text:
Tuesday, January 12, 2010
Comic 687: Out To Sea
I think at its heart there is a funny idea in the center of this comic, something centering around a guy who is totally convinced that "England will drift out to sea." Perhaps in part because it is an island already, and it could move a few inches every century without consequence (maybe it is? I don't remember, the examples they always give are India or Mount Everest or something). And I think using italics for it was good - you probably know that I am a fan of judicously placed italics (but I will not work an example in here because i am just that classy).
Still, on the whole, the comic doesn't add up for me. Perhaps if he had shown some of his work in the equation you wouldn't need comments like "I'm interested in knowing if the math works out." As it is, you have to take a seemingly random equation on faith, or do the work yourself. I think it's funnier to know that Randall actually put in effort to finding random data that ends up equalling pi, but beyond his say so you wouldn't know it just from reading the comic.
Then, of course, he hits you with way too much info in panel two - the jump from "here's an equation" to "it must be a fundamental law" is important to the comic (otherwise he couldn't draw the conclusions he does later) but it's thrown in with little emphasis. In part, that's because the students ignore it, and jump into asking questions about implications, where you are already on your next set of stupid-people assumptions. When Randall has pacing problems, it's usually taking too long with what he's writing; today, I think he speeds through his content too fast.
Also, in the "realistic dialog SMACKDOWN" report, I don't think anyone would say "but what if they build a better prius?" to that question. "better" would be a Prius with laser beams that could shoot at crappy drivers. "More fuel efficient" is the natural way to ask why he is asking.
And of course, the alt-text is a gigantic let down. Perhaps if he had made some sort of hyperbolic "earth's pressure rising and killing us all!" joke as the main joke, and then the thing about England drifting off to sea as the alt-text, it could have worked better.
other news:
Even though Aloria sucks at blogging, I let her do it because she is very rich. In fact, Rich Uncle Aloria is the only person who responded to my recent demand for presents, sending me a Dinosaur Comics shirt along with a note that I smell like the inside of an old lady's handbag. This is true, there was actually such a note in the package. thanks, aloria? Anyway to keep things creepy she also demanded a photo of me wearing the shirt, and so I have uploaded one here:
also the new motto of this blog is "cool shirt, lame pants!"
Still seeing how ads on the site are working out, still looking for feedback. If anyone's worked with Google AdSense before and wants to give me any advice, that would be awesome. If anyone is super bored and wants to double check that I am not violating their policies that too would be great. In a related note, in order to appease the gods of Google, I CAN NO LONGER SELL FIREARMS THROUGH THIS SITE. THIS SITE IS NOW ONLY ABOUT WEBCOMICS, NOT A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN BUY FIREARMS. we all have to make sacrifices.
106 comments:
- CeladonJanuary 12, 2010 at 7:47 PM
Being somewhat familiar with Dirac's large numbers hypothesis, I found this a bit humorous. I don't know if he was thinking of it but to me it seems it is one of those "if you are not familiar with the subject matter too bad" jokes.ReplyDelete
" Rich Uncle Aloria is the only person who responded to my recent demand for presents"ReplyDelete
What the heck man? I offered too, but you said that you were uncomfortable giving out your address!
I think--though it is worth noting that I was not the first to say so--that this comment pokes fun at the so-called "God Equation."ReplyDelete
In this context, it is more a humorous rebuttal than a joke in itself, but the fact that it works out--units included--makes it immensely enjoyable.
Wow, Randall has officially given up at being funny with the latest comic. He's just listing things now.ReplyDelete
There's no ink in this comic!!ReplyDelete
The latest comic is like the horrible child of meta-humour and graph jokes. I must admit that I smiled since I am a sucker for meta-humour and graph jokes. The alt-text seems to try too hard though.ReplyDelete
Well played, Lint of Death.
I was amused, but then I'm easily amused by self-description ever since learning about Russell's Paradox a few years ago.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 12, 2010 at 9:59 PM
I am constantly amazed by how easily amused people are.ReplyDelete
This post is two sentences long.
My WORD meta is so overrated.ReplyDelete
Granted, that's a personal prejudice of mine. I realize it can be done well, and I've seen it done well, but Randy does absolutely nothing interesting or new with it here. NOTHING. It seems like meta for meta's sake, and it just comes off as trite. Calling it meta might even be giving him too much credit.
Wasn't amused in the slightest. I frowned in the first panel and the frown increased with each new panel, until by the end of the alt-text my face was one giant frown. Yeah, yeah, I see what you're doing and I'm not impressed.
I like the new one, it's like "Composition of Pac-Man", but even more self-referential.ReplyDelete
Speaking of self-referential, I decided to make this comic, which would totally be eaten up by xkcd fanboys if Randall made it. But, I was first! BTW, you may notice I'm making a gallery of my xkcd edits. There's not much yet, but I'm currently trying to master the GIMP image editor, so there's bound to be more of them.
This comic was awful. It's the kind of hackwork that would stop David Anez in his tracks, prompting him to go "I say, aren't you going rather heavy on the self-reference and light on the content?"ReplyDelete
Holy shit 688 sucks.ReplyDelete
From the forums:
"This is one of his (many) strips where it strikes me that the XKCD description ought to actually be 'The most intelligent thing you'll read today.'"
I think he accidentally typed "most" instead of "least."
Also Randall didn't label the damn axes on the third panel. Ugh this comic is just awful every way you look at it.
I actually really like metahumor if it's well done. Randall did not do it well in this comic. In fact this is probably the second to third worst example of metahumor I have ever seen.
And people actually think this is funny? HOW? Gee, if this is funny, I can't wait for Randall to post a comic that just has a sentence that says "This comic is not a comic but a sentence explaining that it is not a comic." IT WOULD BE THE PARAGON OF HILARITY APPARENTLY.
"It's the kind of hackwork that would stop David Anez in his tracks"ReplyDelete
David Anez? From Bob and George?
I think the implication was, "If you ONLY read xkcd, it will be the most intelligent thing you read today."
688 was actually a relatively clever instance of self-reference. A potentially good addition to Randall Munroe's Picture Blog of Mildly Interesting Ideas.ReplyDelete
Except for the title text. The god damned title text.
Sentence 1: Insult the reader by explaining the comic. Fuck you too, Randall.
Sentence 2: Rephrase your explanation in terms of graph theory. Not that it adds anything, but of course if people understand graph theory they'll go apeshit for the comic now, right? Right? A tried Randall trope--"moderately obscure and therefore 'funny'".
Sentence 3: Express the idea behind the comic yet again. Take any cleverness used in constructing the comic version entirely out of the picture.
Insults, arrogance, repetition, cliquism/elitism, and a profound misunderstanding of how to write. Yep, that's xkcd for you.
- AnonymousJanuary 12, 2010 at 11:40 PM
It's arrogant that the alt-text follows the theme of the entire comic by explaining what the comic does, AKA "Self-Description"? Alrighty then...ReplyDelete
Anyways, I think the first example is lame as hell, probably because I've seen so many funny pie chart jokes on the internet already and it's not clever at all. The second graph is pretty funny, and third is meh.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 12:09 AM
If England is an island, Canada is a continent.ReplyDelete
If that was the intent of the explanation it was misguided. The title-text isn't part of the comic proper, so any description of the comic alone wouldn't be self-reference.
To be self-reference it'd have to include mention of the title-text itself. Otherwise you just have external reference, which is in no way interesting.
So it was either arrogant or dumb. Take your pick.
I'm grateful to Randall for reminding me that I haven't checked in on graphjam.com in a while. As best I can tell that was the one and only purpose of this "comic".ReplyDelete
this is a good example of randy making a (for lack of a better word) naive joke and having his audience responding in kind.ReplyDelete
what i mean is, if you're a fan of comedy and you're intelligent and responsive and aware regards humour, you've seen this done a million times, and it's not really funny anymore.
but if you're not, then this is the bomb wow excellent work randy hor hor.
i guess it ties in with taste? the more experience you have and the more jokes you've heard, the more refined your taste in comedy becomes?
/comedy snobbery
i'm referring to the graph comic, btw. 688. not the england floating out to sea one above.ReplyDelete
I could count the number of times I've seen this joke on one handReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 3:42 AM
Carl, your definition of 'realistic dialogue' seems bizarre to me. Yes, what the character means is 'more fuel efficient Prius', but what a normal person will say 9 times out of 10 in that situation is 'better'.ReplyDelete
This is one of the many points on which Randall simply can't win any more. If the dialogue is clunky, you criticise it for not being realistic as it doesn't flow. If the dialogue is natural, you criticise it for not being realistic because it's not accurate enough, or because real speech isn't appropriate for a comic. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you'd notice if xkcd returned to its former glory (as does the fact that two of my favourite comics are on your most hated list).
Actually agreed with the cuddlefish above me here. Although, my being an XKCD fan compared to the people here means I'll agree with anybody who intelligently says something nice about the comic.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 4:42 AM
"It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you'd notice if xkcd returned to its former glory (as does the fact that two of my favorite comics are on your most hated list)."ReplyDelete
Now I'm sure this isn't what you meant, but because you said they were your favorite comics without actually explaining why they're good, it sounds like you're saying here that Carl is unable to be objective because he disagrees with you.
Funny that so many comments here are about today's comic (688) when this post is about monday's (687).ReplyDelete
And by "funny" I mean kind of stupid.
Flint that is pretty standard.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 5:22 AM
Another funny thing: this post was made last night, but the comic is about put up on Monday. Do you think these two things are related?ReplyDelete
Rob yeah I guess i'm still pretty new here.ReplyDelete
Oh well. :P
Yeah, Carl is Mind-Numbingly Lazy and only gets the posts up a little bit before the new comic goes live. If there isn't any good discussion to be had based on the blog post or the comic in question we tend to just discuss the next comic.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 6:16 AM
This is another joke that SMBC's done before... two and a half years ago.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 6:53 AM
OK, that's fair. I should say why I like the ones Carl doesn't. I think the 'stalker friend' one is absolute genius. I don't share Carl's apparent belief that Randall thinks this behaviour is desirable or good and as a result I think it's a pretty damning and very witty criticism. And the 'guy with two hats' one is also a personal favourite. I understand the criticisms, but for me the art was clear enough that I got what was going on straight away (which seemed to be one of the biggest problems Carl had with it). Aside from that, what I liked about it was that it did something xkcd really struggles to do - made a character joke. I thought it was snappy and well done. Now I fully appreciate that that is just my opinion, and a lot of people probably thought both of those were just awful. But it seems to me that this site has now got everyone into the habit of overanalysing every single thing xkcd puts out, to the point where a lot of people simply can't enjoy it any more. I'm going to put it out there, xkcd was never THAT good, and it's not THAT bad now. I think if you took comics of the same quality as the supposed 'golden age' or whatever you crazy kids are calling it and released them now, they just wouldn't stand up to the level of scrutiny that Carl puts in. Artwork, dialogue, pacing, layout, characters (or lack thereof), Carl's belief that everything in xkcd is at least three-quarters autobiographical - there's always something to complain about, and that one thing seems to always be enough to ruin it completely, for ever.ReplyDelete
Just my two pence. I'm not the biggest fan of xkcd, but it's a mildly amusing way to pass a minute three times a week, and I think some people here can't see the wood for the trees.
The biggest problem with that theory is that Carl, and myself, and a lot of other people, used to be big fans of XKCD. You'd need to come up with a reason that we spontaneously started disliking something we used to be big fans of. You'd also need to explain why, looking back on a lot of the old comics, we still like them and think they are great.ReplyDelete
- Graph McChartmanJanuary 13, 2010 at 7:12 AM
Wow, I've known that XKCD sucks for a while now, I've been reading xkcdsucks for only a little less but what Mr. Munroe did this one leaves me with no choice but to renounce this comic publicly.ReplyDelete
XKCD has been bad but it's never been as bland. This looks like something that would come out of a particularly unfunny 4chan thread. I know I've stayed though the Secretary series, the awful Firefly fanfic and the cartoon vagina event. However, that's it. I give up on you, Randy. I give up!
P.S.: The funny this is, it might be xkcdsucks that has kept me reading XKCD for so long.
The reason is obviously that we refuse to subject the old comics to the same critical analysis we torture Randall with these days. DUH.ReplyDelete
I'll agree that XKCD was never some paragon of comickry, although it had some pretty funny comics. But it's definitely incredibly awful now.
Also, the word "overanalyze" is mind poison, and I automatically loathe anyone who uses it.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 8:00 AM
Overanalyze? Seriously? That gets you upset? I would have thought it's pretty inoffensive, given that it describes an actual phenomenon. Not like my own personal bugbear 'phallocentric'.ReplyDelete
So do you genuinely go back and look at old xkcd with the same eye as you do new ones (with not even a hint of 'ah, those were the days')? And if so are the old ones genuinely better in terms of pacing, etc? I go back and I see a lot of stuff like the binary heart, suggesting to me the fall from grace can't have been that dramatic...
Yes; there are a lot of old XKCDs that I like less now, looking back on them. And a lot which hold up to new analysis.ReplyDelete
I am awesome. That is all.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 9:03 AM
A few of my favorites from the XKCD forums:ReplyDelete
"I wonder how accurate the other two panels are. Knowing Randall they're probably very accurate."
"This is my first post. I'm a music and liberal-arts major, and despite my professed hatred of math, I LOVE the mathematical mind of xkcd - it's my secret solace. I also love the fact that about one out of every two xkcd comics require me to look something up before I get the joke."
"However, we're not `normal', we read xkcd."
Hah! "we're not 'normal', we read xkcd!"ReplyDelete
I love how xkcd simultaneously prides itself on being so quirky and different while bitching about how society doesn't understand. I ran into this a lot in college-- dudes talking about how much better they are because they can build robots and do multivariable calculus, then turning around and pitching an emo pity party because "the world doesn't get people like me."
you know, it's not a bad thing for something to make you go check something out if you want to fully understand, however maybe the reason the "mathematical mind of xkcd" is that person's "secret solace" is because the math isn't that hard to get, sure Randall never shows his work or anything, but think about it, how many times in the 'good ol' days' of xkcd was the math overly difficult to figure out?ReplyDelete
On a few other notes, the xkcdexplained for this post's comic (687) gave an example of how the comic could be improved slightly, and by that I mean I would have preferred a punchline like "All spheres and circles in the universe would simultaneously grow proportionally, which leads us to the subject of Universal Expansion…" simply because it's not necessarily trying to make a lame joke like what we got with England drifting out to sea and instead is simply just making a natural transition to another topic.
A note about 688, kinda bland and made me sort of mad, which sucks because it means I end up putting too much energy into a comic that does not deserve that kind energy directed towards it. I've never had a good experience with self-referencing humour, and if I did then I would've remembered it simply to use it as a comparison of "the right way to do it and the wrong way to do it"
I always admire a subculture which can actually just say "yeah, fuck the world" and not turn around and complain about how the world doesn't like them. Nerds suck at this.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 10:08 AM
In response to the post about 687, actually a good amount of private high schools will let you teach with just a college degree (and somebody pointed out before that dimensional analysis could come up in HS). 687 was better than average, and I also approved of the italics use.ReplyDelete
688, on the other hand, just wowed me. I was moved to tears at how utterly bad this comic is. Indeed I cannot recall having been exposed to something so bad in my lifetime. It will be the height of disappointment if we don't get to see a good post tearing this one apart.
Overanalyze? Seriously? That gets you upset? I would have thought it's pretty inoffensive, given that it describes an actual phenomenon. Not like my own personal bugbear 'phallocentric'.ReplyDelete
It's an offensive term. It suggests that, for any given topic, there's some appropriate level of analysis, and then someone's exceeded that level. It's nearly anti-intellectual, in the implicit message that analysis is a bad thing, destructive and pointless. Clearly you're not supposed to think about XKCD, you're just supposed to read it and go "Holy crap I recognize that math!!!!!!!!" and buy Randall's shirts.
The weaksauce ass-covering of "Dude when you go looking for flaws you're GUARANTEED to find them" is...similarly dumb. Especially when you consider its universality--any criticism that mentions flaws must be invalid, because the critic was looking for them. A true appraisal would be a careful cataloguing of XKCD's successes, and the only mention of its flaws would be for the sake of balance.
I learned dimensional analysis my sophomore year of High School. It was one of the very first things my Chemistry teacher taught us.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 10:15 AM
A mistake both Carl and Randall have made:ReplyDelete
"England" is not an island - it's a country. The island is called Great Britain.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 10:38 AM
Clearly it isn't a mistake, since Randall cannot make mistakes ever. He meant England will drift out, possibly shoving/going through Scotland and Wales. Naturally.ReplyDelete
Timofei, I thought that this image was hilarious and I don't think I'd seen it before. However, a lot of credit has to go to Penny Arcade for their always hilarious drawing. Good job though.ReplyDelete
Here where I live (america) we don't usually distinguish much between "england" and "britain" though I know that the former is a subset of the latter. I can't, however, keep straight the difference between "Great Britain" and "The United Kingdom" though I think "Great Britain" is larger? In any case, I gave Randall a pass on that one for a few reasons: The aforementioned interchangeability of the words (here, at least), the fact that his equation uses "english channel" so to refer to "england" later is more consistent, and the fact that I think "England will drift out to sea!" is funnier than "Great Britain will drift out to sea!"
I believe that that sentence is supposed to be idiotic. The character is, anyway.ReplyDelete
Possibly intentional mistake. I dunno.
Carl: Just "Britain" would do.
United Kingdom = Britain + N. Ireland
Once I started reading 688, I got shocked, because I thought the first panel was pretty much EXACTLY the same joke as the "Portion of this pie chart that looks like Pac Man" pic, but only later I realised it's not. Thing is, I like the IDEA of the strip, because it takes the "self-description" thing to a completely ludicrous, pointless extreme; it's nerdist taken to its absolute absurdity, and trust me, I like absurdity. There's one problem, though:ReplyDelete
Neither Randall nor his fans seem to see the absurdity, and they see such an empty, pointless demonstration of "intelligence" (notice the quotes) as something laudable. This strip, if done by somebody else other than Randall, would almost certainly be a satire, a downright mockery of nerd culture; being an xkcd strip, though, it's mere ego masturbation. It's a shame: if this strip were indeed sarcastic and purposefully pointless, I'd love it.
Edit: Kingsto. Kingsto? Goddamn captcha algorithm doesn't even know Jamaican cities properly!
- Way WalkerJanuary 13, 2010 at 11:31 AM
What's so bad about "Then England will drift out to sea"? The worst is that it's less precise than saying Great Britain would drift out to sea. The whole of Great Britain drifting out to sea is the most likely way that England would drift out to sea. Also, if one watched from France, one would see England drifting out to sea.ReplyDelete
Fernie, that's actually why I think 688 isn't that bad. The gag in the Pac-Man graph is that the proportions in the graph are entirely arbitrary, and the first panel sets up that expectation. The later panels then subvert this.
Rob, at first I thought those subcultures must be few and far between because I couldn't think of many examples, but then I realized that's the point. They're not the sort who cares if the world knows they don't care about whether the world knows they don't care about the world. Do you think the nerds who are into self-referential humor whine as a form of self-referential self-parody?
I always admire a subculture which can actually just say "yeah, fuck the world" and not turn around and complain about how the world doesn't like them. Nerds suck at this.ReplyDelete
I think this happens more in gender-imbalanced nerd communities, where the nerds actually need something (dates from girls) from the non-nerd community. Groups of nerds which have relatively equal numbers of men and women, in my experience, don't have problems with acceptance from the outside world.
"Rob, at first I thought those subcultures must be few and far between because I couldn't think of many examples, but then I realized that's the point. They're not the sort who cares if the world knows they don't care about whether the world knows they don't care about the world. Do you think the nerds who are into self-referential humor whine as a form of self-referential self-parody?"ReplyDelete
There are some people who do, but nerds by and large, not so much.
A lot of the alt subcultures, by the way (and I use 'alt' here super broadly to incorporate goth, punk, hipster, etc), are usually pretty decent at saying "fuck the world" without subsequently turning and whining that the world doesn't like them. Not universally, but for the most part being liked by the world is not on their agenda.
"Groups of nerds which have relatively equal numbers of men and women, in my experience, don't have problems with acceptance from the outside world."
Possibly, but those groups of nerds also tend to not have a very "fuck the world" attitude, in my experience. I might be wrong here.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 11:47 AM
@ FemalethothReplyDelete
So you don't think there's an appropriate level of analysis? I have to say I disagree. That's not to say I'm against analysis - far from it. But nevertheless there comes a point when you have analyzed something as much as is useful, and further analysis will only have you going round in circles. Or, to look at another example, in literary criticism I think people often read far more between the lines than is actually there (IMHO people are especially bad at doing this to Shakespeare). I think the word overanalysis is appropriate a lot of the time. I'm not saying you shouldn't critique RM's comics, or his technique, just that the analysis seems to have overtaken some people such that they analyse the comic before they read it, when in my view it should be the other way around, or read things into the comic (like RM's motives and aspects of his personal life) that simply aren't there.
I also (surprisingly) disagree with your second point. Or, more accurately, I think you missed mine. Yes, when you go looking for flaws you're going to find them, because everything has flaws. But I never suggested that's a reason not to look, nor that it makes any criticism invalid. I'm trying to say that the extent to which you guys now look for flaws, and more importantly the primacy you give that activity, mean that it's much more difficult for any of you to like an xkcd than it was before this website started.
Just as an example, look at comic 42, which Carl says is one of his top 10 from 1-200 (when xkcd was good). I honestly believe that if this one came out now, Carl would say: 'This is ok, for xkcd. But 1) the joke's been done [I've seen it done elsewhere, so I dare say he has] and done better; 2)the art's rubbish - look, he's got a dent in his head, his arm's not attached and if the dialogue didn't say so I wouldn't know that was meant to be a golf club; 3) the alt-text adds nothing and it's not funny.' Then I'd reckon either of the following rants would be outside bets for inclusion: 'I just saved a bunch of money'? no one talks like that!; no Randall, neither you nor any of your friends ever threatened anyone with a golf club, because none of you have any balls. God I want to punch you in the face.
Sound familiar?
"So you don't think there's an appropriate level of analysis? I have to say I disagree. That's not to say I'm against analysis - far from it. But nevertheless there comes a point when you have analyzed something as much as is useful, and further analysis will only have you going round in circles."ReplyDelete
Except, no one uses "overanalyze" to mean that, even if I agreed with you on this point. People use it to mean "you shouldn't analyze this." I've never seen it used to mean "some level of analysis is okay, but you have gone beyond what is useful."
"Or, to look at another example, in literary criticism I think people often read far more between the lines than is actually there (IMHO people are especially bad at doing this to Shakespeare)."
You aren't a literary critic, are you?
When analyzing any piece of art, you are going to find stuff that "isn't actually there." Take some of the stuff I've written, for instance. I have had stories where people read them and highlighted some imagery and symbolism they thought was really great. The only problem is I didn't put those in there intentionally. They spotted something that wasn't really "there" to begin with.
So where does that leave us? Does that mean that their finding is any less useful, because I never intended for it to be found? Does deconstructing a story that I've written and looking at some underlying themes that I was not thinking about at all when I wrote it go too far? Is that overanalysis?
Even assuming I didn't put it in subconsciously, is the point of analysis only to find what the author wanted you to find or what the author put in there?
The point of literary criticism is not just to find what the author was trying to say, or meant to say. It is trying to find what the text says, and what we can glean from the text. The worst thing an author can do when someone is trying to criticize him is explain what he was thinking or what he intended or say something like "well, it was never intended to be subjected to this level of analysis." Or, more commonly, "I just intended it as an amusing thing, it doesn't have any deeper message."
Everything anyone can ever say has a deeper message. What does it mean that I used those words in that order? What exactly am I trying to say? What's the subtext?
Even ignoring the volumes you could write about pacing and art, word choice is incredibly important. You can write pages about a single sentence, its connotations, what it means when placed into different contexts, how the change of a single word can completely alter the narrative thrust of something.
With Shakespeare, the genius is not that he intentionally sat down and wrote all of these clever subtexts into his writing. Writers generally don't do that. When I write I usually think of two characters that I think would have interesting interactions.
No, the genius of Shakespeare is that despite it being hundreds of years later, there is still useful discussion to be had from reading his work. His observations on human nature, society, characters, and so on are not just interesting for the time in which they were written (there are plenty of notable examples of this), but interesting for society right now--on top of being interesting for the time in which they were written.
Everything a writer does is a choice. What if X character were male instead of female, or vice versa?
I read once that EA Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart" can be read with the assumption that the narrator is female. It is an utterly fascinating way to read the story. It is almost certainly completely unintended. Is that overanalysis? Or is it allowing the text to inform a situation it never planned for by making trenchant observations about gender and human nature?ReplyDelete
Even utterly mindless entertainment can be analyzed with incredible depth. Take any of the movies in the genre of "stupid American comedy." You could take them apart line-by-line and see what it says about society, about the audience, about the author. You can look at pacing.
If it is possible to over-analyze, where does one draw the limit? I would say that the only way you can over-analyze is to start writing things that you don't actually think are true. That is, if you are only filling space. But even then, that is more disingenuous analysis than it is overanalysis. I could have nothing to say about something and write a disingenuous paragraph about it; this doesn't mean that it is excessive: maybe you could write three pages of text about the same thing and still not be finished.
"I'm trying to say that the extent to which you guys now look for flaws, and more importantly the primacy you give that activity, mean that it's much more difficult for any of you to like an xkcd than it was before this website started."ReplyDelete
This is not indicative of overanalysis so much as it is a basic side-effect of changing your paradigm. See, if you read something with the assumption that it is good, you are inclined to like it. You will gloss over its foibles, you will make excuses for the bad ones and assume that they are outliers.
if you read the same thing with the assumption that it is bad, you will notice the flaws--not because you are actively looking for them or "overanalyzing" but because you already think that it is bad. You will be more willing to apply a critical eye to it.
I would argue that assuming something is bad is much closer to a neutral perspective than assuming something is good. Are there XKCDs we would have enjoyed back when we liked it that we don't now? Certainly. There are several comics where we have said as much: "I probably would have liked this one when XKCD didn't suck." Does that mean that our criticism is invalid? Not in the least.
See, a negative expectation merely means you are more receptive to flaws. It is possible to go into something expecting it to be terrible and to come out enjoying it.
I just pasted that into Word. I bet I get an A.ReplyDelete
- MichaelJanuary 13, 2010 at 1:57 PM
There already is a better Prius. It's called a Suburban.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 2:04 PM
I don't get why this blog needs an official motto. Or an official food. Does it contribute to the purpose? Is it in any way helpful? It is very kiddy.ReplyDelete
xkcdsucks is super seriousReplyDelete
facetiousness WILL NOT BE TOLERATED
- Way WalkerJanuary 13, 2010 at 2:14 PM
"A lot of the alt subcultures, by the way (and I use 'alt' here super broadly to incorporate goth, punk, hipster, etc), are usually pretty decent at saying 'fuck the world' without subsequently turning and whining that the world doesn't like them. Not universally, but for the most part being liked by the world is not on their agenda."ReplyDelete
I wasn't just thinking of those that turn and whine that the world doesn't like them, but also those that turn and make sure the world doesn't like them for it.
As for the literary criticism, I don't think unintended symbolism is usually any more meaningful than any other coincidence. Did Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett die two days after Ed McMahon because that would be three celebrity deaths in three days and things happen in threes? Did this create a domino effect that killed Billy Mays within a week? Or was it just a coincidence?
I think reading "The Telltale Heart" with a female narrator, watching "The Wizard of Oz" while playing "Dark Side of the Moon", or Duchamp's readymades are essentially new, derivative, works. Poe's work isn't saying anything about gender and human nature, the person who suggested reading it with a female narrator is.
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.ReplyDelete
It is very important to keep in mind that when you read something you are not reading Edgar Allan Poe when you read The Tell-tale Heart. He has written the words, past tense. He is no longer a part of the conversation. It no longer matters what Poe is trying to say. What matters are the words on the page in front of you, and how you are reading those words.
Why should unintended symbolism be any less meaningful than intended symbolism? It can be much more revealing.
Indeed, why does the author's intent color anything that you read? Imagine that a random character generator managed to produce a brilliant short story, and it was given to you to read. You are told nothing about the author. You read it and are suitably impressed. You admire the symbolism. You love the imagery. And at no point did any intention besides random chance touch this story. How is that different from a short story written by human hands?
Why should we devalue coincidence, if you are going to be so crass as to call unintended symbolism and subtext coincidence? The author's intention means absolutely nothing. You are reading words that have already been written. If you can find value in the author's work, in the symbolism he did not intend, then that has value.
That is what literary criticism is all about. Finding value. Finding meaning. Finding subtext. Finding. You do not find things that are out in the open. You find things behind locked doors. You find things in dusty forgotten attics.
A work can take on entirely new meaning and value due to events that the author could not possibly have foreseen. Does that have no value? It's a mere coincidence--and yet a simple event about which the author knew nothing and over which he had no control can completely change the way a text reads. Does that not have value? Should we only look at it in the eyes of the author? Do you really want the world to be so dull? It is precisely the things the author did not intend that give a work life beyond the moment where the author puts pen to paper. A story takes life when there is an audience.
A play that I wrote was performed recently. The girl who was playing the female lead had a completely different take on the character than I did--and it was wonderful. This is one of the best parts about theatre: two people can take the same character and make her completely different. Different productions can do completely different things with the exact same words. Does this make the words less important? Does this diminish the playwright's role in having written them?
It is certainly true that a poorly written play fails to come to life. A thing which is poorly written will rarely contain any unintended symbolism or accidental imagery. There are no interesting subtexts to speak of. A thing which is poorly written does not spark thought or analysis. People do not look at it from new angles to try to get as much as they can out of the text. And yet here you are limiting the work to only the author's intentions, as if the work is not what creates these pieces of unintended life.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 3:00 PM
Today's comic has just leaped off the awesome scale!ReplyDelete
Many people may disagree with me, but I am such a sucker for things like this. This reminds me of Godel, Escher, Bach, the best book ever!
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 3:41 PM
Rob: Surely the author's intent must matter to at least some degree. For example, if I made a blogpost where I said "Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff" sucks because of its sophomoric (and often nonsensical) jokes, its poorly-written dialogue, and its ugly art, and explained why all of these things make the comic terrible, and gave all indication that I was being completely sincere, you'd (rightfully) think I was an idiot, wouldn't you? And yet all of what I said is true, the only reason I'm an idiot is because I didn't take the author's intent into account.ReplyDelete
Rob is already covering this pretty well but for those who don't know, the kind of thinking he is deriding is called the "author fallacy" which states that a work can ONLY be viewed within the context of the author's personal beliefs and experiences. It is a fallacy because this is a complete load.ReplyDelete
Knowing what the author wanted to express and personally believed is nice, but his works exist OUTSIDE of who he was, and thus are completely irrelevant to what the work has to say.
Actually I read about a good example of this a year back or so. Most people here have read Farenheit 451, a story by Ray Bradbury. For years and years, schools have been making their students read this story, and what has been the major theme taken from it? "Censorship is evil and bad."
So cue an interview with Ray Bradbury a few years back when someone mentioned this and he immediately denies it. "No! Farenheit 451 has nothing to do with censorship! It's a story about how television will make everyone stupid!"
Does this suddenly make the censorship interpretation invalid? Is Ray Bradbury's view of his story the only correct one? If it is, why?
Oooh, here's a good example. Covered bridges. People take pictures of covered bridges and they're considered to be scenic. But the bridges were built with only one intention: to help people cross rivers or chasms. If the intent of the creator is all that is valid, doesn't that mean people cannot interpret them as beautiful works of art? After all they were not created with that goal.
Then you get to the art world with people like Duchamp and Andy Warhol and it becomes abundantly clear that the creator of a work has zilch to do with the meaning of the work itself.
"Surely the author's intent must matter to at least some degree."ReplyDelete
Nope, sorry. Take an Intro to Lit course and report back.
After the work leaves the author's hands, THE AUTHOR BECOMES JUST ANOTHER CRITIC, and his voice does not (or rather, SHOULD not) have any more weight than anyone else's.
P.S. Figured Anon 8:00 would've disliked "phallogocentrism" more. There's an even longer neologism in Derrida's "The Animal That Therefore I Am" but I can't find it at the moment...
Way Walker, I don't care what you think, but I thought that whoever decided one day to listen to Darkside of the Moon and watch The Wizard of Oz at the same time should be given a huge pat on the back. I also like to think his/her reasoning was such "hmmm, should I watch The Wizard of Oz, or should I listen to Darkside of the Moon? Oh hell let's do both, an example of the best work from either medium meshed together, what can go wrong?" and as far as I am concerned, nothing went wrong because it's kind of cool to mix things that were not originally meant to be done that wayReplyDelete
'Knowing what the author wanted to express and personally believed is nice, but his works exist OUTSIDE of who he was, and thus are completely irrelevant to what the work has to say.'ReplyDelete
'Then you get to the art world with people like Duchamp and Andy Warhol and it becomes abundantly clear that the creator of a work has zilch to do with the meaning of the work itself.'
That's not true. And it's not even consistent with the rest of what you wrote!
'Rob is already covering this pretty well but for those who don't know, the kind of thinking he is deriding is called the "author fallacy" which states that a work can ONLY be viewed within the context of the author's personal beliefs and experiences.'
This is true (except I've only heard it called the intentional fallacy, never the author fallacy.) But rejecting that kind of thinking ("the author's intention is the ONLY THING that matters") doesn't logically lead to, "the author's intention is not important at all." That is an extreme.
It's important to remember that art is just another form of communication. Communication of some idea. If you respect an author, it's probably worth your time to figure out what they meant with a text. If you take some other meaning from it, then that's great, and if you think your interpretation is especially worthwhile, then maybe other people would find it worthwhile too.
It's really no more complicated than that.
When you get into discussions like this, things can get pretty murky. There are people who don't know what they're talking about, people who are pursuing some kind of agenda, and some people who are just nutjobs. And there are reasonable people. I'd take some of the comments in this thread with a grain (or shaker) of salt.
"If you respect an author, it's probably worth your time to figure out what they meant with a text."ReplyDelete
Sure. But it's important to read it as just another interpretation. The author's intent, thoughts, feeling, on her own work does not occupy a privileged position that is somehow automatically more valid than another interpretation.
"If you take some other meaning from it, then that's great"
Yes it is.
Okay yes I messed up on the name. It is more correctly referred to as the "intentional fallacy."ReplyDelete
And no, "the author's intention is not important at all" is not an extreme. The work DOES exist independently of the author. Once he writes it, his interpretation is no more or less valid than any other critic's. The author can of course comment on his own work, but his comments are in no way superior to someone else's. They do not take precedence, and if someone finds a meaning in it that the author did not intend, EVEN IF the author himself says "No I did not intend that" it doesn't matter. The author has absolutely no say-so in how people can read what he wrote.
As I said, the life of the author, his personal beliefs, can be nice and give a bit of insight into what he MAYBE meant, but it's not the absolute definitive authority. Indeed, it's not even an authority at all, since again, the author is not the only person who can say what a story is supposed to mean. A story can mean different things to different people, and as long as they can back up their statements with examples from the text itself, it's valid.
I'd like to add that also if you want to believe that the author's intent is of primary importance then that means that we can never analyze or know the meaning of anonymous works like say, Beowulf or the Epic of Gilgamesh or even some of the books of the Bible, because we don't have an author to define them.ReplyDelete
And that would just be silly.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NATE BABY JESUS WROTE THE BIBLE FROM HIS LITTLE MANGER THINGYReplyDelete
you're gonna burn in hell now
Burn baby burn!ReplyDelete
(Disco inferno)
Burn baby burn!
(Burn that mama down)
Burn baby burn!
(Disco inferno)
Burn baby burn!
(Burn that mama down)
- ScottMcTonyJanuary 13, 2010 at 6:26 PM
Of course it's an extreme Nate. Or are you one of those people who think Authors are a channel through which some silly spiritual muse flows? Probably not, but you know what? Once you hit send on that comment, your view on what you meant are no more valid than anyone elses, so I can at least behave as if the comment infers such a silly idea.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 6:37 PM
Update the motto, you dirty liar.ReplyDelete
s'funny how you lit-crit kids are coming away from reading derrida or barthes or whoever saying the author is no more important than anyone else, and then for your next class, researching Johnson's opinion on Shakespeare's plays because well Johnson had some interesting things to say about them.ReplyDelete
i mean, forget the AUTHOR, his interpretation is no better than anyone else's. but the CRITIC, well now! the critic really understands the work you see and is worth listening to.
i fully agree that the author doesn't deserve a privileged position on the basis of Being The Author, but he does on the basis that he's spent an awful lot of time working on and thinking about the text in question.
so your bashing of the idea of any intention, any sign of a unified consistent mind producing the work as opposed to a chance collection of symbols and suggestions, strikes me as a bit...much.
time for the calm down kids.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 6:49 PM
Man fuck whatever cuddlefish triggered this bullshitReplyDelete
- Way WalkerJanuary 13, 2010 at 6:58 PM
I agree that the author's intent isn't of primary importance. As a simple example I imagine a debate where the argument put forth by one speaker actually supports his opponent. However, I don't think it's completely unimportant since I also don't discount the context in which it was written. One of the reasons I liked the earlier xkcd comics better is entirely down to author intent; now that he does it more like a professional they take on a different tone. After quickly reading what Wikipedia has to say about the intentional fallacy, I don't see why the author's intent should inform the work any less than "any historical knowledge and past expertise or experience with the kind of art being interpreted: its forms and traditions". Why should the works of Shakespeare be more important in interpreting the works of Beckett than Beckett? "Born in the U.S.A." is not blind nationalism.ReplyDelete
I think Beowulf is an interesting example. From what I can tell, some of the discussion about it centers around whether the Christian elements were original or tacked on later. The intentional fallacy would say that this is irrelevant. I've also seen it pointed out that the author and his audience would've known that Wealthow's trust would later be betrayed, but this fallacy would say that only our knowledge is important. Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q. wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it didn't seem to be at odds with the original intent.
I suppose the difference is in the example of the random number generator creating a beautiful picture. To me, that is a dead thing with no life to it. You say that by tying it to the author's hand I kill it, but I say that's what gives it life. Pollock's works are more interesting than a can of paint I tipped over by accident.
Cam: I think you misunderstood me. I love the Dark Side of Oz. I wasn't using "derivative" in a negative sense, just the technical sense.
Someone mentioned covered bridges. I disagree that the only intent of the creators was to create passage over water since they often include decorative touches, at the very least painted in more than one color. But I also consider the picture to be a work in itself. We could say it's a derivative work, but it's not the original work. Duchamp's Fountain and Trap are not a urinal or coat hooks.
"This is what literary criticism is all about. Finding...You do not find things that are out in the open...Finding."ReplyDelete
I heartily disagree. Literacy criticism, and indeed all supposed 'quests' for meaning, whether in art or science etc, are about the creation of meaning. Creating meaning. Creating value. To use the word 'finding' suggests that this 'truth' sits there and it is up for you to discover it; it gives it a sense of objectivity and depersonalises the process. You do not stumble upon some sort of meaning in a work, you create it. Each reader (or viewer, or listener, or whatever)engages with the text, as well as myriad and varied other influences (e.g. historical context, literary context, life experiences etc) and negotiates value and meaning. Through this rhetorical process, meaning is created, not found. Meaning in this way exists in the realm of the contingent; it is not something objective to be discovered. I think from the rest of what you wrote, you would agree.
Jesus Christ.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 7:41 PM
The post above me is clearly an attack on established religion. The poster clearly respects such things, as the capitalization of "Jesus Christ" suggests but he or she has grown weary of the establishment and instead wishes people would think on their own and develop a more personal relationship with God.ReplyDelete
Or he or she is just blown away by how ridiculous this conversation has become. Clearly xkcd isn't even near interesting enough this week to be bitched about.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 7:42 PM
well Way Walker you were right, I did misinterpret what you were going for, but on the topic of who's view is correct (;P) I viewed your comment as a negative, and the Pink Floyd fanboy in me erupted in a fury of typing, well ok it wasn't that bad but I did view it as a negative and I strove to defend the point, just because I could >_> <_<ReplyDelete
Oho, you clever anon.ReplyDelete
"Once you hit send on that comment, your view on what you meant are no more valid than anyone elses, so I can at least behave as if the comment infers such a silly idea."ReplyDelete
Oooh, nice strawman! But sorry, I did not say "You can interpret anything in any way whatsoever and it's completely valid!" I said that the author's intent is not of primary importance or superior to all other interpretations of a work.
If you want to interpret a work as meaning something, you have to be able to back it up with the work itself. For example I can't say "The novel The Color Purple has an underlying theme that Hinduism is the one true religion" unless I can provide examples from the novel that this is valid. If I can't provide even a single sentence that this could be true, then it isn't a correct interpretation.
You can infer anything about my comment once I hit send. Let's assume that's correct. However unless you can back it up with facts purely from that comment then it isn't valid. At that point your only defense is to say "Well then it was meant to be sarcastic or ironic" but even then you must prove that it was meant to be such. The burden of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.
The reason I said "let's assume it's correct" is because a comment I make is completely different from literature. While open to interpretation (otherwise politicians wouldn't be able to use weasel words), statements a person make about themselves or their own personal beliefs USUALLY aren't subject to the same rules that a fictional work by the person would be due to their nature.
"i fully agree that the author doesn't deserve a privileged position on the basis of Being The Author, but he does on the basis that he's spent an awful lot of time working on and thinking about the text in question."
Except that the text exists outside of his life, which is why we can still look for meaning in Shakespeare even though he isn't around to tell us what his intent was.
Fuck it, Rob is a hell of a lot better at explaining this stuff than I am, so I'll leave it to him. I'm probably just making things worse.
- ScottMcTonyJanuary 13, 2010 at 8:36 PM
I think I agree with everything Rob said, in that the authors stated intentions aren't total authority, and you're right, in conversation the sayer is the be all and end all, but in any creative work, if it's important to author it's often just another form of communication. I suppose the importance is - when it's something important to the author, the author knows the most about the characters and the world, while all we have is what he's shown us. I don't know how that phrasing would allow it to apply to xkcd though.ReplyDelete
And it wasn't a strawman, just a poorly done argument ad absurdum!
- Way WalkerJanuary 13, 2010 at 8:39 PM
Cam: My favorite part is Money, especially when the sax kicks in. What are your feelings on when the new soundtrack runs out? I've heard some put it on repeat, or start it on the third lion's roar again. I just let it end.ReplyDelete
Honestly, the entire reaction against the "intentional fallacy" is a distasteful one to me. The author matters, because the art is entirely a product of the author. The author's intention matters, because the art is entirely a product of the author's intentions. Once complete, art does not magically sever itself and become an independent entity; it remains the creation of an intentional being and to view it otherwise is asinine.ReplyDelete
A less obnoxious reactionary position is that the author is still important for the creation of a work, but then when it comes to commentary on the work, the author is on an equal footing with everyone else. This is still bollocks, since art is communication--an act of information transfer from the artist to the viewer. The artist as the intentional originator of this information has a privileged point of view with regards to the content of that information, and there is thus commentary on art that only the art's creator can provide.
About the only point I can agree with is that the artist cannot be the sole determinant of an art's meaning, but that much is obvious as soon as you recognize art as a piece of communication, since audience is goddamn vital to comprehending the meaning of any communication. Any communication is a collaboration between speaker and listener.
The term "overanalysis" is still poisonous. Also, I'd love to imagine analyzing XKCD before we read it. Sorry, honey, that's just...no. I can't even saw "nice strawman" since it's really a pretty poor one.
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 9:33 PM
Shut the hell up Mal, you dumb fuck.ReplyDelete
Guy killed me, Mal
He killed me with a sword
Rarely do I trot out the peacekeeping role, but I'm pretty sure every argument, pro and con, is out on the table now. Neither side is convincing the other. Let's just all agree to cease and desist and STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS. I think we're forgetting the real reason we're all here anyway...
- AnonymousJanuary 13, 2010 at 9:52 PM
What does this discussion of works of art have to do with XKCD?ReplyDelete
TOO MANY WORDS.ReplyDelete
i can turn this van right around, kids.
@ Way WalkerReplyDelete
Well it all depends on the kind of mood I'm in really, I first discovered it when my cousin was over (this was around 5 years ago) and he said that someone had mixed it together and uploaded it on Youtube, so it was done with Darkside played twice. Our first reaction was kind of a "... so, uh what's going on?" but about the time On the Run started, things were starting to correlate more (eh, that's an opinion but, to us it seemed that the music and what was happening in the film were complimenting each other by that time, instead of fighting each other) and we got a good kick when Money started playing, simply because of what was happening in Oz, we found it highly entertaining.
These days, since I don't have my own copy of Oz, I continue to occasionally find it online and start up the ol' turntable in my room (can't have it any other way than vinyl :P) and usually I try to listen to it however many times it takes (depends on how motivated I am to get up and flip sides every time).
A while ago I went looking on Youtube to see if it was still up, instead I found something where someone had tried to match up Wish You Were Here with Disney's Alice in Wonderland. Now that didn't work out that well, well almost, it was successful because the walrus and the carpenter part was done while Welcome to the Machine was playing, and that seemed... appropriate believe it or not.
I love how any time an intelligent conversation springs up some fuckwit is always there who doesn't have the intellect to understand what's going on, shouting "this is stupid" and "STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS."ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 14, 2010 at 4:30 AM
eat some chicken stripsReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 14, 2010 at 4:31 AM
(like a boss)ReplyDelete
Thank you anon for your wonderful contribution to 15 blog posts, my email inbox thanks you for it.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 14, 2010 at 6:40 AM
Man you must have hated The AutodidactReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 14, 2010 at 10:20 AM
Someone might have said it already, but this comic involves absolutely no "finding random data that ends up equalling pi." Dimensional analysis involves setting up what are called "Pi-groups," which are used to establish relationships between variables based on units. No calculations are performed in this aspect of dimensional analysis, and no numerical data is necessary; all that is needed are the units in which the variables are measured, and this is just a Pi-group.ReplyDelete
If you stop letting us sell firearms I WILL LEAVE THIS SITE FOREVERReplyDelete
- AnonymousJanuary 15, 2010 at 12:14 AM
"Sure. But it's important to read it as just another interpretation. The author's intent, thoughts, feeling, on her own work does not occupy a privileged position that is somehow automatically more valid than another interpretation."ReplyDelete
Wow, the logical conclusion of contemporary literary critique is that contemporary literary critiques is meaningless and without worth.
Haha, stupid english majors.
- MichaelJanuary 16, 2010 at 9:23 AM
"I have never been taken with the idea of selling a gun. When you possess a firearm, you possess something of importance. If you trade it for cash, you have lost it − and the cash in your hand will soon be gone. Sell something else!"ReplyDelete
-- Jeff Cooper
- AnonymousJanuary 30, 2010 at 6:56 PM
That's Rich Auntie Aloria, unless she, I dunno, grew a penis or something.ReplyDelete
his new name is "alorio"ReplyDelete


text:
The thing I love most about this comic is: it's making fun pf physicists, but he just throws in one of his trademark "liberal arts majors suck in every way" jokes, completely for fun. Look at that caption: It could easily start with "There's nothing more obnoxious than..." which would be snappier and get to the point faster. But no! Just like his disclaimer that his comic is too advanced for Liberal Arts Majors to enjoy, or his many comics about how if you are a liberal arts major, you aren't really learning anything or working very hard, and no one respects you.
Besides being incredibly smug and douchey, what's funny about this pattern is that the liberal arts includes a lot of math stuff. Here, go to the Wikipedia page on it. There are seven "liberal arts," which are as follows:
1. grammarNow I can see that "rhetoric" is probably not something Randall thinks much of or has much respect for. OK. But I don't think the world is overrun with a scourge of aimless, destructive rhetorticians. Grammar is the same way. Music, #6, is generally not considered a science in any way but if you've studied music theory at all, you know that not only does it tend to include a lot of mathematical, logical thinking, but that a lot of people who study it seriously are also really into math on its own.
2. rhetoric
3. logic
4. arithmetic
5. astronomy
6. music
7. geometry
As to the other four, geometry and arithmetic are both clearly math, astronomy is a hard science, and logic is often thought of mathematically. So I don't see why Randall keeps shitting on the "liberal arts" given that the majority of them are hard sciences. Perhaps he means to say "Humanities" or something like that, or "soft sciences," but the fact is, he doesn't say that. So he should either correct himself or shut up. He sounds like a huge prick every time he goes down this path.
Now, it's true that I'm ignoring the majority of this comic, including its message, that physicists don't understand why things are complicated. Quite frankly, it's because I don't care. I'll let the rest of you folks tear that part to shreds; it simply doesn't speak to me.
As you can see, I've created a tag for "liberal arts suck don't they" for this type of comic, if you'd like to help me point out the old posts which should have this tag, that would be lovely.
In other news, Apokalips was never a great comic, but it is decent enough that I make a point to check it regularly. I think it's admirable that the author has recently chosen to slow down his publishing schedule and not hold himself to firm deadlines, rather than have the overall quality of the work go down. I
And this made me laugh.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Missoula [18] is a medium size city in Western Montana with a population of about 70,000. The hub of five valleys in the northwest region of the state, or Glacier Country, the town boasts the University of Montana, the Rattlesnake Wilderness Area, and a multitude of recreational opportunities, along with an active and colorful downtown.
Though physically part of the Rocky Mountains region, culturally Missoula identifies closely with the Pacific Northwest. Home to the University of Montana [19] and often considered by residents as the most liberal city in Montana, it's an interesting mix of ranchers, cowboys, hippies, yuppies, students, artists, athletes and recreationalists. Graduates from the University of Montana frequently remain in Missoula, creating a large over-qualified work force. A local barista or cook may have, at the very least, a Bachelors degree. Tip well; they have loans to pay off!
Get in[edit]
The easiest way to Missoula is by air. Major hubs that service Missoula's International Airport (IATA: MSO) include Salt Lake City, Denver, Minneapolis, San Francisco, Chicago and Seattle.
Missoula can be reached by car via US Interstate 90, or US Highway 93, which runs north - south from the Idaho border at Lost Trail Pass all the way to Alberta, Canada. US Highway 12, which follows the Lewis and Clark trail on the west to and from Idaho, provides access to unspoiled wilderness areas and great scenery.
Be advised that road conditions in Montana can be very hazardous in the winter, and if you are not accustomed to driving winding mountain roads or in extreme snow/ice/sleet/hail/rain conditions, you should exercise extra caution.
Get around[edit]
Visitors to Missoula often remark that the city is hard to get around in by car, a fact Missoulians famously owe to conflicting city engineers at the turn of the century. The confusing roadways make the city bus system a great way to get around for only a dollar[20], but with a little orienting, the city can be much more easily navigated.
See[edit][add listing]
Geographically, Missoula is dominated by the scenic Clark Fork river that flows through downtown and the mountains ringing the city. The Kim Williams Trail, which follows the waterfront, is an easy way to appreciate the former. Tubing, rafting, and canoe/kayaking are also good options in the summer.
Mt. Sentinel, on the east side of town, offers a scenic trail system. A trail starting at the University of Montana leads 700 feet up the mountainside to the "M," which offers great views of the city. More adventurous hikers may continue another 1400 feet to the peak of Mount Sentinel, which offers great views of the city, the Rattlesnake Wilderness to the north, and Mount Jumbo to the north. Those with binoculars may perceive the ancient shoreline of Lake Missoula on Mount Jumbo, marking the edge of an enormous ice-age lake. One can also take the trail off the backside of Mt. Sentinel, which zig-zags down crossing the parasailing jeep road a few times to a sign which shows the lovely trail down thru forest on Sentinel's north side that ends at the old railroad tracks, now the Kim Williams hike/bike trail, and then back to the parking lot at the "M" trails base. Doing the loop in reverse is also very pleasant.
Manmade scenic attractions include the Missoula carousel in Caras Park, the historic courthouse, a fine old train station (closed to the public) and several fine art galleries. The Missoula Art Museum is also worth a visit. Knowing that it could never outbid its big-city counterparts for works by famous artists, the museum has instead hosts regularly-rotated exhibits of Western art and works closely with community arts groups. Furthermore, the price is right for visitors, as demonstrated by its slogan: Free Expression, Free Admission.
Lastly, if you enjoy history both of Missoula's historic railroad stations still stand, preserved, and in use. One, built by the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad [21] is currently used by the Boone & Crockett Club and the other built by the Northern Pacific Railway [22] is used as office space by local businesses and home of the Missoula Farmer's Market during the summer months.
Do[edit][add listing]
Missoulians enjoy a range of outdoor activities including hiking, rafting, "tubing", rock climbing, skiing, fishing, golfing, and just about any other activity that can be done outside. It's no wonder—in Missoula you can take a city bus to within walking distance of federally designated wilderness area. After hiking and returning to town, you can visit the historic downtown and enjoy some fantastic local food and drink.
Snowbowl, at 7,600 feet, is a great place to ski that is very affordable.
Year-round 'First Friday' finds art galleries open to strolling passersby with music and food offered for free.
The public library on Main Street has special talks and presentations, about Montanan history, for example. There is also a movie 'Cheap date' night with popcorn and a drop-in Scrabble Club Monday evenings.
Buy[edit][add listing]
Thanks largely to the city's vibrant arts community, the downtown offers a wide variety of unique shops. Visit on a Saturday if possible, when there is a street market and farm market.
The downtown Army Navy store offers good deals on an array of outdoors gear. Larger outdoor gear stores are available on Reserve Street, domain of Missoula's big box stores.
The best stores feature local goods from Montana artisans.
Eat[edit][add listing]
Drink[edit][add listing]
There are three breweries in the city with public taprooms:
Missoula wineries include:
Sleep[edit][add listing]
Stay safe[edit]
Get Out[edit]
Missoula's immediate surroundings offer a wide array of activities for all seasons, including the outdoor recreation afforded by vast tracts of public lands, the Old West flavor of several nearby ghost towns, several ski slopes, and a range of unique Montana businesses.
Hamilton, Montana[edit]
An hour south of Missoula on US-93, the small town of Hamilton offers several worthwhile attractions and proximity to the spectacular Bitterroot Mountains.
Hot Springs[edit]
Pattee Canyon has nordic ski trails groomed regularly when theres enough snow by the missoulanordic.org club, for skating and classic techniques with mostly easy flat terrain, though its often icey. Lolo Pass, 45 miles southwest of Missoula, has good nordic Ski trails groomed saturday/sunday early mornings by the Clearwater National Forest contractor, which offer excellent classic and skating tracks. Theres also a warming hut and a staffed lodge at the pass.
Public Lands[edit]
Other Sites[edit]


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John Hodgman on VACATIONLAND
Hodgman speaks to the Amazon Book Review about painful beaches, bad facial hair, and his memoir, VACATIONLAND.
Jaron Lanier | Dawn of the New Everything
VR pioneer and techno-philosopher Jaron Lanier discusses his new book with the New York Times' Maureen Dowd.
Through a fascinating look back over his life in technology, Jaron Lanier, an interdisciplinary scientist and father of the term "virtual reality," exposes VR's ability to illuminate and amplify our understanding of our species, and gives readers a new perspective on how the brain and body connect to the world. An inventive blend of autobiography, science writing, philosophy and advice, this book tells the wild story of his personal and professional life as a scientist, from his childhood in the UFO territory of New Mexico, to the loss of his mother, the founding of the first start-up, and finally becoming a world-renowned technological guru.
Understanding virtual reality as being both a scientific and cultural adventure, Lanier demonstrates it to be a humanistic setting for technology. While his previous books offered a more critical view of social media and other manifestations of technology, in this book he argues that virtual reality can actually make our lives richer and fuller.
Lanier appears in conversation with writer and New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd, author of 2017's "The Year of Voting Dangerously."
Ha Jin: 2017 National Book Festival
Ha Jin discusses "The Boat Rocker" at the 2017 Library of Congress National Book Festival in Washington, D.C.
Speaker Biography: Author and poet Ha Jin left China in 1985 to attend Brandeis University and eventually pursued creative writing at Boston University. He is the author of several novels, short story collections, volumes of poetry and essays, including "Waiting," "War Trash," "Nanjing Requiem," "Ocean of Words," "Under the Red Flag" and "Between Silences." Jin has received a National Book Award, two PEN/Faulkner Awards, three Pushcart Prizes, a Kenyon Review Prize, a PEN/Hemingway Foundation Award, an Asian American Literary Award and the Flannery O'Connor Award for Short Fiction. His latest novel is "The Boat Rocker." Jin currently teaches at Boston University.
A Cabinet of Curiosities: The Luxurious Samuel Pepys & John Evelyn
Samuel Pepys and John Evelyn are two of the most celebrated English diarists. They were also extraordinary men and close friends. Margaret Willes, author of The Curious World of Samuel Pepys & John Evelyn explores the love the two men had for the curious and luxurious.
George Monbiot talks about Rules for Revolutionaries
This video is a portion of George Monbiot's talk "Out of the Wreckage" filmed for The Gaia Foundation
From The Gaia Foundation:
"In this powerful and positive talk for The Gaia Foundation, George Monbiot brings to life his new book, Out of the Wreckage - A New Politics for an Age of Crisis.
George explains how a toxic ideology of extreme competition and individualism not only rules the world, but misrepresents human nature, thereby destroying hope and common purpose whilst fracturing communities and the ecosystems upon which we all depend. He argues that only a positive vision can replace it; a new story that re-engages people in politics and lights a path to a better world, and a more respectful relationship with our beautiful planet.
George explore new findings in psychology, neuroscience and evolutionary biology cast human nature in a radically different light: as the supreme altruists and cooperators. He shows how we can build on these findings to create a new politics: a 'politics of belonging', and a politics which has community, reciprocity and respect for all species at its heart. Both democracy and economic life can be radically reorganised from the bottom up, enabling us to take back control and overthrow the forces that have thwarted our ambitions for a better society and better stewardship of the Earth.
George provides a thrilling and positive vision, and the hope and clarity required to change the world.
Find out more about The Gaia Foundation and our events here www.gaiafoundation.org
This was filmed in Heath Street Baptist Church, North London by Ben Gray for The Gaia Foundation. 23rd November 2017."
Salman Rushdie and Daniel Alarcón reading new works
Set against the backdrop of American culture and politics, Salman Rushdie's new novel, The Golden House, is a modern epic of love and terrorism, loss and reinvention. Full of unforgettable characters, Daniel Alarcón's The King is Always Above the People is a new collection of stories about immigration, broken dreams, Los Angeles gang members and Latin American families. "He's a storyteller whose wisdom outpaces his youth and whose talent is already ablaze," wrote ZZ Packer.
Introduced by Emma Brockes and Laura Perciasepe
Ruth Whippman: "America the Anxious"
Ruth Whippman discusses her new book, America the Anxious: How Our Pursuit of Happiness is Creating a Nation of Nervous Wrecks. When Whippman, a British journalist, moved to California, she found that the most common obsession amongst the people she met was finding happiness. But it seems as though all the yoga, mindfulness, and self-help seminars are actually making us less happy, not more.
"Why do you have a grudge against America, Mr. Dorfman?"
Homeland Security Ate My Speech: Messages from the End of the World is an emotionally raw yet measured assessment of the United States after the election of Donald Trump from literary legend and political dissident Ariel Dorfman.
Extreme Cities: The Peril and Promise of Urban Life in the Age of Climate Change
"Extreme Cities" author Ashley Dawson in conversation with Kate Aronoff and Mandy Ikert. Moderated by Audrea Lim. Recorded at Verso Books in Brooklyn on October 20, 2017.
Ashley Dawson, author of "Extreme Cities: The Peril and Promise of Urban Life in the Age of Climate Change," offers an accessibly written discussion of two of the greatest forces affecting society in the twenty-first century: urbanization and climate change. Anchored in a portrait of New York City during and after Hurricane Sandy, he adopts a comparative lens to show how and why extreme social and climatological conditions are germinating in cities around the globe.
In addition to painting the challenges urban civilization faces in the twenty-first century in stark terms, "Extreme Cities" lays out a program for the socially just cities that are necessary to help humanity survive the coming storms of climate chaos.
A Celebration of Gwendolyn Brooks
Elizabeth Alexander, Tyehimba Jess, Yusef Komunyakaa, Quraysh Ali Lansana, Marilyn Nelson, Sharon Olds, Atsuro Riley, Sapphire, Solmaz Sharif and Patricia Smith get together for an evening of readings to celebrate the centenary of Gwendolyn Brooks — part of a year-long, nationwide tribute to one of America's most influential poets whose career offers an example of an artist always responsive to the dramatic historical, political and aesthetic changes and challenges she lived through. Co-sponsored by Our Miss Brooks: A Centennial Celebration, the Academy of American Poets, Cave Canem Foundation, the NYU Creative Writing Program, the Poetry Society of America, Poets House and the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture (NYPL).
Recorded on Monday, November 13 at 92nd Street Y.
Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith Inaugural Reading
Tracy K. Smith gave her inaugural reading as the 22nd Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry. She was joined by National Youth Poet Laureate Amanda Gorman, who opened the event with an original poem.
Speaker Biography: Tracy K. Smith was born in Falmouth, Mass. in 1972 and raised in Fairfield, Calif. She is the author of three books of poetry, including "Life on Mars," winner of the 2012 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry; "Duende," winner of the 2006 James Laughlin Award and the 2008 Essence Literary Award; and "The Body's Question," winner of the Cave Canem Poetry Prize. Smith is also the author of a memoir, "Ordinary Light," a finalist for the 2015 National Book Award in Nonfiction and selected as a Notable Book by The New York Times and The Washington Post. Her fourth poetry collection, "Wade in the Water," will be published in 2018.
Painting the Black Gospel
In Painting the Gospel: Black Public Art and Religion in Chicago, art historian Kymberly Pinder provides a fascinating survey of some of the stunning religious iconography central to black belief, worship, and resistance. Beginning with images of black-Christ in key Chicago churches, Pinder explores murals, sculpture, and even t-shirts, including works by William Walker, Richard Hunt, and Damon Lamar Reed. Along the way she uncovers how and why African-American faith communities have remade religion in their own images. Join her for a fascinating, image-rich lecture.
This annual lecture recognizes a generous multiyear grant from the Terra Foundation for American Art. The Terra Foundation is dedicated to fostering the exploration, understanding, and enjoyment of the visual arts in the United States for national and international audiences.
"The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump": Psychiatrist Dr. Bandy Lee
Questions over President Donald Trump's mental health continue to grow, following his speech on Wednesday where he slurred his speech and mispronounced words during an address on Israel. White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders responded Thursday to the mounting concerns by announcing that Trump has scheduled a physical health exam. Meanwhile, Pentagon leaders last month told a Senate panel they would ignore any unlawful order by the president to launch a nuclear strike. The testimony came as part of the first congressional hearings in more than 40 years on the president's authority to start a nuclear war. We speak with Dr. Bandy Lee, a forensic psychiatrist on the faculty of Yale School of Medicine and an internationally recognized expert on violence. She edited the best-selling book, "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President."
Masha Gessen - LIVE From The NYPL
Masha Gessen comes to the New York Public Library in honor of the annual Robert P. Silver Lecture.
Masha Gessen seven words :
Evidence Based
Science Based
Recorded live at the Celeste Bartos Forum at the New York Public Library on December 18, 2017
Mexico's Nobodies: The Cultural Legacy of the Soldadera & Afro-Mexican Women
Christine Arce discusses her book, "Mexico's Nobodies: The Cultural Legacy of the Soldadera and Afro-Mexican Women," which examines key figures of Mexican history that have remained anonymous despite their proliferation in the arts: soldaderas and Afro-Mexicans.
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Sesame Street Season 49
Sesame Street's 49th season officially began Saturday November 17 on HBO. After you see the new episodes, post here and let us know your thoughts.
TV Alert: Frank Oz, Brian Jay Jones honor Jim Henson on The Today Show October 15
Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by Phillip, Oct 14, 2013.


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Planning For A Kitchen Remodel in Fernside, California
You might perform a home remodel and you'll discover that a method is to handle the price quickly. You'll possess a company who might demonstrate images of the job you could do, and they'll assist you with after look and before at each style. They've experts about the team who'll help you finish a style, plus they have companies who'll get to your house prepared to support. There are certainly a quantity whenever you select businesses near me to assist of issues you might do, along with a business that provides the very best search for big kitchens and kitchens in Fernside, California is a superb choice indeed.
The task which you do on the budget can help you conserve money in your home in Fernside, California, and you'll discover that it's easier to conserve money on each area of the work. The folks that handle the task for you'll present you all he areas of the task that you might cut from, and they'll assist you realize which taps of the task are crucial for you. You will be taught by them by letting you employ their providers quite a bit about your home simply, and they'll assist you to realize why you have to handle areas of your home in a particular way.
You'll begin with an appraisal for the work, whether or not the task is big or small and it'll be comprehensive. You're provided a record that describes the way the function will be completed, and you'll have small guidelines created about the record that clarify the way the work is going. Whilst the function is performed you might follow-along, once they occur or you might ask questions. Record and the appraisal alone will come having a unique adviser that sets out the way the function will be completed, and also the ideas may detail materials and all of the components for every area of the work.
Whenever you concerns about costs companies near me can help you, and they'll demonstrate just how to maintain a home remodel's price down. They realize that you wish to save just as much cash as possible, and they'll do around possible to assist you. they have solutions that will assist show you within the right way, although they might not have all of the solutions you'll need. While they allow you to using the task you might follow their guide, and you'll discover rapidly that a method is to produce a home you will be pleased with without paying a lot of money.
eveloping A Arrange For The Kitchen Remodel in Fernside, California
Format and the shades for that home might be selected very cautiously the project design team and also by you. They'll assist you to by showing photos of additional areas to you they have completed, plus they might take you with among their shops to provide you with a concept of that which you you might purchase or a showrooms. There are lots of choices that you might select from, and you'll discover that you might develop a home with island, with no island, with several devices, in a little space or in a sizable room.
You might line funding for that home up once you have go through all of the developments which are occurring in the market,and you will request a business near me to assist you using the various areas of your kitchen in Fernside, California that really must be improved and also the units. Planning for a home remodel does take time since you won't have every other period to complete it after you have acquired supplies that you need to be prepared to devote towards the procedure. It's a good idea to talk to the contractor-you are employing, and they'll demonstrate just how to strategy each one of the layout tips you've around.
You might need help with numerous various things that'll issue into your home layout, and you will request the organization in California to assist you with:
Creating in 2017 demands that you just spend time making certain you've everything you'll need for your home in Fernside, California. You have to produce a schedule for that job, and you'll discover just how the company is going to do it and that you might produce a big schedule that describes all of the job it's to be achieved. There are lots of actions to check out to make sure that the kitchen seems its greatest in Fernside, California, and you'll discover that estimates in the company may let you know how they intend to manage each area of the home in Fernside, California.
This program they're employing can help them produce a format for that space, and they'll provide you with a schedule that's clear to see. You'll discover quite a bit concerning the home while you prepare using the company, plus they might inform you items that you didn't know. It's probable that they can give data to you you could not need thought, and you'll realize whenever you look for supplies that you have to make allowances for these issues. The company can help show you within this procedure, and they'll demonstrate ways to get the greatest returnoninvestment. You're attempting to boost one's home's price, and you will do this quickly whenever you include your house and the correct items.
How Will You Study Companies in California?
The study which you do on companies online may comprise evaluations which you have discovered online, and you'll discover who provides you with the top results, and who makes errors, who great work. You'll discover that the businesses you're selecting from will help by supplying a project arrange for your kitchen in Fernside, California, you conserve money. You might follow the project strategy that you're provided, and you'll discover quite a bit concerning the procedure that'll be usedto assist you. You have to understand if you should be confident before you employ them with the contractor-you have selected, and you'll discover that they're capable before they begin of providing you with quite a bit of details about the task. They'll assist you to discover why it's very important to employ somebody who understands exactly how to work well with the supplies you intend to utilize, and they'll answer any questions you've.
If you should be uncertain which company to utilize you might look further online, and you'll discover that all of them have evaluations and sites you might study. You might examine their list, when you're on the website and you will do some pricing by yourself. They provide you with ample info to utilize for pricing, and they'll assist you to discover what it requires to really get your home completed. You might start planning out of this stage, and you'll possess a stronger concept of just how to maintain your home under your allowance.
The organization wishes one to have as numerous options as you can, plus they wish to help you save cash in the same period that they're offering an excellent company to you. They're currently showing you that your home might change right into a location that's ideal for enjoyable, and they'll demonstrate that you might produce a space that everybody desires to visit. Somebody who has an awareness of your kitchen business in California may realize that there are lots of contemporary developments to think about. They'll give suggestions about issues like the open-concept to you, and they'll assist you to arrange for the task.
Permit the organization to assist by performing should of the research for you you prepare the task. They and they will do all the following issues and them, respectively long prior to. Your home remodel in Fernside, California:
The task that you're performing inside your home can come right down to several crucial options that you need to produce. You'll discover that you have to choose each product that gets into your kitchen in Fernside, California, and you'll possess the products purchased to be delivered to your house. Once they get the things your own house the company will start focus on your kitchen in Fernside, California, and they'll do the job the moment everything is here. They would rather create these options along with you, and you will be shown by them which products would be the most cost effective for the house. After you have requested everything the actions that you simply try maintain the home within the finest situation possible is likely to be useful, and you'll begin to see the space start to get together.
While they're producing these changes, the one who handles the task provides you with an update every day, and they'll demonstrate what should be completed present day to create your kitchen into he in CA. They need one to have as numerous contemporary details within the space as you can, plus they need one to experience as if the area is just over everything you had a key development. This can be an easy method to save money, and you'll discover that the savings are far more than worthwhile since a more effective home is managing.
When you wish to alter your home right into a completely new space the KitchenCabinetGurus can help you. The area is a definitely better spot to entertain and prepare, and you'll observe that you mays et the area within the design up that you simply produced in your thoughts. Their design group can help you obtain the work and they'll demonstrate drawing or a drawing that represents exactly what the space will appear like when it's done.
So you might develop a home you'll be happy with you have to follow their guide. Your kitchen in CA you're creating is likely to be an incredible spot to visit, and it'll give your visitors as well as you an ideal spot to have dishes or events. The activities that you host within the home is likely to be a lot more enjoyment for you personally, as if you're in another of the contemporary locations you've previously been and you'll experience. The home in Fernside, California may increase in price, and also the home is a feature for that home later on that everybody is likely to be satisfied with.


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We know that planning a wedding means making decisions on a lot of details. But we also know that one of the first decisions you'll make – and one of the largest details of your day as well as the one that will most impact your day's theme and style – is about the wedding venue itself.
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Gomes is a Portuguese surname. It is derived from the Visigothic word guma meaning "man". In the English language, the pronunciation rhymes with homes.
Gomez is Spanish, Gomes is Portuguese!
by masstransit September 10, 2013
A male between the ages of 17 and 29 who is a sports fan, collared shirt wearer, and most likely a college student that is prominent in a Fraternity. Statistics indicate that nearly 85% of these people are named Chad.
I went to a football game last week, and couldn't find a seat on account of all the Gomes there.
Hey dude, wanna play some Gomeball later?
Kappa Gome Theta threw the craziest party last night!
Hey dude, wanna play some Gomeball later?
Kappa Gome Theta threw the craziest party last night!
by Chadwick Stevens April 10, 2011
A derogatory word for someone regarded as dim-witted or unintelligent.
by Heno-C December 23, 2010
A person or situation that is whack or "chaunce." There are three levels of ghome, a word which originates in the Pacific NW in Tacoma, WA. Level 1: unintentional and somewhat ghome. Level 2: either an intentional yet low-strength ghome or an unintentional, severe ghome. Level 3: an intentional, super-ghome, also known as a "ghome out" when a friend does something particularly ghome to another friend, friend b has been "ghomed out".
Robski, a 46-year old man who lives in his parents backyard, dealing meth and fixing bikes in The Broken Hoe, a shack the Tacoma police have identified as unfit for a human residence. Robski personifies the word ghome.
by DJ Slick Tits March 10, 2005
Said as self-congratulation, either to oneself or to draw others' attention to an accomplishment. Is usually harmless or joking, but can be obnoxious if done too much.
"I answered every question right. Go me!"
"I knew this would be the quickest way to get there -- go me!"
"I knew this would be the quickest way to get there -- go me!"
by Foos and shoes February 10, 2013
a phrase used to entice another person in order to fight them, usually is used as a joke and not an intensional fighting line.
Bob: hey how are you?
Jim: you dont even smoke!
Bob: GO ME!
Jim: you dont even smoke!
Bob: GO ME!
by you will nevaaaa know March 16, 2011
Pulling a Gomes is not doing what you planned on doing, sleeping all day, leaving you on seen, saying you will be there but you cancel last minute, saying you can't go out and then you see him an hour later. Pulling a Gomes can also be doing your college thesis at the last minute, getting lazy to pay for your senior trip, or even drinking free water cups at panera without buying anything.
The list goes on and on
The list goes on and on
Daniel: Hey Gabe, wanna come to the park?
Gabe: Yea sure, ill be there in 10 minutes.
*1 hour later*
Daniel: Did you just pull a Gomes on me?
Gabe: Yea sure, ill be there in 10 minutes.
*1 hour later*
Daniel: Did you just pull a Gomes on me?
by THEOGOFQUEENS February 09, 2014


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Revision as of 09:27, 23 October 2014
Notice of Annual General Meeting
Notice is hereby given in terms of the Articles of Association of Wikimedia ZA NPC, that the Annual General Meeting will take place as follows :
- Date : Saturday, 1 November 2014
- Start Time : 11:30 am
- Expected End Time : 15:30 pm
- Venue : Twenty Fifty, 1st Floor, Truth Coffee Building, 36 Buitenkant Street, Cape Town
Every member entitled to attend and vote at a meeting of the Chapter, shall be entitled to appoint another person (whether a member or not) as his or her proxy to attend, speak and vote in his or her stead.
Alternatively members can elect to take part using conference telephone facilities or other similar electronic means. The formal request to take part electronically must be made via email.
A copy of the proxy form is available here.
If you would like someone else to act as your proxy, and they will be attending the AGM, please complete the Proxy Form authorising the person to vote on your behalf on the day of the AGM. Please note that a signed copy of the proxy form must be presented at the AGM.
If you would like the Chapter Administrator to act as your proxy, please complete the Form and return it either electronically to The Administrator or post it to :
- Wikimedia ZA
- Postnet Suite #146
- Private Bag X9190
- Cape Town
- 8000
If you prefer to join the AGM virtually, please send your formal request to either The Administrator or Douglas Scott. Please note that you must have a gmail account in order to join with this option.
Please note that proxies and requests to participate in the AGM electronically must reach The Administrator by Friday, 31 October 2014 at 18:00 in order to be valid.
More information on appointing a proxy can be found under the Articles of Association
Call for Directors
Persons elected onto the Board of Trustees do so on a voluntary basis, and must adhere to the Code of Discipline for Directors as contained in the By Laws of the Chapter.
Elected members must also adhere to the Code of Conduct as prescribed by the Wikimedia Foundation.
More information on Directorship can be found in the Articles of Association
The current board and the structure of the Chapter can be viewed here
If you would like to nominate a candidate for consideration, please send an e-mail to the Administrator by no later than 24 October 2014 using the template below.
As a member of Wikimedia South Africa, I hereby nominate for election as a member of the Board of Trustees the following candidate.
Name of Candidate
Username of Candidate
Contact Number of Candidate
Please note that the nominee need not be a member of the Chapter.
Preliminary Agenda
- Opening and Welcome - President of Chapter
- Quorum
- Approval of Previous AGM Minutes
- Report from President
- The Chapter over the past year from an Administrative point of view
- Wikimedia ZA Projects in 2014
- Projects in 2015
- Membership
- Strategy Formulation Session
- Resolutions
- Election of Directors
- Election of Office Bearers
- Next Meeting
- Closing
- The award ceremony for Wiki Loves Monuments 2014will be held later the evening at the Slave Church, 40 Long Street, Cape Town. Please stay on and join us for that event.
Please indicate your attendance by including your name below :