text:
Masa alay yang tidak bisa terulang kembali.
Saya merindukan kalian.
Senior High School
Masa alay yang tidak bisa terulang kembali.
Saya merindukan kalian.
Senior High School
The half people used symbol black and white to call contrast, conflict, and time. The world still rumble on
… the pivot. Planet and star discovered and disappeared be dust. People born and killed because starving, war, or disaster. Public money was stolen leaders didn't careless. The bar had been burned because a guy loss girl. Family divorced and represented by lawyer on the green table. Or the couple broke up without explanation. "The real world" was dirty, hard, bad, and damn.
The other side, first, you and someone gone to the movie theater and a boy paid all the bill. After that, you drunk juice, and ate popcorn at the same time while enjoy watching the movie. Second, you visited the restaurant or coffee shop, so talk about movie or secrets. Third, you saw some compact dish or some book what popular one's but you didn't buy.
We have limited life behind the wall movie theater, wing words fell on paper book or card, and pop tone swayed from musical instrument. "The holy world" was created by human. Neither you nor me couldn't life that always fake and impossible.
500 days of summer show "the black and white world". The gray indeed that showed strange cause couple blind similar like movie, book, and pop song. Tom was remember lovely memories about Summer effect. He get hurt because Summer will married with some guy.
Finally, He sure destiny: hurt, and beauty side created by God. But movie, book, and pop song always help to find the meaning of the world.
To be continue
If you're single woman, the mean index, surely, you like a single man handsome, rich, and smart enough. The classic reasons were handsome help child face, rich will scroll social level, and smart can be nice conversation. Its like a "hors d'oeuvre". Small bite and precious moment: salty, sour or spicy, light, and fresh.
Love is possible.
Specially, responsible. The man should responsible who love. If fourth combine together its complete. All ladies give attention to love you.
If the story only have one would be forget. Complete story need beauty side ( face, religions, etc.) , moral, and intellectual who responsible love. Because serious story was written by reflection between character writer and conversation. And then, audience will married with its.
Pride and prejudice start "hors d'oeuvre story" consist until modern era. The woman era who has ever seen before. Time by time. Story begin when single women and single man met at party, attention, and last married. A simple like that
… made interest is Elisabeth always throw naughty critic so bite mind, and little spicy.
To be continue
"Do you remember me?"
"All of you. Why you call me?"
"Mr. Han have some advice. He said my time is short.
I'll tell ya if we're meeting at 18.00 a.m. at Cinere near Pasar Segar tomorrow. I'll treat you."
Mr.Han is arabian and english teacher. Though he isn't counseling. But he very multi talent. Number wahid. When we've a problem on school. We met Mr.Han. We never care nethink other students.
Three years we always be a problem because I am flirting her cause she has lion hair. Childish! She was a wisest and sexy student specialist bahasa. Every years, she always be a finalist english competition. Somehow, why she chose accounting class!? Look the number She always complain. Perhaps her brain sliding. Or she wasn't norm.
Two years ago we've never say hello. Hi, 'big Ona.' How do you do? The twelve days, twelve months, and two thousand twelve years. 121212. Ona date with new campus friend, Putra. People will be replaced with someone who is always other side. So far, I don't expect to much. I am jealous. On the other side, I was lucky man become somebody beside her, best friend. Formerly. She always exposed problems after our close. Her father died She life with a little brother, Iboy, and now Mr. Han said that her life short.
"Happy birthday, Ona, on 20 years. Hopefully Ona happy long life, God bless you healthy, and get great score on your study."
And then, what I'd to say when we meet. Messy! I'm just nethink about you. First, MBA problems. Married By Accident. Her boyfriend didn't wanna responsible. What?! Sound like stupid dramas. I love you and I'll charge. I swear I love you.
Second, Ona break up. It would be fun 'opportunities, combination and permutation'. Suddenly, her boyfriend come give free courses: the mountain man, muscle body, black belt karate and I think He doesn't like math. I am finish!
Third, Ona escaped from the hospital. I started to be believe Ona will die.
Fourth, I don't say anything, sorry and fear break the mood.
Fifth, She doesn't norm and I'd faint.
Answer the paper students from 'A' to 'E'. All answer look right. Multiple choice! Build a critical mind. Circular! Need highly confidence to appropriate choose one to five. Unfortunately, the simple math analysis isn't same as life. Uncertainty and more options to grow up.
On the chest of a scraggy man had no shame
Who are visible only bones
Sweat as gravel wet a shirt and smell medical oil
Hands, neck, and body striped like a java tiger
Still a man couldn't swim
Play slide water
And rock style?
Only exception
The border between Jakarta and Depok
Sail only love provision without preparation
A small fortune or a small foolish will sink and death
Not be dog shit who broom the wind
If it rains on roadside
To catch a cold
To float on ditch
Completing tragedy
Story "kerokan" and accidents in early December
Ona has not two bodies. Ona was unchange. Look prettier. We say hello and talk history. Tense. I was wrong. Always wrong. Wrong about bad thoughts and bad thoughts in the end up mad. In a fact, Ona break up cause they doesn't match with 'killing machine man'. They relate only one half years. She's nice and wasn't sick (mad). She said just want to more gathering cause age nobody knows.
Krutttt! sound the stomact, not sound fart.
We laugh. As was at canteen school. Coffee shop deserted. I'm getting wild. Its mean the stomach tiger hungry to be filled. Without thinking we order same dish. Shouldn't in Coffee Shop order some cup of coffee right? Fried rice and warm tea at second order came. I'm sorry I was screwed your diet program. Actually, order for Ona too cause I don't look silly have two stomach.
"Are you want hiking together?" Not something about married.
"Will see, fad."
"You want to courting?"
"Will see, fad. We grow up, fad. Boyfriend or girlfriend only to high school teenager." And the atmosphere fickle. Ona look around then crying. "I'm trauma, courting made me prostitute woman before married. He abuse, hit, and kiss me on public when he want. Psychopath!" I believe, a problem wasn't like hiking the mountains courting.
"So I will"
Kopitiam Oey
Cinere, Between South Jakarta and Depok
Desember 1st, 2014
My Favorite Spot
South Jakarta


text:
CHICAGO – The 2017 Tribeca Film Festival was not all about film. Besides showcasing Immersive and Virtual Reality programming, this edition of the festival opened up submissions from independent television pilot creators for the first time. One of the four finalists that were accepted to the "Tribeca: TV" portion of the festival was "Lost & Found," created and directed by Haroula Rose, who is from the nearby Chicago suburb of Lincolnwood, Ill.
The Savages
Decalogue: HollywoodChicago.com Evaluates Films From 2000 to 2009Submitted by PatrickMcD on January 15, 2010 - 12:32am
CHICAGO – In developing Top Ten film lists every year, the "critic" tends to move on and simply forget what they said in previous annual evaluations. Patrick McDonald of HollywoodChicago.com looks back, with less fear than expected.
HollywoodChicago.com Hookup: 30 Admit-Two Passes to Chicago Screening of 'Adventureland' From 'Superbad' DirectorSubmitted by HollywoodChicago.com on March 18, 2009 - 3:16pm
CHICAGO – In our latest edition of HollywoodChicago.com Hookup: Film, we have 30 admit-two passes up for grabs to the Chicago screening of "Adventureland," which stars Jesse Eisenberg, Kristen Stewart (from "Twilight" and the "New Moon" sequel "The Twilight Saga's New Moon"), Kristen Wiig, Bill Hader, Wendie Malick, Kelsey Ford, Michael Zegen and Matt Bush from "Superbad" director Greg Mottola.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Explore Tennessee Volunteers and more!
The Vols first varsity team in 1909.
Group photograph of UT Athletics (1912).
UT Students-- Let's see how many people we can fit in here??? (undated)
Michael Jackson/Jackson 5 @ UT, 1985
UT Cheerleaders (circa 1950, AR.0018)
Can you find Coach Holly Warlick in this picture? UT Lady Volunteers Basketball Team (circa 1976-1985)
UT Basketball, (circa 1902-1903)
Take me out to the ball game... UT Baseball Team (circa 1892)
Early UT Sports (circa 1918, AR.0018)
UT Faculty Basketball Game- AR.0045 (undated)


text:
Thank you for joining my newsletter called "Full of Vim".
While you wait for your newsletter to arrive, why not explore my site:
Work with Marilyn towards Energizing Health for both Body & Earth.
From there you can choose your category of interest.
Once again, thanks… and I look forward to getting to know you and your thoughts better. 🙂
Warm regards,
Marilyn Williams
135 total views, 1 views today


text:
How do private and public language service providers keep up with the changing world of translation technologies?
Almost 600 participants attended the 3rd edition of the #TranslatingEurope Forum, devoted this year to translation tools and technologies. During 16 sessions and hands-on workshops, 54 speakers from the translation industry, EU and national institutions, the academia and the IT sector addressed the topic from different perspectives, highlighting the needs and priorities of all actors of the translation world. VP Georgieva and the keynote speakers of the two days, Andrew Bredenkamp and Jost Zetzsche, set the tone for the discussions, inspiring and motivating participants to embrace technologies in order to thrive in the profession. Special attention was given to involve young translators and translation students in the discussion, in the tradition of the #TranslatingEurope Forum. You can consult all conference documentation below.


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Thermaltake V1 CPU Cooler
The V1 is designed to fit all socket 775, AM2, 939, 940 and 754 motherboards. The specs are very similar to those from the MaxOrb we tested just the other day. It will be interesting to see which cooler is better considering that the cost of ownership is comparable but the design is so much different.
The Thermaltake V1 uses a 3-pin power connector on the fan with a rheostat that is attached with an 8 inch wire. It may be possible to place the fan adjuster outside of the case if you get creative with any extra openings on the back plate.
PRICING: You can find products similar to this one for sale below.
United States: Find other tech and computer products like this over at Amazon's website.
United Kingdom: Find other tech and computer products like this over at Amazon UK's website.
Canada: Find other tech and computer products like this over at Amazon Canada's website.
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text:
What is JotForm?
JotForm is a free online form builder which helps you create online forms without writing a single line of code. No sign-up required.
At JotForm, we want to make sure that you're getting the online form builder help that you need. Our friendly customer support team is available 24/7.
We believe that if one user has a question, there could be more users who may have the same question. This is why many of our support forum threads are public and available to be searched and viewed. If you'd like help immediately, feel free to search for a similar question, or submit your question or concern.
My form shows a warning message that the information will be sent ver an insecure connectionAsked by bmccombs on June 21, 2017 at 11:51 AM
Hi folks,
I'm setting up a form with enough customizations that I had to host the source code locally rather than embed the form. The page is routed to a "thank you" page to process the results of the form. One or the other of these features causes this browser warning to pop up upon submission:
"The information you have entered on this page will be sent over an insecure connection and could be read by a third party. Are you sure you want to send this information?"
Do you know what I'll need to do to prevent users from getting this message? Do I need to use HTTPS? I'm already encrypting the data, but the browser doesn't know that.
Any advice?
JotForm Support
Hey Ken - We can certainly help you out with this if we could at least have a look at the form itself. However, you mentioned you hosted it locally, using the full source code.
If there's a way for you to host the form online on your website or server, that would be great. Just share with us the URL so we can have a closer look. If that's not possible too, let us know the URL of the form you're currently working on.
In the interim, the warning message you posted means there's a resource on the form (e.g. a URL, an image, etc.) that is being loaded from a plain http page. Firing up the browser's console logs should give you a good idea on which element triggers this. And fixing it would mean you just need to ensure all links/images are being loaded from an https source.
Another possible reason is if you're not using the https URL of your form.
For example:
The 2 URLs above are pointing to the same form, but the 1st one is not secured.
Related guide: Where-to-Find-My-Form-URL


text:
Patient Preferences
Deodorant, Antiperspirant Use During Radiation Therapy for Breast Cancer Not DetrimentalJuly 25, 2017
Use of antiperspirant or deodorant does not adversely affect potential for dermal toxicity or surface concentrations of aluminum in the axilla in women undergoing radiation therapy for breast cancer.
Accurate View of Prognosis Ensures Terminally Ill Make Value-Consistent EOL-Care DecisionsJuly 10, 2017
Most terminally ill patients have accurate prognostic awareness of their condition and tend to become more aware as their condition deteriorates.
Long Term Survivors of Prostate Cancer Express Treatment Decision Regret for Up to 15 YearsJuly 10, 2017
Study results show that patients with prostate cancer express treatment decision regret, with concerns regarding sexual function, bowel function, and PSA most commonly associated with regret.
Poll: Many Seniors Struggling With Drug Costs Don't Seek HelpJuly 05, 2017
Roughly half of older Americans experiencing difficulty paying for needed drugs did not talk to their physicians about the issue, poll shows.
Fat Grafting May Lead to Better Outcomes in Postmastectomy Breast ReconstructionJuly 04, 2017
Fat grafting provides benefits to women with breast cancer considering their options for postmastectomy breast reconstruction, even though this study shows that patient-reported outcomes are similar among women who did and did not undergo the procedure.
Significance of Prostate Cancer Treatment-Related Factors Differ in Black, White MenJune 19, 2017
A survey of men with prostate cancer revealed that treatment-related factors impact treatment decisions differently in black men compared with white men.
Breast Cancer Diagnosis and Nurse Navigation SurveyJune 16, 2017
A patient survey was designed to examine patient views of their initial breast cancer diagnosis process and care management.
Positive Clinical Effects Seen for Placebos Without DeceptionJune 06, 2017
Open-label placebos can be effective, according to five studies involving patients with IBS, depression, allergic rhinitis, back pain, and ADHD.
Mastectomy vs BCT: Understanding Women's Treatment Choice for Early-Stage Breast CancerMay 16, 2017
Canadian investigators sought to understand the factors that influence the treatment choices of women with early-stage breast cancer.
PAS: Internet Info Can Affect Parent Trust in Doctors' DiagnosisMay 09, 2017
Computer-generated diagnoses may mislead patients or parents, research indicates.
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Thyroid is more likely to be managed with surgical intervention when patients have access to expanded health insurance.
Recommendations Against Contralateral Prophylactic Mastectomy Not Tied to Patient SatisfactionApril 21, 2017
Study finds patients are not more likely to report dissatisfaction, seek a second opinion, or change doctors due to physician recommendations against CPM.
Contralateral Prophylactic Mastectomies for Early Stage Invasive Breast Cancer Vary by StateApril 10, 2017
The proportion of women with invasive early-stage unilateral breast cancer electing CPM has increased significantly, and varies across US states.
Postoperative Outcomes Similar With Mobile App Follow-up for Ambulatory Breast ReconstructionApril 03, 2017
Follow-up via mobile app similar to in-person postoperative visits for low-risk ambulatory patients after breast reconstruction.
Survey Reveals Research Priorities for Cancer Patients, Oncology NursesMarch 29, 2017
Palliative care and end-of-life care are top research priorities for oncology patients and nurses.
Shared Decision-making Visits Improved Comfort With Lung Cancer Screening DecisionsMarch 28, 2017
Patients were more comfortable with their decisions about lung cancer screening after a shared decision-making visit.
Many Breast Cancer Survivors Remain Inactive After TreatmentMarch 09, 2017
Despite the known benefits of physical activity for breast cancer survivors, a large proportion of this population continues to be physically inactive after treatment.
Majority of Health Care Providers Can Offer Cost EstimatesMarch 08, 2017
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Fewer Americans Trying to Lose WeightMarch 07, 2017
More individuals in the United States are overweight and obese than two decades ago, but fewer are trying to shed pounds.
Financial Toxicity Impacts Prescription Drug Adherence in Patients With Cancer and SurvivorsMarch 03, 2017
Researchers found that non-elderly cancer survivors may be particularly vulnerable to financial toxicity.
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text:
|Story Views
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|(Sept. 29, 2016 – Source: Dilip Vishwanat/Getty Images North America)
I say that loosely. I feel like it's more like… they know he's out there…
Yes, it's true the Yankees have inquired about Matt Holliday, but they are also very much in the mix for guys like Carlos Beltran and Edwin Encarnacion as well.
According to Jon Heyman…
|(July 27, 2016 – Source: Rob Foldy/Getty Images North America)
"In addition to the previously mentioned Chapman and Kenley Jansen as Yankees targets, plus hitting stars Carlos Beltran, Edwin Encarnacion, Yoenis Cespedes and Jose Bautista, the Yankees have called upon several more top free-agent hitters, including Dexter Fowler, Matt Holliday, Mike Napoli and Brandon Moss, and are believed to have checked in with the better starting pitchers on the market, including Rich Hill and Jason Hammel."
|(Oct. 29, 2016 – Source: Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images North America)
Yeah, that's right. Dexter Fowler of the Cubs is on that list as well as Mike Napoli. We wrote about Napoli in MIKE NAPOLI IS NOT A NEW YORK YANKEE. Check it out.
But Holliday is an interesting one. I mean, he still has pop in his bat, he's 36 years old though. You gotta wonder if this is just another Travis Hafner type situation all over again.
|(July 3, 2013 – Source: Hannah Foslien/Getty Images North America)
Bronx Baseball Daily writes of Holliday: "Holliday finished the season with the St. Louis Cardinals where his average dipped from 2015. In 110 games, Holliday hit .246/.322/.461. However, his home run total was up from 2015, hitting 20 home runs and driving in 62 versus four homers and 35 RBI.
|(Aug. 6, 2016 – Source: Michael Thomas/Getty Images North America)
Holliday has experienced health issues in the past; he last played at least 150 games in 2014 where he hit .272/.370/.441. However, Holliday would be a powerful bat in the lineup at DH should the Yankees choose to go that route."
Bottom line, I'm kind of over the old guys, although this is intriguing. We'll keep an eye on this though, just in case.
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text:
Dirk MacGirk
EVE Online player since the glory days of 2008. EVE "Media" pundit on The Open Comms Show and Talking in Stations.
Contact Information
- Twitter: @dirkmacgirk
- Discord Name: Dirk MacGirk
My Articles
The Ghost Isn't Gone
The term "ghost training" in EVE Online harkens back to a bug that allowed players to train any skills on a character after their subscription has died. Its origins date back to early EVE, a time before skill queues (of any…
The New Forum Experience
As noted in a previous article, CCP recently unveiled the new EVE Online forums. After noticing that some users were having issues with the forum tutorials, we thought it prudent to provide alook at getting started with the post-update forums….
Make Depletion Great Again
CCP Fozzie, on behalf of Team Five-O, recently announced changes coming to excavator drones and nullsec ore anomalies spawned by upgraded infrastructure hubs. Both proposals are aimed at mitigating perceived imbalances in the mineral market, since the introduction of excavator…
Musings on the CSM Election
Election season for the 12th Council of Stellar Management is upon us, and many candidates are once again vying for your attention. As a result, we see a dramatic uptick in media coverage of the candidates, issues, and the council…
Loss of a Friend: RIP BigCountry
It is with deep regret that we mourn the loss of our friend and fellow EVE Online player, Jeff "BigCountry" Waltman. BigCountry, or BC as he was known to many of us, died suddenly, yet peacefully, on November 1, 2016…
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Worshipers' "Instant Sermon" Questions
For worship on Sunday, August 23, 2015, Pastor Matt offered an "instant" sermon based on questions submitted by worshipers. At the beginning of the service, some time was provided for worshipers to write any faith question—about God, the Bible, worship practices, living out our faith in the world, whatever…—and then these questions were collected prior to the sermon time. The cards were shuffled, and Pastor Matt addressed the questions in the order they emerged from the pile.
Questions Pastor Matt addressed:
- "This week's New York Times Acrostic Puzzle is the following quote from Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn: 'It's lovely to live on a raft. We had the sky up there all speckled with stars and we used to look up and discuss about whether they was made or only just happened. Jim allowed they was made but I allowed they happened.' What do you think?
- What can we do in the world to ease the plight of the masses of immigrants fleeing such places as Syria?
- How do we as Christians explain/justify the political climate in this country? (lack of bipartisanship as one problem)
- How can I worship God in a way that will be truly pleasing to Him?
- Why do people believe that there is only one way to believe in God? One finds love, the other hate; one peace, the other war… ?
- If Jesus stated that there is a new covenant—one of a loving God—why do we still hear of God's vengeance?
- Where do you buy the bread served at communion?
- Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not 'mother God'. Why do you sometimes refer to God as Mother?
Remaining questions:
The questions above were only a small portion of all that were submitted. Here's the rest of what SCC worshipers on August 23rd were wondering about:
- What does "worship" mean to you?
- How do deepen "faith of our fathers"?
- Why did Judas betray Jesus?
- How do you learn to talk to God? And how do you speak to God?
- Guidance in knowing our limits and abilities (individually and collectively) to be the 'beacon on the hill'
- Can a camel fit through the eye of a needle?
- How can the church appeal to today's youth?
- What is the title of the sermon you just can't wait to preach?
- Why, in 2015, are Christian houses of worship so segregated racially?
- How do you / how could we respond when someone asks you to pray for an object? (For instance: a truck)
- How relevant can a confessional church be in a time when the future of religion and God is being seen experientially-based and ____ by ____ and knowledge (could not make out handwriting on missing words)
- Why do many UCC churches use debts/debtors instead of trespasses in the Lord's Prayer? Is there a significant difference?
- Where did Jesus' Y-chromosome come from?
- Is it important to have a balance of the 5 types of prayer?
- How do we decide what parts of the Bible are "the Word of the Lord"?
- At Christmas, some people make a "Jesse tree" with decorations for special people in the Bible. The one ofr John the Baptist is a scallop shell. Why? Why some of the other decorations?
- Why do we hear about men (e.g. David, Moses, Jesus) but ignore the women? Esther, Ruth, Miriam, Sarah. Let us celebrate these mighty women! (and ignore the lectionary… be brave & bold!)
- Is creationism or evolution real?
- After Jesus was crucified and resurrected he "walked with" his disciples — for how long? It thought Pastor Nancy had once said 40 days?
- God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. How do they relate and/or interact?
- Jesus referred to God as "Father" multiple times ("Our Father…"; "Father forgive them for they know not what they do") Why then do we treat God as non-gender-specific?
- Why do ministers dress with collars/stoles/etc? How did those get decided?
- What is your #1 mission in life?
- Why is there so much intolerance and violence in the Bible?
- Tell us how to maintain the Sunday message throughout the week.
- If you could ask God one question, what would it be?
- With assisted suicide in the case of terminal illness legal in some states, will someone who chooses to end their life because of illness , will that person go to hell? What is the UCC view on this? Does your view differ from this?
- How do we reconcile punishment (capital or not) for mass murderers?
- Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?
- Why? Simple… why?
Selections of these additional questions will be posted to our Facebook page in the coming days for your interaction and thoughts (and who knows, maybe some additional input from Pastor Matt…):
facebook_account http://www.facebook.com/storrscongregationalchurch


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Car won't restart without battery jump. New battery.
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Mine was doing that. I replaced the starter and it works fine now. Check the battery too.
Thanks. I'll have that checkd.
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Lifestyle News by Cole Haan
Cole Haan, the innovative American lifestyle brand and retailer, is teaming up with artists from New York City Ballet for its latest campaign, which debuts the GrandEvølution, GrandMøtion and next generation StudiøGrand collections. The brand's new Extraordinary Comes to Life campaign features dancers from New York City Ballet - this time adding Resident Choreographer and Soloist, Justin Peck, and Principal Dancer, Amar Ramasar, to the roster of long-time brand collaborators Sara Mearns, Megan Fairchild and Gretchen Smith. The brand partnership continues to emphasize the ballet's unity of athleticism and artistry, as well as the commitment Cole Haan has to designing elegantly innovative footwear and accessories.
The campaign was lensed by motion photographer Andrew Eccles, bringing to life the dancers' movements through a unique open-shutter technique. For every image of the Extraordinary Comes to Life campaign, Justin Peck orchestrated a full movement expressing each dancer's professional identity, while pulling from the language of his own recent choreography. Peck choreographed each moment to capture the elegance and performance of the new Cole Haan dual-gender GrandEvølution collection, men's GrandMøtion collection, and women's StudiøGrand collection. "Every moment in ballet is equally about the moment before and the moment to come. A dancer does not merely kick their leg up or jump. They follow a storyline of movement that includes new heights of physicality and lengths of elegant motion," says Justin Peck. "These images are about representing that greater story within a single moment."Offering optimal movement, functionality and elegance, Cole Haan's new GrandMøtion collection for men and StudiøGrand collection for women, are designed to support an active and multifaceted lifestyle, ideal for running from street-to-studio and everywhere in-between. Reinvented from the inside out and offering next-level innovation, the new GrandEvølution footwear collection is a direct evolution from Cole Haan's first Grand franchise, ØriginalGrand, adding traction and a modern look to the original outsole fluting. Performance and tradition are integrated in the sleek footwear, offering supreme comfort without sacrificing style. "These extraordinary dancers are all about grit, grace and the unity of athleticism and elegance – qualities anyone can aspire to. We built these collections with our proprietary Grand.ØS technology to move our customers throughout a packed day on their feet, in the world, and on the job," says David Maddocks, Chief Marketing Officer and General Manager of Business Development.The GrandMøtion, StudiøGrand and GrandEvølution collections are available on www.ColeHaan.com and in US and international Cole Haan Stores. The men's GrandMøtion collection ranges from $200 - $220, while the women's StudiøGrand collection is $180 - $200. The dual-gender GrandEvølution collection is available from $200 - $220 for woman and $280 for men. About Cole Haan Cole Haan LLC, with its Global Headquarters in Greenland, New Hampshire and Creative Center in New York City, is an iconic American lifestyle accessories brand and retailer of premium men's and women's footwear, handbags, leather accessories, outerwear and eyewear. Cole Haan stands for its commitment to craftsmanship, timeless style and design innovation. For more information, visit ColeHaan.com and follow @ColeHaan. Source: PR Newswire/Cole Haan
Cole Haan, GrandMøtion collections, GrandEvølution collections, StudiøGrand collections, Sara Mearns, Megan Fairchild, Gretchen Smith, new Extraordinary Comes to Life
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Saddest Anime Deathslukestheman4
The Contenders: Page 11
I don't understand why he is here. He was annoying, and is a Levi wannabe.V 1 Comment
Even if he was just a piece of clothing, he was Ryuko Matoi's best friend. After defeating Ragyo, it felt like Ryuko and Senketsu were on the top of the world and were unstoppable. Unfortunately, Kill la Kill suffered the Gurren Lagann treatment by showing that Senketsu was falling apart due to his absorption of Ragyo's Kamui putting a strain on him. Senketsu then sacrificed himself as he was delivering Ryuko back to Earth in the hopes she does not burn up while in the atmosphere. Senketsu was so sweet and had a heart despite being neither clothing nor human. Senketsu will always be in our hearts and will never lose our way in them. After finishing Kill la Kill, you should watch the OVA.
I've seen over the 300 anime, but his death was the only one that made me cry like a bitch
A bitter sweet end for the lovable robot rebel
He was so funny and cute. I didn't cry, but it was horrible anyway. He had to commit suicide, poor boy.
The creators of this anime actually killed off one of the most beloved characters of the entire series. Her death was triggered by Makoto Naegi surviving the fourth time limit in the mutual killing game, but she never told Naegi that it was her forbidden action, just so he wouldn't get all berserk and want to kill himself. R.I.P. Kyoko Kirigiri. - SelfDestruct
Update: I spoke too soon. She was revived in Danganronpa 3: Hope Arc. - SelfDestruct
I loved this series as well as Fate/Stay Night UBW
I hated to see her die. She was one of those cool, hip, sweet yet strict mothers.
She was a kind and caring mother. She was killed by her ex-husband :'( - Tuana123
I... I... I... I was utterly heartbroken to see such a great companion to Justice "Seigi" Akatsuka die. This is one of the two deaths in anime that actually made me shed a single tear (the other one is Meruem from Hunter x Hunter). Considering how long of a great friendship Seigi had with her, her brutal death truly broke him and turned him from someone who believed truly in justice to someone who only cared about revenge for her. - SelfDestruct
She really didn't die but I was still in tears when her family couldn't remember her.
Stupid she wanted to die
She rewrote the whole universal laws while she destroyed herself from existence and became a concept. Poor Homura...She was crying as she hug the ribbons Madoka gave her after Homura, Mami, Kyoko (Sayaka died)fought a Wraith(spoilers for those who haven't saw the whole thing). - MLPFan
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text:
Talk:Rhythm and blues
|WikiProject Music/Music genres task force
|(Rated B-class)
|Rhythm and blues has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Art. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.
|WikiProject R&B and Soul Music
|(Rated B-class, Top-importance)
Rhythm and blues was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Delisted version: December 18, 2006
|Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team
|(Rated C-class)
|This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Assigned student editor(s): YourGuyJY.
This page is seriously lacking sources. Can someone please make it a broken page or whatever? There aren't any sources past the introduction, and there are no evidence at all for what is being said.
The page as a whole is just broken. It needs ALOT of work.
And BTW. This page is mainly referring to early 1940's/50's R&B, which is the basis of Rock n' Roll. It is very different than modern R&B. Though this is a problem. The main R&B page should be just a history of the term, and then branching off into different categories to define its meaning at different points in time.
I dont know how to use Wikipedia well though, I may post some stuff on here if i can figure it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC).
Do add relevant, referenced, verifiable text. Regarding sources, you are right about the lack of them. For instance, this broad category of music was not created to be a precursor of rock n roll. It stood on its own. Finding suitable material to add, or replace unreferenced text, requires a fair amount of effort, however. Rhythm and Blues was the name of this music starting in the late 1940s, and that is what we decided to address here - the period through the time "soul music" replaced it. Steve Pastor 16:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Bass base[edit]
There something that I do not understood in this whole talk about "Rhythm and Blues" & "Contemporary R&B": What about "Rhythme n' Bass"??? Isn't it the real name for "Contemporary R&B"? We got here a confusion between a classical RnB and a modern RnB, each accronym have been requalified to be missunderstood but they're not the accronym of the same thing. I have always heard about a "classical rhythm and blues" and "contemporary rhythm and bass" but never of something like a "classical rhythm and bass" (could have been a kind of disco sound) or "modern rythme and blues" (callable "contemporary classical rhythm and blues"). Or it's like the brainless who have used those years the expression "RnB" didn't knew the existing of Rhythm And Blues... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 13:33, August 21, 2007 (UTC)
- Hopefully, readers will begin to understand that there was Rhythm and Blues as a marketing term beginning in the late 1940s, and that it changed as time went on, and started being referred to as soul music. And the term resurfaced after a number of years. Should we try to make that more clear? Steve Pastor 16:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I personally have never heard "rhythm and bass" from any credible source. I'd guess that this is a sort of backronym that someone (perhaps with good intentions) came up with to try to differentiate "classic R&B" from "contemporary R&B." I have always thought of R&B from the '80s, '90s and beyond as simply a continuation of R&B/soul/funk of the '50s-'70s. While R&B since the '80s has tended to be produced using synths, drum machines, and samplers, it's still clearly descended from the classic styles that came before.
I think part of the confusion is that a) purists may feel that newer R&B is less authentic, since it rarely features live instrumentation, and/or b) there was a time in the late '60s-'70s when the term "R&B" wasn't used as much ("soul" being the preferred term at the time, perhaps in an effort to distance the music from rock & roll, which had actually developed from the same origins as R&B, but had by the '60s become a distinct genre in its own right). In the '80s and '90s, the term R&B began to be used more, and "soul music" fell into disuse. Because of this "gap" in the apparent lineage of R&B, people may perceive the "classic" and "contemporary" as two different genres. I, however, believe this to be a mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 04:19, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
needs a lot of cleanup[edit]
I don't see why Deep Purple is considered R&B and Ciara isn't.... This calls for expert opinions.. Again categorization is very subjective.... I have a big enough problem seeing Deep Purple in this article.... If I brought this up with anybody else.., they would look at me funny.... R&B simply went through so many permutations including the so-called hip-hop soul of the mid 90s.... Like Rock music- R&B simply changed with the times.... But I guess some people here believe that British blues counts as R&B....Another valid reason - when did soul begin and end and when did R&B continue - Billboard still has an R&B chart section...This is so subjective to fans of music prior to 1970 and not after and that's why i'm questioning the validity as well as flagging it...
I've actually brought this up with an African-American friend of mine who's a musician and runs a studio.... and says nobody has read the lyrics to some of the songs of Deep Purple's "Machine Head" - he started shaking his head when he heard that this group was in this article....That will tell you something..... 03:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
- Quite a while ago the people who were editing this article decided that it should address the orginal period of rhythm and blues which was approximately 1948 through the early 1960s. This was done in part to avoid the type of discussion you bring up, and to provide information on this period of popular music. I keep hoping someone else decides that this is an important enough topic to begin adding actual, verifiable information about this period, rather than engage in discussions of which later day group belongs in this category. Maybe you or your African American musician friend would like to engage?Steve Pastor (talk) 16:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Tell you what, SpyLab, I am prepared to continue working on this article, but not if all of it is going to be disputed. Or, maybe I should delete everything that isn't referenced. What do you say? Steve Pastor (talk) 22:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
On Wikipedia, tags always go at the top, unless the tags say "section."Spylab (talk) 22:56, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
10/4 Music has evovled as a whole changing every aspect and genre. Although R&B msic has changed greatly from when it first originated, most artists such as Ciara and Beyonce still incorporate R&B aspects into their music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 17:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
I think you are over-reacting by starting from scratch, but that's just me.
Here, for reference, is the removed passage:
- In its first manifestation in the late 1940s, rhythm and blues was played by small combos of four or five musicians; usually a bass, drums, one or two saxophones, and possibly a rhythm guitar or piano. Louis Jordan is generally credited with being the first jazz crossover artist to be considered "R&B". In 1951 it was also being called rock and roll. It was strongly influenced by jazz, jump blues and black gospel music. It also influenced jazz in return. Rhythm and blues, blues, and gospel combined with bebop to create hard bop.
- Several musicians recorded both jazz and R&B, such as the swing bands of Jay McShann, Tiny Bradshaw and Johnny Otis. Count Basie had a weekly live rhythm and blues broadcast from Harlem. Bebop icon Tadd Dameron arranged music for Bull Moose Jackson and spent two years as Jackson's pianist after establishing himself in bebop. Most of the R&B studio musicians were jazz musicians, and many of the musicians on Charlie Mingus' breakthrough jazz recordings were R&B veterans. Lionel Hampton's big band of the early 1940s — which produced the classic recording Flying Home (tenor sax solo by Illinois Jacquet) — was the breeding ground for many of the bebop legends of the 1950s. Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson was a bebop saxophonist and a blues shouter.
- In the 1950s, overlapping with other genres such as jazz and rock and roll, R&B developed regional variations. A strong, distinct style straddling the border with blues came out of New Orleans, and was based on a rolling piano style first made famous by Professor Longhair. In the late 1950s, Fats Domino hit the national charts with the songs "Blueberry Hill" and "Ain't That a Shame". Other artists who popularized this Louisiana flavor of R&B included Clarence "Frogman" Henry, Frankie Ford, Irma Thomas, The Neville Brothers and Dr. John. The first rock and roll hits consisted of R&B songs such as "Rocket 88" and "Shake, Rattle and Roll", which appeared on popular music charts as well as R&B charts. The song "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin On", the first hit by Jerry Lee Lewis, was an R&B cover song that reached number one on the pop, R&B and country and western charts.
- By the early 1960s, rhythm and blues had taken on more gospel-influenced elements, as pioneered by artists such as Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, James Brown and Aretha Franklin. This newer style was given the name soul music. A little more than a decade later, however, rhythm and blues made a comeback."[1] The early and mid 1960s saw the rise of young white bands whose music was labelled R&B or blue-eyed soul; such as The Yardbirds, The Rolling Stones, The Pretty Things, The Small Faces, The Animals, Dr. Feelgood, Deep Purple, The Spencer Davis Group and The Who. Those bands all played covers of songs by established black performers, in addition to their own material. The Who were once considered Maximum R&B by their mod fans. Around the same time in Jamaica, a local variation of R&B was emerging, called ska. Like soul music, it was also popular with mods and their offshoots: the skinheads, suedeheads, casuals and scooterboys.
- ^ duplicate ref
I would, myself, remove Deep Purple & Dr Feelgood & Small Faces from the above list, but include "UK-based" and "Them" and "The Beatles, in their early days".
Wwwhatsup (talk) 00:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- I spent a fair number of hours running down the references that you see in the introduction of the article, dealing with the stuff that was there before, trying to make it fit, etc. I don't want that tarnished by tags that have nothing to do with that material. Spylab insisted, on my talk page, that tags always go at the top, and would not accept the compromise that I offered, which was to have the tags below the referenced section. All unreferenced material is subject to removal, as a stated policy of wikipedia, as you probably know. I have been watching this article for a long time, and I agree it needs a lot of work. And it would be really nice to do it right.
- I would appreciate help putting this article make together. But I would like someone else to put as much time as me into authoritative, verifiable sources. Steve Pastor (talk) 00:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- Some more sources can be found on Google books] Wwwhatsup (talk) 19:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
The article mentions the Billboard R&B chart in 1947, and then, in the next paragraph, mentions that that name was only used as a category starting from 1949. Should be reworded? Wwwhatsup (talk) 19:20, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
- Interesting delema...Billboard has all these years listed under one heading...Rhythm and blues and Hip Hop, or something like that. And the listings are continuous even through the Soul Music years. The pre R&B term for music made for and purchased by African Ameicans was "Race Records". But I'm not sure they called it the "Race charts". So, I don't know, maybe something about the record buying public made it a hit ??? Steve Pastor (talk) 20:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Still on the topic of charts, it seems that the article is starting to focus a bit too much on the placement of songs in the charts, instead of on what R&B actually is, and how it developed and evolved. Spylab (talk) 15:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- OK, well, I had a section on the instrumentation in Jordan's Tymphany Five, and it was removed. And of course if you want to talk about "style" or "sound", you have to talk about what instruments were used. I am seeing a pattern of evolving from jazz based blues with big band like playing and blues shouters, to the softer sound of vocal and doo wop groups. The other thing that will happen is the rise of "rock", then the "soul" sound. Do you think it would be better to try to work it into each section, or break it out into separate sections like instrumentation or over all style? The charts, of course, tell us what was most popular as each year goes by, and tastes change. I am thinking about a section on record labels, too, since most of them are now mostly forgotten. If anyone else has anything to contribute...Steve Pastor (talk) 20:14, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Team Work[edit]
I am thrilled with how well this is shaping up. I have been researching this subject, and related items for at least a year. I was reluctant to mess with what was here before, but now... I hope those of you who are helping with the more sophisticated formating are satisfied with how things have been going. Thanks a bunch. Sometime soon, the article will need sections. Right now I'm thinking in terms of Setting the Stage, which would be WWII / early 40s, then start of the R&B period, early to mid fifties, mid to late 50s, etc. Alternatives? Comments? Steve Pastor (talk) 19:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it's looking good, with the new information and references to back it up.Spylab (talk) 23:41, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Rhythm and blues VS Rhythm 'n Blues[edit]
Why is this article named "Rhythm and blues" and not "Rhythm 'n Blues"? I believe "Rock 'n Roll" and "Rhythm 'n Blues" are original and faithful historic terms. Netrat_msk (talk) 02:14, 22 March 2008 (UTC) Netrat_msk (talk) 02:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- There are several to many "faithful historic" spellings that have been used for both of these broad categories of music, and it's impossible to decide when "original" occurred . Since there is no one, correct spelling, editors have decided to use the current "correct English" spelling. A listing of all of the various permutations is much less useful than information about the music, who made it, and what it sounded like. Steve Pastor (talk) 21:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
It's not "Rock 'n Roll" and "Rhythm 'n Blues," it's "Rock 'n' Roll" and "Rhythm 'n' Blues" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 00:17, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
Racism and Music[edit]
SpyLab just deleted this paragraph: In April of 1956 three white men rushed the stage as Nat "King" Cole was performing in Birmingham, AL. One man reached Cole and hit him with a flying tackle, and then attempted to drag him off stage. Police officers swarmed over the three men, beating them with fists and nightsticks, and took them away in handcuffs. A shaken Cole, recovering in his dressing room, received an apology from the mayor of Birminghan and other officals, and was encouraged to continue his performance. Cole received a five minute long standing ovation when he returned to the stage. Although he did not resume the show, he did perform a second show for an all black audience.[1] The attack was condemned from one end of the country to the other, and even the most ardent and diehard segregationists found the incident more than a little hard to swallow.[1]
- In MAY be off topic, but I put it in the article because Carl Perkins was very worried, as was his brother, when they showed up to play what appeared to be an all black venue. And he was touring with a bunch of black performers. Perkins was worried that he would become the next Nat King Cole, or be shot by someone in the audience. He had been confronted in the past for making "black" music. I know that I have often rolled my eyes when someone brought race into a discussion of music, but these issues were clearly important to the people who made and performed the music. I think it would be a mistake to ignore it completely. Go Cat Go is due at the library soon, and I don;t want to waste time wrting text that will be deleted. Comments, please? Steve Pastor (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- What does the paragraph specifically have to do with Rhythm and Blues? Make that clear and maybe there's a place for that information in the article (but not with every minor detail). The way it's presented now, it just looks like something that belongs in the Nat King Cole article, not a broad article about one music genre.Spylab (talk) 16:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Technical problem with citations section[edit]
There's a broken section at the bottom of the page: citations are scrambled... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 08:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Soul music[edit]
Soul music was invented as a crossover of R&B and gospel, so I suggest moving Soul music from sub-genres to fusion genres. Netrat_msk (talk) 17:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
dire dire dire article - who will catch that teardrop? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC) In my opinion, one thing is missing in this article. That is Little Richard.. You can't write an article on Rhythm and Blues history and then leave him out. His influence is profound, not only on contemporary music, but also on later musicians and all the way forward till today.
SpyLab, What is it that is in the article that leads you to write that rhythm and blues was influenced by jazz, etc, rather than being those things. Obviously, there is a common usage, but where in the article is that stated and supported by a referenced source? In fact, all of the referenced statements in the Etylmology section indicate that they were all included under the term invented form marketing purposes. Your stated reason for the revert was not very helpful. Steve Pastor (talk) 23:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The lead should define what rhythm and blues actually is, not just what the word originally meant as a marketing term. At some point the term rhythm and blues started being used to describe a distinct style of music, and stopped being used as an umbrella term for all African American popular music, such as jazz and gospel.Spylab (talk) 03:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. But, how do we capture that, and what do we use as a reference, while a the same time making it clear that the common use meaning changed? One possibility would be from a British dance book I have that equates rock n roll with rhythm and blues. And, that could actually sort of fit with that name being adopted by British rockers while the American market turned to soul music. Could we use the film "The Commitments" as a referenece? Steve Pastor (talk) 16:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have a proposal, to replace the existing introduction with the following:-
- Rhythm and blues (also known as R&B, R'n'B or RnB) is the name given to a wide-ranging genre of popular music, originally created by African Americans in the 1940s but which has subsequently had a number of shifts of meaning. The term was originally used by record companies to refer to recordings bought predominantly by African Americans, at a time when blues recordings were increasingly using rhythms derived from jazz, amplified instrumention (especially electric guitar), and sophisticated vocal stylings and harmonies. After this style of music contributed substantially to the development of rock and roll, the term "R&B" was then used from the 1960s particularly by white groups to refer to musical styles which developed from and incorporated electric blues, as well as gospel and soul music. By the 1970s, the term "rhythm and blues" was being used as a blanket term to describe soul and funk. Since the 1990s, the term "R&B" is now mainly used to refer to a modern version of soul and funk-influenced pop music.
- A reference for the first 3 sentences would be Peter Gammond, The Oxford Companion to Popular Music, Oxford University Press, 1991, ISBN 0-19-311323-6, p.488. Rather than making this change myself, it would be good to get a degree of consensus first. What do people think? Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have a proposal, to replace the existing introduction with the following:-
That's all good information to include, but as a lead paragraph it seems too long and complex.Spylab (talk) 23:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Good - The term was originally used by record companies to refer to recordings of blacks bought predominantly by blacks (African Americans OK, too) in the late 1940s but which has subsequently had a number of shifts of meaning. By the 1970s, the term "rhythm and blues" was being used as a blanket term to describe soul and funk. Since the 1990s, the term "R&B" is now mainly used to refer to a modern version of soul and funk-influenced pop music.Steve Pastor (talk) 00:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Good - the term "R&B" was then used from the 1960s particularly by white groups to refer to musical styles which developed from and incorporated electric blues, as well as gospel and soul music. By the 1970s, the term "rhythm and blues" was being used as a blanket term to describe soul and funk. Since the 1990s, the term "R&B" is now mainly used to refer to a modern version of soul and funk-influenced pop music. comment This is all good, but maybe it should be at the end of the article where we move into soul, etc.Steve Pastor (talk) 00:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Bad? Or, I don't entirely agree with these: at a time when blues recordings were increasingly using rhythms derived from jazz, amplified instrumention (especially electric guitar) Really, it's more like the jazz players were playing blues, as they always had, and got big "playing for the people". Most "rural blues" players adopted a harder sound, and it was jump that "became rock n roll". Check out the recent additions and edits I made to the jump blues article. comment Note that although electric guitars were used, and there were prominent guitar players, the tenor sax was the predominant instrument. Electric guitar was far more prominent in country/rockabilly in this era. After this style of music contributed substantially to the development of rock and roll, comment Nothing changed substantially in the music. People just called it something different. See all the rock n roll movies from the 50s. Sure, Chuck Berry is an exception. All of this is too complex to be in an intro, but would be good to explore in the body of the article. But then would it be too much about styles of blues? Guess so.Steve Pastor (talk) 00:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I suggest we leave out the "controversial" stuff - ie the stuff I have labeled as "Bad?", and go with the then shortened version.
- Thanks for putting this up! Steve Pastor (talk) 00:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comments. Re length and complexity of intro - it's a complex topic, and I think it's important that the intro provides an overview of the whole of the subject matter covered. It can highlight the original 1940s meaning, but in my view also needs to summarise, succinctly, the later meanings. If paragraph length is a problem (personally I don't think it is) it can be split into two paras. On the detailed points, I'm happy not to mention guitar (or sax). The line about blues players playing jazz rhythms came specifically from the Gammond reference - if we can get a more appropriate (and referenced) phrase from the body of the article text it would be much better. Re the move into R&R - I thought "contributed substantially" was about as neutral as I could get, given there will be an argument that R&R also drew on Hank Williams, Bob Wills, etc etc, and it would be better to give a (relatively) uncontentious overview in the intro and explore the details in the article itself. Happy to hear other views - I think it's important to get a neutral and stable introduction to the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I've been looking into whre Lindy Hop came from, and there's another case where people were doing something, and it was given a name "Lindy", but the name was the only thing that was new. It ocntinued to change, however, just like R&B/jump blues did. I think it's important that people understand that names for things, in this case a "genre" of music, are just words that the industry makes up, "rhythm and blues", or Alan Freed's use of "rock n roll". (Course, doo wop is considered to be "rock n roll" within the context of the 50s.)Steve Pastor (talk) 16:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
- So, I just just prefer words that don't confuse people into thinking, oh, it was something new, right? Then we have endless arguments about what was the first ???? Also, Electric blues - Bad. Note the weak nature of the article that was created for it.Steve Pastor (talk) 16:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Leaving out the parts I suggested would address SpyLab's concern about the intro being too long. Considering the length of the article at this point, the intro should be fairly brief. If someone wants to address these, and other issues, within the article itself, go for it. Most of it currently sticks to the facs and avoids the hysterical "SO and SO was the GREATEST R&B artist type stuff. But, it could be filled out considerably. It DOES nead a longer intro, which is why I tried one. Steve Pastor (talk) 16:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
- I've made some changes to the intro which hopefully take on board most of these points. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
sign up[edit]
how do you sign up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 20:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Info Box[edit]
These things are problematic. Editors come along and put stuff in them with no justification, and they are often things that can't be found in the article itself. I support removal of ANY item in the INFO BOX that: isn't in the article, and/or doesn't have a reference. Is anyone aware of, and can share, guidelines for the Info Box? Steve Pastor (talk) 19:41, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Requested move[edit]
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was not moved. Snow is a-falling. Article titles are not capitalized in Wikipedia unless the title is almost always capitalized in English. Jafeluv (talk) 12:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Rhythm and blues → Rhythm and Blues — To me, it 'looks wrong'. Google and Google image search both seem to have a lot more cases of the two-caps version; I'd like to know what everyone else thinks. Cheers, Chzz ► 04:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Chzz ► 04:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- This is covered explicitly at WP:TITLE#Lowercase: "Convention: Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is almost always capitalized in English (for example, as in proper names and book titles). Thus, capitalize the second word in John Wayne and Art Nouveau, but not in Video game." etc...
— V = I * R (talk) 05:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose until Wikipedia's bizarre capitalization rules are overthrown altogether. Having one title "look right" on a site where the policy is for titles to "look wrong" would be too unsettling. Boogie woogie. Rock and roll. Blue-eyed soul. Hip hop. And so on. Sssoul (talk) 05:22, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Why not start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (capitalization)? If you think that a change should be made (even if that change is limited to being an exception for specific articles), then the place to generate consensus for that view is on the policy/guidelintalk page.
— V = I * R (talk) 05:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Why not start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (capitalization)? If you think that a change should be made (even if that change is limited to being an exception for specific articles), then the place to generate consensus for that view is on the policy/guidelintalk page.
- ... if you're addressing me: what i wrote was meant as a sort of humourous way of pointing out that Wikipedia's capitalization conventions often "look wrong", but they are Wikipedia's capitalization conventions anyway. of course anyone is free to start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (capitalization) if they want to. Sssoul (talk) 05:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose, in accordance with WP:MOSCAPS, as it is not a proper noun. --DAJF (talk) 06:00, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose. "Rhythm and blues" may look wrong but Wikipedia's in-house style manual on the subject, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters), calls for such Romance/Slavic-style capitalisation rules. As User:Ohms law suggests, bring it up at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (capitalization). — AjaxSmack 06:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose per guidance. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose per style guide section mentioned above. --Cybercobra (talk) 03:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose per style guide section mentioned above. Wwwhatsup (talk) 03:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Clear up the genre table[edit]
Someone who has a good knowledge on the topic, clear up the genre table at the beginning of the article, especially section about "derivative forms", "subgenres" etc. It's obviously a nonsense to claim, for instance, "hip hop" is a derivative of rhythm and blues. -- 184.108.40.206 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:36, 14 October 2009 (UTC).
- In "New Blue Music", rock and roll is defined as a derivative of R&B, though "Icons of R&B and Soul" specifically underlines rock and roll wasn't a distinct musical form from R&B. Those two seem to be polar opposite opinions -- Appletangerine un (talk) 13:23, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
British rhythm and blues[edit]
A bit surprised that this was deleted on the ground that this is only an American genre. It is well established in the scholarly literature that R&B was a major genre in Britain in the 1960s, although it could be better expressed and sourced than it is at present and I was toying with the idea of cleaning up this element of the article.--SabreBD (talk) 16:44, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
- I've made the same point at User talk:Steve Pastor. :-) Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
- OK. As I wrote in one of my comments, how about we have a new section Rhythm and Blues Overseas, or some such? I think it's important that what I would call the "derivative forms" be set off from the originators of the sound(s). If neither of you gets to it, I may start on it myself since I started this! If either of you objects to that approach, please get it in print here. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:29, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks. I have no obection to such a section and I think it would make more sense as at the moment it rather oddly crawls into the 60s and dies, then starts talking about Britain, which is potentially confusing. Not sure about the title, but I will try to give that some thought if I can come up with an alternative I will let you know. Do you want me to rewrite the British section, I'm happy to do so, or do one of you wish to do it?--SabreBD (talk) 17:48, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
- My main area of interest is with the "seminal", original stuff. That goes hand in hand with the end of the swing era and "rock n roll" from the 50s. Maybe one day my interest will move into the 60s, soul music, overseas, and how it moved back to the U.S. as the blues revival, etc. Given my current lack of interest in the overseas developments, (although those were the guys I "grew up with") I'd say go ahead and work on it. I was just going to restore the deleted material. I DO want the article to stay focused and not drift into comtemporary R&B. Anything that improves the article... Thanks. Steve Pastor (talk) 19:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
- I totally agree with avoiding contemporary R&B here. I will start working something up on this that will make a reasonably sized sub-section. It might take a little while.--SabreBD (talk) 07:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
- Fine. I'll just make the point that "R&B overseas", to me, has slightly different connotations to the specific use of the term "R&B" in Britain in the 1960s, to describe a style of music played largely by white English men which was a crucial step in the development (internationally) of rock music. That is, the term "R&B overseas" can be used to describe acts like, say, Geno Washington (which I've just noticed is a pretty poor article - doesn't cover his 60s stuff at all!), who were regarded as "genuine" R&B performers (US-born, black) who performed overseas. However, quite dissimilar bands like The Yardbirds and The Who also played what was called R&B music in Britain at that time - it had developed from the music they listened to (Muddy Waters, Ray Charles, The Miracles etc.) but was actually quite a significant shift - they started writing their own material, and this then contributed substantially to the development of "white" rock music in the 60s and onwards. But, for a while, they called it "R&B". Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
- I totally agree with avoiding contemporary R&B here. I will start working something up on this that will make a reasonably sized sub-section. It might take a little while.--SabreBD (talk) 07:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
This now done. There turned out to be quite a lot so I created a longer article and have placed a summary here. I have created a section on influence for the time being. I will look at this again and see what else can be said there in a short time, but see next section below.--SabreBD (talk) 20:03, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
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Clean up[edit]
I have put this on my list for a clean up. Basically an attempt to source anything without a proper reference. Anything that cannot be sourced will be removed (not expecting a lot of this). I will also bear in mind legitimate points made above and if there is anything outstanding that needs attention now is a good time to post about it so it can be incorporated. It may be a while as I have a backlog.--SabreBD (talk) 20:03, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Influence on garage rock[edit]
In my view there is a strong case for mentioning - briefly - the influence that (black) R&B bands had on (white) garage bands in the early 1960s. Think of Richard Berry's "Louie Louie", the Isley Brothers' "Shout" and "Nobody But Me", etc. Anyone got good refs to support this line of approach? Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Elements of pop music[edit]
I reckon r&b uses and influences the use of pop music too because it sounds like pop music Beggsie221 (talk) 05:24, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
'Afro-Cuban influence' section[edit]
The whole section looks more like a long essay with a specific thesis ("Cuban roots of R&B are stronger than you believe"), and its "evidences" (sheet music, YT videos, etc., singling out specific examples of Cuban-influenced pieces), rather than a subsection of "History of R&B". -- 188.8.131.52 (talk) 22:38, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
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British R&B (revisited)[edit]
I believe the text in the British R&B section needs to be cleaned up to avoid WP:UNDUE. At the moment, it is too wordy with only one source. Every time I attempt to clean it up it is reversed to status quo--DanJazzy (talk) 23:50, 3 November 2016 (UTC).
- Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. — Andy W. (talk) 00:00, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- I have twice attempted to clean up the text and it has twice been reverted. That is why i brought up the discussion in the talk page.DanJazzy (talk)
- Toggling template again. The template is meant for technical requests in which new and unregistered editors are unable to edit. Please do not use the template when you are able to edit. As for your situation, continue a civil discussion here on this talk. The template is not relevant for your situation here. — Andy W. (talk) 00:05, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- I have twice attempted to clean up the text and it has twice been reverted. That is why i brought up the discussion in the talk page.DanJazzy (talk)
The section in question clearly has an issue with WP:UNDUE. I'm appealing to the editors who reversed my edits on the text to discuss here why they did so. Ghmyrtle talk please respond.DanJazzy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:33, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- I don't agree that the section is "too wordy", or that it "clearly has an issue with WP:UNDUE". You are proposing taking out three sections: one referring generally to the UK R&B genre's influences and subsequent influence on rock music (globally); one relating to details of the Stones' repertoire; and one relating to UK R&B's relationship to mod culture in the 1960s. The first and third of those are clearly, in my view, very important in terms of the development of rock music and should remain. Personally, I'm less committed to keeping the sentence or two about the Stones, but it's pertinent and referenced and I don't see any strong reason to remove it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:43, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
I'm movingI've moved this to a new section below, to distinguish this current discussion from the one six years ago. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:45, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
With all due respect Ghmyrtle (talk) the section on British R&B for the most part has only one source as reference. In addition, the section has more words than R&B from the 1950s to Contemporary combined. It insinuates that British R&B is the most influential and substantive sub-genre. Surely this is not the case. This is the textbook definition of WP:UNDUE.The section also has a link which anyone can click for more info if so desired. Finally, the influence on Rock should be emphasised in the Rock Music section, not on this one. I would very much like to hear what other editors think.--DanJazzy (talk) 03:58, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
- So would I. It goes without saying that I would be delighted if the other sections of the article were to be expanded, based on reliable sources. That is the way forward, not removing pertinent and referenced information. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:31, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
The lead should mention that "doo-wop" is a retroactive label for certain R&B.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 21:30, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
- There is currently one sentence mentioning one group and one song. I'd like to see additional information in the body of the article before adding something to the lead.Steve Pastor (talk) 21:40, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
- I agree. Another issue is the completely disproportionate size of the section on "Afro-Cuban rhythmic influence". Yes, it's important, but it distorts the shape of the article as a whole. Frankly, the article needs a thorough overhaul, based on the best sources available. But... it's a big subject to tackle!! Ghmyrtle (talk)
- Agree. Several years ago, there was a well-intentioned editor who was knowledgeable about Afro-Cuban music, and his influence on the articles he edited remains strong. What is needed is an editor (or a small group of editors) with time and access to good sources to balance the article. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:28, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
- I agree. Another issue is the completely disproportionate size of the section on "Afro-Cuban rhythmic influence". Yes, it's important, but it distorts the shape of the article as a whole. Frankly, the article needs a thorough overhaul, based on the best sources available. But... it's a big subject to tackle!! Ghmyrtle (talk)
- B-Class music genre articles
- WikiProject Music genres articles
- Wikipedia level-4 vital articles in Art
- Wikipedia B-Class vital articles in Art
- Wikipedia B-Class level-4 vital articles
- B-Class R&B and Soul Music articles
- Top-importance R&B and Soul Music articles
- WikiProject R&B and Soul Music articles
- Delisted good articles
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- Unknown-importance Version 1.0 articles
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