text:
FITCHBURG (CBS) – It's going to be a while before things get back to normal for Judy Sanchez and her three-year-old daughter.
Last Thursday, a team of FBI agents swarmed her apartment building as part of a massive citywide drug and weapons gang raid.
Trouble is, Sanchez lives in apartment 2R.
The suspect they were after is in 2F.
At 6:04 last Thursday morning, just before Sanchez' alarm was set to go off, she heard a pounding outside her second floor apartment.
WBZ-TV's Jim Armstrong reports
"I just happened to glance over and saw this huge chainsaw ripping down the side of my door," she explains. "And I was freaking out. I didn't know what was going on."
Within moments, the chainsaw had cut through most of her door, and someone on the FBI's arrest team kicked the rest of it in.
"That's when I heard the clicking of a gun and I heard 'FBI, get down!', so I laid right on down.
And they said get your dog, so I got her and at the same time I am laying in her urine because she did pee on herself at the same time."
That dog is the family's three-month-old pit bull puppy.
Sanchez says they left her on the floor for 35 minutes, with her daughter screaming for her mommy in the other room.
"I was told not to move, so I didn't move," she tells WBZ, out of fear that she'd be shot.
Eventually the feds figured out they were in the wrong spot and they arrested the suspect they were after in the next door apartment.
Sanchez can't believe that a two-year long federal investigation ended at the wrong door.
"The looks on their faces when they knew they got the wrong door was priceless," she recalls. "They looked at each other dumbfounded."
Sanchez says another agent came by later that day to offer an apology, but it was one that Sanchez felt wasn't quite genuine.
"For me it felt routine apology, it felt like just a regular, 'I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Here's the phone number for your landlord to get reimbursed for the door, have a good day.'
And that's how I felt, like it was a smack in the face."
WOW! Almost the same thing happened to me on that same day! No chainsaw..but, around 9:30 that same morning I was scared to death by pounding on my door, and the other doors in my apt building. I thought I was about to die or something. They pounded so hard, my LOCKED door swung open. Looking for someone who did not live in my building. I tried to tell them this..but it did not matter, they didn't believe me and a team of about 8 swarmed through all the rooms in my apartment. I did not receive any apologies. I guess since they didn't use a chainsaw.. they really need to get their info straight before they go ripping through innocent peoples lives. It's terrifying.
Imagine if it were an elderly person, or somebody who had just come home recuperating from major surgery, forced to lay down on their stomachs on the stitches or if they were hooked up to a colostomy bag or something — they could become seriously or permanently hurt. Pretty scary stuff.
Imagine if that had been my house! I would have put five rounds from my S&W 38 through the door without even thinking about it as the chainsaw touched my door. Then I would have grabbed my Garrand and sent eight more 30.06 rounds their way.
They better get the address right in my neighborhood.
That's right, since no one uses a chainsaw to break down a door. I would have put several 12ga slugs into them.
This was my sentiments exactly. Once unannounced violence (since I can't "FBI" over chainsaw "WRRRRRR") enters my home, violence springs from my home. "Fear of my life already has triggered", the door is no barrier to that danger, so I cannot wait for its removal or actual entry, I am already engaged.
The whole no-knock warrant action strikes me as completely unconstitutional if considered in concert with the Second Amendment. I am just shocked that a policeman has not yet been shot by a surprised lawful gun owner in one of these "Wrong address" situations.
Clearly the police are not doing their jobs if they cannot confirm their targets before engagement. This is within the strict warrant regime (search warrant / arrest warrant / judges involvement). Can you believe these organizations think they need a FASTER, more express path for warrant approval. Looks like they need MORE diligence and rigor to me.
See Radley Balko's The Agitator on this. Plenty of cops and non-cops get killed this way (see for instance Cory Maye.)
As Balko points out, if they're going for the element of surprise because the stoners or poker players might be armed, wouldn't the chainsaw have tipped off the bad guys? Meanwhile, if they do this pre-dawn with dynamic entry, should they be surprised that the occupants can't determine if the guys breaking down their door are good guys or bad guys or bad guys claiming to be good guys?
That's why we have doorbells. At least they didn't shoot the dog, which is SOP, even if it was not a "pit bull".
Uh you idiots suggesting shooting at the chain saw would be shot dead by the feds who would give themselves all pats on the back and a congratulatory circle jerk afterword. They wouldn't even feel remorse. You are a citizen and they are the FBI you are to submit to their demands.
Citizen, not subject. There is a difference!
No… I wouldnt be shot dead. Some of us are HIGHLY trained, former Military, and Police. I PROMISE you not one man would make it into my house alive, I would be just fine, and we would eventually sort it all out. It will only take this scenario happening ONCE, and things will change. They just havent kicked in the "wrong" door yet.
@JROCK-You would most certainly be shot dead and I don't give a damn about your Marine training. The first shot you fire at a Febbie and they will swarm you until you are quite dead. John Wayne idiot!
Old and In the Way…… is lucky he didn't do what he claims he would have done, because he wouldn't be around to write his comment today. Same goes for Ed and JROCK. As big a bunch of idiots this FBI Team must be, they still would have shown up with massive fire power. Your little weapons and false bravado would probably have gotten you killed.
What if it was a person who had a gun to defend his home???
They would be dead!!!
Ummm, I'm with the guy with the gun. The dangerous part about you "they are the FBI you must submit" people is that you are going to assume that every person that enters your house is going to be a government agent. Perhaps it's from the lessons I learned in life but using a chainsaw to breach a room is not standard operating procedure.
If someone, anyone, does this to me then 8 +P 200 gr .45acp rounds are going THROUGH the door into whomever is wielding said chansaw. Whether it be some government agency, Jason Voorhees, or God himself. This is a threatening action and I would be JUSTIFIED in reacting to such actions with force. But i'm not going to roll over for some chance that it might be the gubment.
Do understand what happens when a citizen tries to defend his family and himself against unknown intruders (ie, no knock warrant swat team) everybody needs to Google "Jose Guerena"
Cliff note version:
Feds no knock wrong address and set off flash bangs.
Former marine and Iraq war veteran tell his wife to get son and hide in bedroom.
Jose grabs rifle to protect family.
Police fire 71 rounds at Jose who didn't even have the chance to remove safety
Jose allowed to bleed out for an hour an dies before area was declared safe.
All officers cleared of any wrong doing.
Move along…nothing to see here. Dead men have no rights. End of story.
To those that think a homeowner with a gun would not shoot a Fed, a lady near Pittsburgh, PA shot and killed an FBI criminal that breached her home looking for… you got it, drugs. That's ironic because the CIA, FBI, and cops are the facilitators of the drug black market. Well, not ironic. It just shows how seriously they hate competition. Unfortunately, the jurors did not understand the US Constitution nor the criminality and tyranny that is the FBI and the rest of the jack boots out of the District of Criminals; she was convicted.
Oh, and the rest of the FBI swarm that others have posted about did not shoot her dead. No knock cops should be met with a proper response.
Or imagine if the poor dog, who normally react to threats attacked the door and was killed or injured by the chain saw jerkoff. They are treating a drug offender like a dangerous mass murderer.
Idiots; all of them.!
Umm… If somebody tried to come in with a chainsaw (as mentioned, this isn't standard) They'd get at least 5 rounds of 7.62x54r rounds… and I know body armor can't stop those. They would not be having a good day.
Nagants hold 5 plus one… though pulling back on that safety is a pain in the butt! Love Nagants!
Exercising your Unalienable rights. A true American.
They are from the government. They are here to help us.
You would think the FBI would know an R from an F. After all, they spell their name with just three letters. Perhaps they write RBI or F8I by mistake from time to time, better get those smart agents back to primary school for some LEARNIN'.
Yep, 12 guage with bird shot at my place. It would have been coming thru the door.
Would've been a bunch of dead FBI agents had they did that to my house. I see a chain saw coming through my door??? I'm shooting first and asking questions later. Only problem is, once you kill one of those idiots, even in self-defense, they're not going to stop until you're dead. Be that as it may, I'll go down fighting.
The lesson to learn from Jose Guerena- when black-clad attackers enter your home unannounced, don't be caught short with a firearm on safety that hasn't been brought to bear on the intruders. Resist the threat.
For all of the "I'd shoot 'em" types here, you would most surely be killed in such a scenario, but there would be two after effects of your death.
One, there would be more publicity and attention turned against the LEO's for attacking innocent citizens, and on the next bust (if you were to kill an officer) the first guy through the door would be a lot more hesitant about charging in.
One thing that the FBI seems to miss on this whole equation is the effect it has on the public.
A while back I called the White House Comment Line, and stated for the President, that "If politicians were to act as he has, in disregarding the Constitution and selectively ignoring the laws such as the DOMA (which Obama has stated plainly he will not enforce) and the immigration laws which Obama has ignored, that back in the 1700's they would be taken out and tarred and feathered, as many were back then."
Somehow this translated (in the mind of the low IQ "burger flipper" answering the phone), into a threat against Obama's life. Four hours later I had a Secret Service Agent, an FBI agent and two uniformed local police officers at my front door demanding answers. I politely invited them in for coffee and answered all of their questions. I was cautioned by the Secret Service agent to "Watch what you say in the future."
Since I did nothing illegal in my actions but the Obama Administration still felt the need to send an intimidation team to my home, they have lost all confidence from this Career Army Veteran.
Should law enforcement need my help in the future, while I will not stand in their way in any manner, I will chose to invoke my right under the 5th Amendment to remain silent. Should I ever witness a crime in my town. Even if I see a perpetrator, commit a crime, it will be a very cold day in hell before I come forward to give any evidence to aid law enforcement in anything. I would tell them the truth if they ask, but volunteering information??? Forget it.
The next time a cop asks Mrs. Sanchez "did you see anything?" after a crime is committed in her neighborhood, I have to wonder how willing will she be to step forward and give evidence to the very same people who cut down her door and left her child screaming for 35 minutes while she was forced to lay on the floor?
I read the article above but did not see mentioned anywhere that the FBI announced themselves. If it had been me and they hadn't announced "FBI..open the door" I would have cut loose with my 20 Gauge that is loaded with 00buckshot and door busters. Chainsaw indeed…a door ram would have taken far less time. Yeah FBI…Federal Bureau of IDIOTS!
Yes, you would have taken down a few of these idiots, but there are 10 idiots waiting in line to take each idiots place. If they didn't kill you as well, you would be locked up forever for killing federal agents. If more people would do what you say they might stop doing this, but I doubt it will happen.
@Concerned Citizen: They are not capable of remorse one way or another.
Disgusting thugs, worthless scum of the Earth. Both them and those who are cheering for the gangsters.
"1984" was written by George Orwell, idiot.
Beazr, aside from your foolish suggested solution, it is also obvious you are ignorant about firearms and terminal ballistics.
beazr btw "Hollow tips" i assume you mean hollow points are a type of round engineered to cause massive tissue damage through expansion of the round on impact. A hollow point round will NOT go through a standard issue reinforced kevlar vest. The round will impact and expand extinguishing its energy before breaching the vest. To get through a kevlar vest, concrete wall, or hardened metal thicker than .25 inches you need ballistic tipped, armor piercing, or depleted rounds. If you are going to handle firearms please bother to educate yourself beforehand.
Hollow point rounds do indeed expand upon impact with solid targets, and cause massive trauma with little actual penetration.
But your assertion that breaching Kevlar requires "ballistic tipped, armor piercing, or depleted rounds" isn't quite accurate either.
"DU" or Depleted Uranium rounds are not used in small arms ammunition, in fact the smallest round containing this material is 25mm used in the gun on the Marines LAV 25 and the Army's M2/3 Bradley Fighting vehicle and Stryker troop carrier. A round of that size will penetrate a standard issue vest even using "TPT" (Target Practice Tracer) rounds made of cast aluminum, in fact the TBT round hits with such power it will obliterate the wearer and the vest with a single round. Other rounds using "DU" are the 105mm and 120mm Tank Main Gun rounds fired from the Stryker AGS and the M1 series Main Battle Tank.
"Ballistic Tipped" is something of a misnomer since it has more to do with bullet designs for accuracy than penetration. There are a variety of ballistic tipped rounds that vary from simple bullet shape modifications, to discarding sabot designs that actually strip away part of the projectile in order to make it more aerodynamic.
Armor piercing rounds are generally made of lead with copper ally jackets just like standard ball rounds but incorporate a tungsten steel tip, which is harder but lighter than lead, the combinations of the two metals gives the bullet the toughness to penetrate the target, with the momentum to drive the steel tip through the target.
As for your comparison of the rounds regarding penetration…it is more dependent on the cartridge casing than the bullet since, for example a .308 (30 caliber) projectile fired from a 7.62 NATO cartridge (aka .308 Winchester) will not penetrate as much material as an M1 U.S. Cartridge .30 Caliber (aka 30.06) because the 7.62 NATO round has less propellant charge to push it than does the M1 U.S. Cart. .30 Cal.
Sorry Bud, hollow points are for knock down power. they don't go through vest. You would need teflon coated rounds or 12ga steel sabots for a shotgun. They will go through an engine block.
"Sorry Bud, hollow points are for knock down power….."
He's probably an FBI troll, looking to incite someone. That's how they get terror arrests now days.
An unlawful arrest/action by police is an assault like any other and can be resisted like any other assault. This is common sense and the USSC has ruled that DEADLY FORCE is reasonable in these circumstances.
If this happens at my house I have a SAIGA 12 (AKA an AK47 12 gauge shotgun with a 20 round drum) for these thugs who won't be leaving the same way they arrived!
Yes, it's orwell.
And hollow "tips" will not go through ANY vest.
You show an astounding amount of ignorance; if your really do own a firearm, and not just spouting off on mommy's keyboard then get some training.
Hollow point ammo that is cast out of tin will travel 50% faster and go through both sides of class 3a body armor! So you should qualify your answers. Such as "And LEAD hollow "tips" will not go through ANY vest."
"Hollow point ammo that is cast out of tin will travel 50% faster and go through both sides of class 3a body armor! "
Really? Both sides, even?
And there are other vests than just level IIIa; the guy said ANY vest.
And not even lead hollow points have a problem if you shoot them in the face. Groin works well too. Not much armor there. And it gives their pig buddies something to think about.
Yeah, right. Good luck with those "hollow tips" more appropriately referred to as, "hollow points." You really don't get out much do you?
Good, get lost in the minutia…
Jessica, I'd also be interested in speaking to your for our radio show. email me at michaelc_100@hotmail dot com or hit me up on facebook.com/mikecann
Did they show you a warrant?
I believe that it said "Husqvarna" on it
Funny @Dave D
I actually keep my guns loaded for the opposite reason. I don't want the rounds to over penetrate and hit something behind the target.
Oh, and 1984 was required reading when I went to school. At the time we thought it was fiction.
Typical law enforcement thuggery. The use of no knock warrants by these people should not be allowed. There is no punishment for the individual officer or officers that violate your rights and they do not care how badly they terrorize you or your children. The laws need to be changed so that individual officers and their departments can be sued in civil court and prosecuted in criminal court.
Exactly! What if the resident had a gun in hand? Or even a baseball bat or a kitchen knife? Gunned down…..
In a police state, it's ok if the cops kill you.
The constitution bars exactly this brand of thuggery. 7th Ammendment guarantees us trial by COMMON LAW. This is the totality of common law, encroach on no man nor his property and meet your agreements. The constitution also limits the powers of the fed gov to what is described in the constitution. Anything more the government wants to do, they must make a constitutional amendment. Which they never do, they just ignore it because people don't know it well enough to use it to protect themselves in court. So, really, no "NEW LAWS" are necessary. We just need the whole society on the same page with the old laws AND we need to toss out all these criminal judges and politicians and ORGANIZE, town hall meeting, bar Federal Interdiction in your town regarding anything the constitution didn't give power to the fed gov.
They do an average of 50 such raids every day! You'd be AMAZED at how many times they get it wrong! This lady is just lucky that they didn't follow normal operating procedure. Otherwise her dog would have been shot "just because".
Blaine, no need for mean comments. It only reflects poorly on you.
Welcome to the Police State, Thank a Dem/Communist for this, ya I know Bush started it all, but under this Adminastration, it has gone beyond anything Bush could have thought of….
Dems or Pubs don't matter – they all do the same things, despite differing words.
The state is utterly out of control.
You do realize that Nixon and Reagan (Republicans) were two of the biggest drug warrior presidents EVER, right?
Is this the first time you have read about such a story, MDKing? This has been happening for years, throughout many presidential administrations of both parties. Don't be so naive. The shocking thing about this incident is just how "unshocking" it is. Don't believe the propaganda and attribute this type of behavior to a president because his social and economic policies are slightly different from some other president to the "left" or "right" of him. The problem is a lack of respect for human life and dignity and a 40 year old war on drugs (started by a Republica, albeit a Republican far more liberal than our current center right presiden) that has destroyed countless lives.
reagan, clinton, and obama are all puppets of the bush cartel. reagan was an actor. clinton had over 75 people killed during his political and presidential conquests. obama is the first black man. the fact that he is black is a diversion. who was deputy director of the CIA when kennedy was killed? GHW Bush. there were no western or european owned oil wells in or off the coast of vietnam before 1960. the bush's aren't nazi, they're Thule.
The time has come to organize a community defense against violent, murderous government agents.
These SOBs are literally out of control, do not consider us even to be human beings, let alone the CITIZENS who PAY THEIR DAMNED SALARIES.
They treat us with contempt and callous disregard for our lives, our fortunes and to hell with or "sacred honor".
No, fellow cowering citizens, the time has come to organize and defend ourselves against criminal gangs operating under color of law — law that increasingly is used to protect themselves from even the most basic accountability.
you are 100% correct. it is time for us to begin organizing well trained forces around this nation, and where possible, have them recognized by the county sheriff, to protect and defend citizens against these nazi's.
This was likely a secret TSA training exercise. They're probably working on merging the 2 agencies now, and the ones with IQ's lower than their height in inches, start out training on this "Fail Team Zero".
Um, that'd be George Orwell.
GEORGE ORWELL!!!! Gzeesh.
this is the war on drugs shear stupidity but this is what the American people deserve for letting this war against everyday Americans get started and for letting it continue end the war on drugs and lets do harm reduction.
@keven: You are right. the so-called war on drugs is not a "War on Drugs" per se. It is all about government taking more control and power over the citizenry.
Atleast this time someone didnt trip or stumble like the Framingham SWAT and shoot an innocent person and just say Whoops it was an accident OH Well..sucks to be you..
Oops…My bad! Morons!! and these guy care SERIOUS WEAPONS!!
If you were a homeowner It would be in serious litigation.(and you would win!)
…and pick out a REALLY NICE new door!
Without a search warrant?
Welcome to the New World Order.
We have no police civility, no rights, and thugs for law enforcement.
Soon law enforcement shooting first will be the government mantra and they will get away with it.
The coward State Attorney in the prosecutors office in Orange County Florida will not even arrest the thugs employed by Newt to break the foot of a Ron Paul supporter just for fun.
I suggest the system's thugs beware of the BELL for soon it will toll for all of them.
• Castle doctrine. If they do not announce who they area. Defend your home. If a chain saw is coming through the door, an implement of the intruder has entered your home and legally the intruder as well. There is an old saying of the Knights of old. Give the transgressor an Indian answer (if you don't know it look it up.).
• Question 1: If it was before 08:00 hrs, did they have a no knock warrant.
• Question 1: If they did have a no knock warrant, who was the idiot with a chain saw standing behind the kill zone (the door that people shoot through).
they had a no-knock warrant for another apartment, that means they had NO warrant for the apartment they did enter.
• Castle doctrine. If they do not announce who they area. Defend your home. If a chain saw is coming through the door, an implement of the intruder has entered your home and legally the intruder as well. There is an old saying of the Knights of old. Give the transgressor an Indian answer (if you don't know it look it up.).
• Question 1: If it was before 08:00 hrs, did they have a no knock warrant.
• Question 1: If they did have a no knock warrant, who was the idiot with a chain saw standing behind the kill zone (the door that people shoot through).
Sorry for spelling/grammer errors
Sorry that happened Jessica but if they got even one gun or better yet, one illegal alien it most likely saved at least one life down the road. Fitchburg is infested. These guys are putting their lives on the line to protect us from the rodents.
Again I am sorry it happened to you but if it was my neighbor dealing drugs, guns or living off the American tax payers dollars I'd be oK if they smashed down my door on accident as long they they got them.
And there in lies the problem in our once great nation. Prior to 1914, none of these things were illegal and as a consequence there were no such things as "no-knock warrants" and "forced entries" and violence was uncommon. Now they are commonplace and many people see nothing wrong with these outlandish acts of police violence. Don't worry though, as there is lots more to come with laws and executive orders like the patriot act, NDAA, and PDD51 just as examples.
I agree. It is far better to let Fitchburg continue with the gangs and drugs and rapes and thefts than it is to spend the money to attempt to bring it back to a place where its citizens can expect to live in peace and allow their children to play on the street. While we are at it – abolish the patriot act and just open the doors for the terrorists.
"While we are at it – abolish the patriot act and just open the doors for the terrorists."
Yes, please do abolish the patriot act. And abolishing the act and "opening the door" for evil terrrrists are not synonymous.
Useful idiots like you are the very reason we are turning into a police state.
Cuspid, try living in a country where terrorism is an every day occurrence. American do not have a clue what terrorism really means. As I said above, it's a pleasure to meet someone who feels his opinion is the only answer and that calling those who do not share that opinion is acceptable. Or……………..in my humble opinion, anyone who resorts to name calling does so simply because he has nothing important to say so fills his comments with dribble.
It's drivel, btw.
Someone cutting down your door with a chainsaw and drawing down on you when your are innocent is terrifying.
And do tell, how can the patriot act stop any terrrorsts when are border is wide open? The laws are to control US citizens, not people a half world away growing plants and herding goats.
And google useful idiot before you accuse me of name calling – it is a real term, that really is accurate for your comments. :)
"our" border.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
"Cuspid, try living in a country where terrorism is an every day occurrence."
I do:
an accurate term does not make it respectful……………..
"an accurate term does not make it respectful…"
I'm terribly sorry, I just didn't see where your statist anti-freedom comments merited respect. I will have to reread them.
I stand by my proclamation.
May your chains rest lightly upon you, bro.
@cuspid. We could have this discussion all day. First, dribble is stuff that drains from your mouth – drool. Please do allow me to use the words I chose. Second, you have a valid opinion. There is a lot of what you say that I agree with. Because I do not share parts of your opinion, does not mean I do not respect it or your right to have it. Third, I also have a valid opinion. However, you do not respect my right to have it and are insulting. If you honestly believe using the term idiot in any form is not insulting, then perhaps you need to step back and think a bit harder about it. Would you use the term face-to-face, or do you feel being anonymous empowers you? If you chose the former, you are not a person I would ever associate with to begin with. However, I suspect the latter is the better choice.
For one, I choose not to spend my time discussing anything with a person who believes only his way is the right way and who shows no respect for others.
cuspid 2:39 – and you have proven my point – "you just didn't see…." One thing in your favor is you do not disappoint.
"in my humble opinion, anyone who resorts to name calling does so simply because he has nothing important to say so fills his comments with dribble."
Yes, tsa, I'm sure you meant my comments were filed with saliva. I mistakenly thought you meant my comments "nonsense" that I was commenting "stupidly or carelessly" i.e. drivel.
My mistake.
tsalnew: you are a despicable coward. If you need a nanny state to protect you, GTFO to Europe, you're neither needed not wanted here!
I'm with Cuspid on this.
tsa, Maybe Cuspid meant Ignoramus. surley that's not insulting. is it?
She should be happy, they usually shoot the dog too.
I Agree George, funny how not so long ago if this story came from the Soviet Union, China or a old article about Nazi Germany, all the comments would be Glad I Live in a FREE America. Remember what Benjamin Franklin said, "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
I'd hardly call a single mother cowering on the floor in dog urine while her terrified child screams in the next room an improvement. (Reply to tsalnew)
George, if it was you having to be first one through the door of an armed drug dealers house, you might think otherwise. Stop your whining.
tsalnew – Please shoot yourself. You are a moron. The Patriot Act is the most un-patrotic thing in history, well until the NDAA was swiftly signed by the Constitutional lawyer straw man that resides in the white house for the next twelve months.
Well, alrighty then. Why don't we just get rid of warrants? Obviously the police never screw up.
oh look – school is out and the kiddies are on their computers.
One observation – I am not the one complaining about this country – those who are telling me to leave are. If you are complaining, it stands to logic you would be the one to find a place to move to. No, wait, that's logic and none of you know the definition.
Carry on children! If nothing else you are amusing – painfully sad but amusing nonetheless.
…as an American,..(I presume),…you have an inherent right to be stupid, and to act like an idiot who never listened in civics class,….so good luck with your love of this corrupt government when the value of your dollar falls to half, and you cannot afford to heat your home,feed your family,..or complain about it without ending up in a FEMA Camp,…..however,..if you had some world-experience, and have had to interact with the traitorous class that runs our government,…you'd understand what your kids are going to have to live in and under,…and I hope when that day arrives for your sorry-ass,…I hope you look in the mirror, at the coward you've become,..and I hope you choke on your idiocy,…
RJ O'Guillory
Webster groves-The Life of an Insane Family
RJ – it is refreshing to see you acknowledge that insanity is part of your family.
Let's see. I said that this raid was a horrible thing. I said that I felt terrible for the mother and especially her child. I also said that every family in this country deserves to live in a safe area where they can go outside without the fear of being murdered or attacked by gangs or have their children confronted by drug dealers.
You disagree with that. I wonder who is the idiot.
Although – other than now acknowledging that there is clearly insanity and idiocy running wild on this blog – I have attempted to show respect where none has been shown by anyone here for a person who happens to have a view that is different from yours. Keep on with your theory that you have all of the answers and that you are somehow better than all else. That is the country I see and the mind set that makes me sick.
I said that this raid was a horrible thing. I said that I felt terrible for the mother and especially her child."
That's very big of you. However you blithely accept it as the cost of doing business. Your feelings are irrelevant to fixing the situation. People are still being killed and terrorized by our own gov't. But thank goodness you "feel terrible". I'm sure that will help.
"tsalnew I also said that every family in this country deserves to live in a safe area where they can go outside without the fear of being murdered or attacked by gangs or have their children confronted by drug dealers."
Could you please tell me which part of the Constitution authorizes armed military teams to kick in the doors of US citizens and terrorize and kill them and their pets?
There is only one problem, they have made it virtually IMPOSSIBLE for the average NY resident to purchase or own a firearm. That is why they went in so brazenly! They already know that there is an 85% chance that everyone on the other side of the door is UNARMED.
exactly! the point and the plan.
Fitchburg is in Massachusetts, not NY
An individual willing to sacrifice liberty for protection deserves neither!
Agree 100%
I'll second that………………………..
I so agree. Its gotten way out of hand.
So i had this really well written response untill word press screwed it up. So here is the short version.
Your comment speaks to the overarching issue in society- expecting the government to fix our issues.
I say man-up and defend your home, neighbor and way of life. Band together with your neighbors and stand-up to the infestation of drugs and gangs.
Yes it will be hard and yes it will probably involve the police – but lets all take responsibility as MEN and fight (legally) for a better society and not wait for "someone" else to fix it
We should be offended if the FBI comes into our neighborhood – that means we failed.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."- Sir Edmund Burke.
A frickin' men.
I live in a shaky neighborhood that is perpetually teetering on the edge of becoming a true crime nest. Less than a block from my house is an apartment complex filled with thugs and pushers, and they attract all the expected types regularly on weekend nights.
I also participate in the local neighborhood watch, and we walk up and down the six blocks in our territory, in groups of five (in shifts, of course), all armed with basic hand weapons (no guns), every night from 10pm until 2am. The only major problem we've had since we began this tradition was when a college team was bused in and was put up in the vacant back-side apartments in the aforementioned drug nest. Two people got shot that night, thankfully none in our watch group, because it happened around 3:30.
Seriously, folks, if you don't like how your neighborhood looks, do something about it, and quit wringing your hands and complaining.
This is what it is going to take to clean this hellhole up, or we can expect a police state. Good thought process Ryan
Roger that!
Locked and loaded.
Nah. No fail on the FBI showing up. They're 1 of the biggest criminal gangs. They'll make up reasons to break in to people's homes and shoot any who resist. The FBI was born from J.E. Hoover, who used the FBI to investigate congress, to blackmail them, while the CIA put all manner of blackmail worthy bait in the path of those congressmen who became pliant slaves to the will of the most demonic element of Earthly society, The Rothschild Banking Empire, which now spans the globe. The Rothschilds own every CENTRAL BANK on Earth, they own the central banks of ALL nations, they control the printing of the money with which they buy whoever needs be bought to run a monumental scam on the tax payer and massively murder people by disease, starvation, warfare. The excuses the FBI uses to break and enter and shoot people aren't even possibly federal crimes.
Regulation would be appropriate, by the states, in compliance with the wishes of their people, IF injury were an often enough occurrence. Cannabis is impossibly over dosed and in actuality is IDEAL HUMAN NUTRITION. Cannabis contains the exact ratio humans need of omega 3 and 6 oils AND it contains the exact protein proportion humans need to build DISEASE FIGHTING IMMUNOGLOBINS. Cannabis is a purely benign MEDICINE. PLUS it's a whole nutrient, people can survive and thrive on a cannabis only diet. Yet the fed gov by the drug war they started on American citizens is arresting people for victimless crimes, which are really no crimes at all. Then the fkn criminal judges are instructing jurors to disregard evaluating guilt and accept the judges "instructions" on how to evaluate the case, which strips the jurors of their RESPONSIBILITY to evaluate not merely if the suspect did the "crime" but if the law is just, if what the suspect did was really a crime at all, which I hold out to you, regarding mere cannabis possession is not possibly a crime by common law.
Common law is simple, don't encroach on anybody or their property and meet your agreements. Obviously merely possessing plants you own is not an encroachment on other people, nor on their property, and doesn't break any agreement. Thus, by common law possessing cannabis is perfectly legal. The constitution guarantees to us by the 7th Amendment, trial by jury AND common law where the offense is claimed worth more than $20.
What's going on in the USA is grossly criminal cronyism, which is another thing that was outlawed centuries ago due the damage it causes society to have a clique of power hungry domineers using the power of the state to run their criminal game on the whole world. The FOR PROFIT Prison industry, also crony operated, is a heinous abuse of US citizens.
All this crap must and will end. It's gross lawlessness that's now building robot armies, drones to augment their nuke arsenal and ensure resistance be futile. The longer we let this go on, the more of us are going to die by it when you finally recognize it as brutal criminality and stand against it.
It may already be too late and these criminal globalist billionaire bureaucrat king pigs are going to accomplish the 90% human extermination globally that they've been planning and preparing and proselytizing as good for Earth, when really it's only good to maintain their grossly corrupt power.
Tommy Tisher syndrome
You're full of $hit, Robert.
Yeah it's far better to kick in the wrong door and violate peoples rights.. BU LL SH IT!!!
Robert, that is one lane @$$ comment to make to someone who was domestically terrified by our government! Rather a drug dealer live another day than have my life and those of my family members put at risk by uniformed thugs with a license to kill.
"I'd be oK if they smashed down my door on accident as long they they got them."
You are an idiot, a lemming, and not fit to enjoy the liberty that this Country supposedly provides you. Comments like yours are what will lead us to a fascist regime where police officers (local and federal) are paramilitary storm troopers instead of citizens who are a part of the community they are supposed to be working for.
I agree with you John G. I do not want any law enforcement forcing their way through my door for any reason. Last I checked, they should be knocking on the door, identhfing themselves, and presenting a search warrant. If I woke to the sound of a chain saw sawing through my door at 6:10 in the morning and I lived in a drug infested neighborhood, they would be met immediately with flying lead.
Robert….just saw the memo…they'll be cutting and kicking YOUR door down tomorrow at 6:04….just before YOU wake up….they will point guns at YOU and order YOU to lay in your dog's urine for 35 minutes while YOUR daughter cries out for you and you don't dare move for fear of being shot.
Then they will find out they have the wrong address and give you a number to call to get the money back to fix the door THEY destroyed and give you a half-assed "sorry".
I'm sure, as you already said, you will feel it's all good.
The problem is that we have all become sheep willing to accept the abuses of an out of control government for "the greater good".
There is that pesky thing called the constitution that SHOULD protect us from what happened to Jessica, but too often people such as yourself are willing to give up a little "constitution" if they catch somebody.
Why not expect them to follow the constitution in the first place, and possibly read the address correctly?
Well said. And that's why we need to vote for Ron Paul. He's the only candidate worried about how rapidly we're losing our freedom.
SWAT Teams should NOT be Allowed in America period!! This is typical of Nazi Germany under Hitler!!! Well they didn't get them at least not that day and before making such a comment think about what is WRONG with this picture, better yet read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Robert your a whimp!
Who the Hell are you to apologize for this federal thuggery? Goodbye freedom in the name of 'security'. I hope that she sues them for their stupidity and incompetence.
I agree with your first two sentences but that is a Bad idea about suing the police. Who do you think will end up paying that bill?
So you wake up and find someone chainsawing their way through your front door. You have no idea who it is. And you would be just fine with it, standing there waiting, wondering "gee, maybe it's Santa Claus?"
We grant law enforcement formidable powers. Those powers come with formidable responsibilities. If they break into the wrong house, they – and they only – are responsible for the consequences, regardless of what those consequences might be. If the home owner thinks he is the target of a home invasion and starts shooting back, because the officers did not announce themselves as law enforcement, and if someone gets killed in the exchange of fire, then the commanding officer should have to bear the full responsibility.
I used to be a rescue worker. We were told that the right to use sirens and emergency lights grants us the right to break traffic laws, but it also means that you as a driver would be fully accountable for any consequences. It's the same thing here.
This is a classic situation where a Bivens suit against the government to vindicate 4th amendment rights would be available. This is like a 42 USC Section 1983 action, but those only apply to hold the states accountable. Bivens actions hold the federal government accountable in this kind of situation.
An excellent post, sir.
I shudder to think what would have happened to me if they'd done that to my door. I'm armed. I don't like people using chainsaws to come through my door. I'm an excellent shot.
An LEO would be dead, and likely, so would I. Or drugs would have shown up in my home to "justify" the raid. Or someone would have said they announced they were LEOs.
The FBI and DEA are criminals in todays USA.
robert, are you kidding? No one I mean no one deserves these jack booted thugs kicking there door in. Let us turn the table a bit. It was your house and they accidently shot your wife/kid. Now what song are you going to sing???
Gubment employees.
We're not all like that. Some of us can read numbers and addresses and such…when we're not sleeping at our desks.
It seems they didn't knock or announce their presence until they after they entered. What if an otherwise-law abiding citizen felt he was being threatened (wouldn't you feel threatened if someone was chain-sawing their way through your front door), and chose to fire a legally registered firearm at the agents?
If I was in that situation, and someone was sawing their way through my door (without having announced being a law enforcement agent), I would absolutely fire a single shot from my shotgun the second they step through the threshold to my home. According to the laws of my state,
"198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
or substantial physical injury."
Agents need to be more careful when entering private residences. I understand they need to apprehend criminals. But if they announce their presence, and a person still fires a weapon, then blow the perp's head off. Fair game.
I agree whole heartedly. However, the realities of such an action would have left her dead. Let's make an assumption that the LEOs didn't announce themselves. Even then there were more than one. In that situation, they would be wearing protective vests and would more than likely enter with side arms drawn. The home owner opens fire in this scenario sinc she doesn't know who is coming in. She might get one but the other LEOs will automatically return fire since they perceive a deadly threat as well. Result: at worst one cop dead but more than likey just wounded while one mother dead and one orphaned child.
However egregious the event was, her lack of response saved her life.
these "guys", aka the FBI, have been caught red handed using patsies to blow up american buildings in concert with the batf. these "guys" are a nazi thug gang that are setting up patsies all over this nation for "domestic terrorism" busts to further destroy our liberties. A WELL ARMED citizenry, and well trained, does NOT NEED a police force nor the FBI or CIA. I can protect me and mine just fine, and furthermore, ALL POLICE forces should be abolished and there should only be the Sheriff's, whom are the highest order of law in the land as it is, and are the keepers of the Constitution with the authority to arrest "federal" agents.
you are a freaking moron! she could have been shot – there is zero excuse for this kind of error and some people should be fired.
Not that racebaiting Holder POS.
Wow, cuspid just totally owned this thread.
Good job, friend.
Ltpar? If it were your children being terrorized you'd feel different. Or maybe you grew up in the USSR, so you're used to that.
Have you seen any reduction in drugs, guns or living off tax dollars? You traded some more freedom for promises of security, and you don't even get the security!
Better to blow their heads off for spitting on their oath to the Constitution. EVERY ONE OF THESE maggots. And take out their families as well, using their OWN rules of engagement. A cocktail through their bedroom window in the middle of the night sounds just about right…
>Fitchburg is infested. These guys are putting their lives on the line to protect us from the rodents.
Last time I remember somebody calling an entire group of people rats, it was 1925, and six million Jews died.
Lucky they didn't do that to my home. I likely would have put a bullet into the officer before he managed to bash through the door. I am a 36 year old computer professional with a degree (for all those who might think I am some crazy criminal). No, I would not be OK, and these 'mistakes' cannot happen, period. They are getting a bit too big for their britches.
You'd be "ok" with it?? And there's the problem. People like you are what allows them to get away with doing it to the rest of us who are NOT "ok" with it!
Dont these cops work for the government that everybody hates !!
If you hate the government; why would you condesend to their blue power ?
Your kind aren't sorry until it happens to you. I hope it does, and soon. You deserve it.
The rest of us want our Constitutional rights back. The next violent home invasion needs to be met with armed resistance. If it's the police, then good riddence.
Government agents have no business performing violent home invasions against terrified women, puppies and toddlers. The people committing these crimes are violent thugs, and they should be shot like the rabid dogs they are. There's no excuse for the violence of these assaults on citizens' homes.
That Puppy will grow up to be a vicious PIT BULL. Why do the Illegals all have them, Huh?
This is going to hard for you to grasp but what you suggest as a proper policy is more consistent with the NKVD or Gestapo. The role of government is not to protect us from what MIGHT happen. Breaking an innocent persons door down and forcing to the floor is a greater crime when perpetrated by government than by a common criminal. This sort of thing is intolerable.
The people must be secure in their homes, It is our responsibility to protect ourselves and our duty to protect liberty from government.
I know you have been taught to believe that government and only government can protect you but by accepting that proposition as truth you become willing to cede your freedom to the government in exchange for protection that it can and will not actually provide you with. In the end your concept of conceding an increment of freedom for safety will always result in tyranny and oppression.
Please try to find an objective person who understands the concepts of individual liberty and the roles and responsibilities of the citizen in a republic and discuss your beliefs with them.
Best Regards
Robert you're an idiot. This lady had her rights trampled and her life threatened. She should sue that police department out of existence.
They are not saving anyone. Legalize drugs and the funding for the gangs go away with attendant price drops.
The only thing these jackbooted thugs are doing is killing our rights.
I can't wait for them to knock down your door.
To most of the people in Nazi Germany, it was OK to do this kind of stuff,if they complained in the USSR, you would get a free vacation to Serberia. Folks this the USA ,its called freedom! Please don't tell me this is OK. I think this is wrong and I believe that its all about government control. This is about arresting young Americians for having a jouint or a pill so that the cops and DA can show how great they are for busting some petty criminal, while the rich Linsey Lohans and the dirty politicians go free.
People like you are the reason this country is no longer free. Let's see your reaction after this happens to you.
"or better yet, one illegal alien it most likely saved at least one life down the road"
Yes, because all illegal immigrants are killers. moron.
So you would have no problem with a bunch of men pointing weapons at your daughter and then offering a halfhearted apology afterwards? THIS is why things in this country have gotten so bad. A nation of cowards willing to sell their liberties for the facade you call freedom.
Robert -idiotic post. Using your calculus, if we're able to seize one gun or one illegal alien, that justifies chainsawing down an innocent person's door and terrorizing a woman and child who did nothing wrong, because you were too sloppy to do your job right. Because you were careless and sloppy. Sorry, no sale. What you're describing is a police state, qhat you're describing is madness. According to your lousy logic, the seizure of ten guns or ten illegal aliens justifies terrorizing ten innocent families thru sloppy mistakes. If you would be OK if they smashed down your door and terrorized your wife and kids, if you would be OK with your wife being made to lie in a puddle of dog urine and your baby daughter screaming for her mom for a half hour, then you are a hopeless fool and not worthy of being a husband or a father.. People like you can't wait to be rolled over and abused by your government, for you government has carte blanche to engage in all manner of abuse of innocent people, as long as they arrest an illegal alien or confiscate a gun every once in a while. It doesn't even matter to you whether the illegal alien is a narco trafficker, or some guy picking fruit for a lousy wage and collecting some form of welfare – in either case, you're just fine and dandy with innocent people being terrorized thru sloppy mistakes, so long as they eventually chainsaw thru the correct door and get their man. By your logic, you'd have been just fine living in a country where they had a Gestapo or a Stasi. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Amen.
You are sick in the head. Attitudes like yours are why we are no longer free in America.
Wrong Robert- America is NOT Nazi Germany–an apology just isn't good enough–Lets send them to YOUR door at 6:00 am before you're awake to chainsaw your door open and BURST in your home with guns drawn to terrorize you and any children you may have to the point of hysteria…IF they tried that in my home I guarantee you I have 2 guns within reach in my bedroom–both loaded..and I promise you they would have been sorry MFs…and rightly so! Robert I'm sorry BUT you Sir are a wiener. No judge in the this world OR likely the next would hold me responsible for protecting my home from Nazi storm troopers HELL bent on my destruction!
Robert, demonizing guns is not right. Firearms are legal and our last defense against the very criminals you mention. I do agree that mistakes happen and I'm sure the FBI will make good with all concerned. BTW, if I had neighbors dealing drugs the authorities would know exactly who I was and would have had my wholehearted support using my apartment as a staging point. Miss Sanchez most likely knew what was going on and should be apologizing for not informing the cops about her drug dealing friends. If she didn't know, she should have.
Robert: Doing Law Enforement on the percentage of Weathermen is not Law Enforcement it is stupidity. If you screwed up that badly in your job you would be G-O-N-E! As should be.
You'd be OK with your child being terrorized like hers was? You sir, are lost.
Sounds Just as bad as the other routine apology!
"Gee! We only caused you great terror and maybe even some psychological damage! But Nothing like a few years of therapy to clear it up. You will be back to your ole self again except for that nerves twitch in your eye. No harm done!"
Typical Liberal think! We are terrifying you for your own good!
And Oh yes! Guns! Those evil things which plot crimes and destruction. Guns prowl the streets to find victims and then all by themselves they pull their own trigger. You can't trust a gun!
Only the cops guns are smart and know what to do, like pointing their barrel at a woman laying on the floor and threatening to murder her.
I am totally shocked that a FREE person could have such a point of view. You make it difficult for the rest of us to remain free.
ditto and I'm sure Jessica Sanchez is probably an illegal alien herself. DEPORT THEM ALL!
Are you f@#king kidding me?!! What a sheep you are. This is how the gestapo and the KGB ran their operations and real people ended up dead or in a camp.
What an idiot.
Your attitude is the very essence of the problems we now face in this country. We have become numb to the governmental way of life. We do NOT simply sit by and assume this is acceptable behavior! You should be outraged that something like this happened on our american soil! A chainsaw comes through my front door and a volley of .45 diameter pieces of lead are kindly returned in the outward direction! No citizen deserves this type of treatment, mistake or not! Europe might be a lovely destination for you to consider as a place to live. You would love the sheep like atmosphere in the UK.
Velcome to the Knew Amerikka! Zis is just a taste of vat ve have in store for you, since Obama signed the NDAA. And you Robert you who would give up all your rights for a little security, deserve neither.
The attitude you're taking is what's wrong with this country. If people stopped encouraging incompetence we wouldn't be in the shape we're in. How about instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, we prosecute people who commit crimes against people instead?
Smoke weed, no problem. Steal from someone to buy weed, go to jail.
That makes sense.
Does this mean that we can use Robert as a slave? If so, I call dibs!
Go a little further with that, and say, since you are a concerned neighbor of this drug activity(and I don't mean the dude next door that smokes a joint after work), since you have a child to think about, and circumstances have you renting in this building for whatever reason..the YOU should be the one letting them know where this stupid stuff is happening. Thereby, eliminating the possibility(or at least diminishing the possibility) that they would break your door down.
Example..if I had a meth head, or a meth-maker living next door to me and my two children, they will be asked nicely to leave, and then, if they didn't comply, I'd let it go for a month to make them think it's all good, and "that fool ain't gonna do nothing'. Then, it's on. They will have a visit by authorities..and if that didn't work, my children would go someplace safe, and I would make the "warrantless' arrest myself…and I don't care what the consequences were!
As for how this story went down…if they were surprise me like that, and I wasn't into anything stupid, and they did it wrong like that, then came back to 'apologize'..??!!? …Yeah, that messenger would have been hit in his mouth with whatever I had in my hand at the time, or my bare hands…"oops, I apologize."
However, being the neighborhood this seems to be in, I must say that, there may be something else underlying from this story that isn't being said…of course, if it was a mistake, those 'underlying circumstances' would be covered-up fully, and made to be a distraction, and exoneration from anything unlawful by these criminals with badges anyway..so..
That family is screwed..and I BET the landlord makes the tenant pay for the damages to the door. I may be wrong though.
~Blessed Be to all~
I know many people in Fitchburg, and I'm happy that the Feds are finally doing someting about the guns, drugs, and gangs that the town in riddled with! I'm sorry this lady and others are the wrong targets of crime stings, but these operations are absolutely necessary in "the Fitch". The local newspapers are always reporting about the crime that the town is "infested" with (like Robert above stated). Hopefully Mayor Wong and other town officials are taking note of these corruptions, and are taking the proper steps to weed out the low-lives and bring some freshness back to the town. Do away with section 8, subsidized housing, additional alcohol distributors (there's a bar on every corner!), and require that ALL landlords of the sub-standard multi-family apts live within 10mi and get regular home inspections. If the town would set a standard and maintain it,things would be different.
So you're part of the idiot swat team I'm guessing? A CHAINSAW? Really? I'm sorry but ANYBODY starts sawing down ANYBODY's door at 6AM with a chainsaw then they are asking for a gunfight. There are a lot of home invasions going on now but the police and media are playing them down. A chainsaw cutting down the door makes a tremendous racket and nobody can reasonably expect to hear any announcements of it being the police. Besides, home invaders are notorious for claiming to be police with a search warrant. They keep up with these tactics and they better start expecting armed resistance. No reasonable person can be expected to mentally process that it is the police not serial killers when they use a chainsaw on your door and wake you from a sound sleep.
You are correct – besides what is wrong with waiting on these criminals to leave and then arrest them. Unless they are a direct threat to the public, pick them up when they sliver out of their nest. That sure as hell would have made Waco a non story.
There are also shotgun rounds called door breachers for wooden doors. Bam! and the door is open.
The objective of these 'raids' on innocent people is to get you used to the fact thet you might be 'invaded' at any moment and to bring fear to the populace. All the better to control the population in the new police state.
The whole necessity of the no-knock or surprise the bad guys is completely false. After they spent over half an hour harassing the wrong person, they still arrested the correct suspects after the element of surprise was dead, buried, mourned, and memorialized in granite.
I think John Sheridan's point is valid. How on earth could your otherwise justify these types of actions? How is it that a citizen is going to be expected to differentiate this type of event from a home invasion, in an area where they are COMMON moreover. Police have the wrong attitude about their powers.
Ron Paul!!! :)
The 4th Admendment protects from Unreasonable Searches. Even if they went to the right apartment, it would still be illegal, and I'd be happy to hang the jury, if I were on it. This is exactly why the Second Admendment exists!
Dead on Locked & loaded… Which is why I keep a gun at home. I can always call 911 to verify if it is the police with my 9mm at my side and my AR… LOL
I'm sorry NewYorker's can't protect themselves, the Second Ammendment was for this very thing. Police or Government or the common criminal. Some one using a chain saw on my doors will be facing a loaded shotgun with slugs and buck shot for their troubles, but I live in a free state, Texas…
Most will criticize your comments despite the fact that they make perfect sense and are well thought out and presented. What happened is a travesty on all levels. I feel terrible for the woman and even worse for her child who was not allowed to get to her mommy. On the scale of things, when you consider all of the FBI raids, there are few errors. It's a shame the media doesn't spend as much time trying to help fix the mess rather than happily contribute to it.
NWA was right.
…I just came back to check the updates on this posting, and all I can say is "Wow"! Tsalnew, I think you're the only one that got what I was saying! I was totally misunderstood! (I guess it's all based on perspective). I was simply stating that Fitchburg has had a great deal of corruption that has been plaguing the town for years, and it looks like the Feds are finally (trying) to do something about it! I certainly DO NOT think that a 2yr investigation that ended in an innocent victim and her 3yr old child being terrorized by a chain saw and armed police was an acceptable event. She absolutely should be compensated for the trauma that her famiy was wrongfully exposed to. I do think, however, that it's necessary to execute these operations with an element of surprise if it means a greater chance of catching the criminals off-guard and putting them away for some hard time. What happened to this lady was awful, and I hope the FBI will learn from this huge mistake.
If the authorities should simply compensate people who this happens to, how much should the compensation be when an innocent person is killed in one of these raids? Although it didn't happen in this case, people ARE killed in these raids. The feds (and local police forces) are doing this sort of thing all over the country. The question is, why? Why is the use of violence necessary? Law enforcement is supposed to be charged with keeping the peace; instead, raids like this create violence where none would otherwise exist. We've been trying prohibition long enough at this point in time that it is ridiculous to think that by arresting drug dealers drugs will disappear, but raids like this take things even further and invert the whole calculus of the issue: The supposed reason drugs are illegal is because their use allegedly causes problems like violence (which is actually more true for alcohol than many if not most illegal drugs, but that is another issue); however, if the goal is to prevent violence, how in the world does it help to have law enforcement initiate it?
As long as raids like this are used, mistakes will be made, and innocent people will be terrorized and/or killed. Even when innocents are unaffected, violence is still being created in these raids by the state, and for what? What good are these raids doing that can outweigh that fact? Given the law of supply and demand along with the fact that most humans throughout history and in the foreseeable future will occasionally wish to chemically alter their consciousness, what good can these raids possibly achieve?
er, the last part of that last sentence should read "what good can these raids possibly be doing that would outweigh that fact?"
@FixTheFitch……….I do get what you are saying. However, as you see, little people on here will crucify you if you happen to say something that does not meet with their approval. This blog is full of what makes this country the mess it is now. I agree with what you said initially and your comments now. The end result was a horrible error. We all make errors – with of course the exception of the many here who believe they are perfect. I hope for you and all who live in Fitchburg that something is done to make it a safer place to live.
Fitch – Another useful idiot.
Thank God there are still some Americans with a backbone and a sense of what the Constitution is about. Cuspid….I salute you.
You may or may not know this. But, there is a maxim that applies to all marketable goods and services. It is called supply and demand. There are liquor stores on every corner because PEOPLE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD DRINK! There are large marijuana grow-ops in buildings on your block because PEOPLE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD SMOKE MARIJUANA! And no amount of cops, feds, guns, laws, drug-testing, prisons…etc is EVER GOING TO CHANGE THAT FACt!!! Cops prove it to you everyday! They make a bust like this, and the next day, in a building on the other side of the block someone starts prepping a building for hosting a growing operation at least as large as the one that was taken out! This same failed policy has been in operation for over 70 YEARS, and more people are growing, selling, and smoking marijuana than when it was first enacted!!!
How much longer do you think it needs to go on? Until everyone stops using drugs? (Yeah that is going to happen as soon as this planet fails to support our existence here!) How much longer? A year? 5 more years? 2 more decades? How long until the drug war has been won? How many more botched raids, broken families, criminalized children, accidental shootings, and gang-murders do we as a society have to endure so that "YOU" can feel like something good is being done?
you're a nazi boot licker and an idiot of the highest order. we do not need cops to protect us PERIOD!! We need to use our 2nd Amendment rights and handle our business.
They infringed on her civil rights and traumatized the woman's little girl. What if she had panicked and was shot. Would that be ok as long as there was an arrest made down the hall? If I were her, I'd be on the phone with an attorney and every news media that would listen.
Yes, they did. Lot's of what ifs exist that didn't come to pass. What if they had thrown a tear gas canister inside and started the building on fire? What if they turned off the power in the building and everyone had to reset their clocks? What if she wasn't allowed to have pets and the landlord kicks her out because of the puppy? She'll be HOMELESS!
What's an attorney gonna do for this woman and her daughter, take away the trauma? Think she'll feel better and forget this horrible trauma if the give her some cash?
BTW: When was the last time you made a mistake, Jill? (or don't you make mistakes?)
Nice try, Mr. FBI guy.
Like everyone else , I make plenty. But when your job requires extensive training that could save or take a human life AND you've had 2 years to prepare for this kind of operation, OOPS just doesnt cut it.
So it's a non-issue for you because the woman wasnt killed in the process of this foul up? Would you have a different opinion if it was you?
An attorney probably isnt going to be able to do squat, but something like this shouldnt be taken lying down.
When you carry a gun, and/or a chainsaw, you are no longer allowed to make mistakes.
Dumb ass. GTFO!
Sorry "Postman", but your reply to Jill was DEPLORABLE. If this woman doesn't sue the FBI over this raid, she's crazy. Why? First, because this is a clear case of negligence and sloppiness on the part of the FBI. This was carelessness, and it DID result in her and her daughter being traumatized. In our legal system the appropriate remedy for government abuse is monetary compensation. There is tremendous value in seeing to it that the government is held to account for it's egregious negligence – if they are not held accountable, it sends a message that government abuse that results from negligence is acceptable. These men were sloppy and unprofessional, and tremendous harm resulted, but you think that the government should get off scot free without accepting responsibility? Also, the lawsuit will bring about a better internal review, reducing the likelihood of further similar failures, it will likely cause disciplinary action against the agents who didn't do their jobs correctly and unnecessarily traumatized this family. Without accountability, there is little likelihood of improvement. Additionally, this woman is going to need counseling – she was just put thru a traumatic experience in which she and her daughter were terrorized because of law enforcement sloppiness. The woman was lying in dog urine and forcibly prevented from going to her crying daughter for over a half hour – but YOU don't think the government should pay for counseling? Or punitive damages for sloppy work that caused unnecessary trauma? You don't think she should take a week long vacation and go visit family or get away somewhere, away from a house that she'll NEVER feel safe in again? Do you think she'll EVER feel safe in any home, anywhere again? This has PTSD written all over it. You're ridiculous.Do you think that ANY private sector company in the country wouldn't be sued over causing a comparable amount of harm? Do you think that government would let any private citizen off the hook for causing a similar amount of harm? Why should government be held to a lower standard of accountability, than a private concern or individual? You're ridiculous.
You're an idiot. Do everyone a favor and STFU.
Mistakes of mine don't take the form of armed incursion complete with threats of harm and property damage. Living in Florida's first congressional I would have opened fire on anything taking a chainsaw to my door, be vindicated in court, both criminally (Florida's no retreat law) and civilly. And a cops kids would be minus a Baby Daddy, before I was arrested. This proforma, "church lady" apology is weak, should not serve. Next time some tool smashes through your door without a warrant, kill them. I'm not sure where you live but move.
You questioning "what if" scenarios doesn't hold water. Certainly, if the what if's are outlandish, like the ones you provided, then they don't merit consideration. However, if the what if's are reasonable, such as what if that terrorist succeeded in their plot then the what if is very important to consider. What if I don't wear my seat belt? There are very important consequences of that behavior, particularly loss of life and property and they must be considered and that's why we have a law for it. When the government takes down the wrong door with a chainsaw, there are very serious what if's to consider. An innocent woman and child came extremely close to being killed by their government without a trial or having done anything wrong. This is a majorly important what if.
Your right to make mistakes ends where my civil rights begins. Mistake or not, this was a violent and illegal home invasion that put both the occupants and the invading police at real risk of harm. Had she been armed, she would have been perfectly within her rights to fire on the intruders and would almost certainly have ended up dead as a result.
It is quite obvious that you have no clue. Now, go back to sleep idiot!
Agreed postman – we seem to live in a world where no one who blogs makes mistakes
By all means, then. She should definitely lawyer up and Get PAID, baby! Someone making a mistake at your expense is like a winning lotto ticket to some. Get PAID!!! You people have all the angles covered. PTSD, dog pee, using the word 'egregious' (always good for a 5-10% increase in punitive damages), gross negligence…
She'll never feel safe again?!?! She's living in a crappy apartment in Fitchburg. She ISN'T safe. Thank god the people holding the guns were feds instead of her neighbors!
You're all right! She should lawyer up and GET PAID!!! It's the American way. Litigation is the way to success in our nation!!!
Tell me this, assume they had the right apartment, how much time did that chainsaw give the guy inside to jump out a window and run or grab a gun and be ready to blow away the cops coming through the door?
Your post is totally moronic…
for better or worse, cash is the medium of exchange by which civil liability is discharged in this country, and the liability here is substantial, i'd give her a million easy. it also sends a message to those who disregarded her constitutional rights.
Are you serious POSTMAN??? Cash awards make out of control govment agencies take notice.. sometimes. And BTW if you dont value your rights, I value mine, and I jealously and violently protect them.
You are so full of it. I hope that your family is terrorized and your pets killed by one of these raids and then perhaps you will feel differently and if you do not , you deserve what you get.
You sir, disgust me. On the graves of my Pilgrim forefathers, the violent, callous oppression of American citizens shall not stand.
Don't know about you, Pman, but I pay a price for my mistakes.
Mistakes? Yes, I make them on occasion. However any time I'm cutting my way into someone's house using a chainsaw I make sure to read the the number on the door first to see if its the right place. If you make a simple, dumb mistake when you do something simple its usually not that big of a deal. This mistake was way too easy to avoid for the people that did it not to have any consequences.
Do you think that little girl will ever trust a cop?
No one should ever trust a cop for any reason. NEVER! Especially not the always incompetent FBI or any other Fed POS. Cops are not your friends even when they act like they might be, and that includes when they are off duty because "officially" they are never off duty.
What if one of these people made a sudden move, or cried out, would they have been shot to death? If you get the wrong apartment, what is to say you will not misinturpurt some other kind of action. You would think these things would be calculated out to the last second as opposed to these wild attacks. And we condem other countries for doing this to their people.
You're kinda dumb.
God you are stupid!
You're an idiot. Do everyone a favor and STFU.
Is that your best argument, Mr. Obama?
What if is exactly the correct question in a land governed by the rule of law, not the rule of man. If someone was chainsawing my door, I would assume was an intruder and there would be a whole lotta lead and dead.
This swat team engaged in pure, gross negligence. There is no excuse for it. If they can't even get the apartment right? How much can you trust their investigation and evidence they used to get to this point?
oh, Postman, and in addition to being perfect, bloggers also feel their opinion is the ONLY one that is valid and will happily call names and insult …………..why……..because as I said they are perfect ! Go figure
Probably a gov't troll. I guess he calls himself the Postman because "The Postman always rings twice." Twisted sick humor at the expense of the woman's child..
"What if" is just another way of saying: "Think it through before you act". Or does Murphy's Law have no place in Postman's world?
Well postman, what if she did move and they killed her?
Cost of doing business?
Submit or die, regardless of guilt?
Submit to all whom order you around?
Can I break in your house while yelling FBI? Will you automatically obey me?
I'm sure tsa has some rationalizations too; what are they?
I'm all ears.
An unannounced raid is NEVER easy, even if everything goes perfect. Right!!
And while I think the FBI needs to 'man up' and take control of botches like this, both with actions and compensation, realize that it may not be so cut and dry.
People have been known to 'swap' door numbers when they want to hide. Heck, they can swap anything. I'm not saying the person involved in this botch was 'involved', but without knowing the 'rest of the story', it's hard to tell what blame has to be applied, and how much.
..this is yet another example of Government Tyranny. The "WAR" on drugs…is a joke. These officers violated this woman's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! Yes, it was a mistake. Yes, accidents happen. If however, we legalize drugs…then we take the money out of the trade, and thus the corruption. You wanna dope yourself with a chemical manufactured by a person that failed High School Chemistry? You are stupid. You need to get the hell out of this life and your defective gene pool needs to be drained.
This lady will be compensated, yet….the phony drug war will continue. Stop with the insanity.
hi mikey – hey careful – you are bordering on using common sense and that isn't looked upon as a good thing here.
BTW I agree with you :)
"People have been known to 'swap' door numbers when they want to hide. "
A fair point, but when the apartment numbers go, "1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 12, 5…", that should tip off the cops that something's amiss. :)
it's hard to tell what blame has to be applied, and how much.
The cops terrorized and assaulted an innocent person.
They are to blame.
And if they're too stupid hot to be tricked by a door number after TWO YEARS of investigation, why the hell aren't they working at mcdonalds mopping the floor?
Expect more of the same by Fuhrer Obama's storm troopers if he is re-elected in November.
Did the Patriot Act, which enable a lot of this activity, come in under Obama or was it Bush? That's right it was Bush Jr.
Go back and tell them you made a good one Dwayne! Maybe they'll pay you for this one!
Obama signed a continuation and expansion of the 'Patriot' act, so it's his too.
Obama also has the NDAA that makes Bush look like the Keebler elf in comparison. The NDAA allows permanent detention/murder of any citizen for any or no reason without trial.
Liberals are funny. They'll blame bush for everything he did wrong (which was a lot) and then defend Prez Zero for continuing every same policy…
Don't worry. The Federal Government will be much better at running healthcare.
Yep. It will be every bit as good as the VA hospitals, federal prisons and Indian reservations.
What if I decided to legally protect myself and my family and wound up dead at the hands of these overstepping idiots?
Government is so inefficient and inept – usually at the decision making level – that it makes me sick.
IF WHAT?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?…..moron.
Could you PLEASE STFU and GTFO?!
We don't need a what if, we have what really happened. An innocent woman and child were wrongly detained at gunpoint by their government with no probable cause. This is bad.
Really? I bet you voted for Obama. Another stupid, shortsighted devotee of government power. Check out the link below and get diarrhea!!!
Really a link to o the CATO Institute? Why not a more direct link to Koch Industries? The last thing that these Koch 'think tanks' are interested in individual rights. Corporate rights, well that's another question….
Your point postman?
"What if," is the reason potbellies are allowed to put their hands down the pants and grope 5 year-olds in airports. "What if" is the reason radiation porno bakers are in airports, courthouses and planned to be put in train and bus stations.
"What if" is the reason Bush attacked Iraq and Obama attacked Libya and plans to attack Iran. The state uses "what if" to justify it's tyranny daily.
The fact is through an act of total incompetence a Federal police agency placed a woman and her child in extreme danger, destroyed property, and violated a number of basic human rights. And apology doesn't cut it.
The number one cause of unnatural death worldwide is government. Only a fool would say that isn't a reason to ask relevant "what if" questions.
I would have died. Quite literally. I might have gotten the first two or maybe three, then I would have went down in a hail of bullets. But the people that break in my house will be met with lead. And I don't much care which "side" they allegedly are on. I would die trying to defend the country I used to have.
teflon coated glazer lead.
Why didn't the reporter try and get a comment from the federal goons, I mean FBI, spokesman? Or better yet, why not start asking CONGRESSMEN for a comment on why this is happening more and more to their constituents, and why they aren't doing anything about it?
The taxpayers will pay royally for the CRIMINAL negligence of the overpaid goons who treat peaceful citizens as the criminals.
Stop the Nazification of America, we have a Constitution, and they took an oath to defend it. They violated that oath.
What's worse, is there is no SHAME involved on the part of the criminal trespassers. And yes, when you don't have a warrant, you are trespassing if you don't have permission, it doesn't matter if the federales had "good" intentions, innocent people could have died because the FBI has steroid-riddled goons who get their jollies breaking down doors.
and these thugs will be in jail WHEN ?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
FBI who?
DOWN ON THE FLOOR BIITCH! OOPS! Sorry. Hope it doesn't cost you too much to replace that door.
I have a concealed weapons permit and a number of guns within ready reach. By law, I am allowed to defend my property. Law Enforecment better be double sure of the correct address before they chainsaw my door.
"by law i am allowed to defend my property"……….. If you shot a cop you'd go to jail. you probably like to think different but you're wrong.
That would be up to a jury
So what.
As a cop killer, you'd be the toast of the cell block. Besides, with ass kissers like you, there is no incentive for the goons with a badge to clean up their act.
"If you shot a cop you'd go to jail"
Not if I were on the jury – not in this case for sure.
If this had happened at my house, at least two agents would have been shot dead, and then me. Why? Because I would have assumed it was a home invasion, and I'm LEGALLY armed to the teeth.
Semper Fi, my brother, Semper Fi.
…or you would have pee'd in your jammies when you opened your eyes looking down the barrel of an HK416. Then you could sue for a better bed to replace the one you pee'd. Go big! If you get a good lawyer, you could probably get a new Tempurpedic mattress!
You're right, though. You would have the right to shoot at 'em UNLESS they identified themselves as LE with a search warrant. Then, you need to stand down.
It's hard to hear LE's announce themselves with a chainsaw going. They're lucky she wasn't armed.
No, I'd shoot them. Though, their dead bodies would evacuate, so the part about the pee is technically correct, it would just be there's. Nice try idiot.
…or you would have pee'd in your jammies when you opened your eyes looking down the barrel of an HK416. Then you could sue for a better bed to replace the one you pee'd. Go big! If you get a good lawyer, you could probably get a new Tempurpedic mattress!You're right, though. You would have the right to shoot at 'em UNLESS they identified themselves as LE with a search warrant. Then, you need to stand down….<<<
And you filthy rotten violent crazy evil pigs wonder why normal people hate you now? Read what you've been writing, and think about it. Keep it up, and there's no telling what's gonna happen.
James Solbakken
No need to stand down with an illegal warrant at the wrong address. It is common for criminals to use "Open up, Police." when trying to enter a home. My advice is to lock your door, arm yourself and call 911 to report an intruder. When I die, it will be standing up. Not laying down in a puddle of dog piss.
No need to stand down with an illegal warrant at the wrong address. It is common for criminals to use "Open up, Police." when trying to enter a home. My advice is to lock your door, arm yourself and call 911 to report an intruder. When I die, it will be standing up. Not laying down in a puddle of dog piss.
Without annouching and producing a legitimate Warrant, they should be shot.
Dead pigs. Coming soon. And maybe dead pig families as well, since this swill has NO concern about who is in the homes THEY invade. Cocktails through the bedroom window in the middle of the night, anyone? After all, that IS their own Rules of Engagement…
That apology she got is worth nothing. Don't expect the jack booted government thugs to pay for the door, either.
Every small time police chief wants to play Rambo with these no-knock raids. It's dangerous and unnecessary. Two year investigation, but they couldn't wait for the suspect to walk out the door to go to work or grab a burger? He could have been arrested in the hallway without incident, and also less danger to the police.
Ah, but a "smash and grab" is more dramatic for the John Wayne wannabes that using common sense. And then there is the "PerpWalk" to humiliate someone who hasn't been proven guilty in a court of law.
One does not question the activities of the gestapo. Perhaps you are a [druggie | terrorist | communist | anarchist | other], and we will come for you in the night next. Remember: your loss of [liberty | freedom | property | life | other] is necessary for the security of everyone. Ve are the gestapo!
People should remember the Patriot Act was signed by the Grandson of a man. Preston Bush who was guilty of trading with the NAZI's in WW2.
Better than George Soros who worked for the Nazis.
Was that "B"uttle or "T"uttle? No worry maam, the Ministry of Information Retrieval will just send a check for your loss.
John Bad Elk v. United States – 177 U.S. 529 (1900)
Get used to it. We now live in a police state, and we have only ourselves to blame for allowing it to happen.
At least they didn't shoot the dog this time
REIMBURSED!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What if she didn't have money for a new door!
REIMBURSED!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What if she didn't have money for a new door!
You're stuttering.
This is horrible. When did the government get the right to treat its citizens this way. Even if they had the right apartment, this tactic seems questionable. Why not just wait for the guy to leave to go to the grocery and take him down? What if the person is found innocent but now has a traumatized family, destroyed home, and all of his neighbors think he's guilty? Of course all of these issues could be resolved by just legalizing marijuana but in the words of George Carlin, we don't have time for rational solutions!
I thought one of the requirements for being hired as an FBI agent was that you had to know how to read and write. 2F for 2R? They should all be fired along with the ones that approved their hiring.
Within this police state, the people need to start firing back. Everyday we hear of authorities terrorizing the public, breaking down doors, killing people, veterans, dogs.
I'd rather die free than a slave.
Head shots…
The FBI can't just go around terrorizing innocent civlians like that! People are allowed to carry firearms now, a chainsaw ripping through your door at 6am would certainly make anyone jittery how unprofessional. Next time lets hope one of the agent COWBOYS gets their comeuppance and kills an innocent homeowner, then they can send an apology man to the funeral.
2 Years to prepare for this raid. NO unacceptable! they owe that woman a lot more than a sorry. I hope she sues everyone and anything connected to that raid!
The chainsaw was a nice touch.
If there weren't bars on the windows, they could have just roped in from a chopper and busted through her windows. That would have been awesome!
"We are a fact-gathering organization only. We don't clear anybody. We don't condemn anybody. Just the minute the FBI begins making recommendations on what should be done with its information, it becomes a Gestapo." J Edgar Hoover
Well America? What do you think of your Gestapo?
Remember the story a year or so ago of the Iraq vet who was shot to death by a SWAT team in his own home? Came out of his bedroom to defend his front door upon hearing a violent entry and was machine gunned in the hallway. Sorry, our bad.
Remember Waco?
Remember Ruby Ridge?
I think this lady should file a Law suit against the FBI for sure. I mean laying down for 35 mins and hearing your daughter cry for Mommy and not be able to go to her must have been heartbreaking. And then later the FBI finds out they got the wrong place. It makes you think are the FBI agents focusing on there Job. I am glad the Lady is ok though and did not get hurt.
It's absurd that it took the agents 35 minutes to realize they had the wrong apartment. What gives?
Thanks go out for the police for trying to arrest the bad people in the world. I'm so sorry that this lady now doesn't have a bad guy living next to her, maybe you can put the rapist/drug dealer/serial killer back since she is so upset about the incident.
Ay dehr – I dink we gaught da wrong doe ovah hehr.
Supporting Ron Paul is the only way to stop this from getting worse. The idiots who staff these agencies – who aren't smart enough to distinguish an "A" from an "F" – need to be stopped. You can go onto the Reason web page and read many more stories like this one.
If she would've moved they would've splattered her all over the floor. For drugs.
Remember when cops used to knock with a warrant? They would give you twenty seconds. nowadays they just bust in. if you have so little stuff that they are afraid you will flush it down then they shouldn't be raiding you in the first place. "Land of the free" what a joke
Beware of your local police. and all government enforcement agencies. They are all armed to the teeth and consider us, the helpless citizen, the enemy. All too many of them are bullies with criminal backgrounds who enjoy the power of the badge. You have every reason to fear them. Avoid them whenever possible. If your home is invaded without cause or warrant, you have a right to defend yourself. I am prepared and ready to do so.
Too bad she did not have a steel door. That chain saw would now be in bad shape.
The War on Drugs, the War on Terror are only just Wars on the AMerican people, our freedoms our liberties. The day is soon where what I am writing now will justify my door to be cut down.
The Average Pay for a Federal agent is 160,00.00 per year plus another 40,000.00 in employment benefits.
Most Americans would think they could afford to learn how to read their own "excuses for chainsawing a door" or at least know how to apologize.
And they get to retire earlier than most Federal Employees. Federal LE gets to retire after 20yrs. All other Federal employess have to do 30.
To all the commenters excusing or apologizing for the FBI on this thread:
If you don't want people to think that you're brainless thugs that enjoy the adrenaline rush of terrorizing women and little girls, please learn to spell correctly or at least use proper grammar and punctuation.
I do not believe that applies to all, and you might want to take a very hard look at your punctuation before criticizing others. Nice try, however! It's always fun to meet a person who feels he is perfect and all others are open to his criticism.
If I ever chainsaw through a door and terrorize a woman and a helpless child in the name of "law", I would hope someone would do more than just criticize me.
His punctuation is correct. The rest of his statement is also; while not the highest quality English your insinuation of error is misleading. The phrase "on this thread" is more commonly said as "in this thread" but that has not yet hardened into proper English.
Ernie – his punctuation is not correct. He has a compound sentence. Nice try though. It doesn't matter except that before criticizing someone else, perhaps it would be good to understand we all make errors. Something the majority of people here might want to think about. It's a lot like respecting another person's opinion. Get it?
tsal, the term is 'pure dribble'…..not 'DRIBBLE'….you 'dribble' a 'BASKETBALL'
Your ability to navigate the 'lexicons' of the English language result in 'pure dribble'.
gramps – although I realize you like to think you can speak for others
1. To flow or fall in drops or an unsteady stream; trickle: Water dribbled from the leaky faucet.
2. To let saliva drip from the mouth; drool.
Am around kids a lot and to me there is more respect among them than the supposed adults here.
I should add gramps that my choice of words was more than a little off. It's not really dribbling here – it's spewing.
Yes, the woman had a right to be terrified. And I feel horribly for her child. I said that at the very start. Yes, the FBI made a mistake. How many raids do they make that are not a mistake. It's my belief that a person – no matter what income level – should be able to live in a safe environment. His children should be able to play on the street and walk to school. And that the gangs and drug dealers should not rule. Just my opinion. Each time anyone goes into a situation as the police and fbi and other agencies do to try and make it possible for that to happen, he puts his life on the line. I understand most don't really care and that is all right too. When a mistake like this happens, it is tragic. However, I do not think the raids should stop. At that point the drug dealers and gangs win.
The FBI, will be made to:
1) Pay for the door.
2) Counseling for both Ma & the baby.
3) A few bucks for the Ma's pain & suffering.
4) A College Education for the 'Little Girl'.
5) The puppy get's a 'BIG MEATY BONE"!
Agreed, the raids should continue.
agreed on all 5 counts gramps
Actually gramps, it's drivel, not "dribble". I know, my ex is a master.
And they easily arrested the next door neighbors AFTER this insanity. What poor planning on their part with so little understanding of the real suspect. Not clear why the FBI and not local police used. I'm sure most Americans see the ever growing unconstitutional Federalization of government. Not to worry, they'll get their raises this year too.
Gee.. I have an idea!
Let's put the same people in charge of our health care system!
I mean what could go wrong?
We're sorry Mr. Smith. We had the wrong patient, it was Mr Jones who was supposed to have the vasectomy.
Fast and Furious was designed to allow more guns to go to mexico and blame the gun dealers. An excuse to void the second or at the least pass more gun laws designed to take away guns from law abiding citizens. No attempt was ever made to trace those guns. Holder is a liar. You can bet the FBI was glad they didn't get the "WRONG" apartment where a patriot with a weapon lived. Some of them might have died while trying to execute the wrong citizen. A two year investigation and the bafoons can't even get the right apartment? Obama must be on a "hire the handicapped" jag.
If the best that can be said by the gov't is "be thankful we didn't kill you," now get outta here! well, then just abase yourself in front of the new religion–Radical Secularism–now and get it over with.
Shoot 'em in the f-ing head…they wear body armor.
Another fine example of the Police State. The arrogance of these clowns is amazing. I hope she sues their socks off. Of course no one will really pay for this act of incompetence. Just check out "Fast & Furious" to see how the DOJ lies to cover itself. I am suprised they didnot arrest her on some phony charge to cover their butts.
Hate to say it, but if this were to happen at my home they'd have a fire fight on their hands and they'd be leaving in body bags. You better damn well have the right address. Mistakes like that get people killed.
Thank you ex-President Nixon, you and your damn "no knock" policy. When I was young the police were expected, due to the 4th Amendment, to knock on your door, show you the warrant, ask for your permission, then enter. If you didn't give permission, they had the right to enter if they had a valid warrant. But Nixon and his damn "War on Drugs" and "No Knock" policy, he tossed the 4th Amendment in the rubbish can. Luckily no one was killed. The child will probably be traumatized, however.
Suing these incompetent officials is not enough, because the taxpayer (you and I) ends up with the tab. Firing them is better.
Why do I have the sneaky suspicion they didn't use the chainsaw on apartment 2F? God bless Amerika.
Use of lethal force against such government criminals would be completely justified. Welcome to Amerika.
Duh Boston FBI calling duuuhhh. If you're not on our payroll how are we supposed to know that you're not a criminal? Duuhhhhh We need an urban assault vehicle, it's dangerous to have feeble brutal and incompetent out there, we might hurt our super secret squirrel agents
Considering what the FBI did in Waco and Ruby Ridge to innocent children, women, and elderly, this is pretty tame…
This country is turning into a nightmare. I am glad that this didn't wind up with the headline, "FBI agent shot by armed citizen defending home". Home invasions are on the rise and had someone come through my door with a chainsaw I would not wait to see who they were. The no knock warrant is one of the worst things law enforcement has adopted in a long time.
Vote for liberty – Vote for Ron Paul
If every FBI employee involved (BTW there is zero legal authority for the FBI to be involved. Go read the US constitution) in the raid were sentenced to a minimum of ten years in prison, I can assure you that the number of such "mistakes" would go way down.
Knowing the FBI would never be held accountable is what motivated the OKC bombing.
Well, that, and Eric Holder's assistance in obtaining the ammonium nitrate for the bomb.
second time in mass in 6 years last time they did this they shot and killed and an innocent elderly man then instead of saying sorry the blamed him cause he had a criminal in his family that didn't even live there. this is what you freaking sheeple asked for when you keep voting for a police state you are not any safer and stuff like this proves it this happens all the time all over this country and guess what you cant sue them the are protected by shield laws.
Am I to understand after half an hour they still were able to arrest the guy next door in 2F, w/o a chainsaw nonetheless! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant
If "2F" was still there and arrestable after all this hubbub, then it was plain as can be that the whole "no-knock" sickness was unnecessary from the very BEGINNING.
The *ONLY* just cause for SWAT-tactics is a barricaded suspect with hostages – otherwise knock on the door and wait, or if you're askeered of him the wait and jump him by surprise when he comes out!
OK… lets try and post this again:
If I'm inside my home… knowing I am a law abiding citizen and have done nothing wrong… and I hear a chainsaw coming through my door…you can bet the farm that I'm not going to wait to see who it is and what they want. No… I will be showering the door with lead. On top of that… I have installed video surveillance cameras inside and outside (as my neighborhood has seen an increase in crime lately) and I would have the evidence to justify defending my home…. whether it be a home invader or an FBI guy with dyslexia.
she is gonna get sooo much munnniez!!!!!!!
I don't suppose blowing the door off it's hinges and maiming everyone inside ever occurred to them…maybe they ought to change their name to the IRS and use the tax code.
Best part of this story is that I saw on the news the FBI had been investigating the perp for TWO YEARS. How the h*ll do you get the wrong address when you've been "investigating" someone for two frickin' years ????
Did that guy just watch The Shining? Here's Johnny!!!
I just don't get it…
No one will hear "FBI" over a chainsaw… period! Stand down?
Without a visual, how would one know it wasn't bad guys yelling FBI… even with that, the gift shop at the FBI sells everything with FBI on it!! HELLOOO!!
Yea, reality. I'd suspect a violent home invasion & not wait until the door was penetrated to protect my family (and dog).
BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG from my 11 round extension tube. No doubt I'd die WITH collateral damage (my poor family I was trying to protect)
Wrong address?! This should be front page news everywhere!! On all national TV, a million dollars of (yes my taxpayer money) should be awarded to the victim AND ALL involved fired! Recoup the million from THEIR pensions!
More and more this country is turning into a police state.
@cuspid: "And do tell, how can the patriot act stop any terrrorsts when are border is wide open? The laws are to control US citizens, not people a half world away growing plants and herding goats."
OmeriKa … http://911essentials.com
It has got to STOP. This is Fascist / Gestopo tactics over 'contraband'?
I don't care if you're a Democrat, Republican, Conservative (me), or Independent, this MUST STOP.
Agreed. Let the drug dealers and gangs alone. FBI is infringing on their rights and they aren't hurting anyone. Really
You'll find the definition of corrupt AND stupid in the dictionary under "Boston FBI" – get a good lawyer this one is easy. From Whitey Bulger to 9/11, they are nothing but incompetent stupid easily bought off domestic terrorists – and the Boston FBI has the lowest rating for any FBI office anywhere. Anytime.
What would that do if you used your 2nd Amendment Right to protect yourself and was killed in the process?
I think everyone is lucky here that she didn't have a gun handy. She would've been completely within her rights to blow them away before they announced, "FBI". That might have ended tragically for her and her child, though. Then again, maybe she would've gotten rid of some lackluster agents who obviously don't follow directions or have any social skills.
In fact, they probably owe her a thank you note for not ending their lives right then and there. Next time they may not be so lucky.
And of course the FBI files are filled with the names and addresses and intentions of all those who funded the Boston Logan airport 9/11 event… hmmm wonder if they are the same who funded their politicians, L and R. You betcha.
Famous But Incompent in Boston is known as F*&*% Boston Idiots.
We used to be citizens, we are now suspects.
I'm sorry…I'm not sure if I should of done it but I laughed out loud because just reading the title of this story. I can imagine some poor guy or family eating dinner an then hearing a chain saw ripping through the door. This is really really messed up.
I'm sorry…I'm not sure if I should of done it but I laughed out loud because just reading the title of this story. I can imagine some poor guy or family eating dinner an then hearing a chain saw ripping through the door. This is really really messed up.
The WAR ON DRUGS fuels AMERIKA MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
USA alone has 900 military bases around the globe, not counting those in AMERIKA
WE THE PEOPLE's taxes barely make a dent in the spending that's off the budget
WE are a NARCO state bent on taking over the entire WORLD
For more fun stories of US citizens rights being trampled, dogs shot, and lives ruined please visit this fun link:
They take after their President, BaracKO, arrogantly ruin it and then just walk away.
Arrogant evil pigs. If someone forcibly breaks into your home, respond with lethal force.
These guys carrying out the raids are not the guys who providee the intelligence. Also, the agents aren't sure if they are going to be met with a hail of gunfire so they are quite understandably hyped up. These mistakes are almost always bad information. The agents can't be blamed.
What do you mean that the agents can't be blamed? They are the ones violating the rights of innocent folks. If they can't be 100% sure of the accuracy of the "intelligence" (sic) they receive, then they need to find other employment. As long as the agents voluntarily choose to accept the information they receive as true, then they are to held accountable for any mistakes. I can't believe I would have to explain this concept to an adult.
"The agents can't be blamed."
I love cop apologists. – Frickin liberals.
All government officials are idiots by definition.
Maybe not in your mind, but if they are coming through my door, they are as good as targets! Ask Calley, and Eickman how well "I was only following orders" works as an affirmative defense!
Here's hoping they visit you next nomad. Search Warrant first or expect to be shot.
IF they're really worried about "a hail of gunfire" then maybe they should stop acting like home-invading-criminals and either (1) knock on the door like civilized people or (2) wait for him to come out and jump him THEN!
Your tax dollars at work!
Look for more of this as time goes on, regardless of who is elected President.
While you were sleeping, America has become a Police State.
Actually Ron Paul has made it very clear for 3 decades now that the federal war on drugs was and is a failure and that if he were elected president he would end it! I can understand your mistake though. Given that "when are you going to legalize marijuana" has been the #1 question 3 years running asked of Obama at his little virtual town-halls, you'd think at least one of the other 4 candidates would at least talk about it!
The so called War On Drugs has gotten totally out of control. These agents are out of control. I would have been shooting my 40 S&W or 12 gauge at/through the door once I saw that chain saw so I am certain I would have died that day by the hand of the GESTAPO, oops sorry FBI.
The American Gestappo is alive and well. Get used to it slaves! You are next.
As always, FBI = Famous But Incompetent.
What a bunch of idiots.
#Obama takes the administration's Occupy movement to the Chicago level
It's all Obumba's fault!!!!
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Barack H. Obama
Someone's at the door, Caleb.
Someone's at the door, Caleb.
Of course they can be blamed and held responsible! But whether anyone in government or the judiciary will give redress to wronged citizens is another matter. The authorities have long arms but short memorties.
There was a time when Americans were free. We now live in a police state.
first of all she needs to sue, she was unjustly held against her will, her home was invaded WITHOUT A WARRANT. Imagine how many innocent people they have murdered and how many people are in jail because they are incompetent?
Isn't it past time to bring the Constitution back from vacation?
Guess knocking on the door was harder than using a CHAINSAW?
Written by a Harvard and Duke Law Professor detailing that this is Standard Operating Procedure for the FBI. Convictions before truth, before justice, before reason, before accountability and the ends justify the means, always.
Republican or democrat, liberal or conservative, this stuff should scare the hell out of all of us. The government continues to erode our liberties and evade, or even ignore, the constitution on a daily basis.
For years now the law enforcement has been going for a minimize risk approach to law enforcement. Which means overwhelming force, use of tasers indiscriminately etc. The real effect of this policy is not the minimizing of risk but to transfer it from law enforcement (the guys paid to take risk) to the public. In the old days a suspect would be tailed and/or staked out until a good nab could be made. Today a swat or swat like team swarms a place traumatizing the innocent in the process and sometimes even mistakenly killing them.
oh my that is scary…I would bet my next thing would be ending up in the hospital from a stroke, heart attach and major panic attacks
This government has GOT to get its act together. Humans make mistakes. I get that. However, when they mistakenly violate someones civil rights they should go far above and beyond to not only apologize but offer something more. How about a panel of civilians or some other group investigate, decide who is responsible and make that person fork over half their pay for a year to the victim. That would put a stop to arrogant abuse of power by law enforcement. Most law officers are dedicated and conscientious, but some need to be fired or arrested.
Who is running the Alphabet Agencies? I thought you had to have an education to work there?
If they really thought an armed and dangerous gang member lived there they would not have used a chainsaw to gain entry because they would h ave been shot. Too bad this lady wasn't armed. She could have removed a few more idiots from the gnu pool. As an Alabamian let me be clear…if anyone goes all leather face on my door I'm shooting.
gnu = gene
Along the lines of what Jim said at 1:45, if someone who would chainsaw through a door and terrorize a woman, child and dog in the "name of the law", they are NO better/different than the SS, GESTAPO, NKVD, CRIPO ,etc. We are being conditioned by the TSA, FBI, DHS, DEA, etc. to accept more and more intrusive "law enforcement". All in the name of "public safety".of course. Read a book called "They Thought They Were Free" by Milton Mayer about Nazi Germany. It will chill you to the core. When the people of Germany could have stopped the expansion of the police state they didn't, then when it got really bad they couldn't. We are very close and getting closer by the day.
So did they have a warrant or probably cause to enter 2R instead of 2F? Sounds to me like someone is using the 'oops we got it wrong' excuse to violate a persons rights.
No matter how many time this kind of idiocy occurs, voters all over this country continue to vote for increased police militarization and still support the War on Drugs. No matter how many doors are kicked down and no matter how many people are terrorized by their own law enforcement, voters continue to vote for tougher and tougher drug laws and more and more gun control. The dots are easy to connect. But how can voters be smart enough to connect them when they watch so much TV and when the NEWS is complicit in it?
This is why our founding fathers wrote in the 2nd admendment. There would have been some dead bodies if the federal govt invaded my home like this.
When is someone going to reign in these monsters?
Shoot them in the croch. Vest, or not; It still hurts to be kicked in the croch with a shotgun.
This isn't new folks. The ATF has been doing this crap to legal gun owners for DECADES. And they aren't even law enforcement. You had better buy a gun and lots of ammo now while you still can and then make the commitment to use it. Might want to wire your house for video while you are at it.
I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That oath does not expire, even though I may not wear the uniform any longer. The 2nd amendment applies, but so does my right to protection from unreasonable search and seizure. My home is my castle, and none shall enter without my invitation or warrant. If they knock or ring the doorbell and are polite, I'd gladly let them in if I feel like it. ANYONE can break a door down and say they are the authorities. I will assume that violent entry is an attack on my freedom and that of my family, and I will defend that freedom with my life. We are not subjects, we are citizens, and we have rights that have been defended in blood for over 200 years. I will gladly go down in those ranks of brave men, than go down on my knees like a coward. Tyranny must never be allowed to flourish in the United States of America! If those officers took their oaths to that same Constitution seriously, these incidents would not happen!
These types of mistakes should get the entire group fired if they survive it.
The truth. Regardless of the ammo, if a person inside resists this, they are dead. There is backup crew ready to wipe out the occupant. The problem is the numb nutts US Attorney General is insane. Thanks Obama! Please read up the guns he sold to Mexicans whom in turn killed border agents… We have a new Army of police officers whom may be good guys BUT they have a job to do and must follow directions if they want employment. Catch 22. New leadership, but I do not see anyone with brains enough to lead the USA. I do know, Obama must go and take Eric Holder with him… Remember Janet Reno? Insanity.
Like I said, *shoot them in the crotch*.
The problem with defending your "castle" with deadly force against a violent entry by law enforcement is that you are very likely to end up as one of the dead. They don't stop shooting until there's nothing left moving. A lose lose situation.
So, set them on fire before the violation occures. Kill them with fire, like with zombies.
So be it. I love law enforcement who takes their oath to protect and defend seriously. I have nothing but contempt for Constitution-violating traitors. They are scum. You don't know they are law enforcement if they are tearing in with a chain-saw, and they are violating your Constitutional rights! I'd rather die a free citizen, than live as a subject under unconstitutional tyranny. Any unlawful entry into my home will be at great cost to the attacker. I (as did everyone who ever wore a uniform) signed my life away on that line when I took an oath, knowing the cost may come due some day. Any victory traitors to freedom win will be temporary, and at great cost.
It's going to be a bad day when they come for a certain home! Both doors are steel security just like many front doors in a NYC apartment. The frames around the door are steel 4×4 and the next 4 studs are steel with bracing to the doors at the height of the deadbolts. Pad locks x2 door lock 1, Windows at ground level have clear solar film. Tear gas rounds will not go through the glass on the first shot and backup heavy drapes, that if they do make it through they fall to the floor. Pretty much negating a flash bang. In other words they can TRY to get through the door but it isn't happening. The front door has a foyer and it's going to be the same problem. Theirs! While someone is trying to break in the outgoing 911 will have them backing off from an impossible mission. The guy who built this house had gone through almost the same thing but it was punks not the police but it's the same thing. As soon as they make it through the front door you are screwed even if you are completely innocent BUT the idiots on swat teams will completely trash your home and guess who doesn't have to pay for it? Not the city!
His outlook on life now is whoever is beating on the door has all the time to figure out where they are screwing up! And as he puts it when he calls that 911 line they might as well stand there and listen to the call on the intercom speaker next to both doors!
If I were to build a home and after watching these investigative officers screwing up as much as they have been which we all get to watch on YT and the news I'll take my protection deeper! It looks like Kevlar curtains and that Kevlar drywall that's on the market.I wonder how roll up window protection works?
and you were a legal gun owner you might open fire…because the hell? someone is coming through your door with a chainsaw…guess what once they've come in and slaughtered you and your entire family…they'll probably charge you for defending yourself and dying with their bullets.
I think it is safe to say in this situation- someone cutting my door down before the sun was up with a chainsaw, I would go for my gun as well. This is clearly overboard and luckily this woman and her child were not hurt. However we have done this to ourselves as a nation. 200 years ago the laws and rules of the land were laid down very clearly and in our own ignorance we have allowed our federal and state governments to overstep the boundaries at every turn. Never too drastic and never all at once. But as time rolls on we slowly give up more and more, getting ourselves stuck in situations like this. The idea that government officials cut down the door to a citizens home with a chainsaw and we as a nation debate on whether this even a crime or legal shows we have lost the picture. We all need to reread and understand our bill of rights and where the lines of power between the federal government, states rights and peoples God given rights lie in our country. Remember, you cannot drop a frog into a boiling pot of water, it will jump out. You have to put him in water he is comfortable in and slowly turn on the heat. then they boil to death
Really? This was excellent use of the taxpayer's money?
Put the lawsuit up for bid from local attorneys.
If it's so "dangerous" to knock on the door of a drug dealer, why doesn't the FBI quietly clear the building of the dozens of tenants who would get caught in the hypothetical gun battle the FBI supposedly expect?
And a chainsaw? Really? Is that the fastest way to get through a door? My guess is they like the noise.
exactly. Or surround and block the exits… announce your presence, displaying your warrant, and wait. Wearing a uniform is not a safe job, nor is it supposed to be. You cannot sacrifice the freedom of citizens so you can terrorize them with chain saws and guns in their faces.
>Eventually the feds figured out they were in the wrong spot
Eventually. This is disgraceful. Legalize ALL drugs — treatment for people who can't handle their poisons would be cheaper and a lot more normal than the insane War On Drugs Nixon started and which we continue EVEN THOUGH JUST ABOUT EVERYONE AGREES IT'S NOT WORKING!
They crossed the line and put inocent people in danger and caused damage, It's not justice for all anymore, Fire these guy's and put them on the steets and dont even let them in a homeless shelter.
Ch-Ching!! I believe she has a few lawyers on her answering machine now…..
That's enough of this crap…time to amend these laws: death penalty for ANY officer of the law that makes these egregious mistakes as well as those who authorize this crap. You want to bring war on your own citizens? Then you should have to pay the price when you mess up.
Bow down and worship the law enforcer. He can do no wrong, and is morally superior to you. Yeah, right….
This IS a police state, not "will be."
You're door next.
Bow down and worship the law enforcer. He can do no wrong, and is morally superior to you. Yeah, right….
This IS a police state, not "will be."
Your door next.
Ron Paul is right …End the racist war on drugs and on our civil liberties
So, the FBI now thinks its the TSA?
""That's when I heard the clicking of a gun and I heard 'FBI, get down!', so I laid right on down."
PLEASE FBI Try this at my home! You'll hear me say
HOMEOWNER! Prepare to meet your maker!! You may kill me, but I will take at least one of you with me.
Law enforcement has absolutely no qualms about risking their agents' or law-abiding citizens' lives — and it really needs to be held to account.
You know, I am damned mad at a supreme court that let's the government confiscate someone's cash or property and make the owner prove it's not tainted by illegal drug activity.
I'm mad at a supreme court that says that no-knock warrants are OK, when time and time again, law enforcement shows how inept it really is.
The cops can take your money, burst into your home in the wee hours of the morning and even kill you because they are inept and scared.
This is no longer the land of the free.
We now live in a police state. Government thugs are nothing more than terrorists.
Now we know what it is like to live in a totalitarian society.
Maybe the FBI would think twice before knocking down a door if someone at the wrong door exercised their 2nd amendment rights to defend themselves from illegal entry.
Bad thing is she will probably be charged for being in the wrong apartment. As for the intelligent and highly trained police officers that tore down the wrong door, terrorized a three year old child, and all around screwed up the operation…….well it administrative leave with pay……..or in civilian non union terms a paid vacation.
That's what an interaction with GOVERNMENT is usually like… While we can't have private market-participants enforce the laws, but we must keep the government out of everything else: transportation, healthcare, education, retirement, housing…
All this new power to the FBI and Police via technology and hardware. You think things would get better… hows that workn out for everyone?
Hey it was the FBI. She was lucky they did not burn the place down and kill all of the women and children then claim her daughter fired first.
Even the Nazis didn't use chainsaws. As the US police state grows, it will eventually make the Nazis look like amateurs, and that day is coming sooner than you think.
were they looking for the guys who turned over hero cop sgt terry yeakers crime scene with shovels and then went around threatening police officers to stop asking questions about it?
If this was one of the "judge-less" search warrants these morons issue with the Patriot Act then every officer involved should be arrested and charged with at least: B&E, assault, destruction of private property, trespassing, and 2 counts each of unlawful imprisonment and kidnapping.
I think we need to look at the big picture here..there are many on here who think that this accident is ok because theythink that getting one gun off the streets is better than having someone die later by it. but the fact is they are rounding up the guns so that when they decide to impose their will on you, you have nothing to fight back with. todays world has many very desperate people in it, lots losing their home to the banksters, the right to free speech is being removed and worst of all they are waring against nations who did nothingto us. we have our western war machine giving arms to rebels to remove govts that are not complying to our pokicies so out with the old and in with th enew bankster regime.
the problem hereis that the terrorists some of you claim are out there are really your own govt, they have been going around terrorizing the people with fake operations so they can continue to pass bills that take away your liberties. maybe what you epopl eneed to do is realize that without work or any way to feed our families people are going to get desperate, this falls on the govt who has been allowing the corporations to destroy all industry in the west. maybe if they decide to grow some balls and say enough then maybe th epeople might say ok we can back a govt thats working for us, but when they continue to give your tax dollars away for nothing other than to help the banks keep taking your houses then they obviously have no regard for their own people.
anyways this is no little mistake, this shows that they can get away with this stuff and not be punished fo rit terrorizing alittle girl and her mother si going to have a big efect on that little girl. its time to wake up america these things have been getting worse as days go by, and when it happens to you i want to hear you say that its ok because im pretty sure you will be up in arms and freaking out over it.
keep your guns ur going to need it once they start rounding you up, remmeber the bolshoviks killed 60 million christians in the USSR, the grandchildren of those bolshoviks now rule the USA.
Unfortunately, if this lady had been armed and to used it to protect herself (from what she could tell) from some chainsaw wielding "wierdo"; a cache of drugs and firearms would have magically appeared in her apartment.
"I am the Lord thy Government, you shall have no other gods before me & I am never wrong".
Why no mention of the father? Could we have YET ANOTHER single mother?
The Level of Incompetence is ASTOUNDING–SUE FOR THEIR BADGES AND EVERYONE IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND…
Please will someone start shooting these pigs when they do this!!!!! They ARE NOT getting the wrong apartments or houses people!! Figure it out – they are TESTING US TO SEE WHEN/IF we will EVER fight them back in preparations for gun confiscation. These nazi pigs should have been dead the moment that chainsaw hit that door!! Do it in the south you pigs!
At least they were considerate about the dog. Seriously.
Unfortunately mistakes can happen. But these agents were professional enough to not be gang-bangers themselves.
Only Ron Paul will fix our broken country now.
Judy, honey. Get a lawyer. Get the best lawyer that you can find and go straight to their ass with every bit of life that you have in you..
Good thing they made this mistake in a state that doesn't recognize the 2nd Amendment!
Lady, it's OBAMA TIME!!!! That was just a drill for the real thing! You're but the first in a long line of 300 million! O-BA-MA TIME, lady, DOWN wit' cha! BOO!
You can't expect government workers to know the alphabet.
Sounds like typical government thuggery. I imagine that one of these days their going to get their asses handed to them.
What amazes me is when something like this happens and these blogs start, there are always a group of cops and cop apologist who see absolutely no wrong with these situations. Even more outrageous, is that they insult those who disagree with their police state mentality and always preach that there will be gloom and doom if they don't do this.
Most of this wasteful activity comes from the ridiculous "War on Drugs". We have spent over 6 trilllion dollars on this "war" since Nixon instituted it back in the early 70's. Today, you can go to any major citiy in America, and in less than a hour you could probably find your drug of choice. Weed, coke, meth..etc…So what is the point?? Prohibition never works!!! Never has!!! Prohibition does nothing but increase crime and violence. LEO is not dumb. Look at the states that have "castle" or "no retreat" doctrine. LEO doesn't use no-knock raids as much in those states but don't have a problem with it in municipalities where the citiizenery is unarmed for the most part (MA, NY,..etc)
Some one else posted this earlier, and I totally agree…The government is using this facist totalitarian tactic to gradually numb us and dumb us down. No matter wihat happens in these raids, LE always comes out of it with "No wrong doing" verdict by their self appointed watchers.
Nothing will change for the better until enough pig corpses start piling up in the streets.
An apology doesn't cut it for what these pigs and thugs did to an innocent family.
Sorry but I think someone should get fired for this kind of thing. Police/FBI whatever, they need to be held accountable.
just curious: at the point the chainsaw was buzzing through the door, and prior to announcing their presence as a law enforcement entity, wouldn't it be within the right of the resident to arm themselves and deploy its force towards the door? No knock warrants are bullcrap! What if she had a flashlight in her hand as they entered and they had mistaken it for a weapon and shot her? What if it is was a real gun? The problem is, IT IS HER RIGHT TO HAVE A WEAPON!!!! Who do they think they are to deprive a citizen of her peace and safety by busting down her door? Are we in the Soviet Utopian Amerika already?
End Prohibition and there wouldn't be any profit in illegal drugs. Of course a bunch of cops would have to find something else to do. Read Milton Friedman, Bill Buckley and Ayn Rand. Prohibition is the problem, How much longer are the American People going to suffer under this insanity.
The Second Amendment has already for most intents and purposes been abolished in Massachusetts. Citizens have to buy their firearms on the black market, keep them at home and hope that the Massachusetts Gestapo never catch them.
Friedman also supported libertarian policies such as legalization of drugs and prostitution. During 2005, Friedman and more than 500 other economists advocated discussions regarding the economic benefits of the legalization of marijuana.[46] (wikipedia)
Friedman and many other thinkers recognize correctly that the free market works better at controlling "vice" than prohibition and the Black Market.
I wouldn't like to be on the wrong end of that scenario…thugs use a chain saw to get into my apartment???? In my part of the USA they be….oh wait this is in Boston, a foreign country…never mind.
This is wrong, wrong WRONG.
But they don't care.
And it won't stop
unless we make them stop it.
CBS is a scam. It's not 9:08 PM idiots.
CBS, fake but accurate. Remember that?
Yuk, I hate the taste of jackboot in the morning…
Hmmm…does this mean that Obamadinejad's brownshirts "acted stupidly"?
These are the type of government geniuses who will running your health care in a few years.
Americans – You will obey your new police state!!
At the sound of the chainsaw, my home defense weapon would have greeted the thugs with rounds that do not pay attention to doors or body armor…..
Only in Obama and Eric Holder's Incompetent AmeriKKKa would this happen
This is unacceptable behavior the Police, FBI whatever should never resort to cutting through a door with a chainsaw. What a mess this would have been if it were my house as soon as the chainsaw came through my door I would have began firing to defend the lives of my family, then likely they would have returned fire possibly killing my kids. UNACCEPTABLE. Those responsible for this mistake should be criminally charged and also sued personally for every thing they own.
(yeah, like you wouldn't be blaming Bush)
You are fool that is partly to blame why we are where we are in America, i can't believe you just said that./\\ thes police have way TOO much power now to begin with and to say " oh it's ok you just traumatized my daughter for the REST of her life after a 2 YEAR INVESTIGATION" . for crying out loud. after 2 years, you would think they would have had umpteen miles of video fixated on his door, not his neighbors, this is completely and unconditionally UNACCEPTABLE. period.;
This is why they don't pull this type of stuff, in Virginia or Texas. Also, who prepared the affidavit of search and who read the affidavit and did it have bogus information in it? I'll bet RELA MONEY, that the judge in this case, who signed off the affidavit, is not amused.
At least the DEA's Clandestine Lab Enforcement Team uses an old fashioned battering ram, not a chain saw.
Well, of course you're right! Surely this:
must be faked, since the Houston "Law Enforcement" would never act in such a manner.
And by the way, I'm confident that every one of their Brothers in Blue in that department has publicly condemned their actions. Aren't you?
Everyone in the FBI involved with this fiasco needs to be fired.
Chainsaw before announcing who they were? Better hope it doesn't become a tie with my Mossberg.
If you're not going to say who you are, I suggest you come in firing already.
Welcome to Obama's World.
Vote a straight GOP ticket this November.
What happens when they get the wrong apartment and the person in the apartment thinks it's a home invasion and he comes up with his gun he has for his families protection. I suppose the cops just gun down the innocent person? They should be sued big time. They don't have to do it that way. They can wait until someone comes out of the apartment and aprehend the person then. I know I know. It's no fun for the cops that way.
Obviously, these trolls were on loan from the T.S.A.
Hockey masks would have been a nice touch. ; )
Thier battering ram was in the shop.
Obama likes people to be fearful.
Please don't blame the FBI guys. They were most likely products of the public school system. They still have trouble remembering the 'R' is the one that is closed and the 'F' is the one that is open.. It's not their fault they are confused. You should be blaming the union teacher who was most likely reading his/her newspaper instead of teaching on alphabet day.
The nazi swine who did this should be fired. Of course they will get medals instead.
Had they come to my house people would have been dead and they likely would have shot me too. I would have been shooting through that door and reloading. If they later stated they were FBI or Police NO WAY would I have believed them. Since when to police chainsaw a door when you can knock it open in under 1 second.
We know these thugs have to eventually return to work. We know they live in our communities. We know they have families. Wives and children, mothers and fathers. We know they have their superiors and bosses they answer to. And they have homes and wives and children too. We know where public officials work and where they live and their wives and children go to work or school. We are either served by our elected officials or they rule over us not as citizens but as peasents. If harm ever comes to one of my family members by those who commited such an act will wish they were never born. Patience and planning would show them they made a very big error that would result in their paying the price. I love my family and would rather die than let thugs like these get away with terroizing my family. and No One, no matter what his position would be spared. Our police the FBI and any other agencies are to serve We The People not rule over us or terrorize our family or neighbors. We either stand together, or eventually hang separately. We need a new law called the Fair Justice Act. And local citizens would control hearings and create courts to ensure victims would be able to receive justice from their peers. Our court systems and elected officials have rendered us to mere peasents who's doors could be kicked down or now even chain sawed and our loved ones having guns held on them. These cowardly incompetant thugs weilding dangerous weapons who cannot even read an adress or apartment numbers on doors should not have the power to knock down doors, use force at gun point on our loved ones only to realize oops we screwed up yet again. These cowards forced her to lay in urine for 35 minutes. what cowards feared this woman so much that they could not see the fear in her eyes and could not hear the child crying. Or was it that they enjoyed the atmosphere they created and got their rocks off on seeing this woman suffer the agony of not being able to comfort a child who is in total fear and not having their mother come to comfort them after hearing a chain saw rippng through a door that was incredibly loud as hell. And for 35 minutes. These peices of $hit deserve to get shot in their screwed up heads and maybe their families will get a taste of what they dish out to others. Keep it up A–holes and I hope ya get lead in your faces.
Robert your kind won't get far in this world buddy. Sympathize with nazi pig thugs? LOL…These dumb f#%ks are way out of line!
Knock, knock, the government is here to help you! Please stay calm, and extend your right hand or forehead so you can be scanned and properly identified.
Get a 7.62 mm round rifle and the next time someone decides to cut thru the door aim knee high and rapid fire starting six feet to the side of the door and finishing six feet on one side of the door, reload and repeat.
The FBI is a Buggerment agency. We are talking about our Buggerment, not our Government.
WOW is the FBI really that stupid, wrong door? I have to think if someone was coming through my door with a chainsaw without first identifying themselves they would likely be welcomed by a 12 guage full of 00 buckshot! These guys better review their rules of engagement before someone gets hurt. Their side and the publics side because alot of us out here are prepared for a violent intruder!
Has anyone in the FBI ever heard of something called a MASTER KEY? It allows the landlord to enter any apartment in an emergency. No damage, no noise . . .
The FBI like every police agency swears to uphold the law and the Constitution of the United States. I think they need to read the Bill of Rights. Gentlemen you are in violation of your oath of office.
The words Professional Behavior comes to mind. What part of Search Warrant didn't the FBI understand? What part of procedures like identification didn't they understand? I feel this is conduct unbecoming of a police officer.
The rules protect everyone, not just the public, they protect the policemen in the valid use of their duties before the law. This is where respect for our officers of the law falls apart. Unprofessional conduct up and down the line.
If we have laws that violate the constitution, then we need to prosecute them before the law in the courts. The laws in violation of the constitution need to be declared unconstitutional and unvalid. Thrown off the books.
If our judges will not do this, then they need to be recalled or impeached.
I think a professional lawyer could get her a lot of money. More important, the agency needs to be disbanded if it cannot follow the constitution of this country.
That goes for any police agency that cannot maintain professional standards.
This is the United States of America, not Nazi Germany. The trend in that direction has to be firmly changed and anyone not following the highest law of this land needs to be fired.
If they can bring it to your doors, I get the feeling that one of these days, the citizens are gonna bring it to their doors. It can't remain so lopsided forever.
If they can bring it to your doors, I get the feeling that one of these days, the citizens are gonna bring it to their doors. It can't remain so lopsided forever.
And society just bends over and take it,
An apology and its "PK" to them.
And society just bends over and take it,
An apology and its "OK" to them.
A chainsaw? Really? I weigh150 lbs with wet clothes on and I could have kicked down that door whilst wearing my slippers in one go. That SWAT team's intention was to terrorize from the beginning, and they succeeded. Shame they terrified an innocent woman, her puppy, and her daughter.
Had it been ME on the other side of that door, I would have been loading the 12 gauge I keep next to my bed with as many shells as I could manage in the amount of time they wasted using a frickin' CHAINSAW on a hollow wooden door. Wow.
Forget the apology, you should be thanking your lucky stars these idiot feds didn't kill you and your baby in their botched raid.
Think of it. All the money and man hours that went into the investigation, or was even ten minutes spent on the investigation? I dont know which would be worse. The cops could have just sat in the bushes outside the door, or in a car, or dressed as contractors, or knock on the door while dressed as a UPS guy, and waited until the suspect opened the door of his own accord and exited the apartment. The suspect would be in clear view, in the open, unsuspecting. Instead the cops love to break down doors at 5am, risk their own lives for the adrenaline rush, risk the lives of anyone in the building (bullets go through walls). They did the same damn thing at Waco – rushed into a fortified compound with guns blazing rather than simply accosting David Koresh during one of his frequent trips into town. Too many of these cops are steroid junkies just out to play army, and how they loving wearing black tactical gear. They should grow up and use some wisdom in how they perform their arrests instead of acting like crazed maniacs with chainsaws. Chainsaws? This past year a similar botched raid killed a young girl, and another killed a vet who assumed they were home invaders because, god forbid, they announce themselves clearly as police as they scream over the rattle of a chain saw and break down the doors.
Think of it this way; This time they didn't use tanks and burn you alive.
so whos going to get real and stand the hell up.What you all afraid all talk the talk but thats it.Everyone knows this is wrong and things have gone way to far.So why do we sit on our ass and do nothing over three quarters of Americans dont vote so why do you let these people lead your land wake the hell up
I spent 36 years in law enforcement; a retired federal agent; I've kicked in a lot of doors and arrested 100's of people but I never kicked in a wrong door. It is called doing your homework, surveillance and planning, and knowing what you are doing.
As far as I am concerned, there is no excuse for such a mistake.
This was suppose to be the culmination of a 2-yr investigation? A guy moved into the apt above me and I knew the first day he was dealing drugs out of the apt. I called the Drug Field Office, told them what I was witnessing and they told me I was correct in my assumptions. I gave them his description, the cars he drove (including tag #s), apt being used and all locations in and around the bldg he was meeting buyers. One week later they put agents around the bldg doing things like mowing the lawn, etc. and they busted him on the first sale and cleaned out his apt. He was gone. I don't sit around watching this stuff going on, I act. People need to stop waiting for someone else to help them.
Also, have friends on police force who take part in these investigations and they never make this kind of mistake. How can someone be watched for 2 years and no one on the SWAT Team be aware of the correct door to bust in? Are they not sending at least one person who has been watching this person with the SWAT Team?
…that presumes the "constitutionality" of the war on drugs,…which it isn't,…and also presumes that the business of your neighbor,…is any of your business,….I've known many a "drug-dealer",…and to a man (or woman),..all they want is to be left alone to pursue their completely constitutional endeavors,….but, for some idiot reason,…people like you seem to think you have a right to be in other peoples business, bodies and checkbooks,…you would have fit in well with the NKVD or KGB,…however, I do wonder how such a slimy-busy-body such as yourself would want to stay in America,…perhaps you'd be better suited to North Korea,…
..sad, so very sad some of you people are,…and you do not even know it,…
RJ O'Guillory
Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family
It is only in the states that have become police states within the country that this typically happens. In states where there is a little of the Constitution still recognized, a chainsaw through the door would be met with a hail of bullets.
Hanlon's Razor applies here: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
The FBI should settle this out of court – FAST.
Hanlon's Razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
She claims she SAW the chainsaw blade coming through her front door. She sleeps on the floor or couch or chair right next to her front door????? She's already exaggerating to get more money out of the police/feds … but that doesn't excuse them for making such a terrible mistake. Someone's going to be fired for this one (at least should be)!
Funny, the article mentions nothing about whether the true subjects of the warrant were arrested…. Oh well….
Does anybody have the number of a good lawyer???
If you are terrorized by the government you have no means of getting relief, if your daughter is traumatized by the Feds you get no recompense, only an apology that isn't.
Keep thinking that this is the greatest country in the world, that we're the land of the free and so on. Keep watching Dancing with the Vaguely Familiar. You're not losing your rights or freedoms. This would never happen to you. Move along, citizen, you're not doing anything wrong so you have nothing to fear. Or do you?
As soon as the blade came through the door I'da emptied the Mossberg.
These things are going to continued until the thugs that participate in these "wrong house-wrong apartment" raids are made accountable and that their jobs, pensions, futures, and freedom depend upon raiding the "right house-right apartment."
These things are going to continue until the thugs that participate in these "wrong house-wrong apartment" raids are made accountable and that their jobs, pensions, futures, and freedom depend upon raiding the "right house-right apartment."
It sounds like the FBI went in both fast and furious.
Sue the jackbooted thugs for millions. If you put a big dent in their budget, maybe next time they will double check addresses before they terrorize innocent people.
Chainsaws are ment to cut down trees and buck logs, NOT cut open doors. If the chainsaw operator had hit a metal bar or a door chain, the results could have caused serious harm. What happened to the good old fashoned battering ram?
What if someone had approached the door and suddenly that chainsaw comes through the door and the person behind it?
I am frankly surprised that these thugs with badges didn't plant some illegal drugs or weapons at the scene to "justify" this raid. That is usually the case with local law enforcement to cover themselves. Probably, in the future, this exactly what these particular FBI agents will do. In other words, they will "learn from their mistakes."
The "law enforcement" and the TSA are turning into an American version of the German Gestapo! Are these agent going to be held responsible for this heinous act?? Every agent involved should have to personally apologize to Mrs. Sanchez and her daughter. The agents all need to go back through some basic training, to ensure in the future, they're more careful about abusing their power!
The real problem? Cops have substituted FIREPOWER for good old fashion police work,,,lazy and porrly motivated. Just like WACO, they could have arrested Koresh any saturday afternoon when came to town, but they chose the BIG RAID for th cameras, and money. Same situation here, they could have sat on the Apt and when the SUSPECT walked out, arrest him. Nope, chainsaws and swat teams at 5 am were the order of the day. It's easier to shoot first and ask questions later for the cops.
There is nothing you can do except sue later.
A guy around here shot the pigs who mistakenly entered his home at 4am and now HE is in prison for the pigs mistake!
Cops should be MORE CAREFUL.
A chainsaw? Really? Don't they know how to bust down a door anymore? They might as well have donned one of those Friday 13th hockey masks too.
I can honestly say that if this would have happened in a state where guns are the norm. It could/would have ended in a blood bath.
Waco….Ruby Ridge…Fitchburg? No knock, arrest of citizens without warrants, no trial, no sentencing…..folks, we have a big problem here…….1984 is not just a book….
If I catch anyone breaking into my home they're going to catch some .308 rounds once the door is breached.
Illegal search and seizure – fundamental 4th amendment rights violated! Whether they had a warrant for ANOTHER apartment or not, they BROKE IN AND TERRORIZED the WRONG apartment.
Get a lawyer – and sue them! This won't stop until someone stands up to these thugs. And law suits are the ONLY thing that might get through to them. Plus getting the word out about their police-state un-Constitutional raid.
A man's home is his castle. The only way the plice can enter my home is to show me a warrent signed by a judge. If they ignore this rule they are liable to be killed, although the home owner will likely die as well.
I wonder how much the American Tax payer will be sued for over this one. The FBI needs a swift kick in the ass.
My blood ran cold when I read this story. I sympathize with this poor woman and her daughter. I can't help but think of what would have happened if this had been my home.
There would have been 12 ga. double-ought buckshot flying through that door, and the first fools who entered would have had their heads removed by the same loads.
Then, I'd be dead or hauled off to prison.
Nope, these are nothing more than jack booted thugs who operate with impunity against all too many innocent and law abiding citizens. This type of entry needs to stop, you can arrest a suspect on the street, you don't need to break into their home.
I hope all involved are fired, and that the poor woman has recourse to sue.
Hum first Obama sells guns to drug lords and get one of his border people killed now Obama has his FBI out rousting innocent people.
4 more years 4 more years 4 more years.
Isn't there a human rights violation here.
I would bet they did not have a search warrant to chainsaw down this ladies door.
Sue the federal government for millions or billions, hey it's only Obama's money we are talking about.
Stupid clueless federal beauracrats!
Was it a stealth saw? "Just like the white man! Always sneaking up on the Indian."
Outlaw Josie Wales. (sp_
i dont know the problem of knocking on the door and identifying yourself…if you get fire from the inside then you know you have the right place then, kick down the door and get your subject…if someone comes to the door with sleep hair and eyes, you can bet you have the wrong place…it is getting to the point the government is over reaching and someone is going to get killed innocently, no not innocently, someone is guilty of not being sure of their decisions…that is where incompentencei is rewarded with charges of assult…not just blown off with, we are sorry…no, that wont get it!! am afraid if i would have got to a gun when someone was using a chainsaw on my door, somone is going to get hot lead in them…..what would you think???
take any one of those incompentent officers, given the same situation, only with them on the other side of the door, as them what they would have thought or done?? i am sure, if they answer honestly, they would have been scramling for a weapon to ward off someone invading into their home, threateining their family!!
No knock warrants should be illegal..In the past few years I have heard of innocent grandfathers getting shot (alleged mistake by Framingham SWAT?) little girls sleeping on couches getting shot, War verterans getting shot, dogs getting shot..we are giving up our home security for what.. some one who wants to get high and someone who wants to make money off that? Really..Let em self destruct and defend your own home.
They should be very glad it was not my home or they would still be carting the bodies away and legally they would not have a leg to stand on.
THIS is what the drug war has degraded to. We must a;; WAKE UP!
Would have thought Jason was coming through the door and probably had a stroke. Even with a warrant, someone in the chain of command needs to be responsible for final Q,C. and seeing if a raid passes the B.S. factor. Probable cause, right address, right identity, etc. Also question if there are better locations to take down the suspect. Why not get them when they are leaving, driving or coming out of work, etc.? Similar questions should have been asked with the young former Marine who was killed in Tucson last year. It happens all too often.
I would have been killed because the first thing I would have done is grabbed my 45 and start shooting.
I go for the head shot so a few of them would have gone down before I did.
Later after the bodies have been removed they would realize they had the wrong apartment. There would be no News reports, no explanations…Just a dead guy with a gun license mistook the SWAT for whatever…Just a vet that went berserk…
Those stupid Fks
A mistake like that should get someone fired!
I read a news story a number of years ago about how agents (not the FBI) raided a home and a female agent deliberately stomped a kitten and killed it for no reason.
I was disgusted when I read that news story. I can only guess that she was trying to show how " tough" she was. There is something wrong with somebody who would do something like that.
By the way, the news story said that no charges were ever brought against anyone at that house.
The fact that no charges were brought, is a crime.
Whatever happened to "we have a warrant to search you home"? Fourth Amendment, people! They must have a warrant, issued with probable cause, telling where they are searching and what they are searching for. (This is why TSA searches are unconstitutional.) They may have had probable cause, but they obviously got the where wrong. Our gov't shouldn't enter a house like this, warrant or not.
Pathetic…FBI, just pathetic.
Agencies and agents seem to forget one thing: we pay their salary; they work for us. Yes, I want them to vigorously pursue criminals but they need to dummy up and remember who the boss is, and start showing some honest respect for CITIZENS.
Wow. I have worked in law enforcement over 30 years, including being involved in coordinating drug raids and working with SWAT teams. Unfortunately mistakes do occur due to bad information, etc. but I have never, ever heard of anyone using a chainsaw to breach a door for any reason. I'm dumbfounded that a Federal law enforcement agency would authorize such an action. Some heads definitely need to roll on this one!
" I'm dumbfounded that a Federal law enforcement agency would authorize such an action. Some heads definitely need to roll on this one!"
I agree completely.
First off, a chain saw is just plain stupid. From a safety standpoint, it's totally irresponsible. What if… Someone walked up to the door? What if a kid was on the other side? What if there was a mechanical issue, and someone got hurt with the chain saw blade. It'd be bad enough if it was an agent but if it were an innocent? It'd be a certain career ender, and rightly so, for the agent, and the individual in charge that authorized this tactic.
But from a practical standpoint it should be career ending.
It alerts the potential bad guys.
It's slower than just a ram. BAM and you're in.
It can EASILY be defeated by any half-brained idiot bad guy, if they ju