text:
Santa Claus or Mary Christmas?
Gender equality gone to far?
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Santa Claus or Mary Christmas?
Gender equality gone to far?
8.Dec.2012, 09:07 PM
Post #1
Joined: 4.Oct.2009
I took my young kids to see the "big man" himself today as promised, there was no way I was going to forget about this promise, from early morn the little ones talked of nothing else.
"what will you ask him?" my youngest asked his big brother.
"I´ll ask him for...(the list is quite long)..." he replied.
On the way to the store they chatted away together in the back of the car,
"I wonder what he looks like"
"Will he know my name"
"will his reindeers be there"
And so on...now as you can see the little ones refer to St.Nick as being male, as me myself would do also and infact always have. I´ve seen images of the guy on Christmas cards, wrapping paper, cola bottles, socks, jumpers, ties posters I´ve see the man in movies, cartoons, TV shows and advertisements and he has always been a larger than life male, heck even his names, St. Nicholas or Father Christmas would say this is a male.
Not in the toy store we went too, nope, the big man was a little woman, the look of disapointment on the kids face was clear to see, I was a bit too taken a back myself to do much more than nod a hello.
Of course the questions started on the way home, "Why was Santa sounding like a woman?"
"How come Santa was so small?"
"Was that real?"
I would love if kids could believe in Santa for years and years, the magic and wonder of Christmas creates memories that stay with us forever and seeing this wonder being recreated on the faces of my youngest is a joy to be hold.
If I had know the store were going to have a little woman sitting in for Santa I would have steered clear.
I am all for gender equality, I´ve no problem with woman priests or female welders, not what so ever, but this is surely one role that should be kept for men only...what do you think???
8.Dec.2012, 09:55 PM
Post #2
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008
It's actually really sad when so many adult agendas need to force their own issues onto listening children to make them feel better.
Having a pre op transgendered Midget from a warm part of the planet who is allergic to animal fur and appears with a broom wearing bumless PVC pants and references to dildo wangling to address a personal issue towards children just in case 1 out of a 1000 000 may be as f*cked up as the rebranded politically correct and all swedish santa is ridiculous.
But then again this is Sweden.
Warts and all.
8.Dec.2012, 09:56 PM
Post #3
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008
/ half assed
8.Dec.2012, 11:49 PM
Post #4
Joined: 4.Oct.2009
I didn´t think of it being a "Swedish thing" to be honest, I was just disapointed, it is hard enough to make the innocent of kids last beyond 6 or 7 these days.
Has anyone else had a similar visit to Father Christmas only to find a woman with a fake beard in his place?
9.Dec.2012, 04:56 PM
Post #5
Joined: 4.Oct.2009
No one?
Was it just me so?
9.Dec.2012, 09:34 PM
Post #6
Joined: 1.Feb.2012
Seamus Sean, are you British/Irish?
9.Dec.2012, 10:36 PM
Post #7
Joined: 2.Mar.2008
time to go with the old santas "helpers" routine..typical Swedish nonsesnse
10.Dec.2012, 12:40 PM
Post #8
Location: Sweden
Joined: 12.Sep.2011
I would be seriously peeved if that happened to my kids. The shop could at least have made a vague attempt to pull a passable Santa...
10.Dec.2012, 12:50 PM
Post #9
Location: Sweden
Joined: 12.Sep.2011
A little side story:
Last Xmas, we celebrated Julafton at my Sister in laws home with her grown up kids and her husband. I had my two kids (3 and 5) with me and of course we had planned the usual visit from Santa to hand out the presents.
In my wife's family, they have for years used a special Rubber Santa mask, it is incredibly realistic and the beard and all look quite life-like
Anyway, 'Santa' called to the door and handed out all the presents. Santa spoke with a funny accent but made himself understood. It was great fun and the kids went wild. On the way home in the car, my son (5 y.o.) turned around and asked, "Dad, I didn't know that Santa was black?"... My sister in law's husband arranged for a mate from work (from Africa originally) to be Santa, in fairness he did a great job and he did everything he could to conceal his identity or anything else that might betray the fact he was just a guy in mask. Unfortunately for him my little fella is quite observant and noticed his neck line which was uncovered.
My response to my son was that Santa has so many homes to visit that he sometimes has to get his friends to help him out. He seemed to accept this... I am hoping to get a few more years out of Santa but suspect that now he is 6 this may be last 'Santified' Xmas for him
10.Dec.2012, 02:49 PM
Post #10
Joined: 4.Oct.2009
You would think that a plump older gentleman would be easy to find and book for this task. I have never seen a female Santa before, is it something a kin to that Toy store magazine showing girls playing with guns and boys with dolls and prams I wonder?
10.Dec.2012, 02:59 PM
Post #11
Location: Sweden
Joined: 12.Sep.2011
I would say it is more to do with equal opportunities for employment and also over zealous implementation of gender equality legislation.
I would hate to see their version of the tooth fairy...
10.Dec.2012, 03:01 PM
Post #12
Location: Sweden
Joined: 12.Sep.2011
Something like this maybe?
10.Dec.2012, 06:16 PM
Post #13
Joined: 5.Jul.2012
No not that - that's klubbknickers.
10.Dec.2012, 06:20 PM
Post #14
Joined: 21.Dec.2006
Androgyny and multiculturism rule...
Men turn in your epidermis and gonads, as they are redundant! ...or not!
10.Dec.2012, 06:22 PM
Post #15
Joined: 5.Jul.2012
I was going to add something about Hen Christmas, but then the thought struck me, with all this de-personalization and de-Christianization we can hardly say Saint, or Christmas nowadays, so what in heck are we going to say hereafter.
Julhen perhaps? Since jul roughly translates to yule and by that we think of log - treetime perhaps ? ? ? ? ? ?
Then we can call the old 'person' in white whiskers for 'The Logger', or 'The Carpenter'. Heavens but the mind boggles at the thought.


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Front Range > Mount Wilcox > Climber's Log
Mount Wilcox Climber's Log
[ Sign the Climber's Log ]
|Climbed with McClellan, Edwards & Argentine
Date Climbed: Oct 30, 2005
|10/30/05 - Climbed with McClellan & Argentine. A nice fall day turned bad, but an enjoyable loop nonetheless. Started at Waldorf Mine.
3/15/12 - With Wilcox & Otter from Guanella Pass winter closure. Unusually warm winter day. Like mid spring up there!
|Posted Mar 30, 2008 11:52 pm
|Argentine and Wilcox
Date Climbed: Jul 22, 2007
|Wife, dog and I. Argentine and Wilcox loop from Silver Dollar.
|Posted Dec 28, 2007 6:27 pm
|from Waldorf Mine
Date Climbed: Oct 13, 2007
|I missed getting Wilcox when I did Square Top & Argentine on a snowy spring day. Came back and did it with McClellan/Edwards/Argentine/Otter, which made for a fine loop. Probably the last snow free day of the fall.
|Posted Oct 14, 2007 10:52 am
|Eric Holle
|Route Climbed: Guanella Pass Date Climbed: November 21, 2006
|Climbed Wilcox with Square Top, Argentine and Otter. Ben and I got to the summit of Wilcox and decided that we weren't ready to be done hiking for the day and went on to Otter. The hike back to the truck at Guanella Pass was an added bonus.
|Posted Nov 22, 2006 4:46 am
|Brian Kalet
|Southwest Ridge (ascent), Northeast face (descent)
Date Climbed: Sep 17, 2006
|From Argentine, Edwards and Argentine again; to Otter. 8 hours roundtrip.
|Posted Sep 18, 2006 5:09 pm
|Bushwack to E ridge
Date Climbed: Sep 6, 2006
|Bushwacked up from Silver Dollar Lake TH to E ridge. Recommended!
|Posted Sep 13, 2006 3:00 am
|the ridge from Argentine & Edwards
Date Climbed: Jun 5, 2006
|Tagged this mountain last as I hiked the ridge around from Mcclellan Mountain. Nice day. No one else up there all day.
|Posted Jun 6, 2006 12:26 am
|Wilcox and Argentine
Date Climbed: May 20, 2006
|Nice day and windy. Climbed Wilcox up eastern slopes above Naylor lake. Descended to saddle and then climbed Argentine.
|Posted May 22, 2006 4:37 pm
|Ryan Kowalski
|A nice winter hike
Date Climbed: Mar 12, 2005
|This was fun to have done, a good winter/fitness hike
|Posted May 20, 2006 3:51 am
|Route Climbed: Via Argentine Peak and Mount Edwards from Waldorf Date Climbed: 9 August, 2005
|Great end to a wonderful tour of the area. Climbed Edwards, Argentine and Wilcox both starting and finishing at the Waldorf Mine.
|Posted Aug 9, 2005 2:42 pm
|Route Climbed: Southwest Ridge Date Climbed: January 24, 2004
|After summitting Argentine and Edwards, we capped a bluebird January day with a climb of Mount Wilcox.
|Posted Jul 28, 2005 9:06 pm
|Route Climbed: East Slopes Date Climbed: JUne 11, 1989
|A fairly uneventful day, but a worthy climb nevertheless. In June you can find snowfields to speed your descent.
|Posted Jul 25, 2005 10:22 am
|Route Climbed: Argentine Peak Traverse Date Climbed: 23 July 2005
|After climbing Argentine Peak we descended the ridge to the saddle before the 500 vertical foot climb to the summit over tundra and talus. The return descended the saddle and followed the Leavenworth Creek road to the Waldorf mine.
|Posted Jul 24, 2005 11:46 am

subset: commoncrawl


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Dancing for Duchenne: 3 area bands to perform benefit for Saxtons River family
BRATTLEBORO -- Laurie Webb wanted to put on a benefit for her grandsons with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy. And, fortunately, she knows plenty of musicians.
Webb was able to recruit three area bands -- Wyld Nightz, Pretty Daddy and Otis and the Elevators -- to perform at an event scheduled for Saturday at the American Legion. "Dancing for Duchenne" is set to begin at 7 p.m. and raise money for a trio of charities dedicated to helping those affected by DMD.
Webb's daughter, Jenn McNary, has six children, two of whom suffer from Duchenne, an ultimately fatal degenerative muscle disease that affects roughly 20,000 children in the United States. Both Austin and Max Leclaire use the support of their family to live independent and productive lives, though their rare condition makes it a challenge. Max, 11, was eligible for a medical trial of Eteplirsen, a drug that greatly improved his quality of life. But Austin, 14, did not qualify and his condition has gotten progressively worse without the treatment. Max is able to walk while his older brother gets around in a wheelchair.
There is a suggested donation of $20 per person for Saturday's event and McNary said her entire family is attending in addition to former classmates of hers and her mother and some of her sons' friends. It is a child-friendly event.
McNary said it is touching to know so many people are willing to help one family.
"It feels really great. We've never asked our community for help and this is the time we've decided to do it. It will be a great time," she told the Reformer.
McNary also said the musical acts lined up prove cash isn't the only way to provide support for a cause you believe in. She said everyone has talents or abilities that can help others.
"You don't have to have a lot of money to do something that could support our event," she said.
Jeff Brewer, who plays guitar and banjo for Wyld Nightz, said he was first approached by Webb, who asked him to assist in a fundraiser for her grandsons. He said they used to work in the same building together. Brewer said he was on board right away and quickly asked his bandmates, who were happy to contribute.
He said he has a special place in his heart for children affected with muscular dystrophy. He spent three summers as a teenager taking care of a person with a type of the condition. Brewer grew up in Proctor and worked at a summer camp in Goshen, where he helped a resident from New York who was confined to a wheelchair as a result of his disease.
Mike Auerbach, of Pretty Daddy, said he and Brewer were talking together when Auerbach learned of the event.
"We're friends of some of the other musicians and we were happy to lend a hand," he said. "In a small community, we all have to help out any way we can."
The charities to benefit from the event are DMD Hero, a non-profit foundation dedicated to supporting awareness of Duchenne and advocating for people affected by the disease, as well as Darius Goes West, a nonprofit that supports research for a cure for DMD, and Northeast Disabled Athletics Association, a Burlington-based entity that provides athletes with physical disabilities the opportunity to participate in sports.
McNary said the family needs money for their lobbying efforts, as they have already made one attempt to petition the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to expedite the approval of Eteplirsen, the drug that has helped Max. McNary and Austin traveled to Washington, D.C., in February to advocate for the "miracle drug" with the assistance of U.S. Rep. Mike Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.).
Webb said a cash bar and light snacks will be provided. The snacks will be donated by Shaw's in Walpole (N.H.), Price Chopper and Hannafords in Brattleboro and The Grafton Cheese Company.
Door Prizes and Raffle prizes donated by area businesses: Justin Ferland Photography, Vermont Artisans, Burdick's Chocolates, Agway of Walpole, Bellows Falls House Bakery, Lark's fine women's accessories, Mr. G's, Artist Corey Armprester, Turn it Up, Walpole Village Salon, Baker's Hallmark, Real to Reel and Fireside True Value. Restaurants that have donated prizes include the Chesterfield Inn, Peter Haven's, Fireworks, The Marina, The Walpole Tavern, Champ's and Thin Crust Pizzeria.
Domenic Poli can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.com, or 802-254-2311, ext. 277. You can follow him on Twitter @dpoli_reformer.
If you'd like to leave a comment (or a tip or a question) about this story with the editors, please email us. We also welcome letters to the editor for publication; you can do that by filling out our letters form and submitting it to the newsroom.


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Town Square
Paul Stonebarger's court date
Original post made by interested, another community, on Apr 9, 2008
a resident of Foothill Farms
on Apr 10, 2008 at 9:24 am
Have not heard about that, but what about Katie's case...? Has she been tried yet? Does anyone know....
a resident of Downtown
on Apr 10, 2008 at 10:19 am
She's been given three continuances. Her next court date is tomorrow.
a resident of Downtown
on Apr 20, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Cholo - Can you blame anyone else? Stop calling her the KILLER DRUNK DRIVER! He was Laurel's CLOSE FRIEND not Katie's close friend and he is the one who provided the alcohol not Katie. He should get 4 years not her. Laurel didn't have to get into the car.
Katie will be out in 2 years. Prisons are over booked. Katie has learned her listen too......
a resident of Downtown
on Apr 25, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I have been reading the comments and someone in the crowd is VERY UNHAPPY!! Does anyone want to guess who? I'll give you a hint this person does not live in P-Town..
Get a hobby
a resident of Ridgeview Commons
on Apr 26, 2017 at 8:56 am
Due to repeated violations of our Terms of Use, comments from this poster are automatically removed. Why?


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What Is Emphysema?
Patient Comments Read 30 Comments
Emphysema is a long-term, progressive disease of the lungs that primarily causes shortness of breath due to over-inflation of the alveoli (air sacs in the lung). In people with emphysema, the lung tissue involved in exchange of gases (oxygen and carbon dioxide) is impaired or destroyed. Emphysema is included in a group of diseases called chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or COPD (pulmonary refers to the lungs). Emphysema is called an obstructive lung disease because airflow on exhalation is slowed or stopped because over-inflated alveoli do not exchange gases when a person breaths due to little or no movement of gases out of the alveoli.
Emphysema changes the anatomy of the lung in several important ways. This is due to in part to the destruction of lung tissue around smaller airways. This tissue normally holds these small airways, called bronchioles, open, allowing air to leave the lungs on exhalation. When this tissue is damaged, these airways collapse, making it difficult for the lungs to empty and the air (gases) becomes trapped in the alveoli.
Normal lung tissue looks like a new sponge. Emphysematous lung looks like an old used sponge, with large holes and a dramatic loss of "springy-ness" or elasticity. When the lung is stretched during inflation (inhalation), the nature of the stretched tissue wants to relax to its resting state. In emphysema, this elastic function is impaired, resulting in air trapping in the lungs. Emphysema destroys this spongy tissue of the lung and also severely affects the small blood vessels (capillaries of the lung) and airways that run throughout the lung. Thus, not only is airflow affected but so is blood flow. This has dramatic impact on the ability for the lung not only to empty its air sacs called alveoli (pleural for alveolus) but also for blood to flow through the lungs to receive oxygen.
COPD as a group of diseases is one of the leading causes of death in the United States. Unlike heart disease and other more common causes of death, the death rate for COPD appears to be rising.
What Causes Emphysema?
Cigarette smoking is by far the most dangerous behavior that causes people to develop emphysema, and it is also the most preventable cause. Other risk factors include a deficiency of an enzyme called alpha-1-antitrypsin, air pollution, airway reactivity, heredity, male sex, and age.
The importance of cigarette smoking as a risk factor for developing emphysema cannot be overemphasized. Cigarette smoke contributes to this disease process in two ways. It destroys lung tissue, which results in the obstruction of air flow, and it causes inflammation and irritation of airways that can add to air flow obstruction.
It is important to emphasize that COPD is often not purely emphysema or bronchitis, but varying combinations of both.
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The word emphysema is derived from Greek and means "to blow into," hence "air containing" or "air inflated."


text:
It took awhile for the engine to warm up on this chilly November evening.
But after revving it a few times and squealing the tires a bit, Fort Lewis College sped right through Northern New Mexicos road block.
The FLC mens basketball team forced 26 turnovers, held the Eagles without a field goal for the first 10 minutes, 4 seconds of the game, then simply rolled from there to an 83-52 victory in its home and regular-season opener Thursday at Whalen Gymnasium.
Skyhawks head coach Bob Hofman had little negative to say about the performance, one in which all 14 players in uniform saw time. Eight players made their Whalen Gym debuts for FLC (1-0), including Nick Tomsick, who led all scorers with 17 points.
Cade Kloster and Jared Smith caught Hofmans eye as each scored nine points, and Hofman admitted hell have some tough decisions to make regarding playing time as he looks to whittle his rotation down to a more manageable size.
Every player improved himself (Thursday), Hofman said. Every day we have to start making more difficult decisions about playing time.
FLC took three minutes to find the basket to open the game, but the Skyhawks exploded from there, going on a 19-0 run in the first half to grab a 19-1 lead, powered on the run by eight of Mike Matthews 16 points. Defense did the trick in that run and for most of the game, as the Eagles (3-5) shot just 25 percent in the first half and committed 26 turnovers in the game.
Guys who didnt have huge scoring nights still managed to make an impact in other areas. Ignacio High School product Alex Herrera had a respectable seven points, but he muscled his way to 10 rebounds, while fellow center Torrey Udall had seven points and six boards five on the offensive glass as the Skyhawks held a 44-32 rebounding advantage.
Starting point guard Matt Mazarei didnt find his way on the scoresheet, but he dished out nine assists, while Shane Jensen and Lucas Archuleta chipped in seven points each.
We have a lot of good guys. Weve got Chief (Herrera) taking over the post, and weve got Torrey, also a great post. Weve got a bunch of new guards, a lot of transfers, great players, and were a good scoring team, Matthews said. And I think itll be consistent throughout the season.
FLC shot the ball well, connecting at a 47-percent clip and made 11 of 30 from 3, a slightly high but acceptable number of attempts from distance in Hofmans estimation.
Eagles head coach Ryan Cordova, a former FLC assistant, picked up a technical foul after taking umbrage with what became a 23-14 disparity in fouls.
FLC and Northern N.M., an NAIA program, will meet again Nov. 24 in Grand Junction, but first, the Skyhawks will take a step up in competition, facing Dixie State next Friday, also in Grand Junction. Dixie State is receiving votes in the NABC Coaches Poll.
Were still trying to get some chemistry going with the new guys, and I think we did a good job of that (Thursday), Matthews said.


text:
Now I've uploaded the pictures from our drive through the hills and dales of Derbyshire and our visit to Chatsworth House. I hope you enjoy all the incredible scenery as much as we did!
Derbyshire Scenery
In and Around Chatsworth
P.S. – Whoops! I got a note from someone who said the Chatsworth photos would not enlarge. I figured out why and fixed the problem. Now you can click to get enlarged photos in that gallery. Thanks for letting me know, Lisa!


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As the two sports rivals face each other in "Rush," they share an observation: They might not have become champions without each other. Sometimes the thing you need to excel is a really good enemy.
The same principle provides the movie's appeal. The starkly drawn differences between our two race-car rivals are sketched early, and that's all the character development we need or get.
"Rush," directed by Ron Howard, isn't a deep experience, but it succeeds with two interesting roles and a lot of corny vroom-vroom racetrack footage.
The real-life rivals were Formula One drivers James Hunt and Niki Lauda, who competed in the 1970s. Hunt (played by Chris Hemsworth), a swaggering Englishman with rockstar looks, spends his time bed-hopping and whiskey-chugging. He's a poster boy for bad behavior.
Lauda (Daniel Bruhl) takes a methodical approach, which makes him a far less likable colleague than fun-loving Hunt, but he wins a lot of races.
They trade hostile barbs though, after a while, screenwriter Peter Morgan ("The Queen," "Frost/Nixon") shrewdly draws out the genuine respect and regard the two men share.
Hunt and Fouda are pretty much the whole show, except for spousal roles played by Olivia Wilde and Alexandra Maria Lara — whose tasks are pretty thankless, it must be said.
Hemsworth (best known as the hammering man in "Thor") has charisma to spare as Hunt, and given the once-over-lightly treatment of the character, he needs it.
The German actor Daniel Bruhl is a big star in Europe and perhaps best known here for his role in "Inglourious Basterds."
He makes Lauda a fussy, frowning technician of the sport, a real square who lives a clean life and goes to bed early.
The hunky face of Chris Hemsworth dominates the movie's posters, but the film itself sides more with Bruhl's Lauda.
You have to wonder: Does the famously clean-cut Ron Howard see himself in this modest technician? Howard's no colorful Tarantino or Scorsese, but a family man who makes inoffensive movies with broad appeal. No wonder Lauda gets some of the best lines.
The movie has Howard's tendency to over-explain everything, but the cars are handsome and the '70s look is authentic. In fact, this is the best Ron Howard film since — well, a heckuva long time. But who's counting.
"Rush" (3 stars)
A 1970s Formula One rivalry between drivers James Hunt (Chris Hemsworth) and Niki Lauda (Daniel Bruhl) makes for an enjoyable Ron Howard picture, with lots of vroom-vroom racetrack footage and authentic '70s atmosphere.
Rating: R, for nudity, language, violence.
Showing: Alderwood, Everett Stadium, Galaxy Monroe, Marysville, Guld 45th, Oak Tree, Pacific Place, Woodinville and Cascade Mall theaters.


text:
Irish Turf Celtic Cross 8" x 4"
Irish Turf Peat crafted. Celtic Cross. Fascinating crafted piece made from Irish turf peat which is over 5000 years old. A Celtic cross is a symbol that combines the cross with a ring surrounding the intersection. It is the characteristic symbol of Celtic Christianity, though the symbol has older, pre-Christian origins.
Click HERE if you would like more information on the availability of this product.
IrishTurf Peat crafted
Irish Celtic Cross
- Fascinating crafted piece made from Irish turf peat which is over 5000 years old.
- Comes in presentation box
- Handcrafted in Ireland
- Read more about the celtic cross below
8" x 4" (15.2cm x 7.6cm) approx
Celtic Cross
A Celtic cross is a symbol that combines the cross with a ring surrounding the intersection.
It is the characteristic symbol of Celtic Christianity, though the symbol has older, pre-Christian origins. Such crosses formed a major part of Celtic art. This design is also referred to as the Irish Cross, or as the Cross of Iona.
origins. Such crosses formed a major part of Celtic art. This design is also referred to as the Irish Cross, or as the Cross of Iona.
In Celtic regions of Ireland and Britain many free-standing upright crosses – or high crosses – were erected, beginning at least as early as the 7th Century. Some of these 'Celtic' crosses bear inscriptions in runes. There are surviving free-standing crosses in Cornwall and Wales, in the island of Iona and in the Hebrides, as well as the many in Ireland. Other stone crosses are found in Cumbria and the Scottish Borders, however some of these are of the similar Anglo-Saxon cross making tradition. The most famous standing crosses are the Cross of Kells, County Meath, Ireland, Ardboe Auld Cross, Ardboe, County Tyrone, Ireland,the crosses at Monasterboice, County Louth, Ireland, and the Cross of the Scriptures, Clonmacnoise, Ireland
There are numerous representation of crosses combined with a circle, even before Christianity. Often called 'sun cross', they can be found in Bronze Age Europe (Nordic Bronze Age, Urnfield culture).
The Old English word for cross as an instrument of torture is rood (literally 'pole', cognate with rod). The word cross in English derives only indirectly from Latin crux via Old Irish and possibly Old Norse, introduced in the 10th century.
Irish Myth
In Ireland, it is a popular myth that the celtic cross was introduced to the island by Saint Patrick during his time converting the pagan Irish. It is believed that he combined the symbol of Christianity, a cross, with the symbol of the sun, to give pagan followers an idea of the importance of the cross by linking it with the idea of the life-giving properties of the sun.
Political symbol
The cultural associations of the Celtic cross, and the sun cross from which it is derived, have been co-opted by white nationalist and neo-fascist groups since the 1960s. This is because of its connotations of Christianity, Western culture, and old European traditions. The symbol can also sometimes be identified with radical nationalists of a Third Positionist or Catholic nationalist persuasion.
Far right supporters usually use a basic design which is made up of simple lines, without any of the ornamental complexity of traditional Celtic crosses. In these recent adaptations, it is sometimes also called a sun wheel.
This new political connotation has almost eclipsed the traditional meaning of the symbol in France, Italy and many other European countries. In France, the symbol was adopted by the groups Occident and the Groupe Union Droit.
Celtic crosses are also associated with political movements advocating greater independence or other measures with respect to Celtic minorities, such as Breton nationalism.
Ireland 5000 Years Ago
In Ireland the Great Elk wandered through the forests and mountains, it was a land of sweeping mists, gentle rain and soft sunlight.
A land of pagan carvings and mysterious rituals.
A land when the soothing lilt of the harp floated over cool crystal lakes and rivers.
It was a time of Cu Chulainn and Queen Maeve and the Red Branch Knights.
This was, indeed the Celtic Twilight.
Today we have captured the very essence of that era.
Turf from that golden age has been excavated and hand carved to create our unique rang of turf ornaments


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And we're up after 3!
That's what I'm talking about, CONASO!
Garnett should just retire, what a bitch!
LMAO on Curry's flagrant on Rondo! That was beautiful
lmao @ Curry. **** was priceless
Damn player-centric usernames straight to hell.
One stop common!
Dirty ass team man, the New Utah Jazz the Boston CelDicks! That was sucio by Garnett what a ****ing bitch
AHHHH f*ck yes david
Damn player-centric usernames straight to hell.
f my life.
Damn player-centric usernames straight to hell.
Que Maricon!
Great game. Bad finish. Lee needs to step up the defense or put someone else in.
Eddy Curry was good today. Not his prowess with the basketball but for the fact that he can be the big bully that we have been missing all this time. Knicks get pushed around too much. At least to me I think it's good that he established to every NBA team that nobody will push him around in the paint.
Well, at least a good game. I saw some grit tonight. Also you have to acknoledge the excellent coaching on our last possession. Overall, I liked what I saw, maybe a bit too much gambling on that last possession and Harrington should have helped out but all in all I can see the improvement over the last three games.
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
Kurt Vonnegut
We had an effin foul to give!!! Use that ****!!!
I'm still proud of my Knicks though. We made good stops at the end, both at the end of the 4th and overtime. I'm happy that they're playing with more effort. Showing that competitiveness.


text:
ByColleen McCain Nelson
Vice President Joe Biden said Thursday that he views the administration's efforts to reduce firearms violence as gun safety – not gun control.
The vice president fielded questions online in a Google+ Hangout, saying the proposals that he and President Barack Obama have laid out won't end gun crime, but they still could make a difference.[wsj-responsive-more-in tag="Guns" category="" ]
Stemming gun violence has emerged as a priority for the Obama administration in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., school shooting in December. Mr. Obama already is moving ahead with 23 executive actions, and he's called on Congress to pass legislation that would require background checks for all gun buyers, ban high-capacity magazines and ban some semiautomatic rifles often called assault weapons.
On Thursday, Mr. Biden faced questions about the efficacy of a ban on some semiautomatic rifles. The vice president noted that those weapons are involved in only a small fraction of gun deaths but said the restrictions make sense because police officers are outgunned on the streets by criminals with high-powered firearms. On Capitol Hill, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.) and other Democrats unveiled legislation Thursday to ban certain types of semiautomatic weapons.
While he defended the proposed ban, Mr. Biden, who emphasized that he's a gun owner and a supporter of the Second Amendment, said he is more focused on limiting the capacity of magazines.
"There is no sporting need that I'm aware of for a magazine that holds 50 rounds," he said.
Mr. Biden pointed to the mass shooting in Tucson, Ariz., that critically injured former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. When the gunman paused to swap magazines, he was tackled, and lives were saved, the vice president said.
The president has called for limiting magazines to 10 rounds. Such restrictions would require congressional approval, and passing significant gun control legislation will be a heavy lift. Mr. Obama's proposals are expected to face opposition from most Republicans, as well as some Democrats. The National Rifle Association, the country's most powerful gun lobby, has been sharply critical of this effort.
Mr. Biden said that in the past, the NRA has been resistant to even less controversial measures because the organization argues that "it's a slippery slope" toward more restrictions on guns. Both the left and the right sometimes take absolutist positions, the vice president said, but the vast majority of Americans agree on certain basic principles relating to gun safety.
Earlier this week, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre defended absolutism as a virtue, saying that without absolutes, constitutional rights would be threatened. He said the NRA believes in the right to defend one's family with semiautomatic firearms.
Mr. Biden urged those who tuned in to his online interview to get involved, to speak up, even if they don't agree with all of the administration's ideas. With a tough slog expected in Congress, the president has said he's counting on the public to push for change.
"Write your congressman," Mr. Biden said as he wrapped up his chat.


text:
Training a brain for a car chase
by Sea Stachura, Minnesota Public Radio
Reprinted for PoliceOne members with permission of MN Public Radio
|This high-speed police chase ended when the police car crashed into a tree. A recent study examines how police officers react during high-speed chases. (Photo by Simon Baker/Getty Images)
Many people are concerned about the dangers of police chases. But until now there's never been a study about what happens to a police officer's brain during a chase. Research at Minnesota State University, Mankato raises questions about whether police training for chases is adequate.
Mankato, Minn.- To study how an officer's brain functions under stress, Jonathan Page, a psychology professor at MSU Mankato, designed a test that involved a series of beeps -- low, medium, and high.
"And those two, the medium and high, are fairly close to each other," he says.
Page's test examines cognitive ability while multi-tasking with sight and sound. That could be while driving a police car or listening to public radio on a Monday morning.
During the test, subjects were asked to count the number of high tones. They couldn't use their fingers.
As they were driving, they were asked to notice where the cars were around them, and perhaps the color of the next light. Where are the pedestrians? How about slick spots on the road, or maybe an ambulance coming up behind? These are the sorts of things a good pursuit driver would notice while following another car.
|Jonathan Page
Page conducted this research for the London Bobbies, better known as the Metropolitan Police Force. It hired the MSU Mankato's Force Science Research Center, which studies police behavior on the job.
The London police hired the center to examine how much training an officer needs to be safe in high-speed chases. Currently, a London officer must have six weeks of driver's training before he can pursue another driver.
Page found that a new officer who hasn't been through pursuit training wasn't able to pay attention to the beeps at all. In a mock high-speed chase, his heart raced, his eyes were glued to the car in front of him, and he had little idea what was happening around him. Page says that's typical of a human's fight-or-flight response.
"When you come under stress, in order to survive the brain does several things -- like increasing heart rate, blood flow, releases hormones like adrenaline and things like that," he says. "But to do all that, it takes away from just your average cognitive processes that you can do when there is no stress."
Page is still crunching the numbers on physiological response. Final results won't be available until August.
But Dr. Bill Lewinski, the executive director of the Force Center, says preliminary research replicates what B.F. Skinner found decades ago -- higher stress can mean higher performance, but it also can mean limited perception.
|Dr. Bill Lewinski, Force Science Research Center
Inexperienced drivers were less aware of their surroundings, and a bigger danger to their fellow drivers. Lewinski says the findings aren't limited to London, or high-speed chases.
"I was just looking at a report on a shooting today, a shooting that took place in Houston, Texas," Lewinski says. "The officer saw this gun come across, raised his gun and fired. When he was asked what was the person doing, what did you see? He said, 'I don't know. After I raised my gun it was kind of like a silhouette.'"
Lewinski says too much stress can mean an officer loses control, or reverts to instinctive behaviors that could get him in trouble.
He says one example is when an officer is faced with a perpetrator standing with a gun just a few feet away. Lewinski says typically, that shooter will aim for the head. And he says how an officer reacts is key to his survival.
"Most officers die at five to eight feet," he says. "And they die trying to get their gun up and shoot to save their life, so they're making an effort, and they're dying in the process. Is there something we can do to help officers in that situation survive?"
Practice with instruction, like the sort London officers get for six weeks, help them make fewer mistakes on the job. But how much training is enough is another question, as is what type? Lewinski says his center is trying to find out. He says scientific research on police behavior hasn't been done before.
"If most officers die going for their gun, maybe we should teach them to move first and then draw their gun so they put the bad guy behind the reactionary curve," says Lewinski. "Except, what level of training is necessary to do that? Because officers who have been taught when the gun comes up toward them, still go for their gun without moving."
Lewinski thinks law enforcement could take a cue from other professions.
"Even the medical field, with their level of training, makes mistakes. But they've worked really hard to minimize those mistakes. In law enforcement we let the officers make the mistakes. So we rely on experience. And the officer either sinks or swims," says Lewinski.
In Minnesota, to become a police officer a trainee must go through a peace officer training program, usually at a college or university. The minimum requirement for pursuit driving is two days.
Paul Monteen, standards coordinator for the Peace Officer Standard Training Board, says the MSU Mankato training program only provides those two days. Monteen says you can never have too much training.
"In a perfect world, I would probably train people the same number of hours that I expect them to work. Because I believe you will do on the street what you are trained to do, and what you practice," Monteen says.
He adds that Minnesota's training is adequate. Officers usually attend additional training programs on the job, but the amount of training varies from department to department.
Monteen adds that training opportunities are plentiful, but they're also expensive -- in part because the department has to find a replacement officer. Monteen says most officers train their entire lives for a situation they'll encounter just once, like a chase or a shootout.
Lewinski says he's trying to get a handle on how to make that training effective for those once-in-a-lifetime encounters.
About the author:
Sea Stachura is the Rochester bureau reporter for Minnesota Public Radio. She has worked for print and radio outlets across the Midwest and nationally. She holds an M.A. in journalism from the University of Missouri.


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user functions
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related links
Mark your calendar: The 2013 Distinguished Speaker in the Humanities
Contributed by Kimberly Anderson on 11/05/13
Stephen Greenblatt, Cogan University Professor of the Humanities at Harvard University and renowned author and Pulitzer Prize winner, will deliver a lecture entitled "The Humanities and the Toleration of Intolerable Ideas."
Why and how did the utterly unacceptable ideas reintroduced by a humanist's recovery of an ancient poem manage to survive and be transmitted during pre-Enlightenment centuries that had no concept of toleration? What role do scholars and artists play in making possible freedom of thought?
Join us in Emerson Suites at 7:30 pm on Wednesday, November 13, 2013! Admission is free, and all are welcome. A question and answer period as well as a book signing will follow.
Individuals with disabilities requiring accommodations should contact Kelly Stern at email@example.com or (607) 274-1375. We ask that requests for accommodations be made as soon as possible.
© Copyright Ithaca College. All rights reserved; unauthorized use prohibited. All material on this server is produced by our community but, except for designated pages, is neither approved nor verified by Ithaca College.


text:
When the going gets tough... Nicky Byrne pulls through
FORMER Westlife star Nicky Byrne and his partner Karen Hauer have lived to dance another day on Strictly last night.
Nicky secured a place in next week's show after judges' scores were combined with viewer votes
Not so lucky was 42-year-old showbusiness expert Richard Arnold and his partner Erin Boag.
Arnold became the latest contestant to leave 'Strictly Come Dancing' on the week the show swapped the Strictly ballroom for Wembley Arena.
Undaunted, however, Arnold still insisted the amazing thing about the show is that the "party is happening in millions of homes".
After judges' scores were combined with viewer votes, Arnold and his partner, Erin Boag, faced Nicky Byrne and his partner, Karen Hauer, for a place in next week's show.
Three of the four judges chose to save Byrne which meant Arnold had performed his final dance on the BBC1 show.
Judge Bruno Tonioli said that while both couples were "highly entertaining", he had to go with the "power and content" delivered by Byrne and Hauer.
Irish Independent


text:
Miley Cyrus continues to span generations with her current publicity blitzkrieg leading up to the release of fourth album Bangerz this Tuesday (October 8).
Last week, Cyrus inadvertently started a war of words with controversial '90s singer Sinead O'Connor after citing her as an influence on her much-discussed "Wrecking Ball" video in her Rolling Stone interview. O'Connor went on to write a series of "open letters" chastising the pop star, eventually demanding a public apology for what she considered disparaging remarks against people with mental illnesses.
Now, Cyrus seems to have raised the ire of Eurythmics' Annie Lennox, who took to her Facebook over the weekend (October 5) to post her own open letter regarding young females in the music industry, though she made a point not to name any names.
"I have to say that I'm disturbed and dismayed by the recent spate of overtly sexualized performances and videos. You know the ones I'm talking about," Lennox wrote. "It seems obvious that certain record companies are peddling highly styled pornography with musical accompaniment. As if the tidal wave of sexualized imagery wasn't already bombarding impressionable young girls enough…It's a glorified and monetized form of self harm."
After the posting quickly went viral, Lennox was moved to again address the issue on her Facebook page the following day (October 6) to clarify her original statements.
Read more from Annie's open letters on Radio.com


text:
Read the full editorial here Web Link posted Friday, March 22, 2013, 8:54 AM
Town Square
Editorial: High school counseling reforms inch forward
Original post made on Mar 22, 2013
Read the full editorial here Web Link posted Friday, March 22, 2013, 8:54 AM
Comments (46)
a resident of Los Altos Hills
on Mar 22, 2013 at 9:25 am
Obviously, progress is being made and Palo Alto Online continues to publish it's HIT pieces. Who wrote this "article" - what are you afraid of?
a resident of Palo Verde
on Mar 22, 2013 at 9:34 am
It looks like the Weekly and WCDB have just given up on getting equal treatment for Gunn and are just accepting this 3 year "inching forward' timeline as "about the best we can hope for." That's very disappointing. The board focused goal was for comparable services by the end of 2013-14. Now Kevin Skelly says he doesn't know what "comparable" means, and Mike Milliken says he just "decided" to "take it off the table." These are the same guys who also don't know what "civil rights" means or what "transparency" is. As the editorial says, this is "upside down" as is the board's relationship to Dr. Skelly et al. But then the editorial kind of throws up its hands and says "best we can hope for." That's a lame conclusion, editorial writer. Here's a substitute last paragraph:
"The board has reached the end of the line with Dr. Skelly's intransigence on Gunn counseling. After three years, seven board meetings, a faculty committee, a district-led multi-stakeholder process, two surveys, three consultants, more than a dozen focus groups, and two reports we aren't any closer to comparable services between Paly and Gunn. Meanwhile Gunn students continue to graduate having received lower quality services than the district offers just across town. The board has tried asking nicely, cajoling, praising, encouraging, and begging in private. None of that has worked. The board has to call Dr. Skelly's bluff and if that means replacing him, so be it."
That's the way you should have written it. Not "oh, well. Best we can hope for."
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 22, 2013 at 9:55 am
> Meanwhile Gunn students continue to graduate
> having received lower quality services than the
> district offers just across town.
And yet, Gunn students post higher scores on standardized tests. Gunn generally is ranked within the top thirty high schools in the US. Paly is ranked at 100-150.
So—just how important is Paly-style student counseling to high academic achievement.
How many Gunn students are denied access to college because of deficiencies in their counseling?
How many Gunn students fail to graduate from college—because of their not having a Paly-style guidance program available to them in high school?
How many Gunn students end up being homeless in later life because of not having access to guidance counselors that meet the WCDB expectation?
Anyone know the answers to these questions?
a resident of Palo Verde
on Mar 22, 2013 at 10:15 am
"Wondering" is wondering"How many Gunn students end up being homeless in later life because of not having access to guidance counselors" because that is apparently now the test of whether or not the district should provide equivalently good services. Or maybe it's Stanford admissions -- lucky for Gunn that faculty kids, with their admission preference, live in the Gunn attendance area. Born on third, thought they hit a triple again.
Unless the Weekly thinks that the benefits delivered by Dr. Skelly, Milliken, and Young somehow outweigh dishonesty, incompetence, federal civil rights investigations, cover-ups, intrasigence, ruined community relationships, and not knowing the definition of "comparable" 2 years after you suggested it (reminiscent of Kevin also not knowing the definition of "connectedness" at St. Mark's -- a definite pattern!) -- then why isn't the Weekly telling us that this is the "best we can hope for" instead of "show him the door"?
What is the calculus here? As Wynn Hausser said a few weeks ago when the OCR story broke, if any normal manager was to disobey direct instructions from his superior on a regular basis like this he'd be gone. Weekly, enlighten us as to why this "is just the best we can hope for" in the richest district in the state?
a resident of Gunn High School
on Mar 22, 2013 at 10:23 am
It's time for the Board to stop accepting intransigence and inaction from top district officials and a principal. These officials should be meeting clear performance metrics or their should be consequences to their positions.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 22, 2013 at 10:53 am
>> Obviously, progress is being made and Palo Alto Online continues to publish it's HIT pieces. Who wrote this "article" - what are you afraid of?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 22, 2013 at 10:58 am
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 22, 2013 at 11:27 am
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Mar 22, 2013 at 2:34 pm
Funny thing is, all these Chinese immigrants want to be in the Paly district. We have told many of them that Gunn scores are far better and have been for quite a while, but they say, no, no everyone in China knows Paly, never heard of Gunn. Sad, but true, go figure.
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 22, 2013 at 4:35 pm
I cannot believe that this month they had very close calls (suicide attempts) at Gunn Campus, and Skelly, board members and Villalobos still taking their sweet time to improve the broken Gunn counseling. Skelly and his officers work at the speed of a snail. May be they forgot that we still in crisis. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 22, 2013 at 6:34 pm
Wait, we have a Superintendent, an Assistant Superintendent, and an Associate Superintendent? More than one Associate Superintendent? Anymore blankety-blank Superintendents around making more than the governor of the state of California each? And we can't afford more counselors or a full-time nurse at any of the elementaries or middle schools?
While we're on the subject of revisiting procedures, do we have any mechanism at all for streamlining and improving the very expensive administration of this district? (Aside from the board, we all know how that works out.)
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Mar 22, 2013 at 6:49 pm
I am a recent Paly grad (now in college) and do not believe that the TA system at Paly is superior to the traditional college counselor system employed by Gunn and most high schools. Most of my friends would agree with this assessment. I posted a similar comment last week.
The quality of TAs varies tremendously and most TAs, with the exception of two or three, were poorly trained and had little understanding about the college admissions process. TAs didn't get to know their students well since TA sessions are infrequent and simply involve TAs reading off a couple announcements. Very few TAs are actually familiar with the demands of the college admission process — we received little advice about teacher letters of recs and how to approach the common app essays — and most do not understand the importance of letters of recommendation: one page of boilerplate with one or two anecdotes is no going to cut it when students at other schools are receiving 2 page, personal letters.
When Gunn has far more students getting into top schools than Paly (even though the two have nearly identical average test scores), I find it difficult to believe that the TA system is working. In fact, the year I was applying to college Paly's SAT scores were better than Gunn's and our top students were just as or even better qualified. But only a handful got into Stanford (as opposed to 25+). At Harvard, we had one admit versus over 10 at Gunn. 3 or 4 at Princeton versus nearly 20. The same applied to almost any other top school. And any good student at Gunn or Paly would tell you that Gunn students were not any better.
What's most unfair about the TA system is the inconsistency. Even with training this is not going to change. Some TAs are lazier than others, some are not as good recommenders, etc. Almost everyone who got into at top college my year had the same TA. She was a much better recommender than the others, even called schools of students behalf, talk to teachers who were writing recommendations for her students, edit student essays, and had done private counseling. Meanwhile, other TAs provided boilerplate letters of rec and little to no assistance.
If anything, traditional college counselors, if trained properly, are superior to TAs. There is more consistency since they all work together and they understand the system (if properly trained). It's also their job to provide good counseling. (There is less accountability with TAs.)
The college admissions system is getting increasingly competitive and it is a shame that students at Paly with 2300 SATs are getting denied admission to Berkeley, UCLA, and even UCSD. Ideally, we would not have a TA system, but 12-16 guidance counselors that students can meet individually with weekly or bimonthly. These counselors would be professionally trained, would work with professional college consultants to better understand the workings of admissions offices, and would promote Paly and Gunn's excellence to colleges as well as its relative difficulty. (This is what private and magnet schools do. Most colleges do not realize that grading at Paly is much more difficult than at other schools.) They would edit students' personal statements and work to make sure they complete their applications correctly. In other words, they would provide the services that external paid college consultants usually provide. BUT they would provide them to all students, so that not only those whose parents can afford or agree to professional consulting are at an advantage.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Mar 22, 2013 at 6:59 pm
Hi Paly grad, I too am a recent high school grad away at college but avidly following the issue of counseling at my old high school. Like you probably I'm headed out to a party soon but thought I would post to old PA Online first.
A lot of my friends are attending Stanford, and they get to see their folks a lot because they are on the faculty. I didn't see much of my counselor, but Mom and Dad paid for help for me. Wow, you really want a lot of counselors! Sounds like real empire!
a resident of Professorville
on Mar 22, 2013 at 9:01 pm
Paly Grad
Many so-called "professional" independent college counselors do not have experience working in admissions nor a school counseling office; they helped their own kids through the application process and decided to go into business because of the (sometimes needless) demand. While many might have attended Cal, UCLA or UCSD certificate programs in college counseling, that doesn't mean they have experience or expertise--nor relationships with colleges. Unfortunately, several cite incorrect facts and give bad advice--and get paid a lot for it. Please do not assume independents would be better than professional, certificated teachers and counselors--especially since the goal of a Guidance department includes much more than college counseling. One of the main reasons many want TAs at Gunn is about student-adult contacts, not college letters.
And, at Paly there are college advisors who provide expertise on the college admissions process (they have been trained by deans of elite colleges and continue professional development as well as visit colleges) who interact directly with college admissions, provide tools and suggestions for colleges exploration, will review college lists, and discuss and review college essays, and offer lots of workshops for students. Sounds like you did not take advantage of this service.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Mar 22, 2013 at 11:50 pm
@Paly parent: Many professional, independent college counselors may not have experience working in admissions, but most in the area do. Take a look at most of the professional college consultants in Palo Alto and Menlo Park and you'll find many former Stanford associate admission deans. Yes, their assistants may not have admissions experience, but the actual consultants do.
At Paly, it was no secret that many, if not most, of the top students had private college counselors. Almost all of these consultants had worked for years in top admissions offices and cost anywhere from $4,000 to $12K+. Almost every person who got into Harvard, Yale, Princeton my year had a professional college consultant. I'm not saying that these private consultants still have relationships with colleges, but they do have tremendous expertise in helping students with personal statements and the application process that the guidance counselors at Paly simply didn't have.
Yes, there are guidance counselors at Paly, but because we have the TA system, we only had two guidance counselors. Meeting with them was difficult and interactions very rushed. They also had little advice about the actual application and did not look over applications (as do private counselors and guidance counselors at some private schools). While they met with college admissions representatives and visited colleges, so do guidance counselors at any HS. What they did not do was explain to colleges how much more difficult grading at Paly is than at others schools in the Bay Area or the state.
Perhaps the TA system at Gunn will be better, but as I explained there was little to no student-adult contact in the Paly TA system. We met every other week. The TA passed out hand outs, collected hand outs, made announcements. That was it. We had no one-on-one meetings, never went over our applications, and never discussed possible colleges.
I agree that student-adult contact is extremely important. That's why I strongly believe there should be no TAs, but 10-16 guidance counselors. Each counselor should have 25-30 students and meet eventually with them individually for an hour every other week. They would review college lists, discuss and review college essays (as you suggested they do and I believe they should). The difference is that with 10-16 counselors they could actually do this, as opposed to the two overwhelmed counselors we have.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 23, 2013 at 8:02 am
"Paly Grad" sounds more like a Gunn teacher. He/she doesn't seem to have the facts straight about Paly, which is kind of a giveaway. For one thing Paly has 4 guidance counselors not 2. They have a college counselor for each class who loops with that class. Paly also has 2 college counselors.
Paly grad writes that "Meeting with them was difficult and interactions very rushed. They also had little advice about the actual application and did not look over applications (as do private counselors and guidance counselors at some private schools). While they met with college admissions representatives and visited colleges, so do guidance counselors at any HS"
This is super interesting since the guidance counselors at Paly don't even do college counseling at all, they do social emotional counseling.
Finally, I read over the GAC report and low and behold, the 10-16 counselor plan that "Paly Grad" proposes is the same plan that the Gunn counselors proposed. I wonder what 10-16 counselors would cost? Oh, over a million dollars a year more than what Paly spends. And how will they try to drum up support for that? By fearmongering among Gunn parents that their kids won't get into good colleges like those dupes and dopes across town who just have to go to Foothill instead of Princeton because TA is so terrible.
Get real. It's over. Paly has a good system and we are not hiring 16 counselors at Gunn so that we don't have to make the switch.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Mar 23, 2013 at 10:53 am
I graduated in 2011 and I saw my counselor 4 times during all of high school. Gunn counseling sucks. Anyone who says it doesn't is either a total kiss-up or a liar. No Gunn student thinks anything about it. Those counselors have no idea who you are or what you want. They just tell you to go to Chico even if you could go o a UC. My friend was so upset after her meeting with a counselor she cried for days. Her counselor [portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff] spend 3 minutes with her and told her to go to Chico and then her parents got a private counselor and she went to Davis. Are you kidding? Srsly. I know a hundred stories like that. They are useless. If you want to improve Gunn counseling you should start over with people who care for a start. The reason for all those Stanford admits is faculty parents plain and simple. That's obvious. The rest is BS. Any real Gunn student will tell you counseling is a joke that's the fact.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 23, 2013 at 10:53 am
[Post removed due to same poster using multiple names]
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 23, 2013 at 11:14 am
why weekly is running the school these days???
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Mar 23, 2013 at 11:17 am
Paly Parent 2 -
Depending on when "Paly Grad" graduated, many statements were true. Having 4 guidance counselors is recent, as I believe is 2 full time (vs one full, one part time) college counselor. Paly has chosen to devote a significant amount of money to the Guidance program as a whole. Gunn (I believe) spends more money on keeping English classes small because they have a large ESL population.
What "Paly grad" said about the TA system is still true. Most TA's do little more than hand out forms. My daughter graduated in 2010 (I have a current Paly student also). Her TA never met with her one on one over the 3 years she had him. He actually forget that he was her TA during an unrelated meeting her senior year. He never discussed what classes she should take, whether she was on track for A-G or even if she was on track for graduation. (Mom and Dad took care of that).
Paly's 4 guidance counselors (one for each grade) are there for social/emotional issues. The handle IEP's and 504's and are actually quite available to the students and very helpful. The guidance staff at Paly is terrific.
The 2 college counselors are very well informed, one works with the juniors "loops" with them, the other with the seniors (also a newer thing).
Most TA's are more of homeroom teachers, there to pass out forms, get them enrolled in classes, etc.
a resident of Charleston Meadows
on Mar 23, 2013 at 12:24 pm
So it looks like Paly has 6 counselors and a bunch of homeroom-TA teachers. Gunn has 7 counselors. Why doesn't Gunn get 10 counselors and keep the small English classes? That would put the ratio at 1:190 about the same as teachers have (1:150) without the teaching load. What is the point of changing systems? It kind of looks like Paly counseling is quietly going over to the Gunn model by hiring more counselors. The TA's don't really seem to serve much function. Also, why is Gunn catering to ESL when the money should go to all of the students for social/emotional support?
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Mar 23, 2013 at 3:24 pm
@ Paly parent. My apologies. I meant 2 college counselors instead of 2 guidance counselors. I honestly didn't know there was a difference, since none of my friends or me ever met with any of the guidance counselors. I'm sure the guidance counselors do great work, but they don't really help out with college counselors. Again, sorry for confusing the two.
We did meet with the two college counselors, but again, meeting with them was difficult, infrequent, and often unhelpful, since they simply had too many students to keep track of. And what Gunn Grad says is true. Students who could definitely get into UCs were told to apply to Chico and community colleges. I ask my counselor to go over my personal statement, but she just looked at it and said it looked fine. No feedback, no suggestions on what to improve. The college counseling system is not good as it is, but if staff is increased and the counselors trained effectively it will be much more consistent and effective than the TA system.
I still don't get what the point of the TA system. You meet with a teacher here and there, get hand outs. They barely know who you are, do not go over your essays, or help you with your college list. (One TA did which was unfair to students who had other TAs. Again, she was a private counselor on the side with a very good track record, which made it especially unfair.) Why not have the adult-student relationship with a college counselor who you meet with one-on-one for two years, who looks over your essays, helps you finalize your colleges, is actually knowledgeable about the process, and provides you a level of service that is consistent with what other counselors are providing?
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 23, 2013 at 3:33 pm
One thing I have found in my tenure as a Paly parent is that things are never static. My youngest child is reaping the benefits of continued improvements that staff and parents have worked hard to implement. Block scheduling, later start, tutorial, link crew additional counseling staff and an increased role for TA's are just some of the improvements implemented since my oldest child attended Paly. Some of these improvements were borrowed from Gunn. Paly administrators told the board they are closely reviewing the Gunn GAC report to see if some of the recommendations might be a fit for Paly.
Last year Paly added an additional counselor so that there is now one counselor assigned to each grade. That counselor follows our students throughout their time at Paly. Each year the counselors only need to focus on one grade level and the challenges that are particular to that grade. The Paly guidance staff is also implementing structural changes that do not cost money like adding one on one appointments with TA's. This was a response to the recommendations that came out of the student guidance surveys last year. According to my child she is required to meet privately with her TA at least once each year. I also like that TA's are working directly with the guidance staff to identify students who may need additional support in areas of academic or social emotional needs. Often students who are most in need of help are the least likely to seek help.
The Paly system is by no means perfect but the TA's add an extra set of eyes that I find valuable in a large high school population. I think the TA services go far beyond the homeroom teachers I had, but if that was all they were providing that would still add value. As a parent I also appreciate that my child's TA is available to answer my questions or refer me to the staff member who can answer my question. I get better service and this frees up valuable time for the guidance counselors.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Mar 23, 2013 at 4:03 pm
@weekly reader
I think the question of eliminating small English classes came up because. As Paly used additional dollars towrds guidancee improvements Gunn was funding smaller English classes. The board has made it clear that they will increase funding to improve guidance. With a focus goal on improving A-G I assume the board will want the small English classes to continue to support the ESL students. In the big pictue funding for Titan coaches is not a big number.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 23, 2013 at 4:05 pm
Paly Grad, if the college counselors were so bad and so poorly trained then why would you want to hire 16 of them? How will hiring 16 more make them better trained or have them explain to colleges that Paly has harsher grading than other schools? Why should PAUSD have harsher grading anyway? That sounds like a separate issue of fake "rigor" that is hurting our students. How will hiring 16 counselors at the cost of over a million dollars per year including benefits solve the problems you identify and how will it create more relationships with more adults for students?
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 23, 2013 at 5:26 pm
> why weekly is running the school these days???
Well no one else is. Skelly is running it into the ground. And the Board is fiddling watching him do it. So someone needs to step into the vacuum. Why not the Weekly?
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 23, 2013 at 10:07 pm
I watched the board meeting, and this is what I learned:
There are 2 types of counseling
1. College & Career counseling:
2. Guidance counseling:
VERY different counseling functions- like worlds apart, but when people talk about counseling, they mix it up all the time.
Just to point out how different experiences can be...The young lady student on GAC, a transfer student gushed about how fantastic her counseling experience has been at Gunn. She mentioned she's been at Gunn 8 months. A Junior. Of course her experience has been wonderful. For starters, she was not here for 9th and 10th grade, and she is practically an adult right now. She likely receives Junior level college counseling.
That is SO different than our regular warriors of PAUSD - surviving middle school homework, entering HS with thousands of students as a relatively young adults. All this "growing up" is going on, and not everyone is perfect. 9th and 10th graders obviously don't need to have Junior level college and career counseling, but there's the planning ahead and explaining how things work in HS.
So, the reality is that whenever people point out their "personal counseling experience", they should first clarify, is it College counseling or Guidance counseling? What grade level, what specific needs?
And then, people need to think about the fact that needs will vary - there are students who make mistakes, who may struggle emotionally or academically, or socially. Maybe they have a parent who is ill, or they have lost a family member, or parents are divorcing. Or maybe they are discouraged because they are not as good as they would like to be. Or maybe they have financial pressures at home. I know, you want to say, suck it up! But the whole point about counseling is to support students who need the support.
The student on the BOE suggested students to drop in on the counselors. Is this a College and Career counselor or a Guidance counselor? For college counseling, good suggestion. Skelly was nodding his head at this, again confusing the two types of counseling.
Very young adults are not as organized to put it on their agenda to seek help. They sometimes don't even know they are hurting, or that they need help. Sometimes they may be so stressed they are not thinking straight.
The BOE asked for metrics, PLEASE always distinguish the different types of counseling. Both types of counseling are important, and they are intertwined, but you cannot measure all counseling based on the colleges kids are getting into. Or create a system, which is measured by the wrong metrics.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 23, 2013 at 10:14 pm
In my previous post, I assumed the definition of Guidance Counseling as focused on broader needs than college and career counseling. While it also involves school, obviously, It's about more than that.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 23, 2013 at 10:18 pm
one last clarification to my post,
Very young adults are not as organized to put it on their agenda to seek help (from a GUIDANCE counselor). They sometimes don't even know they are hurting, or that they need help. Sometimes they may be so stressed they are not thinking straight.
They may actually go to a college counselor, and not know they should be going to a guidance counselor.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 24, 2013 at 10:15 am
This just in, mercury news calls for Skelly's termination citing dishonesty and "memory problems." Are we there yet?
Web Link
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 24, 2013 at 10:43 am
Paly Parent 2
Mercury news article you posted
"Was the superintendent's job at risk? Nope. At a February meeting board members were as cordial and deferential as ever while Skelly, his administrators and lawyer explained away the incidents.
Instead of taking Skelly to task, the board will spend $150,000 to hire a "communications specialist."
At the recent BOE meeting, Skelly or someone called improving counseling a journey? That sounds painful, a "journey" with Skelly and this board. That's one of their many problems, everything is a journey. Is it really that complicated?
PAUSD Superintendent and the district have not identified any problems on their own - they are so busy self-congratulating. Counseling reform, zero action until a community group demanded change; now a harassment and a bullying policy only after there is an OCR violation, nothing on the achievement gap until it was a public issue.
The board is irresponsible and reckless to make taxpayers pay for incompetence from a key leadership position. Skelly's communication mishaps waste valuable time, and spill over to staff. Nobody talks straight anymore. Nobody.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Why aren't the two high schools given equal treatment? Why does seemingly every school in the district have a separate set of rules? This isn't San Jose Unified with its "magnet school" that have been such a failure. Every kid at every school should have comparable programs and equal access to counselors. How did the district get so disorganized? I have lived in five states and three different countries and I have never, ever seen a school district where schools are treated so unequally.
Never, to my knowledge has there been such an ineffectual tail-dragged as Kevin Skelly. He should resign before he is fired, while he still has a slim chance of finding employment elsewhere. He is certainly too out of touch and dishonest (and withholding) for his current employment.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 24, 2013 at 1:05 pm
It's like the Paly system has a C- and Gunns counseling system has a D-, and people are like: why can't Gunn be more like Paly. It's obvious Gunn's system needs to change, but the answer based on the responses in the survey isn't necessarily to be like Palys
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 24, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Paly gets more like a B+ than a C-. Paly's system is great and improving. It has a good enough baseline to iterate on for improvement. Gunn's system is broken and dysfunctional. The fact that they Gunn staff believes it can only be made comparable by hiring 10 more counselors should alert you to the fact that we have to start over.
Right now the PAUSD has a crisis of leadership. The editorial for this thread calls it a "leadership vacuum." The Weekly calls it 'surreal," "astonishing," and points to a "disconnect" between board policy and staff action. Today's Mercury News calls Skelly dishonest and all but accuses him of a cover-up of the multiple federal civil rights investigations and findings. How long is the school board going to allow Skelly's lack of leadership, dishonesty, "surreal" performance, and 'disconnect" from the board to tarnish the PAUSD reputation for excellence. He's a regional story and the board appear pathetic and exposed as not being in control. The whole thing is starting to push the envelope on acceptable.
Please board, take control before there are more scandals, lawsuits, and more embarrassment. Our whole community is suffering because you are unable to pull the trigger. Is this, as the Weekly says, "the best we can hope for?"
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 24, 2013 at 5:29 pm
During the election (when Skelly was hiding the OCR cases from Dauber incidentally) there was a question at the Terman forum : has the Supe gone rogue? Melissa and Camille praised him, Heidi didn't answer. Dauber talked about the need for transparency and accountability. Prescient. Now we know that it was worse than we even dreamed. Camille Townsend and Heidi Emberling are just going to send PAUSD down the tubes with Skelly. Sad.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 24, 2013 at 7:27 pm
The board had a chance to send Skelly out before March 15. For some reason, they didn't do it. It is likely that he convinced them that this was all the Weekly's fault, the Daubers' fault, WCDBPA's fault, everyone but the board, which is in charge of Skelly. Every single day that goes by is a testament to the board's ineffectiveness. They will now go down as one of least-talented groups ever. If any of them are thinking of future political office, don't even think about it. As for Skelly, he has made laughingstocks of the entire city. Everything is a PR ploy to him: biking around in his watermelon helmet, driving an economy car on his $750 a month car allowance, or holding a candle for the student who his system let down. I don't know how else to describe this but as a sick joke.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 24, 2013 at 9:27 pm
Paly parent 2
"Paly gets more like a B+ than a C-. Paly's system is great and improving. It has a good enough baseline to iterate on for improvement. Gunn's system is broken and dysfunctional."
And if they could keep the metrics straight, differentiating between Guidance and College counseling, it could actually all work out fine for Gunn without having to clone the Paly system.
I really liked the Sophomore program that was brought up with GAC. For any counseling, it must all be grade and age appropriate. The "grid" that was brought up should have columns for each grade level, with sub-categories for transfer students, special needs students, and all the lines with all the services distinguish for whether it's a college counseling service or a guidance service.
Clumping all grade levels and all types of counseling together just causes non-stop debate.
I'm sure Paly will have holes to fill in the grid, but I completely agree that what Paly has is a very thoughtful structure to deliver.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Mar 25, 2013 at 9:00 am
Will the current situation inspire additional people to run for the School Board? I certainly hope so.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Mar 25, 2013 at 10:57 am
If you want to assign blame for the total school autonomy look to the board. Camille Townsend loves the fact that schools can do their own thing and teachers can express their creativity by using different field trips, different text books (as long as they cover the state standards) in the same grade at the same school. It is an attitude that is pervasive in the district and is supported by much of the board. For Skelly to overcome this, he needs support from the board--and there is none--that is one of the reasons Barbara Klausner did not seek re-election.
There is no board or district leadership to standardize things--like training and procedures on bullying. Each school site has to come up with its own approach to educate kids about bullying. Do you know how wasteful that is???? But again, Principals are allowed to do as they please and be "different" because the environment of every school is unique--give me a break!
Paly may have a better system to help kids get connected, but there are gaps and it does cost >$100K to run it (teachers have to have 1 period free for the TA work)--but not saying the extra $$ are not worth it.
Parents cannot pick the school that their child goes to--maybe that should be changed. If you feel Paly is a better fit, go there, and vice versa. But that would create chaos. So it is time to standardize things--bell schedules, services available (counseling), and resources available (theater, music, athletics). Make it equal.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 25, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Someone should do a petition to change leadership. All these scandals just don't make sense for a district as prominent as ours.
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 25, 2013 at 8:49 pm
This site control idea is a real sign that the bureaucrats are running the show and giving the middle finger to the school board members. When the employees start ignoring the boss you have a real problem.
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 25, 2013 at 9:17 pm
It would be so nice if this awful situation were to inspire others to run for the school board, but Palo Alto has a lot of dirty secrets. One of them is an email smear campaign that trashes candidates who are interested in reform. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staf.] Palo Alto voters chose — and now deserve — the amateurish board they wanted.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 25, 2013 at 9:50 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 25, 2013 at 10:28 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of another community
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:24 pm
village fool is a registered user.
@editor - would it make sense to list this thread, and editorial also under schools&kids, Town Square?
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Mazda RX-8 Prices Paid and Buying Experience
mfenton Posts: 9After waiting for months I finally picked up my 2006 RX-8 AT GT today. Leased it from Galpin Motors in Valencia, CA. Phantom Blue w/ Black Leather. Been waiting for the AT's since driving a stick in Los Angeles is a nightmare. Paying 370.00/month 36 month lease
acg1 Posts: 1just picked a used mazda RX-8 2004 Manual with all options except navigation and 6 cd changer( though it has the BOSE)
for $18800 with 11700 miles . I thought it was a great deal. After seeing what others are paying for a new one, i dont know if it is a great deal anymore. Guys with recent buying experience, did i do ok?
I'd say you probably saved 5 or 6 grand over a new one, so not too bad i guess. Got my 05 GT AT back in Feb for 24,200.
late8 Posts: 7Bought a '06 RX-8 6mt Black w/ Sport/Spoiler/Splash guards $28,214 OTD in Antioch CA.
max_ Posts: 1I've been looking for an RX-8 for some time now. Most dealers are quoting $200 to $300 over invoice for a 2006 MT (any trim) and will quickly go to invoice -- AFTER the current $1000 cash back and $500 financing incentive.
This seems to be more or less what people here seem to pay give or take over the years, but can anyone post recent buying experiences? I am in So. Cal.
cruzdreamer Posts: 12acg1...sounds like a good price to me....I am selling my silver RX8 GT automatic with black/red leather, rotary pkg, RX8 piano black b pillars and winter tires for $19,000 and I have 35,000 miles on it so I'd say you got a decent deal!
caranddriver Posts: 4I am looking at a used 2005 RX-8 MT with 3800 miles and no options. Silver with black interior. Garaged. Bought 2/06 from dealer. The seller is asking $19K obo.
Is this a good deal?
heeno Posts: 7As a owner of 93 RX7...love/hate I'm considering a new 2006 RX8, 6 speed. Anything I should know about t his car, any packages or options I should consider or stay away from. Thanks!
pathstar1 Posts: 1,015Have you test driven one? As a fellow owner of a 93 RX-7 I think you may not be happy with the power delivery. It's like waiting for boost to come on in your RX-7. Test drive one before you get too serious. The RX-8 is fast, it's just sneaky how it gets there without slamming you into the seat. You'll love the transmission, you'll love the rev. band. You can choose between 3-4 gears at most speeds. You'll love the room inside - passengers - it can carry passengers! And lots of luggage! It handles at least as well as a well set up 3rd gen. too. If you are tall (upper body) stay away from the sunroof - you loose an inch of head room. Other than that, I haven't seen any "issues" with the different packages.
Be aware it comes with "summer" tires. If you plan to drive it in cold climates with ice and snow, you will need appropriate tires. You can get nice aluminum wheels and winter tires for about $300 per corner - we chose AR wheels and Nokian WR tires. They work great in rain,ice, and snow.
Those are the only things I know of to watch out for.
mcusmc Posts: 7We ordered our Winning Blue GT w/Nav 2006 RX-8 AT on April 8, and it finally went into production the week of June 9. It should be at the dealers on August 8. We had been wanting to special order a 2006 since last August. One whole year, we certainly hope it will be worth it! Well, now we are going to get hit with the new 7% state sales tax that NJ just increased by 1%. That adds $320 or so to the price. I am not happy about this. We have never had to go thru so much trouble to buy anything. Anyone else waiting so long for a 2006 AT? I'll keep in touch.
Wow. Waiting that long to experience your RX-8 AT is amazing. To maximize the experience then, I recommend planning a whole series of weekend driving trips. The RX-8 AT is a fantastic highway cruising vehicle. Of course, Winning Blue is going to make an easy target for the HP. I've also found that running through rural highway systems at 60MPH or below in full AT is really nice and relaxing too. You Sun roof will be really nice on a tree lined country lane. And you can't get lost either, bonus.
You're gonna love your RX-AT.
I am about to buy a 2005 RX-8. I am deciding between two cars. I think I am getting a great price. One has 19,800 miles and lists for $19,999. The other has just 3,775 miles, but it was just traded and say that can probably give it to me for about $1,000 more. I have a big concern from what I have read about the car needing premium gasoline. Is this true? If so, it will definately give me 2nd thoughts about buying an RX-8. Thanks!
The RX-8 will run 87 octane, it's just not recommended, because of the lower performance and because of the slightly higher risk of preignition. But if Premium gas concerns you enough to not buy the car, then you'll probably really dislike the gas millage no matter what type gas you run. If you're driving in lots of city traffic, you millage is going to be less than 14 MPG. Strictly highway is 23-25MPG.
I just picked up my Velocity Red, 6 speed RX8 from Faulkner Mazda in Northeast Philadelphia Today. Orinigal msrp - $30,865. Includes Touring pkg, alarm sensor upgrade and spare tire kit.
Dealer had dropped it to $24,500. I paid $23,500. The car is truly new with 78 miles on it. I have to say that this is the best 23 grand I spent on anything. As a three time Porsche Boxster owner, the RX is more fun, better built, handles as good if not better and faster than the pre 01 boxsters. You gotta love a car that is at its best over 5,000 rpm's!
I guess my question is, did I get a decent deal? I know that I got what is in reality a two year old car with the 07's right around the corner, but the differences of the 05's versus the 06 six speeds is neglegeable.
If anyone is interested, they have one more '05, RX8 on the lot. Exasctly the same as mine with the exception being the Bose 6 disc, in dash cd changer as opposed to my single.
I too bought a leftover - just different years. 04 left on the lot and I got it in March 05. I got almost the exact deal as you. Car stickered somewhere around $30???, dealer priced it at $27???, minus rebates for financing with Mazda, and minus $2K in equity on my trade. Financed $21,???.
I felt great about my deal and still do. I still love this car after a year and a half. When I go car shopping, I put the worry of depreciation completely out of my head. Let's face it, the average daily driver that most of us can afford is NEVER an investment, they always depreciate and always will. I buy what I can comfortably afford and enjoy. I usually trade in the 3 - 4 year range and I feel I'll be OK on equity with this car at that point.
Enjoy your car!!
Yes, seems like you got a good deal. Before I decided against the RX-8 due to gas consumption and carbon buildup in the engine, I was looking at a 2005 Charcoal Grey RX-8 with 20,000 miles for $19,999. Right next to it was a red RX-8 with only 3700 miles on it. It was just traded in on a Vette, wasn't cleaned, and didn't even have a price yet. They were going to sell it to me for $20,999. I was so close to buying this car, but glad that I didn't since I got laid off from work right afterwards. Good luck and hope you enjoy it.
Thanks for the feedback guys. It's always good to get additional feedback, especially if it re-affirms my original thoughts!
I've had the car for 10 days and I really love it. Hoping to take an autumn road trip to New England with my wife and the RX. That should definitely bring out the best in this car!
surfboy2001 Posts: 6From what I've read in this forum it sounds like it's possible to get an 06 for around invoice.. How are the 07's pricing at??
And can someone recommend a dealer in the socal area? What do people think of Galpin Mazda in Van Nuys??
raines887 Posts: 1Anyone have any suggestions on where to buy a new 06 or 07 RX-8. I live in fairfield ca, right in between San Fran and Sac so either location would be ok to buy from.
ukjim Posts: 63I had my car serviced at Long Beach Mazda on Cherry Ave and they seemed pretty knowledgeable and customer orientated but I bought on the East Coast last year so cant speak to their sales practices.
stylinlp Posts: 1Now that its the middle of October I see there is many 2006 RX-8's on the car lots here in Phoenix AZ not being sold. The dealers look very desperate. My impression is that they will take any offer.
Any advice on how much a deal to expect at this time? Which dates would be the best to buy in the next 3 months. I read the buying new car article on Edmonds on how to get quotes thru the fleet sales dept at the dealers competing with each other. I definatly will be using that tactic along with getting my own financing pre approved from a lendor. Any idea's on the stock Sports RX-8 and the full loaded model? Wife demands an AT>
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
over-rule the wife on an auto!!
No wonder there are incentives on the 07 models already. Things are really bad.
This is Oct 06 Oct 05 % change 06 YTD 05 YTD % change
640 cars sold for the whole month and just 8,180 for the year - down nearly 50% for the month and 47% for the year. Ouch, big time.
Still doing better than the S2000
I guess Mazda thinks of the 8 as their "halo" car, or they may just quit making it. Rumor has it this is the last year for the S2000 convertible - just not enough sales to keep making it.
Edmunds reports a $750 dealer incentive on new 07 RX-8s. On a left over 06 there is $2,500 in rebates and probably some dealer money, so I would expect those to be $3k or more under invoice at least.
You can go to carsdirect.com and put in your ZIP code and spec out a car and see what prices come up. Given the $750 incentive I would expect you should be paying around invoice or a little less for any new 07 RX-8.
Get the manual transmission - otherwise just get something else.
Be warned though, the 8 sucks at the pump. I get around 15mpg around town and on a long interstate trip could only get just over 20mpg. Premium gas, of course.
Resale value looks to be pretty bad too. You would figure if Mazda and the dealers can't sell them new - so they have deep discounts, rebates, and incentives. So to sell a used 8 you really have to go low. Edmunds says my 05 6mt GT w/NAV w/7400 miles is worth (trade, private party, retail):
$21,587 $23,407 $25,162
KBB shows:
$20,900 $23,210 $25,635
Pretty sad for a car with a $34k MSRP.
If it was me, I would see if the dealer had any speed6 cars on the lot. The left overs have $3,500 in dealer money on them and you should be able to pick one up really, really cheap.
Get what you want and what makes you happy, but go into the 8 with open eyes as to the recalls, resale, mile economy, and thirst for oil. Then you can enjoy your new car because you considered all this up front.
Hello ppl, this is my first post as I am a new RX8 owner as of last night!!! Just bought an 06 Shinka Edition for 6k below MSRP. The financing through Mazda is horrible (high interest) but you do get $1k for the trouble. Will have to get a refinance loan to get me the "good interest rate" as the Mazda loan can be paid off at anytime & I still keep the 1 grand. I think/hope I did well. The car got plenty of looks from my coworkers!
Congrats! You will love this car!
cristianfuente Posts: 3I previously own a scion tc 2.0 series 06 bought brand new 0 miles now it has 6k is it worth trading it with a Mazda rx-8 with 37k miles but is in mint condition with Grand Touring Package from 04?
Also does this car last would it get hard losing the 50,000mi. warranty how long would it take before this car starts to wear out?
Anyone who knows please help id appreciate thanks!
dave00691 Posts: 4I am looking at trading in my 2006 Mazda 3SGT and want to get a 06 RX-8 shinka with a sticker price of $33280 the price i was quoted is $27,287 which includes rebates but not ttl. is this a good deal
I was able to get an 06 Shinka for 26K even back in October 06 (Springfield MO). You might be able to get a few dollars off. It is a nice vehicle for sure. Just be careful of the Mazda financing, it's rate sucks, had to cash out some investments to pay it off, but Mazda's financing gets you 1k off. (at least it did in October).
acuratl2 Posts: 10I got a few quotes on the 06 RX8 MT with the GT package from dealers in Nor Cal. The dealers are asking $8,000 under MSRP. Can't get myself to buy one though given the issues I've read with these 8s, oil being the major factor. I've decided to wait another month, hopefully these will be going for $10k under MSRP by then. Fingers crossed.