text:
intel has officially released the 3.2ghz pentium 4. all of these chips are fabbed on a .13 micron process and come with 512 kb l2 cache. the 3.2ghz pentium 4 cpus will come with hyper-threading enabled and an 800mhz bus. intel claims that:
a computer based on the pentium 4 processor with ht technology operating at 3.2 ghz can convert one minute of digital video to mpeg 4 while encoding about twenty-six minutes worth of music to mp3 format over four times faster than a pc based on an intel pentium iii processor at 1 ghz – the top-speed processor just three years ago. in addition, consumers can edit photos nearly three times faster with a pc based on the pentium 4 processor with ht technology at 3.2 ghz versus a 1 ghz pentium iii processor-based pc.
disturbingly, the 3.2ghz pentium can dissipate over 100 watts when running at maximum for sustained periods, which clearly shows why the 130 nanometer process is nearly max'd out. most critics seem to agree that intel's 3.2ghz cpu is now faster than anything that amd can currently offer. the chip sells for us$637 each in volume shipments. given that intel's next-generation prescott cpu will be out within the next 6 months, many consumers may simply chose to wait until that chip arrives.
user comments 141 comment(s)
|hmm, personally i wonder still. (11:45am est mon jun 23 2003)
i wonder why they still are going so much with non optical based processors,, guess they want to milk it for all its worth before the switch. fact is that several components including capacitors etc can be made in optical format now,, nixes the heat problem, and the wats would be only a small fraction of what is used today. – by eric the red
|price? (11:51am est mon jun 23 2003)
um wtf
p4 3.0ghz = $437
so were paying an extra $200 for 200mhz?
– by josh
|hmm……. (12:02pm est mon jun 23 2003)
how do people think this (or prescott) will compare to the ppc970 that is rumoured to be in the new macs coming out today? – by just curious
|re: hmm….. (12:18pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i think the ppc970 is gonna crush these p4 systems. not too sure about prescott though, who knows what intel has up their sleves :) – by mingcheechang
|:) (12:21pm est mon jun 23 2003)
the 970 will crush all intel and amd has to offer… especially in a dual 2ghz config…
will be interesting to see how the prescott does against the 970…although by then the 980 may be near completion… – by macman
|personally… (12:22pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i hope that amd can pull something out to spank intel with… gimme more competition :) – by macman
|re: josh (12:24pm est mon jun 23 2003)
you don't like it? don't pay for it! (i know you weren't gonna, but still…) and "price skimming" (what intel is doing here) is an incredibly common practice. ati and nvidia did it with the 9700/9800 and 5800/5900 ultra. almost every games console ever released has done it. and importantly, amd did it with the 1ghz athlon, and the faster bartons.
so how come amd doing it is perfectly acceptable, but if intel does it they deserve to be shot and fed into a shredder? – by big fred
|haha ppc970 (12:32pm est mon jun 23 2003)
it really doesn't matter how fast the ppc970 is. you can only run mac os on it. that's like running linux on the fast 3.2 ghz pentium4. you can't play any games! why have a fast processor? to encode video faster??? please. games are all that matters. – by macs suck
|wooo (12:38pm est mon jun 23 2003)
4% speed improvement on a dead end socket!
i can't wait to spend $600 on one of these babies!
for those of you that think the price of this one is going to drop, look at the prices of all of intel's "fastest chip on the socket" processors.
hell, 800mhz slot 1 pentium iiis are still selling for $125.
so, go buy that $200 board. this is the fastest processor that you'll ever put on it. – by perdo
|macs suck… (12:39pm est mon jun 23 2003)
hahaha…you hit the nail on the head there! encoding video faster will let me make more cash faster and have happier clients…play games? lol…i almost forgot this was a geek site for a moment. thank you for bringing me back down to earth…
hahahaha games hahaha you are so funny hahaha hahaha…ouch my tummy hurts hahahaha… – by macman
|… (12:42pm est mon jun 23 2003)
20 more minutes… – by macman
|prescott release date (12:47pm est mon jun 23 2003)
oct 27(monday), 2003 which is 4months away instead of 6 months
3.4 prescott will dissipate 70 watt, along with nv40 or r420 it will run pretty cool. – by kaboom
|4 months… (12:53pm est mon jun 23 2003)
have intel traditionally been accurate with their release dates? – by macman
|macman dont be g@y (12:53pm est mon jun 23 2003)
macman, you are boring. encode video faster? it is already fast enough. games? they get more realistic every generation. if this ppc970 can do ray-tracing in real time i could respect it. otherwise, it's for macs. they suck. face it. you are just in denial. – by macs still suck
|perdo (1:51pm est mon jun 23 2003)
but you gotta take the street and comhpaq into consideration. i bought a piii 900 w/ 128mb, 30gb hd, cdrw for $129 in the retail box 6 months ago. – by fyi
|g5… (2:22pm est mon jun 23 2003)
has arrived…thank you steve! – by macman
|oh my… (2:28pm est mon jun 23 2003)
the g5 is designed for dul processor systems. it offers 215 in-flight instructions (the g4 can only do 16), an optimized velocity engine, two double precision floating points, two fload store units, massive branch prediction logic, 130 nanometer process, silicon on insulator, and 8 layer copper interconnects. – by macman
|"it is already fast enough" (2:28pm est mon jun 23 2003)
spoken like a true amature with no clue about video editing. encoding will be "fast enough" when i go to encode an entire hdtv movie for the next generation dvds and it finishes instantly. that's when i'll say "fast enough", at least until the next format comes out. honestly, i don't get this hostility to any platform. isn't it a good thing when a company improves its offerings?
btw, i stopped by the apple website and the store is currently unaccesible while they update it.
as for the topic, looks like intel has won in the performance battle for this generation. here's hoping they get prescott out in a timely matter to keep everything interesting. – by js
|wwdc now showing… (2:34pm est mon jun 23 2003)
apple shows off the worlds fastest pc with three things: chip (g5), system, product. the g5 has some amazing properties: it's a 64-bit processor, runs up to 2ghz, and has a 1ghz front-side bus. it offers full smp ("designed entirely for smp"). the g5 has a the industry's highest bandwidth using an entirely new architecture. it is massively parallel with a 12 unit core with 2 fpus and is capable of 16 in-flihgt operations.it uses the world's most advanced chip fabrication by ibm: 130nm process, soi 8 layer interconnects, 58 million transistors, 300 mm (12-inch wafters. ibm vp says it "costs $3 billion to fab this thing" because they "shrunk the gate length to 6 atomic units." – by too excited!!!
|nobody cares (2:36pm est mon jun 23 2003)
the future of computers is gaming. movies will not matter because nobody will watch them. why watch something when you can be in it? hey nice word macman. plick. haha. you got picked on a lot when you were young didn't you? – by macs suck
|omg… (2:37pm est mon jun 23 2003)
next: system. it offers 8gbps of bandwidth using ddr memory. the g5 processor are connected to the system controller by independent busses. there is no competition for bandwidth because it has 12x. it features a 400mhz 128-bit ddr memory (ram) with 6.5 gbps of bandwidth. grahis is agp 8x pro graphics with 2gbps of bandwidth (power for pro cards) and hypertransport for the drives, 133mhz pci-x, firewire 800/400, usb 2.0, gigabit ethernet, optical digital audio (new). – by im dying!!!
|wow… (2:43pm est mon jun 23 2003)
now product. up to 8 gb of memory. eveything is on independent buses so there's no bandwidth clogging. the memory is 40x faster. you can transfer an entire dvd in one second if everything was in ram. it features a nvidia geforce 5200 fx pro chip in the low-end and an ati radeon 9600 pro in the high-end. it has a new case with a more advanced, slightly more boxy enclosure. it is light grey, all-aluminum enclosure, which is very thin. the rear has a mesh backing. it has handles ("straight up" not diagonal). it is quieter than previous generation machines. the front is totally mesh for air circulation (as is the back). there are 4 separate thermal zones (power supply…
– by screaming
|is it possible to discuss this reasonably? (2:44pm est mon jun 23 2003)
why don't we try making this formum just a bit more civil?
interesting stuff to discuss, just why make it into an argument?
amd fans shouldn't shout too loud at ibm or intel, amd may not survive independently much longer. – by ben
|re: macs suck (2:47pm est mon jun 23 2003)
you're right in saying that you don't need much faster processors unless you're into gaming or video/graphics stuff. that's why i decided to get the powerbook for my normal work purposes. os x is so easy to use, stable and pretty. it's a brainless machine that lets my stressed out mind just concentrate on my work. and since it's plenty fast for what i need, i will be keeping my baby for many years to come.
i still keep my pc for games though :) – by supperman
|ooh (2:48pm est mon jun 23 2003)
im hurt mr. mac man. mommy the big bad mr mac man is coming after me. oh yeah i forgot. everybody i know that likes macs sits in their basement and rubs up against their fruity monitors. then they remember the fact that they can't customize their computer the way they want. and then they remember that if they try to resell apple components they get shut down by apple. sounds worse than microsoft to me. haha apple blows. always will. – by macs suck
|keynote (2:52pm est mon jun 23 2003)
apple just showed the g5 970 dual 2.0 ghz rendering in photoshop 2.1x faster than dual xeon 3.0's. who's the baddest now????? – by toldya!!!!!!!!!!!
|re: eric the red (2:55pm est mon jun 23 2003)
good point, and very valid too. the answer to your quetion is the same as why we still use fossil fuels in our vehicles instead of other sources of cleaner and less polluting energy sources…our beloved senators, congressmen and political officials get kickbacks that cost way less from the various industries than the cost of retooling and upgrading equipment. it is easier to pay $500,000 to keep your technology in place than the billions it cost to replace it…. that is probably the main reason, it is sad but true. the technology for optical equipment has been around since the early 80's although not to many people knew about it. fiberchannel motherboards and hardrives have been widely used in goverment systems for cyphering and coding since the mid 70's so this is a long time coming, but even to this day if you can find any fiberchannel equipment it is extremely expensive, wish i had some… – by techwarrior
|can you afford it? (2:56pm est mon jun 23 2003)
can you afford that computer? oh try dual opterons – by thats what i thought
|i apologize… (2:57pm est mon jun 23 2003)
to all that had to listen to this junk…im afraid the wwdc is making me loose my mind…
i took it hook, line, and sinker…hehe – by macman
|not too bad on price… (2:58pm est mon jun 23 2003)
dual g5 2ghz at $2999…compare that to top line dell… – by macman
|its hurting now… (2:59pm est mon jun 23 2003)
jobs then touted the g5 power mac's performance against dell. the dual 3.0ghz xeon (533mhz bus, 512mb ram) from dell costs $4000 and isn't as fast. it has the same stuff but slower. all three power mac g5 machines are due in august. spec int test show that 2ghz g5, the 3ghz p4 (fastest available), and 3.0ghz xeon. using the gcc 3.3 compiler, veritest independent test lab showed that the g5 is 10$ slower on integer, but 21% faster on fpu. the dual g5 smoked the p4 and dual xeon. it is 41% faster on fpu than the dual-xeon and 3% faster on integer (via spec tests). both single and dual processor tests were shown. adobe said that photoshop will be updated when these machines are released. – by g5
|re: macs suck (3:00pm est mon jun 23 2003)
"that's like running linux on the fast 3.2 ghz pentium4. you can't play any games! why have a fast processor?"
you should do your homework befor you speak, it makes you sound really foolish. just to enlighten you, many many windows based games/software can run on redhat and other flavors of linux…but i wouldn't expect someone who probably doesn't touch linux to know much about the os anyway…. – by linuxguru
|slam dunk (3:01pm est mon jun 23 2003)
phil schiller shows bakeoff, showing that g5 is 2.1x faster. it takes 15 minutes to transition code to g5 (just recompiling). the g5 wins in 3d rendering, mathematica 5 (both matrix and integer calculations–over twice as fast). mathematica: "the competition isn't pcs anymore. it's high-end unix workstations, and the g5 is faster than them too." schiller demos emagic audio software where 1000 simultaneous voices can be played with 24-bit (high) quality stereo. then shows 100 eqs, 8 bands each (with stereo) == 1600 bands. the g5 handles it with only 25% usage. – by g5
|quality (3:03pm est mon jun 23 2003)
if you want quality get pentium, plan and simple! – by nacl
|uh? (3:06pm est mon jun 23 2003)
g5 images
im so putting neon lights inside this case hehe – by g5
|gimme more (3:07pm est mon jun 23 2003)
apple and ibm announce 3ghz g5 within next 12 months. – by g5
|re: macs suck (3:19pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i play games on my ps2 and xbox. and i can customize my computer all i want, you don't know a thing about macs do you? – by jason vorhees
|re: toldya (3:20pm est mon jun 23 2003)
aw… apple's using a photoshop benchmark? judging from those past ps benchmarks apple put out i guess the ppc970 is actually slow then… nutz. – by js
|just got home (3:21pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i had to leave the apple store after the photoshop demo.
after seeing what those puppies are capable and seeing the new developer tools, it's only a matter of time before the mac becomes a rock solid gaming system. after a few game developers see this monster, they will want to see what they can do with it.
many myths died today:
macs are slower. dead.
macs have less software. dead.
macs are too expensive. dead. – by that hated guy
|js… (3:26pm est mon jun 23 2003)
cheap shot. – by g5
|pick one (3:27pm est mon jun 23 2003)
if santa claus really existed which would you prefer: a prescott, g5 or amd 64 processor? make your wishes today !!! – by santa claus
|im so buying a dual today… (3:28pm est mon jun 23 2003)
shame it has to be august for delivery oh well…
wonder what the 980 will do if its rumored to be 4x faster…jez… – by macman
|it's a freaken box! (3:29pm est mon jun 23 2003)
the apple store has pictures of the g5 up… wtf happened with the cool cases of the g4? it's a freaken box with handles! god damnit!
and yes g5, that was a cheap shot, but a well deserved one. anyone who is going to site apple's benchmarks as proof of anything is living in a dream world. i'm looking at independant verification. – by js
|only 2 (3:38pm est mon jun 23 2003)
only two hds… again, disapointing. i like being able to have a terrabyte of data in my computer! i guess they want you to go for firewire 800 external drives. still, at least apple's going sata. it looks like there's only one drive bay for a cd-rom, which it going to make backing up cds or dvds a pain in the arse without an external writer. damn it, and it was sooo cool too. i was actually getting worked up about apple. too bad they had to f up the case design. – by js
|re:jason vorhees (3:38pm est mon jun 23 2003)
um, you didnt prove that macs can play games. i know that the pc is a far superior gaming platform than any console, and i'm still waiting for the mac to best it. i know that windows xp hasn't crashed on me yet, so what does mac have? thats right: nothing. – by macs suck
|js… (3:54pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i was a bit dissapointed at first but it has grown on me alot and i will be buying one as soon as the dam site lets me in…
the case is just amazing. it is so plain and simple… – by macman
|re: macman (3:59pm est mon jun 23 2003)
see, i don't see it as amazing, it reminds me a lot of the lianli cases. i'm thinking apple decided just to copy them and not spend any more money on design to keep the price down. resonable, but i wish they wouldn't have shafted the expandability. – by js
|haha (4:01pm est mon jun 23 2003)
why dont you put it in the case that you want? just buy one online and put it in the new case. – by wondering
|re: wondering (4:05pm est mon jun 23 2003)
probably because apple doesn't use the atx standard with its motherboards. it'd require me to either buy a case and then chop it up or fabricate my own. i'm not a modder though, so those are both beyond my abilities. – by js
|re: js (4:08pm est mon jun 23 2003)
anything that is a clean aluminium case is going to 'look like lianli', because lianli is so featureless… personally, i find the g5 design very industrial, the opposite of what the imac embodies. i know many architects who just loves this sort of design. it's too austere for me, but hey that's because i prefer psychedelia!! *groovy baby!! – by supperman
|re: supperman (4:16pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i'm not just refering to a clean aluminum face, i'm mainly refering to the fact that the outside is a grill, and thus really not all that clean. i'm not big on the majority of lianli cases because of their grills, and it is the same thing with this case. – by js
|guys (4:17pm est mon jun 23 2003)
dont everyone order the g5 today, space it out. you really dont want a 5 hardcore mac users to blow their wad at once. – by 2cent
|it's already smoked!!!! (4:22pm est mon jun 23 2003)
the new 970 g5 ppc beats the pants off of both dual pentium 4 3.0 & dual opteron 3.0 & this is with much lower power consumption, heat, etc. in single processor tests. it bests both of them in everything but integer nfp calculations, this in it's first generation. ibm says the next generation is already up and running. this thing is
outdated on introduction.
man, it felt sooooooo good to say that! – by nopczone
|some benchmarki dig up (4:23pm est mon jun 23 2003)
"every machine will come with dvd-r super drive"
"they will offer agp 8x pro, 133mhz pci-x slots, 1.5gbps serial ata with independent interfaces to each drive"
"for video, the geforce fx5200 is standard on low-end models, radeon 9600 pro on high-end models."
"itunes music store had sold 5 million song downloads since its inception eight weeks ago"
– by rotten apple
|re: rotten apple (4:38pm est mon jun 23 2003)
again, apple's benchmarks prove nothing, just as intel's or amd's prove nothing. they fall into the category of marketing. only quote benchmarks when independant users get their hands on it.
"'every machine will come with dvd-r super drive'
they should add "even if you don't need it". this is one of my problems with apple. sure, you get a lot of stuff with the system, but if you aren't going to use it then you're spending more money than you have to. trust me, the overwhelming majority of the population does not need a dvd burner. granted, apple is catering to a small sector, but it holds true that forcing everyone who buys your product into getting something expensive that they may not need is not good for the consumer. i should be able to forego the $200-$300 super drive and get a dinky $20 cd-rom. ok, $50 as it has to look nice and have the apple label plastered on it as well. if dvd-rs were only mildly more expensive you could say "great market sense". – by js
|lol… (4:44pm est mon jun 23 2003)
you guys kill me lol – by macman
|re: js (4:46pm est mon jun 23 2003)
"apple doesn't use the atx standard with its motherboards. it'd require me to either buy a case and then chop it up or fabricate my own. i'm not a modder though, so those are both beyond my abilities."
wow, that gave you a lot of credibility. i'll be sure not to listen to your uninformed opinions again. if you are too supid to rewire a power supply cable, you ain't much of a geek bubba. – by macmurphy
|re: rotten apple (4:46pm est mon jun 23 2003)
amd dual 242(1.6ghz not even the 244) owns apple by far
specfp_rate_base 20.0
compare to the 15.0/17.2 dual g5 2ghz benchmark scores on ur apple.com page
|re: macs suck (4:46pm est mon jun 23 2003)
some people do other things with their computer than game playing, i edit video with mine, and with the mac i get better performance with better software. i have an operating system that is solid. there are hardly any games that i even want to play that are not on the mac already. on a mac, you get a better internet browser, safari. programs don't just randomly close by themselves on a mac. my friend has that problem on his pc. but what is the point of me stating this? it's not you're going to change your mind or anything. you are just a mindless troll. oh well. – by jason vorhees
|re: macs *uck your momma (4:50pm est mon jun 23 2003)
if playing games is your main goal, yes macs have nothing to offer you. but then again most little kids living at home don't need to do much. i would love to hear your disertation on how playing games, being as important as it is to you, has improved your short life. btw be careful every time you sit you fat ass down to play games that you don't cause yourself brain damage. – by macmurphy
|how come… (4:50pm est mon jun 23 2003)
how come every mac user has a pc friend who's computer does really weird things?
i have this friend who got a mac and it locks up all the time. – by 2cent
|overpriced… (4:50pm est mon jun 23 2003)
wow, this place has changed a lot…
oh well, the chip is too much money, id buy it for $300 tops.. but not 650+
~filth~ – by black-syth
|re 2cent (4:53pm est mon jun 23 2003)
what os is it running? – by john
|re: macmurphy (4:59pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i'm looking at the pictures apple has for the interior of it's system. it looks like there are some ports situated right where you'd expect a drivecage to sit (can't be sure as there isn't a nice a nice technical diagram of it and they've added a wave pattern to the image). if so, that could be more than simply rewiring a power supply cable. i was also going by some photos which seemed to indicate that the pci-slots were located on top of the mac instead of the bottom, but it seems like those were misleading. – by js
|js… (5:02pm est mon jun 23 2003)
re the dvdr drive…
the same thing goes for the graphics card then dosent it? why bundle a top games playing card with the mac and make it more expensive? also, if you actually check out the website you'll find that you can have a build option of only dvd/cdr and the 9800 vid card… exactly what you were asking for :)
aren't you lucky? – by macman
|jedi x… (5:06pm est mon jun 23 2003)
amd owns the g5…hm…ill reserve judgement till the realworld scores come in. but if anybody is gonna 'own' the g5 ill be alot happier that its amd than intel. viva la competition [hehe – dont even go there]…
one thing tho. why is amd being squezed so badly by intel when it obviously has a far far superior product then intel? jedi? – by macman
|john… (5:08pm est mon jun 23 2003)
presumably the new 10.2.7…panther wont be out till later in the year…sniff… – by macman
|lol (5:09pm est mon jun 23 2003)
you gotta love all those idiots who eat up the "benchmarks" from apple's own website like pigs eating up slop.
oh well….. apple has brainwashed 'em good, i guess – by
|re: macman (5:13pm est mon jun 23 2003)
great, except that i was refering to the quote that rottenapple posted. the store wasn't working for me at the time, so when i went to check it i got a nice "website is not responding" page. not a lot of checking i could do then, now was there? – by js
|haha (5:19pm est mon jun 23 2003)
only pc's that *uck up are the ones that are made by idiots. oh, mr. mac murphy, thats the thing with pc's. you dont have to rewire the power supply. haha. loser. thats why we have pcs. for us who dont like to bow down to apple and take it up the butt. hey jason, there are different browsers for pc, like mozilla. and your friend is an idiot for leaving his pc like that. wow, leave the fat jokes at home because unfortunately, you don't have a clue how old i am, or how much i weigh.
games are still the future. you guys are just in denial because you suck at them. haha. don't hate me because i am better than you. – by macs suck
|omfg (5:23pm est mon jun 23 2003)
check this g5 system out, hell of it 13,000 us roflmao
– by culan
|superdrives (or not) (5:41pm est mon jun 23 2003)
if you order your g5, you can sub the cdrw drive for the superdrive. it also lowers the price. end of story. – by nopczone
|holy crap (5:46pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i checked out that g5 culan. wow thats expensive. although i would take two voodoo f-510-lcs over that thing any day. is that g5 even liquid cooled? – by macs suck
|re: macs suck (5:55pm est mon jun 23 2003)
wow, keep flexing your maturity there macs suck. :) i am actually good at games, still undefeated at halo. did anyone say they hated you? how is my friend leaving his pc like that? what can he do to fix it? mozilla is also available for mac. i have used both mozilla and safari and found safari to be faster. so instead of bowing down to apple, you are bowing down to microsoft? i enjoy games and movies equally so telling us that we are in denial makes no sense. – by jason vorhees
|re js (6:01pm est mon jun 23 2003)
does apple got a cheating background? no i doubt it. look at ati and nvidia claimed using optimization to get a better benchmark scores with 3dmark, now thats cheating and their syntheic benchmark means nothing. those 2 company dont have a moral standard and think everyone do the same thing. computer market use benchmark to compare their product to one another and which state some selling point. why everyone just not get a 3.2intel? as it released today. those numbers on the apple site seems very competetive and makes those intel/amd fanboi sh in their pants.
so you only trust benchmark posted by an amateur? what a paranoia. that dude prolly will exaggerate the number a bit and claim his gameing rig far more superior than every birdbrain on the planet. also different combo from the market yeild a different result motherboard gpu cpu etc. on the other hand apple is different, they had tailor made parts and limited operating system and hardware support. for which benchmark wont vary so much. – by rotten apple
|come on (6:02pm est mon jun 23 2003)
how did this intel news story turn into an apple orgy? – by intel_all_the_way
|re: culan and macs suck (6:04pm est mon jun 23 2003)
you do realize that is a system that is customized, with a lot of extra stuff, like 8 gigs or ram? – by blake
|price is right (6:09pm est mon jun 23 2003)
mac sucks, that culan setup is pricey and is totally ott, and u know it. the price of a dual 2ghz g5 isn't too bad, considering you have 2 top of the line processors (will be $1200 if you have 2x 3.2ghz p4), coupled with a dvd-r and a 160gb sata hdd. if you get the bundle from a company like hq or alienware, the price wouldn't be too different i'd imagine.
you say mac users bow down to apple, but don't you have to pay homage to microsoft yourself? especially since you obviously are not a linux user? you can rewire your power supply and god bless you not to kill yourself doing it, but most mac users have no desires to hack up anything to do with their lovely machines… you're just like bragging about a freezer to eskimos.
games maybe fun, but it's not everyone's future. some people are predicting the demise of pc gaming because of the assent of the console capabilities. your points are all moot and you're more and more like a troll. i know it's fun to get attention and stuff, but i seriously hope that you're not so narrowminded in person. – by supperman
|wwdc? (6:12pm est mon jun 23 2003)
what would dos compute? – by wwjd?
|dual 2 ghz power mac g5 ownz joo (6:13pm est mon jun 23 2003)
that is all…. – by mah cac
|re intel_all_the_way (6:19pm est mon jun 23 2003)
the apple writer shane, who work for geek prolly is away(attending wwdc mebbe)? so no one will post the g5 news. in turn this ogry thread gives the intelhatred group a chance to flame. listen!! intelworshiper y'all prolly needs to hide in the closet for 4-6 months til prescot come out before you have something to show. – by chicks dig mac
|macs and pcs (6:23pm est mon jun 23 2003)
that new mac sounds like an absolute beast- having used pro audio myself i know that those performance specs are impressive. the mac is a stylish dude also, and i think the people that use them are on the whole proffessional and/ or discerning. there is a small minority who i suspect are decadent and pretty shallow- creaming over cases but the pc has its fair share of t*ts also.
it's a shame that we can't combine the best of the best from both worlds but it aint gonna happen- as for macs becoming the future gaming platform of choice…get real. it might be a good thing but it's a bit fantastical. it's called de facto- the market place is a real behemoth to buck. games publishers don't even want to risk trying out a new plot line never mind a new platform.
i also agree that computer games are massively relevant. the modelling of reality is a serious exploit, it's been the pursuit of mathematicians and physicists for a long while. – by the daddy
|halo=suckage (6:49pm est mon jun 23 2003)
only losers play on the inferior graphics of the xbox. halo is an outdated game which doesnt take any skill. – by macs suck
|re macman (6:49pm est mon jun 23 2003)
"why is amd being squezed so badly by intel when it obviously has a far far superior product then intel? jedi? "
urmmm let me tell you americans like their computer's the same way as their cars and bodies.
overweighted, overpriced and inefficient – by jedi x
|new processers (6:49pm est mon jun 23 2003)
august/september are going 2 be gr8 with all the new processers coming out but i have a feeling that intel has something hiding in the dark i just hope that amd can hit them back and the athlon 64 is a success. if apple gets back amongst it 2 be honest in the uk i know no 1 with a apple mac things might hot up. – by bigman20uk
|damn foreigners (6:52pm est mon jun 23 2003)
hey shutup jedi. just because you are jealous you arent in america doesnt mean you have to go around spreading lies. id personally like to meet you and kick your @ss. – by go america
|jedi x… (6:57pm est mon jun 23 2003)
hahaha yo da man hahaha
– by macman
|re:chicks dig mac (6:58pm est mon jun 23 2003)
well said… mac users have have to endure abuse until today… now it's time for revenge! i still can't get over the fact that there won't be any pc equivalent until at least sept with a64! also, i think only longhorn will have support for pci-x bus and that is coming out what… 2005? hopefully more people will jump on the bandwagon and then the games will start to come! but isn't it such an irony that ibm and apple used to be rivals? now ibm is the benevolent giant that will save apple and amd… cool.
wtg apple! – by supperman
|re: macs suck (6:58pm est mon jun 23 2003)
outdated, inferior? have you seen the screen shots for halo 2? you are a true ignorant troll. halo is one of the best multiplayer games i have used. halo still has nice looking graphics even today. stop trolling, it makes you look like an idiot. – by jason vorhees
|ok ok enough (7:01pm est mon jun 23 2003)
people, calm down with the bashing. you have to admit if you read the specs/benches and/or watch the keynote that this new g5 tower kick some major booty, hands down. i like my pc configurations too but this this is a beast and you can get one for 2999. yeah you could make one that costs more (8gb ram, cough cough)
the 970/g5 and the apple tower are absurdly powerful for a consumer unit. they finally got away from motorola and it looks like it will pay.
be happy for the competition hardware wise and platform wise. it will do everyone good, except "platform fundamentalists" who can't admit that this has been a long time in the making, and that a little more balance is good thing.
and anyone paying attention knows macs have good apps, and to geek gamers… can you say frozen throne hybrid cd? – by it's all good
|re: rotten apple (7:09pm est mon jun 23 2003)
"does apple got a cheating background? no i doubt it."
when it comes to its photoshop benchmarks, you bet your g5 it does. it carefully selects the few filters the mac runs well on and then only tests those. a mac site even did a good test that shows how, depending on what functions you use, you can tilt an "overall" result in favor of the mac. it took a series of normal filters, applied them to an image, then went and coverted it from rgb to cmyk. the mac was faster overall, but the pc won in everything except cmyk conversions, where the mac trounced it and thus won. now take that test, strip out those filters, replace them with the very few that mac hardware is better at, and you have the apple photoshop benchmark.
thats why i say if jobs is that concerned about his hardware he still needs his horribly biased photoshop benchmark then the ppc 970 may not be everything its cracked up to be. and, forgive me, my dictionary is slightly out of date, but when did the word "independant" mean "amature"? – by js
|re: js (7:22pm est mon jun 23 2003)
if you look at apple's website, you will see that they did other benchmarks besides photoshop. – by jack
|re js (7:45pm est mon jun 23 2003)
"it took a series of normal filters, applied them to an image, then went and coverted it from rgb to cmyk. the mac was faster overall, but the pc won in everything except cmyk conversions, where the mac trounced it and thus won."
-seems like you still live in your dream, this is not the p4 2.0ghz vs g4 battle. i remembered p4 2.0 best out g4 everything in photoshop 6 except that, it was true. but g4 didn't devolop to their full potential and adapt to the market until g5 hits the market.
but this is p4 3.0ghz vs g5. benchmark used (((45))) photoshop 7.0.1 actions, including file saving, image adjustments, mode changes, and filters. ie rgb to cmyk, image reduction, colour halftone, waterfilter, radial blur, gausssian blur, unsharp mask, despeckle, lighting effect and clockwise rotation, etc. is it more independant to you? – by rotten apple
|100th post !!!!! (7:46pm est mon jun 23 2003)
so all you 1st poster is jealous??? dont you muhahhhhahrhhahrhahrhahrhar – by 100th poster
|re: rotten apple (8:10pm est mon jun 23 2003)
yup, that's the apple photoshop benchmark(tm). other groups that didn't use that benchmark more often than not came up with the pc winning. i'm saying, if the ppc 970 is so much better, apple does not need to use that engineered benchmark anymore.
re: jack
|re: js (8:16pm est mon jun 23 2003)
if you want more hardrivev space you can always connect an xserve raid and get a shitload that way. – by john
|benchmarks (8:17pm est mon jun 23 2003)
– by jack
|i'm gonna switch!!! (8:25pm est mon jun 23 2003)
after seeing the new g5 systems i'm ditchin the pc. i've always wanted a mac but the power just wasn't there. now that the g5 is out, it's time. :) :) :) – by happy days
|mac games (8:35pm est mon jun 23 2003)
i didn't know oregon trail needed so much power. – by mingisback
|re: mingisback (8:49pm est mon jun 23 2003)
actually, macs have more than oregon trail. avp2, unreal tournament 2k3, warcraft 3, just to name a few. not everyone uss their comput3ers to play games. – by bob
|re: jack (9:09pm est mon jun 23 2003)
just to comment, if you want to compare performance in scientific apps between the mac and x86 (as apple does on its site) you want to go with an amd processor, not a p4. an athlon kills a northwood at those tests. so, i wouldn't base a claim "fastest personal computer" by running dna sequencing software on a dell against a mac. again, i'm not saying that the g5 is slow, i'm saying i do not trust the conclusions apple wants you to draw.
re: john
|re: bob (9:21pm est mon jun 23 2003)
relax man, that was a joke if you couldn't tell. i'm a mac user myself and i know of the games on the platform. – by mingisback
|re: mingisback (9:58pm est mon jun 23 2003)
lol, good man :) figured you were another pc troll. – by john
|lol (10:13pm est mon jun 23 2003)
trolls are so funny. "mac's suck. the case sucks, no the inside. mac benchmarks don't mean anything, except pc….). no one cares about your insults. during the early '90's you might have fooled a few execs, but today everyone just thinks your funny. – by lol
|re: lol (11:04pm est mon jun 23 2003)
man, so nice to know that you can't actually read posts. a: the case does suck, both the outside and the expandability options (though it is clean inside). its a box on stilts. and after so many mac fans have been raving about how awesome mac case design is and how boring pcs look, suddenly being a plain metal box is cool. b: i said i don't care about benchmarks that come from apple or intel or amd, not that "mac benchmarks don't mean anything, except pc." damn, see what you do? this fanaticisim is starting to make me hate apple again. just because someone does not think jobs is an infalible genius does not make them a troll. geeze, the same thing happens when someone says mhz actual do matter to amd fans (and if you don't believe me, you build a cpu that runs at 0hz and see the performance you get). it seems the only group that can actually take criticism are intel supporters. may the platform of your choice die a horrible death! – by js
|re: js (11:20pm est mon jun 23 2003)
whether or not the case sucks is a matter of personal preference, expandability options suck? i didn't know that being able to expand to 8 gigs of ram sucked. oh well, heres just no pleasing some people. – by mr. bones
|js (11:28pm est mon jun 23 2003)
sarcasm. no one cares about the case but a troll. everyone cares about benchmarks except a troll when the benchmarks go against him. no one cares about jobs but a wintel troll. you don't hate apple, you just get paid to write bs. i don't use macs, just think you are funny. no one believes you, but you get upset. lol you're a joke we like to make fun of. – by lol
|cool! (12:00am est tue jun 24 2003)
i'm getting paid to write this? why didn't someone tell me! how much?
"i didn't know that being able to expand to 8 gigs of ram sucked." it doesn't, but what's more likely, someone needing a third harddrive, or someone needing 8 gigs of ram? someone needing a second disk drive, or someone needing 8 gigs of ram? do the extra four slots really take up that much space?
and lol, since you obviously don't believe me, suicide is not the answer. – by js
|re: js (12:02am est tue jun 24 2003)
there are plenty of other ways to get more hardrives, besides, you can fit up to 500 gb inside of the g5, i will never use that much. – by mr. bones
|power mac baby (12:08am est tue jun 24 2003)
hey js,
u see the new macs? ha ha ha! pentium is ssscrrrappp!! where's the itanium? i can't seem to find it anywhere? or windows 64? yeeehhhhhaaaaaa!!!!! mac forever. – by sfx
|man… (12:14am est tue jun 24 2003)
what happened, did all the mac users come out of the rock they were hiding under. finally a nice simple case are they going to out of their way and tell the world that lianli copied them? – by gpc guy
|well, hey!!! (12:28am est tue jun 24 2003)
you mac guys go have fun doing your video editing, i'll go play some games. then when i'm done i'll download all the videos i want. they'll all be there because the mac users made them.
saves me time and i get to have fun. – by whatever
|wow (12:28am est tue jun 24 2003)
all these mac users. everyone can't be wrong. i don't really hate macs, i just don't like the idea of one whole company controlling everything on my computer. that may be apple, or microsoft, or whatever. here's hoping that all games get ported to macs and linux!
my old name used to be macs suck. i havent thought of a good one yet. – by macs arent that bad
|re: whatever (12:53am est tue jun 24 2003)
i have fun not worrying about things not working on my computer. – by richard seal
|970 new rules (1:14am est tue jun 24 2003)
ok, i don't post all that much and i see some familiar names out here so i just gotta speak my mind on this momentous occasion. look, i don't wanna sit up here and preach (too late) about how great the new macs are but they are. the real question i want to pose is this: why can't the two companies who control 85-95% of the market share compete in the 64 bit arena? because they're too self-assured and arrogant. and just downright dirty sometimes. the two underdog (but still formidable) companies in the computing world (amd and mac) have teamed up with the ibm juggernaut to produce the technology of the future.
mac and amd are leaking the way because it's a question of survival. wintel is fat and happy, so naturally they're lazy too. i can care less about what the new mac case looks like or whether or not it can hold a gig of hdd. if you want storage just get a damn firewire 800 drive and daisy chain devices to it. the point is that they did something revolutionary but intel fans will never see it. and as for the vaporware itanium it doesn't even support 32 bit and windows 64 is slated for a 2005 release. ok, just what i'd expect from the "greatest" computer companies in the world.
i guess that all i'm trying to say is that i'm happy because now everybody is gonna start writing for mac because mac is now the industry standard. actually, it always was except for moto's lousy processors. mac and amd will flourish, and so will unix os's, so i'm happy 'cause the underdogs won this battle and i knew they would.
p.s. i especially like mac because when i reinstall the os for whatever reason i don't have to call anybody to get permission. if there's one thing that truly pisses me off about microsoft, it's that.
– by sfx
|re: mr bones (1:15am est tue jun 24 2003)
if you're not going to use 500gb, then you're probably also not going to need more than 2gb of ram, let alone 8. plus, you'd be surprised at how many people do not get a big 250 hd on their first go, but later start stacking on the drives. i thought the g4 was great when it came to that, but with the reduction from 4 available slots to two the g5 is looking to be targeted more as a home computer than a workstation. it just doesn't make sense. you've got powerful hardware and the capacity for 8gbs of ram, yet the case design is not configured to be a workstation.
but thank you for bringing to my attention that there are plenty of other ways to get more hard drives attached. you know, i obviously didn't think about that when i said "i guess they want you to go for firewire 800 external drives" when i first brought up the subject.
sfx: uh, yeah! and if i had any devotion to intel or microsoft that might have… wait, no it wouldn't, nevermind. – by js
|re: js (1:22am est tue jun 24 2003)
my point was that the g5 is more expandable than you give it credit for. so what if you can't get more than 2 internal hardrives, there are other ways, as i stated to get hardrive space. external usb, firewire 400, 800, raid ect. – by mr. bones
|re: mr. bones (1:39am est tue jun 24 2003)
considering i brought up external expandability at the same time as my complaint with the lack of slots, i can't see how you can say that i'm not giving it enough credit. i also don't really like the idea of spending 50-100% more for an additional hard drive, but i'm just wierd like that. also, you currently have a limited choice in terms of firewire800 drives available, and firewire/high speed usb drives don't perform as well as most ide drives, let alone the potential for sata. you could do an xserve like john suggested a while back, but there's even more money, or i could do what wondering suggested and throw the mac into a standard atx case, wire up the powersupply and void my warrenty on a $3000+ piece of equipment right out of the gate (i'd get a minimum of 2gb ram for the machine). there are a load of expandability options, but they are inferior to what the g4 had. – by js
|whats with the garbage (1:44am est tue jun 24 2003)
why is everyone argueing, its like you dont even see eachother as human or something. as for my opinion, i couldnt care less as long as it doesnt go out of date within 2 years, and is stable (xp pro is fine for me). i am a gamer so its gatta play all the newest games, so a 9800 pro on a 3ghz p4 system is plenty for me. i hardly do any video editing and if i did, im never dealing with anything very big and there is plenty of time, do you all forget that you spend like a third of your lives asleep, so like it matters if it takes that long besides people that require the speed for companies that are depended on by thier costomers. it doesnt really matter how fast the fastest amd or pentium goes anymore, there fast enough for a gamer or average person. – by beatingu
|i'm bill (1:49am est tue jun 24 2003)
hey i'm bill. g as many of you know, i'm the owner of microsoft. let me tell you that intell 3.2ghz is nothin…
i personally have an gates 6.4 ghz cpu. all of you losers out there paying for this are stupid. i got mine for free! opps since i own the company – by gates
|ram vs storage (2:33am est tue jun 24 2003)
if you're not going to use 500gb, then you're probably also not going to need more than 2gb of ram, let alone 8
maybe, but i have run into this funny thing before called a radiaosty render and with 1.2 gb or ram it still beat the crap out of the computer. it only produces a little picture file which doesn't take much hard drive room, but the ram might still be useful.
btw, your right a firewire drive would cost more, but speed wise even my older version firewire drives are very fast, let alone an 800, so in that department its good. yeah, i would like to see a bigger tower version, but maybe one will come. this was a big jump right here i am not going to complain. – by there are cases
|g5 question (2:42am est tue jun 24 2003)
hey macman i saw a good preview on that mac seems like there using some technology amd is currently using which is cool like hypertransport and silicon on insulator and i bet mac software developers will be more inspired to write 64 bit code than microsoft making a freaken 64 bit version of windows for the athlon 64/opteron i hope microsoft pulls through or im kidnapping bill gates and beat him sensless till he uses his almighty power to "inspire" game developers to make 64 bit games and just for the hell of it make a 64 bit office i really dont care that much for it but what the hell.
anyways so mac has a 1ghz fsb guess we got some mac people here thats cool and some hardware analysts here also thats cool u guys saw that there are using ddr 400 is it dual channeled and what happened to that 200 extra mhz if it is dual channeled u know i mean pentium 4 got 800 but there using dual channel ddr 400 controllers to get 800mhz fsb where is that extra 200mhz going to. it aint going to the memory because there using ddr 400 is it going to the i/o hub or something like the opteron does which has independent bus just going to the memory and all the i/o devices are being feed through hypertransport coming from the i/o hub because if it is thats cool also opterons increase there fsb since all of them got integrated mem controllers so u got 2 opterons u got 666fsb if u got 3 opterons u got 999mhz i hope they make a mp version of athlon 64 that be hot. seems like ibm are helping the underdogs kick intels a$$ go ibm.
also here is an irony i read a story that intel was making fun of the amd opteron for having a bigger chip then i read another story saying that prescott got a bigger die. if thats true intel execs must feel dumb.
anyways macs got gamez what has this mac hater been smoken. but mac gamers are underserved because pcs ends up with the best gfx card first which kinda sucks for mac users who want to play gamez on there machines. ati left them with a 9600pro come on i mean cpu does do alot of work in games but so does the gfx card also i read a story that gfx cards are needed in hdtv forgot the rest of the article but it made sense when i read it was like 3 months back.
also it seems like we got like computer cults these days. u got the extreme linux people extreme mac people extreme amd people (i fit in that group screw intel) i mean computers are tools we use plain and simple no reason to hate people for using macs amd intel windows linux ect so what if linux or mac didnt work for u it worked for them i might get me one of them g5s or install some linux os i keep on looking for something new and explore new ways to get things done better there is no reason to hate i mean whats the point oh i got the best comp machine out there im going to own u in games hey the computer doesnt add on skills unless u cheaten and u got some denial problem. its funny because back in the nintendo days everyone had the same system practically and all we taked about was how good the games were now we got the pc,xbox,ps2, and gamecube and people started becoming more divided.
anyways sorry about that if someone can answer that mac question id greatly appriciate it. – by caliber fx
|too risky….!!!!!! (4:30am est tue jun 24 2003)
these chips'll probably start a house fire.
since i don't happen to have any liquid nitrogen handy i'll pass on these things.
i bet they did this in response to apple announcing the g5.
they should've passed on making this thing. it just made them look bad, in the long run. – by tazz
|js… (5:04am est tue jun 24 2003)
first off i'd like to say that the 'cult' wars in the platform discussions are cool. its like the new 'geek' religion…
lian-li cases are nothing even close to this case my friend. i've built a few computers (pc0 in my time and even used their cases. your lack of style/taste is letting the pc side down, so please don't defend us. i realize its a case of personal tastes but that case does not suck. i can just see myself replacing that door with perspex…mm nice.
second. i dont think that you can possibly use your computer for anything but saving alot of games on your harddrive…500 gig or even 360 gig is plenty for software installations. you will never need more than that! ever period.
all pro users will use external drives. videoeditors and music engineers will always use fast rackmountable storage. one reason for this is so you can easily move projects across to a different system. now if you are talking home enthusiasts thats a different matter….you said it was a home system not pro hm.
sciantists and professionals that run with 500gig plus drives and have that amount of data will almost always use a raid system to protect their data. not a fast raid but a redundant setup so that if one drive would fail it can be pulled out and replaced without loosing any data.
i really think you are talking the most amount of bs i have ever heard i'm sorry to say.
personally i will stick with amd for now but i will check the g5 out for sure. if it meets my needs and i can get the software that i need to run i will switch. pure and simple.
all i need now is an excuse to buy that beast :) – by j.s. bach
|j.s. bach (1:14pm est tue jun 24 2003)
first off, i agree totally with you, js is full of it. i think he gets paid by intel to post to these sites (constantly) and talk about how great their crappy hardware is.
anything over 500 gig of storage isn't a workstation, it's a server. that's not what the g5 is built for. as for 8 gig of ram, did it ever occur to some people that yes, most people don't need it but some may (cg), and that it's not so much the 8 gig ceiling but it's the 8 open slots. this allows for putting in a bunch of smaller modules so you can reach 3-4 gigs of ram alot cheaper than if you only had 4 slots to use (which is the case with most pc mobo designs). about the limited # of pci-x slots: with so many ports and integrated hardware built into the case already, what else do you really need to put in? a fibre channel card? a scsi card? extra usb? extra monitor cards? seriously, what else would you want to add that would require more slots than it already has?
i also have another issue: if hammer was in development for so long and delayed so many time then why is it that now that it's out it's gonna take microsoft until 2005 to port a 64 bit os for it? until then it's linux, unix or nada. i'll tell you why because ms isn't gonna create a 64 bit os until intel's 64 bit chip is out. that's so lame. the opteron and the athlon64's true potential will never be realized running on 32 bit software. amd will suffer more losses from the mainstream crowd waiting on these dicks. luckily, ibm will integrate the processor into enterprise and specific educational and supercomp projects, but amd's name will again be obscured from public knowledge. i also bet that intel "borrows" a lot from the hammer architecture to get their 64 bit project into the real world and beyond. what a bunch of scums.
i don't hate pcs, i actually like building them. i just hate scumbag business practices because it's what is ruining this country. and i'm still pissed about having to call microsoft and beg for permission any time i want to reinstall their stupid, unstable $300.00 spyware operating system. – by sfx
|… (4:06pm est tue jun 24 2003)
1st i throw you roughly on the bed. then i pee on your head screaming 'house on fire', 'house on fire', and you go home with a size 13 poop shoot. – by 2cent
|sorry (4:07pm est tue jun 24 2003)
i meant poop chute. – by 2cent
|whatever (5:38pm est tue jun 24 2003)
call me an intel shill if you want, the fact is i was right to question apple�s benchmarks:
i�m not saying these articles are correct. after all, they don�t have a g5 sitting in front of them to test, and i would expect the g5 to be faster than an intel or amd 32-bit comp, but both raise questions about how the results were reached.
for the case, after looking at the marketing for the g5 it looks like apple consciously hobbled it so that it could classify the g5 as a desktop and not a workstation, that way they could use the phrase �first 64-bit.� expect it to be redesigned once the phrase�s novelty wears off.
|js your right. (6:10pm est tue jun 24 2003)
both of these sites admit to being biased against macs. both have printed fud often in the past about apple. they are run by companies sponsored to write such articles.
the word misleading keeps being brought up. the both openly admit that apple did not do anything wrong, just did not skew benchmarks in their sponsors favor.
each adds their own benchmarks then conviently leaves out the link to their process. basicly, the idea is to discredit benchmarks when they are not in your favor, and make up new results with no evidence.
why is it when benchmarks don't go in your favor, then benchmarks don't count? we need benchmarks and always have. the pretty story of the boy and his ti really hits to the point that it's not about benchmarks, anything but. this is a common wintel practice in it meetings. when your sale is failing tell some story and make the customer get you back on the subject. the industry needs benchmarks and when your sponsors are on top, your going to say that benchmarks are the only test. as funny as it is, most it is really just sick of the liars, cheats and stealers. – by lol
|re: lol (7:42pm est tue jun 24 2003)
and sometimes even when benchmarks go in my favor i'll say they don't count. i'm just telling people don't take apple's, or any other company's, word for it. wait for the darn things to actually be released and then listen to the general public. if you're going to look at benchmarks, don't take it from one source, but get as many as you can and see what happens overall on the applications you run. yet apparently this concept is so radical i have to be a troll to offer it. also, the g5 ain't gonna be out until august, provided amd doesn't paper launch the athlon 64 will be out a month after, and then prescott comes in october. not only is the available data limited, but the playing field the g5 will compete on hasn't even started to develop.
sure, current mac users could care less about how the apple performs compared to an x86 (unless the apple performs better, of course). steve's claims of 2.3x faster in photoshop or his spec scores are not for them. it's for people like me who were actually considering switching. honestly, with the crap i've been getting because i won't drink the kool-aid jobs has been handing out i don't want to be called a mac user. they can have the g5 and os x. – by js
|re js (8:30pm est tue jun 24 2003)
good, you wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. you're too bought into the wintel program, man. and what the hell are you talking about "current mac users could care less about how the apple performs compared to an x86 (unless the apple performs better, of course)"? what does that mean? how the hell could we not care how it performs compared to an x86 when that's all we hear about all day? "mac sucks, macs are slower than pcs, macs are unstable, macs aren't for real computer users……blah blah." whatever is right son, i'm sticking with the first and the best and i don't care about benchmarks, i can tell by just reading the specs that this thing is serious. it's odd because it's in a class all by itself, and you know what? number 1 is an odd number. – by sfx
|re: sfx (9:37pm est tue jun 24 2003)
i know you're a troll, but i'll feed you anyway. i'm surprised to hear that i wouldn't know what to do with a g5. and after i've had so many mac users telling me how intuitive it is and how it has a superior workflow to any other operating systems. if i can't figure it out after windows, linux, and my considerable experiance with os 9 in the past, the g5 must be an absolute nightmare to use. sure, i haven't had all that much time on an os x machine, but i didn't imagine it was that difficult.
and if mac users really do care and, then why this mantra "i don't care if a pc is faster, i find the mac easier to use?" especially if the mac really isn't easier to use as you imply. have all you mac users been lying? if so, why should i believe a word out of your mouth now? – by js
|cool – mobile internet (10:38pm est tue jun 24 2003)
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– by – by – by – by fu luka
|re: js (11:48pm est tue jun 24 2003)
oh, what's the matter? did i hit a nerve? i never implied that osx isn't easier to use, it's a dream come true. what i did say is that it isn't for a person like you. everything you've said so far validates that. i'm just sick of you because you're a know-it-all and a group ideologist. don't you get it? mac users use macs because they're designed better and they can, because they don't have to be a slave to microsoft and intel's garbage.
this freedom was worth a trade-off in system speed, but we don't even have to sacrifice that anymore. we're sitting back and laughing now for once. will it last? maybe not….i'm sure m$ and intel will figure ut how to steal, i mean "borrow", all these great innovations and try to make them their own, but not today. we're on the top of the food chain and we get to say that we were right all along. and i'm a troll? ummmm….no. i'm an artist, and a technician. so have a happy nice day :) – by sfx
|lol! (12:24am est wed jun 25 2003)
hehe, you're calling me a group ideologist! ah, now there's a pot calling a kettle black if ever there was one! about time i actually got some laughter from this thread. you should consider adding "commedian" to your list of occupations. – by js
|"commedian" (1:15am est wed jun 25 2003)
it's spelled "comedian", and you know what? my friends do find me funny, i'm pretty popular at parties :) bye. – by sfx
|nice (2:22am est wed jun 25 2003)
hey, i didn�t criticize you when you spelled �out� �ut.� and you just used the incorrect contraction of �it is�. it is not �it�s�, it is �its�. �it�s� is the possessive. unless you want me spell checking your work in the future i�d be careful if i were you. – by js
|dah! (2:24am est wed jun 25 2003)
nevermind about the "it's" thing, it late and brain not work good as day me better think. – by js
|macs are useless pieces of silicon and should be burned! (2:26am est thu jun 26 2003)
when a mac can actually run windows and run benchmarks against intel and amd (since most of the meaningful and well known benchmarks are on the windows platform), then all the mac fan boys can talk about how great mac's are. but until then shut up and get a life or even beter get a pc, i don't care if it is intel or amd, get a pc. let apple computers, the mac's and the g5 or any processor named after rip. – by shadowninja52
|amd? pentium? when??? whatever (6:51pm est sun jul 06 2003)
hey since when did this turn into a mac thread? so anyway, i gotta wonder if intel might delay the "new" prescott until like 2004 so they can keep raping ppl on the new 800fsb p4's. i hope amd can come in with something good to push them – by asdf(1)
|why it's so hot? (2:18am est tue apr 27 2004)
i just bought myself a brand new pentium 4 2.8c ghz that supports hyper-threading…is it enough with having one additonal regular fan for my casing and opened both side of the casing…as i have done it…it's still hot (normal temp= 40+, if play games=55+), my motherboard beeps (indicating that temp is high) when i play game after an hour… – by zaki, student


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Urban Dinosaurs by Andy Council
Did I see trafficjamosaurus there somewhere? Designer Andy Council of Bristol, England, created a series of urban dinosaurs in which he imagined prehistoric creatures arising from the urban landscape of skyscrapers and highways.
Link | Andy's blog and Flickr page, where you can find many more neat stuff - via My Modern Met
Newest 2 Comments
For some reason these made me want to play Katamari...
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These are very cool!
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subset: commoncrawl


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Where do I Find Technical Updates for Synergy MCUs?
Latest Updated:10/13/2016
Where do I find the Technical Updates for Synergy MCUs?
You can find Technical Updates by navigating to the MCU page of the MCU of interest and selecting the Documentation Tab. One of the filter choices is Technical Update. Check that box and do a Search. All associated Technical Updates will appear. An example is shown below from the S1 Series page: https://www.renesas.com/produc...1-series.html#
Suitable Products
|Synergy MCUs


text:
The trigger for this project was our observation of a phenomenon whereby grievance is both generated and harnessed in the pursuit of commercial profit or other gain. For instance, newspapers that whip up a sense of grievance in their readers and use it to write yarns and sell papers back to them. We're calling this the "grievance industry" and we'll be analysing examples of this as part of the Project.
But as Stephen and I fleshed out this and other related ideas, we quickly realised we needed to define exactly what we meant by "grievance".
We started by listing specific examples of what seemed self-evidently to be grievances. Some are quite tangible: you are aggrieved because someone punched you in the face, someone cut you off in traffic, or someone broke into your house and stole your stuff. In these cases an identifiable second party's actions directly cause your sense of grievance. There are also examples where the perpetrator and the action are less specific: your power bills keep going up, or you are fundamentally disadvantaged by societal power structures.
Then we looked into the origin of the word. Grievance is a Middle English word, out of the Old French grever which means "to burden"; aggrieved is from the Old French aggrever which means "to make heavier", which is itself out of the Latin aggravare meaning "heavy".
Knowing this etymology helped us to shape our conceptualisation of grievance for this project. And so we speak of grievance as a weight or burden carried by an individual, caused by the real or perceived wrongdoing by another person, group of people, or entity of non-specific people (such as a company, the state, "the system" or "society"). It then follows that an aggrieved person, carrying the weight of grievance, will seek to unburden themselves of that weight. As such, we see grievance as a two-part process of injury and attempted redress.
The Grievance Project is about unpacking what causes us to feel aggrieved, how we deal with those grievances, what influences these processes, and how they are changing.


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Matthew Marks Gallery
523 W. 24th St.
Tue.-Sat. 10 a.m.-6 p.m.
Through Dec. 24
Courtesy of Matthew Marks Gallery, New York City
With Point, 1985, oil on linen, 102 1/8 x 69 in., Terry Winters provided a harbinger of things to come with a greater emphasis on color than his other, drawing-centered work from the mid-1980s displayed.
Organic, earthy 1980s flora, fauna
The early days before Terry Winters interests in drawing yielded to color concerns
By Stephen Mueller
Strangely, there are currently a number of shows around town of 80s art.
One of the best is the Matthew Marks show of Terry Winters paintings and drawings from 1981 to 1986. These are some of the earliest paintings that Winters showed in New York. The palette is dark and evokes a primordial ooze, the womb of all life.
At the time, Winters was very interested in botanical and other scientific illustrations as source material. In the age-old controversy over the supremacy of drawing or color in painting, Winters would definitely be in the drawing camp. Even within the areas of so-called background, a draftsmans hand is evident.
Using the scientific illustration as a springboard, Winters improvises, combines and extrapolates, often revising forms after arriving at a hybridized or even new species. Pinecone, limb, stem and cell structures sometimes become insect or even human forms. This is not really the stuff of anthropomorphic grace, but rather some weird science drawn and redrawn out of the forming miasma.
The levels of layering and redrawing become a kind of Bildungsroman of the creation myths. All of the drawings and paintings in this show were done years before the work Winters showed in a 1991 Whitney Museum exhibition. By that time, color had become of greater importance in his work and form had become clearer. The oil painting Point in the present show is a bit of a harbinger of things that followed.
The Whitney show received less than an enthusiastic response by some critics. Daunted but not undone, Winters work began to give form to binary information systems. A soundtrack started to include European jazz systems. In short, the less lyrical work of the past ten years was born.
I raise this background information to demonstrate that painting is not only a process in itself, but that the artist is also involved in a process of garnering and responding to information and living. The current show at Matthew Marks provides a rare glimpse of some of the beginnings of a beautiful process.
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text:
Sleightly Smoking Podcast
About This Show
OC's Premier magic podcast produced by Sleightly Smoking Magic Threads and Co-Hosted by Magicians Jordan Groll and Jack Murdock. This podcast is interview style where we bring on some of the best and brightest in the Magic community today and dig deep picking their brains and how they think. The podcast is focused on providing value and helping you to accelerate the learning process as a modern day magician. If you're looking to take your magic to the next level and be entertained by humorous magic stories, this is the podcast for You!Read more »


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I have an HP ze4547wm 2.4 Ghz Celeron (512MB ram) notebook computer. I know that Celeron's are pretty notorious for overheating, and mine pushes the limit. I tracked my CPU & HDD temps yesterday with Everest and they peaked at 76°C and 56°C respectively. The fan is noticably loud, but not so loud that it sounds like its going bad. It wouldn't be a big deal except that I use my laptop for home recording, and all the fan noise bleeds over onto the tracks.
I'm going to give my laptop a good throrough cleaning tonight, but is there any other way I can lower the temp on my laptop, or more importantly lower the noise level?? Is it a feasible solution to replace laptop coolant fans or is it just too much of a pain?
thanks ->dan


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Another from my part of the May Splitcoaststampers Dirty Dozen gallery:
I wanted to make a page remembering this time of so much excitement with joining the Dirty Dozen, and the Build-a-Fairytale seemed like the fitting thing to do :)
I created my base with my usual layering, distressing and sewing. Then I added the green "grassy" part by ruffling up the scalloped cardstock in strips. Then I layered the different die-cut pieces and attached them with different foam squares and such for different depths. Then I added some bling and the journaling, and that was pretty much it :)
|Stamps: SU Once Upon a Time
|Paper: SU Build-a-Fairytale die-cuts; SU Chocolate Chip DSP; Creative Memories cardstock
|Ink: Staz-on Black
|Accessories: Ranger Stickles; Doodlebug and Kaisercraft rhinestones; misc. trims and lace
I know it's probably tiresome to see all of these from past months, but I hope you'll be patient as I add my favorites from my Dirty Dozen galleries :)
Thanks for visiting, and Happy Halloween!!


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Dear Readers,
I am a simple and silent reader of the Holy Bible. God gave me varied experience during my childhood, girlhood and womanhood days of my life. But it was a passing glory. The joy and peace comes through His Word which dispels the darkness of our lives.
I hailed from a small village, born of the parents of Social Workers in the Southern most part of Tamil Nadu, Chennai, India. I was an English Teacher and Soft Skill Trainer, teaching all stages of children from Kindergarten to Post Graduation students.
At the age of fifty five I started the reading the Holy Bible with the help of His Spirit and this is the outcome of it.
Today I am touched, healed,saved and blessed with His strength and power. His mercy strengthens me. His grace empowers me. Please pray that this website glorifies His name alone. Glory be to God
This website is dedicated to my grand children and to all the children of the world.
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
(Matthew 18 : 3)
Note: Bible reading, Sing along and Videos are linked to the websites. Please click to go through them. All the Scripture references are also linked. Thank you.
Joyous Reading!


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"Genuine Four Leaf Clover Plants are Now Available" read the headline on the press release. The "now" part is hooey. Genuine four leaf clovers have been around all through my time.
The trick always was finding one.
Mother could spy one while riding to the field on the hay rack. Brother was accused of driving too slow as he raked the straw in the new seeding. Turned out he was spotting four leaf clovers from the tractor seat. He was right-proud of the handful he'd plucked, until dad got after him for impeding harvest progress. "If you find one, sometimes you find a whole plant full," brother claimed.
A California lad is cashing in on that notion. In 2006, Kevin Donahue, age 11, joined forces with his dad Michael Donahue to launch Four Leaf Clover Plants. The company is a father and son partnership in the town of Cambria on California's central coast.
The Donahues are peddling and shipping genuine clover plants with four leaves to U.S. addresses. The plant is trifolium repens clover, with leaves and flowers resembling common clover. It's not oxalis or some other look-alike plant. Every pot of the exotic plant comes with several four leaf clover leaves. A well-tended pot can produce hundreds of four leaf clovers, suitable for drying, in just a few months' time.
Common clover has about one four leaf for every 10,000 three leaves. These clover plants have about one four leaf for every 7 to 21 three leaves, according to Donahue.
Young Donahue saw an opportunity. With as bit of preparation, he's cashing in.
Expanding possibilities. With St. Patrick's Day and March Madness both upon us, maybe one could use a handful of four leaf clovers to give one's favorite basketball team a lift.
Someone will surely think taking a handful along when buying a lottery ticket will improve the odds. Mother thought of that. She tried it. It didn't work.
All her life she kept looking for that elusive leprechaun that her granddaddy left behind in the old country. She wanted to catch him and have him take her to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
She never caught the little rascal. But she always had her dreams. Come Friday, we can all dream of raking in the Irish green - at least for a day.
Don't make light of the luck of the Irish. While I'm here frittering away my lunch hour attempting - not particularly successfully - to write something funny about the Irish dependence on four leaf clovers for luck, a pipe in the kitchen springs a leak.
The message - he who tries to make light of the luck of the Irish eventually pays.


text:
Contract Lawyer
Counsel clients on the proper way to write contracts.
What does a Contract Lawyer do?
Contracts come in a plethora of forms, but they all have one thing in common: they can be exceedingly complicated to write, understand, and apply. That's not a problem for you though. With their eye for detail and understanding of contract law, Contract Lawyers can filter through the grime and find the gem in any contract.
Contract Lawyers offer advice to businesses and individuals on the proper way to structure contracts. If you're a Contract Lawyer, you have an intricate knowledge of the law and know how to include pertinent information and clauses that protect your client against accusations of fraud or breach of contract.
On a typical day, you might meet with a Business Owner to formulate a contract for a shipping agreement, evaluate a tenant- Landlord agreement for another client, appear in court to represent a case, and compose a letter to an employer on behalf of an ex-employee. These are just a few examples of the myriad contracts you work with.
Within this field, you may specialize in one area, such as civil or business contracts. Regardless of your area though, you help formulate accurate and legally binding contracts that protect your client's interests.
In addition, you represent them if the contract is disputed. When that happens, you review every minute detail of the case, correspond with opposing Counsel and the courts, advise your client, and work towards a settlement. If an agreement can't be reached outside of court, you represent your client in front of the Judge.


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One of my favorite chapters in the bible. My heart feels warm and fuzzy at "I have called you by name. You are mine. When you go through deep waters, I will be with you."
Can we rest in that for a moment?
"I have called you by name. You are mine. When you go through deep waters, I will be with you."
Life definitely has it's ups and downs, but I am so grateful that I do not have to experience this roller coaster alone. I am so grateful that the challenges that life bring aren't going to last forever and that God fulfills His promises. I am so grateful that I have someone much stronger than me, fighting on my behalf, consoling me when I'm crying, and encouraging me when I feel broken.
You're not alone. It may feel that way and you may even be thinking, "where is God in all of this?" He's with you. I've learned that just because you believe in God, it doesn't mean that you wouldn't go through some rough things. God never promised that we would escape the troubles of this world. We'll be challenged, we'll be judged, we'll feel sad, but we will overcome through Him.
I am saying this also to myself. We all have challenges. Just because we don't post about it often on Facebook, it doesn't mean we don't have them. EVERYONE struggles. I am only being transparent about my struggles for the glory of God and because I want people to know that no, I don't have it all together. No, I am not perfect. No, I am not free of trouble. I cry, I scream, I get angry, and I feel broken sometimes. But the beautiful thing about that all is that I am not alone. I have a God that consoles me, that speaks life into me, and encourages me when I want to give up and Lord knows how many times I've wanted to give in. I have a God that can move mountains and can change people. I can't, but He can.
I want to belong to the Lord for all of eternity. His love is like nothing else I've ever experienced. There's so much fullness and joy in Him that I cannot explain in words, but I pray that you are all able to experience.
I know you're going through it. I feel you, brothers and sisters, but please know that you are not going through this alone. God's working things out for your good and His glory.
He loves you FAR more than you realize.


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When an oooey gooey chocolate chip cookie tops a sweet and tart cranberry filling, you know you did something right. I mean, who needs traditional cobbler these days, right?!? I'm toppin' mine with warm cookies and it's EVERYTHING! The combination of cranberries and chocolate makes me want to take a nice long nap and so I will. Nighty night!
You can use your favorite chocolate chip cookie recipe for this cobbler and I've included the classic cookie recipe that I make almost every weekend for my kids. You can even add cocoa powder or white chocolate and dried cranberries to mix things up. Go nuts!
Cranberries for miles! Use fresh or frozen. No prob.
- 24 oz. fresh or frozen cranberries
- 1 cup mixed better fruit preserve (strawberry and raspberry are great options)
- 2 Tbsp corn starch
- 2 Tbsp fresh lemon juice
- 2 tsp vanilla extract
- 1 cup vegetable shortening (can substitute unsalted butter or margarine)
- 1 cup light brown sugar
- ½ cup sugar
- 1 tsp vanilla extract
- 2 eggs
- 1 tsp salt
- 1 tsp baking soda
- 2 cups + 4 Tbsp all-purpose flour
- 12 oz (one bag) chocolate chips
- Preheat the oven to 425 degrees F. and coat a 9 inch round baking dish or 12 individual baking cups with cooking spray.
- Combine the cranberries, fruit preserve, corn starch, lemon juice and vanilla extract in a mixing bowl.
- Spoon the filling into the baking dish or evenly between the 12 baking cups and place on a baking pan so it's easier to transfer. Bake the filling for 10 minutes.
- While the filling bakes, mix together the chocolate chip cookie dough for the cobbler topping.
- With a paddle attachment in a stand mixer, mixed the shortening, sugars and vanilla until creamy and fluffy, around 3 minutes. By beating the mixture for a few minutes, you are ensuring a light and chewy cookie!
- Add the eggs and mix well. Add the salt and baking soda and mix again.
- Add the flour 1 cup at a time and mix until no flour could be seen in the mixture, around 1 minute. Add the chocolate chips and stir to combine.
- Remove the cobbler filling from the oven and lower the oven temperature to 350 degrees F.
- Using an ice cream scoop, scoop around 2 tablespoons of batter at a time on top of the cobbler. If you end up with extra cookie dough, you can freeze the raw dough or bake up extra cookies for a snack!
- Bake the cobbler for 20-25 minutes, until the cookie topping is golden brown but still a bit gooey in the center. Serve warm or room temperature. Enjoy!
- *If you are baking regular cookies with the batter, bake for 10-12 minutes, until lightly golden brown. Let the cookies sit for a few minutes on the baking sheet then move to a cooling rack.


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London Fog puts
acc't review on hold
London Fog Industries put on hold a review of its $2 million account after the company named a new head of marketing. Susan Malinowski, VP-marketing, merchandising and design, said she's assessing where the review stands. She joined the outerwear company this month from Perry Ellis Co., where she was VP-marketing. Toth Design & Advertising, Concord, Mass., resigned the London Fog account due to a client conflict. The only agency that hasn't withdrawn from the review is Sasquatch, Portland, Ore.
Grey posts losses for
2nd quarter, 1st half
Grey Advertising, New York, reported net losses for the second quarter and first half. The company had a $6.6 million loss for the quarter, vs. $8.3 million in net income a year ago. Income from commissions and fees climbed 11.9% to $261 million. Gross billings for the quarter rose 11.9% to $1.7 billion, and for the first half were up 8.9% to $3.3 billion. Grey said it expects recent new-business activity "will contribute to top-line growth in the future." For the first half, Grey had a net loss of $6.5 million, vs. net income of $13.4 million a year ago, as income rose 8.9% to $488.9 million.
Comdex trade show gets
$5 mil branding campaign
Ziff-Davis' ZD Events on Aug. 12 launched a $5 million branding campaign for its mammoth Comdex computer trade show. The print and TV campaign emphasizes Comdex's relevance to the Internet and features the tagline "Technology for the new e-conomy." The advertising was created in-house. Comdex attendance has lagged in recent years as a host of smaller, more focused information technology trade shows has appeared.
Advertisers to pay $1 mil
for family-friendly scripts
Eleven of network TV's biggest advertisers have come up with a million-dollar strategy to get more family-friendly shows on the air, Electronic Media reports. Advertisers including AT&T Corp., General Motors Corp. and Procter & Gamble Co. said they will throw about $1 million at the WB network to buy scripts with a family-friendly bent. The pilot script fund is part of an effort by the nearly year-old Family Friendly Programming Forum to encourage the development of TV fare that advertisers would feel more comfortable sponsoring.
New soccer battle to be
staged on cereal boxes
Dueling cereal packages will carry pictures of the U.S. women's soccer team this fall, as Quaker Oats Co. rolls out U.S. Soccer Golden Goals brand at the same time that General Mills features individual members of the team on Wheaties boxes. Quaker's deal is with the U.S. Soccer Federation to market an oat and corn combination, and as a consequence it got to feature the women's team. Big G signed with individual team members rather than the umbrella organization. U.S. Soccer Golden Goals will be supported by a TV campaign from Foote, Cone & Belding, Chicago. The cereal will be a permanent, rather than a limited-time, addition to the lineup, which appears to have cinched the soccer federation deal for Quaker. The team members will be on Wheaties boxes for a more limited time, with no ad support.
Big G, Microsoft link for
'Cyber Savings' promo
General Mills is linking with Microsoft Corp. for "Cyber Savings," a multiple-brand promotion starting Sept. 1. The promotion will offer free Internet access and software with the purchase of Big G products. It will be supported with free-standing inserts, TV advertising, in-store advertising and an online sweepstakes. The offer will differ by brand, but consumers can call a toll-free number to get money off on products including Home Publishing 2000 and Encarta Interactive Atlas 2000. The agency couldn't be determined at press time, but Big G's major shops are Campbell Mithun Esty, Minneapolis; DDB Worldwide, Chicago; and Saatchi & Saatchi, New York.
Dell, former agency JWT
end their court feuds
Dell Computer Corp. and New York-based J. Walter Thompson USA settled the respective lawsuits pending against each other. JWT, which was dropped by Dell in September, sued first, seeking $6.4 million (AA,, Dec. 14). Dell then countersued for an unspecified amount in damages. The details of the settlement weren't disclosed, but the two companies released a statement saying JWT will be paid "an agreed upon amount for the work it performed on the campaign." All


text:
Open your bag wide as we go trick-or-treating in the "W" of Cassiopeia, home to more than 100 star clusters.
More than 1,100 open clusters are known in the Milky Way galaxy with undoubtedly many more hidden beyond the hub in the galaxy's far-away arms. Of that number about 106, or nearly 10%, reside in Cassiopeia, a modest constellation ranking 25th in area. Pretty much anywhere you point a telescope in the "W", you're not far from a sweet swarm of stars. Today we'll explore a dozen of these beauties.
Open or galactic star clusters are comprised of relatively young stars numbering from handful to several thousand, all born from the same cloud of gas and dust. Most reside in the galaxy's spiral arms in the plane of the Milky Way, unlike the gargantuan globular clusters which hover about the central bulge like moths around a flame.
A typical open cluster lives a relatively short life compared to a globular — a few hundred million years vs. more than 10 billion. Their lives are brief because they're more easily tugged apart by gravitational encounters with large gas clouds and other star clusters as they cycle about the galactic center. In contrast, globular clusters bulge with hundreds of thousands up to a million stars, the combined gravity of which acts to restrain each individual star's tendency to wander.
Many open clusters possess a denser core of stars surrounded by a looser nimbus of cluster members. Some can be surprisingly compact and nearly as difficult to resolve into stars as the far more compressed globulars. Others lack a central concentration of any kind, making it a challenge to tease them apart from random groups of unrelated field stars.
Sizes vary but most open clusters span about 13-16 light years across with cores one-half to one-third as wide. They range in distance from the nearest, the Hyades, at 153 light-years, to Berkeley 29, located halfway across the galaxy 51,000 light-years away. As with stars, so with clusters — distance can turn a grand cluster into a grainy smudge.
Open clusters are classified according to three criteria developed by early 20th century Swiss-American astronomer Robert Trumpler: the number of stars observed in a cluster; how concentrated they are in its center; and the range of their apparent brightness. Along the way, Trumpler cataloged 37 star clusters, most of them new discoveries and one of which, Trumpler 1, made our list of 12.
Here's the breakdown on Trumpler's classes. You'll find his tidy categories helpful if you take notes on what you see through the telescopel:
Degree of concentration
I. Detached cluster with a strong central concentration ("detached" meaning "how easily the cluster stands out in the field of view")
II. Detached cluster with little central concentration
III. Detached cluster with no noticeable concentration
IV. Not well detached, resembling field stars
Range of brightness
1. Most of the cluster's stars are of similar brightness
2. Moderate range of brightness
3. A mix of everything from bright to faint
Number of stars
p = poor. Star clusters with fewer than 50 stars
m= medium-rich with 50-100 members
r = rich with more than 100 stars
The letter 'N' is added if the cluster is involved in nebulosity. For example, the Pleiades is classified as "II3rN" while M103 is "II2m".
M103 is exactly where we start our Cassiopeia cluster hop. I could have easily chosen 15 clusters or mined another part of the constellation, but picked M103 because it's a personal favorite. Other groups we'll visit along the way illustrate the full diversity of open clusters. All my observations were made with a 15-inch (37-cm) reflector or 10×50 binoculars.
M103 has so many attractive attributes — the compact triangular shape, a rich smattering of stars within the figure, a striking ruby-red member, and a triple star (Struve 131) at the triangle's north apex. The cluster's also easy to find, located ½° north and 1° east of bright Delta Cassiopeiae.
From there we shift our scope less than a degree to the north-northeast and alight on the side-by-side clusters Trumpler 1 and Czernik 4. The former pops nicely with about 30 stars (by my count), but its most interesting feature is the almost perfectly straight line of four stars along the cluster's western border like a miniature Orion's Belt with one extra punch. Look closely because one of the stars splits into an attractive, close double. Czernik 4 appears small and sparse with one bright central star surrounded by 10 dimmer hangers-on.
Moving along 1.2° to the southeast, we next arrive at NGC 659, a starry pentagon set against a slightly hazy background of fainter stars that responds well to averted vision. The first person on Earth to see the cluster was Caroline Herschel back in 1783. NGC 659 serves as the warm-up for splashy, bright NGC 663, located in the same low power field of view about ½° to the north. I swear it's the cousin of the popular "ET or Extraterrestrial Cluster (NGC 457)," with two bright starry eyes and chubby arms flung to either side. Even if you don't see an alien, you'll enjoy all the glitter here.
Continuing ½° to the east, we meet the curiously compact Berkeley 6. Based on its Trumpler classification II2p, you might think there's not much to see here, but the cluster's 20 stars are crammed into a blob only a few minutes across that mimics a small comet with a bright nucleus. Definitely a treat, not a trick.
NGC 654, another rich, moderately compact cluster similar to but half the size of NGC 663, lies 1° back to the northwest. A 7th-magnitude star pins its southern border. From here we shoot 1° due east and encounter IC 166, a faint, nebulous patch 8′ across. A 9th-magnitude star on its western edge helps to locate the cluster. Try as I might, I couldn't resolve any stars in this ghostly nebula-imposter until I upped the magnification to 286× and used averted vision. Finally, the eastern half of the group resolved into a tremulous grainy haze.
According to Archinal and Hynes' Star Clusters, IC 166's brightest stars shine at only 17th magnitude. That seemed a little too faint; I'd put them at closer to 15. What do you see?
Berkeley 7, a very small cluster of 14th-magnitude and fainter stars ½° northeast of IC 166, may prove challenging. About 15 faint 14th-magnitude stars were visible at 142×, but it took effort to see them as a distinct cluster. Czernik 5, 1° farther south, won't knock your socks off either, but in spite of its tiny size and faint magnitude, it stands out well even at 64× as a hazy group comprised of some 10 stars.
From here, we hop a bit more than 1° southeast to the lovely harp-shaped cluster NGC 743. Though lacking a distinct core, this pretty group catches the eye even at low magnification.
After digging deep, there's nothing more refreshing than finishing with something big and bright. Stock 2 fits the bill. You can imagine all kinds of patterns in this gangly assemblage of old stars: a man bent over a cane, streams of raindrops, even someone lifting weights. The cluster's arguably more beautiful in binoculars and small telescopes where a large field of view makes it pop.
Go 2° south of Stock 2, and you'll fall headlong into the riches of the Perseus Double Cluster. We could on from there, but it's probably time to pack up the telescope and get some sleep.
Like trick-or-treating at Halloween, you never know for sure what's going to drop into your bag when you explore a chunk of sky. That's why it's so much fun. Just pick a patch rich with deep sky objects, make a chart and amble from one object to the next. You'll lose yourself for hours, enhance your observing skills, and bump into some of the night sky's most fascinating creatures.
|01 33.3
|+60 39.5
|Stunning gem
|Trumpler 1
|01 35.6
|+61 17.2
|Peculiar aspect
|Czernik 4
|~ 9.0
|01 35.6
|+61 28.5
|01 44.3
|+60 40.2
|Small, pretty
|01 46.2
|+61 13.1
|Rich, bright
|01 44.0
|+61 53.0
|Small, rich
|Berkeley 6
|~ 9.5
|01 51.2
|+61 03.6
|01 52.3
|+61 51.3
|Faint, nebular
|Berkeley 7
|~ 11
|01 54.2
|+62 22.2
|Difficult, vague
|~ 8.0
|01 58.5
|+60 10.0
|Czernik 5
|~ 12.0
|01 55.6
|+61 21.4
|V. small, dim
|Stock 2
|02 14.7
|+59 29.1
|Huge, nice in binoculars!
* Data from Star Clusters by Brent A. Archinal and Steven J. Hynes. I estimated magnitudes when none were listed.
Looking for star clusters? You can find them in the Sky & Telescope Pocket Sky Atlas!


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Leads in Microsoft Dynamics CRM: Do they fit your business?
Microsoft Dynamics CRM Webcast Series
Tuesday, November 26, 2013 @ 1:00 PM EST
SummaryWhile all businesses need sales leads, the term has a special meaning in Microsoft Dynamics CRM's native sales process that may or may not be a good fit to your organization.
In this webinar we will discuss why leads, as defined in Dynamics CRM, are beneficial for some organizations and why others may NOT want to use leads. You'll discover how to determine if leads are a good fit for your organization. If you are (or plan to) use Leads, you will hear the best practices for segmentation of leads, when to convert leads. and how to optimize the sales person's experience with leads.