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Sarah Bartholemy
The Cedar Key Sharks were defeated by Seven Rivers Christian 26 to 5.
CJ Parks, Kit Riley, and Brandon and Bradley Register scored four runs in the first inning.
Bradley Register had both a second and third base hit in the first and fourth inning and due to an RBI the team was awarded two points.
Bradley Register was brought home by CJ Parks in the second and fourth inning.
CJ Parks said, "We didn't win but the boys played hard. Next game we will definitely put our teamwork into action and hopefully win."
The baseball team started out the season with a loss against the Oak Hall Eagles. The final score of the evening was Oak Hall 21- Cedar Key 1. TJ Jackson scored the one point with a sacrificed hit from Tyler Sloan.
Coach Joe said, "I am proud of the team it's not all about winning. They did not give up and they played hard and had good sportsmanship. I told the team at the first practice that winners never quit no matter how many points that they may be down. They played hard until the end and it makes me proud to be a shark."
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ChromaTemp is quality liquid tempera formulated for posters, windows, and crafts. Will not settle or separate. Brilliant, vibrant, and opaque colors are all intermixable and clean up with water. Some colors are also available in metallic or fluorescent. Use with brushes, rollers, fingers, or a sponge. High quality, pigment rich ChromaTemp is designed to be used full strength. Non-toxic CP seal-approved. Packaged in unbreakable plastic bottles.
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I am in the market for a new mask. I dont need the most expensive awesomeness, just a good mask. What does everyone recommend?
I am in the market for a new mask. I dont need the most expensive awesomeness, just a good mask. What does everyone recommend?
I recommend V-Force Profilers. Inexpensive, great field of view, great venting, and great if you happen to have a large head (which I do).
^ agree ^
I like my proto switch FS. Good protection. No fog issues. Bottoms are made of soft material so you get a few bounces. Excellent quick change lens system and shares lenses with the pro-axis. And it comes with a visor, which I personally like. I also have a proflex and like that for hot summer days because it breathes a little better, but the protection (specifically the ear protection) isn't nearly as good as with the switch.
There are definitely "better" masks out there, but they are also much more expensive.
Proto switch FS is my choice too.
For the same reasons plus one : there's no problem with my glasses !
JT Proflex. Excellent build quality, can be had for a reasonable price, and covers your face a bit better than other masks.
I thoroughly enjoy the Proflex - you won't find a mask more comfortable or breathable. They are relatively cheap, too. As far as ear protection, you can buy 'hard ears' or 'revo ears', which both offer more safety than usual soft ears.
Of course, I really like the Flex 8, too..
JT all the way, either my hard shell spectra or either one of my proflexs depending on light conditions.
First a few questions.
Sensitive to a chin shot?
For me with glasses my old flex's work great. I have also used a set of Dye I4's that fit very well but left a lot of face open. It was a situation I am comfortable with (played with just goggles for backyard ball for years) so I didn't mind.
JT Flex 7 or Grillz. I don't like the Profilers myself as their lenses are just too tall for my taste (I've used them for just over one year). But if you are willing to assemble something different, this is my recommendation:
Gotta love the Flents!
Vents predator. My wet dream mask as an 8th grader. Haha.
I used a JT spectra for years... and years. Bought a flex 8 for the wife. Nice mask for how cheap they are. But lense change/cleaning is typical spectra pain. And I had to add some soft ear protection to cover the bottom of the ears.
Now I'm using a Dye I4. Tiny tiny profile mask. And very quick and easy lense removal/cleaning. And actually with all the measurements I've taken comparing it to the others. They cover the same amount as either JT from a direct side shot. BUT they are so close to your face that from any downward angle shot they cover a lot less. Yet on the flipside. If your laying back there is less open for a shot to go up in to your mouth or nose like on the spectra. And yes. I have had that happen more than once.
Picked up a grillz used from a guy here on AO for a steal. Its for the wife. Great mask. Its really comparable to my I4. Can't say I like it more or less. It has a great look. And it is softer than the I4. But in the end I think they are about the same for overall function. Both super comfortable And weigh nothing.
Find what you like used for cheap and just put a new lense in it.
I love my Proto axis for protection, field of view, and simplicity of lense removal
My Jt Flex feels like nothing is there, light and comfy as hell as long as you don't mind a paintball to the side of the face or forehead
Larger adult-sized head: V-Force Grill
Smaller head or carefree about jaw or double-chin protection: Sly Profit
I have had no problems with my Vforce Grill
Many mask have not enough space to keep the glasse at their right withour squeezing or twiwting them.
Some others have fog issues ethier on the glasses or on the sheild.
Added to the good protection for top and bottom of the face and sides of the head, this make the Proto switch FS the best solution for me.
Absolutely for problem for chin shots.
i was going to say eflexes (love mine) but if you need to wear glasses... grillz might be a good choice. I feel like they may have some extra room for your glasses
I never tried grillz.
All my friends have Proto, JT or Dye.
I like Grillz. However, there wasn't room for fans at the top. Some days, I just need fans, so I put them in a pair of JT flex 7s. The grillz seem to do just as good as the JTs with a thermal lens, but at sundown and rainy days I have to have fans around here.
I actually need a new mask, despite having an entire tote of them. I am sure none have lenses available anymore. Waaaay back in the day, before JT even released their fan module, I wired up a couple 40mm CPU fans to a battery box in a pocket. It would run on momentary or toggle mode. I attached the fans to the top of the goggles with some twist ties.
Depends on the size and shape of your head. I love the weight and comfort of Proflexes, but I can't put up with the lens removal and have to swap the softears for either ProShield hard ears or revolution rubber ears.
Current go-to goggles are V-Force Grills and Dye i4. Got a set of Grills when they first came out and they never, ever fogged with the single pane lens. Stupidly sold them and got a new set and found that the manufacturing quality of the lens coating had dropped and it fogged all the time! They're perfect with the thermal lenses, although if you've got a big nose be aware that the tip can sometimes touch the inside of the mask. The i4 is probably the comfiest mask I've ever worn but it is worryingly small and you have to lash together a peak/visor for it. I liked the E-Vents although they were heavy, but less keen on the E-Flex which seem to sit oddly on the face.
Currently debating adding a Virtue VIO to the collection as they look well made - but again, no peak/visor, do the manufacturers never play in bright sunlight or rain?
do the manufacturers even play any more?
If you have a small head: JT Flex 8's, with the dual pane thermal lens, visor, and fan.
Full head coverage, even the back, and with the dual pane lens and fan combo, you will NEVER have goggle fog. EVER.
I'm prone to migraine headaches so the mask has gotta be very light as not to set a bad migraine off.I've had the best luck not getting migraines with my dye i3 with the amber lenses. I'll prolly grab a i4 this year.:-) my buddy's wear flexes for more protection they say but I will take several shots any day with my i3s as not to suffer a migraine.:-)
i've been using the same spectras for 12 years. i love the way grillz look though.
thanks for all the tips, sounds like i will just be ordering new JT Lenses
This thread has got me curious about fans. How noisy are they in actual use? I cannot stand not being able to hear, and dislike the Darth Vader breathing sounds of the E-flexes and i4s, despite liking them pretty well otherwise.


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Police log for April 23
Police log
April 23
7:24 a.m. Vandalism report on West Langley Avenue.
7:43 a.m. Arrest at East La Mirage Lane and North Sahara Drive for driving on suspended license.
7:47 a.m. Property-damage traffic-collision report at South Gemstone Street and East Church Avenue.
8:41 a.m. Theft report on East Ridgecrest Boulevard.
9:29 a.m. Spousal-abuse report on West Reeves Avenue.
11:01 a.m. Child Protective Services referral on South Gold Canyon Street.
11:24 a.m. Supplemental report and arrest on West California Avenue for spousal abuse and terrorist threats.
11:47 a.m. Malicious-mischief report on North Norma Street.
11:50 a.m. Assist other department on North Cisco Street.
12:14 p.m. Petty-theft report on North China Lake Boulevard.
1:29 p.m. Illegal-dumping report on West Haloid Avenue.
1:47 p.m. Found-property report on North Sanders Street.
1:54 p.m. Panhandling report on South China Lake Boulevard.
1:55 p.m. Disturbance – subject on West Station Avenue.
2:33 p.m. Runaway/out-of-control juvenile at Pierce Elementary School.
2:55 p.m. Verbal-threats report on West Ridgecrest Boulevard.
3:24 p.m. Battery report on North Warner Street.
3:29 p.m. Fraud report on North Norma Street.
5:37 p.m. Disturbance – landlord/tenant on East Commercial Avenue.
6:31 p.m. Arrest on East Commercial Avenue for possession of a controlled substance, possession of a controlled substance for sale, transporting a controlled substance, resisting, delaying or obstructing a peace officer and using or being under the influence of a controlled substance.
6:47 p.m. Theft report on North Cisco Street.
8:03 p.m. Warrant arrest and citation on West Ridgecrest Boulevard for driving without a license and failure to appear.
9:41 p.m. Supplemental report on West California Avenue.
10:19 p.m. Warrant arrest at South China Lake Boulevard and West California Avenue for assault with a deadly weapon.
10:58 p.m. Disturbance – party on South Sims Street.
11:35 p.m. Warrant arrest on West California Avenue.
Officers made 27 traffic and bicycle stops.


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|Episode Description
|Wednesday, Jun 26, 2013 - 5:00 PM
"The Undertaking"
FRONTLINE profiles Thomas Lynch, a poet and undertaker whose family has cared for the dead in a small town in central Michigan for three generations. In The Undertaking, a critically acclaimed book, Lynch offered unique and profound insight into what he called the "dismal trade." In this intimate and revealing film, Lynch helps make sense of the ways Americans cope with death, grief and life. G
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In the end, Erie wanted out.
In a letter received Monday by the communities of Boulder County, Erie announced it would leave the county's "Super IGA" on Oct. 16. The agreement coordinates planning across the towns and cities of the county, as a way to keep everyone's plans for development and preservation on the same page.
But Erie Mayor Joe Wilson said those plans too often came at his town's expense.
"Our citizens want to buy goods and services in their own communities, buy from their own neighbors, contribute to their own sales tax base," Wilson said. "And Boulder County has been standing in the way of that for years."
The IGA -- short for intergovernmental agreement -- technically has 10 years left to run. But there's a catch. A community that wants to get out can do it on the 10th anniversary, if it gives at least 90 days' warning. Once one town or city has said it's leaving, the others have 45 days to say whether they're going to do the same.
Mayor Carolyn Cutler of the neighboring city of Lafayette said her City Council would have to look at its own options, including whether it was worth staying in the agreement now that one of its nearest neighbors was leaving.
"We have to think about what's in Lafayette's best interests," she said. "We were not surprised."
A smaller-scale agreement, the East Central Boulder County IGA among Boulder County, Erie and Lafayette, is due to expire at the end of 2014. Wilson said the town government "absolutely" means to leave that compact as well.
The Super IGA and its predecessors, a lineage of agreements that date back to 1994, were meant as a shield against unwanted sprawl. Boulder County Commissioner Cindy Domenico said the agreements, with their designations of where growth would occur and what sort would be permitted, gave county residents "a sense of certainty about what might happen next to them."
She said she was disappointed with Erie's choice and that she hoped talks between the county and the town could continue.
"We're still hopeful that we may find a way to not have land wars start up again in east Boulder County," Domenico said.
From Wilson's view, the help has been uneven at best, allowing the county to make land-use decisions that belong to the municipalities.
"They pick winners and losers," he said. South of Arapahoe Road along U.S. Highway 287, Wilson said, Lafayette has been allowed to do extensive commercial development; north of Arapahoe, in Erie's planning area, he said, little activity was allowed.
"Erie has no choice but to look out for the best interests of its citizens and build a sensible economy that provides the essential ingredients to the health of the city," Wilson said. "And the IGA is currently not part of that equation."
County officials contend that the agreements have also worked to Erie's benefit, protecting its west side from encroachment while the town pursued development to the east.
Cutler said she felt the agreements have been a good thing, particularly in the open space near 287 that was set aside as "rural preservation" land. She said she had hoped to see a revenue-sharing agreement between Erie and Lafayette for the 287 corridor --allowing both to benefit economically from the existing buffer -- but was unsure if that would happen should the existing agreements fail.
"The preservation of land, in the short run and the long run -- that will benefit us all," she said.
Other parties to the super IGA are Boulder, Jamestown, Longmont, Louisville, Lyons, Nederland and Superior.
Scott Rochat can be reached at 303-684-5220 or firstname.lastname@example.com.


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Elizabeth Smart has the kind of fame no one would want: In the summer of 2002, at the age of 14, she became one of the nation's most famous kidnap victims when she was abducted from her bedroom in Salt Lake City, where she lived with her devout Mormon family.
Her kidnapper, Brian David Mitchell, saw himself as a religious prophet and took her to be his second wife in a polygamous marriage. With a knife at her throat, Mitchell forced her to go with him to his remote camp on a mountain near Salt Lake, where they lived during the first stage of her nine-month captivity.
Smart tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross that Mitchell "knew exactly how to get what he wanted. He was a master at manipulation," she says. Smart was raped by him nearly every day, sometimes several times a day. The only other person in their camp was Mitchell's wife, Wanda Barzee, who treated Smart like her slave. Eight years after the police found Smart and freed her, Mitchell was sentenced to life in prison. Barzee was sentenced to 15 years after reaching a plea deal. (Click here to see a timeline of the abduction and its aftermath.)
As for Smart, she's now married and finishing work on her degree at Brigham Young University. She's the head of the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which helps prevent crimes against children and educate children about how to protect themselves if they are mistreated by a stranger. Her memoir My Story has just been published.
Interview Highlights
On the way her kidnappers used religion to justify their behavior
My parents have raised me to believe in a kind and a loving God, and someone who cares about me, who is always there for me, and who would never wish harm or illness or any kind of tragedy upon me. And then here this man and this woman are telling me that actually God has ordained them to do this, and that they have been called to kidnap young girls and that I should be grateful, I should be thankful for what's happening to me.
On the remote camp where Mitchell brought her
It's not far from my home, but it is not an easy climb. ... It is extremely difficult to get there; there are so many trees and close-growing bushes, and you are climbing up a very, very steep incline. ... It's not a walk in the park. ...
I wasn't so much afraid of the mountains ... but I was afraid of him, and I felt the further I got away from my home and my family, the less chance I would have of escaping, the less chance I would have of getting away. Although it may seem for those people who have never been there, [it] may not seem like it's that far away, to me, it felt like an eternity just because it was such a long hike. ... And this man, he seemed to have planned for everything. When I got to the camp, I didn't come to just a tent thrown up in the middle of the woods. No, it was very well laid out; it was very well-stocked; it was very well-prepared. He had cables running from one end of the camp to the other, which he chained me up to.
On Wanda Barzee's relationships with Smart and with Mitchell
She felt jealous [of me]; I mean, that's what all of their fights were about, and they fought all the time. But at the same time, that's what she wanted. These weren't just his choices — they were her choices, too. I mean, she knew [that] what she was doing was wrong, but she was still OK with it. So, yes, she was mistreated, but she didn't have to be; that was her choice. For her to sit by and watch what happened to me and not do anything, not say anything, she had passed the point of feeling sympathy or feeling anything for anyone else but herself.
On how people avoided them because of their dirty physical appearance — they dressed in dirty robes and veils
That was right after 9/11 had happened. ... It was at a time when, even more so than now, that religion was a very hot topic, and there were so many people from different religions that were being mistreated because of how they looked or because some extremist group did something terrible. It was a hard time. And by looking a certain way, Mitchell found that people were a bit more standoffish, that they didn't want to get too close. It was really just another way of manipulating people around him, getting them to stay away, getting them to want to avoid us. It was not uncommon for us to walk down a street and there'd be people walking towards us, then they'd stop, cross the street, walk around us, and then cross the street again and come back to the same side they were on, because they didn't want to pass us that close on the street.
On the best advice her mother gave her
The morning after I was rescued my mom gave me the best advice I've ever been given. ... My mom said to me, "Elizabeth, what this man has done to you, it's terrible, there aren't words strong enough to describe how wicked and evil he is. He has stolen nine months of your life from you that you will never get back. But the best punishment you could ever give him is to be happy, is to move forward with your life and to do exactly what you want to do. ... The best thing you can do is move forward because by feeling sorry for yourself and holding on to what's happened, that's only allowing him more power and more control over your life, and he doesn't deserve another second. So be happy." ... I'm not perfect at following her advice ... but I do try to follow it every day.
On the RAD (Resist Aggression Defensively) Kids program, which is supported by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation
RADKids is based on three simple principles ... The first principle is that you're special and nobody has the right to hurt you. The second principle is because you're special, you don't have the right to hurt anybody else unless — and I say this with a big unless, unless someone is hurting you, and then you can do whatever it takes to get away, whatever it takes to be safe, to escape from whatever situation you're in. Then, by all means, do whatever it takes — bite, scream, kick, yell, whatever. The third principle, which is most important, in my opinion, is that if something happens, it's not your fault and that you can tell ... not only you can but you should tell.
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, Elizabeth Smart, has the kind of fame no one would want. She was one of the most famous kidnapping victims of our time. On June 5th, 2002, at the age of 14, Smart was abducted from her bedroom in Salt Lake City, where she lived with her devout Mormon family. Her kidnapper, Brian David Mitchell, saw himself as a religious prophet and took her to be his second wife in a polygamous marriage.
With a knife at her throat, Mitchell forced her to go with him to his remote camp on a mountain near Salt Lake, where they lived during the first stage of her nine-month captivity. She was raped by him nearly every day, sometimes several times a day. The only other person in their camp was Mitchell's wife, Wanda Barzee, who treated Smart like her slave.
It took nine months for the police to find Smart and rescue her. Mitchell was eventually sentenced to life in prison; Barzee was sentenced to 15 years after reaching a plea deal. As for Smart, she's now married and finishing work on her degree at Brigham Young University. She's the head of the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which tries to prevent predatory crimes against children.
Her new memoir, "My Story," has just been published. For parents listening, this is a disturbing story that may be especially disturbing for children to hear. Elizabeth Smart, welcome to FRESH AIR. I'd like you to start by reading an excerpt of your memoir.
ELIZABETH SMART: OK: It's funny some of the things that I remember, many of the details forever burned in my mind. It's as if I can still smell the air, hear the mountain leaves rustle above me, feel the fabric of the veil that Brian David Mitchell stretched across my face. I can picture every detail of my surroundings: a tent; the washbasin; the oppressive dugout full of spiders and mice. I can feel the cut of the steel cable wrapped so tightly around my ankle, the scorch of the summer heat lifting off the side of the hill, the swaying of the Greyhound bus as we fled to California.
I can still see the people who were around me, their blank expressions, their fear of how we were dressed, my veil and the dirty robes, the looks of confusion in their eyes. I remember so many overwhelming feelings and emotions: terror that is utterly indescribable even to this day; embarrassment and shame so deep I felt as if my very worth had been tossed upon the ground; despair; starving hunger; fatigue and thirst and a nakedness that bares one to the bones; intruding hands; pain and burning; the leering of his dark eyes; a deep longing for my family; a heartbreaking yearning to go home.
GROSS: That's Elizabeth Smart, reading from her new memoir "My Story." Elizabeth, thank you for reading that. You know, I'm just so glad that instead of withdrawing from the world, as I think you might have done after such a horrible experience, you've become an activist in trying to prevent other children from being victimized in the way that you were.
And I was wondering if the opposite was ever a possibility for you, the withdrawing from the world completely, if that was ever a possibility for you?
SMART: That would have been very easy to do. That would have been very, very easy to do, to withdraw, to not push forward, to use my experience as a crutch throughout the rest of my life. But the morning after I was rescued, my mom gave me the best advice I've ever given, and it's the only advice that I can share with other people.
My mom said to me: Elizabeth, what this man has done to you, it's terrible. There aren't words strong enough to describe how wicked and evil he is. He has stolen nine months of your life from you that you will never get back. But the best punishment you could ever give him is to be happy, is to move forward with your life and to do exactly what you want to do because, yes, this will probably go to the courts, and some kind of sentencing will be made, but you may never feel like justice is served.
You may never feel like restitution has really been made. But at the end of the day, God is our ultimate judge, and everything that you've lost will be made up to you. And for those who don't receive justice here, they certainly will there. So the best thing you can do is to move forward because by feeling sorry for yourself and holding on to what's happened, that's only allowing him more power and more control over your life, and he doesn't deserve another second. So be happy and move forward.
And I'm not perfect at following her advice, but what daughter is perfectly following their mother's advice? But I do try to follow it every day.
GROSS: One of the telling details in your memoir is right before Brian Mitchell kidnapped you, he realized you were the one, that you were the person who he was - who was chosen to be his second wife. And then he starts kind of scoping out your family, figuring out how to break in. But that first time, when he's sizing you up and realizing you're the one, he's also I think panhandling, and he looks - like your mother thinks he looks like a man down on his luck.
And she gives him $5. So, you know, that's just so remarkable that, like, your mother tried to help him, gave him $5, and then he kidnaps you and tortures you.
SMART: It is, but that's also the kind of person he was. He knew exactly how to get what he wanted. He was a master at manipulation, and that's what he did.
GROSS: So he was searching for the one, the chosen one to be his second wife, and his criteria seemed to be that she had to be young, check; beautiful, check; and Mormon, check. Why did his second wife have to be Mormon when what he was doing was perverting his religion and the Old Testament, just perverting everything that any religious - sane religious person would hold dear? Why do you think it was important to him that his second wife be Mormon?
SMART: He had a lot of reasons for everything he did. He always had some kind of justification or excuse as to why it should be a certain way. And he had felt that Mormon girls - I mean, we don't drink, we don't smoke, we don't do drugs, and he just felt like we were a more vulnerable target. And by eventually forcing us to all of these different things, he would gain more control and more power over us because that was against everything that we had been taught.
GROSS: He saw himself as this great, like, prophet. What are some of the things he borrowed from religions and from the Bible, and what are some of the things he just, like, made up?
SMART: Well, that's true to everything he did. I mean, any time he wanted me to do something that I didn't want to do, he would always say, oh, well, you know, Christ descended below everything, and then he rose above all things. I mean, he went among the sinners, and he ate with the sinners, and he rose above all that. Well, we're certainly no better - you're certainly no better than Christ, so it's important for you to experience these things, as well.
GROSS: Were you able to think while he was perverting all these religions and preaching them, were you able to think analytically about how totally crazy, how he was taking things out of context and manipulating them in ways to just torture and subjugate you?
SMART: Oh yeah, definitely. My parents, I mean, they've raised me to believe in a kind and a loving God and someone who cares about me and who's always there for me and would never wish harm or illness or any kind of tragedy upon me. And then here this man and this woman are telling me that actually God has ordained them to do this, and they have been called to kidnap young girls and that this is - that I should be grateful, I should be thankful for what's happening to me.
GROSS: Right. He broke into your home, cut a hole in the screen, awakened you with a knife at your throat telling you that if you screamed or said a word that he would murder you, and then he would murder your family. Did you have any doubt that he meant it?
SMART: No, I didn't have any doubts whatsoever. My bedroom is like my ultimate safe spot. I'm surrounded by my family, I'm in my home, that is the safest place in the world to me. And here was this strange man who had penetrated my safe haven and had gotten all the way into my bedroom and was standing over me with a knife at my neck. No, I had absolutely no doubts that he would kill my family or me.
GROSS: So you didn't resist not only to protect yourself but to protect your family.
SMART: Yes, I was so terrified when I woke up. At first I couldn't believe it was real, but then when I did realize it was real, and he was leading me out of my house, and he was telling me that if I made a sound, or if I did anything that he'd kill my family, he'd have no problem killing anyone who came after me, that was pretty petrifying.
And it's easy to think of it now as an adult, I mean, it's easy to think well, would he really have done that. I mean, what are the chances? Wouldn't somebody have stopped him before he got that far? But I wasn't 25. I wasn't an adult at that time. I was only 14 years old. And my 14-year-old mind, that threat was very real. It was a reality. It wasn't even a threat.
GROSS: My guest is Elizabeth Smart. She's written a memoir called "My Story." We'll talk more about her kidnapping after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Elizabeth Smart, who sadly became a famous kidnap victim in 2002 when she was kidnapped by Brian Mitchell, who took her from her bed at home when she was 14, put a knife to her throat and told her he'd kill her and her family if she screamed or said a word. He took her to his mountain camp, made her his, quote, "second wife" and then proceed to rape once or several times a day until she was finally discovered by the police nine months later.
His camp was on a mountain not far from your home, and so you had to climb all night to get there in your pajamas. Would you describe where he took you and what it looked like?
SMART: You're right, it's not far from my home, but it is not an easy climb. It is not an easy hike. It is extremely difficult to get there. There are so many trees and close-growing bushes, and you are climbing up a very, very steep incline. I mean, it's not a walk in the park.
GROSS: So were you afraid of the climb as well as him?
SMART: I wasn't so much afraid of the climb, I wasn't so much afraid of the mountains where I was at, but I was afraid of him, and I felt the further I got away from my home and my family the less chance I would have of escaping, the less chance I would have of getting away. So although it may seem for those people who have never been there, may not seem like it's that far away, to me it felt like an eternity away just because it was such a long hike, and it was so far back.
And this man, he seemed to have had planned for everything. I mean, when I got to the camp, I didn't come to just a tent thrown up in the middle of the woods, no. It was very well laid out. It was very well stocked. It was very well prepared. I mean, he had cables running from one end of the camp to the other and which he chained me up to.
He had tents. He had bought or - I don't think bought would be the correct word, but he had...
GROSS: Should we go with stolen?
SMART: Yes, that's a much better word.
SMART: He had stolen lots of food. He had plates. He had dishes. I mean, he just had a very, very well-stocked camp.
GROSS: Awaiting you at the camp was also Wanda Barzee, who was his wife.
SMART: Yes, and she was probably the most terrifying part of that camp.
GROSS: Why?
SMART: I remember first walking into this campsite, and out of the tent walked a woman, but, I mean, she - there just was something so different about her, I mean just the way that she looked, the way that she acted, the feelings I got from her. The first thing she did was she came up to me, and she hugged me.
And you would think that in that kind of situation a hug would be very comforting, would be very much appreciated, but this was anything but that. I mean, if hugs could speak, then this hug was basically telling me that I was nothing, that I was there to serve her and that she had no problem doing whatever she wanted to me. It was not a good hug. It was not a good feeling.
And she had immediately brought me inside of the tent, sat me down on the bucket where she commenced to try to bathe me and change me and get me ready for when Mitchell would come into the tent.
GROSS: She was cleaning you so that he could rape you is...
SMART: Yes.
GROSS: Yeah. And you were hoping initially that maybe they were abducting you so that you could be their surrogate daughter. And then he basically told you that he was going to seal you into marriage and that would be living with him for the duration of your life on Earth and in the afterlife, as well. Did he actually perform a ceremony?
SMART: I was so caught up in worrying about what had happened to me, what was happening to my family, was my family even alive or was my younger sister, who I knew was alive because she had still been alive when Mitchell led me out of the room...
GROSS: She shared a bedroom with you.
SMART: Yeah, she shared a bed with me. I mean, what would happen if she woke up, and she woke up to a house full of dead people? What if he had gone through my entire house already and killed everybody? I mean, I was worried about her. I was worried about what was going to happen to me. I was worried about my family. I mean, if they were alive, did they know I was gone yet? Did they know what was going on? Were they going to save me? How were they going to find me?
I had a million thoughts going through my head at a million miles per hour.
GROSS: You were so young. You were 14. I mean, if you don't mind my bringing this up, you were not only a virgin, you hadn't started menstruating yet. And reading your book, I was wondering, did you know the basics of human sexuality?
SMART: I knew what sex was, but it wasn't something that I was interested in or that I cared to know anything about. I was a young 14-year-old. I wasn't dumb, but I just wasn't interested in that part of life yet. It didn't have any appeal to me at that point.
GROSS: He had told Wanda, his wife, that you were to be her handmaiden, which she basically interpreted as that you were going to be her slave. What were some of the things that she made you do for her?
SMART: She would have me sweep out the tent, sweep off the tarps. Because our plates would be sitting outside, it wouldn't be rare for the middle of the night for mice or rodents to be running across our plates and leave their business on the plates, and so then she would have me wipe off and wash the dishes from rodent feces.
She would have me stitch up robes, which was - I'm not a very good sewer, so I didn't think she was ever too happy with the work I performed there. But she just had me do whatever she wanted me to do.
GROSS: You know, reading your book, I kept thinking, as I'm sure you were thinking, how could she be with this man, and what was wrong with her that enabled her to be with him. And I wonder what conclusions you've reached about her.
SMART: I think really the most shocking part of her is how could she allow someone to do this to a child when she was a mother of six children herself.
GROSS: But she left those children to be with him, right?
SMART: Yeah, she did, she left them. And I've just come to the conclusion that he told her what she wanted to hear, and she didn't want to be alone. She didn't want to be alone, and he told her what she wanted to hear. I mean, he told her how wonderful she was, how she was second only to Christ, how she was just such a spiritual daughter of God that she has such a special calling.
I mean, those are all things that she wanted to hear, how special she was, how - for lack of better words chosen she was. But just how she was above everybody else. Those were all things she wanted to hear. And that's how he got away with it.
GROSS: One of the things he made her do was to perform sex acts with him for you to watch so that you'd know how to do it afterwards. Was she jealous of you because, like, her sexual relationship with him at this point was, like, demonstrations so that you could be his actual sexual partner, you were the one that he desired? I mean, the whole thing is just, like, so, so sick.
But you'd think that she'd be felling jealousy, at least, if not sympathy.
SMART: She felt jealous. I mean, that's what all their fights were about, and they fought all the time. But at the same time, that's what she wanted. I mean, these weren't just his choices; they were her choices, too. I mean, she knew what she was doing was wrong, and yet she was still OK with it. So yes, she was mistreated, but she didn't have to be. That was her choice.
And for her to sit by and watch what happened to me and not do anything, not say anything, she had passed the point of feeling sympathy or feeling anything for anyone else but herself.
GROSS: Elizabeth Smart will be back in the second half of the show. Her new memoir about her kidnapping is called "My Story." I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with Elizabeth Smart, who was one of the most famous kidnapping victims of our time. She's written a new memoir about that hellish nine month period of her life. It's called "My Story."
Smart was 14 years old in 2002, when Brian David Mitchell broke into her bedroom and forced her at knife point to go with him to his remote camp on a mountain. That mountain was near Salt Lake City where Smart lived with her devout Mormon family.
She was chained for the first few weeks of her captivity, raped almost daily during her captivity and used as a slave by Mitchell's wife, Wanda Barzee, who was also at the camp. Mitchell constantly threatened to kill Smart and her family if she betrayed him. At the same time, she had to endure his constant sermonizing about how he was a religious prophet and she was chosen to be his wife, and she should feel blessed to be close to him.
You were in upside down world where everything was like opposite. You know, like you're told that this is heaven. You're told that he's like the prophet and savior, that, you know, you're the chosen one. And you know that you're in hell. You know that he's crazy and evil and there's no one to share that with, like the only two people you have contact with or that you're allowed to speak with. Even when you're taken outside of the camp and you're in a place with other people, you know that you'll be killed. He's told you you'll be killed if you have any communication with any of them. So there's nobody to share the total crazy oppositeness of everything that's being done.
SMART: I really like the way you describe it as a completely upside down world. And that's exactly what it was. And it was hard not having someone there. It was hard thinking about it to myself and not, not being able to talk about it or confide in someone or vent to someone. That was hard. But I had something that I knew would never change: that was my family. I knew that I would never lose them, that their love for me would never fade or disappear and because of that I was able to keep going.
I made that decision when I made that first - the first realization that they had always loved me, the first morning I had been taken, I made the decision to do whatever I had to to survive. It didn't matter what it was, I would do whatever I had to. And that's how I based every decision after that. Am I going to survive? If I do this, will he kill me? If I don't do this, will he kill me? What is going to help me survive? And I basically had to set aside all of my, my feelings because I wouldn't have been able to make it had I dwelt on my emotions.
GROSS: Then he gave you and her and himself new names. Tell us about the names.
SMART: Well, he went through a progression of name changes and it was when he would have some kind of new direction from God, he'd come up with a new name. And eventually, when he came out and said that he was a servant of God, that he came out with his final name which was Immanuel, which was I, as he told me, meant God is with us. And then so that was his final name. And then his wife, Barzee, she went through a progression of names as well along - I mean her progression followed the same as Mitchell's did. And her ending name ended with Hepsiba. And she told me that her name meant: my delight is in thee. And then they gave me a new name because everything had to be changed. My complete identity had to be stripped and taken away from me. I couldn't have any connection to my family or my former life. And so the name they gave me is Shear-jashub, which was I want to say the second son, of Isaiah in the Bible. And they would tell me that that name meant a remnant will return because one day I would return to my family. I would return to the world but I wouldn't return alone. I would return with Mitchell and Barzee and I would stand alongside him and protect him and we would all come out together and cry repentance to the world.
GROSS: Wow. And, of course, I'm sure you were thrilled to have, you know, in addition to being stripped of your identity and given this new name - it's a male name, it's not even a female name.
SMART: Oh, I was overjoyed. I mean seriously, why would I want to go from Elizabeth to Shear-jashub?
GROSS: I don't mean to be flip about this, but like when you say to yourself what could possibly be worse than being a 14-year-old who is raped every day, the only thing I could think of is if you're raped every day by this guy who won't shut up. All he does is talk about himself, you know?
GROSS: And it's like honestly, like I don't mean to be flip but I thought like oh God, that's like then you're subjected to him talking about himself like all the time. And he's such a narcissist that he thinks that all of this like empty talk about himself and his like fake visions is actually meaningful.
SMART: It's hard to decide which was worse, the rape or the talking. I'm still debating that myself.
GROSS: How, I mean obviously, you weren't paying careful attention to what he was saying. But were you supposed to be nodding in agreement or acting as if like yes...
SMART: Acting as if what he was saying was the most...
GROSS: Revelatory?
SMART: Yes. The most revelatory words he could be speaking. Yes. I was. Because if I didn't he'd start all over and it just would be never-ending. I mean it already was never-ending, but it's like coming to a broken CD where it just says the same thing over and over again. It's to that point and then it goes back and repeats and repeats and repeats.
GROSS: Can...
SMART: And he'd get mad at me if I didn't listen.
GROSS: Do you mind if I'm asking you if his breath was terrible?
SMART: I don't think I've ever been asked that question before but, yes, yes it was.
GROSS: What kept you having faith in God and not feeling abandoned by the God you believe in when first of all, you're in - you feel abandoned? You know, you're alone with these two crazy people. You're being tortured by them. And also, your chief torturer is acting like he is God's prophet. And, of course, you know that's not true, but you're in this like ugly, evil world and all the talk about God is coming from - as you describe it - you know, like the face of Satan. So what kept you believing?
SMART: Well, from the time I was a little girl, I have always, always believed in a good and kind God. I remember when I was about seven years old, I went horseback riding and my horse escaped from me and it ran off down the mountainside, and I had to go after the horse. And on the way to find this horse, I got lost and I was so scared. I mean I was only seven years old with a big imagination. All I could think of was, oh my goodness, there's going to be bears coming out, there are going to be wolves coming out, I'm going to be eaten, I'm not going to see my mom again. I was thinking all of these terrible things. And my mom and my dad had always told me if you're ever in trouble, if you ever need help, pray. And so I remember praying as that seven-year-old girl. And when I finished praying I felt better and I felt like, like there was a direction I was supposed to take.
And I remember going in that direction and finding the mud tracks of the horse and being able to find my way down the mountain. And so from that very early age I've always felt that God is there for me and that he knows who I am and that he loves me. I mean that was one of my first experiences in life where I really felt like there is a God out there. So when I was kidnapped I still felt that same way and I remember I would pray to him and ask him to protect me, ask him to help me find a way home, help me find a way to get back to my family. And it was hard but I never felt like he abandoned me.
My grandpa, my mom's dad, he had passed away just a few days before I was kidnapped. And while at the time he passed away I couldn't understand why did he pass away? Why did he have to die? But then during my kidnapping I remember I used to feel like he was there with me. I don't know if you've ever experienced that feeling where someone you love or someone you're really close to, they're, you feel like they're in the room and then you turn around and they're not. I mean that's just how I felt. While I was kidnapped I used to feel like he was there and I'd turn around but I didn't see him, but I just felt like he was there with me. And so when I had received feelings like that then I would feel like it was going to be OK. But he had died so that he could be with me during my kidnapping because he could be more comfort to me and more use to me if he were dead and he were able to be with me that if he were alive.
GROSS: My guest is Elizabeth Smart. Her new memoir about her kidnapping is called "My Story." More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Elizabeth Smart and she's written a new book about her nine month ordeal after she was kidnapped by Brian Mitchell and raped repeatedly, kept away from the world. And he's behind bars now, as is his wife, who was part of this.
For the first six weeks of your captivity you were chained. And then after that, you and your captor - Brian Mitchell and his wife Wanda Barzee - would occasionally go down the mountain into town, into Salt Lake, and basically shoplift and get some provisions to bring back to the camp in the mountain. And in order to disguise yourselves, you and Wanda Barzee wore veils. And you had a veil that even covered your eyes.
And I mean there's a description, I can't remember if this was when you were in California, where you eventually went or whether you were still in Utah. But like you're in a Walmart wearing these like dirty robes with like a dirty veil over your face and you're not really a part - these clothes are not a part of any religion. It's not like, you know, you're a Muslim wearing a full body veil or anything. This is just these like filthy robes that, you know, she sewed together herself. And no one's saying anything. And the way describe, you know, Brian Mitchell is looking, it just sounds like most people would see the three of you and think something weird is going on here. Did you expect somebody would think that?
SMART: I thought somebody would think that, but at the same time I think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. I mean that was right after 9/11 had happened. It was at a time when even more so than now that religious - I don't know the right word to use, but where religion was a very hot topic. And there were so many people from different religions that were being mistreated because of how they looked or because some extremist group did something terrible. I mean it was a hard time. And by looking a certain way Mitchell found that people were a bit more standoffish, that they didn't want to get too close and that it was really just another way of manipulating people around him - getting them to stay away, getting them to want to avoid us.
I mean it was not uncommon for us to walk down a street and there'd be people walking towards us, then they'd stop, cross the street, walk around us and then cross the street again and come back to the same side they were on just because they didn't want to pass us that close in the street. And so he used these - he used different methods and this was just one of them of getting what he wanted.
GROSS: What stopped you from when you were out in public - on those occasions you were out in public with him from hollering, I'm Elizabeth Smart? Because everybody knew your name. Everybody, I mean it was such a kind of famous kidnapping case.
SMART: I have been chained up with actual chains. But I have also been chained up with words. And I can tell you, words are so much stronger than actual chains. I had been told every single day that if I did anything, if I said anything that I would be killed. If he didn't kill me, he would kill my family. I was 14 years old. That's all I knew. Now - now I might look back at me like, yeah, hmm, there are things that can be done. There are things - there are ways that he wouldn't be able to get to my family.
But I was only 14 years old and I didn't see that at that time. All I saw was a man who had successfully kidnapped me, basically ripped everything I knew and loved away from me, and stripped me down till I was nothing more than really a shell. And then he tried to fill up with whatever he wanted to, although, I might add, he was not successful at it.
GROSS: There's a long back story to how the police finally figured out what was going on and found the three of you. But that's all in the book. It's a kind of complicated story. But you had gone to California, the three of you, and then you convinced him to go back to Utah, which was really smart. But he insisted you had to wear a disguise. And I want you to describe the disguise that Brian Mitchell and Wanda Barzee created for you.
SMART: The disguise was - well, because he knew if we tried to hitchhike back in our robes, hitchhike back in our robes, that nobody would pick us up. We looked too strange. So he had us go to different homeless sites where we had been hiding out and we went through and we found different clothes. So the clothes we found were dirty, smelly, old, gross.
And then he said, well, we need to find some way to disguise your face and your hair. Maybe we should dye it. Maybe we should cut it. That eventually was thrown out and he came to the conclusion that I should wear a wig. Well, he's not the - I wouldn't describe him as a quality kind of guy. He wanted something that was quick and easy.
And so we went to a, I want to say a Dollar Store in California where they were selling wigs and I remember looking at him and just thinking are you kidding me? That's gray hair.
SMART: What's wrong with you? I clearly look like a young girl even if I do have a gray wig on. Nobody's going to think I'm old. But we found a wig that maybe had a, I don't know, two more strands of brown hair than the rest. And he bought the wig and then he picked up a pair of sunglasses. Well, he told me to choose and I remember, I was like these are terrible choices. There's just not a good choice here.
But eventually picking up a pair with his approval - well, that he had definitely had some input on - and I remember putting them on and they were just lopsided, crooked on my face and I was like, oh, great. I am in a nasty gray wig and crooked sunglasses. I look crazy.
GROSS: Which was helpful, right?
SMART: Which probably was helpful, actually.
GROSS: The police - I don't want to get into a long story because it's kind of complicated, but somebody tipped off the police that these two people - that you might be Elizabeth Smart and they might be your captors. And the police came. And so one cop starts questioning you and asking you are you Elizabeth Smart and you're afraid to say that you are. And then, fortunately, one of the cops says you have to take her separately; can't you see she's afraid of this man?
You can't question her in front of him. And that's when you were able to say that you were Elizabeth Smart. And it made me think you had been stopped by the police once before that. I wish they'd thought of it then.
SMART: I did wish that they had thought of it then, but they didn't. But thanks heavens that these policemen saw that and that they did separate me and that they did eventually rescue me and reunite me with my family.
GROSS: They rescued you and the first thing they did was handcuff you and put you in the police car. Were you surprised to be in handcuffs when you were rescued?
SMART: Oh, absolutely. I thought that, I mean, I thought that I was guilty. I thought - well, I thought that they thought that I was guilty and I remember just thinking wait a second. I'm the victim. What are you doing?
GROSS: What went through your mind when you were separated from your tormentor?
SMART: Well, because I was handcuffed at the time I thought I was going to prison. But then I thought, well, wait a second. I mean, compared with where I've been the last nine months, prison doesn't actually sound so bad. And by that point I was brought into a small room inside one of the smaller police stations and there was no windows and I was told I could take off the disguise.
And I took it off and that's when I was reunited with my dad. That's when the door came flying open and my dad came running into the room and just swooped me up in just the biggest hug you could imagine. And in that moment, when he was hugging me, I knew that nobody would ever be able to hurt me again. Nobody would ever be able to make me feel the way that these two people - my two captors - had made me feel.
And how they hurt me the last nine months. I knew that no matter what lay ahead that it would be OK. Because my dad was going to be there; he was going to stand next to me and he'd never, ever abandon me.
GROSS: My guest is Elizabeth Smart. Her new memoir about her kidnapping is called "My Story." We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
GROSS: My guest is Elizabeth Smart. Her new memoir about being kidnapped in 2002 is called "My Story." Smart now heads the Elizabeth Smart Foundation which tries to stop predatory crimes against children and, through the program known as Rad Kids, teach children to resist predators.
You write that you'd always been very bashful about your body and your body had been exposed to just, like, the worst horrors because you were raped so many times by your kidnapper. How hard was it to learn to be comfortable with your body again and also to grow into sexuality? I mean, you were 14 when you were kidnapped and this is an era where you're slowly - or maybe for some people not so slowly - becoming sexualized.
SMART: Well, when I came back the thought of ever entering into a relationship with a man - I wasn't ready for that. But at the same time, I mean, I did want to date. I did want to have boyfriends. I did want to have, you know, a boy come up my stairs and bring me a bouquet of flowers and me have my makeup on and a new outfit. And I did want all those things.
And I'm just happy that little girls don't date middle aged men because I would've had a real problem with that. Because this man was a middle aged man. But there's a difference. I mean, I felt like I'd been denied young boys, teenage - that sounds so bad. OK. I had been denied age appropriate boys for me at that time. So when I came back I was excited to go out with age appropriate boys.
GROSS: And you're married now.
SMART: Yes.
GROSS: To a man you met when you were doing your mission in France.
SMART: Yes.
GROSS: And he's Scottish. And I was wondering, like, did he know about the whole Elizabeth Smart story? It was such a big story in the United States. I have no idea if it made the news headlines in Scotland.
SMART: Well, he's actually two years younger than me, so whether or not it made the news headlines there, I don't know because he didn't pay attention. So when he first saw me and he first met me, he didn't know my history or my background. He just thought, oh, she's pretty. Oh, I'd like to meet her. I mean, we were around many other missionaries that filled him in on who I was and what my background was.
But, I mean, that's always been nice knowing that he wanted to meet me and that he initially liked me for me and not for history or notoriety or anything else.
GROSS: Do you think about, like, if you become a mother if you'll be able to sleep at night with your child in another room? Do you know what I mean? Like, if you'll be so overprotective or worried about your child because of what happened to you.
SMART: Well, one thing I can say for sure is that my children will be going through the Rad Kids program.
SMART: And I probably will be obnoxious at times. I probably will. I can admit that. But at the same time, I mean, I want them to live their lives. I will want them to be happy. I will want them to make their own choices and have their own experiences and experience the consequences that come with their choices. So, yes, I will want to prepare them the very best I can.
I will want to make sure that they know every single day how much I love them, but at the same time I don't want to stop them from living their life.
GROSS: Your mother, as you described, had given you the advice to put this behind you, don't let your kidnapper take more of your life than he's already taken. Live your life, be happy, do the things that you want to do. And you've tried your best to live that advice. It's more difficult to control your dreams when you're sleeping and I'm wondering whether you have any nightmares about that period.
SMART: I guess I'm really lucky because I sleep like a rock. I rarely dream. I mean, I have never had a nightmare about what happened.
GROSS: Wow. You're really lucky, yeah.
SMART: Yeah. I'd just say that's a blessing.
GROSS: Elizabeth Smart, thank you so much for talking with us. And congratulations on having a life. A good life.
SMART: Thank you.
GROSS: Yeah.
SMART: Thank you for having me.
GROSS: My pleasure. Elizabeth Smart's new memoir is called "My Story." You can read a very emotional excerpt of the book on our website. It's the part where the police finally discover her and her captor but she's initially afraid to reveal her real identity. We also have the audio book version of that passage which she reads. That's at freshair.npr.org. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.


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What is new?
Attorney Elizabeth Erickson Kameen, President of Pike County Bar Association has announced the donation of $10,000.00 to the Center for Developmental Disabilities (CDD) of Pike County.
She stated "The Bar Association is grateful for the opportunity to support children with developmental disabilities and delays and to provide the much needed support to the children of our community." She praised the bar association and its members for their continuing generosity in our community. "The generosity of our members when it comes to giving to the community is truly heartwarming" commented President Erickson Kameen.
Why is this important?
The Pike Bar Association's contribution will be utilized for the CDD's innovative educational and therapeutic programs for children with developmental disabilities and delays ages 0-5. The Pike County Bar Association is an active community based organization which serves the lawyers, judges and the public of Pike County, Pennsylvania, by nurturing the highest professional and ethical standards for attorneys; providing continuing legal education; encouraging collegiality and assisting members in the practice of law.
Ann Gillerlane, CDD Executive Director, stated, "The CDD is honored to receive this extremely generous donation from the Pike County Bar Association (PCBA). It has been an extremely challenging year for us with budget cuts and delayed funding."
What do they do?
About the Center for Developmental Disabilities of Pike County, Ltd.:
• Founded over 40 years ago
• Provides educational, therapeutic, and family support services for children with developmental delays and disabilities
• Serves ages from birth to kindergarten.
• Reaching 200 families a year in Pike County.
• Located at 101 Pocono Drive, Suites 2 &3, Milford, PA 18337.
• Phone number (570) 296-4919
• Web site address cddkids.org
For more information on the Pike County Bar Association, visit them online at www.pikebar.com.


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Main Site - :: Why Won't God Heal Amputees? ::
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Religions need books because they don't have gods.
To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.
The claim that cold "doesn't exist" because according to the laws of physics it's merely "the absence of heat" amounts to semantic game-playing. Heat is a noun, the name of a physical phenomenon, a form of energy. Cold is an adjective, a description. To say that something is cold, or that we feel cold, or even that we're going out in "the cold," is not to assert that cold "exists." It's simply a way of describing the relative temperature of things. (It's helpful to recognize that the proper antonym for cold isn't heat; it's hot.)The same applies to light (in this context a noun denoting a form of energy), and dark (an adjective). It's true that when we say, "It's dark outside," the phenomenon we're actually describing is a relative absence of light, but that doesn't mean that by speaking of "the dark" we mistake it for a thing that "exists" in the same sense that light does. We're simply describing the degree of illumination we perceive.So it's a philosophical parlor trick to posit heat and cold (or light and dark) as a pair of opposite entities only to "reveal" that the second term doesn't really refer to an entity at all, but merely the absence of the first.
Yep, you can tell when a story like this is made up. Because the professor's science "answers" sound exactly like what a christian with no real knowledge of the subject would make up.
Also, no professor would challenge students on their beliefs in a science class. That's not his or her job.
Pianodwarf, weren't you the one who posted the version of this with the commie gay professor and the students saluting the bald eagle at the end? Could you repost that one? Pretty please?
pianodwarf, that story is so good it should be illegal. Hope I have grandkids someday so I can read it as a bedtime story.
It's not PD's it's the mailbag.
I found this short story whose aim is to prove that God is real. Can you please write as to why this is illogical?
Have you ever wondered that if God is good, why is there evil? This is the perfect answer.
A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, 'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.'The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'
'Yes sir,' the student says.'So you believe in God?'
'Absolutely.''Is God good?''Sure! God's good.''Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?''Yes.''Are you good or evil?''The Bible says I'm evil.'
The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!' He considers for a moment.
'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?''Yes sir, I would.''So you're good...!''I wouldn't say that.''But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?'The student remains silent.
'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?''Er...yes,' the student says.'Is Satan good?'The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.''Then where does Satan come from?'The student falters. 'From God''That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?''Yes, sir.''Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?''Yes.''So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred?Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.''So who created them?'
The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question.'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,'he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'
'No sir. I've never seen Him.''Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?''No, sir, I have not.''Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus[1] or smelt your Jesus?[2] Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?''No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.''Yet you still believe in him?''Yes.''According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?''Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.''Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.' 1. Luckily for Strawman Professor, this kid isn't Catholic. 2. Ewww. After 2,000 years, all that dried blood is probably smellin' pretty rude.
At the back of the room another student stands quietly for a moment before asking a question of His[3] own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?''Yes,' the professor replies. 'There's heat.' 3. What is this? A capital 'H' Has the Lord Himself deigned to make an appearance? Proof at last!
'And is there such a thing as cold?''Yes, son, there's cold too.''No sir, there isn't.'
The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,[4] unlimited heat,[5] white heat,[6] a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.''Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.' 4. Boy, I just love it when Christians get technical! 5. Actually, no, there's no such thing as "unlimited" heat. Think about what the term "unlimited" means, young Christian. 6. I hope you realize that when it is said that something is "white hot," that doesn't mean it's producing white heat.
Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.[7]'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?' 7. OK, who's got the big, heavy, steel pen? *CLANK!* 'Oh, I'm sorry, that was my pen. Trust me, you don't want to be around when I drop a book.'
'Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word.''In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'
'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?''You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.'
'Science uses electricity and magnetism, but we have never seen, much less fully understood either one.
'To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'
'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey??
'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'
'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.'The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.'
The student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'
To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'
Piano, can we mail the guy who sent this in and let him know that he has been given a lot of responses?
Quote from: Anfauglir on March 28, 2013, 07:49:33 AMPiano, can we mail the guy who sent this in and let him know that he has been given a lot of responses?I've never done that before... it's not standard practice. I doubt it would make much of a difference.
Yeah, this has all the hallmarks of a drive-by posting. I doubt the originator thinks it will miraculously convert any atheists, or that he / she even intends to respond. They're just tossing their shit against the wall for the puerile pleasure it gives them.
Once, there was a Christian student at a state university who had a strong belief in his religion. He was challenged by a professor in a philosophy class to support his beliefs, and through a series of clever arguments, was able to silence the professor's criticism. After that accomplishment, he was feeling pretty good about himself, and so he decided to try the same thing with his science professor, who did not accept religious explanations for science.So, after the lecture, the student asked to speak to the teacher, since he didn't want to take up classroom time with a non-classroom subject. Once they'd gone to his office, the student said, "Professor, is there such a thing as heat?"And the professor answered, "Yes, there is."So the student asked his second question, "And is there such a thing as cold?"The professor thought for a moment, then said, "Yes, there is.""No, sir, there isn't." When the professor looked askance at the student, he clarified by saying, "You can have lots of heat, more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat, or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further than that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than -458 degrees. We can measure heat because heat is energy, but cold is just the absence of heat."The professor smiles slightly after a moment, then says, "Let me ask you a question. What do you mean when you say it's hot?"The student, expecting the teacher to be confused, even upset by his argument, said, "Well, hot means that it's hot." He flushed slightly, because he could tell this wasn't a good answer, so the professor took pity on him."You mean something like the temperature is too high for you to be comfortable, right?" The student nodded, and the professor continued. "Now, you've known people who thought it was too hot when you thought it was only warm, or even that it was comfortable, correct? That's because the term hot is relative, a comparison of the existing situation to what the person is used to. We use cold in the same way."In science, we describe things as hot or cold based on a comparison to their environment, or to other things. The Sun is hot compared to Earth, snow is cold compared to lava, and so on."The student sat quietly for a moment, collecting his thoughts, so the professor asked, "Was there anything else?""Ah, what about darkness? Is there such a thing as darkness?"The professor thought a moment, then said, "Yes, in the same sense as cold. We measure light in lumens, but we use terms such as dark or bright to describe the relative illumination of an area compared to what we're used to."The student could tell that attempting to argue that darkness was the absence of something wouldn't fly here, so he mentally groped for the next part of his argument. After a moment, he had it. "Okay. Have we ever seen electricity and magnetism? We can see their effects; I can see a lightning bolt, hear thunder, feel shocked, and so on, but we can't see those things themselves, can we?"The professor gives him a stern look. "First off, thunder is caused by lightning, but it is not an inherent property of lightning. It happens because of air molecules which, forced to vacate the area where lightning passes through, come back together to fill the vacuum created by the lightning's passage."Second, we do see electromagnetism, every day of our lives. It's why we can see at all, because light is a form of electromagnetic radiation. It's true that we don't see the electrons themselves, because they're too small, but we can certainly see their effects, such as a lightning discharge.""But, professor, if you can't see something, only its effects, how can you be sure that it exists at all? How can you be sure that something else isn't causing it?"The professor smiles gently. "Because if that something else existed, there would be evidence for it, that we could detect and measure. For electromagnetism, we have a magnetic field, an electrical current, and the fact that wrapping an electrical current around a magnet makes the magnet's field stronger, and also the fact that one end of a magnetic field attracts the opposite end of a different field, while repelling the same end. We also have the fact that atoms - which we can observe, say with an electron microscope - are attracted to some atoms and repelled from others, in a similar fashion."If this other thing existed, it would have to account for those facts, those observations, in order to be a better explanation than electromagnetism. Furthermore, it would have to have qualities that couldn't be explained by electromagnetism, but that were clearly caused by it and not something else."The student, stunned, sat quietly for a time, and finally, the professor asked, "Perhaps, if I knew the point you were working towards, it would make things easier?""Ah, yes. Well, I am trying to show that science has to take things on faith just like religion does.""I see. Like arguing that since you can't prove someone has a brain because nobody else in the room has been able to see, hear, feel, taste, or smell it, you have to take it on faith that they have one?" The student looked shocked, for this had been one of the key points he had made to his philosophy professor. Before he could muster a response, the science professor continued."But we can prove that a person has a brain, simply by giving them a MRI or CAT scan. We have ways to detect the existence of a brain that do not involve the five basic sensory organs. Furthermore, even if we do not do those things, we can still demonstrate that it is vanishingly unlikely that they do not have a brain; they are able to reason and think, which requires a brain; we have never once found someone that possessed the faculty of reason that did not have a brain. To demonstrate otherwise, you would have to show that a person definitely did not have a brain, yet was still able to reason or think."It's true that science cannot provide absolute certainty, because we can't examine everything in the universe using it. But we can test explanations using it against everything we can think of, in order to be reasonably certain of their correctness. Take evolution. It's true that we have many gaps in the fossil records, because most organisms do not turn into fossils in the first place. But the fossils we do have support it."Our DNA supports it - our DNA is more than 99% identical to other primate species, 90% identical to other mammals, 75% identical to reptiles, 60% identical to insects, 55% identical to plants, and still 40% identical to bacteria. Natural selection - the tendency of organisms which are better suited to their environment to survive and reproduce - supports it. The list goes on and on."There was a long pause, and then the professor said, "Was there anything else?" The student thought a moment, then shook his head.
So, even a strawman in a tract can kick Christian ass....Strawman atheist 2, Christians 0. Let's see if Squirmy's first relief pitcher can save the day:...So, even though Strawman Atheist has lousy form in this last bit, he's still managed to take down a second Christian. Strawman Atheist 3, Christians 0....On the other hand, Strawman's arguments actually go to the evidence against Yahweh's existence (he doesn't heal, he doesn't do anything that produces empirical evidence, he doesn't do anything about evil/is responsible for creating it (hence is not good, as claimed). Boss Christian's arguments never provide any evidence for the existence of Yahweh. They are designed instead, to muddy the water and try to "explain" why the Cosmos looks exactly as we would expect it to if--by boss Christian's own definitions--Yahweh is absent. Isn't it fair to say that the author of this tract got his ass whupped by his own Strawman?