text:
Friday, January 04, 2008
The coming 2008 dot-com crash
I am only going to make one prediction, but one with broad impact. We will see a dot-com crash in 2008. It will be more prolonged and deeper than the crash of 2000.
The crash will be driven by a recession and prolonged slow growth in the US. Global investment capital will flee to quality, ending the speculative dumping of cash on Web 2.0 startups.
Venture capital firms will seek to limit their losses by forcing many of their portfolio companies to liquidate or seek a buyout. Buyout prospects will be poor, however, as the cash rich companies find themselves in a buyers market and let those seeking a savior come face-to-face with the spectre of bankruptcy before finally buying up the assets on the cheap.
Startups that managed to get cash before the bubble collapses will have a cash horde, but will find little opportunity to rest on it. Most startups will find their revenue models were unrealistic and will rapidly have to seek change. Many will jump over to advertising, but the advertising market will have constricted. Bigger businesses will seek to drive out the new entrants, and online advertising will become a cutthroat business with little profits to be found. Others startups may shift toward licensing and development deals for bigger companies, but will find their investors impatient now that the promised $500M startup has become a $10M company.
The big players will not be immune from this contagion. Google, in particular, will find its one-trick pony lame, with the advertising market suddenly stagnant or contracting and substantial new competition. The desperate competition with dwindling opportunity will drive profits in online advertising to near zero. Google and Yahoo will find their available cash dropping and will do substantial layoffs.
Unfortunately, this scenario has privacy implications as well. Much like we saw after the 2000 crash, it is likely that those with little to lose will attempt scary new forms of advertising. The Web will become polluted with spyware, intrusiveness, and horrible annoyances. None of this will work, of course, and there will be lawsuits and new privacy legislation, but we will have to endure it while it lasts.
It is a dire scenario, but one that looks much like what we saw after 2000. That was a much smaller crash without the fuel from broader problems in the US economy, but we still had investment capital shut off for a few years, most startups shut down, and the remaining startups shift business models. We also saw a dramatic rise in pop-up advertising and spyware.
The crash of 2008 will be similar to 2000 but deeper. We all will have to weather the storm.
50 comments:
SO I guess Findory was ahead of the curve here too :)
- January 4, 2008 at 9:31 AM
- Jason M. Adams said...
Great post! I've been thinking the coming bursting of bubble 2.0 will be soon and horrible, so I enjoyed reading someone with more knowledge of the financial aspects.
I can't agree more re: popups and spyware. We're probably going to see some "interesting" new threats as well. Desperation spurs inspiration. - January 4, 2008 at 9:34 AM
- Daniel Lemire said...
I cannot agree. It seems to me that most of the Web 2.0 is already in the hands of Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft. There are exceptions, like Technorati and Twitter, but they should do fine. The small fishes may die out, but they amount to little, either in advertising dollars or mindshare.
For the large players, I see no reason for their revenues to drop. If anything, they may benefit if venture capitalists bail out. - January 4, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Yet another clueless, idiot post from a clueless idiot. Just keep to running silly startups into the ground one at a time, buddy.
- January 4, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Yeah. This is the classic, "I failed at my start-up, so everyone else needs to fail too" post.
This is like when a VC firm fails to raise their next fund because all their previous investments turned our poorly, and they proclaim that the VC model is broken.
Nice work Greg. Quite self serving. - January 4, 2008 at 10:35 AM
- Webomatica said...
How about companies selling their user data as an asset ... seem to recall that happened during web 1.0 too.
- January 4, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Well, I just hope that it turns out you're just another Chicken Little. But, I can't help but think that *some* over hyped companies are going to suffer.
- January 4, 2008 at 10:53 AM
- Greg Linden said...
Hi, Brad. I am not sure why the ad hominem attack is necessary here. You may disagree with the analysis -- in particular, I think there is a lot of debate right now about whether the US will actually go into a recession or manage to escape it -- but name-calling does not seem like much of an argument.
Anonymous, I am not sure why this is self-serving. The upcoming crash will benefit no one, especially not people dependent on the tech sector like me, and does nothing to absolve me of the blame for a startup which failed well before the crash. If you disagree, could you clarify please? - January 4, 2008 at 11:02 AM
You might be right; you might be wrong. (Personally I do expect a recession, but this scenario sounds much too dire for me.)
But I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not citing specific data to support your case. Otherwise it's just sheer throw-a-dart-at-a-dartboard speculation. - January 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM
- MakkhiChoose said...
I find the idea of the advertising model commodifying, and even stagnating, quite plausible. However, is it possible that there will be a proliferation of start-ups despite a bleak financial scenario because of the increased ease of getting things up and running (because of Amazon WS and the like)? This could also mean that noise-free alternatives to online pollutants will sprout soon and act as deterrents to the uptake of such behavior.
Also, JP Morgan just came out with a supremely bullish 312-page outlook for the net. Do you think they are simply interpolating from web investment trends that are lagging indicators of the global economic scenario?
(Here's a link to the JP Morgan report https://mm.jpmorgan.com/stp/t/c.do?i=2082C-248&u=a_p*d_170762.pdf*h_-3ohpnmv ) - January 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Yeah. This is the classic, "I failed at my start-up, so everyone else needs to fail too" post.
Greg's post may be polarizing, but I don't think that it is self-serving. I can't put words into Greg's mouth, but my guess is that, having been an entrepreneur, and actually tried something that most of us never get up off our duffs and try, he might have some insights that most of us do not have.
Even so, he is not the only one to worry about so much of Web 2.0 resting on the foundation of Google AdSense. That platform will not continue to pay out forever; it will not continue to grow forever. And when it does stop growing, goodbye to all those startups based on it. If Google has no growth, then startups based on Google have no growth. And who is going to invest in that?
I cannot agree. It seems to me that most of the Web 2.0 is already in the hands of Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft.
Seriously? Most of Web 2.0 is already in their hands? So essentially what you are saying is that innovation is done. There is no new Web 2.0 innovation left to happen, because the big three have already bought it all up?
Well, if that's true, then Greg is even more right. You've proclaimed him right: There is going to be a crash in Web 2.0 dotcom startups. Simply for the fact that there is nothing left to be invented. All innovation is already in the hands of GYM. - January 4, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Great post Greg - I agree completely. Although I think it's not going to be a dot-com crash, per se, but a large and deep recession driven by the US consumer finally running out of "gas".
The last dot-com crash dried up a lot of paper money, but didn't effect most consumers (outside of those of us employed in tech). Once the American consumer is truly "tapped out", the reckoning will be far worse.
The disappearence of Meebo, Digg and whatever else Robert Scoble and Michael Arrington are breathlessly hyping will be the least of our worries.
As someone who lived through the dot-com crash and got a little singed, I can admit feeling a little Schadenfreude as the newly-minted Google-zillionaires find their stock options worth 1/10th of what they are now.
To end on an optimistic note, I think periodic "corrections" are necessary for the economy, and that we will end up on the other side in a good position going forward. But I'm hedging my bets with large cash positions, foreign investments and working for a non-startup, non-real-estate, non-tech employer. - January 4, 2008 at 12:05 PM
- Greg Linden said...
Thanks, Chaitanya, for the link to the JP Morgan report.
I think that JP Morgan not only assumes the US will not have a recession, but also that we will have reasonably strong growth. See Table 5 with the estimates of US growth in 2008 of 2.5% and 2009 of 3.1%.
It certainly is true that there is a fair amount of debate about whether the US will enter a recession, how prolonged the slow growth will be, and how much it will impact the global economy. My prediction of a 2008 dot-com crash largely depends on a US recession that is severe and long. - January 4, 2008 at 12:11 PM
- bizQuirk said...
The Bay Area will garner fame yet again for the redundant capital placed in YAVSS and YASN.
you know, yet another social network, yet another video sharing site, - January 4, 2008 at 12:21 PM
No way: the dot com bubble had so many more weak companies with VC money, this time around its an order of magnitude smaller (in terms of number of risky dot.com companies).
Yes recession, but tech is actually marginally brighter than the retail and housing sectors. Also I believe the tech players are much more aware of bubble scenarios than last time so there might not be such a implosion. - January 4, 2008 at 12:27 PM
A bit doom view of 2008, but I'm also on the camp of a little burst would be better on the long term.
I much rather a recession with sanity than a insane bubble. - January 4, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Greg - AMEN - your commentary will be considered brilliant in the fall of 2008!
I lived the run-up into 2000 - on Wall St. managing money for the entreprenuers in that wave - I called the top and left in the spring of 2000. Most thought I was crazy too - wish for their sake I wrong - but was not be. Old saying on Wall Street - bad markets kill all - even the good ones! - January 4, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Greg, Great post. I am in the bear-camp as well (my company is doing well, but I expect us to do less well, and we are preparing for a nuclear winter).
My own reason is that the "recovery" from 2001-2 bust was a sham one, created by the easy-money policies of the US Federal Reserve (and other central banks around the world). The piper must be paid, and I think it will happen over the next few years.
For those who think "it can't happen", think of what happened in Japan post 1990.
Japan was as much the tech leader in 1990 as the US is today. They were kings of autos, consumer electronics (high tech at that time), robotics ... they still are leaders in many of these areas, but that didn't save them from a 15 year serious stagnation. - January 4, 2008 at 1:11 PM
- Daniel Lemire said...
jeremy: What Greg is predicting is that the whole Web 2.0 industry will collapse because the advertising dollars and the VC funding will dry up.
I say that even if VC funding dries up, the Web 2.0 will do just fine in 2008. I also do not think advertising will dry up in 2008. - January 4, 2008 at 1:22 PM
- Joining Dots said...
Just my 2ps worth, but I don't think we will see the same sort of dot-com crash because the level of investment in daft ideas isn't there.
But I do think we will see a dot-com miss. A start-up that grows into a giant, turns down $bn offers thinking it will be the next Microsoft or Google. Only to discover that celebrity doesn't last and its fans move on, the offers dry up, the advertisers leave and the company becomes worthless. - January 4, 2008 at 2:07 PM
- Andrew Goodman said...
While predictions are for fools, let me join the fool party.
On at least the Google part of this, there is almost 0% chance of your scenario playing out.
How do you figure that profit margins can dwindle anywhere near zero on Google's paid search ads, half of which show up on Google Search and related Google properties? Current profit margins on this are high, in the 40%+ range. Even if click prices finally level off, that doesn't mean profit margins go down from 40 to 0. Maybe a few points at best.
Google risks overspending on unprofitable new ventures, sure, but the $10-15 billion paid search ad market isn't about to collapse in the way that online ads did in 2000, because adoption is built on a broad base of measurable performance, and the law of large numbers here stems from the wide variety of verticals and keywords that have their "own" auction dynamics that are relatively isolated from one another. Yes, there are recessions and yes of course you can get a cascade effect, but just because the housing bubble bursts doesn't mean millions of profitable businesses shut down their ads. There are plenty of businesses seeking to hop into the auction at favorable rates, so that would just open up opportunity for them.
And finally, much of Google's growth over the past three years has been international. There's a long way to run yet in these markets - click prices are screaming bargains due to slow adoption in many countries. - January 4, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Greg: What are your thoughts about Health2.0 in your scenario -- and the increasing transitioning of management of consumer healthcare online -- the ad dollars that will follow it despite the overall economic downturn, and the boomers ascent into third age w/the gift of historically unprecedented longevity?
- January 4, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Question: Is there *really* that much VC floating around right now in startups with business plans that don't involve profit? Are there really that many common people (as there were in 2000) that have all of their investments tied up foolishly in 2.0 startups? Did we learn nothing from 2000?
Personally I don't know anyone who has sold their mother's house to buy stock in Web 2-point-anything, unlike 2000 when everyone and their mother was buying blindly into the rush.
I don't think its as bad as greg thinks it will be, although we are certainly not in happy-go-lucky financial times by any means. In fact, the tone of this article reminds me a lot of the fearmongering of Y2K and bird flu predictors. Remember bird flu? 3 years ago it was supposed to wipe out, conservatively, 60 Million people. We were all supposed to be sequestered in our little diseased valleys, waiting for death, according to the most AND the least informed experts. (It may still, who knows, but for now I'm OK if you're OK...)
And Hmph. Y2K anyone? Funny — despite the multitude of profiteering blatherers that predicted electronic collapse, computers have been working for 8 years now since then, with little more than a belch, even though according to all of the loudest experts they were all supposed to implode at the stroke of millennial midnight, people were supposed to start secret fist fighting clubs to feel alive, and the shortsighted nature of CS majors in using a binary system was supposed to push Reset on all of the records at credit card institutions.
I'm still waiting…. - January 4, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Shit, the end of the world. I think I'll kill myself now.
- January 4, 2008 at 3:05 PM
I've long thought that online advertising is due for a shake-out, if not a retrenchment. There is a lot of experimental ad money sloshing around out there. A recession would have a significant impact since marketing dollars are among the first to go when times are tight. That said, I wonder if the AdWords model is at-risk. Pay-per-click requires very little up-front investment for the marketer, other than the cost to manage the campaigns. In fact, I imagine that some marketers might move to PPC (and Google, Yahoo, MSN) and more performance-focused advertising because of the lower up-front cost.
- January 4, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Daniel: What Greg is predicting is that the whole Web 2.0 industry will collapse because the advertising dollars and the VC funding will dry up.
I don't think this is exactly what Greg is predicting. The collapse, yes. But did he say that the "advertising dollars will dry up"? No. To be exact, Greg said:
Google, in particular, will find its one-trick pony lame, with the advertising market suddenly stagnant or contracting and substantial new competition. The desperate competition with dwindling opportunity will drive profits in online advertising to near zero.
So Greg isn't talking about "drying up" (disappearing) so much as he is talking about "stagnating". Meaning: Not advancing or developing. Advertisers will still exist. There just won't be the kind of growth we've seen. Things will flatten. Or if they don't flatten, increased competition will squeeze profit margins to near zero, and profits will flatten.
Not dry up. But flatten. No more growth.
And when advertising stagnates, and profits flatten, then people start to look around and say, "Now, why are we valuing Google at $150 billion? When they are only making $6 billion every year?"
That $150bn valuation was predicated on a continued growth market in advertising. As long as Goog's ad revenue increases, the Goog's valuation remains high. (My numbers may not be exactly correct, but they are ballpark-appropriate to the point.)
Now all that has to happen is for advertising to stagnate for three quarters in a row. Not "dry up", but stagnate. Once that happens, Google's valuation drops from $150bn to (let's say) $15bn. Google won't become completely worthless, because they'll still be making money. They just won't be increasing the amount of money that they are making, so valuation will come down again.
So let us imagine now: with Google's valuation at $15bn, are they going to go out and buy the next Facebook for $15bn? No. Are they even going to buy the next YouTube for $1.5bn? Resounding no.
And when Google (and Yahoo, etc) is no longer there, to buy all these Web 2.0 companies (YouTube, Flickr, Picasa, Keynote/Google Earth, Blogger, etc.), there goes the exit strategy for the VCs that are now investing in these new startups. No more "flip to the big three" exit strategy means no more VC funding. Especially when the only other business strategy of these Web 2.0 companies was Google advertising.. the stagnation of which is Greg's predicted cause of this whole thing in the first place.
Advertising dollars may end up never stagnating. But if they do, Greg's scenario seems completely reasonable.
If you have got a reason why Web 2.0 will continue to boom, even if advertising dollars stagnate, I would love to hear it. That's not sarcasm; I'm serious. - January 4, 2008 at 3:50 PM
By the way, Kevin Lee discusses both sides of the PPC ad recession argument
here. - January 4, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Guys, this is a JOKE! Read carefully: "Google, in particular, will find its one-trick pony lame, with the advertising market suddenly stagnant or contracting and substantial new competition."
This is a joke. I don't quite understand why someone would post something that sounds more like a April 1st joke in January, but who knows, this could be some kind of weird tradition we all don't yet know! ;) - January 4, 2008 at 5:22 PM
No one can predict the future. Humans suffer from a "prediction addiction". Even if you get it right, it's by change. Predicting doom is pretty easy since being wrong is to the benefit of others.
Odds shouldn't be confused with knowledge or experience. ~ Mr. Shepard - January 4, 2008 at 7:53 PM
I doubt it will be worse but I can't see how tech will weather the coming recession. Today's action in the high beta Nasdaq companies was very telling of whats to come for all tech companies especially the tiny startup with a few bucks in venture capital. The way dumb money has been thrown at dumb companies over the last few years definitely reminds me of what we saw leading up to 2000.
Just short all the mo mo tech stocks (and Chinese stocks) that tripled and quadrupled over the past 2 year sand you will weather the storm just fine :-) Cheers. - January 4, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Ballzy call and unfortunately you may be exactly right.
- January 4, 2008 at 9:12 PM
This is exactly the scenario the more sober business minded folks are predicting. VCs are telling their companies to hold off hiring for Q1 as labor will be MUCH cheaper once the magnitude of the crash becomes evident. Many small companies are drooling over the coming fire sale of assets that they can scoop up rather than build. 2 dot 0, the end is near...
- January 4, 2008 at 10:39 PM
- total-conversion said...
No crash in sight, business automation is one of the very few investments with short-term ROI, and that is really what Web 2.0 is about. The original bubble bursting was the market punishing tech, far more than tech companies failing to create markets. The attacks are always against the companies that spent money like it was water, and had nothing to sell. Irrational exuberance in the market was to blame for this, not the vision that the web could be the next gold rush. The market turning on the tech companies lead us into a tech dark age, where MicroSoft cemented their position, and product quality was at an all-time low, (everyone will use Internet Explorer, and we won't fix any exploitable security holes ever). This is the same noise that has hounded Google and the web for the last 8 years. Google's all time high stock price will be in the third quarter of 2007, RedHat will make money, VCs will continue to try to throw money at start-ups they can't understand, and lots of them will go under. Nothing more to see here, move along.
- January 4, 2008 at 11:27 PM
I *highly* doubt that a Web 2.0 bubble/crash, if it occurs, will be similar but deeper than 2000.
The shear amount of money invested in 2000, as well as well as the size of the start-up's that failed, are so much larger than they are today.
Start-up's today are very much aware of what happened in 2000, spending money much more wisely, as the $ in starting a start-up goes a lot further due to open source, etc...
The recession of 2008, if it happens (two consecutive quarters of decreased GDP), will be due to the housing downturn and credit crunch, not a speculative NASDAQ bubble based on your mom & pop investing in IPO's in companies that they heard as a stock tip but had no idea what the company did.
Many web 2.0 start-ups will and should fail. Most start-ups, by definition, will fail. But a web 2.0 downturn will be a lot more gradual than 1.0, IMHO. - January 4, 2008 at 11:46 PM
- Piyush Pant said...
The reason this will not happen is the first law of bubbles - they are only clear in hindsight. This time, warnings of "bubbles" are everywhere. There is already too much fear and uncertainty in the markets for this to play out. 2000 was very different. There was widespread, unqualified bullishness and optimism about tech and the economy everywhere and if someone had put up a post like yours then, they would have been vilified and attacked far more. At the moment, almost everyone thinks there will be a US recession, the markets are extremely jittery and the stock market is not overvalued by any reasonable metric - unlike 2000 when the S&P 500 was trading at a PE of 30, double what it is today.
So there won't be a crash. There MIGHT be a US recession. But as someone has pointed out, companies like Google now get 50% or more of their revenues from outside the US anyway. The bottom line is all the things you mention are already "in the price".
This doesn't mean we will not see a flushing out of over optimistic web-2.0 type startups whose key proposition is an impressive slogan but in the wider context that would neither be unfortunate or particularly traumatic for the sector. - January 5, 2008 at 2:14 AM
I'm from and in Singapore reading this and do appreciate both side of the views. I raised a few mil back in 1999 and our startup did not even crawl out of R&D when it hit. After a few years of personal difficulties, I'm up again on another startup that's about to launch its beta. The difference now is, I only needed less than 1/10th to get things up as compared to y2k. Back then, nobody expected user-generated contents to be what they are today amongst other things. Many things about the future of the web was based on even more predictions that was not based much on anything other than gut-feel. Ppl invested almost blindly seeing the early ones went public. Warren Buffet did not touch a bit of all these. Many techies also jumped in as fast as they jumped out of the bandwagon when they figured the wheels are wearing out.
Bubbles are always founded upon an aggregate of hyped up predictions.
If innovation is dead, the need to market anything will be dead, and so along with any form of advertising. New innovations has made possible how ppl communicate today. Blogging, socializing the way we are now are lightyears ahead of y2k and will continue to be. Internet spending habits are growing as well.
So I think there will be a correction but ppl today are more realistic and wiser with what to expect of internet startups.
Unless there is a real bubble, then there is something to burst. Yet another social network coming up is not a bubble. Many of these serve their micro purpose. Those that don't simply close up and I bet none of us here even get to hear of it at all.
Bros, innovation was probably the best invention of time itself beside beer. If there is a burst, good too. It shall breed even better startups in a couple of year's time. The internet is brutal enough as it is today. It'll take a world war to burst and crash the internet. Consider this as well, the US alone is just part of the Internet, not THE internet. - January 5, 2008 at 4:50 AM
Jeremy: Maybe web2.0 will die, but comes web3.0. Supply and demand. The many new eyeballs around the world sprouting from every new born that comes on the Internet each and every other year does not depend on advertising dollars.
With only 5% of adsense users making more than $500/mth, and PPC going higher than a dollar, new ventures may have to look at alternatives other than Google Adwords to stick their heads above the crowd. Are there other avenues? Of course. Just not as silly as throwing thousands of adwords dollars and seeing dust.
I think "whether Google's Ads model will burst" might make a more interesting topic. Searching google isn't saving ppl time these days. I go to user-generated bookmarks and get what I'm looking for faster and with more quality compared with what I get from Google. Have you noticed the same of yourself? - January 5, 2008 at 5:10 AM
Maybe web2.0 will die, but comes web3.0.
Oh, I am not denying that. I certainly believe that these things are cyclic. I was only saying that Greg's predictions, for Web 2.0, do not sound as outlandish as some of the other commenters were claiming.
Are there other avenues? Of course.
So, what other avenues? Subscriptions? I thought one of the principal foundations of Web 2.0 was that people are unwilling to fork over real cash for their online services. Will that change? Will the age-old, elusive dream of micropayments finally catch on?
I think "whether Google's Ads model will burst" might make a more interesting topic.
By "whether Google's ad model will burst", do you mean really burst? As in, fall apart? Or do you just mean stagnate/flatten/slow down? Yes, that would be an interesting discussion to have.
Searching google isn't saving ppl time these days...Have you noticed the same of yourself?
I think I have a different online searching behavior than most people. That should be the thread of another entire discussion, also. - January 5, 2008 at 11:34 AM
- payne92 said...
I don't agree.
Bubble 2.0 will burst, but the fundamentals are much, much different this time around: customer behavior, ad spending, shift of off-line spending, broadband penetration, AJAX/Flash capabilities for better user experiences, video adoption, etc.
Also, more of the entrepreneurial action is happening outside of traditional VC. - January 6, 2008 at 12:14 PM
- Marathoners said...
will there be a widespread crash which engulfs google as well? probably not. as "lame" as their "one trick pony" might be, google's ad engine is so much more effective than print advertising that dollars will continue to flow there.
i recently ran a test for www.opinionsource.com on google adwords using both online keywords and google's new print ad option. the print ad was 3x more expensive and yielded no results. the online keywords continue to be very effective.
in terms of startups, the main palyers who are vulnerable are the vc's, not the startups. why?
it costs less and less money every day to launch a net startup. lots of companies are starting up with a few 100K.
when you run a vc you want to raise bigger and bigger funds to put more money to work and have more fees. but that does not work in the land of cheap startups.
moreover, lots of successful entrepreneurs are now funding startups directly, supplanting the vc's in some cases.
vc's will have to get a lot more active in seeking out entrepreneurs beyond the few hundred people who keep cycling through many of the startups.
if they succeed it will be good for innovation. if not, it will be a tough time to be sitting there with lots of capital and nowhere to invest it wisely. - January 7, 2008 at 3:20 AM
- Socratees said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- January 7, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Well, considering the outcome of your 2006 predictions, I am not sure why would want to take another stab at this... I mean, controversy and related web buzz aside.
I think most Web 2.0 companies and VC remember the crash of 2000 and learned much from it which has prevented the same mistakes.
I seriously doubt that we will see a crash in 2008, and even more I am very confident that it would not be worse than the one in 2000. - January 11, 2008 at 12:33 PM
There will be no dot-com crash in 2008, because the web 2.0 revolution is still growing. Plenty of profits are being made. The web 2.0 economy is growing, but people outside the industry just don't know that. Web applications have grown very powerful and complex. People who left web in 2000 to jump on the real-estate band wagon can't get back to web. The learning curve is much to high to catch up. The web 2.0 engineers who stuck with tech through good times and bad find their salaries rising higher and higher because their skill have "evolved" to a higher more advanced plane. I am proud to be a web head and my ever increasting salary proves it. If you've stayed with tech you are in for a big treat. Your salary will go up and housing is going to crash. You'll be a home owner before you know it, buying a million dollar home in the bay area for $300k. WOOT. PEACE OUT. -Anonymous Web Developer
- January 14, 2008 at 11:57 PM
- Dave said...
"Even so, he is not the only one to worry about so much of Web 2.0 resting on the foundation of Google AdSense. That platform will not continue to pay out forever; it will not continue to grow forever."
This is a very important point in my opinion. The people saying plenty of web2.0 startups are making profit - where is that profit coming from besides advertising?
I'm quite interested in the microcosm that is the facebook bubble to be honest :) That should be interesting to watch. - January 18, 2008 at 5:41 AM
- Anil said...
I wasn't "in" the last dotcom crash, so I can't really draw a lot of parallels or differences, but, it seems like the scenario this time around is a heck of a lot different. I agree there are a lot of startup's out there that neither have a strong technology foundation nor a solid, long-term, recession-safe revenue model. But, at the same time, it seems like many of the big players that are big now, endured the last one when they were more "startup-ish" and shouldn't have much problem this time around. That said, "getting affected" by the slowdown is a very relative term. If google was "affected" then, it would very well have meant the end for them, but, now, if it is "affected^10" it will probably cause a few lay-off's and loss of "glow"... but, will continue to be around. I guess slowdowns might be a part of the "company sobering" process?
On a slightly sepaarte note, I am kinda puzzled by the sequence of events in this recession, as compared to the previous. For one, in the last while the recession in the economy led to the crash of the housing market (and the subsequent "super-inflation" from '00 to '05), this one seems to have been initiated by the crappy housing market. The tech sector on the other hand, isn't as inflated (in terms of stock) prices as it was in the last dotcom bust. - January 22, 2008 at 4:48 PM
You're rihgt on this one. Only I think its going to be worse-- we're not facing a recession, we're facing a depression, and the USD will lose %50 of its value very quickly, along with massive structural problems in this country which will quickly become a global phenomena.
We're going to quite literally get served teh bill we've been putting off since 1915.
And of course, as in the last depression, the politicians will print money like crazy and try to "solve it" and in the process make it deeper and worse (and cause the USD to drop probably another %50 over the next 4 years.)
A $100,000 car will be relatively cheap well before 2015, but nobody will be able to afford it. - February 11, 2008 at 12:44 AM
- Christopher said...
Reality and fiction meet once again?
Good job on that one. - October 22, 2008 at 1:09 PM
- Talent_Broker said...
Must make you feel, while disheartened at the state of the economy, just a little bit happy to have silenced all of your critics on this post. Looks like you were dead on, save the Google layoffs.
- January 8, 2009 at 8:20 AM
- Greg Linden said...
Certainly not happy, no. Unfortunately, it does look like the prediction was mostly correct.
Google has done substantial layoffs of contractors, so I think that part of the prediction was accurate too.
There are some other parts of it, such as a steep decline in venture capital and online advertising, that are still playing out into 2009, so it might have been not entirely correct to predict that all of this would happen in 2008. It's awfully hard to get the timing right on these kinds of things. - January 8, 2009 at 8:27 AM
Greg, I do not think it was the dot-com bust as you predicted.
Had you said that the US economy will suffer and as a result will take down web companies I would have agreed.
I read your post today and a lot has happened since then but it was always clear from second half of 2008 that the sub-prime crisis and resultant credit crunch would affect most industries.
The start-up costs in these days are very low compared to what they were in 1999-2000 and I would assume that the VCs would have smartened up from 2000 experience to do some due diligence before investing in any company. I know back in 2000, any dude could come up with any idea and people would be suckers for it.
One good thing that the 2000 did to tech is it established internet infrastructure from which we are benefiting now. I believe there are still a lot of opportunities out there for web companies.
Facebook actually became profitable during the great recession. - September 17, 2009 at 2:27 PM


text:
Matt's still out sick, so it'll be me and Tracie today. One of the things I'll be doing is responding to an email from a young atheist viewer in Italy, who's asked for help in arguments he's having with a Christian professor. I thought this one would be fun to smash live for all to see, instead of just via email response. The professor makes statements in his email to this viewer reflecting such poor thinking that, if the educational system in Italy is so bad that a man this stupid can achieve a career in academia, then it frankly makes Texas look not so bad.
See you on UStream in about 4 hours! Consider this post an open discussion thread on today's show.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Sophrony (Sakharov)
Saint Sophrony, was best known as the disciple and biographer of St Silouan the Athonite and compiler of St Silouan's works, and as the founder of the Patriarchal Stavropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist in Tolleshunt Knights, Maldon, Essex, England.
Early Life
On September 23, 1896, Sergei Symeonovich Sakharov was born to Orthodox parents in Russia. As a child, Sergei would pray daily, later recalling that he would pray for 45 minutes without stress. Even as a child, Sergei experienced the Uncreated Light. He read widely, including such Russian greats as Gogol, Turgenev, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky and Pushkin.
Due to great artistic talent, Sergei studied at the Academy of Arts between 1915 and 1917 and then at the Moscow School of Painting, Sculpture and Architecture between 1920 and 1921. Sergei used art as a "quasi-mystical" means "to discover eternal beauty", "breaking through present reality...into new horizons of being." Later, this would help him to differentiate between human intellectual light and God's Uncreated Light.
It was around the time of his study at the Moscow School that Sergei would see Christianity's focus on personal love as being necessarily finite; he fell away from the Orthodoxy of his youth and delved into Indian mystical religions based on the impersonal Absolute.
In 1921, Sergei left Russia, partly to continue his artistic career in Western Europe, and partly because he was not a Marxist. After first going to Italy, he went to Berlin, and then settled in Paris in 1922.
Sergei's 1922 arrival in Paris lent itself to artistic exhibitions of Sergei's works, which attracted the attention of the French media. However, he was growing increasingly frustrated by the inability of art to express purity, and however much he tried he couldn't escape this reality. He also grew to see that rational knowledge was entirely unable to provide an answer to the problem of death.
In 1924, Sergei came to the realization that Christ's precept to love God with all of one's being was not merely a psychological thing, but ontological; that this total love was the only way to relate to God; and that love had to be a personal thing by definitional necessity. On Holy and Great Saturday of that year, he returned to Christianity. He experienced the Uncreated Light in a strength unmatched to the end of his life and, as a result, distanced himself from his artwork.
Sergei then became among the first students of the St. Sergius Orthodox Theological Institute in Paris. He was lectured by Fr Sergius Bulgakov and Nicholas Berdyaev, but while both influenced Sergei, problems with each (Bulgakov's sophiology and Berdyaev's anti-asceticism) limited the influence they had on the future Elder.
In 1925, finding formal theological study to be inherently unfulfilling, Sergei left the Institute and Paris to become a monk on Mount Athos.
Mount Athos
Sergei arrived at Mt Athos in 1926, where he entered the Russian Orthodox Monastery of St. Panteleimon with the intent of learning how to pray and to have the right attitude towards God. He was tonsured with the name of Sophrony. In 1930, Fr Sophrony was ordained to the diaconate by St Nicolai (Velimirovic) of Zicha, and he became a disciple of St Silouan the Athonite, who would prove to be Fr Sophrony's greatest and life-long influence. St Silouan had no formal system of theology, being largely uneducated, but his life exuded theology. This is what taught Fr Sophrony, and what Fr Sophrony would later systematize.
Between 1932 and 1946, Fr Sophrony exchanged letters with Fr David Balfour, a British spy and a Catholic who converted to Orthodoxy. These letters revealed Fr Sophrony's knowledge of many Fathers of the Church, and they forced Fr Sophrony to articulate his theological thought and to demonstrate the differences between Western and Eastern thought. Many of Fr Sophrony's later thoughts would arise out of the same topics addressed in this correspondence.
On 24 September 1938, St. Silouan reposed in the Lord. Following his spiritual father's instructions, Father Sophrony left the monastery grounds to reside in the Athonite desert: first at Karoulia, then at a cave near St Paul's Monastery. His residence in this desert lasted World War II's duration, 1939-1945, and it proved to be a time of such intense prayer that Father Sophrony's health was affected. This taught him the interdependence of all humanity. In 1941, Elder Sophrony was ordained to the priesthood. He became a spiritual father to many Athonite monks.
Paris revisited
There are a number of possible reasons as to why Elder Sophrony left Mt Athos. It may have been due to his deteriorating health, or to publish St Silouan's works, or to complete his theological education; it may simply have been due to the problems of being a non-Greek on Mt Athos after the close of World War II. Nonetheless, Elder Sophrony felt compelled to move to Paris, where Balfour helped him gain a passport. The faculty of St Sergius Institute allowed Elder Sophrony to sit the examinations of the whole course and provided for his needs; however, upon his arrival, the faculty insisted that Elder Sophrony deny, by silence, the grace present in the Moscow Patriarchate. Elder Sophrony refused to do so and therefore did not reenter the Institute. Elder Sophrony settled in Russian House, an old-age home, in St Genevieve-des-Bois, where he assisted the local priest and acted as the father confessor. He had a major operation on a stomach ulcer.
The next year, Elder Sophrony produced the first mimeographed edition of Staretz Silouan on hand-roneo. Within this text, Elder Sophrony outlines St Silouan's principles of theology, and he explains many fundamental concepts, among them prayer for the whole world, God-forsakenness and the idea of all humanity being interconnected.
1950 sees Elder Sophrony working with Vladimir Lossky on the Messager de l'Exarchat du Patriarche Russe en Europe Occidentale, which he did until 1957. Lossky influenced Elder Sophrony's thought on many contemporary issues while complementing Elder Sophrony's work on Trinitarian thought and its application to the Church and humanity; however, Lossky would not talk about a deified human nature, nor about the idea of God-forsakenness in a positive view, as Elder Sophrony did.
In 1952, Elder Sophrony produced a second edition, professionally done, of Staretz Silouan, bringing much fame to both St Silouan and Elder Sophrony. Based on Lossky's criticism that he could find no theological value in the saint's works, Elder Sophrony included a theological introduction to St Silouan's writings.
Essex, England
By 1958, Elder Sophrony had a number of people living near him, seeking the monastic life. A property at Tolleshunt Knights, Maldon, Essex, England was inspected, and the next year the Community of St John the Baptist was formed at this site, under the omophorion of Metropolitan Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh. The monastery had both monks and nuns, something that has continued to the present, and originally had six members. In 1965, the monastery would move under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, adding the title 'Patriarchal' to its name. Later, the Ecumenical Patriarchate elevated the monastery to 'Stavropegic'.
In 1973, a more complete translation of the life of St Silouan, under the title Monk of Mt Athos, was published, followed by the publication of Wisdom of Mt Athos, the writings of St Silouan. Elder Sophrony seemed to move to his own works after this, publishing His Life is Mine in 1977 and We Shall see Him As He Is in 1985. This last book, a very frank, open spiritual autobiography, was published to mixed reviews: where the West generally enjoyed the book, the Russians generally criticized it. Some of the criticism was so stinging that it, along with increasing illness, discouraged Elder Sophrony from writing again.
In 1987, the Ecumenical Patriarchate glorified St Silouan the Athonite, no doubt assisted by his fame from Elder Sophrony's works.
Events of and after his repose
The monastery had been informed that the only way that it could bury people on its property was to build an underground crypt. Proceeding then to build it, Elder Sophrony, now of advanced years, said that he would not repose until the crypt was ready. Later, on having received news that the expected completion date was July 12, 1993, Elder Sophrony stated that he "would be ready". Elder Sophrony reposed on July 11th. His funeral and burial took place on the 14th, attended by monastics from around the world. At the time of Fr Sophrony's repose, there were 25 monastics in the monastery, a number that has remained steady since then.Mother Elizabeth, the eldest nun, reposed soon after, on July 24th. This was in accordance with Elder Sophrony's words that he would repose first, and she would repose soon after.
On Prayer, a book containing Elder Sophrony's writings on prayer, particularly the Jesus Prayer, was published posthumously.
On November 27, 2019, the Ecumenical Patriarchate proclaimed the glorification of Elder Sophrony as a saint of the Orthodox Church.
- The Undistorted Image: Staretz Silouan, 1866-1938, 1948, 1952. Faith Press, 1958 (ISBN B0007IXVB0).
- The Monk of Mount Athos: Staretz Silouan 1866-1938, Mowbray, 1973 (ISBN 0264646185). St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1997 (ISBN 091383615X).
- Wisdom from Mount Athos: The Writings of Staretz Siloan 1866-1938, St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1975 (ISBN 0913836176).
- His Life is Mine, St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1977 (ISBN B000B9E2WW). St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1997 (ISBN 0913836338).
- We Shall See Him As He Is, 1985. Essex, England: Stravropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist, 1988.
- Saint Silouan, the Athonite, St. Vladimir's Seminary Press; reprint edition, 1999 (ISBN 0881411957).
- On Prayer, St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1998 (ISBN 0-88141-194-9).
- Christ, Our Way and Our Life by Archimandrite Zacharias. "A Presentation of the theology of Archimandrite Sophrony." (ISBN 1-878997-74-2).
- I Love Therefore I Am by Nicholas V. Sakharov. St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 2003 (ISBN 0-88141-236-8).
"No one on this earth can avoid affliction; and although the afflictions which the Lord sends are not great men imagine them beyond their strength and are crushed by them. This is because they will not humble their souls and commit themselves to the will of God. But the Lord Himself guides with His grace those who are given over to God's will, and they bear all things with fortitude for the sake of God Whom they have so loved and with Whom they are glorified for ever. It is impossible to escape tribulation in this world but the man who is giver over to the will of God bears tribulation easily, seeing it but putting his trust in the Lord, and so his tribulations pass."
"There are three things I cannot take in: nondogmatic faith, nonecclesiological Christianity and nonascetic Christianity. These three - the church, dogma, and asceticism - constitute one single life for me." - Letter to D. Balfour, August 21, 1945.
"If one rejects the Orthodox creed and the eastern ascetic experience of life in Christ, which has been acquired throughout the centuries, then Orthodox culture would be left with nothing but the Greek minor [key] and Russian tetraphony." - Letter to D. Balfour.
"There are known instances when Blessed Staretz Silouan in prayer beheld something remote as though it were happening close by; when he saw into someone's future, or when profound secrets of the human soul were revealed to him. There are many people still alive who can bear witness to this in their own case but he himself never aspired to it and never accorded much significance to it. His soul was totally engulfed in compassion for the world. He concentrated himself utterly on prayer for the world, and in his spiritual life prized this love above all else." -- St Silouan the Athonite, p.228.
Sophrony (Sakharov) | ||
Preceded by: — |
Abbot of the Patriarchal Stavropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist 1959-1993 |
Succeeded by: Archimandrite Kyrillos |
Online Sources
- http://sophrony.narod.ru/indexe.html
- http://sophrony.narod.ru/texts/necrolog1.htm
- http://sophrony.narod.ru/texts/chapt1.htm
External links
- Interview with Archimandrite Hierotheos on Elder Sophrony, excerpt from Divine Ascent.
- Biography & photos of Elder Sophrony Sakharov [1]
- Ecumenical Patriarchate canonizes Elder Sophrony [2]
- Official canonization [3]
Categories > Church History
Categories > Liturgics > Feasts
Categories > Liturgics > Prayers
Categories > OrthodoxWiki > Articles in a series > Orthodox spirituality series
Categories > People > Monastics
Categories > People > Monastics
Categories > People > Saints > Russian Saints
Categories > Spirituality > Asceticism
Categories > Theology > Hesychasm


text:
Advance Purchase
Advance Purchase
Plan ahead for your seaside getaway where generations of memories have been created. From exploring the glittering shoreline and walking in the footsteps of historic legends, to sun-soaked afternoons by the pool and starlit nights around a beach bonfire, your best-ever vacation is in Coronado..
Reserve at least 21 days in advance and save up to 12% off your stay (14% for Hilton Honors members).
This rate is non-refundable and non-changeable. Must reserve at least 21 days in advance. Offer is subject to availability and some blackout dates may apply.
ADVANCE PURCHASE/NON-REFUNDABLE RATE: Full payment in advance is required. Must purchase online at least seven (7) days prior to arrival. Your credit card will be charged immediately for the entire stay. Advance Purchase Non-Refundable Rate discounts are up to twenty (20) percent off the Best Available Rate and varies by stay . Policies regarding changes to Advance Purchase/Non Refundable reservations may vary. Reservations made through certain third-party websites and travel agents may not be eligible for changes or refunds. No refunds for changes, cancellations, or non-arrival on the check-in date. Charges cannot be applied to other stays, services, or merchandise. No prices or hotel availability are guaranteed until full payment is received. Even after full payment has been received, we reserve the right to cancel a reservation without notice if we become aware of or are notified of any fraud or illegal activity associated with the payment for this reservation.
Modification of Reservation: The price quoted applies to the exact date(s)/nights/stay booked. Modifications to your reservation (including but not limited to name changes, date changes, etc.) are not permitted. However, for bookings in the United States, Mexico and the Caribbean, a request to cancel an existing Advance Purchase/Non-Refundable reservation and book a new reservation may be permitted if at the time you are requesting a change to your reservation, you book a new Advance Purchase/Non Refundable reservation at any hotel in the Hilton portfolio located in the United States, Mexico or the Caribbean, subject to availability. Upon receipt of full payment for the new reservation, Hilton will issue a refund for the canceled reservation, less a service fee. It may take up to four (4) weeks for the refund to be reflected on your credit card. For stays originally booked at the Waldorf Astoria, Conrad, Curio, Hilton, Embassy Suites or Doubletree brand hotels, the service fee is $50.00. For a cancellation and rebooking to be considered, you must call our Advance Purchase Department to request a change to your reservation at (800) 236-7113 or (972) 726-3361 no less than three days prior to your scheduled check-in date.
Early departure/cancellation: If you depart early or you cancel or fail to honor this reservation for any reason, you will not receive any credit or refund.
Extending your stay: Extensions will require a new reservation for the additional date(s), subject to availability and prevailing rates, and this rate shall not apply.
Price: The price you selected includes room rate and applicable taxes only and does not include any applicable service charges or charges for optional incidentals (including but not limited to gratuities, food and beverage, parking, minibar charges and other optional incidentals).
Other restrictions: This rate is not combinable with any other offers and promotions and is not available to groups. This rate is non-commissionable. If you fail to arrive at the hotel on the scheduled arrival date, your reservation will be cancelled and you will not receive any refund or credit. Hilton Honors® membership, earning of Points & Miles®, and redemption of points are subject to Hilton Honors Terms and Conditions.
To book by phone call +1-800-468-3533. Request the "Advance Purchase" offer or Plan Code "QO" at the time of booking. For Hilton Honors Members, use Plan Code "HPPAP2" at the time of booking.


text:
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
Kiddie D&D
Which brings me to Dungeons & Dragons. When I entered the hobby, the Basic Set I first acquired was the one edited by Dr. J. Eric Holmes, which carried on its cover the following blurb: "The Original Adult Fantasy Role Playing Game for 3 or More Players." My 10 year-old self took inordinate pride in this blurb, because, as it seemed to me, D&D was an adult game. Aside from my friends, the main people I knew who played it were actual adults and high school kids, which were close enough to adults to our way of thinking. The guys down at the hobby store were of similar ages, with a few other precocious kids like ourselves, but, by and large, the hobby was made up of people older than ourselves.
That was, I imagine, a big part of the appeal: playing with the Big Boys. That's why I regularly use the word "initiation" when I discuss my entry into the hobby in Fall of 1979, because that's what it felt like. It was as if I was being made a member of a secret, exclusive club and my friends and I were among those rare few who somehow bucked the odds and met the club's difficult entry requirements despite our youth and inexperience. That also probably explains why it was that we were so enthusiastic about conforming to the gaming culture we saw around us -- it was what the older guys were into, so of course we had to get into it as well.
Flash forward a couple of years to 1981 when the Moldvay-edited Basic Rulebook was released. It too was geared toward "adults" according to its cover, but it added a clarification: "Adults, Age 10 and Up." That struck us as odd. Since when were 10-year olds considered adults? By this time I was 12 and seeing a reference to 10 year-olds made me and my friends worry that perhaps these new rules were somehow for "little kids" and not "the real thing." Still, we bought the boxed set and used some of its rules, despite our initial misgivings, as they were admittedly clearer than either the Holmes set we started with or the AD&D books we all owned as well. And the Expert Rules, despite carrying the same recommended ages was something we all agreed was very useful.
Flash forward again to 1983 when the Mentzer-edited Basic set came out. They dropped all references to "adults," instead opting for the phrase "Ideal for 3 or more beginning to intermediate players, ages 10 and up." That small change in phrasing made a world of difference and, unlike Moldvay, we simply shied away from the new boxed sets. We were already deep into AD&D anyway -- "real" Dungeons & Dragons -- so we had no need for another intro game and we ignored Mentzer entirely, dubbing it "kiddie D&D," a term that stuck because we saw many more kids buying and playing it, most of whom were not only younger than we were but younger than we were when we were initiated into the hobby. (Interestingly, we either didn't notice or ignored the fact that even our beloved AD&D books were starting to include references to "ages 10 and up" on their covers)
This perception of "basic D&D" -- the boxed set descendants of the LBBs -- as a "game for kids" lingered for years. I avoided anything having to do with the game line, as it was beneath me, especially once I was now one of those high school kids who'd first impressed way back when. I realize now that I missed out on a number of excellent products during this period, but the perception I had was not mere prejudice; it was reinforced by the way these later boxed sets were presented and sold and by the ever-younger audience I saw buying them. This ties in somewhat with the post I made over the weekend about the TSR Code of Ethics. Clearly, TSR itself started to see D&D in all its forms as a game for children and adapted themselves to that reality. The older market seems to have become less important, which probably explains why, in the late 80s and throughout the 90s, most of the high school age and older gamers I knew -- the adults to whom the game had originally been pitched -- move on to other more "serious" games. I know I did.
All of the foregoing is a rambling way of saying that I think it was a mistake to try and sell Dungeons & Dragons to kids by making it more "friendly" to younger players, eliminating all the "adult" things that made it so attractive to us in the first place. The reality is that a product's real market is almost always younger than the one you perceive it to be. Kids have always wanted to be older than they are and they're very quick to see anything that's "age appropriate" as being for kids younger than themselves. D&D, in my view, came to be viewed as a child's game once TSR stopped explicitly pitching it as a game for adults. That view wasn't of course wholly correct but it didn't have to be. The fact that even people as well inclined toward D&D as myself saw the Mentzer sets as being for kids was probably enough to keep us from buying these products and precipitate further changes in the way the game was written, presented, and marketed, thereby making the perception reality, at least in part, and coloring the way many gamers would view the later history of the hobby for decades to come.
36 comments:
Hmm . . . it's dueling anecdotes time, I think. In Delhi, NY, my friends and I knew there were older kids playing AD&D, but we didn't play in their campaigns at all. For us, B/X and BECMI and AD&D were just different flavors of the game: in fact, I think my friend Scott was the only person in my group who ever bothered to run AD&D. Everyone else ran B/X and BECMI (with the exception of Jeff, who ran TRAVELLER). We certainly never felt like we were playing "baby D&D," and no one ever implied otherwise. It's possible that the year's difference between my starting date and your starting date is a factor here (1979 for you vs. 1980 for me), but then my first set was Holmes as well.
Also, was it really the case that older gamers switched to different systems in the second half of the 1980s and later because D&D was increasingly perceived of as a kiddies game? Or are we looking at a fully developed hobby industry with a broader set of options coming along at the same time that a large number of people felt that they had quite possibly played out the possibilities of D&D and were simply ready for something new?
I know that my own switch to TALISLANTA was motivated more by the desire for a unified mechanic than by any sense that my friends and I had outgrown D&D--the latter was still the default fantasy game of choice.Bob's observation about the switch to other games rings more true to me, but that may just be a reflection of my own experience. By the mid-80s, AD&D felt played out to me, and I wanted something different (such as escaping the class and level system). WFRP and CoC came along just as this need was hitting me. I don't ever recall any of us thinking of Basic D&D as "the kiddie game."
Security word: "adionyba," the name of the Otyugh that lives in the sewers near my apartment.- AnonymousMarch 16, 2010 at 4:36 PM
I love reading about others experiences when they first became acquainted with the game. And after reading this post, I couldn't agree more with you more, author.
Even though we started in the summer of 2000, more than two decades after your beginnings, we still had the same feelings towards the game. A friend's older brother had a D&D group together
, so he was always allowed to watch them game. Ofcourse, we were jealous, we wanted to watch too. We had no idea what the game was even about, or what role-playing really was. But everyone that played were either in high school or older, and they all had Slayer t-shirts and long hair. And since we were all about fourteen years old, that was as cool as it could get.
So yea, I couldn't agree more. Even though we were immediately drawn to the game because of the fantasy aspect, the fact that all of the "older cool dudes" were gamers, made us want to game too. Great post, maybe later I will re-visit some old memories! And I hope to read about some more of yours. I, too, started with Holmes 'Basic' around the age of 10. The 'adult' aspect/image of the game and the way those rules were written, even the rough illustrations, though challenging as it was to comprehend, enhanced my feeling of playing a mature fantasy game. When the Modvay rules came out, I was totally turned off by the look of the book, the larger print,the cartoony pictures. Though the rules were much more clear, I saw it as more geared towards children. A very subtle difference but huge to me at the time.
I don't think things need to be 'dumbed' down for children. Kids get what they want out of it, whether it's a movie, book, game, etc. Things that may be over their head they sort of just bypass and attach onto what they can relate to even if some of the themes are more adult orientated.I present the jury with Moldvay exhibit A: Morgan Ironwolf. More sex appeal in a single image than in the entirety of Holmes. ;)
ReplyDeleteNot a Golden Age, but a Gilded Age made a very similar point.
ReplyDeleteMy experience is totally different. I find the age recommendations generally as useful as I'd expect from any such thing. Depending on the match up of specific child to specific product, they'll be off. With experience, however, I generally know how to adjust it for those specifics.
My kids completely ignore the recommendations. As I & my friends did when we were kids.
As for the criticisms of TSR, when it did happen it looks more to me like a symptom of the general incompetance of the people in charge rather than a fundamental mistake.I think that when discussing the "kiddifying" of D&D marketing you can't ignore a very important part of selling something to a 10 year old; you also have to sell it to their parents. While kids want stuff geared towards older kids and adults, parents are often a bit more conservative about what they want their kids exposed too. You also have to keep in mind that TSR was dealing with a bit of a PR problem with regards to how parents percieved the game at that time.
Making it look more family friendly was important so that parents would let 10 year olds play it.Since I didn't play D &D, and only used the books for resource material for Dragonquest I don't think I paid much attention to the age descriptor. I pretty much played Dragonquest from 1981 to 1986 with brief interruptions of other games when we wanted something other than a fantasy setting. The pejorative "kiddie" moniker often haunted the entire hobby, let alone versions of a marketed game. A person playing a pretend character doesn't sound adult. Guess they don't go to movies or the theater much either. Dealing with those comments from time to time as well as the ever popular "devil worshipping" was enough of a challenge for the PR side of the hobby. I quit Dragonquest in 1986 because of a horrible argument with a roommate, but still very much liked the game. In a true fit of irrationality I gave away all my gaming material and had to start from scratch in 90 when I returned to Dragonquest. In the mean time I had a few great years playing Battletech and then Mechwarrior.
ReplyDeleteI present the jury with Moldvay exhibit A: Morgan Ironwolf. More sex appeal in a single image than in the entirety of Holmes. ;)
On that point, I will readily concede your point. Just so long as none of those dirty Aleena lovers comes round here, spreading their perversity I'm sure you and I can come to an accommodation.Making it look more family friendly was important so that parents would let 10 year olds play it.
Oh, no doubt, but there's a complex calculus going on here that has to balance the kid's desire for something "older" with parents' desire for "appropriate" entertainments. I personally think that Moldvay struck the balance better than did Mentzer, even though I prefer Holmes to both of them.The pejorative "kiddie" moniker often haunted the entire hobby
Yes, absolutely. That's one of the reasons why I find the early days of the hobby most interesting. When the assumed audience was college-age kids and older, I don't think the game had quite the same stigma as it acquired later, in part because it was so much more obscure.As I said in a previous discussion, D&D was initially designed by adults and for adults.
Of course, that didn't mean a thirteen years old boy could not play, but in order to do it, he had to make an effort. That was rewarding.
D&D became later a more childish game, and we all can deplore it. Many hardcore players were attracted by more "mature" games, at the time, and I realize now that was the main reason.
I think this perfectly matches the transition from the "Golden Age" to the "Silver Age" when:
" is also the age where the Great Wyrm begins to eat its own tail, being influenced not just by epic fantasy generally but more specifically by second or third order epic fantasies that were themselves influenced by D&D".
Abandoning references to Howard, Vance, Leiber or Moorcock for a smoother and harmless literature was a big mistake. In my opinion, of course.
I guess they thought that's where the money was: teenagers and their parent's purses.
Maybe they were right in a pure mercantile way, but this led D&D to a sad end.- AnonymousMarch 16, 2010 at 8:33 PM
I distinctly recall an 8 year-old me reading the label on the Moldvay box and wondering if there was a chance I might get in trouble for reading the books I was clearly too young for. Not that it stopped me, but I remember thinking those thoughts.
ReplyDelete Yeah, I was surprised to see "Places To Go, People To Be" also. I had it bookmarked a while ago, but thought it had faded away around 2008.
Here is the site I am referring to:
Anyway, me and my friends always considered ourselves to have "graduated" to AD&D sometime in the early 1980's, and passed up all the subsequent iterations of D&D like the BECMI sets.
Eventually, like Anthony above, we maxed out on AD&D and its mechanics and moved on to other games like WFRP and Star Trek.I see your point James, but is cleaning up the presentation and clairifying the rules really making the game more "kid friendly" or just easier to teach and play?
Was the label actually just a marketing thing or a substantive change to the rules to appeal to kids? They may have been trying to enlarge their audience, even though the rules were mostly written for older teens and up. Certainly 3e wasn't a kid's game. 4e, maybe.Eventually, like Anthony above, we maxed out on AD&D and its mechanics and moved on to other games like WFRP and Star Trek.
Sure, I did too. I didn't mean to imply that the kiddification of D&D was the only or even the primary reason that a lot of teens and adults abandoned the game in the late 80s and into the 90s, but I do think it played a role.Was the label actually just a marketing thing or a substantive change to the rules to appeal to kids?
I think, if you look at, for example, the artwork in Moldvay and Mentzer and compared it to the artwork in earlier editions, you'll see a clear shift toward stuff that was more "kid friendly" and based on different archetypes. I also recall the way that Mentzer downplayed the role of clerics as servants of gods. That was a change that served no purpose other than to meet head on claims that D&D promoted "paganism" and thus make the game more acceptable to Middle America. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.Question for James (or anyone else who is now a parent)--
what "flavor" (by which I mean more than version) of D&D do you think is "good" for which ages of kids? my almost 6-year-old is allowed to lie on the sofa in the next room with the lights off while we play and while he's awake we use a variety of abbreviations, euphemisms, and foreign words. (OOC = "out-of-commission" = dead; wakufa watembea = "walking dead in Swahili = any kind of undead).
Whenever I've made a compromise in response to his pleading, his experience has confirmed my caution; his imagination must be incredibly vivid. The close identification with one's character that makes RPGs so cool can also be kind of scary.what "flavor" (by which I mean more than version) of D&D do you think is "good" for which ages of kids?
Do you mean in terms of mechanical complexity or in terms of its content? In both cases, I think either Moldvay or (better yet) Mentzer would be good introductions to the game. That said, I think almost any TSR version of the game could be used profitably if the referee bears in mind his audience. In my Dwimmermount campaign, in which my 10 year-old daughter plays, for example, I don't dwell on anything too "gross" nor do I present any "adult" situations. However, I don't shy away from things that could be frightening or that could threaten her character (who's come close to death several times), because I don't want her to get the wrong impression about what the game is like. She's slowly adapting her expectations to my refereeing style and that's a good thing to my mind, even if there are often bumps along the way.Was AD&D targeted at a more older audience in tone?
Prior to the new covers in 1983, I don't recall any age information being given for AD&D, but someone can correct me on this score if I'm mistaken. To my friends and I, 1e definitely was the "older" game. Whether that's what TSR intended I can't say with certainty.I definitely mean content. D&D can be a lot of fun when the players (even adults) have no awareness of the mechanics at all. But that's another issue.
And sure "gross" (gore?) and "adult" (sex?) are obvious things to avoid, but there are other things-- maybe the biggest is just the violence that's central to the game. recently, we were playing a war game (Conquest of the Empire-- similar to Risk, but Romans and really pretty army markers) and he made the observation that "every game helps you learn something, this one is for helping you learn not to be scared so you can fight in a war."
And this got me to thinking about what impressions I'm making and even what it is that I so much enjoy once my mother once referred to as "sitting around talking about killing people."To my friends and I, 1e definitely was the "older" game. Whether that's what TSR intended I can't say with certainty.
In the Mentzer set, TSR definitely played up the fact that AD&D was "more complicated" than Basic, almost to the point of apparently pitching it as a wholly different game. Certainly made an impression on me.
I just posted about the Moldvay-Mentzer divide, and for me personally I never felt an urge to move on beyond BECMI. I only made the eventual, reluctant switch because everyone else played AD&D and (thanks in part to the Mentzer set's language about AD&D), I felt that the systems were wholly separate and distinct. At the time, it felt like a "when in Rome" sort of decision.- AnonymousMarch 17, 2010 at 12:23 AM
I agree with James.
I started with Holmes and the AD&D Monster Manual in 1980 when I was 10 years old. I instantly gravitated towards the demons and devils. Now THAT was Advanced. A few months later I bought the brand-new AD&D Deities & Demigods, and the Cthulhu Mythos section soaked deep into my imagination (giving rise to CARCOSA 28 years later).
Sometime in 1981 I saw the Moldvay/Cook B/X books, and I was turned-off. They seemed "kiddy" to me. I liked the difficult Gygaxian prose. I liked the demons, devils, and especially the Cthulhoid gods and monsters. I liked the D trilogy of modules. There was nothing in B/X that could compare.
So I was a 10-11 year-old who definitely liked the adult aspect of AD&D, and disliked what I perceived as the kiddy aspect of B/X.
Humorously enough, now that I'm an adult, I admire B/X more than I do AD&D. I think "kiddy" stuff tends to appeal more to adults than to children. Exhibit A, from the 1983 TSR catalog:
Friendly Wizard, Come to Me
Sure and that'll calm parents down about their 8 year olds playing the satanic game.
The rest of the thread on the Acaeum forum is also pretty enlightening. As cringe-worthy as the ads from the kiddie era are, the earlier marketing to adults and teens is just as bad.Hey James - no worries. I totally agree with you that it played a role. I think "maxed out" was the wrong turn of phrase for me to use, anyway.
Also, I think that by the mid-1980's a lot of other RPG's had started to get some traction in the minds of gamers, and that gamer ADD was starting to rear its ugly head for many of us.
:-)- AnonymousMarch 19, 2010 at 3:55 PM
Nice summation of what we said in the previous post. I don't know - remember the 80s were a strange time. Suddenly the boomers were having children reaching their teen years yearning to discover all the bad things their parents - that being Sex, Drugs, Rock 'n Roll and D&D.
So, yes, there was an older generation who could chaperone the younger group away from the lurid images and adult themes of D&D. It did not stop, kids from wanting to discover them on own terms.
But, what is a game company that wants to expand do? Play it safe. So, they become more conservative (also in keeping with the times which remember the Christian Right ralled against RPGs - now they are making them). So again, James, think of the times in which the industry had to find a niche. No longer could there be experimentation by long haired freaks but standardization, corporatization and blandification. Sure, not all companies went down that route but experimentation only started up again later...why because a generation had passed. "Was AD&D targeted at a more older audience in tone?"
"Prior to the new covers in 1983, I don't recall any age information being given for AD&D, but someone can correct me on this score if I'm mistaken. To my friends and I, 1e definitely was the "older" game. Whether that's what TSR intended I can't say with certainty."
Well, it was supposed to standardize rules and cover enough bases that strangers playing at tournaments would have a common ruleset and vocabulary. I guess to an extent that means aimed at older people with enough autonomy to get to conventions.
Also, has anyone considered that as the 80s went on, for reasons that had little to do with gaming per se, teenagers and adults got less interested in gaming and more interested in other things? I mean, it *was* the 80s. There was coke and post-punk and New Wave and glam metal and Rocky IV and Reaganomics and capitalism and all sorts of distractions. Maybe D&D had to move kidward for survival. It might be harder for us to see that older people just weren't interested, since clearly we *are*, but it's possible." I think it was a mistake to try and sell Dungeons & Dragons to kids by making it more "friendly" to younger players, "
While I think you are right about young people being drawn to material aimed at an older audience, that doesnt change the fact that the Mentzer Basic Set was one of TSR's all time best selling products...
Also it should be noted that the later boxed sets in the series had older age recommendations on them.


text:
The use of prescription drugs to lose weight is commonplace these days. However, there are some precautions that you should take when using these medicines. It is important to read the label and learn about the ingredients of the pills before taking them. The right dosage can make a huge difference in the effectiveness of the product. It is important to check for side effects. These drugs are not for everyone. They should be used under the supervision of a doctor.
When using weight loss pills, follow the instructions carefully. You should never exceed the recommended dose. Depending on your body type and your health condition, you can experience serious side effects if you continue to use them. Moreover, there are various factors that affect the results of the pills. You should discuss your options with your healthcare provider before you start using them. And remember, you should always stick to the manufacturer's directions. It is best to follow the dosage recommended by the manufacturers.
The weight loss pills may offer a money back guarantee. Some companies provide a refund or a replacement if you are not satisfied with the product. While most of these pills are available on the market, a money-back guarantee is important for you. It will allow you to return any unused capsules if you are not satisfied. You should consider the length of the money back guarantee, since the weight loss effects may be gradual. Also, look for one that offers a free trial. If you do not see any visible change, it might be a scam and you should not purchase it.
Before you buy any weight-loss pill, make sure you check that the product is safe to use. You can also get a money-back guarantee. If you are not satisfied with the results, you can return your unused capsules and get your money back. The money-back guarantee is a guarantee against the products' side effects. If you don't get the results you desire, it is worth taking the risk. The results are usually temporary. If the results do not meet your expectations, you can always return any unused pills.
Weight loss pills can be a great way to lose weight. While they may be a great help in your efforts to lose weight, they are not a quick fix. The risks associated with them outweigh the benefits of the supplement. Some pills work by increasing your metabolism, curbing your appetite, or limiting the absorption fat. There are side effects to taking any pill. You should consult your doctor before you take them.
There are many weight loss products on the market. Your personal situation and goals will determine which one is most effective. A pill that reduces appetite is a good choice if you are overweight. A pill that contains more caffeine can cause anxiety, increase heart rate, and even jitteriness. Limit the amount of caffeine that you consume each day. Limit your intake to one to two cups of coffee if you are sensitive to caffeine.
Some of the weight loss pills are prescription drugs. FDA approves only long-term safe use. They are not meant to replace a healthy diet and exercise program. They are an integral part of your weight loss plan. Just be sure to check the label before buying them. Be sure to consider your overall health, as well as any coexisting medical conditions, when choosing a weight loss supplement.
Prescription weight loss pills can help you lose weight for a variety of reasons. These pills can be used to help you lose weight if you have a weight-related disease. These pills can be used for short-term weight loss and some are approved for long-term use. If you're taking prescription drugs, they should be taken with caution. It's important to talk to your doctor about your current health condition before taking them.
The use of prescription weight loss pills is not safe for everyone. They can lead to liver damage and other serious medical issues. Before you take any medication, consult your doctor. Prescription weight loss pills can help you lose weight and keep it off. Prescription drugs may be the best option if you are already obese. If you're not, then you should wait for a year. You should think about your options if you are overweight.


text:
#14 - Janet Looney
The latest installment in the Future Classroom Lab interview series sees Janet Looney, Director of the European Institute of Education and Social Policy, give her views on the forces shaping the future of education.
#13 - Barry O'Sullivan
Barry O'Sullivan, Senior Adviser for English Language Assessment, British Council, gives his views on how education will innovate in the coming years.
#12 - Dr. Lennie Scott-Webber
Dr. Lennie Scott-Webber, Director of Education Environments at Steelcase Inc., talks about design resolutions that empower learning. See the interview to find out how evidenced-based design methodologies and knowledge of how we learn can be used to create better learning environments.
#11 - Warren Barkley
Warren Barkley, the Chief Technology Officer for SMART Technologies, talks in this interview on technology in schools, speed of change, collaborative and other skills needed in future jobs, and scaling up the the best pedagogical practice across schools. The interview was filmed during the conference "iTEC - Designing the future classroom" in May 2014 in Brussels.
#10 - Anne Looney
Anne Looney, the CEO of Ireland's National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, speaks to us about innovation in school, student engagement and national digital learning strategy. The interview was filmed during the Living Schools Lab summer school in Dublin, May 2014. Anne Looney's presentation at the event is available here.
#9 - Classroom of 2025
European Schoolnet spoke to some of the leading thinkers in European education to get their ideas on how develops in society and technology would impact on how we teach and learn.
#8 - Diana Laurillard
Diana Laurillard, Professor of Learning with Digital Technologies at the Institute of Education, University of London, gives her views on the trends that are impacting on education. The interview was filmed during the Eminent conference at Helsinki on 4-5 December 2013.
#7 - Patricia Manson
Patricia Manson, Head of Unit for Inclusion, Skills & Youth at the European Commission's DG Connect, was interviewed by European Schoolnet at the iTEC 'Every Classroom a Future Classroom' event about developments in technology that will shape the future of education, and about the EC's initiatives for opening up education.The video was filmed at the Every Classroom a Future Classroom conference, organised by the iTEC project, at Brussels on 10-11 October 2013
#6 - Kristen Weatherby
Kristen Weatherby, Senior Analyst on the OECD's TALIS project (Teaching and Learning International Survey), speaks on emerging trends in teaching and learning, such as Bring Your Own Device and the use of social media in education. The video was filmed at the Every Classroom a Future Classroom conference, organised by the iTEC project, at Brussels on 10-11 October 2013.
#5 - David Brown
Professor David J. Brown, Interactive Systems Research Group, School of Science & Technology, Nottingham Trent University, United Kingdom, interviewed on the use of games in special needs education as part of the the SENnet (Special Educational Needs Network) project.
#4 - Bob Fryer
Professor R.H. (Bob) Fryer CBE, Chair of the UK's Campaign for Learning, and founding Chief Executive of the NHS University, and chaired the National Advisory Group for Continuing Education and Lifelong Learning, speaks on how we can make use of social media to improve e-Learning.
#3 - Patricia Wastiau
Patricia Wastiau, Principal Adviser for Research and Studies at European Schoolnet, discusses the publication of the 'Survey of Schools: ICT in Education' report, released on 18 April 2013, which examines the level of use of ICT in teaching and learning across Europe.
To download the report, go http://www.eun.org/ict-survey
#2 - Tim Pearson
Tim Pearson, technologist and former CEO of RM Education, one of Britain's largest providers of educational technology, gives his thoughts on how emerging trends in technology will influence the education process.
#1 - Lord Puttnam
Lord Puttnam, Chancellor of the Open University, former Chair of the General Teaching Council for England, and award-winning film producer, gives his views on how emerging trends in technology will affect education, and what he envisions as the classroom of the future.


text:
On Morning Edition today, a couple of reports highlighting the run-up to the Feb. 28 Michigan primary, which is shaping up to be a close match between Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, who has gained considerable momentum from wins elsewhere in the Midwest last week.
NPR's Don Gonyea reports from Michigan that Santorum's committment to conservative family values is having some resonance there.
NPR's Ari Shapiro reports that amid strong earnings for General Motors three years after it teetered on the verge of bankruptcy, Romney's opposition to the government auto bailout could hurt him among Michigan voters.
The reports follow fallout on Thursday from something Foster Friess, Santorum's billionaire supporter, said on MSNBC. NPR's Frank James has more on that.
Copyright 2021 NPR. To see more, visit https://www.npr.org.


text:
If you are considering part exchanging your current vehicle we are able to provide you with a very competitive quotation.
For an accurate quote please contact us on 01524 400004 or complete our part exchange form below when you enquire about any vehicle through the website.
We are able to provide part-exchange to help you to purchase your car. Please fill out our form below, giving as much information as possible, to apply for part-exchange online.
If you would like to enquire about the 2007 (07) MINI HATCHBACK 1.6 COOPER S 3DR Manual please complete the form below giving as much detail as possible.
Please complete all fields marked with an asterisk *


text:
• Metallic Paint (I used Rust-Oleum spray paint)
• Some other colors of paint (I used whatever I had leftover from other projects)
• Canvas or something to paint on
• ScotchBlue Painter's Tape (Mine is 2" wide)
This is what I started with.
I bought this in a parking lot 8 years ago when we were first decorating our old house. It's been moved around quite a bit and now I've just outgrown it. I wrestled a little with painting over a perfectly good painting. But since I no longer find it beautiful, and it does not serve a function, it was either time to make it beautiful or get rid of it.
Step1: Paint some of the canvas with the metallic paint. I tried to keep all my paint going in an up and down motion.
Step 2: Blob on some color and spread it around again. Leave unpainted areas. My 3 year old did most of this. I helped him keep it going up and down.
Step 3: Blob on some other colors and keep going.
Step 4: Pick up older child from Pre-K... wait, I mean let it dry once you're happy with the colors.
Step 5: Start taping (and put on some Phineas and Ferb to keep children in trance-like state).
I started with that piece in the corner and just lined up the tape based off of that one. No real pattern, just tried to keep the spaces even between each piece. I didn't measure anything. This may require 2 episodes of Phineas and Ferb.
Step 6: Paint over the tape with the metallic paint.
Step 7: Peal off the tape (we did not wait for it to dry).


text:
Tuesday, August 30, 2011
Couscous with Sun-Dried Tomatoes and Feta Cheese
From the kitchen of One Perfect Bite...While I love to shop in warehouse stores, I limit my visits to them, to once or twice a month. The reason is simple. I'm infirm of purpose and constitutionally incapable of leaving them until I've spent the equivalent of a king's ransom. My weakness can be found in the food aisles. The store I frequent has gorgeous meat and fish and I'm lured by steaks and chops as surely as Jason was by the siren's song. My indulgence this past weekend was double cut lamb chops that I had purchased for a special dinner. While I had a lovely pilaf to accompany them, I also wanted to try a recipe for a Greek-style couscous that's been on my radar for a while now. I'm a poor judge of recipes like this because I don't like the texture of couscous, but I knew I could trust the opinions of my guests who neither share nor understand my aversion. The couscous was well-received, so I'm comfortable sharing this fast and flavorful dish with you. If you like couscous, I suspect you'll enjoy it prepared in this way. Here's the recipe.
Couscous with Sun-Dried Tomatoes and Feta Cheese...from the kitchen of One Perfect Bite courtesy of Taste of Home Magazine
1 cup boiling water
1/2 cup sun-dried tomatoes (not packed in oil)
1 can (14-1/2 ounces) vegetable broth
1-1/4 cups uncooked couscous
1/2 cup crumbled feta cheese
1/4 cup minced fresh parsley
1-1/2 teaspoons minced fresh oregano or 1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
1 tablespoon lemon juice
1 teaspoon water
1 teaspoon olive oil
1) Place sun-dried tomatoes in a small bowl. Cover with boiling water. Let stand for 5 minutes.
2) Meanwhile, bring broth to a boil in a small saucepan. Sir in couscous. Remove from heat and let stand, covered, for 5 minutes, or until broth is absorbed.
3) Drain and chop tomatoes. Add to couscous. Stir in feta cheese, parsley, oregano, lemon juice, water and olive oil. Serve warm or chilled. Yield: 6 servings.
One Year Ago Today: Lime Marmalade
Two Years Ago Today: Watermelon Rind Pickles
You might also enjoy these recipes:
Couscous with Grilled Eggplant and Zucchini - The Flourishing Foodie
Couscous Salad - A Little Bit of Everything
Recipe for Whole Wheat Couscous with Saffron and Onions - Kalyn's Kitchen
Couscous with Toasted Pine Nuts - Sugar and Spice by Celeste
Mediterranean Couscous - Karma Cuisine
40 comments :
- Alessandra said...
This is something I really like to make when I have very little time, and need to fill the belly :-). So lovely!
- August 30, 2011 at 12:54 AM
i LOVE IT:) sO LIHGT AND TASTY:)
- August 30, 2011 at 1:27 AM
- Pondside said...
I really enjoy couscous, but my husband doesn't like the texture. This dish sounds very tasty - I don't know if it would change his mind though.
- August 30, 2011 at 1:33 AM
- A Bitchin' Kitchen said...
Yum...I don't mind the texture of couscous, and I think I'd love it with a Greek twist. This looks great!
- Maggie - August 30, 2011 at 1:40 AM
- Banana Wonder said...
I love all these ingredients - but you don't like couscous? What about Isreali couscous? ... and yeah, King's ransom... I know what you're talking about ;-)
- August 30, 2011 at 1:48 AM
- Katarina said...
Sounds great!
- August 30, 2011 at 1:51 AM
- Sparkly Jules said...
Hey Mary,
This looks fantastic, but I have two questions:
1. Could this be made with Israeli couscous? (I prefer it).
2. Do you drain off any of the leftover boiled water before adding the vegetable broth? Or just add it with any existing water (assuming it wasn't all absorbed).
Thanks again!!
Jules - August 30, 2011 at 2:31 AM
- Diane said...
I love couscous, but I find what I buy in France has a much smaller grain than what I am used to and it seems to stick together!! I must stock up when I go to the UK!! This recipe sounds great will give it a try. Take care Diane
- August 30, 2011 at 3:34 AM
- Priya Suresh said...
Looks wonderful and filling..
- August 30, 2011 at 4:07 AM
- Jeannie said...
Beautiful dish, like the combinations of sun dried tomatoes and feta, my son love these ingredients!
- August 30, 2011 at 5:14 AM
- Valerie Harrison (bellini) said...
The Mediterranean flavours here are perfect with the couscous Maty!
- August 30, 2011 at 5:23 AM
- Rachana said...
Such a flavourful and delicious dish. Yum!
- August 30, 2011 at 5:23 AM
- Sprigs of Rosemary said...
In our house, it's me who loves couscous and Mr. Rosemary who can't abide it. Maybe this dish would sway him. Maybe. (I'm sold.) I'm lucky I don't have any warehouse stores nearby . . . lamb chops, you say!
- August 30, 2011 at 6:44 AM
- Martha said...
I'll have to try this next time I do lamb chops -- looks really good!
- August 30, 2011 at 7:26 AM
- Kim said...
This is a great sidedish to serve with chicken or fish, I like it, a lot!
- August 30, 2011 at 8:02 AM
- Susan Lindquist said...
Mary, I just made a nice pumpkin dip that would be such a nice side to this couscous as a vegetarian dinner ... love all these Mediterranean flavours!
- August 30, 2011 at 8:06 AM
- GLENDA CHILDERS said...
It must be fun to be invited to your home for dinner. You put so much thought into everything.
Glenda - August 30, 2011 at 8:24 AM
- Tasha said...
In my family we all LOVE couscous, feta and greek/mediterranean flavors. Add some chickpeas and this would be a perfect complete meal for us.
I do have a question, in the picture there is a darker color ingredient that looks like olives but I don't see what it is in the ingredients list. - August 30, 2011 at 8:45 AM
- Unknown said...
Love the Greek flavors in this - and feta has become one of my favorite cheeses lately. This looks and sounds delicious!
- August 30, 2011 at 8:50 AM
- Jihane @ Sinful Sundays said...
I eat couscous like 3-4 times a week so I welcome this beautiful recipe. It looks delicious!
- August 30, 2011 at 9:51 AM
Love couscous so this looks really delicious to me!
- August 30, 2011 at 9:51 AM
- Inspired by eRecipeCards said...
Yeap, Sam's Club for me... the place for meat, top quality at a great price. COurse it's tough to shop for two there, but I can always through a party... with this as a side
great post - August 30, 2011 at 10:29 AM
- SallyBR said...
I am a couscous lover all the way, and always searching for new ways to indulge
sun dried tomatoes, nice idea! - August 30, 2011 at 10:58 AM
- Stephen said...
We really love couscous and this sounds delicious. As someone else mentioned I thought I saw olives, no matter I will probably tinker with this just for fun.
- August 30, 2011 at 11:35 AM
- Bossy Chef said...
This looks fabulous... I must find a place for this in this weeks line up.
- August 30, 2011 at 11:51 AM
- Y said...
My fiance is going to love this!!!
- August 30, 2011 at 12:07 PM
I love couscous, especially with sun-dried tomatoes. They so complement each other. I love how you added the feta.
Karen - August 30, 2011 at 12:35 PM
- That Girl said...
I avoid warehouse stores because we just don't have the room for them!
- August 30, 2011 at 12:36 PM
- MegSmith @ Cooking.In.College said...
I love how easy couscous is to make. Perfect for hot summer days!
- August 30, 2011 at 12:50 PM
- Gloria Baker said...
Look delicious I love cous cous!!! gloria
- August 30, 2011 at 1:34 PM
- Ginny Hartzler said...
I don't like the texture of couscous either. I made it only once, isn't it pasta? But this looks worth me trying, maybe i would like it this way, it looks good.
- August 30, 2011 at 2:36 PM
- Alexandrina said...
Hello, Mary, thanks for visiting me! I hope that my translator works just fine for you (my english is not so good, i have not practiced since childhood); anyway i`m glad that i found your lovely blog and now i am one of your followers.
Greetings from Romania!
Alexandrina - August 30, 2011 at 3:29 PM
- Claudia said...
I love couscous and enjoy dressing it up. Fun paired with the lamb - I do love Greek flavors in a salad. Who knows? Maybe the texture will grow on you?
- August 30, 2011 at 6:56 PM
- Kelly said...
Simple preparation and bursting with flavour and nutrients. My kind of delicious!
- August 30, 2011 at 8:32 PM
- Joanne said...
You had me at feta cheese (I'm an easy sell).
- August 30, 2011 at 8:49 PM
- Beloved Green said...
Beautiful, great end of summer meal.
- August 30, 2011 at 10:20 PM
- Becki's Whole Life said...
Great healthy recipe here! I have recently started buying the whole wheat cous cous from Trader Joe's and I am hooked. The flavors here are wonderful and I bet the cous cous just absorbs them all for a wonderful side dish...would be good with some grilled chicken.
- August 30, 2011 at 11:23 PM
- Chef E said...
Mary, just wanted to let you know your food as always looks fantastic- makes me want to hire you to come over and cook for me for a while, so I can have a break :)
- August 31, 2011 at 1:02 AM
- Julia said...
Same here, Mary. I don't like the texture of couscous either. The dish looks lovely though so I'd probably substitute the couscous for bulgur wheat, which I love.
- September 1, 2011 at 3:17 AM
- What's next said...
I love couscous, can't wait to try it!
- September 1, 2011 at 6:17 PM


text:
flexible mechanical coupling / shaft flexible coupling / grid coupling / pump shaft coupling / flexible coupling types / insert flexible coupling
High quality China manufacturer PIN Couplings Suppliers
EVER-POWER INDUSTRY is a specialist in making all kinds of mechanical transmission and hydraulic transmission like: planetary gearboxes, worm reducers, in-line helical gear speed reducers, parallel shaft helical gear reducers, helical bevel reducers, helical worm gear reducers, agricultural gearboxes, tractor gearboxes, auto gearboxes, PTO shafts, special reducer & related gear components and other related products, hydraulic cylinder, gear pumps and so on. Furthermore, we can produce customized variators, geared motors, electric motors and other hydraulic products according to customers' drawings.
We have exported our products to clients around the world and earned a good reputation because of our superior product quality and after-sales service. We warmly welcome customers both at home and abroad to contact us to negotiate business, exchange information and cooperate with us.
We staff over 1500 workers, and have CNC turning machines and CNC work centers.
For more details, please check out our products catalogs and machine lists.