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Volume 13, Number 4—April 2007
Hantavirus and Arenavirus Antibodies in Persons with Occupational Rodent Exposure, North America
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Author affiliations: *University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas, USA; †Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia, USA;
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EID | Fulhorst CF, Milazzo ML, Armstrong LR, Childs JE, Rollin PE, Khabbaz R, et al. Hantavirus and Arenavirus Antibodies in Persons with Occupational Rodent Exposure, North America. Emerg Infect Dis. 2007;13(4):532. https://dx.doi.org/10.3201/eid1304.061509 |
AMA | Fulhorst CF, Milazzo ML, Armstrong LR, et al. Hantavirus and Arenavirus Antibodies in Persons with Occupational Rodent Exposure, North America. Emerging Infectious Diseases. 2007;13(4):532. doi:10.3201/eid1304.061509. |
APA | Fulhorst, C. F., Milazzo, M. L., Armstrong, L. R., Childs, J. E., Rollin, P. E., Khabbaz, R....Ksiazek, T. G. (2007). Hantavirus and Arenavirus Antibodies in Persons with Occupational Rodent Exposure, North America. Emerging Infectious Diseases, 13(4), 532. https://dx.doi.org/10.3201/eid1304.061509. |
Rodents are the principal hosts of Sin Nombre virus, 4 other hantaviruses known to cause hantavirus pulmonary syndrome in North America, and the 3 North American arenaviruses. Serum samples from 757 persons who had worked with rodents in North America and handled neotomine or sigmodontine rodents were tested for antibodies against Sin Nombre virus, Whitewater Arroyo virus, Guanarito virus, and lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus. Antibodies against Sin Nombre virus were found in 4 persons, against Whitewater Arroyo virus or Guanarito virus in 2 persons, and against lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus in none. These results suggest that risk for infection with hantaviruses or arenaviruses usually is low in persons whose occupations entail close physical contact with neotomine or sigmodontine rodents in North America.
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome (HPS) is a frequently fatal rodentborne viral zoonosis. Seven species in the virus family Bunyaviridae, genus Hantavirus (1), have been causally associated with HPS: Sin Nombre virus (SNV), New York virus (NYV), Black Creek Canal virus (BCCV), Bayou virus (BAYV), and Choclo virus (CHOV) in North America (2–6), and Andes virus (ANDV) and Laguna Negra virus (LANV) in South America (7,8).
The virus family Arenaviridae, genus Arenavirus, includes 3 North American species and 14 South American species (9). The North American species are Bear Canyon virus (BCNV), Tamiami virus (TAMV), and Whitewater Arroyo virus (WWAV). The South American species include Guanarito virus (GTOV), Junin virus (JUNV), Machupo virus (MACV), and Sabiá virus (SABV). These 4 South American species have been causally associated with severe human disease in Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, and Brazil, respectively (10). The human health importance of the North American arenavirus species has not been rigorously investigated.
Specific members of the subfamilies Neotominae and Sigmodontinae in the rodent family Cricetidae (11) are the principal hosts (reservoirs) of the hantaviruses known to cause HPS in North America and the 3 North American arenaviruses. For example, principal hosts and their respective viruses include: the deer mouse (Peromyscus maniculatus) in Canada and the western United States, SNV (12,13); the white-footed mouse (Peromyscus leucopus) in the northeastern United States, NYV (3); the hispid cotton rat (Sigmodon hispidus) in Florida, BCCV and TAMV (4,14); the marsh rice rat (Oryzomys palustris) in the southeastern United States, BAYV (15–17); the fulvous colilargo (Oligoryzomys fulvescens) in Panama, CHOV (6); the California mouse (Peromyscus californicus) in California, BCNV (18); and the white-throated woodrat (Neotoma albigula) in New Mexico, WWAV (19). P. maniculatus, P. leucopus, P. californicus, and N. albigula are members of the Neotominae and S. hispidus, O. palustris, and O. fulvescens are members of the Sigmodontinae (11).
It is assumed that humans usually become infected with hantaviruses and arenaviruses by inhalation of aerosolized droplets of urine, saliva, or respiratory secretions from infected rodents. Other means of infection include, but are not limited to, inhalation of dust or other organic matter contaminated with infectious virus and contact of infectious materials with mucous membranes.
The purpose of this study was to assess the risk for hantavirus and arenavirus infections among persons who work in North America and have close physical contact with neotomine rodents or sigmodontine rodents through their occupations. These persons include mammalogists, wildlife biologists, scientists whose research concerns the ecology of rodent-borne zoonoses, and pest control operators.
Study Population
The persons in this study were participants in a survey conducted in 1994 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The primary objective of the survey was to assess the risk for hantavirus infections in persons whose occupations expose them to rodents. Participation in the survey was voluntary and entailed completion of a self-administered questionnaire and donation of a small volume of venous blood. Most of the 995 participants were enrolled at 1 of the following: American Society of Mammalogists meeting (Washington, DC, 1994), Wildlife Disease Association meeting (Pacific Grove, California, 1994), Southwestern Association of Naturalists meeting (Emporia, Kansas, 1994), Wildlife Society meeting (Wenatchee, Washington, 1994), 16th Vertebrate Pest Conference (Santa Clara, California, 1994), and Colorado Pest Control Meeting (Denver, Colorado, 1994). The other participants mailed their completed questionnaires and serum samples directly to CDC.
The questionnaire included detailed questions about previous exposure to rodents, use of personal protective equipment to minimize exposure to rodent excretions and secretions, and any previous occurrence of a severe febrile illness that included shortness of breath. The lifetime number of rodents handled by a person was measured categorically: I (1–99), II (100–499), III (500–999), IV (1,000–9,999), V (10,000–49,999), and VI (≥50,000). Use of gloves, protective masks equipped with high efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters, and protective eyewear also was measured categorically: always (>90% of the time), usually (50%–90% of the time), sometimes (10%–49% of the time), seldom (<10% of the time), or never.
This study was restricted to the 757 participants in the CDC survey who had a history of exposure to rodents in North America and a history of occupational exposure to deer mice, white-footed mice, California mice, woodrats (Neotoma spp.), other neotomine rodents, cotton rats (Sigmodon spp.), oryzomyine rodents (Oryzomys spp. or Oligoryzomys spp.), or other sigmodontine rodents. Of the persons included in the study, 699 had worked with rodents only in North America. The 58 others had worked with rodents in North America and in South America. The geographic distribution of exposure to rodents in North America was Canada (n = 36), Alaska (n = 8), the contiguous United States or District of Columbia (n = 726, Table 1), Mexico (n = 91), Guatemala (n = 8), Belize (n = 3), Honduras (n = 3), Costa Rica (n = 21), Nicaragua (n = 4), and Panama (n = 8). Of the persons included in the study, 468 (61.8%) had worked with rodents in >1 state within the contiguous United States.
Persons included in the study had worked with rodents from 1 month to 65 years (mean 12.5 years). The total number of rodents handled by any 1 person ranged from category I (1–99) to category VI (≥50,000); the median was IV (1,000–9,999). Of the 757 persons in the study, 751 (99.2%) had handled deer mice, white-footed mice, cotton rats, oryzomymine rodents, California mice, or woodrats (Table 2).
HPS was first recognized as a clinical entity in 1993 in the southwestern United States (20). From March 1, 1993, through September 19, 2006, a total of 453 laboratory-confirmed HPS cases were reported to CDC from the contiguous United States (www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hanta/hps/noframes/epislides/episl7.htm). Of these, 259 (57.2%) were reported from 6 states in the southwestern United States: Colorado (n = 51), New Mexico (n = 71), Utah (n = 25), Arizona (n = 49), Nevada (n = 18), and California (n = 45). Sin Nombre virus is the only virus known to cause HPS in these 6 states. In this study, 387 (51.1%) persons had worked with rodents in Colorado (n = 124), New Mexico (n = 111), Utah (n = 65), Arizona (n = 90), Nevada (n = 33), or California (n = 169) and had handled deer mice. The total number of deer mice handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to VI (≥50,000); the median was II (100–499).
The geographic range of BAYV includes Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas (5,15–17), BCCV has been found only in Florida (4), and the geographic range of NYV includes New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island (3,21,22). In this study, 22 persons had worked with rodents in Georgia (n = 1), Louisiana (n = 2), or Texas (n = 20) and handled oryzomyine rodents. The total number of oryzomyine rodents handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to IV (1,000–9,999); the median was I (1–99). Fourteen persons had worked with rodents in Florida and handled cotton rats. The total number of cotton rats handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to IV (1,000–9,999); the median was II (100–499). Eighty-one persons had worked with rodents in New York (n = 45), Pennsylvania (n = 42), or Rhode Island (n = 5) and handled white-footed mice. The total number of white-footed mice handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to V (10,000–49,999); the median was II (100–499).
BCNV virus has been found only in California (18) and TAMV only in Florida (14); the geographic range of WWAV and other arenaviruses naturally associated with woodrats (Neotoma spp.) includes Arizona, California, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah, and Texas (19,23–27). In this study, 31 persons had worked with rodents in California and handled California mice (P. californicus). The total number of California mice handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to III (500–999); the median was I (1–99). As indicated previously, 14 persons had worked with rodents in Florida and handled cotton rats. Three hundred and thirty-three persons had worked with rodents in Arizona (n = 87), California (n = 130), Colorado (n = 76), New Mexico (n = 101), Oklahoma (n = 40), Utah (n = 59), or Texas (n = 101) and handled woodrats. The total number of woodrats handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to V (10,000–49,999); the median was I (1–99).
Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus (LCMV) is the only Old World arenavirus species that is enzootic in North America. The house mouse (Mus musculus) is a member of the subfamily Murinae, family Muridae (11) and the principal host of LCMV. In this study, 526 (69.5%) persons had worked with house mice. The total number of house mice handled by persons in this group ranged from I (1–99) to VI (>50,000); the median was I (1–99).
Of the 757 persons in this study, 735 (97.1%) had worked with rodents before the discovery of HPS in 1993; during that time, 504 (68.6%) of them never or infrequently wore personal protective equipment (gloves, a protective mask equipped with HEPA filters, and protective eyewear) when handling rodents. In contrast, only 267 (36.3%) of these 735 persons never or infrequently wore personal protective equipment when handling rodents after the discovery of HPS. Use of personal protective equipment by the other persons in the study both before and after the discovery of HPS depended on the type of equipment.
All unique identifying information was removed from the serum samples before they were tested for antibodies. Furthermore, all unique identifying information was removed from the computer (electronic) records before analysis of the demographic and serologic data.
Antibody Assays
We tested the serum samples for immunoglobulin G (IgG) against SNV, WWAV, GTOV, and LCMV by using ELISA, as described (24,28). The SNV antigen was an Escherichia coli–expressed recombinant SNV nucleocapsid protein that is highly cross-reactive with other neotomine rodent-associated hantaviruses and with sigmodontine rodent-associated hantaviruses in the ELISA used in this study (T.G. Ksiazek, unpub. data). The control (comparison) antigen for the SNV IgG ELISA was an E. coli–expressed recombinant protein that is antigenically unrelated to the SNV nucleocapsid protein. The arenavirus antigens were detergent lysates of Vero E6 cells infected with WWAV strain AV 9310135, GTOV strain INH-95551, or LCMV strain Armstrong. WWAV is highly cross-reactive with BCNV and TAMV in the ELISA used in this study (M.L. Milazzo, unpub. data). Collectively, WWAV, GTOV, and LCMV represent the 3 major antigen groups in the family Arenaviridae, as defined by ELISA (19). The control antigens for the arenavirus IgG assays were detergent lysates of uninfected Vero E6 cells. The working concentrations of the SNV, GTOV, and LCMV antigens and the corresponding control antigens were determined by checkerboard titration against convalescent-phase serum samples from humans infected with SNV, GTOV, and LCMV, respectively. The working concentrations of the WWAV antigen and the corresponding control antigen were determined by checkerboard titration against a mouse ascitic fluid against WWAV strain AV 9310135. Serial 4-fold dilutions (from 1:100 through 1:6,400) of each serum sample were tested against the 4 test antigens and 4 control antigens. Antibody bound to antigen was detected by using a goat anti-human IgG (gamma chain–specific) peroxidase conjugate (Kirkegaard and Perry Laboratories, Gaithersburg, MD, USA). Optical densities (OD) at 405 nm (reference = 490 nm) were measured with a Dynex MRX II microplate reader (Dynatech Industries, Inc., McLean, VA, USA). The adjusted OD (AOD) of a serum-antigen reaction was the OD of the well coated with the test antigen minus the OD of the well coated with the control antigen. A sample was considered positive if the AOD at 1:100 was ≥0.200, the AOD at 1:400 was ≥0.200, and the sum of the AODs for the series of 4-fold dilutions (from 1:100 through 1:6,400) was ≥0.900. These criteria for positivity were based on the results of previous work with the test antigens and control antigens. The antibody titer of a positive sample was the reciprocal of the highest dilution of that sample for which the AOD was ≥0.200.
Antibodies against SNV were detected in 4 (0.5%) of the 757 persons in the study. Antibody titers were 1,600 in 2 persons and ≥6,400 in the other 2 persons. The total years worked with rodents and the lifetime number of rodents handled by the 4 antibody-positive persons were 9.0–30.0 (mean 21.3) and IV (1,000–9,999) to V (10,000–49,999), respectively. Two of the antibody-positive persons had worked with rodents only within the contiguous United States (specifically Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and/or Texas), 1 had worked with rodents in Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Texas, and Mexico, and 1 had worked with rodents in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Mexico, Costa Rica, and Argentina. All 4 antibody-positive persons had handled deer mice, white-footed mice, other neotomine rodents, cotton rats, and other sigmodontine rodents. Those who had worked in South Carolina or Argentina also had handled oryzomyine rodents. All 4 antibody-positive persons reported that they had never worn a protective mask or protective eyewear when handling rodents before the discovery of HPS. One reported having been hospitalized for an illness characterized by fever, headache, and severe shortness of breath (symptoms suggestive of HPS). This person had worked with rodents only within the contiguous United States.
Antibodies against WWAV or GTOV were detected in 2 (0.3%) of the 757 persons in the study. Antibodies against WWAV (antibody titer = 1,600) but not GTOV were detected in a person who had worked with rodents in Texas and Wisconsin and handled woodrats, other neotomine rodents, and sigmodontine rodents. Antibodies against GTOV (antibody titer = 1,600) but not WWAV were detected in a person who had worked with rodents in Pennsylvania, Utah, and Wyoming and handled white-footed mice, other neotomine rodents, cotton rats, and other sigmodontine rodents. The lifetime number of rodents handled by the 2 antibody-positive persons were III (500–999) and IV (1,000–9,999), respectively. Both reported that they had never worn a protective mask or protective eyewear when handling rodents before the discovery of HPS. Antibodies against LCMV were found in none of the 757 persons in this study.
Previously published studies found no antibodies against SNV in 583 persons who worked in Arizona or New Mexico in occupations that potentially exposed them to rodents or rodent droppings (29,30) and no antibodies against SNV or WWAV in 72 persons in California whose occupations entailed close physical contact with rodents (31). Limited seroprevalence studies found antibodies against LCMV in up to 5.1% of healthy persons in the United States (32,33). If one discounts fatal infections and assumes that IgG against SNV and other hantaviruses is measurable many years after recovery from infection, the results of this study indicate that the risk for infection with hantaviruses usually is low in persons whose occupations entail close physical contact with neotomine rodents or sigmodontine rodents in North America. Similarly, the study results indicate that the risk for infection with arenaviruses usually is low in persons whose occupations entail close physical contact with neotomine rodents or sigmodontine rodents in North America
Some hantaviruses and arenaviruses appear to be restricted to small areas within the geographic ranges of the rodent species that serve as their natural reservoirs. For example, BCCV and TAMV have been found only in southern Florida (4,14), yet the geographic range of S. hispidus extends from Arizona, Nebraska, and Virginia through northeastern Mexico (11). Furthermore, the prevalence of infected rodents can vary widely even in a small area (23,34). Thus, the low prevalence of antibodies against SNV and against the arenaviruses included in this study could be because few of the rodents handled by the 757 persons in the study were infected with a hantavirus or arenavirus. Other explanations for the low prevalence of antibodies against SNV, WWAV, GTOV, and LCMV in this study are because the circumstances under which or the manner in which the rodents were handled did not favor rodent-to-human virus transmission or because tissues, secretions, and excretions from infected rodents are not highly infectious to humans.
Antibodies against SNV were detected in 3 (0.8%) of the 387 persons in this study who had worked with rodents in Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, or California and who had handled deer mice. Antibodies to SNV also were detected in 1 (1.2%) of the 81 persons who had worked in New York, Pennsylvania, or Rhode Island and who had handled white-footed mice. The antibodies against SNV in the 3 antibody-positive persons who had worked in the southwestern United States could be a consequence of infection with SNV. The antibodies against SNV in the person who had worked in Pennsylvania could be a result of infection with NYV.
Of the 453 laboratory-confirmed HPS cases mentioned previously, 160 (35.3%) were fatal. Together, the high case-fatality ratio of HPS in North America, the lack of a vaccine against HPS, and the lack of a specific therapy for HPS should motivate persons to minimize their risk for infection while working in the field, classroom, or laboratory with rodents potentially infected with hantaviruses, especially those viruses known to cause HPS. Published guidelines for safely working with rodents potentially infected with hantaviruses include using protective gloves, respirators fitted with HEPA filters, and protective eyewear (35). None of the 4 persons in the study who were antibody-positive against SNV had worn gloves, masks, or protective eyewear when handling rodents before the discovery of HPS.
The use of personal protective equipment in the field may seem cumbersome. However, 2 recent HPS cases, 1 fatal, underscore the need to use appropriate personal protective equipment and follow recommended safety procedures when working with rodents potentially infected with hantaviruses that have been causally associated with HPS. The fatal case was in a graduate student who was studying the effects of forest management practices on small mammal populations in West Virginia (36). The nonfatal case was in a field technician who was trapping rodents as part of a forest health study in California (37). HPS has been reported in other persons whose occupations entailed close physical contact with wild rodents (38,39).
The person in this study who was antibody-positive against WWAV had worked with rodents in Texas and handled woodrats. Antibodies against WWAV strain AV 9310135 have been found in southern plains woodrats (Neotoma micropus) captured in western Texas and in northern Texas (M.L. Milazzo, unpub. data), and arenaviruses antigenically closely related to WWAV strain AV 9310135 have been isolated from southern plains woodrats captured in southern Texas (27,40). Thus, the antibodies against WWAV in this person could be a result of an arenavirus infection acquired from a woodrat captured in Texas.
When examined by antibody-antigen binding assays such as the ELISA, GTOV is distinct from the 3 North American arenaviruses and highly cross-reactive with JUNV, MACV, and SABV (19). Thus, the antibodies against GTOV in the person in this study could be a result of an arenavirus infection acquired while traveling in South America. Alternatively, the antibodies could be a result of infection with a North American arenavirus that is antigenically more closely related to GTOV than to BCNV, TAMV, or WWAV.
Recently, antibodies against GTOV but not WWAV or LCMV were detected in 3 peromyscine rodents (Peromyscus species) captured in southern Mexico (M.L. Milazzo, unpub. data). The antibodies against GTOV in these 3 rodents are the first evidence that an arenavirus antigenically distinct from BCNV, TAMV, WWAV, and LCMV exists in North America and support the idea that the infection in the antibody-positive person in this study was a result of an arenavirus infection acquired in North America.
Dr Fulhorst is an associate professor at University of Texas Medical Branch. His research interests include the epidemiology and ecology of rodentborne hantaviruses and arenaviruses native to the Americas.
National Institutes of Health grant AI-41435 provided financial support for the portion of this study conducted by M.L.M. and C.F.F.
This study was approved by the Committee for the Protection of Human Subjects, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Written informed consent was obtained from all participants in accordance with Title 45, Part 46 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
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- Table 1. Occupational exposure of 726 persons to sigmodontine or neotomine rodents within the contiguous United States
- Table 2. Work-related exposure of 757 persons to neotomine and sigmodontine rodents
DOI: 10.3201/eid1304.061509
1Current affiliation: Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut, USA
2Current affiliation: University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas, USA
Table of Contents – Volume 13, Number 4—April 2007
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text:
Waterford — Police arrested a New London man who they say stabbed another person during a fight Tuesday night at the Family Bowl on Boston Post Road.
Around 11 p.m. police received a report of a fight in the bar area of the establishment, police said. When police arrived, they discovered a victim with superficial stab wounds to his abdomen. The victim refused medical treatment, police said.
The alleged suspect, German Gonzalez, 32, of 99 Willetts Ave., saw police and took off on a motor scooter through the parking lot and crashed on Route 1. He was not injured.
Gonzalez was charged with second-degree assault, first-degree reckless endangerment, engaging an officer in pursuit and possession of a controlled substance.
Gonzalez is being held on a $25,000 bond, pending his arraignment today in New London Superior Court.
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5 | Highlights: New London 42, Trumbull 36 in Class LL championship |

subset: commoncrawl


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This week I'm really excited to launch a special new column for the summer. Now that the bulk of our crazy season has passed (see you next year, ICFF, NSS, Surtex and offsite shows), we've had more time to sit and talk around our communal desk, talking about everything and anything. Some days I wish I could record the conversations that take place in our office, because they raise some really interesting topics and always make me want to open them up to a wider audience. I thought about trying to turn them into a round table radio show, but I thought it would be fun to try them as an open-post format, where everyone reading could comment. So once a week we'll share the biggest issue or topic we're talking about and give you the chance to chime in to share your opinions, ideas, thoughts and suggestions. Discussions will range from trade issues and design-world thoughts to more personal conversations and life questions. Today we're tackling something inspired by last month's trade shows: the challenge of pushing trends forward while meeting real world demands.
I've often left trade shows disappointed by the lack of "new"-ness. The feeling of seeing more of the same was one of the main reasons we didn't cover the Stationery Show as intensely this year and rather than stay disappointed, I thought we should talk about what the reasons for that might have been. My concern has always been wondering what the real challenges are facing an indie paper-goods designer. Do the trends we love, consume and then move on from not move as quickly in the retail world? For example, if everyone's tired of chevron and ombre, does that mean that those cards aren't selling anymore? My hunch is that retail moves more slowly that the trend and taste-demands of the online community. So while we're ready to see something new and fresh, the buying market is still demanding more of the past year's trends.
What do think? As designers, what are the real challenges when it comes to making new work on a timely basis. Is it costly? Not time effective, or is it something you DO do regularly and find a way to fit into your collections? I'm really curious to learn more about the realities of being an independent designer (paper or otherwise) and how you balance those with the demands of an online audience that always wants to see MORE and NEW as soon as possible. xo, grace
I think of the main current issues is that large companies are cashing in on the Designer Maker look and turning it into a trend. This would be fine except that that they are mass producing products with the look so they can sell them at costs designer makers just can't compete with. This is certainly the case in the UK.
When I was a handmaker to sell (had my own indie children's clothing label) I always found I got tired of making a particular style or idea before my customers really warmed to it. It takes quite a while for the public in general (not trendsetters or early adopters) to get comfortable with something new. As creatives we want to move on to out next idea, often to hastily to really profit from it, and it can be frustrating when you've moved on that the public is going gaga for something that was in your collection months/years ago.
I didn't participate in NSS this year largely because I have come to feel that model, and probably, large trade-shows in general, may not be the right fit for the things I would like to be making, and the way in which I'd like to be connecting. I needed space to re-form my ideas. Nailing it all down for a trade show– "committing" — was not what I wanted to do, deep down. I doubt if I will participate again in the future.
Primarily, I wanted to write a comment in support — purely to say that it's nice to see this question asked, and asked here. I'll be interested to see what people have to say.
I work as a buyer for a small design shop (and have experienced the exact same feeling of disappointment that you mention at trade shows, seeing the same old trends repeated over and over). I follow the design world closely, and my theory is that trends flash rapidly through the blogosphere while moving much more slowly in the "real world". I've seen so many customers get excited by trends that are new to them, but which for me are old news (since I've seen them fifty times over on every design blog). I'm guessing that designers to some extent have the same constraints, when it comes down to it you need to be able to sell (and not just to a limited, design-forward audience) to make it!
I love this idea – and think it would be really cool as a virtual video chat – although honestly I wouldn't contribute as much that way. ;)
Like you I am able to spot trends a mile away and am always super excited about what is coming up next. However, I have found that at least as far as design/interior trends it seems that the general public is about five years past the time I feel like they should be "over it". In the past I've always leery of decorating or designing in a way that is too trendy but I'm starting to realize just how long trends last and embracing the trends more these days because they do seem to have such longevity.
Also, as much as I like creating new products I find that the newer ideas that I am excited about don't always translate to sales of those goods – until again – it catches on, years later. Also, a lot of my bestsellers are goods that have been in my line a looong time. It's weird. I'm ready to move forward but don't think the consumer audience is.
I think designers are super cautious about introducing innovative new ideas because we all know that if we aren't able to promote it and bring it to market quickly and effectively it will most likely get ripped off by a larger company who will saturate the marketplace before we've even had a chance to.
Also, at my Rock & Shop events I've found that though people like to see emerging trends that doesn't necessarily equate to what they are buying.Participating in trade shows is a very expensive and time consuming endeavor and frankly if I were putting forth that much time and investment I'd probably focus on what consumers are buying as well to make sure participating was worth my while.
I did my first trade show last month (NSS) and balancing trend vs. new at a show is a challenge. My aesthetic as a designer does not look like anyone else's work, but enticing press or buyers to take a chance on something new, instead of something proven, is difficult. I saw many people walking the aisles with a list of booths to visit that did not look at their surroundings. Seeking out something new may require a little more work or time than some people are able to give. But I do believe if you design or create art that represents who you are, trends or uniformity, will not matter in your journey.
I'm an artist. To stay true to my practice it's important for me to work an idea through so that discoveries made in the making lead to a natural next step. I LOVE looking at what others are doing , so inspiring, but my innovative pace is what it is. Online trends move too quickly for me to process let alone try to keep up with.
This is an issue that we mull over often in our studio. We are glad you brought this up. The following response is just our opinion and personal perspective as designers and printmakers that produce prints in-house. We're interested in how other people are dealing with this as well.
Being a creative business owner is riddled with challenges, especially when there is always a new way to navigate. There are so many more people to please, different markets to cater to, a different site to get your images going viral. You want to release new work often, but you worry if your shops will want to carry it. There are also followers and blogs that want to see you constantly producing work. You need to be fresh, consistent, creatively open but curated, and competitive. You need to have impeccable timing.
Our two sources of income are retail stores and our online retail shop, but the speed at which those two operate are very different. This poses a challenge. Even though they are different, everyone wants to be the first to know about something, the first to SEE. So who do you show first? We try to work as fast as possible and react to whats changing on the internet. However, it is very difficult for a designer who is also producing their own work in-house to keep pace with aggregation, blogs, social media, and rising demand from online and physical markets.
I think what has kept us sane through all of the challenges of running this business, is the desire to make work that makes US happy. Staying true to what you know how to do, and working hard to do it well. Also remembering that old saying that you can't please everyone all of the time. That helps too!
Very interesting discussions. From the point of view of a consumer with a house already full of loved things, I find I am pleased to look at pretty things online, but would have no space to put anything. The rare occasion I do purchase something special, it practically has to speak to my emotions, rather than be trendy. But in my 20s, it really was more about trends.
Thanks for bringing up this important discussion. I exhibited at the NSS for the second time this year and believe that staying new and innovative in your art and product design involves being aware of the trends (past, current, and future), while also being willing to follow your own path and stay true to your vision. I think some designers may attempt to put their own spin on a proven trend or aesthetic that they know has mass appeal, perhaps in an effort to stay safe or to appeal to a wide array of buyers, yet their attempts end up looking like "more of the same." Echoing Cyn's comment above, I agree that there seemed to be many buyers attending NSS this year solely to reconnect with existing accounts and not seeking out fresh talent, which can contribute to a "more of the same" feeling as well.
Sarah Tolzmann's addressed a similar topic on her blog this week that is definitely worth reading. http://www.notetoselfblog.com/note_to_self/2013/06/advice-04.html
As a designer, I have to constantly ask myself if I am pushing myself outside comfortable boundaries, exploring where my inspiration comes from, and staying true to my own style. -
I don't want to say that I ignore trends, because I am aware of them and I am sure they influence me in some way, but I don't make anything to follow a trend. That is partly because I make things out of upcycled and vintage materials and so what I make is dictated by what materials I find to use. Maybe upcycled is the new trend, but I've been doing it all my life!
What a great topic! I wonder if one of the reason trends last as long as they do, is that once they hit the mainstream marketplace, they've already been "hot" in the indie community for quite a while. Just a thought…
As much as I would love to fit in with the trends, it usually only happens to me by chance- I can't just make a design because it's the "new great thing". Like with my cat pillow cases- I truly just love cats, and their grace and beauty inspires me daily. So, it's difficult for me to design with trends in mind- I just need to follow my own interests and try to be as unique as possible. That is really tough to do in this day and age. I always do multiple, quatriple searches on the Internet before I commit to a new design. The last thing I would ever want to do is accidentally copy someone else's design, or do something that's already been done a million times.
For me, trying out a new design is really not so much about the cost. Since I'm able to keep the majority of my production in-house, I try to experiment whenever I have time. The creative ideas definitely have their ebb and flow, but I'm trying to seize on them as much as possible (sketchbooks are key)! Of course it's always disappointing when you really believe in something you've put out there, and it doesn't do as well as you hoped, or people don't respond the way you thought they would. Unless you are playing to trends, you're always going to be taking that chance.
If I do follow any trends, it's been to gear my work towards a more home-based market. I've been able to reach a whole new audience that doesn't necessarily want to wear my t-shirts. That has helped my business a lot, as well as my creativity. Before starting my home goods line, I was actually feeling really stuck, and I started to get a little upset when people asked me when I was going to make new designs! Now I feel like I'm on the right track, more than ever, and I'm really energized this year!
For people that want to see "more and new" as much as possible- well, I know even though I've had a design out there for a while, it will still be new to a huge audience- it's just a matter of getting my work out there for them to see. I try to keep that in mind when I'm feeling tired of a design, even if it's always done really well for me. I really think it is also up to the big Indie craft shows to bring more new to people and the marketplace in general. I've been rejected from all of the majors repeatedly, and yet I see the same thing there year after year. I always ask myself, "Why wouldn't they want more variety? I would!"
Thanks for putting this question out there, Grace! I am always hoping to see more new-ness, that's why I love your blog!
Love this column idea Grace and everyone's thoughtful comments! I used to have a boss that always said "People don't buy cool. They buy pretty." As a designer this was incredibly frustrating but giving customers things that make them feel pretty, or loved started to feel a lot different. I think beyond just new trends and products we find that what the online design community gravitates to and what customers end up buying vary wildly. The images that circulate with online audiences tend to be editorial and trend forward but not necessarily practical or affordable. The products that end up doing really well for us are often the 'hero' pieces that work day in and day out for many different kinds of people. At first this was really surprising and kind of underwhelming but after connecting with our customers one on one we realized that creating something that will live in their home is such an honor. This doesn't really help the online communities need for something new but made us more excited to offer a larger variety of products besides just the newest. Balancing the newness that gets you excited about your work with things that people will buy and love is all part of the fun- as long as there isn't the expectation that everyone will love everything.
We participated in the NSS for the first time this year. First Show. First NSS. Lots of Firsts. We are not in "paper" but found a niche at the show and felt like it was the right place for us. BUT the bigger issue for us is that the classics, that sell over and over, underwrite our outliers; the risks. Every piece in our line is there because we wanted it and couldn't find it on the market, so we made it ourselves. And invariably, the beautiful walnut pieces, which grow glossier with age, sell and sell and sell. Because who gets tired of looking at beautiful walnut! And we get to keep collaborating with new artist and creating something "seasonal" and keep our creative juices flowing because there are just enough like minded people out there who want to try something edgier. But it's the classics that keep us in business. Thank goodness!
What a great conversation! When I worked for a home decor company one of the large fabric vendors I worked with shared their research that only 5% of the population has a "decorating IQ", meaning the early adopters, trend seekers etc. The general populace and majority of consumers are months if not longer behind the proverbial eight ball. Most people need to see a trend evolve to the mainstream before they feel comfortable buying in- that their friends won't laugh and they wont regret the purchase.
This makes it very difficult in a fashion based business, particularly with the proliferation of market exposure via the internet, to know how much on trend or newness is viable at a given time. You almost have to use that product to show you're on your game without expecting sales to justify the investment for a little while. To get editorial coverage you need new and innovative, but customers are just getting comfortable with your last couple lines (after they see it in Pottery Barn or all over Pinterest).
Personally, I believe only design with provenance is immune from this phenomena. With so much available to consumers, they need to bond with the story behind the product be it the maker, materials or history.
As always, many thanks for your intuitive and insightful topics.
I own a small food business. A lot of the challenges discussed here about design trends also apply to food trends too, especially the time lag between digital trends and the general public's awareness and interest. It can be really frustrating when my bread-and-butter products are some of our oldest, and new, interesting stuff is seen as 'weird' or risky (especially for food retailers that we supply). One thing we've done which has helped is creating a small loyalty club for our customers who are open-minded and interested in trying new stuff; they get monthly, small-batch limited edition products. It gives us a chance to play around, get feedback, and sell directly to the public, and inevitably it's those products that get us the most media coverage too.
Yes, great idea for a column and the comments are all fascinating! As an artist, designer and business owner, I have different views with each hat I wear! The artist often comes up with the idea and then later sees it in the blogs as a "trend" and loses interest. The designer in me says "this is what is hot" and wants to fill that need on the part of the buyer, but with a slightly different twist. As a business owner, I see it takes a while for "trends" to catch on.. And yes, by the time they catch on with the general public, we are sick of it!
I've been on both sides of this challenge: buyer, creator, sales rep…..it is a delicate balance for sure.
1. Manufacturers and artists have the challenge and cost of producing new goods for each show not to mention the cost to participate in shows- booth fees, transportation, styling a booth, food, lodging, etc. it is a costly endeavor for a new Indy designer for sure so sometimes it's cost prohibitive to keep churning out new items. Even well established manufacturers have years they produce less new sku's in an attempt to sell through existing merchandise. ( I think some years this has been the reality)
2. Trends…..another place where you must find that sweet spot of producing new things without being too ahead of the curve. As a buyer and a creator, often times the general public has not embraced the newest trends until a year or two after production or creation of such goods….. So, yes. This is a challenge indeed. As a retailer, the bottom line is that you must sell merchandise so the consumer dictates your re-orders.As a retailer, your shopper is also looking for the latest and greatest and you want to be seen as innovative.
3. Which brings me to this. Twice a year for over twenty years we attended The NY Gift Show for inspiration, trends and ultimately to BUY. We looked to those designers and manufacturers to ignite that fire in us to determine our stories…..what colors were strong? What materials were trending? Who had the greatest new products? . So when those seasons or shows fell flat, so did we.
In the end, it is all about balance. And that's what makes one a success – creating goods with the consumer in mind. Creating things that aren't too over the top, bearing in mind price points that translate to RETAIL all while keeping things fresh.
I see things in the marketplace that we were carrying in our store ten years ago – as soon as I turn my nose up, I am reminded that the consumers are buying these goods or a buyer wouldn't keep re-ordering. It is tough to criticize when it is such a challenge to keep Indy boutiques open…..It starts with the shows and the creators…….it's a vicious circle …the ones ahead of the curve are 20% of the population. The consumers just loving ( and buying) ombré and neon are just gobbling it up so it's going to be around as long as it keeps selling… And so it goes…
Love D*S for posing the question and providing a forum for all of us! Xoxo
Great question and great discussion. I find myself taking notes on many of the comments. I am the owner, buyer and merchandiser of a small folk art shop. All of my products come from another country, Mexico. I don't go to trade shows but actually visit artisans and markets all over the country and purchase directly from them. This is an issue that affects all creative people, wherever they may be. I find this question–new vs traditional– goes through my mind often when I'm in Mexico. I've seen many of the traditional Mexican items and designs for years. What I'm personally attracted to are the new twists on tradition. But like many other retailers/designers/creative people I have to keep a balance of the traditional (displayed in a way that is "pretty") in the shop with the new and unique. There is a subset of customer who loves the quirky and new. I love K's idea of a small loyalty club for those early adopters, keeping in mind that it's the minority of people with a "decorating IQ" and maintaining balance. Mil gracias for the discussion!
I have worked in the design/craft work for almost 35 years. The bigget challenge I have always had is how to make something truly unique and orignal at a price point that people will part with thier hard earned money. If I had not had a partner that for all of these year,s has provided the stable income, this simplay wouldnot have been possible as a career. I work in textiles, weaving, quilting, sewing and every kind of hand work possible and the hours of creation time along with the hours of fabricating time are difficult to price. Stop creating? Never. It is my labor of love. I am fortunate that mypartner is understanding of this need and is willing to support it. I wish I was able ot be self-supporting from my work, but the manufacturing that is done at a fraction of the cost ,when my work has been copied, makes it impossible to be so. I would that it were not so.
You are talking here about the exact thing I am struggling with myself right now. My work is very time intensive and takes a while to be created so the roll out of brand new designs is an infrequent event. Thus in between freshly created work I am scanning and getting ready the tons of artwork I have in my flat files from my days working for large companies attending SURTEX and visiting showrooms when I created huge portfolios of work – most designs of which never got to market because of course only one or two would be chosen. Still I feel the pressure to always be promoting something new to satisfy the immediacy of today's online world. For me the newness comes in the refining of my own style to dovetail with the larger trends that roll along. Thanks for this discussion – it is a challenge but how fantastic that I can now sell directly to the public through print on demand like Society6 and Etsy, and market through Facebook and Pinterest – I think despite the pressures of keeping up, this fast paced, new online world is astonishing and something I longed for in my younger designing days.
Thanks so much for the insight about the NSS this year and last for that matter. I did exhibit because I as well as the person I exhibited with do have a new message and appearance. I talked to many buyers as well who have indicated that they are over the whole cute letterpress look but as you pointed out the market has not caught up yet and it can takes years for that to happen. The model used to be 10 years from uber cool designer to mass market but that was before internet and instant media to help drive the "new".
Had great feedback from the buyers who sought us out and orders from the demographic I wanted to hit. More noodling of designs and messages so look forward to the next installment. -
Quirky gets compliments but very few sales. I have started making smaller and less expensive items to reduce risk. I have also toned down my color palate.
Such an interesting post with great comments. I've only been in business a couple of years (I illustrate and design patterns for my stationery business) and I'm realising that the blogosphere goes at a completely different pace to the real world. Everyone online was totally over cupcakes and 'keep calm and carry on' years ago but it seems it's only just died out in the last year in bricks and mortar shops. Ombre and chevrons have been all over the web for a while but I feel like it's only just hitting the high street properly now. This could be wrong but it's the impression I have. I try to be aware of trends but not to pay too much attention to them. I want to create designs that feel 100% me and I hope others will love as much as I do. At the last trade show I did in London quite a few retailers said they saw a lot of the same style appearing over and over (they didn't include me thank goodness!) and while I don't want to be lumped in that group I also worry that if I'm too different that won't sell either! But I know that if I try to create designs because I think I should to be on trend, they won't be any good because my heart won't be in it.
PS I'm one of those silent readers who never comments but I do love Design Sponge! -
Great topic. In some ways, it's hard for me not to lay this squarely on the shoulders of the internet. Ideas go viral so fast. As a designer and internet lover, it's incredibly hard not to let these trends influence my work even if I don't want them too, it's like being hypnotized. I sometimes think the best way to come up with fresh ideas would be to pull the plug on the www for 6 months and detox, but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
I also agree with the sentiments expressed here about how the trendy stuff sells. My favorite designs (and those of my design-y friends) sit on the virtual shelf gathering dust.
Designs that I created and once found fresh and original but now find predictable and almost corny, continue to be my bread and butter. Isn't this the same reason we have so many mediocre Hollywood movies? or sensationalist journalism? Just givin' the people what they want…I dunno.
I met a fellow stationery designer at the Hive conference in Berlin last month. She said something that stuck with me: "You know, that when you really design something with conviction, those always turn out to be good sellers" I sure hope that's true, and plan to put it to the test in the coming months.
I think the frustration with the slow progress of trends is something that most editors – both online and print – struggle with in a unique and particular way. We see SO MUCH of everything, both in our submission inboxes and in reading other publications. It often feels like something is completely over saturated just as our wider readership is beginning to catch on to a particular trend.
As the editor of a blog that bridges the gap between design and weddings, I've had this exact conversation with my wedding blog colleagues for years. I don't struggle with the same feeling of frustration with lack of newness quite as often as they do, but I know they constantly remind themselves that just because they've seen the same thing a million times it doesn't mean that their readers have seen it before – much less their wedding guests. We might be sick to death of any given trend, but it's brand new and special for them.
This was my 5th year attending NSS, and I was actually really excited about the amount of newness at this year's show, but more from the perspective of seeing a ton of new exhibitors as well as a ton of new designs from veteran exhibitors. I'm just happy to see lots of small design studios exhibiting at the show and producing well-crafted products that are true to their individual styles.
Outside of the tradeshows, I do think there is quite a bit of innovation happening within the stationery community – but it's happening largely in custom design. Wedding invitations, birth announcements, and even business cards: that's where I see stationery design trends develop and then make their way into greeting cards, calendars, etc. Custom design affords the greatest freedom, has much larger profit margins, and the customer actively wants something unique and different from the existing products on the market.
I could ramble on and on, so I'll stop there – thank you so much for introducing this discussion!
I'm so glad we're having this conversation as well. My work is such that it's relatively low risk to try new things and see what captures people's imaginations and what doesn't. I sometimes forget how those of us who don't spend all day consuming visual inspiration see the world. I am an illustrator who makes prints of my artwork. I was at a craft show this weekend when a very well-meaning person came into my booth and told me I should have more owls in my work because they are the new trendy animal.
I'd say there are conflicting factors contributing to me creating new designs for my company. Creative urges and a need to produce more products / stay relevant contribute to me producing new designs. On the other hand, the high cost of production slows me down; preventing me from releasing many new designs and keeping current designs in ongoing production. Further, I hate feeling that, as a designer, I'm just contributing to the existence of more stuff in the world. That creates a very deliberate choice to slowly & methodically release new designs.
I am an artist working in the visual and aromatic realm. Instead of watching trends, I use my heart as my compass, producing work that is as authentic to what's happening within my sphere. This keeps me engaged in the work.
The cost of production has been extremely challenging lately, but, it also has made me delve deep into my creativity to innovate. Although this process has been difficult it has produced a fruitful outcome and dialogue with my customers.
Trends are irrelevant. Authenticity is timeless. I am a professional artist and teacher that presents workshops to colleges and universities that encourage artists to embrace an entrepreneurial model for their art businesses. One of the key components to art (all creative disciplines) career sustainability is to focus on authentic visions. There will always be a market for a well crafted idea that comes from the heart.
The cult of the new is transitory. Solid products can find an audience that will support it for a very long time. Whether it is sold online or in a retail environment becomes irrelevant.
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September 2, 2007
Eating cat.
ADDED: Some people in the comments are quite upset by the idea of eating feral cats -- in Australia, where these animals do tremendous ecological damage. It seems to me that if you accept meat-eating and have no problem with Australians eating, for example, rabbits, that you should want to encourage the eating of feral cats. We're not talking about eating anyone's pet. If the animal isn't a pet, it's like other wild game. And since these cats are nonnative and effective predators of native species, these should be the first animals you should want Australians to use for food.
62 comments:
- EnigmatiCore said...
It's almost like they missed the colloquialism and took the phrase too literally.
- Christy said...
You are evil for seducing me into reading that article. You must be destroyed. As soon as I can herd a thousand cats there is no place in Brooklyn where you will be safe.
And here I'd been thinking that Australia was going to be the last refuge for the free should the Dems get both the White House and the Congress next election. - 9/2/07, 12:23 PM
- Gedaliya said...
Does anyone remember this little ditty:
I like Pussy, her coat so warm,
And if I don't hurt her, she'll do me no harm;
So I'll not pull her tail, nor drive her away,
But Pussy and I very gently will play. - 9/2/07, 12:46 PM
- Ruth Anne Adams said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- Bruce Hayden said...
My problem with cat, is similar to my problem with squirrel, mice, etc., and that is that there is so little meat per carcass. Some dog, at least, provides a meal for multiple people.
The problem with so many of these animals is that we have killed off the bigger predators because of what they do to our feed animals and even to us, and as a result, these other animals that would once have had the predators to keep them in check, don't. Instead, they become pests, ruining ecosystems.
It is worse in Australia, because so much was not indigenous there. Nothing except for man to keep the feline numbers under control, and so, these brave souls are doing their part. - 9/2/07, 2:34 PM
- Freeman Hunt said...
A friend of mine is from Hong Kong, and her father ate cat one time many years ago in mainland China. Her mother swears she can still smell the cat on him to this day.
- Ann Althouse said...
"Slightly off-topic: You mentioned that you plan on returning to Wisconsin every month. That's for your hairdresser, isn't it?"
I have a handful of things I want to be able to do in Madison that have me going back once a month. The hairdresser is one of them. - 9/2/07, 3:11 PM
- Simon said...
I suppose it's quite economical, because you won't need a barbeque to cook them given the fires of hell that start lapping at your heels when you make the decision to go through with it.
- Maxine Weiss said...
Betcha thought nobody noticed. --And, you were hoping that we'd just gloss right over it.
The readers were promised a Vlog weeks ago.
We done been gypped! - 9/2/07, 4:57 PM
- Simon said...
"We're not talking about eating anyone's pet. If the animal isn't a pet, it's like other wild game."
It's still a cat, and I don't think that civilized human beins ought to be in the business of eating, hunting, or otherwise exploiting cats - big, small, domestic or otherwise. - 9/2/07, 5:10 PM
- peter hoh said...
Agreed. The Aussies should just shoot them, leaving them to decompose where they fall.
- titus20 said...
I would never eat pussy....cat.
Speaking of cats you couldnt swing a cat without hitting a gay today in NYC-they were everywhere.
A picture perfect day, only downside is it brings the gays out...in tanktops. - 9/2/07, 5:21 PM
- titus20 said...
Girl, I am sorry you cant find a fabulous hair dresser in NYC? You aren't really going to go back to Madison, WI monthly to visit your hair dresser when you are surrounded by the best hair burners in the country?
Come on, how long will that actually last?
If you want some names I would be happy to give them to you. I promise you will look 10 years younger (not that you need to) and your cleavage will be fierce.
No need to go back to Madison, Wisconsin, ever. - 9/2/07, 5:23 PM
- titus20 said...
I forbid you to go back to Madison Wisconsin to get you haircut. That would literally be a crime.
The fashion police in NYC would arrest you for your poor haircut choices.
I understand loyalty to a particular stylist but honey-no. - 9/2/07, 5:26 PM
- Maxine Weiss said...
Althouse trying to gyp her readers yet again!
- titus20 said...
Not to dwell but you going to Madison Wisconsin from NYC for you haircut would be like you going to NYC from Madison for a Friday Night Fishfry.
- Maxine Weiss said...
Pssst...don't tell anyone, but I'm gonna steal me some ....Mats & Matting.
Then I'm gonna swipe some, Custom Molding & Extrusions.
Gonna then hock me some Hydraulic Hose & Fittings.
Pantry essentials. - 9/2/07, 5:43 PM
- Gary Carson said...
Social rules of behavior, like the law, has nothing to do with logic, rationality, or "should".
- Jennifer said...
I don't understand why people believe it is ethically wrong to eat some animals but not others. If you're going by intelligence, I hope those of you who are upset about this don't indulge in bacon. If you're going by cuddliness, I hope those of you who are upset by this don't enjoy a leg of lamb. If you're going by cuteness, you best not be eating veal.
- titus20 said...
I don't eat animal meat...just human meat, like Ed Gein-wasn't he one of your's Althouse?
Wisconsin??? Ed Gein???
The reason I brought him up is the "Ed Gein" movie was in the IFC this weekend.
I do think it would be kind of cool to do a tour of Wisconsin taverns and "Supper Clubs". Also I would like to see that place in northern scony, who was it Dillinger-had his last hurrah. Sound kind of cool.
OK, I am going out tonight-tea dance, woo hoo. - 9/2/07, 6:42 PM
- titus20 said...
Please take pictures when you go to Bud Sty, Greenpointe and Red Hook.
Interesting in hearing/seeing your impressions.
When do you and I have a date? - 9/2/07, 7:11 PM
- titus20 said...
I meant Bed Sty or Bed Stuy-whatever-I live in Manhattan, we hear about these new outposts but don't actually venture to them.
But I am curious....no gay bars though, bummer. - 9/2/07, 7:12 PM
- titus20 said...
I did go to the disco in Brooklyn though where Saturday Night Live was filmed, unfortunately it has closed.
- titus20 said...
Also, Carol Gardens-I have a friend there and like to visit him and think the area is cool-your thoughts/pictures on Carol Gardens?
- titus20 said...
I have a friend in Carol Gardens that is from Oconto Falls Wisconsin, how cool is that?
He tells me Wisconsin stories-fascinating.
He found out his father had died of a heart attack one night when he came home with some trick and was on ecstasy-how f'd up is that?
The trick, who he had just met that night, went to the aiport that morning with him. I think it was the X though-normally your tricks are out the door within 20 minutes-or maybe that's mine??? He's nice though so he probably met a nice trick. If I got that call I would turn around and my trick would either be gone or want some kind of sympathy f..k.
I am trying not to use the f word-it's hard. Just curious why can we use the f word? - 9/2/07, 7:22 PM
- titus20 said...
Am I your most interesting commenter?
Please say I am-I am insecure-I need this in my life and as you know I kind of love you. - 9/2/07, 7:24 PM
- Cedarford said...
There is no "hunter's code" that claims it is more ethical to eat vermin you kill.
Otherwise, Americans and Aussies have been badly remiss over the centuries in not dining on pan-seared rat and braised termite & cockroach medley au jus.
Feral cats were once thought to be a smaller problem than feral dog packs running down deer and other transgression. Then the studies on domestic and feral cats showed they were causing massive environmental damage.
Feral pigs are a huge problem in some areas, and about 20 years ago the Navy spent millions of dollars wiping out feral goats from California islands they control.
And rumor has it that Chinese, who can gag down just about anything - much with eagerness and relish - pronounce "cat" one of their least welcome meal accompaniments.
If the Chinese consider cat a semi-disgusting meal, we can be pretty sure we won't be lining up for it. - 9/2/07, 8:05 PM
- Ann Althouse said...
Titus, you don't seem to have a deep enough understanding of the hairdresser-client relationship. And my hairdresser is not the only person in Madison I have a relationship with. We are talking about personal relationships, many going back more than a decade. It's not easy to experiment with new people, and Madison is a center of ultra-competence, whereas New York has all sorts of characters. I have numerous things to tend to in Madison, including my tendency toward homesickness. You may think NY has everything, but I don't have the time or interest in looking for it and going through a trial and error period. I have people I trust in Madison.
And back to the cats. If you think I'm not being sensitive enough, you need to consider that you are insensitive to animals that don't fit within your range of personal emotions. That's self-centered and speciesist. The idea that cats are above other animals is all about you, not the animals. You should think more about the native Australian species that this predator is destroying. Why are you so sympathetic to it? - 9/2/07, 8:14 PM
- Freeman Hunt said...
I read somewhere that carnivore meat doesn't taste very good. Is that true? That would be my only issue with eating wild cats. Rabbit, lamb, I admit I love the the cute ones. Delicious.
- Simon said...
"And back to the cats. If you think I'm not being sensitive enough...."
My criticism wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the people who are doing this.
"[Y]ou need to consider that you are insensitive to animals that don't fit within your range of personal emotions. That's self-centered and speciesist."
I suppose the only possible response to that, conclusory though it may be, is - "And?" I'm fine with that. I'm irrationally attatched to humans over animals, too. Pure reason has its limits; ultimately, every question boils down to one or more moral axioms, so it's not really that much of a criticism, as I see it, that in this case, that axiom isn't too deeply submerged. For example: why are you concerned about the indigenous animals that are being hunted by feral cats? Why are they any more deserving of concern - just because they're a "native" species being preyed on by a "non-native" species? What purely rational difference does that make? - 9/2/07, 8:39 PM
- igbalonigbanlo said...
Freeman Hunt: I think that's a myth. I've eaten most things that live on land (no cats or dogs though - would probably have if I had been offered). How well most things taste depends on how they are prepared and what spices /condiments go well with them.
I suspect why most people don't eat cats has nothing to do with civility, the meat for the most part is just not worth the effort you have to put into killing and skinning and dressing it. - 9/2/07, 9:30 PM
- igbalonigbanlo said...
Meanwhile, everyone should try pan-roasted swarmers (west african termites - though not the same species that live in wood, these ones build termitariums), at least once. Those things are delicious.
- Eli Blake said...
Conceptually, you are right (other than, on course, orthodox Jews who would consider eating a carnivore not kosher).
That said, eating cats just isn't very appealing to most people. In fact a lot of manufacturers won't tell you that the 'faux fur' you buy in coats is actually dog fur.
Yes, with the proper application of political donations and lobbying, the clothing industry has actually gotten Congress to OK making coats from dogs and labelling it in a way that makes you think it is synthetic.
Ain't it great? Cruella de Ville must be a lobbyist. - 9/2/07, 9:36 PM
- Trooper York said...
At least we know that Maxine will never go hungry
- cheerful iconoclast said...
Small Mammals can be quite good when baked.
- amba said...
Why are you so sympathetic to it?
Because when you know a species and have had personal relationships with members of it, the species becomes "people" to you, and eating it becomes cannibalism. You don't like the idea of eating members of the species that are wild and strange to you any more than you would like the idea of, say, eating the natives of New Guinea just because you don't happen to know them personally. Of course this is an emotional reaction, but there it is. Why do you expect us to be emotional about politics but rational about food? And why do you invalidate this particular emotion because it's one you haven't experienced?
I expect people with pet rats feel all Willardish about them, too. My cousin had a pet white rat named Veronica. She was quite intelligent, clean, and affectionate.
Back to the hairdresser: I would recommend my wonderful artist to you, but that's because I miss him. He's at Bumble & bumble, and is very expensive; my mother gave me gift certificates to cheer me up. He and I became friends, to the extent that he'd cut my hair in trade for Feldenkrais Method CDs (worth half as much or less) that he was never going to use, and wouldn't take tips from me because it made him feel weird.
I thought you might be homesick; more things than usual were making you cry. - 9/2/07, 11:02 PM
- Donald Douglas said...
I'm with Althouse on this one. The cat's are animals, and we eat animals.
It doesn't sound so appetizing, but people say the same thing about escargot.
Burkean Reflections - 9/2/07, 11:11 PM
- Luckyoldson said...
First of all, I have nothing against eating pussy, but have any of you ever had big ol' juicy condor burger?
You can make damn near 150 pretty good sized patties out of a single bird.
Freeze 'em and serve 'em on special holidays and the kid's birthdays.
Yummy!! - 9/2/07, 11:13 PM
- michilines said...
Although I missed the 'egg sandwich' fundraiser (heard a little about it on another site), how about a new one?
I'd love to see Ann eat dog.
I remember the very first student I taught from Korea. He asked me if I had a dog. I replied truthfully. He asked her size. Again, I answered truthfully. He surmmised that she would feed a family of four. I laughed and said, no she wouldn't.
People all over the planet have different ideas of what is food.
The problem I have with the Australian project is that it could simply be solved by "catch, spay/nueter, release." It's the lack of responsibility on the part of the humans that is to blame. Not the cats. But then the humans get a meal out of the problem that they caused. - 9/3/07, 12:43 AM
- lee david said...
I say.
Trap 'em
Zap 'em
Freeze 'em
Ship 'em to China where they can be appreciated.
PS. Retain the fur, the "cat hat" could be the next big fashion item. It does have a ring to it. It could have a tail/tale too. Sold in eco-marts everywhere. "It's the right thing to do for THE PLANET". - 9/3/07, 1:43 AM
- Kirk said...
"The Aussies should just shoot them, leaving them to decompose where they fall."
That's certainly how gophers are treated in Farm Country, USA.
And as far as the "catch,spay/neuter/release" solution somebody proposed, do you have the slightest idea how much that would cost per animal? Whereas not only are .223 or similiar varmint-sized cartridges fairly economical, as in the gopher example the government doesn't have to hire people to do it and the volunteers even provide their own ammo.
You're right about the wonderfulness of termites--truly Frito Lay's motto should apply to them--but tell me, do you know somewhere you can buy them in the USA??? (BTW, it's not just West African, the ones in Southern Sudan are exactly as you describe, too.) - 9/3/07, 1:55 AM
- blake said...
If you're going by intelligence, I hope those of you who are upset about this don't indulge in bacon. If you're going by cuddliness, I hope those of you who are upset by this don't enjoy a leg of lamb. If you're going by cuteness, you best not be eating veal.
Jeez, thanks for ruining my BMV (bacon, mutton & veal) on wheat. - 9/3/07, 2:31 AM
- igbalonigbanlo said...
I know of no one that sells them and I'm not particularly sure the regulatory bodies would allow such things into the country. I didn't know Southern Sudan had them, cool. - 9/3/07, 3:01 AM
- scott said...
Speaking as an Australian, one of the reasons I am reticent to go out hunting feral cat is Australia's indigenous wildlife might bite me. Snakes, spiders, ants, all kreepy krawlies, and not fun to be with. I don't know how Steve Irwin managed it.
- Ann Althouse said...
amba: "I thought you might be homesick; more things than usual were making you cry."
Well, if you look at the "emotional Althouse" tag, I've cried at the sunset with schooner and that thing King George said about Washington. Then, before coming to NY, I cried about Ingmar Bergman's death and a "significant tree." The first 2 things are 5 days apart and the other 2 are 2 months apart, so I suppose you're right. The only one that involved actual sobbing, however, was Ingmar Bergman's death.
Re sterilizing and releasing the cats to deal with the problem: that must be a joke, considering the numbers and the expense. But then, eating the cats isn't much of a solution, for the same reason. So that being the case, it's probably not worth offending the sensibilities of people who insist on favoring this species over others. - 9/3/07, 6:07 AM
- Richard Fagin said...
Apparently on one commenting has ever read Mike Royko's column or two dealing with cats. "Heeerrrrre, Fluffy. BLAM!" RIP, Mike.
- Paco Wové said...
Mr. E. Blake:
"Yes, with the proper application of political donations and lobbying, the clothing industry has actually gotten Congress to OK making coats from dogs and labelling it in a way that makes you think it is synthetic."
Really? That's not what your link says, or implies:
"[Rep. Jim] Moran said he and Rep. Mike Ferguson, R-New Jersey, plan to continue their efforts to plug the loopholes that allow such products, in part by adding the raccoon dog to the list of outlawed furs and requiring all products to be labeled..."
Sounds like manufacturers taking advantage of a loophole, rather than Congress collusively saying that the practice is OK. - 9/3/07, 7:34 AM
- amba said...
Invasive species are a terrible problem. I just learned that in Hawaii, first rats and pigs brought by the Polynesians (both as food supplies) and later pigs, goats, and rats brought by the Europeans (the last of the three unintentionally) have decimated the native species. There are "extreme botanists" who rappel down cliffs looking for the last specimens of species on their last legs. Often, someone imported these species as a bright idea -- cats may have simply hitched along on convict ships, or someone may have brought them to control the bunnies, or something. And it's not just animals. Eucalyptus and Australian pine in Florida, kudzu and bamboo here in the South -- every damn thing is draped in a green shroud of kudzu. There aren't any natural controls on imported species, they're out of whack with everything else, and they just go nuts on an ecosystem.
I can see shooting the cats, but I wouldn't want to eat them. - 9/3/07, 7:52 AM
- amba said...
Actual sobbing was my reaction to Orson Welles' death, quite a while ago now. Also, more recently, the death of Ibrahim Ferrer.
- bill said...
A fascinating book I recommend for everyone is Unmentionable Cuisine by Calvin W. Schwabe. He traveled the world documenting how all the odd pieces of animals are cooked. Lungs, kidneys, brains, etc. Many of which were canned and on the grocery shelves not too many decades ago and now have become high priced delicacies. Aside from the recipes, one reason Schwabe wrote the book in 1979 was his belief that due to overpopulation we were about to face a food shortage. Americans would have to face their food fears and start eating all the rough bits we usually threw away. He also expected we'd have to change housing laws to allow people to raise and slaughter livestock in homes and apartments.
Long way around of saying that yes, he has cat recipes. In fact Chapter 6 is "Dog & Cat Meat," in between "Horsemeat" and "Rabbit & Hare."
"Domestic cat, on the other hand, tastes more like rabbit than chicken and has often been sold as rabbit in Europe. No doubt more people have eaten cat than would admit it, and the fact that they cannot taste the difference seems reason enough to enjoy it for what it is, an abundant and often wasted meat.
I have found no data on the nutritional value of cat meat."
cat stew: Spain, Ghana
steamed cat and chiken: China
snake and cat soup: China
"The eyes of cats were described as being offered in Cantonese food shops in the last century, but I have not discovered how they were prepared."
If you like beef, he does have a lovely French recipe for stuffed calf's eyes. Email me and I'll send it to you. - 9/3/07, 8:08 AM
- Eva said...
titus20, I want to read your blog. I think I love you a little.
I agree that if you eat one meat, then you might as well eat them all. I was a vegetarian for years, but kind of gave up when I met my husband, who likes to eat a whole cow every day. But now I'm going back. No moral superiority, I just don't like it. And I've gained 20 pounds! - 9/3/07, 8:11 AM
- Cedarford said...
scott said...
Speaking as an Australian, one of the reasons I am reticent to go out hunting feral cat is Australia's indigenous wildlife might bite me. Snakes, spiders, ants, all kreepy krawlies, and not fun to be with. I don't know how Steve Irwin managed it.
Yeah, and if you tromp around Australia, you learn they take a perverse pride in having the world's most poisonous snakes, spiders, ants. As well as the most venomous saltwater fish and jellyfish. The 2nd most poisonous centipede.
Then there are the non-poisonous but fearsome Salties and Bull Sharks in the rivers, and the Great Whites off the coast.
Poor Croc Hunter, though. He appears to have been done in by a fairly harmless stingray. - 9/3/07, 11:56 AM
- Kirk said...
Darn, I was hoping for some secret insider's supply.
On the subject of the extent of termites, I assume they're present (in varying quantities) anywhere in subsaharan Africa where it's not actually arid and where the temperature reaches some minimum (i.e. perhaps not on the slopes of Kilimanjaro or at the Cape of Good Hope.) - 9/3/07, 12:50 PM
- John Burgess said...
What an animal eats very much affects its flavor. Try British chickens raised on fish meal. Actually, don't; it's pretty nasty.
Domestic cat, raised on 'chow' of some sort, is nearly indistinguishable from rabbit. In fact, it's been rumored that more than a few restaurants with 'rabbit' on the menu, are actually serving up cat.
Feral cats, though, are not tasty. They bring a whole new dimension to the term 'gamey'. Pretty much the same thing happens with dog.
BTW, most of the fish we eat are carnivorous, so that taboo about not eating carnivores must be more limited in practice. - 9/3/07, 1:37 PM
- Freeman Hunt said...
Oh great, somehow you guys get me excited about eating termites, and now I find out I have to go to Africa to get them.
- Luckyoldson said...
I just gave my cat a cool rinse in the sink (it's hotter than balls) and she bit me.
Can I bite her back? - 9/3/07, 3:08 PM
- joated said...
In addition to eating dog with the natives, the Lewis and Clark Expedition members ate mountain lion. They pronounced it quite good.
Anyone standing up for feral cats has no love of birds, mice, shrews, moles, chimpmunks, snakes, or the many, many other species cats take down as part of their diet. I also have no kind words for those who let their little kitty wander outside. - 9/3/07, 3:14 PM
- Luckyoldson said...
If you like moles, we've got a ton of 'em ruing our property in Missouri.
Could you stop by, round 'em up and take 'em far, far away? - 9/3/07, 3:21 PM
- Simon said...
LOS - got a picture? (Of the kitty on regular duty, I mean, not post-bath).
joated said...
"Anyone standing up for feral cats has no love of birds, mice, shrews, moles, chimpmunks, snakes, or the many, many other species cats take down as part of their diet."
The only response to that is the response I offered Ann's observation that preferring Cats over indigenous species is "speciesist" - "And?" Like Ann's observation, even if it's true, it's meaningless, a shell game - we're supposed to infer that option B is absurd thus we must prefer option A. But it fails because there's nothing absurd about option B - your observation doesn't indicate that people who prefer cats over your laundry list of their prey are wrong to do so, only that, like us, you have an ordering of priorities, but you place cats lower down on it. - 9/3/07, 3:54 PM
- Kirk said...
I'm not saying that the same species of termite, or something similar, might not be available in North America--it's just that I've never seen any and wouldn't know where to begin looking. I do remember reading, in some far-off pre-internet day, a column by an entomology professor touting the wonderfulness of termites, how they're 45% protein by weight, etc. etc. - 9/3/07, 10:35 PM
- Kirk said...
Why don't you just shoot your moles yourself, the good old self-reliant American way? Or is the problem that they're moles and never expose themselves above ground? - 9/3/07, 10:36 PM
- michilines said...
From Ann:
Re sterilizing and releasing the cats to deal with the problem: that must be a joke, considering the numbers and the expense.
No, it's not a joke. It's happenning now in the U.S. and Mexico. Low to no cost sterilization of feral cats goes on all the time. I'm at 5 and counting. I know many others who are in double digits. Just because you aren't aware of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't possible.
But then, eating the cats isn't much of a solution, for the same reason.
That's just wrong. There is a no-kill solution. You just choose to ignore it. Typical.
So that being the case, it's probably not worth offending the sensibilities of people who insist on favoring this species over others.
That last bit is one your patently ambiguous replys.
When do we get to see you eat dog, Ann? Maybe you could appraoch the person with that beauty in one of your pics? That one would feed a family fer sure. - 9/4/07, 10:14 PM


text:
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text:
All bus routes and stops are set for the 2016-17 school year. If you registered by the July 1st deadline, you should receive your child's bus pass with information on their route and stop by August 12th. If you registered after the July 1st deadline, you will be notified only if you are placed on a wait list. Otherwise, watch for your pass in the mail.
If you have not yet registered your child, but would like them to ride the bus, please contact the transportation department to determine if there will be a possibility of accommodating your child.
Michelle McGregor, Transportation Liaison 847-512-6024
Effective and efficient transportation systems affect everyone. Students, parents, teachers, staff, administrators, and school board members all take an active role in helping provide a safe and reliable school transportation system. The student transportation for Wilmette School District 39 is designed to offer safe, reliable, efficient, and economical service so students can devote their full attention to learning and growing.
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For Kindergarten students attending Kindergarten Enrichment at the Wilmette Park District transportation may be available. Please contact Michelle McGregor at 847-512-6024 if interested.


text: HTC Hero "Sense" UI Officially Coming to the Magic, MyTouch 3G Might Be Left in the ColdJohn Herrman8/15/09 10:03pmFiled to: Androidsense uiHtc magic sense uiHtc magicMagicmyTouch 3GT-mobile mytouch 3gwith googleBrandingHTC Sense UICellphonesSmartphonesHtc28EditPromoteShare to KinjaToggle Conversation toolsGo to permalink The HTC Magic is getting an official update to the Hero's overhauled, fairly wonderful "Sense" UI, but there's a catch: the T-Mobile MyTouch 3G, which is basically the same freakin' phone, probably won't get the update, for lame licensing reasons. To be fair, we should have expected this: Back in June, there were reports that HTC representatives had been talking about a licensing issue that would keep any proprietary modifications off of phones with "With Google" branding. Sense is all HTC, and the MyTouch 3G is slapped with a Google logo, so this forthcoming update, which was announced at a press conference in Taiwan and will be available from HTC's website at some point in the near future, sounds like a distinctly foreign interest. It's worth holding out for possible "clarifications" on this one—please, HTC, Google, or both, say something! Soothe us!—but this hemisphere's outlook isn't so great. Enjoy turning your Magics into Heroes for free, Eurojerks. At least we've got our homebrew. Update: Another possible issue: The MyTouch 3G and Vodafone-labeled Magics have slightly less RAM than their HTC-branded counterparts, which means even the best hacked Hero ROMs don't run especially well. Yeah, not looking so great for ol' MyTouch here. [ePrice—Thanks, Taknarosh and Nick!]Reply28 repliesLeave a reply