text:
carlon Bethel College St. Paul. Minnesota September 27. 1974 Malachi 4:2
F.or the inside, st.o·ry o·n separate gradu'ations, see pages two and three
/,. ~)
We'll share it all,
except graduation
Though "Bethel College and Seminary" is technically considered
one institution (under one name and one budget),
the two schools function largely as two institutions, whose
concerns are mutually exclusive of one another. The College
educates Christians to minister to men in one of many
fields of service; the Seminary educates Christians to minister
to men as members of the clergy. In the recent past,
the only time the two bodies have come together is for the
purposes of commencement exercises. It is our opinion that
other more creative ways of "coming together" for the Collage
and Seminary can and must be sought.
With the significant increase in College enrollment in
past years, the recitation of names of Seminary senior class
members has become merely an annoying prelude to the
graduation of the College senior class. One speaker has had
to serve the wants and needs of both classes for commencement.
One crowded gym has had to hold the family and
friends of both College and Seminary grads. Parking for this
biggest-of-all-events has become a problem. The calendars'
of the College and Seminary ha ve not even been synchronized
to the point at which both schools end classes at
the same time: this year it is revealed that College
classes end May 23, with commencement for "Bethel College
and Seminary" slated for May 25, while Seminary classes
end one week later on May 30.
There may well be other points of cooperation between
the College and Seminary which could be mutually beneficial
to both. We can see the obvious advantage to sharing
library facilities, or teachers, or classes, for example. But
the needs of "Bethel CoUege and Seminary" are no longer
served by having a single commencement service for both
schools. If two separate services were to be held, we feel they
could each be made both more meaningful and more practicable
to the graduating classes.
We urge the task force, assigned by the Board of Regents
last spring to look into the matter of separate commencements,
to strongly recommend that the Board of Regents
take action on this issue in its December meeting. We
urge the Board of Regents to strongly endorse the organization
of separate commencement services for the College
and Seminary.
In the coming months, the Clarion will attempt to lead
the way in finding "more creative" ways of benefiting from
the relationship between the College and Seminary. We will
report items of news and significance on that campus to
the College student body, and will hope that "over the hill"
students will show some reciprocal interest in events on this
Editor's note: The Student Association has announced
that senators-elect for the '74-'75 year will take
'office November 1, not in October as previously announced
in the CLARION.
[here we stand 1
by Bob Moeller and Steve Harris
It is the fall of 1974, an anxious time for us in America.
We are faced with shortages, both physical and moral, and
with inflation, both of prices and discontent. It is a time
when major social problems rear their ugly heads - seemingly
unstoppable. And it is a time of growing concern; true
whether you live in downtown New York City or in the secluded
suburbs of Arden Hills.
But when the need to face these problems is discussed,
perhaps our largest problem emerges. Basically it is this:
we have become a nation of inactive complainers. We angrily
condemn our government for its failures to solve social problems,
while at the same time we sit back and do nothing,
seemingly paralyzed with apathy.
Granted, there are many things in this country to "complain"
about. Millions of tax dollars continue to pour into such
places as South Vietnam and Chile (for covert purposes)
while our economy weakens. And administration official states
that "the people hardest hit by inflation are Wall Street
brokers," while at the same time people dependent on Social
Security and welfare watch their meager budgets dwindle
away by the cost of living. Young men, many stirred by
their moral convictions, refuse to kill in an unjust war and
are sentenced to two years of modified arrest; at the same
time elected leaders, coerced by their lack of morals, are
driven from office only to enjoy tax-supported benefits, free
from prosecution.
Yes, there are many things wrong in this country. As
the examples show, poverty, insensitivity, and injustice are
wide-spread. But the point to remember is this: if we only
complain about these problems, they will continue. The men
we have entrusted with national leadership are not supermen,
as the past two years have clearly shown. If we expect
them to overcome these problems by themselves, we , will,
only be disappointed time and time again.
Donna Cord, a Chicago housewife writing in Newsweeek
last February, puts it well. "The one thing that I have an
abundance of at this point in time is anger. Anger and disgust.
Not with my country. The 'United States is blessed
(in theory at least) with all the institutions to make it work
continued on page three
e carlon Published weekly by the students of Bethel College
Judy Harrington editor
Pamela Schultz copy editor
Steven Harris news editor
Curtis Kregness production editor
photography editor
business manager
Letters to the editor should be
sent to the Clarion, P.O. 91.,
by the Monday preceding
Volume 50, No.3
Separate graduations decision
hangs over. Board of Regents ·
by Bill Trollinger
' and
Mark Troxel
One of the greatest sources of discontent
between the students and the Administration
in the past two years has
been the issue of separate graduations.
As stated in the March 29, 1974 Bethel
Clarion, "Despite the trenchant force of
opinion of seven Bethel groups (the College
senior class by a vote of 136 to
6, the College Student Senate, the College
faculty, the Seminary Seniors, the
Seminary Senate, the Seminary Faculty,
and the Joint Committee on Convocation
and Commencement), separate commencement
exercises were, for lack of positive
action, in effect denied."
In response to the strong sentiment
voiced in favor of separate graduations,
President Carl Lundquist, in a statement
to the Board of Regents, proposed the
formation of a "task force" to examine_
"the relationship of the College to the
Seminary. "
What is the purpose of this "task
force?" According to Maurice Lawson,
campus pastor and "task force" member,
"To find out what areas we (College
and Seminary) are'strengthened together,
and in what areas we are handicapped
together." Board of Regents Chairman,
arid also a "task force" member, Rev.
John Anderson, said "The task force's
purpose is to · layout the tensions between
the College and the Seminary and
to resolve the problems."
What has been done within the "'task
'force?" Anderson explained, "It has been
discovered that the question is far more
complex than previously thought. It is
more than just separate commencement
exercises and yet the task force does
lean towards separate graduations."
Student Association President, and
"task force" member Marshall Shelley
commented, "We have mainly been in
discussion. One thing seems clear: it
~s almost a foregone conclusion that this
task force will propose separate graduations."
The tone of these two statements is
different, but tbe implication is clear:
Here We Stand, continued from page two
FOR THE PEOPLE. I am angry with you, and you, and me.
All of us. We have become a nation of sheep .... "
The point is, we need to recapture that spirit, that sense
of activism which made this country unique. We need to
get off our collective back-end and throw ourselves (you, and
you, and me) into the solving of these problems. If we expect
answers, that is what we will have to do.
it is probable that when the "task force"
submits its final report on November
15, separate graduations will be included
in the recommendations. However, ,even
if the "task force" makes this recom·
mendation, there is question whether this
proposal will provide the impetus needed
for the inception of separate commen·
cement exercises.
What could possibly block this action
if the presidential "task force" joins
in the chorus of interested groups clamoring
for separate graduation? Shelley remarked,
"It all hinges upon the Board
of Regents meeting in December."
A little light was shed on past history
when Regent member Charles Manson
said, "Two years ago, separate graduation
was defeated by only one vote
in the Board of Regents."
It is two years later, seven important
College and Seminary groups have pushed
for separate graduation, and now
it seems apparent that the presidential
"task force" will also make the same
recommendation. We anxiously await the
December Board of Regents meeting.
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Nice ideals, you say, but how does it work? Basically, Tuesdays 5-12
that spirit will be captured by our INVOLVEMENT. Involvement
in our political process, our social agencies, our religious
institutions. Especially Ahe latter. It is time for
Christian citizens in this country to get involved in fighting
the social problems that they are a part of as much as
anyone else. The opportunities are only as limited as our
creativity. Join a volunteer agency to help- the disadvantaged,
get to work in the November elections with candidates
whom you feel will truly represent your feelings,
take the time to voice your opinion, and suggestions,' to your
city council; and on and on.
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We as college students perhaps don't have the resources
to get involved to a great extent, at least not now. But
looking at it in perspective, we will in a very short time
leave this place and enter the "real" world. Will we enter
it as another generation of complainers? Or will we actively
join our leaders and face our problems. The choice, and the
future, is ours.
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'7 4 Bethel grad
fe'ochels biolo,gy
here this yeor
by Rhonda Dye
"I'm really thankful for this year, it
is a gift from God," commented the
pewest member of Bethel's biology department.
Last spring, Debbie Van Loon, along
with the other members of the '74 Bethel
graduating class, wondered what was
ahead of her. At that time her plans
for the immediate future were unsettled.
"I was wondering about my life and
where God wanted me to go from where
I was," continued Debbie.
In late June she received a telephone
call from a faculty member, asking her
to consider a teaching position for the
coming fall term.
"I was shocked! How could I possibly
do that, I wondered. I felt so inexperienced.
But, after I thought more about
it, I became excited," she said.
Debbie Van Loon
At first, she was somewhat concerned
about the transition from student to teacher.
She wasn't sure how her former
classmates would react to her new role.
"The students have been great. They've
accepted me very well. It was so encouraging
to r emove that uncertainty."
Debbie notes, the differences in her
life as a student and the position that
she is in now.
"The class preparation is very different.
As a student I followed a directed
course of study. Now as the teacher,
I am dir ecting a course."
She has been busy with preparing class
periods, lectures, labs, and academic
counseling. But the aspect she most enjoys
about her new job is the personal
contact that she has been able to make
with her students.
She commented on a girl who had
come to her for some help. "It was
so exciting to _ talk with her. She has
never before studied biology, everything
was so new to her. It was refreshing
just to see her enthusiasm for learning."
After Debbie completes her time at
Bethel, she plans to attend graduate
sch~l in preparation for a permanent
position as a teacher on the college
'Bethel Si ngers'
safely dead
by Laura Aiden
Last spring, the Bethel Music Department
proposed a significant change for
its fall curriculum. Instead of the traditional
College Choir, Women's Choir,
and Male Chorus, a non-touring (SATB)
chapel choir, the "Bethel Singers" was
to combine the two segregated groups.
According to Dr. Julius Whittinger,
head of the department, the plan was
conceived to e.1iminate two -basic problems.
First, the balance of the Festival
Choir was being threatened because of
an overabundance of women's voices.
The two-choir proposal would produce
a near-equal number of male and female
voices for Festival. Secondly, said Whittinger,
"Music pric ~s and bus costs
have skyrocketed, and Bethel simply cannot
afford to send out four touring groups
a year, namely the three choirs and
the Bethel Band." The new plan would
reduce the number of major touring
groups to two, and enable the Bethel
singers to do local concerts as well
as chapel work.
However, the program was met with
opposition from many different sides.
'Cal~ary Baptist Church
2120 No. Lexington, Roseville
We invite' Y.OU to come
shia,re in our wor~hip.
Hear Jim Bragg in the
College CIH'ss
Bus leaves N.C. 9:30
Car leave1s O.C. 9:30
The. music faculty received letters from
supporters across the nation, indicating
how much they appreciated the three
Bethel Choirs. The local churches offered
their continued moral and financial support
to the choirs. The Bethel student
body drew up petitions, wrote letters,
and -complained to the dean and faculty.
"We've had many requests for continuance
from the local churches and" the
kids showed they wanted these groups.
There ' was enough interest to keep it
going," said Whittinger.
So, the department decided to maintain
the present curriculum of College Choir,
Women's Choir, and Male Chorus. Said
Dr. Whittinger, "We'll have to operate
on a more austere budget, but there
is no doubt that 'the local churches support
us, as each group has the privilege
of doing five local concerts. The ministry
has been very fine and I am sure
it will continue to be so."
Cast list releas,ed
for IAnne Frankl
The cast list for the fall play, The
Diary of Anne Frank, is out: All of
the actors, except Kerry Olson and Jack
Starr, are putting in their first appear-
- ance in a major play at Bethel.
Mr. Frank
Mrs. Van Daan
Mr. Van Daan
Peter Van Daan
Mrs. Frank
Margot Frank
Anne Frank
Mr. Kraler
Mr. Dussel
)Bruce Bohne
Barbara Bacon
Kerry Olson
Al Arasim
))a ve Johnson
Carol Anderson
J anell Beckman
Mary Kershaw
Dan Erickson
Jack Starr
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' How many of YDU grew up in Qr have had c'Ontacts
with churches or groups that frown at Sunday smiles and
lODk down upon ~aughter at Bible studies? The same mighty
warrior King David, who cried tears of repentence also
danced with joy and sung with laughter in the presence of
the Lord. He was commended by God for this. And I use
this example not tD encourage indiscretion, but to demonstrate
the freedom we have to express joy.
Is it true that our 'multi-cultural modern America doesn't
allow for a seperateness 'Of activity on the Sabbath? Do we
even need a seperateness of activity in the ' external sense?
For ~ure we' worship God daily in Spirit and truth ' but
what about Sabbath activity in particular? Well, nurses and
dDctors are needed on Sundays in America and I suppose
communication and transportation services to reach loved
ones on the Sabbath? It is good to do so. Then there are
Sunday restaurant get-togethers. AlsD fDr preachers who do
their jobs, Sunday is hardly a day of rest. I am reminded
that some godly pro football players hit pay dirt on any Sunday.
, But surely these fDlk do put aside time to honor the
Lord. Some people need to work and work hard to provide
a joyful and restful Sabbath fDr the majority.
For we' students who love so much to study, I propose
that we tear ourselves away from the books as much
as possible for the Lord's day. ,Holiness (or seperateness)
is too often practiced in the external sense only. But I would
think if our outward circumstances were different on Sunday
then our inward attitude of worship would be enhanced and
encouraged. Wonder how many of us believe that if we work
hard to have studies finished and reserve Sunday for Him
that He'll bless us? Or maybe we just think it a small thing
to give 'Our time to study on His day. Do you? One may
say, "but study IS the Lord's work." And so it is, so can
any vocation be. Study and learning IS our vocation at this
point in time. But shouldn't we busy ourselves with "ATTENDING
BREAD"? Folk~ with other vocations can do the same. Can't
The Lord sees our ceaseless activities, many of which
are necessary. He also knows that in our culture Sunday
is the day most believers gather for communion, singing,
all the forms of worship and fellowship. Sunday is the day
men He has called will teach and preach the sanctifying
WORD. What do we do with our Sundays? Not that external
activities are inherently good. Too many folk work
themselves iI1:.to a fury of "Church work" and feel so Holy
about their exhaustion at the end of a day in which they
hardly gave a thought to their Lord~ Then again I say
we should see that certain atmospheres and conditions will
enhance fellowship and worship.
The "LORD OF THE SABBATH" lives within us. Won't
we let this Lordship be demonstrated in our attitudes and actions?"
Randy Headley
Interim students travel
to London, Ethiopia
• by Gaylene Jones
"Getting inside the heads of others" is the aim of two
Interim courses offered by Bethel tpis January, 1975. These
courses are a tour group to London, conducted by Bethel's
Professor of History, James Johnson; and a tour group to
Ethiopia conducted by David Sperry, Bethel's assistant professor
of anthropology.
"British Perspectives on the American Revolution" is the
title and focal point of Johnson's tour group to London. He
desires that the students gain an understanding of the
American Revolution as seen through the eyes of the British
people. "It is one attempt at breaking cross-cultural
barriers," he said. The class' first stop will be Paris where
they will spend two days. Then it will be on to London
for ·tne next three weeks.
Johnson said that he wants his course to enable "the
students to get into the skins of the British people and think
their thoughts." This will be carried out in a number of
ways. Students will be lectured by professors from Britain's
colleges and universities on the subject of the American
Revolution. This subject will be taught from the British
point of view. A weekend will be spent living with a British
family and the students will find out from the children
what is taught in school concerning the Revolution. Assigned
readings from the libraries written by British historians are
aimed at helping the students understand the Revolution as
British history. The class will also be taking a trip to the
countryside and to the universities of Cambridge and Oxford
giving the American students the chance to exchange
thought and ideas with the British students.
continued on page seven
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Carlso·n gives
first lecture olf
Pi G,amma-M,u
"We have forgotten our prophetic roles
as God's witnesses in this country," said
G. William Carlson in the first Pi Gamma
Mu lecture of the year. Carlson pointed
up several areas 'in which American
evangelicals have not been "articulate
spokesmen" for the "option" of Christian
evangelical activism.
To begin with, he explained, we have
equated faith with culture, "piety and
pa triotism" - conforming to the surrounding
culture rather than giving conscious
allegiance to God. Also, as evangelicals
Carlson said he felt we have
equated a conservative Christianity with
conservative politics, along with a tendency
to deify the presidency. This tendency
has increased whenever a president
has made symbolic gestures toward evangelicals
as a group. "In this there is
the potentiality of idolatry," said Carlson.
"We must develop sound theological
principals for evangelical activism. We
must determine what God meant our
institutions to do (institutions of family~
church, state) and be articulate spokesmen
for these ' ideals. Sin can be manifested
not only in individuals, but in
institutions as well. Repentance should
be called for, therefore, not only in
individuals but in institutions. · For example,
injustice is an evil which cannot
be tolerated either in individuals or in
Student r~spondents to the lecture were ,
Julie Blomquist and Bob Pederson. Miss
Blomquist commented that she could find
no major points on which to disagree
with Carlson, but pointed out ~ perhaps
too-frequent use of Senator Mark Hatfield
(R-Oregon) as a source. Carlson
replied that perhaps this was so, but
that he felt Hatfield was one of the
few sources considered as valid by all
spectrums of evangelical thought. .
Pederson remarked that most of Carlson's
points seemed to be almost ,general
assumptions of those in attendance of
the lecture, but that "certain saints in
the evangelical community" could be up-set
by the material. . ,
The next Pi Gamma Mu lecture, to
be given the third Tuesday in October,
will be given by Dwight Jessup, and
will be entitled, "The Courts as Instruments
of Social Change."
clarion-briefs. • • 1
The following events occur on Friday
and Saturday, September 27 and 28.
"Tartuffle" and "Love's Labor Lost"
Guthrie - Friday ::- 8 p.m. .
"Crucible" - Guthrie - Saturday -
1 :30 p.m. and 8 p.m.
"Spoon River Anthology" - Edyth
Bush Theater of Hamline - 8 p.m.
"Anything Goes" - Landfall Theater
8:30 p.m.
"A Funny Thing Happened on the Way
to the Forum" - Chimera Theater
8 p.m.
"The Sound of Music" - Olde Abbey
Theater - 8 p.m.
"Mr. Roberts" - J::>0tpourri Players
8 p.m.
"Fiddler on the Roof" - Bloomington
Civic Theater, Normandale Community
College Theater - 8 p.m.
"Great Catherine" and "Overruled" -
Theater in the Round - 8 p.m.
"Wait Until Dark" - Old Log Theater
8:30 p.m.
"Barefoot in the Park" - Minnesota
Music Hall Dinner Theater - 8 :30
"The Merry Adventures of Falstaff"
Lakeshore Players - 8 p.m.
"Jacques BreI is Alive and Well and
Living in Paris" - Dudley Riggs' Experimental
Theater Club - 8 p.m.
" Some of the Best of the Brave New
Workshop, Vol. 1" - Dudley Rigg~'
Bra ve New Workshop - 8 and 10
I "Oklahoma!" _ Chanhassen Dinner
Theater - 8 :30 p.m.
"I Do! I Do!" - Chanhassen Playhouse
- 8 :30 p.m.
"A Thousand Clowns" - Chanhassen
Courtyard - Friday: 8 p.m.; Saturday:
5 :30 and 10 :30 p.m.
"Special All-Improvisational Show" -
Dudley Riggs' Brave New ' Workshop
midnight on Saturday
Minneapolis Orchestra - First Covenant
Church - 8 p.m. - Friday
St. PaUl Chamber Orchestra - Capital
Series, John Cage, guest composer
O'Shaughnessy Auditorium, - Saturday
at 8 p.m.
Middlespunk Creek Boys - New Riverside
Cafe - Friday at 9 p.m.
Lonnie Knight and Barb With - Whole
Coffeehouse - 8 :30 p.m.
Paul Storms and Bill Johnson- Extempore
Coffee house - Friday at 10
Citizen's Band - Extempore Coffee
house - Saturday at 10 p.m.
Bret Gardner - Extempore Coffee
house - Saturday at 9 p.m.
Chapel: September 30 - October 4
Monday - Partnership
Tuesday - Dr. Phil Carlson
Wednesday - Worship in the Midweek:
"The Joy of Living" - Pastor Lawson
Thursday - Edgren Men, arranged by
Tim Ashmun
Friday - Rev. Deben Bhuyan, Field
Secretary of the North Bank Baptist
Christian Association.
Chapel speaker from Assam, Indi'a
Rev. Deben Bhuyan (De'ben Bhoo'yah)
has been Field Secretary of the
North Bank Baptist Christian Association
since June 1970. He has responsibility
for some 300 churches with close to
16,000 members in fi~e districts of Assam,
India, located between the Brahmaputra
River to the south and the
Himalayan Mountains to the north.
Mr. Bhuyan, as the elected officer
of the Church Association, works in close
liaison with Rev. Lal Rema, who represents
the Baptist General Conference
mission and its board in the joint Christian
efforts in Assam, Northeast India.
In 1963 the Church Association appointed
him to work in a training program
for pastors, and from this work he was
asked by the Association to acquire seminary
training; When Mr. Bhuyan received
his Bachelor of Divinity degree
in the spring of 1970, from the Union
Biblical Seminary in Yeotmal, he was
the first North Banker to receive such
a degree.
facilities. Their longest stay will be in Addis Ababa.
Interim, continued from page five
"It will be a real learning experience for the students
if they go with a show-me attitude and with an intere'st
to find out," said Johnson.
Dr. Sperry said, "The course will be an intensive exposure
to the people in their daily lives." Much of what the
students learn will come through conversation exchange with
the Ethiopians, young and old alike. Dr. Sperry believes
that the language barrier will not pose too difficult a problem
in that his class will be interacting with many English
speaking students, who can also act as interpreters. Other
learning experiences will include lectures presented by Dr.
The second study tour group, lead by Dr. Sperry, is entitled
"Ethiopia: A Study in Development." Dr. Sperry
has a two-fold purpose for his course. The students will
gain an intellectual feel or grasp of the complexities and
tensions of the social and economic development in Ethiopia.
And secondly, Dr. Sperry desires that the students develop
a human understanding or "gut reaction to what it is like
to live in a newly developing country that is striving for
a better way of life."
Sperry and meetings with Ethiopian scholars and government
Dr. Sperry summed up his goals for ' the students by
saying, "I hope the students' come back deeply disturbed by
some of the things they see and that some of them are
shaken out of their simplistic world views. I want them
to realize that the world is complex. We are part of that
world and we need to get beyond the limits of our perspectives."
. The cours'e is basically experience-oriented. Students will
be exposed to a wide range of interaction as they visit
Ethiopian towns, staying in local hotels and school boarding
Parking not easy
at Bethel
by Diana Gonzalez
"It's one mad rush ' t'O the parking
lot, and then you are almost forced
to park illegally," one student remarked.
President Lundquist himself became well
aware of the problem on September 11.
A student, in order to park legally, resorted
to parking in the Presiden~'s spot.
The current capacity of , the Bethel
parking lot is approximately 500 cars.
Future plans for additional parking are
being submitted to the Site Planning
Committee. The only immediate plan is
to top the area between Mount Zion
and the circle parking lot with road
base. This area would accommodate about
30 to 40 cars. There are no other
definite plans at present. "The need is
realized and specific suggestions have
been made, but money is hard to come
by," said Glen Hayne, superintendent
of buildings and grounds.
Bethel's Traffic and Safety Committee
is attempting to alleviate the present
situation. The committee consists of representatives
from the student body, faculty
and staff. To date, the committee
has approved only two requests for reserved
parking ' ,places, and these were
/ made for reasons of physical disability.
Dean Dennis Passons, a member of the
committee, pointed out some of the areas
it had been working on. He said, "In
the last two years, we have gone up
about 25 percent in enrollment, so we
need more parking space."
The committee recently decided to abolish
the regulation stating that cars
continued on page eight
Quelstiloln Oil ,the . week:
~What do you think of
no Bethel cheerleaders?l
by Carla Hage
Question: "What do you think of not
having Bethel cheerleaders?"
Carla Gustafson - junior
"The Bethel fans back up the team
pretty well, but the cheerlea~ers would
give an C).dded boost that our fans need
to keep them going in supporting our
Tim Ashmun - junior
"The problem is with the crowd. The
cheerleaders could be out there breaking
their hearts, but the crowds are too
J anell Beckman - senior
"I think we need them because we
need someone to unite the spectators'
Dena Haugen - junior
"They don't make that much difference
to whether we win or lose, but
they add excitement and effect to the
sport. It's the natural thing to see them
at a game. They help keep up the morale
when times are tough."
John Cox - sophomore
"I think we ought to have them, but
the reason they are not appreciated by
the students is that they need someone
backing them up like a pep club."
Marty Thompson - freshman
inspiration to the crowd and the crowd
gi ves inspiration to the team. The crowds
need unity and the cheerleaders provide
a unified spirit."
What do YOU think of not having
any Bethel cheerleaders? Do you think
they don't make that much difference?
Or do you think they add pep and enthusiasm
to Royal spectator sports?
Last spring when varsity cheerleading
tryouts were announced, a number of
Bethel girls showed an interest. But many
girls began to feel that as far as
the student body was concerned, cheerleaders
are not that important. So the
initial interest died out and when tryouts
rolled around there were not even
enough girls left to make a squad let
alone to have fair and competitive
According to the students I interviewed,
the Bethel community is starting to notice
the 'absence of cheerleaders. Many
students feel that cheerleaders do make
a aifference in keeping up the enthusiasm
and in uniting support for the
Royals. If enough interest is shown, tryouts
will be held for basketball-wrestling
season. Anyone interested in trying out
should put a note with their name, year
and P.O. number into P.O. Box 639.
Also for those interested there will be
"I don't like it at all. It's the only a meeting in the girls' locker room
drawback at Bethel. Cheerleaders give at 4 p.m. on September 30,1974.
Royals win
despite many
•• • Inlurles
by Curtis Kregness
An injury-plagued Bethel football squ,ad
opens its conference schedule tomorrow
at 7 :30 p.m. against Concordia College,
St. Paul, after running over Dr. Martin
Luther College 20-0 Saturday.
The Royals have watched their disabled
list grow to include about 10 players
after the first three games. Larry Roch-
011, a junior halfback, t~re several ligaments
in his left knee during the Macalester
game, and will sit out at least
one more game. Ken Coffman, another
running back, is out indefinitely with
a possible concussion.
After an appendectomy, Steve Hage
is also sidelined for an undetermined
period. Halfback Ed Heubsch sprained
an ankle in Saturday's game, putting
him out of action for several weeks.
Larry Brandes, senior offensive tackle,
will be inactive for at least three weeks,
after dislocating a shoulder.
Knee injuries have also sidelined Mike
Otto and Ed' Peterson. Otto is out indefinitely,
but Peterson should soon be
back at defensive tackle. Gary Leafblad
and Bruce Kai Hoi will both play at
Concordia tomorrow, after having recovered
from back injuries.
Coach Charles Reynolds ' has put former
wide receiver Scott Logan at running
back, along with regulars Mark Rapin ..
chuk, Donny Peterson, 'and Emery Lindgren.
Logan ran well in Saturday's game
at Dr. Martin Luther College, Reynolds
At Concordia tomorrow, the Royais will
be facing a starting backfield composed
entirely of seniors who have played football
together for four years. On the
offensive line, the Comets sport two
freshmen wide receivers with excellent
speed. "Concordia has always played outstanding
football against us," Reynolds
Gary Schultz, senior quarterback for
the Comets, has "exceptional speed,"
according to Reynolds, and can "pass
accura tely for both long and short yardage."
Concordia's best player is running
back Aaron Simmons, said Reynolds. ·He
added, "The outcome of Saturday's game
will depend on whether we can stop
Simmons on the outside and Schultz at
The Gomets smeared Pillsbury College
32-0 in their opening game, but lost
to Northwestern of Wisconsin 9-6 Saturday.
Reynolds said that the rest of the
conference seems to be "very balanced"
this year. Northwestern of Iowa has "lost
a little confidence" after losing several
opening contests. Yankton has won its
first two games, establishing momentum
going into conference play.
Highlights of the Royals' 20-0 romp
Saturday over Dr. Martin Luther College
included an 80 yard punt by John Holine.
Holine has punted nine times in the
first three games for 370 total yards.
Touchdowns came in the first quarter
on a 35-yard pass to Kim Walker, in
the third quarter on a Rapinchuk run,
and in the fourth with an eight-yard
run by Donny Peterson. Virtually every
player on the Royals' roster- recorded
some game time, significantly boosting
team morale.
Bethel's first conference contest at
home will be October 1~ against W~stmar
College at 1 :30 p.m.
Munich gives
Bethel a prof
by Carla Hage
Why would a young theology student
who knows no German decide to work
for his doctorate at the University of
Munich? -Dr; John Piper, Bethel's newest
teacher of Biblical and Theological
S}udies, had two reasons.
"I wanted to learn German, to be
able to read the literature of the masters
of theology in the language they
wrote," explained Dr. Piper. -
The other reason was Dr. Leonhard
Goppelt, professor of New Testament at
the University of Munich. Dr. Piper had
heard high recommendations about this
man while studying for his masters degree
at Fuller Seminary in Pasadena,
Calif. It was his desire to be able to
study under Dr. Goppelt.
While in Germany, Dr. Piper spent
much of his time working on his doctoral
studies. He and his wife, Noel,
and 2-year-old son, Karsten, did little
traveling to other parts of Germany:
"In fact," he remarked, "most people
who go to-Germany for tWo 'weeks see
, more than we did in three years."
'continued on page nine
Parking, from page seven
parked in the first three rows of the
East lot are not to park overnight. This
rule was abolished because of the many
car owners on campus his year.
Parking on both sides of the road
is now permitted fro~ the west entrance
of the circle lot to the entrance onto
.old Snelling.
Parking on the perimeter of the East
lot and on fire lanes is prohibited. Anyone
who receives a citation and does
not pay it or challenge it in court could
receive a still larger fine.
Healy, continued from page ten
we're on the subject. Your G.P.A. proves that you are an
intellectual pygmy; your column is so pathetic that I use
it to line the' bottom of my parakeet cage; and if it
wasn't for your taking Coach Trager's kids to the zoo,
you wouldn't even be issued a jockstrap.
WitzgaU rush - which was the major part of my ,-playing
time anyhow.
HEALY: Has this new perspective towards football, coupled
with your new job as an 'intramural official given you any
new insight into just how poor of a player you actually
SHELLEY: Now wait a minute! You've gone one step too
far. There's a lot less to you than meets the eye, Healy. Let's
face it, you're one of the most ridiculously untalented slobs
to ever darken the doors of Bethel College.If it wasn't
for your father keeping you in school, and your brother
doing your school work, you'd be working as a janitor
at the Salvation Army .....
HEALY: Mumble .... Mumble .... Mumble .... Mumble ...
SHELLEY: Let's look at your failures, ~ealy, as long as
HEALY: How does your failure at football relate to the
list of other failures you have amassed in your time at Bethel;
i.e., the Clarion editorship, participation in intramurals,
S.M.P., being a Denver BroncO' fan, Campus Life, Spire
photographer, English T.A., your chapel -
SHELLEY: Gimme that tape recorder Healy!
HEALY: Gblrgghbllhh. ' .....
This classic example of an interview turned sour concludes
my well-intended "Where are They Now?" series.
If portion~ of this interview seem incoherent, or unclear,
it could be that parts of the tape became marred as they
were surgically removed from my throat.
Piper, continued from page eight
However, what Dr. Piper and his family
did see left a good impression. "Munich
is a beautiful, . clean city; it reflects
the German people who are orderly
and clean. This is reflected in
their theology also, which is very thorough
and systematic," he continued.
Currently, Dr. Piper is teaching Elementary
Greek I and two sections of
New Testament History. He likes being
at Bethel and enjoys the beautiful campus
setting. Asked what he likes best
about Bethel College, Dr. Piper replied,
"I love the way the students sing in
chapel; they didn't ha.ve that in Germany."
A place to work out Christian
perspective in your field among a '
community of scholars
mstihIte for
.Christian Studies,
an independent graduate faculty
adjacent to the University of
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philosophy, history, methodology,
and general theory of several
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Study with theoretical psychologist
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For details and application forms
Institute for Christian Studies
22q College Street, Toronto,
Ontario, Cmada M5T 1R4
Harriers sweep first two meets;
Larson, Whittaker lead the way
by Larry Caldwell
The Bethel cross country team, second
in the Tri-State Conference a year ago,
has once again gotten off to ' a spectacular
start by defeating six top area
teams in the last two weeks.
Running at Gustavus on Saturday,
September 14, the harriers decisively defeated
the Gustavus host team and also
Southwest Minnesota State College of
Marshall. On a flat four-mile course
with the temperature in the low sixtie~
and little wind, junior Jeff Larson cruised
to an easy victory with a time of
22 :09, repeating his same winning performance
at the same meet last year.
The next Bethel runners to cross the
finish line were senior Steve Whittaker
and sophomore Larry Caldwell, fourth
and fifth respectively, ' with the same
22 :37 clocking. Rounding out the top five
were sophomore John Cox, ninth, with
a time of 23 :06, and freshman Curt
Brown, eleventh, with a 23 :18. Freshman
Dave Clapp and sophomore Scott Anderson
finished 16th and 18th, respectively,
while sophomore transfer Gary Bloom
and freshman Ray Ross crossed the finish
line 23rd and 25th. The final score
was Bethel 30, Southwest 44, and Gustavus
46. (Low score wins in cross'
country, with the place of the first five
team finishers added up to achieve the
final score.)
On Saturday, September 21, the team
tra veled up to Duluth to run against
four of the most respectable teams in
the area - Bemidji State, the Univer-
"T he FlU n Place, To
Eo,t and Drink"
Open Mon.-Sat. 11 :00 AM·1 :OOAM
Sun. Noon til Midnight
2050 N. Snelling
5277 Central
sity of Minnesota at Duluth, the University
of Wisconsin at Superior, and Mt.
Senario of Wisconsin. The five-mile race
was run at the Enger Park golf course
with the temperature hovering around
the 30 degree ,mark, with the wind
gusting to 15 miles an hour, and scattered
snow' flurries. This cross country
course is ' one of the toughest in the
state, it not in the five state area
with varying degrees of merciless hill~
following the course the whole way.
Despite the bitterly cold day and the
hills, Jeff Larson repeated his winning
performance of the previous week by
defeating all the runners in the large
field with a winning time of 28 :03. Steve
Whittaker was third for the Royals with
a 28 :21 clocking, while Larry Caldwell's
28 :55 was good for seventh. Curt Brown
and John Cox rounded out Bethel's top
five score, coming in 12th and 13th
respectively, with times of 29 :34 and
29 :44. Scott Anderson's 19th, (30 :48),
Dave Clapp's 22nd, (31:23), Gary Bloom's
25th, (31 :51), and Ray Ross' 32nd, (35:
58), rounded out Bethel's roster. The
final score found Bethel upsetting the
meet with a comfortable winning total
score of 36, ' followed by Bemidji with
44, Duluth with 45, Superior with 112,
and Mt. Senario with 135.
The next meet for the harriers is
the Winona Invitational at Winona on
September 28. The first home meet at
Como Park is on October 5. Come and
support the team, they will really appreciate
25% Good Student
Wendell Brown
488·5545-business 484-906a-.:...,ome
[ paul
~ealy 1 by Paul Healy
This was originally going to be one of those "Where
are Tl)ey Now?" columns, maybe even the first in a series
of such columns. Although things didn't work out as I had
hoped, I decided to print this interview with Marshall Shelley,
former Bethel football player, and present student body president.
Marshall can be found officiating intramural games
these days, and dropping touchdown passes on the garth.
Busy as he is, however, he still has time to trade barbs
with this overzealous ' scribe. '
I chose Marshall for an interview for two reasons. First,
I felt that he could provide some valuable insights into the
sporting realm. Second, Marshall likes country music, so there
must be something good about him. So, armed with a notebook
and my tape recorder, I invaded Shelley's third floor
office ..... .
HEALY: Summarize your feelings toward football at this
particular time in your life. '
SHELLEY: First of all, I never really enjoyed playing
football.) always played it and then enjoyed it. The fun was
in looking back, laughing over the experiences with the
guys. The practices and such, seemed like necessary evils
in order to have these good memories. And the pressure of
varsity competition took much of the f~n out of it. Pickup
games are more enjoyable, where dropping T.D. passes
and throwing interceptions aren't that big a thing. I'd
get upset at the time, but the next play I'm right back
in there enjoying it again.
Another obvious fact concerning football is the time that
it requires. We all have the same amount of time in each
day, and one makes time for what he wants to make time
for. This year, with my involvement in other activities, it
came to the place where I just didn't want to take time
for football.
HEALY: What's it like attending a Bethel football game and
not being able to play?
SHELLEY: Well, actually Paul, this year hasn't been a big
change in that respect ..... of course, I miss being a part
of the team, but I can't help but remember all the practices
in the mud, winds prints , and passing against a Fred
continued on page eight
Pub Lido-41,ownstairs
fhe Ifalian Pub
"an intimate little spot that
everybody's been waiting forl"
Open: Friday and Saturday
evenings, 5:30 p.m.-12:30 a.m.
Pub is available for private
'Parties Tues., Wed., Thurs.,
and Sun. Evenings
1611 W. Larpenteur
(at Snelling)
Bethel player maintains tight , defense in Hamline
Soccermen tie Ham/ine
by Bruce Olsen
Coach Steve Voth wanted his team to play their best
game against Hamline, but he didn't expect to lose his
best player for the remainder of the season.
Midway through the first period, with the score tied
at 1-1, Dickie Voth scurried down the sidelines, with the
ball moving quickly in front of him. In one easy motion,
Voth booted the ball past the Hamline goalie for the goahead
But all the smiles and happiness soon subsided. Not
more than five minutes later, Voth was being helped off
,the field by his teammates. It was later learned that Voth
had sustained a shoulder separation, and would undergo
surgery the next day. The 2-1 lead that looked so big
had suddenly diminished, and Bethel had to finish the game
without their best player. They fought hard throughout the
rest of the game, but the most they could get out of it
was a 3-3 tie.
On Saturday the team took on Lakehead University, a
team that appeared to be big, slow, and out of shape.
The soccermen were soon to learn otherwise.
Bethel was the first to score, as Steve Jergenson placed
a penalty shot in the top, left-hand corner of Lakehead's
goal. Ten minutes later, Lakehead took advantage of a defensive
let-down, and flipped a shot past goalie Paul Biederman
to tie the game at 1-1.
At halftime, Coach Voth told his team that they should
be able to run against Lakehead, and tire them out. But
the Lakehead players had other ideas, as they kept up the
pressure throughout the second period, forcing the Bethel
players to concentrate on defense.
Breakfast! Lunch! Supper! Late Nite!
Your Choice
Click tabs to swap between content that is broken into logical sections.


text:
Firefly on StockFirmware
Prepare LS and download Firefly files and libraries
Starting point:
Stock LS Live/Pro firmware opened for telnet access. At least fix the permissions for /dev/null
You need to download and save these packages onto your LS. There are a number of them required:
Save them all in the same folder for simplicity.
Telnet to LS and unpack the tarballs
Connect to your LS either with Putty (great for any serious linux use) or with the windows client (more than sufficient for this project). Hint: From the command window enter
telnet <ip linkstation>
replace <ip linkstation> with the address of your Linkstation!! You are asked for a Login. Enter
and then provide the password you set when opening the box in the previous step.
You should see something like the following:
BUFFALO INC. LinkStation series HS-DHGL(JINMU) HS-DHGL90D login: root root@HS-DHGL90D:~#
Once connected, you are in the linux environment of the the LS. You are also connected as root (ie superuser). DON'T do anything you shouldn't!!!
Now we need to issue the commands to unpack the files we downloaded (tarballs). Assuming you saved in the default share folder (ie \\<your LS IP>\share), then type the following into the telnet session:
tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/mt-daapd-svn-1586_arm9.tar.gz
You should see a list of files getting unpacked. Now continue with the rest of the packages:
tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/flac-1.1.4_arm9.tgz tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/libid3tag-0.15.1b_arm9.tgz tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/libogg-1.1.3_arm9.tgz tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/libvorbis-1.1.2_arm9.tgz tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/sqlite-2.8.17_arm9.tgz tar -C / -xzvf /mnt/disk1/share/oggdec-1.0.1_arm9.tgz
Some libraries unpack more files than others. As long as you see something getting unpacked for each command, you should be good to go.
Tell Firefly where your mp3 reside
You may want to create a share on your LS specifically for your mp3. Use the web interface to do this. I did, and I called it mp3. I'll assume you've done the same.
So let's navigate to the folder containing the config file for Firefly (which is called mt-daapd.conf for legacy reasons). Enter
cd /etc/mt-daapd
in your telnet session, then
vi mt-daapd.conf
Now use the arrow keys to find the line that says
mp3_dir = /mnt/disk1/<something or other>
In vi, the x key is delete, and the i key starts inserting text. It's easy once you get the hang of it :wink:. If you screw up, hit the escape button then enter ":q!". This will quit your editing session without saving anything. Once you are happy with your edits (your line should look like this)
mp3_dir = /mnt/disk1/mp3
then hit escape and type ":wq" to save edits and quit the vi editor. (I remember once writing a couple of thousand lines of pascal code on an old unix machine with the vi editor. It is actually an incredibly powerful tool!!!)
Additional Changes for Terastation Live
If you have a very large set of music files, the default configuration settings may end up maxing out your / partition, which is a small 500M partition by default. Fortunately the default installation with the built-in mt-daapd helps out a little by providing a directory on the main array you can use.
Here's what the default partition structure looks like:
# df Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md1 481.6M 448.5M 33.1M 93% / /dev/ram1 15.0M 92.0k 14.9M 1% /mnt/ram /dev/md0 281.0M 15.0M 265.9M 5% /boot /dev/md2 1.4T 369.5G 1.0T 27% /mnt/array1
The / partition includes both the /usr and /var directories so gets filled up pretty quickly with the songs.db and log.
Change the log file location:
#logfile = /var/log/mt-daapd.log logfile = /mnt/array1/mt-daapd/firefly.log
Change the database location:
#db_parms = /usr/local/var/cache/mt-daapd db_parms = /mnt/array1/mt-daapd
Ensure your server can access the folder (it's default permissions are 700):
chmod 777 /mnt/array1/mt-daapd
Warning! On the Terastation Live, each time you make any changes to any of the shares (adding new share, changing properties on existing share) the system kills the Firefly server. If anyone can figure out why this happens and how to fix it, I'd be very pleased!
However, the following changes (thanks to the people on the Firefly forums) will ensure that Firefly restarts
The /etc/init.d/firefly has an error that means that the restart parameter doesn't work. So change...
restart) stop start ;;
restart) $0 stop $0 start ;;
You can also set the daemonwatcher to restart Firefly automatically if it stops by adding the following to /etc/daemonwatch.list:
/var/run/mt-daapd.pid /etc/init.d/firefly.sh restart
Start Firefly
Assuming you have copied some of your mp3 to the newly created share on your LS, we are now ready to start Firefly.
root@HS-DHGL90D:~# /etc/init.d/firefly start
Starting DAAP daemon: mt-daapd
TADA!!!! All working. If not, sorry - maybe I made a mistake :oops: in these instructions.
You can control Firefly and add some smart playlists at http://<your LS IP>:3689.
- username: mt-daapd
- password is mt-daapd.
There is also a nifty little streaming app you can run from your browser at http://<your LS IP>:3689/applet.html
You should now be able to connect to your LS from itunes, your xbox/xbmc, your soundbridge, your squeezebox etc etc.
Make Firefly start on boot
cp /etc/init.d/rcS /etc/init.d/rcS_old
This makes a copy of the rcS file before we modify/screw it up. Then enter(exactly as typed)
echo "exec_sh firefly start" >> /etc/init.d/rcS
All done!!! Now enjoy
Configuring via web frontend
To enable configuration via the web-frontend, you need to change the permissions of the file /etc/mt-daapd/mt-daapd.conf (mt-daapd runs as user nobody in standard configuration) to be writable by the demon/webserver. Either, you can
chmod o+w /etc/mt-daapd/mt-daapd.conf
chown nobody /etc/mt-daapd/mt-daapd.conf
(there are many other ways to that - depends much on your personal taste...)
Then go to the frontend, http://<your LS IP>:3689
- user name: admin
initial password is (in standard configuration, to be changed in /etc/mt-daapd/mt-daapd.conf or - when enbling "Show advanced configuration" in the "configuration" page on the web-frontend)
- password: mt-daapd
On the start page, select "Start Full Scan" to add the files to the library. If you have iTunes and wish to add your smart playlists, you should also add your iTunes folder to the music files. Navigate to "configuration", select "add music folder" and enter the corresponnding path. Click "Save" to write the changes.
There is a comprehensive description for the Linkstation Pro taken from the forum by bawbagg:
This howto has borrowed huge chunks of text from forum user Jimbo's howto for Twonky. That thread can be found here. Many, many thanks to Jimbo for providing this. Without Jimbo's simple and easy to follow instructions for getting telnet running on an unmodified LS I would probably still be floundering around.
Many thanks also to kaiten - one of the developers on this site. He compiled the version of Firefly we are going to install, and provided the libraries that it requires.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
|Technology and Internet Emerging and current tech related issues. Internet, DRM, IP, and other technology related discussions.
|Thread Tools
|Display Modes
Build your own laptop?
Hey guys, thinking about getting a new laptop geared towards gaming when I'm away from home (hop on an airplane type of travel). The Alienware M17X is pretty much what I'm looking for ($2100 ), but I'm wondering if I can build it cheaper.
Any thoughts?
6GB DDR3 1600MHz
500GB SATA 3Gb/s
Last edited by penguin0123; 05-03-2013 at 9:47 AM..
Build it using what?
There are no generic laptop parts (other than hard drives) that universally fit like they would in a tower.
You might be able to swap out a CPU if you're lucky, but you're not going to build one from scratch.
You can get a pretty decent laptop with good specs and dedicated graphics for under a grand easy.
""I learned in chemistry class that alcohol IS a solution."
Sniper Truth - "If you heard my shot, you weren't the target"
My four food groups - Caffeine, Nicotine, Fat, Cholesterol.
"The thing about quotes on the Internet is you can't confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln
Last edited by olhunter; 05-02-2013 at 8:16 PM..
Building your own laptop is very similar to upgrading a tamiya grasshopper. You can get different tires and batteries, the rest of the stuff is stuck there.
You do not build your own laptop and there might be a place or two that will offer you your own pic-it-and-we-build-it service but that will cost a lot more.
It sounds like you need to face the truth. Laptops are NOT meant for GAMING. They are meant for business and schoolwork and business apps. They are NOT meant for CAD and they are NOT meant to rule the world. They might be able to HANDLE certain scenarios, but for this stuff like gaming you NEED a PC/Desktop/Tower. I am sorry but your FIRST part should be a Storm Scout or Corsair Vengeance case because they are meant to be portable.
I ran into this problem a long time ago and you know what I did? I took my plain old PC case to Aras Welding located past downtown riverside and had some biners and d-links welded to the side, plus I also had a cable bracket welded to the side and I spooled 50' of CAT5E cable on it and hung my mouse on it and on the other side my keyboard hung and I then went to a luggage shop and got a kit that you put on boxes that puts a handle on the top that is secured by nylon webbing. AND I carried a 17" KDS FS CRT on in one hand and my game system in the other hand and then when I went to lan parties I ruled because I was the only guy with a modded case. Then all these other jackasses started putting fairy lights all over their cases and called them mods... Yeah WTFE... THAT was a portable gaming case. I still have it. You want it for a cheap price? I also chopped out the front to accomodate twin 120mm fans.
Last edited by stilly; 05-02-2013 at 10:37 PM..
If you're looking for a high-end laptop, look at Sager. I went through LPC-Digital and got a 17" with 16GB RAM, an i7 3740, nVidia 675MX, 128GB SSD and 750GB 7200RPM HDD for about 1700.
NRA-Certified Pistol Instructor
Gaming on a laptop is a waste of money. For the same money, you can put together a good gaming PC and buy a laptop to go with it.
As far as gaming laptops go, there isn't much of a selection out there. The only thing that separates them from regular laptops is a dedicated graphics card. You won't get much game time on them since high end graphics use more power than even the CPU.
A tablet is more convenient and useful than a giant 17" laptop to lug around. I carry either tablet or ultrabook. They're not gaming machines, but I can still play games like counterstrike on the ultrabook. Most of the time I'll just play NBA Jam on my quad-core smartphone.
I agree with what everyone has been saying....
Plus, a laptop with specs like that would get HOT AS ****!
No need for an i7 other than "bragging" rights. An OC'd i5 will do just as good and run much cooler. I have an i3 system I built and my current benchmarks are comparable to i5 systems. When I run the benchmark test and it brings up other people systems with similar scores, I am the only i3 while everyone else has i5's...
But hey, if you want to spend money on an i7 go ahead. To me they are a waste of money. Save the money and put it towards a nice graphics card or sweet monitor.
A note to the NSA or anyone gathering information on me, this disclaimer is for you..."Everything I type on this website Is purely fictional and for entertainment purposes only. None of it is true."
Also, sometimes I type in CAPS to emphasize a POINT. Please dont interpret that as YELLING. Sorry if I HURT any fuzzy little bunny's FEELINGS out there.
Believe me, I know the limitation of laptops. But when I meant "away from home", I mean hop on a flight "away from home". I go on trips somewhat frequently and am looking to take BF3 with me. Battery life isn't that huge a concern cuz I'll be in a hotel room anyway.
Thanks for the advice so far. I put i7 because that's what the M17X came with. I know performance-per-dollar wise, I should be putting $ into a GPU.
Let me know if you guys have more advice given the new definition of "away from home". Thanks.
Last edited by penguin0123; 05-03-2013 at 9:50 AM..
I have a HP 8540W i7 with 8GB RAM and 1GB NVIDA video card. It's a work computer. Worthless on an airplane unless you fly first class with lots of room, and a real heavy tanker to haul around. Can't say much about gaming performance though since I've never tried it on that one.
There are downsides to laptop gaming. I used to be a big laptop gamer, but recently built a desktop and will use that for gaming and continue to upgrade it. Here's why:
I had an Asus g73. SSD, 8gigs ram, rad eon 5870 mobility GPU, i7, etc. I owned it for about 2 years without problem. It never got too hot and never had the overheating issues some did. Well about half a year later, it died. The GPU fried. I found out a replacement GPU was about 450 bucks. I only had a 2 year warranty from Asus so that was out of the question.
I ended up building a rig at this point. I5 3570k, 32 gigs ram, 120 SSD, and an EVGA GTX 560ti. I spent about 600 on the entire build. I already had hard drives and SSDs. Best part is all my components have at least a 5 year warranty. My GPU has a lifetime warranty ( got it just before they switched to limited warranty). So far it plays all my games BETTER than my old laptop. Higher resolution, etc. (I play mostly bf3) best part, the CPU and GPU have yet to get over 60C. Most the time I play bf3, my GPU is at 45 and CPU at 40. In a gaming laptop, they REGULARLY get up to around 80C. If you do a lot of gaming, unfortunately a laptop will just cook your internal components. Plus as I found out, you cannot upgrade without serious modifications and expense. Guys have found ways to use newer GPUs in older laptops, but those GPUs cost 600-800 dollars versus the drop in 400 dollar desktop counterpart.
Just my .02! Good luck! If you are bent on a gaming laptop, Sager, MSI, and Asus make great affordable rigs. Alienware is also excellent, but I found it to be much more expensive. Just whatever you get, make sure it has an excellent cooling system. Most desktop GPUs use fans in addition to a heat sync. Laptops only get the heat sync. A cooling pad and good ventilation is a must.
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Last edited by jsipe007; 05-03-2013 at 11:47 AM..
My m17x ($1610 - re-furbished) is running ok(1.5yr). I had a few blue screens in the beginning. I realized I should turn it off every few weeks instead of putting to sleep all the time. Not sure about bf3 but I played sc2 / borderlands 2 / wow / planetside 2 overseas for 2 mo.
This thing is big and heavy, barely fits in a bag / sleeve made for a 18".
build a frag box(SFF PC) or buy a premade one.. show some real commitment to BF3 when you check in a Monitor in luggage. Buy a Cheap panel monitor, buy a nice piece of hard luggage to protect it.
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If you really want to build your own laptop there is a way to do it, which is how I have "built" the 3 I have. It helps if you don't need or want the latest laptop model. Anyway, here's what I did. I checked Dell's outlet site for models I was interested in and then went to eBay to see what motherboards and cases for those were available. I purchased bare motherboards, bare shells, and certain other components. For the motherboards, I went to AMD's site to find out what the fastest mobile CPU was that would work on the motherboards based on the specs from the original CPU that was installed. Ended up paying $15 for 3 2.1Ghz x64 mobile CPUs. So, now I have 3 laptops, all working. I have an HP that I'm putting together. Have everything except the laptop motherboard. Waiting for that to come down in price a bit.
Last edited by rvicta; 05-03-2013 at 1:16 PM..
Depends on the laptop.
I ran an HP Pavilion DV7 with a 3-core Phenom II for a good long while with a lot of heavy Autodesk Inventor work. Did just fine. Right now I've got a Toshiba Satellite, and I run Inventor 2013 on it for a significant fraction of its up-time. It's been flawless for 18 months now, and looks to be good for at least another year. These are just standard consumer-grade laptops, nothing fancy, nothing mil-spec or anything.
Yes, my Toshiba - with an i7 2630QM - gets a little warm from time to time, but a cooling pad takes care of it quite nicely. It's had 18 months of some pretty heavy gaming (Assassin's Creed series, Batman Arkham series, quite a few other things as well) and a lot of heavy CAD work, and it's still chugging along just fine.
There's plenty of good reasons to have an i7, especially if you're working in graphics-related fields. I'm a professional CAD monkey, and I do a lot of rendering work. Rendering on an i7, with a total of 8 cores (if you've got hyperthreading enabled) is ridiculously good. And jesus, even if you're not doing rendering, why the hell wouldn't you want an i7, with prices where they're at? 18 months ago, I paid $650 at a local retail establishment for my laptop. It was new, not used or refurbished, with the i7, 8 GB, a discrete graphics card, and a 750 GB hard drive. I added a 256 GB SSD above that, but still, for the money ...
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Last edited by Peter.Steele; 05-03-2013 at 6:33 PM..
Im only speaking from experience. Im not a hard core gamer and I dont run heavy graphic programs so Ive been able to get by on my i3 2100 with 8GB RAM (the i3 has hyperthreading too). I wouldnt knock an i7, I would just make sure that you are actually using it to its full potential and making sure it stays cool! Yeah Ive seen prices come down quite a bit on the i7's. I guess as long as Intel comes out with new generations of processors they get cheaper and cheaper
I dont know but for some reason Im fixated on the i5 series. But then again, an i7 would give me reason to buy a better heatsink I wouldnt mind having an i7 but for me It would be wasted My i3 barely gets used to its full potential and Ive been pleasantly surprised!
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The truth is, even though it is possible to build a laptop, you are better off just buying one. Nothing wrong with upgrading a laptop's CPU or RAM after you bought it, but building one is just not worth it.
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Technology and the internet have made many people that use it into impatient "gotta have it NOW NOW NOW!" individuals. Look at the boston bomber footage when the cops were going door to door. WE gotta catch him NOW NOW NOW! WHY? He is a criminal now, he was a criminal yesterday and he will be a criminal tomorrow. Look at all of these people that have become texting ZOMBIES. Walking out in front of busses or cars and not paying attention. For WHAT? So they can continue their conversation uninterrupted with their chatty friends who will talk for 4 more hours but still have the attention span of a ferret on meth? CA passed a Stupid law that made it illegal to drive and talk on your cell phone or text essentially. Did it work? Nope. Now I see MORE of that crap. And we HATE people that do it too (women usually).
So what does this mean for you? When you go on a plane, I am sorry but gaming is not an option. If you want to play games then play cheap ones like Fusion the Sega everything emulator or MAME32 or keep the games simple. Then when you get back home you can relax, put on some headphones and blast the real games all night long on a decent system that was made for them. The answer here is just to wait. but of course, you and many others have an adjusted mentality from all of this technology and you are becoming a slave to it. Just put it down, get a laptop with a 500GB HD or bigger and load it up with e-books and READ while you are away. No harm there. Get a google nexus 7 like me and load it up with angrybirds and e-books. I am fast tracking myself into learning 8 languages, 4 Op systems and learning how to bypass firewalls... All while I am taking my gamma to physical therapy...
Sorry you might not like my answer, but maybe instead of GAMING you really should look for something different to do when you are away.
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