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Chicago Examiner Vol. 11 no. 108
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Chicago examiner saturday Chicago april 26 1913 pricf on 17 cfnt nuhd liv carrier r rvi^c vjin e-i i . 30 centj qtr mon . h vol xl no 108 a m saturday 0 . s 0 blair replies directly to 4 of 19 charges in rail dispute beifeld declares published re port of Chicago railways head unsatisfactory on the 15 others and two of the four too vague and evasive of the issue certificate holders are to meet next monday traction man's answers account for more than 1,000,000 as written off to allow for the excess over the city's valua tion of properties of the lines i he report of henry a blair chair ma a of the board of directors of the chi cago railways company was completed and published yesterday afternoon w w gurley chief counsel for the traction company previously had told the members of the committee of five head e'l by joseph beifeld of the hotel sher man that the report would answer the nineteen questions propounded by the certificate holders j'lie questions charged extravagance and mismanagement and were openly admitted to be the beginning of a cam pafgn to oust chairman blair president john . i roach and other high officers of u.i company the report of cliaii'man blair according t'i mr beifeld failed to answer the ques 1 l.f.f mr beifeld after a enreful analy j .- i.l night found that but four of i t uiuelc.ii question wore answered i .,_■! hi liiese loii two he viewed as vague i i.i i:.ji<k'ie and ambiguous 1 ouiuilttee of live representing the ! i •. ii.-ca e crliii<-ate holders win be held this nsontiiy and the report will be ! exsumui d in d.la'l a mooting ot the ■uiiiiu^tce and i'r.c representatives of the i_iitinii company then probably will ba asked for monday when the additional information desired by the Chicago rail ways protective association will be asked of chief counsel gurley question and answer the first of the questions of the cer tificate holders was the ordinance allows the railways company a brokerage of 15 per cent on all first costs of rehabilitation how much did this 15 per cent umount to up to january 31 1913 and what disposition has been made of it on page 8 of the blair report the fol lowing statement an explanation 1 is , found as relating to the profits of the company the 15 per cent discount allowed 5,496,734.58 has been dis posed of as follows credited to interest and discount 93,676,781.94 the balance used to write off the excess value or the property carried on the books over the city valuation question two of the original list of nineteen promulgated by the certificate holders was in your annual report as published in the daily papers an item appears dividend on participation certificates series 1 an expense of 243,000 and dividend of participation certificates series 1 209,000 these amounts should have been 184,800 each kind ly explain the difference amounting to 5s,200 in the first item and 25,000 in the second item a total of 83,200 in the blair report the statement ap pears the depositories therefore upon the receipt of the dividends from the company deducted 1 their own-j compensatiqn 2 the fees of the registrars and transfer agents 3 | the fee of the Chicago title & trust j co npany as trustee of the stock and the remainder was then made the subject of the participation certifi cate holders according to the agree ment to question three in the blair report there is no answer in it the certificate holders ask why the city railways com pany is operated more economically than the Chicago railways company final question unanswered yueslion fourteen why does the com pany receive only 100,000 a year for its advertising concessiona when the city railways company receives more and lias cue-third less cars also was conspic uously without an answer the charge was m»de that harry m higicbotham fcou-in-iaw of chairman blair lnnded in a 12,500 position through manipulation of the tdvertlslng couc__*len the final question asking for detailed ! txplanatiou regarding the disposal of the casb balance of 0,9$4,0si is anweifed in j part various banks are named as de positories but th largest annus ., desig j nattd m.rely as cash general fund j 8.82s,615.4s is listed without any de 1 posttery | five women autoists arrested after play andreas dippel above who resigns as manager of the ; Chicago grand opera company ; and cleof onte campanim the ' i general musical director who i may be his successor theater-goers taken to station for leaving machines in street five women were taken to the central 1'olice station last evening after they had left the Chicago opera house charged wifh violating the city ordinance against leaving an automobile in a pub lic street for more than an hour without its being guarded the women arrested were : mrs w k cochrane 5407 east end avenue • mrs w e witherbee 835 drexel scjuare mrs c a ramsey 4610 ellis avenue miss margaretta deming 4353 green wood avenue miss florence carlson 1403 fratt ave nue they were released on their own re cognizance to appear in court to-day "*■dr john leeming 3041 indiana ave nue was arrested in the loop district for violating the same ordinance and after signing his own bond was released sweethearts leap to death from tower jump from antwerp cathedral when parents oppose match special cable to the examiner antwerp april 2o a boy of eight een and his nineteen-year-old sweetheart climbed arm-in-arm to the clock tower of the notre dame cathedral here to day and after a farewell embrace leaped from the bal»ony several women fainted the police declare that the sweethearts had planned the suicide when their pa rents tried to break up their love af fair dippel called home by opera board.resigns | manager summoned from cin ! cinnati quits verbally at directors luncheon campanini may get place i action forecast by friction during season but proves unex pectedly sudden at a luncheon given by the members of tt.c executive committee of the chi cago grand opera company yesterday the verbal resignation of andreas dip-1 pel as general manager was served with the punch and the final toast was a j stirrup cup to the departing guest mr dippers determination to resign i was reached duriug the progress of the | luncheou and he acted promptly so j promptly in fact as completely to up set his fellow guests at the table bnt i it was a culmination not entirely beyond the plans or wishes of the directors of the grand opera company and there i was no concerted action in the nature of a request to have mr dlppel recon \ sider his action in fact the committee acted almost as promptly as had mr . dippel in accepting the resignation and j | in a moment the question that has long stirred the music loving public of chl i cago was settled dippel to continue until may 3 mr dippel is to sever all relations j i with the Chicago grand opera company j i at the close of the present season on | ! may 3 he will remain with the com j par.y which is on tonr until that date | and will then return to Chicago and i wind up his affairs as speedily as possl we the plans of the grand opera com j pany go jio further at present on account of the unexpected turn of affairs at yes j terday's luncheon and the question of j a successor to mr dippel so it was said j has not even been considered last night mr dippel said he had plans ' of his own for the future that had been ; under consideration for some time but he like the directors was a bit flustered after the luncheon and was not prepared to make any announcement it is possi ble however that ho will now be free j to take up an active role in the move ment for grand opera in english to be ! given in all the large cities of the coun j try and may become the head and front i of the projected organization resignation not a surprise mr dippel's resignation cannot be said to have come as a surprise in fact it would have been surprising especially to some of the directors of the opera com pany who are familiar with the inner i most secrets of the organization if he had remained as general manager for an other season there has been friction this year not i due entirely to the temperaments of j the high-salaried singers some of the j directors felt that they should have - more vole in ihe conduct of the com \ pany and che selection of tile season's repertoire than they could possibly exert ■under the terms of mr dippel's con tract it was almost certain that mr ! dippel after bringing the opera to an ; artistic and financial triumph under his working agreement would not consent ! to any changes limiting his authority : the question had to be met at some > time but it was not expected that the 1 issue would be taken up and brought i to a conclusion yesterday once the matter was broached however there was a sharp skirmish and it was all ' 100,800 paid for the market cart gainsborough work total of 204,115 realized in one day on the phillips collec tion in london special cable to the examiner london april 23 after keenest com petition mid amid fervid applause gains borough's famous paintijg the market cart was sold for 100,800 at christie's to-day sir lionel phillips collection of pictures and drawings was being dis persed three exquisite portraits by nattier brought high prices too le point du ■jour fetched 16,275 le silence 24 ] | 150 and a portrait of lord brooke 16 ; soo the day's sales realized 204,115 the : total sum brought in at the first two days j sale of sir lionel phillips collection of furniture porcelain and tapestry is 103 j 060 a grand total of 307,100 so far the market cart depicts ft large j wagon drawn by three horses on a road ■in the foreground seated in the wagon ! are three women and two children while '. a man leaning over the side assists a ; girl to climb up in front are two sheep ; and a dog and in a valley in the distance ! are other sheep the picture is 47 inches j by 08 inches agnew was the purchaser ; milwaukee cupids called improper man held for displaying september morn attacks nude figures milwaukee wis april 25 the Chicago row over the display of septem ber morn is likely to be duplicated but on a larger scale here for oscar greenwald executive head of a depart ! ment store concern was arraigned in j court with the manager of his art depart ; ment to-day on a charge of violation of i the billboard ordinance the defendants secured a continuance i he showed that on the tower of the city ' hall cut into the stone of the four cor ! ners are four cupids whose lack of clothing and display of the human form makes september morn look like a fur-robed eskimo the defendants in the j billboard caso threaten to have commls j sioner of public works fred g simmons nrrested on the same charge if the case against themselves is prosecuted u s holds warships for japanese crisis offer of vessels fo yale for sum mer cruise is withdrawn new haa'ex conn april 2j that j tue united states government fears it may have use for its warships during the summer in connection with the jap anese question was bisclosed to-night i when a telegram was received at yale j from josephus daniels secretary of the j xavy withdrawing the offer of the use ! of the ships by college students on a j cruise to study naval engineering • j it is felt at vale that the sudden can collation of the offer incuns the ships will ciuie l>e kept in readiness for an emergency incident to t'.ie pacific coast trouble or that they be dispatched to ih soast i^iai('<!iaiejy Taft digs hole and plants an oak tree former president assists in new haven founding anniversary new haven coun april 23.—for mer president Taft to-day assisted in the celebration of the two hundred and seventy-fifth anniversary of the found ing of xew haven he planted an oak near the spot where the little colony landed in 1638 and eer john davenport their pastor stood under the historic oak and pleached the first sermon on ameri can soil professor Taft dug a deep and wide hole and then set the tree in place while the click of many cameras attested to the perpetuation of the picture wilson is ordered to take yacht cruise physicians see need of recreation to preserve health washington april 25 president wilson will sail tomorrow on the united states yacht sylph for a short recreation trip in accordance with the orders of his physicians miss eleanor wilson and dr cary grayson will accompany him fearing the hard work that the pres ident has been doing of late would under mine his health the white house phy sicians have prescribed daily recreation and diversion two are saved from mine pittsburgh april 2l saturday two of the miners imprisoned in the cincinnati mine near flnleyville by the gas explosion there three days ago were rescued early this morning the men were more dead than alive when they were carried to the surface the undine of these men has given added impetus to the work of rescue and large parties are now searching in the gangways in tno hope of finding iihve others of the men who were caught in the mine at the time of the explosion 35,000 bad checks given by tyler 10 pay broker estimate of friends losses is mounting cash raised by bond salesman three days before suicide and given to e w harden of new york brother-in-law of van derlip after stormy interview account with shearson hammill j &. co denied names of two concerns with which tyler dealt suppressed teacher is said to have lost 3,000 j details of the financial operations which \ resulted in the suicide last week of theo dore tyler bond salesman for bussell brewster & co came to light yes terday the estimate of the losses sus | tained by his friends who intrusted him with funds for investment hias grown j fiom 200,000 to a much larger sum the investigation which is being made j . ; iu behalf of the dead broker's creditors has revealed this circumstance a week or ten days before tyler com mitted suicide a draft for a sum in ex cess of 5,000 from new york was pre sented to him for payment he refused | to honor it and it was returned three days before tyler ended his life e w harden of the stock and bond brokerage concern of j b colgate & co of new york arrived in Chicago he l.ail a private and heated conference with tyler and was subsequently given a pack ago containing 85,000 all in 1.005 bills llaiden immediately left for new york having accomplished his errand thirty six hours later tyler killed himself his poreon:;l checks calling for sums of 1,000 and 2,000 each and totaling the amount given harden were returned by various banks marked no funds brothcr-in-law of vanderlip j v harden is a brother-in-law of frank a vanderlip president of the na tional city bank of new york efforts are now being made to learn the extent of tyler's transactions with colgate x co and the circum stances surrounding the 35,000 payment to harden it is definitely known that tyler nail secret accounts with two other brokerage concerns through which it is believed he lost large sums of money informa tion as to the identity of the firms is suppressed by counsel for the creditors a report that tyler had an account with shcarson ilauimill £ co of ne-.v york and Chicago with local offices at t west adams street was denied yesterday by members of the firm harry e sturtevant resident partner and messrs shearson and hainmill all ramona borden is found in hotel with mrs white registered as her maid detectives surround boston hotel when they find millionaire's daughter hamona borden the seventeen-year-old daughter of gail borden the millionaire milk dealer who was found in boston after strangely dis appearing from a sanitarium at the top below are the misses gladys at the left and violette sheldon nieces of mrs w j white wife of the chewing gum manufacturer shown in the center at the bottom miss borden v;as with mrs white when the detectives discovered her new i'okk april 25 — in response to j a message stating that his daughter ranioua had been located gail bordeu son of the millionaire founder of the ! korden condensed milk company ac cdmpanled by his attorney greuville clark started to-night for boston i have received a wire from private i detectives in isoston to the effect that ] my daughter is at the hotel vendoine in tbat city said mr burden just bo 1 fore boarding the midnight train 1 i understand slie is with mrs wilhain j white and mis marion a liacke the j telegram stated that the hotel is sr.r i roundel mr borden excited mr borden was greatly excited at the j prospect of sealng his seventeen-year • old runaway daughter again when the , message came from boston he was on ■t!n point f retiring to obtain ail hour j or two of rest before departing for balti i morel where his aged mother mrs gail i borden sr is seriously ill the disappearance of her favorite granddaughter and the mcertulnty of her i mental and physical oii.lition reacted upon her an hour before ho telegram came from j boston mr borden predicted the im minent discovery of his daughter's ' whereabouts the father seemed confi dent though nothing had been seen of the giil by any one who knew her sinoe ! she was spirited away i rom the sani tarium at fouipton x j inte wednes day afternoon i mr isorden's optir.iinui followed reports | by detectives who bad ecu led on a : chase across three states mr borden looked worn and broken j he explained that he had received word i of rhe prostration of als sister anil his \ aged mother the movements r lu runaway girl and her older companions as traced by ■bordeu's detectives include an evening spent in new haven at the Taft hotel i and l decoy departure for boston on . thursday morning i register with maid a dispatch to-night from new haven | stated that mrs white and mrs backe with a maid who answered in a general ; way with the description of miss bor den passed wedn-j.-sj.iy ■ight at the hotel i toft mr liordsn learned of the par '. ty'a trip to saw saven through the i nassau i'ru.st company of new york i city upon which mrs white drew a j check for the payment of her hotel ml this was just before the party left thursday morning the trust company ; called np mr rorden who immediately i got into eonunnnleation with the hole j after being furnished with descriptions ! the father stated that there oould be no doubt of the identity of the three mr borden was notified by the hotel ; management that the party took a taxi j cab to the union station in time to catch the 11:40 train thursday morning there a porter took charge of the baggage of i the party ami placed them aboard their | train mr bordeu's detectives immediately letter starts inquiry into sudden death of mrs jone friends in itaiy ask polic^^m open investigation intfl of fernando jones dm in-law found poison drug in a north sidev came here to demand estate from brothem v i overdosing of morphine doubted j as woman showed no signs of illness abroad and nurse who attended her in Chicago is sought to furnish a clew through the receipt of au anonymous letter yesterday from capri italy un der date of april 5 chief of police mc i weeny has caused the inquiry into tb death of mrs marie paulina greene jones to be reopened mrs jones daugh ter of the late horatio nathan greene and daughter-in-law of the late fernando jones was found dead in her room in the tudor hotel at 6£i cass street march 18 a hypodermic needle and a ■small vial were found at her side a coroner's jury the next day returned u i verdict of accidental death from an over dose of morphine and the case was of ficially forgotten mrs jones came to Chicago from hii | villa in capri italy to compel her broth : er russell greene to give her an equal division of their father's estate be body was found au riout before her hiuth i er had decided to accede to her dentkml when the will f ■the estate was piu bated it disclosed assets of s2ogsnfr tells of trouble the letter from capsi which has causci a renewed investigation follows mrs greene jones was found dead in Chicago about two weeks ago she is well known here and had ex pected to return here in about six weeks she was in america for th purpose of procuring her share in her - father's estate he died a year ago in this she had trouble with her brother with whom she had long re ported she was on bad terms she had told and written many friends here that she would exercise scrupulous care to execute a will excluding thi brother from any share in her prop erty or estate letters to this effect exist in possession of mrs marlon m neville villa valentino capri italy and of baron d'lsola home italy mrs greene jones never had a nurs or attendant here she was found dead under circumstances tending t show suicide or accidental overdosing of morphine the nurse ha disap peared no will of mrs jones can be found here or in america as her lawyer in your country cabled to-day mr louis tredway williams inn williamstown mass knew mrg jones her habits and talk she wa a guest of his at idle wild williams town mass in the summer of jhil the opinidn of all in toudfi with mrs jones is that her death need fuller explanations mrs jones in tended to return here for the balanca , of her life the writer knows noth ing of this save from hearsay except that be has read some letters of mrs jones to mrs neville on the subject of mrs j.'s will and of mrs j.'s property here 1 have no interest whatsoever in the matter beyond be lieving that justice should be dons though the heavens fall in Chicago and elsewhere capri italy april r 1813 on this case above described 1 re gret to say that i hear italians x press unfavorable opinion about the v s ami its administration of jns tic-e • hotel attaches questioned detectives from the Chicago avenue station were assigned on the case lam night and lieutenant timothy culllnati will direct the investigation attaches o the tudor hotel were questioned s night lint no further information than j that which developed at the coroner's in m quest was secured ■particular efforts will be made to-da.h to learn the whereabouts of a mis wynne said to have been the nurse who attended mrs jones a few hours before her death agents from the coroner's of fice sought her unsuccessfully at the time of the iuquest and she has not been seen since she is beljjved to be the last per son who saw mrs jones alive on the night before the body was found misa wynne descended to the hotel lobby from mrs jones apartments and announced she had been discharged j i was sent out for morphine gh^^^j quoted as bavin said i so^ghjj continued on 4th page sth column continued rsn 2d page 6th column continued on 2d page 2d column r suxdaf examiner real estate want ads sectiox o ttvery jv ant supplied g 1 j jsjjjjjjjjjjsjjjjjjjjjjjjj a in to-morrow s sunday examiner real estate j and want ads section it is brimful of news that comes right home to you it tells briefly and plainly how you can obtain a a home of your own an a farm or country estate j . . apartment or flat a loan on mortgage < a buyer for your real estate a situation at good pay g a tenant for your house help of a kind pr p cfp r er?y " a business opportunity h a furnished room or an opening for a good heal boarding place estate investment a and many desirable things besides a thai portion of your day will be pleasantly and % profitably spent which you devote to the a a < > ■real estate and want ads section l-^~spkpar examiner real estate want ads section the examiner's sworn statement to the united states government averajro number of copies of each issue of this publication old or distributed through the mails or otherwise to paid sub scrihersn_uriug the month of march preceding the date of ___,» statement april 0 1913 daily examiner 237,072 c"_j pv.w.m al ___»__ Chicago and vicinity — gen f p^v-r«t — | erally fair but with some cloudi j5y_r-r tca ness saturday and sunday moder j_v_t\^b iec ately cool light variable winds 9^/___w bange of temperatures x n lowest 44 x ft a average . 5 s
Object Description
|Chicago Examiner Vol. 11 no. 108
|Chicago Examiner Vol. 11 no. 108
|No. 108
|Hearst Corporation
|Original format
|Newspapers, Broadsheets
|City newspaper
|sn 85038326
|Chicago Examiner Vol. 11 no. 108
|Chicago Examiner Vol. 11 no. 108
|No. 108
|File name
|Hearst Corporation
|Original format
|Newspapers, Broadsheets
|City newspaper
|sn 85038326
|Full text
Chicago examiner saturday Chicago april 26 1913 pricf on 17 cfnt nuhd liv carrier r rvi^c vjin e-i i . 30 centj qtr mon . h vol xl no 108 a m saturday 0 . s 0 blair replies directly to 4 of 19 charges in rail dispute beifeld declares published re port of Chicago railways head unsatisfactory on the 15 others and two of the four too vague and evasive of the issue certificate holders are to meet next monday traction man's answers account for more than 1,000,000 as written off to allow for the excess over the city's valua tion of properties of the lines i he report of henry a blair chair ma a of the board of directors of the chi cago railways company was completed and published yesterday afternoon w w gurley chief counsel for the traction company previously had told the members of the committee of five head e'l by joseph beifeld of the hotel sher man that the report would answer the nineteen questions propounded by the certificate holders j'lie questions charged extravagance and mismanagement and were openly admitted to be the beginning of a cam pafgn to oust chairman blair president john . i roach and other high officers of u.i company the report of cliaii'man blair according t'i mr beifeld failed to answer the ques 1 l.f.f mr beifeld after a enreful analy j .- i.l night found that but four of i t uiuelc.ii question wore answered i .,_â– ! hi liiese loii two he viewed as vague i i.i i:.ji
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Living in McCain's home state, there won't be much point in me voting in any election where he is present (aside from ballot initiatives and other things on the ticket). I'm generally a fan of gridlock anyway.
I would still be motivated to vote for Obama if he were an option simply because he would be the first candidate on any presidential ballot in my short voting career for whom I was genuinely a supporter. If Huckabee pulls a rabit out of his bible and wins the GOP nomination, I'll vote for anyone that keeps him out of office.
Burritos are an inferior creation of Californians and pale in comparison to the simple perfection of a good carne asada or pastor taco.
Iraq isn't the only conceivable foreign policy decision these people could be making in the next 8 years. I wouldn't trust Clinton to tie my shoes much less react in a way I see as favorable down the line. I would certainly see her doing anything that is favorable for her political career rather than doing the thing that's best for the country. McCain wouldn't be as good as Obama but is better than Clinton.
Romney's out.
We have more than a hundred votes, so I'm not re-setting.
Oh please spare me your derision, it's so predictable as to be free of any real sting.
I'm not afraid of the idea of a UHC policy in a general sense. I'm afraid of what Obama's or Hillary's UHC policies will do to our alread tottering (maybe you hadn't noticed) economy.
Show me the evidence which suggests that the 102-124 Billion USD per year that his plan is supposed to cost is going to come some place other than straight out of my income tax, and that the overall quality of healthcare (please note I didn't say "quality of the healthcare system", which is a piece of crap) won't decline, and I'll stop being afraid of UHC.
^^That's not bluster, that's the truth. I'd love to change my opinion, but for those two points. I seem to hear WILDLY different stories about how successful it's been elsewhere depending on who I talk to, and no one seems to be talking about how we'll pay for it. If we make such a dramatic shift in one of the most fundamental components of our nations future and decide we've fucked it up, how hard is it going to be to get people to make the shift again? Why can't I find compelling, seemingly objective information on those two points? And if it's out there, but I haven't seen it, kindly refrain from telling me what a fucking idiot I am for not having stumbled across it while you point me to it.
For that matter, I'd love to know what you think is so terribly wrong with wanting a president who will recreate some sense of unity in the country as opposed to deepening our disagreements, which is what the last 8 years have done.
Edit: Additional comments, clarity.
I don't see how that follows. There have already been significant steps towards reconciliation of relationships that were fractured over the Iraq war, even though Bush is still in office and the policy regarding Iraq hasn't changed at all. See: Sarkozy and France, Merkel and Germany.
I don't think so. That the leaders of the governments you mentioned are somewhat in a better or more communicative mode with Bush means very little. Have you been to Europe within the last year? I have. Popular disdain for the US and it's idiotic policies hasn't diminished at all, and why would it? We are still there imposing our will on what was once a sovereign nation, a secular society, and a rich country. We destroyed all that, and now because the number of casualties is lower we'd like to see instant (or even gradual) beneplacit from the people of countries that were against this war from the beginning. Forget the governments, they are as corrupt and stupid (although orders of magnitude more intelligent) than what we have to suffer here, it's the people, it the nations that continue to feel, and IMO deservedly so, that we are a bunch of stupid yahoos with a trigger-happy mentality. Just a bunch of classless cowboys, an anachronism of the worst kind.
I have and many of them have far enough to go to get over their own dislike, dare I say racism, of various races/culture groups, to even begin to care about the US.
(In other words, they are too busy hating other cultures/races/countries that have a greater impact on their lives to care that much about the US)
So I guess Hitler didn't go far enough to make people see the horror of hating other cultures, races, or countries. You would think that with all the people he killed in the name of "the supreme race", people would start to realize how stupid that kind of thinking is...
Iraq is the foreign policy decision that'll set the scene for all the rest.
No, I haven't noticed. Last I checked, you still had the biggest economy in the world, and it's still growing.
Who cares? Stop buying insurance. And $100bn/year? That's easy to cover--it's paid for by bringing the fucking troops home from Iraq.
US healthcare is already nothing special. Note that I said "healthcare", not "healthcare system". US healthcare is not good even for the people who can afford it. It might be OK, but it's certainly not at the top of the chart.
It's bluster, that's all it is.
Who cares? It'll be such a massive boost to the economy anyway, it doesn't matter who pays for it. It'll boost worker mobility, it'll push US labour costs closer to RoW labour costs, it'll reduce time lost to illness, it'll push healthcare costs down... the benefits are immense.
What benefits do you see from a "sense of unity", and what makes you think that democrats will unite behind McCain when the guy is opposed to, oh, just about everything they stand for (except for torture, I'll give him that)?
The votes so far are rather remarkable.
In an Obama/McCain matchup, 111-to-11 (7 abstain/other). In a Clinton/McCain matchup, it's 62-to-36 (31 abstain/other).
Given the left-leaning tendencies of this board, I find it incredibly remarkable that fully 2/3 of McCain voters, and almost all of the abstain/other voters, will jump ship to Obama if he's the candidate.
If nothing else illustrates the sheer short-sighted foolishness and idiocy of a Democrat voting for Hillary Clinton, I don't know what does.
You do realize that under Clintons "UHC" plan that he won't be able to stop buying insurance. In fact he would be fined for not buying insurance. Good thing we have these mandates to guarantee corporate profits for insurance companies on the table from her.
Being pro-Bush and pro-Iraq is still a massive liability for any world leader at the moment (it was certainly a factor in Australia last year, for example). Merkel and Sarkozy both made points in their campaigns that Iraq was bad and that they weren't going to get involved. They distanced themselves from the entire debacle. Close proximity to the US (of the kind seen pre-9/11, even) is just too dangerous for many world leaders.
unfortunately the preferences of the soapbox haven't been that great at predicting what the general us electorate will do, or even what democrats in general will do.
it's obvious that this board is a haven for the intellectual elite.
Sure he can. He can use the Medicare-like public healthcare instead. That's one of the key points of her plan. It isn't funded like insurance, it isn't run like insurance.
I guess you are still digging up the links which support these assertions?
You can't take me seriously because I dare to question the benefits of the proposed UHC plans, and yet you expect me to, with a straight face, explain to you why unity is more beneficial than infighting to society at large? LOL.
I can't find the part where I refer to McCain as a uniter.
Read her bloody plan! Or just engage you brain. Do you really need a link to a fucking web page to explain to you how people having a decent fall-back position which won't leave them without adequate healthcare means they're less tied to their employer (and specifically, their employer's health insurance), hence boosting worker mobility?
Er, yes, actually.
Since you're going to reject Hillary because she's divisive and instead vote republican then surely McCain (who's gonna get the nomination) must be less divisive? Or else you'd reject him too for the same reason? You say you'd vote for any republican over Hillary, so they must all be less divisive than her. Unless you're just being a hypocrite.
^^ Well, since nearly my entire post spawned this side discussion between you and I was in answer to why I like Obama better than Hillary, and during which I mentioned that although I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary, I also don't think that any of the Republicans are uniters like Obama is (hence my preference for him over Hillary), and since you have managed to find objection to nearly every other comment I made, I thought you might have been able to determine that my entire point was Hillary=divisive, Obama=Uniter, Repubs not uniters, but better than Hillary.
I'm really quite surprised that you couldn't work that out.
To a lesser extent (in importance), gender.
Obama cleans everbody's clock with the youth vote.
Men like Obama, too.
One of Clinton's biggest weaknesses is white men. Obama is doing just fine with white men. (Who woulda thunk it?)
So, here we have a fairly young, overwhelmingly male demographic. That's Obama territory.
But that wasn't the question.
In what sense are they better than Hillary but not better than Obama, when Hillary and Obama are identical, save for one being a white woman and the other being a black man? Why are the democrat policies OK when from Obama, but inferior to the republican policies when from Clinton? What gives?
Clinton nomination = me writing in Chewbacca again.
Where in Europe have you been? I've been to the UK, France, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Switzerland, and Spain. I didn't see what you mention, and I stay at friend's homes in Europe since I practically grew up there. I saw tension (especially in France), but other than that, business as usual.
You don't know the meaning of disdain then. They don't care too much about our problems, but when they are asked about the US and its policies, they show disdain. You don't need to get involved all that much to feel contempt.
You've already had multiple explanations regarding why Clinton and Obama are considered different, you merely choose to ignore them.
Speaking just about McCain...
McCain, although willing to pander, doesn't seem owned by K Street. (See McCain-Fiengold.
Obama has eschewed federal PAC and federal lobbyist money.
Clinton's explanation for taking lobbyist money: "Lobbyists are people, too."
McCain and Obama might be bought and paid for, but if they are, they're trying to hide it.
Clinton isn't even trying. Just like her husband. They'll give lip-service to reform, sure, but make no mistake: she's from the money wing of the Democratic Party.
They aren't different in any substantive sense. There are, however, numerous policy differences between Clinton/Obama and the republican candidates. If you prefer Obama's policies (such that you'd vote for him over any republican), Clinton's are closer to Obama's than any republican candidate (and vice versa, if you prefer Clinton's policies).
If I were running, I'd take lobbyist money too. Why wouldn't you? It's free money. I mean, that's the one good thing about the legalized corruption that is "lobbying". If you're taking money from some shady mob boss, and you don't do what he wants you to do, you'll get your leg broken (or worse). OTOH, if you don't do what lobbyists want you to do, they can go fuck themselves.
Correction: None that you've chosen to accept.
You assume that 'policy differences' are the only factor, and you also assume that everyone overwhelmingly prefers one sides policy decisions over the others. Faulty assumptions, on all counts.
Of course, it's not like you don't really know that.
To mirror somewhat what eXceLon said, you are making the idiotic assumption that a political candidate is nothing more than a list of policy stances.
The decision to/to not vote for a candidate, particularly a presidential candidate, is a lot more than that. It's a combination of multiple factors, of which policy is only one part of a much larger whole. I realize you're trying to prove a point by oversimplifying, but, it's failing...miserably.
You're also completely ignoring John McCain's history. Prior to about 4-5 years ago, he was the poster boy for a moderate-to-liberal Republican, and his voting record backs that up. A lot of people (including myself) place a lot more credence in that than his recent campaigning. Personally, I find his kowtowing to the conservative base over the last few years disgraceful, particularly his about-face on torture issues, but there you have it.
True, but, it mirrors national polling to a considerable extent, and the divide between McCain and Clinton will only grow wider once he secures the nomination and begins courting moderate Democrats and Independents.
It's not free.
They can do a well-funded smear campaign against you while funding an opponent.
IOW, they'll try to "take you out."
You're also overlooking the pervasiveness of the institutionalized bribery.
McCain has been ostracized by a section of his party because of McCain-Feingold. (Those in power don't give two hoots about 1st amendment issues. It's about control. duh.)
It's a VIP club.
What do you think happens to a straight cop in a corrupt precinct?
Is it the elephant in the room regarding the current debate?
Wow, this got long.
Ok, I'm about 28 years old. I cringed with the rest of you through Bill Clinton's eight year term in office. I enjoyed hating Hillary Clinton along with many people in my social circles (Libertarian to Libertarian Republican), although in retrospect, it does appear that most of the bile was aimed at her not for what she advocated, but because she dared to be anything more than an ornament as First Lady. I didn't really mind the Monica scandal so much as the war in Kosovo, which seemed at the time to be a very risky gamble (Russia had the potential to be extremely upset with us) for no apparent gain to us or the general good. I, like many people, thought that 'at least Bush (Jr) won't be as bad as Clinton was. Clearly, I was wrong.
So now it's election time again, and I find myself in the ironic position of thinking that Hillary Clinton is the best of the lot (which doesn't necessarily say much, you may infer). I like McCain a fair bit, although he's taken to making all kinds of promises to the religious right (that I doubt he'd actually keep) so as to avoid getting attacked by that particularly rabid demographic (I know how rabid from personal experience --see above). I think, however, that having a democrat in the presidency for the next term or so might be better --especially if the congress flips back to the republicans when the democrats prove unable to bring us quickly out of the ungodly mess that Bush Jr has us in.
That said: If Obama wins the democratic nomination, I'll vote for McCain. (Heck, I might even vote for Huckabee, if it came down to it --can't be worse than Bush, and at least he speaks English properly--, although there's little risk of it). I wouldn't vote for Romney (he's *really* evil/stupid) over Obama --I'd probably just stay home, or vote for whoever's running on the Libertarian platform.
And why? Because even though Obama sounds fantastic whenever he speaks, he never actually *says* anything. All his best speeches are constructions of generalized fluff. We all have dreams. We can all work together. We can make America Great. Wow, awesome, yeah. Sign me up. But how?
The first time I heard him put on the spot to provide details, all his erudition and poise vanished. (Incidentally, the same thing happens to Al Gore whenever he's talking about generalized mom and apple-pie stuff, instead of talking about global warming, which he really believes in. Go watch an Inconvenient Truth again)
So let's look at what Obama says he'll do if he's elected. He wants to fund early childhood education programs. Sounds great. How will he do it? He will: delay NASA[s] Constellation Program for five years, ... [govt's negotiating power, auction surplus property, stop erroneous payments, close loopholes, and spend money that would have gone to Iraq].
Ok, I can understand a politician's willingness to spend money that we don't really have because someone else is already spending it (the Iraq war $$), but wtf is up with cutting NASA? It's not like NASA even has that big portion of the US budget. Seems the only reason to single it out is that it's visible (and was made into a pet project of Bush Jr). This seems like petty and uninformed politics as usual. Where's that change that Sen. Obama is promising me? Work hard in school kids. Excel in math and science so that you can discover and invent new things, so long as I haven't decided to randomly cut your funding as a political stunt.
So what, you ask, if Constellation is delayed for five years? Can't they just do it later? The answer, dear readers, is a bit complicated.
The first problem is that if you cut a project's funding. Everyone who works on the project goes and gets a new job somewhere else. So that expert team of people you've spent so long to put together to work on that project just vanished. When you finally do get funding again, you'll have to spend time trying to reassemble a team. This will drive the net cost of the project by the time it is completed higher --and if the delay to reassemble the team is too large, you'll probably get your funding cut just before you can finish, because you're now overbudget and overdue.
It takes about a decade to produce a senior researcher more or less from scratch (counting 2 years of undergrad, ~6 of graduate school, and 3 years of postdoctoral work). After making that time investment, what do you think said researchers are going to do when they see the prospect of being jerked around for at least another five years before they could do what they've worked so hard to be in a position to do? They leave science and get jobs in technical/management consulting or finance. Many of my friends have done it, and at this point, I'm seriously considering it.
This isn't just about Obama and NASA. It's happened to many other projects many times before. Fusion is a good perennial example of this kind of process. Every time it gets the politically motivated axe, all the young researchers move on to other fields. Right now the field's demographics is almost entirely composed of older people (who got started in the 70s) and graduate students. Incidentally, fusion just got pounded again, this time by a democratic congress which passed a law saying that ITER was not only cut out of the budget, but that no extra federal funds could be shifted to support any of its projects. Take that Bush Jr! Too bad that MIT had to lay off its entire advanced magnet system team as collateral damage. Giving the project funding again next year won't bring that expertise back together.
I'm fed up.
So why Hillary? One thing the Clintons understood while they were in office was that you need to fund science for the long term. I may not agree with many of her positions. I know she's a canny and sometimes cynical political operator. But she also knows what side her (and the country's) bread is buttered on.
Yeah, I caught the cutting NASA funding bit too... WTF?
Crap like that reminds me why I hate the left almost as much as I hate the right
Of all the fat in the federal budget, why make NASA a target?
NASA gets roughly the USAF's annual shoe polish and desktop model B-52 budget...
Sucking up to the GOP?
I'm not ignoring it at all.
Spain, France, UK.
Well if that is all then quite frankly I'm not worried about it. If someone asked me about how I feel about how France is dealing with their immigration problems then I might have a negative opinion but I seriously doubt French people give a god damn how I feel.
No, it goes well beyond that. Inmigration is a domestic policy. The contempt towards the US is on a more general scale. As I wrote previously, they see our policies are ridiculously stupid in regards to pretty much everything. They see Americans either as evil motherfuckers or dumb ass yahoos. Since in order to be an evil motherfucker some acumen is required, and according to the last (almost) 8 years Americans have shown a complete ignorance and a pathetic submission to the brainwashing imposed by the government, they rule out that option, leaving only the dumb ass yahoo one. I can't say I disagree with that assessment. I, along with many other posters here, *fucking knew* from the very onset that the Iraq "thing" was a total invention, yet until recently (and I am sure some people still hold to that idea) Americans continued to believe that Saddam had WMDs, and that he had been involved in the 911 tragedy.
Perhaps you visited Europe on business and then of course, no-one is going to make comments on the idiocy prevalent in this country. Perhaps you don't have friends there that will tell you what they truly think about America because they wouldn't want to offend you?
I'm telling you this because I pass for a brit when in Europe, because I attended secondary education in London, and then stayed in Europe until I was 22. So when in America I have a slight accent, but in Europe everyone I meet thinks I'm from the UK, so they can criticise at will without fear of offending me as an American (which would never happen anyway since I would agree with most of the critiques).
This I simply did not see in my travels. Maybe you are staying with a bunch of assholes.
Whats funny is that stereotyping an entire country because of a few foreign policy decisions would generally be frowned up by many if it was an American doing it.
Or perhaps you are blindly living in denial. Or perhaps it is you who is staying with assholes, since I don't think anyone can find fault if the US's foreign policy is viewed with disdain. Perhaps you don't. Perhaps you are one of the Americans who think that going to Iraq was a Good Thing™. If that's the case, we have very little to talk about, other to agree to disgree.
There is a big jump between viewing us going into Iraq as a bad thing and:
I disagree with your premise that Hillary and Obama are ideologically identical.
For me, it comes down to who is going to do the most to curb corporate excess. Obama seemingly will (if he is anything like Edwards) then, based on past history, I think McCain would (see: McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform). Hillary... not so much. Bill, after all, got NAFTA passed.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Selkirk Range > Bugaboo Spire > Climber's Log
Bugaboo Spire Climber's Log
[ Sign the Climber's Log ]
|three times
|Climbed this peak three times. Twice via the NE ridge (2004 and 2006) and once via the Kain route (2005). Although the NE ridge is the better route, the Kain is definitely a classic alpine ridge. Plus the Kain step does get the heart going for a few seconds there!
|Posted Oct 12, 2007 4:58 pm
|NE Ridge 8-30-2007
|Climbed the NE ridge. Apparently we are a bit slow as it took us 21 hours hut to hut. But we also had to rap the NE ridge with one single rope as the slabs over to the Kain Route were covered in ice and snow. We had already had enough fun with snow in the chimneys on the NE ridge. Loved the finger crack pitches, the chimneys were a bit awkward, but one of the best climbs I have ever been on. It was crazy looking back up at the route from the Kain Hut and thinking that we had climbed that ridge. Truly awe-inspiring!
|Posted Sep 3, 2007 3:53 am
|NE Ridge
|sweet route.
|Posted Feb 14, 2007 6:28 am
|Kain Route
|Climbed Kain route with my freind Ad from Holland. Superb climbing in excellent weather. A guided team behind us.
|Posted Jan 28, 2007 3:39 pm
|Dow Williams
Date Climbed: Aug 25, 2006
|The NE Ridge with CClaude, Pvalchev on August 25, 2006. These Bugaboo Spires are classic climbs for good reason, much better rock than we are used to in the Rockies. We converted 12 pitches into 9 and divided up the lead in groups of three. Do your damndest to carry light packs. You will thank yourself many times, particularly on the summit traverse. Hell, if I did it again, I would carry tennis shoes and attach mini crampons to those for the glacier travel, including descending the col, which no doubt would suck, but be worth it. To much weight in our packs for such a long rock day.
|Posted Sep 21, 2006 8:18 pm
|NE Ridge is a classic
Date Climbed: Aug 28, 2006
|I underestimated this climb! But, it's truly a classic. I did not underestimate the descent. Everyone talked about how hard it was. I guess that prepared me - thought it was pretty easy. The view of the route from the base is jaw-dropping! Heck, all the views are.
|Posted Sep 6, 2006 3:49 am
|NE ridge
Date Climbed: Aug 25, 2006
|An enjoyable day with Dow and CClaude. The traverse and descent are not straightforward which must be why so many people get benighted on the mountain - it's a long way. The Snowpatch/Bugaboo col is ugly as of summer 2006!
|Posted Aug 29, 2006 5:36 pm
|In 1992 first trip
|My first rock climb outside Mexico. I loved the mountains.
|Posted May 22, 2006 3:51 am
|Route Climbed: NE ridge Date Climbed: Aug 98
|Got stormed off the bottom of the ridge. Need to go back there hopefully this summer.
|Posted Dec 19, 2005 5:37 am
|Derek Franzen
|Route Climbed: Northeast Ridge Date Climbed: August 1983
|With E Sandbo, P Jacobowski & B Brown. One of the best rock climbs I've ever done. Excellent granite and wonderful route in a fantastic setting. This is a must do climb!
|Posted Apr 26, 2005 10:50 am
|Chinese Rock
|Route Climbed: Kain Route/South Ridge Date Climbed: July 2002
|I climbed this outstanding route with Graham Johnson. It is humbling to imagine Conrad Kain climbing the gendarme pitch back in 1916 in cork-sole boots. We menaged to gett our rope stuck on the first rappel. There were lots of people on the route, which made the going very slow. All things considered, this is a great route of historic importance on very high quality granite.
|Posted Feb 24, 2005 2:32 am


text:
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David Beckham Kissing Daughter Harper Beckham | Photos
Harper Gets One-on-One Time With David and Victoria
David Beckham and his daughter, Harper, exchanged sweet kisses on a stroll in sunny London today. Later in the afternoon, Harper made an outfit change into a blue sundress for some quality time with her mom, Victoria Beckham. Harper has been getting a lot of attention from her parents lately. The father-daughter walk was her second outing in two days — yesterday, David carried Harper for a walk around London. She also spent time with both David and Victoria during a stay in Paris last weekend. Victoria, Harper, and her brothers, Brooklyn, Romeo, and Cruz, made the trek across the Channel to visit David in Paris as he prepared for a big Paris Saint-Germain match. While they were there, Victoria and the kids partook in cultural family fun with stops at Paris's famed Louvre as well as the Palais de Tokyo. Harper and the boys also visited David during one of his training sessions on the field during their Paris stay.
David is getting a ministay at home in London between hitting the field with PSG. David had a big victory against Nice on Sunday, and he will soon be headed back to Paris to prep for his upcoming match against Evian this Sunday.


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Verified Purchase
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text:
Top-rated building blocks belong in every play room :
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Awards: Over 30 toy industry awards, including Dr. Toys, 100 Best Products, Good Housekeeping Best Toy, Mr. Dad Seal of Approval, iParenting Media, and more.


text:
Yosemite Fire 2013 Map, Update: Rim Wildfire Now Inside National Park, Grows to 164 Sq Miles (Evacuations Latest - VIDEO, PHOTO)
The Rim Fire has grown to 164 sq miles (424 sq km) by Friday morning and has now burned into Yosemite National Park, authorities have reported. The huge California Yosemite wildfire has forced streams of tourists to free the area during what should the peak season at the park, and thousands of homes are also under threat.
More than 2,000 firefighters are currently joining together in efforts to tackle the enormous blaze, but the fire remains just 2 percent contained, according to reports.
California Governor Jerry Brown has declared a state of emergency, with the blaze being described as a "monster."
The Rim fire has burned across a vast area in quick speed, and has reached Yosemite's backcountry at Lake Eleanor, which is accessible by hiking trails, park spokeswoman Kari Cobb has said, according to The Associated Press.
Cobb has explained that the area currently affected by the fire is not actually one of the often visited parks of the park, but nevertheless she described it as "very beautiful."
She also confirmed that at present the Yosemite wildfire is about 20 miles away from the main tourist area at Yosemite National Park.
Fire crews have found it desperately difficult to keep any kind of control of the fire, and it has spread enormously on Thursday and Friday, destroying several homes and numerous other outbuildings, according to AP.
The Yosemite National Park still technically remains open, but the fire has forced the closure of a four mile area of State Route 120 – on the west side which is one of the three main entrances to the national park.
The blaze is in fact centered on Stanislaus National Forest, west of Yosemite. A spokeswoman for the U.S. Forest Service has said 4,500 homes, hotels, businesses and several campsites are under threat as of Friday, up from 2,500 on Thursday.
Lee Bentley of the U.S. Forest Service told CBS News: "We've got a monster on our hands. This fire is making its own weather. It's going every which direction. This is one of the worst I've ever been on. I've been doing it for quite a few years."
Meanwhile, the Tuolomne County Sheriff's department has issued an evacuation order Friday afternoon for the City of Tuolumne and Ponderosa Hills on the west side of the Rim Fire.
CalFire says the fire is growing in all directions, though the most damage has been done on the northern and eastern flanks. "The last couple of days, right around the mid-afternoon hour is when we're really seeing the most activity," says CalFire's Daniel Berlant. "An inversion layer sits over the fire in the morning starts to lift. The fire really gets enough heat that it generated and it just takes off."
Here is a video news report update on the Rim Fire entering Yosemite National Park:


text: We don't have any choice. Nothing said here can empower or impede Mr. Abrams. Sure, and if he can do a remake of the Godfather within the same amount of time, why not? Realistically, if he insists on being totally hands-on with both, both projects will take longer, and with greater fuss.


text:
NORTH CALDWELL, NJ - The West Essex School District (comprised of Essex Fells, Fairfield, North Caldwell, Roseland) is inviting parents of sixth grade students to an Orientation Meeting for all those who are considering registering for the 2013-2014 school year. The evening is designed to introduce parents to the academic programs West Essex Middle School offers.
The event will be held on Thursday night at 6pm in the Middle School Auditorium.
The evening's schedule is as follows:
ADP of Roseland Presentation 'Stay Safe Online'
A parent primer on teaching children how to use the internet safely
Middle School Guidance Staff will discuss
Registration and Course Selection for 2013 – 2014
Ms. Susan Sherman, Middle School Student Store Advisor, will be selling West Essex Middle School apparel
David Montgomery and Instructional Supervisors will discuss:
Heterogeneous Grouping
Accelerated and Supported Class Placement Criterion
Increased Rigor and Expectations of Middle School
- A Question and Answer period will follow
In case of inclement weather, a snow date is planned for Thursday, Jan. 31.
Credit: Allison Freeman
For further information:
West Essex Middle School
65 West Greenbrook Road
North Caldwell, NJ 07006
Facebook Page: West Essex Regional School District


text:
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|September 1, 2010, 01:16 PM
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Southeast Arkansas
Posts: 99
converting 22lr chamber to 22WMR?
i have a crickett single-shot 22 rifle, with a 1" stainless bull barrel.
i was wondering if the bore for a 22lr is the same diameter as a 22wmr?
would be a handy little backpacking rifle if i could have the chamber opened up to accept 22wmr ammo.
i suppose the bolt face and extractor would have to be compatible too.
any resources for the dimensions of these rounds?
The glass is not half full, nor is it half empty. You simply have twice as much glass as you need.01/01/09
|September 1, 2010, 01:46 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,375
The bore is NOT the same.
.22 lr is around .222" groove diameter if not a bit under.
.22 WMR is .224", same as most .22 centerfires.
Is the Cricket strong enough to stand swaging the bullet down? I dunno.
The rim diameter of .22 WRM is larger than .22 lr. Will that mean the firing pin would not hit near enough the edge of the rim for reliable ignition. I dunno, but you should before you start cutting steel.
|September 1, 2010, 01:57 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 13,004
In addition to the bore and cartridge dimension issues Jim mentioned, most 22 LR rifles have very poor lockup. Since the 22 WMR operates at much higher pressures than 22 LR, you may run into bolt jamming, extraction difficulties, and possibly rupture a case in firing. FWIW, I have seen very few 22 LR to 22 WMR conversions over the years that worked well, most had one or more of the issues mentioned.
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
|September 1, 2010, 02:04 PM
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Southeast Arkansas
Posts: 99
well, upon looking at the crickett website, they now offer them in 22wmr and 17hmr..
may not be worth the trouble if i can just buy one.
thanks guys, nevertheless
The glass is not half full, nor is it half empty. You simply have twice as much glass as you need.01/01/09
|September 1, 2010, 08:13 PM
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,310
I don't know about that little Cricket, but most barrels for .22 LR are made of fairly soft steel, while those made for .22 WMR are hardened to stand up to the greater heat, higher velocity, and the jacketed bullet. A .22 LR barrel won't last long firing .22 WMR. That is the main reason why WMR guns cost more than the apparently same gun in .22 LR. And why rechambering a .22 LR to .22 WMR is not advisable.
Jim K
|December 9, 2012, 06:52 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2012
Posts: 8
.22 to .22mag
This old thread is still often a topic of confusion with theories often more common than real facts. This conversion has been done thousands of times and with a break action gun like my model 24,nothing had to be changed. Even the extractor worked fine with just a little emery paper work. The big concern of most people is the much higher operating pressure of the .22 Mag but it isn't higher. Max pressure levels of both .22LR and .22 Mag are exactly the same at 24000 PSI. Surprised me the heck out of me too. The difference in Rim Dia shouldn't have any effect on misfires.
There is a bore diameter difference of .002" but a bullet swages down in tight bores by the time it travels once its own length. Some have reported less accuracy after the conversion but most don't notice any difference. If the gun isn't accurate to start with, don't expect much improvement after the conversion. The pressure increase due to the smaller bore would much less than expected. 6.72x39 ammo has a .311 bullet but are safe to fire in American made guns with .308 bores. The Ruger Mini 30 is just one example where Ruger has stated it is safe to fire military surplus ammo for the SKS and AK 47 with .311 bullets in the Mini 30 with a .308 bore. I converted my ".22LR over 20Ga model 24" because I often hunted rabbits in open fields including big jacks that would often bolt from too far away for the 20 Ga but frequently would stop running around 100 to 150 yds away and then stand up to look for the danger. Too far for the .22 RF but within reach of the .22 mag with a slight hold over at the longer ranges. The .22 mag is much better for the numerous Coyotes here as well. .22 mag is too expensive for my plinking habits or extended target shooting but inexpensive for hunting and with more than 2X the range and energy of a .22 LR. I wouldn't bother converting a bolt, pump or lever gun. The much longer .22 mag case makes that a very complicated issue. Not a problem with a single shot break action.
|December 9, 2012, 11:04 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 558
how much does it cost to convert a 22 to 22 mag? i have bought two 22 mag rifles, both were under $200 each with great accuracy allowing me to keep my 22's intact. i have a marlin glenfield model 25 in 22 cal that i bought new in 1969 for $29 that still shoots moa at 100 yards. why would i sacrifice that?
ya only got 1 arm and ya carry 3 guns for Christs sake. Well I don't want to get killed for lack of shooting back.
|December 10, 2012, 09:07 PM
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,310
Maybe there is no problem with single shots, but I suggest not converting old Flobert rifles to .22 WMR.
Jim K
|December 11, 2012, 06:04 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: November 21, 2011
Location: Southern Louisiana
Posts: 1,397
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text:
Exploring The Country Winners
You've seen the list of winners, now take a closer look at the artists winning in the Country Field categories for the 54th Annual GRAMMY Awards.
It was a night for Nashville's female stars to shine. Taylor Swift added two more GRAMMYs to her already crowded mantle, and fellow winners Lady Antebellum and the Civil Wars are both distinguished by the powerful vocals of their female members.
Best Country Solo Performance
Taylor Swift, "Mean"
Swift's "Mean" has become a positive anthem for her music fans worldwide. The video for the song was created in conjunction with the "Free Falling To End Bullying" campaign in conjunction with the Anderson Center for Autism. "Honestly, this song [has] been so close to my heart, and it was a song that I wrote when I was really, really hurting and going through a lot," Swift said backstage at the GRAMMYs.
Best Country Song
Taylor Swift, "Mean"
Swift wrote all of the songs on Speak Now, including "Mean." This was a first for the artist, and something of a rarity in country music. At 22, Swift now has six GRAMMY Awards to her name. She won for Best Country Song for "White Horse" in 2009.
Best Country Duo/Group Performance
The Civil Wars, "Barton Hollow"
This is the Civil Wars' first taste of GRAMMY gold. Before teaming as a duo, John Paul White and Joy Williams each had solo careers. In accepting his award, White quipped that he'd "bet a man a bottle of whiskey that this would not happen, and he just called me out for it." The duo also picked up honors for Best Folk Album for Barton Hallow.
Best Country Album
Lady Antebellum, Own The Night
This is the second Best Country Album GRAMMY for Lady Antebellum, following Need You Now in 2010. Both albums peaked at the No. 1 position on the Billboard 200. Charles Kelley, Dave Haywood and Hilary Scott now each have seven career GRAMMYs to their credit.


text:
Brooks Brothers red tie from Snowden seen with Joseph Gordon-Levitt (Edward Snowden)
As Seen on Edward Snowden (Joseph Gordon-Levitt) in Snowden
THE WHISTLEBLOWER : From Academy Award winning director Oliver Stone comes the hard-hitting biopic Snowden, a story about one man who made a stand against the NSA. Based on the true story that shocked the nation, follow Edward Snowden (Joseph Gordon-Levitt) on a terrifying journey as he dares to expose the truth. With a target on his back and a nation at its knees, he loved his country enough to risk everything.
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I started taking Hydroxycut about a month and a half ago and saw little or no progress. I came up with the idea that I was looking more bloated due to a lack of water intake,(when you don't give your body water it retains it) So, I started drinking tons of water; around 2 or 3 gallons a day and have started to see some better results. Is drinking this much water with Hydroxycut good or am I just counteracting the effects. If so how much water should I drink with this supplement. Also give me some tips on how to achieve the most from this product. Please respond I have looked everywhere else and have found no answers. I'm desperate!
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text:
I have a 2009 K1200LT
I can not find anywhere in the manuals the type of anti freeze required for the engine cooling system.
I keep 3 different kinds for my cars. They don't interchange.
I have a 2009 K1200LT
I can not find anywhere in the manuals the type of anti freeze required for the engine cooling system.
I keep 3 different kinds for my cars. They don't interchange.
Last edited by deilenberger; 04-14-2013 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Add year to thread title
I'm too lazy to go down and get the owner's manual to check, but my Clymer manual says this: "BMW Antifreeze/Coolant or brand name nitrite free coolant". The footnote says it's ethylene glycol based and lists a number of things it includes. But more importantly to me, list the things it does not contain which are nitrates and phosphates.
Chris Ehlbeck
Chris & Donna's Motorcycle Journeys
Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEX-COOL is a universal engine coolant that incorporates patented organic acid corrosion inhibitor technology. This coolant meets both ASTM D 3306 for automotive service and ASTM D 4985 for heavy-duty diesel service. It is a nitrite-, nitrate-, phosphate-, silicate-, borate and amine-free formulation.
I was lazy and bought the BMW blue coolant. It's $22 for the gallon which will need to be mixed 50/50 or 40/60 depending on locale. I think compared to stuff you pick up, this isn't that much more consider the bottle will last 2 coolant changes.
Some people try to turn back their odometers. Not me; I want people to know 'why' I look this way.
I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.
Will Rogers
There is a product by the name of "EngineIce" made by Cyclelogic Products Inc., - http://www.engineice.com/ . Probably aimed at crotch rockets primarily this is an excellent product to use in my opinion. Does cost more than any other coolant that I am familiar with but the stuff just plain works. No premixing involved. Just pour straight in out of the bottle.


text:
HS2 passes first Commons hurdle
Legislation for the controversial High Speed 2 railway eased over its first Commons hurdles tonight despite facing fierce opposition on the Government benches.
As expected, a wrecking amendment proposed by former Cabinet minister Cheryl Gillan was defeated 451 to 50, majority 401, with Tory rebels expected to make up around half of the aye votes when the division is analysed.
The High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill was then given a second reading 452 to 41, majority 411, as the Government and Opposition front benches united behind the plans for the link between London and Birmingham.
Rebel ringleader Mrs Gillan, whose Chesham and Amersham constituency is slated to be scythed through by the HS2 project, won applause from the public gallery with a vow to scrutinise the plans "inch by inch", even while acknowledging the "David and Goliath" vote on her amendment would always be won by Goliath.
Several ministers who are opposed to the project were thought to have stayed away, with Foreign Office Minister David Lidington in Estonia and newly appointed Treasury Minister Andrea Leadsom called to a meeting in Brussels.
Mr Lidington has said he is prepared to vote against the plans and resign later in the legislative process if concerns of his Aylesbury constituents are not met.
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin had earlier made the case for the line, insisting the time was right to build the first mainline north of London in more than a century.
He said: "Whilst I wholly understand the concerns of those MPs who constituents are affected by the route, I also know this is a decision we cannot duck. We have waited long enough - the West Coast Mainline can take no more.
"It is time for better links north to south and east to west, time to connect to world markets to make the most of their skills and talents, time for HS2."
Shadow transport secretary Mary Creagh joined endorsements for the plan, telling the second reading debate: "High Speed 2 will cut congestion on the railways, better connect our cities and help deliver a one-nation economic recovery which is why Labour is supporting this Bill tonight.
"It's 335 miles will be the longest and most ambitious peace of rail infrastructure to be built so far in this or the last century and managed properly HS2 has the power to transform the economic geography of our country.
"It will build our great cities and bring them closer together. It will connect people with each other to work and to leisure. And it will help rebalance the economy creating new skilled jobs and apprenticeships in every nation and region of our economy."
High profile rebel Michael Fabricant, sacked as a Conservative Party vice-chairman over his opposition to the project, said: " Five years ago, the Prime Minister, leader of the Conservative Party, said the Adonis route is profoundly wrong, that its whole implementation would be damaging to the environment, be damaging to local areas which could otherwise enjoy peace and quiet and would be damaging to the nation as a whole.
"And yet here we are five years on with the Government supporting the original Adonis plan. I find that quite extraordinary."
Transport select committee chairwoman Louise Ellman backed the plans, telling MPs her committee had looked at possible alternatives to HS2, including an upgrade of the West Coast Mainline.
She said. "The committee was very clear...u pgrading as an alternative will not provide the step change that is required."
Tory former deputy chief whip Sir John Randall said he would vote against the Bill, telling MPs the issue of HS2 was as important to him as the invasion of Iraq in 2003. S ir John resigned as an opposition whip in March 2003 over Britain's involvement in the invasion.
The MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip told the Commons: "I was told when I first came in here that the thing we should always think is put your country first, your constituency second and your party third, and I agree with that.
"I'm not putting my constituency first. I am putting my country first because I think at the moment this plan is not suitable for our country because it's going to ruin too much of it... I vote against tonight with a heavy but resolute heart."
The Hybrid Bill will now be scrutinised by a special select committee of MPs which, because of the Bill's unusual nature, will hear petitions from people affected directly by the line.


text:
Hi folks
I am interested to join Odessa State Medical School in Ukraine . I heard the city is very nice and beautiful. Is there anyone who is or has studied in Odessa State Medical Universiy.?
How is the quality of education?
Can anyone sit for PLAB or USMLE if they graduate from Odessa Medical university?
How is security in odessa?
I would be highly grateful to u for ur kind replies
till soon


text:
Big C, thanks for the video. But the Knicks Danillo Gallinari did not play in the 2nd Game vs Spurs. The reason Why is
Bum wasted Lottery Pick! Danilo Gallinari
He cant even play 5 summer games.
The Proffesional Euro League is that soft?
Another Coach Pet Player, and I thought the Knicks organization learned something from all of Isiah Pet Players.
Coach Isiah Thomas gave all of his "Pet-Players" so much playingtime when all they could produce were poor performances. Coaching like that affects the winning players on the roster waiting for some playingtime.
Danilo Gallinari is a coach Pet project that committed mistake after mistake his first 23 minutes on the court (with pure poor performance), and still gets more playingtime over 4 DNP teammates. It reminds me of coach Isiah Thomas doing. Now he cant play because the Summer League is to rough for him, so he pulls a Q.Richardson sore back injury like he was the only one that bumbed into Tractor Trailer. BULLSHUUT!
Knick-Fans are watching the Knicks summer League games to see Gallinari performance vs rookie NBA players.
And coach D'Antoni is resting Gallinari so he can play for the Olympics???????
Aint nothing changed with this Knick Team with the hiring of two more Idiots in Walsh and D'Antoni...
So basically you want Gallo to play in the 5 MEANINGLESS summer league games against players that for the most part won't be in the league and risk injury, rather then have him fully healthy for training camp?
This kid played a full Euro League season then did the workout tour, he's probably burned out. It's not like these games matter, he took place in the small mini camp over the weekend. Who cares about these games. I don't even see the point for Wilson Chandler and Nate Robinson to be playing in these games. The Bulls shut down Rose, the Clippers shut down Gordon and we shut down the guy we hope will be a big contributor over the next decade. Sounds like the smart move to me.
Also he's not even attending the Italian team camp anymore, he's skipping that to concentrate on getting into training camp shape.
I know theres nothing going on so we try to make the summer league mean something, but its meaningless and were looking far to much into it. I mean we were undefeated and had the summer league MVP last season and we only won 23 games, pretty obvious summer league games don't matter.
Gallo not playing in some summer league games is the least of our problems. I'd be more worried about the Marbury situation and trying to trade Zach Randolph then our 6th overall pick playing in some highschool gym games.
Also you complain about guys playing in these games then you also argue about players on the roster getting DNP? I mean are you serious, why do this grocery store guys deserve minutes, since for some reason Chandler, Nate, and Roberson are on the team they might as well play. If your the 12th guy on a summer league team its time to just give up.
Kiya all us posters for the most part are pessimestic about this team except for the real young kids who think we can win 50 games. But your pessimism reaches a whole new level. You hate on people who haven't even done anything yet.
Jeremon Linbury
Thanks Kia.
I think Danilo needs to hit the weight room as soon as possible. In the NBA the players are more physical and he will get hit like that all the time. I hope this does not mean he will sit out when things get tough. Gallinari's jumpshot did look good. At the same time in Italy the 3 point shot is closer compared to the NBA shot being far out. I see Danilo as a 2 year project. The things this kid needs to work on are:
Strong postup moves
And a signature move
Getting stronger
I guess the feeling is the Knicks don't expect to go anywhere next year or the year after. The only thing that matters is 2010. Which I suspect will get us probably Joe Johnson. I can't see the Knicks getting Wade or Lebron.
The one thing that I did see that was good is the development of Wilson Chandler. I think the guy can play both ends of the court. He also has a jumpshot to go with his ability to get to the hole.
I am still don't know what the Knicks will do as far as playing defense and rebounding. This team needs rebounds to run the break.


text:
Community Natural Foods Chinook
202 - 61 Ave. S.W.
At Community Natural Foods our passion is for FOOD, PEOPLE, and the EARTH we all share.
Our commitment is to provide unrefined and organic foods, natural nutritional supplements and sustainable lifestyle products dedicated to encouraging living a healthier, more natural life, conscious of our planet's well being.
Calgary's largest supplier of organic fresh fruits and vegetables, dairy products and alternatives, free range and organic meat and wholesome breads. Some supplied by local farmers and producers. Natural nutritional supplements. Body care, health, home, gifts and books.
- 100% Non-smoking
- Bull Frog Power (100% green electricity)
- Compost
- Debit Card/Interac
- Eco-apparel
- Eco-friendly
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- Family friendly
- Organic produce
- Recycle
- Solar technology
- Visa
- Water conservation
- Wheelchair access


text:
Local history through a glass plate
JAMAICA -- Collections of photographs taken before the use of film will be on display at Jamaica Town Hall on April 1, at 7 p.m.
"Some of these pictures are photographs from places in Jamaica," said Charlie Marchant of the photo committee of the Historical Society of Windham County, who will be presenting prints from glass plate negatives taken in the early 1900s.
The photographs will be from two photographers, Everett Vaile, who lived in Londonderry, and Harry Chapman, who was from Windham.
When the photographs go on display, viewers can identify places or views that Marchant's committee was unable to identify. During the showing, Marchant will also explain his printing process.
"If people have plates, we have the capability to (make prints)," he said.
Marchant is part of a group that works closely with the Wardsboro History Group.
"We copy glass plate negatives," said Marchant. "We take them and make them into contact prints, so you can look at them without looking at the negatives."
He has been doing this for more than 20 years, he told the Reformer.
A friend of Marchant's, who is also part of the photograph committee, had a dark room, and Marchant knew someone who had a collection of glass plate negatives.
"He said, 'Let's go to my dark room.' That started what we do every Wednesday night," said Marchant.
Since the 1990s, they have met on most Wednesday nights to make prints from glass plate negative collections that people bring them.
Marchant just finished printing a small Brattleboro collection and he is currently working on a Dummerston collection now.
He believes that people are interested in looking at these photographs because it shows what the region looked like back before people started using film.
The earliest photograph he has printed was taken in 1890. The latest was taken in 1930.
"We like looking at the old views of the towns and roads," Marchant said. "We like to take a picture of someone's house from 100 years ago and look at it today. In a lot of cases, (the houses) have been taken down or burnt down."
The Jamaica Historical Society has been collecting records of the town and its members continually add information or data. The president of the organization was a student of Marchant in high school.
"He's very involved with a lot of history in the area," said President of the Jamaica Historical Society Karen Ameden. "He gets (the photographs) out, so people can identify them and see them, too." For more information on the Jamaica Historical Society, visit Jamaicahf.info.
If you'd like to leave a comment (or a tip or a question) about this story with the editors, please email us. We also welcome letters to the editor for publication; you can do that by filling out our letters form and submitting it to the newsroom.


text:
Academic Processional and Recessionalarr. Robert W. Smith & Ed Huckeby - C L Barnhouse Company
Pomp and Circumstance and Sine Nomine are standard processional and recessional melodies for academic ceremonies and functions worldwide. Here is a fresh and creative new perspective on these academic standards. The scoring is exceptional, yet achieved with limited instrumentation. With the band seniors involved in the ceremonies and not performing with the band, the voicing of these arrangements make them easy to prepare and will sound great!
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text: I got new toys today! They are not quilt related, but they will be in my sewing room. I got a swift and ball winder for all my yarn! Much of it is in skeins that need to be balled before knitting. This will make everything both neater and easier to handle. I am so excited. I wish I could spend the day tomorrow balling the yarn and putting it in baskets on my shelves. I will do some tonight and more tomorrow afternoon. Fun!