text:
Rose Red
37 comments:
- Acorn to Oak said...
What a beautiful hat! I absolutely love everything about it...the pattern, the color...gorgeous! Beautiful pictures too!
- August 8, 2009 at 9:58 PM
- kjt said...
Gorgeous! I love it!
Wear the hat around the house for a long time so you forget that it is on. That way you'll forget about it when you wear it in public. - August 8, 2009 at 10:19 PM
- Melody said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- August 8, 2009 at 10:41 PM
- Melody said...
"Now..all I need to do is get used to wearing a hat in public without feeling ridiculous."
I have the same phobia. It's the same one I have toward the cute knit bows I've began making and selling in my shop. They look good on me, in the comfort of my own home of course, but I've not gotten brave enough to wear them outside. I'm loving this hat, enough to make one for myself to actually....wear.
It can be overcame though because I used to not wear scarves in public either. Now I can't wait to pull them out and wear again. - August 8, 2009 at 10:43 PM
- Unknown said...
Hello Alana, It looks lovely on you, I promise! The colour really suits you and combined with the yarn's fuzzy softness, it makes a lovely "frame" for your face :)
- August 8, 2009 at 11:53 PM
- Clumsy Knitter said...
There is no reason to feel ridiculous--the hat suits you, truly! Very, very beautiful. :)
- August 9, 2009 at 12:41 AM
- Bonnie said...
With a hat like that I don't know how you could feel anything but georgous! It is beautiful and looks great on you.
- August 9, 2009 at 5:33 AM
- mike and chenoa said...
Love it! I may have to knit one for my sister in law.
- August 9, 2009 at 6:16 AM
- Cybèle said...
surely the photos show you that this hat looks great on you and you don't need to worry at all about wearing it in public! You'll be turning heads - but of admiration. It's gorgeous.
- August 9, 2009 at 6:16 AM
I too understand hat phobia, although mine has developed more because of my uncooperative hair than anything else.
This hat is very lovely, and the color suites you well. Be brave and wear it! - August 9, 2009 at 7:13 AM
- Puttermeister said...
It's so cute on you, and the color suits you. Lovely!
- August 9, 2009 at 7:24 AM
- Niki said...
Gorgeous! You have convinced me that I need a Rose Red for winter. I enjoyed making Gretel, so I look forward to this one as well. I hope mine turns out half as nice as yours.
- August 9, 2009 at 7:47 AM
It's so pretty! Looks great on you (& btw you are so pretty too!)
- August 9, 2009 at 9:07 AM
- Jodi said...
Just lovely! I already have some of that very yarn (but in periwinkle blue) set aside for that very pattern. You're inspiring me to dig it out and cast on!
I think it will be very wearable! - August 9, 2009 at 9:54 AM
- Nic said...
Absolutely lovely. And the hat's pretty nice too. (lol!)
- August 9, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Love the hat. When it gets cold you'll feel just fine wearing it. What a beautiful color and design!
- August 9, 2009 at 12:42 PM
- Poethead said...
I really love this hat! I'm going to scoot over to Ravelry, now, and see if you posted the information you know I'm going to ask for! I love it!
- August 9, 2009 at 3:37 PM
- Poethead said...
I love this hat! I'm going to scoot on over to Ravelry, now, and see if you listed the details! Otherwise, you'll be hearing from me. I love it!
- August 9, 2009 at 3:39 PM
- Dawn said...
What an awesome hat! Looks beautiful on you!
- August 9, 2009 at 3:52 PM
- Pam Sykes (aka Pretty Knitty) said...
Be-a-u-ti-ful! And such a pretty model. . .you should be proud to wear hats in public!
- August 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM
- knitbot said...
You shouldn't feel ridiculous - this hat looks amazing on you!
- August 9, 2009 at 6:37 PM
- Dajda said...
The hat is beautiful and you look lovely, you should definitely wear it a lot!
- August 10, 2009 at 4:18 AM
- Unknown said...
This is SO pretty!! And very inspiring. I love sublime angora merino and have a ton of it (bought on irresistible sale) just itching for a project...I think I know what I'll be knitting next.
- August 10, 2009 at 5:07 AM
- Kate said...
Hmmm, partial skein...could it be that the little Miss needs her own Rose Red to match mama? Then you'd be able to knit it again. Ha!
- August 10, 2009 at 7:57 AM
- Rebekah said...
OH my goodness that is absolutely gorgeous, and it looks gorgeous on you! I love the color with your complexion.
- August 10, 2009 at 2:29 PM
- Laura Michelle said...
It's beautiful! The colour is great on you, so vibrant.
- August 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM
- Melissa said...
Yeah, you definitely need to get over your hat phobia because you look adorable in hats!
- August 10, 2009 at 6:31 PM
- Thea_Midnight said...
Alana, you look so beautiful in all of your pictures and especially in this hat. Lucky lucky you!
TheaMidnight - August 11, 2009 at 12:45 AM
- knittinglane said...
I don't know why you have hat phobia...you look gorgeous in them! I've also knit this hat and just LOVE the pattern...can't recommend it highly enough!!
- August 11, 2009 at 7:57 AM
- Perry said...
It's a lovely pattern and hat-- just gorgeous!
- August 11, 2009 at 5:27 PM
- Rach said...
- August 12, 2009 at 8:30 AM
- Paula said...
Definitely a beautiful topper and you show it off well. Just pretend that you always wear hats and soon you will believe it. With your beautiful hair and complexion, you should stride with confidence!
- August 12, 2009 at 2:26 PM
- Robin said...
Oh. My. Gosh. I LOVE IT!! That is beautiful!
Btw..I think you look gorgeous in the hat, too! - August 14, 2009 at 12:24 PM
- Unknown said...
Fantastic! Great colour, great work, great pictures.. Would like one like that myself :)
- August 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM
- Deb said...
Oh, I love hats too, and I definitely want to make your Rose Red hat. I think it's beautiful, and I think you look beautiful in it too :).
- August 17, 2009 at 5:31 PM
- calicodaisy said...
So pretty! Is that you under the hat? Perfect color for you. I just finished crocheting a raspberry beret for my 17-year-old, and she loves hers, too, although way to warm to wear it in SC right now.
- August 26, 2009 at 1:42 PM
- Karen said...
Wonderful job. You look awesome in Red
- November 28, 2010 at 1:46 PM


text:
You might remember my rant regarding Grandin Road selling Grim's Cloaked Ghost design...
Looks like they're selling another product "inspired" by someone's work.
Here's the original design by artist William Bezek.
The clothing:
The faces:
Here's the Grandin Road offering:
More information at the artist's blog. (DEAD LINK)
And thanks, wicKED, for the heads up on this.
UPDATED 8/18: I've updated this blog post to include another image of Bezek's, showing without a doubt that his design has been stolen. Grandin Road threatened him with legal action so he has removed his original blog post. They claim they are not responsible for the theft, but merely ordered the product from another company. Which probably is the case.
But it's still just as disgusting.
Do the right thing, Grandin Road. Contact the supplier and let them know you won't be ordering from them next year due to this bullshit.
Yeah, I didn't think so.
Any Halloween-loving lawyers out there?
Saturday, August 18, 2012
Grandin Theft (UPDATED)
62 comments:
- joy said...
the originals are SO much better.
Still...it is sad that you almost have to patent your designs! I believe that your cloaked ghost was inspiration for Grim's...wasn't it?
joy - August 16, 2012 at 8:27 AM
- Rot said...
It's an ugly spot to be in. They know we don't have unlimited funds to fight something like this.
Lawyer fees are $300 an hour.
The sad part is that for these big companies the commission payment is 5% on WHOLESALE price (not retail) so we're not even talking about them losing a ton of money by paying the creator. It's just PURE GREED. They want it all.
Yep. Grim's cool ghost is based on my Cloaked Ghost from 2007.
And no one will ever convince me that Grandin didn't directly rip off his design. - August 16, 2012 at 8:31 AM
- Anonymous said...
That is just insane. Their's don't even look good. Looks so cheaply made. I'm surprised that we haven't seen your witch jars yet.
The least they could do is contact the person and offer them a little something and give them credit on the web site. - August 16, 2012 at 8:54 AM
- Terrormaster said...
"Good artists copy, great artists steal." - Picaso (and later quoted by Steve Jobs)
Haunting and technology are my two biggest hobbies (the later is what puts the bread on the table). As I've been following the Apple vs Samsung legal battle for the last weeks this general topic hits home in more ways than one. I'm no fan of Apple at all and their crazy broad patents and patent trolling are by far the worse in the industry. But, IMHO, they have a case against Samsung. The original Galaxy phone line was very obviously trying to make their iteration of Android look like iPhones with only slightly different dress.
The same is true here with Grandin. These designs are blatant copies of Grim's and Bezek's work. Oh the fabrics might be different but the source is obvious. Bezek's is a little less obvious though than Grim's. If it were just farmer and not he and his wife then it's totally different. But the design of the wife's outfit points directly to Bezek's work.
So how do I interpret Picaso's quote? Good artists copy is obvious. It's the second part - great artists steal. It means we are inspired by others work but we go beyond copying and by making it our own, giving it our own touch that makes it unique from the inspiration. Grim's work is inspired by Rot's work but he made it his own and stands out as its own - he stole it, it's no longer Rot's. Grandin copied Grim and everyone knows it. There's nothing unique about Grandin's design - its a COPY.
In the end it's ok to be inspired by something. And copying is ok as long as you are improving upon the original and making it yours. With Grandin this is simply not the case. - August 16, 2012 at 9:02 AM
- Rot said...
I've been aware of that quote for some time now and it's still an unsourced/unverified quote by Picasso.
There's a part of me that doesn't accept that he'd ever say that. Though he was a pretty funny dude and had a great sense of humor when it came to art critics, so he may have said it in jest. I think he once said that he'd sign a really good forgery. So who knows.
I think it boils down to these artistic issues:
Try your absolute best to be original.
If you copy/borrow/are inspired by someone's work, cite the source.
And never EVER make money off of another person's design.
The art of inspiration is all about being honest to yourself. And an artist always knows where the idea came from - inside their head, or outside of it. - August 16, 2012 at 9:24 AM
- Ghoulie Girls said...
I saw Bezek's post and it got me thinking. Is it Grandin Road that's being a copy cat or is it a manufacturer?
I ordered from GR recently (not the Bezek knock-off) and two of the items were Tekky Toys brand. (The knock-off doesn't appear to be made by TT.)
I'm not sure if GR makes or commissions any of it's items so the thief could be a manufacturer from which GR just happens to purchase. This just further complicates any legal battle.
I personally will not purchase a piece that is a knock-off of another's work. Unfortunately, most shoppers will never know. - August 16, 2012 at 9:49 AM
- Rot said...
I think you might be right.
I'd presume they order from wholesale catalogs, but I'm not sure.
Hopefully they take their copyright abuse policy seriously and right any wrongs. They have a link on their site to report such matters. - August 16, 2012 at 9:57 AM
- Anonymous said...
Amazing. I just don't get it.
I'm really surprised that we haven't seen them rip off witch jars or any of your pumpkin scarecrows. - August 16, 2012 at 9:59 AM
- Aron said...
I was wondering when this was going to become an issue again (since your original post about the cloaked ghost). Looks like this is behavior that is going to continue for a while due to the increasing creativity of haunters, their lack of legal recourse, and the ease of finding/stealing ideas on the internet. Sad times.
- August 16, 2012 at 10:09 AM
- MorbidMariah said...
It's interesting, I was just looking at the website of an artist named Thomas Kuebler (whose work I think ya'll would LOVE ... www.tskuebler.com) last night, and on his FAQ page he lists the question "Do you have any words of advice for the aspiring artist?" His answer was "Always copyright your work. www.copyright.gov" I'm betting he's had to deal with the frustration of somebody ripping off his work too.
- August 16, 2012 at 11:17 AM
- Terrormaster said...
Rot, I'm right there with you on citing the original artists - but only to a certain extent. I don't believe every single piece of inspired work needs to automatically and publicly credit the source of the inspiration. It's really incredibly subjective. Almost every artist was inspired by someone at some point in their careers. But in a lot of cases I don't think every single piece of work an artist does that was inspired by another artist needs to be tagged with the source of their inspiration. A simple entry in their bio (or during an interview) along the lines of "artist x has always been an inspiration for my work... blah blah blah" should suffice. It depends on how close the work is to the original. Grim's piece is obvious to anyone who has watched your work over the years as being inspired by you. However it's close enough design wise that he rightfully and respectfully credited a specific piece from your collection as the source of inspiration. Grandin (or the manufacturer as the case may be) did no such thing and the copy is WAY more blatant. And worse, they're making money off of it.
Again I think it's really subjective. The when and how much credit given really depends on how much the artists' work resembles the inspiration. And while there is a tipping scale where it becomes blatant copies, that line moves depending on which artist you ask. The same for the other end of the spectrum. The line where it becomes ok to profit off work inspired by other artists without royalties or credit moves depending on the artist - at what point is it no longer considered a copy. It's tough finding a specific point because its different for each of us. Those lines move based on how passionate we are about our work. In most cases its just not black and white as it may sound initially. In the end its on the conscious of the inspired to do the right thing.
There was a great discussion between David Amerland and John Rakestraw this past weekend over on Google+ on the very topic of plagiarism (you can watch the video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeGqvLcGkMM). The final thoughts were that it's the idea that should be protected not the words. I'm not sure how well this plays into art but it's worth a listen.
Sorry if this was a little long winded. This is a topic I feel very passionately about. And when Joy mentioned "patent" I got all bent out of shape. Patents are supposed to protect the artist and encourage innovation. But our system is so messed up it's actually doing the opposite - its suffocating us. Patents, at least in their current incarnation, are EVIL IMHO. - August 16, 2012 at 11:19 AM
- Rot said...
I hear you, Terrormaster, and this topic is always such an interesting one to discuss.
For me though it's really not all that subjective. If a piece of mine wouldn't have existed had I not seen it somewhere else, even if I completely changed the design, I'm in the camp that the source should be cited when presenting that piece. That's about as black and white and objective as can be. If that prop/painting/song/poem/film exists only because the creator was inspired by another artist's work, what's easier than saying "after seeing this piece by artist x, it inspired me to create this work..."
It comes back to that question I keep asking, had you not seen it elsewhere, would it exist?
That's very easy to answer. - August 16, 2012 at 12:26 PM
- Mr Black said...
This kind of thing really makes me mad. I hate to see people ripped off like that. Still, their copy is a pale shadow of the original work.
- August 16, 2012 at 1:09 PM
- Señor Scary said...
There's inspiration and then there is stealing. I would hope that Grandin Road had no part in sourcing the original theft - that was the unscrupulous manufacturer who sold them the design. However, they are now faced with a choice, AGAIN, since they are selling the pieces. They will likely not offer the original artist any restitution, and cannot acknowledge his work because that would admit wrongdoing and legally seal the deal. They will simply wait for the artist to make a move and in the meantime, make a buck.
Putting images online opens up artists to plagiarism and theft, and according to my lawyer friend, intellectual property is almost impossible defend in court (look at Apple's unlikely win against Samsung). Manufacturers rely on artists not having deep pockets to contest issues in court, and really, Halloween isn't given much serious acknowledgement to begin with. An artist declaring that a home goods company stole his zombie design would be fodder for ridicule.
Unfortunately, I was one of the schmucks who ordered the pieces and I have been building a display around them. Since I've altered them with a little blood, paint, and dirt, I can't send them back. Ugh. This definitely taints my whole display this year. - August 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM
- Terrormaster said...
Rot, that's a really great way to look at it - if they had not seen it elsewhere, would it exist? And that plays right in to what Scary Jerry was saying. If pictures are out on the web it's fodder to folks with the large wallets and unlimited coffers.
There's not much that can be done when we're the little guys except help each other out - which for the most part I think most of us do fairly well in our little community. Here's a thought that perhaps most of us can take something away from... I think when we're looking at things like this on a piece by piece basis (Grim's piece inspired by Rot's piece) then credit should be given along with the piece. But when we're inspired by another artist's work overall and not necessarily a particular piece work then perhaps its not necessary to credit every single piece but instead state in their bio "a lot of my work is inspired by..." etc.
For example, a lot of my stuff is inspired by the writings of H.P.Lovecraft. I always mention that when I talk about about work and always openly admit it. But I don't go tacking Lovecraft on to every piece I do. Most of the time it speaks for itself. Same if I wanted to do some paper mache ground breakers (which sadly I haven't found time for in the last 3-4 years). Maybe I would be inspired to make them based on what I've seen you do. Even though my ground breakers would look nothing like yours should I be attaching "inspired by Pumpkinrot" to every single ground breaker I make. Or do I tell people and put in my bio that Pumpkinrot has been an inspiration to my work? In each example I'm inspired by something the artist did. If their work didn't exist neither would mine. But in these examples there's no specific story or piece of art that inspired, just the mythos, style, aesthetics, and/or medium.
With the way social media works its time we all took a long look at plagiarism and how we think about it. By no means saying its ok to copy without credit. But in much the same way that old media needs give in to new media and think like new media or disappear. Perhaps artist need to reevaluate how we think about plagiarism. - August 16, 2012 at 2:44 PM
- Shani said...
Both of those look like blatant copies if you ask me. I think in the world of art...it's hard not to copy what inspires you whether it be someone elses work or something else entirely. But there is a difference between using someone elses work for inspiration while making the new design your own and just out right copying the design.
It's irritating to me to think that they couldn't have just given props for the persons they got the designs from. A little credit where credit is due would be nice. - August 16, 2012 at 6:17 PM
- Rot said...
I'm going to sound like a broken record...
If you created something from another person's idea/creation, you should cite the source, somewhere. Anywhere.
I guess in the end it's all up to the person's conscience. I personally try to force myself to avoid making stuff I've seen elsewhere. - August 16, 2012 at 6:51 PM
- Terrormaster said...
Rot, I think we're on the same page here just reading the words a little differently. You're summarizing and I'm getting granular. We both cite our sources we just choose to do it differently.
I never try to imitate anyone except as a learning experience only and to see how it helps my own work. It's why teachers teach and why a lot of haunters share how-to's. Not so others can copy us. So others can see what techniques we use and perhaps learn something from it. Of course when we do that we open the door for others to imitate us and claim it as their own. It's also why I don't really explain any of the mechanics of my designs much anymore. Too many people abuse that sharing. Plus it also ruins some of the magic.
And not to beat a dead horse myself. But I would like to believe we're in agreement at least at a very high level. We just choose to solve the same problem in different ways. As long as credit is given, even if it's inspiration, is what really counts. - August 16, 2012 at 7:59 PM
- Jon Glassett said...
Yeah, the cross-pollination of ideas between people who aren't selling what they make is one thing. I can see both sides of that debate (citation vs. none). When it comes to commercial use, though, it's pretty clear that someone is getting hosed here. The person who did the original design should be compensated, plain and simple. Product design is an important part of the process of getting something to a store shelf or catalog. Whoever manufactured this just saved themselves that step by lifting a design off the internet. As others have pointed out, though, we live in an age where the laws around intellectual property leave a lot to be desired. Those who attempt to legally defend themselves often lose even if they win. Others know this and take advantage. It's a shame.
But, you know, you can strike back in other ways. This post is a good example. Kick up enough dust and it might create pressure to either discontinue the product, be more careful about where they get their ideas or (and I know I'm reaching) maybe even make amends.
Does anyone know who the actual manufacturer is? Might be good to track that information down and start spreading the word about their practices. At the very least you can cost them a bit of business. I know I won't be buying their stuff. - August 17, 2012 at 8:52 AM
- Rot said...
Art classes teach techniques. Poetry classes teach techniques. It's the style and voice that's yours. I think citing "influences" is technically optional and that it's a matter of conscience and courtesy.
If a Haunter came across SkullandBone.com and was so moved by what they saw that they created a detail-oriented, flickering-candle-laden, sophisticated cemetery in their own style and voice, I personally think there should be a mention of the inspiration. If you always had those images in your mind and SkullandBone.com helped get you off your butt to do something about it then I guess a person could argue non-citation. But I'd still personally cite the source in a bio or side-bar when presenting the Haunt in photos on the interwebs. I just see it as being courteous.
I think one has to always be careful in assuming that the audience of your artwork is knowledgeable of the source material. If I create a tribute to William Beksinski (which I probably will do at some point in my life) I'll be sure to cite his work. And I won't assume the viewer will know his style and deduce naturally that my work is inspired by his work.
And I'm going to make a distinction between plagiarism when it comes to art vs other areas. I don't think anything needs to be redefined just because we're digital. We're not talking about computer programs and code here. We're talking about one artist creating a work. And why/how it exists.
The example in this blog post is pretty simple to me. The designer of those figures knows where that idea came from. Sure they can argue that they're just two corpses, no one owns the "corpse" design! But at the end of the day, that person knows where the idea came from. And I believe they found the design online on that artist's site. So it's a matter of misrepresentation. To me it's black and white. Everyone who creates knows where the idea came from.
And there's that question...did YOU create it? Is it YOUR idea? I happen to believe the answer to that isn't murky or nebulous or debatable or in need of redefining.
And I worry when someone wants to test the boundaries of plagiarism in the world of art. - August 17, 2012 at 10:24 AM
- Terrormaster said...
Art is art whether its painting, sculpting, sketching, video, film, theater, writing, composing, or playing an instrument. Even designing anything from homes, cars, websites, and computer engineering. And even designing and building Halloween props. How we think about plagiarism shouldn't be limited to the medium we choose to work in.
I still don't think it's black and white. Take Lady Gaga for instance. We all know she copped Madonna's style musically and attitude. She's made efforts to make it her own by being more over the top even though any keen listener knows better. Should she be citing Madonna in all her songs and videos? Should every musician be citing the Beatles with every song because we know most of them claim them as major influence. Should Gotye cite Sting because his voice and style sure do remind me of Sting. Should every musician cite their influences?
With the case with Grim's work it's very obvious they were lazy and lifted his design. That's not even inspiration. That's flat out stealing. I'm a bit on the fence with Bezek's work. Should his work be citing every time someone puts two dressed corpses together as a couple? I dunno, I thought of the numerous Halloween themed versions of the American Gothic painting. I never knew who Bezek was until you posted this. I've seen Spirit Halloween parody the American Gothic couple a few years back (I have pics someplace). Was Bezek inspired by Grant Wood? Should he be citing Grant Wood. Should the Grandin designer be citing Bezek or Grant Wood. What happens when art was inspired by art that was inspired by other art that was inspired by yet other art. A lot of art can be traced back because many artists are inspired by others even the greats.
Again I say it's subjective in a lot of cases. Not everything is blatantly obvious and black and white as what happened with Grim and Grandin. - August 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM
- Jon Glassett said...
I remember being in a class in college that talked a lot about intellectual property and the rights of artists to protect their work (I was a music major). The Internet was just picking up steam and things like file sharing hadn't happened yet, so we tended to focus on two areas: sampling and sound-alike music. Everyone's probably familiar with sampling. Sound-alike music hasn't gotten quite the same amount of attention. In a nutshell, that's when someone takes either a song or a signature sound and hires someone else to duplicate it, usually for advertising. Tom Waits had a big battle over this with Frito-Lay when they hired a guy with a similar voice to record music for a commercial.
This, to me, is like that. It's obvious that the intent was to imitate an original artist and/or their work and profit from it--doubly so, because they don't have to actually pay the original artist to do their thing. They just take the idea and make a knock-off. Fast, cheap and profitable.
Unfortunately, no matter how obvious a transgression it may be, it still IS nebulous and murky and debatable from a strictly LEGAL standpoint. It is now just as it was then. Tom Waits had a long battle and I'm not even sure that he won.
This needs to be fixed. Personally, I think one of the ways to do that is from the bottom up, so to speak, with a change in attitude. If more people understood and agreed that crediting those from whom their work is derived (and that word choice is not accidental--derived is different than, say, inspired) is the courteous and respectful approach, and if people got together to call out people who don't, maybe the law of the land would gradually shift to reflect that.
Look at Creative Commons. Lovely concept, because it combines the protective aspects of copyright law with the understanding that creative works are meant to be shared and built upon. CC may have its flaws, but it's the best alternative I've found to the absurdly complicated and self-defeating copyright laws we have today. If we had wide enough adoption of something like Creative Commons--enough to give it real teeth legally--we'd be a lot better off in situations like this.
But none of that happens without a change in general attitude. On that topic, I agree with Rot on this one. If you make something derived from or in the style of someone else, a citation is just the right thing to do and keeps you from looking like a phony. - August 17, 2012 at 11:36 AM
- Jon Glassett said...
Oh, and a PS:
(with no offense to Terrormaster)
I can't wait for that "Great artists steal..." quote to be buried. Preferably in a grave next to "Greed is good."
Huge cop out. - August 17, 2012 at 11:41 AM
- Terrormaster said...
PS. No offense taken Jon. We're adults here in a civil debate. The reason I brought the quote up is because it's quite often misunderstood and taken for granted. It's meant to be taken as a metaphor not literal like a lot of bad artists use it for as a cop out.
For those who don't get it, it basically means good artists will never be anything more than good because they only imitate other artist. They are nothing more than a fake, a copy of the original. Great artists steal means nothing more than that while they are inspired by others work, their work is not an imitation. They've added so much of their own originality to it that its really its own piece. They've made it their own.
But just because they've made it their own does not mean they shouldn't cite their inspirations either. - August 17, 2012 at 12:03 PM
- Rot said...
I think you're looking at this as a "CAN they technically legally get away with this?" as I'm looking at this as a "SHOULD they get away with this?"
I happen to be in the camp that think GrandinRoad (or the company they bought it from) stole that design from the artist. The fact that they did it last year with Grim's Ghost and the fact that these look intensely similar to Bezek's pieces (imagine them with the same colored clothing) is enough for me to suspect them of trolling the internet for ideas.
But my point isn't in trying to figure out if they stole that design. My point...my exact point..is that if they DID steal the design, they should cite and pay the creator. It's that simple.
Since accusations of theft on this blog always turn into discussions on inspiration and citing sources, I'll say again, it comes back to the question: Did YOU come up with that idea? I think your point is that there's no way of answering that question because the artist has been influenced by so many outside forces over their career and life. And my point is that ALL artists know where it comes from. Lady Gaga knows where it's coming from. I personally don't agree that she's a copy of Madonna like a lot of people claim. I happen to dig Gaga's music, and don't really dig Madonna's. And damn you for making me admit that.
But even that is getting off base. My entire point is that YOU know where YOUR ideas come from. Lady Gaga knows where her ideas come from - and if they're from Madonna, then she should say so...
I've been avoiding speaking for myself because it seems arrogant to me. But let's look at me and my body of work. I didn't invent the scarecrow or the witch or the groundbreaker. But over the years I built them. Because I had an image in my mind and a desire to make it happen. I made a scarecrow. And it had a hat and a coat and a skullish face. That was my interpretation of a Scarecrow. Same with my Witches. Classical designs, but my own take. I'm not suggesting I have to go back and find the first time I saw as a child a green witch and cite the source. But if I made one because I saw one online built by another Haunter, why not cite the source? I say "I SHOULD cite that source." You say "Do I HAVE to cite the source?"
I don't think it's as murky as you're making it. Not at all. How can it be?
My Swamp Foetus creatures have bulbous elongated heads. Some might say "Hey, he's a fan of Giger, they look like the Alien creature from ALIEN." And I comfortably know that I just dig elongated heads. I've been drawing them for years. Same with the Skull Witch. There are masks and decorations out there featuring Skulls wearing witch hats, but I'm comfortable that my concept came from my brain.
In the end, it's about that inner truth in the artist's mind. And I'm saying they always know where it comes from. And I think you're saying that they don't. And I just can't subscribe to that.
So I think this issue is a little messy because no one is sure if Grandin stole that concept from Bezek. And I want to be VERY clear that my point about this situation is this:
1. If they found that idea online from Bezek's work, they committed a crime.
2. If they thought of that design on their own and it resembles Bezek's work, then it's just a weird coincidence and no one owes anyone ANYTHING.
The truth is out there. And the parties involved KNOW the truth.
And that's my point. My only point.
Creators always know.
- August 17, 2012 at 12:30 PM
- Terrormaster said...
Rot, everytime I read your comments and I mine I keep saying in my head that we're both effectively saying the same thing in different ways. There's definitely a disconnect somewhere.
I think we can leave Grim's work out of this since everyone here agrees on that one. As for Bezek's work I can definitely see the similarities when pointed out. I'm not defending Grandin nor am I accusing them. I'm seen a lot of incredible coincidences in the design world. If they came up with it on their own then you are correct, let sleeping dogs lie. And if they did lift the design from Bezek's pictures on the web I agree here as well - they SHOULD cite him.
I think Jon has choosen the right word... Derived. When you derive from someone elses work you best give them credit. The Grandin piece definitely LOOKS to be derived from Bezek's work when you compare them. And if it is, the artist SHOULD give Bezek credit, never was a doubt in my mind here.
When we look at it in terms of derivitives, yes it's quite black and white as you say. But in terms of inspirations it can become quite nebulous because like you said we are inspired by numerous sources throughout our careers.
I think Jon has the right idea with adapting Creative Commons to Intellectual Property.
So yes, even if I don't come across that way, I am agreeing with what you are saying. Just giving my take on it.
P.S. Nothing wrong with Lady Gaga (I often include tracks in my Halloween party mix), Madonna (80s Madonna, not post 90s Madonna), Sting, or Gotye... And damn YOU for making me admit I like all of them :-P - August 17, 2012 at 1:34 PM
- Rot said...
And it's cool if you didn't agree with me, btw.
I have a feeling we both enjoy talking about this stuff. - August 17, 2012 at 2:53 PM
- Aron said...
Hi Terrormaster,
Did you go over to Bezek's blog and look at this pictures, not just the ones on Rot's blog? The top two pictures of his sculptures have identical heads to the ones on the Grandin Road props. They're not just similar, they're identical. They took those heads and placed them on bodies/clothes similar to another one of his sculptures (the pic on Rot's site, Pic #3 on Bezeks site). I'm just wondering because to me there is no doubt whatsoever that they lifted his designs. When I read Rot's post I though, "yeah, similar". But after I compared the pics on Bezeks post it removed any doubt I had about the theft. Just wondering - I've enjoyed reading your comments! - August 17, 2012 at 3:23 PM
- Grim said...
Thanks for posting this again, I enjoyed reading the comments.
I don't know if anything I have ever made was completely my idea, and I always try to cite where my ideas for certain props come from. Most of the things I have made were inspired mainly by Rot or Skull and Bone, with a few other people here and there. Sometimes, I'm even afraid to look at Rot's new creations, because I know it is going to make me want to build something similar, haha...
It didn't really bother me that much when I saw the ghost being mass produced and being sold by Grandin Road... it was actually kind of flattering that they thought something I made was good enough to copy. What bothered me the most was that I thought Rot might have thought I somehow sold this idea to some company and tried to make money off of what was originally his idea. I had no idea that they were even selling this prop until one day Rot sent me an e-mail showing it to me.
My suspicion, and I am totally speculating, is that this was made by some company in China or somewhere and that Grandin Road didn't have anything really to do with it. I have seen Chinese copies of a lot of different things, that look almost exactly the same as the real thing only made a lot more cheaply. I have no idea if that's what really happened, but that was my gut reaction the first time I saw it.
Thanks again, Rot, for always being such an inspiration through not only your artwork, but being a heck of a cool guy as well. - August 17, 2012 at 4:32 PM
- Terrormaster said...
It's cool Rot. I'm a straight shooter and call em like I see em. If I disagreed with you I would either not post it at all or speak my mind. Like I said earlier, we're all adults here and this is a pretty civil discussion. And you're right, this is definitely one of my favorite topics and a personal pet peeve. I guess we're both preaching to the choir eh?
@Aron: I was going by the pictures Rot shared. After your suggestion I went to the Bezek's site and perused his gallery. After doing that I've come down completely off the fence on this one. At first glance its not a copy per se. But once you see his other pieces you realize it IS a mashup of the Bezek's work. I can understand parody mashups. But Grandin Road making a buck off this without even asking Bezek is totally uncool and unethical IMHO. - August 17, 2012 at 5:16 PM
- Terrormaster said...
After thinking about this some more and reading Grim's response I'm not sure Grandin Road is at fault but probably some company in China mass producing these things. I mean Gemmy steals at the very least ONE idea from haunters every season without fail. I guess on one hand that could just be karma though since we've been hacking the hell out of their products for just as long. Doesn't make what they do right though.
On that note I think the ethical thing to do would be for Grandin Road's purchasing agent to verify the authenticity of any products they plan on carrying. Although I can only imagine the amount of work that would take. For starters doing a google image search against Grandin's ghost yielded no like results. - August 17, 2012 at 7:46 PM
- Rot said...
Interesting development: The blog post on Bezek's site has been removed.
- August 17, 2012 at 8:01 PM
- labratt said...
I get what TM is saying, but I just can't get past the fact that these corporate rapists are getting fat off the efforts of true artists....and they certainly aren't doing it in the name of furthering the art form. Squeezing out half baked Xerox copies of somebody's blood sweat and mache paste isn't art, or helping anyone...its getting wealthy off of a relatively new phenomenon. Sad and pathetic.
- August 17, 2012 at 8:23 PM
- labratt said...
Payoff anyone?
- August 17, 2012 at 8:28 PM
- Terrormaster said...
That's possible labrat. Or it could be Bezek has decided to involve a lawyer in which case it's in his best interest to not publicly discuss the case and was thereby asked by his council to remove it.
Or it could be Grandin Road's legal team that sent a Cease and Desist letter. Definitely an interesting development. For giggles I'm going to keep a snapshot of this discussion and post unless Rot has any objections. - August 17, 2012 at 8:37 PM
- Rot said...
I was thinking the same thing. This smells like a lawyer.
Hopefully he posts about the outcome.
No objections at all : ) - August 17, 2012 at 8:41 PM
- labratt said...
My other two thoughts as well. I hope its not the latter. Love to see one of those infringed upon have the means and stamina to fight.....and win! Now there would be a reason to celebrate, certainly moreso than another animatronic release party at your local spirit store.
- August 17, 2012 at 8:51 PM
- William Bezek said...
Hi Rot, Thanks for posting this...unfortunately I was threatened with legal action by Grandin Road if I didn't remove the post from my blog so the link you provided is a dead end. They claim no responsibility sighting some mystery vendor they bought the design from. I just wanted to clarify to some of the people who don't think these are close copies: the set you have pictured here are the figures they copied the clothing from, the OTHER set I did at the same time were the ones they copied the faces from...near exact copies obviously sculpted from my online photos. Maybe if they do it again we can all get together and sue as a group!
- August 18, 2012 at 12:28 PM
- Rot said...
Holy shit, man.
I really thought this was going to be good news.
Kinda speechless here. - August 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM
- Rot said...
And this is the part where Grandin Road SHOULD have said "here's the contact information of the supplier, sorry this has happened, we won't be ordering from that company next year, and we'll be contacting them to let them know exactly why."
But instead the artist gets a legal threat.
Makes me sick that the Universe doesn't work that way. - August 18, 2012 at 1:00 PM
- Autumnleaf said...
So does 'no responsibility' mean that one can purchase goods for resale knowing' that they've been copied from another source without permission? I mean,obviously Grandin Road knows the situation now. Should they be removing this product from their inventory? I'm unclear on this...I mean, I love the Grandin Road offerings..having purchased a few favorite things from them. Now I'm wondering how many of these are acquired from 'mysterious vendors' who simply copied someone else's work.
- August 18, 2012 at 1:14 PM
- Rot said...
I'm going to put real money on the fact that Grandin will continue to sell it if it's a profitable item. What they SHOULD do is be cooperative and apologetic. And I'm serious when I say that they need to terminate the business relationship with that supplier, or threaten them to do so if they catch this crap again.
But I'm not that naive. I know they won't do anything even CLOSE to that. As evidenced by them threatening the artist with a lawsuit.
Man, I hope he has a lawyer in the family. I can't think of a clearer case of theft. Those faces are identical. Even the winking eye. - August 18, 2012 at 1:19 PM
- Jon Glassett said...
This is disgusting. I'll never do business with Grandin Road and I WILL be spreading the word about this.
- August 18, 2012 at 2:33 PM
- Anonymous said...
Why not everyone just leave a product review of the "deadwalker couple" on Grandin's website? At least showing distaste for the theft? I even saw one that seemed like a copy of something from Terror Syndicate.
- August 18, 2012 at 4:34 PM
- Marrow said...
I'd be keen to know what your thoughts are on witch jars appearing in other people haunts and websites uncredited. It seems to me that due to how common they are now, haunters assume Witch Jars are in the public domain of Yard Haunting.
- August 18, 2012 at 5:23 PM
- Rot said...
I enjoy seeing the Witch Jars around in other haunts.
A credit would be nice, but someone could argue that the candle-in-a-mason-jar has been around forever...and they'd be right.
I just think a person should be courteous if a design comes from another haunter.
But I really want to stress that it's very VERY cool to see someone building something that they saw on my site. - August 18, 2012 at 6:48 PM
- Terrormaster said...
I had a bad feeling this was the direction this was heading. Being in the business of legal ebilling there are a few lawyers in house. I don't think any of them specialize in anything like this since most of our clients are corporate law departments. However I can ask around on Monday and see if anything can be done.
My other hobby used to be tinkering with making horror games in RPG Maker. As a result I was in numerous communities having to do with the RPG Maker app. There was a site owner I got to be pretty good friends with that was pretty ruthless about protecting the original artwork of her site members. I mean "track down the offender's IP, trace it to the host, and tell their mommy and daddy" ruthless (most of the members of the community were in the 13-21 age demographic). As far as I know though she never had to deal with big companies stealing stuff, at least not that I'm aware of. We need someone like that fighting for haunters. - August 18, 2012 at 8:07 PM
- Rot said...
It's bad news for the rest of us if these companies start using our websites and forums for design ideas. And not even having the decency to TRY to make it a different design. Like making the mouths different..or NOT having the same eye winking. It's blatant and it's arrogant. And it speaks volumes about how confident they are about getting away with this. - August 18, 2012 at 8:11 PM
- Aron said...
Rot, you're pretty much a household name in the haunt community. Go to any of the various boards and people are referring to certain props as 'pumpkinrots'. Even if people don't mention you most of us know what the deal is. You're stuff is like the flying crank ghost, we all know where it came from, and nobody could get away with saying otherwise. From what I can tell most uncredited props in the haunt community are made by people who don't really spend a lot of time online or think to credit the source. They see cool stuff, make their own copy for their little haunt with their kids, post pics, all without intending to rip anybodies ideas off. But that's the joe-blow home haunter. I wouldn't think that they should be of much concern. That being said, people who profit off stuff like this have no excuse. I'm thinking of that woman who wrote a witch jar how-to for her blog (you posted about this a long time ago). She knew what she was doing. Companies that distribute products have no excuse. Anybody who has been active on blogs/forums regularly or has a large-scale haunt doesn't have an excuse. The fact that an artist is being threatened by a company that is profiting off his work makes me sick to my stomach. This feels like when funnyjunk tried to sue The Oatmeal after they posted his copyrighted cartoons. Just a sad state of affairs.
- August 18, 2012 at 8:12 PM
- Terrormaster said...
DOH! Was perusing Spirit Halloween's online catalog to see what this year's offerings were and stumbled on this:
http://www.spirithalloween.com/product/gt-hanging-faceless-spectre/ - August 18, 2012 at 8:22 PM
- Anonymous said...
I am with Mr. Glasset, I will never buy anything from Grandin Road ever again.
And I even just got something from them too. >:( - August 18, 2012 at 8:58 PM
- labratt said...
Was really hoping this was going the other way. Just sad and pathetic. The Almighty $ trumps morality once again. Ridiculous.
- August 18, 2012 at 9:28 PM
- Mantan Calaveras said...
So Grandin Road demanded that HE remove the evidence from his blog? That's outrageous.
This is teaching me the very essential lesson that, if you are an independent professional artist you better keep a copyright lawyer on reserve.
Or better yet, learn the law, heh heh.
Perhaps it is time for the haunt community to come together and invest in a "Haunters Legal Defense Fund" to protect the community from copyright theft. - August 19, 2012 at 3:04 AM
- ShellHawk said...
For them to have bullied Mr. Bezek in that way is deplorable!
So here's my suggestion: POLITELY bomb their Facebook page:
and suggest that they do the right thing on a public venue. The word will get out that Grandin Road has a history of ripping off people's designs and that will on reflect their reputation as a company. Something to the effect of, "I know the artist and am familiar with his work. I understand your company has been in contact with him in this regards and that you have subsequently ordered him to take down a blog post citing your company's error in selling work that was a direct copy of his. Please do the ethical thing and make restitution to the artist, rather than renouncing any responsibility. It reflects badly on Grandin Road that the company would bully an individual artist merely because it has the capital and legal department to do so."
Of course, their lawyers could pull something like "slander" or some such nonsense, and that could have repercussions for William...
We are all aware that corporations can simply "lawyer up" better and longer than the average private citizen. They have very deep pockets and can simply wait it out.
What we, the community, may be able to do, is to force them to do the right thing by politely mentioning this and requesting that they restore their company's image. Public perception of a company can be a powerful tool. Going to the media, and social media can be an equally powerful tool, if you're aware of the potential backlash.
The fact is, these companies will continue to get away with ripping off our hard work because they can.
Thoughts, anyone? - August 19, 2012 at 11:04 AM
- Terrormaster said...
ShellHawk has the right idea. Internet movements are pretty powerful when organized properly. If their image gets publicly attacked they might be forced to take action so they don't appear to be the bad guys. But it has to be organized properly and in a way that won't actually backfire on Bezek.
I won't touch Facebook with a 10' poll (switched to Google+ 100% and have never ever looked back) so can't be very helpful there. But I still have a presence on Twitter. And if someone comes up with a message to slam them with I'm there. I will try to do my part on Google+ as well. - August 19, 2012 at 12:24 PM
- Terrormaster said...
They have a Google+ presence and so does Mr.Bezek. I've done my part:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/109278962630081587362/posts/TizGNqnmEGc - August 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM
- labratt said...
Just went on Grandin Roads site, says item no longer available.
Does not say out of stock.
Small victories. Hell yeah! - August 19, 2012 at 4:46 PM
- Rot said...
I just went there and was able to add it to a cart to order.
Where do you see that statement?
I think it's still available. - August 19, 2012 at 5:43 PM
- Adam said...
These are CLEARLY stolen by Grandin Road. He SHOULD hire a lawyer and see what his options are. If he has documents showing he created this, a judge would take one look at it and say its THEFT. Its not even "improved on." Thats the only way they can take it if its changed in a LARGE way.
- August 19, 2012 at 9:31 PM
- labratt said...
Mmmmm. I did a Google search from my phone and linked to it from pinterest. Might have spoke too soon.
- August 19, 2012 at 9:41 PM
- Mantan Calaveras said...
1) As ShellHawk suggests, let's start bringing attention to this problem in public venues
2) Find out who the manufacturer of this item is, and let's figure out what we need to do to incent them to stop stealing artists work. A manufacturer is less likely to have a big legal department defending them
3) I would still suggest that haunters put together a legal defense fund. Maybe write a trust. Collectivize your resources, and find a copyright lawyer who believes in the cause. It will only take a few lawsuits to discourage continued theft. - August 20, 2012 at 1:09 AM
- labratt said...
I found nobody else with the Bezek couple, however I did find 4 additional retailers selling versions of the cloaked ghost with chain and lantern. Targets is pretty pricey yet still is a pale imitation.
- August 20, 2012 at 2:10 PM

subset: commoncrawl


text: In this course, you'll explore how financial statement data and non-financial metrics can be linked to financial performance. Professors Rick Lambert and Chris Ittner of the Wharton School have designed this course to help you gain a practical understanding of how data is used to assess what drives financial performance and forecast future financial scenarios. You'll learn more about the frameworks of financial reporting, income statements, and cash reporting, and apply different approaches to analyzing financial performance using real-life examples to see the concepts in action. By the end of this course, you'll have honed your skills in understanding how financial data and non-financial data interact to forecast events and be able to determine the best financial strategy for your organization.


text:
Talk:Church of Antioch
Misleading Sentence
This sentence from the article is misleading: '[...the Church of Antioch refers to itself as the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East.] The literal translation into English of the Arabic name is "Roman (in Arabic, Rum) Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East." ' The Arabic word "RUM," while indeed literally translated as "Roman," fails to explain that "Rum" denoted Greeks of the Roman Empire (once the capital was moved from Rome to Constantinople); ie East Roman/Byzantine "Greek Romans." In fact, Arabic does not have an equivalent to the word "Greek" to this day, instead referring to the modern Greek nations (Greece and Cyprus) and it's people as Romans ("Rum").--Nikoz78 21:59, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
- Please read the title of the Church of Antioch's website: http://antiochpat.org/english/sitefiles/viewcontent.php?content=%241%24Fqww80sV%24LJtl/mpIsne5lz0mZ5kCy0_%241%24cY2fEC.3%242X4rjsf3DqIjEbC53bz6R/_%241%24Fqww80sV%24LJtl/mpIsne5lz0mZ5kCy0b56a92baa0ee987eb7f7e4a179b60efb&id=1&cat=%241%24DdKoSQCb%24FO96gT8jCFwnHPxW4LNZj1_%241%24pCxQHS8F%24GHaBW0fpsqpxYoSn4BE0M/_%241%24DdKoSQCb%24FO96gT8jCFwnHPxW4LNZj150102e124822220aaa78a8e3b2ccba34&catid=3&contentname=Historical%20Overview&catname=Other%20Contents Wsk 01:11, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
Hi. You say the Population estimate are 750,000 to 1,000,000. That is not true, we are just in Syria 750,000 to 1,000,000 and in lebanon 300,000 and in Iraq 250,000 and in Turkey 100,000 ... I read in Arabic ENCYCLOPEDIA that the Antioch Church Population are 12 Million around the world. Please change It. --Habib 16:43, March 8, 2007 (PST)
- Can you cite a source for this figure? One scholarly source with which I am familiar is this one, which lists the 750k figure. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 17:57, March 8, 2007 (PST)
Yes sure, ARABIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol I under word "ORTHODOX CHURCH" in arabic الكنيسة الأرثوذكسية by Nazim Kalas.
in arabic:
بطريركية أنطاكية وسائر المشرق، ومقرها دمشق،وتشمل ست عشرة أبرشية وثماني معتمديات بطريركية. ويتوزع رعاياها (نحو 12 مليوناً) في سورية ولبنان والعراق وأوربة الغربية وأمريكة وأسترالية.
it`s mean: Roman Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East, Headquarters in Damascus, it has 16 Archdioceses and the Believers are around 12 Millin in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Western Europe, America and Australian.
GBU--Habib 18:19, March 9, 2007 (PST)
- I can't read Arabic, but I am wondering about the nature of this source. Is it from a printed book? And does it cite a source for its figures? Thanks!—Fr. Andrew talk contribs 05:57, March 9, 2007 (PST)
ARABIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Is a printed book in Syria, Damascus. in More as 20 volumes. i Translated the Text from arabic to English. --Habib 18:19, March 9, 2007 (PST)
- File:ArabEncyc01.gif Arabic Encyclopedia printed in 11 volumes.
Chrisg 06:26, March 9, 2007 (PST)
- A link is sufficient. I'm almost certain that we don't have permission to use that image. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 11:47, March 9, 2007 (PST)
ARABIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Chrisg 11:53, March 9, 2007 (PST)
Habib definitely has a point. The population statistic given in the text says between 750,000-1 million in Syria alone, while the margin population for the whole patriarchate gives the same figure. It can't be as high as 12 million, but should be at least 2 million given America, Lebanon, Syria, Western Europe. Admittedly a real number would be hard to get.
This Church in Beirut is not an Orthodox one. It is a catholic armenian church in downtown. Our Church in downtown is St. George's. Please change the picture.
- The person who took the photograph went there and told me that it was Orthodox. In any event, can you provide a photo of another church? —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 05:55, 1 November 2005 (CST)
Yeah sure. I will get you a photo of St. George's. It's the oldest church in Lebanon. It's in fact three churches in one. It is really famous. I wonder who's that person who took that photo is! Didn't you notice that it's not built according to the Greek/Byzantine style.
- There are a lot of variations on the Byzantine style. You can see Greek parishes in the US that look like the one in question. By the way, it will be helpful to all of us if you'd sign your posts on Talk pages. You can use ~~~~ to add your name and the time to your additions. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 15:21, 1 November 2005 (CST)
Where is that talk page? and by the way, how do I add my name?
And with all due respect, the churches here (in this region) are ancient ones, unlike those in the US.
Roman Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East? Okay, I speak Arabic. We are "Roum Orthodox" in arabic. But Roum doesn't mean Roman, it means Byzantine. Just like The Roum Malkain are Greek Catholic, the Roum Orthodox are Greek Orthodox. Who has given you this faulty translation?
- Roum is indeed derived from Roman and quite literally means the same thing. There never was any such thing as a "Byzantine" Empire. The inhabitants of that empire regarded and called themselves Romans (Romaioi). The translation was provided by the liturgical Arabic professor here at the seminary, who is a native of Jordan. It's also been corroborated by multiple clergy of Arabic background whom I know. He tells me that the Arabic word for "Byzantine" (as in, "Byzantine chant") is Bizanti. So, the upshot is that I'm going to stand by this translation, as it is not only consistent with my own etymological studies, but has the authority of, well, the authorities.
- Regarding the architecture question, I was simply explaining why the church appeared Byzantine to me, not claiming that American ones were a standard. It is misleading, though, to imply that all the churches in the Middle East are ancient. There have been a goodly number that have been built in recent years, especially with the rebuilding of Beirut and the opening of other new churches, and thus a good number postdate many American ones, many of which are well over a century old.
- Regarding signing Talk pages, this page you are reading right now is a Talk page, and you can add your name by using ~~~~.—Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 17:45, 2 November 2005 (CST)
Church photo
Well, I've been told that the photo of the church we have here is Orthodox (a friend of mine), Armenian (Fadymm), and Maronite [1] by different sources. Anyone know the real story? —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 11:21, November 7, 2005 (CST)
- My husband found the website of the Greek Orthodox church of St. George, and one of the pictures (top right) looks as though it might be a different one from the pictures we have. Unfortunately, they do not have many (current) pictures of the exterior. Their newsletter (PDF, p. 10 of 12) has some, but I can't tell whether I'm simply looking at another side of the same building. He also found another site with external photos of Beirut's "St. George Greek Orthodox Church." This looks to me like a hard thing to pin down without a plane ticket. —magda (talk) 12:04, November 7, 2005 (CST)
- I've changed the image for the time being. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 13:43, November 7, 2005 (CST)
I am lebanese and I live in Beirut and I come from the North (somewhere next to Balamand). SO I know which chruch is Armenian, which one is maronite and which one is Greek Orthodox! That picture was of the catholic armenian church! My mother's aunt funeral was held there! I will try to take a picture of St. G in downtown this weekend. Fadymm 05:04, November 8, 2005 (CST) (the four tildas!)
"Roman" Orthodox redux
Re: the recent edits by Chrisg—
The Orthodox Arabs I know from the Middle East, whether Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Palestinian, etc., all use the term Roum commonly when referring to Orthodoxy (often in contrasting "Roman Orthodox" with "Roman Catholic"). I'm genuinely curious as to what the source is for the idea that Roum was an imposition by the Ottomans and then all these other states, especially since "Roman" is precisely how the citizens of the pre-1453 empire situated in Constantinople saw themselves.
Are all these governments really imposing this name on them by law? Do they really instead think of themselves as "Greek"? —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:06, March 13, 2006 (CST)
The Church of Antioch is known in the offical grants by the Ottomans and their political successors as the 'Rum' or 'Roum' Orthodox Church of Antioch and All the East. The surviving title deeds to properties are all in this name.
Since 1898 and the removal of the foreign language patriarchs and the installation of the principal language patriarchs, the Church of Antioch is not happy to be considered Greek or Roman or anything other than Orthodox.
However, the secular powers, especially the French, refused to allow any alteration to the name of the Orthodox Church. The French were unsympathetic towards the Orthodox in their purview, and would not do anything to assist their mission. The Maronites were their favoured variety of Christian.
The continuing attempts by some of the Greek Patriarchs in Istanbul to impose their ethnocentric sense of Orthodoxy on the Church of Antioch has caused many hard feelings, and an unhappiness to continue the use of the name 'Roum'. However the secular authorities are not interested in the convoluted process required to change a transnational name from what it has been for centuries.
chrisg 2006-03-14 1334 AEDT
- I can certainly believe that the Ottomans used the term Roum for the Orthodox, but ISTM that it couldn't have been an imposition but rather predates their takeover of the region (i.e. they were using the term the locals used for themselves), especially since Greek was a term for the pre-Christian pagans of the Empire.
- The French no longer have any control over the region, but I am curious if the current governments of all those states are mandating terminology. Do you have any sources that can be cited for the imposition view? —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:40, March 13, 2006 (CST)
=Since 1898 it has been viewed as an unwanted imposition since the earlier name could not be changed to reflect the new situation.
When you have one secular jurisdiction determining a name for a church, then it is relatively easy to change the name, such as with the name for the Orthodox Church in America. That name is registered at civil law.
However when you have a number of competing, unfriendly, or outright warring nations, all involved in the need to register the name in each of their territories, it becomes a civil law nightmare.
I am instructed there are no sources available in the English language.
However, following your inquiries, that may change in the very near future, as long as it doesn't become another bone of contention and source of greater estrangement between the Antiochian Church and the followers of a particular Imperial Ethnarch.
chrisg 2006-03-14 1447 AEDT
Syriac/Syrian Orientals
The source for the name Syriac (rather than Syrian) is Wikipedia:Syriac Orthodox Church, which notes that the church's holy synod changed the official English name in 2000. One can still find both Syrian and Syriac (example) used on various websites, but the only one for which there seems to be any reference in terms of officiality is Syriac. Fr. Ronald Roberson, an RC scholar specializing in Eastern Christianity, also notes this official change made in April 2000[2]. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:16, March 13, 2006 (CST)
I deleted the sentence characterizing Chambesy as representing universal consensus that the EO and OO Christological positions are the same in essence. Certainly, that is not true on the EO side of the argument. Chambesy has received severe criticism from a host of Orthodox voices.
In any event, a discussion of Chambesy is better left to its own article. If and when it is drafted, a cross-reference may be appropriate. —Dcn. David talk contribs 23:22, March 14, 2006 (CST)
Wrong Arabic interwiki
The Arabic interwiki links to "أنطاكية", which means Antioch, not Church of Antioch, and the article is about the town, not the church. --Filius Rosadis 14:45, August 24, 2007 (PDT)
Official Arabic name and other issues
According to the current version of the article, The literal translation into English of the Arabic name used under Ottoman law and its successors is "Roman Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East." But according to the official web page of the Church of Antioch, the name in Arabic is بطريركية أنطاكية وسائر المشرق للروم الأرثوذكس, which literally stands for "Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East for the Orthodox Byzantines" or for the "Orthodox Greeks". The Arabic word "Rum" doesn't mean Rome but Byzantium, i.e. Middle Age Greece.
Another confusing passage is "…Arabic name used under Ottoman law and its successors". The Ottoman Empire's official language was not Arabic but Turkish, and the Empire's successor is the Republic of Turkey, where the official language is also Turkish.
As for the last Patriarch who was a Greek national, the article's explanation conflicts with the official web page's historical overview.
The article's current version says: By the 18th century the great majority of the communicants of the Antiochian church were Arabs. In 1898 the last Greek patriarch was deposed, and an Arab successor was elected in 1899. Thus the patriarchate became fully Arab in character. But the Church's web page suggests that the patriarchate was mostly Arab in character except between 1724 and 1898: With the impending presence of Catholicism and its impact on Patriarchate elections, and for the purpose of preserving the Antioch see Orthodoxy, the Orthodox parishioners and bishops requested the ecumenical Patriarchate to send them a Greek patriarch. The Greek presence on the Antioch Orthodox see lasted from 1724 to 1898. But due to the increasing popular demand, the first Arab patriarch was appointed. He was Patriarch Malathius I (Doumani) the Damascene.
I'll make some editions, feel free to change or revert. --Filius Rosadis 14:21, August 28, 2007 (PDT)
Wrong names of syrian dioceses
Wikipedia [3] transfers a slightly different list of dioceses on the Middle East and Syria. --Stone18 09:15, February 18, 2012 (HST)
- The web sites for the Antiochian 'Archdioceses' do not use "Metropolis". The sites read "Archdiocese". Which is correct? Wsk 15:41, February 18, 2012 (HST)


text:
Special Feature
In a sport where experience and age are the two metrics used when determining if a fighter can be deemed a "prospect" or not, Jordan Mein makes the task a little more complicated than usual.
On one hand, the Lethbridge, Alberta native is just 23 years old, well within the acceptable age range for wearing the popular descriptor. On the other, one look at his resume shows that the UFC newcomer isn't short on experience, having racked up 26 wins and 34 fights since beginning his career with a first-round loss to Rory MacDonald in June 2006.
Next Saturday night at UFC 158 in Montreal, the talented young welterweight will make his first trip into the Octagon to face off with Dan Miller. It's a moment every fighter begins their career hoping to experience, and one that will mark the successful end of a well-executed plan concocted by Mein and head coach, manager, and father Lee.
"It's super, super-exciting," said the soft-spoken fighter on the verge of making his UFC debut. "The time is finally here, and I think I've fought the right people, and put in the right work, so it's all paying off. All my goals are kind of manifesting themselves and I'm super-excited."
Over the last few years, Mein has announced himself as someone to watch in the 170-pound ranks by repeatedly stepping into the cage with established veterans and recognizable names.
A six-fight winning streak that included wins over UFC veterans Joe Riggs and Josh Burkman, and former DREAM champion Marius Zaromskis earned him the opportunity to compete in Strikeforce. In his debut, the creative Canadian striker earned an impressive stoppage victory over former title challenger Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos, finishing the menacing Brazilian with a barrage of standing elbows in the third round.
After coming out on the wrong side of a split decision against Tyron Woodley, Mein rebounded with a decision win over Tyler Stinson before defeating another UFC veteran, Forrest Petz, in a fight under the Score Fighting Series banner in November.
"I think it has come together really nicely, and I've gotten to fight some top guys," Mein said of his steady climb towards his first fight inside the Octagon. "I'm not one of those guys that hasn't really fought anybody, and then I get in the UFC and I'm fighting Dan Miller. If I hadn't really fought top guys or trained with top guys -- I think that gets people in trouble, but I don't think I'm in that position. I think I'm ready for the best in the organization.
"Fighting those guys really puts that extra thing in your mind where you know you can beat the top guys, and how good you feel when you're fighting them or if you're finishing them. That really gives you some confidence, rather than knowing you fought guys that are 1-0 or 0-1, and you have an undefeated record. I think that really helps in the long run.
"Some guys do it and still go to the top – they still win – so I think it's to each their own, but for myself, personally, it has really been key to my career."
Not only has the amount of in-ring experience Mein has been able to accrue over his already seven-plus-year-long career been of great benefit to him, but his opportunity to headline a number of events in Canada and go through the rigors associated with being the biggest name on the marquee have also prepared him for life on the UFC roster.
While welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre made up half of the headlining act for the first UFC event in Ontario when he faced Jake Shields at UFC 129, Mein earned top billing on the first event held within Canada's most populous province, defeating Burkman at the aptly named "MMA 1: The Reckoning" event in Orillia, Ontario on April 2, 2011.
"I think that is going to be a big advantage for me," Mein suggested of his level of comfort with the media obligations, increased attention, and new situations that come with fight week. "Having been on that stage, having been on TV across America, and across Canada as well with the Score Fighting Series, having all that media exposure – if you've never done it before, it can take a toll on you.
"It's given me experience, and it's really put me in the right frame of mind, and the right attitude. I still have so much to learn when I go to the UFC and experience those new things as well, but I think it has done nothing but help."
All of that experience has him uniquely prepared for the next chapter of his career, which starts in full next Saturday night at the Bell Centre in Montreal when he steps into the cage the elder half of New Jersey's version of "The Fighting Miller Brothers" in the middle of the televised portion of the preliminary card.
Not many 23-year-olds get to walk into the UFC and make their debut against someone as seasoned and established as Miller, a fact that is not lost on the promising Canadian prospect.
"He's fought 11 times in the UFC, and he's fought a bunch of the top guys, so I'm super-excited to compete with a guy like that. Getting a win over a guy like that really catapults me into the UFC, and helps me start building a good name for myself.
"I think we're on Sportsnet too," added Mein, referencing the sports network that is home to UFC programming in Canada. "People know who Dan Miller is. Not too many people know who I am yet, but fighting someone that has a name is important; it's much better than fighting someone no one knows who is just as dangerous.
"He's a tough opponent, and I'm glad I got a tough opponent with a name. Everybody in the UFC is solid and not going to be easy to beat, so facing someone with good credentials in the organization is super-important."
In the wake of the recent cuts that purged the roster of more than a dozen fighters, there has been increased discussion about the need for competitors to entertain when they're in the cage. Luckily for Mein, that has never been a problem.
His striking repertoire includes an array of elbow strikes, and spinning attacks along with the standard compliment of punches and kicks, and 21 of his 26 career wins have come by way of stoppage. The Canadian Martial Arts Centre representative is ultra-aggressive inside the cage, willing to stand in the pocket and trade shots, confident he'll get the better of the exchanges in the end, without being careless.
"There's a fine line between going all out and being reckless or doing something stupid," laughed Mein, addressing his offensive approach and the added pressure to deliver a fan-friendly fight that continues to mount.
"People want to see entertaining fights – you want to win, and you want to be entertaining – but at the same time, there is that really thin line between running in at someone with your hands down trying to be exciting or going out of your element, rather than sticking to your own game plan; being a smart fighter rather than trying to be crazy the entire time.
"Finding that line and just stepping over it is what brings those entertaining fights together. That's the tough thing about the fight game – those mental battles and those physical battles – and that's why winning feels so good; overcoming all those things."
After having proven his mettle on the regional circuit and made his way to the big leagues, Mein is intent on following in the footsteps of his fellow Strikeforce graduates this weekend by delivering an action-packed performance in his debut, and establishing himself as someone fans look forward to seeing through what the Canadian newcomer hopes will be a busy year.
"I think the fans can expect entertainment when we get in there next weekend. I think I bring entertainment to the fight game and a new face in the UFC. I can't wait to be on a ton of UFC cards, and have a great 2013."
Power Slap


text:
Antibiotics are widely prescribed to control bacterial infections. Sometimes they are given before a medical or dental procedure, to prevent a possible infection from occurring; this practice is called "antibiotic prophylaxis." In the recent past, physicians and dentists advised that people with certain medical conditions — including a number of heart problems and several types of bone or joint replacements — should always take antibiotics before many routine dental procedures. Today, their advice may be different.
A growing body of evidence now indicates that far fewer patients need to take this preventive step than was previously thought. As a result, the guidelines for prescribing antibiotic prophylaxis have recently changed — and they may do so again in the future. Why are the recommendations changing… and what do you need to know about taking antibiotics before coming to the dental office?
We all know that bacteria — both helpful and harmful types — thrive in many parts of the body, including the mouth. Whenever circumstances make it possible for these microorganisms to enter the bloodstream, there's a slight risk that a bacterial infection may develop. This could occur in many dental procedures — and it could also occur during routine activities like chewing, brushing and flossing. In most cases, the risk is so small that the chance of having a bad reaction to antibiotics (while rare) is far greater than the chance of developing an infection; therefore, antibiotics aren't routinely used.
Some people, however, need to take extra precautions before having dental procedures. If you have been treated for some types of heart disease, or have had certain orthopedic procedures (including total joint replacement), we may advise taking antibiotics to protect against even a remote chance of infection. Recommendations are made on an individual basis, taking into account your medical history and our own clinical experience.
Prophylactic antibiotics might be recommended before dental procedures if you have one or more of the following heart conditions:
If you have undergone a joint replacement procedure, prophylactic antibiotics might be recommended if you also have one or more of the following risk factors:
There are other circumstances where taking prophylactic antibiotics would be a prudent step; there are also a number of situations where these medications might have been recommended in the past, but aren't currently required in all cases. For example, the presence of a benign heart murmur, a pacemaker or defibrillator, and certain heart diseases or congenital defects don't automatically mean that antibiotic prophylaxis will be needed.
In recent years, reports of drug-resistant bacteria and harmful side effects from some medications have increased public awareness of the consequences of overusing antibiotics. Fortunately, new scientific research is helping us make better, evidence-based treatment decisions on antibiotic use. If you have questions about whether you should take antibiotics before your dental procedure, don't hesitate to ask.
New Antibiotic Premedication Guidelines in Dentistry If you have a heart condition or have had joint-replacement surgery, you may be advised to take antibiotics before you have dental work. That's because certain preexisting health conditions may make you more susceptible to infection during a dental procedure. Find out the latest premedication guidelines... Read Article


text:
Sunlight Keeps Baton Rouge Dry
Sunlight Contractors, LLC is the top provider for spray foam insulation services, blown-in cellulose services, all blown-in insulation for residential homes and commercial buildings. We are licensed and certified Spray Foam Installers and Mold Remediation Experts.
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Saving On Energy Bills
Homeowners that insulate and air seal their homes save up to 20% on cooling and heating costs. SPF resists heat transfer far better than most insulation materials. Since SPF insulation reduces air infiltration, it helps prevent the escape and entry of moisture vapor thus reducing the load on cooling and heating system.
Reducing Air Conditioning & Heating Size
Using SPF, you can reduce the size of your HVAC by as much as 35% without losing comfort and efficiency.
Reducing Noise, Drafts, & Increasing Comfort
SPF is quite an effective air barrier. It helps reduce air-borne sound transmission. It is used to prevent drafts from doors, windows, floorboards, and attics thus creating a more comfortable indoor environment.
Commercial Spray Foam Insulation Baton Rouge LA
Impeding The Entry Of Pests & Insects
Using SPF to seal gaps helps create a barrier against pests and insects from outside.
Reducing Air Infiltration That Generates Condensation That Causes Mold Growth
Humidity and moisture in the home can cause mold growth. Cracks and gaps in the building structure as well as the condensation on windows cause high humidity and support the growth of mildew and mold. If left unchecked, mildew and mold growth causes wood to rot. Air sealing the gaps between the living space and attic helps manage humidity and moisture issues.
Sealing Small Cracks To Insulate Large Areas Such As Roofs & Walls
Since SPF is applied on-site, it can better seal and insulate the small cracks common in homes. The application makes expansive surfaces easy to cover in a relatively short period.
We provide service to all of Southeast Louisiana. Our closest locations where we service spray foam and mold remediation:
Baton Rogue Office
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Spray Foam Roofing Baton Rouge, LA
What Should You Expect?
If you would like to have professionals such as Sunlight Contractors come and install SPF you need to know about the kinds of SPF the contractor might use in your home. The following are some important considerations when working with professionals to come to install SPF in your home.
Your Role
Learn About The Product That The Contractor Is Installing In Your Home
If you wish to learn about the products the contractor has chosen for an installation in your home you need to ask many questions. Understand the types of products in the market, their characteristics, and performance. During the job, the contractor can discuss the specific constituents of the materials used to make the foam and will have access to the Safety Data Sheets (SDS) for the product. You can request the contractor to go over the SDS with you if you still have questions about the chemicals mixed to create the foam in Baton Rouge LA.
Roof Insulation Baton Rouge, LA
Being Selective When Choosing Contractors
Some of the things you need to look out for when choosing a contractor are
- Insurance
- Proper training in SPF installation
- Good reputation and references
The contractor should advise you on the following:
- Technical specifications of the products being installed
- Safety precautions
- Where to install the SPF insulation in your home
- What you should expect during every stage of the installation
- Discussing Re-Occupancy Guidance With The Contractor
During the installation, the home will not be occupied. Before commencement of the job, consult the contractor about the amount of time before you and your family can re-enter the house following SPF installation.
Reoccupancy time will depend on several different factors including humidity, SPF formulation, degree of ventilation, temperature, amount of foam applied per volume of space and other variables.
In case you work in a commercial building or live in an apartment complex where SPF insulation is being installed, you should consult with the SPF contractor or building manager about measures to keep occupants from breathing chemical vapors during the installation of the foam.
The Contractor's Role & Responsibilities
Overseeing An Effective & Safe Installation
The contractor will review the entire project with you from beginning to end including the safety measures he or she plans to take on the job. Part of the review may include:
- Marking off the work area
- Clearing the area of pets, children, and other workers without protective gear until the home is safe for reoccupation.
- Addressing ventilation in case of an interior application
- Taking measures to reduce overspray and control dust.
During spraying, the contractor
- Will take necessary precautions to avoid flames or high heat near the application site
- Will limit access to the site to only workers equipped with the right protective gear
To complete the job, the contractor
- Is responsible for thoroughly cleaning the work sit so that unprotected occupants and workers can occupy the building safely.
Following The Right Handling, Storage, and Disposal Practices.
The contractor should be well aware of acceptable workplace practices regarding proper handling, storage, and disposal of partially used or empty SPF products.
The Types Of SPF Insulation & How It Is Applied
You can categorize SPF insulation into two types of products:
- Two-component closed-cell foam
- Two-component open-cell foam
SPF insulation is applied by using two main delivery systems:
- Low-pressure spray foam kits
- High pressure system
SPF Kits:
For medium-sized projects, you have low-pressure two component kits. These are used to seal and insulate medium sized areas around the home including rim joists, crawl spaces, and attics. SPF contractors and weatherization professionals are the ones that primarily use these kits. The products require use of specialized protective equipment.
SPF High-Pressure System:
They typically use 55-gallon drums and are mainly used to insulate larger areas or new construction or during major renovations on roofs and walls. These are intended for professional use as well as the use of specialized protective gear including respirators.
For a standard high-pressure SPF installation, a spray rig that houses the air supply, SPF ingredients, and other items is parked near the building or home to be sprayed. Hoses are then carried into the application area and installers wearing the proper gear spray the foam.
How To Choose A SPF Contractor in Baton Rouge, LA
What Type Of Contractor Should You Consider?
No matter the type of product you would like installed, you will want a contractor that is able to do the job well and safely. Choose a contractor that is trained, knowledgeable, and has experience installing the product. For the high-pressure product, most manufacturers offer or require specialized contractor training. In addition, different trade associations might offer training courses that have certification or accreditation such as the Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance in Baton Rouge LA.
Does The Contractor Have To Be Bonded & Insured?
Some states require contractors to post a surety bond as a legal requirement. Surety bonds have major limitations and typically do not take the place of insurance. The contractor may also need to carry liability insurance. General liability insurance covers bodily injury losses and property damage caused by the contractor that happen due to the contractor's work. It does not cover the cost of repairing, removing or replacing poorly installed insulation by the contractor.
Insurance policies come with limits of both the amount that is payable for a claim and the scope of coverage. They also carry exclusions for particular exposures. Since liability policies differ, you may have to ask a prospective contractor about what his or her policy covers or does not cover. You may request proof of coverage, which is usually in the form of a certificate of insurance. You must also ensure that the contractor's policy has not yet lapsed.
Best Spray Foam Company in Baton Rouge, LA
How Do You Check The Contractor's References?
Most contractors will provide references if you request them to do so. However, these references will probably be only from clients that were pleased with the contractor's work. You can also ask the contractor whether he or she is a member of any trade associations. Membership in a professional trade association is a good sign that the contractor recognizes the responsibilities that come with being a professional.
How Do You Check The Contractor's License?
Most jurisdictions require contractors to have licenses for any construction businesses that offer, advertise, arrange for, or do any alteration, construction, home remodeling, improvement, or repair work. This includes the installation of insulation.
The Baton Rouge LA contractor may need licensing even for small jobs depending on the law of the state. If the contractor holds a license, you need to check with the licensing authority to know if it is current or if there have been any complaints filed. You can find a wealth of information online from licensing authorities. You can also check with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and see whether any complaints have been filed against your chosen contractor.
Does The Contractor Have To Provide A Written Contract? What Should It Include?
Some jurisdictions require that contractors provide a written contract in case the project exceeds a particular sum. Written contracts are always good even when the law does not require them. The contract should outline all details of the agreement between the contractor and yourself about the installation.
Ensure that you read the contract carefully to ensure it is complete and that you understand it. This includes the agreed price, the product being installed, and the duration of the project. Check that the name on the contract is a match to the name in the license record of the contractor.
In case the contractor is providing a warranty, get it in writing as part of the contract. Get to know whether the warranty is offered by the contractor, manufacturer, or both.
SPF insulation installation contractors should make the necessary arrangements for removal of debris, cleanup, including the hauling away of empty or used canisters and drums as part of their completion of the job. You can sometimes include these arrangements as part of a specific contractual requirement.
Will The Contractor Get The Building Permit?
Many remodeling projects and construction of new homes typically requires building permits from the local building department. Note that even though contractors often get permits, it is ultimately the responsibility of the property owner under local laws. Talk to the contractor about who is responsible for getting the permits. Ensure that a final inspection is done once the work is complete.
Do Contractors Offer Rebates Or Incentives For Using SPF Insulation in Baton Rouge LA?
Product manufacturers, utility companies, government agencies, or other sources can offer incentives. The contractor can provide valuable information regarding the available incentive program.
Before The Job Commences, What Else Should You Do?
It is very important that you do a walkthrough with the contractor prior to beginning installation to help the installers find the HVAC system and view the layout as they come up with a ventilation plan. In case the installation is in the interior of a building, confirm with the contractor regarding guidance from the product manufacturer with respect to how long the occupant needs to stay out of the building after completion of the job.
Should You Call The Contractor In Case Any Issues Arise After The Installation?
Yes, the contractor is the first point of contact in case you have any questions after installation. The contractor can also help put you in touch with the manufacturer of the SPF insulation product if issues relating to the product ever arise.
Spray Polyurethane Foam (SPF) is truly a wonderful product that can do great things for your home including insulation, noise reduction, and many more. SPF installation requires the use of specialized equipment and specialized chemicals. This is the reason why it is advisable to use professionals for any kind of SPF insulation.


text:
Peter Zelnick can imagine Zed Industries Inc.'s new thermoforming machine — which forms parts in a vacuum — turning out panels for buildings on Mars.
How about something more down-to-Earth?
* Medical parts thermoformed from exotic new materials.
* Multilayer parts where the layers require different softening-point temperatures, evacuating all trapped air bubbles.
* Accelerated age testing in a laboratory.
* Optics and touch-screen electronics.
Zed Industries calls the new lab machine the Model L-3MA thermoformer. The MA stands for modified atmosphere.
Zelnick said thermoforming in a vacuum uses a fraction of the energy of traditional forming, which has to heat the air. In fact, he said that in most thermoforming machines, a good portion of the heating in most thermoforming ovens comes from hot air transmitting the heat to the sheet, in a convection process.
So Zed got rid of the air, removing the variable of gas that has to be heated.
The L-3MA heats the plastic sheet directly, through infrared radiation. "There isn't any air to mess up the whole process, to absorb the energy. It's going straight into the plastic," he said.
Zelnick explained the technology — and motivation — behind thermoforming in a vacuum during an interview at Zed Industries in Vandalia, north of Dayton, where he is CEO. The innovation technology came about, like many other Zed breakthroughs, to help a customer solve a problem.
Zed already offered a standard, lab-sized L-3. "A client came in and he had an application where he had to heat and form unique materials. And in one case he wanted to form two and three layers of film at the same time. However, the two outer layers processed at a lower temperature than the inner layer," he said. The temperature spread was wide.
"The inside material had a 150-plus-degree difference in softening point [from] the two outer materials. So you can't just heat that with conventional convection in a radiant oven," he said.
Zelnick declined to identify the customer or the application. But the controlled-atmosphere process made good parts from the dissimilar materials, he said. Also, the vacuum sucks out air that otherwise could become trapped between layers and form unwanted bubbles.
The initial Model L-3MA is a shuttle machine. "You load the sheet up, close the door, and it takes about a minute to pump the chamber down. The heaters come up to the temperature that you want to run at. You can change the wavelength coming off the face of the heater, knowing what absorption temperature the resin best absorbs infrared in," Zelnick said. He added that Zed Industries has learned a lot about fine-tuning an IR heating element by developing the new machine.
Now, Zed engineers are working on an inline version of the machine. Used in production, a continuous inline MA thermoformer would exploit the technology's lower energy needs. Zelnick said the trend toward "green" manufacturing by reducing carbon footprint could make the MA process attractive for traditional parts.
The vacuum also pulls any gases out of the part, in effect speeding up the process of off-gassing, to test new materials. "You can age-study that plastic now, because you're accelerating the loss of the plasticizer within the resin while you're forming it," Zelnick said. "So if I want to do age-testing studies, vacuum does more than save me money, it lets me see the actual aging on the sheet while I'm forming it."
Heritage of invention
Zed's thermoforming and packaging machines include form-fill-seal machines, blister sealers, clamshell sealers, medical sealers, skin packers and die-cutting presses.
Today, Zed Industries is run by the Zelnick brothers: Peter is CEO; Mark is president.
The chairman is David Zelnick, their father and a thermoforming pioneer. In the 1950s, selling plastic film for U.S. Rubber Co., he built a small vacuum former using an old freezer compressor and a used oven-heating element. Customers began asking about the machine, and so in 1954, Zelnick and some partners founded Atlas Vac Machine Corp. in Rochester, N.Y.
Peter Zelnick said his father became Kodak Co.'s go-to guy for form-fill-seal and thermoforming machines. He served as Atlas Vac Machine's president until 1964, then spent four years as general manager.
In 1969, David Zelnick and his wife, Helen, founded Zed Industries in Vandalia. One early machine — for packaging pharmaceutical pills in push-through foil — showed how he sometimes was ahead of his time.
"Everybody looked at that and said, 'Whoa, nobody wants to push those meds through that little foil thing. That's crazy! The pharmacist counts those out.' Everybody pooh-poohed it," Peter Zelnick said.
The first machine still is running today, in Arizona, producing kids' makeup kits for Halloween, he said.
"We built machines with less linkage, less moving parts, less to wear out. And everything on a Zed you can buy, for the most part, off the shelf," Zelnick said.
Zed's chain drive has endured. Packaging thermoforming machines use a spikelike chain that pulls the plastic sheet through the forming area. Conventional chains can wear out and need frequent replacement, as the metal links ride on metal rails, he said.
The Zed chain lasts a long time because it is a doublewide pin chain that rides on steel-hardened chain track with cooling lines machined inside. The circulating coolant keeps the track from expanding through heat from the high-speed moving chain, which can throw off the correct indexing.
Zed Industries remains family-owned.
Mark Zelnick attended the University of Utah, where he earned a bachelor's degree in materials science engineering a master's of science in metallurgical engineering. He became Zed's vice president of production, then president in 2003, when the brothers bought the business from their father.
Peter Zelnick has a bachelor's degree in chemistry, ecology and evolutionary biology from the University of Arizona. He worked at aerospace at defense manufacturer McDonnell Douglas, becoming manager of the non-metallic, insulation, adhesives and polymer laboratories. He returned to the family business, and became CEO in 2003.
In his McDonnell Douglas days, Peter Zelnick dreamed of thermoforming in outer space — the ultimate vacuum. He even wrote a paper on the subject. Zed's press release calls the L-3MA "a landmark system in the move to take thermoforming technology out of this world" in a future of "thermoforming resin into sheet and ultimately pressure forming structures in space and other non-Earth environments."
It sounds like something out of The Martian Chronicles.
He elaborated that one day, space explorers could create their own raw material on a planet that has natural gas and carbon dioxide, as precursor ingredients. Solar power would provide an unlimited energy source.
Then you would need a thermoforming machine — a Zed — to form it into building panels.