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Career Opportunities at Melges
Melges Performance Sailboats is the world leader in performance scows and sportboats. For more than 60 years, Melges has continually lead the way in progressive sailboat design, engineering and manufacturing. Melges is an international company with an outstanding reputation for building the best boats, attracting the world's top sailors, excellence in customer service and product support, and delivering cutting-edge sails from North Sails Zenda.
With an ever-expanding and growing customer base, Melges is always interested in hearing from individuals who are energetic, highly-motivated, passionate and enthusiastic about the sport of sailing. Melges offers a dynamic working environment with unique employment and career opportunities. With the right people and ideas, Melges will continue to lead the market in one design yachting.
The future is bright at Melges. A variety of job positions are currently available. Explore the possibilities of joining the Melges team by sending your resume to:Melges Performance Sailboats
P.O. Box 1
Zenda, Wisconsin 53195
Fax: +1 (262) 275-8012
Website: www.melges.com


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When Bob George, a lifetime Dodge City resident, first wrote a letter to Charles Manson, he had no idea it would become a decades long fascination spreading to other mass murderers and serial killers.
When Bob George, a lifetime Dodge City resident, first wrote a letter to Charles Manson, he had no idea it would become a decades long fascination spreading to other mass murderers and serial killers.
"I was teaching psychology at the high school," George remembers, "and we were about to start a chapter on cults. I had just happened to read in the paper that day that Manson was denied parole once again. I thought 'what a great visual aid for this topic- a letter from Manson himself'."
So, George wrote Manson a letter in 1997. He didn't respond.
But George didn't give up. He decided to write one more letter and hoped for a response.
Again Manson didn't respond. But someone else did. At the time Manson was receiving over 60 letters a day in prison, so he had his own personal 'secretary', a man named Roger Dale Smith, a fellow prisoner. Smith just happened to be a born again Christian, and George had included a Fellowship of Christian Athletes card with his letter. Smith saw the card and wrote back to George.
George and Smith began corresponding for several years. The relationship ended only when Smith passed away in 2004.
Before he died however Smith convinced Manson to write to George as well, and George finally received his first letter from Manson. According to Wikipedia, Charles Manson is an American criminal and musician who led what became known as the Manson Family, a quasi-commune that arose in California in the late 1960s. He manipulated members into committing brutal murders on his behalf. The letter, scrawled on yellow and pink paper and written in crayon, made no sense. Since then, George has continued to periodically receive more letters and drawings from Manson.
George was most fascinated with serial killers, out of all the topics he covered in psychology, this was the most interesting for him.
"I wanted to understand how their minds work," George said. "How they can do horrific things to other human begins, and get pleasure from it."
When Dennis Rader, BTK, was captured in 2005, George took notice.
George knew that Rader was being held in Sedgewick County Detention Center and began writing him immediately. He received about 10 letters as his trial approached. Before the trial, George asked if he was on the visitors list to see Rader. He wasn't, but was allowed to visit anyway because he does jail ministry.
"I was so nervous when I was about to talk to him," George said. "When Rader walked in he high-fived the glass between us, and within 30 seconds I was completely at ease."
George went on to say that this is one of the talents of a serial killer, they can become whoever you want them to be. This is often how they get people to trust them before they attack.
Over the years George has become pen pals with several other serial killers including Son of Sam, Rock n Rolling Stewart, BTK, Charles Manson, Mikhail Markhasev and countless others. All the letters are carefully organized and preserved in his house.
Learning from their actions
George, although now retired from teaching, still lectures at the high school twice a year, and speaks at other meetings and events when asked.
"I want to teach others, especially women, that these people are out there. Everywhere," George said. "I want them to know so they can better protect themselves, and prevent themselves from becoming the next victim."
George brings several of his letters and artwork as visual aids to his lectures. And tells horror stories of what these people have done.
"I always tell people you can't trust anyone," George added. "BTK had a wife and family, was the leader of a Boy Scout troop, and active in the church. And look what he did in his spare time. Ted Bundy pretended to be handicapped to capture victims. You can't trust anyone."
To schedule a presentation with George call (620) 225-1612.
Looking inside Evil Minds
A few weeks ago George discovered a museum known as the Evil Minds Museum located at the FBI training Academy in Quantico, Va. The museum is not open to the public, only to FBI agents and other experts, including handwriting analysts, artwork experts, and serial killer researchers who may be able to provide insight into what makes a serial killer.
George has decided to donate his letters and other artifacts to the museum to try and help the researchers.
"I hope that my letters can help the experts find something, some link that connects the killers, so that in the future we can prevent things like this from happening," said George.
So, after over a decade of corresponding with several killers what has George learned?
"I've learned that the more I study these letters and try and find patterns and similarities, the less I know," said George. "I don't think there's one common link between people like this. I think you can have 100 people, all with personalities like Dennis Rader, but for one person one thing slightly different happens at some point in his life and his brain changes. What that one thing is, I have no idea. It's probably different for each person."
Follow Julia on twitter, @julia_dcglobe

subset: commoncrawl


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Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 8th Dec 2010 12:16 UTC
It looks like several companies are learning what happens when you mess with the internet - and they're learning it the hard way. Several major companies have been hit by the collective powers of Anonymous after 4chan launched several distributed denial-of-service attacks. What many have been predicting for a long time now has finally happened: an actual war between the powers that be on one side, and the internet on the other. Update: PayPal has admitted their WikiLeaks snub came after pressure from the US government, and Datacell, which takes care of payments to Wikileaks, is threatening to sue MasterCard over Wikileaks' account suspension. Update II: Visa.com is down due to the attack. Update III: PayPal has caved under the pressure, and will release the funds in the WikiLeaks account.
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RE: Postfinance is not a bank
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Today, as I sit and tidy up the Plague curriculum for the upcoming ExxonMobil Teacher Tuesday I can hear the children in the classroom next to me coughing….. just a bit. I begin to think, maybe I need to make that appointment to get the flu shot. I mean, it's the least I can do to protect myself and the others that come into contact with me, right? Hmm…, I wonder.
In the year one thousand three hundred and forty eight when the Black Death set her dark sights upon the unsuspecting West, I wonder what the good people of Europe were thinking? It sure wasn't "Pass the hand sanitizer and warm me up a cup of Theraflu."
The plague boasted the following symptoms: aching limbs, vomiting of blood, and lymph nodes that swelled to the size of chicken eggs before bursting. I would have been first in line for my plague vaccination, had there been one available at the time.
|photo credit: Kessiye
As a plague victim in the Middle Ages, you would count yourself lucky if your family didn't abandon you in the street to die alone. If you were really lucky (so to speak) a doctor might pay you a visit. If you were luckier still, maybe he wouldn't. Common treatments for the plague included, but were not limited to: bleeding by leech or blade (sometimes until there was no blood left), purging by laxative (better to die of dehydration, right?), and various herbal treatments.
In the stead of drugstores, the Medieval town might have had a local apothecary. Check out some of the herbs that were used, mostly in vain, to treat the plague:
Thyme – a natural disinfectant used in the "nosegays" carried by doctors in an attempt to ward off the plague.
Rosemary – burned like incense, it was thought to ward off sickness of all types. It was hung around the neck to protect from the plague. It was also thought a twig of rosemary could ward off the evil eye.
|photo credit: tanakawho
Sage – among the most important medicinal herbs of Medieval Europe. No covenant garden would be without a substantial patch of sage growing to treat the ailing masses.
Angelica – according to legend, the Archangel Gabriel revealed the powers of this Nordic herb to the Benedictine monks. During the Middle Ages it was commonly cultivated in monasteries and used to treat symptoms of the plague.
Lavender – thieves who made a living stealing from the dead and infirm used lavender as an ingredient in their "Four Thieves Vinegar," a concoction they used to protect and cleanse themselves after a hard night's work.
During the plague in the seventeenth century, you might have even scored a visit from this guy (pictured below).
|17th century plague doctor
And if that wasn't enough to scare you to death, wait three days and the plague might get you anyway. As the poet Boccaccio said, "one could eat lunch with friends and have dinner with ancestors in paradise."


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A Jan. 20 incident at the Cranberry Township Giant Eagle grocery story that was reported as a robbery was in actuality an employee-coordinated theft, police officials announced this afternoon.
"It really was not a robbery," said Cranberry Township police Sgt. Chuck Mascellino. "It was determined that it was a theft involving a store employee."
Mascellino said police were called to the Giant Eagle on Route 19 about 2:45 p.m. on Jan. 20 in response to an alleged robbery. An employee in the store's hot food area who was working at the cash register told authorities that a male suspect demanded cash and had a firearm.
According to Mascellino, the cashier provided police with a description of the suspect and the vehicle used to flee the scene.
Police officials reviewed store-provided surveillance video of the incident and noticed that the suspect had been lingering in the store before as well as after the incident occurred.
After a photograph of the suspect was released, police received numerous tips and potential names of the man.
Mascellino said that police re-interviewed the cashier who reported the incident as well as several suspects and it was determined that the three suspects had reportedly devised a plan to steal money from the register and then report it as a robbery.
"Everybody's been cooperative," Mascellino said.
"We did follow up and we did find out that the cashier was involved."
Mascellino added that the cashier reportedly admitted his role in the incident to police investigators.
Charges of suspicion of theft, conspiracy, receiving stolen property and false reports to law enforcement officials will be filed against the three unnamed suspects, Mascellino said.


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Thank you for signing up to receive email from Roundabout Theatre Company. We look forward to seeing you at the theatre!
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Children under the age of 4 are not permitted in the theatre.
Call Audience Services at 212.719.1300.
By selecting the Best Availability filter on the Calendar page, the Calendar will display only performances with the best available Orchestra seats, like this one.
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Stephen Sondheim Theatre | American Airlines Theatre | Studio 54 | Harold & Miriam Steinberg Center for Theatre/Laura Pels Theatre/Black Box Theatre
© 1996–2018 Roundabout Theatre Company®


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To better serve the community's pet owners, Butte Humane Society (BHS) is now offering a rehoming service to take adoptable cats from the public into their adoption program.
BUTTE HUMANE SOCIETY NOW OFFERING CAT REHOMING SERVICESSurrender of Owned Cats Available By Appointment To better serve the community's pet owners, Butte Humane Society (BHS) is now offering a rehoming service to take adoptable cats from the public into their adoption program. Surrendered cats are accepted by appointment only, to ensure that space and resources are available. BHS strives to accept all adoptable cats while maintaining a high standard of care.
To surrender your cat to BHS, an application process, appointment, and $25 rehoming fee is required. The rehoming application is available online, along with alternative options to surrendering your cat. The application and more information about BHS rehoming services can be found at www.buttehumane.org/page/rehoming-services.php. Though many people are able to rehome their pets through social networking and classified sites like Craigslist, BHS can provide an alternate way to safely rehome your pet in times of need. All animals accepted into our adoption program are kept as long as it takes to find the right home, and BHS will always welcome back an animal adopted from them. BHS previously stopped accepting public surrenders in February 2011 when the City of Chico Animal Services assumed this responsibility and began operating the City shelter where surrendered pets are taken in.The City of Chico Animal Services recently revised their policy to discontinue taking healthy adult owned or stray cats. This increased community demand for rehoming services for adoptable owned cats, leading BHS to develop the new cat rehoming program.


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SAULT STE. MARIE, Ont. — The Post 3 EUP Travelers continued their solid start in the Great Lakes Baseball League Tuesday night.
Fueled by a five-run rally in the top of the sixth inning, the Travelers clipped the Sox Black Sox 7-3 in a GLBL game at Sinclair Yards.
The Travelers trailed 2-1 before scoring five runs in the sixth, highlighted by a bases-clearing double from Nathan Lajoie.
Devon Dear had a double and RBI, while Lou Krupa and Tyler Kirkland had RBI singles. Frank Bailey also had a single for the EUP.
The Travelers used five pitchers. Bailey started on the mound and allowed two runs on three hits, while striking out two and walking two over two innings. Jake Harrison held the Sox hitless and scoreless over two innings, while striking out five. Travis Myers gave up one run on one hi over 1 1-3 innings, while Brady VanSloten did not allow any hits over 2-3 of an inning. Kirkland pitched the final inning and did not allow any hits or runs.
Myers and LaJoie were called up from the Whiskey River EUP Junior Travelers team. Myers picked up the mound win, while Lajoie led the team with three RBIs.
Jordan Pine and Eric Thornton hit doubles for the Sox (6-21), who had four hits. Jamis McMaster started on the mound for the Sox and gave up one run over three innings. Scott Morphet allowed three runs on three hits over 2 1-3 innings and absorbed the loss. Cody Yardanoff pitched the 1 2-3 inning and was tagged with three runs on one hit.
The Travelers (3-1 GLBL, 5-8 overall) visit Petoskey Thursday.


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Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - Street Hunting Honza - GONZO
Street Hunting Honza - GONZO
Mirek Ceslar, camera in hand, interviewing a series of different guys. He asks them about their attitude towards doing erotic photography for money. Each guy answers, with some saying no and others saying it would be ok if the money is right. After a while he comes upon Honza Solar who agrees to do a shoot, though he does say he doesn't want to do everything. We next see Honza in the studio, sitting at the end of the bed being interviewed again. Mirek asks him to remove his shirt, but Honza declines until he is offered more money. So the shirt comes off, but when Mirek tries to touch him Honza pushes his hand away, complaining. Again he is offered more money, but is still not sure he will allow it and threatens to leave. However, he is eventually persuaded and lays down on the bed, with Mirek kneeling over him. Honza opens his jeans and Mirek instructs him to remove them. Then he lays back down and Mirek's hand begins to run over Honza's body as he films and chats to him. He lifts the band of Honza's underwear so the camera can get a glimpse of what is underneath. Honza is comfortable with this so Mirek tells him to remove the underwear. This he does, showing a very nice set of equipment to the camera, with a very full, dark bush. He then has Honza kneel on the bed so he can film him, in close-up before having him turn around to get a back view. Honza seems to be quite relaxed now and he is asked to hold the camera while Mirek removes his own shirt. Mirek takes the camera back and feels things are going well enough to have Honza start to rub Mirek's body, and remove his jeans and socks. Then Mirek tells Honza to lay back down and he kneels and takes Honza's cock in his hand. Honza then wanks himself as Mirek films him and runs his hand over Honza's legs. Soon Honza's cock is nice and hard. Mirek takes over the wanking and asks Honza to sit up and help him off with his underwear. Mirek then wanks himself and is soon hard, with Honza on his knees watching. Mirek then takes Honza's hand and place it on his cock and immediately knows he can get him to go further. He tells him to suck the cock and Honza does exactly that, his mouth closing over the cock head and sucking. Mirek lays down and Honza kneels over him to suck the cock some more. Then they both kneel and wank each others cocks. Honza has rapidly become very compliant and Mirek decides he can go further. He asks if he can have sex with him and Honza agrees. What a quick turn around in attitude he has had. Mirek wastes no time in slipping his cock into Honza's ass, doggy style, as he holds the camera to film it. He fucks nice and deep and Honza takes it very well. They move to missionary position and fuck some more. Honza seems to be enjoying it as he wanks his cock, getting it very stiff while Mirek fucks him. It is not long before Honza starts to moan as his cum builds up and shoots out of his cock, all over his chest, while Mirek's dick is buried deep in his ass. Mirek is ready to blow too and moves to the side and shoots that load all over Honza, with some landing on his face, and eyelids. He films a close up of his cum and then leave Honza alone on the bed. What a great Gonzo scene, with Honza really deflowered in the process.
... more about Street Hunting Honza - GONZO further in this newsletter
Our Coming Soon Set Preview
Two of the cutest guys imaginable come together for a duo. Honza Forst and Danek Rovny are both great looking guys. Danek is asleep on the sofa, naked and barely covered by the duvet. Honza creeps into the room and tries to remove the duvet, but as he does so Danek stirs and almost awakes. Honza tries again and still doesn't succeed as Honza moves again. Finall Honza is able to pull the duvet down and off Danke, revealing his full nakedness. Honza then creeps around to the back of the sofa and starts to caress the sleeping Honza, and finally taking hold of his cock and beginning to wank it. Honza doesn't wake up as he is played with so Honza feels bolder and rubs Honza's foot against his jeans, and then pulls his own cock out and rubs it against Honza's foot. Honza then moves Danek's leg and goes down and sucks on his hard cock. The feeling of mouth on his cock is enough to wake Danek, who reaches down to caress Honza, encouraging him to suck more. Honza then stands and removes his jeans, as Danek sits up, his throbbing cock sticking right up. Honza's dick is rock hard too as he gets naked. He steps astride Danek, presenting that big dick right in front of his face. Danek responds by licking at Honza's balls and then sucking the cock into his mouth. He sucks and Honza's cock and licks his balls, all the time wanking his own erect dick. Honza loves the feeling as his cock is in Danek's mouth and starts to fuck his face. he then moves down to Honza's ass, which is presented for his delectation. He spits on the hole and then licks and fingers it in turns. His finger goes deep into Honza's ass and we just know that something else will soon be in there. Sure enough, Honza's big fat cock is soon slipped into that eager ass, with Danek moaning as he feels his hole stretched. Honza fucks him nice and deep, with long thrusts before changing position so that Danek can sit on the dick and ride it. His own cock is rock hard as he rides Honza's throbbing member. Honza then starts to fuck the ass, real fast with Danek maintaining a huge stiffy as he is fucked. He moans as his ass is deep-dicked and the guys move again, with Danek on his back, legs in the air so that Honza can fuck him even harder. Honza wants to cum and lays down with Danek's head positioned to catch the cum. Honza blows is load which shoots over Danek's mouth, who sucks the cock into his mouth to drain it. The guys then kiss and Honza is keen to reciprocate and duly takes Danek's cum over his lips and sucks the sticky dick into his mouth too. Danek pulls Honza to his feet and kisses him tasting his own cum from Honza's mouth. What a great scene with two very good guys doing what comes naturally.
Latest Updates Trailer
Update from Bill: Early Monday morning it was back to the hospital to have the stitches removed. This morning, I found I could sit at the main computer without elevating the foot for quite a long time, maybe 45 minutes. This afternoon, not so good. But feeling much better, I can even hobble inches without the crutches. Inches that is.
Here's the bad part, the protruding wires, five of them, will have to remain in for four more weeks. The doctor warned me three separate times: "Do not get the wires wet. If the wires get wet an infection can travel through the wires into the foot." Talk about making someone paranoid. I'm not due to go back to the hospital for about a month. I'll have to find someone to change the bandages once a week until then. Shower? Forget about it. It will be sponge baths between now and removal of the wires. The last thing I want to take a chance on is an infection.
No shower, no hair cut or shave. That means if I do the video, I'll have to wear one of the studios black masks. I don't want to look like a yeti.
So far, so good. I'm feeling stronger every day.
Hi Everybody, again, this is Geoff filling in for Bill, until he is up to doing the main part of the newsletter himself. Bill has provided an update on his recovery, so I will get straight on with things.
Our shoots today are very good indeed. We start with Street Hunting Honza, which is Honza Solar in a Gonzo shoot with Mirek Ceslar. Followed by Roman Duzda's Massage, Mara Kratky's Erotic Video, Roman Ditrich's Session Stills and Tomas Razina's Erotic Video. Lot's of very handsome guys for everyone to savour.
The castings today are: Adam Bostik, Honza Solar, Jan Koreny and Michal Kalvas. It was a difficult choice today, especially as we also see Honza in his Gonzo shoot, but my pick of the day is Adam Bostik, he looks great.
MESSAGE ABOUT LINKS TO THE OLD WH WEBSITE - WILLIAMHIGGINS.com ARCHIVES:
Please be aware that the link www.williamhiggins.com takes you to this brand new website now. If you bookmarked our old website in the past and you want to keep the bookmark as a shortest way to access the old WH website you need to change the link in the bookmark to:
You do not need to remember this link, you can conveniently get to the old WH Website - WilliamHiggins.com Archives anytime you need through the "WH 2001-2010" in the top menu of the new WilliamHiggins.com website.
Today's Weather in Prague
We have launched our all new Kink only site with no solos. It's not for the feint hearted. Do take a look (if you dare):
At present, Members of CzechGuysNextDoor will be able to access the new site with their user information. If you have problems, write firstname.lastname@example.com
Latest Sets At Our NEW STR8HELL.com Website
Open Set "Marian and Tomas - DUTY BOUND"
Open Set "Anton Zemba - SPANKING"
Members of CzechGuysnextDoor.com - to log in the member's section of the new STR8HELL website use your present username and password, if you forgot your password or encounter a log in problem please feel free to contact us at: email@example.com
Non-members - you are welcome to browse our complete content - each regular set contains free video preview and free photos, if you decide not to become a member of our website you can also buy sets separately (we huge, well organized and easy to search library of models - there is always few models you may like) you can pay only for what you really want see ;-). You are always welcome to come back.
All members of www.CzechGuysNextDoor.com get a free access to STR8HELL.com till the end of November 2011!
Please use your present CzechGuysNextDoor username and password to log into the members area.
We have terminated updates to CzechGuysNextDoor.com website. CzechGuysNextDoor.com website will stay online, but now only as an archive of all CzechGuysNextdoor.com sets. Anyone who wants to access CzechGuysNextDoor.com Archives needs to have a STR8HELL.com membership. STR8HELL.com will continue with most of the czechguysnextdoor.com projects. Anyone who joins STR8HELL.com will gain access to two websites STR8HELL.com and CzechGuyNextDoor.com Archives which contain 2500+ sets. STR8HELL.com has exactly same features and controls as NEW WilliamHiggins.com website.
Direct access to CzechGuysNextDoor.com website is now through the link: archive.czechguysnextdoor.com or through "Archive Sets 2004-2011" links on the new STR8HELL website.
Thank you for your loyalty to CzechGuysNextDoor.com website,
William Higgins
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Starting today you can download our videos in Full HD quality 1920x1080px!
Please remember that most of the videos available on BurnDVD are easily able to be downloaded with a single link, but some of the very large files, such as the newsletter DVDs have to be split into three separate links, as detailed below.
The videos with very large file sizes are now split into more than one part, using a program called HJSplit. If you wish to buy one of these larger videos to Burn to DVD, you will receive a link for file and then it is a simple process to join the downloaded files together to make the .iso file for Burning to DVD.
You can see all the available videos at www.burndvd.tv
Before downloading any videos to burn to DVD I advise you to read the BURNDVD Manual, which explains how you can burn the file to DVD. The file is an ISO file which contains all the required DVD files. The process for burning to DVD is fully explained.
The BurnDVD manual is easy to follow, with a step by step guide. Burning a DVD is easy to do, though it is helpful if you have previously burned DVDs or CDs.
The manual can be viewed here: BURNDVD Manual
Anyone who has any problems understanding the manual, or burning their download to DVD, or indeed any questions about this service please email email@example.com . Geoff will be happy to assist you.
You can view all the available downloads at www.burndvd.tv, by clicking the on the categories. A direct link to the latest files available will be published in each newsletter.
Our Latest Sets at www.BurnDVD.tv
Today we have Street Hunting Honza Solar with Mirek Ceslar and CFNM Lecherous Nurses part 3 and Roman Duzda's Massage and Rudy Bodlak's Spanking:
The direct link to "Street Hunting Honza"
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This is my last post.
<snip - invalid> Since he created our brains he would know how to communicate with us whether it be through electrical impulses, chemical input or some other way we have never thought of.
The bible is a real world record and was written by real world people. Once God reveals himself to you, you begin to see that God is an all powerful loving God who cares deeply about his creation.
Since the bible is a real world record written by real world people it serves as a credible source of evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. <snip - due to lies and make-believe>
Just because we know that people don't rise from the dead after 3 days is no proof that one didn't especially in the light of the only contemporary record of the time that said he did. Besides, we are not talking about "people" rising from the dead after 3 days. We are talking about one man who rose from the dead after 3 day and 3 nights for the purpose of conquering death for all people.
<snip>There are only two basic ways of life. The giving of yourself to others for their good with no thought of reward (God's way).
Or the getting for yourself without regard for others (Satan's way).
<snip>Before that happens, God will intervene to save us.
There are no more options to try, we are at the end of our rope. God can now make thing right and no one will doubt that God exists.
This is my last post. I want to thank all of you for your replies. It has been an experience and I have learned a lot.
I have not read every post in this thread and the topic has changed so please forgive me. I also don't have a perfect understanding of the Bible nor history so please forgive me again. I would, however, like to chime in with my understanding of these things in light of the Bible. I will try to be brief.To the best of my knowledge the Bible account does not claim that Adam and Eve were perfect. It says creation was "very good". But either way you look at things the perfection was only relative as the Bible also says "only God is good". Adam and Eve were perfectly suited for the life that God had made for them which was to live in a paradise, to take care of it, and to multiply.
And to touch on the subject of human suffering I will give my understanding. A major theme in the Bible is the question "Can man survive without God?" This question was first raised in Genesis and indeed many still prefer a world without God.
If God constantly intervened then that question could never be settled and would exist for all eternity, in heaven and earth.
It has been admitted in this thread that God has not intervened.
So the question is what has been the result? I surely don't need to enumerate all the human failings in history. But as bad as things have been/are the question has not yet fully been answered as many people still hold out they can do fine without God, although history does not support this claim.
From my understanding, God will not intervene until the point that "no flesh would survive". At this point there will be not even a sliver of doubt that "man has dominated man to his own injury."
Also I would like to say about Sodom and Gomorrah and other similar places that their destruction was not God trying to teach them a lesson but rather it was God's judgment that they were worthy of nothing but death just like the flood of Noah's day. An even larger destruction is prophesied for the future for the "wicked".
Well, jst, since we've been doing fine so far, your god has failed to support this claim of yours. There is no evidence for yoru god's mere existence, much less that it does anything at all.
But god has intervened
How so? God is not supporting his claim. He's allowing humans to support theirs.
They're the ones claiming they best rule the earth. Maybe you measure success differently than I but I don't think humans are doing a very good job.
I tend to agree with the Bible's view that "man has dominated man to his own injury. All this suffering that you blame on God is ridiculous. Man is running the show, not God. If babies die and other sad things happen it because humans cannot fix it. It's their failure! Remember humans don't need God. This is your claim.
Okay let me clarify. God has only intervened to the extent required to make sure his purposes are fulfilled in the end. He has not interfered with man's attempt to take care of their selves. And yes, as sometimes recorded in the Bible, this has been judicial destruction at times.
Oh and by the way. The Bible never says they at an apple. You must know nothing about what you're talking about. Just kidding, not about the first statement, but this is the attitude I get around here. I think it's starting to rub off.
If the creation account is indeed a chiasmus, does that in any way add to its validity?
I don't mind that so many people feel that it must be taken literally but it seems to me that that approach misses so much of the richness of the text.
Quote from: ParkingPlaces on May 01, 2012, 10:38:21 PMIf the creation account is indeed a chiasmus, does that in any way add to its validity? Depends on what you mean by validity! I am not very sympathetic to those who want to use Genesis as a science text book. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the creation story is told in figurative language but affirms a primeval event at the beginning of human history. That strikes me as the right approach. What does the story say about the human condition?
The RCC is not blazing any trails here. St Jerome says somewhere that Genesis was written "after the manner of a poet". His contemporary, St. Augustine, wrote a whole treatise called "On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis" which starting with Gen. 1:1, asks questions that would bewilder (and, possibly, enrage) any fervent literalist. I don't mind that so many people feel that it must be taken literally but it seems to me that that approach misses so much of the richness of the text.
Of course, it works the other way around, too. People who still get all uptight because the OT classes bats among birds also need to remember that it isn't a science text book. There is something else going on.
Quote from: Plain Jane on May 01, 2012, 11:20:34 PMI don't mind that so many people feel that it must be taken literally but it seems to me that that approach misses so much of the richness of the text.Welcome Plain Jane,I agree. But what are your thoughts on original sin? If Adam and Eve, the tree, and the talking snake are allegorical- what does this mean for sin? What about souls? Are those concepts allegory as well? And if it is, what does this mean for the Jesus character in the New Testament? Where does the metaphorical view end and the literalism begin?
The details are actually quite fascinating-- the story, tree, snake, and all, is actually quite sophisticated. Maybe we can talk about that another time.
Original sin is a funny subject. Not every denomination understands it the same way. We (the RCC) are adamant that Christians should understand that we do not inherit the guilt of Adam. Thus we are not punished for what he did. Rather, we suffer because of what Adam did.
Well, they may or may not be allegorical but, and in this venue I need to use the word carefully, they are certainly mythological. Now myth, as literary types tend to use the word, does not mean fiction. It means that the story reflects certain truths but, clearly, the author wasn't there and is handing on his people's collective understanding of the past and God's dealings with humanity.
Story is, after all, the chief way the ancients remembered and passed on their histories. In other words, I agree with the RCC that the story tells us about an event at the beginning of human history that broke the intimate bond between God and man. The details are actually quite fascinating-- the story, tree, snake, and all, is actually quite sophisticated. Maybe we can talk about that another time.
Jesus is in a different category. We have a number of contemporary and near contemporary primary historical sources that testify to his existence and doings. Something I notice frequently is that many atheists assume that the Bible is a book. It isn't. It is a compilation of a lot of books. In the New Testament we have 26 independent, primary, historical sources that tell us about a specific person at a specific time and place. (I leave Revelation out, since it is an example of apocalyptic literature-- a genre beloved at the time but hardly to be taken literally.) We don't have nearly as much good evidence for most of the people in the ancient world, produced so near in time, too, as we do for Jesus. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of trained historians who deny the historicity of Jesus.
Original sin is a funny subject. Not every denomination understands it the same way.
We (the RCC) are adamant that Christians should understand that we do not inherit the guilt of Adam. Thus we are not punished for what he did. Rather, we suffer because of what Adam did. Essentially, what died first when Adam disobeyed God was the perfect spiritual nature he had been given-- What he lost, he could no longer pass on to his descendants. Thus, we have a propensity to sin that none of us can resist.
It fascinates me that you find a story written by people in 0BC to still be fascinating..
I see. So rather than original sin you believe in an ancestral sin. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I do love the equivocation between punishment and suffer. One suffers a punishment, Jane. If we did nothing wrong, we should not have to suffer for it, if your god is the benevolent being you claim. It's like saying well "suzy spilt the milk and was punished by having no cookies, but we're also not giving any cookies to jimmy because he was on the planet at the same time".
And funny for Adam having a "perfect spiritual nature" that he screwed up first thing. I guess it wasn't so perfect.
There was an original sin, the disobedience of Adam, and the result of that was the loss of the uncorrupted spiritual nature with which he had been endowed at creation. Since he no longer had it, he could not pass it on to his children. All he had to give was his corrupted nature. So, we, like all who have gone before, inherit it, too.
Oh? Tell that to the 4 children who, as I type this, are grieving for their father who was killed by a drunk driver last night. The drunk's sin is the cause of the kids' suffering; such is the nature of reality. They did nothing to deserve it. No man is an island and all that. What we do impacts others around us, sometimes with horrific results.
Yes, it was perfect. Some people don't take the notion of free will seriously enough. God could have created a race of puppets. For some reason he did not. We really are the masters of our destiny in the way that ultimately matters. It is a great gift but a terrifying one, too.
But you said "we do not inherit the guilt of Adam." It kind of looks like you are saying we did.
No, I do not mean to say that at all. But what Adam did impacts the rest of us.
The drunk is at fault, not some magical sin.
Now, if your god does exist, I do wonder about such a god that does nothing and allows a father to be killed by a drunk. As I pointed out, and which you avoided, your bible has nothing about free will, so why not interfere with a miracle yet again? Omnipotent, omniscient surely he can? Or was it part of "God's Plan" that a man die with four children now grieving?
I am not sure I understand. All actions have consequences. There was an original sin, the disobedience of Adam, and the result of that was the loss of the uncorrupted spiritual nature with which he had been endowed at creation. Since he no longer had it, he could not pass it on to his children. All he had to give was his corrupted nature. So, we, like all who have gone before, inherit it, too.
The idea behind original sin is that every human to be conceived after "The Fall" deserve hell due to the liability of the first, original sin. I like to similize this with beating new born puppies with a newspaper because their mother peed on the floor.By comparison ancestral sin isn't nearly as radical. This concept of sin acknowledges that while a gateway sin did occur, we aren't responsible for it. So it doesn't suggest that a person is liable for another person's transgression. The first sin does allow for sin into individual lives, and it is the burden faced by all to come since Adam.Does this help clear things up?
By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act. ...Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called "concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.


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Mulliken woman sentenced to 12 to 60 months in prison in 2011 fatal crash
A Mulliken woman who was driving a car in which her fiancé was killed in 2011 was sentenced Tuesday in Ionia County 8th Circuit Court to serve 12 to 60 months with the Michigan Department of Corrections.
Shayna Baker, 32, could be sent to Special Alternative Incarceration (SAI) Boot Camp after she serves eight months for three additional months. She also received costs, fines and fees, plus $450 in restitution, with additional restitution amounts reserved.
Baker pleaded no contest July 17 to one felony charge of operating while intoxicated causing serious injury. A second charge of possession of methamphetamine was dismissed.
"This was not an accident. This was someone driving under the influence of a substantial amount of meth," said Prosecuting Attorney Ron Schafer during Baker's sentencing. "(Baker's) previous criminal history shows this was bound to happen. This is a sentence that has been earned. There was a death here and she is responsible for that death."
According to an investigation by Michigan State Police, Baker was driving on Keefer Highway near Clarksville Road in Sebewa Twp. on Jan. 13, 2011, when she lost control of the vehicle due to slippery roads, crossed the center line and was hit by an oncoming car. Her passenger, Scott Schafer, 40, of Portland died at the scene.
Baker then "disappeared," said Schafer, until she was booked into the Eaton County Jail on a suspicion of marijuana charge. Baker was turned over to Michigan State Police on Jan. 9, 2012, and returned to the Ionia County Jail.
According to 64-A District Court records, Baker has two prior convictions for operating under the influence of alcohol/unlawful bodily alcohol content in 2001 and 2006. Two other 2006 charges, one for driving while license suspended and one for open alcohol in a motor vehicle-driver, were dismissed.
Baker's attorney, Jeff Winters, called the incident "tragic all around," adding that the amount of methamphetamine and its impact on Baker's system still is in question, and that the weather conditions the night of the incident were "awful.
"(Baker) has taken responsibility in the criminal justice system. She feels pain, and she can only imagine what (Schafer's) mother and son feel," said Winters. "She has to live with this the rest of her life, with the guilt and the loss of someone she loved."
Schafer's mother and son wrote letters to Chief Judge Suzanne Hoseth Kreeger on Baker's behalf.
"I am truly sorry," Baker said through tears. "I understand the Schafer family's great loss. We have suffered the loss, too. I accept full responsibility."
Kreeger noted Baker's previous involvement with the court.
"Those were opportunities to embrace the battle against addiction. You didn't," she said. "Now we are faced with an unnecessary death. For that reason I find a prison sentence appropriate. I encourage you to wage that battle now, to overcome your addiction and to be the person you were intended to be."
Follow Karen Bota on Twitter @KarenB_ISS.


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Syntactic sugar/Cons
From HaskellWiki
This page is dedicated to arguments against syntactic sugar. The request for extended syntactic sugar is present everywhere and the reasons for syntactic sugar are obvious, but there are also serious objections to them. The objections listed here may help to decide when to do without syntactic sugar and which special notations should better be dropped in future versions of Haskell.
1 General
Haskell's basic syntax consists of function definition and function application. Though in some cases function application is hard to read and digs into details that are not essential for the situation they describe.For this purpose special syntaxes like
Many people seem to like Haskell only because of its syntactic sugar. But adding syntactic sugar to a language is not a big achievement. Python, Perl, C++ have lots of syntactic sugar, but I wouldn't prefer them to Haskell. Why? Because they lack the transparency of data dependency of functional programming languages, they lack static but easy to use polymorphism, they lack lazy evaluation, they lack reliable modularisation. It's not amazing that Haskell provides a lot of syntactic sugar. It's amazing that every syntactic sugar has pure functional explanations. That proves the power of the functional concept.
1.1 Syntactic heroin
Compiler writers can only lose if they give way to the insistence of users requesting more syntactic sugar. Every user has his own preferred applications, everyone has his taste and everyone wants his special application and his taste to be respected in future language revisions. Who is authorised to decide which application is general and which is too special? Is it more important to have many syntactic alternatives such that all people can write with their individual styles or is it more important that code of several authors have homogenous appearance such that it can be read by all people?
You can bet if new syntactic sugar arises many users will rush at it and forget about the analytic expression the special notation shall replace. To argue against that is like trying to take the most beloved toy from children.
Every special notation leads to the question if it can be extended and generalised. Guards are extended to pattern guards and list comprehension is generalised to parallel list comprehension in current versions of Haskell compilers. Infix notation for alphanumeric functions is already possible in Haskell98but "lacks" the possibility to add arguments like in
The last is not implemented, but was already requested. A solution using only Haskell98 infix operators is already invented. Further on, the more general MixFix notation was already proposed, not to forget the silent lifting of map data structures to functions, postfix operators, sections oftuples, like
symbolic prefix operators. What comes next?
Rodney Bates called the phenomena not only "syntactic sugar" but "syntactic heroin".
People start with a small dosis of syntactic sugar, they quickly want more, because the initial dose isn't enough for ecstasy any longer. If one drug no longer helps then stronger ones are requested. It is so much tempting because the users requesting syntactic sugar are not responsible for implementing it and for avoiding inferences with other language features.
1.2 Parse errors
Compiler users have contradictory wishes. On the one hand they want more syntactic sugar, on the other hand they want better parser error messages. They don't realize that one is quite the opposite of the other.
E.g. when a parser reads an opening bracket it doesn't know whether it is the start of a list comprehension expressionlike
or the start of a list of comma separated expressionslike
Thus if you accidentally mix bars and commas the parser don't know if you wanted to write a list comprehension or a comma separated list. So it can't tell you precisely what you made wrong.
Type error messages of GHC have already reached a complexity which can't be processed by many Haskell newbies. It is the price to be paid for a type system which tries to cope with as few as possible type hints.
Let's consider another example from the view of a compiler. Internally it transforms the source code
flip (+) 1
then it compiles it like regular functional code.
Though what happens if it encounters an error?
If it reports the error like
type error in
flip (+) 1
(as Hugs November 2002)
you wouldn't understand it,
A compiler which handles this properly must support syntactic sugar at the same level like regular syntax which is obviously more complicated.
1.3 Sugar adds complexity
Syntactic sugar are usually special grammatical constructions. They can interfere badly with other constructions:
But syntactic sugar does not only touch the compilers. Many other tools like those for syntax highlighting (emacs, nedit), source code markup (lhs2TeX), source code formatting (Language.Haskell.Pretty), source code transform (e.g. symbolic differentation), program proofs, debugging, dependency analysis, documentation extraction (haddock) are affected.
Each tool becomes more complicated by more syntactic sugar.
1.4 Flexibility
The use of functions and functions of functions (i.e. higher order functions) allows for very flexible usage of program units. This is also true for the function notation, but it is not true for some syntactic sugar.E.g.
which is not possible for list comprehension syntax.Thus
A function can get more arguments as the development goes on.If you are used to write
when the result of a function needs post-processing. Say we have the functions
isLeapYear :: Int -> Bool isLeapYear year = mod year 4 == 0 && (mod year 100 /= 0 || mod year 400 == 0) leapYearText :: Int -> String leapYearText year | isLeapYear year = "A leap year" | otherwise = "Not a leap year"
If you stick to guards you will possibly rewrite it to the clumsy
leapYearText :: Language -> Int -> String leapYearText lang year = translate lang (case () of () | isLeapYear year -> "A leap year" | otherwise -> "Not a leap year")
But what about
leapYearText :: Language -> Int -> String leapYearText lang year = translate lang (if (isLeapYear year) then "A leap year" else "Not a leap year")
leapYearText :: Int -> String leapYearText year = if (isLeapYear year) then "A leap year" else "Not a leap year"
2 Examples
The following section consider several notations and their specific problems.
2.1 Infix notation
2.1.1 Precedences
Infix notation is problematic for both human readers and source code formatters. The reader doesn't know the precedences of custom infix operators, he has to read the modules which the operators are imported from. This is even more difficult because infix operators are usually imported unqualified, that is you don't know from which module an operator is imported. The same problem arises for source code formatters. You certainly prefer the formatting
a + b * c
a + b * c
A source code formatter can format this properly only if it has access to the imported modules. This is certainly uncommon for a plain source code formatter.
The problem also occurs if you use an infix operator, that you did forget to import.
E.g. GHC-6.4.1 may say then
Main.hs:52:6: precedence parsing error cannot mix `($)' [infixl 9] and `(.)' [infixr 9] in the same infix expression
Main.hs:52:13: Not in scope: `$'
Actually, only the second error is relevant.
However, the
It has been noticed by many people, that the integer numbered precedences are not enough for describing the relations of all the infix operators. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2005-February/009260.html Fractional and negative fixities were already proposed: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2006-November/019293.html Indeed, rules like "multiplication and division precede addition and subtraction" would be more natural.
2.1.2 "Infixisation"
You can't pass an argument to a function written in infix notation.
Some library functions are designed for a "reversed" order of arguments, this means that you will most oftenly leave out the first argument on partial application rather than the second one.E.g. the functions
This is because the library designer expect that the user will prefer the infix style,writing
For functions which are not bound to a traditional notation one should avoid this order!A bad example in this respect is the module
Many of the functions of this module alter some bits in a machine word,thus they can be considered as update functions and their type signature should end with
Then you could easily combine several operations by
shiftL 2 . clearBit 7 . setBit 4 . setBit 1
instead of
flip shiftL 2 . flip clearBit 7 . flip setBit 4 . flip setBit 1
(`shiftL` 2) . (`clearBit` 7) . (`setBit` 4) . (`setBit` 1)
2.2 Lists
2.2.1 Special notation for the list typeThe type of a list over type
For beginners it becomes even more complicated to distinguish between the type and the value of a list. Some people try to do some kind of list comprehension by enclosing expressions in brackets just like it is done for the list type. See Singleton list confusion.I don't see the advantage of
2.2.2 Comma separated list elementsWe are used to the list notation
I think many Haskell users are not aware that it is a special notation.They don't know that it is a replacement for
and because of that they also can't derivethat a function for constructing single element list can be written as
There are two reasons against:
- The theoretical reason: The intuitive list notation using comma separation requires one comma less than the number of elements, an empty list would need -1 commas, which can't be written, obviously.
- The practical reason: The colon is like a terminator. Each list element is followed by the colon, thus it is easier to reorder the elements of a list in an editor. If you have written you can simply cut some elements and the subsequent ':' and then you can insert them whereever you want.(1:2:3:[])
Although the list type has so many special support by the Haskell 98 language, there is no need for some syntactic support. The definition
data List a = End | (:) a (List a)
is regular Haskell98 code.The colon should have precedence below
Again, this proves the power of the basic features of Haskell98.
2.2.3 Parallel list comprehensionParallel list comprehension can be replaced by using
3 (n+k) patterns
Therer are some notational ambiguities concerning (n+k) patterns.
See Why I hate n+k
4 If-Then-ElseThe construction
A generalisation of this syntactic exception was already proposed as "MixFix" notation. But it's worth to turn round the question:What is so special about
5 Conclusion
- Guards can be dropped completely. should be turned into a regular function.ifcould be turned into a function, i.e.case expr ofcould an expression of typecase 0 -> 'a'; 1 -> 'b';. It should be complemented byInt -> Charfunction like that in Case.select
- Infix notation is good for nested application, because reflects the represented structure better than(0:1:2:[]).((:) 0 ((:) 1 ((:) 2 [])))
- Infix usage of functions with alphanumeric names is often just a matter of habit, just for the sake of fanciness, such as which doesn't add anything to readability. If this feature is kept it should remain restricted to function names. It should not be extended to partially applied functions.toLower `map` s
- List comprehension should be used rarely, parallel list comprehension should be dropped completely.
- notation is good for representing imperative and stateful program structures.do
- patterns simulate a number representation which is not used internally and thus it must be emulated with much effort. It should be dropped. Numeric patterns such as(n+k)involve conversions like0and real comparisons (fromIntegerclass!) for matching. It should be thought about dropping them, too.Eq


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Shrek the Third (US - BD)
Gabe Powers reviews the BD release of the third in the animated movie series...
Shrek the ogre (Mike Myers) and his wife Fiona (Cameron Diaz) are pushed into the possibility of ruling Far Far Away when the king dies somewhat unexpectedly. To avoid a lifetime of public service Shrek and his friends Donkey (Eddie Murphy) and Puss in Boots (Antonio Banderas) embark on a journey to find the last heir of the kingdom. Meanwhile, Fiona announces she's pregnant, and is left behind to defend Far Far Away from a surprise attack by Prince Charming and the forces of evil.
The Shrek movies, and in turn every Dreamworks Animated feature (minus the three that Ardman had their hands on) are entirely disposable entertainment. The first one was a cute enough pop-culture attack on Disney, and I laughed at it a few times (mostly at the bits with John Lithgow), and the animation was pretty good. The second one basically sucked, and followed through on every single sequel cliché ever in a sad attempt to build on the already unoriginal premise. The third one is more of the same. A few jokes still hit, the animation looks better than ever, but it's still entirely disposable entertainment.
What's missing here isn't speedy and crystalline animation, or a few gags that aren't going to be entirely dry by a second viewing, it's imagination. There's so little imagination on display here it almost hurts, and I have nothing invested in the series. The lack of imagination plagues every facet of the film—from the art direction, to the acting, to the plot and the sense of humour.
I watch a lot of generally badly written animation, but I can stomach it if it features generally interesting character designs, and animation style. The characters of Shrek the Third are designed to look generally like real people, or at least creatures that are based on real people. It's boring. The plot doesn't need to be a revelation, in fact we should all probably expect it to be easily digested and unoriginal, but one might expect a few surprises, or at least a minor sense of abandoned. This is a sprint to the finish with only a few action set pieces to keep the runtime theatrically standard.
The saddest thing about Shrek the Third is that the Genius and Lionsgate knock-offs that followed the massive success of Shrek 2 are actually better movies. Hoodwinked is a mostly failed effort, but it features an original and honest sense of humour, while Happily N'Ever After at least featured some unique character designs. Some people might think I have it in for Dreamworks Animation, or that I'm a Pixar fanboy. Well, the second part is correct, but really this film represents clearly everything that is wrong with the studio's output, mainly the fact that no one really appears to be trying.
Digital animation in high definition, especially super expensive computer animation in high definition is always a good workout for the old television set. Shrek The Third is almost photorealistic at points, specifically the backgrounds. Details like granite, wood grain, grass and hay, and especially the deep blue sea. Human characters are still caught in the uncanny valley, and lack the emotive responses of the creatures, but their hair is very realistic, and their garment's threads are very…textured. Their skin's still a bit on the soft side though. Shrek and Fiona's models have improved over the films, especially in emotional response and skin luminosity.
The characters occasionally don't blend into their surroundings as well as the filmmakers might've liked, mostly because of a still uneasy mix of cartoony and photo real. The lighting is genuinely more interesting this time around, utilizing a more varied pallet, and a stronger sense of contrast. The black levels are slightly softer than expected, but the colours are quite vibrant and cleanly separated. Needless to say, there's pretty much zero grain or noise in this straight to digital transfer.
No surprises on the audio front here, just a solid Dolby TrueHD track culled from an expertly crafted animated mix, featuring all the usually bells and whistles. The centre channel dialogue is crystal clear, the surrounds and stereos are lively with every manner of Far Away Land characters, and the LFE channel is punchy and supportive. The Shrek films have always featured a decent pop and rock covers and adaptations, and this one is no exception. Unfortunately the two best acquisitions this time around, Zeppelin's 'Immigrant Song' and Heart's 'Barracuda' (which play right in a row) are kind of flat on disappear into the track. The score is warm and full, and pumps full throttle when called for, however.
The Blu-ray exclusive (and by 'Blu-ray' exclusive we actually mean 'HD' exclusive) 'Animator's Corner' pop-up feature didn't work on my Profile 1.0 player, but the pop-up trivia track and 'World of Shrek' options worked fine. There is, however, very little to report, as both extras are pretty dismal.
'Meet the Cast' is your basic made for TV EPK where the cast and crew praise each other's talents, and vaguely endorse the film. It runs ten and a half minutes. 'Tech of Shrek' compares the technological advances in computer animation since the release of the first two films. The focus isn't on the animation but the augmentations like fire and hair effects, and the featurette runs about ten minutes.
There are four deleted scenes presented as storyboard reading sessions. There are three angles presented on screen (non-adjustable), the storyboard, the reader, and a reaction shot of the rest of the crew. Everyone thinks the jokes are super funny. The deleted scenes all take place during Shrek, Donkey, and Puss' gathering and bringing of Arthur, and run about twenty six minutes.
The Dreamworks Kids section has three features. 'Merlin's Magic Crystal Ball' is like a digital Magic 8 Ball (I believe there was one of these on the original Shrek DVD in magic mirror form), and doesn't feature Eric Idol's voice (or even a particularly good impersonator. 'Learn the Donkey Dance' speaks for itself, while 'How to be Green' is a series of steps for living a more environmentally friendly existence.
The rest of the disc is made up of a bunch of little bits. 'Shrek's Guide to Parenthood' is a little flash animation thing where four different characters offer cause and effect parenting advise, 'Donkey Dance' is the donkey dancing for thirty seconds, 'Big Green Goofs' are a collection of terrifying animation errors, and there are Dreamworks Animation Juke Box and My Menu options.
Shrek the Third sucks, and I don't get the feeling that any of the people involved really cared. The failure of best laid plans is a tragedy, but there aren't any plans here to mourn, just a series of moving images that look vaguely realistic, and tired celebrity voices. This Blu-ray Disc looks and sounds great, but there hasn't been much effort put forth in the realm of extras, making this whole thing that much more cynical.
*Note: The images on this page are not representative of the Blu-ray release.
Review by Gabriel Powers
Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,171
The only bit I found remotely funny was the gingerbread man's life flashing before his eyes. Other than that, I barely remember any of it.
Marcus1138 Contributor Join Date: June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 910
Firstt ime i saw it, i thought "well it was better than the 2nd" when i watched I again, it was equally as ass!
I think the first is a classic though.
I think the first is a classic though.
MBanno Member Join Date: June 2008 Location: United States Posts: 139
i'm still waiting for Shrek 1 and 2 to hit ANY hd format.
Pixarfan517 Member Join Date: August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,478
I thought "Shrek the Third" was pretty good. Not as good as the first two films.
Tibor Lugosi Member Join Date: August 2008 Location: United States Posts: 59
Great review, I agree wholeheartedly! I call this Shrek the turd.
Gabe, you nailed it again!
Gabe, you nailed it again!
cinemaniac26 Member Join Date: September 2007 Location: United States Posts: 132
I actually liked this pretty well initially in the theatre (6/10), but after I bought the DVD and rewatched it, I realized 'Oh s**t, this movie sucks.' And it hasn't entered my DVD player again since. I'm with you on this one, Gabe. Good, accurate review.
Ångelus Member Join Date: July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 7
i have to disagree about Shrek 2. I thought it was a great sequel. Both the first and second were highly entertaining and original in my opinion. The third?... it could've used a lot of work. i did not like Justin Timberlake's character. he was too whiny and it did not come off amusing at all. just annoying.
Sam Spade Member Join Date: January 2007 Location: United States Posts: 2,032
Shrek the Turd - Sorry Shrek humor.
Worst Nightmare Senior Member Join Date: July 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 6,716
I agree totally Gabe - this was a real shocker - I still cannot believe they green-lighted the 4th movie...
bradavon Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,945
Personally I thought Shrek and Shrek 2 were excellent. I think you're being rather hard on Shrek 2. I'll definitely buy both on HD.
Shrek 3 however was utter tosh. Like Chris I only laughed once but that was even so forgettable I've forgotten at what point it was.
Shrek 3 however was utter tosh. Like Chris I only laughed once but that was even so forgettable I've forgotten at what point it was.
knight d Member Join Date: November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 221
Yeah I like Shrek 2 also. The 3rd was horrible, Wall-E will be my first animated blu disc. Besides Gotham Knight.
wnicholas76 Member Join Date: June 2008 Location: United States Posts: 281
Dreamworks just needs to stop making Shrek movies altogether!!
Tyler Foster Member Join Date: October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 717
The first Shrek was pretty awesome. The second had some good parts, like the COPS parody, and the animation in both was truly dazzling, but the villains were like anti-comedy, most of the other jokes were tired and the ending was abysmal. I avoided the third one, although I did like the gag in the trailer with Pinocchio not lying to Prince Charming.
Blue-Kal-El Member Join Date: October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 602
Good review...haven't seen this, but will rent it just for the visual eye candy...dislike both Shrek and Shrek 2, because of repeat value and lack of any other type of value...
HagenDarth Member Join Date: October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 321
"The second one basically sucked...?" I understand if you meant the 3rd, as it certainly was a letdown, but Shrek 2 was funny.
Gabe Powers Editor Join Date: September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4,721
Shrek 2 basically sucked. Shrek 3 really sucked.
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Disc Details
Release Date: 23rd September 2008
Discs: 1
Disc Type: Blu-ray Disc
RCE: No
Video: 1080p
Aspect: 1.78:1
Anamorphic: No
Colour: Yes
Audio: Dolby TrueHD 5.1 English, Dolby Digital 5.1 French, Dolby Digital 5.1 Spanish
Subtitles: English HoH, French, and Spanish
Extras: Animator's Corner, Pop-Up Trivia, World of Shrek, Meet the Cast, Tech of Shrek, Merlin's Crystal Ball, How to be Green, Learn the Donkey Dance, Deleted Scenes, Trailers
Easter Egg: No
Feature Details
Director: Chris Miller
Cast: Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy, Julie Andrews, Antonio Banderas, Rupert Everett, Larry King, Ian McShane
Genre: Animation and Comedy
Length: 92 minutes
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GARDENDALE | A prominent Alabama pastor fatally shot his wife and wounded their 18-year-old daughter in their church-owned home before grabbing a kitchen knife and trying to stab himself to death, police said Friday.
The Rev. Terry Greer, 54, is being charged with murder in the slaying of 52-year-old Lisa Greer and attempted murder in the wounding of Suzanna Greer, a University of South Alabama student, according to police in Gardendale, a suburb about 10 miles north of Birmingham.
Greer is senior pastor at Gardendale-Mount Vernon United Methodist Church near Birmingham. Prominent in Methodist circles in the area, he leads a church with an average Sunday attendance of about 670.
After Greer opened fire on his wife and daughter Thursday, the teenager grabbed the gun and ran to a neighbor's house to alert authorities, police said.
The minister then grabbed a kitchen knife and went to a bathroom, where he repeatedly stabbed himself in his chest and neck, police said. Responding officers stopped Greer and took him into custody.
Lisa Greer died early Friday at Birmingham Hospital, and police said the couple's daughter is expected to make a full recovery.
Authorities did not disclose details on where the women were wounded or how many times they were shot.
Greer underwent surgery and remained hospitalized with self-inflicted knife wounds, said Police Chief Mike Walker. When he is stabilized, Greer will be arrested and held on $135,000 bond, police said.
The reverend has been on medical leave since experiencing heart problems and a car accident in autumn, and details on what may have led up to the violence were not immediately available.
"We're not going to speculate on motive or anything like that," Walker said during a news conference.
Police said the family has lived in the Birmingham area since the middle of 2012, and authorities have never been called to their house before the shooting. Before moving to the Birmingham area, authorities say the reverend worked at a church in Decatur.
A worship leader at Greer's church was recently arrested on charges of soliciting a child for sex and traveling to have sex with a child, but Walker said there did not appear to be any link between that case and the shootings.
A note posted on the church's Facebook page said a counselor would be on hand for members in need of help.
"The Bishop and the Conference are being proactive in helping us as a church to cope with this tragedy," the note said.
Police say Ala. pastor killed wife, wounded his daughter
GARDENDALE | A prominent Alabama pastor fatally shot his wife and wounded their 18-year-old daughter in their church-owned home before grabbing a kitchen knife and trying to stab himself to death, police said Friday.


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The issue of the Commerce Clause and the 2nd Amendment is in no way settled, based on my searches. Your analysis is not exhaustive - just do a little searching.
As to the question about the grenade - court cases ruled that sawed-off shotguns were not protected "arms" under the 2nd Amendment. Regulation of grenades, bazookas, tanks, and similar weapons seems to be covered.
This is turning into an interesting exercise again.
Why don't you include yours here instead of saying "just do a little searching"?
Ergo, "arms" can be and are regulated and there is no reason whatsoever that your ability to purchase and keep firearms of any kind can also be regulated.
Quote from: DumpsterFire on April 28, 2013, 03:39:18 AMI don't think it is fair to conclude that registration leads to confiscation, but it would obviously make certain weapons easier to locate in the event they become banned.Read this out loud to yourself over and over until it sinks in. Fair? Locate?Watch this warning from Canada.
I don't think it is fair to conclude that registration leads to confiscation, but it would obviously make certain weapons easier to locate in the event they become banned.
There is no registry of guns in the US, except for certain restricted guns, like fully-automatic weapons.
Just watch the video a few more times, and then you'll understand. If you don't understand, then you never will.
QuoteSo how are they getting the weapons and ammo?Illegally. Another law won't stop that.
So how are they getting the weapons and ammo?
Isn't that what you want, more laws?
Let's just throw out the 4th Amendment, along with the 2nd Amendment. Is that what you are saying?
We already have laws for that. Today, for all practical purposes, 50 million households holding 250 million guns were not responsible for one gun-related death. At least in a statistically significant sense.
Watch this warning from Canada.
the Firearms Act is a poorly written mess.
... and scared the men off his property by firing over their heads.
...armed himself with a .38 calibre revolver, stepped outside his home and fired three shots — one into his lawn, and two into a stand of trees.
Canada allows people to claim self-defence for using force, including guns, to protect their life as long as the force is reasonable and they believe they have no other options."If the public are wondering can you run out of your house and [fire a handgun at an intruder], the bottom line is, according to the laws of Canada, no, you can't," said Constable Nilan Dave of the Niagara Regional Police Service, which charged Mr. Thomson. "That's why the courts are there, to give a person an opportunity to explain their actions."
His collection of seven guns, five pistols and two rifles was seized, along with his firearms licence.
Then his neighbour's chickens began showing up on his property. He warned his neighbour, then killed one of the birds.
"He's not perfect by any means, but he's a good man," the relative said. "He's a God-fearing man. If what had happened there had happened here, and it hadn't been times like now, everything would be O.K., because everybody would know him."
Capener stabbed people at the altar repeatedly, sending four churchgoers to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries, according to authorities.
I don't know about Canadian law, but my understanding is in the US you are not allowed to "scare people off" by mencaing with your gun or by shooting over their heads or aiming to wound. You are allowed to shoot someone if you reasonably believe your life is in danger. If his life was in danger, why was he not shooting at them? If it was not in danger, why was he shooting at all? I understand why there was at least an investigation.
I wish the forum software included a feature for ignoring threads.
I won't even address the whole post.
Men were fire bombing his house. He was a firearms instructor. If he was a good instructor, and a good shot, he could have killed them and claimed self-defense.
Instead he fired over their heads and into a tree to scare them off.
And, he's somehow the bad guy?
"Defend yourself, without destroying others."
Let me reiterate: he killed a chicken, and then they were fire bombing his house.
OMG, dude. Terrible argument. Total non sequitur. I agree the sentencing was unreasonably light. And I agree the prosecutor may have been overly zealous. But it in no way actually connects Canada's registry to his prosecution.
This is exactly what I want to have happen to someone who has been charged with a violent crime. Without an accurate registry, they might not have known about any of the other weapons.
If it turned out he was a bad guy, he'd still have a ton of guns.
I have never understood the kind of asshole who shoots neighbors pets just because they got onto their property. I'm not saying shooting a chicken warrants firebombing his house. I'm just saying, the guy looks like almost a big a part of the problem as his neighbor.
(from your later post) But if you had to use violence, there was a saying: If you try to bruise me, I will make you bleed. If you try to make me bleed, I will break your bones. If you try to break my bones, I will take your life, but I will pray for your soul as I do it.
It might not be tied directly to gun registration, but it at least indirectly shows the idiocy of Canada's laws.
In my state in the US, you are allowed to use force against force. Deadly force can be countered with deadly force. You might beg to differ, but from my perspective four men hurling fire bombs at my house is deadly force.
He lived up to the highest martial arts (and gun arts) standard of defending himself, and his property, without destroying others.
You should be a policeman or prosecutor, then. Everybody is guilty until proven innocent. He was charged with crimes, not convicted of them. Those charges were dropped.
"Bad guys don't obey the laws."
There are bad guys in Canada who did not register their guns.
"If you shoot my chicken, I will fire bomb your house..."
It definitely has nothing to do gun registration. The only connect between this case and gun registration is that both have something to do with gun laws. That's it. That video was scare propaganda.
Repeat those two paragraphs out loud. Then write them 10 times each. It will help you come to grips with reality.
As for my argument being obliterated, nope. My point was the incident should have been investigated. It was. Whether the charges were dropped is incidental.
Who the heck are you arguing with? Are you even reading my posts? I'm the guy who said he should have shot them.
Really? You want people who have been charged with violent crimes or gun violations to be able to keep their weapons until they are proven guilty? A gang-banger out on bail for killing someone should get to keep his gun until after the trial? A husband who assaults his wife gets to keep his guns until the after the trial?
Wild, Wild, West. That is where this moronic idea logically leads.
A lot of bad guys aren't bad guys until they are. That is, not all bad guys have always been bad guys. A person can follow the law and then not.
That's kind of funny.
He thought his wife was in love with another man, police say, so James McFillin of Baltimore decided to blow the other man up.It was 1979 in Baltimore. McFillin wired two sticks of an explosive called Tovex 220 into the electrical system of a truck belonging to Nathan Allen Sr., killing Allen and injuring another man, prosecutors said.What McFillin did not know was that his Tovex was "tagged," as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives would say. His two sticks were part of about 7 million pounds of explosives that manufacturers had laced with microscopic, color-coded plastic particles called "taggants" as part of a $5 million experiment to test the ability of taggants to identify explosives.
......... there is the classic NRA "slippery slope" worry: A program that requires keeping records on who buys explosives could ease the way to national gun registration. The gun lobby views gun registration as tantamount to confiscation, despite the many Supreme Court decisions that have upheld the constitutional right to bear arms
In a telephone chat, I asked William Kerns, president of Microtrace, the Minneapolis-based company that makes taggants, how he feels about the NRA's concerns. He drew a distinct line of difference between firearms and explosives. "I'm a member of the NRA," he said, noting that he was a retired captain in the Minneapolis Police Reserve, "and I don't want to have to register my gun."However, when I asked him about concerns over the safety and stability of explosives to which taggants were added, he said, "They've been requiring it in Switzerland for about 30 years, and I haven't heard any complaints."
I disagree.
Canada's inane gun laws have everything to do with registration.
If you read the accounts of Thomson's arrest, you see that he was charged with careless use of a firearm, pointing a firearm and two charges of careless storage of a firearm, one for each of the pistols he had removed from his gun safe. The first two charges were dropped, because he was obviously defending himself. He was acquitted of the other two.
The whole goal of the Canadian gun laws are to keep people from having free use of their firearms.
You have to keep a handgun locked in a box, and the ammunition locked in a separate box.
The whole idea is to prevent you from being able to use the firearm and ammunition.
Registration is an extension of those laws. They are all degrees of the same idea.
He wasn't a criminal, by the way.
Here I disagree. He did what a reasonable person should have done. He called 911, and then used his firearms to dissuade the attackers without causing injury.
Allegedly killing someone, and Allegedly assaulting his wife. As I said, guilty until proven innocent.
Total nonsense.
Under this logic, no one should be allowed to own a gun, because they could turn bad at any instant.
We probably would get along fine in the real world. Just don't fuck around with my guns, please.
Nick's girlfriend (in photo)
It's time for last week's Gun Fail! YaaaaY!
Accidental shooting deaths have declined since 1981, with just 609 nationwide in 2010, the last year of available data. To say it another way, accidental deaths from guns have fallen nearly 70 percent in the last 30 years. This incredible success story has not received much attention because it is attributable, in large measure, to efforts of the NRA's education and training division, which has led the way in providing firearm training to millions of men, women and children.
Quote from: Odin on April 30, 2013, 05:09:06 PM You have to keep a handgun locked in a box, and the ammunition locked in a separate box. Quote from: screwtape on April 30, 2013, 08:40:10 PMI thought that was basic gun safety. Is it not?
I thought that was basic gun safety. Is it not?
If the point is to have fewer people killed with guns, then this is one way to do it. People with guns should be trying to find other solutions rather than killing someone. My bedroom has an entrance door. If someone came into my house (though another door) while I was there, I could avoid all trouble just by leaving. I would not have to stand my ground, nor would I be tempted to, even if I had a gun. Standing my ground inherently means putting myself at risk. And that is stupid.
The gun control currently spreading across America would more aptly be called pre-gun confiscation or even more extreme, pre-genocide.
The United States is at war. It's not a declared war; right now it's a war of words and ideas. It's a battle for the minds of Americans and it's as fierce as any conflict we have ever fought in our history.
On Tuesday, inside a rural Kentucky home, a five-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his two-year-old sister. The boy had been playing with a .22 caliber single-shot Crickett rifle made and marketed for kids. The children's mother was reportedly outside the house when the shooting took place, and apparently didn't know that the gun contained a shell."Just one of those crazy accidents," said the Cumberland County coroner, according to the Lexington Herald-Leader.