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Asian American (See related page: Ethnic Diversity.)
Apna Ghar – provides comprehensive multi-lingual, multi-cultural services, including shelter to South Asian women and their seeking lives free from violence, Chicago, IL.
Asian Pacific
Institute on Gender-Based Violence – a national resource center on gender-based violence against Asians, Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders. We analyze critical issues, provide technical assistance and training, conduct research, and inform public policy, San Francisco, CA.
Asian Family Support Services of Austin – (formerly SAHELI) is a nonprofit organization that provides assistance to Asian and other immigrant families dealing with domestic violence, sexual assault and trafficking, Austin, TX. See trainings available on Asian culture.
Asian Task Force Against Domestic Violence – the mission is to eliminate family violence and to strengthen Asian families and communities, Boston, MA.
Asian Women United of Minnesota – a community-based, nonprofit organization committed to ending violence against Asian women and children, empowering Asian women and girls, and building stronger and safer communities. Through our various programs we work to increase awareness, provide services, and break down the cultural barriers that bar and stereo-type Asian women and girls, Saint Paul, MN.
Asian Women's Shelter – a comprehensive shelter program that provides safety, food, shelter, advocacy, and other resources to assist women in rebuilding violence-free lives for themselves and their children. Our services are culturally appropriate and language accessible. We have an on-call pool of multilingual advocates to respond to the wide range of Asian languages spoken in the Bay area, and we work closely with other agencies in the community to provide a comprehensive network of resources for Asian battered women and their children, San Francisco, CA.
Center for the Pacific
Asian Family – was founded to help address domestic violence and sexual assault in the Asian and Pacific Islander communities and can provide services in more than 30 Asian and Pacific Islander languages. Our mission is to build healthy and safe communities by addressing the root cases and the consequences of family violence and violence against women, Los Angeles, CA.
Daya – supports South Asian women, their children and families who are trying to break the cycle of domestic and sexual violence and reclaim their lives. Daya empowers these women by offering counseling and advocacy, promoting community awareness, and by advocating at the policy level. Daya's approach fosters individual freedom and respect leading to healthy families, Houston, TX.
Korean American Family Service Center (English and Korean) – a leading, nonprofit organization that supports and empowers adults, youth and children to lead safe and healthy lives based on dignity, compassion and mutual respect. We are committed to preventing and ending domestic violence and relationship abuse, and creating a violence-free society. Our counseling, education and advocacy programs for individuals and families in the New York Tri-State area are provided in a culturally and linguistically appropriate setting, Flushing, NY.
Korean American Women In Need (English, Korean and Chinese) – the mission is to is to eradicate all forms of violence against women, including domestic violence and sexual assault, by empowering Asian American survivors and engaging the community through culturally competent services, community education and outreach, and advocacy. KAN-WIN is the only agency in the Midwest that operates a 24-hour hotline in Korean and English, Chicago, IL.
Maitri – a free, confidential, nonprofit organization based in the San Francisco Bay Area, that helps South Asian women facing domestic violence, emotional abuse or family conflict, Sunnyvale, CA.
Manavi – a non-profit organization for women who trace their cultural heritage to Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka. Manavi's goal is to increase awareness of women's rights in society and encourage social change to end all violence against them. Its approach is nonjudgmental, nonreligious, and nonsectarian. Manavi is committed to the empowerment of South Asian women and thereby, dedicates its major efforts to facilitating women's quest for self-reliance and autonomy everywhere, New Brunswick, NJ.
National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum – the mission is to build an APA women's movement among those who believe in advancing social justice, and addressing the concerns and increasing the rights of APA women and girls, Washington, DC.
National Organization of Asian Pacific Islander Ending Sexual Violence – provides technical assistance and support to local / community-based programs and governmental organizations in enhancing their services to victims of sexual violence from the Asian and Pacific Islander communities nationally and in the U.S. territories, Des Moines, IA.
New York Asian Women's Center – helps battered Asian women overcome violence and govern their own lives, free of abuse. The Center also works to raise public awareness about domestic violence, advocate for the rights of battered women, and create an agenda for social change, New York, NY.
Sakhi for South Asian Women – a non-profit and community-based anti-domestic violence organization. Sakhi, meaning "woman friend" in several South Asian languages, works with women of South Asian origin including women from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, as well as the South Asian Diaspora, New York, NY.
South Asian Women's NETwork – a forum for and about women from Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri


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- To be used with pistol, shotgun, air gun and rifle
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subset: commoncrawl


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It took the East Baton Rouge Parish School Board 45 minutes Wednesday before it unanimously named Warren Drake as the lone finalist for superintendent, meaning he is very likely the next leader of the second-largest school district in Louisiana.
Drake is being asked to return a week from now, on March 26 at 6 p.m., to interview before the board. The board plans to meet once more, on April 2, to make its official selection.
The Advocate left a message with Drake on Wednesday night seeking comment. If he lands the job, Drake would replace Bernard Taylor, whose three-year contract expires June 30.
A former East Baton Rouge Parish principal who later spent a decade as superintendent of the top-rated Zachary school system, Drake's selection as a finalist Wednesday was not a surprise. Indeed, his potential candidacy has been the subject of speculation for months.
"Shocked, totally shocked. Totally amazing," Noel Hammatt, who served on the School Board from 1995 to 2010, told the board after Drake's name was announced. "Predicted a few months ago."
Then Hammatt immediately added another bit of speculation about who Drake might name as his No. 2 person: "I just wonder if Michael Tipton is going to be invited."
The mention of the outgoing executive director of Teach for America for South Louisiana surprised Board President David Tatman.
"I've never heard his name mentioned," Tatman said afterward, referring to Tipton.
The Advocate also left a message with Tipton on Wednesday night seeking comment.
If naming Drake was no surprise, it was a bit surprising no other finalists were named.
Tatman said board members reviewed the qualifications of all 10 applicants when they met behind closed doors Wednesday. While a couple of other applicants were qualified in Tatman's view and earned positive comment, Drake clearly stood out.
"He understands the local dynamics, the local leadership and the politics," Tatman said. "I can tell you he is well respected in the community."
Tatman added that he doesn't know Drake personally and has met him only once before.
After the meeting, board member Vereta Lee said she considered nominating C. Michael Robinson Jr., an instructional director in Prince George's County, Maryland, which has more than 120,000 students, as a finalist. But she said she decided not to because she didn't see any support from her fellow board members.
Lee said she hopes Drake proves to be a uniter and said she plans to ask him next week what he will do to make that happen.
"I've gotten calls from people saying he can bring the system together," Lee said.
If Drake is ultimately chosen, he will be the first white East Baton Rouge Parish school superintendent since Clayton Wilcox, who left in 2004; Wilcox is part Hispanic. Drake also would be the first person who has been an employee of the school system to land the top job since Charlotte Placide, who served as superintendent from 2004 to 2009. Placide has submitted a letter of recommendation on Drake's behalf.
Drake, 63, left Zachary in 2012 to become an administrator with the Louisiana Department of Education. He spent most of his career, though, with East Baton Rouge Parish, including serving as Tara High School principal from 1996 to 2002, and he knows many current and former school leaders.
"What you're saying is that Warren Drake is going to be our new superintendent?" asked a confused Pearl Porter, a parent activist in north Baton Rouge.
"It's not a foregone conclusion, by the process," board member Tarvald Smith responded.
Smith said Drake still has to prove himself in his March 26 board interview, scheduled to take place next door to the School Board Office, in the Instructional Resource Center, 1022 S. Foster Drive.
"(Drake) may come before this board and stink up the joint," Smith said. "I doubt it, but he could."
Smith also noted that the School Board has named a lone finalist before and that person didn't get the job.
He was referring to the January 2012 naming of Rockdale County, Georgia, Superintendent Samuel King as the lone finalist for superintendent, out of a field of six semifinalists. Two weeks later, King unexpectedly withdrew amid speculation he was forced out of contention. A month later, after a second round of searching, the board settled on Taylor, who had run the Grand Rapids, Michigan, school system for the previous five years.
Follow Charles Lussier on Twitter, @Charles_Lussier.


text:
hi Sherman, I am sorry I missed your kind invite Hope not to miss it next time!
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mateuszstaniszew said
Straszna posucha w tym miesiacu
what does this mean in English?
this place turning to graveyard :((
Here too
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also tried to tweet @envato_help no replies yet!!


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Department History
Saint Louis University School of Medicine established the Department of Orthopaedic Surgery in 1924. Phillip Hoffman, M.D. became the first department chairman and served in that position until 1938. J. Archer O'Reilly, M.D. assumed the chairmanship in 1938 and held that position until 1947, when Franklin Albrect, M.D. became chairman. He held the position until 1950 when Robert M. O'Brien, M.D.became chairman and held that position for the next eighteen years. D. Elliott O'Reilly, M.D. served as chairman from 1968 through 1981. Robert E. Burdge, M.D. was the chairman from 1981 to 2003. In March 2003, Berton R. Moed, M.D. became the most recent chairman of the Department of Orthopaedic Surgery. Under Dr. Moed's direction, the department has reexpanded to a full-time faculty of eighteen orthopaedic surgeons and three PhD research faculty.
|Past Chairmen
|Phillip Hoffman, M.D.
1924 - 1938
|J. Archer O'Reilly, M.D.
1938 - 1947
|Franklin Albrecht, M.D.
1947 - 1950
|Robert M. O'Brien, M.D.
1950 - 1968
|D. Elliott O'Reilly, M.D.
|Robert E. Burdge, M.D.
1981 - 2003
Previous page: Orthopedic Rounds- Google Calendar
Next page: Resident Applicant Information


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Name: Alba Norn
Breed slot: Norn-D
Colour: Orange
Tip: These norns are known to love to copy other norns. If you ever get the chance to watch them with another breed, you'll see that from time to time, they'll be trying to do everything the other norn does!
Game: Creatures Village
Did you know? There is also a converted version of the Alba Norns for Creatures 2.
|This stub could use more information.


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The Guttendorp Commission was a tribunal of judges that held hearings between 1944 and 1946 to determine the loyalty of various French officials to the Sebastienite government, deriving its name from its chairman, Franz Guttendorp. While the Commission's stated goal was initially to punish war criminals within the Edmondian regime, by the last seven months of its existence it was essentially a forum for the new Emperor to publicly admonish and humiliate his detractors and known opponents in government, and many "enemies of the state," even during the early stages of the Commission, were typically given show trials before being executed.
Despite the somewhat contentious memory of the Guttendorp Trials, it is accredited with aggressively pursuing a number of crimes perpetrated by the Edmondian regime. One of the first defendants tried and punished under French law was Charles De Gaulle, the head of the Churat, who was indicted and convicted on forty-four counts of murder, war crimes, conspiracy and torture, and executed two days later. Other high-profile defendants tried and convicted of war crimes were Phillippe Nife, Paul Goesthe, Francois Descard, Joseph Dorfmann, Karl von Hesse, Jean-Louis Baptiste (no relation to Francois Baptiste) and Roger Velanes.


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Myths And Facts
Dispelling misinformation is as important as receiving truthful information, especially when it comes to giving your pet the best care. These common facts may help inform your choices.Read more
Probiotics are live microorganisms used to protect your pet's gastrointestinal tract from harmful bacteria.Read more
Health Nutrition (6)
Epilepsy In Dogs: Canine Idiopathic Epilepsy
Idiopathic epilepsy is one of the most common causes of recurrent seizures in dogs.READ MORE
What is Canine Cognitive Dysfunction Syndrome (CDS)?
Canine cognitive disorder, also known as cognitive dysfunction, is a decline in the brain's ability to functionREAD MORE
Seizures in Dogs, A Look Into The Canine Brain
A seizure can be a sign of a neurological problem in a dog.READ MORE
Managing Arthritis in Dogs
Did you know that one in five dogs over the age of one is affected by osteoarthritis?READ MORE
Omega-3 Fatty Acids: An Excellent Anti-inflammatory
How the right ingredients can nutritionally manage osteoarthritis.
Food Allergy Signs and Symptoms
If your dog has itching skin and GI issues, take a closer look at their diet.READ MORE


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Due to illness, Miley Cyrus moves Omaha concert to October 13 and Kansas City gig to October 17.
Miley Cyrus was forced to postpone two concerts from her on-going "Wonder World Tour" because she is sick. The two delayed gigs are Omaha and Kansas City which were supposed to take place on October 2 and 3 respectively.
Now, the Omaha concert is re-scheduled to October 13 and the one held in Kansas City is moved to date 17 in the same month. "All paperless tickets for both shows will be honored on the rescheduled dates and all other show information remains the same," it was announced on Miley's official website.
Miley's last performance before she decided to take a break from touring was conducted on September 29 in Salt Lake City, Utah. During "7 Things" set, she walked out of the stage and was announced of getting sick. After around 15 minutes, she re-appeared and completed the show.
After the Tuesday concert was wrapped, Miley tweeted, "My throat is yelling at me to shut up. Strep is the worst thing ever. Thank you, Salt Lake, for being so amazing and supportive. My body is done with me working it so hard. Off to have a very nice peaceful sleep."
One day later, Miley's fellow Disney star Mitchel Musso even revealed about her emergency room visit. "She just texted me. We've been texting back and forth. She was a little sick this morning, she went to the ER and stuff so I'm gonna go see her right after I'm done filming," he said.
Miley herself opened up about being taken care of by her little sister Noah Lindsey Cyrus, but did not mention anything about going to the hospital.


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Popol Vuh
- Overview
- Biography
- Songs
- Browse by Format
- Browse by Genres
- Similar Artists
|Electronic & Ambient Pop / Rock
|krautrock ambient experimental progressive rock psychedelic german
|1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s
|Fan Page Wikipedia Wikipedia
Experimental German band formed in 1969 by Florian Fricke (23 February 1944, Lake Constance, Baden-Württemberg, Germany, d. 29 December 2001), Frank Fiedler (keyboards) and Holger Trulzsch (percussion), and named after the holy book of the South American Mayan Indians. Led by chief songwriter Fricke the trio made their debut the following year with Affenstunde. Both this album and the follow-up In Den Gärten Pharaos focused heavily on Frickes Moog playing and created a trance-like atmosphere perfectly poised between cosmic rock experimentation and mystical ambience. In Den Gärten Pharaos was later championed by UK rock musician and author Julian Cope as one of the great meditational holy works, and its later influence on electronic and new age music cannot be overstated.
By 1972s Hosianna Mantra Fricke had switched to acoustic piano and begun exploring a more meditative approach. This album also...
- MatchPopol Vuh
- 80%Cluster
- 64%Faust
- 55%Can
- 51%Klaus Schulze
- 47%Brainticket
- 47%Michael Rother
- 39%Robbie Basho
- 39%Third Ear Band
- 38%Embryo
- 37%Comus


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Note: Another drabble of sorts akin to Yeesha's in "Reflections"; this time from Atrus's point of view. Constructive criticism is more than welcome!
Disclaimer: As always, I own none of these characters or backdrops.
I cannot do this alone.
I sit, head in hands, listening to the angered cries of my only daughter as she wails out her injustices, and though my head murmurs that this is the right thing to do, my heart throbs painfully. Though I try to dredge up Catherine's advice in dealing with this situation, or memories of tantrums, all my mind can focus on is the cries of my little girl. Is it possible to see clearly now? No, my mind laughs at me. No, you can't think logically. Best to get it over with.
With a deep breath that is meant to steady both body and mind, I rise from my chair and cross the room in three strides to stand before my daughter. She sits in the middle of the study floor, pounding her fists and heels against the hardwood, her face creased in what she thinks to be agony. Her mother was gone for the afternoon to Tay, leaving me to look after our child…and suddenly, the afternoon seems as though it will stretch forever.
"You cannot go to Tay." I mean for my voice to be steady yet gentle, but it comes out shaken and unsure of itself.
Yeesha, her round face streaked with tears and eyes narrowed angrily, clambers to her feet and stomps the ground. "Why?! I want to go!"
Once, I could have handled her cries. When she was just a baby, hardly larger than any of my books and certainly lighter, I knew that she meant no harm. She could not feed herself, nor could she survive without the patient hands of Catherine and I, and such cries were there only to grab our attention for her needs. Now, however…
Now, her cries sting like nails into my heart, and it is all that I can do to face this little child instead of retreating back to my books. How can Catherine cope with this? With disciplining her? Each word now is not meant for her needs, but for her wants. She means for them to sting, even if she is only five years old and incapable of considering the magnitude of the pain of others. Yeesha knows nothing of how her words and actions affect me so, though she does know that they must hurt in some form or another. Had they not hurt, she would not have been hurling them at me.
"Yeesha, are you going to speak like a big girl?"
She shakes her head stubbornly, her face growing (if possible) redder by the moment.
"I will not speak to you until you can calm down."
Her large, dark eyes dart around the room (too late, I remember the book lying open on my desk), but she makes no move to do anything. Instead, Yeesha clenches her hands into fists at her sides so that her skirt bunches up in her fingers. Her lips wobble.
"I want Mama!" She tells me firmly, imitating my tone of voice. Powerful in a way, behind the anger that is bubbling, because here is a power that she knows nothing of. I feel shaken at these words, that my daughter has chosen sides or, more likely, that she wants to just hurt me with the words. Possibly both, though I cannot decipher what is moving through her mind.
Deep in my heart, where the thoughts that I have no wish to visit live, I know that this will be the diverging path. Once I stood on the same pathway with Achenar and Sirrus, two little boys who I believed to be completely innocent and too young to take on the burdens of the idea of humanity. I had ignored or indulged their petulant, selfish cries, and the cries in turn became cruel and unconcerned with other living things. Was this where it had started? Had they turned out so because I had never disciplined them or gently called to light their flaws, even as little ones?
I cannot blame Catherine, or Anna, for this had been my responsibility. They had, after all, done their best to steer the boys down the correct path, but my presence had been a step backwards to every step forward taken. The boys had seen, to my shame, my overestimation of them. Of how I thought indulgently of them as the children of gods, too pure to be tempted. Though I had once seen my father mistake himself for a god, so too did I mistake my children for such beings. I believed them impossible to be corrupted, being part of my own well-meaning flesh, and I had blinded myself to their doings until it had been too late.
I could not do the same to Yeesha.
"Yeesha. Stop."
And to my surprise, Yeesha stops. She stops, one last angry howl trailing off abruptly at the hard word, and for a long moment we stare at one another. My daughter sniffs long and hard, clearly unsure of this firm man who had somehow replaced her father.
"Mama is in Tay." Yeesha nods curtly, once, her mouth still wobbling. "There is an emergency, and she could not take you with her." It was obviously something that the child hadn't considered, because her eyebrows wrinkle in a thoughtful manner. I don't give her the chance to mull it over for much longer. "If you scream more, you will sit in the corner by yourself." Her eyes flicker to the lonely corner of the study, where a single little stepstool was the only thing present. "Do you understand me?"
She gulps. "Yes, Papa." Her streaming eyes are no longer on the corner, but on my own. I want to squirm and fold now, and take her in my arms and promise her sweets and pretty dresses, but there is no turning back even at the end.
"It is quiet time now. Go to Mama's garden and sit on the bench."
Yeesha nods again and, trembling faintly, turns and moves out of the study. The moment she is gone I slump down into the nearest chair, trembling if possible even more than my daughter. I study my hands blankly, searching for answers, wondering what Anna or Catherine would say. Soon I will take Yeesha on my lap again, bouncing her up and down like a little doll and soothing her worries, but in the back of my mind she can no longer be perfect.
Somehow, though, the face of perfection is no longer what I want for Yeesha, and taking comfort in this thought, I take up pen and paper again and begin to write.


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text:
An editor with the liberal media website Vox was suspended Friday for a series of tweets encouraging protesters to "start a riot" at Donald Trump rallies; almost immediately after the candidate's supporters were attacked outside a San Jose rally the night before.
"We welcome a variety of viewpoints, but we do not condone writing that could put others in danger," the site's founder, Ezra Klein, said in a statement announcing the suspension of journalist and first person section editor Emmett Rensin.
Rensin tweeted that it's "never a shame to storm the barricades set up around a fascist."He then posted the following:


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Henry the guinea pig is one of the 12 Strays of Christmas at the P.E.I. Humane Society that is in need of a home.
©Jossie Ehler/Special to The Guardian
The fifth animal to be profiled in the 2015 edition of the 12 Strays of Christmas is Henry, a two-month-old brown, black and white American guinea pig.
He loves napping in his pigloo and munching on Timothy hay.
Guinea pigs are sweet little animals that although shy, are intensely curious and highly social.
Henry needs a loving home that will give him lots of tender loving care.
RELATED: Forest the cat latest 12 Strays of Christmas pet needing a home
Holiday tip #5: A lot of noise and strange people in the house can be distressing to your pet.
Ensure they have a place to stay that is free from the hustle and bustle of company.
It's a good idea to have your pet in this location during mealtimes to keep away from spills and ingesting table food.
Children should always be supervised around pets. For more information about the adoptable animals at the shelter, visit www.peihumanesociety.com or call 902-892-1190, ext 21.
The 12 Strays of Christmas, a special feature produced by the P.E.I. Humane Society and The Guardian, will appear periodically during the holiday season.


text:
Assisted Living facilities in and around Zip Code 30157
1 | 2 >>
30157 Assisted Living Facilities
Bethel Gardens
Bethel Gardens offers the best of both worlds: the same comfort as if you were living on your own, and the comfort of knowing a helping hand is there when you need it....
Powder Springs, GA 30127
Assisted Living
Ashbrook Village
Assisted Living – Ashbrook Village meets the needs of a growing population of senior adults who may require some assistance, but do not need a skilled nursing facility. Our values are determined...
Villa Rica, GA 30180
Assisted Living, Independent Living
Grace Assisted Living
Grace Assisted Living has been providing an affordable living alternative, offering dignity and maximum independence, for seniors in the community since 1992. Grace is committed to providing a...
Douglasville, GA 30134
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Wellington Place of Kennesaw
Wellington Place of Kennesaw provides our residents with lifestyles, housing, care and services in comfortable surroundings combined with exceptional amenities, programs, and care. Through...
Kennesaw, GA 30144
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Sweetwater Springs
Welcome to Sweetwater Springs in Lithia Springs, Georgia. Wonderful opportunities abound for the senior lifestyle of your choice at Sweetwater Springs.Personal Care at Sweetwater Springs is designed...
Lithia Springs, GA 30122
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Gaines Park
Gaines Park is convenient to Town Center Mall and Kennestone Hospital. The one story building design enhances the comfortable, home-like environment. Our 24-hour staff is available to provide the...
Kennesaw, GA 30152
Assisted Living
Day Break Assisted Living
Whether top-of-the-line services, friendly staff, great location, or an affordable price is your highest priority, Day Break Assisted Living should be at the top of your list of senior living...
Kennesaw, GA 30144
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Atherton Place
Atherton Place offers a wide range of living options and all the amenities you could want. With Senior Living, you can choose an efficiency, one-bedroom, or two-bedroom apartment. Our expanded...
Marietta, GA 30060
Assisted Living, Independent Living, Memory Care
Marietta Living Centre
Marietta Living Centre is an Assisted Living setting where mature adults will have all needed personal care assistance provided, and will always feel like they are home. The Centre is built around...
Marietta, GA 30060
Assisted Living
Azalea Manor
Azalea Manor was selected MARIETTA's BUSINESS of the YEAR by the Cobb Chamber of Commerce. We were established in 1983, are locally owned and operated, and have three generations of elderly care...
Marietta, GA 30060
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Woodland Ridge
The Woodland Ridge Difference At Woodland Ridge you will find assisted living with a difference where residents find a supportive environment, comfortable home-like surroundings, engaging activities...
Smyrna, GA 30080
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Savannah Grand of Towne Lake
Savannah Grand of Towne Lake, offering luxurious retirement assisted living in Woodstock, Georgia, is an elegant yet affordable assisted living community. The ever charming residential area known as...
Woodstock, GA 30189
Assisted Living
Bickford of Marietta
We began our quest into senior living because of our love for our beloved mother, Mary Bickford, whose needs became too great for us to manage. As we researched senior living options, we were...
Marietta, GA 30068
Assisted Living, , Memory Care
Emeritus at Woodstock Estates
We offer a home like setting and cheerful smiles from our professional staff who greet you every day. Our caring staff offers the assistance you need while respecting your independence. Our peaceful...
Woodstock, GA 30188
Assisted Living, Memory Care
Emeritus at Woodstock
We are proud to be a part of the Woodstock community. This area was chosen for its quiet and relaxed atmosphere and for its close proximity to churches, shopping and medical facilities.Emeritus at...
Woodstock, GA 30188
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WIBU, a long time ago but now I worry about it (absent father thread)(54 Posts)
To cut a
verylong story short--er--, there are bits of this that I am not proud of and don't need anyone to make me feel any more guilty than I already do. When I was young I had an affair with a married man, I knew he was married and make no excuses for myself at all. It didn't last long and we seperated. I then found out that I was pregnant (I am against abortion for ME, so it wasn't an option). I told him and he was . My parents threw me out and I was housed in temporary accommodation. (Not complaining, trying to give a picture). I then found out that ExP (easiest way to describe him) wife was also expecting a baby. He showed very little interest in my pregnancy. When my DS was born he came into the hospital to visit. He brought him a cuddly rabbit and a second hand car seat. He visited several times that week. When we were discharged (after a week), my DS was referred for a kidney scan at 15 do. My ExP rang to see how the scan had gone, obviously no results yet. We talked about "access" and "contact" and ExP said (something along the lines of) "I'll drop in when I can". I replied that that wasn't good enough, I wanted him to commit to seeing my DS on a regular basis, I didn't want any money off him, I could arrange for a neutral person to liase with the contact (as I guessed that ExP's wife wouldn't be happy for us to spend time together - justifiably so), I was happy for him to see DS as often as he liked but it had to be a regular commitment, several times a week, once a week/ fortnight/ month or even 2 months but if he couldn't commit to at least once every 2 months then I felt it was better if he walked away as I didn't my DS growing up not knowing where he was. We never heard from him again. My question is not about my wisdom stupidity in having the affair, but WIBU to insist that he made a commitment to seeing my DS on a regular basis? I feel like I was wrong, as I have deprived my son of his father, although my DH has been a "real father" to him all his life and adopted him as soon as he could.
Less importantly, I gave the cuddly toy rabbit to a charity (with a huge pile of other cuddly toys) and have felt guilty about it ever since, as it was the only gift he ever gave my DS.
Yes they can 2rebecca.
When the lone parent mother is inadequate the child tends to get placed elsewhere often permanently.
And society is a lot harsher on bad mothers than it is on bad fathers.
That's partly my point, babies can't lose inadequate mothers but easily lose touch with inadequate fathers unless they are living with the mothers.
Got to go to work now, thank you for all your comments. Will catch up either later or tomorrow
2rebecca, and what about the 18 year old mother who still needs time to grow up? Do you think social services would take kindly to her dumping the child but reappearing 2 years later to 'play mum'?
Shocking double standards!
OP, he sounds like a piece of scum, and I bet your son has better self esteem than the child he had with his wife. You made a god decision 20 years ago. Do not feel guilty.
SmaltzingMatilda last i heard he was still married, they had 3 children at that point, but it was quite a while ago.
I think you did the right thing. Your ds has grown up happy and secure with two parents who love him. One of them happens not to be his biological Dad, but so what? Your dh has been his actual father, the one who has cared for him and supported him and tended to him.
Your ds's biological Dad has done fuck all. Provided some sperm and a crappy rabbit from a hospital shop. If he'd wanted to stay in touch, he could have done, but he chose to bugger off. His also denied his other child the opportunity of a relationship with your ds, his or her half-sibling. Waste of space.
Far better for your ds to have no contact with him than to be confused and hurt by someone who turns up occasionally on his terms when he feels like it, then buggers off.
I know how much a crappy, uninterested and unreliable father can damage someone btw - my own Father, particularly with regard to my sister (and me, but I had counselling and he was a bit more interested in me - dunno why, maybe because I'm the eldest). And I know how great a non-bio Dad who brings a child up can be, and how little it matters that their biological father isn't at all involved - my cousins.
He wasn't an 18 yr old, 2rebecca, he was 32.
What is a rp and a nrp?
That's not down to the rp at all. Its the responsibility of the one who needs to grow up.
The trouble is that someone who is a bit of a tosser age 18 might be more sensible a few years down the line and a good loving father. I don't think rps should hassle men, but I think encouraging them to keep in touch may be in the child's best interests, especially in the long term when the man matures a bit.
Given that his wife knew. It would have been easier for him to make a routine arrangement so you just made it easy for him to do what he wanted to do.
I never get why rp's hassle and try to force nrp's to be involved if they need to be hassled then they are not good enough.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Snorbs I don't know and never will now. I'm quite glad that most people think I was being reasonable, but tbh I'm still 100% convinced. I think I will always feel like this about it, because unless
by some miracle he turns up and says "oh yes, you did the right thing, I would never have bothered to come by and he would have been screwed up by that" I'll never really know
Let's say you did accept his offer of him dropping in when he could. How long do you think he would have kept that up for? How long do you think his wife would've accepted him doing that, particularly when they had their own child?
You gave him the excuse he wanted to bugger off. This way he could justify it to himself as it being your fault for being all controlling and evil. But if it wasn't that then sooner or later he would have come up with something else to allow him to walk away and blame you.
You did the right thing. I sort of did the same thing with my DD's bio dad, I asked for a loose commitment in terms of time and he came up with every excuse under the sun (and he didn't even have a partner or other DC as an excuse). Then he dropped off the face of the earth because he didn't have a job for a year and 'didn't feel good enough' to be in contact. When he did get himself a job
and the CSA caught up with him he crawled out of the woodwork wanting pictures almost 3 years later.
Rightly or wrongly, I told him to shove it - the whole time he bleated on about what HE wanted and how HE'D had a tough time, never once asking about my lovely DD. He promptly crawled back in to his hole and I hope that's where he will stay as he's a great big waste of space and my DH is ten times the father to her than he ever was or would have been.
Strangely enough, bio dad did brought DD a rabbit at birth too, I haven't thrown it out because my DS has taken a liking to it but I'd have no qualms about charity shopping it, I've kept crappy cards and emails he sent for her to see, if she wants to, and a few pics. I hope that'll be enough...
you did the right thing. he couldn't even commit to once every two months and walked away at the first opportunity. he never deserved the right to know your ds who sounds happy and well rounded.
you should be proud of yourself its ex that should feel guilty.
I've just had a similar situation with my ds nearly 4 and ex who's not his dad but been there since he was a baby. wanted to keep seeing him after we split but once he got a new gf didn't even ask about him for 2months. i gave him the chance to come see ds but hes got other things he'd rather be doing. his words.
well no actually knowing my ds is a privilege not something im gonna force you to do and im not having my ds feeling like he's not worth the effort. i hope I've done the right thing and i hope he feels guilty.
I don't know Justforlaughs, but I have a gut feeling that if I had dug my heels in with my ex tyhen he would have seen less of our kids & all i know is that they like seeing him & he's their dad no matter what. I think you can learn from your parents mistakes,, I certainly have!
I think it makes no difference what you did or said to him as I think he would have walked away anyway. My mum asked nothing of my father and he still chose to have nothing to do with me. My only wish is that she had kept his contact details as I went through a stage of wanting to find him and had no idea how. However, your son is not bothered so everyone's a winner.
RedHelenB do you think it is better for a child to have a father who turns up once in a blue moon, that can't be relied on; or one who doesn't have any interest at all? I didn't, and tbh, still don't think that asking him to make a commitment to once every 2 months was a lot to ask. It really never occurred to me that he would just never ring back. (Just to be clear, I wasn't interested in carrying on a relationship with him, just that I thought he would want to see something of his son)
KateSpade periodically (every few years) I bring it up, as in a "we haven't spoken about it for a while, but if you have any questions, would like to know about then I am quite willing to tell you vein" but he always says that he hasn't given it any thought since I last asked him, that his Dad is his Dad, and that he isn't interested. I'm not going to force the issue, even if I think that he should know more. (my family all know who his father is and where he can be found, and my DS knows this, just in case anything happens to me and he changes his mind)
I think YWBU, sorry. You knew it would be difficult for him to see your son but you sort of excused him from doing so by insisting on regular visits. Still, water under the bridge now but I don't think you would have posted this if you thought you were right in what you did.
The rabbit wouldn't have held any happy associations...it's not a nice memento or anything. Just evidence of a man who didn't become a Father in the real sense.
My thought is I'd rather he wasn't here at all than being a half-assed parent. That's what I think with my daughter, anyway.
Does he ask about his bio father op? I'd be interested to know what you say to him?
Thank You thechildrensparkle that made me cry, he is a great young man and I am very proud of him!
Be proud that you've done what you thought was best and you've provided him with stable loving relationships
DSis is still single, so DN never had a father figure at all. But he had a mum (and extended family) who loved him, gave him everything he needed and is a happy, secure and confident young man. You may have regrets, it doesn't mean your son does, or should!
My thought is I'd rather he wasn't here at all than being a half-assed
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What Babysitters Don't like
Gotta say these things always annoyed me when I babysat. I try to always let the sitter know if I'll be late.
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FWIW, my old-German is not up to scratch, here is what I make of it.
23. Mai 1940
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Ausrüstung 8 Mg.
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Open to debate, of course.
EDIT: typo corrected, thank you Antoni


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VETERANS FUNDING -- (House of Representatives - November 06, 2007)
(Mr. CARTER asked and was given permission to address the House for 1 minute and to revise and extend his remarks.)
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Western powers should leave Afghanistan
Western powers have been occupying Afghanistan since the invasion in 2001 and the escalating human, financial and political costs of the continued occupation far exceed any benefits, either to the West or to the Afghan people themselves. The time has come for the West to admit they cannot continue, as opposed to compounding the situation by committing more resources to a lost cause. Withdrawal would amount to a better outcome than the inevitable failure of persistence. We are in a hole and it is time to stop digging.
You can also add to the debate by leaving a comment at the end of the page.
A withdrawal does not equate failure or abandonment
The proposition side would choose to present a withdrawal as the vacation of Western powers from Afghanistan, in terms of NATO military forces, but the sustained presence of NATO agents who would be on hand to provide military advice on keeping peace. The aim would be to eventually hand over overall responsibility for security to Afghan forces, but the withdrawal would be staggered over 3 years on the condition that the civilian death toll average was reduced by the end of the year. Forces would first be reduced and withdrawn from more peaceful regions, leaving the densely populated centres until last. Effectually, the Afghan forces would have access to the experience of NATO forces, but would be the ones calling the shots so to speak.
When it comes to a country as unstable and ill equipped with efficiency as Afghanistan ,even the thought of withdrawing the only support through which it can grow back which is the help provided by the western powers, states only one bitter imagination which should not become the reality and that is Abandonment.Going by the propositions proposal, it seems after transferring the entire power to afghan forces, which in reality is not even in the condition of sustaining itself and so only god knows how it will take care of the entire country and the teeming millions living in it, they will apparently wait for the rate of deaths of the citizens to elevate in order to fulfill their "condition".Also,what the side proposition proposes is that the NATO forces be eventually removed and that the power of governing be exclusively returned to the Afghans. The period of three years that they suggest seem to be a little too ambitious. By giving a three year time frame what they wish to suggest is that a country which in 5-6 years hasn't restored themselves, will all of a sudden be self sufficient in 3 years.
After the preposterous logic given by the side proposition,the opposition would like to give a more practical and sane mode of operation. It is suggested that the forces need to be there for a longer period of time till the state is absolutely capable of functioning well on its own, which will be determined by the United Nations. What we are suggesting is that the united nations will conduct a full survey and publish a report mentioning the developments and state of Afghanistan once in every 2 years and only after the united nations is convinced that the country is self sufficient to protect and provide for its citizens will the NATO forces leave the State. Also, The World Bank and the United Nations should provide funds and aid in the country so as to slowly make them self sufficient. Efforts should be made by the western powers to maintain the financial assistance at around present levels for the next five years, focusing on reconstruction and reducing the proportion available for recurring expenses. Also, they should continue to emphasize human rights and good governance by making a long-term financial commitment to the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC);
An unsustainable commitment of resources
The financial cost of the occupation is hugely detrimental to Western national interests and also impossible to support in cost/benefit terms. We've seen that the huge military investment represented by the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan has failed in its primary purpose of safeguarding the lives of Western citizens and instead put the lives of thousands of our soldiers at risk. But this military investment is even harder to understand from an opportunity cost point of view. We have no confidence in specific estimates of these financial costs, such is their disparity, but all analysts agree that they run into hundreds of billions of dollars. Not only has this gargantuan investment failed to deliver its primary military objective therefore, it has deprived numerous far less oblique initiatives to improve our security from receiving the funding they need. Take the example of National Identity Cards in the UK; deemed to be a vital tool in the fight against terrorism, their introduction was shelved primarily on the grounds of costs estimated at £10 billion. But by any estimates this is a fraction of the investment expended thus far to conduct a war with no discernible benefit to our security. If we widen the argument to include investment in aid, the expenditure becomes even harder to justify. Again, figures are unreliable, but it is estimated that US aid investment will be approaching $10billion this year alone [[Congressional Research Service]], over 300 USD for every man woman and child, roughly equivalent to the average annual income. What do we have to show for this largesse? Has the quality of life improved for the average Afghan citizen? Has life expectancy increased, or educational standards risen? Maybe we can see improvements to the infrastructure? The answer is a resounding no. And again, what about the opportunity cost? Are the proponents of the occupation really asserting that this money could not be better spent on more deserving causes at home or abroad? Just take the example of the aftermath of hurricane Katrina that left thousands of US citizens homeless, many of them still waiting to be re-housed. The opposition side may want to point out that the already intended withdrawal from Iraq will mean resources can be merely redirected to Afghanistan, and there will be no net increase in spending. However such a commitment cannot coincide with the expected burdens of debt on the federal budget after the global financial crisis, or the planned healthcare reform in the USA. Remove the security dimension, in other words and this expenditure becomes utterly impossible to justify.
While the side opposition agrees that there is no sanity in continuing a "war" when the cost benefit analysis is negative however we feel that the State of Afghanistan is not yet ready to function all by itself. At this point we feel it is important to point out that the "war" that the proposition is referring is not why the troops are deployed there, the NATO forces are deployed for security reasons and to ensure that the citizens are free from the shackles of the "Taliban".
The forces are a symbol of the state aid and protection which is being advanced to Afghanistan by the NATO countries.
As far as the propositions argument according to which "unnecessary" high expenditure has been incurred due to the military investment in Afghanistan without any acceptable output, the opposition would like to say that the primary motto of every country is protection of its citizens and if that motto cannot be achieved if those very citizens fall in the hands of terror.According to the side proposition, the expenses which were apparently "wasted" on this state could have been used for some other more useful purposes like the betterment of its own citizens.we the opposition would like to remind them that providing the citizens with all the luxuries or even necessities would be of no use if those very citizens would live under the threat of another 11th September to happen.
Moving on to the several questions which have been put forward by them, we would like to correct their misconception regarding the state of "no-improvement" in Afghanistan. Our largesse will allow us to bring to their notice that their has been considerable improvement in almost all the sectors of the state.
The economy of Afghanistan has improved since 2002 due to the investments in U.S dollars and the improvements in their agricultural sector. However it still remains as one of the poorest countries living on foreign aid. According to the IMF reports Afghanistan's economy has grown by 20% year end of March 2004, due to international aid and end of droughts. An estimated $4.4 billion US dollars of aid entered the nation from 2002 to 2004, about equal to its GDP. A GDP of US $4 billion in fiscal year 2003 was recalculated by the IMF to $6.5 billion, after adding proceeds from opium products.Further more, the nations banking system has improved with 13 new banks, which were established in the year of 2003.
The national power of a nation is determined by the state of the people in the country. The state of the people is affected by the laws in force in the country. It was during the presence of the NATO forces during the so called "war" that the constitution of Afghanistan was adopted and made the law of the land. It was under the presence of the NATO forces that the interim government was set up with President Hamid Karzai as their interim president.It was during the time of the forces presence that the general elections were held this year and had it not been for the forces to ensure security the elections couldn't have been conducted in peace with the "resisting" elements of the state obstructing it.
We've reached a stalemate with current military strategy
NATO allies have been reluctant to support the USA in providing more soldiers to accompany the 17,000 troops Washington plans to send to Afghanistan. As any hope of success would rely on having a high number of troops, it is unlikely increasing our commitment to Afghanistan will be a viable option. During the 1980s even Russia had far more troops yet was unable to succeed on military strength. If the West fail to acknowledge the true size a further commitment to Afghanistan would be, the undertaking would not only equate signing a blank cheque, but would be a preordained failure for the insufficient number of troops we do send. Not only has the mountainous rural territory proved a significant obstacle for Western forces, but in recent years much of the south has fallen out of Western control. Up until now, the strategy for dealing with specifically adverse areas of conflict has been to increase the troops posted to that area, but as we can see from the following example, the proportion of troops added to greater control in the area is minimal. Proof of this comes from the fact that for example until 2006, [["From insurgency to insurrection", The Economist, August 2009]] the southern Helmand province had only 300 American combat troops and as it grew as a hub for the Taliban's resistance more troops were sent into the region. However three years down the line and the area is still uncontrollable, the only difference being there are currently 20,000 British and American troops stationed there. The extent of this inefficiency seems enough to justify a withdrawal. The impact of this is augmented in light of the fact we are being given a run for our money by guerilla fighters despite the Western military being equipped with the latest technology. Surely this tells us the wrong thing to do would be to continue the war effort? Casualties among Western forces now add up to 1311 [[Source: Nato icasualties.org]]. Most damningly of all, the rate at which these losses are being sustained is accelerating. More Nato and US troops died in the first eight months of 2009 than in the whole of 2008 [[Source as above]]. At this rate it will not be long before more US citizens lose their lives "preventing a repetition of the attack on 9/11" than died in the original attack itself. This logic is even more dubious in the case of the UK, where, to prevent atrocities such as took place on 7/7 claiming 52 lives, 204 lives have been lost as we write, a Pyrrhic victory indeed. Furthermore, casualties among Afghan forces and civilians exceed these appalling figures by several orders of magnitude. What it boils down to is diverting from the status quo by either deciding to reduce or amplify our military commitment in Afghanistan, and we can safely deduce that after nearly a decade of occupation, if we have not yet been able to reach a point of stability, there will only be mounting causalities and perpetuated instability both politically and socially if we continue to occupy Afghanistan.
The war in Afghanistan is not "fundamental to the defence of our people"
The primary justification for the invasion of Afghanistan in Oct 2001 was US national security, and, by implication, the security of the West generally, and in this aim it has palpably failed.
The rationale went as follows: under Taliban rule Afghanistan was a safe haven for Al Qaeda; a breeding ground for international terrorism from which Osama Bin Laden and his lieutenants could plan, train for and launch further attacks with impunity. It was therefore deemed essential to Western national security that this capability was destroyed and Bin Laden brought to justice. But it is a curious solution to the problem of safeguarding the lives of Western citizens, which entails airlifting tens of thousands of those citizens to place them directly in the firing line of the enemy, particularly in a terrain infamously hostile to occupying forces as has already been mentioned. Even if we were allow the occupation has played a part in forestalling further attacks on Western soil – a huge assumption when one considers the attacks on London and Madrid took place after the invasion – in plain numerical terms the occupation of Afghanistan has emphatically failed to save Western lives and Osama Bin Laden is still at large. The "war of necessity" attitude assumes that denying Al Qaeda a major territorial stronghold is the only thing currently preventing them from launching an attack on the West on a similar scale to 9/11, when we can understand that if there were to be an attack, it could very much occur without the Al Qaeda control of Afghanistan. There are even countries available such as Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea or Uzbekistan [["A war of necessity?", The Economist, August 2009]] where Al Qaeda could set up camp if that is in fact what they required, while we continue wasting time and effort in Afghanistan. This is even ignoring the case that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are overtly present in Pakistan.
We as the opposition feel strongly that it isn't time yet to let go! However much the proposition would contend that what we suggest is to full fill our egos and is to deny defeat, it is rather dramatic of them to suggest the following. As countries of one world it is our collective responsibility to ensure protection and development of nations and its citizens. When a country is sick and is unable to improve on its own we see no harm in lending that helping hand. Our rationale is that we will only let go the hand once the nation can stand on its own. What we feel and will prove is that Afghanistan as much as we would like it, isn't ready to left all by itself. It will be an experiment which the world will regret.
Contrary to what the proposition thinks that all the responsibility of Afghanistan can be slowly handed over to the afghan forces, the situation in reality suggests otherwise.
One such instances is that of the new laws being passed in the state (country is being referred to as state). Does the proposition really think that a state which allows refusal of food to a wife if she refuses intercourse, are in a position to govern the whole country all by themselves yet?
Also the Afgan forces aren't prepared enough to restrict the forces of Taliban from entering and re-establishing their hold. When a country like Pakistan which has been governing its own nation for more than 60 years can't contain the Taliban to one territory without the help of the U.S army, how can a country as unstable as a tight rope walker manage to stand up for itself against the Taliban and it is imperative to point out that once the Taliban re-establishes itself there is no questioning the degree of terror they will unleash.
When the whole world is on ventilators due to the attack of the Recession, we can not desert a poor country like Afghanistan to battle it on its own.While the proposition will contend that the forces is all that they propose to move and not the investments, the presence of the force is a symbol of the presences of the nations ready to bail them out. Once the forces are moved the nations will have no mean of keeping a check on the functioning of the state and there is no wondering what the state of its citizens will be and what will be its implication on the world.
therefor. the supposed "war" in afghanistan is not only fundamental to the defence of the people of the western countries or other nations but also to the helpless citizens of that state.
There is floundering support for the cause
The pitiful turnout in the current election in Afghanistan, and plummeting approval ratings in the US and UK demonstrate the political folly of continuing with this misadventure.
ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) commander General Stanley McChrsytal has recently said Afghanistan is encumbered with a "society that's got to be repaired, and I don't know if we can fix it. But we can't ignore it...there is a tremendous desire to sort it out". We agree with the General up to a point. Yes, the society needs to be repaired and yes, there is a will within the society to see a change for the better, and yes, Western forces probably won't be able to fix the situation. However, whereas General McChrystal would construe a withdrawal as "ignoring" the situation, we would argue that a withdrawal would probably be a better option if we wanted to promote social progress in Afghanistan. "Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes … known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.… No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. " [[James Madison, Political Observations, 1795]]
ISAF has become a symbol of the futility of the West in the minds of the Afghan people, as the trade-off for having a continual foreign presence for 'security' does not seem worth it when there are civilians dieing in worrying numbers due to car bombs and suicide attacks daily. Much of the way the Taliban gain support is by using the West as a figure of resentment, therefore, surely if we remove this factor we remove much of the Taliban's ammo, and the country can stop fixating on blaming the West for the current situation and focus on moving forward. Afghanistan has unfortunately had a previous case of occupation with Russia, where at the time deteriorating infrastructure was easily appointed to a foreign power, and a bitter resentment for the Russian power was the underlying force in driving Russia out of Afghanistan. With air raids becoming a more frequently used military tactic due to reduced ground ability, civilian causalities are a frequent consequence and cases where wedding parties [["Losing Afghanistan", The Economist, August 2009]] have been rained down on with shells have not done much to improve the Western image. Major-General Zahir Azimi himself has said that "Where international forces are fighting, people think it is incumbent on them to resist the occupiers and infidels" and so removing the foreign force and handing over to Afghan security forces may hopefully culminate in a social confidence that is necessary to bring Afghanistan out of chaos.
A perfect example of the mismatch between political ambition and reality is provided by polling results released in the past few days. The Babaji area, for example, was an insurgent stronghold expressly targeted by UK troops with a view to liberating the population of some 80,000 to vote. Thirty seven British troops were killed and 150 injured in the process and 13 polling stations duly set up. The result? On average eleven votes were cast per station. Or fewer in aggregate than the number of troops injured and killed, as the headline in today's Daily Telegraph grimly proclaims. This should surely come as no surprise. For exhaustively well-documented reasons of history, culture, ethnicity and religion, Afghanistan is uniquely ill-suited to adopting western-style democracy. So, not only has the invading force failed to capture the hearts and minds of the local population, support for their cause is actually declining at home and abroad. While this is understandable in the West, given daily pictures of troops returning home in body bags, it is harder to understand on the ground. It should be remembered that there was little initial resistance to the invasion of Afghanistan among the general population such was the abhorrence of the Taliban's repressive and regressive regime. In many respects therefore, our intervention has been a miracle of mismanagement, turning a largely supportive population increasingly against us. What makes our continuing presence so hard to understand in this light is the fact that this is a uniquely timely moment politically for us to withdraw. Without wishing to minimise the political cost of pulling our troops out, this is not Barack Obama's or Gordon Brown's war. Unlike Blair and Bush it should be possible for the new UK and US administrations to present the decision to leave domestically as a pragmatic reaction to changing circumstances, while to the Muslim world the withdrawal could be styled as a qualified concession to international law and sovereignty. The longer we remain, however, the more surely Obama and Brown, too become tainted by association with the invasion and the harder it will be for them to leave. The withdrawal would work to prove to countries in the Middle-East such as Iran, that Obama is serious about 'unclenching fists', and ultimately it will be the break down of East-West tensions that will end the 'War on Terror'.
As for the alternative, suffice to say that all current estimates of the time needed to complete the Afghan project made by its advocates talk in terms of decades, and, less volubly, trillions of dollars. Yes it will hurt us to leave, but better now than never.
The entire argument presented by the proposition reflects on how the attempts made by the NATO forces to restore normalcy have not been much successful. What they are forgetting is that, the very fact that the concepts like "election process" etc which were taken towards democritisation of this state were actually able to be implemented show that a change is taking place and this time for the betterment.
I t is jus the starting. if for the first time the turnout for voting was 20% then next time it will increase n so will the hope of afghanistan to restore its normal state.
Failing the seconday objectives
In addition to failing to achieve its primary objective, the occupation has failed to achieve a number of secondary objectives, particularly minimising the production and trafficking of heroin.
For all their corrupt and barbaric practices, the Taliban were by general agreement successful at reducing production of opium. Some estimates suggest that opium production fell by as much as 90%. [[See e.g. unodc.org". http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/speech_2001-10-12_1.html.%5D%5D
Since the invasion, however, production has risen to the point that Afghanistan has been restored to its former inglorious position as the world's leading producer of heroin. [[Source: abcnews.go.com http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79842&page=1.%5D%5D
One of the effects of the dependence of Afghan farmers on this pernicious trade is that it makes the cost of diminishing incentives prohibitively expensive. Either Western powers must commit unfeasible sums to compensation, or, they must face the consequences of depriving the economy of its main source of income.
As for securing a sufficiently stable regime to enable, as has been suggested, the construction of a pipeline to assist the security of oil supplies to the West, this now looks like more of a pipe dream than ever.
There are flaws in the opposition's proposed withdrawal strategy
Firstly, to clarify our model for the opposition. Recently during the occupation in Afghanistan we have seen annual deaths increasing, therefore, we would deem a decrease in this measure as the starting gun for beginning a withdrawal plan. The opposition look to contest the 3 year time frame, using the fact that Western occupation of Afghanistan has far exceeded 3 years yet there has been no substantial approach to self-sufficiency in that short time. We on the proposition think this point strengthens our case. We see the situation as one that is bound to stagnate. Senator Gates of the USA talks about Afghanistan "10 or 20, 30 years in the future in terms of a completely democratic, corruption-free, fully economically developed ally". Are we meant to believe that up until that hardly distinguishable point in the future we will be bearing the burden of the occupation of Afghanistan? (Which a member of the US administration has already mused could be the next three decades.) Within the 3 year time frame for withdrawal, we do not expect the country to be self-sufficient. The essence of our argument is that Afghanistan will not be able to reach that self-sufficient stage whilst we are occupying it. The alternative presented by the opposition is neither realistic nor relevant. To refute it briefly, the UN has had a history for indecisive action and bureaucracy, and bringing the UN in as the ultimate authority on the occupation cannot be justified when the initial action was not sanctioned by the UN.
The fine line between support and interference
The current occupation is providing support to the embryonic democracy, not assuming a role of temporary governance! The opposition side seems to be in favour of prolonged occupation in order to take control over legislation in this politically chaotic country, citing the case of "refusal of food to a wife if she refuses intercourse". Despite what sharp critics of the invasion will pronounce, the West are not there to govern Afghanistan but to help clear the country of rebel forces so that it could have a fully functioning independent democracy. To interfere with their legislation would not merely be to breach national sovereignty to a crippling degree (a regression in any progress made to installing a self-sufficient democratic system) but would be totally contrary to the aim of setting up a democracy, as the point is that the people of Afghanistan should be governed by the laws they want, and not laws which have been approved by the West or any other country.
Yet on the other hand, whilst presenting Afghanistan as a country in which the notion of democracy is on par with the impossible, the opposition side wish us to take the recent elections as the pleasant fruition of our efforts in Afghanistan. Well, there is plenty of evidence, whether sprawled across newspaper headlines or present in the current plight of the Afghan citizens, that the recent elections were not a pleasant experience. We on the proposition think that the case of the recent elections works in our favour as it proves that years of occupation have amounted to a 'democratic election' where there have already been 2207 complaints registered, [["Complaints of Afghan elections pour in", Channel 4, 28th August 2008]] defining this election as barely credible by any standard, let alone the democratic standards of a war torn country. The opposition side try to use the fact that there was an election held at all, as a sign that the situation in Afghanistan is improving and hold faith that larger turnouts to elections will coincide with this. However, the previous elections in 2004 saw not only a larger turnout, but had greater credibility, so if anything we have seen a regression in the situation.
Aid and investment are not mutually exclusive to a military withdrawal
Western forces would still be able to provide Afghanistan with aid, which it does so in substantial amounts, and withdraw its forces from the country. There is nothing to stop the World Bank supporting Afghanistan as it is a separate organisation to NATO, and a NATO vacation of the Afghan area only means removing military presence, not removal of political support, or any other form of support.The opposition side use the 'world recession' as a further reason why it would be morally heinous to 'abandon' Afghanistan. This view fails to register that perhaps continuing the West's identity in the country as one willing to provide aid and investment, without the presence of military hostility could work in favour of the West. The West may even then be able to focus on refining its aid strategy in Afghanistan because currently improvements to infrastructure seem to be futile when the lives of citizens are disrupted by conflict, and the ongoing conflict obviously makes the distribution of aid problematic. Withdrawal would see military conflict fade away leaving room for the aid workers and peacekeepers to follow successfully.
Proposition Summary
The proposition side have depicted the situation in Afghanistan which leaves us with a particular choice. The demonstration of the shortage of resources means that continued involvement in Afghanistan, as the opposition advocate, must involve either a reduction in the commitment and the demands we place upon the existing resources, or an actual increase in those resources. Proposition have proven the latter to be unfeasible, with discussion about the opportunity cost of the continued diversion of domestic resources. Therefore, we expect discussion to centre on the nature of the commitment decrease. However, side opposition seem to advocate a third way: an INCREASE in the demands we place on our limited resources.
In response to proposition demonstration that the war we are now fighting cannot be meaningfully called one of "necessity" in terms of preservation of Western security, they have had to justify continued involvement by extending the term 'necessity' to include a host of other objectives. Side opposition would have us fight a war whose obligations include legislating ("Does the proposition really think that a state which allows refusal of food to a wife if she refuses intercourse, are in a position to govern the whole country all by themselves yet?") and whose main war aim is "lending a helping hand". However, as we have already shown, we can still provide aid in the form of military guidance and financial aid itself, whilst still exercising a military withdrawal.
But even if we were to ignore, with the opposition, all the costs associated with committing the resources and lives that we are to Afghanistan, there still remains the second line of proposition argument, which has been that the Western involvement in Afghanistan has limited possible success. We have proven that the flagging support, the failing military strategy, the fact that a state of war is not conducive to the restoration of liberty and the existence of Taliban influence in states outside Afghanistan, all indicate that the operation itself will not bring about success. The opposition side have not convincingly argued that this success is possible. Instead, they have chosen to advocate continued involvement with reference to the "collective responsibility to ensure protection and development of nations." Aside from the fact that there was no analysis to support the existence of such a responsibility, we would say that the existence of such a responsibility, binding enough to commit us to this highly costly and inefficient operation, would in turn have to commit us to a huge number of other global operations. Particularly as we suspect the opposition of including legislative development in their objectives. If we were to follow their logic through, the result would be a much greater one than simply biannual UN reports. The fact that they did not acknowledge this suggests to us that they, like us, have little actual faith in this "collective responsibility." The real flaw however, in justifying the occupation in this way, is that it would qualify piecemeal commitment. If the reasons for involvement are as it were moral ones, rather than consequentialist ones, then any involvement or 'lending of a helping hand' becomes justified, even if it does not bring about success. We have an obligation to TRY to work towards moral obligations - that is part of their nature. In matters of war, however, we do not have an obligation to embark on unsuccessful or unfeasible missions. Indeed, the expectation of success is a condition for a war to be considered a just one. In war, only success can qualify an invasion. This is why our proof that the mission as it is cannot be successful is so important: these are now WASTED resources, and our opportunity cost points here become particularly salient. The reason opposition are unfazed by the shortage of resources is because their reasons for fighting are absolute - they do not require success to have fulfilled their "responsibility."
So we see that the proposition case really amounts to two lines of argument. One has been the task of demonstrating the shortage of resources available to carry out opposition's operation. The second has been to show that this operation would be unsuccessful, even if the resources necessary to carry it out existed. This is how the substantive points we have offered work to demonstrate that WESTERN POWERS SHOULD LEAVE AFGHANISTAN.
We contest the above debate as a definition challenge on the basis of truism as the proposition has defined what the present status quo is but as a responsible opposition we still would like to give a summary.
The proposition needs to get their facts right. They ought to be aware that Afghanistan is one of the world's poorest nations which is battling a civil war for the past 30 years and where five million depend on charity for their basic nutritional needs.The very idea of proposing a withdrawal of the NATO forces from this land is completely absurd and illogical.The proposition seems heavily inclined to the presence of the Afghan forces and they propose that that the task of restoring peace and security should be given to them.How can we think of taking such a drastic action as the country as of now only has 160,000 domestic security officers out of which nearly 70% are ill equipped,inadequately trained and are also illiterate.Recently the Obama administration has mulled the expansion of the U.S.military soldiers and troops. The senators Joseph Lieberm, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, and Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, recently wrote to the White House that any further postponement of a decision to support a surge in Afghan forces will hamper U.S. efforts to quell an insurgency in its eighth year.The primary task of the western forces in the form of NATO and U.S. military troops is not only to restore the nation to normalcy but also to make it self sufficient.The International Security Assistance Force's (ISAF) establishment of provincial reconstruction teams (PRT) across the country is of key importance in this regard. The 26 PRTs, 12 of them under US leadership, construct things like roads, water canals, schools, clinics and police stations, and create projects in fields like security, education, health and management to provide technical and logistical support for development and security. An example is the Afghanistan Technical and Vocational Institute the US opened in Kabul, which is training students to meet the need for qualified workers. PRTs have completed 126 projects, with 268 still ongoing. Another 284 proposed projects are waiting in line.
Afghanistan is also plagued with the presence of Taliban which has destructed mankind in the region and has acted ruthlessly by mercilessly killing people. Hence withdrawing the support of the western troops from the region would amount to utter nonsense at this critical juncture.The proposition needs to be made aware that it is only owing to the western forces in the form of a U.S. drone attack that the chief of the Taliban Baitullah Mehsud was killed.\
The proposition claims within they do not expect Afghanistan to be self sufficient if the Western forces are deployed there. Let me tell them self sufficiency is not build on their loose expectations rather it is a continuous process which can be realized and accomplished if the people are shown their worth. Isolating Afghanistan by withdrawing the forces would be totally preposterous and would prove fatal not only for them but for the entire mankind as it would give the Taliban to breed freely and destruct the mankind.
NATO and U.S. are no fools that they are extending their support to Afghanistan even in these recession tattered times. The US has already spent $33.37 billion on rebuilding the country and now the U.S. is planning to send nearly double the existing troops of 37,000.The cost of this doesn't come easy and if such an amount is spent, it is done with a purpose guided by rationality and which is in the larger interest.The proposition has just come up with a loose statement that" Withdrawal would see military conflict fade away leaving room for the aid workers and peacekeepers to follow successfully". We wonder on what grounds is the rationality of the proposition guided as they all they just come up with this statement without an alternative.
American President Barack Obama during his election campaign himself said that said Afghanistan would be his number-one foreign policy and extending military support is of utmost importance to the welfare of a country as disintegrated and cursed as Afghanistan in which barbaric attacks in galore.
What do you think?
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Please note the new directions to help avoid construction as Meridian Street between 116th and 136th is currently closed.
North on Michigan Road (US 421), east on Willow Road (131st Street), north on Towne Road, east on 136th Street, Westmont is on your left.
North on Meridian Street, West on 116th (Construction starts right after this light), North on Towne Road, East on 136th Street, Westmont is on your left.
For additional information about road closures in this area visit this site.
If using a GPS please use 13762 Pinto Drive Carmel, IN 46032 as the destination address
My Notes:
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