text:
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text:
LWN.net: KDE 4 Gets More Hot New Stuff
This week's LWN looks at Get New Hot Stuff in KDE 4. Improvements currently being made by lead developer
Khtml blacklist
Can we imagine konqueror using KNS to keep some blacklist up to date? (like with the "AdBlock Plus" firefox extension)?
By Vincent at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
yes, but as you might have read from the article, it won't update it automatically.
>Although KNS 2 is not capable of automatically downloading
By superstoned at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
auto update on items would be cool to :|
By chrissel at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
Yes, but they could do this:
"Content providers can offer automatic synchronization by listing references to files on a network rather than the files themselves. When the application attempts to access this quasi-installed content, it will have to fetch it from the server using KIO rather than a local directory. In this way, the content will always appear up to date to the user."
By Anonymous at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
that sounds nasty for offline users.
By Chani at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
sounds like a no issue for khtml blacklist
By ac at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
oh yeah.. that, uh, makes sense. :)
By Chani at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
still, how often would it check??? I wouldn't want too much traffic...
By superstoned at Tue, 2007/04/03 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
If it's aware of the new stuff why can't it automatically download it?
By ben at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Khtml blacklist
It's probably a deliberate design decision...
By Rob at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Is there any way for a sysadmin to lock down Get Hot New Stuff?
By ben at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Lockdown
Good question! Maybe there's a download directory or config file you could write-protect, but this should have security designed-in, I agree.
By Jel at Wed, 2007/04/11 - 5:00am
Get Hot New Config
What *would* be cool is if you could publish the entire set of your KDE program configurations to a server (minus personal things like email/im addresses), and let people download and try them out. I'd love to browse people's *personal* configurations online. (Does that make me sound like a voyeur?).
KDE has so many settings that can be tweaked, and I enjoy seeing how other people have their systems configured when I go to events like aKademy.
By alsuren at Sat, 2007/03/31 - 5:00am
Re: Get Hot New Config
I think the idea is great!
Maybe a Hot New stuff for the systemsettings.
KDE can be widely customized, and I think most people (me included) never get real indepth knowledge about the things they can do.
I think the publishing my KDE config/layout/... could give KDE a really big boost.
"KDE: Your Desktop how You want it... with ease"
If these settings include a diff from the default settings, they could have an even greater impact.
But if they need specific programs, plugins and similar to work, publishing your config that way could require deep integration into the distribution you use.
It might have to install plugins and programs (or prompt the user), and it might have to remember which ones it installed, so they can be deinstalled when you switch to another preconfig (or the user can be prompted to deinstall them).
By Arne Babenhause... at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Get Hot New Config - Me Too!
Me too!
I would love such a utility (even though I know it's an impossible dream thanks to things like screen resolution differences, distribution differences, etc.)
"Click here to use Linus's desktop configuration."
By Jeorb at Thu, 2007/04/05 - 5:00am
I wish they would change the name. "Hot new stuff" sounds like something a 6 year old came up with, not a professional desktop component. How about "Aftermarket content" or something similar.
By John at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
Could you possibly come up with a duller name?
By me at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
What is wrong with self documenting names?
By reihal at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
"Aftermarket content" self documenting? I wouldn't know what it means if it weren't mentioned in the hot new stuff thread :-)
By infopipe at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
How about "Self-Leverageing community content"?
There is nothing wrong with "self documenting" but sometimes a name is just painfully souless, that should be avoided.
By ben at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
How about "Kackle"?
By reihal at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
I couldn't agree more! Every time I read "Hot new stuff" I literally cringe. It's not that the name itself is bad, it's just horrible inconsistent. When I look at the Kmenu and see the handy descriptions of applications I don't see "new fangled text editor" for Kate or "where you're spam is held" for Kmail. KDE has always used easy to understand, no nonsense language. "Hot new stuff," on the other hand, is totally culturally dependent (I wonder how it translates in other languages) and fails to mesh seamlessly with the rest of KDE's consistent use of language.
By Sean Kellogg at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
My personal ground for objection is the use of English. KDE naming should be language-neutral.
By Andy at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
The only time the user actually sees "Get Hot New Stuff" is after they've opened the GHNS window in an application. Like in Amarok the button that opens the GHNS window is called "Get More Scripts" and "Download Styles". People aren't going to be manually running the GHNS independent of any other application from the KMenu, so they'll only see the name after they're already into it.
I'm no translation expert but I'd figure it wouldn't be too hard to translate and localize the name into other languages (I'm sure most languages have equivalents for 'hot' or 'neat' or 'cool' or 'awesome' as well as 'stuff').
Also GHNS isn't a description, its a name that doesn't make people think 'named by a computer'.
By Sutoka at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
I like "Get Hot New Stuff". it makes sense, and it somehow feels like it's encouraging me to install the stuff. :) it's a nice friendly name.
By Chani at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
Except that for non-english speaker, they don't understand it and it's complicated.
By Richard Van Den Boom at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
Wouldn't they be using a translated, localized version then?
By Andre at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
You should not have to translate the name of an app. Amarok is the same in every language, so does KDE. An app or a service should have a short name. It does not really matter if it's understood or not (nobody has issue with "word" or "itunes"), as it is a name for most people. But Get Hot New Stuff is not a name and is thus more complicated for people who do not speak english. Besides, it sounds like a bad commercial. :-)
By Richard Van Den Boom at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
Get Hot New Stuff isn't an application, it is a technology applications like Amarok can use, and the only real user visible time you would see the name is in the title bar for the GHNS window after you explicitly opened it from the application. Consider it closer to the file selection dialog than an application.
By Corbin at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
"Get hot new stuff" is as good a name as "Open file." As far as anyone should be concerned, they are both features and should have easy-to-understand names. Though it could be a bit less childish...maybe "Download add-on's" or such...
By Michael H. at Fri, 2007/04/06 - 5:00am
Re: Name
Full ACK! Though I usually like innovative names like Amarok - this is really a bit too much. It's just too geeky to be taken seriously.
By Michael at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
With the exception that a lot of the names aren't pronounceable...
Amarok? Let see:
Who knows how to pronounce that.
Shall I start in on Kivio?
I love the apps in and of themselves, but geesh...
"Hot New Stuff" certainly isn't the best name, but it's very easy to pronounce and you have a better idea what it is for just at a glance.
By Xanadu at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
But that's not a problem of the Name, but a problem of the english language: It simply has not enough pronounciation rules.
By PolitikerNEU at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
This is good Linux tradition: You know how to spell "Linux", especially the "i" and the "u"? :p Even Linus Torvalds had to make it clear how to spell it right (hint: do never spell it "English", German spelling is quite next to his spelling).
For me (as a German) Amarok is as easy as Linux, and I never had any problems with Kivio and the infamous K of KDE is in many places inspired from German (which does have more K's than English, thanks to the orthography reform of 1901, previous to that it used as many "C"s as English).
But on the other hand in German you often have troubles with "strange" English names. For example our lovely text editor "Kate". It is a English girl name but in German you spell it different and it even has a different meaning although it is not used very much in today's German (a "Kate" is a lowly farmhouse where animals and humans are living under one roof).
My personal objection out of these language troubles are:
By Arnomane at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name in Esperanto - URLs
I'll second using words from Esperanto.
And since not everyone knows Esperanto, here's an URL to get basic infos:
If you search for a name, these two could come in handy.
Also interesting are:
And for all the Germans in here:
By Arne Babenhause... at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
"Full ACK! Though I usually like innovative names like Amarok - this is really a bit too much. It's just too geeky to be taken seriously."
Take a quick look around the Internet, and you'll find a lot of websites with a respectable amount of traffic that get it from offering hot, free or cool new spywar^Wstuff to a market that is decidedly non-geeky. It's a snappy name that's understandable to anyone who speaks english, and I'm sure the name can be changed for other localities.
Now if they'd have given it a recursive acronym like "GHS Hot Stuff" or similiar, that would be geeky.
By Marc at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Name
"Now if they'd have given it a recursive acronym like "GHS Hot Stuff" or similiar, that would be geeky."
Not to be a nitpicker here.. but...
"GHS Hot Stuff" is not a recursive acronym :)
"GHS" alone would be one...
You don't say:
but you do say:
A recursive acronym for it could be:
A better non playful (and way more serious) name might be:
By Larpon at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
Well, I don't have anything against the name myself, but maybe people would be more comfortable with just "KNewStuff"?
By Darkelve at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am
Re: Name
I wish people would stop trying to get market speech everywhere. Fuck, you even needed to put in the word "market" in your proposal. It doesn't make the product more professional, it just makes it seem like an advertisement. What's not to cringe about then?
Look, KDE isn't produced by or for marketers. It's free. Why should it try to emulate the business world?
By Gjøk at Fri, 2007/04/06 - 5:00am
Hot New Stuff
I thought Hot New Stuff was a stroke mag.
Man, am I disappointed!
By T. J, Brumfield at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: Hot New Stuff
I concur. :)
By Brrrr at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
package management
At some point this will have to incorporate full-blown package management features, namely tracking and resolving dependencies and allowing for manual and automatic updates of installed packages. Dependencies actually come in three forms: 1) the version of the host program (e.g. Amarok) 2) other installed packages from the GHNS system and 3) dependencies on the host system (e.g. some python library). Admittedly that makes the problem a bit tricky, but IMHO that is not a good reason to force the end user to solve it.
Today the developer of a GHNS package, and the user, have to work around the fact that the system does not handle dependencies internally. One way this is done today (by developers) is by making monolithic bundles of parts that would actually be more logical to package separately (e.g the Lyriki-Lyrics family of scripts for Amarok). Still, there is quite a bit of guesswork required on the part of the user and there is no guarantee that an installed package will work.
What plans are there to add such capabilities to the system? Could that make it already into the second generation system? My hunch is that rather than going for a home-grown partial solution, one might just as well rip the logic from a proven code base such as Debian's apt?
Thanks for a cool KDE feature!
By Martin at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: package management
Point 2 is probably the trickiest. But, yes, I'd love to see all 3 of those dependency checks included.
By Thomas Zander at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Re: package management
Well, you know, it's likely simply not going to be everything possible. If it's not self-contained, it won't fly, for starters.
By Debian User at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Jonatan Riddle Vetoes KDE 4 April Fool's Prank
Why did you remove it? Huh? Weird...
By fish at Sun, 2007/04/01 - 5:00am
Why not something like KSTUFF etc...
Why not something like KSTUFF
Anything other than "More Hot New Stuff"
By KDE Power User at Tue, 2007/04/03 - 5:00am
Hot new stuff
For some applications it would be great if there was "Boring Old Stuff" packaged with the software. think of Ktouch. I makes a horrible impression to first time users when there are not example lessons for the software shipped with the program.
By pod at Tue, 2007/04/03 - 5:00am
KDE 4 is becoming a complete platform for modern application developers. Very impressive.
By Till Eulenspiegel at Thu, 2007/04/05 - 5:00am
incredible possibilities!
Great work!
By Heiko Braun at Sat, 2007/04/07 - 5:00am


text:
Wednesday, May 18
How to Buy, Store and Cook with Pea Shoots
A couple of weeks ago I experienced a revelation: I tasted my first pea shoot.
I was at the Little Italy Mercato buying Asian produce from The Vangs, also known as Mr. and Mrs. Green. After purchasing Thai basil, fresh ginger and sugar snap peas, I asked, "What do pea shoots taste like?"
She replied, with no sarcasm, "Peas."
She tore a small piece off one of the leaves and handed it to me. I bit into it and suddenly the sun broke through the clouds, harp music began playing, and I floated ever so slightly off of the pavement.
OK, that's not exactly what happened. There was no harp music. It was Spanish music being played by a local band.
Pea shoots are the leaves and tendrils of pea plants, usually sugar snap peas. But they're so much more than that. With their celery green leaves and wispy curly cues, they look like Nature's wedding bouquet. As for the taste, Mrs. Green was right. Peas shoots taste just like fresh English peas -- refreshingly crisp and somehow both sweet and grassy.
Pea shoot season is frighteningly short, lasting only three to four weeks, so when you see pea shoots, buy them. It can start as early as April or as late as June depending upon where they're being grown. Here is San Diego, we're nearing the end of our season because pea shoots can't survive the heat. Fortunately, they'll return for a short time in the fall.
Here's what you need to know to buy, store and cook with pea shoots:
Where can you buy pea shoots? Try farmers' markets first then organic and specialty markets. Look for fresh, brightly colored, crisp bunches void of yellowed stalks and leaves. If you can't find them, ask the produce manager at your local market if they're available.
How do you store pea shoots? Place them inside a brown paper bag, or wrap them with paper towel, and place in the crisper drawer of your refrigerator. They should last 2 to 3 days.
How do you cook with pea shoots? First, cut off any yellowed or thick stems, then tear into small pieces. Eat them raw by tossing them into salads or eating them out of hand. Like most greens, pea shoots can be steamed, boiled, sauteed and stir-fried. Whichever cooking method you choose, be sure to cook the pea shoots quickly and lightly; you just want to wilt them.
Here are five simple ways to cook with pea shoots:
1. Saute lightly in extra virgin olive oil, and douse with fresh lemon juice and a sprinkling of salt and pepper.
2. Saute lightly in sesame oil and crushed garlic, and sprinkle with toasted sesame seeds and cayenne pepper.
3. Add to warm pasta with extra virgin olive oil, fresh lemon juice and zest, grated Parmesan cheese, and cracked black pepper.
4. Toss into scrambled eggs with grated Parmesan cheese and salt and pepper.
5. Add to soups such as a gingery Asian chicken noodle.
Fresh Pea Shoot, Sugar Snap Pea and Orange Salad
Makes 4 side or 2 main servings
Printable recipe.
1 small bunch fresh pea shoots, large stems removed, and hand torn, about 2 packed cups
1 cup fresh sugar snap peas
1 large orange, peel and cut into segments
1 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil
2 tablespoons champagne vinegar
1 tablespoon fresh squeezed orange juice
2 teaspoons orange zest
1/8 teaspoon salt
1/8 - 1/4 teaspoon freshly ground pepper
1. Toss pea shoots, sugar snap peas, and orange segments in a medium bowl.
2. In a small bowl, whisk remaining ingredients. Taste and adjust as necessary. Pour over salad, toss well and serve.
Variation: Add sauteed shrimp or scallops lightly sauteed in sesame oil.
You might also enjoy these pea shoots recipes:
Mabu Tofu with Pea Shoots recipe from The Food Librarian
Crostini with Ramps and Pea Shoots recipe from Taste Food
Sesame, Edamame, and Pea Shoot Salad recipe from Taste Space
Pea Shoots with Shrimp, Bacon, and Chives recipe from Dishing Up Delights
You might also like to know more about:
Tatsoi, a tasty Asian green in the cabbage family.
Mizuna, a bold Japanese mustard green.
27 comments:
- Laura @ Sprint 2 the Table said...
Such a gorgeous salad! I was just in the farmer's market befuddled by pea shoots. Now I need to run back and get them so I can try this!
- May 18, 2011 at 6:56 AM
- janet @ the taste space said...
I agree, love pea shoots. I am actually growing them right now so I can have them super cheap.
Love your salad with the orange vinaigrette. :)
- May 18, 2011 at 8:50 AM
- Joanne said...
Well I've yet to see pea shoots at the farmer's market so I either missed it somehow or it's still in store for me! I will definitely be seeking them out now that I have this recipe to make with them!
- May 18, 2011 at 10:19 AM
- Anna said...
There's a small hole in the wall restaurant in chinatown that I go to every time I'm there and while I normally like to experiment and try new things, I always get the same two dishes when I'm there. I get their salted soft shell crab, which is by far the best thing ever invented, and I get their garlicky lightly stir fried pea shoots. Pure nirvana. If you come at a slow time, you'll catch the chef (a tiny old Chinese woman) sitting at one of the round family style tables covered with a giant pile of the green shoots, sorting and tearing them into pieces. Now I'm hungry and your salad looks beautiful!
- May 18, 2011 at 11:30 AM
- Miss Iona Lion said...
oh i love pea shoots. and not just a pretty face, tasty too. really nice dressed with lemon and olive oil over a risotto.
- May 18, 2011 at 12:58 PM
- Susan from Food Blogga said...
laura-Ha! Here's to no longer being befuddled! Enjoy the pea shoots.
janet-I have a feeling your price is going to be a lot better than the one I paid. ;)
joanne-They can be hard to find, so you might need to do some hunting. But, trust me, they're worth it.
anna-That restaurant sounds delightful. Don't you love when you see the "little old lady" cooking in restaurants? Whether it's the Mexican lady making tortillas, the Italian lady rolling pasta or the Chinese lady tearing pea shoots, you just know you're in for an amazing meal.
misslion-Ah, yes, they're lovely in risotto. Thanks for adding that.
- May 18, 2011 at 5:08 PM
oh yay! I recently had pea shoots as a side salad at a lovely restaurant in Portland. I am excited to see you showcasing them here - I can't wait to try it! Sunday Farmer's Market ~ here I come!
- May 18, 2011 at 6:24 PM
- Amee said...
great tips! i will have to try these! sometimes i like to "let the vegetable speak" and try them first w/ olive oil, salt and pepper first. I do like the imaginary harp music though. I always said if i were to play an instrument it would be a harp...until i learned that it would cost me $1000 to own one.
- May 18, 2011 at 7:22 PM
- Lydia (The Perfect Pantry) said...
A farmer up the road from me sells pea shoots at this time of year. It always feels like such a treat when I manage to snag some from her.
- May 18, 2011 at 7:35 PM
- Susan from Food Blogga said...
joanna-Oh, the Portland farmers' market is wonderful! Have fun!
amee-$1000? Really? I guess I should take that off my birthday wish list then, huh? ;)
lydia-I know what you mean. They just make me feel happy!
- May 19, 2011 at 6:41 AM
- Food Glorious Food! said...
gorgeous recipe with pea shoots... But always have the problem to get really fresh ones... maybe I should try growing them :)
- May 19, 2011 at 7:14 AM
- Donna at Cooking + Praying said...
I just realized how incredibly lucky I am. My local farmers market (Falls Church, VA) has pea shoots nearly every week. They must be growing them in a greenhouse. I love them in a salad with butter lettuce, chopped peaches, and curried viniagrette dressing.
- May 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM
- Goody said...
Did you know they can grow indoors all winter long in a sunny window? Treat them like a cutting lettuce, though eventually they will get too tough, and then you can start anew. You can of course cook the tough ones down and use them to fill ravioli or make a curry, etc.
I have two varieties going outdoors at the moment (we've had a very cool spring which has helped extend the season)and truthfully, the packet I bought for .10 cents at the hardware store is doing better than the heirloom packet that cost near $5.00. Go figure.
- May 19, 2011 at 7:58 PM
- Susan from Food Blogga said...
fgf-I hear ya. Unless you can get them locally grown, you risk aged shoots.
donna-You are one lucky lady! Peaches and curry vinaigrette? Ooh, that sounds lovely. Maybe FGF needs to visit Falls Church!
goody-No, I didn't know that. What a great idea-- economical and delicious. Thanks so much for sharing that with us. I'm sure a lot of readers will take your advice.
- May 20, 2011 at 4:15 AM
- Peggy said...
That salad is beautiful! I'm definitely going to be on the lookout for pea shoots now! =)
- May 20, 2011 at 5:39 AM
Really beautiful pics and post. Can't wait to try some pea shoots now. Wish i could go out to the market NOW! better yet, wish i could grow them! but i'd surely kill them.
- May 20, 2011 at 7:57 AM
- Susan@LunaCafe said...
Very nice, thank you. I will share the link on facebook.com/TheLunaCafe. According to a local farmer, pea shoots will be available in the Northwest in a few weeks.
- May 20, 2011 at 10:53 AM
- Esi said...
I'm so in love with pea shoots now. Thanks for including me in the roundup!
- May 20, 2011 at 12:57 PM
- angela@spinachtiger said...
I just had pea shoots (purchased to garnish fresh pea soup) and they ended up in a salad. I didn't know you could cook them. Love your salad idea.
- May 20, 2011 at 8:52 PM
- Magic of Spice said...
I love pea shoots and pea greens, hoping to find them soon at the markets :)
- May 21, 2011 at 8:11 AM
- Mary W said...
Susan - This is one of my two favorite type of posts in your blog: farmer's market finds and RI Italian food. Different than what I find anywhere else.
As a fellow San Diegian when you find it at a farmer's market, so do I. Sometimes I'm even growin g it in the backyard. :-)
- May 21, 2011 at 10:52 AM
- The Healthy Apple said...
Love pea shoots and really enjoyed reading about this salad recipe...I can't wait to try this!
- May 21, 2011 at 7:10 PM
- Neil Butterfield said...
Looks great.
- May 22, 2011 at 10:53 PM
- Julianna Heiby said...
I'm one of those readers! Goody, thanks for the tip! My peas are just flowering and I was so excited that we'll be eating them soon. I had no idea that we could be eating them NOW! I'm almost as excited by this as I was about our rapini... almost.
- May 23, 2011 at 5:10 AM
- Susan from Food Blogga said...
peggy-Good luck on your hunt!
shef-I hear ya, sista. I kill everything too.
lunacafe-I just came back from Seattle, and I didn't see any. But Idid see lots of ramps and fiddleheads.
esi-My pleasure!
angela-Now you know! Just be sure to cook them lightly. Enjoy!
magicofspice-Good luck!
Mary-How sweet of you! Thank you kindly. And as for the FM finds, I adore them!
healthyapple-Hope you enjoy it!
juliana-Isn't it wonderful how much we can learn from one another? And rapini? Oh, I just love rapini. You're really lucky!
- May 23, 2011 at 8:37 AM
- Rachel said...
I always have some peas growing in my spring garden, and have wondered about using the shoots. Thanks for such an informative post.
Also just wanted to let you know that I just reviewed your wonderful Encyclopedia of Sandwiches on my blog. Great job all the way, but I especially love all the interesting facts and foodie lore in your introduction to the recipes. Made a few sandwich recipes from the book and hubby enjoyed a nice Tofu Reuben on a gluten-free roll and thanks you too for the sandwich inspiration!
- May 23, 2011 at 9:13 AM
- Susan from Food Blogga said...
Rachel- Thanks so much for your kind words. And I love that you made vegetarian versions of classics like the Reuben. It's all about making it work for you! I'm heading over to your blog right now~
- May 24, 2011 at 8:44 AM


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[[Image:Camera-RAW-basic.jpg|thumb|150px|Basic settings]]
[[Image:Camera-RAW-basic.jpg|thumb|150px|Basic settings]]
=== Intro ===
=== Intro ===
Sometimes it'
Sometimes it'not feasible or not recommended to shoot bracketed. Action scenes and large crowds f.e. landscapes in windy weather, where lots of leafs and branches are moving.
This is a small tutorial on how to extract the full [[dynamic range]] of a RAW camera file into a single 16 bit per channel document using Adobe camera RAW (ACR) converter of photoshop CS6 (same engine as Lightroom 5).
This is a small tutorial on how to extract the full [[dynamic range]] of a RAW camera file into a single 16 bit per channel document using Adobe camera RAW (ACR) converter of photoshop CS6 (same engine as Lightroom 5).
Revision as of 00:45, 10 July 2013
RAW dynamic range extraction
Sometimes it's not feasible or not recommended to shoot bracketed. Action scenes and large crowds f.e. or landscapes in windy weather, where lots of leafs and branches are moving.
This is a small tutorial on how to extract the full dynamic range of a RAW camera file into a single 16 bit per channel document using Adobe camera RAW (ACR) converter of photoshop CS6 (same engine as Lightroom 5).
Extracting the whole dynamic range is a snap in recent ACR. No need to fiddle with low contrast anymore, like described in the old article for photoshop CS2. The Highlights, Shadows and other sliders provide tonemapping-like adjustment and recovery of almost all data that is in the RAW file, making virtual bracketing virtually unnecessary.
Shooting for maximum dynamic range implies exposing such that no important highlights are clipped, since this data is lost forever. But it would be best to expose as high as possible in order to pull as much shadow details out of the noise floor as well.
The range of brightness values in relation to the sensor is usually displayed as a histogram. But that is a bit of a problem on most cameras. The histogram display and clipping indicators show the situation for jpegs, not for raw (only some Leicas use raw histograms when shooting raw). Jpeg highlight clipping is 1 or 2 EV lower than raw clipping. If you rely on those, you expose too low and details get lost in shadow noise. In camera inspection of raw images doesn't help either, since the display uses the same clipping as for jpegs.
However, there is help:
- The most recent builds (as of June 2013) of Magic Lantern, a firmware extension for Canon EOS cameras, allows for raw histograms and other exposure helpers for raw shooting (namely raw zebras and ETTR helpers).
- Unitary White Balance (UniWB) is a way to trick the jpeg histogram into showing correct values. See tutorial by Guillermo Luijk.
- UniWB can also be achieved with Magic Lantern stable release v2.3
With raw zebras it is easiest to expose correctly, since all clipped highlights are marked with a zebra pattern. But raw histogram and clipping indicators are of incredible help, too. The result might look overexposed, but this is easily fixed during raw conversion and you will find incredible shadow details in the images.
Choose a linear curve on the Tone Curve tab. All Contrast curves will make highlights and shadows details less distinguishable and worsen clipping.
Choose Process: 2012 from Camera Calibration tab. Older processes introduce much more clipping. Adobe Standard Camera Profile seems to allow for least highlight clipping.
On Basic tab press the O and U key in order to activate Shadow and Highlight clipping warning. The small indicators in the upper corners of the histogram need to show a white border. Clipped highlights are shown as red area in the image, clipped shadows blue.
Now you can start to adjust the Highlights slider. Move it to the left until the indicator in the top right corner turns black. This is the exact point where there will be no highlight clipping any more. You might want to leave specular highlights (or the sun) clipped.
The Shadows slider needs to be moved to the right in order to lighten shadows. If the indicator in the top left corner turns black there is no shadow clipping any more. Colored indicators show which color channel is clipped.
If this is not enough to recover all dynamic range and your highlights are grey to white (f.e. cloudy sky) you can play with the Whites slider. The Blacks slider helps if the Shadows are dark grey to black.
If you want more visible shadow details pull down (left) the Contrast slider. This will give you a dull image, but you have the possibility to do a local contrast enhancement later.
Other settings
Unfortunately some other settings influence the dynamic range, too.
On Basic tab:
- White Balance In recent versions of ACR this doesn't seem to have an influence on dynamic range.
- Clarity can be used to bring back some local contrast, but be aware: it might re-introduce clipping.
- Vibrance doesn't seem to have a big influence on clipping, provided you don't overdo it.
- Saturation Speaks for itself. If you increase saturation you decrease dynamic range because the color channels are saturated earlier.
On Detail tab:
- Sharpening might introduce some clipped highlight pixels since it increases contrast along edges. Better to sharpen the result image after contrast adjustment.
- Noise Reduction settings try to reduce noise. They tend to eliminate single clipped pixels but don't impact over all dynamic range.
On HSL / Grayscale and Split Toning tab:
- Use the settings carefully if you need them.
On Lens Corrections tab:
- Vignetting (Manual sub-tab) This might influences the dynamic range, since it changes pixel brightness in the corners. However, since vignetting normally is a darkening of the image corners you only limit the dynamic range in the corners to the same level as in the image center if you pull the slider up to an appropriate value. If you pull the slider down highlight clipped area gets smaller. Don't think you get higher dynamic range this way. There is simply a certain value subtracted from the pixel values which the clipping indicator does not see as clipped any more. But there is no additional information.
- Remove Chromatic Aberration and Defringe (Profile sub-tab) can (and should) safely be use.
On Effects tab:
- You don't want to use those if you go for maximum dynamic range.
Save Settings
You can save your settings to a preset. However, since dynamic range extraction highly depends from the image content, it's probably better to do it on an individual basis.
Don't forget to switch to 16 bit per channel output and choose TIFF as file format, before you save your images.
How to proceed
What to do now with these files? There are tons of possibilities to enhance the result. You can increase local contrast by simple high radius, low amount unsharp masking or by HDR tonemapping (most tonemappers, including photoshop, work on 16 bit images as well).
It can not be guaranteed that you can extract the very last bit of information from your RAW this way since we don't exactly know what the RAW converter does. However, it could well be that you get even more dynamic range from the converter than your camera actually captured.
How that? Color channels are not all saturated at the same level. If you f.e. use dcraw without the -n option you apparently get less dynamic range than from most other RAW converters. Dcraw clips the colors to the lowest clipped channel. If you use the -n option (and an appropriate -b value) you get anything the camera captured, including a single clipped channel. This might lead to very strange effects. However, ACR and other raw converters don't suffer from this shortcoming.
According to Dave Coffin (author of dcraw) most other RAW converters try to reconstruct the clipped channel from the other channels. This is why f.e. Adobe Camera RAW sometimes seems to deliver more dynamic range than dcraw in 16 bit mode does.


text:
Tag: friendship
Vigilant Editing
Short essays on short poems, written mostly by Adam Sol
Reading Women Since 2013
This writing life
educator, writer, speaker, devoted family man, amateur philosopher, chess enthusiast, basketball junkie, connoisseur of fine hip hop, and purveyor of wit and wisdom
I like best to have one book in my hand, and a stack of others beside me. ~ Dorothy Parker
Arcata is more than just a small college town. It's a community of different people with different stories. These are their stories. This is Arcata.
Me... free, loose, unfettered.
Mastermind Community for Fiction Writers
Books, Writing, & the Law
Global issues, travel, photography & fashion. Drifting across the globe; the world is my oyster, my oyster through a lens.
Books, Books, and Books
A bucket list blog: exploring happiness, growth, and the world.
Five debut authors. Five books. One big dance toward publication.
Gallery of Life...


text:
Only the 4 most recent sermons are visible here, but archived sermons are available on CD or you may ask for a particular sermon - or a few - to be available on the website. Once there they will be available to listen to for a couple of weeks
To borrow earlier sermons or to buy please browse and then select from this list (please note that sermons earlier than 2010 may take us some time to locate and we may not be successful in finding them)
We apologise that the dates are sorted unhelpfully - however, you can change the ordering of the list by clickng on any column headings. (another click reverses that ordering) so, choosing "preacher" will give you the list in preacher order (usually first-name, lastname) so starting with "Andrew": and clicking again will start with "Wade" - please note again that sermons earlier than 2010 may take us some time to locate and we may not be successful in finding them
|Date Given
|Sermon Title
|Bible Ref
|24 May 2020
|James Buchanan
|My Only Son
|Genesis 42
|17 May 2020
|James Buchanan
|Greatest Man Since Noah
|Genesis 41
|10 May 2020
|James Buchanan
|Remember Me
|Genesis 40
|03 May 2020
|James Buchanan
|You'll Never Walk Alone
|Genesis 39


text:
- Υπεύθυνος Επικοινωνίας: Mr. Allen Wang
- Δείτε τα στοιχεία επικοινωνίας
Σύνδεσμος διαστολής χαλκού Bus Bar - κατασκευαστής, εργοστάσιο, προμηθευτής από την Κίνα
Quality analysis of steel bar joints
1. Insufficient welding strength of steel bars. If there is no problem in confirming the quality of steel bars, there are mainly the following reasons; (1) The end face of the welded steel bar is...
What is the specific steel rebar classification?
Reinforcing steel is an indispensable part of building a house. The choice is also very important. There are many classification reinforcement, also called muscle force reinforcement means in...
The price trend of steel rebar
Steel prices continued to rise this week, and it is expected that the market will maintain a volatile pattern. This week, the Myspic steel price index was 186.5, which was a 3.5% increase on a...
Price trend of steel bar
On January 4, the domestic steel market was weak, and the price of building materials fell by a large margin. Among the 25 major cities, the prices of rebar in 23 cities such as Shanghai, Guangzhou,...
- Προϊόντα( 0 )


text:
Our music School is located in Hurstville, providing piano lessons, guitar classes, violin lessons for everyone who loves music.
Kensington guitar lessons, piano teacher Kensington and Kensington music class.
Whether it be a child of three or simply a person who never got the chance to learn an instrument, our school is inspired to teach students from the ground up to achieve high levels of musical proficiency.
We are one of the best music schools in sydney consists of numerous qualified, professional teachers with many years of music teaching experience. We offer different levels of piano lessons in Sydney, violin lessons sydney, guitar lessons and other instrument teachers to suit you.


text:
Jumpsuit SS Nayv
Striped jumpsuit in soft organic cotton with short sleeves and legs. The jumpsuit has press buttons at the shoulder for better comfort when dressing your baby.
100% organic cotton
Washing instructions: Wash max 40, Iron medium, No tumble drying, No dryclean, Do not bleach
Return policy from Australia & New Zealand
We what to make sure that you and your child love the product.
If you regret your purchase, you have the right to return it within 30 days. The goods are to be returned in the same conditioned as when received, with handtag or original packaging. The freight will only be refunded if your purchase on the order is over AUD $200.
In case of incorrect packing, WHEAT Down Under will refund the freight.
Include the receipt from the freight or send a copy to email@example.com. We will then refund the freight to you.
Here's how to complete your return in a few quick steps:
◦On your original packing slip or invoice mark which items you would like to return.
◦Package your return, remembering that your original mailing bag can be used for this return. Please be sure to include all original packaging and tags for the clothing. Any items returned without original tags will not be refunded, product damaged due to production defects except.
◦Affix your Australia Post Return Shipping label to the package. Make sure no other tracking labels are visible.
◦Take the package to your nearest Australia Post outlet or drop box and wait to hear from us.
Once your return is received at our warehouse, it will be processed within 5 business days. You will receive an email from us once your return has been processed. Its thats easy!
For exchanges simply visit the website and place a new order for the items you would like.
If you have any other questions, please email us at email@example.com and we'll walk you through next steps.
We offer 6 months' right of complaint. If the product is damaged due to production defects, we offer to repair the item or replace it. The right of complaint does not include complaints made in relation to wear and tear, wrong use of the product, etc.
We strive to provide the best customer service possible. You are therefore always welcome to contact us at email@example.com if you have any suggestions for improvements.
- Enjoy free shipping all orders over AUD 200 in total. Australia & New Zealand within only
- Delivery Timing with Australia Post / Sendle service. Delivery may be subject to delay as we follow freight terms. We do our very best to deliver your parcel as quickly as possible. If you have any comments or wishes, please contact us: firstname.lastname@example.com
Orders Placed
|Monday - Friday, before 6pm
|Delivery estimate of 3-5 working days commences on the same working day the order is made.
|#Your order will arrive between Monday - Friday.
|Monday - Friday, after 6pm
|Delivery lead-time of 3-5 working days commences on the next working day from when the order is made.
|Saturday and Sunday
|Delivery estimate of 3-5 working days commences on the next working day from when the order is made.


text:
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text:
User talk:Ilostmypie
Pre-Rendered Welcome![edit]
|Member of the Order of Uncyclopedia
This person has successfully registered on Uncyclopedia. They
should be proud of themselves for making such a smart move.
- Hello, Ilostmypie, and welcome to Uncyclopedia! Thanks for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If not, the door's right over there... no, a little more to your left...Not that far, goddammit! ...Yeah. Anyway, here are a few good links for nooblets:
- If you read anything at all, make it the above two links, particularly the second one. If you want to find out more about Uncyclopedia, or need more help with something, try these:
- If you feel like asking someone for help, feel free to ask me on my talk page, in the help forums, or on the Uncyclopedia IRC channel. With the forums and the IRC, keep in mind that the first response of the community is almost always general silliness. We are after all, a silly wiki, run by numerous silly, silly people. When you edit discussion pages, though, make sure you sign your name, using four tildes (~~~~) or the "sign" button (), above the edit box. This'll automatically produce your name and the date, and lets everyone know who the hell you are. Signing will also help you avoid the {{tilde}} template.
- When you write articles, make sure you start with enough on the page so that it's not deletion-quality. If you must create a stub that you plan to expand on in the near future, use a {{WIP}} or {{Construction}} tag to mark it as a work-in-progress. However, if you leave a tagged WIP unedited for a full week, it'll wind up huffed. If the idea of impending deletion doesn't appeal to you, you should like I do, and start pages in userspace, first. This means making a page like User:Ilostmypie/Article about stuff. In userspace just about anything goes(save for the obvious no-nos, like shock pics or other stupidity), and you can build and rework your page(s) at your leisure. Once it's done, just move into mainspace, maybe getting a pee review at some point to get constructive feedback on your article.
- For new users seeking help, the Uncyclopedian Adopt-a-Noob program is there to bring experienced editors straight to you. Simply put {{adoptme}} on your Userpage to join--but you might want to go and actively ask someone from here, or you may not be noticed.
- Lastly, and most importantly, have fun with it! As a comedy wiki, that's kinda what Uncyc is for. Enjoy yourself, and remember to never take anything anyone here says too seriously. We have serious moments, but generally we stay pretty laid back. Also, I'm not a bot. Just 'cause you saw a similar message on a bunch of other users' pages doesn't mean I didn't have to copy and paste this one onto yours with my own meatsack of a finger. Anyways, welcome to the machine! - P.M., WotM, & GUN, Sir Led Balloon (Tick Tock) (Contribs) 19:15, Jun 26


text:
Brenner Children's pediatric emergency department has moved back to its original location. Learn more
In order to help protect patients, family members and health care workers from the spread of COVID-19, no visitors are allowed at any of Wake Forest Baptist Health's outpatient or inpatient facilities, except in certain situations.Learn moreMore COVID-19 Updates
Desiree got out of the whirlpool at the gym and was on her way to the showers when she felt incredibly dizzy. Next thing she knew, she woke up on the locker room floor with her sister looking over her anxiously. She was pretty scared — what happened?
Desiree's sister thought she'd probably fainted. Although Desiree felt like she'd been unconscious for hours, her sister said she was out for less than a minute. Since Desiree felt fine and she'd never fainted before, she decided she didn't need to go to the ER.
When Desiree asked her school nurse about it the next day, she said Desiree probably fainted because she stayed in the whirlpool too long or the temperature was set too high, affecting her blood pressure.
Fainting is pretty common in teens. The good news is that most of the time it's not a sign of something serious.
When someone faints, it's usually because changes in the nervous system and circulatory system cause a temporary drop in the amount of blood reaching the brain. When the blood supply to the brain is decreased, a person loses consciousness and falls over. After lying down, a person's head is at the same level as the heart, which helps restore blood flow to the brain. So the person usually recovers after a minute or two.
Here are some of the reasons why teens faint:
Some medical conditions — like seizures or a rare type of migraine headache — can cause people to seem like they are fainting. But what's happening is not the same thing as fainting and is handled differently.
Some people feel dizzy immediately before they faint. They may also notice changes in vision (such as tunnel vision), a faster heartbeat, sweating, and nausea. Someone who is about to faint may even throw up.
If you think you're going to faint, you may be able to head it off by taking these steps:
If you've only fainted once, it was brief, and the reasons why are obvious (like being in a hot, crowded setting), then there's usually no need to worry about it. But if you have a medical condition or are taking prescription medications, it's a good idea to call your doctor. You should also let your doctor know if you hurt yourself when you fainted (for example, if you banged your head really hard).
If you also have chest pain, palpitations (heart beating fast for no reason), shortness of breath, or seizures, or the fainting occurred during exercise or exertion, talk with your doctor — especially if you've fainted more than once. Frequent fainting may be a sign of a health condition, like a heart problem.
For most teens, fainting is not connected with other health problems, so a doctor will probably not need to do anything beyond examining you and asking a few questions.
If concerned about your fainting, the doctor may order some tests in addition to giving you a physical exam and taking your medical history. Tests depend on what the doctor thinks might be causing the problem. Common tests include an EKG (a type of test for heart problems), a blood sugar test, and sometimes a blood test to make sure a person is not anemic.
If test results show that fainting is a symptom of another problem, such as anemia, the doctor will advise you on treatments for that problem.
If you're with someone who has fainted, try to make sure the person is lying flat, but avoid moving the person if you think he or she might have been injured when falling (moving an injured person can make things worse).
Instead, loosen any tight clothing — such as belts, collars, or ties — to help restore blood flow. Propping the person's feet and lower legs up on a backpack or jacket can also help move blood back toward the brain.
Someone who has fainted will usually recover quickly. Because it's normal to feel a bit weak after fainting, be sure the person stays lying down for a bit. Getting up too quickly may bring on another fainting spell.
Call 911 if someone who has fainted does not regain consciousness after about a minute or is having difficulty breathing.
Reviewed by: Mary L. Gavin, MD
Date reviewed: February 2014
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text:
The White House posted this photo on its Flickr feed yesterday, of President Barack Obama taking a moment to sit on the bus where Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat.
Obama remarked on the moment later that day, at a campaign event in Michigan. (The bus is housed at the Henry Ford Museum in Detroit.)
"I just sat in there for a moment and pondered the courage and tenacity that is part of our very recent history but is also part of that long line of folks who sometimes are nameless, oftentimes didn't make the history books, but who constantly insisted on their dignity, their share of the American dream," he said, according to a White House pool report.


text:
Description: Cocktail or Evening Dress. The mid-length dress has a pink crepe under-dress/slip which is overlaid with a black net sheath embellished with lavish black bead-work in the forms of rose-heads forming a trellis and fan-shapes in the openings of the trellis. The dress is sleeveless, with a high boat neckline. At natural waist is an attached pink satin belt with bow in front. Center back zipper, with section of hooks-and-eyes at upper part. There are two labels in the dress, the Retailer's label "Neiman-Marcus" sewn inside at waist to right of zipper, and maker's label sewn inside near top of under-dress on left of zipper "Made in British Crown / Colony Hong Kong". With accompanying long rectangular pink chiffon scarf. No labels on scarf.
Date: 1950
Item Type: Refine your search to only Physical Object
Partner: UNT College of Visual Arts + Design


text:
Quanta Team Adds Developer, Seeks Support for New App
The Quanta team has been growing in volunteer developers, but the amount of work to make a world class killer application is daunting. Community support has enabled me to take the next step and sponsor another developer! As it happens we also have the opportunity to bring some killer features to our web development suite, but this will require some help from the community to help some additional developers. So while I want to bring some good news to the community I also need to ask for a vote of support too.
Fortunately community support has been good. My thanks to our supporters! I have gone from the sole sponsor of Andras to where I only have to pay a little bit of his monthly income. Andras's full time effort has paid huge dividends to Quanta development as any user who has interacted with us will attest. I'm very excited to announce Michal Rudolf, the author of Knowit, will be joining our team! I hope the community will join me in welcoming him as well as helping me to move him from part time to full time in the coming months. As the attached story points out Özkan Pakdil, the author of Flash 4 Linux, got back to me late. I believe what he has started can be made into a tool for both Flash and SVG and that if it's done right it could be very useful for rounding out the package of an application set that can attract web designers from Windows to KDE. It would add new capabilities for those of us developing web sites on KDE. We want to get community input and do it right, but we also need a vote of financial support to enable these developers to proceed. Have a read and consider becoming a sponsor or making a donation. If you do web development this could affect you.
Eric, how much money is needed to pay a developer?
I guess people in some states can easy make a living out of small money.
A kind of GPL/ASP shareware concept would be very good for kde applications development. I believe KDE shall add a donations link to the info dialogue. Also in the download section a donations hint would be very helpful.
I don't understand why distributors shall request money for packaging the free software while developers shall not be paid by users. As Free Software enters the desktop market the business model has to be adjusted. Not the GPL has to change, today users are not only hackers and potential contributors. The ASP Shareware guidelines (not crippleware, no evaluation time expiration ecc.) are compatible with the free and open source software idea. Early Free Software denounced the shareware principle, but you can provide "shareware" under the gpl with open source. shareware then means simply: When you want to use the software please support development by a small donation.
By Bert at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
I won't give you exact figures in a public forum, just some hints. ;-) Compared to EU states (e.g Finland), a beginner here gets about 1/8 of the average wages for an average programmer from there. After 1-3 years you can reach at the 1/6 part of that money, and if you are in a better position or in a bigger city 1/3 is a good salary. Gettins the same amount as in the EU is possible, although rare. I think 1/2 of that is what you may dream of, but this doesn't happen often. Personally I'd say that I'd need about 1/3 of what you can earn in the EU if I want to live without financial stress. This values should be valid in almost every Eastern European state (including those who will become members of the EU this year) with slight variations.
By Andras Mantia at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> Compared to EU states (e.g Finland), a beginner here gets about 1/8 of the average wages for an average programmer from there
Hmm, being from Finland i probably should point out that this really depends on the region and expertise, with Helsinki and Oulu being the best paid areas. Anyway, designer wages vary from 2000e/month (beginner with university or institute degree) up to 5000e/month (you have to be pretty damn good for this). My bet is that anything higher than that goes to management. This may sound decent, but take into account that we pay from 25-40% income tax, so..
By jmk at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
By Andras Mantia at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
And you don't think within the US we have to pay over 30% of our wages to taxes?
By Marc J. Driftmeyer at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Hello.. i'm From Romania. The sallary a designer / developer /soft writer / whatever gets .. is from 75euro / 300-400euro /month .. and the tax is about 25-40% of this.. the rents are 1/2 .. u barely survive.. many of us .. like me even work for free.. (i'm still in college and living with my father)
By Micky Socaci at Wed, 2004/03/31 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> I believe KDE shall add a donations link to the info dialogue.
There is already a link to the "Supporting KDE" page in "Help/About KDE".
Re: hmmm
A very good page, but hardly known.
By Bert at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
By Source at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Andras has given a good answer with a lot of detail. I will say this. It varies per developer. It initially depends largely on what it costs where they live and what starting wages are where they live. Where as this would be thousands of dollars per month in the US or Western Europe we are constrained to look for developers who live in areas where monthly incomes are in the hundreds of (US) dollars per month. It is even easier when starting a developer to start them part time. There is less stress over their performance while they are becoming familiar and less stress of what they are being paid. This can be only a few hundred dollars a month for a part time developer.
My thinking with Michal was that we needed to add someone with his talent who could put in a lot of time. In previous discussions Quanta was somewhere on his do list where life becomes so perfect you can finally do those things you wanted. In the case of Andras I have paid thousands of dollars, but now with many more users and developers I'm also working at least 20-30 hours a week on Quanta in some way. In that wonderful world where everything is perfect I should get a few hundred dollars a month to do nice things for myself and stay fresh. What I have concluded for the real world is that I have to limit how large a part of my income I use to sponsor developers. This is because my business is in a place that it could (and should) grow quite a bit this year. If I go from making an average income to a well above average income I can do a lot more fun things with more money. If I run into a cash flow problem because I spent too much on my pet project... you get the idea.
The great thing is that with our user base, those users who are moved to take action can make a difference very easily. My personal estimation is that we have over a million users, probably closer to two million. The amount to contribute should be small if percentage participation is small, but participation is a fraction of a percent. It's Sunday morning here and so far we have a 25$ EU and $25 US a month sponsor (both from Europe BTW). This is great! I'm excited to see this kind of commitment because it removes stress from my life. To sponsor one developer part time it takes about 4-6 times the amount of support we have received so far from these fine people. In Michal's case I have guaranteed I will make up the difference. In the case of Özkan and his partner I heard back from him yesterday that he will try to do whatever he can with F4L regardless of whether I can pay him. That's the right answer and allows me some flexibility.
At this point I'm pretty comfortable to relax and see what happens. Good things are happening no matter what. Like Andras, I don't like to make other people's finances overly public, unless they tell me to. I see my duty to this project and our contributors as making sure that we are getting good results and direction. Because I only bring in people who are led by their passion to work on the project we get great results. After four years of working with this project my goal is to continue to question everything I do and look for ways to improve. So I hope these efforts right now produce exciting results in the coming months for our users.
By Eric Laffoon at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Could you use KDE e.V to take donations and give salaries? It would seem within the purpose of KDE e.V. to do so. Its not uncommon to see non-profits where the donator gets to pick where they want their money to go, it could be that sort of thing.
By Ian Monroe at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
It isn't KDE e.V.'s goal to hire developers. In this aspect it's very different from the Mozilla and Blender Foundations.
Re: hmmm
No, the role of the KDE e.V. is to support the KDE project as whole (and I'm not even sure that it would be legal for a non-profit organization to pay salaries for developers). Better spend the money donated to them to organize conferences, promote KDE, etc. so everyone will and can enjoy the donations, not only some particular developers.
By Andras Mantia at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Maybe Eric is a good station to support developers. His business runs for supporting KDE ;) If KDE eV couldn't hire developers is OK.
By Uwe Ristok at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
If Eric were a millionaire he'd have them all over for a party too. ;-) I admit that I've given this some thought and even thought about how to manage certain aspects of it. It's something I'd like to be able to do. It's not really such an easy thing to do because you have to balance the spirit of OSS development with financial aspects. It requires certain skills and practices and I have learned a lot in the last four years. I think I have a good aptitude for it.
The reality is though that there are a number of things that would need to come into place to move it to a larger scale. I'd enjoy the challenge. I talked about it in a recent interview. I would need to have excellent financial standing because having a number of people involved eats time like you can't believe. Ironically I'd want to get someone who was not just skilled at coding but also skilled at project management and interaction to help.
Moving into working on other programs you have the further complication of interacting with a project and respecting their leadership. Because I have an active mind I contemplate how these things might work. Perhaps part of what attracts me to it is that it is so challenging. I'm not into being bored. ;-)
I would certainly love to have an even larger impact on KDE application software, but everything I do is gradually one step at a time. Sometimes I have to remind myself that there are some things still beyond my reach. New things have to be to the standard of what we're doing right now and not take away from the other things we're doing. Things are only worth doing if they can be done with excellence.
We will see how it goes. For now I'm very happy that we are making the progress we are. It means a lot for me that I'm able to do what we're doing now for users and developers. It's hard to put into words. I just want to produce software now that makes people say "WOW!" ;-)
By Eric Laffoon at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Well, dealing with such donations via KDE e.V. (or some similar entity) would still be good idea. If this e.V. was "gemeinnützig" (don´t know a good english translation), and I think it is - free software for everyone and stuff -, it would be possible to use such donations to reduce your taxes - I do a lot of stuff for such non-profit organizations fot that reason (it´s one, but not the only reason)... ;-)
By Willie Sippel at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> If this e.V. was "gemeinnützig" (don´t know a good english translation), and I think it is
Non-profit. And it's not yet.
Re: hmmm
>> If this e.V. was "gemeinnützig"
> Non-profit. And it's not yet.
According to http://www.kde.org/areas/kde-ev/ it is:
"KDE e. V. is a registered non-profit organization that represents the KDE Project in legal and financial matters."
By cm at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
It's of course non-profit but not yet accepted as such by the financial authorities.
Re: hmmm
Are you also talking about German financial authorities?
I thought they *were* accepted there:
3. Non-profit status of the association
By cm at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> Are you also talking about German financial authorities?
Sure. Only the place where the association is registered matters.
> I thought they *were* accepted there:
Pursuance of one side is not equal with acceptance of the other side.
By Anonymous at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
You cannot register an association in Germany without a statute.
How can the KDE e.V. be registered if its statute states false things?
IANAL, though, and of course something I stated may be wrong...
By cm at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> AFAIK *before* you register an association in Germany that's supposed to be non-profit you have to consult the financial authorities or you cannot register it with that statute.
You're wrong, and statutes can be changed. KDE e.V.'s initial statutes didn't met the requirements of the financial authorities so there were consultations with them what has to be changed and the statutes were voted in Nove Hrady. Sadly they're not active yet.
> How can the KDE e.V. be registered if its statute states false things?
Registration at court and acceptance by financial authorities are two different processes as they're two different entities.
By Anonymous at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> KDE e.V.'s initial statutes didn't met the requirements of the financial
Ah ok.
> Registration at court and acceptance by financial authorities are two
Yes, of course, but I would still have expected the court to reject the
Fscking legal stuff...
By cm at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
> Fscking legal stuff...
Exactly! I don't know all the German statutes (though I believe the e.V. complies), but here in the US it's none too simple either. That's why it is expensive and complicated to set up. In partial justification, governments do need to make it's not easy to set up "the church of drinking beer" by mail and open a tax exempt bar in your garage. ;-)
By Eric Laffoon at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
The problem with this type of set up is that it really requires someone with a lot of money that really loves what they're doing. So far mostly I'm just love. ;-)
There are thousands of dollars in legal fees to set up the structure and then the administrative costs. There's a real cost in time to pursue the funds and then when it comes to working with developers...
Everyone I work with on a sponsorship basis I have to first get to know over email, discuss how we see things, our thoughts, our passion for what we're doing... There are issues not only with skills but with how people work. You have to know that someone will work on this because they really truly love doing it because you can't look over their shoulder. There there is the interaction on what needs done, the actual oversight of the project laying out task priorities and answering numerous questions on particulars.
The process that I go through has evolved over the years and it takes a lot of time as well as knowledge of the program and communication skills. It's not just finding someone and sending them some money and getting some software.
I really want to do something like this but doing it well is more challenging than I think people realize. It would be possible to find someone who you just send money on to work on a piece of software, but to make something larger in a project you have a lot more issues and you have interactions. Maybe I'm a control freak but I don't like leaving aspects of things to chance that can make or break a project or release, especially if I'm using money from contributors. That's a major incentive to not screw up.
Anyway my thinking is that I'm not sure how many people I'd trust to do something like this on any scale. I probably could, but I'd need to have excellent financial positioning because if I wasn't drawing a salary it might be difficult if I didn't have time to work. I classify myself as a person who enjoys risk that he can structure to high probability favorable circumstances. I'm risk averse where those risks remove my control or cause things to blow up if they don't go perfect. My paranoia is hard earned and serves me well. Also my business is backwards of most jobs. my schedule is flexible during the week and I leave the house to work on weekends. If I had a regular job I'd get fired for the time I spend on Quanta. Probably sooner actually. I haven't had a job for 15 years... I don't like them. At my worst I'm still my best boss ever. ;-)
My thinking is that there is no way I can look at expanding what I do too fast. Having said that the eventual possibility that I may be able to expand what I've been doing with Quanta seems like a logical progression. It still requires a lot of problems to be solved. Paradoxically a large enough amount of user support would necessitate moving in that direction faster. ;-)
The fact remains that no matter how grand our plans we have to look at things day by day and make good decisions. I'm personally happy to take my time, not burn out and not risk personal financial disaster by trying to do too much more than I can at a particular time.
By Eric Laffoon at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
All I was suggesting was using KDE e.V. as place to donate money for quanta developers. In other words, what is happening now with the benefit of non-profit status. Though I would imagine a lot of that benefit would be lost if its only registered in Germany. And sure its legal for non-profits to pay employees, they do it all the time. Non-profit means you don't have a profit, not that your working for free.
Supporting developers doesn't seem out of its scope, even if this isn't what they do now.
By Ian Monroe at Tue, 2004/03/30 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Sponsoring developers is outside the scope of KDE e.V. They do other very useful things.
Sponsoring developers is a de facto endorsement of the developer and project. This means that if you're going to do it centrally you need come up with a "fair" distribution which is a recipe for a lot of wrangling (instead of coding) by developers. All of this is rather silly because a user can in fact choose which projects they want to support. To top it all off, last year the e.V. raised about enough money to sponsor one developer, but they used money for other things that were needed.
What you're asking for adds up to too many real problems. If all you're talking is having a non profit foundation for funding development, when the numbers work out I'm happy to do that and to pursue larger contributors. I'm also one of the largest sponsors in KDE. If what you want is a non profit channeling funds into KDE development our project is probably the most likely to evolve into that.
By Eric Laffoon at Wed, 2004/03/31 - 6:00am
Re: hmmm
Just another insight: a year ago when I was still in Indonesia, I'd be glad to hack day and night if only somebody sponsors me as low as few hundreds dollar. That was supposed to be quite enough to pay the rent and enjoy the living. So, might be good idea to head to southeast asia :-p
By Ariya at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
KDE Only DIstros steep UP
The KDE only distros like Lycoris and Xandros need to step up to the plate. I'm not aware of any projects that these distros sponsor. Lindows already is sponsoring other projects plus working on somthing in house.
By Kraig at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: KDE Only DIstros steep UP
> Lindows already is [..] plus working on somthing in house.
And what? :-)
Re: KDE Only DIstros steep UP
They took Mozilla Composer, changed the skin, and call it NVU.
By PI,14 at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: KDE Only DIstros steep UP
No, I'm talking about KDE applications. See http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5758&page=4 question 9.
Re: KDE Only DIstros steep UP
Look at the Kevin Interview on OSNEWS. This is his quote, "We are also working on some great KDE applications in house, which are open sourced and that we'll be sharing with the world when LindowsOS 5.0 comes out. Linux needs more and better applications to succeed. That is the area we are spending most of our time, energy and dollars right now."
By Kraig at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: KDE Only DIstros steep UP
Well actually they hired the composer developer to work on it full time.
By Kraig at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Another Idea: Shop-an-Improvement
Re: Another Idea: Shop-an-Improvement
And for all those annoyed by KMail's synchonious filtering blocking KMail when mail is comming in, don't forget to pledge a donation to fix bug 41514 on http://www.kontact.org/shopping/sanders.php !
By André Somers at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Re: Another Idea: Shop-an-Improvement
Seems like it would be fixed in 20 weeks anyway which would be before for the KDE 3.3 release.
Quanta must support what-you-see-is-what-you-get
Quanta is a good application and it can become a great application if it supports WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) like KWORD does, but Quanta is advanced hence it can help web development for the newbies...
My favorite applications in KDE:
1. KWord
Thanks to all KDE Developers... I appreciate your endeavor and creativity. You people are more "Artists" than just mere programmers! Hats off! to you!!!
By yash kumar jain at Sun, 2004/03/28 - 6:00am
Quanta already does...
...you ought to update to KDE 3.2.x before asking for something which is there already.
By Datschge at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
Well, I was expecting great things of Quanta after hearing so much about it. I am running the version that comes packaged with Mandrake 10 Community Released. The about box says that it is Quanta 3.2.1
To cut a long story short, I have a page that is valid XHTML and CSS2 and Quanta chocked on it.
I have also had it crash so often that I have gone back to doing things by hand because there just isn't any real time saving when you have to worry about things crashing every other minute.
Here's to hoping things improve.
This may seem like a very negative post, so let me say that I love what Quanta is trying to achieve and I have confidence that it will eventually get there, but it would need about 5-10 developers working on it full time to do so within the next two years.
By Joe Scicluna at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
> To cut a long story short, I have a page that is valid XHTML and CSS2 and
I have no idea what "chocked" means for you, but if you don't file a bugreport, we can't fix bugs.
> I have also had it crash so often that I have gone back to doing things by
In short: http://bugs.kde.org for all those having problems.
By Andras Mantia at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
This is really fun. Now let's get real. Open that version of Quanta, go to the help menu and pull up the about dialog. Now read the version. It will give you a release date from CVS.
Quanta 3.2.1 (Using KDE 3.2 Branch >=20040204)
I'm sorry, but if you're basing an evaluation of Quanta on this then that is really sad because it's total bull flop! Either you were unclear that Mandrake was releasing a CVS build was or they didn't explain it well. Let me explain. We released 3.2 in January and found that there was a problem with parsing certain structures in PHP that did not show up in our tests prior to release. We had to completely restructure the parser in the HEAD branch and intermittently update the 3.2 branch as we went. The entire project was very unstable until the last week before release right around the first of March.
Now if you're willing to make an evaluation based on the 3.2.1 *RELEASE* fine. Otherwise I gotta tell you it frankly pisses me off te read that Quanta is unstable. Because I respect the Dot I won't ask for everyone with a stable release to post. Read the link above on the words "huge dividends". It shows what an exceptional record we have dealing with bugs. Our releases are VERY stable.
You're posting here that we have a problem and I don't even have to ask if you filed a bug report because if you did Andras would have already gotten back with you and you would be either building from source or getting a 3.2.1 RPM. You certainly wouldn't be running a badly broken CVS build.
Whatever happened to the simple rule that if you want stable software don't run a development version? I can't believe I'm getting my chops busted over this. If Mandrake can't get people to understand they're delivering CVS software they should stop the practice! I get tired of people thinking the worst of our software because of packaging decisions!
Good practices dictate that distributions release stable release software and users report bugs. Had either of these practices been followed you would not be telling the same story here. Sadly neither were and we look bad because of it.
By Eric Laffoon at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
I am sorry to sound harsh to you, but as the maintainer of Quanta, it is your responsability to make distributors behave respectfully. The GPL allows Mandrake to create derivative of Quanta 3.2cvs, but not to call them Quanta 3.2.1...
So you should not direct your anger at a user that is complaining about what has been presented to him as quanta 3.2.1. You should (actually you have to) send an official letter to Mandrake, asking them to stop using the trademark Quanta for one of their products (a buggy derivative of Quanta).
By oliv at Wed, 2004/03/31 - 6:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
being a user of quanta 3.2.0 I'd have to agree.
By illogic-al at Tue, 2004/04/06 - 5:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
I use Quanta 3.2.1 on KDE 3.2.1, and it is still somewhat unstable. Chrashes tend to happen at random so i have been unable to provide decent bug reports.
By theboywho at Tue, 2004/04/13 - 5:00am
Still some Mandrake pain
Yep I've been experiencing issues for a year now, and now I'm on Quanta post-3.2.3 using KDE 3.2.3 and it locks up in a pretty random fashion. Some days it'll run beautifully others it will seize up pretty quickly. I've tried to figure some rhyme or reason but to no avail. Happens on all sizes of files, pressing all sorts of keys.
I don't get the debug option with these crashes either. I'm curious if its somehow due to issues on the network share where the files live? I'm going to run a while without the autosaving a backup and see if I can't get some more info.
I've been doing HTML since Mosaic Alpha 8 :-) and truly love Quanta. Other than these issues, (which may be due to being a somewhat linux dektop novice) it's a near perfectly constructed tool.
By barnamos at Tue, 2005/01/18 - 6:00am
Re: Quanta already does...
Hey Datschge, he just said we went from good to great. He just didn't know he said it. Now we have to find a way to get to all these people's houses and install the new versions for them so that they know it. ;-)
By Eric Laffoon at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
I think this is not a good way to go, i once talked to a developer at a exhibition from Xfree86 about a cool feature and he say they said " yeah nice but i only implement it if you pay me ". This attitude really sucks and brought Xfree86 down.
By chris at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am
Re: attitude
Well that's not my attitude, Andras' attitude, Michal's attitude or Özkan's attitude. Could it be that you either didn't read it, jumped to conclusions or just don't really know much about us? Let's look at the facts...
1) I started sponsoring development with Dmitry and Alex in 2000. They needed to move our of the hostel they were living in and into a house with a phone line for an internet connection. They were almost out of college and it's hard to contribute when you have to put it on a floppy and borrow a friends connection.
Each of the people developing under sponsorhip or hoping to be sponsored with our project loves what they're doing. Özkan produced an alpha of his program already, Andras released Kallery and Michal released Knowit.
* Nobody here is saying they won't work on this unless paid, unless it is just not feasible for them to do so.
What this has done for Quanta is gotten us noticed, like our recent LinuxQuestions.org user choice award. It also got us one of the lowest counts for open bugs of KDE applications as well as a turn around time for user support that is often in the minutes. One contributor made a feature request that was filled in 3 hours in CVS!
What actually has been the downfall of XFree86 is a number of unrelated but different issues including their license and looking for recognition. We don't in any way resemble XFree86 at all!
Maybe what really sucks is the idea of financially supporting a project that does a good job? Note that I NEVER try to make people feel guilty as a motivation to contribute nor do I ever beg. I detest both and I respect our users too much. I don't even like asking for money, but at some times I think it is too important not to.
I'm not personally offended by what you said, but I think I proved that you don't have a solid perspective here. Everyone here knows who I am. If I've messed up go ahead and point it out, but if you're going to do so you had better have your facts straight. People are contributing money to our project and it's EXTREMELY important to me that I do the right thing by them. As far as attitude goes, it is difficult to ascertain sometimes without some study. I think it's reasoable to assume, based on what we've done, that ours is okay. How's yours? ;-)
By Eric Laffoon at Mon, 2004/03/29 - 6:00am


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Slovenia Ipko all codes
Syria all codes
Belarus Mobile all codes
Tanzania Mobile all codes
Tanzania Mobile all codes
Cuba Mobile all codes
Philippine Mobile all
Georgia Mobile all codes
Bolivia Mobile all codes
Guatemala all codes
Tunisia All codes
Ecuador 593 all codes
Maldives all codes
Mongolia all codes
Nicaragua all codes
Albania Mobile all codes
Kenya Mobile Safaricom & Airtel
Lebanon Mobile all codes
Somalia all codes
Turkmenistan all Codes
Benin Mobile all codes
Nicaragua Mobile all codes
Ghana Mobile MTN Only
Uganda Mobile all codes
Mali Mobile all codes
Zimbabwe all Codes
Sudan Mobile all codes
Jamaica Mobile 2519 all codes
Ethiopia Mobile all codes
Morocco Mobile all codes
Please share your offer rate if you cover any of these destinations or you can also offer us your any direct route. We have wholesale live traffic for A-Z destination.
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Larry Goodwin
E-mail: email@example.com
Skype: live:goodwin.qberry
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