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Hi guys, I'd like to bring up a point I mentioned sometime ago, and that is which info boxes should be used for certain characters. I feel the only proper way of doing this is to use the infobox that rpresents a characters most recent and most major affiliation whenever possible. We already do this for certain people, ie: Snape and Dumbledore's infoboxes are both OOTP as opposed to Slytherin and Gryffindor respectivley. This is the way it should be done, but I've noticed it is not the case for everyone, for example Harry Ron and Hermoine's infoboxes are Gryffindor despite all three of the being MOM employees. I know that many of you will say their house is something the relate to, but that cannot be said for all characters and despite however strongly someone may feel about their house they do cease being part of it when they leave school. Obviously for people who we don't know what they do after leaving school ie: Cho Chang, their infoboxes should remain as they are, however in the case of the trio they are MOM employees, Harry and Hermoine are heads of department and I feel thats more important than what house they were in at school. Anyway, rant over, let me know what you think. Jayce Carver Talk 13:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think it would be best if the infobox used would be for what they were most known for in the books. Ex:Harry would be Gryffindor.--Matoro183 (Talk) 13:03, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- But remeber that we are writting from a real world prespective, the infoboxes are included in this, and despite being well known as a Gryffindor Harry is not one at the end of the series he is head of the auror office and his infobox should reflect that. Present over past if you will. Jayce Carver Talk 13:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- That's a good point. I wasn't thinking about that.--Matoro183 (Talk) 13:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- I see where you're coming from, but I still think that that a character's infobox should be what best defines them, and what they are most often affiliated with. On the other hand though, perhaps a character's infobox could represent what makes them most proud, so Walburga Black's infobox should be (and is) a Slytherin one, and Sirius Black's is an OOTP infobox. Sorry for elaborating so much here, but this topic makes me remember something else. I think we should have a special infobox for Death Eaters, so then, for example, Tom Riddle's infobox could be distinguishable from that of Pansy Parkinson. Margiechocoholic 07:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- That's a good point. I wasn't thinking about that.--Matoro183 (Talk) 13:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- But remeber that we are writting from a real world prespective, the infoboxes are included in this, and despite being well known as a Gryffindor Harry is not one at the end of the series he is head of the auror office and his infobox should reflect that. Present over past if you will. Jayce Carver Talk 13:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually we already have a Death Eater infobox. And as I've said a persons house is not always what best defines them, look at Snape for example, as Dumbledore said Sometimes I think we sort too soon. The only truly encyclopedic way of doing is to give everyone their most recent affiliation. Giving Harry Ron and Hermoine Gryffindor infoboxes when their not Gryffindors anymore is like giving Darth Caedus a Jedi infobox, even though he is not a Jedi anymore, see what I mean. Jayce Carver Talk 09:47, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I didn't realise we had a Death Eater infobox because it's not used on all Death Eaters. I agree that character's infoboxes should be what best defines them, but, in the case of Harry Potter for example, not everyone knows that he grew up to be an Auror, whereas most people know he was a Gryffindor. Also, he's famous for what he did as a teenager, when he was still a Gryffindor. Margiechocoholic 10:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not saying we should use the infobox that best defines them, because thats not always possible to tell. Maybe people who havent read JK Rowlings interview don't know Harry became an Auror, but most people in-universe do, and thats what matters. The fact of the matter is, know matter how famous or well known he was as a Gryffindor he is not one anymore so giving him a Gryffindor infobox is innacurate. He is a fully grown man now, not a teenage boy, he is the head of the Auror office, and so his infobox should be Ministry of Magic. Jayce Carver Talk 10:56, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- From a fully in-universe perspective, I have to agree that most recent affiliation makes the most sense. Presumably, by 2017, most people would associate Harry with the Auror Office more than with his house at school.
- However, I'm still not sure if that should be the guiding principle for determining an infobox. I think we should have a standard like that of the naming of articles, in which it was determined by vote that "an article's title should contain the last name used throughout the Harry Potter series, regardless of marriage". Thus, for example, even though we know that Ginny became a Potter upon marriage, her article is still "Ginevra Weasley", because she is only a Potter for a few pages of the entire series. Similarly, in the series, we never actually see Harry, Ron, or Hermione affiliated with the Ministry of Magic. On the contrary, they've usually been opposed to the Ministry (e.g. in the entirety of Order of the Phoenix and most of Deathly Hallows). I think it would be misleading to give them Ministry of Magic infoboxes.
- Even if we do have an in-universe perspective as a general rule, there can be rare exceptions when they are more logical or practical, and I think this is one of those occasions. Oread (talk) 16:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
We are an encyclopedia and so we have to do things from an in-universe perspective. It's the same reason we write articles from a RWP and the same reason we use characters real names rather than alias. It doesn't matter how many pages he is depicted as an adult for, or that he was opposed to the Ministry before, he joined them. We shouldnt make exceptions because it undermines the whole point of establishing policys. It's certanitly not more logical to have him as a Gryffindor when he isnt one anymore and I dont see where practicallacity comes into. It's not misleading to give him a MOM infobox because thats what he is. As far as I'm concerned if these infoboxes stay Gryffindor then Snapes infobox should be changed to Death Eater, it amounts to the same thing. Jayce Carver Talk 16:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- First of all, I don't think it would be the same thing to change Snape's infobox to a Death Eater one. He defected from that side to the side of the Order of the Phoenix, and he was loyal to the Order for basically the entire timeline of the series. Harry, Ron, Hermione, and so on did not abandon one allegiance for another; they simply graduated from school, which makes it an issue of most recent affiliation. I take your point, though.
- Secondly, having rare exceptions to a general rule does not necessarily undermine them; most rules do have some exceptions to them. And there is already a policy that, as I mentioned above, is an exception to the strictly in-universe point of view. One of the criteria for the naming of articles policy is that we don't use married names for article titles if the character was not referred to by married name throughout the series. From an in-universe perspective, Ginny's most recent name is Ginevra Potter, but the article is called Ginevra Weasley. That is one occasion on which the "most commonly known as" standard trumped the in-universe standard.
- I don't disagree with you that the infoboxes should be Ministry of Magic ones if the standard we are using is most recent affiliation from an in-universe point of view. I just think this should be an exception to that standard for the same reason Ginny's article uses the name "Weasley" instead of "Potter". Oread (talk) 18:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I thought the marrige name rule was only if they are not refered to by their marrige name. Yes I know it says the seven Potters, but JK is describing them as a family unit, she is hardly going to write the six Potters and one Weasley is she? I assumed that if a canon source ever refered to her as Ginny Potter than the article would be moved. Wheras in this case we have the highest canon source possible JK herself that says Harry becomes an Auror so the infobox should reflect canon. Jayce Carver Talk 09:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tend to agree with you that JKR probably said "the five Potters" just to be efficient, but still, her word is law. Therefore, the Deathly Hallows establishes Ginny's surname as Potter in canon. Nevertheless, her article retains her maiden name because of the policy to use the name "used throughout the Harry Potter series".
- On a related subject, though... Do you think Arthur Weasley's infobox should be a Ministry of Magic one, as opposed to an Order of the Phoenix one? Presumably, he returned to work after the war, just like Kingsley Shacklebolt, who has an MoM infobox. Furthermore, Frank and Alice Longbottom both have Order of the Phoenix infoboxes, though they were Aurors as well as Order members, and their most recent affiliation would be the Ministry, since they were incapacitated after the end of the First War and the disbandment of the Order. And should Minerva McGonagall and Hagrid's infoboxes return to Gryffindor ones, considering that they are affiliated with Hogwarts long after the end of the Second War and the Order with it? Oread (talk) 16:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
LOl, I don't know why I said seven Potters, my mind was adrift from it's moorings. I'd have to say that since the Order is technically disbanded (after all is was formed with sole purpose to fight Voldemort) that all members who are alive at the end of the series should have infoboxes to reflect their new stations in life. Wheras Snape, Dumbledore, Tonks, Lupin etc who died in the service of the Order should stay as they are. Incidently do we have a source that says Arthur goes back to the Ministry, while I'm sure he does we shouldn't say it if it can't be proven. As for Frank and Alice, I personally think they should be given the general witch/wizard infobox. Afterall incapactitation is not death, they didnt die in the service of any organization and are not affilliated with any to this day. And yes I think Hagrid and Minerva should have Gryffindor infoboxes as their are both still at Hogwarts. Jayce Carver Talk 08:48, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think that, since we are writing from an in-universe perspective, we should use a character's most recent affiliation to determine which infobox they get. But, like Oread, I think that this should only be a general rule, because there are cases in which going with an older affiliation is preferable. For example, Regulus Black's most recent affiliation would be the Death Eaters, but since he defected and sacrificed his life to try to bring down Voldemort, it would incorrect to use the Death Eater infobox on his article. But he didn't join the Order, and we don't have an infobox for lone wolf opponents of Voldemort, and thus we've opted to use the Slytherin infobox instead, although Slytherin is an earlier affiliation for Regulus than the Death Eaters.
- I also think that veterans of the Order, like McGonagall and Hagrid, should keep Order infoboxes. Veterans in the real world often associate themselves with the unit in which they served long after the war has ended. If we created a Hogwarts individual infobox, then this would supercede the Order infobox for Hagrid and McGonagall, as it is a more recent affiliation.
- When it comes to which infobox to use for Harry, Ron, and Hermione, I'm not really sure where I stand. I see the logic in both sides of the argument, but, ultimately, I think we should opt for flexibility over a strict standard. Although applied on a case-by-case basis, the naming convention on maiden vs. married names is still objective, because it's easy to look at the series and determine which is used more often. Narcissa is consistently referred to as Narcissa Malfoy, and only once as Narcissa Black (in Order of the Phoenix, Ch. 6), thus we use her married name; Ginny is consistently referred to as Ginny Weasley, and only once as a Potter (DH epilogue), thus we use her maiden name. But affiliations are a little more subjective. It's hard to look at the series and say, objectively, which affiliation takes precedence over another, especially if two are held simultaneously. Is McGonagall more defined by her affiliation with Hogwarts or the Order? Neville, Gryffindor or Dumbledore's Army? Kingsley, the Ministry or the Order? That's why I think a strict standard for which infobox to use would be unworkable. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 06:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Firstly I agree with you that Death Eater should not be used for Regulas's infobox, for the simple reason that he defected, technically he doesnt have an affiliation so his infobox should be the Wizard one, unless we make a House of Black individual infobox? However where there is a clear case of a person leaving one organization and joining another then the infobox should be changed. As the Order is disbanded by the end of the series, all it's members who are still alive should have their new affiliations, whereas those who died in it's service should stay as they are. For example Snape, Lupin, Tonks, Mad-Eye, Dumbledore etc should all be OOTP, while Kingsley, Harry, Ron, Hermoine, Arthur and Percy should be MOM. And I think Hagrid Minerva and Neville should be Gryffindor, unless we make a Hogwarts staff individual infobox. I'm sure that many veterans do relate to their factions in war time but that's not a standard we can use in Harry Potter because we have no proof of it. Jayce Carver Talk 08:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with Starstuff. Having very strict standards in some cases simply makes less sense, IMHO. With Regulus, for example, it doesn't make sense to me to use a general 'wizard individual' infobox rather than a Slytherin one, when the latter is more specific and still accurate, even if it is an older affiliation.
- The issue can also be raised with many other characters. Ginny, for example, is affiliated with the Daily Prophet by adulthood. As we don't have an infobox for that, but it's been almost 20 years since she was a Gryffindor, by the logic of most recent affiliation, her infobox should be a general wizard one as well. The same logic would apply for Luna and George, since they've been out of Hogwarts for years, the Order was disbanded at the end of the war, and we know what their careers were. In my opinion, there's no point in making affiliations less specific, even if they are less recent.
- The infobox choice for Harry, Ron, and Hermione is a separate issue, but I still tend to favour leaving their infoboxes as is. For most of the series, they are, at best, indifferent to the Ministry. For a fair portion of it, though, they are actively opposed to it and vice versa. Throughout the entire series (since JKR only mentioned their employment in interviews subsequent to Deathly Hallows, not the epilogue), they are not mentioned as being loyal to the Ministry at all. Even though it's canon that they eventually are loyal to the Ministry, that is not what we see for the bulk of - or even at the end of - the series.
- From what I can tell, we're really debating between two standards for selecting an infobox:
- 1) Most recent affiliation - the affiliation held at the time of death or last stated in the series or by JKR
- e.g. Harry, Ron, and Hermione all have 'Ministry of Magic' infoboxes; Regulus Black's is a general 'wizard' one
- 2) Most prominent affiliation - the affiliation held during the bulk of the series, unless the character actively abandoned an allegiance
- e.g. Harry, Ron, and Hermione retain 'Gryffindor' infoboxes; Regulus Black's is a 'Slytherin' one
- 1) Most recent affiliation - the affiliation held at the time of death or last stated in the series or by JKR
If we do the latter than were going against canon, I'm sorry but it's as simple as that. More to the point Harry Ron and Hermoine did abandon their allegiance as they droped out of Hogwarts at the end of the sixth book, so even if we do opt for the latter they would still have MOM infoboxes. Jayce Carver Talk 14:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- I respectfully disagree. The affiliations are still canon; they're just not the most recent ones. An equivalent can be seen on Wikipedia - articles such as that for Al Gore use a Vice President infobox, even though it's clearly been a while since he was Vice President. I also don't think that Harry, Ron, and Hermione abandoned their allegiance to Gryffindor or Hogwarts. Leaving school in order to defeat the person who is threatening everything you care about -- including your fellow Gryffindors and the ideals of your house -- is very different from, say, Snape and Regulus actively betraying the Death Eaters, or Pettigrew betraying the Order. I meant abandoning allegiance in the sense of defection. Oread (talk) 14:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with Oread. I think that the infoboxes should go to the most notable affiliation. Before, we had a discussion on married names on article's titles and I think we should follow that with these affiliations too (like Hermione Weasley vs Hermione Granger - Granger is more notable than Weasley, and we all know her to be Hermione Granger despite that her married name is Weasley.) -- Seth Cooper (Owl Post) 14:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes the affiliations are canon they were ONCE part of them but are not anymore. Using their house infoboxes does not reflect who they are now. It would be as if Wookieepedia continued to give Darth Caedus a Jedi infobox after he fell to the dark side simply because he was a Jedi for most of the NJO series, never mind the fact that he is not a Jedi anymore and therfore shouldnt have the infobox of one. I know we are not wookiepedia but the logic is the same. Harry is not a child anymore, not a Gryffindor no matter how many books of the series he spent as one. And as I've already said we don't call Hermoine Weasley because we Don't know that she changed her name. Jayce Carver Talk 16:02, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not that familiar with Star Wars beyond the films, but from what you've said, that character actively left/abandoned/betrayed the Jedi in favour of another allegiance? Because that is defection. It's what Snape and Regulus did with the Death Eaters, and what Pettigrew did with the Order of the Phoenix. It is not what Harry did with Gryffindor. It would be misleading to use a Death Eater infobox with Snape not only because it isn't his most recent affiliation, but also because he switched sides. It isn't the same as simply acquiring additional affiliations as one grows up.
- You're completely right about Hermione; we don't know whether she changed her name. But we do know that Ginny did, yet her article retains the surname 'Weasley' because it is the one used most in the series, even though it isn't the most recent.
- In any case, we're all beginning to get a bit repetitive in our arguments. If we can't agree, I would suggest a vote. Oread (talk) 23:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Your right, we just keep saying the same the same things. I really hoped a vote woud not be needed, it seemed like a no-brainer, were either up to date or were not. Maintaing two affiliations at the same time is one thing, but Harry DID leave Gryffindor when he left school. The manner of leaving is unimportant in the bigger picture, what matters is, he left, and ninteen years down the line saying he is still a Gryffindor when he isn't is going against canon, and by extension the reason we have this wiki in the first place. I've just had a look at the page where you all voted sometime ago on the naming issues. And it was discussed that maiden names should be used unless their is a source for having changed their names. I'm not going to make an issue of it, but I do think Ginny should be Ginny Potter as it's canon. It just seems to one standard for the majority and a diffrent one for the sentimental favourites. Also, if you think that we should go by what there best known as in the series, than surely you think that Tom Riddle's article should be Voldemort despite it not being his real name, and Snape's and Dumbledore's infoboxes shoul be Slytherin and Gryffindor, despite them not being their most important affiliations. Sorry to keep ranting, I'm nearly done. I just want to bring up Wookiepeedia on last time, because I don't think Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus was the best example. A better one would be Kreia/Darth Traya, which, I'm not sure if your familliar with? If not please bear with me. Basically she's a character from a Star Wars video game, who, throught the game maintains allegiance to both the Sith and the Jedi simaltaenously (I can't spell it, sorry), only revealing her allegiance with the Sith at the very last moment before her death. There have been countles arguments over the name of the article, wether it should be Kreia because thats what she's best known as, or Darth Traya becuase thats what she died as. In the end it was decided to call the article Kreia despite her having aquired a new name. The one that that was never desputed as far as I'm aware was the infobox, which has been consistently Sith for many months because it was unanimously agreed that that was her most recent affiliation even though there was only an hour or so between her defection and her death, whereas Harry has not been a Gryffindor for nearly twenty years. Again I know were not the Wook, I just wanted to show you an example of how others might view the situation. I'm sorry this has been so long, I just wanted to make sure I covered everything. I think I'm going to go and collapse in a heap somewhere. Thank God for half-days. Jayce Carver Talk 07:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
- Harry did leave Gryffindor upon leaving Hogwarts, just as all students leave behind their houses when they leave school. That is a perfectly valid point. But it's still different from defection; it's not as if Harry betrayed Gryffindor in favour of Slytherin or something. There is also a lot to suggest that wizards and witches maintain some kind of loyalty to their old school houses even as adults - many families prefer their members to all be in the same house (e.g. the Blacks in Slytherin, the Weasleys in Gryffindor); in the epilogue we see Ron telling his daughter to be in Gryffindor and James II teasing his brother about getting into Slytherin. I'm not saying that house affiliations are still the most important ones when people are adults - of course they aren't. I was only saying that they haven't been completely abandoned, let alone betrayed.
- I wasn't familiar with that Star Wars character, but you explained it well. That situation seems most like Snape's - readers were not sure whether he was truly loyal to the Order or to the Death Eaters until the end of Deathly Hallows. But then we found out that he had been loyal to the Order since 1981 (i.e. the entire series). I think his infobox should be an Order of the Phoenix one, as a result. I've never said I wanted the standard to be what a character was 'most known' for, but rather the most prominent affiliation throughout the series. I was only using one part of the naming policy to show how we already have a policy that isn't strictly 'most recent' in standard. I really don't want to open that debate up again, though, for the record, I don't think Tom Riddle's article should be called 'Voldemort' either.
- Anyway...I didn't think this would need a vote either, but it seems to be getting more complicated the more it's discussed. From what I can tell, these are the various suggestions of standards for determining which infobox should be used:
- Completely in-universe, most recent affiliation standard:
- 1) If a character is still living in 2017 and his/her affiliation at the time is known and there is a specific infobox for that affiliation, that infobox should be used.
- e.g. Harry is head of the Auror Office = Ministry of Magic infobox
- e.g. Ron is an Auror = Ministry of Magic infobox
- e.g. Hermione is high up in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement = Ministry of Magic infobox
- e.g. Neville is professor of Herbology at Hogwarts = Gryffindor infobox
- 1) If a character is still living in 2017 and his/her affiliation at the time is known and there is a specific infobox for that affiliation, that infobox should be used.
- 2) If a character is still living in 2017 and his/her affiliation at the time is known but there is not a specific infobox for that affiliation:
- Option (a) use a general 'wizard individual' infobox:
- e.g. Ginny works for the Daily Prophet = Wizard individual infobox
- e.g. Luna works as a wizarding naturalist = Wizard individual infobox
- e.g. Molly does not work, but the Order has been disbanded and she hasn't been at school in 50 years = Wizard individual infobox
- Option (b) use an older affiliation that has a specific infobox:
- e.g. Ginny works for the Daily Prophet, but used to be a Gryffindor = Gryffindor infobox
- e.g. Luna works as a wizarding naturalist, but used to be a Ravenclaw = Ravenclaw infobox
- e.g. Molly does not work, but the affiliation she had most recently was the Order = Order of the Phoenix infobox
- Option (a) use a general 'wizard individual' infobox:
- 2) If a character is still living in 2017 and his/her affiliation at the time is known but there is not a specific infobox for that affiliation:
- 3) If a character is still living in 2017 but his/her affiliation is not known:
- Option (a) use a general 'wizard individual' infobox:
- e.g. We know that Cho Chang survived the war and later married a Muggle, but nothing else = Wizard individual infobox
- e.g. We know that Minerva McGonagall retired as headmistress of Hogwarts sometime before 2017, but nothing else = Wizard individual infobox
- Option (b) use an older affiliation that has a specific infobox:
- e.g. Cho Chang was a Ravenclaw in school = Ravenclaw infobox
- e.g. Minevra McGonagall was headmistress of Hogwarts before retiring = Gryffindor infobox
- Option (a) use a general 'wizard individual' infobox:
- 3) If a character is still living in 2017 but his/her affiliation is not known:
- 4) If a character died during the course of the series and his/her affiliation at the time of death is known and there is a specific infobox for that affiliation, that infobox should be used.
- e.g. Snape was loyal to the Order of the Phoenix = Order of the Phoenix infobox
- e.g. Pettigrew was a Death Eater = Death Eater infobox
- 4) If a character died during the course of the series and his/her affiliation at the time of death is known and there is a specific infobox for that affiliation, that infobox should be used.
- 5) If a character died during the course of the series but his/her affiliation at he time of death was unclear or there is no specific infobox for the affiliation:
- Option (a) use a general 'wizard individual' infobox:
- e.g. Regulus Black defected from the Death Eaters but did not join the Order = Wizard individual infobox
- Option (b) use an older affiliation that has a specific infobox:
- e.g. Regulus Black defected from the Death Eaters and did not join the Order, but was a Slytherin in school = Slytherin infobox
- Option (a) use a general 'wizard individual' infobox:
- 5) If a character died during the course of the series but his/her affiliation at he time of death was unclear or there is no specific infobox for the affiliation:
- Most prominent affiliation throughout the series standard:
- 1) If a character was a student for the majority or entirety of the series, without acquiring and keeping a more prominent affiliation, his/her house affiliation is used:
- e.g. Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, and Neville were loyal to Gryffindor (books 1-7) and Dumbledore's Army (books 5-7) = Gryffindor infobox
- e.g. Luna, Cho Chang = Ravenclaw infobox
- 1) If a character was a student for the majority or entirety of the series, without acquiring and keeping a more prominent affiliation, his/her house affiliation is used:
- 2) If a character was a student for part of the series, but acquired a new affiliation later in the series that is more prominent, use the latter:
- e.g. Percy Weasley was a Gryffindor in books 1-3 and a Ministry of Magic employee in books 4-7 who was staunchly loyal to the Ministry = Ministry of Magic infobox
- e.g. Fred and George Weasley were Gryffindors who joined the Order of the Phoenix = Order of the Phoenix infobox
- e.g. Draco Malfoy was a Slytherin who became Death Eater, but defected before the end of the series = Slytherin infobox
- 2) If a character was a student for part of the series, but acquired a new affiliation later in the series that is more prominent, use the latter:
- 3) If a character has more than one prominent affiliation for most or all of the series, the one that the character is more loyal to or that plays a larger role in the series is used:
- e.g. Arthur Weasley was an employee of the Ministry and a member of the Order of the Phoenix, but he was more loyal to Dumbledore and the Order than to the Minister for Magic = Order of the Phoenix infobox
- 3) If a character has more than one prominent affiliation for most or all of the series, the one that the character is more loyal to or that plays a larger role in the series is used:
- 4) If a character defects ("gives up allegiance to one state or political entity in exchange for allegiance to another") from an affiliation, even if it is his/her most prominent one, the newer affiliation or an old one is used:
- e.g. Regulus Black was a Death Eater, but he left, betraying Voldemort himself, though he never joined the Order = Slytherin infobox
- e.g. Lucius Malfoy was a Death Eater for most of the series, but he defected in the end = Slytherin infobox
- 4) If a character defects ("gives up allegiance to one state or political entity in exchange for allegiance to another") from an affiliation, even if it is his/her most prominent one, the newer affiliation or an old one is used:
- So we have to decide whether we're using (1) most recent affiliation or (2) most prominent affiliation as the standard, as well as what to do when we know an affiliation but don't have a specific infobox for it (do we use an older affiliation, or a general 'wizard individual' infobox?). Oread (talk) 18:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, and I should have been clearer by what I mean precisely by "prominent". I meant it in the sense of "relative importance" and "standing out...distinguished above others". Oread (talk) 18:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
He did'nt defect, true, but he still left, one way or another. And as I've said although some may continue to support their house after leaving school, the same cannot be said for everyone. Anyway I'm done chatting. You've laid the proposals out very well. I'm in favour of most recent affilliation when known. When not, however, I agree that we should revert to an older affilliation rather than use the general one, except in the case of Frank and Alice where not only have they not joined another organization, they are not capable of actively joining one due to their condition. Also on a related subject, using the general infobox does'nt mean the colors have to stay the same. For example with Frank and Alice, Gilderoy Lockhart and others who live and work at St Mungo's, we could use the lime green colors that the healers are said to wear, or we could use vivid orange for obscure Weasley members. Also, I'm working on the European Wizarding Revolution article, and I realised a few days ago, we need a conflict infobox rather than using the battle one for wars. Jayce Carver Talk 07:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
- Both proposals presented by Oread are well-written enough to be used as official policy. As to which standard we should go with, "most recent" or "prominent," I think we should put it to a community vote, as time-consuming as that might be. Personally, I support using the most prominent affiliation, because I think that the standard used for choosing between infoboxes should be the same as the standard for choosing between a married or maiden name. But I wouldn't want this to become the standard of the wiki if it's not what the majority of editors would support. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 06:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with you to a certain extent. The obvious problem is, if we establish most prominent as standard it contradicts the naming policy, which says to use full names vs nicknames ie Ron vs Ronald despite the nickname being most prominent, and alias vs real name ie Voldemort vs Tom Riddle, despite the alias being most prominent. It just seems a bit contradictory for us to use most prominent affiliations for the infoboxes because we use female characters maiden names over their marital names, when we have all characters article titles at their full names despite nearly all of them being known by their nicknames. I'm just concerned that if we choose most prominent because of the reasons suggested, there will be people left right and center insisting that Tom Riddles article be changed to Voldemort and so on. It makes much more sense to use most recent affiliation, which would tie in with the name policy of using characters true names despite them being more prominently known by their nicknames. Jayce Carver Talk 07:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think it would contradict the naming policy only if we used "prominent" in the sense of "widely known", which is one definition of the term, but that's why I mentioned above that "prominent" can also refer to "most important" or "most noteworthy", which is the way I think we should use it. Thus, for instance, it doesn't matter that Ron is most known as Ron Weasley rather than Ronald Weasley by both readers and those who know him in-universe -- his actual character name (legal name from an in-universe point of view) for the entire series is Ronald Weasley. It's the same thing with Voldemort -- there is no indication that he ever legally changed his name (I can't imagine him caring about such a thing at all), therefore his real name throughout the series is still Tom Riddle. Similarly, Snape was probably most known for being Slytherin's head of house for most of the series by most readers and other characters, but Deathly Hallows confirmed that he had been loyal to the Order throughout the series, and it was that loyalty that determined almost everything he did, therefore it's the more prominent one. Oread (talk) 14:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think it should just stay as what house they were in. If the house was unknown then it should be a wizards induvidual box. 220.127.116.11 17:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
It's all gone quite on this front. I do think his still needs to be dealt with, so ,are we going to vote? Jayce Carver Talk 11:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
- I just want to point out our original policy with thi sfor what its worth: we originally chose infoboxes based on House from Hogwarts (or if not from Hogwarts than just the school they were from). If it was unknown then a different affiliation was used, if no affiliations are known then wizard was used, etc. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
- True, but things change as wikis evolve. We've already mostly discarded this policy anyway, as nearly all characters have most recent affiliations as their infoboxes. Jayce •Avada Kedavra•Crucio•Imperio• 09:33, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- Of course Wikis evolve, I'm not debating them. It just seemed (by reading the above conversation) that they were thought to be randomly chosen, this is not true, there was a method to our madness a couple of years ago when we redid all the infoboxes the first time. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 17:28, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- True, but things change as wikis evolve. We've already mostly discarded this policy anyway, as nearly all characters have most recent affiliations as their infoboxes. Jayce •Avada Kedavra•Crucio•Imperio• 09:33, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it should be the affiliation that the character had at the end of the series (excluding the 19 years later bit). So it should go something like this.
Harry: Gryffindor infobox Pettigrew: Death Eater infobox Athur Weasly:MOM infobox Hermione821 16:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


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'"Any time you miss some time, it's frustrating to watch but it's a good step to be back out there and do some of the drills," Vanek said. "I felt pretty good. Obviously I didn't go 100 percent. I'm just easing into it but overall I'm happy with the progress."'
Vanek practices and hopes for game time
April 7, 2010 Submitted by
Via: Buffalo News

subset: commoncrawl


text: I doubt that many current residents of San Joaquin County recognize the name Henry B. Budd. That's unfortunate. A civil engineer, Budd was one of San Joaquin County's most prominent shakers and movers early in the twentieth century. He recently came to my attention because a donor has given the Museum a map from 1912 that . . . → Read More: Stockton in 1912


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He likes the combination of veterans and familiar team players that have been part of the club's success in recent years. There is also the fact of the team only being one season removed from over 90 wins and a trip to the playoffs.
For the Twins to avoid many of the pitfalls of 2011, the starting rotation is going to have to stay healthy and produce on the field. One player who all of Twins Territory will be looking to in 2012 is Francisco Liriano. The left-handed pitcher had his fair share of struggles last season and ended the year with a disappointing ERA of 5.09 and a 1.489 WHIP in 26 games. His no-hitter might have been one of the highlights of last season but his inconsistencies were prevalent during the majority of the year.
Liriano's disappointing 2011 season came on the heels of his best season since returning to the mound from Tommy John surgery. In 2010 Liriano was able to win 14 games, post a 3.62 ERA, throw over 190 innings, and strikeout over 200 batters for the first time in his career. As the Twins headed to the playoffs, it looked like Liriano was close to turning in to the ace the team hoped he would be when they got him from the San Francisco Giants.
Since Liriano pitched the most innings of his professional career in 2010, the Twins gave him the offseason to rest and recover from the riggers of the year. Before the 2010 season, Liriano had pitched in the Dominican Winter League but the team wanted Liriano to prepare himself for 2011. When Liriano showed up to spring training at the beginning of 2011, the team quickly found out that Liriano had not done all of the stretches he needed to as part of his offseason regime. It took Liriano some time to get himself prepared in the spring and the beginning of the 2011 season was rough as he had an ERA of over nine in the first month.
At the beginning of the offseason, the Twins were unsure if Liriano would spend time pitching in the Dominican Winter League. In the end the Twins and Liriano decided to let him make a limited amount of appearances in the winter months. These outings have not gone perfectly as Liriano has faltered to a win-loss record of (0-4) with a 7.36 ERA.
Liriano's team in the DWL made the playoffs and he was asked to take the mound in a pivotal game. The outing got off to a rough start by facing eight batters in the first inning but he was able to escape the mess by only allowing two runs. He would give up a home run in the third and the final straw for Liriano was giving up a 2-run shot to former teammate Carlos Gomez. His final line was 3.2 innings pitched with six hits, five runs, three earned runs, four strikeouts, one walk, and two home runs.
This all leads to pitchers and catchers reporting to Florida in a couple of weeks. The last time Liriano pitched in the winter leagues he was able to gain some confidence and put together a tremendous campaign. The Twins hope a repeat performance will be in order for the 2012 season as he is entering the last year under contract with the club. He needs to show the Twins that he is worthy of an investment for future seasons.
With Liriano turning 28-years old during the offseason, the time could be running out for him to produce on the promise he showed in the past. The organization will give him every opportunity to show his worth in 2012 and the stakes will be high for a man who has not held up well in some pressure situations in the past. The Twins could have plenty of holes to fill in their starting rotation for 2012 and the club needs Liriano to show he wants to be a top of the rotation starter.
Tuesday, January 31, 2012
Can Liriano shine in a contract-year?
2 comments:
- Andrew said...
I'm all for giving Liriano every chance to be great this year, and am trying to be optimistic, but his winter ball numbers left a lot to be desired. Specifically, he lacked control over the strike zone, like he did prettymuch all of 2011. It's going to be a tough road for Liriano if he can't get ahead of hitters again.
- January 31, 2012 at 8:19 AM
- thrylos98 said...
I think that I like Liriano's winter numbers better than those of the other Twins' starters :) Pitching in the winter is not about fine tuning your game but getting some innings in. As since he did that, he is ahead of the rest
- January 31, 2012 at 9:16 AM
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Boss Crush
Lennie - I have a huge crush on my boss! He's never made any advances towards me, and he never talks about his private life, so I don't know what his relationship status is (where's Facebook when you need it?) How do I tell him how I feel without....making it weird at work?
Dear Work Weirdo,
No matter what you risk making it weird at work by expressing interest in your boss. It's never a good idea to mix work and play, but it happens all to often in the work environment. The average relationship lasts 5-7 months, so the odds are you're going to wind up working for your ex-boyfriend. So think of that first and foremost. If you still cannot help yourself, I would find out the company policy on dating co-workers, then I would try to find out his relationship status as discreetly as possible. Maybe you can find out what he does in his non-work hours and arrange a meet-cute. You know in the romantic comedy movies where the leading couple first meet in some cute way. Do you know where he works out? Where he has coffee? Coincidentally, just bump into him there while looking your absolute best and strike up a casual conversation. If he's interested, he might just give you an indication outside of the work environment. But, whatever you do don't become a stalker!


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Asustek Computer has announced its latest Nvidia GeForce GTX 460-based graphics cards.
Asustek offers four graphics card models under its ENGTX460 line with prices set between NT$8,000-8,500 (US$249-265).
Asustek has adopted its DirectCU cooling technology, which places hefty copper heatpipes in direct contact with the GPU core for improved heat transference in some of the models. Its Voltage Tweak technology also enhance the card's performance, the vendor said.
- Wireless broadband developments in Southeast Asia markets
As of 2013, the 10 ASEAN nations had a total of over 700 million mobile subscriptions, with the CAGR from 2003-2013 reaching 24%. This Digitimes Research Special Report analyzes the various mobile broadband markets in ASEAN and looks at the respective trends in 4G LTE development for those markets.
- 2015 global tablet demand forecast
This Digitimes Research Special Report provides a 2015 forecast for the global tablet market and analyzes the strategies of key market players such as Google, Apple, Intel, and Microsoft.
- 2015 China smartphone panel trend forecast
This Digitimes Research Special Report analyzes the strategies of key China-based major panel makers BOE, Tianma and IVO for attacking the different market segments through technology and pricing, and their relationship to local vendors Huawei, Lenovo, ZTE, Xiaomi and Coolpad.


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Provo • Thursday night's BYU Cougars basketball game was played against the nation's No. 2 team in front of 20,000 or so boisterous fans.
Saturday night's game will be just the opposite, in terms of both atmosphere and quality of opponent.
After falling just short in a 70-65 loss to Gonzaga at the Marriott Center, the Cougars head to Los Angeles for an entirely different experience.
BYU (20-10, 9-6 WCC) will take on the league's last-place team, Loyola Marymount (8-21, 1-14) at 9 p.m. MST Saturday at 4,156-seat Gersten Pavilion, which figures to be about one-fourth full, if that.
"We need to get a win there and get on a positive note to have some confidence going into the [conference] tournament in Las Vegas," BYU coach Dave Rose said. "But we will have a challenge on Saturday. That's a really talented team that has had some tough luck."
While BYU pummeled the Lions 92-51 on Jan. 3 in Provo, the Cougars are still wary of coach Max Good's team because LMU surprised them last year with roughly the same players. The game isn't entirely meaningless for the Cougars. While LMU is locked into the ninth and last seed for the conference tourney, which begins Wednesday, BYU is tied with Santa Clara for the third seed.
The Broncos (21-9, 9-6) play at Saint Mary's on Saturday. If both BYU and Santa Clara win, or both lose, BYU will get the higher seed because it swept Santa Clara in head-to-head matchups.
But a BYU loss, coupled with a Santa Clara win, would push the Cougars into the fourth seed and into Gonzaga's side of the bracket. Whether they are the third seed or the fourth seed, the Cougars will begin conference tournament play on Friday.
While glum after the fourth straight loss to Gonzaga late Thursday, Rose and senior Brock Zylstra both said the Cougars are improving despite losing four of their last six games.
"Our team has really taken it to heart to compete together as a group. You take the Portland game, the Utah State game, and then Saint Mary's and Gonzaga, it is a tough run, and I think our guys are sharing the ball better," Rose said. "Just our defensive effort, as far as rebounding and competing, and relying on each other more, is better."
BYU at Loyola Marymount
O At Gersten Pavilion, Los Angeles
Tipoff • 9 p.m. MST
Radio • 1160 AM, 102.7 FM
Records • BYU 20-10, 9-6 WCC; Loyola Marymount 8-21, 1-14 WCC
Series history • Tied, 3-3
Last meeting • BYU 92, Loyola Marymount 51 (Jan. 3, 2013)


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Bob Grisham, the bigoted football coach and teacher from Rogersville, Alabama, has been suspended for two weeks without pay for making bigoted comments about First Lady Michelle Obama and gay people. There are other punishments as well, none of them serious:
Among other comments, recorded by a student, Grisham blamed the school's low-calorie lunches on "fat-butt Michelle Obama. Look at her. She looks like she weighs 185 or 190. She's overweight."
Grisham also mentioned his opinion of homosexuals, saying, "I don't believe in queers. I don't hate them as a person, but what they do is wrong and an abomination against God."…
He has been suspended for 10 days without pay, will be barred from teaching, must attend sensitivity classes and will be assigned "other academic duties" for the rest of the semester, school superintendent Jennifer Gray said.
I don't think this is nearly enough. I thought he had made those idiotic statements in a conversation with some guys on his football team, but he said them during class, for crying out loud. And he even said during them that he didn't care whether someone told their parents or the superintendent on him. He should be fired. He clearly has no idea where the boundaries are.
And take a look at some of the comments on the local newspaper page. Deena Hanback Young, speaking of the superintendent, says:
I have more respect for her now for realizing this was probably a big setup to try and get this guy fired. Maybe that is the culprit they need to be looking for!…
How ridiculous! How would the kid know to start this and then TAPE it if it were not a setup? They probably totally provoked the whole thing to get him fired. LOL, it backfired on them thank goodness!
Yes, I bet a student made him say racist and homophobic things in front of the class. I'll tell you how the student knew to make the tape, because this is almost certainly not the first time he's said things like that in front of the class. Sounds a lot like the situation in New Jersey where a teacher was preaching to the class, telling kids they were going to hell and so forth.
Anita Nafe Prince says:
Where is your "love and tolerance" for this man? "Love and tolerance" only for those who have the same opinion as you is not "love and tolerance" at all. It's hypocrisy.
Uh, no. It's not. Only an idiot would think so.
Ronald and Sherry Chaney went even further:
Where is the fund to make up for the Coach's loss of ten days pay? I want to contribute.
Wow. Seriously. Ron Howard (not that one) says:
Dude. It's freedom of speech. People can st what they want. Leave him alone
Uh, no. It's not. He does not have freedom to say anything he wants in front of his class.
And then Deena Hanback Young again:
I don't think he should have been punished at all. He has the right to his own opinion which was solicited. Was the student who taped this disciplined? I thought they were not to have electronics at school.
He could have used a few different words but I'd be proud for him to teach my daughter. He has a spine, a rare thing these days. I agree with him 100%.
And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know so many of my fellow citizens are fucking morons.


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Surprise! Enrique Iglesias presents on-stage at the iHeartRadio Ultimate Pool Party!
Listen to Enrique Iglesias on iHeartRadio
The iHeartRadio Ultimate Pool Party was, no doubt, a star-studded event. Miley Cyrus, Ke$ha, LL Cool J, Pitbull, Afrojack - how could it get any better?! Well, the sun may have gone down at night, but it got hotter when Miami-native Enrique Iglesias showed up to introduce Mr. 305, Pitbull (also from Miami), with Miley Cyrus.
Check out what happens when Miami collides, as Enrique and Pitbull literally ran into each other back stage! Watch below:
Photo Credit Albert Manduca for iHeartRadio


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The Delaware Gazette publishes daily Monday through Saturday with offices at 40 N. Sandusky St., Suite 203, Delaware OH 43015. Our telephone number is 740-363-1161.
News items may be submitted to firstname.lastname@example.com.
Obituaries may be submitted to firstname.lastname@example.com.
Those submitting items by email should include their daytime and evening telephone numbers.


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HERO: Jogging Woman Finds Missing Infant
(KTRK) -- An Amber Alert is now over after a child, abducted from a gas station early this morning, was found safe near a running trail.
The mother of 8-month-old Genesis Haley stopped at the Texaco Gas Station located at 1110 North Sam Houston Parkway West. Police say she left her vehicle running and her sleeping infant in the back seat while she went inside the convenience store.
Read more from KTRK


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My biggest gripe is the qualification that family specific stones can only be farmed from battleling pets of that family,
Currently working out a list to group the pets with identical abilities - to work out which skin to level and rarify.
Hellomynameis wrote:Tranquil Mechanical Yeti (mechanical) / Personal World Destroyer (mechanical) / Enchanted Broom (magic) / Legs (magic) / Ghostly Skull (undead) / Creepy Crate (undead) / Winter's Little Helper (humanoid) / Peddlefeet (humanoid) / Tiny Snowman (elemental) / Red Cricket (Critter) are my top choices.
Ryazan wrote:For example, when my lvl 25 Personal World Destroyer is upgraded to rare, he will lose two levels. When I level him back lvl 25, will I gain +1 pet leveled to lvl 25 or not?
Moozipan wrote:Feline Familiar got my first stone.
Users browsing this forum: Digem and 1 guest


text:
Ivy Removable Tattoos as part of the Kathy Ireland Collection are available 1 sheet per package (assorted) and come 3 packages per box of the same assortment. These are not permanent tattoos.
General Shipment Timing GuidelineThis product takes about 6-8 weeks before we are ready to ship not including ship time to your area from JKM's facility.
(Product Characteristic: Tattoos) / (Fabric Content: Not Applicable)


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Hazrat Ali, Amir al-Muminun narrated from our Prophet (saas) as follows : "The most superior of the acts of worship is to await the appearance of Hazrat Mahdi." Our Prophet (saas) mentions the Unity of Islam, the Unity of Islam and the need for a leader.
Imam Sadiq said :
"Whoever dies in awaiting Ahl Bayt, he becomes like one in the army of the Qaim, the Hazrat Mahdi (as). " This means that if a person dies with the intention of being a follower of Hazrat Mahdi, he earns equal merit with a person who is from Hazrat Mahdi's army. It is very important to have intentions. Seeking Hazrat Mahdi (as), loving Hazrat Mahdi (as), if one is sure that he is alive, experiencing in his soul his submission and deep love for him. If this becomes the case, our Prophet (saas) says that that person earns merit as if he had struggled in the army of Hazrat Mahdi (as) all through his life.
Our Prophet (saas), " Before his advent, in the period of Ghaybah', We can say during the period he was not seen, imprisoned or he was hiding. 'They ask our Prophet (saas), What will be the benefit of the existence of Hazrat Mahdi (as) ?' That is to say, it is hidden, you can not see him, so what is the benefit of his existence ? And our Prophet (saas) answers:
"I swear on Allah Who sent me as a prophet that during the time people cannot see Hazrat Mahdi (as), people benefit from Hazrat Mahdi (as) as if they benefit from the Sun remaining behind the clouds." That is to say, the Sun exists, it is light but they can't see it, it is behind the clouds but it is still day. The reason for that light is Hazrat Mahdi (as). In other words, even if you don't see him, you benefit from him. But when he appears, you see him under all circumstances. That is what our Prophet says (saas).
Imam Sadiq (as) narrated from Imam Zayn al –Abidin : "If Hazrat Mahdi (as) did not exist, nobody would duly worship Allah." That is said for the End Times. In other words, the dajjal would be all over the world so the Mahdi will be instrumental in people's duly worshiping Allah.
2013-03-21 19:03:18


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Results 1 to 3 of 3
Thread: rotavirus? Amoebiasis?
25th March 2012 05:36 PM #1
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Posts
- 93
rotavirus? Amoebiasis?
My elder son had given the Rotavirus vaccine when he was 4 months old. But he got this amoebiasis with manifestation of diarrhea and some blood on his stool. For my understanding, amoebiasis is some kind of a gastrointestinal disease. Is Rotavirus vaccine not enough to defend amoeba to attack? Can anyone help me clear this?
Because I don't want my younger son to have it too (the amoebiasis) but he also had the Rotavirus Vaccine. Please help.
26th March 2012 01:12 AM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Posts
- 1,936
I haven't been able to quickly find any information that tells me whether Rotavirus vaccine is effective against amoebiasis or not. I'm sure that a quick call to your doctor's office should answer that question, and if they don't have an answer that satisfies you, please post back.
What I did learn is that Rotavirus vaccine is about 71.8% effective on all degrees of severity, from a very mild case to a severe case. I also learned that it's about 98% effective of keeping severe cases from occuring.
If Rotavirus vaccine is supposed to help with Amoebiasis, then my guess is that it actually worked for your son, to some degree, in that your son didn't have a severe case of it. This is just an assumption, though. And I don't know how often the vaccine has to be given in order to stay effective.
I know that Rotavirus and Amoebiasis are much more common in some countries than in others, so the vaccine may be needed, but be sure you do some research on vaccines in general, because you may find that there are some vaccines that your children don't need, and others that they do.
You'll also want to be sure that you give your children vaccines at the right time so you have the best chance of your children not developing vaccine reactions.
The National Vaccine Information Center has an excellent article on the Rotavirus Vaccine and I discuss this topic more in a thread called Rotavirus Vaccination.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Warm regards,
26th March 2012 08:20 PM #3
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Posts
- 93
Thanks Kate for the info.
At first, we thought it was just like some kind of a diarrhea but when blood comes out in his poop that was alarming for me so I called the doctor and she advised to take my son to the hospital. I got him there, had some check-ups and the lab tests. So while we were waiting for the result, I was thinking why this if my son had the Rotavirus Vaccine, this shouldn't be because of the vaccine. Until the results came out, they found out he had the amoebiasis.
I will try to search more for this vaccine and amoebiasis, still intriguing for me.
I know the vaccine would be given 3 times but depending on the brand or type the doctor would use.


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The deal
- Option 1: Meal for 1 person for $58 (rrp. $123)
- Option 2: Meal for 2 people for $108 (rrp. $246)
- Option 3: Meal for 4 people for $208 (rrp. $492)
Each person gets
- 1x All-day breakfast set
- Bacon, sausage, eggs, toast, tomatoes, and baked beans
- 1x Drink, choose from:
- Americano
- Caffe latte
- Flavoured latte
- Cappucino
- Caffe mocha
- Mint mocha
- Breakfast tea
- Earl grey
- Jasmine tea
- Milk with marshmallow
- Chocolate with marshmallow
- Mint chocolate with marshmallow
DMA Cafe
Located on the first floor of United Commercial Centre, DMA Cafe offers its patrons the unique experience of trying out several branded headphones while dining at the cafe for a rich audio and gastronomical experience. Here, headphone enthusiasts can check out the audio quality of a pair of Sony MDR-100AP headphones while sipping on cups of coffee or nibble on affogatos with Bose headphones plugged in. The cafe and music store also opens its stage for up and coming musical talents to share their music with patrons.


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What's Trending: October 9th
|[BCA]The NFL has their own Breast Cancer Awareness campaign, A Crucial Catch, which is why we keep seeing our favorite teams wearing pink during game day. The NFL shop sells ALL types of pink of gear from all teams for fans to purchase! There's gear for men and women. The money raised will be donated to the American Cancer Society.
|[style]Get ready to lose A LOT of your time Keep.com is a place to shop the latest trends in fashion, decor, accessories, and design. It's a similar layout to Wanelo except the items on Keep are handpicked by their community of tastemakers. They pride themselves on the products you didn't know you need but can't live without. HOURS of my life were lost to this site, I'll never get them back, but that's okay. There's an app too!
|[weird]Last night on New Girl, Winston meets a woman at the pet store when he is trying to get their cats together. I think it's perfect timing to tell you about Purssonals.com, an online site for cat lovers to meet other cat lovers! I'm not really sure how I feel about this but if any cat people try it, let me know!


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Tuesday, December 20, 2011
Yarn Along
I had work knitting to do in the mean-time so it's been neglected in a bag waiting for its turn.
I brought it along to early Christmas with the in laws and was able to finish up a sleeve and start assembly this weekend.
I'll be excited to wear it at last!
The book is Rilla of Ingleside, the 8th and final installment of the Anne of Green Gables series.
I don't know what number of times I have read this particular of L.M. Montgomery's books, but it's more than a couple.
It's a fascinating look at the day-to-day lives of a Canadian family during World War I.
The domestic details are what I find most interesting. There are descriptions of hand-sewing hems on sheets, and knitting socks for the boys at the front, along with organizing Red Cross groups and raising money for the war effort.
I just can't get enough of L.M.'s first-hand look at this troubled time.
What's on your needles this week?
18 comments:
- Rachel Proffitt said...
ooooh that looks so cozy Jess! I just ordered some yarn to make myself a cardigan in the new year. Now I have to choose a pattern :)
- December 20, 2011 at 11:05 PM
- Amy said...
Very pretty!
- December 20, 2011 at 11:13 PM
- Linda said...
Your cardigan is so beautiful!!
- December 20, 2011 at 11:41 PM
- momto5 said...
i am always so impressed with the cable knitting. that red is so nice.
- December 20, 2011 at 11:44 PM
- Darcel said...
Love that red, and the sweater is beautiful. Red is one of my favorite colors. Maybe I'll make something for myself next year.
Stopping in from Ginny's. Have a Merry Christmas!
- December 21, 2011 at 12:07 AM
- Happy Whimsical Hearts said...
Gorgeous cardigan, love the rich red. And reading this, I feel like watching Anne of Green Gables again ;-)
- December 21, 2011 at 1:14 AM
- Andria said...
Oh I really love your sweater. It looks just beautiful!
- December 21, 2011 at 1:56 AM
- Kaylana said...
Looking forward to seeing a picture of you wearing it! Can't wait!
Ps. Do you have very much snow there yet? We are supposed to get some Christmas Eve...
- December 21, 2011 at 3:43 AM
- Heather said...
That sweater is beautiful! I have high hopes that someday I will be able to knit myself a sweater...although it might take several years to finish it :-)
- December 21, 2011 at 6:31 AM
- Sarah Jane said...
Good to see you last night and to see the sweater in person- festive, indeed!
- December 21, 2011 at 7:02 AM
- Ellen said...
Beautiful cables and so much work. Glad that you're just about done. Such a pretty pattern.
- December 21, 2011 at 7:31 AM
- Mami Dearest said...
Wow! That sweater is gorgeous! Love the red!
- December 21, 2011 at 7:38 AM
- Crunchy Momma said...
Cables look so intimidating and yours came out splendidly : ) Good timing with finishing it in time for Christmas. Thanks for sharing.
- December 21, 2011 at 7:45 AM
- Madeleine said...
That is awesome!
I love the colour and the texture and it's so appropriate for Christmas.
- December 21, 2011 at 8:49 AM
- Jen said...
Very festive!
Have fun singing this weekend.
- December 21, 2011 at 9:20 AM
- Jen said...
Very festive!
Have fun singing this weekend.
- December 21, 2011 at 9:20 AM
- Lori ann said...
oh my goodness how beautiful this is, i love the red and the cables, i can't wait to see it on!
merry christmas!
- December 21, 2011 at 11:14 AM
- JNCL said...
Hurray for Anne! I've always enjoyed Rilla of Ingleside for the very same reason, those details of war-time life and the fact that it bridges the series across the 19th and 20th centuries. Your sweater is gorgeous, BTW. I hope my knitting reaches that level someday!
The Beauty of Eclecticism
- December 21, 2011 at 2:36 PM


text:
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Oregon Lottery plans spooky raffle
The Oregon Lottery has a spooky new Raffle game – the Halloween Raffle. Similar to the Lottery's previous 10 Raffle games, the Halloween Raffle offers players the best of odds of any Oregon Lottery game of winning $1 million!
Halloween Raffle sales began Sunday, Sept. 8. With only 250,000 tickets available, players will need to get theirs…before it's too late.
"This will be the first time we have introduced a Halloween Raffle," said Oregon Lottery Director Larry Niswender. "Halloween has become a popular holiday for grown-ups. In fact, it's the second highest grossing commercial holiday after Christmas. This will be a great way for adults to add to their Halloween fun.
"Players have made it very apparent to us that they enjoy this game by helping us sell out the tickets every time we've had one. It's simple to play and has great odds of winning a prize. In the world of lottery games, that's a great combination!"
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In addition to this new Halloween Raffle, the Lottery is also introducing two other Halloween-related ways to win: a Zombies! Scratch-it and a Mystery Manor Video Lottery game.
The winning Halloween Raffle numbers will be announced on Halloween, Thurs., Oct. 31, 2013.
The Halloween Raffle replaces the Thanksgiving Raffle this year.


text:
Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Cbz40, Nov 19, 2006.
How in the bloody hell did we ever lose to you guys anyway?!!
Williams/Newman/ Ware/ Burnett/ Carpenter/ A.Glenn/ Romo/ TO/ Oline/ T.Glenn/ Marion Barber, you deserve the game ball.
cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers all around
No One I mean No one Doubt ROMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes it is good to be wrong...this is one of them because I felt we were not going to win this one.
Glad to be wrong
this is the best feeling win i can remember
romo just became the highest rated passer in the league by the way
I have no clue. But right now, it is one of the only games that I can look back on and smile at
we Did Ittttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Temporary brain fart.
It is now!
now it is
Rack, come eat your crow
That's our biggest win since.......since I don't know when. Huge win for the team and puts us squarely in 2nd place. With McNabb out then this division has come down to us & the Giants.
Woo hoo!!!! :dance3: Huge freaking victory!!!!!!!!!!!!
Add CLOVE to that list..thanks once again for the marvelous play by play! I've come to enjoy them almost as much as the games.
And love the new sig, btw.
I now have a confidence in this team that I haven't had since 1996 - the last year I thought we were a threat for the SB. Hopefully this was a signature game.
Bring on the Bucs and the playoff run.
you Did It C L O V E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


text:
AMD has announced new CPU offerings for the AMD Embedded R-series high-performance computing platform, along with the introduction of a discrete GPU promotional program to provide embedded designers more choices.
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The discrete graphics promotional program combines new AMD R-series CPUs with discrete AMD Radeon E6460 or E6760 graphics for driving up to six independent displays.
The new AMD Embedded R-series CPU options are currently available, with products from Advantech, Advantech-Innocore, Aewin, DFI, MSC Embedded, Quixant and other original design manufacturers (ODMs).
- Wireless broadband developments in Southeast Asia markets
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- 2015 global tablet demand forecast
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This Digitimes Research Special Report analyzes the strategies of key China-based major panel makers BOE, Tianma and IVO for attacking the different market segments through technology and pricing, and their relationship to local vendors Huawei, Lenovo, ZTE, Xiaomi and Coolpad.


text:
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My father and I were constantly at odds. I can't remember how or when it started, but I do remember thinking that he was the meanest, most unfair man alive.
That changed right after I left high school as I started learning more about him as a man, and not just my daddy.
By the time I moved to Georgia, we had a solid relationship-an unspoken one of mutual respect and trust.
He wasn't into sentiment, and I wasn't about to broach my feelings of admiration for him. I thought I had years to tell him how much he meant to me, and how I finally understood the man he was.
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DORAL, Fla. (AP) -- Sergio Garcia has hit four balls in the water for a 12 on the par-4 third hole at Doral.
Garcia began the final round of the Cadillac Championship with an eagle. Two holes later, his round came undone. He hit his tee shot into the water on the 438-yard hole, with a pond down the entire right side. He dropped into the rough, and from about 240 yards, tried three times to clear the water, failing with each shot.
Garcia finally went over the green with his ninth shot, chipped onto the green to 35 feet and two-putted for a 12.


text:
Sylvia Shaw Judson (American, 1897-1978)
Benediction, ca. 1950s
Sand cast plaster bas relief
61 x 36 ½ x 5 ½ in.
Gift of the artist in 1974
Sylvia Shaw Judson grew up in Lake Forest and was the daughter of well-known architect Howard Van Doren Shaw and the poet Frances (Wells) Shaw. Judson studied at The School of the Art Institute in Chicago on and off between 1915 and 1918 and later in Paris at the Académie de la Grande Chaumière. Her works have been exhibited in museums, at Chicago's Century of Progress Exposition (1933), and at the New York World's Fair (1939). Shaw's work can be found in the collection of the White House, in the offices of the President of the Philippines, and at the Massachusetts State House.
Sylvia Shaw Judson received much posthumous attention in the late 1990s when her Bird Girl sculpture (1938) appeared on the cover of the book "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil," by John Berendt. The sculpture also appeared in the opening scene of the movie with the same title.
Benediction is located over the doorway leading to the Adult Services Department. The relief is an image of a woman and was originally made as a prototype for a stone angel that Sylvia Shaw Judson created for the Presbyterian-St. Luke Church in Downers Grove in 1951.


text:
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:09 pm
Post subject: City of Rogers parks
My wife and I decided to hide our first cache in a park near our home in Rogers. Before doing it, I decided to contact the
Rogers Parks department
Turns out they're still a little gunshy since
the bomb scare incident
three years ago. I have been in contact with the Recreation and Facilities manager, who has said that
I am requesting that the Rogers Park Board take up a policy similar to what Ramsey County has in place that will allow it but just not yet. The park board next meets in November and then I will contact you.
I've offered to help with information in any way that I can, and figured I'd put it up for comment here. I tend to communicate
exactly the wrong idea
whenever I write more than 10 words, so here's hoping my short emails haven't convinced them to outlaw geocaching forever.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 5833
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:40 pm
Post subject:
I cannot encourage you strongly enough to pass your contact's information to the MnGCA board. The board has a lot of experience on working with park districts and can turn a poor or even decent policy into a win win for both sides.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 5833
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:50 pm
Post subject:
Also, FWIW, the Ramsey policy is horrible on multiple levels, mostly that it's a registration policy and has a HALF MILE limit between caches. It's about as out of date as they come.
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:00 pm
Post subject:
Thanks, Pear Head. I forwarded the email chain to
I'm grateful to have skilled advocates. If there's anything I can do to help out, please let me know.
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:45 am
Post subject:
The Park board has sent me some draft proposals, and they seem much better. It looks like they're allowing a .1 mile radius, and none of the other restrictions seem too onerous.
There's a meeting of the park board on November 16 at 5:15pm at the Rogers Activity Center (near the high school). I'm going to try to make that if I can get free from work in time.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 5833
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:04 pm
Post subject:
Can you post the draft here?
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:11 pm
Post subject:
Here's the draft policy (I also forwarded copies to the MnGCA board):
Geocaching is initiated by an individual hiding a cache; this can be a waterproof container with small items inside or a magnetic identification dot, then recording the location with a Global Positioning Unit (GPS). The individual then posts the GPS coordinates along with a description of the cache on the Geocaching website:
Other individuals then try to find the cache. When it is located, participants sign a log book, then take or leave a small item. They also post their find on the online logbook.
The City of Rogers wants to encourage positive use of its parks and feels that geocaching can be a good recreational activity in the parks with the following restrictions.
Geocaching Guidelines within Rogers Parks
1. Geocaching is permitted in specific parks and conservation areas of the City of Rogers with an approved permit.
2. Caches must be registered with the City of Rogers Parks and Recreation Department. Complete a Geocache Site Registration Permit Application and submit.
3. Caches must have the name of the cache on the exterior.
4. Park use hours (6 a.m. 10 p.m.) apply to those hiding or seeking a cache.
5. Caches must not be buried.
6. Caches cannot contain items that are offensive, dangerous or perishable.
7. Caches must be at least 1/10 mile or 528 feet apart.
8. Unregistered caches will be removed by the City of Rogers.
9. The City of Rogers reserves the right to remove caches that are causing undue impact on park habitat.
10. Caches are not permitted in play areas, beaches (Future), or off-leash dog use areas (Future).
11. Caches will not be permitted in the following park areas:
Rogers Community Center
Rogers Activity Center
12. Caches within the following conservation areas must be located within 25 feet of an established trail: (none listed yet)
The registration form has a recap of these rules on it, plus these fields to fill out:
Cache Name:
(should include park name)
Distance to next closest cache:
Cache Owner:
Geocache Handle:
Date placed:
They may not realize how rigorously Groundspeak enforces the .1 mile rule. We've never placed a cache, but it sounds like GC.com won't allow within .1 mile except in extremely unusual circumstances (like two caches on opposite banks of a river). Maybe that can be discussed at the meeting.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 5833
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:46 pm
Post subject:
Here's my take, short and sweet.
#1 says specific parks but the policy doesn't highlight which parks those are (other than to exclude some with #11). IMHO #1 is redundant and could be removed - the policy says the same things without it.
I still don't understand why parks want to go through a application/permit system and increase their workload...
#3 is hard to do on small and micros, nor am I sure of its value - if you stumble across a cache you're likely to know which one it is simply by looking up its coordinates. If they want to be able to identify it as a geocache then just require the word geocache (like the state forests do). I'd start though by wondering why the requirement is there in the first place.
The policy overall looks decent - I'm never fond of registration policies so I'm curious what they are looking for by requiring registration - often those needs can be met without requiring registration.
I'm also curious what a magnetic identification dot is...
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Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 4271
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:43 pm
Post subject:
Rats, I was going to bury a new geocache in Rogers and now I can't.
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Mrs. Mizzou
Past MnGCA President
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 634
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:18 pm
Post subject:
I'm available to attend the meeting on Tuesday, but am unable to get the actual Agenda off their website. Let me know if you need me.
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Past MnGCA Board
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 1976
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:14 pm
Post subject:
When we were drafting the Eden Prairie Parks policy they had been going through a lot of renovation in the parks. One of the concerns was that if someone had a cache placed and they were going to work in that area, they could contact the cache owner so they could remove it until the work was completed. I have no problem with not having a cache destroyed due to construction! The permit process leaves much to be desired although our Park guy has gotten much better lately. We had permits approved for the fall event caches in record time!
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:38 pm
Post subject:
I didn't understand the magnetic ID dot thing either; maybe they read an article about the Garmin Chirps.
The labeling and registration are probably so that the bomb squad incident doesn't happen again. The Lloyd family's cache was registered with the city but the police never checked with the Parks department before blowing it up. It'll be difficult to put a label on the blinky I was indending to place, but it's hard to imagine people getting all excited about it.
There is nothing that says registration must occur
the cache can be placed, which gives me hope it won't be a hindrance.
Mrs. Mizzou, I would be delighted to have anyone attend that can provide any sort of advocacy. My communication skills aren't great, so more experienced and eloquent voices can only help.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 5833
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:29 am
Post subject:
There is nothing that says registration must occur
the cache can be placed, which gives me hope it won't be a hindrance.
#1 says you can place a cache with an
permit. That indicates registration is required before placing the cache to me.
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 22
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:39 am
Post subject:
What ever came of the meeting? Do I need to go and get a permit to keep my one cache active? If so, where do you get the permits?
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:42 pm
Post subject:
Nothing is decided yet.
MrsMizzou did a fine presentation in front of the board, and someone from the MnGCA had already contacted them (thank you!). The board seemed receptive and grateful for the extra information, and had a lot of questions. They weren't very invested in the registration idea to begin with, and MrsMizzou helped discourage them further.
The board did not give a date for when they'll make their decision. They mentioned wanting to talk it over with the Rogers PD.
My communication with them has been very good; they return emails pretty quickly and tend to get back to me when they say they'll get back to me. If I don't hear anything in the next couple of weeks, I'll probably poke them.
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text:
The Medalytix IP portfolio is applicable to products that automatically detect signs of disease from digital retinal images.
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Medalytix was established in 2006, but the chain of events that led to our inception leads back much further.
Medalytix' iGrading M provides an automated system with proven clinical efficacy in the assessment of digital retinal image quality and detection of diabetic eye disease.


text:
Hey, your distro sucks!
I'm sitting in a room at HeliOS Solutions West/Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California, at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains, with computers running primarly Fedora. However, there are also boxes (going clockwise from where I'm sitting) running OpenSUSE, AntiX Mepis (it's old), Debian, Xubuntu and Ubuntu.
"So?" You're asking yourself, and that's a valid question. This first-paragraph revelation will make more sense at the end.
Having said this, there are few things I like more than working a booth — usually dbEntrance or Fedora — at various shows, whether it's a large one like LinuxWorld or the Southern California Linux Expo (SCaLE), or even talking up Free/Open Source Software in the minuscule venue of a LUG meeting.
Discussing in good faith the likeness and difference between distros, between desktop environments, and between FOSS programs is something that is part of the process; the process that helps uplifts all of us — those using different distros, different desktop environments and different FOSS programs — in this thing called the Free/Open Source Software community.
Helping in good faith people who ask — whether it's something in Fedora that doesn't work for a user or something in another distro that is not working — is a common and unavoidable occurrence at all show levels, and it's good to be able to get someone's problem solved, assuming you show him/her what's wrong. It's the teach-a-man-to-fish-and-feed-him-for-life concept in action.
In good faith: Those are the three key words here.
I bring up those three simple words because invariably at Linux shows like LinuxWorld and SCaLE you have some who don't follow the "in good faith" part of this equation. You know who they are (and you know who you are): These are the folks who will come to any given booth and essentially tell you what's wrong with your distro/software/hardware, without offering a shred of evidence, an inkling of cause, or the remote possibilty of a solution to their, um, "revealing discovery."
They'll continue by asking why your distro/software/hardware can't solve world hunger, put astronauts on Mars and cure cancer, among other impossibilities.
In short, their schtick is simple: Your distro/software/hardware sucks and you're pretty lucky I'm here to tell you why.
A word to those who persist in this behavior: Stop.
It may come as a shock to you that you — and you alone — are the only one impressed with your knowledge and self-importance. In reality, everyone else thinks you're a world-class, Olympic-caliber annoyance. Rather than helping, you're getting in the way of those who are trying to assist others who may not be as experienced, and certainly aren't as arrogant, as you.
So either help us with your degree of knowledge without rubbing anyone else's nose in it, or just step the hell aside.
Folks tried to spar with me at SCaLE last month, but I blew them off — different strokes for different folks. This issue, however, actually came to a head when Red Hat's Karsten Wade and I were getting dinner to take on the road on Sunday evening and I was confronted by one of the dogmatards whom I had spoken to earlier in the day. Not being in the mood for hearing an additional litany of what was wrong with Fedora, I just nodded and shrugged while being "schooled" about what was lacking in the distro. But Karsten took a more proactive approach, which was described by Karsten's response to an item in the previous blog post.
Now the reason I brought up Felton: I'm primarily a Fedora user and prefer Fedora over the rest of those mentioned in the first paragraph. However I use the other distros mentioned above. I'm also game to try others; the history of this blog bears me out — google "eight distros a week" and see what you get. Some of the machines here run GNOME, some KDE, some Xfce, and one on Fluxbox. I'm not an expert at any of them, nor am I married to any of them.
Naturally, I'm open to sharing what I do know with anyone who asks. With nearly three years under my belt on the GNU/Linux side of all things digital, I realize that I'm a relative "newb" at this. Surprisingly I'm at peace with that, despite the fact I continue to learn.
So while I'm always interested to hear the error of my ways, whatever they may be, I'm really not interested in matching wits for the sake of matching wits. You want to prove you know more than I do? If that's the biggest challenge of your day, then let me make this easy for you: You win.
Like most others, I have more important things to do.
(Fedora ambassador Larry Cafiero runs HeliOS Solutions West/Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California, and is an associate member of the Free Software Foundation.)
March 26, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Slackware or Arch.
March 27, 2009 at 8:14 am
Hey, ALL distros suck. But if we work together maybe
all distros will be the best.
This isn't a sporting event where there has to be winners
and losers. GNU Linux we all win.
March 27, 2009 at 8:39 am
Slackware, definitely… I find Arch somewhat unstable… For me, Slack works like a Swiss clock XD… But, Arch is my second choice…
March 27, 2009 at 9:14 am
Larry, this is a great post. Even if you and I as individuals prefer one distro/system over another, I suspect we both look to the best tool for the job. Part of that equation concerns what runs best and configures easiest on the given hardware, plus whether or not the applications needed in that situation are available, easy to install and of sufficient quality.
Part of it also is what we know best. If you like Fedora and know how Fedora works better than anything else, I can understand why you would favor it over other distros. I'm the same way with Debian and now OpenBSD.
Like you I think Slackware is great. I have had some hardware issues with plain Slackware, mostly related to video, that I can't seem to resolve in the xorg.conf. And on the particular machines I'm talking about I can run Ubuntu or even OpenBSD (which at this point out of necessity and sheer will is more familiar to me than most Linux distros) with no xorg.conf at all. And I'm running a few pre-i686 machines that won't boot many "modern" distros.
I also agree about Wolvix. It's my absolute favorite Slackware-derived distro. The installer and configuration utilities are among the best I've seen. Not coincidentally, I also really like the Anaconda installer from RH/Fedora. (Too bad my last few installs of Fedora and CentOS were over the network, so I didn't get to enjoy all that GUI goodness.)
As far as Wolvix goes, it looks like version 2.0.0 will be out of beta soon. When I use Wolvix, I do a traditional hard-drive install and then let Gslapt update it. It cleverly draws on both the Slackware and Wolvix repositories to keep the base as well as the add-ons up to date. The reason I like Wolvix is that it has just about every app I like in the Hunter default configuration.
I'm not a fan of KDE only because I'm just not as familiar with it as I am with GNOME, Xfce and the lighter window managers like Fluxbox and Fvwm. The three biggest Slackware offshoots — Wolvix, ZenWalk and Vector — all put their focus on Xfce. Slackware's KDE concentration tends to weaken the Xfce side. You end up needing too much KDE to manage the box. I do love the Slackware console utilities like xwmconfig and the ones that add and update packages, configure the network and the mouse.
The reason I gravitate toward Debian is that I'm very comfortable with its installer and package management. And I'm pretty much happy with GNOME.
But just like with Slack, I've had too many video problems with Lenny over the past year and for that reason run Ubuntu on a couple of laptops that used to run Debian.
As I touched on above, I've been using OpenBSD on my main laptop rather intensively for the past three months. It's been quite a learning experience, and while it tends to run great, I do miss having up-to-date Flash. I did manage to get Java support in Firefox. That took DAYS to get working. And if I really needed to edit video, I'd have to return to Linux.
(Sorry about this long comment … I'm almost done).
I've got to tell you, the Fedora booth was one of the best parts of the SCALE show. Everyone was so friendly, enthusiastic and helpful. I'd like to run Fedora soon. It could be my next workhorse distro. Those repositories look really good, and they give me a "comfort level" that I don't have with CentOS.
What I'd like to see in Fedora is a "dist-upgrade" feature like Debian/Ubuntu. I'm not saying I wouldn't just do a full reinstall every release (or every other …), but I'd like the option to upgrade the current system with a utility.
March 27, 2009 at 9:17 am
I've been evolving into an uncomfortable reality-set in the past 6 months. Almost everyone I've encountered that HAS heard of GNU/Linux expresses that knowedge as "knowing about Ubuntu".
At first I would launch into a practiced spiel about different distros. It became clear that about 90 % of them would begin having their eyes glaze over by the third sentence.
It dawned on me that we had pushed their perception of reality enough by telling them they had a choice in how they used their computers. Too much choice however, as in sub-choices left most in a slobbering stupor.
So ok…ubuntu it is for now…just for now.
Stage two will commence when the eyes regain focus and you understand the term "distro". Please take into account that most of these folks still don't understand the right-click vs left-click dynamic.
March 27, 2009 at 10:38 am
Loved the article. It is so true, there are so many people out there that do what you said, and it is also true that the best way to get rid of them is to agree with them and move on.
The problem as a distro maintainer, is that they then expect you to fix everything that they've listed, even if it isn't within your power, or the scope of the distro. If your distro cures cancer, they will want it to cure their acne too.
March 27, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Your distro doesnt suck, your distro looks every other one which uses the same desktop.
I have Mandriva 2009 on our desktop, Kubuntu 8.10 on the Dell Mini, Gentoo on my work laptop and also running Mint KDE virtually and running KDE 4.2 on all of them and give me a break, they all look the same!
The difference between desktops is the big thing, not distros.
Liking one distro more is a question of which one has crashed less dramatically on you and people choose distros based on perception as well.
Ubuntu is the 'user friendly distro' now but how is it different than what Mandriva has done for years?
And PCLinuxOS and Linux Mint both are even better than their legendary forefathers of usability.
People identify themselves in their choices once they get the hang of it, its more of statement about where you belong in the community.
I love XCFE on my old machines and think KDE is the best to get people to switch to Gnu-Linux. I will use whatever is the best distro at a certain time and am ready to changed at a moments notice.
The past two years my distro of choice for friends and family who wanted to try Leenux was PCLinuxOS2007 w.KDE3.5.1. I have now moved on to Mandriva 2009 w/ KDE4.2 which is the version that I think is now raedy for my mom (its on her 5 year old laptop and she loves it)
But once that Linux Mint KDE reaches maturity, it could very well be the one.
Until I find the next one.
Distros dont matter as much as people claim.
March 27, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Well … the article is totally reasonable. There is nothing I can say about that.
Save for one thing perhaps. And that is that some distributions really do suck and should be wiped on sight, never again to be released.
Because they haven't been tested. Or their installation isn't automatic and isn't documented. Or they include mismatched library versions. Or whatever else can go wrong with a distribution that was created by one man and his dog for little reason other than to have one's "own" distribution. Now "rolling your own"distribution is fine with me. But have the decency not to inflict it on mankind in general without proper testing, will ya? And testing, me boy, tends to take a lot more time than any fly-by-night distributioneer has available.
March 28, 2009 at 1:44 am
Thanks for your article. Fun to read, and I totally agree. I've been 100% GNU/Linux since 2001, starting out with Slackware 7.1, then using Debian, Libranet and CentOS… but then, you name a distro, I probably at least gave it a spin. Right now I'm running a small IT business using a mix of CentOS and Fedora, on both servers and desktops, and I'm quite happy with it.
I'd say the best distro is the distro the admin's most comfortable with. It's not the distro, it's what you make out of it. In my everyday life and work, I've seen folks do astonishing things on Debian, SUSE, Gentoo, FreeBSD, whatever.
March 28, 2009 at 6:56 am
I downloaded Fedora 10 and installed a minimum amount of packages. I removed their Java; installed Sun Java; installed Open Office from openoffice.org; added rpmfusion repositories; used some recommendations from http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f10.html [Personal Fedora 10 Installation Guide]. What do I call my distro?
March 27, 2009 at 6:25 pm
September 12, 2010 at 5:38 am


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