text:
Thursday, February 16, 2012
Why Are So Many Literary Writers Technophobic?
It seems like hardly a week goes by without one literary writer or another hyperbolically decrying the way we're all going to hell in an electronic handbasket.
First Jonathan Franzen argued that e-books are damaging society and suggested that all "serious" readers read print.
Last week Pulitzer Prize winner Jennifer Egan complained of social networking, "Who cares that we can connect? What's the big deal? I think Facebook is colossally dull. I think it's like everyone coming to live in a huge Soviet apartment block, [in] which everyone's cell looks exactly the same."
Zadie Smith has written of Facebook: "When a human being becomes a set of data on a website like Facebook, he or she is reduced. Everything shrinks. Individual character. Friendships. Language. Sensibility. In a way it's a transcendent experience: we lose our bodies, our messy feelings, our desires, our fears. It reminds me that those of us who turn in disgust from what we consider an overinflated liberal-bourgeois sense of self should be careful what we wish for: our denuded networked selves don't look more free, they just look more owned."
This of course comes on the heels of Ray Bradbury complaining in 2009: "They wanted to put a book of mine on Yahoo! You know what I told them? 'To hell with you. To hell with you and to hell with the Internet.' It's distracting. It's meaningless; it's not real. It's in the air somewhere."
And of course there's a long and storied history of writers eschewing technology and returning to nature, such as Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson.
I don't have any stats to prove this definitively, and to be fair, there are some modern literary writers who definitely embrace tech. Colson Whitehead is tremendous on Twitter and wrote reminded everyone that the Internet isn't the reason you haven't finished your novel. Susan Orlean, William Gibson, Margaret Atwood and others have embraced Twitter.
But doesn't it seem like there's some nexus between literary writers and technophobia? Are literary writers more likely to fear our coming robot overlords and proudly choose an old cell phone accordingly (if they have one at all)? Do they know something we don't?
Even when a writer really does use tech as either an artistic mode of expression or as a relentless self-promotion engine (or both), like Tao Lin, he's derided (or praised, depending on one's POV) as "a world-class perpetrator of gimmickry."
Have lit writers become our resident curmudgeons? Or are they just like any other cross-section of the population? Is it tied to deeper fear of the transition in the book business? Is it just not interesting to think new stuff is cool?
What do you make of this?
76 comments:
- JCH said...
If your books aren't hand copied in Latin by an order or Benedictine Monks, you're just phoning it in.
- February 16, 2012 at 10:36 AM
- Selena Robins said...
Great blog, Nathan. To answer your question, I think they are a tad cranky and will probably come around to the tech side of things. After all, I'm sure they all have cell phones, remote controls instead of antennas on their TV and probably even listen to I-tunes. LOL
- February 16, 2012 at 10:38 AM
- clindsay said...
Wow, those are some cranky pants writers!
- February 16, 2012 at 10:39 AM
- Carmen Ferreiro-Esteban said...
I guess Gutenberg's press was high technology in his day.
And the internet is here to stay. How we use it is up to us.
- February 16, 2012 at 10:45 AM
- F.T. Bradley: said...
Maybe it's just that writers are introverts by nature.
Maybe it's the loss of thoughtfulness that comes with technology?
Maybe it's because these authors don't have to join social networking--us newbies are required these days :-)
I embrace technology, but sigh when something new comes along (like Pininterest--come on, I just figured out how to work Facebook).
- February 16, 2012 at 10:47 AM
- C-S Cheely said...
Ray Bradbury has since changed his mind. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/nov/30/fahrenheit-451-ebook-ray-bradbury
People are always suspicious of the new thing. Just give them some time.
- February 16, 2012 at 10:50 AM
- E.J. Wesley said...
They'd better all change their minds or accept being very poor in ten years.
- February 16, 2012 at 10:56 AM
- Rin said...
I think age might have something to do with it. A lot of the younger writers have embraced the technology, while some of the older ones used to doing things in a certain way or manner of writing for years are more averse to change - until someone gets around to explaining the benefits to them.
- February 16, 2012 at 10:56 AM
- Susan Dawson-Cook said...
For me, in person socializing is much better than "chatting" on Facebook and so is holding a bound book in my hand better than reading an e-book. Being on the computer feels more like work - interacting with a person or a book is relaxing at least for me.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:00 AM
- Rick Daley said...
They are just bitter because they chipped their favorite quills on their monitors.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:01 AM
- Heather said...
I still hold that college professors are the ones who are pushing back at technology. Refusing to use anything besides powerpoint, not sending out emails, etc.
But on the writer front, I'd say we're in transition. it's not that literary writers are completely averse to the idea of an online book world, but rather they are trying to get used to the idea. I mean, even the publishing world is still trying to adapt to the e-book. It'll just take some time for things to settle down again.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:05 AM
- Matthew MacNish said...
I don't completely disagree with the notion that there is some evil in technology. Or at least that technology makes it easier for people to do evil things.
On the other hand, I completely disagree about Facebook. I mean sure, the company and some of its policies aren't perfect, but it allows me to stay in touch with friends who live across the country with more ease than any other tool in history.
What do you think of Google's new Word Verification, Nathan? Have you had to use it yet?
- February 16, 2012 at 11:07 AM
- Mieke Zamora-Mackay said...
I think some of these writers believe that the users of internet technology are not in their target market.
I am sure they're still getting used to the whole thing.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:09 AM
- Michael Johnston said...
As a grad student in literature who is also an aspiring science fiction/fantasy author, as well as a high school English teacher and a technophile, I have often thought that the majority of "literary" writers have tremendous sticks up their rear ends. I rarely read the sort of self-important pedantry from "genre" writers that I do from the so-called "important literary figures," with the obvious exceptions Bradbury and Harlan Ellison, who still eschews the Internet and types his stories, last I heard, on a manual typewriter.
I think it comes from their need to think their work is something more than storytelling. If they don't convince themselves that they're doing something important, they might realize they're no better than TV writers, and then what would they do with their smug sense of superiority?
This also ties into our society's need to seperate stories between "Important Work" and "Entertainment," as if the two can't be the same. People who buy into this forget that Shakespeare was the pop culture of his time, and would doubtless be writing (brilliant) television today.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:13 AM
- Sean Roney said...
They're just chicken because they can see the end coming. Rather than dodge the knife coming for their neck like everyone else, they choose to stand firm and say "To hell with dodging. That's not real. Dodging isn't standing." Good riddance to all those dinosaurs.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:25 AM
I love Franzen, but he writes a book a decade and laughs all the way to the bank. Who on earth has that kind of a sweet deal? If I were him, or John Iriving, or any other authors who've found a great thing and have milked it for years, I'd be against technology, too.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:26 AM
- Tim Sunderland said...
When telephones first came out, there was a time that the boss did not dare use one. That was the work of his secretary. Twenty-five years ago I worked at a company where the CEO didn't have a computer, but everyone else did. Not his job.
With the evolution of each technology, the same comments were made. But there is an entire population out there that has never grown up without a cell phone or the internet. All of the books on my e-reader have saved at least one tree. I'd say that some say we're all going to have to wake up and small the Kindle, but by that time we'll probably start having books transmitted to the thought centers of our brain.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:28 AM
- Elizabeth said...
This post made me think. Thank you.
I'm not sure the writers you've quoted here are all technophobes. They are specific in their comments and it is difficult to dismiss them out of hand even when one does embrace social networking as a medium for writers.
Facebook can be dull. And I found myself thinking about "looking owned" as Smith puts it. As for Franzen's comment about e-books, it is a larger question that he raises: taking the time to let work inhabit us as we read it. E-books don't necessarily preclude that but the idea that you have a battery life on the device you are using does, in fact, change the reading experience.
I see the same thing that these writers and that many commenters seem to acknowledge: when we embrace what is next, we have to consider if, when, and how to let go of what is. It may take a little time (as it did for Bradbury) or we may find ourselves looking at new kinds of writing that use the social media even as they use us. I think "420 Characters" by Lou Beach is a fine example of this, as is Margaret Atwood's use of Twitter.
I suspect that the real difference between "serious" writers who reject electronic media or appear to do so, is simply that they are more private people to begin with. And they have limited time. It helps all writers to consider how best to use that time and how best to connect.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:50 AM
- Kathryn said...
Bradbury sounds like a delightful grumpy old man in the quote you provided. "[The internet]'s not real. It's in the air somewhere." That's just brilliant.
I don't know... I feel like things are always going to change. It seems a bit pretentious to state that serious readers read print. I prefer print books to ebooks right now, but I know I'm still reading the same story as someone with a Kindle. I think.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:50 AM
- Bryan Russell said...
The internet is the home of mass consumption and mass culture - the common denominator (sometimes the lowest common denominator) is what makes it big on the internet.
And that is not (typically) literary fiction. It's more of a niche market, these days, and is somewhat reliant on traditional forums that support it as important culture.
I think literary writers are probably a little fearful of the literary free-for-all of the internet, of being a small fish in a really big media pond. There's no Amanda Hocking self-pub success stories among literary writers, at least that I've heard of (though I'm sure there's a few doing well in this new market).
I think the old system supported literary fiction, both in terms of exposure and financial support. It was assured a place at the table. The new system? Nothing is guaranteed. And that's probably pretty scare at a time when mass culture seems to be moving ever further away from literary fiction (at least in North America).
- February 16, 2012 at 11:51 AM
- Anjali Mitter Duva said...
Spot on. I don't presume ever to rank among the likes of the literary authors you quote here, but my manuscript is getting a healthy bunch of rejections from editors for being "too literary." As a result, I'm starting to consider the ebook route, although making sure to get proper editing along the way. But then folks make me doubt my idea, like the well-established and straight-talking agent I ran into the other day who, having read a couple of chapters from said manuscript, said: "Don't do an ebook. Only as a last resort. Your book is too good." That's flattering and all, but I wonder, how long are "literary" and "e", or technology, going to continue to look at each other askance from across some divide?
- February 16, 2012 at 11:59 AM
- Cheryl said...
In 50 years it won't be an argument at all, the ones arguing will mostly be dead or too old to argue or care. Times change whether we want it to or not. Arguing about the lack of merit in it isn't going to make it go away. Embrace it or don't, but it's going to thrive and grow and someday we'll have computers in contact lenses and data pumped directly into our brains. And in 50 years, they'll be talking about how it was so much better when we were on Facebook.
- February 16, 2012 at 12:13 PM
- Sean Roney said...
Elizabeth, you bring up the point of battery life. Have you ever used an e-reader? Even with active reading and a lot of syncing, you will find it takes at least two weeks to drain their batteries. Normally the battery lifespan can be a month or more.
Heck, you'll usually change the batteries in your reading light far more often than that!
The batteries on e-readers don't in themselves mess with the reading experience.
- February 16, 2012 at 12:14 PM
- Jaimie said...
What do I make of this? Facebook sucks. Smart people, some of whom are writers, recognize that. Twitter is much better, and smart people, some of whom are writers, recognize that. And as an unrelated note, some writers are iffy about ebooks.
I don't think I would lump all of this under "technophobic."
But seriously, Facebook is terrible. A terrible software, a terrible system.
- February 16, 2012 at 12:18 PM
- Jory said...
I think there needs to be a balance. Sure, I love the convenience of e-books, but I still relish the smell and feel of a book in my hands.
And though some part of me agrees with with the comments made about social networking, I also have to note that if it weren't for Facebook and Twitter and the fact that everyone and their grandmother (literally) has quick access to publicly speak their mind, it has forced those of us who fancy ourselves clever to be that much cleverer.
As far as Colson Whitehead's comment about the internet keeping us from finishing our novels... I'm sorry, but I can find any numerous ways to distract myself from getting any writing done. But the internet did give me http://writeordie.com/ so I consider that a win.
- February 16, 2012 at 1:01 PM
- Munk said...
Tao Lin is lin-tastic.
Go Knicks.
- February 16, 2012 at 1:02 PM
- Shannon Dittemore said...
Of course lumping them all together is dangerous and unfair, but I'm going to go with fear. And I can only say that because as a new author with my very first book hitting shelves in May, I am slightly terrified of the e-book business myself. Not that I haven't embraced it. I love my Kindle, but I do wonder just where we authors will be when the cookie does crumble.
- February 16, 2012 at 1:11 PM
- The Sasquatch said...
I think, for a lot of people, there comes a point in life where "New" becomes synonymous with "Bad." You get comfortable enough in life and suddenly those things that come along and change it are no longer opportunities but threats. The status quo is more important when you have somethign to lose. This is why older generations look back on the younger generations and say "Those Damn Kids!" even though their parent's generations said the same thing of them.
I don't think it has as much to do with the culture of literary writers, especially since most of the writers you included are exactly young. Franzen and Egan are in their 50s. Zadie Smith is almost 40 (old enough to remember life before the Internet). David Foster Wallace would turn 50 in a few days if he were still around (how's that make you feel?).
I think it has more to do with finding comfort, which often leads to complacency which, in turn, can lead to a protectionist mindset.
How many up-and-coming literary writers are anti-tech? Phillip Roth will continue to get his checks with or without Twitter. The unknowns...they're more likely to see the benefits.
Technology, the Internet, Social Media and other New Fangled Things(tm) are just tools. They aren't good. They aren't bad. They just are. It's how we use these tools that give birth to good and bad outcomes. Like anything else in life, its where we choose to put our efforts and our time that make the difference.
I'd love to hear the literary crowd talk about THAT.
- February 16, 2012 at 1:33 PM
- Mira said...
Great post, Nathan! Appreciated that you talked about this. And loved that you pointed out that "new stuff is cool".
Because it is!! :)
I think Bryan Russell nailed it. It's anxiety.
The changes in the book world are probably scary for some Lit writers.
I think they may fear that the democratization of books will push literary fiction into a very small corner or make it disappear altogether.
I would argue that literary fiction is already in a very small corner.
E-books will expand the book world tremendously, but there will still be a place for literary fiction, with it's artistry and innovation. Those who love it and award prizes, like the Nobel prize, as a small example, will keep it alive and thriving.
Literary fiction writers may also reach new audiences with the e-book, and they might make more money, too, so, they may find that they like the new book world once they get used to it.
- February 16, 2012 at 2:44 PM
- Steven J. Wangsness said...
I agree with F.T. Bradley. Writers are introverts, most of us, and certainly the older ones among us have a fondness for the touch and feel and smell of paper, a love of bookbinding and design, a sense of connection to history through the books we handle. So even if we are willing, out of need or desire, to publish our book in ebook form (guilty), we still feel guilty about it, as if we have cheated on our old friend, the book made of paper.
At least I do.
- February 16, 2012 at 2:54 PM
- Wendy said...
I haven't read the articles you link to yet, but in response to this post I would point out that people who see themselves as intellectuals are often critical of what they see as popular--especially when, as in this case, the field from which they draw their identity is heading down a wildly popular but unpredictable path. All cultural shifts meet with derision, and even those of us who embrace certain changes might benefit from considering them with doubt as well as hopefulness. (After all, as things change, we always gain and lose.) But, when it comes down to it, the future happens no matter how comfortable we are in the present, and I believe those who choose to meet it with enthusiasm and cleverness despite their misgivings will be happier as it comes.
I work in a public library. Right now, at my branch, we're seeing more patrons than ever, but I have no delusions about how the future decrease in the printing of both popular and literary books will challenge our library system. As long as librarians and library users value the role of the public library, though, I keep faith that it can live up to its value. It's up to the public library community to figure out how to do so, even if we find ourselves uncomfortable.
And on an aside--If Franzen really means to assert that serious readers only read print, all I would say is that he seems to be great at sticking his foot in his mouth. Maybe he likes it that way, and I doubt it will lose him any readers. I still hope to read him one day, and I might even do it on my Kindle. :)
- February 16, 2012 at 3:02 PM
- Courtney Price said...
Oh my holy crap.
I think people who write about how much they hate facebook are far more ruined & time-wasting than those of us who check in real quick (oh, look! my SIL had a baby!) and MOVE ON with our very real, very fulfilling LIVES :)
My point in a nutshell: writers, settle down.
- February 16, 2012 at 3:47 PM
- Roger Floyd said...
I suspect there's several reasons for the criticism of social networking sites. One may have to do with the fact that it's something new, and authors are used to doing things their own way, so having to change how they market their books is difficult for them and requires their taking time to learn all about it. Second, authors are frequently solitary people, used to working alone most of the time, and now here they are, having to take time to interact with others which they may find difficult to do, and may take time from their writing. Third, it may stem from the fact that publishing houses are abandoning authors more and more and putting marketing and promotion duties on the author, and well-established authors like Franzen react angrily by denigrating the social networking sites, even though those aren't the real cause of their anger. As a new writer myself and not published in fiction, I'm appalled and disgusted at the way writers are treated by publishers. It's getting harder and harder to get published these days, but the social networking sites are not to blame. I'm probably older than any of the writers you mentioned, but I use and embrace Facebook (though not Twitter, I do think that's for the birds). After all, Facebook is how I get to your blog through the updates that come through my Facebook page.
Enough said.
- February 16, 2012 at 4:02 PM
- Darley said...
If my 75 year old father can embrace the Internet then everyone can.
- February 16, 2012 at 5:49 PM
- Gehayi said...
Much, I suspect, is due to people insisting that, say, print is dead and the books that they love are on their way out. No one likes to hear that something he or she loves is obsolete and needs to be thrown away, especially if he or she still sees value in it. I think that a lot would come around to the idea of "E-books/Kindles/social networking aren't THAT bad" if the technophiles would stop insisting that e-books and Kindles and such are not only valuable but the only possible future...indeed, the only future worth having.
No one likes to hear that the things that they love will cease to exist in a few years, and good riddance. Of course they're resistant to that attitude! It's human nature to cling to what you love and to fight to preserve it, especially if you feel that it's being threatened.
And, to be honest, social networking on places like Facebook, Tumblr and Twitter is not very social. People post comments on Facebook (and on Blogger)--but there are no threads of comments; you can't have a conversation in writing with someone. I have seen no conversations on Tumblr; people post, people like the post and people re-blog the post. Twitter is limited to 150 characters. I think that a lot of writers see social networking, in many cases, not as promoting communication and thought but as curtailing both.
- February 16, 2012 at 5:58 PM
- KNOTTER said...
The Allegory of the Cave comes to mind.
- February 16, 2012 at 6:01 PM
- Jillian Stone said...
I am a debut author who is published in both print and e-book. When I first saw my debut title up on Amazon it was great thrill. I e-mailed all my friends and told them they could pre-order!!!
Then my release date came and I immediately made the rounds of all the local B&Ns. Discovered my book was on the New Releases shelf! Equally thrilling! I took a jpg of my book with my iPhone and posted it to my blog page on my website!
I think I love both high and low tech. Not sure that one without the other would be as wonderful.
- February 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM
- AM Riley said...
The music and sound industries already went through this.
In 1994 a tape transfer house my production was using had a sign on their counter that read "The Future of Digital is Analogue".
Needless to say they are out of business.
- February 16, 2012 at 6:46 PM
Well, lit writers do tend to be big on tradition - paper over word processors,plots with cerebral rather than visceral entertainment (if it's meant to entertain at all)... but the Internet is about laughing at silly stuff, learning highly interesting but completely useless facts... we DON'T worry about the human condition. We have fun, and a great deal of it involves zero intelligence. Zero personality too, maybe, and lit writers fear that. Their issue is that so many of them completely dismiss the web - they refuse to wait around for the benefits. And I think that hurts their readership.
- February 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM
I've completed a manuscript, and I just wanted to know whether it would be okay to walk into a literary agent's office and query in person. I live in manhattan.
With my best,
- February 16, 2012 at 9:28 PM
- Nathan Bransford said...
Strongly, strongly advise against it.
- February 16, 2012 at 9:29 PM
- Anna said...
I'm an aspiring lit author and I'm on twitter. So are Lauren Groff (author of the gorgeous forthcoming Arcadia), Jami Attenberg, and the much-anthologized Sherman Alexie. It becomes more difficult to market yourself as a lit writer using online tools such as twitter and blogs because your audience isn't necessarily online, unlike, perhaps, YA, which has an established online community. Most of my preferred agents aren't on twitter, they don't have blogs. It's just a different community that has different expectations as to how to market your writing. For me, publication in a little mag will mean more than cultivating a following of thousands as far as my career goes. Do I think that lit writers should ignore the internet? No. But I don't think that Zadie Smith is entirely wrong in her assessment.
- February 16, 2012 at 9:30 PM
Thank you Nathan. I'll go the conventional query route. It was tempting to walk in since these agents' offices are mere blocks from me haha.
Thanks again. It's a great resource you have here for would-be writers.
- February 16, 2012 at 9:47 PM
- Alyson said...
In a slightly different vein, it also brings to mind the question as to whether established literary writers are willing or would be able to write convincingly about technology. We can't imagine 19th century literature without the epistolary device, but it's hard (for me) to imagine serious literary works involving social media sites, text messaging, or any reference to technology which might be dated in another two years.
- February 16, 2012 at 10:25 PM
On the matter of Facebook. Sorry, I don't make friends that easily. If Facebook allowed me to indicate "acquaintances", I'd be just fine with it.
On the matter of E-books. Battery life and readability of the screen have been solved. What hasn't been solved is how to do the equivalent of flipping the pages until you see something interesting and then reading from there. I just did that with a book. Started in the middle of a paragraph that caught my eye and an hour later I was still reading. That's really hard to do with any of the e-readers that I've seen. That's also how I determine if I'm going to buy a book at a bookstore, and again, you can't do that with an e-book. (Of course that plays merry hob with the author's intent, but that's just too bad.)
- February 16, 2012 at 11:03 PM
- Sigal Tzoore said...
Funny that when I read your title I thought the blog was going to be about writers being afraid of technology, as in still using typewriters instead of the computer. It took me years to learn how to double space.
But afraid of technological advances -- considering the number of writers tweeting, blogging, publishing e-books, putting out there trailers of their books, and altogether using every ounce of technology that seems (to my amateur eyes at least) available today -- I don't know if I'd agree with that.
But I liked your quotes of the grumpy anti-tech writers anyways.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:10 PM
- D.G. Hudson said...
Interesting points, Nathan.
I don't think all literary writers are technophobic, just the ones who make the headlines.
As for the social networks, they need more security and better blocking/screening ability.
- February 16, 2012 at 11:25 PM
- Ishta Mercurio said...
Nathan, Nathan, just when I have a blog post all planned, you write something that makes me want to blog my response instead. Why do you keep doing this to me? ;-) Kidding.
Okay, seriously.
First, I really hate that everyone here seems to think that young people have embraced the digital world and it's only old curmudgeons who aren't really that into it. I'm 33, I've had a computer since I was eight, and I'm in the paper and ink camp. Just sayin'.
Part of it is time. We only have so much, and learning how to use all this stuff and use it effectively takes a whack of time. And I don't think I'm the only one who feels like just when I get the hang of something, everyone has moved on to something else. (Pinterest? REALLY? Come ON.) I'd rather be writing.
Plus, there's the fact that Twitter and Facebook and the Blogosphere are basically just electronic versions of High School, where the cool and witty kids have bazillions of followers and the rest of us struggle to rack up more than five. A lot of us chose writing so we could get away from those uber-cool people and feel successful at our own thing.
And I think there's something to Zadie Smith's comment. Sure, I can read your witty posts on Twitter. I can read and "Like" your Facebook page and comment on your blogs. But if I met you on the street and acted like I know you, you'd call the cops and take out a restraining order, because the fact is that I DON'T know you. I just know what you choose to post about. I only know about a tiny, tiny piece of the man named Nathan Bransford. And you only know about a teeny, tiny piece of me, the writer named Ishta Mercurio-Wentworth.
When I meet my writer friends in person, I get the whole person: the facial expressions that say that even though they're putting on a brave face, the waiting is really getting to them; the stories about kids and spouses that are too private for the Twitterverse; the banter and fast exchanges that stimulate ideas; the look of their notebook as they scribble in it. And they get the whole me.
I love email: it helps me keep in touch with my close friends in Seattle and Connecticut and Australia and England. I use Twitter: it lets me chat briefly with other writers about specific topics at pre-arranged times. And I blog, regularly. And I read blogs.
But whenever I leave my office and meet with other writers in person, I am reminded of this: the internet, for all its wonders, is less. The internet me is a lesser me. And I only want to spend a very limited time being a lesser me.
- February 17, 2012 at 12:13 AM
- Krissy said...
Thank you for the very interesting article. Our writing world has changed so much with technology and will continue to change. http://www.amberlykclowe.blogspot.com
- February 17, 2012 at 12:38 AM
- Mark H. said...
I don't think that's necessarily technophobia, that's critical thinking. What social media is doing to you, either good or bad, is something worth thinking about.
- February 17, 2012 at 12:44 AM
- Neurotic Workaholic said...
I think if they're not accustomed to using things like Facebook and e-books, then they're more likely to be wary about it. On the other hand, like you said, there are people from older generations who have embraced technological advances.
I'm kind of divided on this issue. I don't use Facebook or Twitter because I think both would take up too much time; they seem like a lot of work. But I like blogging because I think it's good writing practice and it's a good way to meet other writers.
- February 17, 2012 at 1:16 AM
- marion said...
Ray Bradbury is a shocker!
I think FB is a great way for a fiction writer to stay in touch with the day-to-day concerns of real people.
But I can also understand busy writers complaining about the amount of time eaten up by keeping up with FB friends.
- February 17, 2012 at 4:04 AM
- HelenQP said...
Franzen is (in effect) telling poor writers not to shop at Walmart. He can afford to be snippy about ebooks. Without estories (short, not books) I might not be published at all. Without Facebook and Twitter, I'd have to grab strangers on the street and beg them to read my stuff.
- February 17, 2012 at 7:52 AM
- Rowenna said...
Honestly? I think it's because most of these quoted writers are bad at social media so they disparage it. "You don't see me on Facebook or Twitter not because, god forbid, a genius like me doesn't *get* it, but because I *reject* it." I feel justified in saying this because I am bad at social media--at least in terms of connecting with potential readers. I'm not an extrovert, and I bet most lit writers aren't either. I've met plenty of writers (many YA writers) who are extroverts or otherwise self-promotion gifted, and they're *awesome* with social media. I appreciate that plenty of writers feel that way--but am self-aware enough to see that it's only the well-esatblished writers who can afford to reject social media in its entirety offhand--and that, in that old maxim "It's not you, social media--it's me."
I'd much rather connect with friends in person and save Facebook for stalking people to see who's gotten fat since high school...but I also recognize that the world is moving in different directions.
- February 17, 2012 at 8:38 AM
- Tiffany said...
I am an aspiring literary novelist but I have to agree with what someone said above me- the professors, the MFA writers-in-residence, aren't helping the peaceful merger of lit writers and technology. I am a creative writing student and my prof is a self-proclaimed luddite- he has a feature cell phone and has just signed up for Facebook two years ago. He is 36 going on 37, so age isn't really a factor, I don't believe. I am 33 and have always embraced technology, am pushing my way through promoting my literary YA novel, etc. I'm not sure where the disconnect is for these writers, though they are the only ones, it seems making any money from their literary works. My professor is not.
As a lit writer I can tell you I don't think I am going to devote all my work to a strict literary formula. I want to make money at this. I want to do this for as long as I can. Twitter, Facebook, G+, LinkedIn, etc is a step I must take to ensure, or at least tilt the odds .85 degrees in my favor.
- February 17, 2012 at 9:16 AM
- Katie said...
I wonder if it has something to do with what they view the role of the writer is. With the advent of media, many commercial authors have embraced it as a tool to connect with fans, and they consider connecting with fans and creating communities for their writing an important part of their job. But literary authors are probably more likely to consider their job solely "writing"; why should they reach out to the people who read their writing?
- February 17, 2012 at 9:43 AM
- Sue Harrison said...
The 2 F's. Fear and frustration.
Afraid of new things.
Afraid to leave the classic ways behind.
Afraid we can't learn new ways.
Frustration at the amount of time taken away from writing to master and use new media.
Frustration that the brain changes (it's documented)caused by using the shortcuts available via new media will mean beautiful writing no longer has a place in society.
- February 17, 2012 at 10:51 AM
I say, "To each their own." I love holding printed books, and I love getting an e-book in 30 seconds. My book is available in both formats, and the printed version is selling better, because people still visit bookstores. So yay! But friends who are on my Facebook, who didn't know I'd written a book until they saw a post, enjoyed downloading right away. So I'm for all of it--whatever works best for the book! ♥ K. L. Burrell
- February 17, 2012 at 11:05 AM
- Amanda said...
What is a book but a box of many characters? And what is a computer/the internet but a box of many more characters? I don't understand how it can even be considered limiting or superficial, especially in comparison to a traditional book.
I think the technophobia derives from feeling slightly threatened... well-established authors around before the digital age may be feeling a bit overwhelmed by the access people now have to fictional works - it ups the competition!
- February 17, 2012 at 11:05 AM
- Wendy Bertsch said...
I believe what we're hearing is the fear of established writers that their exclusivity is disappearing with the power of the big publishers who have supported them, and whose power is vested in print.
- February 17, 2012 at 11:11 AM
- Eva Ulian said...
This attitude reminds me much of Aesop's fable "The Sour Grapes"- which because the fox could not reach them dismissed the grapes as being sour. Likewise, those who haven't a clue how to master Internet say the same thing.
- February 17, 2012 at 11:46 AM
- Tammy said...
I can see both sides. How's that for straddling the fence? My next gig will be politics. This conundrum reminds me of the setting of Fahrenheit 451. Yes, I will be that lady who goes up in flames for her books. I love to caress the pages, admire the art and care it took to create the actual book. Going deeper, I appreciate the actual experiences that lead to the stories I've enjoyed. A virtual adventure is never the equal of the real thing. How to describe the smells and sounds are tempered by what we've known in our past. Your past is not mine and vice versa. I appreciate technology for opening new worlds to me that I cannot afford or physically manage to visit. I appreciate the ease with which the internet makes possible for me to send my words out into the world. Like all things in life, there needs to be moderation. A melding of technology and experience, the virtual and the actual, is the best we can strive for. Afterall, the quill was once new technology.
- February 17, 2012 at 3:43 PM
- Criticus said...
Sorry to disappoint, but I agree with them. How can anyone who loves words and the richness of the English language read Twitter without a sense of revulsion?
- February 17, 2012 at 9:01 PM
- Nathan Bransford said...
"How can anyone who loves words and the richness of the English language read Twitter without a sense of revulsion?"
This sentence is less than 140 characters. Does it lack meaning and inspire revulsion?
A million poets would disagree with the notion that being brief necessarily means dull and meaningless.
- February 17, 2012 at 9:04 PM
- Cheryl said...
"How can anyone who loves words and the richness of the English language read Twitter without a sense of revulsion? "
Well if that's your standard, how can you go anywhere without ear plugs or talking to anyone when the majority of the population butchers the language just by speaking daily without a sense of revulsion? Are you a hermit?
Twitter is not a genre of literature. It's social media. That means it's people talking. If you choose to avoid the global chit chat, that's a valid choice. Trying to compare it to literature, not so much.
*No offense to anyone writing their WIPs one status update at a time. There's no way to account for the artists. :)
- February 17, 2012 at 9:35 PM
- Rachael said...
I'm late to this discussion, but I wanted to chime in because I'm a literary writer, I'm 25, and I don't think I could ever read a book on an e-reader.
I've tried. Many of my friends have e-readers, and I've attempted to read books on both Kindles and Nooks, but there was something about reading on a screen that made my mind wander, and I generally gave up after only 15 pages. In comparison, I can read print books for hours without falling prey to any distraction. I love the feeling of pages under my fingers.
So why the attention deficit? I think I'm enough of a digital native that my mind subconsciously links words on screens with reads that are supposed to be quick and easy -- I can't read a long article online; that's not what the Internet is for. When friends send me manuscripts over 5 or 10 pages long, I have to print them out.
This is not to say that I'm a technophobe; I use Facebook, Twitter, and WordPress, and I'm the social media specialist at my day job. But I can see why established literary writers are leery of the advance of e-books and other technology. The "death" of the print book is something that brings me great sadness, too. When I chose to become a writer, I did so partly because of the desire to one day see my name on the front of a print book, and I knew that getting my name on the front of said book would take years and years of effort and rejection and, ultimately, validation. While I know that e-books take hard work, too, seeing my name on a screen seems like a much easier job: all I have to do is open Microsoft Word and type my name. The concept of having a novel released only as an e-book isn't satisfactory; it doesn't connote effort to me in the same way that a print book would.
I have no idea if any of this made sense, but the transition from print books to e-books -- the general dissolution of physical connection in general -- bothers me a lot.
- February 17, 2012 at 10:20 PM
- Criticus said...
"A million poets would disagree with the notion that being brief necessarily means dull and meaningless."
Brevity isn't the problem. It's the distortion of the language into unrecognizable gibberish such as this:
Great catch by @sullydish reader that Dr. George's objections to HHS regs =rejection of Cath principle of double effect http://bit.ly/AeGnrS
- February 18, 2012 at 9:11 AM
- Mira said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- February 19, 2012 at 2:24 AM
- Meghan Ward said...
I'm late arriving to this conversation, but I thank you for posting about this. I see this all the time among both literary fiction writers and serious nonfiction writers. They're very resistant to social media. They see it as a time waster (maybe they're right). It's difficult to convince them of the benefits. I think Mieke was right in saying that literary fiction writers don't see people reading blogs as their target market. I say the more ways you can reach readers, the better. It can't hurt to try.
- February 19, 2012 at 8:50 AM
- Literautas said...
I'm not sure if it's a generational issue or some writers don't realize that comunication has changed. It seems to me that they believe the internet is a cold and distant machine, or just a fad. But they forget that the internet is just a media behind which there are real people, and these people are their readers!! Readers waiting for the market to change, as our ways of comunication did. A spanish writer said in a great article about this subject that even the sold of carts stopped when Merzedes Benz invented the car! We must stop living in fear because of the future. It's not the future anymore, but the present.
Well, that's all I have to say about it :P
Congratulations for the article and the blog!
- February 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM
- Katherine Hajer said...
There was a lot of material in there for so succinct a blog post... let's see.
I was surprised at the Bradbury quote from 2009, given that he was a guest speaker at an electronic writing conference I attended in Vancouver in 1995. To be fair, his main point during his keynote speech was that authors should worry first about whether their writing was any good, and second what medium was being used to publish with.
I agree that Facebook does suck, but not because it's technology or because it's social media. It sucks because it is a bad example of both those things and is a pain to use. I was on it regularly for a year, then gave up and deleted my account over a year ago. I am still in touch with all my friends and have never looked back.
Twitter, on the other hand, has been wonderful for me. I found out about this blog post from Twitter. People who criticise the 140 character limit forget that you can include links to longer, more detailed text in those 140 characters.
I am 41 years old, and have a teaching degree specialising in English literature and computer science. Because I've had to teach the history of the internet, I know that it is older than I am. The World Wide Web version of it will be twenty years old in three years' time. Calling it "technology", claiming to be a luddite, and then using things like typewriters, cars, and elevators is hypocritical at best.
At that conference back in 1995, there was a lot of discussion about the possibilites of the new web medium. Perhaps we should focus on building out some of those possibilities instead of complaining they don't exist yet.
- February 21, 2012 at 10:28 PM
- Alison Hill said...
Is this the beginning of the end for book signings then? You can't really sign an e-book can you?
Just wondering... I like social media but I also love the tangible, and am starting to buy up as many books as possible so I'll have something to read in years to come. Reading more than two pages on a screen gives me a headache, and I agree that it feels like work! But then, on sites like Facebook authors can really connect directly with their readers, which is nice. The problem is that the internet is now saturated - everyone's an author, filmmaker or a writer, even Joe the Plumber suddenly became a journalist. Remember him? and it's so easy to get lost in that huge cyber slush pile. Yet it does give us all a chance...Hard one this, but ultimately I still love my real books thanks. I'll give you my copy of War and Peace when you pry it from my cold, dead hands! LOL
- February 29, 2012 at 5:26 PM
- Mirka Breen said...
Remember Trivial Pursuits? That game was fun the first time, but quickly became banal. The Internet social sites can become Trivial Pursuits on steroids.
Judicial use can prevent burnout, and thoughtful blogging posts (of which you are top-of-the-heap, Nathan) can make for interesting coffee breaks. But the sheer size and hyperactivity deserve the literary folks' ire. They are classical music to cyberspace MTV.
- March 4, 2012 at 5:51 PM
- Caleb Powell said...
Free choice is pro-choice. Use social media, don't let it use you. But don't knock it.
- March 5, 2012 at 12:13 AM
- Stephanie said...
I came across this blog post while researching for my own blog-response to Franzen's rant. (http://divinesecretsofthewritingsisterhood.blogspot.com/2012/03/novel-20.html) The other comments here have me feeling some hope for humanity! Count me in as a literary writer who finds the sea-change in the publishing industry more exciting than scary.
- March 19, 2012 at 3:58 PM
- Katherine Hajer said...
The Internet was created by people who are now in their 80s, and went commercial in 1995 -- when people like me were in their early 20s. I'm in my early 40s now. I've had e-mail since I was in my late teens, and I consider myself a late adopter amongst my peers.
So, with absolutely no sarcasm intended, I'm confused when you say you're writing for the young adults who created the web (it was created by people who were middle-aged at the time, and the time was the late 60s to early 90s).
I mean, if you're not into it, then you're not. But since your target demographic (young adults) tends to use it quite a bit, I respectfully suggest you at least learn its history. There are several excellent books on the subject if you prefer to stay off the medium itself. Research DARPA and Douglas Englebart to start. Then follow up with Tim Berners-Lee, then the growth of the web once it was opened to commercial businesses.
- March 26, 2012 at 10:14 PM


text:
Mentor Communities and IESD – Capital and VeSys
A community of practice is a way of organizing in a specialized field so people with the same interests can broaden their professional knowledge, learn and interact with others. Web technologies in the last 10-15 years have greatly extended the opportunities millions of people have to network, participate and experience professional growth. Capital and VeSys have gone there too and have a well established site
The way we give now.
For the Capital and VeSys product families Mentor Graphics through the IESD (Integrated Electrical Services Division) organization started some time ago a Web community presence, which is open to any registrant customer with a support contract running for their company. You can register under a pseudonym if that makes you more comfortable (so your competitors don't get to see the competitive advantage your have in the tool). This has been a resource for customers for over 4 years, it is mature and well thought of.
One of the key advantages to customers using the Electrical System Design and Harness Engineering community is that the Capital and VeSys Product Managers are expected to check frequently for topics and contributions in their area. If you wonder what it is a software vendor's "Product Manager" does and what's in it for you – I wrote a post here https://blogs.mentor.com/paul_johnston/blog/2010/02/15/latent-hero-series-277-the-product-manager/ explaining why these people are your friends. Like most of us, these people are busy, so email alerts are provided for them – the subject line of new posts will be presented in alerts and the emails are predicated also on tags assigned to posting. So here's the first tip, construct a good title if you are posting, and make generous use of tags. Mentor's responses in these communities are moderated, managed and and tracked. Generally the monitors are happy with the speed of responses, and they believe that making this "behind the scenes" expertise available kind of directly to customers carries a lot of benefit.
There's not a service level agreement stopwatch running on answering questions or responding, in this informal environment there is no undertaking to respond within "x" hours to any question. But as well as the development people there are also the worldwide practice of Consultants, Customer Support engineers, and the field application engineers attached to the sales force reviewing this community of practice. Here in Mentor Graphics we feel that this hang-out is beyond a critical mass of participants, and the organism "just ticks over by itself" in the words of one custodian.
Types of Participation in the Community of Practitioners
For some communities of practice revolving around software the most active contributors may be skewed to the customer side rather than the vendor side. This happens sometimes because it is a simpler product in which it is easy to become an expert "front-to-back" and then share your enthusiasm and interests with other people. With Capital, deployed workflows tend to be unique to customers so that your customer experience is not guaranteed to be transferrable to another workplace in whole, though certainly in large part it will be. I know this because I have seen people work for different customers re-using their knowledge of best tool practice.
Most of us who speak regularly with users of Capital get the impression there is a positive reaction to the Community site. Analytics can be done with a site like this and there are around 200 customer users with an upward trend on the IESD site I am told. More are welcome, each new registrant will find something to interest them.
The 3 most popular areas of the Community of Practice site:
Electrical Design through to Harness Manufacturing Process including Electrical Analysis – For practitioner issues in the core workflows of customers
Integration area – For plug-in code downloads using the Application Programming Interface (API) of Capital.
General Discussion – this is where people start off posting documents and asking questions when the category is uncertain
An area where there are proportionally more customer staff active than their representation at large in the community is in API work. This makes sense because programmers are much more used in their daily work to reaching out and collaborating to arrive at potential solutions for technical challenges they have.
The more technical the area – we can infer, the more useful you as a user are likely to find the community spirit helpful.
Getting Started and getting benefit – joining the community.
On http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/community/harness?view=overview – the communities site there is a really good search facility so you can find readily all material on a particular topic of interest to you. Most people who join spend some time finding their way around before progressing to making their own posting. If you are feeling bold don't be inhibited – plunge straight into debates and open discussion threads. You can choose to register and interact under a pseudonym so that competitor companies who may also be using the Capital or VeSys software cannot identify your activity or topics of interest and work out how you are deriving competitive advantage out of using the Mentor Graphics software
A typical starter use case for a customer joining Mentor Communities for Integrated Electrical Systems Design is to pose a question where Customer Support isn't a place you would expect an answer. That's why there are so many "How To" postings on the site. In fact, the answer to the question you have may already be out there – so search before you post is usually a good idea.
Worth your time
For new and upcoming customers I make a point of mentioning the Community as an additional resource in Mentor's good reputation for supporting Capital and VeSys. It is your direct line to the experts, plus a searchable library of resources of best practices and advice, concept guides and approximately 150 plugin examples (and growing) examples being a drawing Part ID table and advanced design compare. You can post a question and you can answer a question – both give and receive advice as a practitioner of Capital or VeSys.
What next after you first join – types of interaction?
The key challenge for the future is to keep the site content relevant to user experience and foster participation by satisfying personal customer goals for interacting and on a collective level meeting the community need. We see at Mentor customers who have the Capital software being deeply ingrained in their business processes and that is when the community participants go "deep" in their interaction and share their advice with other practicioners. We notice these because they seem to show us what we always thought would happen: the software let out in the world would be liked just as much as we like it!
We at Mentor also need to get disciplined to go a little against our human natures and also remember to be inspired by the most frequent customer interactions to the Communities site, where there is a steady stream of readers coming to the library of best practice documentation. It is a place where it is perfectly ok to be a consumer of the material. It is more than ok. Providing a place to access useful information and interact with experts and other customers is one of the main goals. Libraries are quiet places. You don't have to interact with experts, it is not compulsory, reading the material and satisfying your need for a deeper understanding of the practical ways in which Capital software can deliver value to your business situation may be enough.
Getting more involved, giving something back to the group.
Beyond a mode of participation consuming the collective knowledge, there are some easy ways to participate actively in small ways and do it very fast and conveniently. You can rate the documents and code examples you download and read. You can leave a short note providing feedback. And you can ask questions, have the moderators and seasoned posters to the community transfer some of their knowledge to a specific purpose. It is good to do this, it encourages your fellow members, and fosters further interaction.
The way it works with most community members is that after a time period where they read material and become connected with the community, you become comfortable with the idea of posting original material which you have created which return the favor to the community for the help you got.
I don't know culturally whether this will make sense to some of the Capital users from different parts of the world, but the process is a lot like becoming a "Pub Regular" – you don't ask to be part of the atmosphere of the bar, don't follow a set series of tasks, you don't have to pass any entrance exam, but after a while it is your Pub and you are part of the scenery there and you are a "Regular." Pretty soon new visitors to the community will be looking to you for advice and pointers about things you know through and through.
In the future there may be different ways come into the Community to foster inclusion and participation, possibly around some special events being organized. It will continue to be a valuable and growing archive of expertise, receptive to new ideas and new discussions, convivial and polite, open into the night hours – people visiting all the time, some staying for just a few minutes, others relaxing into the ambiance of the place, some approachable, some aloof – some garrulous and some politely declining to enter into lengthy interactions. Yes, definitely a bit like the village pub.
Post Author
Posted November 4th, 2013, by Paul Johnston
Post Tags
Capital, Capital API, Capital Harness Systems, Capital Harness XC, Capital Integrator, capital Logic, Capital Plug-ins, Community of Experts, CoP, customers, IESD, Integrated Electrical Systems, Mentor Communities, VeSys 2.0
Post Comments
About Paul Johnston's Blog
Capital is Mentor Graphics' global market-leading software for electrical system design, electrical analysis, system integration, cabling and wiring design, harness engineering and service documentation. My job title is Senior Application Engineer Consultant - that's a subject matter expert label if you don't want to work out what it means. Here are some of my observations and views - comment on them at your pleasure. Paul Johnston's Blog
Add Your Comment
Recent Posts
- Never mind the buzzwords: we want you … Autonomy!
- Collective responsibility and communal knowledge of Capital for the individual.
- Do you want effective Capital training? Because this is how you get effective training.
- Experience training from experienced trainers.
- Propulsion or compulsion: the thrill of device transmittal and new things.
- Avoiding notoriety with Capital Library.
- What to do with a deep or shallow interest in going to the Detroit IESF technical conference 2015-May-19
- I've an A-P-I, a Java A-P-I. I know it is – I'm sure it is – a Capital API
- API times are here again.
- What use is an Application Programming Interface (API) in Capital?

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Parul Institute of Business Administration
Latest News
Dr. P. Ambika Dhiman a Ph.D. Scholar of PU serves as Health Advisor to Hon. President of India
Congratulating Hon. President of India Shri Pranab Mukherjee for successful completion of his term We also congratulate our Ph.D scholar (Ayurved) Dr. P. Ambika Dhiman for serving as the Health Advisor to the Past President and the next elected Presidentmore info


text:
Bookmark this site
NORTH LITTLE ROCK, AR -- The owner of Cancun Cyber, an Internet café here, filed a motion on Sept. 20 requesting a circuit court judge in Pulaski County to issue a temporary restraining order against the local prosecuting attorney and police chief, enjoining them from raiding the business. The venue operates sweepstakes videogames.
The owner-operator also wants the court to declare the café's games legal, even though they award cash prizes to winners.
State attorney general spokesman Aaron Sadler said a response would be filed within 30 days. More immediately, the AG's office will seek a dismissal of the operator's motion at a hearing on Oct. 14.
According to press reports, another Internet café in the region was recently raided on suspicion of operating a gambling house. More than 100 computers were seized. | SEE STORY


text:
What is the best way to wash boxing gloves without ruining the leather or messing up or warping the padding? could i put them in the washing machine on a low wash in a pilllow case or something?
What is the best way to wash boxing gloves without ruining the leather or messing up or warping the padding? could i put them in the washing machine on a low wash in a pilllow case or something?
just sponge em.
BJJ White belt, 2 stripes.
General badmotherfucker.
do not put them trough the washing machine
get a decent fabric spray and some cleaning wipes ~ washing machine will kill them if your not carefull
I would have thought that no matter how careful you were the washing machine would kill them!
As mentioned, Wipe them down, dry them out after use, I have a small towel that I fit into each one after each session to dry them out, then I wipe them down and air them out in the bath.
How often do you guys clean yours this way then?
I clean mine every week or so. What I also do is air them in my shed outside after every use to make sure they dry. Do not leave in your kit bag whatever you do.
If they smell put them in a plastic bag and put them in the freezer over night. This kills the bacteria that cause the smell.
This also works on your trainers.
I'm no gynecologist but I know a cunt when I see one.
Hi all,
We have done some extensive research on the best ways to sanatise smelly kit. There are some ways that delay the stink for a while like freezing and deodorant etc but this is only a very temporary fix and does not kill the bacteria. Washing them in any way does risk damaging the item as its not designed to be washed.
We are now offering a glove sanatising service on our website. Return postage to you is included in the price.
We can de-stink gloves, mitts, kick boots, head guards or anything of that size.
Process does not use any heat, liquids or nasty chemicals.
More detail here :-
Its totally safe for all fight gear and will dramatically improve smelly kit. We will also be stocking suitable antibacterial spray for use on fight equipment soon.
Last edited by radicalfightstore; 18-05-2011 at 08:15 PM.
john radicalfightstore.co.uk
So how long will this process keep my gloves fresh for?
Dettol Antibacterial Spray, Odour Eater Spray, Airing Cupboard. After each and every use. Done
I don't believe in belts. There should be no ranking system for toughness.


text:
Image sourced from thisreidwrites 2013 is a pretty special year when it comes to kicking off the winter sprint of American holidays, because this year Thanksgiving and the start of Hanukkah occur on the same day. It's being dubbed everything from "Thanksgivingukkah" to "Thanksgivukkah". I prefer the latter, but I've seen it all.ThanksgivingThanksgiving is annually celebrated by Americans on the fourth Thursday of November. Its status as a national holiday did not occur until … [Read more...]
Five Ways to Celebrate Thanksgivukkah
November 24, 2013 by Leave a Comment


text:
Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page :
"THE" alternative forum :
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
The time now is Tue 25 Jul 2017, 00:56
All times are UTC - 4
Forum index
Taking the Puppy out for a walk
App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
View previous topic
View next topic
Page 3 of 5
[62 Posts]
Goto page:
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: New Zealand
Posted: Sun 11 Mar 2012, 20:28
Post subject:
nooby wrote:
another way is this Frugal boot of isos. Seems to work best with puppy.
Ooops one use puppy to mount the iso by clicking on it and then copy the dirs out to a subdir with same name as the iso see example.
Beware that the preseed need to ahve right name. ubuntu or mint or custom or ... see examples below.
I have ideas but all depends on your exact needs.
Hi Nooby, each menu.lst entry can be different depending on what boot options are desirable, but do you think there is "one specific menu.lst boot entry" that would be suitable for every puppy iso?
What I mean is - do you think some clever person could write a programme or script that would ask which iso you wanted to try, then automatically extracted the subdirs from the iso and added "one specific boot entry" into the menu.lst (as "TESTNEWPUPPY" for example) and then prompted the user to "now reboot".
That way all the user would have to do is:
1) Run the script
2) Choose the iso
3) Reboot
4) watch the machine start the new iso
5) Reboot the machine and choose a "non "TESTNEWPUPPY" entry if something had gone wrong with the test.
Back to top
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2012, 16:57
Post subject:
Wish I could help you out. I ahve given wrong impression of
what I know and don't know. Sorry to be misleadng.
It is late ehre now so I go to bed.
I put a note here to look at this tomorrow.
thanks for putting trust in my willingness to be a hlper
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 11420
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Posted: Mon 26 Mar 2012, 19:11
Post subject:
greengeek wrote:
Hi Nooby, each menu.lst entry can be different depending on what boot options are desirable, but do you think there is "one specific menu.lst boot entry" that would be suitable for every puppy iso?
This is what I use for testing:
title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz
I click on a Puppy ISO, copy the core files into the "testing" folder and reboot.
Back to top
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
Posted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 06:58
Post subject:
title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz
This part is a good one for puppy.
psubdir=testing That allow it to boot the sfs within that subdir
because some puppies looks for that sfs file on all drives it can mount.
And pmedia and pdev tell it to narrow down to atahd and not look on CD?
Or maybe it set the pupmode level? How often to save to that media?
IIRC there are 12 different modes?
greengeek, as you see I know almost nothing.
When I wrote what you cited that where a kind of relapse
into "Want to help out even if I know almost nothing mode"
I trust that you and I need to learn more how linux boots.
But first how bootloaders boot and when they let the linux take over
the boot.
One can see that sometimes if one look at the text that flies by. bye?
Suddenly it change from one resolution to another. My wild guess
is that that maybe indicate that it went over to the linux script inside
initrd.gz and then it is too late to give it order unless one set up
break points that stop the boot process?
Antix had such Over at their forum they gave example
if one put a 3 on the kernel line then it stop at a specific time
in the script and you can do adjustment of parameters. Going in and
tell it specific things. Using a 9 stop it at a later point and you can
tell the script something else.
I don't know if that is exclusive for that distro or that version even.
Now I need to find where I wrote that text so I can try to recall
what was on my mind at that time. Wish me luck
I gave example
Here is a starter that allow you test some 95% of all variations of Ubuntu.
I give example for a few.
title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
kernel /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz
title Linux Mint 12 RC works ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /linuxmint-12-gnome-dvd-32bit-rc.iso
kernel /LM12/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/linuxmint-12-gnome-dvd-32bit-rc.iso ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /LM12/casper/initrd.lz
title Bodhi Linux boots from bodhi_1.2.1.iso lacks mediaplayer
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bodhi_1.2.1.iso
kernel /bodhi/casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/custom.seed boot=casper persistent iso-scan/filename=/bodhi_1.2.1.iso quiet splash --
initrd /bodhi/casper/initrd.gz
All these three are variations of Ubuntu but they differ in preseed name.
And they differ how they treat the initrd two of them lz and one gz
only two different ways to pack them as small as possible.
such details are important. Another important thing is to not include the
hidden directory named .dist or similar name that one most often makes
it fail in an important way for my purpose.
Now what I want goes against the policy of Ubuntu so never mention
that on their forums. Not on linux mint either or other such forums.
that could result in you getting banned for being illoyal to their agenda.
They want to protect every user from doing fatal mistake and the way
I boot allow those mistakes so people tell me to not share thus glitch
in the armor.
But I am not sure what I wanted to tell you. I trust it was just my inner
emotional need to be of help that got me carried away. So sorry.
Back on topic. What you ask for is maybe partially dealt with using
something they named Underdog?
Barry had a blog entry about it recently. I try to find it.
Remember Underdog?
This is a very handy device for running programs in Puppy from another Linux distro whose partition Puppy Linux shares. Doesn't seem to merit much attention these days - I can't understand why that is - it's very nifty!
For example I have Vector Linux installed underneath Puppy in partition "hda"and have direct access to all these handy utils that Vector has which could be extremely useful in Puppy were they available - e.g. rpm2tgz, pkgtool, installpkg, slapt-get to name but a few.
This little script will enable underdog for you or remove the connection as required. It works by creating the file "underdog.lnx" containing a single line "hda1" (no quotes). The PC will the reboot with this file now in place in the home partition - i.e.
where your pup_save.3fs resides. If you use option 2 to remove the connection without there being an existing underdog.lnx file in the home partition, the script will simply exit without a reboot. Otherwise the script removes the file and reboots Puppy back to normal. Alter the value of variable string1 to whatever your home partition is called.
#this little bash script when run from a terminal will start or remove underdog.
#system reboots after completion of script if "underdog.lnx" is present otherwise will simply #exit the shell. System will also reboot if "Start" option is selected
select item in Start Remove
if [ $item = "Start" ];then
touch /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
echo $string1 >> /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
elif [ $item = "Remove" ];then
if [ ! -e /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx ];then
echo "underdog.lnx does not exist"
rm /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx
echo "underdog removed"
I also attach the script as a file
I screamed Wow Jay more of such things when I read it.
rcrsn51 most likely understand what it is all about.
I wish I could get it too. It is close to what we want is it not?
Barry wrote an answer linking to the blog entry
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Underdog is described here:
Yes, it is a very interesting idea, but has died through lack of interest.
Puppy no longer supports 'underdog.lnx', but I could bring it back.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1433
Location: Ukraine
Posted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 07:31
Post subject:
Dear nooby,
Glad to see you back here. Hang around. We don't bite and miss your insights.
With kind regards,
Back to top
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
Posted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 07:37
Post subject:
Sorry me so confusing. My ADHD seems to have worsen due to lack of
deep sleep sleep apnea whatever.
greengeek I guess you know that hierarchically you start with
POST which most likely are built into BIOS? That is a hardware
ROM? that sequentially goes through what is attached to the Mother board.
Does it have this and that so POST check up that it can make use of them
and flag those that are defunk?
Then it start the boot order. Depending on what is default boot order
or what you have told it to have as boot order it start up floppy first
if it is a very old machine or CD-ROM if a bit more modern or if Netboot
without CD or DVD then it maybe set the internal HD as first media to boot
from. There it also look hierarchically and follow a script.
So the boot loader is rather independent of the distro. Different bootloaders
may boot same distro. Depending on if it is on CD USB one use one boot loader that suites that media best. HD has another boot loader.
So we have still not got into Linux. The boot loader let Linux take over
at a certain point.
Each linux has their own unique way to look for "cheat codes on the kernel line.
So that makes it very difficult to standardize such booting.
One would need some kind of preparation that looked through what choice
the user make at the moment of booting. So the bootloader would need to
have a very flexible script that made a lot of choice or to ask if it
got into ambigiuos demands?
You could take a look at member d4p and his link to a description on
how to set up external HD to boot 145+ linux distros and have them all
on that external usb hd? Where is the link?
I try to find it.
But there no link to the 145+ ways of doing it? Does he have it in his profile maybe. nope he maybe took that away. But I found two persons on the web
that described it and one maybe is d4p? Where is that post then
here is the first link I gave but that guy maybe learned from d4p?
So I still have not found the link to d4p description in a blog entry?
d4p gives this link
from here
I quote part of it here
Here is an imprtant link maybe
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: New Zealand
Posted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 14:06
Post subject:
Thanks Nooby. Actually, there are several things I am trying to learn about the boot process at the moment. (Too much too learn!)
I think this is the method I should use:
rcrsn51 wrote:
This is what I use for testing:
title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz
I click on a Puppy ISO, copy the core files into the "testing" folder and reboot.
This is what I want to do, and I also want to find a way to add an extra step - I want to see if it is possible to write a program or script that automatically puts the files into the correct "Testing" folder, instead of me doing it manually.
That way I would run the script, it would ask me which iso, I would tell it which iso, and it would do the copying and maybe even start the reboot too.
Back to top
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
Posted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 15:44
Post subject:
Is that not what the Ms Win program do that fail to work good on linux.
What was the name? Some two years has gone so I forget name.
unetbootin or similar made by an ubuntu active guy tuxcantfly his
nickname on ubuntu. It reminds me of what that program do and
most likely it is a script?
You should take a look at grub4dosconfig that is most likely a script to
and do some of those part? okay very few but you see some ofthe ways
one do gtk? dialog? Shinobar would know.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
Posted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 15:54
Post subject:
oops reading your title.
App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
You have to be aware that it is of little use to boot live versions.
For to protect the user who want to get familiar with a linux distro
the Devs has set up live session user very restricted in what you
are allowed to do. Sure you will be able to surf and see how it
behaves interface how one get around in menus and so on
but you are very restricted. Not even being root would allow
you to do things in some distros.
So being live has its constraints. I should read your first post
but I am too lazy just now. Hope somebody that knows more than
what I do help you further with the script.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 89
Location: melbourne.au Slick525DVD
Posted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 00:06
Post subject:
An interesting discussion.
Sure, it would be nice to be able to simply boot an ISO from hard disc, but how difficult is it to burn a CD and do it the normal way?
Or are some people just too mean to "waste" discs that only cost 18cents each?
I see certain people here jumping through hoops trying to not make CDs.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
(just my 18c worth)
Back to top
Official Dog Handler
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 12571
Location: Arizona USA
Posted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 00:29
Post subject:
I for one couldn't agree more. The beauty of running from a CD or DVD is that it offers the option of turning it into a multisession CD or DVD, which is the lazy man's way of remastering.
Back to top
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: New Zealand
Posted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 01:15
Post subject:
WindUpToy wrote:
Or are some people just too mean to "waste" discs that only cost 18cents each?
I've now got about 100 CDs with versions of puppy on them. Some are useful in CD form, but some not. If I had burnt all of the new versions of puppy isos that I have seen online that total would be closer to 200.
It is nice to be able to trial a new iso without being forced to burn a CD every time (time consuming as well as costing me about 40cents per CD. How are you managing to get them for 18c each?? Not fair!)
Many people have netbooks that don't have CD drives in any case, so it is handy to explore ways of trialling new versions of puppy without going via CD.
Of particular interest (to me anyway) in this topic is the idea of hosting the isos on a network and directly booting the iso via PXE. It is a great way to get my family and friends to see how puppy works on their machines, without installation, and whether or not they have a CD drive in their machines.
Also, I often find when I reach for a CDR that the kids have grabbed the lot and burnt mp3s. Nothing left for the oldies. I still haven't found my old CDRWs yet - shows how messy my back room is.
Back to top
Joined: 13 Jan 2012
Posts: 302
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 04:33
Post subject:
How are you managing to get them for 18c each?? Not fair!)
I'm paying $9-something, maybe $9.99 for 50 at ALDI. (A+ grade). About 20c. each.
CDs are available at markets for about 18c or less. (B+ B- and C+ grades), but never had an issue with those when I was using them.
You may be surprised at the low grades of the big name brands.
The Philips I used to use were C+.
I never knew what an A+ was until I started using Aldi's.
Back to top
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
Posted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 06:14
Post subject:
Philips here in Sweden where very cheap but many of them totally failed
I tested three of them yesterday none of them worked.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 10521
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada
Posted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 15:27
Post subject:
Flash wrote:
I for one couldn't agree more. The beauty of running from a CD or DVD is that it offers the option of turning it into a multisession CD or DVD, which is the lazy man's way of remastering.
As well, even if you make a pup-save file on your HD, your CD becomes your key to your system, thus a safety feature: no optical disk, then no access to Puppy.
That said, I'll still try out some of nooby's grub listings. It would be nice to be able to run say a Mepis or a Ubuntu from iso and have a persistent file.
« Un insensé sur le trône n'est qu'un singe sur le haut d'un toit. » / "A madman
on the throne is just a monkey on top of a roof." (Bernard de Clervaux)
Back to top
Display posts from previous:
All Posts
1 Day
7 Days
2 Weeks
1 Month
3 Months
6 Months
1 Year
Sort by:
Post Time
Post Subject
Page 3 of 5
[62 Posts]
Goto page:
View previous topic
View next topic
Forum index
Taking the Puppy out for a walk
Jump to:
Select a forum
Forum index
|___ House Training
| |___ Beginners Help ( Start Here)
| |___ Users ( For the regulars )
| | |___ Usuarios de habla Hispana
| | |___ Für deutschsprachige Anhänger
| | |___ Pour les francophones
| |
| |___ HOWTO ( Solutions )
| |___ Bugs ( Submit bugs )
|___ Advanced Topics
| |___ Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff)
| | |___ Package Collections / Repositories
| | |___ Browsers and Internet
| | |___ Business
| | |___ Compiling
| | |___ Desktop
| | |___ Documents
| | |___ Drivers
| | |___ Educational
| | |___ Engineering/Science/Simulation
| | |___ Eye Candy
| | |___ Filesystem
| | |___ Games
| | |___ Graphics
| | |___ Multimedia
| | |___ Network
| | |___ Security/Privacy
| | |___ System
| | |___ Utilities
| | |___ Virtualization
| | |___ Unsorted
| |
| |___ Cutting edge
| | |___ Multi-session live-CD/DVD
| |
| |___ Hardware
| | |___ Audio
| | |___ Networking
| | | |___ Dialup
| | | |___ Ethernet
| | | |___ Wireless
| | |
| | |___ Printers
| | |___ Video
| |
| |___ Puppy Derivatives
| |___ Puppy Projects
| |___ Next Puppy Development
| | |___ 4.x
| | | |___ Bugs (4.x dev)
| | | |___ Usability Issues (4.x dev)
| | |
| | |___ 5.x
| | |___ Bugs (5.x dev)
| | |___ Usability Issues (5.x dev)
| |
| |___ Localization Project
| |___ Documentation Project
|___ Taking the Puppy out for a walk
| |___ Announcements
| |___ Puppy Power
| |___ Suggestions
| |___ Misc
|___ Off-Topic Area
|___ Programming
|___ Security
post new topics in this forum
reply to topics in this forum
edit your posts in this forum
delete your posts in this forum
vote in polls in this forum
attach files in this forum
download files in this forum
Powered by
© 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0896s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0065s) ][ GZIP on ]


text:
Spurs Win 14th in a Row!
San Antonio, TX (SportsNetwork.com) - The odds are not looking good for the Philadelphia 76ers.
One more loss stands between them and a dubious distinction of ineptitude.
Austin Daye netted 22 points off the bench and the San Antonio Spurs handed the Sixers their 25th straight loss following a 113-91 rout on Monday night.
Philadelphia visits the Houston Rockets on Thursday in an effort to avoid matching the longest single-season losing skid in NBA history held by the 2010-11 Cleveland Cavaliers. The Rockets are 28-7 at home this season.
The Sixers, who've dropped 11 straight on the road, haven't won since a buzzer-beating victory in Boston over the Celtics on Jan. 29. Evan Turner scored the winning bucket and he's now a member of the Indiana Pacers.
Tim Duncan poured in 19 points for the Spurs, who have won 14 in a row.
Tony Parker sat out the game for San Antonio due to a sore left Achilles.
Michael Carter-Williams and Thaddeus Young had 17 points apiece to lead Philadelphia.
"It felt like they were running 100 miles per hour out there," Young said of the Spurs. "They were moving and passing and cutting, but that is a sign of a team who has been together for a few years and has been a championship contending team each and every year."
The Spurs led 31-24 after a quarter of play before they netted the first 15 points of the second to pull away for good.
Daye hit a pair of triples and recorded eight points during the surge, which he capped with a jumper for a commanding 45-24 advantage with 7:20 left in the second.
"He is a skilled guy. Obviously he can shoot it, but he is also a good passer. He knows how to play the game and it was good to be able to get him some time tonight," Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich said.
San Antonio took a 60-44 advantage into the break and an 89-68 cushion into the fourth, where they led by as many as 24 before cruising to the easy win.
Game Notes
The Sixers are 2-27 in San Antonio since 1984 ... San Antonio shot 55.7 percent (44-of-79) from the floor and 48.1 percent (13-of-27) from beyond the arc.


text:
Welcome to the Drummond Island Tourism Website Gem of the Huron Thank you for your interest in Drummond Island "Michigan's Ultimate Playground". We welcome your visit & invite you to come and enjoy the second largest fresh water island in the nation.
April 20-22, 2018 date set for3rd Annual Jeep the Mac to Drummond IslandSpring Jeep Migration
Interactive Drummond Island Map Our map allows browsers to select a region of the island and find points of interest. You can also click onto these areas to view photos and information. Touring the island with the help of our interactive map will allow you to learn about sunken shipwrecks, the fossil ledges, ATV / ORV trails and more.
A Unique Paradise 27 holes of Golf, one of the largest closed loop trail systems for off road - ATV / ORV exploration in the U.S. World Class kayaking, fantastic birding, hiking, biking. 17 Drummond Island shipwrecks and the Alvar. Drummond is 68% state owned, with 53 outlying Islands including, Harbor Island National Wildlife Refuge. Groomed snowmobile trails, cross country skiing, great fishing year around and sunsets unmatched anywhere! You are a click away from an adventure only your imagination can limit!
Rare Species, Landscapes and Plants Drummond Island is comprised of 87,000 acres, 150 miles of rugged scenic shoreline, 133 square miles of forested lanscape, and 34 inland lakes. Within this diverse habitat, a number of rare species, land formations and plants can be found. To learn more about our Island's rarities, please visit our Rare page written by your web-guide, Jody M. Clark and explore the Natural History of Drummond Island. This informative part of the website will help readers find incredible facts on a number of subjects: Puddingstones, Maxton Plains, Alvar, Dry Non-acid Cliffs, Boreal forests, Prarie Smoke, Round-leaved Orchis, Calypso, the Yellow Rail, Leconte's Sparrow, the Common Loon, and the Hine's Emerald Dragonfly, just to name a few.
If you look to the north, some nights will bring about a spectacular display of flickering colors known as the Aurora Borealis, more commonly called the Northern Lights. This is an experience you will not soon forget. Spring and fall bring perch into the shallow water. All sizes and ages of perch are present, ensuring years of great fishing. There is a lot of action and taking a limit is common. The focus now turns to the opener for northern pike and walleye fishing. Read More»


text:
Search results for Australia
Refine your search
a few practical search tips
OK, so you might find the navigation structure a bit challenging. These tips might help you.
- Start your search with any selection from the main categories; country, activity or specialty.
- When using the search panel, you'll never see "sorry, no results" (I hate those), so you are only presented with "real" options to choose from.
- To make sure you will find enough interesting activities, start with broad criteria (a whole country or region, for example, or the highest level of type or specialty), next you can start fine-tuning.
- Try to wait with searching on specific cities, use the 'show results of this page on map' option to get an idea of the possibilities in a bit wider area.
- Next, you can next refine your search with choosing from any available dropdown box.
- Dropdown boxes with a minus sign (-) have no options available in your current search context.
- You can skip any search box you like, despite the 'select one' text.
- Once the results are shown, you can always change or refine your search, by changing your previous criteria.
- Make sure to press the 'show' button again after you updated your search criteria.
- You can navigate quickly through the drop-down lists, by typing the first characters of the search term you are looking for.
- A maximum of 50 results are shown on one page, so that's also the maximum number of activities you can see on the map.
»Show map with results of this page
Did you expect to find a certain activity and couldn't find it?
»Please help us to complete the activity collection and add it!


text:
M&Ms M'Prove America: Donate Now! [CHARITY]
Garrett & Anthony will be in Charlotte, NC on Monday with NASCAR's Kyle Bush (and the No. 18 M&M's Toyota Team) to help build two homes for Habitat for Humanity.
The effort is part of M&Ms M'Prove America campaign, which is a year-long partnership with Habitat for Humanity International.
M&M plans to donate $500K to fund the construction of Habitat for Humanity homes in the U.S. in 2013.
Fans can pledge to help M&Ms M'Prove America at: Mproveamerica.com


text:
Natural languages
If you're interested in learning, reinforcing or teaching a natural language, please sign up here, indicating your fluency level.
[edit] Greek
Thatha is a native speaker of Modern Greek with some fluency in Classical Greek (also a linguist by training). If enough people care, I'd love teaching a class, but not 'till 2010H2.
[edit] German
I went ahead and move the discussion here: German
[edit] Spanish
here's a link to the Spanish workshop:
Spanish_learning_at_8:30 <---- this is the signup page
[edit] French
French is a thing that happens here.
[edit] Hindi
[edit] Japanese
[edit] Mandarin
Mandarin Corner started around November 2008, but its current scheduling of 5pm Fridays doesn't seem to bring high levels of attendance. Rescheduling might help, or perhaps we have collectively lost interest...?
[edit] Diacritic Marks / Foreign Characters
Seeing as we are a diverse group not only in choice of natural language(s) to study but also in computer OS needed to study them, it seems reasonable to note the best ways to create the symbols needed by those languages.
Mac OS X -
- http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.5/en/8164.html
- http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/diacritics.html
Windows -
Linux -


text:
When ex-Vegas showgirl and local business owner Bunny Reid starts an online dating service called Cupid's Cat's Meow, out-of-town visitors flock to her bowling alley for the speed dating and cat show events that she hosts to bring in extra cash. Bunny's scheme sounds harmless enough, but school psychologist Skye Denison knows all too well that an influx of strangers in Scumble River always spells trouble….
Meanwhile, Skye is convinced that her house is haunted and is afraid her fiancé, police chief Wally Boyd, won't move in until the ghost moves out.
But ghost-hunting takes a back seat when Skye is called to the bowling alley, where a riled up contestant is choking a cat show judge for insulting his feline. Skye breaks up the scuffle, but the next morning the judge's dead body is found, strangled with a cat toy. Now Skye must solve this purrplexing mystery—and show a devious killer that her sleuthing skills are the cat's meow.
©2012 Denise Swanson (P)2012 Audible, Inc.
Love a good mystery, suspence or southern literature.
"Another good mystery"
I enjoyed listening to this cute mystery.
I do like the entire series and always enjoy visiting the characters in the series

"A little light on the murder mystery this time"
This was another good Scumble River tale.
I always enjoy the interplay between the mystery and the main character in this series. This book falls a little short of the normal balance between the two. The story was a little heavy on the personal life of Skye and too light on the mystery.
I love listening to this series. Ms. Leto has a great voice and does a great job in her performance. After listening to many, many hours of audio books, I love listening to a book in which the narrorator's performance and the content spur my imagination into being able to picture each character. At the same time, they should never detract or distract from the story. Ms. Leto does this well.
"Another good book"
Denise Swanson has kept this long running series fresh and interesting. Murder of the Cat's Meow is an entertaining and fun read. There were many twists and turns and lots of interesting characters. I would recommend this book and this series to anyone.
"Good, but not her best story."
This latest installment of the continuing saga of Skye and Scumble River is a good listen, but definitely not her best work.
The plot was rather off-the-wall but then, it's organizing character, Bunny, is a rather off-the-wall character so it works. I had a hard time believing the villain was as blatantly irksome as she is portrayed. It just didn't ring true to me.
The narrator, as usual, was great! Great voices and the sardonic humor of Ms. Swanson was appropriate.
Overall, I enjoyed the book. But, I've enjoyed the other Swanson books a bit more. It did not put me off the series and I'll listen to her next installment. I'm not sure it was worth an entire credit though.... but, if it were on a 4.95 sale, yes.
"Enjoyed it."
This was my first book in this series. I'll definitely try another one.
I felt that the writing style let something to be desired, but I stuck with it and the story was funny, cute and entertaining.
The narrator did a great job and made me want to stick with it all the way to the end.
For example, there's a few lines about a phone ringing and the character wonders who would be calling at this hour.... the author took us through an introduction of characters as the main character guessed who was on the phone... only after all that does she think to look at the caller id. It's a cute convention for character introduction, I just didn't care for it that much. Personal taste - I'm sure it won't bother most folks. :-)
"Very entertaining"
I enjoy a good mystery and this was just the right fit.
I mostly read James Patterson so this was a lighter side from his murder mysteries which I found more enjoyable.
Ms. Leto's performance was very good. she kept my attention and I found myself not wanting to stop listening. Great oratory.
I just ordered the first book in this series and I am sure will order all of them either in audible or to read.

"Scumble River is a Place you need to Visit!!!"
I'd put it in the top 5.
I love this series and this one was done very well.
You should listen/read to the whole series!!
Report Inappropriate Content
If you find this review inappropriate and think it should be removed from our site, let us know. This report will be reviewed by Audible and we will take appropriate action.


text:
the site is undergoing a major facelift.
(right now it's all hopped up on painkillers and is totally worthless, though we are hoping for a speedy recovery.)
In the meantime, you can:
go over here to see my books
or here to see some of my writing
or here to visit my site for teens
or you can email me


text:
Shrimp Teriyaki and Rice with Pea's and Carrots
3 pounds of shrimp cleaned deveined with tails marinade below: ( you can substitute chicken, beef or pork)
1 cup soy sauce
1 cup water
3/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup Worcestershire sauce
3 tablespoons distilled white vinegar
3 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 teaspoons garlic powder
1 clove of minced garlic
Mix this all together and this is the perfect marinade!~
Place shrimp and marinade at least 30. Grill for 3 to 4 minutes on high each side either outside or on a indoor grill.
Rice Recipe:
Boil 1 1/2 cups of rice of choice to package directions.
In a large fry pan, heat 3 tablespoons of butter and 2 cloves of minced garlic saute till soft. Scramble two beaten eggs in the butter and garlic. In a small saucepan or microwave, par boil 1/2 cup of julienne style carrots and 1 cup of frozen pea's till they still have a bite to them, drain well. Add to the butter, garlic and egg mixture in the frypan. Add the cooked rice. Mix 1/4 soy sauce and 1/2 cup of water together add to the pan, heat till warm.
Place rice in a large dish, add shrimp on top and serve.
10 comments:
- Kathy Gori said...
I love all the shrimp Claudia. It looks yummy!
- February 12, 2011 at 1:52 AM
- Melynda said...
Wow, that's a lot of shrimp! Looks delicious, as always. Shrimp has always been a favorite, this would be so good. thanks Claudia
- February 12, 2011 at 10:04 AM
- Patti said...
This looks great Claudia! I tried making fried rice the other night..not so good. Def going to try this!
- February 12, 2011 at 11:49 AM
- Sandra said...
Yummy!That first photo..ohh I am drooling!
- February 12, 2011 at 5:36 PM
- Drick said...
sweet shrimp, grilled to perfection... yummmy
- February 12, 2011 at 7:47 PM
- redkathy said...
Looks so yummy and perfect timing Claudia, I'm going to use your marinade with pork today. I was looking for a new marinade, thanks!
- February 13, 2011 at 4:12 PM
- Claudia said...
Heaven on a plate!
- February 14, 2011 at 4:51 PM
- Shelby said...
Can you believe it would have been warm enough to grill today if we were eating early? Its windy tonight and supposed to get cold but we were close to 60 today!
Looks yummy and I love shrimp!
- February 14, 2011 at 7:55 PM
- Cajun Chef Ryan said...
Such a great dish.
- February 15, 2011 at 1:35 PM
- Magic of Spice said...
My this looks and sounds delicious! I love teriyaki :)
- February 17, 2011 at 4:35 PM


text:
Bookmark this site
NORTHFIELD, IL -- Mondelez International Inc. revenue fell short of its forecast for the second time in its two quarters as an independent company.
Net profit for the fourth quarter was $534 million, or 30¢ a share, down from $830 million, or 47¢ a share, a year earlier. Revenue fell 1.9% to $9.5 billion during the period.
The maker of Oreo cookies, Trident gum and Cadbury chocolate saw organic revenue rise 3.7%, which was slightly weaker than its forecast for mid-single-digit growth of at least 4%.
Mondelez blamed weaker-than-expected performance on lower coffee prices, sales interruptions related to the separation of its businesses and continued weakness in the gum segment. In the third quarter, the company pointed to "short-term executional" issues in Brazil and Russia, that it said have since improved.
Kraft Foods Group spun off from its parent company in October, forming a stand-alone North American grocery business with brands like Maxwell House, Kraft and Oscar Mayer and a separate international snacks business named Mondelez.
Mondelez said it expects 2013 revenue growth to be in the low range of its long-term growth target of 5% to 7%. But it raised the range of its guidance for operating income to a range of $1.52 to $1.57 a share, up from its earlier forecast of $1.50 to $1.55 per share.