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Thursday, February 21, 2008
Huge Day Of NASCAR On SPEED
NASCAR fans can have a blast on Friday with SPEED starting at 12:30PM Eastern Time.
SPEED kicks it off with Nationwide Series practice at 12:30PM, then moves directly into Sprint Cup practice at 3PM. All of this action is from the California Speedway in Fontana.
At 4:30PM, it is time for Craftsman Truck Series qualifying. The race itself is at 3PM Eastern Time Saturday on Fox.
The Go or Go Home show is at 6PM, and will contain a preview of the new NASCAR qualifying for the cars outside of the top 35 in owner points. This is the first race where this new system will be used.
Sprint Cup qualifying is next at 6:30PM and will be followed directly by Nationwide Series practice once again. Don't forget that the Saturday Nationwide race is at 7Pm Eastern on ESPN2.
Trackside will come along for the full hour at 10PM, and close-out the day. That is a lot of NASCAR TV.
This page will serve to host your comments about all the Friday programs on SPEED.
To add your comment, just click on the COMMENTS button below and follow the easy instructions. Thanks again for stopping by The Daly Planet.
49 comments:
- SonicAD said...
- This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
- February 21, 2008 at 10:26 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
Sonic, that change work OK?
- February 21, 2008 at 10:35 PM
- Anonymous said...
Rain is in the forecast for the California Speedway area tomorrow (and Sat night and Sun). Hopefully it will come in and go out quickly especially with all the practices and qualifying scheduled to air.
SPEED should probably prepare for some just-in-case rain delay chat, though.
- February 22, 2008 at 12:19 AM
- stricklinfan82 said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- February 22, 2008 at 1:02 AM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Here is what I would like to see from Speed in today's qualifying session:
Plain and simple, I want to see the entire qualifying run of every go-or-go home car. I want to see ALL of them take the green flag, take the white flag, and take the checkered flag, as well as every second of their run in-between. Please don't just "assume" that a lesser-financed team has no chance to pull off a great lap and skip them over for a commercial. Seeing a guy like Burney Lamar or John Andretti make the race would be the feel-good moment of the whole session so please don't deprive the fans of that.
If Speed uses the TiVo style format then it should be a no-brainer to get this accomplished. If they don't then they need to front-load the commercials while the lower-tiered top 35 teams are on the track so we can see the go-or-go-homers qualify without interruption once they hit the track at the end of the session.
Also, when it comes to the go-or-go home situation I want Speed to know that there is no such thing as giving us too much information. When every go-or-go homer starts their run I want to know who is on the bubble to be bumped out of the field and who is on the bubble to get bumped into the field. In fact I would love it if the lap tracker would just track where the current qualifier is on pace to stack up among the go-or-go-homers. If they use the traditional 43 car tracker sure we could see, for example, that Michael Waltrip is on pace to end up 33rd overall, but that information would be completely useless to me. I would just respond to that graphic by asking myself: "What does that mean? Where would that put him among the go-or-go-homers? Would that lap lock him in? Would that not be good enough to make the race? Would that put him on the bubble, and if so how many cars does he still need to outrun to make the race?" Overall position should be a mere post-script to the most important information I need to know - will this run be good enough to make the field?
This is going to be a big day for Speed Channel guys taking on the task of covering their first Cup qualifying session with these new qualifying order rules in place. I really hope they step up their game and set the benchmark for the TNT and ESPN production crews to shoot for once they take over these qualifying sessions in the summer. Please don't take a lazy approach to covering these qualifying sessions Speed. The go-or-go home drama is very important and could actually make for extremely compelling television if you cover it correctly. So please act like it and be on top of your game today!
- February 22, 2008 at 1:16 AM
- Anonymous said...
JD, this is just another moment for SPEED to shine and looking forward to another great day in NASCAR coverage from SPEED.
Kingston, NY
- February 22, 2008 at 10:48 AM
- Diane said...
The rain should let up very soon here in SoCal, I would hate to see the Cup qualifying have to fall back on last year's points. Don't know how long it will take them to dry the track or what changes they have to make to today's schedule to make sure that qualies happen.
Since restrictor plate racing is its own animal, this should be the first race to really judge Toyota and if Dodge is a flash in the pan.
Since Robby's off road race shop is in the area, I expect him to be covered as the major "local" story, what with the Dakar being canceled and with his current Nascar penalties.
- February 22, 2008 at 12:03 PM
- Anonymous said...
When I turned on the TV for a few minutes at 12:30 p.m. Eastern there were dryers out on the track.
When I turned on the TV at 1:50 p.m. Eastern, there were again dryers out on the track and Michael Waltrip was in front of his hauler demonstrating Darrell Waltrip's crazy golf swing for Dr Dick bergerren. (It was funny.) Typical rain delay talk with Hammond and McReynolds, and Dr. Berggeren is interviewing different drivers.
I don't know if the Nationwide cars ever got on the track. I assume the Cup guys will get to practice, but Truck qualifying is in two hours, something is going to have to give.
Not good sign for the go or go homers since it's top 35 from last year who would get in. At least California Speedway has lights.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:04 PM
- Anonymous said...
Truck qualifying is in two and a half hours, I meant.
They haven't said when the cars will be back on track.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:06 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
With both the Truck Series and Nationwide Series running on the same track on the same day on competing TV networks it would be VERY interesting to see how NASCAR would handle things if the weather is this bad tomorrow.
I thought all along that it was a terrible decision to schedule a Truck / Nationwide doubleheader on Saturday and this could really be a scheduling nightmare if rain creeps in, especially if the truck race has already started when it starts to rain. Would ESPN force NASCAR to call off the rest of the truck race so the broadcast of their Nationwide race could start on time or would NASCAR do everything in their power to finish the truck race before they would consider starting the Nationwide race, no matter how much it would mess up ESPN's programming lineup? I'm sure a lot of truck teams would be awfully upset if they had to race on Monday or if their race was cut short sometime after the halfway point just because of TV politics.
In my opinion if they get the truck race started on Saturday afternoon they should finish the scheduled distance regardless of how late they would be forced to start the Nationwide race. Unfortunately I have a feeling that the Nationwide race would get treated as the "main event" and the TV contracts would force NASCAR to start the Nationwide race on time, regardless of how that would mess up the Truck race.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:08 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Not good sign for the go or go homers since it's top 35 from last year who would get in. At least California Speedway has lights.
Yeah if Cup qualifying is rained out the field will be set by the top 35 in owner's points from last year, then past champions (Busch, Jarrett, Elliott), then the current season's owner's points among the go-or-go-homers. So essentially the 43 car field for Sunday would be the same 43 guys that ran at Daytona last week, except for the fact that Bill Elliott is in the race and Kenny Wallace's #87 team isn't here.
If anything has to be cancelled today I hope Truck Series qualifying is first on the list, because there is a short field there and no one would have to go home. A lot of full-time Cup teams are going to have to go home so I hope Cup qualifying is treated as a higher priority.
Like you said though California has lights and Speed Channel should be able to stay here all night to cover the on-track action. Let's just hope Speed doesn't duplicate what they did at Charlotte last fall and pre-empt live on-track action for Trackside. While I love that show, it should be last on the priority list if anything is happening live on the track - Cup, Nationwide, or Truck Series.
If Speed dares cut off live on-track action, ESPECIALLY Cup qualifying, for a talk show again I will be irate.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:28 PM
- Anonymous said...
I don't think the doubleheader is that bad of an idea. They had to do something to try and help the attendance situation, and by creating the doubleheader they saw it as a way to increase the value of the day's offering IMO. Plus, I can't recall rain impacting this race weekend in CA that much over the years. But, from the weather reports I've seen they should be OK tomorrow.
In addition, moving the truck race to Saturday instead of Friday night is probably a good idea -- not many would want to battle SoCal traffic on Friday at that hour to get to the race and it showed.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:30 PM
- Anonymous said...
SPEED just had Rutledge conduct a serious interview, believe it or not. He interviewed Tony Eury Jr.
Interesting. A new role for him or are they just short handed in case this goes late into the night? He did OK, except he used the word "stuff" as in "how does stuff rank?" in Eury's satisfaction with the team so far.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:32 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Oops, I think it was Texas last fall where Speed cut off live Busch Series qualifying to air Trackside. I think Charlotte was the race where we lost Cup Happy Hour and Busch Qualifying for the rain-delayed Truck race in Mansfield (which I didn't have a problem with by the way).
To me dumping live practice or qualifying for some form of NASCAR race is acceptable. However, dumping live coverage for a NASCAR talk show is completely unacceptable so I'm really hoping this doesn't become a duplication of last fall's Texas debacle.
Please tape Trackside and air it at midnight or 1 AM after the delayed on-track action is finished.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:35 PM
- Anonymous said...
Coverage has been good; they have interviewed a lot of people who don't normally get interviewed. Johhny Sauter, Pierre Kutel(spelling?)the nationwide crew chief for Carl Edwards, etc.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:36 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Bob Dillner's not correct that there are new qualifying rules for rain-outs in the first 5 races of the season. As I posted earlier, it's not the 42 in owner's points as he stated. I slightly mis-spoke earlier so I want to correct that:
It's the top 35 from 2007, then race winners from 2007-2008 (Kurt Busch), then past champions (Jarett, Elliott), then 2008 owner's points (Vickers, Reutimann, Waltrip, Andretti, Nemechek). They used this same procedure at Bristol in April of 2006, so while the #10 team might be a little bit confused there is nothing new about these rules.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:49 PM
- ZuDfunck said...
So I am not the only one sweating the rain based on fellow commenter's on this point.
It was interesting to see why Kenny Wallace talks too much, I had the sound down but it looked like Red Bull.
Watch NASCAR long enough you learn the intricacies of everyone involved. Part of the charm of the sport, for me anyway.
Lets hope the weather breaks soon.
- February 22, 2008 at 2:53 PM
- Diane said...
If there is a time crunch, I think the earlier poster's suggestion of skipping Truck qual and staging the Cup qual is a great solution. Lets hope that Nascar is as clever as the readers of the Daly Planet!
Rain situation looks okay for the races tomorrow.
But how many hours will Speed vamp before going to some pre-recorded show?
- February 22, 2008 at 2:59 PM
- Brett Baldeck said...
Is SPEED not allowed to mention that California Speedway is now Auto Club Speedway? I haven't heard them mention it. Could it be because Auto Club is doesn't advertise on SPEED?
- February 22, 2008 at 3:22 PM
- Anonymous said...
But how many hours will Speed vamp before going to some pre-recorded show?
That's why SPEED needs some reality shows like NBS 24/7 and Beyond the Wheel again.
When it used to rain for more than an hour on SPEED, FOX or FX, they would just start showing reruns of those shows or NASCAR Drivers 360 with a scroll updating the conditions at the bottom.
Now (at least last year) FOX uses COPS as its rain delay replacement - maybe we should be glad SPEED doesn't have that annoying show to use.
It would make it easier on the broadcasters too to have some alternative programs lined up.
And I hope the weather holds this weekend so I don't hear the theme from COPS tomorrow for Trucks or Sunday afternoon for Cup.
I just turned the TV back on. Dryers still on the track.... I hear Mike Joy's voice now. He said Sprint Cup Practice so I guess Nationwide practice was canceled. I bet their second practice scheduled for tonight will be cancelled.
- February 22, 2008 at 3:25 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
I personally prefer the live interviews as rain-fill. When they air "Back in the Day" type episodes that's when I change the channel.
I still would like to see the TV broadcasters have a better understanding of how these rain-out rules work for setting the starting lineup. Darrell was talking about Jarrett using the past champion's provisional and then Michael getting in on last year's atemmpts (or something like that). It's top 35 from '07, then '07/'08 race winners, then all former champions, then '08 owner's points. There are no provisionals. Jarrett and Bill Elliott would BOTH get in based on being former champions. Neither is charged with using one of their 6 provisionals. Michael, Reutimann, Vickers, etc. are highest in 2008 owner's points.
If the TV guys like DW and Bob Dillner don't know the qualifying rules how are the viewers watching at home supposed to figure things out?
- February 22, 2008 at 3:37 PM
- Anonymous said...
Forecast for Sat appears as if both Truck and Nationwide races should get in if they start on time. Nationwide race is supposed to start 4:30 PST and chance of rain isn't supposed to come in until about 7 PST.
Sunday looks worse. 90 percent chance of rain all day, better hope they revise that forecast late tomorrow and it improves. If I get ready to watch race on Sunday and it's raining, the DVR is going on and we're going to do something else. No need to wait for them to say, "we hope to get racing soon" as it pours like they did with some of the rain delays last year. when we know it isn't going to happen.
- February 22, 2008 at 3:40 PM
- Anonymous said...
Wow, they are totally reading this board. They switched to a Back in the Day episode with a scroll at the bottom a few minutes ago.
But I'm sorry, guys, while I appreciate the effort to be proactive, I am a NASCAR reality show fan, like current reality, not a Back in the Day fan. So I won't be watching this.
I'll watch driver rain delay interviews for about an hour, so I don't mind when they show those. I'm pretty sure I read that NASCAR rain delays don't suffer hardly any in the TV ratings because fans want to listen to the drivers.
But after an hour, I'm not interested anymore. And three plus hours like today? Nope. I REALLY appreciate their effort, though, that has got to be exhausting. That's why they should have some reality shows at the ready.
But thank you SPEED for being dedicated anyway.
- February 22, 2008 at 3:51 PM
- Anonymous said...
I'm pretty sure I read that NASCAR rain delays don't suffer hardly any in the TV ratings because fans want to listen to the drivers.
I'll correct myself. The ratings do drop during rain delays, but they're still higher than other live sporting events airing against them like NBA and MLB games.
- February 22, 2008 at 3:58 PM
- Anonymous said...
Regarding the rainout qualifying rules for the beginning of the season - it is shocking broadcast professionals don't know the rules.
It only takes a two minute visit to jayski's qualifying page if you don't know. Plus, I assume the networks have access to the elusive NASCAR rule book anyway.
The same thing applies to teams/crew chiefs/drivers. It's not that difficult to figure out who is in and who is out. For a team to not know the rules (especially given the weather forecast) is shocking.
Of course, like a lot of things in sports, it seems like fans take things a lot more seriously than the athletes. I don't know if this is a good thing, but our passion certainly pays their bills.
Hope the rain clears this weekend!
- February 22, 2008 at 4:30 PM
- Anonymous said...
I got home and checked to see what was on SPEED, Back in the day was going off (4:30 here). John Roberts came on for a minute to say still no track activity. They showed footage of Jeff Gordon and Robin Pemberton out touching the track surface, I assume they wanted Jeff to give his opinion, and he must have said no. They showed Jeff talking to Steve Letarte and Zippy I guess they wanted to know what he thought. They said the fog over the mountains is not allowing the track to dry even though it's not raining.
So nothing going on, they said Trackside would be on at the scheuled time no matter what, which doesn't make sense, what if they are still practicing or qualifying? It will only be 7 out there. Unless they're thinking everything is going to be off today.
And back to Back in the day. (I don't care for that show either, so switched to Jim Rome on ESPN after JR went off.)
- February 22, 2008 at 4:42 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
I still hope NASCAR is dedicated to getting this Cup qualifying session in tonight, even if it takes until 11 PM or midnight PST, and if it gets that far I hope Speed sticks around to cover it. NASCAR needs to give Schrader, Skinner, Carpentier, Lamar, and Allmendinger a fair chance to make the show.
Even if it takes another 5 hours for the rain to stop there's still plenty of time to get the Cup cars 90 minutes of practice, get the Nationwide cars out there for their first practice session of the week while the Cup cars are being inspected, and then get the Cup cars qualified. I don't think anyone would be too upset about Truck qualifying being scrapped because they already had their practice yesterday and every truck entered will race tomorrow whether there's qualifying or not.
- February 22, 2008 at 4:47 PM
- Anonymous said...
I think the issue is not that it's raining - it stopped raining a couple hours ago. The track has little leaks of water in the asphalt.
You can't dry a two mile track in an area like Fontana when the mist is in the air directly above it and it has those "weepers". As the evening goes on I don't know that it will get drier. If this had cleared up early this morning and the sun came out they would have had a better chance.
My bet is they'll shut the garage by 3 Pacific, 6 Eastern. It's unrealistic IMO for SPEED to stay on to what would be 2-3 in the morning Eastern, even if NASCAR was still conducting activity.
But I think that they're finding weepers in the asphalt shows that if it rains on Sunday for any length of time, that race won't run until Monday.
- February 22, 2008 at 5:11 PM
- Anonymous said...
please have jeff gordon explain why he has never mentioned his late father JIMMY GORDON from back in the day in california the west coast king of the behind the wheel driver /jimmy ment a untimely death crashedcand died hard hitting the first turn wall after being TBONED at the roseville raceway track in a late modle car. I`m a dale sr. fan a dale jr. fan an jeff gordon fan but most of all MY HERRO was and in my minds eye still is jimmy gordon.
thankyou jack
- February 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM
- Anonymous said...
SPEED had brief update Same thing as of 5:30 that everyone mentioned above. No racing. Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson out on the track checking it. The sky didn't look that bad, so maybe there's hope. But no sun. Probably depends on how much water is coming up in the track.
- February 22, 2008 at 5:47 PM
- Anonymous said...
Now (at least last year) FOX uses COPS as its rain delay replacement - maybe we should be glad SPEED doesn't have that annoying show to use.
You know, we found that really insulting last year. No race today, NASCAR fans? We'll we know what kind of programming you like and will keep you NASCAR people watching Fox..."Cops"!
- February 22, 2008 at 5:58 PM
- Anonymous said...
Is today
Your NASCAR
Our NASCAR
or their NASCAR
Oh Strickland you are so naive to think that qualifying would go off at midnight EASTERN.
you posted at 5PM ET 2PM Pacific that after five hours 7PM PT they would then have 90 minutes of practice followed by 90 minutes of Insurance practice making it now 10PM Pacific = 1AM Eastern then have qualifying. Sure you are not friends with Erik?
- February 22, 2008 at 6:13 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Now John Roberts is talking about these "new" rules for qualifying rain-outs in the first 5 races of a season. Again I wish these broadcasters had a grasp of these qualifying rules. There is absolutely nothing new about these rules. These exact rules were used as recently as Bristol in the 5th race of 2006!
How can everyone working on these broadcasts be this clueless?
- February 22, 2008 at 6:18 PM
- Anonymous said...
NASCAR needs to give Schrader, Skinner, Carpentier, Lamar, and Allmendinger a fair chance to make the show.
Of course, they called qualifying for rain several times last season...
- February 22, 2008 at 6:21 PM
- Karen said...
Qualifying for Cup cancelled at 6:25 ET. What a bummer. Planned my whole evening around NASCAR.
- February 22, 2008 at 6:34 PM
- Anonymous said...
Bad weather again, qualifying not going to happen. At the end of NASCAR Now on ESPN2, you could see hail coming down on the track. I hope the cars are all tucked away.
SPEED has finally gotten tired of showing Back in the Day and has started showing Survival of the Fastest, beginning with the episode right before the Chase. I think it's a DEI episode with Truex.
- February 22, 2008 at 6:35 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Oh Strickland you are so naive to think that qualifying would go off at midnight EASTERN.
you posted at 5PM ET 2PM Pacific that after five hours 7PM PT they would then have 90 minutes of practice followed by 90 minutes of Insurance practice making it now 10PM Pacific = 1AM Eastern then have qualifying. Sure you are not friends with Erik?
Qualifying at California would only take around 2 hours, so 3 hours of practice plus 2 hours of qualifying starting at 7:00 PST would have pushed things right to midnight local time.
Out of fairness to the go-or-go homers I would have liked to see them do that, but at the same time I wasn't naive enough to believe that they would. Oh well.
I don't know how being sympathetic to the go-or-go homers and wanting to see them get a chance to qualify makes me like the "ESPN is great and everyone else is terrible" guy you compared me to.. but maybe that's just me.
- February 22, 2008 at 6:36 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
Hey guys,
Got a nice note from the TV compound talking about your comments and the fact that SPEED basically only had one race so far this season to review. That can only take you so far, and three hours was about it.
The drivers were in their haulers and the pickins' were slim for stories and interviews. There is a new post up about tonight's NASCAR Now, and once again we really appreciate the TV crews at the track reading The Daly Planet and offering their feedback.
- February 22, 2008 at 6:52 PM
- batchief said...
Stricklinfan, you had better check that rule again. Earlier today Carpentier said he thought he was in regardless of the weather only to find out that the rainout rule for the first 5 races had been changed and it is based on current owner points which means he is out. On Go Or Go Home Steve Byrnes thought the rule was the same as last year where the top 35 in points from last year were in and John Roberts corrected him with the above version which he said they verified with Nascar.
- February 22, 2008 at 6:53 PM
- batchief said...
Forgot to mention on rainouts it is the top 42 in owners points. It wasn't mentioned where number 43 is derived from.
- February 22, 2008 at 6:56 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Stricklinfan, you had better check that rule again. Earlier today Carpentier said he thought he was in regardless of the weather only to find out that the rainout rule for the first 5 races had been changed and it is based on current owner points which means he is out. On Go Or Go Home Steve Byrnes thought the rule was the same as last year where the top 35 in points from last year were in and John Roberts corrected him with the above version which he said they verified with Nascar.
John Roberts explanation said the field was baed on this year's top 42 in current owner's points, which would put Ryan Newman and Kurt Busch on the front row. The starting lineup I saw had Johnson and Gordon on the front row, which backs up my understanding of the rules.
I would recommend reading Jayski for a full explanation. This rule has not changed since at least 2006. Look at the starting lineup for the spring race at Bristol of that year. Top 35 in 2005 owner's points, then '05/'06 race winners (none), then past champions (Terry Labonte), then 2006 (not 2005) owner's points and qualifying attempts.
Patrick Carpentier and the #10 team didn't understand that the rules in races 1-5 are different from races 6-36. They probably assumed the whole field was baed on 2007 points, but they were not correct.
Again, if the starting lineup on Jayski at 7:00 eastern is accurate than I am correct that nothing has changed since 2006.
- February 22, 2008 at 7:08 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Here's the proof about the 2006 Food City 500 at Bristol, broken down by Jayski:
Unless the starting lineup on Jayski's at 7:00 is wrong, the rules have not changed from 2006. The #10 team and Speed Channel made a mistake.
- February 22, 2008 at 7:16 PM
- Anonymous said...
I just saw on another board that Trackside has been moved to 8:30 PM EST and will replay at 10PM the original time.
I thought the Speed Channel crew did a good job today. I didn't think they needed to stretch it to three hours without moving to a prerecorded show (what about that Road to Daytona show that was on Fox Sunday, SPEED should be able to air that?), but maybe they were hopeful or were told that racing activity would get going soon.
I personally thought they did a great job of finding people to interview. I watched for about 45 min and probably saw seven or eight interviews. It didn't seem like they wasted too much time with filler or had trouble finding people to interview.
- February 22, 2008 at 7:22 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
Final comment on the qualifying rule confusion:
The ironic thing about the #10 team being confused about these qualifying rules is that these same exact rules allowed them to start that 2006 race at Bristol. They were a new team and had they used entirely 2005 points they would have missed the field. If they could flash back to how these not-so-new rules saved them in 2006 maybe they would remember that there is nothing "new" about this rain-out procedure in the first 5 races of a season.
- February 22, 2008 at 7:26 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- February 22, 2008 at 7:34 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
I thought the Speed guys did a good job with the rain fill coverage. Other than the on-air guys being clueless about these rainout rules that have been in place for no less than 3 years, they did as well as could have been expected.
Definitely a downer to lose 10 straight hours of live on-track action to the rain :(
- February 22, 2008 at 7:35 PM
- Anonymous said...
Where are the penalties for track operators who can't control ground water from screwing the entire architecture of qualifying?
These go or go home-ers spend money they can't afford to travel across the country, yet because a millionare track owner doesn't build it correctly, these guys get punished?
Come on NASCAR!!! If Robby Gordon has to cough $100k for an innocent mistake, why not a track owner?
This is NOT a new problem to this venue, and its not as though it rains every week in SoCal!!!
Fine them, and pay it to the go or go home teams!!!
- February 22, 2008 at 8:07 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
Anon 8:07PM,
I have seen this at big tracks and small, it is just the nature of the beast. The ironic thing is that California Speedway really needed a good solid weekend of racing to get back on the map after the disasters of 2007.
Despite what the Prez of the speedway is saying, things are not very rosy for the future out there right now. It is certainly a shame coming off a good Daytona 500.
- February 22, 2008 at 8:11 PM
- Anonymous said...
"Come on NASCAR!!! If Robby Gordon has to cough $100k for an innocent mistake, why not a track owner?"
NASCAR's parent company, ISC, owns California Speedway, um, Auto Club Speedway. They aren't going to fine themselves.
Agreed about Robby, I hope they win the appeal on that.
- February 22, 2008 at 8:25 PM


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You might be one of those people who were planning to get into the housing market when prices fell and have been saving what they can in recent years.
And yes, house prices will fall - but unless you can find a house made out of gingerbread and coal, the rising prices of everything except houses will mean that you won't be able to feed or warm yourself inside your lovely new home
Inflation must and will be allowed to destroy the capital of the minority of ordinary people who were fortunate or astute enough to avoid debt slavery
but if you must go through the ritual of switching a worthless accounting entry from one useless fiat bank to another useless fiat bank there really can, and will, be only one...
and if this all gets a bit much to bear may I recommend the excellent 'Recession Blocker' news filter...
85 comments:
Out of interest (and strictly just out of curiosity), which money laundering laws apply to the purchase of gold and how do they work?
- 4 October 2008 at 13:56
- Stef said...
Over £5k of gold purchases in any one transaction or £10k in a year and you have supply proof of ID and address
and, obviously, if you use anything but cash the dealer has to keep records for 5-7 years
- 4 October 2008 at 14:06
The government have got as cheek going on about money laundering what with that counterfeiting scam they've got going on!
- 4 October 2008 at 14:54
- Stef said...
and not forgetting all our new Russian Oligarch chums who've been given such a warm, tax-free welcome here
- 4 October 2008 at 15:06
- The Antagonist said...
What happens when people finally realise / admit that gold is little more than a bit of received wisdom shiny, oppression-fuelled, trinket metal?
- 4 October 2008 at 15:23
A piece of shiny received wisdom that has managed to keep its value for 5000 years whilst every single fiat currency in existence during that time has been inflated away to nothing!
- 4 October 2008 at 15:28
- The Antagonist said...
You're right, some illusions have a far greater shelf-life than others.
- 4 October 2008 at 15:32
- Stef said...
I've had this out with a few folks elsewhere
Gold has retained its value but, at the end of the day, it is just metal
and a metal whose supply and price is firmly under the sway of the same fuckers who've imploded the current system
if we were to turn over to a gold based system they're sitting on mounds of the stuff
someone mentioned on this blog a while back that it's land, not gold, that's the key to wealth
I'd add productive machinery and a skilled workforce to that
- 4 October 2008 at 15:35
- The Antagonist said...
- 4 October 2008 at 15:44
- Stef said...
I didn't see that one coming ;)
- 4 October 2008 at 15:49
- Stef said...
/ buys gold
- 4 October 2008 at 15:50
- paul said...
Harvey is deffo one of the good guys
- 4 October 2008 at 16:10
You're right that gold is highly manipulated but having said that even they'd find it very hard to counterfeit 1.14 quadrillion of the stuff.
- 4 October 2008 at 16:19
- Stef said...
Yes, it would put a brake on some of the kinds of inflation we've seen and will see
And I wouldn't criticize anyone with a few bob to spare picking up a few coins to tide them over if and when things get a little sticky
arguably the big reason why that gold will retain value is that there are very powerful interests which will ensure that it does because they have lots of it
by buying into gold in a small way ordinary people would be supporting that inequitable state of affairs in exchange for (hopefully) a few crumbs off their Masters' table
and that's, arguably, the kind of behaviour which got us where we are now
- 4 October 2008 at 16:37
- Stef said...
whatever else comes out of all of this it seems pretty clear that a lot more people are thinking about and facing up to the nature of money (especially the small issue that most of it doesn't actually exist)
which is pretty good news in the long run imho
given the central role played by money in most peoples' lives - in it's acquisition and spending - it is pretty fucking astonishing how little people understand about the stuff
- 4 October 2008 at 16:49
- Stef said...
Another great thing about the current crisis is watching the sheer, stupefied confusion of all those Conspiraloon bashers out there who can't bring themselves to admit that they haven't the first idea what the fuck is going on
- They didn't see It coming
- They don't know where It's going
- They don't know what to do about It
That allegedly rational world of mainstream orthodoxy and narratives which you had to be insane to disbelieve is being exposed for the pile of mendacious shit that it is
It almost makes the prospect of living through an Economic Apocalypse worth it
- 4 October 2008 at 16:56
Fortunately landlords are only permitted to increase rent prices once per year...and mine already has.
- 4 October 2008 at 17:06
A friend of mine who lives in New York just told me banks there have completely stopped supplying mortgages and car loans, and a great many people are trying to get refunds on their shopping in order get extra credit back. No such thing as savings over there. Scary.
- 4 October 2008 at 17:57
Here in Germany they have what is called a Tausch system in certain communities.You work not for money but for points that enable you to swap your points for goods,,for example,I´m a Carpenter.I put on a door for someone I get 50 points,,,I could use my points to "buy" food from the local Farmer,,,etc,,it has its limitations obviously but the more and varied the Tausch ring the more possibilities you have.
This kinda of thing may become more popular soon!,,,it is of course the way things worked before money came along.
- 4 October 2008 at 18:43
/ rushes off to get "my" "money" from the bank.
Damn, I am really badly prepared. What you say Stef, should I buy stuff that would be helpful?
- 4 October 2008 at 19:02
- Stef said...
we're all badly prepared
and how much extra time would buying stuff that would reaslly be helpful secure you if things really got that bad?
it's always a good idea to keep a few basics on hand but past that...
/ shrugs shoulders
- 4 October 2008 at 19:11
Thanks for the answer, Stef.
Whilst being a conspiraloon, I am like conspiraloon bashers in that whilst:
a) I did see it coming (fellow conspiraloons kept my faith in the doomsday scenario alive in spite of the media onslaught) and
b) I have a v. good idea of where it's going (neo-feudalism, anyone?),
c) I also don't have a bloody clue as to what to do about it. Lots of options have been suggested - emigration is regrettably not practicable for me (or at least by the time it could be practicable, it'll be way past closing time in the UK - i.e. from a currency exchange and an island fortress exit tax point of view). Anyway, I don't see a place that is going to be particularly clear of the forthcoming neo-feudalism (even N.Z. may change to a pro-US government - viva le-GM crops).
I wonder whether a small semi-dependent territory (e.g. the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man)
might be considered insignificant enough by the powers that be to escape their attention for a few decades.
Assuming that I could get in.
Trouble with gold is, that even if I could smurf purchase a lot of it under the radar, I'd have to find a way of replacing my Prius' exhaust and oil sump pan with ones made of gold and hope that I don't scrape the underside on a road hump or whilst rolling onto a car ferry.
An economic apocalypse is only worth living through if you are able to have a good few decades of life on the other side.
- 4 October 2008 at 19:18
- Stef said...
the problem with a Tausch system from the Establishment's point of view is that you can't tax it, charge interest on it or inflate it
there's no reason anyone in all fairness should, as all you're doing is exchanging one thing (labour) for another (labour or goods) and not making a profit
of course, if you couldn't rip people's labour off with tax, interest and inflation you'd have to take a bigger chunk from people who are making unearned gains just from owning stuff and that wouldn't be cricket
- 4 October 2008 at 19:18
the above is a Tausch ring.
Learn a useful trade.
I have a cousin.Billy Allan.He has been banging on for years about the need for skills and training.He is/was among other things chairman of Scottish University for Industry.
Self made man.Started off as an electrician with EJ Stiell.
Do they even train apprentices in the UK anymore!?
- 4 October 2008 at 19:20
- Stef said...
thanks to the magic of the currency carry trade NZ will go down as hard as anywhere else
and, as luck would have it, the guy who's set to be the next NZ PM used to work for the Federal Reserve and has the kind of 'reforming' agenda we in the UK would find very familiar
it's a small world
re. living through Economic Apocalypses, all any of us can do, if that is what is to be, is to do to our little bit to ensure that the right people get blamed and dealt with this time, just for a change
- 4 October 2008 at 19:25
- Stef said...
/ gets back to visa application
- 4 October 2008 at 19:35
"all any of us can do, if that is what is to be, is to do to our little bit to ensure that the right people get blamed and dealt with this time, just for a change"
Us and what army?
I'm in a bit of misanthropic mood, today. Sorry.
An interesting book worth a gander is "Power and Profit: The Merchant in Medieval Europe" by Peter Spufford. Amongst many other lessons, he describes the reintroduction of coin into the 14th century agricultural economy by the monied city classes (mostly royalty/noblemen).
At harvest time, coin went out into the country.
At taxation/tithe time, coin came back into the city.
This cycle persisted for some years until suddenly (long after dependence on the use of coin had been entrenched) coin stopped leaving the city (poor market prices, hiked tithes/taxation).
Suddenly, the farming folk needed coin but couldn't get any, but the tithes/taxation obligations didn't go away.
Result, land/feudal farming rights sold to coined classes. Farming folk become indentured slaves.
Difference between then and now is that the money was real rather than fractional reserve jobbies at high leverage.
He who fails to learn from history is doomed to repeat it. Even in my schooldays (early 1980s) kids were taught medieval history (particularly about the ins and outs of feudalism). Certainly not in recent times since preparations are afoot to repeat history. Again.
- 4 October 2008 at 19:43
Seems the EU will have its own version of a business "bailout" which will have other legal tidbits hidden in it...
- 4 October 2008 at 19:51
- 4 October 2008 at 20:04
The problem with capitalism are the bankers.
Here are a few suggestions.Try and remove yourself from the energy chain,,,ie gas and electricity.
Don´t get into debt.
Live healthy.
Learn a useful skill.
Move out of the city.
Fuck knows what the future holds,,but i think things are going to go seriously wrong.
I always remember the quote "when a civilization becomes too heavy it falls under it´s own weight" summit like that,,,anyway
- 4 October 2008 at 20:16
- Stef said...
I'm trying to picture how a Tausch/ barter system would work here in London...
'I'll write the parking tickets!'
'I'll make the sales calls!'
'I'll monitor the C02 emissions!'
We are sooooooo fucked
- 4 October 2008 at 20:16
- Stef said...
@not anon
am working on a very similar list as we speak
I could add a few supplemental items
- live the kind of life where your family, friends and neighbours really give a shit about you
- avoid being msnipulsted through greed, fear ...and yes despair
- go for a walk somewhere nice every now and then
- turn the fucking tele off
etc etc
I'd be the first to admit that I'm a pessimistic sounding fucker but life is worth living and it's always a good idea to do things which reconnect you with thst knowledge
- 4 October 2008 at 20:25
- Stef said...
Us and what army?
a fair question
but I personally believe that the majority of people, for all their weaknesses, are misguided and heavily medicated, not wicked
so there's always hope
only a wee bit but it's better than nowt
- 4 October 2008 at 20:29
- paul said...
but I personally believe that the majority of people, for all their weaknesses, are misguided and heavily medicated, not wicked
I certainly go along with that, my experience that people are generally as good as they can be, and that is often modified by their environment (social/economic..whatever), the big problem is the non general cases know this as well, which is why chaos and induced confusion suits them better than boring old stability.
- 4 October 2008 at 20:43
'I'll write the parking tickets!'
'I'll make the sales calls!'
'I'll monitor the C02 emissions!'
We are sooooooo fucked
Well, I can fix computer systems\networks and have rudimentary knowledge in other areas...
But I understand your point, we've lost a lot of "real" jobs and industries, eg manufacturing.
- 5 October 2008 at 02:09
Not all countries have those laws Stef. If you bought 4K with no documentation, how could they know whether you bought 10x 4K in a year?
If you're subject to controls on purchasing/trading, it's a piece of pie to get around it.
If there are controls, no prizes for guessing why! If they manipulate the price of Gold doesn't that tell us something? WHY do they want control it and HOW come they are able to try and control it? Why do they have a huge gold reserves? Because it ISN'T the clever thing to do???
That gold retained its value is proof enough as to it's usefulness and effectiveness. I can't see how just being a metal is of any relevance? Land is highly valuable too, but If which is easier to keep possession of???
When the US tried to make illegal holding gold ($35/oz thingy) I have it on good authority that many smart USans sent their gold overseas in anticipation the US would a few days later put the lower value on the dollar to that of gold.
No other token of value anyone can think of is better than gold. It is a cornerstone of a fair economic system.
If anyone doesn't believe in Gold yet still use paper instead, well, it's a poor choice indeed.
- 5 October 2008 at 14:58
- Stef said...
If there are controls, no prizes for guessing why! If they manipulate the price of Gold doesn't that tell us something? WHY do they want control it and HOW come they are able to try and control it? Why do they have a huge gold reserves? Because it ISN'T the clever thing to do???
All it tells us is that gold is a useful component of Their system. 'They' also go out of their way to control the guns and drugs businesses but that doesn't convince me that guns and drugs are good things
Gold won't feed a hungry child or put clothes on its back.
Gold's real inherent value is a fraction of what is currently placed on it (like that other Rothschild controlled commodity scam - the diamonds business)
And, more to the point, by placing too much value on gold ordinary people yield a tremendous amount of power to those who have nothing to offer this world other than the fact they've accumulated a mound of it
I'm not denying that a few coins might prove useful in the months and years ahead but AFAIC the bankers can keep all the gold, provided the rest of us get to keep the land
- 5 October 2008 at 15:16
India owns about 1/3 of the worlds gold (most of it among its civillians!)
If the western fake and oppressive economic lobbox fails (please let it, please) then India and more importantly Indian citizens will be some of the richest people in the world.
Richest man in the world... Indian!
- 5 October 2008 at 15:19
- Stef said...
A move to a gold backed system would be a useful safeguard against deliberate inflation and deflation of economies
Which would be nice
However, in itself, such a move wouldn't provide a solution to theft through interest and inequitable taxation
Nor would it do anything to redress the entrenched inequities which centuries of scamming have brought about
Gold is not a panacea and it worries me when people talk about it as such
(Not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing so)
- 5 October 2008 at 15:34
- Stef said...
and whilst I'm not a Christian myself I do think the New Testament is chock full of little nuggets of wisdom
In the context of the current discussion I'm thinking particularly about 'Render unto Caesar...' which, if interpreted in a particualr way, could form the basis of a nicely subversive little philosophy
- 5 October 2008 at 15:41
- Stef said...
"For the love of money is the root of all evil"
...is also a cracker and I'm not sure that Paul was making any distinction between fiat and gold based systems
- 5 October 2008 at 15:45
cbsky"Gold won't feed a hungry child or put clothes on its back." - Ah Stef, that's not fair. No token of money will do that. That doesn't negate that gold is the best measure and store value and fascilitate trade.
Only food will fill a hungry child, only clothes will cover it. Given that most people do not make their own clothes from scratch or grow (enough of) their own food, these things must be purchased or you must offer your labor/skills for them.
Even though I advocate every civillian on the planet is involved in cultivation of food in some form, a token of wealth is necessary for commerce, and of none beats gold.
Diamonds have little intrinsic wealth. A Diamonds value comes (figuratively) 90% from its advertising and hype. Diamionds can be synthesised. Curently, no nuclear perturbment can produce a 197Au nucleus.
Gold is the biz! I would accept that in a system in which gold trade may be restricted or hampered then having 100% of your wealth in gold will result in a rather difficult life. However, anyone looking to save should try and hold a significant amont of the stuff, not just a few coins.
Placing emphasis on gold is no different to the current reality, in fact it's better than placing the emphasis on useless paper which is infinitely more manipulatable, and which they they have near FULL control over, which is what i said earlier (about not paying paying gold it's due importance but stick with the paper is worse!)
There will always be schemes/scams/plots and struggles to control the tool of trade, but we need to ask which offers the best way ahead? That way for me at least is gold.
I agree land is excelent in terms of masure of wealth, becasue you can groq your own money. Food counts as money in Islamic economics. Rice, Sugar, Wheet... But I wonder what names would turn up if you look at the most fertile lands in the world? When i advocate use of gold it is in the Islamic fashion and not Just gold (a misconception I feel amongst many). Land and consumable goods are an integral part of that! :)
Stef and all, I advise you to read up on Islamic economics. Shekh Imran Hoseins books and DVD's are great for this. Remember... You dont have to be religious to use this system...
Islam and Money Session 1.
Islam and Money Session 2.
Islam and Money Session 3.
Islam and Money Session 4.
I posted these links before but they didn't work out.
Please check them out.
- 5 October 2008 at 15:57
"in itself, such a move wouldn't provide a solution to theft through interest" - In the Islamic system there is no interest :))) Gold isn't the be all and end all of a just economic system, but it's foundation, and it's good that you identify it not being so.
The more complicated the system the more scope there is for clever scammers to twist it. Economics should be simple - accessible and understandable to all. Only horrendous frauds like interest take economics away from the masses.
Actually, what you identify puts you very close to the Islamic system of economics.
The Zakat system of economics and would crush all this fake trade and the oppressive yolks. The Zakat would bring about the necessary redistribution.
Not being a Muslim, I can understand your scepticism, which is why I implore you to check it out.
As for Render unto Caesar... Well, I don't know the background on that, but it can be interpreted in a number of ways. Was it said? Were those the exact words? That Council of Nicea again.
ps: what looks like .wr file extensions to the files I posted earlier, they should read ".wmv.html" for all files. Blogger has chopped the 'm' to look like an 'r'
- 5 October 2008 at 16:13
humf... rapidshare has probs finding the files... :(
the sheiks new website is likely to have some economic videos on it.
- 5 October 2008 at 16:29
- Stef said...
The words attributed to JC, in response to a question about paying taxes, are...
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
There are a lot of ways of interpreting that quote but I think JC was saying that Caesar's face was on the coins, so far as JC was concerned Caesar could have them back
Where we've fucked up today is that we give back to the money lenders not the worthless toilet paper they issue, or even their shiny coins, but things of real worth - our labour, our homes, our land
- 5 October 2008 at 16:34
- Stef said...
There's a fundamental issue that I don't think you're fully addressing here
The people behind the current crash - the Greenspans, Bernankes and Pualsons of this world knew full well that it was an inevitable consequence of the debt money system
So, presumably, the class of people they represent will have made preparations for that inevitable crash
And a move to a gold based system is the most obvious and widely promoted alternative. So, presumably, gold will be a key part of those preparations
Do you honestly believe anyone on the outside of that controlling cabal knows who has title to all the world's gold reserves?
As mentioned already, the reason why I'm confident that gold will hold and maybe increase its value is because that's what the architects of the current fiasco are banking on
We run a very real risk of seeing the system change without any real change of management
- 5 October 2008 at 17:02
- Stef said...
'I'll write the parking tickets!'
'I'll make the sales calls!'
'I'll monitor the C02 emissions!'
We are sooooooo fucked
Well, I can fix computer systems networks and have rudimentary knowledge in other areas...
But I understand your point, we've lost a lot of "real" jobs and industries, eg manufacturing.
I picked the jobs I used as an example fairly carefully to reflect the fact that not only are a lot of us engaged in useless jobs we're in engaged in useless jobs that nobody wants us to do - enforcing poxy regulations or selling crap that's positively harmful to any mugs who buy it
One of the fringe benefits of our wonderful new surveillance society is that it enables the powers that be to fleece people evenly more effectively, bit by bit, whilst imprisoning them
- 5 October 2008 at 17:16
One of the fringe benefits of our wonderful new surveillance society is that it enables the powers that be to fleece people evenly more effectively, bit by bit, whilst imprisoning them
Eventually, a society that will have two roles: Work for the system or be captive.
- 5 October 2008 at 18:40
Now is this the right post for this link? Or should I look for one where you write about wikipedia?
- 5 October 2008 at 19:50
- The Antagonist said...
Stef said...
Where we've fucked up today is that we give back to the money lenders not the worthless toilet paper they issue, or even their shiny coins, but things of real worth - our labour, our homes, our land
That's Marx 1.0 too!
- 6 October 2008 at 01:28
- paul said...
things of real worth - our labour, our homes, our land
That's Marx 1.0 too!
Its a grand wheeze, let's get them fighting over gold and grub...keeps them occupied.
- 6 October 2008 at 08:11
- Stef said...
Stef said...
Where we've fucked up today is that we give back to the money lenders not the worthless toilet paper they issue, or even their shiny coins, but things of real worth - our labour, our homes, our land
That's Marx 1.0 too!
I'm a connoisseur of the Dutch Masters myself
- 6 October 2008 at 11:40
@ Stef 05 October 2008 17:02
I'm not sure what it is you think I'm missing.
It's my opinion that 'they' knew the system would eventually collapse. But, I think they were of the opinion that they'd be able to blow a few more containing bubbles first before it finally popped for the last time, and given the undefined US $700bln "bailout" has been approved, the FTSE today fell another 4% it seems like this could be the one (famous last words).
I would be shocked if they didn't make preparations for the crash. Which of course means we should prepare as best we can too. That means junking as much paper crap as you can and buying gold or silver. If one is forced to 'register' or whatever, and they chase you later, simply say you traded it for something.
If the government order gold to be recalled (or whatever system people use outside govt control) then we must resist. It would be utterly stupid to comply. The government has no right to take what is yours, and as for the queen/subject crap, Screw the queen. Who gave her permission to have power over us?
It is unquestionable that Gold has always been the best store of wealth in any crisis. It's high value to weight ratio and of course it's inherent persistent value guarantee that. None of that changes because wealthy scum have also realized they will have to use gold later too.
It is obvious to anyone who knows Muslim and Indian society that gold is a vital part of their investment/wealth securing culture and collectively they have reasonable stocks. In times of crisis governments will become increasingly irrelevant and so how much they have in reserve is irrelevant.
If the bad boys sitting on top of the pyramid are 'banking' on gold becoming the de facto means of trade then we should get a slice of the pie as we are going to need some system. What else would we do?
Land as a means of wealth is also meaningless when not in peace-time.
"We run a very real risk of seeing the system change without any real change of management" - But no change of trade system will depose these people. Do you have one in mind? They will only be deposed by the people, either vigilante style and/or finally get control of their political system as a means of justice for the suffering and injustice they've dished out over the years.
Re: Marx, Crack_Smoke_Republican is giving Mr "Marx" a bit of a beating on Iraqwar.
- 6 October 2008 at 14:57
latest from Max Keiser
- 6 October 2008 at 15:41
- Stef said...
@lwtc 247
I don't think you're missing anything as such, it's just that you're placing less emphasis on the perils of gold fixation than I am
You talk in terms of ordinary people taking a slice, I'm thinking in terms of crumbs
A lot more would be required than a simple currency switch to unscrew things and you've acknowledged that - I think we're just talking over our own personal emphases
- 6 October 2008 at 16:31
tha 700 billion worked a fuckin treat eh?!!!
Market Meltdown: Dow Plunges 700 Points to Below 10,000 Amid Global Sell-off- AP
infact its 750 points and the Nas is down over 8%
- 6 October 2008 at 19:34
I know. These bailouts are proving very costly in more ways than one!
- 6 October 2008 at 19:44
I'm placing emphasis on gold because there is no alternative.
Remember, citizens own about one third (my estimate) of global gold. There is no other asset which can empower people more than gold.
It's only we keep listening and slavishly obeying 'them' and their fiat-fixing-gold-price (which of course is actually a measure of the dollar plus all the scams used to affect its price, rather than the actual value of gold) and other restrictions on all trade, then were stuck.
The answer is stop listening to them, buy a reserve of gold. If stormy weather strikes, trade amongst yourselves using gold, rather than barrows full of worthless bits of paper with the stupid queen Elizardbeths head on it.
If one want's to adopt their regulations in times of crisis or otherwise, then you are opening up the door to those very perils.
Of course as we touch the 'system' those perils do and will impinge upon us - there's little we can do about that, but the further we keep 'the system', the more realistic and sustainable the trade system comes. Removal of their fraudulent constraints will see the natural equilibrium re-establish itself.
I know in the UK a gold micro-economy is pretty small and it's hard for people to 'feel' it, and it is quite a long way from being a widespread (hence viable) counter system.
- 7 October 2008 at 06:00
Similar to what was mentioned earlier... We are all using the stock market value to ascertain the progression of the financial crisis, oui?
But aren't those headline values (DOW, STI, FTSE etc..) manipulated to some extent by TPTB? What is the extent of the manipulation?
If TPTB have a large degree of power over the Stock Exchange prices then it implies the crisis is primarily a con. If however TPTB's influence is marginal, then it's the system that's coming down and there is unlikely to be a recovery, despite all and sundry clamouring to get back to more of the same rubbish system we had before.
Amongst loons, I guess the default opinion will be TPTB have major influence, in which case the turmoil will be painful but not world changing panic-driven frenzied crisis.
It would be great to hear from fellow loons how deep 'their' influence actually goes.
- 7 October 2008 at 06:11
- Stef said...
We are all using the stock market value to ascertain the progression of the financial crisis, oui?
You won't find me mentioning stock market prices much here or anywhere else
A couple of commentators here have but I sure they appreciate the limitations of index figures
The stock market is a totally rigged game which acts as a glorified ATM for insiders - ordinary people's pension fund contributions being a particular juicy source of revenue
Bollocks to stock market crashes. What will make or break the current system is the amount of money in supply and the integrity of our currencies
Stock market data is rammed down our throats daily. Money supply data is never mentioned at all. Says it all really...
- 7 October 2008 at 08:01
- Stef said...
..and right now it looks as if currencies are heading towards implosion
which gets us back to the gold thing
what I find fascinating is that I have encountered people via this blog who broadly agree on the causes of the current situation but differ so much on the subject of what kind of money we should be using instead - ranging from uber gold bugs to wanting to do away with money completely
personally, I think we can't avoid money but doing away with usury and implementing honest accounting of the amount of £££ in circulation (not too much, not too little) are much more important to me than what the tokens are made from
- 7 October 2008 at 08:21
@ Stef
I don't see how individual company share price, differs so much from the effective sum of company share prices, namely the stock market index. And it's fair to say it's a popular quick toe-dip used by a number of number of loons.
I'm of the opinion the FTSE is a reasonable indicator of overall health of companies.
Clearly when the share price drops like a stone, it's not the smell of roses that hangs in the air.
Absolutely it is be manipulated, as was pointed out, and, it was actually the basis of a point I was trying to make, namely; Whatever criteria one chooses to assess the financial situation by, (rest assured, you'll find the fingerprints of the TPTB there too!), the degree of control over that indicator will (I should have said 'could') provide a measure of authenticity/severity of this crisis.
If they have control over some index and the index shows freefall, it's likely being deliberately driven that way. If they have little control of it and the picture is gloomy, then it's very likely to be real.
I think money supply is pretty insufficient to assess financial health, but it is one of the the arms of the illusory octopus.
Stock market crashes are significant in that many peoples pensions are invested in the stock market.
As for gold advocates, or uber gold bugs as you call them, they have the best solution which isn't being met by the slightest hint of an alternative.
Gold, the eternally/intrinsically valued beautifully coloured metal, whose limited availability inherently is a HUGE curb against inflation. It stores and retains wealth better than anything, historically proven to be global tradeablity, useful and portable for times of crisis.
This bug is a happy bug.
One reason why I'm so in strongly in favour of gold (religious bit aside) is because if this really is the big crisis, there is only one last big bubble I can think of, the rammifications of which are DIRE. It involves the biometric database. It is... (near)global electronic money, and Dear Lord, that would make paper money look positively marvellous!
- 7 October 2008 at 14:49
4got to say...
Overproduction of money when a fiat currency is employed will ALWAYS occur.
Gold destroys that possibility.
But enhanced rate by which it changes hands provides a similar effect, only is beneficial to the economy. unlike 'more fiat' which is economically detrimental.
- 7 October 2008 at 14:58
- Stef said...
I'm of the opinion the FTSE is a reasonable indicator of overall health of companies.
Clearly when the share price drops like a stone, it's not the smell of roses that hangs in the air
It's a measure of the health of quoted companies not privately controlled ones
There's a whole world of privately managed, undisclosed capital out there which controls the things we really need - food, land, water, energy
That continues to do very nicely, thank you very much, whatever the publicly quoted markets are up to
Most people who are going to suffer from this depression, as with previous ones, are going to suffer as the result of inflation and then deflation
The most significant immediate impact of the current market drops is not to hit pension funds are taking, it's the effect they have on quoted bank capitalisation/ reserves - and as the banks get hit there'll be even less money in circulation
- 7 October 2008 at 15:10
- Stef said...
and I'll let you in on a secret here
Most people who float companies on public exchanges do so not to raise essential capital but to fuck off with as much money looted from pension funds and mug speculators as possible
For every genuine, sincere market float you can come up with I'll be able to dig out at least a dozen lemons
Number of UK building societies which floated over the last 20 years = Ten
Number of UK building societies which floated over the last 20 years and which are now fucked = um, Ten
- 7 October 2008 at 15:27
- Stef said...
I used to make a living auditing companies' books and, to borrow someone else's line, it's a bit like knowing what goes into sausages
the stock market price of a company is fuck all to do with fundamental health and everything to do with mob psychology
the price of a company, or an exchange, occasionally crosses its true value but only on the way up or down to something stupid
- 7 October 2008 at 15:45
- paul said...
As Adam Smith said:
Labour was the first price, the original purchase - money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased.
and no great fan of the shareholder manager model
There is absolutely no problem with fiat money, it lies with who it is creates it and what they charge (which should be nothing).
Fetishising gold is as daft and short term as taking stock markets as seriously as people are encouraged to do.
Gold's value has much to do with managed scarcity. Fuck with that, as the Hunt brothers tried to do with silver, and it suddenly wouldn't look so good.
We're going to need something more than short term survivalist bunkum if things are going to get any better.
I agree, in the current circumstances it might look a 'smart' move. Can everybody get that 'smart'?
Eventually you are going to have to work for the man who has the gold mine (GW Bush 1 is a major figure with the rapacious Barrick Gold I seem to recall - smart guy).
Why not organise a beneficial form of fiat currency,one with purely extrinsic value, one which doesn't require africans to die underground for?
- 7 October 2008 at 17:27
@ Stef.
I can't imagine private companies being shock-proof against the quakes of this stock market crashes. Post-event Government policy (here I go again, ready to get my fingers burned by putting a crumb of faith in the greedy govt) is surely likely to impinge upon private companies after such traumatic events.
They may be more shielded, but doesn't private liability and tax mean the extent/proliferation/existence of private companies is, excuse the unintentional punn, limited?
The reason for company floatation is that they profit raking potential is vastly superior. I can well imagine a few choice nest-egg companies are kept in reserve, but nothing which ultimately couldn't be regulated against (or liberated by the needy masses. )
As for floatation lemons, no dispute there, but I've no data about the $ balance of failures to "successes". If the average was negative I don't think we'd anybody could clamour to float.
There are still utility/food companies outside private hands. But private/public/nationalised companies won't mean much difference to the average sit on bums Joe soaps, if their govt is in the pockets if Mr Rottingchild et al.
I mentioned pensions only to show FTSE values and drops can't for most people be brushed off so lightly.
Granted auditing is a grand con. Enron, Shell... I know some auditors that have earned millions. Such salaries arn't going to be awarded just be seeing if some ledgers balance, No siree! Accountants that made up huge amounts of paper to cover up poor paperwork and company corruption are also not-unfamiliar to me.
I am not saying a companies share reflects its true value, rather the change of share reflects company health. Vibrant companies display increases, terminally ill companies, such as Northern rock, as you did well to document, show a dive in price.
To finish on a quirky point, In a documentary 'breaking the Mirror' by John Pilger, Pilger exposes one of the largest corporations in the world, Rupert Murdochs "News International", as paying paltry sums of Tax because it is registered in the Dutch Antilles (Islands off the North East of South America). Strangely, wiki says this...
"The Netherlands Antilles was scheduled to be dissolved as a unified political entity on 15 December 2008, so that the five constituent islands would attain new constitutional statuses within the Kingdom of the Netherlands,[2] but this dissolution has been postponed to an indefinite future date.[3]"
Strange coincidence that in these times dissolution has been scrapped, isn't it?
- 7 October 2008 at 17:39
- paul said...
If the average was negative I don't think we'd anybody could clamour to float.
Flotations are to liquidate assets, nothing more. The process of underwriting covers the lemon cases. For a handsome fee a financial 'institution' will guarantee a certain price. This gives buyers a sense of confidence and through that confidence the price is set.
No doubt the underwriters will hedge against the possibility of failure, and they will have had their fee.
You need a certain amount of surplus capital to chase flotations, so don't expect too many in the next few years.
- 7 October 2008 at 17:51
- Stef said...
one which doesn't require africans to die underground for?
or South Americans
My Mum repeated a bit of family lore to me the other day - three of my gt grandparents worked in England for a few years and returned to Italy with the money they'd saved.
Two of them came back with gold sovereigns which they keep in their hats and showed off for a while before buying a couple of small farms which some cousins still live in.
The third gt grandparent put his money in the bank and went off to earn some more money so that he could buy something a little more grand.
The bank, of course, went tits up
- 7 October 2008 at 17:54
@ paul.
Yes, I'd agree labour is the initiator of exchange, but the important thing is, what is that labour worth? The 'take' is as noteworthy as the 'give'.
Fiat currency is dangerous in that EVERY single fiat currency as been abused, has entertained inflation and devaluation.
I really disagree about what you call fetishising gold. A token must be used, there is none better than a naturally limited token, there is none better than a token with intrinsic value.
I'd like to ask why is it short term? and I'd pre-empt tht request with a possible explanation as to why you may think such a thing, and that is, because you are contemplating its use still will withing the shadow of the present fraudulent system.
The full value of gold will be seen when the system it operates in allows it's potential to be realised, however it is still the best currency even inside the aforementioned shadow.
I'm not talking about gold in terms of survivalism, (and I read that good survivalist towny/country folk post you posted a few weeks ago) I am talking about it in terms of widespread capital paralysis, where life still goes on but there are massive problems in dealing with the le fiat de jour.
I feel a bit uneasy in the suggestion my advocacy of gold means I bear responsibility to Africans dying! As though supporters of a free health service are in some way responsible for hospitals deaths by MRSA. If the frigging stinking rich gold companies gave a toss about the safety of it's employees, death rates could be the same as normal death rates in ordinary life. But of course, that would reduce profitability.
Show me a fiat that's not abuseable (like gold) then maybe gold might have a rival.
- 7 October 2008 at 18:04
Sorry to hear about your 3rd gt grandfather Stef. Bloody banks!
And the initial function of banks was to keep peoples money safe.
Spin isn't so new after all, so it seems.
And since when did people become inept at finding good hiding places? I'm beginning to suspect the mattress stories are all a big hoax.
- 7 October 2008 at 18:11
- paul said...
Yes, I'd agree labour is the initiator of exchange, but the important thing is, what is that labour worth? The 'take' is as noteworthy as the 'give'.
Well it is something that is gifted to us all at birth. (But commodification has taken care of that ruling class problem)
Fiat currency is dangerous in that EVERY single fiat currency as been abused, has entertained inflation and devaluation.
And unions and governments are all corrupt so we should dump them as a bad idea, even though they, not capitalism or correct choice of token, have been the major engine of improvement.
I really disagree about what you call fetishising gold. A token must be used, there is none better than a naturally limited token, there is none better than a token with intrinsic value.
I consider a worthless token as better as it would have utility rather than value and would limit benefit through accumulation/manipulation.
There's not even a hand luggage allowance when we part this world. I think king tut showed that.
I'd like to ask why is it short term? and I'd pre-empt tht request with a possible explanation as to why you may think such a thing, and that is, because you are contemplating its use still will withing the shadow of the present fraudulent system.
I'm not contemplating it at all, I just see people wondering how they can hang on to what they've got, natural enough, but realise that most have fuck all anyway, including your average gold miner. I think the current hysteria borders on the existential, rather than a cool appraisal of the material.
Fuck the markets, they never did, or ever will do, me any good. They're not designed with me in mind.
The full value of gold will be seen when the system it operates in allows it's potential to be realised, however it is still the best currency even inside the aforementioned shadow.
It's been around a long time, see tut again, but whether it has ever been the solution, I can't say that I see.
I'm not talking about gold in terms of survivalism, (and I read that good survivalist towny/country folk post you posted a few weeks ago) I am talking about it in terms of widespread capital paralysis, where life still goes on but there are massive problems in dealing with the le fiat de jour.
I think a fiat people could have confidence in would do the job just as well. Fiat may be a boogie man for many, but its problem is in its abuse, and its not the only problem, let alone the root of all evil.
I feel a bit uneasy in the suggestion my advocacy of gold means I bear responsibility to Africans dying! As though supporters of a free health service are in some way responsible for hospitals deaths by MRSA. If the frigging stinking rich gold companies gave a toss about the safety of it's employees, death rates could be the same as normal death rates in ordinary life. But of course, that would reduce profitability.
I'm just saying that's how it is with gold...there's not a lot under the ground of merry old england. Spain had to go to the trouble of genocide just to get enough...and that wasn't enough.
Show me a fiat that's not abuseable (like gold) then maybe gold might have a rival.
Show me a society that has blossomed beneath the glow of gold.
The fetishism I talk about is like everybody going around on all fours just in case the earth disappears beneath them.
Humankind is an imaginative species, we could believe in a proper fiat, one that we didn't have to pay for.
- 7 October 2008 at 18:54
- paul said...
...and another thing. Is gold unabuseable? Can I believe the hallmark or do I get an assay on every transaction, how do I measure actual production? Producer temptations would be equal to any fiat, and it does have to be produced, and no one knows how much there is.
Chasing rainbows in my opinion.
- 7 October 2008 at 19:13
Without commodification, heaven help the sick or injured worker or the one that need to look after a dependent.
We should dump these governments, oh yeah we should. Unions had a place but are largely corrupt and helped enable the Brit govt to kill over 1m Iraqi's. Hurray for the unions, splendind job. Where's me subs?
But comparison with gold doing away with fiat isn't I feel analogous to doing away with govts/unions, despite me being broadly in favour of them! Proper unions, unions displaying solidarity, now that's a different much nicer kettle of fish.
Besides, there exists a ready made, viable alternative to fiat that would come on-line in weeks. Gold/fiat. Whats there to replace corrupt Govts or once valiant unions?
Worthless tokens still radiate inflationary pressures due to their ability to produced in any quanitiy desired and can be forged. Tally sticks are simply the 'w' version of e-money - wood-money.
Re: accumulation/manipulation, you are discussing the use of gold in the curent unsustainable and injust system. That's certainly not my preference. Where Gold is in short supply, wheat, barley, rice, sugar and dates etc. make up for the deficiency of gold. It would make no sense for someone to hoard gold in the a proper and fair ecnomic system - a system markedly absent in the western world.
Re: handluggage/king tut, nothing to do with me.
Gold did the job wonderfully. The Islamic so called 'empire' showed as much. Yes it decayed towards the end; it is said the last caliphs embraced riba/usury. The propserity of the Arab kindgom was one reason why the "pope" decided it was time for a crusade or two. The Islamic economic history is testament to gold and the best system for it to operate within. I don't see a 1000+ year example for fiat, or even a quarter century example for the success of fiat. I believe the Thai dynasty, Chinese and Japanese dynasties also exhibit a successful use of gold.
I'm sorry, I'm getting tired very quickly now - been busy on the web today. I have to go get some sleep.
It's a great thread this amongst respected loons who are doing well to test my dearly held posiiton.
- 7 October 2008 at 19:43
I heard there was a cheap device for assessment of coinage/bullion purity. Will try and give dets. later. Stopping forgery not poss.
But state hyperinflation not an issue.
Again, far more advantages to gold than fiat. Fiat, the money with no history of successful implementation.
- 7 October 2008 at 19:48
- Stef said...
I heard there was a cheap device for assessment of coinage/bullion purity. Will try and give dets. later.
eBay is your friend
though obviously it would be wise to lay your hands on a gold tester tester
- 7 October 2008 at 20:28
- paul said...
Yes it decayed towards the end; it is said the last caliphs embraced riba/usury.
so gold w/o usury is fine but not immune to its predations, why not anything else w/o usury?
Unions had a place but are largely corrupt
Well that has been the propaganda lately
and helped enable the Brit govt to kill over 1m Iraqi's. Hurray for the unions, splendind job. Where's me subs?
Yes, it was the unions behind the second gulf war. why didn't I see it before!?
- 7 October 2008 at 20:56
why not anything else w/o usury? - because IMO, It's very unlikely 'anything else' can exist without usury.
It seems to me the term 'usury' has morphed and lost is full meaning; to become only associated with the charging of Interest. The other corrupting factors have been forgotten about, which actually have the same effect as interest, but aren't as instantly visualised.
To me, expansion of money supply by creating more fiat is usurious - it's inflation, and it undermines the economic system. As is it's opposite - reduction of fiat money supply, i.e. deflation. These two devices, because they can be created and destroyed on the whims of some, ultimately will be manipulated by those seeking to minimise risk i.e. to enable unjustified gain.
Banks, via mortgages, employ usury - double usury!! not only because they charge interest, but because they minimise their risk by taking away the house of a defaulter, to enables the bank to sell again to recover it's losses.
Inventing schemes like this to minimise risk without honest sweat of labor is not conducive to a healthy economy. At the same time, when it comes to credit, one party must embrace risk, the other must embrace the prospect of unexpected gain. E.g. if the lender company collapses, the purchaser has his debts written off. (The house was already his under the initial contract).
Business is a noble if it embraces risk, meaning an investor MUST be prepared to lose all in pursuit of trying to make a profit. Equlibria of "market forces" (remember now... REAL market forces not shadowy forces as we've done away with the shadow usurious schemes) will determine the extent to which this is done. Richer on the whole will take bigger risks as they have bigger amounts of wealth to invest, and will suffer bigger losses - BUT! in a fair economic system it doesn't lead to perpetual ruin like it does in this system, because the market is now fair and will always rewards the hard worker irrespective of his history)
A lender of money must be willing to lose ALL his investment and NOT charge interest or a free that is disproportional to the effort put in, when executing the exchange.
Swapping two bowls of inferior rice for one bowls of superior quality rice is usurious too.
I'm not pretending this system I'd like to see (which is very socialist in nature) is proofed against inventive fraudsters, but the majority of people will mutually gain from the fruits of their labor and will be more willing to engage in honest up-front trade. Financial worries are minimised and the populations mind is more peaceful.
Regulators to detect and prosecute fraudsters would ne necessary as they are necessary in ANY system.
Re: Unions:
Please don't misunderstand my view about unions. Corrupt Unions should be scraped - without question, without hesitation! but that shouldn't be the end of the story! They should be instantly replaced by a corrupt-free alternative. Or more easily, simply remove the corrupt element of the existing system. I never advocate a void! I don't subscribe to Neoliberalism despite rash suppositions.
I never said it was unions behind the gulf war. The incorrect suggestion is a very unfair thing to say.
- 8 October 2008 at 08:42
- paul said...
I never said it was unions behind the gulf war. The incorrect suggestion is a very unfair thing to say.
Unions had a place but are largely corrupt and helped enable the Brit govt to kill over 1m Iraqi's. Hurray for the unions, splendind job. Where's me subs?
I obviously misinterpreted that statement, but now I can't see how it should be interpreted.
As for the role of gold in a golden age, was it the prime factor? Could it have been benevolent dynastic rule, good harvests or a pliant colonial system?
I just think the benificent qualities ascribed to thet wondrous metal are oversold, even bordering on idolatory.
- 8 October 2008 at 10:37
"Unions had a place but are largely corrupt and helped enable the Brit govt to kill over 1m Iraqi's. Hurray for the unions, splendind job. Where's me subs?"
Depending on the individual of course, one might be able to differentiate helping a government kill over 1m Iraqi's by failing to live up to the socialist principles supposedly imbued in trades unionism, such as suspension of labour which would otherwise allow the unimpeded slaughter on behalf of her mudjesty and actually physically pulling the trigger oneself. But as you know, there are people of fine talk but do nowt but sit-on-arse.
There hasn't been a golden calf for quite some time. Don't see one now either.
- 8 October 2008 at 12:12
"Unions had a place but are largely corrupt and helped enable the Brit govt to kill over 1m Iraqi's. Hurray for the unions, splendind job. Where's me subs?"
Depending on the individual of course, one might be able to differentiate helping a government kill over 1m Iraqi's by failing to live up to the socialist principles supposedly imbued in trades unionism, such as suspension of labour which would otherwise allow the unimpeded slaughter on behalf of her mudjesty and actually physically pulling the trigger oneself. But as you know, there are people of fine talk but do nowt but sit-on-arse.
There hasn't been a golden calf for quite some time. Don't see one now either.
- 8 October 2008 at 12:17
-& sorry for the duplicate posting-
- 8 October 2008 at 12:22
Maybe you like this more than wallstrip:
(At least I do)
- 8 October 2008 at 15:01
- Stef said...
I did too, ta ;)
- 8 October 2008 at 23:56


text:
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Skyline Advisors was formed by combining the investment banking operations of CFO Capital and Ideation Ventures in 2017. The firm still has a strong strategic relationship with CFO Systems, which provides timeshare and interim finance, human resource, and corporate development executives.
Skyline Advisors partners with the owners, operators, an
John Gustafson
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Turnkey Beauty & Tanning Salon with 4 hair care stations & 11 tanning beds & more. 2 stylists ready to work for you. No expense spared on the build out. It's a beautiful stylist space.
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text:
And now........
Hi John. I had a problem putting up my picture too but I figured it out. Go to www.photobucket.com and get a free account. Follow the steps and it will show you how to take your picture and load it on to their site. Then it will give you a URL for your picture.
Take the URL address and post this in the area in your blog profile where it asks for a URL to post a picture of yourself. Now you have a picture! If it says your picture is too big for your blog, you can resize it automatically through photobucket and the problem is fixed. Good luck!
I don't know who they are, but I think it's their dimpled flesh that makes them so alluring.
Those Judes hit me like an atom bomb with their Judeness! And I'm thinking Jude is really just a chromosome away from being Peter Lorre.
sorry John,i wanted to enter the contest,but i didnt make something in time.Well,im sure there will be more contest's.
You look like you're from the 1950s.
Perhaps when you have a contest that doesn't require drawing talent, I can enter! So many of you here are such good artists. Keep up the good work.
I like your toys!
Wow, all the winners and you're own stuff is great. Who's the girl on the right in the one labeled "Beauties".. It's on the TIP of my tongue and it's driving me crazy!
You gotta say in advance when/who the next contest is, my friend is amazing at caricatures and I wanna let him know!
I sure love that drawing of the fat wedding people, but I have no idea who they are. (This is no reflection on your drawing skills--I just don't get out much.) They're like the Anti-Schieles. Beautiful lines.
The shirt is killing me. The colors are merely atrocious, I suppose, but the poorly-matched plaid is an eye crime. Anyone who cuts plaid on the bias and can't match it perfectly in the final construction of the garment must face a firing squad. No exceptions. Hapless wearers of same deserve our compassion.
John, go into your profile options and where it asks for a pic address paste this in:
I cropped it from the pic you posted for you. Hopefully that helps.
And nice Judes everyone!
its time for some john k caricatures
I see Scarlett Johansson in the beauties one and Demi Moore in the bitches but the others are giving me heck! Nice work. I've got to start uploading crap.
A long time ago I caught a glimpse of a slab n' ernie cartoon. i don't know if it was ever finished or formally released but what i saw of it was pretty funny. it involved some pretty stiff urination. did this ever see the light of day, John?
This blog is a treasure. Keep up the good work.
%$@#&*@^$&*@...missed it again, i will enter one of these
heh, You look like you are in your 20's. What kind of Vitamins are you taking?
How do you bring women to your house?!
I tried to put a picture in my profile but it only appears when you click the profile.
Why isn't it on the main page at the top right?
Now your picture is up there. You prob'ly just needed to refresh it or something. But everyone knows those photos are from the stone age, and you're a grown man now! Put up a cool, elderly looking picture, with ear-hair and stubble and all those things you love.
OK, it's there now.
Maybe if I wore pants that won't stay up by themselves I would be more up to date with modern technology!
actually the pics are from yesterday
1) Bodacious Scarlett Johanson & ?
2) ? & Demi Moore(maybe?)
3) ??
God damn celebrities. Aesome drawings!
Sly picture of yourself there, pal. Very cool shirt! It's good to see somebody else over the age of eight with a rack of toys.
Hey John, do a post of evolution! Show us some work from when you first started college, and jump through the years. That'd be cool.
> actually the pics are from yesterday
Oh! I saw you once a long time ago, and remembered (wrongly?) that you were prematurely gray-headed .. instead Doc Savage-colored. Am I crazy?
Yeah, he looks younger in that picture alright...but for some reason the glasses in his other pictures (or something else) makes him look older (I think it also has to do with not smiling)... I bet you if he did not smile in this pic, he would look a bit older...just a guess..
Good pictures, ahh, I can't draw (even though I took an Art 1 class in High School), but if you want a quick laugh, look at my work: http://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan1small9wo.jpg http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan10001small8sw.jpg And uhh...if you looked at those pictures, sorry for disturbing you... :)
Interesting collection of Hanna-Barbera assorted stuff, John....
Awesome profile picture!
John K caricature coming soon! Stay tooned!
Hmm, now let's see here:
1. Scareltt Johanson, Hilary Duff
2.Drew Barrymore, Demi Moore
3. Phillip seymore Hoffamn and Meryl Streep?
The first photo I ever saw of you was the Spumco crew photo in Wild Cartoon Kingdom (1993?). You had that big beard and glasses and everyone looked like they were having a ball. I thought, "I need to do that! I wanna have fun!"
'Course back then I thought all animation studios were run like
"The Duck Factory".
Your buddy,
Jorge got everyone but the last 2...
Is that Billy Joel in the last one?
Funny looking, maybe, but I'd kill for hair like that...
Tough. Paul Giamatti? No, not him. By the way I loved the way you made Demi Moore look as BOTH herself and a chimp!
I'm getting a Fred Durst vibe from that last one, but I'm not sure...
Now THAT'S what I call a SHIRT!
I wish I could draw.
Fattie receiving the ring looks like Winona Judd.
Other than that guess, I have no idea who the two are.
I'm finally stumped.
>> Maybe if I wore pants that won't stay up by themselves I would be more up to date with modern technology!
Bah hahahaha!
Good one.
MMMM... I think you are yodeling in that profile picture Mr. K....
Awsome picture John,
Bye the way, Will Eddie Fitzgerald be posting on here soon or have a blog ?
How long has he worked at Spumco ?
And is there any advise you can give me for cartoon animation/writting/direction, etc. ?
Thank You, Keep your blog blogging, It's one of the best sites on the net for me.
_ Eric :)
Beautiful caricatures!
I thought scarlet was charlize theron.. drew barrimore, demi moore look good. The last one has me baffled.
Damn. You're a lot cuter than I remember you being. Maybe my tastes have changed just a little.
NEWS HEADLINE: DIVERS DISCOVER FURRY BLOND CRUSTACEAN Holy crap! This thing is BORN to be on television! Scientists just named it KIWA HIRSUTA and you've got to see it to believe it! Check it out on AOL news right now!
Jude law is so creepy.
That guy is funny looking.
(I laugh in Spanich)
i think i saw you at moe's on riverside last night.
Hi John, Youa re welcome!
I love all of your cartoons!
And I admire you, I told you that I wants to be like you someday! Youa re a wonderful artist!!
I`m so happy to finally tell this! I was having this comment in my heart, and now I`m telling this and I`m felling very well!
Thankiu for always bring me a smile with your cartoons :)
Other thing.. YOU ARE SO CUTE!! XD
The last two are Garth Brooks proposing to Trisha Yearwood.
The last two are Garth Brooks proposing to Trisha Yearwood.
You're absolutely right.
And that is Trisha Yearwood I see now.
I still ain't gettin' Garth. But what do I know.
what's with all these girls saying you're cute? I didn't know there were cartoonist groupies.
Prematurely gray? Like the guy in this photo?:
Do you work out, John?
Erin Says...
I see Scarlett Johansson,Demi Moore & Drew Barrymore there.
Teehee, the clothes are a dead giveaway that those "new" photos of John are from the 1970's :)
1. Scarlet Johannson & Hillary Duff
2. Drew Barrymore & Demi Moore
3. To me it looks like Vince Vaughn and Mrs. Garrett from The Fact of Life (as well as a maid from the first season of Diff'rent Strokes) but I doubt it.
Also, about your photograph, is that red thing beside your head a Teletubbie? And did you win the Golden Nipple Award at some point?
Teehee, the clothes are a dead giveaway that those "new" photos of John are from the 1970's :)
No way, what about the photos in the Traumas post? He's with Katie Rice, who's about my age, and look at his clothes! He looks kinda young in the pictures above, but not that much younger than the ones that we know are recent for sure.
Damn! I never would have guessed those last two! Good eye, anonymous!
Man, that Kiwa Hirsuta is one cool looking fish!
John K. will be INSPIRED by my work! Not...ok, this is off topic...but here's some funny stuff I made. http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan100016oq.jpg http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan10002small7tx.jpg (this one is rather interesting if you ask me) http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan100034hw.jpg These are so bad, yet I think I would like to see more stuff like this from cartoonists (not necessarily Spumco, since they already have a set style of drawing characters). Uhh, just don't comment on this post, lol...I'm just trying to entertain others since I'm bored (By the way, this will probably be my last post on this site...I have other things to do...sorry all for my craziness/etc.).
Hey everyone let's start the John K. caricature contest already. Let's show the man how much we appreciate him talking to us and answering our questions with our warped versions of him. I'll get the ball rolling.
My Attempt
Looks like Garth Brooks and Trisha Yearwood for the last photo. Am I right?
>> Lori said...
Looks like Garth Brooks and Trisha Yearwood for the last photo. Am I right?
you have an eagle eye, Lori!
No way, what about the photos in the Traumas post? He's with Katie Rice, who's about my age, and look at his clothes! He looks kinda young in the pictures above, but not that much younger than the ones that we know are recent for sure.
So he just shaved, dyied his hair blond and starting working out?
is the last one Celine Dion and her grizled husband?
Garth is a good guess tho thats my second choice.
that Demi Moore is awesome!
Yeah, John looked like he was way over 30 back in the day when he had grey hair and a beard. But now, He looks so young. It's like he went back through time or something. He know looks younger that before. He's like going backwards. It's Funny.
Please excuse my spelling errors.
sorry again about my spelling error
I the word in my last post, I ment
oops, wrong post
Yeah, John looked like he was way over 30 back in the day when he had grey hair and a beard. But now, He looks so young. It's like he went back through time or something. He know looks younger that before. He's like going backwards. It's Funny.
I am pretty sure it has something to do with Satan ;)
I've gotta look in here more often.
I keep missin' the draw him, her, this,that.
Fun stuff.
I really enjoyed the Angelina with the notes.
Reminds me of how hirschfeld took notes for his theater pieces.
Drew and Demi are superb.