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[Page 145]
In the 20s the Zionist Histadrut was organized in our city with great energy and momentum. At its head were Shalom Litevka, Mendel Kosover, Moshe Baruch Ashman, Bunim Radzyminsky [later in Israel, Ben Razy], Shmuel Kaminsky, Shimon Dembosky, Abraham Yonish, Naftali Bromberg and Eli Gingold. The Zionist Histadrut influenced the communal life of the city in different areas. In addition to its communal library Tarbut, the organization developed strong cultural activity, including Sabbath evening lectures as well as weekday lectures. The young people argued heatedly on many subjects, such as building of the Land, literature, culture and safeguarding the civil liberties of Polish Jews.
Important people were brought in from Warsaw to lecture on Zionist topics. Among them were Yitzhak Gruenbaum, Dr. Yitzhak Shiffer, Dr. Moshe Kleinbaum (SNEH = Burning Bush in Hebrew), engineer Yitzhak Landstok (currently Alon in Israel), Dov Straubaum and others. They were in charge of organizing the Zionist Histadrut in our city and were official representatives of the National Funds (Keren Hayesod and Keren Kayemet).
The library Tarbut developed quickly. It included hundreds of books in Hebrew, Yiddish and Polish. The library board encouraged reading and exchanging books to increase ease of conversation and knowledge of the subject matter of books as well as their authors. Near the library, reading clubs and Hebrew classes were organized to discuss current writings and newspapers.
During that period in Poland the Zionist Histadrut split into three factions, Al HaMishmar (On Guard), Et Livnoth (A Time to Build), and B'rit Atzoar (The Revisionists), all within the framework of the Zionist Histadrut. This split influenced our branch in Radzymin. Most of the members in our city identified with Al HaMishmar, at whose head was Yitzhak Gruenbaum. The leadership of the faction in Warsaw encouraged the branches to have suitable activities to create a good presence in the Jewish community and the city council.
In the election to the city council, the Zionists succeeded in electing a
number of representatives: Abraham Don, Moshe Baruch Ashman, Abraham Zlotilas,
Yehiel Tchepansky. The latter was elected as a member of the city government.
In the Jewish community the Zionist Histadrut was represented by Yehiel
Tchepansky, Israel Yaakov Warshawsky and Shmuel Oppenheim. The cultural
activities were assigned to Bunim Radzyminsky, Mendel Kosover, Yitzhak Hochman,
Bunim Weinglass, the brothers Avraham and Laybel Yonish, Shalom Kosover, Esther
Esther Goldstern and Simcha Goldstern. Appointed among the workers of the library Tarbuth were Chanshe Kosover, Rochele Yonish, Ita Treister, Hannah Neimark and Herschel Futerman.
Po'alei Zion, Left (Liberal Zionist Group)
In the twenties a branch of the Po'alei Zion Left was organized in our city, headed by Shlomo Morgenstern, Yehoshuah Epstein, Yaakov Oppenheim and Eliezer Frager. The founder of the group was the teacher Kastel from Warsaw, who was sent by the party in Warsaw to neighboring cities to fulfill requests for lectures by the Zionist parties.
The branch Po'alei Zion Left was successful in developing a strong cultural program as well as political activities. During this period the branch succeeded in bringing distinguished speakers to Radzymin who lectured on political and cultural topics in the auditorium Ochrona. Among the guest lecturers were Yaakov Zruvavel, Yaakov Pat, Dov Bar Malchin, Buchsbaum, Moshe Waida and others.
The starosta (head of the town) in those days, Vladislav Korsak, at one time the wise minister of the interior in Poland, appeared several times as a lecturer at the meetings of the Po'alei Zion Left in Radzymin. He lectured to the group on Borochowism. The starosta was very knowledgeable concerning the national problems of the Jews in Poland and in the world. Being sympathetic to our problems, it is understandable that during the years of his university studies in Kiev he had become friendly with Bar Borochow and his books, and he personally studied Borochowism.
Po'alei Zion, Right
In the beginning of the thirties the branch Po'alei Zion Right, whose seed was already evident in the twenties, became very active in our city. The branch had its own meeting place. It organized a wind orchestra of its own, and once this orchestra was invited to accompany the demonstration of Po'alei Zion Right in Warsaw on May 1. The branch conducted demonstrations widely for the benefit of Socialist Zionism, and it identified with the working element of Eretz Yisrael.
With the members of the branch were also included members who were not swept
along with left-stream anti-Zionism. They dreamed of building their future in
the land of Israel as workers and physical laborers. Among the workers of
Po'alei Zion Right from Warsaw who led the Radzymin branch at different times
were the brothers Abraham and Yaakov Biapolsky, Leib Shpizman, Silverman and
others. Active members of Po'alei Zion Right included Yitzhak Hersch Yonish,
Leibel Yonish, Yitzhak Puterman, Shlomo Potosh, Shlomo Stardiner, Mordechai
Halbershtat and Beryl Nidzvitsky.
At a certain point there crystallized in the branch a group of Hitachdut (Unification) at whose helm in Warsaw was Abraham Levinson. Also serving with the group were Yehoshuah Goldstein, Yehoshuah Treister and Yitzhak Hochman.
The Mizrachi (Zionists, people who look toward Jerusalem)
In the beginning of the twenties a branch of Mizrachi and of Mizrachi Youth were formed
in Radzymin. The Mizrachi, religious Zionists, succeeded in countering the anti-Zionists of Agudat Israel. The workers of Mizrachi were very active in the National Funds and engaged in all other areas of Zionist effort as well. Members of the Mizrachi branch in our city were Rabbi Menachem Hagar and Yaakov Chaim Grunberg, who lectured in the synagogues and called on the Jewish community to participate in the building of the Land and to encourage the youth to make Aliyah. The fiery evenings on which Rabbi Hagar and Grunberg lectured, I still remember to this day.
Rabbi Hagar was opposed by the Hasidim of Gur. They deplored that a rabbi in Israel should associate with Zionist free-thinkers. But Rabbi Grunberg was also opposed by the Zionist youth for his criticism of Zionist organizations that did not comply with religious requirements. This polemic continued in the community night and day.
Among the members of the Mizrachi in our community were: Shmuel Zeinwel Epstein, Reuven Bzezinsky, Chaim Radziner, Chanina Kaminsky, Herschel Wagman, Avram Shlivkovsky, Avram Radziner and others.
Jewish National Fund for Israel
The Jewish National Fund for Israel comprised an umbrella organization that included all the Zionist groups in the city. Through the collection of funds to redeem the land they were able to see actual Zionist work in progress and the beginning of the realization of the Zionist dream.
As usual, the J.N.F. organized a day of flowers on Wednesday, a market day. Many villagers who came to the city on market day were proud when a pair of youngsters, a boy and a girl, came to collect donations. For the most part, the Jews who received the blue and white pins did not understand the explanation of the purpose of their contributions of money into the J.N.F. blue boxes.
Among the active members of the J.N.F. were: the brothers Leibel and Abraham Yonish, Barish Avkovitz, Zislah Ashkenazi, Shlomo Ashman, Israel Yaakov Varshofsky, Rochele Yonish (the sister of Leibel), Mendel Gingold, Sholom Kosover, Raiza Gingold, Esther Treister, Esther Goldstein, the brothers Chaim, Shlomo and Abraham Yonish, Zev Liberant and others.
p. 177. Committee of Zionist Histadrut in Radzymin
p. 178. Committee of the Cultural Histadrut, Radzymin, 1932
p. 179. Committee for the National Fund (Keren Kayemet) for Israel
[Page 193]
The group was established in our town in January of 1929, in the Zionist Club (community club). The group consisted of young people, among them some of the past members of a Hasomer Hatzair (The Young Guardians) group that had fallen apart in Radzymin.
The past Hashomer Hatzair fell apart two years previously, which is why everyone wanted to reorganize the branch once more. The break down of the old group happened mainly because of a lack of organization and ideas that managed the Zionist movement in Poland in the late 1920s. Also, the disorganization led to the failure of the 4th aliyah (out of Poland), and most of those who left chose to return. Some of those who returned did so because of their opposition to the group's leftist inclinations. Because of the new ideas of the group, there was an understanding that the new shomer movement preferred to be without a party, to be a more visionary Zionism, and that the members would be 18 and older.
[Page 194]
After a few years, we felt as though the shomer had turned into a bunker for tons of youth, from all levels and all ages. Within the walls of the clubhouse, the daily worries were forgotten and the youthful fun returned.
It was emphasized even more when we were in a circle on a wintry night and everyone in the village danced and sang Al Ha-Emek V'al Ha-Galil (about the valley of Jordan, the Galilee, the Kineret, and the far away birth lands).
Only a few had the privilege of fulfilling their dream. Most of them were not able to go to Israel. The ones who were able to go were those who already had received the permission after finishing group skill (this term my mother had trouble translating she said it was some sort of group training, but she couldn't exactly explain it), and were awaiting certificates. Among those who could leave were Hannah Neiman, Zahara Zalman, Rachel Osovsky, Shmuel Avkovitz, and my brother Avraham. May their names be remembered and blessed. For our brother and friends that were torn and were annihilated in the spring of their lives, we will mourn them, and we will remember them forever.
JewishGen, Inc. makes no representations regarding the accuracy of
the translation. The reader may wish to refer to the original material
for verification.
JewishGen is not responsible for inaccuracies or omissions in the original work and cannot rewrite or edit the text to correct inaccuracies and/or omissions.
Our mission is to produce a translation of the original work and we cannot verify the accuracy of statements or alter facts cited.
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Updated 30 Jan 2008 by LA


text:
as honorary captain for the seventh-ranked Wolverines on Saturday when they open the season against Hawaii. Michigan is the first and only college
WASHINGTON -- Stephen Strasburg had hitters flailing at curveballs for seven scoreless innings. Air Max 270 Coral Stardust . The pitch got him all eight of his strikeouts. One batter even had his helmet fly off while trying to chase a low-and-away bender. It was another gem of a performance gone to waste for the Washington Nationals ace. Strasburg said afterward he no longer wanted to hear about the lack of run support, but the only people who can stop the talk are his own teammates, who failed him again Tuesday night in a 4-0 loss to the Milwaukee Brewers. "You know, Im tired of talking about that," he said. "These guys battle every single day, just like I do, and it just didnt work out for us tonight. But Id like to get over that. Id like to stop answering questions about run support." Strasburgs ERA dropped to 2.24 and nearly overshadowed the games actual outcome. He was done after seven innings and 105 pitches, and Juan Franciscos two-run double in the eighth started a scoring spree off Drew Storen (2-2) as the Brewers snapped a six-game losing streak. "Thats the first time Ive really seen him live -- so explosive fastball, really ridiculous curveball," said Brewers manager Ron Roenicke, giving his Strasburg review. "You dont see too many curveballs like that." The Nationals had scored 23 runs in their previous two games, but theyve now been shut out nine times this season. To get an idea of the their lack of support for Strasburg, here is the running tally of earned runs hes allowed in his last nine starts: 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 0. His record during that stretch? Just 3-2. "I think when a guy throws like that, he should be able to win," Nationals left fielder Bryce Harper said. But he didnt. Francisco got the big hit off Storen and scored when Martin Maldonado hit a warning track fly ball that popped out of Harpers glove. It was ruled a double but Harper said simply: "I dropped it." Maldonado then scored on Jeff Bianchis groundball single that got through the infield only because Maldonado was trying to steal third with an absurd jump off Storen, who still hasnt figured out how to hold men on base. "Fall behind these guys," Storen said, "give them something to hit and theyre going to take care of it. ... I made mistakes not holding the runners and fell behind guys." The earned runs were the first allowed by Storen in 10 appearances, and they made Jim Henderson (3-2) the winning pitcher. Brewers starter Wily Peralta had his own shutout in the making until he left during the sixth inning with a strained left hamstring. Henderson was one of four relievers who finished the eight-hitter. Roenicke said hes hoping Peraltas tight hamstring was simply the result of a lack of fluid on a humid day. "Were hoping in a couple days hell be all right," Roenicke said. The curve was Strasburgs go-to pitch Tuesday against a meagre Brewers starting nine that has only 31 home runs combined. Amaris Ramirezs helmet went flying when he swung at a low-and-outside strike three in the second inning, and his juggling right-handed catch of his headgear was the only thing impressive about his at-bat. Maldonado couldnt quite check his swing at a similar pitch to end the inning. In the third, Strasburg froze Peralta with a bender that hardly seemed fair to throw to an opposing pitcher. Rickie Weeks struck out going after a low-and-away curve in the fourth, and Peralta did the same in the fifth. With the bases loaded and one out in the sixth, Strasburg got a called third strike on Francisco on a curveball that was maybe a bit outside, then got Sean Halton on the now-familiar low-and-away curve, with Halton unable to check the swing. Strasburg allowed three hits. Two never left the infield, and one appeared to result from a bad call at first on a grounder to the hole by Norichika Aoki. He was hardly facing the most imposing lineup in the majors. The Brewers started without shortstop Jean Segura and centre fielder Carlos Gomez, who have 196 hits combined. Both have nagging injuries that need some rest, a thumb for Segura and a shoulder for Gomez. Also, team RBI leader Jonathan Lucroy didnt start because Maldonado usually catches Peralta. It was a lineup that couldnt do much -- until Strasburg left the game. "It was good," Weeks said, "to get him out of there." NOTES: Brewers OF Ryan Braun, on the 15-day disabled list with a bruised right thumb, took some swings in the batting cage. "Were getting to the point where its not pain-free, but a lot better than it was," Braun said. Roenicke said hes not expecting Braun to return until after the All-Star break. ... The Nationals sent outright RHP Cole Kimball to Triple-A Syracuse. ... The Nationals agreed to terms with seven international free agents: RHP Edwin Adames, C Jose Cabello, RHP Angel Guillen, LHP Jose Jimenez, OF Victor Robles, OF Dany Rojas and C Edwin Trejos. Air Max 270 Ocean Bliss . The Americans, skipped by John Shuster, seized the advantage in the eighth end by scoring five points for a 7-3 lead. The Czechs pulled two back in the ninth, but Shusters team of third Jeff Isaacson, second Jared Zezel and lead John Landsteiner ended with another point to secure the last Olympic berth on offer. Nike Off White Jordan 1 Retro High Og . PETERSBURG, Fla. http://www.nike270-airmax.com/air-max-270-midnight-navy.html . -- Peyton Manning will have all of his wide receivers available for the first time in a month when the Denver Broncos begin their playoff run Jan. ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Tom Brady has found at least one thing to do during his suspension.The New England Patriots quarterback will return to his alma mater to be Michigans honorary captain Sept. 17 when it hosts Colorado.Brady will sit out the first four games of the NFL season, serving a suspension because of his role in what has become known as Deflategate. The Patriots drafted Brady out of Michigan in the sixth round in 2000 after he shared time as senior withh Drew Henson. Off White Air Max 90 Ice For Sale. Michael Jordan will serve as honorary captain for the seventh-ranked Wolverines on Saturday when they open the season against Hawaii. Michigan is the first and only college or pro football team to wear Jordan Brand apparel, cleats and shoes.---AP NFL websites: http://pro32.ap.org and http://twitter.com/AP-NFL Cheap Jerseys Free Shipping NFL Jerseys Cheap Wholesale Authentic Jerseys Jerseys NFL China Wholesale Jerseys 2020 Wholesale Jerseys 2018 Discount NFL Jerseys ' ' '
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Species Description
White-tailed Deer
Odocoileus virginianus
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Artiodactyla
Family: Cervidae
The body color is reddish brown in summer and grayish brown in winter. The belly, chest, throat, chin, and the inside of the back legs are white. The tail is brown above and white below, hence the name. This is the smallest member of the deer family in North America. Depending on geographic location, the White-tailed Deer ranges in size from 1.3 - 2.1 m (4.3 - 6.9 ft) in total length and weighs from 40 - 125 kg (88.2 - 275.6 lbs). The tail is held erect and waved back and forth when alarmed. Males have antlers with one main beam on each side. The beam sweeps up and forward without forking, with 3 - 6 tines, or with points projecting upward from each antler beam.
Life Cycle
The breeding season, called rut, occurs from October to January, with a peak in November. Gestation takes from 195 - 212 days, and one or two young are born in May or June. Fawns weigh 2.5 - 4 kg (5.5 - 8.8 lbs) at birth. During the first week the fawn remains hidden in tall grass or under cover of other vegetation while the female forages. Within a month, the fawn accompanies the female at all times. Fawns are weaned at about eight months of age and may remain with the female (doe) for over a year. Fawns are reddish brown and covered in white spots until the fall of their first year. Sexual maturity is reached at about 1.5 years of age, but full size is not attained until 4 - 5 years of age.
Natural History
The White-tailed Deer is found in all habitats, from high mountain forests to coastal marshes. Prime areas are those which have a mix of forest, old fields and active crop lands. The White-tailed Deer is a browser, feeding on leaves, buds, and twigs of wide variety of plants. It also eats acorns, fruits, mushrooms, and many herbaceous plants. Agricultural crops like alfalfa, corn, milo and soybeans are also eaten. Feeding activity peaks are at dawn and dusk. The White-tailed Deer generally beds down during the day, but is occasionally seen during daylight hours. Otherwise this species is primarily crepuscular and nocturnal. Natural predators are bobcats, mountain lions, and coyotes, which may feed on the young. Humans are the predominant predator and many individuals are killed by collisions with vehicles. The White-tailed Deer has a maximum known lifespan of 15 years, but the average is less than five years. This species can also be considered a pest when it inhabits areas close to homes and gardens, for it will eat many kinds of cultivated plants.
The White-tailed Deer ranges throughout Georgia, and is common in the eastern two-thirds of the United States and southern Canada. It has been recorded in all 48 contiguous states, but is rare in California, Nevada, and Utah.
Conservation Status
This species is one of the most sought-after of all game species in North America, and one of the most heavily managed by state and federal wildlife agencies. The White-tailed Deer is managed in Georgia, with strictly controlled hunting seasons for both archery and firearms. The hutning season runs from late September to early January.
Similar Species
No other antlered, hoofed mammals in the southeastern United States can be confused with this species.


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October 10, 2006
Wednesday evening marked the beginning of fall break for the men of Wabash College. For most, that meant packing some bags. But for four Wabash men, the break will be a very unusual one. They are visiting Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, one of three remaining all-male colleges in the United States.
The four students flew out of Indianapolis Wednesday evening to Richmond, Va. Today they will visit classes, meet with the Dean of the College and take part in a welcoming reception at Skiptop Cottage. Most of Friday will be interviews with campus and student leaders.
Although certain to be a special trip for the attendees, the venture is itself special as it marks several firsts. The trip marks the first joint venture between The Wabash Commentary, Wabash's conservative journal and the Bachelor, the weekly campus newspaper.
Brandon Stewart '08 and Sean Clerget '09 are the two representatives from TWC, while the Bachelor is sending Brock Johnson '07 and Campbell Robbins '08.
The trip also marks the first step in what many hope will be greater communication between the two colleges.
"I hope to help build a friendship that will last for years to come," Clerget said. "Wabash and HSC are both successful all-male institutions. I hope to learn some of what has made them so successful and hopefully they will learn from us as well."
Other students are excited about the opportunity as well. "The trip should be very fruitful." Johnson said. "This is an opportunity to get an insider's view into how another institution operates - everything from curriculum to student housing."
Brock's expertise as a photographer made him a great candidate for the joint venture. "The main purpose I was asked to go on the trip is that I am a photographer, and I can therefore document the trip visually."
His photos will be used in the weeks following the trip by both TWC and the Bachelor as the two publications work together to best share their experiences.
Jeremy David Forrest '08 and Michael Rutkowski '07 will be representing the Hampden-Sydney Tiger. The two students will arrive in Indianapolis Sunday night.
Much of Monday will be set aside for the students to visit Wabash classes. They will also be welcomed at an early-evening reception in Detchon. Forrest and Rutkowski will depart Tuesday evening.
In photos: Top to bottom, Stewart, Clerget, Johnson and Robbins.


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Antoni Gaudí is the man behind the bizarre yet ingenious Park Güell, the most famous park in Barcelona. Commissioned by businessman Eusebi Güell, the architect started building a dream village on the edge of the city that was supposed to resemble a fairy-tale forest. Even though the village was never completed, as only 2 of the 60 planned houses were built, Park Güell is still truly unique.
Park Güell is best described as a fantastical exuberance. Bright colours, unusual architectural shapes and natural curves: Gaudí certainly gave his imagination free rein. The park was built between 1900 and 1914 and is located on El Carmel Hill in the Gràcia neighbourhood – one can clearly see how the artist tried to integrate his creation into the landscape.
Antoni Gaudí actually lived in one of the 2 completed homes in the park from 1906 to 1926. That house is now called Casa Museu Gaudí and was turned into a museum that displays drawings and furniture. One of the highlights in Park Güell is the famous mosaic snake bench that wraps around the panoramic terrace; this is officially the longest bench in the world. The story goes that Gaudí was inspired by the story of Adam and Eve when he created this bench. Note the double stairs with a salamander and fountain on top.
Carrer d'Olot, Barcelona
Another unique sight is the 'Hall with 100 columns': a hall with 100 columns – although a careful count reveals there are only 86 – that support an entire square and create a lovely pavilion full of shade to escape the Spanish summer heat. Observe the ceiling and admire the various indentations, decorated with religious, mythological and astrological symbols. The square above the hall is called the Gran Plaza Circular, which is where the world-famous benches decorated with brightly coloured ceramic tile pieces are located. Apart from all these sights, it must be noted that the magnificent view of Barcelona is at least as worthwhile. Tip: follow the walking trails to the top of the mountain for even better views of the city.


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Yesterday I went on a women's retreat put on by the Women's Community at my church. I was a little hesitant about going because the last time I went to an all women's retreat the retreat was organized by a very bible based church,
I was in my 20's and the women who attended were nearly all (gasp) women in their 50's. Yesterday's retreat was very different. The average age of the women was still probably 50+ but somehow now that I am closer to the average age, that wasn't such a big deal. The bigger difference was the theme and feel of the retreat–no bible thumping, hallelujah-shouting, blue-haired women here. The theme of the retreat centered on the body-mind-spirit connection, and the ritual we all use in getting our bodies in a place to open our minds, and our spirits.
Zelda, a female Episcopalian priest from my church, led the retreat. She helped to show us how some of our daily rituals open our minds and spirit. Something as ordinary like stretching in the morning, or like me, washing my face at night. As I listened to the other women offer examples of daily ritual I realized that I could use some more ritual in my life, something other than the washing-my-face-at-night-before-I-go-crashing-into-bed-and-falling-asleep-as-I-try-to-get-through-my-nightly-prayers. All, too often I don't even get to the nightly reflection part because I am so tired at that point all I want to do is lay down and SLEEP!
One of the ways we were supposed to use our body's on yesterday's retreat was to walk around this amazing retreat center in the San Gabriel mountains very close to my house. Yesterday's springtime temperatures and clear skies made a glorious day to be walking about the mountains.
Zelda had set up the walking labyrinth, and she set up a trail with small stations along the way. We were asked to walk the labyrinth or walk along the trail (the body connection).
Along the trail Zelda set up "sacred stations," which were meant to be places where you could stop and wrap yourself in a prayer shawl and meditate on the writings that were placed at each station, or meditate on some of the questions we were given at the start of the retreat, then we were asked to write or draw our thoughts in a journal, (the mind connection).
At the end of the two-hour walking and journaling period, we returned for lunch and, if we wanted, we shared our thoughts, and had communion, (the spirit connection). It was a transformative day.
I came away with many thoughts and revelations but one of my thoughts was that I should really practice this more often. I need more ritual in my life so that I can get to the mind/body/spirit connection. And, as Zelda said, if you say it aloud for the universe to hear then it often works. So, I'm saying it out load to the blogosphere–"I am going to get up a half hour earlier to walk and meditate and journal." This is huge, because as my husband Juan says, my daily ritual is trying to sleep in as long as possible before I have to start my day. Please pray for me.


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Members of Congress will get paid $174,000 this year. But at least 100 members of Congress from both parties have proposed to refuse or give away their pay during the government shutdown in solidarity with furloughed federal workers.
Many of these statements are from members who are pledging to donate their salary during this term to charity, which of course no one would complain about. But some members are trying different routes. Rep. Rick Nolan, D-Minn., introduced a bill Tuesday that would require members of Congress to have their salary withheld during a shutdown. House Ethics Committee Chairman Mike Conaway, R-Texas, sent a letter to the chief administrative officer asking for his pay to be withheld for the duration of the shutdown.
These high-profile donations and pay requests have created a not-insubstantial amount of positive buzz for members of Congress during a time when almost everything being said about them is negative. But this isn't only a PR stunt. It's also a moment that highlights how removed members of Congress are from the reality of most of America.
Most Americans can't just demand to have their pay docked or withheld, or easily part with an unknown amount of their salary. Because most Americans aren't nearly as wealthy as members of Congress.
The median net worth of members of Congress was $966,001 in 2011, according to an analysis by OpenSecrets.org. That's an estimated average of $856,009 for House members and $2,531,528 for senators. The same analysis found that more than 48 percent of Congress has an estimated net worth of more than $1 million.
Let's look at the flip side: In 2010, a Federal Reserve survey found that the average family net worth was $77,300, down 40 percent from the beginning of the recession in 2007. The average federal employee had a salary of $78,500 as of this year. Overall median household income in 2012 was $51,017.
So, yeah, docking the nearly $7,000 congressional gross pay of a two-week shutdown (if it goes that long) sounds rough for most Americans. But for a large number of members of Congress, that $7,000 — which is nearly 14 percent of the annual median household income — means almost nothing. That pay would mean even less if it was just kept in the mighty coffers of the U.S. government.
There's nothing inherently wrong with members of Congress being wealthier than average Americans. But for most members — including people like Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas., with an estimated net worth of up to half-a-billion dollars — donating your shutdown salary to a charity doesn't really mean much skin off your back. Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., who joins McCaul as one of the top two wealthiest members of Congress, says he already donates his entire congressional salary to charity.
Undoubtedly, generosity is something Americans would like to see from their representatives. But if a standard for working in Congress means that you should be comfortable forgoing an as-yet-unknown period of pay, then there's not much of a hope that Congress could become more economically representative of the rest of the country.
Members of Congress' reliance on outside income can also have adverse effects on politics and policy. It shouldn't be the case that, for real money, members need to look past Congress and through the revolving-door to plush lobbying gigs, as countless former members of Congress have done.
Oh, and one other thing. Changing the way Congress is paid mid-session is unconstitutional.
Here's the 27th Amendment:
No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.
There has not been an "election of Representatives" in the last week. And unless this shutdown goes on for long enough, there won't be. And really, if the shutdown went that long, congressional pay would be the least of anyone's worries.


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While you try and provide the most comfortable and safe home for your pet dog, its thick fur can be home to hundreds of tiny parasites. Dog tick and flea infestations are one of the most common issues faced by almost all pet parents. These parasites are often passed on to your pets when they are outside or come in contact with a tick infested animal. Pet parents should prioritize flea treatment for dogs when they first spot the problem. This is because, when done early, a proper flea treatment can help eradicate the parasites before it escalates into a serious infestation. The best way to keep an eye out for dog ticks is by checking the fur while combing. Excessive itchiness can also be one of the symptoms. At PetCareRx, we stock a huge arsenal of tick control products. We ensure all the products featured on our website come from reputed manufacturers. We also highly recommend you to consult a veterinarian before buying a particular product. This is because they can help you zero in on the perfect product that's best suited for your dog. No matter they recommend, you can be sure to find it on PetCareRx.
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Is the Sunshine State ready to meet George Jetson?
Some critics are calling "driverless cars" just a Jules Verne or "Jetsons"-like futuristic dream fantasy, but others are lauding the potential development as the biggest in automotive technology since the horse and buggy days.
"We may be at a historic cusp where driverless cars share the road," Edmunds.com editor Carroll Lachnit told The Sacramento Bee. "The (technological) pieces are all there."
The paper says California may be positioning itself to be a leader in self-driven cars, with MIT-trained state Sen. Alex Padilla, D-Los Angeles, introducing a bill that would make it legal for driverless cars to use public roads. The bill says (for now) that a licensed human driver would have to be in the driver's seat — and able to take the wheel at any time.
Nevada passed similar legislation last year.
Send in the Lawyers!
The real roadblocks on this crazy, driverless adventure are (of course!) legal ones.
Discovery News asked: "Who will pay if an autonomous vehicle causes a wreck — the human occupant or the company that built the software? And what about a future of driverless coupled with 'drivered' cars?"
You can quickly imagine the problems.
Many legal pundits and bloggers and crying out, "Dude, where's your sanity?" and calling any thoughts of developments on the driverless front pure "fantasy."
Plaintiff's firm blog oreillylaw.com writes, " just because the human imagination can conceive of new vehicles in which to travel doesn't mean a particular vehicle can be created in practice. Or, as in the case of Google's so-called driverless car, that it can be created to run safely anytime soon without causing too many car accidents."
Maybe it's just that no one knows who's driving this bus …


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Ancient Jewels 2
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Green V12
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Chloe S Nail Salon
Biozombie Shooter
Elsa Pregnant Checkup
Grand Police Escape
Target Zone
Elsa Frozen Mommy To Be
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Engineering Beveled Scale
by Tacro
6 in. plastic engineering scale is flat with 4 beveled edges and divided into 10, 30, 40, and 50 parts to the inch.
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ACUSON X150 Ultrasound System
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text:
Trebuchet Team Scores Big at Pumpkin-Fling, Oct. 25, 2002
[Left to right: Ryan Borden, Shawn West, and Nick Jacka, on their trebuchet, with ammunition.]
SOCORRO, N.M., Oct. 25, 2002 -- Citizens of Socorro can sleep peacefully at night, safe in the knowledge that, if a phalanx of medieval knights invades their town, students from New Mexico Tech's Mechanical Engineering Department stand ready to defend them by flinging pumpkins.
A team of Tech students placed first in their category in Estancia's Fifth Annual Pumpkin Chuckin' Contest on Oct. 19. The intrepid mechanical engineers built a trebuchet, a medieval siege engine, which flung a nine-pound pumpkin to the winning distance of 466 feet.
Shawn West, Nick Jacka, and Ryan Borden were all members of the winning team. West and Jacka did most of the construction, and Borden contributed the use of his truck to help move it. The team thanked Dr. Van Romero, vice president of research, for providing a trailer to carry the machine.
"We probably could have flung the pumpkin even farther, if our machine hadn't broken down," said West. "In a test run the night before the contest, we were able to fling a pumpkin over 600 feet. We hope to do some repairs and be able to enter the contest again next year."
A trebuchet is like a giant lever, using counterweights to fling a projectile, unlike a catapult, which uses a spring. The version built by the Tech students used a weight which falls straight down, increasing efficiency, and a sling to help project the vegetable to even greater distances.
All three students are sophomores in mechanical engineering. West is from Locust Grove, Va.; Jacka hails from Valier, Mont.; and Borden is from Minneapolis.
West acknowledged that, while building trebuchets will probably not net them a lot of job offers, the experience was good.
"We had to find the means to accomplish a goal. It was a good experience in problem-solving. Plus, if you like build stuff and weld, it's fun."


text:
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The MINI name, model names, and logo are registered trademarks of MINI, a Division of BMW of North America, LLC.
- Messages engraved on iPad are limited to two lines, 34 characters each; on iPod touch and iPod classic are limited to two lines, 29 characters each; on iPod nano and iPod shuffle, one line, 30 characters.
- Logo engraving is subject to a one-off set-up fee.
- 1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less.


text: NEWPORT CITY — A Newport contractor accused of accepting a huge overpayment from the City of Montpelier and then depositing it into his business account will pay a $10,000 fine and a $2,000 donation to the State General Fund.Dan Scott, 64, in Orleans County District Court Friday, entered a plea of no contest to "false claim greater than $500." In turn, the state dismissed two additional charges of false claim greater than $500 and a grand larceny charge of greater than $900.Scott's Construction Inc. (SCI) was working on two water projects in the City of Montpelier. The overpayment was for a project called "Bailey/Memorial 16." The project started in 2004 and concluded in 2006. SCI invoiced the city eight times from start to finish. Court records state that the administrative assistant for the City of Montpelier, Virginia Mackey, mistakenly entered the amount due SCI to be $548,110.83 instead of the amount owed of $85,774.70. Stephen Gray, from the Montpelier Public Works Department, approved the check. On or about Dec. 24, 2004, the council approved the check. The city issued the check on Dec. 22, 2004. On Dec. 23, 2004, someone from SCI picked up and deposited the check into Scott's business account.On Sept. 19, 2005, SCI scent the City of Montpelier an invoice that showed the city paid $633,885.53 when the true payment was $1,096,221.66. On May 22 2006, SCI sent the city another invoice that listed payments that totaled $748,446.71, but did not reflect the overpayment. Court records state that attorney Steve Stitzel told Lt. Thomas Hango of the Vermont State Police that SCI deposited the overpayment into its business account on Dec. 23, 2004. Court records state that on Dec. 28, 2004, $500,000 was used to pay down a line of credit for SCI.On Oct. 27, 2009, police met with Mackey who said the overpayment was a mistake. On Oct 28, 2009, Hango met with SCI employee Sherry Alger at the State Police Barracks in Derby. Alger said she contacted Tom Howell, an investigator with the Attorney General's Office, after hearing about the story on the news. Alger told Hango she remembered the overpayment. She said Scott had been stating for weeks that the company needed to show a profit and retain its bonding and keep its line of credit. Eric Montminy, controller and accountant for SCI, told Hango that Scott told him to put the check in the bank and he would deal with it when the city noticed the problem. Hango said Scott figured the city would notice the problem in the spring of 2005. Montminy didn't think things were done correctly and left the company because he didn't want to be with SCI when the City of Montpelier discovered the error.Court records state that Scott had Montminy create a miscellaneous job in which to record the overpayment. The overpayment made the company look profitable for the year when it actually wasn't. This prevented the company from losing its bonding and line of credit.Gray told Hango the overpayment was a mistake. On Dec. 21, 2009, Hango met with Montpelier City Manager William Fraser to determine if city officials had hidden or inappropriately kept information from the public regarding the debt. Fraser presented Hango with paperwork that stated overpayment to SCI was discovered Oct. 11, 2006. On Dec. 29, 2006, Scott signed a promissory note to the city for the full amount due but wasn't able to pay the money back.On Dec. 8, 2010, Hango left Scott a voice mail message to contact him. Two days later Hango received a voice mail message from Attorney David Sleigh who indicated he represents Scott who would be invoking his right to remain silent. Assistant Attorney General Ultan Doyle told Judge Howard VanBenthuysen that Montpelier's insurance company reimbursed the city. A companion civil case has been on hold pending the outcome of the criminal case. Doyle believes the insurance company is seeking reimbursement for its payout. That case is in Washington Superior Court.Scott paid $6,000 toward the fine Friday and will pay the balance within 45 days.


text: Established in the twenties, Italian footwear and leather goods brand Tod's has a reputation for fine craftsmanship and sourcing the very best fabrics. The result is a sought-after line of footwear and accessories, loved by fans across the globe. The brand's range of flats incorporates the classic style of suede loafers and leather driving shoes, as well as ballet flats and mocassin loafers. Distinguished by its color palette and prints, the label's flats are a day-to-day must-have.


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2011: Won her second national title when she took first place in the NCAA Women's Saber Championship…defeated Princeton's Eliza Stone 15-12 in the final bout to become the first Duke fencer in school history to win two national championships…was tied 12-12 with Stone in the final before scoring three straight points to secure the win…sat in fifth place on the final day of the NCAA Championships, but won nine straight bouts in the round-robin segment to jump into second place and into the medal rounds…named All-America for the third straight year…honored with the Duke Board of Trustees' "Board Resolution Award"...named to ACC Academic Honor Roll...only the second NCAA women's fencer to win two saber championships…went 66-3 for Duke in the regular season and became the women's program's all-time wins leader…won the Atlantic/South Regional for the third straight year…one of Duke's five recipients of the Duke Strength & Conditioning Award…named Academic All-District III second team…an Academic Honor Roll selection for the third straight year…helped the Duke women's saber team set a record for wins with a 22-1 record…the Duke women also set a team record with 17 victories and a 17-6 record.
2010: Took second in the NCAA Women's Saber Championship...named All-America for the second straight year...first fencer in Duke history to claim two top-two finishes at the NCAA Championships...at 2010 championships, went 22-2 in opening round-robin, defeated St. John's Dagmara Wozniak 15-7 before falling to Harvard sophomore Carolina Vloka 15-13 in the final...match with Vloka was rematch of the 2009 NCAA Women's Saber Final...led all women's fencers at the NCAAs in total touches, fewest touches received and touch differential...took first place in the Atlantic/South Regional for the second straight year...lost only one bout during the regular season to finish 72-1...improved her career winning percentage to .977...led Duke women's saber squad to a 19-4 record, the best in school history...did not lose a match over Duke's final three regular season meets...went 15-0 at the season-opening Philadelphia Invitational...posted a 27-1 record at the Northwestern Duals...went 12-0 at the Duke Invitational...led all Duke fencers in regular-season wins...named to the ACC Academic Honor Roll for the second straight year.
2009: Became the second fencer in Duke history to win a NCAA Championship, taking first place in saber...lost just one of her 25 bouts during her run to the NCAA Championship... her +77 touch differential at Nationals was the highest of any fencer, men or women, in any division...went 53-2 for the saber squad...posted a winning record in all four meets, including undefeated records in three meets...went 18-0 at the Penn Duals...went 15-0 at the MIT Meet...finished 14-2 at the Princeton Duals...ended the regular season with a 6-0 showing at the Duke Home Meet...named to the ACC Academic Honor Roll.
Prep: Won the bronze medals in the team and individual sabre events at the 2008 Olympics Games in Beijing, China ... entered the individual competition seeded No. 2 and defeated Spain's Araceli Navarro 12-7, Hungary's Orsolya Nagy 15-5 and Tunisia's Azza Besbes 15-14 to advance to the semifinals ... fell to US teammate Mariel Zagunis 15-11 in the semis before defeating Russia's Sofiya Velikaya 15-14 in the bronze medal match ... helped the top-seeded US sabre squad defeat France 45-38 five days later to win the bronze medal in the team sabre competition ... won six of her nine bouts in the team competition, including two of three in the bronze medal round ... helped the same squad win the gold at the Las Vegas Grand Prix on June 20, which was the final qualifier before the 2008 Olympic Games ... is the top-ranked senior fencer in women's sabre entering her college career based on the US Fencing point standings (17,003 points) ... took first place at the 2007 Cadet World Championships ... Also took first in the Senior, Junior and Cadet World Championships in 2006 ... helped her sabre team finish first in the 2005 Senior Team World Championships.
Personal: Was home-schooled in Portland, Oregon ... the daughter of Bill and Beth Ward ... has a brother, Williams, age 22 ... plans to major in Environmental Law ... writes for the Duke student newspaper, The Chronicle.


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Tour Calendar 2019...
Few places in Europe can match the excitement of watching Estonia's amazing birdlife, at almost any time of year.
The most dangered seaduck in Europe, Steller`s Eider, is good reason to visit Estonia in Winter. The coast of our biggest island, Saaremaa, is the most important wintering area for Steller`s Eider around the Baltic Sea. These eye-catching birds arrive in December and leave around the beginning of April. The best time to observe Steller`s Eider is January and February when congregations may reach 1000 birds or even more. Birds form dense flocks where they behave synchronously, especially when diving. The most North-Easterly point in mainland, the Põõsaspea (Spitham) is usually unfrozen at the same time and holds flocks of different waterbirds – thousands of Long-tailed Ducks, Goldeneyes, Goosanders and often White-tailed Eagles nearby. Atmospheric pine forests nearby are habitat for Crested Tit, Willow Tit, Goldcrest, Hazel Grouse and Black Woodpecker. If the number of rodents is low, there are good opportunities to observe owls even on the middle of day.
Spring in Estonia begins in late March when woodpeckers start their drumming, Capercaillies become very active under the old pine forest at dusk and all the swamps and bogs resound with displaying Black Grouses at sunrise. During the birding trips, often there are mornings when 6 different species of woodpeckers can be found in one small woodland!
On shallow bays, their traditional feeding sites, there are thousands of Wooper and Bewick´s Swans and different duck species, on the fields gather tens of thousands of geese. You can hear the calls of Ural, Pygmy and Tengmal`s Owls in the forests when it gets dark, or observe rodding Woodcocks flying above you. In the middle of April, is a last chance to observe Steller`s Eiders in Estonia.
Positioned between the Finnish Gulf, the eastern coast of the Baltic Sea, and Lake Peipsi near the Russian border, the Estonian waters and coastline are the natural stepping-stones along the main route between the breeding and wintering areas for millions of Arctic waterbirds, making birdwatching in Estonia fabulous at migration time in April-May. Internationally important numbers of Red-throated and Black-throated Divers, Bewick's and Whooper Swans, Greater White-fronted Geese, Greater Scaup, Common and Velvet Scoters and Long-tailed Ducks move along the coast and in some years 300,000 Barnacle Geese are estimated to pass through. But it is not just about non-stop passage: the country's long and indented coastline, shallow and sheltered bays, straits, coastal meadows, marshes, lagoons and over 1000 islands in good natural condition are crucial feeding and stopover sites. In May, the majority of insectivorous bird species arrive as well as other rare bird species. Every birdwatcher should be ready for surprises!
Estonia is a wonderful birdwatching destination in late Spring when species that are becoming rarer in Western Europe are more easily observed. Extensive undeveloped coastal areas with wide-spread reed-beds and grasslands as well as unique untouched areas with winding rivers, vast floodplains, mires, bogs and primeval forests in the central part of the mainland are habitats for many species of breeding birds. From May to late June, after sunset, the meadows resound with the bubbling of Great Snipes – a breeding species for which Estonia is internationally important. Up to 600 males have been estimated.
At the same time, White-tailed and Lesser Spotted Eagles, Honey Buzzards and Marsh Harriers can provided good sightings, as well as Greenish, Blyth´s Reed and Barred Warbler, Penduline Tits, Citrine Wagtails and Scarlet Rosefinch. Close to bog areas, the last hours of the day are often given over to a concert by the European Nightjar. On a visit to certain grasslands, Marsh Warblers or Corncrakes´crex-crex can be heard from dusk to morning. Savi´s Warblers reel in reedbeds and on a particularly successful trip, even Booted Warblers might be heard. As the main food of the Black Stork includes all kinds of fish and amphibians, these rare birds can be seen to catch them from small forest rivers and ditches.
Estonia in the autumn is a magnificent destination for the birdwatcher who wants to see forest species together with raptors and arctic migration, with that added touch of eastern rarities. Common Chaffinch and Brambling flocks can consist of thousands of birds, also encounter large numbers of Goldcrests, Northern Wheatears and Common Starlings. In West-Estonia, wetlands are always full of life in the autumn. From early September until late October, thousands of ducks, geese and cranes use these wetlands as their last feeding and roosting grounds before their final migration to the wintering sites.
The largest numbers of Red-throated Diver, Greater Scaup, Barnacle and Bent Geese and Velvet Scoter pass through at this time. Among the migrants there is always a chance to find a rare White-billed Diver, or some other rarity such as Grey Phalarope. Hiiumaa and Saaremaa islands are excellent sites to locate one or two exciting eastern species – perhaps Yellow-browed or Pallas's Warblers. Matsalu National Park is also well known as one of the most important Crane concentration area in Autumn. As many as 20 thousand birds gathering around the bay and feed in adjacent fields before moving to their wintering grounds in Spain and North-Africa or Algeria and Tunisia. Following the masses of Cranes flying in on a golden evening or out on a misty morning from their roosting places, is an unforgettable experience. The last week of September is the best time to explore this exiting performance, combined with the most vibrant autumn colours.
Did you know?
We are happy to present a new opportunity for individuals to visit Western Estonia with our help. We have the expertise to discuss your requirements and arrange suitable accommodation and a rental car for your itinerary. Pickup of rental car is available on arrival at Tallinn (or Riga) Airport Europcar office. In the vehicle there is a general information and map of Estonia, rules of protected species and areas, brochures of Western Estonia nature reserves and directions how to find overnight places confirmed and paid for beforehand. Rental car return will be specified at the time of pickup. We can also provide expert advice from a local birdguide on searching for rare species, and this is available on request. Read more...
Client comment / Individual tour in April 2011
Copyright 2003-2014 Kumari Reisid OÜ For more information: +372 477 8214, +372 5349 6695, email@example.com


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Wheeler recovering after heart surgery
Nevada District 39 Assemblyman Jim Wheeler was released from Carson Tahoe Regional Medical Center on Monday after he underwent heart surgery on Saturday.
Reports circulated earlier in the day that Wheeler had suffered a life-threatening heart attack proved to be inaccurate.
"On my way home now," he reported on his Twitter feed around lunchtime. "Roto Rooter worked great. Feel like I'm 30 years old again."
According to his campaign, Wheeler, a Ruhenstroth resident, awoke with chest pains on Saturday morning.
He underwent angioplasty and had two stents implanted to open partially blocked arteries. Cardiologist Dr. Nathan Ho said there didn't appear to be any damage to Wheeler's heart and indicated that the assemblyman should be back to his normal schedule in about a week, according to his campaign manager Steve Donahue.
Ho said that members of his Carson-Tahoe Cardiology Group determined Wheeler was well enough to be released early Monday.
Wheeler thanked Ho and the hospital cardiac-catheterization staff.


text:
freenode/#lisp - IRC ChatlogSearch
5:48:21 sthalik hey
5:48:51 beach Hello sthalik.
5:49:22 sthalik did anything functionally a standard "extension" happen in the last few years?
5:49:42 beach An extension to the Common Lisp standard? No.
5:50:04 sthalik well, it's not like one's obliged to use-package '#:cl
5:50:21 beach I don't understand.
5:50:36 sthalik things like generic sequences
5:50:59 asarch Is there any way to know what a package is actually exporting?
5:51:00 beach Yes, but I don't understand your first question. Mainly because I don't understand the grammar of the sentence.
5:51:11 beach asarch: Sure.
5:51:23 asarch How?
5:51:37 beach clhs do-external-symbols
5:51:37 specbot http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm
5:51:59 sthalik beach, there was this basic idea that the standard's immaculate, and it doesn't need anything new ever, at all
5:52:20 sthalik then there was NAMED-READTABLES being made, but then I quit
5:52:37 beach Oh, so you want to know what happened after that?
5:52:45 beach sthalik: Lots of stuff.
5:52:50 beach For example first-class global environments.
5:53:04 sthalik we've already had a portable code walker, didn't we?
5:53:24 sthalik but you mean something else
5:53:24 beach I don't see the relation.
5:53:31 beach http://metamodular.com/environments.pdf
5:54:07 beach sthalik: Also, fast portable sequence functions: http://metamodular.com/sequence-functions.pdf
5:54:35 beach sthalik: And fast generic dispatch: http://metamodular.com/generic-dispatch.pdf
5:55:07 beach But I guess you want to know only about new features.
5:55:16 beach So forget about the last two.
5:56:01 sthalik no, these are significant in itself
5:56:38 buffergn0me beach: Those three are really cool
6:06:02 beach buffergn0me: Thanks.
6:16:40 sthalik is SICL in use?
6:16:49 beach It is not finished, so no.
6:17:19 beach But the Cleavir compiler framework is used.
6:17:33 beach Now it has three clients: SICL, Clasp, and CLISP.
6:18:12 sthalik that's good to hear
6:18:26 sthalik are there provably-exhaustible patterns now?
6:18:50 beach I don't know what that means.
6:19:20 sthalik beach, having passed some datum to the pattern-matching macro, have the compiler guarantee that all cases are taken care of
6:19:37 beach Ah, OK.
6:21:43 phoe sthalik: for what kinds of "patterns"?
6:22:05 phoe as in pattern matching? that would be a question to the trivia/optima libraries
6:22:47 sthalik phoe, yeah but provable exhaustibility
6:24:31 sthalik optima throws a runtime error in the non-exhaustibility case. that's disappointing.
6:25:48 sthalik beach, thank you for the info and links
6:26:46 aeth You can define a member type with a custom macro that also defines a custom ecase. The custom ecase can verify that every member in the member type foo is a clause in the foo-ecase macro and only members of that member type foo. At compile time. Afaik. It doesn't sound particularly hard, either.
6:26:59 beach Anytime!
6:27:09 sthalik (I remember removing all dwarf-eh sections from built programs)
6:27:13 aeth Now, that's just a tiny part of the problem, but I think the basic solution form would hold. Generate a function and a macro in a macro, and call that function in the macro to verify that the macro is valid
6:28:02 sthalik aeth, compilers like SBCL have inference done on the matched datum. can you access that?
6:28:49 sthalik e.g. assume some generic datum passed in, SBCL will assume there's no contradiction
6:28:54 aeth I don't think you can access SBCL's type inference. At least, I haven't seen a library do that. You'd have to use type declarations if you can't.
6:29:24 sthalik aeth, can a pattern-matching library like that access, say, CHECK-TYPE or DECLARE TYPE?
6:30:06 aeth specialization-store, an otherwise wonderful library for type-based generic functions, cannot access anything other than type declarations from DECLARE as well as FTYPE declarations afaik.
6:30:22 aeth If you haven't seen it, this is the library. https://github.com/markcox80/specialization-store/
6:30:35 aeth It uses https://github.com/Bike/introspect-environment
6:31:03 sthalik aeth, but a pattern-matching library won't infer (or access the info from the compiler) whether the pattern is exhaustible, will it?
6:32:32 aeth I don't think there's any more information available at compile time than the information that's in introspect-environment, but I could be wrong. If there is, it would be incredibly non-portable.
6:33:14 aeth I'm guessing there isn't more because there are libraries that could benefit from more.
6:34:00 sthalik I agree, about the lack of common denominator across compilers
6:34:24 Shinmera You can do more, but it is highly implementation specific.
6:34:49 sthalik then it's SB-PATTERN-MATCHING, sort of ruins the mood
6:35:44 sthalik sorry, I'm being a pain in the butt on purpose, but the point stands nonetheless :|
6:36:25 aeth If someone could port some of SBCL's behavior to CCL, it would no longer become implementation specific!
6:36:34 aeth (Or vice versa)
6:37:09 sthalik or maybe do an inference library
6:37:24 sthalik in the type-reconstruction fashion, of course
6:41:07 aeth sthalik: What do you have in mind? Can you put some invalid code in a pastebin that you wish would work?
6:44:59 sthalik aeth, rather, what's potentially recognized as valid that ought be guaranteed recognized as invalid
6:45:30 sthalik progn (+ datum expr_1) (aref datum . rest)
6:46:22 aeth I think SBCL would catch that.
6:46:27 sthalik yes, it would
6:47:18 sthalik but it's not guaranteed, thus a pattern-matching library can't guarantee that
6:47:47 sthalik you know how well doing matches structures program flow?
6:49:02 sthalik now it's mainstream, C# took the good bits from F#. I had a brief stint with F#.
6:49:53 sthalik you remember Jon Harrop on cll?
6:52:01 sthalik damn arrogant guy was right so often
6:52:29 aeth oh comp.lang.lisp
7:00:44 lieven ACTION must have missed the many times Harrop was right. The arrogant part is spot on.
7:03:04 sthalik lieven, people engaging in the arguments on Lisp's side made a straw man out of type systems so Harrop had an easy time
7:04:27 aeth What was the argument? If I read it, it was so long ago that I don't recall
7:05:06 sthalik aeth, Lisp side: type systems peak at C89. pattern matching doesn't improve program flow
7:05:56 aeth huh? CL has some types that are only recently fashionable, like (or null foo)
7:06:08 sthalik aeth, DEFTYPE can't compare
7:06:52 sthalik I don't remember the syntax but this is invalid, as per stack overflow:
7:07:39 sthalik deftype lets-crash (t) '(cons t (or null lets-crash))
7:07:50 jackdaniel sthalik: unless it is a type based on `satisfies', then function associated with it may compare object with anything
7:08:30 aeth sthalik: The built in typed conses are... lacking in many ways. However, most implementations now (or hopefully soon) enforce :type in slots on structs, so you can create your own typed cons.
7:08:31 jackdaniel or did I misunderstood the sentence?
7:08:32 jackdaniel hum
7:08:41 sthalik jackdaniel, recursive type definitions are explicitly disallowed
7:08:42 aeth Typed conses are pretty trivial to write, only a few hundred lines.
7:08:59 aeth (Oh, my implementation started at a few dozen and it'll probably end at a thousand)
7:09:33 sthalik aeth, did you go for arbitrary-length typed lists?
7:09:43 lieven the lisp side argument was mostly that lisp is a dynamic language and that so far attempts to mesh a static type system with it are clumsy.
7:10:10 aeth sthalik: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/blob/93ddd7250aba57a22817defadf6cc45176109926/util/util.lisp#L402-463
7:10:32 aeth It's getting increasingly messy, though, so I might use inline specialization-store specializations instead of prefixes.
7:11:17 aeth The core of it is just a three line defstruct to have a car of type and a cdr of (or null type-cons)
7:11:37 aeth Yes, it's not as powerful as a Lisp cons and is only for lists. A separate kind of cons could be created for trees that has less guarantees.
7:12:10 aeth An early version was benchmarked to only be a 30% performance loss in SBCL, iirc.
7:13:35 aeth Now, there's lots of things about type systems that are lacking in CL, but typed conses via structs seem to be doable. Probably even immutable ones with :read-only, although probably not useful without the language itself optimizing them
7:13:36 sthalik tag bits vs type info
7:14:35 sthalik technically one can "freeze" a definition but then it's the "sufficiently smart compiler" fallacy
7:17:08 sthalik aeth, how much can the compiler infer in practice?
7:17:27 aeth I do think that if CL has a weakness it's in its limited set of collections available, especially lacking in immutability and non-generic versions (except for specialized arrays).
7:18:26 aeth e.g. If CL had built-in hash tables that could only hold type foo, then the compiler would know on the GETHASH what the type is (if it knew the type of the hash table), which would remove a lot of declare/the/check-type/etc.
7:18:50 sthalik lieven, there was plenty of ignorance on modern type systems on the Lisp side
7:19:38 sthalik aeth, OTOH arrays with element-type are good about not boxing
7:20:15 aeth Right, I just which :element-type would work on more things and in more make-foos
7:20:26 aeth That would be 90% of the way to making CL "modern" imo.
7:20:33 sthalik yeah, not user-defined types :|
7:21:21 aeth One problem with :element-type is that you can't e.g. store (integer 0 10), it'll round it to probably (integer 0 15) or something.
7:21:35 sthalik pack bits are worse
7:21:50 aeth Sure, internally, it should round it, but it would be nice if it actually remembered you wanted to store (integer 0 10) so the type information isn't lost across the function boundary.
7:22:17 sthalik so much is lost across the function boundary
7:23:29 aeth SBCL has sb-ext:*derive-function-types* which when enabled allows the non-standard behavior of assuming that the ftype of a function will never change.
7:24:44 aeth It's good to have that option, but you still lose information in data structures like hash-tables and lists
7:24:48 sthalik what's the purpose of statically-knowing the element type being fixnum between 0 and 10?
7:25:08 aeth sthalik: Overflow
7:25:42 aeth If for some reason you add (- most-positive-fixnum 20) or something, it knows it stays as a fixnum and so uses much faster arithmetic
7:26:17 sthalik aeth, at some point we'd grow a tree shaker too
7:26:27 sthalik I'm all for it
7:26:31 aeth e.g. (defun foo (x) (declare ((integer 0 10) x)) (+ (- most-positive-fixnum 10) x))
7:26:43 aeth If you disassemble that on SBCL you get good disassembly.
7:27:16 sthalik what if you boilerplate-declaimed ftype and so on?
7:27:32 sthalik is it any different than the extension?
7:27:50 sthalik not that I'm partial for the boilerplate or anything!
7:28:51 aeth I personally have a define-function macro, so in my game engine I would write it as (define-function foo ((x (integer 0 10))) (+ (- most-positive-fixnum 10) x))
7:29:32 sthalik wow, time for coffee, then pepper you with questions
7:29:45 aeth Usually SBCL does a good job at deriving the return type and I don't think the other implementations have an ftype so I don't care about supporting return types. At some point I'd support it as an option
7:30:36 aeth But I think that would require a third generated defun so I have been procrastinating that
7:33:15 sthalik is a code walker with shadowed COMPILE remotely sensible?
7:35:24 sthalik now that I think of, the argument-environment bits for a walker aren't even necessary
7:36:12 sthalik aeth, how is GC for soft-realtime games? do you dynamic-extent the closures?
7:37:17 aeth sthalik: Personally, I preallocate everything that I can and use dynamic-extent on the rest. This is a bit... eccentric and no one else in #lispgames has a game loop style remotely as restrictive as this.
7:38:20 aeth This is for the engine's game loop only, though. I don't think I'd ever finish anything if I tried to use this style for the whole program.
7:38:46 sthalik you mean for the render tick or for the update tick?
7:39:08 sthalik do you have an asset-loading thread?
7:39:34 sthalik from my experience, consing in the render tick is suicide
7:40:18 shrdlu68 ACTION wonders what the guys over at #lispgames are building.
7:40:32 aeth Everything called from zombie-raptor/core/window::game-loop doesn't cons in SBCL. It's too hard to profile other implementations for this, and possibly impossible even if I could profile them.
7:41:14 aeth (Obviously if I loaded assets while the game loop was running I wouldn't be able to keep this restriction to this extreme anymore.)
7:41:55 sthalik that's not completely true
7:42:28 aeth In CL it might be true, though.
7:42:39 sthalik some FFI decompression code won't trigger CL collections
7:43:15 aeth I currently only FFI SDL and OpenGL, and I'd like to keep it that way.
7:43:31 sthalik then what about your image assets?
7:43:55 sthalik ah, SDL_image
7:44:07 aeth The way my engine is structured, it doesn't even load images! I have loaded images before in some of my unpublished tests, but I feed in the texture assets to the make-window function.
7:44:45 sthalik it all gave me a horrible idea.
7:45:12 sthalik why not jump-start the game project in Lisp
7:45:41 sthalik it's not like proper type derivation is even necessary
7:48:04 sthalik in multiple C++ projects I've hit a roadblock where there's a decent amount of top-down design that can't go away
7:53:06 aeth sthalik: What game project?
7:53:20 sthalik even at this point there's no remote equivalent of lexical non-local return in fancy static languages
7:53:33 sthalik I miss it more than even macros
7:54:16 sthalik aeth, what good are games if they're just iterative improvements? if it's ever done, it must transgress boundaries and do what was thought to be not feasible
7:55:06 sthalik aeth, Falcon 4.0 included a persistent ground/air war simulation. post-mortem interviews explained "we didn't know any better"
7:55:47 sthalik so why not an RPG-alike with decent Falcon 4.0 influence. remember Ultima 7?
7:56:13 sthalik these professions not just window dressing, but something that uses resources.
7:56:52 sthalik in the end, task it good enough to prevent everyone from dying out of thirst.
7:57:24 aeth I think the limiting factor is normally art. When the game devs don't care about art (e.g. Dwarf Fortress) they can do ridiculous things
7:58:01 sthalik aeth, bootstrap using a Qt window with unicode/24-bit color and tooltips
7:58:03 aeth On the other hand, when something's AAA photorealistic, everything is so expensive to make *and* you don't want to increase the risk by venturing too far from the formula
7:58:27 sthalik the final plan is to do isometric, at least Arcanum-level
7:59:13 sthalik I've done some baked sprites in Max, but then the amount of props is just too much
7:59:40 sthalik lamps, bookshelves, beds, name it
8:00:32 aeth I plan on doing space games, at least for now. Space is mostly empty. No, even more empty than that.
8:00:35 sthalik Fallout-or-bust, an absolute prohibition on perspective projection
8:00:56 sthalik aeth, read on Rogue System. it was also to be inspired by Falcon 4.0.
8:01:50 sthalik there's a modern maintained F4 derivative based on stolen code. current copyright holders allow it as a gentleman's agreement.
8:02:50 sthalik in fact it's in their own best interest.
8:04:20 aeth We should probably take this to #lispgames before someone complains
8:04:26 sthalik okay
8:04:42 aeth (this is the strictest lisp channel as far as topic enforcement goes)
9:36:14 p_l lol @ strictest...
9:49:07 aeth p_l: Well, #lispcafe does a very bad job at enforcing off-topicness and is often about Lisp.
9:49:24 p_l :D
10:46:46 thekolb Xach: I have this weird situation where a dependency wants asdf3 but my quicklisp has asdf2? I did update-client but that didn't upgrade asdf?
10:47:20 thekolb (don't ask me how I ended up with a dependency that wants asdf3 in the first place, good question though)
10:51:45 Shinmera Quicklisp only ships ASDF2.
10:51:59 Shinmera Update your implementation or download a recent ASDF
10:52:22 Shinmera Also lots of dependencies require ASDF3 nowadays (for instance: all of my libraries)
10:54:15 thekolb I am running the latest CCL from Nov2017?!
10:54:57 thekolb why do I not have asdf3 (-:
10:55:06 thekolb something wrong with my installation I suppose
10:56:05 thekolb MichaelRaskin: any reason why the NixOs ccl wouldn't come with asdf3?
11:00:19 MichaelRaskin I think the Nix package ships whatever upstream ships.
11:00:42 jackdaniel thekolb: asdf is not part of the standard (given how it constantly changes that would mean that our standard is progressing!). You may download lastest asdf relase, compile it and put (load …) in your .cclrc before loading quicklisp
11:00:53 jackdaniel that will give you whichever asdf you want to have
11:01:15 jackdaniel you may compile it with (compile-file "asdf.lisp")
11:01:25 MichaelRaskin Nixpkgs has various Lisp wrappers, these do use ASDF3
11:10:26 Xach thekolb: clozure cl has asdf 3!
11:19:36 thekolb MichaelRaskin: the ccl package on NixOS is broken (doesn't set CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY)
11:21:33 MichaelRaskin Hm, we already set CCL_RUNTIME
11:21:49 MichaelRaskin What should CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY be in addition?
11:22:09 MichaelRaskin Ah, it's only build-time
11:22:20 thekolb MichaelRaskin: CCL_RUNTIME has no effect on ccl whatsoever and seems to be a variable introduced by the Nix expression for referencing the kernel
11:22:40 MichaelRaskin Shoud CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY point to the copied root?
11:23:00 thekolb MichaelRaskin: CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY is a variable used by ccl to refer t its installation destination
11:23:00 thekolb yes
11:23:08 thekolb see scripts/ccl
11:23:33 MichaelRaskin Hmmm. Maybe scripts/ccl should be also wrapped or symlinked into bin/
11:23:46 thekolb MichaelRaskin: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/blob/master/scripts/ccl64
11:24:55 thekolb MichaelRaskin: Not really, you should make sure that $(which ccl) sets CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY appropriately and execs the kernel
11:25:04 thekolb the scripts are more of an example IMHO
11:25:57 thekolb I.e., set CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY in https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/release-18.03/pkgs/development/compilers/ccl/default.nix#L79
11:26:16 thekolb (and make sure it execs)
11:26:31 MichaelRaskin I think (require :asdf) does work with the current CCL package
11:26:46 MichaelRaskin Any simple test case to check that the fix works?
11:27:11 MichaelRaskin Yes, L79 is my plan
11:28:59 thekolb MichaelRaskin: ccl -e "(print (getf *features* :asdf3))" -e "(quit)"
11:30:29 thekolb or alternatively ccl -e "(quit (or (getf *features* :asdf3) 1))"
11:30:50 MichaelRaskin You meant find, not getf, right?
11:31:38 thekolb yes right^^
11:31:48 thekolb also --no-init otherwise...
11:31:50 MichaelRaskin env -i $(test-build -test ccl)/bin/ccl -e "(require :asdf)" -e "(print (find :asdf3 *features*))" -e "(quit)"
11:31:54 MichaelRaskin Does say :asdf3
11:32:10 MichaelRaskin (pay no attention to my debug wrapper for nix-build)
11:32:28 thekolb ccl -n -e "(quit (or (find :asdf *features*) 1))"
11:32:44 thekolb try this one
11:32:44 MichaelRaskin Works the same with or without CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY
11:33:00 thekolb I suspect you load asdf in your .ccl-init
11:33:15 MichaelRaskin If I don't pre-require :asdf, it is not found — again, with or without CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY
11:33:54 MichaelRaskin I don't have .ccl-init
11:34:11 MichaelRaskin I did paste the line that does pre-require :asdf
11:34:48 MichaelRaskin Wait a minute
11:34:56 MichaelRaskin Do you use stable channel for Nixpkgs?
11:35:07 thekolb yes
11:35:52 MichaelRaskin CCL 1.11.5 in master includes ASDF3 (even without CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY variable set), maybe stable has an older one?
11:38:47 thekolb MichaelRaskin: other things will break if CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY isn't set properly
11:39:19 MichaelRaskin Yes, and I have the change and I want to test one of these things before pushing to master
11:40:46 MichaelRaskin To check if I have made some silly mistake that makes the change useless
11:49:02 unanimousarc Hello, new person here, if I invoke (ql:quickload x) will that package remain installed for future sessions?
11:49:11 thekolb MichaelRaskin: I did nix-env -f https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/archive/master.tar.gz -i ccl and ccl -n -e "(ignore-errors (require 'asdf))" -e "(quit (or (find :asdf3 *features*) 1))"; echo $?
11:49:14 Xach unanimousarc: no
11:49:19 thekolb (no asdf)
11:49:36 Xach unanimousarc: well, it's a bit more subtle than that
11:49:38 Shinmera unanimousarc: It will remain /downloaded/ on disk, but not /loaded/
11:49:46 unanimousarc Xach: so I need to put the (ql:quickload) in my sbcl-init.lisp ?
11:49:48 Xach unanimousarc: shinmera is right
11:49:50 MichaelRaskin thekolb: I think CCL defaults to the image location if CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY is unset; given the details of the Nix package that seems to mean the variable is irrelevant
11:49:55 phoe unanimousarc: quicklisp fetches the dependencies from the network and then invokes ASDF to load the system into memory.
11:49:59 MichaelRaskin Let me check with a fresh user and nix-env
11:50:00 Xach unanimousarc: there are many options, that's one
11:50:10 phoe the former is persistent, the latter needs to be done after each reload of the Lisp image.
11:50:26 unanimousarc Okay cool, thanks
11:50:36 phoe you can theoretically save the resulting Lisp image and then reload that one, but it's not commonly done during development - better to just #'ql:quickload things again.
11:56:17 MichaelRaskin thekolb: (quit :asdf3) doesn't work, a true if is needed there
11:57:06 MichaelRaskin If you run «which ccl», do you actually get the version in the profile? If you just run CCL, what version is reported?
12:03:20 thekolb MichaelRaskin: yes
12:05:22 thekolb MichaelRaskin: Can you still not reproduce this?
12:06:06 MichaelRaskin Well, in a fresh test account I use your installation command (well, with -p, I have a complicated non-default setup) — it gives CCL which loads ASDF3
12:08:53 thekolb I don't know what else to tell you...
12:10:01 thekolb I have /nix/store/32xnrnrf399nxf616fxihx00qi6xb4mv-ccl-1.11.5 and its broken
12:10:13 MichaelRaskin Well, I could try to pastebin a nix-expression that imports from a fixed revision and checks CCL in build-time — failure-or-success of Nix builds is less environment-dependent than installation
12:10:15 MichaelRaskin Ah!
12:11:38 MichaelRaskin I have the same path and it is not broken when I try to test it
12:12:10 thekolb If I run ccl -n and do (require 'asdf) I get an error
12:12:25 thekolb is your pwd the ccl source tree by any chance?^^
12:12:34 MichaelRaskin Definitely not
12:12:37 phoe thekolb: what kind of error?
12:13:27 MichaelRaskin Does this also error: env -i /nix/store/32xnrnrf399nxf616fxihx00qi6xb4mv-ccl-1.11.5/bin/ccl -n -e '(require :asdf)'
12:15:11 thekolb Ah!
12:15:17 thekolb it doesn't
12:15:31 MichaelRaskin And the same without env -i ?
12:16:25 thekolb omg I'm sorry, apparently there is a bogus CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY in my environment
12:18:16 MichaelRaskin Heh
12:18:47 MichaelRaskin That's why I sometimes test in an empty user
12:33:47 v0|d nix-shell --pure might help.
12:34:08 v0|d no need for a new user.
12:44:08 MichaelRaskin v0|d: until I am reproducing a nix-env invokation
13:12:56 AeroNotix What's the cheapest / easiest way to represent infinity that allows me to compare it with numbers.
13:13:20 AeroNotix I.e. I want to have a representation of infinite that I can do things like (< 123 +infinity+)
13:13:30 AeroNotix (the above would return T
13:13:32 AeroNotix )
13:14:04 Shinmera well, there's the IEEE float infinities, but they're not part of the standard :/
13:14:27 Shinmera I've been meaning to make a portability library for that
13:15:14 AeroNotix yeah well get on that
13:15:18 AeroNotix it's _important_
13:15:20 AeroNotix jk
13:15:32 Shinmera Jeez I just published two libraries today
13:15:35 Shinmera But fine
13:15:42 AeroNotix Shinmera: only two?
13:15:45 Shinmera Yes
13:15:48 AeroNotix slacking
13:16:11 Shinmera In Trial I've been doing https://github.com/Shirakumo/trial/blob/master/toolkit.lisp#L32-L38 so far
13:16:27 Shinmera I'll see if I can be bothered to do a proper implementation survey later today
13:16:34 Shinmera Right now I'm starving so I'll grab some grub
13:17:12 AeroNotix cool
13:18:37 v0|d AeroNotix: https://paste.debian.net/1037400/
13:20:03 AeroNotix v0|d: half of those are unbound for me.
13:20:31 v0|d try (apropos 'most-)
13:20:42 v0|d maybe you'll get different ones.
13:23:36 AeroNotix v0|d: I used the sb-ext ones for now. I'll find something more portable later. It's only for a debugging thing right now anyway
13:37:44 foom2 ** NICK foom
13:48:54 unanimousarc anyone here got a lisp related blog?
13:49:32 random-nick well, there's a blog aggregator at planet.lisp.org
13:50:10 unanimousarc I'll take a look, but I would prefer personal recommendations :)
13:54:36 Shinmera unanimousarc: It's not a recommendation, but here's mine. http://blog.tymoon.eu/tagged/common%20lisp
13:55:38 unanimousarc Shinmera: thanks ;)
14:15:26 LiamH AeroNotix: If you don't mind loading a foreign library, GSLL has it: (< 1.0 gsl:+positive-infinity+) => T
14:18:05 sjl_ unanimousarc: I've written some CL-related entries on mine http://stevelosh.com/blog/
14:18:28 unanimousarc sjl_: thanks i'll take a look
14:19:56 unanimousarc sjl_: definitely checking out that chip8 series
14:38:42 Xach ACTION must really fix his planet lisp twitter gateway again
14:44:58 Shinmera Speaking of twitter, there were some API deprecations regarding direct messages that I haven't had time to fix in Chirp.
14:45:14 Shinmera Don't know when I can be bothered to fix them either
15:00:27 drmeister With asdf - is there a way to get a tree of dependencies from a system? I have a groveler that I use for finding all files required by a system in the order that they need to be loaded.
15:00:44 Shinmera Ha ha, oh boy the CCL source for infinity-p has a comment: ; not sure this is right
15:01:00 drmeister The groveler has a function that says it returns all of the systems required by given list of systems. I think this may be what I need.
15:01:12 drmeister But I want to build the tree of dependencies.
15:01:30 drmeister I want to parallelize the building of the tree - so I need to know what it looks like first.
15:01:50 Shinmera drmeister: Sure, holy on
15:02:03 Shinmera *hold
15:02:18 drmeister If it's a linear sequence - well - then I need to put some work into splitting things out a bit to make it a tree.
15:02:48 drmeister Shinmera: Thank you - I'll keep spitting out what I'm looking for - maybe someone will have some thoughts on it.
15:03:10 pjb AeroNotix: if you want to compare with numbers, you have a big problem: numbers are not ordered!
15:03:22 drmeister Then I'll need to time how long each system needs to build it - then I want to organize the build so that it takes as little time as possible using multiple processes.
15:03:30 pjb AeroNotix: in lisp, numbers include complex numbers, and complex numbers are not ordered.
15:03:54 Shinmera drmeister: https://github.com/Shirakumo/radiance/blob/22cdcde8be60f5e49e90a59f7375ceea130358c7/migrate.lisp#L131-L150
15:04:13 drmeister Basically - I want to parallelize the building of a large collection of asdf systems so they build as quickly as possible. Given that POIU is MIA for current versions of ASDF.
15:04:22 drmeister AFAIK
15:04:30 pjb AeroNotix: then if you want to restrict yourself to real, then in lisp we have most-positive-long-float that is bigger than all floats, but not to all integers.
15:05:03 AeroNotix I just need something bigger than all integers
15:06:36 pjb AeroNotix: for integers, there's no such value.
15:06:43 drmeister Shinmera: Thank you - I'll give it a whirl.
15:07:01 pjb AeroNotix: at a given time, there's a maximum representable integer, but since it may depend on the available memory, it may grow later.
15:07:19 pjb AeroNotix: so you have to use a symbol, and implement your own comparisons.
15:07:45 AeroNotix Okay
15:08:10 pjb (defun inferior (a b) (or (eql :-infinity a) (eql :+infinity b) …))
15:12:08 pjb AeroNotix: you may also shadow < <= etc. calling cl:< cl:<= etc when you only have numbers.
15:13:02 pjb See for example: https://github.com/informatimago/lisp/blob/master/common-lisp/invoice/invoice.lisp#L366
15:13:40 pjb (not real methods, just functions, since there are 0-n arguments.
15:13:41 pjb )
15:24:09 drmeister Shinmera: Is the information about system dependencies available after I load-asd - or do I need to load-system everything?
15:24:16 drmeister I'm about to find out...
15:25:30 jackdaniel drmeister: you need to load all asd file (i.e by find-system), but there is no need to load systems into the image
15:26:13 jackdaniel it is quite problematic as it is anyway, because asd files are programs, but not as bad as being forced to load all libraries to learn their dependencies
15:26:31 drmeister Does find-system of the top asd load all dependent asd files?
15:26:44 Shinmera jackdaniel: Does ECL have something similar to sb-int:with-float-traps-masked that allows you to mask which floating point traps signal conditions?
15:26:51 jackdaniel yes
15:26:54 drmeister I'm trying to avoid doing more work than I need to do.
15:26:57 jackdaniel I mean: yes to floats
15:27:03 jackdaniel regarding asdf, I don't know
15:27:12 Shinmera drmeister: No
15:27:41 Shinmera drmeister: It only loads a system file if it has to due to :defsystem-depends-on or due to find-system
15:27:46 drmeister And I have a relationship with asdf that is characterized by timidity.
15:27:47 jackdaniel bugs everywhere http://i.imgur.com/sEgU8qk.png :)
15:28:14 drmeister jackdaniel: And your scrollbars don't work.
15:28:17 Shinmera jackdaniel: What is the functionality called in ECL? apropos is failing me.
15:28:38 drmeister ACTION has never seen a scrollbar that he hasn't tried to scroll with.
15:28:57 jackdaniel drmeister: you mean that you can't scroll a png file? :-)
15:30:22 jackdaniel Shinmera: it is obscure and not part of official API, careful
15:30:24 jackdaniel si::trap-fpe
15:30:29 Shinmera Thanks
15:30:48 Shinmera I'm building another implementation wrapper layer, so I'll take the hit :)
15:44:44 drmeister How does one redirect the ~/.cache directory so that quicklisp/asdf drop the generated code somewhere else?
15:46:51 jackdaniel drmeister: if you set XDG_CACHE_HOME (env var) it should help
15:47:14 jackdaniel also (defvar *user-cache* nil
15:47:16 jackdaniel "A specification as per RESOLVE-LOCATION of where the user keeps his FASL cache")(defvar *user-cache* nil
15:47:19 jackdaniel "A specification as per RESOLVE-LOCATION of where the user keeps his FASL cache")
15:47:24 jackdaniel ops, sorry
15:48:28 drmeister asdf/interface:*user-cache* - I see that.
15:49:33 drmeister And XDG_CACHE_HOME in asdf - thank you!
16:20:54 Shinmera AeroNotix: https://shinmera.github.io/float-features
16:23:50 phoe Shinmera: I read "infinite negativity" the first time and went "wait what"
16:24:26 Shinmera infinite negativity is my middle name
16:24:34 skidd0 you've got a long name
16:36:46 dwrngr` ** NICK dwrngr
16:54:18 theseb You can really define the entire lang in terms of about 8 primitives? Why does that seem impossible to me? Think of how complex common lisp is
16:58:14 Xach theseb: it's easy if one of the primitives is make-load-form-saving-slots.
16:58:16 Shinmera The semantics, yes. But an implementation still needs to do a lot more -- like handling OPEN, I/O, etc.
16:58:31 Xach sorry, joking around.
16:59:02 pjb theseb: you only need one primitive.
16:59:03 theseb Shinmera: aha! yes..i knew something was missing!!! All the //side effects// were not mentioned like I/O!
16:59:10 theseb Paul Graham *lied* to me
16:59:11 theseb dammit
16:59:27 theseb srsly...someone should mention that
16:59:34 pjb theseb: Von Neuman architecture only needs 1 microinstruction (conditional-move).
16:59:55 MichaelRaskin Well, if you target Plan9 you don't need many I/O primitives, and then they cover all the OS interaction…
17:00:03 pjb theseb: with lambda calculus, you can implement state and I/O by simulating the whole universe!
17:00:20 pjb theseb: this is actually how our universe comes to be.
17:02:38 pjb theseb: there's a "desire", or "universal love" or "god" that makes kinds of quantum fluctuations in the mathematical world generate random mathemathical objects. Functions and lambda calculus are actually very simple mathematical objects, and thus appear naturally, and "develop" (are "created") by themselves, until find this god lambda calculus program that decides to simulate the whole universe and to reproduce little simulatio
17:08:28 theseb pjb: that was deep
17:08:37 theseb thank i guess
17:09:34 pjb theseb: also, it's not very hard to implement a hardware simulation to do I/O in pure lambda calculus.
17:11:50 theseb pjb: imho..i think it best to just punt and define an abstract "input" and "output" primitive
17:11:52 housel tedious, but not hard
17:12:27 theseb pjb: both just accept and emit bit strings
17:12:40 pjb theseb: of course, if you want to hook to other universes, such as ours, you can always branch out to primitives implemented in another system, eg. in electrons and silicium atoms.
17:13:28 pjb (but notice the funny nature of fermions and bosons that are both just probability wave functions, ie. not any more real than lambda calculus functions).
17:13:38 theseb pjb: what the #$@#$? why are you making this so complicated? i'm suggesting a simple input and output primitive while you want to hook up to other universes!?!!? am i missing something?
17:13:57 pjb theseb: our universe is one of those other universes.
17:14:09 pjb maths is not in our universe.
17:14:26 pjb I just explained that our unvierse was in maths.
17:14:31 Shinmera Please >>##philosophy
17:15:00 pjb Well, this is this infamous question about primitives. Forget them.
17:15:16 pjb You can do metacircular definitions.
17:15:38 pjb See: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html
17:16:25 pjb Primives, like axioms, are your own totally and entirely subjective and arbitrary choice.
17:18:42 theseb pjb: i like that link....avoid english and use lispy mini-langs instead to bootstrap
17:19:27 theseb pjb: i think that is the "Lisp Way (TM)"...to define layers of langs
17:19:36 pjb or realize that lisp was created 50 years ago, and that we don't need to bootstrap anymore: just write CL in CL.
17:20:09 pjb You might need to bootstrap again if you go to Mars, and a meteor destroys all computing equipment.
17:20:33 pjb Then you will have to mine metals, build a new computer, and program it, bootstrapping, hopefully, a new lisp system.
17:20:58 theseb pjb: actually...imagine we worked in a sector where security was paramount.....i wonder if defining layers of langs somehow avoids potential security holes
17:20:59 pjb (Assuming transport with Earth is not possible anymore).
17:21:15 pjb theseb: yes, there's also this case.
17:21:39 theseb pjb: my point is...going hardcore on the math and axioms has its uses


text:
Adult Community #2
Every Sunday until May 29, 2016
10:30am – 11:45am
Sunday Morning Communities will be provided for adults. Sunday Morning Communities at NCCC are an opportunity for newcomers and members alike to cultivate relationships among one another while establishing participants in Christian content and competenices of the faith that are both common to all believers, and specific to the particular age, stages, and roles of life.
Topic: Prayer. Based on Tim Keller's Book, "Prayer: Experiencing Awe and Intimacy with God." Tim Keller's clear survey of men who have historically experienced great intimacy with God through prayer is the inspiration for a workshop type class format on prayer. Teaching will be quickly turned to discussion which will quickly be turned to in-class exercises. You will likely be challenged to pray in ways you never have prayed before as a direct response to the biblical questions, "Lord teach us to pray."
Community Shepherds: Wade & Melissa Smith and Andy & Courtney Deister
Instructor: Mark Shaw
Location: Multipurpose Room A at 10:30a.m.