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Tuesday, August 21, 2007
NEXTEL Cup At Michigan - Tuesday
NASCAR will once again try to get in the NEXTEL Cup race in Michigan today at 10AM. This thread is for posts while the race is in-progress. Please limit your posts to comments about the TV coverage following the rules located on the right side of the main page.
If this works, we will begin offering an in-progress page for the remaining NEXTEL Cup Series races. Thanks.
56 comments:
- bevo said...
So far it's not not going to be on ESPN360.
- August 21, 2007 at 7:28 AM
- Kevin in Indy said...
Jayski had a post saying that it will be on ESPN360, which is blocked at my office.....not that I would try to watch it or anything.
- August 21, 2007 at 8:25 AM
- cwebs said...
Well, it looks like SPEED may have indeed departed from MIS. At 9am, an episode of "Payback" appeared as scheduled. Unless something happens at 9:30, I'm guessing there won't be any further SPEED coverage from MIS this week. While this decision is understandable, they really should have made their intentions clear either last night or this morning via TV or on their website. Their loyal fans don't deserve to be left in the dark!
- August 21, 2007 at 9:10 AM
- Anonymous said...
I don't find it "understandable" at all.
If their job at SPEED is to cover live racing (or the events leading up to the races), then they, like news people, need to suck it up when things go long like this. It's a hazard of the job and dumping out shows a lack of commitment.
The race teams are there; why isn't the TV crew?
- August 21, 2007 at 9:42 AM
- Matt said...
SPEED has to get all their crews and equipment to Bristol for Tomm's Truck race. I don't think you can blame them at all. Who knows how long it takes to break down and transport the Raceday set too.
- August 21, 2007 at 9:48 AM
- cwebs said...
I think there are valid reasons for them to leave, as I mentioned in my post in yesterday's thread. Like "matt" said, they probably need to get personnel and equipment down to Bristol. Also, I think it would be hard to do a meaningful pre-race show with the scheduled 10am start time for the race. After the race is over, I'm sure the teams will be scurrying to leave MIS as well. Nobody will have the patience for an extended post-race show.
My biggest complaint is that SPEED never informed their loyal fans of their intentions. The least they could do is put a note on the main page of their website explaining the situation...
- August 21, 2007 at 9:57 AM
- SonicAD said...
kevin in indy: it's also available for free on NASCAR.com, There should be a link on the front page.
- August 21, 2007 at 10:11 AM
- bevo said...
Watching on HotPass. The long shots show how bad the fog is. This could end up being a mess with the spotters and the drivers going whole hog to get the half way point.
- August 21, 2007 at 10:14 AM
- Anonymous said...
NASCAR is screwing this one up big time. No way they'd feel safe racing like this if it was Sunday. Should make absolutely no difference on a Tuesday with respect to driver saftey.
- August 21, 2007 at 10:20 AM
- PKRWUD said...
I respect all they have to weigh when making their decisions, but why didn't they just wait an hour for the fog to lift, rather than start and stop this way?
- August 21, 2007 at 10:27 AM
- cwebs said...
Is it me, or is Jamie Little just a little too perky at times?
I wish someone at ESPN would tell her to watch some tapes of RaceDay. Wendy Venturini could be a role model.
WV = Pleasingly Perky
JL = Cloyingly Perky
- August 21, 2007 at 10:34 AM
- bevo said...
Don't imagine there will be any in-car camera shots with the low ceiling
- August 21, 2007 at 10:34 AM
- Anonymous said...
They've had some in-car shots all morning...yet sometimes they aren't able to because of the ceiling. Anyone know why this is?
- August 21, 2007 at 10:38 AM
- SophiaZ123 said...
I understand SPEED having to leave..they are not set up for multiple race coverages...would've been nice had they said something but JR and the gang can only tell us what's "allowed" from the SPEED boss.
I agree the fog is horrible and you can't see on the tv..nor spotters or NASCAR tower...um...why not just CHANGE the race time until 11? It was so soupy when I tuned in.
Just hope it's a safe race and the fog lifts soon.
Hope you folks working during the day can catch the race online or at least LISTEN.
I never heard of ESPN360? I take it that's an internet thing ?
- August 21, 2007 at 10:57 AM
- Anonymous said...
I'll tell you what, I'm already tired of hearing Rusty say, "aero loose." He really needs to learn some new phrases.
- August 21, 2007 at 11:05 AM
- Anonymous said...
JM strikes again
- August 21, 2007 at 11:06 AM
- Anonymous said...
...that and "I really don't like how high that nose is riding" :)
- August 21, 2007 at 11:07 AM
- SophiaZ123 said...
two things..yes, Jamie Little is WAY TOO PERKY (she has driven me nuts in IRL for long time) It's one thing to be pleasant as somebody else mentioned but...
THANK GOD somebody else is tired of Rusty's "aero loose" For years, I have heard most say a car got loose. WHY does he say aero loose.
But I TELL YOU WHAT, I do believe he is cutting back on the I TELL YOU WHAT 's. See if anybody else notices that.
Maybe his new mantra to hang onto is the aero loose. Ok, ESPN JUST CUT OFF THE RACE EARLY AS THEY WENT TO COMMERCIAL???
THEY DO THIS A LOT..but they were in MID SENTENCE&^%$#@!*!&!%#!^$^!#^%
JUST ONE WEEK, I would like the NASCAR POWERS to ONLY WATCH NASCAR from ESPN tv.
- August 21, 2007 at 11:18 AM
- cwebs said...
And, another restart is missed because ESPN was still running commercials. This is turning into a trend with them now! Is it that difficult to time the commercial breaks properly???
- August 21, 2007 at 11:26 AM
- SophiaZ123 said...
Regarding the missed restarts, I notice on my TWarner that ESPN is chronically POORLY TIMED for commercials in leaving the race and coming back.
I posted this on a huge message board and others across the country had the same thing...Especially during the BUSCH race so we will see the same deal all day today.
ESPN just can NOT keep a timer for racing. This is never going to work.
- August 21, 2007 at 11:31 AM
- bevo said...
SophiaZ123 -
There's a difference between a car being loose and aero loose. That's what the Car Of Tomorrow is designed to get rid of, aero loose.
Rusty does love the term though :)
- August 21, 2007 at 11:33 AM
- Anonymous said...
There are clearly more fans at MIS on a Tuesday than there were on a Sunday for an IRL race. Not surprising, but just an observation!
- August 21, 2007 at 12:00 PM
- SophiaZ123 said...
Thanks for the explanation..I am still learning about NASCAR just a few years into it...but Rusty has seemed to have claimed this term for his own.
I still have not heard "I TELL YOU WHAT"
Think somebody told him of that much overused phrase?!
Maybe that cat can learn from criticism.
Meow Hiss!! PPHHHttt. :-0
But really, that is a good thing..unless a bad habit is called to one's attention, you may not be aware...
Sophia says in a moment of graciousness.
P.S. regarding the IRL race...yes this is why they lost MIS race I guess according to Robin Miller. It's really pitiful the small crowds and the mess with IRL but from what I read, they do not make things fan friendly.
But I feel badly for the drivers when you see empty seats in IRL.
- August 21, 2007 at 12:04 PM
- Anonymous said...
"Ohh and trouble off of turn 55!"
Cracked me up!
- August 21, 2007 at 12:09 PM
- SophiaZ123 said...
Waahh!! Mikey had a spin and had it saved and Nemechek hit him.....bummer.
Say what you want but I was happy he qualified so well...he needed a good week.
Darn it.
- August 21, 2007 at 12:11 PM
- Anonymous said...
That was a bad situation for two teams that couldn't afford it.
- August 21, 2007 at 12:19 PM
- SophiaZ123 said...
Space shuttle almost on the ground
(Not to be a racing interruptus!!0
But FYI
- August 21, 2007 at 12:31 PM
- jfs-va said...
Let's see, how much time can we spend inside JR's car.
- August 21, 2007 at 12:58 PM
- cwebs said...
Note to ESPN - Nobody cares for your draft-tracker gimmick. Really, it's not as cool as you think it is!!! Now, if you insist on continuing its use, could you at least attempt to make it reflect reality? When the second car moves around and takes the position, the air coming off the back of that car isn't clean (blue)!!!
For crying out loud, they treat this gimmick as if it's presenting real-time scientific data when it's obviously just the result of some graphics person intrpreting reality and "painting" the colors on the screen as they think it should look. If you're going to play that game, you should at least attempt to make it look right...
- August 21, 2007 at 1:30 PM
- cwebs said...
Not trying to hog all the comments here, but I can't resist.
Why in the world does ESPN feel they need to go to commercial while the race is under green with less than 15 laps to go? Ridiculous!!!
- August 21, 2007 at 1:35 PM
- Ari said...
i think ESPN deserves a pat on the back for the split screen at the end of the race so we could see the race for the lead and the race for 4th place at the same time. Maybe they are taking these comments to heart and are trying to respond a little bit.
- August 21, 2007 at 2:01 PM
- jfs-va said...
I agree with cwebs about the draft tracker. It really is silly in my opinion.
On the other hand, showing the pit crew changing the carb on the 41 was nice. That's the stuff I want to see, not some cute graphics.
And as ari said, the split screen there at the end was nice.
- August 21, 2007 at 2:07 PM
- Anonymous said...
NASCAR needs to do something about the chase format. 13th is over 160 points back of 12th. This isn't good at all.
They need to immediatly put 5 points between 11-14 and have a three race chase to get into the chase!
They've always made up rules as they went along. This will be no different.
Even if I wasn't a red blooded Jr. fan, I'd still want this to happen.
- August 21, 2007 at 2:13 PM
- darbar said...
The announcers on ESPN are morons. All during the race they kept messing up the Busch brother's names. Guys, Kurt is the one in the 2 Miller car and Kyle is in the 5 Kellogs car. I cannot believe they can't get them straight.
They missed a lot of stuff because of their cameras and they never showed the debris that causes so many cautions. AND, Dave Blaney had a great race, but he's ignored altogether. They're so in love with Jr, who probably won't make the chase, that they forget there are 42 other guys with interesting and worthwhile stories.
- August 21, 2007 at 2:44 PM
- Anonymous said...
ok..different computer so I, SOPHIA, am anon again.
Many good comments here.
ESPN GET RID OF THE PSYCHEDELIC DRAFT GIMMICK THING. it's a HUGE wasted of time and takes away from LIVE RACE VIEWING, HATE IT.
STill lousy camera work and they SWITCH TOO FAST even tho you can clearly spot a car getting lose or ready to wreck.
I also enjoyed seeing the carb change and the split screen, so kudos for that.
I AM A FAN of many drivers including JR. BUT LAY OFF OF JR, please. Nobody feels the pressure on the boy more than HE does and he can NOT blow his nose without it becoming a MAJOR NEWS story.
I also enjoyed the after race time and the show with Boris and Burr. Showed a great detailed replay of the Waltrip wreck..GREAT DRIVING to avoid him by Happy and Ryan....though I am still confused why Nemecheck did not have a better heads up to avoid it...to my eyes, it appeared he had room to navigate. Maybe he was changing the radio station?! :-)
I was half listening as I fussed around the house but I swear Rusty IS cutting back on the "I tell you what"....Did anybody here him say that?
- August 21, 2007 at 2:59 PM
- Anonymous said...
During the on-board camera replay of Waltrip's spin, did anyone else hear the spotter telling him to "hold the brake, now go!" and then get crushed by the #08?
Jimmy Spencer would've caught that!
- August 21, 2007 at 3:32 PM
- matt said...
There's one big problem with the ESPN announce crew-They just talk. And talk. And talk. And talk. They are so busy talking they miss 90% of what is actually going on in the race. And no one ever interupts someone else to say something, either to correct him or describe action. They just let him talk. And once again, just like at Indy, ESPN and Rusty were so obsessed with DraftTrack that everytime a driver got loose, it was because of air. No one can just have a loose a car. The air must cause the car to be loose. And how bout Rusty saying Brian Vickers can't drive a car so loose and should get it fixed? Why does Rusty feel that the way he drove a car should be the way everyone drives a car? I'm sorry, but I'm sick of Rusty and we still have 13 races to go.
- August 21, 2007 at 4:08 PM
- Ryan said...
Is anyone else here annoyed by how obsessed ESPN is with John Paul Montoya, TNT and FOX never mentioned him every 5 seconds like ESPN does.
- August 21, 2007 at 6:18 PM
- Anonymous said...
I remember Fox talking about Juan Pablo and TNT because it annoyed my brother.
And he rarely gets annoyed by things and is just GRATEFUL the race is free and not 30 minutes a week like it used to be before he started watching it (never was shown live in the 60's and 70's)
He is not like his sister, the critic.
- August 21, 2007 at 6:48 PM
- Anonymous said...
The boys in the booth for ESPN are no better at this than three race fans sitting at home and watching one TV would be. They routinely miss what's going on until it's replayed for them, at which time they suddenly take note; they never seem to know what caused a wreck unless it was on the air when it happened; and, good Lord, you would NEVER know Rusty had even driven a Cup car if all you knew about him was what he says during the broadcast.
- August 21, 2007 at 6:54 PM
- stricklinfan82 said...
good ESPN:
- They showed us every car cross the finish line at the end of the race.
- They got rid of the infield studio. Yes I know it was only because of the postponement of the race but is it just me or was the broadcast actually better without Suzy and Brad adding their two cents multiple times throughout the afternoon? Without the studio Dr. Punch showed the highlights and then the announcers got right back to calling the action. Simpler and a lot easier on the ears.
- Not leaving the air immediately after the checkered flag. I'm glad they stuck around until the top of the hour and took the time to provide several post-race interviews.
Bad ESPN:
- They missed a restart, just like they did several times at Watkins Glen.
- The in-race reporter needs to go away. They can only do it during caution flags, so instead of using up their commercial time under yellow they spend the yellow flag laps talking to the featured driver and crew chief and force us to miss green flag racing later in the broadcast when they finally do have to fit in those commercial breaks.
- Enough of the draft tracks already! It's the same exact illustration every time, just with different cars. The car behind drafts the dirty air, pulls out into clean air, and makes the pass. We get it already! We don't need the air to be color-coded and we don't need the same point repeated over and over again every time a pass takes place.
- The last commercial break. Okay, I get the idea that ESPN has a certain amount of commercial time they need to get in before the race ends. How about doing a better job of fulfilling those obligations in plenty of time to show the end of the race without commercial interruption. I could not believe ESPN went to commercial with 13 or 14 to go as a wild battle for positions was going on right after a restart. Sure enough they missed the Gordon-Kenseth incident. Had the race stayed green they would have returned from the break with what, only 7 laps to go? That's unacceptable. As I said, get rid of the in-race reporter and use up that commercial time during the yellow flag laps!
- August 21, 2007 at 7:10 PM
- cwebs said...
OK, here's my take on ESPN's performance today. I'll try to keep it as breif as possible:
Other than the overbearingly perky nature of Jamie Little, the early coverage during the green/yellow laps and during the red flag was pretty good. They made use of the time by snagging some decent interviews.
Rusty's don't-laugh-at-a-hearse line about Harvick's JPM comments was actually pretty funny.
The "in-race reporter" gimmick is usually totally useless, but Biffle was pretty good in the role this time. They never went back to him later in the race, though.
Rusty's overall performance was reasonably tolerable. There was a noticeable and welcome lack of "Tell-You-What's".
No Kolber/Daugherty foolishness.
They managed to show a nicely framed shot of most of the field crossing the finish line at the end.
Came back from commercial too late and missed restart on lap 34.
Very little discussion of any cars that either weren't in the top five, or weren't displaying the number eight.
I didn't catch any mention of who got the lucky dog on any of the cautions.
Strange dearth of coverage from the garage area. What ever happened to Mark Martin? Why no interview with Joe Nemechek after his wreck with Waltrip? What happened to Paul Menard?
I already talked about the dreaded Draft-Track earlier. Suffice it to say - it's useless!!!
There was debris caution with about 25 laps to go, and each team had to make a critical decision on whether to pit, and how many tires to take. Sadly, the announcers never set this up properly for the viewers before the cars started coming down pit road. Then, after the pitstops were finished, they couldn't even be bothered to give us a rundown on which cars pitted, which stayed out, and why those decisions were made. What did they do instead of giving us this critical information? You guessed it, they forced us to watch the Draft-Track nonsense again! This was almost an exact repeat of a similar situation that transpired at the Brickyard, except that the "Good Hands Moment" took the place of Draft-Track in that earlier fiasco. This is really unbelievable negligence on the part of ESPN. Larry Mac would never let something like this happen.
They inexplicably went to commercial with less than 15 laps to go, just after the announcers stated that the race was finally heating up. Of course, they ended up missing the J. Gordon spin. Amazingly, they then proceeded to again neglect to fully cover the pitstop decisions that were made during the resulting caution. The race restarted with 8 laps to go, and there was no real effort to let us know who in the top 10 had fresh tires and who didn't. This was absolutely ridiculous!
After the race was over, we finally learned from a post-race interview that Martin Truex was having clutch problems for the last part of the race. ESPN should have been on top of this, but they seemed to have no idea. No wonder Kurt Busch kept getting away on those restarts! It was also nice of Jimmie Johnson to let us know that he was the highest finishing car that changed tires on either of the last two pitstops. We certainly never would have known this from what the announcers told us during the race.
While not as bad as TNT's meltdown at Sears Point/Infineon, ESPN seemed to be almost completely out of the loop at the end of this race. Sadly, I'm not reall
- August 21, 2007 at 7:37 PM
- cwebs said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- August 21, 2007 at 7:40 PM
- cwebs said...
Oops, sorry stricklinfan, I didn't mean to copy your format. I honestly didn't see your post before I put mine up! Sounds like we agreed on some things, though!
From some reason, the end of the last sentence in my post got sliced off. It was supposed to read "Sadly, I'm not really surprised."
- August 21, 2007 at 7:50 PM
- Anonymous said...
Glad you added what was cut off.
Liked your "brevity" :-)
You and the others have GREAT MEMORY for details! Unless I would've taken notes, I could not have provided such details.
But I TOTALLY forgot about Suzy Q and Brad. So, no, I did NOT miss them one iota.
You would think the draft thing is CRAP. NOTE TO ESPN PRODUCERS: If it takes away from the RACE, it's rubbbish.
ALSO if you would keep your cameras on different cars for more than 4 seconds, you could show us more action, LIVE.
Pay attention to what is happening on the TV PICTURE PLEASE.
Also I forgot to mention it WAS GREAT to see the finish but they needed to leave the finishing order up a big LONGER, please. I am a quick reader but did not get everybody.
I so missed VLane...and now, no INC to give us the SCOOP on what happened.
But I have YET to see a person that likes the draft animation...or if they liked it once, they are SICK OF IT NOW.
Too many toys, too many gimmicks.
How many times have we said, ESPN, if you want to REMEMBER HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE, look at how you did it on ESPN CLASSICS. No flash, no grapics...and talking heads who PAID ATTENTION to the race.
- August 21, 2007 at 8:06 PM
- cwebs said...
Sophia -
Thanks for reading my comments. I put a significant amount of effort into them! Yes, I was taking notes during the race. I don't usually do that, but I was home all day today with nothing better to do! Sorry they were so verbose, but I really was trying to be brief!
I agree with you on the issue of showing the finishing order. If I'm not mistaken, they never showed a full recap of the results, except on the crawl at the top of the screen.
I also wish Victory Lane was there to fill in the gaps for us. Too bad SPEED had to sneak away from MIS like they did. It reminds of how the Colts left Baltimore - in the dead of night under the cover of darkness!
- August 21, 2007 at 8:47 PM
- Sean said...
We finally got to see the race!
Pit Reporters were good like usual except for Jamie Little.
Andy Petree shined again with his analysis.
They showed the cars crossing the finish.
No Kolber/Daugherty/Musburger/Brewer
Dave Blaney finished in 6th place, but not one word about him, or at least I didn't hear any.
Missed a couple restarts, nothing new here from ESPN.
Talked about the 8 way too much. JR is my favorite driver, but I don't need to know about him every second.
The In-Race Reporter feature is still not being used to its full capacity. I heard Dale Jr talk to Matt Yocum for over 5 minutes about Elvis on Scanner. But ESPN doesn't have these friendly relationships with drivers? hmm.
DRAFT TRACK. This technology is totally useless, and ESPN keeps thinking we're causual viewers. Like they have the whole year.
AERO LOOSE. We don't need Rusty saying "AERO LOOSE" every second.
MISSING WRECKS or NOT UPDATING THEM. They missed the Gordon spin. What happened to Mark Martin? Any Menard Update? Nope.
LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. ESPN continues to think that only the Drivers and Crew Chiefs are important. Rusty Wallace didn't know who Dale Earnhardt Jr's crew chief was last week. Then today didn't know who Jr's spotter was. Everyone knows that it is Steve Hmiel. FOX knows everybody, and it really shows when they're not broadcasting.
ON AIR-CHEMISTRY. The biggest one of all. These guys just don't feed off of each other, and the problem could be Dr. Jerry Punch. Now Punch knows about Nascar, but he's an OK Play-by-Play man. He doesn't get excited much, and doesn't set up the final moments of the race well. Sometimes it sounds like they're speaking in monotone. Sorry but I'm used to DW yelling, or Bill Weber being dramatic. He really doesn't add any real knowledge either like Mike Joy or Allen Bestwick. He just asks questions to Rusty and Andy. At the race in St.Louis with AB, Rusty, and Petree in the booth you could hear, and feel the difference. Why he is not already in the booth confuses me. Dr. Punch is/was much more comfortable on pit road.
Grade = C-
- August 21, 2007 at 8:57 PM
- cwebs said...
sean -
You make some great points. I hope the Good/Bad/Ugly thing catches on!
- August 21, 2007 at 9:09 PM
- Sicklajoie said...
A couple Rusty-isms
-He called the driver of the #17 Matt Kenseth and Matt Kenthis in the same sentence.
-Instead of saying that Vickers should get on the gas in the "center" or "middle" of the corner, we heard "cendle"
-When they mentioned that NASCAR would not black flag the 24 and 12 for their loose shark fins, Rusty said we should 'condemn NASCAR" (instead of commend, I'm sure ;) )
Rusty just seems like he's trying way too hard.
- August 21, 2007 at 9:18 PM
- cwebs said...
sicklajoie -
Ha! I was wondering if anyone else caught that condemn/commend thing! I hit rewind a couple of times and tried to hear it clearly. I almost think he said something like "condmend"...
- August 21, 2007 at 9:33 PM
- SophiaZ123 said...
Ah, you took notes! Now I understand the detail but ALL GOOD POINTS and Lord knows, NASCAR ain't takin' notes? I NEVER mind verbosity when it's written well and is informative. :-)
The Good the Bad and the Ugly.
hmm...I gotta say one more thing that needs added.
WONDERFUL to show in pre-school.
INSULTING to shove it down our throat. If they MUST PAY for the USELESS WASTE OF TIME GRAPHIC, PUT it in the PRE Race show.
And one last note, on the camera work.
Is it just me, or does the producer seem to have Attention Deficit Disorder? They change the cameras too quickly so it's hard to keep a PERSPECTIVE On whats going on AROUND the cars?
More long wide angle shots. More group shots and KEEP THE CARS IN OUR VISION FOR AT LEAST 8 seconds. Seriously. If you were catching all the ACTION by swifly changing, that's one thing. But when you are showing DEBRIS in DE ROADWAY like in Busch's race and we missed a blown tire=wall hit, LIVE, due to debris shown from spun car, that is idiotic. How DO these folks keep their jobs?
P.S. I realize this site has had hiccups lately but SUDDENLY, I am re-logged in as SOPHIA.
= : - 0
- August 21, 2007 at 9:44 PM
- cwebs said...
I do agree that the camera work isn't perfect. I'm not convinced that it's necessarily always because of quick cuts, but they do seem to have a problem staying in-synch with the announcers.
Also, on the restarts, I wish they'd start showing the leaders as they come off turn 4 (so we can see if the leader or the second place car is "laying back" or "jumping", and stay with them for a while so we can see how it's sorting out. Showing the leaders crossing the start/finish line for two seconds and then cutting to a trackside shot of the field blowing by a fixed camera just isn't a useful way to convey information...
- August 21, 2007 at 9:52 PM
- projectpappy09 said...
Kudos to ESPN2 for adding a mini-NASCAR Now with Ryan Burr and Boris Said inside First Take following the race coverage. Burr again showed why he should be the main host of the show, with the segments turning into more of a conversation than a Q+A, with both adding their insights.
BTW, Erik Kuselias was on ESPN Radio today, in place of the now-departed Dan Patrick, reportedly heading to NBC.
- August 22, 2007 at 12:38 AM
- Anonymous said...
Don't know if this is has been addressed, but there's an easy answer about why ESPN hypes Juan Pablo: That ABC NASCAR show. I guess they figure that all those people who watched him on that show Wednesday night were tuning in to see him this week. I love synergy.
When ESPNews showed the results tonight on its bottom line, it showed the top 12 finishers, instead of the usual top 10. I wonder why. It's probably similar to why ESPN's list of finishers in the IndyCar series always ends with where Danica Patrick finished.
- August 22, 2007 at 12:48 AM
- stricklinfan82 said...
ESPNEWS has shown the top 12 qualifiers and finishers in every rundown they've done for NASCAR all year so there's no "Earnhardt Jr. finished 12th" conspiracy involved at all.
- August 22, 2007 at 1:44 AM
- Desmond said...
The reason ESPN picked the number 12 is to correspond to the number of drivers that will make the Chase. Remember that "ESPN on ABC" has the broadcast rights to all the races in the championship.
- August 23, 2007 at 1:13 PM


text:
The Future of Home Performance is Wrapped in CheeseQ&A with Dave Robinson
Dave Robinson, a principal of GreenEarthEquities, is a man in this industry that needs little introduction. If you didn't see him at last year's ACI event accepting the Tony Woods Award, you may have seen him teaching a class, serving as the former president of the California Building Performance Association, or performing deep energy retrofits on foreclosed homes.
When I got the chance to interview Dave last week, I knew I'd learn something. What I didn't expect was that he'd ask to see what my wall-mounted heating unit looked like in my apartment or that he'd offer up some powerful metaphors for how the industry needs to package home performance to the mainstream public. (Hint: It involves metaphorical cheese.)
Below is our conversation—surprises and all.
Home Energy: You're well known in the home performance industry as the energy-wise house flipper…how many homes have you flipped to date?
Dave Robinson: I need to clarify the 'Energy-Wise House Flipper' moniker. That was totally how I started and exactly what I did for the first two years and the first 10 homes. Then the market changed and it became more beneficial to buy and hold, so that's what we have done for the last two years with about 10 more homes. When you buy and hold, you quickly run out of cash, so we now work with investors. We have various ways and amounts that investors can invest.
HE: What kind of investors do you have?
DR: All of the investors that I have already have a green heart. They are already familiar with home performance and they are not just looking to maximize return. The easiest way is to invest is in one house—that's a $200,000 to $300,000 investment. People can also invest any amount that they want. For example, if they just wanted to invest $20,000, then I just pay them a percentage in interest. It's quite a bit more return than just money in the bank but it's still limited to whatever that number is. Another way to invest is through a joint venture or partnership, where a partner puts up half the money to do a whole house and I put up the other half. There are many ways to invest. It's a way to think outside the box…Investors make money and I get to be creative and do what I want to do. It's a win-win.
HE: What has been the most memorable project/home you've worked on?
DR: The most memorable homes have been the ones that have been most challenging. There are two levels of challenge: the construction difficulty and then there's the energy challenge of 'how low can you go?' for utility bills and kilowatt usage. For the first type of challenge, two homes come to mind; both of them required full-room additions. In both cases we added a complete master suite with a master bedroom and master bath. It's always a challenge to renovate/remodel and make it look like it has always been there.
I think the most challenging and rewarding thing I've done energy-wise—and the thing that is really advancing home performance—is my work hybridizing ducted and ductless mini-split heat pump systems.
It started in April 2009 at the ACI meeting, I was riding the airplane home and was with Charles Segerstrom and we were noting that many people at that convention had been saying that mini-splits were looking good but there wasn't any data. I remember saying to Charles, 'I'm working on a project right now and I'll put one in.' I called my HVAC contractor and said, 'Stop what you're doing and meet me on the job on Monday.' I met with the contractor and on the hood of his truck we designed a system. We put it in, had it finished, and published in your magazine by November of that year.
As an energy-wise investor, if you get an idea in the morning you can implement it in the afternoon—and I do.
HE: What is the most surprising thing you've come across when retrofitting a home?
DR: The most surprising thing I've come across is that more people in our industry don't jump on this golden opportunity. I'm making money, I'm having fun, and I'm doing the thing that we're all committed to. Some people do it, but surprisingly few. Last year at ACI when I was receiving the Tony Woods Award, I challenged the crowd to think how great it would be if we—the best and the brightest in our industry—would all go out and buy a foreclosure and fix it up. Then when we meet again in Denver, what a great party we would have. What great stories we'd tell and what great lessons we'd have learned. That's still my message.
HE: What certifications do you hold in highest regard, or think mean the most in terms of efficiency, for homes?
DR: I'm not involved in certification. The way we sell and now rent our homes is totally a customer education process. We explain how their ERV works and why it's needed, how a blower door works and what the CFM50 number means, how shell sealing is done, and a lot more.
At the end of our presentation, the customers know more about home performance than many contractors. Certifications attempt to boil all those numbers and all that education down to a score or a certificate. We feel we are serving our customer better by educating them about home performance and letting them make their decision based on knowledge. Unfortunately most of the current programs are geared toward contractors and don't fit the owner/builder/investor like me and my students. Consequently, most of the people who are doing what we do here at GreenEarthEquities don't use the various certificate or financing programs.
I have suggested modifications and a program that would incentivize investors to several leaders in the industry, but it has yet to gain traction.
HE: What benefits would there be for a program that incentivized investors?
I think that some people feel like investors shouldn't really be helped because they are fat-cat investors anyway. Most investors are going to use contractors—a few will be full-blown DIY people but they are a real minority.
It seems to me like if we've got 60% of the housing stock that need deep renovation, the investor is the one in our society and our economy that is most able to do deep energy retrofits. Unfortunately most Americans live on 105% of their income so they aren't really able to do what needs to be done. So what most people do is put band-aids on and they do the things they can see and that are pretty. That's why a lot of windows get done and not a lot of shell sealing. When you use band-aids when a tourniquet is needed, you don't get the results you're looking for.
To use another metaphor, have you ever tried to give a dog a pill?
HE: Yes, it involved a lot of trickery. When my family dog didn't want to take her pills, I wrapped it in cheese.
It's like giving a dog a pill—that's how we sell green. If you try to sell green in the market, it won't sell very well, especially the important parts of green like air sealing, insulation, and upgrading HVAC, especially the duct systems. None of which you can see. The buying public doesn't readily spend money for the important stuff. You have to wrap it in cheese, which is crown molding and granite countertops.
A lot of what we teach at GreenEarthEquities is how to wrap the cheese around the pill. But there are different ways to wrap the cheese: When you do it in a new house and do it with a 30-year loan, millennials will stretch and pay for green. When they are already in a house, will they open their wallets to reduce their utility bills? Ninety percent of people in all generations won't stretch to do a complete deep energy retrofit, opting rather for only the low-hanging fruit and the more-visible items. Putting it into the house at construction or sale is a way to make it palatable and people will do it. That's the reason that energy-wise investors should be incentivized rather than excluded, which they currently are. Part of the way that they are excluded is that they are written out of many or most of the programs, which require the applicant to be the resident. That attitude that the landlords shouldn't be helped because they are the fat-cat rich guys is backwards thinking. What they could do is wrap the cheese and get the people that wouldn't normally spend money on shell sealing and insulation and package it into something that these people would buy and get it in spite of themselves.
HE: What do you think is the most important item that our industry needs to focus on in the next 5 years for home performance and/or building science to become more mainstream?
DR: I think there are two important things our industry must do. First, we need to shift away from relying totally on modeling and move toward programs based on real bill reduction. Secondly, we need to emphasize and begin quantifying the value of all the other reasons to do home performance besides energy saving and bill reduction.
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Half Life 2 may not make 2004 VGpro.com (thanks Voodoo Extreme and Planet Half-Life and Frans) has a quote from Valve's Gabe Newell taken from Polygon magazine reflecting their willingness to delay the release of Half-Life 2 as long as required to create the gameplay experience they are envisioning. He goes so far as to express a willingness to delay the game's release another year and spend another barrelful of money on the game:
Update: Though many have tried to interpret this as a further delay announcement, it has been pointed out that this quote was made in reference to the game's delay in September 2003.
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PORTLAND, Ore. – Junior Marianne Jodoin earned an early victory in the group stage at the USTA Collegiate Invitational in Portland, Ore., on Friday. The three-day tournament, held at the Tualatin Hills Tennis Center, is a unique round-robin singles format in which players are divided into eight groups consisting of three college student-athletes and one junior player.
In singles play, each player will face every other player in their group Friday and Saturday with the top player in each group then advancing to a single elimination "shoot-out" on Sunday. The winner of the shootout will receive a wildcard to a future USTA Pro Circuit event designated by USTA Player Development.
In the first match of the group stage on Friday, No. 27 Jodoin won the first set 6-3 over Makenzie Craft of Georgia, but dropped the second set, 4-6 to push the match to a third and decisive set. In the final set, Jodoin outlasted Craft, 6-3 to earn the win. In her first match of the tournament, No. 108 Mulholland fell to Kyle McPhillips of UCLA, 6-2, 6-2.
In the first round of the doubles draw, Jodoin and Mulholland were edged by McPhillips and Skylar Morton of UCLA, 9-7, but we able to battle back in the consolation bracket to top Sarah Lee and Amy Zhu of Michigan, 8-4.
In the second match of group play on Saturday, Jodoin is slated to face Grace Ysidora of Washington at 10:30 AM PST, while Mulholland is play Portland's Nastya Polyakova at 1:00 PM PST. Jodoin and Mulholland will play one more match in group play on Sunday, with the winner of each group advancing to a "shootout" later that afternoon.
For live updates, fans can follow the tournament on twitter (@TennisTourny) or by visiting the tournament website.
First Round
No. 27 Marianne Jodoin (Duke) def. Makenzie Craft (Georgia), 6-3, 4-6, 6-3
Kyle McPhillips (UCLA) def. No. 108 Annie Mulholland (Duke), 6-2, 6-2
First Round
McPhillips/Morton (UCLA) def. Jodoin/Mulholland (Duke), 9-7
Consolation Round
Jodoin/Mulholland (Duke) def. Lee/Zhu (Michigan), 8-4


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Circa 1900
A Georgian style double light sconce with a convex mirrored backplate in its original silverplate finish. Signed by the maker R. P. & Co.
Overall: 9-5/8" h. x 7-1/2" w. x 4-1/4" d.
Backplate: 5" h. x 5" w.
2 Candelabra sockets, maximum 60 watts per socket
2" x 3" Vertical junction box recommended
Dry UL listing available with modifications; please contact your salesperson for pricing.
1 fixture total available.
Please contact your local showroom about viewing this item.


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Fitzwaldeny Surname Ancestry Results
Our indexes 1000-1999 include entries for the spelling 'fitzwaldeny'. In the period you have requested, we have the following 2 records (displaying 1 to 2):
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fitz symond fitz symound fitz thomas fitz wareyn fitz warin fitz waryn fitz-thomas fitzsymondes fitzsymonds fitzsymons fitzsymound fitzth' fitztheobald fitztheodis' fitzthiffania fitzthomas fitzthommas fitzthurstan fitztorpin fitzurse fitzvincent fitzwakelin fitzwalden fitzwalker fitzwallynge fitzwalran fitzwalrand fitzwalter fitzwalters fitzwaltier fitzwareyn fitzwarin fitzwarine fitzwariner fitzwarner fitzwarren fitzwarreyn fitzwaryn fitzwaryng fitzwater
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Presented by the Music Department of the School of Arts and Communication
Performance by the SWC Big Band
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During my tenure as a high school teacher, I noticed that my monolingual English speaking students and my long-term English learners (LTELs) exhibited similar difficulties with academic literacy. Interestingly, my LTELs' literacy practices were used as evidence of their failure to acquire English. On the other hand, my monolingual students' knowledge of English was never called into question by their use of literacy in the classroom. I turned to the research to better understand the existence of this double-standard. I found numerous articles that talked about the "different" needs of adolescent English learners; however, this research was not conducted on high school students who were born and educated solely in the United States. This gap in the research led me to identify LTELs as the focus of my dissertation.
My dissertation will explore the in and out-of-school English literacy practices of five 10th grade students who have been classified as English learners since kindergarten. I will employ multiple qualitative methods including: ethnography, verbal protocols of reading, and in-depth qualitative interviews. These tools of inquiry will allow me to paint a holistic portrait of how students labeled as "long-term learners of English" use English literacy. This research is significant because it problematizes the assumption bilingual students' difficulties with academic literacy should be interpreted as evidence a lack of English proficiency.
As a former high school English teacher and administrator in a socioeconomically, ethnically and racially diverse high school, I began my doctoral research in the Department of Curriculum & Teaching at Teachers College with a desire to better understand the connections between the academic achievement of students of color and the complex dynamics of race, ethnicity, culture, knowledge, and power in classroom contexts. Since 2007, I have been a research fellow at a diverse selective public middle school in New York City, where I have observed in classrooms and examined students' English language arts (ELA) standardized and course assessments in order to assist with program development, ELA curriculum design, and professional development in writing and reading across the disciplines. This work, also located in classrooms and closely connected with students and teachers, has contributed to my research interests and inspired me to explore the interrelatedness of identities, experiences, and achievement among students of color in diverse academic contexts.
My dissertation research, a case study entitled "Constructing and Negotiating Identities-in-Practice: Multiple Identities, the Enacted Curriculum, and the Figured World of Achievement in a Middle School English Classroom," examines the intersection of eight 8th grade students' experiences of their English language arts curriculum, the construction of their multiple identities, and their academic achievement. The purpose of this inquiry is to advance the theory and development of context-based curricula that reframe deficit conceptions of lower-income students of color and can lead to improved academic achievement for historically underserved student populations.
My research focuses on the potential of using life-based literary narratives—specifically postcolonial literature for young adults—as a pedagogical tool with pre-service teachers. Given current trends in immigration and global economic interdependence, pre-service teachers need to cultivate a critical understanding of global issues and cultures, so that they may nurture a global worldview in their own students once they begin teaching. My research includes locating postcolonial novels written for and about young adults, and analyzing them for perspectives that challenge normative understandings of race, gender, and nation. My research study will examine the effectiveness of using a book group model with pre-service teachers to critically engage such texts in conversations about global issues and cultures.
Violet Harris maintains active interest and conducts research in the areas of children's literature, multicultural children's literature, children's book publishing, the historic development of African American literacy, and the creation of literacy materials created specifically for African Americans. More broadly, She is interested in literacy, socio-cultural influences on literacy and schooling, and teacher education. Currently, she is working on a content analysis of historic literacy materials for African American children and monitoring two trends in children's literature: biracial/multiracial children and religion. Her future research projects will focus more on analyzing specific authors, illustrators, and genres in children's literature and analyzing trends in publishing.
Latrise is a PhD candidate at Emory University, Division of Educational Studies. She is a former Language Arts/English public school teacher. Her research focuses on the literate practices of African American male youth; particularly the literacy ideologies, texts, and artifacts the complicate and/or extend notions of literate identities within and across in-school and out-of-school spaces. She is also interested in how particular literate practices connect to lived experiences and support the development of the individual literate identities of African American male youth. In Latrise's ethnographic work with a group of African American middle school males, she hopes to reveal insights into how the youth connect with each other, text, literacy artifacts, and teachers/facilitators. Using ethnographic interviewing, she wants to explore how such connections may represent and/or contradict the literate ideologies and practices of other spaces.
Latrise's other research interests include, literacy education, teacher preparation, culturally relevant pedagogy, and writing instruction.
Danny C. Martinez-Doctoral Student (soon to be Candidate) at UCLA's Graduate School of Education & Information Studies in the Division of Urban Schooling.
While teaching Middle School ESL courses in San Francisco and High School ESL courses in Los Angeles I became very interested in the languages spoken by my students. The youth in my classes entered speaking Spanish from various regions of Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Bolivia (to name a few of their home countries). Over time, I noticed how my students began using words and phrases that were new to them, language varieties they were learning from their peers through their everyday communicative interactions. In Los Angeles I also taught 10th grade English, where recent immigrant Latin@ students, U.S. born Latin@ students and Black students interacted on a daily basis. Here I witnessed the language practices of all my students change over time. Recent immigrants were uttering phrases in Black English, Black students were speaking words and phrases in Spanish, Chicano Spanish and Spanglish! U.S. born Latin@s who were fluent speakers of Black English were speaking formal varieties of Spanish, and all students were learning academic varieties of English.
This phenomenon is now central to my dissertation study where I will conduct a year-long ethnography detailing the language practices of Black and Latin@ youth in a 10th grade English Language Arts classroom located in a Los Angeles school that I call Willow High School. The theoretical and methodological traditions of Ethnography of Communication and Language Socialization have informed my study. I will also draw on Sociocultural theories of language and literacy, as well as Cultural Historical Activity Theoretical perspectives on "vertical and horizontal" forms of learning, learning that is inclusive of culturally valued practices. While larger narratives tend to describe the language practices of Black and Latin@ youth through a deficit lens, this project aims to add to research that shows how the language practices of non-dominant communities are complex and useful in fulfilling communicative needs of a language community. This study will also contribute to language and literacy research in education that treats the language and literacy practices of non-dominant youth as a resource for learning by demonstrating how our urban youth are already taking on additive approaches to learning languages, even if these languages are viewed as "marginal."
I am a doctoral candidate in the Language and Literacy Program at the University of South Carolina. My proposed qualitative study uses life history interviews among other methodologies to investigate: (a) roles that African American families play in adolescents' educational opportunities, (b) teachers' views of family involvement, and (c) implications for middle level teachers that can be made by focusing on families as sites for opportunity, support, and access. Although I am at the early stages in the development of this study, I have begun to review literature that helps me understand issues associated with families, adolescents, schools, and literacy education. I am engaging with research in several areas: (a) the study of African American students in the U.S. South, (b) parental involvement, and (c) understanding African American families.
My research is significant to the field of education in the English Language Arts, because it seeks to understand ways that schools and parents can work together to achieve literacy development for adolescents while challenging stereotypes and misperceptions that may be preventing such collaboration. The purpose of the work is to make visible the experiences of families, students, and schools in communities rarely studied - poor, rural African American communities in the U.S. South - and to consider middle school reform regarding parental involvement in a new light. In the process, I hope to challenge schools' definitions of successful parental and family involvement by uncovering resources and support structures that exist in homes and communities in conjunction with assumptions about and expectations for parental support from the school's perspective. Further, the study will provide data that may help teachers become cognizant of their vital roles as active members of family networks by building awareness of families as sites for educational opportunities. Because time and place are crucial in understanding lived experiences, a study like this will add to the body of research in school reform and family involvement by helping teachers conceive of and appreciate supportive roles played by African American families in the literacy learning of adolescent youth in the rural South.
Kimberly N. Parker is a Ph.D. Candidate in Curriculum and Instruction at the University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign. Her research interests include the school-based literacy practices of young Black men. In her work, she explores the ways young Black men make sense of texts through their own discourse as well as those of their classrooms and the broader discourses of school. She also considers how race, ethnicity and gender factor into those discourses. Her other research interests include multicultural young adult literature, literature circles and book clubs as a literacy practice, and charter school education, particularly as related to African American teachers. As she expands her interests, Ms. Parker is grounded in the work of public schools; she regularly considers how to make her research relevant to the classroom teachers charged with teaching our students. As such, she continues to work within public schools as she completes her doctoral work.
My dissertation will be a yearlong ethnographic study of the literacy teaching practices and discourses about literacy at an urban elementary school that serves primarily Latino students in the Southwest. I chose this particular school because it is currently experiencing a lot of positive change in their literacy program, their leadership, their recognition from the district, and they have a newly established university partnership. I situate my study within school reform for improving literacy teaching and learning; and I acknowledge the importance of understanding what urban schools can do to close the achievement gap and trump deficit perspectives about urban schools and culturally and linguistically diverse students.
Sarah Freedman is currently leading a Spencer-funded 3-year grant to study how students develop as ethical civic actors when they live in divided societies--in particular the US, South Africa and Northern Ireland. She is working collaboratively with colleagues at Facing History and Ourselves as well as research teams in each setting. She is particularly interested in how writing can support students as they come to understand and take action related to the conflicts that emerge from the divisions in their societies.
Yolanda Sealey-Ruiz is an Assistant Professor of English Education at Teachers College, Columbia University. At the core of her teaching and research agenda is an exploration of how diversity (gender, class, race, ethnicity, religion, and sexual orientation) inform instructional goals, curriculum, pedagogy, and literacy learning in high school and community college settings. Her three current research projects specifically examine the intersection of race, gender and literacy in these educational settings as well as teacher preparation for urban schools. She is interested in the development of racial literacy skills among teachers and students, the literacy habits, and perceptions of school literacy held by over-age and under-credited high school males, and the relevance of Critical English Education to Black and Latina community college female students.
Sandra Quinones, University of Rochester/Warner Graduate School of Education, Department of Teaching and Curriculum. My research focuses on the concept of educación, a dynamic cultural construct that embodies cultural and linguistic (re)sources of knowledge and ways of being in Latino communities that are worthy of further analysis. I draw from Latino critical race theory (LatCrit) and Chicana/Latina feminist theory to explore what it means to be una persona bien educada from a Puerto Rican perspective. Data collection will include phenomenological interviews, observations, and focus group interviews with Puerto Rican educators to gain a better understanding of individual and collective meanings. Data analysis and interpretive procedures will include discerning categories and themes and then relating these findings with relevant literature.
My aim is to extend the work of previous Latina/o scholars and build theory that contributes to Boricua scholarship and educational research. This line of inquiry has implications for supporting additive schooling practices, including culturally responsive pedagogies with Latina/o youth and their families. This qualitative research also complements the need to address demographic changes and literacy development for English language learners from bilingual/bicultural transnational populations.
Tim San Pedro is currently conducting research in a pilot Native American Literature classroom taught to high school seniors in a southwest urban public school. Despite the city's proximity to bordering reservations, this is the only classroom offered to students that discusses Native Americans in both the contemporary and traditional contexts. By taking a closer look at four case studies (four Native American students), Tim will continue to pursue emerging codes from the data such as perceived silence in the classroom and difference in learning styles from home and school.
Tim's interest in this topic stems from his upbringing on the Flathead Indian Reservation in Polson, Montana and the questions of unequal education in public schools to different populations of students. He hopes that the research he has conducted (and will continue to conduct) will ultimately help Native and non-Native students gain an appreciation for the richness of culture that collectively is their community, their country, and their world.
Arlette Ingram Willis received her Ph. D. from the Ohio State University. She is currently a professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in the Department of Curriculum and Instruction, the division of Language and Literacy. Her publications include Teaching and using multicultural literature in grades 9-12: Moving beyond the canon (1998), Reading comprehension research and testing in the US: Undercurrents of race, class, and power in the struggle for meaning (2008); three co-edited books Multiple and intersecting identities in qualitative research (with B. Merchant, 2001); Multicultural issues in literacy research and practice (with G. Garcia, R. Barrera, and V. Harris, 2003); On Critically Conscious Research: Approaches to Language and Literacy Research (with M. Montovan, H. Hall, C. Hunter, L. Burke, and A. Herrera, A., 2008); and numerous referred articles, book chapters, book reviews, and monographs. She also has served as co-editor (with David Bloome) of the National Council of Teachers of English Literacy Book Series and is co-editor (with Violet J. Harris) of the American Education Research Journal, Teaching, Learning, and Human Development section.
My dissertation, "The Writing Development of Procedural and Persuasive Genres: A Multiple Case Study of Culturally and Linguistically Diverse (CLD) Fifth Grade Students," explores the relationship between the instructional context and the development of writing of a small group of diverse CLD students acquiring written literacy in English. This ethnographic case study presents the portraits of five multilingual/multicultural students as they navigate and negotiate learning the structural elements and language features of the procedural and persuasive genres. Data collection included conducting observations, capturing videotaped examples of the nexus between classroom instruction and student writing, the collection of students' writing samples, formal and informal interviews with students and the classroom teacher, and writing memos about my own experiences of processes observed. Data analysis involved iterative, multiple re-readings across the data sources in order to identify the themes, questions and impressions (Dyson & Genishi, 2005; Miles & Huberman, 1994). Theories about second language writing, systemic functional linguistics (SFL), student voice, identity and literacy further informed my analyses. It is my hope that results of the dissertations study will help teachers discover new ways to educate children and youth of color from a diversity-as-strength perspective (Cummins, 1998).
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Team AO,
Here are two pics of laser engraved designs we are thinking about for the new frame. Please give us your opinions!!
Thanks AGD
Printable View
Team AO,
Here are two pics of laser engraved designs we are thinking about for the new frame. Please give us your opinions!!
Thanks AGD
Personally, I like the second one.
"I was afraid, okay, I was afraid. I knew that it was Soze. How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
-Verbal Kint
I think they both look great. Keep up the good work
force it, if it breaks it
needed to be replaced
Nice... I like them both.
Up until now I wasn't sure if I would buy one...
I understand this isn't the tech forum for those of you who posted about it earlier...
... but what's the level of difficulty in installing one of these frames/grip on to an RT Pro? Are there any 'physical' adjustments I have to make in order to put one of these on, as in drills... cutting, etc?
An additional question to AGD is, will it void the official, as well as 'unofficial' warrenty policy that my marker has if I put this frame on it?
Yes, I am the official forum newbie! http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
RT Pro - Chrome Powerfeed Right
Armageddon 68/4500
KAPP Chrome Apoc Drop Forward
12 vt Revolution
[This message has been edited by Arturus (edited 07-27-2001).]
I like the second one a bit more, but the first is great too... Very nice, I can't make a solid call.
I dont care for eigher, I am a fan of understated stuff.
I would like the AGD to look more like the logo thats in the AGD grips in the RT / RT Pro.
Maybe do some light edging high lights on some of the mill work.
Honestly, I like it better w/o it. It's too busy. That thing that circles the safety/trigger pin looks like big lopsided [Female reproductive organs which produce life giving essence for the consumption of recently born young humans]... http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
"Don't mill your tank." - Miscue
Miscue's Profile
[This message has been edited by Army (edited 07-27-2001).]
Personally, if I had a choice... would love just a plain polished/chrome version of it to match the look of my RT Pro.
Miscue - lol I didn't even notice 'till you pointed it out.
RT Pro - Chrome Powerfeed Right
Armageddon 68/4500
KAPP Chrome Apoc Drop Forward
12 vt Revolution
Miscue hit it on the .... whatever. I'd say skip it. The look doesn't fit with the rest of the product for which it's intended.
i like the second one better. cooler design. that is which one i would buy. also are the sticky grips coming with the frame?
It looks nice but if the money can be saved without having it, I would rather save money. It looks nice though.
if I were to choose, I'd go with #2, but I think flames would look cooler. Personaly I dont like the western style AGD logo there, I think AGD needs a simple logo to put on things, instead of just 'AGD'. I'm with Rob though. Look at DYE, its DYE but it has the target behind it, and its world known in the paintball industry. if they just had DYE written in normal letters, it'd be boring, but with they make them in the same font with the target behind it, its much more popular.
BTW I love the new look, I have my local store ready to order as soon as they're available.
"If all I see in society is darkness, why should I express myself with a different color than black? Its camoflauge to mingle with society" ~Chaos
I would echo Miscue's comments.
And I think the flames take away from an elegant design, not add to it. I personally would not buy it with flames... but I guess that is a personal style.
Now if you were to use latigo (sp?) style.... LOL Either go all the way with etching, or not at all... LOL
Just my opinion.
The richest man is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.
Personally, i'd prefer the first. It just seems a little easier on the eyes... http://www.automags.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
"Nobody expects the Spanish Enquisition!" -MP
neither. I'm a fan of plain old polished frames. but if you had the whole gun done it would look really cool
They both look good...I'll take one...Maybe two (one for each...Rt and mag)
RTP00440, Benchmark Offset Adj. HPA Cradle, Pro-Connect, 12"AA, 12"DYE SS, 12"Boomie, 14"JJ Ceramic, 68/4500 NitroDuck Tuffy, 12Revvie, Warp.
Team ArchAngels
No Skill, No Talent, All Heart" ~ Oh Pawlak
Guys those are the exact same designs. Jsut one is filled while the other is not.
Personaly I would prefer without and a simple AGD maybe on the rail.
Lvl7 68 AutoMag SN - CF00810
Retro Valve
Air America - Armegeddon 4500/68ci
Dye Titanium 14" Boomstick
They both look so sweet but if I had to choose I would pick the second FIRE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Cocker killer
I think it would be better plain. If I wanted milling and "trick" stuff, I'd go aftermarket.
That's WAY too much. (A tad on the cheesy side... Sorry)
Sometimes simplicity is more beautiful.
The original was great with the simple milling.
Just one comment. The flames around the trigger pin and safety look like boobs. Take the part out. But I like #2.
retro mini
And shepherds we shall be
For thee My Lord for thee
Power hath descended forth from thy hand
That our feet may swiftly carry out thy command
So we shall flow a river forth to thee
And teeming with souls shall it ever be
In nomine patre, at file, spiritus sancte.
- MacManus Family Prayer
Neither, as others said before me, the frames look a little cleaner without flames.
Black vert.feed E-mag
68/4500 Dynaflow
12" Freak
I'd have to say the frame looks better without the engraving. Granted, it may be a little empty, but the flames add too much to the point of it looking a little overkill. There has to be something else that can be added instead.
I agree with the neither comments. I like understated elegance. Just put a small AGD on it and leave it alone. And pass the savings on to us?
i have always been a fan of function over form, i.e. the KISS principle...while neither of those designs would keep me from getting one, i would prefer a simple AGD logo (maybe like the one used on the Z-grip)instead of the flames and such. i think the overall elegant design of the frame and trigger already lends a style that speaks for itself.
if i had to choose one, i would prefer the outline instead of the full etching.
and yes, the etching near the safety does look like lopsided mammaries http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif
i gotta say that the amount of input sought by the man himself is really coooool. i dont know of any other company that really takes the time to practice the "we listen to our customers" sermon. maybe with all the feedback Tom has asked for and received about this frame it should be called the "AO Frame" hehehe
good work on the design, but plz just try and keep it simple. its much easier to tolerate someone who is quiet than someone loud and overstated http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif
I'd say skip it as well... Keep the AGD logo (I'd say the outline looks better than the filled-in one) but ditch the flames.
Is there an echo in here?
Purple Minimag (MM08889)
with some stuff attached to it
yea, those flames do look like [Female reproductive organs which produce life giving essence for the consumption of recently born young humans]. i think it would be cooler without that milling. maybe cut out another weird shape or two out so it dont look plain.
[This message has been edited by Army (edited 07-27-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Army (edited 07-27-2001).]
I would rather see the AGD milled into it. That way even raw frames could be purchased and Anno or Powder coating would retain it.
I think #2 looks real nice!
Personally I would prefer plain. It would also help keep the cost down and get it on the market sooner.


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First of all, I would like to give a big congratulations to all the candidates who were victorious in their bids for city commissioners of Leavenworth.
To the editor:
First of all, I would like to give a big congratulations to all the candidates who were victorious in their bids for city commissioners of Leavenworth. It was a very smooth race without any back biting and/or negativity. Some very good issues were brought up and expressed. I feel ALL candidates did a fine job representing themselves and what they stand for. Again, congratulations to all who won as well as a big thank you to all those who campaigned.
Second, it's rather saddening and disheartening that only 7.45 percent of the registered voters actually got out and voted. A couple of the candidates spent money, lots of time, walked neighborhoods and put out signs & flyers.
Why? Because a couple of your fellow citizens care about what happens to our city and all who reside here. Yet, approximately 92 percent of our city's registered voters didn't bother to vote.
If you are a registered voter and did not take a few minutes out of your time to vote, then like it or not, you are part of the problem with Leavenworth. We, as a society have become adapted to complaining and finger pointing, yet taking no action. And that, my fellow citizens..... is a shame.
Throughout our U.S. history many, many lives were lost in giving you your right to vote and be heard. What was your excuse for not voting?
I sincerely hope we citizens of Leavenworth do a better job in our future elections.


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The teachers' staff-room is a charming thatched building adjacent to the classrooms overlooking the dusty recreation and assembly ground at Good Hope Basic Primary School in Bentiu, the capital of oil-rich Unity State in South Sudan.
Bentiu is near the disputed border with Sudan and within striking distance of Sudanese fighter jets and warplanes.
In recent weeks, there have been aerial bombardments targeting newly-independent South Sudan that both the White House and the United Nations have condemned. A U.N. Security Council resolution has told the two Sudans to stop fighting, sit down and negotiate a settlement to their outstanding disputes over oil and borders.
Students like Dalat Stephen Kuong, 17, worry that the fear of more air strikes is keeping South Sudanese children away from classes at Good Hope.
"Right now, the northern Arabs are still bombarding us, because they are still feeling bad things," she says. "In school, we don't have any children. Maybe in class you can find 50 pupils." Stephen Kuong says there used to be many more at her school.
Rebuilding Education After War
Long years of civil war, exile and life as refugees have disrupted the education system in South Sudan. They are still catching up nearly a year after seceding from neighboring Sudan.
None of that, however, stops South Sudan's students having passionate opinions about their new homeland, their hopes and especially their neighbors in the north.
"Are they going to give us back our land?" Stephen Kuong says of the Sudanese, referring to quarrels about territory, boundary demarcation and oil revenues.
"Maybe if they say they are going to give us back our land, maybe the children will come back. I want everybody to come back to South Sudan," she muses. "If they leave us in peace, maybe those people who traveled will come back."
You might expect to find rather young students at a primary school in Bentiu, but among the little ones at Good Hope are a number in their late teens, like Kuong and 19-year-old Dhoal Thuol Khan.
"They are always attacking us, bombing our children," Thuol Khan says. "And even now, there are some other schools that are not open because of this war. People are running to other countries like Kenya, Uganda."
Many students had their schooling interrupted by war, which they say is bad news for the development of freshly-minted South Sudan, the world's newest nation. They blame Sudan, across the border, for the continuing troubles between the two neighbors and for the renewed conflict, a charge the north rejects.
The classroom is full of children of all ages, some listening attentively, others chattering and whispering as kids do. But the group sharing its views on what independence and citizenship mean is totally focused.
"To me, to be South Sudanese, I need to be free in my land. No one can attack me in my land. No one can dominate me," Thuol Khan says. "We don't need to fight, but we need our rights."
Proud To Be Sudanese
Changing gears from what separates the two nations, 14-year-old James Ran Biel says he is proud to be a citizen of South Sudan. "Yes, of course," he says.
Veronica Nyeriek echoes the sentiment. "In my land, I want to be a good citizen," the 15-year-old says. "And I want to be a leader. I want to be free in my own land. I want peace, but if they refuse to make peace ... then we are ready to fight for our land."
Nyeriek wants to be a pilot, Ran Biel a surgeon and Thuol Khan an engineer — in order to build schools and hospitals to help their people in South Sudan, they say.
Thuol Khan concludes that education is the key to progress and peace in South Sudan.
"Education means you can feel free," he says. "No one can dominate you. You can get whatever you need when you are educated."
Like Nyeriek, he says he is hopeful for the future of South Sudan and that their country will not return to war with Sudan.
"I need my people to be in peace and I need this young nation of mine to be like other countries in the world," he says. "I don't need my people to die. I need them to be in peace."
From Zimbabwe, we head to South Sudan. It's been almost a year since that country gained independence from its northern neighbor, ending a two-decade civil war, which displaced thousands of people. South Sudan's education system is still feeling the effects of the conflict. NPR's Ofeibea Quist-Arcton talked with students there about their hopes and views about their new homeland, and she brings us this audio postcard.
OFEIBEA QUIST-ARCTON, BYLINE: Students at Good Hope Basic Primary School in Bentiu, in oil-rich Unity State near the contested border, sing South Sudan's new national anthem with gusto.
VERONICA NYERIEK: Guests of honor, ladies and gentlemen. It's Good Hope Primary School. Ready to introduce ourselves. My name is Veronica Nyeriek. I am 15 years old.
JAMES RAN BIEL: My name is James Ran Biel. I'm 14 years old.
QUIST-ARCTON: You might expect to find rather young students at a primary school here in Bentiu, but among the little ones are a number in their late teens. For many, their schooling has been interrupted by war. And 17-year-old Dalat Stephen Kuong blames Sudan's cross-border air strikes for the continuing troubles.
DALAT STEPHEN KUONG: Right now, even the northern Arabs, they are still bombarding us. Even in school, we don't have any children at school because they are fearing those Arabs.
QUIST-ARCTON: Dhoal Thuol Khan is 19. Like Dalat Stephen Kuong, he's pretty intense about Sudan, whom both accuse of restarting the conflict, a charge the north denies.
DHOAL THUOL KHAN: They are always attacking us, bombing our children, and even now there are some other schools not yet open because of this war.
QUIST-ARCTON: James Ran Biel, who's 14, tells me he's proud to be a citizen of South Sudan.
RAN BIEL: Yes, of course, I'm proud.
QUIST-ARCTON: Fifteen-year-old Veronica Nyeriek echoes the same theme.
NYERIEK: In my land, I want to be a good citizen and I want to be a leader.
QUIST-ARCTON: Gathered in this classroom, Dhoal Thuol Khan says education means you can be free.
KHAN: You can get whatever you need when you are educated. And I need my people to be in peace and I need this young nation of mine to be like other countries in the world. I don't need my people to die, not to go back again in war.
QUIST-ARCTON: Thank you very much to the students. Thank you for your time. Thank you for answering my questions. And I wish you good luck with your studies. Thank you.
QUIST-ARCTON: This is Ofeibea Quist-Arcton, NPR News, with the students of Good Hope Basic Primary School in Bentiu, Unity State, South Sudan.
(SOUNDBITE OF CHILDREN SINGING) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.


text: Exit this survey West Coast 09-13 NAGA Survey This survey is to help NAGA continue to grow and improve by hearing what our customers feel are our strengths and weaknesses. * 1. If we may contact you concerning this survey please fill out the information below. This information is not required. Name: City/Town: State: -- select state -- AL AlabamaAK AlaskaAS American SamoaAZ ArizonaAR ArkansasCA CaliforniaCO ColoradoCT ConnecticutDE DelawareDC District of ColumbiaFM Federated States of MicronesiaFL FloridaGA GeorgiaGU GuamHI HawaiiID IdahoIL IllinoisIN IndianaIA IowaKS KansasKY KentuckyLA LouisianaME MaineMH Marshall IslandsMD MarylandMA MassachusettsMI MichiganMN MinnesotaMS MississippiMO MissouriMT MontanaNE NebraskaNV NevadaNH New HampshireNJ New JerseyNM New MexicoNY New YorkNC North CarolinaND North DakotaMP Northern Mariana IslandsOH OhioOK OklahomaOR OregonPW PalauPA PennsylvaniaPR Puerto RicoRI Rhode IslandSC South CarolinaSD South DakotaTN TennesseeTX TexasUT UtahVT VermontVI Virgin IslandsVA VirginiaWA WashingtonWV West VirginiaWI WisconsinWY Wyoming Email Address: Phone Number: * 2. How did you find out about the tournament? NAGA Website Flyer Received in Mail Advertisement at Training Facility Word of Mouth Other (please specify) * 3. How did you register for the tournament? Pre-registered Online Pre-registered by Mail Registered Friday Registered Saturday or Sunday * 4. How far did you travel for this event? If you traveled via air please choose 'Flied In' 0-50 Miles 51-100 Miles 101-200 Miles Over 200 Miles Flew In * 5. How organized was the event? Extremely organized Very organized Moderately organized Slightly organized Not at all organized * 6. Describe your overall experience at the tournament Great Very Good Good Not Good Horrible * 7. How easy was the registration process for this event? Extremely easy Very easy Moderately easy Slightly easy Not at all easy * 8. How professional was our registration staff? Extremely professional Very professional Moderately professional Slightly professional Not at all professional * 9. Which Ring(s) did you compete in? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 * 10. How professional was the referee staff? Extremely professional Very professional Moderately professional Slightly professional Not at all professional * 11. How knowledgeable was the referee staff? Extremely knowledgeable Very knowledgeable Moderately knowledgeable Slightly knowledgeable Not at all knowledgeable * 12. How likely are you to compete in another NAGA event? Extremely Likely Very likely Moderately Likely Slightly Likely Not at all Likely * 13. If you are not likely to attend another NAGA what is the main reason? Awards Bracketing Facility Lack of Competition Length of Tournament NAGA Staff Pricing Other (please specify) * 14. What area(s) (if any) do you feel NAGA could improve upon? Registration Process Children/Teen Bracketing Adult Bracketing Awards Award Presentation Referee Staff Facility Length of Tournament None Other (please specify) * 15. What area(s) do you feel NAGA was strong in? Registration Process Children/Teen Bracketing Adult Bracketing Awards Award Presentation Referee Staff Facility Length of Tournament None Other (please specify) * 16. How would you describe the selection of merchandise at the NAGA Merchandise Booth? Excellent Selection Very Good Selection Decent Selection Bad Selection If there is something not sold that you would like to see let us know. * 17. If you have any feedback (positive or negative) that was not addressed in this survey please provide it below. Done


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The Boulder County Coroner's Office identified the man who shot himself at a halfway house Monday after a brief standoff with Boulder County sheriff's deputies as John Javorek, 39.
Coroner Emma Hall said in a news release that Javorek died Monday at Boulder Community Hospital.
According to officials, two sheriff's deputies went to the Boulder Community Transition Center, 1770 Canyon Blvd., to return a man to jail after he violated probation, but he pulled out a gun. The deputies then drew their guns in response.
Boulder police were about to send a negotiator, but the man shot himself in the head.
Javorek was a "day reporting client" at the halfway house, which means he wasn't a resident but instead checked in daily or close to daily. Officials said the man was on probation after being convicted of driving while ability impaired.
According to court records, Javorek was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence in 2011 and ultimately pleaded guilty to driving while ability impaired. He was sentenced to jail and 18 months of probation, but in June he had his probation revoked and went back to jail for 60 days before having his probation reinstated.
Officials have not yet said what the recent complaint was against Javorek.
Boulder County chief probation officer Greg Brown said his office did not file a complaint against Javorek and could not say what violation he may have committed.
It is a standard condition of any probation agreement in Boulder County that the offender not use drugs or alcohol during the probation period, Brown said. He said failed drug tests are part of a probation client's medical records, and their privacy is protected under the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA.
An autopsy has been completed in the case, but the autopsy report is not available to the public at this time. Hall will conduct an investigation to determine the official cause and manner of death.
Camera Staff Writer Joe Rubino contributed to this report.


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Latest update : 2012-11-13
All eyes on Hollande's first press conference
FRENCH PAPERS, Tues. 13/11/12: French President François Hollande is getting a lot of attention in the press today. He's due to give a hotly anticipated press conference, his first since being elected, to explain his recent policies. Le Monde says the trick for Hollande is to show that he's got the ball of change rolling all the while proving that he, himself, hasn't changed.
Get the France 24 press review on your iPhone or become a fan on Facebook.
Le Monde: Hollande's got some explaining to do
Libération: Vulnerable
Le Figaro: Words and woes


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1. Make her a book of coupons that she can cash in throughout the year. For example, make her a coupon for a night off from cooking, a free car wash, breakfast in bed etc.
2. Get ideas from these famous Mother's Day quotes and write her a poem.
3. Bring her breakfast in bed with her favorite sections of the paper and a vase with a single flower in it. Or give her a coupon that entitles her to the breakfast of her choice, served in bed, on any selected morning.
4. Treat her to brunch, or just go out for coffee and dessert.
5. Make her a meal she'll never forget: Comfort Food, Italian Feast, or Southwestern Grill. Or, take her out for dinner.
6. Give her a gift certificate for a spa so that she can feel really pampered! Or buy her a basket of her favorite beauty products that she can enjoy at home.
7. Give her a framed family photo (make sure she looks good in the picture)! Or organize a family photo session.
8. Send her an e-card.
9. Invite her to a picnic and do all the preparations.
10. Make her a tape or CD of her favorite songs.
11. Clean the house for her (or at least some of it)!
12. If you can't be with her, call her and tell her what's going on in your life. Send a care package, complete with her favorite book, CD, snacks, wine, a personal note, and other small gifts.
13. Surprise her with a good friend she hasn't seen in while.
14. Bring or send her flowers. If she works, send them to her office - she'll be able to spend more time with them there.
15. Make a "play" date -- go to the zoo, ice skating, get ice-cream, go to a water park, etc.
16. Buy her a book by her favorite author, but make sure she hasn't read it yet.
17. Try to make sure all her children or loved ones are with her for the day.
18. Bake her a cake.
19. Put a note under her pillow.
20. Plan a wine-tasting outing to local wineries.
21. Wash her car.
22. Buy tickets to a chick flick or performing arts show she would like.
23. Plan a outdoor adventure trip -- hiking, camping, etc. -- or even for a hot air balloon trip.
24. Write her a letter expressing the great thing you've learned from her.
25. Tell her you love her and thank her for being Mom.


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It may have taken 20 years to win election as sheriff, but Bobby McCallum is not looking back. On Tuesday night, as he accepted the hugs and well-wishes of supporters, he said he is ready to go to work on Jan. 8.
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