2 vehicles. Why? Cause it's harder to close them.
Here's what you do
1. Go get pre-approved first from your local credit union for a new car loan.
2. Go to Edmunds, TMV (True Market Value) websites etc and price that car, and see what's its going for (print that out and bring it with you)
3. If your going do a trade know the value of the trade, if your current car is financed find out what you owe on it. Know that negative equity is BAD.
4. Walk into the dealership and make them give you an offer (sometimes they will offer you less then what you want)
5. If they don't offer you what your want tell them what price your willing to pay, provide proof why, make it clear your fully prepared to make this a quick, easy, painless deal
O yea make sure you test drive the car, inspect the car, etc.
If you do that it should be pretty painless, and asking for the best deal possible is not a good way to haggle. However you should see what they can offer you. Also know about all the discounts/rebates etc in your region. Shop at the end of the month too.
|NOOOO. you never start off like that. do your research first! YOU find out what incentives you are due. for example military, law enforcement, student, find out about factory incentives, finance incentives because even if you dont want to go with ford credit if they offer a $500 finance incentive you can get that and then "refinance" with the bank of your choice. It is still a new car so you still get the "new car" rate. Anyway once you take ALL of YOUR incentives out then you start haggling... It is best if you find out what dealer cost is as I always offer 3-6% over cost and the same with options...3-6%. since this is a new design car you wont get away with much but you can still get as much as you can. I stop their BS in mid sentence with "listen boss I have seen the car, I dont need to take a test drive, this is the number I came up with, this is how I came up with it, you wont make 2 Gs off of me today but you will sell a car in 20 (the time it takes for paperwork) and I will be out of your office in that time and you will have an extra 1-1500 in your pocket. let's just stop the bs and tell me if you just want a quick sale.... BTW they also get big incentives just to move cars from ford themselves (all dealers do). put it to you like this I just (recently) picked up a 2012 avenger R/T, a 29500USD model (zero miles)... I walked out of there in 45 min with the keys and 20,700 with tax inc... they probably got 100 bucks if they were lucky BUT they got an extra 700 incentive from dodge so 800 bucks in 45 mins is awesome. I got a brand new 2011 (in 2011) fusion sport AWD 31,850 sticker price for 26,500 out the door (couldve got them for an extra 500 but didnt do enough homework as that was the day I blew up my focus). do about a week of homework or if you guys are military go through USAA, they can get some pretty insane deal every once in a while. good luck brother. depending on your incentives and timing I think you can get at LEAST 3500 off of that car. BTW I have found that the best time to buy a new car (not truck) is in November...late november at night, they always want to make one more quick sale and they need to move those 2012s before they get stuck with a 2012 in 2013...
|offer him 25 straight up and see how it goes. if its a no, go elsewhere, they'll prolly say yes then. 2k discount for a new car is pretty good. all prices on cars are negotiable
What kind of a deal can I expect?
What is the best price I can expect on this car? What kind of incentives can I get? I have pretty good credit. http://www.inventory.ford.com/servic...61237&refid=FV
|Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


text:
|Thread Tools
I have been using TiVo for over a decade and I think for what it is it has performed nicely. Overall, I have been happy with its beyond simple interface and rather complex (conflict resolution, etc) DVR features. I'm OTA only so obviously I'm only concerned about such and 99% of my viewing is done in the den. I do have a dedicated screening room (projector and such) that gets some TV use every once in a while... not even monthly. I currently have two Premiere TiVos (paid $60 each). One Premiere via the OTA special at $10 a month and its commitment runs out in a couple of months. According to TiVo I will be billed $10 a month forever... or at least until told other wise. :) The other is a non-subbed TiVo with Trick Play still active (I didn't let it update) which I can use in the dedicated room for live TV only. Of course I can't stream recordings between them however I can convert/transfer files to my NAS and use my NeoTV 550 to play them. Certainly not ideal but at the same time I have next to zero reason to do so.
Up until this last TiVo purchase I have been purchasing Lifetime and simply selling the unit when I wanted to punt (I would upgrade the drive and make a little or break even). With the OTA special I couldn't justify purchasing Lifetime so I went with monthly. As its commitment will be up shortly I see three options for me... of course others may lean towards different options.
- Keep paying $10 a month
- Purchase Lifetime for $400 (online TiVo states I can purchase it at this price for my non-subbed TiVo)
- Switch to Windows Media Center (guide service is free of charge - forever?)
Windows Media Center Hardware
- PC with i3 processor and HDMI ($255) - Best Buy closeout)
- HDHomeRun ($55 / Fry's) - http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HDHomeRun-Definition-Television-HDHR3-US/dp/B004HO58SO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343682763&sr=8-1&keywords=hdhomerun - I love these guys. They simply hide anywhere on your network and work. With their recent price drop(s) they are a steal.
- Wireless keyboard/Trackpad ($35) - http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Touch-Touchpad-Keyboard-Smart/dp/B003GU1028/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1343682825&sr =1-1&keywords=gear+head+wireless+keyboard - After several days of use I'd rate this keyboard 3 out of 4 stars. It's the right size where it's small enough to hold and large enough the easily type. The trackpad works great which is a plus. The range is fine however it seems to need a little time to get going when you first use it (the signal is received but it acts sluggish). Could use a few more WMC dedicated keys and a shift key on the right side of the keyboard.
- Remote ($16) - http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Control-Infrared-Receiver-Ultimate/dp/B00224ZDFY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1343682912&sr =1-1&keywords=wmc+remote - After a few days of use I'd rate this remote a 3.5 out of 4. It just works. Only drawbacks are a few of the key's icons are rather cryptic although there aren't many so you'll learn them quick enough. Also, the IR receiver lights up bright enough to replace Rudolph.
Windows Media Center Installation
To get up and running I first installed the HDHomeRun by connecting it to my antenna feed (it splits the one line into two) and my network. To test it out I installed the configure utility on my Mac and I was watching TV within a couple of minutes. Reception wise it appears to work as good or better than TiVo. As I have zero issues receiving my channels although I don't think they are much of a challenge. I have an outdoor antenna installed in the crawl space above my garage. Watching TV via any of your PCs or Macs is a nice feature and pretty much worth the $55 in and of itself. The tuners are shared so if WMC is using one the other is free and I believe you can have to 16 via WMC.
I gutted the PC by partitioning the drive and doing a clean installation of Windows 7 and removing virtually any program that isn't DVR related. This took much longer than configuring WMC which found my network tuners and I was watching TV in a few minutes after running WMC's Wizards. This past weekend I had it working overtime recording the Olympics and didn't have one issue either recording or viewing. All of the time I was giving the PC a going over tweaking this or that such as modifying the Desktop, Theme, etc. I also gave Hulu a try and watched an episode or two of In Plain Sight. Its low resolution stood up fairly well to the HD set (it's 61 inches) but would never be mistaken as HD. However much better than viewing on my monitor.
User Experience
So far digging into the DVR abilities I have been impressed. I wouldn't have guessed it has better conflict resolution than TiVo which I think is often an overlooked DVR feature. Living with it for a few days I noticed little features like clicking on the time bar jumps to that spot in the recording. Having TiVo features (or lack of) ingrained into my mind all of these years I find dozens of little things it simply does nicer. At this point in time TiVo's dual pausing of live TV with the ability to bounce back and forth effortlessly is the major feature I would miss. With the exception of the peanut remote. I'm still waiting on my WMC remote and overall I could live with my current keyboard but I'm not sure I would. I'm hoping the remote brings a large degree of TiVo's ease of use to WMC. If it does I think I'm hooked.
In most cases I would recommend TiVo (with Lifetime). It's simpler all around and doesn't lose much because of it. Rather it gains by making the experience more enjoyable. I didn't really cover TiVo as this is more... is WMC a valid alternative for OTA. Such as should cord cutters look its way or stay the DVR route with TiVo or Channel Master. For me WMC has plenty of features, works terrific and if the remote comes even remotely close to TiVo's ease of use I'll give it a try. For me it's more not picking WMC over TiVo rather I'm just ready for a change... a chance to tweak more and I'm almost convinced I won't pay for it by giving up ease of use. If everything goes swimmingly I might throw an Xbox into the dedicated room as use it as an extender which would allow viewing of those recordings I don't have access to now.
I have decided to switch to WMC from TiVo for a variety of reasons listed in later posts. Since my experience with WMC is anything but set in stone and continues to evolve I'll update this post from time to time to reflect my current take on several areas. The why's and how's will be covered in later posts and (hopefully) offer some insight.
Ongoing Experience
After using the remote for a week I found zero reason to use a keyboard for WMC and most everything I do. So I returned the keyboard referenced above and got this one instead. It's a more traditional keyboard and as you can see from Amazon's ratings (five star ratings are ten times the one star ratings) it simply works.
- http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Multi-Touch-920-003070/dp/B005DKZTMG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344256741&sr=8-1&keywords=logitech+k400
First off the range works for me. Second it features scrolling right underneath the mouse and the third and final winner is you can click the mouse to enter and or left click (you never have to move your finger). And the clicking takes enough effort it doesn't do it without you trying... unlike certain touchpads I won't mention. It feels reasonably well built (especially for $20), the mouse tracks better than anything I have tried and the keyboard well let's just say it does have a backlight if you want to use it. Now don't get me wrong for WMC and XBMC the remote is perfect although using this works but it isn't nearly as slick. I grab this guy when I need to run around Windows (or enter text). I hardly ever enter text so losing the more traditional keyboard is well worth it.
- http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Enhanced-Multimedia-Keyboard-57Y6678/dp/B005L2NTTQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1345335201&sr =1-1&keywords=lenova+n5902
Want to play around with WMC to see if it will work for you? WMC itself requires very little horsepower and as long as you have HDMI via your PC you should be all set. If not, you can always add a graphics card such as the one linked below. Apparently, the NVIDIA GeForce GT430 is the (low-end) card of choice. It's sold by a variety of companies with different amounts of memory. For WMC the best deal you can find should work. You'll get HDMI audio and video and even better should you decide to play HD audio (DTS-HD MA and TrueHD) it will bitstream that as well.
http://www.amazon.com/PNY-GeForce-PCI-Express-Graphics-VCGGT4301XPB/dp/B00466IP5Q/ref=pd_cp_e_2 - found this guy at Fry's for $40 with $20 rebate.
Of course you'll need an OTA tuner or two and to really get a feel of the DVR experience you'll need a remote. You can take one old (useless?) PC and add...
$40 - HDMI video card (linked to in this post)
$55 - One or more OTA tuners (linked to in this post)
$16 - Remote (linked to in this post)
A little over hundred bucks and you should be up and running. Of course you might have to hunt around or wait a while for sells to find as good or better pricing. Taking for granted you have a Windows 7 Home Premium or other license for the PC. If you give it a try be sure to use the remote as if you don't you really aren't.
Harmony Support
I picked up a Harmony remote (it supportes the same IR sensor) so I could control my TV and AVR with one remote. The remote linked above needs to be added as a ORTek VRC-1100 not a Media Center PC remote. I added a few buttons and redefined a few others and ended up with every key being mapped without any problem. Since 99.99% of the time I spend in WMC or XBMC I wanted to be able to go back and forth with the remote as well. Searching around I found this...
To playback MKV files within WMC including HD audio (bitstream) you'll have to add MKV support. It's very easy and works terrific. So much so I now use it instead of my dedicated streamer. It took roughly an hour to install. All of the software was free and pretty much worked first pass. Here's the references I used...
Note: To playback TrueHD (or PCM) you need to run 64bit Settings Application (as admin) and change MKV - Playback from Use Haali... to Use LAV's splitter. I could still stream DTS-HD MA so I didn't switch it back for the other bitstream codecs. To go beyond PCM 2.0 channel playback you need to go to Control Panel - Sound - Configure and set the actual number of speakers you will be using. Once done you need to set this back to Stereo or bitstream won't work. Without making these changes WMC will act like the files are not found, defective or whatnot. (TrueHD or PCM you either get no sound or 2.0).
If you add/run Hulu (Desktop) and XBMC via Extras you might find that when you return to WMC the interface appears frozen. To regain control simply press the Info button on your remote.
Commercial Skipping
When I first looked into commercial skipping I thought the process had to convert recordings into WMC's old file format, process, and then convert to the new format. Well that ain't so! I also (wrongly) guessed the process rewrote/altered the recording which is incorrect too. About the only fact I had right is it isn't free... one of the three apps will cost you $30. However, you get to play with it for free 30-days to decide for it's for you. Finding out the process was much cleaner than I had previously thought I was willing to give it a try. I used this engadget article for installation with success.
I had zero issues during installation and within a few minutes I had it processing my previous recordings and set to process while recording as well as afterwards. You configure how many Workers you want to run concurrently and I selected two. So if I'm recording more than two shows at a time the other shows will be processed when a Worker becomes free. I'll play around with this setting as I'm guessing it's CPU and hard drive dependent. So far two doesn't seem to have any effect on WMC's performance. You can turn commercial skipping on or off while viewing with user-defined keys.
If you are wondering about the actual process it's rather slick. The three apps basically perform the following...
Interface to WMC via Extras - big bother controlling playback (skipping over commercials)
Finding commercials
Document commercial locations (stored inside a data file)
The result is the actual recording isn't molested (no image quality hit) and can easily be enabled or disabled. So there isn't any reason not to give it a try. I plan on using my 30-days to see if I have any issues and I'm guessing by that time I'll be more than willing to spend the $30 to keep skipping...
After using this for a few days I'm guessing it works 90% or more of the time. I have only seen two occasions where I would have lost content if I didn't turn it off and skip back. The end of show preview for next week's Survivor and the closing segment on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. I'll have to check to see if it was a one time skip or not. The only other issue been has not bypassing commercials before the show begins. I start recordings one minute early and on a rare occasion it won't skip the end of the previous show (one would expect such) but also won't skip the commercials between the two shows.
Skipping forward and back
If you don't want to mess with commercial skipping you can adjust of the length of time skip forward and back uses. I increased the skip back time as typically I had to hit it two or three times (after skipping forward) or I would miss a few seconds. This link provides the details along with a few other hints.
Media PC
One of the (big) advantages of a HTPC is the ability to stream video content banned from Google TV and not available on streamers such as Hulu. Hulu offers a desktop app that's designed for a remote and your TV. I have seen where the desktop app won't reflect the same number of videos as the browser version (on rare occasions). One time my queue listed three items and logging in via my browser listed six (all six were available to be played). I guess that's' why it's still in Beta! It's free and you can download it here...
Another advantage of a HTPC is (of course) the ability to run other applications. One of the most popular is certainly XBMC. It's a (free) open source software media player and entertainment hub. It's extremely powerful and customizable. I couldn't resist giving it a try by installing the latest release. It now supports HD audio however I didn't have a lot of luck playing back MKV files with HD audio (I resolved this later by changing the rendering options). I would get a lot of video stuttering although the audio was perfect. Haven't played around enough to see if my PC isn't powerful enough or there is another issue. I do know WMC plays the same MKV files with HD audio perfectly so one way or another it's possible on my PC. Well worth giving a tryout!
XBMC - Add-ons
Free Cable
If you have cut the cord one very good reason to install XBMC is Free Cable. It's an XBMC Add-on that indexes free content available at various network sites. As such it's safe to use and you don't have to worry about what you are streaming... which is why I have avoided similar apps in the past.
It searches roughly 20 networks and its interface is slick and easy to navigate. Most of the shows are in SD however HD can be found at times. It probably won't be your main source of viewing but it comes in handy when the wife finds out she can catch a show on HGTV or Lifetime or you want to catch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
Four Tuners
I know it sounds silly. I have seven OTA channels listed in my guide and going from two to four tuners feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Last year even with TiVo's conflict resolution (such as recording a repeat if the series is set to new only and it was skipped) I ended up (or should I say my wife) missing the last couple episodes of Downton Abbey. I gave up several 2 Broke Girls episodes and missed a lot of The Voice. For some reason Monday was a hot bed and other nights nothing... Now that I have four tuners I feel absolutely rich... the freedom to record whatever I want never worrying if there will be a conflict. No, I won't be watching more TV rather I'll be enjoying the TV I do watch more.
Don't Do It!
I know I was concerned about using a PC let alone WMC as a DVR as for over a decade TiVo has served me very well. I can only remember a few recordings it didn't capture and other issues have been far between. Such as when it would reboot while viewing Netflix, lock up with the (semi) HD interface. Once I had to swap hard drives as it would reboot at times. And many, many years ago I have to send one in for service... back in the day when Sony was manufacturing them.
However almost all of those issues were issues that TiVo themselves had to resolve. Worse case you suffered through it until they released a fixed version of the software. Well with the PC/WMC that's not the case. When an issue pops up it's up to you... solve it or don't watch TV! :) As such I think it's only fair to document them so one can judge how they influence your experience. In my case since I'm still new I have been playing around a lot especially outside of WMC so I'm bound to shoot myself in the foot more often. Below I'll list my WTF moments...
- No video - I woke up the PC and everything was fine. Went into WMC to watch TV and the lovely message pops up... Video drivers not installed or not working... well since everything else displays fine that makes no sense what so ever. Long story short I have found that if you have audio issues WMC will give you such a message and it has nothing to do with your video drivers (indirectly I guess it does since in my case it's HDMI audio which is embedded into the video). In this case somehow my Denon receiver got added as a sound card twice. I'll take blame for it by playing around but it could have just happened. Can't say for sure. At that point your wife is complaining until it's resolved and you can't even watch a movie via XBMC. :) The simple fix was to remove them under Device Manager, reboot and it was automatically added (once) and started working.
- No video/audio - On rare occasions when the PC sleeps while I'm viewing TV (paused) there will be no video and or audio when it wakes up. Closing and reloading WMC typically cures the issue and I think it's unique to the PC and or the power settings. As an example the first PC I used never went to sleep in full screen but would if I had WMC in a window. This one will go to sleep in full screen mode. If you have related issues it's best to play around with your power settings.
- Flickering Image - This is well known and curable. The video will flicker (get lighter and darker) and it's the result of Intel's HD video drivers (i3, i5, etc chips) and rare recordings that have a encoded refresh error. I ran into this with a couple of shows on CBS (2 Broke Girls was one of them) and was going nuts. I couldn't figure out why CBS was having an issue when NBC and other networks using the same resolution did not. I played the episode back on my other WMC installation and it was perfect so I gave HDHomeRun a pass (original theory). After a little googling I found if you disable Adaptive Contrast Enhancement within the video drivers it's gone. While you are in there take the time to calibrate your display and disable a few other image enhancements (such as skin tone) and your image will thank you.
- If you are worrying about the PC being a power hog don't. It will go to sleep when idle and wake itself up for recordings. My PC uses roughly 2 watts asleep and around 30 - 60 watts when awake. It will wake up from hibernation and record however if it's hibernating I can't wake it up with my remote. So I use hybrid sleep (more or less desktop's version of hibernate).
- If touchpad tapping is driving you nuts like it did me the easiest fix I have found (I'm sure there are hacks and various drivers I could have installed) is to simply set the mouse's Double-click speed to the fastest setting. At this setting it doesn't get activated by mistake and I can still use it when I desire.
- With WMC recording fours shows at once my network load is roughly 6% (the 4 tuners and PC are on separate Gigabit switches).
- You can view recordings via WMC (still in process on a remote WMC) although you can only view up until the point it was recorded when you begin. Let's say it's a 2 hour recording and you begin viewing after an hour was recorded. You can only view the first hour. You can then restart the recording and view the remaining hour.
- If you find your PC waking up for seemingly no reason take a look in the Task Scheduler. I disabled various tasks or made sure they couldn't wake up the PC and I haven't spotted it waking itself up in several days outside of for recordings. If you are using hibernate instead of hybrid sleep be sure your network card's Power Management Only allow a Magic Packet to wake the computer is selected. This will prevent unrelated traffic from waking the PC.
- Disk drive utility - Once I spent the time configuring my installation I wasn't about to start over to use a larger drive, move to a SSD (Solid State Drive) or make any drive related reconfiguration. With Series recordings set up, Windows tweaked so it sleeps nicely, HD Audio configured, etc there is simply too much time invested. At the same time I wanted the ability to reconfigure the system as well as the ability to create a backup. Looking around I found Partition Wizard. The Home Edition is free and if it's disk drive related more than likely it will handle the job. It runs in Windows and if need be will boot the PC and run the task self-contained so you can even reconfigure your boot (active Windows) drive. I used it to copy (backup) my drive, resize various partitions and create partitions just for starters. When copying a drive you can even copy it to a drive of a smaller size. As an example I copied a 1TB drive to a 240GB SSD. Of course there can't be more than 240GB of files on the 1TB drive. Certainly not a utility needed for WMC however if you are jumping in with both feet it might come in very handy.
- Remote Desktop - Windows Home Premium (typical version installed on PCs) does not include the ability to log in remotely. Well you can enable this feature without upgrading to Pro or Ultimate by running the linked script. You can also enable multiple logins...
- Bypass scaling - to ensure WMC isn't applying overscan to the image set your display to Television - Tasks - settings - TV - Configure Your TV or Monitor
- If you wish to change the filename WMC uses you can customize it to include several variables. See this link for details:
Windows 8 and WMC
Since I have been bored with my WMC installation as it's rock solid. Outside of bouncing to and from Hulu and XBMC where it will lose audio (only when reloading WMC - not during one of the programs) once in a while. I decided to give Windows 8 a try along with its version of WMC. Not much to say about WMC as it's virtually identical. Outside of a couple of features being dropped such as having it auto start when Windows boots. Of course there are other ways to have it auto start. I downloaded the Windows 8 Preview and installed it on a mac mini. It doesn't include WMC but Microsoft has published a free key so you can add it after installation.
I sped through the installation and only had to stop for a minute to update the Homegroup on my working WMC PC. This allows the PC to share all of its WMC data (including TV recordings) with the new WMC PC (via Media Library). Within a couple of minutes I was watching The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. Having read WMC is identical in Windows 8 (plus last I heard it's not included (free) with any version) I wasn't let down. Still it's rather disappointing Microsoft hasn't spent any time advancing WMC. I guess they could have dropped it entirely so things could be worse.
At this point Windows Pro 8 would run me $20 (upgrade from recent PC purchase) and I'm guessing $20 - $40 for WMC? Cost wise not enough to move the Earth in any direction. If you are using your PC for WMC (only?) I see zero reason to upgrade to Windows 8... you'll end up right back where you started... that is minus a few options.
Related notes
- Commercial Skipping apps aren't supported
- There is a different version of HD audio drivers
- Numerous apps/drivers/etc used with third-party apps (such as XBMC) aren't supported
Media Center Extender
Fry's had the Xbox 360 (with Kinect) refurb on sell for $199 so I decided to give it a shot. Luckily, the Xbox 360 and all of the accessories were/looked brand new although the warranty is only 90 days. I have played around with the Xbox 360 before and it only took a few seconds to connect it to my Denon receiver and unhide the receiver's Game input. The moment I turned it on the WMC PC popped up a message requesting I enter the extender's 8-digit code of which the Xbox 360 was displaying. After a couple of minutes I was viewing a recording from my PC and watching Live TV.
Working my way through the Xbox 360's preferences I set it to go directly to Media Center when booted. Media Center looks identical to the PC's version and I had no problem guessing which buttons to use on the controller. I had already added the Xbox 360 to my Harmony and it worked great. Virtually identical to the PC with the same functions and display (such as which shows will be recorded in the guide) although the IR commands are different so you need to set up each as a device in your Harmony. Now everything isn't identical as I can't use my XBMC and HULU Extras nor HD audio with my MKV files. However MKV files will play (after installing the Optional Media Update from Live) with non HD Audio (DTS HD-MA, TrueHD). Image wise I haven't noticed any difference but it's still (extremely) early.
The Xbox 360 extender will wake the PC which is a good thing. Even though it takes a couple of minutes it will even wake the PC from hibernation. If I end up placing the PC in my dedicated room (closet) this will be real handy as I can let the PC hibernate in there until it's time for a recording or viewing via the Xbox 360 (in the den). Not sure why but it seems rather cool waking the PC (at the other end of the house) and afterwards it going back to hibernating all by itself.
Of course Kinect is useless with Media Center so all you really need is the Xbox 360 which typically can be had for $180. Which if you are only going to use it as an extender is about as high as I would go. I'm guessing for $300 (or less if you retrofit an old PC as covered above) you can get the real thing (a PC). Of course it's a PC and brings some potential headaches. However I have been issue free for basically a couple of months. In a lot of ways the Xbox 360 versus PC comes down to much like TiVo or PC... if you only want the DVR features or any of the Xbox 360 games/apps the Xbox 360 is the way to go. If you want to do anything PC related (as well) adding another PC works.
Three Month Update
Since it has been three months since I switched from TiVo to WMC I figured it was time to post an update. A few points that largely recaps the experience...
- Haven't missed one recording.
- With the start of the new Fall season I have been really using four tuners (at once).
- Virtually zero issues with Windows.
- Only updates have been Microsoft's monthly security update. Painlessly installed within a few minutes.
- With the Harmony remote it's a DVR not a PC.
Six Month Update
After six months I'm more sold on WMC than ever. Still haven't missed a recording and have had zero issues outside of one night of recordings with a little pixel breakup. Not sure if it was the HDHomeRun's beta software, network traffic or a PC issue but it hasn't occurred since.
I have upgraded to Windows 8 (to take advantage of the upgrade pricing before it expired) and added a Xbox 360 as an extender. Both have painlessly fit in. Even as I tend to fiddle with the installation quite a bit such as installing beta drivers, various video cards, etc the system has remained an appliance... it simply works. With Windows 8 pricing it doesn't offer the same bang for your buck however it still offers features the other solutions don't. Not so much WMC rather the PC environment which enables other applications such as XBMC. In the cases where it's the best solution to a large degree it has increased its advantages.
The latest release of XBMC which supports DVRing has failed to impress and TiVo's Mini (solution) isn't even available to OTA only users so I don't see me leaving WMC anytime soon.
Nine Month Update
WMC has been flawless and I still haven't missed a recording. Having four tuners now is a requirement as on a regular basis (several nights) I'm recording three and four shows at once. I even hit five the other day however WMC was smart enough to pickup the fifth (on PBS) when it repeated. I didn't know WMC was that smart! I know TiVo does such and always thought it was one of its advantages.
A while back I cloned my disk (increasing its size) and the drive proved to be rather noisy. So I ended up switching back to the original drive and this time instead of cloning I did a fresh install of Windows 8 and started from scratch. However since I only have an upgrade Windows 8 Pro license I had to install Windows 7 (via Dell's USB stick) and then run the upgrade process.
It wasn't fun and took a couple of hours but it was painless. The longest (manual) process was changing the priority of my 40 or so scheduled series. Once everything was in place I copied my recordings back and even being a watch and delete person I had quite a few hours waiting on me.
I re-installed Windows for the simply reason I have stopped using various software programs and utilities (all non WMC related) and decided I would clean up the box while I was switching drives. It was working perfectly and it was strictly a tweaking desire or anal retention moment. At this point I am more or less freezing the box as is... XBMC and WMC and treating it like an appliance. No more tweaking around so I thought it was a good time to remove any remnants of other software.
After nine months I appreciate WMC more than ever and it meets my needs to a tee. Only thing of interest on the horizon is Project:Connect of which I don't see a viable DVR aspect anytime soon.
One Year Anniversary
Time sure flies. As it stands today I have two WMC HTPCs. One is in my dedicated room (theater per se) and the other my desktop (work PC) in the den which is connected to the TV as a second monitor. Now in a week who knows what my configuration will be... perhaps three WMC HTPCs or back to using an Xbox. However one thing I do know is WMC isn't going anywhere. Both computers are running Windows 8.1 Pro Preview of which I like better than Windows 8 Pro. Just enough of a difference to be an improvement but not enough to throw the world adrift.
After a year it's more what hasn't changed than what has changed. XBMC's backend/Live TV offering isn't worth considering unless you want to cut your nose off to spite your face. After using it for several weeks it's doable although the user interface is so lacking it turns your HTPC into a computer certainly not a DVR. SilconDust hasn't even shipped their new tuners related to Project Connect not to mention no hint of a DVR service.
So WMC wins by default (as before). Not that it couldn't hold its own in a lot of cases. I wouldn't switch back to TiVo if it was free. That is unless TiVo drastically altered their hardware offerings... at least four OTA tuners and OTA Mini support. At that point I'd look to see what it costs...
Over the year I can remember two instances where my recordings were an issue. Ok maybe three... the time I deleted all of the series' schedules when I thought I selected delete all recording history. One was when lightning stuck close by and there was a power surge on my network. I lost a few network cards (in PCs) and one of my tuners struggled to find the network. After x minutes it would connect and work 100%. The other when I was playing with iSCSI and having WMC record directly to my NAS. Messing around I removed access to the R drive (used for recordings).
In each case I can't blame WMC nor really its environment. Using iSCSI is some what living on the edge even though it seems to have been worked out and perfectly stable at this point. Bottom line 99% of users aren't going to expose themselves in this way. This leaves WMC reliable as TiVo was for over the decade I use it. It had a few reboots out of the blue, bad disc, and even a repair trip among its adventures.
Since WMC is frozen (at best) I certainly won't go into all of the things I wish it could do... rather I'll simply say in most cases it does what it needs to do and does it very nicely to boot. So much so I look forward to another great year...
Two Year Anniversary
Time appears to be flying even faster and now it's been two years. Short story is I'm still using WMC and I'm as happy as ever. The silly thing simply works. The one actual issue I ran into over the last year turned out to be the station's and TiVo didn't handle it any better (I purchased a new Roamio thinking I would switch and it was returned).
Over the last year I have used various WMC configurations involving different computers, locations and extenders. However I'm back to more or less my original configuration as it simply works and requires the least investment. I try not to invest (spend money on) items that only relate to WMC. Up to now I have purchased 4 tuners and one Xbox E for a whopping $220 investment. This is because as much as I like (love?) WMC I'm not married to it and if something comes along better I'll punt. Or how about if the guide stops being updated...
Currently I use my Den's desktop for WMC and it's connected to my TV as a second monitor. There are a couple of drawbacks but not enough that I can justify using a dedicated computer for WMC. One being to use my harmony remote WMC has to be the active window. So fast-forwarding through commercials and such can be a pain if/when I'm using the desktop as a desktop. The other is a few times a year I might want to reboot my PC while recordings are underway.
Recordings have been working like a champ. The only issue I had was iSCSI related (recording directly to my NAS) and I believe I have that resolved. It appears Microsoft's Defender was to blame and after changing to Norton I haven't seen it at all. Details are posted earlier in the thread. WMC has been rock solid on my desktop.
Off and on I have used ServerWMC and the WMC add-on for XBMC and have been very impressed. To the point the low-end NUC or ASUS Chromebox (both a little over $150) are the best extender solution in my eyes. Heck you can even use a Fire TV ($99) with XBMC/WMC... now that's a low-end powerful extender.
In my case I'm using a custom built HTPC as my extender (in my dedicated room) simply because I wanted to build a PC and movie playback is what counts in there... since I installed Windows 7 it has WMC covered. The Xbox is in the exercise room collecting dust. At some point the PC I just built might become my desktop which just might free up the current desktop and let it morph into a stand alone connected to the TV. With perhaps a Chromebox in the dedicated room (or the new Celeron NUC) running OpenELEC/XBMC.
Back to the Roamio for a minute. Now that TiVo offers client/server I think they are pretty hard to beat for your typical installation (mine not being one of them). I have yet to see any of the other solutions offer enough to make any savings remotely worthwhile. I would rate the new Tablo as getting close.
Cord cutting wise I find roughly two months a year where OTA only isn't enough per se. I have roughly 40 series scheduled and most of the year a backlog of recordings. Typically, I subscribe to Netflix or give Roku a try during those periods and by the time I have run through what interests me OTA has once again backed up and I'm good to go.
All and all I would have to give WMC an A+ over the last two years. Any issues have come from my "advanced" playing and it's certainly not fair to blame WMC. At this time I can't dream of a reason not to keep going...
Long Live Windows Media Center
March 2015 I stopped using WMC and started using DVBLink. It wasn't because DVBLink is natively a better solution. Rather my desire migrated elsewhere where I wasn't giving up too much and I gained a few things in return. I'll quote the post where I discussed why to some degree.
My Windows Media Center days are gone. Approaching two weeks since I have used it and I must say I don't miss it at all. I have have a couple of bumps during the transfer process. Such as WMC recording at the same time as DVBLink and running out of tuners. Bottom line I'm giving up recording intelligence (better Repeat logic, conflict resolution, etc) and gaining the ability to be PC less for recordings. Along with something new. After almost three years I was ready for a change.
My NAS is scheduled to wake up at 6 pm and powers down at 2 am (WoL for clients and maintenance). While alive it does all of the recordings and stores them locally. It's completely self-contained. I can manage my recordings with Kodi or any browser via the DVBLink interface. The browser interface is rather plain Jane but it comes in handy for your typical maintenance. Easier than Remote Desktop and or powering up the PC.
Now I have to thank or curse RTK (Rick) for his suggestion to look at Kodi's Titan MediaBrowser skin. I don't think I would have switched if I hadn't. It took a couple of hours to configure but once I did my user experience was superior to WMC. Now for those advanced thinkers yes I can use Kodi with WMC via ServerWMC so that's irrelevant. However it isn't on one level. It introduces enough of a change that I'm willing to change other things right along with it... if that makes sense.
Again the real swap is taking a PC out of service and re-purposing it. Letting my NAS handle recordings and having a client for viewing. I like that I'm not relying on a PC for recordings. It was never really an issue but it just feels better knowing you don't have to worry about a PC being up. Also, my viewing is done via clients which are completely independent of the recording process so no matter what they can't influence it. In the past I have used my desktop or a dedicated PC for both recording and viewing.
During the process I did give TiVo a passing thought but I watch a fair of TV on my desktop and I can have the identical interface as my clients. Only difference is I tweaked the skin for mouse support versus a remote.
Is DVBLink better than WMC? On a generic level I would recommend WMC. In my case I give DVBLink 51%. If they educate the recording logic a fair degree it will be closer to 75%. My buy in was roughly $50 in software (NAS recordings apps) and $30 annually for guide data. The data comes from the same service TiVo uses. Unfortunately DVBLink doesn't implement a few options based on the guide data that TiVo does... hence my earlier comment.
If you have any interest there is a similar DVBLink thread linked in my signature with lots of pretty pictures and a little information. I leave WMC with more affection than when I started and I'm certainly not running from it. Rather I'm looking forward to something new I'll hopefully appreciate to the same degree.
Last edited by Charles R; 04-20-2015 at 08:01 AM.
To me Tivo is a superior DVR if that's all you care about, but WMC has much more in the way of add-ons (such as comskip) and of course it can do all the other stuff a PC can do. Plus it's cheaper to run on multiple sets since you can use Xboxes as extenders (or get one of the discontinued Linksys et al boxes on fleabay) and you might only need one Cablecard if you go with cable.
I run both Tivos and WMC in my house, and mostly care about the DVR features so stick with Tivo for almost everything. WMC is only used for overflow recording and live TV on secondary sets.
I read about WMC's lack of in the comparison. (later I found out if you sort recordings by title they are placed in folders). It would be nice to have although I'm a record/watch/delete kind of guy. If I want to keep anything around I'd transfer it to my NAS anyway. Speaking of my NAS I like how WMC can record directly to it. This way I don't have to worry about disk space on the PC or TiVo wise cover the cost of upgrading the drive. I do prefer how WMC displays its recordings. In general its interface looks/feels slicker.
Searching / Wish lists
Luckily, I never do such and have never used TiVo's suggestions in over a decade.
Comparing them myself I think one of the biggest advantages WMC has is the fact it supports network OTA tuners. It will support up to four digital OTA tuners versus TiVo's two. Which can come in handy especially if you end up using extenders with WMC. Also, having the ability to view TV via any of your PCs and Macs is an added bonus. I spend a tremendous amount of time in front of my monitor and having the ability to casually view TV (in the background) works.
Local streaming
I have used TiVo for DVD playback with great success via MKV with native video and audio. Wasn't fun transferring the files to TiVo but it was virtually painless. Now with WMC it's a whole new ball game. It took me roughly an hour to install support for MKV and HD Audio (via bitstream). All of the software was free and pretty much worked first pass. Here's the references I used...
The only issue I ran into was the article stated: To use SPDIF/HDMI output - Go into Control Panel\Sound and make sure S/PDIF is your default output mode. I tried this and lost all audio so I switched back to HDMI (Denon receiver) and it worked... including bitstreaming DTS-HD MA anf TrueHD.
Power Usage
One concern I had switching to a PC versus TiVo was power usage. Not so much the added cost rather the wastefulness. Well it turns out Windows 7 will sleep and wake itself up for recordings and then go back to sleep. While sleeping my PC only uses 2 watts. It does use more (35-70 watts) while viewing. So I'm guessing overall the PC as a DVR will be more green than TiVo.
One Week Later
After using WMC for a week I have decided to switch (for good?). If I was looking for a single TV and 100% DVR usage I'd stay with TiVo. However, even with my modest desires WMC and or its related hardware offers too many advantages. Why would I stay with TiVo? The best example is the peanut remote versus the WMC remote. It just works and for what it does it does it wonderfully. At the same time there aren't tons of other features available for you to take advantage of which is a negative. But at the same time the experience (limited as it is) remains virtually flawless. To a small extent think Apple versus Microsoft.
For me WMC advantages (along with the environment it brings) I couldn't pass on...
- The ability to stream/view HD audio/video including TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. The PC/WMC replaces my dedicated media player.
- PC comes to the TV. Instead of the streaming Hulu on my PC I can view it via the 10 foot interface Hulu app on my TV. This is just one example of having a PC connected to your TV.
- Viewing TV on my PCs and Macs via the HDHomeRun tuners. Not to mention WMC supports more tuners than TiVo.
- Ability to use Xbox 360 as extenders. I'll probably end up with the PC in my dedicated (projector) room and an Xbox in the den for TV viewing.
- DVR interface - It's all HD and considerably nicer looking and offers more features.
Now WMC isn't perfect. In my installation I have noticed when I stop pausing a recording (while it is recording other shows) it takes a second to sync up the image. It might be my lack of horsepower (both CPU and video) as I'm using an i3 and whatever video capabilities you get with a $255 PC (not much). Luckily, it doesn't do it with skip forward or reverse or I would have punted.
With my previous attempts to use WMC I always tried to use a (multimedia) wireless keyboard and its drawbacks were too many (since viewing TV is job one) to offset the numerous advantages it offers. Using a dedicated remote (perhaps Harmony down the road) levels the playing field enough (however it still came up short) that I can't resist switching. I think I'm gaining much more than I'm leaving behind.
I've always anticipated that if TiVo went down I would have to transition to a HTPC, hence my reason for setting up a media-PC to do HDTV recording and other media service tasks except for playback.
- kelson h
The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine
I agree with you. You would think some of the streamer guys would support it. Much like I don't understand why they haven't added support for HDHomeRun. Simple.tv is trying to provide such a service with Roku (and other supported devices). Regarding Xbox I believe the older models are supported however they are jet engine loud from my understanding. Also, TiVo is introducing an extender although I haven't read all of the details. It should be out this fall.
The lack of WMC acceptance played a big part in me dismissing it. Finally, I accepted it like any other solution if it does what I want at this point in time... so be it. The latest 4GB (diskless) models are best priced around $180 and very quiet. Again, I'm not that familiar with them but from what I understand TV viewing works great and the other WMC features not so much. If TiVo's extenders end up being killer (such as no monthly fee and reasonably priced) I'll probably revisit my decision. The only hardware I can't repurpose would be the HDHomeRun tuner and at $55 it's worth it just for viewing on my Macs/PCs.
There are a number of open source and commercial PC DVR packages. I'm using NextPVR on my Win XP based media-PC. As a DVR it is a far cry from a TiVo but I only use it for recording shows I want to collect as a series over the season for watching as a block over the summer and for that it does the job very well -- name based recording with the ability to filter out repeats; the Schedules Direct guide service is only $25/yr. I suppose I should give WMC a whirl on my main Win-7 PC, but I don't have the desire to even launch it. The software that comes with the HD Homerun is perfectly fine for watching a live TV window on any of my PC's.
Oh, you made the comment about being able to record directly to your NAS with the HTPC. There is a line of Netgear ReadyNAS units that have TiVo servers built in. In my case I have TiVo Desktop server running on my media-PC which can automatically pull a capture off the TiVo and put it on one of my NAS units as soon as it is done recording. From there I can stream it anywhere in the house. WD Live players are selling for only $80.
For me, I don't see it as an either/or situation -- I find that I have a lot of value for having both TiVo and media-PC. The TiVo is our networked DVR and the media-PC runs 24x7 doing everything else. At this point, I won't give up either, I want them both. At the present, we only have one main viewing room that I feel needs a DVR so only one TiVo. By the end of this year we will be getting a second large plasma for a new second viewing area -- as long as they are in business, I won't think twice about getting another TiVo for the DVR. I may also feel compelled to upgrade the 10 yr old hardware that is currently my media-PC.
Good luck with your setup, but don't throw away your TiVo. After the initial glow of WMC wears off, turn your thoughts to consider the possibilities if you integrated the two.
- kelson h
The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine
My understanding is that WMC will not be a standard feature of Win 8.
There is a line of Netgear ReadyNAS units that have TiVo servers built in. In my case I have TiVo Desktop server running on my media-PC which can automatically pull a capture off the TiVo and put it on one of my NAS units as soon as it is done recording. From there I can stream it anywhere in the house. WD Live players are selling for only $80.
For me, I don't see it as an either/or situation -- I find that I have a lot of value for having both TiVo and media-PC.
Good luck with your setup, but don't throw away your TiVo. After the initial glow of WMC wears off, turn your thoughts to consider the possibilities if you integrated the two.
I think WMC will only be included in the Pro version. Who knows perhaps selling it as an add-on might give it more exposure. Hopefully, it will be (greatly) improved or I'll see no reason to upgrade.
I have a ReadyNAS that will archive my TiVo recordings. It does leave it in TiVo's format. I also have a WD TV Live (exercise room). Converting and viewing on another device doesn't interest me. Most of my viewing is commercial delayed only. So as I'm viewing content it is still being recorded. Once viewed I typically have zero interest in seeing it again. This is why I haven't even looked at the utilities to cut out commercials. Lastly, I only watch TV in the den so I don't have any other locations. With the exception of my dedicated room. With my projector it's 99% HD movie streaming. If I want to expand TV into there I'd throw the WMC computer in its electronic closet and use an extender in the den.
Bandwidth wise I should be good as I have bounced around several 1080p streams over the network without issue. My TiVo's are already on eBay... the only thing I'm really giving up is the $10 a month OTA billing. I just can't see paying monthly (even the $10) and as I covered earlier the cost of Lifetime ($400) buys me WMC and its related advantages. WMC isn't glowing I'm just ready for a change. Today I caught the last few episodes of In Plain Sight via Hulu's 10 foot interface app. When I went OTA only a couple of years back I used to keep up on a few series via Hulu but eventually I got tired of watching them on my Mac. Having them available on the TV brings new life to them and surprisingly so the quality isn't as bad as I thought.
Since 2000 I have left TiVo several times. Even for a few years at a time but have always made my way back... so I'm sure they aren't worried. :)
This is the part that seems incongruous to me -- having to buy a game console to use as an extender. It would have been much better if WMC had caught on enough for actual extenders to have been profitable enough to stay in the market. I'm not familiar with XBox but I see there are many models with a large range of prices -- some are quite expensive to be bought solely as a WMC extender. If one had no interest in gaming and just wanted the cheapest Xbox to use as an extender, what model Xbox would you have to buy and how much does it cost.
I've always anticipated that if TiVo went down I would have to transition to a HTPC, hence my reason for setting up a media-PC to do HDTV recording and other media service tasks except for playback.
AH, but you can cruise through craigslist ads and find plenty of used Xbox 360's for $100 or less. Doesn't even matter if the disc drive is wonky, as long as it streams video, you're good to go. I've picked up two in the last few weeks this way. One for $90 and the other one with a sticky disc drive for $60. They both work fine as extenders. Once I buy a dual tuner HD Homerun unit and a 2TB hdd, my upgraded ota media server set-up will be complete! My wife and I are seriously considering going to ota and streaming services for our entertainment after my last son graduates from high school next year. The one thing I like WMC better than a Tivo is the fact it is a whole lot cheaper to go with a multi room option.
The only thing I can add to this is to definitely check out My Channel Logos. It costs a couple bucks, but makes the Guide a lot more enjoyable to use.
Edit: I can't speak in regards to current TiVo products, I haven't owned one since the Series 2 (649) went out of style. But, given the unholy force it took to unsubscribe from their service, I definitely won't be giving them another penny.
Edit 2: We have Logitech Harmony remotes of various models on all of our TVs (pretty much required for Wife Acceptance Factor). Nothing has a mouse or keyboard plugged into it.
- kelson h
The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine
I think the secret (at least for me) is the remote. In the past I played around with it via a keyboard and quickly got tired of the user interface. This guy is only $16 and includes an IR receiver if you want to use a Harmony or other remote.
Today, I played a HD movie (MKV format) complete with DTS-HD MA and it worked wonderfully. Even the skip forward and reverse buttons were supported and implemented better than the dedicated streamer I was using.
Now, with that remote, would I be able to easily use that cursor for general internet usage? I ask, because there's a ton of stuff I'd like to stream directly from there. I really don't want to have to use a keyboard for that, plus, with the DVR, I'll have the control all-in-one.
Now, with that remote, would I be able to easily use that cursor for general internet usage? I ask, because there's a ton of stuff I'd like to stream directly from there. I really don't want to have to use a keyboard for that, plus, with the DVR, I'll have the control all-in-one.
The cursor on the remote actually works rather nicely. I used Windows to speed it up and it tracks very smoothly. Of course you're missing a keyboard. Since I like the remote so much I ended up returning the keyboard I linked to previously and purchased this guy for $30. It's more a traditional keyboard that works great versus being oriented to WMC (didn't need that since the remote works so well) and it was some what flaky.
If you want to stream via Hulu be sure to download their 10 foot app. It's designed to be used with a remote and works great on a TV.
Regarding power usage my PC is sleeping fine when idle and wakes up roughly 6 minutes before a recording is scheduled. If I have something scheduled for 9 (currently I have WMC set to begin recordings a minute early if possible) it wakes up at 8:53... I don't know what it does during those extra six minutes... :)
Charles, it might be good if you updated your post #1 to reflect your latest equipment recommendations?
I have thought of that however I don't want to leave out the ongoing discovery aspect as I think it has some value. Also, it doesn't come across as a billboard for WMC which can get dismissed at times. I know I have run across them in the past and without seeing the journey it's rather difficult seeing yourself getting there.
I think I'll add a few ongoing sections to the first post... perhaps Hardware, WMC, Media PC and Misc which can recap various ongoing posts. This way the gory details will still be posted with a quick overview being available.
So for me the question is not WMC vs. TiVo but rather, does WMC offer me anything over competing open source DVR products that I'm using now. Right off the bat, WMC has a huge strike against it that poses a significant energy barrier to me even turning it on -- it is mired in DRM and records to a proprietary file format that media streamers do not understand. WMC is geared to cable-card tuners and honoring Pay-TV's copy restrictions. I am strictly OTA and don't have to deal with any such restrictions. The PC-DVR software I'm using currently, NextPVR, records the incoming stream as a .ts file to a NAS unit which just about any media player will play -- my media players are essentially my extenders.
So, every time a thread like this puts a burr under my saddle to give WMC a try, I eventually come back to the whole file format thing and ask, "why bother". It's not a piece of software I would ever use in my home systems for that reason alone. So I am pro-TiVo and I am pro-Media-PC, but because of the way my home entertainment network has established itself, I can never be pro-WMC. Best of luck to the rest of you.
- kelson h
The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine
Right off the bat, WMC has a huge strike against it that poses a significant energy barrier to me even turning it on -- it is mired in DRM and records to a proprietary file format that media streamers do not understand. WMC is geared to cable-card tuners and honoring Pay-TV's copy restrictions.
Energy barrier? My WMC uses 2 watts most of the day (up to 7 if you include the network tuners actively streaming). DRM? Since when are TiVo recordings not a proprietary format? I won't even bother to address the pay-TV aspect as it's so far off topic and I rather this thread remain a what can WMC offer versus why I won't use it.
- kelson h
The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine
So for me the question is not WMC vs. TiVo but rather, does WMC offer me anything over competing open source DVR products that I'm using now. Right off the bat, WMC has a huge strike against it that poses a significant energy barrier to me even turning it on -- it is mired in DRM and records to a proprietary file format that media streamers do not understand. WMC is geared to cable-card tuners and honoring Pay-TV's copy restrictions. I am strictly OTA and don't have to deal with any such restrictions. The PC-DVR software I'm using currently, NextPVR, records the incoming stream as a .ts file to a NAS unit which just about any media player will play -- my media players are essentially my extenders.
DRM only applies to cable recordings which have been flagged as copy-once, which is usually only paid premium content (HBO, etc, unless you're on Time Warner). None of that applies to OTA recordings.
The DVR-MS (Vista and earlier) and WTV formats (Win7), despite being proprietary, are both well-understood and easily handled by most current playback/editing software. VLC can play them, and Handbrake has no problem encoding them, for instance.
I've been a Linux and all-around open source guy for 15 years now. The only Windows system I have in my house is my HTPC *because* WMC blows away any of the open source offerings in both simplicity (of use and configuration) and flexibility (what media it will consume and how/where I can consume it).
Network Bandwidth
If you are using HDHomeRun tuners you can easily see how much bandwidth will be required. Their installation/configuration utility provides realtime usage. Here's an image for various stations... the first two are 1080i and the last two 720p. Of course they yo-yo to a degree so a little leeway would come in handy.
Three Weeks Later
I'll more or less put a bow on my initial experience of switching from TiVo to WMC. Upfront, I can't recommend one over the other as one's individual requirements will lean one to being the better solution. For me (at this time) it turned out to be WMC (I have already sold one of my TiVos and other is up for sale). If one is looking for information about WMC/HTPCs I found there is a bunch in the HTPC forum here and I highly recommend reading a few of the stickies... I wish I had before I started.
DVR wise WMC has been stellar. Recording all of the Olympics along with a few series, individual recordings and whatnot it hasn't missed a beat. It wakes up from sleep (if need be) and goes back to sleep once recorded. I spend a lot of time in the room and even though the TiVo wasn't loud I really like the absolute silence of the PC being asleep. The remote isn't a peanut but all in all works wonderfully. Much better than I would have guessed. Definitely gives you a DVR experience.
I happened to run into another PC on clearance and ended up swapping. I was surprised how effortless it was to get everything configured as before. I did copy all of the downloads (such as HDMI HD audio drivers) to a separate disk. I have all of the programs, drivers, etc stored in a WMC directory so I don't have to hunt all over the Internet trying to remember what I need to download and where to find it. I also created a very short README file in the directory that lists a half dozen or so settings to be used during configuration. As an example the three changes I need to make to the default HD Audio settings. This will come in rather handy if I decide to swap PCs down the road. All told it took perhaps two hours to duplicate the installation.
The new PC is a i3 processor (which supports HD audio), 6GB RAM, 1TB drive and happens to be a tower. It's actually quieter running than the mini-tower it replaced and much quieter than TiVo. I ended up throwing in a 3TD drive which has my media files. I removed it from a ReadyNAS since its only purpose was to serve the media. So switching to WMC I dropped the NeoTV 550 (streamer) and NAS. WMC and XBMC play the HD MKV files (with HD audio) perfectly so I didn't need the streamer any longer.
I ended up spending...
- $300 - PC as listed above
- $55 - HDHomeRun - dual tuners
- $16 - WMC remote with IR sensor
- $20 - wireless keyboard
Roughly the $400 it would have cost me to purchase Lifetime on my second TiVo. I would have stopped using the first one at that point. Starting fresh Lifetime would cost $500 (plus the cost of TiVo). In my case I sold off the NeoTV 550 and ReadyNAS. Along with selling the two TiVos my out of pocket is actually negative. Without purchasing Lifetime I could have continued to pay $10 a month with TiVo... while no longer available to new subscribers it's still a bargain.
Passing Thoughts
I do get the urge to play around with the PC from time to time. Mostly because it's still new and I'm adding features and after a while I will think of it more as an appliance. Such as Windows 8 ships in October and the Pro upgrade is only $30 and includes WMC... hopefully the urge will pass real soon. More than once the wife has complained about the WMC window being hidden by another. :)
The other day I realized I didn't have easy access to the HDHomeRun as it's installed in my electronic closet. I placed it next all of other electronic gear and the cover is screwed into place. I guess it says good things about it since I haven't had to touch it in close to a month. Still debating if I want to install a second HDHomeRun for a total of four tuners. The additional tuners might come in handy as at times I'd like to record three shows at once or if I decide to use a few extenders around the house.
If you are looking for a media server XBMC is beyond cool. My PC is 95%+ dedicated to WMC/DVRing however if you have any interest in such it's extremely easy to justify switching. It's painless to install and you'll be streaming HD video and audio within an hour. It's so customizable and feature packed you could replace all of your TV hours tweaking. :)
To summarize if one overlooks the installation (not that it's difficult) I'd say WMC is perhaps on even ground with TiVo as a DVR. TiVo is easier to use with WMC offering more features and a nicer interface. The moment you want to use the PC for something else (such as streaming Hulu, local playback, etc) it's no contest. You aren't really giving up anything and you're gaining a whole lot.
I broke down and installed the second HDHomeRun (2 tuners). After updating the firmware I noticed it didn't receive OTA signals as strongly as the first one. Also, the power supply plug didn't fit tightly so I swapped it and the replacement works as well as the one I have been using. For WMC to find the new tuners I had to uninstall the HDHomeRun configuration utility and then reinstall it. During its installation it noted the 2 additional tuners as being new... so I guess it had to bless them in some manner before the system knew about them (at least WMC). For fun I recorded 4 shows at once and my network load was roughly 6%. The tuners and PC are on separate Gigabit switches.
Here's a shot of them installed in the closet... for some reason I really like these guys.
- TV - recorded TV - add recording - Channel and Time
There are plenty of Frequency options you can use... almost as many as them old VCR's had. :)
From the picture you posted above, you have a much more sophisticated system I have. I am at the low end with just a netbook, HD Homerun, and Mohu Leaf indoor antenna. I do have a 1080P projector that I watch everything on. I hook the HD Homerun directly to the netbook via the Ethernet cable, not thing fancy like streaming and stuff like that. The advantage of my system is that it is portable. I can and have traveled with my system in a carry-on bag (excluding the projector).
I'm glad you found some value.
Somewhat funny story... I sold my last TiVo yesterday and my wife saw it sitting upstairs ready to ship and said we don't have TiVo any longer in a sort of sad way. I said we haven't for around a month now. Then she said we won't have TiVo in the house any longer as in it's getting shipped. I asked her what will she miss and her answer made me laugh... I like the little guy (their logo/guy pops up on several screens).
Actually, my installation is beyond simple. I had thought of using a laptop however I used my wife's laptop twice to transfer files from a USB drive to another USB drive or NAS and after a few hours it slowed to a crawl. The entire process should have taken 12 hours (or so) but it was going to take days. I think it was heat related where it automatically slowed down the processor or whatnot. What sold me 100% was getting an i3 processor for $300 or less. WMC (DVR wise) couldn't care less but it gives me HD Audio effortlessly and allows me to stream MKV HD video/audio files. At that point it replaced two pieces of equipment and became a slam dunk.
1. Swapping tuners, tivo-style, is this out? (i.e. using the Live TV button to switch between tuners maintaining the pause point.) I think you mentioned this initially, but have you found any solution that allows this or is relatively easy? I can't seem to find anything definitive on the web.
2. Grouping of series. If you've recorded more than one episode of a given program, are they grouped into a folder? And are they named by title, sortable by date recorded?
3. Do you find the guide data accurate? Especially WRT to sports?
|Tivo , wmc
|Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


text:
2012 Starcraft Freedom 180T
18'11", 89" beam.
Olive color for both hunting and fishing.
Mercury 90hp 4 stroke tiller (Mercury under warranty until April 2017)
Big Tiller handle
SS prop
Shorelander Galvanized single axle bunk trailer with swing tongue
Custom snap on travel and mooring cover.
3 bank battery charger
Motorguide Wireless Series Bowmount with built in transducer; 24 volt, 75lb thrust.
One Deka starting battery; two Deka AGM Gel no maintenance trolling motor batteries.
Lowrance HDS 5 sonar/gps combo with Structure Scan
3 seats and 4 seat bases
8 Ram Rod Holder bases
Full livewell and bilge pump
This rig is in great condition and is ready for fishing or hunting.