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Are Wall Street's Youth Defecting? Occupy Interviews Kevin Roose
Posted 5 years ago on March 18, 2014, 11:57 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Tags: Wall Street, Kevin Roose, Young Money
While a rag-tag group of young activists were setting up tents in Zuccotti Park, New York Magazine writer Kevin Roose was occupying Wall Street with a very different mission: to get inside the lives of Wall Street's new recruits. From the other side of the barricades, Roose finds himself immersed in a world of over-worked and morally bewildered young bankers. He writes about his experience in his new book, Young Money – Inside the Hidden World of Wall Street's Post-Crash Recruits.
Justin Wedes sat down with Kevin via Skype recently to ask him about his multi-year dive into the depths of Wall Street:
JW: This isn't your first book. Before Young Money you went undercover to a semester at "America's Holiest University". Tell me about that.
KR: That's right. Liberty University, which was founded by basically the most conservative televangelists in America.
JW: Tell me about how this experience was similar or dissimilar to the last book you wrote.
KR: One of the things that attracted me to Wall Street as a topic, in 2010 when I started the book, is that it's an area that many people feel very strongly about but that there wasn't much actual information about out there.
We've all read the books and seen the movies about the financial crisis and we feel like we understand what the CEO's of these big firms were doing and how they acted/reacted. But no one had really ever gone inside the trenches, to the 1,000's of young people who come to Wall Street to start working their way up the ladder. I was curious after the crisis: why would any 22 year-old want to do this?
Also, how are they educated? How do you take someone fresh-faced and turn them into a Wall Street banker?
JW: You followed eight Wall Street recruits, right?
KR: Yes, and they were all doing this unauthorized. These firms did not permit me to talk to their employees, but the employees took a chance anyway even though they knew they could have been fired for talking to me… They'd be fired within 10 minutes.
I changed all of their names. I changed some details about them. That was part of the terms of participation. They said, "Look we'll be open with you, but you have to protect us."
JW: So what were some of the common threads you discovered as you were shadowing these eight young Wall Street bankers?
KR: We tend to think of Wall Street as this go-go, happy place where the cocaine and the champagne run freely and everyone is having the time of their lives. But for the eight young people…It's hard to feel sorry for people who are making so much money, but I almost did start to feel sorry for them. They're working 100 hour weeks. There's this thing called the "Banker 9 to 5" where you get in at 9am and you work until 5 am the next morning, so a twenty-hour shift. They were just completely miserable.
JW: We have what's called the "Occupy Wall Street 9 to 5", but it's in a media tent in the middle of Zuccotti Park. You mention Occupy a few times in the book. Question: What was it like to be on the other side of the barricades?
KR: I think Occupy was a turning point for my book and a lot of the people in my book because it came about halfway through my reporting. For the CEOs at the big banks, I don't think many of them truly paid attention. It wasn't really on their radar. But for the young people – imagine, you're 22 years old and you've just gone to work for a big investment bank. Many of your friends and roommates are involved in the Occupy movement. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance there. I talked to one guy who was working at Goldman Sachs who said, "It's very weird to be on this side of things, to be the one in the office looking out at the protests, and knowing that they're protesting, in some part, what I'm doing."
So I think it was very odd for them and it also led to some real social fallout where people had gotten used to not talking about what they did when they went out. I talked to several of them who said they no longer say they're a banker when they go out to bars. There's too much of a stigma attached.
JW: Interesting. I'm trying to compare this to some of the experiences I've documented as an independent journalist covering Occupy protesters in the various different encampments across the country. You know, one of the critiques of OWS was that it was largely young, white, well-educated people. And that's not, obviously, the entire truth. At the height of the movement we did see a beautiful cross-section of Americans. But I still believe that to be a very legitimate critique. Many of these young people at Occupy protests may have come out of the same elite or second-tier universities that your bankers came from. What kind of emotions and comparisons did that evoke when you spoke to them about Occupy?
KR: Well, there's one scene in the book where I go up to Yale University during their sort-of Wall Street recruiting season. Traditionally, about 25% of their graduates go to work on Wall Street. I went up there during the height of the protests and there was actually an Occupy Yale movement had sprung up. Part of what they were doing was challenging their classmates, saying "Why are you going into finance? You are a talented film-maker or a talented historian or there are any number of things you could be doing. You went to Yale. You can have your pick, so why are you doing this thing that seems so useless."
They actually stood outside the recruiting sessions of big banks like Morgan Stanley holding signs that said things like DON'T GO INTO FINANCE or MORGAN STANLEY IS BORING!
I think it really had an effect. I talked to one Yale professor who compared it to ROTC recruiting during the Vietnam War. He said, "There's this real feeling that there's a tension brewing and that something is very amiss when we have students sort of turning against their fellow students."
JW: It sounds like on college campuses this was a real dialogue that was happening. Do you get the sense that on Wall Street this was happening as well, or did these banker's lifestyles insulate them from some of the critiques of their career?
KR: It certainly didn't insulate them from criticism, because they started to lie about where they worked when they went out beyond their finance bubble. I think there's an interesting phenomenon that I observed among these eight young finance bankers where I observed that there's a kind of compartmentalization going on. They have these very demanding jobs that require attention to very small details and doing Excel spreadsheets and making PowerPoint presentations. That takes up the majority of their brain cells. It's very rare that they have the time or the energy to step back and contemplate the sort-of bigger issues: "What am I doing with my life? Is this creating value?" It's almost like triage in their brains.
"Maybe I have misgivings about this, maybe I sympathize with the Occupy movement, but right now I have this Excel spreadsheet due in ten minutes and if I don't get it done my boss is going to scream at me so I better get the excel spreadsheet done and worry about the big picture stuff later."
JW: Did you get the sense that their bosses – in other words the Associates and the higher-ups – sensed a kind of hesitation amongst these young recruits? Did they respond in any way?
KR: There's a huge change in morale right around the time of the Occupy movement and part of that was because of things going on in the financial sector: you had layoffs, bonuses that were shrinking, firms that were closing. This was a bad time for Wall Street regardless of what Occupy was doing. But then you add Occupy to it and I think it created a crisis of conscience and a sort of self-awareness that hadn't been there before in young people worked on Wall Street. People asking themselves "maybe this isn't what I want to do with the rest of my life."
In the book, I talk to at least a handful of people who saw that as a moment where they realized "maybe I want to be starting a tech company" or "maybe I want to be working in something that's a little closer to my passion". I think that was something that banks were a little late to catch on to. Now they're trying to catch up and deal with it and stop the brain drain.
JW: At Occupy Wall Street we saw a couple of what I like to call the "Wall Street defectors". Alexis Goldstein is a good example. She's been an outspoken critic of Wall Street since she left Wall Street to join Occupy. Are there more of these now, leaving Wall Street at a young age to join tech companies, or non-profits or government?
KR: I don't think any of the eight people that I followed join the Occupy movement and it would surprise me if they did because I think they've all moved onto new jobs or are still on Wall Street. I would say that going to Silicon Valley, as so many people of done, is a form of protest. It's not always easy to see that. To a lot of people that just looks like following the money. But if you really ask people why they're doing this – why this shift is happening – it turns out that a lot of people want to feel good about what they do. They don't want to have protesters outside their window. They don't want to be hated for trading derivatives or what-have-you. That reflects a shift in the millennial consciousness. You have people that not only want to make a lot of money but also want to feel good about what they're doing for the world while they're making it.
JW: Has Wall Street's culture changed since 2008?
KR: Yes, absolutely. I think Wall Street has changed in many ways. It's obviously not a total change and I would say more change is needed. But I would say the lessons being imparted to young people – some of the bosses are still hanging on to the old Wall Street culture. But I talked to one analyst who put it pretty succinctly. He said this isn't like the days of 2007: the bosses who do cocaine off a stripper's ass are not there anymore. This is a very different financial sector than the one that existed in 2006.
JW: Now, at the same time, you documented sneaking into the Kappa Beta Phi secret society dinner at the St. Regis. Could you talk about that and perhaps how it shows that Wall Street's culture isn't changing?
KR: So the Kappa Beta Phi dinner was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. It was a secret society of Wall Street executives formed in 1929 during the Great Depression. It's a sort of friar's club for the 1%.
So I snuck into this. I was the only reporter who has ever gotten in the door. I sat there and watched as these millionaire and billionaire financiers, dressed up in drag, told off-color sexist and homophobic jokes. Actually, one of the young analysts that I later told about it said it sounded like something Occupy would make up as propaganda for the movement because it was so evil. These people were just laughing about the bailouts and doing skits about the Occupy movement. It was one of the most offensive things I've ever seen purely on a citizen level.
I was depressed and thought "OK, perhaps Wall Street hasn't changed" but when I talked to the young analysts they thought it was as ridiculous as I did. So that cheered me. That made me think that maybe the next generation is going to be a little bit better because they weren't asking "Where do I sign up?" but rather "This is totally ridiculous. I can't believe this exists. What a terrible idea!"
JW: So there was a different sentiment amongst older and younger bankers. I have to ask, though, for all of the thousands of Occupy supporters out there who want to know: What did they say about Occupy? What does it reveal about them?
KR: There was one skit with a guy who runs a bond investing firm who went down to Zuccotti Park with a camera – this was a pre-taped skit – and he found a guy with a face tattoo and he said, "Wash it off! Get a job!" and stuff like that.
There was another skit where there was a private equity executive and a hedge fund executive who were sort-of role-playing. One was dressed up in tie-die and raggedy clothes as an Occupy sympathizer and another one in a suit as a 1%'er and they were tossing back and forth lines like "Why don't you take a bath, you dirty hippy?" and "We need to create jobs!". It was very offensive.
JW: Have there been any repercussions from that event from any of the people that you quoted?
KR: Not officially, but one of the people who made a homophobic and sexist joke about Hillary Clinton and Barney Frank had to issue an apology because he's a Trustee at the University of Richmond and the students were outraged.
JW: It's interesting because one of the main tenets underlying the Occupy movement is this notion of transparency. That if we could peak into this top-secret Wall Street culture people could judge for themselves what they think about it. Does your book do that?
KR: Absolutely. That's why I wrote it. I wanted to get inside this world and I was sick of just reading about CEOs filtered through the press apparatus. Forget the stereotypes, forget The Wolf of Wall Street. What are these people actually doing and what are they like? These are the stories of eight actual people who work in finance. It's the story of their lives and what they actually think about their work. And for me it was totally fascinating and I hope that other people will feel the same way.
JW: I have to agree there, Kevin. I think the book is absolutely eye-opening and it's actually a very human account of what is going on. It's very easy to abstract and say "Wall Street is this" or "Wall Street is that" but Wall Street is made up of human beings, many of them young people…
KR: Totally! Corporations are people! [both of us laugh]
JW: Of course, my friend! [sarcastically]
KR: I think it's important to separate the institutions from the individuals.
JW: I think some of the people on this end may want to see some accountability for the individuals instead of just accountability for the institutions, but that's a whole other question…
We talked about "has Wall Street changed?" In some ways it has, and in some ways hasn't. But after reading your book, it's clear that the young people on Wall Street have changed. In what ways have they changed, and does it reflect a larger change in young people in this country today?
KR: Absolutely. I think the change that's coming to Wall Street is a demographic tidal wave. It used to be for many years that if you went to Princeton, or Harvard or Yale orPenn – one of these Wall Street "feeder" schools – you went to Wall Street just because everyone else did it. Even if you were an art history major or a music major you could still get a job at a big Wall Street bank by virtue of where you'd gone to school. For many years it was sort of the default option. That's not really true anymore. Those that are going there now are the ones who truly want to be bankers. It's no longer the catch-all for Ivy League graduates. It's a little more professionalized. It's not the kind of crazy go-go atmosphere it used to be.
My hope is that when the people who are young today are running the show, they'll remember what it was like to be in the industry when finance was under the gun.
JW: I agree with you, but when I see the struggles of young bankers who are upset because they only got a $20,000 bonus it seems a bit petty in the context of the broader picture of the economy. Can you abstract from the experience of these eight young people any kind of statement about the larger population? Many people would probably say that they never even had the opportunity to be in the shoes of these young bankers.
KR: Totally.
JW: What do you see as the broader difficulties facing not just young Wall Street recruits but young people in general?
KR: Well, obviously, it's a tremendously hard time to be young in this economy and youth unemployment is still high and we're having all sorts of trouble still that's a result of the crisis. The thing that buoyed me and gave me a bit of optimism is that they weren't just pre-occupied with making money. Some of them were. But for most of them, money was not the foremost concern when they were thinking about their lives and what they want to accomplish.
One guy who talked to me is in private equity – living the dream, on the surface - and he said to me "The guys who really do shit in the world, the sort of Mark Zuckerbergs, the guy who created Instagram… those guys are not just sitting around in an office making Excel spreadsheets. They're out there in the world making stuff. So if there's one note of optimism about the next generation, it's that they're not just satisfied making a six-figure paycheck. Many of them, I would venture to say most of them, want to do something more productive."
JW: Kevin Roose, everybody. Author of Young Money – Inside the Hidden World of Wall Street's Post-Crash Recruits. Check out this book, it's great. Thanks, Kevin!
KR: Thank you for having me!
Justin Wedes is a Zuccotti, activist, educator, media-maker and community organizer. He is a stubborn optimist and sometimes-workaholic. You can read more about his work at his blog.


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In today's Remainders: the upcoming. The Spring Design Ereader, soon to be available for presale; 4chan's mainstream embrace, as signalled by their Jeopardy mention; an idiotic Mall Cop's impending termination; a backlash to RFID gravestones, and more.
Oh Alex? We thought the Spring Design Alex ebook reader was a viable threat to the Nook when we got a hands-on at CES, but those of you who were waiting patiently for its February 22 pre-order date will have to wait a little bit longer. The company's website is now saying that you'll be able to claim yours sometime in the first week of March. The last we heard, Alex will go for $US359. [SlashGear]
Oh Alex? I love Jeopardy. I also love Alex Trebek, and I've sort of forced myself into this fantasy that he, personally, is the one coming up with all of the answers he puts forward to the Jeopardy contestants every night. So I'm always tickled when something unexpected comes out of his mouth, and last night's 4chan clue definitely falls into the "unexpected" category. Though after Moot's TED talk, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that the internet's favourite rabble-rousers are hitting the mainstream. What are Lulz, Alex? [Yfrog via Laughing Squid]
Bored Board If you just can't keep your fingers off your smartphone, this new USB keyboard from Matias might be the one for you - it features a snug little nook above the arrow keys where your iPhone can hang out while you're doing some less mobile computing. But before you get ahead of yourself, the keyboard doesn't actually interact with your phone in any meaningful way: no docking, no syncing, no charging. Basically the Matias keyboard cuddles up to your smartphone all night long without giving it any real lovin'. And that's a shame. [GeekyGadgets]
Graveyard Tech There are bad ideas and then there are tasteless ideas, and this one flirts with the latter. RosettaStone is a system that looks to implant tombstones with RFID chips so that particular graves can be located more easily and epitaphs read wirelessly. I'm all about new technology making our lives more effective and more efficient, but in this case I'd certainly prefer the old-school hardware. True, tombstones don't last forever, but you can bet your arse that RFID won't either. [SlashGear]
SSD and Y-O-U We've explained in some detail why you should be craving an SSD, but for those of you who prefer pictures to words, check out the bit of this MacWorld video on SSDs in the MacBook Pro that starts at 3:36: a split screen comparison showing a regular old MacBook opening 10 applications simultaneously versus and SSD-equipped MacBook doing the same task. As you can likely imagine, the SSD MacBook tears through that shit like Grease Lightnin' while the standard MacBook is left in the dust, dock icons bouncin'. [MacWorld]
Oh Mall Cop Oh Mall Cop, you've really outdone yourself this time. In your ongoing quest to purge the shopping centre of all wrongdoing, you found a man who was taking pictures of a small child and accused him of being a paedophile. You threatened to arrest him for creating a disturbance, and you demanded that he delete the relevant picture off his camera. But wait, the accused was actually the child's father. Oh Mall Cop. [BoingBoing]
Felicity Before Star Trek or Alias or Lost, the esteemed JJ Abrams worked on a little show called Felicity. Now I didn't watch this show, but I've always been a little intrigued by it, mostly from reading about its bizarro fourth season which introduced time travel into the otherwise totally normal teen drama. Apparently that time travel involved jumping to sometime in the second quarter of 2010, because the Felicity characters, as seen in this clip, are totally overwhelmed by the huge selection of computers they have to choose from, including the iPad. Parenthetically, if anyone actually watched Felicity and can explain what exactly that time travel business is all about, feel free to report in the comments. [Macenstein]
Downfall's Downfall If you've been waiting patiently for the Wall Street Journal to write a thousand-word bit about the "Hitler getting angry about things" YouTube meme, well, today's your lucky day. In a lengthy entry in the Arts & Entertainment section, the writer traces the precedent, the influence, and the current state of the popular Downfall reworkings, a few of which we've featured here on Giz over the years. If you were every wondering how to determine the exact moment at which an internet phenomenon has run its course, I'd say in this case it's right. about. now. [WSJ]

subset: commoncrawl


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Hello, my name is John, and I am addicted to movies. My drug of choice is DVDs, especially since my local cineplex isn't exactly fighting to screen an Eric Rohmer retrospective or hosting a Godzillathon. Sometimes I find myself ordering a bunch of kung fu classics from a Hong Kongbased website at 2 a.m. I need help.
Western Digital WDTV Live Hub
It's a streamer! It's a server! Robust format support. USB keyboard compatible. Extremely easy to set up, especially remote-admin features. A/V quality is sharper than Carl Sagan's intellect. Simple and responsive interface. 1080p resolution: Suck it, AppleTV.
You can only search and browse for content on one device at a time. Cables and full manual not included. No built-in Wi-Fi and no Hulu support? We no like. Online streams can be slow to start. Some features can get buried in backwater sections of menu. Want to cut your cable bill? Ha, not with this.
How We Rate
- 1/10A complete failure in every way
- 2/10Sad, really
- 3/10Serious flaws; proceed with caution
- 4/10Downsides outweigh upsides
- 5/10Recommended with reservations
- 6/10Solid with some issues
- 7/10Very good, but not quite great
- 8/10Excellent, with room to kvetch
- 9/10Nearly flawless
- 10/10Metaphysical perfection
Help that is, with my massive DVD binder cases and slew of ripped files scattered across multiple computers. It can take me 20 minutes just to find the flick I want to watch, if I can find it at all. Did I mention I'd also like to cut my insane cable bill?
Thankfully, Western Digital's new WDTV Live Hub has arrived to try to save me from myself. The latest of WD's media streamers, the WDTV Live Hub faces an onslaught of buzz about AppleTV and GoogleTV, but it manages to organize and stream digital entertainment without much hassle. And unlike its competition, the Live Hub also includes a 1-terabyte storage drive for cramming in enough content for most users.
Like most media streamers, the WDTV is simple to navigate and responds to commands quickly. Some pretty-detailed setup options will have you tweaking everything to your liking, down to customizing subtitle style and font size. AV geeks will like the basic remote-admin features: Just type in the IP address into a web browser, and you can perform some basic functions like configure iTunes streaming and set up internet media sources.
There's even a virtual remote for the PC that looks just like the WDTV remote. Click a button with your mouse and you can control pretty much any WDTV function. It's pretty slick.
While there is a wicked-simple setup guide included in the box, you'll have to go to WD's website to download the full manual. Cables aren't included either, so add buying HDMI and ethernet cables to your list. Once I had everything plugged in, the WDTV instantly saw all my network shared folders, and bam — all of my content was aggregated in one place.
You can set the WDTV to automatically sync with attached USB storage and even remotely shared network folders, for easy aggregation of your flicks and tunes. If you have a large collection of videos and music (guilty!), you'll fill up the 1-tearabyte internal hard drive pretty quickly. But you can plug in a USB drive for more capacity, and it easily streams from any local network source too, so your storage options are essentially unlimited.
One not-so-small criticism is that the WDTV makes you choose your media source before browsing, instead of indexing everything in one central place. So, you've got to pick between the built-in hard drive, attached USB storage and any network devices with shared folders. Can't remember where you saved that folder of party pictures? You're out of luck, especially because the search feature doesn't scan across multiple devices.
It's not a dealbreaker, but it would be icing on the cake if you could browse and search all media in one central location, regardless of where it's stored. To slightly offset the search limitations, you can add music and movies to a queue as well as set favorites, so they're easily found again.
Compared to the WDTV Live Plus we reviewed back in October, the WDTV Live Hub is a massive step forward. The boxy chassis has been upgraded to a slimmer, better-looking box.
And while it takes a while to begin streaming, WD seems to have addressed video-stuttering issues with better caching, at least I didn't notice any, using a hard-wired ethernet connection. Local network streams were very quick to start, but online Netflix streams took a good 20 seconds to begin.
After watching dozens of videos, overall playback quality was razor sharp, with true-to-life motion and sparkling audio fidelity. As always however, video quality is still largely dependent on the speed of your local network and internet connections, as well as how the file was encoded in the first place.
The remote has gotten an upgrade as well, with some customizable shortcut buttons, 0–9 alphanumeric keypad, and even a mute button. It's actually a pretty good remote compared to the quality of most "included in the box" remotes. As a side note, you can also connect a USB keyboard to make typing in searches easier. I even got my wireless keyboard to work.
Unfortunately, if you want to cut your cable bill, this WDTV Live box can't quite do it. It does serve up a handful of the better online services: Netflix, Youtube, Blockbuster, Live 365 radio, Pandora and Mediafly.
However, you're out of luck if you like Hulu, and many of the better Mediafly channels are audio-only. For now at least, there is a massive gap between all the content available on cable, what you can view on a PC web browser, and what you're limited to on a media streamer.
The WDTV Live Hub will keep you entertained as long as you're aware of its limitations, but I'm probably asking too much from a pretty simple box. If you're looking for something more robust, build or buy a home theater PC.
For the rest of us, the WDTV Live Hub bridges the gaps among computer, TV and internet — and does it well. It kicks tail if you've already got a large media collection, and while it won't actually tidy up your digital clutter, it will at least motivate you to organize your media. At least it did in my case.
And if it can save me from digital-entertainment ennui, it can certainly save you.
See Also:
- Logitech's Google TV: Brilliant Concept Hampered by Networks
- Battle of the Boxes: Apple TV vs. Western Digital and Seagate
- Sweet Set-Top Box Transforms Your Mac Into a DVR
- For Apple's New Stream Machine, Jobs Giveth, Jobs Taketh Away
When you buy something using the retail links in our product reviews, we earn a small affiliate commission. Read more about how this works.Go Back to Top. Skip To: Start of Article.


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Trinity Episcopal Church, 81 Elm St., Concord, recently announced the Rev. Nancy J. Hagner will begin her ministry as the church's new rector Oct. 1.
Hagner comes to Concord from Trinity Episcopal Church in Princeton, New Jersey, where she served as associate rector. Nancy has extensive experience working with children, youth and adults in fostering their spiritual growth. She enjoys helping people identify their gifts and nurturing both individual and small group ministries.
Hagner also has experience in the banking and nonprofit development fields. A graduate of Wellesley College, she joins several family members living in the Boston area.
For information about service times and other events, visit trinityconcord.org.


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Bantams strike back for Bees replay
Bradford City earned an FA Cup second-round replay as they recorded a 1-1 draw against League One opponents Brentford and extended their unbeaten run of cup matches to eight in three competitions.
The Bantams went behind in the 42nd minute when Brentford's leading scorer Clayton Donaldson gave the visitors the lead against his home town club after a moment of misfortune by debutant defender Curtis Good.
Paul Hayes and Adam Forshaw were involved in the build-up down the right and, when the Australian-born youngster - on loan from Newcastle United - made a challenge, the ball ran free to Donaldson, who fired low into the far corner of the net to give the away side a 1-0 half-time lead.
Donaldson almost scored a second goal after 52 minutes when he turned left-back James Meredith in the box only to see goalkeeper Matt Duke save his goal-bound shot.
Bradford manager Phil Parkinson made three substitutions in the 60th minute, bringing on leading scorer Nahki Wells, Gary Jones and Will Atkinson and they put new life into the home side, who scored a deserved equaliser after 70 minutes.
The Bees' defence failed to clear Atkinson's cross and when debutant Blair Turgott, on loan from West Ham, saw his shot rebound from a defender, James Hanson fired in the rebound from 10 yards.
Then, Wells almost won the match for the Bantams 10 minutes later but he was denied by the post.
Source: DSG
Source: DSG


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|Gilminuial is a concept which has only appeared in an adaptation of the works of J.R.R. Tolkien.
The Gilminuial is a ship of the Rangers of the North under the command of Aranhir. The ships sails up and down the Baranduin to provide many much-needed suplies for the Wardens of Annúminas during their fights with the Angmarim and Tomb-robbers.[1] In T.A. 3018 they were beset by a storm. The ship was grounded and their supplies were lost, though the player recovered several of their supplies.[1] The crew were washed away, several at Evendim and some near Buckland. All members of the crew survived the ravage; with the aid of the player all members were found, and started to repair the Gilminuial.[1]
[edit] Crew members
- Aranhir, captain
- Argirion, fist mate
- Mindambeth, quartermaster
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar, The Tale of the Shipwrecked Mariners


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Jenny Simpson to defend world title Thursday in 1,500 meters at world champs
Colorado track and field fans will be closely following results Thursday at the track and field world championships in Moscow, where Denver's David Oliver won the 110-meter hurdles on Monday.
CU grad Jenny Simpson has made it through qualifying rounds and will defend her world title in the finals of the 1,500 meters. That race will be significant to American track fans for another reason: High school phenom Mary Cain of Bronxville, N.Y., 17, also made it to the finals. She is the youngest woman to make the finals of that event at a world championships.
The race will be run at 9:20 p.m. Moscow time, which is 11:20 a.m. in Denver.


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Positive. Confident. Quiet Mind. Raging Passion.
Coach and Consultant
AG Multisport Coaching & Consulting is Triathlon-Specific Coaching Firm. AG Multisport works with individuals as well as corporate groups looking for individualized training programs and instruction. Current Consulting Clients include groups such as CNN FitNation (2013 Head Coach & Athletic Director) and Atlanta Triathlon Club.
Pro Triathlete
April Gellatly is a Professional Triathlete with multiple Top 5 Iron-distance career finishes. She is a young talent rising through the ranks with her eye on qualifying for Ironman World Championships in 2014. With a background in collegiate swimming, an aptitude for cycling, and progressive run results, the best days are in front of her.


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Special Direct Page Link: www.TheUntoldStoryOfCayleeMarieAnthony.com
After exposing the various myths surrounding the chloroform, duct tape, decomposition and the "31 Days of Partying" – here's my own personal theory on what I believe happened to Caylee Marie Anthony on that fateful day of June 16th 2008, together with the various roles different people played… and of course the chain of events (i.e. The cover up) that unfolded after that.
I'll start by stating the obvious here – and that is by saying that a lot has already been written about Casey – and her alleged murder of her own daughter. It's BS. It's been BS right from day 1, and should never have even been tried as a capital murder case. Even to this day, the BS is still flowing freely because a lot of people WANT TO BELIEVE that "CASEY DID IT".
But at the end of the day, the jury delivered the right and proper verdict of Not Guilty.
Thankfully their verdict decision wasn't based on emotion, supposition, media bias or "public feelings" either. They couldn't come to any other verdict based on the evidence (or rather lack of) and the cold hard facts that came out throughout the trial.
The shoddy & disjointed prosecution, as expected, failed to prove ANYTHING during the trial – aside from their own blatant incompetence. All they came up with was lies, fantasy forensics and junk science.
The fact is, Casey had nothing whatsoever to do with the death of her daughter. To still believe she did is like believing the moon is made of green cheese. It ain't.
The thing is – right from day 1, nobody ever stopped to consider for one moment that Casey Anthony DIDN'T murder her daughter. Oh no… everything right out of the gate was deliberately and unceremoniously geared up to frame Casey. There were no other options.
Law Enforcement (LE) had it in for her. They never even looked at anyone else – instead they went out of their way to fit Casey up as a murderer – headed up by that corrupt piece of pure filth called Yuri Melich.
Here's what he told Casey @ Universal:
"You're painting yourself as a very bad person. Your family's gonna suffer for this. Your friends are gonna suffer for this. And remember what I told you about all these people coming? They're gonna crucify you for this."
— Yuri Melich interviewing Casey @ Universal, July 17th 2008
LE kept up this shameful behavior from July 17th right through the entire trial, and even after the trial.
They never perceived an accident. They only saw a murder. They only saw Casey as the murderer and (in typical LE style) they went out of their way to try and make that fallacy stick.
So, the first question is:
Was Caylee Anthony murdered?
I would say YES.
So what happened to Caylee? How did she lose her life? What happened immediately after that event? Why didn't anyone call 911? How did Caylee's body end up in the woods off Suburban Drive? Who put her body there? Why did it take so long to find the remains? What happened during the 31 days? What was Casey's involvement? – and what role did George, Cindy & Lee play?
All of these questions (and more) I'll attempt to answer in this post.
Let's get the real story started.
"The Accident":
Here's my theory on what happened:
On the morning of June 16th 2008, between (6am-8am), George is in bed, and Caylee (having just woken and found her mom still sleeping and Cindy already left for work) she goes on her usual early morning walkabout – this time finishing up into bed with George. Nothing out of the ordinary with that in itself – but we're dealing with George Anthony here.
I'm not going into specifics now, but within a few minutes of Caylee climbing into his bed, he starts abusing her like he's done many times before (and just like he's done with Casey since she was 8 years old). Only on this occasion, for reasons only he knows, he gets a little too excited and forceful.
Caylee is screaming out by this time, so in an effort to keep her quiet (and not wake Casey up) he pushes her face into the pillow and carries on oblivious.
After "doing his thing" with Caylee for a while longer, he suddenly notices Caylee has stopped breathing. She's suffocated.
Now – had Caylee really drowned in the pool and had George NOT been abusing her that same morning, I firmly believe a 911 call would have been made… and there's a possibility Caylee may have survived, and this whole unfortunate incident would have been finished with way back in June 2008.
But you see… THAT couldn't happen.
George, not being able to keep his damn hands to himself with either Casey OR Caylee well & truly took that option out of the equation.
Bear with me here.
So, right after Caylee suffocated (in my theory of events)… right at that precise moment in time… George had 2 clear options open to him, but very little time to decide.
His 2 options were as follows:
Option #1: George CALLS 911 to try and SAVE his granddaughter, while at the same time knowing only too well that his molestation will be discovered, and he'll therefore be duly ostracized by the local community, finish up in prison, and get to spend the rest of his days on the sex offenders register – BUT Caylee lives.
Option #2: George DOES NOT call 911 – he decides that Option #1 isn't so appealing after all – so instead he decides to SAVE HIS OWN SORRY ASS by carrying Caylee outside and slipping her into the pool, therefore making it LOOK like an accident OR an event caused by someone else's negligence. In this option, unfortunately, Caylee dies.
I believe George went for Option #2.
Remember: This is only my own personal theory of events. I was obviously not there at the time… but nevertheless I believe Caylee tragically died while being molested by George Anthony. (Note: as Caylee's death occurred during the commission of a felony (i.e. while GA was sexually abusing her), that's classed as Murder (rather than aggravated manslaughter), regardless of the perpetrator's intent).
The "Discovery" of Caylee's Body:
Straight after George has put Caylee in the pool, he heads straight back to bed like nothing happened.
At some point within the next couple of hours, Casey wakes up – but there's no sign of Caylee.
She goes into George's bedroom, wakes him up and asks him "Where's Caylee?"
"How should I know? I thought she was with YOU!" he yells back at her. Even at this early stage he's already distanced himself from having anything whatsoever to do with Caylee's death.
At this point they both decide to start frantically searching the house and garden, front and back and everywhere in-between. Shortly after that, George finds Caylee in the pool.
He shouts Casey.
She comes rushing out of the house and into the back garden. There she sees George… stood there… holding a lifeless Caylee in his arms.
Just like a good actor, George has proved he can turn the waterworks on whenever he needs to (just like during the trial) – and he does that now.
Casey goes hysterical as you'd expect.
"Oh my God! Call 911!" she yells (or words to that effect).
But George is having none of it.
He fights back his crocodile tears and tells Casey: "NO! NO! It's too late for that. It's too late! She's drowned! She's gone!"
What he really means is: "No, I can't… because if they come they'll find out I've been abusing her!" –– but he obviously doesn't say that.
This is where George Anthony is in his element.
At the very moment Casey needs SUPPORT from her father, he takes the opposite route – the selfish uncaring old bastard that he is.
"Look what you've done!" he yells at Casey. "Look what you've done! This is ALL YOUR FAULT for NOT BEING THERE for Caylee… for not watching her! YOU CAUSED THIS! YOU LET THIS HAPPEN! Oh my God, you have no fucking idea! Your mother will NEVER FORGIVE YOU for doing this, and you're gonna GO TO JAIL FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE FOR CHILD NEGLECT!"
And with that, George Anthony's big cover up (the "Immaculate Deception") begins.
They go back into the house, with George still holding Caylee… and George (more or less) REPEATS again everything he's just yelled at Casey. But this time he finishes off by telling Casey – "BUT I CAN HELP YOU. I CAN HELP YOU GET THROUGH THIS – BUT YOU HAVE TO DO EXACTLY AS I SAY, OK?"
Casey (still hysterical at this point) asks him, as best she can:
"Ok. So what do we do next?"
George tells her: "You do nothing. Just go out… stay away for a few weeks… act as normal as you can… act like nothing happened… tell anyone that asks about Caylee that she's with friends or with a nanny or something… I will handle this… TRUST ME… I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING… YOU GOTTA TRUST ME ON THIS, OK? Just DON'T let me down here because you KNOW what'll happen if you do!"
This is when "Zanny the Nanny" comes into the equation. It also explains Casey's behavior during the next 31 days, as she followed George's instructions to the letter and apparently DID carry on regardless of everything, like nothing had happened. Now you know why.
Ultimately, George will recall (when questioned) that the last time he saw Caylee alive was when she left the house with Casey @ 12:50 pm that day – June 16th 2008. He'll also recall, with military precision, exactly what Caylee (and Casey) was wearing – even though when initially questioned by LE on August 4th, he stated he last saw Caylee alive on June 6th 2008. Ahem.
He may have been right about the time, but that's when Casey left the house alone.
The Big Cover-up Begins (The "31 Days"):
Shortly after Casey leaves the house, George has some serious plotting & scheming to do. He's ex-Law Enforcement, remember, so that's never gonna be a problem for him.
George's next step is to hide Caylee's body. The last thing he wants is Cindy (or anyone else) turning up unexpectedly and rumbling his plans.
Next he decides to dress Caylee. He fumbles around in her room and grabs the first lot of clothes he can find, and ends up dressing Caylee in a t-shirt and the wrong size pants ("24 months", Caylee is nearly 3). After that he wraps Caylee's body in the well documented blanket, canvas bag (from the garage) & black trash bags, and finishes the job off by sticking the bag down with his infamous Henkel-brand duct tape. Just the same as he's done for years after the family pets have died. The contents are different but the procedure is the same.
He then hides Caylee's body in her playhouse (out in the back yard) while he cooks up the next stage of his plan. That plan has one objective – to keep HIM in the clear and implicate Casey. Various storage options were open to him (freezer, garage etc), but I'm going with this option as it could also explain the possible human scent the cadaver dogs picked up in the Anthony's back garden on while they were there in July.
This also goes some way to explaining the impromptu "landscaping project" that was hurriedly started on June 30th 2008. This is where George & Cindy suddenly decided to dig up & redo the backyard area of their home with new pavers & concrete. Was that a coincidence?
Moving on…
At around 1.30pm, George, so as not to attract any suspicion, sets off to his 2nd day at work at Lexus. He tries calling Casey (to check on her) just after 3pm but her phone is engaged.
That same evening, George returns home where Cindy is waiting, She of course asks about Casey & Caylee, and George tells her "all is well" and that they've "gone away" for a few days.
Fast forward a couple of days and Cindy is now starting to get suspicious of things, and suspicious of George's general shifty demeanor. She can tell something is wrong but doesn't know what. She also relays to George that it looks like someone has been swimming in their pool over the past day or 2.
Now, having had a few extra days to think about things, and under further pressure from Cindy – George decides to tell Cindy what happened a few mornings back on June 16th – although he conveniently & purposefully fails to mention what happened prior to Caylee being found in the pool (i.e. the molestation).
Cindy is devastated by the news. She goes berserk. We know she can be a bad tempered bitch at the best of times, but this is the last straw.
George tells Cindy it was an accident… and when he & Casey woke up that morning, Caylee was missing, the sliding patio doors were open and he found Caylee floating in the pool.
It's then that Cindy realizes she could be to blame for leaving the pool ladder up the night before.
In the verbal (and physical) battle that ensues, George takes this opportunity to fuel Cindy's guilt by telling her that SHE left the ladder up… SHE forgot to lock the patio door before SHE left for work… and that SHE should have woken him up before she left.
"Don't start blaming me for all this you bastard!" she yells.
"Well WHO ELSE is there to blame?" George replies sarcastically.
You gotta hand it to George. He never misses out on an opportunity to blame someone else whenever he can – even at a time like this when he knew only too well EXACTLY what had happened and EXACTLY what HE had done.
Cindy also quickly comes to terms with the fact that it's now WAY TOO LATE to report anything to anyone because of the time that's already passed. It's been over 2 days now since "the accident". Reporting it is just not an option. Both George & Cindy know they can't report the accident, but for very different reasons.
She asks George about what they should do next. He then tells Cindy they have to dispose of the body. It's also at this point that George tells her he's already got Caylee hidden in the playhouse and that they need to act fast.
Cindy is still grief stricken at this point as things have rapidly gone from bad to even worse – and she knows she's now too far involved in this cover up to back out. She has no alternative but to go along with it – and with Capt. George at the helm of the ship.
He also tries to calm Cindy by telling her about how he plans to have CASEY take the blame for everything that's happened – and that's why he sent her off to "carry on as normal" for a few weeks.
Cindy goes along with this as it'll also put her in the clear with regards to her having not secured the pool ladder. In other words, if George's "Masterplan" works – and if he can pull it off – then it'll put her AND George in the clear. So what the hell – she's all for it.
George knows (from his Law Enforcement days) that all they need do is "hold out" for 3 or 4 weeks, because under summer conditions in Florida the remains would only take around 2 weeks to skeletonize — by which time all the evidence will have gone (in theory) and Casey will be the only one in the frame for Caylee's death – maybe even for Caylee's murder.
He'll say he saw them both leave the house together on June 16th and that was the last time he saw little Caylee alive. He figures that based on them leaving together… Casey's apparent "carefree" activities during those few weeks… and with Caylee's remains being discovered so close to home… the vast majority of people are quickly gonna point the finger at Casey for the murder of her own daughter – then George & Cindy can play the role of grieving grandparents and milk that for all it's worth.
To George, it sounds like the perfect plan IF he can pull it all off.
With the way he's planning on disposing of Caylee – and the location – George assumed that it wouldn't take very long at all for the remains to be found… maybe a month or so maximum. He obviously never factored Roy Kronk into that equation (but we'll come to that bit shortly).
But first things first…
The Disposal of Caylee's Body:
That evening – probably June 18th 2008 – George took Caylee out of the playhouse and put Caylee in the trunk of HIS car (The same trunk LE found & seized a handgun on September 6th 2008). This is why the "human decomposition" in Casey's Sunfire trunk NEVER EXISTED. The "smell" in the trunk was due to the pizza box & associated rotting contents – again as specifically highlighted during the trial by Jose Baez. Caylee was never in the trunk of Casey's car at any time. Period. How could she have been?
So… with Caylee on the trunk, George then drives the short distance up Hopespring Drive, before turning on to Suburban Drive and parking up. He then dumps Caylee's body in the woods before heading back home.
He specifically placed the body there (instead of burying it), so in theory the body would be found. There are of course many ways George could have disposed of Caylee's body so it would never have been found, but he chose this option instead so it would be found and to insure that Casey would ultimately take all the blame.
The unmistakable smell of BULLSHIT:
I don't think George was "holding out" for a 31 day period specifically. It just happened that way. More to the point I think Cindy had basically had enough by July 15th and they BOTH decided this would be a really good time to put the next piece of the Masterplan into effect – that being throwing Casey under the bus and shopping her to Law Enforcement.
July 15th 2008:
This is the day George & Cindy finally decide to get their fat asses down to the tow yard to pick up Casey's Pontiac Sunfire. After all, they've had the official notice letter for 4 days and the car has been sat there for the best part of a week (after Casey had abandoned it at Amscot over 2 weeks earlier).
It's also at this time that the smell of trash & rotting pizza makes an appearance – hence "the unmistakable smell of human decomposition" that George spoke of to Simon Birch (the tow yard guy). More like "the unmistakable smell of BULLSHIT from George Anthony" if you ask me.
If you want to know THE REAL REASON for the smell in the Pontiac trunk – and how Law Enforcement intentionally dried it out to destroy the evidence – let Jose Baez explain it to you here – from his Opening Statements, May 24 2011:
Defense Opening Statements - May 24th 2011 - Part 6
George also thought, just before opening the trunk that Casey and/or Caylee could be in there. That was a strange thought to have really, seeing as he'd packed Casey off month earlier and put Caylee's body in the woods a few days after that.
Anyways, after settling up with the tow yard guy, George drives off "to work" with the car still reeking. He doesn't call Law Enforcement… and he doesn't try calling Casey to see if she's ok either.
That same afternoon after coming home from work – and after duly "Febreze-ing" the Pontiac to get rid of the smell (and at the same time leaving traces of chloroform in there), Cindy calls 911 to report her daughter for stealing her car. Not exactly grand theft auto by any means.
Later that evening, Cindy has Amy Huizenga take her to where Casey is staying and brings her back home to Hopespring Drive. Under the intense grilling that followed, Casey tells Cindy she's not seen Caylee for the past 31 days. (This is the story George has told her to stick to – and she is doing).
In the next 911 call, an overly-hysterical Cindy tells the operator her granddaughter has been missing for a month and plays the decomp-card again by saying: "It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!" Cindy basically does all she can to implicate Casey and insure they come out to arrest her (which they do the next day, July 16th 2008).
Again, this is all part of the plan.
George is present during this call. Cindy turns and yells at him: "Casey says Zanny took the baby a month ago! The baby's missing!" –– but there's dead silence. George doesn't say a word.
This was also picked up on by Jose Baez during the trial (see the video a few paragraphs above @ the 12:00 mark).
And WHY does George stay silent?
Here's what Jose Baez said:
"He (George) doesn't say a word… and that's because he knows where's she's at. He knows what happened (to Caylee). This is no surprise – but he will distance himself from it, and in fact in one sworn statement he says he wasn't even there when Cindy called 911. 'I was at work. I didn't have any part of this. I'm just George. Just your average grandfather. Casey's the wild one. Casey's the one with all the stories!'
He's saying this while he's with his mistress who's paying him money and he's pretending he's working. Cindy thought he was working. But you're only here about Casey's fake job – not about George's fake job."
It's during this same 911 call that Casey finally realizes that she has been offered up as the lamb to the slaughter. She knows she has nobody to prove her story. She's up the proverbial creek with no sign of a paddle.
She now knows that her father, who back on June 16th 2008 – while he stood there in their back yard with Caylee lifeless in his arms – and who said he'd protect her, has now betrayed her.
We all know what happened half an hour after this call. The 3 year circus started.
Just as an interesting side note to Cindy's amazing acting skills during those calls – this is a 41 second clip from WESH.com They're just about to go to one of their reporters outside the Anthony's home, when Cindy strolls over to the reporter – writing pad in hand. When asked about the recordings of the 911 calls just being released, Cindy nonchalantly replies:
"Oh, I'm not worried about the 911 calls. I made em'!" and brushes the question aside. She even sounds like she's practiced reeling that answer off.
Here's the video:
Cindy Anthony Explains Panicked_911 Calls
Only 8 days previous she was supposedly hysterical. Like I say, amazing acting skills.
George Anthony – "Business As Usual":
Throughout the months that follow, and even though George Anthony was fully aware of everything that had happened, HE had to keep flying the flag for Caylee… setting up Command Centers… doing paid-TV interviews… churning out new "Help Find Caylee" T-shirts, flyers, wristbands & badges… starting FUNDS for Caylee… making everyone keep believing Caylee was still alive and/or missing… that she was still "out there". When all the time HE DAMN WELL KNEW she was out there.
Caylee was out there in a bag in the woods off Suburban Drive where he'd dumped her months previously.
Even with his numerous & well publicized jailhouse video visits with Casey, did you notice how he always made a point of reminding Casey that she was "the boss"… the she was "in charge"… like she was the "CEO" of her own company? Remember that? Well, that was his way of telling her to keep on doing what she's been doing, i.e. to stick to THE PLAN he told her to stick to, and not to be intimidated.
At this point, let me back track a little to the one part of the equation that George Anthony never factored in. Roy Kronk.
Cometh The Hour – Cometh The Kronk:
This is the dim meter reader guy that spotted Caylee's skull back on August 11th 2008, while randomly urinating in the bushes. It's the same guy that came back to the exact same spot numerous times after that (even when he wasn't working) to urinate and see the skull again.
On one occasion he also mentioned his findings to a few workmates, who subsequently showed more interest in a nearby dead snake.
Here where I think Roy Kronk fits into all this:
The first 3 times Roy reported what he'd seen (August 11th, 12th & 13th 2008) I believe were genuine calls – even though the 911 operators could not have sounded any less interested.
It was probably after the 3rd call that Roy became aware of the $255,000 Caylee Reward money that was on offer. I mean – can you imagine the morally bankrupt Roy Kronk sat there at home – broke & disillusioned – while at the same time visualizing $255,000 in his bank account? I certainly can. And all he had to do to manifest that was FIND the remains. The remains that he'd already found!
This is why Roy decided he'd keep his discovery to himself for a while. Maybe he thought if he was reported as "the guy that found Caylee's remains", he could become a prime suspect in the case. This also explains his reluctance to call Crimeline.
Furthermore, it would explain why Roy Kronk kept a very low profile throughout September, October and November. Only to resurface again after he found the remains in December.
It was when nobody followed up on Roy's 3 initial calls that he concocted his plan. He physically MOVED the remains to a "safe place" AT LEAST TWICE so he could go back there at some convenient later date.
Think about it for a second. Anyone driving past that exact spot on Suburban Drive and seeing a meter reader guy in the woods (with a trash bag) wouldn't have thought anything of it. The area was one huge dump-it site. I think this is how Roy Kronk managed to move the remains while he hatched his big reward plan.
By the time early November came around, Roy was starting to get a bit twitchy – but he'd kept quiet for too long and had to spill the good news to someone. He bestowed that honor on his son, Brandon Sparks (who also happened to be the only one of his children that would talk to him):
Here's what happened:
November 2008: Roy Kronk calls Brandon Sparks and tells him; "I found Caylee's remains. Watch for me on TV cos' I'm gonna be rich & famous!" (This is 1 month before Caylee's remains were discovered).
Then on December 11th 2008: After "the big discovery", Roy asks Law Enforcement: "Will my ex-wife find out about the reward if I get it?"… "Do I still get the reward even though she's dead?" and "Roy's gotta eat too!" Same day, he tells his Boss (at the scene): "Alex, I just won the lottery!"
Those comments speak volumes about Roy Kronk's actions (and inactions) during the previous 4 months leading up to December 11th 2008.
Not forgetting the time Roy met up with Sgt. Richard Cain who couldn't see anything, slipped, cursed Roy out, and promptly left. He was later fired. Tim Miller, LE & 32 Texas Equusearch Volunteers also allegedly searched this same area in early September 2008 and found nothing. Deputy Jason Forgey (and his cadaver dog) did the same at different times too. Zilch.
By all accounts, the reason nobody could find Caylee's body (in the same spot it was "found" by Roy Kronk on December 11th 2008) was probably down to the strange but true fact that it simply was not there when they searched.
Here's a segment from FOX News featuring Judge Napolitano. This aired on the day "the remains" were found, but they had not yet been identified as Caylee's – hence the continual "bag of bones" references. Here, Judge Napolitano covers the highly probable movement of the remains prior to their ultimate discovery:
judge napolitano - search for caylee Dec-11-08
I also believe George indirectly arranged his own search for Caylee's remains, by giving James Hoover & Dominic Casey a false tip. George was getting worried due to the fact that so many people had searched that area and found nothing. That was NOT part of his plan.
This explains James & Dominic's well documented & video-taped 2 day search on Suburban Drive on November 15th and 16th 2008 — following up on George's false tip/lead, which led them straight to the exact spot where the remains should have been found – but weren't.
On the 2ND day of the search, James Hoover actually parked his car on Suburban Drive just a few car lengths past the end of the red privacy fence, right opposite the exact spot where ONE MONTH LATER Roy Kronk would find Caylee's remains, 15-20 feet into the woods.
Are you starting to see how all of this is now beginning to fall into place? I hope so.
In finishing off this Kronk-related section, let's also take these facts into account:
- After his "discovery", the OCSO asked Roy to "keep quiet" and hired him a lawyer.
- Roy Kronk (unlike his Son, Brandon) refused to allow a search of his phone records.
- Roy Kronk's PC was never confiscated or examined.
- Roy Kronk was never investigated.
Should we not find those 4 facts strange? Can you even start to imagine what OCSO would have found if they'd searched his phone records, examined his PC and investigated him further? You can bet your bottom dollar that a search of his PC alone would have made any other Google search findings pale into insignificance.
Could that have been the very reason they DIDN'T fully investigate him? Maybe they agreed that "deal" with him, in return for him not spilling the beans on their inaction in relation to his 3 previous calls in August 2008? Maybe we'll never know, but it's possible.
If you want to see both Roy Kronk testimonies (opens in a new window), here are the links: Roy Kronk Testimony #1 – Roy Kronk Testimony #2
Here's Part 1 of Brandon Sparks' trial testimony from June 29th 2011:
Brandon Sparks, June 29th 2011, part 1
To see his testimony in full (opens in a new window), click here.
Sadly for Roy, all his months of plotting & scheming were to no avail. He even blew any chance of getting the usual $5k reward due to him calling his Supervisor instead of directly calling the Crimeline – although he did make up for it by the payments he received from all his TV show appearances after the event, by talking about dead snakes and skulls.
I'm not saying Roy Kronk was involved in the death of Caylee Anthony for one moment (I covered that event earlier), but I DO believe he played a pivotal role in the events & shenanigans that unfolded afterwards.
Chloroform & Duct Tape Revisited:
So how does this theory of mine fit in to my earlier posts in this series, regarding the chloroform & duct tape for example?
Well, all that still stands.
Chloroform – Never existed as alleged. Never proven to have been used by anyone. Certainly never used as a "murder weapon".
Duct tape – Also never used as a "murder weapon" but found at the scene, due to George using the tape to SEAL the bag that held Caylee's remains. How he thought the duct tape would never be traced back to him I have no idea – seeing as he was not only using it to stick flyers up, but also did a TV interview (@ Publix) with the roll of duct tape clearly visible in a tray in one of his "Command Center" stations.
Here's a clip from George Anthony's 6th trial testimony (June 30th 2011:
The first minute of the video (no sound) shows George in his "Command Center" at his local Publix, together with his roll of duct tape. Watch also how he tries to intimidate Jose Baez as he struts right up to him and past him on his way to the witness stand @ 1:42. Testimony starts @ 2:07.
George Anthony (6th T.), June 30th 2011
Straight away George is on the defensive, denying any knowledge of where he was during the video he just saw OR whether or not the duct tape in his possession in the video was actually his. From 5:00 onwards there's a side bar – and JB's questioning resumes at the 8:00 mark. This is where JB starts to tie in the way George used to bury the family's pets by using a blanket, trash bags and Henkel-brand duct tape, to the way he also disposed of Caylee's body using the very same items.
The Trial – Opening Statements:
I believe the Opening Statements Jose Baez made at the trial were reasonably accurate… although I do NOT believe it was 'an accident that snowballed out of control" — as George put it to his secret sex-partner & mistress (at the time) Krystal Holloway.
Jose also highlighted Casey's lying and denial fueled by the after effects of George's molestation…. and the "31 days" where Casey followed George's instructions and carried on like nothing ever happened. He forced her into a corner – just like he'd done (in the literal sense) many times before while he molested her.
He made her believe she'd "go to jail for a very long time" for child neglect, i.e. for "letting it happen" and for "not being there" for Caylee and "letting her drown".
Like I said earlier – had anyone called 911 after the event, George's time would have been well & truly up. I don't think too many people would be impressed by a grandfather serially abusing, molesting and murdering his toddler granddaughter, do you?
George also knew for a fact that he wouldn't last 5 minutes in prison, what with being a child molester AND being ex-Law Enforcement. OMG. What a combination! One could only hope (in that scenario) that the pain George would have suffered while being knocked senseless in prison every day would have been FAR GREATER than the pain little Caylee felt while she was being abused & suffocated by George on the morning of June 16th 2008.
By the way – I know I'm certainly not on my own when it comes to my theory on George Anthony's involvement & BIG COVER-UP of Caylee's death.
Below is a segment from "On the Record" w/Greta Van Susteren (aired mid-July), where Greta interviewed The Foreman from Casey's trial, aka "Juror #11".
It's interesting to hear again exactly what The Foreman (and the rest of the Jury members) actually thought about George Anthony… including his selective memory… the infamous gas can testimonies… his endless cover ups… his tow yard performance… their suspicions of him being the murderer… and his overall demeanor throughout the trial. To see the 4-part interview in full, click here.
Casey Anthony Trial Juror Speaks Out, On The Record Fox News, Part 2
When this first aired I think way too many people were still way too hung up on the Verdict – and they weren't particularly bothered about anything else… but since then, there's certainly been what you could call an upsurge of interest in the role George Anthony actually played throughout this whole tragic story.
What Was Cindy's Role During This Time?
I believe Cindy knew all along what'd happened to Caylee – but she nevertheless decided to go along with George's Masterplan to save both their asses. Cindy also knew about George's years of molestation of Casey but she chose not to do a damn thing about it. She was in denial – big time.
Whether she knew of George's molestation of Caylee I have no idea. What role or knowledge of events Lee had in all of this, again, I have no idea on that either.
But put basically, George AND Cindy literally rode roughshod over Casey – just like she never existed.
For example:
- Trying to lay claim to Caylee's bedspread, doll, toys, blankets and many other items – none of which are legally theirs to claim.
- Their attempted trade-marking of "Caylee Anthony" and "Justice for Caylee") – to be used on T-shirts, promo items and underwear.
- Their cremation of Caylee's remains, specifically against Casey's wishes.
Read my earlier post for further details – "The Battle For Caylee Anthony" (opens in a new window).
Following on from the abuse issues I just mentioned, let me now elaborate a little further on the subject:
The Abuse:
As for the abuse Casey suffered – this is something many people have been very quick to dismiss and label as a lie. Not so. I believe Casey was a victim of abuse by her father.
All the classic indicators of abuse are there:
- Dysfunctional Family
- Incessant Lying
- Enmeshment
- Secrets
- Inability to Form Close Relationships
- Anger and Rage
- Promiscuity
- Coming Forward in Bits and Pieces
- Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and Other Mental Illness
- Preoccupation with Self
For a detailed explanation of all the above points, click here to read the article by Linda M. Fossen – "Why I Believe Casey Anthony Was Sexually Abused".
Also take into account that it very rare that molestation within a family becomes public knowledge. Current estimates say around 1 in 4 children is molested. Most times, the molester is a friend or family member.
This is why it's so odd that some people are crying out for "proof" and "evidence" of Casey's molestation. I do not know what evidence they're looking for. I can tell you now that most victims remain silent. They don't go screaming to the neighbors about it because they are afraid and ashamed. And the molester is certainly not gonna hold their hands up & admit it.
So before anyone starts insisting that Casey has "no evidence of molestation" – go look up some statistics and do a little research to find out what you should be looking for. Even Casey's grade school teacher stated there were signs of sexual abuse, and that if anyone looks at Casey's school records they would see that it's true. As for Casey's telling Jesse Grund about her brother Lee molesting her, we'll that's certainly another possibility.
Here's forensic psychiatrist Dr Keith Ablow's overall perspective on George Anthony's attempted suicide hoax and his serial molestation of his (then) 8 year old daughter, Casey:
Is George Anthony Hiding Something with Dr Keith Ablow
And here's Dr Keith Ablow again, commenting on Casey's behavior during the "31 days":
Dr Keith Ablow\'s Theory on Casey Anthony\'s 31 days behavior
Also remember that Casey mentioned to several friends about the abuse long before this tragedy unfolded, so it wasn't just "made up" for her defense. The statements weren't allowed into the trial because they were considered hearsay.
Pat McKenna:
Do you remember Pat McKenna? Maybe not. This particular brief interview was never really widely covered by the media, as it didn't "fit in" with their ongoing witch-hunt style coverage of the case.
Pat was the lead investigator (defense side) in the OJ Simpson trial – and he got a phone call from Casey's defense team on the day Caylee Anthony's remains were found, December 11th 2008.
Having not followed the press reports and knowing very little about the case, Pat's first move was a visit to the Anthony house where he met George and Cindy, and spent time in the bedroom Casey and Caylee shared.
Here's what he had to say:
"The room was a shrine of pictures to Caylee, hundreds of loving photographs. I was stunned by the neatness and organization of the room and all the photos. It was this lovely room, like a young kid that has a baby she loves. It was the opposite of what was being portrayed in the media…"
But his first impressions of George and Cindy Anthony were not as favorable…
"I walked out of that house and thought to myself, 'I don't think this kid committed first degree murder. There is something really disturbing about this family. I was shocked by their lack of emotion. There was no sense of loss or despondency. Their granddaughter's remains had just been found and they're sitting around booking television interviews and talking about how much money their foundation is making."
He also says George and Cindy Anthony were not cooperative with him at first, even though he was there to help their daughter.
He went on to say:
"George was bizarre. He would go around and around for hours and he wouldn't answer a question directly. And he is a former detective, so he knows the drill. There was something off with this guy. After I read the discovery and George's interviews, I thought, "This guy is way too eager to throw his daughter under the bus."
His theory of what happened to Caylee Anthony mirrors Jose Baez's court defense of Casey Anthony.
Pat finished off by saying this:
"It was an accident that spun out of control and George disposed of the body, but I can't say exactly how. If Casey wanted to be free, she would have dropped Caylee in the pool, called 911 and been a grieving mother."
To read Pat McKenna's full interview with ABC News, click here.
In this penultimate section, let's now take a look at one avenue which Cindy Anthony might be exploring in an attempt to finally get the TRUTH out about what really happened on June 16th 2008, and the role George played.
"The Roula & Ryan Show":
Back on July 6th 2011, Cindy's Anthony's 2nd cousin Dana McCain called into a Houston Texas radio show – 104.1 KRBE ("The Roula & Ryan Show"). She stated Cindy is already planning to write & release a book, within which she'll explain how the defense claims about George Anthony in the opening statements are true.
During the call Dana states how they had a conference call with Cindy's side of the family, where specific details were discussed confirming George's participation – just as the Defense claimed.
Listen to the call in full below:
Dana Radio Interview 7-6 2011.
In the call, Dana states:
"It sounds like just ridiculous that she [Casey] was found not guilty. I promise it will all come out, and yes, she did some things wrong… there were major mistakes made, but it will play itself out… it… it was a true verdict."
Dana is asked: "Do you think Casey killed Caylee?"
Dana: "…The entire family expected a guilty verdict. Only after a conference call with our entire family last night about 11 o'clock, where we found out things that, err, we've all been asking this entire time, since they got up there and changed the entire story… so yes, before last night I would say absolutely, it was a travesty that the verdict was not guilty – till last night."
Dana is asked: You think he [George] may have had something to do with it?
Dana: "The story that you heard, that was presented by Jose Baez, was absolutely what happened… and, umm… I'm speaking for our side of the family… and that's only because of the call that we received and the proof that we received last night…"
Click here for further info and to read additional excerpts from Dana's call.
I know I've gone around the houses a little in this post, but I had little choice with there being so much to cover and so many direct & indirectly related players and events.
So in closing, let me say this:
There is ONE PERSON and ONE PERSON ONLY that orchestrated this whole event which resulted in the unfortunate death of Caylee Anthony. Without his perverted intervention, Caylee might still be alive today.
That person is George Anthony.
This is why he testified AGAINST HIS OWN DAUGHTER in her murder trial. He basically decided it'd be in his best interests to let Caylee die (on the morning of June 16th 2008) in order to save his own ass.
Now, how that translates into a death sentence for Casey I will never know. If anyone reading this far still cannot see that George is some seriously creepy guy who has clearly been lying from the start – then maybe they should let him babysit their little girls. Yeah, right.
The guy that was so guilt-ridden over his role in Caylee's death and cover up – and the serial molesting of his own daughter and granddaughter – that he pulled his famous failed suicide attempt. But not before calling family & friends… sending text messages, and writing a 5-page BS letter to go with it. That was one month after Caylee's remains were found – all to try and gain pity for himself and his situation as the "grieving grandfather". Bollocks.
And who could forget the truly priceless looks on George and Cindy's faces straight after the Not Guilty verdict was announced. They were well & truly pissed off. Why? Because they WANTED Casey to be found guilty of murdering Caylee. That was all part of their Masterplan. That would finally put them in the clear. They KNEW right at that point that attention would soon turn to them and their very own can of worms would at some stage be opened.
Spot the difference?
Personally, and as you might have already guessed, I cannot wait for the REAL truth to come out about what really happened to Caylee on that fateful day of June 16th 2008 – and the instrumental role George played in it all.
That could also be the same day George Anthony starts writing his 2nd suicide note. We shall see. I'm not into hating and I do not wish harm on him (or anyone else for that matter) – but everything happens for a reason. This is not over yet by a long, long way.
Remember the quote right at the start of this post from our resident piece of filth Yuri Melich?
Well, those very words he said to Casey @ Universal may well come back to haunt George Anthony, because if this case ever gets reopened, and George gets his sorry ass hauled in by Law Enforcement, here's what they're gonna tell him:
"You're painting yourself as a very bad person. Your family's gonna suffer for this. Your friends are gonna suffer for this. And remember what I told you about all these people coming? They're gonna crucify you for this."
— Law Enforcement to George Anthony, (Date Unknown).
So folks – that just about wraps up my own personal theory on the events and aftermath of June 16th 2008. It is only my personal theory of course – but let me be the first to say this right here & now: If Casey's own story ever does get turned into a book or movie – as it may well do at some point – then the story itself may not be an exact mirror image of my theory… but it'll be darn close to it.
After all that, if there's anyone out there that still wants to keep believing that Casey Anthony is guilty, and that she murdered Caylee with duct tape & chloroform before dumping her in the woods — then there really is no hope for you. All you can do is carry on thinking that… carry on hating… carry on drinking Jeff Ashton's urine from your very own BS-encrusted chalice of denial – and good luck to you.
Your last 3 years worth of anger and vitriol was all for nothing, and you have nobody to blame for that but yourself. How do you feel now?
As Jose Baez stated during and right after the trial:
"Casey did not kill Caylee"
That still holds firm, and it always will.
PS. Message to Casey: If you're reading this… always remember, you ARE awesome. Never let anyone tell you any different. No person or power in the outside world can compare to the power you have within you. You have a lot of supporters out here. Stay strong. Keep on believing… and keep the faith.
Support Casey --- Let the Waters Rise video
PPS. George Anthony: if you're reading this – and I sure hope you will at some point – I ask you to do the decent thing here. Give it up. Quit bullshitting. Quit blaming Casey for everything you did. Quit playing games. Quit profiting from Caylee Anthony. Hand yourself in to LE. Confess to what you actually did on June 16th and afterwards. Take your punishment like a man. More importantly, CLEAR YOUR OWN DAUGHTERS NAME so she can at least TRY to get her life back. You took Caylee's life, for GOD'S SAKE DO NOT TAKE CASEY'S LIFE TOO – you lying piece of trash and no good worthless turd of a father (and grandfather).
UPDATE: During the writing this post, I also posted a report from Geraldo Rivera in relation to George & Cindy's Dr Phil interview. In this interview Cindy apparently attempts to attribute Casey's "mental health problems" and Grand Mal Seizures as being the reason Caylee drowned in the "pool accident". She obviously thinks everyone is stupid. Even at this stage neither of them are willing to clear Casey's name OR (more importantly) admit to what really happened. Instead they come up with even more lies & BS. I can't say I'm surprised in the least. But if there's anyone's mental health that needs investigating, it should be George & Cindy's.
I'll leave you with these words, which probably sum up Casey's current position quite nicely…
Thought I couldn't breathe without you, (I'm inhalin'),
You thought I couldn't see without you, (Perfect vision),
You thought I couldn't last without ya, (But I'm lastin'),
You thought that I would die without ya, (But I'm livin'),
Thought that I would fail without ya, (But I'm on top),
Thought it would be over by now, (But it won't stop),
Thought that I would self-destruct, (But I'm still here),
Even in my years to come, (I'm still gon' be here.)…
I'm a survivor…….
[c] SJ & CaseyAnthonyIsInnocent.com – All rights reserved.
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The MPCA has identified 13 stream sites in the watershed to characterize watershed water quality. This project will supplement and complement the identification of the top 50 sites in the watershed that are contributing to water impairment and also help in identification of priority watersheds in the re-write of the watershed comprehensive plan. Water samples and field measurements will be collected at each monitoring location ranging from baseline events to high flow events.
The AgBMP Loan Program provides needed funding for local implementation of clean water practices at an extremely low cost, is unique in its structure, and is not duplicated by any other source of funding. The AgBMP loan program provides 3% loans through local lenders to farmers, rural landowners, and agriculture supply businesses. Funds are used for proven practices that prevent non-point source water pollution or solve existing water quality problems.
Peer Engineering, Inc. (Peer) will evaluate and recommend to MPCA groundwater monitoring staff prospective sites/locations for the installation of groundwater monitoring wells to evaluate contaminant/pollutant concentrations from various sources. Peer will oversee the installation of monitoring wells by retaining a state drilling contractor or preparing bid documents to retain well driller through the Department of Administration. Superfund staff will assist in the project by providing oversight of contractual requirements and provide technical assistance as needed.
This project will identify and compile existing nitrate data from groundwaters and surface waters in the Lower Mississippi Basin (LMB) generally and focus on the Root River Watershed. The purpose is to investigate the quantity and quality of existing nitrate data, and to organize it for use in comprehensive watershed strategy development (including assessment, TMDL computation and identification and study of nitrate sources and delivery mechanisms).
This project will build network and the skill set of local resource professionals to do effective civic engagement work for water restoration and protection in Southeast Minnesota. The cohort will be administered through the Southeast Minnesota Water Resources Board (SE MN WRB) which is an area wide Joint Powers Board (JPB) established to help improve and protect the water resources of the area through coordinating local water planning efforts. This JPB has successfully administered water quality grants in the past that have positively impacted the water resources of this region.
This project will construct, calibrate, and validate an HSPF watershed model for the Zumbro River watershed. The consultant will produce HSPF watershed models that can readily be used to provide information to support conventional parameter Total Maximum Daily Load (TMDLs). The consultant will clearly demonstrate that the models generate predicted output timeseries for hydrology, sediment, nutrients, and dissolved oxygen that are consistent with available sets of observed data.
This project will complete an implementation plan, as required by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, for the Zumbro River turbidity TMDL project. It will also revise the Zumbro River Watershed Management Plan (completed 2007) to ensure it continues to reflect local needs, incorporates new information, and develops more effective linkages with related local, state and federal government programs.
This project supports monitoring and assessment activities by MPCA EAO staff and includes lab analysis, equipment, fieldwork, data management, and interpretation expenses associated with monitoring and assessment activities.The ambient groundwater monitoring network describes the current condition and trends in Minnesota's groundwater quality.
This project supports monitoring and assessment activities by MPCA EAO staff and includes lab analysis, equipment, and fieldwork expenses associated with monitoring and assessment activities within the described priority watersheds.
Lake Monitoring: Lakes are monitored for nutrients, clarity and other information to provide the data needed to assess the aquatic recreation use support.
Within an 11-county area in southeastern Minnesota, two Nutrient Management Specialists will work directly with producers to reduce nitrogen, phosphorus, and fecal coliform runoff into surface and ground water in the region and the Mississippi River. The specialists will help producers create or revise nutrient management plans, implement Best Management Practices for manure and fertilizer use, and set up on-farm demonstration projects to support farmer-to-farmer learning.
Approximately 70 percent of all Minnesotans rely on groundwater as their primary source of drinking water. Wells used for drinking water must be properly sealed when removed from service to protect both public health and Minnesota's invaluable groundwater resources. The Minnesota Department of Health protects both public health and groundwater by assuring the proper sealing of unused wells.
Clean Water funds are being provided to well owners as a 50% cost-share assistance for sealing unused public water-supply wells.
The purpose of this project is to provide a new shared position in southeast Minnesota which will accelerate the adoption of soil health practices by leveraging the existing efforts of the National Resources Conservation Service and other organizations.
The lack of sewage treatment in many small communities in Southeast Minnesota is causing surface water and groundwater pollution. Ten of these small communities will be the target of the technical assistance provided by this project. These communities have community or individual straight pipes which are discharging raw sewage directly into the environment, surfacing sewage, or have sewage contaminating groundwater.
The lack of sewage treatment in many small communities in Southeast Minnesota is causing surface water and groundwater pollution. Fourteen of these small communities will receive technical assistance provided by this project. These communities have community or individual straight pipes which are discharging raw sewage directly to the environment, surfacing sewage, or have sewage contaminating groundwater.
The goal of this project is to investigate nitrate transport and the sources of nitrate in karst for more effective implementation of best management practices that will reduce nitrate concentrations in ground and surface water.
The Zumbro River Watershed is a major watershed in the Lower Mississippi River basin in SE Minnesota. It includes parts of six counties, covering 910,291 acres. This project will assess all 13 stream reaches in the Zumbro River Watershed to determine if they are meeting their designated uses. The monitoring will entail collecting water chemistry and field parameters.


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Preserving our collection
Our holdings, estimated at more than 40 million items, occupy almost 380,000 metres of shelf space. Our records consist of paper-based files, audiovisual and digital records, bound volumes, photographs, maps and plans, microforms and other objects.
The Archives has two main preservation strategies. The first is to provide appropriate long-term storage for all record formats, including those born-digital. This strategy slows deterioration of physical records and gives us time to manage preservation activities. The digital archive uses two independent storage networks to minimise the possibility of data loss.
The second strategy is to target the records and formats that are actively deteriorating or known to be at risk. Records considered at risk are those that are chemically unstable, in poor condition or regularly accessed.
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