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"Sol Sienda apartments are dream home in every sense of the word. In idyllic Goa, it has a resort-like feel to it, with high-quality finish and a super-luxury pool. Vianaar's luxury homes in Goa like Sol Sienda are a great place to retreat to and be immersed in your own luxurious cocoon. Vianaar makes owning an out-of-town property convenient and stress-free!"
Thank you Vianaar Homes! Every year for the last seven years I have visited Goa for a holiday which invariably got extended because I wished to invest in Goa and therefore continue my search for my home away from home and now with Sol Sienda apartments in Goa, my wish has come true.
When I first visited Sol Sienda luxury apartments in Goa, I was very impressed with the building. The design of the building, the attention to detail, large open spaces with natural light, the high quality fittings and workmanship, the overall look and feel of the place exceeded my expectation of what I was beginning to expect from Goa construction. The entire place feels like a resort. No apartment in Sol Sienda is on the same level giving you privacy while at the same time being part of an apartment complex.
The concierge service provided by Vianaar's management is another bonus. It includes most of the services of a hotel right in your own house. My first visit to Sol Sienda apartments in Goa was extremely pleasant. The staff was polite, helpful and always greeted us with a bright smile. I have gone and stayed at my house now three times this year- something I never could do earlier with the unnecessary expensive hotel rates.
I am a very happy and proud owner of a Vianaar apartment in Goa.
Vianaar's apartments which are located in Reis Magos are about a 10 min drive from the Candolim-Calangute beach. The construction has been done with an eye for detail and a noticeable aspect is the quality of the various "accessories" that are critical to a peaceful day to day life.
The interiors are put together well and all the fittings work well too. Vianaar's luxury homes in Goa are well designed in terms of light and space. For somebody like me, who has never really lived a major part of my life in an apartment, the wide open spaces ensure that there is no sense of claustrophobia which says something for sure about the overall design and execution. Finally, the associated staff has been really positive and helpful, which again is a testimony to Vianaar's management.
First of all, I would like to say that I am quite happy with the maintenance and housekeeping arrangements done in Vianaar's apartments.
On the whole things are satisfactory and the staff, esp. the manager Ms. Deepa and the cleaning ladies are most co-operative and helpful. I wish them all the best for their future luxury homes in Goa.
Our introduction to Vianaar was completely out-of-the-blue and without any recommendations – I happened to get a pop-up link to their website while looking for potential apartments for sale in Goa. We saw photographs of the completed Sol Sienda project and it impressed us for a few specific reasons – aesthetic architecture using local materials and using the topography of the plot, no unnecessary use of gaudy finishes (as is the trend by most developers), yet beautifully done internal finishes, a sensitivity towards the use of natural lighting and beautifully maintained landscaping and lighting.
Thereafter we met Varun who heads the setup. He impressed us with his commitment to timelines, enthusiasm to adhere to a certain design idea and not diluting it with too many individual demands and leading a team at Goa for construction and maintenance which is very supportive and responsive. He has never failed to respond to requests and has ensured that his team followed through with the execution.
Our apartment was completed within expected timelines and we are very happy with the final product. The finished project looks like the artistic renderings that Varun discussed with us in the initial phase. La Mer is certainly the luxury holiday home in Goa that we had hoped for! The Vianaar legal team helped us in every way for the registration of the property and now the Maintenance and Housekeeping team is looking after the premises with utmost care. Whenever we visit La Mer it feels like we are being greeted by family – the housekeeping staff takes care to call in advance and check on our requirements before we arrive. So when we walk in, the apartment is sparkling clean with linen laid out, refrigerator stocked as needed and it doesn't feel like we have been away.
It's rare to find this quality of service from a property developer, or this eye for detail. We think Varun is setting new standards in his field and we would like to congratulate him on another project being completed successfully with La Mer. We wish the entire Vianaar team much success in the future and hope that they continue to invest time and effort on the completed projects and the new ones with equal enthusiasm. I doubt they would have much competition if this combination remains as it is now AND it will help raise standards in the industry.
My relationship with Vianaar started in cyberspace—I used the Internet and found their website.
After going through it and seeing the luxury homes they offered in Goa, I decided to take this ahead and contact was established with a young and enthusiastic Sales Manager. I decided to move forward since I had a feeling that Vianaar was trustworthy.
When I booked or reserved the flat, I was asked to put down a deposit. Since I was visiting Goa a few weeks later I asked that the reservation be kept, however I would pay after I visited the site. True to his word, Suraj arranged the same with the company. This established quick decision making and integrity on the part of Vianaar for me.
After a site visit and considering the above, I decided to invest in Goa and to go with Vianaar.
Through the process whilst I was an excellent customer in terms of payments, Vianaar demonstrated an ability to communicate at every level throughout the organization. Whether I spoke to Varun or Suraj or anyone else, I received quick and accurate responses.
I also needed help with electricity, water, furniture, air-conditioning and other miscellaneous items. The Vianaar team has assisted in every way. I have also asked for assistance with setting up TV cable connections, land lines, gas and am being assisted in these areas too.
All in all, I have had a happy and comfortable experience while choosing a luxury home in Goa. As for the million dollar question as to whether I would consider Vianaar again, the answer is yes indeed, we would consider Vianaar.
What stood out most to us about La Mer is the clever blend of old and new which gives the space its unique character and charm. The apartments are modern in design and functionality, with subtle Portuguese elements flowing through.
We also love the attention to detail placed on both the interiors and exteriors, from the Portuguese tiling on the staircase, to the white brick feature wall in the bedrooms.
During the initial stages, we wanted to add a few personal touches of our own to the apartment. The team, including contractors on the job were friendly and courteous and helped us in meeting these objectives so that we'd be comfortable in our home.
If you're looking for an up and coming Construction Company that thinks outside the box and has a team of builders, engineers and architects who are able to combine clever designs with aesthetically pleasing luxury homes in Goa, we would highly recommend Vianaar.
I received a call from my husband one morning (he is based abroad) casually informing me that he had invested in a luxury home in Goa. He wanted to surprise me but since the flat was to be jointly held he had to inform me. I was totally taken aback as he had not seen the property and made this investment based purely on his research on the internet. He also didn't have any papers or receipts for the payments wired by him. My heart sank and I said to myself "there goes our money down the drain".
With the number he forwarded I called the Delhi office of Vianaar and was greeted cheerfully by the marketing executive Priyadarshan, who promptly arranged to send the Sale Agreement and the receipts to our Mumbai residence thus reinstating my faith in mankind. He also put me on to the local Sales Representative- Suraj. On our visit to Goa, we were taken to the site by Suraj, and also shown another completed project Sol Sienda. I can't express the relief and joy my kids and I experienced.
Ever since that day, I was happy to deal with an amazing professional team (Priyadarshan, Shivani, Shampa,Viplove, Akshaya and Suraj to name a few), be it for payment of installments or work at the site. All our queries and issues were dealt with effectively and we received the utmost cooperation. The project was also completed on time and we are now the proud owners of an aesthetically built flat in a tastefully done apartment block.
So happy were we with the outcome that my husband has decided to invest in another property built by Vianaar viz Santaa Rosa.
Thank you Varun and your wonderful team!
When I made a decision to buy a house in Goa, my wonderful friend and agent Paresh showed me about 50 houses, but when I walked into this beautiful apartment at La Mer, I was in love.
I extend my compliments to everyone at Vianaar Homes for both the quality of the home's workmanship and the entire purchasing process (it was made so easy). It's a perfect getaway for me. The open and bright concept is very pleasant and friendly and the attention to detail is exceptional. Each house at La Mer has a unique character and that's what I liked the most.
I, without any hesitation, highly recommend Vianaar Homes to anyone who is looking for a luxury home in Goa. Thank you!
It gives me great pleasure to write this testimonial for Vianaar Homes. I have had a very pleasant experience while buying one of their luxury homes in Goa. I have purchased an apartment in La Mer and from the very first stage of contacting them right up to the time the deal was closed; I was impressed with the way they deal with their clients. That and the fact that their homes are absolutely perfect and exactly what I was looking for, made me decide to go ahead and buy this apartment from them.
My apartment is bright and airy, – it is surrounded by lush greenery and the construction quality is superb. Vianaar's attention to detail can be seen very clearly and their services both after construction and when you move in make it a home away from home for me.
Thank you Vianaar – you have undoubtedly proved that you are one of the best builders in Goa today. I could not have asked for a better holiday home in Goa.
Buying real estate in Goa is not difficult nowadays. There are several builders you can choose from as Goa has now become such a popular tourist destination as well as a destination for holiday homes. Thankfully, my search was made easier as I chose to go with Vianaar – the best builder in Goa.
What really stood out was the level of professionalism and the attention to detail that has gone into the building of these luxury homes in Goa. Equal attention has been paid both the interiors of the apartments and the surroundings outside too. The overall result is a beautiful property where you feel at home instantly. The many services and facilities provided by Vianaar Homes help in this aspect as well.
It has always been my dream to invest in Goa. However, that was easier said than done as there are so many properties for sale and I was finding it difficult to make up my mind. I had done quite a bit of looking around before I chanced upon Vianaar Homes.
La Mer Apartments were like a dream come true for me. The gorgeous apartments with their high ceilings, large balconies and a private pool were just what I had been looking for all along. To add to this was the personal touch I felt when I was dealing with the team from Vianaar while purchasing this apartment. Every query was answered promptly and the entire process of buying real estate in Goa was made easy due to them.
Vianaar is definitely one of the best builders in Goa today. I am extremely happy with the 2 BHK ground floor apartment I proudly call my own now.
I have been planning to invest in Goa for several years now and have spent considerable time looking at various luxury homes in Goa. A friend of mine who was also looking for luxury homes in Goa happened to mention Vianaar Homes to me. I immediately went on to their website and liked what I saw.
I contacted them and was immediately impressed with the level of customer service and personal attention that was provided to me. Within a few days I had made arrangements to fly to Goa to see the site. I was extremely pleased with what I saw. Vianaar has constructed the most beautiful apartments and put in top quality fittings. Aesthetically, the apartments are wonderful and I was sold on them the minute I set eyes on them.
What's more is that they provide services even after you move in. I have no regrets in buying a 2 BHK duplex penthouse in La Mer and happily recommend Vianaar Homes to anyone who wishes to invest in Goa. In my mind, they are without a doubt the best builders in Goa.
I had been searching for the perfect luxury home in Goa for quite a while. I happened to come across the website of Vianaar while doing a Google search and after that there was no turning back.
I was extremely impressed by what I saw and decided to go a step further and contact them. The way the team at Vianaar handled the whole process right from day one made me sure of the fact that I wanted to buy an apartment from this construction company.
The Sales Manager arranged for a site visit for me and once I saw the 2BHK penthouse in Sol Sienda, I knew that I had to have it. Vianaar has really paid attention to many small but significant details while planning these beautiful apartments. The large spacious apartments are airy and bright and allow a lot of sunlight to come through. Their services post construction is excellent and I am indeed fortunate to have stumbled upon a company I consider the best builder in Goa today.
I have always wanted to invest in Goa as it is one of my favourite places to visit. I had been looking at various properties in Goa for quite a while before I zeroed in on Vianaar Homes. Having seen many luxury homes in Goa I immediately saw the difference in these apartments in terms of quality construction and attention to detail.
More than this, the team at Vianaar was courteous and helpful, answering every query and this made my decision even easier to make. They made the whole process of buying the apartment, registration etc. extremely simple.
Sol Sienda apartments are incredibly beautiful. They have been well thought of and designed aesthetically which was another point in their favour. The surroundings are beautiful too and very pleasing to the eye.
I have no hesitation in recommending Vianaar Homes as I feel it is the best builder in Goa today.
It was by sheer good luck that while searching for property in Goa we stumbled upon Vianaar properties. As soon as I entered Santaa Teraa and my apartment in particular, I knew this is MY HOUSE!
Beautiful architecture, excellent layout, well-maintained gardens, spacious and airy rooms, were just a part of the great package... My kids loved the pool...And I loved the staff.
The buying experience was also good. The staff at Delhi office, Miss Mehak in particular was very cooperative and helpful.
All in all, a happy satisfied customer and a proud owner:)
When I first contacted Vianaar, I was assured by them that they would give me an apartment which would surpass my expectations. They also assured me that they were known for quality construction and attention to detail. I passed this off as the usual Sales pitch but to my surprise and delight they proved to do just that! The best thing about this real estate developer in Goa is that they deliver what they promise. My apartment at Santaa Teraa is outstanding in terms of quality and design and this apartment was delivered to me within the specified time frame. Vianaar has truly kept to their word and given me the apartment of my dreams. Keep up the good work Vianaar!
Not many people would think of buying two holiday homes in Goa. However, I am so happy with the apartment I have purchased in El Arbol that I decided to go ahead and invest in another residential property in Goa from Vianaar itself. I did not even think of looking for another builder in Goa as (in my eyes) Vianaar has clearly established itself as one of the leading developers in Goa today. What's more is that I faced no problems while buying the property at El Arbol and Vianaar helped me every step of the way. Their properties are aesthetically designed; they are very committed to their work and go the extra mile to ensure that their clients are more than satisfied with the end result. What more could anyone ask for? I would highly recommend them to anybody who wants to buy a holiday home in Goa.
I bought an apartment in El Arbol 1 in December 2015. I am happy to say that the apartment is being designed exactly the way it is shown on the 3D renders on the website. Construction is on in full swing. I would like to state here that it has been a pleasure in dealing with the Vianaar Office -both in New Delhi and Goa. Vianaar has met my expectations with what they have promised and what they have delivered. I highly recommend Vianaar properties to prospective real estate buyers in Goa.


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Thursday, March 27, 2008
Creating Value in the Dog
I at Alice the Goon apologize for the long hiatus. It was a result of the writer's strike. I wasn't paying myself what I was worth, and when I tried to talk to myself about it I acted like I was crazy. So I flipped myself off, called myself a fascist and left. Finally I gave in to my demands ("No more 2% milk!") and am back on the job.
Besides, it was imperative that the strike be broken so I could tell you this story.
My friend Susan was at the dog park talking to me on the phone when she suddenly got very upset. Someone was yelling at their dog, she said, and it really got to her, to the point where she wondered if they might be crazy. So I passed on this advice from Paige:
When you see something like this happening, you go up to the person and lavish love and attention on the dog - say how cute he is, how sweet, how smart, how you'd love to have a dog like this, pet him, ask his age, etcetera. Paige's friends at Earth Pets Natural Pet Market in Gainseville call this "creating value in the dog" - if the owner sees someone else valuing the animal they will shift perspective and value the animal, too.
This really happens. It's the exact same principal as when you're about to break up with a lover and then see someone else flirting with him or her; immediately you change your mind and decide to keep them. Whether it's our covetous nature or outside perspective "creating value in the dog," works.
Sometimes you are the dog. You have to create some value in yourself, make yourself seen as adorable (or whatever impression you're inventing) before other people see it. I suppose it's also called "marketing," but whatever it is.....woof. Go on and do it.
(adorable dog provided by Katie Ball)
Posted by Wiggle Room at 10:32 PM
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www.55printing.com | Online PrintsPosted on: December 24, 2015, by : admin
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Whether and when there will be a referendum on
UK membership of the European Union are questions
yet to be resolved - and, even when they are,
further questions will arise, as to what outcome
that referendum might produce and whether it would
be acted upon by government.
Despite these uncertainties, however, it is not
too early to think about what a withdrawal from
membership might mean for the UK. So far, that
question has prompted little beyond warnings of
calamitous consequences on the one hand and
predictions of a new golden age on the other. If a
referendum is to make sense, it is surely
essential that a level-headed assessment is
attempted in advance of the decision being taken.
The first point to make is that, portentous though
a withdrawal from the EU might be, it is not the
same thing as withdrawing from Europe. The
tendency to equate first the Common Market, then
the EEC and now the EU with Europe has always
been an obstacle to rational discussion. Those who
have criticised particular aspects of these
arrangements have always been lazily dismissed as
anti-Europe, as though anyone could doubt that
Britain is geographically, historically,
politically, economically and culturally part of
Europe, whatever institutional form that might
There is nothing anti-European about subjecting
our relationship with the rest of Europe to
careful scrutiny; and it is not exactly unknown in
our history that we have fulfilled our European
role while declining to throw in our lot with the
dominant continental power.
The question has never been whether or not Europe,
but what kind of Europe - and today, whether the
Europe we have, with its increasingly obvious
and possibly irremediable flaws, is the best we
can manage. Any proposed withdrawal from the
particular arrangements we define as the EU
should, in other words, be seen in the context,
not of a sudden and complete rupture of relations
with the Europe of which we are inevitably a
part, but of whatever new relationship could be
put in its place.
Nor is it the case that a withdrawal would involve
a totally new and unprecedented departure from our
current stance. The UK has already, after all,
resolutely steered clear of the euro - a decision
that seems more strongly vindicated by every day
that passes but which has also meant that there
has been an increasingly significant but
manageable distance between the UK and the central
core of euro zone membership.
We have, in other words, already experimented
successfully with a unilaterally determined
exemption from some of the obligations of full
membership. Consistent with this, a supposedly
full-scale withdrawal would not be any such
thing; it would be a negotiated re-definition of a
relationship that is already accepted as not set
in concrete. That re-negotiation would not be easy
but - however strained relations between the
parties might seem initially - both sides would
have an obvious and common interest in preserving
existing, and creating new forms of cooperation.
It is worth pausing to consider who the parties to
a re-negotiation might be. While it would not
necessarily be an explicit goal of the British
negotiating position that other members should be
encouraged to join the negotiation, that might
nevertheless happen. A British withdrawal could
trigger a wider attempt, involving other countries
that would welcome the chance to achieve change,
at redefining the shape of European cooperation.
Such a redefinition would not necessarily require
a rejection of all that had been achieved. That
would seem to be especially true of trade
relations. Neither the remaining members of the
eurozone (which might be regarded for all intents
and purposes as a greater German economic zone)
nor the UK (and perhaps others) would have any
wish (other than as a reflection of a rather
childish fit of pique) to see trade barriers
The rest of the world is, after all, moving
inexorably - albeit slowly - towards increasing
free trade. The Doha round may have stalled for
the time being, but other attempts (such as the
Trans Pacific Partnership) are proceeding apace.
It would be surprising, not to say irrational, for
the different parts of Europe to move in the
opposite direction and to set up trade barriers
against each other.
A renegotiated trade arrangement might stumble for
a time over particular issues, such as demands
from individual industries and producers on either
side for some degree of protection, and especially
over British freedom to allow access to the
British market for products that would compete
with EU alternatives. It is hard to see, however,
that there would be - as a matter of self-interest
on both sides - any general and sustained move to
raising tariffs. As with the initial negotiations
for British membership of what was then the Common
Market, difficult issues would be addressed on a
case-by-case basis; they would be resolved by
compromise and often by means of transitional
arrangements that would allow time for adjustments
but would almost certainly lead back to a pretty
comprehensive version of free trade.
With the likelihood of an agreement in principle
to keep trade relations open, the only significant
long-term trade disadvantage to the UK would lie
in not automatically being included in EU trade
deals with third parties; and that would be offset
at least in part by the greater freedom we would
have to negotiate our own trade arrangements with
producers of food and other primary products that
are more competitive than the European producers
with whom we are currently obliged to deal. We
might be pleasantly surprised at how welcome such
a prospect would be to some of our traditional
trading partners, such as New Zealand.
The original aims of the Common Market, as a
customs union and free trade area, could in other
words be achieved in substance without having to
take on the obligation to limit our trade
relations with other parties - an obligation that
has been particularly onerous for a country like
the UK that previously enjoyed unmatched trading
links around the world.
It would no doubt be argued that the EU has now
become much more than a customs union and that the
removal of tariffs was just a small step towards
the economic integration that has been attempted
and largely achieved. It is certainly true that
the EU has quite deliberately put in place a
comprehensive and coherent structure of rules
designed to provide a level playing field - in
other words, to ensure that member states do not
gain a competitive advantage by resorting to
non-tariff devices, such as the preferential
treatment of local bidders for major contacts -
and that this means that any expectation that free
trade could be maintained after withdrawal, would
need to take account of the need to keep these
rules in place.
There is considerable substance to this point, and
the conditions on which free trade (at least in
the sense of tariff-free access to each others
markets) could be maintained would no doubt be the
subject of tough negotiation. But there is no need
to despair; free trade agreements have been
regularly concluded around the world without the
degree of economic integration between or among
the parties that has been the goal in the EU. An
all-or-nothing stance by the EU - either full
integration or no free trade - would in the end be
self-defeating. Finding a solution to this issue
would be as much in the EUs interests, and
therefore as much their responsibility, as it is
the UKs.
Consideration would have to be given to the UKs
continuing rights and obligations in respect of
treaties negotiated by the EU with overseas
partners. It might prove possible to establish
that, in principle, the UK either did or (more
likely) did not continue to be bound by such
provisions; otherwise, these matters would need to
be addressed on a case-by-case basis. Where it
seemed clear that the outcome was not in
accordance with what we wanted, we might need to
negotiate new arrangements with treaty partners.
What other aspects of economic relations would
need to be considered? One of the often touted
advantages of EU membership is the encouragement
to potential investors of locating new productive
capacity in the UK on the basis that they would
thereby gain access to the whole European market.
The significance of that factor would, though, be
much reduced if something approaching free trade
with our European partners were maintained; and,
to the extent that any loss were suffered, it
would be offset by the increased incentive to
invest in the UK as the safest way of gaining
tariff-free access to what would remain a valuable
British market.
If satisfactory trade arrangements could be
negotiated, as they surely would, it seems
unlikely that other aspects of what would normally
be regarded as international relations would pose
particular problems. While the EU would presumably
continue to take responsibility for its own
foreign policy and international relations as a
single entity, the UK might enjoy greater freedom
to identify its own foreign policy goals and to
exploit the advantages that its own particular
history and range of relationships provide - and
it is in any case inconceivable that the foreign
policy objectives of the EU and the UK would
diverge any more significantly than they do - and
are allowed to do - at present.
Defence policy would seem to present even less of
a problem. That issue would continue, as at
present, to be defined within a NATO rather than
an EU context. Either within the EU or outside,
the UKs relationship with the US would remain of
prime importance.
The UK would of course cease to be represented in
EU institutions such as the European Council, the
Council of the European Union (or Council of
Ministers) and the European Parliament. The UKs
continued participation in Europe-wide cooperative
arrangements, such as the Council of Europe, and
the European Convention on Human Rights (including
the acceptance of the jurisdiction of the European
Court of Human Rights), would, however, remain
unaffected, since they are not EU bodies.
Withdrawal would however mean that the European
Court of Justice (a quite different body) would no
longer have jurisdiction over the UK since we
would no longer have obligations under EU law -
except, perhaps, to the extent that we might
identify transitional arrangements where we might
accept such jurisdiction for limited purposes.
There would of course remain many opportunities
for functional cooperation on a Europe-wide basis
- that is, cooperation on issues of common
interest where the advantages of joint action and
policy-making might transcend EU boundaries or
rest on a rationale that goes beyond or is
independent of EU purposes.
It is in terms of the impact on the domestic
economy and internal law-making and regulation
that the thorniest problems might arise. A
termination of membership would, first, put an end
to the UKs contribution to the EU budget (always
a sensitive issue) but would also remove current
EU subsidies to a wide range of economic and
social undertakings. Arguments will differ as to
where the balance of advantage would lie, but it
seems likely that the UK would make a net gain in
purely financial terms. There could be a price to
pay, however, in respect of the disruption
involved in making new domestic funding
arrangements so as to maintain desirable
operations that had hitherto been EU-funded.
There would also be the possibility, if not the
necessity, of unwinding existing rules, in matters
such as the form of agricultural subsidies and
agricultural price structures. Freed from the
constraints of the Common Agricultural Policy, the
possibility would open up of reverting to a cheap
(or at least cheaper) food policy (with consequent
benefits to the costs of British industry) so that
subsidies were paid direct to farmers, and
consumers gained the benefits of lower prices. The
removal of CAP rules, and greater national freedom
in matters of trade policy, would of course allow
us to use cheaper food imports from efficient
non-EU producers to set domestic prices.
By virtue of staying outside the euro zone, the UK
has already preserved some degree of freedom to
set its own exchange rate and monetary policies -
an opportunity of which we have signally failed,
under current policies, to take much advantage.
While the euro zone continues to struggle with the
consequences of an inappropriate austerity, the UK
could, if we so chose, exploit the removal of our
obligations under the Maastricht Treaty in order
to put in place more expansive fiscal and monetary
policies - something of which the domestic economy
is desperately in need. In any event, decisions on
such matters, for good or ill, would clearly be
for the British government and the Bank of
England, rather than the European Central Bank.
It is a matter for speculation whether the
reclamation from the EU of wider powers of
self-government might prompt a revived
appreciation of the value of parliamentary
government, and a renewed willingness to require
elected and accountable governments to take the
major decisions on economic policy rather than
sub-contract them to unaccountable bankers. In any
event, it might be a salutary experience for
British parliamentarians to find that the buck
stops with them, rather than across the Channel.
The most complex area for adjustment would
probably be the large volume and wide range of
existing EU-originated regulation that applies in
the UK. Much of that would be acceptable and could
continue to be applied without difficulty; but the
opportunity could be taken to weed out those
regulations that are there because the EU required
them but that are seen as inappropriate or
unnecessary in the UK context.
There would of course be an increased legislative
burden, as the UK legislature and administration
took over responsibility for the rules and
requirements in areas that had hitherto been an EU
domain. This should not cause major problems,
other than cause more work for legislators and
civil servants, with perhaps a small marginal
additional cost. The maintenance of an optimal
degree of consistency with EU legislation would no
doubt be seen as desirable, but the option would
be there, in any given instance, to legislate for
specifically UK interests.
A British withdrawal might, as well as producing a
change in the composition of the EU, arguably have
some impact on that of the UK as well. Any such
change would be likely to occur at around the same
time as decisions were being taken or contemplated
about Scottish independence and, possibly, about
the future of Northern Ireland.
It is hard to foresee how these possible
developments might interact with each other. Much
could depend on timing. In respect of a referendum
on Scottish independence, the argument might be
made that a UK withdrawal from the EU - if it had
happened or was seen as likely - would make an
application for EU membership from an independent
Scotland both opportune and advantageous, and -
for those who remained in favour of EU membership
- this might become therefore an argument for
voting in favour of Scottish independence. On the
basis of initial EU responses to the prospect of a
Scottish application for membership, however, the
EU would be reluctant to involve itself in such an
issue before a referendum on UK membership and
would be unlikely therefore to give any
encouragement to this line of argument.
Scottish opinion might in any case take the view
that a UK withdrawal from the EU would mean - on
the assumption that membership of some larger
entity would be valuable to a newly independent
country - a choice between the protection to be
gained from the UK on the one hand or the EU on
the other. It could provide an additional reason,
therefore, to those who were not in favour of
continued EU membership for remaining within the
The Northern Ireland issue is likely to be less
pressing. That section of Northern Irish opinion
that saw EU membership as an important element in
maintaining Irish prosperity might see a UK
withdrawal as requiring an agonising reappraisal
of the future relationship between the two Irish
entities. But it seems more likely that the bulk
of Northern Ireland opinion would wish to stick
with the UK, whether in or out of the EU; and the
advantages of EU membership to Ireland might seem
less obvious as the Republic struggles with euro
zone-imposed austerity.
The conclusion must be that none of these issues
poses insuperable difficulties or creates
irremediable disadvantage. All can be resolved by
negotiation and adjustment. This is not
surprising. The future of Europe and of the UKs
role in that future offers choices. It is not
possible or sensible to prescribe in advance and
without admitting the possibility of future
variation the shape that that future might take.
The history of Britain in Europe is one of
continuing evolution. If it happened that a
referendum were to take place and the British
people were to decide on withdrawal and the
British government then acted on that decision,
that would not be definitive for all time. We
should then merely set about making sense of the
next stage in that evolution.
The proponents of a fully integrated Europe should
not despair. To acknowledge that there is not yet
a United States of Europe, with a single political
identity that makes it possible to accommodate
without undue strain a range of divergent economic
interests, is not to admit defeat but to recognise
the need to build a Europe on the basis of
democracy and popular will if the result is to be
Bryan Gould


text:
Teach English
If you are thinking about starting teaching English as a foreign language (TEFL), if you are already teaching but want to develop professionally, or you want to keep your teaching skills up to date, you have come to the right place.
Our Teacher Training Department offers bespoke training courses to suit a variety of training needs. In addition, we offer the Cambridge TKT and CLIL courses.
TKT Course
This course is an induction to the teaching of English and it is aimed at individuals who want to initiate their career as English teachers using different methodologies and learning styles.
CLIL Course
CLIL helps teachers at primary, secondary and university level to learn English and gain knowledge of curricular subjects by learning those subjects in English..


text:
The Conference of the Parties (COP) 17 enters its the last week of negotiations with the High Level session starting tomorrow afternoon and might be useful to identify which are the most important topics under discussion.
Some positive results are expected regarding technology transfer, a crucial issue in facilitating a more sustainable development path for developing countries.
Copenhagen and Cancun had outlined a financing mechanism, the Green Climate Fund, capable of supporting adaptation and mitigation to help in particular the less developed countries. It foresaw a three-year period (2010-2012) of fast tracking $10 billion per year, to be increased up to $100 billion by 2020.
Christiana Figueres, the UNFCCC Executive Secretary, underlined last Friday during a press conference that there has so far been no decision on how that figure will be reached. She also pointed out that already last year the High Level financing panel set up by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon had highlighted the need for "a combination of traditional and innovative sources of finances."
Financing is needed as well to support the REDD mechanism (Reduction Emission from Deforestation and Degradation). In this field some problems have been raised by Brazil, which does not appear willing to accept a regime of international reporting of how safeguards in REDD will be addressed and respected.
But mitigation remains the main point for which a political solution must be found by the 12 Chiefs of State and 130 Ministers starting to arrive in Durban already this afternoon..
It is no longer possible to postpone a decision about the future of the Kyoto Protocol (KP) because its first commitment period expires at the end of 2012. Linked with the destiny of the KP is the decision on how to forge a new broader international pact, to include the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions of all major emitters actually under discussion in the Long Cooperative Action (LCA).
The most concrete proposal submitted up to now is the one prepared by the EU. With the public refusal on the part of Japan, Russia and Canada to be part of the II commitment period, the EU becomes the main mover in favour of the KP survival.
This allows the EU to lay down its own conditions to save the only existing, legally binding accord, i.e., the KP, still crucial for all developing countries. Figueres is aware that the EU will accept to support the KP's renewal "only under certain conditions," spelled out last Friday by Thomasz Chrusczow, representing the Polish EU Presidency: "it is necessary that the new pact include 100% of the global emissions."
He asked for a kind of "Durban Road map," a three-year negotiating process in order to finalize a full and global agreement by 2015 which should then become operative before 2020. Chrusczow's request to base this new process on the same principles as the Bali Road map and the Cancun agreement indirectly confirms the failure of the COP 15 in Copenhagen and the entirely unsuccessful Rasmussen COP 15 Presidency. The evidence is that it is now necessary to restart the process for a new legally binding agreement.
But the international situation has radically changed from that prevailing at the time of the 2007 Bali conference and even more with respect to 1992, when the UNFCCC was signed. For Artur Runge Metzer, of the EU Commission, it is therefore no longer possible to base a future agreement only on historical responsibility. "We are aware of our historical responsibility, but this is not enough. If we shut down the EU tomorrow or next Saturday as result of the COP 17, we don't save the climate. Others have to come on board".
The message is clearly directed at the USA, increasingly absent from the negotiation process, as shown by the vague answer of the Deputy Special Envoy for Climate Change,
Jonathan Pershing, during last week's press conference and by the US attempt to postpone the new negotiation process until after 2020. The indirect answer comes from Keya Chatterjee, representative of WWF US. She urged her national delegation to keep in mind this year's climatic events in the U.S., where for the first time 47 States had to declare a state of emergency because of weather-related disasters.
But the EU message is meant also for the emerging economies, considering their increasing contribution to total GHG emissions. Chrusczow did however specify that it is necessary to differentiate between various national conditions because China, the main global emitter, has a value per habitant of 6 tons of CO2, while India's is well below 2.
Srinivas Krishnaswamy, of the NGO CAN South Asia, is asking for a more leading role of the BASIC countries (Brazil, South Africa, India and China). They are already part of the G77+China group, but Krishnaswamy notes that they are increasingly behaving as an official negotiating group. This could be interpreted as a natural evolution of the developing countries' block characterized by growing differences among them in terms of interest in the oil economy, level of development and direct hardship due to climate change-related consequences. To the group belong countries as different as Saudi Arabia, China, Tuvalu and Bangladesh.
There is finally another important point that may be on the discussion table in the days to come. It is the proposal presented by Papua New Guinea (PNG) and Mexico at the beginning of last week and already introduced in a less strong way by PNG at the Copenhagen conference. The proposal is to move the current consensus-based decision-making process towards a qualified majority approach. According to informal rumors, there is growing sympathy for this proposal, despite the opposition of some important parties. If nothing else this would force clarification of the meaning of "consensus," often left to the interpretation of the COP Presidency, and speed up the decision process, considering that climate change will not wait for the conclusion of the long political debate.


text:
Looking for an independent midwife?
An independent midwife can offer a holistic approach to your journey to becoming a parent. Read more about what an independent midwife can do for you during pregnancy, birth and in the postnatal period.
Teams of Brussels-based midwives
In Brussels there are several teams of independent midwives, many of whom speak English. Teams include:
Zwanger in Brussel www.zwangerinbrussel.be (website in English, French and Dutch)
Maison de la naissance
www.maisondelanaissance.be/contacts.htm (website in French, but if you click on the name of a midwife you can see the languages she speaks)
www.naissance-amala.be/en (website in English, French and Dutch)
Bolle buik - serving Brussels and the east side of Flemish Brabant (see map on their website for the area served)
www.bollebuik.be (website in English and Dutch)
Especially popular within the expat community, English midwife Jo Everatt offers postnatal support and is also an IBCLC lactation consultant.
Professional unions of midwives
Union professionnelle des sages-femmes belges – professional union of Belgian midwives (francophone)
www.sage-femme.be/parents/trouver-une-sage-femme/ (website in French, but you can find details of midwives per language/region/specialty)
- Flemish midwives association
www.vlov.be (website in Dutch; you can find details of midwives per region)


text:
Thread: identifying fish
26th October 2017 #1
- Join Date
- Oct 2017
- Posts
- 3
identifying fish
I'm still trying to learn how to differentiate the fish that I catch. If it's not a perch I tend to struggle. I did have a nice tench yesterday, but also something that I think might be a carp of some form.
Could someone knowledgeable help me identify this fish - but also the key factors that lead to its identification?
It's around 15 inches in length, if that helps - the net's far too big
26th October 2017 #2
This is a tench. The Identifying features are the fact it has red eyes and blue fins.
Somebody more knowledgeable will be able to help you furtherMark
"At the end of the day it's another day over" Les Misérables - Victor Hugo
26th October 2017 #3
- Join Date
- Oct 2017
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- 3
Ah, thank you. It was far more yellow than I'd expected from a tench, with those interesting patterns and a lovely rich yellow bellow.
Very pretty fish though.
26th October 2017 #4
I have had some lovely Golden Tench off the Warks Avon, but strangely in the depths of winterRiver anglers Go with the flow.
26th October 2017 #5
Cedric have a look at this mate it will help you out. http://www.fish-uk.com/fish_species.htm click on the species for more info on them.PROLINE ANGLING PRODUCTS
26th October 2017 #6
And it's green and slimeyJohn
27th October 2017 #7
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- Oct 2017
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27th October 2017 #8
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- 1,250
- Blog Entries
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Looks like a normal tench to me. Golden tench are a lot lighter in colour. If you catch one you'll know. This one is predominantly green. Most fish have a lighter belly and darker back. The darker back is for camouflage against predators from above. Fish caught from coloured water can often seem lighter in colour as the pigmentation is not needed as much.MATRIX HALIFAX


text:
tuesday excuse-to-use-the-phrase-'wagons' football thread
City close the gap on United to a mere 12 points. The battle for the drop seems to be crying out for one of the bottom five to hit a vein of form and pull clear.
anything else?
- urbanfox this'd this
are gonna hit a vein of form and pull clear
Nothing surprises me any more
I would feel a bit ho hum.ChintzyLacroix this'd this
just imagine the Tyldsley / Townsend comments tonight
each time Madrid get a free kick within shooting range. Ah that's a nice way to start the day.
'so he is human after all'
- urbanfox, Matt_was_taken, SenorDingDong, Vian, badmanreturns, 8stepstoperfection, Severed799, fitzcarraldo, and gecko this'd this
During the Arsenal - Bayern match
me and a mate were playing 'ITV Gobshite Commentary Bingo.' Great fun. I won when Giroud or someone put one straight at the keeper and Townsend declared he had "hit it too well."
tell you what's doing my nut in at the moment with commentary:
`oh! That's GREAT refereeing!` every fucking time one of them allows play to go on then calls it back when it's clear no advantage has been gained.
Or when you get "oh, the referee was VERY late with the whistle there",
as if it's somehow suspicious that the referee didn't blow for a foul until three quarters of a second had passed from the incident.
Just like when a referee's assistant flags for offside "very late"
I think football officials are expected by commentators to have superhuman reaction times.
... and get every decision spot on based on instinct,
not through thinking them through.Raanraals this'd this
or imply the official(s) hasn't made a decision
when he has and it's to NOT give a foul, or whatever the fuck.
Jeffrey Dahmer
I'll get back to you on the rest.
- thewarn this'd this
that tiny villa left back from the 90s
pascal cygan/cannavaro
frank labouef
alan hutton
de la pena
bobby charlton
Manager: christian gross
even in a comedy bald xi
Martin Skrtel & Jonjo Shelvey fail to get a look in
Yeah, i'm already struggling between cygan and cannavaro...
i don't need another CB
surely Jaap Stam needs to be in there
- Body_In_The_Thames this'd this
What, no Lombardo, Letchkov or Onopko?
Alan Wright was the Wagons defender.
lombardo is a good shout
he was proper bald.
- meths, Royter-Hatfood, thewarn, and Reckoning this'd this
Alan Wright
Is who I believe you are after at left back
(ball soars into crowd)colon_closed_bracket, badmanreturns, 8stepstoperfection, Parsefone, urbanfox, no-class, the_dazzled, and jontosh2001 this'd this
Struggling to think of a tie where I couldn't care less about the result.
Any chance that neither team goes through?
problem is, he hit it too well
when welbeck hits the corner flag from six yards outJordan_229_2 this'd this
DONETSK vs DORTMUND
LET'S GO. 2-2 first leg, better than vulgarball
remember when him and Gosling
were both the future of Everton and now they're both complete sicknotes
scorecast for tonight?
RVP first scorer, 2-2.
I'm sure I saw an Opta stat earlier today
that said Bale had gone about 16 hours without providing an assist
Ashley Williams to Arsenal
according to the completely not made up report in the always reliable Guardian.
Would be a bit surprised if it happened, seems a bit of a smalltime, Liverpool thing to do.
He's very good at Swansea.
He'd be shit at Arsenal. A 6'5" 28 year old Beckenbauer would be shit at Arsenal.
that's an improvement on our defence.
Williams would be a decent option (and fill Djourou's homegrown spot)
but I don't think he, or any other defender out there, is the answer to our problems while the coaching and organisation is so clearly lacking.Royter-Hatfood this'd this
Wins for Brighton, Milwall and Charlton would be handy.
Birmingham v Blackpool 19:45 Bristol City v Brighton 19:45 Burnley v Barnsley 19:45 Cardiff v Derby 19:45 Huddersfield v Middlesbrough 19:45 Leicester v Leeds United 19:45 Millwall v Wolves 19:45 Nottm Forest v Ipswich 19:45 Peterborough v Charlton 19:45 Watford v Sheff Wed 19:45 Bolton v Blackburn 20:00 Crystal Palace v Hull 20:00
the quality of the photoshop bants on the Guardian's The Gallery
has really declined
they need to really pick it up
Bale, Rafa, the return of Big Ronnie C, The Republique Geordie, Beckham at PSG
I'm yet to find a decent place in that area
Have watched football in The Lucas Arms but it's nothing special.
Better off walking somewhere else
The Prince Arthur down the side of Euston isn't a bad option. Or one of the various places on Upper St if you can get to Angel.
Cheers guys
I'm at a gig at Scala so didn't wanna stray too far, however it sounds like I don't have much choice!
Going to Forest Ipswich tonight.
Don't expet a classic...
"He is human after all"
"They're like two boxers sizing each other up in the early rounds"
'its ronaldo, it's one nil, its BRILLIANT!'
I can hear Tyldsley saying all these things in my head. Its making me angry/ill.
'would that have been a foul in your day Andy?'soapy, Royter-Hatfood, licky_kicky, and no-class this'd this
(fast break)
'and this is di maria, and this is benzema and now oziiiiii *dummies shot sending two players sliding across the floor* iiiiil....SCORES! *pause for crowd applause* stunning!'
'well, what can you say about that Clive?'
thats your job isn't it Andy?
(Varane scores bullet header from a corner)
'and if you hadn't heard of him before, you have now.'
'who else?'
Oh god
I'm begging Ronaldo desn't score tonight, because they WILL say this. Or at least something just as smug.
I know it's not Anfield
but I do wonder whether or not tonight will be 'magic' or 'historic'
Palace vs Hull tonight
We are unbeaten at home in a midweek game since March 2010. Plus this season we've not lost at home since the opening day.
On this basis, expect a Hull win.
"Ooh he's flapped at that one"
As Diego Lopez confidently punches the ball away to safety.
Just watched highlights of last nights game.
Thought Man City were quite lucky to create 20 goalscoring opportunities and win 0-1.
Are we all saying that the Wagons will soon be rolling out of town
/being relegated
What's the best thing to do when you get a free In-Play bet if you place a pre-match bet?
I can never work out the best thing to use the In-Play bet on
at the catholic club i watch the matches at sometimes
they have pick a number between 1 - 50
pound a go, winner keeps the pot
its not about the score
its pick a number
a sheet of paper with the numbers 1 through to 50 on it
if you put a pound in the jar you get to write your name next to the number
just before full time
they call out the winning number and you get to keep the pounds
A raffle then?
With no real connection to the football other than full time being the cut off for entries?
Not sure would allow him to use his In-Play bet
To enter your raffle though
he could pm me his number next time newcastle have an away fixture in the league
and if he wins i'll send him the pounds in a jiffy bag
scorecast with your stake
both teams to score so it's not ruined early (plus obviously both teams will score) (+ anytime scorer instead of first scorer)
in-play something that will likely happen, so at least you win money back. next team to score or ronaldo next scorer or something
feel weirdly confident about port vale away tonight
garry thompson first goal and bradford city win, 20/1
Brighton at home tonight
I'll take a draw, although a win would be better.
I was going to make a sarky comment about how
I can't wait for everyone on the internet to spend 3 hours moaning about ITV's commentary. But it seems you cunts spent the last 10 hours doing that already. Cunts.
You're better than that, obviously
Well done you.
I don't know what argument I'm supposed to have with you here
I'M ONLY HUMAN AFTER ALLSilkyskillz11 this'd this
reckon it'll be 2-2 tonight
brave United to go out on away goals
From an entertainment POV, you'd have to want an early Real goal.
It'd be interesting to see how United responded to that, while United scoring first (and especially early on) wouldn't necessarily change anything.
Don't envisage United struggling tonight.
Good chance Madrid will score, but United will get at least two. Would be naive to read too much into Madrid's two pointless wins over Barca, simple facts are that they're still in crisis and United have been better than them all season, have home advantage and should win.
Hey, mods
Now that banning is back can be get rid of this muffin until some time after the game?
Don't think you can ban other mods
Not sure any of them would risk it if they could.
forgot he was one too. Baffling decisionSilentcommand this'd this
It could all go very
Peep show sectioning episode very quickly couldn't it?wilykit this'd this
Clive Tylsdley at the end of tonights game, 92nd minute and Man Utd are about to go out
the ball's just in Utd's own half and he just screams AND SOLSKJAER HAS WON IT!!!!!the_dazzled this'd this
Are Utd fans booing Ronaldo?
Tons of goals and £80 million soon forgotten eh?
When they were
"eternal sunshining" the Van Persie rapist songs they took those memories out too.
i dunno, but its really not about that
dont want to be giving opposition players a lift do you?
but just keep your mouth shut, don't boo or cheer
Andy Townsend on Ronaldo: "I tinkling he's a top, top player." .
that is Andy Townsend's opinion of Ronaldo. He thinks he's a good footballer.
what do you think of 'Thriller', Andy?
Good album.forzaborza and harman_kardon this'd this
Crotch save by Lopes.
oh man
this is like watching Newcastle Swansea
- innisj this'd this
They've become really condescending
They seem determined to shower him in praise every time he manages to complete a pass without dying or pooing himself.
- eltham, soapy, badmanreturns, and pichaelmarker this'd this
At one point he did three facts about his age as if he was ticking them off a list. Yeah we get it, he's relatively old for a footballer ffs.
just try following the europa league
We're only up to the 64 team knock out round
Watching the game in a pub with about 350 Man United fans...
...in Wolverhampton.
I guess you had to find something to do
since Alfreton Town v Barrow was postponed.
ronaldo to score next 5/1
comeoooooon Ray head
my flatmate had van persie but got the odds wrong
Does that count?
what were they actually singing to our brave northern anthem?
I don't get this
should they just look guilty and smile a bit. It is a very big game
Fist pumps, high-fives = fine
Nani charging to the corner and jumping around in front of the fans = small time. Having said that this is the same Nani who celebrated tapping in what was actually a Spurs goal kick by doing a backflip.jopzorz this'd this
United have had a few strokes of luck on this game, eh!
- wonton this'd this
- badmanreturns and Kitchmo this'd this
dont cry itv
Man's game, five flying kicks to the chest in every match.If someone was stupid enough to try and jump to head the ball they deserved studs in their chest / face.
Was just about to type
that Nani could get a red for that when lo and behold
Its a flying kick to the chest. If the Madrid player had gone for that with his head....
Gif of Fergie swallowing his gum
and waddling down the steps please.bowiecokemirror and untrue this'd this
You wonder if the reverse could be true
As any red for madrid could be seen as evening it up now, so the referee may avoid it. Even if it is stone wall
awwwwwww shit
its fun when a side with a sense of entitlement like United's has something go against themDillingersWheelman and harman_kardon this'd this
What about Real?
Even more so the case.
Ramos scored an own goal
although I would like Mourinho to win the champions league at Real because it would be s shame for a side so good to go unrewardedKitchmo this'd this
The team will still be there next season
nonetheless, looks like they will get that chance
Those of us playing ITV commentary bingo
Please add "heroic", "dogged", "last-ditch", "brave" and "Lionheart" to your cards please.
Bonus multiplier for
having the smallest task Giggs completes that is met by rapturous praise? I've got ties his shoe laces.
- rich-t this'd this
what a shotstill_here this'd this
Perfect type of player
to put on in this situation. Getting loads of time and space around the box. Moving the ball quickly.
Love Mourinho's reaction to the goal
Oh, we've scored. Sit the fuck down Karim.theguywithnousername, harman_kardon, wonton, umlaut_ampersand, and DanielKelly this'd this
what beautiful build up play
Madrid are wonderful
This is starting to look like
the 1 - 6 derby.
I know it is really smalltime of me
but this is great.harman_kardon, twentynine, umlaut_ampersand, Parsefone, and Teeej this'd this
I can remember Rafael getting sent off stupidly against Bayern Munich
when United were in a comfy position a few years back. I love it when they shoot themselves in the foot like that. I can only imagine the sense of injustice their fans feel knowing they are the better team but still losing.
- harman_kardon this'd this
As long as Fergie comes out in the interview afterwards incandescent with rage
and the different shades of red he goes gives viewers epileptic fits.
I'll accept him refusing to do an interview
And sending that bloke who looks like a newsagent out in his place.
he's far too riled to refuse an interview.
Undoubtedly pulling out the 'never should ref'd this level of game'.
Will he try to ban the entire
European media from his press conference?
Genuinely annoyed for United, which is rare
If they don't pull this off chances are no more British teams will be in it. Some people probably prefer that but it means ITV will probably treat it more as an afterthought.
They'll show as many games as they would have done either way
Turns out people are pretty interested in the Champions League
Hopefully they'll send the B team commentators out thrn
Rather than those pair of dickheadsJohnEW this'd this
United will still win this.
C'mon lads, earn me some dough.
Clock ticking on the
How long until Rooney clatters Ronaldo? sweepstake.
should have replaced Giggs with Rooney went we went down to 10.
fucking disappointing this. Looked like we had the measure of them until the sending off, but since then we've lost all composure.
United players flopping around
at the slightest hint of contact now.
this is a great game
for the (broadly) neutral
- Smileadelic this'd this
Goal kick.Parsefone this'd this
Very sneaky little shirt pull on Kaka to stop him
getting onto that through ball.
99 reference
BINGOs_p_g and theguywithnousername this'd this
You can really tell that things are bleak.
Tyldesley's felt the need to get an1999 Champions League final reference in. He must realise it's his last chance for this season.
Another hat trick
he's 39 as well
He shoots, he scores
He fought in both wars.
Super Kevin Philips.
- badmanreturns this'd this
- rich-t this'd this
wow what a bunch of cunts
going for the ref there clapping in his face
- bowiecokemirror, mug_mug_mug, harman_kardon, Teeej, and Silentcommand this'd this
Silver medal for Ashley Young
For getting in the ref's face and disputing a decision that occurred when he wasn't on the pitch.
Shit cunts.
I know ITV are ITV but I genuinely don't get what they're going on about.
There was nothing even slightly controversial about the red card. Yeah - sometimes you might get away with a yellow for that but it was clear dangerous play and it's perfectly within the rules of the game to send him off.untrue, still_here, Nestor, Parsefone, and gonad this'd this
What are the rules?
High foot = red. I'm asking because I genuinely don't know.
so no midair kicking someone in the hip?
seems fair
ITV has just kind of cleared it up
it is verrrry vague, which seems to me a way of FIFA/UEFA covering their arses in situations like this. It gives a lot of leeway for a referee's opinion.s_p_g this'd this
Dangerous play is a red card.
As Chiles just said (whilst arguing against perversely) if you fly forward with your studs at chest height not watching where you're going, it's dangerous play.
Roy Keane is pretty much explaining this one - the intent isn't relevant.
Sorry - dangerous play *can* be a red card.
And I think it's hard to argue that flying in at chest height with studs up not watching where you're going doesn't count as dangerous play.
All refereeing decisions obviously come down to opinion and interpretations but it wasn't a particularly wild or unreasonable interpretation; there's no way it'd get rescinded in an appeal for example.
ex-ref Dermot Gallagher says
'At worst it was a yellow for dangerous play'
So yeah, lots of room for interpretation.
But...what about all the times a player does that, but doesn't catch anyone
And so everyone applauds them and says it's brilliant control. Obviously I'm not saying f Nani deserved a red then all first touches in that vein should be too...but surely that is where intention comes into it, and Nani didn't intend to make any contact with a player. Some would say its dangerous if there's a player around you, but if you don't know there is (and Nani didn't) then it is no more your fault than an innocuous collision.Loui_Tacceh this'd this
Tbf it's not just ITV.
A lot of people think the rules are more prescriptive and specific than they are. Most refs give a yellow for that sort of foul so I understand how people come to expect that. Ref is more than entitled to send someone off for that though.
Bit of luck for Real maybe but no team wins this trophy without that.
i havent seen it but how did it compare to de jong's tackle
That everyone was certain should definitely have been a red?
De Jong was looking at the player, Nani wasn't.
Nani was trying to control the ball as it came over his shoulder, and was basically about to control the ball.
De Jong wouldn't have controlled the ball even if the Spain player wasn't there.
that gets a yellow card nearly every time ive seen it happen. Either that or just a freekick. To say theres nothing even slightly controversial about it is rubbish. Its dangerous play but its not dangerous in a way where youre really gonna injure the other guy badly very often. He actually kicked him in his side.
Sure - as you say those often get a yellow card.
But it's a bit like the Kompany red in the Manchester derby FA cup match a year or so back (where United players were clamouring FOR and got the red card for a two-footed challenge where Kompany actually won the ball) where it's possibly the harshest possible interpretation of the rules but, nonetheless, a perfectly valid interpretation of what the rules of the game are.
Maybe nothing controversial about it is a poor choice of words but what I mean is that it's not really possible to argue it's actually a 'wrong' decision within the laws of the game - just a very, very harsh one.
But the rules are so vague and down to self-regulation
That most decisions can be seen as harsh rather than wrong. As I said upthread, it's to protect the referees. If the rules had to be more clear cut I doubt the Nani situation would''ve resulted in a red.
I think it's also to do with the fact you can't calculate literally every permutation that can happen on a football pitch.
There'll always be grey areas.
But also it's nowhere near as vague as you suggest. Not every foul can be a red card and some can be reasonably rescinded later. But uncontrolled lunges towards the ball with your studs up and your foot at chest height aren't amongst those.
I'm willing to not get into this too much
as no one really likes a long rule debate, but I'd disagree with the word "lunge", because for me Nani is only moving his leg not his body...at worst it would be a kick but there isn't the force for that, he's trying to bring the ball down. The worst part is the studds up but I think Arbeloa was mainly hurt by how fast HE was moving. All interpretation though.
Okay so this weekend
some player goes for an overhead kick in the box and kicks a player in the face, which seems to happen every weekend. You're saying you wouldnt feel aggrieved at all if the player got sent off and played for your team despite this hardly ever being punished.
Its fine to say the ref is well within his rights but there seems to be a certain understanding among players and referees about what gets a yellow and what gets a red regardless of the rulebook and its pretty unheard of for a player to get a red here.
My word. Wolves won!
At about the 13th attemptAaron this'd this
seconds away from a perfect night.
decent away point at leicester but we need 3 against palace on saturday
was it even possible for an explosion of bellendry not to happen between man utd and real madrid. rafa to knock them out of the cup on sunday please.
Fuck's sake Jose
Just drop in a CV while you're there.
Well, that's a shame.
Can't fault any of the players for that, all put in a blinder tonight.
You have to be 100% sure you're getting decisions like that right, and I've got no idea how he's come to that conclusion.
#lovedourtime, regardless.
whats that now? 1 goal in his last 10 games or something
Bit of a slump in form rvp really
Jose trolling. Hard.
Come back to the prem son, we miss you.PickledOeuf this'd this
The best team lost
Mourinho :D
running off from his interview.
Roy Keane trolling so hard
He really hates Chiles doesn't he.
I love how massively intimidated everyone is of Roy Keane.
Myself included.harman_kardon this'd this
no more red card chat please
- shoulda picked up modric
- shoulda scored dem headers
annoyed that it's come down to something contentious. played well though, finishing wasn't on.
Ronaldo not celebrating
: (
1. Cardiff 35 22 5 8 57:37 71
2. Watford 36 20 6 10 71:45 66
3. Hull 35 20 5 10 51:39 65
4. Crystal Palace 35 17 10 8 61:42 61
5. Leicester 35 17 7 11 57:30 58
6. Brighton 35 14 14 7 50:35 56
7. Nottingham 36 14 12 10 51:46 54
8. Middlesbrough 36 17 3 16 55:55 54
9. Leeds 35 14 8 13 45:49 50
10. Bolton 35 12 12 11 53:49 48
11. Burnley 36 13 9 14 49:49 48
12. Derby 36 11 12 13 51:50 45
13. Blackburn 35 11 12 12 44:46 45
14. Charlton 36 11 11 14 45:50 44
15. Millwall 35 12 8 15 44:52 44
16. Huddersfield 36 11 11 14 38:62 44
17. Blackpool 36 10 13 13 51:50 43
18. Birmingham 36 10 13 13 46:58 43
19. Ipswich 36 11 9 16 35:55 42
20. Sheffield Wed 35 11 7 17 40:50 40
21. Wolves 36 10 9 17 42:50 39
22. Barnsley 35 10 8 17 44:57 38
23. Peterborough 35 11 4 20 53:63 37
24. Bristol City 36 10 6 20 51:65 36
Not sure if I'm pleased or unhappy with the last few days.
We're back to the bottom but much closer to safety.
Brighton didn't even get a shot against us today.
so many draws today. Just minutes fro going 14th.
A really entertaining 0-0
I just hope we don't rue a couple of missed opportunities. At least one stonewall penalty as well, although appreciate the ref might have had a different angle. Unbeaten in 5 at home, 67% possession and no opposition shots on target? Promotion form, that is ;)
Who do you support then?
It looks totally surreal for a Brighton fan.
oh Boro
what happened at the end there tonight :(
Terriers scored in the 86th and 90ths mins to win 2-1
- thorners this'd this
absolutely gutted to lose 2 points seconds from the end.
as massive as hey wouldve been and brought leicester's spot into contention. But you'd have to say brighton dropped points more based on their opposition.
couldnt ask for a better april of fixtures before crunch match games in our final 2. just hope we go into the brighton match in 2 months still fighting for a place - if we can keep up our defence and home form, whilst keeping up the odd away point, we might be able to.
if we do make it though it's going to be very very boring though. loads of 1-0s
any idiot who has played football knows it was never a red.
youre a bit thick
night pal
pretty happy with a draw
now everyone pretend this is loads of money
- codpieceface, mug_mug_mug, gonad, harman_kardon, Kitchmo, and 84joe this'd this
Times are hard, you know..
Been like, down on my luck. Things have been going from bad to worse, I don't think I can pay the bills this month........
shall I pm you my bank account and sort code ;-P
- harman_kardon, Axis, and Severed799 this'd this
Got loads of good shirts from these people back when they were 'soccertriads' - not sure why the name has changed, could be something dodgy but I suspect they're still great. Perfect quality, correct lettering etc. Think it's just factory seconds rather than fakes.
Absolutely ridiculous ITV bullshit over the red card but that's already been covered
Fergie and Rio not exactly covering themselves with glory with their post-match antics.
With that said I thought United bar van Persie were excellent in the first half and Real extremely vague; hell of a lot of wayward switching attempts. Nani got them off the hook without any question. Varane was man of the match.
If you're talking about Varane...then yeah I agree, he made a mistake
Watching the few high profile games he's had recently (or highlights of in one case) he seems like he's not afraid to take a risk. Thankfully they usually seem to come off, which is a testament to his ability, but I hope that when they don't people don't say "oh he's not as good as he thought". What makes him so good is his confidence to do things that aren't the safest option, bu result in a much better situation for the team if he pulls it off. So far, his ratio of doing that is pretty damn high.
Paddy Power refunded losing bets because Ronaldo scored! I'm rich! Rich I tells ya!
we played well enough
could have won it when Real shut up shop. just a damn shame it had to be decided by a card. by the book, yeah, but we all know a great many top level refs would have been lenient.
(Howard Webb, etc...)
Let's be honest, United were embarrassing.
Could've ended about 2-8.Nestor, obsessed_with_united, and no-class this'd this
the best side lost.
I don't think either side were much to write home about
Both teams were incoherent and wasteful with possession, particularly in the final third. Think Lopez, Varane and Ramos all did well for Madrid, as did Rafael and Wellbeck for United, but too many players from both sides were almost completely anonymous (Kheidira in particular was nearing Milford levels of being neither seen nor heard).
Had to check Khedira was playing at one point
In his defence, he usually goes about bullying the opposition midfielders, and there wasn't much to bully tonight.
My favourite bit of this thread so far is where people are going
oh yeah you should listen to Adrian Chiles, he knows his shit. Good god.
It's fucking annoying that yet again a big match has been spoilt by a sending off. It's not like you can really pin the whole result on that one thing, but it just spoils everything. It was such a tense match that could have gone either way and then suddenly it's shit.
listen to chiles =
listen to him directly quote the rulebook in regards to the decision.
cant really be too wrong there
Not every bit of dangerous play is a straight red card.
It's impossible to have written rules for every conceivable circumstance. The referee's interpretation is critical.
9/10 referees would call it differently
I'd wager
Ha ha.
Love it when people say that a red card spoiled the game, especially when it was easily justified.
Ha ha.
Do you really love it?
Don't think it's too outrageous to suggest the game was spoiled, or that the red card wasn't justified.
I actually thought that the game was pretty lifeless up until the sending off.
The card's very easily justified if you know the rules and watch the incident. Sometimes those are given and sometimes they're not, but the idea that it was outrageous or unjustifiable is laughable.
A sending off might change a game, but it doesn't spoil it. That's like a murderer complaining that getting put in jail ruined his life.
And I I do love it.
It gives the Man Utd fans a reason to feel that there's an injustice even in defeat.
I know the rules and have seen the incident, cheers.
Completely disagree that either of those definitions would be laughable.
Good analogy though!!
don't get carried away, it was against Milwall.
met some great wolves fans in the pub tonight on their way to the game
tbf, I've only ever met great Wolves fans in pubs, great bunch of lads etc......
Missed the whole game.
I've read on the BBC site that it wasn't a red card at all, but I'm getting the impression from the football forum that it was definitely deserved.
Was it deserved?
Stone wall Yellow
Deserved? Maybe.
Justifiable? Yes, easily.
Thats what I was reading. I was almost feeling sorry for utd, and then
I come on here and really confused and that
Just schadenfreude on here
Compare it to somewhere like Germany, where everyone hates Bayern until they play in the CL. Here, people are more loyal towards the teams they hate.
Disagree - I actually wanted United to win.
I think ITV's coverage didn't help. if they'd not been so adamant it was a ridiculously and unquestionably bad decision (which it obviously wasn't) then I'd be a bit less adamant that it was a reasonable decision.
Nani was unlucky but it was definitely enough to make it the ref's prerogative to give a red card.
We can continue the debate upthread, if you like
As for the schadenfreude thing, it's just the people who were actually happy at that 10 minutes of football (unless they were Madrid fans). n fairness there's a lot to dislike about United, but in other countries they seem to forget about that come midweek.
Don't take this the wrong way but I'm not sure it'd get us anywhere!
I don't mean that disrespectfully - you're entitled to your opinion and you've expressed it well but I reckon we've both pretty much fully set out our arguments on this one and we might just have to agree to disagree...
Yeah good call
I wouldn't say I'm stubborn but I could count on one hand the amount of times I've changed my opinion RE a refereeing decision (unless new video evidence comes to light).
please be sympathetic
because Nestor and kik.
I'm trying, but my friend is a utd fan who texts me everytime
(in real time) we concede a goal. Every goal this season, he has texted GOOOOAAAAALLLL!!
That's quite a few texts.
I'm trying to take the moral high ground, but my right hand keeps crawling towards my phone, Evil Dead II style.
Yeah your lot are pretty terrible in both victory and defeat. I'd suck it up and take it on the chin big man.
I'll have to console myself with OMW's forgiving bosom
*high fives stairs*
That was never a red.
Can't believe the consensus on here seems to be that it was.
Don't be too disillusioned though United fans- Howard Webb is refereeing your game on the weekend. I'm sure he'll restore your faith in refereeing soon enough. (Rag conspiracy)
Love the number of people giving it "BUT HIS EYE WUZ ON THE BALL". Because that makes it a less serious incidence of dangerous play, you see.
Easily a red card. Ended the game, but you should be blaming Nani for that, not the ref.
For me, it is hardly more than a collision
Players bring the ball down like that all the time, but it's never considered dangerous. In this case a player was near him but it is as much Arbeloa's fault as his own.
Consensus on here seems to be red. At least a few agree with me, unlike when Welbeck scored that fluke against Sweden.
Arbeloa was just trying to intercept
it's not his fault at all
Well I don't really mean it's hs fault
but it's like a collision, not exactly foul play on either part.
tbh i don't think it was REALLY DANGEROUS
and loads of players control balls like that yeah.
But i think the point we are missing is, he should have headed it rather than trying to control it.
with the benefit of hindsight though
If he genuinely doesn't know Arbeloa is near then keeping the ball is better than heading it anywhere (and with Nani, it really would go anywhere)
Not really though.
If he genuinely doesn't know where Arbeloa (or in fact any other player is), why on earth is he waving his boot around at shoulder height?
There might not be the intent to injure someone, but it's reckless and dangerous, and stupid.
I think you are being seriously myopic here
Players have their foot at that height quite often, to bring the ball down. Most of the time it results in no injury, when there has been contact I really can't recall a red being given for it...I think the most puzzling thing about this debate for me is how people are saying, because it was dangerous, it was therefore a red. How many times do you see that, really?
You're right, it is relevant
it makes it worse. He has chosen to fly at the ball with his boot at chest height without looking at where he's going- Do you think he has a case to be aggrieved about getting sent off for dangerous play? Honestly? What if he studs Arbeloa's face with that effort? Absolutely ludicrous bants.
Forgetting your other points...
looking at the ball rather than squarely aiming at Arbeloa actually makes it MORE dangerous?
If he's looked at where he's going
then he's made the calculation that it's going to be a fairly harmless collision. He might be wrong, but at least he's bothered to make a calculation at all.
If only all footballers didn't try karate kicks at their blind spot.
I know it's been a hard night but just admit you're wrong, pal. Ref's perfectly within his rights to send him off.bowiecokemirror this'd this
Sorry, found myself reaching for an invisible digestive there.
Nah, if he looked at where he was going then he would've pulled out
Or at least lowered his foot. If not then he knows contact will be made, intent comes into play and he should be sent off. So where he is looking is keycoolerthantv this'd this
He has chosen to run onto a ball coming over his shoulder and bring it down
in the same way that 99% of other players in a similar position would have done. It's football not sodding GBH.
How do you feel about clashes of heads?
Exacty this
In extreme situations is liking saying kicking is bad but nutting is fair game.
See also:
Overhead kick attempts that miss and hit opposition players.
If he'd kicked Arbeloa in the face I don't think we'd be having this argument.
But yeah, I think he has every reason to feel aggrieved. Dangerous play doesn't necessarily mean a red card. I feel the referee has interpreted it wrong, and the fact Nani clearly didn't intend it should had factored into his interpretation.
He's got a couple of seconds to make an interpretation
and he's seen a player boot another in the ribs as a result of a very high challenge for the ball. You can argue he could have given a yellow card for it, but equally being indignant that he decides to show a red because he should have some nebulous concept of what his intent was is silly.
You just see very few high challenges result in reds though
A minimal number, really. So he must have thought it was pretty nasty.
Just watching the highlights.
Love how Clive called Giggs "ageless", before continually reminding us of his age.
Steved - funny.
Parsefone - eh?
Forza - Forza
How many City fans in this thread are taking pleasure over a United loss?
Then you remember that, other than a league win last year, their mentality / simple pleasures = only pleasures hasn't changed. I'm glad you all enjoyed it. Says a lot about your expectations for me.
got nothing to do with City.
Logically from our point of view it'd be better for United to be in this competition for as long as possible, and from a neutral perspective it's a shame the match got killed off because of one of your lads losing his head. You could say it says more about you that your only post in this thread is about the supposed mentality of City fans rather than anything about the night and your own team...but that obviously leads to a fairly petty spiral, doesn't it?
Goodness me.
Bitter, much?
How on earth were Hull second, they were appealing tonight.
Only 4-2 flattered them severely. Palace were dominant, and quit brilliant to watch.
Cardiff are continuing their yearly choke. I think we can catch them.
And I said yesterday Huddersfield will do alright.
as a city fan, i don't think the nani foul was a red
but the united fans crying at the decision after the amount of favourable decisions they get every week is funny as anything
thats a myth though
we are 9th in the table of decisions that went in our favour. You can check the previous season too. It says we should have won the league last year...
other than tell us
how things would pan out if some of the really crucial decisions actually got called correctly (after considerable review of video evidence by several independent parties), which was exactly your point. You were saying man u get all the decisions, this table proves that you're wrong and that it's a myth. I don't see the confusion.
the ABU brigade are embarrassing themselves tonight
No way a red card for me - those of you claiming it's red without a doubt are showing impartiality at best
And besides, worthy of hatred United may be, but those Francoista cunts are fifty times worse than they'll ever be. How's that for some impartiality eh
I agree...though equal distast for them flips when I see them both play, as they are both decent teams in their own right.
I don't think anyone's saying that it was a red without a doubt.
More that the claims that the red was outrageous or could in no way be justified are ridiculous.
Spent far too long debating the red tonight
As a last thought...imagine being a United fan who went for a (long) smoke after the O.G and came back after Ronaldo's goal..
"The Fuck!?"
must be said, united's reaction to the ref from manager to players was utterly classless
expect more from them
not saying they were right at all
but I could see myself finding it very hard to keep calm in the same situation. They're only human.
Once they look back, they'll regret it, hopefully apologise, and that'll be the end of it. We all make mistakes.
doesn't work like that though
you can't just say 'i realise i was wrong' and that's fine. eventually, hopefully soon, united will have to realise they're a club like everyone else and will have to accept decisions as they are
I can understand any player from any club
being a complete wreck and finding it hard to be composed in such a circumstance. It's not a united thing, it's a football player thing. Don't go suggesting for a minute it's only man u that do this. Yes they're wrong, but humans are human. you can punish them as much as you want but I bet you they'd still do it again in the heat of the moment.
i'd never suggest it was just a united thing
but clapping in the ref's face like ferdinand did? i've seen cards given for a lot less. why wasn't he booked?
also why is ferguson allowed to constantly get away with it? what about this earlier in the year?
their club is inherently immoral
I don't know why Ferdinand wasn't booked
but to be honest, it's not like the referee showed himself to be of high standard, I'm surprised he didn't get more things wrong.
Why is Ferguson allowed to get away with it? He doesn't, he gets banned/fined, just like all the other managers who do it.
And what exactly did Ferguson do that you say he got away with? He didn't actually go up to the referee. He pointed and shouted at him from a distance as he walked off to the tunnel at the end and had a rant at the fourth official (which is the first thing any manager does when a decision like that goes against them). He even exercised restraint by not coming out for the post match, which if you weren't cynical, you could say was him learning from past experience.incandenza_ this'd this
I hate united the much as the next guy
and have had a about a million beers tonight, but, that really wasnt a red, was it? at no point was he even aware of the man i front of him?......anyway, was still well funny for fergie;s reactionshrewbie this'd this
- incandenza_, Loui_Tacceh, and Nestor this'd this
but the real story is Dortmund winning 3-0
no more British teams in Cl, can't wait
hmm. only saw the first half of the game
seen the nani incident. one of those things that are usually not given, and so i can see why people/players are angry about it, but its by no means the 'wrong' decision to give a red.
genuinely can't remember so much glee around facebook/twitter/on here about a Man Utd defeat from people whose team are not affected by the result whatsoever. i can understand things like the Leeds 1-0 and City's 6-1 mauling being brilliant for neutrals, but its getting to baffling levels now.
only a side-point but its interesting how Man Utd and Rio are being labelled as a 'disgrace' for the same type of post-match actions that Chelsea/Drogba were seen as being 'right on' for by most football fans. well, its not really interesting i guess.
No idea which way the Chelsea game & the rest of the season will go. Going out of two cups in the space of the week could cause a CATASTROPHIC pants-shitting.
weren't chelsea/drogba vilified after that barca game?
i don't think it should've been a red but picking over refereeing decisions is always so boring and pointless everyone shut up night
by most neutral football fans? absolutely not, no
in some areas of the press, sure, but im just talking about peoples general comments
Also, without wanting to "defend" Chelsea (God forbid)
Chelsea suffered several poor decisions in that Barca game, including having two or three stonewall pelanties denied.
Man U only have cause for complaint about a red card that was justifiable but arguably a little harsh.
Not quite the same thing.
Because you've been cruising with bog all challenge for a long time now?
Not difficult to see why there might be an outpouring of schadenfreude over this, particularly as it involves a ref decision going against United.
Embarrassing yourself with the Drogba comparison. Ferdinand's got plenty of previous for getting mouthy with officials after games, it's deeply unsavoury to see particularly as he's supposed to be setting an example.
how is the drogba comparison 'embarassing'?
although of course it has no relevance to the two incidents themselves, are you saying Drogba has no previous in getting mouthy with officials outside of that Barca game? and why is Ferdinand supposed to be setting an example, exactly?
Because nobody bar DanielKelly said he was "right on" and doesn't think Drogba isn't a spanner?
Because he's one of your most senior players and should by rights be pulling other players away from picking up likely pointless bookings?
you're so much better at trolling than kik
except youre not actually trolling.
i dunno it's impressive, or something. But mainly annoying.
even if it was a yellow card nani should still have been sent off for his simulation after the challenge, assuming arbeloa hadn't used his ribs to break his studs or something?
Do you reckon Ferguson will retire at th'end of the season?
He might as well