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it's action. And Spielberg can't hurt either. Hoping for the best.
if not..who cares...well I guess me. :|
that when the transformers get shot, they just don't bounce around like in the cartoons. I wanna see some destroyed limbs and sparks and metal chunks flying off.
Hes been waiting for this movie since he was five. Some of those sequences do sound pretty good though and Bay is usually good for those over the top action scenes
... and the changes make sense. The red coloring fro Optimus might come from the 'battle armor' he dons later on, making a very cool reveal. Overall, Transformers might just be a perfect fit for Bay. I'm kinda shocked I said that, too.
April 23, 2006, 8:48 p.m. CST
by crazyeyezkillah
but not in real life. Sure, vectored thrust, stealth, but it doesn't hover or have any VTOL capabilities.That's all Bay. And since when does Optimus Prime wear or use a "battle mask" or have a "face guard?" That's just how his face looks, no lips. It's not like we've ever seen that part slide down or come off or anything.
After seeing Pearl Harbor I thought Bay should only do action-filled movies that doesn't require any intelligence from the audience. But after the Island I felt he has what it takes to make Transformers successful for both the fans and the box office, which will bring out more sequels. I feel like he has justified some of the little changes without hurting the soul and lore of the Transformers that us fans have known throughout the years. My prediction is what Jurassic Park did for the viewing public and the movie industry, Transfomers will do the same thing 14 years later. I just hope if there are sequels, they will be in that new Stereo format (3D).
That's all...except, I do enjoy Bay's films as pieces of entertainment, and The Island deserved a better box office fate than it received. Anyhow, looking forward to this. A lot. And when that teaser poster comes out, eBay here I come.
You know, I understand the idea of using pupils/iris in the robots eyes, though we'll definetly loose the edge that brings to giant robot characters. It's damn cool and iconic just having glowing menacing eyes. Oh well. This is done quite alot in comic book movies, where they screw up the eyes to give 'more emotion' though in the end it just doesn't fit(think Sabertooth, Storm... even Spawn). It does sound great how Bay seems to be using old beat up cars though - not all slick and polished.
ever watch Beastwars?
Another point - it would be really awesome if Bay nails the feel of the 80's - not set in that time per se, but that classic almost 'spielberg' coming of age action film. Hmmm... we'll see.
I like the idea of the sand robot, but i dont ever want to see Prime without his face guard.
OK, so I grew up in the UK and maybe I missed something. Optimus Prime wears a battle mask? Really? Can someone point me to the issue of the comic books where that nugget is revealed? I don't remember is from the 300+ issues of the UK Transformers book. Maybe sitting through hours of Timmy Mallet to watch 5 minutes of the cartoon on a Saturday morning and during school holidays numbed me to a point that I don't remember seeing mention of a battle mask in all the cartoons I watched. I KNOW it's not in the movie, because I saw that thing three times in the theaters and then rented it the day it came out and every other month and bought it when I had the disposable income and it became a must watch when I was in college and me and my brother just re-watched it at Christmas after a night down the pub. So, someone, anyone, please let me know: WHEN THE FUCK IS IT EVER MENTIONED THAT PRIME IS WEARING A FUCKING BATTLE MASK?!? Is that a development after the original comic book finished? Someone point me towards a pic of Prime WITHOUT this "battle mask" and I'll calm down.
Discovering an alien in antarctica, dogs running away, lost city/planet...sounds like Lovecraft was very influential
The eyes thing is terrifying to me. Didn't Prime have blue eyes? The proposed tagline sounds like AvP. I guess they've jettisoned the whole Mount St. Helens part of the origin. The chase sounds...lame. Prime wouldn't jeopardize humans by going after a Decepticon in traffic. I like Bay's movies for the most part, but everything in this report makes me scared to death of this movie. I might just stick with the one from 1985, cheers.
Thanks, mate, that cheered me up :-)
Cause he damn well better be a gun. I always thought it was cool how Megatron turns into an powerful ass gun and Starscream would use him. I'd had to see the pussy Jetfighter Megatron they've been touting around lately with the recent cartoons. I'll still see this movie, don't get me wrong, but I want gun Megatron dammit! Also... will Soundwave be in it I wonder? I mean, as cool as that would be, a giant boom box that shoots a transforming casette tape? It might be a little dated.
They look kinda similiar, both sleek looking. The F-22 is NOT VTOL capable, but the JTF is.
Don't believe a word he says otherwise. I hate to become a cliche talkbacker, but Bay has and will always be a hack of the highest order, Spielberg hand on or no. I like how people throw Spielberg's name in there to try to add some legitimacy. He was also just as creatively invested The Flinstones, and Casper as well... until they came out crappy, then you didn't hear about him much. Bay will make a Transformers flick that is about as faithful to the source material as Masters of the Universe movie. How people defend this bankrupt soul of a director is beyond me. If you defend the likes of Michael Bay, and Paul WS Anderson, you need better standards. Even fun, dumb movies deserve better.
Honestly how can anyone complain about a battle mask? It's giant robots fighting each other in that patented Bay orange filter. Scorponok killing soldiers in the middle East. A beat-up yellow 70'smobile? Megatron and Optimus fighting in the streets of L.A.? How the hell can any of you read that and only respond with a complaint about a Optimus battle mask? Giant fucking robots, people!!!
how can transformer fans complain? as long as ben affleck, will smith, and martin lawrence aren't playing transformers how can you complain about Bay? He is going to make a balls to the wall action movie with cheesy lines because he'll put the action and special effects FAR above plot/character...I don't want to see a transformers drama, i want them to blow some shit up for 2 and a half hours...Bay won't let you down in that department
If one pries off the "battle mask" faceguard from the huge-ass 20th Anniversary Optimus Primes that came out a couple of years ago (best. Transfomer. toy. ever.), one can see Optimus' mouth. So, at least from the perspective of the designers at Takara, it's supposed to be a "battle mask."
I still hate the idea, but at least there is some grounding for it. Oh, and how can I complain, xavier? Easy. Same as the Star Wars/LOTR/Spiderman/Superman/Star Trek/X-Men fans. Same as every person on a talkback who has ever been a little pissed that they've changed details about something that was important to them when they were a kid. Same as every person who compares Lost to 24 and argues that one is better than the other. THAT'S how I complain. I actually liked the stories that were spawned from the toys. Simon Furman and all the other writers ended up creating a real universe for the characters and I grew up on that. Is the action important? Yes, it is. But I always liked Transformers for more than just the action pieces.
the F-22, perhaps?
No Arcee, right? That's the female Autobot from the movie who was a god-awful idea. Any sign of Soundwave or Starscream? And would anyone else be happy if Death's Head made an appearance? That would make me a very happy camper, yes?
Affleck, Smith, Lawrence aren't being looked into as voices for Transformers? Affleck as Prime? It wouldn't shock me.
Bumblebee, perhaps?
When he was retransmorgrafied by Omnicron (Orson Welles' last real film role), he became Galvatron. And Leonard Nimoy did his new voice. And if some new school Optimus Prime toy has lips then it's exactly that: new school bullshit.
April 23, 2006, 10:24 p.m. CST
by Rant Breath
Your making a scifi epic NOT Herbie 2. Focus dammit.
April 23, 2006, 10:30 p.m. CST
by Fatboy Roberts
and Welker. Then again, the cynicist in me says he's just placating fanboys right now, and he has absolutely no intention of casting them, but by throwing the bone that he'll "Audition" them, he gets off the hook for now. But maybe he really is considering it. And he needs to. Because anything other than Cullen's voice coming out of Prime's "Battle mask" is going to suck fucking hard. And I'm with Rantbreath--the angle here SHOULD NOT BE "Boy's first car." Not at fucking all.
Looking at how many action sequences he wants to cram into this thing--the scope of it, I'm getting the feeling that with THAT many key cast members, the giant robots won't really get all that fleshed out at all. So to speak. It'll be a military movie where the misunderstood enemy just happen to be transforming robots. And our boy will learn what the meaning of real friendship is from his car. With special assistance from "Singing, laughing fellow" Michael Clarke Duncan. And John Leguizamo. And Jon Voight. And Josh Duahmel. and so on and so on. I mean, I know it's just fighting robots, but this movie WILL need a focus, and with all these flying parts around, I'm getting the feeling it's going to be too much, with too little time to spread around. Hopefully I'm wrong.
When I was younger the other boys around my block would play with GI JOEs, I was always into the Transformers... I don't care if this movie ends up being a cheesefest, I mean, just how serious can a movie about robots from a planet called Cybertron that transform into vehicles be? I still have many action figures from the original series, and I'm talking about when they used to make toys with metal and not plastic, and I WILL SEE this movie first chance I get... StarScream better be in it, and ShockWave better not be an iPod, that's all I'm asking for.
April 23, 2006, 10:49 p.m. CST
by Rant Breath
...is like "auditioning" James Earl Jones to recur his role as Darth Vader's voice. You can't find a better person for the role you idiots!!! Peter Cullen IS Optimus Prime! An audition is NOT necessary. Infact they should be kissing his ass, begging him to do it! I know he's "only" a lowly voice actor but he deserves respect goddamit! He's goddam Optimus Prime!!! "Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost."
It has to be the original actor for that role. Has to be. If Bay is serious about conveying the emotion of Prime, he has to use the original voice actor -- it also serves as a bridge for the fans. It makes sense to keep continuity wherever possible. And, let's face it -- they're going to throw money at the effects, so why not try and keep the budget in check by using VO actors who aren't going to demand 10 million bucks for the job and a cut of the profits?
I have a old school interest in this film since I used to be a big fan when I was a kid. *** Crazyeyekillah - it was "Unicron" not "Omnicron" that tranformed Megatron into Galvatron. *** Also, as long as Megatron has his fu$king FUSION CANNON wrecking havoc, this movie should be worth the price of admission. He was one of the greatest cartoon villains ever.
sure as hell aint gonna be a boombox.
If anything, I think a little age in their voices could add depth of character, ESPECIALLY with Optimus. Bring back the originals. But please, for fuck's sake, don't give this movie any "Beast Wars" revisionism. A scorpion robot? Makes me nervous...
It was Unicron, not Omnicron, just like it's crazyeyezkillah, not Crazyeyekillah. I don't know where I got Omnicron from, but it does sound cool. If Bay's reading this, which he ain't, put fucking GRIMLOCK in this bad boy. "Me, Grimlock, EAT Laserbeak." And Shia Le Bouf should yell "Oh shit!" at least once.
takes place in 2005.
Don't get me wrong, falling into a giant hand sounds cool and all, but what is some guy with a dogsled doing in front of a giant wall of ice, chipping at it? Is there some scientific benefit to this exercise? Is he just crazy? Eh. *************** As if anyone who'd be in a position to do anything about this would listen to me, but my advice is to make THAT scene the first scene in the movie and then to flashback to Cybertron immediately afterward. I know it's crazy and non-linear and all, but showing a CGI-addled prologue of a battle on a distant planet and then cutting to Antarctica just sounds too much like 'AVP.' Plus I think the shot of a gigantic robot hand would be more effective if people don't actually see the robots first. Just my two cents.
What in his track record makes him think that he is talented or creative enough to fundamentally change the way these characters look or their voices? I'm not asking for every nook and cranny here but thinks like taking the red out of optimus prime or removing his facial mask? Bay you are never going to improve upont he originals you can only make them just as good or make them worse. That being hte case what is hte point? Come the fuck on, that's not creative changes that's Bay thinking he is better than he is and wanting to make arbitrary cosmetic changes so he can feel like it's more his own. hey Bay, you aren't very good you made one of hte worst movie sin film history with Pearl Harbor and your last movie was the Ishtar of 2005. Stic to the fundamentals Bay and then maybe you won't be such a failure. oh wait, I just realized what the changes are for they need to make action figures for the movies and can't just sell the same ones as before hence the change in the look. Fuck Hollywood.
One of the best damn birthday present I ever got actually. He was a massive green robot that could double as a giant Scorpion or the Decepticons fortress. I remember him in the cartoon fighting Fortress Maximus, it was fuckin awesome. Check it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorponok
...that no one is complaining that it isn't Spike and Sparkplug as the two human friends of the Autobots in this film. Granted, the name Spike Witwicky is pretty ridiculous, but I'm hoping it's Sam's (Shia's character) nickname in the film. All in all, though, I'm excited about this info. I'm not huge on the visible mouth for Prime (something that is included in newer versions of the characters) but at least they are conscious of using th face plate to have the traditional look. And the fact that he's a Mack truck is spectacular. My only regret about the film is that I'm not in it. I'm looking forward to this.
I doubt we'll see him. VW hasn't allowed Hasbro/Takara to use any VW designs in their Transformers lines of late because they don't want their vehicles associated with war machines. Real shame since Bumblebee/Goldbug and Cliffjumper were so iconic. I could be wrong, but don't be surprised.
And yes I know the actor who voices him and Cobra Commander passed away but they better find someone damn similar. The petulant wail was so damn iconic and the Starscream Magatron dynamic was probably the best in the series. It's gold.
is cast a "name" actor to be the voice of Prime. I don't want "the voice" in the trailer to say, And as Optimus Prime - George Clooney. I've never understood that. If you cast a neame actor, when you first see their character on the screen you think of the actor not the character. I refer to Cameron Diaz in Shrek. Brad Pitt in Sinbad. Unless your Robin Williams, where you can bring more than your voice to the table, there's no point. Other than that. I-WANT-TO-SEE-THIS-MOVIE-NOW!
Wow. Triple post. I know. But to say I'm a Trans-fan would be understating it a bit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it was my fave toy line of the '80s. Above He-Man, above G.I. Joe, above Thundercats. Hell, possibly even above Star Wars (though my Millenium Falcon and X-Wing were still amazingly kick-ass). Anyway, I'm betting they use the tank version of Megatron that came out a few years ago. I just don't think they'll be able to reconcile the fact that Megatron miracuolous shrunk every time he transformed into a gun so that Starscream could fire him. (It's kind of funny, but the 20th anniversay Optimus Prime figure illustrates that point very well with its included Megatron gun.)
Count me interested now? Think Bay's freeway scene can outdo Matrix Reloaded's?
He has the balls to hang posters for Bad Boys 2 and Pearl Harbor in his conference room? Those two abominations would be mercifully wiped from our collective consciousness if it were within my power. Bay prodcues a lot of cheese, lets hope this movie doesn't get his "personal" touch....
If that's the real cast, I will not care about this flick at all. Bernie Mac? Michael Clarke Duncan? Jon Voight? Shia Lebeouf? Fuck no. And Bad Boys 2 is the bane of my existence.
April 24, 2006, 12:42 a.m. CST
by iamnicksaicnsn
ng. Especially I think it was in the second season, when they found Optimus Prime's corpse, it sent chills up my spine and it was just insane. To see him so well done in 3-d form. I'd almost argue that Beast Wars is better than the OS, but definitely better than any of the recent bullshit that's come out recently.
Apart from Prime and Megatron, every fan wants to know if the Dinobots are going to be in this flick? At least have ol' Grimlock!!! The fact that they are going to try and get the original voices is the best idea for this movie I've heard yet. Yeah the guy who did Starscream passed away (so did Robert Stack who voice ultra magnus in the animated movie). Is scorpinok going to be a huge SOB like the 80's (the size of a city)? is Megatron going to be a Tank or a gun? (Leonard Nimoy who voiced galvatron in the animated movie did a great job and would be a good choice again as Megatron) and it was Unicron, not omnicron (holy crap were you even born in the 80's Crazyeyekillah?) fom what I read in this report, it looks like it's going to make the true fans like myself happy. And Beast Wars at least linked itself to the original series, unlike that TF: cybertron or any other "updated" version crap. until then: Roll Out!
I was born in the 1970s. And yeah, I already capitulated like three posts later. But that's all you got. I even suggested Grimlock already.
They get the original voice of Starscream.
I was seriously bummed out a few minutes ago after reading Mori's review. Nothing but great things here, as far as I can see. Summer 2007 is going to kick so much ass.....
Some of the fight/action scenes sounds pretty decent. I'm not real big on Scorponok being in this as he was a later generation Decepticon. Plus he's supposed to be HUUUUGE. He's originally a Decepticon base. He doesn't sound very big in this version. But I can deal. I'm happy to hear that Bay is supposedly trying out the original Voice Actors. But I agree with the posters above. They shouldn't have to try out. They should automatically get the parts. Specifically Cullen and Welker. As long as those two reprise their roles i'll be fine. If they want to cast reg actors as the other robots then ok I can deal. But Optimus and Megatron NEED to have the original voice actors portraying them. Considering Cullen and Welker do voice work in about everything made today I don't think they've gotten rusty over the years as Bay suggested. And Megatron is supposed to be a Tank in this movie version. Just to clear up any confusion. A toy gun Megatron won't be very well accepted in todays post 911 world. And from what i've read before their not real big on the whole changing size thing when transforming. They want that out of the movie. The deal with Optimus's Face plate sounds like a crap idea. I can understand why they want to remove it for most of the movie. To show more emotion in the character I imagine. But your losing the whole recogonizable aspect of Optimus Prime in the process. It's a bad idea don't do it. That whole antartica scene with the robots frozen in the ice sounds like the storyline from the comics Pat Lee did a couple years ago. Humans found a bunch of the Transformers frozen in ice at the north Pole after their ship to cybertron blew up after taking off. I seriously don't think the movie sounds that bad so far. They're on the right track. But they just need to improve or fix a couple minor things here in there. The things that need fixed the most won't really affect how non-fans react to this. So in that case just fix what needs it and appease the ones of us that are fans already please. We'll like the movie just that much more.
Sorry but I don't get many chances at posting about this. This is my personal Transformers animation cel collection. let me know what you think. http://tinyurl.com/a9ksg
What? Big fucking robots that transform into vehicles makes me hard. Add to the fact that Spielberg is involved? Can we please see a starscream vs. jetfighters dogfight? Wouldn't it be fucking great to see a fighter jet transform mid-air - swat another jet out of the sky - transform back into jet and keep dogfighting some more jets? Okay I'm getting ahead of myself. The possibility of what cool, crazy, shit we might be about to see as a live action Transformers flick far outweighs any complaints about altering logos or facemasks or anything. In fact don't re-hash my childhood for my little brother. Give him something new based on something cool I grew up with is all I ask. You guys are kicking ass on the "cool news" this weekend. Thanks!
otherwise what do you have left? Just some silly movie about cars that transform into robots. GIVE ME EYES, GOD DAMN IT. No one will believe this is a teen's first car unless they can see it in the robot's eyes. You can't tell a deeply human story like this with glowing red orbs.
You know, glowing eyes CAN show emotion, obviously Bay doesn't want to try hard enough. In the original cartoons it worked pretty well because sometimes, when they were angry their eyes would flare up and go wide, or if say, in contemplation, they'd go slimlined and duller, there are ways, they just want to make them over-complicated. About the prime Battlemask thing? Thats fine. Obviously a lot of you don't remember that Prime was originally a robot on Cybertron who didn't have that faceguard bit, he looked somewhat different and only became Optimus after Megatron and the Decepticons royally fucked him up. I'm excited as hell for this movie, I seriously can't wait!!!
To do what? Suck? It sucked ass. Get over it. THe onyl thing I give a shit about this movie is whether or not someone gets horribly mangled being inside a transformer when it transforms. Aside from Lucas having give Randal back his money, that was the only good thing that came out of the godawful Clerks cartoon.
April 24, 2006, 3:26 a.m. CST
by JackPumpkinhead
And receives promotional gifts, maybe even a promise of a cameo! You know what that means -- now even if Bay's 'Transformers' is a pile of crap smellier than 'Armageddon', it will still only get positive reviews...
Take any cool drawing or animation of a Transformer and add pupils and it looks fucking retarded. Suddenly these advanced machines look too human and too ordinary. Optimus Prime looks like a warrior-god with glowing pupil-less eyes. He doesnt look like fuckin bicentenial man.
Hello. Her is what I would like to see in this movie: Peter Cullen doing Optimus. Starscream being sneaky. Soundwave with his emotionless voice sending out tapes to attack. Maybe having Megatron being a tank but also transforming into a BFG weapon for one of his fellow Decepticons to fire. Bumblebee as a Mini. Thundercracker and Skywarp. Wheeljack and Hound. Now when it comes to voices, while I think a lot of the voice actors would be good, they could always improve upon it. While I cannot imaging Optimus being voiced by anyone other than Cullen, Ironhide (who was also voiced by Cullen) could be done by someone else. And the actors who did Soundwave, Starscream, Megatron, and Jazz are all deceased, so they will need new voices. Sondwave won't be difficult to reproduce, but some of the others will be. I am particularly interested in who can do Starscream (one of my two favorite G1 characters, the other being Soundwave) and Megatron. They are both voices of evil power that need distinct voices to portray them. Finally, am I the only geek in here that noticed this? Int the freeway chase, Optimus is chasing a Decepticon... who is also a truck. Could this truck be Motormaster? And if it is, could we possibly see the Stunticons? Ohhh, the possibilities. I must go for now to take care of this geek fan created hardon I have... Domo.
Lush! It was my first ever Transformers toy. Sigh. I miss my childhood.
This could be a wonderful ode to the 80's with the Transformers exactly as they were (and Soundwave as a BOOMBOX, dammit)! But it's not going to happen, because there are toys to be sold.
Sideswipe and Sunstreaker kick ass but were underrated in my opinion. Also, I don't think we'll see dinobots in this one, most likely the sequel. But the key to the success of the movie is two things: The robot design and the character voices. Pete Cullen as Prime is a must and his voice is still deep and powerful as it was back in the 80's. I don't think the movie would work without Cullen as Prime. In otherwords, big opening weekend then a 60% drop off due to pissing off the original fans who basically are the key to a movie's success in terms of word of mouth. Sure there are others who might enjoy it but I think fans are underestimated when it comes to box office receipts. Also, I never liked that they replaced Optimus with Rodimus, and the slaughter of all of our favorite autobots and decepticons in order to sell new toys, but I do hope that they can incorporate Hot Rod into the film. Judd Nelson can even do the voice, god knows he needs the work. But last, I hope they can somehow incorporate the Constructicons or some of the other big robots. Imagine seeing a bunch of robots merging into Devastator or Superion. That would kick all kinds of ass. Truthfully, I think Bay is kind of on his last leg here. The Island was a big budget rip off of Logan's Run and it had none of the heart, plus no gratuitous nudity. Lame. He really needs to hit this one out of the park and face masks aren't gonna help any.
April 24, 2006, 4:42 a.m. CST
by The Wrong Guy
The Rock I can tolerate. The Island doesn't suck that badly. But the rest...God help the rest of Michael Bay's CV shitfest. He's like a second-rate Uwe Boll
...when I really think somthing is fucked I have to say. And this is it. I used to love Transformers when I was a kid, so my soft spot is all there and frankly this is tripe. It's another case of lets change it all to the point where it's Transformers in name only. Sometimes things ARE hokey, but they work. Optimus Prime V Megatron, sell my soft spot to see that.
I'm getting more excited about this project with every new piece of information that comes our way. I can't wait to see Autobots and Decepticons beating the crap out of each other on the big screen. They just better include Bumblebee and Jazz.
.... Then this film has to look EXACTLY the same as the characters we all fell in love with in the 80's. I'm not so sure the original voice actors is the way to go. Personally, i think new but 'like' voices would really give this thing some extra balls. And some blood. I read a comic of the transformers that had actual human crushing and I want to see THAT!!
(1) strictly Gen-1 characters, no later or new ones (2) the classic designs (3) to be from the robot-POV, not from the human (4) set in the 80's (5) "Constructicons merge to form Devastator!"
...didn't make any sense and looked pretty silly" No it doesn't, dude. It looked awesome - just do what they did in the original: cheat! Who ever asked for Transformers to be "technologically-correct"? Besides, the toys worked, so there!
As long as they stick to Generation 1 characters. Much more iconic than the fucking mess the current generation is stuck with. I've got a hunch though Hasbro will stick their noses in and not want to back track to past products. arses!
get rid of the stupid Antarctica "discovery". just show how they leave Cybertron. get rid of the stupid military angle. just have good robots vs. evil robots please. Screw Volkswagen. Bumblebee didn't have VW decals so who cares what they say. BTW, VW already makes war machines: they're called pink Beetles and they're emasculating the whole world. Hell yes on the original voices!!! And why not go retro 80's with everybody (i.e. Soundwave and Starscream; no friggin iPod robots)? That's how everybody remembers them. Kids today won't know and won't care. They like robots and toys and robot toys. It doesn't need to be updated! Have you listened to music lately? I hear sounds of the 80's. I see it in clothing too. Why the hell not have Megatron as a gun? Oh yeah, b/c a friggin TANK is more gentle and peaceful and less destructive. I want to go out and buy TF on DVD right now. So many memories....
SHOULD be a VW Beetle!!!!!!!!!!! Or atleast a car that looks like one.
IS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRANSFORMERS. If you want to make it a part of it somehow atleast respect the source material and make it the real Bumblebee.
I won't go see it. That's not a fanboy-threat, I'm just not interested in an update of the concept. The money-men must choose: make a film for the old fans OR new potential customers.
I agree with Bryan, a movie of this magnitude that deals with this kind of genre where robots transform into vehicles NEED to evoke emotion and they are moving in the right direction with the eye/pupil change. Now I hope that Bay/Spielberg goes further and enhances the emotional connection to the Transformers with their body language. Now I understand that all of you fans want to keep every single detail of the originals in place but sometimes it just doesn't work in a live-action two-hour movie and would end up being more silly than entertaining, look when they made the changes to Spiderman regarding the organic web shooters, X-men uniforms, Batman
I think what the prequels missed most was FUN, not depth. A cool voice goes a long way, see V for Vendetta. Plus, they're robots (in disguise) not humans, so easy on the emotions OK?
...they build some big giant motherfucking transforming Transformers! Screw the cgi! Get someone to build big giant robots that talk, kick ass and turn into Porsches...fuck ILM, PDI, DD or whoever, I want my good old analogue thrills and spills back! GIVE ME REAL BIG REAL ROBOTS DAMMIT!
No not OK, first of all. Regarding why Episode 3 sucked, I said it was one of the reasons NOT the main reason. You stated the prequels missed most was FUN, well don't you think that part of that fun stems from having interesting characters that are unique ala personality and EMOTION? Perfect example is The Empire Strikes Back. Second of all, you need more than just a
Autobots good, Decepticons bad. Hulk smash. Think less 'Bridges of Madison County', and more 'Snakes on a Plane'!
Downplay the emotions huh, why don't we just not make the Transformers talk at all and all they do is fight for two hours. Boorrrriiinnnngggggg.
Many of the other voices have since passed away, so recasting is needed. BUT... if Optimus Prime is NOT red, then someone fucked up horribly.
Think about it. Just sit back and listen to those two guys speak and think about it.
as in Megatron being pure evil and hateful, Starscream jealous, Autobots friendly, etc. But I want visors & mouthpads, not pupils and lips! And please, easy on the talking (seriously, Bay is directing)!
Just what the hell does this hack think Darth Vader was able to do throughout the star wars movies? Give me a break! I swear to Christ, his ego is the reason he's such a hack director. I'm going to go take a valium, now.
Adapting a cartoon is just about at his level of accomplishment.
Don't make it kiddie fodder, but something kids can enjoy. The Transformers were aliens that were at war after all. If Bay and Spielberg have any sense, they could make this the next Star Wars.
I'd have faith in changes he'd make. Please surprise me mr. Bay!
i seriously cant wait. big giant robots knocking seven shades of shit out of each other in live action. starscream better have his voice and quite frankly if i see the dinobots im going to have a geekgasm
is he learned how to write from the master, harry knowles. its too bad he didn't have a better mentor or maybe an editor to help him out here
Having Spielberg on as a hands-on producer gives me some confidence that Bay will make his best movie yet. Michael Bay is next years Brett Ratner.
Dont these things have rectangular eyes? I think its going to seriously change the faces with circular irises, but maybe thats just me. Oh, and the idea of taking the red out also disturbs me. Anyone ever notice HOllywood's sudden aversion to depict the red, white, and blue on screen anymore?
I'm just curious--is it that hollywood shuns primary colors or something?
"The human element"?? WE DON'T NEED A "HUMAN ELEMENT". What we NEED is for Bay to stop fucking with what made the series great, and veer away from the Armada shit and current slant on Transformers. Gee golly, little Timmah's first car! Wow. I'm stoked. Keep the glowing eyes, make Optimus RED, and stop stirring the formula with your dick, Bay. Jesus Christ, why thee fuck can't these guys just connect the dots instead of using white out...
April 24, 2006, 9:38 a.m. CST
by GravediggerJones
...the story. Say what you like about Bay but he can deliver great action sequences. I'm not worried about that. After watching The Island, what I'm worried about is that his enthusiasm for creating thrilling action sequences will overshadow the need to create a smart and engaging story. When his films don't work, I think that more often than not, this is the problem.
Stop nitpicking over eyes and nipples and faceplates. Some of you guys are fucking laaaaaame. Your getting a big budget transformers movie. Be happy. The original is 20 years old and dated. I say bay can change little details all he wants as long as stays loyal to the spirit of the original. Too bad the guy who voiced starscream is dead. Starscream was a bitch but was my favorite toy.
Now if they can get Pat Lee to design the posters for the film...
Transformers really brings 'em out of the woodwork. The truth is, folks, this may be the movie Michael Bay was BORN to direct. Big vehicles, big guns, big robots, not too many humans that he has to develop characters for? He was put on earth for this purpose.
Character-design is pretty important, don't you agree? Just like the voice-work you're mentioning. Transformers isn't Bay's property and I seriously doubt he's a fan, so he'd better figure out if this will be a film for the fans (and cater to them) or to promote new toys.
THAT would be nitpicking. If he ain't red I ain't buying the sweater.
April 24, 2006, 10:44 a.m. CST
by R.C. the "Wise"
If they don't go with the original V.O's they should, no must cast one of these five for Optimus Prime. As for Megatron, Frank Langela would be waaay big!
I saw the first Bad Boys movie in highschool and thought it was decent and entertaining. When I was in college The Rock and Armageddon I thought were the two coolest action films I'd ever seen. Hilarious and loaded with kick ass action. Then came Pearl Harbor which was not a good movie for Bay. As a result it stunk. Having Ben Affleck with his atrocious southern accent didn't help. But again the action was stellar. Then came Bad Boys II. c A return to form for the director that was non-stop action and fun but a movie I found a little juvenile and actually morally depraved. I attribute this to my growth as a person mostly but still thought it was a step backward for Bay. Then last summer was The Island, which got hammered by critics but I actually really enjoyed. I thought it was picked on for no reason. Some of the logic of the film wasn't there but to me it was a return of the michael Bay I began to enjoy with The Rock and Armageddon. When I heard Bay was doing Trnaformers I lit up. Brilliant choice. with speilberg holding his hand thiscould easily be a generation defining film that doesn't step all over the original fans of the previous generations. This movie is going to kick ass!
That everyone on here who says that they dont like Michael Bay would've said that before they were talkbackers. Everyone I know who loves MOVIES (which is what this site is, not FILMS) came out of the Rock and Armageddeon having a great time. Then you guys developed egos and didn't want to look uncool and he made Pearl Harbor (which was shit) and started to hate Michael Bay. He is probably the best Action Movie director out there right now. And our summers are blessed to have him.
And you're absolutely right: Michael Bay and Transformers IS indeed a perfect match. Sounds very promising and i'm sure Bay will deliver a great Transformers movie. Can't wait.
What kind of car was Bumblebee??? Who do you think the vehicle was that Optimus Prime was chasing? WHAT COLOR?
Colour doens't mean shit to these people, OPTIMUS isn't RED? My God I want Optimus to be like the 20th aniversiry toy... But I can kind of understand why they "think" they should give transformers lips and pupils but why on EARTH change Optimus prime's colour????
...EXACTLY like they did in the 80s cartoon, they recently re-released those on DVD. I loved the cartoon, but I don't want to see it rehashed in live action/CGI format. That would bore the ever-loving fuck out of me. If the character designs are somewhat streamlined from the way tehy looked in the 80s toon (which, in most cases, were substantially different from the way the toys looked) then so be it. Anyone seen the Alternators toys? Same characters. Same names. Different looks. And they pretty much rock. I will agree that there should be some red in Prime's upper body. That would be great. But it's not a deal breaker. And if they keep Megatron as a gun, I'd love to see him roughly human sized in robot mode so that one of the jet Decepticons can actually hold and fire him in gun mode without some megical size change going on. How Napoleonic would that be? And no giant cassete decks, either. That would just reek of cheese. Folks speaking out against changes or adapting the franchise to fit the story obviously haven't been paying attention to the toy line (which has been going strong) since the 80s. There are a crapload of toys with Optimus Prime's name on them, and remarkably few look anything like the iconic version from the 80s cartoon. Ditto Megatron. If there's one thing Transformers have consistently been about over the last twenty-some years, it's change. Deal with it. Or don't. Like I said...the DVDs are available. And you can probably score some of the original toys on eBay if you're willing to forego some niceties like food and a roof over your head.
...that kick ass car advert!
Otherwise it sounds fantastic. I actually think Michael Bay is the PERFECT director to tackle this material. I just really hope the human element doesn't ruin what could be a great (and epic) robot wars film.
I'm just saying, don't overthink things. Why make the rebots with expressive eyes? Why change the colors? Sometimes the best 'Snakes on a Plane' is to just have snakes on the mother fuckin' plane!
April 24, 2006, 1:01 p.m. CST
by moviemaniac-7
entertainment. But Pearl Harbor might be one of the biggest big-budget disasters ever put on film. What a bunch of crap. Armageddon had a decent first half, but a catastrophic second half. Bad Boys 2 was direct-to-dvd stuff, but the first one was entertaining. I think Bay might be the right guy for Transformers. Hell, I'd even give him GI Joe The Movie in a heartbeat.
April 24, 2006, 1:12 p.m. CST
by Doc_Strange
They should update them to make them look a bit more contemporary. Remember, the vehicles they used in the cartoon took place in the 80s and the movie took place in 2005. So to keep with the sensibilities of design, they would need to update the vehicle designs to make them more relevant to 2006. I still think they should be the same vehicles, however. Prime's gotta be a big friggin truck, no question about it. Bumblebee has to be a VW bug or something similar. Oh and no eyes or pupils, or stupid face masks period. The beauty of the Transformers, Prime especially is that they can emote without having superfluous facial features. Want proof? Check out Prime's death scene in the movie. That scene alone scarred for me for life until they brought him back, where he died again, or so everyone thought. then they triumphantly brought him back permanently, thank God.
I'm not a big fan of Michael Bay, but he is perfect for this movie. I'm sold.
1/2 of a good movie. I nominate M. Night for "Never Let Me Go."
April 24, 2006, 1:53 p.m. CST
by Mr Brownstone
is fucking crazy.
Not a fan of his work because I felt his style never fit the piece he was creating... Except THE ISLAND... which still wasn't 100%, but this seems right where he should be. Giant robots beating the crap outta eachother.
Fuqua for his Tears of the Sun and a dash of the good aspects of King Arthur, Ridley for...everything he's done.
Seriously, this will be a bloated toy commercial.
Did they ever explain, either in the cartoon or the comics, why these futuristic robots are designed to turn into vehicles only found on earth. I.E. Volkswagon Beetles? Not makking a lot of sense really. It would be nice if they addressed that in the movie.
it's been reported that a Starblazers film is soon to be in the works.
But I'd be lying if I didn't admit that just reading these descriptions got me jazzed. With the eyes, they could always use the emotive feature for closeups and make them glowing from far off (which I think would be equally dramatically useful). Aside from the fear that George Clooney or some similar tool will end up playing Prime (don't let the original voice auditions fool ya), I must say I really dislike vehicles and robots that are designed with super sleek edges (such as the more recent TF designs) - Japanese/"futuristic". The more boxy forms give the characters a sense of weight and presence and also a more iconic feel. The sleek designs tend to make everything too similar with distinguishing features being colors and small details or the designs just get equally wacky in the opposite direction (such as Beast Wars). Just my opinion - don't mess with icons. You don't step on Superman's cape, and you don't mess around with Optimum Prime's design! Also, I always liked the idea of Prime's face mask being removed a la a samurai.
When the robots are being revived after crash landing on Earth, they adapt to native mechanical forms they can transform into as a method of disguise. They are war machines, so it's adaptability to the environment for defensive purposes.
your name sucks, but to answer your question, in the first episode of the Transformers cartoon, after the Autobots' spacecraft reawakens, it sends out a satellite-like device that scanned various cars and trucks, storing their designs. In order to "pass," the Autobots' vehicle forms were modified to reflect Earth vehicles.
Those vehicles are still on the road. The issue of course though is the always present looking cool over storytelling. I always liked the idea of their vehicle modes reflecting their personalities. If they all look like fake futuristic inspired vehicles that is boring.
April 24, 2006, 2:10 p.m. CST
by crazyeyezkillah
Sure, they've got guns, and a few turn into guns, tanks, etc, but they're not war machines. They're just machines, robots.
are fighting a civil war and have been in a state of civil war for centuries when they make it to Earth. Then they continue their war here.
I didn't know Affleck was there... (cue drum crash!)
He was a headmaster ala Metroplex and just as big. I remember having him and him being my biggest guy. If they can make the jets transform as cool as they do in the movie The Returner, then I have faith this will look cool. Good luck Mr. Bay, you'll need it.
...without making them futuristic, superninja. About 25 years have gone by since those first Transformer cars came out. The Datsun is a freakin' reare beast to see on the road these days, as is the Countach. And in updating the vehicle modes, the looks of the robots are going to change slightly as well. It happens.
I don't have much of an emotional attachment to Transformers, so I'm not going to cry over Michael Bay making a bad movie about them. But I did love the show as a kid. I think they should at least keep the robot heads close to the ones we loved as kids. Obviously they are going to want to change other things to make them look more real or contemporary or whatever, that's to be expected. But giving them human eyes and mouths is just silly. They were able to express emotion in the cartoons without pupils or mouths. Gromit doesn't have a mouth and he does fine. To make robots that don't even look the same is kind of like that terrible American Godzilla movie where the monster didn't look like Godzilla. What happened with that? It probably made money but was widely despised, never even got close to a sequel and the monster was summarily executed to enthusiastic applause in Godzilla: Final Wars. I say if you're going to make a Transformers movie, at least have the balls to admit you're making a Transformers movie. Also, can I have a cameo as one of those guys with the construction helmets?
In the two part episodes where the Arialbots went back into time and met the "younger" Optimus he had no faceplate, he had lips, which had no problem telling the arialbots to lay off his "girl". That's precedent that his mask may not be his face. It's also precedent that as transformers age, they change. I don't know how, if it's a rebuilding thing or a cheesy cartoon "glowing then morphing" change or what, but Optimus definatly started out the transformer equivilent of a 98-pound weakling. So Shea is driving Bumblebee? That must mean he's Spike. Soundwave has to be in the movie because he was Megatron's "True" second in command. I just hope he not an iPod. There's another question, have they considered the "shrinking" aspect? It worked when we were kids in the cartoon, but on the big screen would it be as cool to watch a 3 story sized robot shrink to the size of something you can hold in your hand? Megatron shrinked when he changed into the gun and I always wondered as a kid why Starscream didn't just crumple him up when he was that size.
Noooo dont fuck with the eyes,i really hope Soundwave is in it he was always my favourite i didnt even know tony bacala was dead,h well cant be too hard to so soundwaves voice but i hope they get all the original voice actors.The only humans i want to see in this are ones geting stomped on by big fuckin robots,who gives a shit about optimus and co emoting with their eyes,its a transformers movie big robots whaleing on each other for 2 hours,job done,perfect,in the bag.Please Mr Bay dont fuck around with this Jimmys first car or whatever bullshit just have them blow shit up, stick to what your good at its the perfect movie for him surely.
Noooo dont fuck with the eyes,i really hope Soundwave is in it he was always my favourite i didnt even know tony bacala was dead,h well cant be too hard to so soundwaves voice but i hope they get all the original voice actors.The only humans i want to see in this are ones geting stomped on by big fuckin robots,who gives a shit about optimus and co emoting with their eyes,its a transformers movie big robots whaleing on each other for 2 hours,job done,perfect,in the bag.Please Mr Bay dont fuck around with this Jimmys first car or whatever bullshit just have them blow shit up, stick to what your good at its the perfect movie for him surely.
Wasn't it because the satellite assumed vehicles were the dominant species on the planet as well since there were no humans around? Had it scanned humans, it wouldn't have worked. And yeah, not all of the Transformers are warriors. They were basically a normal planet, but some Cybertronians felt there should be a regime change, hence the Decpeticons being born. The Autobots are like our armies, but not all of them can fight.
apologies for the double post
If they cut that out, it may as well be Jurassic Park with robots. We have to feel bad for and despise some of these characters because of what they say and how they react. People seriously will need to know why Starscream is a backstabber as opposed to just knowing he's a backstabber.
and ironically, probably the only transformer I didn't own. I thought I should mention that for some reason. Now for the topic at hand... change. Pepole arguing for changes forget one major detail.. when has hollywood ever changed something for the better? Never. If it aint broke, don't fix it. As for giant giant robots changing into small objects. It can be done on the big screen, the same way they did it in the tv show. Make it happen, don't explain why it happens, it's just one of those things. If the story is any good, no one will care.
April 24, 2006, 4:16 p.m. CST
by quadrupletree
What no images Quint??? What's up with that?
No one cares about your opinion on ROTS a year after the fact. You lost, deal with it. Anyway, if Volkswagen really said no to the beetle being used in the film they are crazy. Bumblebee would sell millions of cars for them! And the only voice actor they must have from the cartoon is Frank Welker. It would be nice to have some of the others as well but he's the only indispenseble one as far as I'm concerned. And the Autobot and Decepticon characters must be given as much focus, if not more, than the humans. And we must see them leave Cybertron millions of years ago and land on Earth and wipe out the dinosaurs. That is all.
I'm afraid they will do what so many other have done - take the original premise and change it JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. After all, they have to do something to earn those nice big checks - if they just use the model sheets from the early 80's, as well as the plots from the comics and cartoons that has made Hasbro/Marvel a bucket of money they would not be able to "improve it." Oh, and LOST SPOILERS on my site: DON'T CLICK UNLESS YOU WANT TWO (SOME SAY THREE) MAJOR DEATHS TO BE SPOILED! http://tinyurl.com/qdg7k
Well, duh. But let me just elaborate. Obviously I do not literally mean they have to be a Datsun. Just some car of similar type and style. In other words, not the marketing guy's model #154 on their manufacturer cross marketing target list for this film. What I am particular about is making them all look modern, bland and generic in that way Hollywood is excels at. Think for a moment of the travesty that the "modern" Bond car has become.
is on the project, this will not turn into a bunch of anti-war drivel with a message. But then there is that Speilberg component...
...need to grow up. Of course many things will be changed. This movie will have to be set to please both the old and new fans alike. Kids will walk into the theatre not knowing about the 80's cartoon whatsoever and enjoy the fuck out of the movie. Sure, some fanboys will complain about purity, but give me a break... nothing from a book/cartoon/comic/last decade will ever be made into a movie tomorrow and stay true to the original, it's always been like this, it always will. As for Bay, what's wrong with him?
I agree there is a point at which fanboy purity becomes flat out obnoxious (Matrix, Star Wars, LOTR). However, when you are dealing with iconic characters (and they are) you risk a lot by changing elements that resonate with the audience and endear them to people in general. There is a reason that whatever all these elements were that came together made these characters survive for so long. I don't think anyone is really concerned about minor tweaks, but rather changes that are really creating new characters and different stories and then having the nerve to call them Transformers. Faithful adaptations rarely fail to attract the old audience and a new audience as well making something generational. However, real deviations tend to fail and disappoint everyone. One example would be to take Optimus Prime, who is essentially John Wayne as a robot, and making him into Neo from the Matrix because it's cooler. Get it?
...you have to realize that as you get older, things tend to change, and the Transformer of yesteryear must adapt to relate to the audiences of tomorrow.
...a superninja. How fucking surreal. Look, man, I was simply pointing out that updating the vehicle modes does not necessarily mean hovercars or whatever you meant by futuristic, which you arbitrarily set up as the sole alternative to the classic vehicle modes, completely ignoring the ever-present compromise between past and future. Similarly, you seem to think that any update of the robot modes is going to take them right to modern, bland and generic. Life doesn't have to be a constant swing between extremes. There is room for compromise and moderation. Unless you're bipolar or something, in which case I apologize.
Which when you think about it are not that different. Hopefully they can pull it off.
Glad to see your sense of humor is intact. All I'm saying is that I don't want them all showing up looking like a bunch of crappy BMW clones and Stealth Fighters. It's the same design flaw that sucked with the New Star Wars trilogy. Of course, Clint says that they will looked "lived in" so I will take their word for it.
As opposed to people named Terry_1978 with apparently nothing in the way of imagination and beating up geeks from behind his monitor. You go, Terry!
That voice is iconic as hell. Once people hear that voice on the big screen trailer they're gonna flip out! To change it to some paycheck actor is like having Bugs Bunny voiced by Chris Tucker. Every other voice to me could be up in the air..however if Peter Cullen returns as Optimus a LOT fans will go to bat for this film guaranteed!!! Sounds pretty good to me so far..However this voice acting shit scares me..He doesn't want the robots to sound old? Uh, Mike these guys are professional voice actors who are PAID can manipulate their voices to sound however you want..that friggin Tony the Tiger was was fucking ancient and did that voice for years..Besides how "old" should an "alien robot" sound? 20 yrs old? 15? It's a fucking robot!
...superninja. Especially if we're talking about super sophisticated giant robot engines of destruction from another planet who feel the need to hide from people they could pretty well wipe out without expending too much energon. It's an "enjoy the ride" proposition if ever there was one.
If it's just enjoy the ride then why do 99.9% of all adventure/action films these days suck? They work really hard to make the ride part fun, but you don't care about the characters, there is no real story, and maybe it's because some other elements are necessary to make the ride really enjoyable? Who wants to waste time and money for more assemblyline crap? There is a mythological element to the characters that is appealing in the same way it would be watching 300.
You saw Pearl Harbor, didn't you? That movie was an Abortion performed with a coat hanger...
In the very first episode of Transformers when the ARK, the Autobots ship, gets reactivated during an earthquake, it sends out a probe to scan the planets native lifeforms. The ship mistakenly believes that the various vehicles and other machinery, radios, guns, etc. are the Earths dominate species. So in order to allow the Autobots, and unfortunatly the Decepticons, to be able to blend in with the natives it modifies thier transformation modes to mimic the dominate species of earth.
- and then he eats all the snazzy, updated, sleek, non-bulky, CGI looking Transformers, and spits out the hand-drawn animated 80s retro transformers and off you go.
Optimus Prime's left headlight exactly the right size or this movie will fucking be RUINED!!! PLEASE ACCURATELY ADAPT THIS CARTOON ABOUT ROBOTS AND EXPLOSIONS SERIOUSLY AND WITH RESPECT FOR THE HALLOWED CANON!!! MAKE SURE THE CLICKING SOUND THE ROBOST MAKE WHEN THEY TURN IN CHEVY CITATIONS IS 100% FAITHFUL TO THE ACTUAL CLICKING AND WHIRRING SOUND USED IN EPISODE #8F133!!! OR ELSE YOU SHALL BE SMOTE!!
But I don't have the patience to read all the way down. I personally have hated every Bay movie I've seen since Pearl Harbor, but I'm actually a little encouraged by this article. First we should consider that the whole face plate on Prime is something Bay's designers have borrowed from later incarnations e.g., Beast Wars. Born in itself from a need to make Optimus emote more (eyes only to show emotion versus eyes and mouth really ARE a big difference). It also seems like he's borrowing some ideas from the now defunct Dream Wave comics TF series which was predominantly fueld by much fanboy love: their "Issue #0" begins the storytelling in the antarctic with some multi-gillionaire who is trying to dig out a decepticon or something like that. Further, in an attempt to harmonize the cartoon Bumblebee with the toy, DreamWave also adopted the idea of "face plate" which I actually thought was really cool. We got to see the Bumblebee we grew up watching but at the same time got to see the Bumblebee we SHOULD have grown up watching too. All in all it really does sound like Bay is considering the fan base. Although I'm in agrement that auditioning Cullen for Prime is like auditioning Jones for Vader. As for the whole "kid and his first car" thing goes, I think that's kind of smart. When I was but a lad, I certainly wouldn't have had a problem with going to see giant robots kicking the crap out of each other. But as I grow older, the one thing that makes the franchise still accessable to me is the HUMANITY aspect. Not necessarily in Spike/Sam (who really cares?) but in the mighty robots themselves. Starscream and his relationship with Megatron is as MacBethian (is that a word?) as they come. Fundamental greed for power. And Prime's motto about freedom and sentience may as well be Hamlet in my opinion. They are transforming robots sure, but we like them because they're PEOPLE. As misguided as I think Bay is with the whole kid n' first car thing, I still think he's tapping into something thematically that he'll need if he wants to win me over. Clearly I am biased...
...I'm a huge X-Men fan, Spidey fan, Star Wars fan, Daredevil fan, Batman fan, etc. etc... and I don't get worked up about a lot of changes there. X-Men costumes are all black? Eh, why not? Organic webshooters? Good idea! Kingpin's black and killed DD's father? Well, it's a movie, there are bound to be things changed. ..... But ..... For some fucking reason the idea of Optimus fucking Prime with metal irises, no red, and a less blocky shape kinda makes me wanna punch something. You don't fuck with Prime, god damn it.
I think a dark/serious Transformers movie would be best but I'm betting it'll be a kid-friendly movie with plenty of lame one liners. And why
how much secret sh!t is buried under Antarctica? We've got the Aliens/Preditor pyramid, the UFO from X-Files, the ship from National Treasure and probably a dozen more things I'm missing. It's like a lost and found for aliens and treasures.
Even suggesting that he should have any other colour scheme shows a complete lack of understanding his significance. Prime is an archetype for the ideal great american leader - strong, benevolent, wise and still a supreme ass kicker. Prime is as much a symbol of America's ideals as superman, for the 80's kid generation at least. Playing with Prime's colour scheme is as dumb as playing with Superman's. Someone needs to show Bay the "Prime wins the election" Photochop before he fucks up and pisses off the entire fan base.
Why did Revenge of the Sith make so much money? Because they used the Darth Vader image like crazy in all of the advertising. A design that was 28 years old, but still perfect. Although the Episode 3 Darth Vader does kind of suck compared to the Original Trilogy, the differences are subtle but they're noticable. As far as The Transformers goes, Optimus Prime was designed perfectly already. He CAN'T be improved. If they change his look and change his voice then he is Optimus Prime in name only. Kind of like the people in the world who have your exact name. They don't look like you or sound like you, but they have your name. Does this make sense to you Michael Bay?
I so totally wanted to make this damn movie. Unfortunately, even Michael Bay seems to have a leg-up in the industry over some never-been, no-career having bitch like me. What a world, huh? Anyway... if anyone gives a dead rat's ass (and even if you don't,) here's what I wanted to do with this movie. It opens on Cybertron, where the war between the Autobots and Decepticons is still raging, though soon to end. It's taken it's toll on the planet and on the robots from all the eons spent battling each other. The Autobots have nearly lost the war. They're fewer in numbers and not quite the fighters the Deceps are. They attempt a make-or-break ambush on Megatron, but the attack is turned around on them. Now that the Deceps have finally won the war, Megatron (who IS a tank, by the way,) declares out of "honor" for the beaten warriors that the Autobots are officially exiled from the planet. They all have to get on a ship and leave Cybertron forever. Any remaining will be killed on sight. Starscream immediately accuses Megatron of not having the courage to destroy them all now that they've lost, but M-tron tells him the plan is to get all the Autobots out of hiding and into one place (their ship) where the Deceps can kill them all in one fell swoop. So the Bots get on the Ark and take off, Megatron and his best Deceps attempt to destroy the ship, but Optimus (being the brilliant leader) has anticipated this and gets the first shot out at the attacking Deceps. The Deceps have to board the Ark to finish the job, the battle continues hand-to-hand on the ship. Prime orders the weaker Autobots to escape the ship (which is almost all of them - only about seven major Autobot characters stay to fight - I knew the script wouldn't keep every character in the movie, which I assumed correctly.) Shit gets out-of-hand, the Ark veers off-course and crash-lands on Earth (just like the original cartoon pilot.) Everybody's knocked-out and near dead (or off-line), except for StarScream, who's just knocked out but was laying low on the ship (to avoid hand-to-hand combat, 'cause he's all talk and full of shit when it comes to action.) So he's the first to come back online after the Ark crashes in Texas. (I relocated the story from Oregon. I have my reasons.) So SS is online and spends a little time researching the Earth, it's inhabitants, it's machines, it's history, it's languages (no, the robots don't speak English on Cybertron,) and he finally decides to use Teletran-1 to redesign himself and the Decepticons to his specifications. They're brought to life and he declares he's the new leader of the Decepticons because he resurrected them all, redesigned them, and he knows the planet Earth, so they all need to listen to him, because he's got plans to conquer the place seven ways to Sunday. They exit the Ark, then SS shows everyone another little change he made with his new leadership - he's had Megatron redesigned from the titanic battletank he used to be into Starscream's personal sidearm. He shouts some verbal code that triggers M-tron's transformation into the gun against his will; in effect, making Megatron his bitch, 'cause now he can only transform at SS's order, and it's into a friggin' gun. Anyway, SS uses Megatron to fire a shot at the Ark and the mountain it's stuck inside of, intending to destroy it, but instead, it reactivates Teletran-1 to continue the redesiging process SS started, rebuilding the remaining Autobots and bringing them back online. (Yeah, just like the original cartoon, again.) And since this ends the first act, and this post is getting retardedly long, I'll continue it in a second post. Stay tuned.
I too wanted to make this film. I never had any dilusions it would happen btw, just so's you know. But I would have made a rather drastic change to Cybertron. I wouldn't have had the 'characters' of the transformers on the world, rather a mechanical world that wants to infiltrate the Earth, so places 'robots in discuise' and the decepticon faction would also do the same. My twist would have been that the Autobots were the bad guys and the decepticons were just cleaning up the trash. When you actually watch the original early transformers cartoon, it was ALWAYS the autobots starting shit with the decepticons. I loved the hardcore brutal death of most all characters in the Transformers movie. man that shit fucked with my little head. So it would only be fare for me to fuck with all of your heads. I have other films that will though. stay tuned.
I didn't really like the original Megatron's voice from Generation 1. Leonard Nimoy's voice for Galvatron was good, though. Hiring him for the voice of the bad guy in this movie would be great, as it could also pull in Star Trek fans. Casey Kasem was a radio icon in the 80s, I believe, and I'm sure many older people will recognise his voice. He did the voice for Autobot Cliffjumper in the G1 cartoon. I recently recorded some audio clips from the TF movie for my audio production class. You can find them at this URL: http://tinyurl.com/p9bt8
So... the second act introduces the humans, Daniel and his dad Buster (Witwicky, if you must, but it probably wouldn't have been.) Buster is a widowed mechanic. A man's man. Daniel studies computers, science & technology. He's not a tough kid, and though he loves everything electronic, he's not necessarily mechanically inclined. This frustrates the hell out of Buster, who would like his son to follow in his mechanic footsteps and stop wasting all his time with all the highfalutin computer crap. Daniel tries to pass himself off as tougher than he really is, but it never "fits" him. A nerd is a nerd, even if he does try to apply himself a nickname... people tend to laugh when he tells them he goes by the name "Spike." So there's that. Spike and Buster - not exactly the perfect match of father and son. Meanwhile, Starscream's first act as the new Decepticon leader is to head to the Middle East to acquire as much of this planet's main source of fuel. As it just so happens, there's a war going on there between the residents of a certain country (not specified, but you get the idea) and American troops. The Deceps jump in and kick the asses of the side whose land contains the oil, which only helps the American forces, so it is quickly assumed that these amazing jet/robots are here to help the good guys, meaning the US. Megatron advises Starscream that the best strategy is to befriend the larger Superpower and use their friendship to their own advantage. In no time flat, CNN, Fox News, NBC, CBS and all the other major news outlets shout the story to the world that giant, "friendly" transforming robots have come to Earth and have befriended the US, aiding our fight against the War On Terror. (Yeah - the world believes the Decepticons are the good guys.) Back in Texas, as the Autobots are being revitalized, Optimus Prime has Blaster scanning Teletran-1 for just what the hell is going on in this world. They come across the news reports about the Deceps in the Middle East, and though they can't understand the report, they see the footage of the Decepticons "helping the army" and being welcomed and Starscream speaking to the Earthlings in their own language. Prime wants to do something about it, but the Bots are all still in pretty weak shape and still being put back together, so he knows it's too late and their screwed. About this time, Daniel stumbles on to the Autobots (I won't go into how,) and uses the dictionary and encyclopedia program in his laptop to help teach them the basics of the English language. From there, Teletran-1 is able to create a patch for all the Autobots to load into their programming to speak the language. Blaster and Spike (as he introduces himself to the Autobots and they accept without any irony) hack into Spike's credit card account and raise his credit limit by several thousands of dollars so the Autobots can go fuel up (or at least buy the gas, which they can turn into Energon back at the Ark.) Along the way, Spike gets to know Bumblebee and finds out some Cybertron history. Turns out the battle between the Autobots and the Decepticons is actually something like a religious war regarding what happens to the robots when they die. See, according to Cybertron's history, when you die, your parts live on. You're reassembled into a new robot. Or rather, new robots. You get recycled so that your "soul" is honored by helping to create a new life. But somewhere along the line, some robots decided that wasn't right. When you die, you should be laid to rest or destroyed and honored by your memory. Then new Transformers would be created, then they would die, then they'd be scrapped and then the next generation would come and so on and so on. Of course, the main problem with that is that resources on any planet are finite and eventually, if resources aren't reused, you'll run out of them. So those who believe in simply building the next generation decide other planets will have to be used as building materials for tomorrow's robots. That conquering other planets is just a necessary step in the continuation of their line. The ones who believed in the traditional, reuse/reincarnation plan became the Autobots. The conquering, bury-the-dead side became the Decepticons. And because of the Deceps' proliferation throughout Cybertron, their planets' resources are almost at zero. They've almost destroyed the planet because of their beliefs. And Spike realizes immediately that they'll do the same to Earth unless they're stopped. ***** So from there on goes the second act: The Decepticons are taken for friends by the free world, Megatron (who eventually is able to undo SS's "code-command" of his transforming function, kick the shit out of SS for it, and reclaim his leadership of the Deceps) has the world convinced the Autobots are the dangerous bad guys; the Autobots have to use their disguises to survive, while Spike and a few other humans help them out the best they can to save the world from the Decepticons when the world considers the Autobots the enemies all the while; Spike takes the Autobots on as friends (and once or twice gets to cruise around in a kick-ass Porsche or Ferrari to impress girls;) Megatron uses his celebrity and the goodwill of the US (as well as a Senator with Presidential aspirations to champion M-tron's causes into legislation) in order to steal the planet's resources out from under us; and Spike and the Autobots devise ways to use reusable fuels to power the Autobots instead of the fossil fuels the Decepticons become focused on. I know it sounds all Eco-friendly and tree-huggish --which I am not-- but it's hard to deny that reusable fuel sources make sense over the common fuels we've been using for the past hundred years. And anyway, amidst all the dynamics of the Decepticons' public facade, the Autobots non-welcome on Earth, Spike's friendship with the Autobots and his relationship with his father, there would be as many outrageous set pieces throughout the script involving battles, races, escapes, and chases (kind of like the one Quint says Bay is planning, which I have to admit I want to see - Bay sure can blow some shit up) as could be imagined. Now at this point, I know my script ideas will never be used, but I still wish I could've been the lucky bastard who got to write the thing. And in the Sequel, I would've brought in Circuit Breaker from the comic book. Anyone remember her? She was badass. And to anyone who actually read all this shit - hey, thanks for your time.
"G.I.Joe,A real american herooo," This movie was supposed to be in the works since the early 1990's.and still nothing.G.I Joe is like the godfather of action figures, like the Ramones is to punk.but this project has been passed over many times, the guy kassonoff was gonna helm the film, but chose to do another Mortal Kombat movie instead,and we know where that went.lol.My 2 cents: John Woo would have been the perfect director for the joes,but he's doing gay ass He Man instead. would the subject of terrorism be taboo for a joe movie? if not i hope they don't base it on that lame ass Sigma six cartoon. sorry Transfans,but i rather see a super squad take on a legion of doom (destro,zartan,firefly,etc.)than robots that can transform into a dvd player or microwave. (0:<
Woot! Quint I am so jealous m8! Let me guess, Optimus Prime dies again ;p I had all his models. Die cast on up. 450+ toys total collected. I can't wait!
What About the Iron GIANT? He has a face plate and he has NO pupils and everybody was sooooo in love with him! And LUXO that cute desk lamp that (pixar) doesn't even have a face! So Giving him pupils and lips is just Fucking with the original concept for NO reason. Good Animation and voice work is all you need!
...to these characters, superninja. But you know how many versions of the various myths in human history exist? Take the Greeks alone. Multiple versions of just about every god's origin. And that's not even accounting for the Roman versions of the same stories where the names were all changed and certain events were updated to fit that culture. What I'm saying is that there really isn't one "right" interpretation of these characters...and especially these characters. Go to any Transformer site out there and search for "prime." You'll see a boatload of Optimuses, not all of which look alike. And there's no one accepted version of the story of these characters, either. The 80s cartoon had its own continuity, which has little or nothing to do with the Cybertron/Armada or Energon continuities. The comics were different (and there were several different comic continuities). The closest thing we have today to the 80s continuity is the elusive backstory for the Alternators toys, which don't even really look much like their G1 counterparts (have you seen what that line passes off as Optimus Prime?). So the film makers have a LOT more leeway with this property than a few die-hard 80s toon fans are willing to give them before they're doing anything that flies in the face of all that's come before.
I think the Transformers wich the majority love are the ones from the G1 tv show not the comics not new armada crap! And they sould just adapt the 3 pilot episodes!
That is what we need!!!! You know what I hate is why does TF need a star cast. How many people did TF have...Spike Sparkpluge, the wheelchair guy and the crazy professor...that it i think? So what is Bernie Mack doing their? This is whats going to happen at one point the Autobots will loose the ability to drive by them selfs, needing oceans 13 to save the day! This is so easy to get right! I's jets and cars kicking the shit out of each other!
April 25, 2006, 11:26 a.m. CST
by rev_skarekroe
And if his voice is different I might as well just burn all my old Christmas photos and slit my wrists!
with the exception of Pearl Harbor. why complain about him? all of his movies dont try to be anything else. they are fun, over the top, popcorn movies. flashy visuals and awesome cars and hot chicks. what are you guys looking for, Seven Samurai? michael bay is better than any of the following hacks, Uwe Boll,Simon West,Jan DeBont and PT Anderson, yet you give those guys money. i would rather see the Island anyday over AVP or Bloodrayne. dont knock Bay, at least you know what you are going to get. Who better to showcase awesome cars? HARRY! I WANT YOU TO WATCH BAD BOYS II AND THE ISLAND AND PUT UP A REVIEW. I AM SURE YOU WOULS FIND SOME ENJOYMENT IN BOTH THOSE FILMS. GET A LOT OF POPCORN BAD BOYS II IS @ AND A HALF HOURS LONG!
Good point--In the original Star Wars, people had emotion for goddamn R2D2. The original transformers had flexible face plates that allowed them to narrow their eyes and open their mouths and that's about all they really needed. People will develop an emotional attachment to a stick figure, a ballpoint pen, or a basement fucking wall if you play it right. If the movie is good, the dialogue is good, and the character moments are meaningful, it doesn't matter how human looking the character is. It's about personality, not appearance.
I understand where you are coming from but I agree with the fellow who said G1 is where it's at. That's what the mythology is built on. Just my opinion, but all of the derivations that spun off the original series are not nearly as mythic as the original. Which is usually the case, eh?
are even interesting is in context of their history to the G1 Optimus Prime. In most cases, they are all poorer versions of the original anyway, much weaker in characterization and presence.
recent remaginings from the comic book series. Maybe they will include elements from that story as it also had a heavy military leaning. I can understand why - thinking of the art with a catacomb/tomb of giant robots will translate well visually. What was interesting about that story (which was executed rather poorly if I recall) was humans attempting to use the robots as weapons only to have it backfire on them to become pawns in the robot's civil war. It could be interesting if not handled too heavy-handed.
1) trying out Cullen, who just should have been given the damn job in the first place. 2) spielberg is involved. he is just light years better than bay, who is kind of a hack. 3) CYBERTRON. THE BAD 1) why is it that every movie like this has to happen in the arctic?? AvsP, DAY AFTER TOMORROW, etc. doesn't anything happen in the tropics? how unoriginal. 2) a DECEPTICON truck? i hope that means MOTORMASTER is in this film 3) a boy getting his first car??? where the hell is SPIKE?? 4) why would there be a decepticon scorpion? and if they all landed in the arctic (presumably where they held their war) why would said scorpion be in iraq? 5) should kids see this film? a scorpion skewering a soldier might be graphic. 6) why isn't the decepticon truck fighting prime instead of running? i remember MOTORMASTER stepping to PRIME with mad courage. he would lose, though. but at least he fought. 7. what's the dog all about??? yep, you guessed it. another action-heavy bay film full of effects and bereft of story. unoriginal arctic beginning, plot holes galore and mtv music video camerawork. what a fucking mess.
It seems most people here are ready to love or hate the movie and hating eachother for it. I'd like the movie to be as much as G1 as possible - but if it isn't, it's just not for me. That doesn't mean I'll want Bay dead or hate the people who did like it. NOW... TALKBACKERS! MERGE AND BECOME... OPINIONATOR!
I'm seriously trying to conceive of the ridiculous events that lead up to some random teenager ending up owning Bumblebee, and I just can't do it. How in fuck's name does Bumblebee end up on a used car lot? Why for fuck's sake would he allow himself to become the "slave" of some meatbag? Who for fuck's sake wrote something as stupid as this anyway? I'm sure there will be plenty to love about this movie, but Bumblebee being owned by some kid is just 10 kinds of dumb!
Wel, Bumblebee's a scout. I could, MAYBE, see how he could be sent on a mission to explore the planet and blend in.
I agree with the other talkbackers. I don't think you know what your talking about in this area of discussion. There is no need to be making any major/needless changes to these already existing characters from the original source material. If they need to update or tweak a few things here and there to get things brought up to speed for the year 2007 which this movie is going to be set in rather than 1986 then ok. I can understand that. But to change an iconic character's color or basic design or whatever else for no actual reason other than "This is how WE want him to look" is just a bullshit reason. We the people don't want to see YOUR f*****g version of the character. We want to see the actual character that we all grew up with and are familiar with. Thats what we want to see. That's the whole point of basing this movie on G1 to begin with. Do you think it's based on G1 because todays kids remember it fondly? They weren't even around then. This movie is supposed to be for us. And there is no reason why those same characters from G1 won't be just as well liked by todays youths that have never been introduced to them yet. You don't have to completely revamp a character and cater to the youngsters just because todays youths never saw the original ones that we had. This movie is supposed to be based on the original G1 Transformers. NOT the RID series. NOT the Armada series. NOT Beast Wars. But the original G1 series that all of us 80's kids grew up with. So since it's supposed to be based on G1 then that's what I want to be seeing on the big screen. I don't want to be seeing my childhood characters dramatically changed for todays kids and get an alternate take on them and all that bullshit. If they're gonna go do that then why base the movie on the G1 series at all? Make a freaking live action Transformers Armada movie and get it over with already if they're so worried about what little Billy thinks. Oh and I think there's a larger portion of the population that's more than just a "few die-hard 80s toon fans" Roland. Why do you think the original TF's have never died out? They've still managed to stick around in one form or another all of these years. And now were getting a movie thats supposed to be based on them. So eat that one buddy. Does that taste good? Hmmm.. yeah you like that don't ya? Want another one? Here ya go. You can have some milk with this one. Granted that the G1 cartoon,comics and whatever else does have different continuities or backstories.You were using that to back your argument earlier. But what's the one thing they all have in common? Give up? ALL THE CHARACTERS STILL LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!! Prime didn't look any different in the comics than he did on the cartoon. And neither did anyone else. So even though the continuities were different then as they still are now I see no reason go and start changing their basic character designs because some dickholes in the movie industry want to do their version of the story. Like someone said above " If it ain't broke don't fix it!"
"Giant fucking Robots, people!!!" Nice! This does sound promising though. Just saw the Rock the other night. Good flick. Armageddon, not bad, entertaining. Bad Boys, good shit. Other stuff, meh.
...how exactly have you demonstrated that I don't know what I'm talking about? All of my points are valid to the extreme and I even allowed for your particular feelings on the subject (you being a self-confessed die-hard 80s toon fan). Regardless of what you would like to believe, in the eyes of the property holders, the characters have no definitive looks. The names of the characters have been recycled throughout the life of the toy line and reassigned to robots that look nothing like the originals BY THE OWNERS OF THE FUCKING LICENSE. So do Takara and Hasbro not know what they're talking about either? And if you think they're allowing this movie to be made specifically to cater to some feeling of nostalgia you might have, you're pretty deluded. Sure, the recent resurgence in popularity of all things 80s probably got folks in Hollywood talking about this idea seriously, but the movie itself is several years late to truly cash in on that cultural phenomenon. The reason the movie's being made has much more to do with the fact that Transformers have remained a viable toy property (even when the pickings were slim here, they were doing gangbusters business overseas) regardless of what the characters look like. Kids (and many adults) have been buying the toys left and right. And that's ultimately who this movie is going to be aimed at...the kids and adults who will buy the toys (Spielberg ain't no dummy and he's worked with Lucas enough times to know a cross-marketing money machine when he sees one). They're going to try and get your money if they can by using the names of the G1 characters and making the robots resemble those characters in some way, because there's a greater chance you'll be among the many who will buy the toys that way. But they don't love you or really give shit one about your feelings on whether the movie captures Optimus Prime's look the way you believe it ought to be. How does THAT taste? Sucks to find out you're not the center of the universe, doesn't it?
Lets say I were going to create an I Love Lucy film. Throughout the entire process, I say that I am the biggest fan of the show, and that this movie is in and of itself for the fans, young and old alike. Now, if my first creative decision was to make sure that Lucy was a blonde and not a redhead, would that make any difference to you? Would the fans have a legitimate gripe, do you think?
"After all," I'd say,"the color of her hair isnt important--Its freaking Lucy, people!" My point, child, is that certain characters in fiction have iconic images.
Yes there have been many different versions of Transformers, but have you noticed that with each incarnation there have only been a handful of Transformers being sold. Compare that to the 1000 different G1 Transformers on the shelf at the height of their popularity. That leads me to believe that the new incarnations didn't sell so well, which is why hasbro didn't make too many of them. Not convinced? Take Beast Wars, probably the most successful of the post G1 Transformers, know any kid that owns an Optimus Primal? Nobody is interested in a new version of Transformers. People are interested in seeing OLD ones in a live action/cgi format. The prospect of seeing that is why the movie generating so much buzz. If they wanted updated Transformers, why not make a live action Transformers Armada movie? Because it's shit and nobody wants to see that.
Thumper: You're talking about a dynamic you claim to have witnessed and tracked to some extent in U.S. retail outlets (you aren't citing any sales trends or stats that I see). U.S. sales are a fraction of what's kept Transformers one of the most viable and long-lived toy properties in history. The Japanese have been eating them up in all flavors and they love their Armada/Energon/Cybertron cartoons (which I can't even watch because I think they're mind-numbingly dumb). Beast Wars was hugely successful when introduced in the states and many kids bought those toys (yes, I know several children who were actually looking forward to the recent rerelease of certain Beast Wars transformers, even though I personally never found that phase of the franchise appealing). You're arguing purely from your own perspective and assuming it's universally shared. I'm reminding you that it's not. Like I said, the ties to G1 in this movie are designed to drag more folks into the web of cross marketing. The characters won't look quite like you remember them (because you probably already have the toys of those characters in that form on a shelf in your shrine), but they'll be close enough that the company is betting you won't be able to resist. Moondoggy: if you honestly believe ANYONE in Hollywood who tells you they are making a movie by a fan and for the fans, you are PT Barnum's wet dream come true. With VERY RARE exception, Hollywood just wants your money (Spielberg has not proven himself an exception to that rule and Bay certainly hasn't). With a property film like this, box office is just the tip of the iceberg (as if any of you complaining about the look of Prime being slightly different will really boycott seeing a Transformers movie...your heads would explode). There's no extra money to be made in making the characters look just like existing toys. It's simple economics. And, especially when dealing with a property that has such a diverse and fractal fanbase, the wide-net economics are going to trump specific fan faction outcry every time.
Im not disputing the economics of a movie production. I agree with you, there will be and need to be changes to the characters for purposes of added believability, marketing, etc. However, given that, should they change the aspects of a character that make it iconic? As with batman, most people will never complain with batman's suit as long as it retains the iconic aspects of it. Similarly, most people will not complain about changes to Prime, so long as they retain the iconic aspects of said character. The problem, it seems, is that you wish to be able to tell us nerds to go screw ourselves when it comes to basic character designs and hold strictly to the economic side of things. Well, thats all fine and dandy, roland, but people still have a right to complain. If I followed your cynical, and frankly snide, commentary to its logical conclusion, I could never criticize any movie for changes made to established characters and stories. If you are the representative of the average movie attendee, Roland, i believe Peter Jackson could have saved himself a lot of money by simply changing hobbits to men and having Frodo and Sam die at the mountain of fire. AFter all, everyone already knows the books: whats the point of presenting something already known by millions of fans to the screen. What is the point of the imagery of the hobbits, since all we are really telling is the story of good v. evil. The point is, Roland, certain stories and characters have iconic images and plot points and I for one dont think its too much to ask for those images to be kept.
Im not advocating 100 percent character translation. I'm simply talking about maintaining something of his color scheme, and "mask." True, i'm also hesitant about eyeballs, but im willing to be open minded. However, just as conan the barbarian needs to be muscular and have a full head of hair, Optimus prime needs to be masked and red/blue. There are just certain aspects you CANNOT take away from a character.
because I don't have any. I'm just simple logic that if they are as popular as you say, there would have been a lot more of them. How many beast wars character were there? Compare that to number g1 transformers that were out there. Think about other successful toylines out like G.I. JOE or pokemon. Toy companies saturate the market if the toys are successful. If all they are concerned about is selling toys, then I can tell you right now that the movie will be a failure. But even if the toy angle is all they are going for, wouldn't it make more sense to update the toy line to match the characters more closely? The old toys were poorly detailed, and by updating the toy designs, you create a win-win situation. Sort of what Lucas did for the star wars figures. Fans get the characters the love, toy companies get a new line of transformer toys to sell. Everyone wins.
...anyone (nerd, geek or otherwise) to go screw him or herself, moondoggy? I'm simply boiling it down to the harsh reality of Hollywood adaptations in general and reminding Transfans (of whom G1 80s toon exclusivists make up a relatively small portion given the comparative populations of Japan and the United States alone) that if the characters in this forthcoming movie are even 70% reminiscent of the icons they hold so dear from that bygone era, they should count themselves fortunate. Because, based on the history of the line alone, Optimus Prime could've ended up a fire truck...or a gorilla...or any number of perfectly fucking legitimate interpretations of the character that do not match the very strictly defined parameters many of these complainers are outlining. And based on Hollywood's track record with this sort of thing, he could've ended up any number of things he never was in toy form during any iteration of the line. If Prime's a truck, be happy. If he looks remotely like you think he ought to look (windows on the chest, smokestacks ont he arms, etc.) rejoice. Not every beloved pop-culture adaptation has been treated so well by Hollywood. But don't try and kid yourself that you won't go and see this movie if Prime isn't essentially a stack of red, blue and silver boxes in robot mode...or if he takes of his "battle mask" and you can see his lips...or even if he has eyeballs. Because you know that's horseshit. Phase one of the pan to get your money has already worked. By virtue of how important this character obviously is to you, you're going to see this movie based solely on the fact that it's called Transformers and it has Prime in it. If you bothered to review my earlier posts on the subject, you'd see I started out by saying it was not sacrelige to make the various Autobots transform into different, more modern vehicles for a movie set in the modern day. I suggested that streamlining the robot modes somewhat wouldn't necessarily mean taking away the character traits (physical and personality) that those characters displayed (in any number of media). The responses I got, many of which indicated any change from the way the characters looked in the 80s cartoon, were what prompted the later "tough love" posts. All were still addressing the same point, though...which you clearly missed. Oh, and your comparison to Jackson and Lord of the Rings is hardly apt or apples to apples. There is one version of the Lord of the Rings source material from the official source (Tolkien). And Jackson deviated from that in several key aspects that in NO WAY detracted from the experience of the films (which were, rightly, a separate entity from the books). There have been MANY official iterations of Transformers and Optimus Prime from the same official source (Takara and Hasbro) over the last 25 or so years. The 80s toon was a licensed interpretation of one version of that source material (like a cartoon about muppets, its an extra step removed from reality). Who are you to say which interpretation of which official alternate Transformer reality is the right one? If you don't like where Bay ends up, skip the movie. I dare you.
Is it just me, or would this be a great fit? Buscemi has a Michael Bay history, and since the original Starscream isn't around anymore (Chris Latta is deceased), Buscemi just might have an annoying enough voice to pull off the evil robot fella. Plus he's got the chops. I dunno... what do u think?
There have been many, many different incarnations of Superman. He's worn black and silver, he's been made of electricity, he's had a red and black log, a red and yellow logo, etc. etc. His powers have changed at least as much, in his first iteration he didn't even fly. And, of course, people who actually buy Superman comics are a tiny part of the Superman viewing audience. All this in mind, it would be fucking stupid if they made Superman's cape grey and gave him a mask. :) I admit, Optimus Prime is not superman, but he has a certain cultural presence, *particularly* among the people most likely to waste their disposable income on this movie and its associated products.
...comparison, brox. That's where you just go completely off the tracks. Where in Quint's discussion of the character sketch of Optimus do we get the sense that something that drastic is being done? The most glaring points I've heard complained about were the SEEMING absence of red in the design, the less boxy appearance, the possibility he will be shown withoput the ninja-esque face mask at some point in the film and that he might have simulated robotic eyeballs. This is what folks are losing it over. Getting back to your SUperman comparison, you'll note that they have tweaked the Superman costume for the new film and that decision's being met with similarly baffling resistance (the tweaks being so minor that you might not even notice them on first look) from a die-hard few "purists" who apparently aren't as familiar with the character as you or I, otherwise they'd know how much worse things could have been (he could've had hockey hair, for fuck's sake). But if we were to follow your analogy to the place it logically should have gone, say they'd decided to give us black and silver Supes or even red/blue lightning Supes. I'd be making the same argument that anyone claiming: "That's not Superman!" is taking an extremely narrow view of the character. But since you brought up a gray cape and mask, note how the viewing public (by and large) was able to readily embrace movie Batman's new icon status despite the distinct difference between his appearance on film and the way he's looked for most of his history in the comics. How unfortunate would those people have been if they'd let the different look of the character in Begins (or even in the Burton movies, which were good for the time and in their own ways) dissuade them from seeing the film? They'd have missed out on what many agree is a good and even "definitive" take on the character. Just another example of how "definitive" doesn't always have to mean "first" or even "most familiar." Think about it.
I was speaking figuratively about your telling the fans to go screw themselves. Sure, you werent literally saying so, but you were being condescending. And again, I understand your cynicism concerning movies' adaptations (or lack there of) with pre established material. However, Im merely pointing out that just because there are iconic aspects of stories. You obviously dont feel that way, for whatever reason, and thats fine. What I have a problem with is you pronouncing that everyone else is wrong to disagree with you. You duck my question concerning a Lucy dye job and take it to the extreme when applying the superman "contraversy" over his colors. On a side note, I think most people, including myself, bitch about Superman's color change because we associate Superman with America and, of course, the american flag. Patriotic and hokey, but you cannot deny that "truth, justice, and the american way" has been a MAJOR part of Superman's iconic myth. Maybe it doesnt matter to you so much, because you dont take it as extreme as others do. However, if we were to completely revamp the image of Superman (bald, fat, and dressed in a black trench coat), he would no longer be the iconic image of superman. Likewise, if you were to remove the red paint, change him into a fire engine, put on a mouth in place of a mask, Prime would no longer be the iconic image that the producers say they are striving for. And I'll tell you something, you can be sure that if this film deviates the optimus prime character to the point that I cant associate him with the character I grew up with, I will most deffinitely NOT watch this film.
Whether anyone likes it or not, people like to see their characters as they remember them. For instance, if Optimus Prime was a filing cabinet or a helicopter that transformed into a robot, what would be the point of calling him Optimus Prime? Why is the name important if his physical makeup isn't. If the leader is a semi, call it Optimus Prime. If they change it to a rocket or a tank, call him Optimus Zoom or Optimus Bull or whatever spanks your monkey.
Oh, and i dont see how ZB's statement "jumped off the track," as you put it. You dont feel the change of Optimus Prime is as drastic as he stated, correct? Well, unless I'm mistaken, it sounds exactly the same. Optimus prime (a masked characer) Without a mask, superman (a non masked character) WITH a mask. Optimus Prime WITHOUT red, Superman WIHTOUT red and blue. Its the exact same argument? Do you have blinders on or something? Admit it, you are wrong--end of story.
Another point for moon.
...nor have I called anyone else wrong in what they would prefer Prime look like. What I'm saying IS wrong is the insistence that there is only one way to portray Prime visually. That's flat out incorrect and I've given ample evidence as to why. As for the Prime/Superman comparison: it has yet to be confirmed that Prime will have no red (of any shade) in his color scheme. Quint was looking at a rough design. It has been indicated that Prime will be seen both with and without a mask (not exclusively without, as you obviously fear) and there have been representations of Optimus Prime in the history of Transformers (the toys) that had removable facemasks and even that have had the red absent completely. To my knowledge, we've never seen Superman with a gray cape and mask. Hence, like your silly Lord of the Rings comparison (speaking of things being ducked), it's not apt or comparable. As for you high-handed insinuation that I somehow ducked your I love Lucy point, have you ever seen Lucielle Ball in color? Her hair wasn't always the same shade of red and, in fact, in some of her films was quite blonde. What if blonde Lucy had played Lucy in an I Love Lucy film? Would your brain have been incapable of accepting her as the character she created simply because of her hair color? You can end your story wherever you want, but it's a dumb story.
I just felt like saying it.
...when they don't agree with you but, seriously, any of you guys suggesting that about my position on this care to point to one assertion I've made that is inaccurate? I thought not. That said, I hope at least some of you will maintain enough of an open mind not to freak the fuck out if Prime isn't the right shade of whatever color you prefer and at least wait for a review of the film before you decide to dismiss it entirely. For what it's worth, I find the revelation that he's a Mack truck very reassuring and don't think that leaves a lot of room for the design team to deviate significantly from his basic look and feel. Details like eyeballs and whether or not he keeps his mask on for the whole film are pretty insignificant if they're going to stick largely to the version of the character I prefer (which happens to be the 80s toon version...I just also realize that's not the only legitimate version out there).
At the risk of engendering bad feelings, the fact that Lucy occasionally had blonde hair only proves my point. When anyone thinks of Lucy, what do they think of? When anyone thinks of Superman, what do they think of? When anyone thinks of Optimus Prime, what is the image? Just because you have had some variance in the past doesnt change the overall resonance. Quick, what do you think of when I mention a possible Captain America movie? I'm picturing an orange jumpsuit and a gun. How about you? Awwwww....well, thanks to the effects budget and coolness factor, i will still earn a huge profit despite your pedantic fanboy musings. Sounds like a solid argument in your view, correct?
--Prime doesn't "seem" to have any red. Prime's whole bloody torso is supposed to be red. If Quint saw blue and gray instead it sounds like they took the red out. That's much the same as taking the red out of Superman's cape. And the removal faceplate depends--is this going to be a situation in which the face is bare most of the movie, but the faceplate goes on for a couple of action sequences? Or will the faceplate be on for most of the movie and come off for a couple of more emotional scenes? Optimus Prime blue-and-grey and without the mask is as weird as Superman with a grey cape and a mask--and, for the record, Supes had a partial mask/headcovering thing when he was blue and electrified, if nothing else. But, hey, listen, if Prime DOES have red and DOES wear the mask for a good portion of the movie, I have no real problem. But combine those fears with the weirdness about the eyes and the less blocky look and it's very easy to picture a character that looks more like a Gundam than our Prime. I'm not saying we should be going off the walls, I'm just saying I think there is valid room for worry based on the description we got.
Batman's fairly easy. He wears black, grey, or blue (sometimes this distinction isn't even made in the pages of the same comic!), with a cape, fins on the gloves, an emblem on the chest, and a cowl with a pointy nose and ears. Hell, if you give a guy a cape and the pointy ears, you're most of the way there. Batman's color scheme is so simple that it's hard to F up.
Well, its not your factual statements, such as past toy products' popularity or cynicism towards hollywood, that I am disputing as much as it is your conclusion. You seem to be proposing that any character design at all is okay and that we should be grateful they are at least making a transformers movie. To me, that just seems like the stance of an appologist. And before we go any further and turn this thing super-extra heated, I just want to say that I do respect your opinion and that I'm not trying to be insulting. I appologize if I have, however, and want to point out that I'm not trying to be rude towards you.
Yeah, i pretty much feel exactly the way you do concerning this character description. I'm not about to hulk out any time soon until I see a genuine character image for myself. I will confess to misgivings, however, concerning Quint's descriptions, but I'm not even remotely close to climbing an office tower with a tuna fish sandwich, a six pack of mountain dew, and a high-powered rifle. I also think that Roland pretty much feels like the rest of us--he wants some middle ground, and he'll be happy. I'm pretty much the same way--so long as Prime retains his iconic aspects. By the way, I havent talked to you in a dog's age, ZB. How are you doing?
All this back and forth between us has made me want to put on the Transformers movie. How about you?
...registering with you is precedent. Maybe I'm just not as up on Captain America as you are (although I read his exploits pretty faithfully for twenty-some years), but I don't recall ever seeing him depicted in the source material (or, really, in any of the derivative material like cartoons and toys) wearing an orange jumpsuit and carrying a gun. So if a Cap fan (die hard or casual) were to cry Hollywood foul (often a perfectly legitimate call where Hollywood is concerned) I would say "You go, fanboy!" I would even get behind the cause because I kind of dig the Cap in his classic duds...with the one exception. The movie they actually did make had a pretty faithful rendition of the costume on a guy who could've probably passed for Steve Rogers in the pre-'roid days when being in good shape didn't mean being four feet across at the shoulders. And in that movie he looked stupid. Might've been the fake ears or the cheap quality of the material, but it was a comic-accurate portrayal of the character that just didn't quite do it for most folks (hence the switch from a planned theatrical blitz to a quick video release). Doesn't mean they shouldn't have tried, I guess. And you have to give them some credit for drawing on the source material, right? Same with Corman's Fantastic Four (which some fans of that franchise still like better than the more recent blockbuster). Constantine, on the other hand, seemed to take what were essential parts of the character (his Britishness and the British location of the majority of his stories being intrinsically connected to the magical element of his mythos) and ditch them. Yet, for some inexplicable reason, a fair number of folks dug on that film and hard (not me, I detested it, but that's all personal taste). Of course you can throw out any number of examples of deviation that actually worked (like my earlier Batman parallel) and by-the-bookness that just didn't translate well (seems to be the problem with the recent Silent Hill film). It all depends on how the film is received. And none of those examples really even get to the core of my point. If there have been so many wildly different yet legitimate and Hasbro/Takara-sanctioned versions of Optimus (seriously, there are just tons, even if you don't count all the Japanese "Convoy" figures), is it fair to say that the makers of this film absolutely have to adhere to the specific design aesthetics of the 1980s cartoon version based on that first toy release or they (and anyone who believes what their doing might be okay) are wrong? I don't think so. Even though I might not have liked a fire truck version of Optimus Prime (which, by the way, is not what we're getting here), I couldn't argue that it was wrong or wasn't Prime. I've seen the toy. I know it was Prime for a time (would that be prime time?). It's possible not to like or necessarily approve of something even if it's technically right (case in point, my arguement here which is highly unpopular with a lot of folks). And that doesn't make you wrong. Just of a different preference and perspective. You don't cross the line into wrong until you claim that your perspective is the only legitimate one without the evidence to back the statement. And really, we've all been trafficking in extremes when drawing analogies here. It does sound as if the film makers are on the right track. They didn't make him a fire truck or a jet or a gorilla. He's a Mack truck. He will have a battle mask (in at least part of the picture). Those are steps in the "right" direction for those of you hoping this will be the 80s redux. I don't think leaving Bay and Spielberg and Co. a bit of room for interpretation, especially in the visual aesthetics -- an area where the world has evolved some since the 80s, particularly in the arenas of vehicular and robotic design.
...I meant to close that last post. And I do want to watch the TF movie again, but I want someone to get around to releasing a special edition with some bells and whistles before I break down and buy it. And I'd love if Cullen got hte voice role for Optimus in the new movie, too. 80s Prime is my prime Prime as well, I guess I'm just more open to the idea of respectful reinterpretation is all. And for ZB, it's very possible Quint was looking at an incomplete model, image or sketch of the character. Red and blue live on different ends of most machines' color pallettes and red might just not have been layered in yet. I personally hope that's the case...or that Bay reads enough of the talkbacks to decide a bit of red might be in order. If not, though, I'm not ready to write off the film on that basis alone.
Yes, I understand where you are coming from. I would like to add that although there have been many precedents set with mass product entities like Superman, GI Joe, Transformers, etc, I do believe their are aspects of a character that largely remain the same due to their success and (I'm deffinitely overusing this word) iconic image. I think that following your argument (which would seem valid), it would be perfectly logical to film a Superman movie where he is wearing a lightning bolt costume rather than the one we are all familiar with. Like I said in an earlier post, although you may have variances among interpretation of a character, there is still a certain aspect/image of that character that HAS to be depicted, otherwise it ceases to be that character. Oh, and I just popped the movie in my player right now, and Galacticus is coming to get a planet as we speak. Tangent discussion--I really love the first half hour of the Transformers movie. Too bad they couldnt have used the exact same story, but with Optimus Prime being the lead character instead of "THE FALSE GOD."
Oh, and I actually do agree with you concerning a respectful reinterpretation. I'm all for changes made and such. I just seem to draw the line at his color and face. And I think I speak for everyone that if Cullen doesnt get the job, there will be many a fanboy contemplating Bay's death. I mean, its not like Cullen's voice has changed at all. Recently, a friend of mine played a recording for me of Cullen, who was at a convention two years ago, doing the Optimus Prime voice. Believe me when I say that his voice is NO different than it was twenty years ago.
If you want, I can just burn you a copy of the disc (honest, its no big deal). Heck, if you want to buy one, its only like five bucks at the local movie store. You know, I had a sudden thought--can you imagine all the new Transformers crap that will be coming out? Rereleases, new toys, etc. Man, its like 1986 all over again...
...they had the same taste in headgear. And I did bring up both Fantastic Four films, so it's all good. The death of Prime in that movie hit me suprisingly hard (if I just spoiled anything for anyone it's your own damn fault...if you're reading this talkback, you really should have seen this by now) for a guy who used his little brother as an excuse to see the movie (I was in High School when it came out). And although I really dug the character of Hot Rod (he felt like a latter-day Sunstreaker, who was always my favorite), I thought his transformation into Rodimus Prime was lame. They just slapped a streamlined cab on the top of a race car. If he'd morphed into something more like Prime (say a different, perhjaps sleeker kind of real-world truck), I think I would've warmed up to him. And I have no doubt Cullen's voice is right where it needs to be. The great thing about that voice was the sort of indeterminate age of it. Clearly it was seasoned, yet strong and commanding. Like if John Wayne had lost the "Aw, shucks" drawl he had in most of his early films, Cullen's Prime is the voice you'd have been left with. Even if he sounds a little more weathered, there'd be nothing at all wrong with that (Prime's how old, anyway? I'm thinking pretty to very but middle-aged by Cybertronian standards). I think that, with Cullen as the voice, even fans as hung up on the color/facemask issue as some would probably have a much easier time accepting the character as Prime. Now let's hope they don't borrow a page from comic continuity and have Spidey make a cameo.
I was almost twenty when the movie came out. Although I didnt have any children to blame it on, I still went to see it (I was stationed in Germany at the time). I would be a liar if I said it didnt hit me hard, either. I think the problem with that movie was that it was surprisingly good, despite a lot of drawbacks. If it were written bad, a lot of children wouldnt be so scarred by Prime's death (my younger brother has often complained about that point).
Where Megatron slaughters ever major G-1 character that the chilren were all emotionally attached to in less than 45 seconds. I cannot describe to you the shock and cries that went through the audience of 7 year-olds. I myself didnt know what to think; I was torn between morbid amusement and parental disdain. Pretty good soundtrack, too.
...you got the pow-werrrr!" Yeah, really, aside from that the soundtrack was remarkably good. And the voice acting (hard to believe Orson Welles went out after playing a hungry planet...fitting in a poetic sort of way). I think the movie was an indication that the franchise had kind of matured along with its fans. I was almost disappointed to see it go back to TV after that. Actually, if you've never seen them, the Beast Wars cartoons were not at all bad. Story and characterwise, I'd say they were a notch up from the standard 80s toon episodes (yet they referenced the 80s toon frequently, implying an extension of that continuity). I was never going to bother with Transformers again until my brother turned me on to that show. Since then I've given almost anything Transformers at least a look. Never can tell when the shit might get good.
Actually, I had seen a few Beast Wars cartoons. My brother recorded some really good ones for me and handed me the videotape. One episode in particular was about the characters going back in time or something to the arc (a nice touch). Still, the voice acting paled in comparison to the eighties cartoons. And you are right--Orson Welles' voice was unbelievable coming through the speakers. One thing I have noticed about the eighties transformers was the humor. Although intended for kids, adults could have a pretty good time watching the shows (a sense that I did not get from the new transformers). One thing I feel the move depicted perfectly was the fight between Prime and Megatron, to say nothing of the very interesting segment where Megatron is changed. As animated movies go, one could do a lot worse than Transformers if you ask me.
April 26, 2006, 5:38 p.m. CST
by Childe Roland
...from that crew. Many of them were also on the G.I. Joe cartoon, if I remember right, but their voices didn't have quite the same impact there (except when coming out of Cobra Commander/Starscream). I think it was the fact that, on these often crudely drawn robotic faces (or, in Prime's case, completely masked faces) the voice was really the sole delivery system for emotion from the characters. The Beast Wars weren't strong on humor (had pretty much the one character on each side for comic relief) but the characterizations were very consistent and multi-dimensional and the stories were, for the most part, well written. Even though I had no interest in the toys that went with the show, I could tell when an episode or plot device had been shoehorned in to sell a new toy. Can't really say that about the 80s toon (except maybe when they started coming up with all the different sub-groups that formed giant Voltron-esque robots). Anyway, this has been a fun trip down memory lane for the inner geek. I should get home before my boss wonders what I'm "working" on so late. Peace.
He was pink! Prime was John Wayne wrapped in the Red, White, and Blue where as Hot Rod was..well...pink with flames.
Long time no see. Not too bad. Glad to see we're all on more or less the same wavelength here. And, btw, I was one of those heavily traumatized children watching that movie when it came out. Scarred me for life, but I wouldn't have it any other way. ;)
Rodimus was cool. Hotrod's transformation was the second best scene in the movie, next only to Prime's death. Maybe because it also features the "You got the touch" song, I don't know, but I always dug him as a character. And as for the changing the characters look arguement. I think the problem is they seem to be making unnecessary changes. If they can keep them consistent with the old transformers why change it?
I don't care if the vehicles are changed, but the more I think about it the more I hate this thing about adding pupils and mouths where there were none before. There are so many characters with faces that don't change much or at all - Darth Vader, C3PO, R2D2, V, Michael Meyers, Jason, Boba Fett... I mentioned Gromit having no mouth before. What about that creepy penguin in The Wrong Trousers, Feathers McGraw? Even the original Mickey Mouse didn't have pupils, and he seemed to do okay. And somehow I don't think they're going to be showing a whole lot more emotion than they already did in the cartoon with no pupils and sometimes no mouths. I think the assumption that it's not possible to convey personality or emotion without these things is lazy and even insulting to the people working on the movie. As much as I hate Michael Bay, I'm sure he is capable of hiring talented animators.
Because you will in the summer of 2007, I guarantee it. If this film takes place in 2005, then why the H3LL isn't this happening in Portland OR, like the original series? I swear if you open a comic or even pay attention to the series they are all over Oregon and the west coast, but mostly the Pacific North West. Mt. St. Helens erupted again on March 8th 2005. Los Angeles HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRANSFORMERS!! If the people in charge of this film do anything it should be research. SERIOUS RESEARCH! Look at the designs for Binal Tech/Alternators toys, or the Dreamwave Comic designs, hell the Masterpiece Series. THIS is where you get your designs for the Film. This is where we get what works on film for these characters. These designs show how the mechanical works and maintains the look of the characters. I swear... this movie is going to suck and because of that, I'm going to cry. Thank you Michael Bay and Hollywood for RAPING my childhood.
...we've gone through about a hundred different valid reasons why they might want to change the design aesthetics of the vehicles and/or robots. The most obvious of these is the fact that the characters were designed in the early 80s and were based on many vehicles no longer in production or even frequently seen on the roads anymore. This isn't a period piece. You can argue that it should have been, and that's your right, but you sound like a dumbass suggesting the cars and robots should look exactly like they did in a 1980s cartoon when rendered digitally for a live action 2006-2007 film. The film makers wisely decided to update the vehicle modes and are planning to make the robot designs less boxy. Hasbro would've done that itself in the 80s if it had the technology and knew how popular the toy line was going to be (it would've raised the price point on the toys, though...as someone posted above, look at the Alternators to see what less boxy-yet-faithful renditions of most of the G1 characters can look like). These changes are unnecessary in your eyes (which may or may not have pupils), but I'm starting to wonder if you'd have the sense to change yourself after crapping your drawers. Let's talk about the other "unnecessary" changes you're worried about. The addition of pupils? If you can't understand why a film maker would want some sort of expressive feature on the faces of the film's primary characters, you won't ever get this. Same with the removable face mask on Optimus. These changes won't impact the core of the character at all. But you're actually making me hope they do something more radical, because as much as I'd love to see a faithfully updated G1-style Prime on the big screen, it would make me smile to know that somewhere, when this film opens, you'll be weeping disappointedly like a spoiled little girl. That knowledge might just be worth a truly shitty adaptation.
A removable face mask and pupils will make optimus kind of gay. The Transformer expressed a wide variety of emotions without ever needing pupils. The reason they are adding pupils is because Bay is a lousy director. Fuck even George Lucas was able to give 3PO a wide range of emotions, and 3PO had a STATIC face. And I hate to burst your bubble, if movie ends up looking like garbage, I just wont go see it. Pretty much like I did with the Star Wars prequels. Why pay to see crap?
...anyone who'd take the name of a fluffy cuddly bunny from an extremely sentimental Disney film (or a Bond villainess) is clearly in touch with his feminine side (as evidenced by the tossing about of the word "gay" in a derogatory context...clearly projective denial). If Prime comes out looking at all "wrong," you'll cry just a little bit. It's okay. We're all here for you.
I'd be careful about insulting Thumper, Roland. I knew a guy in the army whose nickname was thumper and he weighed about 260 lbs. I'm not saying that this guy is him, I'm just saying...well, you never know...
...and there wouldn't be anything wrong with a 260 lb guy being all sensitive and stuff. You have to admit, though, the evidence is kind of overwhelming. I mean, he 1.) calls stuff "gay" when he isn't sure if he's going to like it or not, 2.) dug on the Rodimus Prime's being all pink and flaming and shit, 3.) held up the gayest robot in the history of gay robots (C3PO) as an example of what he thinks the film makers should be striving for and 4.) seens to react emotionally to things he feels threatened by. I'm just sayin'...not that there's anything wrong with any of that. ;)
Seriously, the thumper I mentioned was FAR from being sensitive. He and I used to antagonize each other constantly. Seeing as how I was 6'2" and 240 lbs, it wasnt a big deal. He could deffinitely throw a punch, though ;)
But the only femine side I'll be touching is your girlfriend's ass. I hope you taught her the lyrics to the "You got the touch, you got the power" song. I want her to sing it to me while you're out masturbating to Bay's Ultra-Battle-Ready Optimus. Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no need to cry over a lousy Optimus, he's been done wrong so many times since the original movie, what's one more time? I don't reward Hollywood, for putting out shit.
April 27, 2006, 10:26 a.m. CST
by Horseflesh
Please god, let Frank Welker be the voice of Megatron and Soundwave, and then I won't have to cut myself.
...Thumper. If the wife finds out about her, I'm going to catch hell. And moondoggy, I know what you mean about punches from heavyweights. I had a good buddy in college who hovered around the 250 mark. Ambidextrous, to boot, so he could throw a wicked combination flurry. He was gay as a Maypole, by the way, and often roughed up his straight friends when we would ask him if he did his reach-arounds lefty or righty or why he wasn't bisexual, since that would've made more symmetrical sense with his ambidexterity. I don't think he was a Transfan (unless you count Friday nights at La Cage). I believe he was more of a G-Force/Battle of the Planets guy. Helluva good guy, though, and a great sense of humor on him.
Way to kill a flame war.
Here, we'll start again. Which side was I arguing? Pro-gay robots or anti-gay robots? I can't remember. Oh, well. You suxxors. How's that?
Maybe next time.
Rodimus was cool. He's just judged harshly because the series fell flat after the movie. Just like Galvatron was good in the movie, but in series that followed, they turned him into a brain-damaged loon. Which made him real annoying.
...Thumps. I think the CONCEPT of Rodimus was cool, but the execution kind of blew. Like I said, I liked the Hot Rod character. I just thought he should've changed more (physically, at least, in the film) when he took on the Matrix. And the toon should've shown him continuing to mature and "grow" into a real leader. As it was, he was almost like the Shazam of the Transformers...just a punk kid stuck awkwardly in a big, powerful body and forever in the shadow of Superman (heh...even the character colors bear out that analogy - God, I'm good!)because people viewed him as unnecissarily redundant (probably because no one really believed Optimus was gone for good and Ultra Magnus was always around to remind us of him). I completely agree with your take on Galvatron. He became more laughable than threatening in his crazy state. I've said it before: seeing the cartoon go back to TV made me lose interest in the property. I knew there was no way they'd be able to do the same level of stuff they did in the movie (not talking about the swearing so much as the mature themes and real consequences of warfare that were depicted so well). They should've just kept making movies. Too bad the direct-to-video market wasn't as viable then as it is now. I hope this new movie is half as well written as that original.
Capt. Picard to Capt. Kirk. Sorry, but one is a metrosexual, and the other is a man's man baby!
There was only a couple of episodes with female Transformers in G-1. And they were all like a convent or something. Since I am a female, it was kind of a drag they were all guys. At least GI Joe had plenty of female characters. So, Arcee was something I looked forward to.
This just started going around yesterday or today I guess. Hasn't been confirmed yet. the Autobot list sounds ok except for Bumblebee not being a VW or at least something resembling one. The Decepticon list is totally screwed though. I hope this list isn't accurate. At least on the Decepticon side anyway. With all this new information being released i'm starting to think this movie is going to be total crap. Oh and Roland I'd reply to your response to me but I don't have time to at the moment. Too busy with work and no time to play. And besides my main goal was just to piss you off a bit. I didn't like some of the comments you were making to the other talkbackers and about some other things in general which I felt included myself. Whether you realize it or not you were being bit of an ass. Oh and Superninja. Arcee wasn't in G2. She was still considered G1. Generation 2 was a entirely new toyline that had the Megatron as a Tank deal and other characters kinda changed into new vehicles. I don't think Arcee was even in it. So anyway, later. ------------------------------- "AUTOBOTS Optimus Prime (semi) Ratchet (ambulance, not an emergency vehicle or firetruck) Ironhide (pickup truck) Jazz (sports car) Bumblebee (Chevrolet Camaro, possibly a '70s/'80s model) DECEPTICONS Megatron (tank, presumably) Starscream (F-22) Vortex (helicopter) Soundwave (bastard version - a.k.a Kennywave) Scorponok (minion) Brawl (police car) Devestator (tank) Bonecrusher (Mine clearing vehicle)"
...on a perfectly valid point of view. You came right out and accused me of not knowing what I was talking about when I had clearly demonstrated I do. The only viewpoints I insulted (and rightfully so) were the ones insisting there could be no other valid interpretation of Prime than the G1 80s cartoon version. I've shown amply how that position is simply ludicrous and flat out wrong. You can have a preference, but your passion for your opinion doesn't make you an authority (and really isn't going to mean any more in this instance than it has in countless other beloved property-to-film translations). If having these things pointed out to you by me makes me the ass, I guess I'll own the title with pride. As I've indicated, I would prefer that the movie version be a respectful update of the 80s toon version (and it really sounds like that's where the movie's headed), but I'm not going to cry and whine about how there can only be one look for the character when the people who created him and legally own the rights to him have clearly said differently over the years. I haven't taken any personal shots at anyone (except Thumper). You're just upset because I've clearly and logically demonstrated why your opinion is not objective fact. If knowing that hurts your feelings, you might want to invest in some very boxy robotic armor (perhaps without pupils) or just toughen up.
April 28, 2006, 7:10 p.m. CST
by nonsensical
This is supposed to be an adaptation of the 80's characters into a hollywood film. Unfortunately it's going to be made into a flat summer blockbuster. From the information that is being given out to the fans it doesn't seem like this film is going to respect anything but Michael Bay's bottom line. Also, Childe Roland, you have taken a personal shot at someone else... me. "But you're actually making me hope they do something more radical, because as much as I'd love to see a faithfully updated G1-style Prime on the big screen, it would make me smile to know that somewhere, when this film opens, you'll be weeping disappointedly like a spoiled little girl. That knowledge might just be worth a truly shitty adaptation." Yeah, this was great, but you lack the understanding of my issue. I'm not going to be weeping like a spoiled little girl because Hollywood made the Transformers look realistic. I welcome the addition of optics with an iris, and the articulation of mechanical parts. No, I'll be shedding tears for the complete lack of respect of the source material. The issue of Optimus Prime's face mask is one that shouldn't matter since if this is an adaptation of the 80's character he never had a face mask. When he was rebuilt from Orion Pax he was made into the Optimus Prime we all know. The face mask thing started in Beast Wars and that wasn't Optimus Prime. Yes, this isn't a period piece and maybe where you live you don't see all the cars that the Transformers were in the 80's but here in Portland we see all of them as well as all the new designs from the Binal Tech/Alternators line. As for updating Prime. I'm sorry, but I don't see very many new semi trucks and if the Transformers were around and scanned a vehicle they wouldn't scan the newest model. They would scan whatever was there. You know what... I would be fine if they stuck with the Binal Tech designs, but if they're going to throw in characters like Scorponok and screw up characters like Devestator, then maybe we would be better off with a period piece. Better yet. I'd love to see them go with Megatron as a Tank, Starscream, Skywarp, and Thundercracker as Jets and Soundwave as some military survielance vehicle. Even having him as a helicopter would be fine. But if you're doing Bumblebee... pay the money to have him be a Beetle... or maybe look into making him a Mini like they were planning on the Binal Tech line. In fact... just make this a Binal Tech movie. Then fans of the G1 will be happy, so long as you do Prime right.
First off, I was just talking a bunch of BS in that first post to piss you off. I already said that was my original intention. So I should apparently assume "mission accomplished".And I frankly don't care if you think that you were or not, but you were being a freaking ASS in some of your posts to other people on here. If you say you were defending yourself then fine. Even if that's the case there's no need to make all of these lil left handed comments insulting them and everyone else who prefers the G1 versions of the bots or just doesn't agree with what you have to say. And i'm not the only one who has mentioned this. I think the word "Snide" was brought up by someone to describe your comments. As well as what Nonsensical just posted above me. You can't seem to be able to argue about something without throwing some personal insults in there as well.Just goes to show what kind of personality you have. Having the first name Childe couldn't be more fitting. But to put that behind us and move on to the arguement about your Prime theory. You keep saying that there have been all of these different versions of Prime over the years. And your right there have been. But NOT of G1 Prime. The original Prime has pretty much looked the same in whatever he's been in except for a few modifications here and there. And that's what this movie is supposed to be based on. The original G1 line. And that's why people are pissed about them Changing how he looks now. All of the Primes your refering to were from completely different Toy lines that were introduced and are still trying to cash in on the popularity of the originals. Hasbro/Takara just want to recycle the names and images of the original well known G1 caharacters in order to sell these new lines. People still prefer the originals over all this new TF stuff and they know that. Why do you think they keep introducing toys with the same names of the original characters? And in some cases they even resemble the original toys. And yes I do realize that the bottom line for Hasbro/Takara is to make a buck. But why don't they change the names and quit basing most of the characters on the originals? Instead of Optimus Prime call him General Maximus. And instead of a red Semi make him a blue car. The reason they don't do this is because the fans would be pissed and I doubt they'd make no where near as much money if they did. So even in their own way Hasbro/Takara realize the importance that the original characters have with the fans. If the movie people want to update the G1 prime then that's fine. I can deal with the emoting eyeball thing. But you don't radically change what the people like about him in the first place and say it's based on the G1 line. That's just stupid. For a good example of what a new updated G1 prime is go to www.seibertron.com and look at the article they have about the new updated Classic line of toys that Hasbro is coming out with in Sept. This line is supposed to be the updated/modernized versions of the original characters. Now THAT is the prime that should be in the movie. Not this Blue maskless character that Bay is throwing around. I'd even be happy if that was going to be the Megatron in the movie rather than the tank version. At least he'd still be in Gun form. And this new toy line I just mentioned proves my point again.If the original versions weren't so important to the fans why would Hasbro keep reintroducing them? Care to reply to that?
...but I was traveling without Internet for a couple of days. So, to sum up, you threw "a bunch of shit" into your first post just to piss me off and I'm the one who is an ass? Your perception of reality is truly dizzying and unique. But it's yours and you're entitled to it. Funnny how the people I actually did take shots at recognized it was all in good fun and eventually came around to talking about these ideas like grown ups. As for slamming folks for liking G1 Prime, I never did that. In fact, if you'd bothered to actually read my posts, you'd see that I prefer G1 Prime myself. But I can't with any degree of respect for all that the franchise has been or any understanding of what is reality say that G1 Prime is the only look for the character of Optimus Prime. This is well covered ground and you really just haven't been paying attention. To focus more on what you have been paying attention to, however, you admit that the "re-releases" of Prime have incorporated minor updates and tweaks. Well, these CHANGES -- yes, that's what they are -- constitute a departure from the strict design aesthetics of G1 Prime, the original that you keep insisting is somehow immutable. So the subsequent editions of Optimus Prime to come out have not been re-releases int he strictest sense of the word. They've been updates, just like this movie is going to give us. And the most faithful to the cartoon/G1 version of Optimus to come out in the last ten or so years? That would be 20th Anniversary or Masterpiece Prime. Looks prettymuch just like he did in the cartoon but with cleaner, more realistic lines. And his facemask comes off. Oh...and Megatron hasn't been a gun in the U.S. since G1. Want to bet money he's not a gun in the movie, either? As for nonsensical, your knowledge of the toon history is impressive. But the toon history is a small slice of Transformers history. See my Masterpiece Prime comment above for an example of a G1-looking Prime with a removable facemask. You guys so badly want your opinions to be validated and somehow elevated to the status of authority, but you're looking at this way too emotionally to be objective, logical or accurate in your assertions. You've hamstrung yourselves in the argument and, quite frankly, it's just no fun helping you trip yourselves anymore. See you at the opening.