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Skip to comments.Roots of Subversion (Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, by Abbé Augustin Barruél, SJ
Posted on 03/04/2006 9:40:01 PM PST by Coleus
Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, by Abbé Augustin Barruél
The years 1796 to 1798 saw the publication of two important presentations of evidence concerning an international conspiracy, then only decades old, which had devastated France and was threatening the entire civilized world. That conspiracy had coalesced into a continuing organizational structure with the founding of the Order of the Illuminati by Adam Weishaupt on May 1, 1776 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria.
The conspirators in the Order came from the top levels of society, and their ultimate goal was the destruction of all existing religious and political institutions, all forms of traditional religious faith, and all governments. They were committed to a campaign of worldwide revolution to destroy the existing order. They hoped that the continuing organizational structure they established would eventually succeed in imposing on the world a "solution" to the chaos they had caused: a totalitarian world government -- a "new world order."
Evil Exposed
In 1785 the Elector of Bavaria, Carl Theodore, discovered the secret papers of the Illuminati, which revealed the evil plan. He published and distributed the papers to all endangered heads of state. The two important studies published from 1796-98 were substantially based on this primary source documentation.
One of those works, Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe, published in Dublin, Ireland in 1797, was written by John Robison, a prominent scientist and professor at the University of Edinburgh. His work, which was originally circulated in Great Britain and THE NEW AMERICAN Republic, was reprinted in 1967 by Western Islands, the publishing arm of the John Birch Society, under the shortened title Proofs of a Conspiracy. It is still available in paperback (contact American Opinion Book Services at the above address).
The second work, much lengthier and more detailed, is Abbé Augustin Barruéls Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, the subject of this review. Born in France in 1741, Abbé Augustin Barruél was educated by the Jesuits and entered the Society of Jesus. During suppression of the Jesuits in France, he resided for some years in Moravia and Bohemia and traveled in Italy as a tutor for a young nobleman. In addition to Memoirs, he wrote several other books prior to his death in 1820, including his History of the Clergy During the French Revolution.
Originally in separate volumes, Memoirs consists of four parts. The first two volumes, originally published in French in 1796, concern the anti-Christian and anti-monarchical conspiracy of 1796 and expose certain French and European philosophers of the early to mid-18th century, particularly members of the French Academy in Paris.
To illustrate the vicious philosophical campaign against Christianity, Barruel focuses on the works of Voltaire. As for the anti-monarchical campaign, he examines the works of Montesquieu and Rousseau. Modern-day advocates of a limited constitutional republic who may wonder what is wrong with opposition to monarchy should keep in mind that the conspiracy which Barruel traced -- from philosophers whom he called the "sophisters of impiety" to the Illuminati -- targeted all religious and political institutions and forms of government, including the infant American Republic, and sought as the ultimate goal an international totalitarianism.
Rise of the Order
One of the principal weapons used by the sophisters of impiety, particularly Diderot, was the publication of the Encyclope'die beginning in 1751, and its eventual Supplement. The conspirators hoped that this work would become the standard reference for all learned and literate persons on virtually all subject matter. Barruel demonstrates at length that it was used as a comprehensive, subtle carrier of propaganda and indoctrination favorable to subversive strategy.
The third part of Memoirs concerns the Illuminati. Therein Barruel presents in greater detail than Robison's Proofs of a Conspiracy the primary source documents captured from the Order. The rapidly growing influence of the Order in, and outside of, Bavaria is carefully traced both before and after the French Revolution.
Barruel recounts the European freemasonic conference at Wilhelmsbad in the summer of 1782, at which Weishaupt's representatives recruited the leadership of French, German, and other European Grand Orient freemasonry into the Illuminati, thus bringing those bodies under the Order's control. Much evidence in Barruel's and other contemporary sources testifies to this fact. The leaders of the Illuminist French Grand Orient ran the Jacobin clubs and were responsible for planning and orchestrating all the major events of the French Revolution.
In the final part of Memoirs, Barruel reviews the tragic success of the Illuminati's first experiment in subversive destruction, the French Revolution of 1789, from which France has never fully recovered. Barruel's review of this episode, along with historian Nesta Webster's outstanding 1919 work The French Revolution: A Study in Democracy, provide a fairly complete history of the Conspiracy's first attempt at organized subversion.
Sounding the Alarm
It would be hard to overstate the influence Robison's and Barruel's works had on events in America for several decades after their publication. In 1799, George Washington read Robison's Proofs of a Conspiracy, which only reconfirmed his awareness of the danger to our Republic from Illuminists who tried to bring revolutionary Jacobinism to our shores. Five years earlier Illuminist agents Genet and Fauchet had used front organizations ("democratic societies") to trigger the so-called "Whiskey Rebellion" in Pennsylvania. Only Washington's public exposure and opposition with armed troops stopped this early campaign of sedition without bloodshed.
Regrettably, during Washington's Presidency his Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson was closely allied to the French agents behind the Whiskey Rebellion. Perhaps simply deluded by his idealism at this time, Jefferson unsuccessfully opposed Washington's efforts to stop the conspirators. Jefferson defended Weishaupt and referred to Barruel's Memoirs as the "ravings of a Bedlamite."
Other prominent Americans did their best to warn the public of the Conspiracy's attempts, and they relied on Robison's and Barruel's works. They included Jedidiah Morse, author of early history and geography textbooks and the father of Samuel Morse; Yale University president Timothy Dwight; and Seth Payson, author of Proofs of the Real Existence and Dangerous Tendency of Illuminism (1802), which summarized Robison's and Barruel's works and included evidence from Morse of Illuminist efforts in America.
President Washington and Jedidiah Morse were the outstanding American "alarmists" of their time, and they were attacked by their enemies just as members of the John Birch Society and other "conspiratorialists" are attacked today. Washington's and Morse's weapon was the truth, and Barruel's Memoirs and Robison's Proofs provided them with indispensable ammunition.
Interestingly, some historical personalities very close to, and devoted to, the Illuminist conspiracy valued and relied on the accuracy of Barruel's Memoirs. Among them was the British poet Percy Shelley, who not only "treasured" his copy but marveled at length over its descriptions of the destructiveness he hoped to see occur. French socialist leader Louis Blanc used Barruel's evidence as the basis for linking the early communist movement to its Illuminist origins. Barruel's Memoirs were translated and published in all major languages.
Of course, both Robison and Barruel were attacked by a few contemporary friends of the French Revolution, and have been attacked by orthodox historians ever since. Most of these criticisms are exercises in clarity of hindsight and are based on mistakes in translation or factual errors or omissions that always result when history is written chronologically close to the events. Anyone who has studied the major 19th and 20th century historians of the Master Conspiracy, as well as the primary source documents now available in reprint, can attest to the substantial accuracy of Robison's and Barruel's works.
Some have noted a distinction between Robison's thesis and Barruel's. Robison correctly argued that the Illuminati invaded and captured continental European (not British or American) Grand Orient free masonic lodges in order to use them as tools for infiltration and revolution. On the other hand, Barruel argued that the Illuminati was a natural outgrowth of freemasonry in its tracing of a pre-Illuminati philosophical plot against altar and throne involving numerous French freemasons. Once again, students of the Master Conspiracy today enjoy the benefit of much more data and a much larger perspective.
Crucial Reading
The new one-volume reprint of Memoirs includes Barruel's complete text, as well as a fine introduction by Fr. Stanley L. Jaki. It does not include, however, a postscript written by English translator Robert Clifford, which was published at the end of volume four of the 1798 London edition. The postscript, entitled "Application of Barruel's Memoirs of Jacobinism to the Secret Societies of Ireland and Great Britain," provides another 50 pages of evidence concerning the Illuminists' efforts to organize sedition and rebellion.
This reviewer cannot recommend too highly that any American who wishes to be well informed in the fight for freedom carefully read Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism. Barruel's impressive presentation provides thoughtful and penetrating insight not only into the events he reviews, but also into the strategies and tactics that the same Master Conspiracy that began as the Order of the Illuminati has employed ever since. Reading Memoirs will also provide one with added confirmation that the Master Conspiracy thesis advanced by British historian Nesta Webster and John Birch Society founder Robert Welch is overwhelmingly established by both logic and a physical mountain of evidence.
But don't just take this reviewer's word for it. Consider the words of British statesman Edmund Burke, author of Reflections on the Revolution in France, who said of Barruel's Memoirs: "Certain we are, that no book has appeared since the commencement of our labours, which was more necessary to be read, and weighed attentively, by every person of any property, whether hereditary or commercial; every person holding any rank in society; and every person who has within him a spark of zeal, either for the honour of God, or the welfare of mankind."
Would never have believed this before the Pledge was allowed to be taken out of the schools, and the recent UAE debacle.
Not so sure now.
Only thing that really explains a number of events over the last 3 administrations
. Think it's also interesting that we seem to get no choices for POTUS, save 'Skull-and-bones'.
Think definite attempts are being made in society to erase nationalistic, religious, familial, and cultural attachments, and re-interpret and/or ignore many historical events.
"destruction of all existing religious and political institutions, all forms of traditional religious faith, and all governments"
Sounds like a pretty accurate description of 3rd-world politics and economics.
Good food for thought. Thanks for posting.
Although I am a mason, shriner(the children's hospitals)and York Rite(Knight Templar = crusader), I've heard of the illuminati and their(satanic)one world rule idea. A question : if satan is so smart, how come the only long term job he can get is as the Garbage Man, taking out the human trash?
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VIDEO: Hearts Smash Paris, Set Up Showdown w/Mattoon Next Friday Night
Published on October 5 2013 12:43 am
Last Updated on October 12 2013 12:17 am
Written by Greg Sapp
We apologize that some of this week's video is shaky. We had very limited space to film at Paris.
The Effingham Hearts spotted Paris an early touchdown, then controlled the game the rest of the way, winning over the Tigers 41-7 in the last meeting ever between the two teams. The contest was heard on 979XFM and www.979xfm.com.
It was the third straight win for the Hearts, pushing them to 3-0 in Apollo Conference play and 3-3 overall.
Paris scored first on a one-yard touchdown run by Hunter Morris to cap a 10-play, 51-yard drive that came with 6:08 left in the first quarter.
The Hearts took over from there, though. Effingham tied the game with 4:27 left in the first quarter on a four-play, 49-yard drive capped by Zach Miller's 24-yard touchdown run and Michael Carie's extra point kick.
The Hearts took the lead with 57 seconds left before halftime when Miller took the ball 96 yards for a score on the first play of the series after the Tigers thought they had buried EHS inside their five-yard line.
Effingham scored with 8:03 left in the second quarter at the end of a six-play, 77-yard drive when Miller scored from 21 yards out and Carie's kick made it 21-7. The Hearts again scored with 4:10 left in the first half when Wolff kept the ball and sneaked from nine yards out into the end zone to cap a seven-play, 46-yard drive.
Effingham scored with 5:11 left in the third quarter to complete a drive that began on Paris' 10-yard line after a tremendous punt return by Marcus Robinson. The two-play drive ended with a touchdown pass from Wolff to Carter Hayes. The extra point try was blocked but the Hearts were up 34-7.
The final score came with 11:05 left in the game when Tyler Myers scored from eight yards out. Carie's extra point kick was good to conclude the scoring.
As usual, the opponent ran more plays than the Hearts, but the Hearts ended up with the most points. Paris ran 69 plays to 48 for Effingham and picked up 16 first down as compared to 15 for the Hearts. Effingham, though, picked up 409 total yards, 344 on the ground and 65 yards through the air to post the victory. Paris totaled 263 yards rushing and receiving.
Zach Miller, who is battling a bad toe, didn't let it show, gaining 178 yards rushing and scoring three touchdowns, and that was without playing in the second half. Trent Barnhart gained 71 yards on seven carries, Tyler Myers picked up 49 yards and a touchdown on five carries, Avery Brooks rushed six times for 24 yards, Billy Arndt carried twice for 12 yards, and Wolff gained 10 yards and a touchdown on six carries.
Wolff attempted just 12 passes and completed five of them for 65 yards and a touchdown. Carter Hayes caught three passes for 34 yards and a touchdown, Billy Arndt caught a 24-yard pass, and Marcus Robinson grabbed a seven-yard completion.
For Paris, quarterback Riley Spencer attempted 31 passes and completed 14 of them for a total of 162 yards with two interceptions. Hunter Morris led Paris in rushing, gaining 76 yards on 20 carries.
Michael Carie had a big game with six punts for 217 yards and six kickoffs for 324 yards. Matt Wohltman and Dylan Depoister grabbed interceptions.
On the tackle sheet, Travis Durbin led the Hearts with 16 stops including four solo tackles. Others totals: Drew Vasquez 9 including three solo stops, Blaine Koester 7 with one solo, Payton Bushue, Matt Wohltman, Noah Hagen, Brandon Loy and Wyatt Kahley 5 each with Wohltman's all solo stops, Bushue, Hagen and Loy each with a solo tackle, Billy Arndt, Joe Nieman and Khye Heuerman each with four tackles including two solo stops by Heuerman, Marcus Robinson and Trevor Murphy with three including one solo tackle for Robinson, Griffin Paige, Trent Barnhart, Evan Boggs, Alec Stevenson, Jordan Coleman, Quentin Cunningham and Noah Lohman with two each including two solos for Barnhart, one for Boggs, one for Stevenson and one for Cunningham, and one stop each for Grant Piggush and Dylan Depoister with each of those being solo tackles.
Mattoon won 56-29 over Salem to also improve to 3-0 in Apollo Conference setting up a clash for the top spot in the conference next Friday night. It will also be Senior Night and Real Men Wear Pink Night for 2013. Kickoff will be 7pm and a big crowd is expected. You can hear the action on 979XFM and www.979xfm.com.


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Jimquisition: You Should Be Mad at Diablo III's Always Online DRM
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But why do honest players have to suffer through shitty DRM for pirates? Should I go punch every pirate in the face so companies don't put shitty DRM?
Companies are the ones putting up the service if the service only inconveniences honest players and lets pirates run rampant, what's the point of the service? (I just read that some Diablo 3 players have had their money stolen)
Why can't the game have an offline mode or offline characters at least? A big part of the community wants to play alone offline in case the servers don't work. If indie companies can have offline modes or characters why can't AAA developer Blizzard do it.
I am not expecting the game to give me a BJ, (haven't bought the game) but I expect it to have the least amount of problems possible when I am playing it. So when the publisher is the one creating the problems and their services doesn't work at stopping pirates or hackers I just have to facepalm.
Well... your problem is the real money auction house. Rather than tweaking drop rates so people don't HAVE to spend three months grinding for a slightly better hammer, they decided to perpetuate people spending real money on it, and then force the always online model to protect that.
In fact, it is Blizzard trying to take the place of all the gold sellers that 'are ruining the game experience'.
I don't understand the need for a Real Money Auction House. I don't understand how a game developer, who is supposed to be passionate about creating a game experience, actively makes a single player game require extra money to play.
But then again, I don't understand why people would willingly hand over real cash for a game you can complete with normal drops... which you play on your own... or co-operatively...
Seriously, why is the auction house a good feature?
I'm more concerned with how mainstream crap the game became. I wanted D3 to be amazing, but all it is, is the epitome of mediocreness.
Path of Exile is far better, for numerous reasons.
But sure, the DRM is bad and that's part of why I stopped playing it within a week.
Shh... don't let them onto it.
We may get a single player game yet. If they start this online shit trend on consoles I will have to teach Blizzard how hot hell can get.
Why? Because the problem is with the player, not the games. Honest players have half a brain, and they can decide what they do all on their own. They aren't a slave to day one releases.
I don't condone violence, but yeah...
'Honest consumers don't exist here.' You are all held accountable if you think this is an honest inconvenience. Open your eyes! You know it to be true! Do you really think people who spend mass amounts of money want to hurt the people who give them mass amounts of money? [email protected]
It's so easy for the people (like you) to blame the ones who create what we want, instead of taking credit for ruining the things we want, that it makes me sick.
I get it, DRM is a failure when you consider the masses of nerds who can work around such things...
You win.
You are still (not you exactly, but the idea) fucking it all up for the rest of us.
If the shit head hacks didn't exist, we would have a more stable nerd economy. But noooooooooooo.... anyone with a handle on IP addressees thinks it's their fucking God given right to be entitled shit head. Fuck those people. Fuck them in the ass.... really hard.... so they bleed the money they forfeit. Let their ass be given up to a superior being who can regulate their shit head motives for the better... aka... let the people who make a thing, decide how to distribute a thing.
I'd love for all these hacker elite types to make something, then decide to give it away for free. You do realize you/they have the right, and the choice to do so, eh?
Who are you to decide for them?
Oh yeah, you (not you specifically, I'm talking about a group) do realize that you control and decide what you create, eh?
If I say it a million times, some kids still just refuse to get it....
You decide to sign your rights away.
You decide if your worth is the same as your commitments.
EDIT: Fun Fact = over 20,000 people are pirating games that aren't DRM titles, RIGHT NOW!!!!!
Fuck those people, and fuck their silly ideals. I don't get it. I won't get it. They are thieves. They are the reason DRM exists in other games.
I have no interest in playing Diablo III right off the bat, so there's that.
This is one of those times where I'm not even going to get the pirated version of it. I want nothing to do with playing the game.
The always online thing is to protect their online economy, something I do not give two shits about.
Honestly I don't care about the always online DRM. If you have a shitty internet connection you shouldn't have bought the game. It was announced way beforehand, so it's kind of your own fault for blowing your money on something you can't play. I'm not saying that you shouldn't complain. I'm just saying the "I paid good money for it!" argument doesn't really hold water because frankly you shouldn't have. You could have complained without paying for it or simply boycotted the game. The launch day problem is sort of valid, but I have limited pity for people with the free time to be staring at an error screen all day and crying about it.
Finally, I only ever play with friends so I would have to be online to begin with. Again, I'm not telling you not to complain. I'm merely asking that you don't tell me that I should be complaining, because frankly I don't give a crap and have perfectly valid reasons for not doing so.
Sorry Jim, but you're mostly wrong.
First and foremost, Online DRM and Server Management are not the same issue, and cannot be used interchangeably. The servers should have been handled better, but once they knew the issues were going to occur they warned [b]EVERYONE[/B] and well. Could have and should have been done better, but you are massively overreacting. Not the game community in general (they might be, but I'm only concerned with you in this post) - you specifically Jim
Second, if a game makes clear that it will have Online DRM, how is it wrong for them to sell it. Could they design around it, and not include it? Sure. But they could do the same with games that require DX11 - if someone buys something that their gaming rig is not capable of supporting, after the requirements have been announced, that is their own goddamn fault.
So glad I wasn't eating when watching this. In the future saying the word doesn't need the pictures of shit to get your point across. It would be funnier to say shit and put pictures rainbows instead.
While he had a lot on his plate, I'm surprised Jim didn't bring up that even with good online support, players don't really own the game they paid over $60 for. Since online support won't last forever, they're effectively just paying for the privilege of renting it. I can play my old PS 1 copy of Diablo whenever I want but the current copies of Diablo 3 won't be much more than glorified coasters or bits of data when Blizzard comes out with Diablo 4.
Personally, I have no reason to complain. I'm blessed with a mostly stable internet connect so the rare lag issues are not enough to ruin my enjoyment of the game. Did it kind of suck that I wasn't able to play on launch day? Yeah, but having been around for several MMORPG launch days I didn't expect much.
I do feel sorry for those without stable internet connections, though. Not because you paid money for it and can't play it (you should have known it requires an internet connection to play), but because you're missing out on a really fun game. And I think you do have every right to complain about that.
You could fix it so that some characters are solo characters and others are online characters, but I also kind of like the randomness of jumping in on any game, so I'm on the fence.
The only thing I fear is the inevitable server shut down some several years into the future. I enjoy playing old games; what if I want to pick D3 up again some eons in the future? Am I SOL? In that event, I certainly will complain.
Since in their other games (e.g. WoW) illegal real money services run rampant and there's nothing they can really do to stomp all the ants, Blizzard has decided to cut out the middleman. Presumably there will be no gold/item sellers because that service is already in the game. This way, they're making all that money that would otherwise go to third parties, and they're making their playerbase safer because usually those third party deals are a one-way ticket to getting your account hacked. Three birds with one stone.
People who spend their time grinding for the best items will find themselves with a new and legitimate way to make money. Blizzard makes more money. It's also entirely optional. You can completely beat the game without resorting to the RMAH.
And? If someone pays for a preorder, or buys a game on day one, they should get to play the game on day one. I don't care if it's really hard to keep up with demand, or if those nasty pirates make life so much rougher for a poor little billion dollar multinational company, I paid the money to play it today, I get to play it today. End of story.
Bullshit. I will not be held accountable for the choices of another person whose actions are outside of my control. If people can leave a grocery store without getting frisked, then I can play a game I bought without being accused of theft.
Intention is not a shield against incompetence. They may not mean to inconvenience honest consumers, but they do.
Damn skippy I'll blame Blizzard for this. They have every ability, every resource at their disposal to deal with these issues ahead of time and yet they consistently fail to do so. The first time something like this happened, I might be tempted to let it go simply because a group of people are dealing with a new problem, but this isn't the first time.
If a creator creates a faulty invention, is it the fault of the tools he used, the materials he incorporated, the hands that created the invention, or the people he wants to sell it to? I have a very hard time accepting the former of the options.
Except you're not. You're using the same flawed circular logic almost EVERY Diablo 3 defender has been using.
"Diablo 3 requires you to be online to play, which makes it a multi-player game. And, since it's a multi-player game, you need to be online to play it."
I mean, really? Really?! Just stop. Just.....stop. It's getting embarrassing at this point. If all of you out there defending this bullshit can't come up with a legitimate reason why Diablo 3 is the way it is, then stop making up excuses and lies. Just admit you're such an avid fan that you willingly turn a blind eye to all of the crap surrounding the game. Then we can all finally just talk about the game itself, the good and the bad parts, and not the shitty service/DRM.
Ok, sorry if I sounded hostile, (but you do sound hostile towards me) it wasn't my intention. I am not necessarily blaming Blizzard for making good games or for trying to protect from being pirated, I just think the methods they are using aren't helping stop pirates and in some cases can increase piracy. (Just as Ubisoft on that one)
So pirates are why we can't have Nice Things, but companies aren't wising up that sometimes they are unwittingly creating pirates.
I just want to play good games without a hassle and its terrible that this industry is turning into a Us and Them fight, especially since I want to develop game myself.
Sorry, but here is where the argument fails and becomes your problem:
EVERYONE knew this was the model they were going with even before they put a demo out, right from the bat they said "The game is like this, this is the product we're selling."
And everyone still bought the game. Most pre-ordered game of all time. People bought the game, payed for i, before it launched. Did Blizzard even once promised smooth perfect servers from day one? Does ANYBODY who understand a bit about online games and MMO-Like games and Huge releases that require internet not know that there are server problems on the first week or so EVERY SINGLE TIME? Why did you expect it to be different when nobody ever promised you it would?
Now, see... it's not that i Defend Blizzard. I don't. I didn't bought Diablo 3 because of that. Because i was uncertain about this model and how it would effect me enjoyment of a Premium priced game... i WANT to play the game, it looks awesome... but i made it not my problem.
While, on the other hand... every single one who bought and complained and praised at the same time is at fault here. You don't like these DRM practices? You don't think this is fair to the gamer? Then stop bullshitting your way into metacritic to "give the developer a piece of my mind".
They don't care about your mind... they already have the piece of you they want. You GAVE it to them of your own free will... your money.
When gamers learn to protest with their wallets and NOT FRIGGIN BUYING games that have features or policies they don't want, causing a direct dent into the developers bottom line, this is not going to change. Ever.
Know why? Because you can bitch and whine all you want, to the company, to the developer... you bought it. That means you want it. That means you are Ok with what was said about the game and still wants it.
So there you have it. You can totally blame Blizzard for this... but they are second tier on this Blame game. First and center is the gamers who bought the game knowing of how it was being setup and just "assuming" Blizzard is going to give them a perfect server they never promised AFTER you payed them.
I really . . . I'm torn. Because I completely agree . . . but I also got to see the game in person the other day and I just. I want to play it so bad. Diablo 2 was a big part of my development as a gamer and D3 looks so fun . . . but I have principles. So, I find myself asking how much of a difference I, personally, am making in this case. I just want them to stop this stupid shit. I used to be in love with Blizzard. Now, every time I hear some new story about them, I feel myself getting a little more cynical.
Honestly, I've only seen criticism of Diablo 3's DRM. Can someone link me to the supposed defensive pundits?
Here's the thing, though: It's not an MMO. Like . . . MMO's HAVE to be online. That's the whole point. Diablo doesn't, though. Like . . . it didn't have to in the past and it doesn't right now. There's really no reason that you should HAVE to be online, and the fact that they arbitrarily set it up like that makes people feel cheated when it doesn't work. You're right. Most people knowingly bought the game anyway. That doesn't make what Blizzard did to it (and the fact that they apparently didn't anticipate the massive amount of people jumping on their servers) any less erfed up.
It also doesn't make it okay that they're not able to play a game that they payed good money for. Like. It's pretty simple. If you pay for a service, the person providing the service is legally obligated to give it to you unless you break the contract somehow.
Let's go with another example. I pay you to move my furniture. There's a risk that you could drop my furniture or otherwise fuck it up. I'm aware of this. Now let's say that you didn't secure my furniture properly in your truck. On the way, lamps fall over and valuables break. The fact that I was aware that it was a risk doesn't automatically mean you're no longer at fault, and it doesn't mean that I'm just shit out of luck and I don't get to have my stuff anymore.
I paid you to move my furniture. You, in your (hypothetical) ineptitude, decided to do it in the worst way possible, and, as a result, I did not receive the service that I payed for. I deserve a refund. Because I paid you money and did not get what I was promised. It's not a perfect analogy, but you get the point.
You buy Diablo 3, you should be expected to be allowed to play it. If Blizzard's servers are down, you cannot play the game and you are being cheated out of the service that you payed for. Because Blizzard did not do what they could to hold up their end of the bargain.
And, like. Even if I accepted your argument as-is, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't bitch and moan as loudly as possible. If you're unsatisfied with a service you paid for (for any reason), you should notify the management. Period.
Also, I'm sure there are plenty of people who bought the game, but just didn't know that this was a risk, for one reason or another. You can say all you like that it's their fault for being ignorant or whatever, but that doesn't make it any less of a douchetastic move on Blizzard's part.
Q1 ANSWER: Because tens of thousands of people continue to pirate.
Q2 ANSWER: Yes, Punch them in the face, and kick them in the balls. They are the ones who continue to make big business punish you.
Herp de fucking derp.... if they (pirates) didn't exist, you wouldn't be punished. Life is kinda simple that way, eh?
It's too late to think this way tho. We have to come up with a pill... for the world... that gives worms...
I think the only thing worse than Sterling's humor is his delivery, but sometimes I think he's the last sane person who has something like a voice in the game industry. He doesn't suck corporate dong or shit all over gamers like MovieBob.
So thank you Mr. Sterling. Thank you for having the balls to be right.
Let me add to the sane man (men[s]{womens) argument here and ask all y'all D3 defenders this:
If D3 HAS to always have an internet connection, then why doesn't Torchlight 2?
Why does Torchlight 2, which is as you D3 fanboys say an 'online multiplayer game", not need to be always connected to the internet for people to play together?
Exactly. You got screwed by ActiBlizz, and now you're all just flailing around, grasping at straws trying to justify losing 60 USD on a mediocre game with terrible DRM.
I agree with all the ideas except the word whine. Its very important that you DON'T WHINE. You SHOULD COMPLAIN and CRITICIZE but DON'T WHINE. Whining implies an impotent tantrum that does nothing but annoy other people who can't do anything about it anyways.
That's irrelevant to the situation because a game developer can do whatever the hell it wants. If they WANT their single player game to have online all the time, they can totally do it. Doesn't even have to justify or explain a damn thing "we want it, this fits with out vision" Done. End of talk.
But here is the thing... you don't have to buy it.
They were up front about it "out game needs to be fully online at all times", people made the same call you did back then "but it doesn't have to be... it's stupid to make it so" and yet... most pre ordered game of all time.
The message Blizzard got from this? It's not necessary maybe, but it doesn't stop people from buying it, and we think it will help US. so we're doing it like this.
And their next game will also do it... and the next one... and then another company with big titles will also start doing it, and then these companies will do the same with their smaller titles and new IP's because by then it will be "that's just how it is nowadays"... and there we have. Guilty in the consumer.
So, if I interpret that sentence correctly, am I to assume that you're implying that Blizzard/Activision cares more for the money than it does for its consumers? Cuz yeah, it's never been more apparent that's the case.
Captcha: one hit wonder. More like one hit blunder, there Captcha.
Thaaaat is an absolutely terrible argument.
Does the fact that some people (pirates) shit in the punch bowl make it at all acceptable to punish anyone (other PC users who may or may not pirate) who is even tangentially related to them? I think not.
You're basically saying that EVERYONE is guilty of pirating, so EVERYONE should have to pay for it, but that's patently false. Only SOME people are to blame for pirating, and the only people who pay for the game clearly did not pirate it and, as such, should not be punished because of pirates.
By your logic, it would be entirely acceptable for me to refuse to serve people with hats (PC users as a whole) in my coffee shop just because a person wearing a hat mugged me a few weeks ago and the hat wearers should have to reap what they've sown. The fact that the mugger wears hats (plays PC games) is not at all indicative of the morality of others who share his love of hats.
Then, you go on to say that it's somehow the PC community's duty to regulate piracy. It's not. It's not even Blizzard's job. It's the government's. And they're kind of terrible at it, from what I can tell.
As soon as I heard that Diablo 3 would require a constant on-line connection, I knew I would not be purchasing the game. After talking to some of my heart-broken students who couldn't connect to the server to play a game that they legitimately purchased, my decision was reaffirmed. With all these great games out there, I have neither the time nor the patience to wait around trying to connect to a server.
For the record, "always on-line" = DRM. It may not be the intent, but it is the impact.
I will continue scorning smug Diablo 3 players talking shit about people who opt for Path of Exile or Torchlight 2. A pox on them for their unrepentant hubris.
George Takei was a victim of a world war, and forced into internment camps. PC gamers should never be compared the greatest/most gay Captain Starfleet ever gave a ship to.
Sulu suffered for our sins.
PC gamers suffer for their sins.
I didn't say Blizzard had no right to do it. I said it was messed up. What I meant is that it's bad business practice. It's bad business practice to screw over your consumers in order to make an extra buck on a product that was already slated to break records. It's greedy, it's douchey and it's terrible. People have a right to be upset. I agree that they should boycott, but the fact that they didn't doesn't just suddenly make everything their faults. They didn't cause the problem to begin with, Blizzard did.
Touché. I do admire Mr. Takei.
I admire Brad too.
It takes a tough cookie to deal with such a savvy ninja ; )
Path of Exile is still in beta too =)
Dunno why I felt the need to point it out, but I did.
...I LOVE PoE.
OK I do feel that the "cheater" problem with single player games which cannot be transfered to multiplayer... yeah... non issue.
You shouldn't need to be online to play on single player... you could be connected however it's not essential. However needing to be connected when playing online.. I think that is far, however I also think they are fucking morons for not being able to count... we have XXX servers and XXXXXXXXX people and if X server can only handle XXX people... we may have a lack of servers...
Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong Jim.
You are wrong because no one forced games to go out and buy this game. You are wrong because this was long announced before the game released, people knew this was the way it was going to be. So they knew this, dropped 60 bucks, and now whine because they bought a product without doing the research, without remembering what's been said about the game since it was announced... that is ONLINE ONLY. if you don't want ONLINE ONLY don't buy it. The entitled pricks are the ones who buy it and expect something they were told that they WERE NOT going to get.
Edit: I've had it since beta, I installed it before it went live, i was in and playing within an hour of release and you know what. i was happy that I could log in and play with other people who weren't hackers, dupers, assholes, farmers etc. I was happy that I can play in a random group with random people and know that they got their gear legitimately. I'm happy with my purchase, i'm happy with the game and I like always on DRM. I like support from one of the greatest developers of all time.
Complaining about D3 is fine and complaining about server issues is fine, but Blizzard doesn't owe us any more than they are providing. We pay for a license to play, but we're not guaranteed 100% availability - that's impossible to provide, even for something like Google. Launches have problems, and the 24 hours of hell that was May 15 was a reasonable failure. Approximately half of the first 24 hours the game was available to play, and in the first week it's been available roughly 80-90% of the time. There is some lag and other issues, but the game's new. If you bought the game, you have years to play it without any additional cost. If you can't handle launch problems, then simply buy the game a week or two after launch.
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Moms Bang Teens Presents Madison Chandler
The sexy Madison Chandler is not getting fulfilled by Jake. The girl's friend advises expert help. The happy couple is referred to Brandi, a sexual intercourse consultant, whom is experienced in newer couples. Jake is not so sure concerning the experience in the beginning, but when this guy realizes he is going to possibly be intimately catered to by two attractive blonde babes he gives in. The gorgeous Brandi recognizes just what has to be done and takes command over the problem immediately. The woman tells Jake to sit down and enjoy how she treats Madison Chandler.


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Copyright doesn't just protect ownership over a particular physical arrangement and embodiment of information (ex: a chocolate cake), but instead protects ownership over any particular arrangement with the same information (ex: any chocolate cake made with the same recipe). So, it is basically granting monopoly control over who can use the information.Sylvester wrote: Hello. I thought I would try to clarify some misconceptions about copyrights. Copyright laws do not protect raw information or data per se, but the physical arrangement and embodiment of that data, eg literary expression, art works, translations etc etc. Subject to certain qualifiers, copyright laws will endow the holder of the copyright (typically the writer/artist or his usual assignee the publisher) with a fixed term monopoly to exclude the rest of the world from exploiting the copyright work. European copyright laws may tag on additional non-economic copyrights that survive even after all copyrights are assigned by the author.
Fair Use is a pretty narrow usage, if that's what you're getting at. They have a monopoly in the sense that they have exclusive control over such information, with few exceptions. Nobody else can use the same information for commercial purposes, unless they heavily modify it in some way that is considered beneficial to the arts & sciences.Sylvester wrote: Most copyright systems do not give the copyright owner an absolute monopoly over his/her/its work. "Infringement" of a copyright is typically founded on a legal test of "reproduction of a substantial part of the work" (at least in the English-influenced systems). Unless someone is thinking of Xeroxing an entire copy of the MLD published by Wisdom, how often will a Dhamma-practitioner actually face a kusala/akusala dilemma when copying portions of a Dhamma text?
I am not "electing" to make it sound that way. That's what it says: Adinnādānā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.Sylvester wrote: I am not sure if I agree with the formulation of the 1st issue above, ie do copyright infringers have a right to own copies, based on the test of whether copyright infringement is theft. If you read "theft" very restrictively to the sense of the feudal tort of "conversion", then the answer must probably be no. My question is - why elect to limit the discourse to the purloining of "physical" articles?
The notion of "taking" and "giving" only applies to material objects; you can't take or give information in the same way. Information is free, non-localized, precedes the mind that cognizes it, and infinitely proliferates throughout all minds; it cannot be "used up". And although copyrights and patents can encourage ingenuity, generally speaking, the proliferation of information benefits the world more than the profit of the creator, hence the reason copyrights are limited in the first place -- limited to less than a lifetime when they were first established, but now lasting far more than a lifetime in America and Europe, because large businesses have lobbied governments to make it that way.
Any form of fraud would still necessarily involve appropriation of physical goods from one party to another, which must be returned. Whether it's a pyramid scheme, or whatever else, the fraudster is attempting to gain money or other items from a potential victim. With violation of copyright, a person thousands of miles away can simply publish a story with a character called "Mickey Mouse" in it -- using their own materials, paid for by themselves, no materials belonging to Disney, and putting in a considerable amount of work (possibly comparable to the work of the original creator), and yet, despite this, it is strangely regarded as a form of theft.Sylvester wrote: If the 2nd Precept is to be construed so restrictively as to mean a training against misappropriation of physical items, that leaves open a huge loop-hole for Buddhists to merrily commit all kinds of fraud without ever touching the medium of exchange, eg I could then embark on a cheating spree based on derivatives and other exotic financial products, far removed from the underlying commodity.
Furthermore, as I said, although the second precept doesn't apply to intellectual property, that doesn't necessarily imply the violation of copyright is necessarily skillful. The piracy of music, movies, software, pornography, etc., is certainly motivated by greed.
But the five precepts, by the way, do not cover all morality: how could they possibly delineate every conceivable skillful and unskillful behavior there is? Any act done with craving or sensual desire is unskilllful, regardless of whether it's a precept or not... which includes things that aren't in the precepts, like gambling or laziness. The belief that because something is not a precept means it's okay is a terrible misinterpretation of what the precepts are for.


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This year my New Years Resolution is to intensely study figure drawing. I'm taking a class, I'm going to life drawing marathons. I'm drawing mostly in charcoal for basic training.
In a typical life drawing session, there will be a live model who poses for various lengths of time. Starting with two minute poses, there's only enough time to "get the gesture," to figure out where the major parts of the body are, and how big. Then the five minute poses, in which light and dark come out, and some notion of shape, if you're lucky. With the ten and tweny minute poses, drawing gets a little more comfortable, but don't get lazy, start with the gesture, then block in the lights and darks, then finally go for detail.
In this show I've got several sections, organized by the medium that the drawings are in:
All the drawings in the Digital pages are drawn entirely on the computer, from live models. I didn't do any drawings fromphotographs or other sketches. What I did was to bring a powerbook with a drawing tablet to my life drawing sessions.
What I intend to do here is to digitize some of my charcoal figure drawings, but since I haven't gotten around to it yet, I'll throw in some very early self protraits which just happen to be in charcoal.
Later in the year I started bringing my easel to the sessions and doing drawings (paintings, now) in acrylic on paper. I usually showed up for the sessions late, so was only doing 20 and 30 minute poses. Still, this is fast for painting.
Simran Singh Gleason
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An alternate juror in the Michael Jackson wrongful death trial has been dismissed from the panel because of financial hardship.
The man, alternate juror No. 6, had told Judge Yvette Palazuelos that he was moving to Atlanta, where he had bought a house. He said he would be paying rent in Southern California and house payments in Georgia starting next month. He told the judge he had thought the trial would be finished by mid-July, which does not appear to be the case.
"He has moved," Palazuelos told the remaining jurors Thursday morning, which marked the 33rd day of the trial. "Along with moving came some financial hardships."
Besides the 12 seated jurors, five alternates remain.
Harvard University sleep expert Dr. Charles Czeisler has been testifying Thursday.
The lawsuit was brought by Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson, and his three children. They charge that concert promoter and producer AEG Live hired and controlled Dr. Conrad Murray, who gave the singer a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol. AEG says Murray worked for Jackson and that any payments the company was supposed to make to the doctor were advances to the pop star.


text:
Beginning with Linux Kernel 2.6, this functionality has been incorporated into the kernel in a safe manner for all supported processors. Try using powertweak for flexibility, or the automatic daemon cpufreqd instead..
The k6mult utility sets the CPU multiplier factor on AMD K6-III+ and K6-2+ processors featuring AMD PowerNow(tm).
The CPU clock speed is determined by multiplying this factor by the Front Side Bus (FSB) speed. You should use the k6mult utility if you want to increase the multiplier factor after boot to overcome boot-time CPU speed limitations in some BIOSs that do not recognize the K6-III+, or to lower the CPU speed after boot to save power.
k6mult comes with a command-line program of the same name to set the CPU multiplier factor immediately, and a boot-time service to set the parameter from a config file (/etc/k6mult.conf).
There are many other "tweaks" available for other processors, motherboard, and chipsets. If you have a need to tweak these other settings, or if you have a CPU other than the K6-III+, you should use PowerTweak instead of k6mult.
Most users should need only this file:
Installable file for RedHat Linux 7.1 k6mult-0.1-1.i586.rpm
Look here for source and other associated files.
Download and install the k6mult-0.1-1.i586.rpm RPM.
Test your desired value by becoming root, and running
/usr/local/sbin/k6mult with the desired CPU clock
multiplier as argument. Edit
/etc/k6mult.conf to set
the desired multiplier.
If you set the value too high without testing it, and your CPU
freezes once you reboot, restart and type
linux 1 and
/etc/k6mult.conf file again. (The k6mult starts
running at level 2.)
If you're having trouble following the above installation instructions, try these detailed installation instructions.
To uninstall k6mult, type the following:
$ su Password: # rpm -e k6mult
k6mult is available under GPL 2.0.
For more information on running and tuning Linux on the K6-III+/K6-2+, see JGott's Linux on the K6-2+/K6-III+ page. (Note that if you are using XFree86 4.0, it may do the
/proc/mtrr write-combining for your video card automatically, but it's worth checking.)


text:
Explain Yourself
19-03-2010, 08:34 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2010 09:14 AM by Stark Raving.)
RE: Explain Yourself
(19-03-2010 06:15 AM)jaronm90 Wrote:(17-03-2010 10:54 AM)Stark Raving Wrote: Signature: It just makes sense dammit!
I have always wanted to know at what point the quote was altered, but Carl Sagan has used it both ways. At some point he used the reverse because it was also good logic. If I see no footprints in the newly fallen snow, it is evidence that noone has walked through the field today. The lack of evidence is what tells me that. It does not, however, tell me noone has walked through the field yesterday, since the newly fallen snow could simply be covering the footprints in the soil.
To me, what matters is when you LOOK for the evidence. The scientist will move the snow, or wait for it to melt. Once you start to actively search, and still find no evidence, that is when absence is evidence. I apply this to god. I believe a thinking atheist searches for god, and that is why s/he knows there is not one. Lack of real evidence.
In the end, even if the quote isn't what Sagan said, it's still applicable. Heck, I get stuff wrong all the time. I'm ok with it! LOL
Ugh, read my post and realized I was unclear......
What I wrote is simply a way to argue both sides. Sorry, my thoughts tend to get away with me and I forget to mention important information. LOL
What I didn't mention is that I am pretty sure that adding the "not" is the actual misquote, but since I haven't found the proof yet, I thought I would explain why it doesn't really matter. Truth be told, my quote is in fact more accurate than saying absence is not evidence, but thats just how I see it. I'll do some research though, and come back to it........I know I've seen this argument somewhere before.
So many cats, so few good recipes.
RE: Explain Yourself
Not proof that it is a misquote either way, but an interesting read. It also raises the point about WHO said it. Looks like we may have both been wrong about that one.
So many cats, so few good recipes.
RE: Explain Yourself
(19-03-2010 08:34 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:(19-03-2010 06:15 AM)jaronm90 Wrote:(17-03-2010 10:54 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's in Pale Blue Dot that Sagan says this quote and uses it in an statement concluding (essentially): since we haven't found any evidence of aliens yet that doesn't mean they don't exist.
I did a quick Google search and found a couple quote indexes.
Link 2
But I also came across this page which might support the context you were trying to explain in the form of a logic proof.
Link 3
This is more analytical than the context Carl was using the quote for when I first heard it. I agree that without proof of something one can logically and correctly state that they have not found evidence for that which they were looking for and deduce that it doesn't exist, but, that is working under the assumption that anywhere one can look for evidence, one has, and still found no proof, making it logical to conclude it doesn't exist. Sagan was stating that: though we have looked and still found no evidence, we have not looked everywhere and it would be too soon to deduce nonexistence (in reference to extraterrestrial intelligence).
Here's another link with the quote in it along with his reason for saying it and how it applies to his theological perspective.
Link 4
I'm almost 100% sure the lack of "not" in the quote would imply the opposite of how Carl viewed the world, with a fair balance of open-mindedness and skepticism. If you can find a link to prove otherwise, i.e. that Carl said it without the "not", I would quickly rescind my position. I think it's clear we were operating under different conditions for our understanding of the quote.
Before I posted this I found one more link which puts this quote in Sagan's Demon Haunted World as well, I wasn't 100% on if I was correctly remembering this being in here until this refreshed my memory.
Link 5
(19-03-2010 10:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote: Not proof that it is a misquote either way, but an interesting read. It also raises the point about WHO said it. Looks like we may have both been wrong about that one.
Saw this after I posted the other.
Hahahaha... Rumsfeld. That guy is a blabbering moron in my opinion. But I was never putting forward that I believed Sagan was the first to coin the quote, only that he's where I first heard it from (while reading Pale Blue Dot) and that there was a "not" in it.
RE: Explain Yourself
I am sure we can agree that the interesting part of the discussion is not where the quote origionated, but whether one or the other holds more water. Thanks for sparking the discussion! I am going to start a thread about it, just so we don't completely hijack this one! lol.
Hope to continue this...
So many cats, so few good recipes.
RE: Explain Yourself
USERNAME: I love platypuses. Or is it platypii? No idea, but they're damned cool animals. Also: poison claw of DEATH!
AVATAR: Just a cool picture of a platypus I found once.
TITLE: From the kid's show "Phineas and Ferb", their mild-mannered pet platypus is, by night, a brave secret agent called Agent P. His theme song features the line: "He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action."
QUOTE: I say this all the time, because it's true. There are secularists, humanists, freethinkers and such running around southern Louisiana, but they are few and far between.
RE: Explain Yourself
USERNAME: I always wanted that username and this is the first time it wasn't already taken. When I heard of the aquamarine gemstone I liked the way it sounds and since my real name is Marina, I immediately adopted it
AVATAR: I'm an anime addict and this girl kinda goes with the username because of her haircolor xD
TITLE: that's how I see myself (PS ran out of ideas)
SIGNATURE: I love the rain...that's all I have to say
RE: Explain Yourself
avatar - Polaroid picture I took.
username - Favorite Harlan Ellison book (title).
custom title - One of my favorite label "warnings".
signature - One of my favorite authors.
RE: Explain Yourself
Profile change, so here we go again.
My new avatar is Gamal from the webcomic "Men In Hats", which is about six men in an unnamed desert who talk and occasionally eat sandwiches. Gamal is the only sort-of normal man there, and serves as the voice of reason in the series. I considered making Amar, the sadistic and hilarious dude in the top hat, my avatar, but I couldn't find an expression that was as funny as Gamal's.
My title is a (fairly obvious) reference to a line from "Sympathy For the Devil" by the Rolling Stones. The opening verse goes like this, in case you haven't heard it:
Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith
I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Mad damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you is
The nature of my game
Of course, it's being sung by the devil, so... yeah. Figured it was appropriate.
And my new signature is from The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents, which is one of my favorite Terry Pratchett books.
----------SPOILER! If you want to read the book without knowing how it ends, stop here------------
A talking cat (Maurice) and some talking rats (the educated rodents) move into a small town looking for their fortunes, but discover that the town is in danger from a mysterious being named "Spider". Spider, as it turns out, is a Rat King - a group of rats whose tails were tied together by rat catchers for fun - consisting of eight individual rats. Eventually, Dangerous Beans, the most intelligent of the rats, confronts Spider in the sewers underneath the city. The full scene goes like this:
Quote:'I want to see who I am talking to,' said Dangerous Beans, firmly.
I had to cut a bit out of the speech, of course - stupid character limits - but I still think it's very powerful writing.
"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
RE: Explain Yourself
Bump for the newbies. EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!
Oh, my current avatar is H. P. Lovecraft, my title shows my love of games of all types, and my signature is another Terry Pratchett quote.
"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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Drug information provided by: Micromedex
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This medicine is available only with your doctor's prescription.
This product is available in the following dosage forms:
In deciding to use a medicine, the risks of taking the medicine must be weighed against the good it will do. This is a decision you and your doctor will make. For this medicine, the following should be considered:
Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic reaction to this medicine or any other medicines. Also tell your health care professional if you have any other types of allergies, such as to foods, dyes, preservatives, or animals. For non-prescription products, read the label or package ingredients carefully.
Appropriate studies performed to date have not demonstrated pediatric-specific problems that would limit the usefulness of remifentanil in children when given with an anesthetic before or during an operation. However, safety and efficacy have not been established in children for the relief of pain after surgery.
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There are no adequate studies in women for determining infant risk when using this medication during breastfeeding. Weigh the potential benefits against the potential risks before taking this medication while breastfeeding.
Although certain medicines should not be used together at all, in other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to change the dose, or other precautions may be necessary. When you are receiving this medicine, it is especially important that your healthcare professional know if you are taking any of the medicines listed below. The following interactions have been selected on the basis of their potential significance and are not necessarily all-inclusive.
Using this medicine with any of the following medicines is not recommended. Your doctor may decide not to treat you with this medication or change some of the other medicines you take.
Using this medicine with any of the following medicines is usually not recommended, but may be required in some cases. If both medicines are prescribed together, your doctor may change the dose or how often you use one or both of the medicines.
Certain medicines should not be used at or around the time of eating food or eating certain types of food since interactions may occur. Using alcohol or tobacco with certain medicines may also cause interactions to occur. Discuss with your healthcare professional the use of your medicine with food, alcohol, or tobacco.
The presence of other medical problems may affect the use of this medicine. Make sure you tell your doctor if you have any other medical problems, especially:
A nurse or other trained health professional will give you this medicine in a hospital. This medicine is given through a needle placed in one of your veins.
It is very important that your doctor check your progress closely while you are receiving this medicine to see if it is working properly and to allow for a change in the dose.
This medicine will add to the effects of alcohol and other CNS depressants (medicines that make you drowsy or less alert). Some examples of CNS depressants are antihistamines or medicine for hay fever, other allergies, or colds; sedatives, tranquilizers, or sleeping medicine; prescription pain medicine or narcotics; barbiturates or medicine for seizures; muscle relaxants; or other anesthetics, including some dental anesthetics. Check with your medical doctor or dentist before taking any of the above while you are receiving this medicine.
Check with your doctor right away if you have bluish lips or skin; chest pain; difficulty with breathing; a fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse; shortness of breath; or muscle stiffness after receiving this medicine.
Dizziness, lightheadedness, or fainting may occur with this medicine, especially when you get up from a lying or sitting position suddenly. Getting up slowly may help, but if the problem continues or gets worse, check with your doctor.
This medicine may cause constipation. This is more common if you use it for a long time. Ask your doctor if you should also use a laxative to prevent and treat constipation.
Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.
Check with your doctor or nurse immediately if any of the following side effects occur:
Some side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:
Other side effects not listed may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your healthcare professional.
Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to the FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.
Portions of this document last updated: March 01, 2017
Original article: http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/remifentanil-intravenous-route/description/drg-20073019
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Green Bean Summer Salad
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Author Notes: My mom has always been the best and making great summer salads and inspiring me to create them as well. This is a take on one of my favorite green bean salads from childhood. - MadisonMayberry —MadisonMayberry
Food52 Review: MadisonMayberry's super delicious salad is very simple and perfect for a picnic. The blanched beans are perfectly cooked and well matched with the crunchy toasted nuts and the punch of the raw onions. A final sprinkling of dill is the perfect touch for summer. - Stephanie —The Editors
Serves: 6-8
cup chopped pecans
1 1/2
pounds green beans, trimmed
medium onion, chopped
cup olive oil
Juice from 1/2 a lemon
teaspoon fresh dill
1 1/2
teaspoons kosher salt
teaspoon black pepper
- *Preheat oven to 350*F.
- *Place pecans on a baking pan or oven-going baking dish and toast in the oven for 5 minutes. Remove from oven and cool slightly. Set aside.
- *Place green beans in a large saucepan and add enough water to come about halfway up the green beans. Bring to boiling and cook 5 minutes, or until green beans are crisp-tender, meaning they still have some crunch to them, but are pleasantly tender. Drain beans and place in a large bowl.
- *Add the toasted pecans and chopped onions to the bowl. *In a small bowl, combine the olive oil, lemon juice, dill, salt, and pepper.
- *Drizzle the olive oil mixture over the green beans and toss to coat. Serve immediately at room temperature, or refrigerate up to a day and serve chilled.
- This recipe is a Community Pick!
- This recipe was entered in the contest for Your Best String Bean Salad
More Great Recipes:
Salad|Vegetable|Bean|Make Ahead|Summer|Vegetarian|Side


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Kono Octopus Kite Kit 10 Pack
Designed by kite artist Greg Kono, this simple-t0-construct kite flies well in light to medium winds. The "critter" gives students good practice in cutting and good surface area to decorate! Use the large universe of octopi for decoration (choose from 300 species) or decorate from the child's own imagination. Prinetd on 11" x 17" bond paper, the kit contains sails, tails, bamboo spars, string on a winder. You supply scissors and tape.
Recommended Age: 2nd grade and older, good for integrating with primary level science units.
Decorations: The simplest method would be to use marker pens, but substituting the bond paper for more interesting light weight paper with color or patterns would work. Note: do not increase the weight of the paper, matching the weight of the bond paper supplied is critical in the flight of this kite.
Note: Sold only in 10 packs.
Ideal wind conditions for this kite: Light (a flag on a pole is gently moving, not fluttering) to Medium (a flag on a pole is steadily moving, fluttering in the wind).


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Youth Ministry: What's Gone Wrong?
Youth Ministry specialists are noticing that as technology accelerates, spiritual apathy among young people is increasing. Many teens are biblically illiterate, bored, and find the church to be irrelevant. Parents are frustrated. Youth leaders are burned out. And high school and college students — if they ever attended — are leaving the church by the droves. What on earth has gone wrong?
Dr. David Olshine, director of the Youth Ministry, Family and Culture program at Columbia International University explores what needs to change and offers practical advice to youth ministry leaders in his new book, "Youth Ministry: What's Gone Wrong?"
Olshine is the author and co-author of 19 books and is a regular contributor to Youth Worker Journal. He is ordained in the United Methodist Church and has served for over 30 years as a youth pastor and lead pastor of a college-town church. He is also the co-founder of Youth Ministry Coaches, an organization that helps the church strategize for youth ministry (youthmincoaches.com).
"Youth Ministry: What's Gone Wrong" is published by Abingdon Press and will be released in October. It's available for pre-order at Barnes & Noble:


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On the afternoon of May 17, 2017, Premier Li Keqiang met at the Great Hall of the People with President Mauricio Macri of Argentina, who was in China for a state visit and the attendance at the Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation.
Li Keqiang expressed that both countries have always been steadily moving forward since the establishment of diplomatic relations 45 years ago. President Xi Jinping has met with Mr. President several times, vigorously promoting the development of bilateral relations. China is willing to, together with Argentina, adhere to mutual respect and equal treatment, continuously enhance political mutual trust, intensify mutually beneficial cooperation, and strengthen people-to-people and cultural exchanges, so as to expand common interests and boost common development.
Li Keqiang pointed out that as both emerging market economies, China and Argentina share broad prospects for cooperation. The Chinese side is ready to work with Argentina to expand the opening up of each other's market, promote balanced development of bilateral trade, and jointly facilitate trade and investment liberalization and facilitation. Both countries should enhance cooperation in infrastructure construction and production capacity, as well as deepen cooperation in such areas as energy, mining, agriculture, finance, middle and small-sized enterprises, in a bid to achieve mutual benefit and win-win results.
Li Keqiang stressed that China supports the economic integration in Latin-America, and is willing to make joint efforts with all countries in Latin America including Argentina, boost the continuous development of China-Latin America relations and also contribute to regional and world peace, stability and development.
Mauricio Macri expressed that the development of bilateral comprehensive strategic partnership is of great significance to Argentina. Both economies are highly complementary to each other and mutually beneficial cooperation enjoys huge potential. Argentina stands ready to speed up the pace of cooperation, enhance cooperation in such areas as infrastructure construction, agricultural products, nuclear power, finance and tourism and promote balanced growth of trade with China, so as to achieve common development. Argentina welcomes Chinese enterprises to invest in the country and is willing to actively advance the economic and trade cooperation in various forms between the Common Market of the South (Mercosur) and China, in a bid to promote the in-depth development of the overall relations between Latin America and China.


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A father sitting in his wheelchair fired a single, lethal shot at his 43-year-old son during a Friday evening argument, according to Lakeland police officers.
LAKELAND | A father sitting in his wheelchair fired a single, lethal shot at his 43-year-old son during a Friday evening argument, according to Lakeland police officers.
Officers responded to the Lakeland home on the 400 block of Carleton Street about 8:20 p.m. and found Lawrence Carlberg Jr. with a gunshot wound to the chest.
Carlberg was rushed to Lakeland Regional Medical Center in life-threatening condition.
He died an hour later, according to officers.
Reports say Carlberg Jr. was shot by his father, Lawrence Carlberg Sr., 65, during an argument. The son made lethal threats toward his father, and at some point, Carlberg Sr. armed himself with a 9mm handgun.
Officer say that when the son lunged at him, Carlberg Sr. fired one shot, striking his son in the chest.
A neighbor said the pair hadn't lived in the neighborhood long.
During the investigation, detectives learned that Lawrence Carlsberg Jr. recently had moved back into the house with his father from a residence in the county, and that Carlberg Sr. had filed for a protection order against his son.
"It's our understanding that they've had various arguments and some forms of fights when he lived in the county," LPD Capt. John Thomason said.
"The father recently moved into the city and filed the injunction against his son."
Thomason said it appears that the son had fallen on hard times and his father agreed to take him back in.
According to the Polk County Jail website, Carlberg Jr. spent over a month behind bars in 2011 on a domestic battery charge, but it wasn't immediately known who the victim in the case was.
After discussions about the case with the State Attorney's Office, all signs point to no charges being filed, according to reports.
"It's looking like they will continue with this as self-defense," Thomason said.
[ Clifford Parody can be reached at 863-802-7516. ]


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Maker's Mark and Apricot Glazed Spatchcocked Chicken
Maker's Mark and Apricot Glazed Spatchcocked Chicken
By Michael Schwartz, Chef/Owner, Michael's Genuine Food & Drink
The apricot bourbon glaze acts like a sexy new set of clothes for the chicken. I love this recipe for a smaller bird, like a poussin, and it's an elegant dish that works any time of the day.
Servings: 2–4
Prep Time:
Cook Time:
Ready In:
Cook Time:
Ready In:
- 1/2 cup Maker's Mark® Bourbon
- 1 tablespoon apricot preserves
- Juice and zest of 1/2 lemon
- 1/2 teaspoon fresh thyme, minced
- 2 teaspoons honey
- 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
- 1/4 teaspoon cracked black pepper
- 3 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil
- 1 whole, 3-1/2 pound chicken
- 2 fresh apricots or plums, cut in half with pit removed
- 1 small red onion, peeled and cut into 6 wedges, leaving the stem intact
- 2 cups fresh arugula
- 1 tablespoon champagne vinegar
- 1/4 cup smoked almonds, roughly chopped
- Kosher salt and pepper
- Vegetable oil
- In a small sauce pan over medium heat, simmer and reduce the Maker's Mark® Bourbon by 3/4 until you're left with approximately 2 to 3 tablespoons.
- Remove from heat and pour into a small mixing bowl.
- Add the apricot preserves, lemon zest and juice, thyme, honey, salt and pepper and stir to combine.
- Combine 2 tablespoons of olive oil with the mixture and set aside to use as a marinade for the chicken.
- Butterfly the chicken: With the breast side down and the tail of the chicken facing you, use poultry shears to cut along the length of one side of the backbone.
- Turn the neck end to face you, and with the breast side still down cut along the backbone and remove it.
- Turn the chicken breast side up and open the chicken on the cutting board.
- Use the palm of your hand to flatten the chicken, pounding it to a fairly even thickness.
- Place the flattened chicken in a large zipper storage bag and pour in the marinade, reserving 1 tablespoon to be used later to glaze the grilled chicken.
- Let sit 30 minutes at room temperature or up to 2 hours in the refrigerator.
- Pre-heat the grill or a cast iron grill pan over medium heat.
- When hot, brush the grill grates with a wire brush, then rub with a paper towel blotted with vegetable oil.
- Liberally season the marinated chicken with salt and pepper and place on the grill skin side down.
- Place a heavy cast iron skillet on top of the chicken and cook, undisturbed for about 20 minutes.
- Have a spray bottle filled with water handy at the grill.
- To prevent the skin from burning, you will have to extinguish flare-ups from the get go, and then sporadically as the chicken cooks.
- You may need to adjust the heat of the grill to low.
- Drizzle the apricots and onion wedges with the remaining tablespoon of olive oil, season with salt and pepper and grill along with the chicken for about 10 minutes, turning the onions once, half-way through.
- Remember the grill is on low, so they will take a bit of time.
- Once done, the apricots will swell slightly and develop nice grill marks, like the onions; remove, allow to cool and cut into small chunks.
- Now remove the cast iron pan and flip the chicken carefully with tongs, as the skin may cling a bit to the grates.
- The skin should be dark golden and crisp.
- Baste with the remaining tablespoon of glaze and continue to cook, skin side up, without the skillet for about 5 to 10 minutes or until the internal temperature registers to 165 degrees.
- Remove the chicken and allow to rest on a wooden board or rack for 5 minutes.
- In a mixing bowl combine the arugula, champagne vinegar, the remaining tablespoon of olive oil, the chopped apricots and onions; add salt and pepper to taste.
- Cut the chicken into pieces and serve with the tossed salad topped with the smoked almonds.
Tags: Recipes, Entrees, Apricot Preserves, Lemons, Lemon Zest, Thyme, Honey, Kosher Salt, Pepper, Olive Oil, Chicken, Apricots, Red Onions, Arugula, Champagne Vinegar, Almonds, Vegetable Oil, Hungry


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THROWING IN TOWEL: Billionaire investor Carl Icahn gave up his bid to buy truck maker Oshkosh after less than 25 percent of the company's shares were tendered before his offer expired.
SHAKE-UP SOUGHT: Icahn, who is known for buying stakes in struggling companies and then shaking them up with mixed results, had maintained that Oshkosh needs new management and a new strategy.
'OPPORTUNISTIC': But Oshkosh recommended that shareholders reject Icahn's offer, calling it "highly conditional, inadequate and opportunistic." Oshkosh's stock fell nearly 4 percent Tuesday.


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Joel MelendezArizona Diamondbacks
Outfielder | Ht: | Wt:
|Diamondbacks | Minor leaguer arrested
Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:31:00 -0700
Steve Gilbert, of Diamondbacks.MLB.com, reports Arizona Diamondbacks Class A Yakima OF Joel Melendez was arrested and charged with thirddegree rape Wednesday, July 25, in Salem, Ore. Melendez, 21, was charged with having sex with a 15-year old girl, and Lt. Dave Okada of the Salem Police Department told The Associated Press that there was no force involved. Melendez has been placed on the restricted list by the Diamondbacks.
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YARMOUTH, Maine—Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Yelp.
If your alarm company isn't familiar with these big hitters in social media, eventually it will be—whether you like it or not. The key is to embrace the tools that otherwise could be used against you, or at the very least used by your competition to profit at your expense.
© 2018 United Publications Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.


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Is It Rude To Link To Someone Without First Asking Permission?
from the not-that-I've-ever-heard dept
Of course, when you combine this with Nina Paley's excellent post about how asking permission when none is needed is rude, it seems that we have a pretty serious disagreement here. Not surprisingly, I agree wholeheartedly with Nina and find Gannon's position both troubling and enlightening when it comes to his confused interpretation of intellectual property issues. He seems to think that a permission society is just fine. Those of us who actually create for a living know that this is not the case. It's a distraction and an annoyance when people feel the need to keep asking you for permission to do what they naturally have the right to do. Permission society is one that is less creative and less willing and able to create. Permission society is the exact opposite of what copyright law is supposed to create. It's not supposed to be a drag on creation. The whole point of things like fair use is that you don't have to ask for permission because it's inefficient to ask for permission in those cases. That he's suggesting that it's somehow discourteous not to ask for permission to do what the law clearly allows is really quite troubling.
In the meantime, has anyone actually ever heard that it's common courtesy to ask someone permission to link to them? I spend a lot of time online and I link to a lot of websites (over 38,000 posts last we checked...) and no one has ever suggested that I should have asked permission first.


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In 1985, the first Antarctic ozone hole was discovered. Just two short years after the discovery, the Montreal Protocol, an international treaty, was established to protect the disappearing stratospheric ozone layer. The treaty called for the phasing out of all ozone depleting chemicals and was negotiated and signed by 24 countries and the European Economic Community.
In those early years, global warming was a highly emotional issue and it has been suggested by some that perhaps the treaty moved too quickly in naming chemicals purported to be causing the ozone depletion, and then developing the plan to phase them out. At the time these chemicals were being identified, there was no scientific evidence that pointed to methyl bromide's role in depleting the ozone, but unfortunately it was included in the group of chemicals to be phased out.
No depletion proof
Since the establishment of the treaty nearly two decades ago, substantial research has been done on the affects of methyl bromide. As it turns out, there is no evidence demonstrating that agricultural uses of methyl bromide are a factor in ozone depletion. In fact, what the sound, objective evidence does clearly demonstrate is that natural sources (volcanic activity, the ocean's wave activity, etc.) release up to 100 times more bromide into the atmosphere than those caused by the use of methyl bromide by man.
Still, methyl bromide remains on the list of chemicals to be phased out, putting our nation's farmers and growers at an extreme disadvantage to compete in the growing global market. The treaty's response has been to allow for Critical Use Exemptions when there is no available alternative that is both technically and economically feasible, and acceptable from a public health standpoint.
The United States continues to push the position that in the absence of any feasible substitute, methyl bromide usage must continue. Currently, the only option for agriculture is the laborious Critical Use Exemption system.
Our nation's economy demands a healthy agricultural environment. Fortunately, our State Department, being well educated by leaders in the agricultural industry, is a fervent advocate on behalf of our nation's growers in the negotiation of Critical Use Exemptions. But it's an arduous system that is based on negotiations with the many other nations that are party to the treaty.
The Critical Use Exemptions for 2006 have been allotted — at 32 percent of baseline, and negotiations are currently under way for the requested 29 percent of baseline for 2007 Exemptions. What will be the level of reductions we're ultimately forced to accept?
While our nation takes its position on the continued use of methyl bromide, many nations, and the European Union in particular, are aggressively moving the treaty forward. Still other countries are not even parties to the treaty and insist they never will be, including two growing economic powers: China and India. They are under no regulations to discontinue or even reduce their use of methyl bromide.
None of this adds up to a bright future for America's agribusiness. It's time to ask some difficult questions in order to effect real change for our country and our industry.
If restrictions in the use of methyl bromide have made no environmental gain, should we be asking legislators to review our involvement in the treaty? What is our justification today?
If our economy depends on a strong agricultural industry, and our world deserves a safe food supply, shouldn't we be diligent in asking the difficult questions? Perhaps there is no longer justification for the treaty itself.
This is a diplomatic situation to be certain. We don't have the answers, but we do have lots of questions. We will continue working with our government to educate our leaders and promote the future of America's agribusiness. For more information on this topic, please write to me at [email protected].


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With German business confidence faltering in the aftermath of weak economic data, the once economic strength of the Euro-zone is faltering. Oil prices are coming off their lowest levels of the year, the U.S. stock market is soaring and the perception that the Eurozone will have no choice but to lower rates so perhaps they'll have to take even more aggressive steps to breathe life into their faltering economy.
But it is not just Europe! The sell-off that we saw in gold and oil was a wakeup call to the G-20 and other global central bankers that the risk of falling back into deflation is high unless they start ramping up the printing presses. Confidence is faltering and it is clear from the G-20 that the plan they have is to print and print and then print again.
And with oil that is all we have. Demand expectations have been falling. The Global Oil demand outlook would continue to decline as oil inventories begin to rise. U.S. oil supply is expected to rise to another 22-year high in today's Energy Information Administration report yet the American Petroleum Institute reported a small decrease in supply.
So for oil, remember you can't fight the Fed or even the ECB and you can't outlast the guys who can print the cash. But really from a technical standpoint, the oil market was probably ready to bottom anyway.
Now the return of the Big Motiva refinery put downward pressure on RBOB, continuing the sell-off that we predicted. While gas may rebound, the abundance of U.S. crude and changing U.S. demand patterns mean, as I have said before, that we are at a the end of an era of high gasoline prices. Yet if oil can continue its rebound, we might be able to eke out a rally.
So much for the summer rally! The Energy Information Administration reported that this year's gasoline price increase was one of the smallest price increases the last ten years. RBOB futures have responded, defying the calendar and the anti-speculator crowd. Poor Congress! What are they going to do when they can't call for an investigation on rising gas prices? They won't even know it's spring! Where are the oil speculator critics! Why are they not calling for an investigation of falling gas prices? Why don't those folks that said that oil would be $30 then $40 then $50 then $60 then $70 then $80 a barrel if the speculators were dealt with start screaming. And if the speculators are not a factor, then why does oil not fall to what they said was a fair price for oil.
Maybe it is time for them to acknowledge that in the oil market speculators did not drive the market but were driven to the market by the fundamentals. Fundamentals that some critics said had nothing to do with the price movement like central bank policy but now always use these factors in their analysis.
The China growth deniers that said around the year 2000 that China was not the reason for oil going up but those darn speculators, or blaming oil speculators for monetizing oil then accepting dollars for oil in return. Let's investigate why the critics of speculation got is so wrong. Let's call them in front of Congress and have them explain why gas prices are falling while the speculators are still out there. Let's have them explain how prices can fall while they are trading ETF's and electronic trading? Besides it will keep Congress occupied from doing something else like raising more taxes and spending more money they don't have.
The natural gas is still correcting a bit, coming down closer to the lower end of the uptrend channel. Still the best performing commodity of the year may get support from more cold weather.
Yet of course it is not only the front end of gas that is garnering attention. It is the back end. As we have said before natural gas is still the best play in the Commodity Space! Even Goldman says it is a safe haven. We think so too. And while a rising crude market and a lot of easing may not really help the rally over the long run, it will not hurt its upward prospects. Long term money printing is inflationary and that will help the longer end of natural gas at some point. If you are looking for an uptick in inflation, look at natural gas 5 - 10 years out that is wildly cheap compared to the front end. Forget gold as an inflation hedge - maybe it should be Natural Gas! Ok, maybe both!


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Pallid's PR problem
For a large, ancient and extremely endangered species, the pallid sturgeon receives remarkably little respect. The fish is nobody's poster child. Unlike trout and salmon, it has no real champions among environmental groups; it occasionally gets passing mention, but little direct advocacy, and few are actively engaged in the recovery effort. Pallids spend their entire lives deep in cloudy rivers, so people rarely glimpse them, let alone connect with them. And though they face many of the same threats that salmon do, they lack that fish's economic or cultural value.
In the Lower Missouri Basin, in particular, efforts to restore the river to improve pallids' prospects are often loudly opposed by the barge industry, which requires deep channels and tends to resist changes in flow management. Though commercial freight is a relatively minor industry on the Missouri today, the Army Corps still concentrates much of its energy on preserving a nine-foot-deep channel for barges. This doesn't square with the reproductive whims of pallids, which are triggered by the river's seasonal changes. But given their lack of economic value, it's a tug-of-war that pallids are likely to lose. Nor do they have fans among anglers, unlike paddlefish, their arguably odder-looking cousins, which are fished for fun and for roe that's become a popular caviar.
"If we said, 'We need to conserve paddlefish,' " says George Jordan, the Fish and Wildlife Service's pallid recovery coordinator, "people would come out of the woodwork (to support it)."
The agencies and biologists who work on pallid recovery have thus become the species' de facto champions. In recent years, the Fish and Wildlife Service and state wildlife departments have stepped up public outreach, sending biologists into schools to teach the fish's natural history, and offering hatchery pallids to Cabela's in South Dakota, the St. Louis Zoo, and California's Steinhart Aquarium. But the adults need flowing, turbid water to thrive and aren't easy to keep in aquariums. "And people like big fish," says Jordan. "When we send them hatchery fish that are eight to 10 inches long, they are less impressed." Pallids take years to reach their formidable lengths.
Still, river managers and researchers hope their efforts will foster public support for the fish. With more species in trouble than cash-strapped public agencies can handle and the Corps' facing big budget cuts to its Missouri River Recovery Program, the effort to save pallid sturgeon may only continue if the public starts caring about their fate.
"I think (pallids') eyes are too small," jokes USGS ecologist Aaron Delonay. "Bigger eyes would Disneyify it a little." Delonay himself finds the fish "awe-inspiring" and "elegant." He likens their strong, shark-like build and the way they cruise along the river bottom -- something researchers can see thanks to advanced sonar technologies -- to a Formula One racecar.
Even if it's "not a beautiful fish to some," says Jordan, "it's been in the river a long, long time" -- before the dams, before humans were even around to build them. Pallids are a legacy of a river wild. "If (they're) not worth fighting for," he asks, "then what is?"