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|2012-12-16, 19:12
|Link #6661
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 27
And also the Book of the Silver Cross is something more than that. You see if the good guys could get their hands on the Book of Darkness before the Wolkenritter could finish it, what would happen to As? It will happen something: The Wolkenritter attacking the Artha or even killing to get it back, Graham doing something odd or more drastic, etc. but it will made up for something: in Force the Silver Cross does nothing at all and it seems like nobody even care for it anymore. Is like The Silver what? Who needs that crap? The AEC weapons, now that is some neat stuff right there, lets go Is just odd, and doesnt seem to make sense. Is like Sauron getting the Ring on LOTR and doing nothing with it. Is like the Relics on StrikerS, with time they become pointless and have not use, even when at the beginning they were a real trouble. Just saying, seems like it will be the same case here.
How the investigation is flawed? Allow me to share who I think it is. First, how did they know the Hückebein family was involve? They were already looking for them: how? Why? Never explain. But that is ok, kind of, so what about the rest. First they get to Ruwella and find the remains of the lab and accuse Thoma of being a thief and, I presume, didnt bother talking with the scientist there since they didnt get a clue on Vandin, so how they proceed with those guys? Just there I dont get anything since is never explain. Later we see them doing nothing ultil they catch Thoma as the Hückebein attack Vandin, they go there to investigate find a lot of proofs that they were experimenting with Eclipse and living peoples as well as proof that the Hückebein attack them and the Hardis is lying and yet they wait 3 months to act, when time is running short and they want to stop the criminals. But there a lot of plot convenience things that we never see that hold them back to the point they are just talking, 3 months later, that Hardis was hiding something. When in the past this has never being an issue, that is what I call pretending, acting like there is some mystery or tricks when there is none.
We all see it coming Hardis was evil, he say it himself so watching the heroes catch up what is plan and obvious doesnt make them bright if you ask me. They never show what kind of investigation they are doing and we spend time after time with the rookies, that is true, but then I wonder if they arent even trying. Because is really easy. I mean they all seem to be in the case of what is going on and yet they do nothing about it, because the manga will be over in like 2 seconds.
In the end yes, we need to wait but I am just saying what it looks to me like doesnt make sense and I will want an explanation. If its going to be one, good, but until it is I will sit and say what I think is nor right. Just that, expressing my opinion.
|2012-12-16, 20:34
|Link #6662
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
For a moment things looked very different than in previous seasons (Original Season was mainly about Nanoha befriending a beautful girl, heck, in the Movie 1st manga Nanoha's intervention wasn't even key to solve Precia's case the bureau did it all without much trouble xDU). 2nd season had sme tension but nowhere as much. We've got glimpses of the Wolkenritter's niceness right from the start and their treat of the heroes wasn't nearly as evilish, the Masked guys were the ones who posed the most mistery and threat during the season. Even in StrikerS where the stakes and damage were more "realistic" it was more or less stated the numbers are considerably weaker than the main cast powerwise, hence their overreliance in teamwork, deceiving tactics and batallions of Gadget Drones equiped with AMF tech aiding them in battle.
In FORCE we knew right from the start that the villains are awfully stronger than the heroes, that they aren't nice people at all (affably evil at best), that the cool powers trained and developed by our heroes for years are now useless and that their new weapons are actually weaker than their old ones (again not making this up, Vita herself gave us plenty of exposition about how dire their situation is for being forced to rely on AEC-Equipement). The odds were really bad and the implication of our heroes being forced to finally draw blood on the battlefield was greater than ever, adn then ...nothing happened. The highlight of the bloodshed was Signum being slaughtered then all the carnage got toned down to the point of being the same as before ...only lamer.
At least i'm getting a few laughs with the Grendels and i'm waiting for something interesting to happen with them ...or for something interesting to happen at all xDU The main plot started to run in circles for about 6 chapters and as i said i'm waiting to see what the heck Curren is planning. Sansker is right about plot keys being constantly thrown then forgotten so i hope this is not the case here, Curren is supossedly going after something big and Hardis is supposedly confident about having his plans running smoothly so i hope things get finally explained soon.
|2012-12-16, 22:57
|Link #6663
One thing to keep in mind, and this is something that has been stated over and over: Force is a once a month manga. Yes, 3+ years is an incredibly long time for how much we've gotten, and it makes it seem like the story is dragging. I think it sucks, too. I'd prefer a once a week manga, but we get what we get.
AEC weapons, I'll also partially agree, but mainly because I don't particularly like most of them. I would have preferred they either stick with the original devices and just made upgrades to them. They do make some sense in that they are purposefully made to distribute to the standard rank-and-file as a means to convert magic into physical matter in order to battle anti-magic foes (even ignoring the Hucks, AMF weaponry is on the rise). Still, you can create physical matter with magic anyway, but perhaps the new weapons make it easier for C and D ranked mages.
So it is explained.
The manga can't and won't show everything. Some things will just have to be presumed. You can presume they are investigating, just like Hayate had been doing in Strikers. It didn't show Hayate investigating the combat cyborg business, but she was behind the scenes, and that was revealed later when she confronted Auris. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Hell, part of your problem is that this is taking so long, and yet, if they were to show every small detail that you want them to, it would stretch this out even longer!
All I can say, and repeat, is just to be patient. When Force ends, then there will be time for criticism on what they did and didn't do, and what they should or shouldn't have done.
Because, from where I stand, it seems far more likely that there was considerably more death meted out by the Book of Darkness, then the Hucks could ever hope to match. And considering that we are pretty much expected to believe the Wolkenritter never showcased any real emotions (while the Hucks have) and thus were true emotionless killing machines, and a reasonable guess would conclude that some masters might have been far crueler than others, then we can also presume there was considerably torture going on as well.
Yet, because all of that happens off camera, we can dismiss it.
I'll admit, it's a strange facet of humanity, to automatically dismiss things that aren't directly shown in front of them. That's why we don't really think about the African children who are sold into slavery, worked the bone, raped, and then slaughtered wholesale, because we don't really see it. "Out of sight, out of mind" as the saying goes.
And yet, show a little blood, and suddenly it's "OMG! Tsuzuki is betraying the kind and gentle nature of the show with bad guys who are doing really bad things! This, like, NEVER happened before! They are actually SHOWING dead bodies and blood this time around! That, like, NEVER existed before!"
I'm using humor here, but seriously Aki, we ain't encountering any real new ground here. :P If anything, we're just being shown what has already been happening, so we can't pretend it never existed.
|2012-12-17, 00:22
|Link #6664
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 27
English is not my first language, you are right. But I think I am not that bad with it. Let me explain it.
What I mean is that for every action take by any group, something will have to change. And that is what doesnt happen here. Yeah the good guys dont want to rule the world or whatever but if they have a hold of the enemy most precious thing: why the bad guys arent even trying to take it back? Oh yeah, because there is a mystery when they will take it later for no real reasons other than to create a mystery and pretend there is something going on. And even so why the good guys arent trying to see if they can study the Silver Cross to stop the Eclipse? they just let a 15 years old go around with the Lost Logia like is some kind of iPad. Even letting him go near other people when they dont know if he can explode or do something, so I am assuming the thing isnt important anymore because of how is being deal with.
Things that happen off screen is pointless. Because if it doesnt get focus is for a reason and when you can use it as an explanation of what happen in the main plot is just lazy writing that didnt knew how to fit all the parts. That is why I say is odd, because it feels like the author forget about it and they just bring it on later.
The investigation itself is very put aside. This creates the feeling of mystery, right? So why is all the investigation show rather like off camera? I mean how is that the TSAB knows they are call Hückebein but doesnt seem to know who are their members? Did they just went in to every single town and proclaim: We are the Hückebein kind of like Jail being so kind to put his name on the drones so Fate could find it? I mean that things are solve rather fast or being present with troubles to fit the plot. That is what is call plot convenience
And yes, they did call Thoma a thief. You see the investigation itself is so odd to me I need to explain it point by point, but that will take it too long. I was writing the other post rather fast, so I let a lot out. I mean they do know the Hückebein were the ones attacking the villages thanks to Teana, but we later learn that were the fake Hückebein because we see Arnage and Veyron stopping the fake Hückebein when they do just that and even show some feeling over the fact they just kill a lot of people when until that point they didnt even care. So were the fake Hückebein just going around saying they were the originals? If that is the case, why? To lead the TSAB to the Hückebein and not to the fake ones? But if they are all Eclipse Drivers why they will want to make the TSAB hear about the Eclipse in the first place? But ok, they might want them to eliminate the Hückebein for them so why isnt Vandin actually helping the TSAB and is the other company doing the job? Fine maybe explain later.
But on the TSAB side: they did found the lab on Ruwella where Thoma take the Silver Cross while there were on another planet blowing something up and revealing they didnt find the Silver Cross there. So how did they get to know about the Silver Cross on the first place? If they were already chasing the labs on other planets how is that they dont have anything on Vandin up until that point when its clear there is an organization behind it. I mean the tech, the people I cant buy none of them talk or at some point Hayate didnt just call Verossa to read their minds for a few seconds. So they didnt make a connection between the Hückebein and the guys making Eclipse Drivers? If they realize there were two different teams then why they never try to track down anything back to the source and we didnt even get to see what happen to the people on the lab ever again.
Later when we find out that Vandin is behind it all they say there is something suspicions about Hardis when they discover: that his company was experimenting with a deathly virus without telling anybody, creating copies of deadly weapons, experimenting on living human beings and lying on the face to their investigators when they ask who attack them I will say that is more than enough to put you in jail, but here we need to wait so the 3 guys who we just pick up train and join the SD6 either they want to or not. I mean is this the mystery? That Hardis was bad? It was obvious. And why is he doing this? Well that is the mystery because his actions dont make any sense at all. He let the TSAB put him on jail, he let the Grendels fool him and he betray the Hückebein I do hope we get something out of it.
Last edited by Sansker; 2012-12-17 at 14:42.
|2012-12-17, 01:46
|Link #6665
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
Sure, i don't expect to receive every piece of specific detail of a plot, that would be nearly impossible, not to mention the boring lenghts of exposition (a thing that set me apart from Super Robot Wars anime series, the robot fights are cool but the speeches and political exposition is pretty long and booooring -_-). But you can show progres in a dynamic way, A's has very good dynamic, after Nanoha and Fate got beaten we've got to see the Wolk's lives and reasons to fight, then we switched back to the TSAB working and discussing notorious progress on the investigation around the Wolks, then switched back and forth between the two groups doing and saying important and character building stuff with pretty cool confrontations thrown in the middle of such developement (without being forced on the plot as the confrontation between the opponents also add to their developement ...take Signum's fights with Cypha and look back to her fights with Fate and i dare you to tell me Cypha's fights are better and added more to the developement of the participants). StrikerS felt really slow on this department, they tried to expose the life on RF6 so the audience get a grasp of the new dynamics, and that's ok, it's an important task to update returning viewers abvout changes in the setting, it was nice for a couple of chapters but then it was dragged veeery long and became boring as a result, the ocassional fights against Gadget Drones added very little as well.
FORCE is suffering from the same, it's dragging things far longer than necessary, ok the Hucks are really mean and strong we've got it, fine! Tohma feels sad is being pressed by his inner anger so please move on, got it! possesed tohma is so powerfull not even Nanoha is a match for him ...can we please continue? ...oh boy a family reunion filled with all new member of the Hucks? Cool! i can wait for ...uh? it'll take another two years for that event to happen? oh well, nevermind.
The writing stopped being the main problem for me long ago (guess i can't stay so angry and hurtful for more than two and a half years ...so ok, Signum is just another average joe fighter of the bunch, i got it xDU). Things i want to see are happening in the plot and characters that appeal to me are now appearing (Carter "Idiot Boss" Grendel LOL xD) ...but they're taking an eternity to get to points already stablished more than a year ago, as much as i enjoy the Grendels's antics their introduction fight felt like an asspull that aported very little to the main story (not to mention wasting Signum's rematch against Cypha during such an unconvenient scenario ...they need to fight their last match on the top of an active volcano or a self-destructing secret facility or something like that). If electricity-supported civilization manage to survive Dec 21 i hope to see resolution on the coming important plot events already stablished in FORCE. I'm waiting for it.
...and yeah, i ended up writing a wall of text after all xDU
|2012-12-17, 19:38
|Link #6666
And, FYI, they let a 9 year old go around with a weapon of mass destruction in S1.
And Jail putting his name on things, is because he has a huge ego. Not a plot convenience.
And Vandin's motives are a bit shrouded in mystery, but that's natural. We didn't know Precia's motives until near the end. We didn't know Jail's real motives until near the end. This is fairly standard story-telling, for a villain to keep his real motives a secret. I'm not sure why you have a problem with it, since you've come through S1 and StrikerS.
But it is established that they don't have anything on Vandin yet (as of the translated volumes I have access to). They didn't even really know he was involved, and it's not surprising. If he's trying to actively hide his involvement (which is sounds like he is), then the Bureau may not be too sure. They know someone is making Eclipse stuff, just not who. It's partly why they want to get their hands on the Hucks and other Eclipse infectees, to see who is doing this.
It's up to the writer to establish what his characters do and do not know going into a story. It's not something to get hung up over, because it's a fair thing for a writer to do. I do it myself all the time, with my stories. You have to establish a base line somewhere, so as long as you do so, it's perfectly normal.
There are some things to question and issues to criticize, but this isn't one, sorry.
On that note...
Aki, look at things this way:
We have 20 translated volumes. Not sure how many we're up to with the untranslated ones, but I'll go with 30. With a normal weekly manga, that would 6-7 months of story(if we go with 30). If it was once-a-week, you honestly would be satisfied with the pace.
But really, the pace does seem slow, because it comes out Once. A. Month. And sometimes it skips a month. That's a long time to wait, and it will make things seem longer in your mind. It's the difference between watching a pot boil, and doing something fun while the pot heats up. One will seem faster than the other.
That's why you have and Sansker have lots of questions. I do, too. But the series has BARELY gotten started. Did you want to know the entire plot upon the completion of the second episode of A's? Did you demand that they explain all? Did you think A's had a lot of problems because it didn't explain everything in episode 3?
Or did you sit and wait to watch the rest of the series to to watch as everything unfolded?
Your presents are sitting under the Christmas tree, but goddamn... wait until Christmas. No amount of whining about wanting to know what's in them, will change the time frame between now and then.
|2012-12-17, 21:15
|Link #6667
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 27
The same as always: give it time. But it has already had plenty. Don't get me wrong, I get what you mean but I am not that whiling to forgive it here because it takes so long.
Hey, is just my take on the matter but just to show how we can have this kind of visions on the same things. First, the Hückebein don't want a war with the TSAB? Why not? I mean is not like they have been proving too much of a threat for them so, why they even care? Of course you could argue here, but I am talking about what we have been seeing so far. So yes, I can assume they are not making any progress for the same reason you assume they are making some progress with the Silver Cross: We aren't told and we don't see them. So really could be one or the other.
And yes, I know they keep an eye on Thoma but again: we aren't told. I mean the Eclipse was this huge thing that can destroy the magic society, so I am not willing to let the guy with such powers walk around freely. Nanoha is not the same when you consider she was her normal self with her own powers and the Jewel Seeds were all seal with already know spells on a very reliable device as Raising Heart. Is an endless argument there.
And yes, I would like to see the investigation. Talking about the case, sharing what they know, talking with witnesses and getting information… there is a ton of ways to handle that and we can seem them being active and progressing their investigation. Not like so far where they just seem to forget about it until the truth hits them on the face.
There is just a small problem with Cypha's words. We do get to see later Arnage and Veyron fighting the fake Hückebein and entering a village after those destroys it and kill every single human. In that situation Arnage says that was a very bad action and seems kind of shock by the deaths of a bunch of unknow people. Not to mention is obvious that the duo of the gunblade and the book are not the Hückebein.
Also Jail putting his name on the drones? Plot convenience. There is no way around it: how else could we even get to know he was involved on the fights? It was a cheap excuse to cover the fact the villain has no real introduction on the sotry. For that matter I still don't know what Jail's goal was even at this point, since is never clear.
Precia did show her objectives soon: get the Jewel Seeds, the Wolkeritter: complete the Book of Darkness, hell even Jail was trying to get Relic. All of them had clear goals and they were trying to get them done, but on Force no bad guy has a clear motivation and is making me confuse. What I mean all the time is that rather than being actually face with a mystery I am not getting anything of this sotry and when you have your readers asking things like: "Who is this guy?" "Why that happen?" or "Why they did that?" is not a good sign. I can take some mystery if the bases are clear, but they are not.
So is really the fact that the bad guys have no clear goal and that they seem to be jumping around that doesn't get me involve with the story. And the we enter realms of bland and bad characters who also doesn't help the fact that the story is confusing, with a terrible pace and not clear tone. You say you do that when you are writing but little build ups will help the later payoff. Because otherwise when a character long forget just jumps in the scene and says "I get the solution, I was working on it while you were gone" it feels cheap.
Of course we can keep the "Wall of Texts War" and not get to an agreement. I am just saying that, on my opinion, the story feels confusing, the characters are bland or downright bad and it could be avoid it if the writer just make it simpler and not so unnecessary complex. That is just all. We don't need to get angry, just share ideas. I do get your points Kaijo, but I am not convinced and only time could proof us wrong or right.
|2012-12-17, 21:42
|Link #6668
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
On the issue of time pacing in my opinion that stopped being an excuse long ago. 30 manga chapters are more than enough to make some decent progress on a story, it's been done before. And FORCE is infact dragging stuff more than necessary. We're not on Ep 2 of A's anymore, heck there has been like 4 encounters with the Huckebein already and now the 5th is about to star on next chapter (not to mention the Grendels and Tohma. And even after all that showoff of abilities, lame upgrades and some exposition we still don't have a freaking clue on what's really happening xDU
Instead of A's Ep 3, FORCE is right now more like on StrikerS Ep 11, near the half of the season, some battles happened but plot developenet is slow as hell and the series still feels like there's no solid direction to move the plot (i swear, until the Numbers attempted to kill Vivio on the helicopter StrikerS's plot felt like a child lost in a park xDU) ...ok, in FORCE's defense, the plot do have some sense of direction or at least we have been told by characters about important events soon to happen ..the problem is that "soon" has been delayed mercilessly for almost two years now xDU (of a manga that is about to reach it's 4th year xDU).
It's a once-per-month manga, ok, but the fact pagetime over those 27 Chapter has been badly administrated is more and more evident as time goes on and the story is still stuck on the same stuff.
|2012-12-17, 22:03
|Link #6669
Look, I'm just gonna say this much... Reread chapters 16, 17 and 18. 90% of the questions you keep bringing up, are answered there. You get your answers in the form of the investigation, and various reasons for why people are doing things.
On RF6 and the Book of the Silver Cross: Ch16, page 15
On Touma being dangerous: Ch 16, page 24
Curren's motives: Ch 17, the first several pages. Curren is getting more interesting to me, especially at this point. She clearly has a desire to "destroy evil and do good" even if it is her own twisted version of it. She comes across much like a rogue vigilante, which keeps us (and Hayate) a bit off balance, and helps explain a bit about why they don't go after RF6. They just want to be left alone.
The investigation being shown as ongoing: Ch.17 and 18 (as well as showing how Vandin is explaining things to RF6 regarding his involvement with the Eclipse project).
And that's just a few chapters I grabbed at random. You can find the investigation happening in nearly every damn chapter. So I really don't know what you expect. They do everything you complain that you don't see. It really is starting to make me wonder if you've actually read the manga, or are just reading summaries provided by others.
Seriously, Sansker, your questions have been answered before. Actually answered. They are in the manga, in the chapters thus released *and* translated. You may want to go back and re-read what we have until now, or at least the three I pointed out, because you are really coming across as someone who hasn't actually read what the actual story. Perhaps you only read it once awhile ago, and your mind missed some details; in that case, I'd suggest re-reading it and going slow, to pick up on everything.
Shari: "Why would such a criminal go to such a length to show that it was his work?"
Fate: "If it were actually him, he'd be trying to provoke us. If it were someone else, they'd be trying to mislead us."
Both logical extrapolations. Fate is saying that, *if* it is Jail, he's essentially saying, "Yeah, I'm behind it. Come get me, if you can. Although I know you can't. Hahaha!"
Also, Precia's true goal was the revival of Alicia, which we didn't find out until episode 11. And while I'll grant that we knew the Wolkenritter's goal early on (if you consider episode 6 - the middle of the series! - to be early), we didn't find out about Graham's involvement and his goal until near the end.
Seriously, dude. Every single one of your complaints is a common Nanoha staple. They've happened before. They'll happen again. If you think it's bad, I suggest you stop reading/watching, because if Tsuzuki does a new Nanoha series, he'll do it again.
Although I suppose Vivid doesn't follow the model, but then again, it doesn't have much of a plot in the first place. Or if could, because we're in a bit of a mystery as to what the hell is the point of the manga, heh. And I find it interesting that, over in Vivid, you say we need to give the author time... and yet you seem unwilling to give him time on Force, when Force actually has a plot that is moving, and Vivid is just a fanservice shonen tournament. Do you really want Force to be more like Vivid and have *less* plot?
Okay, sure, I'll grant that it's not still early on, but I think you underestimate just how much has happened. I'd say we're 40% of the way there, if not close to 50%. In terms of A's, that's episode 6. We still have quite a ways to go. StrikerS is a bit of a bad example to follow, since it felt like they stretched things out to cover the 26 episode format; a manga doesn't need to cover a season or two.
A VERY brief summary thus far:
Touma is out traveling, gets a call from Lily and goes to save her, and gets infected.
After destroying the base and trying to escape the authorities, he teams up with Isis.
RF6 gets reformed, with Hayate's goal being the capture of the Huckbein, since Teana's investigation suggested they are behind things (and the bureau has known of them for some time)
New weaponry is hinted at amongst several investigative leads.
Touma encounters Veyron, amidst several flashbacks that explain his past
Touma fights Veyron, the latter retreating after Isis comes in for backup.
The rest of the Hucks show up anyway and attempt to take him
Signum and Agito show up and fight Cypha, although they lose.
Some explanations are had while Touma and the others are captive aboard the Huck's ship.
Hayate's ship and RF6 attack the Huck's ship, and several chapters of pretty cool combat follow.
Touma and friends are eventually reclaimed
While RF6 studies and trains Touma (and his friends), we get explanations about Curren and her motives, and yet more investigations into the Eclipse (and Vandin)
That's 20 chapters. And I'll note that the beginning of Chapter 20 says, "The much awaited second arc of the newest "Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha" is finally achieving a proper start!" You want to claim that it's slow going and nothing much has happened, when we've had tons of explanations and several lengthy combat sessions including one major full one battle between two sides. If this is just the start, then I'm excited, because we have tons more to go, and we've already gotten a lot!
This isn't StrikerS. This is A's with 26 episodes. We've gotten more in 20 chapters then we got in the first half of StrikerS. Manga chapters are fairly sparse by nature, and so depending on how they animate it, a single anime episode can cover 2 to 4 manga chapters. If we presume 3 chapters an episode, then we're on episode 7 of Strikers.... not even a third into a 26 ep season. Seriously, Aki, I don't know what else you want. You've gotten way more crammed into 7 episodes then we had with StrikerS.
So, again, what is really bugging you is the once-a-month nature. And yes, I'll agree that sucks and makes it seem like so much time has passed and we haven't gotten near enough.
Last edited by Kaijo; 2012-12-17 at 22:24.
|2012-12-18, 00:02
|Link #6670
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
If you want to bring up comparisons to One Piece, I can think of a few that aren't as flattering. Just saying.
Is there a notable manga that's been running about the same time as Force? That would be the best possible method of judging something that keeps getting brought up.
|2012-12-18, 00:12
|Link #6671
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 27
Ok, I read those chapters, still don't get it. And doesn't make the story better. You don't seem to realize my major problem with Force. Is not only that I don't like it, is because it fails on deliver. It keeps changing its pacing, changing the focus, playing with everything to get mention later and has so much going on that is hard for me to keep the track. Yes I will want some less plot with less characters and a more focus story. You seem to enjoy the mess when I can't get a hold on anything. Quick dialogue and one liners to cover up a 3 chapters before question is hard to get.
Look at the Raptors. Introduce, forgotten, bring up again, defeated and now they can be dead for all I know. But I am sure they will reappear one more time and is just that the story itself is not bad, I have problems with execution and the result. I have it here, in ViVid and of course in StrikerS. Anything beyond A's have been hard to keep up, introduce new lamer characters and is a mess as an overall story. Since tries to do so much feels weak or fast where I should care or being connected. That is it. The questions and the rest come from me just not being able to keep up with this crappy pace.
|2012-12-18, 00:14
|Link #6672
Oh, obviously there are other comparisons you can make, although the validity of such comparisons can be debated. And I'm not sure what other once-a-month manga you can look to as far as what has started around the same time. Another favorite once-a-month manga of mine is Nagaserate Airantou, and it had even less than Force revelead by the 20th chapter. Though it's more of a lighthearted shonen harem.
I suppose I could put it this way... if I were turning Force into an anime, I'd pace it like so:
Force Ep1: (Chapters 0 to 2) - Thoma rescues Lily and ends ep with him blasting the area.
Force Ep2 (Chapers 3 to 5) - Thoma has escaped, meets up with Isis, and fights Veyron, collapsing afterward. Cypha and Arnage show up to capture the group, and Signum descends with Agito.
Force Ep3 (Chapters 6 and 7) - Thoma has flashback while in fever, Signum fights with Cypha, ultimately losing, and the Hucks take Thoma and friends.
Force Ep4 (Chapters 8 to 10) - Explanations are had aboard the Huck's ship, while Hayate pulls her team together for pursuit. The attack begins, and ep ends when Thoma gets possessed by the book, and they are ejected from the ship.
Force Ep5 (chapters 11 to most of 15) - Battle continues, and concludes with Lily reacting with Thoma to stop him as the Huck's fly off.
Force Ep6 (Chapters 15 to 19) - Curren's escapades tracking down and killing Vandin personnel and other eclipse infectees, while RF6 recovers, Thoma is trained, and the investigation continues.
Force Ep7 (chapters 20 - ?) Curren sends invite/threat to Thoma, Thoma fights Signum, and ...?
StrikerS had it's first battle in episode 5, and it was relatively minor. By comparison, Thoma fights in ep 2, Signum/Cypha in Ep3, and we have a major conflict spanning eps 4 and 5. 6 has some minor combat between Hucks and other eclipse infectees as well. *And* we've had a ton of plot exposition and explanations and flashbacks already.
At least, this is how I'd do it. The only iffy thing is the number of chapters for Ep5; given the volume, if I wanted to flesh things out a bit, I might push the end of the major battle into Ep 6, and thus fill out ep 7 with some of the stuff I have in ep 6. It might not flow as well, though.
Still, I think we've gotten a decent amount of stuff to be 7 episodes into a 26 episode series. We have the bad guys established, although full motives and explanations are still a mystery. And we've had quite a bit of action so far, too. Seems decently paced to me. Not sure what else one might want.
Edit: Ah, Sansker, I see your problem. Yeah, Vivid has a MUCH similar plotline, so if one is used to that, Force's more complex plot would naturally be more confusing. There's a lot of characters and aspects to juggle, that it can be hard to miss the subtle byplay between all them. So, I'd suggest you stop reading Force and stick with Vivid and other simpler manga. Will be less confusing for you.
|2012-12-18, 00:20
|Link #6673
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
I think the one you made can be debated, personally, but this isn't a thread about that series.
You could probably go fewer than that, honestly, depending on if they feel like adding onto fights. So we could be looking at a Force anime in...2015ish, maybe? Hopefully no-one gets tired of Dog Days in the mean-time.
|2012-12-18, 00:37
|Link #6674
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 27
ViVid is horrible as well, is just knows it and still pretends has a story. The chapters I just read show it really well. But as I say too much and nothing really of value. You see the main villain hasn't been establish, we don't know what anybody but the good guys is trying to get and still have a lot of characters that seems to go nowhere. Is not a lot of good things, is a lot of bad and poor written things. Like what happen with StrikerS. So in the end we are making a rather simple story an over complex mix that doesn't keep you attention for too long.
Last edited by Sansker; 2012-12-18 at 01:37.
|2012-12-18, 02:00
|Link #6675
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
You're making all of that sound to be bigger than it really was...
I swear that if a FORCE anime were done by him we'll be still seeing Tohma travelling with Isis and Lily by Ep 7 and the first major battle of Hucks VS. S6 happening on Ep. 14 xDU
|2012-12-18, 03:05
|Link #6676
Join Date: Jul 2010
Anime is expensive so plots are compressed, but Nanoha fallows a very simple formula, we meet our main hero(s), rival(s) show confront them, retreat, they meet a governmental ally who fills them on what is going on, turns out the bad guys aren't that bad except for one or two elements that they don't know how to deal with, the redeemable foes(particularly the rivals defect after a sound beating true villain is brought down thanks to a joint effort, the former villains are rehabilitated and incorporated into the military structure.
A novel can spend within good measure about a third of the plot distinguishing who is the bad guys, and then you learn their objectives particularly if there is more then one group in play.
The Hucks are clearly going to defect they. They have been lenient on the heroes, blamed for things they didn't do, and are afflicted by a disease that makes them violent. From what I've seen the Grendal's are a bunch of pawns that enjoys their illness and are ready to use devious methods to subvert the heroes.
The pacing seems fine to me especially if Toma takes the meeting we are most likely to learn the Hucks' motivation. This is an inter-dimensional crisis with biological warfare, all the other seasons were restricted to one planet, complexed things take time to work out.
Spoiler for thoughts:
Sure I wish it would come out faster but what good is it to complain? Do you know the author reads English and visits this site, I doubt it. Why even read it if you have nothing good to say about it. I have a complaints, mainly about the author forgetting the definition of main character, but what good does it do to get this mad about things we really have no voice in?
|2012-12-18, 03:29
|Link #6677
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
In short words the Huckebein have worst identified crimes under their belt which will make the "reform them and put it into military service" a lot harder than in past seasons.
Thinking about it, a plausible way could be to form a special squad with the Huckebein to do all the worst, extreme and most dangerous and morally questionable jobs the TSAB have for them in exchange of sparing them from their death penalties. Sort of a "Suicide Squad". That could be interesting and even triger their own spin-off manga should Tsuzuki wants to do it (being far more capable in a battlefield than Section Six ever hope to be).
|2012-12-18, 08:35
|Link #6678
Aki, the 7 episodes I listed out, would pretty much be Force if Tsuzuki had it animated. As I said, 2-4 manga chapters per episode is standard. The only currently running series I could point you to that I watch, is Fairy Tail. You can see for yourself, if you watch that, that it takes 2-4 chapters per episode. What eats up time is talking and exposition; when you take combat from manga and put it into anime, you usually find that you've only used up very little time.
So, as I was trying to point out, we're only 7 episodes in. Given what we've learned and established so far (tons of characters, and their motivations and some of their backstories, as well as combat and several plot developments), you just can't call it slow. If this were a weekly anime, I guarantee, you wouldn't be calling it slow at all.
At the very least, it's faster than StrikerS.
And Sansker, it's fine. If you don't get it and understand things by now in Force, you aren't going to, and I don't care to try and explain and point out pages anymore because that will involve walls of texts while I spell out every single detail you keep missing (or choosing not to see). Unless you want to stick a very specific thing, and I can point out every single place in the manga that addresses it. But that's only if you really want to understand, which I don't think, at this point, that you do.
|2012-12-18, 10:53
|Link #6679
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 27
No, again you don't get what I mean. I do understand, because I did read the story again but is so confusing and hard to get that I actually need extra reading in order to get some of these ideas. That is not a good sign. And is still my point. Yes, takes time, yes is development but who says that is making it good? Tons of characters, yes, back story from only Thoma and Lily since all the rest haven't give any at all. Veyron doesn't count; one page flashback without context doesn't mean backstory and I don't think the Grendel or the Hückebein family have more. In fact we don't even know why some of the Hückebein aren't named "Hückebein" like Stella or that new girl that appears on later episodes.
But I don't want to hear "later on" since this is not creating "The Usual Suspects" I only ask for a clear goal to for the characters to be working on. Instead we don't have one since the Silver Cross, the thing we supposedly wanted all this time, is already on the good guys hands. So the rest falls on "what should we do now?" And that is the rest of the manga. And I am sorry if you like the characters or the story but is just so bad. The story is the same from previous seasons, bad guys ending up like good guys, but back there we at least try to give them something. Here the author just keeps sending more and more stuff to the story instead of sticking on what he already has. That is the reason why I am starting to wonder the parts that are missing, the story isn't interesting is confusing. And like I said I can take a mystery if at least you give some bases clear.
But no this kind of thing where the focus of the story has already being change 3 times in its first third of the series. I will not mind it if the author take its time to reveal something but he creates too many questions and when he gives answers is just creating more questions. Slow? Sometimes Force can be too fast for its own good and since is repeating the same formula from previous seasons is boring because I already know what is going to happen. So the mystery is more of an annoying thing rather than an interesting one. Who cares what is the Hückebein family's motive when we know how they will end? Or worse, who cares about the Grendel family when we already have the Hückebein and Hardis? I mean if the Grendel were a part of things since the beginning why they didn't appear until now? Oh yes, the author didn't think about it.
And so with questions and villains already confusing their motives we introduce even more characters that so far add nothing to the story. Just think about it. I can remove the Grendels and the Hückebein could still try and find Hardis to do whatever they want. Maybe creating another attack to distract the good guys and even have Signum and Cypha fighting. In which part did I need a bunch of rejected Looney Tunes villains? That is all. Most of the stuff in Force don't add to the story and creates filer. Hey, most of the scenes that aren't related to the plot are just filer and a very boring one at that.
Last edited by Sansker; 2012-12-18 at 12:05.
|2012-12-18, 12:12
|Link #6680
Join Date: Jul 2010
True the Huckebein would be tricky, but this is Nanoha even by anime standards logic is stretched, but really do like the gangster squad idea it would fit them quite well.
Well you do have a point, I really shouldn't complain after the Negima ending rant I unleashed on a different board, it just seems to be turning into an oven of late.
|manga, nanoha force
|Thread Tools


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A surgical team at Niagara Falls Memorial Medical Center Monday performed Niagara County's first-ever da Vinci Single-Site cholecystectomy. The patient's gallbladder was removed through one tiny incision in the belly button or navel, making the procedure virtually scarless.
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Unlike traditional robotic surgeries requiring three to five small incisions, this new technology allows for a single incision in the belly button where instruments are placed and the diseased gallbladder is removed.
Most people who require gallbladder removal are candidates for the robotic, single-incision surgery. According to the American College of Surgeons, surgery is the recommended treatment for gallbladder pain from gallstones and non-functioning gallbladders.
More than 1 million people in the U.S. have their gallbladder removed each year. Most are performed with traditional laparoscopy using several incisions.
Niagara Falls Memorial Medical Center offers various types of robotic-assisted surgeries, including urological and obstetrical procedures. Memorial also offers a wide range of minimally invasive conventional laparoscopic surgeries.

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Governor News & Media
Utah job growth hits highest mark in 2014
Aug 15 2014
SALT LAKE CITY (August 15, 2014) ? Utah's economy is growing at its fastest rate so far in 2014, and the unemployment rate is holding steady, according to figures released by the Department of Workforce Services today. The state posted a strong job growth rate of 3.6 percent, adding 45,900 jobs over the past 12 months.
SALT LAKE CITY ? (August 7, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert has appointed Kate A. Toomey to fill a vacancy on the Utah Court of Appeals.
SALT LAKE CITY ? The Third District Judicial Nominating Commission has selected nominees for a vacancy on the district court. The vacancy results from the retirement of Judge Terry L. Christiansen, effective October 1, 2014. The Third Judicial District includes Salt Lake, Summit and Tooele counties.
SALT LAKE CITY (Aug. 5, 2014) ? Gov. Herbert is monitoring local incidents this morning in various parts of the state including the flooding of approximately 100 homes in Carbon County, flooding in Emery County and the landslide in North Salt Lake.
Utah leaders announce initiative to protect public safety, hold offenders accountable, control prison costs
Aug 05 2014
SALT LAKE CITY (August 5, 2014) ? Gov. Gary R. Herbert, Sen. Pres. Wayne Niederhauser, House Speaker Becky Lockhart, Chief Justice Matthew Durrant and Attorney General Sean Reyes have charged the Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice (CCJJ) with developing a comprehensive set of data-driven recommendations to increase public safety, while limiting expected growth of the state's prison budget.
SALT LAKE CITY (August 4, 2014) - Gov. Gary R. Herbert has nominated Senator John Valentine as chair of the Utah Tax Commission.
SALT LAKE CITY (August 1, 2014) - Gov. Gary R. Hebert has appointed Angela F. Micklos as chair of the Utah Board of Pardons and Parole. She has served as vice chair of the board for the past four years. She replaces outgoing chair Clark A. Harms.
SALT LAKE CITY (July, 31, 2014) - In accordance with Utah Code Annotated § 20A-14-105(1), Governor Gary R. Herbert has submitted the following names to the Lt. Governor?s Office for inclusion on the 2014 ballot as candidates for the State Board of Education.
OREM (July 30, 2014) -- Gov. Gary R. Herbert issued an executive order to strengthen communication between state agencies and Utah's eight sovereign tribes this morning at the 9th Annual Native American Summit, held at Utah Valley University.
SALT LAKE CITY - (July 29, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert has named Val Hale as director of the Governor's Office of Economic Development. Hale will assume his new role on Mon., Aug. 4, 2014.
Governor Gary Herbert calls on President to address unaccompanied minors crossing U.S.-Mexico border
Jul 22 2014
Salt Lake City (July 22, 2014) -- As the humanitarian crisis grows along the nation's southern border, Gov. Gary R. Herbert and five other governors expressed concern about the manner in which the Obama Administration is addressing the growing number of unaccompanied minors entering the United States.
Lt. Gov. Cox forms iVote Advisory Committee
Jul 22 2014
SALT LAKE CITY ? Lt. Gov. Spencer Cox is taking steps to keep Utah at the forefront of voting accessibility and convenience, announcing today the formation of the iVote Advisory Committee. The committee will consist of state legislators and county clerks, as well as technology and security specialists, and will explore the possibility of expanding electronic voting to more voters throughout the state.
SALT LAKE CITY ? (July 18, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert released the following statement regarding the decision from the U.S. Supreme Court:
Utah posts another strong jobs report
Jul 18 2014
SALT LAKE CITY - (July 18, 2014) Utah is tied for the second lowest unemployment rate in the nation, as the state's unemployment rate dropped to 3.5 percent posting strong job growth numbers, according to figures released by the Department of Workforce Services today.
Putting the best interest of our students first
Jul 17 2014
Governor Herbert takes actions to resolve divisive issues in education
SALT LAKE CITY ? (July 16, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert has named Dr. Laura Nelson as director of the Office of Energy Development. Nelson has both public and private energy sector experience and previously served as energy advisor to former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, Jr.
Utah named #1 again, and again, and again
Jul 16 2014
Utah identified as a symbol of economic growth that other states should use as a model
SALT LAKE CITY - (July 15, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert issued the following statement regarding the arrests of former Attorneys General Mark Shurtleff and John Swallow:
SALT LAKE CITY ? Three of Utah's top chefs put their talents to the test as they competed for a chance to represent the state in a national seafood cooking competition.
SALT LAKE CITY ? The Utah State Capitol Preservation Board (CPB) is pleased to announce the Sixth Annual Movie Under the Stars film lineup. Each summer, the CPB teams up with the Utah Film Commission to screen free movie on the southwest Capitol lawn. This year, the CPB is seeking volunteers to help with event setup and breakdown.
SALT LAKE CITY - Utah?s chief executive will play a prominent leadership role in a national organization.
Nominees Announced for Court of Appeals Vacancy
Jul 02 2014
SALT LAKE CITY ? The Appellate Judicial Nominating Commission has selected nominees for a vacancy on the Utah Court of Appeals. The vacancy results from the resignation of Judge Carolyn B. McHugh following her confirmation as a judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit.
July 3 is dedicated for Utah citizens to strengthen bonds with military veterans, those still serving
Salt Lake City ? (June 25, 2014) In response to the decision issued on the state's appeal to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, Gov. Gary R. Herbert released the following statement:
SALT LAKE CITY ? (June 20, 2014) Utah continues to solidify its position as the home of the nation's strongest and most diverse economy, as unemployment dropped to its lowest level since Nov. 2008. The state unemployment rate is down to 3.6 percent, down from 3.8 percent last month, according to figures released by the Dept. of Workforce Services today.
Utah has more Top 10 economic rankings than any other state WASHINGTON, D.C. ? At today's U.S. Chamber of Commerce Small Business Summit, Gov. Gary R. Herbert joined the Governor's Roundtable to discuss issues outlined in the Enterprising States 2014 report and why Utah is succeeding. In the annual report, Utah earned the most top 10 and top 25 rankings in the 33 categories measured in the study.
Thumbtack.com surveys small business owners to determine most friendly state SALT LAKE CITY - (June 10, 2014) For the second year in a row, Utah has emerged as the top state for business friendliness in the third annual Thumbtack.com Small Business Friendliness Survey.
SALT LAKE CITY ? Gov. Gary R. Herbert has appointed Brandon J. Maynard to the 1st District Court and Roger W. Griffin to the 4th District Court.
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. ? (June 9, 2014) This morning, Governor Gary R. Herbert joined U.S. Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell at the signing of a memorandum of understanding between members of the Western States Tourism Policy Council and U.S. Federal Agencies recognizing the economic importance of tourism on federal lands and waters.
Salt Lake City, UT ? The Appellate Judicial Nominating Commission has scheduled a meeting for June 13 at noon to review applications of individuals interested in filling a judicial vacancy resulting from the resignation of Judge Carolyn B. McHugh following her confirmation as a judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit.
Statement on Judge Kimball appeal decision
Jun 05 2014
From Marty Carpenter, Communication Director & Spokesman: "The governor has worked closely with the attorney general in analyzing all options. With so many cases stemming from the same legal questions, it is important that clarity and finality are provided by the highest courts."
Eccles to be a founding principal in private investment company
Governor names new chief of staff
May 27 2014
SALT LAKE CITY ? (May 27, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert has named Justin Harding as his new chief of staff. Harding has served several members of Utah's congressional delegation including his most recent position as chief of staff to Rep. Jason Chaffetz for the past five years. He will assume his new role in the Governor's Office effective June 16.
Gov. Gary R. Herbert has authorized the lowering of the Flag of the United States of America and the Flag of the State of Utah on Mon., May 26, 2014, in honor of Memorial Day
SALT LAKE CITY ? The First District Judicial Nominating Commission has selected nominees for a vacancy on the district court. The vacancy results from the retirement of Judge Ben H. Hadfield, effective August 15, 2014. The First Judicial District includes Cache, Rich and Box Elder counties.
SALT LAKE CITY ? (May 16, 2014) Utah's economy continues to outpace the nation as more and more Utahns are finding jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to 3.8 percent, and our economy grew at 2.9 percent.
SALT LAKE CITY ? (May 14, 2014) Gov. Gary R. Herbert has authorized the lowering of the Flag of the United States of America and the Flag of the State of Utah on Thursday, May 15, 2014 in recognition of Peace Officers Memorial Day.
SALT LAKE CITY ? (May 9, 2014) Utah Gov. Gary R. Herbert has issued the following statement about the situation in San Juan County with Recapture Canyon:
SALT LAKE CITY - Today, Gov. Gary R. Herbert appointed Paul Dame and Michael Leavitt to the 5th District Juvenile Court. The 5th District includes: Beaver, Iron and Washington Counties.
SALT LAKE CITY ? (May 5, 2014) Utah Gov. Gary R. Herbert has declared May 5-9, 2014, as Public Service Recognition Week in Utah. The declaration honors public employees in all levels of government, public education system, vocational training and higher education.
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By Jay Jaffa, Goal.com
Chelsea's defense of its European crown was left in tatters in Turin on Tuesday night as Juventus put the Blues to the sword in a convincing 3-0 win.
A first half goal from Fabio Quagliarella was doubled by Arturo Vidal's second-half strike, before Sebastian Giovinco rounded off the win, ensuring Juventus leapfrogs Roberto Di Matteo's team and leaves the holder one game away from elimination.
The Blues' chances were almost dealt a terrible blow after just four minutes as Mirko Vucinic's clever back post cross required Petr Cech to pull off a stunning point blank save from Stephan Lichtsteiner to turn it onto the post and to safety.
The giant Chelsea shot stopper, who has rediscovered the form that made him one of the most sought after goalkeepers on the planet, was at the heart of the action, parrying well from Claudio Marchisio's first time effort on 15 minutes.
At the other end Oscar carried Chelsea's threat as he burst from the left flank to the middle, taking two Juventus defenders out of the game as he glided horizontally across the box. His final ball released Eden Hazard, who seemed certain to score until Gianluigi Buffon's trailing leg diverted his low shot just wide. It was to prove Chelsea's best chance of the match.
As the game settled, it wasn't until the 35th minute that Chelsea mustered another clear cut chance. Ramires burst through a couple of challenges in midfield and released Oscar into the box. The Brazilian forward was only stopped by Leandro Bonucci's well-timed tackle as he cut back onto his right foot.
Then, minutes later, the deadlock was broken and it certainly had a touch of fortune about it as Fabio Quagliarella diverted Pirlo's tame 25-yard effort past a hapless, sprawling Cech to give Juventus the lead. It was the Italian striker's sixth goal in six games.
And it was nearly 2-0 immediately afterwards but for Ashley Cole's alert goal line clearance as Lichtsteiner headed past Cech.
As if prompted by the threat on its own goal, Chelsea responded. Hazard outpaced the Juve defense and squared to an unmarked Juan Mata, but by the time he had controlled the ball, Buffon had smothered him.
Roberto Di Matteo sent the same XI back onto the pitch for the second half, ensuring the benched Fernando Torres continued to look on, but it was his defensive line that came under question as Gary Cahill appeared to tug the problematic Vucinic to the ground. Fortunately for the visitors Cuneyt Cakir chose to wave play on rather than signal for a penalty.
The Juventus frontline continued to trouble Chelsea and Quagliarella had two fine chances to double his haul for the evening, but he was left ruing the determined goalkeeping of Cech.
But as Di Matteo chased the game, introducing Victor Moses for Cesar Azpilicueta, Juventus struck again. Vucinic's pass allowed Kwadwo Asamoah to drive into the box and his cutback fell for Vidal, who saw his 20-yard shot deflect off of Ramires' heel and through the legs of Cech. It was the 20th goal the Stamford Bridge outfit had conceded in 10 games.
Chelsea continued to chase, finally introducing Torres for John Obi Mikel but it was the hosts who looked more dangerous, Vucinic criminally knocking a shot from 10 yards out over the crossbar. But as the clock rolled into injury time, substitute Giovinco prodded past Cech to cap a fine night in the Juventus Stadium.
Follow @GoalUSA on Twitter.


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AICPA Continues Push to Reduce Amount of Data Small Businesses Must Turn Over to IRS during an Examination
October 13, 2011
At a meeting it hosted in September, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants encouraged senior Internal Revenue Service officials and accounting software developers to find ways to minimize the amount of data small businesses must turn over to the IRS when the business' accounting software file is requested as part of an IRS examination.
The meeting was the latest action by the AICPA to protect the electronic records of small businesses that could contain private information about clients that is unrelated to the tax return under examination.
Patricia Thompson, the chair of the AICPA Tax Executive Committee, said in a March 29 letter to Chris Wagner, commissioner of the IRS Small Business/Self-Employed Division, "Once the software file of a small business taxpayer is requested by the IRS for examination purposes, the AICPA believes the taxpayer should have the right to 'redact' the software file and turn over only the data that is responsive and relevant to the examination."
The IRS said in an April 20 letter to the AICPA that it wants to see the original data file because it would help identify whether there have been deleted or altered entries to the file.
As a result of the dialogue between the AICPA and the IRS about the need for clearer guidance about the program, the IRS recently released frequently-asked questions about the examination program. In addition, the IRS released guidance to its field examiners.
At the September meeting, the AICPA emphasized the need for the software developers to consider making modifications to their accounting software products to make it easier for small businesses to provide only data that is pertinent to an IRS examination.
The AICPA will continue to work with the IRS and software developers in order to mitigate the amount of data small business taxpayers must turn over to IRS during an IRS examination.
Read more about the IRS examination program and the AICPA's efforts in the July Journal of Accountancy article.


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Find the top rated geocaching trails in Fern Creek, whether you're looking for an easy short geocaching trail or a long geocaching trail, you'll find what you're looking for. Click on a geocaching trail below to find trail descriptions, trail maps, photos, and reviews.
|Trail Image
|Trail Name
The Big Four Bridge links Louisville, Kentucky, and Jeffersonville, Indiana, over the majestic Ohio River, once described by Thomas Jefferson as "the most beautiful river on Earth." The bridge's...
|0.5 mi
The Clarksville Heritage Trail links the residential heart of Clarksville, Indiana, with its growing trail system and two local parks. The trail, which occupies an abandoned Dinky Line railroad...
|1.6 mi
The Clarksville Levee Trail, as its name suggests, winds through Clarksville, Indiana, on top of the levees designed to hold back the Ohio River in the event of rising water. Trail users might want to...
|2.7 mi
The Heritage Trail of Madison connects the downtown of Madison, Indiana, with its steep hilltop section. Begin your journey at the intersection of Vaughn Drive and Vernon Street along the Ohio River....
|2 mi
|Asphalt, Dirt, Grass, Gravel
In the 1890s, pre-eminent landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted Sr. envisioned large community parks connected to the neighborhoods of Louisville via "ribbons of green." His tree-lined parkways...
|48 mi
|Asphalt, Concrete
We stopped off for a 10 mile out and back (20 miles total) starting from Beckely Creek Park and heading south/southwest. The trail was a nice wide concrete trail that follows the creek and winds it's way through a lot of different areas (housing, farm, parks,...). Given the many average reviews on this trail we almost skipped it, but are really happy we stopped. It was a cooler late October day on our way back to Minnesota and it turned out to be our last ride of the year. Not sure what the trail is like further along but this section is world class and worth a ride.
This is a scenic trail through 4 beautiful parks and a 5 mile connecting section (all off road) all along Floyd's Fork in easy reach of Louisville Metro. The trail is nicely paved the entire way with access to water fountains, restrooms, and bicycle repair stations strategically placed along the way. The trail provides a nice mix of terrain ranging from flat to rolling to hilly. This is a family friendly destination with canoe / kayak and bike rentals along with shuttle service in the park. There are even play and spraygrounds in a couple of the parks.
it has potential, under heavy construction as i write this; some new construction, some resurfacing the existing. interesting that the old part has been around long enough to need resurfacing before these new parts have been laid. the equipment on this sunday was parked trailside. on the west side of town beyond milemarker 14-25 in either direction, the trail presently doesn't appear to be rideable or perhaps even existing.
Entered this trail at Shelbyville road and completed a 30 mile round trip. The hills can be a real challenge if you are not accustomed to them. The surface is great and is a mix of asphalt and concrete. If you ride a recumbent where you sit back so far that you use a neck rest the expansion joints in the concrete can become annoying. The trail is very scenic with plenty of trail access points and several restrooms available along the way. When the whole Louisville Loop Trail is completed and circles all of Louisville (100 miles of trails I believe) this will be a real jewel for Kentucky.
We usually start this trail parked at the State Hospital N Road. We loop around the grounds and then head down the Heritage Trail to the bottom of the hill. You can choose to come up the same way or walk the railroad tracks that also lead to the top of the hill with a diversion onto Hwy 7 for a few feet.
We always see deer, groundhogs, skunks, and all kinds of birds. This is a beautiful trail that we know is worth the drive to get to.
Not your typical trail, as it spans the mighty Ohio River. Beautiful view and amazing River breeze make this trail very unique. Riding the ramp up onto the bridge is a challenge, but well worth the effort. Love, love this trail!!
I would rate this trail as easy and very beautiful. It is flat for the most part. Beautiful scenery along the mighty Ohio River. For those of you with little ones, please note it is a levee...ensure your children are capable of maintaining focus to keep their bicycle on an approximate 5' wide trail. There are a few steep points off of the edge of the trail.
I am so impressed that both states and the communities put up the money to turn an eyesore into an incredible asset. Connects to excellent trails on both IN and KY sides, turning it into a unique experience. Plenty of restaurants on both sides of the river. Beautifully lit at night as well.
Great easy riding trail with wonderful food at Mike Linings of Louisville on one end and Pearls Yogurt of Jeffersontown IN on the other. Lots of interesting sights to see in between. Got in 44 miles in one day which is good for us.
This ties in the Big Four Bridge trail and the Louisville river trail The levee trail starts near the falls of the Ohio state park which is interesting and the trail is only lightly used as it follows the river. I always visit Jeffersonville restaurants then cross the Big four bridge for more trails on the Ky side
Biking across the Ohio river is fun in itself but the Louisville river trail ties in on the Kentucky side and the Levee trail on the Indiana side. There are plenty of things to do and places to visit. I recommend a trip to one of the 2 Brewery's on the Indian side. Highly recommend a visit here
The trail was clean and clear the day I took it. The views are nice and stopped at the riverboats to talk with some other bikers. I ended up going just short of Shawnee park as the trail had a detour.
If you do this, you most certainly need to link in the Big four bridge which allows bikes and spans the Ohio river. Jeffersonville Indiana has some great places to eat and yet another trail , the "Levee" trail can be caught there
When you include the nearby trails this can become an afternoon affair
TrailLink is a free service provided by Rails-to-Trails Conservancy (a non-profit) and we need your support!


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This information will let you know what to expect before and after your myelogram. Please share this information with your family. Talk with your doctor or nurse if you have any questions.
Many drugs thin the blood. They could cause you to bleed too much during the myelogram. Some of these drugs are aspirin, ibuprofen, Advil, Motrin, Coumadin, Heparin, Fragmin, and Lovenox — but there are others. Ask your doctor which drugs are OK and which drugs you should stop taking. Ask your doctor when you should stop taking these drugs, and when you can start taking them again.
Before your myelogram, a Radiology Department staff member may call you to give you instructions. The staff member will ask you about your medical history including possible pregnancy. He or she will ask about any allergies to medications that you may have. You will be given instructions about what to eat and what not to eat on the morning of your myelogram. It is helpful to drink lots of fluid before your procedure.
You will not be able to drive for 24 hours after the myelogram, so a family member or friend must drive you home after the procedure. Make plans so that someone can do this.
When it is time for your myelogram, you will be asked to lie on an x-ray table. You probably will lie on your stomach. You may receive the dye injection in your lower back or the side of your neck. The injection site will be numbed with a special medicine.
After the injection, the radiologist or a radiology technologist will tilt the x-ray table into various positions. Then x-rays will be taken to study the flow of the dye as it outlines your spinal column.
Immediately after the myelogram, another imaging exam called a CT (computed tomography) scan will be taken of your back or neck to help the radiologist interpret the myelogram.
After your myelogram and CT scan, you will rest for a while before you go home. You will rest with the head of the bed elevated, and your nurse will ask you to drink plenty of liquids. You may be allowed out of the bed to use the bathroom.
Tell your nurse if you feel sick to your stomach or have a headache after the myelogram. Your nurse can give you medicine to help you feel better.
Your doctor will call you with the results of your myelogram. Ask your doctor when to expect this call.
You may go back to your normal diet at home. To help you recover, please follow these instructions:
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For help in finding a doctor or health service that suits your needs, call the UPMC Referral Service at 412-647-UPMC (8762) or 1-800-533-UPMC (8762). Select option 1.
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Learn more about how Ohio bioscience researchers are successfully applying high-performance computing to their research.
Advanced simulations are integrating increasingly larger data sets. It is essential to explore the use of high performance computing to assure tractable methods of investigating computational data. Because these data combine information from multiple sources, it is important to research advanced interface technology and develop more intuitive methods for interaction with large and complex multimodal data sets. Advanced intuitive interfaces are needed to integrate these vast amounts of multisensory data into a single coherent simulation. These interfaces will facilitate exploration and interaction and will increase understanding of complex data.
The Virtual Environments and Simulation Group involves an interdisciplinary group comprising research scientists, computer scientists, and clinicians. The goals of the group include applying high performance computing to biomedicine and applying advanced interface technology for use in virtual exploration of complex computational data.
The interdisciplinary group has been working together for nearly two decades. Current efforts include integrating visual, speech and haptic interfaces for scientific visualization, surgical preplanning, resident training, and telemedicine. Following is an overview of some of the biomedical research projects under investigation at OSC.
Expanding Geoscience Diversity Through Simulated Field Environments for Students with Physical Disabilities (Track 1)
- Development and Evaluation of Immersive Simulations for use in Response Training for Outbreaks of Infectious Disease
- The Integration of Simulation Technologies in Veterinary Medicine for Anatomical Review and Procedural Training
- HHS-OBOR: Cluster Computing Capacity
- Simulating Skin Biopsies
- Evaluating Elicited Anxiety in a Simulated Environment
- Center for Grid-enabled Medical Imaging Analysis
- Validation/Dissemination of Virtual Temporal Bone Dissection
- Virtual Simulation of Temporal Bone Dissection
- Using Virtual Simulations for Evaluating Safe Practice for Tractor Certification
- An Image-Based Approach to Scientific Visualization
- Intuitive Imaging and Visualization for Super High Field Magnetic Resonance
- Interactive Medical Data on Demand: A High-Performance Image-Based Warehouse Across Heterogeneous Environments
- Human Brain Through Multimodel Imaging
- Wheelchair User Proficiency Through Virtual Simulation
- Visualization of the Heart Through 3-D Reconstruction
- Virtual Simulation of Regional Anesthesia
- Visualization of Skull Base and Cranial Tumors
- Endoscopic Sinus Surgery
- Biomedical Informatics Synthesis Platform
- The Biomedical Structural, Functional, and Molecular Imaging Enterprise
- State of the Art Infrastructure to Support Ohio research in Advanced Internet Utilization, Simulation, and Telerobotics
Software Applications and Codes Meeting for the Ohio Supercomputer Center Bioscience Cluster Expansion - April 4, 2008
The Ohio Supercomputer Center is proposing to acquire a major expansion to the recently installed IBM Cluster 1350. Biomedical/bioscience researchers were invited to participate in the meeting and give feedback related to their computational needs and requirements, particularly with respect to software applications and codes that they are using or plan to use in the near future.
Contact the Biomedical Sciences and Visualization Research Group


text: The Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS) is dedicated to protecting human life and property through Arizona, especially on the state's expansive highway system. Below you will find safety tips and other information that can empower you to better protect your own safety and the safety of others while on the road and in the community. The information below can also help you become a more informed citizen about critical issues that affect Arizona and the safety of its residents.